DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 2nd November, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
________ 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON 2010 EXAMINATIONS

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, over the years, there have been a number of examination malpractices around the country, mostly involving Grade 12 examination papers. The common subjects in which this practice has been rampant are Biology, Mathematics and Commerce. In 2008, 285 cases were recorded while eighty-nine cases were recorded in 2009. 

Some of the reasons contributing to the examination malpractices include the lack of adequate preparation of pupils by teachers, the academically challenged students wanting to pass their examinations through cheating and unscrupulous people who wish to make money out of selling stolen examination papers. In some cases, they even sell fake examination papers to unsuspecting members of the public. 

I wish to state that my ministry has made an effort to address the problem of examination malpractices so that our examinations are credible. The following measures have been put in place:

(i)    we have instituted security committees;

(ii)    we are holding security committee meetings with provincial education officers;

(iii)    we have intensified the monitoring of examinations throughout the country;

(iv)    we have constructed strong rooms in each school for storage of examination papers;

(v)    we have ensured that only two people, the head teacher and the supervisor, have different sets of keys to the strong room where examination papers are kept; and

(vi)    we are holding meetings with provincial education officers and district education board secretaries on the management of the examination process.

Mr Speaker, as the nation is aware, examinations at Grade 7 have just ended while the Grade 9 and 12 examinations are still in progress. 

The Grade 7 examinations began on Tuesday, 26th October and ended on 29th October, 2010. A total of 343,333 candidates entered for the examinations. The Grade 9 examinations began on 14th October and will end on 26th November, 2010. A total of 281,033 entered for them.

The Grade 12 General Certificate of Education (GCE) examinations began on Friday 8th October, 2010 and will end on 12th November, 2010. A total of 144,282 candidates entered for the examinations. Teacher education examinations will start on 15th November, 2010 and will end on 26th November, 2010. A total of 2,800 candidates entered for the examinations.

I wish to inform the House that the examinations began on a good note and are progressing well. However, as a ministry, we are saddened by the information of examination malpractices that took place at Chitoloki High School in the North-Western Province, Nanga High School in the Southern Province and Chifubu High School on the Copperbelt Province.

At Chitoloki High School, the strong room where the papers were kept was broken into using the accounts officer’s office. This was done by ripping off the two locks to the grill door and breaking the panel door to the strong room. All the Grade 12 GCE tamper proof paper packs, apart from the Lunda/Luvale pack, were opened. So far, eleven pupils and a watchman have been arrested and the case is in the courts of law.

Fortunately, the police responded quickly and, by the next morning, all the papers were recovered.

With regard to the incident at Nanga High School in Mazabuka of the Southern Province, the papers were tampered with and some question papers were taken. The papers in question included English, Citonga, Science, History, Mathematics, Civic Education, Agricultural Science and Principles of Accounts examination papers. 

There was no burglary noticed as the offices were intact. So far, two teachers are in police custody and investigations pertaining to the conduct of the head teacher, the supervisor and the people who had keys to the strong room are still going on.

Mr Speaker, at Chifubu High School in Ndola, on the Copperbelt Province, invigilators, in error, gave Grade12 GCE candidates Science Paper II instead of Paper I. After the wrong paper had been given out, one pupil observed that the paper distributed was a wrong one.

The pupil pointed out that they were supposed to write Science Paper I and not Paper II, which is due on 5th November, 2010. At that point, the invigilators withdrew Paper II but, unfortunately, in the process, two papers could not be accounted for. It was at this point that the seven invigilators decided to search all the candidates, but could not recover the two papers. 

Mr Speaker, fortunately, last Monday, one paper was found and investigations are still going on.

Mr Speaker, I wish to state that, while my ministry is concerned with the reported malpractices in our schools, especially as this erodes the credibility of the education system in Zambia, examinations will continue as scheduled while those involved in the malpractices will be dealt with accordingly.

I also wish to state that my ministry has also sent education standards officers throughout the country to monitor examinations and ensure that the laid-down regulations on examinations are being followed.

In addition, I wish to state that those teachers involved in examination malpractices will be dismissed immediately while pupils will be expelled. Further, in order to ensure that no pupil goes in the examination room with any unauthorised material, invigilators will conduct a thorough inspection of each pupil before entering the examination room. 

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to caution members of the public against involving themselves in examination malpractices. I also wish to appeal to everyone to be on the look out for unscrupulous people who may be selling fake question papers. Some of these papers may even seem genuine, but they are not.

I would like to request hon. Members of Parliament and the public to be on the look out and report any one in possession of examination materials without authority to the police, Ministry of Education, or, indeed, the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ).

Mr Speaker, members of the public are invited to join the ministry’s effort in stamping out examination malpractices as these negatively impact on the integrity of the examinations. 

I shall issue another ministerial statement when examinations are over.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Quality!

Mr Speaker: The honourable House may have listened as attentively as I did and it sounds to me that, at this stage, the statement is of an informative nature. The problem has been outlined, the measures that are to be taken have been mentioned and the hon. Minister will come back to give another statement detailing the outcome of the examinations that are taking place in the schools under her ministry.

There may be some hon. Members who may wish to ask for points of clarification on the statement that has just been made. Is there any?

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether any pupil or teacher has been convicted of any malpractice or cheating in the examinations. If so, what is the penalty so that people learn from it and refrain from cheating?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I mentioned, in the statement that, over the years, a number of people have been brought before the courts of laws and convicted. I am sorry I do not know exactly what the penalty is, but I concede that it is an important point that the public has to be informed about it so that it serves as a deterrent.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated the establishment of security committees at provincial, district and school levels. Therefore, I would like to find out from her whether or not these examination malpractices have not been rampant at production of the particular examination papers.

Mr Siliya: Mr Speaker, currently, our examinations, particularly the ones for 2010, were printed in the United Kingdom (UK). All measures were taken to ensure that security was provided in that process. From our investigations, it seems a lot of these malpractices take place during delivery of examination papers to schools and after they have been delivered to the various schools.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the pupils from Chitokoloki High School have been allowed to go ahead with their examinations in view of what transpired.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I mentioned in the statement that the seven pupils as well as the watchmen involved in the malpractice are being held by the police.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The question was on whether the pupils were still allowed to write their examinations despite the leakage.

 Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the pupils at the school are writing examinations, but the seven pupils as well as the watchmen who were caught with the examination papers are being held by the police. Obviously, those have not been allowed to write their examinations. 

I thank you, Sir.

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ITEZHI-TEZHI DISTRICT HOSPITAL LABORATORY

140. Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    when the construction of a laboratory at the Itezhi-tezhi District Hospital, which stalled in 2007, would resume; and 

(b)    what the estimated cost of completing the works, including the provision of equipment, was.

The Minister of Health (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, the construction of a laboratory at the Itezhi-tezhi District Hospital was started in 2006 with funding from the Government. A total of K257 million has been spent on the project as per Ministry of Health Infrastructure Operational Plan. In this year’s budget, the Ministry of Health has allocated K100 million towards the completion of the laboratory.

Mr Speaker, the total amount required to complete the works and procure laboratory equipment is K450 million.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker …

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

A point of order is raised. Is it related to what is going on in the House?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order as Chairperson for the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare in Parliament. Is the hon. Minister of Health in order to keep quiet and not inform this august House about why Tuberculosis (TB) and Antiretroviral (ARVs) drugs are running out in some clinics in Lusaka, Ndola and Mazabuka, as one of my colleagues, Hon. Nkombo, made mention of? 

I need your serious ruling.

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: When the hon. Minister of Health answers the next question, may he deal with that point of order as well.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health, in his response, stated that K100 million had been allocated to complete this laboratory. Could he assure this House and the people of Itezhi-tezhi that the laboratory will be completed before 2011 so that people from that area can also feel that they are ‘equitably’ being governed properly?

Laughter

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I cannot give a guarantee that we will finish constructing the laboratory this year, 2010. However, definitely, by 2011, we should be able to complete it. As I have already explained, a lot of work has been done on this place and what remains to be done is the acquisition of laboratory equipment. Therefore, by the end of 2011, we should have this laboratory operational.

Sir, with regard to the shortage of TB drugs and ARVs, I would like to inform the House that we operate a request and not a push system. The request system is such that that a clinic requests for the quantities it wants to use. 

Sir, the push system was abandoned because we ended up with a lot of expired drugs. This was so because we pushed drugs to clinics that did not use the quantities that were delivered. Therefore, the Medical Stores Limited (MSL) acts on requests. If a clinic does not request, there could be a very big problem. 

Mr Speaker, at the moment, we have four FDCs and three FDCs at the MSL. If there are clinics that do not have those drugs, they better make requests.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister used certain acronyms. Can he explain what they mean?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the FDC means fixed dose combination.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: What is MSL?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, with regard to the shortage of TB drugs and ARVs, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is confirming to the nation that various hospitals and clinics have been negligent by failing to procure drugs when they are readily available at the MSL.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I have stated here that the system that we run is a request system. All clinics, except the health posts, which have a kit every month, have to make a request to the MSL. Then, it puts together the drugs requested and sends them to that particular health centre. At times, there are problems if the requesting clinic does not put up the required number or forgets to make a request. However, like I said, we stopped the push system because too many drugs expired in the process. 

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, we all know that Itezhi-tezhi is a district. Therefore, I would, please, like to find out what happens to the patients who need laboratory services. Where are their specimens taken? 

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, most of our hospitals in districts such as Mazabuka and Choma have laboratory facilities. These are centres where samples are taken. It is not only in Itezhi-tezhi where there is no laboratory. This happens in most clinics where there are no laboratory services. Therefore, whenever these samples are collected, they have to be taken to a place where laboratory services are offered. Sometimes, these specimens are brought to Lusaka or even taken to South Africa. The person you are calling Nkhanza takes the samples to South Africa. So, what is so strange about taking the samples to Choma?

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Sir, the last time I heard about the shortage of drugs was in relation to Mazabuka and we were told by the hon. Minister that he would travel …

Mr Speaker: Order!

 May you ask a question?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister offered that he could travel to Mazabuka, we asked if he could present a report to this House. Can we know why he did not travel and when he is going to give us a full report on the findings in Mazabuka?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the reason we did not travel is that Hon. Nkombo did not see it necessary for us to do so. Therefore, he decided that we speak to the people on the phone. We got out together with Hon. Nkombo and spoke to the people. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hospitals and clinics running out of these vital drugs both belong to the Ministry of Health. Would the hon. Minister indicate to the House what action he intends to take against these people whose lack of planning is endangering the lives of our citizens?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, we are carrying out an investigation with regards to all the people we have deployed as pharmacists in the provinces. We want to know how they are organising the distribution and the request system that we have put in place. We are, at the moment, starting with Mpulungu and then we will cover the rest of the country. This will enable us see what is getting wrong with the system.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CHAMA/MATUMBO BRIDGE

141. Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the Chama/Matumbo Bridge on the Luangwa River would be constructed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has earmarked the construction of the Chama/Matumbo Bridge on the Luangwa River for 2012. 

Interruptions

Dr Kalila: Sir, this is because the Government was unable to include the project in the 2011 Annual Work Plan due to limited resources. The Government is focused on completing the on-going projects before embarking on new ones.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, may I have a final guarantee that, come 2012, this bridge will be constructed because this has been going on since 2000 …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Was that a question?

Mr Mooya: Yes.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, if the House will be able to provide some money in 2012, we will attend to that bridge.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, there was some construction equipment that was taken to the Chama/Matumbo Bridge. May the hon. Minister tell the nation what has happened to that equipment, in particular, a floating bridge which was moved there, or will it wait until 2012?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, if materials are procured for certain projects, but, maybe, due to limited resources, we are unable to use them, of course, they are, sometimes, moved to other bridges that have money provided so that they can be used in the construction.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the feasibility studies on the same project have been completed and how much will be spent on it.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the feasibility study was completed and the estimated cost is K12.5 billion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

__________

MOTION

WAYS AND MEANS

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Ways and Means to consider the raising of supply.

I am a bearer of five messages from His Excellency the President, recommending that this Motion, which I now lay on the Table, be proceeded with in this House.

Mr Speaker, as a result of the Budget which I presented to this House on the 8th of October, 2010, it is necessary to introduce certain financial measures that I will outline in the Committee. 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move. 

Mr Speaker: I am impressed. The House now knows what the trick is on this kind of Motion. 

The hon. Minister may wind up debate.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the House for the support.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.

________

COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
 Chair]

CUSTOMS AND EXCISE ACT

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Customs and Excise Act so as to –

(i)    increase the threshold at which an importation requires a bill of entry;

(ii)    enhance procedures for entry of goods prior to importation;

(iii)    remove provisions dealing with licensing of service providers;

(iv)    re-name the Customs Division as the Customs Services Division;

(v)    revise the rates of customs and excise duty payable on certain goods; and

(vi)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is enable me introduce legislation to amend the Customs and Excise Act so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 8th October, 2010.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank the House for the support. 

Question put and agreed to. 

VALUE ADDED TAX ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Value Added Tax Act so as to –

(i)    revise the definitions of commercial property and Tribunal;

(ii)    re-name the Value Added Taxes Division as the Domestic Taxes Division; and

(iii)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is enable me introduce legislation to amend the Value Added Tax Act so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 8th October, 2010.

Madam Chairperson, I thank the House for the support. 

Question put and agreed to. 

INCOME TAX ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Income Tax Act so as to – 

(i)    increase the tax free income threshold for individuals from nine million, six hundred thousand kwacha per annum to twelve million kwacha per annum;

(ii)    increase the person with disability tax credit from one million, nine hundred and twenty thousand kwacha per annum to three million kwacha per annum;

(iii)    extend the taxation of income exceeding two hundred and fifty million kwacha at forty per cent, to electronic communications networks and services;

(iv)    discontinue the deductibility of interest expense on mortgages for individuals;

(v)    increase the exempt portion for income received upon termination of employment from twenty-five million kwacha to thirty-five million kwacha;

(vi)    provide for specific penalties for the failure to pay mineral royalty; and

(vii)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly. 

Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is enable me introduce legislation to amend the Income Tax Act so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 8th October, 2010.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank the House for the support.

Question put and agreed to. 

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX (Amendment) ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act so as to:

(i)    increase the property transfer tax rate from three  per cent to five per cent;

(ii)    prohibit the avoidance of payment of property transfer tax; and

(iii)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.

 Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me introduce legislation to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act so as to introduce changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 8th October, 2010.

Madam, Chairperson, I beg to move.

Question put and agreed to.

THE ROAD TRAFFIC (Amendment) ACT

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Road Traffic Act so as to:

(i)    revise the licence fees payable in respect of motor vehicles and trailers; and

(ii)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.

 Madam Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me introduce legislation to amend the Road Traffic Act so as to introduce changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 8th October, 2010.

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

Can there be order in the House.

Question put and agreed to.

________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Resolution reported.

Report adopted.

Question put and agreed to and Mr Speaker appointed the Minister of Finance and National Planning to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bill to give effect to the resolution of the Committee of Ways and Means.

________

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL, 2010

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled an Act to amend the Customs and Excise Act, 2010.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 18th November, 2010.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am on the Floor. May those who are talking, please, take care.

THE VALUE ADDED TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled an Act to amend the Value Added Tax Act, 2010.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 18th November, 2010.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled an Act to amend the Income Tax Act, 2010.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 18th November, 2010.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled an Act to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act, 2010.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 18th November, 2010.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE ROAD TRAFFIC (Amendment) BILL, 2010

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled an Act to amend the Road Traffic Act, 2010.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Communications, Transport Works and Supply. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 18th November, 2010.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

REPORT STAGE

The Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professionals Bill, 2010

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010.

________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
  Chair]

VOTE 11– (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – K630,567,910,015)

VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Headquarters – K209,097,136,276)

VOTE 16 – (Drug Enforcement Commission – K24,942,241,344)

(Resumption of debate)

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Madam Chairperson, when the House adjourned on Friday, I was contributing to the debate on three votes.

First of all, allow me to congratulate those hon. Members who were recently elected to this Parliament. I would like to congratulate Hon. Captain Moono (Chilanga) and the hon. Member for Mpulungu, Mr Mungomba, on their election to the House.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to say that when the election results were being announced, I was at some place where somebody said, “How can the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) win in Mpulungu when they are failing to take development there because there is no network? You can see how the Patriotic Front (PF) President is searching for network.” I told that person that the PF President was sincere because he was seated under a mast, thus indicating that there was network and development in the area. 

Laughter

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, I can say it was a well-deserved win.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, some of the issues which were talked about by the newly-elected hon. Member for Chilanga relate to some of the heads which are under discussion. He talked about a number of issues in a very forceful manner. I was seated here and listening quietly … 

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

I think you all have started with a bang because there is talking everywhere. Can we listen to the hon. Member on the Floor of the House.

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, I was listening quietly, especially to the part where he said that retired generals from the defence forces were walking because they have not yet received their pensions. I said to myself that the Committee on Government Assurances, to which I am a member, had been pursuing the issue in question and that all the former service chiefs had been paid their terminal benefits last year.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, I think the hon. Member should go back to the drawing board regarding that issue. 

Interruptions

Mr Chella: Ni captain ulya tetieshibe fya ma generals.

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, as I conclude my congratulatory messages, I wish to congratulate the MMD for what it has done in the Luapula Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, somewhere in some book, it is written that, “Man cannot live on bread alone”, meaning that people anywhere, including those in the Luapula Province, need both their developmental and social needs to be attended to. I want to tell those who scare the people of the Luapula Province by saying that when they come into power they will fix them that they will not get a vote from that area. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, while contributing to the debate on the Zambia Police expenditure, I would like to indicate that the Luapula Province has not received as much as the other provinces have under this allocation. 

Interruptions`

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, I say so because when you look at the allocation for the Zambia Police Service in Luapula, they have only been given K8,640,162,042 with the North-Western Province having the second lowest figure allocated at K14,462,584,607. With this in mind, I am wondering whether the Luapula Province can be comfortable with this kind of allocation where they have even been beaten by TAZARA police which has been allocated K12,067,996,894. The Luapula Province is a very big…

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

There is too much noise in the House. I know we are in committee, but even it has procedures which are the same as House procedures. I, therefore, urge hon. Members to consult in the traditional way of speaking in low tones. When it is absolutely necessary that you must speak loudly, you can move out of the Chamber and later come back when you are done with that conversation. Otherwise, it is very difficult to follow what is being said. 

Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that in terms of allocations, even the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) police have beaten the Luapula Province police allocation because they have been given K12,067,999,894, and yet these are officers who are just looking at the TAZARA operations. 

Now, look at the police in the Luapula Province, who are looking at a whole province which has a lot of people. Maybe, this is as a result of the number of polling stations in the province because it has the lowest number of polling stations in the country. On Friday, the hon. Minister said there are six police stations in the Luapula Province. Maybe, this is the reason we have this kind of allocation. I would like to ask the hon. Minister to, at least, do something so that Luapula can have the share that it requires.

Madam Chairperson, let me now talk about Mwense Police operations. In fact, I should say let me talk about security agencies in the district. When I visited the police station, I was saddened to find the police officers giving outsiders to type and photocopy very sensitive information. This means that the secrets of the nation are at stake because the police at the police station do not have any equipment to process documents, not even a single typewriter. So, I just want to ask the hon. Minister to, at least, purchase this equipment because we cannot let such sensitive information get into the hands of people who are not police officers.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about transport, especially in the Prisons Department. Mwense has what we call an open prison which is about 7 km from where the offices are situated in the Boma. The police officers always struggle to get the inmates from the offices to the open prison because they do not have transport. With such kind of an allocation, I do not think we can buy such equipment or the necessary materials that we want. Therefore, I also want to ask the Prisons Department to look at the problem at Mwense so that it can find a way of sorting it out. 

Madam Chairperson, I will be failing in my duties if I do not mention that the people in this country have stopped respecting law enforcement agencies, such as the police, among others. We need to be reminded that actually these law enforcement agencies are doing a noble duty which contributes to the development of this nation. The peace and development that we talk about everyday, largely, is as a result of these people who make sure that law and order is maintained. It is saddening to note that very senior members of this country can even mock the police officers when they are simply doing their duties. 

Interruptions 

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, for instance, during the fight for independence, a lot of people sacrificed their lives because they wanted to get independence to enable us do whatever we wanted to do as a nation. Of course, I am reminded that there were black constable police officers who even betrayed their fellow black people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, they were beating them day and night. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: They were pleasing that white oppressor and it is surprising that these same police constables are the ones who are mocking the police officers today …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: … for doing their duty. It is very unfortunate. 

Interruptions

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, as a former miner, at least, I should be in the forefront of protecting the interests of the miners.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, it is saddening that those people who once worked as police officers are, today, the ones that are even condemning these police officers for doing their noble duties unlike them who betrayed their fellow black people. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, it is very disheartening that things are that way. Thus, I want to appeal to all politicians and well-meaning Zambians to respect this cadre of workers. They are working under very difficult circumstances. Unless they see support from us, they are bound to fail in carrying out their mandate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, with such kind of behaviour in our society, I want to implore the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to find more money so that the short batons that he wants to buy are bought. 

Laughter

Mr Chongo: Mr Chairperson, I want to ask the hon. Minister to consider what I have said because we cannot tolerate this kind of attitude. If those people this side can form government, would they not need police officers to maintain law and order?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Madam Chairperson, they would need the police officers. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Remind them.

Mr Chongo: Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, you have the important task of showing everyone that nobody is above the law. The police officers should wield the short buttons in front of these politicians who do not want to respect the police officers who are simply doing their duties like they do to those who grab land from people. 

With these words, Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Before I give the Floor to the next speaker, I appeal that let us try, for once, to debate the Budget. I think that it will be good for us. If we do not debate the Budget, people will fail to understand what we are debating. What we are debating is followed by people across the country. I think you are all aware that if the debate of the next person is the same as the one before, then it would be best for us to quickly move on and pass the Budget. The other debate that does not relate to the Budget can be done elsewhere. 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate of the 3 votes under consideration. 

Madam Chairperson, I have listened very attentively to the debates that have been taking place in this House pertaining to the vote which concerns the Zambia Police. I am reminded of a statement that was made by our former colleague, the hon. Member for Namwala, who once talked about an insect that eats itself gradually until it dies. 

Laughter 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, you have prudently advised that, as we debate, we must be prudent enough not to forget where we are coming from. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, we are all aware that, in this House, most of us have been sponsored by political parties that are being led by leaders outside this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, we shall not be behaving prudently by speaking maliciously about our leaders, who are outside this House and are not able to defend themselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Those who have been expelled should go back to court and withdraw their challenge of the expulsion so that we can have by-elections.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Mr Mwiimbu …

Mr Ntundu: That is a preamble.

The Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Order!

The Chair is sincerely concerned because I have said that I want to hear debate on the Budget. If the hon. Member continues along that the route of counselling other hon. Members instead of debating the Vote on the Floor, then he has no points and may have to wind up.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, that statement was a preamble and I now want to come to issues affecting the Ministry of Home Affairs. First and foremost, I would like to congratulate my colleague, the former Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House, who is now the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. I would like to take this opportunity to remind him of the fact that he is an hon. Member of the Opposition serving under the Ruling Party. Therefore, we expect that he will be defending the defenceless as he endeavours to run the affairs of his ministry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I would like to state that, as I speak on behalf of the people of Monze and Zambia as a whole, I am a very sad person. This is so because of what has been transpiring, of late, pertaining to the abuse of rights of individuals in this country. The way the Ministry of Home Affairs and Zambia Police Service are managing the internal security of the nation is saddening.

Madam Chairperson, it is not unusual to note that what is obtaining in this country, at the moment, is a situation where there are two sets of laws being applied by the Ministry of Home Affairs, Zambia Police Service and other law enforcement agencies. I say so because of the selective manner in which the Ministry of Home Affairs, through the Zambia Police Service, is ensuring that the laws of this country are adhered to. The Ministry of Home Affairs, Zambia Police Service and other security agencies have been abused by the MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I have evidence to show that members of the MMD have been abusing officers in the Zambia Police Service. The few police officers who have been striving to uphold the rule of law have been threatened with dismissals and transfers by MMD officials.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: They have been abused by party cadres. We are aware of officials in the Ruling Party who have made statements against officers in the Zambia Police Service and threatened members of the public with violence and nothing has been done. 

Madam Chairperson, for ease of reference, I would like to give examples to justify my point. MMD officials are on record as having threatened Hon. Nawakwi, Bishop Duffy, Father Frank Bwalya and a number of Zambian citizens.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Yet, no police action has been taken against these members of the Ruling Party.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, at one time, the Inspector-General of Police himself made a public statement to the effect that threatening violence was not an offence. That was very sad and unfortunate. We all know that threatening violence is a criminal offence and the police are supposed to take action against any individual who threatens the life of another. However, this has not been the case. 

Madam, the individuals I am referring to are known and there is evidence that they have committed this crime. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs is aware of various complaints that have been made to his office and the Zambia Police Service pertaining to the actions of these individuals, but no action has been taken.

Madam Chairperson, my fear for this country is that, one day, a number of upright citizens will stop respecting the law. They will take the law into their own hands and want to defend themselves.

The Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Order!

The hon. Member, who is a national leader, may have to tone down his language because the people listening out there may not know what is in his heart and, therefore, misinterpret what he is saying. Talking of people not respecting the law can sound a very dangerous warning to the nation and, therefore, …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Order! 

… the hon. Member will not take that route and will speak like the leader that he is in this House.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I would like the nation to hear me and listen to what I have to say from my heart because I am with them. What I am doing is to only plead …

The Chairperson: Order!

 I think that you are challenging the Chair.

Mr Mwiimbu: No, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: The hon. Member will speak without reference to the guidance. The guidance is that when you state that the people out there will stop respecting authority, it may sound to them that they can actually do that.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

Such a statement should not come from you and, therefore, you cannot be heard to advocate for a situation of that nature.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I am urging the Government to ensure that the lawlessness that is obtaining in the MMD is nipped in the bud.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Ruling Party members should not be the champions of violence in this country. They should not be seen to threaten Zambians.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: There is no one who is above the law. Everyone is supposed to be equal before the law of this land. Unfortunately, we have an Animal Farm scenario obtaining in this country.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to bring to your attention the unfortunate situation that has been obtaining through the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). The ZNBC has been used as a conduit …

The Chairperson: Order! Order!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: I cannot see the relationship between broadcasting and the police.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

 References made must be relevant to the matter being debated and the hon. Member knows that. 

Mr Mwiimbu, you will have to explain to us the relevance of broadcasting to the issue on the Floor before you continue with your debate.

Interruptions 
 
Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I will give the relevance through the statement I am about to give.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I have been saying that the ZNBC ...

The Chairperson: Order! 

The relevance should be given before your statement.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, I will. 

Madam Chairperson, the ZNBC has been violating Section 67 of the Penal Code by preaching hatred. This has been done through allowing individuals to incite hatred against specific human beings, citizens of this country and religious organisations ...

Hon. Opposition Members: ... and that is a criminal offence. The Zambia Police Service has been allowing ...

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: …this to continue and that is the relevance.

The Chairperson: Order! Order! 

I think the hon. Member for Monze Central should really tone down. If the ZNBC has committed a crime, I think, this House will do nothing apart from listen. You know where to take your complaint to get a response. You cannot go about it the way you are doing because your debate will turn out to be inciting too.

 The point that we should all remember is that when we debate, we do it on behalf of the people. We should not seem to be the ones inciting them. We are looking at the Budget and I think the hon. Member must make the relevance of his reference real. You know very well. 

Can we, please, move in the right direction.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that the Zambia Police Service should not seem to be allowing the laws of this country to be violated with impunity by public institutions. I am speaking on behalf of the Catholic Church.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: It has not been given an opportunity to defend itself despite its laws being violated criminally through the ZNBC.

Madam Chairperson, as a leader, I must be seen to be speaking on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves in this House. That is what I am doing. I appeal to the Zambia Police Service to ensure that it applies the law equitably and not selectively.

The Chairperson: Order! Order! 

Hon. Member, you are not challenging the Chair except I think that the entire House must become a little more sensitive. Hon. Members should take their positions very seriously because they, like I am doing, at the moment, speak to the nation.

Hon. Members, you can incite the nation in the manner that you choose to debate. I know that you have been political and it is, probably, because of the 2011 Elections, but remember that, in protecting the ones you may call voiceless, you can end up inciting people. I think it is very important for hon. Members on both sides of the House to go back to the debate and leave the political statements out there. I think there has been a lot of political influence in the debates that we have had and if we continue at this rate, it may be catastrophic. 

We need Zambia and we need to speak for ...

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

 I urge the House to refrain from saying things that may cause division because that is not the role that we should play. I sincerely hope that we will take the position we have forever taken. You cannot generally make an institution look like an enemy of certain people while favouring others? I think that when that is done, you make people extremely sensitive, as they wonder what to do if certain institutions in the nation marginalise them. 

This is a Committee and I know that I am not supposed to debate, but I think I must give this kind of guidance in the House. This guidance goes to both sides of the House. If you want to speak politics, let it be politics of development as you pass the Budget.

The hon. Member may conclude.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. 

Madam, I now want to speak on behalf of the officers in the Zambia Police, Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), National Registration Department and other wings that fall under the Ministry of Home Affairs. I would like to appeal to my colleague, who is a member of the Opposition, serving under the MMD Government to ensure that he makes a difference.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: He will do this by ensuring that the rights and privileges of the hardworking men and women who fall under the Ministry of Home Affairs are protected from abuse. They should be protected by ensuring that their conditions of service are improved.

Madam Chairperson, for the last ten years or so that I have been an hon. Member of Parliament of this House, we have been assured by the Ministry of Home Affairs that it will ensure that the welfare of officers, under it, is improved. Alas, this has not happened to date. I urge my fellow Opposition hon. Member to look at the welfare of the men and women in uniform as we proceed to 2011 for he will need them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam, we have also been informed that the Ministry of Home Affairs was going to purchase bulletproof vests for the police officers and we have been budgeting for them every year. However, to date, we have not been informed whether they have been purchased or not.

Madam, we are aware that certain former officials in the Ministry of Home Affairs diverted the money which was intended for the purchase of bulletproof vests. I want to call upon the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to ensure that, this year or the coming year, the bulletproof vests are bought for the Zambia Police Service. 

Madam, police officers should not start short batonning political opponents, as somebody, whom I thought was an hon. Member of the Opposition, but only learnt, today, that he is a member of the Ruling Party, alleged.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.

Mr Tembo (Nyimba): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor.

Madam Chairperson, I will be brief because I have only three points to put across. Firstly, I want to state that I appreciate the Government’s construction of houses across the country and especially those under the Ministry of Home Affairs. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Tembo: Madam Chairperson, the people of Nyimba Constituency have been reminding me about certain promises that were made to them two years ago. The late President Mwanawasa, SC., may his soul rest in peace, before his demise, promised the construction of twenty-one houses for police officers in Nyimba. I am sure that the tragedy is what has hindered this development to date.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
 
Mr Tembo: Madam Chairperson, I urge the Ministry of Home Affairs to consider the promise which was made sometime back.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: There is nothing wrong with that.

Mr Tembo: I know that most of the houses have been constructed …

The Chairperson: Order!

I have noticed that some hon. Members shout when they like another hon. Member’s line of debate.

Laughter

The Chairperson:  However, they also shout if they do not like the debate. 

Laughter

The Chairperson: Basically, you are just there to shout. That is not correct. There has to be a moment when you listen to other people quietly and digest what they are saying. Some hon. Member never digests anything. He just takes what is said from the surface. Please, hon. Members of the Committee, can we, for once, listen to someone else.

Mr Tembo may continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: Madam Chairperson, I am only a bearer of this message from the people of Nyimba Constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: This is only a reminder to the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: I know the Government has done a lot as regards construction in different ministries, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Tembo: … including the construction of houses for police officers. Recently, the President handed over houses that were constructed in Chipata.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: I know, for sure, that the MMD Government has been sticking to its promises and good policies. The next district to be tackled will be Nyimba.

Laughter

Mr Tembo: Madam Chairperson, I have gone through the Budget and noted the small change in the allocation to the Ministry of Home Affairs. Though I support the Budget allocation to the Ministry of Home Affairs, I feel that it is not adequate. I, therefore, request the Ministry of Home Affairs to move an amendment to increase the Budget allocation so that issues concerning accommodation for policemen and women can be addressed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: Madam Chairperson, I am worried because the rainy season is on.  Madam, I was privileged to visit Nyimba Police and Nyimba Prisons Service camps and feel that we should do something about them immediately. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: I only hope that the Ministry of Home Affairs will treat this matter as an emergency because the two camps have no toilets.

Laughter

Mr Tembo: The toilets are grass thatched. Madam, such a situation needs to be addressed by our good Government as quickly as possible.

Madam Chairperson, I was also privileged to visit the Nyimba Prisons Cells and found that there were only two toilets that service 183 inmates. Can you imagine that?

I urge the Ministry of Home Affairs to come in quickly and solve this problem.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Tembo is debating the Budget. 

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the
 Chair]

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was talking about the sanitation problems the Nyimba Police and Nyimba Prisons Service camps are faced with. I urged the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to quickly move in and treat that as a matter of urgency.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Nyimba Constituency appreciate the development that has taken place in their area.

Mr V. Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: However, the Ministry of Home Affairs is the least in terms of delivering development in my constituency because of the problems that I have cited. 

Mr Chairperson, I also urge the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to consider re-locating the Nyimba Prisons Service Camp and farm to another site. As I have already said, Nyimba has received more development now than before and, hence, has given out most of the land for purposes of development projects. The only land remaining is the prison’s farm. This plan was there before and I, therefore, ask the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to consider this issue as quickly as possible so that the remaining land can also be developed. 

With these few remarks I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote.

Sir, I wish to talk on only one subject although there are many under these Heads. This is a subject which can be indexed by Vote 11/01− Zambia Police − Ministry of Home Affairs− Programme 15, Activity 02 – Fire Arms Registry – K70,000,000.

I intend, if the hon. Minister does not make me change my mind, to move an amendment when we get to individual items that we deduct a Kwacha from this item in protest against the loss of a firearms policy of this country. If the hon. Minister remembers, we once had a very tight policy regarding the possession and use of firearms by private individuals.  In fact, in order to import or buy a new firearm from a shop, you had to surrender the one that you already had or may have obtained from somebody else. There was a fixed number of firearms allowed in the country. This was a very sensible policy, but now it appears to have broken down. Every Chinese construction manager in this country has a firearm and I challenge the hon. Minister to deny that allegation.

Sir, there are numerous universities across the world sponsoring research on the phenomenon of China and Africa. These facts are readily accessible if only you have right email addresses and contacts. It is a standard policy and I wonder whose policy it is. Is it part of the bilateral understanding? Has the Ministry of Home Affairs, if you like, yielded control over firearms to higher authorities or is it just an ad hoc arrangement that has come about because no one is quite sure of how to say no? It is important that we know where we are going forward from here.

The other matter that I have a long memory about is that which His Honour the Vice-President once explained to us, during the Vice-President’s Question Time, that the Chinese are the only people who have ‘colonised’ Africa without violence or firearms. In which case, one can only wonder what the flurry of the crowd in Sinazongwe was all about. Was it for sweets or what? The extent of the number of people who were shocked by the Collumn Mine Shooting is not confined to Zambia, Africa and the West. I have received horrifying messages from China, Beijing, asking whether it was true that their citizens were shooting at workers in Zambia. I know the hon. Minister made a statement about it and answered questions, but he avoided one question. That was when Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga asked him whether it was permissible for foreign investors in this country to possess firearms and use them in labour disputes. He answered very correctly, “Of course, it is illegal for them to use them in labour disputes”, but he did not answer the other question on whether it was permissible for them to automatically own firearms.

Sir, I have lived in this country as an adult and I have worked for forty years …

Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Is it procedural?

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to debate in the manner that he is doing when this matter of the Collum Mine Shooting is in court? Is he not treading on dangerous ground?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order that has been raised by the hon. Deputy Minister of Justice is extremely valid because I have confirmation that this matter is in court which means it is sub judice. 

Will the hon. Member move away from that point immediately and talk about some other things.

Laughter

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, I was just trying to say that, as an adult in this country, for a period of forty years, even if you exclude my visits for education abroad, I have worked on farms which have employed hundreds of people. I know exactly what it looks like to have a crowd coming towards me, demanding …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You are still going back to the same point, hon. Member.

Dr Scott: I am not referring to any particular incident.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, you should not do that.

Dr Scott: The lax policy that seems to be in place regarding the number of firearms in this country and the hands in which they are in needs to be corrected or explained by the Opposition Member who is serving as hon. Minister of Home Affairs or else we will deduct a kwacha from his Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson:  Order!

Hon. Members will realise that a lot of time was taken up earlier in this debate, therefore, I will only give the Floor to one individual and that will be the end.

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to join other hon. Members who have commended all our men and women who work under the Ministry of Home Affairs. I would also like to add my voice to quite a good number of hon. Members of Parliament who had made a passionate appeal to the Government of the day to improve the conditions of service for our men and women under the Ministry of Home Affairs.

Sir, I wish to acknowledge the fact that the Salaries Review Commission has been sitting and I am sure that those who are responsible for putting together all the demands that are supposed to be attended to, have done so. If not, please, through the Ministry of Home Affairs, can they package whatever they can and submit it to the Salaries Review Commission?

Mr Chairperson, the Registrar of Societies has become a very complex department which should be funded sufficiently. If we look at the demands that are placed on that department by a lot of people who are now forming associations and churches, you will realise that, in fact, the equipment that it is using is not sufficient. It is important that the department is funded sufficiently in order to buy modern equipment so that when our people apply for the registration of their societies and churches, they will not be forming long queues. They will be attended to in the shortest possible time. 

Furthermore, we are aware that quite a good number of organisations register their organisations away from Lusaka. It is important for this department to be funded sufficiently so that the men and women who man that department can go out in the field and ascertain whether these organisations are legitimate or not. In most cases, the operations of the department are confined to Lusaka, and yet a number of organisations that have been registered are operating from Kalabo, Chinsali and many other parts of the country. Therefore, it is important for these officers to go and physically check whether these organisations are legitimate and operational or not. In the absence of sufficient funds, it will be extremely difficult for them to know the legitimacy of these organisations.

Sir, the National Archives is another important department. You cannot do without history. In most cases, we tend to pay more attention to other departments not only in the Ministry of Home Affairs, but also beyond.

It is, therefore, important that we provide a lot of money to this department for us to continue being proud of our history. I am happy to note that the building is now looking very beautiful. Our officers must be commended for this. However, we should go beyond this to ensure that our record management is perfect. 

Mr Chairperson, the other issue I would like to talk about is that of refugees. Yes, we are members of the United Nations (UN) and have signed many conventions to the extent that we should continue to give sanctuary to displaced people. However, it is also important to note that when peace prevails in Angola or The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), for instance, efforts must be made to repatriate people back to their countries of origin. Otherwise, we are going to have an influx of non-Zambians. Our fear is that, if we have a lot of non-Zambians, it will be extremely difficult for security personnel to maintain law and order. The Ministry of Home Affairs should ensure that whenever peace prevails in some of these countries, refugees are repatriated to their countries of origin.

Mr Chairperson, for example, countries such as Angola, Rwanda and the DRC are no longer at war. Therefore, refugees from these countries should be repatriated because peace is now prevailing in their countries. 

Mr Speaker, the Immigration Department is an important department. We have been talking about the influx of nationals from different countries and this is the department that is responsible for making sure that we do not continue to habour illegal immigrants. This department can do its job well if it is sufficiently funded. The department needs vehicles to make sure that whenever illegal immigrants are caught, they are taken into safe custody. So, we should make sure that a lot of money is allocated to the Immigration Department to enable it perform its functions to the best of its ability. 

Sir, I am happy to note that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has modernised infrastructure at border areas and that immigration officers are now looking extremely well. We are hoping that even their conditions of service will improve so that they are on a par with their colleagues in the Customs Department. After all, they are doing the same job. The same applies to police officers. They should be on a par with the customs and immigration officers. There should be no discrimination.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk about the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). You are aware that if the influx of drugs is not controlled, there will be a lot of crime in the country. Even our children will be buying the same drugs. Therefore, this department must be given a lot of resources to monitor what is happening in Chama, Shang’ombo and elsewhere. We are aware that apart from the drugs that come into the country through our borders, some Zambians grow some drugs locally. This has to be controlled. If the DEC is not well-funded, how do you expect it to be mobile and control these activities? You have to make sure that you allocate a lot of resources to this department to enable the officers perform their duties well. This department also keeps a lot of dogs that need to be fed, trained and replaced. How can that be done with insufficient funds? These things should be taken into account. 

Mr Chairperson, the Passport Office is doing extremely well. However, it has to be modernised.  Otherwise, we will end up with a lot of non-Zambians obtaining Zambian passports. I am sure that this is being taken care of. 

Mr Chairperson, when I discussed the issue of registration of voters last time, I did mention to the Government of the day that the voters’ registration …

Interruptions

Mr Kasongo: … exercise was a disaster because the National Registration Department did not issue national registration cards (NRCs) to would-be voters. I said, “Please, can you …”

Mr Mabenga: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Chairperson, I seek your serious ruling. Is the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi in order to continue munching groundnuts in this House instead of taking part in the debates?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Kasongo: Mr Chairperson, I was appealing to the Government of the day to ensure that the National Registration Department is funded sufficiently so that it can continue issuing NRCs to would-be voters. For example, in my constituency and even in Luapula Constituency, the exercise could not be conducted due to floods.  

Sir, the Prisons Department is also important. The importance of the Open Air Prisons cannot be over emphasised. If you put a lot of money in this department, prisoners will be able to grow a lot of food. 

Mr Chairperson, lastly, the other point I would like to make relates to the Police Service. I would like to emphasise that the Zambia Police does not belong to any political party. Police officers and security officers are trained to maintain law and order. People who are law abiding are not even concerned about the presence of police officers. It takes two to tango. If I say that police officers are hard on some Opposition political parties, ask yourself why it is like that. Can a police officer simply move into the House of an Opposition hon. Member of Parliament and begin to harass him/her? It is not possible. It means that we create problems on our own. Whether you are a priest, an hon. Member of Parliament or leader of any political party, if you want to create instability in our country, police officers are there to make sure that they maintain law and order. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: As a leader, you must be disciplined. How can you have peace if you are indisciplined to an extent of inciting people? I would like to continue to praise the police officers and tell them that they should continue to maintain law and order, whatever it takes. All of us need peace. For example, if you are a priest who is preaching instability in our country, do you expect the police officers to continue to handle you with kind hands? No, it does not work that way.  You must respect yourself if you want the police officers to respect you. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: In most cases, we invite hostility. The language and behaviour that is used against other people may invite the police to come and caution you. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kasongo: Mr Chairperson, peaceful people in Zambia are not afraid of the police. 

Mr Shakafuswa: No, they are not. 

Mr Kasongo: People who are afraid of the police are those who invite trouble. No one is prepared to go into hiding. We have seen this happen in our neighbouring countries. One careless person can create instability and the whole nation ends up on fire. Ultimately, we blame the police for not taking any action.  

I would like to appeal to our colleagues who belong to different political parties to carefully choose the language to use in their meetings.  

Mr Shakafuswa: Even those who threaten others. 

Mr Kasongo: When you begin to insult other people, whether you are a priest or a politician, I am afraid you will be locked up and nobody will sympathise with you. Zambians, without exception, are supposed to be protected by the Zambia Police Force.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kasongo: If you take it that you are an exception because of what you are, whether a leader of a political party, hon. Member of Parliament or church leader, and begin to preach instability in the country thinking that the police will simply salute you and be on-lookers, you are mistaken. 

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kasongo: I am appealing to police officers not to listen to people who are troublemakers. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kasongo:  Your role is to maintain law and order.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kasongo: We will continue to praise you and strengthen you. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Kasongo: After all, our role, as leaders, is to strengthen police officers and other agents and not condemn them. Let us encourage them so that they can confidently say that their leaders respect and support them and speak on their behalf.  

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to wind up debate. After having heard from those who have spoken and even those who have not, I am sure that we agree that there is a need for us to improve the conditions of service of the people in the security wings under the Ministry of Home Affairs. This is the right approach. 

Zambia has enjoyed peace since its independence in 1964 because of the role that the people in the security wings, under the Ministry of Home Affairs, have played and continue to play. 

Mr Chairperson, I will not comment on all the issues that were raised because some of them are of no substance. I can only take note of some of them. 

Laughter 

Mr Lungu: However, I would like to comment on a few that I feel are of substance. 

Mr Chairperson, on the bullet proof vests, I would like to assure the House that the process of procuring them is underway. We are not just talking about them. Police officers will soon be using vests. This is an assurance. 

Computerisation of the Office of the Registrar of Societies has been provided for in the budget. I can only appeal to hon. Members of Parliament to support the budget. There is also the question of electrification of police camps. A lot of this is contained in the budget and I hope that hon. Members of Parliament will support us in this regard. It must be noted, however, that it is the intention and wish of the Government to ensure that all its officers and security wings, under the Ministry of Home Affairs, do their work proficiently and without any hitches. It has also been agreed that the resource basket will determine what we can do for them.

Mr Chairperson, as I said in the policy statement, a lot of things are being done to improve the conditions of work in the ministry. Houses are being built for officers in the ministry and this will continue to be done. More prisons are being built in order to decongest the ones that are already there. Furthermore, offices are being built for various wings in the Ministry of Home Affairs. 

I would like to thank you all for you contributions. As I said earlier, I can only comment on a few substantial issues as others are not worth commenting on. 

Mr Chairperson, with these few remarks, I wish to appeal to all hon. Members to support my ministry’s budget. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

VOTE 11/01 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Headquarters – K178,878,122,316).

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 10, Activity 04 – Rehabilitation of Police Stations – K775,000,000 and Activity 05 – Rehabilitation of Water and Sewer Systems. Can the hon. Minister be kind enough to indicate to the House which police stations are earmarked for rehabilitation in 2011, for which he requests a sum of K775 million?

In addition, can the hon. Minister indicate where he will find the money to rehabilitate sewer and water systems in police camps such as Chilenje when there is no money allocated for such an activity? 

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Taima): Mr Chairperson, as regards Programme 10, Activity 04 – Rehabilitation of Police Stations – K775, 000,000, the details of which police stations will be rehabilitated will come out in our infrastructure development plan. 

For Activity 05 – Rehabilitation of Water and Sewer Systems, the hon. Member may want to appreciate that this provision is there to generally deal with a very big sewerage problem which was at Lilayi Police Camp. We have since moved this whole allocation under Lilayi. However, we still have other general provisions elsewhere which will take care of problems the hon. Member brought up about Chilenje Police Camp.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, based on the fact that this is an activity-based budget, and in arriving at the figure of K775 million, police stations were identified. Can the hon. Minister indicate which police stations these are?

While I have the Floor, Sir, may I have clarification on Programme 6, Activity 03 – Water  –  K9,917,514,061. Can the hon. Minister indicate whether that K9.9 billion is for water bills at headquarters only or if it is to be spread out to all police stations and camps? If so, can he relate this to the figures that are also provided for under other Votes, including provinces? 

Sir, in addition to that, … 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Lubinda, would you confine yourself to the headquarters and not the provinces.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I am still talking about the headquarters. 

The Deputy Chairperson: How is that so when you mentioned a province?

Mr Lubinda: I just wanted him to relate his answer to the allocation for provinces. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Please, let us not exchange words because I heard you very clearly referring to provinces. Just ask questions which are related to the headquarters.

You may continue, please.

Mr Lubinda: May he also indicate, under Programme 9, Activity 01─ Construction and Procurement of Housing Units ─K10,000,000,000, where these housing units will be constructed?

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, we have been undertaking the construction of houses in Livingstone, Kasama, Chipata and Ndola, which is still not complete. Our aim is to ensure that these projects are completed. Therefore, the money allocated in the budget will assist us in the completion of these housing units. Regarding the names of the police posts to be constructed, the ministry already knows them, but I think it would not be proper for me to mention them right now. We will let you know the names when the time comes. 

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Vote 11/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 11/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11/03 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Lilayi Police Training School – K11,744,335,987).

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 05 – Maintenance of Building – K62,000,000. Given the state of disrepair of the buildings at Lilayi Police Training School, could the hon. Minister indicate what kind of rehabilitation or maintenance he expects the police to undertake using a paltry K62,000,000 when the infrastructure is dilapidated at the school.

Mr Lungu: The issue is that maintenance works are an on-going programme. Sometimes, all the works may not been done in one particular year. Given the resource basket, we are only able to go up to a certain point. Therefore, the amount indicated in the Yellow Book will suffice for now. We may have to look at ways of doing some more works later on because we may not be able to finish all the works at once. 

 I thank you, Sir, 

Vote 11/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11/04 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – State House Police – K19,083,533,272).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 8, Activity 01 – V. I. P. Protection. I would like to find out why we do not have any provision for this service, this year, when we had K400, 000 000 last year.

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, that activity has moved to Cabinet office. Therefore, it will be taken care of under Cabinet Office.

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 11/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11/07 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Para-Military – K30,482,958,517).

Mr Lubinda: May I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 02 – Station Imprest – K36,262,564. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether this money is also supposed to be used for the very important exercise of maintenance of buildings at paramilitary level which also require desperate maintenance given that there is nowhere in that head where there is a provision for that. Is that money going to be used for that as well?

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, this amount of money is only going to be used as it has been stated under that activity. It will not go to other heads.

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, may I seek clarification on why there is a reduction, this year, on the allocation for Programme 1, Activity 01 – Salaries Division I – K1,635,550,451, while there is an increase on Activity 02 – Salaries Division II – K28,174,257,885. Furthermore, why there is a serious reduction on Activity 03 – Salaries Division III – K18,281,321 from K268,750,588 as well as a 50 per cent reduction in the allocation to Activity 04 – Wages – K206,448,027. I would like to find out what exactly is happening here?

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, as I stated in my policy statement, as regards Programme 1 − Personal Emoluments, there is, in fact, supposed to be an increase in the overall allocation as a result of the 15 per cent wage increase given to the Public Service workers. However, it is not the case because there has been a decrease in the number of personnel in certain sections as indicated by the reduction in the expenditure of the same sections. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Vote 11/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11/09 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Lusaka Province – K85,069,552,601).

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Chairperson, I was indicating to ask a question regarding the Airport Division, but you did not see me. I am a bit worried regarding the expenditure with regard to General Administration. I just wanted to ask the hon. Minister under …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Which one?

Mrs Masebo: … on the Airport Division. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Sorry, it has already been passed and agreed to.

Mrs Masebo: Alright, Sir.

Vote 11/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11/12 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Northern Province –K16,510,199,883)

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, may I seek clarification on Unit 2, Programme 8, Activity 01 – Public Order Maintenance. I do not know how this province is going to execute this activity since, last year, there was a provision of K36,500,000 but, this year, there is nothing, despite other provinces having it. I seek clarification on this.

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, this activity has simply been moved to a different heading. We actually have a provision of K70 million this time around.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 11/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11/15 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Luapula Province – K8,640,162,042).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, may I seek clarification on Unit 4, Programme 8, Activity 02 – Public Order Maintenance – K98,430,875. Last year, there was a provision of K25,000,000 and, this year, it has increased to K98,430,875. I would like to find out why this activity has been maintained here and not taken under a different head? Why has there been an increase of over 300 per cent? 

May I also seek clarification on Programme 9, Activity 01 – Traditional Ceremonies – K85,000,000. What has prompted the increase from K37,000,000 to K85,000,000? Are we introducing new ceremonies, if so, which ones are those?

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member will notice that we do not have any provision under Programme 8, Activity 01 – Border Patrols and that is why we have increased the Public Order Maintenance figure since it has taken care of the Border Patrols.

The hon. Member also made an observation on why we have increased the amount for Traditional Ceremonies. I think it is only logical and obvious that this is so because as we all know that we have had quite an increase in the number of traditional ceremonies. Thus, we also have to increase the provisions for security for these ceremonies because the costs associated to the patrols are also increasing.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 11/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Headquarters – K209,097,136,276).

Vote 15/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/03 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Passport and Citizenship – K6,429,702,816).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 04 – Maintenance of Digitised MRPs Network – K2,343,851,813. I would like to know why the allocation has increased.  Furthermore, under the same programme, I seek clarification on Activity 05 – Purchase of Digitised National Travel Documents – K2,491,616,056. I want to know why there is a reduction in the allocation. 

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 2, Activity 04 – Maintenance of Digitised MRPs Network – K2,343,851,813, this provision is necessary for repayments to the Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) loans for passport network  covering Lusaka, Ndola and Livingstone data lines and for the cost of maintaining disserving of digitised passport systems. 

On Activity 05 – Purchase of Digitised National Travel Documents – K2,491,616,056, the provision is required for the purchase of digitised national travel documents and payment of handling charges from the supplier in Germany.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Deputy Minister has not answered my question on Programme 2, Activity 04 – Maintenance of Digitised MRPs Network – K2, 343, 851,813. If payments are being made to ZAMTEL, what has prompted the substantial increase in the allocation from K447,059,196  to K2,343, 851,813?

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, the increase is to enable the meeting of periodic maintenance of the lines we have talked about.

Vote 15/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/10 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Copperbelt Province – Prisons and Reformatories – K1, 022,190,153).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 06 – Offender Management – K45, 814,622. Last year, this activity was allocated K55, 814,622 and we complained about it not being enough. So, with that background, can I have a clarification on why the allocation, this year, has even reduced further. Again, under Programme 6, Activity 03 – Water – K186, 019,480, there is a reduction in allocation against the backdrop of increased costs of chemicals and running water reticulation systems. Why has there been a reduction, instead of an increment?

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, under programme 2, Activity 06 – Offender Management – K45,814,622, there are different activities that we undertake and when we analyse our performance in a given year and see that we have scored in a number of areas, there is no harm in trying to scale down on our activities in that area. 

The reduction in Programme 6, Activity 03 – Water – K186,019,480, is due to the fact that we have made a considerable effort to reduce on most of the outstanding arrears as this year ends.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Luapula Province – Prisons and Reformatories K526,046,472).

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, under Programme 2, Activity 06 – Staff Development – K34,150,000, I have noticed that all the other prisons and reformatories in the various provinces have an allocation for staff development. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the officers in the Luapula Province do not need staff development at all because there was no allocation last year and there is nothing this year.

Hon. Members: No, there is.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I have seen it. Thank you.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 2, Activity 02 − Staff Welfare – K31,879,300 and Activity 06 – Staff Development – K34,150,000, I would like to find from the hon. Minister what necessitated the marginal increase in allocation to prisons and reformatories in the Luapula Province, which had an allocation of  K60 million, in 2010, to K74 million in 2011, and yet for other provinces, for example, the Eastern Province, there was an increase from K48 million to K77 million. Why is this marginal increase only in Luapula? Do the people there not deserve …

Mr Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Lubinda, you have been guided on how to ask questions.

Mr Lubinda: Can the hon. Minister explain why there is a marginal increase in the Luapula Province as opposed to other provinces such as the Eastern Province.

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, this is an activity based Budget and these figures only reach the headquarters after having past through all levels, from the lowest, in the system. Therefore, it was taken that the officers, in their planning, took into account what was happening on the ground in Luapula. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, under Programme 2, Activity 01 – Office Operations – K40,743,532, there has been a reduction from K60,743,530 and there has also been a reduction on Activity 02 – Staff Welfare – K31,879,300 from K70,814,000. However, under the same programme, on Activity 06 − Staff Development − K34,150,000 it is clear that there will still be staff development. Is it not that when there is staff development there are more office operations? So, can the hon. Minister explain why there has been a reduction in the allocation to office operations and staff welfare when there will be increased office activities? Is this not a contradiction?

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, under Programme 2, Activity 01 – Office Operations – 40,743,532, the amount of K19,999,998 has been moved to Activity 06 – Staff Development − K34,150,000.  As regards Activity 02 – Staff Welfare – K31, 879,300, the amount of K38, 934,700 has been reallocated to Programme 6 − Utilities.

Vote 15/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/35 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Lusaka Province – National Registration – K475,099,119).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1, Activity 02 – Salaries Division II – K60,774,974, Activity 03 – Salaries Division III – K161,000,899 and Activity 04 – Wages – K42,784,159. Why have the allocations to the three activities been reduced? Is it because the workforce under the three activities is being downsized?

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the reductions are due to the fact that vacant positions under the three activities have not been budgeted for. 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, as a follow up to that question, can the hon. Minister indicate whether the Government has any intention of filling these vacancies in 2011 or is it …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Member, that is a policy issue, is it not?

Mr Lubinda: Sir, it is a question on the figures …

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, that is a policy issue and you know that.

Mr Lubinda: Now, Sir …

The Deputy Chairperson: This is the budget …

Mr Lubinda: But the figure …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

 Policy matters have already been debated. We are now on individual items on which hon. Members are supposed to seek clarification.

Vote 15/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/38 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/44 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Mukobeko Maximum Prison – K376,757,409).

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 02, Activity 01 – Office Operation – K8,018,620 and Activity 04 – Offender Management – K26,118,704. Can I find out what information or justification Mukobeko Maximum Prison gave for the decrease on office operations from K18 million to only K8 million? Secondly, what was the rationale given by Mukobeko Maximum Prison for the decrease on offender management from K36 million to only K26 million?

Mr Taima: Mr Chairperson, part of the money under office operation has been allocated to staff development because part of the activities that were being carried out under office operation had to do with this. Secondly, under Offender Management, the reduction is due to the reallocation of funds to Activity 05 – Staff Development – K34,150,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I seek further clarification. Can the hon. Minister indicate how Offender Management could possibly be referred to as staff development?

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, offenders have something to do with staff development and so when you talk about them, they become part of the exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 16/05 – (Drug Enforcement Commission – Drug Enforcement Commission – Eastern Province – K147,180,862).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 6, Activity 03 – Water – K1,786,650. How did the ministry come up with such a figure because it will be K100,000 per month for the whole year? 

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, this is a new activity which was not indicated in 2010. So, the amount will suffice to pay for water bills.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 6, Activity 03 – Water – K1, 786, 650.00. This amount can only maintain a borehole for a year. It cannot be for anything else. It cannot be for water bills, can it?

Mr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, we have indicated that the said amount is required for the payment of water bills in 2011. If that will include the maintenance of a borehole, then so be it. It will be good.

I thank you Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, may I have clarification on Programme 6, Activity 03 – Water – K1, 786,650.00. I heard the hon. Minister say that it is a new activity, but I know that it is not. It is only a new head that has been introduced. This activity has always been there. I would like to know whether, according to the hon. Minister’s understanding, K100,000 per month is enough to pay water bills.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister has answered. You may not be satisfied, but that is his answer.

Vote 16/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 16/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote16/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 06 – (Public Service Commission – Office of the President – K4,957,088,987.00).

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to present the 2011 Estimates of Expenditure for the Public Service Commission (PSC).

The PSC is established under Section 7(a) of the Service Commissions Act No. 24 of 1991. Section 13(6) and 21 of the same Act to empower the PSC to make, with the consent of the President of the Republic of Zambia, regulations regarding its operational procedures and to confer powers or impose duties on any person or authority for the purposes of discharging its functions. 

Mr Chairperson, the functions of the PSC, as prescribed under Section 21 (1) (2) and (3) of the Service Commission Act, are as follows:

(i)    make regulations for the appointment, including the power to confirm appointments of persons to any office with respect to which he is charged with responsibility under the Act;

(ii)    make promotions to such offices;

(iii)    exercise disciplinary control of persons holding or acting in such offices;

(iv)    terminate appointments and the remove such persons from office;

(v)    prescribe the qualifications for appointment or promotion to any post and such training courses as shall be considered for promoting or maintaining efficiency;

(vi)    sanction the transfer or secondment of any person holding any such office;

(vii)    act as an appellate body of the Public Service; and

(viii)    provide advice to the President on policies and procedures for employment and for the conduct and discipline of officers in the Public Service.

Mr Chairperson, in 2010, the PSC had an approved budget of K4,541,983,157.00 to cater for ten programmes.

During the year, the PSC was able to dispose of 1,631 outstanding cases. The commission will, this year, continue with this good work.

Mr Chairperson, the commission faces a number of challenges, including the lack of transport. However, it shall strive to address these challenges.

The 2011 programmes and activities set out in this budget framework paper are aimed at enabling the commission carry out its mandate in an efficient and effective manner given the limited financial resources. 

Mr Chairperson, I now have the honour to present the 2011 budget request for the commission amounting to K4,957,088,987.00 only. 

The increase in the budgetary allocation compared to the 2010 Budget is due to salary increments which have resulted in an increase in personal emoluments from K2, 223,418,885 to K2,544,556,938.00.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: I wish to thank the hon. Members for the overwhelming support.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Iyi yena twaichita support.

Vote 06/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 07 – (Office of the Auditor-General – K62,794,146,978).

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Auditor-General is a public office charged with the responsibility of auditing and giving assurances that all revenues collected have been properly accounted for and that the monies expended have been applied on the purposes for which they were appropriated in accordance with the applicable rule and financial regulations. 

The office, therefore, exists to promote good governance, accountability and transparency in the utilisation of public resources.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, before business was, suspended, I was saying that in order to uplift the living standards of our people, the Government has continued with the expansion of its developmental programmes with increased allocation of resources. It is, therefore, imperative that the Office of the Auditor-General carries out audits in all ministries, provinces, and other spending agencies in order to ensure that public resources intended to benefit the people are put to good use. Through the Auditor-General’s Report, the Government, Zambian citizens and other stakeholders are informed of how efficiently the projects and programmes are being implemented and achieved.

Mr Chairperson, with the presence of the office in all the nine provincial centres and the increased manpower for audits, the office has, in 2010, managed to audit all line ministries, provincial administrations and forty local councils.

2011 Budget Programme

Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Auditor-General will continue increasing the audit scope and coverage and improving the quality of audit services.

In this regard, value for money audits, system audits and other specialised audits will be conducted in the coming year in order to meet the unrelenting public demands for quality audit services.

Mr Chairperson, my Government will continue supporting this office by releasing funds on time to ensure all programmes are executed. As a Government, we view this office as one that helps us safeguard our resources for the achievement of intended purposes with minimal wastage.

Sir, considering the important role the Office of the Auditor-General plays in promoting transparency and accountability, and the interest generated within the Zambian community, it is important that this House supports this budget to facilitate the implementation of its audit activities.

Mr Chairperson, I seek the support of this august House to pass the budget for the Office of the Auditor General.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for affording me the opportunity to support this particular budget for the Auditor-General’s Office.

Sir, as you may be aware, I am the Chairperson for the Public Accounts Committee at the moment. The work that is being done by the Auditor-General is a mirror of how effective we are governing ourselves. It is in this regard that I am appealing to all hon. Members of Parliament, especially the Executive, to constantly read the Auditor-General’s reports because there are paragraphs therein with serious information for those in office.

Mr Beene: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: This is because they will be in a position to know exactly how their ministries are performing, especially now when the audit coverage is so extensive. If you look at the Yellow Book, you will see that it has been meticulously itemised. We have displayed how much money is required per client and the Executive is the client.

Mr Chairperson, the linkage between the political leadership and Public Service that controls the pace of implementing Government policies is of paramount importance. I cannot add or subtract from what the His Honour the Vice-President has just said about the importance of that particular office but, for me, it is a barometer. As I sit with my colleagues in the Public Accounts Committee sometimes, we wonder where we are going, as a nation. I can understand where there is inadequate capacity, but cannot understand where there is sufficient capacity. However, people choose to do that which does not enhance development. 

Mr Chairperson, there is a lot of wastage in the manner we are spending our resources. You know that funds from the World Bank, International Monetary Fund (IMF), other donors and, indeed, our own resources have been spent on improving our capacity to manage our own affairs. I think most of the Back Benchers who sit on this Committee ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: … have seen that when you invite witnesses to appear before them, these witnesses know exactly what is right or should be done, but they opt not to spend the money prudently.

Mr Chairperson, let me thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for increasing the budget allocation for 2011 to K62 billion compared to the smaller figure of K45 billion in 2010. However, it is important to realise that 2011 is an election year and we can help ourselves, as the Vice-President stated, by releasing funds on time. Certainly, the audit reports will help us in the governance and delivery of services. 

If public workers know that the political leadership is watching their expenditure and there is an instrument in place such as the Auditor-General’s Office to monitor their activities, it will help them do what is right. We are asking the Executive, since it is in charge of our governance instruments and structures, to respond to the issues that are raised in the reports. It is of no use that certain matters are brought to your attention through audit reports, but you, as hon. Ministers, do nothing about them. 

Therefore, through the Leader of Government Business in the House, I am appealing to hon. Members on your right to take auditing seriously and not as something that is intended to arrest, persecute or send anybody to prison. Most of the audits that are conducted are meant to correct and assist us, but we need someone to report to and those reported to should take action. 

Mr Chairperson, I also want to make another appeal. It is not possible that audits can be conducted in ministries without hon. Ministers knowing because there are specific procedures involved. Those in charge of ministries should be interested in knowing what is happening and how money is being spent in their ministries. I know that the present Act gives more powers to controlling officers, but hon. Ministers are senior officers who should be interested in knowing how the money is being expended and the programmes that have been carried out in the ministries. It is of no use for hon. Ministers to come here and be berated by so many questions by Back Benchers when they do not know what is happening in their ministries. 

The audits that are done are squarely your responsibility and I do not think any controlling officer can stop you from getting involved. Therefore, I thank you for this high allocation, but I want to appeal that the money should be released on time. I also want to appeal to you to take interest in the audits, particularly, in 2011. It will be in your interest to ensure that these audits of the expenditures of the whole Yellow Book are squarely in your hands. 

Mr Chairperson, finally, I want to urge you to release the monies on time to enable the Auditor-General’s Office to carry out its functions. The year 2011 that we are discussing is very delicate. It is an election year and we have got the millennium development goals (MDGs) and many other goals to meet on our hand. The Government has got to make sure that it achieves the MDGs and that it is within Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF). This process does help you to make sure that you spend money where it should be spent in order to enhance development efforts. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the Budget for the Auditor-General’s office, I wish to note the fact that there has been an increment in the allocation to this office. I do not know whether that meets the requirements of the office, but we note the increment. 

Mr Chairperson, this office is very important as Hon. Hachipuka has indicated. It gives us an image of how we are spending public funds. The issue at hand is that with the rollout of coverage of the audits to all provinces, the volume of the Auditor-General’s Report is thickening. That alone sends a message to many stakeholders in the international community of how careful or careless we are in looking after our resources.  It is costly to change a bad impression that you have created for your country. 

At the moment, because of the huge Audit Reports that are coming out, there is an impression that we are a careless nation. Abuse of resources is rampant and people are reading about this. This report that comes out of the Auditor-General’s Office is a public document. Therefore, it is viewed by all stakeholders and the international community. The current situation is that we are a bit careless in using our resources. It will take a very long time to clean up this bad image. 

Mr Chairperson, the Government must do something to reduce these irregularities because some of them are really issues of laxity. For example, there are issues of expenditure being incurred without a voucher being issued and the non-retirement of imprest by careless officers. It is not fair to the rest of the population for such things to continue happening. A few careless officials in the ministries are creating an impression that we are very bad country. That is not fair because we are all contributing to the resources of this country. Therefore, something must be done. 

Sir, the Auditor-General’s Office has done its work, but there is a serious lack of political will to deal with the culprits so that the culture of abuse of resources is minimised and completely eliminated. The issuance of the report has basically become an academic exercise. When the report comes out, it is just stashed in an office awaiting its presentation. Many people and institutions that are guilty of the abuse of resources are well-known, but there is no action that is taken against them. I think the Executive is responsible for this failure. If it took action, even people would begin to fear to abuse the resources. However, now, they think it is just a part of the usual business. If last year, you abused imprest and nothing happened to you, what can stop you from doing it again? You have created loopholes for these officers because you are weak. There is no heavy hand checking on these officers. The financial regulations are very clear.

Mr Chairperson, sometimes, it is very shocking to note that, in some ministries, some Permanent Secretaries do not even have financial regulations in their offices. When they appear before committees, they are even surprised about some of the provisions in the financial regulations that are passed by this House. There are laws to govern how resources must be used. I think the promotions in the Civil Service must be based on merit and performance. Some of the Permanent Secretaries who are moved from one ministry to another, leave a trail of serious audit queries for the next Permanent Secretary to come and defend. They are forced to come and defend what they did not do. Therefore, one of the issues that must be considered as you move our colleagues in the Civil Service is how they manage resources. People are laughing at us. The same Permanent Secretaries who were heading ministries that have many audit queries are the ones who are promoted and moved to sensitive ministries. The hon. Ministers and all the members of the Executive are not taking these issues very seriously. They have allowed a culture of abuse of resources to enter our country and, as of now, it has even fully settled. It is now becoming a normal thing and it will be very costly to reverse. You cannot tell me that this problem has just been caused by a few people who are thieves when these same people are our wives, husbands, friends and family members. Therefore, if they are thieves, then we are all thieves. That is the impression our partners will have. 

Mr Chairperson, if the Auditor-General’s Report is voluminous, our co-operating partners will think that Zambians are careless, including myself who is not. We will all pay the price. Therefore, the Executive must be very serious when dealing with the culprits. It is possible for the Government to deal with the culprits. I want to say that our Civil Service is one of the most educated and knowledgeable in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region. I would like to state that, despite those who work in the Civil Service being highly educated, it is the Executive that has allowed them to get away with this kind of abuse. It is not giving them the penalties that they deserve for abusing resources. The penalties are clearly stipulated in the financial regulations of our country. 

Sir, I think, most of the hon. Ministers are really evading their duty to control this financial mismanagement because they are not up to a scratch. I would not allow this if I were a minister. I would rather be fired than fail to do my job properly. I think the hon. Ministers must look at these issues very seriously. The reports that are coming out are not encouraging at all. Therefore, it will take us a long time to build a good image for ourselves. It is very amusing to see the laxity that we notice in these public institutions. When the auditors go to these offices, some documents will be missing and are only found after the report is out and the damage would have been made. I think stiffer actions must imposed on all those that are careless and are a bit relaxed in handling the financial matters of our country. We need to clean and improve our image to the many stakeholders and, indeed, the international community that we co-operate with.

Sir, finally, I want to say that the grant-aided institutions and parastatal bodies that are being audited have revealed serious weaknesses that leave the Committee on Public Accounts wondering whether the Government really knows what is happening in these institutions. Some of these institutions are bleeding. There is carelessness and there are wrong investment decisions which are being made. Some of these institutions are even failing to meet their statutory obligations to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), and yet they are the same ones that are queuing up for finances. It is amusing to see how much most of these institutions owe the ZRA and National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA).

Sir, some of these companies have got well-paid executives, and yet there are no penalties for such people when they fail to deliver. Many companies such as the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia would have been performing well had the Government been supervising them properly. Perhaps, we must partially privatise all parastatals so that the private hand which comes in can provide more vigilance and stewardship in the way our resources are being used. There are many social services that must be provided such that we cannot afford to continue pumping money into the bottomless pits of these parastatals. Our people require sound education and good health services.                          

There is no pride in having a parastatal that is killing you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Hamududu: Times have changed. 

The current scenario is that, perhaps, we must go this route because the amounts that are going into these institutions are colossal. If you look at the amounts of money these institutions owe the ZRA and NAPSA then you will understand why our children do not have books in their schools and why we do not have drugs in our hospitals. Something ought to be done. A decision has to be made because I think that we are using our money carelessly.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to say that the Office of the Auditor-General is doing a commendable job. However, I think that we must use this strength to manage our affairs properly because it remains a mere academic exercise for audits to be done and no action taken. What is the point of having a good report and do nothing about it? It is as good as not spending this money on the office. 

Reports of the Auditor-General are gathering dust and nothing is being done to stop the people that abuse resources. You go further to increase allocations to produce reports that end up on bookshelves. Let this money be expended in a manner that leads to a logical conclusion such that subsequent steps are followed after the report is issued. After the report is issued, the culprits must be brought to book so that the issue of abuse of resources is arrested once and for all and that, as a country, we can have a good image. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, I have taken note of the constructive contribution from Hon. Hachipuka. I, however, have no comment on Hon. Hamududu’s debate. 

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

VOTE 07/01 ― (Office of the Auditor-General ― Headquarters ― K45,203,114,233).

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5, Activity 02 ― Membership to Professional Bodies ― K250,000,000, Activity 03 ― Continuing Professional Development (CPD) and Staff Training ― K650,000,000. With the increase in the budget ceiling, it is anticipated that the Auditor-General’s Office will recruit more staff. However, the allocation for professional membership and the continuing professional development and staff training has remained the same. 

Mr Chairperson, I expect that if they are going to recruit more staff, the payment to the membership …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

What is your question? 

Mr Lumba: Why should the figure remain the same as last year when there will be more staff recruited? 

 The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, this provision is required to meet the cost of subscription and other contributions to professional bodies such as the Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA), Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA) and Chartered Institute of Management Accounts (CIMA) in order to maintain professionalism. 

Mr Chairperson, talking about recruitment of employees, not all of them may be professionals. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 07/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.  

Vote07/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 0707 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 07/09 – (Office of the Auditor-General – Solwezi Provincial Office – K1,949,440,143).

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Chairperson, can I have clarification on Unit 8, Programme 8, activities 01 – Audit of Client 1380 – K27,502,000,  02 – Audit of Client 1346 – K27,298,000,  03 – Audit of Client  1389 – K27,018,500, 04 – Audit of Client 1337 – K17,116,500, 05 – Audit of Client 1329/05 – K9,860,500, 06 – Audit of Client 1380/01 – K10,060,000 and 07 –Audit of Client 1380/02 – K10,530,000. May His Honour the Vice-President help me decode who these clients in Zambezi are so that I know them.

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, The clients under activities 01 to 07 are as follows:

    Activity    Name of Client

01    Ministry of Education;

02    District health;

03    District agricultural co-ordinator’s office;

04    Audit of district administrator;

05    Audit of local councils;

06    Audit of Zambezi High School; and

07    Audit of Zambezi General Hospital.

Mr Chairperson, that is the information.

I thank you, Sir.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 07/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 07/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 08 – (Cabinet Office – Office of the President – K101,701,539,252).

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to present the Cabinet Office Budget for 2011.

Sir, Cabinet Office is the highest administrating office in the Public Service responsible for co-ordinating the effective implementation of Government policies, systems and procedures and the monitoring and evaluation of the overall performance of the Public Service for the efficient administration of the Government. Cabinet Office operates directly under the Office of the President of the Republic of Zambia. 

The status of Cabinet Office and its functions are derived from Article 53 (1) and (2) of the Constitution of Zambia, Cap. 1 of the Laws of Zambia.

Cabinet Office comprises the following offices/division:

(i)    office of the Secretary to the Cabinet;

(ii)    administration;

(iii)    management development division;

(iv)    policy analysis and coordination division; and

(v)    office for the former the Presidents.

Mr Chairperson, the responsibilities of Cabinet Office cut across all the Government ministries and institutions in relation to supervision and influencing the policy implementation process in the Government. Cabinet Office is the policy centre for Government administration and management. In addition, Cabinet Office takes responsibility for ad hoc commissions and new functions that may not have been allocated to any specific ministry or institution. The office also considers appeals and arbitrates between contending Government ministries and agencies.

The following major programmes will be undertaken in 2011 by Cabinet Office:

(i)    General Administration

Under this programme, the following major activities will be undertaken:

(a)    Public Affairs and Summit Meetings

Sir, Cabinet Office will facilitate Presidential local and foreign travel as well as the maintenance and servicing of Presidential aircraft and motor vehicle fleet in order to the President to perform his Executive functions. In addition, Cabinet Office will facilitate the hosting of and participation in both local and foreign meetings.

(b)    Support to Office of the Former President

Cabinet office will provide administrative support services to offices of the First, Second and Third Presidents in accordance with the provisions of the Benefits of Formers Presidents Act.

(c)    State Functions

Cabinet Office will facilitate and organise State functions in order for the President to perform his ceremonial functions.

(d)    Public Service Reform Programme

Cabinet office will facilitate the implementation of various activities of the Public Service Reform Programme. This will be done through the provision of internal management consultancy services to Government ministries and institutions.

(e)    Management of the Policy Process

Cabinet Office will co-ordinate the formation of public policies and facilitate the monitoring and evaluation of policy implementation by Government ministries and institutions.

(ii)    Performance Review of the 2010 Budget

The approved budget of Cabinet Office for 2010 is K78,933,273,206 and it has facilitated the Presidential travels and trade delegations which have benefited the country through interactions with international donors and investors. Consequently, these travels have wooed investors into Zambia and allowed for foreign direct investment.

Sir, the funds being requested for in the 2011 Estimates of Expenditure will be necessary for the effective execution of the aforementioned responsibilities. I, therefore, request the hon. Members of this august House to support these estimates.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, as usual, I wish to thank the hon. Members for the overwhelming support.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 08/01 – (Cabinet Office – Office of the President – Headquarters – K89,424,501,244).

Mr Mukanga Mr Chairperson, may I seek clarification on Programme 2, Activity 10 – Public Affairs and Summit Meetings – K60,000,000,000.

Hon. Members: Page!

The Deputy Chairperson: What page is it?

Mr Mukanga: On page 64, Programme 2, Activity 10 – Public Affairs and Summit Meetings – K60,000,000,000. Last year, there was a provision of K41, 500,000,000, and this year, it has been increased to K60,000,000,000. With this K20 billion increase, what summit meetings are being referred to as extra and why the increase?

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Chairperson, this provision is required to facilitate the travels of the President to attend meetings in the international community. This is the requirement for this provision.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I need further clarification because, at the moment, the President is still travelling. Are there additional trips rather than the ones he has? From the look of things, K20 billion is a lot of money we could have used to improve the poverty levels of the people of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, this allocation will cater for Presidential travels and summit meetings, servicing and maintenance of Presidential aircraft. The increase is due to anticipated increase in this service. As you may be aware, recently, Zambia has been elected to chair the organ on Defence and Security of SADC. Therefore, this entails additional travels. This is why the increase is there.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Captain Moono (Chilanga): Mr Chairperson, may I find out why it is necessary …

The Deputy Chairperson: What item are you referring to and what page is it?

Captain Moono: On page 64, Programme 2, Activity 18 – Evaluation of Support of National Institute of Public Administration (NIPA) – K100,000,000. Why has the Government found it necessary to evaluate the support to NIPA at K100,000,000, and yet according to Programme 3, Activity 01 – National Institute of Public Administration there is no allocation. Last year, this institution was given K100,000,000, but now it has not been given any provision, but the Government wants to evaluate it at K100,000,000. I would like to find out why the change of heart for an institution that has been given money to be evaluated at the same amount of K100,000,000?

The Deputy Chairperson: Ask your question, please.

Captain Moono: That is the question.

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, this is a new activity and the allocation is meant to cater for the costs of undertaking the planned assessment of continued Government subvention to NIPA.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 08/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 08/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 08/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 08/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 08/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 08/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 08/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.
__________

The House adjourned at 1921 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010.