DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 6th February, 2009

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the Business it will consider next week.

Mr Speaker, on Tuesday, 10th February, 2009, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the general policy debate on the Motion of Supply on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for 2009.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 11th February, 2009, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply of the 2009 Budget.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 12th February, 2009, the Business of the House will commence with questions if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply of this year’s Budget.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 13th February, 2009, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour, the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply of the 2009 Budget.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

REVENUE COLLECTED FROM UNPROCESSED ORES FROM 2007 TO 2008

84. Mr Simuusa (Nchanga) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning how much revenue was collected as export duty from the following unprocessed ores in 2007 and 2008:
               (a)  copper;

(b) zinc; and

(c) aluminium.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, a total of K179,257,161,318.00 was collected as export duty on copper ore concentrates in 2008. However, no export duty was collected in 2007 as this tax was only introduced in 2008. Similarly, no revenue regarding export duty was collected on zinc and aluminium because currently there is no duty on these products.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that this duty was collected on concentrates, meaning that there was no duty collected on unprocessed ores exported from the country. I would like the hon. Minister to tell me what measures the Government has put in place to gain more money from these ores which are being exported without being processed.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the policy is to have export tax only on concentrates. The issue of collecting export duty on unprocessed materials is still being considered.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

GOVERNMENT’S PLANS OVER HOUSES AND OFFICES AT MANO ROAD CAMP IN BAHATI

85. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Works and Supply what plans the Ministry had for the houses and offices formerly occupied by the Roads Department at Mano Roads Camp in Bahati Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, all assets that belonged to the defunct Roads Department were transferred and handed over to the Road Development Agency (RDA) by the Ministry of Works and Supply in 2006.

The RDA intends to rent out the offices and residential houses to the public or private sector upon valuation of the structures by the Valuation Department under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. 
Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the ten houses in question are now being vandalised because RDA does not seem to show any care for them? Is there any possibility that the ministry can influence RDA to surrender those houses to the Ministry of Education which desires accommodation for its staff?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, the RDA has a programme of wanting to expand its operations. However, due to constraints, their budget has not been able to support this expansion. According to the law, RDA is only allowed to receive 10 per cent of the ministry’s budget. The 10 per cent has proved inadequate because they have been employing specialised staff.

Mr Speaker, we will do everything we can to ensure that there is no more vandalism on the site and we hope that the local council can be allowed to work on the houses and offices.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to inform this House what plans they have for the abandoned Roads Department sites in provinces. In my constituency, there is one site at Mwenda, where nothing is happening.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, since acquiring new equipment, we have created a new rural division which is supposed to handle equipment within the provinces. It is, therefore, important that we use those structures for the purpose of operationalising the new equipment. As you may be aware, in the past, we had road side camps which proved very useful in the maintenance of road infrastructure. We hope that we can revert back to that so that we do not have to wait for contractors to come from Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

EXPANSION AND REHABILITATION OF MANSA AIRPORT

86. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when the Ministry would expand and rehabilitate Mansa Airport in order to increase air traffic.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, my ministry’s plans of expanding Mansa Airport which are in three phases, began in 2008. The first phase which commenced on 2nd April 2008 and is near completion, involved the construction of an air traffic control tower. The next phase involves construction of a terminal building. Under the third phase, plans are to expand the run way from the current 1.7 kilometers to 3 kilometers.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the expansion of the terminal. However, I have another important concern which I want the minister to clarify on. When is the ministry going to begin the expansion of the runway?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti) (on behalf of the Minister of Communications and Transport (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member’s concern is appreciated. The hon. Member must also take into consideration the point that currently Mansa Airport does not have sufficient aircraft to warrant the immediate expansion of the run way.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NUMBER OF RETIRED IMMIGRATION OFFICERS FROM 2002 TO 2008

87. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many officers retired from the Department of Immigration from 2002 to 2008; and

(b) when the last recruitment exercise for immigration officers was undertaken.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr D. Phiri): Mr Speaker, fifty one immigration officers retired from 2002 to 2008.

Mr Speaker, the last recruitment of immigration officers was undertaken in 2001. Eighty-four recruits underwent training from August 2001 to December, 2001 at Lilayi Police Training College. Additionally, the Ministry of Home Affairs intends to recruit 100 immigration officers this year who will be deployed country wide. The House may wish to know that currently, Chilubi is patrolled by officers from Mansa, Nsumbu and Kaputa.

Sir, the construction and rehabilitation of infrastructure is an on going programme by my ministry. This year, the ministry plans to construct border posts at Kamapanda in North Western Province, Kilwa Island in Luapula, Kambimba in North Western, Namafulo in Southern Province, Sindamisale in Eastern Province, Kanyala in Northern Province and Imusho in Western Province.

Mr Speaker, the ministry is rehabilitating some border posts which include Lusuntha in Eastern Province.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, since there has been an acute shortage of staff in the Immigration Department, when does the ministry intend to carry out another recruitment exercise?

The Minister of Home Affair (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, just a few minutes ago, my Deputy Minister told the House that this year we are recruiting 100 immigration officers who will be deployed nation wide. We want to continue with that exercise so that between this year and 2011, we would have recruited all the 850 members of staff that are needed by the department.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether those who were retired have been paid their pension or they are still struggling to get their money. If they have not been paid, are they still getting their salaries whilst waiting for their pension?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the information that I have is that all those that were retired were paid their money, but I have to check the records in my ministry to confirm. If they have not, we will find out the reason why they were all retired between 2002 and 2008 without preparing for the payment of their terminal benefits. I will try and check on that. I will let the hon. Member know what exactly transpired.

 I thank you, sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, part of the problem the ministry has in retaining immigration officers who work together side by side with customs officers employed by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) is that there is a very huge difference in conditions that the two groups of employees enjoy especially those in border post areas. The offices for ZRA officers are air conditioned and the furniture is good whereas those for immigration officers are in an extremely bad state. How far has the ministry gone in trying to clear these discrepancies so that the immigration officers are also seen to be working for the Government? After all, though the customs officers work for ….…

Mr Speaker: Can the Minister of Home Affairs respond to that question.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I wish to acknowledge the existence of the discrepancies that hon. Member has referred to. The policy is now to standardise the facilities in which ZRA and customs officials work in.Chirundu is a case in point were this process has taken place. At Chirundu the two separate departments have been integrated. The immigration and ZRA officers are working in the same environment and sharing the same facilities. This is what we want to replicate all over the country. We are currently doing the same at Kasumba Lesa Border Post as a follow up to what was done at the Chirundu facility. Then, we will spread it nation wide.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the hon. Minister…

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker:  A point of order is raised. I hope this is procedural because we have work which needs to be done. What is your point of order?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I do not normally rise on a points of order unless, the situation as I view it, is extremely volatile.

Sir, I got a call at 0300 hours in the morning from my constituency in which I was told that there were long queues at shoprite where the people of Mazabuka District are waiting to receive the staple food, meal meal which is out of stock in the entire province.

Mr Speaker, following that call, I read an article in today’s edition of The Post under the headline “Choma Milling Company suspends production.”

Mr Speaker, the situation is volatile in the Mazabuka District. To support my claim, I will quote the article in part:

“Choma Milling Company has with immediate effect suspended production creating a serious shortage of meal mealie in Choma and its surrounding districts.

Company managing director Jon Mackatos who confirmed the development to ZANIS in Choma said the plant had stopped operating on Wednesday due to lack of maize. Mr Mackatos said the milling company had only received 400 tonnes of maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) after signing a contract which had an agreement involving 7,000 metric tonnes.”

Mr Speaker, in my view, the situation appears extremely volatile and posses a danger to the peace in our country. The same article also says that in Kitwe the same problem is actually prevalent where people were in queues as early as 0400hrs this morning. It is therefore, my imagination that this matter is uniform country wide. Is this Government in order to remain silent without giving the people of Zambia the exact position on the food shortage in the country? I require your serious ruling.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The point of order from the hon. Member of Mazabuka is not procedural. However, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives is required to look into this matter and report progress to the House through a ministerial statement as soon as he can.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs why the ministry has not been recruiting officers despite not having enough members of staff in its various departments.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, between 2002 and 2006 there was a recruitment freeze in the civil service. No one was recruited during that period.

In 2007, we tried to recruit but our efforts were frustrated by resource constraints and so we did not. The next year we tried, but the exercise was frustrated by the same reasons. This year, 2009, we are determined to move decisively. We hope to recruit staff so that by 2011, we have a full establishment. Our full strength is 850 officers nationwide.

I thank you, Sir.

SEMINARS FOR PROSPECTIVE BEE-KEEPERS IN CHILUBI

88. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources when the Government would conduct seminars for prospective bee-keepers in Chilubi District.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Mwangala): Mr Speaker, seminars for prospective bee-keepers in Chilubi District will be conducted as soon as funds that have been provided in the 2009 Budget under the Poverty Reduction Programme (PRP) for Northern Province are released. The House may wish to note that, this is an on going programme. For instance, in 2008, two groups were trained in Bulilo and Chisupa wards. As for 2009, seminars will be conducted in Matimba and Matipa areas. The above locations were chosen specifically for their good bee foliage which is dominated by Mibombo Forests.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, how much money was spent on the seminars that were conducted in the two wards indicated?

Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for that follow up question although it is a new one.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Quality!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Next question.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Wapusuka!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

ANNUAL MAIZE PRODUCTION RATE AT LUMINU FARM BLOCK FROM 2005 TO 2007

89. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) what was the annual maize production rate at Luminu Farm Block for the   
             Disabled in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency from 2005 to 2007, 
             year by year; and

(b) whether the Government had any plans to assist the above farm block  
                            improve its maize yields.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, the annual maize production rate at Luminu Farm Block for the disabled in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency for the past three years was as follows:

Year/Farming Season Maize Production Output

2004/2005 50 bags x 50 kg
2005/2006 300 bags x 50 kg
2006/2007 450 bags of 50kg

Sir, the Government has plans to assist Luminu Farm Block improve its operations, by rehabilitating the infrastructure at the centre. This work will be done in a number of phases. With regards to improving maize yields, the Government will improve the water supply to Luminu Farm Block for irrigation purposes. An increase in maize yields will also contribute to the food security in the area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the production for the 2006/2007 season was 450 bags of maize, approximately, raising about K15 million. If you compare the total salaries that the workers get and the income they make from the farming block’s produce, you will find that they spend more than the money they bring in. What is the Government doing to ensure that production is improved?

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, we have already stated that the Government is going to improve irrigation at the farming block.

However, we also have the Programme for Luapula Agricultural Rural Development (PLARD) actively working with the Luminu Farm Block to improve its production.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, according to the figures that the hon. Minister gave us, the production rate rose from 250 bags of maize in the 2004/2005 season to 450 bags of maize in the 2006/2007 season, Could the hon. Minister relate this to the number of people on the ground who are doing the actual work? I think that the Luminu Farm Block has about 100 workers. If 100 workers are producing 450 bags of maize in a year, are they being productive?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, Luminu Farm Block is under the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) which is working hard to scale down its employees. However, I have already stated that there is a programme in Luapula which is working with the Luminu Farm Block to improve its production.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, the question I wanted to ask has been asked by Hon. Mukanga.

PROCUREMENT OF A SUBMERSIBLE PUMP FOR MWENDA RURAL HEALTH CENTRE IN CHIPILI

90. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Health when the Government would procure a submersible pump for Mwenda Rural Health Centre in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Akakandelwa): Mr Speaker, there are no immediate plans to procure a submersible pump for Mwenda Rural Health Centre because it has a borehole  fitted with a hand pump which is functioning well.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, is it proper for the medical personnel at Mwenda Rural Health Centre to draw water from outside the centre? If that is proper, can you inform this House?

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, I know his desire would be to see tap water running in the health centre. However, that is a future plan. As for now, we are providing clean water at the heatlh facility through the borehole.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO BENEFITED FROM THE MONENI EYE PROGRAMME

91. Mr D Mwila asked the Minister of Health:

(a) how many people benefited from the Moneni Eye Programme which was initiated and sponsored by  Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) on the Copperbelt Province;

(b) which districts did the beneficiaries at (a) above come from;

(c) how long the programme ran;

(d) how much money KCM spent on the programme; and

(e) whether KCM intended to extend the programme to other provinces.

Mr Akakendelwa: Mr Speaker, a total of three thousand and seventeen clients were screened with different eye conditions for free. On the spot treatment was administered and one hundred and seventy-one cataract surgeries were conducted. The clients from the Copperbelt came from Chililabombwe, Chingola, Lufwanyama and Kitwe while other clients came from Kasama and Nampundwe.

Mr Speaker, the programme was for eight days from 23rd June, 2008 to 30th June, 2008. Approximately K700,000 was spent and there are no further plans for a similar programme at present.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D Mwila: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for that answer. Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he has tried to write to KCM management to find out whether they are ready to continue with the same programme so that even we from Luapula will be able to benefit.

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, Moneni was a programme sponsored by KCM as part of their social responsibility programme. If it would be desirable for KCM to extend the programme to other provinces, it shall be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he has approached other companies like Mopani Mine to do the same.

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, the Moneni Programme was initiated by KCM as part of their social responsibility programme. It is a good suggestion for you to lobby that we approach Mopani Mine but at the end of the day, it will be them to decide whether they can undertake the programme or not.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

BAHATI AGRICULTURAL PROJECTS

92. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives:

(a)    how many farmers in Bahati Parliamentary Constituency had benefited from the following:

(i) Cattle-restocking exercise;

(ii) Irrigation funds for small-scale farmers;

(iii) Fertiliser Support Programme(FSP) for small-scale 
                      farmers; and

(iv) Programme for Luapula Agricultural Rural Development 
               (PLARD); and

(b) whether the above projects have improved the economic well-being of the people of Luapula, in general, and Bahati Parliamentary Constituency, in particular.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives (Mr Mulonga): Mr Speaker, on the cattle restocking programme, no farmer in Bahati Constituency has benefited because exercise was only undertaken in the Southern and Central provinces. In the Southern Province it was undertaken following the reduction in cattle population due to the corridor disease that had hit the area.

Mr Speaker, the programme was designed to try and mitigate the negative impact of the deep rooted problems on the cattle population in Southern Province. The other province that has been covered by the programme so far is Central Province.

Mr Speaker, on irrigation funds for small scale farmers, I would like to say that no farmer in Bahati Parliamentary Constituency has benefited because the ministry has no irrigation funds specifically for small scale farmers in that Constituency. Irrigation projects are demand driven and the ministry, therefore, normally responds on demand for assistance to implement small scale irrigation projects by the beneficiaries.

Mr Speaker, on the FSP for small scale farmers, I would like to say that this programme has supported a total of 2,685 small scale farmers during the period between the 2002/2003 and 2008/2009 farming seasons. This translates into 954 metric tons of fertiliser having been distributed to farmers in Bahati Parliamentary Constituency during the said period.

Mr Speaker, on PLARD, I have to say that from the 2006 to 2007 and 2008 to 2009 agricultural seasons, a total of 282 farmers have benefited from PLARD’s activities through the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives and the Mansa District Farmers Association.

Mr Speaker, the FSP for small scale farmers has enhanced the economic well-being of the people of Luapula Province in general and the Bahati Parliamentary Constituency in particular through increased access to cheaper fertilised and hybrid maize seed. For calculation purposes we shall take an average yield of three metric tons per hectare. The 2,685 hectares land under cultivation over the seven year period translates into about 158,000 x 100 by 50kg bags of maize. Taking the average FRA price of K38,000 per 50kg bag, we can calculate that the approximate income that was earned was about K6 billion for Bahati Parliamentary Constituency alone.

Mr Speaker, local transporters have also greatly benefited from the transportation of fertiliser and seed. As for the PLARD, it helped farmers with seeds of various crops, such as beans, groundnuts and cassava. Livestock farmers have had their capacity built through training in small-scale livestock management and development. Some livestock farmers will this year 2009 receive an improved breed of goats from Southern Province.

Mr Speaker, the PLARD is also assisting Mansa District Farmers Association with the construction of a bulk centre in Mansa District’s Senama Compound this year. Farmers in Bahati will, therefore, have a facility for bulk and safe storage of their produce. Now farmers in Luapula Province in general and Bahati in particular have and will continue to benefit from PLARD activities through the multiplier effect.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, I am very happy that the hon. Minister has admitted that the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives has done very little to graduate farmers in Bahati Constituency, from subsistence to medium income farmers by denying them irrigation schemes. Can the hon. Minister confirm to this House that he will continue to perpetuate the denial of vital agricultural facilities to the people of Bahati Constituency, in particular, even though the President and his Government are saying agriculture should replace mining as the mainstay of the economy of Zambia.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, it is not that government has failed to provide irrigation facilities to the people of Bahati Constituency. What I said is that irrigation is demand driven. Government is ready to help only those who are capable and are willing engage in agriculture that involves irrigation. This year, there is K6.3 billion in the budget for irrigation. So, if farmers in Bahati Constituency are able to engage in farming that involves irrigation, I implore them to start this process of engaging government so that they can also benefit from this irrigation fund.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, in his reply the hon. Minister has indicated that there has been some support given to Southern and Central provinces. Why has Western Province been excluded when it has also lost the same number of animals with Southern Province? This problem has been going on despite several assurances made to this House that it will be attended to.

The Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, we are very much aware of the cattle diseases in Western Province. Therefore, looking at the severity of the diseases, to start restocking before tackling the causes of the diseases there, would be a futile exercise. So, the emphasis is that although, tackling of cattle diseases was done at the same time in Southern and Western provinces, much more effort was needed in the west before farmers in that area would start benefiting from the restocking exercise. This is because it does not make economic sense to restock in areas where we have not managed to control the animal diseases yet.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Minister regarding irrigation, were he has advised the Member of Parliament for Bahati to apply for funding, since we are operating under a cash budget, I want to find out what is in the Budget for this exercise. There are specific areas where small irrigation schemes can easily work. Is the hon. Minister now saying that he will vary allocations depending on the size of irrigation scheme required for a particular area?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the programmes indeed can be varied depending on the circumstances that are prevailing at that particular time.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives, what his definition of the word cattle restocking is. Is defining the word cattle restocking giving six female heifers to 72 headmen at a ratio of 1 to 12, meaning that by integration, the 72nd headman will only receive his share of that one heifer in 27 years long after his independence. What is the correct definition of cattle restocking by this Government?

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I think the definition of cattle restocking, simply means to replace. You can replace everything either at once or you can replace the given items progressively. This exercise should not be left to Government alone, others can compliment our efforts.

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: They should not entirely wait upon Government for the cattle restocking to take place. I am sure even hon. Members of Parliament like the one for Namwala have the ability to assist Government in the area of wealth creation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, in responding to one of the supplementary questions, the hon. Minister stated that Government will not restock in Western Province until they have sorted out the route cause of the cattle diseases in the area. That answer has been given ever since I came into this House, year in, year out. Could the hon. Minister now state when the Government is going to embark on programmes to fight the cattle diseases and when he thinks those diseases shall be no more in Western Province so that the programme for restocking can then start.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in this year’s budget, it can be seen that there have been concerted efforts made to strengthen the Livestock Department. The first step has been to provide funds for a Minister responsible for livestock, who is going to see to it that the resources for that sector are used properly. I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena can see our commitment fight cattle diseases by just looking the amount of resources that have been allocated to the livestock sector. I hope there will be overwhelming support for that budget line.

I thank you, Sir.

ELECTRIFICATION OF SANTA MARIA RURAL HEALTH CENTRE IN CHILUBI

93. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when the Government will provide power to Santa Maria Rural Health Centre in Chilubi District under the Rural Electrification Programme.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Chibombamilimo): Mr Speaker, the ministry is currently undertaking an assessment to determine the cost of electrifying the centre. Once the costs are established, the ministry will be in position to know when the rural health centre will be electrified.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker, I would like to add that we are, in fact, lucky that the rural electrification programme has been allocated K88.8 billion compared to the K26 billion which it was given last year. To me this is a gigantic step in enabling the Ministry of Energy and Water Development undertake this project.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker,

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious procedural point of order. Is the hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development in order to mislead this House that K26 billion was allocated to the rural electrification programme last year and yet, it was K20 billion? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Chilubi will conclude his supplementary question and when the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development replies, he will also deal with that point of order.

Hon. Member for Chilubi, you may continue.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, in 2001, when the project in question was abandoned by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO), the total cost was only K2 billion. I would like to learn from the hon. Minister how soon the assessment of the cost of the project in question will be carried out.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Konga): Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Chisala for that follow-up question. It is true that work had started on this project but due to a lack of resources and the ever escalating costs, it could not be completed. As a result, and as it has been stated earlier, a new assessment is currently being undertaken so that new costs to complete this project can be known. We can confirm to the hon. Member that this will be done as soon as possible.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development whether the Government is considering buying standby generator sets for health centres, particularly in rural districts, before power is connected to places like Chilubi.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. The responsibility of my ministry is to ensure that energy resources are available throughout the country. However, in a sector where the ministry responsible is not able to provide energy, like in the rural health centres, we collaborate with my colleagues from such sectors. So, I can confirm that though this is not going to be done by my ministry, the Ministry of Health has plans to procure generator sets to supply electricity to rural health centres where there is inadequate generation capacity.

In response to the point of order that was raised by the hon. Member for Chipili, I think he has misdirected himself, as a matter of fact, because the Yellow Book actually shows that the approved amount for rural electrification was in fact, K26 billion and not K20 as he has alleged.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when the Rural Electrification Master Plan is going to be made accessible to the hon. Members of Parliament and all stakeholders in Zambia.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question. The Rural Electrification Master Plan will be launched this year and soon after, it is going to be made available to all stakeholders.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I would like to guide generally without specifying. Hon. Members are watching or do watch the way people communicate on certain types of media. For instance, it could be television. If you want advertise on television, you will be observing the way certain producers of goods and services advertise in order to market your products and services better. There is an advert which is currently running on a local television station which goes something like this, of course, after receiving a poor or wrong product, and I quote:

“What did we told you to brought?”

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Back in the years, there was another famous or maybe infamous one, which went something like this, and I quote:

“Zoze are zoze …”

Laughter

Mr Speaker: “ … I am anaza”

You know, as we debate in this House, it is likely that some people would laugh at the way we use certain simple words. I believe we should find quiet time in our private way of doing things to assist one another to improve the way we express ourselves as we debate.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I listen to a number of very fluent and, if I may say, adept speakers of the official language we use in this House. I think they can assist us privately so that all of us may benefit not ‘bene fit’ …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … from their tutelage. So I will leave this matter where it is and we will come back to it at a later date.

___________

MOTION

BUDGET 2009

(Debate resumed)
                    
Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, I will attempt to avoid zoz are zoz and I am another.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You are out of order!

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I have always appreciated the good guidance and hard work of the Clerk in this august House for the past seven years that I have been in it.

Mr Speaker, may I congratulate you for a good job in guiding and producing good or maybe serious debaters in this House. Before I came to this seat, I used to sit at the far end where Hon. Dr Katema is seated and I enjoyed my debate from that angle where I constantly caught your eye.

Mr Speaker, may I now address issues to do with the Budget. I have gone through it very briefly. I will only concentrate on salient points worth the serious attention of this august House and not waffling by covering all the areas of the Budget. I will start with the energy sector.

Mr Speaker, to start with, I would like to congratulate President Bwezani Banda for having won the elections. UNPD accepted his winning.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, may I also congratulate Mr Haakainde Hichilema, mwana mubotu for being intelligent, pragmatic and for accepting the results of those elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Those are the future presidents of this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: May I also extend my thanks to the judiciary. I hope the amount of money the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has allocated to the judiciary will sustain their operations. I salute them for passing excellent judgment in prominent cases that have been pending in this country. Thank you for a job well-done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, when people are entrusted with responsibilities of looking after the national Treasury, they should not dip their fingers into the honey because it is not for the good of this country. Poverty is ruining this country.

Mr Speaker, it is the duty of any good parliamentarian to carry the burden of overseeing Government operations. Hon. Members of Parliament and Cabinet Ministers please, do not shun constructive criticism. Embrace constructive criticism because it is a cornerstone of democracy. We, in the Opposition provide constructive criticism. Kindly  pay attention to what we say.

Mr Speaker, may I congratulate a gallant son of Africa, the ZESCO Managing Director, Mr Sisala.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, when Mr Sisala became ZESCO Managing Director, there was a critical power shortage, but when he moved in, he made attempts to increase the energy that was being produced by the cooperation. Clearly seen as it is today, power outages are reducing. A man with a foresight has taken charge. I was one of those who kept criticising him. Fortunately he was able to take constructive criticism, and today, he is steering the ship in the right direction.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: There was a green horn directing and controlling ZESCO before Mr Sisala came into office. Before Mr Sisala’s tenure, there was a proposal that ZESCO should be sold out. Why sell ZESCO? ZESCO is a viable institution. It is the only strategic industry that this country has.

Mr Speaker, I am glad there is now hope in ZESCO, and I believe that the amount that the corporation has been allocated will ultimately lead to the production of 190 mega watts of power which may lead Zambia to have more than it actually needs.

Mr Speaker, while I am still on energy, may I find out why you have closed Maamba Collieries instead of privatising it? In this budget, as I am talking to you, there is a contractor called Oriental Quarries who has been given a one year contract to work on the mine. Before him, there was a contractor from South Africa who was on a contract of US$30,000 per month, he walked in and out and finally walked away without being prosecuted. Therefore, who was stealing that money?

At the moment, we have Oriental Quarries. When will you privatise Maamba Coal Mine? Tell us. There is Kandabwe Collieries in Sinazongwe which is closed, and managed by some Chinese people.

Major Chizhyuka: Everywhere!

Mr Muyanda: The Chinese have failed to run the coal mine and consequently Zambia has no energy. Tell us the framework. Where will we get the coal? The industries are starved of coal. Maamba used to produce an average of 8,000 metric tonnes of coal per month. I pioneered some work at that mine with the French and the British which saw the company reach the level where the late Imutowana managed to make it become one of the best mines in this country.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: However, you ruined it. From 1991, the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) started reducing its employment levels from 3000 to 2000. Up to now, Maamba is not operational. You have your own Chinese at Kandabwe. Although, the mine is closed down, the Chinese are carrying out illegal mining at that mine.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: A Mr Hardwell Waundika was injured last night from a closed mine. You can verify it. What type of Government is this? You go to the investors kneeling down. When you kneel down before an investor, you expose yourself. You must acquire negotiating skills. You are very competent men and women. You have the Hon. Vernon Mwaangas of yesterday. They are still vibrant. Use them well.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Use their experience. Those were and still are great men. We should not praise people posthumously. We need to praise them when they are still alive.
                                                                   
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, let me quickly look at agriculture. There is hunger prevailing in the Southern Province. This hunger has been caused by the MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Give me a very good reason why a person who lives along the river should starve? Why should a person who lives along the Kafue River to fail to irrigate his crop? People in Sinjembela and Sinazongwe are starving despite having fertile land because they cannot get the water out of river so as to irrigate their plants.

Mr Speaker, I proposed to this Government in 2002 that they should the growing of off-season maize. It was only done once and never again. Why are you failing to work? You are failing to work because you do not have a work plan.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: You are running a buccaneering management type of Government. When you are buccaneers, you are chancers. You rush to each point in the hope that you will solve a problem. For instance, you have said that you are going to bring some irrigation equipment in the country, but it will not be done this year. It is just another fairy tale. We are tired of listening to empty promises.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda:  Mr Speaker, my hope is that the MMD uses this year’s Budget to sweep poverty away from the streets of Lusaka, Kitwe, Ndola, Livingstone Choma and Chipata. Those vendors you see on the streets are a sign of a sick economy which has been mismanaged by MMD since 1991.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, agriculture can stop the trekking of unskilled labour into the squalors of Kanyama and other compounds located around major cities. Those vendors are doing nothing. An elderly woman sitting on the streets of Lusaka selling three tomatoes or four potatoes is not in serious business. Sweep away poverty by empowering our own indigenous people.

Mr Speaker, the answer is to go back to the land. Create incentives that will entice the people to go back to the land. Government needs to stimulate the growth of the economy by funding development in the rural areas which you exploited during the election time.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the Kafue Gorge and the Kariba North Bank.  In 1957, the people of Sinazongwe were displaced from the Lower Zambezi into the Hills. I was one of those people who were displaced to pave way for the creation of those facilities. However, out of 52 schools in Sinazongwe, only four have electricity. Where are you taking the electricity? Each Cabinet Minister who takes over the Ministry of Energy and Water Development rushes to take electricity to his or her village. The people of the valley are the ones who suffered and gave way to that machinery that produces that electricity which you are now enjoying have no power in their area. The people of Sinazongwe, Siavonga and Gwembe shed their blood for the sake of the electricity which you are now using.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda:  Mr Speaker, I would like to make a very straight forward point. There is a green horn at ZESCO. This man told me to write a letter in order to have one of the schools in my constituency access electricity. He is a misfit and a square peg in a round hole.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Muyanda:  Mr Speaker, this year under the rural electrification programme, Sinazongwe, Gwembe and Siavonga must be given priority. We lost our ancestral land, not for you people to enjoy alone, when our schools and clinics do not have electricity.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda:   Are you not shy? If it was not unparliamentary language, I was going to use the word ashamed.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: It is unparliamentary language.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda:  Mr Speaker, I would like to tell the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that there is no more time to mislead the rural voters. That time is gone.

Mr Speaker, one of your committees toured the Kafue Gorge and the Kariba North Bank. The Committee discovered that our country has the potential to expand electricity production and to even export power instead of lamenting on the shortage of power.

Mr Speaker, this Government ought to be serious by putting up a proper framework for bringing about development in rural areas. I will give an example. There was the Gwembe-Tonga project under the rural electrification scheme. There is K30 million in the Budget allocated to this project. Where are you going to take that K30 million when the project is already closed. It was closed at the time Hon. Mpombo was Minister of Energy and Water Development. He is fully aware of it. The Budget reflects K30 million towards this project. Where are you going to take this money?

Sir, misuse of public funds has been the tradition of this Government since 1991.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: They have to learn to stop it. Where will you take that money?

Mr Speaker, we toured the Kariba North Bank. There is potential to expand ZESCO.As part of the expansion programme, a tunnel has already been dug at Kariba North Bank.

Hon. Member: Aah!

Mr Muyanda: Yes, the tunnel is there and we toured it. It is a true story. Why are you failing to implement your own policies?

The message is that you have to sweep poverty out of the streets of Lusaka, Chingola and Kitwe. Stimulate growth by giving people resources which should move them from the streets so that they can make a new beginning in agriculture. It is the only way forward.

Mr Speaker, with these few words I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion.

Mr Speaker, I want to firstly emphasise on what some of my colleagues have talked about. 

Mr Speaker, we, on your left, are members of the Opposition and our job is to inform the Government about the problems our people are facing. 
    
   In 2007, the Government allocated K20.57 billion to the Rural Electrification Authority. Most of areas that were electrified where MMD strongholds. The areas where electrification was done are as follows:

(a) supply to Kayoshya and Moomba in Chibombo District, ( MMD);

(b) supply to Chipapa in Kafue District in Lusaka Province, (MMD),

(c) supply to Machiya in Mpongwe District in Copperbelt Province, (MMD);

(d) supply to Undi in Chipata District in Eastern Province, (MMD);

(e) supply to Mwense in Lundazi District in Eastern Province,( MMD);

(f) supply to Nseluka  School in Kasempa District,( MMD);

(g) supply to Ngoma and Lunchinze schools, Sikaneka Community Centre and the health centre in Sinazongwe District in Southern Province.

Mr Speaker, amongst the seven areas that I have mentioned, one grid extension project was given to Sinazongwe District. These are facts. It is not only in the above mentioned areas where people want electricity. Even the people of Luapula Province need it.
 
Interruptions

Mr D. Mwila: Sir, if hon. Members do not research, that is their problem. In 2008, the Rural Electrification Authority identified a total of eight grid extension projects for implementation. These include the following:

(a) supply to Shimukuyu/4ways in Chibombo District, Central Province where Hon. Shikapwasha comes from, (MMD);

(b) supply to Kaloko Trust in Masaiti District, (MMD);

(c) supply to Mahatma Ghandi School in Masaiti District, (MMD);

(d) supply to Mushili School in Masaiti District, (MMD);

(e) supply to Mulilansolo in Chinsali District in Northern Province;

(f) supply to Lingelenge School in Chavuma, North-Western Province, (MMD);

(g) supply to Kakomba School in Chavuma, (MMD); and

(h) establish of 66/11KV sub-station at Nseluka to complete the electrification of Kaimbwe started in 2006,  (MMD).

Mr Speaker, out of the above mentioned areas, only one was given to Chinsali District. I can lay this document on the Table…

Interruptions

Mr D. Mwila:…because the hon. Minister Energy and Water Development has never brought any annual work plan to this House. I was forced to ask him questions and he only gave me the information which I have just shared with the House. 

Sir, I have a problem with the way this Government is running the affairs of this country. When they give themselves projects, they think they will come back in 2011. People are now learned and they know what theyare supposed to do. In 2011, you have to go...

Hon. Government Members: Where?

Mr D. Mwila:…because people are tired of you because of your false promises.

Mr Musosha: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Musosha: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me a chance to raise a very serious point of order, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili who is on the Floor is misleading this House and the nation at large.  He is telling this House that the MMD Government and leadership under both the late and the current President are not fair in the distribution of wealth in this country. Therefore, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead this House when the old road going to Kawambwa passing through his constituency is under construction at a huge cost?

Sir, most of the structures in Chipili Constituencies have been electrified under this Government.  A few days ago, I was telling this House that so many boreholes and water wells have been sunk in Chipili Constituency. Chipili High School has been electrified and a new girl’s high school at Musonda Falls is being constructed in Chipili Constituency. Therefore, is the hon. Member in order to deceive this House and the nation? I need your serous ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing, through his point of order is in fact saying that the hon. Member for Chipili is being selective in his assessment of what the Executive is doing. He in short is saying, the hon. Member for Chipili must be impartial since according to the hon. Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing, the facts tell otherwise. Hon. Member for Chipili take that up.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I can put my head on a chopping table.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, on rural electrification, I will lay this document on the Table. I challenge the executive to write a letter to the prisons registrar so that I can be disciplined, if my facts are proved wrong. These are facts. Most of the people on your right are agreeing with me.

Interruptions

Mr D. Mwila: Yes, I will lay it on the Table. Are you telling me that it is only Chavuma District and Chibombo District that want electricity? In two years time, you are all going.

Interruptions

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, lastly, the document which I want to lay on the Table is the distribution of wealth by the Roads Development Agency (RDA). This is the document which shows that Luapula and Western province were the least funded. I can challenge you and I will go through this list:

(a) North-Western Province  K469 billion;

(b) Central Province   K397 billion;

(c) Western Province   K91 billion; and

(d) Luapula Province   K152 billion.

Mr  Speaker, what are you telling me? This Government must be serious when it comes to the distribution of wealth. Wealth must be distributed equally to all the provinces. If Hon. Musosha cannot support this, then he should move away from Luapula Province.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: I am saying so because we want serious people in that province. We want enough money in order to develop Luapula Province. You have a Provincial Minister for that province and how is he going to work if he does not have the money? That is common sense. You take him to Chibombo where there is money.

Mr Speaker, before I sit, I want to talk about the conditions of service for our civil servants such as the teachers and the nurses who get about K1 million per month. Is it that the Government is comfortable paying them this amount of money? It is disappointing because every year, we come to this House to approve a Budget which clearly shows that our Government employees will continue to suffer. I hope this year, this Government will improve the conditions of service for our civil servants in Zambia. It is surprising that up to now, no one is talking about when negotiations regarding an increment in the salaries of civil servants will begin. They are supposed to start in January and end in March. What is Hon. Liato doing as the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Services doing to ensure that the negotiations are concluded within three months?

Mr Speaker, it is important that all of us consider the Constituency Development Fund as a serious issue. It should be increased from K400 million to K1 billion. I want to emphasise what other hon. Members of Parliament are saying. If K1 billion will not be given, this Budget should not go through. We have the support from the people on your right.

Hon. Government Members: Whose support?
   
   Mr D Mwila: Yes, we know the tricks. This amount will go through.

Hon. MMD Member: There are no tricks.

Mr D Mwila: Mr Speaker, K1 billion will go through.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, we should be very careful with the way we spend money as people who have been entrusted with responsibility.  If a leader of a country can go for a holiday with the whole clan …

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Mr D Mwila: …then we have a problem as a country.

Mr Speaker: Order! Move away from that point.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Next point please.

Mr D Mwila: The way we spend money is questionable. Hon. Sichilima, you are very far from me.

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair.

Mr D Mwila: Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.
Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate this year’s Budget.

Mr Speaker, before I address the major issues, I would like to state that yesterday, I listened very attentively to the speech delivered by my elder brother, the hon. Minister for Southern Province, Hon. Munkombwe. In his speech, he indicated that usually I release hot air in this House. Yesterday, he was addressing us, Members of Parliament from Southern Province. He articulated his achievements as a Member of Parliament and as a part of the Government in three if not four consecutive governments.

Mr Speaker, I have the misfortune of not being accorded the misplaced privilege of serving in those four governments.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, my elder brother lamented on the Floor of this House about the squalor, hunger and poverty currently obtaining in Southern Province. In his address, he accused us of not doing much to uplift the standard of living of the people of Southern Province. He advised us to use him because he is the Minister for Southern Province.

Mr Speaker, it is our principle and philosophy in the United Party for National Development (UPND) not to use people. We are not going to use him. All that we ask of him is to co-operate with us.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: We do not believe in using other people to achieve what we want to do.

Mr Speaker, I stated that my elder brother had the misfortune of working in those four governments, which are directly responsible for …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: …the squalor, hunger and famine of our people in Southern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: He is very proud to have been part and parcel of those governments and I praise him for that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, speaking for myself, with very few years in this House, I would not be proud being …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was indicating that my elder brother, who is the hon. Minister for Southern Province was in four consecutive governments. I also indicated that these four governments that have been in power in this country have contributed to the squalor, indignation and social degradation of Southern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: These governments have been systematic in their destruction of the social fiber of the people of Southern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, at the time of independence, Zambia was one of the richest countries in Africa. Currently, it is one of the poorest countries in the world …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: …as a result of the mismanagement of resources by the MMD and UNIP Governments.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: My Elder brother is very proud of having been part of those destructive governments.

Mr Speaker, currently, the people of Southern Province are not as proud as they used to be. They have been turned into beggars in a country of plenty. They are relying on relief food because of the destructive policies of successive Governments that have ruled this country. To make matters worse, the people of Southern Province are being teased by this Government …

Major Chizhyuka: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: …for relying on relief food, which is as a result of the failures of the past and present governments.

Mr Speaker, yesterday my elder brother teased the people of Dundumwezi and Chikanta saying that they are involved in the ‘Fusocantermania.’ Surely, what do you expect a genuine farmer who realises the fruits of his labour to do? Do you not expect him or her to advance in life …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: …and acquire possessions so that also he or she can relate to people at the level of the hon. Minister for Southern Province?  Why should it be an offence for a farmer to buy a canter or fuso truck? Farming is a business like any other. My Brother is a commercial farmer in Choma. He did not concentrate on farming alone, but had other estates in Choma, which he got as a result of his ingenuity in farming. Why should he start blaming the starving people of Dundumwezi for buying canter trucks?

Mr Speaker, it is this same Government that has been inflicting injury and misery on the people of Sichifulo.

Major Chizhyuka: Pain!

Mr Mwiimbu: And even pain.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: The people of Sichifulo and the people of Kabanje in Mazabuka have suffered a lot by being displaced due to programmes started by the Government.

Major Chizhyuka: They have taken over from Lewinsky.

Mr Mwiimbu: Even Lewinsky was better.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, they brought in a Government that they deemed to be responsible and that is supposed to support them, but it has not done that. This Government appreciates wild animals more than human beings.

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should you protect wild animals which we eat and were given to us by God that we should be killing and eating them?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu:…and protect them at the expense of human beings. Why should we do that?

Mr Speaker, the law allows for the Government to degazette Game Management Areas (GMAs) …

Major Chizhyuka: Simple!

Mr Mwiimbu:…to allow the people of Sichifulo and Kabanje have access to land. The government can easily do that. 
Since they believe in appeasing the so called donors they would rather displace the people of Sichifulo, Kabanje and Mugoto in Mazabuka. Why should we do that? Why should we be heartless? We all know that in Southern Province, there is a serious shortage of land. You also know that in Southern Province, there are individuals who own more than 100,000 hectares of land each. When you look around, less than 10 per cent of that land is utilised, yet our people are being displaced from land which is supposed to be their own. All this is happening when the people have a Government that is supposed to be responsible.

Mr Speaker, our gallant Deputy Minister was a witness on the Sakala Commission. He spoke eloquently on behalf of the people, but he finds it convenient to keep quiet today when he is supposed to be protecting the people of Sichifulo and Kabanje. He is the Minister of Southern Province. I would like to urge him to sort out the mess that is in Sichifulo. Those people are his people and some of them are his relatives. Why should he allow them to suffer?

Mr Speaker, yesterday, one of our colleagues indicated that he does not like people to be surviving on relief food. There is no one in this House who would be proud to allow their people to be surviving on relief food.

 Major Chizhyuka: No one!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, there is no dignity in relief food. You cannot take our children to school if you rely on relief food. You cannot pay your medical feels if you rely on relief food. There is no pride. The people of Southern Province and other areas who are facing starvation are not asking for relief food. It is not a lasting solution. They are asking for means to ensure that they have a sustainable mode of living. That is the only thing they are asking for, from a responsible Government. Alas, we have leaders who instead of assisting tease our people. That should not be the case.

Hon. Colleagues, do you see that it is not prudent on your part to continue providing relief food instead of subsidizing agriculture? Do you really think in your opinion that we should continue providing relief food instead of providing agriculture input to everyone who is asking for relief food now? Do you not see that it will be cheaper for you? Alas, you do not want to do that. You would rather go begging, embarrass us and ask for relief food outside the country to come and feed our people. Sometimes you may even end up importing Genetically Modified Organic (GMO) food though the policy of Government is not to support GMO food. As a result of the refusal by Government to allow the importation of GMO food in this country, there is now a shortage of maize. Yet, you have denied the genetically modified maize entry into Zambia. This is the correct position. As a result of you acceding to your policies, there is a severe shortage of meal meal in the country.

Mr Speaker, as we are speaking now, there is no meal meal in Southern Province. There is severe shortage of meal meal on the Copperbelt. I tend to think that even in Central and Lusaka provinces the situation is obtaining. They know the people who have imported the GMO maize. They also know what tricks were used to acquire those contracts. They also know that actually what has happened is an affront to the rights of the Zambian people.

Mr Speaker, they know that such things should not be allowed to happen in this country. They also know that if President Mwanawasa was alive, May his soul rest in peace, he would not have allowed such a thing to happen.

 Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, let me now come to specific issues in the budget.

Sir, this Government is saying that they are going to diversify the economy by pumping money in the tourism sector. Comrades, so you really think that any…

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: I withdraw that word “comrade”.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Hon. Colleagues, do you honestly believe that you are going to entice tourists to come to this country in an environment where there is squalor, cholera and where you have failed to provide good roads and a clean environment. Which sane tourist would want to come and visit Zambia? In my view, it would have been prudent for my hon. Colleagues to have pumped money in the local government system so that local councils upgrade and clean up the environment. They should also provide clean roads and clean water, but because our colleagues reason in a lopsided manner, they believe that when there is flooding in Lusaka then we actually have a lot of water and not a drought.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, this is the reason why they do not provide proper drainage systems. When they see water they become proud and say that we have a lot of water now, therefore, we will provide water for everybody. Why do they not provide proper drainage systems? Who would want to come to the country where there is poverty?

Sir, the local government system has collapsed because we are failing to provide money for the councils to carry out its work effectively. If I were in their position, the local government system would have been priority. Any Government that wants to remain in power would want to provide good clean water and roads. I know somebody is saying that I was there. It is not possible to make a pregnant woman, pregnant.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am merely advising them. If you do not sort out the mess in the local government system, you will never achieve anything.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has provided rebates for those who want to import particular items into this country. Do you honestly think that an ordinary Zambian can be in the position to import when they have no income?

Mr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise this point of order.

Mr Speaker, this point of order might be slightly long because I have to refer a lot to issues surrounding GMAs.

Mr Speaker, in 1998/99, this House sat and came up with the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) Act. That Act created Game Management Areas.  
RRR
Sir, I want to help those people who have been debating about Sichifulo.

Interjections

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the person on the Floor is a learned former council official who knows about the laws of the Republic of Zambia.

Sir, I am afraid it is a long point of order.

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Kaingu: I have been given an opportunity to say what I have to say..

Hon. Government Members: Yes! Go ahead!

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, GMAs are taken care of by ZAWA and the chief in that area…

Major Chizhyuka: Ministerial statement iwe!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kaingu: … and his subjects. And the resources from GMAs are shared between ZAWA, the Chief and his subjects.

Sir, ZAWA contributes animals and the Chief and his subjects contribute the land and vegetation.

Major Chizhyuka: What is your point of order?

Hon. Member: He needs a workshop!

Mr Kaingu: Yes, you, need a workshop!

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the area belongs to the Chief and his subjects. The Chief is the one who knows his subjects. GMAs are not under the control of Government but ZAWA and the Chief of that particular area. If the Chief says that these subjects are not mine I want them to be removed from this GMA, there is nothing that this Government can do but to oblige. The hon. Member on the Floor knows that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Therefore, is he in order to continue talking about Sichifulo when he knows very well that Chief Nyaiwa of that area does not recognises the people living there as his subjects? Is he in order to mislead this House? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: These are the ministers and not other people!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services has raised a point of order on one of the main points made by the hon. Member for Monze in his debate. There are two technical issues here. The first one is that the hon. Minister has adequately debated his point of order.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: He needs a workshop!

Mr Speaker: The second issue is that …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

… the hon. Minister did not raise his point of order timely. For this reason, I call on all the hon. Members to look at the Handbook and be reminded that points of order, especially those which refer to the live debate on the Floor of this House, must be raised promptly while the hon. Member is on that very subject. Do not wait until a Member has gone way past the subject and then raise a point of order.

For those two procedural reasons, the Chair will not rule on that point of order.

The hon. Member for Monze may continue.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Hammer! Hammer!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that even though the Minister of Finance and National Planning has provided tax rebates on certain imported agricultural equipment, I wish to put it to him that there is no ordinary Zambian who will be able to import that equipment.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mwiimbu: There is no capital readily available for an ordinary Zambian to import that equipment.

Major Chizhyuka: May be his grandfather!

Mr Mwiimbu: There is no Zambian who is relying on relief food who will be able to import a tractor.

Major Chizhyuka: They do not have the capacity to import tractors!

Mr Mwiimbu: People will only be able to import tractors when the Ministry of Finance and National Planning performs miracles and provides manna from heaven. The best thing Government would have done was to provide interest free funding to those who would want to obtain tractors …

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, taking into consideration your earlier ruling on that last point of order raised, I want to take advantage to raise this point of order whilst the speaker is on the subject.

Sir, I need your serious ruling. Is the hon. Member in order to mislead this House that there are no ordinary Zambians who can afford to import agriculture tools when we were informed that in Southern Province, there is a ‘fusocantermania,’ where people are buying  fusos and canters after harvesting their crop? Is he in order not to inform us that he is going to go back to his constituency to tell his people to buy agriculture equipment instead of buying fusos and canters? Is he in order to dwell on that point when in his constituency, he has got ordinary Zambians in Southern Province that can actually afford to buy agricultural equipment? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training is challenging the hon. Member for Monze’s assertion that despite the incentives that are contained in the 2009 National Budget, nobody will be in a position to afford to purchase tractors, in particular. This is a matter of one of the many issues you are debating on during this motion and you will also be looking at it when you come to individual portfolios.

Hon. Member for Monze you are still on the Floor and you have been challenged. Are you overwhelmed by that point of order …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … raised by the hon. Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training?

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was using the Queen’s language. I said, “no ordinary Zambian.” Those who are able to buy fuso and canter trucks are no ordinary Zambians. The ordinary Zambians are those who are starving and living in squalor.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Other Zambians can afford but I mentioned ordinary Zambians who we are supposed to be protected in this House.

Major Chizhyuka: Who are the majority!

Mr Mwiimbu: And who are the majority.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that it would be prudent for the Government to create a vehicle through which ordinary Zambians can access capital in order to enjoy that incentive. That was my argument.

Mr Speaker, I want to echo the sentiments by my colleagues on the issue of the CDF. I would like to earnestly appeal to the Government to seriously consider the pleas that have been made by Members of the Opposition and the Government including Hon. Mpombo, on the need to increase the CDF …

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … because this affects all of us, as Members of Parliament and our constituents.

I wish I had more time, Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
RRR

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mufalali): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this chance to contribute to the debate on the Motion. I stand to support the budget presented to this august House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane on 30th January, 2009.

Mr Speaker, before I proceed, let me congratulate him on being appointed hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning by His Excellency the President Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, let me also hail the good relationship I have with hon. Members from Western Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, without their support, I would have difficulties in performing my duties. To them I say, Tuokongote meaning ‘we should be together’.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, this shows how we campaigned as a group and not as political parties in last year’s Presidential By-elections. I can only say that, please, keep it up.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning presented this Budget at a time of great uncertainty in the world economy. This Budget shows light at the end of the tunnel. I do not agree with what the hon. Member for Dundumwezi said regarding the Budget.He said his people see no light at the end of the tunnel with this Budget. The vision of the MMD Government is to see a vibrant and diversified economy where hard work and the spirit of entrepreneurship is rewarded.

Mr Speaker, this Government means well. It has set itself a number of visions and plans. Mr Speaker, for anyone in this world to prosper, they should have a vision and plan, hence our Government has set goals in the Fifth National Development Plan and the Vision 2030.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education has done a lot in our province. We, the people of Western Province are excited by the construction and rehabilitation of schools currently taking place.

Mrs Limata: Litumezi!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I will dwell on school infrastructure when I debate the budget for my province.

Mr Speaker, the 37 percent increase in the allocation to the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives sector is a step in the right direction.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the disbursement of fertiliser under the FSP has cheered the people of Western Province because the area is not an Island. We have to be helped in supporting small scale rice and cassava growers. A proper marketing system for these products is currently being put in place. At present small scale farmers of these two commodities are being victimised by buyers unnoticed.

Mr Speaker, Mongu Airport needs rehabilitation so that tourists going to Liuwa and Sioma Ngwezi national parks and even to the Kuomboka Ceremony can travel in comfort. We also need this airport for domestic flights.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Regina Musokotwane’s allegations that the former Vice President who is now the President of the Republic promised the people of Kazungula some relief food but did not deliver are not true.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, it is the same former Vice President and now President who evacuated these people from their flooded areas to upper lands. These people were even  given tents and food.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: The same hon. wife of mine.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Order! There are definitely no wives in this Chamber.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘wife’. Mr Speaker, the same hon. Member complained about the cattle restocking exercise.

Mrs Musokotwane: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is being raised and yet I have already ruled on it, I believe. Is there something new?

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to say that it is not true that there was no food taken to Kazungula when I am the hon. Member of Parliament who is on the ground and he is not part of us in Katombola Constituency. Is he in order to mislead the House and the nation?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Western Province is currently debating, may he answer to that challenge.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I can assure the hon. Member that a consignment consisting of 100 metric tonnes of maize is positioned and ready to be taken to Kazungula.

Mrs Musokotwane: Positioned!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! There should be no dialogue.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, Southern Province was the only one which had a cattle restocking exercise. The Western Province where cattle kept dying did not have the programme.

Mr Speaker, she continued to tell this House that the Opposition has the power to advise Government, but in response, I would like to say that the ruling party has power to refuse bad advice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Sir, Hon. Kambwili yesterday criticised the appointment of cadres to top positions in the Civil Service but I would like to remind him that during the campaigns last year a certain Opposition party president at a rally in Sesheke pointed at a cadre in his party and told him that ‘come 2nd November, 2008, you will be District Commissioner for Sesheke’.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, at present people point one finger at others whilst there 
are three fingers pointing at them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for this opportunity you have given me to render my voice to the Budget Speech that was given to us by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate him on the appointment and to welcome him to parliamentary language over money for the country.

Mr Speaker, I am aware of those hefty words which the hon. Minister used about the vision …

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, again I rise on a very serious point of order. When the Government starts to reply to the concerns raised by the colleagues on your left, it has become a tradition that when they present issues which are not factual, they leave the Chamber when the purpose for us replying is for them to get the correct information. This is against the Standing Orders. Mr Speaker, it appears that nothing has been done about it, hence the raising of this point of order which needs your serious ruling because your left is almost empty.

Hon. PF Members: We are here!

Mr Speaker:  The hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of His Honour the Vice-President feels that the House is not being respected, especially when those who raise issues, according to him walk out as the Executive are giving replies to their concerns. The rules of the House on this matter are governed particularly by one important consideration, the quorum. Once there is a quorum or the quorum is present in the House, the House will continue with its business whether or not anybody is deliberately walking out or has gone to another facility that I offer on one on the floors here.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Business continues so long as those who go to the facility I offer, do not come back here and disturb the flow of the debate in the House or they make themselves incoherent in their debate. So, the ruling here is that if a quorum is present in this House, then business continues. However, those who, if it is true, deliberately walk out after having raised issues that are pertinent to the welfare of their electorate are doing their voters a grave injustice because then they will have nothing to report back when they visit their constituencies. So, my counsel to the entire House is to be present and to participate fully in these important debates.

The hon. Member for Chifunabuli may continue, please.

Mr E. Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I was mentioning that the hon. Minister has a lofty vision for the country. I have to remind him as we consider his promises to the country that he is not the first one to come to this House with a very lofty ideal statement. Yet, every year, we see and observe a decline in the standard of living of our people in this country. The question that begs an answer is what happens to the lofty ideals. Where does the Government go wrong? It is in that perspective that I wish to highlight some of the issues that I consider extremely important for Government to take note of, otherwise, the vision that they have brought to this House this year will still remain a dream. We need to address the factors in our country that undermine the very ideals that we want for ourselves.

Mr Speaker, allow me first of all to say this, the hon. Minister has come to this House with a Budget and with very noble intentions, for example, that the energy sector in this country through ZESCO is expanded. The expansion programme is going to be funded by the taxpayer. What is wrong is that, after the taxpayers have been squeezed out of their little earnings in taxes so that resources can be found to give to ZESCO for their infrastructure development, the electricity company goes on to increase the tariffs on the same tax payer who has just provided them money. There is something seriously wrong in that kind of management because then, it is the tax payer who becomes poorer. Then, we undermine not only the ability for the taxpayer to have some money, but also the ability of the country to utilise the energy that will be manufactured as a result of the expansion programme. There is something wrong with that kind of arrangement. We need to re-look at what we are doing and the way we are structuring things, if we are going to make Zambia a better country to live in.

Mr Speaker, this year, money has been or is proposed to be disbursed to various ministries and programmes in the country. We need to be questioning, how these funds are managed once they are released because it is at that point when you will be able to tell whether the money released by this House for use by the Government is being utilised for the intended purposes and is producing the intended results. If we do not do this, money will be poured into projects that never end.

Mr Speaker, I want to now focus on the road sector. Every year, we spend lots of money on the road sector. Let’s take Luapula for example, first of all, some money that goes to Luapula is never utilised properly and I will talk about that a little later in detail, but the point I want to draw your attention to is that Luapula like North/Western Province and Copperbelt is the rain belt of this country. What happens is once money is released to these provinces, grading of roads begin somewhere between October and March during the period of rains. That grading and graveling happens every year and we know these are areas of heavy rainfall. Surely, what do we expect will happen after the rains? There will be no roads to talk about and that Government will come back to this House asking for more money to do the same roads the following year.

Mr Speaker, my little and simple advice is this, that in the rain belt of this country, it is a futile attempt to try to gravel roads there. Put tarmac roads there and in the long run you save more money than what you are doing now. You are simply enriching people who know that even the following year they will be coming to ask for more money to do the same roads. There is something wrong with the way we manage things. Hon. Minister, your Government is not likely to succeed in the road sector programme unless, you begin to look at the things that undermine this process.

Mr Speaker, as I gave the example of Luapula, I was also reminded of what was said by a distinguished Member regarding Luapula. The hon. Member of Parliament alluded to the fact that Luapula is second from the bottom in terms of allocation of funds for road sector development. The strange thing is that the number of kilometres that are supposed to be covered by the little funding that comes is far larger than those provinces which receive more money. Your solutions in terms of road development show that the money you allocate to this sector is meant to simply patch up a few places and move on. The roads are not fully being worked on.
RR
A 2000 kilometres stretch cannot be rehabilitated with about, let me just look at the exact figures, K152 billion. Luapula Province is expected to cover 2034 kilometres with K152 billion while in the North-Western Province, for example, K469 billion is covering 2115 kilometres. This says something about how we are handling things in various provinces differently. Obviously, in one place, the road is being tarred and in another the road is being graveled or patched. The two provinces cannot have almost the same number of kilometres covered by different budget allocations. That difference says a lot.

Now, my point is simply that we are better off spending this K152 billion doing one good road in a province by tarring it to ensure that next year we will not spend any money on the same road than spreading this little allocation all over the province and undermine everything all the good work we trying to do, since the gravel only stays for a short while. There is something wrong with that kind of planning. As a country we need seriously to look at how we are plan our programmes in order to succeed.

Mr Kambwili: Tabomfwa.

Mr Mwansa: Sir, procurement is another important issue in terms of how the money the hon. Minister is allocating throughout the country is utilised. Now, first of all let me give an example of the agriculture sector, and particularly the FSP. The President had stated that there would be an increase in the money for this programme and that he really wants to ensure that fertiliser is purchased early in the year so that it is distributed on time for farming at the end of the year.

That idea is very brilliant and good except that the experience I have had in our country is that, irrespective of such a pronouncement and mark my words hon. Mr Speaker, we will be back next year complaining about the fertiliser being delivered late and inadequate. So the question that begs an answer is why this is happening. My response to that is that is there something wrong with the procurement process. It seems to me that every year, some people wait until the prices start rising, before they begin to buy the fertiliser to be used in the FSP. At that point, the Government is in a state of panic and is unable to monitor how the purchases are taking place. At that period, people are soiling their pockets, so to say. If the way procurement of fertilisers is done is not changed in this country, we will never change the number, first of all, of the fertilisers that we buy for this country and most of all, the misuse of the funds that go into this programme.

If time is given to the officers that distribute fertiliser, it will help them do it perfectly. How do we expect our officers to distribute thousands of tonnes of fertiliser in January or in November when the rains have already begun which is planning and executing programmes wrongly. Unless we change that, we will come back next year and we will be on the Government’s neck again for misuse of funds and for distributing inputs to our people in a wrong way.

Sir, I now come to another issue, which is the inadequacy of available resources for the hon. Minister’s distribution or the revenue that he distributes. Is this problem going to continue or can we put a stop to it? In my view, that is the problem that begs for solutions.

Sir, I was privileged when you sent me to Italy to attend a World Food Programme (WFP) conference on the issue of donor resources and how they are used in recipient countries. I sat and listened to many experts speak about how donor money is being misused in third world countries. However, a statement that caught my attention while there came from a Chinese expert at the Food Agriculture Organisation (FAO) headquarters. He said that if he was to choose between integrity and being given food, he would choose integrity. He went further to say that there is no such thing as a donation in international politics. Whenever there is a donation, there is something that the donor country wants from the country being given money.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa:  That is a point we usually forget in our country. Nobody comes here to make us rich. The first priority of the so-called donors is to make themselves rich and then the fall offs are what the Zambians take. This is a point we fail to appreciate. What have we done to deserve the goodwill of the world? Do you think somebody who is born in another country can be very kind and really just want to help us, who were born and raised in Zambia? You think these people will just give us millions of dollars for us to use as and when we need the money. That is a fallacy and unacceptable. Nobody gives anybody something for nothing.

Mr Speaker, in fact, what I believe is that, if one keeps asking for something from someone and that person continues giving, in the long run, the beggar becomes a slave of that individual …

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa: … and can never criticise the giver.  The receiver will keep his or her mouth shut even when he or she knows that what the donor is saying is rubbish because he or she has been bought. Yet, in this country, we imagine that those who come here dangling money before our faces mean well all the time. There is something wrong with our mindset and if we do not change it, this is country will never see development.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa: Sir, let me give an example over my statement concerning the whole issue of our water resources. I want to declare the fact that I was a hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Energy and Water Development in the past. The Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries began to talk about reparations regarding the water sector. Simply put, an issue was brought up regarding the sharing of waters that come from all countries which go into shared waterways.

There were initiatives within my ministry to quickly sign a protocol on shared water courses. I was given the document to read and I tore it up. After I did that, my hon. Minister then said that I would be the one to go to Zimbabwe where this matter would be discussed. I thanked him and said I would go. So I went. Whilst there, I noticed that all the countries around us wanted us to start sharing the water within the region. I want to point out that all our neighbouring countries have utilised their water resource almost to a 100 per cent level. Zambia’s usage of its water resources is just about 4 per cent at the most and we have 40 per cent of the water resources of the SADC region. Now, why should we go and sit at a table to negotiate how we can share our own resource with other people?

Major Chizhyuka: Can you imagine?

Mr Mwansa: What kind of logic is that? That is not being good but being that word that Mr Speaker does not like us to use in Parliament but certainly it is not a good word.

Major Chizhyuka: But you are being that word.

Mr Mwansa: You are just being that word.

Laughter

Mr Mwansa: Sir, the point that I am trying to bring to our attention is that when we have a resource such as the water we have in this country, we have a source of income which the hon. Minister of Finance and National Panning can tap into. If these other countries want our water, they must pay for it and there is no apology to make. It is our natural resource.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa: I wonder how much money we would make from such a deal with those that have a shortage in water. Indeed, let me warn the hon. Minister that it has been predicted that the next wars in the world will be over fresh water. If we do not preserve our water, we will be attacked and harangued for the resource that God has given to us.

   Let us keep as much of the water as we can in our country for goodness sake before it goes to other countries. Who shares their resource with you, that you must become father or madam Christmas and sells every resource they have just to make money for the country.

Mr Speaker, mining is such a wealth .It is a worthy investment for this country, but how many Zambians are benefiting from the mining sector, very few. In my province there is manganese and the local people use hoes to dig it out, but are denied mining licences by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. They have given the entire Luwingu District to one Chinese miner.

The law so provides that for a large scale mining, you can only give up to 25,000 square kilometres. The area we are talking about is over 100,000 square kilometres and was given to one individual, who currently, is subdividing that land and giving it to fellow Chinese. I have put this in writing to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. He has been saying that I should declare my interest regarding the issue. If I have to declare interest, I would say that it is my desire that the people of this country benefit from the resources of this country. That is my interest and I have no apology to make to anybody.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, it is unacceptable to hand over even things that we can do for ourselves to others. This is also the same with the Ministry of Lands. It is easier for foreigners to get land in this country than local people. I find that totally unacceptable. Where in the world can you get land in a foreign land so quickly? Which country?

Hon. PF Member: Calcutta.

 Mr Mwansa: Can we not feel a sense of shame when things like giving land to every Jimmy and Jack are happening in our offices. These foreigners do not have land where they come from, but they want to grab your land here. It is totally unacceptable.

Sir, as I close, let me warn this Government that if you do not change the way you run business, hon. Ministers, your will not succeed in developing this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Mr Shakafuswa): Mr Speaker, I am going to begin my presentation by thanking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for a good job done in presenting this year’s budget. I know concerns have been raised by others Members, but I would also want to comment on some of the sentiments regarding people thinking that resources are not equitably distributed, which is a fallacy.

Other areas have never got any kind of investment from the time Zambia attained independence. Therefore, when the Government decides to look at these areas, it should not be said that investment is going into those areas. There is this tendency by some people of thinking that Zambia belongs to them alone which is wrong.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We should know that Zambia belongs to everybody and this is why some people say they are going to form the next government. Let me give you some good advice, Chibombo District which also controls Kapiri Mposhi District has got about 200,000 voters, us, Lenjes control that area. Therefore if you keep thinking your districts is more important than other districts, you will never form a government because we choose who to vote for.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, just like any budget, whether it is in a home or anywhere, if I came and made a budget, my wife will not be happy. It is unfortunate that some of the most vocal critics of this budget cannot come up with an alternative budget. I could have enjoyed seeing some of these vocal people here come with an alternative budget which will show us their sources of income and how they can mix the expenditure they are talking about. What we have got is an attempt at expending our own resources within our limits. Since there are people with fantastic ideas let them share them with us. I have good ideas also, for your own information Katuba Constituency on the Great North Road goes up to Mwembeshi Satellite Station and beyond the borders of Nangoma, a distance of about 150 kilometres.

Mr Speaker, Moomba High School whose electrification someone was talking about earlier, is the only point from Great North Road up to Mungule which was electrified from the time we got independence. Electricity used to pass through Katuba Constituency going to the north without our constituency being electrified.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: This time round the problem of electricity is a partial problem.

Mr Speaker, I enjoy quoting the words of the late President Levy Mwanawasa, may his soul rest in peace, which are:

“Jonas when you were in the Opposition, you had solutions. Now I have taken you to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, use that knowledge you had in the Opposition to give the people of Zambia the respect they deserve.’

 After being part of government for a while, I have found that talking is as easy as watching a football game but getting the work done is difficult.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: I will give an example …

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: Are you challenging me? Hon. Lubinda came here and said that it will be very impossible to achieve a 5 per cent growth because of the global recession. Hon. Members the global recession has not impacted on us very seriously …

Dr Scott interjected.

Mr Shakafuswa: … yes, there are economists Dr Scott who do not understand the economics, will see it that way and …

Mr Speaker: Order! Do not refer to hon. Member’s capacity to understand issues. All hon. Members of Parliament do understand these issues. You continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the global economic recession has manifested itself this year, but for those who have been reading economic trends they know that it started a long time. It actually started after the war in Iraq when prices of crude oil started increasing. This situation started affecting the demand for oil whereby people had to reassess their expenditure. In certain countries people depend on loans to buy homes and many other things .They depend on credit to buy most things. Now that credit is not readily available, the effective demand has gone down.

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Sir!

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I did not wish to disturb the debate of the hon. Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational who is also a Member of Parliament for Katuba, who I agree with when he talks about the need to redistribute resources to areas that were not receiving resources in the past.

However, I rise on a point of order with regard to his just mentioned statement that the global economic crunch has not affected Zambia. Is he in order to suggest that the global economic crunch has not affected this country when the greatest consumers of our copper are the Chinese have been affected. China is currently faced with six million job losses, giving rise to less demand for our copper thus reducing the price from US$8,000 per metric tonne to US$3,000.The reduction in copper prices has created a lot of job losses on the Copperbelt Province. It has also affected inflation rate. Is he is order to stand and insinuate in this House that this global economic crisis which has made Toyota incur losses for the first time in the history of the company has not affected us in Zambia given the circumstances we are in. I beg for your leadership and ruling on this matter.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Namwala certainly desires to debate through a point of order. The hon. Deputy Minister may continue with his debate.

Mr Shakafuswa:  Mr Speaker, while I admit that the effects of the global recession have affected this country, it is not to the extent where we cannot achieve a 5 per cent economic growth rate. I say so because there are other areas, apart from mining which have been affected, but are still active.

For example, people have said that construction might not achieve growth. On the contrary, it will achieve growth as we have just commissioned another cement plant in Chilanga. This means that we will build more schools and roads than we did last year. This year, the construction industry might even be the lead contributor to our GDP to the tune of 5 per cent.

Mr Speaker, when we look at the statistics which Hon. Lubinda nicely quotes, you will discover that mining and quarrying contributed negatively to the GDP. However, we had positive trends in communication, trading, storage and transportation.

Hon. Government Member: And tourism.

Mr Shakafuswa:  Mr Speaker, the new buses and trucks on our roads today are evidence that people like Hon. Nsanda have brought in new buses, thereby, creating value in the transport industry.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, people can say “aah” because it is fashionable to think with the mouth than with the head.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, admittedly, we are going to have an overall slow down in most activities. However, we should face this slow down together as one nation.

Mr Speaker, which Government would want to pay its workers salaries that are below the minimum wage? A Government can only do that because of financial constraints. I always say that even if you wanted to share, the resources that we have at the moment are so meager.

I come from a Ministry which can change the future of this country.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa:  Yes, Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Science and Technology can change the future of this country. Look at the so called tiger nations which include Malaysia, Singapore, Japan and China. How have they achieved growth? They invested in science and technology. Today, the west is producing its goods in the tiger nations mentioned above. Why? It is because they taught their people how to deal in electronics, etc.

Mr Speaker, I am saying that we have the capacity to do great things, but we have to sit together, instead of criticising the very formulas which can work. I do not blame my friends in the Opposition because I also enjoyed that part and also look forward to it. I enjoyed sitting and talking about things that cannot work.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, what I enjoy the most is that we have good brains within this house, which if put together, would take this country to greater heights, such that the people who dream of forming the next Government will find a foundation already laid for them.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the shadow Minister of Labour, God forbid! God chooses leaders, they are not created. When people desire to create a leader in you, you will find that things are difficult. Leadership is born. The Bible says, “I will deliver you the land, not through coercion, but through the hand of the lord.” If the Lord has not prepared you for leadership, you can come close to winning, but you will never win.

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: When you have qualities which I see in some people, God can even say, what land am I going to give to my children? God forbid!

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa:  Mr Speaker, we have talked about a lot of solutions.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Hon. PF Members: Slaughter house!
 
Mr Shakafuswa: Some people are saying that the solution to the problems we face today is to inject more money in the mines so as to sustain their operations.

Mr Mukanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa:  kainge you want me to take you to the slaughter house.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order. I did not intend to disturb my brother, who is on the Floor of the House.

I would like to quote from today’s edition of The Post newspaper, dated 6th February, 2009 from an article that has appeared on the front page entitled ‘Government Awards RP Capital Partners US$2 million Contract to Value Zamtel’s Assets.’

I will try to quote a few portions of the story as follows:

“The Government has awarded RP Capital Partners of Caymen Islands a US$2 million [about K10.3 billion] contract to value Zamtel’s assets, before implementing the partial privatisation of the company.

But sources within the Ministry of Transport and Communications have described the award of this contract as irregular, especially that RP Capital Partners was single sourced.”

Mr Speaker, is this Government in order to single source and give a contract to RP Capital Partners without even following the proper tender procedures, and yet the company is not even better than the Zambian companies which valuated ZCCM? Is it in order to do this without realising that the money being spent is tax payer’s money?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Is this Government in order to go into that direction? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kantanshi has raised a point of order as the House has heard. I am not sure who those sources are in the ministry, but my guidance is that when the hon. portfolio Minister rises to reply as the Executive are doing to bear that point of order in mind as more light is being shed light on issue raised.

May the hon. Deputy Minister continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, there were suggestions that for us to get back on our feet, the Government should recapitalise the mines so that their operations can be sustained. That sounds fashionable in dreams.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, if we are to maintain inflation and interest rates at affordable levels, the recapitalisation of the mines by the Government is not sustainable with the kind of resources that we have got. It will entail the Government borrowing money. I know that the same people are also saying that American companies are borrowing money to sustain their operations. Yes, it is because they have got the capacity. These companies have developed themselves to reach such a capacity. If we were to borrow today to sustain the mines, it would be a sunk cost. Our children will be repaying money which may be these companies which are running the mines were supposed to have been keeping in order to sustain their future operations. It is not logical thinking to expect government to do that. How much is needed to sustain the operations of these mines? I think billions of US dollars would be needed. How much in billions of US dollars do you come and pay in interest on the principal amount? We cannot sustain such kind of operations. That kind of thinking can be described as, if I am allowed to borrow a term which was used earlier by someone from the Opposition, lopsided.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, some hon. Members were saying that interest rates have been reduced by European countries. Yes they have, but are they solving the financial problems that have manifested themselves even in Zambia.  In Western countries, people have stopped borrowing. They have reduced interest rates to attract people to start borrowing or to make borrowing sustainable and affordable because banks are not giving mortgages. The central banks are also trying to come in to help financial institutions were necessary. We do not have a mortgage problem in Zambia. Our people do not use money from banks in a large context to run their lives. They use their hard earned money to run their lives.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: When you say that interest rates should be reduced in Zambia, you should bear in mind the phenomenon in which these countries have reduced their rates, which does not account for anything in Zambia. It is a laughable matter for someone to stand on the Floor of this House and mislead us by suggesting that it can be applicable in this country.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: I long for a day when ideas that go beyond political situations would be brought into this House. Instead of just pointing fingers at each other, why not come up together one day and say, as Zambian Members of Parliament together with a few experts we are going into the amphitheatre were we will ask ourselves questions regarding the way forward for the country’s development. After that meeting, we will tell the Government that this is the way we want to go.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: People who would like to offer solutions here cannot stand up because they know that when their views come in the open to be debated on, they have got no further ideas to bring to the discussion.  In fact, most of them have borrowed ideas which were just told to them by someone. This is a situation whereby someone just comes up and tells them that this is the solution to this problem and before analysing it, they also start thinking it is, when its not.

Hon. UPND Members: Others will disagree!

Mr Shakafuswa: But to those who disagree with what I have said, I want to tell them that there are some hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition who take the interests of the nation at heart. Those Members are going to attend such a meeting because they know that serious national matters are going to be discussed there. Such Members would like to move this nation forward.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Executive must be allowed to answer.

Mr Shakafuswa: In this country, …

Mr Speaker: Order!  Members of the Executive are now replying and can hon. Members cut down on points of orders, please. I am listening to procedural mistakes if any and I have not heard any single mistake on procedure that the hon. Deputy Minister has committed. May he continue.

Hon. Government Members: Long live the Chair!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I would like to state that the Government through my Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational has heard the cries of the people of Zambia and it needs the support of all the hon. Members of Parliament. As a ministry, we need support from hon. Members of Parliament and the Government in order to alleviate the poverty which is being faced in this country. We have got a lot of youths on the streets. That problem is a ticking time bomb. These youths are dropping out of school and we would like to make them a productive element of this society. At the moment, we have started short courses for electricians and bricklayers. These courses give them basic knowledge which they can use to build or electrify a house. If they are lucky, people like Hon. Lubinda can hire them to do some electrical works for his disco house called Namakau House in Chilenje.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, we have got the potential to uplift the standards of living for people in this country through the use of science and technology. We have got a laboratory at Mt Makulu, in Chilanga which has trained scientists who are now making medicines in Botswana which we are importing for use in the treatment of animal diseases in Southern Province. We need money in science and technology which can help us bring back our scientists to this country so that they can come and develop things that will carter for our needs here.

Mr Speaker, we are also looking at using technology to make good products out of waste materials. We have got a problem with plastics. We are looking at countries like Russia, China and India, who are making roofing sheets out of plastics. These are very durable, cheap and good roofing materials. We are currently embarking on a programme to establish how we can to use such technology in our industries. This technology is affordable for a country like Zambia. We would like people to invest in such cheap technology so that they can contribute towards Government’s poverty reduction efforts.

Mr Speaker, I seek the indulgence of Government on the next issue I shall be bringing up. The Government is the biggest buyer of most commodities you can think of and can give a lot of small enterprises good business. Sadly, Government is often misdirected by certain individuals when it wants to source various goods and services.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: The orders for goods and services from the Government are enriching a few people. We can sit down and see ways of how we can spread this business amongst different business outfits. We firstly, though have to start by training these youths on how they can produce different goods and services. Afterwards, it will be very easy for us to tell the Ministry of Home Affairs to buy things like doors and window frames made by these youths, whenever they need such products. Those who already have basic knowledge in a particular trade should be trained on how to make more stronger and durable products.

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We want that education to go with an order so that we put economic value in our training.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, with regard to the bricklayers who are graduating from our trade schools, we want the Ministry of Education to give them contracts to build new schools. In fact, companies have been formed by these graduate bricklayers and the Government has already started helping them to access business. Companies have been formed by these graduates …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: … and we can give them contracts to build some of these schools so that no money goes to the bourgeoisie who are taking this money every year, in and out of this country. It is better to give contracts to these poverty stricken youths who at the end of the day will contribute a lot to the development of this country because they have got an interest in developing Zambia. These youths are local and the money will be invested here in Zambia.

These are some of the things which I wanted to share with the hon. Members so that we can work together towards the achievement of the Zambian dream.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to contribute on the Motion which is on the Floor of the House. Sir, I would like to commend you and your staff for the professional way in which you have conducted the different activities of this House. I would also like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for a well thought through Budget Speech. I am very convinced that he will be able to assist this country to move forward.

Mr Speaker, the speech has assisted in enriching the speech that was given earlier by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda. Sir, since I did not have an opportunity before to make any speech, I would like to briefly refer to the recent Presidential Elections, by congratulating His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia for winning the October 2008 polls.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I would like to further commend the hon. Members of Parliament who worked tirelessly to ensure that His Excellency the President does win the election and to make sure that the MMD Government continues to rule.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I was reading on what happened when the presidential results came out in Ghana and I observed that Professor John Atta Mills had gone through by 50.23 per cent and President John Agyekum Kufuor got 49.77 per cent. Now, if you look at these results, you will find that they both got approximately 50 per cent. In other words, the difference between the votes was only 0.46 per cent. After those results were announced, Ghana has continued to be at peace. We have not heard of any people trying to protest despite that small difference.

Interruptions

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, when we had elections in Zambia, the ruling MMD got 40.09 per cent and the poor finishing, as PF is called on the Copperbelt got 38.13 per cent. There was a difference of about 2 per cent. It was interesting to see that after losing by 2 per cent, some people could not believe that they had lost. Our colleagues in Ghana lost by that small difference, but did not try to cause any confusion in their country. I think we need to learn from what is happening in other countries.

Interruptions

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, it is further sad to note that whilst other countries in Africa are being led by highly educated people like Professor John Atta Mills, some Zambians are advocating for people of an unknown educational background to occupy leadership positions.

Laughter

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, in fact, one of the presidential candidates in the last elections is reported to only have a grade 4 level of education.

Laughter

Dr Puma: It is further sad to note that even the highly educated people like Dr Machungwa, Dr Scott and Dr Mwansa are rallying behind a Grade 4…

Laughter

Dr Puma: … instead of …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The Deputy Minister will move away from that subject.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Please, debate the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I would like to tell the hon. Members on your left who have been making sentiments that in two years time, they are going to take over Government that two years can be a very long time and a lot of things can change. You will recall what happened to our colleagues on the left in 2001. One of their presidents even declared that he was the winner even before the final results could be announced. The fact that you were very close to victory in the last presidential election does not mean that things will go that way again. Two years can be a very long time and things can change.

Mr Speaker, coming to the 2009 Budget…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma:…I would like to mention that the Budget is very loaded and it has covered very critical areas of importance in terms of development. It has also covered important areas that are very crucial in improving the current situation in our country. I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for increasing the budget allocation to the agricultural sector by 37 per cent.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair wants to follow the debater and I hope you want to follow with me. The hon. Deputy Minister, please continue.

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I mentioned that the speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has covered very critical areas that will make sure that this country moves forward. I am particularly happy about the increase in the agriculture sector by 37 per cent. If this money is well utilised, it will assist us to move forward and improve our agriculture sector. I have also noted that the health sector has also had an increment in the budget allocation it has received.

Sir, further, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning mentioned the issue of infrastructure development in the health sector, which I believe is very critical. Then he also talked about the shortage of drugs in hospitals and clinics which is a very big problem in this country. I am glad that in the recent past, the situation has changed. I am sure the allocation to the health sector will help increase the availability of drugs in medical institutions.

Mr Speaker, I am glad to note that medical equipment is specifically mentioned as part of the budget line under health. This is because construction of a lot of hospitals and health centres has been done but they have not been equipped. With this Budget, I am confident that they will be equipped with all the new medical equipment required.

Mr Speaker, I am glad that 17.2 per cent has been allocated to the education sector…

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

Mr Speaker: Order! I do not know if the hon. Member for Lusaka Central was here when I said that the House should listen to the Executive when it is replying to issues raised and I am listening carefully as to whether any debater is violating the rules of debating in this House. As far as I can tell, the hon. Deputy Minister has not violated any rules of the debate. May be the hon. Member for Lusaka Central has keener ears and I would like to hear what he has to say.

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, you have guided this House many times that whenever hon. Ministers speak in these debates, they should focus upon their own sectors and respond to issues that have been raised in relation to their own ministries. The debater on the Floor, apart from spending many minutes engaging in educational apartheid is now doing a cross country debate through all the other sectors expect his own. Is he in order to do that?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Lusaka Central desires to hear specific issues in the portfolio of Local Government and Housing from the hon. Deputy Minister who is now on the Floor. However, it is not necessary that a member of the Executive should be confined solely to his or her portfolio. Members of the Executive work collectively. They assist one another.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker: However, when this House will next consider portfolio allocations, it would be wholly advisable for Cabinet Ministers and Deputy Ministers to speak very closely on policies and activities in their ministries. For now, since the Budget was cross country, I allow members of the executive to reply in A cross country fashion. He may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Mr Speaker, I was briefly touching on the subject of the education sector, which has received an increment. It has received an allocation of 17.2 per cent of the total Budget. I am confident that with the activities done so far by the Ministry of Education, more schools will be constructed.

Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for zero rating tax on agriculture equipment that includes tractors, of up to 60 hose powers, ploughs and hand pumps. This will definitely lead to an increase in food production. In the past, we have observed that when the transport sector received zero rating regarding taxes, it led to an increase in the number of buses on our roads. Similarly, I am confident that the agriculture sector will benefit from this tax relief.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to commend the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for considering the film making industry in Zambia. Currently, our people are watching so many foreign movies so much so that it is not unusual to find a Zambian trying to speak like a Nigerian all because he or she watches a lot of movies from that country. It is a very unfortunate situation.

Mr Speaker, I would like to encourage the hon. Minister of Finance that instead of just looking at a refund of 15 per cent, there is need to render support to the first few movies produced because we do not have the capacity in this country to make internationally recognised movies. The Government should support a few productions to begin with, later on they could get a refund of 15 per cent. That would be very good.

Mr Speaker, having read the whole Budget, it is clear that it is addressing the plight of the poor. I would like to talk briefly on an issue that has been extensively talked about by other hon. Members. I did not have an opportunity to mention this. Just to support Hon. Sichilima’s observation on the fruits in Southern Province, I want to cite my personal experience …

Mr Speaker: Order! I did guide yesterday that it is too much of this matter.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Can we move on.

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I want to move on and talk about an issue that has already been mentioned in this House by some hon. Members concerning the salaries in the Chinese run mines, particularly, Chambeshi Mine.

Mr Speaker, statements were uttered that the miners get K500,000, per month. These statements were in total contrast to the statements from the mine. Last year when I launched the HIV work place policy at Chambeshi Mine, I specifically asked how much the minimum wage for a full time employee was. Out of personal interest, I later went to Kalulushi City Council to compare what information they had about the wage structure at  Chambeshi Mine so that I could compare it with the information that I got from the mine officials.

Mr Speaker, the truth is that there is no full time worker at Chambeshi Mine who is getting K500,000 per month. I challenge those who strongly talked about this to produce evidence that there is a full time miner getting K500,000 per month at the said mine. The information I gathered is that a full time worker gets a gross of K2 million.

Mr Lubinda: Where is the evidence?

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I would like to briefly talk about citizenship empowerment. I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for allocating K40 billion for empowering citizens.  The Citizenship Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF) needs to be understood by all of us in this House and the general public.

   This money is not meant to be given out as hand outs as it has been in the past. The purpose of this fund is to give money to those who have the knowledge and capacity to engage in economically viable activities so that we can create employment for our people.

For those handouts in form of grants, I must say that some of them have been very helpful in the past though we needed to also come up with something new and innovative like the CEEF. The main challenge, though, shall be to find ways of considering how the other people who do not have sureties and the capacity to write good proposals can also be assisted, otherwise, CEEF is a very good initiative which needs to be supported by all. From the figures I obtained showing the number of the people who applied for funding from the CEEF last year, I can safely assume that it will help create a good number of jobs for our people. The fund will support micro, small and medium enterprises which are a source of employment and skills for the nation. Therefore, there is need for all of us to support this programme so that we help many people involve themselves in the job creation.

Sir, often when we talk about job creation, we think that it task that can be carried out by Government alone. This is an opportunity for all of us, especially for those that have the capacity to write good proposals to become job creators. We should not spend most of our time just condemning foreigners or blaming for them for our underdevelopment. What are we doing ourselves? Instead of condemning foreigners that are helping our country to progress, let us try to see how we can work with them in order to bring development to our country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, recently I visited a Chinese Wood Processing Plant along Kafue Road. I was very impressed with the works that are going on there. I found that they are bringing very big logs from Eastern Province and processing them into timber which is being exported abroad.

Mr Speaker, the thing is that the same trees have been growing in Western Province for along time without anyone benefiting economically from them. Even if we allowed those trees to grow for another 100 years, they will eventually die without anyone benefiting from them. Therefore, the best thing that we can do is to join these people and understand how they make money from selling products made from raw materials which are accessed from our environment.

 Hon. Government: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, if we just condemn investors even before they come, our raw materials will continue going to waste without us benefiting anything from them.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, if I identify a Chinese or any other foreigner who has come into the country and has good knowledge on how make money out of our raw materials, let me try and  find ways of how I can learn from him or her. hats the way to go.

Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Members of Parliament especially on your left to make sure that they work closely with Government so that we can develop the country together. How are you going to develop your area without engaging Government? Soon or later, you will discover that after three years of your term in office, you have not done anything. Therefore, if you continue unnecessarily criticising the Government, it will be difficult for us to deliver quality service to our people.

Mr Speaker, in social science, there is a statement which says “If you show hatred to somebody, the response will be that of hatred, but if you show love, the response will be that of love.” Therefore, all those hon. Members of Parliament who are confrontational to Government should expect the same treatment in return.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, further, I would like to dismiss the sentiments that have been raised on your left that only MMD strongholds are being developed. This is far from the truth. The truth is that Government continuously identifies areas that need attention and then prioritises which places need urgent attention. I was surprised that the hon. Member would compare Chingola to Masaiti.He claimed that Masaiti is more developed than Chingola. I do not know whether he has been to Masaiti. Even the Council Secretary for Masaiti has no house to live in. In Lufwanyama, no one stays there because there are no houses. Therefore, if someone says development is going to rural Copperbelt, it is a clear sign the person is suffering from a poverty of knowledge.

Laughter

   In fact, this reminds me of a statement which our late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, May His Soul Rest in Peace, usually used in most of the meetings, “None of us is wiser than all of us”. This is a very loaded statement, Mr Speaker, and it is important that we know that we should not think that what we say as individuals, is what is more important than what others have to say. No, we need collective responsibility so that we can bring development to this country.

Sir, it is unfortunate that some of the Members of Parliament, especially in the Opposition, think that being in opposition means just opposing anything. Even before the Minister of Finance and National Planning stands to present his budget, they are there looking at how he is walking and want to start criticising.

Laughter

Dr Puma: That is not the way it is supposed to be. You need to analyse what has been said after which, make constructive criticisms so that some of the sentiments, if they make sense, can be taken on.

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to commend His Excellency the President for appointing some of our supporters of high integrity …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: … this situation is the same all over the world.

Interruption

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Dr Puma: Even President Obama never appointed those who were very close to McCain.

Laughter

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I remember when the results of our past elections were being released, the first thing I saw was a red eye on the screen saying, “Let us stop counting”. So, you knew that nkani yalula!

Laughter

Dr Puma: When you get into power you have to make sure that those who supported you are well supported as well.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: As the Minister mentioned, our President has given us power and we are going to make sure that we share it with those who supported us.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, I have only got seven minutes to contribute to this debate.

Sir, thank you very much for the giving me this opportunity and I would like to state from the onset that I support the motion on the Floor.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: In the same vain, I commend the Minister of Finance and National Development for his Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker, the Budget has been described in many ways by people both outside and inside this House. However, one’s interpretation of the budget depends on what they want to get out of it. The most important thing is that every Zambian wants development. It does not matter where one comes from.

Mr Singombe: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: However, if you want to make Zambia a regional country where every one wants a bigger chunk of money to his/her constituency or province, then we will not go anywhere.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, my biggest problem in this country is the manner in which money is spent by those who are given the responsibility to spend it.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Therefore, hon. Minister, I urge you to ensure that there is a prudent management system in your ministry. People who are responsible in spending the country’s money are not using it the way it is supposed to be used. No matter how much money you allocate in the budget, if it is not well utilised, it is simply being thrown in the drain.

Mr Speaker, poverty in this country is so high that our people need every coin. Therefore, it is incumbent upon this Government to ensure that all the country’s money is accounted for.

Mr Singombe: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, allow me to say something on agriculture. The FSP has not achieved its intended purpose. I want to tell this Government that it would be wrong for you to subsidise fertiliser across the board, for example, for two years as it was done in 1992 in the transport sector? Today, you can see how the transport sector is operating. It is because what was done in 1992. You can subsidise fertiliser for two years and thereafter, let people pay economic prices. That way, you will empower our people.

Hon. PF Members: hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: At the rate we are going, this programme is a disaster. Every Zambian depends on the FSP, including those who have money to buy fertiliser

Mr Singombe: Even commercial farmers!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, the Government intended to provide fertiliser to 1.4 million farmers and yet they could only give 200,000. Where are we going? Is this Government not interested in having enough food for our people within the country and showing them how to sow and raise money or revenue for our treasury? Then we have a problem!

Mr Speaker, in Malole, for example, there were about 4,000 farmers who were targeted for the FSP but only 2,000 received fertiliser. Hunger will continue as long as our people are not able to grow enough food.

Mr Speaker, allow me to say something on an area which I have not heard any hon. Member talk about and this is sport. Sport is a very important ingredient to anyone’s life. Today, even doctors know that you have to exercise and it is for this reason that I would like to state that I am saddened that this country has no serious investment in sport. Sir, I urge Government to ensure that investment comes to this area.

Mr Speaker, the Independence Stadium, for example, had its grand stand razed to give way to another stadium so that Zambia could host the 2011 All Africa Games. Now that this tournament is not going to take place, I wonder how long it will take to rebuild it. In 1986, Government razed the Daghammerskjoeld Stadium with the hope of hosting the 1988 Africa Cup and yet, at the end of it all they pulled out, but we are still talking about this stadium. I hope the Independence Stadium will not go the same way because the people need to use it.

Mr Speaker, allow me to say something on infrastructure. The roads in our country need attention. I would like to thank the MMD Government for giving us the Kalungu Bridge in Malole Constituency.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munalile: Mr Speaker, having said that, I would like to state that there is more to be done and Hon. Tetamashimba will attest to this because he got stuck on one of my roads for three hours when the President visited Malole. Mr Speaker, it is important that the road from Kasama to Isoka is done and the Ufwenuka/Kayambi Road.The Mbesuma Bridge which the late President and the current President promised the people of Malole should also be done.

Mr Speaker, we need to open up our country because it does not make any business sense, for instance, to travel from Northern Province to Chipata to first come to Lusaka and then proceed to Chipata. We can do well to work on the Matumbo/Chama Road in order to cut the distance and the cost for people travelling from Northern Province to Eastern Province. It is important to look at it from that perspective. That road will cater for the people in Hon. Nkhata’s constituency and the people in Hon. Chilembo’s constituency.

Mr Speaker, finally allow me to talk about tourism. Tourism is not only for foreigners. First of all, we must let our people to visit the areas we would like the foreign tourists to visit. Sir, it is rare for a Zambian to tour any of these game parks and other tourist attractions and so I suggest that tourism should be marketed in the country before we look to the outside.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, those who were born long before me know how Kasaba Bay was thriving and, therefore, I would like to implore the hon. Minister of Tourism that as people from Northern Province, you will do us a good service if that place is taken back to its old self.

Mr Speaker, I would like to emphasise the point that Government should increase the Constituency Development Fund so that we give the people what they need.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity …

Mr Speaker: Order!
(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 10th February, 2009.