Friday, 20^th October, 2023

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

ADDRESS BY MADAM SAMIA SULUHU HASSAN, PRESIDENT OF TANZANIA

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the President of the United Republic of Tanzania, Her Excellency Madam Samia Suluhu Hassan, will address the House on Wednesday, 25^th October, 2023.

Her Honour the Vice-President will, on Thursday, 26^th October, 2023, move a Motion to place on record the Thanks of the House to Her Excellency Madam Samia Suluhu Hassan, on the occasion of her special address to the Assembly.

BREAST CANCER SCREENING FOR HON. MEMBERS AND STAFF

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that Forest Park Specialised Hospital has been granted permission to conduct a free cancer screening exercise for hon. Members of Parliament and staff during the commemoration of the October Breast Caster Awareness Month. The exercise is aimed at raising awareness and reducing stigma on cancer through education and raise survival rates through early detection and treatment of common cancers.

The exercise will be conducted from Monday, 30^th October, to Friday, 3^rd November, 2023 in the Main Reception area at Parliament Main Buildings as follows:

1. from 30^th October to 2^nd November, 2023, from 0900 hours to 1600 hours each day;

1. On 3^rd November, 2023, from 0900 hours to 1300 hours.

Interested hon. Members are, therefore, encouraged to find time to participate in this very important exercise.

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MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER NO. 51

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that Order No. 51 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, be suspended to enable the House to hear the address by Her Excellency Madam Samia Suluhu Hassan, President of the United Republic of Tanzania, on Wednesday, 25^th October, 2023.

Madam Speaker, as the House may be aware, Her Excellency Madam Samia Suluhu Hassan, President of the United Republic of Tanzania, will address the House on Wednesday, 25^th October, 2023. Order No. 51 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, outlines the order of Business of the House for each day. It is, therefore, necessary to suspend the Standing Order to accommodate Her Excellency the President of the United Republic of Tanzania’s address to the House.

Madam Speaker, this is a procedural and non-controversial Motion. I, therefore, urge all hon. Members to support it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for causing an opportunity for me to support the Motion that has been moved on the Floor of the House by Her Honour the Vice-President.

In her submission, Her Honour the Vice-President has indicated that this is a procedural and non-controversial Motion. Indeed, it is procedural and non-controversial and, therefore, very easy to support. As I support the Motion, I would like to state that the coming of Her Excellency the President of the United Republic of Tanzania to this Assembly will be fresh air not only to the hon. Members of Parliament, but also to the battered Zambian people who will have a chance to listen to her.

Madam Speaker, this is a time to listen to a different voice; a voice of leadership at that level, so that we can draw inspiration from leaders who are able to transform their countries. We can draw inspiration from a President whose country has been transformed as a result of policy implementation that is consistent with conscience.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, when policy becomes consistent with the conscience, governments produce. That is why Tanzania, today, has become the country it has become. We are happy that its president will be speaking to us. We will welcome her, and the Zambian people will be happy to listen to her.

Madam Speaker, I support the Motion moved by Her Honour the Vice-President.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Members for silently supporting the Motion. I also want to thank the hon. Member who has supported the Motion. He has a level of his own understanding, but we appreciate that he …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … has supported the Motion. Indeed, it will be a wonderful thing to have Her Excellency come and add her voice to the African voice and the one we have in our country. We are blessed to have a voice, but we are always ready to listen.

Thank you very much for the support.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER FOR PAMBASHE, ON MR KABUSWE, HON. MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT, ON THE KONKOLA COPPER MINES AGREEMENT

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, my matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam Speaker, the Copperbelt, today, is in anguish and in confusion. Further, this is a House of procedure; when an hon. Minister renders a statement, he propagates a Government position. The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development came here and you directed him to issue a ministerial statement. He told this House that the Government and Vedanta Resources Limited had signed a deal. He went on to elaborate the contents of the deal. However, his Permanent Secretary (PS), last week, issued a statement to the contrary. He said that there was no deal that had been signed between Vedanta Resources Limited and the Government, and that the clause that if Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc comes without money, the Government would walk away, Vedanta Resources Limited haD insisted that that it be removed from the contract.

Madam Speaker, the Copperbelt Province, today, is anxious, and so are the people of Zambia. Is the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development right to come and mislead you, the Zambian people, this august House, and the people of the Copperbelt concerning the KCM deal?

Madam Speaker, this is a very serious matter. According to Standing Order No. 135, on the admissibility of this point – I want to read it because this is a very important matter. Admissibility of a matter of urgent public importance. It states that a matter shall be considered urgent –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I think, we are not supposed to be reminded of that by you. We all know the procedure for matters of urgent public importance. Just conclude your matter so that we make progress.

Mr Chitotela: I seek your serious indulgence over the conduct of the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development of misleading the whole country.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, I do not know whether you want to clarify this now or later?

Hon. Opposition Members: Now!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can do it now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

You wanted clarification.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for raising this issue so that I clarify.

Madam Speaker, when we are making announcements, it is very important that hon. Members pay attention. Hon. Members must listen to the wording of any announcement. The recordings are there. What we announced at Mulungushi International Conference Centre (MICC) and what the Permanent Secretary (PS) said are very clear. However, people want to politick over nothing or things that have no substance.

Madam Speaker, when we announced the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc deal, we said that the Government had gone out of court with Vedanta Resources Limited and that the negotiations had begun because we agreed to get to the table. When we had agreed, we came to announce to the nation that Vedanta Resources Limited and the Government of the Republic of Zambia had agreed to sign a deal and that the contents of the deal were a, b, c, d, x, y, z, including funding of US$1 billion, US$250 million for suppliers and contractors, US$20 million for corporate social responsibility (CSR) programmes, K2,500 one-off payment to every employee and 20 per cent increase in salaries to employees.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Further, the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) Board Chairperson said that the legal documents would take three months to be signed. We were not signing that day. That day, we were announcing the deal. The agreement and –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Just listen to the response.

Interuptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, do not debate while seated. We are all listening to him.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, that is why the announcement was made by three people; me as Minister, a representative from Vedanta Resources Limited, and the ZCCM-IH Board Chairperson. The reason that ZCCM-IH Board Chairperson was there is that ZCC-IH holds shares on behalf of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in KCM. We gave a transition period of three months. My PS was saying that the legal documents or the legal agreements are about to be signed. They are not yet signed.

Madam Speaker, when you are making deals, there are what are known as conditions precedents and condition, subsequent. So, these are issues that we need to understand when things are being announced. When you go to the announcement, you will find that we did not say “We have signed.” We gave you the contents of the deal and the agreement. That is why, even if I am not a lawyer, there are what are called verbal agreements and written agreements. So, verbally, we have agreed with Vedanta Resources Limited, and nothing is going to change.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Are all these supplementary questions? Can we be orderly. You are confusing the system. I will only allow the hon. Member for Pambashe because he is the one who brought up the issue and because I cannot see on the Electronic Chamber (e-Chamber).

Hon. Member for Pambashe, what is your follow-up question?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, this is a House of honour, and people who sit here must be honourable enough to state the truth. I asked this question to the hon. Minister, who was seated over there (pointing at Hon. Kabuswe’s seat). The subject was KCM, and he said,

“We have a captain who knows what we are doing. The previous deal with KCM, the Vedanta of PF is not the Vedanta of the New Dawn. We have signed an agreement that says that if Vedanta does not honour its obligation, it will just walk away.”

That is what that hon. Minister said, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Ms Mulenga: What PF!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, please, stop shouting.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I do not want us to continue in this manner. Let us have order.

What is your question, hon. Member for Pambashe?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I have withdrawn my fingers. Instead, I will put my hands like this (put his hands behind).

The hon. Minister did state what I just mentioned, and after this, I will retrieve the verbatim record and I will lay it here. He is the same hon. Minister who told the Zambian people in this Parliament that –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question? Just ask your question.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, it is the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development who told the Zambian people that the Government and Vedanta Resources Limited had signed a deal that entailed that if Vedanta Resources Limited did not meet the condition, it would just walk away. He is the same hon. Minister, today, who said that the contract was not signed and that it will take three months. What is the position of the Government that the listening residents of the Copperbelt; Chingola and Chililabombwe, where my brother, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development comes from should take? Is the contract signed or is there no contract?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I think, I have made that clear. The agreement is in place, we have agreed, but there is a process to signing that agreement and, I think, I have made that clear.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Using my powers and having seen that there is no order in the House, we are going to go straight into the Vice-President’s Time.

Just clear the list so that hon. Members can log in smoothly for the next segment.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, last year, the United Party for National Development’s (UPND) New Dawn Government employed 30,000 teachers. This year, again, the Government is going to employ about 4,000 teachers. When I look at advertisements for both last year and this year, I see that it does not say anything about special education teachers. What is the Government’s position on the recruitment of teachers with special education qualifications?

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, indeed, there were 30,000 teachers recruited in the 2022/2023 period. There is an advertisement, again, for about 4,500 more teachers. The concern for the hon. Member is that there is no advertisement for special education teachers. The phrase is a bit difficult for me. The hon. Member could mean teachers for special education or teachers with special needs. When the advertisement is placed, what I know is that it is for all teachers. However, within the selection process, the people responsible for selecting candidates know from the qualifications who qualifies to teach in schools where there are children with special needs and they send many teachers to those schools. There are also teachers with special needs. From what I know, the Teaching Service Commission (TSC) has been considering those two categories of teachers; teachers of children with special needs and teachers with special needs.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, the People of Bangweulu are worried about the growing trend of the meticulous white-collar plunder of public resources through consent judgements. Of late, we have seen that a number of people have been awarded huge sums of money, defrauding the Government of its needed resources.

Madam Speaker, I understand now how methodical and meticulous the United Party for National Development (UPND) is. This can be seen in the manner …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can ask your question, hon. Member.

Mr Kasandwe: … the people handling this matter were appointed just to clear the ground for plundering natural resources and public resources. My question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: Why is it that only persons connected to the UPND have been awarded through questionable consent judgements?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bangweulu, who has come out passionately on compensating people who were wrongly detained.

There is nothing fraudulent about it, and it is not plunder. What is important is to see whether the law is being adhered to. So, the hon. Member cannot say, “questionable compensation”. There is nothing of that sort.

Madam Speaker, this is not targeted at one group or the other. Anybody can take a matter before the courts of law, and if there was an infringement of rights, he or she should be compensated. That is why, as the Government, we must be careful yesterday and today. If, today, we are going to have people wrongly imprisoned, then definitely, it would be fraud. However, these things were done under our colleagues. If they had been careful then, people would not have been incarcerated or detained for no cause.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this is a right given to every Zambian, and the right must be protected. That is what democracy means. One of the important things in a democracy is that individual rights are protected. Therefore, if a person is wrongly detained, you will definitely have to compensate them. So, as the Government, we must be careful and, that is what lacked in the previous regime.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this chance.

Madam Speaker, not too long ago, we saw the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, with selected Cabinet Members going to China for a trip that was very significant to this country, yet back home, here, we saw the critics of this Government with ill intentions go to various media platforms to make statements that purported that the trip was insignificant and that the President was not welcomed by the President of the People’s Republic of China. However, we saw the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation come to this House  and crystal clearly outline the benefits of that trip.

Madam Speaker, what message of condolences does Her Honour the Vice-President have for those minions who lambasted the trip to China?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East for this question. He basically says, and I am paraphrasing, that the people who went to China went to do work on behalf of the Zambian people. The achievements of that trip have been stated in this House by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Madam Speaker, my advice to people who may have raised what I will call malicious challenges on the trip, is that the President and his team of hon. Ministers do not go to play. They go to work, and the benefits will be seen. Some of the benefits have already been seen by the Zambian people. Therefore, let us not be suspicious. Let us not be pessimistic. Let us not always look at what you think is wrong. The President travelled with a team of hon. Ministers and, indeed, we are going to see the good things that came out of the China trip, as stated by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will be alternating.

Ms Mulenga: Even women.

Mr Kapyanga: Even youths.

Laughter

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity given. A good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President and other senior officials in the New Dawn Government have stated, on many occasions, that there is a lot of peace in this country. There is no anarchy and there is also a lot of freedom. In a country like Zambia where there is a lot of peace, no anarchy and there is freedom, the question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: Why is the Government through the Zambia Police Service denying other political players, especially opposition political parties, permits to hold public gatherings, which include political rallies, citing security concerns and insufficient manpower?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Bwacha Constituency and say good morning to him. I really appreciate the question. To start with. I do know whether the observation was really from the heart or is based on what we say; that in Zambia, there is peace, there is no anarchy and there is freedom.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has asked why the Government is stopping other political players from holding public rallies. I do not think that statement should be so generalised. We are following the same law that our hon. Colleagues had followed. The law has not yet changed.

Madam Speaker, when there is peace, no anarchy and there is freedom, it means somebody is guarding the security of the nation. Having the ingredients that the hon. Member is talking about means that the police, whose mandate is to ensure that Zambia is secure, are following things that he and I may not interpret, if that is what is happening. So, we have to continuously be careful not to break the same peace or destroy the freedoms that we have. So, the police, and I have said this before – Have we graduated any police yet?

Mr Mwiimbu: Not yet.

The Vice-President: The police officers who are doing what they are doing were trained under the Government that was in power previously.

Laughter

The Vice-President: If they need retraining, that may be done. They were trained and actually functioned under the Patriotic Front (PF) regime. So, they must be following something, and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is here. They are working within the law. We are democratic, and we will continue to support the freedoms that are inherent in our society, but that has to be done within the law.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, I am speaking on behalf of the people in areas around the Mwembeshi/Nampundwe/Blue Lagoon Road.

During the time of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, a Bill called Bill 10 was presented to this House. I was the Member of Parliament for Mwembezhi then and I was told to support Bill 10 for the road to be worked on. I refused to support this Bill. The condition was that if I supported Bill 10, then, the road would be constructed.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Please, resume your seats.

Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, please, resume your seat as well.

Hon. Member, I think, this is a very important segment for the people of Zambia who are listening out there. That is the problem we create when we debate our questions. We want to involve as many people as possible. So, let us be focussed, without all those preambles.

Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, please, wind up your question so that Her Honour the Vice-President can respond and we move on to another hon. Member.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, the people of Mwembezhi are listening. The condition was that I signed a document supporting that Bill or that road would not be worked on. The road was not worked on because I did not sign a document supporting Bill 10.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Jamba: I am asking, Madam Speaker. May I finish.

Madam Speaker, constructing the road in Mwembezhi had many conditionalities. The people of Mwembezhi are asking me why the road, which was not worked on by the previous Government, is not being worked on now. What is going to happen if I go for Independence celebrations on Tuesday?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Jamba: I am afraid of being beaten up.

Laughter

Mr Jamba: When is our road going to be constructed? Could Her Honour the Vice-President give an assurance to the people of Mwembezhi.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The Vice-President: … thank the hon. Member for Mwembezhi for this question. I also want to congratulate him on not signing the Constitution (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I want to assure him that the Nampundwe/Blue Lagoon Road is under consideration. It is important because it leads to a tourist destination. So, the hon. Member can go and celebrate because this Government will not compel him to sign anything, but the work will be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, the people of Isoka would like to know when the farmers who did not get farming inputs in full in the 2021/2022 Farming Season are going to get their balance for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), including the farmers in Isoka Constituency. Otherwise, when I go to Isoka, they will beat me up. They want their balance.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think, the Chair should be concerned about the hon. Members. It seems, so many of them are on the list of those to be beaten up.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Good morning, hon. Member for Isoka.

I can assure the hon. Member that she will not be beaten up. I am with the hon. Minister here. Please, it should be an assurance that this year, the fertiliser has been purchased to cover those who were not given their fertiliser in 2021/2022. That how it is scheduled; in 2022/2023, they will be given. So, the hon. Member will not be beaten up. Like the ‘road man’, she can also go and celebrate with her people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, we are almost in the rainy season, which is the farming season, and the farmers are enjoying the good price of maize. However, there is a public outcry over the price of mealie meal. What message does Her Honour the Vice-President have for Zambians?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, it is almost in the rainy season, and the first advice is that people should go and grow more maize. Let farmers get on the ground.

Madam Speaker, if you allow me, I can tell you that Wednesday was the Day of National Prayer, Fasting, Repentance and Reconciliation. I, personally, was very happy because the Church, through Fr Lupupa, came out very strongly at the Lusaka gathering that it does not matter whether you are Doctor Chilufya –

Laughter

The Vice-President: He said “doctors”, at least, he mentioned that. Basically, the man of God said that “let us all make our hands dirty.” It does not matter who you are. Do something or grow something because that is life.

Madam Speaker, my number one advice is that God has given us a wonderful land, abundant water and good rainfall, which many people do not experience. If all of us could get our hands dirty, we would not be crying over the high costs. I do not want to continue on the issue of cost and price because it is something that an economist can explain. We have never seen a world in which prices go down, but the cost – I hope the hon. Member’s neighbour is an economist – which is what the hon. Member is concerned about, keeps rising. It is how fast it rises. That is one thing.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member also asked about the outcry. Surely, I think, even the other day, we talked about this right here. We said that the Government is putting in place mitigating measures to lower the prices to some level of affordability in the county. It might not be 100 per cent satisfactory, but this is where we are. We have allowed the Zambia National Service (ZNS) to mill and sell mealie meal at a reasonable price. The hon. Member for Mpongwe should know that his Government is working to see to it that its people access mealie meal which is not too expensive.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mulenga (Kalulushi): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the good people of Kalulushi to also ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Vice-President, good morning.

Mr Mabeta: Good morning, Madam.

Laughter

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we have a serious problem of non-availability of electricity. For the last three months, we have had serious power cuts. We have electricity supply for less than thirty minutes a day. That is a township –

Mr Kabuswe: Question!

Ms Mulenga: This is the truth. Listen to the people. These are concerns –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are addressing me. Do not involve your colleagues in your question. Just go straight to the question.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we have a crisis. That is an up-coming township where we have small business entities like hair salons and barbershops. You are aware that Chambishi Metals Plc has closed. You may also be aware that the livelihood of the people is dependent on the small businesses. We do not have a big hospital –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Ms Mulenga: I wanted to put Her Honour the Vice-President in perspective of what is actually going on.

Madam Speaker, people are suffering. Electricity is an essential commodity, which should be given to the Zambian people.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Ms Mulenga: The question –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Go straight to the question.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President aware that her people in Chambishi, who came out in numbers to vote for her and put her into office as a mother, are suffering? Their businesses are run down and the township has no running water because we do not have electricity.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President, who is seated there, aware that there has been no electricity supply in Chambishi and the surrounding areas? The most the people would get power is thirty minutes.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the lecture that the hon. Member has given on electricity.

Madam Speaker, at least, for the many things she has mentioned, I am aware that electricity is essential. It does many things in our communities. That is why this Government puts electricity on the development agenda and is doing everything possible to ensure that people have access to it. That is why, if we have been listening to one another here, we will note that we are not just looking at hydro-electricity, but also other sources of power. That is the general direction that we are taking.

Madam Speaker, for electricity, at least in this House, we have not been told neither have I been briefed that there is load-shedding. If that is the case –

Ms Mulenga interjected.

The Vice-President: – I am saying what I know. You asked if I was aware. To hear this very serious allegation – I am calling it an allegation because I do not have proof – that the people of Kalulushi are only getting electricity for thirty minutes in a day, I honestly hope it is not true. I think, if it is true, we will still have to find out because I cannot just sit here and not know. This is the first time I have heard of a thirty-minute power supply. So, am I aware? No, I am not aware that the people of Kalulushi get only thirty minutes of power supply and, sometimes, nothing at all.

Ms Mulenga interjected.

The Vice-President: What is so special about Kalulushi that they can have only thirty minutes of power supply?

Ms Mulenga: It is Chambishi!

The Vice-President: Oh, Chambishi. Whether Chambishi or Kalulushi, having power for only thirty minutes a day or no power is a daily occurrence. We will find out because I am not aware. That is the question the hon. Member asked. I am not aware of what the hon. Member has asked.

Madam Speaker, like you always guide, rather than coming here to be seen or heard by the people, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: …has the hon. Member approached the relevant authorities or the hon. Minister over this issue? This is a serious matter. If people are sleeping in the dark, then, the hon. Member should not wait to come and ask a question. Whether this has been going on for a month or a week, I do not know because the hon. Member has not indicated the duration. It is so serious that a Member of Parliament should not sit and wait to just come and ask, …

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … unless she says I have been –

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulenga: Incompetency yaba Minister!

The Vice-President: Aha! Let us listen to one another.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Mulenga: He is not even here.

The Vice-President: I was listening carefully to you. So, let us listen to one another.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Her Honour the Vice-President may continue.

The Vice-President: What I am saying –

Ms Mulenga interjected.

The Vice-President: You are not even listening to me.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kalulushi!

Do not debate while seated. Let us give chance to Her Honour the Vice-President to respond to our questions.

May Her Honour the Vice-President continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is just a piece of advice that when something is happening in your constituency, we do not sit back and claim incompetence or whatever. Go first to those who can attend to your problem so that when you come here, you can say, ‘I have been to this and that office.’ Thirty minutes of no power supply or nothing every day is honestly very dangerous. I do not know how long that has been happening.

Madam Speaker, now that I have informed the hon. Member that I was not aware of the situation, I advise her to go to the relevant offices and make them aware also so that they can take action. We will follow it up to see how true the matter is. The hon. Member should not do that again, whereby she has a serious crisis, but decides to wait for this opportunity in Parliament to report it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, the people of Kwacha Constituency send fraternal greetings to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, Zambia has 156 constituencies. Now, most of the constituencies, especially Kwacha, are too vast to allow for meaningful development to be felt on the ground. I would like to know if my Government has plans to undertake a delimitation exercise in the lifespan of this Parliament so that most constituencies like Kwacha can have the privilege of being split into two or three so that development can be felt on the ground.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kwacha for this question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has talked of 156 very vast constituencies. I agree that they are vast, and it is not just Kwacha. Indeed, that is worth looking at. I cannot promise exactly what is going to happen. I made a statement sometime last year in this House to the effect that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) had begun the process and that we had to continuously look at it and see the possibility of delimitating some constituencies. There are many implications in that action, but I can tell you that most of the constituencies are extremely vast in terms of the geographical area. Even those that are here are also vast in terms of population. So, it is an important question, except I cannot give an assurance right now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central this opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Her Honour the Vice-President, good morning from Zambian transporters.

Madam Speaker, in Zambia, we have many manufacturing companies of cement, and fertiliser and those who transport fuel. Zambian companies have suffered a lot because manufacturing companies have procured their own trucks, leaving Zambian transporters stranded.

Hon. UPND Member interjected.

Mr J. E. Banda: Wait!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke!

Do not debate your question. Summarise your question to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, there are companies like Dangote Cement Zambia, Sinoma Cement Zambia and many others that have acquired their own transport. For example, one manufacturer has more than 200 trucks. How is the New Dawn Government; your Government, going to help the –

Hon. UPND Member: What is your question?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke, please, concentrate on your question.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your protection from these hon. Members who cannot represent their constituencies, yet they want to always interject people’s questions.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may continue with your question, hon. Member. Just conclude your question.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, what is the New Dawn Government going to do to protect the transport industry in Zambia?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this question, and good morning to the hon. Member and the good people of Petauke.

Madam Speaker, I think that it is important for the hon. Member, who is a researcher, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … to come up with facts. It is very important to come up with facts for that is the purpose of researching. At least, some truth should manifest. If that were the case, we would agree with you that there is something wrong there.

Madam Speaker, I have been informed that with Dangote Cement Zambia, that has been the situation for a long time. The company has been using its trucks. However, United Capital Fertilisers Zambia Limited, which came under this Administration, in its agreement with the Zambian people, who work through the Government, has been given the condition that it can only procure 5 per cent of what it needs. The rest must be outsourced to the Zambian people. That is what is happening. I think, we need more engagement. Sometimes, in his research, the hon. Member can go and find out this fact. United Capital Fertiliser Zambia Limited has got only 5 per cent of the transport it needs. The need to transport fertiliser is huge. Remember that it is now going as far as Botswana. So, the company needs many trucks. What it has is only 5 per cent.

Madam Speaker, the Truckers Association of Zambia can verify this information because it is also working with United Capital Fertilizer Zambia Company Limited. So, this is the position. Somebody might be misled. So, it is important to go to United Capital Fertiliser Zambia Company Limited and see if it is only loading fertiliser on its trucks or this it is also using Zambian trucks. We want the Zambian truckers to be in business, but at the same time, we are in a liberalised economy in which competition is important. The companies have to offer prices that are –

Mr Chitotela: It has to be at a competitive rate.

The Vice-President: – Yes, it has to be at a competitive rate, and that is something they negotiate. From the Government side, we ensured that United Capital fertiliser Zambia Company Limited only has 5 per cent. Who is it working with? It must be Zambians because they must also remain in business as they offer their services.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much and good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, in 2019, transport and housing allowances were removed from the separate payroll of retirees and the matter went to court. In 2020, the court ruled that the action was not done in accordance with the law. In 2022, Her Honour the Vice-President’s Government issued a circular to enforce that judgment. However, to date, the circular has not been enforced. When is the Government enforcing this circular to actualise the judgement that was passed in favour of the retirees?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think, I did not get the question clearly. Maybe, I can ask if these are people who were separated from work and they went to court and won the case over the transport and housing allowances that were separated from the payroll.

Madam Speaker, firstly, when people are separated from work, surely, those who were accommodated by the Government cannot claim housing allowance. I am sure, that is the circular the hon. Member is referring to. Those who were not accommodated will definitely be paid. The Government has been paying, except that it is still asking for more information to know exactly who should be paid the housing allowance. This process commenced, and some have been paid while others are yet to be paid.

Madam Speaker, the question on the transport allowance is strange because if the courts honestly – Where is the hon. Minister of Justice? There is one here.

Madam Speaker, if I was being given transport allowance while working, would it be legal for me to continue getting that allowance even after I have stopped working?

Mr Chisanga: No!

The Vice-President: Counsel Chisanga, to where?

Madam Speaker, the transport allowance issue is out of the question. When you are out of a job, you cannot be given transport allowance. There is no plan to pay transport allowance to people who are not reporting for work. That is not there. For housing allowance, the Government is still calling for information to see who should be paid and who should not.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I have a question for Her Honour the Vice-President on prudence management.

Madam Speaker, late last year, we saw the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts in Luapula Province and the Northern Province giving out cash in form of loans to youth clubs. It is alleged that he directed the Permanent Secretaries (PSs) in the Northern Province and Luapula Province to withdraw K5 million and give it to him.

Madam Speaker, who did the appraisal for those loans that the hon. Minister was giving out to the youth clubs in the Northern Province and Luapula Province? Further, how is the Government going to recover that money?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Pambashe for this question that is premised on prudence management.

Madam Speaker, many times, we may not know exactly how the hon. Minister is planning because that is –

Mr Chitotela: He was giving out cash.

The Vice-President: Yes, cash. He was giving out cash to people. We should be happy that our youths are getting empowered. That is Government money given as a loan and a record is kept. There has to be a follow-up. Maybe, when the loans mature, the hon. Member can then ask if the Government has started collecting what it is owed. That is the issue. Otherwise, the youths of Luapula Province and the Northern Province are also entitled to loans from the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has technical staff. What you –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we have order, hon. Members. At the end there, is there a problem that needs our attention?

Hon. PF Members: It is Hon. Samakayi.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member or Mwinilunga, will you go back to your seat.

Laughter

Mr Samakayi left the bench for Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members.

Hon. Government Members: Kalulushi!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Kalulushi will also go back to her seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kalulushi, can you resume your seat.

Her Honour the Vice-President may continue.

Ms Mulenga left the PF Backbench.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I was just saying that the hon. Member for Pambashe was a Minister and that he knows that a Minister has a technical team that works behind closed doors. What people saw him do when he was a Minister was not done by him alone. Whatever he did as hon. Minister, there were people who had done the preparation so that the people of Luapula Province and the Northern Province could also get empowerment, which was in form of cash. The method is correct, but the documentation must be correctly done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, social media is being abused out there, especially by the now opposition Patriotic Front (PF). There is too much of the oxygen of democracy and so many platforms.

Madam Speaker, as the United Party for National Development (UPND), whilst in the Opposition, we used to talk about the excessive pricing of fire tenders, ambulances and the Lusaka East Forest Reserve No. 27. Now that we are in Government, the nation is quiet. The UPND is quiet, and the people want to know why. One of the PF senior members was on radio saying that the Government is quiet on these matters I have mentioned, especially on the Lusaka East Forest Reserve No. 27, because even we, in the UPND, benefited from plots there.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, ask your question.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President able to order the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources to publish the names of people who have plots in the Lusaka East Forest Reserve No. 27?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is a little difficult to connect the question, from social media to the Lusaka East Forest Reserve No. 27. I failed to follow (laughs) the brouhaha.

Laughter

The Vice-President: It is a normal feeling when you fail. You can remain stuck, but sometimes, it is better to move on. However, I think, the question he asked is whether I could order the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources to produce the list of names of those who got land and abused the Lusaka East Forest Reserve No. 27.

Madam Speaker, I may not order the hon. Minister, but I can encourage him to produce the list to put things to rest. I can only encourage him so that people do not start looking at all of us as if we got land from there. I can only encourage him but, not order him.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last question to Her Honour the Vice-President will be from the hon. Member for Nkana.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) has made a number of pronouncements in the name of guaranteeing and protecting media freedoms. Two journalists; a photojournalist and another, were fired from the Zambia Daily Mail for merely capturing people who had queued up for mealie meal sometime in April in Ndola. Is Her Honour the Vice-President aware that some people in the Government are beginning to go against the Government’s commitment to protecting journalists and media houses not only from harassment by members of the public, but also from harassment at places of work? The work of a journalist–

Madam Vice-President: Hon. Member, we are behind time.

Mr B. Mpundu: Yes.

Madam Speaker, the work of a journalist is just to capture what is news-worthy. What is broadcast or published is up to the news manager.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just ask the question, hon. Member.

Mr Munsanje: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: Is Her Honour the Vice-President aware that some individuals are beginning to jeopardise the Government’s commitment to protecting media houses and journalists and ensuring that they act professionally?

Mr Munsanje: Question!

The Vice-President: Good morning, hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, I will start by indicating that the Government is still and will continue being committed to guaranteeing and protecting the rights of media practitioners. I am not aware that people are now starting to harass others at work places. I am not aware. If it is happening, it should be looked at. We all know the work of media practitioners.

Mr B. Mpundu conversed with Mr Munsanje as the Vice-President was responding to his question.

The Vice-President: The hon. Member is busy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

Order, hon. Members!

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING WITH ZAMBIA’S OFFICIAL CREDITOR COMMITTEE

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I am honoured to update this August House on an important development in our on-going efforts to address Zambia’s public debt challenges. This crucial milestone reached on 14^th October, 2023, marks significant progress in our efforts to restore Zambia’s long-term debt sustainability.

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to inform this House that the Republic of Zambia has successfully negotiated and agreed to a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with its Official Creditor Committee (OCC). The committee is co-chaired by China and France, with the vice-chair held by South Africa, has played a pivotal role in facilitating a comprehensive debt treatment as agreed upon in June 2023.

Madam Speaker, allow me to provide a brief background to Zambia’s debt restructuring journey, which has been long and difficult. The process began in 2020 when Zambia requested an extended credit facility from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to address the mounting challenges in our economic landscape and to anchor the debt restructuring process. In February 2021, recognising the need for a comprehensive debt treatment, Zambia applied for debt restructuring under the Group of 20 (G20) Common Framework.

Subsequently, in June 2022, the OCC of Zambia’s bilateral creditors was formed under the G20 Common Framework, marking a paramount moment in our pursuit for a sustainable debt trajectory. In August 2022, this Government secured approval for a thirty-eight-month US$1.3 billion extended credit facility (ECF) from the IMF, providing us with critical financial and policy support during our restructuring endeavours.

Madam Speaker, in June, this year, I informed this august House that Zambia had reached an agreement in principle on debt treatment with the OCC setting the financial terms for the debt relief that has been granted by our bilateral creditors. The debt restructuring agreement covers about US$6.3 billion of the Central Government debt owed to external bilateral creditors and the Government guaranteed that debt that ZESCO Limited owes the bilateral creditors. The debt treatment agreed with the OCC is in form of the following:

1. maturity extension of our existing debt by more than twelve years, with the final repayment year being 2043;

1. significant reduction in interest rates from what they currently are to very concessional rates during the next fourteen years. Thereafter, the interest rates will not exceed 2.5 per cent under the baseline scenario; and

1. a grace period of three years for principal repayments, implying that the principal repayments will start in 2026.

Madam Speaker, the agreement also includes an adjustment mechanism, which provides for a slight reduction in final maturity from 2043 to 2038 and a slight increase in interest rates if Zambia’s debt-carrying capacity improves from the current weak classification to medium classification. The assessment of Zambia’s debt-carrying capacity will be jointly conducted by the IMF and World Bank in 2026.

Madam Speaker, during my address in June, I informed this august House that the agreement with the OCC would be formalised through an MoU. I repeat: During my address in June, I informed this august House that the agreement with the OCC would be formalised through an MoU. I now stand here to announce that we have successfully concluded negotiations on the MoU with the OCC.

Madam Speaker, the MoU we have signed with the OCC formalises and solidifies the June debt treatment agreement and paves way the execution of bilateral agreements with each member of the committee. The MoU which will be signed by each official creditor, signifies a major step forward in our commitment to achieving a sustainable debt trajectory. The outlined terms will subsequently be implemented through the bilateral agreements to be signed with each member.

Madam Speaker, our Government remains actively engaged in good faith discussions with all external private creditors, including the Eurobond holders. Our goal is to secure debt treatment agreements with the external private creditors on terms comparable with what has been agreed with the OCC. We are hopeful of concluding restructuring agreements that will align with Zambia's need for debt relief and adhere to the comparability of treatment principle. Therefore, following the landmark achievement with the OCC, it is our hope that negotiations with the external private creditors will also gain momentum. I wish to repeat our firm commitment to remaining in  arrears with external private creditors until agreements compatible with the comparability of treatment principle are reached, which underscores our dedication to achieving fair and equitable resolutions.

Madam Speaker, I now wish to extend my gratitude to all our official creditors, especially the co-chairs; China and France, and vice-chair, South Africa, for their unwavering commitment to resolving Zambia's debt overhang. Special thanks are extended to all our multilateral partners, including the IMF, the World Bank and the African Development Bank (AfDB), for their continued support and substantial contributions to our development agenda.

Madam Speaker, while celebrating the progress made, we acknowledge the next critical step towards securing comparable agreements with our private creditors. Our Government is resolute in its commitment to overcoming the challenges posed by our debt burden by engaging in good faith negotiations with them. Once completed, debt restructuring will unlock resources crucial for investing in our development agenda; human capital investment and job generation, to strengthen our economy and create opportunities for the Zambian people.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I wish to assure the general public and other stakeholders that our Government remains transparent and committed to upholding international best practices in debt reporting. Regular updates will be provided through my ministry's quarterly debt statistical bulletins to foster informed and credible discourse on debt management efforts.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement that has just been rendered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, congratulations to the hon. Minister and his team on the job well done so far. I am sure that dealing with the private creditors will be a mountain to climb because those are motivated by profit.

Madam Speaker, I want to draw the hon. Minister’s attention to the relief that we have now, which simply means that he has to concentrate on growing our economy quickly to generate the money that will be available for us to pay in future and, also, to prepare ourselves for any economic shocks. However, on behalf of the people of Kantanshi, I am concerned about the low productivity that currently exists in the mining as well as agricultural sectors, particularly maize production, and the current investment efforts in the Zambia National Service (ZNS) milling plant, which is clearly a subsidy. All those are areas showing serious financial pilferage, which might not support the growth of our economy. What are some of the immediate plans the ministry has come up with for us to take advantage of this relief the hon. Minister has announced to the nation?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is right. The debt restructuring effort is, indeed, very important in making Zambia breathe and reorganise itself. However, obviously, the ultimate step after that is ensuring that our economy is bigger and stronger so that, if necessary, we can borrow and, more importantly, to be able to create jobs, tax revenues, and so forth.

Madam Speaker, in the mining sector, the issue is of the final addition of nuts and bolts to the resolutions of the two big mining companies, which is on track. You will recall that when this Government came into office, those two mining assets were in serious problems. Mining was taking place in the courts, production had fallen and, beyond that, there were many illegal mines that were outstanding. Those are the ones that are being cleared and, soon, I think, we will see progress. More importantly, confidence has been generated by this Government. Those days, mining companies were aiming to leave Zambia. Today, they are not leaving, but reinvesting, …

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: … in existing mines. Also, we have seen a lot of interest in new explorations that have started, and I am quite confident that in the next three or four years, we will see some big new greenfield mining projects emerge in our country.

Madam Speaker, on agriculture, I think, a lot has been said over and over; there is nothing new. Incentives have been provided to our farmers this year so that they get reasonable returns on their efforts. We should see many of those who had abandoned agriculture switch back their machinerywhich will expand the economy.

Madam Speaker, tourism is another area where we are seeing a lot of interest. Like I said, just this year, the number of visitors into Zambia has gone up by more than 25 per cent from what it was last year. I am confident that with the removal of Visas requirements and the negotiations to do with the introduction of direct flights between Zambia and China that the President and his team managed to conclude while in China, we will see a lot of tourism.

Madam Speaker, of course, in the manufacturing sector, we have also seen many activities in the Multi-Facility Economic Zones (MFEZs), particularly in the Chibombo area and here in Lusaka. As I speak, the space in the Lusaka South MFEZ has been exhausted, a big jump from what we used to see before. So, I believe that all is set for us to ride on top of the debt restructuring efforts, make the economy grow and uplift the living standards of the people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I would like to join my hon. Colleagues in congratulating the hon. Minister on this milestone achievement, the attainment of debt restructuring. This is what, as a country, we were all looking forward to.

Madam Speaker, now that we have attained debt restructuring, what measures is the Government putting in place to explain, in plain language, to all Zambian citizens the implications on their lives in the medium and long term, of the debt restructuring so that we have informed citizens who cannot be easily misled by anyone?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, already, some of the good things that are happening now are as a result of the agreement or the debt restructuring that is ongoing. The reason for this is the coming in of a new Government and the commitment that was demonstrated and continues to be demonstrated, to debt restructuring and everything that it takes to get there. That in itself, has already unlocked substantial financial assistance from many of our co-operating partners.

Madam Speaker, let me say that the ability to give each one of us here over K30 million in Constituency Development Fund (CDF) would not have been possible without this momentum oin debt restructuring. Otherwise, this money would have all gone to debt service. However, given the confidence and trust our partners said, ‘These people are going to deliver’. That is because our partners have seen our track record. They said that the debt should not be serviced until an agreement is reached. Further, they said that we will only start servicing the debt three years from now, and that will only be a small fraction. Of course, that in itself is unlocking the money that we are talking about to give each one of us K30 million in CDF, which we are able to use to build schools, clinics and send our children to school. That is part of it.

Madam Speaker, without belabouring the point, the other issue is that of the confidence in the economy. I can safely say that mines like Kansanshi were destined for closure on top of the problems that we were having. The operators of Lumwana Mine had said that they were leaving the country under circumstances that were not known. All that was because of the confusion that was there and the lack of certainty in the country. Now, all these mining companies have not just forgotten about leaving; they are investing even more. Of course, others are watching. That is why I was saying that we are very confident that in the next two or three years, we will see new big mines opening up. The MFEZs are part of the confidence. Why would anyone come and invest in a country thatis bankrupt?

Madam Speaker, with the restructuring that is taking place, investor confidence is being restored. People are talking about coming to assemble motorcycles here. Others are thinking of coming to manufacture solar power units and invest in car batteries and in many other things. So, we are already beginning to benefit from the debt restructuring programme.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, the previous Government, the Patriotic Front (PF), had hired someone and paid him US$5 million to restructure Zambia’s debt. How much has the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government spent on restructuring this debt in order to achieve this milestone, on which our friends wasted taxpayers’ money? US$5 million was paid to a consultant who did nothing.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the truth of the matter is that we did not change any contract. However, the difference is that our hon. Colleagues paid money, but were not committed to the process. So, they were going round in circles achieving nothing. So, in that respect, I can say that the was money was being wasted.

Madam Speaker, when we came in, we said, ‘Guys – ’

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: maybe, that word is not Parliamentary. We said to them that we would not change the contract. However, we also said to them that it was time to for them to roll up their sleeves because we were going to make sure that they worked for the money, and we have made them do that. The results are self-evident. Methodically, step by step, we are announcing the concrete measures for resolving the debt crisis, something our hon. Colleagues totally failed to do.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, may I join my hon. Colleagues in thanking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, his team and, indeed, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for this significant milestone.

Madam Speaker, this significant achievement of restructuring the debt with the official creditors are concerned is a good thing. However, the Zambian people will be very happy to see a complete debt restructuring that would include the private creditors.

Madam Speaker, what bearing does this significant milestone have on the discussions with the private creditors?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the most important aspect, just to repeat, is that the creditors now know that they are dealing with a credible group of human beings; people who say, “If you help me this way, I will do the following so that in time, I will be able to start servicing your debt if you agree to restructure it.”

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I had just started responding to the question posed by the hon. Member for Sikongo in light of the progress we have made with the official creditors and how that will affect the discussions with the private creditors.

Mr Speaker, the private creditors have been observing with a lot of interest and confidence because for many years, they were owed money, their debt was not being serviced and discussions were hardly possible. When the New Dawn Administration came into power, the private creditors started seeing how we have been engaging and discussing. They have been seeing the consistency and the success, and they believe that, now, they are dealing with a credible group of people. Therefore, I believe that we will make progress with them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

In order to accommodate the four hon. Members who have indicated, I have added ten extra minutes.

Mr Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Munsanje.

Hon. Members: He is still eating!

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Minister for clarifying that the Government continued with the services of Lazard as a consultant. It is a demonstration of the Government being a going concern.

Mr Speaker, at the stage that we have reached with this restructuring, are we now going to see the resumption of some of the capital projects such as roads by the Government? I have in mind the stretch on the Great North Road between Serenje and Mpulungu, which is in a very deplorable state.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, part of the answer is that it is not possible to resume with all the contracts that have been signed, which we found in place. The reason for that is that even if we restructure the debt, the commitments that were made for all the roads and other pieces of infrastructure were far too much compared with the resources that we had then and the resources that we are going to have after restructuring. So, the truth of the matter is that either we forget about some of those or we structure the format of contracts to lower the specifications. However, I think, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is there. All I can say is that in infrastructure, there are certain things they call major arteries, major trunk roads and the roads that the hon. Member has mentioned belong to that category. Serenje, the Great North Road all the way to Nakonde and then, of course, Serenje to Mpika all the way to Mpulungu are important trunk roads. So, within the consent that we have, I am sure,  the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will find a way of dealing with those roads.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, although you did not mention the Chipata/Chadiza Road.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think, at the time of the Budget presentation, I did indicate that the Chipata/Chadiza Road is one of those that will be worked on by the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. So, the people of Chipata and Chadiza can –

Hon Government Members: And Luangeni!

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, why is the hon. Minister not engaging the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to utilise the gold holdings the country has, including the recently confiscated gold at the international airport, whose value also increased recently and it has high value to finance the debt the country has?

Did the hon. Minster get the question?

Dr Musokotwane: No.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I will repeat: Why is the hon. Minister not utilising the gold reserves …

Hon. Opposition Members: Sugilite!

Mr Katambo: … even the sugilite, yes, that the country has to negotiate with the IMF over the debt the country has?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, if it is gold that was confiscated at the airport and, of course, the sugilite, I think, we are all aware that cases like that have their own processes. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security here says that, in fact, it was fake gold. However, even if it were real, anything that is still in the custody of law enforcement agencies until the time they conclude and say they have disposed of that matter, of course, we cannot touch. However, the hon. Minister said, and, we have all read, that the gold was fake. If it is gold underground, this is the very reason the Government is creating the conditions for that gold to be mined and become available. This is because it is not enough to have a mineral underground. The mineral only becomes useful to us when there is somebody to mine and sell it so that it becomes money. As long as it is underground, whether it is copper, gold or oil, I am sorry, we cannot use that to import anything.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning a supplementary question. First of all, I would like to say congratulations on a job well done to the entire Cabinet and His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

Mr Speaker, now that we have got this headroom to spend, is the hon. Minister able to assure the good people of Mbabala that economic roads, such as the Macha/Muyobe/Dundumwezi and Pemba roads, will be tarred in order to increase their value to the economy of Zambia? Those are areas where maize and many other products that feed the nation come from.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think, my answer is similar to the one that I made earlier: the quality of resources will be better off compared with the period before debt restructuring. However, that does not necessarily mean that every road in Zambia will be tarred. The assurance I can give the hon. Member is as he recalls, the allocation to the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for next year was enhanced quite significantly from what it was in 2023. We have enhanced it significantly because we do realise, having listened to our hon. Colleagues here, that the demand for good roads everywhere in the country is very high.

Mr Speaker, it is up to the experts, of course, working with other stakeholders, to decide which road must be tarred. However, as we have been discussing with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, not tarring a road does not mean leaving it un-motorable. The roads can still be made motorable, especially if we commit ourselves to maintaining them every year. That is what matters. If a road is maintained every year, even if there is no tar, you can still achieve speeds of 100km, 110kmor 120 km per hour. In most rural areas, that speed is satisfactory. What is bad is to leave roads for five or ten years without maintaining them and that causes problems.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this statement. There are a number of harsh conditions demanded by the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and one of them is the removal of fuel and electricity subsidies. On fuel, in particular, has the Government put in place a trigger point at which it might come in with subsidies? What I mean is that currently, fuel is almost at K30 per litre. Has the Government agreed with the IMF that, for instance, if fuel reaches K50 per litre, then, it will come in with subsidies?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think, sometimes, there is misunderstanding because of people thinking that if you are in a programme with the IMF, you are going to be subjected to very harsh conditions, including the removal of subsidies. The truth of the matter is that the IMF merely says, “You have so much money. How you decide to distribute that money is up to you. It is entirely up to you.”

Mr Speaker, under the previous Government, fuel was being subsidised. That subsidy on fuel cost roughly US$500 million per year. That is the subsidy that was being provided. Now, the question is this: Was that good? Our hon. Colleagues may, ‘yes, it was good because we had cheap fuel’. However, at the time when subsidies were being provided on fuel, schools had no teachers.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: In a place like Liuwa, there were two teachers in a school that ran from Grade 1 to Grade 9.

Mr Speaker, when fuel was being subsidised, it was at a time when the majority of our children were failing to go to school because they could not afford to pay school fees in high school, let alone alone boarding fees. Therefore, most children lived in villages or shanty compounds, especially the female children. As a result, they were exposed to all sorts of hazards.

Sir, I can say that was the vision of the PF Government. It did not care about teachers and school children, but decided to provide money for fuel subsidies. On the other hand, the UPND Government has said that when the resources are limited, we are going to provide money for teachers. We are going to provide money to make sure that every child, no matter what family it comes from, goes to school. We are going to provide money to make sure that classrooms are built. We are also going to put our money into building clinics across the country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: If I may ask the question, who is more reasonable between the two Governments?

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Who is more reasonable? Who cares for the population? Who cares for the poor people between the one who subsidises fuel so that the hon. Members of Parliament here can buy cheap fuel and the one who puts money into making sure that children go to school and there are teachers and books? I would say that the UPND Government is definitely more reasonable.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

BURNING TO DEATH OF TWO PEOPLE BY A MOB IN MWEMBEZHI CONSTITUENCY

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Mr Speaker, let me thank you for giving me the opportunity to deliver a ministerial statement to update the nation following the killing of two men on 2^nd October, 2023, by an irate mob in Shibuyunji District. The two men were allegedly murdered on suspicion that they were involved in cattle rustling in the area. I will also use this opportunity to brief the nation on to the occurrences in Mumbwa, where we lost two businessmen.

Mr Speaker, in the first place, allow me, on behalf of the Government and, indeed, on my own behalf, to offer profound condolences to the families of the two men who died following the instant mob justice by the community in Shibuyunji District. I also take this occasion to wish a quick recovery to the other two men who were injured by the irate mob.

Mr Speaker, the House may recall that on 13^th October, 2023, some irate residents of Mumbwa District rioted after word circulated to the effect that two suspects involved in the ritual killings that had been recorded in the area had been apprehended and detained at Mumbwa Police Station. The riots erupted after the police declined to hand over the two suspects to irate residents who were demanding for instant punishment to be meted on the suspects. The riotous behaviour led to the destruction of public and private property, looting and, sadly, to the loss of the lives of two businessmen.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police instituted investigations, resulting in the arrest of nine suspects, four of whom were charged with theft, two with house breaking and theft, and the other three with breaking into a building and committing a felony therein. Seven of the nine suspects pleaded guilty to the charges and were sentenced to five years imprisonment. Amongst the convicts are two females who were given minor sentences of simple imprisonment while all the men have been sentenced to imprisonment with hard labour. The other two suspects are still appearing in the courts of law after they denied the charges.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police has also arrested one suspect in connection with the deaths of the two businessmen, David Arnold Mwakyoma and Ernest Sikaonga. The suspect will appear in court soon. Similarly, the two suspects who were arrested in relation to the suspected ritual killings are awaiting appearance in the courts of law. Investigations into the two murder cases are still ongoing.

Mr Speaker, in the Shibuyunji District murder cases that occurred on 2^nd October, 2023, Shibuyunji Police Station received a report of murder in which two men were burnt to death by an irate mob in Mulimba Village in Chief Shakumbila’s Chiefdom. The two men, both of whom were from Shibuyunji District, were burnt to death on suspicion of being involved in cattle rustling in the area. Facts of the matter are that on 2^nd October, 2023, between 01:00 hours and 04:00 hours, residents of Mulimba area blocked a road and stopped a Volvo Truck, registration No. CAA 5837, which was carrying ten herds of cattle, after they suspected that the cattle were stolen. The residents apprehended the owner of the truck and the driver, both of Chilanda Village in Chibombo District. They also apprehended now deceased, Remmy Mwiinga of Mulimba Village and Benard Phiri of Mapushi Village in Chief Shakumbila’s Chiefdom while two other suspects ran away.

Mr Speaker, unfortunately, Remmy Mwiinga and Benard Phiri were burnt to death by the irate mob. The owner of the vehicle and the driver were assaulted, but were rescued by the police and taken to Nampundwe Health Centre for medical treatment. It was later established that the herds of cattle were stolen from a sixty-one-year-old farmer of Mulisa Village in Chief Shakumbila’s Chiefdom in Shibuyunji District who had reported a case of stock theft on 17^th July, 2023, at Shibuyunji Police Station. The stolen cattle were valued at K174,000. Investigations into both murder and stock theft cases have continued. On 9^th October, 2023, one of the suspects who had ran away when the irate mob impounded the truck carrying the stolen cattle was apprehended. He has since been arrested and charged with the offence of stock theft contrary to Section 275(a) of the Penal Code, Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia, and will appear in court soon.

Mr Speaker, on 11^th October, 2023, a post-mortem was conducted on the two bodies of the men who had been burnt to death. Investigations are ongoing to ascertain what was done and arrest the culprits involved.

Mr Speaker, mob justice violates the principles of the rule of law, especially the rights to life and fair trial, which is embedded in our Constitution. In the quest to fight crime, citizens must always remember that they cannot, and must not, take the law into their own hands. Citizens must allow justice to take its course even when they perceive that the wheels of justice are turning slowly. Mob justice is wrong and has no justification whatsoever, it undermines the spirit of having a legal system. History everywhere is replete with examples in which mob justice and vigilante action led to deaths of innocent people or people have been denied an opportunity to seek justice for a wrong committed against them.

Mr Speaker, all cases of mob justice have one similarity among them whenever occur; someone taking the law into their own hands, someone innocent ending up dying or justice being denied. Differently put, taking the law into one’s own hands could lead to injustices or an end to law as a source of social order. Taking matters into one’s own hands puts at risk the entire system of the rule of law and due process with its important checks and balances. If instant mob justice is allowed, it will erode the confidence that members of the public and other stakeholders have in the justice system in the country.

Mr Speaker, as a responsible Government anchored on the rule of law, the New Dawn Administration we will not tolerate lawlessness and violence as an act of intimidation, and implores communities to raise concerns responsibly. Misinformation about the performance of the justice system is feeding instant mob justice actions, which constitute serious breaches of our criminal law and human rights standards.

Mr Speaker, allow me to commend the efforts of law enforcement agencies to arrest suspects in these criminal acts, as well as other members of the public who speak out against such irrational behaviour. I urge communities to do much more to stop the situation from worsening. In the same vein, I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to play an important role in countering misinformation in their constituencies and religious and traditional leaders to send clear messages to their communities. Communities should play the role of ensuring that erring individuals are given the opportunity to reform into functional members of society by allowing the justice system to do its work.

Mr Speaker, to ensure that communities behave responsibly and are aware of the law, the Zambia Police Service has enhanced community policing initiatives and has continued to conduct community sensitisations on the dangers of people taking the law into their own hands, besides applying the law firmly and fairly wherever the scourge occurs.

Mr Speaker, to build public confidence in the justice system and the entire Government service delivery system, the Government has strengthened the operations of Integrity Committees in institutions. This will ensure adherence to ethical standards, values and principles by officers. With reference to stock theft, the Government is stiffening the legal framework governing stock theft to deter would-be offenders. I am aware that a Bill on stock theft will be presented to this House to curb the vice in the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement delivered by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for this detailed statement.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has actually delivered two statements; one to do with the case there were stock thefts and another one in which we lost two businessmen. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell the nation the monetary loss that was occasioned in the Mumbwa incident in which two businessmen were killed? Could he tell the nation how much was lost, especially given that Government property was also not spared.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I also want to thank my hon. Colleague, the Member of Parliament for Roan.

Madam Speaker, unfortunately, I am not in a position to give the quantum in terms of how much was lost in Mumbwa. However, at an appropriate time, I can furnish the House with the information that is required.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Mr Speaker, thank you for according the people of Katombola an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security a question. I also thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate statement that he has made. Allow the people of Katombola to convey their deepest condolences to those who lost their lives in the incident in Mumbwa.

Mr Speaker, from the ministerial statement, it is clear that there is general mistrust and misunderstanding between the police and members of the community. My question has to do with rural policing because there are no police officers in most rural areas and, so, ultimately, the people end up becoming the police themselves. What is the Government doing to ensure that rural areas like Katombola Constituency and the place where this incident occurred in Shibuyunji also have police officers and that these incidents are reduced? I know that there is a police post at Shibuyunji, but most of the areas are not policed to avert such occurrences. Katombola Constituency, for example, only has one police post covering five chiefdoms.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Dr. Andeleki for this question.

Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Members of this august House and the public at large that the Zambia Police Service is introducing community policing. We tend to believe that once community policing is entrenched in members of the community will inform us of any individuals engaging in criminal activities and we will arrest the perpetrators of crime. We are all aware that most of the criminals or alleged criminals reside within communities. It is, therefore, incumbent upon members of the public to work with the Zambia Police Service.

Further, Mr Speaker, we are enhancing the Police Service Reserve Unit so that it can work with the communities. As I said the other day, this Government has managed to buy the requisite police vehicles. I am aware that in a number of constituencies and districts, even when the police were present, they were not able to police areas due to a lack of transport. I hope that once vehicles are distributed to the constituencies before the end of the month, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … the situation will improve. We are in the process of finalising the registration of all the vehicles. The vehicles have been bought and they are available.

Mr Speaker, I also want to state that once we put these measures in place, with the support of our colleagues in building police posts in their areas, we will be able to provide policemen and policewomen to serve those communities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement. My condolences to the families who lost their dear loved ones during those incidents that the hon. Minister mentioned.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mbabala want to get an assurance. We have had situations in which people who are arrested over serious cases like murder are released from police custody. Of course, there is a legal process that we understand, but members of communities may not understand, hence, the need for community sensitisation. My question is on the same police vehicles that we need for mobility in Mbabala Constituency to attend to issues such as stock theft. Just a week ago, we lost ten animals loaded at a certain point in Mang’unza. The community has ideas about the people who were loading the animals at night. The issue is about the police having a vehicle that they can use to quickly move in and act when matters arise. Could the hon. Minister assure the people of Mbabala Constituency that the police vehicle for Mbabala will be stationed at the police station in Mbabala Constituency and not in Choma town, since we have three police stations.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I want to inform this august House and the people out there that if there are police stations in the constituency, the motor vehicles will be based at those police stations or that police station.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: It will not be based at a central location if there are police stations in the constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, we have been implementing community policing and sensitisation in this country for a long time. However, it appears that occurrences of mob justice are not going down. To the contrary, they are on the rise. Is there something wrong with the current policing and sensitisation, especially in rural communities where mob justice seems to be on the rise?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I want to state that these mob justice occurrences we are witnessing now started during the period when we had gassing. Members of the public had lost confidence in the system, hence, resorting to mob justice. However, we are doing orientation on the part of the police and educating members of the public on their civic duties. We also want to state that the justice system is not just about policing. We are aware of the grievances members of the public have of certain alleged perpetrators of crimes who are taken to court, but later released. Then they go back to the communities and continue committing crimes. Such are the issues that make the public to not believe in the justice system. However, we are working together. As the hon. Colleague is aware, being one of the people who are prominent in the legal system, some of the injustices which members of the public have been raising. It is incumbent upon us, not just the police, but also the Judiciary, to ensure that processes are speeded up and justice is dispensed openly and clearly so that there are no allegations of inimical practices that may arise in the justice system.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, this incident actually happened in my constituency, and we are not happy with the injustice that is happening there. The people of Mwembezhi told me that whenever they apprehend suspects and take them to the police station, the suspects are released even before the people who apprehend them reach their homes.

Mr B. Mpundu: Where?

Mr Jamba: They go back to their homes.

Mr Speaker, to tell you the truth, the people in Mwembezhi have no confidence in the police. They say that the police are part of the people who engage in cattle rustling. How is the hon. Minister going to manoeuvre in a constituency like Mwembezhi and convince people that these men and women in uniform are not part of the people stealing animals?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to encourage my hon. Colleague to ensure that members of the public are educated and that a sense of civic responsibility is inculcated into them.

Mr Speaker, we all believe in the rule of law. I have no doubt in my mind that all of us here know that if someone is arrested for a criminal offence that is bailable or bondable, they must be given police bond or bail. That is what the law says. If somebody steals herds of cattle from Luampa, you do not expect the police to keep that person in cells for a long period because the law does not allow that. If he or she is arrested and taken to the police and eventually to court, he or she will be given bail and the trial will commence. If there is no evidence, he or she will be acquitted and be allowed to be in the community. These are issues and principles that all of us in this House cherish. Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So, we cannot say that somebody who has been found with a stolen cow is guilty and must be jailed, no. However, we have taken certain measures, and my hon. Colleague, the Minister of Justice, has already introduced a Bill to make stock theft no longer bailable. So, Hon. Jamba should know that these issues are being addressed by this august House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to recommend to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) that it provides any assistance to the people who lost property?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am not in a position to recommend to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) that its provides assistance. However, if there is a need for any assistance to be given to those people, the individuals involved can apply to the Vice-President’s Office for assistance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister took time to read his ministerial statement. I will use my discretion and add ten more minutes to this segment.

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, you may proceed.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I am a livestock farmer. So, I know that it is painful to lose animals to thefts. I feel very sorry for the sixty-one-year-old man. My condolences to the families who lost their loved ones.

Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister mentioned a Bill that will be presented to this House. I just want to know whether livestock farmers were consulted and whether they had an input in the Bill, which is yet to be brought to the Floor of this House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: That is a different question but, maybe, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security can shed some light.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, most of the complaints pertaining to stock theft emanate from the stock keepers in our various constituencies. Further, even when the Bill is brought before the House, witnesses will be called to appear before the relevant Committee. One of the key witnesses is the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU) which, we believe, represents the majority of those who keep cattle. The representatives will be called for a session at Parliament.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Mr Speaker, for some of us who keep cattle, it is really painful when people steal our animals, especially after keeping them for a long time.

Mr Speaker, in the Bill that the hon. Minister will bring to this House, is he not thinking of changing the law so that stock theft is made a non-bailable offence? Further, is the Government not thinking of introducing either brand marks or earrings for whoever is convicted so that wherever they go to visit, they will be chased ...

Laughter

Mr Mubika: ...because everyone will know that they are criminals?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we will not endeavour to deal with issues as proposed by my hon. Colleague. However, I can say that we are working with the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock to emulate what is being done in Botswana where every animal is brand-marked and has a chip embedded in it so that if a cow is stolen from Luampa, you can easily trace it. I think, the hon. Minister of Justice has advanced with that proposal and, I think, very soon, a Bill will be brought to Parliament to ensure that stock theft is eliminated. We may not eliminate cattle theft entirely, but we can reduce it. Botswana is an example of a country where people have managed to control stock theft.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify. He said that police vehicles would be stationed at police stations. What about constituencies that do not have police stations, but only have police posts? You will find that a certain place is a district and a constituency at the same time, yet it has no police station. There are, maybe, one or two police posts in that district. What will happen to such areas?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I have no doubt that administrative arrangements will be made in districts like the one my hon. Colleague has just talked about. In situations where there are three constituencies and no outlying police stations, all the vehicles will be based at the headquarters. How they will be managed them will be discussed with the hon. Member of Parliament because the vehicles will be labelled. For example, the vehicle for Kasenengwa will be labelled, ‘Kasenengwa Constituency’ for easy identification.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, gratifying that the Government is buying 156 vehicles for the 156 constituencies at once. Congratulations to His Excellency the President and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is: Many animals are being stolen from Zimbabwe and made to cross Lake Kariba into Sinazongwe in Zambia. The trend is worrisome. I am also aware that animals are being stolen from Namwala and taken to Mumbwa and Mwembezhi. The same applies to Monze. Some are stolen from Monze and taken to the Western Province. Does the hon. Minister not think that it is also prudent to consider marine patrols apart from the vehicles that the Government has acquired for the same undertaking?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we have noted the challenges pertaining to certain constituencies, wherein motor vehicles may not be used. We have also bought a number of boats that will be used by the Zambia Police Service, Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and Department of Immigration. I can give an example here of the situation that is obtaining in Lunga Constituency in Luapula Province. A vehicle would not be ideal for that constituency. So, we are providing boats for use by the Zambia Police Service.

Mr Kasandwe interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: I agree. Is it Lunga?

Hon. Opposition Member: Lunga District!

Mr Mwiimbu: I see. Anyway, the district is Lunga, is it not so?

Mr Speaker, we are providing boats for such areas, including the Western Province. We are aware of the challenges in other areas.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, these vehicles are a product of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which some people do not believe. Further, are they a product of the CDF? Are they going to be commissioned before the end of this month, as the Minister has stated?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I do confirm that we used the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to purchase these vehicles. That is why every constituency will have police vehicles labelled according to a particular constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I am very excited to hear the good news that all constituencies will receive the vehicles by the end of the month, which is only a few weeks, if not days, from now. Will there be a function to which hon. Members will be invited to attend like the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development did when he handed over the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) vehicles?

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Do you want to attend?

Mr Mung’andu: Yes, I want to attend.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Is there going to be such a function?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am agreeable to the proposal by the hon. Member for Chama South that every one of us who would be willing is invited to participate and I ask the hon. Member for Chitambo to give a vote of thanks as we deliver these vehicles.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, most hon. Members have concentrated on stock thefts. However, my concern is on ritual practices that have led to most of the mob justice incidents. Some rituals are performed by those who want to enhance their businesses. Others perform rituals popularly known as kikondo, whereby a special coffin locates the alleged killer of a person. In most cases, you will find that once the coffin identifies the person who is alleged to have killed someone, there is mob justice in the area, and the suspect is killed. My question to the hon. Minister is: Why has the Government allowed this practice to go on? This happened last week in an area in Solwezi. Many people have lost lives to instant mob justice.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I want to categorically state on the Floor of this House that the Government will not condone such unlawful activities. I am aware of the issues that the hon. Member has raised. Kikondo is very prominent in the North-Western Province, and I have had interactions with the leadership of the province, including traditional leaders, to discourage their members from practicing activities such as Kikondo.

Mr Speaker, even the issue that has been raised by my hon. Colleague pertaining to the belief that if one goes to Kalabo, one will be given some medicine to make him or her rich should not be condoned because there is no such thing. You will find that the one who is giving the so-called charms does not even have money to buy Coca-Cola, yet you go and consult him so that he can give you money to buy a bus. Those are just retrogressive beliefs. It is up to us, as Government, religious and community leaders, to discourage people from believing in such rituals, which are being performed in a number of localities. All of us who hail from rural areas will note that once somebody becomes elderly and has white hair …

Hon. Member: Like you!

Mr Mwiimbu: ... like me, they become a suspect, …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … and that is why my neighbour here in the House always dyes his hair so that he does not have white hair. It is because of fear.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: All I can say is that these beliefs are retrogressive and that they will not make us move forward, which is what we, in the United Party for National Development (UPND) believe in. So, I would like to encourage everyone of us to teach our communities that these beliefs in witchcraft are retrogressive and not in our interest.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Only one hon. Member’s indication is left. Time has run out,but I will allow the hon. Member for Dundumwezi to ask his question.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I am grateful to you for giving me this opportunity.

I am also grateful that the ministry has included speed boats for the Police Service in areas where motor vehicles may not be used effectively. However, the hon. Minister will agree with me that most cattle rustlers do not use public roads. Would the ministry consider purchasing electric motorcyles to enable police officers to also reach areas that are away from public roads to ensure that cattle rustling is completely eradicated or reduced?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to confirm that the Zambia Police Service is considering purchasing motorcycles, are cheaper to service and maintain. In most rural areas, motor vehicles may not be the best form of transport. So, we are considering motorcycles as we have already bought police motor vehicles. We hope that once we make money available as the police will buy motorcycles as well as bicycles for use in certain areas.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Unfortunately, in a certain part of Zambia, you cannot use bicycles because of the sandy environment there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

OUTBREAK OF STRANGE CASSAVA DISEASE IN BANGWEULE, BAHATI, MILENGE AND CHITAMBO

116. Mr Chonde (Milenge) on behalf of Mr. Kasandwe (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government is aware that there is an outbreak of a strange cassava disease that is causing the tubers to rot, in the following Parliamentary Constituencies:

1. Bangweulu;

1. Bahati;

1. Milenge; and

1. Chitambo; and

1. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to contain the outbreak and ensure food security in the affected constituencies.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Mr Speaker, considering the importance of this question, allow me to give a little more detail before I give specific answers.

Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the current cassava disease situation, including cassava mosaic disease and cassava brown streak disease. Since 2022, there have been reports of cassava rotting in various parts of the country, including the constituencies stated in the question. This presents a worrisome food security threat, especially given that cassava is an important food staple in the affected areas and, therefore, begs an urgent solution.

Sir, in response to the reports, the Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture, undertook activities to investigate the issue. Research scientists from the Zambia Agriculture Research Institute (ZARI) carried out cassava disease surveillance in districts that included Chifunabuli in Luapula Province, Ikelengi and Mwinilunga in the North-Western Province. You will notice that the spread of this problem is very wide and, therefore, worrisome. Results from both field inspections and laboratory analysis of samples collected during the 2021/2022 and the 2022/2023 crop seasons confirmed widespread rotting, especially in older cassava fields. The observed rotting on cassava tubers was not related to the cassava brown streak disease, which is primarily present in Kaputa, Nsama, Chienge and Nchelenge districts. The problem in those areas is actually deadlier than what we are going to discuss this afternoon. Admittedly, the survey did not include Bahati, Milenge and Chitambo, but the situation in those areas might not be any different from the areas where the surveys were conducted. Both field observations and laboratory analyses of samples collected from the surveyed areas showed that the rotting of cassava roots is attributed to the following:

1. high infestation of termites;

1. partial harvests where roots are removed from the same plant at different times; and

1. infestation by moles and rats.

Mr Speaker, all the above factors cause injury to the roots, and that allows disease agents to enter, resulting in the rotting of the roots. Further, planting cassava in flood-prone areas causes the roots to rot. Changes in weather patterns, especially during the rainy season, and flash floods, which we have witnessed, also contribute to cassava roots rotting. Though cassava is a tropical plant, it does not require excessive water.

To mitigate against the rotting of the roots, the ministry, through ZARI and the Department of Agriculture, has taken the following measures:

1. advising farmers to follow good agricultural practices, such as:

1. planting in non-flood-prone areas;

1. planting in regions and areas where soils easily allow water to swell;

1. tilling land in order to break termite nests before planting is done;

1. avoiding recycling planting material, which might be infected with disease and other casual agents; and
2. avoiding partial harvesting of cassava on a given plant; and

1. training of farmers in cassava pest and disease recognition and management.

Mr Speaker, a combination of these measures will help reduce crop loss and assure food security. The issue of cultivars is absolutely important because we do not have some of the diseases in Zambia, but we are importing cultivars from other countries, especially into the northern parts of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I deliberately took time to explain, and I thank you for having given me that time because this is a very serious problem that we cannot underplay. Most of our colleagues in the northern parts depend on cassava as a staple food. Let me now answer the question directly so that we can conclude on it.

Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the outbreak of the disease that is causing cassava tubers to rot in the constituencies that the hon. Member has mentioned.

Mr Speaker, the disease has been attributed, as indicated, to a high infestation of termites, partial harvesting, where a few roots are removed from the same plant at different times, and infestation by moles and rats.

Mr Speaker, one of the measures being taken to assist affected farmers is advising them to follow good agricultural practices, which include the following:

1. planting in non-flood prone areas;

1. planting in ridges where soils easily allow water to swell;

1. tilling land in order to break termite nests before new planting is done;

1. avoiding recycling planting materials which may be infected and will have those causal agents; and

1. avoiding partial harvesting of cassava.

Mr Speaker, further, to ensure food security in the affected areas, the Government is training farmers in cassava pest and disease recognition and management. The combination of these measures will definitely reduce crop loss and build on food security.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, indeed, the disease has affected many of the fields is not limited to Milenge, Chitambo, Bahati and Bangweulu. It is also in Lubansenshi Constituency. It is in this House where I reported that in the Northern Province, in Lubansenshi Constituency, we have the same problem. I do acknowledge that people from the Ministry of Agriculture went on the ground and discovered that there is this problem. They also recommended that the people be provided with relief food from the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) but, to date, nothing has been done.

Mr Speaker, our people in rural areas depend on cassava as a staple food. The measures that the hon. Minister has explained to this august House are being implemented. Unfortunately, the disease has continued advancing, and most of our farmers are being affected. Is the Government considering compensating the farmers, and at the same time, finding practical measures for ensuring that the cassava survives? This is because the measures that the hon. Minister has outlined to this House are being implemented, but nothing is coming out.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture does not really compensate where there is crop loss. If the cassava was insured, then, it would be for the insuring company to compensate. If it was maize, for example, under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), which is insured, yes, the Government would compensate because there is a component of insurance in that particular programme. In this case, cassava is grown by the majority of the people on their own and, therefore, it would be wrong for me to stand here and say that the farmers will be compensated. What the Ministry of Agriculture can do, together with the Office of the Vice-President, which is responsible for disaster management, is make sure that food is made available in areas where our farmers have lost food. What we are also doing is working with, for example, the International Institute of Tropical Agriculture (IITA), and we are giving good planting material that is disease free. That is what we are able to do.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed this House that a team was tasked to investigate the cassava problem. How much did it cost the ministry for this investigation exercise to be undertaken?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I do not know the cost off the cuff, but I would be able to provide the information if I am given an opportunity. I would be very happy to learn from the hon. Member because there should be a good reason he has brought up this question.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, having listened to the hon. Minister on the study that was carried out, I would like to say that as the people of Chilubi, we reported to the Vice-President’s Office the outbreak of brown streak cassava disease. I do not know why Chilubi is missing on that list of places where the research was conducted.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has attributed a disease – I do not know which one he has picked from the two which he talked about, but my concern is mainly on the brown streak disease.

Mr Speaker, is the ministry thinking of undertaking a comprehensive study that will include Lupososhi, Chilubi, Lunga, Kaputa, Nchelenge, Chienge and Lubansenshi? This is because according to the people affected, brown streak disease has destroyed crops, and that is exhibited. Maybe, the officers from the ministry have not been reaching out to those people, but it is quite widespread. So, is the ministry considering undertaking a national comprehensive study so that it understands the problem as it looks for solutions?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I think, I should start on the point that the Ministry of Agriculture is fully aware of this problem and its devastating nature. However, there is always some misconception. You may have noticed that when I was responding, I gave reasons we had that problem, which is very different to what the hon. Member is discussing. What the hon. Member is discussing is a terminal problem that has no cure as at now. The cure is to get rid of the crop and use proper planting material. For the brown streak disease, there is no cure. It is a viral disease that has no cure, is absolutely devastating in nature and we do not have it in Zambia. We are importing it from a neighbouring country, which the Ministry of Agriculture is in discussions with. The best thing to do is ask for good planting material. The country is under surveillance, and that might help on this particular cassava problem.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I want to also place it on record that our farmers in Kanchibiya have been affected by the brown streak disease as well.

Mr Speaker, cassava is the crop for about 30 per cent of our population, according to some studies in this country. What is the Government doing to scale up the production of cassava? Of course, one of the interventions is to bring in new stock. However, what can the Government do to scale up cassava production in the context of food security at the national level?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, this is a very important question, and this is the guidance that the ministry is giving. If one wants to go into massive cassava production, especially for food consumption, I would encourage one to come to the ministry, and we link one up with the IITA so that one can get proper, clean and disease-free planting material. If the person is going to the next field, just getting cultivars and planting them, then, that person is going to have a very serious problem. So, the farmers should come so that we give them the planting material. The country has good planting material.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that during the course of this month, he is supposed to go and open a cassava milling plant in Chitambo. I can, at least, inform him that out of the ten wards in Chitambo, five are in the wetlands and those are the producers of cassava. Through the ministry, we tried to diversify the five wards from fishing and growing cassava to also growing rice. At some point, something big happened and the rice which was produced was not bought by the Government. The people in the five wards are now suffering from hunger. I want the hon. Minister to come out very clearly on two things. Firstly, on the milling plant, so that it does not become a white elephant because there will be nowhere to get cassava from. Secondly, how is the ministry going to assist the people in Chipundu, Chalilo, Lulimala and Katonga wards to survive as they are being taught new methods of growing cassava?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his question.

Sir, in all fairness, I should take note of the concern because I did not come prepared to answer this question. I came prepared to answer on the cassava disease problem.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chonde: Mr Speaker, we have heard the hon. Minister’s explanation. Most of the intervention programmes are educational, but as far as Milenge is concerned, I have not seen them. When will the ministry start educating people as an intervention measure? Further, as he responds, could he expand his answer to speak about the specific intervention measures in terms of relief.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the Office of the Vice-President is responsible for the relief programme in this country. I will take the hon. Member’s concern to the Office of the Vice-President. At the Ministry of Agriculture, we do not deal with relief. In terms of interventions, they are on-going and the situation is under the serious surveillance, as I said, of the ministry.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

REHABILITATION OF THE MAKULULU/LUKANGA ROAD IN BWACHA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

117. Mr. Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

(a)          when the Government will rehabilitate the Makululu/Lukanga Road in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)          how many kilometres of the road will be covered in the exercise;

(c)           what the cost of the project is; and

(d)          what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Makululu/Lukanga Road in Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency will be done once funds are made available and secured.

Mr Speaker, the road is approximately 12 km long, and that is what is expected to be covered when the work commences.

Sir, the cost of the project will be determined once the road has been surveyed and the bill of quantities (BoQ) is prepared.

Mr Speaker, lastly but not least, the timeframe will only be determined once the technical details of the project have been provided.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, I am so thankful to the hon. Minister for the responses.

Sir, I just have a follow-up to part (a) of the question. The hon. Minister has said the road will be rehabilitated when funds are available or secured. The people of Makululu leading to Lukanga Swamps would want to know or have an idea when the funds will be made available or secured.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the funds will be made available once the road is put on the work plan. As I speak to the hon. Member of Parliament, the work plan for Kabwe has not be rolled out. Therefore, I can only tell him when that funds will be made available when that work plan is concluded.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about the work plan or when the road in question is put on the work plan. Are the people in the same community likely to see the road in question put on the work plan before the end of this year or next year?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha was once a Minister for the Central Province and a. Member in the same constituency where he is today and he understands how the Government operates. The needs assessment must be done by the local authority in his constituency, and he should take part in arriving at the priority roads in his own constituency. Thereafter, the plan should be submitted to the ministry and then consideration of it will be made. Things do not happen by osmosis. From here, I cannot just go and say because Hon. Mushanga has asked a question about the Lukanga Road, I must start running around. The local authority where he comes from must make the work plan.

I thank you, Sir.

MIKILINGI FARMING BLOCKS IN SOLWEZI EAST CONSTITUENCY

118. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. what the total number of farms in Mikilingi Farming Block in Solwezi East Parliamentary Constituency was as of March, 2023;

1. of the number above, how many farms were occupied and being developed as of the same date;

1. what the procedure for acquiring land in the farming block is;

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct access roads in the farming block; and

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the Mikilingi Farming Block in Solwezi is 100,000 ha. It has sixty-seven farms whose total is 52,638 ha, which were planned and offered by the Government through the Ministry Agriculture as of March 2023. However, this number does not include those that were offered by the traditional authorities before the establishment of the farming block.

Mr Speaker, the Solwezi Farming Block is located in both Chief Kalilele, which has 60,000 ha and 40,000 ha in Chief Mujimanzovu of Mushindamo District. Of the sixty-seven farms, only two farms, both located in Chief Mujimanzovu’s part of the farming block, are occupied and being developed while the rest are still idle.

Mr Speaker, Zambians, non-Zambians and corporate bodies are all eligible to apply for land in these farming blocks. However, they must satisfy the eligibility conditions as set out in the Revised Farming Block Guidelines of 2016 as well as the provisions of the 1995 Lands Act. The applications are made to the Office of the Permanent Secretary (PS) through the District Agriculture Co-ordinators (DACOs). The applications are scrutinised by the Ministry of Agriculture and three inter-ministerial committees, namely the Technical Committee, Steering Committee and the Council of Ministers. The committees scrutinise and undertake due diligence on every application before consideration is made. Applicants are required to pay all statutory fees related to land acquisition.

Mr Speaker, we do have a revised guidelines document, which has been running in the media. With your permission, after the required number of days, I can lay it on the Table so that hon. Members can have direct access to the document within the Parliament precincts.

Mr Speaker, the Solwezi Farming Block is one of six farming blocks that have been prioritised for funding in terms of infrastructure development. However, funding has been withheld pending resolution of land issues with the traditional leaders and investors. Apart from the Government funding, Solwezi Farming Block is also eligible for funding under the Zambia Growth Opportunities Programme for Results Project (ZAMGRO), which is the US$300 million programme we talk about.

Finally, Mr Speaker, the plans will be implemented as soon as outstanding issues are resolved.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for the detailed response.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should be aware that from the time the farming block was marked in 2008, thirteen years down the line, nothing has been done, as he has stated, apart from the very few farms that he has talked about. There is no passable road and no electricity. There is nothing there to call it a farming block for. In the thirteen years, because the locals thought nothing meaningful would come out of this farming block, they ended up encroaching the 60,000 ha in Chief Kalilele’s area and the 40,000 ha in Chief Mujimanzovu’s area. So, many people have settled there. What plans does the Government have for them, since it has been stated that, indeed, any stakeholders who would need to apply for land in that area can apply? What plans does the Government have for the local people who have settled there for ages and consider that place as their inherited land?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, our position is very clear, and it is that any farming block where we go and find problems, we leave. The situation in Solwezi is the same as in the Eastern Province. We are not ready to delve into problems. However, if the local leadership, like the hon. Member, and especially the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, can help us to resolve these issues, we have the resources to go ahead. Those who have been to Shikabeta will agree with me that we are constructing roads and taking power there. The same is happening in Luena. So, where there are no problems, we go. The same is soon going to happen in Kalumwange in Kaoma. We will also be going to Musokotwane in the Southern Province. So, we will go where there are no problems, and it is incumbent upon us to resolve these problems. These issues must be resolved. We will not go into troubled areas.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

UPGRADING OF MPIKA TOWN COUNCIL TO MUNICIPALITY STATUS

119. Mr. Kapyanga (Mpika) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Mpika Town Council to a municipality;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the hon. Member for Mpika and this august House that the Government has no plans currently to upgrade Mpika Council to a municipality.

Mr Speaker, the timeframe will only be determined when the local authority makes a formal application, which will then be considered based on the given guidelines.

Mr Speaker, there are no current plans to upgrade Mpika Town Council to a municipality, as the local authority, Mipka Town Council, has not yet made that formal application referred to in parts (a) and (b) of the question.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response.

Sir, a formal application was made in 2019. The then Minister of Local Government, Hon. Vincent Mwale, even alluded to having received the application. Mpika meets most of the benchmarks and requirements for a municipality. If a formal application is made, would the Government be in a position to immediately act and elevate Mpika to a municipality?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, this Minister here has not been privy to the file that contains that application that one of my predecessors, Hon. Vincent Mwale, received in 2019 when the hon. Member of Parliament’s party was the one running the affairs of this country. So, I will assume that Hon. Mwale may have gone with this application to his house when our colleagues left office …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … and, now, that my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika, has information about the application, I make an open invitation to him to bring that application to my office so that it is given due consideration.

Mr Speaker, for the information of the hon. Member of Parliament, in order to qualify for a status of an upgrade from town council to being a municipality, certain conditionalities and guidelines must be met. The following are the guidelines that must be met when one is applying to change the status from a town council to a municipality:

1. the application must be made to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development in writing for the conferment of a higher status;

1. the Minister must appoint an assessment committee to go and see the capacity of the said council; and

1. the Minister will receive this assessment report of findings and recommendations. The Minister will then study the assessment report to determine whether or not the said jurisdiction qualifies to be conferred a status higher than it currently has.

Mr Speaker, there are eleven other functional criteria that help the councils. So, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika can go and check whether his council qualifies for an upgrade. His assessment should include, but not limited to the following things:

1. the urban population is above 30,000 people. This refers to the density of the population;

1. the area of jurisdiction must have security, rural health services, basic education, local government, community development and social services, agriculture and natural resources, legal services, office accommodation, residential accommodation, road network, information services, administration and finance development, planning, police services, tarred roads, water and sewerage treatment facilities, general hospitals, secondary schools, levels of financial services, communication network, parks and gardens, defined residential areas, hotels and lodges, public library, street names and traffic lights. Further, there must be an adequate number of ratable properties within that jurisdiction and established functional Government departments as well as a cosmopolitan population; and

1. a diversified growing economic profile for that district; a growing percentage of locally generated revenues; efficient and a sustainable solid waste management system; established fire emergency services, higher level of judicial services, including courts; key social amenities, such as markets, bus stations, public toilets and ablution facilities and availability of an integrated development plan, availability of council strategic plan as well as its service charter.

Mr Speaker, probably, Hon. Mwale, the former Minister of Local Government, might have not responded, or if he did respond, responded verbally because we must check now if Mpika meets the criteria that I have listed in my response and then the hon. Member can come back to our office and, as per our tradition, –

Hon. Member for Mpika, look at me, please.

Mr Kapyanga looked at Mr Nkombo.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mpika will then be welcome to come and sit with me, like I always receive him at my office, to see whether our people in Mpika qualify to upgrade the status of that area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF CHEMBE DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION OFFICES

120. Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when the construction of the District Administration Offices in Chembe District will be completed;

1. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is;

1. at what level, in percentage terms, the project was as of June 2023; and

1. what the cost of the outstanding works on the project was.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Speaker, the construction of the District Administration Office Block in Chembe will be completed by 30^th December, 2023, in line with the revised contract.

Mr Speaker, the delay in completing the project was due to financial constraints. However, all the interim payment certificates (IPCs) have been paid and the contractor is expected to expedite the works.

Mr Speaker, as of June 2023, the level of completion, in percentage terms, was at 91 per cent, and the cost of the outstanding works is K807,942.95.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, the last time I visited the site, there was no contractor on site and the project was at 85 per cent. However, due to the vandalism that has occurred on the project, I do not think it is at 91 per cent. My question is: What assurance is the hon. Minister giving the people of Chembe and the civil servants at on the completion of the project. Will it be finished in December as he has put it?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is very serious. Those we work with in the ministry understand exactly what it is we want to do for the country. No civil servant in the ministry would give false information. So, when we say, 30^th December, 2023, everybody understands that it has to be a deadline that can be met.

Mr Speaker, the contract for the construction of the District Administration Block and associated external works was previously given to Belview Mining Equipment and Services Limited in December 2014. The contractor then moved on site in December 2014 with an initial completion period of twenty weeks. Since then, the completion period has, however, been extended several times. The last extension is up to 30^th December, 2023.

Mr Speaker, the price was revised to K5 million. Remember, I said the other one was K4 million. Since then, K4,234,515 has been certified and paid out. The guarantee we give is that unless a disaster happens, the 31^st December deadline will be met.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, when is the contractor going to be on site?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, a few days ago, I dealt with a question asked about Mkushi, and a date for completion was given. However, we have shifted to the issue of when the contractor will be on site or if he already is. What we do when we answer questions like this is look at what is necessary to reach the targeted completion date. If we go into a debate about the contractor being on site or not –I do not know the last time the hon. Member was on site himself, …

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: … because I know that Chembe is a big constituency. So, we can have that debate but, I think, it is not necessary. Let us concentrate on the completion of the project. If the hon. Member checks and finds that that might not be attained, he should feel free to talk to me so that we can do what is necessary to accelerate the works in order to meet the completion deadline.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

REVIVAL OF GWEMBE COTTON GINNERY

121. Mr. Simuzingili (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to revive the Gwembe Cotton Ginnery in Gwembe District, which is currently being used as a mere cotton storage facility;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the Government has no plans to revive the Gwembe Cotton Ginnery. The House may wish to note that existing structures at the former ginnery are privately owned by a company called Louise Dreyfus Company (LDC).

Mr Speaker, the ginnery cannot be revived because ownership of the structure was transferred into private hands.

Mr Speaker, the Government can only engage LDC to explore ways of reviving the ginnery once that has proven to be a viable venture. The Government understands that the ginnery is important for cotton farmers in Gwembe District and surrounding areas, as they need a ready market for their cotton.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuzingili: Mr Speaker, that infrastructure was built at a very high cost. So, for it to be dilapidated in the manner that it has and turn into a white elephant is not good. Further, the Mulungushi Textiles Limited is coming up. Does the hon. Minister not think the ginnery would be a very good infrastructure to invest in, seeing as the best cotton is produced in Gwembe? Is it not possible to get an equity partner so that jobs are not lost the way they have been lost in Gwembe? At the moment, that facility is just being used for storage.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I think, this is a very important engagement. I would encourage the hon. Member to write a letter to the ministry so that I can use it to engage LDC and see if we can get into some form of arrangement with other stakeholders on board. We will be very happy to do that.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube indicated to ask a supplementary question.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, you may proceed.

Hon. UPND Member: Abo, ah!

Mr Fube: I forgive you.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, to ask a question.

Sir, the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), among other things, talks about crop diversification, and Gwembe is one of the areas that produces cotton. I am talking about Gwembe because I know the area very well, better than some of the people who are saying, “Ah!”

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, when I look at the ginnery and the readiness of the farmers to produce cotton in that area, I am tempted to ask if it is not doing the people of Gwembe a disservice allowing it to be in private hands as opposed to the Government intervening, in line with the 8NDP?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the current Government has taken cotton production seriously. We have re-subscribed to all the international institutions we had lost out on, and we have put a board in place that is serious about looking into cotton production issues. However, as for the building, it is in private hands. So, we can only attempt to stimulate. It was sold off to a private investor. So, there is very little we can do. In terms of cotton production, we are going to stimulate the sector and take it where it once was.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Debate adjourned

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The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 25^th October, 2023.

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