DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 9th November, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ZAIN ZAMBIA PLC SERVICE IMPROVEMENT

150. Colonel Chanda (Kanyama) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when ZAIN Zambia Plc would improve on its services to subscribers in order to reduce on the following:

(i)    crossed lines;

(ii)    break in signal transmission;

(iii)    background interferences; and

(iv)    wave dropping.

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament may wish to note that his question is general and it makes it difficult to pinpoint an area where these technical faults could be related to.

However, allow me to state that ZAIN is committed to improving its network quality and, to this effect, has planned a significant rollout of new sites which will be implemented in stages. The sum of US$ 50 million will be invested by December, 2010.

Sir, the House may wish to note that ZAIN, in an effort to improve service delivery, has engaged its major vendors, Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN) and Ericsson to improve its network quality. Currently, ZAIN is jointly conducting an audit of its network and equipment with an objective to enhance the quality of the network so as to give high standard service comparable to the best on the international scale.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to know, from the hon. Minister, why it is so expensive to deal with ZAIN, when other networks like Cell Z are able to reduce their service charges by 100 per cent. Why is it expensive to deal with ZAIN?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, that is a new question altogether. Therefore, we would need to investigate issues of inter-connection and how ZAIN has responded. In addition, we need to assess how that is impacting on the clients in terms of the cost of the services, among other factors to be considered. We are capable of doing that if only the question would be asked on a later date so that we can give data that is correct.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, which areas of service to be improved upon have been identified by ZAIN since the hon. Minister has mentioned the US$ 50 million which will be spent in this regard?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, again, this is a question that would require collecting relevant information from the service provider so that we can give a detailed answer on the coverage of the country according to the rollout plan. I do not have the data or the facts here with me.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I have observed that ZAIN has been erecting a number of communication tower masts throughout the country in order to improve its services. I would like to find out what the additional services the communities are benefiting from the erection of these masts apart from just improved communication?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, it is very clear to anybody who is accessing mobile connectivity that once the community has been exposed to mobile connectivity, that enhances the community’s access to information. Once information is accessed, it goes towards improving the quality of life of the community.

For example, a rural community can get information on the cost of products on the market. It can also access information on various other aspects which affect the lives of its people in the areas of health, agriculture and many other areas. This enhances the quality of life of a community. That is why this Government is putting a lot of emphasis on ensuring that more people access communication facilities because communication is key to modern living and it enhances the quality of life of people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, following the answer given by the hon. Minister that the information sought in this question is quite technical, I would like to find out from him whether the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA), the authority in this line of business, has set any standards that providers must meet in their continued provision of this service. If so, is it possible for the hon. Minister to present to this House the standard set?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, it is the role of the regulator, ZICTA, to ensure that there is quality of service in the provision of communication facilities by the providers. Clearly, ZICTA is addressing the issues of standards, the benchmarks to be followed and is very closely monitoring the service providers, whether they be data or voice providers, to ensure that they are adhering to set standards according to laid down regulations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

PHELEM O’SHEA HIGH SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION

151. Mr Imenda (Lukulu East) asked the Minister of Education when the construction of Phelem O’shea High School in Lukulu District would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the ministry will complete the existing buildings at Phelem O’Shea High School in the 2011 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker, I would like to have the exact figure of the amount that will be spent on the completion of the school realising that construction of the school started in 2000 and currently the students are squatting at Lukulu Basic School.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, we, as a Government, are aware that the need for the provision of higher education in Lukulu is paramount and I would like to assure the hon. Member that we will do everything possible to complete the structures. 

Since 1964, Lukulu has not had a Government school constructed and, therefore, it is a good thing that, now, this Government is constructing a boarding school worth about K24 billion which will be completed before the end of this year. After that, Phelem O’Shea High School will also be completed because the Government realises the need to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

EMERALDS REVENUE

152. Mr D. Mwila (on behalf of Mr Kambwili) (Roan) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a)    how much revenue the Government had collected from the sale of emeralds by mining companies from 2008 to date; and

(b)    which mines had a higher production of emeralds and what their total output in the same period had been.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, the Government collected a total …

Mr Mufalali’s phone rang

Interruptions

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: … K30,625.8 million from emerald mining companies for the period 2008 to end of September, 2010.

Sir, collections by various mining companies for the same period were as follows:
    
Company Name    Amount in Kwacha

Chantele Emeralds    4,404.7 million

E and M Stori Mining    327 million

Ebenezer Emeralds    212 million

Gem fields Holdings    1,287.6 million

Grizzly Mining Limited    3,240.1 million

Kagem Mining Limited    20,917.9 million

Twampane Luapula Mining    6.1 million

Nazmul Mining Company Limited    230.3 million

Total    30,625.8 million

Mr Speaker, I wish to report that the period 2008 to end of September 2010, Kagem Mining Limited and Grizzly Mining Limited had the highest production as reflected by their sales value of about K131.6 billion and K19.1 billion, respectively.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I would like you to confirm that the mobile phone has been seized.

Mr Mufalali: Yes, Sir.

Mr Speaker: It is confirmed. I have said before that nobody should bring, into this Chamber, among other things, a mobile telephone. All mobile telephones must be left at the desk next to the main entrance. When a mobile telephone rings or misbehaves in any manner, that disrupts the flow of Business in the House and that cannot be allowed.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what measures the Government has put in place to ensure that the sellers declare the actual value of the emeralds for tax purposes since the product is sold outside the country.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, in the response, the values indicate the amounts declared and emeralds are not the only minerals that are exported. In fact, most minerals are exported and the taxes that have been indicated in the response as having been paid reflect the values that were declared.

Mr Speaker, selling outside the country does not necessarily mean that one does not declare.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, I would like to know what steps the Government is taking to ensure that more Zambians are involved in the mining of emeralds and other semi-precious stones.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the licensing authority for mining lies in the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and so, maybe, the hon. Member, at an appropriate time, can direct that question to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. However, what I know is that there is no one who is prohibited from mining emeralds in this country provided they follow the due process of the law which is to ask for a licence and if they qualify, whether they are Zambians or not, it will be issued.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister from which tax among the mineral royalty, income tax and others the K30,625.8 was realised. 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the amount reflected all the taxes payable as far as mining is concerned.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to learn from the hon. Minister which country in the world is the leading importer of the Zambian emeralds.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I do not have that detail with me because it would require scrutinising the export data. However, I would be pleased to dig up the details and pass them on to the hon. Member.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what legislative framework exists to persuade the emerald miners to declare the actual production output and revenues raised.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I believe that the Mines and Minerals Development Act is very clear on the need for all mining institutions to truthfully declare whatever they mine. Similarly, under the income and all other taxes, taxpayers are compelled to say nothing, but the truth about what they are liable for. This is not to say that there may not be cases here and there where people disobey the law. This happens everywhere and the duty of those in authority is to try, as much as possible, to catch those who do not tell the truth and deal with them according to the law.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, is the ministry considering the reintroduction of lapidary equipment for the cutting of emeralds and other precious stones as it was before at the refinery in Ndola?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members have been informed that there are two ministries involved in this matter. Questions like the one the hon. Member has asked, which relate to the technical aspect of this issue, should be directed to the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. Where matters of taxation or revenue collection are concerned, you refer such questions to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister care to indicate the total value of emeralds mined in this country, over the period in question, from which K30.6 billion has been paid as taxes?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, that would require sieving through the statistics in order to compile a comprehensive answer for the hon. Member. I do not have those details at the moment. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa?

Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, my question has been over taken by events.

Mr Sikota, SC. (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, is the Government considering lobbying internationally for the introduction of a system similar to the one for diamonds? Diamonds are accompanied by certificates of origin in order to control and monitor their movements. The introduction of such a system for our emeralds would enable us to properly monitor where they are going and get full value for our resources.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, that suggestion has been taken note of. However, I just want to point out that in the case of diamonds, this system was put in place because of the well-known situation whereby illegal mining of diamonds has been financing conflicts or wars. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

BANGWEULU REGION VESSEL

153. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport why the construction of the vessel for the Bangweulu region stalled in 2009.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, the construction of the vessel for the Bangweulu region stalled due to delays in the tender process. The Government started a tender process in 2009, but it was only completed this year. The House may wish to know that the successful bidder to construct the vessel has since been picked and the contract should be signed shortly between the ministry, on behalf of the Government, and the successful bidder for the works to commence.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport, I would like to find out the seating capacity of the proposed boat to be constructed for the Bangweulu Region.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the boat to be constructed will significantly complement water transportation, especially for the routes from Samfya, Mbabala Island, Chishi and Chilubi Island. At the moment, there is a Government-owned boat called Friendship, which has a capacity of 120 passengers. There is another boat operated by the Zambia Postal Services (ZAMPOST) with a capacity of about 100 passengers. The new boat to be constructed, soon, will have a capacity of about sixty passengers and this will significantly improve transportation from Samfya to Chilubi Island and vice versa.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister indicate where this boat is being constructed and what features it will have that will be better than the current vessels on the said routes that will enable passengers to enjoy decent transport?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member would like to know whether, as a country, we have companies that have the capacity to manufacture boats. The answer is yes, there are companies with the capacity do so. This particular boat will be constructed here in Zambia by a company called Agri-Fuel and Steel Moving.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what efforts are being put in place to try and attract private investment in water transport.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, water transport is like any other transportation business and the private sector is free to invest in the sector. There are many incentives for investing in this sector such as the ones laid down by the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA).

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport how much money will be spent on the construction of the said vessel and when it will be completed.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the details of how much money will be spent can be made available later. However, after we sign the contract, which we hope to sign soon, as we indicated, we shall know exactly when the construction will be completed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the two vessels he has just talked about, the ZAMPOST boat and Friendship, have not been operating for the past three weeks?

Professor Lungwangwa: That is a new submission, which probably, the hon. Member is privileged to have. My officials in the ministry have not informed me to that effect. The harbour master from Samfya was with us this morning, but that information was not disclosed to us. Maybe, he has a different source of information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chitonge (Mwansabombwe): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister indicate where he would get the money for the construction of that vessel since there is no provision in the 2011 Budget.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, of course, we are looking into the matter …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Professor Lungwangwa: … regarding the source of funding.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, clearly it is welcome news to hear that there is a company that can construct boats. However, would the hon. Minister indicate what experience this company has in constructing boats and how many vessels it has, so far, successfully constructed?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kabwata should be happy that I have given him information on companies that have the capacity to construct boats. Maybe, let me, again, mention the name of the company so that he can check for some of the details himself. The name of the company is Agro-Fuel and Steel Moving Company, which has, so far, constructed a number of boats. If the hon. Member cares to find out, this company is here in Lusaka. He can find out its capacity and the different varieties of boats it has constructed. Therefore, all these details can be sought from the company.

I thank you, Sir.

DAM REHABILITATION IN CHIPANGALI

154. Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a)    when the following dams in Chipangali Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated:

(i)    Kanyanja;

(ii)    Rukuzye; and

(iii)    Chipangali; and

(b)    how many dams the ministry intended to construct in Chipata District in 2010.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Akakandelwa): Mr Speaker, the following dams in Chipangali Constituency will be rehabilitated as indicated below.

(i)    Kanyanja Dam is among the structures planned for rehabilitation in the 2011 programme;

(ii)    the rehabilitation of Rukuzye Dam is planned for 2012; and

(iii)    Chipangali (Lumamba) Dam is planned for rehabilitation in 2013.

These dams are among those that were assessed immediately at the end of the devastating floods of the 2009/10 rainy season. The ministry has an on-going programme for dam assessment to make recommendations, maintenance and rehabilitation works.

Mr Speaker, due to budgetary limitations, my ministry has no plans to build any new dams in Chipata District in 2010. As a result of this limitation, priority will be accorded to rehabilitations of existing water infrastructure in all the provinces to maximise the benefits. 

However, the hon. Member may wish to know that the Ministry of Energy and Water Development completed the rehabilitation of Kabale Dam in January, 2010 and Mzewe in August, 2010 in Chipata District.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, so far, two dams in Chipangali …

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised and it better be procedural.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, it is procedural.

Sir, the question which was raised by the hon. Member for Mwansabombwe who wanted to find out from the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport was on where the Government would source the funding for the construction of the vessel. The hon. Minister has failed to disclose that information because there is no provision in the 2011 Budget for it. Is he in order not to tell the House where the money will come from since it has not been provided for in the 2011 Budget? I should have raised this point of order immediately, but you decided to proceed. I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Chipili is implying that I failed to guide you properly. I have said, time and again, that hon. Members who wish to raise a point of order must do so promptly. You must be alert; do not accuse me of moving so fast. That is my job to move fast.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: It is your job to spring into action and call for a point of order. It is too late now.

Mr D. Mwila interjected.

Mr Speaker: Yes, especially if the hon. Minister is the one who is answering.

May the hon. Member for Chipangali continue.

Mr V. Mwale: … have been damaged due to silting and if we wait for 2012/2013, these dams may not be there. Is the hon. Minister aware?

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. The ministry is not aware that a dam has been damaged due to silting. However, the Government will take note of the fact that some of the dams in Chipangali Constituency have been damaged and we will endeavour to undertake rehabilitation works as we have responded in the answer that was given earlier on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, following the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development, I would like to find out when this ministry will, like other ministries, come up with clear work plans showing how many dams are going to be rehabilitated and built in a particular year. At the moment, it is doing nothing.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I have taken note of his concerns and the Government will respond with a work plan as indicated in the budget for the dams that will be rehabilitated and constructed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, three dams requiring rehabilitation in the same constituency, definitely, means there is a problem. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the problem is and why these dams, in the same constituency, got damaged, thereby needing rehabilitation.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is not peculiar to Chipangali Constituency alone that dams are silting. As the hon. Member might be aware, when a dam is constructed, over time, due to the flow of water upstream in the rivers, the water that goes into these dams carries sand. This sand subsequently gets deposited in and fills up the dams. Therefore, this situation is not peculiar to Chipangali alone. The Ministry of Energy and Water Development has plans to rehabilitate other dams throughout the country in this given period.

I thank you, Sir.

_______________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
 Chair]

VOTE 26 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services – K48,287,685,111).

(Consideration resumed)

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Chairperson, I wish to table for consideration the 2011 Budget Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry’s mission is to effectively facilitate the development of the media industry in order to enhance the free flow of information and strengthen the freedom of expression for national development. 

Over the past ten months, my ministry has been following the new path of performance outcome indicators intended to ensure that Government machinery is more responsive to the needs of the people. We, as a Government, have also worked out for ourselves a programme of action to highlight our achievements. These achievements are so many that we have put in place a programme to cover them all. I am sure that hon. Members of this august House know what is happening in their constituencies. The people all over Zambia can also see and have seen all the developments in their communities.

Mr Chairperson, the various developments and projects we have so far highlighted and many others which we will continue focusing upon include the many road constructions, rehabilitation and reconstructions across the country, schools, both high and basic, built and renovated and hospitals and health centres constructed across the country. This is besides the 2.6 million metric tonnes of maize which the almighty God has blessed Zambia with. We must thank God for this bumper harvest of a supernatural magnitude. I urge all Christians in this nation to offer thanks to God by having prayers at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross for what God has done through his servant, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: This bumper harvest needs to be spoken about, Mr Chairperson, and it needs to be seen by all of us because it is both a historical achievement and a definite indication that Zambia is surely moving towards food security. There is a lot of food for all the people in Zambia. Thanks be to God for the Government’s policies that God has, indeed, given us. God honours authority.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, many other things must also be spoken about. One such very important matter is the fight against corruption. The fight against corruption must not be cosmetic and selective, as we are seeing, today, when newspapers such as The Post newspaper write about corruption selectively. It is important to be truthful about the fight against corruption. If, today, you tell the nation that the Second Republican President, Mr F. T. J. Chiluba, must be probed for money laundering, what about Mr M. C. Sata whose revelations of money laundering are very fresh ...

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The hon. Minister knows that he should not bring people who cannot defend themselves in the House into the debate. 

May he continue and avoid mentioning people who are not in the House.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, thank you for your guidance.

Mr Chairperson, it is really important that there are no double standards in the fight against corruption. If one is wrong, then the media must support and ensure that it talks about corruption on both the Ruling and Opposition parties. It is called ethics and professionalism when a newspaper reports without favour.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has been involved in media reforms over the last ten years. This has led to the creation of modern media in the public, private and community-based sectors. It is partly for this reason that we brought to this House the Copyright and Performance Rights (Amendment) Bill, the Independent Broadcasting Authority (Amendment) Bill and the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (Amendment) Bill. All these Bills are meant to facilitate the growth of the media sector, enhance the free flow of information and increase the freedom of expression in our country.

Mr Chairperson, the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) has played and will continue to play a critical role in highlighting the Government’s achievements in the various sectors of the country. Our people need to know what their Government is doing in making their lives more meaningful and enjoyable. This Government intends to work to ensure that the lives of all its people are comfortable and ZANIS is there to tell the people what the Government is doing to make them proud Zambians.

Mr Chairperson, besides providing credible information to the public, my ministry has, over the past ten years, been transforming the media environment in Zambia. This transformation has seen an upsurge in all the three sectors of the modern media industry, that is the public, private and community-based sectors. These reforms are deliberately aimed at benefiting all Zambians. In particular, we are determined to ensure that the needs of all consumers of media products at all levels of our society are fully met. It is partly for this reason that we brought to this House the many amendments to the above-mentioned Bills in order to ensure that we meet the needs of all the people in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, to say we live in a global world can only be truer today than ever before. For instance, the entire world is moving towards digital migration. This is a technological innovation and process that will globally move us away from the now increasingly outdated analogue system to digital broadcasting by 2015. This is a highly exciting global development and Zambia is looking forward to it. It is a change which is in accordance with the international treaty signed by all countries, including Zambia.

There are several advantages for moving towards digital broadcasting. For example, there will be fewer or no ‘cold wars’ fought over broadcasting spectrums among States or broadcasting providers. However, for countries which decide to lag behind the inevitable change, there will be serious consequences after June, 2015, a deadline which has been set by the International Telecommunications Union to which Zambia is also affiliated. 

Mr Chairperson, to respond to the urgency and complexity of this movement and migration project, a Migration Task Force was formed among sister ministries. This task force is now fully operational. The team has the responsibility of coming up with a well-thought out, well-structured and well-staged migration process that will ensure that Zambia does not lag behind international trends.

Mr Chairperson, I am glad to inform the House that, in the ministry’s bid to strengthen the media sector and people’s access to information, the Zambia Daily Mail commissioned a modern and high-speed printing press in Lusaka on 27th October, 2010. This was after many decades of using old and archaic equipment.

Mr Chairperson, this is a great achievement which did not happen by accident, but as a result of a visionary and focused leadership of both the Board of Directors of the Zambia Daily Mail and the Government, working closely with the newspaper management.

Sir, before buying the state of the art printing equipment, the Zambia Daily Mail faced a lot of problems in using an old reconditioned machine bought in 1996. It was common for the Daily Mail and its sister paper, the Sunday Mail, to hit the streets late due to frequent breakdowns of the old machine. This is now a thing of the past.

Mr Chairperson, I am sure that hon. Members of Parliament have noticed the beauty of the new-look Zambia Daily Mail, a copy of which I will lay on the Table.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: I am sure people are already buying it in droves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: There are indications that for many businesses, the Daily Mail is the newspaper of choice. This is good for the bottom line of this newspaper.

Mr Chairperson, the K14 billion new printing press can print up to 40,000 copies of the paper per hour. This translates into reduced printing time and early delivery of the newspaper onto the market. 

Sir, the purchase and the installation of the new printing press at the Zambia Daily Mail is a landmark achievement that requires additional support for the momentum to be sustained. It is part of the Government’s determination to ensure that the public is well informed. 

Additionally, the new machine will also enable the Zambia Daily Mail to embark on a host of other business activities as the horizon is open for innovation.

Mr Chairperson, further improvements in the media sector planned for 2011 include placing all the Zambia National Broadcasting (ZNBC) Channels, both radio and television, on satellite. Currently, only the ZNBC Television (TV) One is on the Multi-choice Satellite platform.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has, therefore, provided about K13 billion for the rental of satellite space and the purchase of new Frequency Modulation (FM) radio transmitters. The new FM transmitters will eliminate the problems of poor reception in many parts of the country. The presence on satellite would mean that the ZNBC signal can be picked anywhere in the country, energy permitting.

Mr Chairperson, I know that for the most part of 2010, radio listeners in rural Zambia have been unable to get radio reception due to the breakdown of some shortwave transmitters. The repairs of the transmitters are on-going and service in starved areas will soon be restored.

Mr Chairperson, various other initiatives will soon be implemented when we have completed the development of a comprehensive national communication strategy which is under discussion in the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, media law reforms will continue to be part of the development process in 2011. My ministry has set some funds aside for the operations of the forthcoming Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) Board. 

Mr Chairperson, my Government is mindful of the importance of the continued reform process of having the IBA Board in place as soon as possible so that there is clear autonomous and smooth regulation mechanism for the broadcasting sector. This is part of the broad reform process which the Government is committed to.

Mr Chairperson, the 2011 Budget has also taken care of copyright law reforms by introducing the hologram, a security sticker that will differentiate genuine products from pirated ones. It is my hope that this move will not only reduce piracy, but also help the Government to collect tax from the creative industry that is big and continues to grow and, at the same time, ensure that the income of people engaged in this industry are not only improved, but also assured that their income will come to them. This is as opposed to the current trend that is beset by piracy.

As a way of ensuring the speedy flow of information to the population, my ministry is determined to continue connecting ZANIS district officers to the wide area network. This will quicken the process of accessing information to and from the rural areas. Zambia is moving towards an information-rich society.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to assure this august House that the Government will continue to pursue the mandate of a developmental State.

It is in that spirit that I recommend that the House approves the budget for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services for 2011.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Chairperson, as an hon. Member of Parliament representing a rural constituency of Zambia, may I, once again, lament the ineffectiveness of your ministry in one aspect.

I recall vividly that almost all parts of my constituency cannot access the services of Radio Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: This has been going on for over ten years and I am beginning to wonder why some parts of this country cannot access Radio Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, this ministry is key in promoting the developmental projects of the Government. Therefore, if it is not functioning effectively, that concerns all of us. We know, as a matter of fact, that this Parliament appropriated a lot of money towards the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Therefore, virtually every constituency in this country has projects that have been carried out effectively through the utilisation of the CDF. 

Sir, one wonders whether these projects are ever highlighted by the Government through the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services. We wonder whether the Government values the development that it is carrying out. What is wrong?

Sir, however, for today, I wish to support the Vote for this ministry for the simple reason that there is a provision for procurement of FM transmitters for districts. My district, which has no luxury of accessing Radio Zambia, hopes that this time around one FM transmitter will be made available.

The only radio communication we get in Lundazi District is from Malawi and, believe you me or not, we access community radio stations from there too. We wonder why our national radio network cannot be accessed.

It is the responsibility of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services to ensure that it highlights the developmental projects which the Government is carrying out. It is important for the people to know what their Government is doing. It is for this reason that other people are, day in and day out, publishing falsehoods that the Government is not developing this country when, to the contrary, everybody can see developmental projects taking place.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: You, yourselves, are to blame for this state of affairs.

May I also state one thing which has to do with the publication of provincial newspapers. I know that each province, if not most of the provinces, used to have provincial newspapers. What has become of these provincial newspapers? It is these provincial newspapers, my colleagues, on the right of the Chairperson, that can be used to inform and educate people about what the Government is doing. You are shooting yourselves in the foot by not resuscitating these newspapers. Even last year when we were debating this Vote, I stated this point. I wonder if any of the provincial newspapers is operational. If it is not, perhaps, the hon. Minister, in his reply to the issues being raised, will be able to touch on that issue. Please, it is important that you educate Zambians on everything that the Government is doing instead of responding to comments from people who reside in Lusaka only. You must transmit information of what the Government is doing in all parts of the country. If you do that, you will not have a difficult campaign in 2011.

With these few words, I support the Vote for the ministry.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for affording me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote. 

Sir, I want to say a few things as an hon. Member of Parliament and also as a member of the Committee on Information and Broadcasting Services which listens to many submissions from both the ministry and other sectors in this industry. The hon. Minister was not involved, although some of us were, in 1990, almost twenty years ago, in bringing multi-party democracy to Zambia. I recall receiving a phone call at 03 00 hours in the morning while in Oxford and being told that multi-party democracy was coming back to Zambia and that I had to return to the country to fight in the elections. The next morning, I went out and bought some shorts from Marks and Spencer to equip myself for the hot weather and also bought an air ticket for my return. 

Mr Chairperson, those of us who were involved at that time knew what we understand by multi-party democracy. It does not mean merely a dispensation were there is a pluralism of parties. It means the dispensation were there is a pluralism of estates, if you like, of course, the separation of the three classic powers plus the press or if you prefer the Chinese. There are five of these independent arms of Government. Within each of these arms of Government, we expect diversity. We do not expect the press to be part of a political party. 

Mr Mukanga: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Scott: One expects the press to fulfill its independent duties. One expects diversity, another expects controversy while the other one expects it to be a positive thing. One does not expect the press to be something to which one folds up one’s arms and says, “Oh dear, we do not have unanimity on the subject of how well the MMD is doing now in 2010 and on what is corruption or who is corrupt.” You expect diversity in any society. That is one of the definitions of a pluralistic State. It is a characteristic of a democracy and not merely that you have opposition political parties which you have to contend with on a rather unleveled playing field. That is not a sufficient definition of a democratic society. 

Mr Chairperson, what one is looking for and what I am still looking for and I will be happy to resign when I find it again, is the reversal of the One Party State in action with regards to the media. I have mentioned in this House before that my own family newspaper was nationalised by the Government for monetary purposes because it was a loss-making newspaper and I do not regret its nationalisation. However, the Zambia Daily Mail with its new printing press which is, perhaps, its first brand new one since my father bought the first one in about 1962 or 1963, needs to be re-privatised for the purpose of returning to multi-party democracy dispensation. Surely, we should be returning to a free and independent media and not pump in taxpayers’ money into keeping loss making newspapers alive …

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Umvela Mwila vamene akamba Guy Scott iwe!

Dr Scott: … so that the election campaign for next year can be pursued in prettier colours which can make it possible for you to see who you are really looking at. 

There was a very alarming phrase that was used by the hon. Minister. It was, “Promoting freedom of information for national development.” What on earth does that mean? Freedom of information is the free flow of information between people who want to remit information, those who want to transmit it as well as those that want to receive it. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: Promoting freedom of information is not only for national development. That is not the only reason one would like it for. We would also like to know what is happening to the Chilean miners and that has got nothing to do with national development. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Dr Scott: Freedom of information should translate into us hearing opinions about why the Zambian mines close down their rescue teams which is an issue which is connected to the mining accidents like the one which occurred in Chile. There are many things we would like to know about. We have ambitions to know about pop stars and the opinions about the governments of certain African countries carrying out genocides against people in Darfur and whether or not they are being helped by the Chinese. This is all part of the business that the media is supposed to concern itself with. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: If it happens to be wrong information, then it can be corrected. If it happens to be damaging information, we will allow laws of libel or defamation to come into play as is the case in other countries. Using national development or some kind of shorthand for censorship, you seem to be saying, “Our job, as a ministry, is to inform the people about the great doings of the Government.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: That may be the job of one or two Government newspapers …

 Mr Mukanga: Yes!

Dr Scott: … and one or two Government broadcasters, but it is not the job of the entire media sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: It is not the job of all the media institutions in the country.

The media can quite happily contain elements that have nothing to do with real or imagined national development.

Mr Mukanga: Ba Mulongoti, mulesambilila!

Dr Scott: It is very disappointing that, after twenty years of seeking to promote,  …

Interruptions

Dr Scott: … yes, to promote freedom of the press because it had never been entirely free even in federal times, things are not any different. One would trust that it is now time not to revert to federal times, but to move forward to new times where there will be more freedom. 

Mr Chairperson, on the subject of media reforms, one is a little bit worried to see on page 341 of the Yellow Book, Programme 9, Media Law Reforms, Activity 02 – Stakeholder Consultation an indication that seems to suggest that stakeholder consultation has been completed. There was money allocated to it last year presumably for one meeting of the Media Council of Zambia (MECOZ) or something, but now there is no money for consultations in the 2011 Budget. Instead, there is a provision for a sensitisation campaign. Now, these are presumably campaigns for the hon. Minister’s ministry of bumper harvests as well as thanks giving ceremonies. The hon. Minister should sensitise us on what he has decided is good for the sector. 

I barely want to commend him because he has asked for K20,000,000.00 for the publication of Bills so that we can comment on them. It will be very nice to have Bills to comment on just like we have commented on some in the past. We have had stakeholders from different parts of Africa coming to our Committee on Information and Broadcasting Services to comment on various Bills like the Independent Broadcasting Authority Bill and Zambian National Broadcasting Corporation Bill.  

Shortly, we expect a new Bill on censorship to come on the scene. Various stakeholders will come to also comment on it. They will all be against it and make it clear that they do not like the way this Government is treading because it is becoming more authoritarian, intolerant and more like the one we took over from nineteen years ago, which at least welcomed the publication of The Post newspaper before it died. The One Party State allowed the publication of a newspaper that was extremely controversial in those days as it is now. 

Mr Chairperson, when hon. Members of your Committee come to report on this Bill to the House, they will say that the people they spoke to did not want this Bill enacted into law and, obviously, there will be a division. When it goes through, as is usually the case, we will be back in the dark ages under whoever happens to be the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services. I do not know whether this portfolio will be given back to Hon. Mulongoti or not, but we will be back in the bad old days.

Laughter   

Dr Scott: Mr Chairperson, we have achieved little progress in enhancing democracy in this country and it is a real shame that we should be looking for ways to go backwards. I was going to ask the hon. Minister, but I do not have to because he volunteered the information, about the arrangement of transmitting signals using the satellite bounce back system. A signal is sent to a satellite in orbit and the satellite bounces it to dishes or whatever unit is used for receiving signals in districts and then the signal is fed to various frequencies in those districts. This system is for ZNBC. 

Mr Mubika: Finally!

Mrs Phiri: Continue!

Dr Scott: This system does not transmit the signal for other electronic media organizations, but only for the ZNBC and it has been put in place at taxpayers’ expense. Presumably, after many years of people complaining of lack of radio signal in various places, it has now been installed because there is a general election next year. This is basically meant to give a monopoly to the MMD, which was mistakenly called a movement for democracy twenty years ago. This party will have a monopoly of speaking to people out there on ZNBC. I have heard nothing about encouraging or giving the private sector access to this satellite signal. We heard no assurance that we are not simply going backwards. 

Mr Chairperson, just to talk about a few other small items, let me turn to Programme 11, Activity 04 – Foreign Tours − K699,141,600. The allocation has been more than doubled. Why are there foreign tours if the Government is busy in Zambia explaining what it has done? We keep on hearing that there is a lot of development taking place. Who is going and to where, on these foreign tours? Has this something to do with digitalisation? If that is the case, this money should be allocated to the digitalisation budget. Has this anything to do with development within the sector? It looks to me like a highly dubious budget item. 

Mr Chairperson, on Programme 10, Activity 02 − Parliamentary Sittings − K28,800,000, the ministry is, obviously, expecting a great increase in issues on Parliament or whatever it is up to, because the allocation has gone up from K19,200,000. There is an English saying that, “The last refuge of a scoundrel is patriotism”. It applies in Zambia in a slightly different way. The person claiming to be interested in national development and stability is the one who should be suspected of having an ulterior or hidden agenda because that is the cloth in which people hide. I am very glad the hon. Minister has not mentioned stability because that is the other mark of illegality. This country had its worst riots and violence when the press was entirely tightly controlled by the Government. It was only then that pressure releases were generated and created to allow people to express themselves in a non-violent and non-troublesome way. 

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services Vote. I want to mention here that I support the Vote, particularly, because I note there is an increase from K31, 717,087,749, last year, to K48,287,685,111 this year. This is an increase of 16.5 per cent and I think that is very important.

Mr Chairperson, I think in this era and age, nobody would doubt the importance of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services, especially that we have already entered into the campaign era where people are being misinformed. Therefore, the importance of this ministry cannot be doubted. Like Hon. Chifumu Banda, SC. mentioned, I think there is a need for the ministry to consider, as a matter of urgency, ensuring that people in rural areas, where the Government is very popular, are adequately informed about what is obtaining in this country.

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, I do not want to be swayed by hecklers, especially that I know that they are cowards who are living here today and will not be here next year.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, it is very unfortunate because the culture that has evolved in politics in Zambia in particular, is quite worrisome. A culture has evolved among politicians who are able to stand and go to many radio stations in Lusaka to condemn President Banda for going around Zambia to inaugurate programmes, …

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Chimbaka: … but then come again and say he is doing nothing.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Chimbaka: You can see the culture that has evolved. People are not able to tell the truth. The Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services is key in informing the people of Zambia about the realities that are taking place in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: It is a fact that nobody is going to erase. I do not want to behave like a heckler or a street boy. What I am talking about here is the truth and the people are listening.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, it is quite very important …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 Hon. Members, there is only one person who is speaking. If you want to debate, stand up at the right time and we will give you the opportunity to do so. Do not talk from your chairs because that is a sign of cowardice.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Can the hon. Member, please, continue.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, for example, let me take the case of the Luapula Province. In Luapula Province, the people are inadequately informed in the sense that there is only one true community radio station which belongs to the Catholic Church, Radio Ichengelo. In most cases, this radio station is inadequate and the coverage area is within Mansa and part of Samfya. Its signal cannot be picked in Kawambwa and Nchelenge. I thank Hon. B. Y. Mwila for coming up with a radio station in Nchelenge. This radio station is informing the people in the area and parts of Chienge adequately and factually. It is in this view that I want to urge the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services that it is important, in this era, to allow as many people as possible to open up radio stations which reasonable and level headed persons are going to use to inform people about the massive developments that are taking place all over and Bahati, in particular.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, for example, I have often said that there is this radio station where you have to plead in order for you to use it. However, it is easier for the Patriotic Front (PF) people to use it. They are even given days to use it.

Hon. PF Members: Questions

Mr Chimbaka: It is very difficult for me to use it because I have to pay to use it.  

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: This is a fact. I have spoken to the priest in-charge and I have mentioned it time and again. Those officers are being corrupt by accepting bribes and, as a result, many people struggle to use that radio station. 

Dr Scott: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, I would like the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services to expedite action so that this radio station …

Dr Scott: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Dr Scott: Mr Chairperson, you cautioned us against debating while seated. You said it was a cowardly act. So, I have decided to stand up and raise a point of order to the effect that is the hon. Member debating, at the moment, who may wish to be a minister, very shortly, and will probably be disappointed, in order to accuse people who are not here of being biased, bribed and corrupt, especially as it concerns the Catholic Church? Is he in order, Sir? 

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order raised reminds the hon. Member debating that if he has to mention specific names, he must prove his point. It would, therefore, be important for the hon. Member who is debating to veer off the route of labelling allegations that do not have documentary evidence and debate the Motion in general terms if he has to talk about the wrongs he sees in society. 

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, I have always stated facts and I cannot apologise for that. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chimbaka: It is not about pigs. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Does the hon. Member have evidence about what he is saying? Could he explain it? If he cannot, then he will have to avoid this subject. 

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance, but I will go ahead. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chimbaka: Sir, it is not about killing pigs, but talking about dissemination of information, which is very important. 

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: Killing pigs?

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk about the issue of ZANIS.

Hon. Opposition: Member: Inkumba, in Bemba. 

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, last year and this year, we have had a lot of programmes and tours of important people to the Luapula Province, Mansa and Bahati Constituency, in particular. 

I would like to state that I have always been disappointed by ZANIS in Mansa, in particular. This is because even though there are high profiled people visiting and you tell the officers at ZANIS about ensuring that the coverage of such events is done, it does not happen. It is very rare to see what is happening in the Luapula Province being beamed on the ZNBC television or Muvi TV. It is as if there are no people charged with the responsibility to capture such happenings for the people of Luapula and Zambia at large to appreciate it. 

Mr Chairperson, it is in that vein that I say that ZANIS, in the Luapula Province, is doing very little to inform the people on what the Government is doing in this era. I, therefore, want to say that it is very important that something is done to ensure that our boys at the ZANIS offices in Luapula realise the importance of information dissemination. 

Mr Chairperson, if you have keenly followed the development of Zambia, you will agree with me that very little has been said about it. Take for instance the massive development at Kariba Dam. Look at what is obtaining at Kafue Gorge and just here in Lusaka where we have the construction of Chainama Hospital. If you go to the Luapula Province, there is a new airport terminus. There are high schools, clinics and roads being worked on, and yet very little is being said about all this. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: None of these developments are being captured for the people of Zambia to see, and yet people are always reading stories which are fake, unfounded and which do not add value to gold. Even the people that read these newspapers in which these stories are published wonder why ZANIS has failed to inform the people about all the developments taking place. 

I would like to agree with Hon. Banda who said that there is a need to bring back Imbila Mukwai, so that abantu besu balebelenga muci Bemba nangu muciaushi. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Chimbaka: It is very important. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 
 
Mr Chimbaka: I am sorry, Sir. I will interpret.

Mr Chairperson, it is very important that Imbila, a newspaper that had been printed for ages be brought back so that people should be fed with the truth about the development of Zambia. People are tired of reading newspapers which have fake stories and always write to the contrary of what is really transpiring. 

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, yes, the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services is doing a good job and the same can be said about the Ministry of Education. However, it is the wish of the people that instead of His Honour the Vice-President being the only one to talk about the developments taking place, everyone should be able to stand up and talk about it. The propaganda of mud-slinging and telling people fake stories is sinking.  

Mrs Phiri: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka: If a teacher stands up in a classroom situation …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I hope that the point of order is procedural. 

Mrs Phiri: It is procedural, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: You may proceed. 

Mrs Phiri: Mr Chair, I rise on a very serious point of order on the speaker on the Floor who has actually confirmed that he is not a member of the Patriotic Front (PF), but the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD). Is he in order to use the word ‘fake’ in this House when it is not parliamentary? I need your serious ruling Mr Chair. 

Mr Munkombwe: He is not Mr Chair, but Mr Chairperson!

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order talks about the hon. Member on the Floor as having confirmed belonging to a particular political party. The Chair did not hear it unless conclusions are being made.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson:  Order! 

As regards the word ‘fake’, I will request the hon. Member to avoid that word. 

You may proceed. 

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, I thank you. I withdraw the word ‘fake’ and replace it with ‘unfounded truth’. 

Mr Chairperson, it is very important …

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, I know what political fanaticism can do to people. 

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: I know what it can do and I do not want to be swayed by it. The people are saying that it is important that every ministry comes up, in addition to the daily tabloids, with newsletters which will be disseminated to the people so that they appreciate the bumper harvest, for instance. 

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: The people want Hon. Mutati to come up, as hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, with a newsletter which will sufficiently inform people about how Zambia has been ranked tenth in the business world.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Chairperson, it is very important that these tabloids begin to flood the streets of Zambia. As a teacher, I appreciate the importance of newspapers. However, little do people understand that newspapers form a critical source of information which can aid the preparation of examinations for pupils in grade 7 and even students in higher institutions of learning. This is because much of the information in social sciences emanates from these papers which they should read. 

The danger is that if we allow information which is not factual to trickle down the heads of the Zambian students, they are going to believe that whatever they read is the truth. This is especially because some speakers are consistent at perpetuating lies – I am sorry. I would like to withdraw the word ‘lies’ and substitute it with ‘unfounded truth.’ They cement unfounded truths and I know that, in communism, it is a strategy in politics. This is because once it is sunk in the minds of the people that A + A is zero, then they will believe just that. 

Mr Chairperson, it is, therefore, this scientific approach of politics that we require for people to get information that will enable them make very good decisions even as we go for elections next year. This is because politics are actually not only about comparing personalities, but also the quality and value in what the people are reading. That is very important. 

Mr Chairperson, it is for that reason that I think that the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services should go an extra mile in procuring more cameras. As Hon. Cifire goes to her constituency with cameras, I, too, would want to go to Bahati Constituency just as Hon. Chongo would want to go to Mwense Constituency with a fleet of cameras. Even Hon. Musosha would also want to go to his constituency with a fleet of cameras so that they capture the clinic at Lubende and everything there so that our people are able to read about it.

 Mr Chongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Sir, I would like to end by saying that, please, allow us also to hire cameras at a recognised fee. This is because what happens is that if you want to be captured even for chintobentobe, you have to hire personnel from the ZNBC in Kitwe. Thereafter, you have to feed them and provide them with transport. Now, since we are very inadequately pocketed, we would want the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services to ensure that Luapula is combed through and that information is adequately beamed and written about for the people to appreciate and read that there is change as it will not be hidden. Come 2011, the people will appreciate the change and they are going to go by it.

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for allowing me to debate the Vote on the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to tell the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services that my expectation of his general policy debate was much higher than what he delivered this afternoon. My reason for saying that is that I feel that he actually veered off substantive issues of his ministry’s budgetary allocation to start asking us Christians to pray for the Head of State, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda. Even when he did that, he forgot to also request the Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus alike to pray for the same man and also to pray for leaders of other Opposition political parties such as Mr Hakainde Hichilema, Mr Sata and some of our own here , Mr Charles Milupi and Mr Sakwiba Sikota, SC. We also have a Vice-President of the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD) in this House. Therefore, my expectation of the ministry’s policy statement was that he was going to be all-inclusive.

Sir, bouncing off from there, I want to demonstrate that the ministry, though charged with important responsibilities such as providing legislation for information and broadcasting, the hon. Minister needed to be a bit more inclusive. His failure to do so is a mirror reflection of how his ministry has actually directed its employees, through the Zambia Daily Mail, Times of Zambia and the ZNBC, to be exclusive of other players on the political scene.

Mr Chairperson, this is a very bad habit coming from a person such as Hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha, a man of the collar and of God, to ignore the fact that Zambia is actually accommodative of other religions. Therefore, he should have asked the Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus to also pray for the 158 of us who are in this House. He should have actually indicated that he would pray for these organisations where the media is domiciled to see if they could give equal and unbiased coverage to everybody.

Mr Chairperson, regardless of what I think has been a very uneven or biased coverage by the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services, I want to say, in categorical terms, that harsh realities do come whether you like it or not. Harsh realities are coming in 2011 whether there is a decision to black us out or not.

 Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: I have been gifted by God with this mouth I am using to speak, right now, to reach out. Believe me, people are hungry to hear what some of us have to say.

 Mr D. Mwila: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: Whether the ZNBC is going to close us out or not, we have stopped caring.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: What we know is that, coming out of the Chilanga By-election where we had zero coverage, the people of Chilanga decided that they were going to vote wisely and they showed the MMD a red card.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, that was a signal of things to come. Whether the Government likes it or not, harsh realities do come in fours and fives. Come 2011, the year of the Lord, the Zambian people are going to make a statement to indicate that they are, actually, constipated by the Government’s rule of the last twenty years.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, it is said that, “Information is power.” As such, in relation to what Hon. Chifumu Banda, SC. said about the need for Chasefu to be connected to the ZNBC, I tend to think that the act of rural areas being cut out of the information system is deliberate. This is because that is the ace that the MMD Government has had under its sleeve to collect votes because the people out there are less informed. 

Suffice to say that we have found a formula which is called catenaccio in football. This is a type of soccer where you ring your opponent around circles. At the moment, you can easily see how the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services veered off the substantive issue of his ministry to start talking about prayers for one person as though this one person is greater than this country. There is no one person who is greater than this country. Collectively, all of us can never be greater than this country and, therefore, we need to make sure that the human rights that are endowed in us are fully discharged in order for us to be heard. We have a right of expression and so we must be heard. Let the people out there decipher whether what we are saying is for the rubbish pit or to keep for their later use when the time of reckoning comes.

Mr Chairperson, I see that, in his statement, the hon. Minister made mention of private newspapers. I think that it is a little bit astonishing and surprising that a whole Government can dwell on one private newspaper along Bwinjimfumu Road. That is a private Company. It has the right to cover who it wishes to and you cannot take it to task for that. You cannot go to the newspaper and say, “Why are you covering us negatively?” 

Mr Chairperson, I think that whilst there are ethics in the media circles, the way I run by private business should just remain within the realms of legality. I can choose who to and who not to cover. So, for the hon. Minister to actually feel tickled by the fact that The Post newspaper does not cover the MMD favourably, because he mentioned them, is astonishing.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, I did make an order against the hon. Minister bringing in his debate people who cannot defend themselves. Now, you are going against that ruling again. Would you continue without doing that.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, take my apology for that and I withdraw that unreservedly.

The hon. Minister spoke about how he feels Zambians are very comfortable with the status quo, but I would like to speak for myself, through you, Mr Chairperson. I am not comfortable because I am living in turmoil. I am living with the fact that I am unable to be heard on the ZNBC even if I subscribe a K3,000 every month through the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) bill, for the ZNBC to function. I think that this is extortion. It is extortion because everybody, especially those who subscribe money, must be heard. This is because we made a law in this House that people must subscribe K3,000 to the ZNBC regardless of what one’s monthly income is, but as long as one uses the ZESCO facility, the subscription will be embedded into the ZESCO bill for people to pay.

Mr Chairperson, if one did a simple computation, assuming that there are 1 million subscribers that the ZNBC has pasted onto the ZESCO bill, it means that, every month, it should be netting in the range of K3 billion. Now, imagine the ZNBC getting K3 billion for me not to be covered. That is a great exception. Whether what I want to say does not sound good in the ears of the ZNBC or not, I must be given an opportunity to be heard.

Sir, I will give you a classic example of a scene that happened in reality. With due respect, I am glad His Honour the Vice-President has actually woken up.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: At the Livingstone International Airport, His Honour the Vice-President, who is here in this House, can defend himself …

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, you are drawing somebody who is seated quietly listening attentively into your debate.

Hon. Opposition Member: But he is listening!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Will you, please, avoid doing that and proceed with your debate.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, at Livingstone International Airport, at 0800 hours in the morning, someone who is very high ranking in this Government decided to tell the nation that I had taken over the United Party for National Development (UPND) party and my colleague here was my vice-president. This was broadcast just in a split of a minute by one very senior member of the Government. This was feasted on by the ZNBC, Zambia Daily Mail, Times of Zambia and all the organs that are operating as organs of hegemony for the ruling MMD.

Sir, I am trying to illustrate to you how unfair and biased the system currently is. I will keep giving you the chorus that harsh realities come in fours and fives.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: After I heard this, my colleague and I went to the ZNBC to ask the then Director-General who was acting at the time that a very senior high ranking official of the MMD Government spoke about me and I, too, wanted to respond and be heard on the ZNBC. She told me that this was not a serious matter. However, in my view, Mr Chairperson, I thought this was a serious matter because if I was not a committed member of the UPND, I would have been history by today. The House is aware of how one former Minister of Finance and National Planning, under the MMD Government, tried to show his democratic right to say he was the best candidate to lead that party had his jacket mutilated at a funeral.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: How can someone from the ZNBC tell me that the senior high ranking member of the Government was just joking, therefore, it was alright?

However, this senior member of the Government flew from Livingstone to Chipata and, at the airport, he decided to use the same media to tell the people that the things he had told them about this young man, Nkombo, were just a tip of an iceberg. He said, “I am going to tell you the whole scheme of how Mr Hichilema has been toppled out of the UPND party.” This is one man taking advantage of the media that Hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha runs.

Then, he flies, because these people do not walk, to Lufwanyama …

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … where a chief asked him, “Did you see the road as you were coming?” He said, “No, I flew to this place”. The rest, the devil lies in the details. However, whilst he was in Lufwanyama, the people who had never even heard of me were being told that, “Now, I am giving you the full dossier of this young man.” We are talking about propaganda from the hon. Minister and our colleagues here …

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Kunda!

Mr Nkombo: He is the culprit and a senior member of the Government…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
  Chair]

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was busy reciting the great trek made by one very senior member of the MMD Government travelling from Livingstone to Chipata then to Lufwanyama, where he was asked by the chief on the state of the road infrastructure. He said to the Chief that, “We flew to this place.” This is because they do not drive, but always fly.

Therefore, each time, the people in this Government speak about the developments through this media, sometimes, it leaves a lot to be desired because much as these traditional rulers and the employees of these media institutions seem to be on their side, the contrary is what the truth is.

Sir, I will give you an example of how frustrated the employees of these Government-engineered institutions are. The employees will come to pick stories, but they will tell you that when the editorial board sits, your story will be thrown into the garbage bin. Let me remind you that we know all these gymnastics. However, I will repeat what I said …

The Deputy Chairperson: Please, do not repeat. You can only emphasise.

Mr Nkombo: I want to reiterate that the truth has no disguise. Whether you like it or not, the truth will sprout out of a concrete wall or floor …

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … because the truth is the truth. Whether this Government decides it is not going to inform the nation correctly or it will mislead them, the Zambians are now wiser.

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: The Zambians are now much wiser. 

For example, why should a senior ZNBC or Zambia Daily Mail employee, ring me at six hours and ask me about what comment Dr Guy Scott made about the relationship that the two parties have together, and yet they are not party to that relationship? Why do they want to headline news out of issues that disparage us?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the truth of the matter is that, even in my own home, my wife and I do not think alike, but still remain Mr and Mrs.

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo: As it is, the arrangement that we have with our sister party, the PF, is not between two leaders.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Those who think it is between the two leaders are going to be shy forever more.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: This is because this arrangement is for the greater Zambian population.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: That is what is giving these people on your right hand side goose pimples, Mr Chairperson.

With these few remarks, I wish to thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this chance to debate the Vote on the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services.

From the outset, I wish to inform you that I am a very disappointed Zambian with the way the MMD Government has run down the ZNBC.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: For the first time in the history of broadcasting in this country, some areas have gone without radio for the past ten months. 

Mr Chairperson, broadcasting started in 1941, but was only confined to the Lusaka area and, at the end of the World War II in 1945, broadcasting was spread to all parts of the country and since then, there has never been a breakdown of transmission or signal sending to all parts of the country, except this time from February, 2010 to date. For ten months, fifty-five districts out of seventy-five have been cut off and have not been serviced by the ZNBC.

Mr Chairperson, currently, only seventeen districts are being serviced by the ZNBC Radio 1 and 2 and the rest are in total darkness. Imagine this is in a developing country where you have kept fifty-five districts in darkness. For your information, in developing countries, the radio is very effective in terms of informing, educating and even entertaining the people. The people in the remote parts of the country depend on the information from the radio and it is only the ZNBC which is received countrywide as the rest are community radio stations which are in selected areas. It is only the ZNBC, which is a public broadcaster and covers the entire country whose service has been denied to the people of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, in developed countries, and it is a pity we are in a developing country, the hon. Minister responsible for broadcasting would have resigned …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: … for failure to take a radio signal to the people of Zambia.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Shikapwasha, resign.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I would like to state that the allocation of Programme 13, Activity 02 – Procurement of FM Transmitters for Districts – K3,992,398,502 indicated in the Yellow Book is nothing, but a drop in the ocean. How many transmitters, hon. Minister, can you purchase for fifty-five districts using this amount? For your information, a transmitter costs about 35,000 Euros and so, how many can you get with K3.9 billion?

Mr Konga: Give the answer.

Mr Kapeya: Find the answer. They will be few, but you are talking of servicing fifty-five districts. Mr Chairperson, even though the Government has proposed to go for FM transmitters, which is, of course, the right decision, it must be mindful of the type of FM transmitters it will go for. It should look at four parameters.

Mr V. Mwale: Mudala, kuli ma experts ku ZNBC to handle that.

Mr Kapeya: The first is transmitter power, the antenna height, the antenna gain and there must be no obstruction. There should be absence of heavy obstacles in areas of operation, especially where you target your signal. These four parameters are very important. When you bring in these transmitters, ensure that you engage experts and I am happy to mention that the current Director-General of the ZNBC is a qualified engineer. Do not bring in bush engineers because you are very good at that.

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: I know this Government very well. It will sideline good engineers and go for bush ones because they are cheap, but will do a bad job. You should engage expert broadcasting engineers. I have just said that the Director-General of the ZNBC is an expert engineer and I hope and trust that you will depend on his expertise.

Mr Chairperson, you should ensure that the transmitters that you procure stand the test of time. They should be those which will send a signal to a distance of about 200 km because Mpika is the largest district in Zambia and borders with Samfya, which is 200 plus kilometres away. In the East, Mpika borders with Chipata which is about 230 km before you reach Nabwalya Chiombo and in the southern direction, it borders with Serenje that is about 198 km away. In the northern direction, it borders with Kasama which is about 110 km away.

Mr Chairperson, there is a need to go for powerful transmitters and you also need to bring in what we call booster transmitters for you to do a good job, otherwise it will be as the status quo. I would like the Government to continue with the shortwave transmission. The last time I debated, I said that it would be easier before the FM transmitters come in to go for a shortwave by getting a continental transmitter and ITC antenna from America.

Mr Chairperson, I was very disappointed when the hon. Minister stood there and said it had taken the Government ten months to repair a transmitter. Can it take ten months to repair a transmitter?

Laughter

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, you do not repair a transmitter, but just replace parts.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: You just replace the electrical parts which have been burnt. It is not mechanically done, please.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I would like to request the hon. Minister that when they go to purchase the so-called FM Transmitters, they should, please, look for countries that produce good ones. Do not go to any other country other than Germany. There is company in Germany known as Rod and Swartz that manufactures transmitters.

Mr V. Mwale: Balemilishamo, mudala!

Mr Kapeya: For the antennae, the same country has a company called Cathrine which produces very powerful antennae.

Mr V. Mwale: Balimilishamo sana tamwabalaba nanomba.

Mr Kapeya: You will do good to acquire these transmitters from Germany worth 35,000Euros.

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: I now come to ZANIS. The hon. Minister said that there is a need to have coverage of news to all parts of the country. In my district, we receive nothing from ZANIS. Mpika, which is the largest district in Zambia, has only one reporter for the Zambia News Agency (ZANA), but how do you expect a single reporter to cover a district such as Mpika? 

Apparently, I note that in this year’s Budget, the hon. Minister has included a very important item on under Programme 13, Activity 03 – Procurement of Fly Away Kit – K600,000,000. I hope and trust that the purchase of this equipment will enable public media personnel to do a good job in districts like Mpika. However, if there is only one ZANIS officer in Mpika District, believe you me, even this equipment will not make a difference. May I request that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning finds additional sources of funding in order to help the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services purchase more transmitting equipment.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, let me say that many people think the ZNBC is deliberately selective in its coverage. However, I want to emphasise that workers there are professionals. It is the interference by the Government …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: I will repeat. Workers at the ZNBC are professionals who would like to do their assignments professionally, …

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: … but the Government is always interfering with their work.

Mr Kambwili: You worked there, Mudala. Bebe!

Mr Kapeya: As a result, no modern Zambian would like to associate himself/herself with the shoddy performance of the ZNBC. Believe you me, the workers at the ZNBC all want to do their job accordingly.

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: The problem is that our colleagues in the Ruling Party are very good at bamba zonke and always want to be the ones on television. The Government must bail out the ZNBC from the heavy tax debt of K87 billion that it has at the moment. How is the institution expected to perform well with such heavy debt? If the Government pays off this debt on behalf of the ZNBC, Zambians will be happy to even start paying as much as K10,000 as television licence fee. Muvi Television subscribers are paying K12,000 per month, but they are not complaining. People complain about the K3,000 television licence fee they pay to the ZNBC because of non-coverage of other areas by the public media. News on ZNBC is always about the MMD Government and that is why nobody can accept to pay more for the licence fee. 

Mr D. Mwila: For what?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I therefore, appeal to the Government to streamline the operations of the ZNBC. Once this is done, Zambians will support and help the institution to operate perfectly. The Government, so far, has been a let down because of interference in the operations of this institution and this is a fact.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Chairperson, the media, as the fourth wing of the State, is a very important component of our democratic dispensation. Therefore, the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services, whose budget we are debating, is critical to the free flow of information.

Mr Chairperson, I notice that there is a substantial increase in the budgetary allocation for the ministry from K31.7 billion, in 2010, to K48.3 billion for 2011. This translates into an increase of 52 per cent, which is way above average. I hope that this money will be put to good use. 

Nonetheless, it is important to point out a few flaws in the way the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services is run. Of particular interest is that we have turned the public media, both print and electronic, into propaganda tools for those in the Ruling Party. The idea that they should disseminate Government information is good. However, the public media should learn to separate Government information from propaganda meant for parties.

Mr Chairperson, those in the media tell us that their role is to inform, educate and entertain. It is on the role of informing that I wish to raise a number of points. Those who are informed have, on the Floor of this House, clearly talked about the abysmal coverage of the radio signal in this country. The hon. Member for Mpika Central has already stated very clearly, and I thank him for that, that fifty-five districts out of the seventy-two that we have are outside coverage area of the radio signal. 

Mr Chairperson, when I heard the hon. Minister state that the public media should report on development, I realised that we, in the rural areas, are not covered because there is no development taking place in these areas. So, there is nothing for the public media to follow in rural areas and report about. There are even no projects to officially open or launch. I recently went through a by-election in Luena Constituency. During this election, there was nothing else to report about apart from the polls themselves. Even when the President or Vice-President came, there was nothing to commission because there is no development taking place in Luena. 

Let me talk about the areas where the whole country can benefit from a free and professional media. We all relate to the men and women who work in the public media in one way or another. I am focusing on the public media because that is where I have shares as a citizen of this country. The public media is funded by taxpayers’ money and, therefore, it is only right for us to expect that there should be free coverage of all parts of the country. The information disseminated to the public domain should enable all of us in this country make informed decisions.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about facilitating free flow of information and enhancing freedom of speech in his policy statement. That is all very well. In giving specific examples, he talked about the need for the media to talk about the bumper harvest. However, there are issues related to the bumper harvest that we need to address. Interestingly, the total quantity of this bumper harvest ranges from 2.6, 2.7 and 2.8 million tonnes, depending on who is talking about it. Even the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services does not know the extent of our bumper maize harvest. Assuming it is 2.7 million tonnes, the media should talk about it. 

However, the way hon. Members on your right have turned the public media into propaganda media is disheartening. In trying to portray the positive side, we are losing sight of the other issues that we should address for this country to move forward. A person who always wants to be praised will not advance, but one who looks at his/her mistakes being pointed out and correcting them is the one who moves forward. 

Mr Chairperson, we would like the media to tell us the exact number of tonnes of maize that we produced last season and the problems associated with this bumper harvest. Is it not in the interest of this country to know that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) or whoever is buying this maize is paying K65,000 per bag? At the current exchange rate, that is US$ 15 per bag. Therefore, a tonne, which is twenty bags, is costing US$300 and because of transportation from the remote locations to here or anywhere else, we can add another US$100. 

Therefore, in order to export this excess 1 million tonnes of maize, which costs US$400 per tonne, we need to know what the buyers out there, such as in Zimbabwe and South Africa, are willing to pay. Since we get the information on the internet, we know that they are only willing to pay US$200 per tonne. So, where is this Governments going to find the extra US$200 per tonne to subsidise the export of the excess ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, you are belabouring your subject slightly out of topic. Can you come back to the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services?

Mr Milupi: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for that guidance, but let me say that these are the issues which the media must focus on, especially the public media so that we know the problems associated with the bumper harvest for us to correct them and know how to lower the cost of production and make it more efficient. To the contrary, we make the media concentrate on the so-called positive aspect. Every hon. Minister who stands up here talks about the bumper harvest. They avoid talking about issues …

Mr Sing’ombe: Masholi!

Mr Milupi: … and the public media is going along with them and we are saying we are not serving ourselves well as a country.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister also referred to the issue of the fight against corruption that needs to be talked about. He digressed to talk about money that should have been moved from here to there, among other things. Yes, we want to know more about corruption, but we should not only be told about the so-called small issues, which this Government is tackling. We must also know about the issues which the Government is trying to avoid such as single sourcing of contracts which should not have been single sourced. We want the public media to tell us so that we, as a nation, can make up our minds on whether we need to address those issues or not.

Mr Chairperson, in rural areas such as where I come from, in addition to the fact that rural areas are not covered for technical reasons as already discussed, there is also a need to focus on what needs to be done to help the people in rural areas. You will understand, as a person who has to visit many parts of this country, that I have recently come from a neighbouring constituency, …

Mr Sing’ombe: Mu mwabutata.

Mr Milupi: … in the Western Province. There is an outbreak of anthrax. This is a serious impediment as many herds of cattle are dying, but have you heard anything from the media? No, it is of no interest to them.

Mr Sing’ombe: Balobezi!

Mr Milupi: What is the Government doing about that? The farmers need to know that people in neighbouring districts are already experiencing that problem so that they can take preventive actions, but that is not happening. Please, stop using the media for propaganda purposes. 

As a result of the attitude that the Government is showing, it has polarised the media in this country in the sense that if one wants to be covered in the public media, there are certain things that he/she has to say. Castigate a president of the Opposition, you will hit the headline, praise the ruling President, you will hit the headline. That is the polarisation that is taking place and, as a result, this is flowing into the independent media. The private media also has to display the attitude of praising certain political parties. This is the polarisation and is a follow up on how you, in Government, are polarising the media. If you want to come back, please, inform, entertain and educate and the only way you can do that is to allow for professionalism. Those who have debated before me have rightly said so.

The employees in the public media are professionals like their counterparts in the private media. Where the system breaks down is where they gather stories, but do not publish them in the manner that they should because you now want to slant them to suit your purpose. 

I have been interviewed before and quite clearly, when you give a one hour interview, they will pick where one has praised or castigated so and so. These are the issues that are highlighted. That way, we are not serving our country well. 

This K48.3 billion which your ministry has been allocated, hon. Minister, must be used to ensure that we have a free and professional media service in this country.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to make a contribution to the debate on this very important Vote for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services.

Mr Chairperson, I was Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services and Chief Government Spokesperson before. I would like to challenge anybody who can say to me that, at any point or day, I went to any media house to give instructions on what to do.

Interruptions

Mr Mulongoti: I am speaking from a position of authority. I am not like Hon. Dr Guy Scott who denies that he killed some pigs.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: I am speaking with authority.

As an hon. Minister, I am on record as, also, having granted so many licences for both radio and television. The reason I did that was to promote democracy because that was the wish of the people of Zambia. I do not think that any hon. Member will be more honest by saying that they have no freedom of expression because they do not have access to radio and television. Most of you avoid going to radio and television stations.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mulongoti: I would like to say that I am one of those who have been to radio stations around the country. Why has this been so? It is because I value their existence while some of you do not. However, when you stand on the Floor of this House, you want to condemn the ZNBC, Times of Zambia and Zambia Daily Mail newspapers. 

Please, understand that journalists follow those who make news. They will not follow you if you do not make news. Therefore, do not complain if you do not make news. When you go to your constituency, you carry journalists with you and they will report what you do there, but some of you are so scared that if you carry a journalist, they will report how much people do not like you there.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: This is a fact. I understand why you want to stand on the Floor of the House and condemn the media because you are so scared of those young journalists who come in the premises of Parliament to interview you. I see you running away. I operate from here.

Mr Chairperson, as an hon. Minister, when I got to the ministry, I discovered that there were quite a number of challenges both in the print and electronic media. Some of the equipment, like Hon. Mwansa Kapeya said, has been used for years and has outlived its usefulness. However, the problem is that we had the difficulty of re-investment. Some of the companies have a blotted labour force. The people they employed a long time ago could not be declared redundant because they had no money to pay them off. 

The House did not give the print and electronic media houses sufficient money to enable them retrench some workers who, today, if we checked in some of those media companies, 60 per cent of whatever income they generate goes into consumption because they have to pay the people that they employ. It is strange that, as we debate this budget, I have not seen a single hon. Member who is condemning the request for an amendment in the budget to support the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services. This is a House that gives money and if it does not give money, where do we expect the ministry to get the money from? 

Mr Chairperson, some hon. Members of Parliament like to refer to small issues that are written about them and want to bring them to the House. You hear them say that somebody went to such and such a place and made a statement about them. I do not think this House is for that purpose. This House is intended to help this Government to develop this country. If you want to bring issues that have to do with personal political issues, I do not think it is fair.

Hon. Mwansa Kapeya   …

Mr Kapeya: Mukwai!

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: … worked for the ZNBC for a very long time as a director. The problems that are there are part of the creation of the management of the ZNBC which he was a part of then.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: I do not think that it is okay for him, today, to talk about how good the transmitters are in other countries when he was once a director at the ZNBC. Why did he not use that knowledge to make the corporation function in a much more professional way? I do not think it is fair for you to criticise the corporation now because when you were there and had the opportunity to change things, you did not.

Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Kapeya: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply in order to claim that the wrong doings of the ZNBC, today, were my creation when I left that institution in 2005? Sir, I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order has been debated in an explanation form. However, let me also take the opportunity to say this to the hon. Members on my left that when you are debating, your colleagues on my right keep silent and listen to you. It is not like they do not also feel pain about some of the comments you make. We must be magnanimous enough to listen even to things we do not like to hear. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: It is their turn to respond to some of the statements made by hon. Members on my left. Let them also state their position so that the country hears a balanced position about these issues.   

The hon. Minister may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, before the point of order was raised, I was responding to the fact that ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mulongoti: ... we were treated to a debate here on where to get good spare parts and other things. Now, all I am saying is that Hon. Kapeya was part of that management and should have used that specific knowledge that he is lecturing Parliament on to change things at the ZNBC. 

Ms Cifire: Hammer him.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, we would be expecting too much if, for instance, we wanted those who preach hatred and condemn even good things to be given prominence to speak to the public using a public avenue. I do not think that this is the way we should operate. We must build one united country and we can only do so if the information being given to the public is intended to build society. Some people have very bad language such that to expose them to public media would be a danger to society.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: I even wonder what the people say to themselves when they listen to some of them speak on Parliament Radio. I wonder what the people say to themselves when they hear such leaders scream and preach hatred. There are people who are pretending, today, that there is no development in this country. What does that imply? Where do you live for you not to see schools, hospitals and clinics being built and roads being constructed? Are you so dishonest that you cannot even admit that you can see certain things? Is it possible that you can be given space in the media when you are denying the existence of a road that you have seen before? How do you expect journalists to follow you when you just tell falsehoods? 

Mr Kambwili: Ngawalishiba ifyo abena Zambia ba kupata iwe!

Mr Mulongoti: Hon. Kambwili, you are the worst.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: These are the kinds of people that the ZNBC, sometimes, avoids. 

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: This is because, whenever they speak, there is so much bitterness and hatred in their speech such that it is not safe for any journalist to quote them. 

Mr Chairperson, this budget must be supported. We need to give this ministry more money so that it can cover the farthest points of this country. More money is needed for transport and sustenance wherever the journalists from public media go. It is not enough to condemn them. You must encourage them. Some of you have never even entered the studios of ZNBC, but you want to be experts here in condemning what you have not seen. Some of you have never been to the Zambia Daily Mail and Times of Zambia offices to appreciate the difficulties they face. If you visited their offices, you would be able to give them some support in this House. However, because you do not understand and appreciate the work they do, the only thing you can do is to complain that whenever you go to their offices, they still do not quote you in their stories. The question is: What do you talk about? If you talk about things that are not quotable, I do not think it would be safe for them to follow you and quote you. 

Mr Chairperson, I would like to plead with hon. Members of this House that if they want the public media to be robust, they should encourage and support it. How do you expect the public media to feel when, every time you stand up, you condemn it? Do you think that it can support you … 

Hon. PF Members: It is you who condemns it.

Mr Mulongoti: ... when you keep condemning it?

Let me just say that all those of you who talk so much about the press are the people who do not use it properly. That is why the journalists do not even quote you because they know that you are full of bitterness. Life is not all about bitterness, but seizing the opportunities that are there for you to develop at personal, constituency and national levels. If, every time journalists meet you, they find you complaining, are you showing leadership? We want you, when you carry the press to go and tell them, “Listen, the direction we want this country to follow is this. Our colleagues have done this. If ever we take over, this is what we intend to do.” 

Mr Kambwili: Kuti wabaleka iwe?

Mr Mulongoti: You should not cry like children all the time. All the time you are given space in the press, you use it to condemn individuals. That is not fair. We would like the press to feel proud when they meet you fully knowing that they have met hon. Members of Parliament who understand and talk about the development of this country.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mulongoti: If you want to politick at a level which is meaningless, you have a platform because we have created an environment for the existence of so many media institutions which you can go to. They will be happy to see you and will even quote you. They will be very happy to quote whatever you say which is full of bitterness. We cannot allow the public media to carry such stories.

You are not being sincere to yourself if you think that when you form Government, you are going to allow the press to keep looking for faults in you such that it will keep condemning you. I know for sure that some of you are so intolerant. You cannot even sit to listen to a debate that you do not agree with.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: What will happen when you take over? What will happen is that you will be imprisoning journalists. We can see that level of intolerance right in this House from you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: We would like to assure you that this is a very responsible Government. This Government is democratic. It has encouraged radio stations, newspapers and television stations to operate properly. If this was a bad Government, it would have banned most media institutions which are currently operational. I do not think some of you would have subscribed to that kind of approach. I am proud of the fact that I am part of this Government which has created an environment in which if you watched some television stations, you would wonder if you are in Zambia. There is so much freedom. You listen to radio stations, everyday, where there are debates going on condemning a number of things around the country. Nobody is being harassed or imprisoned except for those of you who want to get in trouble with the law all the time because your conduct is not good.

Laughter

Mr Mulongoti: As far as we, as a Government, are concerned, we are very democratic. We would like to encourage freedom of the press. We will continue to encourage freedom of the press, but that freedom should be coupled with responsibility knowing fully well the dangers involved in allowing a press which does not consider the security of the country. In fact, politicians are the worst enemies this country can have.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear1

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, I support this budget. In fact, we should encourage that more money is made available to this ministry. Thereafter, the people of Zambia should be told how their money is being used by this Government. It is unfortunate that some feel hurt when they are not quoted by certain media because they are not newsworthy. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members of this august House who have contributed so effectively that they have given me and my ministry food for thought in areas of positive contribution.

I thank, in particular, Hon. Mulongoti for his contribution, considering that he understands this ministry well.

Mr Chairperson, I understand the contribution by Hon. C. K. B. Banda, SC., the Member of Parliament for Chasefu, on the need for us to cover the rural areas to enable the people to know about all the developmental projects that are taking place. I would like to assure him that this budget is meant to answer his cry so that he can fulfill the mandate that he has been given by the people of Chasefu who also need to know about what is happening in their constituency and the rest of the country.

It is equally the Government’s passionate desire to ensure that the publication of provincial newspapers continues. It is our hope that we can get resources in due course for us to ensure that such publications are provided to our people in the rural areas. I thank Hon. C. K. B. Banda, SC. for his contribution.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Dr Guy Scott said a number of things. He talked about the need for a free and profitable press as opposed to one that always dwells on the taxpayers’ money. I want to assure you, Hon. Dr Guy Scott, wherever you are …

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, it is normal for people on your left to run away when we reply to them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: On a point of order, Sir.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I want to assure Hon. Dr Guy Scott …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Ba Reverend mwayamba ubufi?

Dr Scott: Is the hon. Minister, a Reverend and man of the cloth in order to use the fact that this is a radio transmitted debate to imply that I have left this debate in a cowardly fashion by saying ‘wherever you are’ and ‘the opposition run away’ in an underhanded way?  I am amazed that he has not got round to the issue of pigs yet.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: The Hon. Member for Lusaka Central has already made it clear that he is present in the House. 

Will the hon. Minister continue.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I do understand that Hon. Dr Guy Scott is in the House and that his feathers have been ruffled. 

Sir, Hon. Dr Guy Scott raised the issues regarding free and profitable organisations. I want to assure him that the Zambia Daily Mail purchased the state of the art printing press without the intervention of the Government at a cost of K14 billion. This is the kind of innovation that the public media are engaged in.

For example, the ZNBC has bought up to 49 per cent shares in Multi-choice Zambia. These are some of the innovations that the management of these organisations are involved in. These public media institutions are not non-profitable. All they need is capital investment to be availed to them by the shareholders just like other organisations.

Mr Chairperson, as regards the issue of freedom of information for national development, is it not every nation’s need that national development embraces every area of life? Issues of politics, finance, water and road construction, to mention but a few, are all issues of national development. Therefore, national development is not specific to one aspect of life. It is broad and includes the happenings in both the Ruling and the Opposition parties.

It is important for people to know whether they are developing both politically and democratically. Our sentiments, therefore, should not be narrowed down to one particular area.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is not authoritarian as Hon. Dr Guy Scott asserted. The MMD Government has ensured freedom of expression and the free flow of information in the country. What I am saying is plain and clear for all to see. 

Mr Chairperson, at the moment, there are more than forty-eight radio stations that are operating and the Government has not closed any one of them despite the fact that some of them have fabricated stories against it. 

Sir, the Government has allowed the free flow of information to enable people make informed decisions. This includes the flow of information even on television. More television stations are being opened and they are running to ten. There are seven, at present, which are fully operational. As I speak, there are one hundred applications for radio broadcasting licences. 

Despite some radical newspapers opting to ignore to write about development projects and preferring to castigate the Government through their interviews with people who talk ill of the Government and the President, the President has allowed for the flow of information in the country. 

Mr Chairperson, you cannot accuse the Government, as Hon. Dr Guy Scott did, because it is not authoritarian in dealing with the said issues.

Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about the satellite signal. Hon. Dr Guy Scott asserted that it is for the ZNBC and is to be used for the MMD campaigns to the exclusion of the private sector at the cost of the taxpayer. I would like to hold a small one minute workshop for the debater because he should have known the fact that a number of people have been allowed to use the satellite signal. Muvi Television is one of those media institutions from the private sector that has been allowed to use the satellite signal.

We have an open sky and there is no limit to anybody who wants to apply to go the satellite way. There are many applications in the country, at the moment, for that provision. The debater should have known these facts rather than misinform the country.

Mr Chairperson, private sector users can also apply and negotiate with those that own satellites. On our part, as a Government, we think that we can provide a better service to the people of Zambia by going satellite. It is an investment that is important for our people.

Mr Chairperson, let me also turn to the issue of the K700 million which is allegedly for dubious expenditure. I guess there shall be a time when a question regarding this issue will be asked and explanations given. We have the explanations.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank Hon. Chimbaka for his debate that advocated for an increase in the budget for my ministry. Yes, we need more money to ensure that information flows to all the people in Zambia. 

We accept his suggestions and we will look into the issue of a radio station that is only of service to one group of people when its mandate is to cover a community. It is important that we review the operations of radio stations whose coverage is not in accordance with the undertaking that they gave to the ministry. 

Sir, I must apologise for the complaints against ZANIS in many areas. The issues regarding ZANIS are of a financial nature. We need to provide more money to ZANIS so that it can respond to the needs of the districts where it is found.

I, therefore, want to assure Hon. Chimbaka and Hon. Mwansa Kapeya that ZANIS will perform better if we allow this budget to go through. It is, therefore, important for us to support this budget.

Mr Chairperson, there were also other areas that were covered by different hon. Members. For example, Hon. Garry Nkombo was very bitter in his debate and exceedingly angry, particularly with regard to the Office of the Vice-President.

My simple advice to all young politicians is the importance of them not to become bitter with older politicians because they will reap what they sow in future. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: This is the formula that God has created. Therefore, it is important that we tone down on the things that we say against older people. Young politicians should respect grey hair because it is very important for them to move forward and learn many things from those who have it. If there are any difficulties, dialogue so that you iron out those differences amicably.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Nkombo complained about biased coverage by stating that the Chilanga By-elections were blacked out by the ZNBC. I was surprised by that because, as I watched the news on the Chilanga By-election, he was in full view. I saw some commotion, jostling and a close-up shot of Hon. Garry Nkombo on the ZNBC television. I wonder what blackout he is talking about when a camera was there to ensure that the Chilanga By-election was captured. It is wrong to tell people about a blackout which did not happen because Hon. Nkombo, at the Chilanga By-election, was captured and this was shown on television. Maybe, he wanted more of himself to be shown. There is nothing wrong with that. He should go and ask the personnel at the ZNBC who can work out something to cover him. The ministry does not give the ZNBC directives on who to cover.  It covers everybody.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: You can question it, but we, as ZNBC, are disciplined.

Interruptions

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Whilst you question, it is important for us to know that we want discipline in our studios. We do not want an hon. Member of Parliament to go and beat up reporters in the studios like it happened on Muvi Television.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear, Kambwili!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: We do not want that to happen.

Hon. Government Members: Kambwili, Kambwili!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, we cover everybody, including all political parties, at the ZNBC. Maybe, certain newsprints have blacked out the UPND, but ZNBC has not.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Everybody else covers the UPND although we have seen that it has deliberately been blacked out by a daily newspaper. It is the publishers of that newspaper that you should go and talk to about biased coverage because we, at the ZNBC, are free to cover whatever the UPND is doing. This is because we know that this is for the development of the country.

Mr Chairperson, in all this, the most important thing is to speak the truth to the people so that they understand which way they are going. 

Mr Kambwili: Finish kabili!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: I have not finished yet, I am still winding up.

Mr Chairperson, there are also a few things that I need to comment on in order to ensure that people understand what the Government is doing. Truth is very important. Yes, Hon. Nkombo said, “Truth cannot be disguised”. That is quite true. However, truth is a double-edged sword. So, when Hon. Nkombo talks about finding a formula, of course, we as the MMD Government know it, but we cannot disclose the formula we are going to apply because we want to safeguard it. Therefore, this issue about the PF and UPND which you say is like a relationship between a man and woman, should be left outside this House in order for us to ensure that we do not talk about things like homosexuality.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about the issues that were raised by Hon. Kapeya. When I spoke to him earlier, before his debate, I asked him whether he was going to discuss any issues so that I could prepare myself. He promised not to by saying, “No, my brother, I will not debate about you.” Now, all of a sudden, I saw him debate in fury and severe agitation. I want to calm him down by assuring him that we, as a Government, are doing everything possible to ensure that the rest of the country receives radio communication. It is also important to understand that we are moving from analogue to digital technology. In so doing, the radio shortwave is being repaired now and it is going to continue to operate until we have digitally migrated. 

However, I want to mention that the difficulties that Mr Kapeya and everybody else is facing are owed to the fact that analogue equipment spare parts  are no longer stocked on the market. They have to be manufactured. The timeframe, from the date of manufacture, within which to receive that spare part is as much as four months. So, when an order and payment is made, it takes four months for a spare part to be manufactured such that by the time you receive it, it would, definitely, have been ten months after ordering it.

Interruptions

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, whilst Hon. Kapeya is complaining about the status quo, I want to tell him that, yes, Hon. Mulongoti was right in his debate. Hon. Kapeya was a director at the ZNBC and he should have put strategic plans in place to inhibit such problems from happening in the future. This would have ensured that this problem did not occur.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: On a point of order, Sir.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, the onset of this problem means that the people in previous managements did not do anything about it. For example, if ten years from today, Zambia goes to beg for food outside this country, it means that people who would have been running the country would have not dealt with the issue of food security.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kapeya, also spoke on a number of issues.

Mr Kambwili: Ikaleni!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: He spoke about where we should buy spare parts for the ZNBC transmitters and how we must ensure that the organisation runs smoothly. I want to inform him that we have very qualified professionals at the ZNBC who are going to deal with these issues. The Director-General at the ZNBC is an engineer by profession and there are many other engineers there. Therefore, as a ministry, we trust that they will buy the right equipment and store it properly. We trust them because they are Zambians and, by virtue of being Zambian, we know that they are patriotic enough to provide the Zambian people with the quality service that they need.  So, please, let us not discourage the people that are going to do this wonderful job because it is very important to ensure this work is done effectively.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kapeya also talked about how spare parts cannot be repaired, but only be replaced. However, the replacement of a spare part is meant to repair something. When you remove a part and replace it with another, you would have repaired something.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I have been flying aeroplanes for thirty years. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: I know what all these radio modulations and signals are. 

Mr Kapeya: You can remove them!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Yes, you can remove and replace them. That is repair because you are carrying out repair works. 

Mr Milupi: On a point of order, Sir.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Therefore, it is important to understand so that we do not mislead the people that workers at the ZNBC do not know what they are doing because they know what they are doing.

Ms Cifire: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, let me also address some of the issues that were raised by Hon. Milupi.  He talked about the abysmal coverage of radio in rural areas, but I have made many ministerial statements in this august House to explain why the rest of the country cannot be covered. 

Similarly, there was an issue of Frequency Modulation (FM) that was raised. I would like to mention that the FM radio is a project that has been going on. As I mentioned in my ministerial statement, so far, seven districts have been covered and we will continue to cover the rest of the districts. Indeed, the fifty-seven districts are also going to be covered as soon as funds are released. 

Furthermore, Hon. Milupi lamented that no development is taking place in rural areas. Please, let us not misinform the people. It is wrong for him to misinform the people because his constituency is a beneficiary of a school that is being constructed at a place called Makuku.

Ms Cifire: Hammer!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I challenge him to deny that a school is being constructed in his constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, he should not misinform people that nothing is happening in rural areas. It is in his constituency that a school is being constructed and, among rural constituencies, it is, probably, only his constituency which has 100 per cent cellular phone coverage.

Mr Milupi: It is not being provided by the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, as a head of a party, it is better to be truthful rather than misinforming the people. Let him not misinform the people.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, misinforming the people is corruption.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Ema generals aya!

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, Therefore, it is important, when you stand on the Floor of this House, to ensure that you speak the truth. If there is development in your area, no matter how small it is, it is development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear,

 Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: You cannot come here and say that there is no development because, then you will be misinforming the people. Consequently, since the people in your constituency can see a school being constructed, they will start to question whether you are a reliable hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the issue of corruption that was raised by Hon. Milupi. I entirely agree with him, but we must all fight corruption. I urge everybody to fight it. All the newspapers must report it. It does not matter whether the person being covered is your future preferred presidential candidate, do not make that person look good when he is corrupt and engages in money laundering. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: You should ensure that you expose him because this will help the people of Zambia to make a decision. Therefore, do not cover somebody who is corrupt on one hand and say that there is corruption on the other hand and justify that by saying that the media can choose on what to report. That is not supposed to be the case. Everybody is supposed to fight corruption. If money is given out to voters during an election, that is corruption and it must be exposed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, if K5 million or K5, 000’s are given out to voters, that must be exposed because it is important that corruption is fought.

Interruptions

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, there was an issue that cast aspersions on the media. Hon. Milupi said that the media was not reporting about a cattle disease outbreak in the Western Province.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha:  I want to defend the media. The media picks up information from all over the country. There was a council meeting, over the weekend, in Mongu which Hon. Milupi attended and there was no report about a cattle disease outbreak there.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: So, from where would the media pick it if it is not reported in a council meeting, but instead he comes to say it in the House? 

Interruptions

Mr Milupi: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Milupi: Mr Chairperson, I wish to raise a point of order. Is this hon. Minister, who is a reverend and, therefore, should preach love and peace, in order to mention that there was a council meeting in Mongu where the outbreak of a cattle disease was not mentioned when that meeting he has referred to had a one-item agenda to discuss an audit that was made by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing? Should he not be replying to the fact that the cattle disease, such as anthrax, is a very serious outbreak and that systems of Government should be able to detect such issues and report them so that people can take preventive action? Is he in order to trivialise such a serious matter?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The hon. Member has adequately debated his point of order. The hon. Minister may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I want to thank you for your guidance. As I wrap up, I just want to correct one issue. The Government has gone ahead and established the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development. This means that the Government is serious on matters to do with livestock and because it is, the vaccination of cattle in the Western Province is a continuous process. Therefore, any hon. Member of Parliament who feels that there is a problem in this regard can go to the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries Development or even use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to deal with the cattle disease. So, hon. Members should use their facilities rather than come and tell people the things that they are supposed to do as hon. Members of Parliament. 

Mr Chairperson, finally, this has been an interesting debate on my ministry and I want to ask the hon. Members of Parliament, like Hon. Mulongoti has said, not to condemn all these wonderful people that are working very hard at the ZNBC. They have brought you TV 2, ZNBC TV 1 and you are going to have FM Radio that will cover the whole country and enable you receive signal from a television free to air. All these things are qualitable. I also want to tell you that The Zambia Daily Mail and The Times of Zambia are completely moving in a different sphere and they are using the money they are obtaining in a wonderful way. Therefore, do not castigate them. They are good people. They are your Zambian children, who live and work for the good of everybody.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

VOTE 26/01 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services – Headquarters – K8,300,368,799).

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 2, Activity 06 – Public Functions and Ceremonies – K51, 500,000. I have observed that this is an important budget line and I want to know why it has been reduced from K195 million to only K51,500,000?

Sir, secondly, on Programme 9, Activity 04 – Revolving Fund − K950,000,000. Why are we increasing it to K950 million when it is a revolving fund? I also seek clarification on the same programme, Activity 07 – Care and Support – K99,602,000. What is this Care and Support all about? Does it have to do with orphans or the blind?

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Ms Cifire): Mr Chairperson, Programme 2, Activity 06 – Public Functions and Ceremonies – K51, 500,000, is a provision for the ministry to participate in public functions such as the Public Service Day. The variance is due to the fact that the ministry will not participate in the other public events such as the Agriculture and Commercial Show in 2011.

Sir, on the Revolving Fund, this provision is for loans for members of staff. The variance is as a result of the increase in the number of officers requesting for loans.

Sir, Programme 2, Activity 07 – Care and Support – K99,602,000 on Activity 07 − Care and Support, this provision is for support to HIV/AIDS infected members in terms of nutritional food supplements and relevant care. The variance is due to the increase in the general commodity prices and the number of recipients.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 2, Activity 06 – Public Functions and Ceremonies − K51,500,000, I am told that the reduction, according to the hon. Minister, is because the ministry will not participate in some public functions and she cited the Agricultural and Commercial Show. I would like to find out why the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services will not participate in such a function because it is important that it does so for the nation and this Government.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member is raising a policy issue which has already been debated. The hon. Minister may give and answer if he so wishes.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, there are no bonuses from the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Vote 26/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 26/02 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services – Zambia News and Information Services ― K12,604,691,942).

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 05 – Labour Day Celebrations – K129,870,817. Last year, K57,310,000 was allocated and it proved enough. Why has the allocation increased to K129 million? 

Ms Cifire: Mr Chairperson, Programme 2, Activity 05 – Labour Day Celebrations – K129,870,817 is required to facilitate the department’s participation in the Labour Day celebrations. The variance is due to the rise in the cost of logistics. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 26/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 26/03 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services – Press and Planning – K27,382,624,370).

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 13, Activity 03 – Procurement of Fly Away Kit – K600,000,000. How many kits will be procured?

Ms Cifire: Mr Chairperson, Programme 13, Activity 03 – Procurement of Fly Away Kit – K600,000,000 is a new activity. It will enable the ZNBC to purchase satellite outside broadcasting equipment for live coverage of events. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, can the hon. Minister tell us how many kits will be procured?  

Mr Chairperson, I would like clarification on Programme 13, Activity 02 – Procurement of FM Transmitters for Districts – K3,992,398,502. This allocation has been increased from K616 million to K3,992,398,502. I would like to find out how many transmitters will be procured and which districts will be affected. 

Mr Chairperson, I would also like clarification on Programme 13, Activity 07 – Satellite Space Segment Rental – K11,466,000,000. Last year, there was no allocation for this activity. I do not technically understand this allocation. Can the hon. Minister explain this?

Ms Cifire: Mr Chairperson, the procurement of Fly Away Kit is a new activity. We will need enough funds to allow us to start and proceed with the programme. For now, therefore, it is not a question of how many kits we will procure, but getting started and ensuring that the programme is on-going. 

Mr Chairperson, Programme 13, Activity 02 – Procurement of FM Transmitters for Districts – K3,992,398,502 is for the improvement of radio reception by the ZNBC in as many districts as possible.  

Mr Chairperson, Programme 13, Activity 07 – Satellite Space Segment Rental – K11,466,000,000 is also a new activity. It will allow the ZNBC to rent satellite space to carry both radio and TV signals in order to provide efficient coverage. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 26/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Before I call on His Honour the Vice-President to give the policy debate for the Public Service Management Division, I wish to guide hon. Members who may have noticed that I have tried to ensure that as many people as possible debate. However, I have observed that we are taking up all the time and it is taking too long. We have a period within which to conclude our business.  

Consequently, since hon. Members are trying to use all the time they have for themselves, we will reduce the number of people to debate. There is no choice, but to maintain time management. 

If hon. Members had taken heed of what I said earlier that they only mention issues they want to debate instead of wandering to other debates, we would have had more time for everyone to debate. Therefore, please, understand that we are going to reduce the number of people who are going to debate from now on. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 27 – (Public Service Management Division – K412,505,994,552).

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Chairperson, the Public Service Management Division in the Office of the President is charged with the responsibility of managing human resources in the Public Service. 

Programmes implemented in 2010.

Mr Chairperson, with the 2010 Budget, the division executed the following programmes: 

(i)    facilitated the employment and placement of qualified and competent human resource across the Public Service;

(ii)    continued to co-ordinate the planning, implementation and monitoring of human resource development activities in the Public Service;

(iii)    continued with the institutionalisation of performance management package in the Public Service in order to improve individual and organisational performance;

(iv)    continued to collect human resources data on Public Service employees to facilitate human resource planning and forecasting;

(v)    up-graded the Payroll Management and Establishment Control (PMEC) system in conformity with the terms and conditions of service for the Public Service;

(vi)    the division introduced a direct debit and credit clearing facility to facilitate timely payment of salaries in the Public Service;

(vii)    facilitated negotiations for improved salaries and conditions of service for the Public Service ;

(viii)    continued to process statutory and non-statutory separation cases and facilitated payment of separation packages to Government employees; and

(ix)    launched an HIV and AIDS Prevention and Mitigation Strategy for the Public Service to guide the management of HIV and AIDS in the Public Service. 

Programme for 2011

In 2011, the division will continue to facilitate recruitment and placement and undertake inspection tours in ministries, institutions and provinces to ensure adherence to recruitment and placement policies and guidelines.

Mr Chairperson, the division will also continue to co-ordinate the management of training and development function. In addition, the division will reintroduce and co-ordinate induction programmes for newly recruited Public Service employees in order to improve performance and reduce staff turnover.

Mr Chairperson, with regard to payroll management, the division will focus on ensuring the expenditure on personal emoluments is within approved budget limits and that information affecting all employees on the payroll management and establishment control system is correctly reflected for both active and inactive employees.

Mr Chairperson, with regard to human resource information and planning, the division will continue to collect data on human resources in the Public Service in order to continuously update the existing data.

Mr Chairperson, all the programmes the division intends to undertake in 2011 are meant to enhance the management and development human resources in the Public Service. This is important given that successful implementation of the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) and other national programmes is dependent on effective and timely provision of qualified and competent human resources within the Public Service. 

Mr Chairperson, it is, therefore, necessary and incumbent upon this august House to support the division’s budget estimates for 2011 as proposed.

 Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the estimates of expenditure for the Public Service Management Division. I will be extremely brief because I just want to talk about three issues.

Sir, I am impressed that the budget has been increased form K297 billion to K412 billion. Having said so, I still want to appeal to the Government to give it adequate funding otherwise, it will not be able to transform the entire Civil Service. 

Mr Chairperson, I am only worried about the continuous existence of ghost workers in various ministries when we have a division that is supposed to collect data to ascertain how many people are working in the Civil Service. This is costing the Government a lot of money. I would, therefore, urge the hon. Minister in charge and the technocrats in this ministry to seriously sort out the issue of ghost workers. 

Sir, it is surprising that some people have been gone from Zambia for a long time and are working in other countries, and yet they continue receiving their salaries and even their leave days still continue to accumulate. This is a very serious drain on public resources and must be sorted out and brought to a stop.

Mr Chairperson, let me come to the issue of assessments. Very few people in the Public Service are assessed. Some people have never been assessed since they started work. I asked some teachers and nurses in my constituency how many times they had been assessed in the past five years. Sir, I regret to report that three quarters of them have not been assessed from the time they got employed. How do you promote people and how do you know the personal attributes of an individual if they are not assessed? Therefore, this division must enhance the issue of assessment so that people are assessed and their needs are worked on.

Sir, let me also talk about the issue of the timely payment of salaries to the Civil Service. On this one, the division has failed completely. The civil servants do not even know what their pay day is. They are left at the mercy of the Government to decide their the pay day. We need to fix a date so that a teacher knows that, for example, on the eighth day of a month he/she can go to the bank and find his/her money. 

For instance, some teachers from Mpongwe and Masaiti travel long distances to get their pay in Luanshya and, most of the time, they do not find it. Some of them even end up coming to hon. Members and say, “I came to get my salary, but I have no transport to go back.” This must be addressed. We should not be treating our Public Service workers like that. They are human beings who have feelings, budgets, families and children to send to school. Therefore, they must know when they are supposed to get their salaries. Let us not pay them as and when we wish. We need to work on this issue seriously.

His Honour the Vice-President said that there was an improved system where money would be transmitted directly to the accounts of individuals in all ministries. What has happened with this programme? Sometimes, people do not even appear on the payroll. When someone is removed from the payroll in ministries, it takes a long time to put them back on it. Do you really feel for these Public Service workers who go without getting their salaries, sometimes, for five to six months before they are put back on the payroll? These are issues that we must resolve quickly so that we can encourage our brothers and sisters who work in the Public Service to continue giving us a service that is expected of them.

Sir, with these few words, I totally support the budget estimates to this division and I thank you, Sir.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. I stand to support the increased, but not sufficient, budget for 2011 for the Public Service Management Division.

Mr Chairperson, the strength of the democratic system of governance relies on a very strong and professional Public Service which is beyond reproach, experienced and qualified. A good Public Service must be one that has stood the test of time, is not polluted with cheap partisan politics and has guaranteed tenure of office. The question is …

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: Your Honour the Vice-President, I would like you to listen.

The Deputy Chairperson:  Will the hon. Member for Pemba …

Mr Matongo: I mean, when we are speaking, we expect the Government to pay attention.

The Deputy Chairperson:  Order!

Hon. Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Matongo, you know the procedure. Cabinet is one and it will consult like you consult too but, please, continue.

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, Cabinet is one …

Hon. Members: Aah!

The Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, I have stated very clearly that a Public Service that would serve any in-coming Government and out-going Government is the one that is properly paid. I must commend our public servants and His Honour the Vice-President for handling the transition from the late President to the current President well. If you want to be congratulated, here is where to congratulate you. You did well.

 The Vice-President and Minister of Justice indicated assent.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Mr Matongo: Your Honour, you could do better to ensure that the Permanent Secretary’s tenure of office is guaranteed. I perfectly understand that there are those Permanent Secretaries with a long service arrangement and those whom you need to pick from the universities to take up certain appointments. This should be carefully balanced between the new entrants and those on fast track. 

Mr Chairperson, I wish to inform His Honour the Vice-President that the Public Service has been polluted with some amount of politics for a very long time. It is high time this country started appointing Permanent Secretaries who are not political failures, have lost elections or can no longer be accommodated in the party in Government. It is high time we had a Public Service such as the one in Botswana and Kenya. Even if we may not like the political situation in Kenya, its Public Service is strong. It is steady and not polluted. Countries like India, also, are to be emulated.

Sir, I am certainly aware that three quarters of the Permanent Secretaries working in this Government are on three-year contracts. This tenure of office is very short. Therefore, I wish to urge this Government not to casualise the Public Service by discouraging senior staff in the Government from working on contract. This is an appeal to this Government in order to strengthen the Public Service.

Mr Chairperson, I am aware that some good and competent directors working in Government ministries or departments are superseded. In the Kenyan Government system, no public servant is superseded. I wish to make an appeal to this Government that if one is superseded, they should be retired. I do not understand why this Government finds it easy to look for party cadres to occupy the vacancies. You guys, I hope that when we come into Government …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The word ‘guys’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Matongo: I withdraw the word ‘guys’.

When we, in the Opposition, come into Government, we should make it a priority to ensure that the Public Service is not disturbed.

Mr Chairperson, on the issue of emoluments for public servants, I wish to say that these should be looked into in a long term perspective. I am pleased to inform this House that our appeal to let the Salaries Commission standardise salaries in the Public Service is on and running smoothly. We hope that it will address the issue of poor standardisation of salaries in the Public Service, for example, in a case where a less qualified person gets more money than a qualified person or an experienced person gets less than a junior who has just come out of university. I hope this issue will be worked out and hope that the Government of the day will be honest enough to rationalise these situations.

Sir, the Salaries Commission should look at salaries in the Public Service in a longer term perspective and in line with human development indices. These are important measures in human relations development. I hope that the Salaries Commission will put a stop to the frustration that our many retired generals, Permanent Secretaries and civil servants are suffering now because of inappropriate pensions. We must have a distinguished career so that when a civil servant retires, he/she is happy to retire comfortably so that he/she can still offer advice to the Government of the day.

Mr Chairperson, on the issue of the Pension Fund, I have noticed that it is in arrears. There is a funding gap of K150 billion. I have also noticed that the arrears will be paid at the rate of K50 billion. The delay in paying a retired person his/her pension on time is denying them the chance to engage in economic activities that are good for the country. This frustrates retirees to settle early, hence we see most of our public servants retiring today and, a few months later, pass on. Then the likes of Hon. Shikapwasha go to pay homage in a church hoping they will go to heaven.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, these gaps must be dealt with in a more civilised manner. We need to have a Civil Service with a lower staff turnover and increased stay-on-the job because only then, can we have a government that is strong enough.

Frankly, Sir, I do not like politicians interfering with the work of public servants. However, it must be understood clearly that when one is a minister in a government, he/she has ostensible authority on the dictation of policy which that particular civil servant is undertaking. There is discord in your Government between the Public Service and hon. Ministers. You have the law and what happens?

A case in point is the Road Development Agency (RDA) issue where top ministers, some of them respectable, were defending the indefensible because …

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Mulongoti!

Mr Matongo: … they had not been properly briefed or there could have been a discord between them and their public servants.

Sir, if one has to work as a minister or as a public servant in a government, he/she has to work in a choetemus manner. For those who may not understand that word, it means in a manner where there is hand- in-glove process or relationship. The minister should respect the public servant because of his experience and, on the other hand, the public servant should respect the minister for his fair and reasonable approach rather than saying the usual “I am the minister.” Please, do not because then, there will be disharmony and discord. 

Mr Chairperson, my appeal to this House is that we should discourage hon. Ministers and Permanent Secretaries from saying, “I am the minister or I am the permanent secretary.” People must work in harmony.

Sir, system failures bring about a weak Public Service. If a government is dysfunctional, it is brought about by a weak Public Service just as an inexperienced ministerial appointment also weakens the Public Service. If this country has to develop at a faster rate than it is, at the moment, we need to improve on these issues.

Politicisation of the Public Service is also in itself a problem. Today, one can be appointed district commissioner, and yet he is district secretary in the MMD party and, tomorrow, you will appoint a Permanent Secretary who was a party cadre in Kitwe. The other day, you will appoint an ambassador. Let us not confuse these issues.

Let me remind the hon. Members on your right, Sir, that when we come into power …

Hon. Government Members: When?

Mr Matongo: … we will rationalise …

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: … and replace the likes of the Mabengas.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mabenga: On a point of order.

Mr Matongo: It does not necessarily mean that we will be mean, but civilisation would have been brought into the Public Service.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member is debating very well, but he is bringing in individuals who are seated listening quietly to him into his debate. Why can the hon. Member not restrict his debate to the subject at hand so that he does not draw others into the debate?

May you continue.

Mr Matongo: I will continue, but they must respect …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

Mr Matongo: When we come into power, we want to see a Public Service that is respected. We would like to see ministers who do not interject unreasonably when we are debating.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: We want to see a government that responds to the wishes and well-being of its people.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yebo!

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, from 1991 to date, we have had politics of non development. I wish to appeal to His Honour the Vice-President that, immediately after the elections, work of developing our country should go on rather than looking at a person whose eyes are bigger than the other.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, I have seen that there is …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
 Chair]

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I wanted to briefly comment on a number of issues which were raised. I have taken note of some hostility in the debates coming from the UPND against me. That hostility is understood and I will not reply to some of the issues raised now. However, when I tour the Southern Province very soon …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … I will deal with the issues comprehensively.

Mr Nkombo: There goes Uncle George.

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Matongo made very constructive suggestions, but what I want to say about his debate is that it was spiced with sarcasm and that may destroy some of the points. However, basically, they were constructive and we have taken note of them.

Mr Chairperson, on the payment of salaries, I want to say that since the introduction of the direct debit and credit clearing system (DDAC), the payment of salaries has been timely because, by the last day of the month, salaries will have been paid. Further, the upgrading of the Pemex system has helped to improve the processing of salaries in the Public Service.

Mr Chairperson, I also wish to say that the Government has embarked on the decentralisation of the payroll to ensure that only eligible employees are on it. All the provinces have the payroll decentralised and so these are some of the positive steps we have taken. Otherwise, I wish to thank all the hon. Members for their positive contributions to the debate and for supporting the Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 27/01 – (Public Service Management Division – Administration – K366,731,855,548).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 2, Activity 01 – Office Administration – K980,126,000, I would like to know why we have reduced the amount when there is an increase in staff welfare and the rest.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 2, Activity 01 – Office Administration – K980,126,000, the provision is required to meet the operational costs for running activities planned for the year and the decrease is as a result of the reduced number of tasks to be undertaken in 2011.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 2, Activity 10 – Africa Public Service Day – K310,815,603, I note that all ministries have budgeted for this day, but why have we allocated K310 billion under this division? What is all this money for?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

It is K310,815,603 and not the K10 billion you are quoting.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, this provision will cater for the co-ordination of the 2011 Africa Public Service Day celebrations and the provision has increased because of the increase in the cost of publicising the event. The division plays an extra role of co-ordination.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 27/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 27/02 – (Public Service Management Division – Recruitment and Placement – K2,369,198,223).

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 8, Activity 2 – Human Resource Procedures Inspections – K254,997,952, may I know why there is an increase in the allocation?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, this activity involves monitoring of recruitment placement activities. The provision has increased due to the increase in the number of inspection tours to be undertaken in 2011.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 27/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 27/03 – (Public Service Management Division – Human Resources Information and Planning – K4,218,696,503).

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 8, Activity 03 – Records Management Policy Development – K127,478,967. May we know what has necessitated the increase from K86,161,580 to what is being proposed. 

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Are you referring to the Records Management Policy Development Vote?

 Mr Kambwili: Yes.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, this provision is required for the launch, printing and dissemination of the Records Management Policy of the Public Service Management PSMD. The allocation has increased due to the expected rise in the number of tasks to be undertaken.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 27/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 27/04 – (Public Service Management Division – Human Resource Development – K2,359,291,879).

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on, Programme 5, Activity 01 – Human Resource Capacity Development. May I know why there is no provision for this activity when capacity development is an integral part of administration.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, in the last Budget, there was K97,852,660 allocated to this activity, but there is no allocation for next year because funds have been reallocated to Activity 03 – Staff Induction – K373,657,478, which has been prioritised. 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 27/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 27/05 – (Public Service Management Division – Technical Services – K25,688,250,876).

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 8, Activity 04 – Negotiations and Sign Collective Agreements – K334,156,181. 

The Deputy Chairperson: On what page?

Mr D. Mwila: Page 351. 

May I continue?

The Deputy Chairperson: Please, proceed.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, in the last Budget, we provided K576,710,219 for this activity and you are aware that the Government … 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

What is your point of clarification? Ask the question please.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, why is K334,156,181 being allocated to this activity when negotiations were concluded and signed and, therefore, we do not expect any more negotiations next year?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Chairperson, the provision is required for the purchase of stationery, fuel and lubricants and other administrative expenses for the joint negotiating committee. The allocation has reduced due to the reduced number of tasks. There will be some negotiations, next year, which we need to budget for.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 27/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 27/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 21 – (Loans and Investments – Ministry of Finance and National Planning – K3,308,749,409,705) and VOTE 37 ─ ( Ministry of Finance and National Planning – K836,006,665,219).

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is charged with the responsibility of national planning and managing the economy at the macro level. It is also responsible for mobilising and managing public resources in the most efficient and effective manner. This responsibility is in line with the mission statement which is: 

“To effectively and efficiently co-ordinate national planning and economic management, mobilise and manage public financial and economic resources in a transparent and accountable manner for sustainable national development and the well-being of the people of Zambia.”

Mr Chairperson, as I indicated in the 2011 Budget Address, the ministry continues to spearhead prudent fiscal management and implement policies that sustain high economic growth. 

Mr Chairperson, in order to augment gains made, the ministry has put together programmes and activities amounting to K836 billion, part of which relate to national programmes that benefit the entire Government system. Hon. Members may wish to know that the allocation to my ministry has been drastically reduced primarily due to two factors which are:

(i)    the non-provision and scaling down of high expenditure items such as the national census, arrears to suppliers and the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP); and

(ii)    to allow for increased spending in other areas such as health, education and roads.

Mr Chairperson, the estimates presented here are, therefore, in line with the Government policy of realigning expenditure from non-priority areas to those of high priority. The 2011 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Finance and National Planning are broken down as follows:

(i)    the Human Resource and Administration Department has been allocated K359.3 billion, of which K309.1 billion is for supporting institutions such as the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), Financial Intelligence Unit, Lusaka Stock Exchange (LuSE), Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA), National Economic Advisory Council (NEAC), Revenue Appeals Tribunal and National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA). The remaining amount is for other operational expenses. 

(ii)    Budget Office has been allocated K6.9 billion;

(iii)    Government Stores has been allocated K4.9 billion;

(iv)    Centralised Computer Services Department has been given K8.5 billion;

(v)    Financial Management and Accounting ─ Accountant-General’s Office has been allocated K359.2 billion, which is broken down as follows:

(a)    K84.7 billion is for the dismantling of arrears to contractors, suppliers of goods and services and utility companies;

(b)    K190.1 billion is for the employers’ share contribution for all civil servants;

(c)    K71.1 billion is for constitutional office holders; and

(d)    the remaining amount is for personal emoluments and other operational expenses;

(e)    investment and debt management has been allocated K5.9 billion;

(f)    Central Statistical Office (CSO) receives K48.3 billion;

(g)    internal auditing will receive K8.4 billion;

(h)    economic management will receive K7.8 billion;

(i)    National Planning Department will receive K13 billion;

(j)    Monitoring and Evaluation Department will get K6.9 billion; and

(k)    my ministry will continue to pursue public-private partnerships (PPPs) as an alternative financing mechanism for large infrastructure projects. In this regard, the department which is called National Policy and Programme Implementation has been allocated K6.8 billion.

(vi)    Mr Chairperson, Under Head 21, K3.3 trillion has been allocated with the following details:

(a)    K32.1 billion is for the payment of the contributions to major regional and international organisations;

(b)    K70.4 billion is for projects such as the Cancer Disease Hospital, the Copperbelt Environmental Programme, the Rural Finance Programme, the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund, the Millennium Challenge Account, Compact Project and the Zambia Consensus Project;

(c)    K162.2 billion relates to Government investments;

(d)    K3 trillion will be spent on road infrastructure under the Roads Development Agency (RDA) which is under the Ministry of Works and Supply for roads, bridges and culvert inventory studies, road condition surveys on trunk, main and district roads (TMDs) and other road infrastructure programmes.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to comment on a few items that may be of interest to the House. The Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) has reached an advanced stage and is expected to be launched this month by His Excellency the President.

As 2011 marks the first year of the SNDP, I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to play a pivotal role in monitoring the Budget as well as the plan, the Public Expenditure Management and Financial Accountability (PEMFA) programme and the Integrated Financial Management Information Systems (IFMIS). The targets set out in our national plans cannot be achieved without the prudent use of public resources. In this regard, the Government has been undertaking the public financial management reforms with the support of co-operating partners under PEMFA. The Government is building the capacity of its public institutions to mobilise and utilise public resources efficiently and effectively as well as enhance transparency and accountability for the benefit of the Zambian people.

Mr Chairperson, the piloting of IFMIS in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning since 4th January, 2010 and the rolling out to the rest of the ministries, provinces and other spending agencies is expected to continue in 2011. IFMIS is meant to integrate and automate the financial management information system in the Government in order to improve internal controls, timely provision of financial information to aid cost control, reduce wastage and enable timely decision-making.

As the PEMFA programme comes to an end, I should inform the House of notable progress met which includes, but not limited to:

(i)    the enactment of the Public Procurement Act;

(ii)    the appointment of audit committees and launch of the Audit Committee Handbook in order to create modern controls, structures and good governance practices in the public sector; and

(iii)    the support to the offices of the Auditor-General, the National Assembly and the Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA) through the construction of offices and committee rooms so as to enhance the oversight role played by these institutions.

With the progress made to date, it is important that we consolidate these gains by controlling them with those critical reforms, such as IFMIS, that will not be completed by December, this year. Let me emphasise the need for all stakeholders to support these important reforms.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, it is my conviction that the willingness of all departments and grant aided institutions, under the ministry, to prioritise spending and make informed policy choices that are affordable in the medium term and meaningful to long term developments reflects our commitment towards the genuine improvement in financial and economic management.

Mr Chairperson, I seek the support of the House and I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to, first of all, commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for having ably managed our economy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Chairperson, suffice to say that he needs to do more in order for us to prosper as a nation. As you are aware, most of the funds which were approved, last year, by this House have not been released to spending ministries and departments. We have in mind, for example, the CDF and many other activities which have been affected.

Mr Chairperson, there is one simple reason and this is that the ministry is under pressure. There are so many national activities that the ministry is forced to undertake, if I can use the word, deliberately. First of all, there is the census programme which is taking place. The ministry also has to contend with the national registration exercise expenditure as well as that of collecting produce from the bumper harvest. All these activities have a telling effect on the Ministry of Finance and National Planning or the Treasury. 

Therefore, the question is: What is the way forward? It is for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his competent managers to generate a lot of revenue with emphasis on non-tax revenue. Our major weakness, as a nation, is that we have a lot of money in all the ministries which we fail to collect. I have said this before several times. The reason behind this is very simple and it is that we have been operating as a Government and not as a business entity. It is high time we departed from the kind of arrangement whereby Government departments, which can generate a lot of revenue, are not allowed to do so. We should begin to inculcate business concepts in all these managers who are managing our ministries.

This is not happening elsewhere. In the United States of America (USA) and Europe, for example, the moment a person is appointed to head a particular ministry, he or she becomes as good as a chief executive or controlling officer. This person is able to generate a lot of revenue to assist in the discharge of his/her responsibilities to the best of his/her ability.

 However, Mr Chairperson, this is not what is happening in our country, and yet we have a lot of ministries that can generate a lot of revenue. The Marketing Department of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services, for example, has the potential to generate a lot of revenue which can be utilised by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. However, the money that is generated from there is peanuts. 

Mr Chairperson, we also have other institutions and departments, in our country, that always go to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning with fish bowls hoping that the hon. Minister and his manager will put fish in them. We should depart from that type of arrangement. 

Again, we have a number of institutions, especially city councils, that have the potential of generating a lot of revenue. I do not expect city councils to line up at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning seeking money to discharge their functions. This is because they have the potential to raise money from their ratable properties. One just has to walk or drive along any road to see all the ratable properties. However, how much money from these properties is being collected by the councils? It is nothing.

Sir, there was a time when I − and I am happy that hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is here and listening attentively − asked that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning be assisted to increase his revenue base by ensuring that a number of places were earmarked for industrial development. I had one example in particular which I thought was beautiful and had potential for industrial development. This is the area between Mungwi Road or Old Mumbwa Road and the New Mumbwa Road. I requested that this area be reserved for industrial development without allowing squatters to encroach on the area.

Mr Chairperson, if you went there, today, you would find squatters putting up houses. How much revenue is going to be collected from those squatters? It will amount to nothing, and yet if you had put up big shops, through bonds as councils, you would have been able to generate a lot of revenue from them. 

The Government would have put up another Manda Hill Shopping Mall or Shoprite and this would have brought a lot of revenue for the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. However, people from Samfya and Choma, among others, have been allowed to squat in the area. How much money is the Government going to collect from them? It will be nothing. 

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: We do not expect the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to beg for money because he has the potential under his portfolio, through councils, to generate a lot of revenue to implement programmes without even looking to the Treasury. 

Sometimes I ask myself one simple question: When is the Government going to introduce financial independence in all the departments? For how long will the Government allow them to beg for something that they can generate? The hon. Minister has a key role to play in transforming all the ministries into commercial entities that will be able to generate a lot of money which can be used to implement programmes. There is a lot of begging. The Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and Ministry of Works and Supply, for example, can do without the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. 

Mr Chairperson, there are a lot of vehicles in transit, for example, which are destroying our roads on a daily basis. However, how much money is being collected from them? It is peanuts, and yet the hon. Minister of Works and Supply always goes to his counterpart to look for money when these trucks can be taxed heavily to generate a lot of money for maintaining our roads. 

Mr Chairperson, there are so many examples that I can give from which revenue can be generated. Why should we continue looking for money if we have the resources here? Someone should answer this simple question: Does it make sense − and I am saying that in a polite manner − for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to continue financing the Zambia WildLife Authority (ZAWA) when it is capable of generating a lot of revenue through a number of concessions? In fact, a number of people who run commercial activities under its portfolio are white and non-Zambian for that matter. However, they are allowed to fail to honour their obligations. They do not pay on time and we expect ZAWA to go to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to look for money when it can generate a lot of revenue. I think it is important to be serious about some of these issues. Let us break away from this dependency syndrome. We have the resources. 

We have a lot of minerals, but we are failing to generate revenue from all these ministries simply because we are operating like the responsibility of generating revenue lies with a specific individual. Let us develop a sense of ownership so that when you are appointed chief executive of a particular ministry or department, you take it upon yourself to ensure that you generate a lot of revenue. This is not happening. We are always begging. 

Each time hon. Ministers stand up to contribute, they always refer to funding from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning or the Treasury. What are you doing within your own system? First and foremost, look at the money that is available in your ministry and that should be your starting point. 

Mr Chairperson, the Judiciary is another institution that can give us a lot of money. Sometimes, what lacks in all these ministries and departments is accountability and monitoring. Let us introduce financial independence. Let us ensure that when a person is appointed to man an institution as chief executive officer, he or she should understand the environment in which he or she is working and also make sure that a lot of money is generated.

Again, I do not expect, for example, the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning responsible for the Budget to be the first person to knock off. He should be the last person after receiving information to the effect that all ministries have remitted a lot of revenue to Control 99. That should be the starting point from today onwards. 

Even when you go to Washington to borrow money, it should be a question of just borrowing enough to complement our efforts and that is the best way of being respected as a nation. We should not go to Washington to borrow money when we have non-taxed revenue back at home lying idle in all the ministries. Why are you paying all these people for doing literally nothing? 

Why do you pay these chief executive officers for doing nothing? Why do you always approach the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for money? You must change your culture. Hon. Minister, you must begin to tell them that instead of looking for money from your ministry, they have to go and generate their own.

The hon. Minister for Communications and Transport, who is a competent hon. Minister, has talked about this, but cannot do anything. 

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Mr Kasongo: That is because there is a chief executive officer who is supposed to be running issues on a daily basis. The role of the hon. Minister is to direct policy while the onus is on the chief executive officer to collect the money. 

How much money, for example, do you collect from the Ministry of Communications and Transport? Go to the Lumumba Road offices and you will find the officers busy talking and moving from one counter to another while clients wait in queues instead of being attended as quickly as possible so that a lot of money is collected. 

I like to queue up on my own so that I see things physically. You will be shocked if you will be served within an hour or so. As you move from one queue to the next, the officer who is supposed to attend to you is talking, while the other one has gone inside, and yet another is eating breakfast. 

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: What sort of management is that? That is why you are borrowing money. However, by borrowing heavily, you are overburdening Zambians. Let us change this culture of doing business. Let those people you appoint be accountable on a daily basis. Try to check how much money each counter has raised in a day. You will be able to distinguish liabilities from high performers and you should be able to reward high performers.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Lelo mwakamba.

Mr Chota: Mr Chairperson, Zambia is able to collect revenue for a number of major developments. We have the money and the labour to achieve that. 

The other day, Hon. Hachipuka talked about his being educated. He did not even want to talk more on windfall tax and he knew what he was talking about. You do not have to talk about windfall tax. You can talk about other taxes and that is what other people are doing. 

I heard that there is no country that has introduced windfall tax. That is a lie.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Chota: That is not true.

Laughter

Mr Chota: What other people have done is just to introduce taxes with different names. That is what they have done.

Sir, Zambia produces copper, cobalt, silver, selenium, gold, nickel, manganese, lead, diamond and precious stones. If you went to Luapula, you would find that the manganese that is mined there is taken to South Africa for processing.

In his address to the House, the President said that there would be value adding industries. I have gone around and not seen any construction site for value adding industries, especially for extractive products.

Sir, at the moment, copper at the global market is going at US$8,000 to 11,000 per metric tonne weight. If you go into Futures arrangement or the Contango arrangement, it is at US$11,000. They are maximising their production.

I know the mining industry in Zambia will produce more than 770 thousand metric tonnes of copper. However, we have forgotten about cobalt. We have allowed the mining companies to export concentrates. We are losing out on cobalt. In America, cobalt is going at US$45 per pound weight. We are losing huge amounts of money. Copper is going at US$2.50 per pound weight. Again, that is a lot of money we are losing out on-spot sales. 

I agree with what Hon. Hachipuka said, although he said he was educated. It is true that anyone who does not want to talk about the windfall tax can introduce different types of taxes. Look at the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), for example. Only recently, it won a case against Quantum Minerals. Its electricity supply was cut off and because Quantum Minerals extends its power supply to the DRC, it came back to Zambia and complained and we reconnected them. It was as simple as that, but the Congolese got what they wanted. 

Again, in the DRC, Tenga Fungarume won a case at the international arbitration. Sir, the Governor of Katanga is so sharp that he has introduced other taxes. These taxes are not called windfall tax, but they are earning them a lot of money.

Let me refer to the speech at the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly by the late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC., may his soul rest in peace, on 11th  January, 2008:

“By international comparison, Zambia, today, earns far less from its mining activities than any other mining country in the world. Our average effective tax rate at 31.7 per cent is 8 per cent points lower than the next lowest country in the world. On the basis of our computation, the following countries have much higher effective mining tax rates as follows:

Country    Percentage

Mozambique    53

Angola    52.9

Botswana    49.1

Namibia    48.2

Tanzania    45.4

Indonesia    45.2

Australia    40.5

Peru    39.2

Zambia    31.7        

Mr Chairperson, they are not talking about windfall tax. They are talking about their intelligence. In Zambia, we do not even have qualified metal traders. That is why we allow little tax to be paid for concentrates that are exported to China. China is storing all the concentrates and, in a few years, when Zambia will have no copper to talk about, it will be getting copper from China. In the meantime, we would have missed the opportunity to tax them. These are the facts which are there for anyone to see. 

I spoke about Luapula earlier and, at the moment, there are trucks taking manganese away from there, but you complain about the lack of employment. Why do you not process the manganese in Zambia? Why are we taking the manganese to South Africa?

Dr Chishya interjected.

Mr Chota: Maybe, the Doctor may have a lot of things to say because he is interjecting, but what I am talking about are facts.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Please, continue. Do not worry about those that do not have the Floor.

Mr Chota: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your protection.

Sir, to say the truth, because of natural disasters, Zambia is now the highest producer of copper and cobalt. In the past, the two highest producers of cobalt in the world were the DRC and Zambia. At the moment, there are problems in Chile and everywhere else. This is the time we would have raised money because even now we are producing more cobalt, but we are not talking about it. The hon. Ministers of Finance and National Planning and Mines and Minerals Development have never spoken about cobalt. If you go to Chirundu and see the piles of cobalt concentrates, you can cry because nobody is accounting for it. We will be left with environmental disasters which we will fail to manage. Although the hon. Minister said K25 billion has been set aside for that purpose, it is inadequate. If we talk about burying the Nchanga Open Pit Mine, it will gobble billions of Kwacha.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Member, you are veering off the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to Ministry Mines and Minerals Development. Please, stick to the Vote on the Floor.

Mr Chota: Sir, I am talking about the issue of raising revenue because we can get a lot of money from the mines to tar all our roads and grade all our feeder roads in Zambia. This is the kind of money we are losing. 

Sir, I want to inform you that we are getting US$11,000 per metric tonne. That is the truth and those are the Contango contract arrangements. Surely, can we not tax them without calling it windfall tax so that we get revenue to develop our country? Please, let us talk about that and not semantics. I agree with Hon. Hapunda that we are all educated …

Laughter

Mr Chota: Hon. Hachipuka.

Laughter

Mr Chota: … and can easily do that. 

With those few words, I would like to thank you.

Captain Moono (Chilanga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Vote on the Floor of the House.

Sir, we sound like we are repeating the same things just because …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Captain, avoid using the word repeating.

Captain Moono: We are overemphasizing the same things just because this Government has not responded to the demands of Zambians. There is a lot of debate about who is doing the projects that the Government is undertaking. If we cannot utilise the resources to the maximum advantage of our people, then emphasis will be made to voice out the concerns of our people who we represent in this House. 

Mr Chairperson, first of all, I would like to look at the issues being faced at the Cancer Disease Hospital. A lot of attention needs to be paid to cancer diseases. It is not enough to just create a hospital without funding its supporting infrastructure like laboratories. At the moment, most mothers are dying of cervical cancer at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) whilst waiting to receive results from laboratories. Hon. Minister, there is a need to create a fast track laboratory for cancer patients so that doctors are able to make quick decisions and save lives.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Member, I am trying to follow your line of debate very closely. The Vote on the Floor of the House is on the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Captain Moono: Mr Chairperson, I am following what is in the Yellow Book …

Mr Ntundu: Yes!

Captain Moono: Unless I was given a wrong copy of the Yellow Book because …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: All the Chair is saying to you is that debate the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, Loans and Investments. If you go into details of what is happening in hospitals, you will have veered off the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, Loans and Investments to the Ministry of Health.

Captain Moono: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance.

Mr Chairperson, I was emphasizing that the support being to the Cancer Disease Hospital is not adequate. Therefore, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should look into the issue of infrastructure to support that hospital. The hospital is independent of the current crowded and outdated laboratories that do not produce results on time while people are dying.

Mr Mubika: Quality!

Mr Ntundu: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Captain Moono: I also want to ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to sit down with the Disaster Management Committee so that we move away from funding mitigation to funding prevention.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Captain Moono: There is no need because we know that every rainy season we allocate funds to a vote on mitigation of floods. I know why people are interested in mitigation of floods. It is because when there are floods, funds are quickly released and nobody cares how these funds are being utilised. Why can we not improve our drainage system during the dry season? 

Mr Chairperson, I am very passionate about the issue of floods because, from Kanyama, they extend to Chilanga and Kalundu, in particular.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Captain Moono: Deaths that occur in that area are not recorded or publicised because it is very far from the city centre.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Captain Moono: I am the only source of this information in this House ....

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Captain Moono: … and I should be allowed to tell the hon. Minister to move away from mitigation to prevention. We want Zambia to be free of floods. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Captain Moono: Floods have now become an annual event. They are a ceremony similar to the Kuomboka.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Imasiku: Mr Chairperson, I rarely raise points of order in this House, but is the hon. Member of Parliament debating in order to refer to floods as ‘froods’.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member debating may continue.

Captain Moono: Mr Chairperson, the other issue that I would like to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is the danger zone between Lusaka and Chilanga, just after Vuma. We have lost a lot of lives in that area. There have been about fifteen deaths this year. Last week alone, about four people died at that bend towards Linda Junction. The road is becoming dangerously bad for motorists. This should be treated as a priority because we should look at the number of people dying.

Mr Ntundu:  Mpulungu get ready to debate.

Captain Moono: I know that, as Zambians, we are not good at responding to calamities that happen in Zambia, but we are quick at sending messages of condolences to other countries …

Laughter

Captain Moono: … once such things happen. 

   I think this danger spot needs to be worked on immediately.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to look at the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF). I think the name of the fund should be changed so that it can capture those who are truly being funded. This money is not accessible by ordinary Zambians who have no title deeds. It is further not accessible to those who are not engaged in the production of anything and those who are not able to come up with expensive project proposals.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Member, I am trying to be as magnanimous as I can. Much as the Ministry of Finance and National Planning disburses money to all the ministries, surely concentration now must be on what it does and not what happens where the money goes. I think there is a distinction between the two. I would want you, now, to concentrate on the ministry itself as opposed to where the money from the ministry goes.

 May you continue.

Captain Moono: Mr Chairperson, I want to urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to make sure that there is prudent utilisation of our money. The monies which are meant for projects such as the CEEF should be accessible by all Zambians.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to look at the repayment of loans in the Yellow Book. By this, I mean the loans meant for the purchasing of maize. I do not take agriculture as a hobby, but as a business. Those who borrow money should be able to repay other than the Government making provisions for these loans. I expect the institution in charge of the purchases and reselling of maize to make sure that there is enough money to pay back the interest on the loans other than going to the Government all the time. I think the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has a lot of demands which it has to carter for. 

Mr Chairperson, I am privileged to stay with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in the same constituency. He is aware of the state of roads which are impassable during the rainy season, but I have not seen any of them in this Yellow Book. One of the notorious roads called Kasupe Road passes through his yard. Every year, works on this road are not funded. 

Interruptions

Captain Moono: Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, unless you start talking about the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, I will have to curtail your debate. Please, debate the ministry now. You can talk about that when the Vote for the Ministry of Works and Supply comes. You cannot do a countrywide debate from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning perspective.

 You may continue.

Captain Moono: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance. As hon. Members of Parliament, we should be doing a lot of research on issues. You cannot look at one ministry in isolation. I endeavoured to also talk …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

May the hon. Minister wind up debate. 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for this opportunity to wind up debate. There were, indeed, certain good points that were made, but as we just heard, now, there were also discussions that were going all over the place.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, nevertheless, I appreciate all the contributions that were made. Let me just quickly respond to a few points that were made. There was a discussion about the amount of manganese mining taking place in Luapula without a refinery and, therefore, without adding value to that important mineral. 

Mr Chairperson, the reason the refining of manganese is not taking place is because the power supply in Luapula is insufficient to support the process. At the moment, through a private-public partenership (PPP), we have given concessions to certain companies to be able to carry power through the Pedicle Road into Luapula as the first step to enhance power supply in the province, while we still go on with other processes of creating a power station in Luapula. The fastest route is to take power to Luapula via the Pedicle Road. When that is done, we should see the processing of manganese taking place in that province. With the good prospects for iron, we believe, this is going to be a very good foundation for creating a steel industry in the country.

Mr Chairperson, there was also reference to what the late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC, said. When he came to the House, he said that the amount of revenue that Zambia was collecting from mining was less compared to other countries. What the President precisely said at the end of that statement was that he wanted the effective tax rate in Zambia to be at about 47 per cent. Now, there were various elements to what he had said. There was a movement of the mineral royalty tax from 0.6 per cent to 3 per cent. He announced that change and it still stands today. There was also the aspect of increasing the income tax from 25 per cent to 30 per cent. That change still stands today. 

Mr Chairperson, on top of that, the President introduced a tax that would respond to the prices of copper. This response could be either by way of revenue or by way of profits. With the variable income tax that stands today, there is a tax that responds to an increase in prices and profits. I can confirm that there are some companies today which are liable to pay that tax and they are going to pay that tax. If I may add, the biggest payers of taxes today are the mining companies. When you take all the income taxes being collected from all the companies in Zambia and add them together, the amount that you will find is less than what a single mining company pays today in terms of tax. Taxes from the mining sector are increasing. Where a company has spent money to invest, it is a standard practice all over the world that we give it time to recoup its   investment. Whether you are engaged in agriculture or manufacturing, whether you are in Australia or Canada … 

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Why do you not want to listen to expert advice?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, this is a practice all over the world. I have made an assurance that with high mineral prices, the period of recovering the investments will be shortened drastically. 

The period of recovery of investments for the company I referred to was estimated to last for eight years, but due to high prices, it was cut to two years. I have given the assurance that, in the next two to three years, the amount of taxes we will see coming out of the mining sector will increase drastically. 

Mr Chairperson, with the rise in royalty tax, the increase in income tax from 25 to 30 per cent and with the provision of the liable income tax, the effective tax rate in mining, today, in Zambia is estimated at about 47 per cent, which was what this Government and President Mwanawasa intended. The effective tax rate with windfall tax was around 80 or 90 per cent, which was not the intention of President Mwanawasa, SC. In fact, we know that the President made a policy decision to the effect that he did not intend it to be that way. He intended for 47 per cent as stated below:

    “Not more than a cent above that.”

All we are doing now is to stick to the decision that was made of 47 per cent not 70, 80 or 90 per cent because it was not his or the Government’s intention. 

Mr Chairperson, there was a statement to the effect that Zambia, today, has no qualified metal traders and this could be why it is not gaining much revenue. I just indicated that revenues from the mining sector are now being ramped up. I further want to state that, towards the end of the mining sector, we had a lot of qualified local metal traders. However, did we benefit in terms of taxes? This was the time when the contribution of the mining sector to taxes in Zambia was negative. In fact, rather than us getting anything out of it, the Treasury, on a daily basis, had to tax all of us the equivalent of US$1 million per day to put in the mining sector. We were losing but, today, we are gaining. 

We, therefore, need to be very careful how we utter statements because if we oversimplify things, we are in danger of misleading ourselves. This is why I say that those who come to this House and those who are in leadership positions must take time to understand what they are talking about. Go through books, files and search the internet and read and understand. Once you understand, you will not mislead yourself and the people of Zambia and you will be a more useful citizen. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 21 – (Loans and Investment – Ministry of Finance and National Planning – K3,308,749,409,705).

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Chairperson, I have a number of questions, but with your permission, I would like to handle them one at a time so that the hon. Minister can respond adequately. 

Firstly, I would like clarification on Programme 7, Activity 06 – Citizen Empowerment Fund – K 40,000,000,000. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister where he has allocated money for the operations of the commission since only money for the fund is provided for. 

Secondly, I seek clarification on Programme 24, Activity 03 – Other Financial Restructuring – K57,123,254,599, Activity 09 – Japanese Non-Project Grant Aid (JNPGA) – K5,000,000,000, Activity 11 – ZIMCO in Liquidation ( Litigation Costs) – K15,200,000,000.

Mr Chairperson, given that, under Programme 24, there are Recapitalisation, Investments and Government Institution Funds, I would like to find out what is contained in the blanket, Other Financial Restructuring, for which the hon. Minister is asking for a huge sum of K57 billion. 

Further, can the Hon. Minister inform us whether the JNPGA for which he is asking this House to allocate K5 billlion which went defunct many years ago is to be resuscitated in 2011? If so, when will he make a statement to give the guidelines?

Mr Chairperson, I would like to find out why ZIMCO in Liquidation litigation costs have gone up more than fifteen fold. Since the liquidation of ZIMCO, liquidation costs have been met. Last year, K1 billion was allocated and spent. Now the hon. Minister is asking for K15 billion. What new cases have come up? 

Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning may respond. 

Mr Lubinda:  Mr Chairperson, I still have more questions. 

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You are not the only one here. You have asked enough. You cannot speak as if you are the only person here. There are other hon. Members who want time. 

The hon. Minister may respond. 

The Deputy Minister of Finance ad National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Chairperson, Programme 7, Activity 06 – Citizen Empowerment Fund – K40,000,000,000 is for the fund. The increase in allocation is due to the increased scope of lending in 2011. The actual operations of the CEEC will be funded through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 24, Activity 09 – Japanese Non-Project Grant Aid (JNPGA) – K5,000,000,000, is a refund to the JNPGA for money which was borrowed by the Treasury. 

Mr Chairperson, the next one on Programme 24, Activity 11 – ZIMCO in liquidation (Litigation Costs) –  K15.2 billion, which the hon. Member is  suggesting has gone up from K1 billion to K15.2 billion. This is a provision to cater for settlement of judgment debt in favour of good performer employees of companies that were subsidiaries of ZIMCO in liquidation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: This provision is to liquidate that outstanding liability.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!  Please clarify Activity 03 as well on the same programme. 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 24, Activity 03 – Other Financial Restructuring – K57,123,254,599, these are financial obligations that the FRA went into in the past with certain South African banks that are still being serviced by the Treasury.

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 8, Activity 14 – Construction of a Fly-over Bridges on the Lusaka Makeni Road – K3,400,000,000. I am wondering whether this is the one which is nearing completion or there are some more fly-over bridges to be put up.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 8, Activity 14 – Construction of a Fly-over Bridges on the Lusaka Makeni Road – K3,400,000,000, this is another bridge that is to be erected. So, there will be two.

 I thank you, Sir.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 24, Activity 13 – Maize Price Support (Arrears). Last year, we had K137,000,000,000, but this year, there is nothing. Are we saying that there are no arrears to settle? I seek further clarification on Activities 15 – Zambia State Insurance Corporation – K2,000,000,000,  16 – Zambia Development Agency – K32,000,000,000, 17 – National Housing Authority – K5,000,000,000, 18 – Mupepetwe Company Limited  –  K2,500,000,000 and 19 –  Repayment of Interest on Mize Purchase Loan – K20,277,200,000. I would like to find out how these companies were operating previously because there was no recapitalisation in the past few years. Yet, the recapitalisation is coming, now, especially on ZISC when we have already been told in the House that ZISC had made a profit. Why are you recapitalising and providing more funds to it when it was making a profit?

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe:  Mr Chairperson, on Programme 24, Activity 13 – Maize Support (Arrears) – Nil, last year, there was K137,000,000,000. This provision is for arrears which is one of the provision for payment of arrears on the maize price support for particularly the 2009 to 2010 farming season.

Mr Chairperson, on Programme 24, Activities 15 – Zambia State Insurance Corporation – K2,000,000,000, that allocation is not recapitalisation, but payment for services which they have provided to Government in the form of insurance and the Government then pays ZISC. Therefore, it is for a service and not recapitalisation as the hon. Member has concluded.

Mr Chairperson, on Programme 24, Activity 16 – Zambia Development Agency – K32,000,000,000, these are to cater for the institutions which were amalgamated into ZDA. They do not have assets, therefore, we have taken over liquidation of those liabilities. That also applies to the other two activities .

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 21/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

_______

The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 10th November, 2010.