Debates- Wednesday, 22nd June, 2011

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Wednesday, 22nd June, 2011

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to inform the hon. Members of this august House of the progress made in the construction of police houses.

Mr Speaker, Members of the House will recall that Government embarked on the construction of 500 police houses during the Fifth National Development Plan implementation period. During this phase, four sites were identified, namely: Ndola on the Copperbelt; Kasama in Northern Province; Livingstone in Southern province; and Chipata in Eastern province. Sixty houses were to be constructed in Kasama, ninety-two in Chipata, sixty-eight in Livingstone and 280 on the Copperbelt.

Mr Speaker, I am pleased to inform the house that the Government will soon conclude this project. Hon. Members of the House will recall that His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia has since officially commissioned 280 houses in Ndola, sixty-eight in Livingstone, ninety-two in Chipata and will soon hand over the last sixty houses in Kasama.

Mr Speaker, the Government realises that other parts of the country are equally in need of staff accommodation and other facilities for our men and women in uniform for guaranteed safety of people as well as property.

Mr Speaker, this Government is deeply concerned with the state of existing infrastructure used by our men and women in uniform, be it office or residential accommodation. These are people who ensure that Zambia continues to enjoy the peace and security for which it is renowned. Consequently, the Government remains resolute in its commitment to ensuring that our men and women in uniform work and live in an environment that promotes hard work. In this regard, the Government will continue to rehabilitate and upgrade existing infrastructure, and construct more houses the Police, Prisons Service, Immigration Department and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC).

Mr Speaker, the Government will in 2011 commence the construction of staff houses in addition to a drug rehabilitation centre earmarked for construction here in Lusaka. Other structures to be constructed this year include office complexes to be headquarters for both the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Immigration Department.

Mr Speaker, there are more projects that the Government is currently working on. I am sure that the hon. Members of Parliament for Luwingu and Kalabo constituencies will agree with me that the Government has made tremendous progress in the construction of Luwingu and Kalabo prisons.

Mr Speaker, significant progress has also been made in the construction of seven border controls namely; Kamapanda and Kambimba in Mwinilunga District, Kilwa Island and Chipungu in Chiyengi District, Namafulo in Sinazongwe District, Sindamisale in Chadiza District, Chikalawa in Petauke District, Vubwi in Chadiza District Kanyala in Nakonde District and Imusho in Sesheke District.

Mr Speaker, allow me to conclude by appealing to the hon. Members of this House whose constituencies are benefiting, and those who will benefit later, to ensure that they assist in monitoring and mobilising local support for the projects. We should all support the efforts of this Government because we are voted for to take development to our constituents in particular and the nation at large. We are also called upon to applaud and congratulate the Government for such efforts.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I did not quite follow the hon. Minister. May I know the backlog of houses? How many houses are required to clear the backlog for the men and women in uniform throughout the country?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, we are in the process of building 500 houses and a number of them have already been commissioned by the President. Only sixty in Kasama are yet to be commissioned. This will complete the 500 houses earmarked for this year.

As stated already, it is the intention of this Government to roll out to other areas so that they can equally benefit from this project.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr C. K. B. Banda SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, realising that a number of provinces have not benefited so far, may I know which provinces will benefit in the next roll-out of this particular programme, bearing in mind that Lundazi may not even benefit. Perhaps the hon. Minister could clear the air with regard to whether Lundazi will benefit from this project.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is the intention of the Government to roll-out to many other places. It is difficult at the moment to state categorically which areas will benefit, but our intention is to cover almost all the provinces, Lundazi included, even though it is a district and not a province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, while appreciating the steps taken by the Government to build police houses, may I learn from the hon. Minister when a modern police station will be built in Mpika as has been promised since 2007.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, sometimes, these promises the Government makes are indicative of the intentions to build, but sometimes the resource basket makes it difficult to fulfil all these pledges.  Our intention is to eventually get to Mpika and many other areas that require such facilities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I have realised that new districts like Kazungula and Mufumbwe have not benefited from this programme, yet these are the ones that need both residential and office accommodation more than the other districts that have benefited. When are they going to be on the list?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is difficult to say whether the areas that have been covered require these facilities less than the areas she has indicated. Nevertheless, our intention is to ensure that all these areas have these facilities. As and when the financial situation improves, we will roll out to all those areas, including Kazungula.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the terrible state of police houses in Mongu has been mentioned several times in the reports of this Parliament. Could the hon. Minister indicate why he has seen it necessary to start these programmes elsewhere when in Western Province only a prison in Kalabo will be built?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has to make a distinction between construction of new houses and rehabilitation of existing ones. This speech was bordered on the construction of new houses. As regards the issue he has raised, I wish to state that we will get there. I might not be in a position to indicate exactly when we will get there, but it is the intention of this Government to rehabilitate all these facilities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister right, he said this year they have a programme to construct an office complex for the Ministry of Home Affairs and other institutions he mentioned. What is the rationale of constructing offices for personnel who are already accommodated, instead of channelling that money to construct accommodation for police officers in other districts as mentioned?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, at the moment there are people who have office accommodation scattered about in the district because some of the buildings do not belong to the Ministry of Home Affairs. It is our intention to have one facility to accommodate all officers in the ministry. We will definitely attend to other areas, as and when, resources become available.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to indicate where they are going to build the new headquarters for the Ministry of Home Affairs?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is somewhere near Ministry of Foreign Affairs. There is some space there and that is the area we are looking at.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-Tezhi): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister outline the programme of maintenance of these houses so that history does not repeat itself, whereby Government fails to maintain its infrastructure.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, at the moment our concern is the construction of the houses. I do not think that we can think of rehabilitating these houses even before we build them. Therefore, we will concentrate on constructing the houses for now. When time comes for them to be rehabilitated, we will do so.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, have the contractors constructing these houses been paid or is money from this budget being used for new construction works?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, when we made provision to build these houses, money was made available. Sir, you will appreciate that sometimes you can make plans to build houses, but the money is not released there and then. These projects were budgeted for.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Tembo (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, in 2009, the Government indicated that it was going to construct about twenty-one houses for police officers in Nyimba. May I know from the hon. Minister when Government will do that because the district has been omitted from this project.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I have mentioned that there will be other districts that will benefit. Nyimba has not been mentioned, but it could be one of them. We will come to that.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, out of these 500 houses, could the hon. Minister indicate how many are earmarked for Chimwemwe since he has only got two days left in office?


Mr Speaker: Order!

Last week, I guided the House that the office of the Minister of Home Affairs or any office has no time limit. There are no two days left. The office continues…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … especially after the elections.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Speaker: Oh yes!


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I cannot say it better than you have.


Mr Lungu: Thank you, very much.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!




550. Mr Lumba (Solwezi Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives:

(a) When an Agricultural Extension Officer will be sent to Kainamfumu Resettlement Scheme in Solwezi District; and

(b) when the Kainamfumu community would start benefiting from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mbewe): Mr Speaker, at the moment, there is no Agricultural Extension Officer manning the camp as there is no staff house to accommodate one. However, the Chafukuma Block Extension Officer provides agricultural extension services to the resettlement scheme. The ministry is ready to provide an agricultural extension officer as soon as funds are made available to construct a house.

Mr Speaker, Kainamfumu Agricultural Camp has been benefiting from the Farmer Input Support Programme for some time including the 2010/2011 Farming Season when four farmer organisations, namely, Zata Uwame Farmer Group, New Creation Farmer Group, Kainamfumu Multipurpose Co-operative Society and Kosaya Multipurpose Co-operative Society benefited from the programme.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, the distance between Chafukuma and Kainamfumu is more than 20 km and there is no road. I would like to find out when the house will be built since that community needs a person with technical know-how to help them.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, building of houses is an on-going programme. We are rehabilitating and, at the same time, constructing houses for camp officers. We have also equipped our camp extension officers with motorbikes for them to reach the other camps no matter how far they maybe.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


551. Mr Lumba asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) When the runway at Solwezi Airport would be extended;

(b) whether any families would be affected by the extension and, if so, how many; and

(c) whether the affected families would be compensated and, if so, how.

The Deputy Minister of Communication and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, I am pleased to inform the House that a new 3 km runway at Solwezi Airport is already under construction by First Quantum Mining Company through a public private partnership (PPP).

Mr Speaker, over the years, many illegal settlers have heavily encroached on Solwezi Airport. Three hundred families will be affected by the runway extension as a result of the encroachment. Additionally, the runway has been relocated a few degrees from its original position to avoid the squatters. However, it still is not far enough from squatters to completely remove the safety risk.

Mr Speaker, all the families occupying the airport area are squatters. They will have to be resettled elsewhere.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: Order! I have said it before that this Chamber was constructed in a manner that makes it possible for sound to be transmitted. That is why we are able, if we so wish, to communicate without microphones. Those loud discussions are heard around the Chamber. If you wish to consult, do so in very low voices.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that about 300 families will be affected. Since construction has already started, may he be specific on how these families will be moved and where to.

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, we have identified the problem and it is being studied carefully because there are many factors that have to be considered before any resettlement is done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, may I find out to what standard these airports are being constructed.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we are a member of the International Air Transport Association (IATA). We follow international standards and that is why this particular runway is 3 km so that it can accommodate big aircraft.

I thank you, Sir.


552. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) When the government would construct houses for police officers at Mufumbwe Boma;

(b) when more police officers would be sent to Mufumbwe; and

(c) When police posts would be established at Kalengwa and Mushima in Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Taima): Mr Speaker, the Government will construct houses for police officers at Mufumbwe Boma in 2012 in line with the Infrastructure Development Plan for the Ministry of Home Affairs.

Mr Speaker, additional police officers will be sent to Mufumbwe once houses are built for them and the establishment is expanded.

Mr Speaker, police posts will be established at Kalengwa and Mushima in Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency during the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) period once office and personnel accommodation is secured. Additionally, the Government is ready to partner with the community, including willing mining companies, to establish police posts in these areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, while we appreciate the construction of houses elsewhere, is the hon. Minister aware that since Independence, not a single house has been constructed in Mufumbwe, forcing police officers to live in makeshift houses situated 3 km from the police station? If he is aware of this, is it not prudent for him to consider Mufumbwe in the next allocation?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, that is precisely why we are going to build houses in Mufumbwe in accordance with the SNDP. The question of houses not having been built since 1964 in the area does not arise because we already have plans to do so.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, I wish to know why this Government never considered allocating some of the 500 houses that the hon. Minister talked about in his ministerial statement to Mufumbwe which is a new district.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, there are many places that require the houses which are as needy as Mufumbwe. The Government has already earmarked Mufumbwe for the construction of houses.

I thank you, Sir.


553. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Vice President and Minister of Justice:

(a) Which companies were engaged by the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) to print ballot papers for:
(i) The 2006 General elections and

(ii) The 2008 Presidential By-election;

(b) how much money was spent on printing the ballot papers for the elections above; and

(c) how much in total was spent on conducting the elections.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Speaker, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) engaged Universal Printing Company Limited of South Africa to print ballot papers for the 2006 General Elections and 2008 Presidential By-election.

Mr Speaker, the total expenditure for printing the ballot papers was K7,484,119,200 for the General elections in 2006 and K9,269,653,150 for the 2008 Presidential By-election. The total amount used for conducting the 2006 General elections was K209,760,934,000 while K218,738,730,000…


Mr Speaker: Order! The House is in session.

Mr Munkombwe: … was spent on the 2008 Presidential By-election.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, of the money spent on printing ballot papers for the two elections, how much came from our co-operating partners?

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, the question on the Order Paper was very specific.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Munkombwe: It did not ask about where the money came from, but how much was spent by the Government through the ECZ on the mentioned exercise. So, we gave a very specific answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Quality! Hear, hear!

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned colossal amounts of money spent on printing ballot papers. Why has the Government not taken interest in investing in machinery so that ballot papers are printed in this country?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, we have been procuring equipment and preparing ourselves to print ballot papers. However, we have not reached a standard that would eliminate controversy as has been the case in previous elections. We think we have not reached a level yet whereby we can satisfy all stakeholders. Otherwise we have been preparing for this. A lot of equipment has been purchased at Government Printers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, may I learn from His Honour the Vice-President and Minster of Justice which company has been awarded the contract of printing ballot papers for this year’s elections.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I do not have those details. It may be the same company. However, we have to source that information from the ECZ.

I thank you Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, may I know whether ballot papers are printed according to the exact number of registered voters or there are extras.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, the ECZ prints a number of ballot papers that can enable it to conduct elections efficiently and credibly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Representatives of all political parties have been involved in this process. Documentaries have been shown before in which political party representatives go to South Africa and the airport to receive and inspect the ballot papers. Therefore, this is a very transparent process and everyone knows what is involved in it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Beene.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): My question has been answered, thank you.

Mr Speaker: He is satisfied.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, I wish to find out from the Vice-President and Minister of Justice when the company that will print…


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simuusa: …ballot papers for this year’s elections will be appointed and when the printing of ballot papers will begin.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, I am not privy to that information. We have an independent electoral commission that looks into those issues.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: It seems everybody is happy.

Mr Shakafuswa stood up.

Mr Speaker: If the hon. Member for Katuba is not happy, he might ask a question.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, what complicated security features are on ballot paper to necessitate its printing outside Zambia? To me it appears to be just a simple piece of paper that just needs a photograph. It can be printed at Government Printers.

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, we have had the experience of running elections in this country. In 2001, we printed ballot papers at Government Printers. This led to a lot of controversy. Some political party representatives were sleeping at Government Printers…


The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: …because of all sorts of suspicions. Therefore, we have to build capacity in the ECZ so that when we print ballot papers locally, people will be satisfied with the standards that we will provide.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


554. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Health why the K300 million given by the Irish Aid between 2008 and 2009 for construction of doctors’ houses in Chilubi had not yet been released by the Northern Province Administration.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, the K300 million given by the Irish Aid between 2008 and 2009 meant for the construction of a doctor’s house in Chilubi has not yet been released by the Northern Province Administration because Irish Aid did not give a ‘No Objection Consent’ to award the contract to the selected contractor. Further, the donor has since advised that the funds be redirected towards the procurement of medical equipment in support of reproductive health. In the meantime, the Government, through the Northern Provincial Administration, has set aside funds to construct a doctor’s house in Chilubi District and the tendering process is in progress.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


555. Mr Simuusa asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) When the review of benefits payable to the pensioners under the Workers Compensation Fund would be completed; and

(b) what the lowest and highest payable amounts would be on completion of the review exercise.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, the review of compensation benefits payable under the Workers Compensation Act no. 10 of 1999 is already in process and substantial progress has been made to this effect.

Mr Speaker, the proposed amendments which will improve the benefits structure and amounts payable have already been tabled before the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC). Currently, the Government is finalising an amendment Bill for presentation before this House.

Mr Speaker, this legislative work is expected to be concluded by December 31, 2011, while the comprehensive review process will be completed by June 30, 2012.

Sir, the current highest payable amount under the Workers Compensation Act is K500,000 while the lowest is K300,000. The lower amount is an old pension awarded in 1992 based on a monthly salary of K600,000. Although such old pensions may be subjected to various increments over the years, they remain meaningless. Affected pensioners are encouraged to totally commute their pensions for a lump sum payment.

Mr Speaker, the exact amounts that will be payable after the comprehensive review process is concluded will only be determined once the consultative and review process is completed by June, 2012.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, has said that the highest amount payable is currently K500,000 while the lowest is K300,000. I wish to find out from him why, currently, there are pensioners, the majority of them, in fact, getting on average between K5,000 and K10,000. Could he clarify what is happening to these people.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, the answer we have given is the information that is available at the Worker’s Compensation Fund Control Board. The issues that the hon. Member may be asking about could be other benefits relating to payments to these former employees due to them, for example, as a result of accidents while on duty.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government is happy about the payments he has mentioned. If not, why is it that the consultative and review process will only be completed in June next year?

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, we have stated that the reason we have taken steps to review the amounts payable is precisely that the Government sees a need to do so. However, we had to have a consultative process that involves the Government, employers and employees. That part has been completed and the process is now at the legislative stage.

Sir, there are issues that have to be put in order by the Ministry of Justice. This is expected to be complete by the end of this year. When that is done, the first sitting of this House will look at these amendments. We estimate that it will take us up to June. That is the reason for the seeming delay.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister confirm that it is, indeed, a mockery and an insult to the accident victims to be paid as low as K5,000 and K10,000. May we know the lowest and highest amounts in terms of accident victims.

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, I have already said that the reason for this review is that the Government feels that it is necessary to review the low amounts. However, the question the hon. Member is asking is one I cannot give an answer to just off the cuff. If he wanted to know the specific amounts he would have asked earlier so that we could have researched the matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I wish to learn from the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security why these already very low amounts are being paid in instalments. Would he not encourage that they are paid in lump sums so that they make sense?

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, we have said that these amounts were awarded as far back as 1992 and they may have made sense then. However, what we are having is a comprehensive programme that will also address other issues like indexing them to inflation rates. We are trying to review a comprehensive programme to improve people’s incomes now and the future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, while we are reviewing the payable amounts, are we also reviewing the conditions of the victims receiving these amounts because sometimes it takes a very long time for a victim to be paid compensation?

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, that is precisely what I mean when I say that we are reviewing comprehensively. We are looking at all these inadequacies being experienced so that we can have a better way of delivering services to our people.

I thank you, Sir.


556. Mr Chisala asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice how much money was spent on the orientation workshops for District Commissioners in the Northern Province in 2010.

The Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Speaker, K48, 810,000 was spent on the orientation of District Commissioners (DCs) in the Northern Province in June, 2010.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, K48, 810,000 is a lot of money. May I know whether the amount catered for all the DCs in the twelve districts of the province.

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, some notices, I assume, were given. If anybody deliberately chose to miss, what is the Government expected to do?

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kambwili: Iwe ka mudala.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, the Deputy Minister is doing very well.


Mr Matongo: However, these courses have been conducted around the country, but in some districts, and I have it for a fact, the budgeted amounts were overrun. I think that is a question Hon. Chisala is asking. They were overrun through allowances, transport claims and the rest of …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Matongo: Could you serve us with an answer in that regard, please.

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, I did not open a Pandora’s Box. The question was specific. It was on money spent in the Northern Province, not in Choma or the Southern Province as a whole.


I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


557. Mr Lumba asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) When police road blocks or check points would be modernised; and

(b) why the traffic police do not give adequate speed limit signage when they set up speed traps, especially on the highways.

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, road blocks or check points will be modernised when funds are available during the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) period.

Sir, traffic police officers only mount speed trap operations after speed limit signage. The police are not mandated to put speed limit signage on the roads as this is a preserve of the local authorities and the Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA). The police only enforce the law by ensuring that the speed limit is observed by motorists.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if these road blocks are meant to protect motorists or they are just a fundraising venture to beef up the Treasury.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, these are meant to protect Zambians, both motorists and pedestrians, who use roads. In other words, they are meant to protect even the person asking the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it has been accepted by the Government that it is safe to allow a police officer who has mounted a speed trap to rush onto the road towards an approaching high speeding vehicle as is the practice in this country. Have you allowed it as a Government? If so, is it safe?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is not safe and we advise officers not to do that because it could endanger their lives. It is not Government policy to encourage them to do that. We also advise motorists to observe speed limits. However, what we have realised is that sometimes motorists do not observe these signage and, hence, the police trying to put up speed traps to ensure that they do. I wish that, sooner or later, we will have advanced technology to be able to tell at a distance whether a particular motorist is observing the speed limit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, while I appreciate the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister, I still wish to know when the Government will introduce speed traps that will have cameras to capture over-speeding vehicles instead of the officers rushing on to the road to stop them thereby putting their lives at risk?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, we will do exactly what the hon. Member wants us to do as soon as we acquire the appropriate technology.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, while welcoming the hon. Minister’s statement that the Government will acquire the necessary technology, I would like to find out whether he has considered talking to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on the need to have part of the admission of guilt fines the police collect, which is a lot of money, used to upgrade and modernise equipment for police officers.

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I will take that as an advisory statement and bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning so that we see how far we can go.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what we will do with police officers who run onto the road to stop over-speeding vehicles. I am saying this because it is very common. Should we start arresting them or what?


Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I have stated that we advise officers not to do what Hon. Malama is talking about because it could endanger their lives. However, we equally expect motorists to be considerate. If they find some officer rushing on to the road, they should simply apply their brakes so that they do not harm that officer.

I thank you, Sir.



558. Mr Lumba asked the Minister of Health:

(a) When the Government would construct staff houses at Mapopo Health Centre in Solwezi;

(b) when the centre would start offering health services to the public; and

(c) when the Government would build a health centre at Kainamfumu Resettlement Scheme in Solwezi District.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a staff house at Mapopo Health Centre in Solwezi, in 2012. As such, the project will be included in the 2012 Ministry of Health Infrastructure Operational Plan.

Mr Speaker, Mapopo Health Centre will be open to the public after construction of the staff house is completed.

Sir, construction of a health centre at Kainamfumu Resettlement Scheme has been planned and budgeted for this year under the provincial administration. As soon as funds are released to the resettlement, works will commence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, the health centre itself was completed last year and a teacher at Mapopo Primary School is using it as his residence. Would the hon. Minister please be specific about when people will start benefiting from that building before it collapses?

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, we are not aware that our facility has been occupied by a teacher. We will follow it up and find out the exact position so that we can take the necessary steps to safeguard the facility.

Sir, this facility will open in 2012. Hon. Member, the construction of a health facility goes together with a staff house to accommodate the health worker. This staff house is not in place at the moment, but will be included in the 2012 Operational Plan. When that is done we shall open this facility. This is the position given, and it is very clear, hon. Member.

I thank you, Sir.


559. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Justice:

(a) Why the Government had established the Salaries Review Commission; and

(b) when the commission would conclude its work and submit a report to the Government.

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, the Government established the Salaries Review Commission to review the salaries, salary structures and conditions in the Zambia Public Service (the Civil Service, the Teaching Service, the Defence and Security Services, the National Assembly, Commissions and other Statutory Bodies) and make recommendations on necessary changes.

Sir, the commission is expected to conclude its work and submit a report to the Government by 30th June, 2011.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, why has the commission delayed completion of its work?

The Vice-President and Minister of Justice: Mr Speaker, there is no delay.

Thank you, Sir.


560. Mr D. Mwila asked the Ministry of Finance and National Planning:

(a) How much money, in the form of pension, was owed to former Zambia  Telecommunications Company (Zamtel) employees by the Zambia State Insurance Company (ZSIC) as of December, 2010;

(b) how many former employees were affected by the non-payment of their pension by the ZSIC; and

(c) when former Zamtel employees would be paid their dues.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms C. M. Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, Zambia State Insurance Corporation Limited (ZSIC) owed former employees of Zambia Telecommunications Company a total amount of K175.717 billion as at December, 2010.

Sir, 2,787 former employees were affected by the non-payment of their pensions by ZSIC.

Mr Speaker, the former Zamtel employees will be paid their dues over a period of twelve months according to the agreement executed by the previous Board of Trustees of Zamtel Staff Pension Scheme, Zamtel Union Members and the Fund Manager, ZSIC Life Limited.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, why did the Government make a decision to pay the former Zamtel employees after the protest?

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, the agreement was that the payments be made over a period of twelve months. I am not aware of the protest.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lumba: Mr Speaker, are the former employees going to be paid the interest accruing on the K175.717 billion?

Ms C. M. Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, the payments will be paid in twelve months according to the agreement.

I thank you, Sir.


561. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) What business plan for the future of Ntumbachushi Falls in Luapula Province was;

(b) why the falls has been neglected by the Government in the past; and

(c) what the cost of recapitalising the falls to make them attractive for tourism would be.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, environment and Natural Resources (Mr Mwangala): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the National Heritage Conservation Commission, has developed a management plan which will guide the development of the Ntumbachushi Falls Heritage Site and other sites in the area by providing basic tourism infrastructure such as a visitors’ information centre, and ablution and camping facilities. The Government has also prepared an investment proposal for the area which will be sold to private investors.

Mr Speaker, the Ntumbachushi Falls in Luapula Province have not been neglected as alleged by the hon. Member. To the contrary, Ntumbachushi Falls, like other heritage sites in the country, have not been developed due to lack of resources.

Sir, the Government will require over K2 billion to put up basic infrastructure in the area.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated, that the Government has developed a plan to recapitalise the falls. Could he specify when the project will start?

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, all our heritage sites have management plans that guide their development. The hon. Deputy Minister has indicated that a minimum of K2 billion is required for the ministry to put up basic infrastructure. At the moment, we do not have the resources to do that work.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, while we have the management plan, the bridge used to cross over to the other side has collapsed. This does not need a lot of money. What is the ministry doing to repair the bridge so that people can cross to the other side to see the other part of the falls?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, our country has more than sixty waterfalls and all these are very attractive. The challenge we have is to look for enough money to develop the basic infrastructure so that the country can realise the necessary revenue from these tourism sites.

Sir, let me also take this opportunity to inform the House that the National Heritage and Conservation Commission does advertise for lease of land around these heritage sites. I urge hon. Members who live around these attractions to take advantage of the opportunities to develop tourism facilities around them.

Mr Speaker, the Government has often talked about the enabling environment that has been created for the private sector to contribute to poverty reduction. Unfortunately, the indigenous people of this country choose to complain instead of taking advantage of the opportunities to create wealth for themselves. When foreigners come and develop infrastructure at these sites, they start complaining that the Government is only creating platforms for foreign investors. You, too, can be investors. Go and develop infrastructure around Ntumbachushi Falls.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I recall receiving figures in this House from the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to the effect that there were fewer than a thousand visitors a year to Ntumbachushi. Given the distance between Ntumbachushi and any other tourism attractions, does the ministry not believe that if some sort of infrastructure is put up there, it would actually be viable as a tourism attraction and a business for Zambia?

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, for any site to attract tourists, there must be infrastructure, especially accommodation facilities. Again, I urge Zambians, who are the owners of this country, to take advantage of this enabling environment created by this able and hardworking Government to become entrepreneurs in the tourism sector. Indeed, Ntumbachushi can be a viable venture.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.




The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa) (on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2008) Bill.

The objective of the Bill is to approve excess expenditure aggregating K258, 846,398, 283.

I thank you, Sir.

The following Bill was read the first time:

The Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2008) Bill

Second Reading on Thursday, 23rd June, 2011.




The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do place on record its profound regret at the death of Dr Frederick Titus Jacob Chiluba, Second President of the Republic of Zambia together with its appreciation of his distinguished and patriotic service to this country, and that deepest sympathies and condolences of the National Assembly be conveyed to his family.

Mr Speaker, in the first place, I thank you for allowing me to move this Motion which has afforded the House an opportunity to say a few words about the late Dr Frederick Titus Jacob Chiluba whose death is, indeed, a great loss to the country.

Sir, the late Dr Frederick Titus Jacob Chiluba was born on 30th April, 1943 to Mr Titus Chiluba Nkonde and Mrs Diana Kaimba in Wusakile Township, Kitwe, on the Copperbelt. He had his early education in Kitwe before going to Kawambwa Secondary School. After becoming President, Doctor Chiluba combined his presidential duties with private studies and gained a Master’s Degree from Warwick University in the United Kingdom. Later, the University of Malawi conferred on him an Honorary Degree of Doctor of Philosophy in recognition of his efforts in promoting peace in the Southern African Region.

The late Dr Chiluba became a trade unionist and held the position of Chairman- General of the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU), an umbrella body for all trade unions in the country from 1974 to 1991. This gave impetus to his political career which saw him become actively involved with the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD).

The late Dr Chiluba helped in the formation of the MMD and was elected its President at its first convention in 1991. He was later elected President of the Republic of Zambia on 31st October, 1991. In 1996, he was re-elected Republican President for the final five-year term which ended in 2001.

Mr Speaker, the late Dr F. J. T.  Chiluba’s ascendancy to political power as President of Zambia spurred numerous reforms which transformed the country’s economic outlook. Among the changes was the introduction of the privatisation programme, the house empowerment scheme, rehabilitation of roads and the introduction of a reliable passenger transport system.

Sir, under the privatisation policy, Dr Chiluba did away with loss-making public companies. Privatisation was aimed at revamping parastatals through foreign and local capital investment and creating an environment where the Government and the private sector would complement each other in the running of the economy.

Mr Speaker, the late former President is also to be remembered for the role he played in empowering citizens with houses. He established the Benny Mwiinga Housing Complex, named after the late former Minister of Local Government and Housing, situated on the Great East Road adjacent to the Chainama Hills Hospital, popularly known as the Presidential Housing Initiative (PHI).

Sir, the transport sector in the country equally underwent a metamorphosis with Dr Chiluba liberalising the passenger transport sub-sector and doing away with the monopoly of the then public passenger transport company, the United Bus Company of Zambia (UBZ). This move resulted in many private passenger transport operators coming on board to cushion transport difficulties that had previously beset Zambia.

Sir, the late Dr Chiluba eliminated prohibitive import and other duties on passenger transport vehicles with a view to allowing more players in the sector.

Mr Speaker, during his term of office as Republican President, the late Dr Chiluba introduced key pieces of legislation that include the following:

(a) The Privatisation Act No. 21 of 1992;

(b) the Securities Act No. 38 of 1993;

(c) the Parliamentary and Ministerial Code of Conduct Act, No. 35 of 1994;

(d) the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 18 of 1996;

(e) the Water Supply and Sanitation Act, No. 28 of 1997;

(f) the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act, No. 12 of 1999; and

(g) the Prohibition and Prevention of Money Laundering Act, No. 14 of 2001.

Mr Speaker, furthermore, the late President will be remembered for his contribution to the development of the media and promotion of freedom of speech. It was during his reign that many private radio and television stations were licensed, including those opposed to his Government.

Sir, in international relations, the late Dr Chiluba was at the centre of resolving the conflict in the neighbouring countries of Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Angola. His efforts led to the signing, in Lusaka, of an agreement on 10th July, 1999 by six heads of state who were party to the resolution of the conflict in the DRC. This culminated in a ceasefire agreement between the Government and the rebel forces in that coumtry.

Sir, the former President will also be remembered for his contribution to the peace process in Angola, which resulted in the historic Angola Accord, signed in Lusaka between President Jose Eduardo Dos Santos and the then Uniao Nacional pela Independencia Total de Angola (UNITA) leader, the late Dr Jonas Savimbi, in November, 1994. It is also to be noted that it was during the reign of the late Dr Chiluba that Zambia started taking part in United Nations peacekeeping operations. Zambian security personnel were sent to Mozambique, Rwanda, Angola, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Bosnia and the Sudan for peacekeeping missions. 
Mr Speaker, he was married to Mrs Vera Tembo Chiluba with whom he had nine children. After he left the presidency, he divorced and married his present widow, Mrs Regina Chiluba.

Sir, the late Dr Chiluba died on Saturday, 18th June, 2011 at his home in Kabulonga, Lusaka. His death is a loss, not only to his family, relatives and friends, but also to the nation as a whole. May his soul rest in eternal peace.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice has ably summarised this Motion and, therefore, my contribution will be brief.

Sir, today the nation should stand and give credit to His Excellency, the late Dr Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba, for the achievements that we are see today. When we talked about structural adjustment, many people did not know what that really was. The Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP) was an economic path which had taken us a long time to achieve. This, compounded by the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Completion Point, set the standard and the platform for Zambia’s economy to take off. In this vein, I say that the late Dr Chiluba played a big role in the achievements that Zambia is making today. He laid the foundation and the late President Mwanawasa saw the country to the HIPC Completion Point which led to debts being cancelled and Zambia’s balance sheet becoming clean. I think whoever assumed the driving seat took over from the work of these two great sons of this land. I, therefore, feel credit has to be given to them and not any of us. The take-off of the economy happened because of the contributions of the two former Presidents.

Mr Speaker, as we mourn Dr Chiluba, we should do so with the respect that a head of state deserves. It is incumbent upon us, be it as individuals or in our groupings, to respect the dead.  As a nation, people are going to judge us on how serious we are in the way we respect the dead. We should not belittle the funeral of someone who sat in the Office of President and turn it into a mockery. All of us in this House can go and mourn him because he was President for all Zambians. There are those who loved him and those who did not; those who worked with him and those who did not, but the bottom line is that he was President for us all. No one should stop anyone from attending his funeral. The late Dr Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba was President of the Republic of Zambia and, as we mourn him, we should take that into consideration. If we have elections, it is either we win or lose. Therefore, the one who takes over the reigns of power as President becomes President for everybody. Therefore, let us give him the respect that he deserves.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Mr Sikota, SC. (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to this valedictory Motion. I convey my sympathies to the widow and family of the late Second President, his friends and, indeed, the entire nation of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the late Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba was somebody, as said by the various speakers before me, a President for all Zambians. His place in the history is of this country is assured. No one can take away the chapters he will fill in our history texts. Unfortunately, no one will be able to poetically put together the prose in those historical texts in quite the same manner that the late FJT, as he was popularly known, could turn a phrase.

Mr Speaker, he is a man who stood tall. As His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice has already stated, his contribution to trade unionism made him stand tall in the trade union movement. Likewise, in politics, he stood tall. His contribution to the multipartism currently practised in the country is something that no one can ignore. His contribution to media diversity is equally something no one can ignore. He could move a crowd like no other person could.

Mr Speaker, in the spiritual realm he also stood tall. He could speak behind a pulpit, and is the one who declared this country a Christian nation. He was not ashamed to wear his religion on his sleeve.

In the realm of economics, again, he stood tall. We are aware of the role he bravely played in the privatisation process. One had to be determined to see that process through.

Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Justice has already referred to the pivotal role he played in the transport sector. In terms of encouraging small-scale entrepreneurs, again, he was pivotal. He brought a sense of pride to our marketeers and brought to them the dignity that they deserved. Prior to that, marketeers were looked down upon. After him, they got their rightful place in society. 
Mr Speaker, in terms of peoples’ empowerment, again, he stood tall. We all know that he ensured that mealie-meal prices were brought down so that the poorest of the poor could afford our staple food. There is also the Housing Empowerment Scheme that he is renowned for. He had a heart for the downtrodden. It is no wonder that many people referred to him as one of us.

Mr Speaker, in terms of jurisprudence, again, he stood tall. There are many constitutional law cases that litter our law reports in which he features centrally. Therefore, when we talk about the jurisprudence of this country, we would not be able to give a full account without mentioning the name of the late Second President.

Mr Speaker, the late President is somebody who held no grudges. I say so because, in some of those cases that I have referred to, I was on the other side, prosecuting those cases such as the election petition of 1996. In spite of having a long fought-out petition in which I was on the other side, after the petition, he invited me to his home and I was able to sit with him and have some tea and snacks with him. That is a true example of a great person. We were even able to laugh about some of the highlights of the election petition case.

Mr Speaker, although the deceased’s health was failing, he always had a smile. He bore his illness in a dignified and stoic fashion. He did not whine about it. Perhaps, this is the reason some unkind cynics, heartlessly, even suggested that he was not ill, but play-acting. Indicative of his fighting spirit is the fact that until the very last few hours of his life, he worked and was concerned with the affairs of the nation.

Mr Speaker, I can only hope that those who were so insensitive in their remarks on the late Second President’s infirmity will now reflect on how hurtful their remarks were and now moderate what they say about him to allow his soul to rest in peace.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this solemn debate.

It is difficult for me to find words that can adequately express my feelings on this very sad occasion when we place on record the condolences of this House to the late President’s family, and also show appreciation for his dedicated service to the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, Dr Chiluba’s leadership and influence on Zambia and its people will be remembered for a long time in this country. His legacy to Zambia and its people will last because of the following:

(i) He was fearless;

(ii) he was very charismatic and endowed with great oratory power;

(iii) he was a champion of democracy;

(iv) he believed in press freedom;

(v) he restructured the Zambian society in terms of ownership, resulting in a changed landscape in this country;

(vi) he was patient and exhibited leadership even under trying circumstances; and lastly

(vii) he was a strong believer in God.

Mr Speaker, I will give an example of what I mean by saying he was fearless. In the mid 1970s and 1980s, the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government, under one party State, was extremely powerful and tolerated little political criticism and dissenting views. During that period, UNIP was mulilo, uwaikatako wapya.


Dr Machungwa: This means that the ruling party was fire and if anyone dared to do anything that upset it, he or she would get burnt.

Sir, Dr Chiluba was one of the few leaders who stood to criticise the Government. I remember that on more than one occasion he was invited to join the Government as a Cabinet Minister and later as a Member of the Central Committee, but his belief that Zambia had to take a different political and economic path caused him to decline the offers.

Mr Speaker, the late was a charismatic leader endowed with great oratory power. His linguistic abilities, whether in English or his mother tongue, were just simply phenomenal. When he spoke, he mesmerised.

Mr Speaker, as a Cabinet Minister, I had the chance to attend several meetings of Heads of State in the region and it was a pleasure to hear the late President speak. Similarly, in 1993, when Zambia lost its entire national football team and officials off the coast of Gabon, I recall how he moved people on the day of burial at the Independence Stadium, which was filled to capacity. The late President stood up to speak, his voice choking with emotion and simply brought the entire stadium down. Everybody wailed. He was that kind of speaker.

Sir, Dr Chiluba also championed multipartism and freedom of expression in this country because he strongly believed in them. Sadly, some sections of the press abused this freedom to try and demonise him and denigrate his achievements. Some of these people continued to show such colossal hatred that even with his passing, they still write malevolent and malicious editorials in their tabloids on him. This is certainly unacceptable and I hope that they will learn in time that a time like this is not for continuing to denigrate the departed.

Mr Speaker, Dr Chiluba’s support for press freedom was very strong. I recall that at one time after a Cabinet meeting, my two colleagues and I were talking to him and expressing our concern about abuse of press freedom in some sections of the media. The man turned to us and laughed, saying that the media is the fourth estate and stakeholders. He expressed his confidence that the media would mature their practice in time. There was nothing we could say after that. The President simply believed in press freedom.

Sir, one of the most fundamental restructuring of the Zambian society in economic terms was the empowerment programme. Hon. Members will recall that when the colonial masters ruled this country, Africans or Zambians were regarded as migrant workers in their own country. They came from their home villages to work on the mines and lived in a mine house, or a house owned by the employer, government, local government or parastatal. When they retired, they returned to the village. At independence, this situation led to an increase in the number of what I would call ‘Zambia compounds’, which were shanty towns coming up when people retired and did not go back to the village. This went on for quite some time.

Mr Speaker, although a few indigenous people were able to build or buy houses in the urban areas or towns, they were very few. However, when the empowerment programme was started, government and parastatal houses were sold to sitting tenants. The situation was turned around.

Sir, hon. Members will recall that most of our people could not have afforded to buy these houses at economic or market prices. However, the President directed that the prices be reduced to enable Zambians to buy. Sitting tenants in Matero and other places were even able to buy these houses at as low as K10,000. Sir, this action has changed the mindset of our people and you can see that everybody is building everywhere. This is one of the lasting legacies of the man we are talking about. Everybody now appreciates owning property. Obviously, this has changed the economic set up of our country forever.

Mr Speaker, at the time when this was…

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I had just finished emphasising the fact that as a result of the empowerment programme of President Chiluba, the economic setup of our country changed.

Sir, at the time this programme was being carried out, a number of people condemned it as mere politicking. However, President Chiluba was undaunted and the programme went ahead. Today, many Zambians are proud owners of real estate and many are yearning to do so. That has changed the status of our people.

Another important point, Mr Speaker, which was characteristic of our late President, was that he was very patient. He was not one given to making precipitous decisions on the spur of the moment. Rather, he would wait to make a considered decision. He showed his patience even as he was being dragged to various courts of law after he left office. When he spoke, he remained calm and presidential.

Finally, Sir, President Chiluba was a strong believer in God, a very committed Christian and a peacemaker. Thanks to him Zambia is a Christian Nation that shall continue to be so.

At this juncture, Mr Speaker, I conclude by hoping and praying that the Lord our God will continue to bless Zambia and its people and rest the soul of Dr Chiluba in eternal peace.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Cacine!

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, allow me to join my colleagues who have conveyed sympathies to the Chiluba Family before me.

In the first place, Sir, I wish to state that there are lessons that we can learn out of someone’s death. Personally, I have learnt many lessons in many cases.

Mr Speaker, I would like to state that every death that happens is a bad death and, since nobody ever gets used to death, we usually want to mourn those who die with dignity. Even the wildest offenders are mourned with dignity. Even mad people are mourned with dignity and, therefore, it is important as an African not to poke the dead. It is important as Zambians to mourn a person who ruled us for ten years in the most dignified manner.

Mr Speaker, I would now like to make one request that, this year being an election one, we should conduct our elections in a non-violent manner. Therefore, I would like to remind our colleagues in the MMD that during the reign of Dr Chiluba we never saw the violence during elections that we see today. In the reign of Dr Chiluba, there was no violence except the Chawama saga and we all know what happened.


Mr Syakalima: I can say, there was not so much violence compared to the spate of violence that we see today and I would like to urge my colleagues that in unison we should abhor violence because the man who fought for the re-introduction of the multi-party system also knew that violence does not pay in politics. We should campaign in a clean manner so that we mourn Dr Chiluba in a dignified way.

One other thing I have learnt is that, as Zambians, when a colleague is at their lowest in life, we tend to run away from them. It is important that when people are at their lowest, we must give them love so that we encourage them in their spirit, no matter what we think about them. I remember that when Dr Chiluba had fallen out of favour with the system, many of our colleagues ran away from him. When he needed other people’s love, they ran away from him.

Mr Kambwili: Like ba V.J.

Mr Syakalima: I am saying this because at the time he had fallen out of favour, my brother Sakwiba Sikota and I went to see him when he was sick and we saw the joy he felt even though he knew that we had said many things about him.

Mr Speaker, people like Dr Machungwa were the only few brothers who were always with him. As a psychologist, I know that when you have an effective social network, you boost the lives of people and their immune system is strengthened. It is very sad that most of the people who were close to him ran away when he fell out of favour. These are the lessons that I have learnt in my short life.

Mr Speaker, even when Dr Kaunda was under arrest, and many people feared to go and see him, some of us took a bold decision of going through the paramilitary just to see him because we knew that as a human being, he had a family. After Dr Chiluba was in favour with the system again, the people who had ran away from him trooped back. These are hard lessons. Show me your faith, I will show you love. We must do what is humanly possible. It does not really matter and as I have already said, beyond politics, there are families and we must always go to those who are at their lowest. That is what God teaches us. God will call you one day and say, “When I was sick, you never visited me; when I was in prison, you never visited me; when I was hungry, you never fed me; I was thirsty, you denied me water”. Then you will answer, “Did we see you oh Lord?” and the Lord will answer, “When you neglected Chiluba at that time, you were pinching me.” 

Mr Speaker, against all the odds, even when Fred Mmembe was incarcerated recently over some press release, again, because he is a human being, some of us took time to go and visit him regardless of everything else. Today, I may have a quarrel with you but if, tomorrow, I hear that you are sick, I will be the first one to come and see you. That is humanity.

Mr Kambwili: Ebuntubo boyi!

Mr Syakalima: This is what we have lacked over the years because we want to hide in the shells of politics. We should not be doing that. There are great lessons to learn and only God knows the sacred heart of man. We can never be judgemental here on earth about Dr Chiluba. We should leave it to God. All we can do is to pray for his family and relatives who have remained behind. We should also pray for the robbers who are in prison so that they find restitution and repentance. I could have gone on but what I have said gives us a lesson to look back and see whether we were of help to Dr Chiluba. Those of you who did what you could, including praying for him, you escorted him to his grave and God will bless you.

Finally, Sir, I wish to say, “May His Soul Rest in Eternal Peace and God give us grace.”

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add a voice to the debate on this day when we are paying condolences to the late former Republican President, Dr Fredrick Chiluba.

Mr Speaker, I came into contact with Dr Chiluba as a young Education Television teacher in 1975. I was doing television programmes and, as such, needed to talk to many people on different types of lessons that I was having. Dr Chiluba was always a pleasant person to talk to and each time I called him, he was there willing to give me an interview, even to give me some skills on how to conduct an interview as I was just beginning my career.

Mr Speaker, as he was a union leader, I called him to speak about workers, unemployment and other things. He was also very charismatic and that earned him many friends. Each time I went to speak to him, I would feel like going back to speak to him again and again because he was patient, humble and good to speak to.

Sir, during the formation of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), I remember that I was the only one with a Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) vehicle at the party’s convention and everybody looked at me with suspicion. However, I knew that I had a job to do concerning my educational programmes and, therefore, needed to be at that function because it marked the end of the one party-system. So, I went in as a loner and spoke to Hon. V. J. Mwaanga, who was a gentleman as usual and he allowed me to enter the premises of the gathering. When I got inside, Hon. V. J. Mwaanga left and people started to look at me with suspicion again.

Mr Speaker, I remember Dr Chiluba coming to me and saying, “Bamayo, you are here for your educational programmes?” I said, “Yes”. So, he called me and introduced me to friends who allowed me to work and I did what I wanted to do. I think that showed that he was a leader who was not scared of a shadow like others who get very suspicious and do wrong things in the process. I still remember that I continued doing my programmes here in Lusaka when he was President. Those who watched my programmes saw that I brought out many issues concerning inefficiencies in public institutions, especially in the education system. I filmed very filthy and dilapidated schools and showcased many other inadequacies.

Sir, some hon. Ministers called me and cautioned me for doing that. However, I remember the President once came on television and said, “Leave her alone because if she does not show me what is wrong in our education system, I will not be able to know.” I think those who remember my programmes saw that I showed how things changed in our education system from bad to better and then to where they were when we had improved. Hence, I think you needed a very courageous President who was never scared of people saying that he was not doing everything to change a bad situation to allow me to do what I was doing.

Mr Speaker, most importantly, I remember Dr Chiluba’s association with the Church. He helped to build churches and, as a result, we have many churches in Zambia. We can see that there is a lot of Christianity in this country, which helps us to remain in peace even when other people would want to agitate violence. We are Christians and we pray. You can even tell by the long hours he used to spend praying. For instance, I have had the privilege of praying with him many times when he came to Bible Gospel Church in Africa (BIGOCA) in Matero. Whenever I saw him, I could see that he had a forgiving heart. He always had a smile on his face despite what he went through. It is not easy to go through what he went through and still remain calm, meet people and talk to them in a pleasant manner.

Sir, may I end by saying that we should learn to appreciate people when they are alive. I can see we have appreciated Dr Chiluba after his death. How many wrong things did people talk about him? It is like he never even led this country for ten years. There is nobody who is perfect. We have our own weaknesses, but we should learn to appreciate others. Even when we criticise, if we go overboard, then people will not look at us kindly. The worst thing is for you not to make peace with your brother until they die. I think you will remain haunted for the rest of your life.

So, Mr Speaker, this is a lesson we must learn. We should deal with people, our friends and everybody else, peacefully. We can criticise with love. I have learnt a very big lesson and urge the family of Dr Chiluba and all Zambians that we should continue being Christians and united so that we can shame the devil.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I wish to debate on this Motion that seeks to place on record this House’s profound regret on the death of the Second Republican President, and appreciation of his distinguished and patriotic service to this country and the people of Zambia, and that the deepest sympathies and condolences of the National Assembly be conveyed to his family.

Mr Speaker, indeed we are debating this Motion today as this House and the nation mourns the death of a gallant son of this country. Former President Chiluba, like everybody else has said, was a champion of democracy. He was a man who fought hard to make sure that I and everybody else in this country can have the freedom to choose our leaders. He fought hard to ensure that through free speech, we can criticise and contribute to the development of this country. The late President Chiluba was a man who ensured that this country respected human rights. We never knew in this country before he became President that human rights existed. President Chiluba came and made sure that he gave these freedoms to people for them to understand that they have certain rights that the Government is obliged to respect.

Mr Speaker, we are mourning as a nation. With so much that has been said already, I do not want to be repetitive. However, I know that his influence on democratisation did not end here. When President Chiluba stood up to fight for democracy in this country, our neighbours in Malawi saw that it was possible for them to do so too. They copied from how Dr Chiluba and other people that he worked with did it. I think the entire Central and Southern Africa stood up and believed that it was possible to bring democracy to this part of the world.

Mr Speaker, the Vice-President said so much about what this man did and I wish to stress that it is true we saw the mushrooming of radio and television stations in this country because of that great man. We are now able to have phone-in programmes and say anything that we like because he stood for free speech and made sure that it happened without censorship. So many people today just wake up and apply for licences to open radio and television stations and they are granted these licences. This is what the late President championed.

Mr Speaker, we heard so much about the liberalisation of the economy that he championed. However, what I would like to focus on is the fact that the late President made Zambians believe that they do not have to be just looking for employment from others. He made Zambians believe that they can employ themselves by doing business. He instilled the spirit of entrepreneurship in Zambians.

    Mr Speaker, we saw families start to grow vegetables in their backyards, cultivate food for themselves and start tuntemba. We also saw people developing the spirit of entrepreneurship because the late former President made us not to rely on the Government to keep spoon-feeding us. He taught us that we do not have to just wake up in the morning and start looking for jobs because we can also employ ourselves and create jobs for others. What he did for us has continued to help us in this country. It has gone a long way in making people believe in themselves and know that they can realise their full potential.

Mr Speaker, I know it was so difficult to manage the transition from a system in which we depended on the Government to do everything for us to this situation in which we are now, where we have our own companies. This is the legacy of the late former President. I know that many people who have employed themselves now appreciate what the late President did.

Mr Speaker, so much has been said about peace. Dr Chiluba brought peace in Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). So much has been said about the housing empowerment scheme that even the present Government has continued to implement it. That was initiated by him. The influence of President Chiluba went beyond this country’s borders.

Mr Speaker, the late President also introduced the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in this country, a programme that many countries have come here to copy. Countries like Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania learnt that there was the CDF in this country and went to implement it in their countries. It was all started by the Government of the late President Fredrick Chiluba. This is his legacy.

Mr Speaker, President Chiluba did not only declare Zambia a Christian nation. He went ahead and opened diplomatic ties with Israel, a country believed by Christians to be the Holy Land; a country believed to be the birth place of Jesus. It had no diplomatic ties with this country for a long time until Dr Fredrick Chiluba became President and reopened diplomatic relations. Indeed, President Chiluba will be remembered for all these good things that he did. Like the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone said, he never kept grudges against people that might have challenged him in many ways. He appointed the late President Mwanawasa to be his successor. He did not even mind that at some point President Mwanawasa challenged him for the party presidency in the MMD. He forgot all that and appointed him his successor. President Chiluba has taught us to forgive others. He also taught us to work hard and gave us the entrepreneurship spirit in this country. May his soul rest in peace.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Molobeka (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this emotive Motion. His Honour the Vice-President and the other hon. Members who have spoken before me have said all there was to say. However, because of the importance of this Motion, it is right that certain issues are emphasised.

Mr Speaker, indeed, this is an emotive time and it is difficult for me to find a befitting word to describe Dr Chiluba. Besides attending the many meetings and rallies that were addressed by this great leader prior to the 1991 General Elections, I came into personal contact with him in 1993 at State House. In 1991, the late Senior Chief Mwata Kazembe and my husband, who are relatives to the former late President had a meeting with Dr Chiluba, who was then Chairperson for Mobilisation in the MMD and discussed my candidature for Kawambwa. He advised us that we needed to give an opportunity to uncle Musonda because I was still young and that I would be able to contest in subsequent elections. In 1993, the late Mwata and my husband again took me to State House because Hon. Musonda had indicated then that he was not going to re-contest the seat. We had a very fruitful meeting in which he advised me on how to proceed. I followed that guidance until I was elected Member of Parliament for Kawambwa in 1996. 

Sir, from that time to his death, we have been in touch and have enjoyed a very good relationship with Dr Chiluba’s family. We stood by him in the seven difficult years that he attended court trials. We had some challenges along the way, but we overcame them as a family.

Mr Speaker, Dr Chiluba exposed me as a young female Zambian to politics and administration by appointing me a deputy minister, the youngest then. That exposure has enabled me to be a better leader and face big challenges with confidence. My abilities cannot be doubted now.

Mr Speaker, I get surprised when some people say he did nothing during his tenure of office. Probably, some people were not in Zambia during his rule.  It will not be possible for me or any hon. Member of Parliament in this House to itemise all the good things that this great man did as Chairman-General in the Zambia Congress of Trade Union (ZCTU) or as President for ten years.

Sir, the house empowerment initiative, a big project he introduced has made Zambians proud landlords. The freedom of speech hon. Members have talked about became a reality during his time although it has been abused by some private media organisations. Private radio stations have mushroomed in each province. This is because of the good policies of Dr Chiluba.

Mr Speaker, I have been watching different television channels in the last few days and I have seen people talk about the good things that Dr Chiluba did.

Sir, let me now talk about the transport sector. Anybody can travel throughout the country within a day without any difficulties. I have travelled to Kawambwa to attend Council meetings, leaving Lusaka in the morning and travelling back by 16: 00 hours. I would then be in the House without even Mr Speaker knowing that I had travelled all the way from Kawambwa.

Mr Speaker, most of the outspoken non-governmental organisations (NGOs) all came up during Dr. Chiluba’s reign and so was the introduction of cellular phones. You may wish to know that when we brought the issue of cellular phones before Cabinet, some of the known senior ministers in his Government, because they did not understand the new technology, questioned how a small phone without a cable could enable someone to communicate. I call these laggards. Dr Chiluba was quick to defend the innovation because he was a quick learner. He was an early majority in terms of technology adoption and quickly understood the mechanisms of a cellular phone, so, he defended it. Today, the people that criticised and resisted heavily hold more than four cellular phones in their hands, which facility they sometimes do not even use. The list of his accomplishments is endless and the fruits we now see resulted from the firm foundation that was laid by him.

Mr Speaker, I remember at the rally at the Kafue Round About in 1991 Dr Chiluba shouted: “Are you ready, as Zambians, to sacrifice?” We all replied in the affirmative. Indeed, as a nation, we sacrificed.

The Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP) was rough, but Dr Chiluba never gave up. The Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) completion point was achieved because Zambians sacrificed. It is, therefore, sad that some people harbour so much hatred for the former President that they cannot see anything good in all he did. They have gone further and trivialised his death.

Dr Chiluba was not a saint, just like all of us here. To err is human and we have all made mistakes. Dr Chiluba was President of this great country for ten years. He contributed to its economic growth and to many good things that the country should be proud of. No one will be able to erase his achievements in the ten years of his presidency, including those years he served in the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU).

Lastly, Mr Speaker, some hon. Members from Luapula Province met the late former President on Friday at his Kabulonga residence. We had a very good afternoon, little realising that it would be our last with him. He was always a father who guided and supported people. When we were leaving, he escorted us to the car park and as we bade farewell, we shook hands with him.

A few hours later, a few minutes after midnight, I received a phone call that this great man had passed on. I was confused because I thought that the cause of his death might have been an accident because when we were with him the whole afternoon we did not notice that he was unwell. He looked well and jovial as we talked and laughed throughout the afternoon.

Mr Speaker, may the soul of this great man from Luapula Province, who served Zambians for ten years, rest in eternal peace.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs. Chitika-Molobeka wept.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, if we had courage to write a book today on political developments in Zambia, I would inevitably devote more than two chapters to the solid works accomplished by the late former President, Dr Chiluba. Dr Chiluba was, unlike many politicians, someone who always stayed close to the cadres. As a result, they found him user-friendly. He was President for all people. The same cannot be said about other presidents because they are monsters. You have to think twice even just to talk to them. He was a completely different breed of president.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC: Dr Chiluba did not harbour ill-feelings towards other politicians, even those who did not believe in the biblical saying, “Love thy neighbour as thou lovest thyself.” People who had dined with him deserted him immediately he left State House. Some who had been his advisors, biting his ear daily, turned into monsters who daily spoke ill of him.

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: What hypocrisy! Even in his death, they still have courage to tell lies about Dr Chiluba. What politicians are we? “Love thy neighbour as thou lovest thyself.” We need politics of integrity; politics where we can give credit where it is due.

Hon. Member: Tell them!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I think that some people here who served in Dr Chiluba’s Government should be thankful because they were not material for the positions that they were appointed to.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: This is borne by the fact that they have distanced themselves from the decisions they were party to. The very economic programmes which Chiluba stood for are being criticised daily, yet some of the people criticising them were key ministers and architects of those policies. What hypocrisy!

Mr Speaker, may I just remind Zambians, because most of us have short memories, that once upon a time you could go to a shop and not find even Fanta or Coca Cola because shortages were the order of the day. It was not until Chiluba slammed his Government that drastic measures to correct the economic situation were taken, and I know those that were going to Kasane in Botswana to buy Coca Cola smiled. However, when some of them were dropped from their positions, they forgot that it was Dr Chiluba who ended the shortages that were rampant in this country. You could hardly find toothpaste or bath soaps in shops. How can you not remember a person like that? Do unto others as you would love them to do unto you.

Sir, some of us also know that we had multipartism before the introduction of the one-party system of government. However, the United National Independence Party (UNIP), in its wisdom, introduced one party participatory democracy. I am proud to say that Dr Chiluba was one, among the many, who spearheaded the reintroduction of multiparty democracy in this country. Today, we have flourishing opposition parties, yet some of them have forgotten that had it not been for Dr Chiluba, they would not be there. How can you not remember a man who did this country such a wonderful thing? We mourn Dr Chiluba because he was a good leader.

Mr Speaker, regarding the transport sector, we had the United Company Bus of Zambia (UBZ), but if you wanted to go to Mwinilunga you would, at times, spend as many as five days at the bus station waiting for transport. However, a deliberate policy by Chiluba’s Government led to the flourishing of the transport sector to the extent that most Zambians started owning minibuses. If that was not good for Zambians, who was it good for?

Mr Speaker, those of us who remember the UNIP era will recall that detentions of political opponents were the order of the day. Curfews were introduced left, right and centre. That was a different regime, but no sooner had the late Second President’s Government come into power than these came to an end. We now enjoy our liberty. How can you forget a man who restored your liberties? During the UNIP Era, the police had power to detain anyone for fourteen days without giving any reason because they were not obliged by law to do so. All these things ended with the coming of Dr Chiluba’s Government.

Mr Speaker, on privatisation, all of us know that during the UNIP era, the Government was heavily involved in business, including baking bread through the Supa Loaf Baking Enterprise. We all know that most of these parastatals contributed little to the tax basket of this country because they were agencies to which we sent cadres who had become politically irrelevant. Parastatals had provincial political secretaries and district governors. All these were drawing salaries for doing party work.

Sir, in liberalising the economy, the Chiluba Government rightly saw it fit to come up with a vibrant legal reform programme because you cannot privatise companies without putting a legal framework in place. As His Honour the Vice-President rightly pointed out, that was a legal reform that was carried out excellently. I am proud to say that I was involved in that exercise that led to successful privatisation. Having privatised the economy, we saw investors coming into this country. We can now boast of mining companies operating in the North-Western Province. What Zambians should ask themselves is: Was there no copper in the North-Western Province in 1964?

Hon. Opposition Member: There was.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Did God give us copper only after Chiluba became President of Zambia?

Hon. Opposition Member: No.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, the man had a vision for this country. Unless there is a vision, this country cannot be developed. You can talk and criticise others everyday, but bear in mind that there are always four fingers reminding you that you are not the best after all.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: My advice to fellow politicians who take pleasure in criticising and pointing fingers at others is that they always remember that they themselves are no better than the one they are pointing at. You are better off appreciating the contribution of others.

Hon. PF Member interjected.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, young hon. Members of Parliament who are in the habit of heckling must always be ignored because their minds are small.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C.K. B. Banda, SC.: Mr Speaker, let me also warn those who see nothing good in others, as can be judged from the running commentaries they make, that it is an indictment on them. They should not think that people are excited by such.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add a few remarks to the debate on this very important Motion.

Mr Speaker, death is not an occasion for recrimination, but a time when those that survive, whether they were relations or friends, have time to reflect not only on the life of the deceased, but also on their own lives. I want to take this opportunity to debate this Motion on four points. I feel that, at a time like this, it is appropriate that we speak from our hearts so that we are open and, through that, achieve closure to the subject. I will not use copious notes because I wish to speak from my heart.

Mr Speaker, let us look at the life of the late Second Republican President, Dr Chiluba from four points. The first that comes to mind is to remind all Zambians that the late former President came from a very humble background. I think that his childhood history indicates that he came from a very humble background. Indeed, his educational qualification also attests to this fact. It is, therefore, inspirational that a person of this humble background could rise in our nation to the highest position in the land- that of Head of State. This inspires all of us to believe that it is possible to aspire and reach the highest levels in this country.

Mr Speaker, the late was a man with not only a humble background, but also, of humble physical stature as attested by his height.

Sir, let us look now at the next level, the leadership he provided to trade unionism in this country. I think that the seventeen years in which he was Chairperson-General of the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU) were, indeed, inspirational. Many people in this country, not only those who were in the labour movement, but even those who were in management positions and excluded from membership of the labour movement, there were times, and I can attest to that, when they could call upon this man when the situation so demanded. He led the trade union movement at a time when we had a regime that did not tolerate any form of competition for power. It was a difficult time and many people chose the easy way by staying away from representing the disadvantaged. He, however, stood up for the rights of workers. I think it was during his time as Chairperson-General that the country’s trade unions were most vibrant.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi:  It is for this reason that I want to touch the next level, the reintroduction of multiparty democracy in this country.

Mr Speaker, what happens in the history of states is that when you have dictatorships, most individuals want to look after themselves and not raise their heads above the water, lest they be seen. So, it was during the one-party State in which we saw the propensity of human nature to accumulate power. The instruments of power were emphasised compared to those of the normative elements of society. It is only those that were very brave and understood the suffering of the people who rose against an established state in 1990.

Mr Speaker, in 1990, Dr Chiluba accepted an invitation from the forerunners and those that put together the original thought for multi-party democracy for the MMD. He joined them in the struggle that in the initial stages was very difficult. Many people were afraid of what the instruments of State power would do to them, but he was not. Together with others, some of whom are still in this House, such as Hon. V. J. Mwaanga, he led the fight for the reintroduction of multi-party democracy under the chairmanship of the late Mr Arthur Wina.

Mr Speaker, it is because of having won that fight in 1991 and reintroduced multipartism into this country that we sit in this Parliament representing various political parties. This is the essence of democracy. It is also the reason I can stand here today, not only as hon. Member of Parliament, but as president of the Alliance for Democracy and Development (ADD).

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Let us not forget the little things because they are the ones that keep the State in motion.

Mr Speaker, as we move on, in terms of the policies that he helped formulate as President of this country, many of our colleagues who worked with him have ably demonstrated his contribution to many areas of human endeavour and our economy.

Mr Speaker, we can differ on political lines, but I want this nation to move from differing on personal levels when you are in politics to differing on ideologies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: That is what is necessary. Let our political parties be founded on ideologies. When we do that, we shall rise above petty differences founded on personalities, regions and tribes.

Mr Speaker, it is on this basis that some of us might have differed with him on ideology because the MMD became a party, in terms of the political spectrum, on the far right. However, some of the policies that were introduced brought many good things such as shortages of commodities coming to an end.

Sir, in terms of transport, I can recall that as a school boy coming to David Kaunda Technical School, it used to take us three days to travel from Mongu to Lusaka and vice-versa, especially in the rainy season. We used to spend nights at the old Kamwala Bus Station waiting for buses. This ended when the transport sector was liberalised. As my colleagues have said, it was easy and continues to be easy for people to travel.

Mr Speaker, even as we eulogise the former President, let us also remember, as Hon. Chitika has said, that to err is human. I said at the funeral house that God himself knows that all human beings, as long as they are on this earth, are sinners. Only one human being was ever sinless and this was our Lord Jesus Christ when he took the form of a human being. That is why the Bible says, “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” It is with that in mind that even when we look at the mistakes or perceived mistakes of the late President, we must consider them lessons that will move this nation into the future.

Mr Speaker, above all, death in the African or human sense is not an occasion when we quarrel or look at the bad side of a human being. It is unZambian, unAfrican and inhuman to do so. Wherever we go, when a death occurs, even among families that are tearing themselves apart because of certain difficulties, it is time for reconciliation. Let us look at the death of the former President and the difficulties that we have in this nation as an opportunity to reconcile one with another. It is for this reason that I will not dwell on whatever is perceived to be the negative side of the former President.

Mr Speaker, knowing him as we did, as other people have said, he welcomed and was friendly to all. Even as we mourn, please, let us leave the politics out. Let all those who want to express their condolences and show respect to him have an opportunity to do so. As for those that want to stay away, I ask them that they join us to bring about reconciliation.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, may the soul of Dr Frederick Chiluba rest in peace.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to add a few words on the Motion ably moved by His Honour the Vice-President and Learned Minister of Justice that this House do place on record its profound regret at the death of Dr Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba, Second President of the Republic of Zambia, together with its appreciation of his distinguished and patriotic service to this country and the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the history of Zambia can never be complete without the name of Dr Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba. As has been stated by many colleagues and His Honour the Vice-President, during his service, he exhibited exemplary leadership.

Sir, I came to know about Dr Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba as my Commander in Chief while serving in the Defence Force Medical Services. I remember vividly that it was during this time that I was, as many others, privileged to receive, by his hand, the Honour of Grand Commander of Distinguished Service Division I.

Mr Speaker, during that time, I was also privileged to serve as Executive Director of Ndola Central Hospital, which is the second largest hospital in the country. I remember many times the late President taking a stroll into the hospital in the late evenings, just as I did, before retiring for the night. We would meet and even go further to console patients and encourage health workers that cared for them. He would assure the medical workers that he would do everything possible to provide the tools they needed to care for patients.

Mr Speaker, I remember, the late Second Republican President as a true democrat because he consented to my contesting the Mumbwa by-election in 2000 even though I came from a medical profession. Indeed, he had faith in the human race and cared for the less privileged. We recall that he set a vendors’ desk at State House to accord this sector of our economy its due recognition.

Mr Speaker, today the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is still pursuing the realisation of his vision that vending is an economic giant in which we must bring fairness for the players to conduct their business. As has been stated, he set up a desk to look at religious affairs. This was another indication of the deep religious inclination he had.

Sir, how can we remember this gallant son of Zambia? As has been stated earlier, I knew him for his simplicity, humility, eloquence and tolerance. He was a founder member of modern multipartism. This is the democracy that many people, except for brave men like the late Dr Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba, take for granted.

Mr Speaker, in 1996, for example,  the late Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. challenged him at the MMD Convention, but one cannot imagine that it was the same man that he would appoint to manage the affairs of this country in 2001. Furthermore, although some people say it was just by accident, seated in this House, we have Hon. Sakwiba Sikota, a fierce critic of the late President between 2001 and 2003. Have we forgotten that, being the true democrat that he was, the late President appointed Hon. Sakwiba Sikota Secretary to the Gabon Disaster Fund? What a great honour it was!

Mr Speaker, when I was Minister of Health, I recall how we spent time discussing his health and wished he could get well. What a loss we have in our nation. May his legacy live on. May we all remember him as a good man; a man who cared for the less privileged. About three months ago, he requested that, as we disburse funds to Nkana Water and Sewerage Company, particularly for the Wusakile Water and Sanitation Programme, I should inform him so that he could get involved because he had never forgotten the residents of Wusakile.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, let me ask the nation to thank God our creator for such a gift in our history. I have never known anyone in life who can work very hard in order to fail. We all work hard in order to succeed and deliver services. We can, therefore, only learn from the demise of our Second Republican President and his successes. That should be the legacy.

Sir, may the soul of Dr Fredrick Titus Jacob Chiluba rest in peace.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Motion carried nemine contradicente.


Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts for the Financial Year ended 31st December, 2009, for the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 20th June, 2011.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, your Committee, in accordance with its terms of reference, considered the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts for the Financial Year ended 31st December, 2009.

Sir, I will start by thanking the Auditor-General for producing this audit report. I note that it covers sixteen ministries, six provincial administrations and Cabinet Office, representing 79 per cent of all ministries and other spending agencies. This is commendable because the ultimate goal is to reach 100 per cent coverage of all ministries and other spending agencies.

Mr Speaker, a regular audit is an important way of uncovering irregularities in financial matters, whether they are due to outright fraud and corruption or a result of laxity in following laid down procedures. I have to say, however, that the purpose is not to blame someone, but to take remedial action and give suggestions on how to address identified irregularities and weaknesses.

Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, what was noted by your Committee through various interactions with controlling officers and public officers is lack of appreciation of the audit function and process. There is evidence that most controlling officers fail to address queries during the audit process. They fail to provide the documents required by the Office of the Auditor-General even though in most cases these documents are available and ready for verification when they appear before your Committee. This should be discouraged as it is an unnecessary addition to the volume of not only the Auditor-General’s Report, but also the work of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, from the reports of your Committee in recent years, it is disheartening to observe that similar irregularities have continued to be reported in the Auditor-Generals’ reports, mostly due to failure by controlling officers to ensure strict adherence to regulations. During the period under review, irregularities caused the nation to lose K318.1 billion, representing 2.29 per cent of the actual expenditure. This is unacceptable and should not be allowed to continue. Your Committee urges the Secretary to the Treasury not to relent in putting in place measures that will reduce cases of failure to adhere to regulations.

Sir, let me now give the House and the nation some highlights of the findings of your Committee on specific irregularities.

Firstly, Sir, let me talk about unvouchered expenditures. A total of K89.3 billion was reported as unvouchered expenditure because either payment vouchers were missing or inadequately supported at the time of audit. The Ministry of Education, for example, had unvouchered expenditure amounting to K25.9 billion under a single head. This should not be allowed to continue because, without these documents, it is not possible to scrutinise the payments. Your Committee urges the Secretary to the Treasury to ensure that all controlling officers implement internal controls to correct the situation. 
Mr Speaker, the other issue that caught the attention of your Committee is the delayed or non-retirement of imprest which has continued to be rampant in the Public Service. During the period under review, K25.7 billion imprest remained unretired. Although this impacts negatively on the Government’s ability to implement its programmes, supervising officers do not appear to take it seriously because the usual light punishment for non-compliance of merely recovering the money from salaries of offending officers has allowed officers to turn imprest into interest free loans.

Sir, the view of your Committee is that this matter should be addressed urgently because it constitutes a serious leakage of public funds which affects the implementation of planned activities.

Mr Speaker, your Committee takes note of the assurance given by the Secretary to the Treasury that the matter is being addressed and that a committee of officials has been constituted to address come up with measures to resolve the problem of delayed or failure to retire imprest. Your Committee will, therefore, eagerly await the outcome out this committee’s work. However, meanwhile, controlling officers are urged to adhere to the regulations on the retirement of imprest.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also dealt with the failure by most ministries and other spending agencies to account for stores. This irregularity has also become rampant, resulting in K32.6 billion worth of stock not being accounted for during the period under review. Failure to account for stores items is a very serious irregularity, as in the absence of receipt and disposal details, it is not possible for the Auditor-General and your Committee to ascertain that the goods and services procured using public funds were actually delivered or used for their intended purposes. Your Committee, therefore, urges controlling officers to pay attention to this matter and ensure that the stores procedures are strictly adhered to.

Sir, allow me now to address a matter of great importance that concerns the breach of the Constitution in the execution of contracts. According to Article 53 (3) of the Constitution of Zambia, an agreement, contract, treaty, convention or document by whatever name it is called, to which the Government is party or in respect of which the Government has an interest, shall not be concluded without the legal advice of the Attorney-General. Your Committee notes with great concern that some ministries ignored this requirement by entering into contracts without seeking the advice of the Attorney-General.

The Ministry of Home Affairs, for example, entered into a contract with a German company at a contract sum of K7.9 billion on the passport issuing system without following this provision. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning also failed to follow this provision when it signed a contract worth K1.2 billion for the preparation of the Disaster Recovery Sites in the Integrated Financial Management and Information Systems (IFMIS) pilot sites. This conduct, which is in clear breach of the Constitution, should not be tolerated. Your Committee urges the Secretary to the Treasury to ensure that this practice is halted henceforth.

Mr Speaker, your Committee, during interactions with controlling officers from provincial administrations, noted that they all have difficulties with the management of imprest and misapplication of funds. Your Committee was taken aback by the apparent systematic abuse of public funds at the provincial office in the Western Province. I would like the Executive to seriously take note, particularly, of this province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: It is no wonder that this province is one of the poorest in the country because the people share the money that is meant for projects. 


Mr Hachipuka:  This is all I can say.

Mr Speaker, I used the word ‘systematic’ because of the nature of queries contained in the audit report. For example, an amount totaling K433 million meant for rehabilitation of feeder roads was misappropriated in many ways, including the following: authorisation of payments using forged signatures, K247 million…

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Hachipuka: …subsistence allowances for trips not undertaken, K40.7 million. Someone collects money for a trip, but stays at home; …

Hon. Opposition Member: For what?

Mr Hachipuka: …payment to ghost workers, K17.3 million. Mr Speaker, the Western Province has had the worst reports year in and year out. Last but not least, there was authorisation of payment by a retired officer, K24.7 million. What business was a retired officer doing in a Government office?

Mr Speaker, another area of gross misapplication of funds was found in respect of the usage of fuel in which strange drawings of fuel were made. I am still talking about the Western Province. For example, one vehicle drew both petrol and diesel, while petrol worth K100.9 million was drawn by diesel propelled vehicles. How?


Mr Hachipuka: Further, petrol worth K7.5 million was drawn by non-runner vehicles. How?

Your Committee finds the breach of procedure and systematic abuse of public resources not only unacceptable but criminal and demands that disciplinary action be taken against the erring officers in order to deter others. In addition, the cases should be reported to the police for necessary action. Further, your Committee urges the Secretary to the Treasury to treat the Western Province as a special case and send to the provincial office officers who can improve the management of public funds.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by thanking you and the Office of the Clerk for the guidance you rendered to the Committee during the Session. Let me also thank the Secretary to the Treasury and all controlling officers, including their representatives who appeared before your Committee, for their co-operation. The deliberations of your Committee could not have been ably concluded without the assistance of the Auditor-General, her staff and the Accountant-General and his staff. I, therefore, thank them very sincerely.

Lastly, Mr Speaker, but not in any way the least, let me show my gratitude to the Members of the Committee for their professionalism and the tenacity they displayed in carrying out their duties during this Session of the Tenth National Assembly. Their questioning of subjects was focused, prodding and resulted in the conclusions being presented to this House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mrs Mwamba: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion urging this House to adopt the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General, on the Accounts for the Financial Year Ended 31st December, 2011.

Sir, let me just comment on the accounting irregularities already mentioned by the mover of this Motion. For the years that I have served on your Committee, I have asked myself why, as a nation, we are not making headways in curbing the wanton abuse of public funds. I have wondered why billions of Kwacha have, on a yearly basis, been tied up in all sorts of irregularities and have come to the conclusion that, regardless of the efforts made by your Committee and the Auditor-General to ensure accountability, there will be no success. This is so because accountability and good governance, in general, is dependent on the overall environment in the country.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba: It depends on the political will and determination of the Executive to root out the irregularities by changing the attitude and mindset of all functionaries and stakeholders to suit the required accountability demands.

It is disappointing, Mr Speaker, that most controlling officers have been reluctant to take appropriate action whenever, irregularities have been exposed. During the period under review, for example, an officer at our mission in Kinshasa who failed to account for revenue worth K8.7 million was not sanctioned, but instead transferred to Russia. Let me give the House another example of actions that promote irregularities. During the period under review, the Ministry of Education overpaid a contractor in the name of African Brothers Corporation by K1.3 billion. This contractor was engaged to build two schools. When he appeared before the Committee, the controlling officer reported that the contractor had acknowledged the overpayment, refunded K682 million and was in the process of refunding the remaining amount. Despite the large amount involved in the overpayment, your Committee was surprised that the controlling officer has not found it necessary to sanction the officers who facilitated the payment.

Mr Speaker, the point I am making is that there must be no ambiguity in the way the nation deals with abuse of public resources. There must be clear sanctions on staff who perpetrate irregularities.

Finally, Sir, I wish to appeal to controlling officers not to let the nation down, but reflect on why they are called controlling officers. They have been given that title for a purpose. They are the custodians of public funds and should, therefore, consistently ask themselves whether they are worthy of that title.

Sir, I thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the firm and fair manner in which he guided the deliberations of your Committee.

With these few remarks, Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to add my voice to this important Motion.

First of all, I would like to commend the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee for the able manner in which he has moved this Motion. I would also like to commend the seconder for a job well done.

Sir, I was privileged to be the one who moved the First Report of the Public Accounts Committee for the First Session of the Tenth National Assembly because I was then its Chairperson. I am no longer a member of that Committee and, of course, they have a new Chairperson.

The report, as presented by the Chairperson, gives us cause to worry at the way we utilise resources in this country. Every year that we have been in this House and debated this Motion moved by the Public Accounts Committee, the same issues have come up. It is either abuse of resources, misappropriation, misapplication, delayed banking or issues to do with accounting for stores and, beyond that, uncompleted projects. The projects that we embark on in this country do not satisfy the three criteria which are quality, timeliness and cost. As a result this country is losing vast amounts of money to private pockets. Above all, this country is losing an opportunity to embark on a path to meaningful development.

Due to this laissez-faire attitude, a number of projects that are being embarked on, even as they are completed and commissioned, have very poor standards and, therefore, will not stand the test of time. The road from Masangano to the Luanshya Turnoff is a typical example. It was rehabilitated a few years back. Even though it was completed and looked beautiful, within a year, it had potholes. This means that the little money that we have, if not used effectively, will go round in circles, doing the same projects.

As we debate this Motion, Sir, we must reflect on what has gone wrong in this nation. Why do we keep talking about the same issues? Yes, we can make mistakes, but if we keep making the same mistakes, then there is something wrong with us.

The Members on your right, who have the privilege to run this Government, must understand that they have failed this nation in as far as accountability is concerned. If they had done their job, the issues raised in this report would be different. It is true that the number of issues that are being raised is a reflection of our inability, as a Government, to stick to the regulations and adhere to rules and procedures. The regulations are very clear in terms of how we should utilise public resources. The financial regulations under which the Civil Service spends our money are very clear. However, the Executive, maybe not just this one, is unwilling to ensure that those regulations are followed. As a result, we have the same queries coming up every year.

Mr Speaker, the Chairperson has dwelt on one particular province and, indeed, this is shameful. He is right to dwell on that particular province. First of all, it is supposed to be the least developed and poorest according to Government statistics, yet it is where most queries which the Chairperson talked about are most rampant.

What is it that we cannot put our fingers to? Why do we not make the civil servants play their role? Here I hazard a guess that it is because of what we have done to the Civil Service. Until such a time that we correct the wrong things we have done to the Civil Service, we shall continue to have the queries that we have and are getting year in year out. Even the new administration coming in, they will continue to get the same issues, unless they step back and reflect on what should be done with the Civil Service.

Mr Speaker, even in the UNIP era, adherence to regulations, rules and procedures was considered essential. Anybody joining the Civil Service was trained and that is why the National Institute for Public Administration (NIPA) was established. People in the civil service were taken there and the need for civil servants to adhere to these rules and procedures was inculcated in them.

Sir, with the advent of the MMD in 1991, there are many things that they have done right and we are thankful. However, one of the wrong things they did was to begin interfering with and politicising the civil service. Many of us know that many good people were brought from different institutions and fused into the civil service. There is nothing wrong with a lecturer, a professor, a general or anybody else being appointed to the civil service because we believe in the universality of management. Those of us who were trained in management know that any manager can move to any other institution because management is universal. However, rules and procedures must be adhered to.

Sir, in Britain, after the Second World War, because of the dearth of personnel in the civil service, there was need to bring civil servants at permanent secretary level from industry to run the state machinery. Even at that time, those of us who read history will attest to the fact that there was some element of training to ensure that they understood the rules and procedures. In our case, lecturers and other people from outside were brought to the civil service at the highest level of Permanent Secretary without even being made aware of what rules and procedures existed. Worse still, others were picked from the streets to become permanent secretaries. This sends a message that it pays to belong to the ruling party and so you have to look after those who have appointed you. In such a situation, the fundamental issue of preserving the resources of the state and ensuring that rules and procedures are followed becomes secondary. The end result is that this House debates a report like this one every year. Those who looked at the report last year will note that it was virtually the same as this one. It was also the same the previous year. Even as we go out, as we adjourn sine die on Friday and subsequently as the President dissolves this House, let all of us reflect that inducing accountability in the way we spend our resources has been one of our greatest failures.

As a result of our failure to ensure that our resources are used accountably, our economy or the size of our budget is stagnating. Every year, from two years ago when the national budget was K12.7 trillion to the other year when it was K15 trillion and on to this year when it is K21.5 trillion, if you use the exchange rate, it has remained static at about US$4 billion because we are not able to move the economy. This country will begin to grow the economy only if we focus on little things like using imprest for the work you are assigned. The financial regulation is very clear. When you come back to station, you should retire the imprest within 48 hours. It does not mean taking the money back, but that if you have used the money and you have the receipts, take the receipts back.  This administration is failing to implement even simple things like these.

Mr Speaker, the regulation goes further than that. The Permanent Secretary or controlling officer is supposed to discipline an officer who fails to retire imprest, including making sure that no more imprest is given. That is not being followed. The regulation also puts the onus  on the Secretary to the Treasury to ensure that every month every ministry comes up with a list of all the outstanding imprest and sends it to the Secretary to the Treasury who is supposed to take action on the ailing officers. Even that is not being done and the message sent is that imprest is a grant that you can take, use the money and, if no one asks, you forget all else. If someone asks, as is often the case, then the controlling officer and the other supervisors will turn the imprest into an interest-free loan. We saw one year while I was still chairperson of the Committee that this loan, in respect to a number of people was payable over four hundred years. This is disgraceful.

Mr Speaker, I come back to Western Province where, every year, we have talked about the same province and how they are abusing the resources. We have accounting officers who are building hotels all over the place and the Government is fully aware of that, but action is not being taken. Instead we are just politicking. We have an officer who left because there was an election, he had to come to Southern Province to vote and the Government facilitated that by giving this person allowances, transport and so on. Is this how we are going to use our resources? Is it any wonder that we are talking about the high poverty levels in that particular province?

Mr Speaker, even in schemes like farm resettlement, a lot of money was allocated by this Parliament, but we see the abuse of public resources. This has continued because it is being led by the very highest offices. I shudder to think what will happen next year when we look at the report that will be moved by the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee with respect to the projects that we are embarking on this year which are unbudgeted for. This is the kind of abuse we are talking about. We should begin to reflect on the simple things. Any Government which will be in power after the elections, I beg it to reflect on these simple things. Let us follow the rules and procedures. If you do that, you will see the size of the Auditor General’s report starting to shrink. The issues that will be brought to this House by the Public Accounts Committee will be those that are…

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.{mospagebreak}



Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Before business was suspended the House was considering the Motion moved by the hon. Member for Mbabala, that this House do adopt the report of the Public Accounts Committee, on the report of the Auditor-General on the accounts for the financial year ended 31st December, 2009, for the Fifth Session of the Tenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 20th June, 2011. The hon. Member for Luena was then speaking. Before I call upon the hon. Member for Luena, let me remind the House that there is only one Chair and one Speaker at any given time. Therefore, when guidance is given by the Chair to one hon. Member, it applies to the entire House. The welcome accorded the Speaker when entering by saying “hear, hear” has been discouraged. That applies all the time.

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee dwelt on issues concerning the Western Province. We were also reminded that issues of abuse of resources and lack of accountability are not restricted to the provincial administration. Even at the lower organs of the local government, Mongu District Council, for instance, the same issues exist. Every year the report that comes out there speaks of the same abuse and misapplication. Even the little resources that are meant for development or to service the town end up in people’s pockets.

Madam Speaker, this has to come to a stop. The Government appears to be unwilling or unable to act. I wonder why this is so. In the case of the local government system, even the small issue of transferring somebody who is a senior official and is obviously causing many problems is marred in unnecessary political controversy. All of a sudden, someone I have never met becomes my relative or brother so that they can serve and can continue to eat. This is wrong.

Madam Speaker, I do not debate issues without offering solutions. Therefore, as I wind up, let me talk about how we can get around these issues, how we can bring sanity in the expenditure of our resources so that the little we have can move this country forward instead of spending so many hours talking about the same issues? I believe that the Zambian people in general are very subservient to authority. They listen to what authority says.

Madam, in order to deal with the very difficult issues of abuse of public resources, all these issues we see in the Auditor-General’s report and all matters that come up in the Public Accounts Committee meetings, we need leadership from the very top that will indicate and make it clear to all public officers and the whole nation that these issues will no longer be tolerated. We have an example in the neighbouring country of Tanzania where the President, when the report of the Auditor-General comes out, calls all senior officers from cabinet ministers to permanent secretaries to a round table and makes them explain what is happening in their ministries.

Madam, I think Zambia will do well to learn from good examples like this one. After we go to the polls this year, we shall have a new administration in place next year. Whether it is the same administration that comes back, it will be a new administration. Whether this administration will be from that side (pointed at UPND Members) or this side (pointed at PF Members) or here (pointed at himself)…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: …it will be a new administration. It will most likely be our administration.


Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, we have to commit ourselves to ensuring that the resources of this country, appropriated by this House, as is demanded by the Constitution and separation of powers, are used for the intended purpose. The way to do that is to take action. Hon. Cabinet Ministers must also have a responsibility to make sure that resources are used in the right manner. When we have so much abuse, I wonder why the hon. Minister of Home Affairs does not use his short baton on hon. Ministers and permanent secretaries who do not run their ministries properly.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support this Motion.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate this Motion. In supporting this Motion, I wish begin by clearly stating that, if there is an area where this MMD Government has failed, it is in ensuring prudent use of public resources. It is well known that since we came to this House in 2006, the Auditor-General’s report has been growing in volume. This shows that there is nothing being done to abate the situation.

Madam, by and large, this problem of misappropriation and misuse of public resources can only be sorted out if we go back to the drawing board and do what is expected of us. The problem that we have at the moment in Zambia is that permanent secretaries, who are controlling officers in ministries, are appointed by the President. Therefore, hon. Ministers fail to supervise them because they are scared of the unknown. Most of these hon. Minister cannot pretend that they do not see the shortcomings in the accounting systems in their ministries. They do see them and know the solutions to these issues, but are too scared of the unknown to act because three quarters of permanent secretaries are either relatives or friends of the President.


Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kambwili: Some hon. Ministers are even scared of approaching their permanent secretaries to ask them to organise logistics for them to undertake trips. That is a fact. It is also a fact that as long as permanent secretaries are appointed by the President, these hon. Ministers will not overcome this problem of abuse of authority by permanent secretaries because they are scared. It is only a few years ago in this same Parliament that we saw an hon. Minister who reported a Commissioner of Lands to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and because this commissioner was related to the President, the President ended up firing the hon. Minister…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Order, hon. Member! I think that we have to remember how we debate here. Mentioning or bringing in individuals who cannot defend themselves here is not correct. When you make allegations of who is a relative of who, that becomes very difficult to deal with because you must have evidence or at least prove what you are saying to be true. Therefore, the hon. Member is advised not to go along that route whereby he will not bring evidence or people may not defend themselves. The hon. Member may continue with that guidance in mind.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, thank you for that guidance. What I am trying to say is that unless this country starts to employ permanent secretaries on professional grounds, that is, by advertising their positions, allow them to apply and be interviewed and be given the jobs on merit, we shall continue to experience these problems.

Madam Speaker, the issues that we have been encountering in the Auditor-General’s report are the same, as Hon. Milupi mentioned. Surely, how can any reasonable person fail to take disciplinary action against a person who expends money without raising a voucher- unvouchered expense? Most of these hon. Ministers are entrepreneurs and these anomalies do not happen in their companies. So, how come the anomalies are there in the Government? There is absolutely no reason we should keep talking about unvouchered expenditure because it is a requirement that before expenditure is made, a voucher be raised to justify why you want to make that expenditure. It is only after raising the voucher that it will be approved by the offices that are designated to approve it. Surely, how can we be finding issues of unvouchered expenditure?

Madam Speaker, when I was Industrial Relations Officer for the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM), unvouchered expenditure called for immediate dismal. We fired employees on the spot because that is fraud. How is it that in the five years that I have been in this House, this problem keeps coming up? I appeal to my colleagues, if they have enough time, to ensure that these issues are resolved.

Madam Speaker, regarding unretired impressed, it is a pity that even hon. Ministers fail to retire imprest. Surely, if you have to supervise your subordinates in retirement of imprest, you must lead by example. However, if we check how many of our colleagues on your right hand side retire imprest, you will be shocked. It is only that, in this country, as long as you are friendly to the system these things will not come out. However, immediately you are out, you will be mpombolised.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! That word is not known here. You may withdraw it.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I withdraw it and replace it with, “you will be treated the way Hon. Mpombo has been treated”. So, if you want to curb vices like this, first and foremost, you must be prepared to lead by example. The problem that we have in our politics is that there is an “I do not care type of attitude” because most people who enter politics do it not to serve, but to earn a living. As long as people continue to do this, they will forever be interested only in their salaries, not seeing what is going on in their ministries. When you are given power to rule and administer the resources of the State on behalf of the people of Zambia, that is a very special privileged responsibility that you must execute judiciously. It is surprising that even in the Office of the Vice-President there are queries.


Mr Kambwili: If we can have queries in the Office of the Vice-President, who is supposed to lead by example by making sure that he checks that his department, Cabinet Office and all those areas that fall under him are leading by example, where are we going? It is unfortunate to learn of queries in the report of the Office of the Vice-President and even State House.

Let us, please, start taking our jobs seriously. When we go to ask for mandate from the people, we promise to serve them tirelessly, but what do we do when we come here? We adopt an “I do not care” type of attitude. As long as we have that kind of attitude, this country will never change for the better. I have always said that he who knows that he knows not is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not know that he knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool forever.


Mr Kambwili: Madam, this Government is full of defence mechanisms. You will hear how the hon. Members on your right, when they rise to debate, will start defending these queries by saying things such as, “That is why we put up the Office of the Auditor-General. So, we are moving on the right track.” If you are moving on the right track, why has the volume of the book continued to increase? For once, accept that you failed and only when you accept your mistakes will you change. You will hear them when they start debating…


Mr Kambwili: …and all we will hear from them is defence. What we expect from them is to say, “We are going to take action.” “This one is going to be taken to court” and “that one is going to be disciplined.” However, all they know is to defend. Sometimes, you may even wrongly think that they share these resources amongst themselves because you can only defend a wrong thing that you are party to. If something is wrong and you are not involved in it, it is only reasonable to admit that it is wrong. Once you adopt such an attitude, then things will change in these ministries. Madam, I do not see this country changing under this Government, unless we change our attitude.

When you see that, in your ministry, there are so many queries, you sit your staff down and say, “Next year, I want these queries to be reduced.” I wonder if any of them has ever engaged their subordinates at the ministry to discuss the Auditors-General’s Report because even when we come to discuss the report here, some of them are surprised that certain issues from their ministries are raised because they do not even read. They do not have the time for the leadership of this country and the time to avert what I may call a calamity. Let us be serious with our jobs and with what we do. Unless we are serious, we shall not overcome these issues

Madam Speaker, I have noted with sadness that when you read the Auditor-General’s report, you find receipts which were not presented during the Auditor-General’s audit resurfacing after queries. These are manufactured receipts. It is straightforward. Everybody knows that they are just manufactured receipts.

Madam Speaker, when I served on your Committee of Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs, the same thing happened regarding audits. When the auditor went to conduct an audit, there would be no receipts. However, when the people audited came to appear before the Committee, they would have the receipts. Sometimes, that is why I say mufulo…

Hon. Members: What is that?

Mr Kambwili: …it is negligence...

…because the receipts presented look so freshly written. You may be talking about an issue of 2002, but when a receipt is presented, it looks very fresh. Naturally, when paper is kept for a long time, you can tell that it is old. One can easily tell a new paper from an old one. Most of the receipts, Hon. Musokotwane will agree with me as we were discussing this issue, bear fresh ink and we accept them. The invoices are even verified by the hon. Minister. You cannot question that. Why is it that the receipts only resurface after the Auditor-General’s audit? Some of them will even tell you that, “When we went to our dead file, there was too much dust that we could not get the receipts at that time”. If there was dust then what got rid of the dust on that particular day when you finally retrieved it? So, it is a question of putting our heads together and doing the right thing.

Madam, there is no reason a receipt that was not there could just, all of a sudden, resurface. It is a syndicate. Everybody is involved. As long as people continue to defend the wrong things, this country will go nowhere. We need resources to develop this country. Many people are suffering. When you total the money that has been misapplied in this report, you cry.

Hon. Opposition Members: That has been stolen.

Mr Kambwili: That has been stolen, thank you. There are people that are not able to take their children to school. In fact, all miners now, like in Luanshya, are not able to take their children to the university because they get K1.6 million and K1.2 million and the university charges K7 million a term. They cannot afford, yet we have money being misappropriated every year while the Government watches.

Colleagues, as long as we have this kind of attitude towards national issues, we are not going anywhere. Wait until we are given power for us to show you how it is done.


Mr Kambwili: You will see that this report will reduce. If you cared, these anomalies could have been reduced.

Hon. Government Members: Yaa!

Mr Kambwili: You can say “yaya”, but you know…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

You speak through the Chair. Do not direct anything at those hon. Members.

Mr Kambwili: Madam, in the current situation, we are even told that some accountants and cashiers at ministries have become shylocks. Instead of banking the money for the ministry they lend it out at high interests of 50 per cent. I was surprised when one of my friends, a supplier to the mining industry, came to Lusaka to get his money for the goods he supplied. I accompanied him to this shylock who was a cashier at one of the ministries. I wondered how, with all these problems in the Auditor-General’s report, a cashier could be a shylock lending K300 million. From this, you can see that everything is wrong in our system. The report has revealed that some people have not banked money for 500 days.

Mr Lubinda: 500?

Mr Kambwili: What was the purpose of keeping that money for 500 days? Yet those people are left to continue handling public funds and claims are made that investigations are being conducted. What is being investigated when those people are allowed to continue handling money for the State? What are you up to? You fire them. As long as you keep them, they will be shylocks. No wonder accountants and cashiers are building mansions in Chalala because of the Government’s negligence.

Madam, my appeal to our colleagues is that some of these issues…

Hon. Government Members: Lubinda!

Mr Kambwili: …must be sorted out. One of the issues that drew my attention was what happened at the embassy in the United Kingdom (UK). It was reported that they needed to cut grass. The officers got their children to do the work and paid them £5,702 sterling. Now, do our laws allow you as Minister or Government official to ask your children to do piece work and you pay them from public resources? Why are we keeping that ambassador? The report says, the issue has been sorted out and the ambassador says this will not happen again. Nibululu wenu?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kambwili: Sorry, is he your relative? That ambassador is supposed to be fired. What proof is there to show that the job they did was worth £5,702 sterling? For just slashing grass you pay £5,702 sterling? These are the problems you encounter when you appoint relatives and friends because, in the end, you fail to fire them or take any disciplinary action. Unless you become professional in appointing people, all these issues will be part of every day life in Zambia.

Madam, we have just been told that the funeral of our late President Dr Chiluba will cost K4 billion. We hope and trust that there will not be another Auditor-General’s report like that on the late President Mwanawasa’s death where, until now, money has not been accounted for. We hope this K4 billion that Hon. Shikapwasha announced on radio today will be accounted for. Otherwise, we will come and lock you up.


Hon. Government Members: Where?

Mr Kambwili: When we form Government.

Mr Lubinda: Yes, very soon.

Mr Kambwili: The first one to be arrested will be the one who announced the K4 billion. Then we will start going down.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kambwili: With these few words, I thank you, Madam.


The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House ably moved and seconded.

I wish to begin by thanking your Committee for a very good report. I also wish to commend the Auditor-General and recognise her work in ensuring proper utilisation of resources and promoting accountability in the disbursement of our resources. We appreciate that due to limitations of time, your Committee was unable to deal with outstanding issues cited in paragraph 74 of the Auditor-General’s Report. In this connection, we would like to urge your Committee officials appointed to deal with outstanding matters to work very closely with the controlling officers in order to facilitate quick resolution of outstanding matters.

Madam Speaker, we noticed with satisfaction that there are many other outstanding matters that have been closed such as the issue related to unretired imprest and unsupported payments especially in the Public Service.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the force of argument by Hon. Kambwili, but I want to remind him that the Financial Control Act is very clear on the role of controlling officers in the disbursement and control of public funds. It is not the role of politicians to act as controlling officers and chase after officers to retire imprest. Hon. Ministers do not even verify receipts. This is the law that we passed in this House. Where there has been laxity in the performance of functions by permanent secretaries in their capacity as controlling officers, action has always been taken.

Madam Speaker, we have noticed, with seriousness, some of the concerns raised in your report. Among others, are the lack of appreciation of audit functions by controlling officers, failure by controlling officers to produce or provide documentation, failure by controlling officers to control irregularities in stores keeping and in entering into contracts without clearance from the Attorney-General as provided for under Article 54 of the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, we have taken serious notice of all these weaknesses and will take serious steps to ensure that they are addressed in the shortest possible time. With these few words, I thank your Committee, once again, for the good report.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Hachipuka: Madam Speaker, I shall not be long in concluding and thanking those who have spoken and, indeed, those who wanted to speak on this report. However, I wish to leave this thought with everybody sitting in this House: When Parliament votes money for provinces, ministries or otherwise for developmental projects, the rate at which each province develops depends entirely on the utilisation of the money in that province. After some time, you will inevitably see the differences in terms of development. If the money in a particular province is not used equitably and effectively, that province will remain behind in terms of development. Therefore, I wish that all of us here recognise the importance of frugal utilisation of resources because, without it, you will be left behind by other provinces and you will create serious inertia on a Government that is well meaning. Please, remember that.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to.



The Vice-President and Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1900 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 23rd June, 2011.