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Debates- Wednesday, 12th August, 2009
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 12th August, 2009
The House met at 1430 hours
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
___________
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
THE TRANSFER OF FUNDS FROM LUSAKA INTERCITY ACCOUNT TO THE ZAMBIA POLICE (CID) ACCOUNT
The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Livestock and Fisheries) (Mr Machila): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to give a ministerial statement on the transfer of funds from the Intercity Bus Terminus account through Lusaka City Council to the Zambia Police (CID) Account.
Madam Speaker, the purpose of these funds was to assist the Lusaka City Council to remove street vendors who have taken over the streets in town and other areas within Lusaka. If the Lusaka City Council was doing its work effectively, and undertaking actions such as the removal of street vendors, this exercise would not be necessary. I, therefore, wish to take this opportunity to appeal to all the hon. Members who are councillors, particularly Hon. Jean Kapata, to help us in ensuring that their councils carryout their legal mandate effectively, thereby ensuring that our citizens comply with the laws of Zambia.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I hereby wish to confirm that the sum of K2.1 billion was transferred from the Intercity Bus Terminus account to the Zambia Police Service (CID) Account. This money did not come from the Lusaka City Council Account, but from a business venture account which the Government of Zambia set up to raise revenue for the improvement of facilities such as markets and bus stations throughout the country.
Madam Speaker, hon. Members of this august House may recall that in and around 1999/2000, the Government increased its oversight of the management at the Intercity Bus Terminus, in order to restore law and order. This is due to the fact that the facility had been taken over by unscrupulous persons that were raising revenue for themselves at the expense of the travelling public and, indeed, the Lusaka City Council. It is against this background that the Government invested in the Intercity Bus Terminus by spending over K5 billion in the tarring of the pavements, bus bays and parking slots, as well as refurbishing the station’s buildings and the ablution blocks. Furthermore, a security wall with a barbed wire top was erected to keep out vagabonds and other unwanted elements with a view to ensuring that the place is secure both during the day and night.
Madam Speaker, the Government thereafter placed the Intercity Bus Terminus under a management board, whose purpose was to engage modern management techniques to ensure that the bus terminus operated as a business venture with a view to meeting its operational and other costs. It was also decided that the Intercity Bus Terminus should generate revenue which could be used to improve such other facilities throughout the country. Similarly, the Lusaka City Market was placed under a management board following the same concept and both facilities are currently doing very well by any standards.
Madam Speaker, hon. Members may wish to know that due to the efforts of the Government, the Intercity Bus Terminus has accumulated a surplus of over K7 billion which has been set aside for future investments. This is notwithstanding the fact that the Lusaka City Council has been receiving K150 million on a monthly basis from the station. I must also hasten to inform this august House that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing should have been receiving 42.5 percent of the surplus income from the station towards the national fund for the improvement of markets and bus stations. However, due to the number of projects that the Intercity Bus Terminus management had initiated, the ministry refrained from taking its due share, until the need arose to engage the Zambia Police Service. In this regard, the transfer of these funds, therefore, did not require council approval as the funds were already due to the ministry.
Furthermore, hon. Members may also recall that under the Markets and Bus Stations Act No. 7 of 2007, Section 32 provides for the establishment of a National Market and Bus Station Development Fund under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. The purpose of this fund is to assist in the development of other markets and bus stations in needy areas. This fund is made up of resources, part of which are remittances from markets and bus stations created through Government investments.
In conclusion, I wish to appeal for the support of this august House in making sure that all our councils deliver services to the people and that they use the proceeds of their revenue generating ventures to improve other facilities.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Acting Minister of Local Government and Housing.
Ms Kapata (Madevu): Madam Speaker, the issue of street vending has been there from time immemorial. People have been given an ultimatum in the past and they have moved from the streets. Could the hon. Minister tell us when the new Soweto Market which the ministry has so much politicised is going to be opened so that the street vendors can find room from where to operate.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, we are in the process of finalising the arrangements with regards to the Soweto Market that the hon. Member has just referred to. It is true that there had been problems since time immemorial with regards to street vending, but hon. Members should also be alive to the fact that although there is this new market in the offing, the likelihood is that, it would not have the capacity to accommodate all the street vendors that we are looking to move from the streets.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, since the money was moved from the Intercity Bus Terminus Account to the Zambia Police (CID) Account for the purpose of assisting the police to remove street vendors, may I know what that money was utilised for since the street vendors are still on the street?
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, the money shall be utilised for the purposes for which it was intended. The money is still in an account and it is the intention of the Government together with the council to ensure that the vendors are removed from the streets. That is still a pending operation.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, there is a place near Carrousel Shopping Centre which was given to the Government by the owner so that it could accommodate all the street vendors because the ministry has been saying that there is no place for them to do their trading. Why has the Government not worked on that place?
Madam Deputy Speaker: We have to remember that we should stand only on points of clarifications on the ministerial statement which arose from a point of order on the money that was transferred. However, if the hon. Minister has answers going that far, he may assist.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, it is true that there is another location close to Carousel Shopping Centre that the hon. Member is talking about. It is important that we provide facilities there and that is also an exercise which is still underway.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, this Government is becoming known for failing to make decisions, such is this one, …
Interruptions
Mr Hachipuka: … when is it going to remove the vendors from the streets? Why are you postponing the activity and transferring money between banks accounts instead of taking action. What kind of a Government are you?
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! If it is the last question that is the question.
Mr Hachipuka: This Government is just good at making decisions and not acting on them. They are a Government, what is wrong with them. When are they removing the vendors?
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member is asking too many questions so …
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: … I do not know whether the hon. Minister should respond as to what kind of Government he is part of or to the when part of the question? The hon. Minister may only answer the when part of the question.
Laughter
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, if we are fortunate enough we may live long enough to see how that Government might deal with this situation.
Hon. Opposition Members: When?
Mr Machila: It may be interesting to see how they deal with it, but notwithstanding as I said earlier, this programme is still alive and shall be attended to in the shortest possible time.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, as a follow up to the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu, regarding the allocation of stands and opening of the new market, may I find out from the hon. Minister if he is aware that this Government has lost a lot of money through mishandled allocations by party cadres.
Madam Deputy Speaker: I will still repeat that the clarifications must be only on the money that was transferred. Let us not pull the acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing beyond that.
The hon. Member for Chongwe.
Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister regarding the circumstances in which the money was transferred from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. I ask this question being fully aware that the Minister under the Act approves council budgets and can direct money to move from one account to another, as long as the functions are related to the local government system. However, since this money has been given to the police, it means that the local government system has lost out some money for other services.
Hon. Opposition Member: Yes.
Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, is the Government considering through Ministry of Finance and National Planning to release money to replace the money that was transferred so that it can be used for projects that are purely related to the planning and budgeting for the councils and indeed local government.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, in the statement I stated very clearly that these funds came from the Intercity Bus Terminus Account which had a surplus of over K7 billion. Now, the purpose for the transfer of those funds to the Zambia Police (CID) Account is in order to facilitate the process of removing street vendors. So, to suggest that the money has been lost or misappropriated is not actually correct.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I fail to find the logic behind the money transfer. Why did the hon. Minister allow the transferring of money from the Intercity Bus Terminus Account when he knew that the money was not going to be used immediately? He should have kept it so that it could be used for other very demanding things.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, the time that this money was transferred, the exercise was eminent for reasons that are best known to us. For reasons of expedience, we resolved that at that particular time, it was appropriate to undertake this exercise, that notwithstanding, we shall be undertaking the exercise to remove the street vendors.
Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, in relation to the question raised by the hon. Member for Mbabala, I would like to ask the hon. Minister, what wisdom there is in deciding to get K2.1 billion purely to remove street vendors from the streets rather than using that money to build or upgrade existing markets so as to encourage the vendors to move from the streets into rehabilitated markets in Chawama, Mandevu, Kanyama and Kabwata …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Lubinda: … because even when that money will be used for removing the vendors from the streets, they will still go back to there and …
Madam Deputy Speaker: You are debating.
Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, can I find out what wisdom there is in such unnecessary and unproductive expenditure by this Government.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, in the first part of my statement I said and I will repeat, if the Lusaka City Council (LCC) was doing its work effectively and undertaking actions such as the removal of street vendors, this exercise would not be necessary. The hon. Member for Kabwata, who has just tabled the question is a Member of LCC ...
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Machila: … and he will be better placed to explain why there has been a mess in discharging its functions.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Lubinda stood up.
Laughter
Madam Speaker: Order!
Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Madam Speaker, in answering Hon. Hachipuka’s question, the hon. Minister said he wants to live long enough to see the pact government handle this situation.
Mr D. Mwila: Wekeshapo!
Hon. Government Members: Aaah!
Interruptions
Mrs Musokotwane: Now, is the hon. Minister saying his Government has failed so he is waiting for the pact government to come and handle this situation.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, what I said was that if I should be fortunate enough to live long enough to see that Government, that notwithstanding …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! We want to get the sense behind the statement.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I have already stated that Government shall be addressing the issue of street vendors and therefore, I do not see any need to belabour this point.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that moving money from one ministry, like Ministry of Home Affairs to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is irregular according to the standing financial regulations of this country. Money can only move from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to another ministry.
Major Chizhyuka: Yes!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, there is absolutely nothing irregular in what was done, as I stated earlier that these funds were being accumulated and were due to Government from the Intercity Bus Terminus keeping in mind that we had already previously invested over K5 billion in upgrading and improving the facility.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, in fact money accumulated by non-tax collecting ministries goes into Control 99. However, would the hon. Minister accept that even the K2.1 billion to be spent on removing street vendors will not help solve the problem, which is due to the deterioration of our economy? As long as our economy is in its current state, there will be tendency for people to want to trade.
Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, it is true that with the global financial crisis, there has been a downturn in the economy and that our citizens are challenged to do whatever they can to make ends meet. That notwithstanding, it does not allow them to break the law and trade on the streets.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Yes!
___________
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
ASSISTANCE TO FIGHT CHOLERA OUTBREAK IN ZIMBABWE
456. Colonel Chanda asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning under what authority the ministry released K2.0 billion to assist fight the cholera outbreak in Zimbabwe in January, 2009.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!
The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Madam Speaker, the ministry released K2 billion for cholera prevention and control in Zimbabwe following a Cabinet resolution to provide humanitarian assistance to Zimbabwe. In December, 2008, a serious outbreak of cholera in Zimbabwe, which affected almost all provinces, had started to affect some bordering districts in the Southern Province of Zambia. The scenario meant that if no measures were taken to contain the outbreak, the situation was going to be unmanageable for the Zambian towns bordering with Zimbabwe; that is Siavonga, Livingstone and Sinazongwe districts. Consequently, the Zambian Government, through the Ministry of Health and other stakeholders, was obliged to take immediate action.
During the same time, the Southern African Development Community (SADC) met, where the serious outbreak of cholera was tabled and a resolution was passed for all the SADC member States, especially those bordering Zimbabwe, to assist Zimbabwe contain the outbreak. Subsequently, a SADC envoy was sent to Zambia to meet with His Excellency, The President of the Republic of Zambia to deliver the resolution where Zambia was requested to urgently assist Zimbabwe fight the cholera outbreak.
Madam Speaker, at the Multisectoral National Epidemic Preparedness, Prevention Control and Management Committee meeting held on 21st December, 2008 at the Ministry of Health, the hon. Minister of Health informed the meeting that following the meeting between the SADC envoy and His Excellency the President, the Government had committed itself to assisting Zimbabwe control the cholera epidemic. Consequently, the Ministry of Health was requested to draw a budget for the technical and logistic requirements to implement the commitment of Zambia as part of the SADC request. This was later presented to Cabinet which supported the resolution to provide technical and logistical support for humanitarian assistance to Zimbabwe.
It is against this background that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning released the K2 billion in January, 2009 towards assisting Zimbabwe contain the cholera outbreak following a request from the Ministry of Health.
Madam Speaker, the initial strategy to assist was to send a well-equipped Zambian medical team to districts bordering Zimbabwe. However, after consultations with stakeholders, it was proposed that a rapid response team with various experts be sent to Zimbabwe to assess how best this assistance could be administered. A team that travelled to Zimbabwe in January, 2009 recommended that a two-pronged approach be made, firstly, to assist with a one-off donation of medical supplies, materials and equipment and, secondly, to support border districts in Zambia work closely with the districts along the border on the Zimbabwean side.
A one-off donation of cholera medical supplies, material and equipments was handed over in Zambia by the Ministry of Health to His Excellency, the High Commissioner of Zimbabwe at a ceremony. The consignment was later transported to Zimbabwe and handed over to the Zimbabwean Government through the Ministry of Health in Zimbabwe. The total cost of the one-off donation was K667 million.
The cholera activities along the border districts have continued and are co-ordinated by the Provincial Medical Officer’s office in Southern Province who is working closely with the district health officials in the Zimbabwean towns of Hwange (Victoria Falls) and Chirundu. The programme includes case management, disease surveillance, food safety and control, disinfection of sanitary facilities at border premises, information, education and communication activities, contact tracing, home chlorination, premises inspection and so on.
With the above approach, I am reliably informed that the cholera outbreak along cross border districts with Zimbabwe has been successfully contained. In fact, the Zimbabwe district of Hwange (Victoria Falls) has not recorded any single case of cholera and this can be attributed to the joint border cholera control initiatives.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Colonel Chanda: Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister for an elaborate answer but, however, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if she is aware that at the time that Zimbabwe was experiencing this same calamity, most parts of Zambia were also experiencing cholera, especially in Kanyama …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Colonel Chanda: … and would have been assisted with this money. Does the hon. Minister think it was right for us to spend so much money in a foreign country when we could have helped our own nationals who were experiencing a similar calamity?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question. The main factors which necessitated the action were that, first of all, we are part of the regional community and, therefore, were obliged to take action which was a collectively agreed upon at the regional level. Secondly, the cholera outbreak was of an urgent and humanitarian nature and, thirdly, the proximity of the epidemic to Zambia meant that we had to take action because the consequences of letting that epidemic overflow into our country would have probably meant a lot more expenditure on our part in containing the disease in Zambia.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Madam Speaker, may the hon. Minister possibly indicate to the House how much we could have received from Zimbabwe to mitigate several other major outbreaks we have had in Zambia.
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. It is a very speculative question and I am not in a position to start answering for Zimbabwe as to what its position would be. However, being a good neighbour, I am sure that if we were in such need of humanitarian assistance, other SADC countries would come to our aid.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Madam Speaker, our friends in Government should know that they are not running a kantemba and the money they gave to the Zimbabwean Government was public money.
Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! A point of order is raised, presumably on procedure.
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, most certainly. I thank you very much for this opportunity and I apologise to Hon. Mwila for interrupting his follow-up question. I rise on a point of order on the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development, my brother-in-law, Hon. Konga. My point of order is very serious because it involves a national utility which has been of great concern to almost all Zambians today. I am talking about the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO).
Madam Speaker, we know that ZESCO has been confronted with several problems which are insurmountable, as a matter of fact, but, inter-alia, these problems have been operational, financial, management setbacks and also due to Government interference.
Madam Speaker, Dr Lemba Nyirenda, a former employee of the United Nations Industrial Development Organisation (UNIDO) as well as the University of Zambia, who held, in his previous engagement, a very respectable position, was identified as the most suitable candidate to run ZESCO following the dismissal or termination of contract of Mr Rodney Sisala.
Madam Speaker, he was appointed by the board that was chaired by Mr Songowayo Zyambo and on 4th July, 2009, which is thirty-five days ago. Mr Zyambo flashed a news item in the Daily Mail of Saturday, 4thJuly, 2009, Volume 13, Number 159 and on page 2, under the headline: “ZESCO GETS NEW CEO, BY KASUBA MULENGA.” Let me quote from it:
“The Board of Directors of Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Limited has appointed Lemba Nyirenda as Managing Director replacing Rodney Sisala whose contract was terminated about two months ago. The ZESCO Board Chairman, Mr Songowayo Zyambo announced the appointment of Dr Nyirenda in a statement issued in Lusaka.”
“Dr Nyirenda has extensive experience in the energy sector both locally and internationally, said Mr Zyambo.
“Mr Zyambo said the board has observed that the scope of operations at ZESCO is so wide that it requires the attention of a managing director with knowledge on ZESCO’s technical infrastructure.”
Madam Speaker, it has been only thirty-five days since that development and I want to make another quotation from today’s Times of Zambia – Can you keep quiet?
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member. You better speak through the Chair because you will end up infringing on other people’s rights. Can you speak through the Chair? Do not listen to hecklers.
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker most obliged. Please, tell the hon. Members to keep quiet.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I have ordered and ruled that out of order. In fact, withdraw it and continue.
Mr Nkombo: Most obliged Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: You withdraw!
Mr Nkombo: I gladly withdraw that seemingly bad statement.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: In today’s edition of the Times of Zambia, No. 14,532 on the first page, we are informed and I want to quote the subheading of this article:
“NEW ZESCO MD DROPPED
“Newly-appointed ZESCO Managing Director Dr Lemba Nyirenda has been dropped by the board after it failed to reach an agreement with him over his contract. The board has, with immediate effect, declared Dr Lemba’s position vacant and appointed company Chief Operations Officer Mr Cyprian Chitundu to act as the Chief Executive Officer.”
“This is according to a press statement released yesterday by the ZESCO Board Chairman Mr Songowayo Zyambo.
“Further to our earlier announcement concerning the appointment of Dr Lemba D. Nyirenda as Managing Director of ZESCO, we regret to inform the public that the board has failed to reach an agreement with Dr Lemba on the terms and conditions of his contract of employment, said Mr Zyambo.”
Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister whom I have raised a point of order on, is fully aware of what the ZESCO Board does because he endorses every step of their direction. Is he, therefore, in order to remain quiet and permit Dr Lemba Nyirenda to run ZESCO without a contract for thirty-five days within which period he could have committed this country to serious engagements with other stakeholders? Is he in order to remain quiet and is it the order of business for them to employ people to run serious companies without a contract? I beg your serious ruling on this matter.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Indeed, the Chair will make a very serious ruling. The serious ruling of the Chair is that hon. Members, particularly of this Tenth Assembly, have been here a very long time. The Chair has guided as to what should seriously constitute a point of order.
Mr Kambwili: Is that not a serious ruling?
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Kambwili may not make such comments and because of that, when we seriously consider this point of order, I will still say, important as the hon. Member may feel it is, does the House really say this constitutes a point of order? There are many channels and we need to go back and read the Parliamentary Hand Book …
Mr Shakafuswa: Aah, this woman I will raise a point order. This is not a Grade 7 syllabus at Chingwere Primary School. The Speaker said we should bring such issues here.
Madam Deputy Speaker: … and the other document.
Hon. Government Members: Standing Orders.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Yes, the Standing Orders, so that we see how to proceed in the House. That particular point of order does not constitute a point of order.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: However, it can fall under other categories and nobody is stopping such from coming in if the hon. Members feel concerned. However, there are other categories in which things fall and with that kind of question, if the hon. Member feels it is so urgent, there is room for it. Even questions on constitutional matters have a procedure. I know that many times we want to move on, but what constitutes a point of order must be looked at so that we do not seem to be crossing and refusing to allow hon. Members to raise issues that, maybe, concern the nation.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chipili may continue.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, there are many stakeholders whom the Government was supposed to consult …
Hon. Government Member interjected.
Mr D. Mwila: … I am not talking to you.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr D. Mwila: Madam, …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, this is our House. It is up to us to keep it in a manner that we want it to be. It is also up to us to abrogate the responsibility that we are given by the people of Zambia. Hon. Members, speak through the Chair. Even your anger must be directed through the Chair and not at each other.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to inform this House whether consultations were made to arrive at this decision because they are not running a kantemba.
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member heard in my answer, I did state that consultations were held by the stakeholders and that the process was spearheaded by the Ministry of Health as it was the ministry concerned with this particular issue.
Madam Speaker, again, the matter was treated with a sense of urgency. I am sure the relevant stakeholders who were required to make a decision were consulted.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Katema (Chingola): Madam Speaker, rains are just around the corner and, therefore, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning how much money the ministry has put aside to prevent a cholera outbreak this year by way of improving on the drainage system in Kanyama since it gave K2 billion to Zimbabwe.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Ask your follow-up question and then we move on. The question was on money given to Zimbabwe, but if the hon. Minister thinks she has the answer for Kanyama, she may go ahead and answer the question.
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, I am sure that this is the very House that approves the Budget for the year, which was done earlier this year. I think that allocation is included in there.
Thank you, Madam.
Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm a well known fact, that, in fact, in the past Zambia has helped Mozambique in the prevention of cholera? Secondly, that Zambia has been helped by other countries, including the Democratic Republic of Congo in the prevention of cholera outbreaks?
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, this is, actually, the correct position as given by the former hon. Minister of Health. As I said in my response, we are part of the community of SADC and in instances where there are humanitarian problems that needs our attention, I think, it is expected of every country to help where they can.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam, in 1992, after the MMD came into power, there was a serious cholera outbreak in Luanshya which claimed about 600 lives within three weeks. May I know whether there was any SADC country that assisted Zambia during that time?
Interruptions
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam, if we go back to my question, we will realise that it was very specific on action which was taken, why and where the authority came from and, I think, that I have given the answers to this question.
Thank you, Madam.
Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam, much as I agree that we need to help our neighbours, I would like to find out from the Hon. Deputy Minister what line of budget allocation was utilised to arrive at this K2 billion?
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam, this allocation came as a result of a variation at the Ministry of Health. I am sure that the ministry must have looked at the budget to see how this cost could be accommodated and we were then guided by that.
Thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, what the Zambian Government did was more of hypocrisy than saving Zimbabwe. The Bible says, “you remove the spec in your eye first before you remove the log from your friend’s eye.”
Interruptions
Ms Kapata: Did other SADC countries contribute the same amount of money as Zambia did?
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The Bible can be used as you debate, but the Chair would rather hon. Member’s use it in reference to themselves because it is not easy to interpret.
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam, I do not have the figures of the amounts which were contributed by other SADC countries. However, I feel that in the case of Zambia, this cholera outbreak was happening at our border points and it had the potential to affect us. Therefore, this makes our contribution even more meaningful because it was also in line with the prevention of the situation spilling over into this country.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: Madam, I would have been a lot more comfortable if that assistance came from the contingency funds in the Yellow Book. However, the hon. Deputy Minister has said these funds came from the Ministry of Health. Can the hon. Minister inform this House whether that was proper, bearing in mind that the Ministry of Health itself was largely funded by donors through the Budget Support Programme?
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam, much as we have funding support from the donors, some of that funding are our own resources and,…
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: …therefore, we are at liberty to make some variation in a case where the cause calls for us to do so. Yes, we could have made a variation, but these are funds which we mobilised and, therefore, we are at liberty to make such a variation if need arises.
Thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam, let me commend the action to give aid to Zimbabwe who, despite us having looked after their freedom fighters and being bombed for that, never sought to help us. When their economy was doing very well, they used to be very cheeky towards Zambians.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You are debating. Can you ask your question?
Interruptions
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, I commend the ministry for having unfolded its arms. My question is, taking into consideration that this was a very difficult year with outstanding items, can the hon. Deputy Minister confirm that in this year’s Budget, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing will be given enough money to construct boreholes along the Chunga Stream in Katuba which has cholera outbreaks, every year, as the disease may spill over into Lusaka and other cities? This way, people can have clean drinking water, instead of getting water from the Chunga Stream which is an effluent of the dirt from Lusaka.
Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam, as the hon. Member is very aware, the budget preparation and actual approval goes through this House. I am sure those considerations will be taken into account and he will actively participate in that approval process.
I thank you, Madam.
CONSTRUCTION OF LABORATORIES AND LIBRARIES COUNTRYWIDE
457. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education when the Government would fund the construction of laboratories and libraries at all upper basic schools countrywide.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
The hon. Deputy Minister may continue.
The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Education is, currently, encouraging schools to procure science kits and mobile laboratories in schools without permanent laboratories through the National Science Centre. Schools are being encouraged to have a library corner where library facilities are not available. Due to budgetary constraints, we have not been able to construct permanent infrastructure such as science laboratories and libraries.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chisala: Madam, it is a well known that abstract teaching of science is a major contributing factor to the poor results in schools. The hon. Deputy Minister has just indicated that they have been sending equipment to some of the schools, but according to the information on the ground…
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Can you ask the follow up question?
Mr Chisala: What will happen to the schools which have no science equipment?
Mr Sinyinda: Madam, the hon. Member knows very well that this is an on-going programme. We are procuring and distributing science kits to our schools.
I thank you, Madam.
Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Madam Speaker, considering that the reading culture of this country is very poor, is the ministry considering strengthening the Zambia Library Services so that we can have meaningful libraries in districts and constituencies?
The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero for that very important question. Indeed, we need to expend more national effort in terms of creating a culture of reading in the country. We have libraries at various schools and where we do not have, we try to encourage schools to set up designated places where the children can find reading materials. We are also working with various communities, for example, in Lusaka where we have various non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and I know of a place in Chilenje where we have a designated reading place for children in the community.
With regard to the Zambia Library Services, yes, we need to re-look at the provision of this service so that it is efficient and can meet the demands. However, this is not just an effort for the Ministry of Education or Government, we have to work with all stakeholders like the communities, NGOs and churches so that we create this culture of reading. The family is cardinal in this process because the child needs to learn how to appreciate reading at a very tender age. Therefore, we are all partners in this process and we, as a ministry, will continue to ensure that the Zambia Library Services respond and meet the needs of the citizens.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, why has it taken so long to establish library services as a department and not a service of the Ministry of Education?
Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, the Government in the delivery of its services has gone through various dialogue and reforms. Apparently, in the Ministry of Education, we are trying to look at our policy which has been in existence for thirteen years now. We know that there are emerging facts on the ground that are challenging us in terms of provision of education services. As a result, very soon, we will be holding a national discussion or mini indaba on education so that we can map up the way forward as we deliver education and I am sure that library services and the encouragement of the culture of reading will be top of the agenda at this national discussion.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the Government is encouraging mobile laboratories when it has been established that the system has failed and this has been shown by the poor results that schools are obtaining. Why are they still encouraging that system, instead of encouraging the use of conventional laboratories in our schools?
Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I totally wish to disagree with the hon. Member of Parliament for Nchanga on the notion that results are becoming poorer every year. In fact, our statistics show that there is an improvement every year. Maybe you can take a leaf from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu who, during the show, visited the Ministry of Education stand and was quite surprised at how convenient a mobile laboratory kit is.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Siliya: In all the schools, that is the middle basic and upper schools where we do not have the permanent laboratory structures, instead of the pupils being taught in the total absence of laboratories we are providing these mobile laboratories kits. These are just as good as a permanent laboratory structures because they have the Bunsen burner, tap and spaces to put all the chemicals. Therefore, there is no hindrance, at all, in what type of science experiment that can be done because the experiments carried in these laboratory kits are as good as those that can be done in a permanent structures.
Madam Speaker, you will note that in the high schools, we have permanent laboratories, but due to the introduction of the middle and upper basic schools, we decided that it was important that, while we wait for funds to construct permanent laboratories, as we are doing with the new schools that we are building, it would be ideal for us to provide these laboratory kits. Therefore, I wish to invite, once again, hon. Members of Parliament to visit the science centre where we are manufacturing these laboratories locally. They are doing a very good job in middle and upper basic schools.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
HIPC MONEY RECEIVED FOR FUTURE SEARCH PROGRAMMES
458. Mr Mukanga asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice:
(a) how much heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) money was received for Future Search Programmes through the Public Service Management Division in 2002; and
(b) how much money at (a) was utilised accordingly.
The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Public Service Management Division received a total of K500 million of HIPC money for the Future Search Programmes in 2002.
Madam Speaker, the total sum of the money at (a) was utilised accordingly.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Deputy Minister whether procurement of vehicles was part of poverty alleviation and what action the Government has taken against those erring officers who misapplied the HIPC funds in the Public Service Management Division to date.
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Madam Speaker, in our response we have stated that this money was utilised for the intended purpose, which was to train retirees in entrepreneurship after they retired. Therefore, what the hon. Member has stated is not correct.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Kapata: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice, how successful and extensive is the Future Search Programme in this country.
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I wish to state that it is very successful.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: We attend to the needs of the numbers of the people that retire accordingly. Therefore, it is a very successful programme.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
CANALS IN LUENA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY
459. Mr Milupi asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when the following canals in Luena Parliamentary Constituency would be cleared, deepened and generally maintained.
(i) Ndanda;
(ii) Namitome;
(iii) Nalinanga;
(iv) Najoko;
(v) Sopu-Namitome; and
(vi) Ushaa.
The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has, so far, released K121 million for the rehabilitation and maintenance of canals for the Western Province. These funds have been disbursed to the Provincial Administration of Western Province, but they are not adequate to clear all the canals in the province.
The majority of canals in the question, which includes Ndanda, Namitome, Sopu-Namitome and Ushaa, were cleared between 2005 and 2007 and will only be allocated funds in the 2010 Budget. However, in the 2009 Budget, the ministry has allocated K15 million for clearing Nalinanga and Najoko canals.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, this is a cross cutting question, especially that it involves three constituencies, which are Sinjembela, Nalikwanda and Luena. Could the hon. Minister recognise that the clearing of canals in these three constituencies, and I have deliberately mentioned them, will go towards helping those people in the area to have successful farming seasons because they drain water from the flat lands.
Madam Speaker, when is the Government going to take this matter seriously and ensure that adequate funds are allocated not only to clearing the canals, but also widening and deepening them and creating new ones so that more agricultural land can be opened up to enable the people feed themselves?
The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, before resumption of Parliament this afternoon, I discussed this issue in detail with the hon. Member. What he is saying is clearly what we have agreed upon.
Laughter
Professor Lungwangwa: We discussed that there is need to give more attention to the deepening of the canals so that we can enhance the quality of life of the people in those areas. Therefore, he is just reiterating what we talked about.
Laughter
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, to add on, clearly, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) can be earmarked for this kind of exercise.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, it is a well known fact that the Government of the Republic of Zambia allocates huge sums of money to the construction and rehabilitation of roads each year. Could the hon. Minister state the reason why they always allocate minimal amounts of money to the clearing and deepening of canals?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is speaking as if he is not a member of this House. Every year, we discuss the Budget in this House and look at the figures of each department. Clearly, that question should have been raised at a different forum when we were discussing the Budget. Probably, the hon. Member should pay close attention to the current budgetary process so that he critically looks at the figures in the 2010 Budget.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, every year, money has been provided for deepening canals countrywide. Therefore, when is the hon. Minister going to make a follow-up to make sure that these monies are utilised for the intended purposes?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, we have people on the ground, who monitor and supervise the clearing and deepening of canals. In fact, the hon. Member, himself, should be part of that process, especially that Itezhi-tezhi has a number of canals. It would have been more helpful for him to tell us from his experience the type of problems that have been identified in Itezhi-tezhi. It is unfortunate that the hon. Member is speaking as if he is outside Itezhi-tezhi, and yet he represents the beautiful people of that area.
I thank you, Madam.
Dr Kalumba: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister, who is speaking so professorially, help us appreciate whether the deepening of these canals has any environmental impact, particularly on improving fish stocks.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the whole concept of deepening or clearing canals is related to the environment in that it contributes to the control of flooding. The process itself is environmentally friendly. We have actually seen fish living in some canals. This means that even the fish find refugee in cleared canals. That goes to show that the clearing process is actually environmentally friendly.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that for some of these areas, the deepening was done as far back as 2005. The latest was done in 2007 and for some of them, there was no time given. I can see that these canals are so important to the livelihood and economies of the people there. Could the hon. Minister, please, tell this House the optimum period between deepening and dredging which would make sure that these canals are kept clear and functioning?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member knows very well that the clearing and deepening of canals is done annually. Most of us who were brought up in a village where there are canals know that, in the past, …
Interruptions
Professor Lungwangwa: … our parents considered it an annual activity. In terms of time, it is a continuous annual process.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister urged the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi to be involved in the canal clearing exercise. With the new Public-Private Partnership arrangement, could the hon. Minister consider enticing some of our Lozi friends like the hon. Member for Luena and the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services to go and help dig these trenches so that they can be able to farm instead of just mourning that these canals have not been dug.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member’s question was bringing the debate into the House. We do not debate ourselves. However, the hon. Minister may respond to that.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kalomo is best suited to undertake canal clearing …
Laughter
Professor Lungwangwa: … in Luena Constituency, especially since Kalomo does not have any canals. I think this could be a very good exercise for the hon. Member for Kalomo.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Laughter
CONSTRUCTION OF BASIC SCHOOLS IN ZAMBEZI WEST CONSTITUENCY
460. Mr Kakoma asked the Minister of Education when the Government would construct basic schools at the following places in Zambezi West Parliament Constituency in order to achieve the Millennium Development Goal on education by 2015:
(i) Sakayi, Luvinge and Chikota in Chief Chinyama’s area;
(ii) Mishivi; Chiseji, Kayimba, Lweji and Milembo in Chieftainess Kucheka’s area; and
(iii) Manenga, Kambizana, Sachala and Chipopa in Senior Chief Ndungu’s area.
Mr Sinyinda: Madam Speaker, Sakayi, Luvinge, Chikota, Mishivi, Chiseji, Kayimba, Lweji, Milembo, Manenga, Kambizana, Sachala and Chipopa community schools are all supported by the Ministry of Education and other partners like QUEST. The following is being done to address infrastructure construction at the schools:
Name of School Constituency District Response
Sakayi Community Zambezi West Zambezi to increase access, the
School Chief Chinyama’s district office is
area currently constructing
a 1 by 2 classroom
block with the help of
QUEST
Mwange High Zambezi West Zambezi the Government has
School Chief Chinyama’s already allocated
area K400,000,000 for
the construction of a
high school in Chief
Chinyama’s area
called Mwange Day
school
Kambizana Zambezi West Zambezi the district is
Community Chief Ndungu’s constructing a
School area 1 by 2 classroom
block to increase
access
Sachala Zambezi West Zambezi the district is
Community Chief Ndungu’s constructing a
School area 1 by 2 classroom
block to increase
access
Luvinga and Zambezi West Zambezi the district will
Chikota Chief Chinyama’s consider Luvinga
community area and Chikota when
schools funds are made
available
Mishivi, Chiseji, Zambezi West Zambezi the district will
Kayimba, Lweji and Chieftainess consider rehabilitation
Milembo community Kucheka’s area when funds are made
schools available
Manenga and Zambezi West Zambezi the district will
Chipopa community Chief Ndungu’s plan for the
schools area rehabilitation when
funds are made available.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Kakoma: Madam Speaker, the question was specific. It was asking when the Government would construct basic schools. The hon. Minister, in his response, has been referring to community schools which have been constructed by the locals using mud and poles. I would like to find out the Government’s programme on the construction of basic schools in these areas and not the community schools that have been put up by the villagers. In any case, …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You have asked your question.
Mr Sinyinda: Madam Speaker, I would like to share some information with the hon. Member. While it is true that community schools are built by the communities, we, as the Ministry of Education, support these schools. We are constructing some classrooms and teachers’ houses for these schools. We have even gone to the extent of giving Government-trained teachers to these schools.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sinyinda: I would like to assure the hon. Member that this is a working Government.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Mr Sinyinda: I am sure he knows that in his constituency, just to show that we are doing something, a high school is being constructed. I would like to appeal to him to consult the book that we have provided to all the hon. Members of Parliament because in there, he will read about what we are doing in the constituencies.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
REHABILITATION OF MUNGWI ROAD
461. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Works and Supply whether there were any plans to rehabilitate Mungwi Road in Lusaka to link Lumumba Road to the Lusaka/Mongu Road.
The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has plans to rehabilitate the existing Mungwi Road to link it to the Lusaka/Mongu Road at Situmbeko, as part of the ring road network around Lusaka. The proposed rehabilitation will be carried out under the Lusaka Master Plan 2030. In the meantime, however, the RDA has awarded the contract for carrying out the periodic maintenance of the 16 kilometre road section of Mungwi Road. The works are on-going.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Hamusonde: Madam Speaker, I would like to know why they are waiting for 2030.
Interruptions
The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Madam Speaker, I pity the hon. Member.
Laughter
Mr Mulongoti: He has not heard of the Lusaka Master Plan 2030. Lusaka Master Plan 2030 does not mean that we will wait for 2030. It is called the Lusaka Master Plan 2030. This is for your education.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Laughter
CONSTRUCTION OF HEALTH POSTS IN KANYAMA CONSTITUENCY
462. Colonel Chanda asked the Minister of Health whether the Government had any plans to construct health posts in the following residential areas of Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency:
(i) Linda;
(ii) Bonaventure;
(iii) John Laing;
(iv) Chibolya; and
(v) Chinika.
The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Akakandelwa): Madam Speaker, Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency already has two health facilities. These are Kanyama West Health Post and Kanyama Referral Health Centre. There are plans to upgrade Kanyama Referral Health Centre to a first level hospital in the 2009 Budget. As a result, Kanyama Referral Health Centre will benefit from the construction of a theatre and maternity wing this year, 2009.
Madam Speaker, in 2008, there were developmental activities at Kanyama West. These included the construction of a health post and security wall fence. Through the existing referral system, Kanyama residents access University Teaching Hospital (UTH) services.
Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Health recognises the need to provide additional health facilities to serve the ever increasing population in the peri-urban areas of Lusaka. However, at present, there are no immediate plans to construct health posts at Linda, Bonaventure, John Laing, Chibolya and Chinika.
I thank you, Madam.
Colonel Chanda: Madam Speaker, in as much as I appreciate the efforts being made to upgrade the referral clinic in Kanyama, is it normal for the people of Linda and Bonaventure compounds to be ferried to the nearest medical centre, which is in Chawama, a distance of 12 kilometres, …
Hon. Government Member: Only?
Colonel Chanda: … on wheelbarrows? Is it fair that they should wait until they are planned for?
Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, it is only yesterday that the hon. Minister talked about referral facilities and ambulances in Lusaka. There are also plans to introduce another nine ambulances. This was made clear in this House yesterday. These are the facilities that the people of Linda can access.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Ms Kapata: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the ministry has no plans to construct any health posts. Only yesterday, the hon. Minister said they were trying to improve most of the health posts so that UTH could be decongested. Can the hon. Minister tell this nation why, forty-five years after independence, we are still relying on one referral hospital in Lusaka? When are you going to construct a bigger hospital so that our people can access proper health services?
The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member who has asked this question is a former nurse.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: She understands the way health facilities are lined up. This town does not have a first or second level hospital. It has a tertiary third level hospital. We did explain that we are upgrading five clinics to first level hospitals.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: One of the clinics to be upgraded is Chipata Clinic, which is in her constituency. We are a building a second level hospital, which is a general hospital, in Chainama, starting this September.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: This means that Lusaka will have about seven hospitals, two tertiary hospitals, one general hospital and five first level hospitals. Therefore, I do not understand where the problem is with the hon. Member.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
AUDITING OF AUDITOR-GENERAL’S OFFICE
463. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice:
(a) when the Auditor-General’s Office was last audited;
(b) which audit firm undertook the exercise;
(c) where the report of the audit undertaken at (a) was ; and
(d) when the next audit would be undertaken.
Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Auditor-General’s Office was last audited in 2008. The current legislation provides that the Auditor-General is the only one authorised to audit the use of public funds and the Office of the Auditor-General receives public funds. Therefore, the Auditor-General is the auditor. Furthermore, the Auditor-General appoints staff within the office to audit the books of accounts for the Auditor-General’s Office.
Madam Speaker, the Auditor-General carries out audits on various institutions and issues a report as a result of the audits. However, not all institutions audited appear in the report to Parliament. Only issues which are serious and where the controlling officer has failed to provide satisfactory explanations get included in the Auditor-General’s Report. As for the report on the Office of the Auditor-General, the issues raised did not merit such an action.
Madam Speaker, the House will recall that in 2007, the controlling officer had appeared before the Committees on Estimates and the Public Accounts Committee to answer to queries raised in the Auditor-Generals Report on the excess expenditure. The next audit will be undertaken in the second quarter beginning April, 2009.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Madam Speaker, given the understanding that the Auditor-General Office audits itself, does His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice think that this is the right way to go, that the guard should guard himself?
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, currently Article 121 of the Constitution of Zambia provides that the Auditor-General is the only officer empowered to audit books of accounts for the Government and public funds generally. That is the legal position.
As regards to whether this is the ideal situation is a matter which we are discussing at the National Constitutional Conference. Remedies can be provided through that process.
I thank you, Madam Speaker
Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister stated that there was some over expenditure which was discovered in the Auditor-General Office. Since the Auditor-General insists that action should be taken against over spending ministries, may I know what action was taken against the Office of the Auditor-General in that regard?
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, the situation given in the answer occurred in 2007 when an officer from that office appeared before the committee. Whatever transpired is part of the records of the National Assembly. If the hon. Member wants that information, he can get it from those records. Appearing before the committee is a process of correcting the situation. It is therefore the committee’s responsibility to suggest action. That is the excess expenditure that the hon. Member is talking about.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwanza (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister had indicated that the Auditor-General is the only one mandated to audit Government accounts. Previously, all Government auditors that joined the Office of the Auditor-General regardless of their qualifications were taken to NIPA to do a Government auditing and accounting course so as to allow them to better understand accounts procedures.
Mr Magande: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwanza: I would like to find from him whether and when they are going to resume these classes which stopped eight years ago.
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, at the moment, I do not have those details. If the hon. Member wishes to be given a proper answer, please, let him bring it before the House as a new question.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
EDUCATION IN MANDEVU PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY
464. Ms Kapata asked the Minister of Education:
(a) when commercial subjects such as book-keeping and office practice would be introduced at Ng’ombe Basic School in Mandevu Parliamentary Constituency; and
(b) when teachers in Mandevu Parliamentary Constituency would be paid the following:
(i) double session allowances; and
(ii) leave pay.
Mr Sinyinda: I wish to inform this House that book keeping and office practice are part of the approved curriculum and there offered as options in schools. Double session allowances are claimable and are being paid accordingly.
As regards leave pay, the ministry has continued to pay teachers who qualify for it. However, they may be teachers who have not yet been paid. Those affected will be paid as soon as the ministry continues to clear all personal emoluments related arrears.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Ms Kapata: Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister is saying that it is part of the curriculum to teach commercial subjects, why is it that Ng’ombe Basic School in particular, does not offer those subjects. I also want to find out the Government’s policy regarding the upgrading of a primary school into a basic school. What is expected to go with it?
Mr Sinyinda: Madam Speaker, although hon. Kambwili does not believe that the hon. Member for Mandevu is my former student…
Laughter
Mr Sinyinda:…, I would like to say that what happens is dependent upon the schools itself. If Ng’ombe Basic School would like to have these subjects as optional subjects, they are free to do so. It is not the Ministry of Education which should dictate to schools on which optional subjects should be given to pupils.
Secondly, I wish to inform the House that there various considerations like the in the area population and whether the school has enough teachers. There are many other things must be considered.
I thank You, Madam Speaker.
Laughter
REHABILITATION OF LOCAL COURT BUILDINGS IN KANCHIBIYA
465. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Vice-President and Minster of Justice when the following local court buildings in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated:
(a) Chief Luchembe;
(b) Chief Mpepo;
(c) Chief Kabinga;
(d) Senior Chief Kopa; and
(e) Chief Chiundaponde.
Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of court buildings at chiefs Luchembe, Mpepo, Kabinga, Senior Chief Kopa and Chief Chiundaponde in Kanchibiya Constituency will be done when and as funds become available.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwango: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that local court sessions are being held under trees and if he is, when does this Government intend to ensure that these sessions are held in decent places?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Point!
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, we attend to the rehabilitation of court rooms every year, including the construction of local courts. The hon. Member must follow the budgeting process closely and bring some of these things to our attention so that we can factor them into the budget. Otherwise, we have taken note of what he has said.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned in his answer that the rehabilitation works will be done when funds are available. Is the hon. Minister assuring this House that the rehabilitation of these five local courts will be done at one go when the funds are available?
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, I cannot give that kind of assurance. However, I talked about the budgeting process. Please, study the budget and see whatever will be provided in it.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
________
MOTIONS
EXEMPTION OF DISTRICTS THAT GENERATE POWER FROM PAYING WHEELING CHARGES
Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, owing to the technicality in the wording of the motion which may mislead the House during the debate, I seek with the leave of the House to withdraw the motion.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder have any objection to the withdrawal of the motion?
Dr Chishya: No, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Has the House any objection to the withdrawal of the motion?
Hon. Members: No!
Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.
Motion, by leave, accordingly withdrawn.
REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE
Mr Sikota: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential appointments of Honourable Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba and Mr Abyudi James Shonga (junior) to serve as Supreme Court Judge and Solicitor-General of the Republic, respectively for the Third Session of the National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on Monday, 10th August, 2009.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?
Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): I beg to second the Motion, Madam Speaker.
Mr Sikota: Madam, may I start by thanking you for according me the opportunity to present the report of your Committee. The terms of reference of your Committee were to scrutinise the Presidential appointments of Honourable Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba and Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) to serve as Supreme Court Judge and Solicitor-General of the Republic, respectively.
Madam Speaker, from the outset, your Committee was conscious of the fact that the nominees were being proposed to serve in high public offices which require persons of integrity and upright standing in society. With this as the cornerstone of its deliberations, your Committee critically analysed the information at its disposal in ascertaining the suitability of the two nominees to serve in their respective positions.
In its endeavour to ensure that the two nominees did not have any adverse security, criminal, corrupt or indeed drug related traces, your Committee sought expert advice from three security wings of Government namely; the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Zambia Police. Madam, I wish to report to the House that the three security organs cleared both nominees as persons who had not been involved in any criminal activities.
Madam Speaker, your Committee further consulted four independent institutions, namely; the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ), the Judicial Complaints Authority (JCA), the Human Rights Commission (HRC) and Transparency International Zambia (TIZ) on the suitability of the nominees to serve in the positions to which they were being appointed. These institutions supported the nominees as persons who are highly qualified and capable of serving the nation in the noble offices of Supreme Court Judge and Solicitor-General of the Republic.
Furthermore, your Committee had the opportunity of interviewing the two nominees. Madam Speaker, your Committee observed that both nominees understood the functions and challenges of the offices they were being appointed to and more importantly, that the nominees were qualified to serve in their respective positions.
Madam Speaker, allow me to briefly submit on each of the nominees. With regard to Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba, your Committee found that, in addition to her academic and professional qualifications, she possesses the right personal attributes for a Supreme Court Judge.
Mrs Masebo: Hear, hear!
Mr Sikota: Madam Speaker, during the deliberations, it was noted by TIZ that Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba was considered a strict Judge in the legal fraternity. I have personally, on numerous occasions appeared before the nominee, and I can confirm that the nominee is a strict Judge. This, however, is not a negative attribute in the administration of justice by the courts. In fact it would assist to enhance the legal profession generally, if more judges of the calibre of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba were appointed to the Bench. Madam Speaker, I am saying this because this attribute ensures that lawyers present well researched and reasoned cases before the court.
Madam Speaker, with regard to Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior), your Committee observed that, as the second law officer of the State, who assists the Attorney-General, the Office of Solicitor-General requires a well qualified and competent legal practitioner. Your Committee found that Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) has a sharp legal mind and is qualified in many respects to diligently discharge the functions of Solicitor-General of the Republic.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Sikota: Madam Speaker, I have witnessed Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) in action, as I have argued a number of cases with him. My recollection of the nominee goes as far back to the time when the late Mr Shamwana presented him for his first Supreme Court appeal. Despite him being new, Mr Shonga won that first Supreme Court appeal matter of his. Since then, the nominee has executed his work diligently and presents well researched arguments at all times.
Madam Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee did not find any information against the suitability of the nominees to be appointed to their respective positions. Therefore, your Committee recommend to this august House to ratify the appointments of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba and Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) to serve the nation in the noble offices of Supreme Court Judge and Solicitor-General of the Republic, respectively.
Finally, Madam Speaker, your Committee wish to put on record their gratitude for the services rendered to them by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly. Above all, they wish to express their appreciation to the hon. Mr Speaker, for appointing them to serve on this Select Committee. Your Committee are equally grateful to all the witnesses who appeared before them and provided valuable information that assisted your Committee in making an informed recommendation to this House.
Madam Speaker, I beg to move.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?
Mr V. Mwale: Now, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to second the Motion before the House. I note that the mover of the Motion has ably addressed the pertinent issues that are in your Committee’s report. I also do believe that hon. Members have had an opportunity to read through the report of your Committee. Therefore, I will be brief in seconding the Motion on the Floor.
Madam Speaker, in support of the Chairperson who has moved the Motion so well, allow me, from the outset, to state that the appointees under consideration by this august House are of integrity, mature, experienced and qualified to serve in the positions to which they are being appointed. The appointees’ curriculum vitaes, as shown in your Committee’s report, speak highly of their experience and competence to serve in their respective positions.
May I highlight some of the issues on each of the appointees which caught the attention of your Committee. With regard to Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba, your Committee were pleased to hear from some witnesses who appeared before it that Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba, as a High Court Judge, had expeditiously dealt with her cases and ensured that her judgements were well reasoned.
Your Committee also observed that the appointee is of mature age and experience, as she rose from being a resident magistrate to a Puisne Judge and is currently acting as Judge of the Supreme Court. The appointment of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba is not only appropriate, but also timely.
Madam Speaker, your Committee were also informed that Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba had performed well in her duties as a High Court Judge and as Acting Judge of the Supreme Court. Therefore, your Committee have no doubt that she will satisfactorily perform the duties of a Supreme Court Judge. I personally support her appointment in the strongest possible manner and I urge …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr V. Mwale: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that I personally support the appointment of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba in the strongest possible manner and urged this House to do the same.
Madam Speaker, as for Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) who has been appointed to serve as Solicitor-General of the Republic, your Committee found him highly suitable for the position. Since his admission to the bar in December, 1993, Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) has been actively involved as a legal practitioner for more than fifteen years in private practice under Shamwana and Company.
Madam Speaker, it may please this House that recently, Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) was appointed to serve as a commissioner of the Small Claims Court. In short, what I am advancing is that Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) is suitably qualified in many respects and I have no doubt that he will diligently discharge the functions of Solicitor-General of the Republic of Zambia.
Therefore, Madam Speaker, my appeal to this august House is to support the noble appointments of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba and Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) to serve as Supreme Court judge and Solicitor-General of the Republic of Zambia, respectively.
Finally, Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the able and fair manner in which he handled the business of your Committee. My gratitude also goes to the rest of the hon. Members of your Committee for the unity expressed in supporting the Presidential appointments of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba as Supreme Court Judge and Mr Abyudi James Shonga (Junior) as Solicitor-General of the Republic of Zambia.
Madam Speaker, I will end by urging this august House to support the Motion on the Floor. With these few remarks, I second the Motion.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I rise to support the appointment or elevation of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba to the Supreme Court Bench. In so doing, I am using my experience because I worked with Madam Justice Chibomba when I was Solicitor-General in the Government and in 1993 when she was serving under me as Principal State Advocate in charge of International Law and Treaties.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: In the performance of her job, she excelled, hence her elevation to be Puisne Judge of the High Court.
Madam Speaker, in further supporting the appointment, I would like to add that Madam Justice Chibomba will add value to the Supreme Court Bench. She will add value because she is experienced in handling commercial law cases. It is important that the composition of judges at the superior courts should be made of people with experience in various disciplines of law. In this regard, therefore, she will not only be an asset but, I think, a pillar to lean on when it comes to meting out good judgements.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: In this direction, I wish to state without hesitation that she has a legal brain and that is what it takes to be a good judge. It is not a chain of qualifications, but it is the ability to understand and interpret the law coupled with a sense of justice and fairness, attributes which she has.
Madam Speaker, I would also like to support the appointment of Mr Shonga to be Solicitor-General of Zambia. Mr Shonga is eminently qualified, brilliant, researches and has a complete grasp and understanding of the law. He will definitely be an asset when it comes to giving proper legal advice. However, in supporting the appointment may, I sound a word of warning because, in recent times, it has become fashionable for lawyers who are advisors to the Government to be issuing statements relating to opinions which they render to their clients. My advice is that, as we consider the ratification of Mr Shonga, he should bear in mind that the Government is his client …
Hon. Government Member: Yes.
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: … and since the Government is his client, he must, at all times, maintain confidentiality relating to the advice he gives to his client.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them.
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I become worried when I see advisors to the Government coming up with statements which amount to disclosing confidential information. That is a taboo.
Hon. Government Members: Hammer!
Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Madam Speaker, with these few words, I wholeheartedly support the appointment.
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me this chance to debate. As you know, I am not a lawyer, …
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka: … but a pragmatist. In the last five years, I have spent a lot of time in the High Courts of Zambia, specifically dealing with the defence of the voiceless poor people of Zambia.
Hon. Opposition Member: The vulnerable.
Major Chizhyuka: The vulnerable Zambians who are under siege. As a result of my time there, it has been possible for me to come to grips with some of the tenets of the Justice System of our country. It has given me an opportunity to understand the nominees and I want to state that from that experience that I have gathered, I wish to support both nominees in their various positions.
Madam Speaker, what I want to deal with is the aspect of the time factor in the scrutiny of these nominees that come to our Parliament. Allow me to read just a few paragraphs from the report. The Law Association of Zambia (LAZ), on page 7 of the report, submitted that there was need to set high standards in the Judiciary so as to ensure that only persons of high integrity were appointed to the Bench. The critical word there is critical analysis. On the time factor, LAZ submitted that the association needed to be given adequate time to scrutinise presidential appointments so as to enable them read and analyse the judgements of the appointee in order to thoroughly contribute on the suitability of the nominee.
At page 3, right at the top, the Acting Director General of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) informed your Committee that because of the short notice that was given to the commission to submit the background information on the nominees, no thorough investigations were carried out, meaning the key security vetters are stating that they had very little time to arrive at a correct submission to Mr Speaker. Further, the Acting Director-General submitted that the three days period that the commission was given to provide information on the nominees was inadequate because incidences occurred in the Republic where key officers required to work on the submission were out of station. She advised that a period of one week would be sufficient for the commission to make a thorough investigation. Zambia Police Force, when asked whether there was sufficient time, on the same page, stated that in circumstances where some suspicion existed on a particular nominee, the International Police were engaged and results would be obtained almost immediately. They did not do that because they had insufficient time.
Madam Speaker, the Drug Enforcement Commission at page 4, right on top, on the question as to whether the time given to the commission to provide background information on the nominees was adequate, stated that the time was not a factor as they had their records in order. However, in the last paragraph, they conceded that in some cases the commission did not have information on an individual even where such a person may have been involved in drug related offences which means if they had time they would have been able to investigate further.
The Human Rights Commission submitted that in the case of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba that it had not consulted the Judicial Complaints Authority due to time constraints.
I was reading those excerpts just to show that the aspect of this august Assembly ratifying a nomination has a time component to it. It is important that sufficient time is given not only to the parliamentary processes but also to the witnesses in order that we may arrive at correct decisions as this House is scruitnising the nominees.
Madam Speaker, this has been the busiest session for me ever since I got into this Parliament in 2006 with thirteen Bills and this issue of the time aspect has been mentioned by one former Chairperson, I think Hon. Muyanda, when he stated that there was need to relook at the amount of time that is given to the scrutiny and preparation of bills.
As we are amending the Budget cycle, would it not be wise to also re-look at the aspect of time taken to scrutinise names brought for ratification? If the time is too short, we might do a quick job and at the end of it all discover that because we did not do a thorough search and did not, for instance, involve the police beyond the borders to deal with specific witnesses, we overlooked certain issues and this House would be disappointed.
Madam Speaker, it is my recommendation that as we proceed to make amendments to the procedures of Parliament, we should also look at according sufficient time to deal not only with Bills, but matters related to the scrutiny of nominees. What is the value of a scrutiny if it is timed badly? What is the use of the approval of this House if the key investigative organs are not given sufficient time to capacitate them to go out there and find out whether there are any follies in the characters and conduct of the nominee. I think, in the future, we should look at dealing with the aspect of time so that as this Parliament ratifies a name, hon. Members are sure that they would have done a good job at the end of the day.
Madam Speaker, that is my submission and I thank you.
The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Livestock and Fisheries) (Mr Machila): Madam Speaker, I would like to commend the Committee, mover and seconder of the Motion on a job very well done in scrutinising these appointments. It is gratifying to be a part of this ratification process of these important nominees to both the Supreme Court and the Office of the Solicitor-General.
Madam Speaker, we expect that both of them will uphold the tradition of blind justice and fidelity to the law as it is written. It has already been stated that both candidates are eminently and suitably qualified for their respective appointments. With regards to the appointment of the Solicitor-General, I would like to state that Mr Shonga was arguably trained by the best litigation lawyer that Zambia has ever produced, that being the late Edward Jack Shamwana, SC. I am certain that if some of the skills he learnt under the tutelage of the late Jack Shamwana have rubbed off on him, he will, certainly, be a benefit both to the Ministry of Justice and the national at large. It is pleasing to see successful legal practitioners from private practice cross over to serve in public office.
Madam Speaker, with regards to the appointment to the Supreme Court of Justice Hildah Chibomba, I have noted the comments that were made by Hon. Chizhyuka. However, I would like to assure him that in terms of the existing procedure, her process of confirmation has been no different to that which we just witnessed for Judge Sotomayor to the Supreme Court in the United States. We have done the equivalent process here and notwithstanding the reservations in the report, it still remains that she is definitely the most suitable candidate for this position.
Madam Speaker, it is further gratifying to see women ascend to such offices not merely because they are women, but because they are hardworking, competent, compassionate …
Hon. Female Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Machila: … and deserving of the elevation that is being done here.
Madam Speaker, with those few words, I wholeheartedly endorse these nominees and I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I want to commend the Committee for its report and the able manner in which the chairperson has moved the Motion, which was seconded by the youthful hon. Member of Parliament on my right.
Madam Speaker, I support the recommendations of the Committee and it is …
Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Major Chizhyuka: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me to raise this point of order. I have no intention of disturbing my brother on the Floor with whom we share the same blood from the Bantu Botatwe. Was the previous debater, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Livestock and Fisheries) and acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, in order not to mention that with regard to Judge Sotomayor of the United States, a period of three months scrutiny was undertaken as opposed to the one week …
Mr Kakoma: Three days.
Major Chizhyuka: … in fact, three days, which was accorded in our case? Just for the record, is he in order not to mention that?
Madam Deputy Speaker: In fact the hon. Member who has raised the point of order is not in order himself …
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: ... because a point of order, if it is truly procedural, is raised on the person who has not followed procedure. However, one would surely conclude that the hon. Member who has raised a point of order is the one who took that line and is, therefore, not in order to raise the point that he wants to bring belatedly.
The hon. Member for Katuba may continue.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, it is really heartening to note that women of excellence are now able to rise to positions of influence. I note that after the appointment of her Ladyship Hon. Mambilima to be the Deputy Chief Justice, we are now having more women on the Supreme Court bench. I also note that we have my mother, Hon. Justice Chibesakunda, and now her Ladyship Hildah Chibomba joining the Bench. I, therefore, say congratulations to the women of this country because we have some women who have really worked hard, not through shortcuts, but through excellence, which everybody is able to see and that is the way it should be.
I am one of those who believe that when we talk about gender equality, we are not talking about advancing women, but about offering equal opportunities to both males and females. Therefore, women should rise to the challenge and compete and even beat men in terms of excelling in careers and not through shortcuts. So, to me …
Ms Cifire: Who has taken shortcuts?
Mr Shakafuswa: Angela Cifire.
Laughter
Mr Shakafuswa: I am very grateful that we are able to put to the fore women of excellence like her Ladyship Chibomba and I wholly support her appointment as Supreme Court Judge.
Ms Changwe: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, I also want to laud the appointment of Abyudi James Shonga as the Solicitor-General of the Republic of Zambia. I remember Abyudi as a young boy who came to the University of Zambia campus when I was in my third year. From that time to-date, I think, he has made tremendous success in his career. He is a man who is very solicitous and, in my opinion, his name has come at the right time for this appointment. This is because he deserves that position although I know this is the second time that his name has come up for consideration. Therefore, it shows that Abyudi James Shonga qualifies to be Solicitor-General of this country.
Madam Speaker, I would also want to congratulate the past Solicitor-General, Mr Dominic Sichinga, a young man of outstanding character and who has now been appointed Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Communications and Transport. I think he has left his mark on the history of this country as a person who, despite pressure, was able to stand his ground and give the Government good advice.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, as has been stated, the work of the Solicitor-General as well as the Attorney-General is advisory to the client. It is up to the client to take or reject the advice given to them.
Madam Speaker, we have had some questionable decisions which have been made by solicitor-generals in the Ministry of Justice regarding litigation against the Government. For instance, if you have a weak Solicitor-General and staff at the Ministry of Justice, your government could ground to a halt. This is because whilst the nation is busy looking for monies to move the development agenda, the Ministry of Justice is allowing litigations against the Government which take a lot of money out of the national Treasury. The only guards, which act as the goal keepers, we have to guard our country, are the Solicitor-General, the Attorney-General and the entire Ministry of Justice. If the Ministry of Justice makes its screws loose, the Government will, instead of concentrating on the developmental agenda, lose billions of Kwacha because of spending so much money on paying litigations.
Madam Speaker, I have known the Solicitor-General to be a no-nonsense person. Therefore, I would urge him, as he takes his position, to look at some of the judgments which the Government has against itself, judgments which are statute bad. These judgments have been allowed in courts of law and have been entered against the state in the High and Supreme courts. This should not have been in the first place because according to law, there is a certain period in which litigations can be brought against anyone or against the State. We have seen litigations which went through because someone in the Ministry of Justice did not do his or her work. I am aware of one judgment of about US$77 million, against the State, which was not supposed to be passed. It so happened that some expatriates who worked in this country a long time ago where advised by somebody to make money off the Zambian State. It was allowed, including judgements and we are now to pay this money back to second parties. For security’s sake, I will not dwell much on this issue. However, it is an example of a judgement that was statute bad.
Madam Speaker, the defence of judgements against the State depend on the person who is the office of the Solicitor-General.
Madam Speaker, much as we can allow these questionable consent judgment, we should know that this is a cost to the State. There are some judgments that have been entered into, which at the end of the day could have been challenged in the courts of law. I, therefore, urge the youthful Solicitor-General, Abyudi James Shonga, through the Ministry of Justice, to stand up and defend the Government and save money that can help to alleviate poverty. If the Ministry of Justice can defend the state and in turn help it to save money, we will have more money channeled towards developmental programmes than to compensations and awards.
Madam Speaker, the money given out as compensations and awards is usually a huge chunk. If we can have hardworking people at the Ministry of Justice starting from the hon. Minister up to the root level, we will defend and save huge sums of money for this country.
Madam Speaker, from the way I have known James Abyudi Shonga, I have no problems in supporting him as Solicitor-General. He will be able to do a good job.
I, therefore, urge this House to ratify the appointment of ladyship Justice Hildah Chibomba as Supreme Court Judge and Abyudi James Shonga as Solicitor-General for this country.
I thank you, Madam.
The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, I wish to support the appointment of Madam Justice Hildah Chibomba as Supreme Court Judge and Abyudi James Shonga as Solicitor-General for Zambia.
As the Committee report indicates, Judge Hildah Chibomba is highly qualified and her curriculum vitae (CV) has shown that she is a highly qualified and experienced judge. An observation that she was a strict judge was made. I wish to confirm that, indeed, she is a strict judge, which is not a negative attribute, but a positive one. When Judges are strict, they will not allow lawyers to just go to court and get judgments at will.
Madam Speaker, I recall an experience where, with a colleague, we agreed that we would enter into a consent judgment. When we got to the court, we tried to give her a future date on which we would sign a consent judgment, but the Judge’s view was that since we had agreed, she would wait for us to give her the consent judgment even if it took a whole day. She was aware of the fact that it was habitual for lawyers to agree at first, but immediately start arguing upon reaching outside. In fact, that is what happened because my colleague was trying to look for other paragraphs to add on to what would have been our consent to order.
However, due to her strict order that we had to come up with that proposed consent order, we ended up coming up with some agreement and that consent order was signed and the case was concluded. We need judges like her who are strict. Those who will not allow lawyers to go to court to try and buy time.
This takes me to a point of delayed judgments. Time and again, our people have accused judges for delaying the delivery of judgments, but what should be appreciated is that there are a lot of players. You have judges who want to proceed with cases, but you find that a lawyer is ill-prepared. He or she, instead, starts asking for adjournments or, indeed, sometimes it is a problem of availability of witnesses.
Madam Speaker, I have no doubt that we will benefit from her vast experience having worked for, at least, twenty-seven years. Furthermore, this is not her first promotion. When she was a Resident Magistrate, she was promoted to a Senior Resident Magistrate. When she joined the Ministry of Legal Affairs as Assistant Senior State Advocate, she was elevated to be a Principal State Advocate and, now, Judge of the High Court and Acting Supreme Court Judge. What should surprise us when she gets the position of Supreme Court Judge? She is getting this position not because of gender equality as we might think. I want to emphasise that it is not a matter of gender, but that she is highly qualified. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to our women folk to work hard. These are the role models we should be looking up. They should realise that with hard work, the sky is the limit.
As for the Solicitor-General, I agree with all that has been said about him that he is a highly qualified lawyer with fifteen years experience. I have no doubt that he will do a good job. I was particularly delighted to see the number of cases he handled in the Supreme Court. Many of them are very important cases, especially on employment law in this country. As a practitioner, myself, I benefited from using the cases he argued as authorities. As a ministry, we have greatly benefited by this appointment, which I note, has received a lot of support.
Before I conclude, I just want to assure hon. Members that there is a process to be followed before a consent judgment is signed. It is not a question of a single lawyer coming up with a consent judgment. We believe that if our citizens have good cases which deserve consent judgements, then consent judgments will continue being signed. It is not a question of arguing every case in court. Some cases can be settled if there is merit.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sikota: Madam, I would like to thank the seconder of the Motion for seconding it very well. I would also like to thank the other five hon. Members who contributed. It is obvious that the judgement of this House is unanimous. There was no dissenting judgement as to whether or not these people should be ratified.
On the question of dissenting judgements, I hope that Her Ladyship, Justice Chibomba, will write dissenting judgments where necessary.
With these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Question put and agreed to.
__________
BILLS
HOUSE IN COMMITTEE
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2009
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Chairperson, I seek your indulgence to defer consideration of this Bill to a later date to facilitate consultations on issues raised by your Committee during consideration of the Bill.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili: Long live Kunda.
Laughter
Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.
The consideration of the Bill, by leave, accordingly deferred.
THE SERVICE COMMISSIONS (Amendment) BILL, 2009
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, I, again, seek your indulgence to defer consideration of this Bill to a later date to facilitate consultations on issues which have arisen in our debates on this Bill.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili: Long live George.
Laughter
Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.
The consideration of the Bill, by leave, accordingly deferred.
HOUSE RESUMED
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
The following Bills were reported to the House as having been deferred:
The Local Government (Amendment) Bill, 2009
The Service Commissions (Amendment) Bill, 2009
REPORT STAGE
The Public-Private Partnership Bill, 2009
Report adopted.
Third Reading on Thursday, 13th August, 2009.
THIRD READING
The following Bill was read the third time and passed:
The Health Professions Bill, 2009.
THE CONSTITUTION OF ZAMBIA (Amendment) Bill, 2009
Question that the Bill be now read the third time put and the House voted.
Ayes – (110)
Mr Akakandelwa
Mr A. Banda
Mr C. K. B. Banda
Mr I. Banda
Mr R. C .Banda
Mr Beene
Mr Bwalya
Colonel Chanda
Mr Chanda
Ms Changwe
Mr Chella
Mr Chibombamilimo
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chinyanta
Mr Chisala
Mr Chisanga
Dr Chishya
Ms Chitika
Mr Chitonge
Dr Chituwo
Major Chizhyuka
Mr Chongo
Mr Chota
Ms Cifire
Mr Daka
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Hamududu
Mr Imasiku
Ms Imbwae
Mr Kachimba
Mr Kaingu
Mr Kakoma
Mr Kakusa
Dr Kalila
Dr Kalumba
Mr Kambwili
Mr Kapeya
Ms Kapwepwe
Mr Kasoko
Mr Kasongo
Dr Katema
Mr Katuka
Dr Kazonga
Mr Konga
Mr Kunda
Mr Liato
Ms Limata
Mr Lubinda
Ms Lundwe
Professor Lungwangwa
Mr Mabenga
Mr Machila
Dr Machungwa
Mr Magande
Mr Malwa
Mrs Masebo
Mr Matongo
Mr Mbewe
Mr Mbulakulima
Mr Misapa
Mr Mooya
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr C. Mulenga
Mr L. P. J. Mulenga
Mr Mulonga
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Mulyata
Mr Munaile
Mr Muntanga
Mrs Musokotwane
Mr Mutati
Mr Muteteka
Mr Mwaanga
Mr M. B. Mwale
Mr V. Mwale
Mr Mwangala
Mr Mwango
Mr Mwanza
Mr Mwapela
Mr Mwenya
Mr B.Y. Mwila
Mrs Nalumango
Mr Namulambe
Mr Ndalamei
Mr Ngoma
Mr Nkhata
Mr Nkombo
Mr Ntundu
Mr Nyirenda
Professor Phiri
Reverend Sampa-Bredt
Mr Sejani
Mr Shakafuswa
Mr Shawa
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sikazwe
Mr Sikota
Mr Silavwe
Ms Siliya
Mr Simama
Mr Simbao
Mr. Simuusa
Mr Sing’ombe
Mrs Sinyangwe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr Syakalima
Mr Tembo
Noes – (0)
Abstentions – (02)
Mr Chimbaka
Ms Mwape
Question accordingly agreed to, with more than two-thirds of all the Members voting in the affirmative, and the Bill read the third time and passed.
______
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
Question put and agreed to.
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The House adjourned at 1724 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 13th August, 2009.