Thursday, 23^rd November, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF STUDENTS FROM OBAL TRUST SCHOOL

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils from Obal Trust School in Siavonga in the Southern Province.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR KAFWAYA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUNTE, ON THE HON. MINISTER FOR COPPERBELT PROVINCE, MR MATAMBO, ON BEING QUOTED IN THE PRESS CALLING THE OPPOSITION HYENAS

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I wish to appreciate you for according me the opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance on the Leader of Government Business in the House and the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province.

Madam Speaker, on your left, there are hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition, who have supporters and leaders. This Opposition you are seeing is spread across the country. So, for an hon. Minister to refer to the Opposition as hyenas is excruciating to me.

Mr Kapyanga: Shame!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, in today’s edition of the Daily Nation newspaper, the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province was quoted calling all of us here, our leaders and our supporters hyenas.

Madam Speaker, the first sentence from the newspaper reads as follows:

“The UPND has characterised opposition political parties as hyenas and wizards scavenging on tragedies and failure so that they could find reason to demonise President Hakainde Hichilema and the New Dawn Administration.”

Madam Speaker, we do politics, but do not demonise the President and scavenge on failures of the United Party for National Development (UPND). It is not our intention to trivialise the death of the child in Mufulira who was shot by a Government agent. It is our intention to do politics that project progressive ideas.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister –

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Those are –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You may continue. You are addressing me.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence on whether the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province is in order to characterise us, in the Opposition, as hyenas and wizards.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The hon. Member for Lunte has brought up an issue that he says was mentioned by the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province. Much as that matter is saddening, it does not qualify to be a matter of urgent public importance.

Hon. Member for Lunte, find another avenue by which you can bring that matter up. We will have the Vice-President’s Question Time tomorrow. So, you can bring that matter up then.

MR C. CHIBUYE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MKUSHI NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MR MTOLO, ON FARMERS ALLEGEDLY NOT FINDING THE GOVERNMENT’S CONTRIBUTION WHEN REDEEMING PACKS UNDER THE FARMER INPUT SUPPORT PROGRAMME

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me the chance to raise this matter directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. Since he is not in the House, I direct it to the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, a cadre of farmers in districts where farmers are receiving packs from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) under the Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) System is experiencing challenges when redeeming their amounts. When they go to redeem their amounts, they only find K300 in the cards. There is no Government contribution for them to redeem the packages of inputs. The K300 is what remained from their contribution of K400 after K100 for insurance was deducted. That is the only money being found on the cards.

Madam Speaker, my question to the Leader of Government Business in the House today is: Why is it that some farmers who are supposed to receive inputs under the e-Voucher System are not finding the Government’s contribution, but only their contribution?

I seek your serious indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, is that problem only in your constituency or the whole country?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I am talking to the hon. Member for Mkushi North.

Mr C. Chibuye: I stated that this is happening in every district where farmers are getting inputs under the e-Voucher System, including in Mkushi North Constituency.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Since the rainy season has started, you may file in a question of urgent nature so that the matter can be attended to as soon as possible. The hon. Minister of Agriculture is not here but, I am sure, the ministry will come up with the response.

MR E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MUCHINGA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTUIRE, MR MTOLO, ON FARMERS IN MUCHINGA BEING CHARGED K100 TO REDEEM THEIR FARMER INPUT SUPPORT PROGRAMME PACKS

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the chance to rise on this matter of urgent public importance directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture, who is not present. In his absence, I direct it to the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, farmers in my constituency receive fertiliser from Serenje, but when they go to redeem their packs, they are charged K100 each for that exercise to be done. Many people are failing to redeem their packs as a result. As you know, money is a problem for farmers, especially that they used all their money to buy inputs.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence, since the hon. Minister of Agriculture has not said if that is how it is supposed to be or not.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Muchinga, who is charging the people K100?

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, all agro-dealers are charging the people K100 for them to redeem their packs.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may also file in a question because that matter concerns your constituency. We do not know how widespread it is. So, file in a question so that you get a response for your people. However, you can also engage the hon. Minister of Agriculture so that you get first-hand information about the operations of the system.

Hon. Members who are on the list on my screen, the House Business Committee agreed that we deal with only three matters of urgent public importance a day because we have to concentrate on the Budget. So, we make progress.

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QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

CUTTING OFF MIDDLEMEN FROM THE FUEL SUPPLY CHAIN

149. Mr Kolala (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Energy when the Government will cut off middlemen from the fuel supply chain in order to lower the cost of the commodity.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu) (on behalf of the Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala)): Madam Speaker, from the petroleum industry perspective, there are no middlemen in that every player has a role to play in the supply chain to ensure security of supply of fuel. Procurement of petroleum cargoes from the source, that is a refinery or bulk supply facility, is undertaken through an open competitive bidding process at the refineries or bulk supply facilities at the sea ports of entry, and successful bidders are then able to supply to other suppliers as well as oil marketing companies (OMCs).

Madam Speaker, kindly note that according to trading norms, it is not possible for the Government of the Republic of Zambia to buy directly from the source, as it cannot participate in the open competitive bidding. In light of the above, the Government contracted suppliers in the past to procure petroleum products on its behalf. Those suppliers would then participate in bulk procurement at respective refineries or bulk supply facilities and, if unsuccessful, procure from the successful suppliers and OMCs.

Madam Speaker, in the fuel price build-up, there is a trader’s margin in place to cater for the difference between a successful bulk supplier who participates in the bulk tender at the respective refineries or bulk supply facilities and a supplier who is unsuccessful. Hence, for the fuel to be sold to the suppliers and OMCs, this margin has to be taken into account. However, this does not mean that those who procure from the source or sell to Zambia are middlemen, as the competitive tender is open to all prospective suppliers. As such, there are no middlemen in the fuel supply chain.

Madam Speaker, with regard to the price build-up, there is a trader’s margin in place in the wholesale to cater for the difference between a successful bulk supplier who participates in the bulk tender at the respective refineries or bulk supply facilities and a supplier who is unsuccessful. Hence, for the fuel to be sold to the suppliers and OMCs, this margin, too, has to be considered. However, this does not mean that those who procure from the source or sell to Zambia are middlemen, as the competitive tender is open to all prospective suppliers.

Madam Speaker, you may further wish to note that in October 2022, the Ministry of Energy disengaged from financing and procuring petroleum products for the Zambian market. This policy direction has enhanced the participation of the private sector, who are basically OMCs, in the fuel supply chain, with those companies now taking the leading role in meeting national petroleum requirements. Further, with respect to government-to-government fuel supply arrangements, the Ministry of Energy is in talks with its counterpart ministry in Angola for possible supply of fuel via the Lobito Refinery.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kolala: Madam Speaker, the response is clear. We have heard that the ministry is talking to the Angolan Government to see to it that the fuel price is reduced, but that might not happen today. Is the Government considering relooking at monthly fuel pricing, which is really worrying people because every month, the fuel price goes up?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this very important question, which I anticipated.

Madam Speaker, with regard to current fuel costs, and in the spirit of cost reflectivity, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), indeed, reviews fuel pricing monthly and uses an import parity pricing (IPP) model, which is aimed at promoting efficiency in the supply chain for petroleum products while ensuring that domestic prices reflect the cost trends of petroleum products on the international market. The model utilises the monthly prevailing fundamentals with respect to the foreign exchange rate and the monthly average international oil prices.

Madam Speaker, the IPP model uses Free On Board (FOB) platts reference, which is an international daily average price of fuel that enables consumers to pay fair prices for fuel. IPP wholesale prices are more market-based, as they are representative of monthly commodity price movements.

Madam Speaker, I am sure, you are aware that in the recent past, the contracted suppliers of petroleum products delivered the products to Government depots using their own finances and were then paid when the products were sold by Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Limited. This mechanism was designed to be self-sustaining and have a minimum financial burden on the Government Treasury, as the proceeds from the sale of petroleum products were used to finance the procurement of the feedstock cargo and the importation of the finished petroleum products. However, as you are aware, the Government accumulated huge fuel arrears due to exchange rate losses and increases in international oil prices.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that the fuel arrears amount is a moving target owing to the late payment interest embedded in the contracts. Further, respective arrears owed to the suppliers are currently being liquidated by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, which will update us in future. As I said, the Ministry of Energy disengaged from financing and the private sector is now actively involved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

Mr Mushanga: Hammer!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my brother behind is saying “Hammer!”. There is nothing to hammer. I am just seeking clarification.

Madam Speaker, my colleague, the hon. Member for Lufubu, asked a very important question as to when the Government will cut off middlemen in the fuel supply chain, and the hon. Minister stated that there are no middlemen because there is competitiveness in the manner procurements are done. The hon. Minister’s response leaves out the promise that the current President made that he was going to cut out middlemen. Now, the hon. Minister is saying that, in fact, there are no middlemen.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister responds, and I hope he will not forget the question, a point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Mwembezhi.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I am very sorry for disrupting business. However, this House is guided by rules on how to conduct business. Under Standing Order No. 51, on the daily routine of business, there are matters of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, the Zambia Army shot a person in my constituency and that person is in the hospital. I indicated to raise a matter of urgent public importance, but was told that only three people are allowed to raise matters of urgent public importance yet, in our Standing Orders, that is not indicated. Further, the same people always raise matters of urgent public importance. Meanwhile, when some of us indicate, we are overlooked. Is the House in order to use Standing Orders that were not adopted by hon. Members of Parliament?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The House is in order because I mentioned that the House Business Committee agreed that only three matters of urgent public importance would be raised in a day, since we are considering the Budget and we have to complete the process before January. That is the aim of this Meeting. So, that was what was agreed. When many people raise matters of urgent public importance, we spend more than one hour or one hour thirty minutes, and that derails the process.

Hon. Member, this is not the only avenue that you can use to raise the matter you brought up. You can engage the hon. Minister or use any of the many avenues you can use instead of bringing the matter to the House and waiting for five days or so for a ministerial statement to be issued. That takes time. Otherwise, we are revising the Standing Orders and we are almost concluding. So, the House is in order.

May the hon. Minister respond to the question that was asked.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kafwaya for this important question, which brings back sad memories.

Madam Speaker, indeed, President Hakainde Hichilema promised many things, and one of them was to root out corruption in the supply chain of fuel and fertiliser. True to his suspicion, the supply chain was abused. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning found debt in excess of US$600 million. Where the money is right now, only God knows. So, this question raises many issues, but the promises that President Hakainde Hichilema made are being honoured. At the moment, there is proper procurement of fuel. We have engaged the private sector, which is doing a commendable job, and we will support it.

Madam Speaker, the word ‘middlemen’ is just terminology. Middlemen are participants in the supply chain. Oil is taken to the refinery and loaded onto ships at the ports in Tanzania. OMCs then bid to supply it to the Zambian market. Those who are not successful buy from those who are successful, and it is a very transparent process. I encourage my colleague, the aspiring presidential candidate, to engage me at the ministry so that I can give him more information.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, on 25^th September, 2019, when His Excellency the President was in the Opposition, he posted the following on his Facebook page:

“Ati ‘iwe ka HH’, that is how my friends from PF call me, ukabwesha shani fyuwelo. So inga niwebo ulesabaila fye. I love my friends in PF. Well here we go. The left side is the current price calculation, and on the right is my proposal on why I know fuel can be K4 cheaper if these measures are taken immediately.”

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think, you are now moving away from the question. Why can you not focus on the question at hand? If you want to refer to something that was mentioned before, just hit the nail on the head. Do not go backwards because there is a question before us. So, focus on the question instead of debating and bringing in other issues. The question is very clear.

You may continue.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Chairperson, it was proposed that middlemen be removed, and this is what the question is about. However, let me ask my question.

Madam Speaker, in the proposal, middlemen are called dealer margin. His Excellency the President envisioned that the suspension of middlemen would result in saving K4 per litre. So, my question to the hon. Minister is: What has changed? Is it the name of the middlemen or have the middlemen become a factor in view of the increasing price of fuel in our country? Fuel was K15 when this was being proposed, but it is now K30 per litre.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, my colleague from Mpika always hammers side shots. However, he normally forgets to complete the cycle. He said that the President was asked that “ukabwesha shani fuel? Ulesabailafye. Again, the same people who were saying this will tell you that “Ah! Umwinewapipi tayumfwa ukunuka”. So, it is a –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, can you translate the terminologies you used into English so that we move together.

Laughter

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, “ulesabailafye” means that one is just talking anyhow. Then the other phrase means that when someone blows out air, normally, that person looks away and pretends that he/she is not the one who did that. Some people left a huge debt, but they have forgotten that. The debt we are talking about was not recently acquired; it was acquired by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. The New Dawn Government is methodically dismantling the debt, and people should support it.

Madam Speaker, indeed, there are many factors that have changed. Remember, I said that there is the supply chain and there is competitive bidding. There are several factors that affect the pricing of fuel, and one of them is the exchange rate. Our colleagues left a damaged economy and the exchange rate of the United States (US) Dollar to the Kwacha, which they found at K5, at K23. Surely, they should give this man a chance to fix this damaged economy, and he is doing a lot. So, they should support him for the good of the same Zambians they want to lead sixty years from now.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the hon. Minister on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, let me clarify that the President was already given chance by the Zambian people to be in office for five years. Thereafter, he will renew that mandate if the Zambian people decide to give him another chance. However, is the hon. Minister in order to respond to questions which were not asked? The hon. Member who posed this question was categorical in wanting to know whether the Government will eliminate middlemen in the fuel supply chain. Further, my colleague, Hon. Kapyanga, asked a question about middlemen. However, the hon. Minister voluntarily talked about the national debt, which has increased, not reduced. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is in this House.

Madam Speaker, according to Standing Order No. 65, an hon. Member shall ensure that the information he/she provides to the House is factual and verifiable. Is the Minister in order to not answer questions and talk about debt, which the United Party for National Development (UPND) has increased?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you for that point of order.

Hon. Members are asking supplementary questions, and I have been calling upon the Acting hon. Minister of Energy to respond. As to whether they are satisfied or not, that is another question.

Hon. Member for Lunte, if you were not satisfied with the hon. Minister’s answer, you should have told an hon. Member who has not yet asked a question to ask the question on your behalf.

Mr Kafwaya indicated assent.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister is being asked questions and he is responding. Since we are still dealing with the same question, you are free to discuss with your friends to ask the hon. Minister questions until you are satisfied.

We make progress.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I just want to paraphrase the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Lunte, whose response from the hon. Minister was not satisfactory. Indeed, it is true that the current President, when in the Opposition, promised that one of the things he would do to reduce the price of fuel was to remove middlemen. The hon. Minister responded that the word ‘middlemen’ is just a terminology. My question is: Who were supposed to be removed, and have they been removed?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this important question, which he said he paraphrased. I already answered this question. So, my answer still stands.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, my question is very simple. I just want to know whether the debt the hon. Minister referred to is the middleman.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for this question, but I am saddened that he can equate a debt to a middleman. Fuel is the engine that drives the economy. This is a matter we must take seriously, and I will answer very important questions.

Madam Speaker, the issue of debt resulting from fuel consumption, which was not paid, is serious. We have a huge debt burden partly because of the excesses incurred in the fuel supply chain.  We need to settle this matter together regardless of whether we are from the Ruling Party or the Opposition. Those who created this problem must support those who are trying to solve it. That is called humanity and ubuntu. A certain politician would say that insoni ebuntu.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What does “insoni ebuntu” mean?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, it means that someone must have a sense of shame. When your friend is sweeping your house, what you should do is clap for him because you will live in a clean house. So, let us move together. The important thing is that the New Dawn Government has a big and clean broom to sweep all the dirt that was left behind. This is what the Zambian people asked it to do, and it shall do that methodically.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that there are no middlemen in the procurement of fuel, but there are many taxes paid from the port of import to the landing port, such as the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) fees and taxes that the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) charges which, I understand are five, toll fees, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) gate fees, Statutory Reserve Fund fees, marking fees and direct fees. Are these fees the ones making the price of fuel to skyrocket, since there are no middlemen?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I think, I articulated very well what informs the pricing of fuel, a product that we do not produce but buy on the international market. Obviously, there are several factors in this world, but one of them is the Russia/Ukraine War. So, other than those fees the hon. Member mentioned that are paid, we buy the fuel on the international market and participate in competitive bidding. However, we call upon those who produce oil to produce more so that its price on the international market can go down.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, first of all, I thank the hon. Minister for his magnanimity in stating the fact that there are no middlemen in the petroleum sub-sector supply chain. The strategic intent of the Question on the Order Paper concerns the measures. What short-term and long-term measures is the Government implementing to reduce the pump price of petroleum products given that the exchange rate and the international oil market prices at times are beyond the Government’s control?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mabumba for this very important question. We are always thankful for his wisdom.

Madam Speaker, we should unite and provide solutions for bringing down the price of fuel. One of the measures we can put in place is having alternative supply points. I said that we were actively engaging the Angolan Government so that through the Lobito Corridor, we can, maybe, get cheaper fuel. As to the details of this alternative, I will leave that to the substantive hon. Minister, Mr Kapala, to share. The hon. Member can go to the Ministry of Energy so that he can engage Hon. Kapala more.

Madam Speaker, this is the debate that all hon. Members, both on the left and right, should be having. Where or how can we get cheaper oil and sustain the economy? How can we dismantle the debt that was bequeathed to us? These are the issues that we must concentrate on.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to ask a supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, there is the outcry from many people dealing in various businesses that the monthly adjustment of fuel is causing many disparities in the way they run their businesses. Does the hon. Minister not think that there is a need to review the practice of the Government adjusting the price of fuel monthly so it can be done quarterly so that entrepreneurs are given enough latitude to plan their businesses without any hiccups?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, this policy direction, I think, is being managed well by Hon. Kapala. There are many consultations going on, and the hon. Minister can answer this question when he is back.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, it is good that, now, we know that there are no middlemen in any business. The Government is doing what it is supposed to do to ensure that the product reaches the intended destination. However, is it possible for this Government to look at all the taxes involved so that it can forego some of those monies to help the Zambian people by reducing the cost of fuel?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I have the feeling that there is a narrative being peddled here. The fact that hon. Members are saying that there are no middlemen does not mean that there were no corrupt individuals; they were there. One of the things we did was root them out. The cartels who were in the fuel supply chain are gone. Had we not rooted them out, I do not know what the price of fuel would have been right now. So, we are where we are because there is prudence in the procurement process.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to raise a point of order on the Acting hon. Minister of Energy.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No.65 is categorical on how information should be delivered on the Floor of this House. The hon. Minister stated that there were cartels in the fuel supply chain, who have been removed. When those cartels were there, the price of fuel was K15.90.

Hon. UPND Members: Nkongole!

Mr Kapyanga: However, after removing them, the price of fuel increased to K30 per litre. Further, the hon. Minister has not put anything on the Table to indicate that he removed any cartels nor did he refer to the price of fuel at that time. Is he in order to mislead the nation by saying that fuel would have been at a higher price than it currently is if cartels had remained in the supply chain when he knows that the price of fuel was K15 per litre, but is now K30 per litre?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, you have actually debated your point of order. You were supposed to be precise, but you debated your point of order. The hon. Minister is not supposed to lay anything on the Table because he is representing a ministry. The responses that he is providing on the Floor of this House are from the ministry. So, I do not know if hon. Ministers should come with documents to prove what they are saying. Hon. Ministers have the mandate for their ministries. So, what they say is the position of the ministry.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, let me state, from the outset, that cartels will always be there in the fuel industry, for those who do not know. I wanted to shed a bit of light on that before asking the hon. Minister the question.

Madam Speaker, what is the Government doing to ensure that it has sufficient stocks of fuel? I understand that there are monthly cargoes of 100,000 metric tonnes. I also thank the New Dawn Government for making it possible for anybody with money to participate in fuel importation.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I do not have to answer the issue of cartels because the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, who is very well vested in fuel issues, has confirmed that there were cartels who have been dismantled. The hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa should school the hon. Member for Mpika on the fact that I stand here as a, Minister, and I have the facts. Now that alebwelalapo is not there, the hon. Member for Mpika can come to my ministry so that I teach him a few things. He is welcome.

Madam Speaker, coming to the substantive question, I stated that the Government plans to implement a private sector-led system for bulk importation of petroleum products. We are encouraging the private sector to increase its capacities and participate in the bulk importation of products so that we have enough stocks for longer periods of time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, this is not a political question. Usually, questions asked here are based on what we hear on the ground in all the 156 constituencies.

Madam Speaker, the idea of eliminating middlemen from the procurement and supply of fuel, I believe, was meant to reduce the price of fuel. The United Party for National Development (UPND), while in the Opposition, promised to reduce the price of fuel by K5. When is the UPND Government reducing the price of fuel to K11 per litre, which was K15.50 when the party was assuming office?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwacha for this important question, which makes me suggest that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should, one day, school our comrades on how the economy works. When you damage an economy, it takes time to repair it. When you borrow in excess of your gross domestic product (GDP) and grow your economy in the negative, it takes men of wisdom to weather the storm, get off the cliff and start running again. That is what the New Dawn Government is doing. Indeed, when all the fundamentals are corrected, ably so by Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, prices will start going down. I think, we are on course. We ask for support from hon. Members from the Ruling Party and the Opposition, as this will benefit the people whom we represent. This is good for the country. The solutions will be found by this capable Administration of President Hakainde Hichilema, a man with a vision.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Acting Leader of Government Business in the House is the Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr S. Musokotwane, until further notice.

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BILLS

SECOND READING

THE DEFENCE (Amendment) BILL, 2023

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.) (on behalf of the Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma)): Madam Speaker, with leave of the House, I wish to defer the second reading of the Bill to Tuesday, 29^th November, 2023.

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

The debate on the Bill, by leave, according deferred.

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

The Judicial Training Institute of Zambia Bill, 2023

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COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 14 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – K807,279,595).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Chairperson, before adjournment yesterday, I was referring to the mandate of the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and relating it to the policy statement that the hon. Minister had read.

Mr Chairperson, are the current interventions and policies in this country benefiting Zambians insofar as mining is concerned? The answer is no. For example, we have seen how Mopani Copper Mine has been struggling for three years and remains under-capitalised. Jobs were lost and companies on the Copperbelt that depended on Mopani Copper Mine collapsed. Poverty has settled in. Are the people of Mufulira, Kitwe and the Copperbelt in general benefiting from the mines under Mopani Copper Mine? The answer is no, thereby not achieving the mandate of the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Chairperson, we have seen the concessions that the Government has given to the mining houses to the extent of losing billions and billions of Kwacha. In 2022, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, through the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), needed to raise K12 billion in Mineral Royalty Tax. At the end of the year, only K10 billion was collected, thereby missing the target despite all the concessions that mining houses have been given. Are the minerals benefiting the people of Zambia? The answer is no.

Mr Chairperson, today, the exchange rate is out of control. The Central Bank mentioned that it does not have the foreign exchange (FOREX) to support the Kwacha. Had we got the maximum target from the mines, we would not get such a statement from the Central Bank, which is supposed to prop up the Kwacha. We are now in free fall. The Kwacha is the worst performing currency other than the currency of Argentina. Are the minerals benefiting the people of Zambia? The answer is no.

Mr Chairperson, on Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), quite alright, we heard that there was a verbal agreement. The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development announced the terms of that verbal agreement to the nation through this House, and we have been told that the agreement has been signed. The hon. Minister also promised that he would present to this House the agreement signed between the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) and Vedanta Resources Limited. It is almost three weeks or a month since that signing happened, but we have not had sight of the agreement. What is in that agreement? If, indeed, it is those terms that the hon. Minister came to read out in this House, well and good, but we want to verify that because a promise was made.

Mr Chairperson, there are speculations about what is in that agreement. For example, we were told that in that agreement, the Government of Zambia has a debt of US$1.5 billion relating to the ZRA, the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and the suppliers. Is it true? We need the hon. Minister to allay this fear. We read that in the agreement, the Government of Zambia will assume responsibility for the judgement in London, which was against Vedanta Resources Limited, for polluting Kafue River in Chingola. We also read that the exit clause in the agreement is US$5 billion if the ZCCM-IH terminated the relationship with Vedanta Resources Limited. This is the information that we are getting. However, because the agreement has not been brought to the fore, everyone is free to speculate. To allay the fears, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development should simply bring the agreement that the Government signed with Vedanta Resources Limited here so that we can read it. Are the minerals at KCM in Chingola benefitting the people of Zambia? Let us have access to the agreement that was signed. That way, we will support or condemn the agreement that the Government entered into.

Mr Chairperson, we expect the Executive to implement what we discuss here. Last year, we were promised that the Minerals Regulation Commission would be established this year. We are remaining with one month before this year comes to an end, but we have not seen any steps being taken to actualise the commission. However, the hon. Minister said that it would be established next year. That commission is very important because it is supposed to regulate all the activities in the mining sector and the things we talk about concerning concessions and a lack of revenue will be a thing of the past. Why is it taking too long to establish the commission? We hope that this is the final commitment that the Government is making. This commission needs to be established so that we enhance the regulation of the mining sector.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has a very big responsibility to ensure that all our mineral resources benefit the people of Zambia. We heard stories of the presence of gold in Mpika, and the next thing we heard was that the military had chased people from there. We hear that sugilite is transported in trucks, but Zambians do not even know exactly where it is taken. Where do we stand? Those are the only minerals that we have, and we, as Zambians, must benefit from them.

Mr Chairperson, let me conclude my submission by quoting what President Masisi of Botswana said in reference to the agreement that Botswana had with De Bears. He said the following:

“The cattle headman cannot claim ownership or greater benefit of your cattle.”

Mr Chairperson, he was referring to the situation between De Bears and the Government. Even here, Zambians must benefit more from the mineral resources, and we are counting on the ministry to achieve that.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me the chance to contribute to the debate on this Vote.

Mr Chairperson to start with, I appreciate the New Dawn Administration for increasing the budget for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. Indeed, many people have talked about minerals in Africa, which do not seem to benefit the people. There are many minerals in Africa, but we do not benefit from them. That is a problem. Why should we suffer when we are endowed with many minerals that God gave us in order to benefit? This should come to a stop. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said that the Government would increase the production of copper to 3 million tonnes per annum, and that is progressive. This target will be actualised because a lot of money has been allocated to the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, the New Dawn Administration means well for this country. We had many problems. For example, in Kalengwa in Mufumbwe, where I come from, we saw explorations being undertaken. Out of all the explorations that were undertaken by private sector companies twenty years ago, we have not seen anything. So, I appreciate the fact that the Government, this time around, has allocated K198,718,272 for exploration. I am also happy to note that even the North-Western Province will be explored, and this is a very progressive idea. So, I urge the hon. Minister to make sure that Mufumbwe and Kasempa or the North-Western Province in general is explored because there are many minerals there. How can you not know what is in your country, yet other people seem to know? That is a problem. According to the statistics, only 52 per cent of our country has been mapped. I think, this is not the way it is supposed to be.

Mr Chairperson, I support this budget because money has been allocated for exploration, and that activity will enable us to know what is under the ground, which we do not know currently. That is very progressive. On Kalengwa Mine, I would like to find out –

The Deputy Chairperson: I have an announcement to make.

Whips, ensure that your people are in the House. Remember, we are passing the Budget. If we pass a Vote without people, it is an illegality. Someone out there will watch that.

The Government Chief Whip should ensure that hon. Members, both from the Frontbench and Backbench, are in the House. I have seen hon. Members from the Frontbench leaving, which is not supposed to be the case. Let us not just come here to log in and then go, or else we are going to devise a mechanism that will monitor if you are seated every thirty minutes, which will not be good. So, let us pass the Budget with the numbers that are required.

Hon. Member, may you proceed.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Chairperson, the people of Mufumbwe have been waiting to hear the good news of when Kalengwa Mine, which was closed in 1982 when I was still very young, will be opened, and they have been asking about that. They told me that when I debate, I should ask the hon. Minister to explain the fate of Kalengwa Mine. Had Kalengwa Mine been opened like Kalumbila Mine, the people in Mufumbwe, especially the youths, would benefit and be employed, and the issue of unemployment would be resolved. Many youths complaining of not being employed will benefit when the mine is opened. Even if the area has not been explored, we know very well that there is copper and cobalt in Kalengwa.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue I want to talk about is exploration for petroleum, which must be expedited. Earlier, we were talking about the prices of petroleum products. The question that I ask myself is: If there are petroleum products in Angola, why should we not have them here? If there are diamonds in Botswana, why are there no diamonds here? God has blessed us with the mine in Mwinilunga, where there is gold. Where are we concerning Kasenseli Gold Mine? What are we doing? As we are seated here, people are mining illegally and the people in Mwinilunga are just watching. They have nothing to do because they respect this Government and cannot mine illegally. So, when the hon. Minister winds up debate, I would like him to talk about these issues. I give the hon. Minister credit because he has apportioned money for exploration for petroleum, and we know that the Government will do that. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government means well and is going to do things differently.

Mr Chairperson, the last thing that I want to talk about is the price of fuel. People were saying that the price of fuel is higher in Zambia compared with other countries. That is not correct. The correct position is that Zambia is trying its level best to lower the price of fuel. We are in the middle and there are about twenty-six countries whose prices of fuel are higher. The price of fuel here is only US$1.2 per litre but, in other countries, it is more than US$2 a litre. So, what are we talking about? Let us give credit where it is due. When this Government is doing well, let us say so, but it can do better.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much.

Mr Chairperson, K807,279,595 has been appropriated to the ministry. As I support this budget, I want to remind the hon. Minister of the mandate of his ministry, which is about the development and management of minerals in a sustainable manner for the benefit of the Zambian people, according to Government Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2020.

Mr Chairperson, on strategies, the ministry talks about exploration for critical minerals. I want to emphasise, on behalf of the people of Roan Constituency, that it is high time the ministry took exploration for critical minerals seriously. I have heard of many minerals being discovered across the country, and I want the ministry to take stock of all those minerals for the benefit of the Zambian people. The ministry should take stock of the sugilite, gold, diamond and lithium that have been discovered across the breadth of this country.

Mr Chairperson, I am aware that the ministry wants to promote the formalisation of artisanal and small-scale miners. Our colleagues engaged in small-scale mining have been called names such as ‘jerabos’ from time immemorial, and I want the hon. Minister to give them a respectable name. Those are the owners of the minerals, the Zambians. I want them to be called small-scale miners so that they can benefit greatly from the mineral wealth of this country.

Mr Chairperson, one major issue I want to talk about is the inspection of mines. Last month, one of my constituents died at Chambishi Mine following a rock fall. The mining inspectorate department must come on board and be serious. We do not want it to just rush when it hears that there is an accident. They say prevention is better than cure. I want the hon. Minister to ensure that all mines are subjected to monthly or quarterly inspections so that the work environment in those mines is more conducive. Many mines are being run by our colleagues from Asia, but they are not following safety standards. I remember that when the hon. Minister visited one of the mines in Luapula Province, he was upset when he found that the mine could not even afford to give its workers personal protective equipment (PPE). I want all mining investors to respect the labour laws and mining companies to respect our conditions of service.

Mr Chairperson, K198 million has been allocated to promotion of geographical mapping. This is very important because we have been talking about geographical mapping in this House. The hon. Minister should put in place measures to ensure that geographical mapping is undertaken so that we can know where a particular mineral is and in which province. That will help the Government to plan properly and know how to reinvest or open mines. We are aware that the New Dawn Government, through His Excellency the President, is on record stating that it wants to increase copper production from 850,000 metric tonnes to 3 million metric tonnes. We can only achieve that if we undertake geographical mapping and identify the areas where there are minerals, especially copper. Some mines may have many licences. So, we want the hon. Minister to take note of the licence held by a particular mining company so that mining companies start utilising all their licences for us to produce the intended 3 million metric tonnes.

Mr Chairperson, this afternoon, we were discussing the cost of fuel, and the ministry has a role to play in petroleum exploration. Yesterday, when my colleague, the hon. Member for Chama North, was debating, he mentioned that oil deposits were discovered in Chama. Our late President is also on record saying that we could produce oil from grass. That should not just be a statement. We want the ministry to go flat out and explore areas in Luapula Province, the Eastern Province and other provinces where there may be oil. When the ministry does that, this country will be able to pay some of its debts.

Mr Chairperson, I am aware that K634.5 million has been allocated for goods and services, which translates into 78.6 per cent. For exploration activities to be undertaken, the ministry needs the latest technical equipment for it to discover what we have underground.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I thank the Government for the job well done in pushing for the reopening of Shift No. 28 in my constituency which, when fully running, will create 1,500 direct jobs. As the people of Roan Constituency, we are very grateful, and we invite the hon. Minister to Roan Constituency so he can see the activities taking place at Shift No. 28.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I thank the hon. Minister and, I hope, he will take my invitation seriously and visit the people of Roan Constituency.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Chairperson, I debate in support of this, Vote but more so to dispel some of the insinuations made by the previous debaters.

Mr Chairperson, we heard that Zambia is losing a lot of money because of the excessive incentives that this Government has given the mining sector. There are no incentives that have been given. What has been done, instead, is realignment of the taxes that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government put in place. Let me explain.

Madam Speaker, when the PF Government saw that the burden of unstainable debt had become too much, in a desperate manner and in trying to find revenue everywhere, it pushed the mining taxation to levels that no one has ever seen in this country. Certainly, more than other mining taxes in this world. In short, those measures that were put in place in desperation were too high, and we needed to bring them to the levels at which other countries were taxing. We had to see how much Australia, Canada and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), which are mining countries, were taxing. So, our tax is somewhere there in the middle. The tax levels that were put in place by the PF Government were way out because of desperation. What were the consequences of what the PF Government left behind?

Mr Chairperson, we all know that ten years ago, the DRC was producing 400,000 tonnes of copper, half of what Zambia was producing then. As we speak, the DRC produces more than 2 million tonnes. In other words, it ventured into new investments and started producing 2 million tonnes. However, Zambia produces around 700,000 metric tonnes. Why is it that those investments overlooked Zambia and went to the DRC? The reason is simple. The taxes that these people (Referring to hon. PF Members) left behind were too high. Investors were running away from them. However, since taxes have been realigned, we will see benefits. Of course, it will not be immediately because to establish a mine, it takes a few years. From what we have seen, First Quantum Minerals Limited has invested US$1.3 billion but, previously, it was threatening to leave Zambia. Barloworld has invested US$2 billion, and it, too, and many other companies were threatening to leave Zambia. Had we remained on the trajectory that our colleagues in the PF left us, by today, we would have had no single mining company in this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: The companies would all have left.

Mr Chairperson, let me give an example. Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) has been struggling from the time of the PF because of the tax regime. Mopani Copper Mines has been struggling from the time of the PF because of excessive taxation. This is what we have corrected. Members of the PF should not pretend to be champions of the mining sector. They are champions of destroying the mining sector.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, members of the PF are saying that they are the champions of the mining sector, but what they should be saying is that they are champions of destroying the mining sector.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, members of the PF ruled this country for ten years. Can they give us one example of a new mine that was opened under their regime? Which one? Zero.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Under President Mwanawasa and President Rupiah Banda, new mines were opened.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: Under the PF Government, zero mines were opened.

Mr Kasandwe: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Dr Musokotwane: What was the cause of all this? Mining taxes.

Mr Kalobo: On a serious point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, take note of what the hon. Minister is saying and then you will rebut when it is your turn to debate.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us allow debate to flow.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, the only thing that members of the PF can boast of is destroying the mining sector in this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: It is time for them to sit back and watch us revive the mining sector because they failed to do anything in ten years. A colleague over there quoted the President of Botswana and said that it is time we owned the mines because, then, we would benefit more. Yes, I agree, but they were given the chance, and we know that by the time they were leaving, Mopani Copper Mines was 100 per cent owned by the Government. KCM was also owned by the Government. Are they proud of the record that they owned these mines, but they did this country no good in mining? Zero! If I were them, I would simply apologise to the Zambian people for misruling this country …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … and destroying the mining sector.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on Vote 14, Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. I rise to support this Vote on behalf of the good people of Wusakile.

Mr Chairperson, in the previous Budget Speech, the Government committed to producing 3 million metric tonnes of copper. However, the production of copper is now projected at 650,000 metric tonnes, from 850,000 metric tonnes, meaning that production has gone down. So, I do not know what magic will be applied for us to reach the 3 million metric tonnes.

Mr Chairperson, the extractive industry holds the key to Zambia’s development. We should think of how a common Zambian can benefit from the minerals underground. The foreigners knew about the presence of our minerals a long time ago and started extracting them before Independence.

Mr Chairperson, in 1968, we nationalised the mines and the Mulungushi Reforms gave 51 per cent ownership in major industries to Zambians. In 2000, we saw billions of Dollars being poured into private mines. We saw the construction of four huge smelters, one in the North-Western Province and three in Chingola, Chambeshi and Mufulira on the Copperbelt. The question that I ask is: What has been the net profit on the Zambian economy? Nothing.

Mr Amutike: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Chairperson, we are now in 2023.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Hon. Amutike!

You will rebut later so that we allow debate to flow.

Hon. Member for Wusakile, you may continue.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Chairperson, we are in 2023, but we have continued on the trajectory of giving incentives. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning stated that no incentives have been given. However, the Mineral Royalty Tax is deductable. That is an incentive. Why should we have the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development when we cannot implement policies that can help us to fund developmental projects using our mineral wealth?

Mr Chairperson, a pronouncement was made on the setting up of a new copper smelter by the Zambia National Service (ZNS) through a US$15 foreign direct investment, and this would make one think that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is sleeping on duty.

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

Mr Kalobo: Yes, you can question.

Laughter

Mr Kalobo: Mr Chairperson, the House may wish to note that the four new smelters are smelting concentrate from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) because our production has gone down. We have no capacity to feed the four smelters. So, it is shocking that our colleagues expect to see different results when they are doing the same thing that was done in the past. How can that happen?

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Kalobo: Yes, this policy is being repeated. Is there a research report that is going to show what made us fail when we had the same policy and what improvements we are making?

Mr Chairperson, I was shocked to hear the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning give an example of the DRC, yet we are doing better than it. The DRC produces 2.4 million metric tonnes from fifty-five mines while we produce 850,000 metric tonnes from thirteen mines. Mathematically, this will tell you that we are doing better than the DRC. So, how does the hon. Minister give an example of the DRC?

Mr Chairperson, who does not know that value addition to copper, manganese, sugilite, emerald and diamonds is what can make us expand our manufacturing base, create the much-needed jobs and put more money in people’s pockets? That was the vision of a pro-poor party, the PF, which I belong to, …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: ... when it set up the Zambia Gold Company. Why is the New Dawn Government going in circles on the home-grown economic transformation agenda by using the ZNS?

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Lunte, ...

Mr Kafwaya: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: … what is the problem?

Mr Kafwaya: My problem are these hon. Members (Referring to hon. UPND Members).

The Deputy Chairperson: Why do you like disorderliness? May you resume your seat.

Hon. Member for Wusakile, you may continue.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Chairperson, I was asking why the New Dawn Government is going in circles on the home-grown transformation agenda and using the ZNS as a praise singer in the mining sector? Are the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holding (ZCCM-IH) and the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) not in better places to take charge of value addition industries in the mining sector? Why is the US$1 billion Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) deal sounding like a promissory note and devoid of hope for a turnaround strategy? Why is the shareholding still 20 per cent?

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about geological mapping. The British, who colonised us, carried out geological mapping in 1919. This is why they are camped in Kalumbila and Lufwanyama, mining emerald, gold, copper and cobalt. The Chinese are mining sugilite, nickel and manganese in Maamba, Mansa, Pensulo and Mkushi, but none of these minerals are being processed locally.

Mr Chairperson, for this budget to be meaningful, the hon. Minister should set up value addition industries in the mining sector, not undertake exploration. We are wasting money. Our twin challenge of poverty and unemployment can end in this country if the Government created opportunities for businesses in the mining sector. That is the magic.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Mr Chairperson, the people of Mongu want to put it on record that they support Vote 14.

Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and his team for showing the Zambian people how to run the mining sector. We know that the mining sector was almost dead when the New Dawn Government took over power. Some mining companies were packing their bags so that they could leave. However, the New Dawn Government and the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development have revitalised the mines on the Copperbelt. There is fresh air on the Copperbelt because mining companies are coming up. There are new investors who want to begin mining in Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines, and Vedanta Resources Limited is back. So, I thank the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development for showing the champions of distraction how to operate the mines. The United Party for National Development (UPND), the New Dawn Government, is a champion of fixing the economy. The economy of Zambia has been fixed through the mining sector.

Mr Chairperson, I note the increase in the budget for exploration, and I encourage the Government to establish mines in other provinces where there are none. Exploration should be undertaken, especially in the Western Province. In Botswana, there is sand and there are diamonds. In Namibia, there is sand and there are also diamonds. In the Western Province, there is sand, but diamonds have not just been discovered there yet. So, the ministry should explore Sikongo and Mongu in the Western Province so that new mines can be established. We need to spend on exploration because if exploration is not undertaken, we will not discover new minerals, unlike what the agent of destroying the economy talked about.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about organising small-scale mining, and that is a good thing. In the past, the previous Government tolerated illegal miners. However, the New Dawn Government wants to do things in a transparent, organised, methodical and meticulous way. Since it is transparent, it wants to organise the informal sector and ensure that the people informally mining are brought into the mainstream of the economy so that they can pay the right taxes thereby increasing the tax base, and I commend the hon. Minister for that.

Mr Chairperson, the establishment of a minerals regulator is a step in the right direction. I commend the hon. Minister for that because I know that there have been complaints from the citizens about how mining companies have been under-declaring what has been mined. We think and believe that when the mining regulator is established, that will be a thing of the past. The mining regulator will also be enforcing the mining regulations because safety is very important in the mining sector. We should ensure that our people who go underground to mine copper do that in a safe manner, and that environmental laws are adhered to.

Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the people of Zambia, I thank the hon. Minister for revitalising the mining sector on the Copperbelt. Employment is being created and new companies are investing on the Copperbelt. One can see that there is a new dawn on the Copperbelt. The people who would sit on pavements, looking for jobs, are now lining up at the new companies with application letters because there is hope that they will be employed.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I support Vote 14 and commend the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development for being exemplary in managing the mining sector.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Mr Chairperson, as I support Vote 14, I would like to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister certain issues that he has to improve on.

Mr Chairperson, people have been registering co-operatives. I come from a rural constituency where there are many co-operatives. Some youths who formed co-operatives carry out mining activities. So, the idea of youths forming co-operatives is very good, and it is being actualised. Some youths live in areas, for instance, Mkushi, where there are many mining activities. However, the co-operatives that were created are comprised of people who are not Mkushi residents. So, the ministry should scrutinise the co-operatives being approved to undertake mining in rural constituencies. Where are they coming from? Who are the people who formed the co-operatives? The ministry should ensure that the people from rural constituencies also benefit and are a priority.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the issue of linkages of line ministries. I feel, there is a gap between the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, and it needs to be bridged. Further, the two ministries need to agree on how to conduct their operations because they usually operate in the same areas. For example, in the area where the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development wants to conduct its operations, there is also an interest from the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister to create synergies to enable the two ministries to conduct operations in an appropriate manner.

Mr Chairperson, let us also sensitise traditional leaders about mining because they are custodians of the areas where mining activities are undertaken. So, let us bring traditional leaders on board and ensure that they understand that what is theirs is on top and what is under is the preserve of the Republican President because when we leave them out, there will be many conflicting interests.

Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about Kashime Mine. The hon. Minister promised that the mine would be operationalised in the first quarter of the year, but we are remaining with a month before the year comes to an end. When the hon. Minister winds up debate, he should state why First Quantum Minerals (FQM) has not yet opened the mine in Mkushi, yet a promise was made on the Floor of this House that it would be opened by the end of this year. I also ask the hon. Minister to broaden the base of mining bureaus in a few strategic points so that they can carry out the much-needed operations that small mining entities require from the ministry.

With those few words, I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Minister for Copperbelt Province (Mr Matambo): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the chance, on behalf of the people of Copperbelt Province, to add my voice to the debate.

Mr Chairperson, to start with, I appreciate the input of the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, looking at where the Copperbelt was when the United Party of National Development (UPND) Government came into power. I expected our colleagues who used to run the country to apologise and not behave like someone who was happy to see the people of the Copperbelt suffer. The mess we are trying to clean – The issues we are trying to sort out –

Mr Kafwaya: The word ‘mess’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Matambo: I withdraw it, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, the problems we are trying to sort out, to do with the Copperbelt, were born in the previous regime. During the Patriotic Front (PF) regime, like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said, thousands of people lost employment. On 20^th October, 2020, more than 8,000 people lost their jobs and, after six months, 400 more employees lost their jobs. Hundreds of contracts were also affected and contractors lost their contracts. As a result, besides the workers who used to work for Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), those who used to work for private contractors also lost their jobs. In short, because of the chain reaction of what happened, more than 20,000 workers lost their jobs during the PF regime. So, I expected our colleagues to apologise to the people of Copperbelt and to repent.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Matambo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema have a special place in the hearts of the people of Copperbelt, looking at what has been done in all the sectors, in trying to take the Copperbelt to where it is supposed to be.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Copperbelt started voting for the PF Party in 2006. They voted for it in 2008, 2011, 2015 and 2016. However, on 12^th August, 2021, they said that enough was enough, and they do not change anyhow. The PF Government lost on the Copperbelt on 12^th August, 2021, because of what it did to the miners. So, its members should learn to apologise.

Mr Chairperson, Vedanta Resources Limited is supposed to pay contractors US$250 million, a debt that the PF Government left. The PF Government was not paying contractors, resulting in many companies closing. Many contractors had got loans from banks, and that attracted a lot of interest. So, I do not expect our colleagues to continue being stubborn like a stone. I expect them to appreciate that His Excellency President Hakainde …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matambo: ... negotiated with Vedanta Resources Limited. This is what they are supposed to do. Every day, they want to push back against what we are trying to do. However, our eyes will still be on the ball. Our colleagues were saying that the agreement was not signed, but it was signed two weeks ago. US$250 million will be paid. The Vedanta Resources Limited of yesterday, under the PF Government, is not that of today, under President Hakainde Hichilema.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matambo: Mr Chairperson, the Vedanta Resources Limited under President Mwanawasa behaved, contractors and employees were paid, and the mine was operating because President Mwanawasa was serious. We have another focused and serious President. So, I assure you that Vedanta Resources Limited will behave and fulfil its promises. The US$250 million which is about to be paid is because of the PF Government.

Mr Chairperson, cadreism also went into the mines. Some people would look at the face of the person when giving contracts. Many people lost employment. Even though we do not debate ourselves, I will mention a few names. Several politically inclined people who were not members of the PF like Hon. Chipoka Mulenga lost employment. One would only be given a contract when one had a green T-shirt. That is not currently happening.

Mr Chairperson, the Mining Cadastre Department had to be cleaned by the hon. Minister and His Excellency the President. How do you expect one person – Nangu kukwata umufulo ukuitemwa.

Hon. Member: Meaning?

Mr Matambo: Meaning ‘selfishness’.

Mr Chairperson, people had fifty, forty or thirty licences, and most of them were in the Government. I expect our colleagues to humble themselves, this time around, and apologise to Copperbelt residents.

Mr Chairperson, the road network in mining towns, such as Chililabombwe and Chingola, on the Copperbelt, a province that is the engine of the economy of the country, is as if the country was at war. His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema has realised that for the mines to do well, we need to have a good road network. As I speak, the road between Chingola and Chililabombwe is at 99.99 per cent because we want a good road network in the mining towns.

Mr Chairperson, the so-called Chibuluma Road in Kitwe was not worked on under the PF regime. As I speak, the contractor is on site working on the road. In short, insoni ebuntu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matambo: I expect our colleagues to tone down and wait for His Excellency the President to fix what they destroyed.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Mr Chairperson, I thank all the debaters.

Mr Chairperson, I think, Parliament is a good platform to show us the calibre of certain leaders and why the economy collapsed before the United Party for National Development (UPND) took over. The simplistic debates of certain hon. Members on why the country is not benefitting from its mineral wealth –

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, we do not debate ourselves.

Mr Kabuswe: I am responding, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us –

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, the simplistic view of certain debaters –

Mr Chairperson, I am referring to some of the points that were raised. You even know why this economy collapsed. We now have a focused leader who wants to do things the correct way. The hon. Member for Mufulira talked about why we do not have the minerals commission. It is because imwe mwalesalula. Ifwe tuleipika, natutekanya bwino bwino and we are doing the right thing.

Hon. Member: Meaning?

Mr Kabuswe: Meaning that our colleagues were doing things in a haphazard manner while we are doing things in a methodical way. When the minerals commission is established, it will be a proper commission. Two days ago, a committee sat and it was chaired –

Mr Kalobo: Policy.

Mr Kabuswe: I already presented the policy statement yesterday. You were not there. That is why you do not know what you do in Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, two days ago, a committee sat to approve a document concerning the minerals commission. The document will be tabled before Cabinet and during this Meeting. We took time to cook it well so that it addresses the many confusions that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government left.

Mr Chairperson, somebody asked why we have not announced who the equity partner for Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) is. We have, and the legal processes are ongoing. We had to remove the provisional liquidator, the confusion that the PF Government left. The PF Government put a liquidator who allowed cadres to give orders to managers at KCM, and that is why we are saying that the nkongole that Vedanta Resources Limited is paying is as a result of the misbehaviour of the previous liquidator because people were supplying umwela, …

Mr Kapyanga: Language!

Mr Kabuswe: … meaning that they were supplying nothing.

Mr Chairperson, the New Dawn Government is restoring order in the mining sector. We, as a country, are very rich, yet we are not seeing those riches. Why? The minerals are in the ground. Our colleagues were allocating K2 million for exploration, but look at a serious Government; from K15 million last year, we have jumped to K168 million, and that is a declaration of intent, but even that money is still not enough. We need more money for exploration.

Mr Chairperson, somebody said that this country was explored in the 1900s, but the technology that is there now is very different. In the past, the so-called slag dumps and tailings were useless because there was no technology. Since technology has now improved, there is a reclamation of sites. A small clique was actually benefitting from the Nkana Slag Dump (Black Mountain). If I show you a report of how many people under the New Dawn have benefitted from the Black Mountain, you will be shocked …

Hon. PF Member: Question!

Mr Kabuswe: … to see how a certain small family was stealing from it.

Mr Kabuswe drank water.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Water, water!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, people are talking about the fact that we have given –

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, withdraw the word ‘stealing’. It is unparliamentary.

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, I replace it with ‘taking without permission’.

Laughter

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, people are talking about the fact that we have given mining companies concessions, but the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning clarified what we have done. I was waiting for the hon. Member for Roan to talk about the reopening of Shaft No. 28, which he did at the end of his debate, and I was very happy. Our colleagues could not open Shaft No. 28 because of the policy environment. The previous taxation regime could not allow them to do that. The Government decided to make Mineral Royalty Tax deductible. The money that was saved was used to open the shaft, and 1,500 direct jobs were created, not bu casual.

Mr Kasandwe interjected.

Mr Kabuswe: My friend, one plus one is equal to two, if you did not know.

Mr Chairperson, because of the policy and tax environments that we have created, Lumwana Copper Mine is investing US$2 billion in mine expansion, and that means more jobs and taxes.

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: The money has come, Mr Chairperson. Forget about those comments from people who do not understand anything.

Mr Chairperson, US$1.1 billion is coming into the country. KoBold Metals in Chililabombwe has pledged US$150 million in a mine called Mingomba, which is earmarked to be one of the biggest mines.

Mr Chairperson, on Mopani Copper Mines, I do not want to pre-empt anything, but I am very excited about what we have negotiated for, and we will give the country the details at the right time. The people of Copperbelt are going to be happy.

Mr Chairperson, the other point I want to make is that when we took over, mining was being done in court and lawyers were general managers and shift bosses. KCM, Kansenseli Gold Mine and Kalengwa Mine were mining in court and fighting. This Government decided that those matters be sorted out of court and sat round the table, and that is why you are seeing the resuscitation of those mines. So, we sorted out the KCM issue out of court. The lies that hon. Members are listening to – We are hon. Members. Let us not be misinformed. The hon. Member for Mufulira and I talk. However, the Government is not going to lose any money in that agreement.

Mr Chairperson, we want to revive Chingola. Maybe, we should tell the people of Chingola and Chililabombwe that according to members of the PF, suppliers must not be paid. Maybe, the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province should tell the people that according to members of the PF, they must die of poverty and hunger. However, the UPND Government and Mr Hakainde Hichilema are paying all contractors and suppliers, reviving jobs for miners and increasing their salaries. We will increase salaries even if members of the PF say we should not.

Mr Chairperson, we are reviving the mining sector. So, as hon. Members argue, they should not be simplistic. There is science around mining. When there is a mineral underground, I have to understand the science of mining it. I have to map or explore the area and employ the correct mining method. The PF Government went to sleep and did not explore, map or understand the science of mining. That is not what we are doing. We are methodical. We know what we are doing and we are focused.

Mr Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members who debated.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 14 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – K887,297,595).

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 140, Programme 2108 – Mineral Resources Development and Management – K198,718,272, Sub-programme 001 – Geological Mapping – K196,223,272. On page 32 of the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the provision for this programme is K160 million, but in the Budget that the hon. Minister’s presented, it is K196,223,272, a difference of K36 million. Can the hon. Minister clarify which figure is correct between Hon. Dr Musokotwane’s figure and his?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, I need clarity from the hon. Member on what he is referring to. The figure I stated is in the Yellow Book. Where is the other one coming from?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Lunte, we are deeply dissecting the Vote and your guide is the Yellow Book. So, your argument should be based on the Yellow Book. The hon. Minister does not know what you are referring to. Your clarification on the Vote should be based on the Yellow Book. That will help.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Chairperson, the Budget Speech was laid on the Table of the House and all hon. Members, including the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, has it. The Yellow Book was also laid on the Table of the House and we all have it.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, you had the opportunity, for two weeks, to look at the Budget Speech. We are now considering the Yellow Book. So, any clarity you are seeking should be based on the Yellow Book.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Chairperson, the figure on page 140 of the Yellow Book for Programme 2108, Mineral Resources Development and Management, Sub-Programme 001, Geological Mapping, is K196,223,272. The amount which the ministry has provided for this programme in 2024 is K196,223,272. My question was: Which figure is correct between this figure and K160 million that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said has been provided for geological mapping under Economic Affairs? There is a difference of K36 million between the figures the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning mentioned.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, I do not know why you are referring to the Budget Speech, which you had an opportunity of two weeks to look at. We are now looking at the Yellow Book. So, just stick to the Yellow Book. Any question that you want to ask the hon. Minister should be based on the Yellow Book. Someone might also refer to the President’s Speech, but the time for considering the speech passed. So, any question has to be based on the Yellow Book because that is the one that the hon. Minister has.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Chairperson, it means that I now have to seek clarification from you. Is the Budget Speech relevant to the Yellow Book or not?

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: I just want clarification, that is all.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, I have guided. I am here to guide and regulate business. I guided you to stick to the Yellow Book. The hon. Minister will respond.

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, the answer to that question is that the figure in the Yellow Book is the correct one.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 140 under Programme 2108, Mineral Resource and Management, Activity 001– Geological Mapping – K196,223,272, and Activity 002 – Mineral Exploration – K1,900,000, and Programme 2139 – Petroleum Exploration –K1,750,000, Activity 001– K1,750,000. In 2022, the allocation for the first activity was K8,147,522. In 2023, it was K15,971,349 and in 2024, it is K198,718,272. Similarly, the allocation for the second activity was K6,938,431 then K14,266,349 and it is now K196,223,272. Further, the allocation for Activity 001 – Petroleum Exploration and Regulation, was K1,255,790, then K850,000 and is now K1,750,000.

Mr Chairperson, why has a small amount been allocated for petroleum exploration when we expect the ministry to go and explore Kamimbili in Chama where oil was discovered? Dr Kaunda, may his soul rest in peace, indicated that oil was found in this country. I do not know whether the amount will even be enough for transport. Further, why are there big margins on geological mapping?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Chairperson, there are jumps in certain allocations because of budgetary constraints. However, the concentration is on minerals. For petroleum exploration, the amount will cater for the licences that will be given in the petroleum sector, and we will negotiate with the private sector on how we will undertake petroleum exploration as joint ventures. However, we will, first, concentrate on exploring the known resources that Zambia has, such as copper, cobalt and sugilite. In fact, sugilite is being explored even before the budget for exploration is passed. So, we are already having negotiations for other minerals to be explored because we have faith that this budget will be passed and finances will be found. That is why we have done what we have done.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us make progress. That is why it is good to be punctual after break.

Hon. PF Members called for a division.

Question that Vote 14 – Ministry and Mines Minerals Development – K807,279,595 be ordered to stand part of the Estimates put and the House voted.

 

Ayes – (60)

Mr Amutike

Mr Anakoka

Mr Andeleki

Mr E. Banda

Mr Chaatila

Mr Chikote

Mr Chilundika

Mr Chinkuli

Mr Haimbe

Mr Hamwaata

Mr Hlazo

Mr Jamba

Mr Kabuswe

Mr Kambita

Mr Kamboni

Mr Kamondo

Mr Kandafula

Ms Kasanda

Mr Katakwe

Mr Kolala

Mr Lihefu

Eng. Mabenga

Mr Malambo

Mr Mapani

Mrs Masebo

Mr Matambo

Mr Mbangweta

Mr Michelo

Eng. Milupi

Mr Miyutu

Mr Mposha

Mr Mubika

Mr Muchima

Mr Mufalali

Mr Mukumbi

Mr Mulaliki

Mr Mulebwa

Mr C. Mulenga

Mr Mulunda

Mrs Mulyata

Mr Munsanje

Dr Musokotwane

Ms D. Mwamba

Mr Mwene

Mr Nanjuwa

Mr Ngowani

Mr Nkombo

Mr Nkulukusa

Eng. Nzovu

Mrs Sabao

Mr Siachisumo

Mr Sikumba

Mr Simbao

Mr Simunji

Mr Sing’ombe

Mr Syakalima

Ms Tambatamba

Mr Tayali

Mr Tayengwa

Mr Wamunyima

 

Noes – (21)

Mr A. Banda

Mr Chanda

Mr C. Chibuye

Mr E. Daka

Mr Kabaso

Mr Kafwaya

Mr Kapyanga

Mr Kasandwe

Mr M. Lungu

Mr C. Mpundu

Mr Mtayachalo

Mr Mumba

Mr Mung’andu

Mr E. Musonda

Ms S. Mwamba

Dr Mwanza

Mr Mwila

Ms Nakaponda

Mr P. Phiri

Mr Shakafuswa

Mr M. Tembo

 

Abstentions – (02)

Mr J. Daka

Mr Lubusha

 

Question accordingly agreed to.

VOTE 54 – (Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development – K662,369,238).

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to present the policy statement in support of the budget estimates for the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for the financial year 1^st January, 2024, to 31^st December, 2024. The mandate of the ministry is to superintend over the construction, rehabilitation, maintenance and management of all public infrastructure, including co-ordination, standardisation, quality assurance and efficiency, in support of national development.

Mr Chairperson, in 2023, my ministry was allocated K692,181,174. Out of that, K334 million was for public infrastructure development, K72 million was for maintenance of infrastructure and K144.5 million was for operational grants to the Road Development Agency (RDA), the National Council for Construction (NCC) and the National Housing Authority (NHA).

Mr Chairperson, in 2023, the ministry undertook the following activities:

1. launched the National Infrastructure Policy and its implementation plan to guide the co-ordinated and sustainable development of public infrastructure;

1. brought to the House for enactment the Zambia Institute of Valuation Surveyors Act No. 9 of 2023 to provide for the registration, regulation and development of the profession. My ministry undertook a review of the National Housing Authority Act, Chapter 195 of 1971, and has since prepared a draft Bill, which I intend to present to the House soon for consideration. My ministry also sought and obtained Cabinet approval to repeal and replace the Zambia Institute of Architects Act No. 36 of 1995 and the Quantity Surveyors Act Chapter 37 of 1995. I intend to present the two Bills to the House soon; and

(c)     launched the 2022-2026 Strategic Plan and the Service Delivery Charter to guide the ministry in delivering on its mandate and to reassure our stakeholders of our commitment to efficient and quality service delivery.

Mr Chairperson, under public infrastructure development, my ministry completed the construction of District Administration Office blocks in Kazungula, Limulunga, Vubwi and Mpongwe districts; Post Offices in Vubwi, Nalolo and Limulunga districts; Civic Centres in Nsama, Luampa, Kazungula and Chipili districts; and a police station in Siavonga District. My ministry will complete stalled projects, such as the Provincial Police Division Headquarters in Choma and Solwezi districts, and contractors are already on site.

Mr Chairperson, under housing development, my ministry commenced the construction of homes for our elderly citizens in Choma and Ndola districts. Progress was also made in the construction of social housing units for the vulnerable. Concerning maintenance of public infrastructure, my ministry rehabilitated thirty-three public buildings and houses, and completed the rehabilitation of the Zambian missions in Namibia, Mozambique and France. My ministry also commenced the rehabilitation of the mission in Tanzania.

Mr Chairperson, under Valuation and Property Management Services, my ministry inspected and valued 500 Government property across the country, managed and reviewed 290 Government property on lease, inspected fifty Government property for titling and prepared six valuation rolls for local government authorities. My ministry also developed a Fixed Asset Register intended to assist the Government to plan, secure and make decisions on its assets for purposes of property development, acquisition, allocation, utilisation, accounting, insurance and redevelopment of idle and wasting assets.

Mr Chairperson, in the road sector, my ministry, through the RDA, continued with the construction, rehabilitation and maintenance of road infrastructure countrywide. Critical among the key road projects were the rehabilitation of the Chinsali/Nakonde Road, whose progress stands at 97 per cent for the Chinsali/Isoka section and 94 per cent for the Isoka/Nakonde Road section. Further, my ministry, through the RDA, successfully signed the concession agreement for the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway Road Project, Katete/Chanida Road, Ndola/Sakanya/Mufulira Road including a border post, Kambimba/Lumwana Road and a border post under the public-private partnership (PPP) financing model.

Mr Chairperson, this august House may wish to note that the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Toll Road Project is complete and will be commissioned, maybe, next week. We are just waiting for the date to be finalised. Further, construction works on the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway Project have commenced and a 2.5 km dual carriageway has been constructed in Ndola. The contractor for the Ndola/Sakanya/Mufulira Road, including the border facilities, has also mobilised on site. The quality of the 2.5 km concrete road in Ndola is mesmerising many people. That is how we want things to be.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Mr Chairperson, in 2024, my ministry has a budgetary allocation of K662 million. Of this allocation, K65 million is for personnel emoluments, K81 million is for recurrent departmental charges, K298 million is for infrastructure development, K72 million is for maintenance of public infrastructure and K145 million is for operational grants to grant-aided institutions under the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, under the Housing Development Programme, K9 million has been allocated. The ministry will direct these resources towards completing on-going housing projects, including homes for the aged in Choma and Ndola, and 100 houses for the vulnerable. My ministry has also allocated a grant of K4.5 million to support the operations of the NHA.

Mr Chairperson, under public infrastructure development, K213 million has been allocated as public infrastructure capital expenditure. My ministry targets to complete five police stations, eleven District Administration Office blocks, two Post Offices and one Civic Centre. The ministry has allocated K3 million towards the oversight and regulatory functions of the NCC.

Mr Chairperson, in the area of road infrastructure development, the ministry will continue with the implementation of road construction, rehabilitation and maintenance programmes. The PPP mode of financing road projects will continue to be prioritised by my ministry as a way of promoting the participation of the private sector and relieving pressure from the National Treasury. My ministry has allocated a grant of K136 million to support the operations of the RDA.

Mr Chairperson, regarding the maintenance of public infrastructure, K72 million has been allocated in 2024. The ministry plans to rehabilitate public infrastructure and the three missions in Kenya, Tanzania and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

Mr Chairperson, under Valuation and Property Management Services, a sum of K13 million has been allocated for the preparation of valuation rolls for ten local authorities, inspection and valuation of 500 Government property, management and review of lease agreements for 250 Government property, and inspection of fifty Government property for titling.

Mr Chairperson, I now recommend for favourable consideration of this august House the 2024 budget for the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing, and Urban Development.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Mumba, the Patriotic Front (PF) Whip, has given me a list. We will start with Hon. Mung’andu.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, let me state, from the outset, that I support this Vote though, I feel, the allocations should have been more.

Mr Chairperson, my support is based on what the ministry is doing under Loans and Investment. We are seeing the Kamphemba Bridge in Chama being constructed. The hon. Minister just mentioned Katete/Chanida Road. We are seeing the Road Development Agency (RDA) carrying out spot improvements on the Chama/Lundazi Road, although it is the desire of the people that a contractor works on that stretch of the road. We have also seen the Chama/Matumbo Road being worked on and the RDA is clearing a stretch of 61 km near Luangwa Bridge, and that is why I support this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, coming to the substantive allocations, a paltry K101.9 million has been allocated towards rural and urban housing development, and the narration says that the Housing Development Programme has been allocated K101.9 million for implementation of four Sub-programmes. Rural and urban sub-programmes have been allocated K33 million and this clearly shows that housing is not a priority in this country. There is the saying that cities appear the way they are financed. If you look at the settlements in all urban areas, the best settlements were created by Dr Kenneth Kaunda under the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government. Look at Avondale. The hon. Member for Sioma, who has the privilege to fly, …

Mr Mandandi: Ah!

Mr Mung’andu: … will agree with me that he sees how well-planned Avondale is as he flies over that area, and how well-planned Kabulonga is. That is not by mistake. It is because people sat down and allocated funds to plan for settlements. We now have a situation in which people are given land without planning. The hon. Member for Kabwata will agree with me that cadres just put beacons at different points and tell you that is where your plot starts and ends. Housing should be planned in a way that synchronises with health services because a settlement defines the health expenses. It is difficult to upgrade some areas like Kanyama, not to undermine the hardworking hon. Member for Kanyama, Mr Chinkuli, because when it rains, they get flooded. So, we have a huge housing deficit in this country.

Mr Chairperson, rural settlements, such as villages, need to be planned. The cities we see in China were villages just like ours, but people came up with what we call integrated development plans (IDPs). I know, one will argue that such services are under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, but the Government works in clusters. We needed a bigger budget to provide decent housing to our citizens.

Mr Chairperson, a small amount has been allocated to the Valuation Department. Since we are struggling with resources, we told the Lusaka City Council (LCC) that if it financed the supplementary valuation roll, it would raise resources for paying its workers. The LCC only invested about K3 million to K4 million in supplementary valuation roll, and its monthly income increased by K18 million.

Mr Chairperson, the amount that has been allocated for valuation services to support local authorities is not enough because the hon. Minister explained that valuations are not only done when getting statistics on planned housing, but are also a source of income for local authorities. Most local authorities are unlikely to expand their revenue base. Valuation rolls are supposed to be conducted after ten years. However, some local authorities have been in existence for fifteen years, but have not conducted valuation services, and you will agree with me that almost all the districts have expanded. New settlements have emerged and all those properties should be captured on the valuation roll, which is also used by planners to plan for services needed by the people. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister to present a Supplementary Budget to ensure that the Valuation Department is well resourced enough, in terms of human capital, to carry out valuation services.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about property management. Most Government property, particularly in rural areas, is dilapidated. We, in the Patriotic Front (PF), believe in a Civil Service that is well looked after in terms of offices and accommodation. So, I urge the hon. Minister to present a Supplementary Budget so that most Civic Centres and Government properties are well maintained.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kandafula (Serenje): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this Vote on behalf of the people of Serenje. I will only talk about two issues on roads and crossing points.

Mr Chabinga: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chabinga: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this chance to raise a point of order.

Mr Chairperson, I am seated here, comfortably listening to the debate concerning the construction of the Isoka/Muyombe Road. However, this point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Chairperson, we are here for serious business. However, I am very disappointed to see the Member for Kalabo Central, Hon. Miyutu, sleeping in the House when we are debating the Budget. I need your serious ruling because he is fast asleep.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I do not think he was sleeping.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I think, he was reading.

May the hon. Member on the Floor continue.

Mr Kandafula: Mr Chairperson, I pointed out that I will only talk about two issues to do with roads and crossing points as well as Government offices.

Mr Chairperson, let me thank the Government for constructing a bridge at the Luombwa Crossing Point because that was a thorny issue. We are very happy about the works being done, although there are more crossing points that need attention. Otherwise, when the rainy season starts, we will be hearing about people being cut off, given that the two crossing points on the road from Serenje via Mapepala to Kasanka National Park need to be worked on. So, more money should have been allocated for crossing points.

Mr Chairperson, when the rainy season starts, I can sure you that Kabundi Road will be a rift valley. I say so because people literally stop passing there, as whoever tries to use that road – The road is a stretch of 54 km, but people pay K300 per trip, meaning vehicles are at risk. So, I ask the Government to work on the road through the Improved Rural Connectivity Project in which the province was given 500 km. If that stretch of 54 km is worked on, we will be home and dry.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about Government infrastructure, especially the offices. I wonder if inventories have been made because the state in which the offices are leaves much to be desired, yet they are occupied by people. The Government painted the offices, but they have cracks and are a danger even to people like us who go to those offices. So, I appeal to the Government to repair the roads and rehabilitate the offices.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The Government Chief Whip has also given me a list of hon. Members who want to debate.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to add a word to the debate on this Vote on behalf of the people of Mwembezhi.

Mr Chairperson, from time immemorial, the people of Mwembezhi had questioned the existence of the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development until the hon. Minister presented the policy statement. So, we are hopeful that infrastructure will be built in Mwembezhi.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: Mr Chairperson, there is currently a big conference in Lusaka that attracted many people from all over the world. The only places people can go and see nature is Livingstone and Mfuwe, yet there is Blue Lagoon National Park in Mwembezhi but one cannot drive to that park because the road is pathetic. The people in Mwembezhi were asking whether they are in a war zone because the road there is pathetic. The budget for this ministry is too small, but I request the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to work on the road that starts from Farmers via Nampundwe to the Blue Lagoon National Park in Mumbwa. That road is very important.

Mr Chairperson, sometime back, some people tarred roads where we would see one vehicle pass in the morning, another one at 1200 hours and in the evening, and some animals crossing because they said that those were economical roads. All the mines on the Copperbelt are talking about processing copper, but they cannot process copper without pyrite from Nampundwe Mine. However, the road to Nampundwe Mine is impassable, especially during the rainy season. I know that the technocrats are here and they are listening. The road from Nampundwe to Shibuyunji is also in a bad state. Therefore, I ask the hon. Minister to take a keen interest in that important and economic road.

Mr Chairperson, Shibuyunji was declared a district not by the people of Shibuyunji, but by the Government. What wrong have we, the people of Mwembezhi, done for the District Commissioner (DC), who is the eyes of the President, to squat in my office, the Constituency Office? What type of embarrassment is that? There is no Civic Centre in the district, and there is nothing happening there. So, the people of Shibuyunji and Mwembezhi in general are asking the Government to build infrastructure in Shibuyunji as it builds infrastructure across the country. We cannot have a situation in which an arm of the Government is squatting in the office of the Legislator. What type of arrangement is that?

Mr Chairperson, in 2011, a contractor was given the contract to build a Civic Centre in Shibuyunji, but since the infrastructure is incomplete, it has become a den of thieves. Thieves hide there because nothing is happening, and I know that the technocrats are listening. We should follow up on what happened. Where is the money? Some people were saying that they built a lot of infrastructure in Lusaka. However, they are the same people who were getting the money intended for the people of Shibuyunji and did not build anything in the district. We should show that we are nobler than the people who put public money in their pockets and did nothing.

Mr Chairperson, I am crying because there is no district hospital in Shibuyunji, which is a district. When someone in Shibuyunji is sick, he/she is referred to the Levy Mwanawasa University Teaching Hospital. How many kilometres is that? Imagine a pregnant woman about to deliver being on an ambulance from Shikatende. By the time they reach here, do you expect her to survive?

The Government should do a better job because Shibuyunji is part of Zambia. We cannot continue living as though we were still in the colonial days when we are the owners of this country.

Mr Chairperson, I do not want to say a lot because I know that the hon. Minister is a noble man and he will give us the money, but he should do that quickly.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this important Vote. Allow me to place it on record that the people of Kanchibiya support the allocation for the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Chairperson, let me start by commending the hon. Minister for being a man of his word. A year ago or so, I talked about two critical issues on the Floor of this House. The hon. Minister gave us his word that we were going to see the construction of the Aluni Mulonga Acrow and Kaunda bridges. I wish to report that the two bridges are under construction. One is being constructed by the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and the other one by the Road Development Agency (RDA), …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda: … and 50 per cent of the work has been done. Further, two Acrow bridges are under construction, and I appeal to the ministry to help us to complete them under the 2024 Budget. Allow me to commend the RDA and the provincial team in Muchinga for being proactive. Sometimes, we do not say these things because we have taken civility away from politics.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to speak to the national housing deficiency, especially in rural areas. Reports point to being there a deficit of about 1.5 million houses, which is expected to double by 2030. Our population stands at 19 million, and we know that it is growing. The employment rate is around 15 per cent. Further, it costs about K800,000 to put up one housing unit in Kanchibiya. That is not sustainable because of the demand and the housing deficit. Teachers and nurses were deployed to rural areas, but they cannot find accommodation. Our request is that the engineers at the ministry help us to see how we can use local materials, such as burnt bricks made from high technology brick-making machines so that we can have quality structures. That will go a long way because we know that we are going to save money and construct more houses out of the K800,000 that can only construct one housing unit.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry is critical to transforming our economy. If we are to trigger a rural drift as opposed to an urban drift, we need the requisite infrastructure in rural areas so that jobs can be created and industrialisation can happen. In this regard, more money should be allocated to this important ministry. We are all knocking at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for many of our needs. We are also mindful that there can only be so much, but a Supplementary Budget would be very much welcome, and the people of Kanchibiya will support it wholeheartedly. We are also aware that in order for us to create employment opportunities for our people, especially those in rural areas, we need to deal with infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, let me get back to Aluni Mulonga Acrow and Kaunda bridges that are being constructed courtesy of the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. Those bridges will open up Kanchibiya to serious agricultural productivity, and when they are completed, we will see heightened agricultural activities, value addition and market linkages. Therefore, the people of Kanchibiya will get more money from the agricultural sector. Not only that, but essential services will also reach the areas easily because the Government would have given them the enablers that they need.

Mr Chairperson, we are investing in roads, but some of them go beyond what we can afford within the scope of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So, we appeal to the ministry to help us to rehabilitate roads. We are investing in earth-moving equipment and equipping councils that have engineers so that we can undertake maintenance works at the constituency level instead of bringing a contractor from Lusaka. We have the equipment. So, we should engage the councils. That will enable councils to generate revenue and help them to create a resource base. However, we still need an administration block and a police station in Kanchibiya.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has been very proactive. So, I thank the hon. Minister, his team, the technocrats, the Permanent Secretary (PS) and the staff, for being very proactive whenever we have knocked on their doors.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support this budget wholeheartedly and, if it were possible, would have called for it to be doubled or tripled.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the policy statement.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has embarked on public-private partnership (PPP) programmes that I commend, such as the construction of the Ndola Dual Carriageway. However, such projects must be undertaken by the locals, considering that local resources are being used.

Mr Chairperson, I want to bring it to the attention of the ministry that the people of Nalolo Constituency, since time immemorial, have wondered whether this ministry exists. Over 40,000 people are cut off from the main road, the Kalabo/Kalongola Road, which passes through Kalabo and connects Nalolo West to Nalolo East. The road was last worked on by the Parish Evangelical Missionary Society (PEMS), which came with Francis Coillard in 1883. One can imagine how the people of Nalolo feel to be cut off, and that is where the majority of the people are.

Mr Chairperson, for one to get to the beautiful district hospital, which is, by the way, incomplete, one has to pass through the bush. I take over six hours to reach Nalolo West from Nalolo East as if I am coming to Lusaka, and I have to go through Sioma, Sikongo and Shangombo. There are wards that border with Sikongo and Angola, such as Shekela, but there is no proper access road. Therefore, I reluctantly support the budget because the most important road has not yet been worked on even as a gravel road. The people in Nalolo West farm just for consumption because they cannot take their produce to the market. Therefore, the correct position is that the people of Nalolo, particularly those in Nalolo West, feel neglected because there is no Government after Independence that has worked on that road. I believe that the hon. Minister is equal to the task, since we went to see that important road together.

Mr Chairperson, from 2010 to 2020, districts were being declared at the speed of light. In 2012, Nalolo was declared a district, but the district offices are still incomplete. The district administration is in Nalolo East, where the lowest population is. The District Commissioner (DC), the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) and other officers at the district level need to move to where the district offices are, but they cannot move unless the road that connects Senanga, Nalolo and Kalabo is worked on. There are 40,000 people in that area. However, the district administrator administers an area that only has 25,000 people. So, it is important that the road is worked on. We are not asking for a bituminous standard road, but a gravel road from Kaunga Lweti to Ndoka so that we stop spending almost the whole day when going to Nalolo, which is a short distance, because of passing in heavy sand in the bush.

Mr Chairperson, I want to bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister that the local people whom the contractor engaged to construct some infrastructure claim to not have been paid and decided to indemnify themselves by removing iron sheets and vandalising Government property. So, a technical team must go there. Some infrastructure, such as houses and offices, were at 60 per cent to 70 per cent, but the local people who are frustrated because of not being paid by the contractor vandalised the property by removing window panes and other things, saying that that was a way of paying themselves because they do not have sight of the contractor. Of course, that is a legacy issue. Some of those people were from the Copperbelt and they failed to leave the place because they were not paid. For them to reach Senanga Boma, they have to walk for over five hours and cross the Zambezi River. However, they have now settled and married. Of course, it is ‘One Zambia One Nation’. We have received them. So, I encourage the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province to go and visit them.

Mr Chairperson, the Western Province is disconnected from development. We are very happy with the Limulunga Road, which leads to His Majesty the King of Barotseland, Lubosi Imwiko’s house. We want the Kalabo/Sikongo Road to be worked on to connect Kalabo and Angola, and open trade in the Western Province. We are happy that the Tateyoyo/Katunda Road will be constructed, and we are very grateful for that. We also want the Sesheke/Kazungula Road to be worked on to open up the province, which is very rich, except that it has been abandoned for many years. However, I commend the Government for the strides it has made.

Mr Chairperson, of course, I will not talk about King Lewanika University. I know that with the structuring of the ministries, perhaps, that issue now falls under the Ministry of Education. However, we have many issues that I know are not only in the Western Province. The Shantumbu/Kafue Road is also a disaster and needs attention.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I unreservedly support this Vote and encourage the hon. Minister to continue on the same path he is on. In view of the strides that have been made, I feel, the hon. Minister is capable of achieving much more in this ministry.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much.

Mr Chairperson, without wasting much time, let me say that I support the budget that is being debated on the Floor of this House. This budget is very important to us, as a country, because it is about infrastructure. Infrastructure is the means for us to move from one place to the other in the country and to connect the country and improve economic activity. If we have observed, we have seen that most developed countries are well connected, and that is how commerce and most economic activities are enhanced.

Mr Chairperson, I briefly want to comment on infrastructure that relates to national development. In the previous regime, there was a haphazard implementation of infrastructure development, and that is why we ended up acquiring a debt mountain. I have repeatedly mentioned on the Floor of this House that contracts were given like people were sharing beer, just to agree with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning’s phrase, and that is why we are where we are. I want to debate what transpired in previous years when the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was ruling and what is being done now objectively because if some people cannot distinguish the difference in approach, then, it will be difficult for us to explain to the people.

Mr Chairperson, on social media, some people comment about ECL’s (Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s) legacy and show some infrastructure that was constructed. Somebody was illustrating that the PF infrastructure development claim is like somebody offering to buy you beer but, after drinking, that person leaves the bill for you to pay. That is the kind of situation we have. Our colleagues talk about infrastructure. However, they ordered the beer, drunk it and left the bill for us to pay. So, this is the problem that we are facing at the moment.

Mr Chairperson, we came up with a more organised approach. We looked at what we had and we knew that we could not afford to embark on aggressive infrastructure development. So, we thought of what we could do and decided to involve the public sector, people who have money to invest in projects, so that we could have something done using other people’s money while paying slowly, and that is the public-private partnership (PPP) model. If people do not understand this model, it is about having some room. We need the Ndola/Lusaka Dual Carriageway, but we could not finance it using our Budget because of the big debt mountain that these people (Referring to hon. PF Members) left. I commend the hon. Minister for reaching the concessions that demonstrate that the PPP model is workable in this country. We will continue on this trajectory because it is feasible. The investors will recover their money whilst we carry out the maintenance. Look at the approach. However, we will not only undertake projects using the PPP model. Money has been allocated to ensure that projects that are critical and need to be maintained are worked on. Maintenance works are being undertaken on the Chinsali Road and many others and, I think, that is the best approach.

Mr Chairperson, moving away from national issues, I want to zero in on my constituency because that is where I have an issue. The Road Development Agency (RDA) is supposed to work on the Acrow Bridges in Zambezi. The hon. Minister is on record on the Floor of this House confirming that the Makondu Bridge in Zambezi East would be worked on using this year’s Budget, but the year is coming to an end, and that could have been missed because of financing problems. However, I ask the ministry to remember to work on the bridge under the 2024 Budget because it is very important, and children risk being caught by crocodiles. The ministry should also work on the bridge between Nyakuleng’a and Kakekhi. I am sure, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is already working on the bridge in Malola and many other bridges. I thank the ministry for working on the bridge for my good neighbours in Zambezi West. That is the way to go, but we are expectant and we hope to see the bridges in Zambezi East worked on.

Mr Chairperson, the road that leads to Chitokoloki, a very short stretch of less than 50 km, needs to be upgraded to bituminous standard because it leads to very important infrastructure. You have heard me complain about Zambezi District Hospital, which has now collapsed. So, people are depending on Chitokoloki Mission Hospital and trek on a stretch that is in a bad state. As of now, what needs to be done are maintenance works. If we can salvage some funds somewhere, we should do that so that we maintain that road. We bought equipment, but the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is too little to use for such serious work. These things I am mentioning are constituency-specific, but I know that there are many challenges in different areas in the country. I heard the independent hon. Member of Parliament, Mr Wamunyima, mention the Shantumbu Road. The road –

Mr Anakoka: PNUP (Party of National Unity and Progress).

Mr Kambita: Oh, the PNUP (Party of National Unity and Progress) hon. Member. It is difficult to remember small parties.

Laughter

Mr Kambita: Mr Chairperson, I heard him mention the Shantumbu Road, which is here, in Lusaka, and seems to be an eyesore. The Government should work on that road as quickly as it can because it is important. It is in Kafue Constituency, but it connects to a place where mining is taking place.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I support this budget, and I end by saying that the houses for civil servants countrywide must also be looked into. Let us build more housing units so that public servants can live decently.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Daka will be the last to debate then the hon. Minister will wind up debate.

Mr J. Daka and Mr E. Daka rose.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Daka, the hon. Member for Chadiza.

Mr E. Daka interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: I indicated that the Whip for the Patriotic Front (PF) availed the list that I am following.

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chadiza, to add my voice to the debate on this important Vote. The Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is key to almost all sectors of our economy.

Mr Chairperson, I will talk about the budgetary allocation to the department of management and support services, which has reduced. We expected it to increase because of how important the department is to the development of this country. This department monitors and evaluates projects both locally and internationally, but it is very understaffed. For that reason, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to recruit engineers so that they can conduct the monitoring and evaluation (M&E) function.

Mr Chairperson, there is no design department at the ministry that can come up with designs that are specific to a project. The ministry relies on generic designs, and one knows the danger of that. In Pemba, the contractor used a generic design and the structure at the hospital is characterised by cracks because he did not conduct a specific geotechnical survey to ascertain the strength of the foundation. He just book-lifted the design and took it to Pemba, hence, the disaster that we saw there.

Mr Chairperson, we have also seen how the ministry is unable to supervise all the projects being implemented throughout the country. Providing management for projects being implemented throughout the country is a nightmare. We went to Senanga and found that the contractor was receiving instructions from the local team, but when the team from Lusaka comprising project managers went on site, it changed the instructions after the contractor had already procured the materials for the design of the roof, and there was confusion. So, the ministry should supervise local projects.

Mr Chairperson, on international projects, we saw the disaster that happened at our mission in Zimbabwe, where a contractor was paid money, but there was no proper project management to follow up on quality management. As a country, we lost many resources in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is near Zambia, yet the engineers at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development did not go to supervise the project. In that regard, the Government should delegate some duties and responsibilities, especially when international projects are being implemented. If the Government cannot do that, it can attach technocrats to the missions so that they can supervise projects on a daily basis. Engineers in Lusaka go and supervise projects in Abuja, New York and Washington. So, when contractors want to execute works in the various missions, he has to wait for a team from Zambia to go and supervise that project. That creates a problem because there is delay in executing the project and making payments. When there is delay in making a payment, that attracts interest, and that has a negative impact on the project. I would not want to see our country lose resources when that can easily be avoided. So, the Government should attach people to missions where projects are being implemented so that they can supervise those projects and provide quality assurance strategies.

Mr Chairperson, on the Government Assets and Maintenance Programme, the Government performed very poorly. Our property in most missions abroad, like India, are completely dilapidated. In Kenya, our property was taken over by people who thought it did not show any sign of life because the Government of the Republic of Zambia was not using it. So, unscrupulous people took over the property illegally. As I speak, the Zambian Government is fighting legal battles in Kenya because people thought the property was abandoned, as there was no life in it, and that borders on the management of resources. The Government should ensure that there is a team that is always alert with regard to the management of its assets regardless of where they are.

Mr Chairperson, I will be failing in my duty if I do not talk about what is affecting the people of Chadiza. As I support this budget, I expect the ministry to ensure that the contractor remobilises, because works on the Chipata/Chadiza Road stalled, so that the people of Chadiza can be happy. The roads from Chipata to Lundazi and from Chama to Matumbo are very important, and the Government should release resources so that they are worked on. Further, the Chipata/Vubwi Road and several other roads in the province need to be worked on. Regarding the Luangwa Bridge, I know that the Government is carrying out works there.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

The Deputy Chairperson: This Vote is topical and many hon. Members wanted to debate it. However, we have to conclude business because the Budget is time-bound. So, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will wind up debate.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on this Vote. I think, there was an overriding theme in the debates of bemoaning the amount that has been allocated to the ministry. There is a need for infrastructure development across our country. Nobody would be happier than me if we had a lot more money to do the many things that we need to do. In order to bring in the accelerated development that we need in this country, infrastructure is key. So, if we do not have resources, then, we cannot have that accelerated development. However, we must consider these issues in the context of the resource envelope that we, as a country, have. The ideal situation is to work on our roads, railway lines and airports so that we can begin to trade, grow our economy and do a lot more with the revenues that would come from a grown economy.

Mr Chairperson, under the circumstances in which we assumed office, there is a need for this Government to deal with the issues that we found. It is not a political statement; it is a statement of fact. The economy was in recession of - 2.8 per cent when we came into office and there was a heavy debt burden. These matters have to be corrected first. When they are corrected, we will get the resources that are needed not just for infrastructure, but also for other sectors of the economy. That is why we need the support of all the citizens in view of the things that we, as the Government, are doing to place this economy on a trajectory of growth. So, we have to do with the little that we have.

Mr Chairperson, let me correct my brother, Hon. Kambita. Hon. Wamunyima represents the second biggest opposition party in Parliament.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Mr Chairperson, the Kalabo/Kalongola Road was mentioned, and I have been on that road several times. It starts from Senanga to Kalongola and goes all the way to Kalabo. Actually, my mother comes from Lukona. So, I am affected as well. I have always said that in that region, all the areas west of the Zambezi River, right from Chavuma West, through Zambezi West, Lukulu West, that is, Mitete, the whole of Kalabo District, Sikongo and Nalolo West, I think, have been left out from development by leaders right from the colonial masters to all Governments of independent Zambia. The Kalabo/Kalongola Road is essential and is on our plans, but we await resources. We understand about the vandalism, and my officers here have taken note.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kambita mentioned some bridges, and we have taken note of them. I agree with him that Chitokoloki Mission should have the status of a heritage site. Those who have been there know how important it is.

Mr Chairperson, Eng. J. Daka brought out technical issues of monitoring and evaluation (M&E), supervision of local projects, and so on and so forth, and I agree with him. I am one of those people who traverse the length and breadth of this country. So, I can tell you what is needed, whether in Luapula or Chienge, or the Chilubi/Chaba Road. All these things are known to us. We are constrained by the resources, but I can assure him that the Chipata/Lundazi Road is uppermost in our priorities and that we hope that in 2024, the people will begin to see action on that rural road.

Mr Chairperson, on the supervision of local projects, we hear that. In terms of our property in our missions, they are supposed to be maintained by this ministry.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, we did not hear you comment on the Chipata/Chadiza Road.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: It is very good to hear that the Chairperson is listening to what is being said. I can assure him and the relevant people that the Chipata/Chadiza Road is uppermost in our priorities at the ministry and, beyond that, on the mind of the President. In 2024, action will begin to be seen.

Mr Jamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Chairperson, let me assure the gentleman who has just come in, whether it is to fight or not, I do not know, that I have spent this whole week chairing a Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) meeting on behalf of my colleague, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, because I am the Acting Minister. The whole morning, I was chairing the Council of Ministers. So many people from outside are visiting. The point that he made is that the conference centre that was built is attracting many conferences, but we do not benefit as much as we ought to because immediately after a conference, people go back. So, we need to develop tourist attraction areas, and the Blue Lagoon National Park, where the road the hon. Member referred to leads, is one such place. We intend to do something on that road.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of the budget, there is six hundred and something odd Kwacha, which is inadequate for infrastructure development. However, this is not the budget for roads. The budget for roads is under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. So, it is not part of that which we are debating right now. In fact, I think, there is about K8 billion for roads, but it is still not enough. When we debate the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, we shall deal with that.

Mr Chairperson, I liked Hon. Mung’andu’s debate. We are doing quite a bit on Kamphemba Bridge and when it is complete, Chief Kambombo’s area, which normally gets cut off during the rainy season, will not be cut off. We know what we are doing concerning the Chama/Matumbo Road, and we think that we ought to allocate something for the Lundazi/Chipata Road, especially the 50 km from the end of Chipangali to Lundazi. We have worked on the two bridges across there and we will continue carrying out works.

Mr Chairperson, we heard what the hon. Member for Serenje said about the bridges. Let me inform Hon. Sunday Chanda that this is a demonstration of what hon. Members of Parliament can do if they focus on doing things in their constituencies. I think, the Government, through the provincial office of the Road Development Agency (RDA), has responded to his engagement with us. Regarding the use of local materials to address the housing deficit, we have gone beyond that. We engaged a company that will be manufacturing reinforced concrete blocks, which will reduce the cost of constructing houses, and the time. A three-bedroomed house will be able to be put up in three days.

Mr Chairperson, I thank all those who debated.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 33 – (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry – K745,489,132).

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chipoka Mulenga)): Mr Chairperson, I stand on the Floor of this House as Acting Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Chairperson, I am grateful to you for according me the opportunity to present the ministerial policy statement on the estimates of revenue and expenditure for Vote 33, Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Chairperson, first and foremost, I would like to thank His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for the well-articulated opening address made to this august House on 8^th September, 2023. The speech inspired all Zambians and, indeed, gave us a very progressive policy direction.

Mr Chairperson, I also wish to thank and commend the Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, on a well-articulated National Budget Address delivered under the theme “Unlocking Economic Potential”. I must indicate that the theme of the Budget Address resonates well with the ministry’s mandate of developing the economy through industrialisation and trade promotion.

Mr Chairperson, during 2023, the ministry was allocated K591.2 million, as compared with K500.9 million in 2022. From the approved budget, the ministry had been funded K293.5 million, representing 49.6 per cent as at 31^st October, 2023. Of the released funds, K288.7 million has been spent, representing 98.4 per cent absorption of funds. It is our expectation that the remaining balance of the funds will be disbursed before the end of the year. In this regard, allow me to, again, thank the able hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the timely disbursement of the funds, which assisted the ministry to effectively implement its programmes.

Mr Chairperson, I will now provide a summary of the performance of the ministry’s programmes during the period under review.

Competition and Consumer Welfare

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry achieved its targets in assessing mergers and acquisitions, and secured over US425 million in investments. It also maintained over 3,000 jobs and resolved over 70 per cent cases on restrictive business practices and abuse of dominance cases to safeguard the welfare of consumers and maintain fair competition in the business environment.

Standardisation and Quality Assurance

Mr Chairperson, the ministry continued to develop voluntary and compulsory standards in order to strengthen compliance with international requirements and promote adaptation of international best practices in product and service quality and standardisation.

Industrial and Enterprise Development

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry continued to promote investment in value addition activities in order to spur industrial and enterprise development in the country. We continue to use the Special Economic Zones model as one of the major vehicles to industrial and enterprise development. Special Economic Zones are increasingly becoming an important model of promoting investment –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1842 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 24^thNovember, 2023.

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