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Debates- Tuesday, 7th June, 2011
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 7th June, 2011
The House met at 1430 hours
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
__________
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
ZAMBIA’S ARTS INDUSTRY
448. Mr Lubinda (Kabwata) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services what the total number of Zambians employed in the following categories of the arts industry was as of 31st December, 2010:
(a) music;
(b) theatre;
(c) visual; and
(d) handicrafts.
The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Malwa): Madam Speaker, the arts industry in Zambia consists of two categories, namely amateur and professional arts. At present, the industry is mainly under the amateur category drawing the majority of its members from schools, tertiary institutions and the community. The total number of Zambians employed in the arts industry as at 31st December, 2010 was as follows:
Music
678 musicians had recorded music in Zambia. However, there are other musicians who did not produce and register their music. The total number of individuals involved in music is approximately 1,000 nation-wide.
Theater
Clubs Number of Members
Lusaka Theatre Club 120
Kitwe Little Theatre 80
Chingola Arts Theatre 80
Mufulira Arts Theatre 70
Rados Theatre (Luanshya) 50
NAPSA Club (Lusaka) 40
Green Buffaloes (Lusaka) 25
ZANASE Club (Lusaka) 20
SWAZE Theatre (Lusaka) 20
MOFNP Theatre Group (Lusaka) 20
Zaninge Theatre (Govt Printers) (Lusaka) 20
African Directions (Lusaka) 30
Tagwamo Club (Lusaka) 5
Premium Arts (Lusaka) 10
National Theatre Arts
Associations of Zambia (NATAAZ) 8,000 (students in various
school and drama groups)
Total 8,590
Madam Speaker, kindly note, that some of the members of theatre clubs and associations are not employed in the arts industry, but are merely patrons of the arts.
Visual Arts
There were 419 visual artists, including art teachers and those who work in other institutions of learning such as the Evelyn Hone College.
Handicrafts
Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services estimates that there are over 5,000 craftsmen and craftswomen employed in the arts industry. However, this figure does not include those engaged in the trade with crafts shops and other outlets that have access to producers of crafts.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister kindly reconcile the figures that he has read out with the figures that are provided for in the Zambia National Cultural Policy that was adopted by this Government. In so doing, could he also indicate why the provisions of the policy have, to date, not been implemented.
Mr Malwa: Madam Speaker, as the ministry mandated to ensure that arts in this country are promoted, these are the figures that we have.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the arts industry in Zambia is at amateur level. I would like to find out what the Government is doing to transform it from amateur to professional level so that we can have a good number of professionals rather than amateurs.
Mr Malwa: Madam Speaker, this is why you have noticed that in our answer, we have referred to amateurs as well as professionals. Amateurs are actually in the 8,000 students in various schools of drama and this is why we are working with the Ministry of Education to ensure that drama and music are promoted in schools.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, in the hon. Deputy Minister’s list of members of theatre clubs, I did not hear anything about Lowenthal Theatre or any other theatre group from Ndola. Is he telling me that there is no theatre happening in that city?
The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Madam Speaker, you cannot fault this Government in any area, be it economically, socially or politically.
Interruptions
Mr Kaingu: This Government of His Excellency, President Rupiah Bwezani Banda, is excelling.
Mr D. Mwila: Kuya bebele!
Laughter
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, we stated clearly that these are the latest figures of people employed in the fields of performing arts, creative arts and theatre. I further wish to inform the hon. Member that we have many theatre groups which have not been captured. There are some in …
Interjection
Mr Kaingu: This shows that this Government is creating a lot of employment.
Interruptions
Mr Kaingu: We have reached a stage where some of the employment created cannot be captured.
Interruptions
Mr Kaingu: Repeatedly, we have told you that this Government is going to create employment in all areas of human endeavour.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Interruptions
Mr Malwa: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister must state whether his figures include the entire industry or, at least, state that only some theatres have been captured, rather than give an answer that seems to be comprehensive and yet it does not include everything. I think it is important that you bring out a comprehensive answer.
Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, from that self-praising answer given by the hon. Minister, may I find out whether all the provisions of the cultural policy have been implemented. If not, why not?
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, we are working on the policy. As you heard from our answer, some of the theatres have been left out. We have not captured them because we have not yet received the information from our officers who are still out there in the field.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Lubinda: On a point of order.
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister is explaining unless it is …
Mr Lubinda: The point of order is procedural, Madam!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Normally, we do not allow points of order when an hon. Minister is explaining something. The Chair has not seen a procedural breach. I think the hon. Minister was trying to restate what the answer is regarding whether they captured theatres in the entire nation or not.
WOMEN EMPOPWERMENT FUND
449. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:
(a) how much money was released for the Women Empowerment Fund in 2010 countrywide;
(b) which districts or constituencies benefited from the fund; and
(c) whether the Government intends to change the mode of administering the fund.
Mr Malwa: Madam Speaker, in the year 2010, a total sum of K4, 844, 633, 918 was released under the Women Empowerment Fund.
A total number of 613 women’s clubs and associations in all the seventy-two districts benefited from the Women Empowerment Fund in 2010. Reference should be made to the attached detailed list of women clubs and associations which we have.
Madam Speaker, the mechanisms being applied in the administration of the Women Empowerment Fund are subject to review and change by the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services.
The House may wish to know that the ministry is working on reviewing the guidelines through which these funds are accessed by eligible beneficiaries. The House will be informed accordingly once the changes have been effected.
Madam Speaker, before I sit down, I have a list of 613 beneficiaries which I will lay on the Table. The document is from page one to twenty-four. Hon. Members of this august House should find time to go through this list and ensure that they know which clubs and associations benefited from the fund.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Malwa laid the paper on the Table.
Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, may I find out why Chipili Constituency has not benefited from the Women Empowerment Fund from 2006 to 2010?
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member needs to read the document in order to ascertain that fact. The document was not available until now, unless the hon. Minister tells us that the document has been circulated.
Mr Malwa: Madam Speaker, the list of beneficiaries has not yet been circulated to the hon. Members of this august House. However, if the hon. Member wants to know about the beneficiaries of the Women Empowerment Fund in his constituency, he should find time, even at tea-break, to check the list for beneficiaries in his constituency. If associations from his constituency are not on the list, he is free to come to our ministry and we will show him whether there are any women clubs or associations which submitted their applications to our ministry. He should also be aware that the empowerment of women is an on-going exercise. If his constituency has been omitted, we will consider it in the near future.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services confirm to this House and the nation that his ministry has been giving scotch carts, ploughs and other farming equipment to constituencies that belong to the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) without informing this House?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, as we have always said, we will do our level best to empower our people. The MMD Government through the hardworking President, His Excellency Rupiah Bwezani Banda, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Mr Kaingu: … the hon. Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament on this side of the House …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: … is doing its level best to empower all Zambians. After all, our President is a president for all Zambians.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: Even ministers are there for all Zambians.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: Therefore, there is no way we can give scotch carts, ploughs and hammer mills to MMD members alone, because we want votes from all Zambians.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: We are aware that all Zambians are going to vote for us.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: That is what we call conjecture in English.
Laughter
Mr Kaingu: When you bring material before us which is not backed by evidence, it means that you are speculating. For lack of a better term, it means that you are not telling the truth. This ministry was created by this good Government to empower the people of Zambia, particularly the women who are very happy with our work.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: I saw the women in His Honour the Vice President’s constituency looking very happy. I saw Hon. Sinyangwe in Matero with women who were also looking very happy.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: Even in Mandevu, the women of Zambia are very happy. I saw them when His Excellency the President was launching the installation of the geysers. The women looked very happy and eager to cast their votes for our President and ourselves.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, poverty is a key issue in this country and it affects women more. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how equitably the empowerment fund has been distributed, district by district.
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, the distribution of the fund has been very equitable. However, I cannot release the information until that document we have just laid on the Table is discussed. We have stated clearly that we cater for everyone when distributing resources, including those from new districts because we now have seventy-two districts. I wish to inform you that when it comes to empowerment interventions, this Government is the best in the region.
Interruptions
Mr Kaingu: It is the only Government that gives money to the people. Other Governments want money from the citizens through taxes. I am aware that most Governments in the region have come here to learn from our programmes such as the cash transfer and food security packs. Unfortunately, those we are working so hard for do not seem to appreciate what we do.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, from the figures given, how many clubs are viable and how many are non-functional as a result of lack of funds?
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I would like to mention that this programme is driven by hon. Members themselves. If you see that your constituency is not being funded, it means you are inactive. I have stood here to talk about youth programmes and I have also asked the hon. Members to come to the ministry to engage us. Some hon. Members have taken heed and visited my office but others, like the hon. Member for Chipili, have not.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Laughter{mospagebreak}
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, to understand further the performance of the ministry, I would like to find out what percentage of the 150 constituencies have accessed the fund.
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Member to know that women empowerment is not the only programme that we have used to alleviate poverty in rural areas. We have the social cash transfer, food security packs, self help schemes and many other programmes, not only in my ministry, but also through the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development and the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development. We also have a programme controlled by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing which is the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which some hon. Members want to claim as theirs.
Interruptions
Mr Kaingu: Every time we want to talk about the CDF, we see some hon. Members like Hon. Mwiimbu blowing hot air.
Interruptions
Mr Kaingu: He has used that term himself.
Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, is that hon. Minister who is outgoing and will never see the light of this House again in order to say that I am blowing hot air when, in fact, it is he who needs hot air?
Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will continue and take that comment into consideration.
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, these are terminologies we have found here and have learnt them from our seniors like Hon. Mwiimbu.
Laughter
Mr Kaingu: In one of his debates, I heard him say that he was blowing hot air where he was although I did not know what he meant because hot air could mean many different things.
Laughter
Ms Cifire: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, we are not in a position to give the percentage which has been asked for by the hon. Member at the moment. However, if the hon. Member is willing, he can come up with an appropriate question so that we do the calculations and give him the percentage that he wants to know about.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Beene (Itezhi Tezhi): Madam Speaker, some of the districts and provincial administration officers in the Southern Province, the Permanent Secretary and the District Commissioner in Itezhi-tezhi, have been selectively giving money and bicycles from the recent census exercise to MMD members instead of following the method which the hon. Minister is talking about. Is the hon. Minister ready to go and verify these facts so that next time these things are given to Zambians irrespective of their political affiliations?
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, there are times when I fail to understand whether people understand what goes on in these ministries. When you talk about census, you are talking about the Central Statistical Office (CSO) …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Minister, do not be distracted by heckling. Speak to the question through the Chair.
Mr Kaingu: We are also referring to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. An hon. Member of Parliament who is too junior to me sending me to go and investigate what is happening in Itezhi-tezhi is a clear indication of how much we are devaluing our hon. Ministers.
Laughter
Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I want to emphasise that our aim as Government is to reach the entire 13 million plus people in this country, including children and hon. Members in here, in terms of empowerment. That is why hon. Members are given salaries to take home. We want to empower everybody. It is just that those on your left do not understand that there are certain things which they can do for themselves and those which can be done by the community and Government for them. It is not everything that the Government must do for them. I wonder why they went to school if it was not for the purpose of understanding such things.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
ZAMBEZI RIVER AUTHORITY
450. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:
(a) how much money Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Limited contributed to the Zambezi River Authority annually; and
(b) how the money was utilised.
The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Imasiku): Madam Speaker, the following are the annual payments made to the Zambezi River Authority over the past five year period:
Year Payment
2006 K18,307,000,000
2007 K17,984,000,000
2008 K15,773,000,000
2009 K18,655,000,000
2010 K21,163,000,000
Madam Speaker, the money received from ZESCO is utilised for:
(a) monitoring, maintenance and repairs of the Kariba Dam;
(b) collecting and processing of hydrological and environmental data regarding the Zambezi River for dam safety operations;
(c) capital expenditure in accordance with the budget approved by the council of hon. Ministers; and
(d) institutional governance (board and inter-governmental council meetings, reporting and compliance).
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Ntundu: Madam Speaker, with all these billions of Kwacha which ZESCO remits to the Zambezi River Authority, why does this Government find it fit not to instruct the institution to give part of this money to councils like Gwembe District Council, which is the owner of this river?
Hon. UPND Members: Yes!
Mr Muntanga: And the dam.
Mr Ntundu: This river was given to the people by God.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Madam Speaker, first of all, the Zambezi River Authority is a corporate body with very specific objectives on how to spend the money which it receives. I am sure one of its objectives is certainly not to give money to the Gwembe District Council, but to use the money for its operations as has been stated by the hon. Deputy Minister.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, kindly allow me to register my disapproval of the answer the hon. Minister has given. I have a question …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
Laughter
Mr Muyanda: May I know why …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: It is neither your duty nor right to disapprove the answers given on the Floor of this House. You are just supposed to ask a follow-up question. So, withdraw that disapproval.
Mr Muyanda: I have withdrawn that disapproval. May I now proceed to ask a question on a matter which affects the people of the valley …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muyanda: … who were displaced by the formation of the Zambezi River Authority. Why …
Interruptions
Mr Muyanda: Hey, keep quiet, junior hon. Member of Parliament.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Laughter
Mr Muyanda: You came yesterday.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, in the House!
Let me advise hon. Members that we are still in the House and considering very serious business. The Chair expects hon. Members from both sides of the House to display seriousness in the manner in which questions are asked and answered so that we can carry on with our duty. Therefore, hon. Members will desist from responding to hecklers. It is the responsibility of the Chair to control the proceedings in this House. An hon. Member telling another one to keep quiet is not allowed in this House. The hon. Member will again withdraw that part and continue to ask his question regarding his serious concern about the valley.
Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, I am much obliged. I have withdrawn what I said. May I now please proceed with my question while bearing in mind your guidance?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Proceed.
Mr Muyanda: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is the burden of any corporate body in this country to have a social responsibility towards the people in the area it operates in. Why has the Zambezi River Authority …
Madam Speaker: Order! Order! The Chair is here and listening. Hon. Members will be patient for the Chair’s guidance, otherwise the hon. Member will just keep talking. Hon. Members, you are not supposed to be debating when asking a question. We allow you to clarify your question, but not to debate the issue at hand. So, the hon. Member will go straight to asking his question to the hon. Minister.
Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, as a corporate body, may I know why the Zambezi River Authority, which is also established in Zimbabwe, where it is doing very well in terms of social responsibility by giving the people of the valley some houses and loans, has failed in Zambia to do a quid pro quo gesture for the displaced people of the valley. All the directors are enjoying …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order! You have asked your question.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, the Zambezi River Authority carries out its corporate social responsibilities both in Zambia and Zimbabwe without discrimination. It has undertaken several projects to uplift the welfare of the people in the valley, among which is the construction of schools, the provision of …
Hon. Opposition Members: Where?
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
Mr Konga: … water points and medical facilities.
Mr Muyanda: Question!
Mr Konga: If the hon. Member wants further clarification, he can come to our offices so that we can give him more information. However, let me categorically state that there is no discrimination by the authority in the provision of corporate social responsibility either in Zimbabwe or Zambia. The hon. Member should be aware of all this unless he is not well informed.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
KWACHA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY SHCOOLS
451. Mr L. J. Mulenga asked the Minister of Education:
(a) how many basic and high schools were in Kwacha Parliamentary Constituency as of April, 2011; and
(b) what the teacher/pupil ratio was for the schools above from 2006 to 2010, year by year.
The Minister of Education (Dr Kawimbe): Madam Speaker, there are nine basic schools and one high school in Kwacha Parliamentary Constituency, namely;
(i) Bulangililo Basic School;
(ii) Ipusukilo Basic School;
(iii) Kitwe Basic School;
(iv) Kwacha Basic School;
(v) Lulamba Basic School;
(vi) Matete Basic School;
(vii) Mutende Basic School;
(viii) Riverain Basic School;
(ix) Valley View Basic School; and
(x) Mitanto High School.
Mr Speaker, the pupil/teacher ratio for the above schools is as follows:-
1. Basic Schools
Name 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
Bulangililo 90.1 78.1 53.1 39.1 38.1
Ipusukilo 47.1 47.1 47.1 49.1 46.1
Kitwe 45.1 44.1 47.1 30.1 36.1
Kwacha 55.1 54.1 54.1 45.1 35.1
Lulamba 94.1 67.1 54.1 55.1 36.1
Matete 32.1 34.1 26.1 41.1 39.1
Mutende 40.1 43.1 52.1 51.1 51.1
Riverain 34.1 27.1 24.1 24.1 22.1
Valley View 37.1 36.1 38.1 36.1 33.1
2. High School
Mitanto 44.1 45.1 40.1 30.1 29.1
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr L. J. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, taking into account the teacher/pupil ratio as given in the answer to the principal question, how does the hon. Minister compare the quality of education today to that which existed in the 70s?
Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, clearly, from the statistics that we have given, there has been tremendous improvement between 2006 and 2010 in terms of the teacher/pupil ratio. For instance, at Bulangililo Basic School, we had one teacher looking after ninety pupils in 2006, and in 2010 that ratio dropped to thirty-eight to one. At Lulamba Basic School, we had ninety-four pupils to one teacher in 2006, and in 2010 that ratio dropped to thirty-six to one.
Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to provide the following background information. Between 2006 and 2011, the Ministry of Education recruited a total of 33,800 teachers. This year, 5,000 new teachers will be recruited. In fact, on Thursday this week, a list of all the names of our new teachers will be published in the newspapers. In addition to that, we will recruit 2,250 teachers to replace the teachers who have retired, resigned and those who have passed on. I would like to point out the fact that we still have a shortfall from meeting our target by about 300 teachers. Therefore, let me take this opportunity to inform this august House and the nation at large, that we are still accepting applications from those who would like to join the teaching profession particularly, degree holders in science and mathematics.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Education has indicated to this House that Kwacha has nine basic schools and one high school. This is contrary to our policy which states that five basic schools are supposed to be aligned with one high school. May the hon. Deputy Minister explain why the hon. Minister has been going around the country making a lot of documentaries on Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) television through which he has been stating that the country is doing well in the education sector when more still needs to be done.
Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, this particular follow-up question reminds me of a conversation I had with one of our royal highnesses from the North/Western Province, who indicated that the people along the line of rail have been in a privileged position in as far as accessing education and a lot of other facilities is concerned. This Government is now working towards making high schools and education generally available in our rural areas. As this royal highness put it, only worrying about the areas along the line of rail would be like a person putting on a very nice suit without shoes.
Laughter
Dr Kawimbe: We have to focus on the development of the entire country and not only parts it.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
MULAKUPIKWA UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
452. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Education:
(a) when construction of Mulakupikwa University College of Science and Technology in Chinsali District would be completed;
(b) what the projected total cost of constructing the college was;
(c) which contractor has been engaged to undertake the construction works; and
(d) how many local people have been employed by the contractor.
Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, the initial completion date for phase II of Mulakupikwa University College of Science and Technology in Chinsali District is expected by 9th September, 2011. The projected cost for phase II is K107, 562, 504,242.00.
Mr Speaker, Flame Promotions and Procurement has been engaged to undertake the construction works and 253 local people have been employed by the contractor.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, would the hon. Minister confirm that the contractor on site, right now, is a Zimbabwean. Can he also confirm whether this contractor is related to His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Banda and, if so, why did the Government choose to contract the highest bidder in preference to the lower bidders that we had?
Interruptions
Dr Kawimbe: Madam Speaker, there was a tender procedure and, I think, it is important to take this opportunity to bring all our country men and women up-to-date with the fact that we are a part of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and Common Market for East and Southern Africa (COMESA). Therefore, there is nothing that prevents Zambian-owned companies from bidding for business in Zimbabwe, Malawi, South Africa or anywhere in the SADC region. Clearly, as a ministry, our interest and that of the people of Chinsali is to have the college built by the most capable company.
Madam Speaker, if there are specific complaints about the performance of this contractor, the hon. Member will do this House and the people of Zambia a great service to bring these deficiencies to the attention of the appropriate authorities.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
ROAD TARRING
453. Mr Simama (Kalulushi) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:
(a) when the following roads would be tarred;
(ii) Kamakonde/Kasempa via Lufwanyama; and
(iii) Kalulushi/Sabina; and
(b) when the tarring of the Kitwe/Kalulushi Road would be completed.
The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mangani): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply understands the importance of upgrading the Kamakonde/Kasempa via Lufwanyama Road from gravel state to bituminous (tarmac) standard as this reduces vehicle operating cost and travel time. The ministry, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is in the process of procuring a contractor to upgrade a section of roads from Kalulushi, at Kamakonde to Lufwanyama, which is 60 km, from gravel to tarmac with funding from the Development Bank of Southern Africa (DBSA) and the evaluation of bids is on-going. However, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the RDA, will continue with the upgrading of the remaining section of the road from Lufwanyama to Kasempa when resources become available.
Madam Speaker, the ministry, through the RDA, has provided an amount of K20 billion in the 2011 Annual Work Plan for the periodic maintenance of the Kalulushi/Sabina/Mufulira Road, which is a stretch of 39 km.
The K20 billion is specifically earmarked for the sections of road from Kalulushi to Sabina/T3 Junction, which is 14 km, and Kasunswa to Mufulira, which is 9 km. Bids for the two sections are still under evaluation.
Further, Mopani Copper Mine Limited has provided funding to rehabilitate the sections from Sabina/T3 Junction to Kasunswa, which is a stretch of 16-km, and works are expected to start soon while the works on the Chibuluma Road have been completed.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I think the House should pay attention to the answer being given.
Mr Mangani: However, the RDA is engaging with Mopani Copper Mine to request that the contractor starts works, at the same time, on all the three roads, which are the Chibuluma, Central Street and Sabina/Kasunswa roads.
The periodic maintenance of Kitwe/Kalulushi Road, which is a stretch of 3.5 km, is expected to be completed in December, 2011. The contract for constructing the 3.5km- stretch on Kitwe, Kalulushi and other roads was signed in May, 2011 with a Chinese contractor, China Civil Engineering Corporation Company (CCECC).
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to seek clarification from the hon. Minister on the answer that was given as regards when the Kalulushi/Sabina Road will be worked on because the road he is mentioning is not in the question. The Sabina/Kasunswa Road is different from the Kalulushi/Sabina Road. May I, therefore, find out when this road is going to be worked on instead of bringing in Mopani Copper Mine into the picture when it is not in Kalulushi.
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, the issue of Mopani Copper Mine is coming in because it has provided US$10 million to be used on most of the works on roads in the Copperbelt. This road is part of the roads that we are negotiating over with the RDA as well as Mopani Copper Mine.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, I have an interest in the Kalulushi/Sabina Road as I am an investor in that area. Would the hon. Minister confirm to this House that this road does not only require periodic maintenance, but also that its state requires it to be redone almost from scratch. When is his ministry going to do that?
Mr Mangani: Madam Speaker, I have indicated that we have made a provision of K20 billion to be spent on this 23 km-road. The contract is under evaluation and, within the next one or two months, we will be able to start the works on this road. We have engaged Mopani Copper Mine to finish the works of the16 km-section.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
NATIONAL ELECTRICITY CONSUMPTION
454. Mr Mukanga asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:
(a) what the total electricity consumption in Zambia was as of the following dates:
(i) 31st December, 2006; and
(ii) 31st December, 2010; and
(b) of the total national consumption, how much was utilised by the following companies in the same period;
(i) Konkola Copper Mines Plc;
(ii) Luanshya Copper Mines plc;
(iii) Mopani Copper Mines Plc;
(iv) NFC-Chambishi Mines plc;
(v) NFC Africa Mining plc;
(vi) Lumwana Mine; and
(vii) Kansanshi Mine.
Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, as at 31st December, 2006 and 31st December, 2010, the total electricity consumption was as follows:
Year Consumption
(MWh)
31st December, 2006 8,833,231
31st December, 2010 10,179,961
Madam Speaker, with regard to the national electricity consumption, the following is what companies consumed:
Mine 2006 Consumption 2010 Consumption
(MWh) (MWh)
Konkola Copper Mines Plc 1,269,917 1,634,136
Luanshya Copper Mines Plc 141,501 13,677
Mopani Copper Mines Plc 1,456,085 1,389,038
NFC- (Chambishi Metal Plc) 111,477 13,160
Chambishi (Chambishi Metals COSAK) 174,673 1,220
Mines Plc
NFC Africa Mining Plc 343,937 25,270
Lumwana Mine Nil 282,106
Kansanshi Mine 281,265 662,172
Madam Speaker, it should be noted that the supply of electricity to Lumwana Mine Plc only commenced in 2009, hence the indication of nil electricity consumption in 2006.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I am a bit confused by the figures that have been provided to this House. Looking at the figures that have been given, I am able to conclude that these mining houses were the major consumers or stakeholders of the energy that was produced. What was their direct contribution in revamping the energy sector in the country apart from the taxes they were paying?
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, as the hon. Member for Kantanshi will definitely appreciate, these mining houses’ responsibility is to mine the ore and make copper out of it, which they export, and one of the inputs in that process is copper. It is, therefore, not their responsibility to contribute to the development of the energy sector because they are just a user as they buy the power.
I thank you, Madam.
Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, considering that the very large-scale consumption of energy by these mines was so great that it was even causing load shedding, could the hon. Minister tell us, on average, how much per megawatt was paid in 2006 by the mining companies and how it compares to 2010? I am sure he anticipated this question.
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, indeed, I cannot exactly state what the rate was in 2006. I can, however, confirm that the rate has gone up. Even now as we speak, I think the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC), which supply power to the mines, have only recently signed an agreement to facilitate an increase in the tariffs. So, definitely, the tariff between 2006 and 2010 did go up.
I thank you, Madam.
PRE-PAID METERS’ INSTALLATION
456. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:
(a) how much money ZESCO Limited had spent on the installation of pre-paid electricity meters countrywide as of 31st December, 2010; and
(b) whether the installation of the pre-paid meters had increased the revenue collections by the company and, if so, by what percentage points.
Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, as at 31st December, 2010, a total of K83, 846,941,097.52 had been spent on the exercise and the expenditure covered the following aspects: materials, labour, transport and other overheads.
Madam Speaker, the pre-paid metering project commenced in April, 2006 and involved the replacement of credit metres with pre-paid meters. So far, the installation process has been successful in the towns which we initially picked. The coverage as at now is as follows:
Division Customer Base Pre-paid Meter Percentage (%)
Consumers Coverage
Copperbelt 107,034 15,306 14
Lusaka 159,671 104,198 65
Northern 74,848 31,475 42
Total 341,553 150,979 36
Interruptions
Mr Imasiku: Madam, since the pre-paid project started, ZESCO Limited has seen great improvement in terms of revenue collections from the residential ...
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
It has become almost impossible for anyone to concentrate. There is free talk in the House.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Can the hon. Members consult quietly? If it becomes necessary that you …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I am speaking.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: … speak loudly, you do it outside and come back when you are ready to listen. Otherwise, it is impossible to follow what is going on with all the talking from all over. Can we, please, listen and continue to deliver as expected.
The hon. Minister may continue.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Imasiku: I thank you Madam Speaker. Since the pre-paid project started, ZESCO Limited has seen great improvement in terms of revenue collection from residential tariff customers where pre-paid meters have been installed. Prior to the commencement of the project, revenue collection from residential customers was in the region of 78 per cent. This has now improved to 130 per cent, as we are able to collect payments in advance for the electricity tokens and also for those that had debt from the previous credit metering system since part of the debt is paid each time they buy tokens for electricity.
Madam Speaker, the statistics as at December 2010 are shown in the following table:
Division Billing for the Amounts Collected Debt Collected Collection
Period K’m K’m through Pre- Performance
Payment K’m (%)
Copperbelt 9,457 11,568 2,111 115
Lusaka 261,113 280,469 19,356 134
Northern 46,370 52,863 6,493 142
Total 316,940 344,900 27,960 130
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when ZESCO will complete the installation of pre-paid meters countrywide.
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, ZESCO intends to cover the whole nation with pre-paid meters. The project is on going and meters are being assembled at the joint ZESCO facility in Ndola. However, I cannot give a definite date, suffice to say that this is irreversible and all customers will all be put on pre-paid billing.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to learn from the hon. Minister how ZESCO intends to enhance its revenue generation when it starts installing solar energy in people’s houses.
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I am surprised by that question because I was very comprehensive in my statement. I think I will bring a ministerial statement to the House, suffice to say that ZESCO currently provides energy to its customers predominantly from hydropower. That is the energy that is billed to customers. If most customers, including the hon. Members in the House, checked their bills, they would note that 40 per cent of their bill is due to heating. Therefore, by releasing that energy and acquiring it from solar, that energy will be available on the market for resale. That is added revenue to the corporation. I think it is very simple logic.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, may I know when ZESCO will start installing the three phase pre-paid meters.
Madam Deputy Speaker: We seem to be departing from the issue of pre-paid meters. The hon. Minister may answer.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, ZESCO has actually already embarked on the installation of three phase pre-paid meters on a trial basis on certain selected customers. Based on the results of this pilot programme, it will then be applied to other customers.
I thank you, Madam
Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure us that the quality of the three phase pre-paid meters is good, considering that, in my case, one was installed and only worked for two days and ZESCO has not been able to come and repair it or replace it. Are they going to ensure that the three phase pre-paid meters are going to be working?
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, ZESCO is mandated to provide quality working equipment on a customer’s premises and that is why this programme is on a pilot basis to determine its efficacy so that it can be rolled out afterwards to customers. I have taken note of the issue raised by the hon. Member and, through this response, ZESCO will be appropriately informed.
I thank you, Madam Spekaer.
Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development when the installation of free solar geysers will be extended to villages like my village in Matahataha in Monze where there is no firewood for the people to use.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, ZESCO intends to cover all parts of the country with the programme of installing solar geysers. The major objective is to release that energy which can be used by other consumers. So, it is a truly well-intended objective.
The challenge now is that after the launch, ZESCO has to advertise for the recruitment of plumbers, technicians, handymen, electricians to undertake this well-intended programme. I am sure that hon. Members of the House are aware of this. ZESCO has actually advertised for people to apply for jobs in all the seventy-four districts of the country and the electorate will get jobs in the process. Do you understand?
Interruptions
Mr Konga: Therefore, when the programme reaches Matahataha Village where the hon. Member’s grandmother lives, a geyser will be installed.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Beene: Madam Speaker, load shedding has been affecting customers who have paid money in advance to ZESCO. Customers have been losing out when power is shut down. What mechanism is ZESCO putting in place to make sure that the money which customers pay is utilised and they benefit from it?
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, it is quite strange that the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi is charged for electricity that he has not consumed when there is load shedding. That is very strange. The purpose of pre-paid metering is that the consumer is charged as he/she uses electricity.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, the question was not about solar geysers but, since the hon. Minister has given his opinion on the same issue, may I know whether the Government plans to extend the installation of solar geysers to places that traditionally have no firewood such as on the Barotse Plains? Does it consider giving solar geysers to every villager so that they save on the little firewood that is still there?
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
The answer was given through the supplementary question by the hon. Member for Monze Central.
BOREHOLES IN CHOLERA PRONE AREAS
457. Colonel Chanda (Kanyama) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:
(a) how many boreholes were earmarked to be sunk in cholera prone areas countrywide in 2011;
(b) of the boreholes above, how many would be sunk in Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency and when; and
(c) what the total cost of the exercise at (a) above was.
The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Akakandelwa): Madam Speaker, in 2011, the Government, through the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, has plans to construct a total of ninety boreholes for mitigation in areas that are affected by drought, floods and cholera countrywide.
Madam Speaker, Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency will benefit from the ten boreholes allocated to Lusaka Province when the need arises.
Madam Speaker, the total cost of the exercise is K2.6 billion. This cost will include geographical investigations (siting of boreholes), drilling, equipping with hand pump, construction of aprons and drainages.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Colonel Chanda: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the people of Kanyama have had to endure a lot of hardships, especially with regard to water borne diseases such as cholera? The need is as at yesterday. Is the hon. Minister going to reconsider his answer?
Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the need for boreholes in Kanyama and especially having come from the rainy season where we often have cholera outbreaks. As the hon. Member will definitely admit, compared to the previous years and this year when this very hard working Government embarked on the programme of drilling drainages in Kanyama, the rate of cholera has drastically reduced.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Konga: Therefore, this figure is adequate unless the situation changes otherwise.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
____________
MOTIONS
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology for the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 24th May, 2011.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?
Mrs Kawandami(Chifubu): I beg to second the Motion.
Mr Mukanga:Madam Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order No. 157 (2) and the programme of work for the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly, your Committee considered the topical issue of community schools in Zambia.
Madam Speaker, the background and objectives of this inquiry are that the National Policy on Education espouses that education provision involves increasing school places by expanding the education system through community resources and that the democratisation of education with its demands for partnership in education provision, requires that the Government creates an enabling environment and establishes rules and regulations that will protect the rights of various education agencies to full and fair participation in education development.
Madam Speaker, premised on the above, your Committee sought to inquire into the following:
(i) impact of community schools on enhancing access to education for all eligible children;
(ii) extent which the Government has facilitated access of community schools to educational resources, training, finance and donor resources;
(iii) whether community schools are contributing to the overall quality of education being provided in Zambia; and
(iv) the Government’s plans on the future of community schools vis-a-vis education provision.
Madam Speaker, in order to address the issues raised above, your Committee interacted with several witnesses who both tendered written and oral submissions. Your Committee also toured selected community schools in the Central and Luapula provinces to carry out an on-the-spot check of the state of community schools.
Madam Speaker, considering that hon. Members have read the report, I will just highlight a few pertinent issues that emanated from your Committee’s inquiry and the local tour.
Madam Speaker, with regard to the impact of community schools on enhancing access to education, your Committee was informed that numerically, community schools had a huge impact on access to school places by eligible vulnerable children, particularly in rural areas. Your Committee learnt that, by 2008, number of community schools increased to 3,000, representing 34 per cent of the total number of basic schools and enrolling about 20 per cent of the eligible population of children in Zambia.
Madam Speaker, pertaining to the facilitation of access of community schools to training, finance and donor resources, your Committee was informed that the Government had abrogated its responsibility in this regard. Your Committee was surprised to learn that, in fact, the Government ranked second to non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and faith-based organisations in the provision of resources and training to community schools and teachers.
Your Committee considers the sustenance of community schools and, indeed, the provision of education in general to be the responsibility of the Government and that non-governmental and faith-based organisations should just supplement this effort and not the other way round.
Madam Speaker, with regard to the quality of education being provided in community schools and whether it was adding to the overall quality of education in Zambia, your Committee learnt that there was a misconception in some sections of the society that good performance at public examinations by pupils from community schools was an indication that the quality of education being provided there was high.
Many stakeholders, however, attributed the comparatively better, than, Government-schools-performance in public examinations by pupils from community schools to the commitment of both volunteer teachers and pupils rather than quality. They argued that it was not possible to talk about quality in community schools when the schools lacked decent infrastructure, learning and teaching materials as well as trained teachers. To ensure quality, your Committee recommends that the Government takes responsibility for the provision of infrastructure and learning and teaching resources as well as teachers. Further, standards officers from the District Education Board Secretary’s Office (DEBS) should include community schools on their inspection roll.
Madam Speaker, pertaining to the qualifications of teachers in community schools, your Committee was informed and actually witnessed it during local tours that the average qualifications were Grade 9 or 10 and in some isolated cases, Grade 12 Certificates. Most of these teachers are volunteers whose remuneration is mostly in kind. Your Committee discovered that because these teachers had to be paid somehow by the local community, the schools charged a nominal fee, which made it difficult for some children to attend them. In essence, community schools have ended up being more expensive than Government basic schools which have scrapped off user fees. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that funding community schools and payment of teachers’ salaries be a responsibility of the Government.
Madam Speaker, with regard to the average age and social status of children attending community schools, your Committee was informed that this ranged between six and twenty-one years and that most of them were orphans. Your Committee learnt that due to the long distances to regular schools, many children were made to wait until they were old enough to walk these distances without being escorted by older people. Your Committee learnt that by 2009, there were 19,964 orphans attending community schools. In addition, due to the poverty levels of households from which these children came, many girls were forced into early marriages.
Madam, your Committee recommends that the sensitisation programme against early marriages in rural areas be scaled up by including officers from the Victim Support Unit of the Zambia Police Force on the Community Schools Parents’ Committees.
Madam Speaker, during the tours, your Committee discovered that the efforts by non-governmental and faith-based organisations to support and develop community schools were being hampered by the poor road network in may rural areas. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the road network be improved.
Madam Speaker, on the way forward, your Committee was told that the running of community schools alongside the regular Government ones, had created a dual education system; one for the well-to-do and the other for the poor. It was, therefore, proposed that to provide equal access to education for all Zambian children, the Government should take over community schools, as it has done in some places, to avoid some sections of the society feeling more privileged than others.
Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to note that the Education Bill, 2011, which was recently passed by this House attempts to legalise community schools and bring them in the ambit of the Ministry of Education.
Madam Speaker, may I conclude by taking this opportunity to thank you for the guidance provided to your Committee during their deliberations. May I also thank all chief executives and stakeholders who appeared before your Committee and facilitated the local tours.
I would also like to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee during its long meetings and tours.
Madam speaker, I beg to move.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later.
Mrs Kawandami: Now, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion that this House do now adopt the Report of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology for the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly. In seconding the Motion, which has been so ably moved by the Chairperson, I will just highlight a few issues which the mover might not have touched on.
Madam Speaker, community schools, which were originally meant to be a stop-gap measure, have become a permanent feature of the education system. As such the Education Act, 2011, which incorporates them into the mainstream education system, is welcome. Further, the Government should bring them to acceptable education standards by improving infrastructure.
Madam Speaker, girl-child education has suffered a lot in community schools due to poor infrastructure and sanitation. When girls reach the age of fourteen and above, they find it difficult to continue to sit on the floor and squat in unsanitary pit latrines. They, therefore, dropout of school.
Madam Speaker, the other issue I would like to comment on is that of early marriages. Early marriages have also adversely affected girl-child education. This is because girls have no role models in their own societies and therefore, they do not aspire for anything. Parents also think they cannot continue to struggle to finance the education of a girl child, knowing that, like their sisters and aunties before them, they will not go very far. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government improves sanitation and provides desks and other requisites to community schools. The Government should also stiffen sanctions against perpetrators of early marriages.
Madam Speaker, your Committee also noted that whereas communities were more than willing to hand over their schools to the Government, in some cases, the Government had been too slow in taking them over.
Madam Speaker, on the other hand, community schools which were run by families or individuals in partnership with donors, found it difficult to hand over such schools to the Government even when the Government expressed intent to do so, due to the pecuniary interest in the schools.
In this regard, your Committee, Madam Speaker, recommends that the Government quickly takes over community schools where the community has applied for it. The Government should also not allow families or individuals to run community schools which end up being private schools, disguised as community schools and, therefore, do not pay tax.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, allow me, from the outset, to state that I support the Motion to adopt the Committee’s report.
Madam, development in any nation can only be premised on the provision of education and not mere education, but quality education. In the history of nations, we have seen that those nations that have surpassed us in terms of development have done so, primarily on the basis of the amount of investment put into the education of their people. Specifically, these are the four-tiger economies in the Far East. We noted that most of them had a gross domestic product (GDP) per capita which was lower than that of Zambia in 1964. However, today, their GDPs per capita are much higher than that of Zambia. One of the major reasons for this is that they were able to educate their people to levels where they are able run their economies now.
Madam Speaker, your Committee has done well to dwell on the issue of community schools. In the Zambian situation, the desire for education permeates all levels of society, especially in rural areas where we have not had much investment in terms of provision of education. Due to this lack of investment in education, communities, on their own, have decided to ensure that they put up schools where their children could be educated.
Madam, it is the right of every child in every nation to have access to education. Therefore, the plight of the children that go to these community schools, especially in rural areas, needs to be looked at, not only by this Government, but by any government that may take over from them.
Speaking specifically of rural areas, Madam Speaker, the experience of those of us who represent constituencies in rural areas is that, more often than not, the quality of the community schools leaves much to be desired. More often than not, again, children learn under very difficult circumstances. In a number of places, the structures are not fit to really accommodate human beings. In a number of community schools these children learn under trees.
Madam Speaker, additionally, in a number of instances of community schools in rural areas, the teachers are often people who have dropped out from various levels of education and, therefore, are not trained as teachers. What quality of education can we expect the children that go to these schools to have?
The additional burden for the parents in villages and other rural areas is that, not only do they have to provide everything in terms of infrastructure and teaching aids, but also salaries or stipends for these community schools. This lowers the quality of education in these community schools even further.
Madam Speaker, it is necessary, if we are to create a nation of equals, a nation that moves together in terms of development, to look at the plight of those children who, through no fault of their own, happen to be born in rural areas.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}
[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was lamenting the poor quality of community schools, especially in rural areas and high density townships. The poor quality of schools is affecting the quality of education that our children who go to these institutions are offered.
Madam, in addition to the poor quality of classrooms and desks, in fact in most cases, the non-existence of these facilities is an extra burden on our rural communities that have established these community schools. There is the extra burden to provide salaries and other requisites for the teaching staff. In Zambia, it is a well-known fact that the rural communities suffer higher poverty levels than those of their colleagues in towns and urban areas. It is in these places where parents have to find a way of raising money to pay the community teachers. In a number of cases, they have to surrender some of their produce to make sure that these teachers have something to eat.
Madam Speaker, my request to this Government, which has a few weeks to go, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr V. Mwale: Question!
Interruptions
Mr Milupi: … or any other government is to focus on education. There is no excuse whatsoever, Madam Speaker, for a nation such as Zambia, which is developing, to continue with the concept of community schools. Let the provision of education be a right for all. Therefore, the teachers and facilities in these schools must be the responsibility of the government of the day.
In addition to these poor quality community schools, let me talk about a specific area, a portion of which I represent in this Parliament and, that is, the Barotse Plains. This is a place where education in the whole of Zambia first reached this country, through the establishment of schools such as Lwatile, among others. However, since independence, in the whole of the Barotse Plains, which is a place where a number of communities reside, very little has been done in terms of provision of schools either basic or high schools. From Nguwana where the Barotse Plains begin, all the way to Sioma Falls, there are no high schools. This is an injustice to the people who live on these plains. Any government that comes in office, if it is you who is lucky enough to come back, must make special effort to ensure that these communities are also provided with high schools.
Madam Speaker, the premise of the provision of quality education can only rest on a highly-trained and motivated teaching staff.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, let us give ourselves a little time to listen to the debate on the Floor of the House and then we can go and talk elsewhere. It is very difficult to listen because everyone is very busy talking about other things.
Will the hon. Member continue, please.
Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, over the years in this House and elsewhere, we have lamented over what we have done to our teaching staff. The conditions of service have moved their status from that of being workers in a noble profession to those in a struggling one. It is necessary that this country, as it goes forward, begins to look at teachers as those professionals who are sacrificing a lot to ensure that the transfer of knowledge from themselves to our children is done in an efficient and effective manner. Is this what we see, especially in the rural areas? We see hardships such as lack of housing in a number of schools. This has forced some areas to embark on the construction of semi permanent teachers, houses for the sole purpose of alleviating the housing problems.
Madam Speaker, in 2008, in a number of schools in Luena, for example, basic schools like Macho, had only three teachers. At places like Usha Basic School, there were only six teachers and this was mostly due to the lack of housing. This was the trend in many other basic schools. We have to focus on motivating our teachers and the way to do that is to ensure that they are paid sufficiently so that they can live comfortably. They should not only be paid sufficiently, but also provided with requisite facilities such as housing and social facilities within the premises of their schools. Even rural areas where it is a well-known fact that teachers do not have houses such as Luena, they still face difficulties in them receiving their housing and rural hardship allowances. Why this continues to be the case is beyond my comprehension. In places like the Limulunga Royal Village which by definition is a village, teachers from Limulunga High School and the basic school as well as other schools still face problems in getting their rural hardship allowance.
Madam Speaker, we also lament about the difficulties which many teachers in rural areas find in travelling from their schools to pay points. Let me now talk about the education provision in Liuwa Constituency. I can see that the hon. Member from that constituency is here. The one who seeks to unseat him is also here.
Laughter
Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, at a place called Siluwe School in a remote area because of lack of infrastructure, the teachers from there often have to travel seven days from the school to Mongu where they get their salaries and often the salaries are not ready on time. The teachers have to wait for another seven days before they can embark on a return journey of which takes up another seven days. This means that in a month, twenty one days are taken up by the teachers travelling just to go and get their salaries.
Madam Speaker, they just work for one week. What quality of education are we providing to our children in a school such as that? I have just given that one school as an example, but there many other such schools in Mpulungu, Luena and Shang’ombo where such hardships are a daily occurrence. We must do what is necessary as a Government to ensure that even as we plan for infrastructure development we also ensure that all our areas are opened up to ease communication between places.
Madam Speaker, one other issue is that of the lack of high schools in rural areas. In Luena Constituency, for example, there is only one very small high school in a place which is about 50km wide and 150km in length. It is inconceivable to even imagine that children who are being born all over this constituency will all be able to find space in that one basic school which is in the corner of the constituency. What are we planning for our children? What is happening to so many dropouts at grades 7 and 9 who are not able to find places in high schools? Worse still, since we have insufficient boarding facilities available unlike in colonial times, children have to find relatives to stay with. However, due to the way this Government has run the economy whereby hardships are all over the place, families are unable to take in many relatives and this means lack of access to education for some children.
Beyond that, Madam Speaker, as I wind up my debate, let me now look at what happens to those who drop out at grades 7 and 9. What happens to the children that go through our education system, especially those who drop out at grades 7 and 9? What hope do they have? Most of you here left school at whatever level, but still found employment waiting for you. Most of you could choose whether to go to college, university or get employed. Unfortunately, that is not the case these days. What nation are we creating?
Most of our children have no hope for the future regardless of whether they drop out of school in Grade 9 or complete their Grade12. I always say that the day our children receive their certificate for Grade 12 is the beginning of their trials and tribulations of walking the streets of different towns looking for non-existent jobs. With utter hopelessness, they end up going to the village where they just spend their time sitting idly. In fact, some people are of the opinion that even the English which our children learn in schools is just used to insult their elders after drinking tujili jili. This is an issue which we, as a nation, must focus on. We need to organise our system in a manner which is known in corporate governance as succession planning.
Madam Speaker, any nation which hopes to have a good future has to provide for its young ones. Let us move away from the political parlance of saying that the young are the future leaders. Let us embrace them now as our followers. We must provide them with education which will place them in good stead to take up the leadership of this country.
Further, Madam Speaker, even those leaving colleges, either with diplomas or certificates and universities with degrees, spend their time walking on the streets to look for jobs because of the way we have managed our country. What sort of setup have we put in place for ourselves? What must be done to ensure that the many things that have gone wrong over the years are corrected?
Madam Speaker, issues to do with our young ones are very important. The type of education we set up for our children will determine what type of citizens we will have in the future. The education provision is very important. Let our preoccupation be to provide it not only to those who live here in towns where we are putting an inordinate amount of resources, but also to those who live in squalor in high density areas. We should look at the rural areas because we cannot decongest towns and urban areas if we do not provide proper social amenities such as education in such areas. We also need to provide other facilities which support a good education provision.
With those words, as I say bye to this Government, I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Munaile (Malole): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of this House. From the outset, I wish to state that I support the report of your Committee. The Committee, on page 3 of its report, quoted the National Policy on Education of 1996 on the future of education in our country, which reads as follows:
“The Ministry will strongly support development along these lines and will facilitate the access of such schools to educational resources, training, finance and donor resources.”
Madam Speaker, the question that begs an answer is to what extent has the Ministry of Education gone to actualise this statement since 1996? As far as I am concerned, the Ministry of Education has performed below expectations for the people I represent in Malole Constituency. I have forty-five community schools in Malole Constituency and, of these, only four of them have been provided with teachers because the Government has upgraded them. Even the schools that the Government has upgraded continue to face many challenges. The schools have no desks since they were constructed about two to three years ago. There is no teachers’ accommodation and yet we expect the teachers to stay at these schools and continue to teach our children in that kind of environment. I do not think that will be possible.
Madam Speaker, in the rest of the community schools in Malole Constituency, pupils are only taught by teachers who are either Grade 9 dropouts or form threes. I wonder how the pupils who go to these schools will be able to get quality education. As your Committee in its report rightly stated, most of these community schools are just there to help our children to read and write. It is not easy for them to get the quality education that they really need and yearn for.
Madam Speaker, in most schools in rural areas, Malole inclusive, most of the pupils have dropped out of school because their parents cannot even afford to pay the fees. In most cases payment is in kind and yet the parents still fail to afford these payments. As a result, if you go through most of the schools in the rural areas, there are a few children in them just because their parents cannot afford the fees that are expected of them. I want to state that unless the Government moves in quickly and does what is expected in cases of community schools, we will be talking about education and yet nothing is coming out at the low levels of our society.
Madam Speaker, the Government introduced what are called green sites where some schools are built in rural areas. What surprises me is that the Government builds these schools in places where people are not even ready for them. The Government just goes to a place and imposes a school there and yet we have so many community schools where schools can be built and upgraded. The Government is, however, doing things the other way round. It wants to start schools in places where people are not prepared, and as such, these projects take years to finish.
Madam Speaker, I want to implore the ministry to ensure that these green sites are taken to places where community schools are. There are about five green sites that were constructed in Malole Constituency from 2009 to date. However, no desks and teachers have been sent to these schools and yet the Government took the initiative to build the schools. It is now two to three years down the line and the people of Malole are still waiting. The ministry should ensure that these schools that the Government has built are given the support that they need.
Madam Speaker, most of the community schools that have been upgraded in my constituency are still as they were before they were upgraded. Of course, a few teachers have been sent there, but the schools have not been fully upgraded. There is nothing that is happening in terms of new infrastructure such as teachers’ houses and classroom blocks being built. So there is not much difference. The only difference is that some teachers have been sent there, but they have so many challenges because the Government is not supporting them.
Madam Speaker, as the hon. Member for Luena said, unless we invest in education, we will not get the people that we need such as technicians, graduates and so on and so forth. As long as we underplay the importance of education in this country, we will continue to struggle until the Lord comes.
Madam Speaker, despite budget provisions, the Government has not built any schools in Malole Constituency since 2009. The Infrastructure Development Programme of the ministry has not been fulfilled to this day and we are only months away from the elections. I wonder when the monies will be released to ensure that the schools which were earmarked for construction in Malole Constituency are built. I wonder what is really happening because we keep hearing that there is so much money going to different areas. I am yet to hear about money coming to Malole to build schools.
Madam Speaker, Malole Constituency is 10,000 square kilometres, but the people there do not even have a girls’ high school. On the other hand, we see construction works taking place in some districts when they have more schools than they need. They are able to provide so many schools for their constituencies when some of us are only asking for one. Is that how the distribution of the country’s resources is going to be? We all need schools and we all must be considered when it comes to the distribution of these resources.
Madam Speaker, allow me to talk about the establishment in the Ministry of Education. I want to ask the hon. Minister of Education to look into issues to do with his establishment. Many schools have been upgraded in this country without the necessary establishment being put in place. You will find that a school that has grades 1 to 9 only has an establishment of six teachers. How then will these teachers divide themselves among the so many classes? The hon. Minister should look into this matter seriously. I am surprised that while I am raising a serious concern, the people who are supposed to address it are busy talking amongst themselves.
Mr Muntanga: They are not listening.
Mr Munaile: Madam Speaker, it is, however, important that the Government looks at the establishment in the Ministry of Education so that it gives more teachers to the schools which lack teachers.
Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I want to state that unless the Government moves in and upgrades these community schools and gives us the teachers we deserve, our people will not have access to better education.
Madam Speaker, the community school in Mubombelwa in my constituency has been running for years, and yet no upgrade has been talked about.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Munaile: The people of Chikulu, Kasoma, Lusenga and many others have been running community-based schools for years, and yet the Government is not even thinking of upgrading them into basic schools so that the people can benefit from what it is doing.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: As the hon. Members continue, let us remember that we have to debate the report. All of us have constituencies and if we do not stick to debating the report, we will end up debating our constituencies. So, hon. Members who want to debate, please, debate the report.
Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for your guidance, but before we divert to address national issues, we feel that we have an obligation to our constituencies.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Laughter
The Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Lukulu East, unfortunately, that will not be accepted. We have a schedule of work and, each day, we have something we are considering. So, we do not just come here to introduce what we want to debate because we are affected. There is a lot in the report that affects you and that is what you should debate. For now, introducing what is in Lukulu East is not what we are doing. We have a report and so refer to it, hon. Member. If you are only ready for Lukulu East ah ah, do not stand to speak so that we move on.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: May you continue.
Mr Imenda: Madam Speaker, in reference to the report, I would like to indicate that most of the areas in the country …
Mr Milupi sat next to Mr Matongo.
Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. I cannot see anything unprocedural. Can you raise your point of order.
Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, thank you. You are wonderful.
Laughter
Mr Muyanda: As we are winding up, I am delighted that you have given me this …
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The Chair does not need to be wonderful.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: She is just the Chair and there should be no emotion attached to it. So, forget about how wonderful or terrible the Chair is.
You may continue to raise your point of order and, hopefully, not on the Chair.
Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much. Indeed, I do not to have to draw the Chair into my wonderful point of order. However, is the honourable president of the Alliance for Development and Democracy (ADD), who has defected to the United Party for National Development (UPND), today, in order not to announce to this august House that, with effect from today, he is a UPND member, …
Laughter
Mr Muyanda: … as his entire executive has left him? I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Laughter
Mr Muyanda: The other one, Hon. Sakwiba Sikota, SC., who has run away, was here to agree that this consortium of the Western Province should join the UPND. I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: You observe that, indeed, hon. Members are thinking of other things rather than the report before the House. The Chair is aware that there is a lot of thinking about the future and who goes where. However, the serious ruling is that this House does not accept such announcements of who has joined who and, therefore, the hon. Member is in order not to even dare mention where he is going in this House.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: So, the hon. Member can go and make the announcement where that is done.
The hon. Member for Lukulu East may continue.
Mr Imenda: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. In reference to the report, I would like to mention that the position of the report contradicts that of the ministry with regard to the very dynamic programme as was set by the then minister who talked about getting rid of the pole and mud schools by 2011.
The other programme was about projects which were left out in the micro projects and those which were left out due to their being phased out. Currently, the pole and mud schools, wherever they still exist, are abandoned and are not being attended to. As such, the new policy by the ministry to come up with the current programmes is contradicting its earlier position.
Madam Speaker, the other programme which has been left out is that of attending to schools such as those which were constructed before Independence. The ministry was very categorically clear in this House and guided the nation that schools which were constructed before Independence were going to be attended to so that, by now, the pole and mud schools were going to be eliminated. However, that has not been done.
Just as an example to jack up the memories of the ministry, as a rider, in Lukulu, I can cite a school such as Winana, which is part of that programme that has been abandoned by the ministry. The infrastructure development at this school has been abandoned.
All we are seeing now is the implementation of the 2008 Budget and part of 2009 Budget. If you look at the 2009 and 2010 budgets, including the budget for this year, very few schools will be accommodated in the area of infrastructure development by the ministry. So, we have been wondering why there has been a shift of policy by the ministry.
Madam Speaker, the other issue is that of schools that are left hanging at slab level and for a period of over ten years. To date, such schools are abandoned, and yet we are talking about continuity. So, we would like to find out why and when the Government is going to attend to such schools.
Again, as a rider, I would like to give, as an example, schools such as Likapayi, which was given K225 million by the ministry to be attended to. We were also given a plan by the ministry to prepare for the construction of this school. In addition to this school, schools such as Litunge and Nalonde were also in the plans to receive attention, but currently they are still in the same state as before the announcement was made. So, we would like to find out why there is a lack of continuity by the same ministry.
Madam, I am very sure that this situation is obtaining everywhere in this country. So, all we are saying is that much as we see on the television, everyday, things happening elsewhere, we do not see that in Lukulu. We all want to be part of that development which is being reported everyday on the screen.
Hon. Member: Which one?
Hon. Opposition Members: It is the same thing, iwe!
Mr Imenda: All we are asking for is not for the ministry to start a new project, but to implement the old projects that have been pending for over ten years now.
Mr Beene: Twenty!
Mr Imenda: Madam Speaker, what has happened to the pole and mud programme? I would like the hon. Minister, as he responds, to address that. Why have the schools which were constructed before Independence and should have been completed by 2011 been abandoned? If the Ministry of Education checked in its annual work plans, it would discover that these schools are always budgeted for. However, every time we make a review here, we do not see the implementation of those plans.
Madam Speaker, it is my wish and prayer that much as we are talking of endless progress, we take note of the fact that it is important, in life, to sit back and make a review of whatever plans you set out to do. This is because you may attempt to run fast, but only to realise that you are leaving people behind.
Madam, the plans of 2008, which were going towards 2009, were extremely dynamic and we said “Thank you”. However, the problem came at the level of implementation. Why have we abandoned those nice programmes? I do not think it is correct to allege that the change of ministers is what has caused the change of plans. Therefore, I just wanted to remind the ministry over that. I do not want to finish all the fifteen minutes allotted to me.
I thank you, Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Unless there are no other hon. Members indicating to contribute to the debate on reports, we normally do not encourage members of any given Committee to bring up tedious repetition because this is your report.
The Deputy Minister for Luapula Province (Mr Chimbaka): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate this Motion. As I support this report, I would like to discuss one of its aspects and this is the summary of some issues raised by the stakeholders.
Madam Speaker, I am very delighted to see that education in Zambia is evolving. This is so because the people of Zambia have realised that they have a constitutional duty to provide both informal and formal education to their families.
Madam Speaker, sometimes, hon. Members of Parliament and the people of Zambia in general, forget that we are coming from a very restrictive system of education where private institutions and community schools were not allowed to function in education at all. As a result, knowing that the earth rotates on its axis and for evolution to take place, the new generation in Zambia has understood that the MMD Government, in its manifesto, in 1991, pronounced the liberalised system of education. This means that the Zambian citizens, in addition to what the Government efforts are in the provision of education, have also a duty to do the same.
Madam, having read the statistics, my understanding and interpretation thereof is that the Zambian people have woken up to supplement the Government’s efforts because the role of the Government is basically to facilitate the provision of education emancipation. Therefore, what these statistics are telling me is that the people of Zambia are doing all they can to try and educate themselves in order for the economy to develop.
Madam Speaker, when you look at the education system now, having been a teacher for thirty years and served as a teachers’ representative for twenty-five years, I fully appreciate and understand how the education system has evolved. However, the most important thing is that we, as the Legislature, must understand that much as the Government is trying to put in all these efforts, we also have a duty to try and supplement them.
Madam Speaker, when we talk about the Government providing houses and schools, we should equally realise that we have to supplement that. For example, when some hon. Members of Parliament receive their gratuity, this month, they can use that money to build houses and schools so that other people can benefit from that money. That is the essence of a liberalised economy.
Madam Speaker, contribution to the theme of a liberalised education system is not necessarily dependent upon the Government. Therefore, as a Government which is directional in education, in our quest to reduce the challenges education is faced with, we want to see to it that we take on community schools and staff the many of them with qualified teachers. Besides that, the Government is trying to facilitate the taking into colleges of those who are pupil teachers and are on part-time, but have the right qualifications. This is so because we want to continue providing qualitative education to our Zambian citizens.
Therefore, much as we have these challenges and the Government exists, it is quite important that we realise that, as citizens of this country, we also have to contribute to the transformation of these challenges. How? As a Committee, I am very thankful that they are talking about the transformation of the curriculum because once we do that, definitely, we are going to ensure that as children graduate at Grade 12 level, they will also propel the wheels of development in education. This is being provided for in the MMD Manifesto and in the policy document of ‘Education for All’.
Madam, I also want to emphasise the point that I am delighted to see that because of a very lucrative and directional policy in education by this Government, we are seeing massive developments in so many basic and high schools and universities. This is what we are going to do, but the fact must remain that we all have a role to play and that is a continuous process.
Madam Speaker, I thank you very much.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, from the outset, I wish to support the report of your Committee. Your Committee has brought out a very important point by urging the Government to take over community schools. I think that it will be a very good thing for the Government to act upon this recommendation. The only unfortunate thing is that your Government is not even listening. It is busy …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
The hon. Member can only talk of what he can substantiate; see, hear and feel and cannot start imagining what is going on in the minds of the people on my right. Can the hon. Member debate what is in the report and not what he thinks they are doing?
The hon. Member for Kalomo Central may continue.
Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, as other hon. Members who spoke before me said, it is the responsibility of the Government to run community schools. I do not want to blame the hon. Ministers individually because it is the same MMD Government. Most community schools assist villages. Recently, a lot of community schools have mushroomed. We have had NGOs helping the villagers to build schools. I, therefore, urge the hon. Minister of Education to check the policy of building schools because it is only applied in rural areas. In rural areas, a school cannot be built within five kilometres, and yet this is done in urban areas. We have seen schools that are in towns sharing boundaries and from one block to another. Why should we have rules in rural areas different to the ones in towns? The population in rural areas is increasing as well. We need to support these schools. Firstly, the schools are far apart. The distances for the children are too long. The people in the villages do not have enough capacity to run the schools, and yet you will find that it is in the rural areas where villagers are being asked to contribute salaries for teachers. We want to get away from the old practice of leaving the responsibility of providing education solely to parents.
Hon. Opposition Member: MMD Manifesto.
Mr Muntanga: Someone has mentioned the MMD manifesto. Those that have read the MMD Manifesto know that they want to share this responsibility with the villagers, but for how long? There were private schools in certain areas. In Choma, there is no Government school. All of them are missionary schools. It is the Government of the First Republic that took the responsibility of running these schools. After they failed to run them, they started handing them back to the missionaries. When the MMD came into power, it abandoned everything. They have created a situation which is unattainable.
In areas like Liuwa, in the Western Province, a number of schools are made of mud and pole. I was in Liuwa. We do not have to deny the truth. I think the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning must go there because there is a need to take money there.
Mr Imasiku: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member who is debating so clumsily in order to say that there are no schools in Liuwa when the Government is currently building a high school in Libonda?
Mr Muntanga: Aah!
Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, there are a number of schools. Is he in order to insinuate that he would like to replace me with Hon. Musokotwane? I need your ruling, Madam.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
The hon. Member for Kalomo Central will have to seriously put those remarks into consideration as he debates.
You may continue.
Mr Muntanga: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will take into account the point of order that has been raised. I have been approached by both hon. Members. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning wants me to support him. As he is the Minister of Finance and National Planning, let him go to Liuwa …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Who goes to Liuwa is not part of the report. Hon. Members, let us try and stick to the report and speak about education. That is a serious matter.
The hon. Member may continue.
Mr Muntanga: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is the money that we all cry for. We need the money to build schools.
We have seen a situation where a Minister of Education takes more schools to his area than other places. We have seen this both in the case of Nalikwanda and Petauke. So, I urge the Government to take money for education to other areas also. It must reach places like Shang’ombo and Chama South. Community schools built by villagers must now be taken over by the Government because they are dilapidated. We ask the Government to recruit more teachers and stop the idea of training teachers and not post them at all and, after two years, go and look for the unemployed teachers or those that are still in Zambia because the rest may have gone to Botswana or elsewhere. It is good that this report has highlighted problems being faced by the people, especially pupils. While we urge the Government to look at community schools, they should also equip the existing schools. Desks should be bought for all schools. Since there is money available during this time of elections, we want this money to go to schools. It is money that has dropped like manna from Heaven. We want this money ...
Hon. UPND Member: Like snow.
Mr Muntanga: ... to be channelled to this report’s demand. I know both the hon. Minister and His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice are listening.
Hon. UPND Member: The hon. Minister has come.
Mr Muntanga: The schools are in dire need of funding. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning must ensure that schools are electrified. I know that there are free geysers in town that have been provided for campaign purposes, but the Government should also provide geysers and solar power to schools where there is no electricity. Most of the schools have been encouraged to start offering computer lessons. Now, how can they start teaching computers in rural schools when there is no electricity?
Hon. UPND Member: They are giving solar geysers in Lusaka.
Mr Muntanga: Now that ZESCO has money, we want to ensure that it shall continue with this programme in schools that we are talking about.
Hon. UPND Member: In Liuwa
Mr Muntanga: We do not expect to be to be told after the elections that we did not have money to sustain this programme which we have heard from hon. Ministers that it will include all rural areas. While the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning replaces the other man, he should ensure that those things that were said by …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
There should not be talk of replacements here. Debate the report and not who replaces who. That is not your area of concern.
Hon. Opposition Member: Musokotwane is not objective. The hon. Minister is not objective.
Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I will worry about Sesheke or is it Sisheke? The correct pronunciation is Sisheke.
Hon. UPND Members: It is Sisheke.
Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, in Sesheke, we also have a lot of mud and pole schools, …
Hon. UPND Member: Obama!
Mr Muntanga: … and my good friend, Obama of Zambia, needs assistance because we are overriding him. We are trying hard to use those schools as a platform against this Government.
Mr Sejani: Save that man.
Mr Muntanga: We want to save that man who is our friend so that the schools will benefit and all those who are members of the UPND are very welcome.
Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Mr Muntanga: We will ensure that we take up this recommendation. We will not doubt or hesitate to take the necessary steps to ensure that education is not only a priority, but will also be properly implemented.
Hon. Sejani: In Mulobezi!
Mr Muntanga: Mulobezi is so close to my constituency. I nearly cried, Madam Speaker, because of the distances the children have to walk to school.
Mr Sejani: In Mulobezi.
Mr Muntanga: The headman I talked to, who happens to be a hon. Deputy Minister, agreed with me. He shed tears.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: I emphasise that education is well supported. Madam Speaker, I am really serious because even in Kaputa, where I was recently, this problem is there too.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: This report is important.
Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: It is important.
Mr Sejani: You are passionate.
Mr Muntanga: I am passionate. I am looking at these people here.
Hon. Opposition Member: Can you cry?
Mr Muntanga: God did not allow me to cry unnecessarily, but I can say that this country is in dire need of improving education standards and infrastructure. Let us not give lip service to the education sector.
Hon. UPND Member: In Shang’omba.
Mr Muntanga: It is obvious. In areas like Chadiza …
Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: … and Vubwi ...
Hon. UPND Member: Chama North!
Mr Muntanga: … the situation is the same.
When you hear the Zambian people complain, it is not a joke.
Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I want to say that this report has carried everything. We do not want children to continue walking long distances to school.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: Some of these people know that what I am talking about is serious. I can see the worry.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
The hon. Member will debate without being guided.
Mr Muntanga: I am much obliged, Madam Speaker.
What I am talking about is serious business. We have professors in this House. They are all professors of education. Why do we now want to abscond and leave our children to suffer?
Hon. UPND Members: Like soldiers!
Mr Muntanga: Why? There is no need for people to suffer.
Hon. UPND Member: Professor Lungwangwa is here.
Mr Muntanga: He is hearing quite alright. There is even Professor Fashion Phiri.
Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
The hon. Member is enjoying listening to himself and may end up being caught up in tedious repetition apart from changing names of districts and hon. Members and calling them the names we do not know. The hon. Member may wind up. I think he has made his point.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I want to thank you so much that you have heard my point that the people of Kaputa need to be assisted and that the people in Liuwa and other places have all heard.
Mr Sejani: Mulobezi
Mr Muntanga: Mulobezi included.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to present facts and also to state things in their proper perspective so that the people of Kalomo can understand properly and not be misguided.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I do agree with the sentiments made by many colleagues in the House that education is very important in the development of a country.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, most of us here are what we are because of the education that we received so that we have professors, Members of Parliament and engineers. It is all because of the education that we received.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, education is the best asset that parents can leave for their children because cattle, houses and everything else can be lost, but not so with education.
Madam Speaker, the Asian tiger economies are what they are today because they have had a very clever way of blending education with development. A lot of colleagues here just talked about education. Yes, it is very important to have education for the reasons that I have already indicated, but there is also one other very important aspect that must go hand in hand with education. This is investment.
Madam Speaker, the reason it is so is that for us to provide quality education, whether we are talking about the infrastructure that so many colleagues are talking about, or quality teachers and quality educational aids, you cannot just wish these things to be there. It is easy for some of the colleagues to say that this and that is not there. Yes, but that is oversimplifying things.
Madam Speaker, the most important thing, in the first place, is to have a solid economic base for which you should be able to provide education. If that economic base does not exist, it will not be possible for you to build schools, hire teachers and build laboratories.
So, when you see what has happened in the Asian economies, you will note that they had a very strong policy for encouraging investments thus the economy was growing. Jobs were created and, therefore, when people where coming out of college and schools, they did not walk the streets because jobs were being created and these jobs were paying the taxes for further re-investment in education.
Therefore, the issue of education and investments in the economy go together. Madam Speaker, just to illustrate this point, you will recall that in the 1960s and 70s, this is the time when we had very rapid development in education. For the first time in the history of this country, there was, at least, one secondary school being constructed in every district. For the first time, those of us who went to school then were not paying school fees. We were just going to school because the Government managed to pay for us. This was possible because we had a good education sector and a good economy that provided the resources for us to do these things. Now, something happened and I want to be very clear about what went wrong.
Madam Speaker, the many young Zambians that the nation educated at very great expense started mismanaging our biggest economic sector in the country.
Therefore, rather than producing 700,000 tonnes of copper, we saw this dropping to only 200,000 tonnes of copper. This mismanagement of the copper sector by the many professionals and managers who were there was the beginning of the economic problems. When I listen to some of the colleagues who say their schools do not have this and that, I think they are ignoring the role that they played in mismanaging the economy of the country.
Hon. Opposition. Members: Who?
Dr Musokotwane: They know themselves.
Interruptions
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, they want to ignore the enormous destruction that they caused to the economy of the country. Thus, all of a sudden, we were not able to build schools, hospitals and hire teachers, among others. People must be careful when they start pointing fingers and saying it is that Government because they had roles in destroying this country’s economy. The good thing …
Hon. Opposition Member: You were in high school!
Dr Musokotwane: You do not exist. We are going to trounce and not endure those savages.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the good news that I have is that this sector that was being mismanaged is now coming up very powerfully.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, from 200,000 tonnes of copper, we now have close to 800,000 tonnes of copper production. From exporting copper worth about US$900 million, we are now talking about exports reaching almost US$10 billion.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as a result of these developments that have seen the economic base rising, schools are being built, teachers being hired and infrastructure is being constructed. The future of the education of this country is in bright hands although there may be problems here and there.
Madam Speaker, two years ago, when I joined this Parliament, I heard many of the colleagues in this House praising Professor Lungwangwa. Everyone was saying, “Very good, I have a school in my constituency”. Some of these colleagues in this House will say this today and tomorrow they will say the opposite. As a result, today, they want to pretend that they do not have schools in their constituencies and yet, two years ago, they were praising the Government for all the schools that are being constructed countrywide.
Interruptions
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the economy today is growing faster than it has ever grown. This is why we see that in the Barotse Flood Plains, for the first time ever, a high school is being constructed. Let us not mislead people by saying that there is no high school in the Barotse Flood Plains because it is being constructed at the moment.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, this is why for the first time, the teachers who used to walk for seven days to get their salaries, as was being indicated, today, those teachers are able to go to Kalabo. I am referring to the issue of a rural school that was being mentioned. Today, the long distances to schools have been cut because for the first time ever, a bank has gone there and teachers are able to get their salaries faster than ever before.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, let me say that, indeed, I recognise that there are many outstanding problems in the education sector but, at the same time, we must recognise and appreciate when progress is being made. Those who are not able to see these schools and laboratories being constructed, as usual, tend to deceive themselves because that is what they are very good at doing.
Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to make a brief contribution on this Motion.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to wind up the Motion.
Madam Deputy Speaker: You cannot wind up somebody’s Motion.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, a lot has been said this afternoon on your Report on Education, Science and Technology. The Chairperson of the Committee was very clear on the essence of the report which is to focus on the state of community schools. The message which was conveyed to the Government, to which we were very attentive, was that we improve the quality of community schools in our country by providing better infrastructure such as classrooms, educational materials, desks and supplying the schools with trained teachers and motivating them, inspecting and integrating the community schools into the mainstream school system. This was the message which the report conveyed to the Government. The message is very straightforward and clear and this is exactly what the Government is doing.
Madam Speaker, this Government has formulated a policy on community schools which outlines the criteria for incorporating a community school into the mainstream school system and the support that the Government gives to the community schools. There are, indeed, two types of community schools. Firstly, we have those community schools which currently fall under Government support. We also have those community schools which fall under community support. The criteria for transition are very clear in the policy document on community schools. As far as the recognition and integration of community schools into the mainstream education system is concerned, the Education Act which was debated in this House and which was, of course, a review of the 1966 Act, is very categorical on community schools. It stipulates that community schools are an integral part of the school system but, of course, the criteria on how they are upgraded are what are contained in the policy itself.
Madam Speaker, the report was very clear, straightforward and non-controversial in as far as the gist of the central message of the report is concerned. However, what is problematic is the direction that the debate took on the part of those who made their contributions to the debate.
Madam Speaker, the vision on education by this Government is very clear and we are committed, as a Government, to our policy direction. Our policy direction is anchored on ensuring that our education system expands to continuously have access to education opportunities.
Madam Speaker, our education system ensures equitability by embracing all categories of children. It operates at the highest possible level of quality. It is efficient as well as relevant to the needs of our development. These are policy goals which are very clear, and we are doing everything possible to ensure that we realise these policy goals which we have set for ourselves in an effort to improve our education system.
Madam Speaker, to implement our policy goals, the Government has put in place strategic options. These are to focus on the following:
(a) infrastructure development as our strategic option to realise our policies;
(b) teacher training, supply, deployment and motivation, which is cardinal to realisation of quality;
(c) educational materials provision, including the provision of computers in our school system and the education system as a whole;
(d) curriculum reform and review so that our education system continues to be relevant to our pupils at all levels of the education system; and
(e) monitoring the system to ensure that it operates in accordance with our policies and strategies.
Madam Speaker, our vision, as a Government, is very clear and we are working very hard to realise are vision.
The Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) is heavily anchored on infrastructure and human resource development. Therefore, there is no doubt regarding the seriousness of this Government in as far as the vision for education development is concerned. We are very serious and that is the more reason why, for instance, we are giving a lot of attention to skills development for our young, furthering education development in universities and transforming colleges into university-colleges. We are giving a lot of attention to investment in the education sector by the private sector. For the first time in the history of our country, we have a number of private universities which have been encouraged to operate, grow and make contribution to the development of our country.
Madam Speaker, a lot of effort has been made to expand the high school system in our country. The last time an effort was made to construct high schools in this country was in the 1980s. Mufumbwe and Lumezi schools in the Eastern Province were left at slab level, but they have now been completed. At the moment, this very hardworking Government is constructing several high schools. It is, currently, constructing sixty-five high schools countrywide and, by next year, they will reach 100.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the Southern Province has benefited tremendously from this programme of high school construction. Currently, the Kazungula, Itezhi-tezhi, Niko, Munyumbwe and Batoka high schools are being constructed.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, all these and others schools being constructed are …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Can we allow the hon. Minister to speak without making running commentaries.
The hon. Minister may continue.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, all these schools are being constructed with this Government’s effort and this is to give an example of the Southern Province only.
This is why the people of the Southern Province are extremely happy …
Interruptions
Professor Lungwangwa: … with the performance of this Government, and come the 2011 elections, our colleagues will not be here.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Lungwangwa: They will not be there because this is the last time our colleagues on your left are amusing themselves in this House. We have constructed well over 300 classrooms in various parts of the Southern Province. The records speak for themselves.
Hon. UPND Members: Where?
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, they are asking where because they do not visit their constituencies.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Lungwangwa: They do not know what is happening in their constituencies. The people of the Southern Province are complaining about these Members of Parliament because they do not go to their constituencies.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Lungwangwa: This Government is doing a lot.
Madam Speaker, on the pole and mud schools in Sesheke and Kalabo, the hon. Member for Kalomo Central does not have any facts at all. He does not know what is happening in Kalomo, Sesheke and other areas.
Laughter
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, we have constructed those pole and mud schools which he is referring to …
Hon. Opposition Member: Where?
Professor Lungwangwa: … in Sesheke, Kalabo …
Interruptions
Hon. Opposition Member: Kalabo?
Professor Lungwangwa: The problem with colleagues like Hon. Muntanga is that he really wants to turn this House into a place for drama. It is important to speak with facts.
Madam Speaker, Hon. Milupi raised issues concerning schools in his constituency and other parts of the Western Province. It is very clear that a lot of attention has been given to the construction of schools in Luena. At the moment, the Chinese are constructing Makuku Basic School in the constituency.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Lungwangwa: There is a contractor who is already on site in Makuku.
Madam Speaker, one of the problems we encountered, as a Government, is land. The hon. Member for Luena is aware that the delay in the construction of Makuku Basic School by the Chinese contractor was the controversy over land. Availability of land is one of the reasons we do not have as many high schools as we possibly can in the Barotse Plains. This is evident from what happened in Makuku, in Luena Constituency. Currently, Libonda High School in Kalabo is also being constructed.
Interruptions
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, …
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
I think hon. Members are enjoying this debate. However, the best way to enjoy it is to listen quietly.
The hon. Minister may continue.
Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the message is very clear. The report is non-controversial and the Government has listened.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mukanga: I would like to thank all the hon. Members who have debated in support of the Motion of the Floor as well as those who supported it silently from there chairs. It is my hope and prayer that the Executive will promptly implement the suggestions which have been put forward in this report.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Question put and agreed to. {mospagebreak}
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND LANDS
Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report on the Committee on Agriculture and Lands for the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 26th May, 2011.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?
Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
Interruptions
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
Procedure must be followed irrespective of what or who is on the Floor of the House. Therefore, hon. Members, let us follow the laid-down procedures even at this point.
Mrs Sinyangwe: Your Committee, Madam Speaker, was guided in its work by the terms of reference contained in the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders No. 157(2). In accordance with its mandate, your Committee considered one topical issue: The Management of the Land Development Fund.
Madam, your Committee chose to study the management of the Land Development Fund (LDF) in order to analyse the manner in which it was being disbursed as well as how the local authorities were utilising the funds. Further, your Committee resolved to study whether local authorities had the capacity to manage projects under the LDF.
In order for your Committee to have an in-depth understanding of the effectiveness of the LDF, it undertook tours to selected district councils. In addition, your Committee was aided in its study by a number of relevant stakeholders who submitted detailed written memoranda and oral submissions on the topic under review.
Madam Speaker, your Committee was informed that the LDF came into existence through the enactment of the 1995 Lands Act. The purpose of the fund is to assist city, municipal and district councils with money for opening up new areas for development.
Madam, your Committee learnt that the LDF is vested in the hon. Minister responsible for finance and national planning, but is managed by the hon. Minister responsible for land through the Land Development Fund Committee (LDFC).
Madam Speaker, your Committee was informed that the LDFC is appointed by the hon. Minister responsible for land and consists of the officers stipulated in the Lands Act.
Your Committee was informed that some of the functions of the LDFC include scrutinising and approving proposals on development projects and the disbursement of funds to eligible councils, monitoring the implementation of the approved projects, sensitising and promoting awareness on the availability and utilisation of the LDF.
Madam Speaker, your Committee was informed that there are a number of challenges in the management of the fund. Some of the major challenges highlighted by the stakeholders included the poor quality of applications by some district councils, misapplication and abuse of funds by some district councils, failure by the LDFC to fund projects adequately and failure by local authorities to re-adjust their developmental projects owing to reduced funding.
Madam, your Committee observes from the study that the LDFC has not sufficiently informed the local authorities about the existence of the fund as well as the modalities for accessing the fund. This has resulted, for instance, in only one district council accessing the fund in Luapula Province.
Your Committee further notes that the LDF has been prone to a lot of abuse, misuse and misapplication due to lack of effective monitoring mechanisms. Most district councils visited by your Committee were not aware about the guidelines for implementing projects under the LDF.
Madam Speaker, your Committee observes with great concern that the amounts that the LDFC disburses in most cases to the local authorities are lower than the amounts applied for. Councils have, therefore, had to re-plan and downscale their desired projects so as to be within the reduced amounts. Your Committee found that most local authorities were unable to properly plan for the downscaled projects. They have instead proceeded with their initial plans resulting in them failing to complete their projects.
Madam, your Committee further notes that local authorities are not adequately represented on the LDFC as neither the local authorities nor the Local Government Association of Zambia (LGAZ) have representation on the Committee.
Madam Speaker, your Committee also urges the Government to intensify its sensitisation programmes so that more local authorities can access the LDF.
Madam Speaker, rampant misuse, misapplication and abuse of the fund was observed. Your Committee, thus, recommends that stringent financial controls be introduced to curb the current loop holes. In addition, there is need to effect regular audits in order to address problems as they arise.
Further, your Committee recommends that councils should be sufficiently funded as applied for. This will enable the local authorities to implement their projects in accordance with their proposals. In the event of downscaling allocations, the LDFC must liaise with the affected councils and inform them of the elements of the project that have been removed so that the implementation of the programme is easier.
Madam Speaker, your Committee, observes with concern that most local authorities after opening up areas for development have sold application forms for properties on such areas at exorbitant prices. In addition, funds raised from the sale of application forms have not been used on servicing the areas earmarked for development, but rather on the local authorities’ recurrent daily costs such as stationery, salaries and emoluments.
Your Committee, thus, urges the Government to devise mechanisms that will ensure that there is effective monitoring of the implementation of the fund to ensure the prudent use of the fund and all the other monies generated from the implementation of projects under the LDF.
Your Committee also noted an apparent lack of capacity to implement large scale development projects by some local authorities. This was more visible in local authorities situated in rural areas. In light of the aforesaid, your Committee recommends that councils should employ qualified staff capable of managing large scale projects such as those being undertaken under the LDF. In addition, as a measure for developing capacity in the district councils, the LDFC should inform the unsuccessful applicants about the inadequacies of the rejected project proposals.
Madam Speaker, your Committee observed during the tour that most local authorities have opted to open up high cost residential areas. As a result, local people have been disadvantaged because they cannot afford to purchase high cost plots. In fact, your Committee observes that the people who cannot afford these plots are in the majority. Your Committee recommends that mechanisms be developed so that more low cost areas are developed to enable more people to access the housing areas. Further, the cost of acquiring plots should be made affordable.
Madam Speaker, allow me to conclude by thanking all the stakeholders who submitted written memoranda and subsequently appeared before your Committee to make oral submissions. Your Committee is grateful to them for their useful and important submissions. May I also take this opportunity to thank you for entrusting your Committee with the responsibility of undertaking this study.
Madam Speaker, I would also like to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee during its deliberations.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?
Mr Katuka: Now, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to second the Motion moved by the Chairperson of your Committee on Agriculture and Lands who has covered most of the pertinent issues in the report.
Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion, I will confine my debate to issues arising from your Committee’s local tours. During the period under review, your Committee toured three provinces namely, Central, Luapula and the Copperbelt provinces.
Madam Speaker, your Committee was dismayed at the revelations that some councils accessed funds from the LDF even when they did not have adequate land to offer for development. For instance, when your Committee visited Mpongwe District council, it observed that the LDF disbursed K500 million to the council which was meant for opening up 15 km of the township roads as well as improving the water reticulation system. Unfortunately, the council does not have this amount of land because villages are located within the township that is earmarked for development. In order to make land available and for the council to undertake development through the LDF, villagers have to be relocated and compensated.
Your Committee notes that at the moment, the council does not have money to implement this mammoth task. In this regard, your committee urges the Government, through the Ministry of Lands, to help Mpongwe District Council acquire land from the surrounding State land so that it can have land for development while looking for funds to compensate those who will be displaced.
Your Committee further observes that the Government, through the LDF, disburses lump sums requested by a council without checking whether the council has enough land or was ready to implement the project. This has also contributed to the misapplication and abuse of funds by the councils. In view of the foregoing, your Committee recommends that the LDFC should be going to inspect areas that are earmarked for development before disbursing funds. This will help to curb the rampant abuse of the LDF by councils.
Madam Speaker, your Committee also notes that there is a misunderstanding between the Ndola City Council and the Ministry of Lands over Mitengo Area in Ndola. Your committee learnt that both the Ndola City Council and the Ministry of Lands were allocating plots to applicants in the Mitengo Area which is earmarked for development. As a result, there seems to be no jurisdiction under which the council and the ministry should operate. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to clear this issue so that applicants are not inconvenienced and the project is implemented effectively.
In conclusion, let me take this opportunity to thank you for your guidance. I, further, wish to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the invaluable support they rendered to your Committee during its deliberations.
With these few remarks, I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Captain Moono (Chilanga): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House.
Madam Speaker, I will be very brief in my contribution to the debate on the Motion before us which I fully support. First of all, I want to thank the mover and seconder of the Motion who have adequately covered all issues. Therefore, for me to avoid repeating what has already been said, I will quickly go to issues which I think also need attention.
Madam Speaker, I will restrict myself to part 3 of the report, particularly the issues surrounding restricting none Zambians from accessing our land. As a developing country, the only resource we have in abundance is land. Often when Zambians want to partner with foreign investors, they have no capital to inject in the project in order to come up a workable partnership. If the Government came up with a deliberate step to give land to Zambians, since land has value, it would be as good as giving them money. The foreign investors who want to set up various projects and businesses in Zambia would then find the Zambian partners more viable.
Madam Speaker, currently, the system is biased towards non-Zambians. It is very easy for a foreigner at present to acquire land in Zambia than it is for a Zambian.
Interruptions
Captain Moono: Madam Speaker, most Zambians have been frequenting the Ministry of Lands in order to acquire pieces of land without success, but foreigners are even able to get their title deeds within a week or two.
Madam Speaker, the land being given to these foreigners is usually too big for their businesses such that after two or three months they start to demarcate the same land given to them by the Government free of charge and resell for capital. They then look more intelligent than us, the Zambians, as far as doing business is concerned. This happens whilst we Zambians are left struggling as our files repeatedly go missing at the ministry. When you are there, you will be told to go back on Sunday or Monday and when you go back there, you will be asked what you are looking for …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]
Captain Moono: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was just about to move on from the issue of foreigners owning most of our land. I do not understand why the Government actually deliberately gives land to foreigners. Maybe, it is because most of the people on your right have traces of foreign origin and are actually giving this land to their friends.
Interruptions
Captain Moono: Anything that a government does to advantage its nationals is good. Some countries, like Zimbabwe, that found themselves in situations where big pieces of land which could be settled on were owned by foreigners had to take drastic steps to reverse such situations. Whereas some countries have realised that it is important to protect their nationals, here in Zambia, we are busy dishing out land to foreigners.
Mr Muyanda: Very bad.
Captain Moono: This is not a matter to laugh about. It is very serious because, very soon, the next Government, in the few months to come, will have difficulties to reverse the decisions of the present Government. Whatever our colleagues across do, they should always have the interest of Zambians first.
Mr Speaker, I also want to recommend that there should be a comprehensive land audit to determine the extent of land use in Zambia. A lot of land use has changed from farming to mining, particularly in Lusaka. Some of these mines are doing a lot of harm to our environment. Apart from that, some big chunks of farms in Lusaka and many towns are lying idle while people with resources who want to invest in productive farming are going very far from town where there are no roads. I think it is important that the people who are holding on to big idle chunks of land near Lusaka are told to immediately put it to good use or risk having it repossessed by the Government for redistribution to Zambians.
It is difficult for the upcoming young generation to get land near cities, and yet some foreigners are holding on to this land and cannot share it with Zambians. However, when it comes to voting, the Ruling Party will look for Zambians to vote for it. When it is time to enjoy the national cake or the fruits of voting for the winning political party, the people are abandoned and only foreigners benefit.
Hon. UPND Members: Very bad Government.
Captain Moono: This is a very bad Government indeed.
Mr Speaker, the other issue I want to comment on is about the respective chiefdom boundaries of traditional leaders, especially the 1958 chiefdom boundary maps. There is a lot of infighting among chiefdoms in Zambia and this Government has not come out clearly on which boundaries it recognises at the moment. Sometimes, it is difficult for residents to declare which chiefdom they belong to. If they align themselves to a certain chief, they are rebuked by another chief. Some village residents have been canned and punished traditionally because they are suspected of supporting another chief. Such cases have been brought to the attention of this Government, but no conclusive decision has been drawn yet. I think it is important, as leaders, to ensure that chiefdom boundaries are well-defined so that the conflicts among our chiefs are reduced.
Mr Speaker, …
Mr Mubika: Finally.
Captain Moono: I do not run out of ideas like yourselves who have failed to develop this country.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Captain Moono: Mr Speaker, the other issue which is very close to my heart is that of the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ). This is the engine of the agriculture revolution in Zambia. However, the running of the NCZ, in Kafue, has been highly politicised by that Government. I was an hon. Member of Parliament between 2001 and 2006 and I noticed that the tendency by this Government is to abandon this project and only talk about it when we are near elections.
Interruptions
Captain Moono: I think the people of Kafue should make the NCZ a campaign issue this year. They stand to lose out if they always accept makeshift promises from this Government during elections. Therefore, I think the people of Zambia are losing out on this giant industry because, each year that passes by, there is depreciation of the equipment and eventually the costs of replacing it will be beyond our reach.
Mr Speaker, before I sit down, I would like to touch on the issue of cordon lines that are imposed in order to reduce the spreading of diseases, especially by our cattle. Cattle diseases in Zambia have cost this country billions of revenue. As I am speaking to you, corridor disease, which started in the Southern Province, is, at the moment, in the Central Province. The farmers who are able to instantly slaughter their animals on the farms, sell them for as low as K100,000 per animal in towns. Now, this cannot be left unchecked. This Government needs to be serious about disease control. Apparently, those on your right have been paying lip service to this very serious issue.
Mr Speaker, other countries, such as Botswana, which are rering cattle have even moved away from the outdated technique of cordon lines. Instead, they use transponders for identification.
Now, the cordon lines have failed because …
Hon. Members: Condom.
Laughter
Captain Moono: … their road blocks are fixed and most traders are able to evade them. Furthermore, animals cover a vast area as they graze and to manage them is very difficult. Sometimes, these lines are even destroyed by the people who do business. However, if you use the transponder system, which you just implant in these animals, the challenges being faced can be done away with.
Sir, allow me to simplify what I mean for the sake of the people on your right who seem to be misunderstanding me and hence their insistence on condoms when I am talking about cordon lines.
Laughter
Captain Moono: A transponder is a device which you implant in the stomach of a cow and it does not get digested. It remains there for the rest of the life of the animal. In the event that you bring that animal for slaughter to the abattoirs, you put registration where you will have a detector. That detector electronically will tell you where that animal comes from without even branding and so on and so forth. Those techniques of branding are outdated, primitive and …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Captain Moono: … people do not use them any more.
Mr Muntanga: They only know condoms.
Captain Moono: Mr Speaker, once you are able to detect these animals using the transponder system, you are able to see where the problem is coming from. As such, you are able to note which farmer is not complying with the regulations on animal movement and appropriate punishment can be given.
Mr Muntanga: Yes.
Captain Moono: It is as simple as all that. This is being done in our neighbouring countries such as Namibia and Botswana. However, our Government is still backward as it still insists on branding the animal, inflicting a lot of pain on it and degrading its skin such that you cannot even get good value for it because it would have been wounded.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Wounding animals.
Captain Moono: That is animal cruelty.
Laughter
Captain Moono: In other countries, especially the developed countries like those in Europe, these people can be arrested.
Interruptions
Captain Moono: With these few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, before I call the next person to speak, just give me a minute. I thought that I should direct you a little. We are moving away from the Motion on the Floor. You will recall that the mover of the Motion was very categorical about the fact that the Committee chose to study the management of the LDF in order to analyse the manner in which it was being disbursed. Now, the danger we are posed with is that we may have a cross country debate about the ministries that are involved in this. I just ask that we try as much as we can to confine ourselves to the issues that were raised in the report we are considering.
Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. Let me, from the outset, say that I support your Committee’s report.
Mr Speaker, in order for Zambia to develop, it must use its competitive advantage in every field and one of the competitive advantages is the amount of land that it has. With 750 million hectares, Zambia has enough land to cater for all developments that it needs to work on for its people. Therefore, how we use that land for the benefit of Zambians is the challenge that we have as a country.
Mr Speaker, land is the basis upon which any nation exists and wars have been fought, in the past, because without land you cannot be a nation. Therefore, it is important to understand how we cannot only use land, but also preserve it for the benefit of our citizens and for generations to come. It is, therefore, important to be able to hold this Government or, indeed, any other government to account for the use to which they put the land.
Mr Speaker, a number of questions arise and some of which border on the land development funds. A number of district councils have received funds to the extent of K500 million each. So, it is important for us to question how these district councils have used that money for the benefit of developing more land for use.
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: In certain circumstances and places, this money has been abused. I hear the hon. Reverend saying, “Hear, hear!” However, this fund has not only not been put into good use and abused where the Opposition lead, but also in the MMD run councils, like Mongu. We have to look after our resources.
Mr Speaker, in terms of utilisation of land and its impact on development, let me state one thing. I was dismayed and, indeed, shocked earlier when we were debating issues of development that deals with the schools, especially in the Western Province and not only there, but on the Barotse Plain, to hear a very senior hon. Minister stating that the lack of building schools in that area is as a result of the unavailability of land.
Interruptions
Mr Milupi: Nothing can be further from the truth than that because, from the first time that colonialists stepped in this country, all the way from, if we talk about the Barotse Plain, as I said Muhulwani, schools have been established on the plain itself. Where did the land come from? I can count the number of schools from Silonga coming down to Likapayi, coming down to Nangili, Nakuku itself and on the other side Libonda, Ikatwama, Lealui, Salondo and all the way to Nangoma in Nalolo and beyond. These were schools that were established on basically traditional land.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Member for Luena debating, surely, that debate was in the last one. It has passed. Could you, please, proceed onto the Motion on the Floor?
Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I was just trying to bring back issues which deal with the availability of land for development. To round up on that subject, it is not true for this Government, as regards the Western Province, to state that lack of development in the area is due to lack of land. Land is plentiful. There is nobody in that province, not even the traditional leaders or the villagers, who has ever held on to land when development issues have come to the fore.
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, you are answering to a Motion that has passed. Will you, please, restrict yourself to the Motion on the Floor of the House.
Interruptions
Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance. It is, especially disheartening, when such accusations come from somebody who hails from the Western Province and ought to know better.
Mr Speaker, when we look at the LDF and how it is utilised, we must always ask ourselves whether we have the capacity to absorb the funds that are given and whether the district councils to which we give this money to have the capacity to absorb it. Furthermore, we must ask ourselves whether our district councils have turned themselves into salary generating institutions such that any fund that goes there goes to pay allowances and salaries. It is because of this that in spite of the billions, as reported in your report, that have been given to various district councils, we see very little new land that has been developed for the benefit of the people.
Also, your report has raised issues of distributing land to foreigners. As I said earlier, land is the essence upon which this country depends, but we are seeing thousands upon thousands of hectares given to foreign nationals.
Mr Speaker, as I said, one of the most critical competitive advantages that we have as a nation is the availability of land. Why this Government and the governments before it have failed to transform this competitive advantage for the benefit of the people is beyond comprehension. The 5,000 hectares that have been given to foreigners in the North-Western Province could have been better used as collateral for equity participation of the owners of that land in whatever venture that comes up. To own shares in any venture does not need education. It is time we used the land that we have to empower people so that they can have shares in whatever institutions that come up. Therefore, it is important to know how we utilise that land.
The other question why the LDF was given was to have a lot more land brought to the fore to reduce the cost of land. Since this has not happened, we have a situation where prices of land here in Lusaka and other towns have gone way beyond the reach of the average Zambian. You will find that an acre of land anywhere along the periphery of Lusaka now costs K250 to K300 million in certain cases, way beyond the reach of most Zambians. What is keeping these prices at these exorbitant levels is because of lack of land which is brought about by the inability of this Government; the local government institutions to utilise the funds that were allocated for the purpose of increasing more and more land.
Mr Speaker, if I speak specifically of Mongu District, K500 million was given by the Ministry of Lands to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to open up an area called Kasima. What has happened there? That money was supposed to be for putting up infrastructure so that people can apply for plots and build houses so that the town can extend east wards to a place called Kasima. That money must be audited. I know that there was an audit that was conducted there by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, but we want to see action being taken from that audit, hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. We want to see what action you are taking to those that abused those funds. It is against this backdrop that the people in Mongu still lack land to carry out their developmental projects as well as housing. The whole basis for having these audits is that when queries come up in an audit, and this had nothing to do with the Auditor-General, but an audit carried out by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, is that when an audit unearth certain issues, we wait to see action taken. Firstly, action should be taken to punish those that have abused their offices and, secondly, to carry out corrective measures. Otherwise, this money, which was well meant from the Ministry of Lands, has not yielded the right results.
With that, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this debate.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor. I want to thank the mover and the seconder of the Motion.
Mr Speaker, I will be brief on the issues of land and touch on those dealing with the issues of the report of your Committee on the Action-Taken-Report.
Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to say that if there is any biggest gift which one can have, it is land. Therefore, I want to state that your Committee had disappointments and difficulties in the district councils that it visited. It was told that councils did not have enough land because it had been taken by the nearby villagers and so on and so forth.
Mr Speaker, if there is an area where the Government has failed to manage, it is land. Why do I say so? If you checked the archives to find out about the history of land in this country, you will find that it is very difficult for you to find a map of the soils of this country. It is also difficult to find a map that shows where minerals are found in this country.
Mr Speaker, if you went to Kabwe near the bus station, you would find a place where the archives of all the instruments that were used before independence are kept and see the manner in which they are kept. I think the hon. Minister is not even aware of that. That is where things start going wrong because these instruments are supposed to be taken to the museum.
Mr Speaker, we are not part of, maybe, the galaxy, we are talking about land. So, if there is an office that has changed officers, it is the Office of the Commissioner of Lands in the Ministry of Lands.
Mr Speaker, land is very expensive nowadays and, come December 2011, the people on your right will start lining up at the Ministry of Lands and you will see how difficult it is to get land that has site plans because it will be completely encroached. If you go in the districts, you cannot even know how many title deeds are for one house and that is a fact. Therefore, if we try to hide these things, the funds will not be properly utilised.
The staff from the councils got money to go and survey certain places. Much of it was wasted by the staff that travelled in the districts to go and inspect the land instead of people developing it. At the moment, the Ministry of Lands has huge plans where they have failed to number plots both in districts and municipal councils. It is very difficult to apply for land and get a piece of land.
Mr Speaker, Zambia is privileged in the Northern and Luapula provinces because of very rich soils and abundant water. People have talked about a project of producing olive oil, but nothing has happened. You only want to wait for somebody from outside the country or a white man to tell you that the soil is rich. I hope the hon. Minister is listening to what I am saying.
Ms Lundwe: I am listening.
Mr Beene: The situation is critical. We have plots that cost between K250 and K300 million, to borrow Hon. Milupi’s words. I know that money can buy anything, but how many Zambians have money to buy a plot at K50 million? Please, let us stop the issue of saying we leave it to the private sector.
Mr Speaker, as Zambia, we have to learn from our neighbouring countries. The issue in your report was talking about giving tracts of land to foreigners and Zimbabwe is one such example. In South Africa, this land issue has become a serious one and they want to review it so that they get back tracts of land and give to other people so that even poor people can also benefit. However, if we are just quiet, it will be very difficult to resolve this issue because it affects all of us, whether we are in Government or not.
Mr Matongo: They are going out.
Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, I do not want to make a lot of repetition on this issue. All I am saying is that the Ministry of Lands should redo the audit works as the situation is serious.
Mr Speaker, in your report, other issues related to agriculture draw my attention to the unprecedented bumper harvest which we have heard about in the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) meetings and political statements.
Mr Speaker, since we have a bumper harvest this year, I am asking this Government to reduce the prices of mealie-meal or maize products so that everyone can benefit from this bumper harvest.
Mr Speaker, my constituency is one of those that have a lot of last year’s maize marooned in those plastics and it is rotting because the moisture is too much. In Mbiya Ward, to be very specific, there are no roads where a thirty tonne truck can pass to transport maize. In fact, I have some samples of maize in my vehicle to show the hon. Minister. This is a very serious issue.
I am also aware that there is a programme to give maize to orphans. This is a good programme, but let this programme not be abused by politicians for the purpose of elections. I urge the Government to look into the issue of animal-human conflict particularly in areas like Itezhi-tezhi, Siavonga and the Eastern Province. Elephants have destroyed crops in this area. The Government should consider giving maize to communities that have lost their crops because they are in dire need.
Mr Speaker, the other issue that I want to talk about is with regard to cattle disease. I know that the Government has done a lot in this area. There was too much rain this year. As a result, animals have been affected by disease. I know the Government wants to involve the private sector, but I think people who rear cattle have problems because of outbreaks of diseases. Therefore, I ask Government to do something about this.
Sir, this draws me to the issue of meat marketing, particularly in the Western and Southern provinces. I am aware that there are many companies marketing beef such as Zambeef. I have no problem with this, but let us stop giving excuses by saying that there are diseases and make people fail to sell meat even in towns like Lusaka and only allow those few companies that are monopolising the market.
With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me this opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor. I will be extremely brief. From the outset, I want to state that I support your Committee’s report.
Mr Speaker, let me start just by commenting on one important issue of the LDF. When this fund was introduced, we were all happy that the poor people would now access land because district councils charged exorbitant fees for land. The reason given for this was that people needed to pay more money because the councils were going to use that money to service the areas that were to be given out to the citizenry.
When the Land Development Fund came into effect, we thought that the most appropriate thing to do for councils was to reduce the cost of the plots, but what we are seeing now is the opposite. The fund is money which is drawn from the tax payers meaning, therefore, that every Zambian who buys anything that attracts Value Added Tax (VAT), including the poor of the poorest, contributes to the fund. Despite the fact that people pay exorbitant fees for the plots, the Government has come up with this fund. Why should there be this disparity? I expect that with the introduction of the fund, the cost of plots in all councils would reduce. Today, we see very unprecedented exorbitant amount being paid for land. For instance, in the Lilayi area in Lusaka, where an issue on how land was allocated has come up, a plot costs K120 million. Surely, why should the Lusaka City Council charge K120 million when an average Zambian gets about K700,000 as salary? This simply means that the people that are going to access land will only be foreigners because they have access to financial markets from their countries of origin.
The House may be aware, Mr Speaker, that it is extremely difficult to get a loan of K120 million here in Zambia. Even if one got a loan of K120 million, how is it going to be paid back if the salary is K700,000? Are we saying that this land cannot be accessed by teachers, police officers, nurses and doctors? In fact, not even Members of Parliament can afford to pay for a plot costing K120 million. Where are we going as a country? Does it mean that the land that we are opening up is only for the rich? We all want land in Lusaka, but why should the hon. Ministers of Local Government and Housing and Lands allow a situation where the Lusaka City Council charges K120 million for a plot? Where are the poor people going to get the money to buy the plots from? That is why you find cases like that of Mr Kapoko because people want land and if they cannot raise money genuinely, they are going to steal. So, I urge the hon. Minister to seriously look into this issue. If the councils want to continue charging exorbitant prices, then the Land Development Fund should be cancelled because land is already developed. It has been paid for by the Government. Why should people pay K120 million. In fact, the reason is simple. In some instances, the Government has taken away the revenue base for the councils. As a result, councils are now charging exorbitant fees in the allocation of land as a way of raising funds to pay salaries and meet other expenses. My emphasis is that we should reduce the price of land so that poor people can also afford. If hon. Ministers cannot afford to pay K120 million for a plot, who is going to afford?
Hon. PF Members: Foreigners.
Mr Kambwili: So, do not encourage theft because everybody wants to own land in Lusaka. If they cannot find money through genuine means, they will steal. Let us think of the teachers, nurses and other poor people. In any case, rentals for houses have gone up. People would like to get pieces of land so that they can build houses to avoid paying rentals. How are they going to acquire land? The private sector is selling land at as much as K400 million for a 60 m x 100 m plot here in Lusaka and the Government is quiet. We need to put our house in order and make sure that poor people are provided for in whatever we do.
Sir, I told the councillors at the Luanshya Municipal Council just yesterday before I left for Lusaka that the proposal to increase the price of land must not go through. I urged them not to make the resolution during the meeting. When I called them today, I was told that it went through. If you increase the cost of a plot from K1 million to K4 million in Roan and Mpatamatu where the miners get K1.2 million as salary where do you expect them to get the money to buy plots from? They will just resort to stealing copper. When they steal copper, you will arrest them, but the issue is that they also want land.
I am sure most of you are aware that former Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) houses on the Copperbelt were sold off to the sitting tenants. These tenants cannot move to their places of origin popularly known as Kumishi. They now live in those houses permanently meaning, therefore, that the new employees in the mines will want to build houses. How are they going to build houses if the cost of a plot is K4 million against the K1.2 million that they get? This is a serious matter that we should look into. The hon. Ministers of Local Government and Housing and Lands must quickly convene an emergency meeting to review all the fees being paid in councils for plots.
Mr Speaker, the poor want land. You give K500 million to Mwense Municipal Council, but what do we see? K116 million from the LDF is used to pay salaries. What action are we going to take? If Mwense Municipal Council was a Patriotic Front (PF) run council, today, there would have been commentaries and headlines on the news on this matter.
Hon. Members: It is PF.
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, a further K63 million was diverted from the LDF to the Council Development Account and was meant to be used for the renovation of the council rest house.
I really feel so bad that this money which was well meant is now working against the poor people. We need to reduce the cost of land in all councils if this LDF is to make an impact on the poor people.
With these few words, Sir, I thank you.
Hon. Opposition Member: Walandafye bwino!
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I must declare that I am a member of your Committee, but felt that I should raise a few things. Your report was very categorical on the LDF. It has also raised other issues. The creation of the LDF was good, but we left its control to the councils.
You will note that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is part of the committee that is to control the LDF and the Ministry of Lands, itself, is responsible for that fund. That alone, causes confusion. We found out that in areas such as Mporokoso, the money was drawn by authority from the Ministry of Lands and while a contractor who did not do any job in Mporokoso was paid. Nothing has been done about this matter to date. There is misuse of the LDF. We think that if this fund is intended for developing land, the Ministry of Lands should be responsible for the control and ensuring that this money is properly utilised.
Mr Speaker, it is also important to know that when we give the money to the councils, it is for them to make sure that a particular parcel of land for development is fully funded so that there is proper provision of roads, water and electricity. When we have created roads and connected electricity and water, the people who will be allocated the land will definitely contribute very little. However, there is under funding and councils realise that they need to raise some money for provision of services. You gave K500 million to a council like Kalomo. It opened up an area, but did not have enough money to provide services such as water and electricity. Now, it has to try and raise money.
There is a need for this Government to ensure that councils are properly sensitised on the LDF. Out of the seventy-three councils, only about forty-three have accessed these funds. In Luapula, it is only Mwense you can talk about. When we asked other councils, they were not aware of the fund’s existence. We should make sure that these councils are sensitised. I am telling you about what is happening on the ground.
When we sensitise the councils properly, all councils will be funded and funded properly. Also, when land is developed, surveyed, and water and electricity have been provided and there is a provision for a charge of a fee for the people who need those plots, the interference of politics, again, comes in. In Livingstone, they got money for land development, opened up an area and pegged the plots at K2.5 million. One day, at the visitation of some big politician, they were told not to pay K2.5 million, but K200,000. The people who had paid K2.5 million are being told that they would be refunded by the council. Those who had not paid are now paying K200,000.
When you go to the plots, you will find that no proper funding was given to the council to develop the land. We are causing speculation on land. Once there is available land, and you do not control it properly, there is a rush for that land. That is why the prices are going up.
Mr Speaker, in Lusaka, they are not only looking at the land that has been developed, but any piece of land that is free. Then the first people to develop it are the council staff at that particular council.
The Ministry of Lands should not remain bystanders once they have given out the money. Do not do that because you leave the people to suffer. You have not properly explained to the councils that this money is meant to develop land. They think it is funding as is the case in Mwense.
Mr Speaker, there was a clear understanding in Serenje. The plots developed are very good, but they were not told that if you are going to raise money, let it go back to that developed land. Therefore, any money they made went to other items instead of going back to develop the areas.
Mr Speaker, the LDF is good because it opens up new parcels of lands. The people need land to develop. As long as we do not open up new parcels of land and there is very little land, more and more people will clash and fight for the land.
Mr Speaker, there is a need for the Ministry of Lands to follow up the money and know where it has gone and what has happened to it. Also, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing must be brought in to be part of the fund. You leave out the Ministry of Local Government and Housing that controls the funds and argue that they are two different issues.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: We need to know that, sometimes, we have land developed for agriculture. You have not included that aspect in the LDF. You have left that as money that comes once the Ministry of Finance and National Planning decides to open up one agriculture centre. Where does that money to fully fund construction of roads and electricity come from when the LDF has no support for full land development? You must be able to consolidate the money that you are giving for agricultural land that you are opening up.
Mr Speaker, the other day, the hon. Minister was saying that the councils are the ones charging fees. At the moment, in Serenje, the officers from the Ministry of Lands are there colleting money. I hope the hon. Minister is listening. It is not the council, but your officers who are in Serenje collecting money.
Therefore, Mr Speaker, it is the ministry’s duty to ensure that its responsibility is fully carried out so that we do not have Zambians suffering.
With those remarks, I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Member: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion on the Floor of the House. Like most of the other debaters have indicated, it is quite clear that the issue of land management in this nation remains unattended to seriously.
I will try and be very objective so that, at the end of the day, we try and see the way forward on how land management and, let alone, the LDF can be utilised.
Mr Speaker, I have gone through the report of your Committee and it is quite clear that the linkages between the policy makers and implementers leaves much to be desired. I say so because much as we, as politicians, want to bring about good development, at the end of the day, we are hampered by the civil servants. I think in this House, we tend to hit each other as politicians and not as implementers. I do know that, as politicians, we superintend over these people. When you get into office, you are overwhelmed by policy formulation and the implementers take advantage of that situation.
Mr Speaker, land management has not been abused by politicians per se. Land management has been abused by civil servants. At some stage, civil servants should be able to account for their mistakes. Like everybody else has indicated, the LDF that was created was well-intentioned. It was meant to open up new land in various councils so that our people can be able to access land. This was a very good intention.
Mr Speaker, at the moment, for any council to access that fund from the Ministry of Lands, it must present a proposal indicating of how it wants to develop the land in the area. As a result, most councils have failed to come up with proposals and that is why, currently, there are very few councils that have benefited from this fund. Those that have benefited have not utilised it according to the intended objectives. As such, the policy was formulated and meant for the people, but they have not benefited from it. This is why it is important that we take stock of what has happened regarding land management, especially, regarding the fund. We have to know whether it has worked to the advantage or disadvantage of the people. It is quite surprising to note that they are given money for land development, but also pay salaries and pay for fuel therefrom. I think that is not good.
Sir, it is important that, as a country, when a policy is put in place, we ensure that it is followed to the latter. If civil servants are found wanting, they must be punished so that they begin to respect the policies that are put in place by the Government. Otherwise, the Government shall be blamed day in and out when it is not its fault. We must begin to take action against the people who disregard policy formulation and policy implementation.
Mr Speaker, when you look at the Ministry of Lands, the ones that are able to access this LDF, because of the surveys they are able to make, lump it together and depending on which council applies for it, this money gets back to the Treasury at the end. Therefore, it cannot be accessed by other councils. There must be a clear guideline on how this money must be accessed so that more land is opened up. The cry of most of our people today is to have land, but they cannot have it. Like other debaters have indicated, when foreigners come, it is easy for them to have land because they will acquire it at any price from any person or me who has no ability to develop that land. Price speculation also comes into place. For land management to be effective, it has to be two-way. There has to be input from the policy makers and implementers. It is not sufficient to just leave it to the implementers otherwise we will be doing ourselves a disservice. It is important that when a policy is put in place, it is followed up to ensure that it is taking the route it was intended to take.
Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Minister of Lands (Ms Lundwe): Mr Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to thank hon. Members of your Committee for a well articulated and researched report. I would like to further thank them for bringing out pertinent issues relating to land administration and the LDF management.
Mr Speaker, on the issue of the LDF, I wish to state that the recommendations made by your Committee are very useful. Therefore, my ministry will administer the LDF in such a way that more land is opened up for the Zambians, especially the poor, to benefit.
Mr Speaker, allow me to mention that issues raised in your report will be studied and taken into consideration during the Land Policy formulation.
Mr Speaker, allow me also, to thank Hon. Kambwili for his objective debate. The issue raised by him is of great concern and my ministry will deal with it seriously. I hope hon. Members of Parliament in various councils are able to look at the issue of the LDF and also look at the exorbitant fees that the councils charge. Most of the times, when councils are advised, they always say that the Government is politicising issues but, today, Hon. Kambwili has articulated these issues very well. The councils that are charging exorbitant fees must get a leaf from Hon. Kambwili’s debate.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I will comment briefly on one issue that was raised in your report, particularly, on pages 16 and 17.
Sir, on page 16, there was some issue of the due diligence report on the NCZ. Indeed, this report was submitted to my ministry and, as a Government, we are studying the contents. Once, we have finalised the consultations, we should be able to make decisions based on the report and any other information and chart a way forward.
Mr Speaker, on page 17 of your report, there is the issue of whether the contract that was given to the NCZ, especially in the last farming season, amounting to 20,000 metric tonnes of basal dressing fertiliser, in particular, D-Compound was part of clearing the Government’s debt to the NCZ. I would like to correct that perception right now.
Yes, indeed, in the last farming season, the Government gave a contract of 20,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser production, in particular, D-Compound to the NCZ. This year, we have gone further to give the NCZ a contract to produce 30,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser. This was done after we looked at its performance in the last farming season and also its capacity in terms of equipment. This money is meant for it to pay its salaries and creditors. Therefore, the Government is helping it to address the issues of the backlog of payments.
Lastly, Sir, I would like to correct an issue raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilanga, who indicated, in his debate, that the Government is politicising the issue of NCZ, with particular reference to contracts. I want to correct this impression by stating that as Government, we know how strategic this industry is. If we did not know, we would not have given NCZ 20,000 metric tonnes last year and 30,000 metric tonnes this year. There is nothing political about what we have done. This Government is simply doing the correct things under the circumstances.
Mr Speaker, NCZ will be supported. As I indicated earlier, it will be given contracts which will assist in its payment of salaries and creditors. I would like to assure the people in Kafue and those under NCZ that this has nothing to do with politics. This is simply what the Government is doing to assist its people, and at the same time, ensure that production levels as far as maize is concerned go up as already indicated by hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-tezhi when he said that the unprecedented bumper harvest should be sustained.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Sinyangwe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Members of this House for supporting your Committee’s report.
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
ADJOURNMENT
The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
Question put and agreed to.
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The House adjourned at 1933 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 8th June, 2011.