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Debates- Wednesday, 15th July, 2009
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 15th July, 2009
The House met at 1430 hours
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER
in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
__________________
ANNOUNCEMENT
CHANGES TO THE COMPOSITION OF TWO SESSIONAL COMMITTEES
Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, following the appointment of Mr M. M. Mabenga, MP, as Deputy Minister, I wish to inform the House that the following changes to the composition of two Sessional Committees have been made:
1. Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs – Mr G. Mpombo, MP, replaces Mr M. M. Mabenga, MP; and
2. Committee on Education, Science and Technology – Mr G. Mpombo, MP, replaces Mr M. M. Mabenga, MP.
Thank you.
____________________
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
ZAMBIA-CHINA ECONOMIC AND TRADE CO-OPERATION ZONE
225. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:
(a) which firms had made commitments to invest in Chambishi under the Zambia-China Economic and Trade Co-operation Zone;
(b) how much had been pledged, company by company;
(c) in which sectors of investment the pledges above had been made; and
(d) whether the companies at (a) above are private or state-owned.
The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Taima): Madam, the following are the companies which have made commitments to invest in the Chambishi Multi-Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ):
1. Non-Ferrous Corporation Africa Mining Plc (NFCA);
2. Chambishi Foundry and Rolling Steel Limited;
3. Sino Metals Leach Zambia Limited;
4. Sino Acid Products Zambia Limited;
5. Limian Service Limited;
6. Chambishi Copper Smelter Limited;
7. Golden Honest Africa Development Limited;
8. Zambian Non-Ferrous Metals Exploration Construction;
9. Fifteen MCC Africa Construction Trade Limited; and
10. Twapalwa Industrial Corporation Limited.
As regards (b), the following are the pledges made by each of these companies:
Company Proposed investment (US$)
Non-Ferrous Corporation Africa Mining Plc 320,000,000.00
(NFCA)
Chambishi Foundry and Rolling Steel Limited 1,500,000.00
Sino Metals Leach Zambia Limited 35,000,000.00
Sino Acid Products Zambia Limited 8,500,000.00
Limian Service Limited 300,000.00
Chambishi Copper Smelter Limited 300,000,000.00
Golden Honest Africa Development Limited 35,000,000.00
Zambian Non-Ferrous Metals Exploration Construction 2,000,000.00
Fifteen MCC Africa Construction Trade Limited 10,100,000.00
Twapalwa Industrial Corporation Limited 2,200,000.00
With regard to (c), the following are the sectors of investment in which pledges have been made:
Company Sector/Products
Non-Ferrous Corporation Africa Mining (Copper concentrates)
Mining plc (NFCA)
Chambishi Foundry and Rolling Manufacturing (Rolling Steel)
Steel Limited
Sino Metals Leach Zambia Limited Mining (Copper Cathodes)
Sino Acid Products Zambia Limited Manufacturing (Sulphuric Acid)
Limian Service Limited Construction
Chambishi Copper Smelter Limited Mining (Copper Blister)
Golden Honest Africa Manufacturing (Mechanical
Development Limited Components)
Zambian Non-Ferrous Metals Construction (Building
Materials)
Exploration Construction
Fifteen MCC Africa Construction Construction (Building
Limited Materials & Steel Structures)
Twapalwa Industrial Corporation Limited Manufacturing (Mechanical
Components)
Madam Speaker, regarding part (d) of the question, all the companies listed above are privately owned.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, we expect jobs to be created by our people and for our people and Chinese nationals. I want to find out from the hon. Minister how many Chinese nationals will work under the Chambishi Zambia-China Economic and Trade Co-operation Zone.
Mr Taima: Madam Speaker, I do not have those statistics off the cuff, but all I can say is that we do enter into investment promotion and protection agreements with whichever investor meets the minimum threshold guidelines. Under these investment promotion and protection agreements (IPPAs), we allow investors to employ some workers specialised in certain fields in which they cannot find people with a particular level of competence locally. A certain number of employees will come from China, but, by and large, employment is going to be given to Zambians.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Speaker, all the ten mentioned companies, including the Twapalwa Industrial Corporation Limited are Chinese owned. There is no single Zambian owned company that has been mentioned. Can the hon. Minister give the reason there is no single Zambian owned company that is going to operate from the Chambishi Multi-Facility Economic Zone? How many Zambians will be employed?
Mr Taima: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question whose response I want to use to clarify one point. I want to mention with emphasis from the outset that investing in the Chambishi Multi-Facility Economic Zone is open to all, both local and foreign investors. I have not heard of anyone who has met all the requirements being sent back. The minimum requirement, in general terms, of course, is that someone must have a minimum of US$500,000 to invest in a business. We have continued calling for both local and foreign direct investment.
Madam Speaker, the statistics I have given are as at five months ago. It is true that all the companies listed are 100 per cent Chinese owned, but the good news is that we have about four Zambian companies that have, so far, showed interest in investing in the Chambishi Multi-Facility Economic Zone. They have even approached the management of the multi-facility economic zone. They want to invest, generally, in wood processing, assembling of motor vehicles and in the manufacturing of detergents and so on. These companies will soon be given authority to invest in the multi-facility economic zone.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, who are the shareholders of the Twapalwa Industrial Corporation Limited?
Mr Taima: Madam Speaker, I have just mentioned here that all the ten mentioned companies are 100 per cent Chinese owned.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Munaile (Malole): Madam Speaker, how possible is it for Zambian companies to borrow US$500,000 in order to invest in the Chambishi Multi-Facility Economic Zone?
Mr Taima: Madam Speaker, there is a possibility of Zambian companies borrowing in order to invest in the Chambishi Multi-Facility Economic Zone. I know of a lot of Zambians that are investing in different sectors of our economy and, by and large, they are investing because they are accessing finances from different sources. We have a lot of Zambians running Marcopolo buses costing so many billions of kwacha. Most of them have obtained loans. Right now, I know there is …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Can we listen.
Mr Taima: … the Citizenship Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) and it is very much working. Some Zambians have already accessed as much as over a K1 billion. Sources of finances are there and it is possible for Zambians to borrow and invest.
Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, what is the Government doing to encourage these foreign Chinese investors …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The Chair must, at least, hear.
Mr Kakoma: … to enter into partnerships with Zambians in order to develop …
Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise a point order early in the business of the House. I would also like to apologise to the hon. Member for Zambezi West for interrupting his question.
Madam, I am raising a point of order regarding the situation at the University of Zambia, Great East Road Campus which has been open for fifteen days now, but the lecturers at the institution have been on strike, legally or illegally.
Madam Speaker, I would like to inform you that most students, especially those on the self-sponsorship programme live on Senanga Road in Handsworth where they are renting most of the houses. They are also spending an average of K300,000 per week on food. This is money coming from their parents or guardians.
Madam Speaker, the police have been deployed at the Great East Road Campus. I do not know in anticipation of what, but clearly students are not like patients at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) who are incapacitated in one way or another. Therefore, I suspect that they are expecting students to become discontent with the situation
Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education in order to remain quiet when these very unpleasant circumstances are prevailing at our highest learning institution. I seek your ruling on this matter.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Indeed, the situation at UNZA is serious. However, the Chair would like to say that the House has just started sitting and one would think that the hon. Minister of Education is probably preparing herself to come and give a statement that would indicate the status after studying fully the unfolding circumstances at the institution. For now, we will leave that issue until we find a suitable time when she can come to make such a statement.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member may continue.
Mr Kakoma: Madam Speaker, a lot of Zambians have complained about Chinese investors and companies. They are now even changing Chinese company names into Zambian names…
Laughter
Mr Kakoma: … without Zambian partners. May I find out what the Government is doing to encourage these Chinese investors to partner with Zambian entrepreneurs in order to develop the Chambishi Multi-facility Economic Zone.
Mr Taima: Madam Speaker, I am aware that we have a good number of Zambians that have partnered with not only the Chinese, but several other foreign investors in different ventures. However, I might not say as a matter of policy that we will compel every Chinese who comes to Zambia to partner with Zambians for them to invest. Therefore, it is up to us, as Zambians, to be assertive, to look around and see who these prospective investors are and offer to partner with them.
The hon. Member of Parliament may want to appreciate that I attended a business round table in Italy, a week or two ago, where the Italians expressed their willingness to come and invest in Zambia. They would like to come and invest in Zambia, but ride on partnerships with Zambians. Unless Zambians rise and offer viable business proposals that can attract investment, investors will not come hunting for them.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, what are the total investment pledges for all the ten companies that the hon. Minister has mentioned?
Madam Deputy Speaker: Are you asking about the figures that were given.
Mr Malama: Yes!
Madam Deputy Speaker: The figures were given.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out what the Government is doing to compel Chinese investors to respect Zambian labour laws. When they were giving the mine in Luanshya to the Chinese, I told them that one of the reasons I did not want the Chinese investors was that they gave people contracts. …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Mr Kambwili: Today, the Chinese investor at the mine in Luanshya has employed people on a six-month contract. What is this Government doing to compel them …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Kambwili: Iwe chongo ka Daka ulufumo!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member may wish to bring that question substantively.
Mr Kambwili: Aah!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Madam Speaker, from the look of things, I think we are sick and tired of this country, China.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chazangwe: Wherever you go, be it on the roads, it is China.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chazangwe: For a clinic to be built in my constituency, it is China.
Hon. opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chazangwe: For a high school to be built in my constituency, it is China.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chazangwe: What is wrong with this Government?
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Chazangwe: What is wrong this Government and China?
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I think that we have to take the House a little more seriously so that we can make progress. This kind of encouragement for a hon. Member on the Floor has instead become a discouragement because the Chair cannot hear what the hon. Member is saying. Remember that the Chair may choose not to ask the person to repeat the question. That ruling will apply in the case of the previous hon. Member who wanted a response from the hon. Minister. Therefore, we better be careful so that the hon. Member on the Floor is given an opportunity to ask his question. The hon. Minister can respond if he heard the question.
Hon. Opposition Members: He heard!
Mr Taima: Madam Speaker, generally, I think it was a statement of fact that China is doing so much to help Zambia develop.
Interruptions
Mr Taima: Basically, that is what he said. He said everywhere he goes, he finds the Chinese building hospitals and constructing roads.
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Mr Taima: They are the only true partners of the Government of the Republic of Zambia who are trying to rebuild this nation. Therefore, we must be thankful to the Chinese for that.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
YOUTH SKILLS TRAINING IN KASAMA
226. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development when the ministry would introduce the youth skills training programme for street kids at the Zambia National Service (ZNS) camp at Chishimba in Kasama District on a similar arrangement as the programme at the ZNS camp at Chiwoko in Katete District.
The Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Ms Cifire): Madam Speaker, the Government, through my ministry, has plans to expand the Street Children Rehabilitation and Re-integration Programme in order to enable the majority of our young people acquire skills for them to become self-reliant and productive members of society.
As soon as we mobilise adequate resources, my ministry will start the rehabilitation of facilities at Chishimba Zambia National Service (ZNS) camp in Kasama, which will be the third ZNS camp for the youth skills training programme. The ministry plans to have at least one youth skills training programme in each district.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out what is happening to children in the northern region since they are not being catered for at present.
Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, contrary to the assertion, we have a number of partners that are running youth skills centres in most parts of the country. At the moment, we have sixteen youth skills centres throughout the country. As stated earlier, our intention is to have one in each district. Therefore, the fact that we have not gone to all the districts does not mean that the skills training centres are not available. They are available although they are being run by other partners like non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and churches.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out why street kids have resurfaced in many corners of Lusaka.
Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muyanda: Is there something wrong with the rehabilitation programme at Chiwoko even though the infrastructure is in place? Has the Government failed to execute this programme?
Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!
Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, the programme has been a success.
Hon. Opposition members: Aah!
Ms Cifire: I think that we need to distinguish the street kids that we are talking about. There are children on the streets that are below the youthful stage that we take to ZNS. Most of these children normally have a home to go to. These children have formed a habit of going to the streets because hon. Members, like the one who spoke, give them money. For such kids, that is an enticement. I am sure that we have taken note of posters that have been done by our colleagues in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, where members of the general public are urged not to give alms to street kids. This is to try and stop them from being on the street.
Madam Speaker, these are two different programmes. Youths taken to ZNS camps to acquire skills are, at the end of the day, supposed to be adults who will be able to get back into society, have families and be very productive members of our communities.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I would like to find whether there are plans by the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development to liaise with the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services to come up with the same package for youth development because there seems to be a duplicity of functions among the three ministries.
Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, I think that the approach to the youth programme that we have in the country is multi-sectoral. Hence, we have partnerships that are being done by ministries like the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services and the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training, where the hon. Member was Deputy Minister not so long ago. The idea is for the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development to provide policy so that the direction is the same for us to have a clear objective for the children of Zambia.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister be specific in telling us the actual date when these training facilities will be introduced at Chishimba Camp rather than telling us that they will be introduced when funds are available, which seems to be a very lame excuse.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, as a Government, we have no intention of making promises that cannot work. I am sure that the hon. Member knows this very well. A few weeks ago, I was in his constituency looking at the youth skills training centres. I met the hon. Member and he was very appreciative of what we are doing as a Government.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Cifire: I am, therefore, surprised that he can come to this House and say this.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Beene (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government has any plans to engage street adults, who are more in number than the street kids, on Lusaka streets, in this programme at ZNS camps as it was in the past.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, as indicated, our ministry is for sport, youth and child development. The intention is to provide direction so that these children grow into responsible youths and adults, and become productive citizens of the country.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Cifire: At adult stage, we take it that if we have the foundation right, we will not have these street adults.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
RENOVATION OF OFFICERS’HOUSES AT MWENSE PRISON
227. Mr Chongo (Mwense) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) which contractor was engaged to renovate and rehabilitate houses for prison officers at Mwense Prison in 2004/2005;
(b) who contracted the labourers that undertook the work at (a) above and
(c) why the labourers above had not yet been paid for the work done and when they would be paid.
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr D. Phiri): Madam Speaker, the Regional Commanding Officer, Luapula Province, contracted the Ministry of Works and Supply to renovate and rehabilitate houses for prison officers at Mwense Prison.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply contracted the labourers that undertook the work. The works involved painting and minor renovations. A total of thirty labourers were involved. The Ministry of Home Affairs regrets the delay in settling the outstanding bill of K9,795,000.00. The ministry shall ensure that the outstanding bill is settled as soon as possible.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chongo: Madam Speaker, it is worrying to note that from 2005 to date, the ministry owes a simple K9 million on account of the human resource department which is in conflict with the accounts department over the money despite the efforts of the provincial and district administration. Can the Hon. Minister assure this House that this money will be paid at least within the next two months?
Dr D. Phiri: Madam Speaker, I absolutely share the concerns of the hon. Member and that is why we are very quick in the answer to regret the delay. We are going to pay the monies as indicated in our response.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Madam Speaker, regret is not sufficient. Considering that five years have passed and the Government has failed to pay K9 million to people who are categorised as poor. Can the hon. Minister tell us which day he will effect this payment for the people who worked on the Mwense Prison?
The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Madam Speaker, as indicated in our answer, indeed, we have to pay this amount within the shortest possible time. I want to indicate that instead of waiting for the question to come to Parliament, if hon. Members of Parliament had a culture of coming to our offices, issues of this nature would have been resolved some time back.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Mangani: Therefore, we expect that when you notice such issues in your constituencies, please come to our offices. This matter could have been resolved some time back. Do not wait until you raise a question in Parliament.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
DAM CONSTRUCTION IN DUNDUMWEZI
228. Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:
(a) when the Government would construct a dam in Omba Ward in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency ; and
(b) why the Government had not constructed a dam at Nkandazovu in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency for the people who were displaced during the construction of the Kariba Dam in the Gwembe Valley.
The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Ms Lundwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform this House that, currently, the ministry is still identifying suitable sites for dam construction in all areas of Southern Province. Depending on the availability of funds, this exercise is expected to be completed by 2010. However, a new dam is proposed for construction in Omba Ward in 2010.
Madam Speaker, as I had stated earlier, my ministry is assessing areas that are suitable for dam construction which include Nkandazovu in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency. Not all areas in the country are suitable for dam construction and, therefore, alternative water conservation facilities will have to be made available in such areas. With regard to the displaced people as a result of the construction of Kariba Dam, I am happy to state that the Gwembe Tonga Project constructed a school and twelve staff houses in the area. The school was seen as a priority by the people.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, in 1958…
Mr Malama: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Education in order to remain quiet without addressing a very serious problem in rural areas where teachers have resorted to using dried cassava as chalk? I need your very serious ruling.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I know that the hon. Member started with the words, “This is a very serious point of order.”
Hon. Members, let us know that there many channels of communication. I do not know if a school is using cassava as chalk in Kaputa. If that is the case, then the hon. Minister must be made aware of it. Make the hon. Minister aware instead of just talking like that. What statement can the hon. Minister make? Let us take the House a little more seriously.
Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I was just saying that in 1958, 57,000 people were possibly removed from the Gwembe Valley. A good fraction of those people are settled in Nkandazovu. Among other things which they were promised is water. May I know exactly whether the people of Nkandazovu will be provided with a dam within the year that the hon. Minister has mentioned.
Ms Lundwe: Madam Speaker, I stated that we will look into the matter and the construction will be done in 2010. As a starting point, we started by drilling four boreholes just to help the people in the area.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister as to what happened to the leftover funds from the Gwembe Tonga Project. Where is the money?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Lundwe: I believe that is a new question.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
ROAD TAX AND VEHICLES REGISTRATION AT BORDER POINTS
229. Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:
(a) whether there were any plans to introduce the issuance of road tax and motor vehicle registration certificates and insurance payments at border entry points apart from the Zambia Revenue Authority offices in Lusaka or Ndola; and
(b) if so, when the arrangement at (a) above would be implemented to reduce congestion at the ZRA offices.
The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I wish to mention that the Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA) uses a computerised system called the Zambia Transport Information System (ZAMTIS) to issue road tax and undertakes registration of motor vehicles and trailers. Other than in Lusaka and Ndola, currently, RTSA is issuing the toad tax and registration certificates at four border points namely Chirundu, Kariba, Katima Mulilo and Kazungula where computerisation and connectivity of the offices has been done.
Madam, the computerisation of RTSA is still going on and the system is expected to be rolled out to other border points not yet computerised. Other than the four border points already operating on ZAMTIS, three other border points namely Kasumbalesa, Mwami and Nakonde have been computerised and are only awaiting appropriate connectivity to start running on the system. Once all border points are computerised, the road tax and vehicle registration will be done at all border entry points.
Madam Speaker, I wish to mention, here, that even though RTSA is able to issue the road tax and registration certificates at some border entry points, they do not issue first registration certificates for vehicles at any border entry point. This is because the process requires that Interpol clears the vehicle through the issuance of an Interpol Clearance Certificate (ICC).
Currently, Interpol does not issue clearance certificates at border points. Once Interpol is able to do so, RTSA will also be able to issue the first registration certificates of vehicles through the same computerised system.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, may the hon. Minister inform this House when Interpol will have these registration certificates issued at the entry point?
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I am unable to answer that question. Maybe, it should be raised as a new question to the Government.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, when councils, as agencies, were given the task of collecting road taxes on behalf of the Government, there was no congestion. Is the Government considering giving back the task to the councils?
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, yes, the Government is making that consideration. However, the first step is to improve the current computerised system. Once that has been done, the system is going to be rolled over to other possible agencies which may include councils, banks and other agencies. This should sort out the problem of congestion.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
EXAMINATION CENTRES IN ZAMBEZI EAST AND MWINILUNGA EAST
230. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) to ask the Minister of Education when the following schools in Zambezi East and Mwinilunga East Parliamentary constituencies would be accorded examination centre status:
(i) Kaumbu High;
(ii) Chinyingi High;
(iii) Chitokoloki High;
(iv) Nkenyauli Middle Basic;
(v) Kazosu Middle Basic;
(vi) Kamanengu Middle Basic;
(vii) Nyangombe High; and
(viii) Kanyama High.
The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Madam Speaker, the schools in question will be accorded examination centres status as follows:
Kaumbu High School
The school will be accorded examination centre status after approval by the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ), this year, as it now has a strong room, steel trunks and secure rooms with burglar bars for storage of examination materials.
Chinyingi High School
Since the school now has a strong room, steel trunks and secure rooms with burglar bars, an application for it to be granted examination centre status has been processed awaiting approval by the ECZ. The school will be accorded the examination centre status once the approval has been granted.
Chitokoloki High School
The school is already an established examination centre for internal, academic production unit (APU) and general certificate education (GCE) candidates. The centre has been operational since 2002.
Nkenyauli Middle Basic School
The school now has a strong room, steel trunks and rooms secured with burglar bars. This year, 2009, it applied for an external Grade 9 examination centre status and the application is being processed for submission to the ECZ for approval. The school will be accorded the examination centre status once the ECZ has approved the application.
Kazozu Middle Basic School
The school has applied for an external Grade 9 examination centre status and the application is being processed for submission to the ECZ. The school will be accorded the examination centre status after the application has been fully processed.
Nyangombe High School
Applications were made in 2006 and 2008 to have it granted the examination centre status, but could not be approved because the school did not have a science laboratory even though other requirements had been met. The school now has a laboratory which is in use and re-application for the school to be granted examination centre status has been made and resubmitted to the ECZ for consideration. The school will be accorded examination centre status after approval by ECZ.
Kanyama High School
Application for the school to be granted examination centre status is being processed for submission to the ECZ.
Kamanengu Middle Basic School
This school has made an application for an external Grade 9 examination centre status and the application is being processed for submission to the ECZ.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Katuka: Madam Speaker, I have noticed that all the applications are being considered for approval. May I know how long it will take for approval to be given from the time of application to the time the examination centre status will be awarded?
Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, the process should not, necessarily, take long as long as the school has met the set out criteria to be accorded a status of an examination centre. This includes having permanent structures, secure rooms, enough teachers and students. The only rule is that the application must be made by June of the preceding year when students will be allowed to write examinations at that centre. Normally, it should not take long. In cases where it takes long, it is because some of these schools have not met the criteria required as we indicated in one of the schools which did not have a science laboratory even though it met the other requirements in the set criteria.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, the problem of lack of examination centres in rural areas, including Zambezi which has been mentioned, is very serious. Pupils have to walk for two days to get to an examination centre making them very exhausted by the time they sit for their examinations. This, consequently, contributes to the high failure rate. May I know what the Ministry of Education is doing to resolve the problem of examination centres in rural areas instead of demanding for strong rooms and so on, when this Government is not providing funds to for their construction?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!
Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the concerns raised by the hon. Member of Parliament. Currently, we have a total of 9,122 examination centres in the country which are, obviously, inadequate to meet the needs of the school going persons. It is our intention to work with as many schools as possible to turn them into examination centres and other institutions that can serve the community. In fact, in our new approach to building community schools, the design that we have preferred has an already in-built strong room to ensure that when the school is built, from the beginning, it already has the qualifications to acquire examination centre status. However, for those schools that were built in the past and do not have these facilities, we are trying to work with them as closely as possible so that they can fulfil the necessary requirements. In turn, we will avoid malpractices, in the end, and we can have free and fair examinations.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, nearly all parts of this country have been affected by the non-availability of examination centres, Chilubi included. This poses more disadvantages than advantages to the sitting candidates. May I know the root cause of this development?
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister may choose to answer although the question was on specific schools.
Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, as I stated earlier, we recognise that we have inadequate examination centres in the country. In fact, as part of the Government’s vision, we prefer to have an education and health institution within a four to five kilometre radius. However, in some cases, schools do not just have the infrastructure and in other cases where schools have the infrastructure, they do not meet the requirements to be turned into examination centres. However, we are doing everything possible. In some areas, we are even working with hon. Members of Parliament to see what we can do for these schools and other institutions to meet the requirements to enable them become examinations centres. This way, we will make it easier for pupils to be near examination centres at the time of writing examinations.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chazangwe: Madam Speaker, the number of schools in this constituency is big. Currently, what temporal measures is the Ministry of Education putting in place in order to assist pupils that have no examination centres where to write examinations from?
Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member who has asked the question is referring to Mwinilunga East, like I said, we recognise that there are not enough examination centres, but we must also bear in mind the security that is required for us to, properly, carryout the examination process. We have had a lot of complaints from the public on examination leakages and examination papers missing so we need to strike this balance. However, we do appreciate the concerns raised by the hon. Members that we have to make sure that we reduce the distances, as much as possible, for those who are going to sit for their examinations.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
SQUATTERS IN NANGOMA
231. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Lands what plans the Government had for the squatters in Nakasaka Ward in the Kalundu area of Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency.
The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Mabenga): Madam Speaker, …
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Mabenga: … the Government policy is that of not allowing unauthorised settlements…
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Mabenga: ... by any person and the responsibility to remove any unauthorised settler lies with the owner of that particular land. Most of the land in Nangoma Constituency is customary and occupants of customary land are not squatters, but settlers.
Madam Speaker, in the case of settlers in Nakasaka Ward in the Kalundu area of the Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency, the settlers are on the Mushingashi Forest Reserve, which makes them squatters. The mandate of dealing with forest reserves lies with the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources who either de-gazette the forest and legalise the squatter’s stay or remove these people from the forest reserve depending on the merit of the case.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, from the answer given, I take it that the ministry has no plans for people who are either displaced or have no land. I believe that the people we are talking about are Zambians. Can the hon. Minister state, clearly, how his Government intends to protect such people who he refers to as squatters because they are Zambians.
Mr Mabenga: Madam Speaker, what I have explained here is the difference between a squatter and a settler. I have said that a settler is one who builds on private land and it is the owner of that land who should make arrangements to remove that person. A squatter is a person who builds, like I have referred to, on forest land.
Madam Speaker, forest land is one administered by the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. If the hon. Member has a problem with that, what we are saying is that he can go to the ministry and find a way of resolving that matter. That is the explanation I gave.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, the new hon. Minister has not answered the question that has been asked by the hon. Member. The question was if the ministry had a deliberate policy to settle or offer land to people it termed as squatters. Can you explain hon. Minister?
The Minister of Lands (Mr Daka): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member who has asked the question is a councillor and land is administered on behalf of the ministry by councils. The planning of these settlements is done by councils and so whatever happens in the districts comes to us to either be approved or disapproved. However, the planning for the distribution of land in all the districts is done by councils.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
ORPHANS AND VULNERABLE CHILDREN POLICY
232. Ms Kapata (Mandevu) asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development when the Government would introduce a policy on orphans and vulnerable children (OVCs).
Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, the Government, through my ministry, launched the revised National Child Policy in 2006. The revision of the policy was done in order to address emerging issues which affect child development in Zambia. Some of the emerging issues include, among other things; child abuse, HIV/AIDS, orphans and vulnerable children.
Madam Speaker, since the revised National Child Policy adequately addresses all child related matters, including orphans and vulnerable children (OVCs), there is no need for us to have a separate policy.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Ms Kapata: Madam Speaker, in view of the rampant HIV/AIDS related diseases and deaths, I would like to find out whether the Government has any intentions to open up OVC centres, countrywide, in order to reduce on child-headed homes.
Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, as indicated, we have a policy on that and, as a ministry, policy indicates what we have, as a Government, on issues of OVCs taking into cognisance that this is as a result of the HIV/AIDS pandemic. As a ministry, we have offered a direction by putting all these things in place and all the non-governmental organisations (NGOs), churches and other partners that are helping us are doing this for us to be able to address the problem at hand.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}
CONSTRUCTION OF MODERN MARKET AT CHIWEMPALA
233. Dr Katema (Chingola) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing whether the ministry had any plans to build a modern market at Chiwempala in Chingola Parliamentary constituency and, if so, when the construction of the said market would commence.
The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Puma): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government has plans to build public markets in all the districts in Zambia, including Chingola where Chiwempala is found. Currently, my ministry is implementing the Market Rehabilitation and Maintenance Programme whose objective is to repair, rehabilitate and maintain existing markets in all the districts.
Madam Speaker, in recent years, my ministry has expanded this demand-driven programme to cover the small-scale construction of public markets in some districts, though Chingola, on the Copperbelt, is not one of the districts that have already benefited from this exercise. The only towns on the Copperbelt that have benefited from this arrangement include, but are not limited to Mpongwe and the Mufulira districts that received K51,182,000 and over K180,000,000 respectively.
Madam Speaker, it is therefore, important that the Chingola Municipal Council prioritises the construction of a modern market in the Chiwempala area. The same must appear in the councils’ annual work plan for the ministry to consider funding the project. Other councils such as Lusaka, Kitwe and Ndola have benefited from the European Union (EU) funding in partnership with the Government project which has seen the construction of modern markets in the three cities as follows:
Market Cos t (K ‘b n)
Lusaka 40
Kitwe 13.7
Ndola 14
Madam Speaker, markets in Lusaka and Kitwe have since been completed, where as construction of markets in Ndola is still on going.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Katema: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what criteria is used to choose markets for rehabilitation since the Chingola Municipal Council has been putting the rehabilitation of Chiwempala Market, year in and year out, in its annual plans.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Let us consult more quietly.
Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, the construction and rehabilitation of markets is a demand- driven programme where we look at the work plans of the various councils and the resources available. From there, we prioritise and see which markets will be constructed or rehabilitated first.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell me how the funding will be done for these markets. Will it be sent directly to the markets or it will go through the councils?
Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, the funding to the councils will depend on the nature of the project. If the project is big like the ones that I have already mentioned such as Lusaka, Ndola and Kitwe, we have been handling these at the national level through the tender processes at the national tender board. For smaller markets, we send the money straight to the councils and they do the tendering at the local level and construction is done that way.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, according to the answer that the hon. Minister has given, Mufulira is one of the towns that has benefited from this programme. Is he aware that the market in Mufulira is not complete and that the K180 million is enough to construct a modern market?
The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tetamashimba): Madam Speaker, just last week, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira was in my office and we discussed the issue …
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: … of how to go round constructing the market. That is the best way to do things. However, coming to the issue at hand, we gave the money to the council because, every year, the councils are supposed to include such things in their work plans. They need to tell us how they would want to complete their modern markets. I remember telling the hon. Member of Parliament, together with his town clerk, that since we are going to decentralise, they should plan so that every year, when money is sent from the centre straight to their councils, they will be able to complete the construction of their modern markets. I am surprised that the hon. Member of Parliament can come and start arguing on the Floor.
Hon. Government Members: H ear, hear!
Mr Mwenya: Madam Speaker, I would like to get clarification from the hon. Minister on how the funding is going to be for these markets, especially that market boards are going to be introduced.
Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I have already mentioned how the funding to the markets is done. Big projects are funded centrally and for smaller projects, funds are sent to the councils. So I do not understand the question.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, it has been observed that the Government only attaches importance to building modern markets in urban areas. May I know when the Government will extend its hand to the rural people?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, the construction of markets is an on-going programme and some of the rural districts have already benefited from it. As I have already mentioned, this is a demand-driven programme which should start by the councils including it in their annual work plans. With the availability of funds, more markets will benefit from the programme as we go on.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Members, it is getting very difficult to follow what is happening. Each one of you is busy consulting freely and loudly. This is not right. Let us be part of the House. If there is a need to consult or talk, do it quietly so that those who are interested can follow debate and the Chair can also follow the debate. It has not been good the whole afternoon. Can you reduce on these loud consultations and commentaries.
ELECTRIFICATION OF MASASABI RESETTLEMENT SCHEME
234. Mr Beene asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when the Government would electrify the Masasabi Resettlement Scheme in Itezhi-tezhi Parliamentary Constituency.
The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Mbewe): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Masasabi Resettlement Scheme is connected to the national grid. This is through a 21 kilometre Zesco line running from the main road up to the Masasabi administration block. Buildings such as the school, clinic, hammer mills and houses in the area are electrified.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Ms Lundwe: Hear, hear!
Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Minister, a transformer has been put in one of the corners of a big resettlement scheme which is catering for more than fifty commercial farmers. Can he confirm that is bad service to the people of Itezhi-tezhi and incompetence on the part of those who are supposed to do the work?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question though he is becoming emotional, …
Laughter
Mr Mbewe: … but I want to assure him that we have done good work. Right now, we are waiting for the customers to pay so that power can be connected to their various homes.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
POLICE OFFICERS IN RURAL AREAS COUNTRYWIDE
235. Ms Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) when the risk allowance for police officers in rural areas countrywide would be increased;
(b) whether there were any plans to provide police officers in rural areas with housing; and
(c) what measures had been taken to equip police officers in rural areas to enable them handle dangerous criminals.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, the risk allowance for officers has been abolished and has become an integral part of the salary. Currently, no police officer is getting a risk allowance. Before abolition, risk allowance was availed to all police officers whether in urban or rural areas.
As regards part (b), the Government has embarked on a programme of building and buying houses for police officers countrywide. Currently, this is being done in Ndola, Livingstone, Chipata and Kasama. Rural areas are also going to benefit.
As for part (c), the Government has in this year’s Budget allocated funds for the procurement of bullet proof vests for police officers in both urban and rural areas. The number of officers we are losing at the hands of criminals is increasing and is a source of concern.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Ms Limata: Madam Speaker, I have heard the hon. Minister say that risk allowance has been abolished. Now, is this Government not increasing crime in the country by not paying police officers enough money in terms of salaries?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Quality!
Laughter
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for showing concern. However, the answer earlier was straight forward. We have said that it was abolished, but is an integral part of the salary. This means that the risk allowance is now part of an officer’s salary.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s answer that the risk allowance has now been included in the salary, I would like to find out whether the Government has taken into consideration what happens when police officers are actually hurt and the low levels of compensation they get. Furthermore, has the Government also explored the possibility of getting insurance cover for police officers for such kind of risks?
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I am thankful for that brilliant question. Yes indeed, I can confirm that we have taken into account the aspect of the risks involved and the issues of insurance have also been looked at. I can also confirm that we have taken very seriously the issue of the risks arising from accidents.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, the issue of bullet proof vests for police officers has been discussed in this House for a number of years. Is the Government assuring this House that this year it will buy bullet proof vests for police officers?
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, once again I thank the hon. Member for that important question. I can confirm to this House that in the Yellow Book for this year we have set aside some money for the procurement of bullet proof vests as well as other equipment such as that used for riot purposes. The process of procuring the bullet proof vests has commenced and is going well.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Home Affairs confirm that having constructed a police post in my constituency five years ago, which has not yet been opened, the Government will now proceed to build houses for police officers who are yet to be assigned to that police post.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, again I am thankful for that important question. Our earlier answer did touch on the fact that we are constructing houses for police officers and that construction of such houses will take part in many parts of the country. We cited a number of areas that are benefiting from this programme and I do hope that in the near future the police post in question will benefit from the same programme.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, since the Ninth National Assembly to date, the Ministry of Home Affairs has been promising to equip the police with a helicopter in order to track down dangerous criminals. May I know when this helicopter will be bought because we have been waiting for over nine years now?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, as soon as the hon. Member supports our budget to buy this helicopter, we will do so.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Home Affairs confirm that the reason the risk allowance was integrated into the salary was because it was embarrassingly pegged at K1,500?
Laughter
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, I cannot confirm that, but what is important is that we need to put all of these allowances together. What is essential is the take home pay of our officers.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Interruptions
ESTABLISHMENT OF POLICE POSTS IN KANCHIBIYA
236. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) when police posts would be established in the following chiefdoms in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency:
(i) Chief Chiundaponde; and
(ii) Senior Chief Kopa; and
(b) when police officers would be deployed to man the police posts at (a) above.
Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, all constituencies are in dire need of police posts but due to limited resources allocated for the construction of police infrastructure, all 150 constituencies cannot benefit at the same time. The construction of police posts and housing units is done in phases and is ongoing.
The House may wish to know that the construction of police posts depends on the following factors:
(i) availability of funds;
(ii) population of the area;
(iii) distance from the main police station; and
(iv) economic activities in the area.
During this fiscal year, the ministry will not start the construction of new police stations and posts, but will continue with old projects.
Madam Speaker, my ministry is encouraging communities to mobilise themselves and work with their area hon. Members of Parliament to use Constituency Development Funds (CDFs) to build police posts in strategic areas as has been done in Mandevu Constituency.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Phiri left his microphone on.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Switch off your microphone, please.
Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs encouraging hon. Members of Parliament to build police posts, is the Government considering supplementing constituency efforts? For example, we have built police posts in my constituency. What is the Government’s commitment in the coming budget in terms of supplementing what has been done?
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, our commitment is to provide officers in those police posts that we have built.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwango: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out what measures the ministry is putting in place in the interim whilst they are looking for money to curb the high rate of crime in the constituency?
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, we are sensitising the community to avoid committing crimes, and you, as an hon. Member of Parliament should encourage your community.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s answer in which he tabulated the requirements for a place to qualify for a police post, chiefs Chiundaponde and Kopa’s areas do qualify. Would I, therefore, learn from the hon. Minister when he will consider putting up police posts in these two areas?
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member followed the answer very well, we indicated that we cannot construct police posts in all the 150 constituencies, but that it will be done in phases. However, for the time being, if the hon. Member has a bit of money from the CDF, you can kick start project and then we will help you with officers.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Katema: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that construction of police posts and police stations will be done in phases, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister in what phase chiefs Chiundaponde and Kopa areas are?
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, the phase will depend on what we have indicated in our answer which includes the following:
(i) the availability of funds;
(ii) the population of the area which, I think, the area Member of Parliament knows;
(iii) the distance from the main police station and;
(iv) the economic activities of the area.
Please, make sure that you determine properly that a particular area requires a police post, then we shall move in to support you.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}
RENTING OF COUNCIL BUILDINGS BY GOVERNMENT
237. Mr Mweemba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:
(a) how many council buildings were being rented by Government ministries in the following towns:
(i) Livingstone;
(ii) Lusaka;
(iii) Ndola; and
(iv) Kitwe; and
(b) how much money, in rentals, was owed by the Government to the councils in the towns at (a) above from 2005 to-date.
Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that according to the information we have, there are no properties rented by government ministries in Livingstone, Kitwe and Ndola towns.
However, there are thirteen properties rented by government ministries in Lusaka. To-date, Lusaka City Council is owed about K2.5 billion in rentals by various ministries. The ministry has directed Lusaka City Council to write to the Lusaka Province Permanent Secretary indicating the debt incurred by government ministries with the view of asking the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to settle it.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mweemba: Madam Speaker, experience is the best teacher. I worked in the Lusaka City Council for twenty-seven years in-charge of collecting rates. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister regarding the building along Church Road which the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is renting, the Government has made an extension to it without the authority of the Lusaka City Council, meaning that the rental …
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member may ask a follow up question on the question he asked.
Mr Mweemba: … why did the Government make an extension to the building without the consent of the Lusaka City Council?
Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Speaker, I want to agree that my ministry rents its offices from the Lusaka City Council. I also want to agree that we made extensions, especially to the offices that accommodate the Minister and Permanent Secretary.
I also want to inform the hon. Member of Parliament that there is no building in the country that can be built without getting permission from the council which also gets approval from the hon. Minister. I can, therefore, assure you that even if the extensions have been put up by us, the procedure was followed.
In terms of rentals, you may wish to know that my ministry has been very kind to the Lusaka City Council in terms of grants. For instance, last year, I think we gave them over a billion kwacha in terms of grants. Therefore, if you can get more than a billion kwacha of grant funds from your mother, how can you charge your mother K200,000?
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Interruptions
Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing when he is settling the rental arrears because that was an agreement which has nothing to do with the grants?
Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Speaker …
Mr Kambwili: First akashite ama hearses.
Mr Tetamashimba: … I can assure you that both the current and previous administrations have been settling the rental arrears that we have incurring by being in that building. However, one thing that I would want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament is that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing will be the last person to fail to pay what belongs to Lusaka City Council through rentals.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Ntundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the K1 billion which they gave to the Lusaka City Council was a grant, I would like him to confirm to this House that, actually, that K1 billion was not a grant, but a debt swap.
Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Speaker, it was not a debt swap, but a grant. What is owed to the council will still be paid by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, rentals are rentals, but there are also rates and there are also grants in lieu of rates. Last time we were looking at a lot more in the total amount of money owed by the Government to Lusaka City Council than the K2.5 billion. Could the hon. Minister give us the full story for the benefit of the nation and the House?
Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Speaker …
Hon. Opposition Members: Ask Masebo to explain for you.
Mr Tetamashimba: … I am surprised that the councillor for Lusaka City Council who is just a stone throw from our office has never had time to come and find out about the rates and other payments that are due to the council.
Madam Speaker, it is just fair that we give to the councils what we owe them. We give grants in lieu to councils without considering what we are owed as a ministry.
Madam Speaker, I can assure you that even when you look at the budget, you will find a provision for the payment of rentals. However, people must also be aware that the ministry has had problems in terms of finances. This is as a result of the Government deciding to spend more on other priority areas. Are the priorities to pay rentals instead of us buying medicines for the Zambian people? The answer is no. I think that since the payment of rentals is in the budget and money being available, the time will come when we will settle them.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
REOPENING OF CO-OPERATIVE BANK
238. Mr Kakusa (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives when the Co-operative Bank would be reopened to support farming investments.
The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Madam Speaker, the Co-operative Bank will reopen as soon as the Government pays the outstanding K30.1 billion out of the initial K60 billion owed to the Zambia Co-operatives Federation (ZCF). The settlement of the K30.1 billion is awaiting the verification of the figure by the Auditor-General and clearance by the Attorney-General.
Thank you, Madam.
Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam, I think virtually all agricultural credit institutions which this country has ever put in place, whether it is land bank, call it organisation of Zambia, Lima Bank and Co-operative Bank, have all gone bankrupt because they have lent money which is not being, essentially, repaid. What medicine, magic and juju does the ministry now have…
Laughter
Dr Scott: … that will make it reopen the Co-operative Bank of this town? A co-operative bank that can flourish.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Chituwo): Madam, the role of agricultural credit banks needs to be appreciated. From history, we have learnt very good lessons with regard to instilling discipline in our citizens who get credit. Since our motivation is to empower a small-scale farmer and prioritise agriculture as the vehicle for socio-economic development, we cannot give up, but try to find a remedy for those bottlenecks that have been identified from our history. Our history shows that we do not have a good lending culture.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC: Madam Speaker, regarding the fact that this bank closed more than a decade ago, may the hon. Minister tell us whether it will take another ten years to verify Government’s indebtedness to the Zambia Co-operative Federation (ZCF)?
Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, I am convinced, it will not take a decade to have this bank reopened. As a matter of fact, the Attorney-General is already verifying this credit that we have. If the hon. Member for Chasefu can bring another question in terms of the details, we will be able to provide the answer.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Matongo (Pemba): Madam Speaker, it is always exciting to have a revival of the Co-operative Bank debt. There is K30 billion at stake as of now. Somebody must pay the K30 billion in order to revive this bank. Could the hon. Minister be a little clearer so that we can give him advice on how to handle this money and come up with the management and board for the bank, thereafter? Will the bank be ran strictly under the Financial Services Act? I need clear answers.
Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, this bank is under liquidation and so what we are doing is paying the liquidator. When that is done, then certainly the normal procedures of reopening a bank will be followed.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, both the hon. Deputy Minister and of course the hon. Minister in their answers alluded to the fact that they are waiting for the clearance of the Attorney-General. Since when did this Government start taking the Attorney-General’s advice seriously since in a recent case, we were told that his advice is not mandatory?
Laughter
Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Roan is getting a bit confused.
Mr Kambwili: No.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: It is you who is confused.
Dr Chituwo: I have provided the answer as requested by the hon. Member for Kabwe Central and there is no ambiguity in it. Therefore, bringing in an unrelated matter is not necessary. As far as we are concerned, we continue to receive expert advice from the Attorney-General’s Office and that is how it will be.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kambwili: When it suits you.
FISH AND CATTLE RESTOCKING IN CHIFUNABULI
239. Mr E. C. Mwansa (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:
(a) when the fish restocking programme would commence at Lake Chifunabuli in Samfya District;
(b) how much money the exercise above would cost; and
(c) when the cattle restocking programme in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency would begin.
The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Madam Speaker, at the moment, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Department of Fisheries) has no plans to restock Lake Chifunabuli in Samfya District with fish. Restocking of a natural water body is a very expensive and complicated exercise. It requires heavy Government investment such as material, financial and human resources in terms of the construction of hatcheries for fingerling production. Other requirements include equipment for patrols such as speed boats and outboard engines, extension staff and operation funds for monitoring, control and surveillance.
Therefore, Madam Speaker, the restocking exercise requires close examination from both the research and management aspects. Both biological and socio-economic research should be conducted to determine the causes and suggest mitigation measures. Finally, good management measures or strategies have to be instituted in order to allow the fish to grow big and rebuild the fish stock levels.
With the current budget and staffing levels in the Department of Fisheries, it is not advisable to undertake a restocking exercise of Lake Chifunabuli or any other natural water body. What is recommended is to improve the management of water bodies, based on biological and socio-economic research considerations.
As regards part (b), because of the above situation, we have not gone into determining the actual cost of such a fish restocking exercise.
Madam Speaker, cattle restocking is and will be done only in those areas where a lot of cattle have died as a result of major diseases and livelihoods of concerned farmers have been affected. The restocking programme will only be carried out once the major diseases have been controlled and brought to manageable levels.
On the other hand, in areas where there have been no cattle, the programme to be implemented is not cattle restocking, but cattle stocking, that is, introduction of cattle in those areas through breeding centres and our provision of cattle artificial insemination services.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwansa: Madam Speaker, the answer that has been given by the hon. Deputy Minister, clearly, shows that this Government does not have the interest and concern for the people of Chifunabuli who are generally fishermen and will require to live on that fish. Could that hon. Minister tell me what plans are in place for the programme that he is talking about to ensure that the fish that are in the lakes are enabled to grow in numbers?
Mr Mulonga: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I thank the Hon. Member for that follow-up question. This Government is very responsible for its people.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mulonga: There are two methods of stocking water bodies. The first one is the one that I have just talked about and the second one is the natural method which we usually apply during the November, December and January period. During this period, we restrict the fishing in the lakes so that the fish can naturally breed. That is done where we do not have enough resources to do the other method of restocking. Therefore, for Chifunabuli, we are applying the first method of natural restocking and when we have enough resources, we will go for the second one.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, fish restocking is very important. May I know what happened to the money that was set aside, amounting to K18 billion, which was meant for restocking fish in Lake Bangweulu?
Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, unfortunately, as a ministry, we are not aware of that money. However, if the hon. Member of Parliament has enough information, he can come to our office to share it with us.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): The Government, through various ministers, has consistently assured this House that restocking of the fisheries which have been depleted in the country will be done. These sentiments were repeated by Hon. Sikatana, Hon. Kapita and others. I may forgive the hon. Deputy Minister who may not have been here, but this has been the position of the Government over the last several years. Is the hon. Deputy Minister telling us that all those assurances meant nothing or were just to hoodwink the House?
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Madam Deputy Speaker: To hoodwink?
Mr Kambwili: Iwe, Minister wama sabi, what is your answer?
The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Livestock and Fisheries)(Mr Machila): Madam Speaker, …
Business was suspended from 1610 hours until 1630 hours.
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER
in the Chair]
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I wish to assure the House that there has been absolutely no change in the Government’s policy with regard to the Fish Restocking Programme. Hon. Members will appreciate that this exercise entails the expenditure and utilisation of large sums of money. What the hon. Deputy Minister has said is that the exercise is not being undertaken at this particular moment partly because of financial constraints.
In addition to the issue of restocking natural water bodies, hon. Members will appreciate that such an exercise would also necessitate that we impose an extended ban on fishing in that particular natural water body. However, before we can undertake that kind of measure, we are working to see what we can do in terms of getting those fishermen that are operating in some of these natural bodies to participate in aquaculture initiatives so that they have other means to sustain themselves during the period when an extended ban would be imposed following the restocking of one of these natural water bodies.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, in response to part (c) of the question, the hon. Deputy Minister categorically stated that cattle restocking only takes place where cattle has been decimated by diseases and they would only restock when diseases have been eliminated. This has been the song of this Government for many years. May I know what programme of action this Government has to eliminate diseases in places such as my constituency and, indeed, the whole of Western and Southern provinces where cattle rearing is a major industry that can minimise poverty?
Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, the issue of cattle restocking is one that we, as a Government, take very seriously. The issue of restocking in areas that are still challenged in terms of diseases is a very straightforward one. It does not make sense for us to be restocking in areas where we have not yet been able to get on top of the disease burden in those particular areas.
In addition, the hon. Deputy Minister, in his response, had also stated that we are looking at areas that are not facing challenges in terms of diseases so that we can also commence cattle stocking in those particular areas.
With regard to the other issues that the hon. Member has just mentioned pertaining to his constituency and Western Province as a whole and extending to the Southern Province, those are on-going programmes that we are attending to, as a Government.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, coming back to the issue of fish, the simple answer seems to be that there is no money. I am surprised that the hon. Minister did not just say this and also add the information as to which of the two hon. Ministers is now going to lose their job because increasing the number of hon. Ministers while decreasing the availability of money seems to be very bad management of the economy.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: That was a comment.
Laughter
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether there has been any inventory taken on cattle and what disease burden was found in Chifunabuli.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, at the risk of misleading the House, I would have to come back with a response on that one.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Matongo (Pemba): Madam Speaker, firstly, the hon. Minister was very clear when he said that there was no need to restock where the disease burden had not been cleared. Will restocking where there is no disease burden be introduced? I would also like the hon. Minister to tell us what has happened to the K2 billion that was meant for cattle restocking in Southern Province. I would like to know to what use it was put to because, clearly, this Government has postponed the cattle restocking exercise in Southern Province. If the hon. Minister…
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives.
Mr Matongo: …does not give a categorical answer…
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You have asked your question.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is correct when he makes reference to the intention to undertake cattle stocking in areas that are not challenged in terms of disease outbreaks. With regards to the second part of his question on the K2 billion, I do not have an answer right on my fingertips. Again, at the risk of misleading this House, I agree to revert.
I thank you, Madam.
Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Madam Speaker, it has been observed that the incidence of bilharzia has increased in the Lake Mweru area because the fish stock that was feeding on snails has depleted. I am aware that the then hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, Hon. Sikatana, pronounced himself quite vigorously on the Floor of this House that he would begin the exercise of re-stocking partially on Lake Mweru Wantipa. What is the time line that you are working on to restock both lakes, particularly with species that would control snails?
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, in terms of the specific time line, this is done under advice from various experts and specialists dealing with the matter. Suffice to say, I wish to restate that it is still the Government’s policy to undertake fish restocking in due course.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Bwalya (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the Government has any plans to set up a vaccine centre so that we can produce our own vaccines for our animals unlike a situation where we have to import these vaccines since they are very expensive.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I think that the issue of having a facility to construct vaccines came before this House in the not too distant past. What we stated then, and we will restate now, is that currently the centre for the manufacturing of vaccines for the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region is in Botswana and until such time that we can justify the economics of us establishing our own, we will not have our own facility.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
________ {mospagebreak}
BILLS
FIRST READING
THE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP BILL, 2009
The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Public-Private Partnership Bill, 2009. The objects of the Bill are to:
(a) promote and facilitate the implementation of privately financed infrastructure projects and effective delivery of social services by enhancing transparency, fairness and long term sustainability and removing undesirable restrictions on private sector participation in the provision of social sector services and the development and operation of public infrastructure;
(b) establish a Public-Private Partnership Unit and provide for its functions;
(c) establish the Public-Private Partnership Council and provide for its functions;
(d) provide for public-private partnerships for the construction and operation of new infrastructure facilities and systems, the maintenance rehabilitation, modernisation, expansion and operation of existing infrastructure facilities and systems and the provision of social sector services;
(e) develop general principles of transparency, economy and fairness in the award of contracts by public authorities through the establishment of specific procedures for the award of infrastructure projects and facilities and provision of social sector services and rules governing public private inception, procurement, contracting and management of public-private partnerships;
(f) provide for the implementation of public-private partnership agreements between contracting authorities and concessionaires; and
(g) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 30th July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.
THE ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS AND TRANSACTIONS BILL, 2009
The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill, 2009.
The objects of the Bill are to-
(a) create a safe, secure and effective environment for the consumer, business sector and the Government to conduct and use electronic communications;
(b) promote legal certainty and confidence, and encourage investment and innovation, in the electronic communications industry;
(c) facilitate the creation of secure electronic communication systems and networks;
(d) provide for the interception of electronic communication by law enforcement officers under specified circumstances;
(e) repeal the Computer Misuse and Crimes Act, 2004; and
(f) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Communications, Transport, Works and Supply. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 31st July, 2009. Hon Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme work of the committee.
Thank you.
THE INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES BILL, 2009
The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Information and Communication Technologies Bill, 2009. The objects of the Bill are to:
(a) continue the existence of the Communications Authority and rename it as the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority;
(b) provide for the effective regulation of information and communication technology;
(c) facilitate enhanced access to information and communication technologies;
(d) protect the rights and interests of service providers and consumers;
(e) repeal the Telecommunications Act, 1994 and the Radiocommunications Act, 1994; and
(f) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Communications, Transport and Works and Supply. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 31st July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.
Thank you.
THE POSTAL SERVICES BILL, 2009
The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Postal Services Bill, 2009. The objects of the Bill are to:
(a) provide for the regulation of postal and courier services;
(b) continue the existence of the Postal Services Corporation;
(c) provide for the operation of postal banking and financial services;
(d) repeal and replace the Postal Services Act, 1994; and
(e) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Communications, Transport and Works and Supply. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 31st July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.
Thank you.
THE ZAMBIA TANZANIA PIPELINE (Amendment) BILL, 2009
The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled The Zambia Tanzania Pipeline (Amendment) Bill, 2009. The object of this Bill is to amend the Zambia Pipeline Act so as to:
(a) provide immunity from execution of judgments against the assets of the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta Pipeline limited: and
(b) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 29th July, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.
Thank you.
_____
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT
The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that he House do now adjourn.
Question put and agreed to.
_____
The House adjourned at 1651 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 16th July, 2009.