DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 2nd March, 2010 

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

DEATH OF HON. MISHECK N’NENECHI BONSHE

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with a fact which is already sadly known that the House lost one of its hon. Members, namely Hon. Misheck N’enechi Bonshe, Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency and Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. The late Hon. Bonshe died on Sunday 28th February, 2010 in Lagos, Nigeria. 

The necessary arrangements are currently being made to bring the body of the late Hon. Bonshe back home for burial. I further wish to inform the House that His Honour the Vice-President will, at an appropriate time, move a Motion to enable the House place on record its condolences on the death of Hon. Misheck N’enechi Bonshe, Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency and Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. 

The condolences of the House will be conveyed to the bereaved family accordingly.

I will now request all hon. Members to stand in their places and observe a minute of silence in honour of the memory of the late hon. Member of Parliament and Deputy Minister of Home Affairs.

Hon. Members of Parliament stood in silence for one minute.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CHOLERA OUTBREAK IN LUSAKA

292. Ms Kapata (Mandevu) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    whether the Government was aware that cholera had broken out in Lusaka and that a number of deaths had occurred;

(b)    why the ministry had not funded the Lusaka Urban District Health Management Team since November, 2009, to enable them contain the outbreak;

(c)    whether the ministry was aware that in Lusaka, health personnel were attending to cholera patients without protective clothing; and 

(d)    what immediate measures the ministry had taken to reduce the risks that health personnel were exposed to while attending to cholera patients.

The Deputy Minister of Health: (Dr Musonda): Mr Speaker, yes, the Government is aware that there is an outbreak of cholera in Lusaka and the ministry, actually, chairs a meeting every Thursday, at 08:00 hours for the National Epidemic Preparedness Prevention Control and Management (NEPPC). This committee is composed of stakeholders, including the ministries responsible for multi-sectoral responses to cholera control and prevention. So, through this committee, various interventions have been effected and are being monitored regularly. Amongst these interventions are the following:

(i)    opening up of treatment centres;

(ii)    mobilisation of drug and medical supplies, especially for affected districts not only in Lusaka, but countrywide;

(iii)    health education, which is ongoing both on electronic and print media;

(iv)    health inspectors are engaged in inspections of public places, markets, eating places, abattoirs and drinking places;

(v)    intensified contact tracing and disinfection of homes, especially where we have some cases; and 

(vi)    liming of pit latrines and many others have been put in place.

Mr Speaker, as of yesterday, 1st March, 2010, there were a total of 108 cholera patients under treatment in Lusaka and no deaths were recorded. However, eleven deaths have occurred in Lusaka since the first case of cholera was reported on 21st January, 2010.

Mr Speaker, it is not true that really the ministry has not been funded the district management team (DHMT). The truth of the matter is that the ministry has been releasing regular grants to the district and an extra sum of K90 million was disbursed to the district in December, 2009, specifically to fight cholera. In addition, the Lusaka Provincial Health Office was funded K200 million for cholera prevention activities and that also includes that of the Lusaka DHMT. The ministry has also released the grants for the month of January.

Mr Speaker, the ministry is not aware of any health personnel who are attending to cholera patients without protective clothing because it procured and distributed protective clothing such as gloves, gumboots, water proof aprons and others to all health workers in areas where there is a cholera outbreak. So far, no health worker has been reported to have contracted cholera as a result of not having this protective clothing.

Mr Speaker, apart from providing protective clothing that I have mentioned in the second part of the question, the ministry has also intensified health education and orientation of personnel who are attending to cholera patients on preventive measures. In addition, the cholera treatment centres are undergoing continuous disinfection as a way of reducing the risks of health personnel contracting the disease.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, prior to my raising this question, I had done a tour of some clinics in Lusaka and what was obtaining was that the nurses were working without protective clothes. At least, once in a while let us accept where we are not sure.

Mr Speaker, if grants for December and January have been given to DHMTs, why is it that cholera patients at Kanyama, Chawama, Matero and Chipata Compound clinics, that I visited recently, have no food?

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, in as much as the hon. Member thinks that we are not telling the truth, I think it is factual that the protective clothes she is mentioning were procured well before she actually visited the clinics mentioned. These clothes were distributed in areas where we have cholera outbreaks such as the Copperbelt and Southern provinces. At the moment, we have excess protective clothing at Medical Stores. Probably, there was just a small lapse in that these clinics had not yet ordered this equipment at the time of her visit. Otherwise, we have adequate gear to take care of any number of patients that may contract cholera.

As regards food grants, I think, it is on record that January grants have been released to all DHMTs, including those in Lusaka. If the personnel at the said clinics told her that there was no food, it is something that we need to investigate and establish why it is so. As far as the Government is concerned, it is very sure that money was released and there is a need to have food. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the problem of cholera is very simple and its real cause, annually, are floods? Where does he think the long term solution to eradicate the year in and year out reoccurrence of cholera lies?

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I am thankful for that question. It is obvious that cholera only strikes in certain areas. We have never encountered a case of cholera in villages, but in areas like Kanyama and now at the mine in Sinazongwe and at some fishing camps. These are the only areas often affected by cholera outbreaks and the reason behind this is well-known − poor hygiene. Now, in villages, where most of us come from, hygiene standards are very good. Everything is very well taken care of and as such people in villages do not suffer from cholera. Therefore, the problem of cholera has to do with hygiene or the disposal of faecal matter in particular.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, my question is more or less like the previous one. The hon. Minister has failed to answer the question, which is: When will the Government find a permanent solution to the perennial outbreaks of cholera in this country as they no longer occur in other countries? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, maybe, the hon. Member for Ndola Central does not understand science.

Interruptions

Mr Simbao: He seems to phrase his question in manner that is bias towards the answer he seems to want. It has been very clearly explained that improper disposal of faecal matter or faeces anywhere results into a problem. Anywhere in the world where people suffer from cholera, including India, is because of inappropriate disposal of faeces. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member knows very well that in areas like Lusaka, the council has tried hard to make landlords build toilets on their properties, but they do not want to do so. We are now, actually, building toilets for people that are making money on their properties. We have built 200 toilets, this year, so that what happened last year does not reoccur. The building of toilets is not the responsibility of the Government, but that of land owners who are actually collecting rent. 

In Kanyama, there are situations whereby ten families live on a property that has no toilets and one wonders what they use. However, the hon. Member for Ndola does not want to investigate why there is cholera and instead prefers to stand in this House and ask why there is no permanent solution.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister indicate to this House how much money is given as monthly grants to urban clinics in Lusaka.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, money is given to the district administration which then distributes to the clinics. I would not be in a position to know how much is given to clinics.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, in his initial response, the hon. Minister talked of a stakeholders’ meeting that is held, every week, to try and address the problem of cholera. May I know the direct representatives of the affected communities in the committee of stakeholders?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. I do not have a list here and can only mention the closest which are the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, Lusaka City Council (LCC), the district commissioner and Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company. However, we have over thirty individuals as partners, including non-governmental organisations (NGOs), on this committee.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is absolutely right in saying that poor disposal of faecal matter can cause cholera. However, what is the Government, which is responsible …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Milupi: … for setting standards in terms of constructing disposal facilities, doing to ensure that there is proper drainage in our townships and other places? What is it going to do to ensure that this problem is banished once and for all?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, there are two organisations responsible for this. For example, here in Lusaka, there is the council and Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company. Both of these organisations come to our stakeholders’ meeting and we have asked the council to, once again, call a meeting for all landlords in Lusaka and those that have not built toilets to do so. The Government has, this year, decided to build toilets in areas where we put portable or mobile toilets during the rainy season because that is where there were a lot of cholera cases. 

The council should ensure that all plots are serviced when allocating land. This is an issue to be looked into by the planning department of a given area. This is not even the problem of the Ministry of Health per se and we are only involved because cholera is a disease. However, it is a hygiene issue which is supposed to be handled by the councils.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I welcome you back. I would like to find out whether there is any mechanism of monitoring the so-called hygiene. Concerning hygiene, I have in mind an effluent from Lusaka which is drained into the Chunga and Mwembeshi streams in my constituency, thereby introducing faecal matter there. This is very unhygienic. Is there any monitoring mechanism which will ensure that people along the Chunga and Mwembeshi streams do not suffer from cholera as is the case year in and year out?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, almost all sources of water that people use in Lusaka, including their outlets are sampled almost every week. It is true that some sources of water that people use in Lusaka are contaminated, especially the underground sources. People have been warned against the use of this water, but they have continued using it, giving excuses that they are not using it for cooking or drinking, but for washing clothes and other cleaning activities. A record of all contaminated sources of water is available. Therefore, if the stream the hon. Member has refered is, indeed, contaminated, it has been noted and I am sure that that information has been passed on to the users.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is right that cholera is a hygiene issue. However, it is very clear that cases of cholera are highest during the rainy season, meaning that there is a direct relationship between the disposal of faecal matter and the drainage systems of any city. 

In view of the fact that there is a Multi-stakeholder Committee, involving the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the LCC, I wonder whether the hon. Minister has consulted with his colleague in the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to find out why money that was allocated by this Parliament for upgrading of shanty compounds to improve the disposal of faecal matter and sanitation of those areas has not been utilised to date, thereby exposing people to cholera. Has he found out, and if he has, what has been the response because this House appropriated money beyond K20 billion for that specific purpose in 2007 and 2008. Would he please, explain?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I have no information on the years 2007 and 2008 that the hon. Member has refered to, but we have been told that the money which was allocated, last year, is now being used to clear the drainages in Kanyama and other areas.

I thank you, Sir.

THE ZAMBIA NATIONAL SERVICE MISSION STATEMENT

293. Colonel Chanda (Kanyama) asked the Minister of Defence:

(a)    what the original mission statement for the Zambia National Service (ZNS) under the Zambia National Service Act was; and

(b)    whether in its current form and status, the service operated within the original framework as envisaged by the founding fathers.

The Deputy Minister of Defence (Mr Mulyata): Mr Speaker, the original ZNS mission statement, according to the Zambia National Service Act, Cap. 121 of the Laws of Zambia is as follows:

“The Service exists to train citizens to serve the Republic and the employment of its members in tasks of national importance and otherwise, in the service and defence of the Republic.”

In its current form and status, the ZNS operates within the original framework as envisaged by the founding fathers. However, due to a policy shift in the development of the service, the establishment has seen a need to reorganise its structures. To this effect, it has come up with a Proposed Zambia National Service Establishment 2009 Document.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to further find out why the current ZNS is failing to perform one of the original cardinal duties of feeding the nation by opening up the countryside. Why is it failing to carry out that particular role for which I am aware it was established?

The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member that the ZNS is not failing in its mandate to feed the country. As we are talking today, the ZNS has large active farms, for instance, the Mumbwa farm that we visited last week. In Mumbwa, we are expecting to harvest about 22,500 X 50 kilogram bags of maize. The airport as well as Chipata farms are also very active. We are able to produce food and invest by procuring needed equipment like tractors for the airport, Mumbwa and Chisamba farms. 

Mr Speaker, as we are talking, the ZNS Cantonment in the Eastern Province is feeding the Army Barracks, its sister cantonment, with beef it produces.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that the ZNS performs functions such as guarding our borders and conducting some operations in operational areas, what is this ministry intending to do in the light of the fact that the Defence Act does not include the ZNS in its definition of the ‘Defence Force’?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, certainly, the Defence Force Act does not include the ZNS. The ZNS comes under the Zambia National Service Act, Cap. 121 of the Laws of Zambia. However, I want to say that the mandate of the ZNS is extremely wide. In Section (4) of the Act, it is stated that:

“The President shall determine the operational use of the service in peace-keeping during peace times as well as during times of conflict.”

We know that during peace times, the ZNS is deployed in various activities, including unblocking the drainages in urban areas as well as training our young men in survival skills. Therefore, it is a very useful institution and we want to keep that mandate. All we want to do now is look at manpower levels and increase them, but keep within the mandate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Sir, why has the ZNS not been very proactive in trying to assist the nation resolve the problems of the road network in the country?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the ZNS has not failed in that role. It is very active in road, dam as well as borehole construction. Before we adjourned sine die, last year, I made a statement to the effect that hon. Members of Parliament must take interest in the work of the ZNS and liaise with their local commandants to ensure that some of the activities of a public nature are undertaken by the ZNS. We still stand by that statement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Sir, the ZNS had farms that it allocated to civilians. I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are any plans to find more land for the ZNS to replace those farms like the Chisamba Ranch and Rural Reconstruction in Kabuyu so that it engages in more production.

Dr Mwansa: Sir, certainly, plans are underway to expand on production levels. The Government intends to acquire new farms in areas where it does not have any and expand on the existing facilities where it has them. Therefore, that is under consideration.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Sir, may I know whether there is any plan to reintroduce Youth Service for school leavers which was disturbed by an outbreak of typhoid in the early 1980s. 

Dr Mwansa: Sir, that is a very good proposal. We need to, first of all, consider why the first attempt failed. If we can find an answer to that, it is a very good idea for our people, especially school leavers to learn survival skills and the need for patriotism since they need to defend their country. It is something that we should consider and I thank Hon. Kambwili for that suggestion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, as a follow-up question raised by the hon. Member for Katombola, can I find out from the hon. Minister the rationale for giving away a large part of the Airport Farm to the Chinese for them to establish a sub-Multi-Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ)? Secondly, will those investors compensate the ZNS for the work it did on that piece of land which is now to be designated an MFEZ?

Dr Mwansa: Sir, I am not aware that we have given part of our farm to any investor. I do not think that the land that has been given is part of our farm.

Mr Lubinda: It is.

Dr Mwansa: No, it is not part of our farm.

Mr Lubinda: It is.

Dr Mwansa: No. I insist that it is not.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, when will the Government replace those earth-moving machines which were bought from China for the ZNS since most of them are no longer working? 

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the procurement and replacement of equipment is an ongoing exercise. Plans are underway to acquire more equipment, if funds are available, so that we can become more efficient.

I thank you, Sir.

IMPLEMENTATION OF MARKET AND BUS STATIONS ACT

294. Mr Malama asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    when the Government would implement the Markets and Bus Stations Act; and

(b)    what had caused the delay in the implementation of the Act.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Muchima): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the august House that the Government is implementing the Markets and Bus Stations Act No. 7 of 2007. This started with the issuance by my ministry of Statutory Instrument No. 40 of 2007 on the implementation of the Act as well as establishment of management boards to manage the markets and bus stations in the country. In addition, my ministry has issued directives to all councils in Zambia to submit names and curriculum vitas (CVs) of the people who are to be appointed in the management boards for the ministry’s consideration and appointment.

Mr Speaker, the commencement of the implementation of the Act was triggered by the Statutory Instrument No. 40 of 18th October, 2007. However, the appointment of management boards was delayed in order to give a chance to all the local authorities to assess each market and conduct elections for relevant nominees to the management boards. Currently, Lusaka and Kitwe have submitted recommendations for the markets and bus stations which my ministry is considering.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Malama: Sir, can the hon. Minister confirm that, actually, the delay is as a result of the Government wanting to protect Zambia National Marketers Association (ZANAMA)? Can he confirm that whether that is the reason they are delaying to work on this Act?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I wish to categorically state that the delay is not what he has indicated, but what has been indicated in the reply. We needed to produce the guidelines. In the first place, the hon. Minister had to produce a statutory instrument to give effect to the implementation of the Act. The second step was to ensure that the guidelines on these management boards were developed. The third level is to indicate the nominees to the hon. Minister, in accordance with the Markets and Bus Stations Act No. 7 of 2007.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has, now, decided to rescind the directive that was given by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia to the effect that ZANAMA shall take over the management and ownership of the Chisokone Market in Kitwe contrary to the Markets and Bus Stations Act which states that all markets in this country are owned by local authorities? Are they rescinding that decision?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, as far as we are concerned, the directive that was given was done in consultation, but I want to make it very clear that it is and will still be within the Markets and Bus Stations Act that was passed by this House. It will be within that framework.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister quote the exact section of the Act which will compel it to be within the confines of the Act as regards the instruction of the President because the Act is clear that the markets shall be owned and run by the councils. May he quote the specific section?

Dr Kazonga: I wish the hon. Member for Roan went further to state that markets can also be run as a partnership with the private sector. So, it is possible that the markets can still take into consideration the private sector through a partnership arrangement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister clarify whether entering into a private-public partnership (PPP) to run markets includes the private partner having the power to issue title deeds and give plots to people. Is that part of the PPP arrangement that he is referring to and which law provides for that?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the Act is very clear. The local authority can go into a partnership, but that does not mean that the partner will be second grade. What will happen is that the local authority will still have its mandate, but can go into that partnership. The partnership is provided for in the Act and through that partnership, the markets can be run, but, of course, with the approval of the hon. Minister. These provisions are in the Act. If you would like to confirm that, you can read the Markets and Bus Stations Act in which that provision is.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the Government has not prosecuted the ZANAMA for issuing title deeds at Chisokone Market and collecting about K400 million revenue per month while the council collects K100 million.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, we are not aware that ZANAMA has given title deeds to anybody. If that has happened, please, bring it to our attention and we shall look into it. However, our records are very clear about this issue. There are no records showing that ZANAMA has given title deeds to any organisation or individual. The Act provides for what stakeholders should do in the markets. ZANAMA is part of the stakeholders in the markets. Therefore, the Act has taken consideration of stakeholders in the markets.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, if the Government is not protecting ZANAMA, will the hon. Minister indicate the timeframe for the Act to be fully implemented since it was enacted three years ago, in 2007.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, as stated by the hon. Deputy Minister, we are implementing the Markets and Bus Stations Act in stages. We have categorised the stages that we have gone through and what is yet to be done. This Government is committed to the implementation of the Act and it is keenly looking forward to seeing its implementation in full. If there will be any problems, there will be a period when we can look at these issues but, for now, our concern is that we are geared towards the implementation of the Act.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, at what stage will the ministry implement the allocation of market stalls to Zambians, especially at the Lusaka Town Centre Market where all the big shops have been allocated to non-Zambians contrary to the provision of the law.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, our Zambian colleagues who have been given the shops sublet them to foreigners. If you check on the list, you will discover that all the shops are owned by Zambians, but they sublet them to foreigners. Therefore, if you just make a conclusion by looking at the people trading in those shops, you will be deceived into thinking that all the shops have been allocated to foreigners. The shops have been allocated to Zambians who have entered into agreements with foreigners to sublet the shops.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, is on record as having given a directive that a title deed be given to ZANAMA. If the hon. Minister is going to implement what the President said, can he confirm that he is going to follow that directive and give title deeds to other markets contrary to which will be breach of law?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I wish to make it clear that the President’s directive will be implemented within the confines of the Markets and Bus Stations Act.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, as a rider to the question that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chasefu, can the hon. Minister shed some light on the lack of political will by the ministry in implementing the Markets and Bus Stations Act because we are having problems in allocating stalls and opening the Lusaka City Market?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I would like to disagree with the hon. Member for Kanyama for indicating to this House that there is a lack of political will from the Government. However, I would like to state that the Government’s political will can be confirmed through the fact that it initiated the Act to ensure that there was order and sanity in the markets. 

Secondly, in the process of implementing the Act, the Government has stipulated what has been done so far and what is yet to be done. That shows that the Government is committed to implementing the Markets and Bus Stations Act.

With regard to the issue of opening the Lusaka City Market, we are all geared to opening the market, but, as I indicated earlier, we would like to form boards. We would like to receive nominations from the councils and we have clearly stated that Kitwe and Lusaka have submitted nominations. That is progress. I am wondering whether that statement is really in conformity with what is happening on the ground. As far as I am concerned, it looks to be at variance with the realities on the ground. I would like to confirm that the Government is committed to implementing this Act.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, there are market associations other than ZANAMA. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how the PPP − the council and the private sector, which is ourselves − will be handled in the markets when the Government has categorically shown that it prefers ZANAMA to other associations?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the Government recognises various stakeholders in the Markets and Bus Stations Act. One of the various stakeholders is the local authority whose role has adequately been addressed in the Act. At the same time, we recognise that there are various associations or stakeholders in the markets that need to be taken on board, particularly on the composition of the board, and that has been taken care of. Therefore, it is not just for one association, but for various stakeholders as indicated in the composition of the board members to run markets and bus stations.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, obviously, if title was given to ZANAMA, it would be the owner of the land and it would then have to subdivide and give plots to individuals. Once this is done, is there a special plan that the Government will give, through its local authorities, so that there is proper planning and we do not have situations like the ones we have, at the moment, where there is no proper water and sanitation and ultimately, we have the cholera breakouts? We also have the causal effects that the hon. Minister of Health pointed out because the Government seems not be working in one accord. At the moment, we have ministries working in isolation from the other ministries and the result is the cholera breakouts. Is there a special design that the Government has given, through the local authorities, to these particular markets whose title of land is going to be given to ZANAMA?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, there are basic standards for markets. One of the basic standards is water supply and sanitation facilities. We need to acknowledge that all of us, actually, buy our foodstuffs from these markets and we want to protect ourselves from disease. That is why for all the new markets, we are seriously taking into consideration the water supply situation and the sanitation facilities so that the food is bought or sold in a very clean environment. We shall do our best so that the markets have the minimum standards met.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, what action will the Government take against Zambians who have been offered market stalls and have given them to non-Zambians?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, we shall need to look at the lease agreements that are in place and then take administrative action based on what they are doing, particularly after comparing with agreements that are signed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the problem which the hon. Minister has confirmed of Zambians subleasing market stalls to foreigners is at direct loggerheads with the report that was given by your Committee.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Ask the question, if you have any.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the report that was given by your delegated Legislation Committee revealed that 90 per cent of the stalls in the peripheries of Kamwala Market had direct leases between the developer and foreign nationals. Is that not at loggerheads with what the hon. Minister had said not so long ago?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we are not just considering Kamwala Market, which could have those statistics. We are looking at other markets. That is why we had the statement made that, generally speaking, some Zambians sublet to the foreigners. Therefore, what we are going to do, as I have already indicated, is to look at lease agreements and action can be taken at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his statement, gave praises to ZANAMA. However, is the ministry very happy with the killing of people by ZANAMA in Kitwe? How many more people are going to die after ZANAMA has been leeway to run the markets? 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, this Government follows laws.

Hon. Opposition Members interrupted.

Dr Kazonga: This Government follows laws. Definitely, it does not entertain what has been alleged. It is there to protect lives.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Dr Kazonga: Therefore, I find that statement to be at variance with what this Government is doing. If it is true that this incident took place, appropriate action will be taken by the relevant organs of the Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

DEVELOPMENT OF ROADS, EDUCATION AND HEALTH SECTORS IN MFUWE

295. Mr Malama asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice when the Government would develop the following sectors in Chief Nabwalya’s area in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)    roads;
(ii)    education; and
(iii)    health.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Sichilima): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is desirous of improving the road network in Chief Nabwalya’s area despite the challenges posed by the difficult terrain of the area.

Sir, to this effect, in 2006, for instance, a contract was awarded to Messrs Supreme Construction Limited for the improvement of the Mpika/Nabwalya Road.

However, the Government remains committed to sourcing for sufficient funds to facilitate the rehabilitation of the road to the required standard.

Sir, in the education sector, the Government, in 2009, carried out the following projects in Mfuwe Constituency:

Kapwanya Basic

Constructed 1 x 3 classroom block

Constructed one teacher house

Constructed one VIP toilet

Kakoko Basic (New Site)

Constructed 1 x 3 classroom block

In 2008, the following projects were carried out:

Muchelenje Basic

Constructed two teachers’ houses

Salamo Basic

Rehabilitated 1 x 2 and 1 x 3 classroom block

Kalonje Basic

Constructed two (1 x 3) classroom block

Katibunga Basic School

Constructed 1 x 3 classroom block

Chipungu Basic School

Constructed two teachers’ houses

Kazembe Basic School

Rehabilitated one teacher’s house.

Mr Speaker, the district has distributed 457 desks in Mfuwe. 

Sir, in the health sector, the Government has put up Nabwalya Rural Health Centre and is currently constructing Chaya Rural Health Centre, where the works are progressing very well. These two facilities will be enough, for now, to provide adequate health care for the people in Chief Nabwalya’s area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, what urgency has the Government attached to these problems, especially in education and road infrastructure where every rainy season, some chiefdoms are completely cut off from the rest of the district. For example, at the moment, I cannot go into Chief Nabwalya’s area.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, in our response, we indicated the number of projects taking place in this area, for instance, in the educational sector. This shows the urgency with which we are responding to the needs of the people in the area. 

Mr Speaker, even though there is a contractor who has been given one road to work on, we need to work on most of the roads in this area. You may be aware that the Government procured some heavy equipment for the Northern Province. Part of this equipment, at a budget of K5billion, was to be used on feeder roads. I wish to advise the hon. Member to take advantage of this equipment and liaise with the provincial administration to ensure that this equipment reaches his constituency. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX EXEMPTION OF LUANSHYA COPPER MINES

296. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a)    why Luanshya Copper Mines Plc was exempted from paying Property Transfer Tax under Statutory Instrument No.69 of 2009; and

(b)    what the revenue loss as a result of the action at (a) was.
    

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, the sale of Luanshya Copper Mines Plc (LCM) involved the sale of 85 per cent shares owned by ENYA Holdings BV. In December, 2008, ENYA Holdings BV placed LCM under care and maintenance because of the falling commodity prices on the international market, which affected the profitability of the company. As a result, contracts of over 1,700 employees and contracts with over seventy contractors were terminated. 

Mr Speaker, in January, 2009, ENYA Holdings BV announced its decision to sale 85 per cent of its shares in the LCM and indicated that it had no immediate plans to restart mining operations. At this time, ENYA Holdings BV owed over US$20 million to third party creditors, including the ZRA, contractors, Copperbelt Energy Consortium and US$81.8 million in shareholder loans. 

Mr Speaker, some of the plans that the company had put in place to settle third party creditors  were to sale all movable and non-core assets at the LCM, which were valued at US$30 million. The Government did not agree with this plan because it was going to be very difficult for the new investor to start mining operations as soon as desired by the Government because some of the assets would take time to procure and deliver. 

Mr Speaker, it was against this background that the Government decided to provide an exemption from Property Transfer Tax (PTT) to enable ENYA Holdings BV have enough funds to clear all third party creditors, most of whom were Zambians. The decision to exempt ENYA Holdings BV from PTT was also intended to prevent the possible placement of the LCM under liquidation, had the company failed to pay off its creditors. This action safeguarded the welfare of the LCM employees and the local community. 

Mr Speaker, with regard to the revenue loss as a result of this action, I wish to state that PTT is chargeable at the rate of 3 per cent of the total consideration for the sale or transfer of shares or property. Therefore, the amount of money foregone as a result of the exemption of ENYA Holdings BV from PTT was US$1.35 million. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, when will this Government stop the habit of giving unnecessary tax exemptions to foreign investors? 

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, I beg to differ with the hon. Member for terming this action as unnecessary. This action was taken after due consideration of the cost benefit of giving this concession or allowing the closure of mines, which would have resulted in the undue closure of the mine for a long time and thus negatively impacting the economic activity of Luanshya in terms of jobs, suppliers, which I am sure the hon. Members is fully aware of … 

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: …and other social costs like the running of schools and health services. It was, therefore, definitely a necessary concession. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, one of the reasons given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance ad National Planning for exempting the LCM from paying the PTT is that it had to pay off creditors. I am, however, aware of certain companies that have not yet been paid. Would the hon. Minister state or confirm whether all the creditors were paid?

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member will appreciate that the pressing issue of not paying creditors at the time would have resulted in liquidation of the mining company, whose implications would have been much worse than just the non-payment of creditors. The main issue for the Government was to still have an ongoing activity in this area so that it could contain the situation, safeguard jobs and creditors and this is what happened. This is an ongoing concern. Creditors will come and get paid and business will continue. I am sure that this action took a long term view rather than a myopic decision, which would have impacted very negatively on the people of Luanshya.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, during the negotiating process, the Government gave a concession of US$9 million to the buyers of the LCM. I would like to find out why the Government could not have laid the US$9 million in abeyance pending better prices for copper. As you may be aware, copper prices are ranging between US$6,000 and US$7,000 and investors are now enjoying the benefit of these good prices. Why did the Government not take due diligence which could have saved one or two hospitals because US$9 million is a good sum of money?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Daka) on behalf of  The Minister of Finance and National Planning ( Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member will understand that even the Government of the United States of America (USA) put in place a stimulus package to stimulate the industry. The LCM was dead and it was being offered back to the Government at K1. Today, we have saved 1,700 jobs and paid off all creditors. This action was, therefore, in good faith. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister responded that Roan Antelope Mining Corporation of Zambia (RAMCOZ) paid off all creditors. Can he confirm to this House whether the Government has paid the K22 billion not paid off by RAMCOZ for Mukuba Pension Fund members. 

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, Mukuba Pension Fund, which still exists, is not a creditor, but a  pension fund which is an ongoing concern. We will find out more about what the hon. Member is asking. His question is specifically for Mukuba Pension members. We are answering the question concerning ENYA Holdings BV and the Government. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, I wish to find out what the Government’s policy is on preservation and sustenance of public companies. This is because it seems to be much more concerned about private entities than its own companies. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning once said, on the Floor of this House, that the Government could not support the Zambia State Insurance Corporation (ZISC) as far as its policies were concerned because it wanted ZISC to be strong enough to stand on its own two feet. The Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) is another case. Now, there is this private entity which has to be preserved, sustained and its jobs retained. What about the public entity that belongs to the Zambians? What are the incentives and policies?

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member who asked that question.

Sir, if we look at the cost benefit, US$1.3 million was forgone and US$9 million which we have talked about will only have the tax element kicking in after reaching the US$10 million threshold. We have created more jobs. ZSIC has not been neglected. If you looked at the balance sheet of ZSIC, today, you would find that it has Government support. It has even invested in ZAMBEEF which is in the private sector. This means that it is doing well.

 I thank you, Mr Speker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

SOLAR INSTALLATION REPAIRMENTS AT HEALTH CENTRES IN MWINILUNGA

297. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Health when the Government would embark on a repair exercise of all solar installations in the following rural health centres in Mwinilunga District:

(i)    kamapanda;

(ii)    chiwoma;

(iii)    kapundu; and

(iv)    Kakoma.

Dr Musonda: Mr Speaker, the solar installations in the following rural health centres in Mwinilunga District have been assessed and repair works to replace the defective components have commenced.

For Kamapanda, the battery installations were tempered with and have since been worked on. As a result, the solar panel is functioning. As for Chiwoma, the solar panel is in place and there is a need to replace the two batteries (12 bolts each) as their five year life span is over. This is the same for Kapundu and Kakoma. The installations are intact. All we need to do is replace the batteries

Mr Spekaer, all the above works are expected to be completed by April, 2010.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

HOMICIDE CASES IN MWINILUNGA FROM 2006 TO 2009

298. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    how many homicide cases were reported to police and prosecuted before the courts of law in Mwinilunga District from 2006 to 2009, year by year; and

(b)    of the cases above, how many resulted into;

(i)    convictions;

(ii)    acquittals; and

(iii)    nolle prosequi.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr D. Phiri): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the number of homicide cases reported to the police and prosecuted in Mwinilunga District from 2006 to 2009 were twenty-eight broken down as follows:

    Year        Reported and
Prosecuted

2006    6

2007    5

2008    10

2009    7

Total        28

Year        Number of Convictions

2006    4

2007    2

2008    Nil

2009    1

Total        7

Year        Number of Acquittals

2006    Nil

2007    Nil

2008    Nil

2009    Nil

Year        Number of Nolle Prosequi

2006    1

2007    2

2008    4

2009    Nil

Total        7

Mr Speaker, I further wish to state that fourteen cases are under trial.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ELECTRIFICATION OF KANSHIMBA BASIC SCHOOL AND MWENDA FISHING CAMP

299. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a)    when the following areas in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency would be electrified:

(i)    Kanshimba Basic School; and

(ii)    Mwenda Fishing Camp;

(b)    what caused the delay in the electrification of the places above; and

(c)    how much money would be spent on the electrification of Mwenda Fishing Camp.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Imasiku): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the project is being carried out by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Limited. The hon. Member of Parliament will be happy to learn that the power line to the School has been constructed and the transformer has already been installed. Looking at the progress made, so far, and the assurance from the officers implementing the project, the school will be connected by the 31st March, 2010.

Mr Speaker, the electrification of Mwenda Fishing Camp is also being worked on by ZESCO Limited and the hon. Member of Parliament will, again, be happy to know that construction materials have already been mobilised and work has already started and is scheduled to be completed by 31st March, 2010.

Mr Speaker, the delay in the implementation of the two projects was caused by the difficulties in the mobilisation of construction materials. There have been instances where the main materials have been completely out of stock from the local suppliers forcing ZESCO to secure them form outside the country. When work was completed at Kanshimba, other problems occurred on one of the transformers causing some delays.

Mr Speaker, the electrification of Mwenda Fishing Camp is estimated to cost a total of K39,403,441.64.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, my concern is on the installation of the transformer. The transformer was taken to the site nine months ago, but, to-date, it has not been installed. If the hon. Minister is saying that it has been installed, when was it installed.

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for that question. 

Sir, the installation of the transformer was done recently. What we are just waiting for is to connect it to the buildings. In short, we have already put the transformer.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

 Hon. Opposition Members: When?

ZAMBEZI OIL TRADING COMPANY

300. Dr Machungwa (Luapula) asked the Minister of Energy and water Development:

(a)    whether the Zambezi Oil Trading Company (ZOT) in Ndola paid for the laying and burying of cable underground as one of the conditions of the construction of a petroleum depot and fuel tank close to a highway and almost beneath the ZESCO high-voltage transmission lines; and

(b)    whether the measures agreed upon by ZESCO, the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ) and the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) have been implemented and, if not, why.

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, ZOT paid ZESCO Limited for the underground laying and burying of cables as part of the conditions for the construction of a petroleum depot and fuel tanks close to the highway and the ZESCO high voltage lines. The works involved converting part of the 33 Kilovolt overhead line into an underground cable.

The measure which involved the conversion of 100 metres of overhead lines to an underground cable was implemented as agreed upon by ZESCO, the ECZ and ERB.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that ZOT is being liquidated and, in fact, is under receivership? If this is so, does the hon. Minister not agree that this was a dubious company and had they listened to what the Committee of Parliament and the House had recommended at the time, we would not have been experiencing this problem of allowing this dubious company to set up shop and then disappear?

Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, the company was the right company to the do work.

Mr Lubinda: Aah!

Mr Imasiku: Sir, the liquidation of the company has got nothing to do with the payment of the amount he asked. Therefore, those are other issues that he can bring up later.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

LIFTING OF LIVESTOCK BAN AND CONSTRUCTION OF ABATTOIR AND CORDON LINE IN KATOMBOLA

301. Mrs Musokotwane asked the Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development:

(a)    when the ban on livestock movement in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency would be lifted;

(b)    whether there were any plans to build an abattoir in Mwandi Parliamentary Constituency;

(c)    when construction of the cordon line in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency would be completed; and 

(d)    what measures had been taken to ensure that the line was not vandalised.

The Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, there is a ban restricting the movement of cattle from Kazungula District in which Katombola Parliamentary Constituency is located to the rest of the Southern Province due to the presence of Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia (CBPP). The ban has been necessitated by the need to prevent the spread of the disease and will only be lifted once the disease has been contained or eradicated.

Construction of abattoirs is the responsibility of the private sector. The private sector should, therefore, be encouraged to construct an abattoir in Mwandi Parliamentary Constituency in order to provide for the business opportunities that are there.

Sir, the construction of the cordon line in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency has been put on hold. The Government wants to initially put up a disease control check point at Kasaya and a quarantine station before continuing with the cordon line.

The Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development has requested for the employment of additional cordon guards in order to ensure that the cordon line is not vandalised once it has been put up.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, why should Kazungula, District which is in Katombola Constituency, not be declared an animal disease-free zone because that is where the problem is instead of declaring areas which have fewer cattle since we have a lot of cattle there?

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, the prevalence of disease in the area has been reduced from about 16 per cent in 2006 down to 1 per cent at the last testing in December, 2009. This reduction has been achieved through various implementations of disease control measures. It has further been noted there has been a significant reduction and, therefore, the continued implementation of disease control measures shall continue until we eradicate the disease.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, is there no other method that this Government can use other than slapping a ban whenever there is an outbreak of a disease?

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, we would welcome any progressive suggestions that the hon. Member may have other than those which we are already implementing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, cordon lines definitely prevent the contact of diseased animals with those that are not. I would like to find out what measures this Government will put in place to eradicate the CBPP.

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, there are already measures in place to deal with the diseases as has already been stated.

With regards to the cordon line, Sir, there were issues in the past where those who had livestock on the wrong side of the cordon line were disadvantaged in terms of the marketing. As a result, there was propensity to vandalise or pull down the cordon line.

In addition, we have been liaising with our counterparts on the other side of the border to similarly undertake exercises such as we have in terms of vaccination and we believe that in due course we shall achieve the desired results in this respect.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister in his answer mentioned that the construction of a cordon line had been put on hold and that he has realised that it is stopping the people on the wrong side of the line in marketing. Why is it that the Government spent so much money on constructing a cordon line that goes to Muyungu, but later realise that it is useless, according to his explanation?

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, it was prudent to consider other interventions in order to address these particular challenges. At certain locations, it is a believed fact that we can undertake extensive vaccinations that would have an immediate impact and also reduce diseases. Therefore, we shall continue with the various interventions we are undertaking. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the animal ban in Kazungula, which also includes areas in Namwala, Itezhi-tezhi and Mumbwa has been there for more than two years now. People have made all efforts to try to treat their cattle and, therefore, leaving Zambeef as the only advantaged company dealing in beef. When will the Government make an assessment so that animals can start moving in order to improve the people’s lives through the sale of their cattle to the urban areas?

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, the Government is very conscious and aware of the disadvantages that are being faced in these particular areas where there are bans in terms of the impact it has on the capacity to undertake marketing. The exercise, in terms of eradication of disease, is an exercise that cannot be achieved or accomplished overnight. We shall continue to work towards realising the eradication of these diseases which, in turn, will enable those people in particular areas to get a fair value at the market for their livestock.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, in his response to a question posed earlier, the hon. Minister indicated that the disease prevalence in Kazungula had been reduced to 1 per cent. In the event that the disease is eradicated to 0 per cent, will the Government declare Kazungula a disease-free zone to enable the people there export meat to foreign countries?

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, indeed, we will declare it a disease-free zone at that particular point to allow the movement of animals out of that area. As regards to whether or not it will then be cleared to export beef, that will require other interventions.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

SHOPRITE ZAMBIA OUTLETS AND EMPLOYEES AS OF DECEMBER, 2009

302. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a)    how many outlets Shoprite Zambia had opened as of 31st December, 2009 country-wide;

(b)    how many people were employed by Shoprite Zambia in the same period; and

(c)    how many people were employed as casual workers country-wide.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, there were a total of nineteen supermarket outlets and eight take away outlets in the name of Hungry Lion opened by Shoprite Zambia as of December, 2009. There were a total of 1,224 permanent employees on the payroll as of December, 2009.

Mr Speaker, there were a total of 1,090 casual workers in the same period. Shoprite Zambia management proposed to place these workers on two-year fixed term contracts with gratuity and the ministry has agreed to the proposal.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to know if the hon. Minister is aware that the numbers that he has given are not true because three quarters of the employees of Shoprite are casual labourers. These workers have worked for more than three years as casuals and, as such, I would like to know what he is doing to sort out this problem.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, my ministry is aware of the total number of casuals who are working for Shoprite and the number that I have given for the permanent employees working for this organisation is correct. I would like to take this opportunity to inform the House and the nation that we have been having meetings with the management from South Africa and that is how we have worked out these two year contracts for the casuals in the organisation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the collective agreement which was signed between the workers and the management from South Africa has been implemented and, if not, why this is so.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, the collective agreement was signed and that is why Shoprite South Africa has transferred K16 billion for the pensioners here under African Life Insurance.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell the House whether the opening of these outlets by Shoprite is tied to some preferential arrangements such as tax exemptions?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, this does not tie to any tax exemptions.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether it is normal for a worker to continue working as a casual employee for three years.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, it is not normal and this is why the Ministry of Labour and Social Security has stopped casualisation of labour throughout the country. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the Government is doing to ensure that the workers at Shoprite get a decent wage as opposed to the K72,000 per week.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, as a Government, we are in the process of holding what we call a Tripartite Consultative Council where we are reviewing the minimum wage and, by the end of this week, we will know the minimum wage in Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I would, first of all, like to commend the hon. Deputy Minister for the work they have done on Zambianisation at Shoprite. I would like to find out how far he has gone with the Zambianisation of positions at Shoprite which, since 1996, has been dominated by foreigners whilst Zambians are just used for immigration purposes.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that I am the Chairperson of the Zambianisation Committee.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, for Shoprite, we have taken it up by giving them a mandate. We will go there three months from now to review the final Zambianisation process because we had given them a time frame in which those understudying the expatriates must start working. We have six expatriates and by now we have Zambians who are trained to take over their jobs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when the two-year contracts will be effected.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, as of now, we have started assisting Shoprite management on how to effect the contracts because they did not have the management to tell them how to do it. This time, my ministry, through the Labour Commissioner, is working on it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when his ministry will start to punish people who casualise Zambian employees beyond going out to sensitise them all the time. When will the ministry penalise them in accordance with the law? 

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker that is a very important question. I want to inform the House that the Tripartite Consultative Council which is sitting is reviewing that and the penalty is stiff because there is an Article where there is imprisonment. As soon as we finish the tripartite meeting, the information will be availed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I will take advantage of the information given by the hon. Deputy Minister, who is also Chairperson of the Zambianisation Committee, to tell him to consider what he is doing at Shoprite, to Spar where we have seen a lot of Zimbabweans and South Africans being employed.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, the committee, under my Chairmanship, has been going to all the companies where we have been sensitising to see to it that there is no casualisation of labour and that Zambianisation is on the programme. We have been to Spar, Arcades, where there are Zimbabwean expatriates who have been put on course. I have not only been to visit the Zambianisation Committee at Spar, but we have been to various companies, including Tobwe.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Tombwe.

Laughter

ZAMBIANS WITH GEMSTONE LICENCES IN LUNDAZI

303. Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a)    how many Zambians held gemstone licences in Lundazi District;

(b)    how much the gemstone owners had contributed in taxes to the Treasury; and

(c)    what type of gemstones were mined in Lundazi District.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, a total of fifteen Zambians hold gemstone licences in Lundazi District.

Mr Speaker, out of the fifteen Zambians holding gemstone licences in Lundazi District, only three contributed a total of K36,820,070 in taxes to the Treasury from 2007 to 2009 broken down as follows:

Company        2007            2008                2009        Total
  name        Mineral    Company    Mineral         Company    Mineral    Company
        Royalty    Tax        Royalty         Tax        Royalty    Tax
        (K)    (K)        (K)         (K)        (K)    (K)
    
Abar        Nil    Nil        11,801,334  Nil        Nil    Nil    11,801,334    
International
Ltd

Nazmul        Nil    23,751,700    Nil          Nil        Nil    Nil    23,751,700    
Minning
Ltd

Doost        Nil    Nil        Nil         Nil        Nil    1,267,036  1,267,036    
Import &
Export

The types of gemstones mined in Lundazi District are aquamarine, garnet, amethyst, quartz tourmaline and citrine.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, …

Business was suspended from 1610 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, notwithstanding the fact that fifteen Zambians hold gemstone licenses in Lundazi District, is the hon. Minister aware that illegal gemstone mining is rampant in Lundazi District? If he is aware, what steps has he taken or intends to take to forestall this situation?

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speaker, we, as a ministry, are aware that there is illegal gemstone mining and as you may be aware, with gemstones, we are talking about low volume and high value minerals and thus rendering them susceptible to illegal activities. 

Mr Speaker, as regards steps that have been taken by the ministry, we commenced by establishing a mining bureau in Chipata which is supposed to be monitoring the activities in Lundazi.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, on the Copperbelt a gemstone exchange centre has been established among other measures to encourage a gemstone industry. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures have been put in place in Lundazi area and similarly with the Copperbelt to encourage these gemstone miners so that we give them ready market for their gemstones without any theft?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, indeed, a gemstone exchange centre is being established in Ndola and it is yet to be operationalised. As it is brought into operation, systems and mechanisms will be put in place to encourage our local gemstone producers to use that facility.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, realising that gemstone mining is rampant, I would like to find what measures the Government has put in place to ensure that it collects some revenue from these illegal miners?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, what should be understood is that with gemstones, we are talking about low volume and high value commodities and that makes it very difficult to monitor and that is why security seems to be quite illusive when it comes to this concern. However, this Government is doing its best by using security agencies to ensure that the systems people follow are in accordance with the local channels applied when dealing with gemstones.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, it was reported in one of the print media that a 6,000 caret emerald was found in Lufwanyama and was exported out of the country. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether the Government has benefited anything from the export of that precious stone.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister may give a bonus answer.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, what should be understood is that this Government has liberalised the marketing system of gemstones. I am sure that whenever auctions are held by a mining company, we benefit from taxes in terms of mineral royalty and corporate tax that they pay to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA).

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I did not get the hon. Minister’s answer to the question asked by the hon. Member for Nchanga. Is the ministry considering setting up a gemstone exchange centre in Lundazi specifically where gemstone will be polished and cut so that value is added to them before they are sold?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member that associations have been formed through which we hope that measures will be put in place to set up such a centre in Lundazi. As of now, the only gemstone exchange centre which has been established, though not functional, is the one in Ndola.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, taking into consideration the good answer given by my nephew, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, I want to find out whether the Government realises that if we add value to gemstones by polishing and cutting them, we will also greatly increase the revenue of this country such that we will do away with cries over windfall tax?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, desirous to set up a cutting and polishing industry within the country. However, what should be understood is that such an industry is very difficult particularly where there are high labour costs. Cutting and polishing industries exist in Jaipur, India, and the far eastern countries because of their low labour costs. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

COST OF CONSTRUCTING AUDITOR GENERAL’S PROVINCIAL OFFICES IN 2007 AND 2008

304. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning how much money was spent on the construction of each of the provincial offices of the Auditor General in 2007 and 2008.

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, the money spent on the construction of each of the provincial offices of the Auditor General in 2007 and 2008, provided by Public Expenditure Management Financial Accountability (PEMFA), is as follows:

Provincial Centre    2007    2008    Total

Solwezi    K906,705,431.00    K181,144,583.10    K1,087,850,014.10

Mongu    K1,063,426,266.96    K81,244,249.50    K1,144,670,516.46

Kasama    K99,863,580.82    K611,744,149.88    K1,611,607,730.70

Mansa    K714,237,192.00    K2,119,762,753.88    K2,833,999,945.88

Chipata    K416,106,693.03    K348,675,303.60    K764,781,996.63

Total    K4,100,339,163.81    K3,342,571,039.96    K7,442,910,203.77

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm whether all the offices in question are now operational and if so, the establishment at each of the offices.

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, that follow-up question is very specific and I wish he had included it in the main question so that we could answer him properly. However, I can say that all the offices are operational. They may have challenges in that they are not fully staffed, at the moment, and, therefore, have vacancies. I am sure the office of the Auditor General is working towards making sure that these offices are filled. For now, I can confirm that we have the presence of the Auditor General in all the nine provinces.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Sir, I notice that the cost of construction of these offices was varying and being as high as K2 billion in some places. May I know if the design was standard or different in the construction of these offices.

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, the design was almost the same and the variance in costs was due to distance and availability of materials from Lusaka to the point of construction.

I thank you. 

Mr Kambwili: Sir, may I know who audits the Auditor General.

Laughter

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, I think, statutorily, we know who audits the Auditor General through Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

FEMALE POST-GRADUATE BENEFICIARIES FROM SCHOLARSHIPS FOR RESEARCH SINCE 2009

305. Dr Chishya (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training: 

(a)    how many female post-graduate students had benefited from scholarships from the ministry for training of researchers since 2006; and

(b)    how many such students had graduated and were employed as research and development workers in the ministry and elsewhere.

Dr Chituwo remained seated.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is happening? Do we not have the hon. Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training in the House?

The Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, the bursary scheme for female post-graduate students was established in 2005. The objectives of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training, Science and Technology Bursary Scheme are as follows:

(a)    to provide financial support to female students to enable them access science and technology programmes;

(b)    to encourage female students take up male dominated courses; and

(c)    to promote critical skills for national development.

As at 2009, a total of eighteen female science and technology professional had benefited from the scholarships in the ministry.

Mr Speaker, a total of thirteen female students have graduated and five are still pursuing their studies and continue to benefit from the scholarships.

Of the thirteen graduates, one is employed at the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISR), which is under my ministry. The other twelve are employed in other ministries such as the Ministry of Health which has seven, while the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives has three, with the Ministry of Education having one and another one at the Ministry of Energy and Water Development. These students were employed in these institutions prior to the commencement of their studies and have since returned to their posts.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that some female graduate students are academically and technically intelligent and are able, through their family members, to meet the cost of post-graduate training while others are equally academically intelligent, but are unable to meet the cost of further training. In view of this, what criterion is the ministry using to identify the vulnerable ones?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the starting point is an advertisement or application for those who want to undertake post-graduate studies. It is from these applications, upon interviews that we determine who is able or unable to contribute to their post-graduate studies. In fact, in order to promote and encourage female scientists to catch up with their male counterparts, in the last two weeks or so, we have invited applications for scholarships for about thirty scholarships from female students. Therefore, it is at this level that we are able to identify such students and their ability to pursue post-graduate studies.

I thank you, Sir.

COBALT EXPORTS BY CHAMBESHI METAL COMPANY FROM 2007 TO 2009

306. Mr Mukanga asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a)    how much cobalt was exported by Zambia through the Chambeshi Metal Company from 2007 to 2009, year by year; and

(b)    how much revenue was raised by the company from the exports during the same period.

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, a total of 5,538 tonnes of cobalt was exported by Chambeshi Metals Plc from 2007 to 2009 broken down as follows:

Year            Quantity

2007    2,635

2008    2,617

2009    286

Total                5,538

Mr Speaker, a total of US$311,783,620 was raised from the exports of cobalt during the same period broken down as follows:

    Year                Value (US$)

2007    150,671,955

2008    149,434,799

2009    11,676,866

Total                311,783,620

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what led to the decline in production in 2009.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I am sure the hon. Member is aware that starting from the end of 2008, Chambeshi Metals was not operational due to the global financial crisis.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the Chinese at the LCM Plc are not using Chambeshi Metals to process their cobalt, but are instead exporting the concentrate.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, indeed, material produced from Luanshya Copper Mine was being treated at Chambeshi Metals Plc. As it is now, the company has been employed to engage both Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and LCM to see to it that they start treating the concentrates at Chambeshi Metals Plc. As a business arrangement, they have to agree and, as a Government, we are encouraging that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, cobalt is a by-product of copper ore. Would the hon. Minister confirm whether the cobalt exported after processing of copper ore is not declared and, therefore, the country is losing out on revenue?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should know that, currently, in Zambia, it is only the LCM which produces cobalt concentrates and only when part two becomes operational at Nchanga, will we have cobalt concentrates. The other mines are no longer producing cobalt concentrates.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister confirm that, up to this time, we are still the second highest producer of cobalt to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) in the world?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, we are very grateful that these days are days of www.com and the hon. Member can inform us.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

TERMINAL BENEFITS OF EX-MPELEMBE DRILLING COMPANY EMPLOYEES

307. Mr Mukanga asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security when the ex-Mpelembe Drilling Company employees who left the company through the following modes would be paid their terminal benefits:

(i)    retirement as of December, 2007; and

(ii)    medical discharge as of December, 2005.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, I wish to respond as follows:

(i)    it is difficult to determine when the ex-Mpelembe Drilling Company employees will be paid their terminal benefits because the company has been approached over this matter and has stated that it has no capacity to settle its liability to these ex-employees. However, we are still actively pursuing the matter with the management; and

(ii)    it is also difficult, again, to state when this category of employees will be paid because the company currently has no money, but we are frantically pursuing the matter to see how this can be resolved.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, from the answer that the hon. Minister has given, it has taken more than five years now and the people who went on medical discharge have not been paid their terminal benefits. I would like to find out why it is taking long for the Government to fix and discuss issues with the company so that these ex-employees can get their benefits on time?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, thank you for important follow-up question. We have been having meetings with Mpelembe Drilling Company Management for the past three to five months. The company has no capacity to pay because it has no money. In fact, the Government involved the employees and employer so that they could resolve the issue and then come up with a survival plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I am disappointed with the answer given by the hon. Minister because there are regulations in this country relating to companies that are unable to meet their costs. This means that when a company is unable to pay its employees, it should be put under receivership and this is the role of the Ministry of Labour and Social Services. Why is the Government engaging in discussions with Mpelembe Drilling Company instead of forcing it to go under receivership? That is the job of the Government. It should follow its own laws. Why is it not invoking that provision?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, this is a new question which is very good. I will answer the hon. Minister an answer later.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, the lesson to learn from this problem is that there is a need for some cushion for some of our employees in some of these companies. Is the ministry thinking of finding ways of engaging some insurance companies for the safeguard of our employees who work with this kind of company?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, the ministry, at the moment, has engaged the Mpelembe Drilling Company Management Board to see the way forward for the employees.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister if the Mpelembe Drilling Company Management is currently taking up contractual works on the mines.

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, I said, in my preamble, that Mpelembe Drilling Company currently has no money. The ministry, Mpelembe Drilling Company Management as well as the employees will sit down and try to find the way forward.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, if I remember well, about a day ago, a similar question about Mpelembe Drilling Company was asked. The House learnt that this company has not been paying full salaries to the workers for a long time and this has been tolerated. What is special about this company that the hon. Minister should appear not to be taking action?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, the answer is that this company has got no money.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, since these ex-Mpelembe Drilling Company employees have not received their terminal benefits for five years, is the Government thinking of giving them relief food?

Laughter

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, no.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, in the event of this company winding up, which is what the hon. Minister has suggested, will he confirm that these workers will only be paid K200.00?

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, for now, I cannot comment because we have not gone into liquidation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Sir, could the hon. Minister confirm that the Government is treating Mpelembe Drilling Company with kid gloves because Hon. Mutati is its board chairperson? 

Mr Kachimba: Mr Speaker, that is news to our ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

USE OF SEWER WATER IN CHAMBA VALLEY IN MUNALI

308. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    what action had been taken against people who were irrigating crops using sewer water at Chamba Valley in Munali Parliament Constituency; and

(b)    whether the water from the boreholes near the sewerage dam in Chamba Valley was safe for human consumption.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the LCC, has been sensitising people in the city on the dangers of using dirty water for human consumption as well as against using sewer water for irrigation of crops. In the case of Chamba Valley, my ministry has directed the council to investigate and bring to book all the people who are irrigating crops using sewer water so that this scourge can be stopped. In addition, the Government has directed the LCC not to approve developmental plans for the construction of residential dwellings where there is no indication of a source of water and sewerage facilities to avoid the contamination of water meant for household use.

Mr Speaker, the boreholes in question are owned by private individuals and, as such, Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company is not mandated to monitor the quality of water on private plots. However, if a request is made by owners of these boreholes to Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company for water testing, the process can be carried out and an appropriate recommendation can be made whether to maintain these boreholes or bury these water points. In the meantime, the LCC has been requested by the ministry to engage Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company so that the matter of irrigating crops using sewer water can be investigated and appropriate action taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am sure we are all aware that before those sewer ponds were constructed, Chamba Valley was designated as a farm area. Now, because of lack of political will, cadres from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government started giving out plots ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! What is your question?

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, is the Government going to consider giving money to the LCC or Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company to construct or improve the sewer ponds so that people stop using water in sewer ponds for irrigation?

Dr Kazonga: Sir, there are two issues that have been raised. The first part is on the allegation of issuance of plots. It is illegal for anybody to do this and the Country and Town Planning Act is very clear on that. The LCC has a role to play in terms of controlling the development. Therefore, if a place is not appropriate for human habitation, the local authority has a role to play in ensuring that nothing of this nature arises.

Secondly, in terms of the ponds that are there, if the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company assess that there is a need to put up, maybe, a wall fence or anything that can be a barrier, something of that nature can be considered. This will, again, depend on the judgement taken by the technocrats. However, the LCC and the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company will be able to assess from their technical point of view in terms of creating a barrier.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for Chimwemwe.

Mrs Phiri: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: On who?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Nsanda: Mr Speaker, the answer that has been given by …

Mrs Phiri: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. The hon. Minister said that the LCC has the authority to intervene when people start constructing illegal structures. Sir, I have raised this issue on the Floor of this House many times.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is your point of order?

Mrs Phiri: I am getting there …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: No, no, what is your point of order?

Mrs Phiri: Is the hon. Minister in order to state that the LCC has the authority to intervene when people start constructing illegal structures when he is aware that, I have , on several occasions, mentioned names of cadres in Munali Parliamentary Constituency who have been allocating illegal plots? This issue has been reported to the police and dockets have been opened to that effect. I can mention some cadres in Mtendere East who have been involved in allocating plots. The MMD Ward Chairperson, Mr Mpashi is on record …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I think you are using your point of order to debate. That is not allowed. I am afraid you are debating. So, go straight to your point of order. I have given you the last chance. Can you raise your point of order?

Mrs Phiri: Sir, I thank you for giving me the last chance.

Is the hon. Minister in order to allege that we have the authority to intervene in the illegal allocation of plots, and yet there is no political will from the Government? I need your serious ruling because facts are there.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Minister was asked a question to which he gave an answer. If you are not satisfied with the answer, you can raise it at a later date.

Mr Nsanda: Mr Speaker, I was making a follow-up on the answer …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Nsanda: … that was given by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. The hon. Minister was asked a question about what happens to the underground water which people are drinking when, in fact, it is sewage water that people use to water crops.

Laughter

Mr Nsanda: He said a wall barrier would be put up, but the question is, you cannot put a barrier when the water is going underground. 

Laughter

Mr Nsanda: How is the clean water people are drinking going to be separated from the polluted water?

Laughter

Mr Nsanda: The wall barrier will be on top and water will still sink to the bottom.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Kazonga: … we have categorically indicated that anybody using that water point is free to go to the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company where this water can be tested. The water will be tested to see whether it is good for human consumption or not. When that is done, appropriate advice will be given, but if it is not good for human consumption, definitely the water point will be closed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Kambwili interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Do not worry, just ask your question.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: … with regard to the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister, …

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: You are my friend. What is wrong with you?

Laughter

 Mr Ntundu: … in the event that it is proved that what the hon. Member for …

Hamududu: Nangoma!

Mr Ntundu: … Nangoma said about people using sewer water to irrigate their crops is true, are they going to be brought to book? I would like to find out from the hon. Minister who is looking elsewhere, again, … 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

No, hon. Member for Gwembe, do not confuse the situation. Just ask your question because the hon. Minister is listening.

Mr Ntundu: Sir, I thank you, for your guidance. If it is true that people are using sewer water to irrigate their crops, what measures has the ministry put in place to ensure that people are given clean water or pipes to Chamba Valley are put up.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the ministry is concerned about issues of public health. The question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Nangoma borders on public health. We need to protect the health of everybody because what is grown there can be consumed by anyone. Therefore, we are equally concerned and that is why we have directed the local authority to investigate this matter so that appropriate action can be taken based on the findings.

With regard to water supply, …

Mr Kambwili: Champwa mudala!

Dr Kazonga: … the Government is concerned about supply of clean water to our communities. In urban areas, we are using our utility companies and, in particular, for Lusaka, we have the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company which provides this service. Therefore, long term plans are there for the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company to provide clean water so that the majority of our communities can have access to it. We have a plan to ensure that we provide water, but this plan will be implemented according to the availability of funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that people who are watering their gardens …

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you raise your voice?

Mr Mwenya: … using sewer water are doing it because that is their only source of income? What effort is the ministry making to find alternative land for people who have already shown that they are capable of producing their own food? What effort is being put in place to identify land where these people can be relocated to and encouraged to continue farming?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, it has to be clearly stated that poverty does not entail that one has to break the law. No matter how poor one may be, they have to respect the laws of this country. 

As for what the Government is doing to address these issues, I would like to say that there are many efforts that have been made because if it is the question of land, the Ministry of Lands can be contacted. If it is the issue of resettlement, the Office of the Vice-President has taken some people to appropriate places to continue with their activities. All in all, I would like to emphasise that no matter how poor one may be, that is not a passport to break the law. It is important to respect our laws.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, are the Munali sewerage ponds treated for public health concerns and is there any outlet for the effluent from these ponds?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company is looking at ways of further treating these ponds. Currently, we have a number of them and the challenges they are facing are financial ones. As a Government, we are in the process of assisting them so that we can further expand, in terms of the purification and treatment of the ponds. We have a plan to further expand the treatment plants so that the sewer material can be processed in order to reduce on diseases. Therefore, the simple answer is that there are treatment plants in certain areas and not everywhere.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that the LCC is not the only council which is affected by this problem under review. Could the hon. Minister state that the piece of advice he has given applies to councils which are likely to be in the same situation countrywide.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, indeed, as I indicated, since this is a serious public health issue, we are extending this to other utility companies in all our provinces. As correctly indicated, Zambia is not Lusaka alone. Therefore, this will be extended to other provinces.

I thank you, Sir. 

RESUMPTION OF REHABILITATION OF NAMPUNDWE/MUMBWA ROAD

309. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the rehabilitation of the Nampundewe/Mumbwa Road, which ended at Blue Lagoon, would resume.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the contract for the periodic maintenance of the 83 kilometre Nampundwe/Blue Lagoon Road was awarded and works commenced on 25th August, 2008 and were completed in February, 2009. 

Mr Speaker, the contract did not, however, include the section between Blue Lagoon and Mumbwa as the funds allocated to the project were insufficient. The contract sum for the periodic maintenance of the Nampundwe/Blue Lagoon was ZMK6,674,094,067. The Ministry of Works and Supply intends to use the plant and equipment under the Rural Road Unit (RRU) to carry out the periodic maintenance of the remaining section of the road between Nampundwe and Mumbwa.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply and his deputy look very serious. I would like to find out whether these roads, which are being rehabilitated at such a huge cost, have a maintenance regime rather than this yellow equipment, which has no maintenance money, working on the Monze/Niko and Nampundwe/Mumbwa roads?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, it is this House which approved the K5 billion for each province for the purpose of road maintenance. If you think you have more money, you can add on to that, …

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: …especially from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). It can go towards maintaining the roads. If you seriously care about the roads, you can use the CDF. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we have always complained about roads, left, right and centre. Is this Government not thinking of bringing back the road camps that were there in the time of United National Independent Party (UNIP) that ensured that all the roads were in a perfect condition all the time? This would be a good idea so that we stop bothering the hon. Minister who can, sometimes, be so sarcastic in his answers. I think if these camps were in place, we would direct our questions there. 

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, if they were doing so well, they would still be there.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: The reason that they are that side, means they did not do very well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where are they?

Mr Mulongoti: The remnants.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Answer the question.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, however, we have had difficulties in the road sector because of the costs involved. At the time the camps were in existence, the economy was doing very well. As we progressed, there were financial problems and the camps stopped to operate. In the process, the roads deteriorated to a level where it became very difficult to maintain them. However, as we progress, we are considering any measures that can help in the maintenance of the roads. This is why we are also seriously thinking of tolling the roads so that when we have sufficient funding, the camps can come back so that the roads can maintain themselves. We are looking at many other measures that can help keep our roads in a good condition. So, it is not intentional on our part …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Please, do not engage him.

 Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the difficult part is that when you are in Government, you see problems a little clearer than those who sit on the other side. 

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mulongoti: They think it is possible to do anything. When you are in Government, you will have to consider many other social issues. 

Hon. Kakoma, be grateful that there is the Mutanda/Chavuma Road, but we might change our minds.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, in his response to the supplementary question, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply stated that the Government was considering tolling some roads to raise funds. When is this programme likely to start because it has been in the books of various Governments for quite some time? 

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that the hon. Member for Luapula has not seen it. We have advertised it under the PPP starting with the Chingola/Kitwe Road Dual Carriage Way and tolling of that road. We have to be cautious as we introduce this because some of our people will not afford. Therefore, when you toll a road, you must make a provision for those who cannot afford the fees. It is quite a costly exercise and I think we are starting with the Chingola/Kitwe Road as a pilot project. We have already advertised and people have applied. The valuation started and it will not be long before you see a toll gate on that route.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister, who is my tribal cousin and does not have a constituency, tell us whether the CDF that he preaches about, everyday, on the Floor of the House, in the print and electronic media, is enough to rehabilitate the roads. Let us be serious about this issue because people are listening out there.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, with careful planning, K600 million can go a long way.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mulongoti: It can go a long way in mitigating some of the problems that you have in your constituencies. If you are going to treat K600 million as nothing, I have difficulties believing that the issue of frugality is on your minds.  

Mr Speaker, with K600 million, you can mitigate small bridges and a few potholes. The problem is that your priorities are wrong. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mulongoti: You want to fund clubs so that you can be popular. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mulongoti: Work on roads and you will be popular. It is your priorities that are wrong. For instance, when we ask people what they did with the money, they say they bought iron sheets for a school or that they helped a church.

Mr Kambwili: What is wrong with that?

Mr Mulongoti: In the meantime, every time, a pothole erupts on the road, we are being called names by people using the road. I, therefore, appeal to hon. Members to inquire from the Ministry of Education whether it has got money for such projects before using the K600 million on school structures. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mulongoti: Why do you want to compete with the Ministry of Health or the Ministry of Education? We have funds for such purposes. The problem is that some of you are too lazy to go through the Yellow Book. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! It appears that we do not want to get answers clearly. I will have one more person ask a question. 

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply is advising hon. Members pf Parliament to stop competing with the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Health …

Mr Mukanga: On a point of Order, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply in order to allege that hon. Members of Parliament are too lazy to go through the Yellow Book? Is he in order to use a word which is not parliamentary? I need your serious ruling. 

The Deputy Chairperson: He is not in order. 

The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: No more points of order for now. 

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply has been advising hon. Members of Parliament to stop competing with him and the hon. Ministers of Education and Health in the use of the funds allocated towards CDF projects.

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from him why he thinks that hon. Members of Parliament should allocate to projects …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! There is too much discussion on my left. 

Mr Kakoma: …that will not constitute competition against him? 

The Deputy Chairperson: I am going to move on because what we are discussing now does not concern the Nampundwe/Mumbwa Road. We have move to the next question.

CHANGE OF LAND-USE OF PARKS IN LUAPULA

310. Mr Chitonge (Mwansabombwe) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing how much land, originally used as parks, in Luapula Province, had its land-use changed as of December, 2008. 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that as of 31st December, 2008, no land which was originally used as parks in the Luapula Province had its land use changed. 

Mr Speaker, if there is land whose original use has been changed, the action is illegal because at no time has my ministry approved any change of use for the parks in the Luapula Province.
Mr Speaker, I thank you, Sir. 

UPGRADING MWANSABOMBWE INTO A SUB-DISTRICT

311. Mr Chitonge asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing whether there were any plans to upgrade Mwansabombwe into a sub-district considering that it met the necessary requirements in terms of population and other facilities. 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government has no problem in granting Mwansabombwe area the sub-district centre status provided that Mwense District Council makes a resolution to that effect and a recommendation is made to the hon. Minister for consideration. 

Mr Kambwili: Is it Mwense or Kawambwa?

Hon. Opposition Member: Kawambwa.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker a district sub-centre is an administration area designated by the council for administration convenience and usually distance from the district and availability of infrastructure is taken into account when a council is conferring sub-centre status to an area.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister clarify why Mwense should pass the resolution when Mwansabombwe is in Kawambwa District? 

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, it is the responsible district which must do so. In this case, it is Kawambwa, which has to pass the resolution to the hon. Minister for consideration. 

I thank you.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, are there any serious plans by the Government to review all the seventy-two districts in 2011?

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, we have received a number of requests regarding the consideration of new districts. As a ministry, we are developing detailed criteria on how we can consider migration of some of these structures upward, from one level to the next. This is possible before or after 2011. We are currently developing guidelines for ourselves and other stakeholders regarding transparency so that everybody knows what is required to move from one stage to the next. 

I thank you, Sir.

SUPPORT RENDERED TO BASIC SCHOOLS UPGRADED TO HIGH SCHOOLS IN KALOMO

312. Mr Muntanga asked the Minister of Education what support had been rendered to schools such as Dimbwe Day and Siachitema Day in Kalomo Central Parliamentary Constituency that were recently upgraded from basic to high schools.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Dimbwe and Siachitema Day schools have not been upgraded to high school status. The two schools are running open learning classes. Open learning classes exist countrywide and were started as a way of increasing access to our school children. This was done to accommodate pupils who acquired full certificates, but could not find places in regular high schools. Currently, the schools receive grants from the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) Office to purchase school materials. In certain circumstances, qualified teachers are sent to some schools running open learning classes, including Dimbwe and Siachitema Day schools to improve the quality of education offered. 

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply in order to mislead the nation and this House that it is the hon. Members of Parliament who are supposed to check whether a given project has been funded by the  Central Government? In the CDF guidelines, it is clear that the job of the District Development Committee (DDC) is to check whether a project has been funded by the Central Government so that they can advise the CDF Committee to take up another project. Is he, therefore, in order to mislead the nation by saying that hon. Members of Parliament are lazy and that they are not checking whether or not these projects have been funded in the Yellow Book? I need you serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! My serious ruling is that your point of order is unsustainable because it is not relevant to the issue under discussion and you are making a point of order long after the hon. Minister had said it. Therefore, that is it.

May the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, please, continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, last year, certain basic schools were picked by the Ministry of Education and designated as high schools. It is only now that the ministry wants to rescind the decision. Would the hon. Minister make it very clear what the decision to upgrade certain basic schools into high schools was based upon?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, it is not that we have back-pedalled from our decision. What is happening is that the Ministry of Education has got some programmes that it is carrying out in order to create more opportunities for our children. One of them is the open learning classes. These classes are there all over the country. Actually, we have a directorate in the Ministry of Education which starts from the ministry headquarters, provincial headquarters and district headquarters. This is going side by side with, for example, the production units as well as the regular high schools. It is not that we have rescinded a decision that we had made. That is not true. It is just part of the Government programmes.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, we had the programme of open learning classes closed in Bweengwa and Monze Central.

 Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Could the hon. Minister give a guarantee to the nation out there that places like Dimbwe and Siachitema will not be reverted to basic classes.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, it is our policy that we create as many opportunities as possible. If at all there were any classes that were closed, I would like the hon. Member to come to the office so that we liaise with our officers over the issue.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Education, with due respect, why there was no transitional arrangement when effecting this change because many children, especially the girl child, have gone to the village and their future is bleak  in places like Keemba and others. Why does the Government just do things suddenly and send the children home? 

For a girl child to be appointed Minister of Education …

 The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Sinyinda:  Mr Speaker, that is the reason I said that if there are any such classes that have been closed as a result of that, we would like the hon. Member to liaise with us so that we can do something about that. I would like to assure him that that is not our policy. Our policy is to open as many classes as possible because we want to create more opportunities for our children.

 I thank you, Mr Spekaer.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for uhmm …

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, have you forgotten my constituency? It is Chipili.

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, this is very important. When we had Hon. Professor Lungwangwa as Minister of Education, he used to give hon. Members of Parliament infrastructure annual work plans. He did that in 2008 and 2009. Since the new Minister, Hon. Siliya, took over, she has not given out the infrastructure annual work plan for 2010. When is the hon. Minister going to do that so that we know how many schools each hon. Member of Parliament has been given.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister can give a bonus answer although the question is not related to the principal question.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, although this question is not related to the one under discussion, I would like to give a bonus answer. The House will recall that, last week, a similar question was asked and I promised that we were going to produce operational plans in the next two months or so.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, in this House, we have talked against academic production unit (APU) because that kind of education lacks quality. I am now wondering why the ministry is going the open learning way, which, again, lacks quality owing to the fact that teachers are just deployed for this particular purpose. Why is the Government not upgrading these schools to high school status?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Choma, who is also my fellow headmaster, knows very well that this programme has not just been started. From time immemorial, this Government has been offering this programme. If you still remember, we have had the supervised study groups (SSP), for some time now, running side by side with the evening classes. While we agree that we may not be delivering quality education, as a ministry, we feel that we need to sit down from, time to time, to discuss how we can improve on what we are doing. Therefore, to eliminate open classes and the APU at this stage when most of our children do not have opportunities will not be a good idea.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Education clear the confusion over the situation obtaining in Kalomo Central where the Ministry of Education promised the people of Dimbwe and Siachitema that the two schools in the respective areas would be given high school status. Following this pronouncement, the schools even started enrolling pupils in Grade 10, but after having done so and these pupils reaching Grade 11, they were stopped from further enrolling in Grade 10. May I know why the ministry has stopped the enrollment of pupils thus creating serious confusion at those two schools?

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, in 2007, the Ministry of Education made a decision to stop upgrading basic schools and the reason was simple, most of these basic schools lacked the necessary infrastructure to provide the kind of learning that is required of high schools. However, with the ministry’s intention to provide access to as many children as possible, it embarked on the programme to construct new infrastructure such as the high schools being built nationwide so that it could provide that very much needed access.

Nevertheless, we, as a ministry, still found it necessary to provide the open learning classes which are affiliated to the Luanshya Trades School because we found that there were so many children in areas where we had not yet provided high schools that still needed to continue to learn. The choice was either open learning classes or none. It is clear which choice we made.

At high school level, we also discovered that as much as we had provided existing and new infrastructure, there was still a backlog of education spaces at high schools needed in this country. For a long time, especially in the 1980s, there was hardly any investment in the education sector, but people did not stop having children. Therefore, we needed to deal with that problem and this is why we introduced the APU classes. We do recognise that the APU classes have brought some sort of conflict in terms of the kind of education offered as opposed to that offered in normal classes. However, our choice, again, is to either have these classes or none.

Sir, in terms of the infrastructure programme, it is one thing to provide infrastructure and another to, actually, implement and complete this infrastructure building. We found it necessary, after going around the country, that in some communities we had such problems in getting people to participate in terms of community mode. Therefore, we had to go back to the drawing board and say, “Is it a matter of pleasing Hon. D. Mwila and providing an infrastructure programme in December, or actually coming forward to try and do the right thing by consulting and liaising with everybody that is involved so that we can provide a good document that we can implement?”

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Question!

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

The House adjourned at 1748 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 3rd March, 2010.