DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 26th October, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

___________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

FREE TREATED MOSQUITO NETS

122. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Health when the ministry would begin to distribute free treated mosquito nets to under-five children and expectant mothers countrywide.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Kalila) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr Simbao)): Mr Speaker, the Government has recognised that pregnant women and children, under five years old, are among the most vulnerable groups to malaria and, as such, mosquito nets referred to as insecticide-treated nets distribution to these groups became free and all districts in the country are beneficiaries.

Mr Speaker, to date, 2,169,024 insecticide-treated nets have been distributed to these target groups since the inception of the programme in 2003 and it is on going. The distribution is through antenatal clinics and Expanded Programme for Immunisation (EPI) whenever the insecticide-treated nets are available. All public health facilities in the country are beneficiaries of the programme and the Ministry of Health will continue serving these vulnerable groups as long as resources are available. The programme is being implemented by the Society for Family Health on behalf of the Ministry of health.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the solution to malaria …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Do not debate. Ask your question.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, when are we going to go back to a situation, like it was sometime back, where all towns were mosquito free so that we will not need mosquito nets?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, this Government has been hailed as being exemplary in the malaria control programmes. The recent review undertaken by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the various international stake holders recognised Zambia as leading in the control of malaria. We have managed to reduce the cases by 60 per cent and so we are moving very fast towards that situation which the hon. Member is mentioning and thanks to the prudent health policies of this Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, millennium development goal (MDG) No. 6 talks about malaria and we still have a lot of children, who are under five, dying from malaria. I would like to know whether we are going to achieve the MDG No. 6 going by the answer the hon. Minister has given.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, whereas, before, our cases of people dying of malaria were around the region of 50,000, we are now down to 5,000. This is how good our programmes are and, in fact, one of the MDGs is on the maternal and child health which targets the under-five age groups. So, the Government is very much on course considering that the country is at 60 per cent better than it was. We still have five years to go before the deadline set for the achievement of the MDGs and we are confident that we shall reach those goals.

I thank you, Sir.

MUCHINJI RAIL LINE ECONOMIC VALUE

123. Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport what the economic value, in monetary savings and cash generation, of the Mchinji Rail Line was.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, it is very difficult to ascertain the monetary savings and cash generation from the development of the Chipata/Mchinji Rail Line as these are subject to detailed feasibility studies and the commencement of commercial operations into Zambia.

However, with the increasing economic activity in the country, especially in the mining sector, a well-established rail system for bulk and heavy goods transportation is required. An obvious advantage is that a well-functioning railway network reduces pressure on the roads resulting into major savings in terms of road repair costs.

Therefore, the Chipata/Mchinji Rail Line will provide the country with the shortest and cheapest route to the sea-port for exports and imports and will, at the same time, facilitate the decongestion of the two traditional Ports of Durban and Dar-es-Salaam. It will provide Zambia with a high volume and low cost mass transport to a regional sea port for its international trade. This will address the cost of accessibility to a sea port and, at the same time, facilitate the ease of doing business in Zambia, which is generally associated with high transport costs.

Zambia’s major exports are mineral based which are exported overseas using other countries owing to its landlocked position. These minerals are transported using trucks which lead to the rapid deterioration of the road infrastructure. This means that there has to be constant rehabilitation and maintenance of the roads which is costly for the country. Thus, the Chipata/Mchinji Rail Line will reduce pressure on the roads resulting into major savings in terms of road repair costs.

Mr Speaker, as regards cash generation, the Zambia Railways Limited will be collecting access fees from the operator and this will be partly used for maintenance of the railway line.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, it is a year since the railway line was commissioned. I would like to find out when we are going to see the first train transporting copper from Solwezi through this railway line.

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, I understand the anxiety on the part of the hon. Member for Solwezi Central who would like to see our copper from Solwezi being transported cheaply on the Chipata/Mchinji Railway Line. Of course, that will take a while.

Mr Speaker, the decisions of the routes are made by the management of various companies and we still have to wait and see how the management of the mining companies will treat the railway line in terms of the opportunity costs that it may provide.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, arising from the answers given by the hon. Minister, would it not help if he could present a ministerial statement to this House as regards the discussions between government to government over trains beginning to run between Mchinji and Chipata. That is the Government’s responsibility.

Professor Lungwangwa: Indeed, we, as a Government, are working on a ministerial statement on the railway line and that will be made available with the permission of Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm to this House that the Government was under obligation to complete the project because Malawi had done its part a long time ago?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, indeed, within the last two years of His Excellency the President’s leadership, there has been a lot of effort …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Professor Lungwangwa: … to complete the railway line and His Excellency, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, has worked tirelessly to ensure that the Chipata/Mchinji Railway line is completed. This has been done within a record time of two years of his leadership. I can confirm that we have worked very hard, as a Government, to see the completion of this very important railway line.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what assurance he can give to this House over the Chipata/Mchinji Railway being able to work. This is going by the fact that the Tanzania Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) and the Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ) have failed.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the use of a word such as ‘failing’, I think, is too extreme because, at the moment, TAZARA is operational and like I said the, other week, Zambia has signed the 14th Protocol which will see the effective operation of TAZARA. This will be done by rehabilitating the railway line and 1,200 wagons, procurement of locomotive engines, training of staff and management issues are being looked into. So, all these are efforts aimed at revamping effective operations of TAZARA. So, I do not think that we can use a word like failing. 

Mr Speaker, I think efforts are being made and the same goes for the RSZ. We are engaging the RSZ to ensure that it addresses the weaknesses we, as a Government, have observed. These are matters which we are giving very serious attention. Therefore, I would not say that there is failure in that regard. Equally, neither would I say the same thing about the Chipata/Mchinji Railway. Instead, we should be looking forward, with optimism, to effective and efficient operations of the Chipata/Mchinji Railway line.

I thank you, Sir.

SOLWEZI AIRSTRIP

124. Mr Lumba asked the Minister of Communications and Transport: 

(a)    what the major rehabilitation works done on Solwezi Airstrip were;

(b)    who the main contractor was; and 

(c)    what the total cost of the works was.

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, the major works done at the Solwezi Airstrip were:

(i)    rehabilitation of a waiting room;

(ii)    rehabilitation of fire office;

(iii)    drilling of a borehole;

(iv)    repair of car park lights;

(v)    construction of a curio shop;

(vi)    construction of a restaurant; and 

(vii)    landscaping and fencing off part of the airstrip.

Mr Speaker, the main contractor is Kutekelalesa.

Mr Speaker, the total cost of the works is K216,830,024. It should be noted that the works are still on-going.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the major works on the runway will be done.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the main works on the runway will commence as soon as the current discussions with the mining companies such as First Quantum Minerals are concluded as they are still going on. The mining companies are willing to put their equipment to use on the runway. So, I would say that, at this stage, the works on the runway will be commencing after the conclusion of our current discussions because the Solwezi Airstrip is on a private-public partnership (PPP) construction basis.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when the Government is going to replace the old fire tender, especially that now we have modern aircraft and also looking at the accident which the hon. Ministers experienced.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I do not know exactly where the old fire tender being referred to is found. Is it at the Solwezi Airstrip?

Mrs Phiri: Solwezi.

Professor Lungwangwa: Nevertheless, Mr Speaker, the replacement of the equipment in order to make airstrips and airports operate effectively is on-going and, clearly, once resources are in place, the Government shall look into the necessary replacement of the equipment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that the hon. Minister made reference to two different aspects − firstly, to the issue of negotiations with First Quantum Minerals to use their equipment and secondly, to the fact that this was going to be a PPP − could he indicate whether the PPP is to involve the First Quantum Minerals and if so, why should he go into negotiations concerning equipment to be used by the private partner?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata should be aware that construction works on an airstrip or runway are a very technical process and there are so many technical details that have to be looked into. Therefore, the Government has to be satisfied that the construction works which will be undertaken by the company are to acceptable specifications. That is why technical discussions and negotiations are extremely important from the design stage all the way up to the implementation stage. So, that is what I would like the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata to understand.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mooya (Momba): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when the Solwezi Airstrip will be upgraded to an airport or aerodrome? Why is it an airstrip?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the construction works that will be undertaken are part of the upgrading process. This is because the runway will be slightly longer than what it is now to accommodate slightly larger aircraft.

I thank you, Sir.

ROAD TRANSPORT AND SAFETY AGENCY INSPECTORS

125. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) (on behalf of Mr Kambwili (Roan)) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a)    what the total establishment of the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) inspectors currently was;

(b)    whether all the positions of inspectors were filled and, if not, why; and 

(c)    how many road traffic accidents had been recorded on the following roads from January to July, 2010:

(i)        Kitwe-Chingola;
(ii)        Chingola-Solwezi;
(iii)        Ndola-Kabwe; and 
(iv)        Kabwe-Lusaka.

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, the current total establishment of the RTSA inspectors stands at zero. This is because inspectors were not included in the initial staff establishment that was approved by the committee of hon. Ministers under the Road Sector Investment Programme (ROADSIP II) of the Road Rehabilitation and Maintenance Initiative.

The establishment does not provide for the position of the RTSA inspectors and, as such no such position would be filled. The table below shows the road traffic accidents recorded on the following roads:

Road    No. of    No. of    No. of    No. of    Total
    accidents    fatalities    serious    slight    
    recorded    recorded    injuries    Injuries

Kitwe/Chingola    49    15    20    26    110

Chingola/Solwezi    25    04    16    13    58

Ndola/Kabwe    132    21    27    31    211

Kabwe/Lusaka    110    13    100    0    223

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the roadblocks mounted by RTSA and the Zambia Police are necessary because, most of the time, the money collected does not go to RTSA.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, roadblocks are extremely necessary because they are part of the safety measures that RTSA undertakes on our roads.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sikota, SC. (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, in view of the hon. Minister’s answer that the Ndola/Kabwe Road had the highest number of accidents and fatalities, is the Government, therefore, thinking of turning this road into a dual carriageway?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, according to our records, the highest number of accidents was on the Kabwe/Lusaka Road with 223 incidents.

Mr Lubinda: No!

Professor Lungwangwa: Infrastructure development of roads such as dual carriageways is the responsibility of the Ministry of Works and Supply and, I think, that is part of the future infrastructure development plans of our country. We intend to turn some major highways into dual carriageways.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, what short-term measures is the Government considering putting in place to try and reduce road traffic accidents on these roads?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, there are some short-term measures already in place. There are educational programmes that have been created in various media to educate drivers on road safety measures. For example, we have been educating drivers on the need to respect traffic signs. We are also paying a lot of attention to various testing of the proficiency of drivers as well as carrying out highway patrols. A few weeks ago, I said, in this House, that, last year, we bought highway patrol vehicles which are being distributed to all our provincial headquarters and all these measures are already in force. We have also procured motorbikes for traffic monitoring on our roads. All these, including the roadblocks that we mentioned earlier, are part and parcel of the safety measures on our roads. We are also revising the Highway Code to update, modernise and bring it in line with what is prevailing, for example, in the Southern African region. These are the measures that we are taking to ensure that there is safety on our roads and we save lives.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister indicate what plans he has put in place to ensure that the vacant positions of inspectors and RTSA Managing Director, whose contract expired, are filled to make the institution efficient.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I indicated, in my response, that there is no position of inspectors on the establishment of RTSA. However, as an interim measure, we are already in the process of recruiting honourary inspectors countrywide. We expect to have 312 honourary inspectors on the Copperbelt, Lusaka, Chipata, Kasama, Livingstone and other places. These will, of course, be doing the traffic inspection on our roads to ensure safety. As regards the chief executive officer, that matter is currently being handed by the RTSA Board.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the position of inspectors was left out from the RTSA establishment. Does the Government not think RTSA would have been more efficient if it had inspectors?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we are in the process of institution building and, clearly, positions can be reviewed so that their necessity is incorporated in the operations of the institution as we see it fit.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, as a follow up to the question raised by the hon. Member for Livingstone and also to assist the hon. Minister understand his own answer, may I ask him to reconcile the figures that were read by his deputy with regard to, for instance, Kabwe where he said the total number of accidents were 110, thirteen fatalities, 100 serious injuries and zero minor injuries and a total of 223 incidents. Could he kindly reconcile the total 223 incidents with the rest of the figures that his deputy read out so that he may answer the question raised by the hon. Member for Livingstone adequately.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I understand the response that has been given. I also understand the data we have provided and I have responded to the hon. Member for Livingstone, in my view, adequately.

Mr Lubinda interjected.

Professor Lungwangwa: If the hon. Member for Kabwata does not seem to understand the simple statistics which have been indicated here, I think he should take time to study them. They are so simple and basic. There is no difficulty in understanding basic data like this.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

__________________{mospagebreak}

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
 Chair]

THE VETERINARY AND PARA-VETERINARY PROFESSIONS BILL, 2010

CLAUSE 1 – (Short title and commencement)

The Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Machila): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 1, on page 7, in line 4, by the deletion, immediately after the words “Veterinary and” of the words “Para-Veterinary” and the substitution therefor of the words “Veterinary Para-“.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 1, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on:

    (a)    page 8

(i)    after line 10, by the insertion of the following definition:

“Chairperson” means the person elected Chairperson of the
Association pursuant to section six; ; and

(ii)    in lines 36 and 37, by the deletion of the definition of “President”; and

(b)    page 9

(i)    in line 28

by the insertion, immediately after the word “means” of the word “dispensing” and a comma;

(ii)    in line 32

, by the deletion, immediately after the word “section”, of the word “twelve” and the substitution therefor of the word “fourteen”; and

(iii)    after line 33, by the insertion of the following definition:

“Vice-Chairperson” means the person elected Vice-Chairperson of the Association pursuant to section six; and

(iv)    in lines 34 and 35

 by the deletion of the definition of “Vice-President”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 4 – (Functions of Association)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 4, on page 11, in lines 17 to 18 by the deletion, immediately after the words “protect and assist”, of the words “veterinary and para-veterinary professionals” and the substitution therefor of the words “veterinary surgeons and veterinary para-professionals”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 4, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 5 – (Constitution of Association)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 5, on page, in lines 5 and 6 by the deletion, immediately after the words “tenure of the”, of the words “President and Vice-President” and the substitution therefor of the words “office bearers”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 6 – (President and Vice-President of Association)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 6, on page 12:

(i)    in the marginal note 

by the deletion of the words “President” and “Vice-President” and the substitution therefor of the words “Chairperson” and Vice-Chairperson”, respectively; and

(ii)    in line 12 

by the deletion of the words “President” and Vice-President” and the substitution therefor of the words “Chairperson” and “Vice-Chairperson”, respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 6, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 8 – (Continuation and renaming of Veterinary Board of Zambia)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 8, on page 12:

    (i)    in lines 28 and 29 by the deletion of sub-clause (2); and

    (ii)    in line 30 by the re-numbering of sub-clause (3) as sub-clause (2).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 8, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 9 – (Composition of Council)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 9,

    (a)    on page 12,

        (i)    in line 33 by the deletion, immediately after the word “the” of the                 word “President” and the substitution therefor of the word                     “Chairperson”; and  

        (ii)    in line 34 by the deletion, immediately after the word “the” of the                 word “Vice-President” and the substitution therefor of the word                 “Vice-Chairperson”, and

    (b)    on page 13,

        In line 7 by the deletion of paragraph (g), and the substitution therefor of             the following:

        (g)    two veterinary professionals; and 

        (h)    one veterinary para-professional.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 9, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 10 – (Functions of Council)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment to Clause 10, 

    (a)    on page 13, in line 22 by the deletion of paragraph (a); and

    (b)    on page 13 to 14 by the re-numbering of paragraphs (b) to (k) as     
        paragraphs (a) to (j), respectively.
        
Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 10, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 16 – (Temporary Registration)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 16, on page 17, in line 19 by the insertion, immediately after the words “this Act” of the words “to provide specialist services”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 16, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 17, 18 and 19 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 20 – (Cancellation of Registration)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 20, on page 18, in line 28 by the deletion of the words “under any law” after the word “offence” and the substitution therefor of the words “and sentenced to imprisonment for a period exceeding six months without the option of a fine”. 

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 20, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 21, 22, 23 and 24 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 25 – (Cancellation of Practicing Certificate)

Mr Machila: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 25, on page 19, in lines 37 to 38 by the deletion, immediately after the words “provisions of”, of the words “the Animal Health Act, 2010” and the substitution therefor of the words “this Act”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 25, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 and 60 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 61 – (Professional Misconduct)

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 61, 

(a)    on page 30 

(i)    in line 22, by the deletion of paragraph (d); and

(ii)    in lines 23 and 25,  by the re-numbering of paragraph (e) and (f) as paragraphs (d) and (e), respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 61, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 and 76 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First and Second Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

GENERAL AMENDMENT

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move a General Amendment as follows:  

(a)    by the deletion of the words “Para-Veterinary”, wherever they appear and the substitution therefor of the words “Veterinary Para-“ ; and 

(b)    by the deletion of the words “Veterinary Board of Zambia” wherever they appear and the substitution therefor of the words “Board of Veterinary Surgery”.

Amendment agreed to. Bill amended accordingly.

General Amendment, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

LONG TITLE

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move an amendment in the Long Title, by the deletion, immediately after the words “existence of the”, of the words “Veterinary Board of Zambia” and the substitution therefor of the words “Board of Veterinary Surgery”.

Amendment agreed to. Long Title amended accordingly.

Long Title, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professional Bill, 2010

Report Stage on Tuesday, 2nd November, 2010.

REPORT STAGE

The Agricultural Credits Bill, 2010

Report adopted.

Third Reading on 27th October, 2010.

________

MOTION

BUDGET 2011

(Debate resumed)

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mbewe): Mr Speaker, before I proceed, I would like to congratulate the United Party for National Development (UNPD) for getting the Chilanga Constituency seat.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I also wish to congratulate my own party, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) for heavily hammering in Mpulungu Constituency…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: We are now going to permanently burry the Patriotic Front (PF).

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, before we adjourned last Friday, I was saying that it is the policy of the MMD Government to make sure that every home has sufficient food. The MMD Government has brought good policies which are going to make sure that every household in Zambia is secured with food. It is, therefore, the intention of my ministry and the Government to make sure that we move away from food deficiency in this country. We want to have food throughout the year.

Mr Speaker, there are some policies which have been put in place to make sure that the food is available to our people. As a ministry, we have strengthened our research department and our members of staff are well-educated. They have done a lot of research on different crops such as beans, maize, groundnuts and soya beans. In places where we have more rainfall and less rainfall, we have made sure that we send a variety which will suit those localities. 

Mr Speaker, we have also come up with an idea of training. We have revised the curriculum in our colleges to suit the modern environment. Our extension officers are well-trained and because they teach our farmers new methods of farming, that is why we have a bumper harvest. 

Mr Speaker, we have a programme called Conservation Agriculture. This is where our officers have taught the farmers to make sure that they increase on production per hectare. We want to move away from 2 metric tonnes per hectare to about 7 metric tonnes per hectare or more. This has already been achieved in Mumbwa District where some farmers have managed to harvest more than 10 metric tonnes per hectare. We are serious in this field. 

Sir, we also have a programme called the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). This programme is delivering the needs of the farmers at local level. The Government is making sure that it does not look at fertiliser alone, but also at other inputs such as irrigation equipment, loans and livestock. We are not only going to look at maize production, but also other crops. 

At the moment, I stand here a very proud hon. Minister because, in the region, we are the only country that is self-sufficient in wheat production. We have enough wheat and we are not going to import. 

Sir, we also have a programme where we want to intensify the growing of cotton. This is to add value to the production of cotton so that our people can also be employed in these industries. 

Mr Speaker, we also have an irrigation programme. We want our small-scale farmers to access irrigation so that they can grow crops throughout the year without waiting for the rains to come. 

Mr Speaker, when Parliament opened, there was a lot of bombardment over the payment of farmers. I am, therefore, glad to inform the House that K756 billion has already been given to our small-scale farmers through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). We just have a balance of K243 billion which, I feel, will be paid off in the next few weeks. I want to urge the hon. Members of Parliament whose farmers will not be paid to come to our office and inform us. As far as we are concerned, these payments are on course.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is also looking at how it can change the modalities of marketing. I am sure a Bill that will make sure that we market our crops properly has been brought before this House. We have a lot of measures in place which will assist our small-scale farmers to sell their crops without any problems. 

Mr Speaker, we have sent tarpaulins to all our districts through the FRA. We know very well that some of our hon. Members of Parliament want to politicise even the matter of food. There are no politics over food. Each hon. Member of Parliament should show leadership wherever they come from. They should make sure that all the maize in that locality is covered because, at the ministry, we have done our part. 

Mr Speaker, it now remains the responsibility of each hon. Member of Parliament to ensure that the maize in his or her constituency is properly stored or transported to a safer place.

Mr Speaker, the issue of sheds is becoming a challenge to us. I would like to appeal to hon. Members to allocate some money for the construction of sheds from their Constituency Development Fund (CDF). These sheds must be constructed using the CDF …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mbewe: …because we want our farmers to store their inputs and outputs within reach. This is the challenge that we have. 

Mr Speaker, lastly, I would like to thank the hon. Members for assisting the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives by bringing information which we have worked on and we can now proudly say that we are successful in maize marketing. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Yet again, I must guide the hon. Members of the Front Bench, the Cabinet and the hon. Deputy Ministers to debate from prepared texts because what you say here is considered as declared Government policy. Even your slips of the tongue will be considered declared Government policy.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Therefore, be very careful with what you say. Do not take chances. 

We have a committee here known as the Committee on Government Assurances. The members of that committee are busy taking notes, even those that you bring out as a result of the slip of the tongue. 

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Be advised, speak, even if you are an orator, from prepared texts. 

The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives may debate.

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of this House. 

I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the wonderful Budget Speech that was presented on 8th October, 2010. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the agriculture budget must be understood in a broader context. So many hon. Members have debated on issues to do with agriculture such as marketing and inputs. The budget must be understood in a broader context because agriculture includes expenses that are also incurred in other ministries. For instance, under the Ministry of Defence, we have the Zambia National Service farm production activities, which are part of the agricultural sector in this country. In the Ministry of Home Affairs, we have the prison farms. Under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, we have the Food Security Pack Programme. In the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, we have the construction of dams for irrigation. All these, therefore, are a totality of what we want to capture under the agriculture budget. 

Mr Speaker, so much has been said by hon. Members about the bumper harvest and the FISP. I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to correct some of the misconceptions, particularly those about the bumper harvest and the FISP.

Mr Speaker, in terms of productivity in metric tonnes per hectare, we are seeing improvements in maize yields. For instance, in the 2005/2006 Farming Season, we had 1.5 metric tonnes per hectare as the average crop yield. In the 2007/2008 Farming Season, it reduced to 1.3 metric tonnes. In 2008/2009, it increased to 1.6 metric tonnes. In the 2009/2010 Farming Season, it increased to 2.1 metric tonnes per hectare. Indeed, in terms of productivity, we have an improvement in maize yields. This applies to other crops like sorghum, rice, millet and Soya beans as well.

Mr Speaker, to achieve broad-based agricultural growth, competitiveness and diversification, the drivers of growth in agriculture have been identified by this Government as being research and technology, soil fertility management and the enhancement of the following:

(i)    fertiliser use and management;

(ii)    conservation farming;

(iii)    irrigation to reduce uncertainties;

(iv)    strategic infrastructure to reduce production costs by road building and maintenance; and 

(v)    storage facilities.

Mr Speaker, in order to address the issue of road infrastructure, my ministry is working towards improving feeder roads through the Agricultural Development Support Programme which is under its infrastructure component in collaboration with the Road Development Agency (RDA). This is in addition to other efforts in terms of road rehabilitation through local authorities and the Rural Roads Unit Programme. 

Mr Speaker, it should be noted that, according to available statistics, about 80 per cent of maize production is contributed by small-scale farmers. This is true as has been observed over the past five years, hence, the Government’s effort to target the small-scale farmers with regard to the FISP. Therefore, any factors negatively affecting the programme for this category of farmers will also have a direct and immediate impact on the national food security of our country. 

In addition to the above direct programme contribution to the national food security, the programme has also had an indirect contribution through the introduction of improved technologies such as hybrid seeds, fertilisers and good agronomic practices which have not only benefited those that are directly getting benefits from the programme, but also have transcended across all farmers in the country. 

Mr Speaker, in terms of the delivery of inputs, despite the challenges associated with delays in programme input distribution in some years, the programme has made improvements starting from the 2008/2009 Framing Season. Most of the delays have been associated to seed. It is important for hon. Members to know that for any seed to be distributed for a particular season it must be produced in that particular year and certified to that effect. Most of the seeds for the 2010/2011 Farming Season were only ready by end of August, 2010. However, because of the past experiences and good plans of this Government, most of the seed is now in respective districts ready for distribution to deserving farmers. 

Mr Speaker, let me also look at the improved input access by small-scale farmers. There has been great increase in agricultural input access by the small-scale farmers as can be seen from the figures available at the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives. The programme started with 48,000 metric tonnes during the 2002/03 Season rising to 84,000 metric tonnes in the 2006/07 Season to 108,000 metric tonnes for the 2009/10 Season and, now, to 178,000 metric tonnes for the 2010/11.

Mr Speaker, the Government is enhancing competitiveness in the supply and distribution of inputs. Capacity is, indeed, very important in achieving this. Therefore, it has been brought to various levels starting from the importers and suppliers of both fertilisers and seeds, transportation services and warehouse managers who are contracted to put into safe storage all inputs before and during the input distribution exercise. However, there is still room for additional capacity, especially for the local agro dealers who are key to the sustainability of the input distribution programme.

Mr Speaker, we have been hearing of cantermania issues somewhere in the Southern Province. Cantermania means the tendency of our small-scale farmers to buy Mitsubish Canter trucks once they have sold their crop. This means that, as a Government, we have seen to it that there are a lot of activities that have ensured that these small-scale farmers have money in their pockets.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the issue of risk sharing mechanisms between farmers and the Government is also an important one. As a result of the programme, it has been possible for the country to survive the impact of rising inputs and food prices during the 2008/09 Farming Season. This was because the Government was able to share the risks associated with the above phenomenon with small-scale farmers producing food which was available to the population at reasonable consumer prices.

Mr Speaker, in terms of rebuilding the eroded asset base and increased farmer incomes, it is a well-known fact to all that, by now, the FRA has purchased a number of crops such as maize and rice from farmers at a price of K65,000 per 50 kg. This translates into K975 billion to buy the 750,000 metric tonnes. This is the income which has gone into the pockets of the farmers for the 2010/11 Market Season. In addition, there have been substantial incomes which have been earned and, as such, have empowered various players in the chain such as transporters and buying agents which were contracted by the FRA. These incomes will contribute greatly to investment activities at farm level and, thereby rebuilding the once eroded asset base. Therefore, local economies in the production areas have benefited from this Government policy.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, it is very clear that the FISP has brought major benefits at both micro and macro levels. At the national level, since the inception of the programme, imports of maize have only been done once. Zambia has since become a major maize surplus country in the region. The country has, therefore, saved the foreign exchange which would have otherwise been used to import food in the absence of such policies. At the household level, the population is now food secure. In addition, as a result of increased farmer incomes, there is an increase in other economic activities related to agriculture.

Mr Speaker, therefore, there is a direct relationship between the Government’s efforts, through the FISP, and the increased maize production leading to the bumper harvest of the 2009/2010 Farming Season. Therefore, I wish to correct the wrong impression that has been created by some hon. Members and, in particular, I heard some assertion from the hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali that the bumper harvest was as a result of good weather.

Mr Speaker, that is a very defective analysis of the situation. The production model of a bumper harvest in the country can be attributed to three important variables. Firstly, there are Government policies. Secondly, is the hard work that our farmers are putting in and the third one is our good weather, which we have no control over and God was kind enough to give us. We hope we can also have good weather in the next farming season. Therefore, it is over simplifying issues to reduce the achieving of the bumper harvest to good weather. That is very defective analysis.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, in general, beneficiaries have expressed their happiness with the programme implementation which is under the FISP. Indeed, it is important that our farmers ensure that they prepare their fields now since the inputs are ready for distribution.

 I wish to assure the Zambian people that they have a very bright future under the MMD Government, …

Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: …which is led by His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda. This Government has tested and improved agriculture policies. We, as a Government are keen to ensure that we achieve sustainable national food security in Zambia. I challenge my colleagues to make a contribution towards the next bumper harvest by diversifying into other crops. Let us contribute to the national food security in whatever we can do best. It can be by growing some crops that may be of interest to us such as soya beans, rice, maize and sorghum among others.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House which was ably moved by the Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr. Situmbeko Musokotwane.

Mr Speaker, firstly, allow me to add my voice to the many that have spoken before me and have congratulated the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on a well-delivered, focused and inspirational Budget Speech. This speech articulated the MMD Government’s development agenda and, indeed, the aspirations of the Zambian people, hence the theme for the 2011 Budget “A people’s Budget, from a people’s Government”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, from the outset, let me start by saying that I am very confident that all well-meaning hon. Members of this House will support this Budget. This is because any reasonable person will have confidence in what they have seen and experienced as opposed to promises of a brilliant and rosy future which may never materialise. 

Mr Speaker, for over a decade now, we have seen the steady growth of our economy. We have seen infrastructure development in terms of schools, hospitals, roads, hotels and retail outlets. We have seen a wide choice in banking, transport and telecommunication services. There has been improvement in access to water, sanitation and electricity.

Mr Speaker, yes, some might say that this is not enough and, indeed, we, as Government, are the first to admit this because we acknowledge the fact that success is a journey and not a destination.

We have not become complacent even in the face of tremendous progress because we have a long-term vision and conviction that there is still much more to be done and to be accomplished. That is why it is the desire of those on this side of the House, Mr Speaker, to continue with their gallant agenda for the development of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: This will be with continued vigour, courage, determination and without being swayed by detractors.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: The progress made, so far, is a clear indication that the MMD Government’s policies and strategies are definitely working. So, I ask myself why anybody would want to change a working formula and a winning team to embark on experiments.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: That is why some people say, “If something is not broken, do not fix it.” Accept that the good performance is as a result of well-defined and working strategies formulated by this hardworking and committed Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, a critical analysis of the 2011 Budget will confirm serious commitment of this Government to achieving the millennium development goals (MDGs). Some have criticised this Budget saying that the expected allocations for health, education and agriculture fall below those agreed through international agendas and declarations. Indeed, challenges may be there, but this Government is committed to meeting the prescribed allocations and significant amounts of funding continue to be allocated to the critical areas.

Mr Speaker, for instance, in health, the allocation of domestic resource to the sector in the proposed budget has been increased by 30 per cent as compared to 2010. Water supply and sanitation has also seen a significant allocation. Poverty reduction efforts continue to be made through the support of agriculture and food security, infrastructure development, especially in rural areas, to create wealth, employment and bring delivery of social services closer to the people.

Sir, we have made tremendous progress towards achieving some of the MDGs. For instance, in education, sizeable amounts of funding have been provided for the construction of schools, administration offices and staff accommodation and the recruitment of teachers.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mrs C. M. Kapwepwe: You can travel to any province in this country and come across infrastructure development programmes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: In addition, assessment of the performance of the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) shows that there has been an increase in school completion rates and pupil-teacher ratios for some levels of schooling. The Government plans to go further.

 Mr Speaker, for the 2011 Budget, we propose to recruit 5,000 more teachers and provide desks and learning materials. In the MDG target related to education, the Government has made commendable progress as is the case for health, where we have seen, for example, a reduction in maternal mortality rates.

Mr Chilembo: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, public expenditure management is a critical element of the development agenda and prudent use of funding will ensure that resources, whether domestically mobilised, granted or loaned, are efficiently applied on intended activities and programmes. To support this, the Government has taken several measures to improve management of public resources. These measures include embarking on computerisation of our accounting and information systems, establishing of audit committees, strengthening debt management and creating of a Financial Intelligence Unit.

One major area of public resource management is monitoring and evaluation. In this year’s Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has called for concerted efforts and great and active participation by stakeholders in monitoring of projects countrywide.

Mr Chilembo: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Stakeholders must partner with the Government in monitoring efforts, thereby promoting ownership, enhancing transparency and accountability of pubic funds. Instead of always complaining and lamenting about lack of accountability, especially from across the Floor, our friends on your left, Mr Speaker, would do well, for once, to be part of the solution instead of always focusing on wholesale criticism.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: In addition, the coming of the Sixth National Development Plan will promote a more effective result-driven monitoring and evaluation framework. These measures, including new supporting legislation, surely confirm the Government’s commitment to the fight against corruption and other vices and inefficiency which all translate into great cost to the Treasury and opportunity lost to advance other developmental programmes.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear! Bwekeshapo nafuti!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, the 2011 Budget, proposes to commit more resources towards programmes and projects that carry high economic and social returns and to finance almost 83 per cent of the budget from domestic resources with a reminder of 17 per cent from external resource. This is, indeed, in line with the ultimate objective of self-reliance and moving away from over reliance on external funding. 

Mr Speaker, recent global economic developments, especially in the Western World, with significant economic slow down and other related challenges, must surely signal the need for emerging economies to reduce their dependency on donor funding. Issues around donor funding predictability, aid effectiveness, fragmentation of aid and country ownership of developmental programmes are all issues we must continue to reflect on. In Bemba we say, “Amafuta yakulomba tayakumana mubili.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: This means you cannot depend on the generosity of others as they are only able to give what they can and not go by the size of your need.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: We must, therefore, aim to be self-reliant. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: Amafuta yakulomba!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: In view of the foregoing, the Government should be commended for taking deliberate steps to increase self-reliance. In addition, the use of other funding options such as the private-public partnership (PPP) model for infrastructure development will allow for augmentation of the limited public funding by tapping into the vast resource of private sector funding. This will bring a two-fold benefit of accelerating the pace of infrastructure development and the release of public funding for other social development.

As I conclude, Mr Speaker, the MMD Government’s overall objectives remain focused on sustained macroeconomic stability, promotion of economic diversification to underpin and support our efforts in poverty reduction and economic and social development, wealth creation and attainment of the MDGs.

The Sixth National Development Plan will place strategic focus on infrastructure and human development. In addition, we will see continued realignment of expenditures away from administration towards investment in economic and social service delivery. The hon. Minister, in his Budget Speech, emphasised this Government’s commitment to ensuring that our country’s economic successes translate into tangible benefits for our people countrywide and empowers the citizenry. I quote from his Speech as follows:

“This is a people’s budget that empowers our citizens in unprecedented ways by creating opportunities and widening possibilities. But real empowerment is self- empowerment. This is my open challenge to the Zambian people: use these possibilities to aim higher and reach further to achieve your full potential.”

Mr Speaker, let us all, as a people, move in unison towards the realisation of self reliance, whether at country level or individual level so that we can be masters of our destiny. This Government is providing the enabling environment required for us to move towards self-actualisation.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: This, Mr Speaker, is a Budget that centres on ensuring that all citizens benefit from the sustainable and continued growth of our economy and should be supported by all of us.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: In accordance with the good practice of this House, the Back Bench of the governing party and the political groups on my left ought to have contributed to the debate on the Motion by last Friday. So that, by today, the hon. Members of the Cabinet who have not done so would take the Floor and answer the concerns that have been expressed on the Floor of the House on the 2011 Budget.

As announced last Friday, tomorrow is the day for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to wind up debate on this Motion as well as the Chairperson of the Expanded Committee to give the House the overview of what the Committee observed and recommended when considering the Budget Address. 

Again, we should remember that, tomorrow, this House will deal with the first four portfolios in the Government. However, I still see a number of hon. Members, especially on my left, wanting to contribute to the debate. You remember how much time we lost at the beginning, but now you want to stampede into debating. If you do that after the Cabinet Ministers and their Deputies have already contributed to the debate, who will answer your concerns? Would you wish to give the last words?

Hon. Member: Yes.

Mr Speaker: He says yes. My emphasis now, in accordance with practice, is to find out whether there are still other hon. Members of the Cabinet and hon. Deputy Ministers who wish to answer. Are there any?

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the 2011Budget Speech presented to the House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, this Budget is the best ever presented over the years. I say so because most budgets that have been presented in this House were full of figures, but without explanations on how that money would be expended and on what projects. In this Budget, the hon. Minister has outlined how and where the money is going to be used. I have observed that, in every province, there are, at least, one or two big projects to be undertaken.

Mr Speaker, our brothers and sisters in the Southern, Western, North-Western, Central and all the other provinces will agree with me that a good number of projects have been budgeted for in their areas. This Government is aware of how some people are jittery about it because they have selfish minds …

Mr Speaker: Order!

 You should withdraw the word ’selfish’.

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘selfish’ and replace it with ‘just thinking of themselves’.

Mr Speaker, most people with opposing minds just want to use this House to be heard so that people know that they are able to talk politics in the House. I would like to advise that the people should look at the development which this Government has brought to this country. I would like to warn those who think of changing the Government anyhow that this can be dangerous at times. First of all, they should look at the kind of projects the MMD Government has brought to this nation and be able to say thank you for such development in areas where …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
 Chair]

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was talking about how the Government has brought development in this country. A lot of development in terms of schools, clinics, hospitals and many others such as mobile hospitals can be seen.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, Zambia is a democratic country with a democratic Government. The other governments, which people are trying to form, are full of dictatorship and themselves. Such kind of people or governments are dangerous to bring forward.

Mr D. Mwila: Question!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. The ministry has given a lot of prospecting licences and, in addition to that, mining licences have been issued to those who have finished prospecting. There are a lot of Zambians, at present, with mining licences, but the only problem is that most of the citizens of this country sell their licences to foreigners because of plans and agendas that we may not know. 

Mr Speaker, our position, as a Government, is to encourage all Zambians to go into partnership with the investors who are coming so that they have a sense of ownership. If this is implemented and continued, you will see that, at the end of the day, most of the mines will be in the hands of Zambians.

Mr Speaker, this Budget touches a lot of areas that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning outlined. This is especially so in the education sector as evidenced by the number of schools which have been built. All these show that the Budget has touched all the areas which were supposed to be contained. I wonder why some hon. Members on your left are still denying the fact that this Government is doing well, and yet a lot of projects are being seen. In every constituency, there is either a school, road or clinic being worked upon. I wish to urge our colleagues on your left to learn to accept what the Government has done. A lot of projects have been taken to their constituencies.

Mr Speaker, some people may not understand why we are hon. Ministers. 

Interruptions 

Mr Nkhata: A Minister is free to debate from any corner of what is happening in this country unless you do not know this. 

Hon. Government Members: Tell them.

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, if you do not know, like our brothers on your left, the best thing to do is to keep quiet.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, of course, the Government cannot do everything at the same time. It has a system, plans, ways and know-how. The Government does not just do things haphazardly. It has plans of doing things and this is why the people of Zambia are going to bring back this Government of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, I know why most of the hon. Members on your left are worried about this Budget. It is because Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane has covered most of the projects which they wanted to use for the 2011 election campaign. Therefore, they have nothing to tell the people because most of the things have been covered by this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning …

Hon. Opposition Members: Chilanga!

Mr Nkhata: Though others are saying Chilanga, we shall get Chilanga when the time comes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, as I am speaking now, others are crying in Mpulungu because they have lost the election

Mr Muntanga: Iye, some people are crying in Chilanga.

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, however, in my speech I would like to say that it is not easy for those in power to lose the reigns of power. Like us, in the MMD, we cannot give out power like we are giving out nshima. We shall work hard to ensure that we remain in the Government so that we shame those who think that we are going to leave. Look at the power that we have. You should not think we are playing or joking.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, some of the hon. Members on your left promised the people in their constituencies when they were standing for elections as hon. Members of Parliament in 2006 that if the people voted for them, they would have good roads and water and enough food. However, if those things have not been given to the people, what will happen to them? They promised people things which they have failed to fulfil. Now, they have been vindicated because this is the end of the day and people will ask them why they have not fulfilled what they promised them. That is the reason we shall come back as the Government into this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Nkhata: Mr Speaker, it is not easy. We, in the MMD Government, are more than ready to face any party. The Budget has answered most of the worries of the people. It is a well-meaning Budget with the theme “A people’s Budget, from a People’s Government”. This is to remain in the people’s heads.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Chilembo): Mr Speaker, I will just make two major points because most of the issues have been ably covered by my colleagues on your right. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Where is your hair?

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I would like to say that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has done a great job. This is a Budget which is in harmony with the President’s Speech. People said we are campaigning, but I think they are not being honest. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chilembo: The truth of the matter is that, in politics, we have all the time to show what you have done so that you can be retained in power if you are in power. Those of you who are not in power will also want to show what you have done so that you can get into power. However, for us, there is no reason to expect us not to come here and show why we think we are the people who are working and who should continue to govern this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, this Budget is clearly showing a plan on what we, as a Government, are going to do for the people. We have a manifesto to follow and we promised the people that we will deliver. This Budget is the vehicle we will use to deliver on our policies. So, it is political deception to say that this Budget is nothing, but a campaign gimmick. There is nothing wrong with asking the people to vote for you after you have worked well.

Interruptions 

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, I get surprised when I hear people say that the Budget total has been reduced, and yet it has been increased. Last year, in 2010, it was K16.7 trillion and, in 2011, we are talking about K20.5 trillion. Our colleagues in the Opposition are saying, “Why have you increased it?” They argue that it is not realistic and ask why we have done that. I thought we should be celebrating. 

Mr Speaker, when we come to deal with individual portfolios, the same hon. Members will be saying this money is not enough. Add this and that. Therefore, what can we do? The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has done what is correct by increasing the total Budget to K20.5 trillion and he did not just pluck this figure from the skies. He did a scientific study approach, where he showed where this revenue would come from and how it would be spent after being realised. It is systematic. 

Madam Speaker, it is not like our colleagues in the Opposition, when they stand up to speak, will say things without any support or study the statistics with us. What we must realise is that we have a very good Civil Service, the technocrats, who sit down with us and discuss issues. That is why when we stand here and talk, you should not think we are alone. Behind us, there are technocrats who feed us with information and what issues we should bring up here and, usually, it is well-researched information that might be lacking from the people on your left, Mr Speaker.

Therefore, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on increasing this Budget and advise him not to worry about what our colleagues in the Opposition are saying because they can never be pleased. If you had not increased the budget allocation, they would have said it is static. If you had reduced, they would have said you have failed. Now that you have increased it, they are saying you are dreaming. So, what do you do? Just do what is right and we, as a Government, are proud of this Budget.

Mr Speaker, what excites me most is the fact that we have reduced dependence for the support of our Budget. We now need 17 per cent Budget support. Not long ago, our dependence was about 64 per cent. After all, this is something brilliant which every Zambian should celebrate, especially after forty-six years of independence. What we are seeing now is a move towards economic dependence and this should give joy to all of us. 

However, Mr Speaker, I heard negative debates suggesting that the donors have dumped the Government and have stopped giving it funds. It is not that. We, as a Government, have a policy and are looking forward to the day we can have our Budget totally financed by our local resources. This way, when we are talking to donors, it will not be from a position of weakness. Yes, co-operating partnerships will continue, but we do not want to be in a weak position where we are bruising our knees. Time should come when we should no longer require our knees to be bruised to get something.

Mr Speaker, we cannot say we are independent if we have no economic independence. I think that, as politicians, we should always be looking for ways to wean our country off international aid. Even our co-operating partners would be happy if we achieved that. So, there is no point in some people celebrating the fact that we are getting reduced donor support. It is our deliberate policy to wean Zambia off donor aid because, as most of us may know, this aid comes in the form of loans which normally have conditionalities that are sometimes unfavourable to us. 

Nowadays, there are a lot of discussions on good governance and human rights. However, some human rights issues may not necessarily be in line with our culture. For instance, there is the issue of gay rights that allow a man to marry a woman …

Interruptions

Mr Chilembo: … sorry, a man marrying another man or a woman marrying another woman. Is that normal?

Interruptions

Mr Chilembo: We know that just for the sake of getting a coin, some political parties are already advocating gay rights. Are these serious politicians?

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Chilembo: Zambians have said no to this type of human right. I doubt if people in developed countries even enjoy such rights because when it is discovered, and I am saying discovered because it is always done in secrecy, that someone is gay, it is a scandal. Why should we think that these are human rights?

Mr Speaker, we are saying that we need to be weaned off donor support so that we are truly independent and are able to protect our cultural rights and values. If we continue to be weak economically and depend on donors, the things they are calling rights will encroach on our country and Zambians will not forgive us, leaders, for this. So, I urge our colleagues in the Opposition not to advocate for gay rights just because they want a few coins from foreigners because this is clearly not Zambian. If, however, they choose to continue advocating for such rights, Zambians will, next year, decide who should lead them. We will see how many votes the Opposition get if they continue doing this.

Mr Muntanga: We have just won the Chilanga by-election.

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, this is a National Budget. It is very sad that some of our colleagues were complaining about roads being constructed in some areas and not in their villages. That type of thinking will not develop this country. As leaders, we need to look at issues from a national perspective and promote unity. The money allocated in this Budget is for everyone, hence the theme, “A people’s Budget, from a people’s Government”. We are a people’s Government because we were democratically elected. 

Mr Speaker, those who have tendencies of regionalism in their approach towards infrastructure development should know that, in due course, all parts of the country will be worked on. Even in our own homes, it is rare that one can provide for everybody at once. So, there will be a time when everyone will be catered for. This Government is not selective because it has taken a lot of resources even to Opposition strongholds. An example is the tarring of the Zimba/Livingstone Road. As we all know, that road is not in an area that is an MMD stronghold. 

Another example is the marketing of maize in the country. Money has been paid to farmers in most of our constituencies. The hon. Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives just clarified this and thanked hon. Members for giving him this information. This Government looks after everyone, including those who oppose it daily even when it does good things. Some people just refuse to say, “Thank you”.

Mr Muntanga: Talk about Chilanga.

Chilembo: We say utalumbi …

Hon. Government Members:  Mubwa.

Mr Chilembo: This means that a person who is ungrateful may not be a very good person.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: With those few words, I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I wish to appeal to hon. Ministers and hon. Deputy Ministers to heed Mr Speaker’s guidance to debate early this afternoon. The House cannot adjourn now. If you are not standing to debate, you give the Chair no option, but to call on the people on my left to debate …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: … so that we do not simply waste time.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Sir, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Lubinda: … I can see the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services and the party chairperson for the MMD pointing fingers, accusing me of having debated the Budget Speech.

Mr Mabenga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member on the Floor has had his opportunity to debate this Motion. Is he allowed to debate for the second time? I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order that is being raised is to the effect that the hon. Member for Kabwata has already debated this Motion, but I am informed that, in fact, he debated the Presidential Speech and not this particular Motion. That being the case, the hon. Member may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I thank you very much for your protection. Just to remind the chairperson for the MMD, this is my ninth year in this House and, therefore, I know the rules of debate. I know very well that I cannot debate a Motion twice. The senior hon. Member seems to be very worried about my debate and that is the reason he is raising objections.

Mr Muntanga: He is not even senior.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, nonetheless, from the outset, let me acknowledge the fact that from the recently held elections, the MMD retained one of its two constituencies that it held. The Ruling Party also retained two wards which it had held; that is one in Petauke and the second one in Mansa.

Sir, let me now congratulate the UPND for recapturing the Chilanga Constituency seat from the MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: The UPND really deserves it. Let me also congratulate the PF for retaining two of its wards.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Actually, it retained one in Chinsali and captured two new wards. It retained one ward in Ndola, from the Heritage Party, and the other in Luanshya, from the party in which Hon. Mabenga is national chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, all in all, the UPND and its partner, the PF, have won three new seats and lost none. Let the record be put clearly that the PF and UPND have won three seats and lost none whereas the MMD lost Chilanga Constituency which was held by none other than its former hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: The MMD also lost in Luanshya. So, as a matter of fact, we can now stand here and say we have won by 3-0. I, therefore, want to congratulate the noble men and women on your left.

Mr Sikazwe: What about Mpulungu?

Mr Lubinda: Since I am being told to talk about Mpulungu, let me congratulate the people of Mpulungu and the PF for a very impressive and progressive performance.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: For the sake of those who do not understand figures, like somebody who got confused early this afternoon with simple figures, let me remind those on your right what I mean when I say an impressive and progressive performance in Mpulungu. 

Sir, in 2006, the late hon. Member for Mpulungu, Mr Chibombamilimo, using the MMD ticket, managed to get 87 per cent of the total votes cast against 12 per cent of the UPND combined with the PF, and yet, in yesterday’s elections, notwithstanding the rigging, double voting ...

Mr Mwaanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwaanga: Mr Speaker, is it in order for the hon. Member for Kabwata to allege that there was rigging in Mpulungu without producing evidence to support his claim? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order raised by the Chief Whip on the speech of the hon. Member for Kabwata is valid. The hon. Member for Kabwata will either produce the evidence or withdraw the statement.

You may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Thank you, Sir. There are MMD cadres who are currently in detention and being investigated for double voting ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The hon. Member must, please, produce evidence.

You may continue.

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, since the evidence will have to come through the police when they finish investigations, I will veer away from that issue and go to the next point.

Hon. Government Members: Withdraw.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the performance of the PF ...

Hon. Government Members: Withdraw.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Unless there is evidence, that statement should be withdrawn.

You may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I withdraw. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: However, I wish to emphasise that the PF and UPND shall await, with a keen interest, the results of the investigations being conducted concerning two MMD cadres who are currently in custody on the allegation of double voting and interfering with a free and fair electoral process in the Mpulungu Constituency By-election.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the voting that took place ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I have given the hon. Member for Kabwata enough time to give a preamble, but it seems like it has become the debate now. May the hon. Member, please, get back to the Motion on the Floor?

You may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Thank you, Sir. 

Sir, let me talk about the 2011 Budget. The theme of the budget is, “A people’s Budget, from a people’s Government”. The question to ask is: What is for the people in this budget? Secondly, what is for the people in the MMD Government itself? The hon. Minister is boasting, throughout the 2011 Budget Address, that the MMD Government has delivered positive growth for eleven years in a row. To whom has the positive growth been delivered? He has proposed, in his speech, that positive growth is being delivered to the Zambian people. He is boasting of 6.6 per cent growth in 2010 and anticipating 6 per cent growth in 2011. One has to evaluate the improvement in the standard of living of the people to assess if the growth has been for the people. Has the life of the people in Kabwata improved over the last eleven years? Have the lives of the Zambians improved as a result of the 6.6 per cent growth? 

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the people on your right have answered in the affirmative. Let them continue. Have the poverty levels been reduced over the last eleven years?

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the answer, again, is in the affirmative that poverty has reduced. In search of an answer, I consulted far and wide and there was nothing to show that the MMD Government had delivered positive growth to the Zambian people. So, it is not only a question of saying, “Yes, yes.” Eleven years of growth has not been for Zambians. Those saying, “Yes, yes” continuously should, unfortunately, be reminded that they are so engrossed in their positions that they do not even read their own documents. 

Sir, the document that I will use in my debate is not authored by the Opposition, but written by the Ruling Party. I want those who said, “Yes, yes” to listen very carefully. Out of shame, some will walk away from the truth ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: ... and I want to say the bare truth. Has the eleven years of continued economic growth been delivered to the Zambian people?

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: Yes, they say. The 2011/2015 Sixth National Development Plan draft headlined, “Growth and Poverty”, says:

“The economic growth experienced during the last decade has not translated into significant reductions in poverty and improved general living conditions of the majority Zambians.”

Mr Mulongoti: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Kabwata, who is debating in a very annoying manner, in order to quote from a document which is not yet official? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order raised by the hon. Minister of Works and Supply reminds the hon. Member who is debating to take cognisance of the fact that he is quoting from a draft. Until it is an official document, it is very difficult to take the correct position. The hon. Member for Kabwata may continue and take that into account.

You may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I thank you most sincerely. In taking that ruling into account, I wish to remind my colleagues that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has quoted from this document in various fora, including when he submitted to the expanded Committee on Estimates. Therefore, if it is good for them, it is good for us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: What is good for the goose must be good for the gander.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the Sixth National Development Plan has been quoted by hon. Ministers. For whom is the growth if not for Zambians?

Mr Malwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Sir, for me to answer the questions, let me look at the growth sectors in the hon. Minister’s 2011 Budget Address. The hon. Minister said that growth, in 2010, was driven by two key sectors, namely agriculture and mining. In agriculture, the MMD is boasting about ...

Mr Malwa rose.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Will the hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services, please, take his seat? 

Hon. Members, the difficulty you put the Chair in is that if a document has been quoted by the Executive itself, then it becomes extremely difficult for the Chair to rule that the document should not be quoted. Unless the point of order is going to correct that position and state that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has not quoted from it to the Committee of this House, I will have to allow the hon. Member debating to quote from it.

The hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services may raise his point of order.

Mr Malwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Mr Malwa: ... especially when a clumsy debater is on the Floor of the House. The Chair ruled earlier that if the document is a draft, it is not supposed to be quoted. Is the hon. Member for Kabwata in order to overrule the Chair’s ruling? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order raised by the hon. Deputy Minister has to do with a ruling I made earlier. I recall saying to the Hon. Member on the Floor of the House that he had to take into account the fact that he was quoting from a draft. He, however, justified the use of the draft. His response to my ruling was that, in fact, that draft had been used by the Executive. He cited the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as having quoted from it during a presentation to one of the Committees of this House. That, obviously, meant that the document was being used by the Executive and, therefore, you cannot undermine its validity, at this point, just because it is being used by the Opposition. I do not see anything wrong with the position that I have taken. 

The hon. Member for Kabwata may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I thank you, for your guidance.

Mr Lubinda: This is the tragedy of being governed by people who do not take governance issues seriously and think that they can govern this country as though it was a kanthemba.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: These are people who do not read their own documents. Sir, I said I referred to the presentation by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to your Expanded Estimates Committee.

Sir, just in case some people say that they were not privy to the information that I am giving, I want to say to the Executive that this Budget, which they are so proud of and have said so many things about, makes reference to the Sixth National Development Plan. The fact that some hon. Members from the Executive are not aware of what I am saying goes to show that they do not read.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I want to quote on page 14 of, not of the draft speech as Hon. Vernon Mwaanga wishes to make himself believe, but the original speech, delivered by no other than by Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane. Unfortunately, when he read the speech, half of the hon. Members on your right side were half asleep and, therefore, did not listen.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: We, on your left side take our business seriously and listen.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, on page 14, paragraph 99, the hon. Minister said:

“Mr Speaker, this Budget marks the first year of the implementation of the Sixth National Development Plan which places strategic focus on infrastructure and human development.”

The hon. Minister made reference to the draft Sixth National Development Plan. Had everyone in here been able to use their ears for the right purpose, my debate would not have been disturbed.

Hon. Opposition Member: Malwa!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, let me talk about the growth sectors of the gross domestic product (GDP), one of which is agriculture. This Government has been boasting over the 2.8 million tonnes of maize claiming that it has been as a result of the FSIP.

Sir, if that programme was aimed at the alleviation of poverty amongst farmers, we have to ask the questions that Hon. Muntanga asked. When you give farmers four bags of fertiliser, you are in effect asking them to invest in half a hectare at the production, which Hon. Jonas Shakafuswa referred to, of only two tonnes per hectare. It means that with four bags, they only produce one tonne. For the sake of the Chairperson of the MMD, let me explain that one tonne translates into 20 x 50 kg bags.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, 20 x 50kg bags at K65 thousand translates to K1.3 million income for a family for a year. Are you really reducing poverty? Are you bringing those people out of poverty? Can you compare that to the minimum living wage or the minimum amount of money on which a person should live a day?

Sir, the K1.3 million at the exchange rate of K4,700 translates to only US$276 per year. Hon. Mabenga, that translates to US$23 per month. Can you really say that you have alleviated poverty and helped the people?

Sir, I asked a question, last week, as regards how many of the people who had been receiving support from the FISP had been weaned off it. The answer is none. It shows you that even the agricultural sector, which the Government is boasting about, has not been used as an engine to alleviate poverty.

Mr Muntanga: No!

Mr Lubinda: The bumper harvest the Government is talking about translates into twenty bags for each farmer. It is K1.3 million per farmer and it says that that amount of money per year is enough to alleviate poverty.

Mr D. Mwila: Shame!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the FSIP requires the men and women who are sitting on your left to manage it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: As a matter of fact, Hon. Mabenga will remember that he was in this House when some of the men and women on your left …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Member, I think you should leave Hon. Mabenga alone …

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: … and concentrate on your debate regarding the Motion without drawing him into it.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I hope that the hon. Member will stop making catcalls because if he continues, I will respond.

Sir, let me move away from the maize business and go to that of wheat. On the 15th of October, 2010, you might recall that I asked His Honour the Vice-President a question concerning the marketing of agricultural produce in Zambia with particular reference to wheat. Typical of the Government, His Honour the Vice-President said that I always raise questions that he is never aware of and that if I had information regarding what I was talking about, I should take it to him, as though I were part of the Government.

The question I raised concerned the issue of food deficits in this country and the escalating cost of living for the people. The Vice-President said that he was not aware of that, and yet his hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives had received a petition on the 26th of August regarding that issue.

Hon. Government Members: From whom?

Mr Lubinda: The Millers Association of Zambia complained about the Government having awarded export licences to two traders to mop out all the 210 thousand  metric tonnes of wheat that was produced locally to export it at an import parity price of US$550 per tonne after paying farmers only US$320 per tonne.

Sir, the effect has been that the price of wheat in the country has increased tremendously and, soon, the people will not be able to afford flour and flour products. I will lay this letter on the Table at the end of my debate so that His Honour the Vice-President can have the information that he claimed his Government did not have on the 15th of October. This is when, in fact, this letter was written and properly delivered to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, on the 26th of August, 2010, in which the millers were complaining about a matter over which the Vice-President claimed ignorance.

This is the tragedy of having a Government where some people do not know what is happening within the Government. Information is kept as though it were private. This is the reason there are so many things being done under the carpet.

Hon. Shikapwasha: You also do not know what is happening in the PF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: That is the reason this Government has not even issued a statutory instrument (SI) to withdraw the ban on the export of wheat. Why does it not also withdraw the ban on the importation of wheat so that people can import it? Instead, the Government has allowed two traders to export all of our wheat and, therefore, increase the local prices of the product.

Interruptions

Mr Chota: Tamwaishiba economics imwe!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, as regards the mining sector, my colleagues on your left have debated the mining sector adequately. The hon. Minister said that this is another area of growth for the GDP. If the mining sector is an area of growth for the GDP, let us ask the pertinent questions such as how much is the mining sector contributing to the Government revenue as compared to individuals in the country?

For the sake of those like my colleague, Hon. Malwa, who has no time to read, let me remind him that the Budget says …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

You will withdraw that statement.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I withdraw that statement.

Mr Speaker, whereas the mining sector is only contributing K1,858 billion to this year’s Government revenue, individual workers are contributing double the amount at K3.7 trillion. Would you really say then that the mining sector is the growth sector of the country?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Lubinda: Obviously, even if it is growing, it is not contributing the much-needed revenue to the Government Treasury. That is the reason the growth you are talking about is not translating to improving the standards of living of the people. That is where the challenge is.

Mr Speaker, in the last one minute that I have, let me respond to what my friend, the Member of Parliament for Chimbamilonga, Hon. Sikazwe, talked about when he made reference to me. I would like to emphasise that it does not make sense, at all, to invest K180 billion in the building of the Kasaba Bay Airport when there are only twenty-three beds in the Kasaba Bay area. The Government is building an airport to carry the capacity of a Boeing 737-800 which will carry passengers numbering 400. Where will you get the 400 passengers to fly straight into Kasaba Bay? Rather than spending money on the Kasaba Bay Airport, that money should have been spent where tourism is already flourishing. That money would have been spent wisely on the tarring of the Kasama and …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … Mansa airports …

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … rather than the Government being proud of only putting terminals at those airports, and yet the aeroplanes are landing on gravel. That does not make any economic sense.

Mr Speaker, I would have wanted the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to tell me what he is going to do to mitigate the impact of floods in Kabwata. The whole Budget Speech is quiet about that.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House. Before, I say what I want to say, allow me to congratulate the UPND for scooping the Chilanga Parliamentary By-election.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: To the MMD, I say congratulations for scooping …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: … and retaining the Mpulungu Parliamentary Constituency seat, which was very competitive.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: I would like to tell the MMD not to worry because it did very well. 

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: I was speaking to Hon. Simbao this morning and he appeared very sad about the margin in the Mpulungu By-election results. However, I told him not worry because a win is a win.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, I want to share with you what I will call the Chindoloma Theory.

Mr V. Mwale: Ntondo Chindoloma!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: The late Ntondo Mwemena Chindoloma was in this House in the eighth Parliament. He told me one thing. He said when you are in a competitive election, you are not supposed to win convincingly or overwhelmingly. All you are required to do is to win by a small margin so that the loser feels so bad that they should have been the hon. Member of Parliament, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: … but they are not.

I know the Chindoloma Theory has its own strength as well as its shortcomings, but I believe in it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, the wonderful people of the Luapula Province …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: … have consistently shown that they have the ability to change their allegiance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: Kulibe kulibe!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: They showed this in Chienge. They made their preferred candidate win in Chienge Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: They moved to the PF in Mwansabombwe …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: … and took over. They moved …

Interruptions

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, twice now, in Mansa, the people of Luapula Province have realised that the seeds they planted in 2006, were wrong seeds and now …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, I need your protection.

Laughter

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: The people of Luapula have realised that it does not pay to belong to the Opposition. When you are given a borehole, …

Mr Sikazwe: Hammer!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: … you should be able to say thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: You are not supposed to say, “Well you have given me a borehole, but we need a lake”, because that is not the way things are done.

Mr Speaker, the people of the Luapula Province are focused and intelligent. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: They know what they want. I know that some people may be able to say …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I think the introduction is becoming a little too long.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Will you, please, focus on the Motion on the Floor.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, in winding up my preamble, before I move to the Motion on the Floor, let me state that once the people of Luapula make a decision, they work and stand together. A by-election is a big measure for bigger things to come.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, let me now move to the Motion on the Floor of the House. I was not here when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning delivered the Budget Address to this House. One of my lecturers, who is normally very critical on issues, phoned me after the Budget Address. He said, “Hon. Chitika, the Budget that was delivered today is a good Budget.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: I was shocked because of the way he behaves sometimes. Wondering what had happened for him to say what he had said, after he had finished talking to me, I went to check on the internet to search for the Budget Address that was delivered by Hon. Dr Musokotwane so that I could read it. Allow me to commend Hon. Dr Musokotwane for presenting to the House the theme rightly put as: “A People’s Budget, from a People’s Government.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, Dr Musokotwane acknowledged, in his speech, that despite what the Government has achieved so far, a lot more still needs to be done. He acknowledged that fact. The people of Kawambwa are saying that they have seen schools and hospitals being built, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitik-Molobeka: … in Kawambwa, Luapula Province, and the rest of the country, but what is important is for the Government of the people to acknowledge that a lot still needs to be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: The people of Kawambwa are saying when the Government is ready to do what needs to be done, it should look at a number of issues.

The first issue has to do with the Luena Sugar Plantation.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: The Luena Sugar Plantation was provided for in the 2010 Budget. The people of Kawambwa expected the money to be released for the preliminary works on the plantation, but nothing has been done to date. The people are saying that the Government knows that there are some things that require to be done and they expect that last year’s and this year’s budget allocations will be released to ensure that works on the plantation commence.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, we were expecting a sum of K300 million to work on the Kapako Irrigation Scheme. We expected this money in May, but it was not released and the people of Kawambwa are saying that out of the things that are going to be done, the Government should remember that the budget allocation for the Kapako Irrigation Scheme has not yet been released.

Mr Speaker, no rural road has been worked on in the Luapula Province … 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: … and we are wondering what is happening. Some people are even complaining about the management of the provincial leadership, but we know that, probably, they have not performed as expected due to late release of funds. 

Mr Speaker, rains have started in Kawambwa. There was a provision of K167 million to work on the Kamfukeshi/ Lengwe Road in this year’s Budget, but nothing has been done. The people of Kawambwa are saying that they need rural roads to enable them transport their maize.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about the Muyombe Dam. This dam was constructed almost three years ago and it collapsed. It was rebuilt using colossal sums of money and the hon. Minister even talked about it in this House. Four days before the hon. Minister’ speech, the dam collapsed and we were told that it was due to poor engineering works. 

Mr Lubinda: Ba Mulongoti!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Kawambwa is on a plateau and there are no major rivers in the district. This dam brought a lot of life to the people of Kawambwa. At the moment, as I am talking, it is no more. There is no dam as the water has run dry. 

Mr Speaker, the list of problems is endless. I am only appealing to the Government that as it looks into the needs of other areas, it should also look into the needs of the people of Kawambwa who would want to see a situation where they have a share in the growth of this country. 

Mr Speaker, as regards the Kawambwa Tea Company, the problem there is no longer a labour relations issue. It is political and I would like to appeal to the Government, through the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security, to ensure that this issue is dealt with politically. 

Mr Lubinda: Aautwi?

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, the teachers are very happy about what is happening in terms of infrastructure development. A few houses are being constructed, but there is the thorny issue of rural hardship allowances. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Speaker, this issue, if not harnessed properly, the teachers are going to be used to decampaign the Government. At the moment, some people are taking advantage of this by using the rural hardship allowance to speak against the Government. You know that the teachers are the opinion leaders, especially in rural areas. So, if the Government does not take care of this, it will bring a lot of problems.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor. I want to acknowledge the manner in which the Budget Speech was presented. This raised a lot of questions on my mind and gave me time to reflect on a lot of issues, especially given the subsequent debates that arose. 

Mr Speaker, before, I go any further, let me firstly congratulate all those who won by-elections. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: Mr Speaker, when I listen to the various debates on the Budget Speech, I ask myself what is happening to us as the tendency is now to think at provincial level. I am now worried because it means that if nothing is said about one province, then it will mean nothing to anyone. I find it very strange that one office holder can be held accountable for a Government decision. 

Mr Speaker, we had the late Arthur Wina as hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in this country. The Mongu/Kalabo Road was directly under his ambit, but he did not touch it because people were looking at issues from a national perspective. We had the late Kebby Musokotwane who was hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, but he did not touch the Kazungula Bridge, and yet he could have done that. We had the late Nalumino Mundia who was Prime Minister and whose village is, in fact, where the flagging off of the Mongu/Kalabo Road took place, in Tapo. However, he did not put up the Mongu/Kalabo Road. He was looking at issues from a national perspective. We had the late Daniel Lisulo as Prime Minister, but he also did not touch the Mongu/Kalabo Road. What went wrong? Did these people not have foresight? 

Mr Speaker, I find it very strange to listen to the debates we are hearing, today, where we are being told that certain hon. Ministers would have done certain things in the areas where they came from. This country needs all of us. This country needs to look at each province and see where something needs to be done. It is not fair to say that the money which will be spent on the Mongu/Kalabo Road is too much. If those people I had mentioned had foresight and had done something about it, the cost would not have been this much. Now, what is the problem? 

Mr Speaker, the last time I stood on the Floor of this House, I said that I would always admire the various spans of bridges connecting our country to our neighbours. Does that mean that because it is now time to work on the long awaited Mongu/Kalabo Road, a pandora’s box must be opened and a trouble bell should ring from somewhere? We are all Zambians. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: Mr Speaker, I find it very difficult to understand whoever is thinking that they want to get into Government to begin to isolate provinces. What will happen when they come into Government? Are they going to forget about other places? It is a pity. Therefore, I just want to put it on record that even as we had debated last year, it is good that the hon. Minster of Finance and National Planning has had the courage to do what his Government wants to do for the Western Province and also to make sure that we do have a bridge that connects Kazungula to Botswana and Zimbabwe. We need to be connected to other countries. We cannot be isolated. 

Mr Speaker, why is it that the cost of the Chirundu One-stop Post is not talked about? It is because it is important for us to spend that money on that post. Why is it that the money that is to be spent on the Kasumbalesa Border Post is not being talked about? This is because it is important that we have a post there. 

Mr Speaker, it is important to work on the Mongu/Kalabo Road at whatever cost … 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: …because it connects us to the rest of the country. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: It also gives us the opportunity to easily and cheaply access resources from Angola. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: Mr Speaker, let us suppose that this amount of money is too much to spend on one road, what would be the rationale if we divided it? I have been to many provincial headquarters in this country. I know that one can move from one provincial headquarters to another and from any district within the province to another because there are roads connecting these places. It is a different story for the Western Province. One cannot move from Mongu to Lukulu because there is no road. The Kaoma route is a default because it is along the way. It is the only one that is connected to Mongu. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: Can you get to Kalabo? No. 

When going to Senanga, you have to struggle at certain points. Can you travel on a tarred road to Sesheke? No. I could name all the areas that are inaccessible by road in the Western Province. So, what is wrong with this Government doing the right thing?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: What is wrong with connecting the Kazungula Bridge to neighbouring countries so that there are no more deaths on that pontoon? For your information, I lost a cousin, the late Maimbolwa Sakubita, on that pontoon. How many more lives have been lost over a simple thing that can easily be fixed? We need to solve this problem. Do you not want to be connected to other people? 

Mr Speaker, I would like to end my debate by saying that all those in the Government must have the boldness to do what is right for the rest of this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Ms Cifire): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to look at the Budget Speech in connection with the word conviction. Conviction is when one truly believes that what has been pronounced has happened and, at that particular time, they have no questions or further comments to make. 

Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am sorry for disturbing your debate, hon. Minister, but Hon. Lubinda talked about laying a document on the Table. Will he lay it on the Table.

Mr Lubinda laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister may continue.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, to be able to convince people means that there has been communication which people have understood and, at the same time, see that the communication is manifested.  

Mr Speaker, what has happened now is that, as a people, we are truly communicating to an extent where we are seeing things happening. Success is about seeing things happening. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, a few weeks ago, our colleagues on the other side convinced each other that one was an under-five.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Now, we can see that the under-five was convinced about the need to do things differently. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: He needed to wean himself off the breast, stop crawling and start walking. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, this is what conviction does. 

I am happy to see that the under-five has started walking and with that, I wish to go with the other people who have congratulated the United Party for National Development (UPND) for winning the Chilanga seat. 

Laughter 

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, when we see that something is done, we need to encourage each other as a people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, where I come from, we have a saying …

Mrs Musokotwane: Where?

Ms Cifire: Regina, do not challenge me on the Floor. 

Mr Speaker, where I come from in the Eastern Province, we have a saying that, “kususha ngomwa ni kuivulila”.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Meaning?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, the simple meaning to that is that we should not have people like my cousins on the other side who are always threatening to marry me when they cannot. 

Interruptions

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, to convince the people …

Mrs Musokotwane: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Musokotwane: Is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to mislead this House by not properly translating what she means by “kususha ngomwa ni kuivulila” because what she translated is not correct? Unless, Sir, you want me to translate on her behalf.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Deputy Minister for Information and Broadcasting Services is being requested to translate what she said. 

Will you continue and, please, translate properly.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, in the last fours years that we have been here …

Hon. Opposition Member: Translate!

Ms Cifire: Mufuna chani?

Mr Muntanga: Tifuna ngomwa!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, in the last fours years that we have been here, what has been at stake …

Interruptions

Ms Cifire: You have understood …

 Hon. UPND Members: No!

 Ms Cifire: …and that is why you are asking. You would not have asked if you did not know what it was.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister will not engage other hon. Members and she should translate what she said. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I will translate the phrase “kususha ngomwa ni kuivulila”. Kuivulila means undressing ayi.

Laughter 

Ms Cifire: So, this means that one undresses for a man who wants to marry her, although even in his desire, he knows that the marriage will not work because of biological reasons. 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister may continue. Can we maintain order and listen to her. 

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, this is an example of the spirit being willing, but the flesh …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: …being too weak. 

Laughter

Ms Cifire:  Speaker, the first two years, there was a lot of enthusiasm by people wanting to talk and debate when the Budget Speech was made because what they were hoping would happen did not happen. To put it in simple terms, when it started happening, it meant that people no longer had anything to talk about. That is why when the time for debate comes, people are increasingly unable to talk.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the people’s Budget. What are the issues that the Government needs to deliver for people to see that the speech is being translated into reality? It is the issues of water. When the speech was being presented to this House, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated that there were dams being constructed in the Southern Province. Just when the hon. Minister mentioned the issue of dams, Hon. Muntanga sat up and all he wanted, at that particular point, was to have more dams. However, the issue was that the issue of water had been addressed.

Mr Muntanga: What I have done?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, let me come to the issue of boreholes. Everyone is waiting to see that the money is disbursed so that the water and the boreholes are full.

Mr Speaker, let me get back to the issue of education. The cries have been that people wanted to see the construction of schools or school spaces are created. There is a provision in the Budget for the creation of these spaces. 

Mr Speaker, the issue of the road was, at one particular point, what our colleagues on the other side had been crying for. However, now, there is this emotive issue of the money being made available for one of the most important roads to be constructed. What has happened? Everybody has seen that reality is taking root and, hence, each one of us is now crying for that kind of money for the many roads in our various places.

Mr Speaker, the Government is looking at the issues that need to be done differently if the Government is to translate the growth being talked about. If there is this particular road that has been pending for such a long time and which would make a difference immediately it is completed, why should the Government not construct it? What the Government wants is for its people to actually say that is it now doing what it might not, in the past, have done according to its wishes such that they could not see tangible results in the shortest time possible.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms Cifire: What is something tangible? Tangible development is what has been brought out in the Budget this time around. The emotions that we are seeing over just one particular road means that everybody agrees that what we are doing is what the people really want. If, as we have learnt in this House, we will get certain commodities into this country, especially oil or any oil products, at a cheaper rate while waiting to get that oil from Zambezi, then we would have made a bigger difference and translated the change that Zambians want in this country.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the issue of health. We have been crying for health posts and hospitals and they have been made possible with this Budget. At the moment, all we are fighting for is to say …

Mr Simuusa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is the point of order about? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the point of order is on a statement which the hon. Minster raised with regard to the road she said is attracting emotional reactions.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is that procedural really?

Mr Simuusa: Yes, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: No!

May the hon. Minister, please, continue.

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, I am a psychologist by training. The study of emotions was part of my studies. Therefore, I must be able to judge a person’s behaviour because of emotions. Likewise, when I talked about the issue of roads, Hon. D. Mwila, I talked about the issue of emotions and now, we are seeing the manifestation of what I said.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: This is part of the communication that I was talking about. We have done very well ...

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: … because when we talk about what is happening in the country, people listen.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Ms Cifire: When they listen this is what happens. Therefore, for us, it indicates that we are on the right path.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire:  We have done what the people have been waiting for.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: At the moment, I am sure the people of the Western Province are seeing that this is the Government that is going to deliver what they have been crying for.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: This is the caring Government which they have wanted to have. For example, if I take what happened, just yesterday, because the people of Mpulungu have seen that the Budget will translate into the action that they want, even when other people went there and gave examples to disparage what the Government is doing, they said we believe in the Government. This is …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: … especially so at a time we are discussing the Budget. There is hope for the people of Mpulungu for them to say that they are with the Government now, in 2011 and forever.

 Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, before I thank you, I am sure Hon. Ntundu has heard …

Mr D. Mwila: Ekowaya uko!

Ms Cifire: …that, in this Budget, we have been able to tackle the five issues that the people want to see for them to be able to say the Government is working.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for affording me this opportunity to debate very briefly on the Motion on the Budget Speech.

Sir, first of all, I wish to join those who have congratulated the winners of yesterday’s by-elections, MMD for fighting very hard to retain the Mpulungu seat and the UPND for  resoundingly capturing the Chilanga one.

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I took note that when you aggregate the results of Chilanga and Mpulungu, the UPND, with its partner, are way ahead …

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Which partner?

Mr Sejani: The PF.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: As a pact!

Mr Sejani: Yes!

Laughter

Mr Sejani: We are way ahead.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: This is what is going to happen next year. We aggregate these things nationally.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I also wish to take note that we are getting squeezed on this side of the House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Hence, we shall need more space on the other side …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: …because of the numbers that we keep adding onto our camp.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: So, we congratulate the winners.

Major Chizhyuka: Namwala is coming!

Laughter

Mr Sejani: Sir, my debate is going to be restricted to national planning. I realise that this ministry is called the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Major Chizhyuka: That is a waterloo!

Mr Sejani: Therefore, my debate is exclusively on national planning.

Sir, I recall that when we came into power, at the height of our excitement, as the MMD came into power in 1991, the word ‘planning’ in the manner and style that we practice it today, was considered a very dirty word. We were espousing new theories of economic liberalism. Therefore, plans were considered communist, socialist lyrics and old fashioned. It did not take long to realise that, in fact, we could not do away with planning. It did not take long to realise that there is no country that can do without some kind of planning. Hence, we had no choice, but to return to national planning.

Now, upon our return to national planning, I am not at all too sure that, as a country, we have struck an acceptable equilibrium between the dictates of market forces on one hand and the dictates of strategic planning on the other. I am not quite sure that we have managed to strike that balance. If we did, there would not be the gaps we are seeing today. If, in any way, we have made any equilibrium, then we just need to ask a few fundamental questions. What does a nation do if it is engaged in an exercise of national planning? How far does a government go in ensuring that the laws and incentives that it gives to the private sector are good? How far do you bend the market forces to ensure that we direct resources to areas that might not be profitable or areas which the private sector cannot normally go, but which require development?

Mr Speaker, to answer these questions and to find out how well you have balanced this equilibrium, we need to look at the gaps. There must be something fundamentally wrong with the style and manner of planning.

Mrs Musokotwane: Hammer!

Mr Sejani: For example, this year, there is a bumper harvest, but without corresponding marketing arrangements. Then there is something wrong there. You create plans that create bottlenecks. When you pump one side of the equation, without openings on the other side, it means you create a bottleneck. There must be something amiss with the planning that gives you a bumper harvest without corresponding marketing arrangements. There must be something wrong with the planning which gives us so many new schools …

Mrs Musokotwane: No teachers’ houses!

Mr Sejani: … without a corresponding programme for the provision of desks and teachers. It is extremely wrong. There must be something wrong with our nature and manner of planning that gives us so many clinics with no corresponding programmes for the provision of drugs and employment of nurses.

Mrs Musokotwane: Hammer!

Mr Sejani: Can you see that there is something wrong? There must be something wrong with our planning to have so many projects that are unfinished. For example, road construction takes so many years to complete due to lack of funds to the point where, when this project is initially conceived, it costs so little, but by the time it is completed, twenty years later, it costs heaven that it cannot be completed. There must be something wrong there.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, I contend, forcefully, that we have not yet found the equilibrium. We have not yet found out the relationship between the market forces and the desire to plan as a country. That equilibrium is still missing.

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: If it were not missing, these gaps that we are talking about would not have been there.

Mrs Musokotwane: Hammer!

Mr Sejani: Allow me to ask your questions, Mr Speaker. Why is it that, in the midst of economic boom, some people are rejecting this Government and it is losing elections? Why is it that, in the midst of a bumper harvest, this Government is being rejected?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: By farmers!

Mr Sejani: Why is it that, in the midst of the construction boom, this Government has been rejected? If we fail to find answers to those questions, then we are irretrievable politically.

Mr Muyanda: Yes!

Mr Sejani: If we cannot find answers to these basic questions, then we are politically irretrievable.

Mr Muyanda: Yes!

Mr Sejani: It means that we are not paying attention to the minor details that matter in the lives of Zambians. It means our planning is above the people. We are not planning with and for them. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: A plan whose primary sole objective is to achieve economic growth is a good target. However, to make it the only objective is to miss the point. That is why even after so many years of recording positive growth, people have not stopped grumbling on the ground. There is a missing link in our planning.

Mr Muyanda: A big lacuna.

Mr Sejani: Unless we pay attention to these things, you will go on an adventure of good in all these plans and projects and, in the end, you will lose the governance of this country.

Mrs Musokotwane: Yes, and we will make sure they lose.

Mr Sejani: If you do not pay attention to the minor details that we are talking about, …

Mr Muntanga: Mwavulilangomwa!

Mr Sejani: … you can bring all these good things that you sing about but, in the final analysis, you will still lose the Government. There is something amiss in the manner in which we are planning.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: I am asking simple questions because I am a simple person.

Mr Muntanga: Correct!

Mr Sejani: Therefore, I expect a simple answer from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when he comes to wind up debate.

Mrs Musokotwane: Simple Minister of Finance!

Mr Sejani: I doubt that this is a people’s Budget considering the things I have said and to call it as such is to ‘sloganeer’. It is just an empty meaningless slogan. For somebody to tell me that it is a people’s Budget, then I am going from here …

Mr Munkombwe: Do not be emotional!

Mr Sejani: I am not emotional. You have never seen a display of my emotions. When you see it, you will move out of this House.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: I am asking very simple questions …

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: … requiring simple responses from this Government.

I was with my mothers and sisters who are crushing stones in Kalingalinga and from here I want to go back there because they want me to show them the page, in the Budget Speech, where there is a mention of relief and how they can access it. Hon. Minister, when you come to wind up debate, tell me the page so that I read it to those stone crashers at Kalingalinga because they are waiting.

Interruptions

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, it is time we paid attention to minor details. A plan that exclusively makes economic growth the only target is destined for failure. There are other objectives which are important which you mentioned in your speech, but which do not show that they are related whatsoever or there is a problem. We need to include, among other objectives of the good plan, reduction in the inefficiency and bureaucracy of the Government.

Mr Speaker, a budget, which is conceived and implemented in an atmosphere which is pregnant with inefficiency, corruption and abuse of resources, undermines the social economic political order. Tomorrow, you will be wondering why you are losing elections when you are doing well. Why have you lost Chilanga when you are doing well?

Mr Muyanda: Answer?

Mr Sejani: The answer lies in these questions. If you do not answer these questions adequately to the satisfaction of the people, it is bye-bye. 

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Wait for next year.

Mr Sejani: Why are the people of Keembe annoyed with this Government? 

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: They are not annoyed.

Mr Sejani: Why do they not want to retain their hon. Member of Parliament?

Interruptions

Mr Sejani: It is because of the failure by the Government to pay attention to these small details.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to allege that the people of Keembe are annoyed with the Government when they have just been celebrating the tarring of the Landless Corner to Mumbwa Road? Is he in order to tell lies in this House?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The hon. Minister should withdraw the word ‘lies’.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘lies’, but is he in order to misinform the nation without carrying out a survey on the people of Keembe? 

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order is one that is telling the hon. Member debating that there are things happening now in Keembe that are contrary to what he is saying. At the same time, I take cognisance of the fact that the hon. Minister has explained to the public what is happening in his constituency. I will allow the hon. Member for Mapatizya to continue, but leave Keembe to the area hon. Member.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I am not normally generous to the Government, but I have gone out of my way to offer advice. However, if my advice is going to be thrown out, then good luck. I am not normally so kind as to give advice.

Mr V. Mwale: We do not need your advice because of your performance when you were in the Government.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, many people came from Keembe with messages to help us in Chilanga, but I will leave Keembe alone.

Mr Muyanda laughed.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, a plan whose sole objective is to look at the macro economic parameters alone without looking at the realities at the micro level will not succeed. This is my message to this Government.

Mr V. Mwale: We do not need your message.

Mr Sejani: Make sure that the proceeds of economic growth filter down to the people. Eleven years of growth is too long because, somewhere along the line, we should have had people benefiting. What is happening?

There is no benefit accruing to the people arising from this continuous economic growth. There is something wrong with the way we are planning. It is high time we changed the way we plan and implement our plans if we are going to succeed. It is not just a matter of throwing dollars or kwacha in any direction, but this must be accompanied by a very good plan which shows how sectors are related to each other and how they depend on one another. If that is not going to be done, then too bad. 

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, before I sit down, I will capture what my sister said in her speech that there are areas in this country which bore the brunt of civil liberation. There are areas of this country that have disproportionately suffered injustice because they have hosted freedom fighters. There have been border areas of instability. So, we must have a special heart for these people in our development planning. They sacrificed for the independence of this country and that of the entire sub-region. Surely, there is something that they can be given for them to feel that they are part of civilisation. Areas like the entire west of Zambezi in the North-Western Province up to Sesheke received disproportionate injustice because of the role they played in the liberation and because of their proximity to the areas of civil instability.

Mr Speaker, it will be unjust not to pay special attention to areas such as Kavaramanja, as everyone remembers the blood that was spilt there to liberate Southern Africa. The same applies to Gwembe Valley and other such areas. It is time we paid particular attention to compensatory development of those areas.

Mr Muyanda: There are still landmines there.

Mr Sejani: They have suffered underdevelopment. Therefore, it is high time we compensatory developed or planned for these areas in our development planning. Otherwise, God will not forgive us. We are enjoying this peace because of their sacrifices. Let us do something about these areas. We should die a little on their behalf because they died on our behalf and this should be done while we still have the capacity.

Mr Speaker, in the midst of economic boom, construction boom, and economic growth, governments lose elections because they fail to pay attention to minor details that matter to the people and I can say that they fail to understand this at their own peril.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, I wish to begin by recognising the debate of Hon. Chitika-Molobeka and wish to join her in congratulating the people of the Luapula Province on consistently voting for the MMD in the last five ward elections.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: They have recognised that this is the Government of the people. I also …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was congratulating the people of the Luapula Province on consistently choosing the MMD in the last five local government elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Siliya: Mr Speaker, I also wish to congratulate our team in Mpulungu for putting up a good campaign by getting us the seat back. My congratulations extend also to Kabumbwe and Kapoche in Petauke where we retained our wards in the local government elections. Once again, the people there have spoken, like the people in Chadiza did in the last elections, that the pact does not exist there.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, it is important that when we debate, we remember that Zambia is beyond Lusaka and the Copperbelt. In that sense, I wish to congratulate the UNPD on winning the elections in Chilanga.

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Mumbi ni UPND!

Ms Siliya: At the same time, I am reminding everyone that the MMD does not claim that it can win all the seats all the time, but what is important is that we come out on top as we will in 2011.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: I think that is the most important point.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I wish to associate myself with the words of Hon. Imbwae who spoke very passionately and truly raised the level of debate. Again, I think it truly demonstrated that the Opposition can be quite useful when it speaks facts. I think what Hon. Imbwae talked about is bringing the issue of One Zambia, One Nation to the fore and that the resources in this country are for all Zambians in all parts of this country not just Lusaka and the Copperbelt, but even the many Zambians in the rural areas.

Mr Speaker, in the last ten years of growth in this country, Zambia has changed. It will not be the same. With time, we will see progress. It is only those who choose not to see who are not going to see it. Zambians asked for schools, the Government is constructing schools; Zambians asked for clinics, the Government is constructing clinics; Zambians asked for increased enrolment of their children in school, it has been doubled; Zambians are asking for employment, everyday, the Government has continued to provide employment in education, construction, health sector, private sector. In addition, the Government itself and Zambians asked for the capacity to be enterprising, and we, as Government, have continued to support them by providing …

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Please, I want to listen to the hon. Minister’s debate. You can speak quietly if you want to consult

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, we have continued to provide an environment where those who are enterprising can find opportunities for business in this country. We have gone further to answer Hon. Sejani about the women he is going to address. We have provided for that under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) direct interventions to address the very challenges that those women in Kalingalinga are facing. What is important is that we must all provide leadership, communicate and give information to the people so that they know how to go about these issues. 

Mr Speaker, recently, I read in the paper where somebody said the President is behaving like a project manager. If there were no projects, he would not be behaving like a project manager. It is because this Government is, indeed, delivering that he is behaving as a true leader and as a project manager. Those who say the Government is doing nothing are saying that there would be no project to monitor and it is because the people are asking for these projects that we want to ensure they are being monitored.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, for those of us who spent a little time in class, I am sure we know about the Maslow’s Theory of Needs.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Ms Siliya: The Maslow’s Theory of Needs says that we have to begin with the basic needs. It is true that when we build schools, we must provide desks. It is true that when we build clinics, we must provide staff and medicines. It is true that as the economy is growing, we have to respond to the people and ensure that they truly feel relief in their pockets, but we have to begin somewhere. We will not be able to talk about desks if there is no classroom. This might not be a perfect Maslow’s Theory or Law, but we have decided to begin with classroom infrastructure. I have said, many times, on the Floor of this House, that we are on target in terms of meeting the shortfall of school desks in this country.

Mr Kambwili: Question!    

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the people know that the Government is doing the right thing. The people out there know that we, in the Government, are not magicians and that we cannot provide everything overnight. They also know that we have a plan and that if we follow it, things will happen. Even if the PF was going to be in Government tomorrow, it does not mean all Zambians will have shoes the next day. It is not possible. What the people want is to believe is that this leadership cares about them and that it is going to provide. 

Mr Speaker, with this Budget, we are trying to meet these needs. We are providing, in the budget, continued support for infrastructure as the most basic need because everything else that we are going to do in terms of social and economic transformation needs us to be able to build our infrastructure.

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Siliya: We have continued to make sure that we support the FISP. It does not make sense for people to say that there is no progress, and yet, as a direct result of the decision to reduce the pack, the Government did two things. Firstly, it increased the number of farmers that it was going to support from 250,000 to 500,000. To me, that is moving forward unless there is something wrong with your calculations.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Secondly, the results have been seen and this is the bumper harvest from 1.5 million to 2.7 million tonnes. We, as a Government, do concede that, maybe, we have not managed the marketing properly. 

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: Yes, we do concede that.

Mr Speaker, what is important is that the Opposition always wants to be the noise makers.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Members, please, do not force me to mention your names. I think there must be dignity and decorum in the House. I will not accept this exchange of words with the person speaking. I hope it is the last time I am giving this warning.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the English say, if you put five people in a room; four of them with sense and one noise maker, it is a noise maker who will be heard. 

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: As a Government, we realise that we have to do a lot to continue to communicate with the people and tell them what we are doing. This is why I can assure Hon. Sejani that we have no intention of losing any power at all. The people’s budget by a people’s Government is responding directly to the needs of the people. The Government is going to make sure that it goes out there and explains to them that the CDF is not coming from Opposition Members of Parliament, but from the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: That this budget is by the people’s Government. At this point, it is this Government that has been given that responsibility. I know that many of us can continue to think wishfully that, one day, we might manage the nation, but I do not think that it is very feasible in the near future because the people are happy with what we are doing. 

Mr Speaker, if they were not happy, we would not get Luapula back from the PF. If the people were not happy, there would not be a situation where there is no pact in many provinces, including the Eastern Province, and the pact would not just be in Lusaka. The people are happy that we have responded to the Bottom Road, Zimba/Livingstone Road, Namwala Road, Kalabo/Mongu Road and we have built schools in Kazungula. They would not be supporting those projects if they were not happy. It is clear that they are very happy with what we are doing.

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to cite a strategic road such as the Bottom road, on which this Government has not even lifted a finger to have constructed and imply to the nation that the road is in good condition? As a hon. Cabinet Minister, is she in order to mislead the nation? 

I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order by the hon. Member for Sinazongwe gives the hon. Minister of Education an opportunity to elaborate on that issue and clear his concerns.

She may continue.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the Chinese say a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. We have taken the first step as far as the Bottom Road is concerned because it has been included in the Budget. Once the Budget is approved, it should be worked on. This is why I am sure that my colleagues in the UPND will support that aspect of the Budget because they want this road constructed like everybody else in Zambia. We know the people in Sinazongwe and Gwembe are Zambians like everybody else and deserve good road infrastructure.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I know that, in the last few weeks, people have been debating the Budget Motion. A lot of people have not been able to come out with facts because the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning clearly articulated what the Government  has done and what it intends to do. It is because of this that a lot of people have just been singing about this Government doing nothing.  However, they still come on the Floor of the House and say that the Government has constructed the Kalabo Road, but it was too expensive. If the Government has done nothing, how come this road has been constructed and schools and twenty-three district hospitals are currently being built? If the Government has done nothing, how come it has so many roads being worked on as well as the many water and sanitation projects in the country?

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: The Government agrees that it has not done everything and, therefore, does not want to tell the nation lies that it has done everything. Like I said, the people of Zambia cannot believe in people who give them wishful dreams that, one day, they will do everything overnight or in the infamous ninety days. We, as Government, want to tell the people the truth that we will do things on time and according to plan. We will work according to the five year national development plans as well as the Vision 2030, in the long term.

I agree with Hon. Sejani that it is true we have to pay attention to the details of implementation and one of the ways we have responded is through the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF). We want to ensure that we do not forget who the targeted citizens of this fund are. The people who should get money under this fund are not those who have, but people like the women who really need support that the hon. Member talked about That is a minor detail that we are addressing. 

I am sure that many hon. Members on this side spend a lot of time and effort thinking about how we can really empower the Zambian private sector. We want our local business sector to favourably compete with foreign businesses such as those of South Africa, China and America among others. Those are issues that we have to address because that is what the people want. Those of us on this side do not intend to lose power because of ignoring minor details. We intend to address these very important issues for the people of Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, since I have just turned forty years old, I am very interested in the issues to do with the young people of this country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms Siliya: The Government has, therefore, taken measures to empower youths. It is going to make sure that it continues engaging the young people of this country. I may take this opportunity to announce that I already have 3,000 young people I am talking to on Facebook, everyday, and I hear their issues. They want empowerment, education and jobs. It is our responsibility to continue to explain these things to them. 

What I have realised is that Zambians out there are intelligent people. They know that nobody can sort out all their problems in ninety days. They know that they do not want lies. What they want is somebody to tell them a plan that when we build a school, we are going to employ teachers and then buy desks and other school materials.  That is the order in which we are going to do things. The Government is not going to tell them that when they wake up tomorrow, they will find schools, teachers, desks and everything else in place. 

Mr Speaker, since the 1970s, no proper school has been built in this country. This is why Zambians, especially in rural areas, have seen that this Government is taking money to them literally by building clinics, hospitals, roads and are, therefore, very happy.

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, it does not matter how much those on your left try to distract me. The people of Zambia are listening and are happy with this Budget. It is truly a people’s Budget. What we expect is that when we begin debates on ministerial allocations, the Opposition will support us because they have totally failed to discredit the Budget.

Mr Speaker, when it comes to the issue of revenue from the mines, we, on this side, have argued our case very well. We do realise that the mines are a huge revenue earner for this nation and that in providing variable tax, we can fluctuate revenue streams depending on how well the mines are doing. We do not want to be …

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: I think you should question your president who agrees with us.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila interjected.

Ms Siliya: I believe that it is very important …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The hon. Member for Chipili should, please, not do that again.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Kambwili: Do not bring Mr Sata in your debate (pointing at Ms Siliya).

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, even Opposition leaders have written to this Government to say they do not agree with the reintroduction of windfall tax and that is on record. We should discuss facts here and not be emotional about these matters. We believe that when the Opposition has something good to tell us on issues such as windfall tax, as we were advised by president Sata, we agree with them.

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, in terms of supporting the vulnerable, under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has ensured that in the Budget there is …

Dr Katema: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Ms Siliya: … outstanding support to ensure that those who are most vulnerable, especially in rural areas, are cared for.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: When did Mr Sata advise you? Do not mislead the nation.

Ms Siliya: Did you not read the letter? Do you not know how to read?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on a point of order. Is the hon. Minister debating now in order to drag people who are outside this House and cannot defend themselves into her debate? Is she in order to talk about the PF president, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata? 

The Deputy Chairperson: That point of order is intended to remind the hon. Minister of Education to leave out those who are not in the House. I will, however, say that, in my understanding, she mentioned the Opposition leader in a positive sense because she said she was agreeing with him.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: I do not think that remark was intended to disparage anyone. I also want to say this …

Mr Kambwili interjected. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Kambwili, get out of here.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili left the Chamber.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, let me take this time to, again, ask that we listen to the person debating. I am sure we all know that what we are doing is work for the people who have elected us. They expect a lot from us. We cannot, while we are pitying them in their poverty, act as though we do not care. We cannot speak as if things that we are saying do not make sense. We are either serious with the concerns we have for those that we represent or not. I expect that the matters we are handling are so serious for the people of this country that we will give our discussions and debates the seriousness that is expected of us as hon. Members.

It is unacceptable to make running commentaries when one of you is speaking. When we do that, firstly, the people that intend to listen to the debate get disturbed. Secondly, we do not hear what others are saying. Even if our view is contrary to the one being expressed by the hon. Member on the Floor, we must bear in mind that the right to speak here is guarantied and people will, sometimes, say things we may not like, but they have a right to say them and will be protected. 

So, hon. Members must listen to the person speaking so that when your turn comes, you are also accorded the same respect, silence and audience. Otherwise, we are not showing the seriousness which is befitting of the House to which we have come.

The hon. Minister of Education may continue.

Ms Siliya: Thank you, Sir. I believe that the Zambian people, everyday, begin to realise that they should not take chances with the leadership not even at parliamentary level because what we come to do here, as articulated by Hon. Imbwae, is serious business. We look at how best we can improve the lives of the people of Zambia. This Government, using a people’s budget from a people’s Government, wants to continue ensuring that the young people of Zambia have an opportunity to do business. At this point in time, there are more young people in business than at any other time in the history of this country. We want to make sure that there are more young people in schools, who own houses and who can walk into a bank and borrow. This is why we continue to ask for investment in the banking sector. 

Mr Speaker, we also agree that the interest rates might still be high, but let us look at where we have come from. In 2000, the interest rates were about 60 to 70 per cent. Today, the interest rates are around 20 per cent and less. I get surprised to hear people say that they cannot see that there is progress. They have also continued to say nothing has happened in the last ten years. I think if one says this, then he or she needs a new pair of glasses.

Mr Speaker, this budget, in terms of the Ministry of Education, wants to ensure that it continues to address issues of not just those children who are able-bodied, but even those who are physically impaired. The Government also wants to make sure that the curriculum prepares graduates from universities and colleges for the world of work. That is why it continues to call for investment in the private sector so that when the young people when leave universities and colleges they can have jobs as well as internships so that they can be able to see where their future takes them because they can see the private is sector growing. They too can dream and aspire to make money. 

Mr Speaker, unless we create wealth, there is going to be nothing to share. We will continue to talk about poverty and enjoy it. We shall almost feel ecstatic when we say that we are poor and poverty-stricken. However, I have hope in the young people I talk to because there are opportunities in this country. These young people have started returning from South Africa, United States of America and England. They feel that this country can provide them an opportunity to excel in their lives. They feel that this Government can support them. Our challenge is to continue to be consistent in our development plans and to respond quickly and timely to some of the minor details which were discussed by Hon. Sejani. We are aware of what the young people want. 

Mr Speaker, in terms of the fight against corruption, I believe that it is time that we looked at corruption in reality and not even refer to pure theft as corruption as this approach we focus on is one sided. Fighting corruption is a good thing, but we must also encourage wealth creation on the other hand. Otherwise our young people will be wondering what we were doing in future. They will ask what those in leadership such as hon. Members of Parliament or Government were doing if we do not ensure that they too gain wealth from the economic boom that we have. This is why the CEEC and other youth empowerment programmes have been set up. The Government will continue to make sure that the banks continue to respond to the needs of the general public. Our procurement processes will continue to be reviewed so that Zambians benefit from them whether through the Government or other agencies.

Mr Speaker, I really believe that it is time that the Opposition changed its attitude and truly behaved honourably. It should say this is a good budget, that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning presented a fantastic statement, that the people of Zambia are happy with this Budget and that it will continue to work very hard to ensure that we intervene where it is not being expended or implemented as it should be. 

Mr Speaker, what is important is that Zambia will never be the same again. It has changed. What Zambia was ten years ago, is not what it is today. The MMD intends to take it to a better ten years in the future. That is why the Zambians will not experiment with leadership because they know that other people do not have plans. All they have is a lot of talk. People should also bear in mind that by their winning one election does not mean that this Government has lost popularity.

Mr Mwenya: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. I hope the point of order being raised is procedural.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, it is procedural. Is the hon. Minister of Education, who is debating so well, in order to remain silent over the issues of teachers in schools, especially Ndola Girls Technical School where they have been withdrawn and contracted on census? Is she in order to remain silent and not inform the nation what the Government intends to do to cover up for the period lost by the pupils, especially those in boarding schools? Parents have spent so much money and expect their children to learn. Is she in order not to inform the nation on how the Government is going to make sure that the children are covered for the loss of time? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order raised by the hon. Member for Nkana is, I think, a request to the hon. Minister to say something about the issue of the census as well as the children being in school. So, I expect the hon. Minister to answer that point of order as she continues debating.

The hon. Minister of Education may continue.

Ms Siliya: Thank you, Sir. The census is a planned activity by the Government. It is not happening by chance. We know that some of the enumerators include our teachers. Through administrative means, we have been able to work out how many teachers should participate to ensure that we do not disturb the equilibrium in schools. With regard to those in non-examination classes that might have been forced to go back home, they will be ways to make sure that they recap what they will miss out during this period of time. What is important is that it is an important and planned national activity. 

Mr Speaker, somebody talked about issues of rural hardship allowance. Rural hardship allowance is negotiated by the Zambia National Union of Teachers (ZNUT) with the Government. The House may wish to know that the Government successfully concluded negotiations regarding that allowance in April, this year. I know that there are some areas in the country where teachers left out or the demarcation was not done properly, but those are being administratively addressed. Therefore, I urge and beg the Opposition to stop using that issue to agitate the teachers. I have met and explained to hundreds of teachers regarding such issues. I am always amazed at how well they understand how the Government operates. I believe that we should stop to agitate them regarding the rural hardship allowance as they are aware of all the issues surrounding it. 

Mr Speaker, lastly, this truly is a people’s Budget, from a people’s Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu coughs.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): I am sorry, Mr Speaker, I have a cough.

Sir, I thank you for giving me the time to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor.

Hon. Member: Ebaume abo! 

Mr Ntundu: First and foremost, I would like to congratulate my party, the UPND for walloping the MMD in Chilanga.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: You have been walloped and we are growing. We are grabbing seats and we shall grab another one. In fact, we shall get back Itezhi-tezhi and Namwala is already ours. It is also coming.

Laughter

 Mr Ntundu: I also want to congratulate our colleagues in the PF …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: … for improving.

Hon. Opposition Member: Tremendously!

Mr Ntundu: They have improved tremendously. It is actually more than I expected.

Mr D. Mwila: Ebaume aba!

Mr Ntundu: Sir, I want to begin by responding to some comments that have been passed by the hon. Ministers in their responses to our concerns.

Hon. Member: Shadow Minister.

Mr Ntundu: Firstly, Hon. Cifire mentioned my name when she said Ngomwa  nikuivulila.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: I wonder why she mentioned my name. I do not know whether she implied that I am a Ngomwa. Ukanivulile ukaone.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Sir, from this side of the House, we are not in Parliament to bring down the MMD or the Government. The hon. Members on your right should listen carefully. There is not a single hon. Member of Parliament from the left side of the House who has said that the Government is not doing anything. No one has said that. We know that the Government is not doing absolutely nothing. Please, get us right.

What we are saying is that this Budget is not like one which has come from heaven with no defects. Unless you say that it was prepared in heaven, it should have some defects. Even a car on the road can move with defects. However, the owner should acknowledge that his or her car has defects although it is moving. Therefore, we are saying that there are a lot of defects in this Budget.

Mr Muntanga: Major defects.

Hon. Opposition Member: Ebaume aba!

Mr Ntundu: There are a number of defects. We want the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to tell us why the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) is not collecting to target. What has happened? The Government must understand the reason it is not collecting enough money. These are the things that must be explained.

 If you always talk about how the hon. Minister and President Banda are doing so well and how they are like Jesus and never do wrong, then you are misleading your President and your hon. Minister. You must make corrections where you think your hon. Minister has not done well. You must advise. Speak out. 

It does not help this House to always praise the hon. Minister. I know the hon. Minister is busy because he is thinking of the constituency where he is going to contest in 2011.

Hon. Member: He has already found one.

Mr Ntundu: Hon. Minister, as you wind up debate on this Motion, can you tell us the reason we do not have enough money, especially now that we have a Budget of K20 trillion on our hands. Where is the money? Are you sure we have K20 trillion? 

Sir, one hon. Minister spoke as if he was in a dream.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: A person who is dreaming will only realise that he was dreaming when he wakes up. Where will the K20 trillion come from? 

Listen carefully hon. Minister, at some point, I told the hon. Minister that we should look at other areas that we must tax. 

In the last Budget, the Road Tax was increased by 50 per cent because that is where you thought the money would come from. It is not only a motorist who can give you money, hon. Minister.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 Can you speak through the Chair.

Mr Ntundu: Yes Sir.

 Mr Speaker, I was a regular importer of cars. Duty on cars is more than 100 per cent and many Zambians have now stopped importing cars. Livingstone Border used to get 200 cars on a daily basis when the duty was reasonable. However, go and see how many cars you can get at Chirundu. Please, give the motorist a break. He is paying too much.

If you want to get money, do not allow Shoprite to import tomatoes. The South African Government is able to raise revenue because if you import something that is produced there, the duty will be more than 100 per cent.

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Bebe mudala.

Mr Ntundu: What duty do you slap on Shoprite for importing tomatoes which someone can produce locally? Go to City Market and see the tomatoes that we are able to produce.

Hon. Member: Quality baba.

Mr Ntundu: Tomatoes that go for peanuts.

Hon. Member: They just rot.

Mr Ntundu: They rot because you allow other people to import tomatoes which we locally produce. If you want to raise money, put more than 100 per cent duty on commodities that we can produce. This Budget is not protecting the local market. 

Mr Speaker, we know that the Government will not do everything in a day, but it has a lot to do. We also realise, from this side of the House, that the Government has a lot of things to do. I am aware, at the moment, that the Government is carrying out a lot of activities that require money such as the on-going registration of voters and the census. 

Hon. Opposition Member: By-elections.

Mr Ntundu: By-elections require money.

Hon. Opposition Member: And buying voters.

Mr Ntundu: Yes, buying voters also requires money.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: My piece of advice is that the money which is wasted during by-elections and only to be given to hooligans and thugs is the money which the Government is supposed to utilise in the Budget. We are not supposed to waste this money. 

Sir, I am a very disappointed hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: The behaviour of our colleagues on your right side is not that of people who are in the Government. It is far from it.

 The other hon. Minister who debated said that the Government had sent tarpaulins to cover maize in all districts and that hon. Members of Parliament should ensure that the maize is covered. What sort of thinking is that from an hon. Minister?

What we need to do, as Zambians and hon. Members of Parliament, from both sides of the House, is to look at where the money to satisfy the Budget will come from. I want to give a free service. I do not charge. 

Hon. Shikapwasha shook his head.

Mr Ntundu: The problem is that when someone tells you something, you do not listen. You always oppose and shake your heads. The only reason you are failing, as a Government, is because you do not listen. I assure you, hon. Minister, in particular, that you will not come back to this House.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: I was impressed with last year’s Budget because the hon. Minister somehow came out on a few areas where we needed to raise money. That was good and he should continue with that. However, this year’s Budget does not show the source of the money. It is a campaign Budget.

Sir, I have seen the Bottom Road on paper, but I want to see what will be done on it next year being an election year.

Hon. Government Member: Vote for us.

Mr Ntundu: In fact, one time, when I was talking to you, hon. Minister, you will recall that I told you that if all hon. Members of the Opposition joined the MMD, I would be the only one remaining in the Opposition because I have not seen anything to join the MMD for. What is there for me? There is nothing.

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: I know that the MMD is heading for doom.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: If you want people to come to your side, get the weak soldiers. Some of the weak soldiers are sitting on this side of the House.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Get them!

I know that it will be easy for you to use them, but you cannot manage to use me.

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Yes! 

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Now …

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Nakumvela ee ukamba. Even that day when the President was addressing  …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Continue with your debate.

Mr Ntundu: Sir, I have heard what the hon. Minister has said.

The Deputy Chairperson: Do not listen to hecklers!

Mr Ntundu: Sir, I have heard what the hon. Minister has said. I recall one time when the President was addressing a conference, he said, “Kakolwe kani tundila”, but the hon. Minister said no, “Sikanamutundileni, mwami.”

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: What does that mean?

Mr Ntundu: It means, “A monkey has urinated on me,” but the hon. Minister says,  “No, Sir, it has not.” 

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: That is the kind of attitude those hon. Ministers have.

Hon. Minister, let us sit down together and see which areas must be taxed. Do you want me to give you clues of how you can get more money? I have heard that you are trying to reduce the Pay as You Earn (PAYE). A lot of Zambians are not paying PAYE. A lot of Zambian employers evade tax because it is too high. The Government is not collecting enough money because employers are evading taxes because they are too high. Sir, at one time, in this House, I said I was a consultant for the South African Government on taxes. If you recall, at one time, the Value Added Tax (VAT) in South Africa was as high as 16 per cent. 

Hon. Government Members Shook their heads.

Mr Ntundu: You are shaking your heads because you are not listening. You do not understand and you do not study what is happening in other countries. 

Sir, in South Africa, VAT was about 16 per cent. The Government realised that it was too high and had to reduce it to 11 per cent. I have a record which I will lay on the Table of this House to show the revenue that was collected by the South African Government in 2006 when VAT was reduced to 11 per cent.

Sir, from this side of the House, we are saying that we will put more money in people’s pockets. It is a reality because we are going to reduce PAYE. That will be money in people’s pockets.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: When we reduce PAYE, we will replace it with taxes from the mines. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: Most of you argue that it is not be possible. It is not possible because your thinking has ‘ended’.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: If you tell an old lady in the village that people have been to the moon, she will not agree because she does not have the knowledge and does not understand that people can go to the moon. Sir, when we tell these people on your right that we are able to reduce taxes and give Zambians free education and health facilities, they say it is not possible. It is because they do not have the knowledge. They are like that woman I made reference to.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: We shall do it. 

I am aware that hon. Ministers are given cellular phones. We shall not give cellular phones to hon. Ministers. Why should we, if I may ask? I can manage to buy myself a cellular phone. I bought myself the most expensive cellular phone, and yet I am not an hon.  Minister.

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Hon. Ministers will not be given money for talk time. They will not see it. As a result, we shall save money. 

Mr Speaker, a few days ago, I listened to the hon. Minister of Finance from the United Kingdom (UK) deliver a Budget Speech that stated that 490,000 jobs from the Public Service were going to be cut. Do you know what happens in the UK when people are laid off? In the UK Government, when Public Service workers are laid off, they become happy because they know they will get a good package. The first package that they are given is a package for stopping them from working. This is before they look at what they are worth unlike what our Government did to the Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) workers. When you stop someone from working, the first thing you do is to give them a package for doing that to them. Do you know how much money people who were retrenched in the UK received? It is more than 1 million pounds. I am telling you. 

Hon. Government Members Shook their heads.

Mr Ntundu: You are shaking your heads because you do not have the facts.

Hon. Government Members: Give us facts!

Mr Ntundu: You are like that woman.

Laughter

Mr Ntunudu: That is a reality. 

Sir, some time this year, I had an opportunity to go to the UK.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Laughter

 Mr Ntundu: One day, I was present when Parliament was in session and the Prime Minister was being asked questions in the House. A good number of those questions were coming from his own hon. Ministers. These were questions on what the Prime Minister had not done. I wonder if any of these hon. Minister can have the courage to do that.

Mr Muntanga: It is taboo!

Mr Ntundu: All they can say is, “Siikanakutundile, mwami.” Please, wake up because time for sleeping is gone.

Hon. Opposition Members: It is only Mpombo!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Just sit down. I still have more than one minute to debate.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Sir, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament, who is debating so badly, in order not to inform the nation why his leader has grabbed land from the poor people of Maala in Namwala District and not told them why he has done that when he is talking about land in this august House?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member, continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Long live the Chair!

Mr Ntundu: Yes, we shall come to Keembe and I will be the campaign manager there.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, lastly, I would like to make a correction. The money that the Public Service workers get when they are retrenched in the UK is actually 100,000 pounds and not 1 million pounds. 

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, it is a lot of money and it is just for making them stop work. What they are worth here is something else. I want to say that ZAMTEL …

Ms Siliya: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member debating so badly in order to mislead the nation by trying to compare the British economy to the Zambian one?

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, those who, I believe, are true economists, as he claims, would know that you cannot compare apples with oranges. If you get 100,000 pounds in the UK, the cost of housing or employing a servant here is nothing compared to the UK. So, what a 100,000 pounds is in Zambia is not what it is in the UK. 

So, is he in order to totally mislead the public that he is actually a consultant by saying that, in South Africa, taxes were reduced from 16 per cent to 11 per cent, and yet the economies of South Africa and Zambia are different? Even after I demonstrated clearly that we have been able to reduce interest rates from 70 per cent ten years ago to 20 per cent and even lower at the moment, is he in order to say that, Sir?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister of Education has adequately debated the point of order. 

May the hon. Member continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I wish I witnessed the transaction of the sale of ZAMTEL at Rhapsody’s. I would have recorded and even laid the tape on the Table of this House. 

My last advice…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time has elapsed.

Interruptions

Ms Mwape (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the voices of the many debaters to the debate on this Budget Speech themed, “A People’s Budget, from a People’s Government.” 

May I start by congratulating the hon. Members of Parliament and their respective parties that have made it in this particular by-election. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, before I proceed, I wish to state, from the beginning, that education does not start when we grow old and we are hon. Members of Parliament. It starts at a very elementary stage. I recall when I was much younger, I used to love reading and I have maintained the trend. I would read a book on a fairy-tale then, but I have come to learn that it is beyond a fairy-tale. It may be a folk tale, but it is a world of wisdom.

Mr Speaker, a story is told of a king who had just assumed power with a great desire and quest to be surrounded by wise counsel and leadership. He requested that tests for wisdom be gathered from all around his kingdom and only those who passed the test should lead with him. One of the submissions came from a tailor who said he could tailor invisible clothes that could only be seen by nobody, but the wise. It pleased the king and he immediately made an order of those clothes. He was to wear the clothes during his coronation. Part of the process was that, after the crown was put on his head, he would tour the kingdom and it was so. 

Mr Speaker, when that particular day came, the king ...

Interruptions

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, I am competing with other voices. Please, may I be protected?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, on the eventful day, the king put on his underclothes. Before that particular day came, this tailor used to go to him with rolls of fabric and showed him how beautiful this fabric was and asking him to select one. He even took measurements of him. Alas, every other time this happened, only the tailor could see the clothes and the king could not see them. Unfortunately, because the king was looking for wisdom, there was no way he could have admitted that he, too, was not seeing these fabrics nor was he able to fit, but he pretended to. His many councellors and ministers in his Government could not tell him frankly. When he asked them, “What do you think about the fabric?” they said, “The fabric is wonderful, the scarlet was nice and the purple was excellent.” He said, “How is it fitting?” They said, “It is wonderful, your honour.” All the time, they were not seeing anything because there is no such a thing as an invisible cloth that can only be seen by the wise. 

Mr Speaker, on that fateful day, the king went out with the crown on his head and his underclothes to tour the kingdom. Unfortunately, he was bare naked and there was nobody to tell him because they feared for their lives, jobs and benefits. They let the king display himself in his bare underclothes.

During the tour, he approached a corner of the kingdom where there was a wise old woman and very poor for that matter. This wise old woman went before the king and said she would take a chance. She was very poor and the only extra cloth she had was a tattered apron and very filthy for that matter, but she was prepared to lay her head on the chopping board. She went before the king and said, “Long live king. The clothes you are wearing are excellent. The scarlet and the purple is excellent, but I have a matching apron that would look very well with the attire you are wearing.” She pulled off her own dirty tattered apron and said, “Long live the king. You may try this on for it will match perfectly well with your scarlet and purple.” That was the only clothing the king could put on. At that point, the king did realise that he had been cheated all this time and nobody could do what that old woman did. 

Mr Speaker, the whole story and interpretation, therefore, can be given by yourselves. This evening, I will not fail to speak and let my throat be gagged by just talking. I really would love attention and, therefore, I will take it easy. What I want to do this evening is emulate that poor old woman. This is what I have to say to the hon. Members of Parliament on your right. 

Mr Speaker, I am horrified by some of the debates that come from that side of the House in the name of defending the Government. Is it the Government’s position you are defending or are you just having some form of self-preservation? They sing the anthem of accolade whose first and last stanzas carry the name of His Excellency the President. What is their motive to defend the Government? Whose position are they really defending? Is it not that they do not want to tell, like Hon. Ntundu has just said, “Sikana mi tundile mwami?” Is it not self-preservation and wanting to be nominated or adopted in the next election? Do you really care about the people of Zambia? Are you sure you are administering your ministries with a passion and a heart for the people of this nation? What is your motive? Is it self-preservation and subsequent benefits?

Mr Speaker, those clothes are not invisible. They do not exist. Why do I say so? After listening and studying the Presidential Speech for the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly on the 17th September, 2010, I resigned myself not to debate because I wanted to come and listen to the hon. Minister’s Budget Speech lest I judged or wrongly criticised an innocent man’s speech. I reserved my opinion because I knew the Presidential Speech was just a policy guide while the Budget Speech provides allocation of resources to implement these policies. When I listened to the Budget Speech, I put the two together and this is what I have to say. 

The President is head of the whole country. He is in order to use aggregate figures when he is talking about the development of this country. What leaves much to be desired, however, is the distribution of these development activities. 

There is a 1 by 3 classroom block in Mufulira Constituency. My neighbour, Hon. Chimbaka for Bahati Constituency, debated that he has thirteen schools in his constituency. One of the hon. Ministers said that the reason for this is because we are not lobbying. Hell no, Mr Speaker. Are we saying that development will only go to the people that patronise …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The word ‘hell’ should be withdrawn.

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘hell’, and I say ‘oh no, Sir, this should not be the case.

Mr Speaker, development is going to people that patronise Plot 1 and to those who stand up in this House and give accolades. Do not think that we are not aware of that. 

I know that needs assessments are done and I am also aware of the fact that the cake is not enough to go round. The mode of preference for delivering development, however, is what leaves a lot to be desired. What the Government would like us to believe is that money is placed where benefits are realised more. The Sabina/Mufulira Road is used by the mines. Compare its usefulness and the benefit to the country to the Isoka/Muyombe Road. 

Mr Speaker, because the cake is not enough, the people of Mufulira chose to do a constituency situation analysis based on various the MDGs with the support of the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF). This Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, and the then hon. Minister could not support it because the constituency belonged to an hon. Member of the Opposition.  

Are you sure that you care about the people of Mufulira? Is your passion for Zambia or self-preservation? 

I have something to say about the attitude of our hon. Ministers who have been vested with the responsibility to look after the affairs of the people by the appointing authority, including or excluding the prefix of His Excellency or President Rupiah Banda, when talking about various developmental issues, does not denote respect and recognition to His Excellency the President. You need an objective and systematic approach in the interest of the nation at large. Development that is skewed towards self-preservation of individuals or a political party in power is a recipe for doomsday. 

The present and future of our nation is in the hands of you, as people that have been vested with power at present, whether you like it or not. We admit that you are in power but, please, do what is correct in the interest of this nation. If you choose otherwise, you should know that posterity is no respecter of persons. 

On the Floor of this House, an hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, in 2007, stood up and said, “We took development to the people who voted for the MMD.” Two weeks ago, Sir, the same person was saying that, “If you are trying to fix me, you are fixing yourselves. If there is no road in Chongwe, there will be no vote.” Hello? Did I hear that right? Posterity will take care of you.  

Another hon. Deputy Minister from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning stood up and said, “You people will never come into power.” A week ago, he voted with the Opposition. There was a very powerful hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the next thing we knew, the music had taken him to the Back Bench and now he is no longer in the House. You are not an exception. Yours may be even worse than that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape: The Easterners say “Kavuluvulu, chaona muzako chapita, mumaba chili pali iwe.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape: This simply means be careful what you do today. It might seem odd for your friend, but it will pass and, next time, it will be happening to you. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape: The effect of your ecclesiastical office, Mr Speaker, takes effect in this House, everyday, when you pray for us to submit to the fact that there must be some deity. From the time I came to Parliament, a prayer is said everyday. Whether you believe in God or not, or, maybe, the God I believe in is not the God you believe in, you submit to some form of deity every time you listen to that prayer. That deity will definitely judge you because he gives you the wisdom that Mr Speaker asks for everyday. 

Mr Speaker, we have been told that the Mongu/Kalabo Road will be worked on to the tune of K1.3 trillion and is number one on the list.  A few weeks ago, the hon. Member for Namwala said, “Utalumbi mubwa.” Another hon. Member said, “Utalumbi mu mongrel.” The latest one, from Livingstone, said, “Utalumbi mu Chihuahua.”

Mr Speaker, where will such people classify my children? I am declaring interest because I was married to a Lozi man for twenty years with whom I have six children. Therefore, I have an interest vested in the Western Province.  Where will you classify my children’s uncles, brothers and sisters, aunties, grandmothers and grandfathers? Are they mongrels, Chihuahuas or mubwas because they have failed to thank you in spite of that K1.3 trillion you have set aside for a road in their area? 

They have refused to celebrate this year’s Independence with you. Can you not ask yourselves where such mentality will take us? Kalabo Road and many other infrastructure developments will not change anything. Do you think that the people of this nation are blind? They can see right through the spirit of your self-preservation. I am offering you a dirty tattered apron. You can take it or leave it.

Mr Speaker, my debate would be incomplete without giving you a view of the people of Mufulira. I have four letters written to four ministries requesting them to do various things for the people of Mufulira, which I will lay on the Table. We have not received as little as an acknowledgement from any of these hon. Ministers in spite of the repeated follow-ups we have made regarding certain issues. I will ask you, again, are you doing things for Zambia or for self-preservation? Can we believe that this is a people’s budget from a people’s Government or a budget meant to prolong the MMD’s stay in power? What do you think of the people of Mufulira Constituency? Your guess is as good as mine. What will happen in 2011 is that they will not vote for you. 

Mr Speaker, before I talk about 2011, I want to say that the four letters that I wrote were carbon copied to His Excellency the President. Do they really respect the President if they cannot acknowledge letters that are written to him? Those letters were written in October, 2008. In December, 2009, I took advantage of the window that was opened by the late Dr Mwanawasa to avail every hon. Member of Parliament an opportunity to see the President through Mr Speaker’s Office. 

Mufulira Constituency requested an audience with the President through their hon. Member of Parliament to discuss constituency development. To-date, not even an acknowledgement or opportunity has come up. The President is too busy for Mufulira Constituency.  On Page 37 of his speech, the President said we must judge things for ourselves. Eight months from now in 2011, what do you think will happen? You might think that the people of Mufulira are irrelevant now, but you will see their relevance in future. In 2008, you only survived by 33,000 votes. 

The people of Mufulira may be the last straw that will break the camel’s back. They may just be watching me to tilt that pendulum and if you are not careful, other people may tilt it in their favour.  Do not say that I did not warn you. This is my dirty tattered apron that I am wearing before you. I will not tell you that you are putting on invisible clothes when you are wearing none. 

Laughter 

Ms Mwape: Mr Speaker, I will also lay this letter on the Table.  

Unless something is done, you do not have a share of votes in Mufulira. Even if you asked me to rebel against them, it would still take a lot from you to convince them. The election results of Chifubu, Luena, Mufumbwe, Solwezi Central, Kasama Central and Chilanga are speaking for themselves.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape: Please, pay attention. 

Mr Speaker, I do not have a problem with hon. Members of Parliament paying allegiance to their political parties. It is a good thing because it is these political parties that sponsored them to this House. I, however, have a problem when people’s allegiance erodes their conscience. 

Mr Speaker, we need that windfall tax. We need a budget that is supported with disbursements. We are not going to disburse anything if we do not collect anything. Please, do pay attention because, come 2011, you will remember me. 

As an hon. Member of Parliament standing here, I am quite content with my status in society because my life did not start with Parliament and it will not end with Parliament. I want you to know that when my five-year term is over, I will walk with my head high knowing that I did my best. I have debated eloquently in this House. I have lobbied hon. Ministers, some of whom I have not mentioned. I have talked to hon. Ministers and lobbied as far as State House. You have not given us an audience. 

I want to tell you that I have absolutely nothing to lose. If some of you are worried about serving one term, I am not. By the end of serving my term, I would have done a good job. It is the mileage that counts. A car may be one year, five years, forty years or forty-three years, but the mileage that it would have covered is what counts.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape: Therefore, I will tell you that five years is good enough than cheat myself to be wearing clothes that are invisible when, in fact, I am walking bear naked and I have to depend on a tattered apron from an old woman. Take it or leave it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Ms Mwape: I will not have a problem with serving a five-year term if I can walk with my head high than believe in a system that is so skewed, has no faith and confidence in the Opposition even when they are offering the best of advice. A system that does not care about the people, but puts up all this infrastructure and still does not see with its own eyes when the people are failing to vote for it. In the process, it is losing constituencies. 

Sir, I want to tell you that it is not about Hon. Marjorie Mwape when you talk about Mufulira Constituency. It is about every vote that counts that you so much need. It is that vote that anybody else could take advantage of. If I went out, today, and did or not come back, it does not. I will still live because I have a fantastic life and I will go on. However, I want to tell you that you, who are holding on to it for self-preservation, that it will not work. This is because some of those deals and connections that you have will be taken away from you and, if you are not careful, that same machinery you are supporting and pumping money into will come after you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape: Therefore, think twice and sit back because people are not blind. They are seeing right through what is happening and they are reading between the lines. They are seeing every administration and quarter of it. 

Mr Speaker, I speak with honesty, genuineness and with a passion for the people of this country because I care. If you do not, wait until that deity which you say amen to everyday gives his judgment. You will remember me. I lay my dirty tattered apron before those that are wearing invisible clothes and I want to tell them to take it or leave it.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mwape laid the paper on the Table.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, when God created Zambia, he gave this country natural resources. God gave the Government these resources for a good cause and, therefore, they should be used to benefit it and the people in the country. Of course, since we live in a global world, we expect others, who come in all shapes and sizes as investors, to also benefit from our wealth. However, may I say that whenever you make decisions concerning our wealth and natural resources, please, have Zambia at heart.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: In whatever you, as a Government do, just for once, think of Zambia. When you are alone, ask yourself whether the decisions that you are making are benefiting Zambia. If the answer is yes, then you are doing good for this country.

We, as a country, are blessed with mineral wealth and you know that minerals, by nature, are a wasting asset. Once exploited, they can never be replaced. You will be left with gapping holes scattered throughout the country and when the investors are long gone, you will have no money to use in order to attend to the environmental hazards they would have left behind. We are telling you this because we have your interest and that of Zambia at heart. 

Mr Speaker, when we advise the Government, we are doing this out of the desire for it to have a good resource environment because only with a good resource envelope can do more for the people.

Sir, the investors are doing very well, especially those that are investing on the Copperbelt. It can hardly be denied that they are making a fortune. Now, let us ask ourselves, for a minute, if we are really getting a good deal and something reasonable for the people out there in Shang’ombo. 

 Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Our problem is that when we advise you, as a Government, you become confrontational. There is no need because we are one. You are on that side and we on this side, but we are here to make sure that we help each other. Nobody would want to take over a government that is non-functional. When your term has run its full course, whoever will take over must be able to do so from where you would have left. That person can only have a good job if you leave something behind. If the Government is denying itself the opportunity of raising money, it is not doing this country any good. 

Therefore, my submission is that this is a good Budget, but it would have been better had the Government, for once, given serious thought to harvesting more from our friends who are running our copper mines.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.:  That is all we are saying. We are not saying that you should kill them, no. We are saying that they are earning so much profit. At least, get something reasonable for yourselves, your people and our people. That is all we are saying. This is a common cause. This is what you and we stand for. The only point of difference is that, for whatever reason, whenever we request the Government to pay attention to the windfall tax, some of you even have the guts to say that, we, the people on your left, Mr Speaker, do not know what we are talking about. 

Mr Speaker, it is not a question of not knowing what we are talking about. We cannot all be one-track minded. Therefore, when you sit there as an hon. Ministers, you must have capacity to listen to divergent views. That is what will make you a good hon. Minister. The ability to listen to people is what will also make your Government good.

Mr Speaker, when you retire, consider these things seriously because nobody is interested in bringing down anybody. What for? There can be only one minister and president at any given time, but as your job entails, you must listen to those who are not in your shoes, at that time. This is because experience has shown that there is a tendency of people, when they are in Government, to tell the Head of State only the things he wants to hear. This trend has not started now. It started a long time ago. Therefore, when we are advising you, treat it as fresh air and, please, have time to breathe it. 

Therefore, I am saying that this Budget is good, but it would have been better had the Government considered raising a little more revenue from our friends who are minting our resources, especially those who are running our copper mines. That is all I am saying. The decision is yours. However, I hope that when you retire to bed, you will ask yourself whether your decisions are in the interest of Zambians. 

We, in the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD), have a policy, when we say, “FDD”, we say “Zambia first” and this is for a good reason. When you are in the Government, whatever decisions you make for the benefit of the people, have the Zambians at heart. Make decisions that will benefit the Zambians but, alas, some of the decisions may be questionable because we are deliberately letting the foreigners enjoy at the expense of our people.

As I am talking now, there is an outbreak of measles in Chasefu Constituency, but there is no medicine. If you raised a lot of money, it should not have been a problem because your resource basket would have had money readily available. So, please we mean well.

Mr Speaker, you will see that year in and year out, money is always allocated to the Rural Electrification Authority. Some of us come from a constituency where people are crying, day in and day out, but why has the MMD Government forgotten them? Electricity which is supplied to Lundazi Boma comes from Malawi. Lundazi Boma, Lumezi and Lundazi constituencies are electrified by Malawi. The electricity grid passes through Chasefu. 

However, each time the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning announces a good allocation to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), I sigh in relief that, maybe, this time around, the only forgotten constituency in Lundazi District will see some light.

Mr Muntanga: Alas!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Alas! That is not the case.

Mr Ngoma: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Sir, if you improved the revenue collection by collecting money from the people that exploit us, you would have a lot of money at your disposal. This would be to an extent that I should not have been standing here crying for electricity. It is about time you started harvesting reasonably from these people.

This Government has no mercy for the people in employment. They are always taxed.

Mr Ngoma: Heavily!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: However, it becomes difficult to tax copper mining companies. Is it because they make contributions?

Mr Muntanga: To the party!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I am not saying that.

Laughter

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: We all know that contributions are welcome, but after receiving such contributions, ask yourself this question: Are these contributions compromising me to an extent that I will treat them fairly? I think it is about time we listened to each other, please.

Mr Speaker, when copper runs out, these investors will find no need to remain here and you will have nobody to protect, but the Zambians will still be here. For once, have a heart for the Zambians. Is your heart on the left or right?

Mr Ngoma: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Put your hand there and you will feel the suffering of the Zambians.

Interruptions

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Chasefu Constituency has no allocation for electrification projects in this Budget. Is it a good Budget?

Mr Ngoma: No!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I will not answer that.

Laughter

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Recently, we changed the Budget Cycle. I believe that was done for a very good reason, which is to ensure early disbursement of funds once the Budget has been approved. What is happening now? Are funds being released timely or are they a being released after a presidential announcement only? These are serious issues.

Mr Ngoma: Yes!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: If there is an increase in the Budget, this will pose a challenge of release of funds.

In the last Budget, Chasefu Constituency had a number of projects which were lined up. Some of the projects called for community participation. The poor people of Chasefu raised their 25 per cent contribution but, to date, and this is the end of October, this Government has not released the funds.

Mr Ngoma: Sure!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: We also recently changed the Constitution and amended a particular clause to facilitate a change in the Budget Cycle, but the experience is that, notwithstanding the change, the bureaucrats are still sitting on the money. When will that money be released?

People may say this Budget is very good, but my worry is that good as it may be, implementation will be very difficult. This is because with the little money that was appropriated, last year, we have not seen other moneys being released for projects. What will happen to this multi-trillion Budget?

Mr Ngoma: K20.5 trillion!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: May I, once again, plead with this Government and say that we all want development in our areas.

Mr Muntanga: Continue!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: However, in Chasefu, none of the projects have taken off.

Mr Ngoma: None!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: The people made their contributions when it came to the construction of schools. They brought river and building sand and bricks, but if you go to the ministry, they will tell you there is no money.

Even as late as today, I was asking some doctors in Lundazi whether the money for construction of rural health centres and clinics had been released and the answer was no. I said, “Oh dear me, but I supported the amendment to change the Budget Cycle thinking it was for a good cause.” All of us agreed it was for a good cause, but who are the bad ones in this situation? It is those people on your right.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lumba: Zambia first!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

The House adjourned at 1955 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 27th October, 2010.