Debates- Wednesday, 21st December, 2011

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Wednesday, 21st December, 2011

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have an announcement to make. In accordance with Standing Order No. 133, Sub 3, the following changes have been made to the composition of the following committees:

Committee on Estimates (1)

Hon. R. Mwewa, MP, has been replaced by Mr L. Chabala, MP.

Committee on Delegated Legislation (1)

Hon. E. J. Muchima, MP, has been replaced by Mr J. Chishiba, MP.

Committee on Reforms and Modernisation (1)

Hon. Colonel Retired G. A. Chanda, MP, has been replaced by Mrs S. T. Masebo, MP.

Committee on Labour, Youth and Sport (1)

Hon. S. Masumba, MP, has been replaced by Mr R. Taima, MP.

Committee on Health, community Development and Social Welfare (3)

Hon. Colonel Retired G. A. Chanda, MP, has been replaced by Mr O. Chisala, MP;

Hon. I. Banda, MP, has been replaced by Mr C. Simfukwe, MP; and

Hon. R. Mwewa, MP, has been replaced by Mr R. Chitotela, MP.

I thank you.




59.Mr D. Mumba (Chama North) asked the Minister of Labour, Youth and Sport:

(a) when funds for the completion of construction of the Chama Youth Skills Training Centre would be released; and

(b)when the centre would be opened to the public.

The Deputy Minister of Labour, Youth and Sport (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that, in 2011, K400 million was allocated to complete construction works at Chama Youth Skills Training Centre. However, the funds have not been released by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

I am happy to announce that K50 billion has been allocated, in the 2012 Budget, for the youth skills training and development centres of which K1 billion will go towards the completion of Chama Youth Skill Training Centre. This represents an increase of 150 per cent compared to the 2011 allocation, which is a clear demonstration of this Government’s commitment to completing the centre.

Mr Speaker, it is expected that the centre will be operational and opened to the public by August, 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muteteka (Chisamba): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how many youth skills training centres are under construction, countrywide, those completed and those opened to the public.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Sakeni) on behalf of the Minister of Labour, Youth and Sport (Mr Shamenda): Mr Speaker, that is a very different question. If I had been asked that question earlier, I would have provided the necessary information.

I thank you, Sir.


60.Mr Kalaba (Bahati) asked the Minister of Health when a health centre would be constructed at Mwanachama in Bahati Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans for the construction of a health centre at Mwanachama in Bahati Parliamentary Constituency in 2012. The construction of a health centre at Mwanachama has been included in the 2012 Ministry of Health Infrastructure Operational Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, in the previous years’ Budget, there were some monies allocated for a health centre at Mwanachama, but it was not constructed. Since the hon. Minister said that the Government will construct one health centre, I would like to know what has changed this year.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, what has changed is the Government.

I thank you, Sir.






THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2011

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.


Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.


Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE VALUE ADDED TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2011

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.


Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule on pages 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25,

26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 …


The Chairperson: Order! There are too many of us talking. I am the only one who is supposed to be talking. If you have to talk, do it quietly. I have no problem with that. However, if you talk with a loud voice, you disturb me.

… 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

SCHEDULE – (In the Appendix III, in the Ninth Schedule, on page 59)

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that Appendix III, in Clause 5, on page 59 be amended by the insertion, immediately after subheading 2615.90.00, of the following new headings and subheadings:

 HS Description of Goods Stat Unit Export
   of Qty duty

 26.16 Precious metal ores and concentrates: kg 10 %
 2616.10.00  -Silver ores and concentrates kg 10 % 
 2616.90.00  Other kg 10 %

 26.17 Other ores and concentrates:
 2617.10.00  Antimony ores and Concentrates kg 10 %
 2617.90.00  Other kg 10 %
 2618.00.00 Granulated slag (slag sand) from tonne 10 %
  the manufacture of iron or steel

 2619.00.00 Slag, dross (other than granulated slag), tonne 10 %
  scalings and other waste from the 
  manufacture of iron or steel

 26.20 Slag, ash and residues (other than from the tonne 10 %  
  manufacture of iron or steel), containing
   metals, arsenic or their compounds.

   Containing mainly zinc tonne 10 %
 2620.11.00  hard zinc smelter tonne 10 %
 2620.19.00  Other
   containing mainly lead tonne 10 %
 2620.21.00  Leaded gasoline sludges and
   Leaded anti-knock compound tonne 10 %
 2620.20.29.00  Other tonne 10 %
 2620.30.00  containing mainly copper tonne 10 %
 2620.40.00  containing mainly aluminum tonne 10 %

 2620.60.00 Containing arsenic, mercury, tonne 10 %
  Thallium or their mixtures, of a kind
  Used for the extraction of arsenic or
  Those metals or for the manufacture of
  their chemical compounds
 2620.91.00 containing antimony, beryllium, Cadmium, tonne 10 %
  Chromium or their mixtures
 2620.99.00 Other  tonne 10 %

 26.21 Other slag and ash, including tonne  10 %
  Seaweed ash (kelp); ash and residues from
  the incineration of municipal waste
 2621.10.00 Ash and residues from the incineration tonne 10 %
  Of municipal waste
 2607.90.00 Other  tonne 10 %

Amendment agreed to. Schedule amended accordingly.

Schedule on page 59, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.


[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2011

The Mines and Minerals Development (Amendment) Bill, 2011

The Zambia Development Agency (Amendment) Bill, 2011

The Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2011

Third Readings on Thursday, 22nd December, 2011.
The following Bill was reported as having passed through Committee with amendment:

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2011

Report Stage on Thursday, 22nd December, 2011.




VOTES 90 to 98 – (Office of the President – Provinces: Lusaka – K41,245,806,143, Copperbelt – K51,661,948,103, Central – K43,247,063,113, Northern – K54,264,850,234, Western – K43,571,638,829, Eastern – K48,136,212,317, Luapula – K42,730,233,176, North-Western – K44,694,899,913 and Southern – K65,924,586,365).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, yesterday, I was about to talk about the position of the Western Province …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Before the hon. Minister raises the point of order, I would like to guide the House to try, as much as possible, and avoid debating through points of order because we might end up delaying our work. Can the hon. Minister proceed.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order, which is procedural.

Sir, you appointed Members of the Select Committee to scrutinise the appointment of Mr Mutembo Nchito as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) and Mr Musa Mwenye as Solicitor-General, respectively.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo-West, Mr Lufuma, raised a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana, Mr Luxon Kazabu, and you ruled that the hon. Member for Nkana was in order to debate the way he was doing unless he was debating against his Committee’s Report.

Sir, are the hon. Members of Parliament for Choma Central, Mr Mweetwa, Sinda, Mr L. J. Ngoma and Moomba, Mr Mooya, in order to vote against their Committee’s Report?

Sir, it is a breach of Parliamentary procedure for members of a Committee to vote against their Committee’s Report. I seek your serious ruling on this matter.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

I thank the hon. Minister for that point of order. The information that we have is that two of the three hon. Members of Parliament you have mentioned abstained and did not vote against the Committee’s Report. Only one of the three voted against it. I will address myself to the one who voted against it because, for those who abstained, the rules of the game permit it.

For the hon. Member who voted against the Committee’s Report, all I can say, at this time, is that appropriate action will be taken against him.

Can the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I stand to commend the Vote on provinces, including the new province, Muchinga.

Sir, I was about to say that western does not mean waste. The people of the Western Province feel neglected because of the poverty. They do not have a good livelihood.

Mr Chairperson, we are debating the Budget and the resources have been allocated to all the provinces, including the Western Province. If we remember the parable of the talents from the Bible, there was one man who was given the least number of talents, but he buried the talent because he felt it was little.

Sir, I believe that there is no amount of money that is small, whether it is K1 or K20. What is important is the proper use of the resources. Funds are always diverted from the intended goals of bringing development to any given area. So, when the funds are diverted, there will be no development.

Mr Chairperson, in this Budget, some sectors might not be covered, but we should make sure that whatever is allocated is utilised in the respective provinces. The policy statement showed that one of the functions of the provincial administration is to co-ordinate all the districts in the province. Co-ordination means to be in contact with all the districts and knowing what is on the ground in each district.

It is like in a family. When a child is sick or hungry, the parent has the duty to secure food or medicine for him/her. As you know, sometimes, there are children who eat more than others. They grab what others are supposed to have. It is the responsibility of the parent to secure the safety of the weak child. The same applies to provincial administrations in all the provinces. They have the task of looking after all the districts.

Mr Chairperson, some districts such as Kalabo are vulnerable. It is a well-known fact that Kalabo is poor because, economically, it does not have strong ventures which generate money. How many times does the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) visit Kalabo? It does not because it knows that even if it goes there, only few traders will manage to pay tax.

Sir, my request is that we should not divert the funds that are meant for rural roads. We need those roads to be worked on to improve the livelihood of our people. However, I have a question on the nature of these rural roads. For example, we know that the Western Province is a sandy area. Instead of making roads, we make paths. We should improve these paths by applying gravel. Surely, if we claim that we have made rural roads by cutting shrubs and letting the vehicles use them, it is like we have not done anything. We should have gravel roads as rural roads.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Miyutu: It fits us also to have gravel roads. Who said that when you are in a rural area you do not need to have a feeder road made of gravel?


Mr Miyutu: All we need is just gravel. We do not even need to import it because it is locally acquired.

I, therefore, suggest that, for a change, the 2012 Budget should bring a new picture. We would like to see gravelled feeder roads in the Western Province instead of cutting shrubs and letting tractors pass through. This should be done in any other province where there is sand.

Mr Chairperson, we need to have provincial centres. If you went to Mongu, you would find that our main road is completely worn out. It is supposed to have two lanes, but it is almost becoming a one lane road because of the wearing out on the sides. When we are driving on that road, we have to give each other a chance to pass. I think the contractors that we engage should know how to construct roads. They should be able to do quality work. There must be a difference between constructing a road on a sandy terrain and constructing a road in places such as Kasama. I am saying so because in Kasama, there are rocks and the ground is already solid, but in the Western Province, there is sand all over. Therefore, we need good contractors who can give us good roads. My request is that the provincial administration in the Western Province must try to improve that ka small road. We like that road and we want it …

The Chairperson: Order!

Let me just correct the hon. Member. There are a number of people listening to your debate and they might think it is correct to say something like “that ka small road”. Please, speak English.


Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, it is due to my mother tongue. I am saying that this road is small due to its worn-out condition. I said it is a “ka small road” because it is wearing out on the sides.

The Chairperson: Order!

You do not qualify the Chair’s ruling.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, there is also an issue of water. We have a lot of water in the Western Province and, sometimes, this water can become hazardous if it is not handled well. Currently, there are floods and we will have excess water, but we are not making any good use of this water. We do not tap it and when the rains go, we run short of water. Therefore, we must have ways of harnessing this water. We used to have good rivers that never dried up in that area, but due to climate change, rivers now dry up. We should, therefore, look at how we can conserve water so that it lasts. There are areas which used to have lakes but, now, those lakes have dried up and the animals in those areas have no drinking water.

Mr Speaker, I have looked at the budget for agriculture. I recall that there was a time when we used to have a big number of livestock in the Western Province. We used to see trucks ferrying livestock from Mongu to some places for sale. The peasant farmers used to sell a lot of it to Zambeef and raised a lot of money. Today, due to the Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia (CBPP), we have lost a large number of livestock. Many people do not have livestock anymore. My request is that if at all there are resources for livestock restocking, we should restock and breed good livestock for the farmers to get what they used to get in the past. At the moment, they do not have livestock and have no other means of raising money. They do not even have good farming input programmes.

Mr Chairperson, it is said that the first will be the last and the last will be the first.


Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, the Western Province was the first province to provide education in this country. The first schools were built in the Western Province. I did my primary school at Liumba School, which was built in 1923. The province which started education in Zambia is now the least in as far as education is concerned. There must be something wrong. We should not admit that the first should be the last. The first should maintain its position, but an effort has to be applied to maintain the position. This effort is through the resources which are allocated to the province. We should have better schools.

Mr Chairperson, you can imagine, since 1964, there have been many promises made. Sometime back, we were promised a university in the Western Province but, at the moment, I do not know whether this promise still stands or not. To date, there is no university there. Some of the high schools that are there are in a bad state and leave much to be desired. Therefore, more effort has to be made. That is why I am saying that the diversion of funds should be controlled.

Sir, we used to have good health facilities in the Western Province but, now, these health facilities are run down. At the moment, in some health centres, you will find workers who do not have the required facilities. Recently, there was a typhoid outbreak in Kalabo, but no vehicles were taken to assist the local administration there. That is why the word ‘co-ordination’, must be studied. In the dictionary, this word is a mother word. That is why in the ministerial statement, the word, ‘co-ordination’ was the first function.  I, therefore, urge the provincial management to make sure that it assists and delivers services to the districts whenever need arises.

Mr Chairperson, in the Western Province, there are plains. During the time there are floods, we need canals. Therefore, we request that a dredging machine be provided. We must see it go to all the districts that need canals such as Kalabo. Without canals, flooding will not end. Therefore, the canals are very important to our livelihood.

Mr Chairperson, I request the provincial management in all the provinces to think positively so that they can deliver to the districts and, thereafter, the rural areas.

Mr Chairperson, with these, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Although we are given a maximum of fifteen minutes, we are all capable of making our points in less than that time. Please, let us be brief and avoid repetition.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, I am an obedient servant and will obey your instructions.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to acknowledge the fact that development starts from provinces and, therefore, provincial administration is an important aspect of the Government.

Mr Chairperson, I will briefly go into the history of the North-Western Province and also talk about the current situation and what our expectations are. The North-Western Province has been one of the least developed provinces in the country. It started developing when the late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC., came on the scene. That is when we saw an influx of development into the province. For many others who might not know, the present Kansanshi Mine is the second. There was a Kansanshi Mine earlier, which was totally demolished and it closed down on the belief that there were no minerals there to be mined.

When the late Dr Mwanawasa, SC., became President, the current Kansanshi Mine was opened and this is when we saw an influx of development into the North-Western Province.

Currently, the North-Western Province is the only province with diesel-generated electricity, except for two districts, namely Solwezi and Kasempa. The rest of the province has diesel-generated electricity. The Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government, however, had started a project to connect all the districts to the national grid and I have no doubt that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, as promised by the President, will continue with the projects started by the MMD.

Mr Chairperson, in the recent past, the North-Western Province has seen a lot of mines come up while others are in the pipeline. However, the people in the province are worried about deforestation. As more people flock to the province for work, they will need charcoal. As we are aware, almost 80 per cent of Zambia’s energy used in homes is charcoal generated. I, therefore, implore the new Government to look at avenues of how this can be addressed.

Mr Chairperson, in the North-Western Province, there is only one road that is being tarred, namely the M8. Twenty-seven years after Independence, the province had no tarred road until later when we struggled, as a country, to have the M8 completed. The MMD Government had to contract three companies to have the works on this road completed in good time.

There are so many roads that need to be attended to and I am happy that the President indicated that some of these roads we have in mind such as the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road, which my brother Hon. Dr Chituwo mentioned and which is quite important, will be attended to. There are also the Mutanda/Mwinilunga and the Kasempa/Kaoma roads that are just as important. All these roads are needed to open up the North-Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, there are a number of projects that were started by the previous Government and which are still going on. I am appealing to the provincial administration to inspect these projects. We may have them on paper, but the most important factor is to ensure that they are implemented. Even the provision of about K44.6 billion to the province must be monitored. The most important thing is the implementation and inspection of these projects. If we do not inspect the projects, we will not realise that they are not being implemented or that there is no progress. Some projects have stalled for many years because of a lack of inspection. 

Mr Chairperson, the provincial administration have the power to inspect some of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects. They have the right to ensure that the projects are being worked on and completed so that the North-Western Province starts developing at the same level as other provinces.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue is that of town planning. Since the North-Western Province is becoming a new copperbelt, we need to plan for this new development. Town planning must be attended to. We do not want to have unplanned development in the North-Western Province. The time to plan is now.

Mr Chairperson, with these words and abiding by your instruction, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate Head 95, the Eastern Province.

Mr Chairperson, a number of issues in the Eastern Province have to be tackled and one way of doing this is through infrastructure development. Generally speaking, the issues in the Eastern Province can be divided into hardware and software categories. Under hardware, the province is facing challenges in terms of road infrastructure. Our main road is the Great East Road. We cannot talk about the Malawi/Mozambique/Zambia Growth Triangle without considering the Great East Road. One of the major challenges the province has is the condition in which the road is, particularly from Nyimba to Sinda, and further to Katete.

Mr Chairperson, I have seen an increase in the Budget from K39.5 billion to K48.1 billion, which is approximately a 23 per cent increase. I hope that this increase will also correspond to the number of activities that will be carried out to address these concerns.

Mr Chairperson, development in the province hinges on the road network. I would like to start by looking at the provincial headquarters, Chipata, then at the districts that lead to it. The Great East Road is one road that links other districts to Chipata. The other one is the Chipata/Mfuwe Road. I am aware that, currently, some works are being carried out on the Chipata/Mfuwe Road and I hope that they will be completed soon enough in accordance with the contract arrangements.

There is also another road from Chipata to Lundazi. I know that a portion of it was repaired. However, we are still remaining with another portion. I hope that the provincial administration can monitor some of these Government projects even though they are from the sector ministries. There is also the Chipata/Chadiza Road to be worked on. I have excluded Chama because it is now in Muchinga Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: The Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication was able to identify this road as one that needed to be worked on next year.

To look at development in the province, one must first look at the road network leading to the provincial headquarters. I hope that, soon, we will have a tarred road from Chipata to Chadiza and, in turn, from Chadiza to Katete, connecting to the Mozambique Road. This way, we shall promote a number of economic activities and see development in the province as far as we are concerned in the province. Therefore, the road network has to be looked at seriously. I hope that with provincial administration under a seasoned Provincial Minister and Permanent Secretary (PS), who started by being Deputy PS, this matter will be seriously looked at. He has the experience so we ask that we work together in order to address these issues.

The roads I have mentioned are the main ones that lead to Chipata, and without them being addressed, development will not reach the people in the districts. We used to have eight districts, but now there are only seven. I hope that there could be some consideration that a new district is born by the name of Vubwi.


Dr Kazonga: I hope that His Honour the Vice-President will look into this possibility so that the services can get closer to the people. I am appealing to His Honour the Vice-President to consider establishing Vubwi as a district.

Looking at the issues of infrastructure, I started with the road network, but I now want to talk about dams. We need dams for our animals, irrigation purposes and water supply. Therefore, the construction of a good number of boreholes and dams are important programmes. As we look at achieving the millennium development goals (MDGs) in Eastern Province, we feel that the road infrastructure and water supply and sanitation should be tackled.

Sir, the province is, generally, an agricultural area.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: There is a lot of farming that takes place there and that is why the road network has to be addressed, including the feeder roads, especially the one that leads to Vubwi.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: I hope that the provincial administration will ensure that what has been planned is executed next year.

Sir, when you look further at infrastructure, which is part of the hardware issues in the province, you will notice that we need a number of schools to be constructed. We need hospitals and health posts and so on and so forth. We hope that the provincial administration, through the implementation of the Decentralisation Policy, in which we are going to devolve some of the functions, but with matching resources, will be able achieve this.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of the hardware issues in the province, the main ones are the road networks, schools, hospitals and health posts and the dams that I have already talked about.

Sir, since the Eastern Province is basically an agricultural area. We, the people of the Eastern Province, appreciate the importance of this sector. We hope that once some of these feeder roads that are captured in the Budget are worked on, access to the market for our small-scale farmers will improve. Through that, we hope that the cost of doing this kind of business will be reduced.

Sir, the province, as a whole, has many challenges and we hope that, through working together, we can solve some of them. In the first place, the provincial administration must work closely with sector ministries because the province encompasses all the sectors.

Mr Chairperson, I will now move to the meso level of issues in the province. I started with macro level. Now, I am going to move to my district, Chadiza District.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: In Chadiza District, there are basically four roads that would ignite development.

Mr Mbewe: hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: The first road is the direct one from Chadiza to Vubwi.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: That road is important because it is a shortcut that allows one to avoid going through Chipata.

Mr Mbewe: Mwamvela ba Kaunda?

Dr Kazonga: The next important road is the Chadiza/Tafelansoni, which is very important going through Mulolo and on to the Mozambique Road.

Mr Mbewe: Ba Kaunda, mwamvela?

Dr Kazonga: The other is the Chadiza/Chilenga Road. It is a very important road that leads to Katete.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, behind the hills!

Dr Kazonga: The next road is Chadiza/Kazimule, …

Mr Mbewe: Yes!

Dr Kazonga: … which is another important road. So, as far as we are concerned at the district, which is our meso level, we hope these roads will be attended to so that the people of Chadiza District can also receive the much-needed development.

Mr Mbewe: Including ba Kaunda!

Dr Kazonga: Yes, of course, including the hon. Deputy of Minister of Defence.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!


Colonel Kaunda: I will see you outside!


Dr Kazonga: The next issue, at the district level, Mr Chairperson, is that of water supply and sanitation. We need a number of water points to be constructed, including boreholes. Water supply and sanitation is one of the issues we are facing in our district.

Sir, I now move to micro level, my constituency, Vubwi. There are a number of challenges, some of which have already been talked about. We hope that, at least, this activity that has been budgeted for; the Mwami Bridge, which is a shortcut from Chadiza to Vubwi, will be worked on. Immediately the bridge and the road are worked on, we shall reduce the cost of taking development to the people of Vubwi.

Sir, the next point is, again, that of water supply. A number of wards in the area need clean water supply and sanitation. For example, Chipanje, Chisiye and Mwangazi wards are all in need of clean water supply and sanitation. We need to link this to the development of the constituency. As far as service provision is concerned, as I already requested, I hope there can be a consideration to turn Vubwi into a district.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: These services should come closer to the people and I am quite confident that the Government will put that as an important agenda item.

Mr Muntanga: Especially, Colonel Kaunda!


Dr Kazonga: Yes, he is listening.

The next point is the issue of power supply. We need the area to be connected to the national grid and the nearest point is Mwami Hospital. We hope that Vubwi will be electrified so that a lot of development goes to the area, including Zozwe where my brother, the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence, comes from.


Dr Kazonga: So, many people will benefit from these activities.

All in all, a number of these are hardware issues. The software issues are, basically, financial resources. Without financial resources we will not address …

Mr Mwenya: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing this point of order. First and foremost, I would like to apologise to the hon. Member …

Mr Muntanga: Speak up. Are you hungry?


Mr Mwenya: … who is debating very well.

Hon. Government Member: So well?

Mr Mwenya: Sir, only a few months ago, the hon. Member of Parliament for Vubwi was an hon. Minister in the Government. Is he in order to debate in the manner he is doing without advising the PF Government on the challenges that his administration faced that caused it to fail to develop the areas in line with what he is now advising this Government to do?

The Chairperson: The simple ruling is that the mantle of power is now in the hands of the PF. So, he is bringing the matter to the attention of the Government, which is PF led.

You may continue.

Dr Kazonga: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Some of us are national leaders and we look at issues nationally. We did not just look at one area. We were a group of national leaders. Therefore, it is within my mandate to advise this Government, which I am simply doing. If it does not want to take that advice, let it be so. The people out there will judge you.


Dr Kazonga: Sir, in conclusion, I want to emphasise that the issues that concern the people in my province, district and constituency can be addressed. The attempt to increase the budgetary allocation to the province is appreciated and we hope that more can be done so that we achieve the development that all of us need in this country.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Chairperson, I take up the Floor to debate the Vote for the Copperbelt Province, a province that, at one time, used to be the glamour of the Republic of Zambia, and yet, today, we cannot say the same about it. The fact is that the wealth that is seen in the various parts of Zambia comes from the Copperbelt Province. How, today, the province can stand in a state of deterioration is something that boggles the mind.

Mr Chairperson, I have a long list of challenges that the Copperbelt Province faces. However, since I am constrained by time, I will see how far I can go in articulating the challenges that the province where I live faces.

Sir, first of all, I want to talk about roads. The roads in the many areas of the Copperbelt are in state of disrepair. It does not matter what town you are going to, the state of roads is the same. For example, if you go to Kamuchanga Township, in Mufulira, you will be met by roads that are a sorry sight. You can also go to Kabundi, in Chingola, Kabushi, in Ndola, and Mpatamatu in Luanshya; I do not know how to describe what used to be roads. The same goes for towns in Kalulushi and Kitwe.

Mr Chairperson, for a province that makes such a big contribution to the development of this country, this state of affairs is unfair. The province deserves its due share from the national resources. I take note that, in the 2012 Budget, there has been an increase in the allocation to the Province, from K43,809,691,038 to K51,661,948,103, which reflects an increase of about K7.8 billion. We appreciate that upward adjustment, but would have loved to see a much bigger allocation because of the very reason that I have already shared with the House.

Mr Chairperson, going forward, we want to cry, through the Chair …

Mr Muntanga: No, do not cry.

Mr Kazabu: We want to pray and cry, through the Chair, that the roads in most of the areas where our people live are attended to so that our people can also appreciate the benefit of our country’s being independent and the fact that they are getting a good share of what is coming from their province,

Mr Chairperson, I now move to water supply, which is another huge challenge on the Copperbelt. I am aware that the Government decided to form water utility companies for the purpose of managing water supply and sanitation. Sadly, the three water utilities that we have on the Copperbelt, namely, Nkana Water and Sewerage, Kafubu Water and Sewerage and Mulonga Water and Sewerage, do not have the capacity to supply water to most of the residents. Clearly, this situation requires the timely intervention of the Central Government. These water utilities need to be capacitated for them to deliver a meaningful service to the citizens of the province. I know that the water utilities are faced with a number of problems that range from old water plants, with limited capacities, to old distribution networks. In fact, the pipes, which were laid some years ago, are now decayed and, in some cases, completely obsolete. So, that is the problem when it comes to water reticulation. The water utilities also are faced with the problem of very low cash flows and this is as a result of, first of all, unaccounted-for water and, secondly, a high level of default on the part of the consumers of this very important product called water. Among the defaulters are Government institutions, schools, police camps, army barracks …

Mrs Masebo: Hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Kazabu: … and hospitals. So, with these institutions not paying for the water they consume, it follows that the water utilities do not get as much money as they ought to in order to invest part of that money in infrastructure development.

Mr Chairperson, there is also the problem of vandalism. Obviously, we, leaders, must put our heads together to fight this scourge because it just sets us backwards if what we build ends up being destroyed by some of our people. Further, I have heard, several times, people saying that the water tariffs in Zambia, compared to those in other countries, are very low. I think that, if we are to make meaningful comparisons, we must compare apples with apples. When we fix our tariffs, we should also consider the level of wages in the country. If we start comparing water tariffs here with, maybe, those in Botswana, we should go a step further and ask what the wage levels are in Botswana. Otherwise, this product is quickly getting out of the reach of most of our people. Since water is said to be life, I think we should do all that can be done to ensure that most of our people have access to this very important commodity.

Mr Chairperson, I think I will close with comments on sanitation. I have spoken on the Floor of this House that many of our people have suffered an injustice by being made to live with the colonial legacy of being made to use pit latrines and communal toilets. If you go to Buchi, which is in my constituency, Kamitondo or even Kwacha, you will find that each household has dug pit latrines everywhere in their small area and, now, they have nowhere else to dig.

Mr Muntanga: Ooh?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, this is an issue that should touch the hearts of all leaders. Therefore, I want to submit to this august House that we need to embark on a huge project to sort out this problem of sanitation because our people cannot be made to use pit latrines forty-seven years after Independence. It is not fair.

Hon. Government Member: Especially Kitwe.

Mr Kazabu: Yes, especially in Kitwe, but there are also other areas that I am aware of.

The Chairperson: Aah! Hon. Member.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, finally, I want to talk about infrastructure development. How can anyone of us explain the disparity in terms of infrastructure development between that which is taking place in Lusaka and that which is happening in other towns? I am mindful of the fact that it is our capital city, but surely Lusaka is not Zambia and Zambia is not Lusaka. Can this new Government, in which I have so much confidence, help us, from other towns, to also to have shopping malls like Levy Junction Shopping Mall, Manda Hill Shopping Mall and Arcades Shopping Mall, which is near Parliament.

Mr Muntanga: Yes.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, it is only now that we have Pick ‘n’ Pay in Ndola. I think we need more infrastructure development on the Copperbelt. Currently, there is a shopping mall which is under construction on the Copperbelt. What makes us sad is that the construction of that mall has been going on at a snail’s pace. The citizens of the Copperbelt are aggrieved because when they come here and enter even just Game Stores, they look as if they have just arrived from one of our rural areas. Surely, the Copperbelt is not predominantly a rural province.


Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, somebody is saying that we look as if we have just arrived from Kalomo.


Mr Kazabu: It is not me, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.


The Chairperson: No, I will not grant you that point of order because you are the one who is …


Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the people of the Copperbelt, I am saying that we are crying for wonderful shopping facilities so that we can enjoy the pleasure of shopping in a conducive environment.

The House Messenger gave him a note.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, a note has just been passed on to me stating that we, on the Copperbelt, also require a revival of our industrial base. For now, the industrial area which used to be our pride is now a sorry sight. Most of the big companies that used to employ a lot of people in our province are no longer there. I think there is a need to offer the necessary incentives so that some of those companies that went away can come back to the Copperbelt to help us create jobs for our people.

With those very brief remarks, I want to thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Chairperson, I will restrict my debate to the Northern Province. There is an increase in the budgetary allocation to the Northern Province. It has gone up in nominal terms by, at least, 20 per cent. I believe that the Northern Province in terms of physical size is the biggest province with thirteen districts. I am aware that the Vote that we are considering for the Northern Province caters for Muchinga Province as well.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, the Vote for the Northern Province, this time around, has the misfortune of being the only provincial allocation in the Budget which is going to be shared by two provinces. I believe that this process will be handled carefully by the Government. The dividing of the province into two provinces has, indeed, come at an appropriate time. This is a development which has been welcomed by people both in the Northern Province as well as those in the new Muchinga Province. It is believed that this development will enhance service delivery.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to state that Northern Province is predominantly a rural province. Most people in the province wallow in abject poverty as they depend mostly on agriculture as their main economic activity. Infrastructure development is another issue of concern in the Northern Province. At the moment, we are suffering because of having poor infrastructure. The challenges faced by the districts in the Northern Province such as Kasama, Mporokoso, Luwingu and Chilubi are similar to the ones faced by the districts in the Muchinga Province. The districts have bad feeder and access roads. Our people travel long distances to access health care from health centres that are not even well equipped.

Mr Chairperson, we also have poor water and sanitation facilities. The primary, basic and secondary schools in the area also face a number of challenges. There are certain districts which do not even have high schools that you can write home about. Those are the challenges that are faced by the Northern Province.

Mr Chairperson, I have looked at the budget for the Northern Province and tried to analyse it by isolating programmes or projects that will specifically go towards frontline poverty reduction programmes. I see that we have almost K11.5 billion that will go towards frontline poverty reduction programmes which include works on feeder roads as well as bridges. Now, when we do a district analysis, you will see that each district will only, on average, receive at least K1 billion for poverty reduction programmes. Each of the twenty-one constituencies will receive a paltry sum of K541 million only for poverty reduction programmes. This amount of money is not sufficient for the work which needs to be done. I would like to acknowledge the funding that might come through sector ministries to our districts as well as the constituencies even though I do not have full details about it because it is asymmetrical information. Information is not known at the district level regarding which projects will be funded by the Central Government.

I hope that, in future, the Government will go a little bit further by breaking down the Yellow Book so that people in the districts can have an idea of how much money will go towards developing their districts. I think that this information gap is in all the districts in Zambia, particularly rural ones.

At the moment, there is no one who knows precisely how much money will go to respective districts because this information is only known by the Central Government. This is what creates the opportunity for corruption and the misapplication of funds to take place as we have seen in the past. It also makes it difficult for other stakeholders, who may want to track the funding to projects under sector ministries, because they lack the necessary information for them to do a good job.

I hope that, in future, information will be made available to everyone so that, at the end of the day, an hon. Members of Parliament can be in a position to know how much will go to Luwingu District for developmental projects.

Mr Chairperson, we need to come up with district development budgets which will enable us track the money being given to each district. Most importantly, there is a need for institutional capacity development at all levels, especially at the provincial administration level. We have certain departments that are manned by under qualified personnel. This is very key especially, if we are going to expedite the implementation of our developmental programmes. We need to have capacity building at all levels in all the ministries. 

There is also a need to exercise fiscal discipline whenever funds are disbursed. The funds have to be disbursed timely and fiscal discipline has to be exercised by all the controlling officers. We also need to enhance transparency and accountability in the usage of resources.

Mr Chairperson, Chilubi, like other districts in the Northern Province, lacks proper infrastructure. We need to have feeder roads done and sufficient schools and hospitals in all the districts. Most importantly, in order to enhance economic development, we need to focus on the implementation of the Rural Electrification Programme.

Mr Chairperson, I am aware that there is funding which has been made available to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) in the 2012 Budget. For now, we cannot be sure of how these funds will be used by REA. These are some of the issues that I thought I needed to bring to the attention of the House as I support the Vote for the Northern Province.

With those few remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for the opportunity to debate the budget for the Southern Province.

 I note, with great interest, that the hon. Deputy Minister for the province is conspicuously not in the Chamber. I believe that, maybe, something more important which he needs to attend to has come up. Despite his absence, I will still proceed with my debate.

I would like the leader of Government Business through you, Sir, to just try and show a little bit of confidence in me by paying attention to what I will be saying for the next ten minutes or so.

Mr Chairperson, in this country, we are under a multi-party political dispensation. As such, I think that we are all bound by certain common responsibilities and must respect each other’s capacities to perform our various duties.

Having said so, I now wish to give a quick reminder to those who are in the Government. Governments are established from above and they only exist where there are people and land. Governments are put in place to ensure that there is order in society.

Sir, I come from the Southern Province, which I think has been looked at, many times, by many political players to be a province of people with less capacity, when compared to others, to contribute to the development of this country. I want to state that, in 1953, when the Kariba Dam was being constructed, 53,000 Tongas were displaced. The people were displaced in order to pave way for a national development which has benefited the entire country.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: At the time this was happening, the country was known as Northern Rhodesia. All this was done in order to produce electricity for the country. That is the contribution that the people of the Southern Province made to the development of this country.

I do not subscribe to the notion of just promoting the development of the Southern Province alone because we live in a country where intermarriages are common. I am married to a person from the North-Western Province. I would like the area where my in-laws are to develop at the same pace with the rest of the country. Therefore, I will not support the sentiments of those who think that certain provinces deserve better things. The whole country must be looked at uniformly.

Mr Chairperson, since the hon. Deputy Minister for the province is now in the House, I would like to state that the people of the Southern Province are extremely well-meaning people. We, in the Southern Province, are not shaken by anything. You can decide to call us anything and we shall gladly accept the name. We were told that we were Bantustans and we accepted the name. We were told that we were stones and we accepted the name. We were told to migrate and marry elsewhere. I did that twenty years ago.

Mr Chairperson, I now want to give some counsel to the hon. Deputy Minister for the Southern Province because he is now in the House. Hon. Sampa, you are extremely welcome to the province because you are a Zambian. You are extremely welcome there for as long as you render the people of that province the respect which they deserve just like they respect the people of other provinces.

I am carefully selecting my choice of words because I know that beyond what we are doing here, I and Hon. Sampa are brothers. He is my younger brother whom I have known for a period exceeding twenty years.

I want to congratulate Hon. Sampa for coming to this House on the 30th of November, 2011 to magnanimously apologise for what he said a week before. When apologising, he said:

“For those that I may have hurt on Friday, 25th November, I unreservedly apologise.”

That is the way to do things, Hon. Sampa.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: However, I wish to urge the hon. Deputy to be consistent in the way he does things. On one hand, the hon. Deputy Minister made a public statement apologising to those he had injured by what he said and on the other he instructed a lawyer, Mr Frank Tembo, to write a letter indicating that he wanted to sue someone who responded to the earlier statement because he was injured by it. I have that letter with me. This is why I am urging him to be consistent in what he does. I also wish to tell him that his apology was accepted unreservedly.

As a way of helping him settle down in the province, I would like to clearly state that there is absolutely no difference between the blood that flows in my veins and that which flows in, for example, His Honour Vice-President’s veins. It is the same.

Hon. Government Members: Are you sure?

Mr Nkombo: He runs on hemoglobin …


Mr Nkombo: I seek your protection, Sir because I am making a very serious point.

The Chairperson: You are protected. Please, let us listen to him.

Mr Nkombo: Let us treat one another as equals. It is very important for social beings, who have a gift of communicating the way I am, to speak to one another cordially. Fortunately, for Hon. Miles Sampa’s counsel, Mrs Yaluma was clever enough, many years ago, to have married a Bemba. I think this is how it should be. We must never, at any stage, bring each other into ridicule. Over our dead bodies and at no stage will we, from this side of the House, nor should anybody be demeaned in a country that we all own. We deserve the respect of one another.

The hon. Deputy Minister for the Southern Province must know that there are problems in the province. We need him to look, very urgently, as I have said before, at the Nalusanga/Itezhi-tezhi and Chisekesi/Gwembe roads and make them priority. In 1991, when the late Hon. Joshua Nalumina died, may his soul rest in peace, Hon. Dr Scott, who is the Vice-President, today, was on this side of the House. The MMD built 10 km of the road from Chikankata Mission Hospital towards the Great North Road. However, it was abandoned after the by-election up to this moment. Hon. Deputy Minister, make yourself a name. Let those who do not know the ...

The Chairperson: Order! I prefer you addressing the Chair to addressing somebody through me. So, please, address the Chair.

You may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, let the hon. Deputy Minister make himself a name.

The Chairperson: That is good. That is it.

You may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Let him pursue the issue of tarring the Chikankata Road. Through you, Sir, he must consider looking at all the nineteen constituencies as though he was looking at Matero Constituency, which is the constituency he represents. That way his success will be guaranteed. In any case, he is actually gifted because he grew up in the Southern Province. Everything that I know about Hon. Miles Sampa, apart from his name ‘Sampa’, is Tonga. He actually behaves like a Tonga.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Deputy Minister should pay particular attention to Monze/Nico Road because it gives alternative connectivity from Monze through to Choma without getting to Namwala. As of now, driving along that road is a nightmare. It needs to be attended to.

On the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), in the province, I see indicators of it being a disaster. If you do not do the right thing, marketing will be a disaster because money has to be placed where our mouths are. In that regard, we are experiencing drought in the province and the input delivery is already late. As a result of this, the harvest will be affected. However, should we be lucky that we yield something, we need to collect that produce as quickly as possible so that we can put it into safe areas.

Mr Chairperson, I want now to quickly deal with ...

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.


Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was trying to emphasise a point that if we are not careful, the indicators are that we may have another disastrous marketing season for our maize crop, going by the current situation. We need feeder roads to be worked on in our province in order for marketing to be made easier.

Mr Chairperson, let me now dwell on Mazabuka Central Constituency, which I am very fortunate to represent. In my opening remarks, I indicated that the issue of governance surrounds just people and land. I am sure that the whole country may know that, according to the Sakala Commission Report, Mazabuka is the only district that has a huge land deficit in comparison to its inhabitants. Although the hon. Deputy Minister is absent, again, I will still go ahead and address the Zambia Institute of Animal Health, which falls under the ambit of the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. I face a huge challenge as regards this institute.

The Zambia Institute of Animal Health, Mr Chairperson, which was built in 1926, was closed in 1990. When it was closed, a number of families were left there to take care of the structures. They have lived there for twenty-one years. Upon the arrival of the PF Government, through the District Commissioner, Mr Shanduka, they were given eviction notices in this rainy season. I am so grateful to Hon. Chenda because he assured me, and I hope he can whisper to the hon. Deputy Minister for the Southern Province, that nobody moves in the rainy season. I think we will be doing ourselves an honour, as a Government with common, but differentiated responsibilities, to allow those people to settle until the rains finish. Then, engage the district council to find alternative land for them to go and settle if the institution requires the land inevitably.

Sir, I speak for the voiceless on this matter. In fact, I am very grateful that the hon. Minister responsible has already indicated that he is going to speak to the hon. Deputy Minister for the Southern Province, Permanent Secretary and the District Commissioner, who, in my view, has been a bit insensitive to the plight of people who keep seventy-five orphans, I am sure hon. Members are aware that people die leaving children behind, and nearly 200 school-going children. To give the people living in this area eviction notices such as the one I have here and will lay on the Table, depicts an act of being insensitive and inhuman.

Mr Chairperson, I submit.

Thank you very much, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo laid the paper on the Table.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Chairperson, I want to thank you most sincerely for according me an opportunity to add my voice to those of most hon. Members of the House that have contributed to the Vote on the Floor.

Mr Chairperson, I stand here to speak specifically on issues surrounding the Western Province and Lukulu in particular. As most hon. members know, the Western Province is very critical to Zambia’s existence. The very reason we continue to grapple with the Barotseland Agreement underscores the importance of the Western Province. Zambia exists, today, in its current form because the people of the Western Province were magnanimous enough to append their signature bringing together the nation of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: It is, therefore, important that we begin to look at the province as such, instead of looking at it in the context of the horse and the rider.

Mr Chairperson, the Western Province, also known as the Barotseland, is currently one of the poorest provinces in the country with poverty levels being the highest. I think, as regards poverty, the only province it beats is Luapula. Poverty is very rife and there is prevalence of chronic underdevelopment owing to chronic underfunding for the last forty-seven years. It is laughable that we continue to allocate such paltry sums of money as K43 billion to a province such as the Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, the challenges of the Western Province, I would like to submit, can only be surmounted by a different approach to development, away from the current one of using the one-size-fits-all model. We continue to allocate resources uniformly using the same model and this has failed us. The reason is that each province has very peculiar characteristics. Therefore, even when we allocate resources, we must look at issues as such. For example, everybody knows that the terrain in the Western Province is unique and this poses a special challenge for infrastructure development. Everybody also knows that the Western Province is endowed with many rivers and tributaries, further posing a challenge for infrastructure development. Therefore, even as we allocate our resources and develop, we must take these considerations into account.

Mr Chairperson, in the Western province, like all hon. Members before me have said, we cannot run away from the fact that infrastructure is poor and rudimentary at its best. As the previous Government, we tried to bring the levels of infrastructure, particularly roads, to acceptable standards. That is why we, obviously, initiated the Mongu/Kalabo Road, which is very expensive given the state of the terrain which I have already talked about. Of course, we all know that, currently, there is the construction of the Senanga/Sesheke going on. However, it worries me a lot when there are sentiments to suggest that there are attempts to re-look at the best way of connecting Mongu to Kalabo, as this seems to suggest that there may be a temporal halt to allow for looking at other models. However, that will only serve to delay that project and I would like to submit that it should be continued in its current form.

Mr Chairperson, having said that, the Western Province also possesses a lot of potential for development. You just have to look at the vast plains that exist there. How much more rice can be grown to feed the whole of this nation? However, because of our skewed nature of resource allocation, our development model does not take into account the characteristics of different provinces. We have proceeded on a business as usual approach and, consequently, poverty continues to ravage our people with poor access to quality health facilities. We still have schools, particularly in my constituency, made of pole and mud. Hon. Sichinga, can you imagine that? Pole and mud schools …

Dr Kalila laughed

Dr Kalila: … in that area in this modern day and era. I am particularly pleased by the fact that the hon. Provincial Minister, I am not sure if he is here, will have to rise to the challenge, being closer to the powers that be, to try and address some of the challenges which we are facing in the Western Province. These particular problems are chronic poverty, underdevelopment and underfunding. K43 billion is an amount of money which is equivalent to a …

The Deputy Chairperson: May you, please, speak louder than that.

  Dr Kalila: … departmental allocation to some of these ministries. The new Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs is allocated K68 billion. That is more than the allocation to the entire Western Province. It is another missed opportunity for the people of the province to see development.

Mr Speaker, if you look at Lukulu, which I represent, the people have cried consistently for the upgrading and tarring of the Kaoma/Lukulu/Watopa Road. This road is very important and previous hon. Members of Parliament have spoken about it. The district remains the only one that has not been connected by a tar road. Everyone knows the importance of road infrastructure and how it makes the life of citizens easy in terms of mobility and access to their markets.

 I would, therefore, urge the hon. Provincial Minister to take up this matter very seriously, especially that we, as the people of Lukulu, have been disappointed. We are disappointed in the sense that, in the President’s Speech presented on the opening of this Parliament, the President mentioned this road. I know that a Presidential pronouncement amounts to policy. Unfortunately, the road does not appear anywhere else, save for the President’s Speech.

I now want to call upon the hon. Provincial Minister and the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to look at this. I wonder whether it was an oversight or a deliberate attempt to continue to deny the people of Lukulu the development which they so deserve. I have been struggling to find the Kaoma/Lukulu/Watopa Road even among the roads that are set for feasibility studies because it is not there. This means that we have lost another opportunity to begin working on this road.

Mr Chairperson, at the moment, the rains are ravaging the Western Province, particularly Lukulu. It rains almost everyday and the road is in a complete bad state. The Western Province is the only place where it will take you four to five hours to cover a stretch of 12 km because of the terrain and the bad state of the roads.

Mr Chairperson, I now would like to urge His Honour the Vice-President to consider a special master plan for the development of the Western Province. You cannot continue to use the one-size-fits-all approach when allocating funds. That will never get us out of this underdevelopment we face. It is not right to use the same model for the Northern and Muchinga provinces for the Western Province.

Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about one other critical issue that is affecting the people of Lukulu ─ the state of the hospital. I think I have spoken about this before. Currently, the people of Lukulu have lost confidence in the so-called Lukulu District Hospital. What is happening is that everyone is crossing over to Chitokoloki, which is across in the Zambezi District. Now, the management of Chitokoloki is complaining about this because the bed space is completely taken up by people from Lukulu. We are adding more pressure on the resources meant to run the hospital in Chitokoloki. Since I did not get the chance to debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Health, I want to call upon our able hon. Minister of Health to look at this very important issue of a district hospital. We have a policy to have a district hospital in each district and I think that Lukulu deserves to be one of those districts that should be considered for a district hospital.

Mr Chairperson, another important issue that makes my heart bleed is that of massive deforestation in the Western Province. This issue is so critical to the extent that I am considering the possibility of bringing to the House a private member’s Motion to try and re-look at this issue. Everyday, our forests are being reaped of their very important trees without alternative solutions offered to replace them for the sake of the future. If this continues, no doubt we all know the effects. As my colleague from Luena debated, we are adding another problem to an already existing one, that of underdevelopment in the Western Province. I think that the Hon. Minister of Local Government, Housing, Early Childhood and Environmental Protection needs to put a moratorium and put a halt to this issue. We need to re-look at it so that we can have a new model of harvesting the trees in Lukulu District.

Mr Chairperson, as I said, in spite of all this under development, you will not believe forty-seven years after independence, we are still using thermo power in Lukulu despite the National Grid being near in Kaoma, across the Zambezi in the North-Western Province on its way to Chavuma.

I urge the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development to look into this issue and see how Lukulu can be connected to the National Grid. This issue has been outstanding for a long time. I know that our able hon. Minister will obviously look at ways and means of putting an end to this matter.

Mr Chairperson, before I end, I want to bring to the attention of His Honour the Vice-President the issue of resettlements. He mentioned that one of the functions of the Provincial Administration is to deal with resettlements.

Sir, in Lukulu, there is a resettlement scheme known as Dongwe which has been outstanding for a long time. There has been no progress whatsoever in spite of allocations having been given to various resettlers so to speak. What is the problem? I know that His Honour the Vice-President, who is an agricultural practitioner and is well vested in these matters, will try and delve into the history of this issue and see where the problem is. I intend to pay him a visit so that we put this matter behind us once and for all.

Mr Chairperson, because of time, as you know I am a very humble and quiet hon. Member of Parliament, …


Dr Kalila: … I do not want to pre-empt my colleagues who may wish to stand on the Floor of this House to speak on behalf of their people. I, therefore, once again, urge His Honour the Vice-President to consider a development master plan for the Western Province so that we put to an end the disquiet and discontent in that part of the country once and for all.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the issues that pertain to the Luapula Province. The Luapula Province was once one of the three richest provinces in Zambia.

Today, this province is one of the three least-developed provinces despite having 45 per cent of the water resources in Zambia. The capacity of electricity in Luapula lives much to be desired. As a result, there is no development that we can talk about in the Luapula Province.

Mr Chairperson, I want to bring to your attention the fact that despite the whole province having the highest number of waterfalls in Zambia, it has a capacity of 5 KV of power. As though that were not enough, the capacity, as I am debating now, has dropped to 2 KV. So, if you talk of meaningful development in Luapula, there is no industry that can be put up with that capacity of power.

I, therefore, call upon the hon. Ministers responsible for that to look at Kawambwa, Pambashe and Kalungwishi hydro-projects. Feasibility studies have been carried out and have revealed that if we developed the Kalungwishi Hydro Project, we could generate power up to 44 KV. If we did that, we would supply enough power to the Luapula Province and the entire country.

Mr Chairperson, I urge the hon. Minister responsible to consider that issue seriously. Once upon a time, Luapula was a giant province. We had Mansa Batteries, Mununshi Banana Scheme and Kawambwa Tea. Today, the Luapula Province is a sorry sight. It is a province which looks like it did not produce a Republican President. When you get there, you would question whether it is part of Zambia or not. The province has the potential to develop to the capacity where we can supply power to the whole nation, but I do not know what has gone amiss.

Sir, in the Yellow Book, the Chishinga State Ranch has been allocated K200 million. One of the workshops for Capacity Building at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, has been allocated K600 million. If we can allocate K200 million for development and K600 million for Capacity Building, what are we trying to achieve as Zambia?

Sir, in this year’s Budget, Luapula is one of the least-funded provinces. So, it raises a lot of questions.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk about farming which is part of the livelihood of people in the Luapula Province. The maize which was harvested, in 2009, has not yet been collected from the satellite depots. I have liaised with the hon. Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock over this issue. The satellite depots can be visited even today to see what I am talking about. The maize at Kota Satellite Depot in Papambashe Constituency, which was bought by the Government at a high cost, has not yet been collected and it is going to waste.

Mr Chairperson, the road infrastructure is poor. One wonders whether the Luapula Province is part of Zambia or it is a province that has done so much for this country that it produced a Republican President. Today, we are talking of democracy which was introduced by a President from the Luapula Province. The Luapula Province has been neglected and treated as though it was third class.


Mr Chitotela: Sir, there are no economic activities we can talk about in Luapula. We are talking about mining, but this requires electricity. Therefore, what kind of mining can be done with 3 KV? Mining in Luapula is being done manually because even if one sets up an industry, 3 KV would be inadequate for industrial use. As a result, people are mining as though they are using the Zambian traditional way of farming. When people are mining, you wonder whether they are mining or farming. They use hoes and picks.

Mr Chairperson, I am appealing to my listening Government to prioritise where it matters most and treat this as a matter of urgency. One economist stated that a wise person would turn grass into resources. So, we do not just have grass. We also have water. The second biggest falls that we can talk about in Zambia is found in the Luapula Province. That is the Lumangwe Falls. They are the least talked about. Nobody even wants to mention them because we have no road network to talk about.

Sir, the development that the people of the Luapula Province have been looking forward to is tourism. We have the Lusenga National Park. All what we need is to restock the national park and everything will come into play. However, it has not been mentioned in the Yellow Book. There is nothing allocated to that national park.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about the feeder roads. I would like to inform the provincial administration that the only way we can attract investment or people to do business in our province is by opening up the feeder roads. The money that has been allocated towards the road rural network, this year, is nothing to talk about. It is very little. It is about K2 billion. This money is enough to develop one constituency only.

I am, therefore, appealing that when it comes to the allocation of the provincial equipment that deals in road construction, we must look at a province as a whole. We must put the Luapula Province first.

Sir, I would also want to appeal to my fellow hon. Members of Parliament that we should continue with the spirit that we have started with. We should continue speaking with one united voice. We must also identify one big project that will push the Luapula Province forward and this is none other than the Kalungwishi Hydro Project. Once we build that power station, we will be able to put up any industry there. Once that is done, we will talk of development. We can even invite the investors to come and that area will be developed.

Mr Chairperson, I want to narrow down my debate to my constituency. During the campaigns, I happened to visit a certain basic school in my constituency. This school has a 1 x 3 classroom block and it runs from Grade 1 up to Grade 9. I asked the teachers how they have been managing to run the school and they said that all the grades are given 2 hours and two grades are put in one classroom. For example, Grade, 2 and 3 classes will be sharing classroom facing in different directions. This made me wonder if we were part of Zambia. Even after forty-seven years of independence, we still have such things. We have had Governments that have claimed to be very successful and claim to have scored in terms of economic development, and yet we still have such schools.  Success without meaningful development to the local people is nothing. I, therefore, call upon the PF Government to look into such issues as we develop our areas.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue is about industry creation in the Luapula Province. The Luapula Province is blessed with a lot of mangoes. Therefore, if we set up a mango processing industry there, we will create employment for the youths who voted for this Government. I also urge the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry to take that as a serious matter. The ministry should engage companies that are interested in investing in that area. We will sit down with them and make sure that what benefits the people of the Luapula Province benefits all Zambians.

Sir, there is the Luena Sugar Plantation that was started way back during the Kaunda times. The PF Government has allocated K40 billion to that project. That money has been approved and I hope that the money approved is not just a figure on paper. It is the money that will be released so that the project is implemented. I will be one of those who will make sure that the money that is allocated to the projects in the Luapula Province is made available so that we can implement the projects. People are waiting because we promised them job creation. We must be in the forefront of creating employment for Zambians.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this chance to debate. I would like to begin by congratulating and welcoming the new hon. Minister for the Copperbelt Province. I wish to tell him that he is most welcome to our province and that he has come at the right time. I notice that even the Permanent Secretary for that province is new and I also welcome him. Both of you have got a huge task to see to it that the people of the Copperbelt Province benefit from you. Let me remind you that people of that area still have memories of two ministers who served that province very well. There was the late Patrick Kafumukache and the former hon. Minister in the MMD Government, Hon. Mwansa Mbulakulima.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Namulambe: Sir, these people knew the Copperbelt and the needs of the people very well. In the Copperbelt Province, I think it is important to interact with the chiefs. These are people who are always interested in seeing that their areas are developed. You have a task to sort out the boundary disputes that exist amongst the chiefs, both within and outside the province. You have to be cautious and take on board what the chiefs advance to you. You will have to do a lot of consultations. I can simply say that it is not easy to work on the Copperbelt Province. You have to consult and listen to what people are telling you. If you are the “I know it all” type, you are going to find it very difficult to run that province because it is quite complex. Everything starts on the Copperbelt Province then goes to other provinces. Even the money that develops other provinces comes from the Copperbelt Province. Therefore, you have to know that it is a very complex province and that you should be cautious and consult widely.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana dwelled much on the urban side and since I have not lived in the United Kingdom and I live in Copperbelt rural, I will speak for the people of that area. 


Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I have noticed that a slight increase in the budgetary provision for the province. However, there are no capital projects. Most of the funds that are in the Budget are going towards administration purposes. The only thing that I am happy about is the increase in the allocation of funds to the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). This time around, the funds that will go towards allowances for officers and those for the actual works have been separated. I would, therefore, request that there should be strict supervision of these funds so that proper works are done.

Sir, in the past, we noticed that, sometimes, when these people went to work on the roads, they used to sell fuel to fuel vendors. Therefore, there is a need to control such situations. There are roads in Copperbelt rural which must be attended to. Yes, there are ten provinces, but I would like the hon. Minister to concentrate more on Copperbelt rural because this money is meant for rural areas and not urban areas. You should see to it that what is going to be submitted by our local authorities is followed. You should also ensure that there is timely release of the funds and the machinery to work on the roads. It is better to start these works in April than October.

Mr Chairperson, the Director responsible for the RRU based at the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, must also take a keen interest in ensuring that he co-ordinates with the provincial administration in supervising the RRU. We want this money to be used in the three rural districts of the Copperbelt Province. There is so much revenue raised in that province, but you will find that it goes elsewhere. We should, therefore, benefit from this K6 billion to work on the old Congo Border Road in Kafulafuta Constituency, the roads in Masaiti Constituency and in Lufwanyama. In fact, it is surprising that where good grade emeralds are, the roads are very bad. Can you see to it that you use this money to fix these roads?

 Furthermore, I would like to request that once the K300 million for infrastructure development in the three rural districts is released by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, it be given to the three district councils so that they can supervise the implementation of the chosen projects. I am aware that the biggest challenge that councils have is accommodation. Therefore, I urge that you give them the funds as quickly as possible.

Mr Chairperson, I have noticed that this year, again, there is no provision for water drilling under the Department of Water Affairs. The department has a drilling machine, but I do not know whether this department will work as a contractor to other Government programmes that have been funded because they have not been given money this year. If the provision at headquarters is meant for the whole country, can you see to it that the machine at the provincial office is allocated adequate funds so that the people are provided with good clean water? The rivers are not perennial and so the machinery must be put to good use.

Mr Chairperson, K225 million is not enough for the adaptation of dams. I would like to see part of this provision go to the rehabilitation of the Chitimulilo Dam in Chief Kalunkumya’s area. If you could just clean and weed the dams in Chief Nkana and Chief Nkambo’s area, you would help our people. 

Mr Chairperson, like I said earlier, the Copperbelt rural is very complex. I also mentioned that most of the funds are earmarked for administration. There are a lot of malpractices because of a lack of supervision by those at provincial level. For instance, people were, until this month, cheating or selling their maize using receipts that were backdated to October. This was happening because of a lack of supervision.

Mr Chairperson, poor peasant farmers, who supply the maize, are not paid. The people being paid are the commercial farmers who supply in large quantities. All this happens because of a lack of supervision. I, therefore, request the hon. Minister and the Permanent Secretary to ensure that this time around, there is proper supervision of people who are responsible for maize purchases. The distribution of fertiliser has also been pathetic. The people who benefit from this commodity are commercial farmers and not the peasant farmers. This is all because, sometimes, officials are the major beneficiaries of the programme, and this may not only be happening in Mpongwe, but in many other areas as well.

Since there are enough funds for supervision, make sure that you travel and clear the mess that is prevailing. If you made a random check, just to see who is benefiting from this year’s FISP, you would find that some co-operatives are owned by individuals. Go and take stock of the people in the fields and you will discover that there are fourteen people in one field. I am appealing to the hon. Minister to change things a little. We appreciate listening as the MMD. You must also listen because if you do not, you will be like us and we will be like you very soon.


Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I have noticed that capital projects have been budgeted for centrally with a small bias to the provisional level. Can you see to it that the Lufwanyama Police Station, this time around, is completed? Every year, we see an allocation of K1 billion, but the structure remains static.


Mr Namulambe: This time around, ensure that the police station in Lufwanyama is completed. This is our timely advice to you. The people of Copperbelt rural are demanding equity. The same way you will give more funds to urban centres, you must also ensure that the three rural districts are given adequate funds.

I am appealing to you to, please, overhaul the Provincial Tender Committee. When both the provincial and district offices are supervising one project, it turns out to be more costly at the provincial office. I am speaking from experience. Mpongwe Council has undertaken projects on its own and has done much more than we have seen under the provincial administration. I am sure that with the new Permanent Secretary, who is a disciplinarian, he will ensure that projects are completed on time and with proper management.

I know the new hon. Copperbelt Minister. He is my friend and, therefore, I am free to give him advice when he consults. I have served in this province as permanent secretary and I am sure that he will find my name all over the place. Where you need advice, hon. Minister, I will be free to give it to you. Let us work as one people. You may be in Government and I in Opposition, but when it comes to development, let us work as one because development is meant for the good and benefit of our people. Therefore, let us not oppose each other. We must develop.

The Vice-President interjected.

Mr Namulambe: Yes, Your Honour. Even you are …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

May the hon. Member address the Chairperson.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I am sorry.

Mr Chairperson, because His Honour the Vice-President talked to me, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Address the Chairperson.

The hon. Member may proceed.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I am urging every hon. Member, including His Honour the Vice-President, to seek advice. “Amano yafuma mwifwaes yayamuchulu”. This means that even the anthills will give wisdom to the mountains. We are free, therefore, to be approached.

Mr Chairperson, where development for the Copperbelt rural is concerned, we are not compromised. For this reason, if we do not see things coming our way, we will support the Barotse Agreement because we know that our chiefs will benefit by way of administration of funds.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Therefore, I am pleading to you to listen to us and our chiefs and we will support you. 

Mr Chairperson, with these many words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to add my voice to the Vote on the Lusaka Province.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to adopt Hon. Namulambe’s debate as my own, but with slight modification. I do not come from Lusaka urban, but Lusaka rural, in particular, Rufunsa Constituency, which is in Chongwe District. 

Mr Chairperson, let me begin by congratulating the new hon. Minister, my colleague, Hon. Chanda. I welcome him to the Lusaka Province. 
I would like to emphasise the point that the Lusaka Province is, indeed, very unique. We have a district, which is Lusaka District and we all concentrate on it and ignore the rural areas, that are, Kafue, Chongwe and Luangwa. Mr Chairperson, for example, if you went to Chongwe, Rufunsa Constituency in particular, you would be amazed at the under development of the area. You would actually think that you are thousands of kilometres away from the capital city, and yet you are only about 50 km from it.

For this reason, Mr Chairperson, we shall need the hon. Minister’s concerted effort to help us to develop the rural areas of Lusaka Province. We would like you to make a programme to tour Lusaka rural and also meet the traditional leaders who will guide you on the way forward. I have no doubt, that my able hon. Minister will excel. As a Member of Parliament from that area, I shall be available to support you.

In the same vein, Sir, I would like to bid farewell to the outgoing Minister, Hon. Sampa, with whom, together, we started making arrangements to develop that area. However, he has suddenly been transferred elsewhere. Nevertheless, I wish him all the best in his new portfolio in the Southern Province.

Mr Chairperson, considering the budgetary allocation for the Lusaka Province, which stands at K41 billion, it is no wonder, yesterday, in his debate, Hon. Mwansa Mbulakulima said, maybe, there was no need to allocate money to the Lusaka Province because this is where the ministries are. He assumed that most of the money from the line ministries is expended in the Lusaka Province. However, we also need money in the rural areas. The K41 billion allocated to Lusaka Province is very small. When I looked through the Yellow Book this morning, I saw that most of this money is for the urban setting. I think that is the problem we have.

I have noted that Rufunsa Constituency has only benefited two roads. These are the Shikabeta and Chakonga Mine roads. The money for resurfacing of these roads is not enough, but I take note that this is the beginning. I hope, in future, being the listening Government that it says it is, …

Mr Muntanga: Aah!

Mr Chipungu: … more money will be allocated to Lusaka rural.

Sir, let me briefly talk about my constituency again. Most people neither know nor do they understand its location. I wish to inform the hon. Members that this is one constituency which lies in the east of Lusaka and is the gateway to the Eastern Province. The road that Mr Chairperson uses when going to his …

The Deputy Chairperson: Do not drag the Chairperson into your debate.

Mr Chipungu: I apologise, Mr Chairperson.

I would like to emphasise that it is strategically placed on a road that all hon. Members of Parliament from the Eastern Province and all those going to Malawi use. It is very vast and borders Chongwe Constituency, Mkushi, Chisamba and, at some point, Petauke west and Nyimba. Hon. Members can, therefore, see how vast it is.

Sir, last week, one hon. Member of Parliament talked about Rufunsa Constituency not being productive, but I have some statistics here that will negate that point. There are two constituencies in Chongwe District and these are Chongwe and Rufunsa. Therefore, it is not correct to say that this constituency is not productive. I am sure this is the information that the in-coming hon. Minister needs to know for him to plan for the two constituencies.

For example, the economic activities that take place in the area, I would say, are many and include agricultural activities, such as maize and cassava production. In the 2008/2009 farming season, the district produced maize 884,000 50kg bags of maize. This can be broken down as follows: 653,000 50kg bags for Chongwe and 250,000 50kg bags for Rufunsa. In 2009, Chongwe Constituency produced 662,000 50kg bags of maize and Rufunsa produced 244,000 50kg bags. In the 2010/2011 farming season, the entire district produced 1,000,000 50kg bags, broken down as 815,000 50kg bags for Chongwe and 487,000 50kg bags for Rufunsa. As for cassava production, in 2009, Rufunsa produced 57,000 50kg bags of cassava and 1,000 50kg bags were produced in Chongwe Constituency. In 2009/2010, 63,000 50kg bags were produced in Rufunsa and 2,000 50kg bags in Chongwe. In the 2010/2011 farming season, Rufunsa produced 669,000 50kg bags and Chongwe 2,000 50kg bags.

Mr Chairperson, these statistics are just to inform this august House that those who are saying we are not productive are playing to the gallery. I just wanted to pick these two crops and show the House that my constituency is actually productive. This is in addition to tourism and mining activities.

Mr Muntanga: Lubinda, tourist attraction!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, through you, I wish to encourage the in-coming hon. Minister to help us because the programmes of rehabilitation of roads and bridges were started. There are roads such as, Chomba, Lubalashi and Lunsemfwa River Bridge, Shimungule, Peketi and Kamweshya. In fact, some funds were allocated thereto. I discussed this issue with Hon. Sampa, but the only problem we had was that if we wait for the RRU machinery, we will not do it. The best thing to do is to give these jobs to contractors. Certainly, they will move at a faster pace than waiting for the RRU machines.

Sir, we also have a problem of power being connected to the national grid. This power just ends at Chongwe which is about 45 km from here and there is nothing in the rest of the constituency. That is, from Chongwe to Luangwa Bridge, a stretch of 200 km or so, there is no electricity.

However, the previous Government started a programme to electrify that area all the way to Luangwa/Feira. I am sure you can follow up that issue, hon. Minister, so that the people in my constituency benefit.

The last point, Mr Chairperson, is the same as one of the points Hon. Dr Kazonga made. Rufunsa is a very big constituency. You can imagine that from Nyimba, when you cross the Luangwa Bridge, up to Chongwe it is one district. Therefore, at the moment, we are also trying to discuss with the able PF Government …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ooh!

Mr Mwamba: Now you are talking!

Mr Chipungu: … to see how we could also have the status of a district …

Mr Mwamba: Ee ma MP aya not, iwe!


Mr Chipungu: … at Rufunsa …


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chipungu: … to be called Rufunsa District.

I think that this is going to greatly help the people of Rufunsa. The population and socio-economic activities have increased and, therefore, I am sure that my constituency would qualify to have the status of a district.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for the opportunity to debate the Vote on the Floor of this House. I will narrow my debate to issues about the Luapula Province. Just like other speakers lamented, yesterday and today, Luapula is one of those provinces that were neglected in the twenty-year rule of the MMD. No single road was built in Luapula during that period. The last new road to have been constructed was in 1988 by the United National Independence Party (UNIP) and Dr Kaunda. We are, therefore, grateful that change has come and with this change, we are going to see better days in the province.

Mr Chairperson, for your information, a few months back, a group of individuals who included Second Republican President, the late Dr Fredrick Chiluba and all the hon. Members of Parliament from Luapula, except for two, Hon. Chitonge and Hon. Mwila, organised themselves and said that they were holding a developmental meeting. Nearly all the chiefs in the province were taken to that forum. The two who did not attend are the only ones who retained their seats in the last elections. The conveners of this meeting told the people of Luapula that they were discussing developmental projects in order to take Luapula forward, which was never the case. No minutes of that meeting have ever been seen and no business people were invited. That is not how it should be. As we turn a new leaf for the Luapula Province, we appeal to the new listening and people’s Government of the PF …

Mr Mweetwa: Question!

Mr Chilangwa: … which is evergreen, to realise that the Luapula Province is one of the areas with high rainfall in this country. It receives rains from as early as October until April or May. However, you will be amazed to know that fertiliser and other inputs are only delivered to the province in December. Meanwhile, our colleagues on your left were busy delivering inputs in August and September to provinces that receive rains from around December.

Sir, I would like to urge the PF Government, my Government, to set its priorities right in the delivery of farming inputs. The areas that receive rainfall early should be given agricultural inputs earlier than those where rains start later. I would like to also inform this House that, due to poor fertiliser distribution in Luapula, the old way of farming called Chitemene is back. The people are cutting down trees and burning them to fertilise their fields because the Government then did not care. When people asked for fertiliser, the MMD Government did not deliver. So, people had to use their initiative. In this era and age, we cannot afford to go the Chitemene way of farming because of the deforestation it causes.

Mr Chairperson, coming to tourism development, the Luapula Province, as we all know, and we sing about it, is endowed with beautiful beaches, rivers, lakes, sceneries and landscapes. In 2008, one hardworking Permanent Secretary, Mr Siame, came up with a project called Destination Luapula which could …


The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Members on my right consult less loudly. The hon. Member may proceed.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, this project became very successful because it brought together many people who had Luapula at heart. The following year, money in excess of K630 million was allocated and it is there in the Yellow Book. Sadly, the project was shut down and we do not know where that money went. The hardworking Permanent Secretary was moved and taken to a foreign mission and a cadre put in his place by the uncaring MMD Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: The new Permanent Secretary did not care about the Luapula Province and the money, I would like to think, was misappropriated. I am asking the new Government and the hardworking hon. Minister for the province to, please, investigate where that money went. We want that money back in the province. We want the Destination Luapula Project to be revived and anybody who was involved in the misapplication of that money must be held answerable because the people of the Luapula Province are waiting for that money.

Sir, I would like to also make a few comments on the fish restocking exercise. In the last couple of years, we have heard so much about cattle restocking in some provinces with large sums of money being allocated and used for this exercise. Why has it been so difficult to find money for fish restocking in the lakes and rivers of the Luapula Province? One of my colleagues who debated earlier said that, at the time of independence, the Luapula Province was ranked third in the economic performance of the provinces in this country. However, it is now third from last and we know why this is the case: the province’s economy had thrived on a rich fishing industry. However, all of its fish stocks are dwindling because most it is exported to Kalomo …


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: … and the Copperbelt. I am, therefore, asking this caring PF Government …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.


The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kawambwa in order to drag Kalomo into the issue of fish depletion in Luapula when we, in Kalomo, rear cattle? I am actually busy urging him to remember that the fish in his area is being eaten by the Congolese on the other side of the border.


Mr Muntanga: Is he in order to accuse us of being behind the depletion of fish in Luapula when he knows the cause of this problem?

The Deputy Chairperson: The ruling is that the hon. Member is in order to refer to Kalomo because he takes cognisance of the fact that the people of Kalomo believe in a balanced diet.


The Deputy Chairperson: You may proceed.


Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, I urge the PF Government to urgently and seriously consider finding money for fish restocking in the Luapula Province.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I want talk about the RRU. This very important unit has equipment that we need to maintain our roads and we are happy to have a unit in the Luapula Province. However, the work culture of this unit during the MMD Government’s rule in this unit left much to be desired. It was unbelievably poor. They had no priorities and were never in a hurry to do anything. A simple break down would take up to a month or a year to be sorted out.

Mr Chairperson, we would like the PF Government, serious as it is, to tell our good friends in the RRU, especially those working in the Luapula Province, that, if they are not ready to work at the rate that we desire them to, they must take leave. If they are not interested in taking leave, the provincial administration must deal with them because it is unacceptable that grading a 10 km road can take two weeks or one month. In the good old days of the UNIP Government, we used to see graders come to our villages and work on  a stretch of 20 km in forty-eight hours. So, what is the problem today? These are the people who are dragging our development. We only have twelve months or 365 days in a year. So, we cannot afford people going for work and behaving like they are on holiday.

Mr Chairperson, I, therefore, urge the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, His Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister for the Province to put the RRU at the battle front of taking development to our people in Luapula.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Chairperson, to begin with, I would like to correct the mistake that all of us make. We talk about the ‘PF Government’ instead of the ‘PF-led Government’ because we are also part of the Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, we are another arm of the Government. If one talks about the Executive, yes, it is the PF. So, it is the PF-led Government, not the PF Government because it is a Government for all of us.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!



Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I would like to adopt the submissions of my fellow hon. Members of Parliament from the Western Province as my own, but with some additions.

Sir, the first the crucial issue is infrastructural development, which is the base for economic development and growth. It is like a slab when you are building a house. If that house has no slab, it will just collapse. So, in terms of infrastructure, the Western Province, in general, has been left behind and it is very important that our Government takes a fresh look at this issue. Like other hon. Members have said, the MMD-led Government totally ignored this province, except for the short time that our late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC. came on the scene and tried to take some development there. However, this good will was short-lived because God had other plans.

Mr Chairperson, when we talk about infrastructure, we mean such things as roads. The Mongu/Kalabo and Senanga/Sesheke roads have been mentioned by previous debaters, but we also need other inter-district connections. For example, Kaoma is not connected to Sesheke. If one had to go to Sesheke, he would have to pass through Mongu and Senanga. Equally, Lukulu is not connected to Mongu while Kalabo is not connected to any district. So, I am even worried to hear that our Government wants to rethink the Mongu/Kalabo Road. My advice is that, please, let it not.

Hon. Government Member: The ‘PF Government’.

Ms Imenda: ‘PF-led Government’. In the Western Province, we need canals because we know that a big area of the province has plains that are water-logged. The province is very well-drained in terms of rivers, most of which are tributaries of the Zambezi River. In Lukulu West, we are talking about the Lungwebungu and the Chinyamalitapi rivers; …

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Uuh!

Laughter {mospagebreak}

Ms Imenda: … in Kalabo, we are talking about the Lwanginga and the Lwambimba rivers; in Senanga, we are talking about Northern Lueti, Southern Lueti and Lumbe rivers; in Sesheke we are talking about the Njoko and Lusu rivers; and in Kaoma and Mongu, the Luena River, which starts in Kaoma and drains its water into the Zambezi River through my constituency. It is from this river that my constituency, Luena, gets its name.

Sir, most of these rivers I have mentioned form flood plains. In these plains it becomes very difficult to make roads or even grow food. As it begins to rain, the way it is doing, currently, these places flood quickly. I was talking to people from Mongu only yesterday because I wanted to have my Christmas in some part of Luena Constituency, but was told that it was unlikely that would be able to get there because the place was already flooded.  So, we want the Government to look at the issue of making canals.

Mr Chairperson, I am glad to know that we have a Permanent Secretary who seems to have the zeal for development and we hope he can also shake up the civil servants there because, I am told, there is a machine for making canals that was made available in Western Province that has just been gathering dust. All they do with the allocations are things like having meetings, monitoring exercises and surveillances. I do not know what they are monitoring and evaluating because the projects are not even there. They just do this in order to earn travelling and other allowances. We hope that, this time, we want to see work done.

Mr Chairperson, bridges on these tributaries are also very important, if we have to improve transport and communication.

Mr Chairperson, in Luena Constituency, people produce a lot of rice, but are unable to sell it due to the long distances to the markets. Imagine, even if one wants to increase the hectarage, it is impossible because of the distance from the nearest commercial centre. For instance, if the distance is about 80 km away from the commercial market, how does he/she take the rice to the market?

The people get discouraged to continue farming because most of their produce gets spoiled before it reaches the market. The use of a scotch cart can only allow a farmer to transport a maximum of ten bags at once. Now, if somebody has produced fifty bags, how many trips is he going to make? I am urging our Government to seriously look at this problem.

Sir, as regards water supply, I already stated in an earlier debate – I thought you are going to rule me out of order, but anyway …

The Deputy Chairperson: Proceed. Do not invite me to rule you out of order.


Ms Imenda: It is because you were looking at me, Sir.

Sir, in the Western Province, especially in the Provincial Headquarters, Mongu, the water supply situation is a nightmare as most households do not have access to water. This problem is very difficult to understand bearing in mind that the Zambezi River is just a few kilometres away from Mongu. Therefore, where is the problem? In my view, the problem is the lack of good equipment which can be used to distribute water to all the households in the area. 

The other reason could be that, as a result of the Barotseland Agreement, which has been used against us several times, people do not just care about the Western Province. Speaking on behalf of the people of the Western Province, I wish to state that they do not really understand the real source of their problems. However, they are hopeful that the PF-led Government will seriously look into these issues so that it can leave a mark in history.

Mind you, the people of Barotseland are not forgetful. They behave like elephants. Once they discover that you are an ally, they will always talk about you and appreciate what you do for them.

The MMD-led Government, can you take this into consideration.

Hon. UPND Member: MMD!


Ms Imenda: Oh, sorry, I wanted to say the PF-led Government.


The Deputy Chairperson: Order! That was a slip of the tongue. Proceed.

Ms Imenda: It was a slip of the tongue. I meant the PF-led Government.

We know that the MMD-led Government really let us down. Maybe, that is why I keep on mentioning it even when I want to refer to the PF-led Government. If somebody has done something bad to you, you usually find it difficult to forget that person.

Sir, as regards the cashew nut industry, I noticed in the Yellow Book that there is no other allocation for other areas related to its development other than funding for a meeting and sensitisation. I do not know who is being targeted for the sensitisation and the meeting. All I can say is that we seriously need to invest in this area.

The allocation of K100 million is not sufficient for restocking cattle in the province. How many heads of cattle …

Mr Sing’ombe: They do not understand what is involved.

Ms Imenda: … can that amount of money acquire because it is so minimal? How many households are we going to help with such an amount of money? I think it is the first time a restocking exercise is being carried out in the area.

Sir, Barotseland used to be one of the leading cattle producing areas but, over the years, due to cattle diseases, most of our cattle were wiped out, leaving us with only a small number. Let us try and put more money in this area. When you look at the needs of this sector, I am sure you would agree with me that K100 million will not do anything worth talking about.

I have seen some allocation to do with women’s development with a paltry K15 million. Is that what we think the programmes of our women are worth?

Hon. UPND Member: It is for talk time.

Ms Imenda: Yes, I think that money is for them to use to buy talk time which will make it possible for them to talk to the hon. Minister because it is not an amount which they can use to do anything serious. We need to show our seriousness to sort out the problems affecting women by increasing the allocation to this area. We all know that when you develop women, you develop the whole country, but when you develop men, you develop them as separate individuals. Therefore, let us put more money in women’s projects so that we can develop our country.

Sir, the Government also needs to sort out the electricity problems in the area. This province is not benefiting fully from the electricity that is generated from the Zambezi River. Surprisingly, the fact that the Western Province houses a major part of the Zambezi River which produces the electricity which we are all proud of seems to have been forgotten. Is it not just fair for us to give the people of this area something which will make them appreciate the value of this river?

Sir, through you, I am asking the PF-led Government to seriously look at this issue of electricity. It can provide the people of this area with thermal or any form of electricity.

Sir, Kaoma District is a very productive area which has not been provided with electricity. Can we seriously look at this issue and electrify the farm land.

Coming to the issue of skills training, when the President opened the current session of the House, he talked about it. There is need to put more money in the skills training centres so that we expand the curricula of institutes such as the Mongu Trades Training Institute.

Sir, you may wish to know that the grass that is used to thatch lodges in Lusaka comes from Barotseland. Therefore, there is need to train more youths how to do such things so that we can have quite a number of them who are able to do the thatching. They can then come to Lusaka to do that type of work and, in turn, make money. That is another way of putting more money in people’s pockets. Let us not just make pronouncements and end there. Let us walk the talk.

Mr Chairperson, we have not seen much of the FISP in the Western Province. The people in the area do not even know of the programmes under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. Thus, I do not know who benefits from such programmes in the area. Let us also involve the people of the Western Province in the developing of this country. When they start enjoying the benefits which will accrue to them as a result of being part of the people who are developing the country, maybe, they will stop talking about the Barotseland Agreement and the misinterpretation that they want to secede from this country. It is not secession they want, but development. They want equitable development. They do not want to be neglected to the point of them starting to think that they are not part of Zambia. Let us be serious with the manner in which we attend to developmental issues in the Western Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, first of all, allow me to adopt the debate by a senior Hon. Member, Hon. Dr Kazonga, as mine. He gave a very good broad picture of what we need in the province.

Mr Chairperson, we all know that the Eastern Province is an agriculture-oriented area. We, in the Eastern Province, will work together with our hon. Deputy Minister who is elderly and wise. For those who do not know, Hon. Mbuzi is being appointed to serve as hon. Deputy Minister for the province for the second time. We would like to work with him to make sure that our feeder roads are worked on.

Sir, in the Eastern Province, we are looking for capital projects in the agricultural sector.


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The Chair is attentively following the focused debate.

You may proceed.

Mr Mtolo: Sir, I thank you for that protection.

Mr Chairperson, we want to work with Hon. Mbuzi to come up with projects which will develop the province. For example, we want the railway line in the area to be operationalised. This can only happen if the hon. Deputy Minister works with us.

Sir, we would like to see better storage facilities for our produce which is currently going to waste. This can only be done if the hon. Deputy Minister chooses to work with us as hon. Members of Parliament.

We are all aware that we have a problem of failing to pay our farmers on time. Therefore, we would like to urge the hon. Deputy Minister, again, to work with us together with the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock in ensuring that we do our best to develop the agricultural sector. Our very able hon. Deputy Minister can only deliver to the expectations of the people if he chooses to work with us. We are certain that this is what will happen.

Mr Chairperson, it is our responsibility to remind the hon. Deputy Minister that we would not just like to have rain supported agriculture only, but also that which relies on the irrigation system. There are a lot of rivers in the province. The water from those rivers can be tapped. 

Mr Chikwanda interjected.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I am so delighted to notice that I have caught the attention of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Muntanga: Well done.

Mr Mtolo: Yes, thank you, Hon. Muntanga.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about the horrible load shedding which we experience in the province. There is no way the province will develop in good time if load shedding continues. I would like to make it known to the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development that the load shedding is disturbing the developmental programmes in the province. Working with the hon. Deputy Minister of the province, I am sure we shall be able to convince the very able hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development, Hon. Yaluma that the load shedding has to be reduced. There is no way we can be having load shedding everyday in the area. That is not acceptable.

My next point is about the Chipata/Mchinji Railway Line. I talked about it my maiden speech as well as in my reaction to the Presidential Speech. There is no need to have a railway line which is not being used. I wish to urge the Government, through the ministry responsible, to make sure that this railway line is operational. I believe that the able leadership in the province through Hon. Mbuzi will make the railway line operational. 


Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I am happy that, again, I have managed to catch the attention of the hon. Members in this House.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mtolo: The railway line will be useless if it is not connected to other networks in the country. Working together with the hon. Deputy Minister of the province, I hope the hon. Members from there will convince the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to have the railway line connected to the main grid. The railway line will only be of value to the province when this is done.

Mr Chairperson, I am sure that the hon. Minister of Mines and Natural Resources is aware that there are minerals in the Eastern Province. Petauke, for example, has soils which have minerals which are good for agricultural purposes. The Government must put in a deliberate policy to attract investors to exploit the minerals in the province. We all know in this House the history of the rich precious minerals in Lundazi. Since I am speaking on behalf of the people in the area, I hope the hon. Minister of Mines and Natural Resources will take note of what I am saying. There is need to put in place mechanisms which will ensure that the minerals in the province are properly exploited. Working together with Hon. Mbuzi, the hon. Members from the province can manage to convince the hon. Minister of Mines and Natural Resources to ensure that this is done.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about issues to do with our forests. I feel ashamed to see a lot of timber being imported from Malawi into the Eastern Province. I think Malawi and Zambia have the same climate. I think it is important for the PF Government to ensure that a lot of trees are planted so that the importation of timber is minimised in the next ten or fifteen years.  The good weather pattern that we have in the province can support the growing of trees.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to urge Hon. Mbuzi to ensure that the Government does not stop focusing on on-going projects. One such project involves the construction works on the Mfuwe Road. These works should be completed on time. If we work together with Hon. Mbuzi, we will make sure that the high schools that have been earmarked ...


Mr Mbuzi: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbuzi: Mr Chairperson, is the young man in order ...


Mr Mbuzi: ... to continue dragging my name into his debate? I need your serious ruling.


The Deputy Chairperson:  The Chair’s serious ruling is that the hon. Member debating is in order. His constant reference to the hon. Deputy Minister’s name is a way of welcoming him most heartily to the province. In fact, it is the hon. Deputy Minister who has raised the point of order who is out of order because he has referred to him as a young man. He is an hon. Member.

The hon. Member for Chipata Central may continue.

Mr Mtolo: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, for guiding the very able hon. Deputy Minister, Mr Mbuzi.


Mr Mtolo: Let me now discuss the issues that affect Chipata Central Constituency. There is a serious water shortage in Chipata. If I work together with the hon. Deputy Minister, this hardship can be reduced. It is not in order for a town like Chipata which has very good water sources to have this serious problem without the ministry responsible solving it. The problem is very serious to the extent that I hope I will actually catch the attention of the hon. Minister of Defence as I talk about it. There is the Gonda Barracks in Chipata. The barrack has serious water problems. The wives to the soldiers wake up as early as 0300 hours to go and draw water. That is not acceptable. This water problem has to be solved.

Mr Chairperson, there is another issue which I would like the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development to take note of. I notice that Hon. Yaluma is not currently in the House. I hope his deputy, who is currently in the House, will tell him what I am going to say. In Chipata, there is the Kapata Hill. Water flows from this hill and goes to waste in furrows. This water was at one time tapped by the colonialists and then later by our first Government and supplied to Navutika and Katopola townships. Why can we not do that again?

Brigadier-General Kapaya: Navutika?

Mr Mtolo: Yes, Navutika Compound. I wish to urge the hon. Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development to find ways of how this water can be made to benefit the people. This is natural water which has been tested. It is clean and does not need any chemicals to be added to it. There is no need to use electricity to pump this water. Gravitational force moves this water from the hill. These are the types of projects which need to b e promoted in this country. This is one of the projects which needs to be supported by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Let me quickly conclude because I can see the yellow light flashing.

There is a special school in Chipata which I am very passionate about. At this school, there are the blind, dumb and deaf. The road leading to this old school, which was built during the colonial era, is impassable both during the dry and rainy seasons. I appeal to the hon. Deputy Minister to take note of this. Money should be allocated for this road to be worked on.

Mr Chairperson, there is a very bad reading culture in this country. This is because the public libraries which are in place are not well stocked with books. Chipata has a library which is in this state.

I would suggest to the hon. Provincial Minister that, together, we should find a solution and restock this library with books so that our young ones can find proper and attractive books to read and grow up with the culture of reading. The culture of reading is what this country so desperately needs.

Mr Chairperson, if you have ever been to Chipata, you would have noticed that the main road, the Great East Road, actually passes right through town. That is one of the biggest roads that we have in Chipata, anyway. However, it has become such a danger because of the heavy traffic, considering the many vehicles that people have bought, thanks to the good policies of the previous Government.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: We experience fatal accidents on that road almost on a daily basis. I am asking the Provincial Minister, Hon. Mbuzi, working with me, as his hon. Member of Parliament, to …

Hon. Member: Close the road?

Mr Mtolo: Not close the road, but see to it that foot bridges, such as the ones we see here in Lusaka, are erected. There are a couple of pedestrian foot bridges which have been put up across the roads here in Lusaka and we need that in Chipata too. That way, we can reduce the deaths that we see on a daily basis.

Mr Chairperson, as regards tourism, unfortunately, the hon. Minister responsible for tourism is not here, but the deputies are. We have, in Chipata, a place where bushmen left their paintings. At the moment, what is happening is that because there is no investment in that area, the tourists, who are coming into the country, are peeling off those pieces of rock and taking them out of Zambia and back to their home countries. We would like to see such areas receive a bit of attention such as fencing so that we can use them as tourist centres.

Mr Chairperson, I know that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who is happily nodding, has been to a country like Mauritius where even a tree is a tourist attraction. However, here, we are talking of a rock painting which was done millions of years ago not receiving due attention. Why do we not have these places well utilised? I appeal to the Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism to take note of such areas.

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mtolo sat down.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I am sorry. I did not note that you had actually given me protection.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.


Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, it is not my intention to disrupt the free flow of debate by the hon. Member for Chipata Central. However, whilst talking about tourism in the beautiful Eastern Province, is he in order not to include that there is a man in Nyimba District by the name of Nkanga who is part of the tourism attraction?


Mr Speaker: Mr Chairperson, the serious ruling is that since the hon. Member is debating orderly, he may be coming to that later.

You may proceed.


Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I also wish to remind the hon. Minister responsible for tourism about the many ceremonies in the Eastern Province. In Chipata, we are lucky to have two Paramount Chiefs and these have very good ceremonies. The ceremonies in the Eastern Province can run throughout the year. Some are pre-harvest, post harvest and others are intermediary. Therefore, the Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism should take interest in the ceremonies that we have. I will be at hand, with the Minister, Hon. Mbuzi, to guide the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity you have given me to debate this afternoon.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, I thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to support the budget estimates for the Northern and Muchinga provinces.

Mr Chairperson, before I get into that, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the hon. Members on both sides of your Chair for the support they rendered, through me, to my elder brother, Hon. Christopher Mulenga, who is bereaved.

Mr Chairperson, further, I would like to commend Hon. Nkombo for the speech he made earlier this afternoon. I was actually wondering whether I should also tender another apology on behalf of my colleague, Hon. Miles Sampa. However, because of what Hon. Nkombo said, I will go further to appeal to the hon. Member for Monze Central, my senior hon. Member for Kalomo Central, my mother, Hon. Mazoka and all the senior hon. Members from the Southern Province to be the first ones to accept my brother’s apology and make him settle in the Southern Province. I know that, with your support, the rest of the province will accept him.

Mr Chairperson, the Northern Province is a vast province and my colleague, Hon. Mucheleka, mentioned most of the challenges that we face in the province. Therefore, the decision to create the Muchinga Province could not have come at a better time than this. However, we are a bit concerned about the amount of money which has been allocated to both provinces because we have a huge task of setting up a provincial capital in Chinsali District.

 Mr Chairperson, it is at this point that I should convey the message from the people of Chinsali to the Head of State that they feel greatly honoured and respected by this gesture. They thank him for recognising the importance of Chinsali District in Muchinga Province. For those that might not know, this is the district where the Cha Cha Cha liberation fight was ignited. This is the district where our gallant fathers, Dr Kaunda, Mr Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe, Mr Kapasa Makasa, Mama Kankasa, Lenshina and Mr Malama Sokoni, the list is endless, hail from. These people sacrificed their lives, including those of their followers, …

Mr Chisala: Na Nevers walabako!


Mr Kampyongo: … to set the pace of politics towards the liberation. Therefore, it is befitting to accord the status of provincial headquarters to this little district.

Mr Chairperson, I am happy with the approach our hon. Minister of the Northern Province has taken when it comes to discussing issues of development.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.


The Deputy Chairperson: When business was suspended, the Committee of Supply on Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure was considering Heads 90 to 98 – Provinces. The hon. Member for Shiwangandu was debating. Can Mr Kapyongo continue?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, my name is Kampyongo. I know you have mother tongue interference.


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You shall desist from that …


The Deputy Chairperson: … because the Chairperson knows your language better than you do.


The Deputy Chairperson: Can you proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I was actually acknowledging the approach that the hon. Provincial Minister has taken in dealing with developmental issues. He has adopted an all-inclusive approach by bringing all the hon. Members from the Northern Province together, from both sides of the House, to contribute to matters of development. I would like to encourage the hon. Minister to maintain that spirit.

 I would also like to urge him to support my brother, the new Minister for Muchinga, Hon. Sichone, so that he easily settles down and embarks on the implementation of the programmes that lie ahead. As you know, Muchinga Province is like a baby sucking from the other provinces.

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to remind the hon. Minister to ensure that he changes the approach of doing things in terms of planning for the province. I have a particular concern, especially when it comes to the Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training.

Sir, I had a chance of looking at the establishment registers which are brought to this House to support the Budget. All of them give an impression that all the schools in the provinces are well staffed, starting from the head teacher to the bottom. However, this is not the case on the ground. Most of these schools, which are dilapidated, are abandoned. They have no teachers. In some cases, there is one teacher doing everything. He is the head teacher and, at the same time, a class teacher for Grades 1 to 9. This is the case in most of the schools. These few teachers always complain about rural hardship allowances, lack of accommodation and other many challenges. However, one wonders how we can support the estimates.

Sir, I would like the hon. Minister to deal with this issue because we have been given two universities in Muchinga. Therefore, it will be worthless if children from the surrounding areas are not the first ones to benefit from such facilities. So, we need to prepare our schools so that they can be the first to start …

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: I understand, Hon. Muntanga, but it is important that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Continue debating. Do not respond to hecklers.


Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to request the hon. Minister to ensure that my constituency, Shiwang’andu, also benefits from the new hydropower station which is almost complete. I know that people in my constituency are in the lowest bracket in terms of income earning, but we can find a way round this issue. However, I would not mind if all the clinics and schools benefitted first because I know that it might be difficult to connect electricity to our thatched houses. So, to begin with, we can start with those institutions.

Sir, I would like to comment on the issue of the RRU. Our roads are in bad shape. Last year, we travelled for long hours from Kasama to Mporokoso. The situation is the same. In my constituency, we have an important historic road called Cha Cha Cha. This is where the British whites were punished. That road is equally important and needs to be attended to.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to urge the hon. Minister and my new hardworking colleague to see to it that our roads are opened up. I have no doubt that you are up to the task.

Sir, in conclusion, I would like to assure my colleague, the new hon. Minister for Muchinga Province, that we are ready to make his work easy. I know that the district he is going to is known to be a tough one, but I can assure him that people there are wonderful. We shall make sure that he settles down and gets to work without any disturbances. Like I stated earlier, Chinsali is an important district. We would like the hon. Minister to take it to the heights where it deserves to be. I am sure Dr Kaunda will be happy to visit that area and find meaningful development.

Mr Chairperson, further, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister, who is our ‘mother’, to consider the issue of our young people as an important one. Our young people in rural areas have been neglected for a long time. I know that the situation is equally the same in Box 1, Eastern Province but, in our place, it is even worse.

So, we want you to ensure that our young people are given sustainable programmes which will make them feel part of this nation once again. Young men and school leavers have no hope for the future. We do not know how these sachets called tujilijili find their way into our districts.

We never used to be like that but, unfortunately, that is the situation that is prevailing now. Therefore, Hon. Sikazwe and Hon. Sichone, you have a huge task to make sure that the youths help us to build the new province. We want to ensure that these young men and women are productive. All you need is to take them on board. You have to make sure that programmes are created for them because they are the ones who contributed to our being here.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to discuss the North-Western Province Vote. From the outset, I would like to pay tribute to two hon. Ministers who have served in the North-Western Province with distinction. It is important for them to know that the people of North-Western Province value their contributions. Hon. Chipungu, …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: ... was Provincial Minister for the North-Western Province for a long time and, through him, a lot of development programmes were implemented. After him, there was Hon. Daniel Kalenga. Unfortunately, Mr Daniel Kalenga could not make it because the people of Kabompo wanted change and he had to oblige. I, therefore, also wish to thank him for what he did for this province. In the same vein, I wish to welcome the PF-led Government Minister, Hon Limata, who is our Provincial Minister now. I would like Hon. Limata to be free. After all, she is a Lozi who is serving among the Kaondes. She must know that the North-Western Province has five ethnic groups which are very significant. These are the Kaonde, Lamba, Lunda, Chokwe and Luvale people. Without her working closely with these ethnic groups, she will find her work very difficult in the North-Western Province. She must inculcate a deliberate policy of inclusive consultation.


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

There is slightly loud consultation on my right. Can you, please, lower your voices.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, I would also like to say that the North-Western Province is a sleeping giant which has been or is being awakened because of the infrastructure development that has, hitherto, been taking place in the area. There are several ways of getting to the North-Western Province. You can get to the North-Western Province from Lusaka via Chingola. The road you drive on from Chingola is one of the busiest roads in this country. In every five minutes, there is a truck or two coming from both directions, carrying rods of copper. Therefore, we appeal to the Government and Hon. Mukanga, who is looking at me, to pay attention. After all, Hon. Mukanga is married to us. Hon. Mukanga, you must make sure that you attend to that road because it is very important. The people of the North-Western Province want that road to be a dual carriageway. This was the plan of the MMD Government and I am sure the PF Government can take over from there.

Mr Chairperson, there is also the Mutanda/Chavuma Road, whose works have now been given to three contractors. Our appeal is that this project be completed. Entry to the North-Western Province would be incomplete if we did not talk about the Chavuma/ Chingi/Angola Road. In terms of infrastructure development, we also need a good road at the border post, through to Mwinilunga, using the T5/ Kambimba/ Kamapanda/Jimbe/ Angola Road. I would like to state that Jimbe is in a deplorable state. During the UNIP Government days, Jimbe was a lucrative border area. It had all the facilities and buildings but, today, it is in a very dilapidated state. The hon. Minister should work with the District Commission in Ikeleng’i and Mwinilunga to ensure that some attention is given to the road that passes through Jimbe. As you know, this is the road that links Lusaka to the source of the Zambezi River.

Sir, in Solwezi, we need a road to Kipushi Border through to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to be tarred. This has been on the drawing board in the previous Government and I do know that the PF led Government will ensure that that project is completed and speeded up. Likewise, you have heard of the high school there. We need Mushindamo Technical School for girls to be completed. It is very difficult for an hon. Member of Parliament to talk to the villagers about feasibility studies because all they want to see, at the end of the day, is a road.

Sir, furthermore, there is also the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road which is one of the roads in this country that provides leisure and pleasure. It provides pleasure in the sense that as you drive on it, you see huge animals such as the Big Five and small duikers. If you want, you can stop for a while to view the game. This road has also been neglected to a very large extent. There are no bridges on the Kafue and Lunga rivers in this national park. It is important that as we establish this connectivity by building strong bridges in order to make the entry into the North-Western Province worthwhile.

Sir, I also wish to say that the Government should strengthen the agricultural potential in Mufumbwe. Mufumbwe traditionally grows very good groundnuts. I think it would not be a bad idea for the PF-led Government to consider putting up a plant there to ensure that the groundnuts that are grown there are processed into peanut butter.

Mr Chairperson, the North-Western Province is fortunate to have huge active mining operations. When I looked in the Yellow Book, I discovered that we were given K44.6 billion. Although I cannot state whether this money is enough or not, I wish to appeal to the PF-led Government to consider the issue of labour very critically.

I am a labour specialist by background. We have a Labour Office in North-Western Province, but the officer-in-charge is, in my view, not properly graded. I appeal to the PF Government to ensure that they consider upgrading the post of the Principal Labour Officer to that of Assistant Commissioner, Labour. Due to the increased mining activities in the province, it is only fair that someone at a senior level interacts with executives from Kansanshi, Karumbira and Trident Mines. This will not be easy if someone is not properly skilled in these areas. 

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to urge the PF Government to consider making specific improvements to Solwezi Town because, if not carefully managed, the town is likely to degenerate into a big shanty compound.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mwanza: It is important, therefore, to use the expertise in the Ministry of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection to ensure that the plan is approved and implemented.

Mr Chairperson, Chitokoloki Mission in Zambezi is very important. You heard from one hon. Member of Parliament how people travel go there. It is unfortunate that, in the Yellow Book, the mission is not mentioned. Further, Kaumba High School, in the same area, has no laboratory. The hospital is also very important in the area because it caters for a very large population in Zambezi.

Mr Chairperson, in the same vein, I would also like to address myself to the issue of the provincial administration, which is headed by the hon. Minister and the Permanent Secretary, is very sensitive. In the policy debate by His Honour the Vice-President, it was clearly indicated that the most important role it plays is to co-ordinate and not antagonise. If you antagonise the four tribes I talked about, my advice is the same as given by Hon. Nkombo.

Mr Chairperson, the permanent secretary was brought up in that area and lives there. However, he should ensure that he is fair. Already, I have received reports from the people of Solwezi West that he has transferred all the Kaonde-speaking girls, ladies, secretaries, all Lundas and Luvales.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwanza: This is not good. I do not know the details. You have to check and, when you do, it should not be supported because this province, as I said earlier, is for all of us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: I do not want to talk about infrastructure development because this Parliament made a decision yesterday to amend …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order has been raised.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member debating in order to insinuate, without giving factual information, issues he raised? These are very serious allegations with serious implications to the people listening to his debate. I need your ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that, since you have not identified or itemised the issues that are serious, bearing in mind that he has already debated at length, you are ruled out of order.

Hon. Mwanza, you may proceed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, what we are asking for is the creation of a district to be called Mumbezhi. I have been talking about this since I came to Parliament, that we need an additional district in the province to be situated in the Lumwana area. Similarly, we should also have a district at Mushindamo, on the border with the DRC.


The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

There is too much noise on my right. Once a ruling has been made, the hon. Minister for North-Western Province will be given a chance to wind up debate. That is the time he will raise whatever point he wants to raise.

Hon. Mwanza, you may proceed.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, it is important, therefore, to ensure that the cries of the people of the North-Western Province are heard.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Chairperson, in my constituency, Solwezi West, the people at Manyama supported this Government fully. The same people have requested me to tell this Government that they need power. They are tired of using candles to do business. They need a bank as well as a post office. I am sure that these are not unreasonable requests. They are considerate and I know that the listening PF Government will definitely look into it. If it does this, and goes to Manyama tomorrow, it will be voted for again. Otherwise, it will be very difficult. I can assure you.

Mr Chairperson …

Hon. Government Member: Order! Your time is up.

Mr Mwanza: I know.

Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I have to speak for the Southern Province. It is, however, unfortunate that Hon. Kampyongo, who has drawn me to comment, has run out. He asked me, Hon. Mazoka and others to forgive the hon. Provincial Minister. I want to remind Hon. Kampyongo that unless he was responsible for what Hon. Sampa said, he is not qualified to mediate.

Sir, Hon Nkombo has already indicated that we accept and welcome Hon. Sampa. However, further comments from other provinces seemingly portray the whole thing as an arrangement and we do not like that. We are people who do not mince words. We will tell you like it is. I want to simply state that I have been talking to Hon. Sampa and he has assured me that everything will be alright. Perhaps, I should tell him that the best thing for him to do, as he goes, being a young man from Kalomo, is to apologise. The late hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo, Hon. Kumalo, was married to Hon. Sampa’s elder sister. This is the background. Perhaps, he only needs, as he goes to the Southern Province, to apologise to the people because they are taking things differently. They do not understand that he made an apology. Once you have said something here, it is recorded and, when you apologise immediately and withdraw it, it is not withdrawn.

Mr Mukanga interjected.

Mr Muntanga: It is not withdrawn. You are a Chief Whip.

Once something is recorded, it is transcribed. We can only acknowledge that someone has apologised.

Mr Chairperson, I personally advised a certain hon. Deputy Minister here not be excited over these appointments. He did not complete his tenure. He was arrested for various issues. 
Mr Chikwanda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, this idea of misrepresenting our people is not good. Since I am intimately connected to them, I am aware that the people of the Southern Province are compassionate, generous, tolerant and very accommodating. Most of the people from other parts of Zambia, who have settled in the Southern Province, have never felt like going back to where they came from because the people there are accommodating to those from other areas. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to give a serious misrepresentation of the people of the Southern Province by making his own ideas sound as if they belonged to the many people of that province? Is he in order?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member will be allowed to continue with his debate, but must seriously take into account that point of order.

You may proceed.

Mr Muntanga: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Our being accommodative by nature is what makes us to be easily misunderstood. We are diplomatic enough to make others believe that they can smile at us even after they hurt us. That is why we are misunderstood. There were statements that were made …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning raised a point of order to which you provided a ruling. Is the hon. Member in order to start arguing with the Chair? I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: To an extent that you understood him to be arguing with the Chair, he is advised to desist from doing so.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: He is advised to seriously take into account the point raised by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

You may proceed.

Mr Muntanga: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. I have to seriously take into consideration the point of order which was raised by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as I continue with my debate. I am a better placed person to know the feelings of the people of the Southern Province because I am an elected hon. Member of Parliament from that area.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Hon. Government Members: Awe!

Mr Mwila: Question!

Mr Muntanga: I want to tell you that …


The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

Could you move to another point, please.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Unless …

The Deputy Chairperson: Proceed to another point.

Mr Muntanga: That is what I want to do, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you.

Mr Muntanga: We welcome the hon. Deputy Minister for Southern Province and want to discuss serious issues with him. He should not be stopped from seeing us by other people. He should feel free to talk to us. One who was in that province some years ago does not qualify to say that I am misrepresenting the people there. Things do not work like that. I want to inform this House that we will continue representing the people of the Southern Province in the way we believe to be the best. I do not doubt their full support in what I am doing.

Mr Chairperson, I want to acknowledge that there has been an increase in the budgetary allocation to the Southern Province. This, I believe, is a good thing. The province has an allocation of K65 billion in the 2012 Budget and K43 billion in the current one. That is a good …


The Deputy Chairperson: Let us advise one another, as hon. Members of this House. We must have big hearts which should enable us listen and digest the contributions of other hon. Members without the necessity of indulging ourselves in the act of debating while seated. I have emphasised that time will come when the hon. Ministers representing provinces will be given chance to respond to the issues which are being raised. Let us do things that way. Debating while seated is dishonourable for an hon. Member of this august House.

You may proceed.

Mr Muntanga: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Before your guidance, Sir, I was saying that the province has had an increase in the budgetary allocation. Good as that may be, I still have a serious source of concern. There are certain things which we would like to see get done in the province which have not been budgeted for. I am aware that the electrification of certain areas in the province has not been budgeted for in the 2012 budget for the province.

Electricity in this country is generated from the Kariba Dam. When this dam was being constructed, the villages of our people were submerged in water. Consequently, they were shifted from near the Zambezi River to areas like Sialuselo in Siavonga. For that reason, we still feel that these people who were displaced should benefit by having electricity in the areas where they live. However, rural electrification in the Southern Province has not been done very well.

Mr Chairperson, we have talked about the Bottom Road so many times in this House. When we were assured that this road would be constructed, everybody became very happy. Unfortunately, after looking through the Budget, I realised that there was only an allocation for only 30 km of that road to be worked on. This road is a stretch of 400 km plus. This is why we are making a big deal of this issue. I want it known that constructing only 30 km of this road will hardly make a difference. I know that the hon. Minister Deputy Minister for the Province can do very little about this problem even though it must be addressed. We would like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to realise that rehabilitating only 30 km of the Bottom Road falls short of his promise to construct the whole road.

Mr Chairperson, the K70 million allocated for the construction of a dam in the Southern Province is not enough money for this purpose. The Southern Province is prone to droughts. The President of the country said that we should ensure that more dams are created. We are looking forward to seeing this done, as we promised our people. If we do not do that, it means that the irrigation development that we talk about will not be undertaken.

Mr Chairperson, under the programme for livestock development, the allocation for cattle restocking has now been removed from the budget for the Southern Province. Perhaps, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock will look into this exercise since it is also dealing with disease control. The allocation for disease control has actually been reduced from K142 million this year to only K50 million next year. This does not show that the Government is serious with what it says about disease control.

Sir, as regards rural roads construction, I think the problems of the RRU are the same everywhere. I have listened to other contributions and I think the situation is the same for the Southern Province. I am grateful that there is money allocated for the construction of roads in each district. The roads in Livingstone and Itezhi-tezhi districts has been allocated K1.7 billion each while those in Namwala have been allocated K1.6 billion. This is the sort of money that is needed to do these roads. I hope this money will be used to construct the Mumbwa/Namwala, Itezhi-tezhi/Namwala and Itezhi-tezhi/Kalomo roads. Further, other roads have been allocated about K600 million per district.

Mr Chairperson, I think that the K600 million allocated to the other districts for the rehabilitation of rural roads requires proper supervision. There is a new Permanent Secretary for Southern Province. We want him to know that we are tired of having Chinese graders which break down easily quite too often. When this equipment goes to one district, it never comes back. We hope something will be done to improve the type of equipment procured for the RRU. The provincial administration may need to involve the hon. Minister of Transports, Works, Supply and Communication so that good quality equipment is purchased. If we can only utilise the money properly, with good quality equipment, our roads will be done.

Sir, we want to appeal to the Government to ensure that the high school in Itezhi-tezhi, which was earmarked to be opened in 2014, should be opened next year because its construction is nearly complete. We also appeal for the construction of the hospital in Choma to be hastened so that it can be opened by next year. I am also looking forward to see the construction of a district hospital in Kalomo. I am glad that a promise was made to this effect. I hope it will not just end at being a mere promise. I, however, have no doubt that the hon. Minister of Health will ensure that a new hospital is constructed and, perhaps, that the construction of the old one is completed.

Mr Chairperson, there is a need, as we develop the national parks, to develop a road from Kafue National Park, which is enjoined to Kalomo, on one side, and Itezhi-tezhi on the other, via Dundumwezi. If we develop this road, our tourism will be opened up and more tourists will be attracted to the area as more tourists will travel.

Mr Chairperson, since the provincial headquarters for the Southern Province has been moved from Livingstone to Choma, the hon. Provincial Minister should quickly find accommodation in Choma so that this allocation of K15 billion, in the Budget for next year, continues to develop and reorganise Choma’s infrastructure to a position befitting that of a provincial headquarters as has been stated. On one hand, we expected Livingstone, being the capital city of tourism in the country, to have received necessary funds budgeted to make it attain that status. However, seeing as it was a provincial headquarters, the infrastructure is already in place so we have no problem with Livingstone. However, on the other hand, what we really need are funds to enable us see a transformation of Choma.

Mr Chairperson, there are various roads that we will be talking about, therefore, I would like to appeal to the hon. Provincial Minister to work with the hon. Members Parliament for the Southern Province because they are the ones who will tell him about the need to have a road from Kanchomba to Siapanyuka. An hon. Member of Parliament is the only person who can tell you that there is the Chikanta/ Chief Muchila/ Namwala Road.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, if the hon. Provincial Minister works with hon. Members of Parliament, he will enjoy being in the Southern Province. Like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has stated, once you are a good fellow there, you will settle and not want to leave. However, if you provoke the people there, you will hate the place.


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, those are the two sides of the province.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Muntanga: You can argue because you have other interests, but listen to a Tonga because that is the correct thing to do. If you want to argue, you will argue for nothing. Hon. Sampa saw that his sister, who is married in Kalomo, is well taken care of and he has asked to bring many more sisters. So, he is doing very well because he acknowledges that we are good people like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is confirming and he knows that.

Sir, I have been thinking a lot about why Hon. Sampa has been taken to the Southern at a time he has quarrels with the people there. The PF Government is not short of hon. Members from the Southern Province. For example, Hon. Kazabu comes from Kalomo and he would have been appointed as hon. Minister for the Southern Province.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Nothing stopped the Government from appointing Hon. Kazabu as hon. Minister for the Southern Province. However, perhaps, the hon. Minister was sent there to be good to us. The appointing authorities are aware of the statement he made and they want him to make good of it.


Mr Muntanga: The hon. Minister should not be swayed by hecklers. Those hecklers are just storytelling and some of them are debating while seated, and yet they have no idea what I am talking about. They will be telling you different stories from what is really on the ground in the province. When I look at their faces, I can see that they are liars and they do not understand.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Muntanga: They do not tell the truth.


The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you.

Mr Muntanga: They will mislead Hon. Sampa in a big way.

The Deputy Chairperson: I made a ruling earlier asking you to move to another point. You cannot be belabouring the same point over and over. So, move to another point. You have debated that point adequately and hon. Members are nodding to that.

May you continue, hon. Member.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, thank you for your guidance. I do not argue with the Chairperson. All I will say is that I have seen His Honour the Vice-President agreeing to the …


Mr Muntanga: … fact that these things must be taken care of. I want to appeal that as we proceed in this atmosphere, the province be taken care of in a very good way as His Honour the Vice-President will be taught what to say in the Southern Province and who will, in turn, help the hon. Provincial Minister.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

(Debate adjourned)



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)


The House adjourned at 1910 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 22nd December, 2011.