Tuesday, 21st November, 2023

Tuesday, 21^stNovember, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF UGANDA

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence of hon. Members of the Committee on Gender, Labour and Social Development, and staff from the Parliament of Uganda. They are supposed to be in the Speaker’s Gallery but, for some unknown reason, they are in the Public Gallery. The Members of the delegation are:

Hon. Flavia Kabahenda, MP – Chairperson and Leader of the Delegation

Hon. Sarah Najjuma, MP

Hon. Sowedi Kitanywa, MP

Hon. Peggy Wako, MP

Hon. Susan Abeja, MP

Hon. Phyllis Chemutai, MP

Ms Martha M. Kaganzi – Secretary to the delegation.

I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF STUDENTS FROM MUKWELA PRIMARY SCHOOL, KALOMO DISTRICT,

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils from Mukwela Primary School, Kalomo District, in the Southern Province.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I can see a long list on my screen, but according to the House Business Committee, it was agreed that we only take three matters because we are busy with the Budget.

MR C. CHIBUYE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MKUSHI NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON THE DEATH OF A MAN IN POLICE CUSTODY IN MKUSHI

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, the matter I wish to raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, although I cannot see him in the House. However, the Leader of Government Business in the House is present.

Madam Speaker, on the 19^th of this month, which was a Sunday, one family in Mkushi woke up in tears. The members of this family visited police cells hoping to see their family member only to be directed to go to the hospital and look for their relative there, and not in any ward at the hospital, but the mortuary.

Madam Speaker, a person by the name of Allan Sikalonga was among three suspects who were detained in police custody. Those suspects suffered beatings from the officers who were interrogating them. From the interrogation room, the person was taken to the police cells. However, his colleagues there noticed that he was not alive. That has actually agitated the people of Mkushi and led to some riotous behaviour by the people of Mkushi, Itala Compound in particular.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence in this matter.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, this matter does not qualify as a matter of urgent vpublic importance because it has just happened in one area.

Mr C. Chibuye interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, do not even be surprised. You can use another avenue to bring that matter to the House. You can file an urgent question.

MR MABETA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KANKOYO, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE, MR LUFUMA, ON THE SHOOTING OF A TWELVE-YEAR-OLD BOY IN KANKOYO BY A ZAMBIA NATIONAL SERVICE OFFICER

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, the people of Kankoyo are mourning again. A twelve-year-old child died after being shot in the chest yesterday by a Zambia National Service (ZNS) officer who went to check if there was a house in Kankoyo keeping more than two bags of mealie meal.

Mr Mposha: Two?

Mr Mabeta: Yes.

Madam Speaker, the people of Kankoyo want to know from the hon. Minister of Defence when the ZNS was given powers to conduct searches in residential houses and shoot at young boys who are defenseless.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: This matter is almost similar to the one raised by the hon. Member for Mkushi North. Can you, please, file in an urgent question because if you wait for a ministerial statement, it may come this week or next week, which will be too late. However, we want to know immediately what happened. So, please, can you file an urgent question as well.

MR WAMUNYIMA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NALOLO, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, DR MUSOKOTWANE, ON THE ALLEGATIONS THAT ZAMBIA’S OFFICIAL CREDITORS HAD REJECTED THE REVISED DEBT RESTRUCTURING AGREEMENT

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, though in absentia

Madam Speaker, the News Diggers newspaper, today, has carried a headline which reads, “Official creditors reject govt’s revised agreement with bondholders”. Similar headlines made the rounds on various social media platforms and general media outlets yesterday. That includes Bloomberg News, which is a reputable financial reporting agency.

Madam Speaker, this matter is urgent in the sense that with the current Budget that we are busy with now, one of the pillars is based on the assumption that Zambia will have a successful negotiation process with regards to debt restructuring, which we truly support. The statement in the News Diggers newspaper today raises the question of whether the money that we are appropriating today, which includes money to be allocated to hospitals and schools, will really be found, in the sense that Zambia will be borrowing US$416.33 million in the Budget.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence in the sense that the continuous speculation on debt restructuring has the possible consequence of the economy of Zambia losing its credit rating. So, we would like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to provide clarity as we are appropriating our Budget.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, much as this matter is very important, it is not of a life-and-death situation. Therefore, you will find another avenue for bringing it back to the House. Otherwise, it does not qualify as a matter of urgent public importance.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

RECRUITMENT OF 3,000 HEALTH WORKERS

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to express my gratitude to you for according me this opportunity to update the nation, through this august House, on the status of the 2023 net recruitment of 3,000 health workers countrywide.

Madam Speaker, the vision of the Government in the health sector is: “A nation of healthy and productive people”. To attain this vision, the Government, working closely with key stakeholders, should put in place a robust and resilient health system that will facilitate the attainment of national targets, Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and universal health coverage, which is about leaving no one behind.

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to inform the House that the New Dawn Government has demonstrated its commitment to strengthening the health system through the increased annual budgetary allocations to the Ministry of Health. The House may wish to recall that the budgetary allocation to the health sector has increased over the past three years from K9.2 billion in 2021 to K12.4 billion in 2022 and, now, K16.1 billion in 2023. The increased budgetary allocation is necessary to address challenges like an unstable supply chain, obsolete medical equipment, inadequate infrastructure and inadequate staffing levels.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that over time, we, as a country, have made notable progress in terms of construction of health infrastructure. Currently, there are a total of 3,581 health facilities across the country, of which 3,419 are Government-run and 162 are faith-based. The House may further wish to note that not all health facilities are operating at full capacity. Instead, they are operating at different levels of service delivery. The health facilities include specialised hospitals like the National Heart Hospital, tertiary hospitals such as Levy Mwanawasa and University Teaching Hospital (UTH), second-level hospitals such as Kabwe General Hospital, first-level hospitals such as Chongwe District Hospital, health centres such as the one at State House and health posts such as the ones most hon. Members of Parliament have been constructing using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, the failure to operate at full capacity has been attributed to a limited fiscal space that has resulted in a number of positions not being funded over long periods from the time the organisational structures were approved by Cabinet Office. I wish to stress that investment in health infrastructure has been informed by a number of factors that include population growth and changing disease patterns.

Madam Speaker, while appreciating the increased number of health facilities, which are aimed at promoting access to quality health care as close to the family as possible, the shortage of healthcare workers in the facilities continues to be a concern for the Government, as it counters the Government’s efforts to attain the desired health goals.

Madam Speaker, a competent and adequate health workforce is the nerve centre of every resilient health system, and it is key to achieving universal health coverage. However, there are a number of health workforce challenges, which include the following:

critical shortages in the supply of health workers;
an inadequate mix of skills in the workforce;
inequitable geographical distribution of health workers; and
gaps in workers’ competencies, motivation and performance.

Madam Speaker, addressing these major challenges is, therefore, crucial to strengthening the healthcare system and building a robust health system that is resilient to disease outbreaks and, indeed, other public health emergencies.

Madam Speaker, currently, there are 3,581 approved health facilities across the country, as earlier stated. This represents an establishment of 139,590 positions, out of which 72,697 positions are currently filled. This accounts for 52 per cent of filled up positions, while 64,276 remain unfunded, representing 48 per cent. The facilities include the grant-aided institutions, which are faith-based health facilities, especially those under the Roman Catholic Church and, indeed, other church organisations.

Madam Speaker, as of 30^th September, 2023, there are around 233 health facilities that have been constructed and completed. The additional facilities will result in the creation of 7,276 additional positions when operationalised. That will result in an increase in the establishment from the current 139,590 to 146,866, further increasing the staffing levels from 64,276 to 74,187. Therefore, in order for the Ministry of Health to reach 100 per cent in staffing levels, capacity, it will require a total of K7,648,480,651.90 per annum to operationalise the remaining 74,187 positions.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to recall that during the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly on Friday, 8^th September, 2023, His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia, assured the nation that the recruitment of 3,000 health workers would be undertaken as budgeted for in 2023. This is a build-up on the landmark recruitment of over 11,000 health workers in 2022. Following the President’s pronouncement, the Ministry of Health, working closely with key stakeholders, commenced a process to ensure that the 3,000 health workers are recruited in a transparent manner and equitably distributed across the country.

Madam Speaker, to be inclusive and transparent, after learning from the 2022 recruitment, in the 2023 net recruitment, the Government through the Ministry of Health has consulted with key stakeholders in the sector so as to build consensus on the mode and criterion to be used in the recruitment process. This approach involved:

receiving submissions from the provincial health offices, district health offices and all health facilities on the priority areas to be considered in terms of the category of positions;

meeting with the Public Service Management Division, Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the Civil Service Commission to discuss the recruitment process; and

holding consultative meetings with the following professional associations under the Ministry of Health;

Zambia Medical Association (ZMA);

Biomedical Association of Zambia (BAZ);

Zambia Institute of Environmental Health (ZIEH);

Pharmaceutical Society of Zambia (PSZ);

Zambia Union of Nurses Organisation (ZUNO);

Midwifery Association of Zambia (MAZ);

Clinical Association of Zambia (CAZ);

Resident Doctors Association of Zambia (RDAZ);

Nutrition Association of Zambia (RDAZ);

Radiological Association of Zambia (NAZ);

Zambia Society of Physiotherapists (ZSP); and

Zambia Dental Association (ZDA).

Interruptions

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Your voices are becoming louder. We want to listen to the ministerial statement. Kindly lower your voices.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, following the consultations, stakeholders resolved to take a two-fold approach to the recruitment. These are:

promotion of In-service staff; followed by

recruitment of new entrants thereafter.

Promotion of in-Service Staff

Madam Speaker, this House may wish to note that the past recruitments had always focused on new entrants. That created stagnation in career progression and in some cases, contributed to demotivation and poor performance among health workers who remained in the same positions for long periods and those who have been assigned administrative roles in higher positions without receiving acting allowances or commensurate pay.

Madam Speaker, starting with processing of promotions for in-service health workers will not only result in the creation of vacant positions for new entrants, but most importantly, will also motivate the staff who have held the same positions for a long time and will allow for optimal performance while strengthening the retention system in the health sector. The transfer by cadre and cascade effect are as follows:

Transfers by Cadre and Cascade effect

Cadre TAPIDs Cascade Grand Total

Administration 29 26 55

Audiology 1 1

Clinical Officer 321 38 359

Dental 13 1 14

Environmental Health 24 5 29

Laboratory 47 26 73

Medical Doctor 253 58 311

Midwife 560 35 595

Nurse 267 343 610

Nutrition 20 2 22

Orthopedics 1 1

Pharmacy 102 30 132

Physiotherapy 24 21 45

Radiology 19 10 29

Teaching 115 33 148

Grand Total 1,796 628 2,424

Madam Speaker, in line with the National Decentralisation Policy, the promotions of in-service staff will be conducted through the respective health facilities, DHOs and PHOs.

Recruitment of New Entrants

Madam Speaker, the recruitment of new entrants will be conducted to fill up the positions created following the promotions. When you promote somebody, a new position is created. So, that new position is the one you fill up by recruiting a new entrant. In order to ensure transparency in the recruitment process, the process has been decentralised to the district and provincial levels. To this effect, the CSC has advertised the recruitment of 3,000 health workers as per the Conveyance of Treasury Authority No. 7 of 2023, dated 27^th September, 2023. Please, take note that the Treasury authority only came through on 27^th September, 2023.

You may wish to note, Madam Speaker, that the closing date for receiving applications was Friday, 22^nd September, 2023.

Madam Speaker, the received applications will be screened through a transparent and accountable process as follows:

the Human Resource Sub-Committees at the district level will short-list and select candidates based on a prescribed criterion;
selected candidates will be validated at the provincial level by the Human Resource Management Committees; and
selected candidates at the provincial level will further be validated for quality assurance by the National Technical Committees, which comprises officials from the CSC, PSMD and the Ministry of Health before, the publication of the successful list of candidates in the print media.

Madam Speaker, some key activities, such as granting of Treasury authority by the PSMD, advertising the recruiting by the CSC and receiving of application letters by the provincial and district health offices have been undertaken. Further, the promotions and transfers of in-service staff has reached an advanced stage in that the Ministry of Health has completed the exercise and forwarded the successful candidates to the CSC for finalisation.

Madam Speaker, the roadmap for the remaining key activities is as follows:

screening, short-listing and selection of applicants by the Human Resource Management Committee and the Human Resources Management Sub-Committee is expected to be completed this November;

recommendation of selected candidates to the Human Resources Management Committee by the Human Resource Management Sub-Committee is expected to be done in the same month of November;

the validation and recommendation of selected candidates by the Human Resource Management Committee is expected to be completed by the same month of November;

validation and processing of the recommendation of successful candidates by the Civil Service Commission, PSMD and the Ministry of Health is expected to be completed in the same month of November;

publication of the successful candidates in the print media, websites, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) and community radio stations is expected to be done during the first week of December 2023; and

the issuance of appointment letters to successful candidates by the PSMD, PHOs and DHOs is expected to be done in the first week of December 2023. This means that we expect people to report for work in the second week of December.

Madam Speaker, as indicated earlier, the 2023 recruitment of health workers is being implemented in two phases, starting with the promotion of in-service staff followed by the recruitment of new entrants. In order to ensure that suitable candidates are promoted and recruited, the CSC has directed that the recruitment process be halted until further notice. In addition, the commission has directed the Provincial Administrations to ensure that in the meantime, the application documents are maintained at the districts pending submission to the provinces at the opportune time.

Madam Speaker, I wish to conclude by saying that while the ministry is operating at 54 per cent capacity in terms of filled-up positions in the current establishment, the recruitment of health workers is a continuous process towards attaining an ideal situation. In order to match the skilled staff to patient ratio, my ministry will continue to lobby for Treasury authority in order to attain staffing sufficiency for improved quality health service provision for better health outcomes and, ultimately, national productivity.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Frist Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the ministerial statement and the questions were supposed to be considered in thirty minutes. However, we have exhausted twenty-one minutes. So, just to be fair to the hon. Members who wish to ask questions, we will add ten more minutes to this segment.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Frist Deputy Speaker: So, we go straight to questions.

Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement rendered by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, in Luena Constituency, we have constructed two new clinics. One is from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) while the other one has been gifted to us by a well-wisher. Given that the two clinics are ready for official opening, could the hon. Minister confirm that her ministry will, within the programme that she has highlighted, prioritise staffing the newly constructed medical facilities, such as the one, in Ituku and Nalulawo in Luena Constituency?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for this question.

Madam Speaker, the statement was quite clear. I stated that we have taken noted of the over 230 health facilities that have so far been constructed and completed. I also indicated that in terms of staffing, we will require a mixed staff ratio of over 7,000 workers for the over 230 health facilities. As regards the one the hon. Member is talking about and wondering whether it will be one of those that will benefit in terms of staff being deployed there, he has to wait for me to check and confirm, since he said that it has not even been officially handed over. However, we have taken into account facilities that are already at the roof level. So, even if it has not been officially handed over, since it is complete, it has been captured. This is why I indicated at the end that we will continue to lobby for Treasury authority to continuously give us a number. The good news is that next year, we have authority for another 4,000. In fact, this year, we already have 3,000 and, next year, we will have another for 4,000. So, we will keep on moving and hopefully, in the next few years, we will be able to, at least, reach 90 per cent.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister will bear with me because her statement seems to be very confusing.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, people picked a complaint from the letter that was written by the Civil Service Commission (CSC). The hon. Minister is saying that the whole exercise will be in phases, whereby the ministry will, first of all, promote and then recruit. Looking at the period, is the ministry going to manage to recruit 3,000 health workers by the end of December 2023? Should the ministry not be saying that the money that was supposed to be given to the newly-recruited staff will go to payment of the newly-promoted staff so that people start looking forward to next year bearing in mind that there will be no recruitment because the money has now gone to those who are going to be promoted? Thereafter, the ministry can start recruiting new staff.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I think, the hon. Member’s question is the one confusing him. In my statement, I was very clear in stating that we have already finished promoting those who are supposed to be promoted. That is what I said. So, those who are supposed to be promoted have since been promoted. What is remaining is for the PSMD to issue letters of promotion. Hon. Members must know that the function of recruiting does not only lie with the Ministry of Health, but with the CSC. So, we work hand-in-hand, and because we are the end-users, obviously, we participate very actively. For example, and like I indicated, when it comes to the issue of promoting, every facility makes a proposal. For instance, the supervisor in a clinic, hospital, at a district office or at the provincial office made recommendations to the district or province and the ministry as to whom they wanted to be promoted. That was after consultation with the over ten associations. So, we have finished with that process and have already recommended which doctors or nurses need to be promoted and so on and so forth. What is remaining is for the CSC to issue the letters, and that cannot take a week. That is point number one.

Madam Speaker, point number two is that there is a net effect in promotions. In some cases, one promotion created maybe, five new jobs or three promotions reduced the positions to two. At the end of the day, the good news is that we are still going to end up with the 3,000 promoted and 3,000 recruited staff. So, we are winning in both cases. We have motivated workers, some of whom have been working for over ten years without having been promoted. Further, we will also recruit new people. So, it is a two-pronged approach that we took.

Madam Speaker, the question is whether we are able to take on board the new recruits before end of this year, and the answer is yes, we should be able to do that. Although 3,000 sounds like a big number, you realise that after the positions were shared by the various associations, the number of doctors to be employed is only about 327 while that of nurses is only 600. When you divide that 600 by the ten provinces, you will find that there may be only sixty new recruits in a province. Then when you divide that sixty by the number of health facilities or districts, you will find that a district like Chongwe only has ten recruits. Therefore, recruiting ten or 100 people is one day’s job.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, there are districts like Nalolo, which indicate staff complements of people in the Ministry of Health who are actually not there. It is either some of them are on study leave in Russia or the facility just does not have any. For example, we did not have a doctor in Nalolo until I requested for one.

Madam Speaker, in its current recruitment process, has the Government reconciled the number of people to be recruited versus the actual staff complements on the ground so that it can be sure, even as it promotes people, that it is not reducing further the number of staff needed.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the very good question he has asked.

Madam Speaker, it is true that the establishment of the Ministry of Health has many challenges. We have a lot of work to do to ensure that we do not continue with what I call ghost workers. It is true that we have people in the establishment. For example, you have a hospital, such as Chitokoloki in the North-Western Province where the establishment shows that it has nine pharmacists working, but when you go on the ground, you find that it has none. The people are not there. They could be working in another hospital in the country. If they are working in Government, then you are lucky because at least, they are working, but they are getting their salaries from a different pay point. However, you will find that there are others who may be working for a private firm, but receiving a salary and holding on to that position in Government. So, we have those challenges. This will take a bit of time to clean up, but we are trying very hard to clean up the system. Even for this recruitment exercise, those are some of the reasons you are seeing us going forward and, sometimes, stopping. It is because we are discovering a number of issues.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, the people of Mandevu are grateful for this opportunity. They have been crying for equitable employment opportunities. This current process of recruiting from the districts has not been good. It has been very disadvantageous to us in the urban areas.

Madam Speaker, you find that Chongwe is one constituency and a district on its own. The same is true of Rufunsa. In Lusaka, we have seven constituencies falling under one district. Our numbers, just in Mandevu, are four, five times those in rural districts, and the Government is employing through the districts. This has resulted in our members being left out most of the time.

Madam Speaker, are we going to see the ministry decentralise to the constituency level so that even our members from the constituencies can participate and get employment from the Government?

Mr Nkombo: Which members?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for this important question. It is important that he has talked of Lusaka being disadvantaged because it is one district with seven large constituencies. I wish he could say the same about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I would say the same about the CDF because Chongwe is a large district with only one Member of Parliament and one allocation of the CDF while Lusaka is a small district where one can walk from Mandevu to Munali, yet the CDF it gets is seven times more than what Chongwe gets.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, let me now come to the hon. Member’s specific question.

Mr C. Chibuye: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr C. Chibuye rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Resume your seat. You have not been given the Floor.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, coming to the hon. Member’s question, –

Mr Nkombo: Your nephew.

Mrs Masebo: My nephew, yes.

Madam Speaker, Lusaka District has …

Mr Nkombo: Our prodigal son.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: … six first-level hospitals.

I will make it easy for him to understand.

Madam Speaker, Lusaka District has six first-level hospitals while Chongwe only has one. Further, we are trying to increase the number to seven so that every constituency can have a hospital. There are sub-districts that are supported as such. So, the support that goes to Chongwe, in terms of finances, human resources and many other things, is six times less. So, you are covered because this Government talks equity, not fake equalisation, no. We are very sensitive to those issues, and His Excellency has given us strict guidance to ensure that all the ten provinces, 116 districts and 156 constituencies of Zambia are served equally. That is what we are doing. So, the hon. Member should not worry.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order, as I do not agree with the word ‘fake’ because, I think, it is unparliamentary. My point of order is that when the hon. Minister mocks her staff who are earning salaries, which she calls “ka salary” just because her staff do not have an opportunity to tender using direct bidding and have no opportunity to buy drugs that are non-compliant –

Hon. Government Members: Question.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mock her own workers who are earning salaries and call their salaries “ka salary”?

I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you cite the Standing Order that has been breached.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, you may have a point, but the way you have raised your point of order, especially the use of the word “mocking”, paints a bad picture to the people. In fact, it portrays negativity to the health workers. It was going to be better if you had raised the point of order in a non-provoking or non-demeaning way, or creating a wrong picture. We are supposed to be the ones helping health workers. However, the use of the word “mocking” means different things to different people.

With that said, Hon. Minister of Health, please, try to be not so provocative. Try to say things the way they are. If it is a salary, let it be mentioned as a salary. If the salary is small, it is better to find a better way to describe it or come up with a word that will not injure people.

Hon. Minister, did you say –

Interruptions

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think, that was the time I was receiving a note from somebody.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker conferred with the Clerks-at-the-Table.

Madam Deputy Speaker: So, the word that came out so strongly was “fake”, but we did not hear if the other one was also utter. We did not hear that. So, we have to confirm with the verbatim record if it was, indeed uttered. However, as I have advised, let us try to use words that will not injure people or create wrong meanings. Let us also not provoke other people.

Hon. Minister, the word ‘fake’ is also unparliamentary. So, as you continue responding to hon. Members, she will take into consideration unparliamentary words.

We make progress.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me, the voice of the people of Chienge, to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about employing health workers. I believe that we have those we call Community Health Assistants and, as a nation, I think, we have been unfair to those people each time we are recruiting. So, my question to the hon. Minister is: When are we going to give Community Health Assistants permanent employment? This has been the cry. Each time there is an advertisement, it only talks about nurses, doctors and clinical officers. This is the challenge that we have had in the whole country. May I know from the hon. Minister of Health why we do not include the Community Health Assistants in recruitment exercises?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this very important supplementary question. You may recall that when I was reading out the different categories of staff under the ministry, I did also say that the categories were broad. For example, under administration, you may get Community Health Assistants or they may be placed under clinical officers or environmental health and so on and so forth. So, I want to say that almost all cadres, if not all, were considered in the recruitment exercise.

Madam Speaker, let me also state that some Community Health Assistants have been put on the payroll. Every year, we have an allocation for them, and we are also supported in some instances by co-operating partners. So, yes, we do take that into account. We are employing them as well.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I would like to know if this recruitment is based on a needs assessment. You may find that one facility has an establishment of thirteen health workers, but only gets one or two. Further, what criterion is used in this kind of recruitment? Is it based on the needs of each health facility?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, the recruitment is based on the needs of facilities What happened is that the districts and the provinces articulated their needs and sent those to the centre, which is the Ministry of Health. Upon getting the needs, the ministry carried out an assessment and, of course, looking at the available positions, the workers were shared among the ten provinces. Suffice it for me to say that the needs are more than what we have on the plate.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Bwana Mkubwa, through me, to ask the hon. Minister of Health a question.

Madam Speaker, I have heard the ministerial statement, and I do appreciate the recruitment of health workers. Eleven thousand health workers were recruited and, now, 3,000 are going to be recruited. In her statement, the hon. Minister said that most hospitals and clinics have obsolete equipment. How is she equating that to the recruitment of health workers?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for a very important question which, I hope, I got right. His question is how to equate numbers to equipment.

Madam Speaker, if I heard him right, then, the answer is be that we have some equipment that requires to be managed by qualified engineers. Sometimes, we have lost equipment because the people using it are not very qualified to operate it. So, in all scenarios of recruitment, you are in a situation in which the number of those recruited is small, the needs are beyond you and you are trying to balance things up. You ask which one is important? Is it to get a doctor, a Community Health Assistant or a nurse? Again, when you talk about nurses, is it to get a regular nurse or a midwife? You also look at the problem of mothers losing babies. So, it is not easy. We just hope that the hon. Members can support us as we continue trying to get more financial support towards recruitment. As I indicated, we are at 54 per cent. This means that we have a difference of 54 per cent in terms of the vacancies to be filled.

Madam Speaker, let me just indicate that the number of Community Health Assistants who will be recruited this year is ninety.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to ask a supplementary question to the hon. Minister of Health. I also want to thank the hon. Minister for this very comprehensive statement about the challenges and opportunities in the health sector.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that there are 3,581 health facilities across the country, of which 3,419 are for the Government and 162 are faith-based facilities. However, there is a huge deficit in terms of filling up the establishment of the workforce. The hon. Minister has also informed us that the Government is in the process of promoting in-service health workers. My question, therefor, is: What is the direct relationship between the promotion of in-service health workers and the recruitment of new entrants? What condition should the promotion of in-service health workers fulfil to start the recruitment of new entrants in the health sector?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this important question, but I am not sure if I heard him correctly and whether he was asking what the relationship between promoting and recruiting is.

Madam Speaker, last year, 2022, you will recall that for the over 11,000 health workers we recruited, we just went straight to recruit new entrants. This time around, we, as a ministry, made the policy decision, after being granted the Treasury authority, to recruit 3,000 health workers, to use part of that number to promote nurses, doctors and other health workers who have been working tirelessly for over five years and are on a low salaries because there is no money to promote them. We were losing specialised doctors to the private sector because of their being on low salaries. For example, we have a consultant or specialised doctor who has been working for many years and his educational standards have even gone up, but the salary is still the same as that of a junior doctor. So, obviously, when such people get job offers from the private sector or international organisations, they leave Government institutions. So, to try and retain them and also motivate those who do not want to go away; those who want to serve their nation, we made the policy decision to promote some individuals.

The relationship between promotion and recruitment is that when you promote one person, you create vacancies for other people. That person might have remained on that lower level position because there has been no money to promote them, but we promoted that person say, to the position of Chief Clinical Officer. Because of that promotion, the impact is that there are four other vacancies that will be created, and it means that we would have to start moving others four steps up which, finally, leaves a vacancy. As I said, we took a two-pronged approach to make in-service promotions and then fill the positions that remained vacant as a result of the promotions. So, that is the effect, if I am right.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Firstly, on behalf of the people of Mongu Central, I want to commend the Government for its drive in recruiting health workers.

Madam Speaker, there are a number of medical doctors who were taken from the provinces and brought to Lusaka on the pretext that they were coming to undergo specialised training. I know that in the Western Province, over ten doctors who were taken for that training, but we have not seen them go back to the province. When are those medical personnel going back to the provinces to beef up the provision of services in our hospitals?

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, it is true that we have a skewed kind of situation in which most of our doctors are in Lusaka, on the Copperbelt, and on the line of rail, and we have a problem in rural areas. Some doctors who were deployed to work in rural areas came back to Lusaka for further training and, after they finished, they did not go back because there were no positions for them, meaning that we needed to create higher positions. This is one of the reasons the Government agreed to support the recruitment of more workers and promotion of others to help those who are in town so that we give them new promotions to work in the Western Province. All I can say is that we are working towards that will, hopefully, within the next two weeks or before the end of this year, this issue will be resolved. We are working with various associations to distribute doctors to the whole country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ZAMBIA NATIONAL SERVICE OFFICERS HARASSING TRADERS AT KALINDI AND KILUMBA CHECKPOINTS

146. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Defence:

whether the Government is aware that the Zambia National Service officers at Kalindi and Kilumba checkpoints on the Mushindamo/Kipushi Border Road have been harassing and beating up traders who carry maize grain to Kipushi Border market for trade; and

if so, what urgent measures are being taken to safeguard the lives of the local traders and promote free trade in the area.

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the ministry is not aware of the harassment and beating up of traders by the Zambia National Service (ZNS) officers managing the two checkpoints, namely Kalindi and Kilumba that have been mentioned. The ZNS has been in the general area of Mushindamo since 2016 while the two checkpoints were established in 2022. In fact, the checkpoints were established after discussing with the hon. Member for the area, who advised us to establish them to enable us to clamp down on the smuggling that was rampant in the area.

Madam Speaker, since the ministry is not aware, as it has not received reports of the alleged harassment, there are no special measures that have been put in place, save for the continued monitoring and reminders by the ZNS Command at all checkpoints throughout the country, not excluding the two in question, for the officers to man checkpoints as per stipulations and with utmost integrity and professionalism. Anything short of that and the officers, individual or severally, shall be held accountable and, if found wanting, shall face the law.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial –

Oh sorry. These are supposed to be supplementary questions.

Hon. Member for Solwezi East, you may proceed.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, it is quite saddening to hear the hon. Minister indicate that he is not aware of what is happening. The hon. Provincial Minister, Mr Lihefu, is seated there (pointing at Mr Lihefu) and is very much aware of the happenings at Kipushi Border. The area is the only gazetted market we have in Mushindamo. All our people there do their trading at that point. What is currently obtaining on the ground is that the Zambia National Service (ZNS) people who have been put at those checkpoints allow trucks carrying maize and mealie meal to offload at the border in the night passing through the same checkpoints, but our local people who just carry one bag to go and sell on the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) side so that they can realise money to buy medicine and better their livelihoods are being beaten up. Right now, (Holding up his cellular phone) I have received a message from my Chief who has been threatened by the ZNS people that if he intervenes in their confiscation of maize from his people, they will slap him. This is a Chief lamenting, and it is happening. Last time, we had a conference call with the hon. Minister of Agriculture, the hon. Minister of Defence and other jurisdictions, and it was discussed that the ZNS people should mount their checkpoints by the border and patrol the border line, and leave the market free for people to trade because that is how those people have lived. However, people from the DRC, when they buy maize or mealie meal after crossing over, they should be levied by Customs so that the country realises revenue. Currently, people are being beaten up. This is why you heard the hon –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What is your question? You have given us a very good background. Now, ask your question.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister is not aware, it should not take him by surprise when the people there, who have actually organised themselves, to go to battle with the ZNS and break shops owned by people from the DRC, who are being allowed to sell truckloads of maize and mealie meal. So, since the hon. Minister is now aware, is he going to do anything to avoid the situation that is about to erupt in my constituency?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the fact that the hon. Minister for the North-Western Province might have been aware does not necessary mean that the Minister of Defence is also aware.

Nevertheless, the mandate of the ZNS on the Kipushi Border or any other border is to control the rampant smuggling that is going on throughout this country. People may not be aware, but it is very serious. National food security is national security and we, as the ZNS, are doing all that is in our power to ensure that we bring smuggling under control. Otherwise, what will happen is that this country will run out of maize and mealie meal, and the result will be riots in this country. Like the saying goes, a hungry man is an angry man. That is what we would like to prevent. So, I would like to ask all the citizens, including leaders, to co-operate with the ZNS. The officers cannot deliberately start beating up individuals who are carrying one or two bags of mealie meal unless they are mad. They cannot do that.

Madam Speaker, it is very difficult for me to conceptualise a ZNS officer, at a roadblock, allowing trucks to go through, but not allow an individual, a small-scale farmer, to get one bag of maize meal for consumption. It is inconceivable. I, therefore, think, we need to organise a small committee from our side to go and investigate this matter so that we put it to rest. This is because I do not want to have a situation in which the small-scale farmer is being victimised to the advantage of smugglers who are taking truckloads of mealie meal into the DRC. For me, that would be the best solution so that we put this issue to rest.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, that is the answer I expected. Where possible, the hon. Minister should also engage the Mobile Units because there are other loop holes where the smuggling is taking place. The Mobile Units can go and mount patrols there.

Madam Speaker, regarding what the hon. Minister has indicated, how soon will it be undertaken? I commit myself to being part of that committee. I am ready to go there even tomorrow. We can, actually, go there so that we put this matter to rest. Otherwise, we will soon see people being killed like the case was in Kankoyo, where a boy was shot at by ZNS officers. So, I will be waiting for that committee to be formed .

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member’s commitment to this cause but he should give us the luxury of time for us to be able to plan. I will inform him as soon as we are ready.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, whilst we appreciate the role that the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is playing in ensuring that we maintain the national food basket or security, it is evident from the concern of the hon. Member that, indeed, harassment was there. Now that the hon. Minister of Defence is aware of the happenings, what is the Government’s advice to the ZNS officers regarding the harassment? We do not want to see a repeat of what happened in Kankoyo yesterday. What is the hon. Minister’s advice to the ZNS officers?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, to some extent, I covered this question. However, let me state that the officers are asked to be as professional as they can. That is what is expected of the ZNS officers. They are there for a purpose and that is not to harass the small individuals who are carrying one or two bags of mealie meal for consumption. Their role is control smuggling, which is rife as I am speaking. Therefore, my advice is that the citizens of the Republic of Zambia should co-operate with the ZNS soldiers who are trying to control the smuggling. Similarly, the the ZNS officers should co-operate fully and be as professional as they can be to ensure that this scourge is brought to an end, or at least, is controlled. Other than that, if the citizens go out of the way and break the law, this Government has always maintained that they will be on their own. I do not encourage the ZNS officers to break the law. However, if they break the law, they are on their own. Further, as I said in my statement, then, the law will take its course. So, let them work professionally and to everybody’s satisfaction.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Charles. Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, we continue to receive numerous complaints from across the country on the poor performance and operations of the Zambia National Services (ZNS). A few minutes ago, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kankoyo raised a very serious issue relating to the innocent boy who was killed. When we talk of smuggling, if you go across the borders of Zambia and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), you will find stacks of mealie meal from Zambia that passed through these same routes that are being manned by the ZNS on a twenty-four hour basis.

Madam Speaker, is there any possibility of the Government making changes and bringing in another security wing other than the ZNS to man those important routes leading to border areas? I mean security wings like the Zambia Army or Zambia Police Service. Why not make a change so that the Government can make comparisons on the operations of other security wings?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the manning of these checkpoints is not exclusive to the ZNS. In fact, we encourage a combination of the Zambia Police Service (ZP), the ZNS and other security wings for the purpose of ensuring that there is integrity and no corruption is practised by those groups. So, by integrating other security forces, we hope, we can override the vice of corruption and ensure that smuggling is controlled. In fact, some of the leaders are involved in smuggling. We know them and we shall nab them. A human being is, by nature, so complicated that even if you put roadblocks, you will find that, somehow, mealie meal still finds its way into the DRC, not because the ZNS is complacent and not doing its job, but because people have found various tricks to ensure that mealie meal gets its way to the DRC. Further, deploying the Zambia Army to be deployed on missions like the one being proposed by the hon. Member has some complications because we are constrained by international law from doing what he would like us to do. So, as much as possible, we do not use the Zambia Army but rather a combination of the ZNS, ZP and other security wings. You will also find that there is the Office of the President Special Division (OP). At other times, we involve officers from the Department of Immigration. So, it is a combination of these. We hope, that way, we can do the best to ensure that food security is assured in Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF TOWNSHIP ROADS IN KABWATA CONSTITUENCY

147. Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

how many kilometres of township roads are earmarked for construction in Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency under the L400 Road Project; and
what the cost of the project is.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, there are currently no kilometers of township roads that are earmarked for construction in Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency under the Lusaka 400 Kilometre (L400) Protect. The L400 Project was, as a matter of fact, executed under our sister Ministry, the Ministry of Infrastructure and Urban Development through the Road Development Agency (RDA). The contract has since been cancelled due to budgetary constraints.

Madam Speaker, consequent to my answer to part (a) of the question, part (b) of the question falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabwata, do you have a follow-up question?

Mr Tayengwa: No, Madam Speaker. I am satisfied with the answer that the hon. Minister has given.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 mandates the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to rehabilitate and develop bituminous roads in urban areas.

Madam Speaker, how much has the ministry provided for this function in the 2024 Budget? We cannot continue seeing the ministry not working on any roads.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mandevu, my son, for that emphatic question. Unfortunately, he has caught me on my back foot because I do not have the exact figures, save for me to say that in the 2024 Budget, we have provided money …

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Mr Nkombo: … for upgrading certain township roads to bituminous standard. I can confirm, off-the-cuff, that Choma, Sinazongwe and a few towns up north are among those where township roads will be upgraded. Mazabuka is also one of them, if you want to know.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (Amendments) BILL, 2023

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Local Government (Amendment) Bill No. 28 of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the object of the Bill is to amend the Local Government Act of 2019 so as to remove the restriction on the use of the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF) for capital expenditure.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Firs Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee of on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs and the Committee on Local Government Accounts. The Chairperson of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs shall preside over the proceedings of the joint Committee.

The joint Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 7^th December, 2023. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

THE SUBORDINATE COURT (Amendment) BILL, 2023

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Subordinate Court (Amendment) Bill, 2023. The object of the Bill is to amend the Subordinate Court Act so as to:

provide for the constitution of divisions of the Subordinate Court;

revise the provisions relating to the civil jurisdiction of the Subordinate Court;

empower the Chief Justice to set limits of the civil jurisdiction of magistrates by statutory instrument;

provide for the holding of sessions in the Subordinate Court; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 7^th December, 2023.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

SECOND READING

THE TRADEMARKS BILL, 2023

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chipoka Mulenga)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity given to me to present my statement on the Trade Marks Bill No. 11 of 2023. As you are aware, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry is responsible for registering intellectual property rights, and formalising businesses through the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA). This is done through the registration of intellectual property rights such as trademarks, copyright and industrial designs and the registration of business names or companies with the ultimate objective of fostering trade. Among other intellectual property laws administered by the Agency are the Patents Act and the Industrial Designs Act. The Agency also administers the Trade Marks Act.

Madam Speaker, the current Trade Marks Act, Chapter 401, was enacted in 1958. The purpose of the legislation was to provide a legal framework for the registration and protection of trademarks. The Act was amended in 1980 and in 1994 through the Trade Marks (Amendment) Act No. 17 of 1980 and No. 13 of 1994. These amendments were, however, not adequate to bring the law in, conformity with international standards. For example, the Act does not provide protection for well-known trademarks, there is no provision for registration of service marks and there is no provision for border enforcement measures to prevent importation or exportation of goods that infringe the rights of a trademark holder. It is for these reasons that the Trade Marks Act is being repealed and replaced in order to address the identified gaps.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that the Trade Marks Act of 1958 is being repealed in order to address the identified gaps in the law, thereby bringing our trademarks law into conformity with the minimum international standards. The need to provide for adequate provisions that may help to protect and administer trademarks in Zambia prompted the repeal of the Trade Marks Act, Chapter 401, and its replacement by a new Trade Marks Act.

Madam Speaker, the objects of the Bill are to:

provide for the registration and protection of trademarks and geographical indications;

provide for the rights conferred by the registration of trademarks and geographical indications;

provide for the effects of registration of trademarks and geographical indications;

provide for civil and criminal enforcement for infringement of registered trademarks and geographical indications;

domesticate the Madrid Protocol relating to the International Registration of Marks, the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property, and the World Trade Organisation (WTO) Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights;

repeal and replace the Trade Marks Act, 1958; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, the Trade Marks Bill of 2023, once enacted, will continue being implemented by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry through PACRA. The Bill will introduce the registration and protection of service marks, recognise and protect geographical indications, recognise and protect well-known trademarks, introduce a multi-class application system, enhance enforcement and give effect to the relevant international treaties to which Zambia is a State party.

Madam Speaker, the Bill provides for the registration of service marks, which will enable the service sector in Zambia to seek legal protection for marks which are used to distinguish services from those of other service providers in the market. The Bill will also provide for the protection of geographical indications. These are unique names or signs by which a product is identified as originating from a particular geographical location. Geographical indications describe a product as having certain qualities, characteristics or reputation which are exclusively or essentially associated with a specific geographical origin. The protection of geographical indications is likely to enhance the value of products that are deeply rooted in tradition, culture and geography, thereby supporting rural development and promoting new job opportunities in local communities.

Madam Speaker, PACRA has been charged with the mandate of registration of international marks. This Bill will introduce in Zambia the procedure for making and receiving international applications for the registration of marks under the Madrid Protocol, to which Zambia is a State party. That will enable Zambian businesses and individuals to obtain trademark protection in multiple countries through a single application filled at PACRA. The purpose of this provision is to simplify the procedure for, and reduce the cost of, registering a trademark in multiple countries.

Madam Speaker, the Bill also introduces the Border Enforcement Measures, which will provide for the restrictions of importation of counterfeit trademark goods. The Government recognises that infringing goods, especially counterfeit trademark goods and pirated copyright goods, cause harm to the economy and threaten the health and safety of our people. Therefore, the Border Enforcement Measures will be introduced through this law to facilitate the detection of counterfeit goods originating from abroad and seize and suspend their release into circulation at their point of entry.

Madam Speaker, it is expected that once enacted, the Bill will repeal the Trade Marks Act, Chapter 401 of the Laws of Zambia, and replace it with a new legislation that will provide adequate provisions that will help protect and administer the registration of trademarks in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, the repeal and replacement of the Trade Marks Act Chapter 401 of the Laws of Zambia, will help us to address the gaps identified in the law and bring the trademarks law in conformity with international best practices. Once implemented, the Bill is also likely to enhance the value of products that are deeply rooted in tradition, culture and geography, thereby supporting rural development and promoting new job opportunities in local communities.

Madam Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Members of this august House to fully support this Bill.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I beg to present the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on the Trade Marks Bill No. 11 of 2023, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 15^th November, 2023.

Madam Speaker, in line with the terms of reference set out in the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Order, 2021, the Committee was tasked to consider the Trade Marks Bill No. 11 of 2023. The Committee has the pleasure to present its report on the Bill.

Madam Speaker, since the hon. Members have read the report, I will only highlight a few salient issues that your Committee encountered while considering the Bill. I wish to state, from the outset, that your Committee supports the Bill and, therefore, urge, the House to support this non-controversial Bill.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Bill intends to bring the Zambian Trade Mark law in tandem with the minimum standards of the Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property (TRIPS) Agreement, which came into effect on 1^st January, 1995. The Trademarks Bill No. 11 of 2023 will give effect to the Madrid Protocol, which relates to the international registration of Trademarks as well as the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property. The Bill will also facilitate the domestication and introduction into the Zambian trademarks law of the registration and protection of service marks and geographical indications, recognise and allow for the registration of less traditional forms of trademarks, such as three-dimensional signs, audible signs or factory signs, and enhance enforcement provisions as well as introduce border measures in order to combat counterfeit products and prevent them from entering the local market.

Madam Speaker, considering that all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee supported the Bill, allow me to highlight a few salient issues that arose during the Committee’s deliberations.

Madam Speaker, your Committee notes that Clause 51 provides for the safeguarding of well-known trademarks. A well-known trademark is defined as one that is widely acknowledged in the Republic as belonging to an individual from a conventional state, a resident there or having a legitimate industrial or commercial presence in the country. However, your Committee noted that there is a lack of awareness among members of the public as well as some businesses regarding the significance and legal consequences of using a well-known trademark. In this vein, your Committee recommends that the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA) establishes a rapid registration system that will expedite the registration and protection procedures for well-known trademarks. In addition, specific guidelines and a streamlined process should be put in place to prevent delays as well as the potential for foreign entities to register the trademarks before ordinary Zambians get the chance to do so.

Madam Speaker, Clause 97 provides for the application process for the registration of a geographical indication. This clause outlines the steps involved in applying for the registration of a name or sign that defines a product as originating from a specific geographical location. Such indications tie a product to particular quantities, characteristics or reputation associated primarily with a specific geographical origin. However, your Committee notes a lack of public awareness regarding the necessity of trademarks for such products and the potential for well-funded institutions to exploit local products by registering them. Your Committee, therefore, implores PACRA to embark on a robust awareness campaign to educate local producers on the requirements and procedures for obtaining and maintaining geographical indication status. That educational effort may include providing financial assistance, technical guidance and capacity-building programmes.

Madam Speaker, the Committee further notes that Clause 118 outlines the responsibilities of a trademark agent, which involves representing the applicant during the trademark registration process as specified in the Bill. The clause also provides that a trademark agent should possess a minimum of five years of experience to be eligible to practise as an agent. This requirement might result in high fees, making it unaffordable for ordinary Zambians to access the services of agents. In this regard, your Committee is of the view that it would be prudent to allow any legally registered legal firm to act as a trademark agent and suggests removing the five years’ experience requirement from the Bill. This adjustment is aimed at making the services of agents more accessible and avoiding imposing potential barriers on ordinary citizens seeking the services.

Madam Speaker, urge all hon. Members of this august House to support the Bill, as it is not controversial.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to render my sincere gratitude to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to the Committee throughout its deliberations. Gratitude also goes to all the stakeholders who rendered both written and oral submissions to your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I am eternally grateful for the overwhelming support that this Bill has received.

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Eng. Milupi: I hear someone saying “question!”, but silence means support.

Madam Speaker, I am thankful to the Committee chairperson, the hon. Member for Mwandi, for the points that your Committee has raised, specifically on the protection of well-known trademarks. As a ministry, we hear what has been said. We have also taken note of what has been said regarding the establishment of a rapid registration process for PACRA and enhancement knowledge in terms of the rights of people. I think, the ministry, together with the relevant agencies, will work on the matters that have been highlighted by your\ Committee.

With that, Madam Speaker, I thank the House for the support.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 28^th November, 2023.

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COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 18 – (Judiciary – K890,697,821)

(Consideration resumed)

The Deputy Chairperson: I would like to remind the House that debate on this Vote was started on Friday. Some hon. Members already debated. So, we will only allow a few.

Mr Chala (Mafinga): Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended last Friday, I was saying that there is no justification for me to not support the budget for this very important institution.

Mr Chairperson, the Judiciary is the cornerstone of our society, as it is charged with the sacred duty of interpreting the law and settling disputes, hence its being critical in the maintenance of the rule of law. This institution must be allowed to operate freely, without any political interference and without the Executive taking a position on any matter, especially if the matter is before a court of law. That would be interference. So, we are urging the Executive to ensure that the professionalism and independence of this institution is maintained as the institution executes its duties.

Mr Chairperson, in any constitutional democracy, ‘judicial’ is the central theme of the constitution of any country like Zambia. As politicians, we always want to interfere in the operations of organisations, especially when an organisation has disputes. So, I would like to urge my fellow politicians to not interfere, but allow the Judiciary and its officers to make their own independent decisions as a professional body. Let them exhibit professionalism without any interference.

Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chala: Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support the budget and urge everyone to not have any hand in the operations of the Judiciary.

I thank you, Sir

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Katombola Constituency, to add my voice to the debate on this very important Vote for the Judiciary, Vote 18.

Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the people of Katombola, I wish to begin by saying that I support the allocation of funds to the Judiciary. Actually, I would have wished for much more, save for the limitations of the resource envelope.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to address the importance of the Judiciary in the promotion of the rule of law and good governance. The Judiciary is a very important arm of the Government that requires enough resources, funding and support in order to promote the rule of law and it remains pivotal in the defence of human rights.

Mr Chairperson, the House may be aware of where we are coming from, whereby the violation of human rights was rampant and serious, but the Judiciary has stood firm. Therefore, on behalf of the people of Katombola Constituency, I want to support judicial independence. We must ensure that the Judiciary, as an institution, is independent so that the individual autonomy of judicial officers can be protected.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to also refer to the issues of desires of the time for serious reforms in the Judiciary in the sense that there have been many challenges regarding delayed judgements. Many of our people have been detained or are under detention for longer periods of time. In this regard, on behalf of the people of Katombola, I would like to place it on record that the Judiciary must pull up its socks and, by all means, dispose of court matters within the shortest possible period. We are aware of the limitations in terms of shortage of manpower that the Judiciary faces and that it is still operating manually because it is not yet digitalised. However, I still would like to appeal to the Judiciary to ensure that the problem of delayed judgements and backlog of cases is addressed as soon as yesterday. The delayed judgements cause extra-judicial detentions of our people. For example, there are people who are in detention, yet the case was closed a year ago. That is because a judgement has not been rendered. I would like to appeal to the Judiciary to ensure that the problem of backlog of cases and delayed judgments is addressed.

Mr Chairperson, addressing the issue of overcrowding in detention facilities is the responsibility of judicial officers. They need to ensure that suspects or pre-trial detainees are taken before court within reasonable time. Many people, particularly those who have no access to legal representation, have had to remain in custody for longer periods, such as four, five or even seven months before somebody could see the court room. Therefore, I would like to appeal the Judiciary to ensure that its officers check on people in detention facilities.

Mr Chairperson, while I support judicial independence, allow me to address one controversial subject. I want to refer to the issue of judicial accountability. On behalf of the people of Katombola, I would like to ensure that the Judiciary remains accountable, and Judges and officers report on time. We do not want a situation in which a person goes to court early, but the Judge only arrives at 1100 hours. So far, the people of Katombola are very happy with the performance of the Judiciary. It is performing very well. Therefore, we would like to urge it to continue on that path.

Sir, on behalf of the people of Katombola, I think that the Judiciary must start beaming live proceedings of a controversial nature and of public interest so that the people of Zambia can follow. Apart from members of the public following the proceedings, the Judiciary can also account for the people it has employed. Handling these matters publicly will enable our people to follow cases, they be they Presidential petitions or whatever it could be.

Mr Chairperson, I want to thank the Judiciary for its standing and being steadfast. I have not had serious problems with its performance, but I feel that the it can do more. I am aware of the limitations it is faced with, such as inadequate space, inadequate members of staff, the dilapidated infrastructure and a lack of transport and modernised infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, generally, the people of Katombola are in support of the Vote that has been allocated to the Judiciary, but wish that the Judiciary could be decentralised into Katombola Constituency and Katombola District, in particular so that we do not have to ferry our people over long distances for them to attend court hearings in Kalomo or Livingstone.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Katombola are in absolute support of the allocation given to the Judiciary. Therefore, I want to thank you for the opportunity and wish the Judiciary well as it dispenses justice in this Republic.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafulata): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me the opportunity to add my voice, on behalf of the people of Kafulafuta, to the debate on the Floor.

Sir, let me start by saying that the people of Kafulafuta are in full support of the budget for this Vote. However, in one sense, I feel that the amount allocated is on the lower side, considering the fact that recently, we had people who were appointed to serve as Judges in the Constitutional Court, Court of Appeal and the High Court, some of whom come from the private sector where their earnings were determined by how hard they worked. So, the people of Kafulafuta are of the view that this Vote needed to receive a bit more finances to ensure that there is a cushion for the newly-appointed Judges so that we do not have problems with issues of corruption, looking at the fact that this is a very critical institution.

Sir, from my few interactions with the Judiciary, I have been impressed with the way some matters have been handled, although we still seem to be grappling with delays in disposition of cases. So, as Kafulafutians, we fully support the budget and feel that …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Laughter

Mr Mulebwa: Mr Chairperson, I maintain my stance that this Vote needs a bit more funding. I would also like to say that the people of Kafulafuta would like to see a situation in which Judges and Magistrates are not kept in one station for too long. Otherwise, they would become familiar with the surroundings, and that might cause us problems. I am saying this because I have interacted with a few people from the Judiciary, and I know some of them have been where they have been for a very long time. When an officer in those offices is transferred, obviously, there will be more money needed for moving their goods, looking for their housing accommodation and so on and so forth.

Mr Chairperson, I note that the allocation for furniture is K72,000,000 and, like I said earlier, we had Judges who were appointed recently. So, I feel that this amount is not adequate to meet the needs.

Sir, as always, as a man of few words, I wish to make this submission on behalf of the people of Kafulafuta.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving the people of Chadiza an opportunity, through me, to add their voice to the debate on this very important Vote.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Chadiza are in full support of this Vote and would like to tender their appreciation to the Government for having been supporting this institution in the past two years.

Mr Katakwe: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Daka: Mr Chairperson, in the last two years, we have seen that the Government has been funding this institution to an extent where we have seen a lot of progress in a number of its activities.

Mr J. Chibuye: Question!

Mr J. Daka: Mr Chairperson, it is not a secret that the Judiciary is one of the most important arms of the Government. The people of Chadiza are aware that the Judiciary is facing a number of challenges, especially in the infrastructure sector.

Mr Chairperson, you may have noticed a trend whereby the Government has been appointing Judges without a corresponding increase in the construction of courtrooms. There are some courts that have been established, like the Court of Appeal and the Constitutional Court, and if you look at where the Court of Appeal is located, you wonder why. An ideal location for a court is where there is silence and order, but the Court of Appeal is located in Kamwala, where there is total disorder. I would like to appeal to the Government to look into that because where that court is located is a total disaster. The court cannot operate properly in that location.

Mr Chairperson, I do not know whether the Constitutional Court has a proper courtroom. We have concentrated too much on the appointment of Judges, which has not corresponded with infrastructure development so that the Judges have courtrooms or chambers. In Solwezi, there are no court rooms for the High Court. When you go to Ndola, you will find that, maybe, there are only two. I do not know if the Ndola High Court even has public toilets.

Mr Chairperson, in a nutshell, what I am trying to say is that we need to support this institution in terms of infrastructure development.

Mr Chairperson, I do not want to bore the House, but my emphasis today has more to do with infrastructure. In 2023, the Judiciary planned to construct ten courtrooms, but what we see is that no courtroom was constructed. So, how do we expect the court to operate properly with no proper courtrooms?

Mr Chairperson, the people of Chadiza do not want to bore the House, but they would like to appeal to the Government to enhance the capacity of the Judiciary with regard to the construction of courtrooms and any other infrastructure that is needed.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Chadiza would like to thank you as they support this Vote.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mung’andu: Quality!

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to add two or three statements to this important debate on the Vote that is on the Floor of this House today.

Mr Chairperson, as we are aware, the Judiciary is one of the three arms of the Government. Of course, its major role is to interpret the law and try to manage the process.

Mr Chairperson, ab initio, I want to register that I support the Vote. Like my hon. Colleagues who have debated, if it was possible, we would wish for more money to be allocated to this Vote. However, with what has been allocated, we still stand to support it. It is very important to make it known, from the word go, that we have noted the increment in the allocation for next year. This means that there are many things that ought to be done by the Judiciary.

Mr Chairperson, we expect the Judiciary to spend a reasonable amount on sensitising people on its functions. If you look at what is happening in the rural set-ups, you will see that people do not understand the role of the Judiciary. We hope that with this increment, there will be an opportunity for a certain amount to be spent on ensuring that the citizens of the country are made aware of the functions of the Judiciary. Further, it is inevitable to indicate that the Judiciary should create rapport with the people. In some instances, when people are called to appear before the courts, they make it clear that the courts are their enemies because of the relationship that is not there. So, we hope that using the same funds, a relationship will be created between the people and the courts and that people will willingly go to court so that their disputes can be resolved.

Mr Chairperson, we are in a democratic country where we encounter so many issues, and everyone hopes that the courts will stand firm all the time to ensure that the laws are interpreted and disputes managed in a befitting manner.

Mr Chairperson, the courts have a duty to ensure that people’s rights are interpreted in a befitting manner. We have a couple of rights or freedom, that are always prone to violation, such as freedom of assembly, freedom of association and freedom of speech. I think that it is important that the Judiciary, particularly the courts, take keen interest in ensuring that people’s rights are always respected, unlike what used to happen in the past, whereby one needed to belong to a certain section in order to enjoy one’s rights. That was ill. Our prayer is that going forward, people shall enjoy their rights across the board, regardless of colour, tribe or political affiliation, as has been the case from the time the New Dawn Government came into power. That is the role of the Judiciary. Further, I want to make it clear that when people say that some judgements are taking too long to be passed, the Judiciary has to ensure that the people’s interests are served. There are a couple of cases that are before the court that have taken long and people have lost interest in them. As we proceed, we want to believe that with these amounts that the Judiciary has been allocated, matters will be handled within reasonable time.

Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I submit.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Chairperson, thank you so much for the opportunity.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to appreciate the hon. Minister for his policy statement. My appeal is that he should take my goodwill message to the Judiciary.

Mr Chairperson, I support the appropriation to the Judiciary because the institution is an anchor of peace in our society.

Mr Chairperson, can you imagine what would happen to this country if we did not have the Judiciary. If the Judiciary did not exist, people would be at the mercy of the politically inclined Executive and politically inclined National Assembly, and that would be a problem. So, the Judiciary –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the

Chair]

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I had just started to support the appropriation to the Judiciary. So, let me continue.

Mr Chairperson, I want to make a submission under just two headings. So, I will be brief. I want to make a submission under the current status and what I consider future requirements. Under the current status, I think, we, as a society, must make the life of the Judiciary easier. We should appreciate the work that the Judiciary does and accord it the necessary independence.

Mr Chairperson, all of us must respect judgments, orders and injunctions that are passed by the Judiciary. Otherwise, we will start hearing that a case that was closed a long time ago has been reopened because people have no respect for the Judiciary.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Chairperson, we will begin to see good citizens who comply with court orders fired from work or transferred from one post to another simply on account of adhering to a court order. It is our responsibility, as people, to make the life of the Judiciary better. People who have no mandate to interpret the Constitution will begin to intercept it if we do not respect the Judiciary. We have examples, which have been referred to even on the Floor of this House such as the elections in Kabushi, and in Kwacha, in Kitwe. A body, seated elsewhere goes about interpreting the Constitution. That must not happen. This is the responsibility of the Judiciary.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: I do not want to raise other cases, which everyone knows that the Constitution has been interpreted and letters written. It is in the public domain. I would like to see a situation in which the Judiciary is respected.

Mr Chairperson, under what I consider as future requirements, I would like the Government to consider capacitating the Judiciary in terms of offering it financial independence. The amount of money going into the Judiciary must be increased. There are areas of savings that can be considered. There are areas of revenue generation that can be considered to grow the Budget and give more money to the Judiciary. Very soon, the Judiciary will have a boom of cases. Does the hon. Minister not consider that the illegal Constituency Development Fund (CDF) procurements that we are seeing now will soon go to court? Does he not consider that the single-sourcing of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) procurements that we are seeing will soon go to court? Does he not consider the fact that single-sourcing of drugs procurement will soon go to court, and impotent drugs were procured for that matter? Very soon, the court will have a lot of work. It is very important that …

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kafwaya: … its scope is expanded.

Mr Chairperson, the illegal audits at the Ministry of Defence will go to court. Those things will go to court. They are just waiting for the right time. When that happens, the Judiciary is going to be overwhelmed.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister needs to know that these matters are very important to the public and the nation, and because of that, growing the capacity of the Judiciary is important.

Mr Chairperson, I want to end by saying that I, on behalf of the people of Lunte, fully support the Judiciary. I think that all of us, well-meaning Zambians, must support the Judiciary and ensure that it is given what is due to it so that it operates in an environment that is not only enabled, but also free from intimidation by those who wield power.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity given to the people of Luena to debate Vote 18, the Judiciary.

Mr Chairperson, the Judiciary is a repository of our constitutional order. In fact, for the record, Article 118(1) provides as follows:

“The judicial authority of the Republic derives from the people of Zambia and shall be exercised in a just manner and such exercise shall promote accountability.”

Mr Chairperson, this is what the people of Zambia voted for because in the years past, the constitutional authority vested in the Judiciary on behalf of the people of Zambia, was never regarded with the sanctity that it deserves.

Mr Amutike: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: Mr Chairperson, we are happy, as the people of Luena, to see that under the New Dawn Government, efforts are being made to restore the integrity, independence and professionalism that the Judiciary is expected to operate with. Obviously, for that to happen, there is a need for more resources to be made available.

Mr Chairperson, indeed, when looking at the Judiciary, some people may be tempted to start bringing in things that have absolutely nothing to do with the Vote under consideration, but it is understandable. In the constitutional democracy we enjoy, parties that are having conflicts be it at a personal level or within their clubs and whether they are registered as political parties or otherwise, are being encouraged to go to court to seek resolutions as opposed to bringing those issues to other platforms where they have no business seeking adjudication. So, we are happy that the Judiciary is stepping forward to perform its role. Our colleagues with disputes are encouraged to pursue that path.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Luena are happy to note that the Judiciary has set very ambitious targets for itself. When you look at the percentages of deliverables, this being an output-based budget, you will see that the percentage of originating summons that it has set to dispose of within seven months; is 80 per cent. You look at the percentage of criminal cases and civil cases and see that the Judiciary has set very ambitious targets for itself. For that to happen, there is a need for more resources to be made available. One is reminded of the fact that the institution has made the pronouncement that soon, it would like to start broadcasting cases as they are being adjudicated on in our courts. For that to happen, certainly, there is a need for part of the budget for procurement of equipment to go towards procuring broadcasting equipment so that the necessary infrastructure for broadcasting court proceedings can be installed. We understand that this cannot all be done in one year, but we hope that in the 2024 Budget, we can see that being implemented. We know that broadcasting court proceedings live is a major part of ensuring that justice is not only served but also seen to be served. It should not only be seen by those who have the opportunity to sit within the court precincts, but even by those around the country and the world.

Mr Chairperson, further, I would like to submit that the ministry should also consider, in dealing with the backlog of cases, an idea that, I think, other hon. Members have talked about today and previously: that of hiring part-time Judges. We appreciate that this might require some amendments to the legal framework, and I would like to indicate that I would be committed, on behalf of the people of Luena, to supporting such amendments as long as they result in justice being dispensed much quicker. As the old adage goes, ‘justice delayed is justice denied’. I think that this institution deserves a lot of support.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to conclude by indicating that often when we talk about the Judiciary, our focus is so much on the justices and we tend to forget that there is a whole cadre of professionals who support the system. So, in future, let us ensure that the support system that aids our justices is well-oiled and motivated. Indeed, because it is the Judiciary, it means that there will be a lot of focus on people in the legal profession at various levels. However, the system needs administrators, accountants and procurement officers. This cadre of employees needs to be recognised for the services. So, issues concerning promotions and incentives in the system must also be considered.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. With those few words, I support this Vote. I wish more money could be allocated to this institution to ensure that the people of Luena also received the justice they deserve even at the local level where they are.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Thank you so much, Mr Chairperson. I appreciate, and I am sure that the people of Chienge also appreciate the opportunity to add their voice to debate on the Vote.

Mr Chairperson, this is a very important budget line that needs to be supported because it is where we can see justice in our country. The Judiciary is a place that would be like the last bus stop for any human rights to be confirmed by every citizen of this country. I get concerned when I see that even though there is an Act, I think, it is the High Court Act, which provides that when a case was first in the public domain and was heard openly, it cannot be heard in camera. Where are we heading to? We have had cases before. If I am allowed to cite an example of the treason case of the People vs Shamwana and Others, it was not allowed to be heard in camera. So, why is there a certain case, which involved real criminals from outside the country and local ones, being tried in camera?

Mr Jamba: Which one?

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, Zambians would like to know. If that is the case, then, all Zambians should request to be tried in camera because it is also their constitutional right. No one should say it is because of the matter being sensitive. I have given a very good example of the Shamwana treason case, which was very sensitive. I was at an age at which I understood what was going on. What are we doing to our Judiciary if we try to destroy it or show that when it comes to justice, we will give it to the elite, those who have connections or the politically exposed? What are we doing to the people of Chienge, Luangeni and other places? There are many people who are currently incarcerated and have been for quite some time. They, too, may want their cases to be heard in camera. So, I think, it is important that, as a nation, we do not look at the face. I have heard, several times, the Head of State say that no one is above the law and that you cannot commit a crime in the name of being a leader in the opposition or a politician.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Jamba: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

I was seated here listening and trying to get what the hon. Member is trying to say as she debates. She is bringing in innuendos, running to and from, going this way and that, and debating issues that are active in the courts of law. Is she in order to discuss issues that are active in court here, in Parliament?

Mr Anakoka: Standing Order No. 65!

Mr Jamba: According to Standing Order No. 65.

I seek your ruling, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kapyanga: It is a point of disturbance.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I know that we are not allowed to bring issues that are before the courts. Let us desist from doing that, hon. Member for Chienge. Let us ensure that the content of our speech avoids contravening the law.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that point, not point of order, but a point of disturbance.

Mr Chairperson, it is very important that, now, we seem to be innocent. Knowing the politics of this country, the very people who are rising on points of disturbance will find themselves in police cells and they will feel the heat. Let us be fair and help our judicial system. It is very important that we do that. The truth of the matter is that we can tell that something is wrong. There is too much drama.

Mr Chairperson, I appreciate your guidance, but I did not mention any court case. I was talking about what was in the News Digger’s Newspaper. I wanted to compare it with a case that is already in the public domain.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

I guided you.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, the other thing that I would like to talk about is decentralisation. We have been talking about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) as a tool for decentralisation. I think, when it comes to the Judiciary, we are not doing too well as country. In Chienge, people have to wait for the magistrate to travel from Nchelenge to sit. In the meantime, the detainees will be waiting for the magistrate. I think, that when we talk about decentralisation, we need to also have correctional facilities within our areas, and presiding officers. We also need to have the prosecution officers within our areas. That is very important.

Mr Chairperson, I will not take much of your time. I just want to say that justice should be given to all Zambians equally and, no one should been seen to be elite and protected because of the so-called sensitivity of cases.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Mr Chairperson, let me begin by thanking the hon. Members who have contributed to this debate. These are Hon. Chala, Hon. Andeleki, Hon. Mulebwa, Hon. Mapani, Hon. Kafwaya, Hon. Anakoka and Hon. Rev. Katuta.

Mr Chairperson, indeed, the general debate on the matter under consideration has been to support the Judiciary. There have also been cries on the budget that has been put forward for the Judiciary to do with the increment allocation. Indeed, I would echo those sentiments myself, the fiscal space allowing. However, in the interim, it is important to note the substantial progress that has been made, under the New Dawn Government, in terms of the budgetary allocation to the Judiciary, with the exponential increase from 2022 when the allocation was initially K617,041,765 and now, when it is K890,697,821, has been put forward. I think, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning must be commended for these efforts. We know for a fact that with each successive Budget, we will see an increment.

Mr Chairperson, indeed, the Judiciary has set very critical work that it wants to do using the allocation. I noted that the hon. Members talked about infrastructure challenges. I would like this House to note that the Judiciary intends to rehabilitate, and or build twenty-seven court infrastructure across the country. Again, it is this budgetary allocation that will allow that. So, key and positive steps are being made by the Government to ensure that this institution functions to the extent that it can, as enshrined in the Constitution, as an independent and apolitical institution. It is, therefore, worrying when hon. Members debating this important institution want to politicise it. Indeed, I would not agree more with some of the sentiments that have been expressed on the Floor of the House to the effect that we must respect judgements and orders of the courts of law. We have seen very unfortunate situations in the last decade or so, and some of the parties that were at the forefront of ignoring decisions of the courts seem to want to continue in the New Dawn Government with their activities. Even for their own internal disputes, they want to bring the sort of misbehaviour of deliberately avoiding obeying court instructions and orders.

Mr Chairperson, we have seen, in a certain political party’s internal matter, a person who is cited for contempt deliberately avoid going to court. That sort of behaviour must be stopped. We have also seen situations in which political party leaders go on national platforms and purport to warn the Judiciary regarding the manner in which it is carrying out its functions. I agree entirely that that sort of behaviour must be frowned upon, and those who find themselves in that space should take a step back and reflect because in the New Dawn Government, we will not allow that. The rule of law will prevail.

Mr Chairperson, there was reference to certain by-elections. The courts delivered their judgements on those by-elections that were referred to. Why must we want to second-guess the courts in this House? That is not the behaviour that is expected of us. Indeed, as a people, if we want to protect the Judiciary, we must learn to understand and appreciate that when a decision is made, it must be abided by. So, I agree with the argument from the hon. Members that we must respect the Judiciary. We must also respect the rule of law. Indeed, there is no such thing as a person who is above the law. To that extent, even opposition leaders are subject to the law. They cannot go about speaking and behaving in a manner that is abrogating the various provisions of our law and expect to walk scot-free simply because they are opposition leaders. So, indeed, as the hon. Member for Chienge said, the law is blind. It applies to everybody: on the left and right.

With those few words, I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 31 – (Ministry of Justice – K1,180,317,844)

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to present this policy statement in support of the Ministry of Justice 2024 Budget Estimates. This presentation is in four parts as follows:

the first part speaks to the mandate of the ministry;
the second part presents an overview of programme implementation for 2023;
the third part presents the 2024 policy framework and budget priorities; and
the fourth part concludes my statement.

Mandate of the Ministry of Justice

Mr Chairperson, according to Government Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2021 on the statutory functions, portfolios and composition of the Government, the Ministry of Justice is mandated with the responsibility of facilitating the administration of justice, promotion of good governance and the observance of human rights and the rule of law. In addition, the ministry is also responsible for the following statutory bodies and institutions:

Compensation Fund Committee;

Judicial Complaints Authority (JCA);

Legal Aid Board;
National Prosecutions Authority (NPA);
Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE); and
Zambia Law Development Commission (ZLDC).

Overview of Programme Implementation for 2023

Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry implemented three budget programmes, namely Legal Services, Good Governance and Human Rights as well as Management and Support Services.

Legal Services Programme

Mr Chairperson, under this programme, the ministry successfully implemented five sub-programmes, whose key outputs are Legislative Drafting and Law Revision, Arbitration, Mitigation and Prosecution, International Law and Agreements and Estate and Receiverships.

Mr Chairperson, under the Legislative Drafting and Law Revision sub-programme, the ministry drafted twenty-one Bills and fifty-four statutory instruments (SIs). This is expected to enhance and contribute to the creation of a conducive and responsive governance environment. In addition, the ZLDC reviewed the following documents:

the Anti-Terrorism Regulations, 2017;
the Anti-Gender-Based Violence Act, No. 11 of 2011;
the Constituency Development Fund Bill, 2023; and
the Public Order Act Intended Repeal Via the Public Gatherings Bill.

Mr Chairperson, the commission also successfully identified archaic laws in the social justice and commercial sectors that require revision, and a compendium has since been produced.

Arbitration, Mitigation and Prosecution

Mr Chairperson, under the Arbitration, Mitigation and Prosecution, the ministry received 817 civil court cases, of which 85 per cent were attended to. In addition, under the Compensation Fund, K5 million was paid to beneficiaries.

Mr Chairperson, to support the Government agenda of decentralisation and take legal services closer to the people, the Ministry of Justice has continued with its programme of decentralising its legal services to all provinces in accordance with Article 177(6) of the Constitution of Zambia. This year, the ministry operationalised five district offices, which are now fully functional, in Solwezi, Livingston, Chipata, Kabwe and Kasama. This is expected to improve efficiency and effectiveness in the representation of the Government in civil proceedings as well as enhance clearance of contracts and agreements to which the Government is a party.

International Law and Agreements

Mr Chairperson, under International Law and Agreements, during the year under review, the ministry received 14,924, I repeat: 14,924 contracts and agreements. Out of this number, so far, 13,446 contracts and agreements have been processed. The ministry also received 555 memoranda of understanding (MoUs) and subsequently executed 294 of them. This represents 90 per cent and 53 per cent performances respectively.

Estate and Receiverships

Mr Chairperson, under Estate and Receiverships, during the year under review, the ministry had 1,325 deceased’s cases, of which forty-five were closed. One hundred and thirty new cases were received and payments of terminal benefits were made to ex-employees of Zambia Steel Building Suppliers.

Mr Chairperson, this year, ZIALE has trained 1,944 students in various legal disciplines, against a target of 2,036. In order to enhance institutional performance, access to legal training and increased student accommodation, ZIALE undertook some reforms, which include restructuring of the institute, introduction of online classes and strengthening of student assessment and management.

Good Governance and Human Rights Programme

Mr Chairperson, under this programme, the ministry successfully implemented three sub-programmes towards the attainment of key targets, namely Administration of Justice, Accountability and Transparency, Corporate Governance and Democratic Governance.

Administration of Justice

Mr Chairperson, under Administration of Justice, the ministry implemented various interventions aimed at promoting access to justice for all, especially the poor and disadvantaged, by scaling up the implementation of the National Legal Aid Policy. During the year, the Legal Aid Board launched offices in five districts, namely Mwinilunga, Mbala, Petauke, Nakonde and Mazabuka. The board also managed to offer representation to 100 per cent of those who sought assistance, against a target of 85 per cent.

Accountability and Transparency

Mr Chairperson, under Accountability and Transparency, to strengthen the fight against corruption and enhance accountability, transparency in public sector management, the ministry has finalised the formulation of the National Policy on Anti-Corruption and its five-year implementation plan. The development of this policy was done in a very transparent, inclusive and consultative manner in order to build consensus on issues affecting the fight against corruption in the country.

Corporate Governance

Mr Chairperson, under Corporate Governance, the New Dawn Government believes that the promotion of good corporate governance in our country is crucial for building a stable and thriving economy, safeguarding investor interest and fostering ethical, responsible and sustainable business practices. Corporate governance enhances and encourages innovation, efficiency and competitiveness, and contributes to protecting stakeholder interest, protecting employees, customers, the environment and, indeed, in promoting corporate social responsibility. It is for these reasons that the Ministry of Justice has been working with stakeholders, such as the Institute of Directors of Zambia, to develop a national corporate governance code.

Democratic Governance

Mr Chairperson, under Democratic Governance, on promotion of democracy and political governance, the ministry organised various fora during the year, which included the co-hosting of the Second Summit for Democracy together with four other nations. The summit was held on 28^th and 29^th March, 2023, to promote inclusive decision-making, people-centred development and free, fair and creditable elections.

Management Support Services

Mr Chairperson, under this programme, the ministry finalised the 2022-2026 strategic plan.

2024 Policy Framework and Budget Priorities

Mr Chairperson, I now wish to turn your attention to the policy direction and priority programmes for the Ministry of Justice for 2024. The 2024 Budget Estimate of Expenditure for the Ministry of Justice is K1,180,317,844, compared with K851,754,855 for 2023, representing a 38.6 per cent increase. This amount will go towards the execution of the ministry’s mandate, strategic objectives and targets as set out in the Eight National Development Plan (8NDP). The ministry will prioritise the following areas:

Legal Service Programme

Mr Chairperson, the Legal Services Programme has five sub-programmes and amongst them is the Legislative and Law Revisions Sub-Programme, which has been allocated K34,690,594. The funds under this sub-programme will be used to facilitate legal and constitutional reforms as well as drafting of legislation to ensure a legal framework that is responsive to the needs of the Republic.

Mr Chairperson, under the Arbitration, Litigation and Prosecution Sub-Programme, an allocation of K990,382,031 has been made, representing an 83.9 per cent of the total budget. The resources under this sub-programme will be utilised to support the civil litigation and debt collection functions of the ministry. In 2024, the ministry will also open three additional provincial offices for the Attorney-General’s Chambers. Amounts allocated under this sub-programme also include a significant sum of K703,300,000 under the Compensation Fund.

Mr Chairperson, under the Good Governance and Human Rights Programme, an allocation of K86,832,384 has been made to facilitate the implementation of three sub-programmes, namely Accountability and Transparency, Democratic Governance and Administration of Justice. Further, the Administration of Justice Sub-Programme has been allocated a sum of K81,270,269 in order to improve in efficiency and to devolve the Ministry of Justice offices around the country.

In conclusion, Mr Chairperson, I wish to emphasise that during the 2024 period, the ministry has prioritised the allocation of funds to programmes whose implementation will contribute to creating a good governance environment and a responsive legal framework as outlined in the 8NDP. It is, therefore, my sincere hope that this august House will support the expenditure for the Ministry of Justice for next year.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Mr Chairperson, thank you so much for this opportunity to debate Vote 31.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Justice is very important insofar as the facilitation of the dispensation of justice is concerned. Further, it is important in facilitating legislation. It is important, therefore, to note that a few people cannot initiate a process of mutilating the Constitution without the involvement of the Ministry of Justice. If people say that there are non-contentious issues in the Constitution, what kind of barometer are they using to determine what issues are contentious and what issues are not contentious?

Mr Chairperson, the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia is a preserve of the Zambian people, and they are the ones who should determine what contentious issues are and what non-contentious issues are –

Mr Haimbe, SC.: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(1)(a)(b) in relation to content of speech and relevance.

The hon. Member on the Floor has made a very startling proposition, which the whole nation has heard, that there are persons whom he has associated with the Ministry of Justice out to mutilate the Constitution of the Republic. That assertion is extremely startling, and it is not backed by any document or any evidence whatsoever.

I seek your, Mr Chairperson, on whether the hon. Member is in order to make a debate based on speculation and nothing more than that.

The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you, hon. Minister.

The hon. Member, Mr Kapyanga, is completely out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us avoid making assertions that we cannot back with evidence. Let us avoid speculations. Let us also ensure that the content of our speech is relevant to the subject on the Floor. Whatever we present has to be backed by evidence, not assertions. As hon. Members, let us adhere to that.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Chairperson, thank you so much. I thought, the hon. Minister of Justice would have an opportunity to come and rebut some of these issues that are being said. He really wants to speak.

Mr Chairperson, what I was saying is that the Ministry of Justice is very important and instrumental in facilitating legislation. Therefore, we cannot have a few people making manoeuvres to amend Articles in the Constitution that they are calling “non-contentious.” This is in the public domain.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, I have guided you. So, you are debating against my guidance. Avoid that because it is something you cannot substantiate. Avoid debating that way.

Mr Kapyanga: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson, even as I support this Vote, I want to appeal to the hon. Minister of Justice to not be selective in the issue of consent judgements for unlawful prosecution or whatever they call it. We have people in Mpika who have been wrongly prosecuted, but there is no one to compensate them. We have people who have been killed by wild animals in Nabwalya, Chishala and in Itezhi-Tezhi, but their families have not been compensated, yet we have consent judgements that have now become a conduit for looting. People are being given colossal sums of public money under consent judgements.

Mr Chairperson –

Mr Haimbe, SC.: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Mr Chairperson, at the risk of appearing to be curtailing my hon. Colleague, I raise this point of order. It is because of the language that is being used. I rise on the same Standing Order.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member has made a suggestion that there is looting of the Compensation Fund that is taking place. That term presupposes that there is illegality and that there is someone somewhere who is not operating the Compensation Fund correctly. Again, that is not based on any evidence, but on mere politicking and speculation. If the hon. Member could restrict himself to facts and even understand how the Compensation Fund works, perhaps he would avoid going down that particular path.

Mr Chairperson, I seek your guidance as to whether the hon. Member is in order to make that assertion that there are individuals or persons who are looting the Compensation Fund.

The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you, hon. Minister. Like I guided earlier, let us avoid making assertions. The hon. Member is completely out of order. Let us ensure that whatever we bring on the Floor of the House is backed by evidence; you can back it with evidence. So, let us avoid making unnecessary pronouncements and politicking.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Kapyanga: Sir, it is difficult to always say what the hon. Minister of Justice wants to hear.

Mr Chairperson, thank you so much. I also want to make an appeal regarding the decentralisation of the Attorney-General’s Chambers. In the face of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) contracts, it is becoming a little difficult for us to get clearance for various contracts that are submitted to the office of the Attorney-General. If the chambers could be decentralised up to the province or district, it would help to facilitate the clearance of the contracts. In the same vein, I want to appeal to the Ministry of Justice to decentralise the Legal Aid Board offices to the district level. Poor people cannot afford to facilitate the movement of counsels from the provincial headquarters to particular districts in the province. A poor person in need of services of the Legal Aid Board has to pay for the movement of a counsel from his or her base to the district where his services are needed. This is proving to be very difficult for our poor people in rural areas, more especially Mpika and other areas in Muchinga Province. If the offices were decentralised, it would be easy for our people to easily access the services of this very important institution.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Justice should also consider facilitating the conferring of prosecutorial powers to the Human Rights Commission, so that when human rights abuses are committed, the commission is able to initiate a process of prosecution on its own. Usually, the human rights abuse cases go unpunished. Therefore, I appeal to the Ministry of Justice in that regard.

As I conclude, Mr Chairperson, I know that for these things to be done, the budget allocation to the ministry has to be increased. I appeal to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to consider increasing the budget allocation to the ministry so that decentralisation of the Office of the Attorney-General and the Legal Aid Board is achieved.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to debate. I would also like to thank the hon. Minister for his policy statement.

Mr Chairperson, I am aware that the Office of the Attorney-General has been decentralised, but we have issues in the sense that the Constitution does not empower the office to approve. That power is with the officers. So, it means that even if officials are sent to a province, they still need to send requests for approvals back to Lusaka to the substantive Attorney-General. This is a constitutional matter that brings me to my point that it is our expectation that the ministry will come up with a roadmap to amend the Constitution. I say so because of such lacunae. We have a Constitution that introduces an executive Mayor and an executive Council Chairperson who are elected by the people, but then we also have subsidiary legislation that allows elected people to be suspended by appointed people. This shows how issues to do with the Constitution need to be addressed. We expect a clear roadmap from the ministry because it is undeniable that, clearly, we have many constitutional issues.

Mr Chairperson, we note that the budget has been increased from over K800 million to K1.1 billion. It is important for the ministry that has the responsibility to promote good governance to look at some Bills that have been assented into law in this House, but are still not operational. For example, the Gender Equity and Equality Act was passed in 2015. Eight years later, the Act is not operationalised. It is shelved, gathering dust and not enforceable. So, in as much as the hon. Minister is bringing Bills to Parliament, he has legacy issues to look at; those Bills that were quickly brought here and passed, but no commencement orders have been signed to operationalise the laws.

Mr Chairperson, the amendment of the Public Order Act, which is called the Public Gathering Bill has now taken too long. The process to amend it began almost at the same time as the Freedom of Information Bill. We are still seeing delays in the Public Gathering Bill being brought to this House. The hon. Minister mentioned it in his policy statement, and we want that Bill to come to this House because it is the general feeling that the right to freely assemble, which is a constitutional right for that matter, not a right that is given by Governments, is inherent. By virtue of being human, people must be able to assemble at any given time. So, as the ministry is working on that Bill, we ask for its speedy presentation to Parliament so that it can be passed.

Mr Chairperson, when it comes to issues to do with confidence in the Ministry of Justice, of course, through other legacy issues, we have had issues of agreements on immunity from prosecution. That is in the public domain. With the new team at the ministry, we should not have a situation in which people sign agreements that make them immune to prosecution.

Mr Mubika: Imagine!

Mr Wamunyima: There is no law that makes criminals immune to prosecution. I am sure, the hon. Minister cannot agree more.

Mr Chairperson, the other issues have to do with confidence in the hon. Minister’s office. The office of the hon. Minister must be insulated from political interference. Some of the things that could shock us are to do with hunting concessions, whereby the Office of the Attorney-General advised against cancellation, but a ministry went ahead and did the opposite. So, we would like to see such issues come to an end. When the Office of the Attorney-General gives advice, it should be respected by all ministries.

Mr Chairperson, despite the Office of the Attorney-General being centralised, and now decentralised, we still see the contracts under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) being awarded speedily. I commend the office for that.

Mr Chairperson, we would also like to see the public educated on issues to do with access to the Legal Aid Board. We know that there are various abrogations of the law and that our vulnerable citizens cannot access the Legal Aid Board. We have not seen sensitisation in a long time regarding that office.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to conclude by saying that one of the key issues that should be addressed by the Ministry of Justice is publicising what it is doing. The Ministry of Justice is one of those that people do not know about. If you ask people in rural constituencies what the mandate of this ministry is, you will realise that they do not know. So, it is very important that in facilitating the administration of justice and promoting good governance, institutions like the Zambia Law Development Commission (ZLDC) are seen to be functional. Perhaps, it could be good to also know to what extent the commission has gone in the development of the law. Suffice it for me to say that we would like to unreservedly support this budget. We hope that next year, more resources can be allocated for the ministry to increase its staff.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Justice, as the name suggests, is one ministry that should be at the centre or pinnacle of the dispensation of justice in our country. I know that this is a ministry that cannot be separated from the Judiciary because the two institutions operate like Siamese twins.

Mr Chairperson, the challenge we have, which I want to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister, is the fact that many of our people are finding it extremely difficult to access justice. There is the saying that justice delayed is justice denied. If I am to ask the hon. Minister how many of our inmates in various correctional facilities and detention centres have spent one to five years without seeing justice, would he be in a position to answer? How many of our people who have gone to the courts of law to seek justice have died without seeing that justice?

Mr Chairperson, in most cases, it takes three, four or five years for a case to be concluded. At times, cases die a natural death. Is that the justice system we want to promote? The answer is no. So, I would like to request the hon. Minister to bring to this Parliament legislation that will compel the courts to hear certain cases within a specified period. It is very costly for cases to prolong. I know, one would argue that there are so many reasons why that is so.

Sir, my colleagues just mentioned the institutions that are mandated with the responsibility of dispensing justice. How efficient are those institutions? He just mentioned the ZLDC. That is the institution that is supposed to develop the legal system in this country. If we were to ask the hon. Minister what law has evolved emanating from the Commission in the recent past, we would discover that, probably, it is only the contribution from what the people in the legal fraternity call the ‘Lord Denning’ of Zambia, which is Justice Matibini’s defence of some cases. That is what can be cited to have been the development in our legal system. That institution needs to be capacitated so that every day, we are able to develop our own legal precedences that suit our circumstances, considering the fact that our legal system embraces both traditional and statutory laws.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Justice should be everywhere. So, it should be decentralised. Hon. Wamunyima talked about the need for this institution to not be seen to be fine-tuned by politicians. As a nation, we need to come together and be deliberate about ensuring that professionals in the legal fraternity are left alone to discharge their functions. We should never, at any time, try to impose our narrow political interests on the legal fraternity.

Sir, we are aware that the Judges just urged Parliament to pass a legislation that will make the Judiciary, which is the centre of the dispensation of justice, financially independent. This can only be actualised if the hon. Minister of Justice, who is the policy-maker initiates the process. In an ideal situation, no arm of the Government should be present in the other because this the only way we will attain true separation of powers.

Mr Chairperson, we are a unicameral Parliament and we accept that. However, when it comes to operations, I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Justice to create the autonomy that is needed for good and efficient dispensation of justice. I know, my colleague talked about the Constitution, and I agree with him. How do we have a law that sets people who have committed criminal acts free? These are the things that the hon. Minister of Justice should immediately start working on so that as representatives of the people, we fine-tune our laws for the good of society. So, as I support this Vote, I appeal to the hon. Minister to ensure that our people access justice. At the moment, it is only those who have money who can have quick access to justice. Ordinary Zambians are dying and rotting in prisons.

With these few remarks, I hope that the hon. Minister will respond and assure the people of Zambia that they will access justice.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for the opportunity.

Mr Chairperson, I want to place it on record that I support this Vote. In supporting it, I want to address myself principally to the functions that the Ministry of Justice is mandated to perform. The first one is law reform and revision. The second is looking at the Laws of Zambia and the third one is legal aid. In this regard, maybe, the fourth one would be human rights and governance. These are very important.

Mr Chairperson, I want to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister the plight of our people in rural areas, especially in the newly-created districts, such as the one I represent, and Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency, in particular. When our people have to appear before any court of law, they must be moved from Kanchibiya to neighbouring Mpika despite the long distance and other things.

Mr Chairperson, there are certain crimes that have continued to go unabated because people do not understand the legal system. For instance, there are crimes under the Child Code Act, such as child marriages or gender-based violence (GBV), which are the order of the day. There is also assault, which is the order of the day because someone knows that even if they commit the offence, they cannot be taken to court. So, if there is no police presence and there is no court, people think that it is free-for-all and, so, one can marry off one’s sixteen-year old, fourteen-year old or thirteen-year daughter without facing the consequences or repercussions under the law.

Mr Chairperson, what call are we making? It is that, firstly, it is very important for us to construct subordinate courts, especially in newly-created districts. As my colleagues who have spoken before me have stated, access to justice becomes very important. When access is tampered with, we begin to see a critical component of human rights that is taken away from our people. So, our call is for the ministry to forge ahead with constructing more magistrates’ and subordinate courts, especially in newly-created districts such as where my constituency is. Where we can, with other resources that are at our disposal, we can chip in and ensure that there is running water, electricity and others, going by the requests that we have received from the Judiciary in the province.

Mr Chairperson, the promotion of alternative dispute resolution mechanisms is very important, especially in rural areas. Let us increase awareness in areas where there are no courts for our people to understand that alternative dispute resolution is one of the avenues that can be looked at to settle issues even without going for litigation. Again, I would call for increased resource allocation to the ministry because this is very important if the ministry is to discharge its mandate.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue that our people are faced with in rural areas is the high cost of legal services. So, if a farmer in Kanchibiya wants legal representation, he or she has to find someone in Mpika, and the money he or she is going to pay would make him or her think twice about whether or not to drag someone to court. So, the high cost of legal services for those in the lower economic bracket need to be considered.

Mr Chairperson, the low number of lawyers is a call for more resources to be allocated so that more lawyers can be recruited and that representation of this very important ministry and justice can be felt at the local level. Like I said, the long distances to the legal service providers is a huge hindrance and, again, that takes away from these critical human rights our people are entitled to.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to again join the previous debater in commending the Office of the Attorney-General for being efficient in approving Constituency Development Fund (CDF) contracts. This is a matter that we can attest to as the people of Kanchibiya.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, I would like to say that there is a need for increased knowledge on the rights and entitlements of our people insofar as justice is concerned. With those few remarks, we rest our case and support this important Vote.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Mr Chairperson, may I begin by thanking the hon. Members who have debated this Vote; Hon. Kapyanga. In particular, I would like to thank the following hon. Members for their sober, informative and helpful debate: Hon. Wamunyima, Hon. Mung’andu and of course, Hon. Chanda. I think, this is the way it should be, that we exchange ideas on the Floor of this House. That will help us all to improve the service that we provide to the people of Zambia. I thank them most sincerely for their suggestions and sober debates.

Mr Chairperson, let me now turn to the debate by Hon. Kapyanga. The starting point is that I implore hon. Members that as we come to the Floor of the House to discuss important matters, we do so from an informed position. For example, the hon. Member suggested that the Compensation Fund is not being used, if I may quote him, “the way it ought to be used”. I am using this platform because I would like the people of Zambia to understand this. In particular, an example he gave was that people who would have been killed by wild animals were not compensated by the Compensation Fund. That goes to show that, unfortunately, the hon. Member did not take time to understand what the Compensation Fund is in terms of use and implementation. It is restricted, and for the knowledge of the people of out there, to compensate persons who have claims against the State; the Attorney General. It has been in existence for quite some time even prior to this Administration coming into office. There are other cases that have been referred to, such as one looking to seek compensation for violation of their civil liberties that have been ongoing for quite some time. So, there is nothing new in the manner in which the Compensation Fund is used.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Members and the public out there are encouraged to read the Act. The monies are actually ring-fenced and there is a committee that sits to determine who and how persons who find themselves in dispute with the State get compensated. There is complete transparency in the use of that fund.

Mr Chairperson, there was also the suggestion that there must be decentralisation and other matters relating to the devolution of the Office of the Attorney-General and the Legal Aid Board.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to remove the possibility of persons misunderstanding the current intentions of the New Dawn Government. Indeed, this Vote has had other budgets before it budgets have made provision for the matters that were referred to by the hon. Member, in particular, the devolution of offices. For example, in the 2024 Budget, there is an allocation for the Legal Aid Board as regards devolution to new districts in Kawambwa, Kaoma, Kabompo, Senanga and Mumbwa aside from the ones that are referred to in my policy statement so as to increase national coverage. This is on page 338 of the Yellow Book.

Mr Chairperson, to address some of the matters that the hon. Member spoke of in terms of access to justice, there has been a progressive increase in the budgetary allocation to the Legal Aid Board. Again, if the hon. Members would look at page 336, at their own time, they will find that in 2022, the allocation to the Legal Aid Board was K47,379,575 and that this year, we are talking about K65,479,575. I think, that is a significant increase. Again, as the New Dawn Government, we are committed to having that progressive increment from period to period.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of the presence of the Attorney-General’s Chambers across the country, again, as mentioned in my policy statement, we have opened new offices during the period under review. However, going forward, under this budget, we intend to open offices in Luapula Province, Muchinga Province and the Western Province so as to increase coverage of the Attorney-General’s Chambers and the Ministry of Justice in these places, as referred to on page 335.

Mr Chairperson, with regard to increasing the efficiency of the Attorney-General’s Chambers, I would like to assure Hon. Wamunyima that we are looking at innovative ways of addressing that constitutional challenge that he mentioned. Whilst the Constitution provides for the Attorney-General to be the one to make approvals, there are mechanisms that can be used, using electronic platforms, to allow for prompting to be done from a decentralised location so that the Attorney-General merely clicks on a button, and we will see a lot more efficiency in that regard. So, we are modernising and we are equal to the task. I pray that this Vote is fully supported.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 53 – (Ministry of Green Economy and Environment – K812,238,932)

The Ministry of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Mr Chairperson, it is my honour and privilege to present to this august House the policy statement for the 2024 Budget for the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to begin by expressing my gratitude to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr. Situmbeko Musokotwane, for the Budget Address which he delivered to this House, whose theme was “Unlocking Economic Potential.”

Mr Chairperson, the House will agree with me that the hon. Minister delivered a transformative speech based on the global and current national economic trends. The speech was consistent with the President’s Address for the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, as it called on the entire nation to unite and build upon individual and collective achievements, thereby building a more productive and unified nation.

Mr Chairperson, as a methodical Government, and with the restructuring of debt agreed upon in principle, the funds intended for debt servicing will now be reallocated to the strategic development areas of this country, hence contributing to the attainment of the Vision 2030 goal of becoming a prosperous middle-income country by 2030.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is charged with the mandate of overseeing programmes and projects that promote the efficient and sustainable use of the environment, while facilitating and supporting adaptation to, and mitigation of, the impacts of climate change. To actualise this, in 2023, my ministry had an approved budget of K774,748,986, out of which K80,245,423 was for personal emoluments, K82,000,000 was meant for programme implementation and K611,700,000 was for project financing. In addition, the ministry received a supplementary budget amounting to K5,500,000 bringing the total budget to K780,248,986.

Mr Chairperson, some of my ministry’s achievements in 2023 include the following:

installation of eighty-nine of the planned 120 automatic weather stations across all the 116 districts, with four installed in major water bodies, for the provision of accurate and timely whether and climate information. The installation is expected to be completed this year;
launching of a US$3.1 million water transportation channel in Lunga District, in Luapula Province, which is being implemented under the Transforming Landscapes for Resilience and Development (TRALARD) Project;
operationalisation of two irrigation schemes covering 35 ha with a total of 500 direct beneficiaries with improved livelihoods through incomes and food security under the Lake Tanganyika Project;
recognition of thirty-eight Community Forest Management Groups countrywide that are managing over 2.6 million ha using forest management plans to strengthen sustainable forest management;
development of an automated online environmental management information system called e-ZEMA as a way to improve service delivery for environmental licences, environmental assessment, and complaints and emergency management; and
facilitation of the implementation of carbon markets through approving of project proposals to generate benefits for the country and communities.

Mr Chairperson, in an effort to achieve the New Dawn Government’s aspiration of attaining a green economy and sustainable development, my ministry embarked on a robust process of developing and reviewing policies, pieces of legislation and strategies. These are at different stages of development. Notwithstanding these achievements, the ministry faced a few challenges with regards to programme implementation, including:

insufficient budgetary allocation to allow the ministry to execute its mandate fully;
inadequate technical staff; and
inadequate office accommodation for officers and equipment.

Mr Chairperson, allow me, now, to present the ministry’s 2024 Budget Estimates. The ministry proposes expenditure of K812.2 million, out of which K85 million is meant for personal emoluments, K238 million is allocated for programme implementation and project financing has an allocation of K487 million. This proposed expenditure represents a 5 per cent increment compared with the 2023 allocation. The priority programmes for the 2024 Financial Year will include:

Forest Development and Management;
Green Economy and Climate Change;
Meteorological and Weather Services;
Environmental Protection; and
Management and Support Services.

Mr Chairperson, to support Forest Development and Management, the ministry has allocated K141 million to facilitate the provision of the forest skills development, forest management and forest research and development (R&D). Of this amount, K13 million has been allocated towards forest skills development, K126 million has been allocated to forest management to facilitate the development of forest management plans and formation of Community Forest Management Groups among other initiatives. Further, the ministry has allocated K1.6 million for forest R&D.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has allocated K6 million to support the Green Economy and Climate Change Programme implementation. Further, the ministry will implement the Green Growth Strategy, which will lead to the attainment of a green economy and contribute to low carbon and climate-resilient development. To adapt to the adverse effects of climate change and build resilience, my ministry has allocated K445 million to facilitate the implementation of climate change mitigation programmes, as it is well-known that the socio-economic progress made thus far is being undone by the negative effects of climate change, which include droughts and floods, across the country.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has allocated K25 million to support the provision of meteorological and weather service programmes, which include the provision of whether observation infrastructure focusing research on climatology and advisory services. K2 million has been apportioned towards weather observation infrastructure and K22 million to forecasting and research services. Additionally, Climatology and Advisory Services has been allocated K1.7 million for dissemination of seasonal rainfall forecasting and other meteorological information.

Mr Chairperson, in order to enhance Environmental Protection, Management and Research, my ministry has allocated K157,000,000 to support this programme and project, out of which K110,000,000 will cater for pollution control and management. The ministry will also construct and operationalise the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) offices in Mansa and Mkushi districts. Further, K47,000,000 will be spent on environmental management and research to facilitate regulation and co-ordination of management of the environment and its natural resources.

Mr Chairperson, Management and Support Services has been allocated a total of K35,000,000 to support development and revision of policies and legislation, and to review the annual Corruption Prevention Action Plan.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, let me reiterate that my ministry, working with other line ministries, is committed to promoting sustainable development and seizing opportunities for improving our people’s quality of life by utilising the nation’s bio-diversity, the environment and natural resources in a sustainable manner. I, therefore, request the hon. Members of this august House to support the 2024 Budget Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your kind attention.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Thank you, Mr Chairperson, for the opportunity given to me, on behalf of the people of Kabwata, to add my voice to the debate on the Vote. First of all, I want to state on the Floor of the House that I, on behalf of the good people of Kabwata, support the budget for the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment. However, I have some reservations that the money that has been allocated is not enough to answer the many challenges that the ministry is facing. I remember that in the past, we would see some traditional set-ups where people would pray for rain, not knowing that that was attributed to climate change, which is here to stay. We cannot neglect supporting a ministry that is helping the Ministry of Agriculture to ensure that there is food security in the nation. The ministry has many challenges that, I feel, once highlighted, we will appreciate that for it to succeed in whatever mandate it has been given, there are certain things that need to be done by the Government.

Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about funding to the ministry, especially the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), which is a key institution. If you look at it, you will see that it helps a number of other institutions, including the private sector. So, if we neglect to support the institution in terms of funding, we will end up not getting the best results, as a nation.

We have discovered that ZEMA has a number of challenges in its operations. Firstly, it is not decentralised. We needed to see to it that the offices are decentralised to all provincial centres and, I think, that can be achieved so that we can enhance effective delivery of this ministry’s mandate.

What I have seen, Mr Chairperson, is that the ministry lacks capacity when it comes to workers. There is a need to consider capacitating it in that area. If you look back twenty years, when we had a population of almost 8 million people, you will see that the workforce then was the same size as the one now looking after a population that is almost 20 million.

Mr Chairperson, we also need to see to it that ZEMA or the ministry engages experts to deal with issues of water pollution. We need to engage people who are competent and who understand what water pollution is.

Mr Chairperson, if you go to places like the dump site in Chunga, you will see that the place is becoming something else. The ground has been polluted and, at the end of the day, even underground water is now contaminated. In Lusaka, Chalala in particular, most households have drilled boreholes, yet the water underground is contaminated. So, it is high time the ministry looked at engaging experts who understand issues of water.

Mr Chairperson, a few days ago, I was listening to the news, and I heard that in India, for almost three weeks, children were locked up in houses because of air pollution. We do not want to reach those levels. So, the best we can do is to we engage people who understand and have the expertise when it comes to air pollution.

Mr Chairperson, the other thing that is needed is for ZEMA or the ministry to look at agriculture specialists. What is happening now is that most trading places that deal in agriculture commodities are busy selling chemicals. However, most of these chemicals are harmful to the environment. So, we need to ensure that people who are specialised in agricultual chemicals are brought on board by the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, further, we need to have more people who understand issues of climate change. That is why we have been calling for the enactment of a Climate Change Bill. Without the Climate Change Bill being assented to or passed in Parliament, we will continue having these challenges. Look at what is happening in countries like Dubai. Even countries that are way advanced are now facing the real challenge of climate change. A few days ago, we saw what happened in Dubai, where buildings and roads were flooded with rainy water. Similarly, a few days ago , we saw Brazil record temperatures as high as 44 deg and that is something that had never happened before. That can also happen to Zambia if we fail to handle some of these issues.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about issues of deforestation. However, before I talk about that, we need to understand that we need to provide solutions to our people who are busy cutting down trees for charcoal burning. That is why we need to start sensitising our people on the disadvantages of deforestation. We need to talk to our people, especially those in rural areas where we see that the cutting down of trees for charcoal is becoming rampant. There is a need for us to find a solution for stopping that.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, allow me to say that the people of Kabwata and I want to support the budget that is before us. I hope and pray that in the coming years, this ministry will be given more resources so that it can work effectively and deliver to the good people of mother Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on Vote 51, Ministry of Green Economy and Environment.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment’s mandate is to protect and promote the effective and sustainable use of the environment by facilitating support for adaptation and mitigation of the effects of climate change. The key words are “adaptation” to and “mitigation” of the effects of climate change. The origin of climate change is the high emission of carbon, which emanates from industrialisation.

Mr Chairperson, in Africa, we are lucky because we have a lot of international goodwill towards the programmes aimed at mitigating climate change effects. However, in order for us to adapt to climate change, the programmes that have been set out by the Government through the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, such as sensitisation, need to be strengthened. There is a need to sensitise people on the importance of venturing into low-carbon emission projects. I know that there are programmes, such as carbon trading, but those need to be simplified. The explanation on carbon trading is very difficult for beneficiaries in rural areas, who are the hosts of those forests to understand. We are talking about determining the benefits that can be accrued for low carbon emission and having a net stock value. We would trade through the kind of benefits to benefit the communities. It is not difficult for people to understand this kind of explanation. Sensitisation must be enhanced. Within the same sensitisation, it is important to involve hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Chairperson, in Kaumbwe Constituency, we have two forests. We all know that in many of our constituencies in the United National Independence Party (UNIP) days, there was a forestation programme, but those forests have been encroached on. Now, when I go to my constituency, I find some forestry officers struggling to have a meeting with the local people for them to acquire the forest there and the headmen refuse to sign that agreement. It is because we are not sensitised and involved. So, as the ministry plans, it needs to involve the Members of Parliament in each region so that we all benefit from such programmes. Climate change effects are so devastating, especially on hydrology. In most constituencies, our rivers are dry, and when there are floods, the floods are devastating. There is a need for the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment to harmonise and co-ordinate with the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation and the Ministry of Agriculture because we are all affected through the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment.

Mr Chairperson, I can give the example of the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation. The Ministry of Green Economy and Environment is in charge of weather observations. The weather instruments give reliable information to all the hydraulic structures that the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation needs to build. They give information to the Ministry of Agriculture in terms of the soil quality and water quality. Further, the supply of agricultural inputs will be timely based on the information from the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment. Going further, the disaster risk management practises need to be enhanced. Information on weather observations will entail all the structures that we are talking about erecting using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), such as classroom blocks, being built based on information passed on by experts. Do we put up these structures from an informed decision? Structural integrity is dependent on information made available by the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment.

Mr Chairperson, let me go to the money allocated for Forestry Research and Development (R&D), which is K1.6 million. Research is expensive. The major task or outcome research needs to give Zambia is alternative sources of energy. Right now, we depend on charcoal both in the urban and rural areas. Research needs to address what alternative sources of energy will be sustainable and commensurate to our rural population. For now, even Lusaka, charcoal is the major source of energy. How do we move out of this –

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, conclude your debate.

Dr Mwanza: With these few words, I support the budget.

May I also add that research should address the use of alternative sources of energy other than charcoal.

Xièxiè.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1843 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 22^nd November, 2023.

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