DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE ELEVENTH NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 13th December, 2011

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: I have received communication to the effect that, in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other national duties, Hon. Sebastian S. Zulu, SC., MP, Minister of Justice, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from, today, Tuesday, 13th December, 2011, to Friday, 23rd December, 2011.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

HIGH SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION IN BAHATI

49. Mr Kalaba (Bahati) asked the Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training when the Government would construct another high school in Bahati Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the ministry is, currently, constructing Chimese High School in Bahati Constituency. Therefore, according to our assessment, there is no other high school that will be constructed in the constituency, in the near future, until enrolments have increased within the catchment area in line with set standards and taking into account the space that will be created when Chimese High School becomes operational.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister confirm that Bahati will now have two high schools other than the one currently existing.

The Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, within the ministry’s limited budget, we will endeavour, like in other constituencies, to provide another high school for Bahati.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, may I know from the hon. Minister whether there are plans to build high schools in every constituency.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, building high schools in every constituency is most desirable, but as you know, there are budgetary constraints. However, we will endeavour to meet that demand.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that a high school can only be constructed when the enrolment improves in Bahati. May I know if, currently, the enrolment is extremely poor?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I can only endeavour to infer from what the hon. Deputy Minister said in his reply, but enrolment is one of the factors that we consider when constructing a high school.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, may I know whether this Government is continuing from where the previous Government left in as far as the construction of high schools is concerned?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, although that question is not directly related to the one under discussion, it gives me an opportunity to say that we build on foundations that we find.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, in the Lusaka Catchment Area, Kanyama Constituency is the only constituency that has no high school? Therefore, what are the plans that the hon. Minister has for Kanyama Constituency?

Mr Speaker: That is outside the question.

KALABO/SIKONGO ROAD CONSTRUCTION

50. Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    When construction works on the Kalabo/Sikongo Road up to the border with Angola would start; and

(b)    What the estimated time for completion of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, in August, this year, 2011, the Government signed a consultancy contract with Wanjohi Consulting Engineers (Kenya) in association with the Industrial and Engineering Consulting Office (INCO-Kuwait) and Wanjohi Consulting Engineers (Zambia) at a contract sum of K4,442,106,500. The consultants are currently carrying out Phase I of the 85 km, Kalabo/Sikongo Road project. They are working on the detailed engineering design and preparation of the tender documents. Phase I, which includes the tendering of works up to the award of contract, is expected to be completed at the end of July, 2012, and then construction is expected to start in October, 2012. 
Mr Speaker, the estimated completion period for the said project is twenty-four months. We expect the project to be completed by the end of September, 2014.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, from Sikongo up to the border with Angola, it normally gets flooded by the end of December? If he is aware, what measures has he put in place in order for the design to be completed within the time stated?
The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, when it comes to the design, the designer will take into consideration to ensure that the completion period that has been set is complied with.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, will the Kalabo/Sikongo Road not be a white elephant, especially that I do not see the Mongu/Kalabo Road being completed in the next ten years?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it will not be a white elephant because people are living in this area and we want to provide services to them. 
Mr Speaker, the Mongu/Kalabo Road is in our books and we are trying to look at the best option of executing this project. 
I thank you, Sir. 
Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, I did not get the hon. Minister clearly. Who will construct this road? Is it foreigners or the Zambian people?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, currently, we are in the early stages of designing. After the design has been done, there will be a tendering process. It is during this process that we will know exactly who will execute the contract. 
I thank you, Sir. 
Mr Moonde (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister who the financier of this project is, seeing that it is starting in 2012. Is it Kuwait or the Government of the Republic of Zambia? 
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when it comes to execution of the project, Saudi Arabia will help us.
Mr Speaker, I thank you. 
SENIOR CHIEF NSEFU’S PALACE ELECTRIFICATION
51. Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo) asked the Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development when Senior Chief Nsefu’s Palace in Mambwe District would be electrified. 
The Deputy Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development (Mr C. Zulu): Mr Speaker, the electrification of Senior Chief Nsefu’s Palace, in Mambwe District, will be completed as soon as the required poles are procured. The hon. Member may wish to note that, currently, there is a shortage of poles in the region due to lack of creosote, a preservative used to treat poles. 
This lack of the preservative has affected supply of poles in the whole of Southern Africa. However, a total of fifty poles, out of the required 140 poles, has already been delivered on site. The situation is expected to normalise within the next six weeks and an appropriate time frame for the completion of the works will be given once the remaining ninety poles are mobilised. 
In the light of this development, I wish to inform the House that this critical shortage of poles has affected the implementation of other electrification projects in the country. However, despite the current low supply of poles, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Limited has been instructed to build sufficient reserves on the poles to ensure that the grid extension projects do not delay any further.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, notwithstanding that there is a shortage of poles, are there any intentions to extend the said programme to Government institutions which are in close proximity to the palace such as health posts and basic schools? 
Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, it is the intention of the Government to electrify all Government institutions in the country, including chiefs’ palaces. This programme, therefore, is already on course and I hope this House will support our budget when it is presented before it. 
I thank you, Sir. 
Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when this project started. 
Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, that is a new question. 
However, I will give a background on when it started. In July, 2011, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) and ZESCO signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to construct a 14 km 11 kV line to Senior Chief Nsefu’s Palace. 
ZESCO surveyed the route for the construction of the line and entered into a labour contract with Rising East, the company executing the project. The contractor moved on site and started working in August, 2011. The work involved bush clearing, hole-digging and pole erection. Bush clearing is almost complete; hole-digging is still on-going and 50X12 metre poles, out of the required 140, have already been delivered to the site. The detailed progress on the project is as follows:

(i)    Line Route of 14 km

the line route has been pegged away from the road on the first stretch. This is due to the settlements along the route. Line pegging has been done on the entire route;
(ii)    Bush Clearing 

the bush clearing is being done, but not yet completed. About 70 per cent has been done. The bush consists of hard wood, thick forest, wetland or water logged areas in the rainy season;

(iii)    Hole-digging 

this has been done on the entire cleared route. Challenges are on the hard ground and rocky/clay soils; and

(iv)    Distribution of holes    

finally, a total of fifty poles, out of the required 140 poles, have been delivered to the site

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 
_____ 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
 Chair]

VOTE 46 – (Ministry of Health – K2, 566,933,794,819).
(Consideration resumed)
Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, before adjournment on Friday, I had started to contribute on the Ministry of Health Vote. I started by making an observation that, in our infrastructure design, there was one serious omission which will negatively impact on the hon. Minister’s focus on a clean, caring and competent health service. 
Mr Chairperson, looking at the first, second or third level hospitals, one sees that, apart from the facilities that had renovations, others do not have  shelters for relatives providing bedside care. We, rural-based hon. Members of Parliament, see our people travelling long distances to access first level health care. 
Sir, it is a very well-known fact that the recovery of a patient is influenced by many factors, one of which is the feeling that there is a caring relative around them.
For this reason, I would like to implore my colleague, the hon. Minister of Health, that in order to realise the full potential of the three ‘Cs’, which are clean, caring and competent, in the new or old designs of our first or second level hospitals, we should make a provision for relatives’ shelters.
Sir, the same goes for the current health posts. In terms of the design, it is important that the hon. Minister also reviews the need for more health workers. Our thrust was for the health worker to spend, perhaps, as little as 20 per cent of time at the facility and the rest in the community but, alas, the reverse is the case at the moment. This health worker spends most of the time at the health facility.
Mr Chairperson, the second aspect of redesigning that I am requesting is based on the caring aspect. Over the years, we have seen very hardworking and committed health workers but, increasingly, there is a number that does not seem to have taken nursing or midwifery as a vocation. Their attitude really leaves much to be desired. Therefore, I am requesting the hon. Minister to redesign the curriculum in all the training institutions to bring out the aspect of leadership and care so that patients who come to these facilities are not treated like they are a bother. In fact, they are the reason health workers are there.
The further redesigning that I am suggesting, Sir, in support of this budget, are the strategies for human resource development. The hon. Minister mentioned, in his statement, the shortage of human resource and strategies he has put in place. I am, therefore, suggesting that students who access public training institutions are fully sponsored. If we talk about the numbers that we need, probably, we are operating at 50 per cent of the establishment at the moment. If we are talking of another 50,000 plus health workers, I am suggesting that, perhaps, consideration must be made for 50 per cent bursary for students who access private nursing training institutions.
If we give full sponsorship to students who access public training institutions, perhaps, we could give half sponsorship to those who access private training institutions. For example, if 100 medical students are given half sponsorship, in that particular year, we will have 200 students at half sponsorship, adding to the national human resource achievements. 
Mr Chairperson, another aspect of concern as regards the three Cs is that it is evident that in the fight against HIV/AIDS, we have a medical levy. We have seen what is happening in the Euro zone. This is a warning that funds from the global fund might not really be there forever and ever. Therefore, I am suggesting to the hon. Minister that due consideration be given to convert the medical levy into an HIV/AIDS trust fund so that, progressively, we can stand on our feet as a nation.
Sir, the last submission I would like to make is something to do with the efficiency with which the Ministry of Health will deliver. It is very clear that in the area of maternal and child health, this country has made tremendous strides. However, the relocation of maternal and child care from the Ministry of Health to the Ministry of Community Development Mother and Child Health is not right. We tried to examine this but, I think it is time we reviewed it. It is unnecessary and causing confusion because the care in the maternal and child programme does not just involve the community. Community participation is only part of it. I guess that it is important to emphasise the issue of maternal and child health. Why, then, not have another Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Health to look after this very important aspect of our health delivery system?
Indeed, there will be issues of immunisation. Where are you going to get the experts from? Are you going to borrow them from the Ministry of Health? How about the linkages with the global community and the issues of nutrition?
Sir, it is important, therefore, that if we have to really build on the gains that we have made, we review this. It is not convincing for someone to say we thought about it. Perhaps, this can be reviewed at in the shortest possible time.
Mr Chairperson, I wish to stress that in supporting the health budget, as a clinician, I have seen, over the years, that we make more gains through the preventive aspect of medicine. For us to concentrate solely on curative hospital-based care, we will only achieve limited success. This means that there is a need for us also to strengthen our human resource and linkages with the local authorities in the provision of water and sanitation and the Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training in the areas of school feeding programmes. If these are localised, the local communities will benefit because they will be providing the requisite nutrition that our children need.
Sir, I am sure that if we are inclusive in this manner, we shall see that the health budget has a positive impact on the health status of our people.
I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much. I would like to support the Vote on the Floor. In doing so, I have a few comments to make.
Firstly, I would like to commend the Government for increasing the health budget. I have noticed that it has been increased by 45 per cent, which is quite high compared to the past three years where we saw a decline in the health budget due to issues to do with resources.
Mr Chairperson, I wish to state that one of the problems in the health sector, at the moment, is the issue of constructing health posts or clinics, but without staff. This seems to be a challenge. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Health to look into this matter.
For example, there is a health post in my constituency that was constructed more than three years ago but, to date, the Government has failed to send staff there. The health institution I am talking about is Kapete Clinic in Chongwe Constituency. I hope that the hon. Minister can quickly look into opening this clinic. Women are dying due to maternal health-related illnesses because of lack of a clinic in that area, and yet the population is very high.
Sir, I see that there has been a sharp increase in the budget for drugs. I think that is very good because we know that, in the past, we have had difficulties with stocking our hospitals with enough drugs. Many people have complained that we do not have drugs in our hospitals and, I think, that this issue has been outstanding for quite some time. It is, therefore, good to see that the amount allocated to the budget for drugs has been tripled or quadrupled. We hope that this money can be used properly.
Mr Chairperson, sometimes, I have not really been sure myself whether the problem has only been the lack of enough resources in the health sector in our country. Look at the support that we have been receiving from our co-operating partners towards the health sector. I think that there is also a problem of how these resources are being used in the health sector. The hon. Minister must, therefore, critically look at this matter. 
We heard of how resources went missing or were misapplied and misappropriated in this sector. I, sometimes, think there has been an absorption problem because there has been so much money allocated to health that it ends up being spent on workshop after workshop. When you see a ministry having too many workshops, that tells you something.
Mr Chairperson, the other issue I want to comment on is that of the recruitment of staff in this ministry. I also see that the budget for the recruitment of staff has been doubled. We are told that over 2,500 health workers will be employed next year. I just hope that this will help in improving healthcare. The biggest achievement that I see in the health sector budget for next year is the removal of user fees because that, indeed, has been a hindrance. I just want to commend the hon. Minister, again, for this very good policy.
Lastly, I would like to talk about the construction of hospitals in districts. I think this matter needs to be reviewed because there is no point in saying we are going to construct a hospital here and there, every year, before completing hospital projects that have taken five years. Why start the construction of new hospitals before completing the old projects? Why go and commission a hospital which has not been completed just because we want to show that we are working? I think we are just cheating ourselves. 
Sir, I think it is important that when we start something, we try and finish it so that the people in that community or district can begin to enjoy the fruits of their resources instead of just littering money around pretending that so many district hospitals are being built in a year when, in fact, you find that, maybe, only one project is completed in a year. So, I think that the hon. Minister needs to look at this issue of listing five or even ten hospitals that are going to be constructed next year, and yet the hospitals which were started, maybe, even five or ten years ago are not yet completed.
Mr Chairperson, I would like to advise the hon. Minister that we do not want the wastage of resources by putting up people’s pictures, even if they are handsome, on public buildings. 
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: We saw many billboards with statements such as “Government at Work” with the picture of a President which cost millions of kwacha. There is no need for this. Even when these pictures were torn down, you would find that, the next day, they would be put up again and we keep saying we do not have resources to run our hospitals.  
With these few comments, I want to commend the hon. Minister for a very good budget. He should not listen too much to people who will tell him to change this and that because so far, so good.
Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwewa (Mwansabombwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to contribute to this debate in support of the Vote for the Ministry of Health. I would like to say that there is a lot that we need to do in the health sector for us to improve it. I think the hon. Minister mentioned a lot of things that need to be done, but I stand here to emphasise the issue of shortage of manpower in the health sector which needs to be looked at very seriously. 
Mr Chairperson, it is because of the shortage of manpower in the health sector that the sector, today, has an overload of work. The health sector needs people who are well motivated to be able to take care of us when we are sick. All of us will get sick one day and when we go to the hospital, that is when we will realise the need for the workers in the health sector to be motivated. 
Sir, in Zambia, we need about 54,000 health workers. We only have about 32,000 health workers at the moment. This clearly shows that we have a shortage. Therefore, what should we do, before we talk about buildings and stuff like that? We should take into consideration the fact that the 32,000 to 33,000 health workers have to look after the health of 14 million people in Zambia. 
Mr Chairperson, the problems in the health sector are similar in both rural and urban areas. I will use the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) as an example. I have been to the filter clinic at the UTH and the situation there is pathetic. The last time I went there, I took my friend. The first thing I saw was that there was no wheelchair anywhere around. We looked for a wheelchair to carry my friend into the filter clinic, but we could not find one. Then, we decided to carry him to the filter clinic, but there was no bed space or mattress. We had to put him on the floor and luckily his wife had a chitenge which we spread on the floor where we put him. 
We then started looking for a nurse. There were about four or five nurses running around attending to about eighty patients most of whom were on the floor. These patients had to be fed from the floor. The nurse I asked to attend to my friend had to do all the checks for what they call vital signs. She had to check the blood pressure (BP) and temperature, get blood and urine samples, try to resuscitate those who were almost dying and prepare the bodies of those who had died to go to the mortuary and so on and so forth. For ten hours, this one nurse was running around like a mad person. When I tried to talk to her, she answered me in a manner that I did not like. Then, I sat down and realised that there was too much work for her.
Mr Chairperson, this same health worker will get K2 million at the end of the month. Is that the way we are going to thank our hardworking nurses? I feel that before we talk about building hospitals, let us take care of what we have in our hands; the 33,000 health workers. I am appealing to the Executive of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to change this situation and put a smile on those hardworking health workers in Zambia. Let people get attracted to joining the health sector.
Mr Chairperson, after running around for so many hours at work, the same nurse has to use public transport to go home. I see nurses using public transport from the UTH to Kalingalinga, Lilanda or Matero every day. However, we see military officers, who live in Chunga, jumping on Government buses to and from work. The hon. Minister of Health should explain to me why we cannot provide institutional or Government transport for the hardworking health workers who are taking care of us. 
What will Zambia be, tomorrow, when those people are not there? It is a challenge. I see army officers standing, waiting for their transport to be picked while Ministry of Health workers use public transport after attending to a lot of patients and thereby spreading germs. 
Laughter 
Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, out of the K2 million they get, they have to pay for their transport, which is about K10,000 to and from their places of work, that is if they commute from Kalingalinga to the UTH. How much money do they remain with to take care of their families? 
Mr Chairperson, when you go to the so-called hostels where the nurses stay at the UTH, you will feel bad. It is like they are at the station, waiting for the bus going to Mpika.
Interruptions 
Mr Mwewa: It is as if they have not arrived yet. About ten families use one toilet. The situation is bad and when they go to work, the situation is the same. It is pathetic. I feel strongly that something should be done to thank the hardworking Ministry of Health workers and put a smile on their faces. 
Mr Chairperson, in other countries, these people are well looked after. Even if we cannot support all civil servants, let us give something to these people who take care of our lives. Let us try to give them a little more than what they are getting. A 100 per cent increment would be good. The problems that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa talked about of having a curriculum that includes, probably, teaching health workers how to take care of and smile at patients, giving them the attention and the tender loving care that a patient needs and all that kind of stuff, can all easily be solved if we motivate them and give them something to smile about. Hon. Minister, when you are well paid, you will be smiling.
Mr Chairperson, in the health sector, when we provide more drugs, as indicated in the budget for the health sector, they end up in drug stores in compounds. This is because we do not motivate our health workers so they end up stealing those drugs. 
Interruptions
Mr Mwewa: You have seen the drugs and have bought them. This is the reality of life in Zambia today. How can we stop that? It is better to motivate the health workers. How can we stop the technocrats from stealing money by spending on the workshops and seminars that Hon. Masebo talked about? Let us motivate them because they are not motivated.
Mr Chairperson, I went to the UTH, yesterday, to see my aunt, …
Laughter 
Mr Mwewa: … and you know what? There are no mosquito nets in the UTH. The entire UTH, which is next to State House, has no mosquito nets. Even Mbereshi Hospital, which is in my area, has no mosquito nets. 
Hon. Opposition Member: It is near the palace.Mr Mwewa: Just near State House, the UTH, the highest and biggest hospital in Zambia, has no mosquito nets. I am appealing to the Executive tolook into this. There are more cars in Lusaka as compared to wheelchairs at the UTH.
Mr M. H. Malama: Shame!
Mr V. Mwale: Mwaumfwa ba PF!
Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, I feel, urge and plead with the Executive to kindly listen to the cries of Zambians. Why are we losing our own health workers to neighbouring countries such as Botswana and Namibia after they get trained? It is because they get more money there. 
Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, I was once in America …
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Laughter

{mospagebreak} 

Mr M. H. Malama: Hear, hear! Bauze, mudala!
Mr Mwewa: Yes, let me give you an example. 
… studying and working there. I was told that the best way one could ever earn money was to work in the health sector. I started driving an ambulance after school. I was getting more money because I was a worker in the health sector. Therefore, the same thing can happen here in Zambia. We can make those health workers happy and put a smile on their faces and they will be able to provide the services that a patient needs if only we can pat them on their back and thank them very much by adding on what they are getting.
I thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson: The last one to debate on this Vote will be Hon. Miyutu. We have a lot of Votes to consider. So, it may not be possible for all of us to speak on one Vote. If you do not have the opportunity to speak on that Vote, you may be given an opportunity to speak on another because we have to move.
Mr Miyutu (Kalabo): Mr Chairperson, I stand here to support the 2012 budgetary allocation to the Ministry of Health. Whilst I commend the increase in allocations to the different sectors of the ministry, I have a few observations to make.
 Sir, usually, the heart is the owner of blood …
Laughter 
Mr Miyutu: … and so, it will never run short of it. When it runs short of blood, a person dies. What surprises me, when I am in Kalabo, is that we have the Ministry of Health quite alright and doctors, accountants with degrees, diplomas and doctorates of philosophy (PhDs), but then I ask myself whether that is the Ministry of Health. 
Laughter 
Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, in the Garden of Eden, when God created man, the first thing He did was to put life in this human being. To sustain Adam, he breathed life into his nostrils. Therefore, the biggest task that we have, as human beings, on earth is to sustain our lives. In my view, the Ministry of Health should sustain the lives of Zambians. When allocating the resources to the Ministry of Health, we should ask ourselves whether these resources will sustain or save the lives of Zambians. 
Mr Chairperson, let me talk about blood supply in Zambia. If you take a patient who needs blood transfusion to Kalabo District Hospital, the hospital will tell you that there is no blood in the blood bank.
Laughter 
Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, therefore, it means that you have to put the life of this patient in suspense because there is no blood, but who can do that?
Laughter 
Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, whilst allocating resources to the Ministry of Health, the hon. Minister for Health has to take into account the problem of supply of blood in this country.
Laughter 
Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, the centralised method or the system of giving blood from Lusaka to other provinces, to me, does not help us in Kalabo. If the Ministry of Health will continue supplying blood from Lusaka to Kalabo, I would then suggest that the hon. Minister finds a plane that will be used for this exercise. We usually run out of blood, but staff in Kalabo are not allowed to secure blood locally. You all know that there is no replacement for blood. Whether you drink clean water or not, that will not bring about blood.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: The chemistry of water will never change to iron molecules that make the blood. Blood just comes from the red bone marrow and not the water that we drink. This is the reason professors improvised that there only be blood transfusion. However, if we do not supply blood, how do you expect people to survive? We have lost many lives in Kalabo due to a lack of blood.
Mr Chairperson, let us take this issue seriously. I always caution the Executive not to look at Lusaka hospitals only. When you allocate resources, you must know that we have remote rural areas where there are no tarred roads or an effective transport system in general. Therefore, there must be an alternative to take this blood to Kalabo whenever we want it because we are also Zambians like the people in Lusaka. Dr. Singini would like to treat people, but Kalabo District Hospital has no blood bank. He has no transport to come to Lusaka to collect the blood. That is why I am saying that there must be a better way of supplying blood to Kalabo District Hospital.
Mr Chairperson, as regards infrastructure, and before I forget, I have seen in this Yellow Book, just like other hon. Members have stated, something on allocation, on two pages, staff monitoring and have noted that the money is more than that allocated for medicine. The money allocated to drugs is around K600 million, but for monitoring, it is K1 trillion plus. Are we interested in the lives of the Zambians? We are not. How do you allocate a trillion kwacha to supervising what is not there?
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: Who are you going to supervise at the clinic where there is no worker? This K1 trillion, through the Chairperson, should go to purchasing of drugs while the K600 million must go to monitoring because there are more people in villages who have no drugs and have …
Mr Mwenya: On a point of order, Sir.
The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central in order not to specify from the Budget the page where it is indicated that K1 trillion plus has been allocated for monitoring? We would like him to clearly indicate and give clear information because the general public is listening to our debate. I need a serious ruling.
The Chairperson: Well, the serious ruling is that the hon. Minister of Health will have the opportunity to either agree or disagree with what Hon. Miyutu is saying. He need not necessarily indicate the page because this is a policy debate.
May the hon. Member, continue.
Mr Miyutu: I thank you, Sir, for your serious protection.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!
Mr Miyutu: Before the interruption, I was about to talk about infrastructure. Kalabo District Hospital is just by name on your records here in Lusaka, hon. Minister. You record that we have a district hospital in Kalabo, but when you go to this district hospital, this time of the year, December, there are serious leakages. When it is raining, beds have to be shifted from one corner to the other.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: Sir, if a human being created by God can die, what more that which has been made by a person who was created by God? It has to wear out. It is as simple as that. What is needed is replacement. We have to maintain these structures by allocating money for maintenance of Kalabo District Hospital for instance. The black tiles which were put, in 1972, are still there in patches, and yet governments have been in existence since 1990, trying to make things worse.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: Now that people have a new Government, I hope that, maybe, by the end of this term, we will have good tiles and a roof at that hospital. 
Mr Chairperson, there are some people who tell lies and I have said before that, in this world, there are people who are called liars.
The Chairperson: Order!
We do not allow the use of that word here. Can you, please, withdraw it and proceed.
Mr Miyutu: Sir, I withdraw the word ‘liar’. There are people who like to misguide.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: They do not guide others in the right direction.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Miyutu: We, being the representatives of the people, have to tell the truth and, I think, the hon. Minister is taking note of what I am saying. 
Mr Chairperson, Kalabo District Hospital was previously supported by foreign doctors. During their stay at the hospital, they renovated the theatre. Currently, there is a blocked wall that was constructed through donations from the Netherlands. However, there are only Zambian doctors who are poorly paid. As a result, they are not able to contribute to the development of that hospital. It is against this background that I am urging the hon. Minister to seriously take care of Kalabo District Hospital.
Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister, in his policy statement, stated that clinics should be within a walking distance of about 5 km, but this is not the case in Kalabo District. We walk distances of about 60 km to get to the nearest rural health centre. Even when you have a backache or headache, you have to cover this distance because there is no transport there. Is it possible for a person who has a backache to cover a distance of 60 km? 
There is the Namatindi Clinic which is designed badly. Sir, it is not good to design things for others just for the sake of it. Let us design things well so that we make Zambia a better place. After all, that is the theme, “Making Zambia a better place for all.” This includes the people of Kalabo.
Mrs Masebo: Not “a President for all?”
Mr Miyutu: The clinic is an ‘L’ type of building and this has technical disadvantages during the rainy season as showers always fall in the waiting room.
Mr Chairperson, if you go to Lyumba Clinic, today, you will find water on the floor because where the windows are supposed to be is just too open and wide. Therefore, there is a need to change the design of these clinics and improve them. We need an increased allocation towards the improvement of clinic designs.  As we have heard from the hon. Member for Chongwe, we should not pride on paperwork of having constructed this and that. How do you construct a clinic without a worker? Will these people go to the walls, sit there and get treated?
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: No, it is not the wall which will treat people. It is the worker, the human resource and the drugs. We want these things to be put in health facilities.
The Budget can be adjusted. More money can be allocated to the Ministry of Health so that people continue to be in good health. For example, I have seen healthy people without shoes.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: We cannot say that because someone has no shoes, then, he is not healthy.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: Health has nothing to do with what you wear. It is the state of the body; the texture and state of the skin. All this has to be looked into by the Ministry of Health. I urge the Government to allocate more resources to the Ministry of Health.
Sir, on a serious note, let us minimise on seminars. I talked to Dr Maimpa, who comes from Philippines, at Yuuka Mission Hospital.  He complained about attending so many workshops where the same things are discussed such that he has no time to attend to patients. He wants the management, in Lusaka, to change this scenario so that there is more time spent with patients than seminars. For sure, there are too many resources going into seminars compared to what is going into the actual treatment of patients in the clinics. I think it is high time the ministry looked into this issue.
Sir, in my church, we do not say, “With these words”; we say, “With this word” because it is great. I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Laughter
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
The Chairperson: Before I call upon the hon. Minister of Health to wind up debate, I just want to guide the hon. Members of the Executive not to answer each comment made by hon. Members because that takes a long time. For example, if five hon. Members talk about the need to cut down on workshops, it is not necessary for the hon. Minister to address each of the questions because their substance is the same. It will be repetition. 
The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Thank you for that guidance, Mr Chairperson.
Let me begin by thanking the hon. Members who have contributed to this debate and, in particular, to recognise the seriousness with which they have taken the subject of health. It is clear that hon. Members of this House are concerned about the health of their people, the service that is delivered and they want things done. Hon. Members, I thank you for this attitude and collaboration which we, together, will need to develop the health service. 
Sir, if I may summarise the broad areas that have been of great interest and concern, the foremost is human resources for health. I must concede that the hon. Member for Kalabo Central introduced the subject in a way that puts life into the issue of human resources. Hon Member for Kalabo Central, I thank you for that. 
Sir, the foremost concern in the ministry is human resources. We want to recruit the appropriate kind of people and retain them. We do not want to lose them to other countries as we have done in the case of doctors, whereby some 1,400 have been trained, but only 700 have remained in the country. We want to train new competent human resources. That is a priority. 
I am grateful for your support for the concept of the three C’s as our standing instruction for the service that we shall deliver. We have evidence brought forward by many of the speakers to the effect that the caring element seems to be missing in our staff and, again, it takes us back to the human resource. The competence element, sometimes, is missing. The issue of cleanliness also hinges on human resource. I think the third area was that of drugs and I agree that the supply of drugs to our health centres has been a concern for many years. Is it not high time we got rid of this issue once and for all and looked at this matter as an element of our history? I have taken upon myself the obligation to take the serious actions that are needed to put this matter behind us. I do not have time, as the Chairperson mentioned, to go into the details, but I will have occasion to describe some of the things that we are doing.
There has been the issue of infrastructure development of how we build hospitals and whether or not we have shelters for relatives. Yes, we do have a programme of continuous infrastructure development following on what our colleagues in the previous administration did. However, we have admitted that there were aspects of the programmes, in the past, with which we cannot identify ourselves. These are delayed and opening facilities without appropriate staff and equipment.  We are going to take care of all of those things holistically. 
Sir, having covered the broad areas of concern, maybe, I could point out one or two issues that have been mentioned by specific individuals. As the Chairperson has pointed out, I do not intend to answer all the questions, but to appreciate, note and take them into account. 
Sir, I appreciate, very much, the comments made by the hon. Member for Mumbwa, particularly his concern for the design of the structures. I have pointed out that we shall look at this as a special case. We shall not just construct, but construct with a view of the functionality of the facility. 
Sir, the hon. Member for Chongwe emphasised the importance of the removal of user fees. We have abolished these fees and, I think, that is what was needed as we promised the people of Zambia. However, I must caution hon. Members that the next stage is to develop an appropriate framework by which financial support to the health sector will be obtained. In this respect, the hon. Member for Mumbwa mentioned the medical levy. We believe that there is a context in which that appears. In other words, we should come up with a suitable fund, including the medical levy, and other contributions that will be the basic resource for financial care. That basic resource will be available for supplementation by our donors and collaborating partners. However, we must have a local basic resource. 
Sir, I will not comment on the issue raised by the hon. Member for Chilubi because I have already covered it when commenting on human resource. Hon. Mwewa talked about motivation of staff and, again, I have emphasised our intention to address that concern. 
Finally, Sir, I do not think that it is necessary for me to go through all the numerous points raised. They are very supportive, but I am sure you want me to conclude where I started, namely, in Kalabo Central. The issue of the K1 trillion allocated to monitoring seems to be a puzzle to me. The total amount that has been allocated for the health sector is K2,566,933,794,819. I cannot believe, and I hope no hon. Member believes that half of that has been dedicated to monitoring. I would request hon. Members to be kind enough to be accurate. This is an institution that is noted for its accuracy. I hope this kind of inaccuracy will not be introduced into the House again.
Mr Chairperson, I rest my case.
Thank you, Sir.
VOTE 46/01 – (Ministry of Health – Human Resource and Administration – K392,568, 415,905).
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5001, Activity 006 – Protocol and Foreign Travel – K360,467,026 and Activity 007 – Athletics and Social Games – K84,554,805. I would like to find out why these activities have been classified under Poverty Reduction Programme (PRP). How will these activities reduce poverty?
The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Chairperson, the provision is meant to meet expenses related to foreign travel on Government business by officials in the Ministry of Health and related protocol duties for the entire public health sector. 
Thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson:  If I got it right, the question was why those activities are under the PRP. 
Mr Kakoma repeated the question.
Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, Activity 007 – Athletics and Social Games – K84,554,805 is meant to meet ministerial expenses in sporting activities for members of staff. It does not necessarily fall under the PRP.
Thank you, Sir.
Vote 46/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

{mospagebreak} 

VOTE 46/10 – (Ministry of Health – Central Province – K118,855,815,034).
Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5000 – Personal Emoluments – K12,600,478,759, Programme 5024 – Health Service Delivery (PRP) – K1,520,874,307, Programme 5025 – District Health Systems Management  (PRP) – K1,003,398,402. The unit total is K15,124,751,468 and of this amount, K12,600,478,759 is going towards personal emoluments whereas the core programme of Health Service Delivery has K1,520,874,307. May I know why there was this form of allocation, particularly in terms of ratios that are about 84:10:6?
Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, the salaries quoted have, of course, been the subject of our discussion. It is important that appropriate salaries are given. I am not sure why the hon. Member would consider that K12 billion for the actual provision of service would be out of step with that because the service consists of the three groups of salaries but, also, of the actual delivery in terms of the work being done, the operations and the caring for the sick. This encompasses everything that you do to treat a person. So, I do not find any contradiction between the two.
Vote 46/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 46/12 – (Ministry of Health – Eastern Province – K141,718,958,384).
Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification Programme 5025, Activity 012 – Supervisory Visits – K93,468,893. There is a reduction from K128 million for Lundazi District Health Management Team. What is the reason for the reduction?
Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the funds are required to allow the health office undertake supervisory visits to various health facilities in the districts. The reduction in the amount is because some supervisory visits have already been done.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5024, Activity 039 – Support Functions – K620,589,468. I would like to know why there is a reduction from K902 million. 
Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the drugs are procured centrally and the reduction is as a result of mobile hospitals.
I thank you, Sir.                                                  
Vote 46/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 46/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 46/15 – (Ministry of Health – North-Western Province – K102,366,549,070).
Mr Kakoma: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 9003 – Construction of Hospitals – K7,123,756,895. In which districts will these hospitals be constructed in the North-Western Province?
The Chairperson: The hon. Minister of Health.
Dr Chikusu looking for the Vote in the Yellow Book.
The Chairperson: Well, if you do not have the answer now, maybe, you can provide it later. The hon. Member wants to know which hospitals will be constructed in the North-Western Province.
46/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
The Chairperson: Order! May I just appeal to the hon. Minister to pay particular attention to questions to avoid delays.
VOTE 46/16 – (Ministry of Health – Northern Province ¬¬- K139,979,703,999).
Mr Zimba (Kapiri-Mposhi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5000, Activity 001 – Salaries Division I – K206,722,024. May I know why this figure has been doubled while there have just been minimal increases in the allocations for other divisions. 
Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, these funds are required for the payment of salaries to officers serving in Division I in accordance with staff establishment and conditions of service. The increase is due to the recruitment of new staff and annual salary increments.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 46/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 46/17 – (Ministry of Health – Southern Province – K223,928,263,150).
Mr Moonde (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5025, Activity 020 – Utilities and Other Office Costs – K77,311,801. I notice that the amount has been reduced to almost half of what it was this year. May I know why.
Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, these funds are required to settle utility bills which include those for electricity, water and telephones.
I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
46/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 
VOTE 46/18 – (Ministry of Health – Western Province – K107,286,496,036).
Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5024, Activity 042 – Health Centre Clinical Care Service. There is a reduction from K478,856,171 to K235,944,298. I also see a reduction on Programme 5024, Activity 042 ─ Health Centre Clinical Care Service, from K753,074,531 to K358,583,582. Why do we have all these reductions?
Interruptions
Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, …
The Chairperson: Order! We have advisors here who pass on notes. I want to allow you to read the note before you say something that is not correct. What does the note say?
Laughter
Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the reduction is due to re-prioritisation of activities.
The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, could you, please, read aloud. We cannot hear you.
Dr Chikusu: Sir, we have set priorities which will conform to the reduction.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 051 – Rehabilitation and Extension of Health Facilities. I see a reduction from K843,443,730 to K750,129,475. May I know the reason for this reduction?
Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the funds are required to meet the costs of rehabilitation and extension of health infrastructure. The reduction is due to the fact that some of the works have already been done.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, unfortunately, the hon. Ministers are not answering the questions posed. They are simply explaining what the funds are required for and we are asking why there are reductions.
The Chairperson: What happens is that they start the answers the other way round.  They would begin by stating what the money is allocated for and then the reason for the reduction would follow. The answers are given towards the end of the response. I think that hon. Ministers should answer the questions first before going into details. If you start with the requirement for the money, people will think you are not answering the question. However, I wish to state that I have noticed that the question by Hon. Miyutu was answered. I am ready to give the Floor to any hon. Member who has another question.
46/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 51 – Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – K360,337,002,698).
The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, it is my pleasure and honour to stand and deliver the key note speech in support of the 2012 budget for this new Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to this august House.
Sir, allow me to clearly outline the performance of the sector, in 2011, and later talk about the strategic interventions that this Government intends or proposes to pursue in 2012. 
Sir, allow me to thank all past the hon. Ministers of this sector for their performance and contributions to the sector. My ministry’s performance, in 2011, hinges on undertaking the following:

(i)    formulation and revision of policy, legal and regulatory frameworks affecting the transport, works, supply and communication sectors;

(ii)    develop, rehabilitate and maintain transport, communication and meteorology infrastructure as well as to provide support services; and

(iii)    provision of resources for management and administration of the ministry.
Mr Chairperson, the ministry attaches great importance to the improvement of road infrastructure in the country because of the role transport plays in enhancing service delivery.
Sir, an efficient safe transport system is a catalyst to an effective and progressive economy. My ministry is committed to public infrastructure development. It will execute and continue with all the progressive projects left by its predecessors. 
Road Sub-sector
Mr Chairperson, in 2011, the Government continued to carry out various activities that included construction, rehabilitation and maintenance of road infrastructure whose revised core road network length is 40,454 km. The ministry embarked on the construction and rehabilitation of identified major roads in the country, for example, the Kasama/Luwingu, Kasempa Turn-off/Kabompo, Kabompo/Chavuma, Chipata/Lundazi, Chipata/Mfuwe, Serenje/Mansa, Zambezi/Chavuma, Senanga/Sesheke, Mongu/Kalabo, Isoka/Muyombe and Landless corner/Mumbwa roads. The earlier plan was to spend K3 trillion, but an addition of K1 trillion was made available for paved roads under the Formular 1 Project for the Urban Road Rehabilitation Programme in provinces such as Copperbelt, Lusaka and Central.
Mr Chairperson, in an effort to reduce the damage on the Zambian roads as a result of overloading, the Government continued implementing the Axle Load Control Programme at our weighbridges, whose main target is to reduce excessive stresses on our roads so as to reduce road damage and risks associated with overloading. The weighbridges, which were completed and are operational, include the ones in Livingstone, Mpika, Solwezi and Kazungula. While the construction of weighbridges at Kasumbalesa and Masangano on the Great-East Road are at design stage, the designs for the new weigh bridges at Mumbwa and Kafue have been completed and are awaiting the commencement of works. 
Water Transport
Mr Chairperson, although water transport grossly underperformed during the period under review, the ministry procured two state-of-the-art dredging machines for Lake Bangweulu and Zambezi River. The ministry also rehabilitated the Post Boat on Lake Bangweulu. The Government repossessed the port of Mpulungu and has since handed it over to its traditional landlord, Mpulungu Habour Co-operation. The port capacity is intended to be enhanced by the proposed new rail link to the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) for easy transportation of heavy and bulky loads. 
Mr Chairperson, with regard to bridge pontoon programmes, in 2011, the Government made progress in the designing and construction of bridges to provide vital links on roads. In this regard, contracts were procured for the construction of the Zambezi Bridge at Maziba Bay, in Senanga, Shang’ombo, in the Western Province, and Mbesuma Bridge on the Chambeshi River in the Northern Province. 
Mr Chairperson, the Government is also in the process of procuring contracts for the construction of the Chiawa Bridge across the Kafue River and Mufuchani Bridge across the same river in Kitwe. 
Marked progress has also been made in the designing of the bridge and border facilities at Kazungula and construction is expected to commence soon. 
Mr Chairperson, on air transport, a number of airports had a facelift, notably among these are: 
(i)    the Kasaba Bay Runway Project;

(ii)    the Mansa Control Tower;

(iii)    the Solwezi Airport where the Government, in collaboration with the First Quantum Minerals Mine, has continued to expand the runway and develop associated support infrastructure; and

(iv)     rehabilitation at the Harry Mwanga Nkumbula International Airport terminal building is in progress. 

Mr Chairperson, as regards rail transport, in 2011, the rail transport sub-sector grossly underperformed and faced a number of challenges. The Government is very concerned about the poor performance of the rail sector because of its overall implication on the economy and the shift of the load burden to other transport systems, especially the road system. The inter-mine railway on the Copperbelt has collapsed due to non-usage, poor performance and vandalism.
Mr Chairperson, the TAZARA debt crisis continues to haunt the shareholding governments of Tanzania and Zambia. While the Tanzanian Government has continued to provide a subsidy to the ailing company, Zambia has not reciprocated. This has resulted in tension among staff of the two nationalities and even threats to remove the Zambians from management positions in TAZARA. 
Sir, TAZARA has debt of over US$800 million that is to be shared by the two shareholding nations of Zambia and Tanzania. The re-capitalisation for TAZARA stands at US$210 million. However, the debt accruing to Zambian workers in unpaid statutory obligations stands at US$30 million.
Mr Chairperson, as regards the building sub-sector, construction of one-stop-border post facilities at busy border posts was planned and started. The construction of border facilities at the Kasumbalesa Border Post was completed and is operational whilst the Nakonde Border Post is under construction. Other major projects undertaken, in 2011, were and include construction of houses for former presidents, rehabilitation of Government House, mausoleums at the presidential burial site at Embassy Park, street lighting and resurfacing of parking pavements at both Chirundu and Katima Mulilo Border posts and construction of office blocks and housing in the newly districts. 
Mr Chairperson, other developments are the rehabilitation and construction of other Government buildings in different sectors such as technical education, agriculture, health, home affairs, education, tourism, mining, defence and security.
The Chairperson: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. 
[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, with regard to sports, the construction of the 40,180 sitting capacity ultra modern stadium, in Ndola, was completed and the construction of another ultra modern stadium, in Lusaka, is in progress. 
The banquet hall and conference facilities at the new Government Complex have also been completed.
Mr Chairperson, in relation to the public-private partnership (PPP) projects, the Government is seriously considering private sector financing in the provision of public infrastructure under the PPP arrangement. A number of projects will have to be executed through this mode. 
Mr Chairperson, as regards printing services, the Government would not print the ballot papers for the Presidential, Parliamentary and Local Government Elections, in 2011, due to a number of challenges. My ministry, therefore, will embark on the re-capitalisation of the Government Printing Department to enable the department print ballot papers for the 2016 Elections. 
Mr Chairperson, the Information and Communication Technologies Sub-Sector continues to be the fastest growing sector of the Zambian economy as at now. 
On mobile phones, while, in 2009, there were 4,165,101 mobile phone users, in 2010, the figure rose to 5,144,000 users. In 2011, we have about 6.2 million plus users, reflecting a penetration level of 47 per cent. While there was much growth in mobile phone connectivity, the internet and broadband connectivity has been very low, with a subscriber base of 37,211 reflecting a penetration of 0.28 per cent as at the end of June, 2011. 
In 2011, policy reforms were also initiated such as the registration of the electronic communication apparatus. Under this statutory instruction, all sim cards will have to be registered to the holder of the device. This is meant to curb abuse of the devices and enhance security on the cyber space. 
Sir, further, the ministry is working with the Ministry of Justice to develop a statutory instrument (SI) on inter-connection, co-location and access. The SI will provide a legal and regulatory framework for the inter-connecting and sharing of the ICT infrastructure amongst the operators to support the growth of the sector to avoid duplication of the infrastructure and also to ensure equitable access and delivery of efficient and affordable services to the customers. 
In order to promote the expansion of the ICT infrastructure and services to cover unserved peri-urban and rural areas, the Government, in 2011, issued SI No.23, Remission, Electronic Communications Regulations, 2011, waiving duty and the roll-out of towers and associated mobile communication equipment
Mr Chairperson, arising from this intervention, communication services have been extended to, at least, 100 previously unserved rural areas. Over 356 rural areas are to receive the service under this initiative. 
Key Challenges Faced by the Sector in 2011
Mr Chairperson, the Transport and Communications Department remains un-restructured despite the 2006 approval of the new infrastructure. This state of affairs has made it difficult for the ministry to effectively deliver on its mandate because of manpower challenges in terms of quality and quantity.
The Budget ceilings for 2012 have not made it possible either to cater for most important issues, for example, retired general post office officers; terminal payments for ex-contract haulage employees estimated to be around K2.5 billion; most outstanding statutory obligations at TAZARA; part consideration of the Electronic-Government (E-Governance) programme; the installation of video conference facilities; meteorological infrastructure and navigation equipment at the Kenneth Kaunda, Harry Mwaanga and Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International airports. 
The key issues to be addressed in the 2012 Budget
Mr Chairperson, 2012 will see the undertaking of an unprecedented number of feasibility studies and designs on major road links countrywide in recent history. More than twenty major road links, which are a direct result of the Presidential pronouncements, are intended to improve the connectivity between districts and provinces within Zambia and the sub-region.
Sir, after the study, we intend to proceed to construction of the said roads. We intend to construct a safer road network for our people. My ministry has further identified a number of road projects for upgrading into dual carriage ways which will include, but not limited to Kitwe/Chingola Road.
A consultant has been engaged to carry out feasibility studies on the possibility of tolling of selected roads from Chirundu to Chililabombwe and the entire country. The report is yet to be finalised. It is expected that this project will be implemented in 2012. 
Mr Chairperson, as you may know, the Government has amended the Tolls Act to allow the private sector collect toll fees without hindrance. The tolling of the roads will be done under the PPP arrangement. 
This Government intends to repair even the Rural Road Unit (RRU) equipment that was bought as most of it has broken down. It is this basic component to our rural road rehabilitation that will ensure that most of the roads are passable. Apart from the country’s road network, the following are some of the other key programmes for 2012:
(i)    completion of the Kasaba Bay Airport Runway Project, which is a key component of the prioritised Northern Tourism Circuit programme by the Government; 

(ii)    rehabilitation of airport facilities and infrastructure at Solwezi, Mansa, Mongu and Kasama airports in order to expand accessibility to all parts of the country as well as to meet …

The Chairperson: Order!
I am a little uncomfortable with the talking that is going behind the hon. Minister. I am sure it distracts his attention.You may continue, please.
Mr Mukanga: 
… Government’s obligations under the PPP. This is also in line with the Government’s infrastructure development programme. K30 billion has been provided to that effect;

(iii)    the Government intends to carry out the rehabilitation of selected district aerodromes across the country. This is to ensure air access for provision of social services that include evacuation of casualties, emergency food relief and disaster management;

(iv)     my Government will rehabilitate, reopen and expand the metrological stations at Sesheke, Senanga, Kalabo and metrological headquarters in order to provide accurate weather focus to support the Government’s priority sectors such as agriculture, tourism, mining and infrastructure development;

(v)    the PF Government is committed to revitalise TAZARA. To this effect, it has set aside K40 billion for recapitalisation, reconstruction and payment of terminal benefits of TAZARA retirees in the 2012 Budget;

(vi)    the Government will dialogue with all stakeholders on how to revitalise the inter-mine railway operation. It is anticipated that once the inter-mine railway is fully operational, the heavy loads being transported by road will shift to the railways hence reduce the current national levels of expenditure on road network rehabilitation and maintenance;

(vii)    in a bid to develop the railway, our Government and the Government of the Republic of China carried out a pre-feasibility study on two proposed railway lines between Chipata/Mchinji and TAZARA/Nseluka/ Mpulungu on Lake Tanganyika. The pre-feasibility study report is yet to be finalised in 2012;

(viii)    we also intend to carry out the improved Njanji Commuter above ground rail project as one of the projects to be undertaken under the PPP arrangement. This will definitely decongest our capital city, Lusaka;

(ix)    feasibility studies and detailed design for Livingstone/Katima Mulilo/ Kazungula Bridge Railway Line, which is to connect the Zambia Railway Network to Walvis Bay and to Botswana Rail Network via Kazungula Bridge, for trade facilitation and to provide for heavy and bulky cargo, is to be finalised in 2012;

(x)    implementation of quality management systems by November, 2012, as required meeting the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) standards. This activity is important to avert an international ban on flights coming into Zambia which will be at variance with the country’s aspiration to be a preferred tourism and investment destination;

(xi)    large-scale human resource development to meet manpower needs created by the restructuring of the Department of Civil Aviation into an autonomous authority under the 10th European Development Fund is in line with the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) audit recommendation to be conducted;

(xii)    construction of post offices in Shang’ombo and Vubwi areas to facilitate access to information and delivery of services to the citizenry that include, among others, payment to farmers on behalf of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and provision of financial services;

(xiii)    implement E-Government to facilitate provision of efficient citizens’ services delivered through an integrated and secure delivery platform. This is in order to create a national data bank and links that will interconnect all Government ministries and other institutions;

(xiv)    in 2012, we will procure one dredger and operationalise the dredging equipment that is available to facilitate the development, rehabilitation and maintenance of inland waterways and canals for the provision and efficient safe water transport services to support socio-economic sectors that include agriculture, commerce, education and health;

(xv)    construction of new office block at the ministry of Transport, Works Supply and Communication in order to provide for adequate office accommodation;

(xvi)    there will also be development of an inter-modal national transport master plan with the view of enhancing private sector participation competitiveness, safety, navigation and worthiness and increase handling capacity in the sector; and

(xvii)    management of road traffic safety and education will be implemented through the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), the Government and the mining companies interested in transporting their cargo using these systems.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry will endeavour to provide quality conference and lodging facilities to the general public through the Hostels Board of Management. The construction of Solwezi Lodge has reached an advanced stage whilst Long acres Lodge has been earmarked for the PPP to transform it into a five star hotel plus shops and parking spaces. Other lodges in the country will also have a face lift.
Sir, with these few words, I would appeal to this august House to support the budget of this important sector of our country and ministry so that we may bring sustainable development to the common man on the street and everybody in this country.
I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for permitting me to make comments regarding the policy statement given by the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. It is actually a mouthful nowadays. We were used to calling it something else before.
Sir, the hon. Minister indicated his desire for us to support the budget for his ministry. I want to start by saying that he has got my support. I am sure that he has also got the support of all hon. Members of Parliament seated herein. However, I just want to make a few comments regarding his policy statement.
First of all, I am agreeing that that there surely shall be an unprecedented level of feasibility studies as the hon. Minister has indicated in his policy statement. I want to attribute this to the fact that we are still doing things the haphazard way of pursuing a development agenda. I say so because, in his own words, the hon. Minister indicated that this is arising from the Presidential pronouncements that there will be these unprecedented feasibility studies. This means we will definitely be running at a very fast pace. The danger with that is that the feasibility studies may not be up-to-date. 
Mr Chairperson, we have seen many feasibility studies that have been undertaken in this country and have not yielded anything. What I want to advise the hon. Minister is that for us to gain confidence and support his ministry’s budget lines, he should advise the President to minimise a little on public pronouncements from a political angle since the hon. Minister is sixth in Cabinet and talks to the Head of State.  This would be very good in ensuring that our development agenda is not haphazard. 
Mr Chairperson, I am quite certain that the reason the delivery of this Budget was delayed is that the new Executive wanted to realign the figures in accordance with the President’s desires and aspirations, which include the development of roads as explained by the Head of Sate. My view is that we must look at the country in its entirety. We must look at what one would call, in the business world, as the return on investment.  We should see how the country can benefit faster by putting our monies where our mouths are. 
Sir, for instance, if I were Hon. Mukanga, I would tell President Sata that I want us to look at the Itezhi-tezhi Road very quickly because, in Itezhi-tezhi, we have a 120 MW power station in the offing. This would help his colleague, Hon. Yaluma, to actually move equipment faster to Itezhi-tezhi for us to generate power. Itezhi-tezhi also has a high potential for tourism. I think that there would be a higher return on investment if we put that 90 km road to Itezhi-tezhi on our priority list in order to generate power which can even be exported. As I said earlier, we can also attract tourism into Itezhi-tezhi.
Mr Chairperson, I consider myself to be slightly above constituency politics now. What I want to say to Hon. Mukanga is that I have noted that our colleagues on your right have taken the path of their predecessors in opening up the Northern Circuit. Money amounting to K20 billion has been allocated for Kasaba Bay Airport. Well done for this.  Money has also been allocated for Kasama and Mansa Airports. However, I think the Government would have done better by fully capacitating Kasama Airport because, in case many hon. Members do not know, this airport is actually a nerve centre for all flights that come out of Johannesburg into Europe. All flights that come out of the north into the southern part of Africa use the Kasama Airport beacon as a flight path. We have argued here before that, indeed Kasaba Bay is good for the opening up of tourism, but Kasama Airport would have been giving us a much bigger return on investment if it was given priority.
Mr Chairperson, hon. Members who come from places like Nsumbu would agree with me that Hon. Mukanga would have done better to advise the Head of State on the road project that was abandoned by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) from Mbala going to Kasaba Bay. When this project got to a certain river, I think the people who come from there will tell me the name of the river, it stalled. 
Hon. PF Members: Lufubu River.
Mr Nkombo: There you go. There is a gravel road up to Lufubu River, which the MMD, began working on, but failed to finish. In order to get to Nsumbu, one has to go to Mporokoso and from there to Nsumbu. It could take you not less than eight hours to get to Nsumbu. It would have been better for Hon. Mukanga to advise the President to slow down on pronouncements so that the Government does not rush to aligning the Budget in order to please the powers that be. 
Mr Chairperson, let me now move on. I can give another example of where I come from; Southern Province. I would have been happy if Hon. Mukanga, for instance, advised the President to make sure that the Chisekesi/Gwembe Road is broadened because it opens up the area around the Kariba Dam which can help to boost tourism. We want the Bottom Road worked on quite okay, but I think that the stopgap measure would have been to quickly put money towards the construction of the Chisekesi/Gwembe/Chipepo Road. This would enable people get there faster and attract investment into Gotagota and all those pleasure resorts that some people may not get to even know about, and yet they are so near here.
Mr Chairperson, moving on with my debate, I am surprised, as a matter of fact astonished, that Hon. Mukanga, who not long ago, was part of the vuvuzelas, those horns from this end who screamed out the fact that the concession between the Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ) and Zambia Railways required to be revisited, has not mentioned this in his policy statement. He has said, in his own words, that there is too much damage on our roads and that there are load control interventions at weigh bridges to try and basically circumvent people from overloading their trucks. This leads to destruction of our roads. Hon. Mukanga knows that we have been saying the answer to that problem will be to revisit the RSZ concession. 
 Sir, maybe, the hon. Minister is under instruction from the Head of State not to mention it. We, on your left hand side, feel this is a priority because it is also not a secret that the concession was abrogated a long time ago. It is not a secret that the RSZ abrogated the contract and, because of that, this Government, which is new and has no skirmishes, should simply point this out to the company. 
I believe that part of the contract terms were that the RSZ was going to improve on the signals of our railway track from Nkana to Livingstone. This has not been done. Today, we have human signals; people who stand to stop vehicles from passing each time a passenger or goods train is passing. That is a clear abrogation. Hon. Mukanga should know that we do not see any more signal lights, red or green. 
Mr Chairperson, this falls far short of my expectation from the hon. Minister’s policy statement. I expected that he was going to actually be straight to the point that the concession requires to be revisited in the strictest sense so that the Zambian people, who travel from Livingstone, are relieved from the exorbitant costs of travelling such as buying expensive fuel. In many developing countries, railway systems have acted as a cushion for expense on travel. I am surprised our colleagues are talking about Njanji Commuter Service which runs from Matero to Chilenje. That is a small picture. We, in the United Party for National Development (UPND), think that we should put our ideas around the railway track from Nkana, Kitwe to Livingstone.
Mr Mukanga and Mr Chikwanda: It is from Chililabombwe.
Mr Nkombo: Thank you for the correction that it is from Chililabombwe, hon. Member for Kantanshi and hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and my uncle, Hon. Chikwanda. Fortunately, I have not been there. I have only ended up in Chingola.
Laughter 
Mr Nkombo: I, however, accept the correction and in you supplementing my debate, I am under the assumption that you are actually agreeing that we need to …
The Chairperson: Order, order! 
So far, you have been debating very well because you have been addressing the Chair, but now you have changed position a little. Can you address the Chair.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I think I have also delivered that point about railway signals. Let me now move on to the dangers that exist on our roads. I would like to appeal to Hon. Mukanga that RTSA needs to be asked to help with road signs. Many of the deaths that occur on our roads are as a result of either the road being in disrepair or there being no signs. The hon. Minister must look into this and allocate more money to this matter. 
Mr Chairperson, coming back to constituency politics, in Mazabuka, just last week, I am sure you might have heard that, at Kaleya, there was a riot because children and adults being hit by vehicles has become like an annual ceremony. I can confirm to you that we put up speed humps using our local resources, but there is a dangerous slope as you approach Mazabuka which needs the attention of your ministry and cannot be taken care of from the little Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which you have refused, as a Government, to increase. People have died there en masse and it should not wait for one of us to be found in a similar situation for you, as Government, to make a move. 
Mr Chairperson, I now want to quickly address the issue of communications. Hon. Mukanga, you and I we were trumpets here ...
Laughter 
The Chairperson: No, no, please, address the Chair by saying ‘him and I’ not ‘you and I’.
Laughter 
Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister and I were trumpets about opening up the communications industry vis-à-vis mobile service providers. We argued together. If I went through the Hansards, I would find his argument where he said we must allow companies such as Vodacom to come to Zambia. I know that Airtel is not here to defend itself, but it has been a very bad service provider. So, hon. Minister, you need to do something about this. It’s rates are extremely exorbitant and the same applies to MTN.
Interruptions 
Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, let them open up the market by bringing Cel C, Vodacom and others to participate in this economy. Then, there will be competition. 
Mr Chairperson, you cannot wake up a man who is already awake. Hon. Mukanga is aware about everything I am discussing here. It will be miraculous to wake up somebody who is already awake. He knows that …
Hon. Government Members: Address the Chair.
The Chairperson: Order! 
He is addressing the Chair not you.
Laughter 
Mr Nkombo: It will be miraculous to wake up a man who is wide awake. He knows that we need to liberalise this market in full so that we can get the gross benefit at the end of it all. Somebody talked about subscriber levels moving from 5 million to whatever figure. Yes, this is very good, but where is the money going? It is going …
Mr Hamududu interjected. 
Laughter 
Mr Nkombo: Ndambaula aisha. 
… to Airtel and MTN. If there were more players, that money would have been going into people’s pockets. As they keep saying, “more money in people’s pockets,” they have missed the target. Open the market for Vodacom and others to come and participate because the bigger the party, the merrier.
Thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to make a few comments on this extremely important ministry. Let me begin by commending the Minister, Hon. Mukanga, for a very good policy statement on a very complex and highly important ministry to our economy. Let me also acknowledge the fact that he has mentioned the need to continue with various projects which are important to our country. That is very good.
Mr Chairperson, this ministry is the catalyst to the efficiency and effectiveness of our economy. The movement of goods and services within the country and elsewhere and the movement of ideas through information communication technology (ICT) are key to the growth of our economy. It is through this ministry that an effective environment for investment will be established because investors are looking up to a system of transport network that is important or crucial to their operations be it by rail, road or aviation. That is what they are looking up to. Investors are also looking up to a very effective information communication environment. So, we have a ministry that is the nerve centre of our economy. What the hon. Minister and his staff does is extremely important to what Zambia is going to be, especially tomorrow and today.
Hon. Minister, I think you have zeroed in on some of the key areas of concern in your ministry. Clearly, the restructuring of the ministry is extremely important. This has been on the agenda for a long time and move on with it. Restructure it so that you bring it in line with efficiency and effectiveness of its operation. Staffing is generally a very difficult area in this ministry. There are very few qualified staff in your ministry.
The Chairperson: Professor Lungwangwa, may you address the Chair by saying the staff are very few in his ministry and so forth and so on. Do not address him directly.

{mospagebreak}

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for that guidance. Staffing levels are extremely low in this ministry. Therefore, there is a need to really put a lot of effort in raising the numbers of qualified staff. For example, at the Civil Aviation Department, one of the reasons we have had problems with ICAO is the number of qualified staff in that department. I am happy that, at least, K1.2 billion has been set aside for training purposes in that particular unit though we still need to do more because the international community is looking at our staffing levels to see whether, as Zambia, we are able to offer quality assurance in our flight industry. I think that is very important.
Mr Chairperson, it is also extremely important, as the hon. Minister has indicated in his policy statement, to pay attention to some of the areas which, under normal circumstances, people may not care about. For example, the meteorological stations in our country provide extremely important data for our agricultural and many other activities. I am happy that, in this policy statement and in the Budget of the ministry, a sum of K1 billion has been set aside for the rehabilitation of meteorological stations in the country and also K800 billion has been set aside for the construction of new meteorological stations, especially in the farming blocks. 
Mr Chairperson, other areas which many of us here may not care about, but which the ordinary person cares about are canal development. There are many parts of our country where people depend on canals for transportation and also for agricultural purposes and they cry out there for their canals to be dredged so that they can have waterways for their transportation and also, to some extent, controlling agricultural activities.  
Mr Chairperson, I am happy that the hon. Minister has allocated a sum of K2 billion to canal development in the country, which is very important. The peasants are looking for that kind of support. If you come from areas such as the Luapula and Western provinces where canals are very important, you will know that this is what people need. If we are able to do that, then, we are on the way to addressing the problems of poverty in our country.
Mr Chairperson, I am also happy that, in this budget, K3 billion has been allocated to the procurement of a dredging machine. Dredging machines are extremely important in our country as the hon. Minister indicated in his policy statement. Last year, we did, of course, procure a state-of-the-art dredging machine; two of them, one for Luapula and the other one for the Western Province. I think we need to buy more of these machines for the country. I am happy that this will be continued.
The whole area of e-governance is what will make the Government efficient, modern and effective. Therefore, we need to do a lot in that area to connect our different ministries, be able to communicate via ICT and do our work much more effectively. There should come a time when we should reduce the paperwork and increase communication via internet. I think that is the modern way and that is where we are all heading to. I am happy that a sum of K5 billion has been set aside for this purpose. I think this is very important. 
Mr Chairperson, Zambia, in terms of its centrality of location among eight neighbouring countries, is extremely advantaged in the sense that it can be the hub of transportation in the region. In Zambia, you can reach the east, west, north and south via different modes of transport and this is a big advantage for us. Therefore, the hon. Minister must continue repositioning the country. He must think about repositioning the country in such a way that we take full advantage of our geographical location, which, in the past, was looked at negatively. I think all of us, in our geography lessons, used to learn how terrible it is to be a landlocked country and that a lot of our problems were due to being landlocked. We are a land-linked country which is a very advantageous position. This is the ministry that will reposition the country to take full advantage of this land-linked nature. The various transport corridors, the north and south, the Beira, Nacala, the Walvis Bay, Lubumbashi, Ndola and the Western Transport Corridors all give us a very good advantage in terms of transportation. We should take full advantage of that. I am sure that the hon. Minister will give a lot of attention to that, including the importance of our centrality of location in terms of the development of the ICT. 
Through the communication sector, in Zambia, we are the hub of the Southern Region as international traffic passes through Zambia. If we take full advantage of that, we can grow the communication industry to the highest level possible so that Zambia becomes a centre, just like in the aviation industry. Therefore, the hon. Minister has a task that is extremely important for the development of our country. We hope that a lot of attention will be given to this very important ministry to reposition the country in order to develop these key sectors which are catalysts to our economic development.
With these few comments, I beg to support this very important ministry.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you so much for according me this opportunity to support the policy statement for the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. Indeed, I would like to echo the sentiments of Hon. Professor Lungwangwa that this is, indeed, a very important ministry. He has spoken so well regarding the communication and transport sector and, therefore, I would like to comment more on works.
Mr Chairperson, this ministry is very important with regard to infrastructural development. I would like to propose to the hon. Minister that he should consider reviewing the portfolio functions of some of the departments under his ministry. I have in mind the Buildings Department, which is charged with the responsibilities of designing, supervising and monitoring infrastructural projects. 
Mr Chairperson, what happens is that, currently, there are ministries that undertake projects in collaboration with the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. The problem which has been in existence is that we end up with delayed projects because of the bureaucracies and the manner in which these projects are handled.
I have got a suggestion for the hon. Minister that all the activities of infrastructure development be moved to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication so that if, for example, the Ministry of Health wants to build a hospital in a particular location, all it needs to do is present this to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. This way, from the scratch, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, through the Buildings Department, will be able to design this particular hospital, make the estimates and do everything that relates to the building. 
Mr Chairperson, what happens is that the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication will do that, but the money is allocated, for example, to the Ministry of Health. Therefore, when the projects are going on, the technical input and expertise will come from the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication while the funds will be administered at the client ministry. In between, the documentation such as certificates takes so much time and it becomes difficult for the contractors to complete these projects on time.
The Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication has the capacity, through its accounting systems, to handle funds for infrastructure development. All it needs is to build capacity. The ministry already has a system to cater for all the ministries. There are sections dealing with different ministries. Therefore, all it needs is to get all technical staff, probably, which have been attached to other ministries back to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication so that they can go further and decentralise the department. For example, you need to have structures of qualified personnel at provincial and district levels. 
In these provinces and districts, most of the projects are not monitored by qualified personnel. In many cases, professionals will come from Lusaka and go all the way to the provinces to monitor projects. It is very important that this is looked at by our hon. Minister.
Mr Chairperson, on the issue of the Road Development Agency (RDA), I will not comment much. All I can say is that the hon. Minister must ensure that this department is depoliticised. The department has professional engineers who are able to do the job properly. All they need is, probably, to be left to do their work, while their working relationship is harmonised with the National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA), which also handles funds for road projects.
Sir, as regards the Hostels Board, I was happy to hear that the ministry is considering recapitalising it to continue performing its functions. However, since this will be done under a PPP arrangement, it is very important to look at the arguments that will be crafted so that there is the entry point and exit plan. This is because some of the PPPs have caused a lot of problems for the Government just like the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central said. 
Further, I would like also to comment on the Government Printing Department. It is gratifying to note that funds have been allocated to this important department. However, other than just printing ballots, the hon. Minister must know that printing is a very big business. If the Government Printing Department is capitalised and managed properly, it can be another source of revenue for the Government. So, I commend the hon. Minister for allocating funds to this department.
Sir, RTSA is equally important, but this agency should also decentralise its operations. I do not see any reason a person should come from Chinsali to Lusaka just to get a driver’s licence. Therefore, I urge the Government to decentralise the operations of RTSA.
It is also important to note, Mr Chairperson, that the Office Equipment Maintenance Services Department, which is very important under this ministry, has not been funded well over time. Therefore, its functions have been more or less overshadowed. This department discharges very important functions because it handles all office equipment for the Government. Unfortunately, the ministries are not using this department. They buy equipment and put systems in place without anyone monitoring it and that, to some extent, has exposed the Government ministries to letting very important information get to wrong people.  If this department was well-funded and had trained staff, it would have been devising systems for the Government ministries and other departments because the function of this department is to repair all equipment for Government ministries. Therefore, I urge the hon. Minister to review it and consult the people under this department. They are cardinal. The Government should come up with policies that will compel its ministries to start using this important department. Equipment such as computers should not just be bought anyhow from different sources by the various ministries. It is very important that this department is reviewed.
Sir, on the RRU, I really do not know under which department it falls. I do not know whether it falls under the RDA or the Buildings Department. This unit is very important, especially for people in rural constituencies. The presence of this unit should be seen in the districts so that constituents benefit from this important unit.  The first thing which the Government did was to procure equipment for this unit. The next thing was the formation of the unit. However, most of the equipment which was bought is only found at councils. I urge the Government to realign this unit so that it can discharge its functions.
In conclusion, I am very happy to see an allocation for infrastructure development to Muchinga Province. The only unfortunate part is to set structures for the province so that these funds can be utilised in the province. I appeal to the hon. Minister to work hard because there is a lot of work to be done but, like I said earlier, the Buildings Department should quickly be decentralised so that professionals such as engineers can start working on feasibility studies. Once this is done, I think it will be easier to have these moneys flow into the province.
With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Thank you, Mr Chairperson for giving me the Floor. I stand here to support the Budget as proposed by the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.
Mr Chairperson, transport infrastructure serves as a central delivery mechanism in the generation of quality and social development in our country. As I support the policy statement delivered by the hon. Minister with regard to the budget, I would like to also concur with the contributions that have been made by the previous speakers.
Mr Chairperson, under the road sector, I wish to submit that the focus should, indeed, be economic growth with equity. I support the policy pronouncements that were made by the President and the hon. Minister, particularly the roads that the PF Government intends to construct or rehabilitate. Most of the roads that the hon. Minister talked about are, indeed, important to the nation, particularly with regard to economic returns and tourist access roads. However, it is also important that as we talk particularly about the road network, the emphasis should be on trunk roads and those that link provinces or, in some cases, integrate with other countries in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region. 
However, in appreciating the role of transport in poverty reduction, it is important to also note that access to transport and communication can act as tools for poverty reduction, especially in the rural areas where, I keep emphasising, the majority of our people continue to wallow in abject poverty. 
Mr Chairperson, whilst I have no problem with the roads that have been ear-marked for construction, I think that, in future, there is also a need for the ministry to develop a National Transport and Communication Master Plan, which should address the trunk, district, and feeder roads. You will agree with me that, currently, the country is challenged, especially with regard to the transportation of crops, particularly maize, the bulk of which is almost going to waste because of the failure to transport it to safe storage facilities. The reason is that most of the feeder roads are, indeed, in a state of disrepair and, in some cases, bridges have been washed way. 
Mr Chairperson, I look forward to a time when the ministry, probably in the master plan that I talked about, can give an indication of how many trunk roads the country would like to construct over a period of time and how many feeder roads would be constructed in any given district. 
Mr Chairperson, rural transport is, particularly, important because it gives our farmers an opportunity to continue to engage in agriculture as their major economic activity. If adequate funding was provided for feeder roads in the rural areas to be maintained, we can all rest assured of a reduction in the cost of doing business in the rural economy. We can also be assured of our road network’s ability to trigger other economic activities. 
Mr Chairperson, it is said that where there is a good road network, what follows is development. That would be one way of taking the majority of our people out of poverty. If the road network is worked on in the rural areas, I am convinced that our people there will be able to respond by engaging in both on-farm as well as off-farm economic activities. It would also create linkages with other economic and social sectors. 
Mr Chairperson, it is true that most of our people in rural areas face the severe challenge of access to good markets and social amenities. This is due to the lack of proper infrastructure and, particularly, the road network. As we speak, almost every rural district is faced with the big challenge of failure to distribute farming inputs because of the road network being in a state of disrepair. The transporters always charge exorbitant amounts to enable rural people move agricultural equipment, seed and fertiliser because of the distances that they have to cover on very bad roads. 
I hope and trust that, with the PF’s emphasis on putting more money in people’s pockets, it will pay attention to the rural roads network. My brother, Hon. Kampyongo, made reference to the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). I agree with him because I do not really see the role that the unit plays. Year in and year out, this is one unit that is not adequately funded. However, if we want to create a robust rural economy that should be able to attract even the attention of the private sector, then, there is a need to pay attention to the road network in the rural areas.
Sir, in the same way that we have been able to provide meaningful budgets for the trunk roads, I look forward to a time when the ministry, working in consultation with Ministry of Finance and National Planning, would be able to come up with a block sum of money for the construction or rehabilitation of feeder roads in every district so that, over time, our rural people can be able to participate in economic activities.
Mr Chairperson, Hon. Professor Lungwangwa made reference to maritime transport and I support that view because we have areas, such as the Western and Luapula provinces, where our people use water transport. Therefore, I want to encourage the hon. Minister to look at that issue as well. 
Mr Chairperson, the importance of rail transport cannot be over-emphasised. I am aware that, in some areas, particularly those where mining activities take place, we have seen the environmental degradation that is taking place as a result of heavy loads that are being transported using the road network. I have in mind the area between Chingola and Solwezi districts. As a result of the transportation of copper and other minerals from Solwezi using the road network, that area has seriously been degraded and I look forward to seeing a situation where adequate funding is made to rail network infrastructure development. 
Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to state that much of our road network is allowed to degenerate due to the lack of periodic maintenance. There once was a very active programme under the then Ministry of Transport and Communication in which there was regular maintenance of both feeder and trunk roads across the country, but that has slowed down. I hope that the hon. Minister can resuscitate that with adequate funding so that we save some money in the road sector.
Mr Chairperson, for rural roads, I would suggest a labour-based approach to road rehabilitation and construction so that projects in the sector also act as a means of creating employment, particularly for people in the rural areas, given the high levels of unemployment that we are talking about. 
Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I wish to support the hon. Minister’s statement on the proposed budget for his ministry.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on the Vote on the Floor. I support it whole heartedly. In doing so, I would like to make a few comments on the new ministry.
Sir, actually, this is not a new ministry because, forty years ago, the two components of this ministry were one ministry. They were separated in the early 1970’s. However, in the past forty years, these two ministries became giants and we have put them together. What we get is a huge monster, like Frankenstein. This is a very huge fellow who can walk through any building, for example, the Parliament Buildings.
Mr Chairperson, I think we can make use of this ‘monster’ to bring order in this sector. I liken it to a bully in a village. When one yawns, the bully would say, you were laughing at him and he would beat you up.
Laughter
The Chairperson: Order! 
Hon. Mooya, I am not sure whether the people there understand you. You are referring to a bully and monster. Please, debate clearly.
You may continue.
Laughter
Mr Mooya: Mr Chairperson, all I am saying is that the merging of the two ministries is welcome. We can make use of these two ministries that have been merged to bring order in the sector. What is required is for us to support this ministry wholeheartedly, especially in terms of funding.
Sir, the importance of this ministry has already been debated. Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa belaboured the transport part of it. The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, Mr Kampyongo, talked about the portfolio functions into which, like I said, the merging of the two ministries can be used to bring order. All the portfolio functions under it should be taken back.
Mr Chairperson, before the Presidential Speech, we used to hear about the Road Sector Investment Programme (ROADSIP). During the MMD reign, each President talked about it and we knew where we were going in terms road construction. There was ROADSIP I, which took seven, and ROADSIP II, which was supposed to run from 2007 to 2012. We knew where we were going then. However, I am at a loss with this new Government. Where are we?
Mr Mwiimbu: Even me!
Mr Mooya: I would like the hon. Minister to shed more light on ROADSIP II. With all these new projects being undertaken, I am at a loss. We had a roadmap and knew where we were going. 
Mr Chairperson, the ROADSIP was undertaken after the UNIP Government. During the UNIP Government, the roads were in bad shape. So, the MMD Government came up with the ROADSIP in order to rehabilitate and maintain the roads. 
Sir, as regards the issue that was brought by Hon. Mucheleka concerning regular and periodic maintenance, I do not know whether it has been abandoned. We need an explanation because, like I have pointed out, we are at a loss. We cannot abandon the ROADSIP. It is well-intended and we have spent a lot of money; millions of United States dollars. We want to know where we are.
Mr Chairperson, the other point is on the RRU, which has been debated adequately by Hon. Kampyongo and Hon. Mucheleka.  It falls under the Buildings Department, Ministry of Works, Supply and Communications. To me, this is a good idea if only we improve on the management and funding part of it. For example, in the Southern Province, two districts were given one unit to use. This unit consists a front-end loader, compactor or roller, water bowser, tipper and grader. This is all that is needed in road construction, especially if we are to maintain the feeder roads. However, we have to improve on the management and funding part of it. We also need to improve on the attitude towards work by the operators.
Mr Chairperson, during my time, operators used to work on 8 km of road in a day. However, to my surprise, the operators under the RRU only work on about one or one and half kilometres per day. I watch them. This is really a good idea, but we need to be serious and supervise these people. I think the present arrangement of giving five units per two districts, is adequate.
Mr Chairperson, concerning Zambian contractors, I was pleased to hear, on Radio Phoenix, today, 13th December, 2011, at 1300 hours, the Director of the National Council for Construction (NCC) saying that the construction industry has been growing, each year, at about 17 per cent. That is good. More than ten years ago, when we started, we did not know that we would reach that growth. What is required, now, is to support the NCC and contractors, especially the Zambian ones, in terms of loan facilities. We have all the contractors and the capacity that we need. There are more than 1,600 contractors in Zambia registered with the NCC. We only need to support them financially.
Sir, we should pay contractors promptly and reduce import duty on construction equipment and parts. This is important for Zambian contractors, especially those in Grades 4, 5 and 6, so that they can buy equipment. For those that cannot buy the equipment, we could come up with a scheme for hiring. The Government can buy a lot of equipment and hire it out to contractors.
Mr Chairperson, my second last item is about the Meteorological Department. Since, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa has already pointed out the importance of this department, I will not waste a lot of time talking about it. It is a very important department. It is not only important to farmers, but also to other professions such as engineering. Engineers do rely on this department as a source of information which is important for their work. To design structures such as high rise buildings and roofs, engineers rely on information from the meteorologists regarding the wind speed. 
Mr Chairperson, last week, we had a seminar at which the Director for the Meteorological Department said that, normally, we were supposed to have a meteorological station servicing a radius of 25 km. After doing my calculations, I discovered that Zambia, which is about 870,000 square kilometres, needs about 440 stations. At the moment, we only have a tenth of what we require, which is about forty-one stations. Therefore, I think there is a need to pump in a lot of money in that regard.
Sir, finally, I would like to say that I am very saddened by the way we handle the issue of constructing houses for our former Presidents. The First Republican President just moved to the building that was put up for him about two to three years ago. For seventeen years, he was denied that opportunity. Now, we have a backlog.  Looking at this Yellow Book, I see that we still have to build houses for the second Republican President, the third Republican President and the fourth Republican President. These are not complicated buildings which can take a maximum of eight months each. Why should it take the duration it has been taking? These people have done a lot for us for this country. Therefore, I am requesting the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to allocate a lot of money in the 2013 Budget to enable us finish the remaining three houses in one year. We can do it because each building can take a maximum of eight months.
I thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson: We need to hear a lady’s voice.
Laughter
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to add my voice to the debate on the Floor of this House. In doing so, I want to support the Vote for this very important ministry, the Ministry of Works, Transport, Communications …
Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: I do not know the other functions …
Interruptions
Mrs Masebo: Sir, I would like to support the Vote for the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. I will be very brief because I see that there are many hon. Members who want to participate in the debate. I have three issues that I want to raise. I want the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and the hon. Minister of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection to be very attentive.
Sir, there will be urgent need for the new Government to look at the country’s Transport Policy. I think that, clearly, there is a need for it to be revised. The problems that we encounter as we construct and maintain our roads will continue for as long as we continue to do things the way we have been doing them. Our policy on who is responsible for city, feeder and main roads is not very clear. I think that the PF Government has made it clear that it is going to implement the Decentralisation Policy.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Sir, I think that it is important for the two hon. Ministers to sit and quickly come up with solutions. Let us allow the local authorities, which are the councils, to do as they used to before which is to maintain the roads within their districts. For example, works on feeder roads in a rural district like Chongwe should be done by a local authority. The Road Development Agency (RDA) should continue dealing with the main trunk roads because you cannot expect it to know what is happening in the remotest part of a district or a city. Our current way of doing things is what has the caused the current crisis we are in. Hon. Minister, you will recall that I kept bringing this issue to the attention of my colleagues, three years ago, and they are now on the left side. I told them, on the Floor of this House, that the issue of roads, if not handled properly, would make them lose elections. I am sure you all remember the arrogance they showed at that time.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Chairperson: Order! Address the Chair. Say, “He recalls.”
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, you will recall,…
The Chairperson: It is not me. It is the hon. Minister. Say, “He recalls.”
Laughter
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I am still new. I thank you for your guidance.
Laughter
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, under the previous regime, I kept saying that there was a need for the local authorities to be given powers and matching resources which would enable them perform their functions. In the past, issues regarding roads within a district were handled by local authorities. Members of the community could go to a councillor to report that there was a pothole somewhere. The councillor would, in turn, report the matter to the council which would then fix that road the next day. These days, you need transport money to move from Shang’ombo to get to the RDA to tell it that there is a pothole on a particular road. This is because when you go to the council, you will be told that it is no longer responsible for the maintenance of roads in its vicinity. I know that the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Mr Mukanga and the Minister of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection, Professor Luo, can help us to do the right thing. I have no doubt about their capabilities. That is why I can proudly stand and urge both of them to sort the problems associated with the maintaining of roads within districts so that our councils can begin to function again. 
Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about decentralisation in relation to the work of RTSA. RTSA has been doing very well. I am aware, from past information, that RTSA has been collecting a lot of resources for our Treasury. As other hon. Members have said, there is a need to decentralise the functions of RTSA. In doing so, I am against the idea of it creating its own offices in the districts. It will not make any sense for RTSA to come to Chongwe to create an office. This will just be a wastage of resources. You already have Government offices at the local level. Just let the councils carry out the functions of RTSA. I know that this can be done immediately. The establishing of RTSA offices in various locations will take ages. So, please, the hon. Minister responsible, you understand these issues very clearly … 
The Chairperson: Aah! You also. 
Laughter
The Chairperson: You should say, “He understands.” You are addressing the Chair.
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I am sure the hon. Minister understands these issues very well. I am merely reminding him about them.  
Sir, let me now talk about private-public-partnership (PPP) policy. This is a good policy. Obviously, the PPP simply means that you are trying to mobilise resources from the private sector to put up infrastructure because the Government alone cannot manage to do everything. I want the hon. Minister to understand that the initiative should not be a substitute for the Government’s functions. Clearly, some people were getting drunk with the issue of the PPPs. To them, everything became about PPPs. They even wanted the Leopards Hill Road to be under the PPP initiative. 
Under the PPP initiative, people have to pay for the service being offered. You cannot expect villagers from Lukoshi and Lwimba wards, who bring vegetables to the market every morning, to pay as they drive along a road from their area. I just want to urge the PF Government to be cautious as it supports the PPPs. I know that supporting PPPs is now an international practice. All countries use PPPs. My only area of concern is the implementation.  
Mr Chairperson, we had five one-stop-border posts which have all been given to one foreign country to run. To me, this is a very strategic arrangement. I would like the hon. Minister to tell this House, as he winds up, whether, in that deal, there is any Zambian shareholder, and if not, whether it is in order. To my recollection the Public Private Partnership Act states that there should always be a Zambian participating in some of these contracts. However, I am not sure whether this is the case. I would like the hon. Minister to provide me information regarding this issue.     
I also want to say to the hon. Minister that we should be very careful with these PPPs because they can bring governments down. From my little experience, I recall that, in one country, there was a PPP in the water sector. This company quite alright improved its water supply, but the charges were very high and there was no cushion for the poor. The poor rose against that government and it could not do anything because it had already entered into a contract of fifty years. 
There was also a similar case involving the Lusaka City Council (LCC). The LCC entered into a contract in which it leased out a market stall for twenty years. This is beyond the powers that it has. The people were up in arms. It was so difficult for the Government of the day to make changes because there were legal implications. 
Mr Chairperson, yes, PPPs are important because they provide another way of raising resources. However, let us not make it the beginning and the end in itself. I think that, as Zambians, we must own certain things. You will clearly notice that most of the infrastructure under the PPPs in Zambia, today, is owned by foreigners. When are we going to start owning things as Zambians? 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, looking around this county, everyone with money is a foreigner. For the Zambians, the only money they have is a salary. This is why everyone now is just running to become an hon. Member of Parliament to the extent of almost killing each other. 
Laughter

 {mospagebreak}

Mrs Masebo:  Mr Chairperson, during your time in the United National Independence Party (UNIP) days, and even in the good days of the MMD, the Leopards Hill Road always had a provision in the Budget. In the last three years, however, there has been no allocation for this road. The road was being graded by the Irwins of Zambeef and some of the farmers around that area.  I am happy to see that, in this year’s Yellow Book, this road has a provision. 
Mr Chairperson, I kept on asking for help from my colleagues from the previous regime, but to no avail. They thought that they were fixing me, but ended up fixing themselves. 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: Like someone guided us, we must not try to do things only in constituencies that belong to us. We must work for everybody. This is the only way we will get more support so that even those who did not vote for us can know that they made a mistake, especially that they were told that it is not possible for Sir Michael Chilufya Sata to become President.  
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: I just wish to thank the hon. Minister because I can see that there is a lot of money that has been provided for the Leopards Hill Road, which will go to Chalimbana and enter the Great East Road. It will also go to Chiawa Bridge on the other side. This road is of economic importance and once it is tarred, I can tell you that people from Lusaka will start moving to the eastern part of Chongwe because that is the backbone of the agricultural sector of Chongwe Constituency. 
When you hear people talking about agriculture in Chongwe District, they are not talking about that which is in Rufunsa Constituency, but in Chongwe Constituency because 98 per cent of the produce is from there. In Rufunsa, there is good game and not agricultural activities. 
Mr Chairperson, I just want to thank the Head of State for the good promise he gave us. I am glad that an allocation to make it possible for the promise to be fulfilled has been reflected in the Yellow Book. Now, you can see why I am so happy that there was a change of Government. 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: I am very happy, Sir, and so are the people of Chongwe because our road will be tarred. 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Masebo: My last point is on the E-governance Programme, which started five years ago. I would like the hon. Minister to give us information on how far we have gone with this programme. I know that there was an attempt to link ministries. We were told, for instance, that a patient in Lundazi did not have to come to Lusaka …
The Chairperson: Order you!
Why are you mentioning Lundazi? 
Laughter    
Mrs Masebo: Sir, it is the furthest from the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). 
We were told that Dr Lambert did not have to go to Lundazi to do an operation. We were told he could actually do it just at the UTH or at his home using some internet arrangement. I just want to find out what progress we have made because, really, if this country is to move forward, this is the way forward. 
Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to wind up. 
Firstly, I would like to thank the hon. Members who debated on this important Vote. I would like to thank Hon. Garry Nkombo, Hon. Professor Lungwangwa, Hon. Kampyongo, Hon. Mucheleka, my fellow engineer, Hon. Mooya and my sister, Hon. Masebo. I know that many hon. Members would have debated in support of the allocation to this important ministry because they know how important it is. 
Mr Chairperson, the Government has a plan of ensuring that there is development which is equitably distributed to everybody throughout the country, bearing in mind the point that the PF Government came on the mandate that it is a Government of the people by the people.
 Having said this, I would also like to state that our President is a very democratic leader. He does not bulldoze people into doing what he wants. He follows the laid out plans so that, at least, things are done professionally. We will try to stick to that so that we are more professional as we continue to be in the Government. I know that, as a new Government, we can have teething problems. However, I wish to assure you that we are getting there because we are doing everything possible to ensure that results are seen in the nearest possible time. 
Mr Chairperson, there were issues raised regarding plans to review the number of players in the mobile phone sector. Our ministry will study this matter so that we may see how best to go about this.  
Mr Chairperson, as regards the railway concession, the Government and the ministry is trying to study it so as to see how best it can sort out the problems affecting the railway line. We are engaging all stakeholders to ensure that we come up with lasting solutions. I believe that, if we do things haphazardly, we might create more problems. Therefore, we want to ensure that the challenges being faced in this industry are resolved amicably. 
Mr Chairperson, there was an issue that was raised in as far as other ministries carrying their own infrastructure development. What we have found on the ground is that there are a lot of ministries like the Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training which have their own designers and architects. I know that the Ministry of Health has also undertaken the design aspect. What we need to do, however, is to ensure that such departments are co-ordinated and brought under the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication so that whatever they do for now can be approved by us. In future, we can try to think of a way to bring them under our ministry because we are the right people to monitor and control whoever is designing public infrastructure. We are the right portfolio to carry out such ventures so that our friends may also continue to carry out things they know best.  
Mr Chairperson, untill now, office equipment has been ignored by most of the ministries. However, the PF Government would want to ensure that whatever department is under it is utilised to the fullest so that it can give the best to its people and not waste resources. For example, we have decided that all Government materials should be printed at the Government Printers.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: I am sure the initial purpose for having such a facility in the Government was to reduce on costs.
Sir, I would have gone on to mention a lot of things, but I just want to comment on what Hon. Masebo said on the PPP. This Government will go the PPP way, but will tread on that path cautiously. I believe that the PPPs can also be a source of financial drain if they are not done very well.
The Government will not neglect its responsibility in executing projects and also running this country. It will try by all means to do what it can to ensure that no one or no company takes away part of its responsibility. The Government will not just delegate functions, but it will also still take responsibility. We, as a Government, will look at the concessions that have been signed, in the past, and also ensure that we give the very best to the Zambians.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: We are not going to allow a situation where, for example, somebody works on an airport under the PPP. We are going to look at issues and ensure that some of those projects which were earmarked for the PPPs are reviewed. Only those which are progressive will have to go that route and we will make sure that we scrutinise the terms and obligations prevailing. So, the people of Zambia should continue to trust us. 
Sir, as regards E-governance, it is the way to go. This is because it will enable each and every person access data. When it is fully implemented, we will have a situation where you do not need to conduct a census because it will be easy for the system to determine how many people are in Zambia. When the E-governance data bank is complete, for example, if you go to the Ministry of Health, they do not need to start asking for your name, where you were born and so on and so forth, as every data will be captured. So, in as far as technology is concerned, this is the way to go. The world is changing. We need new technology and Zambia should not be left behind. We will do everything possible to implement such projects which will benefit everybody in this country. 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: The young generation will appreciate access to information and that they have a Government which will be able to give them positive results in the shortest possible time. 
Sir, I would have taken a lot of time to explain issues of ROADSIP, but as I said, we will review all the roads on which some investment was made, but were left undone. Then, we will only continue working on them if it is determined that they are economically viable so that, at least, we may not just waste money, but let the roads give the benefits to the people living in that locality.
Mr Chairperson, as regards the RRU equipment, currently, the equipment is not well monitored. I know that the operators operate this equipment at their own pace, but we are here to bring in effectiveness and efficiency. We will try to monitor them and those operators who just reported on site at any time they wanted to do their job, I think, this is a thing of the past. This Government desires to see results.
Therefore, the onus is upon each and every hon. Member of Parliament to report if they see equipment taken to their area and it is not being used correctly. You have the power to bring that information to our ministry and even stop that equipment from operating and ensure that there is no wastage of resources. In fact, if you just look at it and then you say, “I will go and report to the ministry” I think that is not good enough. It is important that we work collectively to achieve these results.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I want to thank those hon. Members who have, in the past, done what I have just said. It is important that this time we are giving them power, through our ministry, to ensure that they help us to stop this disorder in the system.
Sir, with regards to monitoring of water transport, we all know that this sector has not performed well. We know about the Bangweulu and Mweru Wantipa water transport facilities not having performed very well. However, this time around, we will start monitoring them by ensuring that we visit them, so often, and know what their problems are and try to resolve them.
Mr Chairperson, with these few comments, I would like to thank everybody for the support that they have rendered to our ministry’s Vote and it is my prayer and hope that, as we go through the figures, we will be able to explain a few things as matters arise.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
VOTE 51/01 – (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – Headquarters – K138,107,492,953).
Mr Moonde: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 01, Programme 1005, Activity 002 – National Council for Construction – K 3,029,900,000. This figure is constant, and yet I thought this department should be helped financially to do inspections considering that its work is a mammoth task. Could we have clarification on why the provision is constant?
Sir, may I also have clarification under the same Programme 1005, Activity 033 – Road Transport and Safety Agency – K37,261,853,299. You will note that there is a very minor increment on its budget for 2012. I feel that, with the statistics given, the biggest killer of our people in the country are road accidents, I thought that …
The Chairperson: What is your question?
Mr Monde: Why is there a minor increment to RTSA and why is there no increment to the National Council for Construction (NCC)?
The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwenya): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 1005, Activity 002 – National Council for Construction, the provision is required to supplement the NCC for construction operations in building capacity of local contractors, industry regulation, monitoring, administrative operations and construction of schools. For now, the amount is adequate due to budgetary constraints.
I thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson: You have answered the first question what about the second one?
Hon. Member: RTSA!
The Chairperson: Activity 033 ─ Road Transport and Safety Agency.
The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali):  Mr Chairperson, although the hon. Member of Parliament regrets that …
The Chairperson: Order!
Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.
[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]
Dr Mwali: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was just beginning to say that the increase on Programme 1005, Activity 033 – Road Transport and Safety Agency – K37,261,853,299 is actually K2.6 billion. This activity allows for what we considered to be the critical issues that need to be addressed, in 2012, and like any other item, of course, there are constraints. However, we are quite comfortable with this increase.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
Mr Mwiimbu switched on his microphone to speak.
The Chairperson: The man behind you is standing to ask a question on the same Vote.
Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 705, Programme 1012, Activity 149 – Rehabilitation and upgrading of Mulobezi Railway Line. I do not know whether my assumption would be correct if I said the rehabilitation of this railway line has been completed.
The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, I think that question is being asked in view of the fact that there is no provision for next year.
Mr Lufuma: That is correct, Sir. There is no provision for next year. 
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, indeed, there is no provision for this activity, but this has been catered for under Unit 01, Programme 1005 – Grants to Institutions – Operational.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like an explanation on Unit 01, Programme 1005, Activity 025 – Mulobezi Rail Line – K360,000,000. We have regularly been informed, on the Floor of this House, that this particular railway line is dilapidated. I have noted that, next year, we are providing K360 million, which is the same as it was this year. In certain portions of this railway line, we are told that it is the passengers who actually lift the coaches instead of riding them because there is no railway line.
Laughter 
The Chairperson: Mr Mwiimbu, what is the question?
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, how come the Government is not providing adequate resources to ensure that this railway line is rehabilitated?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I think there was no adequate utilisation of the funds that were provided this year. That is why we had to put that amount of money so that we may do some rehabilitation next year.
I thank you.
Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Chairperson, I would like clarification on page 703, Programme 1008, Activity 068 – Anti-Corruption – K15,000,000. This year, there is K50 million, but for 2012 it has been reduced to only K15 million. Why has this been done?
Mr Miyanda left his microphone on.
The Chairperson: Switch-off your microphone.
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, this Programme has seen a reduction because most of the work under this activity will be done under administration.
I thank you.
Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I have clarification on two questions on this Vote. The first one is on Unit 01, Programme 1005, Activity 060 – Zambia Railways (Operationalisation of Chipata/Mchinji Railway Line) – K800,000,000. There has been a reduction in the amount from K1 billion to K800 million. Subsequently, I also seek clarification on page 705, Programme 1012, Activity 144 – Pre Feasibility Study of Chipata, Petauke, Serenje on TAZARA Railway Line – K152,469,282. We were hoping that there would be this feasibility study, but then again the amount has been drastically reduced, maybe, because it has already been done. Why is this the case?
Mr Mtolo left his microphone on.
The Chairperson: Turn off your microphone.
Dr Mwali: Mr Chairperson, the reduction in Programme 1005, Activity 060 – Zambia Railways (Operationalisation of Chipata/Mchinji Railway Line – K800,000,000 is essentially due to reduced activities pending the acquisition of the rolling stock.
I thank you, Mr Chairperson.
The Chairperson: What about the other one? I thought there were two queries.
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1012, Activity 144 – Pre Feasibility Study of Chipata, Petauke, Serenje on TAZARA Railway Line – K152,469,282 will be used as counterpart funds as the actual study is being undertaken by China Civil Engineering Construction Company (CCECC) Limited as per the signed memorandum of understanding. The allocation for next year has been reduced because most of the works have already been accomplished.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1180, Activity 001 – Trade Facilitation and Spatial Development Initiative – K100,000,000. I want to know from the hon. Minister what this spatial development initiative is and why it has such a big reduction in the allocation of the funds for next year.
Mr Chishiba left his microphone on.
The Chairperson: Switch off your microphone, please.
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1180, Activity 001 – Trade Facilitation and Spatial Development Initiative – K100,000,000 will cater for trade facilitation and spatial development initiatives. The reduction in the provision is due to reduced activities.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 702, Programme 1005, Activity 025 – Mulobezi Rail Line – K360,000,000. May I know from the hon. Minister where the funds for infrastructure development of the Mulobezi Rail Line are. This allocation is for operational cost of running that railway line. What about the infrastructure development of Mulobezi Rail Line?
The Chairperson: The Question is understood.
Laughter 
Interruptions 
The Chairperson: I thought that was actually answered. Yes, it was raised by one hon. Member and the answer was given.
Mr Taundi (Mangango): Mr Chairperson, on Page 705, Programme 1120, Activity 100 – Development and Monitoring Mechanism – K106,175,000, in this year’s Budget it was K650,000,000 but, in next year’s Budget, it has been reduced to K106,175,000. Why is there this reduction?
The Chairperson: Really, I think that if we are going to dwell on why there are reductions …
Mr Lubinda: Yes.
The Chairperson: … when generally we know that it is either much of that work has been done and requires little to be done and so on and so forth, we are delaying our progress. All the same, can the hon. Minister answer that question.
Dr Mwali: Mr Chairperson, actually, we had even answered that question. Basically it is due to limited resources.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, as regards  Unit 06, Programme 1005, Activity 015 – Grants to Institutions – K1,200,000,000, we have grants to institutions appearing again under Unit 01, Programme 1005 ─ Grants to Institutions ─ Operational. My question, therefore, is whether the institutions under the two Programmes are the same, and if so, why should we have two budget lines if they are the same?
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1005, Activity 015 – Grants to Institutions – K1,200,000,000, this provision is required to cater for the operations of the Monitoring and Evaluation Unit. This has been provided for the first time in the 2012 Budget and it has been realigned to this programme.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 51/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 51/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 51/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 51/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 51/05 – (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications – Communication Department – K9,033,144,882).
Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, under Programme 1092, Activity 058 – Rural ICTs . I see that there is no provision in next year’s Budget. What is the reason since people of Vubwi also want these ICTs.
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, this provision has not been budgeted for in the 2012 Budget.
I thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson: The question is why have you not made any provision?
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, it has been aligned to another programme.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 51/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 51/07 – (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – Buildings Department – K65,813,253,699).
Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 1007, Activity 005 – Outstanding Bills – K3,008,326,538 and Activity 006 – Payment of Arrears – K1,110,000,000, may I know the difference between the two activities.
The Chairperson: Hon. Namulambe, can you repeat the question.
Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 1007, Activity 005 – Outstanding Bills – K3,008,326,538 and Activity 006 – Payment of Arrears – K1,110,000,000, may I know the difference between the two activities.
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, this provision is required to settle outstanding bills in the department. The increase is as a result of the complete omission of other emoluments, in the 2011 Budget, which resulted in increased bills and arrears. For Activity 006 – Payment of Arrears – K1,110,000,000, this provision is required to settle outstanding bills owed to suppliers of goods and services by the department over the years. The department was generally underfunded, in 2011, resulting in most of the suppliers of goods not being paid, hence the increase.
The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, the question is what is the difference between the two? You are not answering the question.
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, one activity is for goods and the other one is for services.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 51/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 51/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 51/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 51/10 – Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – Planning and Monitoring – K5,892,491,169).
Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, on page 741, Programme 1011, Activity 024 –Network Administration – K108,000,000, it appears that this is a new activity, what is involved in this network administration?
Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, the provision is required to procure computers and other peripherals and also to enable officers attend conferences, seminars and workshops.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 51/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 77 – (Ministry of Defence – Headquarters – K1,792,998,697,647).
The Minister of Justice (Mr S. S. Zulu) (on behalf of the Minister of Defence (Mr Mwamba)): Mr Chairperson, it is my honour and privilege to stand before this august House to present the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Ministry of Defence for the period 1st January to 31st December, 2012.
The Mission Statement of the Ministry of Defence is to preserve, protect and defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity …
Interruptions
The Chairperson: Order!
The three hon. Deputy Ministers behind the debater, I think, I will ask you to move from there, for now, and go and sit elsewhere because you have been disturbing the debate for a long time.
Hon. Opposition Members: Send them out!
The Chairperson: No, I will not send them out.
Can you move on to some seat anywhere on your right, the three of you, the hon. Deputy Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula), the hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwenya) and the hon. Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Dr E. Lungu). You go and sit elsewhere on the right side. You are making a lot of noise.
The three hon. Deputy Ministers left the Assembly Chamber.
The Chairperson: Do not go out. You sit there.
Laughter
Mr S. S. Zulu: … of the Republic of Zambia in order to maintain peace and security for all citizens and residents.
Sir, the Ministry of Defence has an approved Budget of K1,502,281,723,968 in the year ending 31st December, 2011. In line with our mandate, I wish to report to this august House that, under the 2011 Budget, the following achievements have been made:
(i)    continued with the acquisition and upgrading of equipment;

(ii)    maintained continuous training and skills upgrading of personnel;

(iii)    recorded some successes in infrastructure development;

(iv)    conducted operations in all border areas;

(v)    conducted internal joint operations with other security wings;

(vi)    continued promotion of defence and security co-operation with neighbouring countries through joint permanent commissions;

(vii)    conducted air surveillance;

(viii)    contributed to food security enhancement;

(ix)    carried out various civil and engineering works whenever the defence services were called upon;

(x)    contributed to training of youths in skills such as shoe-making, catering, bricklaying, plumbing and others; and

(xi)    continued participating in peace-keeping operations under the auspices of the United Nations, African Union and Southern African Development Community (SADC).

Mr Chairperson, let me give you an overview of the 2012 Budget for my ministry. The Ministry of Defence Budget Estimates for the year 1st January to 31st December, 2012, is K1,792,998,697,647, representing an increase of 20 per cent over the approved Budget for 2011.
Mr Chairperson, like in the previous Budgets, the allocation to this ministry appears to be quite huge. As the popular saying goes, “The devil is in the detail.” Thus, when you look at the breakdown of this budget, you will note that it is not adequate to cover the operational needs of the ministry in line with its mandate.
Mr Chairperson, out of the budget estimate of K1,792,998,697,647 for 2012, 73 per cent will go towards personal emoluments while only 27 per cent will be spent on recurrent departmental charges. 
The following areas, among others, need substantial amounts of funds: 

(i)    infrastructure rehabilitation and development;

(ii)    acquisition of new and advanced equipment as well as rehabilitation of old equipment; and

(iii)    recruitment and training of personnel.

Thus, the ministry has a big challenge to cover these critical needs with a paltry 27 per cent of the Budget Estimate.
Mr Chairperson, as hon. Members are debating my ministry’s budget, they need to bear this scenario of inadequate funding in mind. Having given an overview of the funding to my ministry, I now highlight the salient features for the 2012 Ministry of Defence Budget.
As mentioned before, a large chunk of 73 per cent of the Budget is committed to personal emoluments. It has gone up from the 2011 provision owing to the 10 per cent salary increment awarded to all Public Service personnel in April, 2011 and incorporates the planned recruitment by the three defence forces in 2012.
Mr Chairperson, with regard to infrastructure development, in 2009, we embarked on construction of 222 housing units at three cantonments for the Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force (ZAF) and Zambia National Service (ZNS) in Lusaka. The construction of these houses should have been completed by December, 2010. However, owing to erratic funding, the project stalled. As a result, in our Budget Estimates for 2012, we have provided K31.4 billion for infrastructure development. Part of this provision will go to completion of the houses whose construction has stalled. It is worth mentioning here that the construction of the other 4,336 housing units which is being undertaken by a Chinese company in five cantonments in Lusaka, Kabwe and Mufulira is not funded from our budget. These houses are being constructed under a separate financing facility that is managed by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Construction of houses under this project is expected to be completed within twelve-four months.
Mr Chairperson, on recruitment, the defence forces have, over the years, experienced a drop in personnel strength due to retirements and natural wastage. In our Budget Estimates for 2012, we have, therefore, provided for recruitment of personnel.
Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about food security. This Government is determined to ensure that there is food security in the nation. The ministry, through the Zambia National Service Land Development Branch, will contribute towards this effort through the construction and rehabilitation of feeder roads, bridges, dams and other infrastructure that support agriculture. In addition, the operations of the ZNS Production units are being refocused in order to get more and better returns from this venture.
Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, the ministry shall, within the available resources, continue to fulfill its mandate of defending the country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity effectively and efficiently and contribute to the empowerment of unemployed youths by building capacity through skills training. I, therefore, call upon the hon. Members of this august House to support my ministry’s Budget Estimates for 2012 as presented.
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
The Chairperson: Hon. Members, this is a very straightforward policy statement.
Can the two hon. Ministers, please, come back to their seats. 
Mr Mwenya went back to his seat.
The Chairperson: Will the hon. Acting Leader of Government of Business in the House and Minister of Justice wind up debate.
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Members for their support for the Ministry of Defence budget. I am most grateful.
I thank you, Sir.
VOTE 77/01 – (Ministry of Defence – Headquarters – K127,063,140,035).
Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 051 – Construction and Procurement of Housing Units – K119, 502,125. I notice that there are two new activities. How many housing units can be built from this small amount?
The Deputy Minister of Defence (Colonel Kaunda): Mr Chairperson, can I be assisted with the page number again.
The Chairperson: Could you, please, repeat the page number, hon. Member.
Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 749, on Programme 4012, Activity 051 – Construction and Procurement of Housing Units – K119, 502,125. I notice that there are two new activities. How many housing units can be built from this small amount?
Colonel Kaunda: Mr Chairperson, we are working within our budget limitation.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member for Mpongwe wanted to know how many units can be constructed from K119,502,125 million and not dollars or rands.
The Chairperson: I have understood the question and the answer was that the ministry will work within its budget limitation. It will build either two, three or four houses.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4003, Activity 011 – Long Term Training (6 months and above) – K536,042,659, I like that definition. Coming down to Activity 026 – Short Term/Long Term Training – K383, 380,000, my interpretation of this is that it will be either short-term or long-term training. Therefore, why should long-term training be captured in Activity 011 and Activity 026?
Colonel Kaunda: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 4003, Activity 011 – Long Term Training (6 months above) – K536,042,659 and Activity 026 – Short Term/Long Term Training – K383,380,000, the explanation is that all courses that are six months and above are long-term training. Those that are for six months and below are categorised as short-term training.
I thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson: Order! 
There are two long-term trainings under the same programme. What does that mean? Under Programme 4003, there is Activity 011 ─ Long Term (6 months and above) – K536,042,659. According to the hon. Deputy Minister’s answer, it is anything above six months. Now, the same appears in Activity 026 ─ Short Term/Long Term Training – K383,380,000. Why do you have two long-term training?
Colonel Kaunda: Sir, I said that the provision for short, medium term training of personnel increased due to a high number of outstanding arrears. On Programme 4003, Activity 011 – Long Term Training (6 months above) – K536,042,659 and Activity 026 – Short Term/Long Term Training – K383,380,000, I have to come back to the House and explain why there are two expenditures on these terms.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,147,503,948 and Activity 006 – Support to Minister’s Office – K300,000,000. Are these not the same budget lines? Is Minister’s Office not supposed to be under Office Administration?
Colonel Kaunda: Which programme does she seek clarification on, Mr Chairperson? 
The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, when questions are being asked, you must pay attention. Please, repeat the question, hon. Member for Namwala. 
Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,147,503,948 and Activity 006 – Support to Minister’s Office – K300,000,000. Are these not the same budget lines? Is Minister’s Office not supposed to be under Office Administration?
Colonel Kaunda: Mr Chairperson, Page 743, Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,147,503,948 caters for logistical support and includes office maintenance, entertainment, and purchase of uniforms for classified daily employees. The increase is due to realignment. Activity 006 – Support to Minister’s Office K300,000,000 caters for the cost of meeting daily costs for his office. It is a new activity to cater for costs of the hon. Minister’s office.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Livune: I thank you, Deputy Speaker.
The Chairperson: I am the Chairperson.
Laughter
Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Pages 749 and 751. There is a replication of activities.
The Chairperson: What programme?
Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4006 – Contributions and Subscriptions to Organisations – K63,000,000, Programme 4007 – Dismantling of Arrears – K163,966,929, I am basically stating a principle here. There are a number of replicated activities on Pages 749 and 751. Can the hon. Minister explain why this is so? Is it a way of hiding resources?
The Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Defence, you may answer if you understand the question.
Laughter
Colonel Kaunda: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4006 – Contributions and Subscriptions to Organisations – K63,000,000, Programme 4007 – Dismantling of Arrears – K163,966,929 are all new activities that were not there last year. They are all different.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4026 – Health Management …
The Chairperson: We are still on Vote 77/01. You have gone to a different Vote.
Vote 77/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 77/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 77/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 
VOTE 77/04 – (Ministry of Defence – Zambia National Service K303,415,403,626).
Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Page 761, Programme 4031, Activity 006 – Officers’ Accommodation. I have seen that this is an important Vote, but it has no provision this year. May I know why.
Colonel Kaunda: Mr Chairperson, Officers’ Accommodation activity is under Programme 4085.
I thank you, Sir.
Vote 77/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
VOTE 77/05 ─ (Ministry of Defence – Defence Medical Services ─ K6, 646,354,267).
Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4026, Activity 001 – Health Administration, Activity 004 – Procurement of Medical Drugs, Activity 005 – Specialised Treatment (Abroad). They were budgeted for this year, but not next year.
Colonel Kaunda: Mr Chairperson, the activities were completed last year.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions 
Vote 77/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 77/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 77/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
Vote 77/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
The Chairperson: We now move on to Head 20 and 29 for technical reasons which will you know about later. We will not deal with Head 21 and 37 for now. We will move on to the combined policy debate on Heads 20 and 29.
VOTES 20 and 29 (Loans and Investments ─ Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection- Physical Planning and Housing Department ─ K337,562,525,000 and Ministry of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection-Human Resource and Administration –K458,266,174,873).
The Minister of Local Government, Housing, Early Childhood and Environmental Protection (Professor Luo): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for according me the opportunity to present a policy statement in support of the 2012 Budget Estimates of the Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection.
Mr Chairperson, let me start by acknowledging the work of my predecessors who did their best to bring the work of local government and housing to the level it is. In particular, I would like to recognise Hon. Dr Chituwo, Hon. Dr Kazonga, the late Tetamashimba, may his soul rest in peace, and my sister Hon. Silvia Masebo, who stood out in her work and boldness to move local government forward.
Mr Chairperson, in order to appreciate the budget estimates for my ministry, it is important that the hon. Members are refreshed on the mandate of my ministry. It is to promote a decentralised and democratic local governance system and facilitate the provision of an efficient and effective delivery of quality housing, infrastructure, social services and early education by local authorities while ensuring that there is environmental protection for long-term sustainable development.
Mr Chairperson, to achieve this mandate, my ministry has put together programmes with a total budget amounting to K795 billion. My ministry has two Heads.  Head 20 has a budget estimate of K337 billion while Head 29 has a budget estimate of K458 billion. Out of the K795 billion, personal emoluments related to expenditure of accounts will account for K9 billion while non-personal emoluments will account for K786 billion. I will start by presenting Head 20. 
Sir, under Head 20, my ministry will, in 2012, endeavour to accelerate the implementation of on-going programmes and projects, add value to the principles of good local governance and infrastructure development and offer quality leadership to local authorities.
Mr Chairperson, allow me to present my policy statement by sectors. I will begin with physical planning as the priority focus area under Head 20. I will present Head 29 separately.
Sir, K1.6 billion has been set aside, in 2012, towards physical planning to facilitate the preparation of integrated development plans (IDPs) in local authorities so as to ensure orderly and co-ordinated development.
Mr Chairperson, the preparation of the IDPs will involve writing of inception reports, status quo reports and spatial development frameworks. In this regard, spatial planning legislation will be revised, accompanied by the preparation of urban and regional planning regulations.
Sir, concerning Infrastructure Development, in 2012, the focus of my ministry will be as below indicated.
Sir, K132 billion has been provided for the repair and rehabilitation of roads, footpaths and footbridges, and the improvement of feeder roads in rural areas. This amount includes K60 billion allocated for preparatory works for the Lusaka Ring Roads aimed at decongesting traffic in Lusaka City.

{mospagebreak} 

Mr Chairperson, as regards water infrastructure development, my ministry will focus on the construction of water points, such as boreholes, and rehabilitation of existing water supply and sanitation facilities in the urban and rural areas. This will result in improved access to clean and safe drinking water and proper sanitation both in the rural and urban areas, and will have an impact on the health of our people because it will reduce the disease burden tremendously, especially diseases like diarrhoea, cholera and dysentery. A budget of K146 billion has been provided for this purpose in 2012.
Sir, the ministry shall continue with the construction of modern retail markets in both urban and rural areas in order to promote productivity. The local authorities also require support in the provision of municipal solid waste management services as a matter of priority. Therefore, K1.9 billion has been provided in the 2012 Budget for this purpose.
Mr Chairperson, I would like to inform this august House that there have been low quality municipal services in this country, and this is common knowledge. Therefore, my ministry intends to improve the provision of municipal services, such as water supply and sanitation, solid waste, roads and street lighting, and construction of drainages.
Sir, my ministry will embark on a programme of upgrading unplanned settlements and urban renewal to facilitate and improve the living environment of urban settlers. Seventeen billion two hundred million has been allocated to this activity in the 2012 Budget.
Mr Chairperson, in order to improve the housing infrastructure, my ministry will review the National Housing Policy to facilitate the provision of decent and affordable housing and, thereby, improve the quality of life for the majority of the people of Zambia. 
Sir, one of the strategies that the ministry will use is that of the PPPs. This will reduce the National Housing deficit, which stands at more than 1.5 million housing units. More than K6 billion has been provided for this purpose in the 2012 Budget.
Mr Chairperson, regarding decentralisation, as re-affirmed by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, in his Official Address to the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, my ministry intends to implement sector devolution, in 2012, on a pilot basis. In 2012, my ministry will embark on an accelerated building of capacity in the councils. Eight billion Kwacha has been set aside for this purpose.
Sir, in line with the Government’s overall development agenda of providing equal opportunities for all, my ministry has ensured that the allocation of resources, in the 2012 Budget, reflects the priority placed on programmes with the greatest impact on the majority of our people, especially the poor.
Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, under Head 20, hon. Members will agree with me on the importance of infrastructure development and the devolution of functions to the local authorities as proposed in the 2012 Budget. 
Sir, I appeal to this august House to support the 2012 Budget Estimates under Head 20. I will present Head 29 separately.
I thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson: Order! 
I said that both Heads will be considered together. So, you can continue with Head 29 because we are discussing both of them together.
Professor Luo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the guidance. I will proceed with Head 29.
Sir, as we examine Head 29, there is a need for the House to note that there is no allocation to early education as the Budget Ceiling had already been reached by the time the directorate was established. However, because of the importance of this sector to the education, care and development of children, my ministry will, in due course, request a Supplementary Budget for the purpose of supporting this new directorate. I urge the House to support the Supplementary Budget when it is presented.
Mr Chairperson, my ministry will review the Local Government Act Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia in order to establish a system of local government that will promote local economic development, improved delivery of essential infrastructure and services through local self-government.
Mr Chairperson, furthermore, the Government intends to enhance accountability, transparency and good governance at the local level by improving financial management systems as these are completely lacking in our local councils. In addition, my ministry will seek to develop financial mechanism that will take into account the revenue and expenditure assignments so as to address the fiscal plan. In this regard, the Government has increased the capital grant to my ministry from K25 billion to K125 billion. This is meant for infrastructure development. 

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is committed to financing micro-community projects in all the 150 constituencies as to enhance community participation in development activities at the local level. In this regard, as seen in the amendments, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been increased from K720 million to K1 billion per constituency…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: … with a proviso that we will have to ensure accountability in its use. 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Professor Luo: Sir, the law will visit those who bury it underground. Three billion kwacha has been allocated to the Local Government Service Commission in order to enhance the capacity of local authorities through the recruitment of qualified personnel.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is in the process of reviewing the Rating Act …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

On my right, at the back, please lower your voices. I cannot hear the hon. Minister. May you continue.

Professor Luo: Mr Chairperson, let me repeat, my ministry is in the process of reviewing the Rating Act, Cap. 192 of the Laws of Zambia so as to enhance the revenue base for local government. The Chalimbana Local Government Training Institute contributes to the ministry’s mission by facilitating human capacity building of local authorities for improved service delivery. My ministry intends to rehabilitate the institute’s infrastructure in order to improve the learning environment of our students. Furthermore, my ministry intends to improve the human resource capacity of the institute to enable it to deliver effectively on its mandate. To this end, we have allocated K6.8 billion to facilitate the core-business of training members of staff in local authorities and, also, continue with the on-going rehabilitation. The institute will also benefit from the capacity building of human resources allocated to the decentralised secretariat. 

Mr Chairperson, under environmental protection, K5 billion has been provided towards key areas, including policy and regulatory framework, effective environmental protection and management, in 2012. Let me hasten to say that this was part of an earlier ministry that handled tourism and environment, but was later split into two. Even the department that handled environmental matters was split further into environmental protection and natural resources, hence, the Budget of K5 billion.

Sir, to strengthen the policy and legal framework for effective environmental management, the ministry will finalise the climate change response strategy and policy. The Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act of 1990 that established the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ) was repealed and replaced by the Environmental Management Act, No. 12 of 2011, (EMA). The Act provides for the comprehensive management of the environment and natural resources.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, thank you, once again, for allowing me to place on record my support for this ministry that I consider to be very crucial. Of course, with the changes that we have seen due to the realignment of ministries under the PF Government, it is important that we try to walk side by side with one another in order to make sure that we allow the local authorities to be able to function to the expectations of the people who gave us the mandate to look after their interests and aspirations. 
Sir, many councils have failed lamentably countrywide to deliver basic services. The hon. Minister indicated very clearly that refuse disposal and other services offered by the local authorities for people that are domiciled in a number of local jurisdictions are not up to scratch.
Mr Chairperson, we have a big problem countrywide with the councils. In very exceptional circumstances, the Mazabuka Municipal Council does not experience the many difficulties that are affecting the operations of many councils in the country. This is because of the solid foundation that we had put together and the revenue generating initiatives that the previous regime had discontinued in form of crop levy and other levies. The money generated from such initiatives used to help the council to do the basics such as paying emoluments to workers.
I believe that many councils in this country are failing to meet their obligations. Corruption in land management has always been prevalent in almost all the councils because they are not able to pay their workers on time. The councillors are lame ducks because they are not allowed, currently, to engage in income generating activities. 
The hon. Minister indicated that she would like to see a situation whereby economic development is promoted through local governance. I think I heard her right. As you review your policies, Hon. Professor Luo, I am urging you to consider encouraging the councils, countrywide, to engage in income generating activities as long as they are working within the realms of legality and are not stifling businesses that are operating in their jurisdictions. This will enable councils provide basic services such the provision of street lights. If you go to many cities, including Lusaka, you will see that there is infrastructure in place such as street light poles, but no basic things like bulbs. I think that the councils should be made free enough to be able to engage in a number of revenue earning activities. 
Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister also talked about the Rates Act. I heard her say that she was working towards facilitating the revision of the Act. I agree with her that this needs to be done. I urge her to work hand in hand with her colleague in the Ministry of Lands, Energy and Water Development because that is the ministry that is responsible for issuance of title deeds. There is so much revenue that is being lost by councils because the new owners have not been given title deeds for the houses they bought from the Government. You cannot charge anybody land rates if they do not have a document of title. I believe that that would be another source of revenue. The hon. Minister could work hand in hand with her colleague to make sure that you fast track the issuance of title deeds. 
Mr Chairperson, I think that it is true to say that environmental issues are cross-cutting matters which cover all areas of human endeavour. Environmental degradation has caused sufficient devastation in almost all societies, not only in the rural areas, like Hon. Kaingu has said, because it has no boundaries. I know the hon. Minister is aware of this and, probably, the limitation of time to deliver her policy statement is what was the inhibiting factor for her to have indicated that there are some facilities from the United Nations (UN) and the Global Environment Facility that would allow for carbon credits and a green climate fund to be given if a country qualified to have a clean development mechanism in place in order to reduce greenhouse gases even in this part of the world. 
In this part of the world, we know that we cannot avoid using certain lifestyle measures for survival and, therefore, we have no option, but to produce greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide through charcoal burning, coal mining and all those things that we experience from the production industry on the Copperbelt. If a country qualifies to get funding from certain facilities, it can actually get money for use to find alternative forms of generating energy. 
Mr Chairperson, I thought I must share just those few sentiments. I do support the ministry’s budget and I would also like to assure the hon. Minister of my unrelenting support to make sure that the interest and aspirations of the people who asked us to come and represent them here in this House are met.
I thank you very much.
Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for allowing me to make a contribution to the debate which is currently on the Floor of the House. In the first place, I want to state that local government is a very important area of our development and, personally, I do not call it a sector because I believe that local government is a cocktail of a number of sectors. It encompasses education, agriculture, community development and so on and so forth. Everything that we can talk about in terms of our moving forward as a nation is found in local government. Therefore, I take keen interest in looking at this particular budget. 
Mr Chairperson, when you look at local government, there are a number of principles that guide it. One of the many principles, and they are usually five, is that of service delivery to the communities because local government is best attuned to the environment where the agents are actually operating from.
Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Sir.
The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mrs Masebo: Mr Chairperson, I rarely rise on points of order as a senior hon. Member of Parliament. However, I rise on a very serious point of order on my colleague who is a former hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. Is he in order to start his debate without paying homage to me who taught him local government principles? I seek your serious ruling.
Laughter 
The Chairperson: I think I would advise the two hon. Members to settle such issues outside this House. 
Laughter 
The Chairperson: However, the hon. Member is in order and may continue.
Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, indeed, we worked very well when we were together.
Laughter 
Dr Kazonga: Before the point of order, I was talking about one of the major principles that guides local government and that is service delivery. When I look at the budget, I find a number of budget lines that are targeting the service provision. Before I go into details, I want to look at one very important area of service provision in local governance and that is water supply and sanitation.
In the first place, I am happy to note that there is now harmonisation between water supply and sanitation and the regulation of water supply and sanitation which we looked at earlier on when we were looking at the portfolios so that the regulations and provision of this water supply and sanitation are together. I give you credit for having done that.
Mr Chairperson, water supply and sanitation in this country is a very important activity because it is connected to people’s health as the hon. Minister admitted. Once, we tackle the problems in the water supply and sanitation sector, we shall see a reduction in the provision of the budget to the Ministry of Health. This is because the number of epidemics that we experience, such as diarrhoea, will be reduced. Therefore, I want emphasise that local government is closely linked to health. As I indicated earlier on, it is a cocktail of sectors. I am happy to note that the institutional framework that we have right now is very progressive. The needs of the rural community can be attended to through the National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme. A number of things that can contribute to a reduction in the rural poverty can now be implemented because of the institutional framework which is in place. I have in mind, in particular, the National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme running from 2006 up to 2015, but split into two, from 2006 up to 2010 and 2011 up to 2015. I am sure at some stage we shall get a briefing on how far we have gone in the implementation of this programme. This programme seeks to addressing the needs of the rural population. I am happy to note that there is a provision for sinking boreholes in our rural areas through the implementation of this particular programme. We shall at least see people having access to clean drinking water and also sanitation facilities. Therefore as a country, we shall then be talking about development which addresses the concerns of the rural poor. 
Mr Chairperson, I am sure that the hon. Minister will be able to comment at a later stage on the water supply and sanitation facilities in urban areas. There was a proposal for peri-urban and urban water supply and sanitation to supplement the other one which is targeting the rural population.
Mr Chairperson, I am so happy that the two programmes, if nicely implemented, can contribute to efforts aimed at addressing the water supply and sanitation problems in the country. As I indicated earlier on, the institutional arrangement, for instance, in the urban areas whereby we deliver water to the people through commercial water utilities, I can assure you, is the best institutional arrangement. However, what are the current challenges that are limiting the ability of the national water utilities to deliver adequately? What needs to be improved are the levels of financing. Why is financing so important?
The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)
_________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair] 

(Progress reported)
________

The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 14th December, 2011.