DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 17th November, 2010

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

SENSITISATION AND SCREENING EXERCISE FOR DIABETES

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have authorised the Diabetes Association of Zambia to conduct a Voluntary Public Health Screening Clinic for Diabetes Mellitus (sugar disease), Obesity and Hypertension (high blood pressure) for interested hon. Members of Parliament and staff of the National Assembly to be held on Friday, 19th November, 2010 in Committee Room No. 5, here, at the Parliament Buildings from 0900 hours to 1500 hours. All interested hon. Members are invited to participate in this free sensitisation and screening exercise which is aimed at safeguarding personal health.

Thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE DECENTRALISATION REFORMS AND DECENTRALISATION IMPLEMENTATION PLAN FROM 2009 TO 2013
 
The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the nation, through this august House, about the progress which the Government has made in the decentralisation reforms, in general, and Decentralisation Implementation Plan (DIP) from 2009 to 2013 in particular.

Mr Speaker, in his speech during the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly, on 17th September, 2010, His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, reaffirmed the commitment of the Government to the implementation of the National Decentralisation Policy. This affirmation was a timely follow up to the approval of the Decentralisation Implementation Plan (DIP) by Cabinet on 14th December, 2009.

Since the approval of this plan, the Government has made much progress towards its implementation and it is now my pleasure to give a detailed statement on the progress made so far.

Background

Sir, allow me to preface my statement with a brief background of the Decentralisation Reform Programme.

Public Sector Reforms

Mr Speaker, when the Republic of Zambia reverted to plural politics in 1991, the Government recognised the need to undertake complementary reforms in various sectors, particularly, in the area of the economy and Public Service in order to orient these crucial sectors to provide an appropriately supportive framework for the nation’s new democratic dispensation. With specific regard to the public sector, the Government committed itself to undertaking broad-based and long-term reforms with the overall goal of enhancing the capacity and performance of the Public Service to meet the expectations and obligations of the Government. In pursuit of this objective, the Government developed the Public Service Reform Programme (PSRP). This programme specifically aims to:

(a) democratise decision making through a wider use of consultative processes;

(b) improve the Government capacity to analyse and implement national policies and perform its appropriate functions;

(c) effectively manage public expenditure to meet fiscal stabilisation objectives; and

(d) make the Public Service more efficient and responsive to the needs of the country’s population.

The PSRP includes the Public Service Management (PSM), Public Expenditure Management Financial Accountability (PEMFA) as well as decentralisation and strengthening of local government. Through this last component, the Government aims at improving the delivery of basic services through decentralising various functions and resources from the Civil Service to democratically-elected councils.

Mr Speaker, through the PSRP, the Government took the first steps towards decentralisation through deconcentration of basic education, agriculture extension and primary health care functions to district level in the mid 1990s. The water supply functions were devolved to the councils during this period.

In order to define and determine the overall implementation of the Decentralisation Policy across the public sector, the Government undertook a broad-based basic process of public consultation, between 1995 and 1996, which culminated in the development of the National Decentralisation Policy. This policy was adopted by Cabinet in November, 2002 and later launched by His Excellency the President on 20th August, 2004.

National Decentralisation Policy Vision and Objectives

Mr Speaker, the vision of the Government is to achieve a fully decentralised and democratically elected system of governance characterised by open, predictable and transparent policy making and implementation processes, effective community participation in decision making, development and administration of their local affairs while maintaining sufficient linkages between the centre and the periphery. The specific objectives are to:

(i) empower local communities by devolving the decision-making authority, functions and resources from the centre to the lowest level with matching financial resources in order to improve efficiency and effectiveness in the delivery of services;

(ii) design and implement mechanisms to ensure a ‘bottom-up’ flow of integrated development planning and budgeting from the districts to the Central Government;

(iii) enhance political and administrative authority in order to effectively and efficiently deliver services at the lowest level;

(iv) promote accountability and transparency in the management and utilisation of resources;

(v) develop the capacity of councils and communities in development planning, financing, co-ordinating and managing the delivery of services in their areas;

(vi) build capacity for development and maintenance of infrastructure at local level;

(vii) introduce an integrated budget for district development and management; and

(viii) provide a legal and institutional framework to promote autonomy in decision making at local level.

The DIP

Mr Speaker, the implementation of the Decentralisation Policy is guided by a detailed DIP which serves as the overall Government roadmap that guides the implementation of all activities specified under the policy. The DIP was approved by Cabinet on 14th December, 2009 and will run for five years up to 2013.

Sir, the DIP was specifically formulated to meet the following objectives:

 (i) clearly articulate implementation components of the decentralisation process;

 (ii) define the steps, prioritisation and sequence of the components or activities;

 (iii) provide a guide for the preparation of detailed annual work plans for each component;

 (iv) provide the background and rationale for the proposed interventions, their timing and duration;

 (v) indicate linkages between the major activities;

 (vi) estimate the DIP resource requirements for its effective implementation;

 (vii) outline the institutional framework for implementing the policy and how the implementation process and inputs from the various stakeholders will be co-ordinated monitored and evaluated; and

 (viii) indicate the financial mechanisms for the plan.

Current Progress

Mr Speaker, following the definitive affirmation of the Government’s political will to implement the decentralisation reforms, as demonstrated through the approval of the DIP, the ministry and other stakeholders have worked to accelerate the implementation process in the following components of the plan:

Sector Devolution

Sir, sector devolution, which is the actual transfer of functions, together with matching resources to councils is the backbone of the Decentralisation Policy. Under this component, the Government has identified and detailed all functions designated for devolution to councils under the policy. All affected ministries are presently at different stages in the development of their sector devolution plans. It is planned that some ministries, including the Ministry of Education, will finalise the devolution plans within 2010 while the rest will conclude their plans by the second quarter of 2011. Each ministry has factored this element in its 2011 Budget to complete their sector devolution plans. Our target is to secure Cabinet approval for these plans in 2011 in readiness for sector devolution to commence in 2012.

The Organisational Structure

Mr Speaker, the bulk of the managerial, technical and financial capacity needed to realise the Government’s vision for decentralisation is already available in the districts in the form of line departments of the Civil Service. The primary thrust of the DIP is, therefore, to facilitate the devolution of designated parts of this capacity to councils. This is a way of strengthening the local government system and improving overall efficiency in service delivery in line with the provisions of the Decentralisation Policy.

 In order to facilitate this process, I am pleased to report that the Government has already developed new organisational structures for all city, municipal and district councils in line with the Decentralisation Policy. These structures are currently being assessed for their cost implications. This process is expected to be completed in 2011.

Public Sensitisation and Civic Education

Mr Speaker, since the approval of the DIP, the Government has also continued to undertake sensitisation and civic education campaigns to inform the public about the policy and its planned implementation arrangements.

The policy has been translated into all seven major languages and disseminated to every part of the country.

Legal Reforms

Mr Speaker, Zambia has a legislative framework that broadly supports decentralisation. This situation arises as a consequence of a past period during which various functions that are now performed by the Central Government were performed by councils.

In order to facilitate the development of legislation that will drive the current decentralisation initiative, effort is being undertaken in a twofold approach. On one hand, the Local Government Act Cap 281 of the Laws of Zambia is being amended to provide for new elements such as the enhanced participation of citizens in local government. On the other hand, the Government is amending sector legislation to allow for the devolution of functions designated under these sectors. Progress in this component is underway in the sectors of local government and education. Progress in other sectors awaits the finalisation of respective sector devolution plans.

Capacity Development

Mr Speaker, the primary strategy that the Government intends to use to uplift the human resource capacities of councils is the operationalisation of the Local Government Service Commission. This strategy will enable the uplifting of capacities in councils before devolution and also facilitate the transfer of affected personnel to councils as part of the devolution process.

I am pleased to inform this House that, following the approval of the DIP, the Government has prepared, and this House has passed legislation to re-establish the Local Government Service Commission. The commission will be in charge of personnel at principal and officer levels in the Local Government Service.

Sir, as part of the above strategy, the Government is currently developing a comprehensive capacity development programme for decentralisation implementation. The first part of this process, which involves undertaking a baseline survey to assess the existing capacity and capacity gaps in skills needed to implement the policy in councils, provincial offices and headquarters of the ministry, is underway. Meanwhile, an interim capacity development programme, including such areas of training in leadership and Activity Based Budgeting (ABB) is being implemented. Other training areas, including change management, will be implemented starting in 2011.

Further, to facilitate the introduction of Information and Communication Technology (ICT) in the management of councils and provincial offices, the ministry has procured and is expanding a wide area network to connect all councils. By July, 2010, thirty-three of the seventy-two councils were connected to the ministry’s headquarters. These are focused strategies that will ensure success of our decentralisation process.

Local Development Planning

Mr Speaker, an important element of the Decentralisation Policy is the introduction, in every ward, of the Area Development Committees (ADCs). These are intended to bring the Government closer to the people and afford them an opportunity to participate more effectively in their local affairs. I am pleased to report that since the approval of the DIP, the Government has concluded a detailed consultative process on the establishment of these committees. This report will shortly be tabled before Cabinet and, following its approval, appropriate legislation will be developed to facilitate the establishment of the committees. The ministry anticipates commencing the establishment of ADCs in 2011.

In addition to the foregoing, the ministry also prepared the Urban and Regional Planning Bill. Once this is enacted into law, the functions of planning authorities, under the Town and Country Planning Act, will be devolved to all councils, including district councils. All councils will, thereby, become planning authorities in their own right and be responsible to develop and implement the integrated development plans in a participatory manner. Commencement of this process is anticipated in 2011.

Financial Management and Accounting

Mr Speaker, in order to improve the financial management and accounting of councils and subsequently facilitate devolution of functions, a new integrated chart of accounts has been developed and disseminated to all councils. With this chart, councils will use the same account classifications and codes as the ones the Central Government uses. This will allow councils to apply the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) just as the Central Government does and this will improve the public financial management of the Government as a whole. My ministry, in collaboration with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, is conducting the piloting of the introduction of the MTEF to seven councils in 2010. The MTEF will be rolled out to all the councils in 2011.

Fiscal Decentralisation

Sir, fiscal decentralisation relates to the assignment of mandates and revenues as well as revenue sources between the Central Government and councils. It aims at ensuring that there is a balance between mandates and resources at all levels to avoid the incidence of unfunded mandates, especially at the local level.

Mr Speaker, since the approval of DIP, my ministry has revised the format of all the grants to councils. In 2010, restructuring and recurrent grants have been disbursed on the basis of a new revised formula which objectively takes care of the developmental status of each district. This formula-based approach will be revised for the 2011 Budget and onwards. In order to inculcate a performance-oriented approach into the councils, a performance assessment system for councils is also being developed. The performance of councils will henceforth be considered as one of the key elements to determine the allocation of grants.

In addition to the above, my ministry, in collaboration with stakeholders, is working out a holistic review of the revenue assignments between the Central Government and councils in accordance with expenditure assignments after devolution. This will entail a revision of an inter-governmental fiscal relationship between the Central Government and the councils to include tax reform, grants reform and local government revenue reform. As part of the preparation for this process, the ministry has been consolidating the information of the disbursement and utilisation of the grants to councils and aims to develop a database of the financial information of the councils.

In order to improve the councils’ revenue base, the ministry is in the process of reviewing the Rating Act to simplify the updating process of the valuation rolls. The ministry is also encouraging affected councils to make use of municipal revenue opportunities provided for in various pieces of sector legislation such as the Mines and Minerals Act and the Forestry Act.

Implementation Approach

Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware that there is a lot of anxiety at the district and sub-district levels of the country to expedite the decentralisation process. However, international experience has shown that a hurried up ‘big bang’ approach poses tremendous risks such as the possible creation of a vacuum of service delivery in some parts of the country. Thus, while my ministry will take all the necessary measures to ensure the speedy implementation of decentralisation, it will also take caution to ensure the sustainable implementation of the reforms. Further, my ministry has taken into account the available resource envelope and the adaptability to changes of the society, as a whole, to set the pace of implementation of a comprehensive programme of DIP.

Mr Speaker, I am glad to inform the House and the nation that, following the approval of DIP, the Government is on course to show concrete outputs and outcomes of decentralisation and, once the devolution plans of the devolving ministries are finalised, early next year, the implementation process will be accelerated.

Mr Speaker, may I, in conclusion, take this opportunity to express my sincere appreciation and gratitude to all stakeholders who are working with the Government in various ways to ensure the successful implementation of this complex reform process. Only the attainment of our collective vision of empowering citizens to participate meaningfully in the development of this country can be a worthy reward in this quest.

I, therefore, urge them to be untiring in their support until the implementation of DIP and achievements of the objectives of the Decentralisation Policy are attained.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members may now ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement that has just been made by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is aware that one of the major tenets of decentralisation is to devolve power to duly-elected representatives of the people at the local government level. If he is aware, can he confirm that the provisions of Section 88 of the current Local Government Act, which the hon. Minister is applying to suspend councils that are not, in his view, in good books with the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, are complying with the …

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … tenets of democracy as it is obtaining in Livingstone?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in fact, I anticipated that question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central. Clearly, we are aware of this and it has to be emphasised that councils are agents of the Central Government. Fifty per cent of the members of the council the hon. Member has referred to are MMD. Therefore, he cannot say we are being discriminatory. However, where something has gone wrong, the Central Government has a duty to protect the citizens.

Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: I will take this opportunity of the continued suspension of the Livingstone Municipal Council to verify a very saddening audit report of the Livingstone Municipal Council. This is important because with information so verified, we can have a new lease of life at the Livingstone Municipal Council.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has been quite expressive, but I am worried because …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Do you have any question?

Laughter

Mr Chota: Yes, Sir.

I would like the hon. Minister to tell us the roadmap regarding manpower development and training because he has talked about issues such as uplifting the capacity of councils, but not manpower development which is lacking. Actually, we do not have qualified manpower in the councils.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, my statement was fairly comprehensive on the process of institutional and human resource capacity building. I stated that the programme to take into account the issues of human resource development is nearing completion. One of the delaying factors has been that comprehensive human resource development cannot be undertaken in the absence of information, hence the basic survey I mentioned. We have an input in altering the human resource capacity building for the councils.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, the terms ‘decentralisation’ and ‘devolution’, or whatever language you want to use simply mean power to the people. If that is the understanding, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Any question?

Mr Matongo: Sir, the question is, there are two gaps …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Do you have a question?

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, when is the hon. Minister going to consider the creation of more districts such as Mumbezhi, Pemba, Mulobezi and Ikelenge as part of the decentralisation process, which is a way of giving power to the people.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the creation of districts or other institutions is a prerogative of the President. In this process, as we decentralise, clearly, there are gaps, but the focus is on service delivery in the areas of jurisdiction. Only after that can we start thinking of creating other structures but, as I said, that is a prerogative of His Excellency the President.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, what will be the difference between the RDCs which we have now and the Area Development Committees (ADCs)which the hon. Minister has told us about today?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that focused question.

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is really a matter of terminology. In wards, particularly in the rural setting, it is more appropriate to refer to the committees as ADCs. In the urban areas, we refer to them as RDCs. Really, they are one and the same thing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, what contributions are the ADCs making in rural areas?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the ADCs’ contribution arises from the fact that even without very-well developed capacity, they assist, to some extent, in the planning of where development should take place. They also assist in the actual monitoring of the planned developmental projects that are taking place. They are a link between the local communities and the councils.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, in 2007, during the reign of Hon. Masebo at the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, there were two consultancies to cost the decentralisation process. May I find out from the hon. Minister what the total cost of decentralisation implementation up to completion point was.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I referred to the organisational structure. In this restructuring, clearly, I am aware of that commissioned consultancy, but it is part of the plans that we have in the decentralisation process. We have not reached concluded the total cost yet because that will depend on approval of the structures by Cabinet when that is presented.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister appealed for patience from stakeholders in the implementation of DIP. May I find out from him whether he is aware of the fact that the decentralisation process in Zambia dates back to 1965. If he is aware, may he indicate when the finalisation …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I have a problem hearing you. There is debate going on over there (pointing at hon. Government Members) and I cannot follow the debate of the hon. Member on the Floor.

May you, please, start all over again?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I was saying that, in his statement, the hon. Minister appealed for patience from stakeholders in the implementation of DIP. I was wondering whether he is aware of the fact that the decentralisation process in Zambia dates back to 1965. If he is aware, may he indicate to this House and nation what programme he has put in place to ensure that the most vital district devolution task forces are established to superintend over the intended decentralisation of various sectors.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, that is an important question and I still want to appeal for patience. The big bang procedure of introduction of decentralisation has brought chaos in countries that took that route. There are many countries, for instance, Spain and others that, indeed, took decades because by nature, decentralisation is complex. Decentralisation has to keep pace with many factors such as local, political, environmental and cultural factors.

Of course, I am aware of all these issues. Decentralisation is not like a switch. It is a process and processes take long. What is important is to be committed to the roadmap which will guide us.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, throughout his statement, the hon. Minister used the words decentralisation and devolution interchangeably. Does the hon. Minister recognise the difference between these two terms? If he does, when will this country have full devolution which means fully-elected provincial assemblies with revenue raising powers?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, decentralisation and devolution are not the same. Devolution is one form of decentralisation. The other would be de-concentration, a process that we have been following, for instance, in the ministries of Education and Agriculture and Co-operatives in extension services. That is de-concentration from the centre. You also have a form of decentralisation called delegation. Therefore, I think that I have made it very clear that the two are not synonymous.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, given that the implementation of DIP is underway, is the hon. Minister aware that the glaring disparities in manpower competence in district councils is such that this process cannot be implemented holistically? Has he taken this into account in order to come up with a roadmap that will ensure a selective implementation of the process so that we do not have pandemonium like in other countries?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this question was comprehensively tackled in my statement. The baseline survey which was undertaken through the consultancy provision and, most importantly, the passing of legislation by this august House to put in place a Local Government Service Commission, are all measures meant to ensure that when devolution takes place, in earnest, we have the necessary competences at council level. Based upon the information that we gathered, we will not implement the programme, be it fiscal sense or otherwise, in councils that do not have the requisite qualified staff and systems. 

I mentioned that accountability systems have been put in place in councils so that we have a harmonised financial and accounting system. No council will be left to fend for itself without taking into account its human or institutional capacities. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, from the performance assessment that was undertaken, how many councils in the country can take on board decentralisation without waiting for other councils that are still involved in capacity building?

 Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the purpose of decentralisation, in view of the fact that there will be more responsibilities, is basically to ensure that all the councils are on a par in terms of performance. As a result of these new responsibilities, functions and systems, no council is ready for devolution.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.
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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS NEWSPAPER SALES

166. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) (on behalf of Mr Mwango) (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services how many copies of newspapers were sold by the following public institutions in 2009:

(a) Times of Zambia;

(b) Sunday Times;

(c) Zambia Daily Mail; and

(d) Sunday Mail.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Ms Cifire): Mr Speaker, newspaper sales in 2009 for public institutions were as follows:

 Institution Sales (copies)

 Times of Zambia 2,983,211  

 Sunday Times 248,237

 Zambia Daily Mail 2,239,388

 Sunday Mail 684,847

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the sales from the public institutions have been going up. If not, why?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, to be able to make a comparison, we would need to have added a few more years to the question. If the hon. Member wishes, he can give us the specific years for us to make this comparison.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, Zambia has a population of about 15.2 million. What is the Government doing to ensure that these newspapers are attractive and the readership improves?

Ms Cifire: Mr Speaker, in an endeavour to make the papers attractive, a lot of effort has been made to make them look different from the way they looked before. At the same time, there has been a lot of market research conducted whose finding is that a lot of our citizens are using the papers to sell their merchandise. All this is in an effort to increase not just the clientele in terms of readership, but also sales for the institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister who pays for the newspapers that are circulated freely to members of the public during by-elections.

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, the question that Hon. Mwiimbu has asked is not for us. Our circulation goes to everyone in the country. Concerning who circulates these papers freely, we have no answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the in-depth coverage of features and …

Mrs Phiri: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the chance to raise a serious point of order on procedure.

Sir, this Parliament approved money which has gone towards the continuous registration of voters. It has also approved money for the mobile issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs).

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out if the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is in order to keep quiet when we have heard stakeholders like the Foundation for Democratic Process (FODEP) complain that there is one fake card which has been used to register over 12,000 voters. Is he in order to keep quiet and not update the nation on what is going on? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Munali wishes to know when the hon. Minister of Home Affairs will clarify the issue regarding what is going to happen to those many voters who share one National Registration Card Number. I consider this to be a pertinent point of order which the hon. Minster responsible should clarify as quickly as possible, but not later than Friday, this week.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Fourteen out of zero!

Mr Speaker: Order! There was no scoring involved here.

 Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

 In this House, we only come to provide useful information to the people of Zambia.

The hon. Member for Namwala was raising a supplementary question.

May he continue.

Major Chizhyuka: Sir, I was saying that the coverage of developmental stories in the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia is very profound. When will the hon. Minister ensure that the circulation of these newspapers reaches Shang’ombo, Kaputa and Namwala on a daily basis so that the readership in the rural areas can undertake a comparative analysis of the stories that they read in the newspapers. When are you going to facilitate the circulation of these newspapers on a daily basis to the most far-flung areas in the entire country?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank Hon. Major Chizhyuka for that very important question. I would also like to thank him for the fact that he has noticed that our newspapers do not print ‘bubble gum’ stories, but go for feature articles so that the readers can fully understand what is being talked about.

Sir, we have gone ahead to put plans in place to have the circulation of our newspapers reach all the parts of the country. One of the key areas in this regard is the provision of new print machines that are able to print quicker. The Zambia Daily Mail already has such a machine. The Times of Zambia will soon put in place such machinery so that the distribution of the newspapers can be done much earlier and to all parts of the country.

 I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, it is normal to give newspapers’ circulation figures on a daily basis and not on an annual basis. When one does the mathematical calculations, it would appear to him or her as if the Times of Zambia has a circulation of only about 10,000 copies a day while the Zambia Daily Mail has about 7,000 copies and the Sunday papers have, as somebody tells me, a circulation of about 5,000 copies. Can the hon. Minister confirm that these trivial numbers are, in fact, close to the average figures which these newspapers supply to their advertisers?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm whether the assertion by Hon. Dr Scott is true or not.
 
I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, my question has already been tackled. 

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is not high time these two newspapers, the Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail we merged so that we have one Government paper that is effective because the workers will have improved conditions of services.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, both these newspapers are very effective in their own ways. The conditions of service for the workers are improved from time to time. The conditions of service for the Zambia Daily Mail and Times of Zambia employees are continuously revised.

 I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell the nation whether the newspapers that are not sold on a daily basis are accounted for countrywide.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, yes, I can confirm that the newspapers that are not sold are counted. Indeed, the newspapers take care of the areas that need to be attended to and ensure that the next circulation takes into account the figure of the newspapers that were not sold.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MINING DEVELOMENT AGREEMNTS

167. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) when discussions between the Government and the mining companies to review the development agreements would be concluded;

(b) what the economic benefits of these discussions to the Government would be; and

(c) what had caused the delay in concluding the discussions.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, discussions with the mining companies have reached an advanced stage and will be concluded before the end of this year.

Mr Speaker, the economic benefits of these discussions are that instead of going through litigation as provided for in the development agreements, which is a very long and costly process, the Government will have avoided such a process and its related costs by reaching an amicable settlement of the outstanding issues while, at the same time, preserving the conducive investment environment for the mining industry. This means that investment in-flows will continue and this can be evidenced by the recent launch of a new mining company called Konoco that was recently launched. In addition, tax arrears will be addressed. Further, the mining companies will move onto the new mining tax regime and will, therefore, be contributing more than they otherwise would have been contributing under the old development agreements.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the assertion that the negotiations have delayed, I wish to assure the House that there has been no undue delay in the negotiations. The negotiations are concluded in accordance with our timeline, taking into account the need for wider consultations so that any consensus reached is acceptable to both parties.

Sir, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why up to now, some mining companies do not pay taxes such as ground rates under the current development agreements.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, the explanation has been given through our answer which is that some of the companies feel that when the development agreements were abrogated, they were exempted from paying certain taxes either partially or in full. Therefore, it has been necessary to hold discussions, as the hon. Deputy Minister has said, so that this matter can be concluded amicably without going through expensive litigation processes.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.
   
Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, it is good that discussions are on-going and that they will be concluded at the end of this month. However, what will happen to those disciplined mining companies that accepted to pay certain taxes that you know, but have not done so? Will they pay before or after the discussions?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, when the discussions are concluded, the Government will make its position on the issue very clear and this will be communicated to all the mining companies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister, please, clarify what is meant by reviewing development agreements. This question is in view of the fact that the Mining and Minerals Development Act of 2008 nullified all development agreements.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: What is it that is being reviewed in this case? Or are we now throwing to the wind the provisions of the Mines and Minerals Development Act that was passed by this House in 2008?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the meaning of the word ‘reviewing’ in this context is to see whether there are aspects of the development agreements that the Government could still consider to provide to the mining companies.

Mr Lubinda: Outside the law!

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, allow me to also add that, in the letter that I laid on the Table here in the House, the President of the Patriotic Front (PF) Party, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Dr Musokotwane: … in the letter that I laid on the Table of the House …

Mr Kambwili: Tawakwata ifya kulanda!

Dr Musokotwane: … condemned this Government for abrogating the development agreements. Therefore, I am very surprised that the hon. Member who asked the question can talk like that when his own president …

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: … condemned the Government for abrogating the development agreements.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I sincerely apologise to my colleague who was just starting to ask his supplementary question. However, is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in order to bring in a person who is outside this House and not part of his Government in answering my very clear question on whether his Government has decided to do away with the Mines and Minerals Development Act of  2008, whose effect was to nullify all development agreements, and doing so without paying regard to the fact that no one is above the law? Is he in order to answer in such a trivial manner?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata was the one who asked, as he has said, the question regarding this House ignoring the fact that an Act of Parliament, which was passed here, abolished those development agreements. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is rebating your claim by saying that there were, as you and I heard him, aspects of those development agreements which required reviewing and he defined what he meant by that. He followed it up, buttressing his argument, by stating that even certain leaders of political parties were in agreement with what he was doing. This is because, according to him, he did lay a letter on the Table of the House containing those arguments. I hope the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata had an opportunity to study the contents of that letter.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi West may continue.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, many countries have found it undesirable to have development agreements with mining companies and they have done away with them in preference for the general and business laws in those countries to govern the general business environment and mining companies. Why has this Government found it expedient to continue pursuing development agreements which other countries have found to be a contributing factor to the exploitation of their mineral resources?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, firstly, the hon. Member has acknowledged that some countries do have development agreements and others do not have them. Therefore, from that statement, it is clear that development agreements are not necessarily a bad thing because there are some countries that have them.

Secondly, when I said that there may be some aspects of the development agreements that could be reviewed, I did not say that the Government was necessarily bringing them back. I was merely saying that there may be issues on those development agreements which could still be useful to have. Obviously, under those circumstances, there is a very strong possibility that there may be other existing laws that could accommodate these aspects without necessarily bringing back the development agreements.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, in order to hasten the process of negotiations, is the Government willing to put a time limit by which discussions or negotiations can be completed so that the mining companies can begin to pay taxes because some of them are paying into escrow accounts instead of paying to the Treasury. Can the Government put a deadline so that these negotiations can be completed?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the answer read out by the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that, by the end of this year, this should all be concluded.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what some of the considerations under review regarding the Kansanshi Mines in Solwezi are so that the people of Solwezi can benefit from their God-given resources.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, obviously, I cannot go through the details, especially at individual company level or even delve into specific issues here because these matters are still being discussed. Suffice to say, in the hon. Deputy Minister’s answer, she outlined a number of aspects of the discussions that will be of benefit to the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister’s answer said that increased taxes, next year, would be one of the results of this review. Can the hon. Minister tell us what he estimates the net loss, as a result of not having the final taxation system in place, over the last four or five years, while the mining industry was holding us to ransom to this country is?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we indicated, in the answer, that there are arrears to be settled, following the conclusion of the discussions that are on-going. At the time the discussions are concluded, we shall give a comprehensive statement on all the details, including the one that the hon. Member has referred to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, in today’s The Post Newspaper, Kansanshi Mine has said that it will be refunded all the taxes it paid under the 2007 mining tax regime. I would like to know whether it is the position of the Government to refund Kansanshi Mine what it paid and, if so, how much will be repaid.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, that statement did not come from the Government spokesperson and that means that it does not state the Government’s position. Therefore, I cannot vouch for its accuracy.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, is the intended listing of the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) on the Lusaka Stock Exchange (LuSe) as a result of the discussions that are taking place and, if it is, which other companies intend to follow suit so that Zambians can participate in mining development?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, on one hand, the decision to list the KCM on both the London and Lusaka Stock exchanges is not necessarily in connection with the discussions that have been going on. However, on the other hand, the Government and, I think, even the people of Zambia have always expressed the desire to have the citizens of the country participate in the enterprises being run in this country.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, the KCM has taken the lead because, just this morning, we were being briefed about the listing that is going to take place. I would like to urge all hon. Members and members of the public, especially those who have complained that they are left out in the ownership of these assets, to translate those complaints into individual positive action and buy shares because this is the time.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Instead of buying expensive motor vehicles or going on expensive trips, this is the time for you to invest. If you lose out, do not complain that the Government stopped you. It will be entirely up to you.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri: Brazil!

___________{mospagebreak}

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

(Consideration resumed)

Vote 89/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/32 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives – Lusaka Province – Provincial Agriculture Coordinating Office – K8,542,917,125).

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 1351, Programme 10, Activity 04 – Farm Block Development – Nil. Can I find out which farm block was developed or is being developed, this year, using the money that was allocated in the 2010 Budget and why there in no allocation for 2011, whatsoever, for further farm block development in Lusaka Province?

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Mr Chairperson, the money that was allocated for this activity in 2010 has not yet been utilised because we are still negotiating for land. This is why we have not allocated any more money thereto in 2011.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, given the fact that any money that is not utilised at the close of the financial year returns to Head 99, can I find out from the hon. Minister where he will get the money from if he finds the land on which to develop a farm block for the people of Lusaka when it is not being requested for in the 2011 Budget.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member is forgetting that we are still in 2010 because the year has not yet ended.

Interruptions

Mr Mulonga: Any money that is committed, but is not used is not taken back to the Treasury.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 89/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/33 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives – Lusaka Province – District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K1,285,630,307).

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 1354, Programme 21, Activity 04 – Monitoring of FISP Beneficiaries – K6,965,000. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what little activities he envisages five districts will undertake when they are being allocated a small figure of only K6,965,000 for monitoring of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) beneficiaries. Would you read to us the activities that you anticipate the District Co-ordinating Officers to undertake.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Lubinda is always known for misleading the nation as he has done just now.

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you, please, answer the question and avoid making insinuations.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Chairperson, on page 1354, Programme 21, Co-operative Development (PRP), Activity 04 – Monitoring of FISP Beneficiaries – K6,965,000, this amount is only for Lusaka District and not Lusaka Province. We are now dealing with the districts and not provinces.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Chairperson, I hope the hon. Minister will answer without innuendos.

The Deputy Chairperson: Ask your question!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 1353, Programme 8 District Agricultural Co-ordination – (PRP), Activity 01 – Office Administration K19,450,000 and Activity 03 – Financial Management and Accounting, K22,950,000. I would like to find out why Office Administration of the entire department has been allocated only K19,450,000 and Financial Management and Accounting has been allocated K22,950,000.

Secondly, on Programme 9, Activity 04 – Marketing Infrastructure – K10,850,000, I would like to find out what this amount is for? Is it for building infrastructure and, if this is so, what kind of infrastructure can you build from K10,850,000?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Chairperson, on page 1353, Programme 8 District Agricultural Co-ordination – (PRP), Activity 01 – Office Administration K19,450,000, we have decentralised the system. The activities will be taking place at district level. This is why there is Financial Management and Accounting, a department that is involved in backstopping and monitoring in camps as well blocks.

As regards Programme 9, Activity 04 – Marketing Infrastructure – K10,850,000, last year, we allocated this line some money and if the hon. Member has seen it, he will notice that there is an increase. However, we only managed to allocate this figure because of the budgetary constraints and it is not enough.

Mr Kambwili: To build what, toilets?

Mr Mulonga: I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, obviously the hon. Deputy Minister did not answer my question. Could he, please, clarify what activities are to be undertaken for the amount of money that is allocated on Programme 21, Activity 04 – Monitoring of FISP Beneficiaries – K6,965,000. Please, can he read out the activities because this is an activity-based budget and he must not run away from answering questions.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Chairperson, I said that we are now dealing with the districts, hence, if he checks this line under Luangwa District, he will find the same activity indicated. The same applies to Kafue and Chongwe that have this vote with the same amount for monitoring of FISP beneficiaries in the districts. Previously, when it was a centralised system, money was kept at the province and it used to look like a big figure. Now that it has been decentralised into districts, each district will monitor its own activities and the figure looks small.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 89/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 64/01 – (Ministry of Works and Supply – Headquarters – K151,183,109,618).

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Chairperson, it is my great pleasure and honour to stand and give a brief policy statement on the 2011 Activity-Based Budget for the Ministry of Works and Supply to this august House.

Mr Chairperson, the Government has placed a lot of emphasis on infrastructure development throughout the country. This has been re-enforced by the Sixth National Development Plan whose main strategic focus hinges on infrastructure development. We are all aware that there will be no sustainable economic development and growth unless our roads and other key infrastructure are in good condition. Our roads have strategic importance as they serve as international trade links to Zambia’s neighbours and the rest of the world.

Mr Chairperson, therefore, my ministry is charged with the responsibility of addressing policy issues in the following areas:

(i) building and construction industry;

(ii)  Government housing;

(iii) construction and maintenance of roads;

(iv) Government transport control;

(v) Government printing and gazettes;

(vi) hostels and rest houses;

(vii) office accommodation and maintenance services and physical arrangement of State functions.

Mr Chairperson, the following departments exist in the ministry:

(a) Human Resource and Administration;

(b)  Buildings Department;

(c)  Government Printing Department;

(d)  Office Equipment Maintenance Services Department; and

(e) Planning and Monitoring Department.

In addition, my ministry has the following statutory institutions through which it implements some of its functions:

(a) Road Development Agency;

(b)  National Council for Construction (NCC);

(c)  Hostels Board of Management; and

(d) Engineering Services Corporation known as ESCO.

Sector Performs – Roads Sub sector

Mr Chairperson, during the first and second quarter of 2010, the Government continued to carry out various activities that included construction, rehabilitation and maintenance of road infrastructure network in line with the 2010 Annual Work Plan and the ROADSIP II.

Sir, ROADSIP II is focusing on promoting equitable economic growth and better living conditions in Zambia by bringing about sustainable improvement in the condition of transport infrastructure through rehabilitation and maintenance of 40,113 km of the core road network at an estimated cost of US$1.6 billion.

Mr Chairperson, rehabilitation of paved roads by the end of the second quarter registered 26.5 per cent progress, which translates into 69.02 kilometres of the yearly target of 260.88 km length of urban trunk, main and district roads.

The rehabilitation of unpaved roads recorded a total length of 579.4 km of achieved road length in 2010 against a yearly target of 775.81 km urban, trunk, and main district roads, translating into 74 per cent progress.

This performance was greatly enhanced by rehabilitation of unpaved feeder roads under the Agricultural Development Support Projects (ADSP) that had a significant contribution in the Eastern, Lusaka and Southern provinces.

Maintenance of Paved and Unpaved Roads

Mr Chairperson, a total of 5,576.9 km of paved road length underwent periodic and routine maintenance by the end of the second quarter against the yearly target of 10,257.76 km, translating into 54.4 per cent performance. The maintenance of unpaved roads was relatively low by the end of the second quarter because some routine maintenance projects could not be commissioned, as they were still under procurement and others had just started. The yearly target for maintenance of unpaved roads was 21,861.21 km, but only 4,032.13 km were worked on, translating into 18.4 per cent overall performance.

Bridge and Pontoon Programmes

Mr Chairperson, during the second quarter of 2010, the Government continued the programme of constructing bridges. In this regard, the construction of three bridges in the Nansanga Farm Block in the Central Province, namely Luombwa, Ifuna and Nyamanda at a cost of K14 billion made good progress. The construction of these bridges will enhance agricultural activities by providing vital links on the roads in the area.

Mr Chairperson, the Government also completed the construction and reinstatement of priority river crossings, thirty structures in Luapula, thirty-four in the Northern Province and thirty-nine in four national parks with a loan obtained from the World Bank. Twenty-nine structures in the North-Western Province and eighty-three in the Eastern Province received attention with financing from the World Bank under budget support.

Mr Chairperson, let me mention that by 30th June, 2010, the Government was in the process of procuring contracts for the construction of the Chiawa Bridge Crossing on the Kafue River, Mufuchani Bridge across the Kafue River in Kitwe, Zambezi Bridge at Maziba between Senanga and Shang’ombo districts in the Western Province, Mbesuma Bridge on the Chambeshi River in the Northern Province, Matumbo Bridge over the Luangwa River in the Eastern Province and a bridge at Lufubu River crossing in the Nsumbu National Park in Kaputa District of the Northern Province.

Mr Chairperson, let me also inform this august House that progress has been made in the designing of the bridge and border facilities at Kazungula and construction is expected to commence before the end of 2011.

Axle Load Control Programme

Mr Chairperson, with continued effort in reducing overloading on Zambian roads, the Government continued implementing the Axle Load Road Control Programme whose main target is to reduce the overloaded vehicles from more than 20 per cent to less than 5 per cent for axles and from more than 55 per cent to less than 5 per cent for gross vehicle mass (GVM). The goal of the programme is to contribute to a sustainable road network by substantially reducing road damage and risks of traffic accident caused by overloading.

In light of the above, the Government completed major construction works on electronic weigh bridges in Livingstone, Mpika, Solwezi and Kazungula. There are also plans to construct new weigh bridges at Kafue, Mumbwa, Kasumbalesa, Kasangano and a weigh bridge on the Great East Road.

Buildings Sub-sector

Mr Chairperson, the Government has continued the construction of one-stop-border post facilities at all the busy border posts. The construction of border facilities at Kasumbalesa and Nakonde has reached an advanced stage.

Other developments are the rehabilitation and construction of other Government buildings in different sectors such as technical education, agriculture, health, home affairs, education, tourism, mining and defence and security.

Regulation of the Construction Industry

Mr Chairperson, my ministry, through the NCC, is mandated to regulate the construction industry. The activities of the NCC include promotion, development, training and regulation of the construction industry, thereby facilitating an enabling environment for the construction industry and its constituents.

The NCC has achieved notable success ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was talking about the NCC.

Mr Chairperson, the NCC has achieved notable success since its establishment in 2004. The council has managed to open the Northern Region Office in Kitwe and this has helped increase the number of registered contractors from 1,809 in 2009 and 2,700 in 2010. The increase in the number of registered contractors has been responsible for the increase in the registration fees being collected. In 2009, the council collected K4,955,345,000 and in 2010, was able to collect over K5.1 billion as registration fees. The NCC has continued to build capacity among the small-scale contractors by offering courses that would give them the skills that are needed for them to take on larger jobs.

Policy Developments

Mr Chairperson, as you are aware, the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) is coming to an end and will be replaced by the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) whose strategic focus is infrastructure development and human development. Therefore, during the period of the SNDP, the Government will continue to invest in infrastructure development, as it is the key to economic progress and a means to achieving the millennium development goals (MDGs) and the National Vision 2030.

Mr Chairperson, the Government has put infrastructure development on its priority agenda to attain meaningful socio-economic development, as it is a means of wealth and employment creation and plays a pivotal role in fostering trade, economic growth, production and social development. My ministry is committed to public infrastructure development by including most of the major projects in the SNDP.

Mr Chairperson, the 2011-2013 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) is the first under the SNDP. Therefore, the Government will continue recognising the important role of infrastructure development as an engine for economic growth by facilitating efficient movement of goods and services.
 
Mr Chairperson, my ministry has embarked on the construction and rehabilitation of major roads in the country. I am delighted to inform the House that the Choma/Namwala Road was finally completed. Works on the Zimba/Livingstone, Kasama/Luwingu, Chipata/Lundazi, Chipata/Mfuwe, Kabompo/Chavuma, Serenje/Mansa, Zambezi/Chavuma and Senanga/Sesheke roads are on going and some of them will be starting very soon. The Mongu/Kalabo Road is also receiving maximum attention from my ministry and so are many others.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Works and Supply is also in the process of reviewing the 2006/2010 Strategic Plan and development of the 2011 to 2015 Strategic Plan. The National Construction Industry Policy is also undergoing review.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry will continue to work with other ministries in developing infrastructure such as schools, colleges, hospitals, clinics, prisons, border posts, housing for defence personnel and sports infrastructure.  Sir, in this regard, the construction of the ultramodern stadium in Ndola is underway and there are also plans to put up ultramodern stadia in Livingstone and Lusaka.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, the Government is also in the process of rehabilitating and upgrading all border posts.

Public-Private Partnerships

Mr Chairperson, the Government is seriously considering private sector financing in the provision of public infrastructure under the public-private partnership arrangement. Sir, under this framework, my ministry has identified a number of road projects for upgrading into dual carriageways and tolling which include the Kitwe/Chingola, Chingola/Solwezi, Mwinilunga/Jimbe, Kafulafuta/Luanshya, Kafue/Livingstone, Lusaka/Kabwe/Ndola and Lusaka/Chirundu roads.

Mr Chairperson, you may wish to know that the Government has also embarked on the construction of 12,000 low-cost housing units in Livingstone, Lusaka and the Copperbelt using private sector financing. This is aimed at providing quality, but affordable accommodation to the low-income groups.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has also embarked on the construction of a Banquet Hall and conference facilities at the new Government Complex in order to facilitate the operations of the Government and other stakeholders.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, my ministry will endeavour to provide quality conference and lodging facilities to the general public through the Hostels Board of Management. Sir, the Livingstone Lodge was recently commissioned while the construction of the Solwezi Lodge has reached an advanced stage. Rehabilitation and maintenance is also going on in other lodges.

Printing Services

Mr Chairperson, finally, as we all know, the country will hold its Presidential, Parliamentary and Local Government Elections in 2011. My ministry, therefore, through the Government Printing Department, has a huge responsibility of printing ballot papers in collaboration with the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ).

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Sir, in view of this, there is a need to equip the department with the necessary machines and put in place resources and security in order to enhance the department’s capacity of printing ballot papers in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I thank you.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Chairperson, I sincerely thank you for the opportunity to debate the Vote for the Ministry of Works and Supply.

Sir, to start with, I support this Vote with gross dismay. I am dismayed by the performance of this ministry. Without the late President Mwanawasa, SC., some people would be walking without shoes, …

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: … but thanks to the heavens, he was kind enough to employ them. However, his legacy has died and may his soul rest in peace.

Mr Chairperson, the problems faced in the valley, starting from the Okavango, passing through Gwembe, Sinazongwe, Siavonga and right up to Chief Mwanya’s area are the same.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: This is one valley from Chief Mwanya right up to the Okavango in Botswana, …

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: … via Mapatizya. For any right-thinking government, the planning of the road network, specifically for the people of the valley who were trans-located from the wetlands of the Zambezi River, is supposed to take these people into account first before anything else.

The late President Mwanawasa, SC., strongly emphasised, in this august House, that the road he code-named Bottom Road would be worked on. That is why I keep making reference to him. Where is the Bottom Road?

Hon. Member: In this Budget?

Mr Muyanda: Where does it start from if not through corruption? President Rupiah Banda, …

Hon. Opposition Member: As Vice-President then.

Mr Muyanda: … used to sit where the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is seated and over here was Brigadier-General Dickson Zulu who had the same problem in Chief Mwanya.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: The problems which he had in that valley are the problems we have in Sinazongwe and the entire valley. You have neglected the people of the valley.

Mr Chairperson, where is the Bottom Road which was initiated by the late President Mwanawasa, SC.? We want to know. Does it mean that when people who propose good policies die, the policies also die with them? Is that the legacy that we are going to leave in this country? Shame upon ourselves!

Ms Tembo: Shame upon you!

Mr Muyanda: At the moment, I hear about roads being constructed in a game park. Today, I hear of road contracts being awarded in areas when it is the Bottom Road that should have been given preference.

Interruptions

Mr Muyanda: Yes, why are you saying, “who” when you were not relocated? We lost our tribal land and we have a bone to chew with any Government that comes into power.

Hon. Government Member: Just speak properly.

Mr Muyanda: This is not a platform for rudeness and falsehoods. We want the Bottom Road constructed.

Interruptions

Mr Muyanda: You are not even ashamed of the type of corruption. Hon. Chairperson, I was the Chairperson of your Committee on Transport and Communications. I had submissions that are documented before your office where corruption was conspicuously the disease related to the Bottom Road which the MMD Government has failed to construct.

Sir, in 2007, the road was completely ruined and not a single responsible person, including the President visited Sinazongwe to see exactly how the Nang’ombe and Sikalamba bridges were damaged. These are the bridges that the colonial masters left us when we were relocated from the wetlands to dry, rocky and hostile terrain.

 I come from a technical background and expect an educated brain, when sitting on the drawing board, to look at the terrain. The people of the valley were forcibly removed from the wetlands. Therefore, as you plan, you must take into account the plight of these people. That is what I expect from a technocrat. I do not expect a technocrat to take a bribe and push in another road in a different direction faster than the Bottom Road.

Mr Chairperson, today, there is no talk regarding the Bottom Road. There is not even a faint proposal that the Sikalamba and Nang’ombe bridges will be worked on. What type of Government is this? Tell us, what type of Government you are part of. Is this the way the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) is going to run this country? I am not the only one moaning over the infrastructure that was ruined by the acts of God. It was an act of God that prevailed in the valley which led to the bridges which were constructed by the colonial Government to be washed away. There is not even a single signal that the Bottom Road will be constructed from Siavonga beyond Mapatizya right up to Livingstone.

Mr Sejani: Yes!

Mr Muyanda: In any case, for any right-thinking Government, that is a strategic road which can jumpstart …

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: … any form of serious tourism and not the artificial tourism that they like to talk about. What tourism can you talk about when you are busy collecting bribes? You have built a good house in one place which you never had before Mwanawasa, SC. died. Do you think that we are blind? We are watching. Be constructive. We, the people of the valley, demand that the Bottom Road be worked on.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: We harboured the freedom fighters for the liberation of Zimbabwe.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: The Zimbabwe Peoples’ Revolutionary Army (ZIPRA) forces were on the ground in that area. The whole area of Mapatizya was a war zone. Who benefited? It is Zimbabwe and South Africa. Why can the people in this Government not remember basic history? What type of planners are you who want to go into a room to draw up plans without thinking of how that community suffered from the liberation of Zimbabwe and South Africa?

Mr Matongo: Get annoyed!

Mr Muyanda: I am very annoyed with the behaviour of certain people in this august House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: I am very angry.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Mr Chairperson, I am not even going to smile.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: This is what anger does when you are talking to a deaf Government.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda:  Please, brothers, in the spirit of further development and for the goodness of mother Zambia, can we remember the late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. who said that corruption is evil and detrimental to the progress of any nation? 

We know that some people somewhere have amassed wealth …

 Mr Sejani: Abuse of office!

Mr Muyanda: … through the abuse of their offices. These people do not even feel shy or ashamed of what they have ‘feloniously’ amassed.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: It is not good to steal from your own people. You must have a sense of shame. Corruption must be condemned by this august House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Muyanda: It must be condemned in its strongest terms because it ruins the entire nation. It is a cancer which cannot be dissected proportionally. When you remove one piece, the replacement is also corrupt. Corruption is at the centre of this debate.

Mr Sejani: It is the Bottom Road!

Mr Muyanda: The Bottom Road is also a key component of my debate. We want the Bottom Road because we suffered twice. We harboured the warlords and defended Zambia in order to liberate Zimbabwe and South Africa. What is our reward for that?

Mr Muntanga: Bottom Road!

 Mr Muyanda: We want the Bottom Road to be upgraded to bituminous standards and not what the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) did. It just brought gravel and used it for backfilling as well as knocked out all the bridges that were there. Today, there is no road between Sinazeze and Chayabi. I expected a responsible hon. Minister to visit the area to see what has happened to the people of the valley. The people who gave up all their land, including their ancestral graves and shrines where they used to pray for the rains in order for the construction of Lake Kariba to take place. To date, no responsible person has ever visited that area. What type of leadership is this? No wonder people reject you through the ballot like the people of Mufumbwe, Solwezi Central and Chilanga constituencies did.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: The people are justified to vote like that because it is in protest against your actions.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Vote for the Ministry of Works and Supply which encompasses basic buildings, office equipment and maintenance as well as preening and printing.

I have noticed that there is a marginal increase in the budget allocation from the K139.9 billion in 2010, to K151.1 billion in the 2011 Budget. This means that there is a marginal increase of about K10 billion. The figures that I have just given out are factual. I want to state that the Ministry of Works and Supply is one of the most expensive institutions to run, if it has to conduct its business properly around the country. Much as I appreciate that some of the major roads that will be funded under this Vote have been shifted to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, I still feel that there was a need for more funds to be allocated to this ministry so as to, firstly, improve its stores management.

I agree with those who believe that there is corruption in the ministry. However, the prescription to the corruption must be analysed and agreed upon.

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: I stand here with nostalgia, remembering the days when the Government used to buy things centrally through Government Stores. What went wrong with that kind of system which led us to preferring the ministries to buy individually? In my view, bulk buying saved money. Sadly, at present, it is no longer there. There are empty buildings somewhere on Mungwi Road. I think we should reconsider replacing departmental procurement with a centralised buying system which helps to save money. The individual procurements by departments have also contributed to the increase in corruption.  I stand here remembering the old system with nostalgia.

Hon. Minister, when we were growing up, a grader was stationed at Pemba. Today, if children who live 5 km from Pemba saw a green grader, they would think it is an elephant because the way it appears would be strange to them.

The Government imported this equipment from China, through Lusaka, then took it to Livingstone at a great cost. I feel sorry for my colleagues in Namwala, Siavonga and Itezhi-tezhi which is nearer to Kafue or Mumbwa because the equipment has to be brought back here at a great cost before being taken there. Both Mumbwa and Kafue are closer to Siavonga from Livingstone. Hon. Minister, would it not have been logical to actually allocate this equipment based on the old system of grading roads when we had camps in place? 

I always have facts when I am debating. As I am talking, the cost of repairing this valuable equipment is very high. In fact, malfunctioning filters have grounded the graders which were taken to Namwala because of a certain occasion. Just filters cost K21 million.

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: Sir, I think that is the figure the hon. Deputy Minister for Southern Province has told me. The rainy season has started with those graders still grounded. Why are we failing to raise the money required to repair these graders so that the rural roads can be graded? I am very certain that if there was a centralised system of buying spares, we would have got them from Government Stores by now. Unfortunately, there is no such arrangement. I wonder if anyone of you, hon. Members from the Southern Province, has seen any of those graders working in the last four months. I found out that the only problem that those graders have are the filters.

Mr Chairperson, as I am speaking, the equipment is there and the rains have come, but nothing is happening. We bought that equipment from China for US$39 billion, but it has been idle for the last six months. This is happening in the Southern Province. The equipment is not able to work because of the malfunctioning filters and the lack of fuel. I do not know about what is happening in other provinces. I take it that decentralisation is a sensible thing which will greatly help this country. With decentralisation in place, I wonder why an administrator has to come from Livingstone to Lusaka with his cap in his hands and on bent knees to beg for K21 million to buy filters. I am very sure that this K21 million is the cost of the MMD Chairperson’s breakfast.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Sir, honestly speaking, when we criticise, we mean well. I would like to state, clearly, that if those road camps still existed and a centralised way of buying things was still in place, these failures would not have been registered. I appeal to the hon. Minister to reconsider reintroducing the centralised buying and storing of things. Most of all, the hon. Minister should reassert himself as he is the one in charge of Government supplies. It is your ostensible responsibility to purchase Government supplies. Even if you are in good books with your Permanent Secretary, you should still remember that your powers are provided for within our statutes. Do not allow these chaps …

Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.  

Mr Matongo:… raising points of order to decentralise the buying of various items.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson:  A point of order is raised.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, I have been listening very attentively to hon. Member of Parliament for Pemba who normally debates extremely well. Is he in order to mislead this House and the nation that K21 million is the amount of money that the MMD Chairperson spends on his breakfast?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The point of order reminds the hon. Member who is debating to debate factually and that he may wish to revisit that statement so as to clarify it.

 May he continue.

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, I will withdraw the issue regarding the MMD Chairperson, but the price which I gave for a filter should be correct unless the hon. Deputy Minister for Southern Province has misled both the hon. Minister of Works and Supply and me. We only need K21 million for the graders in the Southern Province to start working again. If what is required for the machines to be functional was bought centrally from China by Government Stores, those machines would have been working by now. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! You said that K21 million is used by the Chairperson of the MMD for breakfast and that is the point on which the hon. Minister raised a point of order.

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, everybody was listening. I said that I had withdrawn that statement. My colleagues, who are his cousins, contend that his breakfast costs more than K30,000 now.  It is his cousins who are saying that and not me.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, my brothers in the Ministry of Works and Supply must reassert their ostensible authority so that they can reorganise the Government Printers so that it can get to do its work. As a country, we should be ashamed of the way we do certain things. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will agree with me that, surely, we do not have to fly all the way to Durban just to print a ballot paper. Even if we do not trust each other, I think that is not the way we should do things. Why should we allow a private company to print our ballot papers when we have a Government in place? In the past, we used to do such things on our own. I always keep saying that each person should do things according to his or her means. Our means in Zambia are much greater than the company that prints our ballot papers in South Africa. Why should we give our own hard-earned income with foreigners just because we do not trust each other and lack integrity? We should be able to reduce some of these expenses by undertaking some of these things locally.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to address my good friend, the hon. Minister, now that the RDA seems to be behind us. Let us not dwell on the past. Let us urge the contractors, especially the one that was supposed to grade the road from Pemba, Jembo, Mambo, Kauba, Kasikili up to the Tobacco Board of Zambia (TBZ) offices in Kanchomba to do the work now. The needful has been done by the suspicions being cleared. The culprits who were misusing resources are no longer of my interest because they are before the courts. The Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau (KFW) and Germany Government must be sympathetic to the plight of the people of Pemba. All the procedures have been followed. It is now time for the contract to be signed so that the road can be graded.

Sir, when the equipment has been repaired, we will want the Moonga/Munga Road which goes up to TBZ in Kanchomba to be done even if it is raining. His Honour the Vice-President visited Chief Mooyo’s Palace, last Friday, and admitted that he has given specific instructions for that road to be rehabilitated from Mufumbu Turn-off through Ndondi up to Chief Mooyo’s Palace and then from there up to Hajamba and lastly, Simwami where we share the border with Gwembe. This road ought to be rehabilitated. It is a viable road which has been on the books for a very long time. I have chosen to speak about domestic issues connected to my constituency, but others can speak nationally. I, therefore, want you and I to deal with …

Mr Lubinda interjected.

Mr Matongo: You should listen. I was voted into this House by the people of Pemba and not Kabwata.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Hon. Minister, you will lose nothing by doing other works since you have already worked on the Monze/Namwala Road. By the way, you have just scrapped through the Mapanza/Pemba Road. That Chinese Company should put laterite on that road because if it does not, you will spend more money on it next year. If you do that, you will have praises from future hon. Members of Parliament for Pemba. For now, I encourage you to undertake those jobs. At national level, let us keep the problems that rocked the RDA behind and move forward in order to develop this country. Some people want me to speak nationally, but doing so will make me step on the toes of those who were elected in other areas.

Each hon. Member of Parliament must speak for his or her own people, as I am doing for the people of Pemba. Do something about the roads I mentioned in Pemba and do it fast. Get the filters sorted out and the people of Pemba shall forever be grateful.

Mr Chairperson, for those who do not know how to negotiate and think …

Hon. Female MMD Member interjected.

Mr Matongo: Yes, I am looking at you because I am admiring you.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to advise those who would rather fight than negotiate that, when in Parliament, hon. Members must agree as a group on what projects they want done in their provinces. The hon. Members in my province, the Southern Province, have agreed that they want the Bottom Road, Namwala/Choma and Choma/Masuku roads to be worked on. We have agreed that these are the major roads that must be worked on in this region.

Hon. UPND Member: Namwala/Choma.

Mr Matongo: In case you were sleeping, I have already mentioned that one.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for allowing me to debate and encourage my friends in the Ministry of Works and Supply by stating that they have the authority and support to do the needful.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate the Vote for the Ministry of Works and Supply. I would like to state that I support the budget allocation to the ministry because this ministry is extremely important for the economic development of this country.

Mr Chairperson, I do, however, have a complaint. The Roan/Mpatamato Road in my constituency, which was constructed by the then Roan Copper Mines (RCM) in the 1930s has not been worked on until 2007. The works in 2007 were undertaken at a great cost. What is happening on this road, today, is unacceptable.

When the road was constructed, it was clearly stated by the engineers that it was not meant for heavy trucks because the kind of specification that was used was only for light vehicles. Today, however, this road is being used by heavy vehicles that carry crashed stones from the 28 Shaft to the stadium under construction in Ndola. In the process, the point between the cemetery and Section 9 has a lot of depressions created by these heavy vehicles. So far, four traffic accidents have occurred with one fatality.

When I passionately appealed to this Government to work on this road, I was nicknamed Roan-Mpatamato by some hon. Members. Toady, the road is being damaged by these trucks.

There is an industrial road in the plant from the 28 Shaft through to the China Luanshya Mine (CLM) which, since time immemorial, has been used by heavy trucks. However, I am surprised, however, that, this year, the Chinese running the mine have denied the people building the stadium in Ndola access to this road, resulting in them using the Roan/Mpatamato Road which they have damaged.

Mr Chairperson, this road was rehabilitated at a very high cost. Are we going to allow these trucks to continue damaging it? I am appealing to the hon. Minister to negotiate with the Chinese in Luanshya to allow their colleagues from Ndola to use the industrial road to transport the crashed and flat stones.

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to talk about the construction in the Ministry of Works and Supply. I am appealing to the hon. Minister to seriously consider Zambian contractors in the construction industry. It is extremely saddening to find Chinese contractors wherever the construction of a school or clinic is taking place. The implication is that we are taking hard-earned tax payers’ money, which is supposed to develop Zambia, to develop China. This is because we have allowed these investors to externalise all their money. What is there for the Zambians?

When the Chinese complete their projects and are paid, they send this money for the development of China. Yet, we come to this House and say that China is more developed than Zambia when the money developing it is from Africa. We have a lot of registered Zambian contractors who do not have jobs because, for some reason,  their quotes are lower than those of Zambians.

It is very clear that the Chinese pay bricklayers K150,000 per month. Zambian contractors have a heart for the people. They do not want to pay K150,000 to their fellow Zambians. They want to pay a living wage that will enable the bricklayer and his family to earn a living. However, we do not take this into consideration in the name of the Chinese having their own equipment. However, when you look at it closely, you will find that the bricklayers who work for the Chinese are the same ones who work for the Zambian contractors. If Zambians can do it, why allow our money to be externalised for the development of China?

Mr Chairperson, when I went to Kenya, I found that almost all the major buildings in Nairobi were owned by indigenous Kenyans. In Zambia, however, when you go into Cairo Road, almost all the buildings are owned by foreigners. When are we ever going to empower our people to own property and have construction jobs in the Ministry of Works and Supply to develop Zambia? This is a serious issue that we should look at. Let us not kill our Zambian contractors under the pretext of not having equipment. I understand when you say that the road sector needs heavy equipment and, therefore, Zambians cannot do it. However, do you really need the Chinese to construct houses at Ndola Police Camp? Almost all the beautiful Houses that have been built in Chalala are built by Zambians. Why, therefore, can the Zambians not work in the Ministry of Works and Supply? Why is it that everywhere you go you find Chang hu, Yang Yang or Yango Yong? What is going on?

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: We must be ashamed of ourselves as a nation. We cannot go on like this.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You have used certain terminologies that the Chair did not understand. Would you interpret or make us understand?

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Sir, these are names of Chinese companies.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: I do not know their meaning.

My Chairperson, the point I am driving home is that we really need to empower Zambians. Some of these contracts must be restricted to indigenous Zambian companies. We appreciate the fact that the Government wants to bring in direct foreign investment (FDI). However, in the construction industry, the opposite is happening. Instead of bringing in money, it is being taken out. 

Zambians are at a disadvantage because when these small Chinese briefcase business people come into the country, they are given money by the Bank of China. They know that when they make money, it will go back to develop China. However, our banks do not give contractors money.

Mr Chairperson, I am reliably informed that three quarters of the people who have collected money from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) are people in authority.

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: What is there for the ordinary Zambian?

Mr Lubinda: Kulibe, mwana.

Mr Kambwili: I am not shouting like I usually do when I am debating because I want the people in the Government to understand. It is my passionate appeal that the Government does something for the Zambians in the construction industry. It is too much of the Chinese. Everywhere you go in this country, there are Chinese. They are building even small clinics that can be built by Zambians. It is shameful. We must put a stop to it. Let us empower our own people. They can earn money by developing Zambia instead of taking money out of this country to develop China. 

Mr Chairperson, I would like to comment on the issue of Government buildings. When you enter any town, the dirtiest and dilapidated buildings will be associated with the Government. Their appearance will tell you that they are Government buildings. What is happening?  Surely, can the Government not make a budget to maintain them? When you go to the labour office, the only clean buildings are those which house the District Commissioner’s Office. The rest of the buildings are dirty. The state of the toilets at the Labour Office building is unacceptable. Can we be serious?

 Ms Cifire: Cry!

Mr Kambwili: When the hon. Minister was giving his policy statement, you would be tempted to think that all is rosy. However, when you visit districts and see the Government buildings, you will cry for once.

 Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Kambwili: If crying was allowed in this House, I think I would have done so. However, …

 Ms Cifire: Lila!

Mr Kambwili: … I know that it is not allowed, Mr Chairperson.

Something seriously needs to be done about the Government buildings in districts. Even some of the buildings housing ministries are extremely dilapidated and dirty. The Government is failing to look after its surroundings. Personally, I cannot work from an environment that is dirty.

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Hon. Ministers and permanent secretaries, you do not need an expatriate to come and do landscaping at that ministry. Let us be ashamed of working in dirty environments. Let us clean the Government buildings. I know that it is the responsibility of the Ministry of Works and Supply to make sure that the buildings are renovated.

Sir, a coat of paint for the roofs will protect the roofing for some years but, instead, you leave them with rusted roofing sheets. Surely, twenty litres of paint to paint a roof at a ministry or a building will not cost so much. Please, let us put a human face on these issues because these are small issues that we can do.

If each one of you, hon. Ministers, set targets, in a particular year, to have the buildings under your ministries have budget lines for landscaping, rehabilitation and renovation, it could be done. The only problem is the lack of political will because we spend so much time sending officers from the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) to investigate Hon. Kambwili’s companies. It does not pay.  For once, let us do straight things that are going to benefit the people of Zambia. When you go to some of these building, just from outside, the stench of the toilet will put you off to do business. Yet, people who work there include directors. Let us be ashamed of some of these small issues. These are some of the things that we can do. We do not need expatriates to help us in some of these aspects.

Sir, as regards the road sector, with specific reference to the Mufulira/Mukambo Road, the people on the Copperbelt feel for our colleagues in Mufulira. That road is extremely damaged. I was in Mufulira over the weekend. It should normally take you fifteen minutes to drive over the stretch of the Sabina/Mufulira Road, but it took me close to an hour. Yet, the President, in his address, outlined a lot of roads that have been worked on.

Mr Chairperson, why construct new roads when you cannot maintain the old ones? It becomes expensive. We must have a plan to maintain these roads. There must be an automatic periodic maintenance on an annual basis or after two or three years. The problem is that we want to wait for potholes to rehabilitate the roads and this is not supposed to be the case. Let us not be reactive, but have a spirit of preventive maintenance. If we can espouse the attitude of preventive maintenance, we can save a lot of money for this country.

Sir, sometimes, I tend to wonder. For instance, if you found a pothole on President Avenue, where the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt is housed, surely, it could only take the hon. Minister to lift the phone and inform an engineer about it in order for it to be mended. Instead, the hon. Minister would rather wait until it becomes a swimming to start running around.

Mr Muntanga: Mbulakulima!

Mr Kambwili:  Let us have an attitude that will save this country loads of money.

Mr Kambwili: Sir, the Luanshya/Masangono Road was worked on in 2007. Today, the state of the road is something else. Three months ago, a stretch of about 2 km of this road was closed for works to be carried out. However, the day it was opened, the tarmac was ripped off. What has happened to that contractor? That is stealing Government – Sorry, I withdraw that word stealing. That is obtaining money from the Government by force pretence. The engineer in charge of the Copperbelt should tell us what has happened to that contractor and take action because a road cannot be closed immediately on the day it is opened. Surely, what is going on? Do we have systems or supervisors in the road sector? We need to be extremely serious.

Sir, let me now come to the Great North Road, which is a very economic and important road. One of the hon. Members was complaining about seeing roads being constructed in the game parks. What is going on with the Great North Road?

Mr C. Mulenga: Landa, mwandi.  Kwena walanda! 

Mr Kambwili: This road is linking us to the border in Dar-es-salaam, and yet a lot of lives continue to be lost on it. We just lost the provincial youth chairperson of the Patriotic Front (PF) on the road because of potholes. Please, can we put a stop to this kind of negligence? We always want to wait until the potholes become swimming pools to act. Hon. Minister, please, I trust you. People say that short people are difficult. Redeem them by doing the right thing.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to join other progressive hon. Members of Parliament who have spoken on this Vote.

I will also toe the line of my colleagues who have put on the provincial face in debating this Vote. I am not going to be national …

 Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: … for fear of stepping on other people’s toes.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I want to speak with authority and make it very clear that the people of the Luapula Province believe in one principle. Where we have to say, “ Thank you”, we speak our mind and ...

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: … where the Government has gone wrong, we stand up and say, “You are wrong.”

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Therefore, this afternoon, I am going to say that the Government has not done anything in the Luapula Province as far as road development is concerned.

Mr Lubinda: Sure!

Mr Kasongo: Sir, our traditional leaders met in Mansa and came up with a strategy of developing the Luapula Province with emphasis on the road network. The document was submitted to His Honour the Vice-President. What has been done about it?

Mr Lubinda: He is sitting on it!

Mr Kasongo: Nothing. We would like to find out whether the Government is against the people of the Luapula Province simply because they have made a declaration that they are going to support the President in 2011. Tell us to day why this is so. I take it that there are some people in Cabinet who want to move us away from that declaration. Are you trying to make some hon. Member of Parliament unpopular by failing to maintain roads? I can assure you that some of us are better politicians and you will not succeed.

 Mr Lubinda: Uko! Hanjika!

Mr Muntanga: Basopo!

Mr Kasongo: You should go to the office responsible for conducting elections and see how we perform.

 Laughter

Mr Kasongo: You will end up crushing yourselves. If you make reference to my performance in 2006, you will find that I recorded 11,000 against the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) candidate who recorded 4,000 votes. Look at that gap. You are playing with fire.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: That is what you are trying to do.

 Mr Muntanga: There is fire there!

Mr Kasongo: Last year, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, and we have acknowledged that fact, released K1.8 billion for road maintenance, but not even a single road has been maintained. What are you trying to achieve? To make the people of the Luapula Province unpopular and also make them rise against the Government of the day?

 Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Kasongo: That is your intention.

Mr Lubinda: Hammer!

Mr Kasongo: Sir, K1.8 billion was released to maintain roads, but not even a single ngwee was spent, and yet you are there smiling.

Mr Muntanga: You see!  Look at them!

Mr Kasongo: What type of leadership is that?

Mr Muntanga: We are annoyed.

Mr D. Mwila: Lelo!

Mr Kasongo: We made a declaration that we have seen something shining in the eyes of the current President and we support him, but some of you in the Cabinet are against that declaration.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I have no apology to make. To tell you the truth, today, we are going to shine.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: This is our language in Luapula Province. Once we make a decision, it is final. Once you stand in our way, we will tell you that we will crush you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Luapula is gone!

Interruptions

Mr Kasongo: Again, the Government, through the Head of State, was kind enough to approve and release K5 billion, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, to maintain feeder roads in Luapula Province. As I speak to you …

Mr Muntanga: What happened?

Mr Kasongo: … Mr Chairperson, some amount of money was released in April and, again, in August. However, to date, this Government has not attended to feeder roads. What is your intention? What conclusion can you make out of the shoddy performance that is going on in the province? You are against the people of Luapula Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I wish to remind you that this is the language that we are going to use to tell our people that there are …

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Kasongo: … Ministers and permanent secretaries in the system, who are against you, the people of Luapula Province, simply because you have made a declaration that you are going to support Rupiah Banda (RB). Shame on you!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Shame on them!

Mr Chazangwe: Luapula is gone!

Mr Kasongo: We are not going to stomach this type of leadership. We are not going to tolerate leadership of selfishness.

Mr Kambwili: Sosa, mulamu, sosa!

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Tell them!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Chairperson, there is a long list of feeder roads that have not been attended to in Luapula Province. For example …

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kasongo: … we have …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kasongo: Iwe, wilandufya!

Laughter

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me an opportunity to raise a point of order. Two weeks ago, Hon. Kasongo debated on the K5 billion Luapula Province 2010 budgetary allocation for the maintenance of feeder roads which have not been repaired. I also debated on the same issue and there was no response from the Government. Today, Mr Chairperson …

The Deputy Chairperson: What is the point of order?

Mr D. Mwila: I want to build up.

The Deputy Chairperson: Ask your point of order.

Mr D. Mwila: Is the Government in order not to respond to what we asked about the K5 billion 2010 budgetary allocation for the maintenance of feeder roads in Luapula Province which has not been spent? Is he in order not to respond?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member, who has raised that point of order, seems to want to debate through a point of order. Consequently, he has debated his point of order and I will ask Hon. Kasongo to continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I am humbled with the additional information that has been provided.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kasongo: Mr Chairperson, you may wish to know that a number of feeder roads – in fact, all of them – have not been attended to for two consecutive years. What is the role of a minister if he cannot follow up that issue? What is the role of a permanent secretary if he or she cannot follow up that issue? What conclusion can you make? One can make the same conclusion that I have made, today, that these people in Government are against the people of Luapula Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Aah, sure!

Mr Kasongo: They should come out in the open and tell us because we are mature enough to make a decision otherwise.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Luapula is gone!

Mr Kasongo: Sir, for example, in my constituency, you may wish to know that Kabongo Road, which was funded by the National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA), last year, has not been attended to.

Mr Muntanga: Sure!

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: The rainy season is here and nothing has been done on this road. They are just seated, watching and getting money for doing nothing.

Munokola Road was poorly constructed, so to speak, because I am not a professional. I raised this issue and suggested that a bridge be erected on this road and additional culverts be provided so that water could flow freely. For twelve months now, no action has been taken. What conclusion can one make? It is either you are against the people of Luapula or there is something else you are thinking about.

Hon. Opposition Members: hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: The Kaasamukoso Road has not been worked on, and yet the money is there. Two weeks ago, they released the equipment on the Samfya/Katansha/Twingi Road and it is stuck there. The people working on the road are just drinking kachasu.

Mr Muntanga: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Kasongo: Nobody is supervising them.

This morning, I received a phone call from one of the villagers that last night, the people who are working on this road sold one drum of diesel.

Mr Muntanga: Oh, no!

Interruptions

Mr Kasongo: That is poor performance.

Mr Chazangwe: Yabija makani!

Mr Kasongo: In my view, this is political.

Sir, the list is endless. The Mwansakombe/Chikuwe/Pilipo Road has not been worked on, and yet the K5 billion budgetary allocation is still there. It is just moving in the pockets of those people known as provincial leaders who have no integrity.

Mr Muntanga: Enhe!

Mr Kasongo: The Mumbwe/Chibuye/Kapiri Road has also not been worked on. An embankment at the Mutondo cause way has also not been worked on. I have also said that the road from Musaila up to Luwingu must be worked on. To date, nothing has been done about that.

Mr D. Mwila: Tell them, mudala!

Mr Kasongo: If you put all these things together, Mr Chairperson, what conclusion can you make?

Mr Muntanga: The Government has failed!

Mr Kasongo: No, it is not that the Government has failed, but there is more to it than meets the eye.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: Some of these hon. Ministers are against the people of Luapula Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Landa, mudala!

Mr Muntanga: That is even worse!

Mr Kasongo: I have no apology to make.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I was elected by the people of Luapula Province, through Bangweulu Constituency, to speak for them. I cannot allow this type of hatred by some of the hon. Ministers and permanent secretaries.

We made a declaration that we would support the Government of the day within the same system, …

Mr Kambwili: General nalala!

Mr Kasongo: … but they are pushing us like young children.

Mr Muntanga: They are very bad people!

Mr Kasongo: Please, do not raise our tempers.

Mr Muntanga: Get annoyed!

Mr Kasongo: We are a humble people, but we can also become difficult if we want to. I can assure you that if you will not take action on these issues, we will pursue a different direction.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Luapula is gone!

Mr Kasongo: There is nothing for nothing. We can see that you are trying to distance Luapula Province from the Head of State.

Mr Kambwili: It is possible!

Mr Kasongo: That is your policy. You want to distance the entire Luapula Province from the Head of State.

Mr Lubinda: Mwamvela manje!

Mr Kasongo: This point must be understood and the people of Luapula Province must listen. There are some people within the system who would like to distance the people of Luapula Province from the current Head of State.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I have given all these practical examples that you release money, but fail to work on the roads. What is your interpretation?

Mr Muntanga: The Government has failed!

Mr Kasongo: What is your interpretation?

Mr Muntanga: They must go to Luapula!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Chairperson, there is no need for me to appeal to the Government. There is no need at all.

Mr D. Mwila: Bachilala fye!

Mr Kasongo: As my colleagues have ably put it, we gave them this information, but they have not taken action. Therefore, the conclusion that we have drawn is that they are against the people of Luapula Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: That is why I said I was going to adopt the tone of debate that had been introduced by my colleagues.

Mr Chairperson, the point I am trying to emphasise is that, please, hon. Minister, …

Mr Muntanga: This is like the Bottom Road!

Mr Kasongo: …you have to make sure that you understand what I am talking about. If Luapula Province does not support you, you will go for good. Politics is about numbers and if you do not have the numbers by frustrating the people of Luapula Province, you will know the end result. It is not Kasongo who is going to lose, but you, in Government. You are flying flags, but they will not stand by you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I end here.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am sure hon. Members will agree with me that you are taking up the entire fifteen minutes when you stand to debate and that means that you are reducing the number of people who will debate because there is a time limit.

It is important that we debate issues that have not been debated. We have debated on the roads, through the Motion of Thanks, and we did the same on the Budget 2011 debate and during Questions for Oral Answer.

I just would like to plead with you, hon. Members, to minimise the time of debate by going straight into issues that have not been debated. You must also be brief, if you can, so that many hon. Members can debate. Otherwise, there will be no choice, but to minimise the time for those who will debate.

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, I would like to appreciate the debate by the hon. Members who spoke before me.

Mr Chairperson, I stand to support the Vote, but I would like to make the following few observations. I listened to the policy statement by the hon. Minister and just want to pick one point on bridges and pontoon construction. I was listening very attentively since we are transiting from the Fifth National Development Plan into the Sixth National Development Plan, bearing in mind that the late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC. spoke about phasing out pontoons in this House. He said pontoons would be phased out and that the hon. Minister would give clear directives on how this was to be done throughout the country. Unfortunately, maybe, because of time or whatever reason, I did not hear anything on this issue in the policy statement.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to pay tribute to Hon. Kapembwa Simbao for what he did when he was hon. Minister of Works and Supply.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: When we complained about the Katunda Road and the pontoon, he did not go to Lukulu on his own, but asked us to be there, too, and both Hon. Imenda and I went. I am saying this because when I start talking about the pontoon, it will not be because I am dreaming about it, but because it is something that the Government knows about. I am expecting something to happen and I know that there is goodwill somewhere and I want to see it.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to take Hon. Kasongo’s debate as my own. It was furious …

Mr Muntanga: Original!

Ms Imbwae: … and the reason is that, for a long time, the Luapula and Western provinces have been taken as the most underdeveloped.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: Mr Chairperson, the people of the Luapula and Western Provinces have one common problem which is water and this can also be used to their advantage. In the policy statement, I did not hear about the utilisation of water bodies for providing transportation, but I will hold my fire on that because, maybe, it will come under the Ministry of Communications and Transport.

Mr Chairperson, I wonder whether the hon. Minister cares about the hardware that they have such as pontoons which were purchased with Government funds. Even if you are not going to replace them, today, you must know where each pontoon is, and its state of operation. We should have a situation where, even where there is no bridge, people should be able to cross the water bodies. Unfortunately, for more than two years now, the pontoon that Hon. Simbao went to see, that which was parked at the harbour at Lukulu Boma has since, moved with the last flooding which was very strong and is stuck at Mukwae Nasilele.

Mr Chairperson, I know that you trust the people of Lukulu very much that they will not vandalise the pontoon wherever it is. I appreciate that although, unfortunately, that trust does not answer our problem because where it is now, with its heavy weight, it is sinking. Whereas it would have been easier to remove it a year ago, the longer you take, the more expensive it will cost the Government to get it out of there to a place where it will be worked on. I wonder if the ministry takes stock of its hardware because I am aware that a team of ESCO staff had gone to Lukulu to look at that pontoon, and decided that, it was in a wrong place because it was heavy and the water was shallow and could not contain the weight.

Mr Chairperson, even when we were campaigning, in 2006, the pontoon was stuck there and Hon. Simbao knows this. All this is taking place as we are transiting from the Fifth National Development Plan into the Sixth National Development Plan. That pontoon, as was suggested, would have worked better if it had gone to Watopa where the river is deeper. If the ministry had acted quickly, it would have been cheaper to move the heavier pontoon to Watopa and the lighter one to Lukulu. When you realise that we are also Zambians in that part of Zambia, you will give us a road.

Mr Muntanga: They do not know.

Interruptions

Ms Imbwae: But for now, the ministry has lost the opportunity to save money by not making a simple movement. The fact that I have not heard anything about replacing all pontoons, I am not sure whether this is the right time to make this appeal. However, I am sure that you know that Lukulu West has never had a road in the history of the Republic. Therefore I am appealing to the Government to, at least, give us a crossing facility that is going to make movement easier for everybody who has to do business across the river. At present, the people there are using a small pontoon which belongs to the Ministry of Health. We appreciate what they are doing, but the pontoon is not serviced because of the frequency of travel. Is it safe for people to use a small pontoon which has not been serviced since the days of whoever? With these problems, I do not think that the people of Lukulu West and Lukulu, in particular, and the people of the Western Province, in general, will continue to think that this Government is considering them favourably.

Mr Chairperson, it is in that context that I said I was taking the debate of Hon. Kasongo as my own. I am sure the hon. Minister has heard what I have said about the pontoon and I just want to mention one other matter in relation with this issue and this is the Kakwacha Road. This road has appeared in the Yellow Book for a number of years, but it never gets constructed. I do not mind how bad the road is up to Lukulu Harbour, but this is the only road that gets the people of Zambia to Mitete, which is a sub-Boma. This is the only place where there are schools and other basic essentials in the area, but the road to this place, Mitete, is very bad. Are the teachers, medical workers and ordinary community staff working in this place not Zambians? This is something that the hon. Minister has to take into consideration.

I think works on the Kakwacha Road need to begin. I was told that the lifespan of that road is longer than that of the Kalabo Road because of flooding that was a result of failure to dredge our rivers. We had suggested that if the money allocated in the budget is not sufficient, it should not be returned to the Treasury but, instead, be used to build a small bridge at Mesoa Kawa for people to cross. This bridge would connect the islands on the Kashiji River to the mainland. I think those who have been there for some time know that, for several years, we have been asking for the use of helicopters to drop relief maize in that area and most of Lukulu West. The construction of an access road to the area would cut down on such unnecessary travel expenditure. The Government must remember that we are also Zambians and, therefore, need a good road.

In the time of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Regime, there was a wooden bridge at Mesoa Kawa. This bridge was a connection between Lukulu West and the mainland. A pontoon was also put there, but has been removed. At the moment, it is very difficult and costly to get to Kashiji and that is why even officers conducting the national registration and voter registration exercises have found it difficult to do their work in the area, as one has to go through the North-Western Province and then come back into the Western Province. I think we would discover an extraordinary waste of resources if we were to compute all the monies that are being used by every Government vehicle to come and do simple work in Lukulu West.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka (Kawambwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to only deal with two important issues that Hon. Kasongo did not tackle. In supporting the estimates of revenue and expenditure for the Ministry of Works and Supply, allow me to take advantage of this opportunity to clear or, indeed, remind some of our colleagues in this House one important issue. I have made it very clear whenever I have debated that I am not going to be swayed by what I will call ‘group thinking’, which entails simply criticising the Government for the sake of doing so. When the Government has done well, I have always acknowledged the good works on behalf of the people of Kawambwa. Similarly, when the Government has failed to meet our expectations, I have always brought this to the attention of the Executive and offered constructive criticism.

Mr Chongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Tell them.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Chairperson, I, therefore do not see why whenever ‘our group’ debates, people should shout, “Adoption, adoption!” I would like to remind our colleagues here, lest they have forgotten, that I came to this House in 1996. At that time, regional groups or clubs in here were not even there.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: I, therefore, do not see why they should continue talking about us not getting adopted, next year, when I am standing here to debate on behalf of the people of Kawambwa. When the people of Kawambwa tell me that the Government has done well regarding a particular issue, I will come and congratulate the hon. Members on your right. When the opposite happens, I will stand here and inform the Government of the people’s disappointment where it has failed. That is the way we, as people from Luapula, are going to conduct ourselves in this House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Chairperson, I know how this Parliament operates. I have had an opportunity, at a very early age, to sit in the Back and Middle Benches of the Ruling Party as well as on your left. As a result, I know what I am talking about. It does not pay for me to stand on top of a hill and insult, when I know that I need to engage the Government in order to take development to Kawambwa.

Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Therefore, I want to state that …

Interruptions

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: … listening is not a skill, but a discipline. Now we have hon. Members in this House who want to be indisciplined.  They want to distract the people of Kawambwa from listening to what I am saying.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: That is being indisciplined, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Will the hon. Member looking behind, please, look this way before I call his name out.

Hon. Members, let the hon. Member who has the Floor debate. When your time comes, you will debate as well. I think we must rise above pettiness and discuss issues in this House. Issues that concern our political affiliations must be left out there. Let us deal with the needs of the country. We are trusted with the responsibility to deal with national matters.

Hon. Molobeka, please, continue.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that it may not be important for me to come back to this House next year because I am just an individual. However, people should not underrate my abilities, together with the people of Kawambwa, to upset the political situation in that area.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: We have done that before and we can do it.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lumba: On a point of order, Sir.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Chairperson, having given …

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lumba: Sir, I did not mean to rise on a point of order. I am just looking at the time left and the hon. Minister still has to come and wind up debate on this Vote. However, going by the advice that you gave, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to continue debating in that manner?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: That point of order seeks to remind the hon. Member debating that we have to move on and deal with the issues that affect the Ministry of Works and Supply. At the same time, I will take this opportunity to request hon. Members to stop heckling her because that is what is leading her to answer to what is going on.

You may continue.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Chairperson, having given that brief preamble, allow me, now, to commend the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, who is an hon. Colleague and friend from the Eighth National Assembly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: I want to commend him and his staff for doing what he listed in his statement throughout the country. It may not be the turn of the people from Kawambwa for roads to be rehabilitated, but we are happy that roads have been constructed for the people of Namwala, Mambwe, Lundazi and North-Western Province and the Mutanda/Chavuma Road.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: The hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province in the Eighth National Assembly spoke passionately about the importance of the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. I also spoke passionately about the Kawambwa/Mansa Road and Hon. Katele Kalumba spoke passionately about the Kashikishi/Lunchinda Road.

Mr Chimbaka: That is where he had an accident.

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Chairperson, probably our voices were not loud enough, but we know that, in future, the people of Kawambwa, Chienge and Nchelenge will have a road. Our big brother who is in hospital almost lost his life. We would like the roads to be worked on.

Mr Chairperson, coming to the Pedicle Road, we have been told that money has been found for this important road. We are happy and anxious at the same time to have works on this road started without any delay. I am, therefore, urging the hon. Minister to quicken the process of tendering and conclude the discussions with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) so that this important road that will connect to the midlands in Luapula Province into Tanzania is worked on. This road will not only be able to benefit the people of Luapula, but also all the Zambians because it is an international gateway.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Mr Chairperson, lastly, Hon. Kasongo talked about the rural roads. We need to emphasise the importance of rural roads. In my constituency, for instance, not a single rural road has been worked on, including those that were budgeted for. Now, when we get back to the constituencies, how do we explain to our people why a road that has been budgeted for and approved in this House still remains unrepaired?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Tell us!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: These are serious issues. At the moment, people are very upset with the provincial leadership in Luapula Province that has become very unpopular. I am not going to be diplomatic because I am not a diplomat. I am going to tell the truth.

I think it is high time we stopped pretending that things are fine in Luapula Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Things are not fine.

Mr Mabenga: Batu baile!

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: Things are not alright. I am, therefore, appealing to the Government to do something about it. In my language, we say: ‘Pachili pachili aundepe wang’ongo’, simply stating that a stitch in time saves nine.

Mr Chairperson, my colleague, Hon. Mulongoti, should not say that the people of Luapula Province did not tell us and I do not want you to say they did not warn you.

Mr Muntanga: We are even warning Rupiah.

Laughter

Mrs Chitika-Molobeka: We have talked and it is up to them to do something between now and the time of elections.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, we have seen people taking up the whole fifteen minutes. This is because of the importance of the Vote on the Floor of the House.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Works and Supply is a ministry which enables people to communicate and move from one place to the other. Therefore, it should be treated like a very important ministry.

Mr Chairperson, I want to emphasise one point and I am not going to use words of endearment. The people of Katuba voted for this Government. They are not claiming for any promissory note. They voted for Rupiah Banda, so they also deserve to be heard. Therefore, I am going to talk about the people of Katuba who voted for this Government and Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Would you add the words President, please? Let us be courteous.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Would you, please, …

Mrs Masebo: Add!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, the people of Katuba voted for His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, there is a World Bank programme which was supposed to put up Bailey bridges that have been there for a long time in the whole country. Some studies have been conducted and by this time Bailey bridges were supposed to have been supplied to constituencies in the whole country. I think the documentation for this is with the Permanent Secretary or whoever is responsible for this.

Many people have difficulties travelling now that the rains have come. Listening to the debate in the House, it is true that the Government has made a lot of strides in working on major roads. However, a lot of investments have been, maybe, on one major road in a district and the people will not appreciate that. For instance, this year, in Chibombo District, only one road linking Chibombo and Mumbwa has been worked on. It does not pass through Chisamba or Katuba. We would have liked some of the feeder roads which people are using on a daily basis to be worked on. It was really disheartening, last year, to see all the money given to the Central Province for rehabilitation of feeder roads go to one district.

I think when planning, we should consider how the money should be distributed in each province. Money should not be taken to one district simply because, maybe, His Honour  the Vice-President comes from there. We should bear in mind that in the next elections, all the voters will not come from Serenje District. Therefore, we might please the people in Chitambo or where His Honour the Vice-President comes from, but if it is at the expense of other people, it will not help. We will not be shy to talk about our people in this age and era. We will not be shy to be honest at whatever cost.

The Mungule Chilo Road was supposed to be worked on with help from the European Union. Unfortunately, we were asked whether we know the problems the Ministry of Works and Supply had. To our surprise, new projects are brought in instead of concentrating on the projects that are on the work plan. To date, the Mungule Chilo Road has not been worked on, and yet that is the main road in Katuba Constituency. I know that some people will say this is all because of your Member of Parliament. Members of Parliament here do not work on roads.

Mrs Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: No Member of Parliament works on roads. Thinking that way is retrogressive and backward and people who think that way should be somewhere else and not here. Members of Parliament do not work on roads, but the Government does.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Therefore, it is the Government that is failing the people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: For someone to come and say it is your Member of Parliament, that is wrong thinking and retrogressive. The Government is the one that works on the roads.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, there are markets in my constituency that are along the Great North Road and the Permanent Secretary is aware of this because I have been to his office. We are supposed to erect humps or mark stripes to slow traffic down where people cross from, but we have not done that and people are losing lives. How much does this cost? Even when planning the road, you should take into account the market or pedestrian crossing to the high school. Mark the crossing to alert motorists that there are pedestrians crossing. We are failing to do this. There is Moomba High School at a place called 13 Miles where a pupil’s life is lost every month. When someone lost a life at a place called 15 Miles, we even went there and photographs were taken, but nothing happened. One day, we shall wake up and do our own humps on some of those roads. We do not want you to come and say that we have destroyed the roads because we want to save lives. We want to do this very soon. Perhaps, before the end of this month, we shall start putting in place measures to prevent the deaths from occurring.

Hon. Government Member: Ooh!

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, let me now talk about the congestion in the Lusaka City. We, the residents, who stay along the Kalimba Farm/Ngwerere Road, have a ring road which we have been rehabilitating for some time now at our own cost. Most of the rehabilitation works on this road have been carried out by the residents who have farms along that road. That road can ease congestion since it can be used by trucks as well. You cannot use Kasangula Road for routes heading into the Great East Road. From Ngwerere Turn-off on the Great North Road, the road goes up to Caltex Filling Station in Chelstone. What a great ring road which can be used to divert traffic off the main road! Using this road, the people coming from the Copperbelt Province can save time when rushing to the Lusaka International Airport. This road can make it possible for people to use it to go to the airport from the Copperbelt without passing through town. 
.
    If we had proper planning, we would have decongested the city. I know that even the Japanese International Co-operation Agency’s (JICA) plan for the Greater City of Lusaka has hiccups because there is no land in Lusaka where more ring roads can be constructed. Most of the land has been allocated to people. I appeal to the Government, through the ministry, to look at working on this already existing road. We can, maybe, come up with a plan to set aside about K10 billion to tar a stretch of 10 km, every year, because the road is already compacted. Once this is done, it might ease the flow of traffic in the city.

Sir, in Katuba Constituency, the Situmbeko/Kapopola Road also needs to be attended to. The hon. Member for Bangweulu who spoke before me talked about achievements. There are some roads which have not been tarred for two, three and even five years in the country and those are the roads nearest to the people. Unless we are going to have supermen who can sway people’s decisions, unlike some of us who are very honest, most hon. Members will have a tough time during the elections.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: You may be able to sway people’s decisions in the urban, but not in rural areas. Try me, just here in Katuba Constituency which is a rural area. We have been able to protect Katuba Constituency from the influence of the city. Let me take this opportunity to appeal to the Government to open up that area as well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: If people are cheating you that Katuba can be grabbed by ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

May the hon. Member withdraw the word ‘cheat’ because it is unparliamentary?

You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I withdraw the word ‘cheat’ and replace it with ‘untruths’.

Then the people who claim that money could be used to buy the votes of the people of Katuba Constituency are not telling the truth.

I think the House may wish to know that the people in Lusaka and Central provinces were the first ones to see a lift here in Zambia at the Main Post Office. When you go to buy the votes of such people, they will just eat your money, but still do the needful.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: These people cannot be swayed by money, but tangible things which they can see. I am not threatening anyone, but just saying that my people have been given a raw deal. My people are the ones who built the Greater City of Lusaka together with the people of Chongwe. Have we got any compensation?

Hon. Opposition Members: Nothing.

Mr Shakafuswa: There is nothing on the ground for us. As you can tell from our language, we have grown up. Those who think that we can be taken for granted and intimidated are wrong.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: You can only convince us by convincing us in your debates and not through intimidation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: All we want is for us to see you doing the work that needs to be done. 

Sir, the Situmbeko/Kapopola Road is supposed to be worked on, but I understand that the equipment for the Central Province has been sent to the Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: The Western Province has its own equipment.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mulyata: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulyata: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member for Katuba in order to say that the people of Katuba are being intimidated without informing the House and the nation at large who, in particular, is intimidating who?

Hon. Opposition Members: You.

Mr Mulyata: Mr Chairperson, I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

 The point of order raised by the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence should be considered as a reminder to the hon. Member who is debating that he is veering too far away from Head 64 – Ministry of Works and Supply, by discussing intimidations and issues like that. If the hon. Member has evidence regarding the intimidations, he must state it clearly. If not, I would advise that he continues debating Head 64 – Ministry of Works and Supply, and veer off from discussing intimidations. In any case, that is not part of the debate.

The hon. Member for Katuba may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, it is very unfortunate that the people of Katuba have not had their roads rehabilitated because the equipment has been sent to the Western Province. I hope this equipment has not been sent to the Western Province to tar a road that leads to someone’s lodge.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: I just hope it has not been sent to that province for that purpose. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Kulula.

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, regarding the intimidation, I meant that we shall talk freely without any fear. It is not fair for someone to misconstrue what I said because it was straightforward. I hope that I have clarified that issue. Before I went to that point, I was talking about instructions that came that equipment … 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, I am going to make the hon. Member debating the last one because I think you are not interested in debating any further.

You may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, the equipment has affected the performance of hon. Members for Chisamba, Keembe and me. We were expecting this equipment in our areas, but we are told that it is now in the Western Province, based on the instructions from the Office of the Vice-President - Disaster Management and Mitigation Department (DMMU). I think those were wrong instructions. The people of the Central Province need the equipment in order to work on all their roads. For example, the Situmbeko/Kapopola Road, at the moment, is in a very bad state. It is absolutely impassable.

With this kind of work rate, what are we going to tell our people? Are we going to tell them that since we gave them fertiliser, they can carry their miaze on their back to the depots because cars cannot manage to reach their places? How is fertiliser going to be delivered in the hinterland? Somebody has to come up with answers instead of raising points of order on straightforward issues. Anyway, I excuse the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence, who raised the point of order, because he is Lozi. I think he was just trying to crack a joke. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister of Works and Supply should wind up debate on this ministry.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order! Hon. Members,...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Opposition Member: Awe, ala!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Who is that?

Hon. Government Members: Kambwili.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

It is irresponsible for an Member of Parliament to talk from the seat. That warning is meant for the hon. Member who is doing that. Next time, I will mention your name so that proper action is taken against you. This is Parliament and not a tavern.

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.{mospagebreak}

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: Before I call on the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to wind up debate, let me say something. Firstly, hon. Members, I know that this is a special Head in the Budget. I am well aware of that but, please, do not forget that nine people have already debated and all of them, except two, went the whole time. This is the reason I was pleading with you to limit your debate so as to allow as many people as possible to debate. However, you did not heed my advice. We cannot debate the same Vote for the rest of the day.  From the way all of you, hon. Members, particularly on my left stood up, it would mean that we would need five days to finish this particular Vote and that is not possible because we work with time.

I concede that it would have been better to go on, but it is very important that we also observe time.

May the hon. Minister continue, please.

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members walked out of the Chamber.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for the opportunity to wind up debate on the Motion on my ministry. The most disappointing matter is that from the first debater, who quickly jumped to talking about the Bottom Road and saying all kinds of things, it was evident that they had not read the Yellow Book because under the Loans and Investment allocation, the road has been provided with K50 billion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Mr Mulongoti: The whole project amount is K197 billion, but the current budget has an allocation of K50 billion. Therefore, I do not know why he chose to say things about individuals and how they were included in the Government by the late President when they had no shoes. That was petty and extremely unfortunate. I do not think it is right for an hon. Member to debate along that route.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Shame!

Mr Mulongoti: Sir, there is also the issue of bulk buying that was raised by Hon. Matongo. The Government arrives at policy decisions after considering a lot of issues, some of which include experience and advice. The House has been considering the issue of decentralisation and, therefore, we need to streamline our operations. When decentralisation is implemented and, for some reason, one item or so does not go right, I do not think that should be the reason we should take things back to the centre. Consider the cost of all goods being bought in Lusaka and all the districts in Zambia coming to collect them from Lusaka. I think that cost is quite unacceptable. Let us spread the cost by decentralising. I have seen no difficulties in allowing ministries to do their own procurement of items. There could be deficiencies here and there, but it does not mean that they should make us abandon the decision that ministries must be responsible enough to add to their own efficiency.

Mr Matongo also talked about the buying of spare parts for graders. In fact, in Lusaka, there are stores that are run by our friends from China from the company that supplied the equipment. They supply spare parts as per your request. Unfortunately, these stores have been broken into several times. That is the biggest problem that we have had. Spare parts have been ordered, but thieves have broken into the stores that stock them. It has been a very frustrating experience because all this has been happening at a great cost to the Government and people of Zambia. It is unfortunate that all the efforts to try and stock spares have been frustrated by people who have gone to steal the same spares from those stores.

Hon. Government Member: Ni ba PF!

Mr Mulongoti: Please, understand that there has been no reason at all why suppliers could not have brought the spares into the country. It is so frustrating that the spares find their way to Lusaka, but end up being stolen. 

The question of the road camps that were there before is being considered because we believe that we must take our services as close to the people as possible. However, the only problem that we have, at the moment, is that the equipment is not sufficient enough to be distributed to all the districts.

Mr Shawa: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: We only have sufficient equipment to go to provincial centres and through these, it is hoped that the machinery can be sent to districts in need as quickly as possible.

With regard to the issue of printing ballot papers for our elections, I would like to say that it is our wish, as a ministry, to see that they are printed in Zambia. Just as Hon. Matongo has said, it all has to do with integrity and trust. I have been consulting the people at the Government Printers and our headquarters in an effort to establish, at present, how much it would cost this country to have ballot papers printed outside Zambia. It does not only involve the cost of printing, but also the upkeep for observers who stay in hotels while these ballot papers are being printed. We also have to factor in transport costs. I have said, if it is possible, let us use that money to equip our own Government Printers and print the ballot papers from here. This can be done, except that there are issues of mistrust that need to be sorted out. People will always question why the ballot papers are being printed locally as opposed to them being processed from other countries. 

As a ministry, we are doing everything possible to ensure that we make it possible to have those papers printed locally. When the ECZ was requested to air its views regarding this issue, it requested for two things. Firstly, to put up the closed-circuit television (CCTV) cameras to monitor the area where the ballot papers are supposed to be printed from and secondly, to cordon off the area so that it cannot be accessed easily. As a ministry, we have been working on those requests. We are hopeful that we can manage to fulfill the requests so that when the stakeholders visit the premises, they will have the confidence that we can print the ballot papers in Zambia. We have no wish, at all, to get involved in issues that question the integrity of our elections.

As far as we are concerned, we, as Zambians, will be happy to print our own ballot papers so that, at the end of the day, we take charge of our own electoral process. I would like to assure the people of Zambia that, as far as we concerned, we would like to print the ballot papers in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member for Pemba also talked about the issue of the RDA. Like he rightly said, I think that is now water under the bridge. We must move on. Discussions have been held with the donor community and I think we are heading in the right direction. We have had donors who have come to intimate that they are willing to come back and support us. Some of them, of course, have gone as far as even indicating what they would want to do for us. As far as we are concerned, the issue of the RDA is no longer on our agenda. It was dealt with and we must move on.

Sir, Hon. Kambwili complained about the road in Ndola that is being used by the contractors who are building our stadium. It is something that we will look into. We will persuade the mining authorities in Luanshya to see whether they can allow the contractors to have access to the roads that were built strictly for industrial purposes. There are certain roads that are constructed to take on heavy trucks with a higher height than other roads. Therefore, I think we will discuss that with the management and see what can be done.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member also talked about Chinese contractors. Our contracting system is one which invites public tenders. All those contractors, who think have capacity, are invited to participate. The evaluation is done in a transparent manner. Sometimes, our own contractors ‘kill’ or disadvantage themselves because they quote in such a manner that they would want to recover whatever they put in within a short period. On the contrary, their colleagues quote knowing that they must win the contract and be able to deliver. It is not that our Zambian contractors are not participating in these tenders. They are in the majority of numbers.

The other reason some of them get disadvantaged is that of completion times and the quality of work. If you want a school to be built, the first consideration is when you would like it to be delivered to the community. If your consideration is just for a Zambian contractor to do the work, even if he/she takes ten years, that will not take us anywhere. 

Sir, the Government works within timeframes and because of that, it likes to get the best contractors with capacity. We have, in our laws, a provision that 10 per cent of the works that are given to contractors can be sub-contracted to the locals. However, you find that, sometimes, even when local contractors lack capacity, they want to be the main contractors and, in the process, fail to deliver.

So, there is no favouritism because the process of contracting is done in a very open and transparent manner. If there are ways that we can improve on it, we welcome those suggestions. At the end of the day, please, understand that the owners of these projects, who are the people of Zambia, do not care who the contractor is as long as the work can be done in the stated period. So, everything possible has been done, including the law of public procurement, to ensure that some percentage is reserved for Zambians, either as sub-contractors or through partnerships.

Sir, we have also encouraged our local people to partner with the foreign contractors so that they can use their technology, equipment and financial capacity. However, what you find is that they enter into these relationships for a very short period and as soon as the money begins to flow in, the relationship breaks up. This is very unfortunate. However, we would want to encourage them to continue along the lines of partnerships.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member also talked about the Government buildings being very dirty. I think that has nothing to do with my ministry. It has to do with the attitude of most of us. Maintenance of public and Government buildings is a responsibility of all of us, as Zambians. We must take interest and pride in our facilities. However, how many times do you find grass growing just by the entrance of an office with nobody seeming to notice it? It is the mindset of our people that is the problem. We have to inculcate a sense of responsibility and pride in our facilities and equipment. It is, therefore, not possible for one ministry to go round cleaning buildings and toilets in Kaputa and Shang’ombo. It is not possible. Even as regards toilets, does it mean that people who use them do not care? We have to be responsible enough to take care of the facilities that we use. A toilet is like any other room in the house. It is used and, therefore, must be cleaned. At the end of the day, it will not be fair to expect someone from elsewhere to come and attend to one’s toilets.

 My appeal is that we should pay attention and have interest in our facilities and structures. My ministry will do everything possible if and when it can. We can only sensitise because we do not have the capacity to go round cleaning toilets and offices all over the country. It is the responsibility of all of us.

Mr Chairperson, as regards the Mokambo/Mufulira Road, it is already in our plans. We travelled to the DRC with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to meet the Governor. He was happy to see this project undertaken as quickly as possible. We talked about the possibility of doing it under the private-public partnership (PPP) and the Government. As far as I know, the Pedicle Road is just about to be advertised. Like Hon. Chitika-Molobeka said, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: … money has been found and it is about to be advertised. It will not be long before you see contractors on this road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Sometimes, as a Government, it becomes a little difficult to blow trumpets here and there. There are certain things we do not divulge until we are sure that we are going to do them. Only then can we make announcements. As far as we know, the Pedicle Road will be worked on. 

Mr Chairperson, I must also add that in the Luapula Province, we have been resurfacing the road from the Great North Road Turn-Off into Samfya and all the way to Mansa. It is at a great cost, so you cannot claim that nothing is being done in that province. We are conscious of the fact that we cannot allow roads that were built long before to deteriorate to a level where they become impassable. This is why, instead of starting new projects from Kashikishi to Chienge, we are considering the status of the roads that are already in the province. These are the works that are being done at the moment.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is looking at the North-South Corridor. It is working on the roads all the way from Nakonde through to Mbala, Kasama, Luwingu and Mansa. We have a programme to link the Luwingu/Kasama Road to Mansa as soon as it is completed. Then, we will have completed the link on the Great North-South Corridor. Please, bear with us, it is not that we are ignoring this road.

Our co-operating partners have promised to work on the Mansa/Nchelenge Road by resurfacing it. Bear with us. Screaming about every little thing we are doing, sometimes, is not correct. We do have the people of Luapula in mind.

Hon. Kasongo was very passionate in his debate. I understand that you have a future to worry about and your people to serve. However, I can assure you that we have a lot of interest in the Luapula Province and we will do everything possible.

 I know that there have been some innuendoes that there is a problem with the provincial administration. I heard someone talk about it vaguely. However, I think that it is something that can be addressed because, after all, when that management was taken to Luapula, initially, everyone was quite happy.

Therefore, whatever could have developed is something very unfortunate and I do think that the President could deliberately want to eliminate the people of the Luapula Province. Therefore, we are paying a lot of attention to the province. Support us and let us work together.

 I know that, sometimes, I think within this year or last year, the Rural Road’s Unit (RRU) equipment graded the road from Mansa to Chipili and all the way to Hon. D. Mwila’s constituency. It is unfortunate that he can turn around and say nothing was done because the equipment went all the way to his constituency.

I can recall that Hon. Chongo of Mwense raised an issue that the equipment did not reach his place, but he is aware that the equipment was in that area. Like I said, some of the roads are looked at with sentimental reasons. There are roads that lead to chiefs’ palaces and those that lead to specific areas that are being maintained in Luapula. I would disagree that nothing has been done in Luapula because something has been done. The records are there to show the roads that have been graded. I do not think that the equipment could have been lying idle for the whole year.

Of course, it is possible that the money, K2 billion, that was made available in the initial stage was not sufficient to enable them work on the roads throughout the province. However, something was definitely done.

Sir, as regards the money that was budgeted, some money was budgeted under the belief that the co-operating partner was going to release it for work on roads such as the Chembe/Mansa Road. We budgeted believing that our co-operating partners were going to make the money available at a time. However, with what developed, the money was not made available. As such, unfortunately, we defaulted the scheduled grading and rebuilding of some of our roads. It was not intentional.

Of course, this was an unfortunate thing because some of our colleagues in the Opposition were inciting the donors to withdraw funding. When the money is not available, they turn round and say their roads have not been rehabilitated. No. You cannot eat your cake and still have it. You can either encourage them to work with the Government to bring the money to work on the roads or if you tell them not to bring the money, be conscious of the fact that some of the roads that will suffer are yours. All of us have a Zambia to build. This country cannot be developed by us on this side alone. It must be developed with the support of all the leadership of this country.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, it is said that leadership is a labour of love. If you love people, you labour for them. It can be painful to come and sit in our offices to discuss your projects. However, it should not be. You must find it a pleasure because you are not doing it for yourself, but for the people whom you represent.

Sir, I have seen a display of emotions and people are calling us names over a number of roads. However, if you go to the Yellow Book of last year, you will see a number of projects that were based on support from our co-operating partners. When they did not release the money, I do not know whether it was expected that the Government would find money by using magic wands. It is not possible. So, let us be realistic.

Sir, I know the impatience that people are feeling. However, I have said, on the Floor of this House, before that if you want, we can agree that, this year, in the Northern and Luapula provinces, we will only work on two roads and complete them. It is possible because all the money will not be fragmented to be spent on several roads. At the moment, each hon. Member of Parliament wants to see roads worked on in his or her constituency. Now, where does the money come from?

So, Mr Chairperson, with the little that is available, we can only do so much. Therefore, please, understand that there is no selectiveness in our approach. We have projects that are struggling in the whole country. Our reason for doing that is that we would like to develop Zambia together.

Mr Chairperson, if we just concentrated on developing two provinces and ignored the rest, it would not be fair. Therefore, the little that comes from the resource envelope is spread to all the provinces. There are big roads in the Luapula, Northern and Eastern provinces. In some cases, you find that some provinces have two roads to be worked on because their road structure has had no roads to talk about for a long time and so we want them to catch up by giving them something so that they can have two main roads that have been developed.

Hon. Imbwae talked about pontoons. The ministry has been working on a programme to motorise the pontoons that are operational. Previously, we had manual pontoons that were drawn by human hands. Almost all of them have now been motorised. At least, people can cross without much difficulty.

In Zambia, there are so many rivers. Forty per cent of all the water in the region is in Zambia. We have so many rivers and streams in this country, hence it is not possible to build bridges and dams at once.

In the Yellow Book, under Loans and Investments, there are many bridges that have been listed for building. The will is there and the projects are provided for in the Yellow Book, but it cannot work overnight. This is why I would like to encourage hon. Members to look at the Yellow Book critically. Roads, bridges and money for feasibility studies on roads are under the Loans and Investments. Sometimes, hon. Members stand up and talk about the Bottom Road. Therefore, I would like the hon. Members to realise that it falls under Loans and Investments.

There was, also, debate on the Mufulira/Sabina Road. It has already been provided for in the Yellow Book.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: At the moment, Mopani Copper Mines has offered to do the patch work of the road as we await its rebuilding. I am sure discussions have already ensued on that and the mines are moving in to work on the Mufulira/Sabina Road as we wait for the money to work on the entire road. It is under consideration.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Chairperson, I heard one hon. Member talk about putting up humps on the high ways. It is important to put humps, but I would also expect the councils that enjoy these facilities to use some of their resources to provide for these things. It is not possible for us who are in Lusaka to know where humps should be placed. The local leadership must be in the forefront to advise where humps are needed. Where need be, a central point can help and it will be done. However, we would like to encourage the civic leaders in these councils to actively participate in putting up humps.

Sir, I am unable to comment on the Kalimba/Ngwerere Road because I recall the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba requested the World Bank to provide money to work on the road. The hon. Member’s house is along Ngwerere Road and I do not think that it is fair to assume that we are being selective and we do not want to work on the roads in Katuba. It is not that at all. When we sit and debate together in this Chamber, I do not think we become selective and say, “We will not do anything in that place because of the hon. Member of Parliament there.” We are all in this House with the intention to debate. When it comes to development, the planning is done based on submissions. Our annual work plan is not based on guess work. It comes from recommendations that come from the councils, the district development committees and provincial development committees. When we collect all that information, then we make an annual work plan.

Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for giving me an opportunity to wind up debate although it is unfortunate that some of our colleagues are not here to hear the responses for themselves.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 64/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 64/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 64/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 64/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 64/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 76 – (Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development – K40,827,131,451).

The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to give a policy statement for my ministry.

Mr Chairperson, first of all, I would like to state that most of the issues that I would have liked to raise this afternoon were covered, yesterday, in my ministerial statement to the House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, I will just talk about our achievements. I am sure we are all aware of what my ministry has been doing in the area of sport. There was the launch of the Olympic Youth Development Centre, the construction of the Ndola Stadium which is on course and the launch of the Youth Development Fund which was well articulated, yesterday, in my statement. We are also putting up the youth reading and recreation centres, a project that is under the Child Department. We launched one centre in Solwezi and we are yet to launch another one in Chongwe.

Mr Chairperson, there is also the completion of the two youth resource centres that were commissioned recently, one in Mwinilunga and the other in Mpongwe. I am sure the country knows the vision of the ministry that by the year 2030, we would like to have one resource centre in each district.

Mr Chairperson, to emphasise on the Youth Empowerment Fund, let me inform the House that, so far, K1 billion out of the K3 billion has been given out as grants and I would like to encourage my colleagues in this House to quickly apply for this money so that we give it to them.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development. I do not intend to belabour issues pertaining to the ministry, but I just want to make an appeal to the hon. Minister and his staff to consider amending certain requirements for accessing the Youth Empowerment Fund so that youths can easily benefit from the grants given by the ministry.

As the hon. Minister has appointed out, a number of constituencies, including mine, have not benefited from this fund because the guidelines were not clear in the beginning. I even personally attempted, I think on three or four occasions, to apply for the grant for youths in my constituency and the applications were turned down on all occasions. Therefore, the clarification on the guidelines that the hon. Minister made yesterday is very welcome.

I would like to appeal to the ministry not to wait for hon. Members of Parliament to go to the ministry and make individual applications. As the hon. Minister is aware, each constituency has a lot of youths who have formed clubs. Why does the ministry not consider just releasing a block amount of K20 million, for instance, to individual constituencies so that the applications can be processed from the constituencies? All that the ministry would do is just monitor and see to it that the money is utilised for the intended purpose. For hon. Members of Parliament to come to Lusaka to access the grant is costly not only for us, but also the Government. Hon. Members have to incur travel expenses and ensure that this money is disbursed.

As regards the condition that youth clubs need to have a bank account for them to qualify for a grant, some clubs are just in their formative stages and may not even have the money to open an account. As the hon. Minister indicated yesterday, Mwense is a case in point where people have to travel to Mansa to open an account. Therefore, if youth clubs in Mwense, which has no bank, are required to have an account, where are they going to get the money to go to Mansa and open an account for K2 million and how many members should travel to do that? That would be very costly. Therefore, I am suggesting that if the money is given to the constituency as a lump sum, we would have one account for all the youth clubs in the constituency. This is what I have done with the women’s clubs in my constituency. I have formed an association which handles all the financial matters of various women’s clubs and only about three or four people travel to the bank in Mansa, unlike asking every individual club to go to Mansa and make withdraws. That would be very costly. That is my appeal to the ministry.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: The other issue is that of monitoring the use of grants to youth clubs. We are all aware that under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), there is a provision for the monitoring of the usage of this fund. However, who should be running up and down the constituency to monitor the use of Government grants to youth clubs? If it is we, the hon. Members, we need fuel and other logistics. Therefore, my humble request is that there should be some money set aside for that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to say that what is happening currently in the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) is very saddening. The wrangles are very unhealthy for this country and I just want to appeal to the ministry to call the stakeholders together and convince them to resolve their issues amicably because at the end of it all, it is Zambian football that is suffering the consequences of these wrangles. As much as we agree that we have seen problems in FAZ, it should also be noted that some of these people who are making a lot of noise, basically, have their personal interests to serve. They want to take over the running of FAZ themselves.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Those wrangles will badly affect us. I want to urge the Zambians, through Parliament, today, to ignore and condemn some of the people who are speaking so loudly about issues regarding FAZ. We need to resolve these issues amicably so that we do not lose out as a nation.

With these few words, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development is close to my heart.

As I support the Vote on this ministry, I want to bring to the attention of you, the Chairperson and through you, hon.  Minister, to the nation, that if you look around Zambia, today, you will see that the most vulnerable, politically, are our youths. These are the youths on the Zambian streets, at the bus stations and in the colleges. The culture that has evolved, like I say every time, is that of politicians trying to use the youths to upset social order. It is for this reason that I want to passionately appeal to the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development and through him, all the other sister ministries to co-operate in efforts to deal with issues that are affecting our youths. If that is not done timely, of course, we risk our youths being set against us because the enemies of peace or democratisaton have vowed to utilise whatever they can to ensure that they capture the support of the youths. Let me emphasise that it is key for the hardworking Government to find ways of improving the youth programmes in key spheres of our society such as the Zambia Army, Zambia National Service as well as education. We need stability, peace and development. The allocation that has been given to the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development is quite inadequate. However, I also realise that issues to do with the youths are being addressed by other ministries as well. The most important thing for us to do is to look for a strategy to address the critical issues affecting our youths so that nobody capitalises on their vulnerability to set Zambia ablaze.

You will recall, if you watched what happened in Garden Compound, that it was the youths who were in the forefront of demolishing the police station.

I think I have spoken enough.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank my two colleagues for debating so well and we have taken note of their concerns.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
`
(Progress reported)

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Finance and National Planning and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

____________

The House adjourned at 1917 hours until 1430 on Thursday, 18th November, 2010.