Debates- Thursday, 29th July, 2010

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Thursday, 29th July, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours







The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Madam Speaker, you may recall that on the 15th March, 2010, I informed this House and the nation at large that Zambia would be participating in the 15th Conference of the Parties to the Convention in International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) that was to take place from the 13th to 25th March, 2010, in Doha, Qatar.

Having led the Zambian delegation to the conference, I have the honour, Madam Speaker, to report back on the outcome of the conference with specific reference to Zambia’s proposal to down-list its elephant population for purposes of commercial utilisation. 

Madam Speaker, before I present the outcome of the conference, allow me to give the hon. Members of this House a brief background of the objectives of CITES and the national level processes that were followed before our proposal was presented to the conference of the parties. The main objective of the convention is to promote effective conservation of the world’s endangered species of wild plants and animals by regulating international trade in these species. As a State party to the convention, Zambia has an obligation to comply with the requirements of CITES both by the implementation of the convention and by further enacting legislation to domesticate its provisions.

Madam Speaker, this House may recall that the 15th Conference of the Parties of CITES was of particular significance to Zambia because the countries submitted a proposal to down-list its elephant population from Appendix I to Appendix II. According to the convention’s criteria for listing, Appendix I listing means that the species is threatened with extinction and, therefore, no commercial activities relating to the species can be engaged in. Appendix II listing, on the other hand, signifies that the population of the species is sustainable and can be exploited for commercial use.

As stated in my previous address, the justification for Zambia’s proposal was promised on the growth trends of the elephant population in Zambia between 1980 and 2008. During this period, the elephant population increased from around 20,000 in the early 1980s to the current level of 27,000. This represented a significant increase that also triggered the much-talked about human-elephant conflict. The increase further implied that the elephant population in Zambia no longer makes the criteria for Appendix I listing.

Madam Speaker, the House was further informed that the elephant populations of Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe were in Appendix II and, therefore, available for commercial utilisation. It is interesting to note, however, that most of the elephant population in Zambia is shared with other neighbouring countries, including the ones I have mentioned. This situation is deemed irregular as the same elephant population is open to commercial exploitation when it crosses into our neighbouring countries, but  not when in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, you may also recall that I informed this House of the decision that was taken during the 14th Conference of the Parties of CITES held in The Hague in the Netherlands in 2007, where an annotation was adopted to rest elephant ivory trade for nine years. This annotation, however, did not apply to any other elephant range State other than the states of Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe. 

Madam, I wish to inform the House that the necessary processes were followed prior to the submission of our proposal. The panel of experts of the convention reviewed Zambia’s preparedness to down list her elephant population from Appendix I to Appendix II, based on scientific facts. The report of experts commended Zambia with regard to the following:

(i)    improvements made on the status of the elephant population;

(ii)    control and effective implementation of law enforcement; and 

(iii)    sustainability of the total levels of off-takes and management of the ivory stock pile. 

The report, on the other hand, raised areas of concern regarding high illegal off-takes in the Lower Zambezi area and inadequate resource allocation for monitoring the elephant population at the national level. Based on the report of the panel of experts, the CITES Secretariat recommended the adoption of Zambia’s proposal to the State parties. The CITES Secretariat noted that the elephant population in Zambia did not meet the biological criteria to be in Appendix I.

Madam Speaker, I wish to report to this House that Zambia’s proposal to down list its elephant population from Appendix I to Appendix II was rejected by the parties to the CITES despite the favourable recommendations that were based on scientific assessment by both the panel of experts and the CITES Secretariat. Zambia, therefore, failed to garner the two-thirds majority vote required for the proposal to go through. The main reason for the rejection was the misunderstandings surrounding the decision passed at the 14th Conference of Parties that adopted an annotation to impose a nine-year moratorium on trade in ivory. Therefore, some delegates, for reasons based known to themselves, chose to deliberately extend the moratorium to Zambia when this was not the spirit of the decision.

Madam, allow me to present the main implications of the rejection of our proposal:

(i)    the Zambian elephant population still remains in CITES in Appendix I listing which implies that the country will not be permitted to commercially trade in raw hides, live animals and ivory to selected destinations;

(ii)    the international ban will constrain the country’s capacity to raise additional resources for conservation and enhancement of rural community livelihoods;

(iii)    Zambia will not realise revenue that could have come from a one-off sell of the ivory stock pile currently at Chilanga, but we will continue to incur costs for storage of the ivory; and

(iv)    trade in hunting trophies as personal effects in Zambia is already permitted with the current status of our elephant population being in Appendix I of CITES. This means that the export of trophy ivory from hunted elephants in Zambia requires issuance of an import permit by the importing country before Zambia can issue an export permit. This was not going to be the case had our elephant population been in Appendix II where the issuance of an export permit would be the only requirement.

Therefore, utilisation of the fixed quota will continue to be underutilised because countries such as the United States of America (USA), which incidentally has the most trophy hunters, has stricter domestic legislation than that enforced by CITES. The USA does not accept the import of trophies from an Appendix I population. 

Madam Speaker, my submission would be incomplete without informing this House about my ministry’s next course of action, given that Zambia, as a Sovereign State, still has the right to re-submit the proposal to the next 16th Conference of Parties that is scheduled to take place in Bangkok, Thailand in 2013. 

In order to increase the chances for favourable considerations of our re-submission, my ministry intends to undertake the following:

(i)    enhance law enforcement in key elephant-range areas that include the South Luangwa, Kafue, Lower Zambezi and Upper Zambezi, Sioma Ngwezi ecosystems. By so doing, law enforcement, which is currently categorised as ‘good’, will be upgraded to ‘excellent’ as the case is with Botswana;

(ii)    increase funding allocated to the Lower Zambezi National Park to reduce the high levels of illegal off-takes. In this regard, I wish to solicit the support of Members of this House when I present the Ministry’s Budget estimates for the year 2011;

(iii)    use diplomatic channels of foreign missions abroad and engage international and regional groupings such as the European Union (EU), USA, South America and Asian countries to support Zambia’s intentions to down list her elephant population 

It was apparent that Zambia could not achieve the required two-thirds majority vote because of the EU and its member states’ abstentions; 

(iv)    take measures to step up monitoring of the elephant population to control illegal trade and the effectiveness of law enforcement and management of the ivory stockpile;

(v)    produce documentaries to create awareness and demonstrate the improvement of local livelihoods from benefits accrued from wildlife management as well as incidences of human and animal conflict. 

In conclusion, I wish to assure the House that my ministry is determined to step up the efforts to effectively manage the elephant population in order to generate resources required for the improvement of livelihoods of the local communities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon Members may now ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister.  

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister enlighten us, further, on the politics of this business. For instance, I would like to know how many voters there are in CITES and how many of them are our direct competitors in the export of elephant tasks.

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, the 15th Conference of Parties was attended by 174 parties. Although state parties have the right to vote, international non-governmental organisations (NGOs) actively engaged the state parties to lobby against adopting the proposal for Zambia. This is because most of the NGOs do not appreciate the need for sustainable utilisation in order to enhance conservation.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, it would have been beneficial to the country if that conference had agreed to downsize the number of elephants because they destroy people’s crops. When will the Government introduce legislation to compensate people whose crops get damaged by elephants?

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, the elephants, like other wildlife, belong to the people of Zambia who derive value therefrom. I do not think that there is anything the Government can provide to adequately compensate for the loss of life, for instance. However, we destroy problem animals and, in such instances, we give the carcass to the family of the person or the community that has been adversely affected.

I thank you, Madam.


Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Madam Speaker, apart from improving the management and resolving the other issues raised by the parties at the CITES on the down listing of Zambia’s Appendix, what will the Government do, should the international NGOs with ulterior motives continue to block Zambia’s bid for Appendix II?

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, Zambia met the criteria to down list its elephant population from Appendix I to II. We are also aware that there is a need for us to lobby more, engage other parties diplomatically and, as Zambians, collectively highlight issues of wildlife-human conflict. There is also a need to show that the country needs to raise revenue from sustainable utilisation of wildlife in order to conserve it because conservation and sustainable utilisation complement each other. 

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that we could not marshal the two-thirds majority vote. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how much support Zambia got from fellow African countries.

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, it was unfortunate that Africa was divided on the two proposals for Zambia and Tanzania. Nonetheless, the entire SADC region supported Zambia’s proposal. In addition, China and Japan strongly supported Zambia. However, there was a group of African states, which called itself the African Elephant Coalition and was led by Kenya, which strongly opposed the two proposals. 

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, of the 174 parties that attended the convention, how many countries did we lobby? I would also like to know how many countries we lobbied, but did not support us.

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, we lobbied the countries that have representation in Zambia and other countries. The EU did not vote against us, but did not vote for us either because, if their organisation does not strongly agree, as a group, they decide to abstain. This is what happened, but we did enough lobbying.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, since we know the countries that voted against this proposal, what strategy have we come up with to ensure that we target them so that they can vote for us in 2013?

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, as SADC, we have agreed that we are going to raise this issue at the African Union (AU) level because most of the elephants are in the SADC region. You may be interested in knowing that some of the countries that opposed Zambia and Tanzania’s proposals have no elephants at all. One of the countries only had one elephant although …


Ms Namugala: … it loudly opposed the two proposals. Therefore, we intend to aggressively lobby for the down listing because we know that most of the elephants are in the SADC region.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, it saddens me to hear that elephants cross into Zimbabwe and Botswana from Zambia. How sure are we that these elephants will not be hunted, once they cross into the two countries and if this is done repetitively, in the end, will the Zambian population of elephants not reduce?

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, that is one of the arguments that we used because, as you know, wildlife crosses borders. Since the South African, Zimbabwean, Botswana and Namibian elephants fall under Appendix II, it follows that when a Zambian elephant crosses into any of these countries, it can be hunted because it cab be assumed to be an elephant from that particular country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Madam Speaker, is it not possible for us to befriend the country that has only one elephant so that it buys the elephants from us? If they cannot allow us to kill them, we should, at least sell the elephants to them.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Discuss quietly.

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, in fact, this elephant died while we were in Qatar.


Ms Namugala: Therefore, this particular country does not have any elephants at the moment. We do not want to be divided by the politics of CITES. We hope that, through the AU, we will be able to get more support from the African countries. 

Madam, allow me to also inform this august House that CITES only deals with international trade in endangered species. I notice that the hon. Member for Katombola is wearing an ivory bangle. If she goes outside the country with that ivory bangle, she will be arrested.


Ms Namugala: I suggest that all those who have ivory ornaments contact the ministry or the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) in their respective areas.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if there was any Zambian NGO that supported or influenced the other sections of society in Zambia against the sale of the ivory coast …


Mr Sikazwe: Sorry, I meant ivory. 

… in Chilanga because it would allegedly benefit the Government to fundraise for the campaigns reported in the media.

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, it is sad that the debate got to the level of discussing campaigns and the sale of ivory.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, I must stress that there is very little knowledge, beyond the politicians; the hon. Members of Parliament, about the wildlife-human conflict. In areas where the population of elephants is growing, the poverty levels are compounded because, for instance, an old woman or man will try to grow some crops, but the elephants will destroy them. That is why the Government is trying to lobby for support for us to sustainably utilise and conserve wildlife. If the communities do not derive value from wildlife, they will illegally utilise it. It is for this reason the Government needs the support of not only hon. Members of Parliament, but also NGOs so that we can work together to turn wildlife into a resource that can reduce poverty and not be a burden.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, this House operates on facts. Could we know the name of the country that had one elephant and hates Zambia so much?


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, as a country, we have diplomatic relations with this country. I would like to ask the hon. Members who are interested, to come to my office so that I can show them a list of all the countries that were against our proposal and the number of elephants that each one of them has. Suffice it to say that the highest population of elephants is in the SADC region.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, according to the hon. Minster, if people with ivory ornaments intend to travel outside the country, they should approach ZAWA. May I know what steps the ministry is taking to sensitise my brothers and sisters in the Western and Southern provinces who wear ivory bangles as part of their tradition.

Ms Namugala: Madam Speaker, indeed, the ministry will create awareness. We will also write to the Barotse Royal Establishment because we know that the majority of the people that use ivory, as a traditional bangle, are from the Western Province.

Madam Speaker, there are a number of airports now that have ivory detectors. This is why I mentioned this point. It would not be good for us to have any of our people arrested because of something they consider as traditional wear.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.




604. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    how often the books of accounts were audited at District Medical Offices countrywide; and

(b)    when the books of accounts at the office of the District Medical Officer in Chilubi District were last audited.

The Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Dr Chituwo) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Madam Speaker, the books of accounts at the District Health Offices are supposed to be audited, at least, once every year through routine audits. However, due to insufficient human resources in Audit departments, sometimes, audits are done once in two years. If there are suspected or reported malpractices at any district office, special audits are conducted. 

Madam Speaker, the Chilubi District Health Office was last routinely audited in 2007.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, long before the current district team at the office of the District Medical Officer took over, there were serious reports of financial irregularities and these were reported to the office of the Provincial Medical Officer. I would like to know the punitive measures that the Provincial Medical Officer together with the hon. Minister intend to put in place to correct the situation.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, when audits are undertaken, they are basically for two functions. These are to strengthen the systems and find out if these systems have been breached. If they have, then where there is theft, these are reported to investigative wings and further, to the arms of the law. In this particular audit, issues are still being followed up and I am sure where such malpractices are found, they will be brought to their logical conclusion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, I would like to know what the ministry is doing to make sure that these audits are carried out on an annual basis as required other than giving us that lame excuse of lack of personnel to conduct the audits. 

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, we share the concern of the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan with regard to having regular audits in our institutions. One of the efforts we are making is the restructuring that is going on in the Ministry of Health. This House may recall that not long ago, we had only about 21,000 health workers. Last month, we were at 29,919 workers. The process of recruitment is on going. This recruitment has to be married with the procedure of obtaining Treasury authority because there has to be money for us to pay these people. Currently, the systems in procurement, auditing and, of course, human resource are being strengthened. We are taking all these measures in order to strengthen not only auditing, but also accountability.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.


605. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Home Affairs why police officers who shot dead three fishermen in Samfya District during the fish ban in 2008 were not prosecuted.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Taima): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the police in Samfya did not shoot any fishermen during the 2008 fish ban.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, there is overwhelming evidence on the ground to this effect. The officers were transferred to Mwense in the aftermath of the incidence. Could the hon. Minister justify his answer.

Mr Taima: Madam Speaker, I encourage the hon. Member of Parliament to report such overwhelming evidence to the police. The police can then move in and investigate such matters.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


606. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the Minister of Health when the Government would convert the Mazabuka District Hospital into a general hospital.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, I wish to confirm that the Government will upgrade Mazabuka District Hospital into a modern general hospital to cater for the increasing population due to the increased economic activities and industrialisation in the district. This will be done in consideration of the fact that the district already has a first level hospital at Chikankata.

Madam Speaker, a committee has been put in place to critically study the matter and present a report to the ministry after which a detailed plan and work schedule shall be developed. Implementation of this programme has been included in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP).

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, on 14th February, this year, at Chief Mwanachingwala’s palace, His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Banda, made an undertaking that Mazabuka District …

The Deputy Speaker: Order! 

The House has been very ably guided on follow-up questions and, therefore, when an hon. Member stands, he must ask a question. The preambles are not really allowed. You have already made the principle question, therefore, ask your question.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, going by the answer given by the hon. Minister, does he mean that the President was not telling the truth when he said that Mazabuka District Hospital will be converted into a general hospital this year?

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, from my response, it is very clear that directive is being followed. We have, however, made mechanisms to ensure that as the directive is being implemented, it is done on some scientific basis. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.


607. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice when the local courts at the following places in Mwinilunga East Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated:

(a)    Chief Chibwika;

(b)    Chief Kakoma; and 

(c)    Senior Chief Sailunga.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, Chibwika Court needs to be re-constructed as it is in a bad state. It is, therefore, being included in next year’s budget for construction. The Kakoma and Sailunga courts are among those proposed to be rehabilitated in next year’s budget.

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 


608. Mr Imenda (Lukulu East) asked the Minister Finance and National Planning what contribution the gross domestic product growth rates of 5.3 per cent in 2007, 6.1 per cent in 2008 and 4.3 per cent in 2009 made towards poverty reduction in the country.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Madam Speaker, the available Living Conditions Monitoring Survey on Poverty is for 2006. The 2008 to 2010 surveys are still being put together. It is, therefore, difficult to provide an accurate answer on the poverty situation in the country during the period 2007 to 2009.

Madam Speaker, that notwithstanding, we have observed that since 1996, the growth has translated into reduction in poverty. For instance, an average growth rate of 4 per cent per annum over the period 1996 to 2006 resulted in a reduction in poverty, from 69 per cent in 1996 to 59.3 per cent in 2006. This reduction in poverty largely arises from the creation of jobs as the economy expands, creating income for the people leading to an improvement in the standard of living. 

Madam Speaker, the growth of the economy, over the past few years, has been driven by sectors such as mining, agriculture, construction and service sectors. In the absence of the 2010 Living Conditions Monitoring Survey, an analysis of the changes in employment in these sectors will give some indication of the extent to which incomes and the poverty situation in the country could have been affected. For instance, an increase in employment in the agricultural sector and growth is likely to have a huge effect on the poverty situation as this sector is largely labour-based and thus pro-poor. However, growth of capital-intensive sectors such as mining and construction are likely to have less impact. 

Madam Speaker, the Government is happy that agriculture has now started recording higher growth rates than in previous years as seen in the bumper harvests of the last two seasons. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: If this trend continues, it could see the poverty levels further declining. It is also important to note that other sectors are also growing fast and creating jobs. For instance, in 2008, there has been a 46.9 per cent expansion in the mining sector employment and 21.4 per cent expansion in employment in the construction sector as per the Labour Force Survey. 

It is, therefore, our expectation that when the 2010 Living Conditions Monitoring Survey is completed, poverty levels will have come down further. This is on account of the significant growth rate that has been recorded in the last four years, including the opening of new mines and increase in investments across the key sectors of the economy as well as the resuscitation of the agricultural sector. 

Madam Speaker, I need to, however, mention that growth has to take place consistently, over sometime, for poverty to reduce significantly. Examples of some South Eastern Asian countries such as China are there for us to learn from. We also need to grow consistently, over a long period of time, and attract as much investment as possible for us to reduce poverty rapidly. 

Madam Speaker, we know that growth may not reach some segments of our society. The Government will, therefore, continue with the provision of support, such as free basic education, primary health care, social welfare schemes and other interventions such as the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) to support members of the community who are least advantaged so that they too can benefit from the positive growth recorded since 1999.

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Imenda: Madam Speaker does the hon. Minister recognise the fact that for Zambia to reach the Vision 2030, the economy is required to grow by an average growth rate of 10 per cent, taking into consideration that a substantial amount of that growth goes towards capital flight?

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of what has been stated by the hon. Member. I stated in my response that we have to have a sustainable economy growth for us to reach the Vision 2030. Not only does the growth of the economy have to be sustainable, but it also has to be in areas with the most impact. I mentioned that agriculture is one of the areas where there are initiatives that are trying to broaden activity in that sector as can be seen by the last two seasons’ bumper harvests. This is also demonstrated by the diversification of the agriculture sector into fishing and animal husbandry to ensure that we grow this sector and have a greater impact on the reduction of poverty in rural areas. Coupled with this, is the huge rural budget spending all in an effort to alleviate poverty in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister explain how the several subsidies that she mentioned such as the FISP, free education and social welfare schemes will be funded. Who are we taxing in order to fund all theses subsidies? 

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, obviously, for us to sustain subsidies, we have to grow the revenue base. We have created enough initiatives which are on-going to show that we have sustained economic growth through not only foreign direct investment (FDI), but also other initiatives that are geared to grow the economy. There has been a lot of investment in various sectors such as mining that are reflecting the sustainable growth of the economy. Even last year when we had a financial crisis, we managed to register growth in the economy of this country. From what has been put in place, therefore, we are confident that as the economy grows, our capacity to sustain these subsidies will be there. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.  

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister why, as a country, we are targeting growth which is clearly not resulting in the reduction of poverty. Where is the problem?

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Madam Speaker, I mentioned in my answer that we are targeting growth in areas such as agriculture that has the most impact on poverty alleviation.  

Madam Speaker, apart from that, there are indicators that illustrate that there is an improvement in the social performance of our economy. For example, there is real growth in population access to water because interventions to try and create more water and sanitation programmes have been put in place. There are other indicators that show that some of the millennium development goals (MDGs) have helped to improve the lives of our people. We have trying to make primary education free and accessible and building more health centres and school blocks. We are trying to address these issues in each and every budget so that we have a social impact in the nation.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!





The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the object of this Bill is to amend the Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control Act Chapter 156 of 1977 and, specifically, to address the following:

(a)    establish the Zambia Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control Board;

(b)    revise the provisions relating to the powers of the board; and

(c)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, the amendment of the Act seeks to bring it in tandem with the international trends. The following necessitated the review of the Act:

(a)    the Act was gender insensitive;

(b)    registration fees became uncompetitive;

(c)    the need to revert to one board;

(d)    the need to revisit the tenure of office for the board members;

(e)    the purse money for the boxers became uncompetitive; and

(f)    the need for boxers to weigh in pants.

Madam Speaker, the amendment of the Act is very vital for the development of these two sports disciplines and, therefore, needs to be supported by this august House.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Madam Speaker, your Committee considered the Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control Board Bill whose objective is to amend the Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control  Act so as to:

(a)    establish the Zambia Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control Board;

(b)    revise the provision relating to the powers of the board; and 

(c)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the forgoing.

Madam Speaker, allow me to state, from the outset, that your Committee supports the Bill. Your Committee believes that this Bill is long over due. However, in supporting it, I will highlight a few provisions that might need refining.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that there has been a piecemeal approach in the efforts to amend the Act. Your Committee is of the opinion that a more comprehensive review should have been carried out. Your Committee recommends that the Government, through the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development, looks into further amendments.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that the current world trends in the administration of sports opt for the election as opposed to appointment of board members. Election of board members by the stakeholders ensures objectivity, accountability and transparency in the affairs of boards. In its appreciation of the need for the Government to have some influence in the operations of the board, your Committee recommends that the chairperson could be appointed by the hon. Minister. However, criteria for persons eligible for appointment to the position of board chairperson should be clearly outlined.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that while the Bill is being amended to include female boxers, the principal Act is still not gender neutral and emphasises the male gender as it uses the words such as ‘He, Him and His’. Your Committee recommends that further amendments to the main Act be made to deal with this issue so that these three words are substituted by the term ‘The Person’.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observed the silence in the Bill on the linkage between the Zambia Amateur Boxing Federation and the Zambia Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control Board. Your Committee recommends that the Bill provides for a clear guideline on how one could progress from amateur to professional boxing.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also observed the importance of the need for stakeholders in the boxing profession to understand their rights and privileges. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Bill provides for the formation of an association of boxers, separate from the board, to safeguard their interest.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observed that the sport of wrestling is dying and, therefore, recommends that the board be compelled to come up with incentives to revamp wrestling in the country.

Madam Speaker, your Committee further observed that although the principal Act under Clause 9 (1) (N) states that the board shall establish a benevolent fund, it has not been active. Therefore, the board should be compelled to ensure that the fund is revamped as it will go a long way in addressing some of the problems that boxers are facing.

Hon Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to thank all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their valuable input in the findings of your Committee. I also wish to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the support rendered to your Committee during its deliberations. 

Madam Speaker, finally, I wish to express my gratitude to you for affording us an opportunity to consider the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Speaker, in the first place, I would like to commend the Committee for a job well done. The report is very clear and has highlighted issues that are critical to professional boxing in this country.

Madam, as a person who has been so much involved in professional boxing in this country, I have, for a long time, been hoping and looking forward to a moment this Act could be amended.

In the sub-region, we are the only country where board members or those who are given the challenge of looking after professional boxing are appointed. In the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region and in most countries, boards are elected. Indeed, I would like to agree with the Committee that an association is supposed to be put in place so that it can ensure the regulations and all the recommendations that are in place are adhered to.

The Act is very clear on the fact that professional boxers are supposed to benefit after retirement through the benevolent fund, which, unfortunately, has never been set up. The statutory instruments (SIs) that are put in place by the Minister are very clear and guide on how professional boxing is supposed to be run in this country. Unfortunately, because we have a board which is appointed by the Minister, the appointed team shows allegiance to the Minister and not the stakeholders. We would want to see a board of members who are elected by the stakeholders so that they are compelled to perform. If they are able to perform, the stakeholders will re-elect them to continue in office.

Madam Speaker, on a yearly basis, this House apportions a certain amount of money for the administration of professional boxing in this country, and yet it is not accounted for. No audited reports have been received on the Floor of this House from the Professional Boxing Board. Therefore, we do not know how this money is utilised. 

Madam, I have also noticed, in the report, that our colleagues would like to extend the tenure of office of the board members from three to five years. I find that very difficult to understand and, therefore, I would like to agree with the Committee that five years will be too long a period for a committee that is incompetent. Currently, there is nothing that we can talk about on professional boxing in this country. Therefore, I would like to propose that we maintain the three years, which is already in place, until there is progress in professional boxing in this country. Only then can there be a consideration to extend the tenure of office.

Madam Speaker, I also noticed, in the Bill, that our colleagues are saying we need to extend the administration of boxing outside the country as well. Probably, this will be the first time that I will see a Zambian law being applied in a foreign country. What I know is that a given law is supposed to be applied in a specific jurisdiction.

Mr C. Mulenga: Yes!

Mr Mwenya: The law enacted in Zambia can only be applied in Zambia. There is no way you can start administering your Zambian law in Tanzania or Kenya. Therefore, in my opinion, that also cannot apply. The law should remain as it is. It should be for the administration of professional boxing in Zambia and not outside Zambia. 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Each country has got its own laws on professional boxing and Acts that govern professional boxing.

Madam Speaker, the Act does not define professional boxing. That also needs to be looked at. In Zambia, professional boxing has suffered because there are boxers in the army who are not allowed to become professional boxers. Once a boxer from the army turns professional, he loses his job. That means that this person loses a source of income and accommodation. This makes it very difficult for that person because Zambia has not reached the levels where one can survive on professional boxing alone. 

Tournaments in Zambia are usually once in a blue moon. One will have a tournament probably, after three or four years. The purse money that the boxers receive is about K500,000 or K1,000,000. How do you expect someone to survive on such kind of purse money for three years?

Therefore, there is a need to seriously define professional boxing. We have to seriously ask our colleagues in the Defence Forces to review their stance on professional boxers. This is where we have proper clubs that are well-funded and equipped but, because of this stance, our boxers are reluctant to turn professional. 

Under normal circumstances, once amateur boxers have had an opportunity to go to the Olympic Games, that should be the end of their amateur ranking as they need to graduate to the professional ranks. If such a particular boxer remains in the amateur ranks, it means he has to wait for another four years to go to the Olympics. Thus, it should be a must that once a boxer has managed to go to the Olympics, they are graduated. Most of the boxers who have the opportunity to go to the All Africa Games and Olympics are in the army. Therefore, we are saying that this also has to be revisited.

There is a need to come up with a law that will harmonise all these aspects so that boxers in all sectors are free to turn professional without the fear of having their careers affected. If that fails, then let us come up with a definition of semi-professional and fully professional boxing. This way, those who will be referred to as fully professional boxers will be those who can travel out of the country and be based in Europe, for example, where they can continue performing as boxing there is lucrative and can sustain their livelihoods.

Moreover, even football in Zambia can no longer be referred to as amateur. There are footballers who are based in Europe. For example, Katongo is from the army and plays football in Europe. We have seen that Katongo, on several occasions, has performed very well and the army has continued to promote him and decorate him. I would not be surprised to learn that Katongo is still drawing a salary as a soldier although it is, of course, meaningless to him at this particular moment. This is because whatever he is receiving as a professional footballer cannot be equalled to what he was being paid as a local player in Zambia. Why should it be that professional boxers have to stop working, and yet professional footballers do not? Therefore, we are saying that this has to be revisited …

Mr C. Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: … so that we can have a better professional boxing environment where boxers can be happy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, my friend is asking me whether I am a boxer. Let me declare interest that I am a sportsman and enjoy watching boxing and I would like to commend your Committee for the thorough work it did on this Bill. I entirely agree with your Committee on the notion that the amendment is simply piecemeal to the Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control Act and that is what led us into trouble.

Madam Speaker, the House might recall that, sometime last year, the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development, when responding to a question on whether the law in Zambia allowed for female boxing, said it did not. However, he went on to say that the Government was just turning a blind eye to the law by allowing Esther Phiri to fight. He also said that if the law was adhered to, she would not be permitted to do so. That, obviously, was going against the law of the land. This is a good opportunity for the hon. Minister to do thorough work on this Act so that we are not caught wanting again.

Madam Speaker, beyond the issues that the Chairperson eloquently presented on behalf of the Committee, the hon. Minister referred to the purse money earned by boxers and he said it was inadequate. I wonder where, in this Bill, he has provided for the regulation of purse money. I would like to refer him to Cap 156, Section 22(1) of the Laws of Zambia which provides as follows:

“In the case of the national championship contest, the boxer who is the title holder shall have the right to demand that the approved challenger shall deposit with the board or its nominee any sum of money up to the maximum amount fixed for the title held by the title holder before he shall be required to accept such challenge and defend his title. The maximum amounts fixed for this purpose of this regulation are as follows:

    Category    Amount 

    Flyweight    K6
    Featherweight    K8
    Middleweight    K16
    Light heavyweight    K18
    Heavyweight    K20.”

The K20 is provided for in this Act, as amended, by Act No. 13 of 1994. If, indeed, the hon. Minister was saying that he is trying to modernise this law and that he is interested in protecting boxers and wrestlers, this is where he should have focused his attention. That Committee chaired by my very good friend was not given an opportunity to look at the purse money for boxers, and yet the hon. Minister is saying that this law is to protect boxers and their purse money.

Madam Speaker, if the hon. Minister is going to do thorough work on this Bill, he will have a lot of amendments to make. Would it not be wise, therefore, for me to request my colleague to review this? By this I mean that he should withdraw this Bill for him to do a thorough investigation on it so that we are not caught up, yet again, because this law is, obviously, outdated.

Madam Speaker, I now want to touch on the issue of the appointment of the board. You know that the Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control Board is answerable to the National Sports Council of Zambia (NSCZ) that is appointed by the Minister. Why then should a subsidiary body be appointed by the same Minister? What relationship will be created between the NSCZ and the Boxing and Wrestling Control Board? The mere fact that the people who sit on these boards are appointed by the same person or office, will always be a conflict. Why does the hon. Minister not find it reasonable to encourage the boxers to also come up with an association such as the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) so that the association elects its own representatives from its members? This will make the boxers and wrestlers have a voice or a mouthpiece because, as things are, the boxers and wrestlers in this country do not have a body where they can go for logistics and sport development.

Madam Speaker, my colleague, the Chairperson of the Committee, referred to the benevolent fund. One of the reasons this fund is defunct is that the boxers find it difficult to appeal as they have no institution to represent them whereas for football, the FAZ Vice-President is here in the House. Boxers only go to the regulator who is appointed by the hon. Minister. That is why even the annual reports of this organisation have never been tabled in this House. I have been in this House for nine years now, by the courtesy of the good people of Kabwata.

Hon. Member: Uleya uno umuku.


Mr Lubinda: Over the nine years, I have not seen an annual report from this body, and yet it is supposed to be answerable not only to the hon. Minister, but also to this House. It is this body which is supposed to know the interests of boxers and wrestlers. May I appeal to the hon. Minister, through you, Madam Speaker, that we support this initiative to bring this law to order, but in a holistic manner.

Madam Speaker, the other issue that my colleague referred to is that of the definition of a boxer. As cited in the report of your Committee, in this country, there are amateur boxers and professional boxers, and yet this law does not define or provide the difference between the two categories. What this has created is that those who go for Olympics and win medals are considered professional boxers and lose employment immediately they return to the country. When people lose employment, for instance, from the army, they also lose the opportunity to train in the gymnasium provided for soldiers. Instead, they go to private gymnasiums that are not as highly equipped as the ones provided for in the army. How then do you expect to develop talent or, indeed, boxing? When people become professionals, they are denied the opportunity to train in the well-equipped gymnasium. 

I support your Committee’s statement that this is a good initiative, but lacks content. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to find it in his wisdom to withdraw this Bill and present it to the stakeholders. This way, they can do thorough work on it so that when we come to pass the amendment here, our law will be of 2011 and not 1994.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. B. K. Banda, SC.: Madam Speaker, I rise to support the Bill for a very simple reason. In this country, we know that we have a woman called Esther Phiri, who is involved in boxing and yet, under this law, women were not allowed to engage in boxing. Therefore, this amendment, although it has come to the House at this late hour, it is, in my view, most welcome. It would not be reasonable, in my humble view, to defer this particular Bill because there is a mischief it is intended to cure. 

Madam Speaker, in addition to that, there is also a requirement that boxers weigh in their birth suits. I think in a Christian country like ours, that practice is not welcome. Therefore, these few amendments have achieved their intended objectives and for this reason, I whole heartedly support the amendments.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, let me start by saying I support the Bill and, in doing so, I would like to talk about a few things regarding sporting activities in this country. I am one person who is against legislating what the sportsmen should earn. This should be left to their performance.

Madam Speaker, today, we are talking about the demise of boxing. We used to have professional boxers such as Lottie Mwale, Chisanda Muti and Chamshafo Chiteule. We should redefine the term ‘professional’. The tendency for people to call themselves professional when they are semi-professionals has ruined sport. In Europe and other countries, a professional is somebody who is engaged in that discipline daily. It is someone who works up, trains and commits his time to improving his skill. If today somebody is being paid K500,000 for boxing, it is because his skills are worth K500,000. As a boxer, you are supposed to entertain people, sell yourself and attract crowds because of your prowess. Boxers in Europe and America have fights every month because they know that is where their bread and butter is. For one to achieve big purse money, one must be able to perform above those who get K500,000.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Therefore, we should not legislate the purse money so that those who are lazy should not get anything. We should leave it out so that people should perform to their best ability and have the world watch their fights on television. This way, a lot of people can pay to watch television. That is how boxers make their money. They do not make money by the State giving it to them, but by attracting people to go and watch their fights. 

Madam Speaker, the other thing we should do is encourage our sportspersons to work hard, including footballers who are also semi-professionals. As I support, in principle, the establishment of a benevolent fund, let me also say that a good sportsman with a name which sells should also be taught how to manage his or her wealth. Why set up a benevolent fund for a boxer who, maybe, has made US$5 million in his lifetime, but because of his careless living, has spent it all. Therefore, instead of using that money to train other boxers to be like him, you give those who have earned and spent their money. These are the issues that we should address because if we are going to be spoon feeding them, we will never attain the boxing levels of the late Lottie Mwale and Chisanda Muti again. Likewise, from the calibre of the players we have, it is evident we are not going to have people of Kalusha Bwalya’s level, who played in top leagues. 

Madam Speaker, I wish we had Zambians who would play in top leagues. Today, Toure has been transferred to Manchester City for US$24 million. When the player gets his fees, he gets about £2.4 million. For you to reach that level, you have to ensure that you put in your best. There is nothing which can stop us from having sportsmen of this calibre. All that is needed is discipline because we have seen it happen. If we talk about Lottie Mwale’s achievements, what stables were there apart from his being in the army? He left the army, but was able to fill the Independence Stadium. He was able to box in Europe at a level that brought him recognition and enabled him to fight at the World Boxing Association where he failed and came out as the finalist. 

Madam Speaker, we should come up with a law, that will allow some people to be taxed so that we invest in sports development. This can be done in the same way we have in developing hospitals where businesses are taxed and the way fuel levy is collected. We can also find somewhere we can levy so that we invest the money collected in sports development in schools and welfare halls that can provide relaxation to people. It would even assist some of the political cadres who unleash their wrath on innocent people to unleash their anger in the boxing ring so that at the end of the day, they have use for their fury and make money therefrom.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I just would like to correct one point. Hon. Lubinda made some misleading and alarming …


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … statements in this House. He quoted various categories of purse money and said that the charges or amounts to be deposited were ridiculous. He talked about K6, K20, and other such amounts, but he did not mention that these are in the regulations by the Minister. This means that they can be corrected by statutory instrument. They do not necessarily have to be brought to the House.


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: The Minister has taken note of those submissions, including some of the submissions of the other hon. Members who have debated. However, there is no need for us to defer consideration of this Bill because what the hon. Minister seeks to do is amend the Act and the regulations will be attended to at the right time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members:  Hear, hear!

The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to wind up the Motion on the Floor. Let me begin by commending the Chairman of your Committee and his team for the well-articulated report. Let me also thank all those who debated this Motion and those who have supported it in silence. 

Madam Speaker, the amendment to this Bill was subjected to intensive deliberations and consultations by the stakeholders, including the boxers and promoters and this is exactly what they came up with. 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Therefore, I wish to concur with His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice that there is no need to defer this amendment at this time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 4th August, 2010.




Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.                   


The Deputy Chairperson: When business was suspended, the House was considering the Competition and Consumer Protection Bill, 2010 and we had just finished considering Clause 60. We now move to the next clause.

61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87 and 88 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First and Second Schedules, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.




The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Competition and Consumer Protection Bill, 2010

Third Reading on 30th July, 2010.




The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1640 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 2010.