DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 16th July, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

BASIC SCHOOL LABORATORIES IN KANCHIBIYA

Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): asked the Minister of Education:

(a) when science laboratories would be constructed at various basic schools in Kanchibiya Parliament Constituency; and

(b) how much the exercise would cost.

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Madam Speaker, seven basic schools were upgraded into upper basic schools. Unfortunately, the infrastructure was not upgraded to provide for permanent laboratory structures. However, the Ministry of Education has provided mobile laboratories, but we have no plans for constructing permanent laboratory structures in this year’s budget.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mwango: Madam Speaker, when does the Government intend to construct science laboratories at these upgraded schools?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, we realise the importance that these laboratory structures will play in the education system. Our conventional schools have laboratory structures, but most of the schools that were upgraded from middle to upper basic schools do not have. However, we have embarked, for short-term benefit, on mobile laboratory structures. Currently, we do not have any funds. Therefore, we do not have any plans at the moment to construct permanent laboratory structures. Funds permitting, in the future, we will be planning to do the same.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, we have heard about mobile hospitals and, today, we are hearing about mobile laboratories. Could the hon. Minister explain how her Government intends to utilise mobile laboratories given that any basic school will, on a day, require laboratory facilities for more than three hours? How, then, would these mobile laboratories be operated in these different schools, which are in different areas, and on what roads will they pass when we do not have good roads in this country?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, the ultimate situation must be that every conventional school where examinations take place, there is a permanent laboratory structure. Unfortunately, this is not the case. We have to face reality. The mobile laboratories are already in place. I know that some of you may have not seen them, but I would like to invite you to come to the science centre. I can assure you that they are easily mobile and can be moved from one place to another because they are just like a foldable suitcase and when it is opened, it translates into a mobile laboratory. That is the measure that has been used to meet the deficit that we are currently facing. Yes, we agree and we appreciate your concerns, but the ultimate situation must be that we have permanent laboratory structures, but that is not the prevailing situation. Therefore, in trying to meet the deficit, we are already providing mobile laboratory structures. There are seven of them in the particular constituency, Kanchibiya, which we are talking about where middle basic schools were upgraded to upper basic schools.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, can we be clear where these mobile laboratory structures are from and how they were sourced, given some of your recent history?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, to avoid the risk of my misleading the House, I am not sure yet what the source is, but I know that we have been distributing these mobile laboratories to schools in the country for a while now.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, the cost of a Land Cruiser is about K400 million. Is the Government not considering utilising that money to build permanent structures instead of misusing that money on buying expensive vehicles that will be moving these laboratories from one place to another?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, for the benefit of the hon. Members of the House, the Ministry of Education, in terms of its infrastructural development, has worked very closely with hon. Members of Parliament. We have been distributing the Infrastructure Development Plan every year. Currently, we have already distributed the 2009 Infrastructure Development Plan. In these, it is our intention to make sure that any new high schools or upper basic schools that are being constructed have permanent structures. We have had a reform policy to try and increase enrolment. As a result, we began the Basic Education Policy. We saw that some schools that were originally primary schools or middle basic schools become upper basic schools and they have to provide examinations. Therefore, we are trying to do our best with limited funds. This is why we are using laboratory kits so that, with the difficulties we are facing, at least, we are able to provide the opportunities for the learners in these institutions to have access to laboratories.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, will the hon. Minister of Education tell this august House the configuration and preventive maintenance of these mobile laboratories. What is the life span for the mobile laboratories? May we get the answer today, and not tomorrow?

Laughter

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, obviously, the life span of these mobile laboratories is not as good as permanent laboratory structures. It is also very much dependant on their use. Like I said, for those of you who have not seen any, you can visit the science centre …

Mr Muyanda interjected.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! When you ask a question, you must wait for the response. You do not have to continue speaking while the hon. Minister is responding. Continue, hon. Minister.

Ms Siliya: These mobile laboratories are not just being used in Zambia. Their size makes it possible for them to actually be folded and carefully looked after. What is important is that while we are not able to provide permanent laboratory structures, we are providing an opportunity for the learners in these institutions to have some sort of access to laboratories. Their life span, like I said, is very much dependant on their use and how they are being maintained but, obviously, we concede that they cannot be as long lasting as permanent structures.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how these mobile laboratories are used, especially during examinations, considering that the examinations are written at the same time. How will they circulate in other schools?

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Let us get to the issue of these laboratories for upper basic schools.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, as I have emphasised, the ideal situation would be that we have permanent structures. Even when we have permanent structures, they have to be used by various classes at different times. In times of examinations, even the mobile laboratories have to be set up and probably moved, from my understanding, around the school as and when they are needed. When they make the time table for the examinations, it is very clear that the classes, at that school, that have to take laboratory examinations cannot have the examinations at the same time. This is why they are mobile because they have to be moved around.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Education because I was there when the mobile laboratories were approved. These mobile laboratories have adequate equipment in them to cater for the children in a particular class. How often do you replace the equipment that is there, if loose things break, because these laboratories move all over? I am saying so because I know they are adequate for the children in that particular school.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, we have been distributing mobile laboratories since 2003 and since then, we have distributed over 500 mobile laboratories. These mobile laboratories have a permanent firm structure for items like basins and Bunsen burners. They also have spaces to store the chemicals that the pupils mix such as iodine and so on. As and when they finish, these chemicals are replaced. What is important is that the mobile permanent laboratory structure is available for the students to have access to laboratory facilities.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, much as I appreciate, as an educationist, the presence of portable laboratories which have cost effectively worked very well in rural settings, may I know whether the ministry has a tentative measure to beef up what is already in existence by the provision of more laboratories to cater for schools that have just been elevated to basic school status?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, as I said before, all the conventional schools have permanent laboratory structures. The upgraded upper basic schools have been provided with mobile laboratories. These mobile laboratories are in two types. There are the bigger ones and smaller ones which have the laboratory kits. I do agree with you that, in some cases, we have to provide schools with more than one mobile laboratory so that we can meet the needs. Currently, we have no plans to construct permanent laboratories structures due to budget limitations. We will continue to see if we can provide mobile laboratories and try and meet the needs in these learning institutions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister is well aware, all schools in my constituency can only be reached by boat. You have to go from island to island. Does the education office at the district level, in Samfya, have the capability to transport these laboratories from time to time to the various upper basic schools in the constituency?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, these mobile laboratories are stationed permanently at the various schools. They are the size of about one of these tables and they can be opened and reconfigured. When we provide them to schools, they are left there permanently and they are called mobile laboratories because they are not permanent structures. They are just a laboratory facility. Otherwise, they are merely the size of these tables.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s earlier response to Question 230 yesterday, she stated that some schools could not be examination centres because they did not have laboratory facilities. Now that the hon. Minister says that they, in fact, have mobile laboratories facilities, what justification is there for the ministry to continue denying Kaumbu High School, Chinyingi High School and Chitokoloki High School in Zambezi examination centre numbers?

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Education may help us understand the issue of high and basic schools.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, the middle basic schools are Grade 1 to Grade 7 while the upper basic schools are up to Grade 9. In yesterday’s question, I said that there were a number of requirements for a school to become an examination centre. In the case of Mwinilunga East, at the time of the application, they did not have secure rooms to secure the examination papers. They have since done that and we are processing their application for them to become an examination centre. All the upper basic schools that run Grade 9 Examinations and all the high schools that run Grade 12 Examinations have laboratories - whether they are permanent or mobile laboratory structures. Otherwise, they would not be able to offer the kind of learning that the students need to go and sit for an examination.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

ELECTRIFICATION IN MFUWE

241. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when the following places in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency would be electrified.

(a) Katibunga High School;

(b) Chief Nabwalya’s Palace; and

(c) Chief Mukungule’s Palace.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Mbewe): Madam Speaker, Katibunga Rural Growth Centre (RGC) and High School fall under Project Package ranked No. 25 in Northern Province in the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP). The RGC is in Mpika District and is earmarked for electrification through a grid extension in 2019 at an estimated total cost of K22.7 billion.

Madam Speaker, Nabwalya Rural Growth Centre (and Chief Nabwalya’s Palace) is in Project Package No. 19. The area will be electrified through solar home systems at an estimated cost of K2.5 billion. The chief’s palace will be electrified by the end of 2010.

Madam Speaker, Mukungule’s Palace, together with Lwanya and Mukwikile, also falls under Project Package No. 25 but these three RGCs will be electrified through solar home systems at an estimated cost of K7 billion. Preparations for implementing these projects will be subject to the annual budget available to the Rural Electrification Authority.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Madam Speaker, in 2007, 2008 and 2009 - these three years - the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development has been considered for electrification. I also want to find out when they are going to bring the Annual Work Plan so that we avoid some of these questions. Why do you hide the Annual Work Plan?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, the truth is that the Government, through the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, is not hiding the annual work plans. Actually, we are waiting to launch the Rural Electrification Master Plan, some time, this month or early next month. Once that master plan has been launched by His Excellency the President, it is going to be distributed to all hon. Members of Parliament in all constituencies.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

ROAD REHABILITATION IN NDOLA

242. Mr Mushili (Ndola central) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the rehabilitation of the Fitente and Macha roads in Ndola Central Parliamentary Constituency were last budgeted for;

(b) when the contractor for the roads mentioned above moved to site; and

(c) when the works on the roads at (a) above would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is delirious to rehabilitate the Macha and Fitente roads in Ndola Central Constituency. In the 2008 Annual Work Plan, a provision was made for the rehabilitation of the above named roads. However, no works were carried out in the year ended 31st December, 2008 because all the bids that were received for the tender to rehabilitate the roads were not responsive.

Madam, RDA, through the Ndola City Council which is the appointed road authority, has, this year, re-advertised the tender for the rehabilitation of the named roads. The works may start towards the end of the third quarter.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mushili: Madam Speaker, the non-procurement of contractors has become a common defence mechanism in a bid to cover up the inefficiency to carry out works. When will this Government learn to budget for projects that it knows it is able to effect by procuring the contractors on time? Looking at the time, the rainy season is around the corner and no contractor has been procured yet.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Madam Speaker, the people that responded to the last advert that was run for the tenders submitted bids that were considered non-responsive. This means that they did not comply with the parameters set for that particular tender. However, the hon. Member of Parliament is a councillor in the Ndola City Council…

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: …and I hope that he will follow the valuation and selection of a contractor on those important roads because they are under his constituency. Therefore, the onus is on him to keep an eye and push the authorities in the council to ensure that a contractor is selected within the period before the rainy season.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the position is on the roads that were said to have been captured by the Japanese International Corporation Agency (JICA) to have works done on them. Over the years now, we have just been hearing about JICA and nothing is being done. I would like to find out what the latest position on this issue is.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Unless the JICA roads being referred to are Fitente and Macha, they are outside the question.

Laughter

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, surely, the hon. Minister is aware of the Public Roads Act which places complete responsibility for financing and construction of roads in this country not under city councils or rural councils, but under the two agencies that were specially created for that purpose. Where does he get this habit of constantly referring to us as councillors who are responsible for roads when the law says otherwise?

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the difficulty is that the hon. Member wants to read the law selectively.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Madam, the law that appoints the regulating agency and authority also gives power to the Ministry of Works and Supply to delegate that authority to other agencies and the Lusaka and Ndola City councils are appointed legally, through my ministry, to be road authorities. Therefore, when we say that they must play their role because we are going towards decentralisation, in any case, we want them to take a stance and not pass the butt, again, to the Central Government.

 Therefore, as a ministry, our wish is that when we appoint these road authorities they should actively participate in the advertising, selection and awarding of contracts. There are current discussions on how we will proceed and the memorandum of understanding (MOU) will be signed with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing so that the cry by councils that the RDA is interfering in their work will be a thing of the past. Therefore, when I hear you complain, I get worried because when the ministry wants to empower you to have total authority over these roads, you are now throwing the butt at us, again, by telling us to take control of same.

Madam Speaker, currently, we have all been appointed and the question of looking for money is your equal responsibility too.

 Hon. Government: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I listened very carefully to the answer given by the hon. Minister with regard to that fact that the Government will enter into MOUs with councils at a future date. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he expects Ndola City Council, particularly this councillor who is from Ndola, to engage himself in the process of bidding and advertising for the roads in Ndola even before the MOU is entered into. Will that be accepted?

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kabwata was sitting right in from of me when I was explaining. I said that the law mandates the Ministry of Works and Supply to appoint councils as road authorities. When I talked about the MOU, I said this would be entered into with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. I did not talk about councils. Therefore, hon. Member, you still have the power, now, as councils to engage in those activities you numerated. If, for lack of interest, you have not been participating, I pity you.

Laughter

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, since the Government is going in that direction, when are we and our councils going to have a share of the percentage of the money they cut as fuel levy so that we, as councils, use it to rehabilitate our roads? This is because the money which they are cutting is going to their department?

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the responsibility of this House is to apportion resources to the priority areas of development. It will not be long before this House is, again, tasked with the responsibility of apportioning funds for the next financial year. I hope that the hon. Member will be able to guide the budgeting session of how he would want to have a share of this money. Unless he does that, I am afraid the Treasury will continue to apportion the money in the most appropriate manner.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

WOMEN’S ACCESS TO CITIZENS ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT FUND

244. Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya) asked the Minister of Gender and Women in Development what linkages the ministry had made with other ministries, such as the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry and the Ministry of Community Development Social Services, to ensure that women in need, especially in the rural areas, accessed loans under the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund.

The Deputy Minister of Gender and Women in Development (Ms Changwe): Madam Speaker, as you may know, the division whose mandate is to co-ordinate and monitor the implementation of the National Gender Policy ensures that gender is mainstreamed in ministries and other institutions apart from the two that have been mentioned. You may also wish to know that the Government has ensured that we have gender focal point persons in all ministries, provinces and the entire public sector. These people co-ordinate, monitor and link up with the division in an effort to mainstream gender.

Madam Speaker, I wish to mention here that the Gender in Development Division (GIDD) has gender focal point persons in the ministries of Commerce, Trade and Industry and Community Development and Social Services respectively. With regard to ensuring that rural women access loans under the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF), awareness is being created among the vulnerable groups ,especially the rural women. The GIDD has been and will continue to sensitise the rural women on the economic, social and political activities to which the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) is just one of them. Therefore, this office continues to give publicity on the need for women to take advantage of the opportunities that are available under the CEEC.

Madam Speaker, the CEEC has since placed women as a target group for accessing the loans. Hon. Members of Parliament should also ensure that out of the fifteen application forms that were given to them by the CEEC, a good number of these forms must be given to women.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba: Madam Speaker, why is this Government using money from the Joint Gender Support Programme on consultancy and workshops? Further, could the hon. Minister tell me what tangible projects they have lined up to benefit the rural women?

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Gender and Women in Development (Ms Sayifwanda): Madam Speaker, as the hon. Deputy Minister has alluded to, the mandate of the GIDD is to co-ordinate.

Madam, you may recall that I stood on the Floor of this august House in the last session and explained that there were some resources available under the Joint Gender Support Programme meant for capacity building and, at the same time, for starter programmes. However, since the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development is not an implementing ministry, we have identified the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services where these resources will be channelled. Discussions have already started. At the ministerial level, we have had some meetings with my colleague, Hon. Kaingu. At the moment, our officials have been asked to put things in place.

Coming to the hon. Member’s question, I would advise her to put that question in written form and an answer will be provided. The money is definitely there, but she must put that question in writing since I do not have an answer readily available at the moment. That programme still stands.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Madam Speaker, how does this Government expect rural women to benefit from the consultancies and workshops that are concentrated in Lusaka, at Belvedere Lodge, in particular, on which K40 billion has been spent?

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, I understand that the question is coming from a female hon. Member of Parliament. However, as politicians, I would like to say that there are activities on the ground. That is the beginning of our programme and we have to start with capacity building. In this nation, money has been spent on various programmes, but due to of lack of knowledge that money has gone into the Zambezi River. I wish to emphasise that this is the beginning of our sensitisation programme which will go to all parts of this nation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, may I know how many women have, so far, accessed the CEEF since its inception, if, indeed, there is proper co-ordination between your ministry and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development is, indeed, a co-ordinating office and I have all the details. This year, the target for women was … let me use my glasses …

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sayifwanda: The target for women was forty, but so far eighteen applicants have already been funded.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Limata (Luampa): Madam Speaker, there is a strong rumour going around that the officers from the hon. Minister’s office …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Ms Limata: … have started going round …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Limata: … and have been to Chipata twice.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

Ms Limata: Are these officers only going to go to Chipata and not go to the Western, North-Western and Southern provinces or Pemba. When are they going to start that?

Hon. Members: That is Quality!

Laughter

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, I think I have already answered this question. My officials will go round the whole nation. Recently, my Deputy Minister was in Central Province and I was supposed to go to the Southern Province, but due to lack of time, I could not. Otherwise, this programme is ongoing and we are going to do that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: I would just want to remind the House that, generally, we do not deal with rumours, but facts.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Madam Speaker, the issue of US$40 million or billion or whatever it is, has been on the cards. This is the seventh month of the budget we passed in March, but discussions are still going on between the hon. Minister of Gender and Women in Development and the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services without any implementation. At what point should we see this money being put into use? This is the practical situation we would want to hear about.

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, I have already answered that question. This money is not only from the Zambian Government but also from the co-operating partners. The co-operating partners have also been putting strategies in place and immediately they finish doing this, the money will be disbursed to the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services. I do not know when but definitely since this is money for the communities, it will be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, since this is the ministry in charge of gender, may I be enlightened by the hon. Minister on how much money has been spent on building capacity in rural men for them to understand the role of this ministry.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, indeed, people think gender is just for women. Gender is for both men and women. Coming to the question, I do not have the exact amount but I would request the hon. Member to write to the ministry so that we give him the correct amount.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, in terms of budgetary allocation, the Division is not adequately provided for in the budget. When will Gender in Development attain ministerial status?

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, I would ask the hon. Member to direct that question to His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice. Otherwise, I do not have an answer to it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF) forms the hon. Minister referred to are elaborate and need a high level of proficiency to fill. I know it is above the scope of most women in the rural areas and even in towns. This involves both men and women.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the ministry is doing to help the people fill in these forms.

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, the Division realised that there were a few cobwebs with regard to the forms. I recall that at one time, CEEC officials promised that they would revise the form, but I should also state that at the district level, we have the gender sub-committees and we have people assigned specifically to look at the issues of project proposals for rural women and men and for those people who do not fully understand the form.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that the form will be revised to suit the Zambians.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, may I take advantage of the hon. Minister’s declaration that she has answers before her, to ask how her ministry arrived at the decision that they will target forty women and that so far they have arrived at eighteen women to access the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund. Who determined that the target for women shall only be forty in a country where they are more than six million women?

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, what the hon. Minister actually meant was the target that was set at the CEEC offices after looking at the resource envelope that was there at the time. However, it must be clearly understood that this is an on-going process and the response we gave is what is pertaining at the moment. It must also be understood that women are a target group just like the youths and I am sure my Division and, indeed, CEEC would want to see that a good number of women in proportion to the population of Zambia get this much needed empowerment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}

SOCIAL VULNERABILITY RATE IN MWENSE

245. Mr Chongo (Mwense) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) what the social vulnerability rate for the community in Mwense District was and what measures had been taken to avert the situation;

(b) what the staff establishment for both the community development and social welfare departments in Mwense district was;

(c) what the current staffing levels were in both departments at (b) above;

(d) what mode of transport the officers above used in undertaking their duties; and

(e) whether the mode of transport used by the officers above was sufficient to meet the current needs.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Malwa): Madam Speaker, the ministry, in its developmental programming, utilises the poverty prevalence rate as documented by the Central Statistics Office in the Living Conditions of Monitoring Survey of 2006. With respect to Mwense District, the poverty rate stands at 73 per cent of the people in the entire district. Most households are low income ones and are characterised by high illiteracy levels and serious food insecurity. Single women, orphans, vulnerable children, the disabled and the aged are the worst affected people.

The measures taken by the ministry to avert the situation are that the ministry, under the Department of Social Welfare, implements the Public Welfare Assistance Scheme in Mwense which is one of the Government’s major social safety net programmes. This programme aims at offering social protection to those in need and incapacitated people by assisting the most vulnerable to fulfil their basic needs, particularly in the health sector, education, food and shelter.

In 2008, the scheme assisted the following groups:

(a) eighty elderly people;

(b)  ninety-five orphans and vulnerable children;

(c)  132 disabled persons;

(d) ninety-one widows;

(e)  sixty-nine chronically ill individuals;

(f)  and seventy-five persons who had faced minor disasters.

The scheme promotes community participation by encouraging them to help the vulnerable within their societies. Additionally, the ministry has started scaling up the Social Cash Transfer Scheme to nationwide programmes to help protect and promote livelihoods among the destitute and incapacitated households to help them meet their basic needs.

Madam Speaker, the ministry, through the Department of Community Development, is implementing programmes that are aimed at reducing poverty through empowerment of communities for sustainable human development. The programmes being implemented in Mwense are Gender Development, Food Security Pack (FSP), Fundamental Literacy and self help projects. In 2008, the following activities were implemented:

The ministry assisted in the formation and registration of sixteen women development groups. Currently, the district has a total of 139 women development groups. These groups are engaged in income-generating activities which include farming and tailoring.

Madam Speaker, the department is also working with the Programme for Luapula Agricultural and Rural Development and it provided a grant of K20 million to the Mwense District Women Association aimed at facilitating seed multiplication at ten agricultural camps. Participants where trained in business, marketing, food processing and goat rearing.

Madam Speaker, the objective of this programme is to promote food security at the household level through empowerment of vulnerable but viable farmers. A total of 108 farmers benefited from the FSP Programme in the 2007/2008 farming season.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Malwa: The packs consisted of the following agricultural inputs:

(i) 108 x 50 kg D compound;
(ii) 108 x 50 kg urea;
(iii)  108 x 10 kg maize seeds; 
(iii) 108 x 7 kg beans; and 
(iv) 100 x 7.5 kg groundnuts.

The purpose of this programme is to empower community members with skills to read and write and do simple arithmetic. The Department of Community Development recruited four trained voluntary literacy instructors in Mwense District in 2008. Currently, there are seventy-eight literacy classes and seventy-eight voluntary literacy instructors.

Madam Speaker, in answer to part (b) of the question, …

Mr Kambwili: Summarise.

Mr Malwa: … the staff establishment for both …

Laughter

Mr Malwa: … the Community Development and Social departments in Mwense District is as follows:

The total staff establishment for the Department of Community Development in Mwense District is fourteen. Out of this, eleven positions have been filled, with only three vacancies remaining mainly due to failure by the appointed officers to report to the stations.

The tabulation below refers to the establishment:

         Position                                                            Station      Number

Community Development Officer                                 District             1
Assistant Community Development Officer                 District             2
Community Development Assistant                             Sub-Centre    10
Typist                                                                           District             1

Madam Speaker, the current staffing levels for Mwense Community Development Office are as follows:

         Position                                                           Station     Number

Community Development Officer                                   District           0
Assistant Community Development Officer                   District           2
Community Development Assistant                               Sub-Centre    9
Typist                                                                             District           0

Madam Speaker, in answer to part (c) of the question, the staff establishment for the Department of Social Welfare in Mwense is five. Out of these positions, only that of social welfare officer has been filled. The remaining vacancies are mainly due to failure by those appointed to report to the station. However, the ministry is currently seeking authority from the Public Service Management Division to re-advertise these vacant positions. Currently, the establishment is as follows:

        Position                                                            Station         Number
Social Welfare Officer                                                District               1
Assistant Social Welfare Officer                                District               1
Typist                                                                          District               1
Office Orderly                                                             District               1
Driver                                                                          District               1

Madam Speaker, as for part (d) of the question, the mode of transport the officers above use in undertaking their duties is as follows:

The District Social Welfare was recently provided with a new vehicle to use in the implementation of different programmes under the District Community Development Office. There are two new motor bikes which have been recently purchased for the monitoring of the Food Security Pack Programme and other official duties. At the sub-centre level, only two sub-centres have departmental bicycles.

Madam Speaker, in answering part (e) of the question, the mode of transport used by the officers under both departments is not adequate, especially under community development. However, plans are underway to provide adequate transport for all the officers in the seventy-two districts. The ministry has of late procured thirty-eight vehicles which have so far been distributed in the district. Unfortunately, this cannot be done in all its districts, but this phase is a continuous process if the financial limitations will be possible. This is an on-going process.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sichilima: Quality!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwense. Microphone!

Mr Chongo: Madam Speaker, it is quite a lengthy but void response.

Laughter

Mr Chongo: Madam Speaker, a vulnerability rate of 73 per cent for a population of over 200,000 is quite alarming, looking at the intervention of only 300 people catered for. When is the ministry going to co-ordinate with other economic ministries such as the ministry that is implementing economic empowerment commission to come up with a very valid intervention so that the people of Mwense can be assisted to grow their economies?

Mr Malwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mwense is actually free to come to our office so that we can work hand in hand to establish the problems that his constituency is going through and if there is a way we can help to integrate by assisting them to get loans from the Economic Empowerment Commission (EEC) he is welcome.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, in his elaborate answer, one of the few things I was able to pick was the fact that the Government is using cash transfer as a means to fight poverty. Now, would the hon. Minister inform this House if cash transfer is a means to fight poverty and that mechanism is not applied to the poorest province which is Western Province? When are they going to apply cash transfer to the Western Province?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the question was for Mwense. That is why the hon. Minister limited himself to Mwense.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, let me commend the women of Mwense for establishing 139 women development groups. That is highly commendable. However, in response to part (a) of the question with respect to the measures being taken by the Government to avert the poverty situation in Mwense which is 73 per cent, the hon. Minister referred to three programmes.

Firstly, he mentioned the Public Welfare Assistance Scheme (PWAS), which targets the most vulnerable individuals amongst our people. The second was the food security packs, which also target small scale vulnerable but viable farmers, whatever that jargon means. The third was the Cash Transfer Scheme, which also targets individuals.

Given that there is no vehicle for transferring resources to women’s development groups, could I find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has any intention, whatsoever, of introducing a special mechanism through which women’s groups, such as the 139 in Mwense, would receive support from the Government as a way of alleviating the suffering of our people?

The minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Chongo for bringing this question to Parliament. I would like to use this opportunity to tell hon. Members that lengthy questions like this one should be written to the ministry. However, if he wants the answer orally, he should pay attention so that he understands the answer that will be given and will not call us names. I have noticed that he does not seems to have understood our earlier answer because he did not actually listen attentively.

Madam Speaker, coming back to …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Can we listen?

Mr Kaingu: … Hon. Lubinda’s question, I would like to thank the women of Mwense for coming up with social clubs. One thing that the hon. Member should know is that in our efforts to try and alleviate poverty in rural areas, the MMD Government, …

Hon. MMD Member: It is a working Government.

Mr Kaingu: … which is a working Government …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: … has come up with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). If hon. Members do not use this fund to mitigate poverty in their constituencies, then I do not know what they will use it for. I do not know what Hon. Lubinda uses the CDF in Kabwata …

Interruption

Mr Lubinda: On a point f order, Madam.

Mr Kaingu: You cannot raise a point of order when I am answering your question.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You do not raise a point of order as if you are fighting.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Make your point clearly. The Chair is able to hear.

Mr Kambwili: Mudala nao uyu walubuli (pointing at Mr Kaingu).

Madam Deputy Speaker: You should let the hon. Minister finish explaining before raising a point of order.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for your protection. It is, indeed, true that poverty levels in rural areas are very high. The Ministry of Community Development and Social Services is trying its level best to address the situation through food security packs and other programmes like women’s clubs. If the resource envelope was big enough, I am sure that we would cover more women’s clubs than the 139 that have been formed in Mwense.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the problem of understaffing in the Department of Community Development and Social Welfare affects nearly all districts in this country. Arising from the hon. Minister’s answer …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to apologise to my brother for disturbing his question. However, is he in order to continue asking that question without first of all asking whether the hon. Minister will this time not waffle when answering …

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … and start referring to CDF for a constituency which has nothing to do with Mwense? When the questions that are being asked are on Mwense, he goes and starts talking about CDF in Kabwata.

Madam, is this gentleman (pointing at Mr Chisala) in order …

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … to ask that question without asking whether the hon. Minister will not waffle again?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Chair is not sure where that anger is directed …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: … because the hon. Member on the Floor is innocently asking what concerns him. However, I think the hon. Member was directing his anger where he was facing, but his finger was pointing elsewhere.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: We will continue and take that into consideration.

You may continue, please.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, the problem of understaffing in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services affects its two departments; the department of community development and that of social welfare. Now, arising from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister, how soon does the Government intend to employ community development assistants at district level?

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I do not know whether the word ‘waffle’ is parliamentary.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: However, in our ministry there is what we call functional literacy and men like Hon. Lubinda …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order, hon. Members! The hon. Minister will respond to the question.

Interruptions

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, as it can be seen from our elaborate and detailed answer, we have assistant community officers in Mwense. If the hon. Member had been listening, he would have heard that we have employed those officers in Mwense.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, arising from the answer that the hon. Minister has given on the staffing levels in these two departments, could he confirm that not employing people in the existing vacancies has led to inefficiency and poor service delivery.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Kaingu: Tizakunyowesa.

Laughter

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I would like to confirm that we have staffing problems in some districts in the country. The problem is that our recruiting programme was centralised and when we advertised jobs, some of the people that were employed refused to go to rural areas. So we have now decided to decentralise our recruitment programme in rural areas. I am sure that when we start employing, all of these problems will be taken care of.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Before we go to the next question, the Chair would like to caution all of you hon. Members that when you say things to each other across the Floor, you do not have the protection of the Chair because the Chair may not have an opportunity to correct what is going on. Therefore, if anything is captured, you may just have yourselves to blame.{mospagebreak}

ROAD GRAVELLING IN LUENA

246. Mr Milupi (Luena) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the following roads in Luena Parliamentary Constituency would be gravelled:

(i) Miluwe/Nangula;

(ii) Limulunga/Ushaa/Kaate;

(iii) Malala/Ndanda/Simaa/Sitoya;

(iv) Ilunda/Ikabako; and

(v) Luongo/Kasheke/Maonga.

(i)  Miluwe/Nangula

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, the regravelling of 20 kilometres of Miluwe/Nangula Road was included in a project under the DANIDA Road Sector Support Programme. The project was carried out as a pilot for training small-scale contractors on road construction using labour based methods.

Three contractors namely; Messrs Edmas Contractors Limited, Mongu Hardware; and Kakachile Investments were engaged to upgrade the road to gravel standards. However, only 10 kilometres out of the planned 20 kilometres was regravelled due to a change in the construction methods necessitated by the site conditions.

The Mongu District Council has prioritised the completion of the remaining 10 kilometres of the project road to gravel standards. The road will be considered for inclusion in the 2010 Annual Work Plan for the Road Development Agency (RDA) under road authorities.

(ii) Limulunga/Ushaa/Kaate Road

 Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation to gravel standards of the Limulunga/Ushaa/Kaate Road was awarded to Messrs JMB Investments in 2007. However, due to the site conditions only 16 kilometres of the project road is expected to be completed in 2009. The length of the road to be gravelled was reduced because of the increase …

Hon. Opposition Members: What?

Mr Ndalamei: … in gravel thickness in order to achieve the required completion.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, wait a minute. If we want to listen, we have to pay attention and reduce on our heckling so that we get what he is saying.

You may continue, please.

Mr Ndalamei: The completion of the rehabilitation of the Limulunga/Ushaa/Kaate Road is expected to be included in the 2010 Annual Work Plan.

(iii)  Malala/Ndanda/Simaa/Sitoya Road

 The ministry has immediate intentions of rehabilitating the project road. It was intended that the rehabilitation of 57.3 kilometres of the Malala/Ndanda/Simaa/Sitoya Road be carried out in 2009, but this could not be done due to budgetary constraints. However, the rehabilitation of the project road is now being considered for inclusion in the 2010 Annual Work Plan of the Road Development Agency under the Road Authorities.

(iv)  The Ilunda/Ikabako Road

The ministry had immediate plans to rehabilitate the project road. To this end, the rehabilitation of the Ilunda/Ikabako Road was originally provided for in the 2009 Annual Work Plan. However, due to budgetary constraints, the project will not be undertaken in 2009. It is now intended that the project be undertaken in 2010.

 (v) Luongo/Kasheke/Maonga Road

 The ministry has no immediate plans to rehabilitate the Luongo/Kasheke/Maonga Road because of other priority areas in Mongu District. The Mongu District Council has not included the rehabilitation of the project road in its plans ever since it was appointed as a road authority.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, that was a very elaborate answer and I thank the hon. Minister for it. However, as has been heard from the answer given by the hon. Minister, none of those roads which were included in the annual work plan have been successfully rehabilitated. The reason being given is the condition of the sites.

Madam Speaker, will the Government accept that Western Province has one standard site condition which is that the land is sandy. Therefore, when the Government gives a company work to rehabilitate any road, it must take into account the site condition so that it can no longer give it as a reason for not undertaking the rehabilitation of particular roads successfully.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for that advice, but I would like to assure the hon. Member that one of the difficulties that we have in awarding contracts in the province is the site condition. Sometimes, when we advertise, contractors either do not just participate or, if they do, the rates are so high and prohibitive that we have difficulties in awarding contracts. We are grateful for your advice and we are also conscious of it. However, the site condition is one of those natural situations that we have to live with.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker the hon. Minister has allocated heavy equipment to Western Province that is under utilised and in his reply, we have not heard how that equipment has been used for the rehabilitation of the roads in question.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, the information available is contrary to what the hon. Member is saying. In fact, we are doing a road in his constituency right now. I do not know whether he is on the ground following our work.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply aware that three quarters of the equipment in provincial headquarters is marooned and not working because the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has not been releasing money for fuel.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, for instance, in my constituency and Namwala, there is no fuel for the equipment.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, this House apportions funds for those purposes and the amount of money that was provided for that equipment last year was only K2 billion per province. Hoping to get more than what was allocated would be expecting too much.  We have always pleaded with hon. Members of Parliament to consider allocating part of their CDF to road works and to appeal to their constituents to participate in the rehabilitation projects.

However, for those hon. Members who feel that the CDF cannot be used for such purposes, they will have to wait and watch those machines rot until fuel is taken to their constituencies. However, I hope that in this current budget, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will make some adequate provisions to operationalise the equipment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Madam Speaker, with regard to the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister, regarding the roads in Luena, I feel very sad about this ministry which is led by this Nominated hon. Member of Parliament.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Are they in order to continuously desire to perpetuate the poverty of Western Province by always citing site considerations, forty-five years after independence? This province would, ordinarily, have been very successful and rich but always continues to have problems of site conditions at the expense of the development of the Lozi people in a constituency where the Litunga resides. I beg for an answer from that hon. Minister, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, for the benefit of the hon. Member, and others who do not know, I would like to inform the House that I was twice elected from a constituency to this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Therefore, it is an honour for me to be nominated, now, from amongst 12 million people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, my ministry, with the support of some of our co-operating partners, is very committed to the development of Western Province. I am also grateful that the fighter for Sichifulo is now actively participating in campaigning for the Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: I would like to assure him that our commitment to that province is intact. Furthermore, site conditions are natural. We cannot transform that province into a different landscape. We recognise the fact that the biggest expense in developing roads in that province is carrying gravel from long distances to the province. Madam Speaker, even when road equipment is taken there, sometimes, it cannot be used because, when they try to grade the place, it becomes worse than it was before because of the sandy conditions. Therefore, it is good engineering that enables the contractors to work there. I would like to assure the hon. Member that we are very committed to developing Western Province.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I am one of the hon. Members of Parliament who would like to work with the hon. Minister of Works and Supply and even take his advice that we use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to supplement the work on the roads. Since we have said that Katuba is ready, when is the hon. Minister going to assist his counterpart at the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to release the CDF for this year so that we can use it to rehabilitate our roads?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for that appeal from the hon. Member who is also my nephew. My hardworking colleague in the Ministry of Local Government and Housing …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: … who is very industrious and active, will be working very closely with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Development to ensure that CDF is released to those deserving constituencies who have accounted for the last CDF.

VETERINARY OFFICERS IN DUNDUMWEZI

247. Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:
 
(a) how many veterinary officers were stationed in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency as at 31st December, 2008, ward by ward; and

(b) when the extension officer in the Chilala Agricultural Block in Dundumwezi parliamentary Constituency would be accommodated.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Madam Speaker, there were three veterinary assistants stationed in Kalomo District where Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency falls. The distribution at the following veterinary camps was as follows:

 Name of Camp      Number of Veterinary Assistants
 Lungamu                                      3
 Nkandanzovu                               1
 Munyeke                                       0

The block extension officer in Chilala Agricultural Block will be accommodated as soon as terminal benefits are paid to the family of the former block extension officer who passed away, and the family vacates the house.

Currently, the new block officer is accommodated in a house belonging to a primary co-operative society.

Please, note that the veterinary assistants are stationed at camps and not by wards.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the officer at Chilala Agricultural Camp has not been accommodated for four years now? The family that he is talking about was paid repatriation benefits last year. Why has it taken this long to accommodate the extension officer in Chilala Farming Block and when are they going to send a veterinary officer at Munyeke Camp?

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, as soon as all the logistics are fully paid to this woman and she moves away from the House, this extension officer will occupy the house. As regards Munyeke Camp, though we may not be able to recruit this year, we are going to make a replacement.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, the fact that this question is raised by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi, is proof enough that there is a problem of deploying and accommodating veterinary officers. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is not aware of the problems of corridor disease in these areas because these people are not there to advise and help control the disease.

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, I would like to say that my ministry, and Government, is fully aware about the adverse effects of the disease. That is why, previously, we never used to recruit but, as at last year, we recruited more extension and veterinary officers to take up those positions. As I am speaking, we are only remaining with about sixteen officers to reach our full capacity. Once those are replaced, as I said, we are going to send one to the required place.

I thank you. Madam Speaker.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that Dundumwezi Constituency shares the border with a game park which is infested with tsetse flies and hence, animals such as cattle are dying in large numbers? When will this ministry send more veterinary officers to go and control the situation in that constituency?

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, yes, we are fully aware of that. The hon. Member is talking about tsetse fly which causes trypanosomiasis.  This year, Zambia and Namibia have embarked on a project of spraying. So far, in Zambia, we have sprayed 5,000 square kilometres of land going towards Western Province and we are only remaining with 17,000 square kilometres. This is one way of trying to eliminate tsetse flies in this country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Bwalya (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, extension officers are supposed to be moving from place to another. Therefore, are these extension officers provided with camps kits in order for them to execute their duties properly?

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, after recruitment, we have had a lot of extension officers. This year, by September, if everything goes well, we would like to equip them with transport. Actually, the kit the hon. Member is talking about is not an issue. The issue has been transport. These officers need to be mobile. We want them to be able to meet as many farmers as possible. This year, we will try to buy them motorbikes.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Speaker, at the centre of livestock disease control is the visible availability of veterinary extension officers. Given that Dundumwezi, just like Katombola and Kazungula, has been encroached by the Contagious Bovine Plural Pneumonia (CBPP) which is a lung disease for cattle, can you tell us how possible it was to control the movement of 7,432 diseased head of cattle from Sichifulo in the absence of livestock officers?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, we may appreciate that we did not reach the exact number of the required veterinary officers. As I have indicated, Sichifulo borders with Kalomo and out of the four camps, only one had no extension veterinary officer. These extension officers are not static.  They are mobile. They do not only work at the camp level. We also have the block extension officers who help them to execute the duties which they are assigned to do. If there is inadequate manpower, there is the district which also comes on board to try to fight the disease. Therefore, even if at that particular place, we did not have a person to work there, at least, in the district and the whole province, we had enough personnel to carry on with the work.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PROCUREMENT OF A NEW BOAT IN BANGWEULU

248. Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when a new and bigger boat would be procured for Bangweulu Water Transport Company.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Madam Speaker, in the 2009 Budget Estimates, an amount of K1.9 billion was approved for the procurement of a bigger boat for the Bangweulu Water Transport Board. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning has used an amount of K450 million in May. The Ministry of Communications and Transport has since commenced the tender procedures for the procurement of the boat.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasongo: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister guarantee that the same funds will not be misappropriated by his officials like what happened in 2005 when a K2 billion which was allocated for the same purpose was misappropriated?

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, that point is taken. We shall monitor and ensure that the money is utilised for the intended purpose.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, we are grateful that the ministry is considering buying a boat to be used on Lake Bangweulu. Therefore, is the ministry intending to buy smaller boats which can navigate the channels in Luapula Constituency because this boat will not be able to navigate the channels?

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, focusing on Bangweulu, itself, as a matter of fact, we have already procured two banana boats...

Hon. Opposition Members interjected.

Professor Lungwangwa: …which will be used to access those areas which are inaccessible. Those boats have already been delivered to the Bangweulu Water Board. They are awaiting the engines to be fixed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, it is common knowledge that banana boats are really not the best on Lake Bangweulu. They are extremely light and dangerous on the lake. In this regard, is the hon. Minister not thinking of getting boats that suit the circumstances of each lake to ensure the safety of our people? I would give you an example of my own constituency. The eight people who lost their lives were actually using a banana boat.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, as the hon. Member is aware, safety on roads and waterways is, of course, a prime responsibility of the Government. Clearly, if the current facilities are not safe enough, we shall look into that and take corrective measures.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament are key stakeholders in the procurement process. Is the hon. Minister planning to involve them in the procurement processes?

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the procedures of procurement are very clear and those who are supposed to be participating in the procurement process, again, are known and I do not think that preposition is tenable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out what the timeframe is for procurement of bigger boats because, last week, the smaller boats killed about eighteen people on Lake Bangweulu.

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, in our response, we had indicated that the tender procedures have commenced. Therefore, the procurement will be achieved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I do not understand what the hon. Minister is saying. Is he saying that they have not collected figures on how accidents are happening on Lake Bangweulu? The eighteen and the two priests who perished were all using banana boats. Even if the tender procedure has been started, can that not be stopped?

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, I do not, exactly, know what the hon. Member is asking because it is common knowledge that we have read about that information in the papers and we are concerned about the safety of our people.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sikazwe: Madam Speaker, the former Minister of Communications and Transport assured us that the ministry would procure a bigger boat to save the lives of our people. I would like to find out the current Government’s position on this matter.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The question is on Lake Bangweulu.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Madam Speaker, will the hon. Minister differentiate between the process of procurement and the competence of the people in the Procurement Department. Can the tender bids involve people who are competent enough to acquire the right quality of boats that we are talking about.

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, those who are doing the procurement process are already in office and if there any identified weaknesses, it is better that the concerned hon. Member brings those weaknesses to our attention and we shall deal with them.

Mr Nsanda: Madam Speaker, what is this Government doing in making sure that there will be no more accidents on the lake by providing coast guards because wherever there is water, there are coast guards? For example, as regards the latest accident, it took five days or a week to find the bodies. What preparations have you made to have coast guards on these waters in Zambia?

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, clearly…

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

(THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair)

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I was going to say that coast guards may be a necessary factor, but not sufficient enough in preventing accidents at the coast.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MARKET IN KABUSHI

249. Mr Msichili (Kabushi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) when the Government would construct a modern market at Main Masala in Kabushi Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) when the Government would rehabilitate the following markets:

(i) Mine Masala;

(ii) Kabushi; and

(iii) Lubuto.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Puma):  Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the provision of all infrastructure services, including markets, is the mandate of local authorities. Construction and provision of infrastructure is based on the developmental plans that should be provided by the local authorities.

Therefore, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing gives policy guidance and also mobilises resources which it provides to councils in form of grants based on the requirements from the local authorities and taking into consideration the provision in the National Budget.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, my ministry does not have sufficient budgetary provision to construct modern markets in all the seventy-two local authorities country-wide. Currently, the ministry is implementing an Urban Markets Development Programme in three cities, namely Lusaka, Ndola and Kitwe. This programme is supported with funding from the European Development Fund. Due to the limitation of the grant, only two markets in Ndola - Ndeke and Chisokone markets - are on the programme.

Mr Speaker, the Government has envisaged that once these markets have been completed and are fully operational, part of the funds realised from the operations may be utilised by the local authority to rehabilitate other markets within the districts such as Mine Masala, Kalulushi and Lubuto markets

It is intended that, with funds permitting, the programme could be extended to rehabilitate other selected markets in the other seven provincial capitals. It is also envisaged that some of the funds that will continue to be realised from the fully and viable markets in Lusaka and Copperbelt would then be used to rehabilitate existing markets in other districts country-wide.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, as much as we appreciate that the Government is constructing other markets in Ndeke and town centre, it must be known…

Mr Sejani: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Actually, it is a constitutional point of order and I seek your guidance.

Mr Speaker, in various fashions, we have all shown to uphold the provision of this Constitution. I am raising this point of order in respect of the former hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central. By public knowledge, we all know that he resigned from his position as hon. Member of Parliament. This Constitution is very clear on the status of a person who is no longer an hon. Member of this House. There are designated places where they are supposed to sit and that is in the Strangers Gallery.

Laughter

I am going to read the relevant parts of the Constitution. It says: 

“Any person who is appointed or elected to an office established by this Constitution may resign from the office by writing under his hand addressed to the persons or authority by whom he was appointed or elected.”

Part (2) of this Article states that:

“The resignation of any person from any office established by this Constitution shall take effect when the writing signifying the resignation is received by the person or authority to whom it is addressed or by any person authorised by that person or authority to receive it.”

Hon. Opposition Member: Correct!

Mr Sejani: It is very clear.

Mr Matongo: It is very clear!

Mr Sejani: Is the former hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central in order to take his seat in this Chamber and not seek his rightful place in the Public Gallery where he belongs?

Laughter

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I seek your serious guidance on this matter.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: First of all, I am trying to look out for him. Alright, I have seen him. I did not see the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama.

The ruling of the Chair is that, indeed, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central has written to the Hon. Mr Speaker stating that he no longer intends to be a Member of Parliament with effect from 27th July, 2009. Therefore, it is the understanding of the Chair that this shall remain so until the stated date.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: The ruling is clear. If there is anybody who would like to challenge that ruling, there are ways by which you can do that.

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabushi continue, please?

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was saying that as much as we appreciate that other markets are being constructed in Ndola, the Government must realise that the main market is the …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Please, give him chance to ask the question.

Mr Msichili: Madam Speaker, in Ndola, Kabushi Constituency is the main centre for Ndola which caters for all other constituencies. Now, the hon. Minister responded that it is the duty of the local authority, and yet year in and year out we have been submitting to this Government that we would like to have a modern market in Ndola and let alone on the Copperbelt. What is the ministry doing to ensure that we have this market constructed in Kabushi Constituency?

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should appreciate the fact that the Copperbelt has benefited greatly from this programme of construction of modern markets.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Dr Puma: Ndola and Kitwe, alone, have had two markets. When funds were available, the local councils were consulted on which markets were priority. It was established that Chisokone and Ndeke were a priority as identified by the local authorities. Therefore, in future, when funds are available, other markets will be considered then, not only in Ndola, but also countrywide.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned two markets in Ndola that are to be constructed under the Urban Market Development Programme. May I find out from him when works on these markets commenced and what time frame they have given themselves to complete the construction of these two markets, given the background that there is one market under this same programme whose construction commenced eleven years ago, in 1998? To date, that market in Chilenje, being constructed under this very programme and being financed by the same donor, the European Union, eleven years later has not been completed. Is that the same work record that is to be set for Ndeke and Chisokone markets in Ndola? If not, can he indicate to the House when he intends to complete the construction of Chilenje Market under the programme with the same financier?

The Deputy Chairperson: That is a loaded question. Hon. Minister, you may refer to it, but the question was on the markets in Kabushi.

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, the markets in Ndola are already under construction and the works are progressing well. We are expecting that we should be able to complete the construction of the two markets in Ndola by next year.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that local authorities are responsible for the construction of these markets. I want to look at two markets which are Chisokone in Kitwe and Ndola. These two markets are being controlled by the MMD cadres who have been empowered, and yet we know that these markets are capable of raising enough revenue through the councils to construct modern markets. Why is it that the hon. Minister is protecting Zambia National Marketeers Association (ZANAMA) and denying the council the collection of revenue from these two markets?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: May you, please, ask questions that are relevant to the question under consideration. The question is, really, on Mine Masala, Kabushi and Lubuto. Unless the hon. Minister thinks he has a bonus answer to give, he may choose not to refer to the question.

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, the ministry is in the process of appointing market boards that will be running these markets. As far as we are concerned, the local councils are working closely with marketeers to ensure that markets are run in the best way possible.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MEDICAL PERSONNEL ESTABLISHMENT IN ZAMBEZI

250. Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) what the total establishment of medical doctors, clinical officers and nurses at Zambezi District Hospital was;

(b) whether all the positions were filled up; and

(c) if not, what measures had been taken to ensure that the hospital had adequate medical personnel.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Akakandelwa): Mr Speaker, the total establishment for the medical doctors, clinical officers and nurses at Zambezi District Hospital is as follows:

Cadre                         Establishment/Funded Posts          Staff in Post

Medical Officer                                   2                                                 3

Clinical Officer                                    5                                                  1

Nurses                                               36                                                17

Total                                                   43                                                21

Sir, currently, not all positions are filled up. There is need to recruit four clinical officers and twelve nurses in order to fill up the gap for the Zambezi District Hospital. All these positions are funded and the ministry is in the process of recruiting these staff.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has taken the following measures to ensure that adequate health workers are available not only in Zambezi, but also all health facilities throughout the country:

(i) the ministry has embarked on the introduction of the Direct Entry Midwifery Programme to increase the number of midwives in the country. The first students will graduate in December, 2009;

(ii) the ministry has a National Training Operational Plan aimed at scaling up student intakes for the period 2007 to 2012. The aim of the plan is to increase the production of health workers in order to mitigate the human resources against health crisis;

(iii) the ministry has embarked on rural posting for new graduates to ensure that rural health facilities receive adequate staff; and

(iv) the Government has signed a memorandum of understanding with UNFPA to provide for financial support to student-nurses in training institutions in North-Western Province and the recipients sign a bonding agreement to work in health facilities within the province for a minimum period of two years. In this regard, the Ministry is able to improve the staff levels at the hospitals, Zambezi District Hospital inclusive, in the province.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, two weeks ago, two patients died because there were no medical personnel to attend to them including one woman who had a breach and needed a caesarean section.

Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister state clearly that this Government is responsible for those deaths and many deaths in other hospitals due to its negligence and inability to provide adequate medical personnel to our health institutions.

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, this Government may not take direct responsibility for those deaths because the circumstances that prevailed needed to have been investigated. However, I can state that as alluded to in our reply, we are mindful and aware of the staffing crisis and this is why we are running a crash course. Instead of a three years midwifery course, we are doing a two year strictly midwifery to address issues of maternal health.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, the recent happenings in the Ministry of Health, pertaining to strikes, is a testimony of the fact that this Government has failed to put in place measures to ensure that there is smooth running of our health institutions in this country. What measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that the sad situation that occurred recently does not recur in this country where we lost so many human lives due to the negligence of this uncaring Government?

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, the emotions exhibited by the hon. Member are unwarranted. It is not right for the hon. Member to portray a picture that he is more caring than the Government.

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Akakandelwa: I have outlined, in my reply, the measures that we are taking. Although this has not been included in the reply, there are thoughts of establishing a second medical school. You are aware hon. Member that the issue is not that we are not training sufficient doctors but that health workers all over the world are much sort. And we should appreciate the measures that the Government has put in place to retain doctors. In fact, there is a reverse process where more doctors are coming back because of the good works of this Government.

Interruptions

Mr Akakandelwa: So, the Government has done, is doing, and is going to do more to bring back the doctors. If the hon. Member is speaking from without, let him come to the office and I will show him the statistics.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, in answering part (b) of the question, the hon. Minister did not give the exact figures and I was hoping he would do that. The last time I checked the staffing levels in our hospitals, establishment versus actual is about 30 percent. Now that signifies a crisis and I am happy that the hon. Minister has admitted that there is a crisis.

Mr Speaker, in the last strike, this Government was ready to fire all the medical personnel, that is, the nurses, and bring in Zimbabwean nurses to replace them. I would like the hon. Minister to tell me what has changed. If we are in a crisis, is the Government playing hide and seek or is the Government taking us for granted not to give us medical staff and yet it was ready, during the strike, to bring in Zimbabwean workers who were ready to work for less money? I would like the hon. Minister to explain that action.

Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, the staffing levels are not as low as 30 per cent. Your figures are wrong and I can challenge you on this. Secondly, the nurses who were on strike who should have been fired have not been fired and so what he is saying is a non-issue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ACCIDENTS ON GREAT EAST ROAD

251. Mr Tembo (Nyimba) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport what measures had been taken to reduce the increasing number of road traffic accidents on the Great East Road.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) carried out a road safety assessment on the Great East Road from 28th January to 1st February 2008. The road safety assessment was undertaken in order to view key portions of the road, analyse observations and make recommendations for possible improvements to reduce the number of road traffic accidents being recorded.

The assessment was conducted along a stretch of 584 kilometres of the T4 Road from Lusaka through Chipata to Mwami Border. The Road Safety Agency identified a number of problems and appropriate recommendations were made to the Road Development Agency (RDA) and the concerned local authorities for action. Some of the recommendations included:

(i) the need to have proper vegetation control especially on curves to increase visibility;

(ii) installation of advance warning signs of curves to aid navigation;

(iii) reduction of speed limits in areas with high incidence of roadside communities;

(iv) reinstate and pave the shoulders in all sections where they are worn out or are non-existent; and

(v) installation of road signs and other information signs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, from the reply, is the hon. Minister aware that more accidents were recorded last year due to lack of road signs, in particular in the area between Luangwa and Nyimba? If he is aware, what is the ministry doing to address the issue?

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, we have indicated, in our response, that the ministry, through the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), did undertake an assessment of the state of safety on the affected road. A number of factors were taken into account, including road signs and the findings of that assessment have been communicated to the relevant executing institutions, like the local authorities, Road Development Agency (RDA) and other relevant bodies. Now, that is what the ministry, through RTSA, has been able to do. What should be appreciated is that safety on our roads has two dimensions. One dimension has to do with the state of the infrastructure while the other dimension is with regard to the enforcement of existing regulations affecting the use of the roads.

Now, the management of those two aspects involves a number of actors, being RTSA, RDA and local authorities. All these bodies have to work together. This is what the current state is. As a ministry, we have been able to provide the information. Now, all of us, as Members of councils, have to take responsibility in our respective councils to ensure that we participate in making our roads safe for our people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, driving under the influence of alcohol is a major contributor to road traffic accidents. Previously, we heard that random tests would be carried out, but when are you going to implement that so that you reduce on the number of accidents?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, breathalysers are already in use by RTSA and that is a programme which is already being undertaken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I just want to find out whether the hon. Minister has realised that traffic signs on an important road like the Great East Road have only been done up to Luangwa Bridge instead of being done up to Mwami Border. Can he tell us when this very useful exercise is going to be completed, taking into consideration the contours on that road and the fact that it has a very difficult landscape, and drivers have to be constantly warned about what they are going to find in front?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we have indicated that an assessment of the state of safety on the road in question was undertaken. I have a report here which indicates the different factors that were taken into account and I will just mention a few. For example, feasibility and sight distance, speed limit and speedy zoning, width and shoulders, general signs, curve warning and delineation, centre lines, edge lines, lane lines, guide posts and reflectors, intersections, guard rails, pedestrian railings, barriers, pavements and shoulder quality, rest areas and humps, including cyclists and the interaction between communities and road facilities. All these factors were taken into account in this assessment and the information on the state of the road with regard to these different factors has been communicated to the relevant authorities for execution by the local authorities.

Mr Speaker, what I said earlier is that improvement of safety on our roads involves not only the Ministry of Communication and Transport, through its agency like RTSA, but other agencies as well, like local authorities and RDA, who deal with the infrastructure component. The information has already been given to relevant executing agencies.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I want to ask a practical specific question. About this time last year, the Committee on Estimates of which Hon. F. R. Tembo was a member, and I was also a member at the time, came across an overturned bus with an estimated thirty-five people dead and many more injured in the escarpment on the other side of Luangwa River from Lusaka. It became very clear - and I am sure the hon. Minister or his advisors can remember this massive accident because it made the international press. What has happened to the people who knew that the tyre was defective on the bus, but kept driving at a higher speed? What has happened to the driver or conductor who overloaded that bus by stopping frequently? What has happened to the RTSA patrols which fail to actually move on that road, but are seated at the borders and collecting taxes of one sort and another? What actually happened to stop that senseless carnage recurring or are we just dealing in more consultancies?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, it is not dealing with more consultancies, but it is dealing in matters which are very important to the safety of our people on the roads. This is a very responsible Government.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Professor Lungwangwa: It is extremely responsible and that is why we undertake these assessments in order to be able to understand what the problems are. With that specific question that is being raised, the relevant agencies of the Government are handling it, like the police who follow up traffic cases.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, the fact is that RTSA has done its job by coming up with recommendations. Can we, therefore, learn from the Government when we expect the implementation of these recommendations?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, it is not a question of when, but the implementation process by various local agencies or different agencies who are involved has started.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that accidents on our roads, some of which are a result of vehicles which break down and failure by people driving those breakdown vehicles to give proper warning signs in form of warning triangles are the order of the day, when will RTSA, which is under your ministry, ensure that they sensitise people on the need to use warning signs whenever there is a breakdown instead of using FDD symbols of leaves and branches?

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member for Chasefu takes time to watch television, he must have seen a very useful and educative programme on television by RTSA called ‘Smart Life is Precious’. That programme is aimed at educating the public on how to use the road and maintain safety to themselves as well as the general public. So, the educational programme by RTSA is already in place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I would like to know when vegetation control is supposed to be undertaken. I ask that question because in most cases it is undertaken well after the rainy season.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, first of all, as a road user, himself, and secondly as a councillor, the hon. Member is supposed to give the answer to that question. All of us are expected to take responsibility in our respective councils for vegetation control on those roads that fall within our jurisdiction. Clearly, once the vegetation has become a hindrance to sight on the road, it is supposed to be controlled so that the road becomes safer for all users.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

INDIGENOUS NON-HYBRID SEEDS

252. Dr Chishya (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many varieties of the following indigenous non-hybrid type of seeds the inistry was engaged in stocking and extension work, name by name:

(i) grains;
(ii) pulses;
(iii) tubers and roots;
(iv) vegetables; and
(v) fruits; and

(b) which of the types at (a) were commonly cultivated in Zambia and had export potential.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kalenga): Mr Speaker, the number of indigenous non-hybrid type crop varieties of seed (locally bred) that the ministry is engaged in stocking and extension work, are as follows:

(i)   Grains
 
Crop               Varieties
Maize                   8
Sorghum              6
Wheat                22
Pearl millet            8
Finger millet          4
Rice                     3
Castor                 1
Sunflower           6
Guar                    1
Cotton                  5
Sun hemp            1

(ii) Pulses

Crop               Varieties
Bambara             2
Beans                10
Cow peas           5
Soya beans        7
Pigeon peas        1
Velvet beans      1
Groundnuts       12

(iii) Tuber and roots

Crop                Varieties
Cassava               8
Sweet potatoes    8

(iv) Vegetables

Crop               Varieties
Amaranthus          2
Okra                      2
Pepper                  1
Rape                     2

(v) As for fruits, there are no crop varieties.

As regards part (b), the following crop varieties are commonly cultivated in Zambia and have export potential:

(i) Grains

Crop                Varieties
Maize                      5
Sorghum                 2
Wheat                     5
Cotton                     3
Sun hemp                1

(ii) Pulses

Crop                Varieties
Beans                      7
Cowpeas                 2
Soya beans             6
Groundnuts             7

(ii) Tuber and roots

Crop                 Varieties
Cassava                  7
Sweet potato           6

(iii) There are no vegetable crop varieties.

(iv) There are also no varieties for fruits.

Other details are as follows:

(i) Grains

Crop                                                    Variety

Maize (Zea mays L.)                        MMV 400 (op)
                                                         MMV 600 (op)
                                                         Pool 16 (op)
                                                         POP 10 (op)
                                                         POP (op)
                                                         ZM 421 (op)
                                                         ZM 521 (op)
                                                         ZM 621 (op)

Sorghum (Sorghum bicolor L.)         ZSV 1 (op)
                                                         Framida (R/op)
                                                         Sima (op)
                                                          Kuyuma (op)
                                                          ZSV 12 (op)
                                                          ZSV 15 (op)

Pearl millet (Pennisetum typhoides)   Kaufela
                                                          Lubasi
                                                          Sepo
                                                          Tuso
                                                          Kuomboka
                                                          Mulatiwa
                                                          Liseli
                                                          Dola

Finger millet (Eleusine voracana)     Lima
                                                         Nyika
                                                         Senga
                                                         Chibuli

(ii) Pulses

Crop                                                  Variety

Bambara (Vigna subterranea L.)       Fubila
                                                           Malumbe

Beans (Phaseolus vulgaris)               Chambeshi (A 197)
                                                           Lyambai
                                                           Lukupa
                                                           Kalungu
                                                           Kabulangeti
                                                           Kapisha
                                                           Kabala

Cowpea (Vigna unguiculata)             Lutembwe
                                                           Bubebe
                                                           Katete

Pigeon pea (Cajanus cajan)              Luangwa

Groundnut (Arachis hypogea)          Chalimbana
                                                          MGV 4
                                                          Chipego
                                                          Champion
                                                           Luena
                                                           MGV 5

(iii) Tubers and roots

Crop                                                    Variety

Cassava (Manihot esculentum)       Bangweulu
                                                         Nalumino
                                                         Kapumba
                                                         Kampolombo
                                                         Chila
                                                         Tanganyika
                                                         Mweru

Sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas)     Zambezi
                                                         Luapula
                                                         Chingovwa
                                                         Mulungushi
                                                         Kafue
                                                         Lukulu
                                                         Luangwa
                                                         Lunga

(iv) Vegetables

Crop                                                 Variety

Amaranthus (Amaranthus spp)       UNZA A1
                                                         UNZA A2

Okra (Hibiscus esculentus)             Clemson spineless

Rape (Brassica napus)                    NIRS 1
                                                         Nanga

OP stands for open-pollinated while R/op is retained-open-pollinated.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, the list given by the hon. Minister is a mixture of indigenous and exotic varieties. Could the hon. Minister tell us what plans or measures the ministry is putting in place to revitalise the indigenous dietary culture of Zambia rather than depending so much on exotic foods?

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, through the Zambia Agriculture Research Institute, we have a blood bank, sorry, a grain bank.

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: This grain bank is very active and it is from there that we select various indigenous species that we research on in the environment in which they have been collected. We have some information as to the potential of these varieties to be part and parcel of our grains and tubers. However, the next stage that is required is to partner with the private sector in the promotion of these varieties. So I can assure my colleague that something, small as it is, is actually being done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, in response to the question, particularly part (a) subsection (v), I heard the hon. Minister say that there were no fruit varieties. Now, I want to know …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I cannot hear the question. Let us consult quietly.

You may continue.

Mr Mwansa: Sir, my recollection is that in the 1970s and 1980s there was a programme by the Zambian Government through the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training to domestic certain foods in this country, like masuku, to ensure that we continue to cater for our dietary needs as a people. I would like to find out what has happened to that programme?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, what I am aware of in that direction of research was in value addition. I think I have to go back to my books and look at the actual promotion of the cultivation of indigenous species. Certainly, inroads were made in researching into the value addition of masuku and other products.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Sir, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister bearing in mind that he is aware that the resilience and potential of non-hybrid grains has diminished over the years due to the over dependence on fertilisation. I would like to know whether the Government has a deliberate policy to try and maintain the potency and resilience of these indigenous grains especially on the part of maize. In the past, we had Gankata, Kafwamba and Kenya that can now no longer grow in the soils where hybrid seeds had been planted.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in my response to the supplementary question, I stated that we do have a very lively bank that links with the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) plants and seeds. The purpose of this bank is to retain the characteristics of these seeds and tubers.

Clearly, over the years, bearing in mind the increase in population and demand, we have been prompted to use hybrid seeds. However, we are conscious of the fact that we must retain that which truly is indigenous and we are making efforts to do so.

With regard to the degradation of the soils, it goes hand in hand with productivity. It is not only the quality of the seed, but also the nutrients in the soil which contribute to production. One cannot succeed without paying attention to all the factors of production. Therefore, the two, really go hand in hand, even when our indigenous seeds and tubers were very productive, it was just an indication that the soils could accommodate the productivity of those varieties. Not all is lost.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the SADC Plant Genetic Resource Centre and the Natural Genetic Resource Centre have made inroads in the Southern Province in trying to support the use of indigenous seeds as well as in Lusaka, Rufunsa in particular. I would like to find out specifically what the Government is doing to extend the same programme to the other parts of the country?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, programmes are undertaken after identifying certain deficiencies in specific areas. When those deficiencies are identified in other areas and funds permitting, I am sure this programme will be extended.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, it is of course, a very complicated question, but the answer was a list of recommended varieties, most of which are not indigenous at all. In Kuyuma, we have a sorghum variety which was selected from imported stock and Kingofwa is a sweet potato which actually comes from Angola, together with Gankata which, I think, was somewhere near the heart of the question. What has happened to our traditional maize varieties and the tradition of having hard maize which can be stored in the village unlike this soft hybrid maize which always rots and needs to be sold as quickly as possible? I think the question is about alternative approaches to the genetics of crop production and not about just a long list of everything that you are working on to grow.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the question was on how many varieties of  indigenous non-hybrid types of seed the ministry is engaged in stocking and providing extension work for.

Sir, we have to provide an answer. There are, maybe, one or two types that might not be indigenous on our list, but all I can say in response to the question must be in line with what the ministry is doing.

Firstly, the ministry has put in place measures not to lose our indigenous genetic materials. Secondly, we are aware that this hard grain like maize type is still being cultivated by our people. However, should we lose it, we have recourse where we can get the seed and regenerate it, in order to retain its characteristics.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

GRADUATES EMPLOYED BY ZAMBIA PRISONS SERVICE

253. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many university graduates were employed in the Zambia Prisons Service and what positions they held; and

(b) what plans the ministry had to attract more university graduates into the  
               prisons service.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Phiri): Mr Speaker, thirty-four (34) university graduates are currently employed by the Zambia Prisons Service and they hold the following positions: two deputy commissioners, four assistant commissioners, three chief superintendents, five senior Superintendents, and twenty assistant superintendents.

As regards the last part of the question:

(i) the Zambia Prison Service employs university graduates directly to the rank of assistant superintendent;

(ii) retention allowance has been introduced and is paid to all graduate officers; and

(iii) education tours abroad are given to the graduates to enable them have vast knowledge of correctional matters.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the essence of establishing the prisons is to rehabilitate offenders. How does the hon. Minister expect the rehabilitation to go on smoothly if the university graduates are only involved at administration level and not in the changing of these prisoners or convicts by way of imparting knowledge directly to them?

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I do not quite agree with what the hon. Member is saying. If you recall, one of my answers, particularly the last one stated that we involve the graduates in educational tours so that they can acquire vast knowledge on correctional matters. I hope he understands what correctional matters are.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Bwalya (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, in order to attract more university graduates into the Zambia Prisons Service and, of course, to motivate them, is the hon. Minister considering sending more prison officers on United Nations peace keeping missions for them to be exposed to international standards?

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, indeed, we do send them for peace-keeping missions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, in line with the answer that has been provided by the hon. Minister, are there any plans to relate the activities of the prisoners to the Ministry of Education with a view to introducing schools and specific curricula in prisons in order to advance the prisoners in terms of studying so that they can come out as better citizens?

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, within the prison setup, we have programmes that are designed to educate the prisoners.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi) Mr Speaker, the number of graduates seems to be too minimal. Is the Government not considering sending the serving officers to the University of Zambia for further studies as is the case in other Government departments?

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, initially, I was trying to restrict myself to the question asked by Hon. Kambwili, but I would like to confirm to you that apart from attracting graduates into the Prison Service, we, within the prisons, have a programme of developing the existing staff. At the moment, we have twenty-five officers who are studying with various universities within the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, does the Ministry of Home Affairs have plans, in the near future, to review the salaries and Conditions of Service for graduates employed in the ministry in order to attract more of them, as thirty-four is a very small number?

Mr D. Phiri: Yes, thirty-four represents 2 per cent of the current strength which, indeed, is very low. As I have said, we have put aside money, on an annual basis, where we are training the existing staff. As I have said, we have twenty-five officers right now and it is our intention to ensure that, on a yearly basis, many more of our serving officers are exposed to further training at universities.

NAPSA INVESTMENT IN LOTTO COMPANY

254. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) how much money the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) had invested in the Lotto Company;

(b) who authorised the investing of NAPSA funds into the company;

(c) how much profit had been made on the Lotto investment from inception to date; and

(d) whether there were any plans to continue with the NAPSA investment in the Lotto Company.

The Deputy Minister of Labour (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, NAPSA invested the sum of US $2,750,000 in the Lotto Company.

Mr D. Mwila: How much?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The loud consultations are making it difficult for people follow the debate and somebody is asking how much was invested because of that. Can we listen to the answers so that those who want to ask follow-up questions can do so without hindrance? Can you continue, please?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, I will repeat the answer. NAPSA invested the sum of US $2,750,000.

The investment was dully approved at the meeting of the members of the Investment Committee on 7th April, 2008. The said meeting was chaired by the Chairperson of the Board of Trustees of the authority.

Mr Speaker, the investment has not yielded any returns, as Zambian Lotto has not paid any dividends to its equity holders. The company started operations in the second quarter of 2008. NAPSA has so far received two reports on the operations of the company since commencement of business. NAPSA, as a shareholder, has demanded detailed information on certain aspects of Zambian Lotto and has also directed engagement of professional staff as well as the establishment of corporate governance structures to ensure transparency and accountability in the way the company is being managed.

Sir, NAPSA is currently negotiating with Zambian Lotto on the mode of exiting from the investment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, it is one year, now, since this company was established. I would like the hon. Minister to inform this House whether this was a viable business venture.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, the later part of the answer states that NAPSA is trying to find ways and means of pulling out of this investment programme.

Mr D. Mwila interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: No, do not engage him!

Mr Liato: That means that NAPSA has not found it viable and that is why they are looking at options of pulling out.

Interruptions

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should state categorically and fairly to this august House. If the Lotto Company commenced operations last year, and Zambia’s financial year ends on 31st March, which is the trading period, why has the company not produced the final accounts to determine whether there was a break-even, loss or profit? We need to have a categorical answer and not a crude answer like the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security has given.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, I may have to repeat myself. First of all, let me inform the House that this programme was entered into by NAPSA. At that time, there was a different director-general and chairperson of the board and these positions have since changed hands. I think that, at the moment, the current management at NAPSA has discovered that the best thing for NAPSA is to pull out from that investment programme.

Now, if you want to find out why, ask that question and you will be given answers like you have asked this question. I do not need to answer whether the programme is viable of or not.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Liato: As you have requested, I was saying that management has not found it viable and that is why they have decided to pull out because they have not found it profitable.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I would like to believe that a due diligence study was done by NAPSA before they got into this investment. From what you are telling us, obviously, it was a non-viable investment. If a due diligence study was conducted, why did this company invest in a business that was not capable of producing profits or even giving statements of accounts on its operations?

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, it looks like I am answering the same question but using different words. The money that was invested in Zambian Lotto was invested under a management programme and reasonable consultations were done according to the standards of the company. The investment portfolio responsible for these investment programmes did sit and seek authority from the responsible organ that was responsible for this programme. At that stage, according to them, they found it viable. One year down the line, no returns have come to NAPSA. NAPSA has since revisited this programme. In management, you can always revisit a programme that you made. They have done that and now they are finding ways of pulling out.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell us whether there was insurance in the money that NAPSA invested in Lotto, in the event that the money that was invested is won by the bidders.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, without having details on my finger tips, I want to assume that before an investment committee gets into any investment programmes, they would obviously look at ways and means of safeguarding the money as it goes into the investment programmes. Insurance is one of them and that must have been done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, NAPSA are managers of national funds. In the Mubuyu Investment case, an investment of US $6.9 million went sour. In the Zambia Airways Investment, an investment to the tune of US $2 million went sour. In Zambian Lotto, an investment of US$ 2.75 million has also gone sour. As an hon. Minister and overseer of this institution that looks after important national funds for the poor people and retirees, what are you doing to ensure that, in future, such investments of public funds are not directed into areas where, at the end of the day, people will lose because NAPSA management are involved in gambling?

Mr Muntanga laughed.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, I thank my good cousin for that question. I have said it before and I will repeat this to the House. We have removed the Director-General who was at NAPSA. We have tried to address the question of management at NAPSA. The Director-General who went into the issues of Mubuyu, Lotto and Zambian Airways is no longer there. His contract was terminated. The Government has taken steps to address the situation of management at NAPSA in order to protect the pensioners’ funds. Beyond that, the new management has also moved further to deal with issues of money which was in the Mubuyu Project. It has since been claimed back from the bank. We have also pulled out from that programme altogether as an institution. I have also dealt with the issue of the money which was in Zambian Airways and that money has since been given back to NAPSA. This is the third item we are bringing up. It is under very active consideration and it is being managed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has done very well to elaborate that the NAPSA deal inside Mubuyu Farms was nipped in the bud and that the transaction was reversed. I congratulate him for that. I want him to tell this House what the fundamental difference is between the right things he did to reverse the Mubuyu deal and the Zambian Lotto deal. Is there anything sacrosanct about this Zambian Lotto deal that you have to wait until, maybe, Jesus comes? Why can you not stop it today?

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, there is absolutely nothing sacrosanct in the case of Zambian Lotto. It is just that management has to be careful about the procedures and the legalities involved. Otherwise, the process of pulling out is on and, I think, we just have to be procedural about it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_________{mospagebreak}

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE NOTARIES PUBLIC AND NOTARIAL FUNCTIONS (Amendment) BILL, 2009

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Notaries Public and Notarial Functions (Amendment) Bill.

The Deputy Chairperson: The Bill Stands referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 4th August, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANISATION BILL, 2009

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I am a bearer of a message from the President recommending favourable consideration of the Motion which I now lay on the Table.

Mr Kaingu laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Non-Governmental Organisation Bill whose objectives are:

(a) to provide for registration and co-ordination of Non-Governmental Organisations;

(b) to establish the Non-Governmental Organisations’ Registration Board and Zambia Congress of Non-Governmental Organisations;

(c) to constitute the council of Non-Governmental Organisations;

(d) to enhance the transparence, accountability and performance of Non-Governmental Organisations; and

(e) to provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 4th August, 2009. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.

Thank you.

THE HEALTH PROFESSIONS BILL, 2009

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Health Professions Bill, 2009. The objects of the Bill are to:

(a) continue the existence of the Medical Council of Zambia and rename it as the Health Professions Council of Zambia;

(b) provide for the registration of health practitioners and regulate their professional conduct;

(c) provide for the licensing of health facilities and the accreditation of health care services provided by health facilities;

(d) provide for the recognition and approval of training programmes for health practitioners;

(e) repeal the Medical and Allied Professions Act, 1977; and

(f) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

_____

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE APPOINTMENT OF LIEUTENANT COLONEL GODFREY ROBERT KAYUKWA AS DIRECTOR-GENERAL OF THE ANTI-CORRUPTION COMMISSION

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the appointment of Lieutenant Colonel Godfrey Robert Kayukwa to serve as Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission laid on the Table of the House on 30th April, 2009.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr B. Y. Mwila (Nchelenge): I beg to second the Motion, Mr Speaker,

Mr C. K. B. Banda SC.: Mr Speaker, the appointment of Lieutenant Colonel Godfrey Robert Kayukwa was made pursuant to the provision of Section 16 (1) of the Anti-Corruption Commission Chapter 91 of the Laws of Zambia which states and I quote:

‘There shall be a Director-General who shall be appointed by the President subject to ratification by the National Assembly.’

Mr Speaker, your committee took into account the current public opinion on the need for commitment and impartiality of the Office of the Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). As you may be aware, the ACC has become an important watchdog on corruption and will invariably enhance democracy and good governance in Zambia. Candidates for the post of Director-General of the ACC ought, therefore, to be subjected to stringent scrutiny so that only a capable and committed citizen is appointed to this office. Guided by these criteria and to facilitate their deliberations, your Committee summoned representatives of the security agencies and relevant professional bodies.

Mr Speaker, I wish to report to you that all the state security agencies which included the Zambia Police, the Drug Enforcement Commission and the ACC informed your Committee that a search of their records had revealed that there were no adverse reports against the nominee in relation to criminal activities, drug trafficking, money laundering, drug abuse and corrupt practices. The state security agencies also confirmed, to your Committee, that the nominee is a Zambian citizen and would not pose a security risk to the nation if appointed to serve in this sensitive position for which he is being considered.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also interacted with some professional bodies and stakeholders intuitions during their deliberations. These included the Law Association of Zambia and Transparency International Zambia.

Mr Speaker, one contentious matter arising from your committee’s interaction with these institutions was the issue surrounding the retirement of the former Director-General which needed to be resolved. The stakeholders wished to be assured that the office of Director-General was vacant. In order to satisfy themselves, your Committee sought audience of the chairperson of the ACC, hon. Justice Valentine Chileshe. In his submission to your Committee, the chairperson assured your committee of the existence of the vacancy in the position of Director-General of the ACC’s office. He explained that the contract of the former director was not renewed upon his retirement at the statutory age of sixty-five years. This position was also confirmed by the appointing authority upon appearance before your Committee.

After analysing the submission from stakeholders on the matter, your Committee resolved to proceed to make a recommendation on the suitability of the nominee. However, they urge the Executive to resolve any outstanding issues, if any, regarding the retirement of the previous Director-General as soon as possible.

Mr C. K. B. Banda SC.: Mr Speaker, your committee, after thorough consideration of the evidence presented to them by the witnesses and the appointing authority and their subsequent interview with the nominee, find the nominee suitably qualifies to be ratified for appointment as Director-General of the ACC. Your Committee observed that the nominee’s profession and occupation…

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Can we, please, listen? We are consulting quite loudly. Therefore, we cannot hear the Motion.

 Can you continue, please?

Mr C. K. B. Banda SC.: Your Committee observed that the nominee’s profession and occupation have exposed him to a wide variety of experience which will enable him effectively handle the demand of the job. The nominee also has personal attributes which have engendered confidence in your Committee that he will be able to perform his duties with diligence and commitment.

In conclusion, allow me to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services and advice rendered during the deliberations. Your Committee wish to place on record their gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for allowing them to serve on this very important select committee. Your Committee also thank the state security and investigative agencies, professional bodies and other stakeholder institutions as well as the nominee himself for the oral and written submissions which assisted your committee in their work.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

The Deputy Chairperson: Can the hon. Member for Kabwata keep order.

Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr B. Y. Mwila: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I note that the mover of the Motion has already addressed the pertinent issues that are in your committee’s report. I am also aware that hon. Members have had an opportunity to read through the report of your committee. I shall, therefore, only highlight a few issues that also caught the attention of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, let me start by commenting on the qualities necessary for one to hold the position of Director-General of the ACC. Apart from the legal requirement that the person holding this position should qualify to hold high judicial office, there are other qualities that are equally important. As the Anti-Corruption Commission submitted to your committee, it is vital that the person to assume the position of Director-General has the following additional attributes: high integrity; fearlessness; impartiality; transparency; accountability and strong interpersonal skills.

Your Committee are happy that most witnesses who commented on the nominee’s suitability for high office of Director-General thought the nominee was deserving of the position.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Y. Mwila: Mr Speaker, let me now comment on the ACC and the place it must occupy in our land. As the events of the past few years will show, fighting corruption is not an easy task because of its nature. It is for this reason that those institutions with the mandate to carry out this task must be adequately capacitated. It is important that hard questions are asked, now, as to why the ACC is finding it difficult to undertake its mandate more efficiently and effectively. We need to ask why it became necessary to appoint another parallel institution namely; the Task Force on Corruption to prosecute cases of corruption. We also need to ask ourselves how long this state of affairs will continue.

Sir, it is my view that this is the right time for the country to bring some pride to the ACC. This is the time to fully capacitate the commission by providing it with adequate funding for its operations and to attract qualified and experienced personnel.

Finally, Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the chairperson of the committee for the able and fair manner in which she handled the business of your Committee.

I urge the House to support the Motion on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the Motion moved by the chairperson and well seconded by my uncle Hon. B. Y. Mwila, Member of Parliament for Nchelenge.

Sir, I think that the Government is now doing very well, especially that it has resolved to financially support the ACC which, for some years, was an affiliate of the tyranny of trynossarous, …

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: … that was created to threaten, humiliate and persecute certain individuals for alleged corrupt practices. Sir, for this reason, I would like to commend the Government for its resolve.

Mr Speaker, in this era, every Zambian understands the evils of corruption. Therefore, I would be failing as an hon. Member of Parliament concerned and effectively representing the people of Bahati, if I do not mention that the ACC must now be seen to stretch its tentacles and knock on the doors of the mass institutions that are using public finances to administer their affairs. That is the essence of good governance, transparency and accountability.

In this era, the desire of the people of Zambia is not only to pay lip service to the fight against corruption. Therefore, people want the ACC with a confident leadership like that in Lieutenant-Colonel Sunday Kayumba. Having looked at his curriculum vitae (CV) …

Hon. Members: Kayukwa!

Mr Chimbaka: Sunday Kayukwa.

Hon. Member: He is not Sunday.

Mr Chimbaka: Thank you for you correction, hon. Members of Parliament.

When I looked at his CV, I was convinced that the man will be competent and effective in the fight against corruption.

Mr Speaker, today, many people are singing about corruption in the Government ministries. However, the Government will only cure this disease if, for example, it moves further, as I earlier stated, and find out what is happening in all mass institutions on how the finances are being managed. Once that is done, we will be arresting the situation of good governance in our country, Zambia.

Sir, we have information that people are now hiding in church mother bodies where accountability of resources is a failure. Accountability of actions and so many other things are dominated by many factors. For lack of understanding and knowing what Transparency International is all about, people have accepted such evil governance.

However, there is need to move a step further. As much as some of the political parties are in opposition, they are potential governments. Therefore, if they are able to talk about the fight against corruption, let them develop that culture, today. This way they will be seen to be moving in the right direction. Even when they will come into government, it will not just be talk because this culture would have been imparted in them. Now, if you are going to talk about Opposition leaders like me, Chimbaka, about corruption, well, then I actually believe and know that in my home there is entrenched corruption in terms of politicking, administration, …

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Chimbaka: … and behaviour. The people of Zambia are watching because they will never be told lies at all.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, a good number of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) have spoken against corruption, but we are yet to see whether they lead according to their words.

Mr Speaker, the time has gone for Zambians to respect politicians who are going to window dress simply because they are inebriated in political fanaticism, assuming that people are unable to perceive whether the sheep in wolves’ skins are the true leaders of the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, we would want to see that institutions that were created to fight corruption, in any case and incident, being backed by the Constitution. I would want to appeal to this august House to consider, also, investigating their way of being active. Have they fought corruption? What has been realised? How much has been expended as against that that has been realised? That is the best way we must live to the reality if we are to fight corruption.

Sir, therefore, I am in support of this beautiful Motion. I would like to say that I am proud that I was part of the committee that is reporting to this House and I want to appeal to every well meaning hon. Member of Parliament and integrity to support the Motion and the report without fail.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, I will be brief and I will begin by stating my gratitude to the committee, and the mover and seconder of the Motion on the appointment of Lieutenant-Colonel Godfrey Robert Kayukwa to serve as Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission.

Mr Speaker, one of the fundamental reasons that has come up to replace Nixon Banda with Lieutenant-Colonel Kayukwa has been occasioned by a matter of Constitutional requirement of the age limitation. Mr Speaker, that came out very clearly in the report by the mover of the Motion that the Chairman of the ACC Hon. Valentine Chileshe’s submission was categorical that Mr Nixon Banda had to retire because he had reached the constitutional retirement age of sixty-five.

Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Government for honouring dispatch of the Constitutional requirement and urge them not to selectively retire people who have reached the Constitutional age of retirement. I am sure the Government understands what I am talking about because in many institutions of Government, they have totally ignored with impunity the limitation of the requirement of the law to retire whoever reaches the Constitutional age of retirement as the case is in the replacement of Nixon Banda, a noble man who reached his retirement age and packed his bags honourably and has been replaced by another noble man Lieutenant-Colonel Kayukwa.

Mr Speaker, we do not have a shortage of noble people who qualify to get into these jobs in any institution of this country that has the Constitutional requirement for retirement.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: I now like to indicate that Lieutenant-Colonel Kayukwa is in his 50’s and I am sure that he will perform very well and will retire when he gets to the age of 65 years. I would like to urge Government or the powers that be not to exercise double standards …

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Can you shut up because this is a serious affair.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member for Mazabuka, the fact that they are disturbing you does not justify your using the phrase ‘shut up’. Let me also appeal to those who are really in the habit of shouting when one is debating to resist from doing so. Will the hon. Member continue, but withdraw the phrase ‘shut up’.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the phrase ‘shut up’ with a lot of constraint. I would like to urge hon. Members to pay attention, especially when we are dealing with serious matters.

Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise that the powers that be, the President must not exercise double standards but retire whoever reaches the retirement age in any Government institution that has the provision requirement in the Constitution. They should pack their bags and go home and rest so that the many upcoming noble Zambians can fill in these gaps.

Mr Speaker, I fully support the appointment of Lieutenant-Colonel Kayukwa to head the institution of the Anti Corruption Commission.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion.

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank both the mover and seconder for ably presenting the Motion. Mr Speaker, it is clear from the report that we are dealing with a triangle. The triangle we are dealing with involves three persons. The three persons are the outgoing holder of the office, the nominee and the Acting Director General. These make up the triangle.

Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that we have found ourselves in a situation where there is this triangle. Mr Speaker, in the future Government must ensure that we do not find ourselves in this situation which is potentially embarrassing. The three persons involved in the triangle are all good people of integrity who are capable in the job that they were doing. It is unfortunate that there seems to have been some kind of juggling and dropping of the ball with regards to the termination of the former Director General’s contract which has led to the questions as to whether or not there is the potential of the Government being sued or not.

It is also regrettable that the Acting Director General was made to act for such a long period and then at the end of the day is passed over in terms of appointment because she too is a person of high integrity and somebody who knows the job very well. During the time she has acted, she has shown tremendous competence and so I would like to put on record that, in spite of her not having been picked, she is somebody whom we, as Zambians, should be very proud of.

Mr Speaker, the third person in the triangle is, of course, your nominee. It is unfortunate that he is being appointed in this situation where we have the triangle. I am sure he would have liked to have been appointed in a non-controversial manner because he too is a person of high integrity and one, who no doubt, will fulfil his duties diligently. My only regret is that there is this triangle and it is incumbent upon the Government to ensure that we do not find ourselves in this situation again.

Mr Speaker, having said that, I would like to state that I fully support the nomination of Lieutenant-Colonel Kayukwa who I have worked with and I can vouch for his competence and integrity from my personal interaction with him. That is unquestionable. I, however, also wish to comment on the fact that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, let us observe time. We are starting two minutes late. Our colleagues who were outside should be reminded that our tea break is only for fifteen minutes. So, in future, let us ensure that we are here on time.

Thank you.

Mr Sikota: Mr Speaker, thank you very much. I was about to observe that one of the sad elements brought out by the report is that apparently, there was some correspondence which was not officially released on the files of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) which somehow found itself in the public domain. I think that this is very sad to have a security organisation which does not keep correspondence which is not yet official to be properly secured. It is important for the ACC to look into this lapse to ensure that the same does not happen again, as it is likely to erode confidence in the institution. This is because there are people who will want to give confidential information to the ACC in the hope that their identity will not be revealed. Now, if they get an impression that the manner in which correspondence is handled at the ACC, some people may be reluctant to offer such information for the fear of being exposed, as the ones who gave out this information. So, it is a very serious security breach.

Mr Speaker, I would like to agree with the seconder of the Motion, who talked about the need for adequate financing for the ACC. For the ACC to be effective there has to be adequate funding given to it. For too long, we have seen inadequate funding being given to this very important institution, and yet, this is an institution which can help us to ensure that those who may wish to plunder the wealth of the nation or who may wish to indulge themselves in corrupt deals which will lead to us not having adequate resources for essentials such as medicines and so forth are going to be brought to book. If we do not give them adequate funding, they will not be able to perform to the kind of expectations that we have. Along side with the ACC being adequately funded, I think other institutions which are helpful in the fight against corruption also need to be adequately funded.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: I am thinking in terms of the Auditor-General’s Office. This office works hand in hand with law enforcement institutions such as the ACC and it is important that it too is adequately funded so that together with the ACC they can help to stop this terrible haemorrhaging that we have in terms of our resources, as we have seen through countless public accounts committee reports over the years. It is worthwhile to even double the amounts of allocations to these two offices because the amount of savings that they would make, if they were adequately funded would more than compensate for the doubling of their budgets.

Mr Speaker, turning back to your nominee, he has two professions which I think put together make him very suitable for the job that he is to get. Coming from the army, I am sure that hon. Members such as Major Chizhyuka, Brigadier-General Chituwo and Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha will agree with me that background leads to you becoming a much disciplined person.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sure! General, ni buzilekoni Chituwo.

Laughter

Mr Sikota: Mr Speaker, his second profession is that of being a lawyer and I am sure Hon. Earnest Mwansa, Hon. Dr Kalombo Mwansa and Hon. Todd Chilembo will agree with me that lawyers …

Interruptions

Mr Sikota: … and even upcoming lawyers, like Hon. Mulongoti.

Laughter

Mr Sikota: … will agree with that having a legal background instils in you a sense of fairness and justice.

Mr Lubinda: Not Mulongoti.

Mr Sikota: So, when you put all these ingredients together, you get a very formidable nominee and one whom we should all support.

Mr Speaker, I would like to turn to the submissions by the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) and Transparency International. I am a slightly disappointed that they declined to make direct submissions on the nominee on the grounds of the possible legal problems that would have been there. I think it would have been prudent for them to afford the committee their wisdom on the opinion on the nominee notwithstanding those problems that they thought may arise.

Hon. Opposition Member: Quality!

Mr Sikota: I think they abdicated their law by deciding to take that route and I hope next time they will still give even in similar circumstances, their opinion on the nominee notwithstanding that they can still say that although you think this nominee is the right person, there are these problems. I think that is the responsible way to go about things.

Mr Speaker, I do not wish to take up too much time. I started off by stating that there is this triangle which, unfortunately, was not a holy trinity. However, the good news is that from the report itself, it would appear that the Government has found a way of unraveling this triangle as there is a note in the report that some kind of arrangement or understanding has been reached with the former Director- General. So I am glad that the Government has found a way out of this triangle.

With those words, I would like to say that I fully support this report.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to your Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, I think that I am highly qualified to say something about this nominee. In the first instance, he was my junior in school at the famous Kafue Secondary School. So the missionary upbringing at that school did sharp us all to take up responsible positions in society. Secondly, we met in the defense force.  He had gone into the air force with various specialisations and I had also gone in there with my services in the medical field. I need not subtract or add anything from the well articulated statements from the mover and seconder of the motion as well as from the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone. The attributes given by them are indeed befitting this nominee.

Mr Speaker, as it has been stated, he is well qualified. We know very well in our country that the temptation for well qualified people to leave for greener pastures is very high. Here is a man who stayed to render his services to the nation. I know from my personal interaction with him that many times he rendered his legal services, totally, free of charge. He has, therefore, lived his life serving mankind. I am confident that he will serve our country through the ACC to the best of his ability.

Mr Speaker, however, in order to succeed, he will need the support, first of all, of the wider citizenry. There is no way that we can conclusively, successfully and in a speedy manner combat corruption if the majority of the citizens want to embrace it. For the success of this institution and other similar ones, the number one supporter must be the citizen.

The second issue is what was referred to as the trinity. For this nominee to succeed, he will need the support of the staff at the ACC. I believe that with his personal attributes, he is a team player. I am sure that the staff there should not fear anything.

Mr Speaker, lastly, when we have qualification, experience and ingredients from the defense forces with a legal mind, then we have the perfect combination to ride on a road no matter how rough it is.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support the nominee. I am confident that he will serve us well in the fight against corruption.

I thank you, Mr Spaeker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, in ratifying this nominee this year, we should be aware that in the last two years this is the second nominee to the ACC who will be ratified by this House. The last nominee was the commissioner of this commission, who was ratified I think some time between 2006 and 2007.

The experience we have had with that nominee, who become a commissioner, reminds me that we should caution the people who we ratify to desist from becoming politicians soon after there ratification. It will be recalled that one commissioner, when he was being presented to your Committee, stated very clearly that he had retired from active politics and therefore, qualified to serve on ACC. Hardly a year later, we saw that person become a campaigner handing mineral water to a preferred candidate in a presidential by-election until the people cried out loud to force him to leave the commission. I really hope and trust that this particular nominee who is being presented to this House is devoid of any political considerations and that he shall not be under any political influence in the execution of his duty.

Secondly, let me say that unlike the idea of the triangle which was referred to by the hon. Member for Livingstone, I think that this is a trinity of confusion because obviously the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) and Transparency International Zambia (TIZ) in appearing before your Committee stated that they were not in a position to make any valuable contribution or recommendation in the absence of clarity on the position of Director-General. This was in view of the fact that there was a trinity of confusion involving first, the commission itself on one hand and secondly, the appointing authority, the Head of State, on the other and thirdly, the Constitution of the land.

While the Constitution in Act 42, I think of 1996, section 5 clearly states that the commission shall operate without any directional interference from any office or person. When the Director-General attained retirement age and applied for an extension, the commission chose to abrogate the provisions of the law by referring to another individual in another office of authority. That is where the trinity of confusion started because also the appointing authority assumed that they had power to comment on whether that officer could continue or not.

I hope that the Commission shall not repeat this. In your Committee’s report, the chairperson stated that regarding the purpose of writing to the appointing authority. The chairperson informed your Committee that although the letter did not expressly state so, the main purpose of writing it was to seek authority to extend the contract, otherwise it would have been pointless to write it. This is against the provisions of the law. The commission did not even have to seek any authority whatsoever. All it had to do was to look at the provisions of the law.

Mr Speaker, the reason I am saying this is because the institution ought to operate autonomously not only on matters of appointments, but also on the prosecution of corrupt practices.

Now if they cannot make a decision on the renewal of the contract without referring to the appointing authority, one then thinks there is substance in the arguments of many people in society. Additionally, before some people are prosecuted, the ACC goes to the appointing authority to ask for permission. That is what is disturbing the fight against corruption. The law is not written in that fashion. It permits ACC to operate without any interference or direction from any office.

Mr Speaker, it is also disheartening to read in the report how the former Director-General was treated. It is very clear from the report that when the former Director-General applied for an extension to his contract, the commission sat in April, 2008 and resolved to extend the contract. However, before they could hand over the letter of extension to him, they went to the appointing authority, while the former Director-General was under the impression that his contract had been extended. That was the basis on which TIZ and LAZ felt they would not take part in recommending a new person for the job before the current holder was finally retired. This person, according to your Committee’s report was only informed verbally of the fact that his application for the renewal of his contract had been rejected. That is not how to manage matters that affect citizens of the country.

I am also perturbed to read in your Committee’s report that, actually, at the time of discussing this matter, there was willing and dealing between the former holder of the office and the Government. Your Committee recorded it all on page twelve, where it says that the hon. Minister stated that some understanding had been struck between the former Director-General and the Attorney-General and that what the former seemed to be demanding was not to be reinstated as Director-General, but that he be retired on High Court Judge conditions of service, which would entitle him 80 per cent of his salary for the rest of his life. Surely, is that the way we are going to run our country, where retirees are going to use underhand methods to change their conditions of service? Does this imply that every person who retires will be given that same latitude to go and make  negotiations? If it is not provided for in the law, should His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice be coming to this House to amend the Anti-Corruption Commission Act so that the provisions for the retirement benefits of the holder of the Director-General’s office are provided for in the statutes to avoid this issue of negotiating long after a person’s retirement age. Unless we do that, we are going to be running a country that has no proper system and will depend on the whims of individuals. As a country we cannot run a system like that, we ought to be sure what the retirement benefits of every officer are so that we avoid the idea of striking deals as has been reported in this report.

Sir, let me conclude by agreeing with the fact that ACC shall not succeed in its performance simply by changing officers. The officers of ACC are very well qualified to perform their functions outlined by the law. What is lacking there is funding. They do not have sufficient funding. It will be recalled that early this year, those of us on the left of this House urged the Government to increase the funding to the offices of the Auditor-General and ACC. Unfortunately, our colleagues in Government did not find it prudent to do so at that time.

I hope that they shall back the appointment of this candidate by providing sufficient resources to the ACC.

Additionally, I hope that ACC shall be allowed to operate within the provisions of the law. The idea of coming up with new units without coming to this House to debate their relevance is not good. The ACC, recently, presented to Cabinet a policy which was approved. In that policy, there is no provision for the establishment of new institutions and units, but we are going back to the same idea that every President who comes by is going to establish their own institution to investigate people. That is not the way to govern and strengthen the operations of ACC.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, when we come up with measures to strengthen the institutions of governance in this country, we must bring them for debate on the Floor of this House so that we can all participate in the creation of any new initiatives. We also need to give them the right framework in which to operate. Let us also make sure that this House which has the responsibility of appropriating resources also bears in mind the financial implications of creating such institutions. To just wake up one morning while watching the beautiful leaves in the trees and all the animals that are therein and say you are coming up with a serious frauds unit at ACC without even understanding how a serious frauds unit operates is missing the point. It does not in any way enhance the fight against corruption.

I can see that my good friend, Hon. Mulongoti is saying my time is up. Yes, it is, but please, may I urge Hon. Mulongoti and all the hon. Ministers to be careful when they come up with ideas of establishing new institutions of governance before strengthening the operations of those that already exist.

With these words, I would like to say that I support the appointment of the nominee subject to the fact that when he takes over that office, he will not be acting like the commission’s chairperson who said that for the appointment of an officer, he has to be called to an office. Such behaviour is totally irrelevant in the jigsaw puzzle because it can perpetuate the existence of an unholy trinity.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: I was intending to give the Floor to the Leader of Government Business, I am looking at the time, but Hon. Chizhyuka if you can assure me that you will finish within five minutes, I give you the Floor.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I really intend to speak for five minutes or even less. As you know, for me pragmatism is my political dictum.

Mr Speaker, I am exceedingly concerned with the issues that have been brought on the Floor of this House regarding the difficulty of dealing with the triangle of conflict.the Law Association of Zambia is silent on the nominee. Transparency International decided to remain silent on the nominee. However, here we are, seated as Parliament, the apex institution that makes laws for this country, wanting to ratify the appointment of the nominee. Who else has better knowledge of the nominee than these organisations?

Hon. Government Members: It is us!

Major Chizhyuka: From what we know, man for man or body for body, Mrs Wandi who is the Deputy Director-General appears to be a lawyer of better standing. She appears to have more experience.  We must also consider gender as we deal with some of these matters.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Where is the problem in bringing a lawyer, who, amongst lawyers, including learner lawyers like Hon. Mulongoti …

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: … may not have a record of having performed in a task force. There is no record which you can find even you, yourselves who are saying ‘no’ which can help you to tell that your nominee is better than that lady who is the Deputy Director-General. What is happening to our country? Where is the problem in allowing that lady who is not only a lawyer, but has had a lot of training associated with Scotland Yard and other organisations to take over as Director-General of ACC?

In my opinion, the nominee is qualified, yes. The nominee has been to the military, yes and I have no quarrel with that, but I think that the job of the Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission of the Republic of Zambia, given the two names, I think that the existing Deputy Director who has been acting for a period longer than you normally act …

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: … and performing well should have been considered for the position of Director-General.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major, Chizhyuka: Since you have given me five minutes, I would like to say that I do not agree that the nominee should be made Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission.

As Parliament, we need to come out as we are ratifying someone. We must be satisfied in our body, mind and soul that we are taking the right decision. This decision of allowing this nominee to go through is not the right decision that this House must take.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this Motion.

Sir, I would like to start by acknowledging the wonderful work that was done by the committee. All relevant institutions and individuals were contacted to make their submissions and opinions.  The Motion was ably moved and seconded.

It is gratifying that all investigative wings recommended the appointment of the nominee to the position of Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission.

The nominee, Lieutenant Colonel Godfrey Robert Kayukwa, has had a distinguished service in ZAF, a highly disciplined uniformed service, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and Director of Legal Services.

Upon retirement from ZAF, he joined the National Airports Corporation (NAC) as its very first corporation secretary and established the legal department there.

Later, he was transferred to the Zambia National Insurance Brokers as company secretary. Upon retirement from Zambia Insurance Brokers, Colonel Kayukwa established a private law firm under the name of Sambo Kayukwa and Company.

Since 2002, he has conducted prosecution in various cases in the High Court as a public prosecutor on behalf of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). The nominee is, therefore, eminently qualified to hold the office of Director-General of Anti-Corruption Commission and in accordance with your Committee’s recommendations.

Mr Speaker, issues surrounding the exit from office of the former Director-General of Anti-Corruption Commission should not stand in the way of ratification of the nominees. Remedy for whatever grievances that exist, if any, does not lie in withholding ratification. Channels exist outside this House to address those and we shall endeavour to address them.

Sir, I would like to say that there is no selective approach to the question of contractual arrangements. Each category of workers will have different conditions attached to their Conditions of Service. For instance, under Article 98 (1) (b) of the Constitution, the President is empowered thereunder to appoint a Judge of the High Court or Supreme Court for a further term of seven years or not exceeding seven years.

Mr Speaker, I therefore, urge all hon. Members of this House to support the report and recommendations so that the Anti-Corruption Commission can get the substantive leadership it so much requires.

I would like to conclude by saying that Colonel Kayukwa will provide the best leadership available and history will record him as one of the finest men to grace the office of Director-General of Anti-Corruption Commission.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, may I simply record my appreciation and that of my committee for the overwhelming support that the hon. Members have given to the Motion. I also extend my gratitude to hon. Members who have expressed dissent to the Motion, but as usual the majority carries the day.

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1906 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 17th July, 2009.