Debates- Tuesday, 20th October, 2009

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Tuesday, 20th October, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]





The following Member took and subscribed the Oath of Allegiance:

Geofrey Bwalya Mwamba

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!




139. Mr D Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) how much money the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) received from both the Government and donors in 2006, 2007 and 2008; and
(b) what the future plans of ZAWA on the expansion of national parks were.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Mwangala): Mr Speaker, the money received by the Zambia Wildlife Authority from both the Government and donors in terms of the Zambian Kwacha was as follows:

 Source/year 2006 2007 2008 
 Government 4,549,000,000 6.152,000,000 4,049,000,000
 Donors 13,792,000,000 18,292,000,000 12,561,000,000
 Total 18,341,000,000 24,344,000,000 16,610,000,000 

Mr Speaker, in answer to part (b), there are currently twenty national parks in the country. Zambia through the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources has plans to increase the number of national parks depending on the availability of land to support natural resources of significant ecological and socio-economic value.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D Mwila: Mr Speaker, if you look at the money which came from the donors and Government, you will find that Government contributed more money than Government….


Mr D. Mwila: Sorry, Mr Speaker, donors contributed more money than the Government to ZAWA. Will the hon. Minister explain to this House when the Government will start putting more money than the donors in the operations of ZAWA?

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Miss Namugala): Mr Speaker, the wish of the Government is to contribute more money to not just tourism, but to all the key sectors of the economy. However, this will obviously depend on how well we grow the economy as a country.

Mr Speaker, because of resource constraints, the Government only puts in the tourism sector amounts of money that it can manage. The hon. Members year in and year out’ fight for more money to go to their constituencies, I would like to urge them that as they debate next year’s Budget they should think of foregoing some of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) so that we can develop the tourism sector.


Miss Namugala: In short, Mr Speaker, I am merely saying that the capacity of the Government to contribute is what determines, at the end of the day, what it is able to contribute to the sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when ZAWA is going to respect the rule of law by taking suspected poachers to the courts of law, rather than shooting them on site like what happened recently in Nyimba Constituency.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Kankoyo should stay within the question. What he has brought in is outside the question.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, ZAWAs income is from three sources, one is donors, the Government and the other is direct revenue from hunting licences, sales, concessions, levies and so on and so forth. Can we have a bigger picture of how much of its own money ZAWA raises and how much it receives after it falls on its knees and begs?
Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, ZAWA does generate its own income. For ZAWA to be able to operate effectively, it requires a total of K97 billion every year. Currently, in addition to what ZAWA gets as Government intervention and from the donors, ZAWA is able to raise K33 billion as its contribution to its expenditure. So, obviously, there is a shortfall and we recognise that fact. This is why we are trying our best to improve the operations of ZAWA so that it can effectively attend to the needs of not just the tourism sector, but the national demands as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that has just been given by the hon. Minister, will she tell this House as to whether the objectives of ZAWA are being met with these levels of funding.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, yes, to some extent the objectives of ZAWA are being met especially the conservation of wildlife in the country. Of course, we accept and we have done that on record that there is need for us to improve the income generating capacity of ZAWA so that it is better able to support itself and hopefully depend less on donor funding as well as Government intervention.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if tourism in this country has been given priority. Has the Government put in a lot of money in this sector? How does it expect ZAWA to raise more money to contribute to the National Treasury as the country tries to diversify its economy as we are told?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, tourism is a focus sector in the diversification process that Government has embarked on. Wildlife is key to the tourism development of Zambia. As we do what we do to try and improve the wildlife sector, there are other activities within the economy that we are promoting which contribute to the sector so that the sector can ultimately contribute more to the gross domestic product (GDP) of the country. The approach that the Government is taking is holistic. We are doing marketing, the conservation of wildlife and also the protection of the environment as a whole so that our tourism sector which is nature based can be better sustained.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, indeed, the elephant population has increased, when will the Government lift the ban on elephant hunting so that the Government can generate more resources.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, to the contrary, the elephant population in this country is still below 30,000. We are very concerned that it is not growing at the rate we would like it to grow. In fact, the elephant is one of the most endangered species and I would like to ask the hon. Members of Parliament not to stop shooting gun.


Ms Namugala: Sorry, Mr Speaker, I would like to encourage the hon. Members of Parliament to help Government to sensitise the people in their communities about the dangers of poaching. I would like to say that we are not comfortable with the elephant population as at now.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, arising from what the hon. Minister answered when she suggested that hon. Members should consider foregoing part of their CDF so that it can go towards improving game parks. Is she really suggesting that the money that goes to ameliorate the lives of our people through development in the rural areas should instead be spent on animals so that in fact, the animals can enjoy life while our people suffer? Is she seriously suggesting that?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the fact that we must all come to terms with, is that Zambia’s economy is not growing at the rate that it can support the various needs of our people. So, what I was trying to demonstrate is the fact that we can only spend on the tourism sector to the level that our economy is able to sustain. Therefore, as a Member of Parliament myself of course, I would not like to forego the CDF to support tourism. However, the fact I want the hon. Members of Parliament to appreciate, is that Government does not deliberately hold resources back from any particular activity, but Government spends what it is able to spend for the activities that are to benefit our people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that the hon. Minster has given, I would like her to confirm that in fact ZAWA is able to stand on its own without any financial assistance looking at the revenue that it is able to collect if there was proper financial management. If that is the truth, what is the Government doing to ensure that they improve the financial status of ZAWA through proper financial management.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the reason for ZAWA’s inability to sustain itself is a combination of a lot of things. One of the reasons is that we need to review and amend the ZAWA Act which we are doing, but in addition to that, is lack of infrastructure in the national parks and game management areas. Most of the problems cannot be attended to overnight. The Government is currently attending to the need for infrastructure development in the national parks. We hope to achieve the levels we expect progressively. We are aware that if fully supported, ZAWA indeed can be able to stand and sustain itself.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, the ministry through ZAWA has collected a lot of ivory from poachers. Is Government considering selling that ivory and put the money into the fight against poaching, instead of burning it as is usually the case.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, Zambia is a party to what we call the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES). Under the CITES convention, there are parameters under which we are supposed to operate as a party to the convention. Zambia as a party to that convention, cannot just sell the trophies that it recovers either through poaching or indeed death by natural causes. We do have as I have stated in this House before quite a lot of ivory at Chilanga, but we cannot sell this ivory until we are able to assure the international community that we are protecting the elephants sufficiently so that we can justify the need for us to sell the ivory.

    At the moment, we are not able to justify that. However, we are doing what we can to ensure that we lobby the international community to support our efforts to protect elephants. The major challenge we have is poaching.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister why there is a trend of changing members of the ZAWA Board every time there is a new President and whether the recent change of members of this board has enhanced its financial capability.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister will endeavour to answer the latter part of the question.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to only answer the latter part of the question. As the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, I am very confident that the ZAWA Board that has now been put in place will deliver. With support from all of us, the current members of this board will not fail us. We have been able to give them terms of reference and I am confident that they will rise to the challenge and deliver to the expectations of the Zambian people.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, ZAWA has had difficulties in resettling the people that have been living in gazetted areas such as Sichifulo.  I would like to find out what measures the Government has put in place to safeguard the interests of the Zambians that may be caught in the expansion exercise of game parks.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I have stated on the Floor of this House before that what we do, through ZAWA, is to try to serve the people of Zambia. The management of game areas is done with the full contribution of local communities. The forty-six game management areas that we have are managed with the full knowledge and authority of traditional rulers.

Therefore, when people are removed from game management areas, it is done in full consultation with the local leadership. Furthermore, we try as much as possible to sensitise the settlers themselves about the fact that they are not supposed to be where they are settled. When we have to move them, as we have done in the case that the hon. Member has mentioned, we have done so with the help of traditional rulers. In most cases, chiefs will even find an alternative settlement area for the people to be removed from game management areas. So, as Government, whatever we do is in the interest of the Zambian people.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


140. Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) who the current members of the Zambia Tourism Board were; and

(b) what their terms of reference were.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Mr Speaker, the current members of the Zambia Tourism Board are:

(i) Mr Timothy T. Mushibwe (Chairperson);

(ii) Mr Teddy J. Kasonso (Director):

(iii) Mrs Josephine S. Mehl (Director);

(iv) Mrs Anne Sitali (Director);

(v) Mr Moola Milomo (Director);

(vi) Mr Matongo Matamwandi (Director):

(vii) Mr Martin Simwaka (Director):

(viii) Mrs Brenda Tambatamba (Director);

(ix) Mrs Silvia B. Mwansa (Director); and

(x) Ms Pamela Chibonga (Director).

Mr Speaker, their terms of reference are to:

(a) provide policy direction to institutions in relation to the promotion and marketing of tourism;

(b) promote Zambia as a tourist destination;

(c) design and implement suitable marketing strategies for the promotion of the tourism industry;

(d) formulate and implement measures designed to enhance the profile and image of Zambia as a preferred tourist destination;

(e) provide information services to tourists through the establishment and operation of tourist information offices.

(f) collect, evaluate and disseminate information regarding;

(i) tourism markets and market potential;
(ii)       trends in tourist activities, expectations and needs; and
(iii) competing tourism markets;

(g) conducting research into local and international tourism markets;

(h) provide tourists with travel services and information on;

(i) accommodation;
(ii) tourist destinations and facilities within Zambia; and
(iii) tourist attractions and services available to tourists in Zambia;

(i) subject to the approval of the hon. Minister, negotiate and enter into agreements or arrangements relating to tourism marketing and promotion or any other matter that will enhance tourist traffic within and into Zambia;

(j) promote, throughout Zambia, awareness on the importance and benefits of tourism and, in so doing, use such media or other means as are available to create maximum awareness of Zambia’s attractions;

(k) carry out market research to ensure the appropriate positioning of Zambia’s tourist attractions within the international and domestic markets; and

(l) do such other things as are necessary for the promotion of tourism and tourist welfare in Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, what criteria are used to appoint members to this board? I think this board is not doing very well because tourism in Zambia is not marketed at all.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the Tourism Act No. 24 of 2007 specifies who should sit on the Zambia Tourism Board. In terms of tourism marketing, it is not just the capacity of the individuals sitting on the board that determines the marketing of a country as a tourist destination. It also has to do with the capacity of the country to invest in the marketing of itself as a tourist destination. So, the lack of marketing for Zambia as a tourist destination has very little to do with the individuals who sit on the Zambia Tourism Board. It has, however, a lot to do with the capacity of Zambia to invest in the marketing of itself as a destination of choice.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kanyama?

Colonel Chanda: Sir, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker …

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a very serious point of order.

Mr Speaker, as you are aware Indeni Oil Refinery is a joint venture between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and Total International. The Government owns 50 per cent shares and Total International has 50 per cent shares. Sir, is this Government in order not to inform this House and the Zambians at large that Total International has pulled out of Indeni Oil Refinery and that the Government intends to buy the other 50 per cent shares?

Mr Speaker, I am referring to today’s Times of Zambia, a State newspaper, which I will lay on the Table. It reads as follows:

State eyes Total shares.

“The Government is negotiating with Total International to buy the company’s 50 per cent shares in Indeni Oil Refinery. The Ministry of Energy and Water Development Permanent Secretary, Peter Mumba has said”.

I go further:

“And the Government has said Total’s decision to sell its shares in Indeni Oil Refinery will not affect the supply of fuel because the Government took over the supply of crude oil from Total more than two years ago”.
“The Government and Total International are the joint owners of Indeni Oil Refinery with 50 per cent shares each. He said the pulling out of Total would not affect the bearing in the country’s energy sector”.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development in order to remain quiet without informing this House on the intentions of the Government to buy the 50 per cent shares and that Total has pulled out? I need your serious ruling on this matter and I lay the paper on the Table.

Mr D. Mwila laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The point of order that the hon. Minister for Chipili has raised is …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … that was not a deliberate slip of the tongue. It was a true slip of the tongue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Chipili has raised a point of order which is on the minds, I believe, of most hon. Members of Parliament here. As the House may recall, the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development, late last, week issued a ministerial statement on a current matter related to the scarcity or shortage of fuwel, fuel or fuer …


Mr Speaker: We use all those three pronunciations in this House. Whether it was inadvertent or not, he omitted to go further and alert this House regarding the on-going negotiations between the Republic of Zambia and Total International, concerning the possibility of the Government acquiring the balance 50 per cent of Total International’s shareholding in Indeni Oil Refinery. Under the circumstances, it will be necessary for the hon. Minister to come back to this House, during the course of this week, to apprise the House on exactly what is going on regarding the matters the hon. Members and others read in the media. The hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development must come back in the course of this week and brief the House fully on what is going on regarding this transaction. It is expected that this House should be informed of matters of national economic importance such as this one.

The hon. Member for Kwacha was raising a supplementary question on question. 140 on the Order Paper. May he continue?

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, going by the terms of reference that have been ably outlined by the hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, of all these terms of reference, which one has been achieved by the board.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, amongst the terms of reference that have been highlighted by the hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, one of the most critical terms that the board is working on and, hopefully, will achieve in the next few months, is to refocus Zambia’s marketing strategy and realign it so as to respond to the needs as well as deal with the threats in the environment.

Mr Speaker, the board of ZTB that has been put in place is a board that comprises men and women. I hope you have noted that there is a good balance of credible men and women. It is a board that will, again, deliver to the aspirations of the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, if, indeed, one of the terms of reference for the board is to market Zambia, what have the present and the previous boards done to rectify the problem where tourists from all over the world believe that the Victoria Falls is in Zimbabwe and yet it is in Zambia?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, it is not true that tourists all over the world believe that the Victoria Falls is in Zimbabwe. The Victoria Falls is a shared resource between Zambia and Zimbabwe. As Zambia, we market ourselves as a home for the Victoria Falls and Zimbabwe does the same. We have as much claim to the Victoria Falls as does Zimbabwe. Therefore, it is not true that the rest of the world believes that the Victoria Falls is in Zimbabwe.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, for the board to be able to meet all the functions that have been alluded to by the hon. Minister, what is actually required is that the hon. Minister must …

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Lukulu East is not entitled to assist the hon. Minister answer these questions. What is the question?

Mr Imenda: Is the board that has been appointed in a position to employ management which has been operating as a skeleton for quite sometime now?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, yes, the Zambia Tourism Board (ZTB) that is now in place, indeed, has been instructed to ensure that the organisational structure is organised in such a manner that it deals with what is required of it. The management of the ZTB is not in place yet, but we have advertised twenty-seven positions. It has been working as a skeleton, but we have already received applications in excess of 5,000 for the twenty-seven positions that were advertised.

Thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


141. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) how much money was lost in the tourism sector in Zambia due to the global economic crisis in 2008 and 2009;

(b) what the Government was doing to improve the tourism sector; and

(c) whether the Government was satisfied with the current levels of investment in the sector.

Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, the 2008 to 2010 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework Green Paper projected a decline in receipts in the tourism sector to be around 15 per cent which translates to US$30 million loss from the US$200 million projected for 2008. Therefore, the 2008 earnings of US$170 million were lower than the 2007 earnings of US$188 million.

Mr Speaker, as for 2009, the extent of the decline would only be known after the current survey on the impact of global economic crisis on tourism being conducted by the Bank of Zambia, Central Statistics Office and my ministry is completed. The survey is expected to be completed before the end of this year.

Mr Speaker, the Government has embarked on the following in order to improve the tourism sector:

Infrastructure Development in Tourism Areas

(i)  these include the construction and rehabilitation of roads to and around tourism areas such as Mosi-o-tunya, Kasaba Bay and Kafue National Park. Other developments include power supply, airports, water and sewerage and communication. The Kasaba Bay Airport is being designed to rehabilitate the extended runway while the Mbala/Kasaba Bay and the Chipata/Mfuwe roads are going to be attended to;

Development Planning

(ii) in order to facilitate investment, the Government is drawing up the Integrated Development and Area Action Plan for priorities areas in order to guide developments and make the land readily available. In this regard, the Government has advanced the drawing up of an integrated development plan for Kasaba Bay and the area action plan for Livingstone. The two plans are expected to be finalised by mid November, 2009. In addition, the Government has embarked on the exercise of drawing up management plans for some national parks, such as, Game Management Areas and heritage sites;

Licensing Reforms

(iii) the Government embarked on the business licensing reforms which led to the proposed review and amendment of the Tourism and Hospitality Act in order to reduce the cost of doing tourism business; and…

Hon. PF Member: Quality.

Mr Mwangala: Ulishani mwaiche wandi?


Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, the list continues.

Tourism and Investment Promotion

(iv)  the Government has intensified tourism and investment promotion through production of promotional materials such as brochures, digital versatile discs (DVDs), compact discs (CDs) and power point presentations. This promotional material is being produced in order to package tourist attractions and investment opportunities in Livingstone, Kafue National Park and Kasaba Bay area.

 Mr Speaker, the Government is not satisfied with the current levels of investment in the tourism sector, hence the measures mentioned above being put in place. The House may wish to note that the hotel rooms that are a backbone of the tourism industry are very limited. There are about 13,000 rooms in the whole country compared to some countries like Egypt, Sharm-el-Sheik, which in 2008 had 46,000 rooms.

I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned some of the projects which the Government intends to undertake like Kasaba Bay. Will the hon. Minister indicate how much the ministry intends to inject in this project?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has provided the scope of what the Government wants to do to improve the tourism sector in order to contribute more to the gross domestic product (GDP).

Mr Speaker, the Kasaba Bay is part of the Northern Circuit which includes the Luapula and Northern provinces. The Government has decided to focus on the development of the Kasaba Bay so that it anchors the development of the entire Northern Circuit.

In 2009, we have already put money into the development of the road between Mbala and the Kasaba Bay. We are also improving the Kasaba Bay Airport by extending the runway and providing a terminal.

Mr Speaker, in addition to that, the Government has also made arrangements to upgrade the Lunzuwa Power facility so that the Kasaba Bay can be developed as a project to develop the entire Northern Circuit.

Sir, in next year’s Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has proposed an increase in the allocation towards infrastructure development in the tourism sector and I hope that the hon. Members of Parliament will support his proposal.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, as a country, we are losing revenue from tourism because of an administrative malfunction in the Ministry of Tourism and Natural Resources, particularly, with regard to the issuance of licenses to tourism operators. Can the hon. Minister confirm that all the operators in Zambia have been issued with co-operating licenses and have paid for them?

Ms Namugala:  Mr Speaker, currently, Zambia has more than 900 accommodation facilities and I think that the hon. Member is talking about the issue of licensing. As a Government, we are undertaking what we are calling the Licensing Reforms to try and improve the business environment, not only in the tourism sector, but other sectors as well.

Sir, we have acknowledged that most of the establishments, while being registered with the Ministry of Tourism and Natural Resources, have not been given the actual certificates even though most of them have paid. The reason is that the Government is in the process of amalgamating most of the licenses so that we remain with only one license for the tourism industry and that our operators do not move from one place to another to obtain a license.

Mr Speaker, we are trying to improve the business environment for operators in the sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, on a number of occasions, we have seen foreign nationals, especially from the Western world, come into the Bangweulu region to take photographs of animals such as hippos, crocodiles and a number of bird species. They also camp on our nice sandy beaches.

Could the hon. Minister confirm whether those suspected tourists pay to come into our region?

Ms Namugala:  Mr Speaker, I am surprised that tourists can be referred to as “suspects”. I want to believe that the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) has officers in the Bangweulu Game Management Area (GMA) and Photographic tourism is one of the activities that contribute to the earnings of ZAWA. Unless the hon. Member has information to the contrary, these are tourists who bring the much needed dollar to Zambia and the Bangweulu, in particular.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, there is a perception that Zambia is the most expensive and difficult tourist destination to market in the world. If that is so, can the hon. Minister shade light on why this is so?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, tourism is one of the fastest growing sectors in the world and currently employs more than 230 million people. In Zambia, the sector has been growing too. It is, however, not true to say that, globally, Zambia is perceived as an expensive destination. However, it is true to say that Zambia is not adequately marketed. As for its competitiveness in the region, there may be other areas that may be better as destinations in terms of services such as communication.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Ministers for Finance and National Planning and Transport and Communication have repeatedly said that the cost of doing business in this country is high. For instance, it is very expensive to make a phone call from Zambia to Europe. All those things, when put together, do not help to make Zambia be perceived as the most competitive destination. However, it is not true to say that it is the most expensive tourist destination.

Mr Speaker, Zambia needs marketing. We need to invest more money in marketing our country. If you went to America, today, you would find that on average, eighteen out of twenty Americans would not even know where Zambia is on the map. That is the challenge that we must deal with.


Ms Namugala: We must spend money on marketing Zambia. In order for us to spend that money, we need to develop, as a country, and at personal level so that we save. We need to work harder. Currently, Zambians are not working hard as they should so that, together, we can grow the economy.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, the loss in revenue that the hon. Minister disclosed to this House is worrying. I would like to find out whether we can hope for a better picture from 2009 and the years afterwards.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the answer is yes. This is because the Government is committed to improving the lives of the Zambian people. We will do so by diversifying the economy.

Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s Budget Speech for 2010, he has announced that a tourism levy will be introduced to contribute to the marketing of Zambia as a tourist destination of choice.

Mr Speaker, I have said it and will say it again, we need to invest more money in marketing. Zambia must be known because only then will it attract tourists and with this, we shall attract both domestic and foreign investment in the sector in terms of accommodation establishments.

We are hopeful, as a Government, that as we move forward, tourism will contribute more to the National Treasury than it has done in the past.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I recognise the efforts that the Government is taking to diversify through tourism. I also notice that the Northern Circuit as a project is good enough to help create employment and grow the economy, but that is a long-term project.

Next year, 2010, the World Cup will be held just next door in South Africa, but I have not seen the Government do enough in the tourism sector to ensure that we benefit, as a country. Can the hon. Minister help me appreciate the efforts that the Government is making towards the 2010 World Cup which will be held in the next few months?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the Government is doing enough to ensure that it takes advantage of the opportunities that the 2010 World Cup provides. This morning, I issued a statement to the effect that Zambia has been allocated space at the 2010 World Cup activities in South Africa. We are taking advantage of this to promote ourselves, as a destination.

In addition to this, within the region, we are working with countries like Botswana and Namibia to promote our countries as destinations beyond the 2010 World Cup in South Africa. We hope that as people come from the emerging or non-traditional markets, they will not just end in South Africa, but go beyond because they would like to see the Victoria Falls. They may decide to go to Mfuwe National Park and see the Luangwa or South Luangwa National parks. We are working very hard to ensure that we take advantage of the 2010 World Cup, as a country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central):  Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell this House and the nation, at large, what the envisaged level of investment in tourism by both international and local investors is and how much of that investment is expected to come from the locals.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is one of those who have shown interest in investing in this sector and I would like to encourage him to do so hopefully, in partnership with larger organisations.

Sir, the tourism sector is dominated by micro, small and medium enterprises (SMEs).  Currently, we can count just on two hands and two feet the number of hotels that we have in the country. The rest in the tourism sector are small-scale operators. As the hon. Deputy Minister said earlier, we need to increase the bed and room capacity that currently stands at less than 20,000. We hope that with the marketing that we are going to embark on, we will attract enough foreign and domestic investors in the sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Lusaka Central has been indicating, but I cannot see him now. I think he has given up.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East):  Mr Speaker, on one hand, the hon. Minister said that the Victoria Falls is well-known in the world and on the other hand she is saying that out of ten people in the United States of America only eight know the existence of Zambia. Is that not a contradiction?

Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I stand by my earlier statement that Zambia is not well-known as a tourist destination and yet Zambia, by those who know, is the home of the Victoria Falls.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, as we endeavour to market Zambia as the Real Africa and a tourist destination, is the Government aware that most of these tourists that come into this country do not make payments in this country, but from their countries of origin. When they get here, they just buy ice cream or pay US$3 to see the Victoria Falls. If the Government is aware, what mechanism has been put in place to ensure that tourists leave the much-needed foreign exchange in this country?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, indeed, there has been a perception that tourists who come into this country just leave footprints. It is not true. We have been talking about what tourism has been contributing to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This is as a result of the money being spent in the country. Currently, it is estimated that every tourist who comes to Zambia spends about US$250 or US$1,200 per day and their length of stay is about four days.

I would like to state that for as long as we do not have linkages with operators or Zambians setting up base in markets outside this country, tourists who come into this country, will have their packages arranged outside the country. They will pay for some of the costs in those countries. The answer to the development of tourism in this country is to promote it extensively so that we can attract more tourists.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources tell this august House what measures the Government is putting in place to arrest the high crime rate in Livingstone where tourists are being robbed day and night. What practical measures is the Government taking to restrain thieves from stealing from tourists?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, like I have said before, sometimes we are our own worst enemies.


Ms  Namugala: An exaggerated statements like that one  …


Ms Namugala: … does not promote tourism. As a Government, we have taken a cross-departmental approach to the development of tourism. We are working with the Department of Immigration and Zambia Police Service to sensitise the people on the need for us not to just be friendly, but also reduce the hassle that tourists go through. If there have been incidences like the one the hon. Member is referring to, I am sure that the police have adequately dealt with them, but let us not alarm potential tourists that this is the situation in this country. That is an exaggeration.

I thank you, Sir.





(Debate resumed)

Mr E. C. Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, when the House adjourned last Friday, I was talking about the education support and the funding that has been allocated to the ministry by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. I was saying that this is a step in the right direction as it has good impact on health because an educated public or populace is good for a country. It also helps in keeping people healthy as well.

Sir, I now come to the Ministry of Health and I will say only a few points concerning this ministry. It is good to hear, once again, that we are going back to the system that existed when I was still in the Ministry of Health which is funding the districts directly. That is a very good programme because it reduces the amount of money that stays in the Ministry of Health which can easily be misused as the case is in the Ministry of Health. 

Secondly, it is the local people in districts who know the disease burdens that affect them in their localities. The local people are able to plan better for the health of the people in their areas because they understand their areas better. I think, this is a right programme and I am encouraging the hon. Minister to go flat out and ensure that we take health facilities to our people. There was a programme that in every 5 kilometers, there should be a health post so that our people can have access to these very needful facilities. At the health post level, we expect programmes for prevention to take place because that way, we will be dealing or nipping in the bag with diseases that lead people to hospitals. In so doing, we will be reducing the need for drugs in the big hospitals. Prevention has always been better than cure.

Sir, let me say a bit about the road infrastructure, with particular bias to what is in the area where I come from, which is Luapula Province. I had gone to Mansa over the weekend and saw that there has been a lot of patching going on, especially, on the Tuta Road. There are still a lot of problems when one starts off from Mansa going towards Chembe. I think the hon. Minister needs to do a quick work there before the rains start otherwise, we are going to lose that road. It is a serious problem.

Most importantly, hon. Minister, and if you want to have an impact in my constituency, I would tell you that you need to work on the Mutondo Cause Way. This is a road from Samfya going through Lubwe, Kasaba into Luwingu. The people of my constituency will not listen to anything other than putting that embankment back to what it was before Independence so that people can cross into the Northern Province the way they used to. If you do not do that, hon. Minister, you are making my work easier in showing that that Government does not work. 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Mwansa: If you do that, you make it a little more difficult for me. Therefore, I would encourage you to work on that road and I will know what to do when the time comes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Mwansa: Mr Speaker, there is another problem and I need to mention this very quickly. I have noticed that the optic fibre is going into each and every province except for Luapula Province. I want to tell the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport that if we do not see you digging in our province, do not even campaign there. We are as part of this country as any other province in this country. Therefore, I want to see that we begin to lay the optic fibre in Luapula Province. Do not leave Luapula Province out and expect something to happen there. I am giving you free advice and you should take it or leave it. As I said before, I mean well, but if you do not listen, do not blame us. You will need to begin to do what you are doing everywhere if you want Luapula to come on board.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by saying that you should increase the tax base...

Professor Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am very grateful for granting me this opportunity to raise a point of order. I apologise to the hon. Member for Chifunabuli who has been debating so well.

Sir, I would like to raise a point of order on a statement that he has just made. Is he in order to make reference to the optic fibre backbone infrastructure development programme which is currently going on in the country? It is true that optic fibre is going to transform our communication industry in the country and also transform the way we do business in the country.

Mr Speaker, it is not only the trenches …

Mr Speaker: Order! What is the point of order?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to misinform the nation that optic fibre can only be accessed through underground trenches when, in fact, we have a programme of transmitting optic fibre through power lines. Wherever power lines are people will be able to access optic fibre through Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO)  and other power companies. Luapula Province has a greater opportunity for power transmission. Is he in order to misinform the nation that way?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister of Communications and Transport has raised an informational point of order with regards to the debate of the hon. Member for Chifunabuli.

May the hon. Member for Chifunabuli continue.

Mr E. C. Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I only want to tell the hon. Minister that where he is digging, there are also power lines. Therefore, he should do the same for Luapula Province and not a different thing.

Sir, lastly, I want to say that this Government needs to broaden the tax base. There is too much burden on a few people sustaining this country. We cannot have 50 per cent of the Budget coming from a few workers in this country. The informal sector must be tackled as quickly as possible.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, may I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of this august House.

Mr Speaker, I would be failing in my duties as an hon. Member of Parliament for Sinazongwe if I did not congratulate the people of Kasiya Ward in Livingstone …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: … on having thrashed …


Mr Muyanda: … the MMD Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, the people of Katondwe Ward in Feira did a wonderful job.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: I wish to congratulate them on that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: To the people of Samutamba, in Mwinilung’a - pronounced correctly, in the North-Western Province, …


Mr Muyanda: … job well done.


Mr Speaker: Order!

That is not the correct pronunciation.


The hon. Member will pronounce it properly.


Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the correction.

Mr Speaker, there is no better time than now to congratulate the dear children of Kabanda Ward in Itezhi-tezhi, on the gallant fight they put up to win the election.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: The PF/UPND Pact, who are great children of Zambia, did a wonderful job.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, it would be a serious oversight if I did not mention the great people of Kasama in the Northern Province …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: …for the marvelous job they did …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: …so that the pact could retain the seat which genuinely belongs to them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I thank the people of the Republic of Zambia for writing clearly on the wall that a new Government is in the offing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: I appeal to you, my colleagues, to brace yourselves for this.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: For those of you who are in doubt that a new budget writing system is coming, we politely and nicely request you to dissolve Parliament if you think that you are not ready for elections.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, we are ready to go for an election even tomorrow.

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: The UPND/PF Pact is forming a Government that will redeem the Zambians from suffering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Who is your president?


Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, in some parts of Zambia, as the budget …

Mr Speaker: Order!

This raises quite a lot of catcalls across the isle. May the hon. Member now deal with the motion on the Floor.


Mr Muyanda: I thank you, Sir. Much obliged for your good guidance as usual.

Mr Speaker, the people of Shang’ombo are now living on green mangoes. This budget is not known to them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, as I move onto the budget, I put a clear challenge to my colleagues here who are trying to discourage us, Back Benchers, from our three major responsibilities. One of our responsibilities is that of oversight. It is our constitutional responsibility, as Back Benchers, to oversee how the budget is structured and how the resources will be utilised.

Mr Speaker, within the context of this budget, I wish to ask this Government how many jobs will be created for Grade 12 school leavers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Give me an answer today even though I know that you will not give me one. What is in the budget is merely payment of wages and salaries.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Where else can you find a budget such as this? The principal concern is to combat unemployment. Look at the youths who are offloaded from secondary schools, colleges and universities. Show me a budget line where you have absorbed them. Show us. This is why we have given you the challenge to dissolve Parliament so that we go for an election.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: The PF/UPND Pact can take you on squarely.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: We will form a Government that takes care of the children. You cannot be offloading school children without …

Ms Siliya: Who is your president?

Mr Muyanda: You are a new comer, you only came yesterday.


Mr Speaker: Order!

That is exactly why you should address the Chair in order to avoid that kind of distraction.

You may continue, please.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Sir, for eight years we have been making good laws …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: …as Back Benchers and guiding the Executive. We are helping those who are refusing to look after public resources. There is plunder of public resources. Does this budget provide for the control of public resources? No, there is no provision for mechanisms of controlling how this money will be disbursed. You show me the budget line where there is this provision. There is nothing. I can read the budget, I am not blind.

Mr Speaker, there is a very serious omission in this budget. The critical question is who will look after the resources in this budget? Public theft is the order of the day. What mechanism has this budget provided for restraining the pen pusher who is committing white collar crimes that have escalated?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Give us an answer within the context of this budget.

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the policy of this Government is on the recruitment of public employees. The Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings, (ZCCM-IH) has never advertised any vacancies for jobs. The Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is short of a director general at the moment. Why is the Government not advertising the vacancies for these positions so that across the country, competent people can apply without biasness?

Mr Speaker, we have never seen any adverts for vacancies in the National Airports Corporation. You are just slotting in party cadres. There is chaos at the moment at the Mamba Collieries because the job of the managing director was not publicly advertised so that a competent and qualified person could secure the job of running that mine. A mine needs a technically-qualified person. One must either be a mining engineer, metallurgist or someone from the pond of technically-skilled people. We have noted, with serious dismay, that, in this Government, some people hand in their curriculum vitaes after securing jobs, just because they are party cadres.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: They advertise their qualifications by word of mouth. They cannot do that. You are calling in those in the Diaspora to come back all the way from America, and yet you are not providing the jobs.  You must advertise vacancies in the international press for those young men …

Mrs Musokotwane: And women.

Mr Muyanda: … and women, who have amassed good skills, to come back home. Let them come back home and compete for these jobs. Do not employ cadres with absolutely irrelevant qualifications. This is what we call putting a square peg in a round hole.


Mr Muyanda: It can never fit in. 
Mr Speaker, when we criticise the Government, we do it in good faith because of the levels of poverty in this country. There is nothing good I can say about this Government. An hon. Colleague, whose name I will not mention, criticised the Back Benchers.

Mr Speaker, for example, Maamba Collieries Limited employees, in Sinazongwe, have not been paid to date. They have gone for six to seven months without salaries, yet this Government wants us to keep quiet.  Who would work under such slave arrangements? You cannot do that. Even a slave has a wage which is to eat and be whipped. Why are you enslaving your own people?


Mr Muyanda: What type of Government is this? We shall not support you. We, therefore, want to firmly warn you that as soon as the PF/UPND Pact moves in, we shall have those who have taken public jobs fraudulently…

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda:…and false pretence arrested.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, let us invite our young men and women who have acquired skills from foreign countries and give them fair job opportunities and not what you are doing.

Mr Speaker, it is the burden of  any responsible government to make a crystal clear budget line by stating, for instance, that this year, we shall have 10,000 jobs. The budget must be specific. At the moment there is no deliberate policy in this regard.

Sir, recruitment in the Civil Service is supposed to be done publicly. This Government does not have any policy within the budget on how civil servants should be employed. Civil Service is a career and all Zambians wishing to the Civil Service must sit for one Civil Service examination, and yet I have never heard of an advert for recruitment in to the Civil Service. I have never heard of one. They are slotting in party cadres, relatives and so and so forth. How can the UPND/PF Pact tolerate such type of social injustice?

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: You think we are going to give up? We are taking over Government. It is a challenge.

 Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: We want to challenge you to dissolve Parliament.  If you are ready, go ahead and dissolve Parliament tomorrow.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Speaker, we are appealing to you to dissolve Parliament tomorrow because we are ready for any elections.


Mr Muyanda:  Yes! We will take you on and you will lose as early as 1000 hours.


Mr Speaker, the people of Liuwa are not represented.


Mr Muyanda: At the moment, they are eating green mangoes. 

Mr Imasiku: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member who is debating so badly in order to bring Liuwa, which is well represented by a party which has a President, into his debate when his party has no president because the chilangalinga has two heads. Is he in order to bring Liuwa into his debate?  I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training has raised a point of order on the hon. Member for Sinazongwe at the point the hon. Member for Sinazongwe was saying Liuwa is not represented.


Mr Speaker: Order!

That point of order was for the hon. Member for Liuwa who is declaring territory that he is representing, Liuwa, even though he also works in the position of Deputy Minster.

May the hon. may for Sinazongwe continue, please.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance. I will have to organise food to send to the people of Liuwa so that they stop eating green mangoes which are not yet ripe.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, This is a very serious debate.

Sir, from today onwards, this Government must start advertising jobs for the following public institutions because they were created using tax payers’ money. Therefore, we want transparency to prevail when public jobs are being secured.

Sir, if you are a director at the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mine Investment- Holdings (ZCCM-IH), you should remember that the pact is coming. If the MMD Government fails to reorganise ZCCM-IH, the pact will restructure it.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, in Maamba Collieries, Zambia Railways and the National Housing Authority …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: … we shall throw out people who were hand picked and put in people who are competent.

Sir, the jobs of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation will be advertised publicly …

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Chair is doing all it can to accommodate the hon. Member for Sinazongwe in his debate on the budget, but the Chair will not allow him to threaten …


Mr Speaker: … the positions of individuals who cannot defend their positions in this House.

You may continue and leave the threats out of your debates.

You may continue, please.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, much obliged and I thank you for your guidance.

Sir, having said that, I would like to emphasise that recruitment in the Civil Service will be very professional.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear

Mr Muyanda: It will be always in the budget line when we want to recruit young civil servants; men and women, they will be a big and huge press advert. There will be no back door employment like it is happening at the moment. We want fair play and justice to all the people of the Republic of Zambia. All the people in parastatal organisations must remember that the pact is coming. If you went through a dubious process of employment, we shall remove you.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, before I give my brief debate on the motion on the Floor, I would like to thank all Zambians who have seen the strength, honesty and integrity of the pact.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chota: Mr Speaker, all those Zambians are giving a warning to the Ruling Party that they are on their way out.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Question!

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo mudala!

Mr Chota: Sir, works on the Kasama/Luwingu and Luwingu/Mansa roads started seventeen years ago, but nothing has happened. At one time, some MMD members looted the K2 billion which was allocated for that project. This happened about eleven to twelve years ago, and yet these people have gone scot free.

   We are under the rule of the MMD Government where looters are accepted. Please, we need that road in Northern Province from Kasama to Luwingu.

Sir, the average price of copper was around $4,900 per metric tonne over a period of five years. What I mean is, spot sales in the world including on the London Metal Exchange, have become steady on the average at $4,900 per metric tonne. However, we were told that when the price of copper went down, it collapsed to $2,811 per metric tonne on the London Metal Exchange. Further, when the mining companies produce, the break even price per metric tonne of copper is $2,100 per metric tonnes. Therefore, this means that even if the price of copper went down to $2,811, the mining companies were still able to break even and make a profit.

Sir, considering the average price of copper per metric tonne and the break even price of $2,100 which was above 100 per cent per metric tonne, the mining companies still made a profit and they took the money that they made out of this country. Trillions of Kwacha went out of this country. I do not know why we have not put people in place to check how these mining companies are working. This has also led to people stealing tonnes and tonnes of concentrates which they hide. When they are arrested, they just run away from these companies and join different ones. Who is facilitating the running away of these people?

Mr Speaker, the development agreements provide for relief, expansion and growth of these mines up to the end of the mine’s life. These mining companies are given a tax relief whenever there is an extension or any development to the mine or the bringing in of capital equipment. They are not taxed until the end of the mine life. They thus enjoy tax relief from the Government. For example, if they buy a Caterpillar, they are going to enjoy tax relief. If they buy a bigger shovel, they are going to get tax relief. That is what is happening to the companies in engaged in the mining of copper, cobalt and other minerals.

Sir, recently, the Government agreed to give a tax rebate of US $9.8 million in mineral resource tax to China Non-ferrous Metal Mining Group in Luanshya. This was over the acquisition of Luanshya Copper Mines (LCM). This amount is going to be deducted …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I request you to register your presence now. Those who are coming in will not know what we have done so, leave them in the dark.

This is just to inform the late comers that something has happened and you will know when you see something happening later on.

Mr Chota: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that the China Non-ferrous Metal Mining Group was given a rebate of about US $10 million after it acquired the LCM. This money will be deducted from the contract bid of US $50 million. Some experts have said the value of transfer should have been around US $100 million.

Mr Speaker, sometimes I wonder where we are going. If you are a manager and you cannot manage whatever it is properly, nothing happens. These are very important issues which the Government should take into consideration, but they are not doing so. What is happening is that some people are talking about others being jealous of them associating with thieves and looters. On petrol, we do not know why there is a shortage and since there is nobody leading us, nobody knows what has gone wrong.

Mr Speaker, the other day we found a Kagem Mining Ltd guard being stripped to the bone because he was suspected of having stolen emeralds and these chaps know because they will go to their areas…

Mr Speaker: Order! Withdraw the word chaps.

Mr Chota: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word chaps. The owners of the Kagem Mining Ltd know the value of the emeralds, but our Government does not know and so this money is going out of the country. This brings me to the question of leadership. Are we failing to manage the affairs of our won country? We seem not to know where we are going, are we blind? Who are our planners? Why should we manage situations when they reach the crisis stage year in year out? Why should we have a shortage of fuel year in year out? What are the planners doing? Some people are saying we should not be alarmed by the shortage, but if you go to any filling station, you will find queues, but no petrol.

Mr Speaker, it is estimated that the production of copper will increase to 662 metric tonnes in 2009. In fact the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) reports that production will be as high as 673 metric tons for 2009 and this will be more than US$6,000. Imagine what kind of money Zambia would have earned if the windfall tax was in place. At the moment the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) cannot even do a urine test because they do not have reagents. The UTH will just ask you to go to a private clinic.

The on the spot sales per tonne are worth US$6,000 on the London Metal Exchange and for future contracts, the mining companies will earn more than that. It might even be around US$10,000 per metric tonne. The figures I am giving show that Zambia is likely to run a balance of payment surplus in 2009 and 2010 and most of these figures are based on daily predictions and contango arrangements.

Mr Speaker, we are losing trillions of Kwacha because of our own laxity. The investors know that and as a result they are taking a lot from this country. I am pleading with the Government to reinstate the windfall tax.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to discuss the Budget that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Let me take this opportunity to congratulate my new neighbour Hon. Mwamba on winning the Kasama Central by-election…

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Simuusa: … under the PF/UPND pact, the Government in waiting.

Mr Speaker, in starting my debate, I wish to comment on the picture that Hon. Mabenga referred to in his contribution to the debate and I wish to advise the Government that it should not be embarrassing the nation. This Budget is a national document in which we are putting foward what we want to do as a country. By insensitively putting a picture of a Chinese man dancing with our dance troupe when we have more than one cooperating partner is not good. We have the Chinese, the Norwegians, the Japanese and other nationals and so I request the Government to be more sensitive when dealing with such issues to avoid embarrassing us.

Mr Speaker, I was very disappointed with the Budget that was presented and I wish to describe it as a failed fireworks display. By this, I am saying that this Budget is the second last budget that this Government is going to present and it will be the last budget that they are going to execute because the next budget will be in the election year and it will be executed by the PF/UPND Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, this is like a final lap and I expected the Government to show us what substance they are made of. What normally happens is that when you are in your last lap, you show people what you have and what you can do. I was very disappointed to find that the budget that was presented was not different from the usual ones. There is nothing in it to inspire the people and also to show what the Government would like to achieve and where we are going as a country. That really disappointed me because my expectations were not met. I know that the expectations of many Zambians were equally not met and that is why I described it as a failed fireworks display where you go with a lot of expectations but you just see one or two pops and its over. Then you start to ask whether that was it or there is the main display later on.

Mr Speaker, those are indications that this Government has run out of ideas because in this Budget I expected to see a very clear direction for this country.

Mr Speaker, briefly, I will comment on the three macro economic targets that were set being inflation to be maintained at 8 percent or less, domestic borrowing to be limited to 2 percent and growth to be greater than 5 percent. Again I am very disappointed at these targets. Last year I contributed to the debate and asked why this Government ignores the economic climate that is prevailing by setting targets in the opposite direction. I remember saying that with the budget targets that we have put, the budget will not fly because the indicators are going one way and the set targets the other way and the people who write the budget ignore signs that show where the economic climate is going. Then they go the other way. I realised that the Government actually wants to paint this rosy picture that they can perform wonders so that people do not judge them harshly. Six months down the line, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning stood up on the Floor of this House and admitted that they had problems with the Budget and that we under collected by 30 per cent which was about K1.7 trillion. That was because we ignored the economic climate that was prevailing at that time. Looking at these targets. We have done it again because our target is 8 per cent inflation but, currently, it is at 12 per cent.

Mr Speaker, two months ago, ZESCO increased its tariffs by about 60 per cent and then the hon. Minister also announced that the excise duty on diesel would go up from 7 per cent to 10 per cent. That is a 3 per cent increase, meaning that the price of fuel will go up and we all know that fuel and electricity are the basic ingredients in the production costs. So, even the cost of food items and all other issues shall go up and inflation is also likely to go up. It will not go down and yet, we have put a target of 8 per cent. Again, this will not fly away but, again, we have ignored it. We have achieved an average Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth of about 4 per cent. Now, we are calling for more than 5 per cent. How are we going to achieve that?

Mr Kambwili: Very unrealistic.

Mr Simuusa: Very unrealistic.

Mr Speaker, I would like to concur with what Hon. Sejani said that we need to be creative. Those are the things I was looking for. We should be able to think outside the box. How are we going to achieve it? From the research, we already know that for us to achieve any reduction in poverty, our GDP growth rate has to be between 7 and 10 per cent. Now, I have not seen any reference to that, where we have to be creative and what we need to do to get to those levels. Already, we are projecting with no indications of how we are going to achieve the projections.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about domestic borrowing. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning put in 2 per cent of domestic borrowing. Now, the people and the Members of Parliament have lamented the high interest rates of borrowing money in this country. For example, when the Government is borrowing from the local institutions, banks and other financial institutions, it means that a business person or me, if I am to borrow, am competing with the Government and, as a result, you will find that those financial institutions will not even care to reduce the interest rates because they know that Government is going to pay back. Therefore, I would like to suggest to the Minister of Finance and National Planning to see to it that domestic borrowing is reduced to 1 or 0 per cent. Let us make use of those concessional monies that have been made available like the special drawing rights of US $392 million. Those drawing rights, we can use and by doing that, actually, we will be bringing money into the economy because they ought to be for capital projects and infrastructure which will trickle down to all the contractors and the people. In that way, the economy will grow. I wish the hon. Minister would take note of that.

Mr Speaker, I would like to suggest the other targets that should be added to the Budget because, as a nation, we should change the arrangement of the Budget. One of them is employment or unemployment. You can choose whichever term you want to use. The Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development stands up and says they are doing very well as a Government and that they are creating jobs. The question is: How many jobs have they created? We do not have those figures. I have been looking at the unemployment rate on the Copperbelt and one can give me information if it is there. There is no data and Central Statistical Office cannot give me that data and that is a very serious omission. Therefore, I would like to request the Government to include the indicator of unemployment or employment - whichever term they prefer - in the Budget so that we are able to follow carefully and know how effective we are as a Government.

Mr Speaker, another target that I referred to that should be there is the Vision 2030. This is our yardstick and this is what we are following as a nation. In the targets, we should have benchmarks which we should put and say as a nation this year, this is what we want to achieve. Then, we will know where we are going as a country.

Mr Speaker, when I look at this budget and because of lack of these parameters and indicators, I just come to one conclusion, which is that the Government does not want to be held accountable because there are no figures in there. When I look at the budget, at the end of the year, I will not be able to say that hon. Minster, this referred to this and so on because there are, indeed, no targets. That is what I found worrying and disappointing with mining, which I will talk about in ending my debate.

Mr Speaker, I was disappointed with mining because there is no direct impact or, rather, nothing was said of substance and yet, whether you like it or not, mining still remains the largest contributor to this economy. What I expected from the hon. Minister was to tell us that this is the revenue we expect. We have said before that we want the windfall tax, but the hon. Minister said he will not put it in. He is insisting on variable profit tax. What I expect to see is that he tells us that from variable profit tax, this is the revenue we expect and this revenue will go into our coffers so that we are able to get so much that was not there. It means we do not know what we are doing as a nation and that makes me very sad because we have failed to translate value from the resources that we have been given. That is one of the biggest issues that the Zambian people have against this Government. In fact, as a Government, you have failed to translate the natural resources that God has given us into tangible benefits for the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, in debating the mining sector and converting the wealth, I just wish to remind the Government and people of Zambia, how wealthy we are as a nation, and how much God has blessed us with mineral wealth.

Mr Speaker, I will start with copper. In Zambia, we throw away 1 per cent contained copper and that is our cut-off grade. We are mining copper in the range of 5, 6, 10 and 30 per cent, but we throw away 1 per cent. When you go to other countries such as those in America, you will find 0.2 per cent contained copper, and they are dancing with that copper. Here, we throw that away.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about cobalt which is even mined in Nchanga Constituency which is my constituency. We have one of the richest ore bodies of cobalt. In those days, when I was working at Nchanga Open Pit, the Chinese, Japanese and other nationalities from all over the world used to come and buy cobalt. They used to pay for cobalt years in advance. Even before it was mined, it was already paid for just because it is so rare and there is no other country where you could have got it except, maybe, Congo but that time, they were so disorganised.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about coal. This country is so blessed. I am talking about mineral resources and I just want to remind the Government how wealthy we are and to show that Zambia, indeed, has been blessed by God in such a mighty way. The coal that is in this country is one of the richest and you will not find it anywhere in the world. They are talking about 5 to 7 per cent. It is not a secret. I ran Maamba Collieries for three years before I joined politics. While we were there, I remember production changed. Production went up to the levels of the early days. We used to mine 30,000 or 40,000 tonnes per month. At that figure, we could not even meet the local target or market demand. At that time, we used to have people coming from China, Japan, the United Kingdom, Europe and all over the world looking for coal. Each country used to ask for 50,000 tonnes a month and I used to laugh. I would ask myself where all that coal would be mined. Why was this so? It was because there was no other place they could get it except Zambia. God put it in the Zambezi Valley and we can mine it for over 100 years. God has given us that coal. It is such a valuable resource and no other country has it except us here or, maybe, Zimbabwe.

Mr Speaker, I will talk about gemstones which my friend has already talked about. The gemstones we have in Zambia, again, are very rare to find. They are found once in a long time. The way an emerald is formed is so rare. I will give you an example of how it is formed. An emerald is formed when the centre of the earth, we are told, is molten lava, and has to find a crack where that lava can come through. As it comes through the crack, it has to be moving at the correct speed and cooling at the right temperature to form those crystals. It also has to have the right pressure to form those crystals. Further, it should find a chemical called chlorite for it to form that green colour. Now, all those conditions have to be fulfilled for an emerald to be formed and the chance is only one in a million. The only place where all those geological conditions were made for a gemstone or an emerald to form, was in Zambia in the whole wide world. The only other places may be Brazil or Columbia, but what you call Grade A emeralds are only found in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, we are talking about wealth that is incomparable with other countries. Looking at the wealth we have in terms of natural resources, we should be among the top ten richest countries in this world. However, we are among the poorest countries in the world. In terms of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), we are at number 110 out of 161 countries. There is something seriously wrong.

Mr Speaker, it is not a secret that before I joined politics, I worked for the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM). I learnt a lot of things out there regarding gemstones. While at ZCCM, I was assigned to open an emerald mine for the Government. In carrying out this assignment, I was privileged, one afternoon, to attend an auction at Pamodzi Hotel on emeralds. I witnessed with, my own eyes, US $3 million worth of emeralds bought in one afternoon. We had sheiks from all over the world. We had Indians and many other nationalities.

We had displayed emeralds on a few tables and after the bidding, US $3 million was raised in one afternoon. I witnessed one man bid US $300,000 for a grade A emerald from Zambia. It was just a small piece like this (holding up his thumb). I asked myself why someone would pay US $300,000 for a small piece of stone. The answer is that this mineral is so rare. It cannot be found anywhere else in the world except here in Zambia. Our friends from other parts of the world also believe that since this stone is so rare, it has some kind of spiritual energy. A person who wears it exudes spiritual energy.


Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, if that is true, can you imagine how much spiritual energy is coming out of this country?


Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: This means that we are so blessed as a country. When we compare ourselves with other countries that have mineral resources such as Chile, Brazil and Colombia, we are far behind in terms of development. Like I said, in terms of GDP we are at number 110 in the world. This means that the Government has failed to translate this mineral wealth that God has given us into money in people’s pockets so that they can have improved standards of living.

Mr Speaker, this is why I would like to give my friends on your right some advice. What I have just stated above is what is going to make the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) lose the Solwezi Central seat. Let me just elaborate a little more. When the Lumwana and Kansanshi mines were opened in Solwezi, people were very excited. They thought that, at last, their poverty was going to be alleviated and, therefore, they went in masses to vote for the Ruling Party.

After the Lumwana and Kansanshi mines started working, the people realised that were still in poverty and struggling to eat one meal a day. The mines are producing and selling copper but the people have remained in poverty and they have said that they are not benefiting from these resources that God has given them. Thus, they have said that enough is enough. Their frustrations can be seen in the voting patterns in the recent Local Government elections in North-Western Province. They feel that the Government has failed to translate the natural resources that they have been endowed with into wealth in their pockets.

I would like to quote some of the results in the elections of councillors in this province. In Mwinilunga East, which was mentioned by one of my hon. colleagues and where Hon. Muchima is the hon. Member of Parliament, the Patriotic Front-United Party for National Development (PF-UPND) Pact got 829 votes while the MMD had 239 votes. This is in North-Western Province, which is supposed to be a stronghold of the MMD. In Kanena, which is in Hon. Taima’s constituency, the PF-UPND Pact had 329 votes compared to the MMD’s 129 votes. In a polling station called Kikasa, the MMD got zero votes …


Mr Simuusa: … and the PF-UPND Pact got forty votes. This is in an MMD constituency and, therefore, this is very serious.

Hon. PF Members: Abaleya.

Mr Simuusa: I even asked myself where the MMD officials in this constituency were because it seems they had run away.


Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, this is a very serious message the electorate is sending to the Ruling Party. We are not just politicking and I am giving free advice to the Government. We are talking about an issue that is very close to the heart of Zambians. The biggest issue Zambians have against the Government is that it has failed to translate the wealth that God has given to this nation into our pockets and, therefore, the MMD is going to lose Solwezi Central unless it can work out a miracle between now and 19th November, 2009. I, however, doubt if this can happen. With a budget like this (holding up the Budget Speech) which has no clear direction and does not translate natural resources into wealth in people’s pockets, there is no miracle I am expecting and I would wish that my friends take this timely advice seriously. After 19th November, 2009 and 2011, I think my friends will agree with me that this is one big issue the Zambians have against the MMD Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to this important debate. I would like to start by stating that Zambians, especially those in Kantanshi Constituency who have contributed so much to the income of this country, were waiting patiently for the National Budget. They wanted to see how the 2010 Budget would affect their lives.

Mr Speaker, every time the Budget is presented, people are expectant because they want to see a reduction in poverty levels, food prices and an improvement in health facilities. They were also expectant to see how the allocations that were to be presented were going to improve things such as sanitation in this country. After going through the figures, people discovered that there was nothing in the Budget for them apart from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I am, therefore, wondering what is going to change after this Budget presentation.

Mr Speaker, during the time we have been discussing this Budget in this House, the people of Kasama have been listening to the debates as they have been going on. They were following the discussions and have responded favourably.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: It is for this reason that I would like to congratulate the new hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama for having beaten the MMD candidate with the biggest margin ever seen in a by-election.

Hon. PF and UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: The people of Kasama have spoken loudly.

Hon. PF and UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: What I am saying is a fact. In Nchanga, the MMD lost. We had 8,000 votes but the MMD only had 2,000. In Kasama we had more than 10,000 votes compared to the MMD’s 4,000 votes. These are big differences. If the MMD cannot read between the lines from these figures, then they do not know what they are doing.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: There is big writing - this time in capital letters - on the wall and the hon. Members on your right should be able to see it. If they are not able to see it, they should wear spectacles so that they are able to do so.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mukanga: What can the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning do if the foundation is weak? When I was debating the Presidential Speech, I said it was like a weak foundation. The foundation was porous and it was difficult even for the hon. Minister Finance and National Planning to lay a super structure on such a foundation. It is for this reason that the hopes of the people of Kantanshi have been dampened by this Budget.

We should now look at the 2009 Budget and see how it has performed so far. This year’s Budget is the worst budget I have seen in the last five years in as far as performance is concerned.

Hon. PF and UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Before the year has even come to an end, all the projections are in the negative. I am talking about preliminary overruns against the projections that were given from January to June, 2009. The details are as follows:

Projection Percentage

Revenue and grants -12.6

Domestic revenue -6.7

Non-mining co-operates -4.2

Value Added Tax (VAT) -5.7

Total expenditures -14.1

Grants -28.5

Capital expenditure -40.5

Foreign financing -357.1

Mr Speaker, from these figures, even a person who has not been to school is able to tell that the country is not doing well economically. A person like me, who knows numerical analysis, is able to read between the lines …

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … and see that Zambia’s economy is in recession because of these figures. Economically, Zambia’s is not an island. The world is still in recession. It is just coming out of a recession and is not yet out. However, if the Government thinks that by presenting an ordinary Budget that does not show any measures taken to address this crisis, the country will be able to come out of the economic recession, it is mistaken.

   The challenges that we are faced with are extraordinary, therefore, they require an extraordinary budget to meet them.

Mr Speaker, I notice that we have a problem as regard revenue collection because we are targeting wrong areas where we are unable to collect enough money. This is why the Budget is underperforming. Despite the copper prices rising and the mines doing fine, we will not benefit as much as we would have had we maintained the windfall tax. We stated, on the Floor of this House, that we needed to maintain this tax to broaden our revenue threshold. Regrettably, the Government has not done anything about this. All the comments made regarding the windfall tax have fallen on deaf ears. It is for this reason that this Government has decided to tax workers more than the companies.

Mr Speaker, as regards Pay as You Earn (PAYE), the workers contribute more than the companies themselves, which is unacceptable. Why should a worker pay more than a company and why can this issue not be addressed once and for all?

Mr Speaker, workers are contributing 56.7 per cent of the direct taxes, which is too high and unacceptable world over except, here, in Zambia. On the contrary, companies are only contributing 23.8 per cent of direct tax. Why should it be this way?

It is against this background that the Government must come up with an Act that will compel companies to publish the tax they pay. This way, we, as a country, will know how much the mining companies are paying to the Government, how much these companies are generating from copper and who the beneficiary of this money is. As such, we will be able to track the development that is taking place in Zambia.

 Without this Act, we, as a country, will allow a situation where, each and every day, we will see our copper leaving Zambia and the people will continue wallowing in poverty because the Government is not assisting in any way. Zambia is a rich country. God endowed it with resources, and yet our management over them is poor and, I think, this is unacceptable.

Mr Speaker, when we talk of variable tax, it is cardinal to compare and see how much money windfall tax would have raised to what the variable tax is going to raise. This should be made public. It is important to look at these issues and try to address them as they come. If we do not, Zambia will continue depending on other countries when it is supposed to be depended on.

Mr Speaker, looking at the 2010 Budget, by function, in comparison to the 2009 Budget, it still remains weak. I will give you the figures on economic affairs as an example. In 2008, economic affairs were given an allocation of 19.8 per cent. This year, it is only 19.2 per cent. Agriculture, this year, 2009, had an allocation of 7.2 per cent while in 2010, it will be at 6.8 per cent. The Maputo Protocol to which Zambia is a signatory is failing already because we are not following what we signed for. Are we just signing to show other people that Zambia is a signatory to a given protocol, and yet when it comes to implementation, we are not doing anything?

Mr Speaker, when we talk about diversification, we should look at issues seriously. Certainly, you are diversifying, but we see a reduction in the number of fertiliser packs from eight to four bags and from 20 kilograms of seed to 10 kilograms. Worse still, the people on the Copperbelt are also doing something else. They are reducing fertiliser from four to two bags. How are you, as a Government, going to manage? This shows that there is no co-ordination in whatever we are doing as a nation.

Mr Speaker, there is a serial killer on the loose in my constituency and as if this is not enough, the police have even barred the people there from farming. This means that there will be no farming activities taking place this year. So, what are the people of Kantanshi supposed to do about their wellbeing? Therefore, it is important for this Government to plan to distribute relief food in this Constituency because the serial killer is all over the place. This Government must look at issues from a more serious angle and ensure that this provision is made. 

Mr Speaker, as regards the health sector, it had an allocation of 11.9 per cent in the 2009 Budget and, in 2010, it will be at 8.2 per cent. As if that is not enough, when you compare the allocation to infrastructure allocated in a particular year, for instance, in 2009, we had 1 per cent of the welfare budget and it is at only 0.8 per cent in 2010. 

Yet, Mr Speaker, it is disheartening to look at structures like the Ronald Ross Hospital. The building is falling apart. It does not even have adequate equipment that is supposed to be used in the day-to-day running of a health institution, for instance, a Blood Pressure (BP) machine. How are people expected to survive when the allocation to the health sector has been reduced?

Mr Speaker, when my brother from Kankoyo was debating, he said that the people were using curtains as blankets. Instead of The Government distributing blankets in Kasama, they should have delivered them to Ronald Ross Hospital where they were needed more.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when people use curtains or blankets from home, they infect the people at home after being discharged. Why can the Government not listen, for a moment, so that it implements what we talk about? This is not politicking. We are serious about what we are doing and that is why we even took some money from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to buy some blankets as a way of meeting the Government half way. It is the Government’s responsibility and not ours to provide these things. The Government is supposed to have provided money to purchase equipment such as BP and Diabetes machines, but there is no provision. What type of analysis is this Government conducting? This Budget has failed before it can even be implemented and it is very sad.

Mr Speaker, with regard to recreation, culture and religion, the allocation in the 2009 Budget was at 1.2 per cent and it is 0.6 per cent in the 2010 Budget. Where are we going as a nation?

Mr Muntanga: We are lost!

Mr Mukanga: How then can an improvement in economic affairs be expected? We have been talking about job creation in relation to the multi-facility economic zones (MFEZ) and how the Chambeshi Smelter is expected to create jobs, but the jobs meant for the Zambians are of poor quality.

Mr Speaker, for your own information, we do not hate the Chinese. I, personally, do not hate the Chinese because they were also created by God. I hate what they do and their culture. I do not like the fact that they give jobs with poor conditions to Zambians. This is not appreciated because no Zambian can do that in China. The people who have been to China would confirm that Zambians who have companies there follow the law of the land unlike what the Chinese are doing, here, in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, how does the Government allow them to bring a door glandular or a wheelbarrow pusher from China at the expense of loosing foreign exchange that they remit back to their country? That is not acceptable. It is the attitude that the Chinese have towards Zambians which we do not like. We will not stop because we want to see change.

Mr Speaker, why should a Chinese shoot at a demonstrating crowd? In Chambeshi, among the people who were demonstrating, a Mr Mwanaumo was shot at by a Chinese and is still living with a bullet in his spine and the Government that is supposed to be defending him is just watching.

Mr Muntanga: Mwanaumo?

Mr Mukanga: Yes, Mr Mwanaumo!

Mr Speaker: The Hon. Member will address the Chair to avoid the dialogue style of debating.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, Mr Mwanaumo is living with a bullet in his spine and he is just being given pain killers. We do not even know where the Chinese who shot him is and the Government is doing nothing in as far as compensation for this man is concerned. People die and no follow-ups are made.

The people who died at BILGRIM were given US$10,000 as compensation. Is this the value of life in Zambia? People died at the Kariba North Bank, but what compensation is going to be given to them? If the Government itself cannot provide enough worker’s compensation through this Budget, how do you expect …

Mr Malwa: On a point of order, Sir!

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament who is on the Floor debating so clumsily and talking about a Mr Mwanaumo who was shot in order to bring this matter to the House? As an hon. Member of Parliament, if the incident occurred in his constituency and if he means to help the victim, honestly, does he not know where to take this issue other than bringing it to the House. I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My serious ruling on the point of order raised by the hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services is that the Executive should take note so that it effectively replies to the statements being made by certain hon. Members in this House. If the Executive feels that the statements that are being made or what was being said is untrue or exaggerated, it can take copious notes and then reply.

The hon. Member for Kantanshi may continue.

Mr Mukanga: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before the point of order was raised, I was saying that the Workers Compensation Act, in its current form, should be scrapped off because it does not offer proper compensation to the people. The Government should not offer compensation of K5,000, K10,000 and K36,000 per month to the people. How can a person in a wheel chair live on K36,000 when he has six children? When a worker is involved in an accident and is compensated K36,000, does it show seriousness when we are all potential victims? I think it is important that we look at these issues and see how best we can resolve them. I also expect the Government to waive duty on the safety attire for the people who work in industries so that employers will have no excuse for failing to provide safety attire for their workers.

Mr Speaker, the budget allocation for people with disabilities will not assist them because the Government has continued to offer lip service. The cry of the people living with disabilities has been for the Government to sign and domesticate the United Nations Convention on People Living with Disabilities, but nothing has been done to date, and yet the Government continues to talk about provisions.  It is high time the Government looked into this issue by providing equal opportunities so that the differently abled also compete with able bodied people. They too need the things that the able bodied people need in life. However, if these things are not provided in a special way, it will be difficult for them to survive. The Government must offer tangible credit facilities. The differently abled should be given good meaningful business tax credit facilities. In fact, the credit facility or tax should not be less than K1.5 million. We have few disabled people that are working. What job opportunities are there for them? The Government needs to create more jobs for them so that they move forward.

On the issue of tax relief, it is sheer mockery for people living with disabilities as this Government is not doing enough in this area. The hon. Minister, in the Budget, should have provided proper tax incentives for companies that deal in equipment such as brails, typewriters, embossers and so on. They should also waive duty on sign language writers and other machines. I urge the Government to look into these issues so that the disabled can be comfortable.

 The President, in his speech, made pronouncements in this House that all buildings in the country be modified to suit people living with disabilities. In fact, the law is already there. The Executive should reinforce it. For example, an incentive can be provided for anyone who is making changes to buildings such as the stadium that is being built in Ndola to be accessible. This way, this law can be effected.

 Mr Speaker, the Government should not think that we are here just to waste time. Days are numbered.

Mr D. Mwila: The Pact is coming.

Mr Mukanga: The Pact is coming.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: The UPND-PF Pact, this time, will come in a vicious way. It will not leave any stone unturned. Some of the members from the Government who went to Kasama tasted it. They were running in all directions because the Pact is hot. People talked about the Chilingalinga, but you proved it. Last time, I talked about the Chilingalinga having two heads and I said that if you hit one head, the other resurfaces and they thought it was a joke.


Mr Mukanga: This Chilingalinga hammered everyone who came in its way. We prepared ourselves adequately. Kasama is a rural area and you would have normally got more votes using your own means, but we won. There will be another by-election in Solwezi Central Parliamentary Constituency and it will be disastrous on your part. I can warn you now to pull up your socks. We will meet you head-on.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Kantanshi will address the Chair.

Mr Mukanga: Sir, we are going to meet head-on in Solwezi Central Parliamentary Constituency. We are geared. In fact, we were not even prepared in Kasama, but we are for Solwezi.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We want to meet them squarely from whatever angle using all types of engineering. We will fight it out.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I was listening to my brother. He has such a metallic voice and I was trying to gauge which octave you would put it when he got a, e, eee.


Dr Kalumba: Interesting!

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Chienge should tell the House what language that is.

You may continue.


Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I withdraw.

Firstly, I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate my brother, Hon. G. B.  Mwamba, for winning the Kasama Parliamentary Constituency by-election. I think civility demands that we congratulate him.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: I also wish to state that temporal victories are very misleading, particularly…

Mr Kambwili: Question.

Dr Kalumba: … in a mid-term election. You cannot be too sure of the final outcome come 2011. Do not be too optimistic. I would like to counsel you.

Let me now talk about the Budget. I want to start my contribution by quoting the hon. Minister’s statement when he said and I quote:

 “To complain, to talk, but to achieve nothing tangible is our biggest disease.”

It has been demonstrated, here, without question that we are good at complaining and talking without capacity to achieve anything tangible. It is a sad situation that even when we are in the midst of crisis that requires tangible solutions, we spend most of our time talking and complaining like babies. It is sad to note that this is done by very senior leaders in the political parties…

Hon. Government Member: Especially those we know.

Dr Kalumba: … particularly those that come from Mpika and their very natives. They complain and talk when they should guide, lead and provide a vision.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister was careful to choose his words in his conclusion of the Budget Speech. He talks about the need to have articles of faith.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Dr Kalumba: We need to have articles of faith in ourselves.

Hon. Opposition Member: Court case ileisa.


Dr Kalumba:  It can come ten times over, I do not care. Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker, the fact is that we need articles of faith to raise the productivity of the small-scale farmer. How can somebody say that this Budget is nothing? We need to have faith that it is important to invest in the small-scale farmer to raise his productivity. A Budget aimed at achieving this is a good Budget.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba:  We need articles of faith to add value through manufacturing. If you say that adding value to manufacturing is not good enough, you must be on some planet called Pluto, nothing near earth and that is sad. We need articles of faith to increase our mining output and we are demonstrating, Hon. Kambwili, that we are raising our mining output. Articles of faith. It requires vision to simplify complicated ideas to what the hon. Minister has done. It requires intellect.

Dr Katema: Faith without works is nothing.

Dr Kalumba: You need a little bit of that grey stuff that is, sometimes, poorly distributed in mankind. Articles of faith to improve tourism, is a commitment the hon. Minister has made. We need articles of faith and he is right. He says:

“The attainment of a resilient and diversified economy with a capacity for sustained and rapid growth is not an option for this Government, Mr Speaker, it is an article of faith.”

Dr Scott: What is an article of faith?

Dr Kalumba:  Do you want to come to my English class?


Dr Kalumba: It is important to believe in ourselves, the goals we set for ourselves and that we can do it even when it appears difficult. Everybody accepts that we are in the middle of a global recession, including our colleagues in the Opposition. However, they are more preoccupied with seeing how nothing can work. We want to demonstrate how we can work and improve things. The hon. Minister assured, in the midst of this crisis, that the economy appears to have grown at 4 per cent plus. This is much higher than the average on the continent.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Dr Kalumba: If you do not see that, then there is something a little funny about you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Dr Kalumba: It is nice to be theatrical, speak louder, scream and look as if your blood pressure is going to rise, but in doing that, you entertain, but do not lead.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: We are not entertainers on this side of the House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: We are in the business of providing leadership.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: You are an artist. You are a musician.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I am at liberty to ignore my good friend, Hon. Kambwili, from Roan.


Dr Kalumba: In fact, Sir, I heard somebody say that I am a musician. There is something about music in that you need each string to with the other. We need D, C, G and the others to be in synchrony. When they are not, you get a discordant note which is bad noise like bad wind.

Mr Mwapela: Bauze, Mudala, sibamvela!


Dr Kalumba:  Mr Speaker, I withdraw the bad wind part. The concept of crisis of the modern State has been well described by the German Scholar, Klosov. It is a simple issue and he puts it as simply as the hon. Minister has done.

 “The demands of a welfare state exceed the Budget of the State.”
I am sure my good friend and brother, Hon. Dr Scott, understands that. We are being told how we should increase the Budget to welfare demands, at the same time as we acknowledge we are in a budgetary resource crisis, where our revenues are limited because there has been a serious global financial problem.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Dr Kalumba: We are just beginning to pull out of it. Somebody says we are in recession, but they want to increase welfare expenditures beyond budgetary expectations. Now, that is something strange. How can an hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, whose Budget is constrained due to an economic recession, have more consumptive expenditure to get out of the recession? There is something wrong with you.

Hon. MMD Member: Which economics?

Hon. MMD Member: Village economics.

Dr Kalumba: Thank you, Hon. Dr Scott, for your wonderful remarks.

Dr Scott: What remarks?

Dr Kalumba: It is a reality of the modern State that we have to constrain excessive consumptive demands in order for us to move forward. Somebody said the Pay-As-You- Earn Tax (PAYE) is 54 per cent while Corporate Tax is 30 per cent and that it never happens anywhere in the world. That is the fact of the global position. PAYE in any country is much higher than corporate tax. Do not misrepresent facts.

Hon. Opposition Members: In productive countries.

Dr Kalumba: If you went back in time and checked, you would find the same trend in the previous Budgets.

Mr Kambwili: That is where we have gone wrong.

Dr Kalumba: Sir, may I be protected? Hon. Kambwili wants to debate from his seat.

Mr Speaker: Order! Let me guide the hon. Member for Chienge to ignore all the hecklers and address the Chair.

Dr Kalumba: Thank you, Sir. I have noted that drama far exceeds the need for facts. I will, therefore, be dramatic and the dramatic is political.

I am quite saddened by the misrepresentation of reality here. Not too long ago, we had a Member of Parliament for Chitambo, who won a by-election on an MMD ticket. We were not so overwhelmed.


Dr Kalumba: However, because my brother, Hon. Mwamba, entertained them to an all-night party, where party presidents looked as if they were invited guests to a presidential palace, …


Dr Kalumba: … some of our people have lost their sense of direction.


Hon. MMD Member: Hammer!

Dr Kalumba: I have greater faith in political party leaders who shun small parties of their Members of Parliament when they are celebrating.


Dr Kalumba:  You want to go dramatic, let us go dramatic.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: I have no faith. There is no article of faith.

Mr Mwapela: Bebeni, bamudala.


Dr Kalumba: I thank you, Sir.

Deputy Minister for the Copperbelt Province (Mr Mbulakulima): I thank you, Mr Speaker. To start with, I wish to congratulate the new Member of Parliament for Kasama, Hon. Mwamba, commonly known as GBM. We want to state that the MMD is not jealous of your win.

Hon. Lundwe: No crude language here!

Mr Mbulakulima: The same ideals and principles that you stood for in 2006, when you stood on the MMD ticket, still live on.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: We, as MMD, know that elections are like football. You can either win or lose a game.

Mr Shawa: Wamvela, Kambwili!

Mr Mbulakulima: Therefore, we welcome you.

Mr Speaker, this year’s Budget is reflective and indicative of this Government’s concern to fight poverty as well as sustain and conserve the growth that has, so far, been achieved by the Rupiah Banda Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: The K16.7 trillion Budget that has been proposed and presented to this august House is not only a tabernacle of hope, but also a summit of all our shared ideals and activities. I would like to say that the overall picture of the Budget is encouraging because K12.1 trillion is likely to come from the internal resources. The K1.5 trillion will come from domestic borrowing and K3.1 trillion will come from the donors.

Mr Speaker, the significance of this is that the Government is trying to compress donor dependence which is the prudent way of doing things. The average growth rate of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has been recorded at 6 per cent in the last few years. The envisaged growth of about 5 per cent, especially under the current economic down-turn is realistic because the expected growth rate for Sub-Sahara is 1.3 per cent, a drop from 5.5 per cent. Indeed, at least, 5 per cent is reasonable.

Mr Speaker, allow me to focus on the Copperbelt Province which I am privileged to superintend. The Government’s resolve on the challenges facing the province cannot be doubted. The scenario has changed despite the global economic down-turn and unprecedented threats to the jobs, especially in the mining sector. There is now hope on the horizon. The reopening of the Luanshya Copper Mine and anticipated commencement of the development of Mulyashi Mine gives hope to the people of Luanshya.

Sir, the province has experienced unprecedented growth in the economic sector. The accelerated re-employment of our people in Luanshya is visible for anyone to see. The general threat to the jobs at Konkola Copper Mine, Mopani Copper Mine and Chibuluma Copper Mine is no longer there. This is all because of this Government’s prudent and sound policies in the mining sector.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the commissioning of the Chambishi Copper Smelter is another milestone. This does not only mean more revenue for the Government, but also more jobs for the Zambian people.

As hon. Members may be aware, the establishment of the multi-facility economic zone, (MFEZ) in Chambishi and the Copperbelt Province, is a new phenomenon that will bring unprecedented economic growth to this country. Most hon. Members may realise and agree with me that the economic miracles of China that the world talks about today came through the same system that this Government is putting in place.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, already more than ten enterprises are operating in these zones. It is envisaged that five more will be operational by the end of 2010.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: What is even more critical and pertinent in this regard is that, it is all about value addition. However, this Government realises that copper is a diminishing asset and hence the reason to look at other alternative resources. It is in this regard that we, as a province, welcome the Budget’s theme, Enhancing Growth through Competitiveness and Diversification. Apart from being consistent, this theme is still being seen in what we are doing on the Copperbelt. For us, diversification is not only important, but also the right way to go. It is in this regard that we are seriously focusing on the agricultural and tourism sectors. We would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for allocating K1.2 trillion to the agricultural sector and K430 billion for the Farmers Input Support Programme.

Mr Speaker, manufacturing and construction have a special place in our province. The construction of the magnificent Ndola Stadium is another pride of our province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I can only appeal to the people of the Copperbelt not to lose hope as this Budget provides hope and a future. It does not only look at one sector, but also encompasses all areas of human endeavour.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: We are pleased with the allocation of Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and fuel on the rural roads equipment because this is a clear manifestation of a caring Government.

Mr Speaker, allow me to comment on Zambia’s sovereignty. I have listened, with a lot of interest, from some debates that have flowed on the Floor of this House, especially from my colleagues on your left. I would like to advise some hon. Members who seem to derive delight from unnecessarily attacking the President as well as the Executive. I would like to tell them to be mindful in the way they attack this Government because outsiders …


Mr Mbulakulima: … may confuse their hollow debates to confusion and uncertainty in the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Let us agree on certain issues and probably disagree on some, but with a measure of sincerity as well as patriotism.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, sometimes I wonder who we represent in this House. Is it the ordinary people in our constituencies or the outside world? For once, let us behave, to some extent, like Americans who become one immediately the elections are over.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: We should remember that we are Zambians first before we join any other political institution. Therefore, our sense of patriotism to this country must always come first before obligations even to our various political parties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: If you ask me about the Americans, Hon. Muntanga, let me tell you that a month ago, President Barack Obama addressed both the Congress and Senate when one Republican Congressman called him a liar. Do know what happened? The whole House booed him. Both the Republicans and Democrats refused to agree that their President be called a liar.

Mr Lundwe: Wumfwa Muntanga!

Mr Mbulakulima: They feared for their image.


Mr Mbulakulima: Let me repeat that. They feared for their image as a country. What happened thereafter is now history as the Head of the Republican Party apologised to the American people on behalf of the party and the Congressman was asked to give a written apology. That is the way it should be. What sense of patriotism they have!

Today, in this Parliament people are just rubbishing this Government as if we are all bent on destroying this country.

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Mbulakulima: Our friends in the Opposition believe that by denouncing us, then they are providing opposition. 
   What a shame! As hon. Opposition Members, we expect you to sit down and analyse the budget as it has been presented by the Executive and come up with ways of effectively implementing this Budget. All we hear is that the pact is coming. So what if it comes?


Mr Mbulakulima: My dear colleagues, you should learn to be serious with the national development. We may have no jobs but we shall remain Zambians and it is for that reason that we need to be serious with the development of our country.

Mr Speaker, allow me to comment on the non-governmental organisations (NGOs) consortium. This is the only country where NGOs involve themselves in issues they were not originally registered for. These are NGOs that only concentrate on issues they have little expertise in and hoodwink our people into believing them. As a country, when we reached the HIPC Completion Point, the NGOs were silent. When the corruption index report was released and this Government was commended for making strides, the NGOs were silent. When it was reported that the infant mortality rate had drastically dropped, the malicious NGOs were quiet. What kind of NGOs are these? The primary function the NGOs were provided for under the Mwanakatwe Constitution Review Commission of 1996 was to complement the Government and not to undermine. Today, we see this consortium of NGOs with some of our friends in the donor community, all aiming at bringing this Government to shame and on its knees. They have hired themselves out to our colleagues in the Opposition.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mbulakulima: You people do not realise that you are driving this country to grief as well as shame. Be civic and learn to dialogue. All of us have the interest of this country at heart.

Mr Speaker, finally, allow me to comment on the National Constitutional Conference (NCC). This Government has provided K50 billion for the NCC. I have heard from certain quarters that this amount is a waste and should have been channeled to other priority areas. Which areas can be prioritised above the constitution-making process, if I may ask? It is a constitution of the country that lays a platform for growth or not. We need the institution to understand whether it is possible for a snake with two heads to stand on its own or it needs to get registered altogether.


Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the constitution will provide quality on all these issues. We are what we are as a people because of the constitution of the land. This is why I remove my hat for those gallant men and women who chose not to listen to the voices of their political parties on this issue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: They have understood the importance of a good constitution. I sympathise with the people whose hon. Members of Parliament did not attend because they had been denied to be heard on this issue. Let us support the cause and ensure that our children are given a constitution that will assist them grow and develop our country.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, may I start by commending the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the Budget Speech which was well delivered. Like any budgets, one problem comes out very clearly out of this budget and this is our inability to raise resources amidst numerous opportunities. Our country is endowed with a lot of minerals such as copper. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning knows, much as I do, that minerals are a wasting asset. Once exploited, they are never replaced. When minerals fetch a good price at the London Metal Exchange, it is an opportunity for this country to earn a little from that resource.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, I always wonder why we cannot, as Zambians, earn good revenue from our copper resources. We are in problems with regard to implementing development projects because our resource basket is limited. One reason for this is our inability to not deliberately tax the mining companies that are making hefty profits from our mineral wealth. Why should we treat the mine companies with kid gloves when people in Shang’ombo are crying for good medical facilities and the people in Lundazi want good educational facilities? The pupil-teacher ratio in most parts of the country is terrible and why can we not tax the mining companies reasonably?

Sir, up to now, I find it extremely difficult to understand why my Government found it wise to withdraw the windfall tax. This difficulty comes into play because of the inability by our Government to give a convincing explanation as to why the windfall tax was done away with. Why do you not re-introduce windfall tax? Windfall tax will only become operative when the mining companies start earning profits beyond a certain benchmark. Why can this Government, which is a listening one, for once, not consider the needs of our people? The people want you to deliver and that is why they voted you into office. You know as much as I do that the mining companies are making hefty profits at the expense of you and I. Who do you want to please?

Mr Muntanga: Themselves!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Is it a priority to please mining companies at the expense of many Zambians whom you are taxing heavily? This budget, like other budgets, has disclosed that it is the few working class who are heavily taxed to an extent that the Government earns more revenue from these few working people. Why can you not tax the mining companies? It is about time you sat down and examined your actions. When we advise you, we are doing this because we want you to succeed. We do not want you to fail. When you deliberately do not take measures which are meant to make your job easier, we begin to wonder what your priorities are. I am making a very passionate appeal to you my Government that it is about time you took a fresh look at the windfall tax. Do not be afraid. You are there to govern. In governing, be prepared to make unpopular decisions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I am inviting you to make unpopular decisions by reintroducing windfall tax.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Sir, everybody will appreciate that you have the interest of your people; my people at heart. Having said that, each time I listen to the Budget Address, I ask myself as an hon. Member of Parliament representing a rural constituency what is in the budget for the people of Chasefu. What is in it, …

Mr Muntanga: Nothing!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: … apart from the Constituency Development Fund, which is not released timely? What is it for the people of Chasefu Constituency? I am urging the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that, as you work out your budgetary measures, you should think of the people. What is in this budget for the people of Zambia?

Mr Muntanga: Zero!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, let me talk about the people of Chasefu Constituency. The K650million which we will get as Constituency Development Fund (CDF) will go towards assisting the Government to deliver. In Chasefu, the bulk of the CDF will go towards improving teachers’ accommodation and classrooms because the Government is not doing what is expected of it, understandably so, because you do not want to charge those that are making money at the expense of Zambians. What else is there for the people of Chasefu in this budget?

Hon. Opposition Member: Nothing.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I am not sure that the tarring the Chipata/Lundazi Road will be completed this time around. However, if this budget, which was ably presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, will translate into the road between Chipata and Lundazi being tarred completely, then for me, it was a Budget Speech worth its salt.

Mr Speaker, all of us are bemoaning our inability to raise revenue. I thought that allowing councils to charge crop levy would ease the pressure on the Treasury.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Each of these councils was given an opportunity to raise money. It is this money that they were going to use to provide services to the people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC: However, you have reduced this reliable source of revenue to the councils. I am speaking on behalf of councils in the Eastern Province. This will not help them at all. No matter how good your arithmetic is, it will not help because the figures in this budget are not giving enough recompense to the revenue that will be lost by the councils. 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Think of Mazabuka, for instance.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Even the sugar company is now refusing to pay crop levy.

Mr Nkombo: Say it loud.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: How do you expect the Mazabuka District Council to survive?

Hon. Opposition Member: Hamba wena!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Sometimes we have to criticise because we love you.  We do not want you to fail. Only a fool would want you to fail and I am not a fool. I am pleading with you to give a second thought to the removal of the crop levy. The Lundazi District Council will lose out. At the moment, they are up to date with workers’ salaries because of the crop levy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: The same can be said for numerous other councils. Why should we kill the councils that are trying to survive?

Mr Speaker, I thought that we had embraced the policy of decentralisation. Decentralisation must also translate into financial independence …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: …and this is one way of making the councils independent. To what extent are you prepared to go to implement the policy of decentralisation?

Hon. Opposition Members: They are against it.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Once upon a time, the councils were allowed to issue licences, and they earned revenue from this. You took away that reliable source. Now you are taking away another reliable source. What sort of decentralisation is this? Is this not decentralisation in reverse?

Mr Nkombo: It is.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Why should it be so?

Mr Muntanga: Look at them.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I am making a very passionate appeal to you to revisit some of these decisions.

You have talked about diversification in your Budget Speech. This is a welcome development. I come from a province whose economy is heavily dependent on agriculture. Therefore, when you talk about diversifying into agriculture, it makes me happy, and perhaps for a change, I can start smiling because, at least, you have promised to introduce the Agricultural Marketing Bill in this current sitting of Parliament. I think that this will be development in the right direction because all of us know that the major problem, which our people who depend on agriculture face, is that of marketing.

Mr Speaker, for a constituency as big as mine, which extends to a length of over 167km, to have three satellite depots, is a joke. How do you expect a person to travel 25km to sell ten bags of maize?

Mr Nkombo: It is absurd.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Therefore, your promise to bring about this Bill is most welcome and I think that if implemented, it will make some people smile and for once, even though it will be just half a step, start believing that this time around, this budget may be breathing some little air, although I do not know how fresh it is, in their development process.

Mr Speaker, it is also a welcome development by this Government to set up farming blocks. However, bear in mind that land is a very important asset. Zambians value land. Therefore, as these pieces of land are prepared for development, please ensure that a certain proportion of this land is reserved for the Zambians. We have nowhere else to go.

We do not want the Nansanga Farming Block to be a piece of land belonging to the Chinese alone. I think that it is important, and this is from the bottom of my heart, for this Government to realise that this land belongs to Zambians, who have the capacity to develop it. Therefore, as you invite foreign investors, bear in mind that we have locals who have the capacity to develop our land. Therefore, take a deliberate policy to reserve some pieces of land for Zambians.

Mr Speaker, I say so because I have lived long enough, close to sixty is not bad, to know that once upon a time, all the shops in Matero were owned by Zambians. It is the same for Libala and Chilenje. What has happened now, however, is that in Chilenje, the only business that is doing well is Shoprite. You have invited foreign investors in the form of Shoprite, who were given a lot of incentives, but that was at the expense of the poor, small Zambian businessmen and women.

Hon. Opposition Member: They were killed.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: It is about time you took a positive action of empowering the Zambians which must start with making land available to them. I, therefore, welcome the establishment of the Nansanga and Luena Farming blocks. However, take a deliberate policy to introduce positive discrimination in favour of the Zambians.

Mr Nkombo: Correct.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, the people who come from Lundazi Constituency will be happy that this time around, some money has been promised for the Nyangwe Airstrip. My memory is not as bad as people may think. I remember, some time back, when the late President Mr Mwanawasa, addressed this House, he told us that the Nyangwe Airstrip had been rehabilitated. To the contrary, nothing has been done. My worry is who fed the Head of State with false information?

Mr Muntanga: It is these same people.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Now, with the promised allocation of money for the rehabilitation of this airstrip, I hope that this will not be a promise unfulfilled. To this extent, the people of Lundazi can acknowledge the fact there is something for them in this budget.

Mr Speaker, the people of my constituency must give credit where it is due. I must confess that in the last Budget, my constituency benefited in terms of road infrastructure. The roads that the Government promised to work on have been graded.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Therefore, congratulations to you and I hope that you will continue to fulfill the promises which you make in this House. Having said that, and I hope that I will not be selfish, it is important to ensure that those roads which have not been attended to, this time around, are given attention, come next year. In this regard, I am talking about the Lundazi/Chama, Lundazi/Chikwa roads and the bridge across Luangwa at Matumbo. This bridge is very important because it will be the shortest link between the Lundazi and Chama districts with the Northern Province. On the Chama side, the road has already been graded up to the Luangwa Bridge.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Therefore, the onus is now on the Government to ensure that they erect a bridge across Luangwa.

Mr Speaker, funds were set aside in the last Budget for the recruitment of teachers. Unfortunately, the whole Lundanzi District is wondering why they were only given one teacher.

 Mr D. Mwila: Aah!

Mr C. B. B. Banda, SC.: Lundazi District has three constituencies, but only one teacher was given to this area out of the 5,000 plus teachers that were recruited. What is this?

Mr D. Mwila: It is a circus.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Was it deliberate? I know that the hard working hon. Minister of Education promised mountains, but on this one, you have not delivered because what you gave us is a mockery. Why did only send one teacher for a district which has three constituencies when some constituencies have got so many teachers? What criteria were used? Therefore, my plea is that since there is an allocation for the recruitment of teachers in next year’s Budget, bear in that you turned your back on the people of Lundazi in the allocation of teachers. Let us this not be repeated because it will be difficult for us to forget.

You should also bear in mind that Lundazi District is the only district where one political party does not dominate. Your humble hon. Member of Parliament submitting now belongs to the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD). Lundazi is controlled by a United National Independence Party Member of Parliament and Lumezi is controlled by a Movement for Muti-party Democracy Member of Parliament. What this tells you is that people in Lundazi look at issues. Therefore, the issue of giving them teacher for the whole district will go down very badly with them.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Tell them!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that time is not on my side, let me talk about hospitals.

Sir, this Government has got a very good policy of constructing hospitals in every district. I am now making a plea on behalf of Katete District, which has no Government hospital, forty-five years after independence. Therefore, my plea to this Government is to ensure that this time around, it should think of Katete because it also deserves to have a district hospital.

Sir, Lundazi District Hospital had a project which commenced in 2001. The works stalled in 2002. Since then, we have had many budgets, but none of these budgets have addressed the commencement of the works on the extension to Lundazi District Hospital. Is it by design or because we mean nothing to you? My submission is that it is about time you set aside money to ensure that the project is attended to. Yes, I am the only one talking, because most of my Hon. Colleagues in Eastern Province are holding positions.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Therefore, I am talking on behalf of the province.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. B. Banda:  Take us seriously. I know that some of my colleagues are holding Government positions, but when it comes to development, we all speak with one voice. For a change, give us a thought and take us seriously,

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kambwili indicated.

Mr Speaker: You cannot speak twice

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for affording me this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion of the 2010 Budget that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, I also want to thank you for having according me an opportunity to go on leave to go so that I could go and interact with the people of my constituency, Bahati who are very much happy that they are able to hear ‘Order’ in Bahati Constituency through Parliament Radio.

Mr Speaker, I want to confirm to you that the people are excited about the development. A good number of them always listen to the voices of the people that debate on the Floor of this House through Parliament Radio.

Mr Speaker, I want to say that I chose to go and interact with the people of Bahati Constituency before I debated the Budget because like I have always maintained, I believe in the evaluation of the progress that we the people of Bahati together with Government are making.

Sir, what I am talking about are not stories neither am I building castles in the air. I will be talking the realities as there obtain on the floor and Bahati Constituency in particular.

Mr Speaker, Government is doing quite well in the education sector in particular in the provision of infrastructure. People are happy with the work being done, but they are still more works that require Government attention.

Mr Speaker, I want to inform you and the nation that Mansa High School which is the only Government institution in Mansa District the provincial headquarters of Luapula Province is virtually dilapidated and I mean just that.

Mansa High School was constructed under a Word Bank programme when card boards were used to put up infrastructure in order to provide more rooms in terms of offices and classrooms for use in order for people to access education.

Sir, the infrastructure at Mansa High School has over stayed to the extent that some of the fittings are falling off. The school is in a sorry state. These are the issues the people of Mansa and Bahati in particular are saying I should remind the Government to try and address. The people of Luapula want to work with the Government as long as the Government provide services and leadership.

Mr Speaker, I am saying this because it is quite very embarrassing for whoever goes into Mansa to go and sees a secondary school of that magnitude in a very dilapidated state. I hope through you, Sir, again, the hon. Ministers of Education and Finance and National Planning will quickly address that issue because definitely we need quality education. Quality education can only be attained under quality infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, let me come health to health and I want to be brief. The massage which I have for this Government is that even though Mansa District has a referral hospital in form of Mansa General Hospital, it does not have a district hospital at all. Therefore, a lot of people in Mansa Central and Bahati Constituencies lack medical facilities. I think the solution could be either the Government gets one of the clinics in Mansa Central or Bahati Constituencies, like it is doing in Lusaka and upgrade it to the level where it can be a referral clinic. Then, Government will go a long way in addressing the medical requirements of its people…

 Business was suspended from 1805 hours to 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Speaker: The bell was audible enough …


Mr Speaker: … to reach wherever you were.


Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that we need a district hospital in Mansa to address issues pertaining to medication for the people in Bahati and Mansa Central constituencies.

Sir, before I move to agriculture, there is one thing I would want to mention. Yesterday, I was privileged to go with a Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) crew to one of the girls’ high schools, Kabunda Girls High School in my constituency to be specific. This school was constructed in 1952 by the Catholics when they were providing education to women in Standards 3, 4 and 5. Sir, ever since Government took over this school, there is nothing new that has been added to it to make it suit the standards of a high school for girls. There is literally no laboratory. The girls put their mattresses on the floor. The dormitories are congested and dilapidated.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform you that using the CDF, I sunk a borehole at this school and there are no water problems. Since we have a female hardworking Minister of Education, I know that my appeal is not falling on deaf ears. I can see she is nodding her head, and I am inviting her to go to Kabunda High School. At this school, there are girls who come from as far as Chipata, Lusaka and the Copperbelt because of the quality education they get at this school despite the dilapidated infrastructure.

Kabunda High School has no staff houses at all. As a result, teachers are forced to ride bicycles from Mansa Township to go and teach at the school. I hope that the Government will consider building staff houses at this school.

Sir, in my constituency, there are five schools which have not been electrified even though they are in a township, for example, Kaole Basic School. In 1989, when I was heading this school, I provided wiring for the electrification exercise. Today, if you went there, you will find that the boys and girls there have tampered with the wiring system I had put in place. Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) has failed to extend power to the school despite the efforts that I made many years ago. I am not blaming anybody but the question I would like to ask is: Is it really a big problem to electrify a school? The answer is no, it is not. Chibalashi is another school within the same town which has not been electrified. These are some of the issues that annoy our pupils and teachers in particular because they are in town and yet they see electricity power lines passing above their heads, but are not able to use electricity.

Mr Speaker, in this modern education system we need computers. Teachers must research using a computer which can be a library on its own. Such research can only be possible if they are provided with electricity. Please, I am asking the Government to consider the people living in this community. I know that it would not take K190 billion to buy computers or electrify the area, but it is just a matter of putting our heads together so that we can improve our educational system. We can provide such facilities and the teachers are going to appreciate our efforts.

Sir, I do not usually complain, but I want to state that there have been delays by the Ministry Energy and Water Development to electrify the five schools where the Rural Electrification Authority wants to extended power to. People have been waiting for this. When I toured the area, people were asking me when this power will be installed. It is a simple matter. Government must expedite this activity by talking to ZESCO so that power is installed in these schools to help the teachers. The power will also help the health officers who complained that medicines go to waste since there is no power and sometimes paraffin is not accessible. I think we need to move very quickly and swiftly.

Mr Speaker, I do not want to be repetitive on the roads in the area because I know that Government has made a commitment to tar the Mansa/Luwingu Road and the Chembe/Pedicle Road. However, there are roads that are quite big and old which need attention. In my constituency, in particular, there is an old road which links Mansa District to Chipili Mission in Chipili Constituency. The Road Development Agency (RDA) had made announcements that the works on this road are going to commence very soon. Nevertheless, the rainy season is about to start. It rained cats and dogs last week in my constituency and the people are worried as to whether Government will move in to work on the roads so that they can access all areas the want to access. After all, it would be shorter for people coming from Luwingu and Kasama into the Valley because the road cuts across Bahati Constituency and connects to Chipili and Mambilima constituencies.

Mr Speaker, one issue that the people of Luapula have at heart is tourism promotion. Last year, I raised a question on the Floor of this House as to when the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources will consider sending a tourism promoter to Luapula Province. Up until now, we have not had one. The people of Luapula feel cheated because there is literally very little that is being done to see to it that the tourism potential in that area is exploited for the benefit of the people.

Since I took the young men from ZNBC to Luapula, I would like to invite everybody to watch ZNBC on Sunday when this programme is going to be beamed on air. I had even taken them into the lake to prove to them that the lake is safe. There is white sand on the beaches and it is very beautiful. That is the only way we can advertise our tourism potential in Nchelenge and Samfya. If you drove through Tuta Bridge, you would see the beauty of the plain and we would like to encourage the Government to consider stocking animals in a disease free zones so that we can be able to export beef to other countries.

Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Members of Parliament, especially the hon. Members that belong in the Executive, that the people are missing their presence. I think the culture that prevailed during the First Republic, after the budget presentation in which ministers went village to village to explain the contents of the budget to the people must be revisited. Definitely, you only want to see them when there are elections, but it would be prudent …


Mr Chimbaka: … that you go to see them before elections. I have no problem with my people because I interact with them. It may sound funny but that is very important. Ku mwesu beba ati nokolume tabapeshilya, no mulangulushi wa muntu ala palama. This means that a leader must be with his people all the time. Therefore, it is very important that hon. Ministers must take tours so that they can properly supplement our efforts. There are those of us in this House who explain the budget to the people. We explain to them what we are going to do. In return, they will respect, believe, love and support us. People are complaining that you are missing in action because you only see them when there are by-elections.

With that free and friendly advice, I wish to thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the speech delivered by Hon. Dr Musokotwane who is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, it is not my intention to keep this House for a long time because the hon. Deputy Minister has already contributed to the debate with regard to our ministry.

Mr Speaker, the ministry is key in providing and facilitating social protection to the less privileged and vulnerable groups. It contributes to poverty reduction and strives to improve the living standards of our people. It promotes the safeguarding and the preservation of Zambia’s national cultural heritage.

Mr Speaker, other than that, the ministry can be an economic one and we will strive, as the people running it, to make sure that the Department of Culture, through artcrafts and our heritage, creates employment and wealth.

Mr Magande: Debate the Budget!

Mr Kaingu: I am debating the speech in a generic form in case you do not know. On agriculture, I have always said that agriculture is able to grow this economy by more than 5 per cent. It is our intention, as MMD, to promote this sector. We are also able, with the efforts that we are making in tourism, to grow this economy by 5 per cent.

Mr Speaker, before I sit down …


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, in my preamble, I said I was going to be brief.


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Education to improve the alumni of all our universities because we do not seem to …

Mr Speaker: Order!

There is no way a Cabinet Minister can appeal to another in this House. It is never done because you are collectively answerable for all ministries.

Will the hon. Minister continue, please?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, collectively with the hon. Minister of Education, we will improve the alumni of the University of Zambia so that the people, like Hon. Magande, who passed through it should start contributing towards its well being.


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like to say that all the people who passed through the University of Zambia using bursaries will be followed so that they start paying back the loans.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: You were not using that money free of charge. It was an agreement that after completing school, you would work for the Government for four years. Hon. Masebo knows that although she is not working for the Government. Wherever she is working, she must pay for the bursary.

Mrs Masebo: But I am here working for the Government.

Mr Kaingu: With those few remarks, I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker: Order! I do not see any hon. Member indicating to speak. We shall continue with part of Plan A.


Mr Speaker: I suspend business for a few minutes and then we shall see what is going to happen on the screens.

Business was suspended from 1846 hours until 1917 hours.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, I do not want to make a mistake in pronunciation.



The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.


Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1917 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 21st October, 2009.