DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBlY

Thursday, 17thMarch, 2011

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON THE COMPLAINT BY MR SAKWIBA SIKOTA, SC., MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LIVINGSTONE PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST THE HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR ROAN PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY, MR CHISHIMBA KAMBWILI.

Mr Speaker: I order you, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, Member of Parliament for Roan Parliamentary Constituency, to go and stand behind the Bar of the House. I also instruct the Sergeant-At-Arms to take the Speaker’s mace and stand behind the Hon. Member.

Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, was escorted to the Bar by the Sergeant-At-Arms.

Mr Speaker: Hon Members, I wish to inform the House that, on Friday, 12th November, 2010, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly received a letter of complaint from the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Sakwiba Sikota, SC., MP, against the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP.

In his letter of complaint, Mr Sakwiba Sikota, MP, alleged that during the sitting of the House on Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010, when an amendment to the Anti-Corruption Commission Bill, 2010, proposed by the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Godfrey Beene, MP, was put to a vote, the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Parliamentary Constituency, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, voted on his behalf.

The letter of complaint from Mr Sakwiba Sikota, SC., MP, reads as follows:

 “Dear Madam,

“RE:  COMPLAINT AGAINST MR CHISHIMBA KAMBWILI, MP, REGARDING DIVISION LIST NO. 5 ANTI-CORRUPTION BILL CLAUSE SIX AMENDMENT BY MR BEENE, MP”

“I wish to make a complaint with regard to the above matter”.

“On Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010, before the amendment proposed by Mr Beene, MP, was put to a vote, I was called out by the officers from Public Relations to inform me on the impending trip I had been nominated to undertake to Congo DR.

“Whilst I was with Public Relations, the matter came up for a vote. Consequently, I did not vote on this amendment. Upon my return to the Chamber, I was informed by Mr Kambwili, MP for Roan that he had voted for me. I laughed as I thought he was merely joking. He said this in the presence of the Hon. Bradford Machila, MP.

“It has now come to my notice that, in fact, Mr Kambwili was not joking and I am recorded as having voted on the amendment. Upon my enquiring further with Mr Machila, MP, the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock and Development, confirmed that he did see Mr Kambwili, indeed, voting on my behalf on the said date.

“I wish to state that I did not ask Mr Kambwili to vote for me. Kindly, therefore, have the record of proceedings corrected as it does not reflect my vote. It is also embarrassing for me because in the early 1980’s, I did argue before the High Court that this clause was unconstitutional.

“Yours faithfully,
Sakwiba Sikota SC, MP
LIVINGSTONE MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT.”

Hon. Members, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and in accordance with the principles of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, requesting him to state his side of the story to the complaint against him.

The hon. Member’s letter of response reads as follows:

“Dear Madam,

“COMPLAINT AGAINST ME BY MR SAKWIBA SIKOTA, SC., MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LIVINGSTONE CENTRAL

“I refer to your letter Ref. NAS/11/17/2 dated 16th November, 2010 and wish to state that, indeed, on the material date I did, by mistake, vote using Mr Sikota’s voting piece.

“Madam, you may wish to know that I sit directly on Hon. Sikota’s microphone and when debating most of the time, I use the said microphone due to the fact that we are so squeezed. On this date, I rose up to vote and voted on Mr Sikota’s machine by mistake and after realising the mistake, I informed Hon. Machila, Hon. Kapata and Hon. Mukanga; and immediately Hon. Sikota came back to the House, I informed him and apologised for the mistake I made in the presence of Hon. Kapata. I am surprised that he opted to complain to the Speaker.

“I hold Hon. Sikota in very high esteem and I am just surprised that he could complain over an issue that we talked over.

“Madam, I did not do it purposefully and I regret the inconvenience that this has caused Hon Sikota and the House. Strictly speaking, I did not mean to be malicious and wish to once again unreservedly apologise to Hon. Sakwiba Sikota.

“Yours faithfully,
Chishimba Kambwili, MP
ROAN CONSTITUENCY.”

The House may wish to know, further, that the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly also wrote to the hon Members mentioned by Mr S. Sikota, SC., MP, and Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, in their letters to the Clerk of the National Assembly as witnesses in the matter, requesting them to state what they knew about the allegations against Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP. The following are the responses received from the witnesses:

1. Response from Hon. Bradford M. Machila, MP:

“Dear Madam,

“I refer to the above and to the letter from your official, Mr Mulele, dated 16 November, 2010.

“In brief, I wish to state that I recall that on the date in question, I noticed at the time of voting that Hon. Sikota’s card was in place and had not been removed as is frequently the case at voting. I then took it upon myself to remove the card lest it was used to vote in his absence. It later turned out that I was too late and the card had been used by Hon. Kambwili, who claimed he had inadvertently used the wrong panel or station.
 
“I trust that the above helps shed some light on the matter under consideration.

“Yours Faithfully,
Bradford Machila, MP
MINISTER OF LIVESTOCK AND FISHERIES DEVELOPMENT.”

2. Response from Mr Yamfwa D. Mukanga, MP:

“Dear Madam,

“I refer to your letter dated 23rd November, 2010, on the above subject.

“Madam, on that particular day after voting, I had an appointment to meet my guests.

“After adjournment, in the evening, Hon. Kambwili came to me and informed me of how he accidentally voted for Hon. Sikota. He also told me that he immediately informed Hon. Sikota and the issue was resolved between the two after discussion.

“So I did not bother to follow up since the issue had been resolved between the two. But I am surprised that the issue resurfaced today, Tuesday, 23rd November, 2010.

“This is what I know about the issue.

“Thank you,

“Yamfwa Mukanga, MP
KANTANSHI CONSTITUENCY.”

3. Response from Ms Jean Kapata, MP:

“Dear Madam,

“I refer you to your letter dated 23 November, 2010, on the above subject.

“Madam, I agree that I was in the House when this happened. During voting, Hon.  Kambwili said he had voted on Honourable Sikota’s slot wrongly.

“We both heard, i.e. Hon. Machila and myself.

“I personally told Honourable Kambwili to inform Honourable Sikota immediately upon arrival. When Hon. Sikota arrived, I heard Hon. Kambwili informing him of the casting of the vote wrongly using Hon. Sikota’s slot.

“I also heard them laugh it off. So, I was sure he was informed.

“Thank you.

“Yours faithfully,
Jean Kapata, MP
MANDEVU CONSTITUENCY.”

The House may wish to note that the complaint raised against Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, raises the issue of breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House vis á vis the following issues:

(i) deliberately misleading the House;

(ii) dishonest conduct resulting in wilful misrepresentation of records of the proceedings of the House; and

(iii) breach of rules of procedure and parliamentary etiquette.

Hon Members, the following are the authorities on the above breaches, and you have heard them before:

1. Breach of Privileges Vis-À-Vis Breach of Rules of Procedure and Etiquette

M. N. Kaul and S. L. Shakdher, in their book entitled “Practice and Procedure of Parliament”, sixth edition, on page 291, state that:

“Disobedience to the orders of the House, whether such orders are of general application or require a particular individual to do or to abstain from doing a particular act is a contempt of the House.” 

Further, in the same book, M. N. Kaul and S. L. Shakdher, on page 320, state that:

“In order to maintain the highest traditions in parliamentary life, members of Parliament are expected to observe a certain standard of conduct. Their behaviour should be such as to enhance the dignity of Parliament and its members in general. The conduct of members should not be derogatory to the dignity of the house or in any way inconsistent with the standards which Parliament is entitled to expect of its members.”

2. Breach of Privileges Vis-À-Vis a Member Deliberately Misleading the House

Under parliamentary practice and procedure, any form of an act of misleading the House amounts to contempt. In the past, I have guided the House on the seriousness of this offence. 

Further, past rulings, which form part of the authorities on procedure, practice and rules of the House, show that any Member who presents to the House a false or misleading statement with intent to deceive the House commits a gross contempt.  In the past, hon. Members who had been found guilty of deliberately misleading the House received severe punishment.  

3.         Breach of Privileges Vis-À-Vis Dishonest Conduct Resulting in the Willful Misrepresentation of Records of Proceedings of the House

By voting in the manner that he did, Hon. C. Kambwili, MP, distorted the outcome of the voting.  As a result of this conduct, Mr S. Sikota, SC. MP, was reflected as having voted at the material time when, in fact, this was not the case.  In the past, hon. Members proved responsible for any action resulting in wilful misrepresentation of the proceedings of the House have been punished for breach of privilege and contempt of the House.

Hon. Members, the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services met to consider the matter. Hon. Kambwili was accorded an opportunity to appear before it and to make oral submission on the matter. After examining the written evidence of the witnesses and the verbal submissions of Hon. Sikota, SC. and Hon. Mukanga as well as the verbal submission of Hon. Kambwili, the Committee made the following observations and findings on the matter:

(i) that Mr C. Kambwili, MP, had, indeed, voted on behalf of Mr S. Sikota SC., MP, and had then proceeded to vote on his own behalf, therefore, voting twice; and

(ii) that by voting on behalf of Mr S. Sikota, SC., MP, and on his own behalf and not informing the Presiding Officer of this immediately after realising what he had done, Mr C. Kambwili, MP, had breached the rules and procedures of the House and caused the records of the proceedings of the House to be distorted and inaccurate.

In light of the Committee’s observations and findings that I have just stated, the Committee found Mr C. Kambwili, MP, guilty of breach of parliamentary rules and procedures resulting in the inaccurate recording of the proceedings of the House. Taking into consideration the authorities I have cited and the novelty of the breach committed, the Committee resolved that Mr Chishimba Kambwili, MP, be severely reprimanded at the Bar of the House in accordance with Section 28 of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia, which states that:

“28. (1) Where any member commits any contempt of the Assembly, whether specified in Section 19 or otherwise, the Assembly may, by resolution, either direct the Speaker to reprimand such member …”

Hon. Members, before I proceed to carry out the resolution of the Committee, I wish to correct the record of proceedings that was distorted as a result of Mr C. Kambwili, MP’s breach of the rules and procedures of the House.

As Hon. Members are aware, the House has a duty to ensure that accurate records of its proceedings are maintained at all times so that the nation is not misled.  In this regard and in order to rectify the records of the House, I now direct the Clerk of the National Assembly to expunge the name of Mr S. Sikota, SC., MP, from division list No. 5 of Wednesday, 3rd November, 2010, relating to the amendment moved by Mr G. Beene, MP, to insert a new Clause 36A after clause 36 of the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2010.

Further, at this point, I want to guide the House on the seriousness of this matter.  Hon. Members, voting is one of the mechanisms used by the House to arrive at its decisions. This right is given to every hon. Member to exercise on behalf of his or her constituents. In this regard, it is gross misconduct and a serious breach of the rules and procedures of the House for any hon. Member to attempt to exercise it on behalf of another hon. Member whose constituents he does not represent.

Further, the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2005, regulate the proceedings of the House in order to ensure the decorous and dignified conduct of its business.

Standing Order 63 (1), which provides the procedure to be followed in the House whenever a matter is put to the vote, states that:

“63 (1) Members calling for a Division shall not leave the Chamber until after the Division has taken place and shall vote with those who, in the opinion of the Speaker, were in the minority; and every member, other than any member presiding, who is present in the Chamber when the question is put, with the Bar closed, may vote.”

The significance of this provision is that only members present in the House when a matter is put to the vote may vote. It is, thus, clear that an hon. Member cannot vote on behalf of another hon. Member because our rules do not provide for proxy voting. In this regard, an hon. Member who proceeds to vote on behalf of another hon. Member is in breach of the parliamentary rules and procedures. With this guidance, I am confident that such an incident will not recur.

I now turn to address you, Mr C. Kambwili, MP.

I have to inform you that the House is extremely displeased with your conduct of voting on behalf of Mr Sakwiba Sikota, SC., MP, and then proceeding to vote on your own behalf without alerting the Presiding Officer who would have, immediately, remedied the procedural anomaly that had transpired. Further, you could have sought the indulgence of the House to expunge the wrong vote from the record.  However, you kept quiet and the matter was only brought to my attention when Mr S. Sikota, SC., MP, raised the complaint. Your conduct resulted in misleading the House and the public at large as the results of the voting were not a true reflection of the actual votes cast. Your conduct caused grave embarrassment to Hon. Sikota, SC. and to the Assembly and brought the integrity of the House into question. In this regard, you have lowered the decorum and standards of this House.

The rules and procedures of the Assembly that the House has put in place are intended to ensure that hon. Members perform their functions in a dignified and unimpeded manner. I, therefore, now strongly reprimand you and direct you to desist from exhibiting such misconduct in future.

Mr Kambwili, this is not the first time you are being punished for breaching the rules and procedures of this honourable House. You have been reprimanded and admonished several times before, which should be embarrassing for any Hon. Member. I want to believe that disciplinary measures are intended to create a positive change in an individual. This does not seem to be happening to you, which, as an hon. Member, is very sad.

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Mr Speaker: I do hope that this is the very last time the House will have to mete out disciplinary action against you.

I now order you to read, with sincerity, your apology and, thereafter, resume your seat.

Thank you.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I, in my personal capacity as hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Constituency, do hereby sincerely apologise to this House for voting on behalf of Hon. Sakwiba Sikota, SC., by mistake.

I wish to apologise for …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Leave out the words  by mistake” and read out the rest.

Mr Kambwili: I wish to state that I should have brought the issue to the attention of the Presiding Officer. I have reflected on this issue and on your guidance, Sir, and promise that, in future, this will not happen again.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

____

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MATERNITY WINGS CONSTRUCTION IN CHIPILI

354. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when maternity wings would be constructed in the following health centres in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency:

(i) Luminu;
(ii) Mupeta; and
(iii) Chisheta; and

(b) how much money was required to complete the above project.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the Government has continued with its programme of scaling up access to health facilities in order to facilitate the attainment of the Government’s vision in the health sector and also the attainment of the millennium development goals (MDGs) that relate to health. To this effect, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, constructed a total of twenty-eight maternity annexes throughout the country in 2009. Katuba Rural Health Centre in Mwense District benefited from this programme.

In 2010, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, commenced the construction of district hospitals countrywide and Mwense District benefited from this programme. The construction of a new hospital will mean the availability of maternity a wing and theatre. Therefore, women with pregnancy related complications will have improved access to emergency services.

Mr Speaker, the Government is alive to the fact that infrastructure development is highly dependent on the availability of financial resources. In the 2011 Ministry of Health Infrastructure Plan, the Government will put more focus on completing the existing projects. In this regard, the Government will only consider constructing maternity wards at Luminu, Mupeta and Chisheta Rural Health Centres in Chipili Constituency after completing the existing projects. This will also depend on the availability of financial resources.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost of constructing one maternity wing is K160 million. Therefore, the estimated cost to construct three maternity wings at Luminu, Mupeta and Chisheta is K480 million.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Minister whether he is aware that women at Mupeta Rural Health Centre are delivering in a very small room that has no electricity. If he is aware, what is he doing about it?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I am aware that there are delivery rooms at all the three rural health centres. As I said earlier, our commitment is to strengthen health access for our women folk.

In Mwense District, where Chipili Constituency is based, we will construct three more maternity wings, this year, and, thereafter, move on to Mupeta Rural Health Centre. We must, however, keep in mind that the estimated cost for one maternity wing is K160 million. I believe that if the hon. Member is conscientious enough, he is able to tap this money from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and make a difference in his constituency.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, the construction of such infrastructure is done at a great cost of taxpayers’ money. I would like to find out if there is any warranty attached to this infrastructure development because we are seeing newly-built infrastructure breaking down within two years of construction. A good example is Chelstone Clinic where we have lost two lives because it caters for a very big catchment of people delivering. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, all our constructions are of the highest standard. I am not aware of the situation that the hon. Member talked about being as a result of poor infrastructure. I am, however, aware that there is a problem with the maternity wing at Chelstone Clinic, which we have since closed down. We are in the process of mobilising resources to rebuild the centre.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the estimated cost for one maternity wing is K160 million, which is completely unattainable for the ministry. Why, then, can the ministry not come up with something moderate which can cater for the people in rural health centres?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I have difficulties in comprehending what the hon. Member was trying to say.

Interruptions

Dr Kalila: I think that he should refine his english so that I can understand what he says.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister will withdraw the last part of his answer.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the last part of my answer although I did not understand his question. Can the hon. Member rephrase his question.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how many maternity wings and health posts have been constructed throughout the country using the CDF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, since this question relates, specifically, to Chipili Constituency, I am unable to give the hon. Member the exact number of health posts and maternity wings which have been constructed as a result of the CDF off-hand.

Mr Speaker, in my response, I mentioned that the 2009 Annual Framework undertook the construction of twenty-eight maternity wings across the country. If he so wishes, we can carry out a research if he can submit another question relating to this. 

I thank you, Sir.

TEXT BOOKS APPROVAL

355. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education which educational board approves text books used in schools.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Dr Kawimbe): Mr Speaker, the text books for use in schools are approved by the Curriculum Development Centre (CDC) through the following two systems:

(i) educational materials developed by the Ministry of Education are approved by the subject curriculum committees. Members of these committees are subject specialists drawn from different institutions; and

(ii) educational materials developed by publishers and individual authors are approved by a Book Approval Committee consisting of specialists in a particular subject.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, if the CDC is there to approve books that are supposed to be used in schools, why has the Ministry of Education allowed a situation where books not worthy to be used in classrooms are used in public institutions of learning?

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we would be heavily indebted to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi if he could bring to our attention the specific books that he finds inappropriate for our school system.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

FOREIGN JUDGEMENTS ENFORCEMENT

356. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice:

(a) whether there were any foreign judgements registered and enforced in the Zambian courts between 2000 and 2009; and

(b) following the High Court ruling on the registration of the London High Court Judgement in the case of the Attorney-General vs Dr Frederick J. T. Chiluba and others, how the Attorney-General intends to enforce this judgement.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Speaker, three foreign judgements were registered in Zambia between 2000 and 2009 as follows:

(i) in the matter of judgement of the Brussels Commercial Court Belgium Cause No. 2007/HP/FJ001

Between

International Aviation Parts Corporation Limited Plaintiff 
And
Air Zaire (belonging to the Democratic Republic of Congo
Defendant;

(ii) in the matter of the order of the South Gauteng High Court Johannesburg, South Africa, Cause No. 2009/HP/FJ002

Between
Absa Bank Applicant
And
ESCO Trucking CC Respondent; and

(iii) in the matter of the High Court of Malawi, Lilongwe District Registry. Cause No. 2006/HP/FJ002

In the matter of an application by James Rothwell Anscombe.

Sir, the refusal by the High Court of Zambia to register the London High Court Judgement means that the said judgement cannot be enforced in Zambia. As the judgement remains in force in the United Kingdom (UK), the judgement will be enforced in the UK as and when any of the defendants’ assets are traced.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, may I find out from His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice why the Attorney-General, who is a qualified and seasoned lawyer, went to court in London knowing fully well that this judgement cannot be enforced in Zambia where a lot of assets connected to this case are?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, allow me to give a background to this case and why we went to London to start the court action there.

Sir, we received instructions from the Task Force on Corruption that, the defendants in that case had a lot of assets outside this country. Therefore, we engaged companies specialised in asset tracing in the UK and worldwide. We started by obtaining a worldwide freezing order, as instructed by the investigators. These are the people who gave instructions to the Attorney-General. The term ‘instructions’ is a technical term and does not mean that the Attorney-General is ordered to do something. What this means is that, a particular investigator or an arm of Government presents a case to the Attorney-General. If it has reasonable prospects of success, the Attorney-General takes it up on behalf of the Government. Therefore, in this case, we were made to believe that there were a lot of assets. So, we engaged a company called Ovag in the UK, which is a tracing company, and started this particular action.

Hon. Members must be aware that this information has been given in this House before, that we recovered some assets as a result of this judgement outside Zambia. So, there was a basis for starting the action outside the country. We recovered blocks of flats from some of the defendants. As regards the defendant you are interested in, we found nothing.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: We found nothing outside the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: If you have any information of where these assets are, the judgement can still be enforced outside our jurisdiction, especially in the UK. So, that was the position.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, since this Government has failed to enforce the London High Court Judgement, may I find out whether the Government has any intentions of bringing the issue of immunity to Parliament again so that Dr Chiluba is given immunity?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I think that issue will be addressed by the new Constitution. There is a provision to that effect and I think it will be dealt with in that manner. However, we have no such intentions.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice has said that this judgement is enforceable in London, in the UK. Since some of the assets were recovered, is the Government doing anything to assist the UK authorities in enforcing this judgement?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, as I explained, we had appointed and paid money to a company to trace assets outside this country and that company is based in the UK. If the UK Government has any information about the assets, they can provide it and the judgement can be enforced. We have done what we can. It appears the information we were given by the Task Force on Corruption was not correct.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, from that explanation given by His Honour the Vice-President, some assets were traced and also taking into account that in the London High Court Judgement, a sum of about US$40 million was believed to have been siphoned from Zambia, can he explain to us whether that US$40 million, which is a cash asset, will now be recovered through the London High Court?
    
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, in that case, there were several defendants and we managed to recover assets from some of them. Looking back, some of the political parties, particularly the Patriotic Front (PF), used to welcome Dr Chiluba at the Airport, alleging that …

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … he was being persecuted.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: They used to welcome Dr Chiluba at the airport, saying that he was innocent and that he was just being persecuted, but now they have turned round and want us to recover US$40 million when he was not found guilty of misappropriating it as a defendant. The other defendants were found guilty.

Mr Speaker, looking at the judgement, if there is somewhere you know where we can recover some assets associated with him, we are ready to recover those but, to date, we have not recovered anything and no information has been provided. In your camp you believe that he is innocent.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether the Government did not misguide itself by making this House vote and by informing it that it had established a prima facie case over the issue of the former President Chiluba, hence ending up with the removal of his immunity. What is the current Government position regarding that historic vote?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, that matter was taken to a court of competent jurisdiction in Zambia. On the basis of which the immunity was removed. The courts found him innocent and acquitted him and so we have to live with that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, when did the MMD Government find out that the information which was given to them by the Task Force on Corruption was false? Was it in the New Deal Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government or the Umozi Kumawa MMD?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The House cannot follow what you are saying. What do you mean?

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I withdraw Umozi Kumawa which means the MMD under Mr Rupiah Banda for the Easterners.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, as I said, …

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: …, the judgement on this matter is there. If you have any information of where we can get the assets, we can do so but, as I said, you people used to go to the airport to receive the former President when it suited you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: You were saying that he was innocent and that he was just being persecuted. Why has your position changed?

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, what motivated the then Attorney-General and Minister of Justice, the current Vice-President and Minister of Justice, to apply for the registration of the London High Court judgement when he knew that it was only for assets outside the jurisdiction of Zambia? What motivated him to an extent that now the person mentioned in this question has actually been appointed political and economic advisor of the Government?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, by the time we were registering that judgement, when we made the application in the High Court, I was no longer Attorney-General but, going through the record, there were learned arguments advanced on behalf of the State suggesting that the judgement was registrarable, but the High Court rejected those arguments because the defendant, Dr Chiluba, through his lawyers, also applied to set aside the registration. We presented arguments on both sides because we believe in the rule of law.

Mr Speaker, if the courts rule that we are wrong, that is it. Judgements are registered according to the Foreign Judgements Reciprocal Enforcement Act Chapter 76 of the Laws of Zambia. Under that Act, a party in whose favour a judgement is given can apply to register it, but the defendant is equally at liberty to apply to set aside the registration. This is what happened in that case.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Apologise.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President confirm …

Mr Lubinda: Declare interest.

Interruptions

Mr Chongo: … that there have been accusations…

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I would like to listen to the hon. Member. May you ask your question?

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, there have been accusations against His Excellency, President Banda that he has been shielding the former President. Can His Honour the Vice-President confirm that, under the late President Mwanawasa, there were certain properties that were seized and nothing was linked to former President Chiluba?

The Vice President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I can categorically confirm …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: … that we have failed to recover anything. We have conducted diligent searches and engaged asset tracing companies but, unfortunately, we have not found anything. So, I can confirm that you are on firm ground when you state that.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

KASAMA/MPOROKOSO ROAD

357. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the Kasama/Mporokoso Road would be tarred;

(b) what the estimated cost of tarring the road was; and

(c) why the road had not been tarred since Independence.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, the Government has earmarked the upgrading of the Kasama/Mporokoso Road to a paved standard in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) and work will start as soon as funds are made available.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost for the total distance of 285 km is K1.140 trillion.

Mr Speaker, the road has not been tarred since independence due to lack of funds, but at least now every effort is being made to have it improved. It is our hope that funds permitting, the project may commence sometime next year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, Mporokoso is one of the major towns in the Northern Province and almost all other major towns have had their roads tarred. Can the hon. Minister specifically tell us why Mporokoso Road has not been tarred and when the funds for tarring this road are going to be available. It is now forty-seven years after independence, but the funds for this road have not been available. Twacula, fwebena Mporokoso.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! You will interpret the vernacular phrase you used.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the meaning of that phrase is that we, people from Mporokoso, have suffered for too long.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, there are so many roads in the country which are not tarred and we are working on a programme to make sure that these roads are worked on. One of the most important things we have done is to include this road in our SNDP. This means that we appreciate the problems which the people of Mporokoso are facing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Chisala: Mr Speaker, in 2009, we sat down as hon. Members of Parliament from the Northern Province and agreed that shortly after the completion of the Kasama/Luwingu Road, it is was going to be the Mporokoso Road which was going to be worked on. May I know why the Government has shifted goal posts and has instead started tarring the Muyombe/Isoka Road.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, during that time, there were so many agreements made by hon. Members of Parliament, but the major problem we had were resources. On the other hand, the Muyombe Road is as important as the Kasama/Mporokoso Road and, therefore, there is nothing wrong with starting with the former.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how much it costs to tar a kilometre of a road so that the nation can listen because this Government is fond of telling us to use the CDF to construct roads in our respective constituencies.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the rates are quite different depending on the type of work to be done on a particular road. For example, the rate of constructing a road in the Western Province cannot be the same with …

Hon. Opposition Members: How much is it?

Mr Mangani: … constructing a road in Mporokoso.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Mangani: However, on average it is between K2.6 billion to K5 billion depending on the terrain of the area.

Hon. Opposition Members: How much is CDF?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, it is on record that during the recent by-election, the MMD promised the people of Mporokoso that the Government would tar the Mporokoso/Kasama Road this year. What has changed?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, I do not remember saying that we were going to tar that road this year, but that we have included it in our programme, which is the SNDP and, therefore, the road will be worked on.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CO-OPERATING PARTNERS’ FUNDING

358. Mr D.Mwila asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) how much money co-operating partners released from 2006 to 2009 in the following sectors:

(i) education; and
(ii) governance; and

(b) whether co-operating partners had shown any concern with regard to the utilisation of their funds.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the co-operating partners released the following monies to the education sector:

Year Amount (US$ million)

2006 61.03

2007 80.77

2008 65.72

2009  100.27

Total  307.79

Mr Speaker, governance has two major components. There is democratic governance and economic governance. Co-operating partners disbursed a total of US$174.1 million towards governance as a whole in the period 2006 to 2009, out of which democratic governance received a total of US$87.4 million while economic governance received a total of US$86.7 million.

Mr Speaker, co-operating partners have, indeed, shown concern with regard to the utilisation of their funds at various foras and through letters to the Government. You may wish to note that, annually, the Government and co-operating partners hold discussions and dialogue fora called the poverty reduction budget support and high level policy dialogue meetings.

During the poverty reduction budget support meetings, co-chaired by co-operating partners and the Secretary to the Treasury, participants exchange areas of concern on both sides and recommendations to improve the implementation of programmes are also provided.

Sir, during the high level policy dialogue meetings, co-operating partners are again provided the platform, in the presence of hon. Ministers and chaired by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, to discuss policy changes that ensure, among others things, the proper utilisation of both donor funds and Government resources. In addition, you may wish to note that various meetings are held at the technical level between Government officials and co-operating partners to resolve outstanding issues from the two dialogue meetings mentioned above.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning, may I find out from the hon. Minister what commitment has been made by co-operating partners in the mentioned sectors, which are governance and education, for 2010 and 2011.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, commitments have, indeed been made by co-operating partners in the areas that have been indicated. However, there are some co-operating partners that have withdrawn funding to the said sectors. A few weeks ago there was a report in the press about Denmark withdrawing its funding. The explanation for that was well outlined. This withdrawal was in light of the global economic crisis, which has triggered a budget crisis for many of our co-operating partners. So, they have had to cut their expenditures and these cuts include reduction in aid budgets.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning the status of donor support towards democratic and economic governance. How have these funds been utilised and what were some of the bottlenecks that donors have had misgivings over?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, on governance, there are a number of areas where we get support. These include issues to do with the electoral process, for example. We know that donors have been supporting the Government of Zambia to ensure that the electoral process in Zambia is transparent, equitable and fair as possible. So, this is one major area. The donors have also been supporting the fight against corruption. They devoted substantial amounts of resources in the cases involved to trace the so-called plundered assets.

Mr Speaker, on the economic front, the donors have been providing support in many areas which include Budget support. This is money given to the Government of Zambia to spend in according to the Budget that the Government crafts. They have also been supporting various sectors such as health and education. In short, the donors have been supporting us in all the aspects of human life in our country.

I thank you, Sir. 
                           
ZAMBIA FLYING DOCTOR SERVICE

359. Mr Mwango ( Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Health how much money the Government disbursed to the Zambia Flying Doctor Service from January, 2009 to September, 2010 in grants.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the Government disbursed a total of K6,817,722,349.56 to the Zambia Flying Service from January to December, 2009.

Mr Speaker, from January to December 2010, the Government disbursed a total of K5, 622,659,082.00.

Mr Speaker, the funds disbursed by the Government to the Zambia Flying Doctor Service, together with other resources generated by the institution, go towards the payment of personal emoluments and operations such as rural outreach programmes, patient evacuations, delivery of medical specialists to provincial hospitals and servicing of aircraft and aircraft insurance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, may I know if the Government is satisfied with the grants it gives to the Zambia Flying Doctor Service because it seems that in 2009 it disbursed only K6,817,722,349.56 and now it has disbursed K5,622,659.82. Why that difference?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, it is a well known fact that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service receives some grants from the Ministry of Health. However, there is no doubt that, at the moment, the institution is facing challenges taking into account the nature of the aviation industry. Certainly, money will never be enough, but what the ministry is giving to the Zambia Flying Doctor Service is what the Government is able to afford at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, how extensive are the operations of the Zambia Flying Doctor Service. In other words, how many aircrafts do they have which are operational?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Flying Doctor Service is mandated to carry out outreach programmes, as a complementary role to our static facilities particularly, those in the rural areas. At the moment, the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has its presence in five provinces servicing seventeen rural clinics. In terms of aircraft, it has four, but only two are in a serviceable state.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister be kind enough to tell this nation whether the Zambia Flying Doctors Service is still servicing the rural health centres it used to service in the early 1970s if not, what has led to the change in operations?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I did mention in my earlier answer that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service is currently facing some challenges, which include the expensive nature of being in the aviation industry. Yes, it is supposed to service seventeen clinics, but it has not been able to do so because of lack of resources. Then, secondly, as I have just mentioned, out of the four aircraft it has, only two are operational. At the moment, it is not able to operate at full capacity. In fact, as a Government, we are looking at ways of restructuring the organisation so as to make it more efficient and in line with the current realities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister of Health whether the Government has any intentions to extend the services of the Zambia Flying Doctor Service to other provinces, since it currently only operates in five provinces.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, our preoccupation at the moment is to restructure this organisation so as to try and make it more efficient before we can start thinking of spreading its operations to other parts of the country. At the moment, under funding and other difficulties are preventing us from spreading our operations to other parts of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Minister of Health whether the Zambia Flying Doctor Service is still servicing the Luano Valley, after the incident that occurred which led to the death of a doctor.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I can, indeed, confirm that the route to Luano Valley was suspended, as a result of that unfortunate incident and, from that time, it has remained suspended.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, my questions are quantitative in nature. How much should the service be receiving? How many patients should it be treating? What is the proportional activity at the moment relative to what the staff is supposed to be able to do? I hope the question is clear.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Flying Doctors Service at the moment by way of monthly grants receives K600 million. Most of it goes to personal emoluments, but proposals and submissions for it to run at an optimum level suggest that it requires K1 billion per month.

I thank you, Sir.

CHIWENA CLINIC UPGRADING

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Health when Chiwena Clinic in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency would be upgraded to a referral clinic.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, Chiwena Rural Health Centre in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency is situated twenty-three kilometres from Mumbwa District Hospital and eighteen kilometres from Nangoma Mission Hospital. The health centre is served by a population of approximately 9,492 people. The facility has an outpatient department and two staff houses. Currently, Chiwena Rural Health Centre has only four beds instead of twelve beds which are recommended for a rural health centre.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that a rural health centre is intended for a catchment population of 10,000 and Chiwena Rural Health Centre serves a population of approximately 8,492. This is slightly below the catchment population criteria that the Government uses for the establishment of a rural health centre. Further, Chiwena Rural Health Centre is already operating as a referral clinic as all the health posts in the surrounding areas refer patients to this centre, for example, Maimwene Health Post.

Mr Speaker, in future, the Government, indeed, has plans to upgrade health facilities that will be identified for expansion in line with the population and service demand. Chiwena Rural Health Centre is a referral health centre as it already receives patients from Maimwene Health Post. However, there is a need to increase the current bed capacity from four to twelve. To this effect, the Government has included this in the Ministry of Health Infrastructure Operational Plan for 2012.

However, the current approach of the Government towards infrastructure development in the health sector is focused on the construction of district hospitals as well as health posts in order that health services are brought as close to the family as possible. The Government is, currently, constructing Mumbwa District Hospital, which is only 23 kilometres away from Chiwena Rural Health Centre.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, may I find out why Chiwena Rural Health Centre has no doctors?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that we have a severe shortage of health personnel, particularly doctors. At the moment, we are supposed to rationalise the few that the ministry has. However, that is not to say that the people of Chiwena do not deserve the service of competent health personnel. As we are scaling up training and production of various cadres of health personnel, it is hoped that, in future, we shall be able to deploy these cadres across the country, including Chiwena.

Thank you, Sir.

RIDGEWAY CAMPUS RENOVATION

361. Mr Mooya (Moomba) (on behalf of Ms Limata) (Luampa) asked the Minister of Education when the Government would renovate infrastructure at the University of Zambia (UNZA), Ridgeway Campus.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the ministry has been making available resources to UNZA for infrastructure development.

A total of K10 billion was allocated in 2009 and, again, in 2010. This money has been used to rehabilitate and build additional infrastructure at the university. There is also an allocation of K5 billion, this year, 2011, to the institution.

Furthermore, in 2010, the UNZA Council appointed a committee to spearhead financial resource mobilisation for maintenance and rehabilitation. The committee has not yet completed its work plan. In addition, in 2010, the university management, in consultation with the University of Zambia Students Union (UNZASU), introduced a maintenance and rehabilitation fee of K35,000 per semester for each student. The collection of this fee was implemented at registration for the 2010 second semester. So far, K300 million has been collected. The funds collected will be applied to maintenance and rehabilitation, and this activity has already commenced in 2011.

Mr Speaker, in addition, the ministry, recently, commissioned four blocks of hostels at a cost of K13 billion and this has created 240 bed spaces.

I thank you, Sir.

CIVIL SERVICE HOME OWNERSHIP SCHEME

362. Mr Mooya (on behalf of Ms Limata) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning whether the ministry had any plans of establishing a home ownership scheme to enable employees in the Civil Service access loans to construct houses.

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there is, currently, the Public Service Loan Scheme, established in 2006, which enables civil servants obtain loans to construct houses. The scheme is being managed by the Zambia National Building Society.

Mr Speaker, to date, 3,500 applications have been received with a total value of K400 billion. A total of 252 applicants have been paid at a total value of K24 billion.

I thank you, Sir.

NAMUSHAKENDE FARM INSTITUTE

363. Mr Imenda asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether there were any plans by the Government to turn the Namushakende Farm Institute in Mongu District into a university college.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mbewe): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives has one farm institute in each of the nine provinces of the country. These are established for the purposes of staff extension, in-service training and high level farmers’ training. In view of this, the Government, therefore, has no plans to turn any of the farm institutes into university colleges and this includes Namushakende Farm Institute in Mongu District.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware that Namushakende Farm Institute has been run down. If he is, will the Government, therefore, allow a private investor to rehabilitate the institute and transform it into a university college under the private-public partnership (PPP) other than leaving it in the state it is at the moment?

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware of the rehabilitation of the institute. That is why the Government has set aside some funds to be used on the rehabilitation of houses for camp officers and agricultural infrastructure in general.

Sir, at the moment, we, as a Government, do not have immediate plans to go into a PPP to run the agricultural institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

MINERS’ COMPENSATION

364. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security when the Government would raise compensation payable, under both the Workers Compensation Act No. 10 of 1999 and the Pneumoconiosis Act, Cap. 217 of the Laws of Zambia, to miners that contracted the pneumoconiosis disease in the course of their employment.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the compensation benefits paid not only to miners, but also to all beneficiaries under the Workers’ Compensation Fund are not commensurate with the current living costs. The Government has, therefore, began the process of amending the Workers’ Compensation Act No. 10 of 1999 which, in its current form, restricts the upward adjustment of benefits.

Mr Speaker, currently, the benefit payable is calculated at 50 per cent of the assessed earnings per worker. The formula is responsible for the payment of meager benefits. This issue was discussed at the last Tripartite Consultative Labour Council meeting held in January, 2011 and it was resolved that the Ministry of Labour and Social Security should be given powers to regularly review the rate of benefits payable upon recommendation from the board based on the actual advice and prevailing economic conditions.

The proposed amendments are now at the Ministry of Justice for clearance before Cabinet approval after which the draft Bill will be presented before this august House.

Mr Speaker, it is worth noting that the Workers’ Compensation Fund Control Board and Pneumoconiosis Compensation Board were merged in 1999 through the recommendation of the National Social Security Reform Implementation Committee. Therefore, all occupational diseases and employment injury related issues are under the Workers’ Compensation Fund Control Board.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security when the Workers’ Compensation and the Pneumoconiosis Acts were last reviewed.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, in the answer that we have given, we have indicated that we have just been reviewing this law and so it is actively being considered for review.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, under the Pneumoconiosis Act, Cap. 217 of the Laws of Zambia, it is a requirement that when a miner retires, he should continue to go for Pneumoconiosis examination for ten years. Now, the new mining owners …

Mr Speaker: Order!

You are now debating.

Mr Kambwili: May I know why the new mining owners are not taking retired employees for Pneumoconiosis examination for the purpose of compensating them if they develop this disease.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, we have no complaints, at the moment, to the effect that those who are supposed to be examined are not being examined. If there are such complaints, the aggrieved are free to bring them to the attention of the ministry and they will be addressed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, there are other laws which have been amended in this ministry, but have not been followed. Therefore, I would now like to find out how the ministry is going to make sure that these new laws which will be amended are followed because, at the moment, even the minimum wage which has been increased is not being followed by some companies.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, we have a department that is responsible for inspections. This ensures that if there are any employers or, indeed, institutions that are violating labour laws, they are immediately brought to the attention of the ministry so that necessary steps are taken to address the complaints. It is our intention to continue and even intensify these labour inspections. In case there are some that are known, the hon. Member is free to report any persons that may be breaking the law to the ministry so that necessary action can be taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the ministry should wait for complaints rather than take action to ensure that various companies and mine owners follow the law which is already in place.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, I just answered that question. I said that we have the Labour Inspection Department which ensures that if there are any issues that relate to employers breaking the law, the ministry is immediately alerted. I also said that we have no information relating to the complaints that you are talking about. It is not that we are waiting for complaints, but that we have no such complaints or information that people who qualify for medical attention are, indeed, being denied that facility. If you have that information, let us know. That is what I am saying.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

CATTLE RESTOCKING EXERCISE

365. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development whether the cattle restocking exercise in areas which were once affected by the Foot and Mouth, and Corridor diseases were still being implemented by the Government.

The Deputy Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Mulonga): Mr Speaker, the Government is, currently, only carrying out the restocking exercise in the Central Province where a total number of 112 farmer groups have benefited from the 700 cattle since 2007.

Mr Speaker, this is due to other parts of the country still being affected by various livestock diseases such as contagious bovine pleural-pneumonia (CBPP), foot and mouth and corridor.

However, major restocking programmes are being conducted in areas once affected by livestock diseases by our co-operating partners such as the Heifer Project International and World Vision.

Moreover, the Government is in the process of establishing livestock breeding centres (LBCs) in all the nine provinces of this country. These centres are to be used to breed livestock, including cattle, which will be distributed for restocking to areas which are certified to be free of livestock diseases.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister give us a bit more information on where the ministry will establish the LBCs so that we can try to have more cattle in that province?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, currently, we are disbursing K200 million in Kawambwa to rehabilitate Chishinga Ranch. As I speak, a house for the ranch manager is being built.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell us whether the classification of these areas that he mentions as being certified free of cattle diseases is significant in the sense that it is safe to put new cattle in there without the residue of infection re-infecting them and restarting the whole problem. Are these areas where his ministry is working really cleansed? 

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, when we talk about certification of some places as being free of disease, we talk about diseases of economic importance. These are the diseases which are of our concern, as a Government.

Therefore, Sir, what we are saying is that, currently, we are carrying out the vaccinations and monitoring and surveillance of these places where the diseases are deemed to be active. Once we are fully satisfied and the International Organisation of Animal Health is called to inspect those places, then they will be certified free of diseases. That is why we are raising these other animals in readiness for distribution to these places once this activity is done.

I thank you, Sir.

EDUCATIONAL CONFERENCE

366. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Education when the last educational conference was held.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education is involved in various conferences each year, both at the local and international level, which look at various issues, including early, basic, high school and tertiary education. The ministry has also attended conferences on adult literacy.

Sir, as a member of various regional and international groupings, Zambia, through the Ministry of Education attended SADC/AU/UNESCO and the Commonwealth Conferences on Education. In 2010, some of the local, regional and foreign conferences  held on education included:

(i) Southern African Developing Countries (SADC) Ministers of Education Conference in Congo DRC in April, 2010;

(ii) Emergency SADC Ministers of Education Meeting Conference, which was held in the Republic of South Africa, in June, 2010;

(iii) SADC Norms and Standards Expert Meeting in South Africa, August, 2010;

(iv) Southern, Eastern and Africa Consortium for Monitoring Education Quality (SACMEQ) Meeting for National Research Co-ordinators, France, July, 2010;

(v) Out of School Children Data Capture Conference, Turkey, 2010;

(vi) Global Education Technology Summit in London, January, 2010;

(vii) Global Education Technology Summit in SADC, South Africa, 2010;

(viii) Care and Support in Monitoring and Evaluation, South Africa, 2010;

Sir, the last educational conference hosted by the Ministry of Education in Zambia was the E-Learning Conference held in May, 2010.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, if such conferences were held, may I know why the University of Zambia and Copperbelt University are not involved in such important programmes.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the staff at our two public universities are involved in these conferences.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

TEACHERS’ CONFIRMATION

367. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Education how many teachers were confirmed by the Teaching Service Commission in 2010 in:

(a) pre-school;
(b) basic schools;
(c) high schools.

Dr Kawimbe: Mr Speaker, the Teaching Service Commission confirmed 4,204 teachers in 2010 segregated as follows:

Category    No. of Teachers   

Pre-School   No teachers were confirmed because the Ministry of 
Education does not employ pre-school teachers, at the moment

Basic School   3,431

High School 773

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended I was about to make a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, in 2010, less than twenty teachers were confirmed by the Teaching Service Commission, leaving the majority of teachers unconfirmed …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can the hon. Member ask the question, please.

Mr Chisala: Madam, may I know why the majority of teachers were not confirmed when the submissions were made to the office of the District Education Board Secretary.

Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, the total number of teachers who were confirmed in 2010 was 4,204. There is definitely, a big difference between twenty and 4, 204. In fact, if you look at the basic schools in the Northern Province, where the hon. Member comes from, the number of teachers who were confirmed at the basic school level was 202, and thirty-three at the high school level.

Madam, as we indicated earlier, on the Floor of this House, the backlog that we used to have, of unconfirmed teachers, has been pretty much cleared. The ministry is now encouraging all headteachers and district education board secretaries to submit the required documents for the few teachers who have not yet been confirmed.

Madam Speaker, further, every year, the ministry, together with the Teaching Service Commission, undertakes provincial tours to deal with different cases affecting teachers, including confirmations.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, may I know how many teachers out of the 4,204 were confirmed within the statutory requirement of six months and how many were confirmed after six months.

Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, it is very important to appreciate that confirmation is a continuous process. It is a not a static process. Every time teachers are employed, six months down the road, they are confirmed. That is why the type of statistics which are given are dynamic.

We will be able to provide this type of information once our human resource information system, when it  is computerised, comes on line. At the press of the button, we will be able to provide that type of information. At the moment, a large part of our system is still manually operated and generating a factual answer to a question like that is technically not possible at the moment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Madam Speaker, what are the basic requirements for a teacher to be confirmed? Further, can a teacher be confirmed before he/she is inspected by a standards officer?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Madam Speaker, I did say on the Floor of this House just a few days ago that, in the Ministry of Education, we are also concerned about the time it takes for us to process confirmations. The final solution is really that we need to automate our process so that, at a certain time, six months after a teacher has been teaching, something prompts a system for the confirmation to take place. This does not seem to be happening even though we are making all efforts to make sure that as many teachers as possible are confirmed and the backlog is reduced.

Madam Speaker, for a teacher to be confirmed, obviously, at the point of recruitment, they have to state their minimum qualifications in terms of training. They should show that they went to a recognised teacher training college and that they are actually a qualified teacher. Thereafter, once they begin teaching, they have to be observed by the headteacher, senior teachers and standards officers. The ideal situation would be that before a teacher is confirmed, a standards officer goes to monitor the teacher to see if he/she can actually teach. Sometimes, we find it difficult to send our standards officers to all the schools. However, in the Ministry of Education, we believe the first point of management is the headteacher and we believe that the headteacher provides enough capacity for us to assess that this teacher is actually teaching well. Unless there is something truly averse, within six months, the teacher should be confirmed but, obviously, as you all know, this does not happen. Sometimes, what affects the confirmations are the transfers since teachers are supposed to be in areas where they are needed, especially in rural areas and areas where literacy levels are very low.

Madam Speaker, for example, in the Eastern and Luapula provinces, we try to send as many teachers as possible to these provinces. However, we find that, on paper, the teachers are there, and yet they have actually moved out of the province. So, to try and confirm them and for the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) and the Provincial Education Officer (PEO) to be following this up, it becomes quite chaotic. That is because the system works manually. I believe that with all the effort and investment we are making in automating the system, in a few years, issues of late confirmations will be history.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

___________

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE TOLLS BILL, 2011

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane) (on behalf of the Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Namulambe)): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, I rise to present a Bill to repeal and replace the Tolls Act No. 11 of 1983. The new Bill is meant to establish and provide for the operation, charging and collection of tolls on our roads as well as provide for the private sector’s participation in the tolling of our roads. The Bill will also repeal and replace the current Tolls Act and provide for matters connected to or incidental to the tolling of our roads.

Madam Speaker, it is necessary to introduce tolls on our road network in order to recover both financial and road costs and generate increased revenue for re-investment and reduce over dependence by all on the Treasury. Additional revenue is required for the Government to construct and maintain all the rural and urban roads in the country. The Government needs to raise funds from road users in order to maintain the road network.

Madam Speaker, the Tolls Act, 1983, is outdated and does not take into account modern trends in the collection of tolls. The Bill, as drafted, also included the participation of the private sector in the mechanism of managing and collecting tolls. With this new legal framework, the country is assured of additional revenue necessary for the construction of roads and other related infrastructure. This Bill is progressive and not controversial. I, therefore, urge the hon. Members of Parliament to support it.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the Tolls Bill was referred to your Committee by the House on 1st March, 2011. The objects of the Tolls Bill are enlisted as bellow:

(a) to establish and provide for the operations of toll roads;

(b) to provide for the charging and collection of tolls;

(c) to provide for private sector participation in the tolling of roads;

(d) to repeal and replace the Tolls Act of 1983; and

(e) to provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, in scruitinising the Bill, your Committee requested written submissions from various stakeholders who then appeared before your Committee and made oral submissions. The stakeholders, while welcoming the Bill, raised pertinent concerns.

Madam Speaker, the common complaint submitted by most stakeholders was that a large part of Zambian roads are damaged by foreign road users who pay little money for their usage. However, the tolling of a selected number of roads in our country is welcome and has been actually long overdue.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, therefore, your Committee urges the Government to expedite the measure of tolling the economically viable roads with a view to constructing and repairing the road network urgently in the country. Your Committee observes that, for sometime, Zambia has been dependent on donor funding for road construction and maintenance. This is not healthy at all, as it is not sustainable in the long term. It is against this background that your Committee urges the Government to ensure that enough locally-generated revenue is collected through tolling of the economically-viable roads. The funds, so collected, should be used for the construction and maintenance of Zambian roads.

Madam Speaker, your Committee further observes that local authorities are also road agents for the Road Development Agency (RDA). As road agents, local authorities have delegated power of undertaking routine road maintenance works.

Your Committee is advancing the view that this mandate should not only end at undertaking road maintenance works but also go further by involving them in the administration of the toll gates. This fresh mandate will enhance the maintenance of roads within the jurisdiction of the local authorities.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes, with concern, that different associations have sprang up in bus stations, bus stops and taxi ranks. These associations charge other road users exorbitant illegal fees for using the bus stations and taxi ranks. These impostors deprive the Government of the much needed revenue for improving those places.

In view of this development, your Committee urges the Government to set up efforts to rid all bus stations, bus stops, parking slots and taxi ranks of imposters, who collect illegal fees. Your Committee, further urges the Government to act quickly to replace all those illegal entities with user-friendly toll collectors and inspectors as provided, in the Tolls Bill.

Madam Speaker, your Committee further observes, with concern, that the proposed Tolls Bill may attract an increase in transport fares and high food prices. From experience, it has been observed that when there is any increase in any service related area such as fuel or duty on motor vehicles, it automatically translates into increases in transport fares and food prices.

In light of the forgoing, Madam Speaker, your Committee urges the Government to embark on vigorous sensitisation programmes targeted at the motorists and the public at large, to explain the benefits of tolling the economically-viable roads. To enable easy compliance, this exercise should be done before the Bill is passed into law. Further, your Committee implores the Government to ensure that transport fares and the pricing system of food are not adversely affected by this measure.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that in countries where the practice of tolling roads is prevalent, there is a provision of an alternative road, which is usually gravel, for those who cannot pay for the tolled roads.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

Mr Imenda: Madam, your Committee urges the Government to take into account that arrangement as it tolls selected economically viable roads.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, may I, on behalf of the Committee on Communications, Transport, Works and Supply, express my sincere gratitude to you for your guidance. My appreciation also goes to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered to your Committee. Last, but not least, your Committee extends its appreciation to all stakeholders who interacted with your Committee.

Madam Speaker, your Committee supports this Bill, subject to the concerns described in the report.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Speaker, from the onset, I wish to state that I support the Bill on the Floor. I further wish to state that this Bill is in fact long overdue.

Madam Speaker, in neighbouring countries, toll fees were implemented a long time ago, and they have helped with road works. I remember that in the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era, an attempt was made to try and introduce road toll fees. We saw the construction of booths all the way from Livingstone to Kitwe. Unfortunately this programme was discontinued although a lot of money was spent and wasted. Today, all those booths have been demolished. There is not a single one remaining along the roads. This simply means that we have to restart the process of reconstructing these booths or road toll control centres all over again.

Madam Speaker, the biggest challenge that we have is how we will utilise the revenue collected from the toll fees. For instance when fuel levy was introduced, the Zambian people were told that the money realised would be utilised to repair the road network in the country. Unfortunately, we have seen that very little has been achieved in as far as the repairing of the road network is concerned. Today, when you go to various cities, and most especially Kitwe, even township roads have become impassable. It is a nightmare to drive along these roads when going home. This has really been a very big challenge for the Government.

Madam Speaker, I am at a loss because I do not know whether the toll fees that will be collected will be used to work on improving the state of the roads in our country or not. There has been mention in the report on page 7 which I want to quote:

“While it is with good intentions that all toll fess collected at all form part of the road fund under clause 11 of part III, there might be need to first consider spending the funds on maintenance of the roads from where it was collected from before spending it on any other roads. This is because it would be unfair taking funds to repair or maintain other roads while the road where the fees were collected from is in a bad state.”

Madam Speaker, this is very true. This is the same concern that we raised with regard to fuel levy. A large component of fuel levy is collected from places like the Copperbelt where there is so much activity. However, there is very little money that is being ploughed back to try and maintain the roads in areas where the largest component of the fuel levy is received.

Even in this particular factor, I am doubtful whether the Government will consider what I have just said, important as it is. We have seen situations where a Bill is passed in this House and becomes law, but it cannot be implemented. A good example is the mineral royalty tax. We passed a law in this House that Mineral Royalty tax should be shared with local communities and authorities. To-date, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has failed to implement this law. All the money being collected in form of mineral royalty is being taken to Control 99 and we do not know how it is being utilised.

It is very important that we are committed to whatever is being passed on the Floor of this House. We should not be used as parliamentarians to pass such laws and then later fail to implement them. We should also look at how we intend to tax the people operating these facilities.

Zambia, despite being a landlocked country, is blessed in that whoever wants to do business with Angola, Zimbabwe, Malawi or Tanzania has to pass through the country. There has been so much trade happening within the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region. We have seen a lot of vehicles being imported from Japan and being brought into the country or simply passing through heading to various countries. If we had introduced the toll gates long ago, we could have realised substantial amounts of money.

Madam Speaker, I disagree with what is being proposed on page 4 of the report in Clause 18, on the duty to maintain toll road. Clause 18 places an obligation on a concessionaire to maintain the toll road to which the concession agreement relates in good repair and condition and in accordance with sound engineering and operating practices.

Madam Speaker, this cannot work. There is no way a road can be given to a concessionaire to charge toll fees and at the same time ask him to repair the same road at his own time. Most of the time, this person will be asked why the road is not in good repair, he will say he has not collected enough money to start working on that road.

A practical example is in the neighbouring Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). The road from Kasumbalesa to Lubumbashi was given to a concessionaire in the same manner. For over ten to fifteen years, the contractor was busy making money and, meanwhile, working at a snail’s pace to repair that road. In the end, the contract had to be cancelled.  China Heinan had to be brought in to work on the road. That road was done within a short period of time.

Madam Speaker, what is important here is to monitor those who will be given these roads such that they are made to pay adequately part of what is being realised to the RDA). The RDA is to identify contractors that will be given the task to repair these roads.

Dr Katema: Eba kalalya beeka!

Mr Mwenya: It is important to identify contractors at a time when we have prepared enough money so that the roads are done in good time.

My cry, Madam, is that the township roads are in a very bad state with nothing being done about them. The local authorities are supposed to play a major role in the collection of toll fees so that the township roads can also be worked on. We would want the township roads to go back to the state in which they were when Zambia became independent.

Mr Lubinda: Yes!

Mr Mwenya: In Kitwe, places like Parklands and Riverside used to have very good roads. Today, these are the areas where you find dusty roads. Hon. Members of Parliament, the shortest way of working on these roads is by simply taking a grader there and removing the tar and pouring laterite and forget. What we want to see is that these roads are worked on in the manner that they get back to the state in which they were to make our cities look as beautiful as they used to be a long time ago.

In short, Madam Speaker, I would like to say that I support the Bill on the Floor.

I thank you, Madam.{mospagebreak}

Mr Misapa (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving this opportunity to address this august House, in yet another maiden speech after my re-election as Mporokoso Member of Parliament.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Through you, Madam, I would like to thank the people of Mporokoso for giving me yet another opportunity to serve them. I would also like to thank Hon. Geoffrey Bwalya Mwamba, my Campaign Manager, Hon. Willie Nsanda, all members of the Central Committee (CC), Patriotic Front (PF) loyal hon. Members of Parliament, …

Mr D. Mwila: Na ma rebels!

Mr Misapa: … the province, district, constituency, wards, branches, sections, the churches, marketeers, Mr Mulungu Freddy, my wife, children, brothers and sisters.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam, I recognise that the job of a Member of Parliament in a deprived area like Mporokoso is not an easy one.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: My people expect me to speak on their behalf in order to deliver tangible development.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Like many rural areas of our country, Mporokoso has many problems which, the MMD Government does not seem prepared to deal with.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: As a result of this neglect, many people in my constituency are very angry with this Government to the extent that even after I had resigned from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), I was still associated with its failures, …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo!

Laughter

Mr Misapa: … which made my re-election a bit complicated.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: To this end, I would like to thank my party, the Patriotic Front (PF) …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: … and, in particular, my President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: … for the confidence that he they showed in me by allowing me to pursue an attempt to address the suffering of my people in Mporokoso.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, I recognise that this was not easy for the PF because of the damage that my association with the MMD had done to my character and standing to the people of Mporokoso.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: The PF worked tirelessly and delivered this victory for the people of Mporokoso and the people of Zambia.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: The election in Mporokoso was characterised by massive attempts by the MMD to corrupt the electorate.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: A lot of money and food was distributed in what looked like an attempt to buy the voters.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: However, the people of Mporokoso refused to be bought and decided to don’t kubeba, which implies that you can get their gifts, but do not tell them who you are going to vote for.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: They ate their food and took their money, but decided to vote for change.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, Mporokoso’s development will come about through agriculture, its potential for tourism, …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: … mining, potential for power generation, its hardworking people and road network.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: However, Madam, all these cannot bring about development to the district without a proper road network.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: This has been my song in Parliament and I will continue to talk about the same so that the MMD Government can also give the people of Mporokoso their share of the national resources.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, on the issue of agriculture, I wish to state that Mporokoso District has a very good climate with reliable rainfall. Soils are good for a good number of crops such as maize, beans, cassava and finger millet.

The district is one of the districts with the highest number of streams for irrigation for the growing of crops such as sugarcane, coffee as well as tea. Maize is a crop which requires fertilisers and suitable seeds. The people of Mporokoso would produce a lot of maize because it boasts of a reliable rainfall pattern. Disappointingly, under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), farmers who used to get eight bags per pack are now getting four or two bags per pack. This has demotivated the farmers in Mporokoso Constituency.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Therefore, in its current fashion, the FISP does not support development in its true sense. I am appealing to the Government of the day to increase the number of bags of fertiliser.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: We shall increase!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, regarding tourism, I wish to inform the House that, Mporokoso District has eleven beautiful waterfalls. Lumangwe, Kabwelume, Lupapa and Mumbuluma are some of the waterfalls found in the area. These can be very good tourism attractions which can contribute to the generation of income for the people of Mporokoso and the nation as a whole.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, power generation is a very important factor which can contribute to the development of this nation. Mporokoso Constituency has a lot of rapids which can be used for the generation of electricity to be used in the country and reduce the load shedding which the country has been facing.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Part of the generated electricity can also be exported to other countries that do not have this advantage.

Hon. Member: Finally!

Interruptions

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, on mining, Mporokoso has many deposits of minerals such as copper, manganese and gold. However, these minerals can only be mined in large quantities …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

I would like to listen to the hon. Member who is giving his maiden speech. Some of you are literally debating across the Floor. Can we listen. If we have to consult, let us do it the Parliamentary way.

Will the hon. Member continue.

Mr Misapa: … if the Government can source good and suitable investors. People need to understand that mining is very profitable and rewarding, but requires huge investment. Hence, it is very shameful for some people to start talking about briefcase or pocket mining licences. We want powerful mining investments where a lot of people will be employed to produce more minerals for more income generation for the nation.

Madam Speaker, despite not being supported by the Government of the day, the people of Mporokoso are hardworking. They are self-reliant and have never cried for food relief. They have contributed to agricultural production in so many ways. For example, much of the beans supplied to hospitals, boarding schools and prisons in the country is produced in Mporokoso.

Madam Speaker, Mporokoso District has a very poor road network which has contributed to its under development. Even if it has the potential for the growth of agriculture, tourism and mining, all these cannot bring about development because of the poor road network. For example, the Kasama-Mporokoso, Mporokoso-Kawambwa and Mporokoso-Kaputa roads are impassable.

Hon. PF Members: Shame!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, it is, therefore, very difficult to market agricultural produce and to do business in Mporokoso. The poor road network is what the people of Mporokoso have been crying about and I have always complained about this in this august House. I will continue talking about it until this Government gives a share of the national resources to the people of Mporokoso Constituency by tarring the roads I have stated.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, in Mporokoso Constituency, there are some areas, like Nsunge, which have Government schools, but have no infrastructure. Nsunge also has a polling station, but has no road leading to it, forty-seven years of Independence.

Hon. PF Members: Shame!

Mr Misapa: Madam Speaker, as a result, during voting time, the Government uses a chopper, and yet this area is only 62 km from Mporokoso post office. Sunkutu or Mititima area has no proper road or bridge. Furthermore, on the Luangwa River, there is just an unreliable pontoon and many lives have been lost.

Madam Speaker, the people of Mporokoso have spoken. There is nothing for the MMD in this country. Mark my words. Mporokoso marked the final burial of the MMD.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Bye-bye!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to comment on the Bill before us.

Madam Speaker, like other hon. Members who have debated before me have said, this Bill is, indeed, long overdue. Looking at the expanse of our country, the road network, in particular, I do not think that the National Treasury has the capacity and resources needed to maintain and create new roads.  Therefore, this Bill is timely because it has come at a time when the nation is growing economically and, therefore, needs good roads for people not only to move around, but also market their produce.

Madam Speaker, this source of revenue is going to help the release of resources to other deserving areas. However, if this is not properly managed, the benefits which will come out of such a very good idea may not show on the ground. We have seen contracts awarded to what I would term briefcase contractors. The Government’s policy of trying to help small-scale Zambian contractors to become viable is welcome, but only serious ones should be identified. I have in mind contractors who do not even have simple equipment like wheelbarrows, but have been given contracts for which they do not have the capacity to undertake.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply has awarded contracts to contractors who take two to three years of doing anything while in the meantime the Government thinks that something is being done. I will give an example of my constituency. There is a road at 15 Miles which goes to my village, in Chombela, where I am a headman. A contract to work on the road was awarded, in 2009, and this is 2011, and yet nothing has happened.

Madam Speaker, these are projects where the Government should get mileage and be considered as working. Alas, nothing has been done. Repeatedly, I have gone to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to complain about the contractor. Why should we give jobs to people who cannot perform?

Madam, in my constituency, we have the Zambia National Service (ZNS) which has equipment and if this equipment could be used by people who are capable of doing work, the people would attest to seeing the Government at work. They would not complain like those in Mporokoso, who are showing their displeasure by voting against the Government, are doing. If we, as a Government, committed ourselves, people would not think that we are giving contracts to our relatives who do not have the capacity to do the works.

Madam Speaker, today, people are suffering because of poor roads. Some roads have water to a depth of 2 metres. Who is expected to use these roads? It is our people. Therefore, in future, when a contract to carry out works is awarded and the contractors are not on the ground in six months or a year down the line, the contract should be withdrawn and be given to somebody else.

Madam Speaker, I am happy with the works done by the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). I am proud to say that, in my constituency, we have used the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to contract the RRU who are doing a great job. Comparatively, this is an example of the Government doing beautiful work. So, why are we giving contracts to these briefcase contractors? Is it because when we give contracts to Government units, there is no kickback? As a Government and hon. Members, we are being messed around by these briefcase contractors because if people do not get the services, they blame the Government for not working.

Madam Speaker, we, therefore, need to awaken to this and find a solution. The money that we will raise from toll fees will help free the funds we have been using to maintain roads which are damaged by foreign companies that extract our natural resources from the Copperbelt, North-Western, Western and most of our provinces, where they are leaving nothing. At the moment, the Central Government has to use its meagre resources to maintain infrastructure in areas where natural resources are being extracted. I think we need to divert the money that we will save towards maintaining these areas. We need to find a way of putting Government presence in these areas.

Madam Speaker, I feel that we have enough capacity in this country. However, I have heard people complain about contracts being given to the Chinese. If we give a contract to a Chinese and good quality work is completed on time, I think, I would prefer we give the contract to a Chinese than a Zambian contractor who would get a down payment and go to watch football in Manchester. We should give contracts to very serious people. Alternatively, let us give contracts to Government units which will do a commendable job that will make our people happy.

Madam Speaker, with these very few words, I support the Bill.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Madam Speaker, I stand here to support the Bill because it was my idea.

Interruptions

Mrs Musokotwane: If you remember, around 2005, I brought an oral question in this House on tolls. I am glad the Vice-President is nodding. At that time, there was concern over who was going to account for the money collected from toll gates and it faced a lot of opposition. However, I am so glad that, today, we are talking about tolls and I am sure that we are going to pass this Bill. This makes me very happy. I am sure I will put it on my curriculum vitae (CV) as one of those things I have achieved in this House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: However, I am wondering when we will start implementing this. I do not think we should wait until we build toll gates because, in Zimbabwe, there are tolls even when there are no buildings. All they have done is to put cones on the road so that when a vehicle by passes them, it stops and pays. While we are planning to build toll gates, I think, we can now start doing something like what is being done in Zimbabwe so that we can raise money to build the infrastructure for toll fees.

Madam Speaker, in the response I got from my question, the biggest problem was the source of money for building the toll gates. I am, therefore, giving the Executive another idea of just putting cones on the roads instead of waiting for the construction of toll gates. It is alright for us to even start doing this tomorrow.

Now, the other thing we need to think about, which was also included in my question, are road camps. At that time when I asked the question on road camps, there was also a lot opposition. Now that the Government is thinking of tolls, it must also be thinking about road camps. This is because the roads will need more servicing than is the case now.

Madam Speaker, I just stood up to say this is a very good Bill and well done to the Government for taking by idea.

Thank you very much, Madam.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, from the outset, I want to say that I do not support this Bill.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kambwili: This Bill is not progressive and is an infringement on the Zambian people who pay tax. In countries where toll fees are applied, there are alternative roads for the use of those people who cannot afford to pay toll fees. We cannot start charging people toll fees when we have only one road from Lusaka to the Copperbelt. We can only start charging people toll fees if there is an alternative road from the capital to the Copperbelt. Toll gates are supposed to be used to avoid congestion on certain roads and not to raise money to repair roads.

At the moment, there are enough taxes and our people are being taxed heavily to raise money for repairing roads. We have the pay as you earn (PAYE), value added tax (VAT), excise duty and fuel levy. If this Government has been collecting fuel levy, but failing to repair roads, then that is its problem. The introduction of toll gates is not going to sort out the problem of maintaining roads. However, if the toll fees are going to be introduced to charge foreign vehicles, I will be the first one to accept this. The Zambian people are already paying too many taxes for the Government to bring another tax which is going to affect them.

Madam Speaker, your Committee has even stated that toll fees should be charged on economically, viable roads while gravel roads should be created for the poor who cannot afford these fees. I mean, that is unacceptable. These poor people buy sugar for which they are charged VAT as well as pay PAYE from their salaries. Why should they, therefore, be made to travel on gravel roads? That should not be allowed. We must be serious with the way we run this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, we should not just copy things that we find in countries like Botswana, South Africa and England. On the M1, which is the main road in the United Kingdom from Scotland to London, there is not even a single toll gate on it. Yet, from Scotland there are over fifteen roads that lead to London. There is the M1, M45 and so on, but there are no toll gates. Why does this Government want to be unfair to the people of Zambia? We are already paying too many taxes. I will only agree with the introduction of toll gates for charging foreign vehicles because the owners of these vehicles do not pay VAT, PAYE and other taxes. Ifyakukopakopa filocesha.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Hon. Member, the meaning?

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The official language is English. Try to use English. However, you may translate that.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, that means that when you just copy ideas without analysing them, you will burn your fingers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: This law is very bad and it must be withdrawn. The people of Zambia are paying too much tax. After paying fuel levy, why should you, again, pay at a toll gate when you want to go to Luanshya, for example? Some of us travel to Luanshya every weekend. Why does this Government want to be unfair to us? Some people have bought vehicles under very difficult circumstances. Teachers and civil servants get very low salaries and are already paying fuel levy, but we now want them to pay toll fees.

Madam, I would just like to say to His Honour the Vice-President that he who has ears will hear and withdraw this Bill because it is very bad for the people of Zambia.

I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a few comments on the Bill before the House. The first point is that I do agree that there is a funding gap between what is raised from user fees and what is required for road maintenance. An example is that given by your Committee when it stated that, in the Budget, there is K3.04 trillion allocated for road maintenance, but the money that was collected from user fees is K484 billion. That gives a gap of K2.5 trillion and, I think, with this Bill being passed, we will narrow that gap.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mooya: Now, while on this same point, I would like to find out whether there is a change in policy regarding remittance of user fees as regards toll fees. I think this Bill is saying that toll fees are to be remitted to the Road Development Agency (RDA) when there is another law which states that all road user fees are to be remitted to the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA). Now, the latter is, by law, given the authority of raising and keeping funds, but I have noticed here that once toll fees are collected, they will be remitted to the RDA. So, I would like to have a clarification on whether we are changing the policy.

Madam Speaker, generally, I am saying I support this Bill but, while supporting it, I would like to urge the Government to be very cautious so as not to over burden the road users. I think it will be very interesting, when these toll fees are worked out, to see how much they will be. Otherwise, I think the people of Zambia are already over taxed. There is this theory of public-private partnership (PPP) and so on and so forth which is already there. I think it is new to this country. Besides there are many roads and I think these roads also will come under PPP. Really, let us be very cautious when we work out the toll fees.

Finally, it is mentioned here that the RDA will employ inspectors. I note that, here, there is a provision that it is allowed for an inspector to conduct a search as long as this is carried out by people of the same sex. Now, I was wondering …

Interruptions

Mr Mooya: Yes, same sex. It is stated here in the Bill.

Interruptions

Mr Mooya: I do not know, but the point I am trying to raise …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member will not start responding to hecklers.

Mr Mooya: … is given here on Page 7, “ … provided that the person shall only be searched by a person of the same sex.” These are documents and articles and they are huge. I mean these are big articles and you cannot hide them. Maybe, you can hide them under …

Laughter

Mr Mooya: So, really, to me, I think this is a waste of money. Anybody can search whether, female or male. Let us search.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Mooya: I mean we are talking about documents here. The document is big. Where can you hide it?

Hon. Opposition Member: Nowhere.

Mr Mooya: Nowhere.

Laughter

Mr Mooya: I cannot hide these, no. So, here what I am suggesting is that let us have either female or male. You can imagine employing two people at a toll point, female and male. To me, that is a waste of money. Let there be a male or female. I think we have a problem regarding parameters. I hear now it will be remitted to the RDA which, I think, I am questioning. How about this RFA …

Mr Muntanga: Fuel levy!

Mr Mooya: Yes, fuel levy. I am talking about the fuel levy. There is a problem because that route is too long and it is not transparent. I hope with this toll fee there will be some transparency and we will not take a wrong route. Otherwise, I wholeheartedly support the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me a chance to wind up debate. I wish to thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to this debate. Before I respond to some of the issues, permit me, also, to congratulate Hon. Misapa for his well-deserved victory …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … in the recent by-election. I wish to congratulate him on joining a party which cannot even hold its few Members of Parliament together.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I wish to congratulate him on joining a party that insults its partners, calling them under fives.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, …

Mr Misapa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Point of order on the hon. Minister, continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, if  …

Mr Misapa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised on the hon. Minister who is responding to the concerns.

Hon. PF Members: Aah!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

Hon. Members, it is true that this House should not be used to settle political scores.

Hon. Members: Yah!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Unfortunately, you all, on both sides of this House, enjoy to hammer, as you say, your colleagues on the political front. Therefore, it becomes very difficult unless the presiding officer simply says whoever wants to go political is stopped. However, if you listen, each one of you will draw another political party into your debate. Therefore, if we do that then we must be ready to listen. However, I should state that this must be discouraged. There are rallies out there where people should be able to hit each other politically.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Therefore, the hon. Minister who is responding may be cautious and continue to respond. Otherwise, there is no statement of correction from the hon. Member which I hear. He is also bringing out his own points and he may continue cautiously on the political front.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yah!

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance. My final congratulations are that he has joined a party …

Hon. PF Members: Order!

Debate the Bill.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: … where, today, …

Mr Lubinda: Order!

Dr Musokotwane: … they say this particular person …

Hon. PF Members: Takwaba, that is not the Bill, childish!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us be careful. You should listen to each other very carefully. Hon. Members must remember that on my left, when the hon. Member being congratulated was speaking, he, too, was talking about the other party.

Hon. PF Members: He was reading a speech.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

It is still a speech in the House. So, let us be careful. Do not start politics here. Try to reduce so that we can go into the issues before us in the House.

Hon. Member, you have a Bill to respond to.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Long live the Chair!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, …

Mr Sichilima: Hammer!

Dr Musokotwane: …, there was a statement that I used to hear as a child. When you go and do some work such as, for example, cutting trees, there are others who will say no, I might not be able to cut this tree because my axe is bad and the only reason will be that, actually, they are lazy. Now, I think we have seen an example of this because somebody was an extremely poor Member of Parliament. As a result of that …

Hon. PF Members: Debate the Bill!

Dr Musokotwane: … he ended up tarnishing the image of the MMD.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: So, for us, it is good riddance.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. PF Members walked out.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

I think that we should also listen to the guidance of the Chair. It is true that a maiden speech is supposed to be considered in a very sober manner and we must remember that. The hon. Minister may continue to deal with the Bill.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Long live the Chair! Hammer, Minister.

Dr Musokotwane: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Let me now turn to issues of the Bill and address some of the comments that were made. There was fear expressed that with the tolling of the roads, transportation will be expensive. Let me say that when we consider the expenses involved in transportation, the tolling issues should go ahead because when vehicles are driven on roads whose quality is poor, vehicles turn to wear down very quickly. Now that we are going to be tolling the roads, the quality of the roads will be improving because there will be more money and the cost of transportation will also come down.

There was also an issue raised about alternative routes. Indeed, this may be the case, but what is important for us is to make a commitment that for those who are not able to pay for various reasons, there must be a formula put in place so that they continue to use the roads. I can confirm that in the manner that the tolling is going to be done, this important aspect is going to be considered so that communities, for example, that may just have to use a road for 1 or 2 km because it is within a certain vicinity, that will be taken care of. Zambia is not the first country to put tolls on roads. There are many other countries that have done this before and we are taking into account the lessons from these countries. So, no one should be scared that, perhaps, because you are in a village along the road, you will not be able to use the road due to expenses. That will be taken care of.

Madam Speaker, there was also an issue raised that toll roads are there to avoid congestion. This is, of course, not true. The Tolls Bill has been introduced to ensure that the number of quality roads is increased because there will be more money generated. So, it has nothing to do with congestion and things like that.

Madam Speaker, there was a statement made that Zambians already pay too much tax and, therefore, we should not toll the roads. I wish to state, once again, that Zambia is not the only country that is implementing toll roads. There are many others doing the same. South Africa, which is very near to us, is a very good example of a country that implements toll roads. It is not true to claim that we are already paying too much tax and, therefore, we should not have toll roads. Who says South Africans are not paying taxes? South Africans are paying value added tax, income tax and customs duties like ourselves. So, these claims about taxes are a typical simplification we have heard from certain quarters where, for example, they are saying, in three months, they will build universities in all the towns in the country and remove all the shanty compounds and build new ones. So, this is Government made simple and we should reject that because it does not exist anywhere.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Finally, on the issue of tolls for the other countries, let me say that Zambia, indeed, has a lot of foreign trucks that pass through in transit. Some of the countries charge much higher than us. In fact, I consulted the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport who said that measures are underway to make sure that there is parity so that what Zambian truckers pay, if they have a charge elsewhere, the same truckers or trucks coming from those countries where they overcharge, will face the same tariff here in the spirit of ...

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Dr Musokotwane:  I cannot say the word because I am thirsty. So, that is on trucks. The final point is that this is really about making life convenient for all of us. When we are driving on good roads, we will be able to reach our destinations faster. That saves money. When you have good roads, our tyres are going to last longer. That saves us money. When you have good roads, we will be able to carry our goods to their destinations if we are traders. That saves money. So, this is a good Bill.

Madam Speaker, with these remarks, I wish to thank the rest of the hon. Members who made very useful comments.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 24th March, 2011.

THE LIQUOR LICENSING BILL, 2011

The Minister of Livestock and Fisheries Development (Mr Machila) (on behalf of Dr Chituwo) (Minister of Local Government and Housing): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the objects of this Bill are to:

(i) regulate the sale and supply of intoxicating liquors;

(ii) repeal and replace the Liquor Licensing Act, 1959; and

(iii) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, my ministry supports the repeal and replacement of the Liquor Licensing Act, Chapter 167 of the Laws of Zambia as it is an archaic piece of law which has not been reviewed to suit the current business environment. The House may wish to know that the current Liquor Licensing Act was drafted with provisions steeped in colonial conditions which mainly aimed at controlling the Africans dealing in or consuming alcohol. These provisions are no longer necessary as a regulatory tool in the sale and supply of intoxicating liquors. This Bill also seeks to reduce the number of licences in the liquor trading business and eliminate duplication in the assurance of licenses by the local authorities. Furthermore, the Bill will help to improve the inspection measures through the regulations to be issued through a statutory instrument by my ministry.

Madam Speaker, the provisions of the Bill are, indeed, in conformity with the decentralisation process as it seeks, among other issues, to devolve the licensing powers to the local authorities in terms of grant of approvals of liquor licences as opposed to the current scenario where there is centralisation to the Provincial Liquor Licensing Board and not to the districts. I am confident that the provisions of the Bill have addressed the problem of the split in the licensing system between the provinces and local authorities which makes the process long and cumbersome for no specific regulatory process.

Mr Speaker, I am of the view that the Liquor Licensing Act be repealed and replaced with a better regulatory Act that will provide for a single licensing system. This is what this Bill has addressed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, the Liquor Licensing Bill, 2011 was referred to your Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour for detailed consideration. I wish to believe that any hon. Member of this House has had the time to read the report of the Bill.

Madam Speaker, when considering submissions from witnesses, your Committee was informed that the Liquor Licensing Act, Cap 167 of the Laws of Zambia was an archaic piece of legislation which had not been reviewed to suit the current business environment. In addition, it was crafted during the colonial era in a way that was aimed at controlling Africans dealing in or consuming alcohol. The Bill, therefore, will mordernise the legal framework and devolve the licensing powers to local authorities in line with the decentralisation programme.

Madam Speaker, going by the submissions from stakeholders,  indications are that the Bill will be widely accepted. However, there were also concerns raised. One of the concerns was on the enforcement of the Act considering the poor state of local authorities in terms of human and financial resources.

Your Committee has, therefore, recommended that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing should put measures in place that will ensure that no local authority for lack of capacity will be unable to enforce the provisions of the Act.

The sale and supply of intoxicating liquor is one area that needs close monitoring because of the potential effects on society. The ministry should to this effect particularly in the immediate period when the Act takes effect, take a leading role in engaging other stake holders such as the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Ministry of Health to join efforts in enforcing the law on the liquor business.

The other concern is that a number of matters including the operation or permitted hours of liquor outlets which are necessary for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of this Act will be contained in a statutory instrument. Experience has shown that ministries have a tendency of delaying the issuance of regulations through Statutory Instruments (SI).

To avoid disruptions in enforcement, it is imperative that the regulations in SIs are issued at the same time that the Act takes effect. The Minister should furnish this House with the latest position on the regulations.

Madam Speaker, in order to enhance the applicability of the Act, stakeholders have proposed a number of amendment and these include:

(i) health facilities should be included, in addition to schools and places of  
worship, in the requirements in Clause 4, that no licenses premises such 
as bars should be located within a radius of 300 meters from schools, places 
of worship and health facilities;

(ii) a penalty should be included in Clause 32 for any one who commits an 
offence of consuming liquor in a public place; and

(iii) a provision should be introduced in Clause 34 imposing restrictions on the packaging of intoxicating liquor to avoid abuse as is the case for the infamous ‘Tujilijili’ which is packaged in small sachets easily carried by youth in pockets and school bags.

Madam Speaker, your Committee has recommended further amendments to assist enforcement of the Act.  These include among others:

(i) in the definition of “Authorised Officer” in Clause 2, which refers to the 
               position of “Administrative Officer”  should be replaced by “Principal    Officer” which is defined within the same clause;

 (ii) the sale and consumption of intoxicating liquor during traditional  ceremonies or events and in any other traditional setting should be included in 
                                           Clause 3 which specifies where the act will not be applicable;

 (iii) in order to make the provision in Clause 4 more affirmative, it is  proposed that if the condition that licensed premises should not be located  within a radius of 300 meters from a school or place of worship is not    fulfilled, a license should not be granted;

(iv) to make the process of renewal of licenses less demanding, the requirement for submission of the plan of the premises to which the license being reviewed relates, should be waived. The plans are lodged at the time of first applying for a license.

Madam Speaker, save for the above highlighted concerns and amendments, your Committee supports the Bill and urges this House to pass it.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Committee, I wish to thank you and the clerk for the support and services you provided to it when considering the Bill. I further wish to thank all stakeholders that provided information to your committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I am most obliged to the House for the overwhelming support.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 22nd March, 2011.

THE TRADITIONAL BEER (REPEAL) BILL, 2011

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is in support of the Bill on the repeal of the Traditional Beer Act of 1930 as it is a very old piece of legislation and was last amended in 1964.

Madam Speaker, the object of this Bill is to repeal the Traditional Beer Act of 1930 as it has become necessarily expedient to move with the changing business environment. The Traditional Beer Act was meant to regulate locally brewed beer by the Africans commonly known as local beer, Lusaka beer, bwalwa, moba, bukoko, chibuku and honey beer.

Madam Speaker, it is evident that from the titles and definition of the traditional beer, which basically means the drink from brewed grain or other vegetable matter, the Act was meant to regulate the supply and sale of traditional beer ruing the colonial era. The house may wish to know that the Act in the current form is so oppressive as it does not relate directly to the regulatory aspects of the law which are now redundant and practically non-existent in the modern Zambia.

Madam, it is, therefore, important that the Traditional Beer Act is repealed and all licenses for opaque beer should be issued under a new Act, which clearly provides for a properly streamlined liquor licensing regulatory system covering both opaque, clear beer and other alcoholic drinks.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, your Committee considered the Traditional Beer (Repeal) Bill, 2011, whose objective is to repeal the Traditional Beer Act, Chapter 168 of 1930 of the Laws of Zambia.

Madam, your Committee was informed that the repeal of this law will facilitate the enactment of a comprehensive legislation to regulate the sell and supply of intoxicating liquor, including traditional beer.

Madam Speaker, your Committee is in support of the Bill. It is of the view that this Bill to repeal this Act is long overdue since it was enacted to regulate the production and sell of the traditional beer during the colonial era.

Your Committee is confident that the Liquor Licensing Bill which is before the House will provide a streamlined liquor licensing regulatory system covering opaque and clear beer as well as other alcoholic drinks.

While your Committee appreciates that the law is outdated and needs to be repealed, it is concerned that it has taken long for the Government to present the Bill to repeal it. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that in future, the Government should ensure that outdated laws are brought to Parliament for repeal in good time so as to address current developments.

Madam Speaker, as the law is being repealed, your Committee recommends that transitional arrangements be put in place so that holders of licenses, if any, under this law are not inconvenienced during the course of the year.

Madam, allow me to conclude by paying tribute to all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee and tendered both oral and written submissions. I also wish to thank you, for affording your Committee an opportunity to consider the Bill

Lastly, but not the least, may I thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the assistance rendered to your Committee during its deliberations.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, in supporting the Bill, I agree with the Committee’s concerns that, in transition, certain measures must be put in place.

Madam, I know that the Liquor Licensing Bill has already been debated. My concern is on the Traditional Beer (Repeal) Bill. It was so friendly to the villagers. They used to pay a small amount of traditional beer tax in areas, which were near the municipal councils. They were notified by the Village Kapaso. However, the people in villages were not harassed because this is the money, which was used to educate a number of us in this House. The headmen used to have free beer, but now they may have to be charged.

Now, we are repealing the old Act so that the traditional beer brewers operate with liquor licences. This will subject the villagers who brew katata, katubi and seven days to difficult conditions. We want to charge villagers in the same way bar owners in town are charged.

Madam Speaker, as we repeal the Act, I want to strongly state that traditional beer like katubi can be used for traditional ceremonies like matebeto. However, you want the villagers who are the brewers of seven days and gankata to get licences for that. How do you expect villagers from Sipatunyana to go to the council to get a licence? Why should the villagers pay heavy licences fees when they comfortably drink Lozi beer called sipesu, in Senanga?

Madam, my advice to this House is that we should let our people enjoy some things for free. Why should we be charging the villagers who have educated us?

Madam Speaker, I am of the view that katata, katubi, seven days, gankata, lutuku …

Hon. Opposition Member: Kachasu!

Mr Muntanga: You do not mention kachasu, but sipesu or sikokiana.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Madam, we should not be harsher than the colonialists though they recognised that villagers were suffering. Only those who had rich parents did not have to go to school using the money from traditional beer. Those of us from poor families, were educated from proceeds from the sale  of gankata, and that, we have to write home about.

Madam Speaker, I would like to urge His Honour the Vice-President, to make sure that he does not forget to take care of the people. When you go to your constituency in Serenje …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! That is a wrong style of debating.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Do not address His Honour the Vice-President. Address the chair. Do not use the word ‘you’.

Mr Muntanga: In your constituency …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! In whose constituency

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: In his constituency.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order! You have to be indirect and say ‘his’ constituency and not ‘your’ constituency. Definitely the Chair has no constituency.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to advise His Honour the Vice- President to protect the people who brew katata and katubi in Muchinga. Even in Kaputa in Northern Province, there is katubi.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: So, we do not want the villagers to have problems.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy  Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Laughter

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to debate the Bill in the manner he is doing without referring to a particular clause which refers to Muchinga Constituency?

I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Member debating has heard the point of order and will consider that as he continues his debate.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I think that we all recognise the fact that our people in villages and areas like Kalomo and Muchinga, brew beer. As we effect the new regulation, we should remember that our people need protection.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Machila: Madam Speaker, we have noted the concerns of the hon. Member for Kalomo Central and we wish to thank the House for its overwhelming support.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 22nd March, 2011.

________

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES inthe Chair]

THE PRESIDENTIAL (Emoluments) (Amendment) BILL, 2011

Clauses 1, 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

THE EDUCATION BILL, 2011

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretations)

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that Clause 2, on page 9, in line 7 by the insertion, immediately after the word “learner” of a comma and the words “who are not in the formal education system” and a comma.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32,…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Clauses 33, 34, 35, 36 and 37 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 38 – (Public Private Partnerships)

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 38, on page 9:

(a)         in line 7 by the insertion of the figure “(1)” between the number “38” and 
              the word “The”; and

(b)         after line 28 by the insertion of the following new subsection:

“(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to public educational institutions existing before the commencement of this Act.”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 38, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 39, 40, and 41 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 42 – (Closure of public educational institution)

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 42, on page 28, in line 35 by the deletion, immediately after the word “close”, of the word “indefinitely” and the substitution therefor of the words “for a specified period”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 42, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133 and 134 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

__________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Presidential (Emoluments) (Amendment) Bill, 2011

Third Reading on Friday, 18th March, 2011.

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Education Bill, 2011

Report Stage on Friday, 18th March, 2011.

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

The Zambia Qualifications Authority Bill, 2011.

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

____________

The House adjourned at 1853 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 18th March, 2011