DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 4th August, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

GOVERNMENT PERSONAL-TO-HOLDER VEHICLES

624. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice:

(a)    what the Government policy regarding personal-to-holder vehicles for leaders in the Government had been since 2006;

(b)    which category of officials was entitled to personal-to-holder vehicles in the Government; and

(c)    whether the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) party officials were entitled to the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) vehicles.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, the policy regarding personal-to-holder vehicles for leaders in the Government has been that Government leaders are allowed to buy their personal-to-holder vehicles at the book value once the vehicles have been used by them for three years or after the leaders have been in service for at least for four years, whichever comes first. Each leader is, however, only entitled to one personal-to-holder vehicle with reference to the Cabinet circular CO.101/4/237 sec – 30/09/2005.

Madam Speaker, the category of officials entitled to personal-to-holder vehicles in the Government is that at the rank of Permanent Secretary or equivalent and above as well as hon. Ministers and hon. Deputy Ministers. The MMD party officials are not entitled to GRZ vehicles.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chazangwe: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that often times, MMD carders drive these GRZ vehicles …

Interruptions

Mr Chazangwe: …and, at times, even pack them at public places.  What is the hon. Minister doing about that? 

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, that is very irrelevant and I am not aware of that fact. If the hon. Member has evidence of such issues, he should report them to the relevant authorities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, at one time, it was the Government’s policy not to allow GRZ vehicles to pack at drinking places. I would like to find out if this is still obtaining.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I am not aware of any change of policy. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, is the Government still ensuring that people who drive GRZ vehicles undergo proper driving tests and that they qualify to drive those vehicles?

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, yes, they do. Even hon. Ministers have to get a competence licence certificate to drive GRZ vehicles. That is being implemented and I have one, if you want proof.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, in his explanation, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that only Permanent Secretaries were entitled to personal-to-holder vehicles. However, we see Directors and even those below them driving these vehicles. Can he confirm that they are also entitled to driving these vehicles?

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I want to repeat what I said in my answer. The category of officials entitled to personal-to-holder vehicles in the Government are those at the rank of Permanent Secretary or equivalent and above as well as hon. Ministers and hon. Deputy Minister.

Madam Speaker, Directors might be driving pool vehicles and one should not be misled into thinking that these are personal-to-holder vehicles. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

CHURCHES HEALTH ASSOCIATION OF ZAMBIA

625. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Health what the total number of medical doctors employed by the following churches, under the Churches Health Association of Zambia (CHAZ) was:

(i)    Catholic;

(ii)    Seventh Day Adventist;

(iii)    Salvation Army; and

(iv)    Christian Missions in Many lands.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Madam Speaker, the following is the total number of medical doctors who work as volunteers at the following churches under CHAZ.

Church    No. of Doctors

    Catholic    13

    Seventh Day Adventist    3

    Salvation Army     3
Christian Mission in Many Lands    6

Total    25

Madam Speaker, in addition, the Ministry of Health sends medical doctors to mission hospitals under CHAZ.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, the answer given by the hon. Minister signifies that the church plays a very instrumental role in supplementing the Government’s effort in the health sector. I would, therefore, like to find out when the Government of the Republic of Zambia will send medical doctors to areas where there are none?

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, there is a misconception that every health facility must have a doctor. It does not happen like that anywhere in the world. There are facilities with establishments that can support a doctor and those that cannot. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, are the salaries of the doctors that work under CHAZ the same as those in the Government.

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, there are two categories of doctors working under CHAZ. The volunteers are fully engaged by the missions themselves and I read out the figures. We do not know under what conditions they save. The doctors that the Government sends to CHAZ serve under the same conditions as those employed by the Government and they are fully paid by it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, hospitals like Namwianga Mission, which are built by churches, have all the facilities that a medical doctor would need. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why doctors are not provided in such institutions.  

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I wish to repeat the statement I uttered earlier that a facility must have an establishment to support a doctor. The hon. Member may wish to know that, at the moment, we are facing problems as regards sending Zambian doctors to mission hospitals. 

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this House that there is division in certain mission hospitals between expatriate and local doctors. There is a tendency to keep Zambian doctors on one side of the hospital and expatriates on the other. For instance, some mission hospitals do not have mixed housing for doctors. Certain hospitals even reject our Zambian doctors. This is what we are experiencing. 

Madam Speaker, sending doctors to mission hospitals is not as easy as one may think. We, as a ministry, have problems in this respect and we are trying to find a way of working with these hospitals so that when we send our doctors to them, they give them treatment which is befitting of a doctor. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

KASABA MISSION HOSPITAL CANAL

626. Dr Chishya (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when the canal to the Kasaba Mission Hospital in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency would be cleared. 

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Madam Speaker, the House may wish to know that this canal is critical as it enables the people in Samfya and surrounding areas to access health services from a health facility located in the area. 

Since the 2010 Budget on canal development and maintenance is already committed, this canal will be considered in the 2011 Budget and programme. 

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, funds committed for canal development tend to be meager. As such, is the hon. Minister willing to consider increasing the budget for canal development in the 2011 Budget?

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, the amount allocated to the clearing of canals is dependent on the funds which are made available by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. We, as a ministry, are willing to budget for more funds. However, because of the little resources available, we do not allocate enough resources. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, last year, the Ministry of Transport and Communications promised that it would procure dredging machines for the Luapula, Western and Northern provinces for clearing canals. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has procured these machines.  

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, our director in the department of maritime will soon be leaving for Finland to choose which types of dredgers are required in the three provinces. 

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, realising that people in this particular constituency use canals to seek medical services, I am wondering what would happen if the ministry did not have funds …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Ask your question.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, would it not be possible for the hon. Minister to consider this situation as an emergency and acquire some funds from the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to use for the clearance of the canals. 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, it is not possible for me to decide whether it should be considered as an emergency or not. If it was an emergency, there would be a lot of institutions that would be willing to help. We would even use resources from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mubika: … and use them for the clearance of the canal. Alternatively, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli can appeal to the DMMU to have the canal cleared. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Ms Kapata: Madam Speaker, one of the bottle necks of maternal death is access to hospital facilities. Would the hon. Minister tell this House that the money for the development of the canals will be made available in the 2011 Budget and state whether he is sure about that.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I mentioned earlier that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli should come forward and see how he can assist the people in this area. This is because this problem can be curbed by the use of either the CDF or funds from the ministry. 

I thank you, Madam.

Laughter

KATANGA PROVINCE GOVERNOR’S ASSESTS

627. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice:

(a)    why the Government returned the assets belonging to the Governor of Katanga Province in the Democratic Republic of Congo; and

(b)    what the total value of the returned assets was.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the agreement signed between the Governor of Katanga Province in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Mr Moses Katumbi, and the Zambian Government, through the Task Force on Corruption, sought to reach an amicable out of court settlement of the civil court proceedings and claims filed by Mr Katumbi in the High Courts of Lusaka and Kitwe. 

Madam Speaker, in the public interest, the Zambian Government agreed and undertook to close all investigations carried out against Mr Katumbi by the Government agency, including the High Court of all civil proceedings and claims that were pending against the Government as represented by the Attorney-General, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). 

Madam Speaker, the High Courts in Kitwe and Lusaka endorsed this agreement. As a result of the agreement signed between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the Governor of Katanga Province in the Democratic Republic of Congo, the following properties were forfeited to the State and sold:

     Moveable Property

(i)    various mining equipment and motor vehicles located at Kalulushi, Lufwanyama and Lusaka sold at K3,366,475,000;

(ii)    money forfeited to the Zambian Government was K183,679,243.59 (US$16,695.03); and

(iii)    office furniture and office equipment sold at K13,719,000.00

Madam Speaker, in accordance with the agreement, no properties were sold to Mr Katumbi and no cash was returned.

    Immoveable Properties 

industrial property stand No. NDO 4083/12 Ndola was handed over to National Housing Authority (NHA) for disposal with an estimated value of K1.8 billion

Madam Speaker, it should be noted that a trunk of emeralds with an estimated value of US$214,223.60 has not yet been given back to Mr Katumbi. This process of handing over the trunk to him is underway.  

Madam speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mwango: Madam Speaker, I would like to know what led to the seizure of this property. Did Mr Katumbi commit any crime while in Zambia?

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, as has been indicted, there were investigations carried out. At the end of the day, it was necessary to come up with an amicable settlement as the matters were in the High Court. An agreement was reached by both parties. 

I thank you, Madam. 
    
Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Madam Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office has said that the emeralds have not been handed over to Mr Katumbi. Will the hon. Minister indicate to this House that, actually, the emeralds have been stolen by the Government of the Republic of Zambia?

 Laughter

Mr Chilembo:  Madam Speaker, those are dangerous rumours. We are not aware of such thefts.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, will the hon. Minister tell us where these emeralds were mined and the name of the mine if it is in Zambia?

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, we do not have that information, but what we know is that we have the emeralds seized from him. At the moment, where he got them from is immaterial, but what is material is that we are handing them over.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, it was announced that Mr Katumbi was being pursued by the Zambian Government for criminal offences. May I know if the criminal offence were also a subject of this agreement?

The Vive-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, the matter was settled amicably. Whatever was an issue in dispute between the parties was settled, including any civil criminal matter.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, the events leading to the settlement of this matter included a visit by the current Chief Whip of Parliament to Katanga Province. May I know the role that the Chief Whip played in arriving at this civil suit and the reason for the contradictory statements issued by him upon his return from visiting the person in this question?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, the settlement was negotiated by the Attorney-General and not by the Chief Whip whom you are talking about.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Zulu (Bwanamukubwa): Madam Speaker, the emeralds were not returned. May I know from the His Honour the Vice-President where they are?

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, they are secured in a bank which I cannot mention.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! They are in the bank.

Laughter

CLASSROOM BLOCKS REHABILITAION

628. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Education how many schools countrywide received financial assistance for rehabilitation of classroom blocks whose roofs were blown off during the 2009/10 rainy season.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the Hose that the Ministry of Education will provide funds to repair the schools whose roofs were blown off during the 2009/2010 rainy season once funds are made available. Currently, the ministry is collecting debt and costing the works at all these schools so that they can be funded in the 2011 Budget.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, it is taking too long for the Government to rehabilitate infrastructure damaged by such disasters. May I know whether it is the responsibility of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) or the Ministry of Education to rehabilitate such infrastructure?

Mr Sinyinda: Madam Speaker, it is the responsibility of the Government under both the DMMU and the Ministry of Education. As the House may be aware, it has been done in the past and it will definitely be done again in future.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, when will hon. Government Ministers stop singing the song of “when fund will be available”? 

Laughter

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Madam Speaker, the short response to that question is that they will stop when funds are available. However, it is important that, sometimes, hon. Members take time to visit the responsible offices. In the constituencies, there are the District Education Boards (DEBs), the Provincial Education Officer (PEO) and also the ministry headquarters where specific cases can be discussed in detail and appropriate answers given. As the hon. Deputy Minister says, we are compiling the list of affected schools. You also know that the damage was caused only in the last rainy season, but we are doing a lot of construction and attending to existing schools that need to be maintained.

Madam Speaker, the “as and when the money is available” we keep saying is why we, on this side of the House, keep emphasising that we should all work very hard to ensure that the economy grows so that money is always available.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, it is clear that everything is at the costing stage. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how quickly the ministry will be able to move in, considering that the rainy season is just around the corner.

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, in spite of us trying to include the costings in the 2011 budget, it does not mean that nothing much has been done on the ground. In some of the areas where the situation was very bad, money was released to ensure the roofing sheets were replaced. In other areas, the PEOs or DEBS took the initiative to ask for a variation in their budgets so that they could attend to these issues. In some areas, the Parent Teacher’s Association (PTA) came together and made sure that they dealt with the problem at hand. Even though we are trying to provide a wholesome approach to these problems, it does not mean that nothing is being done on the ground. In some areas, we have moved students from the affected classroom blocks to others so that they can continue learning.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that at Chikuni Basic School in my own constituency, the head teacher has been spending nights in a classroom together with pupils? This matter has already been reported to the ministry, but the ministry has not taken action. Is she aware and why is she inviting us to her office?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I am very grateful for the point raised by the hon. Member for Bangweulu. 

Madam Speaker, we know that there are many such cases and that situation is not unique. However, we are trying to address these problems, as the hon. Deputy Minister said in his answer, by costing their works so that we can provide the necessary finances in the next budget and attend to these issues.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what she has done about Nkulumashila High School which had its roof blown off and has been in that state for the past two years. I spoke to the hon. Minister, DEBs and the hon. Deputy Minister about it, but nothing has been done. When are you going to work on this school whose building is now getting cracked?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, the situation that the hon. Member of Parliament has brought to light and the non-performance in terms of fixing the damaged roof is not the ministry’s wish. However, it is because, in the last two years, due to the heavy rains, we have had quite a number of schools having their roofs damaged. There were quite a number in the whole country, but I do not have the figures now. 

As a ministry, we have many needs such as constructing of new schools, dealing with existing schools that need rehabilitation, dealing with schools that are being affected by floods and dealing with teachers’ issues. At any given time, there are quite a number of issues that we have to deal with. We beg your indulgence that you be patient and, once the money is available, we will attend to all these problems.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I remember when the hon. Minister was appointed as hon. Minister of Education, I raised the issue of blown off roofs in schools and her answer was that it had been reported late to her office. Today, a similar question has been asked and she is saying they are costing the works, and yet some of these schools had their roofs blown off in 2008. Does the ministry have a system in place to repair schools as they get damaged or it would rather have schools damaged and build new ones elsewhere as she said?

Maybe, Professor Lungwangwa was better.

Laughter

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, we, on this side of the House, choose to ignore unreasonable comments because we are representing one Government.

Madam, in the last two years, as I have already stated, there was quite a lot of rainfall in this country and, thus, quite a number of schools were damaged. It does not mean that the ministry has ignored this problem, but it has to try and address all the problems in the ministry, including teachers’ problems, desks and construction problems. On one hand, the hon. Members of Parliament want schools to be constructed and on the other hand, we have to repair blown off roofs for schools. For all these issues, we have to get money from the same basket. Therefore, as a ministry, we must make a decision. I believe that it would not be bad if the hon. Members of Parliament initiated the purchase of roofing sheets so that the Central Government could attend to even bigger problems such as construction of new schools.

The school you are talking about has had no roofing sheets since 2008 and you, as an hon. Member of Parliament, has failed to provide leadership. You must go back and work with the PTA so that it can help in providing the roofing sheets.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Chazangwe: Madam Speaker, over the years, the PTA has played bigger roles in terms of maintenance of schools. However, it seems that it has now …

Madam Deputy Speaker: You are debating, ask your question.

Mr Chazangwe: … lost its grip. Are there any plans to put up another association like the PTA since people are calling the current one as “Pela Teacher Alye”, meaning, pay the teacher so that he eats?

Laughter

Mr Chazangwe: Are there any plans to come up with another structure that can attend to schools in case of any disasters?

Laughter

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I believe the PTAs will continue to be important in this country and elsewhere because they provide a platform for parents to be involved in schools where their children go to in their community. It is saddening to note that the hon. Member of Parliament can refer to the PTAs in such a manner. I believe the PTAs involve parents and the communities who are interested in the well-being of the schools where their children go. The PTAs will continue to be important and I do not believe that they have lost any value at all. As hon. Members of Parliament, parents or community, we must get involved and be interested in the schools where our children go.

Madam Speaker, it is high time we stopped looking at what the Government can do. We must provide leadership such as PTAs even at the school level. I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central is a member of one of the PTAs and has children or grandchildren that go to school. I am sure he does not give the teachers money to eat, but participates so that his children or grandchildren can have a better education.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: I request the hon. Members to listen to the responses as well as the follow-up questions. Can we reduce the preambles and just ask follow-up questions.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, how prepared is the ministry in light of the effects of climate change which we should expect to happen often?

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member of Parliament meant being ready for climate change in terms of curriculum review, I would say we are trying to address that so that our education system takes it into consideration. However, if he is talking about it from a climate point of view, obviously, this is a subject of the moment the world over, Zambia included. We are also affected by climate change as evidenced by the many schools that were destroyed because of the unusual heavy rains in the last two years.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has recounted the many responsibilities that she has to undertake namely, repairing and building schools. May I find out from her whether she feels overwhelmed by this responsibility that has been given to her so that it can be given to somebody else …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape: … because we, the taxpayers, are saying …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order! Ask your question and do not give an explanation.

Laughter

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, I think it is important that we avoid the pedestrian approach to issues. The Ministry of Education is mandated by the people of Zambia to expend the budget allocated to it by this Parliament. Therefore, when we talk about the Ministry of Education, we are not talking about Ms Dora Siliya, but a ministry supported by the Government and Parliament.

The many responsibilities that we have limit the budget expenditure. If you are going to ask for a school in Mufulira, we have to tell you that the budget is limited because we have many needs and not many responsibilities.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mubika: Tell her!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, has the ministry got any plans to resolve the problems of blown off roofs in schools or is it just working according to an ad hoc arrangement and there is no plan? If it has a plan, why does it not make it available to us?

Hon. Government Member: Hammer, Minister, hammer!

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, obviously, we cannot plan for every disaster. However, as the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned, in the answer, in the last one year, we have been trying, especially after the 2009/10 heavy rains to attend to the schools that were affected. As a ministry, we sat with management because we thought it was important to list all the schools whose roofs had been blown off or had been affected by floods in any way so that we could budget for them and repair them properly. However, I do not believe that there is a repair plan for effects of disasters. What we have is a maintenance programme in the Infrastructure Department that deals with schools whenever schools are dilapidated. If the resources can afford us, we repair these schools.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PRESIDENTIAL JET

629. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice:

(a)    why the Government acquired the presidential jet on lease;

(b)    what the terms of the contract were; and

(c)    how much money the Government had spent on the lease of the presidential jet.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government acquired the presidential jet on lease because it was not able to purchase the aircraft in a cash transaction due to financial constraints.

The presidential jet was delivered in October, 2001 at a cost of US$28,772,813 through a lease agreement with Execujet Aviation Group who sourced most of the financing for the aircraft. This was paid off in September, 2006 after the Government of the Republic of Zambia paid a total of US$35,950,000, including a residue amount of US$6,000,000, for operations and maintenance by Execujet during the five-year lease period and penalties on some delayed remittances. The aircraft is now fully owned by the Government of the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, due to security considerations, the Government is not in a position to disclose the terms of agreements signed with Execujet. Following the acquisition of the presidential jet, the Government has since signed new agreements with Execujet relating to the operations and other major maintenance works which cannot be handled locally.

Madam Speaker, leasing costs do not arise because the aircraft is the property of the Government of the Republic of Zambia. The presidential jet is, therefore, not hired when it is performing its functions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, may I know the lifespan of the presidential jet.

Interruptions

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, that is a technical matter which cannot be put to us in that manner.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, would it not give us greater pleasure to have Zambians fly this aircraft so that we domesticate it and locate it in Zambia rather than outside the country?

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the entire crew is Zambian and I do not know where the hon. Member is getting contrary information from.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Members should not consult loudly when a reply being is given.

Ms Mwape: Madam Speaker, may I find out the useful economic life of this jet for the period over which it is depreciating so as to give us an idea of its lifespan.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the House is becoming too technical. That, again, is a technical question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, the presidential jet is an asset of the Republic of Zambia and belongs to the tax payer. What is so secure about the contract that you cannot tell us its terms?

Dr Scott: They are hiding.

Mr Kambwili: 

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, security matters are the interest of the same tax payers. We cannot divulge information on security issues just like that. On this side of the House, we know what is contained in the contracts and we do not divulge information anyhow.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the hourly running costs of the presidential jet are.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, again, those are technical issues. This House has continued to raise technical issues this afternoon.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out how much it is costing the Republic on repairs and maintenance against vis-à-vis the cost and economic benefit analysis.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, that is, again, a very technical question.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, such questions require notice to enable us consult technical people to give us the correct position.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I hope this will not be a technical question. Can the hon. Minister inform this House where the jet is parked when it is not in use by the President? Is it parked here in Zambia or in South Africa? I also hope that my question will not be treated as a security issue.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has answered himself. His question is of a security nature. Why does he want to know where the jet is parked and what is his interest?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter
_________

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE ANIMAL HEALTH BILL

The Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Machila): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to present my ministry’s second reading speech for the Animal Health Bill of 2010.

In order to reflect modern practices and facilitate easier access to relevant laws in the livestock sector by stakeholders, it has become relevant to introduce the Animal Health Bill of 2010 in order to address the following objectives:

(i)    appoint the director responsible for veterinary services and other staff and define their powers and functions;

(ii)    provide for the prevention and control of animal diseases;

(iii)    provide for the quarantine of animals;
 
(iv)    regulate the importation and exportation of animals, animal products, animal by-products, articles and animal feed.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Can we have order in the House so that we can follow the debate.

Mr Machila: … 

(v)     establish the Animal Disease Control Fund;

(vi)    repeal and replace the Stock Diseases Act of 1963, the Cattle Cleansing Act of 1930, the Cattle Slaughter Act of 1948 and the Tsetse Control Act of 1941; and

(vii)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.    

Madam Speaker, Zambia is a signatory to the International Conventions and Norms on Animal Health as stipulated by the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) which is the umbrella organisation for standards on all animal health matters. The OIE has developed tools to evaluate veterinary services of member states in order to promote harmonisation. Under the auspices of the OIE, Zambia underwent a Performance of Veterinary Services (PVS) evaluation in 2008 as well as a gap analysis in 2009. The recommendations indicated that veterinary legislation in Zambia was not in tune with modern practices and standards and, therefore, required revision.

The progression of the animal Health Bill of 2010 into on Act of Parliament will see us accrue benefits and resolve issues such as:

(i)    provide the Director of Veterinary Services with powers to appoint veterinary inspectors as well as other officers who will be able to monitor animal health and diseases across the country. This will also enable the private sector to participate in disease control;

(ii)    regulate movement of livestock and livestock products within the country;

(iii)    the Zambian population will have access to safer and healthier livestock products. The application of international standards will protect the Zambian livestock industry from dumping;

(iv)    the registration of slaughter houses and the control of the conduct of meat inspection in slaughter facilities, including the regulation of the slaughter of immature and breeding animals;

(v)    regulate the production, distribution and use of veterinary drugs, biologicals, vitamins, minerals, hormones and growth promoters in animal products that may contribute to drug resistance in humans. The issue of monitoring veterinary drug use, withdrawal periods and drug residue remains the sole responsibility of the competent veterinary authority as per international norms and practices; and
 
(vi)    control vectors.

Madam Speaker, the successful enactment of the Animal Health Bill of 2010, will facilitate the enactment of legislation that will prevent and manage outbreaks of serious animal diseases, protect the welfare of farm animals and contribute to poverty alleviation and employment creation through the protection of animal health.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight a few issues contained in your Committee’s report on the Animal Health Bill, 2010 referred to your Committee on 14th July, 2010 and laid on the Table of the House on 3rd August, 2010.

Madam Speaker, it is my hope that hon. Members have taken time to read the report so that my role is only to highlight those issues that caught the attention of your Committee during its deliberations.

Madam Speaker, the objectives of the Bill are, among other issues, to:

(i)    provide for the appointment of the director responsible for veterinary services and other staff and provide for their powers and functions; and

(ii)     provide for the prevention and control of animal diseases and the quarantine of animals to regulate the importation and exportation of animals, animal products, animal by products, animal articles and animal feed. 

The other objectives of the Bill include:

(i)    establishing the animal disease control fund; and

(ii)     and repealing and replacing the Stock Diseases Act of 1961.

Madam Speaker, your Committee was assisted by various stakeholders in its consideration of the Bill. Your Committee wishes to inform the House that most stakeholders who appeared before it are in support of the Bill. In supporting the Bill, they raised a number of concerns that they thought would prevent the Bill from being effective.

Madam Speaker, most of the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee complained about the short period of time that they were given to prepare their submissions. The quality of the submissions was enough testimony of the short time given, as stakeholders only focused on areas that directly affected them and most of their submissions were very brief. Other stakeholders even opted not to respond at all to the requests for memoranda.

Madam Speaker, stakeholders who appeared before your Committee were concerned that the Bill, in its interpretation clause, has defined terms such as “para veterinary” and “veterinary surgeon” by referring to the meaning given to these terms in a non-existent Act, the Veterinary and Para Veterinary Professionals Act, instead of the existing “Veterinary Surgeons Act” Cap. 244 of the Laws of Zambia.

This was viewed as a serious anomaly. Your Committee was assured that the Ministry of Justice would move an amendment to correct this irregularity which was caused by delays in bringing to Parliament the said non-existent Act, as they had hoped its Bill would have been brought at the same time as the Animal Health Bill.

Madam Speaker, stakeholders were also concerned that the Bill, in its current form, eliminates the role of private veterinarians in the disease control dispensation. This is because the Bill focuses only on matters that relate to veterinarians who are employed by the Government. They suggested that the Bill should have expressed the relationship between the private and public veterinarians in the manner that they discharge their respective functions.

Madam Speaker, your Committee was informed that another Bill that seeks to regulate the private veterinarians will be presented to Parliament soon. Your Committee urges the Government to ensure that related Bills are presented at the same time so that stakeholders, as well as the House, have an opportunity to critically scrutinise the provisions of the Bills side by side. This will remove the possibility of critical provisions being left out in all related Bills.

Mr Speaker, the Bill further fails to identify some roles played by the medical officers in the Ministry of Health or the officers from the local authorities in the implementation of the Bill. Stakeholders submitted that the complementary roles played by various players in implementing the Bill should be recognised.

Madam Speaker, some stakeholders also expressed concern that Clause 20 of the Bill imposes a responsibility on the headmen to perform duties as if they are paid employees of the Government. According to the clause, a village headman is required to communicate an instruction to owners of animals in his village to assemble animals for purposes of inoculation or inspection. Contravention to the provisions of the clause is punishable upon conviction to a fine or imprisonment. The stakeholders were of the view that the penalties were harsh and undesirable.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also made some observations on the Bill. It also observed that it was irregular for the Bill to refer to a non-existent piece of legislation. The reference by the Bill to the Veterinary and Para Veterinary Professionals Act is erroneous.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to ensure that reference is made to the existing Act, the Veterinary Surgeons Act of 1964. This will cure the anomaly created of citing a non-existent Act. Your Committee further urges the Government to ensure that all related Bills are brought to Parliament at the same time for consideration so as to enable your Committee and the stakeholders consider the Bills effectively.

Madam Speaker, your Committee further notes that the Bill appears to only concentrate on controlling fish diseases that occur on fish farms. The problem of diseases affecting fish is a very serious one that should receive comprehensive coverage and attention. Your Committee is of the view that natural water bodies must be covered in the assessment and inspection as well as restocking. It further recommends that the category be expanded to cover other aquatic life forms that also harbour or suffer from diseases.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, while noting the stakeholders’ concerns, supports the Bill. In supporting the Bill, your Committee urges the Government to consider the concerns of stakeholders as well as its observations and recommendations which are highlighted in the report.

Madam, in conclusion, the hon. Members of your Committee are very grateful to you for giving them an opportunity to scrutinise this Bill. Your Committee is also indebted to all the witnesses that appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs despite the short notice.

Madam Speaker, I wish to register my appreciation to all the hon. Members of your Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of the Committee. Allow me to also thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the advice and service rendered during the deliberations of your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development for bringing this Bill to the House although I feel it is coming a little late. I think this Bill is important because, as we are all aware, most of our rural folks depend on farming and livestock for the production of their food. As I speak today, I am a very sad person because people in Katuba who had big herds have lost all of their animals. People have become sick not because of human diseases, but because of the stress that has resulted from losing their animals. I do not know how most people in my constituency are going to produce crops, this year, because they rely on animal drawn ploughs, but diseases in the area have killed most kraals.

Madam Speaker, as I support this Bill, I just hope that there will not be an outbreak of a disease I call ‘lack of implementation because of lack of funds’. It is sad that we should, sometimes, make a lot of demands from our people for us to assist them. As much as we need people to participate, the art of governance entails that governments should spearhead development. If people were asked to run their own affairs, there would be no need for governments. 

The Government in this country has to assist the people in bringing about development. It is, therefore, not right to ask people to make contributions before they are helped. In my area, people are failing to take children to school or even pay K1,000 for chloroquine so that they are cured of malaria. This is because of lack of productivity and employment. In other words, there is just basic poverty.

Now, the way this Bill is coming, I hope it is going to help us …

Mr Simbao: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa left his microphone on.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Switch off your microphone, hon. Member for Katuba.

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. As we speak, the whole country is listening to us and, therefore, we need to give factual information. The issue of malaria is very important in this country. No one pays for chloroquine anywhere. Therefore, is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to tell the Zambian public that they have to pay for chloroquine when they have malaria? I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member debating may have to put that point of order into consideration for him to state clearly his case so as to avoid misleading the public.

You may continue, please.

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam, I want to reemphasise that the people out there lack money. For the hon. Minister’s information, there are no drugs in some health centres and people are just given prescriptions to go and buy medicines on their own. This is why I am saying that people cannot afford to get treatment for certain diseases. I am not merely politicking because this is the real situation on the ground and I am talking on behalf of the people that sent me here.  Mine is the voice of the voiceless who voted for me to come here and represent them. I am in touch with the people on the ground and, therefore, know the reality of what is happening in my area.

Madam Speaker, I am happy that we are now talking of setting up a fund. I hope that, soon, money is going to be made available for this. We should not only ask villagers to control, treat or inoculate their animals, but also provide facilities for this. For example, we should build dipping tanks as it is very expensive to manually spray animals. The medicines used for treating animals are very expensive. 

So, the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development will do well to complement the work of farmers by putting, within reasonable radiuses, dipping facilities. These facilities should also include the initial medication for tick control. This would really help our rural folks. 

Madam Speaker, the situation in this country is that unemployment is very high. We are, however, lucky because of the productivity of our rural farmers, who are self employed. On the other hand, they cannot be very productive without tools. I, therefore, commend and support this timely Bill which is going to allow us to uplift the status of our rural folks. We will be able to reduce poverty in rural areas. If what has been outlined in this Bill is going to be implemented, the people will feel that the Government cares for them. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Madam Speaker, I am going to be very brief. I support the Bill and hope that it is going to be passed because my constituency is one of those that has very unhealthy animals due to diseases. I want to inform the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development that my constituency needs disinfectants. As people enter Katombola from the Western Province, they have to be treated at Kasala.  There should also be another treatment point at Simwami for those coming from Zimba, because my constituency has a lot of animal diseases. 

I know that treatment facilities are expensive, but we can find a cheap source. I am also aware that there was somebody who should have built these facilities in the country at about K500 million each, but some other people, who think they have more expertise and are asking for more money, have been asked to do this.

Madam Speaker, this is an issue we need to take up as hon. Members of Parliament more especially us who come from the Southern Province. We want those things built.

Madam Speaker, I have also said that in all areas, we need an abattoir and in Mwandi …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Is the hon. Member debating the Act?

The hon. Member will not bring issues on the Floor of this House of her constituency only, but those contained in the Bill and the report.

Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the health of animals in the country is very important. Maybe, let me state that instead of providing those disinfectant chemicals in my constituency alone, they be provided in other constituencies as well …

Hon. UPND Members: Kaputa!

Mrs Musokotwane: Yes, in Kaputa, except that we are very much aware that there are more sick animals in my constituency than anywhere else. I have places like Sikaunzwe where animals have died of various diseases and the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives will bear me witness that people are now pet hauling before their animals die of diseases. Therefore, if we controlled these diseases, our animals would be healthy.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I am obliged to the House for the overwhelming support for the Bill. I have taken note of the comments from the hon. Members for Kalomo, Katuba and Kazungula.

Madam Speaker, briefly on the issue stressed by the hon. Member for Kalomo, I wish to advise that this issue is going to be extensively covered under a review that is underway with regards to the Fisheries Act. 

With regards to the designation of the livestock population in Katuba, again, we are hopping and expecting that this is an issue that will soon become a thing of the past in that particular area. We have also dully noted the concerns of the hon. Member for Kazungula. 

With those few remarks, we are most obliged.

I thank you.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 5th August, 2010

THE ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Madam Speaker, again, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to present my ministry’s second reading speech for the Animal Identification, Bill, 2010. This Bill is being presented to this House for accession into the Animal Identification Act, 2010 in order to:

(i)    provide for the registration of animal identification marks and marking operators;
    
(ii)    provide for the appointment of registrar of animal identification;

(iii)    to repeal and replace the Brands Act, 1913; and

(iv)    provide for matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, the Brands Act, 1913 will be repealed and replaced by the Animal Identification Bill, 2010. The current Brands Act focuses mainly on cattle and horses with little emphasis on other species and does not include more recent and efficient methods of animal identification.

Furthermore, it is intended that the Animal Identification Bill of 2010 will help in:

(i)    providing for the unification of current trends of moving towards the removal of fencing (previously used to separate animal population), which will also enable communities to live without impediments to their daily lives;

(ii)    reduction of livestock thefts, a scourge that has limited investment into the livestock sector;

(iii)    in relation to public health threats of zoonotic diseases, it will enable veterinary officers to trace the point of origin of any disease or other threats; and

(iv)    integrating modern methods of animal identification such as electronic devises and deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) for the tracing of animals and animal products from their point of origin, such as from farm to fork.

In conclusion, I urge this august House to pass the Animal Identification Bill, 2010.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight a few issues contained in your Committee’s report on the Animal Identification Bill, 2010, referred to the Committee on 14th July, 2010 and laid on the Table of the House on 3rd August, 2010.

It is my hope that hon. Members have taken time to read the report so that my role will only be to highlight those issues that caught the attention of the Committee during its deliberations.

Madam Speaker, the objectives of the Bill are to provide for the registration of animal identification marks, marking operators and the appointment of the register of animal identification. The Bill also repeals and replaces the Brands Act and provides for other ancillary matters.

I would like to indicate from the outset that your Committee supports the Bill. Your Committee notes that the enactment of this Bill will ensure that standards of production of livestock are improved through enhanced livestock identification systems. This will, in turn, facilitate access to international markets and thereby promote the development of a more competitive and sustainable livestock sector.

Madam Speaker, during the time your Committee was considering the Bill, various concerns were expressed by stakeholders that were invited to give their input on the ramifications of the Bill.

Madam Speaker, the stakeholders that appeared before your Committee lamented over the short period of time that they were given to study and analyse the Bill in order for them to appear before your Committee and make meaningful submissions. As such, stakeholders either declined to make submissions to your Committee citing lack of time or those that appeared before it focused on areas of the Bill that directly affected them.

Madam Speaker, among the notable concerns raised by the stakeholders was on whether there was need for renewal of the animal identification marks as the Bill proposes that the animal identification mark will be valid for a period of five years. Some stakeholders questioned the motive behind the fixing of the validity period and wondered if this was a ploy by the Government to raise revenue.

Madam Speaker, other stakeholders, however, stated that the insertion of the five year validity period of the animal identification mark was as important as it would accord the Government an opportunity to know about the origin and movements of animals. Further, the system would enable the Government, through the ministry responsible, for livestock to maintain an updated database of all animals falling under the Act.

Madam Speaker, some stakeholders further questioned the capacity of the ministry responsible for livestock to implement a compulsory marking of all animals countrywide with the prescribed animal identification marks. The doubt was cast against the background that the ministry was still new and did not have a full staff complement yet. As a result, it was thought that the ministry would not be able to conduct countrywide sensitisation on the provisions of the Bill.

Madam Speaker, your Committee made some observations and recommendations during its meetings. It observed that the term ‘animal’ has not been well defined in the interpretation clause of the Bill and latitude has been given to the Minister to use his discretion to declare, through a gazette notice, what animals will be subject to the provisions of the Bill. Your Committee recommends that a more clear definition of the word ‘animal’ be inserted instead of leaving it to the hon. Minister to determine which animals the Act shall apply to.

Madam Speaker, your Committee welcomes the clause which fixes the period of validity of the animal identification mark to five years. This move will enable the Government have an updated data base of the identification marks that it has issued. It welcomes this clause as it is only through such measures that the country will be able to export livestock products to other countries. Further, the system of registering animals will lead to enhanced methods of tracing the origins of each animal. The quarantining of animals in the event of outbreaks of diseases will also be easier to enforce as animals bearing numbers of the quarantined areas will be restricted.

Your Committee, in welcoming the provisions of the Bill, urges the Government to ensure that all the agricultural camps are fully manned by qualified manpower for the law that is being proposed to be implemented effectively. Your Committee recommends that ample time always be given to stakeholders to study the Bills before they are asked to appear before it. This will be a positive move in enhancing the parliamentary reforms as the contributions of the public will be more appreciated if sufficient time is given to them to research on the Bills.
In conclusion, the Members of your Committee are very grateful to you, Madam, for giving them an opportunity to scrutinise this Bill. Your Committee is also indebted to all the witnesses that appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs despite the short notice.

Madam Speaker, I wish to register my appreciation to all the Members of your Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of the Committee. Allow me to also thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the advice and services rendered during the deliberations of your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I will be brief. 

Madam Speaker, the identification mark is going to be valid only for five years and the registrar also has the right to reject the application for the renewal of the identification mark. Therefore, what will happen to the identification mark because animals will continue producing? Does one keep the old mark or not when their application for a new one is rejected?  What happens to those animals that are produced when the identification mark application is rejected? The reason the registrar will give is not important, but the animals need to be branded. If an animal is not marked as prescribed, it will not be sold. 

Therefore, Madam Speaker, we need another Act where the Government, through the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development, should create an animal or cattle market. Once this is done, it will be easy for the agricultural officers to ask whether permission has been granted from the registrar because selling and buying will be done at one point.  If, for example, I am going to sell my heifer or bull to Hon. Hachipuka and both of us are in Chisamba, it will be easy for the whole process to be done because both of us will be at one point.

Interruptions

Mrs Musokotwane: Hon. Hachipuka and I have farms in Chisamba. 

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You may continue.

Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, it is not fair that the transaction of only one cow should seek authorisation from the registrar when both the buyer and seller’s farms are located in the same area. However, if the ministry is going to create a cattle market, then it will be easier because this will enable the seller and buyer transact at a point where officers will be in place to look into these issues. At the moment, the officers have problems in ensuring that animals sold are marked in the right place or establishing that permission was granted by the registrar for a cow to be sold.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, we have taken note of the concerns of the hon. Member for Katombola, and these are some of the issues that have come through from the Committee and will be dealt with at Committee Stage. 

Again, Madam, I wish to thank the House for its overwhelming support for this Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.

THE CATTLE CLEANSING (Repeal) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to present the Second Reading for the Cattle Cleansing (Repeal) Bill, 2010.

Madam Speaker, the Cattle Cleansing Act was enacted in 1930 and provided for the cleansing of cattle, measures to be taken when there is a serious disease outbreak as well as modalities of petitioning the Minister to apply the provisions of the Act. However, the Act has become outdated due to the existence of modern methods of cattle cleansing.

Consequently, Madam Speaker, the objective of the Cattle Cleansing (Repeal) Bill, 2010 is to facilitate the enactment of comprehensive legislation as provisions relating to cattle cleansing will be provided for in the Animal Health Bill, 2010.

With these few remarks, Madam Speaker, I wish to urge this House to pass this Bill so that the health issues in our livestock industry are properly regulated.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight a few issues contained in your Committee’s report on the Cattle Cleansing (Repeal) Bill, 2010, referred to it on 14th July, 2010 and laid on the Table of the House on 3rd August, 2010.

Madam Speaker, the object of the Bill is to repeal the Cattle Cleansing Act Cap. 249 of the Laws of Zambia. The Bill proposes that, through its repeal, a more progressive legislation aimed at preventing and managing outbreaks of serious animal diseases be enacted.

Madam Speaker, witnesses who appeared before your Committee supported the Bill. They submitted that the repeal of the Act was long overdue as it was enacted in 1930. Therefore, with the technological advancements in combating animal diseases, most of the provisions of the Act are no longer applicable in the prevention and control of animal diseases. 

Madam, Your Committee supports the Bill as it is non-contentious. Your Committee fully subscribes to the idea of enacting comprehensive legislation that will contribute to poverty alleviation and employment creation. This will ensure an effective and efficient protection of animal health by preventing and controlling animal diseases.

In conclusion, Members of your Committee are grateful to you, Madam Speaker, for giving them the opportunity to scrutinise this Bill. Your Committee is also indebted to all the witnesses that appeared before it for their co-operation in providing necessary memoranda and briefs despite the short notice.

Madam Speaker, I wish to register my appreciation to all the Members of the Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of the Committee.

Allow me also to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the advice and services rendered to your Committee during the deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Madam Speaker, I want to welcome and support this Bill that is before us. This time around, we can say that the Government is working …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: …because it has brought, before the House, a Bill that deals with cattle.

Madam Speaker, many animals have died in my constituency, this year, because of the many mysterious diseases around. We commend the hon. Minister for coming up with this Bill which talks about cleansing of animals using the dipping method. 

Madam Speaker, let me hasten to say that dipping needs a lot of …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! This Bill is just a repeal. There is no content. So, which content are you debating?

Laughter

Mr Chazangwe:  Madam Speaker, I agree with you, Madam.

 I thank you, Madam. 

Laughter

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I am grateful to the House for its overwhelming support for this Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.

THE TSETSE CONTROL (REPEAL) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you, once again, for giving me the opportunity to present a speech for the Second Reading on the Tsetse Control (Repeal) Bill, 2010. 

Madam Speaker, the main object of this Bill is to repeal the Tsetse Control Act Cap. 249 of the Laws of Zambia so as to facilitate the enactment of comprehensive legislation that will develop an efficient and self-sustaining agricultural sector with regards to animal health. 

Two thirds of Zambian ranching land is infested with Tsetse flies, thereby, limiting its use for animal husbandry. Tsetse control is, therefore, of utmost importance to increased livestock production.

Furthermore, this Bill will contribute to improved human health by providing enhanced prevention, control and eradication of Tsetse flies which spread sleeping sickness to human beings. 

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I wish to urge the House to pass this Bill in order to improve animal welfare and safeguard the supply and safety of food.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight a few issues contained in your Committee’s report on the Tsetse Control (Repeal) Bill, 2010 referred to it on 14th July, 2010 and laid on the Table of the House on 3rd August 2010.

Madam Speaker, the object of the Bill is to repeal the Tsetse Control Act Chapter 249 of the Laws of Zambia. I would like to state from the outset that your Committee supports the Bill.

Your Committee is cognisant of the fact that some progressive provisions of the repealed Act will now be inserted in a new comprehensive legislation on animal health. Your Committee, therefore, supports the Bill as its intention is to pave way for the introduction of legislation that will meet the challenges of modern times. 

In conclusion, the Members of your Committee are grateful to you, Madam, for giving them the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill. 

Your Committee is also indebted to all witnesses that appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs. 

Madam Speaker, I wish to register my appreciation to all Members of your Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of your Committee. 

Allow me also to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the advice and services rendered to your Committee during its deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, again, I am most grateful for the overwhelming support of the House. 

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.

THE CATTLE SLAUGHTER (CONTROL) (REPEAL) BILL, 2010

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to present my ministry’s second reading speech for the Cattle Slaughter (Control) (Repeal) Bill, 2010. 

Madam, the Slaughter (Control) (Repeal) Act was enacted in 1948 in order to control the slaughter of immature and breeding cattle. However, it has become outdated and, as a result, does not conform to international standards and the new technologies used to develop the livestock industry in line with the current environment.

The Cattle Slaughter (Control) (Repeal) Bill of 2010, intends to repeal the Cattle Slaughter (Control) Act so as facilitate the enactment of legislation that is responsive to developments in the field of animal health. 

In addition, with the enactment of this Bill, matters relating to the slaughter of all livestock and not only cattle will be provided for in the Animal Health Bill, 2010, which contains provisions dealing with the slaughter of immature and breeding livestock as well as the destruction or disposal of infected animals.

Madam Speaker, with these remarks, I wish to urge this House to pass this Bill in order to pave way for the enactment of an updated and comprehensive Animal Health Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight a few issues contained in the your Committee’s Report on the Cattle Slaughter (Control) (Repeal) Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 30 of 2010 referred to it on 14th July, 2010 and laid on the Table of House on 3rd August, 2010. The object of the Bill is to repeal the Cattle Slaughter (Control) Act, Cap. 250 of the Laws of Zambia.

Madam, I would like to indicate, from the outset, that your Committee supports this Bill as its repeal is intended to pave way for the enactment of a more comprehensive and updated legislation on the control of slaughter of cattle.

The repeal of the Cattle Slaughter (Control) Act will pave way for the transfer of some provisions of the Act to one harmonised piece of legislation. Through the repeal, it is further anticipated that a more elaborate legislation aimed at developing a proficient and self-sustaining agricultural sector will be enacted.

Madam Speaker, all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee supported the Bill. They submitted that the intention of the Government to repeal the Bill, as a means of paving way for the enactment of an updated and progressive legislation, was a good gesture. Your Committee, therefore, supports this Bill.

In conclusion, Members of your Committee are grateful to you, Madam Speaker, for giving them the opportunity to scrutinise this Bill. Your Committee is also indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs, despite that short notice.

Madam, I wish to register my appreciation to all the Members of your Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of the Committee. Allow me to also thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the advice and services rendered to your Committee during its deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, once again, we are most grateful to the House for its overwhelming support for this Bill and the legislation that has already been considered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.

THE AGRICULTURE (FERTILISERS AND FEED) (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Daka): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Daka: Madam Speaker, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: … I thank you for giving me the opportunity to present my ministry’s second speech for the Agriculture Fertiliser and Feed (Amendment) Bill, 2010.

Madam Speaker, due to the liberalisation of the Zambian economy in 1991, there was an influx of different types of fertilisers onto the market that required to be controlled. Increased fertiliser importation as well as …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Daka: Madam Speaker, I thank you, once again, for giving me the opportunity to present my ministry’s second reading speech for the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) (Amendment) Bill, 2010.

Madam, due to the liberalisation of the Zambian economy in 1991, there was an influx of different types of fertilisers on the market that required to be controlled. Increased fertiliser importation as well as recent scientific industrial developments has resulted in the multiplication of fertilisers, including blended and foliar fertiliser types. This has effectively added a new approach to the protective role of the fertiliser legislation in order to provide for the protection of the purchaser against fertilisers that are not suitable for certain soil conditions and crops.

Madam Speaker, the main objects of the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) (Amendment) Bill, 2010 are to:

(i)    repeal the provisions relating to the regulation of farm feed; and 

(ii)    provide for matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing.

It is envisaged that when these objectives are met, they will provide greater stability in regulating the fertiliser industry in order for it to be efficient and self-sustaining so as to effectively contribute towards wealth creation, household and national food security and creation of employment and wealth.

Madam, moreover, the enactment of the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) (Amendment) Bill, 2010, will accrue benefits such as:

(i)    the regulation and control of fertiliser importation, manufacturing, processing and sale in the country;
(ii)    efficient use of fertilisers by small-scale farmers in order to increase production and yields;

(iii)    protection of fertiliser users from exploitation by unscrupulous fertiliser dealers; and 

(iv)    legal prosecution and imposition of stricter penalties on individuals found contravening the Act.

Madam, agriculture production in Zambia, over the years, for most of the major crops such as maize, cassava, mixed beans, groundnuts and cotton has been increasing. For example, in the 2009/2010 agricultural seasons, we have managed to produce close to 2.8 million metric tonnes of maize, indicating an increase of 48 per cent or 908,473 metric tonnes more than the 1.8 million metric tonnes that were produced during the 2008/2009 agricultural season. This increase can be attributed to, among other factors, increased use of fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, as a result of the gradual increase in the use of fertiliser under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) to 106,838 metric tonnes in the 2009/2010 agricultural seasons from 80,000 metric tones, the previous year, by our small-scale farmers, the Government is obliged to address any possible concern that may arise with regards to fertiliser manufacturing, importation and use.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I have no doubt that the agricultural sector will improve and continue recording success with the enactment of the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) (Amendment) Bill of 2010 as it will improve service delivery in the fertiliser industry.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to brief this august House on matters pertaining to the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) (Amendment) Bill, 2010 which was referred to your Committee on Agriculture and Lands on 14th July, 2010 for scrutiny.

Madam Speaker, your Committee considered the Bill in detail with the help of various stakeholders whom it invited as witnesses. Your Committee wishes to inform the House that most stakeholders are in support of the Bill. The Bill seeks to amend the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) Act so as to repeal the provisions relating to the regulation of farm feed and provide for matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing. 

Let me hasten to state that your Committee also supports the Bill. Madam Speaker, in supporting the Bill, let me also mention that the stakeholders raised concern on the title of this Bill. They argued that following the amendment to remove all aspects of farm feed, the Bill should be renamed as the Agriculture (Fertilisers) (Amendment) Bill, 2010. Furthermore, stakeholders were of the view that the long title should be amended by the deletion of the words, ‘Agricultural Fertilisers’ and ‘Fertilisers’. These words should instead be replaced with the term, ‘Farming Requisites’ which is more encompassing.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that the focus of the Agriculture (Fertilisers and Feed) Act shall now remain on fertiliser, and, therefore, welcomes the development. Your Committee is alive to the fact that the nation has seen an influx of different types of fertilisers on the market, following the liberalisation of the economy. Therefore, there is a need for effective regulation of fertilisers. Additionally, the amendment of the law will ensure that the interests of the various stakeholders are safeguarded.

Madam, your Committee urges the Government to ensure that the law is enforced for the benefit of all stakeholders and the nation.

Madam Speaker, your Committee welcomes the revision of the penalties for various offences committed under this Act and hopes that they will serve as a deterrent to would-be offenders. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to sensitise the public on the provisions of the Act so that all stakeholders are aware of their responsibilities under this law.

Madam Speaker, on a sad note, your Committee is concerned that some fertiliser dealers have been selling fertiliser sweepings on the market. Fertiliser sweepings are dangerous to the soil and the crops because the nutrient elements contained therein are not known. Sweepings can contain anything, including sand, stones, chemicals or any other poisonous substance.

In this regard, your Committee recommends that inspectors and other public officers cited in the Act be more proactive in monitoring compliance with the provisions of the Act. In addition, the public should be sensitised on the dangers of using sweepings on farms.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee wishes to express its appreciation to the witnesses who made submissions before it despite the short notice. I also commend the members of your Committee and the Office of the Clerk for their dedication to duty during the considerations of the Bill. Let me end by stating that your Committee is grateful for granting it the opportunity to study the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Daka: Madam Speaker, we have taken note of the concerns that the Committee has raised. Compound D fertiliser has 10 per cent of nitrogen, 20 per cent of phosphorous, 10 per cent of potassium and 8 per cent of sulphur. Urea has 48 per cent of nitrogen. Therefore, the sweepings are not fertilisers. We have taken note of this point. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committee to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.{mospagebreak}

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in 
the Chair]

THE COPYRIGHT AND PERFORMANCE RIGHTS (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 

CLAUSE 3 – (Repeal and Replacement of Section 28)

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 3, on page 5, in lines 23 to 25 by the deletion of the words “delivered up to the owner of the copyright in question or otherwise dealt with as the court thinks fit” and the substitution therefor of the words “dealt with as the court may direct”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly. 

Clause 3, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. 

Clauses 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to. 

THE INDEPENDENT BROADCASTING AUTHORITY (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 6 – (Amendment of Section 7)

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 6, on page 5, in lines 4 to 8 by the deletion of clause 6 and the substitution therefor of the following new clause 6:

6. Section seven of the principal Act is amended in subsection (2) by the deletion of the word “recommendation” and the substitution therefor of the word “submission”.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, on this side of the House, we do not agree with this amendment and, therefore, are going to vote “No” because it is not in line with the spirit of streamlined operations of the authority for which this Act is being amended. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, the amendment that we propose, on this side of the House, is actually in the spirit of streamlining operations of the authority so that there is an Appointments Committee that submits names to the Minister. 

We are aware of the ruling of the Supreme Court in the matter concerning the Appointments Committee and the efficacy of the appointments. We are also aware that the ruling of the Supreme Court was that the law, as crafted by this House, was that the Appointments Committee would make recommendations. Nonetheless, we also ought to ask ourselves whether it was the intention of Parliament when that piece of legislation was being passed.   

Mr Chairperson, my contention is that it was not the spirit. The spirit of Parliament was that the Appointments Committee would submit names to the Minister for him to present them for ratification. To prove my case, I have a copy of the Hansards before me and I would like to quote the then hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, Mr Newstead Zimba. 

Mr Chairperson, Mr Newstead Zimba was the Minister at the time this piece of legislation was brought to Parliament for enactment. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: He was not doing it for himself, but for the then Government and the people of this country. Therefore, to try and disown what he said is mischievous and trivial. When he came here, he had the authority of the Head of State. What he said, therefore, is a matter of reference and all of us can refer to that record. 

Sir, when he was winding up debate, he said:

“The three draft Private Bills the Opposition have provided for Appointments Committees, we take it that the Appointments Committees are based on organisations from which the President or Minister will appoint members. Thereafter, the Appointments Committee will submit names of appointees subject to ratification by this august Assembly. That is what we have done. So, we have accepted their proposals.”

Mr Chairperson, this is what the then Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, Mr Newstead Zimba, said on the Floor of this House. 

Hon. MMD Member: So what?

Mr Lubinda: The intention was that the Appointments Committee would submit names for the Minister to bring to this august House for ratification. 

If I were to be allowed, I would even quote what the then Minister of Justice who was also Attorney-General said on the matter. For the interest of the now Vice-President and Minster of Justice, let me quote what his colleague the then Minister of Justice and Attorney-General said. 

Sir, the then Minister of Justice and Attorney-General, the learned Mr George Kunda, SC. now His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice said the following:

“The appointment of the board will be through a transparent process. Names of members of the board will be brought to the House for ratification. Powers of the hon. Minister will inevitably have to apply only, for example, where we are dealing with money issues”.

Mr Chairperson, these are the words of the then Learned Minister of Justice and Attorney-General, the current Vice-President and Learned Minister of Justice …

Mrs Phiri: Chikabwela!

Mr Lubinda: … in agreeing to have an appointment committee submitting names to the hon. Minister.

Sir, all we are doing on this side of this House is to bring back the spirit with which this House collectively passed the Independent Broadcasting Authority Act in 2002. Doing what the Government is intending to do is to somersault. It is not that we are not surprised because we are used to that but, on this particular matter, we would like to assist ourselves to ensure that we do that the then Minister of Justice said inevitably the power of the hon. Minister must be limited to issues of money, but not issues of appointments of members of the board. It is as easy as that. We are not changing anything from the initial intention of Parliament.

Sir, for that reason, I would like to appeal that we need not call for a division on a matter that is so straightforward. May we make progress by insuring that we do that which the people of Zambia expected of us bearing in mind that the Independent Broadcasting Authority Act was brought before this House because of the demands of the people there. It was society that agitated for passing this piece of legislation.

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to reply to the submissions from Hon. Lubinda.

Sir, from the out set, I wish to say that what he has said is archaic.

 Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice:  It is outdated because he forgot to mention that I actually appeared before the court for the case he is talking about. The problem was that the concept of Appointments Committee making recommendations was bringing problems because the committee members appointed their friends to sit on the Independent Broadcast Authority. Therefore, the hon. Minister then, who is now our Deputy Speaker, objected to those names which were submitted. Thereafter, we went to court and won the case.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I effectively represented the Government and won the case.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, we do not accept the concept of Appointments Committee. It is for this reason that we rejected the issue at the Second Reading of the Bill because it is trying to bring through these amendments in Clause 6 and the other amendment which is related to this. 

Sir, our current position, on this side of the House, is that the hon. Minister should appoint members of the board of the authority and not what the hon. Member is talking about.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, we know that the issues of 2002 are in the Hansards, but that is not our position at the moment. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for allowing me to contribute to this debate. You may have noticed that I have not debated much during this session. Therefore, for me to stand up, I feel very strongly about this issue.

Sir, in supporting the amendment by Hon. Lubinda, I wish to start by thanking him. I had an opportunity to sit on two committees and I have seen a trend which I want to talk about and which we, as a nation and as a people, should take very seriously.

Sir, I had an opportunity of sitting on two committees which …

Mr Chairperson: Order! 

Could the hon. Member, please, limit himself to this particular amendment so that we do not have a cross country debate.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, it is a trend which …

Mr Chairperson: Hon. Member, I said, please, stick to this particular amendment before the House.

Mr Simuusa: Sir, I have seen a trend where the Government is constantly adopting a stance of what I would describe as bamba zonke vesting all the power in the hon. Minister.

Mr Chairperson, initially, you may have noticed that the Government moved an amendment in Clause 6 which said that the board shall consist of nine part-time members appointed by the hon. Minister. The original Act said the board shall consist of nine part-time members appointed by the hon. Minister on the recommendation of the Appointments Committee subject to ratification by the National Assembly. 

Mr Chairperson, the Government’s suggestion is to have powers removed from two very important institutions, the National Assembly and the committee, which His Honour the Vice-President. I know that they want to bring back the National Assembly in the amendment, but what is their intention? Initially, they want to remove all powers and leave it with the Minister.

Mr Chairperson, what are we trying to achieve? What is the Government so jittery about? What it is showing are symptoms of people who are jittery. When we say that a committee is going to propose names to the hon. Minister, as Zambians, we are saying that we want fair representation and a wide coverage of people.

Sir, the Vice-President said that the Government did not agree on certain issues because the committee members chose their friends. Now, if they did not agree based on that, what makes them think that everybody in this country will be happy with whoever the hon. Minister chooses. That is a big problem. The reason that has been given of the committee members choosing their friends is the very one we are also giving. The members of the Executive should not choose their friends. Let us be open and fair.

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!  

Mr Simuusa: Sir, I support this amendment so that we can balance power. As a nation, let us be serious so that we do not trivialise such important issues. What we are going to create is an animal that we will fail to tame.

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa: There is a wise saying in English which says,

Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilembo: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member in order to continue engaging in a cross country debate when there is a specific issue before this House. I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Chairperson: Order! 

I have tried to follow the hon. Member who is on the Floor. I think, so far, he is within context.

He may continue, please.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, let me make it very clear that the amendment which is before the House is seeking to replace the word ‘recommendation’ with the word ‘submission.’

Sir, when you say recommendation by the committee, you are saying that when the recommendation goes to the hon. Minister, the hon. Minister has the power to either accept or reject that recommendation.

 Mr D. Mwila: Yes!

Mr Simuusa: Therefore, ‘recommendation’ implies that it shall be a submission which means that when a committee submits their names, they should brought to Parliament for debate so that the hon. Minister does not doctor that list to put his friends or cadres on it. 

In debating this amendment, I wish to state that the principle and spirit we are looking for in this country is the balance of power. As Zambians, we have every right in this country to be correctly represented in important institutions such as the International Broadcasting Authority.

I have seen a trend …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order. It is Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) and not international.

Mr Simuusa: I meant the IBA. Thank you for the correction.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, I have seen symptoms of a deeper problem that we have in this country and it is reflected in the putting together of all the other Bills that I have been privileged to be part of. All of them are stripping power off the people and giving it to the Hon. Ministers. Through most Bills, the Minister can appoint and fire a board member with no reasons. He or she can also appoint anybody as chairperson or vice-chairperson of a board. Why are we giving powers to the hon. Ministers in all these Bills? What are we trying to achieve?

As a country and as a House, I think that we have a moral responsibility to share power so that when this authority is operational, it works smoothly.

Mr Chairperson, these amendments are coming eight years after the Bill was passed. I was not in the House in 2002 when this Bill was passed. Eight years later, this authority is not yet operational. What are we afraid of? 

Sir, I took time to read the original Act and it is a very good piece of legislation. It provides for an independent board which is open and transparent. If it had been operationalised, the media in the broadcasting sector would have more freedom

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The issue you are talking about is totally different from what is on the Floor of this House. Would you please confine yourself to the matter which is being debated now which is the amendment?

Confine yourself to that only, please.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, I will come to other points in the next amendment. For now, my submission is that, as a country and as a Parliament, we need to look at issues more objectively instead of using the arrogance of numbers to prove that we are the boma.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, we need to do some right things for this country instead of us just being arrogant. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Chairperson, I will be brief in my contribution.

Sir, it appears that we are trying to misinterpret the Supreme Court’s ruling.

Hon. Government Members: How?

Mr Kapeya: The Supreme Court’s ruling was very clear. It never mentioned the abolition of the Appointments Committee. It only said that the committee should recommend names to the hon. Minister who will then look into those recommendations and forward them to Parliament for ratification. It is that simple and straightforward, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: We should not bring in the Supreme Court’s ruling as an excuse to do away with the Appointments Committee.

Mr Chairperson, I had promised to be brief in my contribution, but I wish to add that broadcasting is a very sensitive industry in this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Therefore, we need to be very careful as we handle issues that concern it. There is a greater need to involve a lot of stakeholders in the management of this industry.

Mrs Phiri: Mulongoti!

Mr Kapeya: I see no reason we should not maintain the Appointments Committee. By doing so, we are not in any way taking away power from the hon. Minister.
 
Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Kapeya: The Minister will have the opportunity to scrutinise the recommended names.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: If he is not satisfied with the recommended names, he can still do away with the list.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: In fact, Mr Chairperson, he can even go further to suggest that the committee come up with twelve or fourteen names, then out of that list, the Minister can choose nine.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: May the Executive take note of the sensitivity of the broadcasting industry in this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, I rise to reject the amendment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: In the governance of a nation, there comes a time when an elected government has to take certain steps at a particular stage. My rejection of the amendment comes at a time just after a country just across our borders, Zimbabwe, was facing stiff problems associated with the media and the international community. The Zimbabwean Government had to take steps similar to ours in order to hold the country together.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: They did that through none other than Dr Moyo, who at the time was their Minister of Information. Mr Chairperson, they held the country together and took it to a point where Zimbabwe is now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where is it?

Major Chizhyuka: They have held what they stood for. If one went to Zimbabwe, today, they would find …

Mr Lubinda Interjected

Major Chizhyuka: I am giving a parallel, Mr Chairperson. They would find that, in the next two to three years, that country might be far much better in most sectors than ours. When you see something is not right, you have to hold the country together. That is why you get elected into government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Therefore, I reject this amendment. I have seen certain things that tell me that it is right, at this point in time, to ensure that we do as has already been suggested and not as is contained in the amendment. That is my debate, Sir.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members called for a division.

Ayes – (31)

Mrs E. M. Banda
Mr Chanda
Mr Chazangwe
Mr Chisala
Mr Chota
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Hamusonde
Mr Kamondo
Mr Kapeya
Mr Kasoko
Mr Kasongo
Dr Katema
Mr Katuka
Mr Lubinda
Mr Malama
Mr Mukanga
Mr C. Mulenga
Mr L.J. Mulenga
Mr Muntanga
Mr Mushili
Mrs Musokotwane
Mr Muyanda
Mr Mweemba
Mr Mwenya
Mr Mwiimbu
Mr D. Mwila
Mr Nkombo
Mrs Phiri

Dr Scott

Mr Simuusa
Mr Sing’ombe

Noes – (55)

Mr I. Banda
Mr W. Banda
Ms Changwe
Major Chibamba
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chimbaka
Mr Chinyanta
Mr Chisanga
Dr Chishya
Major Chizhyuka
Ms Cifire
Mr Daka
Mr Imasiku
Mr Kachimba
Mr Kakusa
Mr Kalenga
Dr Kalila
Dr Kazonga
Mr Kunda
Ms Lundwe
Mr Lungu
Mr Machila
Dr Machungwa
Mr Magande
Mr Malwa
Mr Mangani
Mr Mbewe
Mr Misapa
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mukuma
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Munkombwe
Dr Musonda
Mr Muteteka
Mr Mwaanga
Mr M. B. Mwale
Mr V. Mwale
Mr Mwangala
Mr Mwanza
Mr B. Y. Mwila
Mr Namulambe
Mr Nkhata
Mr Pande
Mr Shawa
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sikazwe
Ms Siliya
Mr Simbao
Mrs Sinyangwe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr F. R. Tembo
Ms V. Tembo

Abstentions – (02)

Msichili
Munaile

Question that Clause 6 be amended put and negatived.

Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 7 ─ (Repeal of section 8)

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the proposed amendment in Clause 7, on page 5, in line 9 is related to the one that was proposed in Clause 6 and …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! May the hon. Member, please, move the amendment first of all.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, in view of the arrogance of numbers …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I wish to withdraw the proposed amendment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

Amendment, by leave, accordingly withdrawn.

Clause 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 8 ─ (Amendment of section 10)

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 8, on page 5, in line 16 by the insertion immediately after the word “and” of the words “subject to ratification by the National Assembly”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 8, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 9 ─ (Repeal and replacement of Part IV)

Mr Lubinda: I propose an amendment in Clause 9:
 
(a)    on page 5, in lines 28 and 34 by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”.

(b)    on page 6:

(i)    in line 1 by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”.

(ii)    in line 3 by the insertion of the words “or a renewal thereof” immediately after the words “broadcasting licence”; and

(iii)    in lines 4, 6, 8 and 11 by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”.

(c)    on page 7

(i)    in line 1 by the deletion of paragraph (c);

(ii)    in lines 9 to 12 by the deletion of paragraphs (e) and (f);

(iii)    by the re-numbering of paragraphs (d) (g) (h) and (i) as paragraphs (c) (d) (e) and (f), respectively; and

(iv)    in line 23 by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”.

(d)    On page 9

(i)    in line 2 by the deletion of the word “specifically” immediately before the words “with religious”;

(ii)    after line 30 by the insertion of the following new subclause (2):

“2. The Authority shall, within thirty days of receipt of an application under subclause (1), grant or reject the application.”; and

(iii)    in lines 31 and 33 by the renumbering of subclauses (2) and (3) as subclauses (30 and (4), respectively; and

(e)    on page 10, in lines 33 and 36 by the deletion of paragraph (j) and (k).

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, we totally reject these amendments …

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … because they are inconsistent with the Act we are trying to amend. Some of the provisions which the hon. Member wants amended are required for the proper functioning of the board. For example, he does not want the board to charge fees. We cannot accept such amendments. 

He has moved a blank amendment to various lines and we reject it for the reason which I have given. Like I said, this amendment is inconsistent with the main Act. Some of the provisions which he wishes to remove are contrary to the spirit of the amendments which we are proposing and the proper function of the board.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, contrary to what His Honour the Vice-President and learned hon. Minister of Justice is saying … 

Mr Daka: State Counsel.

Mr Lubinda: ... State Counsel, Vice-President and His Excellency, to satisfy Hon Daka, let me state that the amendments that are proposed are actually meant to align the law with the intentions of the Government. Let me illustrate by giving a few examples.

Sir, the amendment on page 5, in line 37 proposes the removal of the word “Board” and substitution therefor with the word “Authority”. The reason is very clear for everyone to understand. In line 38, the Bill reads as follows:

“The Board shall put the frequencies assigned to the various broadcasting services up for public tender …”

I will end there. The Bill is stating that the board shall put up frequencies. Obviously, all of us know that it is not the function of the board to do that management assignment. That is the function of the authority. The board directs and the authority implements. If you look at this Bill, at the proposed part IV, you will see that all the functions that are provided for the authority are now being taken to the board. What then is the function of the authority? Why have an authority when it has no relevance whatsoever? 

Sir, I would like to refer you to subclause (3) on page 6 of the Bill which states that the board may conduct a public inquiry. Obviously, our colleagues intend to say that the IBA may conduct a public inquiry. I think that is the spirit that all of colleagues on your right are making this proposal. I am, however, willing to engage the Vice-President on two specific issues. The proposal at (i) is different from the one which refers to the word “specifically”. Those two are different. The rest are just to make sure that we allocate responsibility to the right unit, unless the Vice-President is suggesting that we should also amend the title or name of the authority from the Independent Broadcasting Authority to Independent Broadcasting Board.

For as long as we do not make reference to the authority in the Act, there is no need, whatsoever, to refer to it as such.

I am sure that even to accept such a very straightforward amendment with the arrogance of numbers is not only good for us in this House, but also the public to know that there is a difference between the board that directs and the authority that implements.

For the others, I would like to refer particularly to the amendment I propose on page 9 in line 2 and I am sure from this side of the House, we do not mind calling for a division. However, for the others, it is up to them, if they wish to have a law that is so confusing. We, in the Opposition, on this particular one, take serious interest. 

Mr Speaker, Clause 24 (3) says:

“The programme provided by religious broadcasting service shall reflect the religious beliefs and needs of the people and shall:

(a)    provide a community broadcasting service dealing specifically with religious issues. 

We do not see why we should say that religious broadcasting services must only be involved in explicitly religious issues, and yet the learned hon. Minister of Justice also knows that later on, the provision of that Bill contradicts the former because it says: 

(b)    be informative, educational and entertaining; and

(c)    focus on the provision of programs that highlight grass root community issues, including developmental health care, basic information and general educational and environmental affairs and other spiritual matters.

If that is the case, I am sure that Hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha will realise that applying the word ‘specifically’ contradicts the rest of the provision of the law and our worry is not only a matter of the English language, but the mischief that this introduces. Some very clever lawyers who are quick at somersaulting will go to court and argue that the law specifically says something while others are only providing                                                                                                                  those that shall be allowed by the authority and we want to avoid that. We would like the law to be clear that religious broadcasting will allow the broadcasting of religious issues and others that are provided for in this law.

Therefore, we are proposing to amend the Bill by deleting the word ‘specifically’ because that is not correct.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, again, I will be very brief. It will be the first time in the history of broadcasting that a broadcasting station will be confined to a particular programming. The tenets of broadcasting is in three dimensions, namely, entertainment, information and education, be it religious, private, commercial broadcasting. Mark my words; it will be the first time in the history of broadcasting worldwide that a broadcasting station has been confined to a single programming.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I stand to specifically support the amendment that has been moved by Hon. Lubinda pertaining to Clause 9.

Mr Chairperson, I foresee a mischief being deliberately created by our colleagues in the Government. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I have no doubt in my mind that this particular clause has a target in mind. It is targeting certain radio stations in Zambia that are perceived to be anti-Government. The intention is to guard them and ensure that if they continue propagating other broadcast apart from religious broadcast, come 2011, they will be closed down.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: With that clause that has been moved and passed by this House pertaining to the Committee that will be moved and implemented by the hon. Minister, I have no doubt in my mind that the intention is very mischievous and is intended to guard other radio stations in Zambia. Come 2011, mark my words, a number of radio stations that are perceived to be anti-Government will be closed down because of this particular clause. I know you have the arrogance of numbers, but we, on this side, have the principle and are going to defend it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I wish to reply to the various submissions made. We on this side of the House work with the benefit of expert advice from drafts persons and experts in the broadcasting industry. We do not want to go into political propaganda, but address the amendments as they have been moved. I wish to state, authoritatively and categorically, that our position is to reject all these amendments moved by Hon. Lubinda from number 3 (a), (b), (c), (d), (e) and (f). All of them, without exception, will be rejected and given a ‘no’ vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I would like it to be put on record clearly that to come to this House and debate matters like this is the reason each one of us went and appealed to the people to allow us to come here and debate. We never, at anyone time, said that we were going to give away our legislative responsibility to the so-called experts who are out there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

We are hon. Members of Parliament and much as our colleagues in the Government have access to expert advice, we too, on this side (Opposition), are either experts in this House in our own fields and also have access to many experts out there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: What we are talking about here, according to my colleague, is a matter of principle. Therefore, let it be recorded as it was earlier, today, that the Hansards will be available in future and it shall be remembered that these noble men and women on your left, today, stood firm to defend this principle and those on your right prevailed because of the arrogance of numbers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: We are going to call for a division for the sake of putting it on record. As I end my debate, l would like to state that we are trying to cure a potential mischief. We are doing this cognisant of the fact that irrespective of what the Government may say, there shall come a time when the Zambian people shall say, “Pack your bags and go” and others will be sitting on that side. It might not necessarily be my colleagues and I, but there shall be new people sitting on that side. The laws that we pass in this House are not for our pocket agenda, but for the good of the country. We are going to call for a division because we would like it recorded that this is a matter of principle for us.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members called for a division.

Question that Clause 9

(a)    on page 5, 

in lines 28 to 34, be amended by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”;

(b)    on page 6

(i)    in line 1 by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”;

(ii)    in line 3 by the insertion of the word “or a renewal thereof” immediately after the words “broadcasting licence”; and

(iii)    in lines 4, 6, 8 and 11 by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”.

(c)    on page 7

(i)    in line 1 by the deletion of paragraph (c);

(ii)    in lines 9 to 12 by the deletion of paragraph (e) and (f);

(iii)    by the re-numbering of paragraphs (d) (g) (h) and (i) as paragraphs (c) (d) (e) and (f), respectively;

(iv)    in line 23 by the deletion of the word “Board” and the substitution therefor of the word “Authority”.

(d)    on page 9

(i)    in line 2 by the deletion of the word “specifically” immediately before the words “with religious”;

(ii)    after line 30 by the insertion of the following new subclause (2):

“2. The Authority shall, within thirty days of receipt of an application under subsection (1), grant or reject the application.”; and

(iii)    in lines 31 and 33 by the renumbering of subclauses (2) and (3) as subclauses (3) and (4), respectively.

(f)    on page 10, in lines 33 to 36 by the deletion of paragraphs (j) and (k) put and the House voted.

Ayes – (31)

Mrs E. M Banda
Mr Chanda
Mr Chazangwe
Mr Chisala
Mr Chota
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Hamusonde
Mr Imenda
Mr Kamondo
Mr Kapeya
Mr Kasoko
Dr Katema
Mr Katuka
Mr Lubinda
Mr Magande
Mr Malama
Mr Mukanga
Mr C. Mulenga
Mr Munaile
Mr Muntanga
Mrs Musokotwane
Mr Muyanda
Mr Mweemba
Mr Mwenya
Mr Mwiimbu
Mr D. Mwila
Mr Nkombo
Mrs Phiri
Dr Scott
Mr Simuusa
Mr Sing’ombe

Noes – (55)

Mr I. Banda
Mr W. Banda
Ms Changwe
Major Chibamba
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chimbaka
Mr Chinyanta
Mr Chisanga
Dr Chishya
Major Chizhyuka
Ms Cifire
Mr Daka
Mr Imasiku
Mr Kachimba
Mr Kakusa
Mr Kalenga
Dr Kalila
Mr Kasongo
Dr Kawimbe
Dr Kazonga
Mr Kunda
Ms Lundwe
Mr Lungu
Mr Machila
Mr Malwa
Mr Mangani
Mr Mbewe
Mr Misapa
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Munkombwe
Mr Mushili
Dr Musonda
Mr Muteteka
Mr Mwaanga
Mr V. Mwale
Mr M. B. Mwale
Mr Mwangala
Mr Mwanza
Mr B. Y. Mwila
Mr Namulambe
Mr Nkhata
Mr Pande
Mr Shawa
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sikazwe
Ms Siliya
Mr Simbao
Mrs Sinyangwe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr F. R. Tembo
Ms V. Tembo

Abstentions – (1)

Dr Machungwa

Question that Clause 9 be amended put and negatived.

Clause 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses, 10, 11 and 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

THE PROFESSIONAL BOXING AND WRESTLING CONTROL (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 6 – (Amendment of Section 6)

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Chairpersons, I would like to move an amendment in Clause 6, on page 4, in lines 4 to 12, by the deletion of Clause 6 and the substitution of the following new Clause 6:

“6. Section six of the principal Act is amended in Subsection (1) by the deletion of paragraph (a) and the substitution therefor of the following paragraph:

(a)    who has by oneself, directly or indirectly or through the member’s spouse, partner or business associate, any financial interest in boxing or wrestling at any tournament”.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale) (on behalf of The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu)): Mr Chairperson, I would like to state that we have rejected the proposed amendment for the reasons I intend to put across.

Firstly, we recognise that boxing and wrestling no longer enjoy the same national interest as they used to in the 1970s. Therefore, the members of the board need enough time in which to recommend their strategic plans. Secondly, they need to have international exposure that will enable them contribute to the development of these sports disciplines at the international level.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, this amendment is not controversial and should not be at all. We have the interest of seeing that professional boxing is reactivated in the country. As mentioned by the hon. Minister, we know for sure that professional boxing in Zambia is not the way it used to be, hence the reason we are saying that there is no basis for us extending the tenure of office for office bearers who have failed to drive professional boxing in the country. Why should we repay failure with an extension of time when they have failed to produce results within a period of three years?

Therefore, I am appealing to the Executive to be considerate on this issue so that we maintain the three years. We are not saying that this is the end, but let us try and see how we can rejuvenate the sport. Thereafter, consideration can be taken into account to see whether we can extend the period for office bearers. For now, with the new developments that we are seeing in professional boxing, I am appealing that we consider not extending their period. I still maintain that we amend the clause to leave it as it is in the principal Act.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Bill. Let me state, from the outset, that I will be very brief.

Mr Chairperson, in supporting the amendment moved by the promoter of professional boxing, Hon. Mwenya Musenge, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … a man who has enjoyed vast experience in boxing promotion to an extent that he qualifies to be referred to as an expert in the sport, I would like to say that it is not fair for the Acting hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Hon. M. B. Mwale) to say that this Government is objecting this very progressive amendment simply on the basis that, today, boxing and wrestling do not enjoy the national interest that they enjoyed in the 1970s. That is missing the point. 

Sir, the reason the law was brought to this House was to ensure that we improved the standing of the sport in the public eye. That is the reason they brought the law for amendment so that even female boxing is allowed by statute. Therefore, it is not right to say that we cannot amend the law to improve it because it does not enjoy as much support as it did in the 1970s. This is to be less than is expected of hon. Members. 

May I, therefore, appeal to the hon. Minister to, please, realise that we are passing laws for the sake of promoting growth and development of the sport. If this amendment does add to that, as Hon. Musenge said, what is the value of letting rogues keep running the business if they are not improving it? Is it not the very reason we want to slow so that those who are not making boxing an important sport pave way for others who have ingenuity and interest? Is that not the reason we have the law here? It is about making progress.

The Deputy Chairperson of Committees: Order! 

Did I hear you use the word ‘rogue’?

Hon. Government Members: Yes, he did.

Mr Lubinda: I am sorry, Sir. I withdraw the word ‘rogue’, but I would like to say that is it of any use to have logs sitting and pretending to be running the business of boxing when they are actually not making progress? The idea is to put people in place who can foster the further development of the sport so that it enjoys the same public interest that it did during the time that the hon. Minister referred to in the 1970s. It is no other than us, gathered in here, who shall foster that development. It is not the people outside alone; we ought to stimulate that growth. Therefore, I appeal to the hon. Minister that, please, the reason given for objecting this amendment is not valid. May you, please, concede that this amendment is progressive.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa: No!

Mr M. B. Mwale:  Mr Chairperson, there is no amount of tongue twisting that is going to change the position of the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale:  Mr Chairperson, we stated that the extension of the tenure of office for the board members will give them enough time to implement their strategic plans. It is very important that they are given enough time to implement their strategic plans. May I assure the hon. Member that the extension of tenure does not mean that those board members who want business as usual will continue because the hon. Minister will be there to take necessary action.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Chairperson, …

Hon. Members: Another boxer.

Dr Machungwa: … boxing requires to be run by people who know what they are doing. People who are going onto the boards for the first time need a lot of experience and establish contacts with international organisations. 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Dr Machungwa: When you look at people who run sport such as soccer, for instance, Mr Sepp Blatter and others, you will notice that they have been in that game for quite some time.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Dr Machungwa: People need to be given an opportunity to gain experience before they can begin dealing with the World Boxing Council (WBC) and World Boxing Association (WBA) and all these other boxing organisations in the world. They need to have contacts.

Mr Chairperson, I am saying this because I have been following boxing for a very long time. I know that some of the most successful people who were running the sport in this country had a lot of contacts. I think that limiting the tenure to three years for the board members will make it difficult for them to operate efficiently. Therefore, I reject the amendment.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, when the principle Act was made, it clearly indicated that the period that was incorporated was three years. Some of those people who have been debating on the Floor of this House have not even had an opportunity to go through the principle Act. They have not even had an opportunity to even see the regulations for the sport which have been put together by the ministry. I insist that we need to maintain the three years for a number of reasons. For the past ten to fifteen years that I was in professional boxing, there was no single time that the board was able to bring, before the stakeholders or the members of the sport, audited accounts. As I earlier on mentioned, this House does apportion a certain amount of money to professional boxing. Whatever has been apportioned is not known by any single boxer or stakeholder in professional boxing. 

Mr Chairperson, what we are saying is that we have a team of people who have been running the sport incompetently and I feel that if we give them a period of five years, it means that we will be keeping a team that has failed to deliver for that long. It is not only that, we have also noticed situations where people are being brought from outside professional boxing to run the sport. 

You do not need a person to come and start learning the game. We want administrators who have grown up within the sport. For example, in football, today, we have Hon. Munaile who was a prolific player and is now in administration. We have Kalusha Bwalya who was in football and, today, is running the sport. However, that is not happening in professional boxing. 

Mr Chairperson, the argument that someone needs five years to learn the rules does not arise because boxers, promoters, managers, trainers and ring managers do understand the aspect of the game. We know that the principle Act gave a period of three years and that used to work well in the 1970s. What is the problem today? Why do we want to give more time to people who have failed? Let us allow the three year tenure, which has existed for so many years, to remain the way it is until such a time that we are able to be satisfied with the performance of professional boxing in the country. We are pleading with you hon. Minister to, please, look at that issue properly.

I thank you, Sir.

Question that Clause 6 be amended put and negatived.

Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Mr Lubinda: Division!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

Title agreed to.

________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendment:

The Copyright and Performance Rights (Amendment) Bill, 2010

The Independent Broadcasting Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2010

Report Stages on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Professional Boxing and Wrestling Control (Amendment) Bill, 2010

Third Reading on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.

REPORT STAGE

The Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2007) Bill, 2010

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1811 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 5th August, 2010.{mospagebreak}

QUESTION FOR WRITTEN ANSWER

MILLENNIUM DEVELOPMENT GOALS’ PROGRESS

W62. Mr Imenda (Lukulu East) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice what progress the Government had made in attaining the 2015 millennium development goals (MDGs), goal by goal. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, as regards the progress made by the Government in attaining the MDGs 2015, I wish to inform the house that the Government has put in place a Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) through which a number of development and poverty reduction interventions are being undertaken. This includes the MDGs areas of health, education agriculture, water and sanitation, HIV/AIDS and gender and the environment.

Before I proceed to give the current status on individual MDGs, allow me, Madam Speaker, to highlight that the most up-to-date documented assessment of progress made on MDGs is reported in the 2008 FNDP Annual Progress Report.

 According to the FNDP progress report, three of the MDG targets will be met, while six have the potential to be met with a lot more effort put into these areas, while the one on environment remains unlikely to be met by 2015.

Half of the targets have been assessed as having a strong supportive environment with the other half having a good or fair environment for achieving the set targets. 

Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the document be laid on the table as it is too bulky and detailed to be read now.

Madam Speaker, I will further highlight that the assessment of the environment for the attainment of the MDGs by 2015 shows that, the supportive environment continues to improve. Half of the targets have been assessed as having a strong supportive environment with the other half having a good or fair environment for achieving the set targets.

Madam Speaker, the assessment of individual the MDGs is as follows:

MDG 1: Eradicate Extreme Poverty

Target 1

Halve between 1990 and 2015 the Proportion of People Living in Extreme Poverty

Madam, the poverty trends show a reduction in poverty levels in the country as a whole to 51 per cent in 2006 from 53 per cent in 2004 and 58 per cent in 1998.  Further, there has been progress in recent years as extreme poverty has fallen consistently from a high of 36 per cent in 1998 to its 2006 level of 20 per cent in urban areas. Poverty in rural areas stands at 67 per cent lower than the 1998 figure of 71 per cent.

There is an increasingly strong supportive environment to support improvements in poverty trends as the Government spends large resources on the Farmer input Support Programme (Farmer Fertiliser Support Programme) and the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) showing the Government’s commitment to addressing the imbalance between urban and rural areas. There are also initiatives in place for retaining front line service delivery providers into rural areas in health, education and agriculture. 

Madam, other initiatives in place include the maintenance and rehabilitation of rural roads and the construction of health and education facilities in rural areas. The implementation of these pro-rural, and by extension, pro-poor policies will be carried through in the coming years to ensure the set targets are met.

The assessment on this target, Madam Speaker, was that, with consistent investment in these areas, it is reasonable to assess that the target can potentially be met.

Target 2

 Halve Between 1990 and 2015, the Proportion of People who suffer from Hunger

Madam Speaker, the agricultural and nutrition polices focus on ensuring that food production increases thereby contributing to reduction of extreme hunger.  The Zambia Health Demographic Survey (ZDHS) 2007 found that the prevalence of underweight under-five children was 14.6 per cent.  Thus, the target of 11 per cent can be achieved by 2015.

MDG 2: Achieve Universal Primary Education

Target 3

 Ensure that by 2015, Children Everywhere, Boys and Girls Alike, will be able to Complete a Full Primary School Course

Madam, the three indicators under this target all show large improvement from the base year, 1990.  The net enrolment rate stood at 102.6 per cent. The enrolments in Grades 1 to 7 had increased by 67 per cent from 1.6 million pupils in 2000 to 2.8 million in 2007.  There has been a significant improvement in the proportion of pupils starting Grade 1, who reach grade 7, which stood at 94.7 per cent in 2008.  On literacy rates, however, the trend has been declining as the 2008 rate was 74.4 per cent against the 1990 baseline figure of 79 per cent.

The assessment on this target, Madam Speaker, is that Zambia is on track to meet the MDG on universal primary education by 2015.

MDG 3:  Promote Gender Equality 

Target 4

  Eliminate Gender Disparity in Primary and Secondary Education Preferably by 2005 and in all Levels of Education no later than 2015

Madam Speaker, the increased enrolment of both boys and girls in primary schools, in recent years, has led to an improvement in the ratio of boys to girls. This will further improve enrolment at higher levels when the current expansion of secondary school infrastructure is completed. Further, the affirmative action of establishing bursary schemes for excelling girls who cannot afford to pay for requisites at tertiary level, serves to promote education for girls.  Additionally, 25 per cent of the bursary scheme at the University of Zambia has been set aside for the education of girls.  

Other major issues in the supportive environment include, the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Act, appointment of gender focal persons in other sectors, increased campaigns to encourage women to participate in the Parliamentary and Local Government elections, sensitisation of the traditional leadership so that they can influence change in cultural and traditional practices and gender mainstreaming in the Public Service.

The general assessment on this target, Madam Speaker, is that it is likely to be met by 2015, as reported in the last MDGs report.

Target 5 

Reduce by Two-thirds, between 1990 and 2015, the Under-five Mortality Rate

Madam Speaker, progress on three specific indicators, the under-five mortality rate, infant mortality rate and the proportion of one-year olds immunised against measles are recorded to assess this progress. In general, the sector performance against the four MDGs has been favourable, with both infant and child mortality rates registering significant decreases between 2001 and 2007 from 95 to 70 per 1,000 births and from 168 to 119 per 1,000 births, respectively.  The Ministry of Health estimates that the national immunisation coverage in 2008 was 90 per cent, up from the previous year’s 85 per cent.

The assessment on this target, Madam Speaker, is that it can potentially be met in Zambia by 2015.

MDG 5: Improve Maternal Health

Target 6
 
Reduce by Three-quarters, between 1990 and 2015, the Maternal Mortality Ratio

Madam Speaker, this ratio is tracked through two indicators; the actual maternal mortality ratio that comes from surveys and census and the proportion of births attended to by skilled personnel. According to the results of the 2007 ZDHS, maternal mortality reduced from 729 to 591 per 100,000 live births, while the proportion of births attended by skilled personnel increased from 43 per cent in 2006 to 45.3 per cent in 2008, and is expected to continue rising.

Among the interventions which have contributed to this are the integration and scaling up of Prevention of Mother to Child Transmission programmes into maternal and child health care services, the exemption of pregnant women from paying user fees and the extension of the piloted safe motherhood action groups strategy from North-Western Province to others such as Luapula. Related interventions such as the improvement in the availability of insecticide treated nets have also helped prevent malaria in pregnancy under the roll-back malaria partnership.

The assessment on this target, Madam Speaker, is that it is considered to have the potential to be met by 2015, as the supportive environment continues to progress from weak to fair.

 MDG 6: Combat HIV/AIDS, Malaria and other Major Diseases

Madam Speaker, there are the following two specific targets under this Goal:

(i)    Target 7

have halted and begun to reverse the spread of HIV/AIDS by 2015; and

(ii)    Target 8

have halted, by 2015, and begun to reverse, the incidence of malaria and other major diseases.

The figures from the 2007 ZDHS show that the HIV prevalence rate has declined from 16 per cent in 2007. These improvements are due to the increased provision of anti-retroviral therapy (ART) and improvements in the delivery of services. 

Madam, the number of adults and children with advanced HIV infection receiving ARTs increased from 80,030 clients in 2006 to 156,229 in 2007 and subsequently to 219,576 in 2008.  Also the number of voluntary counselling and testing sites increased from 1,102 in 2007 to 1,563 in 2008. Of these, 1,471 were public and 92 private. This showed an increased coverage amongst the eligible population to 66.8 per cent (up from 32.9 per cent in 2006). The number of trained professional and lay ART service providers has also continued to increase. At the end of 2008, 45,000 pregnant women were recorded as having received anti-retroviral treatment in the year.

The 2007 ZDHS revealed that 56.2 per cent of the population in malaria risk areas was using effective prevention and treatment methods, while 28.5 per cent of children under five slept under insecticide treated nets.

The assessment on these targets, Madam Speaker, is that they will be met.

MDG 7: Ensure Environmental Sustainability

Madam Speaker, there are two specific targets included under this Goal:

(i)    Target 9 

integrate the principles of sustainable development into country policies and programmes and reverse the loss of environmental resources; and

(ii)    Target 10

halve, by 2015, The proportion of the population without sustainable access to safe drinking water and basic sanitation.

Madam, for Target 9, the number of activities being undertaken in the sector has improved considerably in the past few years. The introduction of the Integrated Land Use Assessment in 2006 and 2007 provides relevant baseline data for the sector and the supporting environment is improving.

Some of the major challenges affecting this goal are related to the extensive use of forest resources and other natural resources as sources of livelihood in rural areas. This, coupled with deficiencies in organisational and institutional capacities particularly at local levels, continues to weaken the implementation of the environment policies and enforcement of legislative frameworks for environmental protection.

Madam, in relation to Target 10, there is no updated data available since the provision of the preliminary results of the 2006 Living Conditions Monitoring Survey which showed that, at national level, access to safe water improved from 47 per cent of households in 1996 to 59 per cent in 2006. 

 In urban areas 89 per cent of households, which was over twice the rural figure of 42 per cent, had access to safe water.  At the same time, the proportion of households with access to sanitation facilities, defined as households with own flush toilet inside or outside their house or which share a flush toilet, and those with own pit latrine. The figures from the various Living Conditions Monitoring Survey show an improvement of the situation between 2004 and 2006, as well as a more long term improvement since 1996.  In total, 85.8 per cent of the population had appropriate sanitary means of excreta disposal; almost all in urban areas, and about 79 per cent in rural areas.

The assessment on these targets, Madam Speaker, is that, while the two targets (9 & 10) can be achieved, they will probably not be met until 2015.

MDG 8: Develop Global Partnership for Development

Madam Speaker, there has been growth in the economy as well as an improvement in social indicators. Currently, there exists a joint assistance strategy, Aid Policy, and the Zambia Donor Assistance Data-base to monitor the effectiveness of aid for development.  To foster regional economic development, the country is a member of some economic regional groupings, namely the Southern African Development Community, the Community for East and Southern African States and the Great Lakes Region.

Unlike other goals which have definite targets, this goal has no target.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to state that details of this response can be obtained from the 2008 FNDP Annual Progress Report which I now lay on the table.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_________