DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY 

Thursday, 8th December, 2011

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

____________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received a communication to the effect that in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other national duties, Hon. Sebastian A. Zulu, SC., MP, Minister of Justice, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business from today, Thursday, 8th December 2011 to Friday 9th December, 2011.

Thank you.

___________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CHIPATA/MFUWE ROAD

45. Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the tarring of the Chipata/Mfuwe Road would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwenya): Mr Speaker, the contract for the upgrading of the 104 km Chipata/Mfuwe Road to bituminous standard was awarded to Sable Transport. The works on the road started on 29th December, 2009 and the contract period for the project is forty months. As at 31st October, 2011, the contractor had upgraded 35 km and the project is supposed to be completed by April 2013.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, following the hon. Minister’s response, and in view of the President’s policy direction on tourism, will the Government consider speeding up the works on this road so as to improve tourism development in the area?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I think the contractor has been engaged to ensure that he speeds up the work. He is now actually doing the job on two fronts.

I thank you, Sir.

FOOD RESERVE AGENCY MAIZE

46. Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock what economic benefits were likely to accrue to the country following the offloading of the one million metric tonnes of maize by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA).

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the opportunity cost of not selling the maize and the country realising some value from it would have been the risk of the entire maize stock going to waste due to insufficient storage facilities as it was unsecured and the rains have set in. 

Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that the Government directed the FRA to offload 1, 067,000 metric tonnes of maize on to the open market in order to realise the following economic and consumer benefits:

(i)    the 432,000 metric tonnes of maize to be sold to millers, feed processors and other local food industry clients is anticipated to result in the reduction of mealie-meal prices since maize is the major raw material in the maize milling industry. The resultant effect is that of the consumer benefiting through savings and increased disposable income. This will also be the same for the 10, 000 metric tonnes of maize to be sold to local rural communities at K35, 000 per 50 kg bag; and

(ii)    the 600 metric tonnes of maize which is to be exported will attract foreign exchange from the international market, thereby contributing to a positive balance of payment for the country, which will represent an economic benefit.

Sir, ultimately, the proceeds realised from the sale of the 1,067,000 metric tonnes of maize, even though not equal to the cost of maize, shall be applied towards amortising the FRA’s commercial loans, thereby relieving pressure on the Treasury. This initiative by the Government to sell the maize at reduced prices will also result in the safeguarding of the commodity from spoilage due to rain and inadequate storage.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, has the amount of money that has been raised from the sale of the maize helped to reduce the debt that has been owed to the farmers for the 2011/ 2011 farming season?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, indeed, we have, to date, sold close to US$36 million’s equivalent and this amount has gone a long way in reducing the liabilities that the FRA had accrued in transportation costs as well as payment to the farmers. Therefore, it has gone a long way in reducing the Government’s indebtedness.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Zimba (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how much money the Government will lose because of selling this maize cheaply. 

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we are yet to work out the actual total cost of the loss. However, the threat of the total loss that would have occurred had we not taken this step would have been more severe than the loss that we were going to incur by selling the maize at a reduced price.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister assure the nation that due care has been put in place that, in the event of unfavourable weather conditions during this rain season, the country will not experience a shortage of maize.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the weather pattern has not been favourable to the agriculture sector. We are experiencing a temporary drought. As a result, we are forced to increase our maize strategic reserve stocks from 300,000 to 600,000 metric tonnes in order to take care of any contingent needs resulting from the effects of the drought.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, firstly, considering that this maize is being sold at a subsidised price, are there arrangements for the maize to reach places like Luena, where there are no roads, so that the people there can also benefit from the subsidy? Secondly, there is an issue of exporting maize. May we know the price at which a 50kg bag of maize will be exported and the cost of producing that bag.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, in terms of the subsidised maize reaching Luena, may I advise the hon. Member of Parliament to get in touch with the Office of the Vice-President under the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). They will be able to assist her to get the maize into Luena.

Sir, as for the exporting of the maize, we are selling this maize here. We have no control over what happens to the maize where it goes. This is an issue between those who are buying the maize and where they are taking it.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, in the past, we have heard the Patriotic Front (PF) complain about the low price of maize sold by the previous regime, the MMD. Since they are now in the Government, what happened for them to fail to find a buyer at a higher price?

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we have offloaded this maize onto the open market and we are selling to those who are responding to our offers. Therefore, we will go by the offers that we receive.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Ema ministers aya!

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister inform this House the steps that his ministry will take to ensure that, in future, the crops, particularly maize, do not go to waste, given that we do not have sufficient storage facilities.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the first thing that we have done is to ensure that all the amounts that were due to transporters who had withdrawn their services from the FRA are paid. That is how we have been able to bring them back on board and facilitate the transportation of maize to the main holding depots along the line of rail. In addition, we are rehabilitating the storage facilities in the country. We are also constructing and renting additional storage facilities. This will ensure that, this time around, this situation is handled better.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about increasing the strategic reserves from 300,000 to 600,000 metric tonnes. In an event of a drought, how long can this quantity sustain us?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, this country consumes about 80,000 metric tonnes of maize per month. So, 600,000 metric tonnes will take us slightly more than four months, which is sufficient time for us to import maize if the need arose.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

BATOKA/MAAMBA ROAD

47.    Mr Siamunene (Sinazongwe) asked the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Government would construct bridges on the Batoka/Maamba Road; and

(b)    what measures the Government had taken to prevent the bridges on the road above from being washed away during the 2011/2012 rain season.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is currently procuring the services of a design consultant to undertake techno-economic studies, detailed engineering designs and preparation of tender documents for the Batoka to Maamba Road. Once the consultant is appointed, the detailed study will inform the RDA on the appropriate intervention to be undertaken. This will include replacement and construction of damaged bridges on the aforementioned road. The physical implementation of the project might commence in 2013 after finalisation of the techno-economic studies, detailed engineering designs and preparation of tender documents in 2012. This will be subject to the availability of funds in the 2013 Annual Work Plan.

Sir, the RDA signed a contract with Inyasi Roads Zambia Limited on 2nd February, 2011, to carry out emergency and protective works to selected drainage structures along the Batoka/Maamba Road at a contract sum of K13,689,656,364.79. The initial duration of the project was three months, but later extended by ten weeks. The contractor completed the works on 11th October, 2011.

Sir, the RDA shall undertake additional inspections on those structures that were not worked on. Where necessary, remedial measures by way of strengthening shall be undertaken, which may be considered under emergency works as provided for in the 2012 Annual Work Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I would like to know why it has taken us forty-seven years to think of conducting that study. Why was it not considered a long time ago?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it is very difficult for me to state, exactly, the reason the study was not done. However, I think that what is good for us to understand is that the study will be undertaken and a good job will be done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Siamunene: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that we are talking of 2013 when the bridges that we have in place are temporal and it is obvious they will be washed away this season. Could the hon. Minister shed more light on what will be done, the timeframe and the monitoring mechanisms the Government has put in place to ensure that the work is done. I am saying so because we have had contractors who have been contracted recently but, when you look at the job that they have done, …

Mr Speaker: Just put your question.

Mr Siamunene: Mr Speaker, when will the work be done? We have suffered for too long and can, therefore, not wait for 2013. It is too far.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Deputy Minister was giving the answer, he specified that we are going to carry out some inspections and strengthen those structures that are weak. We take such issues into consideration whenever we are carrying out engineering inspections. We know the importance of protecting the embankments.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware of the state of the bridges on that road? I am asking this question because he is still saying that an inspection will be undertaken yet, year in year out, we have bridges on that road being washed away. 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, what is important to note is that some work has already been done. The bridges we are referring to are eighteen or more. When the inspection is carried out, we will know, exactly, what major works are to be done. However, so far, remedial work has been done to ensure that the smaller bridges are stable.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, may I know when this study will be undertaken because part of this road forms the Bottom Road?

Mr Mukanga:  Mr Speaker, the study is going to commence in 2012. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm that, for the 2011/2012 rain season, nothing has been planned for that road so that the people should brace themselves for washed-away bridges.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm that.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

__________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

(Debate resumed)

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, whether we like it or not, as a nation, the Public Service Management Division is the gatekeeper of an efficient and effective Civil Service. It does so by ensuring that no mediocre people are admitted into the Civil Service. It is this division that ensures that square pegs are not put in round holes. In other words, it ensures that the right people are put in the right positions depending on their credentials. This being the case, it is very important that the Office of the Vice-President provides leadership to the division so that it can successfully carry out its role of ensuring that the nation is guaranteed quality personnel in the Civil Service. 

Mr Chairperson, it is a reality in our country, today, that fraud in obtaining higher-level education credentials is prevalent. Many of our people fraudulently obtain certificates, especially from the universities. There have been incidences of fraudulent activities even in appointments to very high levels in the Civil Service. Therefore, it is incumbent upon the division to ensure that such vices are curtailed so that, as nation, we are saved the embarrassment of putting people in offices for which they are not qualified. 

Sir, we have a very important Government modernisation programme, the E-Government Programme, which is directly at addressing ensuring efficiency in the way the Government operates. 

It is this unit that should take the lead in the co-ordinating the placement of information communication technology in the various units of Government so that they are all properly networked and co-ordinated in the quest for the modernisation and efficient and effective operation of the Government. 

Mr Chairperson, in short, I would have loved to hear a policy statement from His Honour the Vice-President that guarantees hope in terms of how the Public Service Management Division will operate in enhancing the efficient and effective operation of the Civil Service, especially, in matters of training, performance assessment, audits and quality assurance in the way the personnel operates. It is only by doing that that, as a nation, we shall be guaranteed an effective human capital contribution to our development endeavour. This is important and His Honour the Vice-President should show leadership in that regard.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according the opportunity to give my maiden speech. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
    
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I want to start by thanking the people of Chongwe for making it possible for me to stand here as their representative. I also want to thank my two campaign managers, Hon. Emmanuel Chenda and Mr Willie Nsanda, for the very good work they did. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I also want to thank a number of my colleagues in the Front and Middle Benches who all worked very hard and spent nights in Chongwe to ensure that I made it to this House and contribute today because they felt that I am an asset to this nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I thank them all. 

Sir, a good number of people are chocking because of my victory. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Sir, allow me to congratulate the hon. Mr Speaker on his well-deserved election to the position of Speaker. I also wish to congratulate the Deputy Speaker, who is my very good friend, and the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee of the Whole House.   

Interruptions  

The Chairperson: Order! 

I heard, mwaulula manje.  Please withdraw that. 

Laughter

The Chairperson: Thou shalt not bring the Deputy Speaker into your personal issues. 

You may continue, please. 
    
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I also want to congratulate all the hon. Members of Parliament who made it to this House, especially those who did so honestly. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, allow me, at this juncture, to wholeheartedly congratulate His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … who others said would never be President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: …for his landslide victory in the 20th September, 2011 General Elections. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the celebrations …

The Chairperson: Order!

Just to correct the hon. Member. I know that you meant to deliver that speech when Mr Speaker was in the Chair. You are addressing the House when the Chairperson is in the Chair. Therefore, please address the Chairperson. 

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance. 

Sir, the jubilation of almost all the citizens who went on the streets throughout the country shortly after President Sata was declared winner needs to be well-understood for it to be appreciated and correctly documented …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: …for posterity. 

Hon. MMD Member: Question!

Mrs Masebo: The people of Zambia felt a sense of liberation from all the injustices that the previous regime had done them; … 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: … the bad governance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, this was a Government full of leaders who thought that they were very smart and knew it all. It was a Government filled with evil leaders.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: We can only thank our good Lord for liberating us from slavery perpetrated, not by our colonial masters, as we knew it, but by our own parents and sisters who did not behave like women or mothers, … 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: …and our own brothers, who were masquerading as leaders. 

Hon. Government Member:  Ba Shikapwasha!

Mrs Masebo: I can only thank God that the people of Zambian rejected them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, the September, 2011 elections, although won by the PF, were neither free nor fair. Those in power at the time abused their offices to have undue advantage over those in the Opposition. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Violence and abuse of state resources and machinery were the order of the day. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I am not surprised to see that we have a big number of petitions in our courts today. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I can firmly say that, if our electoral process was fair, some of my colleagues would not be here.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Dora ataba!

Mrs Masebo: Shame on our country, which has leaders who are not supposed to be leaders. 

Hon. Government Members: But they are here!

Mr M. H. Malama: Twalimyebele ati akesa.

Mrs Masebo:  We have leaders who are supposed be behind bars, …

Laughter 

Mrs Masebo: … not just for corruption, but even for murder.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I have in mind our citizens who were murdered in Mongu, Mansa, Mazabuka and Mandevu. I also have in mind so many other people who have died of poverty because of the bad governance of the previous regime. 

Hon. Government Members: Burying money!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I have never known such greed and selfishness as shown by some of the leaders in the former regime. 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Mrs Masebo: The poverty and underdevelopment of our people could only be demonstrated by jubilation that Zambia witnessed after our ‘Moses’, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, was declared winner.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, did you know that some people even tried to rig the just-ended by-elections in Chongwe? Even under a new administration, somebody was found with two voters’ cards in his pocket bearing the same face, but having different names. This person also had chitenges and was dishing out money on the day of voting. 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Mrs Masebo: Thanks to the vigilant members of the PF and residents of Chongwe who reported some of these people to the police. 

Hon. Government Member: Dora nabutuka!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, when we say that the elections were not free and fair, we know what we are talking about.

Mr Speaker, the PF Government must clean up the whole electoral process and quickly work on a fair and just system that will ensure that the will of the people is upheld.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: We do not want to see an electoral process in which people just buy their way into leadership positions.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I hope that the PF Government will begin to look at how much money must be spent in an election by individuals and political parties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I would actually be happy if the issue of T-shirts and chitenges was totally banned so that we have election campaigns that are issue-based, not ones based on how many chitenges one has distributed. It is really a shame on us as a country.

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Mrs Masebo: Sir, I was inspired by His Excellency the President’s Speech to this House when he officially opened it. I was also happy to note that the Budget Speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning gave effect to the statements by His Excellency the President. I was very refreshed as I read through the statement by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning because it was very easy for me to follow; even the language used was very simple, focused and people-based. You could see that this is a Budget for the people meant to deal with the issues promised in the elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: Ebuteko ubu! Quality!

Mrs Masebo: I was happy to see a Budget well-tilted towards education, health, agriculture and, for the first time, local government and housing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: As you know, Mr Chairperson, there are very few people who understand governance. Many times we have ignored local government, … 

Mr Chilangwa: Tuli banono sana!

Mrs Masebo: … until now when, for the first time, we have seen it receiving its due attention, maybe, because we have a President who has been an hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, a Governor, a Ward Chairperson and an effective National Secretary of a political party, and one who is really close to the people and understands what they want.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: That is how come we have seen a Budget that has given a 100 per cent increase to local government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Not just giving money, but also, …

The Chairperson: Order, order!

I think that we are getting out of hand. The practice, in this House, is that when you want to support the views of a debater, you say, ‘hear, hear!’ This “yah, yah!” business is not acceptable. 

Laughter

The Chairperson: Let us do what is right.

Can you continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I …

Mr Ntundu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

This is just to remind hon. Members that you do not shout, ‘point of order!’ whilst seated. Hon. Ntundu, you have been shouting for a long time and I heard you, but I deliberately ignored you. Please, you know the rules. If you want to raise a point of order, you must do the right thing. 

You may raise your point of order.

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Mr Chairperson, thank you …

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Ntundu: … for giving me an opportunity to raise a very serious point of order on the hon. Member on the Floor.

Hon. Government Members: On the maiden speech?

Mr M. H. Malama: Mwalilaba ba, Ntundu?

Mr Ntundu: This is not a play house. You shut up.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, order!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, order!

There has to be discipline in the House. Hon. Ntundu, may you leave the House and come back tomorrow.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Can you leave the House.

Mr Ntundu left the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

There shall be order in the House. We cannot continue disregarding the rules that we have made.

Can you continue, please.

Mrs Masebo: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I will be quick as I can see that I have only four minutes left to wind up my debate.

Sir, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that I was very happy with the speech of His Excellency the President and the Budget Address that followed it because it is focused and looked at the issues that affect the people. The first one is to do with local government, which I said is good because, clearly, the leadership of the PF knows what the people need. Local government is an institution that is close to the people. 

Sir, what is particularly pleasing is that decentralisation is being effected. For the first time, we have been given a framework for its implementation and resources to re-capacitate the councils. We have also been told that, by 2013, the PF Government will begin to devolve power in a phased manner. So, we know, exactly, what we are looking out for. Decentralisation is very important and unless we move that way, as the PF, we will also be like other parties. I am happy because the decentralisation we heard about in the last administration was where, for the first time, we started hearing phrases like “PF councils” yet, as a party in Government, the MMD Government had all the councils under it. I hope that the PF Government will not run into that kind of arrangement.

Sir, Chongwe Constituency has many challenges, but I just want to thank the Government and the President for the promises that have been made, especially, those relating to the construction of secondary schools, provision of water and sanitation and electrifying the villages. I heard one of my colleagues, the other day, asking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to explain where the money to electrify Chongwe would come from. The question I asked myself was: What kind of leaders are these? Instead of saying, “Can you also extend electrification to Gwembe,” they are asking why Chongwe Constituency is going to be electrified and where the money to electrify it will to come from. We know that there is money because we have seen some former hon. Ministers having money buried at their homes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Shame!

Mrs Masebo: This shows that there is a lot of money.

What surprises me is that every time we talk about the people, there is the question of the availability of money. When you talk about trips for leaders and many other things that benefit us, as leaders, there is no issue of availability of money being raised. However, when we talk about the poor, the question of money begins to arise. It should never be that way.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Sir, I also want to thank this Government and its President for doing away with user fees in the health sector in urban areas. It may be recalled that this is what we should have done in, maybe, 2003 or ten years ago, I cannot even remember. Unfortunately, we were only able to do this in the rural areas because of the narrow understanding that the poor are found only in the rural areas, yet they are also in Kanyama, Mandevu and other peri-urban areas. So, doing away with user fees is very important and it will really go a long way in cutting down on the number of deaths, especially those affecting mothers and children.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue that I wish to look at is that of education. Since there is the issue of extending free education in the PF Manifesto, I would like to make a passionate appeal that this matter be seriously considered. Many of our children are growing up without education because their parents cannot afford to educate them. Even as we talk about free education, it is not really free at the end of the day. Those of us who represent rural constituencies like I do Chongwe know that many of our children, today, are not going to school. We had people who were just singing and making rhetoric, yet the education sector is in a chaotic state.

Sir, I am happy that the President mentioned, in his speech, that he wants this new Government to review the Education Act. I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training to quickly do so that we really begin to provide quality education, not just talking about desks being provided and schools being built, when this was only happening in hon. Ministers’ constituencies.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, we had a Government which, even when it came to sharing the national cake, the leaders looked at themselves first. 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mrs Masebo: We had ministers who, for example, took nine primary schools and six secondary schools to their villages when, in Chongwe, I have thirty-five basic schools …

The Chairperson: Order! 

The hon. Member’s time has expired.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Chairperson, in contributing to the policy statement on the Public Service Management Division (PSMD), I wish to raise a few issues concerning the Public Service in this country.

Sir, for a very long time, we, especially the politicians, have complained about the inefficiency and poor service delivery in the Civil Service, but have not looked at the cause.

Sir, to expect efficiency from our civil servants with their current conditions of service would be expecting too much. The issue of morale in the Civil Service must be addressed. Many people have said that there is no money in the Treasury, but it is there.

Mr Mweetwa: The money is there.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, in this book (patting the Yellow Book), the money is there and I am going to elaborate a little later. A graduate in the Civil Service earns less than K3 million. How can we give someone a housing allowance of K380, 000 per month, in Lusaka, and expect them to perform? How can we say that civil servants do not work hard and have poor work ethics when we pay them this kind of money? That is being unfair and poor moral judgment. 

Mr Chairperson, there is no alternative to paying our people what they deserve. Today, we heard about the Auditor-General’s Report that has just been released. It has revealed that there is about K1.8 billion in unretired imprest.

Hon. PF Members: It was under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Mr Hamududu: No, even now under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, public workers are not retiring imprest.

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Interruptions 

Mr Hamududu: Sir, you will see that, even in the next Auditor-General’s Report, this issue will still be there. The people in the Public Service are finding unretired imprest as the only way of relief. They have found it an innovative way of surviving and making ends meet. If the Executive does not address the issue of good salaries for civil servants, non-retirement of imprest and many other vices in the Government will never end. We must go to the root causes so that, tomorrow, we will have the moral right to punish erring civil servants. 

Mr Chairperson, we know very well that no one can live on K2.5 million in Lusaka. Why should a graduate be paid K380,000 as housing allowance? What house can one rent here for that amount? Not even a one room can go that cheap. The Government is even lucky to have these people reporting for work and we must thank them. It is not normal to report for work when you are paid K380,000 as housing allowance. The civil servants in this country are extraordinary human beings. This country, at the moment, is doing very well economically with very good macro-economic fundamentals and rate of inflation. The economy has been growing over the years, thanks to our colleagues, but one issue …

Mr Muntanga: Which ones?

Mr Hamududu: Our colleagues in the MMD for stabilising the economy over the years. However, they left some work undone which is the issue of appropriate remuneration of the civil servants. The hon. Members on your right must finish that work. 

Interruptions 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, we must really be thankful to the policy of the late President. Moreover, any President who has been in power has done something good. Dr Kaunda, Dr Chiluba, the late Dr Mwanawasa, SC., and Mr Rupiah Banda all did some good things.

Hon. PF Members: No, no.

Mr Hamududu: You are just being political. This will be written a few years from now and you will be ashamed. The immediate past President did some good as well as some bad things.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
{mospagebreak}

Mr Hamududu: Sir, I want to say that the housing empowerment policy of the late Dr Chiluba really helped some civil servants. Those who could not have ordinarily owned a house, at least, own one now. It was impossible for those civil servants to own houses in Ndola, Lusaka and Livingstone. It was because of that housing empowerment policy that they own these houses, although we should have improved that policy after Dr Chiluba left office. 

Mr Chairperson, the problem, in this country, is that we condemn everything done by past leaders. This is a shame for our country, sometimes. Politicians are really bringing shame to this country. We must build on the strength of past leaders. Those in the Executive are not special human beings or angels. I do not see any angel in this House. We are all prone to making mistakes. The most important thing, if we are mature and spiritually sound, is to build on the strength of what we find.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, I want to give you an example. If you go to a bank, today, and get a car loan of K70 million to purchase a corolla, you will be required to pay back about K1.8 million per month. This means that a graduate civil servant cannot even buy a corolla. He/she can only buy an Autorec car from Japan. A Toyota Hilux, single cab, non-4x4, costs K150 million. If you acquire a loan to buy this vehicle, you are required to pay about K4 million interest per month for five years. In this country, a graduate civil servant cannot go to a bank to get a loan to buy a Hilux. Something must be done about this even though the Government keeps saying that there is no money. 

Sir, if you get a mortgage of K300 million, you need to pay about K5 million per month, for over ten years. How can a teacher afford to pay such an amount? The countries to which our teachers run, such as Botswana, are not any richer than our country. It is the way they craft their budgets. This book (lifting the Yellow Book) is growing unnecessarily by the day. There is a lot of wasteful expenditure in it. The clever civil servants, those who are at the top of the hierarchy, have found a way of hiding money in some expenditure lines from which they draw through workshops, travelling and other means.

Mr Chitotela: We will arrest them.

Mr Hamududu: What they are doing is legal because this money is approved by this House. It is up to the Government to clean up the budgeting system. This thing (lifting the Yellow Book again) must be reduced to half. I am doing a project on this with my fellow consultants. I want to show the areas or ways in which public money is being wasted; the money we can save, which is on wasteful expenditure lines, in the Budget. Those on your right are just answering questions without following what is in the Budget. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: A few privileged and well-placed civil servants have found a way of burying money in some budget lines which they get later. Who is building houses in Chalala?

Mr Hamusonde: Civil servants.

Mr Hamududu: I am not against that. I do not demonise people who build houses, but they are only able to do so because they have found a way of accessing Government money. There is nothing wrong with that. What we need to do is deal with the basic salary structure. I look forward to seeing the report of the Salaries Review Commission and find out whether it has gone into the real issues. Let us suspend many of the things and deal with the basic salary structure and lift it from the bottom because the basic salary is what is enjoyed by everybody.

Mr Chairperson, it is very shocking that some civil servants, in this country, have more property than the civil servants in Botswana, which they have legally earned through workshops and monitoring and evaluation activities. I was checking the Yellow Book and I want to show you those budget lines through which civil servants access public funds. We need to monitor and evaluate projects, but we must put a reasonable amount for these activities. The budget lines through which public funds are wasted include monitoring and evaluation and HIV/AIDS activities. These activities have unreasonable amounts. It is true that we must fight HIV/AIDS, but I think there are many institutions doing that. Sensitisation and consultative meetings, staff induction, training needs assessments, workshops and seminars, evaluation of workshops and seminars, staff development, staff orientation and project inspections. In these lines are hidden travelling allowances, per diem and other allowances which are enjoyed by only a few civil servants, hence, the mansions you see in Chalala built by the few who legally earn this money. This is legal because they put these expenditure lines in the Budget and a Government that is not careful is busy approving things without questioning some of these aspects. These particular expenditure lines were put there by some interested civil servants to access the money later. We approve it and, therefore, it is legal. They have not stolen the money to build mansions in Chalala and, with a Government that is not vigilant, that will continue, but at what expense to the rest of the civil servants?

Mr Mweetwa: Quality!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, teachers and nurses should be able to buy a corolla by getting a loan from a bank. Our minimum salaries and wages must be raised. It is even possible to raise the minimum wage to K5 million per month. We, in the United Party National Development (UPND) believe that this is possible. If the Executive is arguing, we are going to produce our own Budget, next year, and show that this can be done. If the Ruling Party fails to do it, we will do it. We have done our calculations.

Interruptions 

Mr Hamududu: The money is here (pointing at the Yellow Book), but they cannot see it. However, we can see it and I have shown you, here.

Interruptions 

Laughter 

The Chairperson: Order, order! 

This is not meant to be a dialogue. The moment you do that, you risk being sent out. So, let us confine ourselves to the rules of the game.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, I was just giving an example of the conditions of service for our graduate civil servants. However, it applies to all civil servants, from a primary school teacher to a nurse, police officer and across the whole spectrum of the Civil Service. I was saying that we can raise our salary structure in the Public Service. A primary school teacher can begin with earning about K3.5 million upon recruitment and be able to access various loan facilities. We hear that there are housing loans in the Government, but they are not enough to go round for everybody. What we need are good salaries and the banks will do their job. If you want to stimulate expenditure in the economy, put the money here because the civil servants are the most widely distributed demographic in this country. If you improve their pay, you will send money to Kaputa, Bweengwa and Shang’ombo through the teachers and nurses who are spending, thereby promoting businesses. That will stimulate the economy. That is what we learnt in economics.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, at the moment, there is no buying power. If you want to put money in people’s pockets, you should first begin with this structure that is captive of the whole country, the Civil Service. 

Mr Chairperson, the issue of saying that conditions are set by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) arises because, when you sit with people from the IMF, you fail to convince them that, without touching the capital expenditure, you can collapse some expenditure lines and provide the money needed to raise salaries. We are not asking for money from the IMF or World Bank. The money is here. Without touching capital expenditure, the main consumption items here, we can create money to pay civil servants well. 

Sir, I left university fifteen years ago and, when you go to most ministries, you will find most of my academic colleagues holding key positions there. I have friends who provide me with privileged information. If you continue paying them at this rate, you will not have provided for them. I want to tell you that in the fiscal year 2012, do not expect anything. The conveyer belt will not provide.

Mr Chairperson, for example, in the Vote for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, there is monitoring and evaluation. What is going to be monitored and evaluated? There is no dip tank built, yet the money is hidden in inductions, workshops, tours and other expenditures that allow only a few civil servants to get allowances. I think we have done our people an injustice. 

Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I have so much respect for you because you come from a regime …

The Chairperson: Can you address the Chair.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, Mr Chairperson. You have really come at a time …

The Chairperson: Can you address the Chairperson by saying ‘he has really come …’ not ‘you …’

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, he has come to this House at a time when things have really gone wrong and he has a mammoth task ahead of him. When he left the Government, the conditions of service were decent. I remember that, in the early 1970s, a teacher could buy a decent car, but that is no longer the case, yet the economy is stronger, today, than it was in the 1970s. We have a greater capacity to improve conditions of service for our workers, but there has been selfishness. When you go to Cabinet Office, today, you will see Pajeros, Toyota GXs and other expensive vehicles for a few people that are trapped in luxury. I do not even see this even in Botswana, Namibia or South Africa, among civil servants. No one is saying you must not drive a GX or a Benz, but you should go to the bank and get a car loan. You should not drive an expensive GRZ vehicle worth K500 million at public expense. That is injustice. We will not deal with poverty that way. 

Mr Chairperson, I want to reiterate that, in the Kaunda regime, the car for an hon. Minister was a Toyota Crown; for an hon. Deputy Minister, a Cressida; and for a Permanent Secretary, a Corona. You can do the same.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, we do not need a GX to move from Cabinet Office to State House or Parliament. You can use a Toyota Hilux, Double Cab, for off road trips, and a Toyota Camry within. Let us show humility as civil servants. We are really servants and we must walk the talk. We are servants of the people and this must be reflected in the cars that we drive.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, if you want to drive the biggest car, you can go and borrow from the bank. No one will stop you from doing that.

Mr Chairperson, in fear of that point of order from my uncle, I will end here.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter 

Hon. Member: Guy Scott.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity …

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kazabu: … to contribute to debate on the policy statement by His Honour the Vice-President on the PSMD, which is the organ through which the Civil Service is managed. Before I get into my debate, I would like to acknowledge and appreciate the contributions made to this Motion by those who have spoken before me. 

Sir, I expected to hear in the policy statement of His Honour the Vice-President issues regarding the remodelling and realignment of the Civil Service.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, Professor Woodrow Wilson, President of the United States of America from 1913 to 1921, identifies three types of the Civil Service. There is what he called a Sharing the Spoils Civil Service, a Career or a Meritorious Civil Service and a Patronage Civil Service. So, as we move forward, through the PSMD, in ensuring that we have the appropriate Civil Service system in place, we have to make a decision as to what type of Civil Service we want to have, whether one in which people simply share the spoils or a merit-based one. For my part, I am nostalgic about the good old days when we had a career Civil Service, which came about through training and regular assessments of civil servants. Sadly, I cannot confidently speak about the same happening now. In those days, one was subjected to a competitive written examination and it was only after excelling in that examination that one joined the Civil Service. For one’s vertical progression, again, one was subjected to some examinations. I become very sad, sometimes, to see a situation in which people who have not really done anything professionally holding very senior positions in the Civil Service. Things cannot be that easy. You must come from somewhere for you to be effective in your position.

Mr Chairperson, this division manages the important resource called human resource. In managing the Civil Service, which is the driving force in implementing Government policies and making them work for the benefit of our people, this division, obviously, is charged with the responsibility of managing the welfare of civil servants and managing performance. Of course, we expect another aspect that concerns workers, wherever they may be, to be effectively managed by the division. I am referring to the issue of discipline. It appears to me that those in supervisory positions do not find the aspect of managing the discipline of our civil servants a sweet cup of tea. They would rather avoid it, yet they do not mind managing the other aspects of the Civil Service. It is an open secret that there are some of our civil servants who have misconducted themselves, yet nothing has been done to them. If at all we are luck to have something done, it is after a very long time. If you are a manager of employee discipline, you know that that kind of intervention has no effect because disciplinary action must be instituted within a reasonable period after the error is committed. Without mentioning names, we have had people in the Civil Service who have erred, but have only been moved from one place to another. That is not the way we should manage workers at any place of work. By transferring this individual, all you are doing is to shift the problem to another place. The time has come for public servants to realise that, if for whatever reason they misconduct themselves, the appropriate rules of discipline will be applied and that they will be dealt with accordingly. I do not care whether one is a nephew to someone. When we are at work, these relationships must not be brought into play.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairman, I heard a brilliant debate from my brother, Hon. Hamududu, regarding civil servants. It is not debatable that we need to look after them very well. However, at the same time, we must spend the people’s money where they are going to see benefits, and the benefits that the public usually derive from the Public Service is a satisfactory service, not a situation in which one has travelled all the way from Shakazabu’s Village, somewhere in Chief Musokotwane’s area, for instance, to come and have a problem sorted out in Lusaka just to find a civil servant who tells him or her that they have not been able to find his or her file. Why should files grow legs? Civil servants can do better for the prosperity and development of our country. The PF Government, which wants to put more money in the people’s pockets, will not overlook the plight of the civil servants, as articulated by Hon. Hamududu, but the latter must also justify whatever is going to be done for them by providing satisfactory services to the people of Zambia.

Mr Chairman, I thought I should make that contribution to this very wonderful debate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo stood up.

The Chairperson: I noticed you but, just for the benefit of all the hon. Members, although you were making your maiden speech, you were considered to have debated under this Vote. Therefore, you cannot debate twice on the same Vote.

Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I am most grateful to the vital contributions by all hon. Members of Parliament who debated this Vote.

Mr Muntanga made very good observations on the laxity of civil servants and public officers in the performance of their public duties. I agree that some of them report for work late and are quick to knock off, even before 1700 hours. They need motivation, a good working environment and improved personal interactions at the workplace. This, of course, does not involve listening to the radio or watching television at work other than during news time. Hon. Members may note that the hon. Minister of Justice has introduced a new culture at his ministry. The hon. Minister reports for work before 0700 hours and opens the office for the staff to report at 0800 hours. Any hon. Member here who wishes to see the hon. Minister of Justice on business may do so at 0700 hours on any working day. He will be there.

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr S. S. Zulu: We welcome constructive criticism and I thank, most sincerely, all hon. Members who have contributed. The way I see it is that we, in the Government, are in the front. In other words, it is like when you are playing soccer: you have a centre forward. On the right wing, you have the MMD Members while on the left wing, you have the UPND Members. You are supposed to make constructive criticism; push the ball to us in the centre or left and we score because you can use a penalty or a free kick.

Laughter

Mr S. S. Zulu: What I mean by scoring the same goal is that we are all trying to uplift the standards of living of our people. Therefore, we are trying to score in the same net, but from different angles. That is why we welcome constructive criticism.

Mr Chairman, on the issue of restructuring, the intention of the Government is not to lay off staff without due consideration. The priority is to redeploy staff to areas in the Public Service where they will be better qualified. 

Sir, the discrepancies in salaries will be addressed under the new salary structures. 

Mr Chairperson, to avoid having ghost workers on the payroll, the PSMD has decentralised the payroll so that each responsible officer ensures that the actual people who are working in institutions are the ones who are on the payroll. Once someone dies or resigns, he is removed from the payroll immediately. 

Mr Chaiperson, the question of staff discipline is very important and efforts are being made to improve it through the issuance of office instructions. There is also the disciplinary code or code of ethics and more sensitisation on the conditions of service and disciplinary code of conduct is necessary.

Sir, Hon. Professor Lungwangwa made very important suggestions to which I listened carefully. I totally agree with him that the PSMD is key to the development of the nation.

I have taken note of his contribution on the new dimension in the role that this division can play. Indeed, it can be transformed into a national training vehicle and a unit for auditing the national training programmes and for establishing a mechanism for quality performance at all levels. He also indicated that there are some public officers or civil servants who use forged certificates. Fortunately, they are not many but, as you know, uttering a false certificate is a criminal offence and any whistleblower who knows of any such incident should, please, report to the authorities, including the hon. Minister of Justice.

Sir, Hon. Hamududu made a vital contribution to this topic, particularly, with respect to the lower salaries of civil servants, such as teachers, nurses, police officers and many others. I agree with him entirely. The position is that the Government shall review salaries and conditions of service within the available resources. To assist civil servants to travel or get mortgages from banks, the Government, through the division, has entered into agreements with banks for special schemes with favourable conditions for civil servants to get reasonable amounts.

Lastly, Hon. Kazabu also made a vital contribution. I agree that it is necessary to have some sort of competitive examinations in the Civil Service as was done before.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.

VOTE 27/01 (Public Service Management Division – Administration – K483,044,292,700).

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 410, Programme 3000, Activity 005 – Other Emoluments – K68,844,455. This year, there was a provision of K363 million, but the provision has reduced to K68 million next year. Secondly, on Programme 3003, Activity 001 – Staff Development – K30,570,000. The amount has reduced from K305 million for last year to K30,570,000. May I know why there are these two reductions?

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Chairperson, on Other Emoluments, the provision has been reduced due to the realignment of housing and retention allowances, which have been embedded in salaries and wages in Programme 3000, Activities 001 to 004. In addition, the number of employees qualifying for leave travel benefits, long service bonus and commutation of leave days has decreased.

Sir, on Staff Development, the decrease is due to realignment of resources to Activities 005 to 008 under the same programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3010, Activity 032 – Answering of Audit Queries – K60,000,000. What constitutes the expenditure of K60 million in answering audit queries?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the K60,000,000 is required to cater for incidental expenses in preparing responses to audit queries. This is an activity that was previously provided for under Programme 3001- General Administration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 411, Programme 3064, Activity 012 – Budget Preparation and Execution – K101,455,375. There was an allocation, this year, of K160 million, which has been drastically reduced to K101,455,375 for next year. May I know why this allocation been reduced this much?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, K101,455,375 is required to cater for the effective preparation and execution of the Budget. The reduction is due to the reduced cost of preparing and executing the Budget through economical utilisation of resources, such as the use of in-house conference facilities.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 27/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 27/02 – (Public Service Management Division – Recruitment and Placement – K3,199,340,432). 

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification Programme 3000, Activity 005 – Other Emoluments – K33,989,181. This activity has been reduced drastically and I am concerned. What do these people not need now?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, I think I might sound monotonous at the end of this exercise, but suffice to say that the reduction is due to the realignment of housing and retention allowances, which have been embedded in Salaries and Wages on Programme 3000, Activity 001. In addition, the reduction is due to the reduced numbers of employees qualifying for leave and travel benefits during the year budgeted for.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 27/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 27/03 – (Public Service Management Division – Human Resources Information and Planning – K4,966,294, 872)

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Page 415, Programme 3001, Activity 003 – Office Administration K307,225,000. We have observed, from what we have approved so far, that there is, generally, an increase in office administration figures. Why, therefore, is there a significant reduction in the allocation for Office Administration in this Programme? What has necessitated the reduction?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the decrease is as a result of the re-alignment of activities, such as national events, procurement and supply management, which have been moved to programmes 3002, 3010, 3003, 3006, 3007 and 3107. I would ask the hon. Member to check those programmes. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3112, Activity 002 – Record Management – K289,986,570. There is an increase of more than 100 per cent for next year. May I know why?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the provision has increased due to the increase in the number of tasks to be undertaken during the year.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 27/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 27/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members indicated to speak.

The Chairperson: I must have moved fast. Sometimes, I am fast and you must stand up quickly. We are done with that Vote.

VOTE 27/05 – (Public Service Management – Technical Services - K26,502,619,828).

The Chairperson: You are looking down. I want to look at your face. I am talking about Mr Simbao.

Mr Lubinda: Abisa.

Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, it is always respectful not to look directly in the face of the …

Laughter

Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3064, Activity 012 – Budget Preparation and Execution – K136, 399, 814. The allocation has increased from as little as K10 million to a whopping K136, 399, 814 for Budget Preparation and Execution. I would like to know what has changed so much between this year and next year. 

Mr Chairperson, may I also have clarification on Programme 3103, Activity 001 – Services to Retired and Separated Employees – Nil. I would like to find out why this activity has not been provided for.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the allocation to Budget Preparation and Execution has increased due to the increase in activities, such as the preparation of individual and departmental work plans. 

Mr Chairperson, there is no allocation under Services to Retired and Separated Employees because this activity has been realigned to Activity 12 under the same Programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3107, Activity 007 - Parking Fees – K9,000,000. What are these all about?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, Programme the K9,000,000 is required for parking vehicles in town and after hours when Government vehicles are parked in townships and other places, such as the airport.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3103, Activity 012 – Process Human Resource Cases – K283,634,922. The increase is from K11 million. I would like to know why there is a huge increase. Further, may I also have clarification on Programme 3103, Activity 013 – Payment of Separation Packages – K297,030,000. The increase from K5.8 million to the current figure is equally too high. 

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, on the increase to Programme 3103, Activity 012, the K283,634,922 is required to cater for processing of retirement cases for employees who have been retrenched from the Public Service, which is a new activity under this programme.

Mr Chairperson, on Programme 3103, Activity 013, the K297,030,000 is required to cater for expenses relating to separation of employees in the Public Service in national interests. The increase is due to the re-alignment of Activity 001, which has increased operational costs in Activity 013 (PRSP). 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 423, Programme 3066, Activity 006 - Sensitisation Seminars – K234,067,754. May I know what sort of seminars these are?

Mr E. C. Lungu perused through the Yellow Book.

The Chairperson: Can you repeat your question.

Mr Namulambe: May I have clarification on Page 423, Programme 3066, Activity 006 – Sensitisation Seminars – K234,067,754. This is a new activity that has just been inserted in the Budget.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your indulgence in this matter. This provision is required to ensure all Public Service employees are sensitised on human resource policies. This is an activity that was previously provided for under the Unit 04, Programme 3142, and Activity 01.

Vote 27/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 27/06 – (Public Service Management Division – PMEC Support Services Department – K12,892,617,932).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3070, Payroll Management and Establishment Control (PMEC), Activity 002 – Payroll Monitoring – K315,722,215. There was no provision this year, but there is a provision for next year. May I know what is involved in payroll monitoring.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, this provision is required to monitor the PMEC systems and ensure that there is efficient and proper management of the same. This is a new Activity that was brought about by the introduction of the Electronic Payment System.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 3000, Activity 001 – Salaries Div. 1 – K2,265,989,880. The amount allocated to this activity in the 2011 Budget was k877 million. Why is there such a big increment?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, I said, earlier that-- you will excuse my monotony—actually, the increase in the provision is due to the realignment of housing and retention allowances under Activity 005, which is Other Emoluments under the same programme. 

In addition, you may wish to know that the increase has been due to the appointing of people into acting capacity, promotions and filling of vacant positions.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.

Vote 27/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 34 – (Human Rights Commission – Headquarters – K10,731,058,517)

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the policy statement and justification for the Estimates of Expenditure for the Human Rights Commission for 2012. 

Sir, the Human Rights Commission is established under the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia. The Commission’s main functions are as follows:

(i)    to investigate any human rights violations;

(ii)    to investigate cases of the maladministration of justice; 

(iii)    to inspect prisons, police cells and other places of detention;

(iv)    to carry out continuing programmes of research, human rights education; and

(v)    to facilitate the rehabilitation of victims of human rights abuse.

Mr Chairperson, the Commission might, if appropriate, also conduct public hearings at which human rights issues or complaints are considered.

Sir, for the year …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the Commission may, as appropriate, also conduct public hearings at which human rights issues or complaints are considered.

Sir, for 2012, the Human Rights Commission has been allocated K10,731,058,517 to implement the above-mentioned functions. 

Mr Chairperson, in 2011, the Commission welcomed five new commissers to join the Chairperson and Vice-Chairperson, who were already in place. The Commission has a full establishment of seven commissioners now. 

Sir, in November, 2011, the commissioners attended a five-day orientation workshop designed to help them understand their role and effectively deliver on their mandate.

Mr Chairperson, in 2012, the Commission will continue its important role of investigating allegations of human rights violations. This is an on-going exercise through which the commission attends to complaints brought by the general public. The commission will also continue to inspect prisons and police cells. This is an important exercise that the commission carries out to continue highlighting the many challenges facing Zambia’s police and prisons services with regard to infrastructure, equipment, and the welfare of inmates or detainees, prison officers and police officers. The inspections are also meant to highlight any progress made in addressing these challenges.

Sir, the commission’s sensitisation and human rights education programmes will also continue in 2012. Human rights education ensures that people are aware of their fundamental rights so that they are more assertive. In particular, for 2012, the commission intends to focus on the rights of vulnerable groups, such as women, children, the elderly and persons with disabilities.

Mr Chairperson, I am happy to report that the commission has continued to successfully implement programmes in the area of children’s rights. In 2012, the commission, among other activities, will carry out on-the-spot checks of detention facilities with a special focus on juveniles and legal literacy campaigns for children in conflict with the law. The commission also intends to strengthen its monitoring and evaluation capacity so that programme implementation is adequately tracked.

Mr Chairperson, the Human Rights Commission’s overall policy for 2012 and beyond is to continue contributing to the human rights discourse in Zambia. Recognising that human rights work requires concerted effort, the commission will continue to collaborate and network with the Government and other stakeholders at various levels.

Sir, I urge this august House to support the 2012 Budget for the Human Rights Commission. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to add my voice and the voice of the people of Choma Central to the debate on this very important Motion. 

Sir, allow me to quickly congratulate my colleague, Mr Malozo Sichone, on his appointment as hon. Minister for the newly-established Muchinga Province. Indeed, I take note of His Excellency the President’s decision to appoint a young person. At least, he is now introducing some energy in that ageing cabinet.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, I hope he will appoint many more because they are needed. Allow me to also congratulate the following hon. Members of Parliament who won the just-ended by-elections: the hon. Member of Parliament for Magoye, Mr Mulomba; the hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde, Mr Sichula; and, indeed, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe, Mrs Masebo, whose victory, I am pleased to note, is choking others. I also wish to state that the taxpayers are chocking for having expended their money unnecessarily on an uncalled-for by-elections, such as the one we had in Chongwe.

Laughter

{mospagebreak}

Mr Mweetwa:  Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Mbuzi: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! 

Just by way of guidance. In future, when you want to raise a point of order, do not hesitate. Do it right away. For today, I will excuse you. 

Mr Mbuzi: Mr Chairperson, is the young man …

Laughter

Mr Mbuzi: … who is failing to debate properly in order to say that the young people are being introduced into the system and, now, things will move better? Is he in order to say things like that and disrespect us, seniors?

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! 

In particular reference to that point of order, the hon. Member is in order to say that the President was right to infuse young people into the good Executive, but he is not in order to refer to the ‘ageing’ Cabinet. Can he continue.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, thank you for your impartial guidance.

Sir, the issue of human rights is very important in the deliberations of this House and I want to qualify my debate by first stating that, for me, human rights are, actually, so important that they sit at the centre of democracy and governance. In fact, it is in pursuance of human rights that politics have been evolving and coming up with terms like ‘good governance’. Good governance, in part, emanates, by and large, from rule of law, which has some fundamental pillars. One of the pillars is equality before the law, the other one is avoidance of arbitrary action and the third, which is of particular concern to me, is the recognition and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms as what forms the foundation of the rule of law.

Mr Chairperson, in debating the motion, I want to state that, lately, I think, the people of Zambia have been disappointed with the failure of the Human Rights Commission to make its full weight felt in terms of what they are constituted to do, which the hon. Minister of Justice and Acting Leader of Government Business has ably outlined. 

Mr Chairperson, we have seen a number of gross violations of human rights in this country and we expect the Human Rights Commission to take the lead in championing the preservation and promotion of the respect for human rights. Of late, personally, I think I have found the commission wanting in that area. If I were to cite recent examples, we have seen various issues of elections-related violence in by-elections. In The Post newspaper of 20th September, 2011, we saw violence that was occasioned on individuals who were perceived to belong to a particular political grouping different from those who felt, for the time being, that they were the ‘Boma’. We have not seen the Human Rights Commission come out very strongly as the number one whistle blower and defender of human rights in the country. 

Mr Chairperson, we have also seen that the rights of prisoners and detainees around the country are being taken for granted by those in authority. Many of these, especially, detainees will be in custody, even on flimsy charges, longer than is legally permissible, yet the commission has not been there to rescue these people. It has failed to monitor and make its presence felt so that the institutions that are charged with the responsibility of looking after detainees or remandees will be aware that there is a monitoring team, and will be forced to do a minimum good job. We have not seen that happen.

Sir, we have also seen issues of police shootings, such as the one that happened in Kalingalinga last week. I have not heard the Human Rights Commission come out very strongly to highlight this apparent trend that is growing unabated. The commission should come out very strongly on the organs of Government, such as the police, so that this trend can, now, begin to go down.

Mr Chairperson, I have also observed that the need for the human rights to be respected is, actually, increasing around the country making it necessary for the commission to be more visible on the ground. We have seen that issues of domestic violence are on a rise. We have seen issues of early marriages. The issue of young girls being forced into marriages is on the rise and this is infringing on their human rights. We have also seen issues of child abuse getting worse. This means that the Human Rights Commission’s presence around the country is supposed to be more pronounced now than ever before. 

Mr Chairperson, due to these concerns I have outlined, I have delved into an exercise to find out why the Human Rights Commission appears to be limping in discharging the mandate for which it was constituted. I have discovered that, in the successive years since its inception, the Human Rights Commission has been faced with a severe lack of funding. Also, the little funding that has been availed them has been quite erratic. Despite the mandate of the Human Rights Commission being recited here, year in year out, during the presentation of the Budgets, such as this one, it continues to face serious challenges. 

Mr Chairperson, Firstly, the commission cannot be appreciated countrywide because it has not decentralised to the now ten provinces. It only exists in five provinces namely: Northern, Eastern, Southern, Lusaka and Western. In the face of growing human rights violations, this is the time that we would expect the commission’s presence across the country would be more visible. 

Mr Chairperson, lawyers are the ones who help in issues of human rights violations. However, between Lusaka and Livingstone, for example, there is no law firm. There is also no law firm between Lusaka and Mongu. I am very sure that there is no law firm between Lusaka and Chipata, either. The only persons, therefore, who deal with human rights violations in such areas are the police, who, I think, are not well qualified to deal with such issues. The Government should, now, take this matter seriously and fund the Human Rights Commission because it has to attend to a very important aspect of governance. This is why, when we talk about human rights in the context of the Constitution, Part III, which deals with them is not only provided for like any other Article, but is entrenched in it, because the issues contained in it are very important. 

Mr Chairperson, this House needs to know that, currently, the commission, because of poor funding over the years, is actually operating on an old fleet of vehicles all of which were bought using donor funds. If the Government bought any, it must be only one, yet it comes here every year to talk about a Budget when it is not even looking seriously into the plight of the commission so that it can carry out the mandate for which it was constituted. 

Mr Chairperson, this House also needs to know that, currently, the Human Rights Commission is facing challenges in terms of office accommodation. Even if it decentralised, it would need office space. Even as I speak, I am aware that the establishment of the commission is about 130 members of staff or there about, but it currently only operates on one third of its staff establishment. It only has about fifty-two members of staff, meaning that a department that is supposed to be manned by ten officers may end up being manned by one. These are glaring irregularities that I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Justice to attend to. I want to place on record that this allocation is not enough. It is the same budget that has made the commission to fail to decentralise to all the provinces for the last so many years since its establishment in 1996. 

Mr Chairperson, I urge the hon. Minister to seriously consider increasing funding to the Human Right Commission in view of the now-expanded role that it has to play around the country. Even when you talk about the areas where the commission is present, like Southern Province, it is only present in Livingstone. Without adequate funding, it means that it will not be present in Choma, Monze, Mazabuka and many other places. This goes for the rest of the country. How, therefore, can it discharge that mandate that you laid out very well to this House; that of monitoring human rights violations? 

Mr Chairperson, I wish to place on record the point that this Government should provide enough funds in the Budget if it is serious about empowering the Human Rights Commission so that it can discharge the full mandate for which it was constituted. I would like to urge the Government to take this advice. It is free, but serious. We do not want a situation in which, next time, when you are no longer in the PF, but come back to this House in another party, you want to appear cleverer than the people in the party of which you were a part, … 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: … yet you did not do what you should have done when you had the opportunity. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate currently on the Floor. 

I would like to thank the hon. Minister for a well-presented speech. Indeed, the Human Rights Commission is a very important wing of the Government. One of the duties of the commission, as the hon. Minister put it, is to investigate human rights violations.

Mr Chairperson, lack of access to information is a human rights violation. There is need to emphasise the point that access to information, public participation and accountability are closely-related components of a human rights based budget policy. However, neither the Budget Speech nor the Yellow Book has defined how citizens may hold the Government officials accountable for Budget-related acts and omissions that infringe upon fundamental human rights. 

Mr Chairperson, I agree with my colleague that the Human Rights Commission is inadequately funded. These paltry allocations that have remained stagnant for the past three years suggest that the Government is not serious about addressing the widespread graft that continues to undermine the realisation of individual rights and national development. 

Mr Chairperson, the Government should learn to consult with stakeholders when designing new accountability mechanisms that are capable of protecting the right of each Zambian to benefit equitably from the public financing of poverty reduction programmes. 

Mr Chairperson, I would like to ask the Government to create an autonomous office of a development person with the authority to adjudicate complaints against it in the event that it fails to discharge its duties under its national development plans. I would also like to urge the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to establish independent human rights offices within the ministry to oversee the integration of Zambia’s human rights commitments in the entire development process and to adjudicate citizen complaints related to the maladministration of the Budget. 

Mr Chairperson, that was my contribution.

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the chance to contribute to the debate currently on the Floor of the House. My contribution will be very brief. 

In supporting the budget to the Human Rights Commission, I would like to just caution this important commission to be alert so that the issue of human rights is not used as gateway for some foreign cultures that might dilute our valued local cultural. 

Sir, we are a Christian nation that has lately seen some international pressure coming from some of our donor countries regarding the need for us to respect certain human rights. In this case, I am talking about gay rights. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: We need to be responsible enough to protect the values of this nation despite the fact that we are disadvantaged economically. 

Sir, I, therefore, request the Human Rights Commission to be alert, so that, as some of these things are being pushed onto other countries, we are not blackmailed into adopting  them through their call for us to respect human rights. I also want to request the commission to be more proactive when it comes to protecting the rights of workers, who are abused left, right and centre by some investors. It is very important that the commission takes a keen interest in the need to protect our citizens. 

With these few words, Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, I want to state that, in view of the amount of work that is required, certainly, the Human Rights Commission requires more funding. With inadequate funding, one can only come up with inadequate information.

As people’s representatives, we receive complaints regarding, particularly, children’s rights. In order for the younger generation to appreciate that with every right there is an obligation, and that there has to be a boundary where one’s right ends and another’s starts, there is a need for information that is sent out to be repeated consistently. If it is not repeated, only half of the information will be understood. Therefore, one finds, for example, in our schools, our teachers facing difficulties when trying to control the younger generation. On many occasions, the young people equate the issue of discipline to a negation of their rights. This is why I am saying that the commission needs more funding. 

Sir, if the work of the commission dictates that it requires supplementary funding, then the hon. Minister of Justice must not shy away from requesting it.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue that I want to bring out, other than the aspect of inadequate funding, is the need to link the work of the commission to our tradition. By and large, the traditional aspects of rights in this country hinge on decree. Therefore, the commission must engage the traditional leaders and educate them that the time is gone when they could just dictate what the people could do and not do. The traditional leaders need to explain to the people why certain things should be done or not done.

Sir, in addition to sensitisation, the Executive must be seen to act when observations are made regarding the state of certain things. For example, when complaints are received with regard to the state of our prisons, let there be a visible improvement in the state of our prisoners. When people make observations with regard to prisoners’ rations, let there be efforts to do something about the complaint. Let us not take a business-as-usual approach. Why should we be expending a lot of money on the work of institutions like the Human Rights Commission when the disclosure of certain human rights violations is never met with action? 

Mr Chairperson, perhaps, in next year’s policy statement, the hon. Minister of Justice should indicate some achievements that will be made as a result of acting upon the revelations of the Human Rights Commission. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Estimates of Expenditure on the Human Rights Commission Vote.

In supporting this Vote, may I say that there is a slight increase in its budgetary allocation from K10 billion to K10.7 billion. The Government should adequately support its noble work. The commission should be given its funding in full, not in bits and pieces.

Sir, when the Human Rights Commission was formed, many people admired it as a good organisation to work for. Many police officers actually wanted to be attached to this commission. Alas, today, the commission is in a deplorable state. I wonder why we form institutions that we are not willing to support. The commission used to perform very well when it was being supported by many foreign countries and the United Nations.

Mr Chairperson, the other point I wish to highlight to the commission and to the hon. Minister of Justice is one regarding the commission’s serious mandate of protecting the human rights of the citizens of this country.

Sir, the commission has had its own challenges. Despite having limited funding, I still think that there are cases in which it could have done more. There are cases that I can highlight to show that there are occasions when the commission has failed us with regards to ensuring that human rights are respected. During the Kasama riots, the police …

Hon. Government Members: Mansa!

Mr Mufalali: … used live ammunition. Yes, Mansa. I never heard the commission voice out its concern regarding the use of live ammunition during the riots. I heard that the police also used live ammunition to clear a fracas in Mazabuka. I do not know how much work the commission has done regarding that incident. I also know that the commission did not seriously express its concerns regarding the way the police handled the Mongu riots. With those incidents in mind, one can tell that the commission has failed us in one way or another sometimes. It needs to come out strongly against certain issues.

The recent Kalingalinga incident is similar to the ones I am just from referring to. I think that, within the police, there are some people who are not well trained. There is no way a gun can just go off and end up killing someone. Life is precious and must be guarded jealously.

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: The Human Rights Commission should stand firm when dealing with issues concerning human life. Governments have been known to become tyrannical if their operations go unchecked. The commission should be bold enough to stand up to the challenges of the incidents that I am just from referring to.

Sir, I know that, even if the commission is not truly independent, it can still stand up to speak to the truth. It should be able to stand up and challenge any human rights violations by any ministry or government department. If it keeps quiet, we will start doubting it ability to fulfil its mandate. Today, we are approving the budgetary allocation to the commission in order for it to protect the rights of the Zambian people. If it keeps quiet when violations are made, then we will start getting worried. It must stand up and challenge our leaders on issues to do with any human rights violations. 

Mr Chairperson, for a long time now, the commission has not spoken out against the congestion in prisons, which has been caused by the failure by judges to make their judgements promptly. The commission has also been quiet about the filthy conditions which exist in prisons. We want it to speak out against any human rights violations. 

Sir, today, we are not supposed to allow the appointment of those who were involved in the Mongu killings to high offices. We know some of the commanders who were involved in the Mongu Killings. They have even been promoted. Surprisingly, the commission has remained quiet on these promotions. It has not even tried to stop them. 

Mr Kaingu: Bulela!  

Mr Mufalali: We want it to stand up against such things. We should not allow a commander who violated human rights in Mongu to be promoted to the position of commissioner or any other senior position in the Government. Those who violate human rights are not supposed to have equal share with those who respect them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Those with blood dripping from their hands should be brought to book.

Mr Kaingu: Bulela, bulela!

The Chairperson: Order, order! Please, let us not turn this Chamber into some political platform. There is no ‘bulela, bulela’ here.

Laughter 

The Chairperson: The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I want to ask the Human Rights Commission and the Ministry of Justice to take note of those who have violated human rights in this country. Those who were in command and ordered the police to shoot should be brought to book. Police officers are trained on how to defend themselves or retreat if they realise that their lives are in danger. Shooting at unarmed people must be the last resort. If the commission fails to speak against this vice, we are doomed because it is the one that should guarantee our rights.

Mr Chairperson, I want to see this commission expanded and, therefore, appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to consider increasing funding to it. The vehicles that most officials of the commission use, many of which I know, have been around for the past ten years. Let us empower these officers because this commission is part of good governance. With this commission fully functioning, we are able to have good governance in the country and even reduce on corrupt practices.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I end my debate. 

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on this very important Head. It is true that human rights are at the core of democracy and good governance, as the hon. Member, who is just from speaking, has said. I note what hon. Members have said about the Government, particularly the previous one, appearing to pay only lip service to matters relating to this very important institution.

Hon. MMD Members: Question!

Mr S. S. Zulu: Sir, there is a saying that one’s freedom ends where another’s nose begins. Hon. Members are aware that the Government has established a committee of experts to draft the Constitution of Zambia, which will stand the test of time. Therefore, it is entirely up to the Zambian people to decide what rights Zambia will recognise in the Bill of Rights. In this regard, the issue of gay and lesbian rights will have to be addressed through this process. So, we will have to wait and see what the people of Zambia want on that very issue.

Sir, I have listened to hon. Members’ debates and their basic theme is that this very important institution is very under-funded. I am sure that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is listening. The commission needs more money. Therefore, all I can say, at the moment, is that the Government is listening.

I thank you, Sir.

VOTE 34/01 – (Human Rights Commission – Headquarters – K10,731,058,517). 

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I would like some clarification on page 488, Unit 01, Programme 4001, Activity 001 – Personnel Related Costs – K381,779,500. I see a reduction from K588,860,000. Why is that so? Then, on page 489, there is, also, Programme 4029, Activity 004 – Research Administration. There was a provision of K25,000,000, this year, but there is no provision for next year. Why is this so?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 4001, Activity 001, the K381, 779,500 is for the payment of honorariums to all the seven commissioners on a monthly basis, which are not paid under personal emoluments. The decrease is due to the fact that the personnel-related expenses for management staff have been budgeted for under Activity 003 of the same programme. The other question was on page 488, but I have forgotten the activity.

The Chairperson: It is page 489, Programme 4029, Activity 004 – Research Administration. There was K25,000,000, this year, but there is no allocation for next year.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the activity has been suspended, in 2012, to beef up the monitoring and evaluation activities. Any other question?

I thank you.

Laughter 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister is very ready for questions.

Laughter 

Mr Pande: Sir, I seek clarification on page 489, Programme 4028, Activity 003 – Inspection of Prisons – K170, 000,000. This is a very good provision, but I would like to know which prisons will be inspected and if Kasempa Prison is included.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Chairperson, I would not be in a position to state, exactly, which prisons will be visited during the year, but I am sure that the management of the commission will, from time to time, make visits to all the prisons in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: I have been observing, for some time now, the answers by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and I must commend him because, I think, they have been really up to the point. I want to encourage other hon. Members of the Executive to do the same.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

34/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

{mospagebreak}

VOTE 26 – (Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism – K109,863,992,124). 

The Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism (Mr Lubinda): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for according me the opportunity to present the policy statement in support of the 2012 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism. 

Sir, as the House might be aware, the mandate of the ministry encompasses three distinct, but mutually complementing sectors, namely, information, broadcasting and tourism. The realignment of the ministry to bring tourism together with information and broadcasting has been after the realisation that our tourism sector has lacked the requisite publicity and marketing. The sector has been treated to rhetoric and lack of serious promotional interventions.

Mr Chairperson, as hon. Members of this august House are aware, Zambia is endowed with a vast range of tourism products ranging from wildlife resources, to be found in the wonderful national parks, game management areas and a growing number of game ranches; cultural resources, including traditional ceremonies and artistic expressions; and numerous heritage resources. These products require, both domestic and international marketing, which can and should be done with the direct involvement of the purveyors of information, both print and electronic. It is the PF Government’s hope that this relationship will be mutually beneficial to both the tourism and the information sectors.

Mr Chairperson, the total 2012 Budget estimates for my ministry is K109.8 billion, out of which Personal Emoluments and related expenditure account for K9.4 billion, representing 8.5 per cent, while non-PEs account for K100.4 billion, representing 91.5 per cent.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order! 

I can see that the hon. Minister is being distracted. Let us always consult quietly and listen because, when it comes to questions, sometimes, that is when we get into problems if we did not listen attentively. 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, the Government’s overall developmental agenda is poverty reduction through wealth and employment creation. In keeping with this agenda, the ministry for which I am responsible has ensured that the allocation of resources, in the 2012 Budget, reflects the priority placed on programmes with the greatest impact on the national economy and contribution to the improvement of livelihoods of citizens, both in the medium term and the long term.

To maximise the use of resources and achieve meaningful progress, we have placed resources on areas that will grow the information and tourism sectors. In the information sector, we intend to do this by freeing the media, both private and public, from undue and unwarranted political manipulation. We intend to enhance the process of media law reforms, decentralisation of the Government print media, promotion of investment in both the electronic and print media, and the promotion of the utilisation and exploitation of information communication technologies. In the tourism sector, on the other hand, we shall focus on tourism infrastructure development; tourism promotion and marketing; product quality enhancement; enhancement of prime destinations, beginning with the tourism capital, Livingstone; and product development promotion, starting with meetings, incentives conventions and events facilities (MICE).

Mr Chairperson, allow me, now, to present my statement, by sector, starting with tourism.

Mr Chairperson, in 2012, my ministry will focus on tourism development by:

(a)    conducting a comprehensive review of the tourism and hospitality policy and legislation through a participatory process involving a wide spectrum of stakeholders;

(b)    setting and implementing the accommodation standards and grading system;

(c)    providing support and guidelines to local authorities on the development of tourism sites and events;

(d)    developing and launching the Livingstone Strategic Development Plan as a way of setting the ground for the launching of the city as a tourist capital;

(e)    promoting investments in the MICE facilities in Livingstone, in time for the hosting of the 20th General Assembly of the World Tourism Organisation (WTO) in 2013;

(f)    increasing tourism promotion and marketing internationally and domestically; and 

(g)    promoting investments in the Northern Circuit so as to capitalise on the resources that have, so far, been invested in the Kasaba Bay Airport.

Mr Chairperson, the need to fully develop our exceptional tourism products cannot be over-emphasised and it is the intention of the ministry to encourage local and foreign investors alike to establish tourism enterprises, particularly, in areas with untapped and under-exploited natural tourism sites. This shall be done, inter alia, by opening up new areas through the development of access roads.

Mr Chairperson, Zambia, with its superior and unique tourism resources, has not been sufficiently and efficiently marketed at international, regional and local levels. The number of tourist arrivals and receipts from the tourism sector have both been unsatisfactory. Consequently, the contribution of the sector to economic growth and poverty reduction has not matched its great potential. In view of this, my ministry will explore ways of ensuring Zambia’s visibility on the international tourism market. In this regard, we will facilitate promotional activities in collaboration with the private sector to drive domestic tourism. We have already started engaging friendly countries to partner with us in marketing our tourism abroad. In this regard, K9.8 billion has been ear-marked for tourism promotion and marketing, both locally and internationally. It might be worthwhile for the House to note that, in the pursuit of opening up Zambia for enhanced international arrivals, this Government has granted licences to a number of major airlines to fly in and out of Zambia. Over the next few months, at least, three major airlines of international repute will service Zambia, bringing tourists to our beautiful tourist destinations. We shall endeavour to partner with these airlines so that they carry our promotional materials such as literature, music and videos on their flights.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is also committed to providing an enabling environment to improve the profitability of the private sector in tourism. To this end, it will, among other things, continue developing infrastructure in the Northern Circuit and the Greater Livingstone Area as it is critical to attracting both public and private sector investment. In this regard, the rehabilitation of the heritage infrastructure and museums as well as construction and development of cultural tourism villages, which was commenced by our ministry before the realignment, will be completed in 2012. The Government has, therefore, ear-marked K8.6 billion, in the 2012 Budget, for the development of these core activities on tourism-related infrastructure development.

Mr Chairperson, the Government further recognises the need for strategic short to medium-term programmes that will support tourism diversification and growth, which will lay the foundation for long-term benefits. My ministry has, therefore, provided for the enhancement of the status of Livingstone as a tourism capital and will, in this regard, conduct an inventory of the infrastructure available, remodel the city and develop a strategic development plan in order to achieve this goal. My ministry has, further, provided for the promotion of sub-sectors and will, in 2012, commence preparations for hosting the 20th Session of the General Assembly of the WTO. My ministry will also engage in public awareness and sensitisation campaigns on this and other development programmes in order to raise awareness amongst the citizenry on the Government’s commitment to the development of tourism. The Government has, therefore, ear-marked K10.29 billion in the 2012 Budget for tourism development programmes, including awareness campaigns. 

Mr Chairperson, economic development is vital for any nation. Nonetheless, the extent to which that development is sustainable depends on the extent to which the natural resources are renewed. It should be achieved with reduced dependence on the extractive industry and increased sustainable exploitation of natural resources. In this regard, the tourism sector is well-placed to offer a sustainable alternative that will stimulate economic development, generate wealth, foster rural development and create employment. The programmes contained in the 2012 Budget are aimed at ensuring that the tourism sector begins to actualise its potential.

Mr Chairperson, let me now move on to information and broadcasting. A skilled media is society’s tool for providing citizens with the information they need to make informed choices and decisions. Sustained Government reform and poverty reduction, especially, in countries like ours, can only be realised if and when reliable information is provided to citizens.

Mr Chairperson, today’s journalists deal with a large quantity and variety of information, sometimes, with a number of complexities. Training is, therefore, essential for our staff to effectively communicate such information to our people.

Mr Chairperson, we took over the ministry at a time when the media in Zambia was extremely polarised, mainly, due to the overbearing nature of the politicians who superintended over this sector. As I present the Budget Estimates for 2012 for my ministry, I wish to report that we have beleaguered Government media houses due to a chain of litigations arising from defamatory statements that they carried against those then in the Opposition. Some of these media houses have already requested the ministry to assist them with settling cases outside court and by meeting the legal fees and litigation costs. The sad reality that confronts this ministry is that, unfortunately, there is no allocation for expenditure on such very sad matters.

Mr Chairperson, we, in this ministry, and the PF Government, in general, are determined to restart the process of media reforms so as to ensure that the Zambian media operates as professionally as possible and to encourage further investment in this sector. In the meantime, the ministry has already made progress in ensuring that the existing media laws are enforced. To this end, I will, in the next few days, announce the Independent Broadcasting Authority Board (IBA) so as to quickly operationalise it.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Currently, we are studying the proposed structure of the IBA, which will soon be submitted to the Management Division of Cabinet Office for approval. In this regard, the K1 billion that this House allocated in the 2011 Budget for the operationalisation of the IBA, which has remained unutilised, to date, because of the non-establishment of the authority will be released to the authority before the close of the year so that, next year, this ministry will not require much more than K50 million in support to the authority. That is in keeping with our spirit of being prudent in our utilisation of public resources. In the same vein, the ministry will soon announce the boards of the Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail. The board of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation shall be presented to this House for ratification as is required by the law. We have spent ample time on making quality consultations so that we end up with quality personnel to manage the affairs of these institutions, which we intend to turn into quality public institutions.

Mr Chairperson, in order to increase media outreach, my ministry intends to procure motor vehicles for provincial and district offices to enable the staff to increase dissemination to and collection of information from the periphery which, unfortunately, is not sufficiently covered currently.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry acknowledges the need for the decentralisation of the print media. In this respect, it is committed to studying the viability of the decentralisation process. Two pilot projects on the printing presses have reached advanced stages. The Chipata Printing Press Project will be commissioned during the first quarter of 2012 while funds have been set aside in the 2012 Budget for infrastructure development and the procurement of accessories for the Kasama Printing Press.

Mr Chairperson, the scale and complexity of technology has driven the ministry’s need to move in step with the rest of the world. My ministry is necessitated to link the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) district offices to the wide area network through the fibre-optic cable. This will help in timely access to information from rural areas. The Government has set aside money for the networking exercise using the fibre-optic cable and the maintenance of networks in districts that are already connected to the network.

As I conclude, let me inform you that the current wave of digital broadcasting, as mandated by the International Communication Union, requires that countries move to the digital platform by 2015. In this regard, the ministry has allocated K25 billion to the digital migration exercise to ensure that we meet the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) deadline of 2013.

In terms of radio reception which, I have to admit, is extremely pathetic in far-flung areas, even in areas along the line of rail, such as Choma, we intend to improve the situation and have provided K15.7 billion for the procurement of Frequency Modulation (FM) Transmitters. This means that, in 2012, the ZNBC will embark on the installation of these transmitters in all the districts. This will greatly improve reception in the country.

Sir, the ministry intends to allow the public media to be independent and compete with the private media. Therefore, some resources have been allocated for support to media institutions, most of which will go towards strengthening their capacity, especially ZANIS, at the provincial and district levels. We shall also continue to co-operate with Parliament to ensure that the coverage of Parliament Radio is expanded to include more districts.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is determined to support a healthy media sector that delivers social and economic information to a wide audience in a meaningful and useful way. Such support includes developing an enabling environment in which the media can operate. 

One area that has great potential for growth, in Zambia, but has been little talked about in this House, is the film industry. What is lacking is an enabling environment and support mechanisms. To correct this situation, the ministry intends to engage actors, film producers and other stakeholders in Zambia and other countries to conclude the Film Policy before the end of the year.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I now wish to request all hon. Members of this august House to support this ministry. What we present in the 2012 estimates are figures that are aimed at growing a very important economic sector of our country, tourism, and at ensuring that we give citizens unfettered access to information. I, therefore, request the support of all hon. Members to the budget of the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi):  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

As I stand to support the budget for this ministry, as proposed by the hon. Minister, there are some remarks to be made. The hon. Minister has made very important pronouncements which, if implemented, would go a long way in improving access to information, broadcasting as well as ensuring that the tourism sector is used as a tool for employment creation and poverty reduction. It was interesting to listen to the hon. Minister when he made reference to the MMD’s rhetoric on the sectors that were mentioned, such as information, broadcasting and tourism. However, I want to caution the hon. Minister that, three to four years down the line, the people of Zambia will also be able to judge whether or not what the PF Government is talking about is also mere rhetoric. This, however, will only be done if the ministry takes tips in correcting some of the mistakes that were made under the MMD Government.

Mr Chairperson, one way of keeping people in perpetual poverty is denying them access to information. People who are poor have no access to information. As a result, they are not able to make informed choices and, therefore, continue to wallow in poverty. 

Mr Chairperson, I would have also expected the hon. Minister to make reference to the Freedom of Information Bill, which has been under discussion for some time now. It was an issue under the MMD and, I believe, it is still an issue even now. The impression created was that the Freedom of Information Bill was about the private media and the Government. I want to submit that access to information in this country, through the implementation of the Freedom of Information Bill, is very important. In this country, it is extremely difficult for anyone to have access to information which, ideally, should be in the public domain. An example is a situation where you are carrying out a research on the how public funds are being utilized or budget-tracking, you cannot walk into any department or ministry and have access to information. All information is treated as though it were confidential, yet this is information that should be in the public domain. It is for this reason that Zambians are not able even to participate openly in the fight against corruption. They have no easy access to information that can be used to make decisions even in terms of stopping certain activities in the public sector that ensure that deny the poor access to services.

Mr Chairperson, it is true that the majority of people who wallow in abject poverty are those who reside in rural areas. It is there that people are unable to have access to any form of information. I am glad to hear the hon. Minister make a pronouncement on how the PF Government intends to proceed, particularly, with the appointment of the IBA and ZNBC boards and other such bodies. However, we would like to see a situation in the media in which people in the rural areas can have free access to alternative sources of information, unlike the current situation in which the only source of information is the ZNBC. We all know how the ZNBC was used as a propaganda tool under the previous administration. It is also possible ...

Interjections

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, I need your protection.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! 

Please, let him debate without interruption.

You may continue.

Mr Mucheleka: … at this early stage, for the PF Government to bask in this glory or point fingers at the previous administration. What I want to see are practical steps taken that will show that this Government means well. Zambians would appreciate if the PF Government goes ahead and implements some of the policy pronouncements that have been made by the hon. Minister.

Apart from what the hon. Minister said, I remember, when I was growing up, we used to have, in rural areas, alternative sources of information. At the provincial level, for example, people would have news from a local perspective. If you went to Livingstone or Mongu, for example, you would find a local Government newspaper reporting on issues from a local perspective but that, unfortunately, is no longer there. As the hon. Minister talks about revamping the ZANIS provincial offices, I would like to encourage him to look at how best the people in the rural areas can also have access to alternative sources of information in local languages as opposed to depending on one source, in this case, the ZNBC, which happens to be very discredited. The perception by the public is that it is so even now. It will take a long time for people to have confidence in both the print and electronic public media. When we see the steps that the hon. Minister talked about being implemented, then Zambians will believe that the PF Government means well.

Mr Chairperson, the media reforms that the hon. Minister talked about are long overdue. Zambians look forward to a time when even the airwaves will be freed. In rural areas, there are quite a number of impressive local radio stations that were facilitated by the MMD. However, their editorial policies showed that there was always an invisible hand in control. We want to see a situation where the local radio stations are allowed to broadcast and disseminate information without undue hindrance by the powers that be. We want to see a situation in which local radio stations are allowed to broadcast without hindrance.

Mr Chairperson, having said that in support of the Budget, I would also like to appeal to the hon. Minister that, in Lubansenshi Constituency, Luwingu, people have heard so much about Radio Phoenix, QFM Radio and all the other radio stations that are operating in Lusaka which, in a way, are not as restricted in terms of what they broadcast relative to what is obtaining in the rural areas. We would like to have these private media houses given licences to broadcast to the whole country instead of only the ZNBC.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to turn to tourism. It is very true that the tourism sector can, indeed, be used as a tool for employment creation and poverty reduction. It is another means that the Government can use to diversify the economy. However, for that to happen, there is a need for sufficient funding to this important ministry. When I look at the 2012 Budget, I still feel that this sector is inadequately funded.

Mr Chairperson, as the hon. Minister talks about all the initiatives and incentives in the tourism sector, much more still needs to be done, especially with regard to giving incentives to the private sector in Zambia to encourage local participation in this important sector. As you give incentives to local investors, it is also important to consider that, probably, they may not be able to raise sufficient capital to make large investments in the sector and may require to partner with foreign investors who may bring in capital. As that is being promoted, there is a need to protect or to give incentives aimed at advantaging local investors. Where you are to bring in foreign investors, it should be a Government policy that they enter partnerships with the local investors. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister mentioned tourism marketing, which is very important. However, it is very important to also know the role that Zambia’s missions abroad can play in this undertaking. I remember very well, when I was young, under the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government, that the then Zambia National Tourist Board had offices in embassies and used to appoint officers with specialised skills in tourism to help market Zambia’s tourism. Unfortunately, that died under the MMD because of patronage. They …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: … started appointing cadres to missions abroad to promote tourism. There is a danger there. Likewise, the PF might find itself in a similar situation.

Hon. Government Member: Ah!

Mr Mucheleka: I seriously would like to advise the hon. Minister that he can use the missions abroad for tourism marketing by ensuring that he places, in those embassies that they are opening, people with competencies and skills to promote tourism, as opposed to sending cadres in the Foreign Service because he can replace one …

The Chairperson: Order! 

Your time is up.

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I would like to say that I fully support this Budget line because tourism is an important sector which, I believe, has lagged behind in this country for many years. I wish the new hon. Minister all the best so that we push it to the greater heights it is supposed to be. There is a reason for it. Previously, tourism was not considered an economic sector, until the MMD came into office and made it one.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: After that, it was also rated the second most important sector after agriculture. I hope that the PF Government will maintain and support it. I have no doubt that the enthusiastic and dynamic hon. Minister will be able to make it progress, especially, now that it has been unbundled with some of the areas, such as environment and forestry, having been removed. We should, therefore, be able to concentrate on promoting tourism. This is what has been lacking in the country. I notice that there is an allocation of K10 billion to that activity. Although it is not enough, it is not a bad start. It should be able to see our country begin to be promoted. We should learn from countries like Singapore, which has a population of 3 million people and only beaches for tourist attractions, but gets up to 10 million tourists whereas, in Zambia, we have so many tourist attractions, yet we do not attract that many tourists. 

Hon. Minister, we wish you all the best in promoting the attractions so that tourism could contribute more to the gross domestic product (GDP) of this country than it does currently. That possibility is there. I have no doubt that you will be able to do that with the team that you have. You have a very able man at the Zambia Tourist Board, Mr Felix Chaila, whom I know from some time back. He is capable of promoting tourism in this country.

Sir, as regards museums, I am not sure whether they are under your ministry or the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. However, I strongly believe that they should be under tourism. If they are not, they should be brought back because they have to do with tourism. Nonetheless, matters of heritage can be under the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. 

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to briefly talk about the media. I am grateful that you have been making pronouncements of a free media. You have publicly indicated this to the media houses and have made changes to the heads of the public media institutions so that they practice freely and professionally. Alas, this is not happening. I know of cases where they have not done so. I do not know whether there is great self-censorship or, maybe, there is a need for the hon. Minister to emphasise that they should not engage in self-censorship, particularly the ZNBC. I am a bit disappointed with the head there, whom I know very well, because of what has been happening there. I declare interest, because I have been covered three times, and I indicated to the reporters that I doubted whether what I said would be featured on the ZNBC. Indeed, it has not been featured, to date.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Pande: I do not know whether that is self-censorship. The hon. Minister has done his best to make pronouncements. As I know that there is some self-censorship, I would like to advise the hon. Minister to find out what is happening because there are times when people who go there are not featured. It is important to take care of that.

Sir, regarding ZANIS, I am happy that you have made pronouncements on how you would like to improve it. Yes, ZANIS is a very good service, particularly in the rural areas. They depend on ZANIS for communication, and need the support of the ministry.

With these very few words, I support the Vote.

{mospagebreak}

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Chairperson, to start with, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism for the sober manner in which he has presented the policy statement of the ministry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Chairperson, secondly, though he has said a number of things, I want to focus on tourism.

Sir, just like anyone else who is familiar with tourism in Zambia, I will have difficulties in discussing this ministry as regards the component of tourism because of the re-alignment that has been made. I am still of the view that institutions such as the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) should have fallen under the Ministry of Tourism …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: … because, for a very long time, tourism will continue to rely on our wildlife estate. Therefore, it is only logical that the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism becomes responsible for this very important tourism resource.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: Mwamvela a Vice-President!

Mr Belemu: If they do not agree with me, today, they will agree with me in the next one year. 

Similarly, as Hon. Pande mentioned, when it comes to institutions like the National Heritage Conservation Commission, I think it is a misplacement for it to compete for space or attention with the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, and Acts like the Witchcraft Act, when there are very important tourism resources.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: It is, therefore, important that the Government reviews this issue, and probably, the hon. Minister responsible for this ministry must prevail upon his colleagues to do a correct alignment sooner than later.

Sir, we must also remember that the effects of tourism, in terms of what we do now, will continue to be felt in the next ten or twenty years to come. The earlier we re-align the sectors the better.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to commend the ministry for increasing funding to this very important sector. However, the funding to the tourism sector, particularly, marketing, must be predictable in the next few years so that the marketing activities are planned for. One of the problems there was in the past was the difficulty in predicting how much would be allocated to the sector in each Budget. We need to cultivate and develop markets. We must bear in mind that to develop new markets, such as we are trying to do now, in the East, will take a few years. With unpredictable funding, it is very difficult for the tourism planners to quickly work on a long-term strategic plan.

Mr Chairperson, there has been this myth, just like there has been one with ZAWA, that the Zambia Tourism Board (ZTB) can undertake commercial activities and raise resources to aid or support the marketing of the country for tourism. This can never be possible and has never been worldwide. If the officers at ZTB are able to raise money using commercial ventures, I imagine that they would do it for themselves as opposed to raising it on behalf of the Government and, later, give it to the Government so that we can undertake marketing. Marketing of tourism is very important. Actually, it is part of our national identity and of national branding. Therefore, the Government must fully fund the activities that are related to tourism marketing.

Mr Chairperson, the other point I would like to make is that we have taken note of the increased funding to this sector. However, we want to be assured that the Government is committed to genuine tourism development and tourism marketing in this country. We have heard pronouncements, such as the development in the Northern Circuit, in the Kasaba Bay area but, when we look at the way the sector has been structured, it is very difficult to know who will anchor the development of tourism in the circuit. Is it the hon. Minister responsible for tourism, is it the hon. Minister responsible for Wildlife or the hon. Minister responsible for Chiefs and Traditional Affairs? At some point, we need to be clear on that so that we do not do a haphazard job. Public resources are will be expended on this sector.

Mr Chairperson, in as far as we appreciate the allocations to the activities under the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO), and as I congratulate the hon. Minister for spearheading Zambia’s hosting of this important event, as a country, we also need to ensure that we aid the development of tourism from a marketing point of view by ensuring that the Government undertakes deliberate efforts to de so. We have seen in the budgets and in the Yellow Book that so much has been allocated to travel, international assignments and conferencing. I would like to urge the Government to lead by example by ensuring that some of this money that has been budgeted, for example, for workshops and international travel, be brought into the local arena to enable Zambia to host international events and conferences as opposed to always going out for tourism ventures in other countries. It is very important that the Government leads by example in this regard.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Chairperson, the other aspect, which is closely related to tourism, is the issue of the hunting blocks that are offered under ZAWA. I am sure the hon. Minister can easily identify the connection between tourism promotion and the hunting blocks. 

Sir, the Government must come out clearly, as a matter of policy, to assure that preference will be given to Zambians in terms of the concessions given so that we genuinely empower the citizens. Currently, I think the status is that most of these hunting blocks are given to people who are not of Zambian origin. These are areas that, potentially, can make a lot of money for the citizens and raise the profile of Zambians’ participation in the tourism sector. I would like to urge the Government, as most of these concessions end, to seriously consider locals’ participation in giving out the next ones.

Sir, the hon. Minister has already highlighted this point, but it is also important that we underline the need for us to move quickly on the matters that deal with policy and legislation. We know that the policy that we are operating under, currently, has long been overtaken by events. The licensing and grading of the standard in this sector also needs to be quickly harmonised and attended to. We are also aware that the Tourism and Hospitality Act needs a quick review. I would like to urge the hon. Minister to quickly initiate this process because the sooner we do it, the better for the development of tourism. Otherwise, what has been budgeted for will not move us any step further.

Sir, I would like to underscore the need for different institutions involved in the aspect of promoting investment in this country to quickly harmonise themselves with the tourism sector. I have in mind the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) and the various investment forums that these institutions are part of outside the country. I must also say that, as a matter of policy, the Government must also take care of this in terms of the local investors who want to venture into this sector. In fact, these are genuine areas for investment promotion in the country and can empower citizens.

Therefore, we want the Government to quickly harmonise and look at the issues that relate to the empowerment of citizens to ensure that they benefit from the proceeds in the tourism sector.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to summarise by saying that I support the budget that has been proposed, but urge that we must continue …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order! 

I would like the hon. Member on the Floor to finish first.

Laughter

The Chairperson: May the hon. Member continue, please.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Chairperson, the mind is very funny …

The Chairperson: Order! 

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Belemu: Mr Chairperson, it is important, as we support this Budget, to ask the Government to adopt long-term strategic orientation in planning tourism, and also to bring together the different aspects of tourism that have been thrown here and there. Otherwise, it will be very difficult for this Government to achieve whatever it has indicated. It is not enough for the Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism to be responsible for the training institution and also for the Zambia Tourism Board (ZTB).

Sir, we are one of the few countries that have done something very dangerous, separating product development from marketing. In most institutions, countries and, generally in marketing, product development goes hand in hand with marketing. When you separate and throw them under an Act or ministry, you are already disturbing the marketing aspect. In the end, and I am sorry, the hon. Minister responsible for tourism will have very little to say on standards, on the wildlife products or on anything else that is meaningful. If we consider this sector an economic one, the earlier we brought these institutions that aid to the development of the product and market the better. Otherwise, it will continue to be a problem. As my colleagues have said, it will just be a matter of paying lip service. So, it is important that these matters are attended to. We may probably, for now, go along with this but, certainly, there are challenges that the hon. Minister will eventually face.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, I also want to say that it is good to note that the Government is, now, very clear on matters of conservation and natural resources. I note the four zebras that State House received, but we must go beyond saying that we shall open State House to tourism. We have so much tourism potential in the country and we need more and more of those pronouncements and actions. That is why it is important that when we are discussing matters to do with our foreign policy and all those things that ultimately add to the image of the country, the Government should listen and conduct itself in a manner that befits this nation.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to debate the Vote on the Ministry of…

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I am sorry for disturbing the debate of the hon. Member on the Floor. Is the hon. Member for Monze Central in order to come dressed in court attire in this Chamber? I need your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mwiimbu: You are new?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

You can see that, sometimes, even the Chair has to consult. I have been told that he is improperly dressed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Can I ask the hon. Member for Monze to go out and dress properly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: You are the one who is new.

The Chairperson: Unfortunately, that is the Chair’s ruling. If you want to dispute it, that can be done later but, for now, please leave the Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu left the Chamber.

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, in supporting the Budget line for the Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism which is, indeed, very close to my heart having joined the industry on 1st September, 1969 and leaving the same institution on 1st September, 2006. Let me appreciate and commend the PF Government for having commenced a comprehensive transformation of the public media which, of course, everybody knows was heavily abused by the MMD Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I will be very brief and to the point. Today, every Zambian is rushing to buy the Zambia Daily Mail early in the morning.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Sir, today, every Zambian reader is rushing to buy the Times of Zambia every morning. Today, everybody is rushing to listen to and watch the ZNBC news at 1900 hours.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Sir, even the radio news is being listened to by many Zambians. This is what we are calling proper transformation of the media in this industry. At this point in time, I would suggest that even the upward adjustment of the television licence fee would be welcomed by this House. As clearly indicated by the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism, there is a need to purchase vehicles and other necessities to uplift the standard of broadcasting, especially, in rural areas. Therefore, the need to review the television licence fees should be looked into and the hon. Minister should bring it to this House so that we can debate the matter. I am pretty sure that hon. Members of this House will definitely welcome that idea because the media, today, is free for everyone. 

Mr Chairperson, I have always defended the workers in the media industry in this country. These are professional workers who, if left alone, will do a good job. Our friends abused them and, as a result, they did a job which was not appreciated by the public consumer. Therefore, let us ensure that the steps you have taken to liberalise the media in this country are never reversed. Please, ensure that you even motivate the workers in this industry. 

Mr Chairperson, at the same time, let me ask the hon. Minister responsible for the media to be very cautious. Yes, the media is free, today but, at the same time, the freedom that is now being enjoyed by all Zambians in using these institutions should be carefully monitored so that those who are against the PF Government do not start misusing the same media and even start championing their agendas. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I suggest that the hon. Minister for Information, Broadcasting and Tourism should be on the look out. I am saying this because I am a veteran journalist…

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

{mospagebreak}

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I was just reminding the hon. Minister responsible for the media to be on the look out. Since, today, the media is free for anyone to use, we may have some elements who would want to use it to plant wrong ideas in people’s minds. 

Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, I am most grateful to you for granting me this point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika Central in order to contradict the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism who, in his statement, articulated very well the need for liberalisation of the media? Is Hon. Mwansa Kapeya in order to advocate for media censorship? 

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling of the Chair is that the hon. Member who is debating should take that point of order into account as he continues. 

You may continue. 

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, you are wonderful. I thank you very much for your guidance. 

Laughter 

Mr Kapeya: I was simply asking the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism to be alert and not allow elements like ‘Stand Up For Zambia’ to start misusing the media. We do not want to develop such attitudes in the present Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya:  Mr Chairperson, for this matter, Zambians are still debating the fees accrued in litigations over the same ‘Stand Up For Zambia’ programme.

Hon. Government Members: Shikapwasha will pay!

Mr Kapeya: It is public money and the owners are saying there is no way that the money should be paid by this Government.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Somebody must stand up and cough up that bill. 

Mr Chairperson, being a veteran journalist, for that matter an international media trainer, I understand how the media can build or destroy a nation. It is, therefore, very important that, as a nation, we ensure that we uphold the performance of journalists in this country. These are trained journalists and the only way to motivate professional journalists is to allow them to perform freely as is the case today. 

Mr Chairperson, I was impressed when the hon. Minister talked about the ‘operalisation’ …

Laughter 

Mr Kapeya: … ‘operalisation’ of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). 

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Bear in mind that there is mother-tongue interference. May the hon. Member continue. 

Laughter 

Mr Kapeya: Mr Chairperson, I was very impressed with the hon. Minister’s statement regarding the coming up of the ZNBC and the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IB) Acts. Indeed, there is a need to ensure that the operations of this media institution is adhered to because, for your information, in the absence of the two bodies, some private radio stations, especially local ones, were allowed to be on test transmission by our friends in the MMD Government for more than two years. It is unheard of for a test transmission to go on for two years as has been the case with Mpika FM Radio Station.  

Hon. Government Member: Why?    

Mr Kapeya: Ask those who were responsible for the media industry in this country. We were told that the IBA would look into the issuance of broadcasting licences. The Act was passed by this House on 10th August, 2010 but, to date, the IBA is not operational. Anyway, it was all in the hands of our previous Government. I am pretty sure that the hon. Minister, like he said, will look into this issue so that private radio stations are given the licences to operate. 

Mr Chairperson, it is not only Mpika FM that has not been given the authority to operate. I understand that there are many other private FM radio stations which have not been given licences to operate. Hon. Minister, thank you for that.   

Mr Chairperson, I am grateful to hear from the hon. Minister that the issue of self-regulation in the media industry will be cemented. This is a very good idea. We do not want to go back to the old style of our friends who, today, would say one thing and the next day another. 

Laughter 

Mr Kapeya: What a Government. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: No wonder the people of Zambia said, “Enough is enough” and booted them out. 

Mr Chairperson, I would like the hon. Minister responsible for the media to look into the operationalisation of the IBA and the ZNBC Acts, and ensure that the media industry operates freely. I will repeat myself: the only way you can motivate journalists is to allow them operate freely as professionals. There is no way you can start dictating to someone on how to do something the way our friends used to abuse the media in the past. 

Mr Chairperson, I could talk and talk about this issue because, as I said, the media is very close to my heart. I want to end by thanking the hon. Minister for his inspiring ministerial statement.  

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Chairperson, picking up from the last debater’s key point, that journalists must be professional in discharging their duties, I wish to urge my colleague, the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism, to kill the perception that the low level of professionalism in our media institutions is attached to the poor qualifications of our journalists. As former Chairperson of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC), I hope that the hon. Minister will use a person’s qualifications as a key determinant when making appointments. 

Sir, I just have a few points to make regarding our tourism sector. Unbundling, though others may think it is positive, will compromise the quality of the tourism product and I think that the hon. Minister, being the fighter that we know him to be, will fight any efforts intended to compromise the quality of our tourism package because doing so might have a negative impact on people’s jobs, especially the ones held by our youth. The hon. Minister should fight to ensure that, in particular, ZAWA and the museums are run properly. You cannot market a product over which you have limited control, but one that you can control and whose nature you can shape. Compromising the quality of the package that we shall be offering will affect the benefits that we shall get from the sector. The hon. Minister needs to fight to ensure that our package is of good quality. He also needs to fight to ensure that the diversity in the range of tourism products that we offer is maintained, right from the Northern Circuit to the Kafue National Park. When we were in the Government, we had been working with people from the Millennium Challenge Account in the United States of America (USA) to access funds to improve the Kafue National Park. I now hear that, sadly, some people do not want the park to be allocated money. This is unfortunate because it has a wide range of good products that can bring us many benefits. Since the hon. Minister looks as attractive as a tourist attraction, I think the Americans will be able to hear him out regarding funding for the park.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: Secondly, Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister, as he looks at the legal framework of the sector, needs to ensure that the unfinished business we left behind regarding the participation of local small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in terms of owning tourism facilities is completed. There is a need to minimise the number of licences required by operators and also to improve their access to funding. The hon. Minister should ensure that he finishes those projects. At the end of the day, whilst appreciating the role played by foreign direct investment, we are still alive to the fact that our people must be key players in this important sector. 

Sir, we must ensure that we package our tourism product properly and give it a diversity of components so that when you go to Livingstone, which will now only be our tourist capital, for example, after seeing the Victoria Falls, there must be other products. When you see the falls once, the desire to see them again is quenched. With the animals taken away from you, the tourist attraction options that someone has in Livingstone are limited. So, we need to properly define our tourism package and come up with a proper marketing system for it. 

Ms Siliya: What about the big hotels?

Mr Mutati: I am being urged, here, to advocate for the building of big hotels in Livingstone. I think that it can be done. The right to host a big United Nations World Tourism Organisation conference that you successfully secured when you went to Korea can be used as an excuse to fight for big hotels to be built. We need to improve the capacity of our hotels so that the people who will come stay on the Zambian side and leave their Dollars with us. Zimbabwe has the capacity, but we have the quality. We have always preserved the quality of our tourism sector, and quality should cradle our tourism sector. 

Sir, the K9.8 billion allocated to tourism marketing is too little. I think that the hon. Minister needs more money for this exercise. The amount is what we had last year also. If you are going to create jobs, you need to move away from being merely rhetorical to being action-oriented. You need to increase the money for marketing from the current K9.8 billion even if it means playing around with allocations to other sectors of your ministry. If you prioritise tourism marketing, you will begin getting the desired results. 

Mr Chairperson, I just want to urge the hon. Minister not to compromise the quality of our tourism package even as attempts are made to unbundled it.  

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to add the voice of the people of Choma to the debate on this very important Vote.

Sir, I want to begin by stating that the media, as the fourth estate, is at the centre of the growth of our democracy and national agenda. With a free media, you can see the increased participation of citizens in the country’s development because they are able to make informed choices. Informed citizens are able to choose their leaders wisely. When the media is biased, on the other hand, people who do not deserve to win end up winning elections. 

Mr Lufuma: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Even the issue of apathy in voting is as a result of the bad conduct of the media which, in some cases, demoralises voters. 

Mr Chairperson, I also want to recognise the sobriety and decorum with which the hon. Minister has delivered his speech. He did it in a manner that is very different from the way other hon. Ministers did.  Other hon. Ministers delivered their speeches in a manner that is not in tandem with the status of an hon. Minister. I think that he has set the standard for other hon. Ministers to emulate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, I want to specifically talk about the public media. I am impressed with the comments that the hon. Minister has made, so far, regarding what he expects of the public media. I want to put it on record that the media, under the MMD Government, was a disaster.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: The media under the MMD Government was a huge disaster. The conduct of the public media, in particular, was shameful and embarrassing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: I would like to urge the PF Government not to run the media the same way the MMD did it.  

Mr Mweetwa: A public media house that thrives on taxpayers’ money was turned into an MMD mouthpiece under the previous regime. It was a campaign tool of the MMD. During the 1900 hours news, only President Banda, the former First Lady and former hon. Ministers used to be covered. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: That should not be allowed again in the political sphere of our country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: This is because it undermines the fibre of our democracy.

Mr Chairperson, as Deputy Spokesperson of the UPND, I am aware that towards the elections, we would go to the ZNBC with the intention of paying so that our documentaries would be aired on television, but the station, on instruction, perceivably from the MMD,  …

Mr Mushanga: From?

Mr Mweetwa: … from the MMD, would reject the money. Even if they had already received the money, they would call you to go and get your money back, saying that your information could not be broadcast because it was political. This was despite their continuing airing of programmes of a political nature produced by Chanda Chimba III.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Such behaviour should not be entertained. Facts must be stated as they are in order for our democracy to grow. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to take what I am saying seriously. I was happy with what he said regarding the public media because its conduct under the MMD was a huge pain in the neck of the people of Zambia.

Sir, I have also noted, with keen interest, the statements that the hon. Minister has made with regard to the operations of the public media, but I do not know if what he said will fully be realised because, in the just ended by-elections, again, we saw the public media receding do the MMD mentality. 

Hon. PF Members: Awe!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: The Opposition was blacked out and we were treated to a diet of PF campaigns. Mr Sata was on ZNBC News everyday. That cannot be tolerated any more because the public media belongs to all of us. There is no way the ZNBC would find time to go and cover the PF in Magoye, Chongwe and Nakonde, but fail to cover the UPND and the MMD, whom the PF was competing with. 

Mr Chairperson, the tenets of democracy demand that ideas must be allowed to compete in the market place so that people make appropriate and informed decisions. This is not what we saw. Even at the moment, if one wants to make a headline in the Zambia Daily Mail or Times of Zambia, he or she must denounce the corruption of the MMD. That is the only time one would be covered. This is the same thing that used to happen under the MMD Government. If one wanted to be covered by the public media, he had to talk against Mr Sata. The PF is doing the same things that the MMD did. We will not accept that way of doing things. 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: We, therefore, urge the hon. Minister to take note of this because the media is at the centre of the growth of our democracy and, whenever it is muzzled, …

Ms Kalima: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Mweetwa: … the developmental agenda of this country also comes under very serious threat. I think the hon. Minister will take note of what I have said because he has, for a long time, been a strong advocate for a free media. There are no two ways of handling this matter. Hon. Minister, you have to change. We have no option, but to ensure that the media is free.

Mr Muntanga: He looks serious.

Mr Mweetwa: Do not emulate the MMD, which mistreated the people of Zambia by feeding them on a diet of political rhetoric through the news everyday. The people of Zambia need fair and adequate coverage of all the interest groups that are participating in this country’s politics because the public media uses public funds.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: I also wanted the hon. Minister to tell us categorically when the Government will liberalise the airwaves because, during the campaigns before the general elections, the PF promised the people of this country that it would liberalise the airwaves within ninety days in office.

Mr Muntanga: There are still a few days.

Mr Mweetwa: The airwaves need to be liberalised quickly so that our people can have access to information which, as the hon. Minister said, will help them make decisions in an informed manner.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the time you gave me.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to wind up debate in support of the allocation to my ministry. 

Sir, let me also thank all hon. Members who contributed to the debate on this Vote. Allow me to use this time to respond to some of the comments made by my colleagues.

Sir, I take Hon. Mucheleka’s words to be very important. He cautioned the Government on a number of important things and I want to assure him that his words resonated very well in the ears of my colleagues in Government. We are aware of the fact that the pronouncements we are making will catch up with us sooner rather than later. Hon. Mucheleka should realise that we make pronouncements because we have the intention to implement them. We do not intend to make any pronouncements that we do not intend to implement. I would like to urge the Opposition to continue to remind us of these pronouncements because only then shall we deliver for the betterment of our country.

Interruptions 

Mr Lubinda: I am aware that, in two or three years, we will be judged against what we say in this House and out there. I also want to assure the hon. Member that my failure to make reference to the Freedom of Information Bill is not a sign of lack of intention on our part to have it in place. 

Mr Muntanga: Face the Chair.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, this was as a result of the fact that this is a matter that I have made reference to several times through the media. I wish to assure Hon. Mucheleka that I agree with him that access to information is not all about the media. Access to information is about the citizens of Zambia and we have every intention to enact these laws.

Mr Chairperson, first of all, we have to investigate why our colleagues in the MMD resisted passing those laws because we do not want to step on booby-traps. So, if I have taken time to address this issue it is because we want to understand why our colleagues were so vehemently opposed to enacting these laws. Nonetheless, I want to assure you that, as soon as we have concluded our investigations, we will make our next move. 

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mucheleka also suggested alternative sources of information besides the ZNBC and a few others also referred to the issues of liberalisation of the airwaves. I will tie this to the question that was raised by Hon. Mwansa Kapeya, who talked about the length of time it has taken for some people to remain on test broadcasting licences. The reason for that is because we intend, firstly, to understand the capacity of the frequencies we have. As many people might be aware, frequencies are not an infinite resource. We have only a given capacity. The Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) is currently, working around the issue of frequencies and, as soon as it has delivered a report to my ministry, we will be announcing the number of frequencies that are available for us to allow nationwide broadcasting. We will then allow people to apply for radio and television broadcasting icences. This is why I also stated that, very soon, I shall be announcing the Board of the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) so that it becomes the institution that will announce the issuance of those licences, not my ministry.

Mr Chairperson, questions were also asked regarding the logic of locking up our airwaves and, at the same time, talk about digital migration. Once we have migrated, we will increase the available frequencies. This will make it easy for people to get broadcasting licences. We do not intend to put in place any contradicting policies.

Sir, as regards newspapers in vernacular languages, if you look at the Yellow Book, you will see that we intend to decentralise the operations of the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS). I also spoke about the commissioning of the printing press in Chipata and the investment in the printing press in Kasama. The two initiatives are pilot projects. We intend to cover all provinces. The provincial printing presses are intended to be used in printing vernacular or regional publications so that our people are well-informed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I agree with Hon. Mucheleka that tourism has not been adequately funded, but I wish to quickly add that no ministry or sector can boast of having been adequately funded. We are dealing with a very small resource envelope and have to try and do the best we can with the limited resources that we have. This Government is determined to utilise the limited resources at its disposal in a prudent and efficient manner. 

Mr Chairperson, there are incentives that we are going to give to locals with the intention of venturing into the tourism sector. I referred to these a few weeks ago. Due to limited time I have, allow me to just ask my colleagues, if they are really keen on assisting, to look at the ZDA Act and the Tourism and Hospitality Act, which is bound to be revised, because these incentives are provided for therein.

Sir, I want to thank Hon. Pande most sincerely for his support and also others who commented on the so-called fragmentation of the tourism products. 

Sir, My good friend, Hon. Belemu, made reference to the re-alignment of the ministry and wondered how the national heritage and museums could compete for space with witchcraft.

Laughter 

Mr Lubinda: Let me assure you, my dear brother, Hon. Belemu, that if the witches and witch-finders were to be open about their craft, that, too, would be a very important tourism product …

Laughter 

Mr Lubinda: … and my ministry would be very happy to market it.

Laughter 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I want to agree with all those who talked about the media, probably, practising self-censorship. I, however, would like people to contrast that with the argument presented by Hon. Kapeya, who also said I must be careful because this freedom I have given to the press is going overboard. What this means, to me, is that the media is quickly finding its right place, given the background that was very ably articulated by my friend, Hon. Mweetwa. If the press is now being criticised on one hand, for exercising self-censorship and, on the other, for going overboard, then, I am sure that it is trying to find the middle path. Please, bear in mind, my dear brothers and sisters and the listeners out there, …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hon. Members.

Mr Lubinda: Hon. brothers and sisters.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: … that to change the mindset takes time and, therefore, we should allow media practitioners the time to change. There are some people who are quick to change, but there also others who are slow. The only thing I can do is to take advantage of this opportunity to appeal to all media practitioners, in both the private and the public media, to listen to the wishes and aspirations of the Zambian people and not necessarily any particular grouping of politicians or political minds. Let them go out there and give messages to the people that, in their professional wisdom, constitute the right information to be given to the Zambian people so that they may make informed decisions.

Mr Chairperson, this also addresses the issue raised by Hon. Mweetwa. I am glad that he said that, during the by-election, there was a blackout of the Opposition. I would have been extremely sad had it been that it was a general statement. Let me appeal, also, to the media practitioners to, please, give Zambians fair and balanced coverage, irrespective of the electoral temperature in the country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: After all, these noble men and women here have just gone through the experience of having to switch off television sets when they saw propaganda material coming on. So, we are alive to the fact that even if we were to use the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) for political propaganda purposes, we would not reach anybody because the people, ultimately, would switch off the television.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: So, then, the newscasters would be reading news to themselves.

Hon. Members: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: So, it is timely for all of us to allow the media to practice professionally. I would also like to appeal to all of us gathered here and other politicians out there to, please, let us not be overbearing on those professional journalists. I am cognisant of the fact that there is a big temptation by we, politicians, to say to the journalists, “I can assure you, you will not show this news item.” It is not up to that particular journalist to compile news items, but it is up to editorial team. If your story has not been shown, I do not think that is good justification to say they are biased against you.

Interruptions 

Mr Lubinda: I would like to suggest that we, too, as politicians, must be moderate in our desire to be shown on television because there are 13.5 million of us and we cannot always be on television. I would like to also encourage media people to realise that news is not only made by those holding ministerial positions.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes.

Mr Lubinda: News is created, also, by the downtrodden; those whose voices are rarely heard. May the media, please, also reflect their aspirations.

Mr Mushanga: Hear, hear! Quality!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, Hon Mucheleka cautioned me against making reference to the MMD and I tried very hard not to do so. I only did so to remind the House that this budget that is being presented by my ministry will fall short of the requirement to meet litigation costs that arose from the stories that Hon. Mweetwa and Hon. Mwansa Kapeya referred to. Once those cases are ruled against our media institutions, I can assure you that these Government-owned institutions will be in a financial quagmire. I also want to say that I agree that the Zambian people have refused to have their money used for the purpose of paying legal penalties. In that regard, the ministry has asked legal advisors to recommend ways of proceeding with this matter.

Mr Chairperson, let me assure Hon. Mutati that we will market all the products irrespective of where they are domiciled. I am sure that my colleagues, who are responsible for the ministries in which these products are domiciled, will allow for greater co-ordination between themselves and my ministry so that, together, we may market Zambia’s tourism.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you and all hon. Members of this House ─ those who debated, those who struggled to catch your eye and those who debated quietly ─ for their resounding support to the budget of my ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

{mospagebreak}

VOTE 26/01 – (Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism – Headquarters – K12, 299,554,363).

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 391, Programme 5001, Activity 002 – Non-Personnel Related Costs – 584,812,672. All along, we have been seeing personnel-related costs. So, what are these non-personnel related costs? Further, on Page 392, Programme 5012, Activity 003 – HIV/AIDS Awareness, Prevention, Treatment, Care and Support – 59,154,794 and Activity 010 – Care and Support – K176,136,177, what is the difference between the two Activities?

The Deputy Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism (Mr Tembo): Mr Chairperson, Programme 5001, Activity 002 is meant for payment of expenses related to the maintenance of office equipment and furniture, updating of asset registers, local tours, boards and committees. Under the same programme, Activities 001, 004, 005 and 008 have been moved to Activity 002.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: There was also a question on Programme 5012 ─ Cross Cutting Issues.

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this provision is for HIV/AIDS awareness and the increase is due to the number of planned awareness campaigns. This activity moved from Programme 5026, Activity 040.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, on page 391, Programme 5002, Activity 007 – Labour Day Celebration – K118,300,000, I have noticed that the Youth Day and Women’s Day celebrations are missing. Since, the ZNBC is full of young people, why is it denied those labour-related activities? 

Mr Tembo: This provision is for Labour Day activities and has been moved from Programme 5001, Activity 009.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: There was a question about Women’s Day celebrations as well. Would you comment on that.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, Programme 5002 has two activities. Activity 007, which Hon. Livune is referring to, is specifically for Labour Day Celebrations for which K181,300,000 is requested.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to draw the attention of the House to Activity 011 – Public Functions and Ceremonies. Under the same programme, for which we have requested K91 million, all activities, outside Labour Day celebration, in which our ministry will participate will be financed. When we make reference to the ZNBC, I would like to inform the House that it is funded through a grant and not for activities like Labour Day or Youth Day celebrations, using the Headquarters at the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, on page 392, Programme 5012, Activity 010 – Care and Support – K176,136,177, I can see that, under the same programme, Activity 003 ─ HIV/AIDS Awareness, Prevention, treatment, Care and Support – K59,154,794, there is also care and support. Therefore, who is the care and support under Programme 5012, Activity 010 – Care and Support – K176, 136,177, for?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this support is for HIV/AIDS-infected members in terms of nutrition supplements and other relevant care.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, on page 392, Programme 5075, Activity 001 – Services to Ministers and Permanent Secretary – K308,040,000, I note that the provision has been raised from K90,720,000. What are these services and can they be justified by the hon. Minister?

Mr Tembo:  This Activity is a combination of the following Activities: 001 – Services to Ministers and Permanent Secretary – K308,040,000; 002 – Services to the Deputy Minister; and 003 – Services to the Permanent Secretary 

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 26/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 26/02 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting and Tourism – Zambia News and Information Services – K17, 012,624,887).

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, on page 396, Programme 5068, Activity 004 – Procurement of Mobile Video Vans – K187,404,422, when I look at the amount, I wonder how many vehicles we could buy with this amount for this is a very important task.

Mr Tembo: The provision is for facilitating the procurement of mobile video equipment to assure quality service delivery.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: How many vans will you possibly buy out of that allocation?

Hon. Opposition Members: Long live Chair!

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this will cater for two to three vans.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, on page 395, Programme 5032, Activity 001 – News Gathering – K634,380,000, I see an increase from K156, 607,200, in this year’s Budget. Does this reflect a higher quality and quantity of news for next year?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, it is quite important to increase the coverage of news. This provision is required to enable reporters do their work effectively. The variance is due to the increase in coverage of news countrywide.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sililo (Mulobezi): Mr Chairperson, on page 396, Unit 03, Programme 5013, Activity 012 – Data Analysis – K6,090,370, I would like to know why there has been a drastic reduction from K27,450,000.

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this provision is aimed at facilitating data analysis. The decrease is due to the reduction in the Budget ceiling.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, on page 394, Unit 01, Programme 5001, Activity – 004 – Staff Welfare – K1,565,335,312, why such a huge provision considering the fact that this is not a core function of  the Zambia News and Information Services?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this Vote has been moved from Programme 5026, Activity 008 on page 395.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Chairperson, on page 395, Unit 01, Programme 5010, Activity 008 – Establishment of Documentation Unit – K90, 788,841, in the 2011 Budget, the provision was K51, 339,539. How many times does this unit get established?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this provision is meant to improve data management. The variance is due to the increased cost of equipment and software.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 26/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 26/03 – (Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism – Press and Planning – K33,499,674,798).

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5005, Activity 149 – Public Media Support – K1,400,000,000. Why has the amount reduced from K2 billion to K1.4 billion when, in essence, support has to be given to the public media institutions? Secondly, may I also have clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 158 – Construction – K500,000,000. What is the ministry going to construct? Thirdly, on Programme 5012, Activity 006 – Gender Mainstreaming – K169,080,000. What are these activities that are going to amount to K169 million when we know that there is a balance between male and female in the positions held?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, the first provision is money given to the public media institutions to assist them meet their operational costs. These institutions are ZNBC, the Times of Zambia, the Zambia Daily Mail, the Zambia Printing Company (ZPC) and the Zambia Institute of Mass Communication Education Trust (ZAMCOM). Activity 158 – Construction – K500,000,000, is a new activity. The provision is required for the construction of a building to house the printing press in Kasama. Activity 006 – Gender Mainstreaming – K169,080,000, is also a new activity that involves the holding sensitisation meetings at the provincial level in order to create better understanding of gender mainstreaming. The allocation involves production of video clips with information related to gender issues, as well as travel expenses.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5073, Activity 014 – Monitoring and Evaluation – Nil. In the 2011 Budget, K100,835,000 was allocated, but nothing has been provided for in the 2012 Budget. Why is there no provision for this activity?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this activity is meant for the preparation of data collection tools to enable the department carry out effective monitoring and evaluation. The variance is due to the reduction in the number of projects to be monitored and evaluated.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5006, Activity 028 – Subscription to International Organisations – K77,574,000. An amount of K10 million was allocated in the 2011 Budget. Why has it increased to K77,574,000?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for asking that important question. 

Laughter

Mr Tembo: The K77,574,000, is meant to pay membership to international organisations, such as the World Intellectual Property Organisation and the Southern and Eastern Africa Copyright Network. The increase is due to the increased subscription fees to be paid.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5013, Activity 015 – Production of Yearly Magazine – K50,000,000. What type of magazine is this? Secondly, why call it ‘Yearly’ when there was no provision in the previous years? If there was production in the previous years, which Vote was used?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, this is a new activity. It is called yearly because the ministry intends to publish an annual Government publication in which people will be informed on the activities of the various ministries in the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Taundi (Mangango): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5006, Activity 001 – Destruction of Pirated Materials – Nil.  There was a provision of K30,500,000 in the 2011 Budget, but nothing has been budgeted for in the 2012 Budget. Does this mean that pirated materials will be allowed next year?

Laughter

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, that is a very good observation. This provision is to enable the ministry destroy seized pirated and counterfeit materials. The Budget line has been moved to Programme 5050 – Copyrights.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 26/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 26/04 – (Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism – Tourism Development Department – K47,052,138,076).

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Page 408, Programme 1126, Activity 001 – Facilitation of Kasaba Bay – Nil. There was a provision of K1,000,000,000 in the 2011 Budget, but I am concerned that there is no provision in 2012 to support this very important project, which is anchored on the Nsumbu National Park.

Further, Mr Chairperson, on Page 409, Programme 1179, Activity 002 – Rehabilitation of Heritage Sites and Museums – Nil, while I am comforted to see K980 million for Motomoto Museum, in Mbala, I am concerned that there is no provision for the rehabilitation of Heritage Sites and Museums, which is a major component of development in my constituency, yet the 2011 Budget has a provision of K2,300,000,000. Why are these important Budget lines not being given any funds at all?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1126, Activity 001 has been discontinued because the project has been completed. 

Mr Chairperson, Programme 1179, Activity 002 has also been completed.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 404, Programme 1010, Activity 041 – Revenue Collection and Monitoring – Nil. There was a provision of K100,000,000 in the 2011 Budget. However, there is none in 2012. Does it mean that we shall have no revenue collection and monitoring activity?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, I beg your pardon.

Dr Kazonga repeated the question.

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this provision was intended to facilitate collection of the Tourism Levy from tourism enterprises. The activity has been moved to Programme 1304, Activity 0001.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1179, Activity 016 – Enhancement of Livingstone as the Tourist Capital – K3,430,000,000. May I know what will be done under this activity?

Mr Tembo: Mr Chairperson, this activity is for conducting an inventory of the infrastructure available and harmonising the development plans into the master plan. It will be used to remodel the city and engage a development consultant as well as implement subsequent activities to be identified. Actually, this is a new activity. That is why there is that large allocation.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 246/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 31/01 – (Ministry of Justice – Headquarters – K295,140,576,080).

The Minister of Justice (Mr S. S. Zulu): Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Justice has budgetted for Estimates of Expenditure totalling K295,140,576,080. I humbly request this august House to support the Estimates.

Sir, as you may be aware, the Ministry of Justice currently comprises six departments as follows:

Human Resources and Administration

Mr Chairperson, the Department of Human Resources and Administration currently exists to promote professionalism in the management of human resources and provision of …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Could you consult silently. I want to hear everything the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House is saying.

May the hon. Minister and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House continue, please?

Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, the department will continue to manage and develop the human and institutional capacity of the ministry for the efficient and effective delivery of service. The department is currently overseeing the construction of a new ministerial office block in front of the Civil Aviation Department. The building will go a long way in easing the challenge of office accommodation in the ministry.

Legislative Drafting and Law Revision Department

Mr Chairperson, the Legislative Drafting and Law Revision Department is responsible for the drafting of Bills and subsidiary legislation, and law revision. The department will continue to facilitate the enactment of new legislation as well as revision of old legislation. One of the Acts to be amended is the Anti-Corruption Act, No. 38 of 2010 to introduce much stiffer penalties for corruption as stated in the Republican President’s Address to this august House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr S. S. Zulu: Sir, this will include re-instating the Abuse of Office Clause.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr S. S. Zulu: Sir, the PF Government will, among other things, enact laws for the implementation of the Decentralisation Policy. The Legislative Drafting and Law Revision Department is key in this process. 

Civil Litigation, Debt Collection and Prerogative of Mercy Department

Mr Chairperson, the Civil Litigation, Debt Collection and Prerogative of Mercy Department exists to represent the State in actions against and by the State. Its functions include instituting civil proceedings on behalf of the State and rendering legal advice on numerous civil issues to various Government departments, ministries and statutory bodies. The department will continue to carry out these duties as well as collect debts owing to the Government and provide legal advice to the President on the exercise of powers of prerogative of mercy. 

Internal Law and Agreements Department

Mr Chairperson, the functions of the Internal Law and Agreements Department include drafting, scruitinising and negotiating international and domestic agreements and advising the Government on all international law matters. The department will continue to carry out these functions as well as, among others, collect and rationalise international agreements that Zambia has signed. 

Office of the Administrator-General and Official Receiver

Sir, the office of the Administrator-General and Official Receiver administers estates of deceased persons as well as estates in bankruptcy. The functions of the Office of the Administrator-General and Official Receiver include representing and defending deceased estates in court, administering estates in bankruptcy and administering and settling estates of bankrupt persons for the benefit of creditors. The office will continue to carry out these and other functions assigned to it by law. 

Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions

Sir, the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions exists to institute and undertake criminal proceedings against any person before any court, other than a Court Martial, in respect of any offence alleged to have been committed by that person. The office was, through the National Prosecution Authority Act, No. 34 of 2010, transformed into a National Prosecution Authority to, among others, make it autonomous and more independent. It is also aimed at bringing all prosecutors under one roof.  

Due to the transformation of the office into an authority, it shall soon turn into a grant-aided institution. The National Prosecution Authority will continue to perform the functions outlined in the Act. 

The Governance Secretariat

Mr Chairperson, as for the Governance Secretariat, in September, 2006, the Government established a governance secretariat whose role was to facilitate the implementation of components of the Governance Chapter in the Fifth National Development Plan, which, among others, included administration of justice and reporting and facilitation of governance initiatives. 

In January, 2010, the secretariat was transformed into a department under the Ministry of Justice. The department will carry on the functions of the governance secretariat which include improving access to justice for the vulnerable, women and children, and promoting good corporate governance practices among public and private institutions. 

The Ministry of Justice works closely with the following granted-aided institutions which receive their grants through the ministry: 

The Legal Aid Board

Mr Chairperson, the Legal Aid Board has been operational for slightly over three years. It provides legal aid services in civil and criminal matters. There have been teething problems. Challenges have included staffing levels of both professional and support staff being inadequate. However, in the 2011 Budget, a provision was made to boost the staffing levels to 102 members. It is hoped that by 2012, all positions will be filled. 

The legal Aid Fund, which became operational in July, 2010, with an initial amount of K3 billion, will continue to be administered by the board in conjunction with the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ). The initial assessment shows that access to justice has been enhanced. 

The PF Government intends to establish an office of Public Defender in every district in place of the current Legal Aid Scheme. 

The Zambia law Development Commission

Mr Chairperson, the Zambia law Development Commission aims at reforming and developing the law to meet the changing needs of society. In the recent past, the commission took part in the development of gender-based violence legislation and is currently working on the development of legislation to regulate customary marriages. The commission is also undertaking a review of all child-related legislation in conjunction with the Ministries of Justice, and Community Development, Mother and Child Health. 

The desire of the Government is to also enhance the capacity of the commission in order to enhance law reforms.   

The Judicial Complaints Authority

Mr Chairperson, with regard to Judicial Complaints Authority, the authority investigates allegations of misconduct against judicial officers and is responsible for enforcing the code of conduct for judicial officers in order to promote increased transparency, accountability, effectiveness, efficiency and equity in the dispensation of justice. 

The Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE)

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about the Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE). The core function of the institute is the provision of the legal practitioners’ qualifying examination course to university law graduates wishing to be admitted to the Zambian Bar. ZIALE is also mandated to offer courses in the following: 

(i)    Legislative Drafting;

(ii)    Practical Advanced Human  Rights and the Law;

(iii)    Practical Advanced Gender and the Law; and

(iv)    Practical Advanced Prosecution.

Mr Chairperson, following the enactment of the Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education Amendment Act No. 19 of 2009, which enabled students from private universities to enroll at the institute, there has been an increase in the number of students.  

In this regard, ZIALE has embarked on an expansion programme as the present infrastructure is unable to accommodate the increased number of students. ZIALE has acquired land along the Great East Road near Silver Rest School where it intends to build a campus. In the interim, plans are underway to build the lecture theatre at the present site of ZIALE. It is envisaged that the lecture theatre will accommodate around 500 students. 

Below are some of the programmes under the Ministry of Justice:

Constitutionalism

Sir, the first programme is Constitutionalism. The PF Government wishes to deliver to the people of Zambia a new Constitution that reflects the will and aspirations of the people. As the House may be aware, a committee of experts has been constituted to review the recommendations of all previous Constitution review commissions in order to draft and present a new people-driven Constitution based on the citizens’ wishes as expressed in the successive Constitution review commission reports. 

Millennium Challenge Account Ruling Justly Component

Sir, there is also the Millennium Challenge Account Ruling Justly Component  to which Zambia became eligible for funding in December, 2008 after satisfying the condition on the seventeen indicators of the three policy categories, namely ruling justly, economic freedom, and investing in people.

Sir, the funds are channelled through the Millennium Challenge Corporation which is an independent American Aid Agency whose overall goal is poverty reduction by working through national governments. The Ministry of Justice is responsible for the Ruling Justly Component.

The African Peer Review Mechanism (APRM)

Sir, the African Peer Review Mechanism (APRM) is an indigenous, home-grown concept that seeks to contribute to the improvement of governance systems and practices in African countries. This self-monitoring instrument is intended to foster the adoption of policies, standards and practices that will lead to political stability, high economic growth, sustainable development and accelerated regional and economic integration, through sharing of experiences and reinforcement of successful best practices. The PF Government will continue supporting this programme.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency to the debate on Floor, and to support the Vote which has been ably delivered by the hon. Learned Minister of Justice. 

Sir, we need a complete overhaul of our legislation in this country, if we have to make doing business and setting up business in Zambia easy in relation to other countries.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

__________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

___________

The House adjourned at 1956 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 9th December, 2011.