Tuesday, 3^rd October, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have seen that there is a long list for matters of urgent public importance. Let us not waste time. We should follow the rules, as usual, and these are that the matters should not be peculiar to a small section of the country. If, without the Government’s intervention, a catastrophe will befall the nation or there will be a loss of life, a matter is urgent. Be reminded that an outbreak of a disease in a constituency, though urgent, is not a matter of public importance because that is not debatable and not widespread. For that one, you can use Standing Order No. 76. A matter is urgent if it is of recent occurrence, does not relate to the general state of affairs, only deals with one substantive issue and is not before the courts of law. With that guidance in mind, let us not waste time.

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON THE LACK OF POLICE VEHICLES IN NAKONDE

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, the matter I wish to raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, in Nakonde, we have continued to lose lives because of the criminality that is taking place there. Our hardworking people, the men in uniform, do not have a police vehicle to patrol. Today, we buried a lady aged twenty who was shot dead in her house.

Madam Speaker, I want to know why the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has not given the police vehicles for patrols.

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member.

Much as that issue is very important, it is specific to Nakonde. I gave you the criteria for matters of urgent public importance. Further, you are not supposed to wait for a ministerial statement; you are supposed to visit the office of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. However, I read somewhere that the Government will provide ambulances and police vehicles for all constituencies. So, please, do not wait for a ministerial statement. Do something as soon as possible or be proactive because that happened in your constituency.

MR KANG’OMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR KAMFINSA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, MR MPOSHA, ON THE LACK OF WATER SUPPLY IN KAMFINSA

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa Constituency, allow me to direct a matter of urgent public importance to my colleague, the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam Speaker, in line with Standing Order No. 134, I took the liberty to engage my colleague in charge of the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation on the challenge of water that the people of Kamfinsa Constituency are facing. During that interaction, proactively, I expected that, by now, the thirty minutes water supply that the residents currently rarely receive would have improved. Unfortunately, due to the lack of water supply to the areas affected, the residents have been reporting to various clinics in the constituency that there is poor sanitation in the constituency resulting in water-borne diseases.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister responsible for water in order to not resolve this challenge despite the area Member of Parliament reporting it consistently in the last two years every time Parliament opened?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You have clearly stated that you brought this matter to this Floor, and you were guided. I am sure, even a ministerial statement was issued at some point. It would have been better for you to bring that matter in another form. However, I remember very well that we dealt with it over and over again. So, can you find another avenue of raising the matter.

DR MWANZA, HON. MEMBER FOR KAUMBWE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE, MR LUFUMA, ON PRESENCE OF MOZAMBIQUE DEFENCE FORCES PERSONNEL ON THE INFORMAL BORDER OF MOZAMBIQUE AND ZAMBIA IN KAUMBWE CONSTITUENCY

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Defence.

Madam Speaker, Kaumbwe Constituency shares an informal border with Mozambique, which is a stretch of almost 100 km. Right now, there is heavy presence of defence forces from Mozambique manning the border. The issue, of course, borders on security and we are concerned. We have no information as to why there is heavy presence of defence forces with artillery from Mozambique at the border. Those soldiers do not speak English –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Without wasting much of your time, that matter is peculiar to a small section of your community. I urge you –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I am making a ruling.

The hon. Member is advised to come up with a question of urgent nature rather than wait for a ministerial statement, as that issue is peculiar to his area.

MR KAFWAYA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNTE, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE ACTING AUDITOR-GENERAL BEING OVER THE AGE OF SERVICE

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to rise on this very important constitutional matter of urgent public importance. In doing so, I would like to quote Article 2(b) of the Republican Constitution as follows:

“Every person has the right and duty to –

(b)     resist or prevent a person from overthrowing, suspending or illegally abrogating this Constitution.”

Madam Speaker, Article 252 provides as follows:

“(1)   Subject to this Article, the Auditor-General shall retire from office on attaining the age of sixty years.”

Madam Speaker, yesterday, the Auditor-General’s report was tabled for hon. Members of Parliament to consider. This –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your matter, hon. Member?

Mr Kafwaya: That is what I am getting to now.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are now debating the matter. Please, can you summarise it.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I am summarising the matter.

Madam Speaker, the report was signed by Dr Ron M. Mwambwa, the Acting Auditor-General. However, Dr Ron M. Mwambwa is now sixty-four years and should have left office four years ago.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is that the report is the basis of the work of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), which is under your office. Dr Ron Mwambwa is illegally in office …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: … making this –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What is the matter of urgent public importance?

Mr Kafwaya: The matter is this, Madam Speaker: What is your Assembly going to do for PAC …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Kafwaya: … to do work during this Session, since what we have before us is an illegal Auditor-General’s Report? I direct this matter to Her Honour the Vice-President as the Leader of Government Business in the House.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member.

From the criteria that I explained, or the ways of raising matters of urgent public importance, this might be very important, but it does not qualify to be a matter of urgent public importance. What you can do, hon. Member, is file in a question. If, in your view, the matter is very important, you can ask a question under Standing Order No. 76 so that it is attended to. You will even be able to ask follow-up questions.

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, DR MUSOKOTWANE, ON THE COST OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, before I raise my matter of urgent public importance, I want to convey my heartfelt condolences to Agnes Tumbe’s family. Agnes Tumbe died a few hours ago. She was killed by an elephant in Chama in Mulumbu Village.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. There are no indications, so far, that the price of crude oil is going to go down on the international market because Russia and Saudi Arabia have extended the cut in production. This means that the cost of petroleum products has continued to escalate on the international market.

Madam Speaker, we are alive to the fact that the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) has been announcing monthly upward adjustments –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

In view of where that matter is heading to, it is obviously not a matter of urgent public importance according to the laid-down criteria. Can you, please, find other avenues of bringing it up in the House.

MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER FOR PAMBASHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON PEOPLE TAKING THE LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, before I raise the matter, I need your guidance on whether we will follow the criteria stated in the Standing Orders or the guidelines you read. This House is regulated by the Standing Orders, and according to the Standing Orders, there are steps to follow for a matter to be admitted.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Just go straight to your matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the matter I am raising is directed to the hon. Minister in charge of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, Zambians woke up to a very rude shock of two people in Mwembezhi Constituency having been burnt to ashes. The same thing had happened in Mumbwa. Tomorrow, we do not know where it may happen.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister responsible for my security internally in order to remain quiet when citizens of this country are taking the law into their own hands by burning and killing suspects, who may be innocent citizens? Mwembezhi constituents are mourning, as two people were killed by being burnt to ashes.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, would you like to address that issue at a later day or now?

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, you may recall that two weeks ago, you gave me permission to issue a statement on the Floor of this House pertaining to a similar incident, and I informed members of the public that they should not take the law into their own hands.

Madam Speaker, because of our not condoning illegality, a number of people in Mumbwa were arrested and jailed for taking the law into their own hands. In a similar vein, we condemn the action of the people in Shibuyunji. We do not condone anyone taking the law in their own hands, as it is not unusual to find that people have found themselves being innocent victims in such situations. So, I call upon members of the public to report the matter to the police if they suspect that criminality has occurred. We are investigating the matter and will inform the nation in due course what transpired yesterday in Shibuyunji.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am sure, it is loud and clear that the hon. Minister will inform the nation in due course.

I will take the last two from the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi and the hon. Member for Mkaika.

MR MUTINTA, HON. MEMBER FOR ITEZHI-TEZHI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF EDUCATION, MR SYAKALIMA, ON THE FIRE THAT BROKE OUT AT RUSANGU SECONDARY SCHOOL

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Education.

Madam Speaker, at the weekend, two boarding spaces for boys at Rusangu Secondary School caught fire and about sixty-seven children lost all their property. Rusangu Secondary School has a population of over 2,000 learners –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I have not given the ruling.

Hon. Member on the Floor, what is your matter of urgent public importance? Can you summarise it.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, Rusangu Secondary School has a population of over 2,000 children from the entire country. Some children lost their property and the two boarding spaces are not habitable at the moment. The parents …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the matter, hon. Member?

Mr Mutinta: … are asking whether those children are going to be compensated. Further, how are we going to avert similar accidents in schools?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member.

As far as I am concerned, that matter was attended to by the hon. Minister of Education and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, who is the owner of the constituency where the incident took place. The main reason we raise matters in the House is that we want the Government to do something. In this case, something was done by the hon. Minister of Education and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. So, that matter does not qualify.

MR PHIRI, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MKAIKA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF COMMERCE, TRADE AND INDUSTRY, MR MULENGA, ON SECURITY AT THE FOOD PROCESSING PLANT IN KATETE

Mr Phiri (Mkaika): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed to the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Madam Speaker, the food processing plant that was being constructed in Katete is complete and we are just waiting for the Government to commission it. However, the company that was providing security services at the plant withdrew its services. The plant was constructed using public funds and, if the situation is left unattended to, it will be vandalised before it is commissioned.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is: Why have the security services been withdrawn before the plant is commissioned?

I seek the Government’s intervention on this matter.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that matter does not qualify to be a matter of urgent public importance. However, since it is important, you can find another avenue for bringing it up in the House and you can ask many follow-up questions.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

TRANSFER OF TEACHERS FROM MULOBEZI SCHOOLS

58. Eng. Mabenga (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Education:

1. whether the Government is aware that the seventy-one teachers who were transferred from fifty-eight schools in Mulobezi District to other districts have not been replaced, leading to a shortage of teachers in the affected schools and, thereby, negatively affecting the learners;

1. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to replace the teachers at (a);

1. whether the Government is aware that the transferred teachers at (a) are still on the payroll of their former schools in Mulobezi District; and

1. if so, when the teachers will be removed from the payroll under Mulobezi District.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government is aware that seventy-one teachers were transferred from fifty-eight schools in Mulobezi to other districts as far back as 2016. In addition, the Government is aware that thirty-two teachers who had been working in Mulobezi District were on payrolls of other districts. The House may note that the transfers were occasioned by several factors, such as the need to unite families and medical grounds.

Madam Speaker, in 2022, the Government commenced the process of resolving the payroll mismatch across the country to ensure that every school has sufficient teachers to offer quality education and was aligned with the establishment. In this regard, during the 2022 teacher recruitment exercise, the ministry deployed 223 teachers to Mulobezi District to address the shortage occasioned by the transfer of seventy-one teachers to other districts as well as to improve the quality of education. Additionally, during the 2023 teacher recruitment exercise, Mulobezi District will receive more teachers to improve the teacher-pupil ratio.

Madam Speaker, the ministry is aware that the seventy-one teachers transferred from Mulobezi District are still on the payroll of their former schools and vice-versa.

Madam Speaker, the Government has already begun the process of realigning payroll stations for teachers who are working in districts other than their payroll stations. It is expected that, specifically for Mulobezi District, the matter will be resolved before the end of 2023.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Eng. Mabenga: Madam Speaker, when are the transfers going to stop? I ask because, last week, we were talking about the transfer of seventy-one teachers. However, according to the document I have, seventy-eight teachers in Mulobezi are missing. When is the Government going to stop transferring teachers without replacements?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, you will recall that those issues started in 2016. The hon. Member is talking about the transfer of seventy-one teachers, but one would argue that the 223 teachers deployed to the district have covered for the transferred teachers. As I said, sometimes, transfers are occasioned by medical problems and reuniting couples. However, the hon. Member of Parliament may recall that the transfer of the seventy-one teachers did not occur last week. That issue has been there for over six years.

Madam Speaker, to address the problem, it takes a lot of time. As I said, thirty-two teachers in Mulobezi are still on other payrolls, and we are addressing that problem. We cannot stop transfers just like that, but we are encouraging teachers who have applied in rural areas to stay there. The condition is that teachers are supposed to stay in an area for four years unless one has to move from one place to another on medical grounds or has to join a spouse. So, we will not entirely stop transfers. Sometimes, people get used to one place and do not even work. So, transfers will occur. However, what was wrong were the wanton transfers without realigning the teachers to new payrolls.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Eng. Mabenga: Madam Speaker, what is the policy on transfer of teachers?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I have just explained. Do I need to repeat?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, just repeat.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I thought we did not allow tedious repetition. What I said was that teachers can be transferred, firstly, on medical grounds and, secondly, when they have to join their spouses.

Madam Speaker, a teacher who stays at one station for a long time can be transferred because familiarity breeds contempt. We have seen such things happen. The teacher who was preparing chimpapila, I think, had stayed in that place for a long time and became over familiar to it. That is why there is a need for transfers. My clarion call to the teachers is that when they apply in Mulobezi, Shangombo or Mitete, they should work in those areas. The condition is that a teacher should work in a certain area for, at least, four years. So, a teacher can only be transferred on medical grounds, when he/she has to join a spouse or for the other reason I mentioned.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, we appreciate the answers that the hon. Minister has given us. However, that issue is not peculiar to Mulobezi. I think, it is endemic to many other constituencies, especially the rural ones. Teachers are transferred to urban areas leaving gaps in rural areas, but they still get rural hardship allowances. At the same time, the district is disadvantaged when it is time for recruitment because the records show that the teachers are still in that district. As if that was not enough –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, my question is: Is it possible for the ministry to carry out a comprehensive investigation so that the policy of a teacher staying in one area for, at least, four years is not abrogated? Fifteen teachers who were deployed to Gwembe have gone elsewhere, yet the policy says that they must be there for four years. Why are we allowing some civil servants to abrogate our policies with impunity?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, at the expense of repeating myself, I will say that the problem is big. It started in 2016 and is widespread in the country. When a person is transferred, he/she does not maintain the Payment Management and Establishment Control Identity (PMEC ID). So, a person who is transferred to Mazabuka from Gwembe does not maintain the PMEC ID he/she had in Gwembe. I think, that way, we will manage to resolve the problem.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for stating the reasons for the transfers, and I agree with those reasons. My question is: Why is it difficult to employ local qualified teachers in rural areas? The people in town can move from Lusaka to Kafue, but it is difficult for someone to move from Lusaka to Mulobezi. Why can the ministry not employ the local qualified teachers unlike employing teachers from urban areas, so that we minimise the problem?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, it is desirable to employ the local people, but how do you define local? If in Nyimba, there are many vacancies and the local teachers are four, what do we do? Should we just employ the four? The hon. Member says we should employ the local people but, when there are vacancies, the local people may not be sufficient to fill those vacancies. So, we advertise and anybody can apply anywhere. However, it is desirable to employ people within the vicinity of the school. Otherwise, everybody will be saying that they want to be employed in a certain area and we will defeat the purpose of ‘One Zambia, One Nation’. I think, over the years, we were tuned to doing wrong things, and that is why there is chaos. We are now trying to manage the chaos. So, that is what we are doing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will allow the hon. Member for Mwandi and the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, in that order.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister indicated that there are thirty-two teachers in Mulobezi who are still getting salaries from other districts.

Madam Speaker, there is a challenge in my constituency, whereby some schools have been operating for a long time without a full establishment. In regard to that school, is that one of the challenges causing teachers to be getting salaries from another district? If that is the case, what is the ministry doing to make sure that schools that have been operating for a long time without full establishments are fully established?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I agree with her.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu) Madam Speaker, it seems, that problem emanates from the point of recruitment. The question asked by the hon. Member for Mwandi is critical, although the hon. Minister just said that he agrees with her. How –

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, having a full establishment is what gives authority to the pay points that teachers use. Some teachers go to other schools, yet their pay points are still the schools they abandoned in rural areas and, therefore, it becomes difficult to send teachers to those schools. So, the question the hon. Member asked is: What is the ministry doing to ensure that the position becomes vacant immediately someone moves? I think, that was the gist of the question.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, that is why I agreed with the hon. Member for Mwandi. First of all, she explained what we should do, and I agreed. She said that those schools should be fully established. Maybe, the hon. Member wants me to repeat what I said. Agreeing is agreeing, is it not?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, for the sake of the listeners, explain what you agreed to so that the people follow you.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the Government will commence the process of realigning the payroll points and will also fully establish schools that do not have full establishments. As I said, the chaos started a long time ago, and I am trying to manage that chaos, a humongous one for that matter.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MKUSHI/MUSOFU/MUNDAWANGA ROAD PROJECT

59. Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)     whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Mkushi/Musofu/Mundawanga Road in Mkushi District to bituminous standard;

(b)     if so, what mode of financing will be used for the project;

(c)     when the project will be implemented; and

(d)     if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government will consider upgrading to bituminous standard the Mkushi/Musofu/Mundawanga Road in Mkushi District once the Treasury secures the required funds.

Madam Speaker, any favourable mode of financing the project will be considered in future work plans.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi North, do you have a follow-up question?

Mr C. Chibuye: Yes, Madam Speaker, I have a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, we appreciate the hon. Minister’s response, which is that the ministry will consider upgrading the road when Treasury authority is granted. When does he think the ministry will be granted Treasury authority for it to upgrade the road?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me, first of all, explain to the House that the road in question was recently rehabilitated to all-weather gravel standard with the support of the World Bank under the Improved Rural Connectivity Project (IRCP). As is the case with all other projects, the project is currently in the maintenance stage until October, 2024. We normally give a three-year maintenance programme.

Madam Speaker, the stretch of the road is approximately 92.5 km, and it serves as a shorter route connecting Mkushi District in Central Province to the Copperbelt Province at Tug Argan Barracks. The contractor engaged for the road works is Sinohydro Zambia Limited and the contract sum is K144,307,981.66. So far, the contractor has been paid K99,400,000 for the works done.

Madam Speaker, the reason I have given the details above is to show that whereas there is a need, ultimately, to upgrade the road to bituminous standard, in terms of the quality of work that we are able to achieve on improved rural connectivity, it is a clear indication that at the moment, the population in and around those areas are able to use it. The works that I have inspected under the IRCP indicate that people can achieve a speed of 100 km/h. In view of the three-year maintenance programme, the road will be maintained in a very good state.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s follow-up question was: When are funds going to be made available? That will be dependent upon allocations in the Budget and the subsequent budgets. Suffice it for me to say that the rehabilitation works under the IRCP are sufficient for our populations to use the road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, the explanation that the hon. Minister has given, that the road has been worked on through the Improved Rural Connectivity Project (IRCP) is, indeed, true. It is from this background that we have seen the increase in traffic on that road and even the people coming from Tanzania are using it as a shorter route to the Copperbelt Province. My question, therefore, is: Does the hon. Minister not see the road not having a long life span in the gravel state, given the increased traffic on it? The consideration of upgrading it to bituminous standard would actually give it long life.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague for the question.

Madam Speaker, yes, ultimately, all things being equal, it is preferable to have bituminous-standard roads, especially when they are busy. However, it is a question of resource availability. What I can assure the hon. Member for Mkushi North is that we have incorporated into the IRCP a three-year maintenance period. During that period, a road is maintained at a very high quality, as it was originally rehabilitated. The contractor will continue maintaining that road until October 2024. Thereafter, the maintenance will be taken over by the Road Development Agency (RDA). However, should traffic continue to increase and the deterioration of the road qualifies it for upgrade, that will be considered in future work plans.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I have been listening with a lot of interest to the responses and, in one of the responses, the hon. Minister said that when funds are available in one of the Budgets, the ministry will consider upgrading the road to bituminous standard. So, I want to know from the hon. Minister whether in the 2024 Budget, there is an allocation for upgrading roads to bituminous standard, as that might give hope to the people of Mkushi North and, indeed, the people of Shantumbu in Kafue?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kafue for this question.

Madam Speaker, I think, we have just started the Budget Meeting. So, we cannot really, from the Government’s point of view, make conclusive pronouncements on the Budget whilst it is before this House. The Separation of powers demands that we allow this House to deliberate. When the Budget is passed, we can make conclusive remarks as to what is in there or not. What the hon. Minister announced before the House and is contained in the Yellow Book that we all have is but a proposal from the Executive to the Legislature.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

INTRODUCTION OF AN EQUITABLE ALLOCATION OF THE CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

60. Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to introduce an equitable allocation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to each constituency;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, indeed, the Government has plans to introduce an equitable allocation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in each constituency. However, it will require extensive stakeholder consultation and development of a formula for this type of allocation to satisfy the hon. Member’s desire, which is the equitable distribution of the resources.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented when all consultative processes that I have just alluded to are undertaken.

Madam Speaker, plans to review the allocation of the CDF are, indeed, there.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response.

Madam Speaker, it is saddening to note that the date by which that will be actualised has not been mentioned. It might be next year or the other year. However, equity means fairness. You may wish to note that the largest population in Zambia is in Kanyama. Considering the way grants or loans are distributed, it might take three or four years for all the people in Kanyama to receive them, which might not be fair. We want a situation in which people are treated equally. The distribution of whatever resources should be equal and –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the question, hon. Member?

Mr Chinkuli: I am trying to build the question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Avoid debating the question.

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, we are talking about not leaving anyone behind, but are we not going against that concept?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, that idea has been entertained before in this Parliament, and for a very long time. The idea addresses the issues that I mentioned, and I said that we must find a formula with which we can do what is deemed to be equitable.

Madam Speaker, in his follow-up question, my colleague brings in the issue of equality. Equity and equality are fundamentally different. Equity is generally associated with shareholding in a company or the fair distribution of resources, whereas equality means something totally different. In my answer, I said that we require extensive consultative engagement with all stakeholders in order to arrive at an equitable method of distributing wealth under the CDF.

Madam Speaker, the time we attempted to do this, I was in this Parliament and I recall that we were confronted with the issue of who is ahead and who is behind in development. Some people argued that rural areas were behind while urban areas were ahead simply because urban areas have concrete jungles. Others argued that in urban areas, there were high levels of squalor and the quality of life of people is far much below the quality of life of people who live in rural areas. Just that argument alone sort of jammed us. We could not move any further because the truth of the matter is that it is debatable whether people who live in town live a better life than those who live in rural areas. To address that, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, in his wisdom, decided that through the decentralisation agenda, he was going to cascade money from the Central Government to the districts and sub-district levels in order for people to identify their development trajectory. Can you imagine that the CDF was K1.6 million, but it is now K30.6 million per annum per constituency. I think, it is reason enough for us to be settled that wealth is being distributed in a manner that is close to being equitable.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, during the 2023 Budget Address to this House, mentioned that 75 per cent of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been released. His next sentence, if I remember well, was that the 2024 Budget would be based on an equitable formula, whereby rural areas and urban areas would be separated. I think, that statement is in the verbatim record. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development has not stipulated when that will be done, yet the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was specific. Could it be that the hon. Minister was playing to the gallery when he said that in the Budget Speech?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, let us not mix the two because we are going to debate the Budget Speech that was delivered by the hon. Minister. At this moment, we are considering supplementary questions to the question on Kanyama Constituency, and the questions should be linked to that so that we do not go off topic.

May the hon. Minister attempt to answer the question.

Mr Nkombo: I am equal to the task.

Madam Speaker, the word ‘equity’ denotes fairness of distribution. So, when the hon. Minister said that we will try as much as possible to have equitable distribution of wealth, that is what it means. It is one and the same thing.

Madam Speaker, in my main answer, I was very clear in stating that we are looking for a formula or ways and means of arriving at what we all desire. We are looking at all indices and variables to determine whether our definition suggests that Lusaka is more developed than Magoye, where I come from, simply because there is this Parliament in Lusaka. It does not necessarily mean that when you are in a rural area, you are underdeveloped, no. Go to my farm. I live in a rural area, where I wake up from. Go there and see that, sometimes, it is not worth living in town.

Mr Fube: You are a baroque.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I am just trying to help the hon. Member of Parliament. Hon. Chilangwa and I live in a rural area. We are neighbours. We deliberately moved from the squalor of town in Chilanga. Therefore, when the word ‘equity’ is used, we should not confuse it with the dichotomy of which area is more developed than the other.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last two questions will be from the hon. Member for Chama North and the hon. Member for Lukashya, in that order.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response.

Madam Speaker, it is good that the Government plans to distribute the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) fairly. I am alive to the fact that in terms of skills and empowerment programmes, urban constituencies need more money than rural ones. On the other hand, rural constituencies need more money for infrastructure than urban ones. So, which specific areas is the hon. Minister is looking at?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, this conversation is encouraged to continue. Let us take Chama, for instance, where the colleague who asked me the question comes from, and Mazabuka, where I come from. The people in those areas are all Zambians and require the same levels of development. That is the reason the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hichilema, decided to inflate the CDF and let it be administered by you. I am sure, hon. Members saw the circular that was issued last night after the expunction of the earlier one on the commissioning of projects. Hon. Members and constituents will be deciding what they deem to be priorities in their areas, and what works for them. I think, the President did us a favour because if we look at the near past, we were sharing nothing.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Can you imagine, hon. Member and friend, Mr Mtayachalo, how Zambia would look like today had the K30.6 million been distributed in the last five years? So, there is honour in appreciating what the Government is doing to serve its people’s interests and realise their aspirations. I think, we are on the right path, whether you like it or not.

Madam Speaker, it was in this august House that Dr Musokotwane, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, announced the first increase in the CDF. However, some people in this House said that councils had no capacity to administer that fund and did not want the money.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Nkombo: The question you should ask yourself is: If you are in that same state of mind, will you then stand on your campaign platform and say that you do not want the CDF to be K30.6 million and that it should go back to being K1.6 million? Someone will think something is cockeyed around your thinking.

Hon. Member: Meaning!

Mr Nkombo: Cockeyed is an English word. Check it in the dictionary.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, my question is related to the last statement made by the hon. Minister. The utilisation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is supposed to go hand-in-hand with capacity. What is the Government doing to improve the capacity of local authorities to administer the increased CDF?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, let me confirm here that such type of questions are the ones that we need in this House.

Mr Nkandu: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: Progressive questions.

Madam Speaker, I will give an example of how we have been desirous of capacitating councils. We deliberately decided to strengthen our audit systems, and examples are there for the hon. Member for Lukashya to see. For example, we decided to audit Solwezi Municipal Council, …

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: … a council predominately represented by the Ruling Party, because we saw that there were challenges in the operations of the CDF. I want you to understand –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

There is an indication for a point of order.

A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Chilubi.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, my point of order is in line with Standing Order No. 206.

Madam Speaker, I am trying to figure out which security company the suit the hon. Minister who is on the Floor is wearing is for.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the description under Standing Order No. 206 does not fit what the hon. Minister is wearing. I do not know if the hon. Minister is in order to be dressed like that.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, are you talking about the colour? The official dress for male hon. Members of Parliament is a formal executive suit, a pair of long trousers, a shirt, a neck tie and jacket; a toga; a decent traditional attire; a safari suit, with long and short sleeves and a scarf or a neck tie.

So, hon. Members, as far as I am concerned, what the hon. Minister is wearing matches with the criteria in the Standing Orders, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … unless if I am not seeing properly.

Let us make progress.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, at least, a colleague has managed to put a smile on everyone’s face. I can confirm that what I am wearing is a cotton attire and I have seen some hon. Members on your left hand side wearing metal attires.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: That is very common, but let us take that as a light moment.

Madam Speaker, I was in the process of explaining the fact that we set out to audit all local authorities. We began with Solwezi Municipal Council and will move to other councils. Let me take advantage of this opportunity and say one of the challenges that we have had, in terms of capacity, has been that of interference by political officer holders in the disbursement and application of the CDF. I have had visits from the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) over reports by whistle-blowers about some hon. Members of Parliament and elected officials being beneficiaries of contracts for CDF projects.

Madam Speaker, allow me to send the message to hon. Members of Parliament that it is their duty to make sure that councils operate above board. It will not do for an hon. Member of Parliament to arm-twist the officers in his/her council to award his/her kinsmen contracts and take advantage of the fund because the fund is meant for specific purposes. So, as the audit continues, I can assure the hon. Member for Lukashya that the capacity that he seems to agree exists in the Central Government will start showing in local governments. We are trying to get professional people to work in designated offices. Without saying too much, I can also confirm, in no uncertain terms, that we found many incompetent people in councils who were employed based on patronage, creed –

Mr Chisanga: Question!

Mr Nkombo: You can question that.

Madam Speaker, we have given most of those people the chance to upgrade their academic qualifications while some are outrightly headed for the exit door. We have removed those who are not competent, and we are trying our best to make sure that the people holding office, especially in procurement, are the right ones. We have had a problem, and I have not been shy to say that I am certain that there is corruption in councils. I have said that on the Floor of this House, and I am not afraid to say that. I am the one who presides over councils, and I know that we found endemic and glaring corruption in them. We have given our colleagues a chance to reform but, soon, the ACC is going to pounce on them and no one is going to redeem them. So, we are on our way to capacitating our councils.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES

61. Mr Chonde (Milenge) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct bridges at the following crossing points on the Chiswishi River in Milenge Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Chabuka Baushi;

1. Mulumbi; and

1. Mulungushi;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented;

1. what the estimated cost of each project is; and

1. what the timeframe for the completion of each project is.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct bridges at Chabuka Baushi, Mulumbi and Mulungushi crossing points across Chiswishi River in Milenge Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented once the Treasury secures the funds required for the project.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of constructing Chabuka Baushi Bridge is K1,232,419.80 while the estimated cost of constructing Mulungushi Bridge is K7 million. The estimated cost of constructing Mulumbi Crossing Point will only be known after an assessment is done in the fourth quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the execution of Chabuka Baushi and Mulungushi crossing points is estimated to be six months from the time of commencement.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon Minister for the response. Clearly, the hon. Minister needs to visit the areas because the information is not accurate. Chabuka Baushi Bridge is huge, and I do not think that K1 million is sufficient.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the lengthy process we have to undergo in order for the crossing points to be constructed. Knowing that the rainy season is around the corner, does the ministry have immediate measures for working on the crossing points?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I ask the hon. Member for Milenge to engage with the Road Development Agency (RDA) and the ministry a lot more closely because he said that the estimate given for the cost of constructing Chabuka Baushi Bridge is not accurate. Such matters can easily be resolved by closer attention and engagement. However, Chabuka Baushi Crossing Point was included in the programme for critical drainage structures under the RDA and will be constructed as soon as funds are secured. In view of the point that he raised, I ask that he contacts the RDA and the ministry to ensure that the estimate is accurate.

Madam Speaker, with respect to Mulumbi Crossing Point, which was part of the Acrow Bridge Construction Programme and was contracted at K25,073,060, the contract was terminated due to a lack of funds. Mulumbi Bridge will be constructed using money from force account, and an assessment for the required works will be undertaken in the fourth quarter of 2023. Since that is an Acrow Bridge, in some constituencies like Kanchibiya and Zambezi West, we have worked together with the hon. Members and used part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to construct bridges. So, maybe, I can engage the hon. Member to see if we can share the costs and have the bridge installed at a faster rate.

Madam Speaker, an assessment was conducted on Mulungushi Crossing Point, but the works could not take off, as the amount advanced was too small to fund any meaningful works on the bridge. The costs for Chabuka Baushi and Mulungushi bridges are subject to revision in view of the passage of time, since the surveys were conducted in 2019.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, clearly, the hon. Minister’s answer has raised quite a lot of –

Let me avoid a protracted discussion on the matter. The issue under discussion are the intervention measures because there is perpetual disruption of social services in the affected areas. Does the ministry have any immediate measures that we can rely on, knowing that the rainy season is around the corner?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is almost the same question.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I can assure the hon. Member for Milenge that it is not the desire of the New Dawn Government to see people inconvenienced. That is why I have stated on the Floor of this House that any hon. Member who is aware of sites that will cause certain sections of our populations to be cut off must report so that urgent works can be done. If the hon. Member is of the view that certain sections will be cut off, again, that can be looked at from that perspective. I also want to assure him that there are many places in this country that are affected as much as the site that he has brought to our attention.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Bahati.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, Chabuka Baushi Crossing Point is very important to us, the Ushi people. Our ancestors used that crossing point way back in 1706 when they were crossing from the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) into Zambia. Quite a number of Acrow Bridges are lying idly at the RDA offices. Is the hon. Minister able to give us one or two Acrow Bridges for Chabuka Baushi Crossing Point and other crossing points in Milenge?

Eng. Milupi: No, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: I could have just answered with a ‘No’ and sat down but, I think, the hon. Member for Bahati deserves a longer response.

Madam Speaker, the 131 Acrow Bridges are site-specific. In other words, certain sites were identified and measured, and those measurements were taken to the United States of America (USA) so that each site had a specific bridge manufactured for it. So, it is not possible to move the bridges that hon. Members see at the RDA offices, as they are for specific sites, and we cannot move them from one site to the other.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

DISTRIBUTION OF MOSQUITO NETS IN KALABO

62. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government distributed any mosquito nets in Kalabo District in 2022;

1. if so, how many nets were distributed;

(c)     how many nets are earmarked for distribution in 2023; and

(d)     what long-term measures are being taken to eradicate malaria.

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo)): Madam Speaker, the Government distributed insecticide treated mosquito nets in Kalabo District to under-five children and pregnant women through under-five and antenatal clinics, respectively.

Madam Speaker, 15,000 mosquito nets were distributed to under-five children and pregnant women, broken down as shown below:

1. 7,729 mosquito nets to pregnant women through antenatal clinics; and

1. 7,271 mosquito nets to under-five children through under-five clinics.

Madam Speaker, in 2023, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, and with support from partners, intends to distribute 81,742 mosquito nets to all the people in Kalabo District through the 2023 Mass Distribution Campaign. Additionally, 15,596 mosquito nets will be distributed through the routine channels of under-five and antenatal clinics.

Madam Speaker, the long-term measures that are being taken to eradicate malaria are as follows:

1. distribution of 11.5 million mosquito nets to all the people in Zambia, complimented by routine under-five and antenatal clinics and continuous school and community distribution;

1. indoor residual spraying of all eligible structures in the targeted districts. This year, we are targeting 900,000 structures;

1. larval source management that targets the aquatic stages of the mosquito;

1. prompt diagnosis and treatment of all people with malaria, which not only saves lives, but also helps to reduce transmission by clearing the parasites in our communities;

1. mass drug administration in the eligible catchment, where all the eligible people are given malaria medicine in order to clear the malaria parasites from their bodies; and

1. low malaria transmission settings: malaria case investigation in which any person who tests malaria positive is followed to where they come from, and responsive evictor control is conducted and treatment given to all asymptomatic people.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that all the above-mentioned interventions are coupled with social behavioural change messaging to increase uptake and use of the interventions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I just want to seek clarity. Will the mass distribution of mosquito nets include distribution to school-going children or students, especially those in boarding schools? Previously, only under-five children and pregnant women would receive mosquito nets.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I would like to answer in the affirmative. Yes, the mass distribution of 11.5 million mosquito nets is meant for the whole population, not excluding pupils and students, but with distribution points being clinics.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, it is being stated that in 2023, the usual residual spraying programme will not be done. I want to get it from the hon. Minister. Is it true that in 2023, there will not be the exercise of spraying residences?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, absolutely not. If anything, one of the major areas of attack of the malaria campaign is the mass spraying of structures, and I stated that the exercise will be done. The hon. Member for Kalabo Central can rest assured that in 2023, like any other year, the structures will be sprayed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, may I know the cost of mosquito nets the Government intends to send to Kalabo Constituency?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question. Unfortunately, I do not know the cost because that was not part of the question. If the hon. Member does not mind, I can tell him the cost later as we chat.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, in part (d) of the question, the hon. Member is asking the hon. Minister what long-term measures are being taken to eradicate malaria. The hon. Minister said that the ministry is procuring mosquito nets but, to me, the procurement of mosquito nets is a preventive measure, not something we can do to completely eradicate malaria. It is good that the hon. Minister also talked about indoor residual spraying, which is a good measure. However, is the Government considering aerial spraying? Aerial spraying is an effective, cheaper and efficient way of controlling mosquitoes from breeding sites, and there are many marshlands in Kalabo, just like in Luapula Province and Bahati Constituency. Aerial spraying is effective, especially if the ministry considered using drones. So, is the ministry considering using drones to carry out aerial spraying?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this very important question. I think, it is an option that the ministry will sit down and consider because of the advantages that the hon. Member has just outlined.

Mr Chibombwe interjected.

Mr Lufuma: Come again.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Lufuma: He is speaking to himself but, anyway, I am saying that is an option the ministry will consider, given the advantages that the hon. Member has just outlined.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament, we appreciate the efforts the Government is making to eradicate malaria, such as the distribution of mosquito nets. However, is the hon. Minister aware that the mosquito nets the Government distributes with a view to eradicating malaria are being used for other activities, such as catching fish? If he is aware, what steps are being taken to see to it that the mosquito nets are used for the intended purpose instead of being used in lakes and rivers like in Kalabo?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, that is a complex issue. I think, it needs concerted efforts, not excluding the efforts of hon. Members of Parliament and community leaders like chiefs, evangelists, etcetera. So, that issue needs concerted efforts from all of us who are responsible in the community. However, suffice it for me to say that when the Ministry of Health is distributing mosquito nets, it tries by all means to sensitise the recipients that the nets should not be used to catch small fish and fill our stomachs but, essentially, to prevent malaria. So, we do our part in terms of sensitisation but, I think, we should do more by incorporating community leaders and having sensitisation campaign workshops so that the message gets to every citizen who gets a mosquito net. We realise that whereas we are preventing malaria, we are also creating another problem of depleting our fish stocks. So, I implore the hon. Member for Kalabo Central and other hon. Members to take up the responsibility of sensitising the recipients of mosquito nets.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

KAFUMBWE/KALIMETA ROAD PROJECT

63. Ms Phiri (Milanzi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. why the rehabilitation of Kafumbwe/Kalimeta Road in Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;

1. when the project will resume; and

1. when the following feeder roads will be rehabilitated:

1. Kawaza/Chisindiko Road; and

1. Dole/Boma Road.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of Kafumbwe/Kalimeta Road in Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency stalled because the contract for the project expired and was not renewed due to budgetary constraints.

Madam Speaker, the road will be worked on once funds are available.

Madam Speaker, Kawaza/Chisindiko and Dole/Boma feeder roads will be rehabilitated when funds are available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response.

Madam Speaker, those are key roads that our people use for transportation of goods and services, but they are in a poor state. The people of Milanzi would like to know when funds are going to be made available for those roads to be worked on.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the people of Milanzi, who sent Hon. Melesiana Phiri to Parliament, are also our people, and we sympathise with the state of the roads in that parliamentary constituency. I would like to answer the question of when funds will be available by giving background information on the D125 Junction to Kalimeta School via Katiula to Kafumbwe Road in Katete District. The road that the hon. Member asked about is 40 km long and had a contract sum of K41.5 million. As I indicated, the contract expired and was not renewed. The name of the constructor is A-Plus Management Services who did 20 per cent works on the 40 km stretch. The contract expired as a result of time, and non-payment when it was running. The company has a certificate of K11.1 million for that road, which represents 20 per cent progress. It is my opinion that those who signed the contract should have found the money to pay the contractor so that he concluded work on that road. Unfortunately, as I have said before, those roads were over-procured to the extent that when the contractors, most of whom were members of the Patriotic Front (PF), were given the contracts, they were given down payments, but then the previous Government stopped paying them. When we took over office, we found a debt of K5.8 billion under an annual budget of only K300 million. This should tell you the whole story. The picture should be laid bare. We are not magicians to have just manufactured money to repair those roads.

Madam Speaker, by the way, Katete is even a bit fortunate because 20 per cent of the works were done. There are certain parts of the country where zero kilometres were done and are in a worse state than Katete. However, to comfort my colleague, in the Budget that will be presented, some money has been put aside for road works. It is a question of giving priority to roads that are in a bad state, such as the road that is in the constituency that was once called Msanzala. What is it called now?

Hon. Member: Kaumbwe!

Mr Nkombo: No!

What is that constituency?

Hon. Opposition Member: Lusangazi!

Mr Nkombo: Lusangazi Constituency.

When the President visited that area, he guided us that we must, as quickly as possible, move to make the roads motorable. So, we are desirous of doing that. In view of the limited resource envelope that we have, we will see whether that matter can be dealt with within the coming Budget or not.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, are there any immediate measures that the Government is putting in place to ensure that those roads are passable?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, indeed, there are measures that we have put in place and, from as far back as a year ago, I stood on the Floor of this House and indicated that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning had put aside money for emergencies vis-a-vis crossing points so that, at least, the roads are motorable. I can confirm that there are some hon. Members who have been frequenting my office, namely Hon. Mtayachalo, who is in green, and the hon. Member for Lusangazi, whose constituencies are in the same province as my sister’s constituency is. They came with bills of quantity (BoQs) for only cut-off crossing points. The hon. Member for Milanzi has been to my office before, although she has not been in a long time. She should come so that we sit down and see where we can meet each other at our halfway.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Phiri: Ah, imwe!

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is a friendly invitation, hon. Member.

The last indication is from the hon. Member for Masaiti.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, since the contractor did 20 per cent of the works before the contract expired, does the ministry intend to continue with him when funds are made available?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question.

Madam Speaker, the contracts are in two categories. There are those that expired over time and those that were terminated, typically, due to a lack of budgetary provisions, as the case was in the past. In the contracts we terminated as a result of budgetary provisions, the contractors have been given the right of first refusal when the money is available. Unfortunately, the A-Plus contract is one of those that expired over time. So, they do not enjoy the right of first refusal when funds are available. However, because we are a reasonable lot, we will look at the tendering process, which is backed by law, and we may invite Mr A-Plus to also take part in the tendering process. Obviously, he must enjoy the privilege of having worked on that road. So, he can be considered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PROCUREMENT OF BEDS, MATTRESSES, X-RAY MACHINE AND LABORATORY EQUIPMENT FOR OLD LUNDAZI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

64. Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi) asked the Minister of Health:

1. when the Government will procure the following equipment in order to fully operationalise Old Lundazi District Hospital in Lundazi District:

1. beds and mattresses;

1. x-ray machine; and

1. laboratory equipment;

1. what the cause of the delay in procuring the equipment is; and

1. when additional doctors and other medical staff will be deployed to the hospital.

Mr Lufuma (on behalf of Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the procurement process of hospital beds with mattresses was finalised in May, 2023, by the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), and the supplier delivered at end of September 2023. Preparation for distribution to all beneficiary public health facilities, including Old Lundazi District Hospital, are under-way. The hospital has been allocated fifty beds with mattresses.

Madam Speaker, the procurement of x-ray machines is under-way. Tender bids were invited on 27^th September, 2023, and will close on 29^th October, 2023. The expected delivery timeframe is April, 2024.

Madam Speaker, the Government intends to procure medical equipment through ZAMMSA in a phased approach, starting in 2024 and health facilities in Lundazi District are expected to benefit from that Government initiative.

Madam Speaker, the delay in the procurement of beds and mattresses has mainly been due to requests for extension of the delivery periods by suppliers, who were also affected by market dynamics. The delay in the procurement of x-ray and laboratory equipment is due to limited fiscal space. Money, money.

Madam Speaker, during the 2023 recruitment exercise, two doctors will be deployed to Old Lundazi District Hospital and that will bring the total number of medical doctors at the hospital to five. The House may wish to note that the Government, through the ministry, will continue to prioritise the recruitment of medical doctors and other health workers not only for health facilities in Lundazi District, but for all public health facilities countrywide. I am sure, you heard the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning announce the figures last Friday.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, the people of Lundazi are grateful for the information the hon. Minister has just provided; that the ministry will deliver the beds soon or is in the process of doing that. However, there is a difference between Lundazi District Hospital and Old Lundazi Hospital. Old Lundazi Hospital is abandoned and not operational. So, people walk 6 km to reach the new hospital.

Madam Speaker, universal health coverage means all people having access to health facilities near where they live. In this case, the people in Lundazi are not accessing services from the medical facility that is at their doorsteps. What interim measures is the ministry going to put in place to ensure that the hospital is operational?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lundazi for this question.

Madam Speaker, this question needs a more detailed response. However, as Acting Minister of Health, I am not privy to the details of the immediate measures that will be put in place. Suffice it for me to say that this Government is committed to universal health coverage and, as such, all will be done to ensure that some services are provided in order for the community near to Old Lundazi District Hospital to access health services.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I have been advised that we do not have a quorum.

Business was suspended from 1620 hours until 1621 hours.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, last month, the hon. Minister of Health indicated that the ministry had bought the x-ray machine for the hospital. The people of Lundazi would like to know when it will be delivered. I do not think that the issue is about procuring the x-ray machine. When is the ministry going to deliver the x-ray machine to the hospital?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, as the x-ray machine is already procured, I can assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi that it will be delivered in the shortest time possible, and the maximum timeframe I can give is a month from now.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

_______

BILL

FIRST READING

THE FISHERIES (Amendment) BILL, 2023

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order No. 13 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, with leave of the House, I beg to move that the Bill be withdrawn to allow for further consultation with the ministry.

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

The Bill, by leave, accordingly withdrawn.

_______

MOTION

BUDGET 2024

(Debate resumed)

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you most sincerely for giving me this rare opportunity, on behalf of the people of Katuba, to be the first one to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Supply, which was ably moved by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, on Friday, 29^th September, 2023.

Madam Speaker, in the first instance, allow me to comment on the theme of the Budget Speech, which is “Unlocking Economic Potential”. The theme recognises that Zambia has massive potential for economic growth and, as such, the Budget policy statement endeavours to create an enabling environment, through policy, resource allocation and incentives, for unlocking the potential in various sectors in the country. In my debate, I will focus on four sectors only.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I will talk about tourism. As the House may be aware, Zambia stands out as a prime tourist destination in terms of endowments in the country to the entire African region and the world, and has a wealth of natural tourism resources and assets, such as protected wildlife areas occupying 32 per cent of the country’s land mass. In this regard, the tourism sector has the potential to contribute to the country’s economic growth, but it faces several impediments and challenges, such as underdeveloped tourism-related infrastructure, limited tourism product range and scope, inadequate tourism promotion and marketing, and low participation by locals in direct and indirect tourism development.

Madam Speaker, it is important that the necessary resources are allocated to the tourism sector to address the challenges that impede it and, to that effect, we saw resources being provided in the Budget. I am, therefore, happy to note that the Government has increased the allocation to the sector by 110 per cent, from K366.3 million in 2023 to K769.5 million in 2024. In 2023, already, we have seen an increase in international tourist arrivals from 496,456 in the first half of 2022 to 605,650 in the corresponding period of 2023. In addition, the Government, in partnership with the Public Service Microfinance Company, in August 2023, launched the Public Service Domestic Tourism Loan Scheme to boost the tourism sector. The scheme will allow Public Service workers to access loans for local tourism purposes in order to ensure that domestic tourism develops and thrives. I am happy to note that the Government intends to work on mechanisms to extend the loan scheme to private sector employees so that participation can be broader. I have no doubt in my mind that the initiatives, which are as a result of deliberate policy and investment in the sector, will yield positive results for the sector to grow and contribute to the growth of the gross domestic product (GDP). I spent almost a decade in the sector, but I did not see such an unprecedented allocation of resources to tourism development, tourism marketing and tourism promotion. It shows the New Dawn Government’s commitment to growing the sector so that it can contribute to the growth of the economy and diversify it from dependency on copper.

Madam Speaker, secondly, I want to talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I need to emphasise that the increase in the CDF amount, both in quantum and scope, is a game changer for many constituencies, especially those in rural areas. Let me focus on the education and health sectors of the CDF component. You will agree with me that the key developmental need of rural communities is access to health and education. Undoubtedly, responding to that need will go a long way in providing the necessary conditions for rural economies to thrive and ensuring that the people in rural areas have access to good education and health care. The CDF will have an impact on health and education in rural communities through the construction of maternity annexes and water reticulation systems at health centres, as well as the construction of housing units for health care workers, which will contribute to improved health care provision in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, on education, 3,132 classroom blocks have been constructed and 442,000 desks have been procured using the CDF. This entails that pupils are now learning in a conducive environment. That will improve pupil performance and the living standards of the people in rural areas. In this regard, I am glad that the hon. Minister announced yet another increase of the CDF from K28.3 million to K30.6 million per constituency, which will enhance the provision of important amenities to the people in rural constituencies.

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF). I register my delight over the increase of the LGEF from K1.3 billion to K1.4 billion. In addition, transforming the fund into a recurrent grant will enable local authorities to improve conditions of service for council workers, who play an important role in the decentralisation agenda as well as the management of local authorities. Further, local authorities will have significant resources for their operations, which will enhance efficiency and effectiveness, as well as eliminate delays in paying their workers.

Madam Speaker, may I, in the last remaining time, talk about environmental sustainability, which the hon. Minister talked about. You will agree with me that, often times, it has been argued that meaningful economic growth cannot be achieved without destroying the environment. To the contrary, economic growth and environmental sustainability can be achieved with balanced investment in both the environment and human capacity. With the foregoing, I am happy to note that the hon. Minister announced an increment in the allocation of resources to environmental protection from K1.1 billion in 2023 to K1.5 billion in 2024. This gives an indication that the Government is committed to striking a balance between economic development and sustainable development. This development brings about a balance between nature, humanity and posterity.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, let me reiterate that the Budget statement presented by the hon. Minister provides an enabling environment for unlocking Zambia’s economic potential by ensuring that the private sector thrives. It is, therefore, our responsibility to not only support the Budget, but also provide effective oversight so that it is implemented for the greater good of the country and the people of Zambia.

With those few remarks, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka) Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for this privilege to be the second to contribute to the debate on the Budget Speech, which was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, on Friday, 29^th September, 2023, under the theme, “Unlocking Economic Potential”.

Madam Speaker, I will talk about three things, namely education and skills development, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and agriculture.

Madam Speaker, on education and skills development, the Government is committed to providing quality education, and it is good that it has continued building the 115 secondary schools whose construction had stopped. However, there are not enough secondary schools in Isoka Constituency, like in many other rural constituencies. As a result, pupils in rural constituencies walk long distances.

Madam Speaker, the Government is going to employ 4,200 teachers and 1,000 non-teaching staff. However, many teachers have been in the same position for a long time because they have not been promoted, and those who went for further studies have not had their salary scales upgraded. Before the Government employs more teachers, it should promote those who have worked for a long time and those who have upgraded their qualifications.

Madam Speaker, on the CDF, I note that the Government has increased it from K28.3 million to K30.6 million. However, getting the CDF has not been easy. A number of constituencies have not managed to get most of the 2023 CDF allocation, and that has caused a number of projects in the constituencies to not be implemented. Planning for CDF projects by Ward Development Committees (WDCs) has become a very big challenge due to funding gaps. Therefore, I would like to inform the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that hon. Members of Parliament may not be able to use the CDF to build feeder roads in their constituencies as he advised. Therefore, feeder roads in most parts of the country, including in Isoka, will continue being in a bad state. The Government should provide funds for the construction of feeder roads, as the current CDF is not sufficient to repair many roads.

Madam Speaker, on agriculture, the high cost of mealie meal is affecting many Zambians. However, the hon. Minister, in his speech, said that according to the 2022/2023 Crop Forecast, the country produced a lot of maize that was sufficient to feed everyone. Therefore, the Government should immediately do something about the high cost of mealie meal. Further, the Government should endeavour to distribute farming inputs to small-scale farmers on time, including those who were removed from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) register.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, last time, when I was debating the Supplementary Budget, I told the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that he needed to desist from bringing documents that had mistakes to this House. What do I mean?

Madam Speaker, on page 34, paragraph 193, of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister said the following:

“To ensure that more resources are directly provided to communities for local development, including basic services such as clean and safe water, maternity wings and school desks, I propose to increase the allocation to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to K4.8 billion.”

That means that the hon. Minister has allocated K4.8 billion to the CDF in the 2024 Budget.

Hon. Government Members: He proposed.

Mr Mukosa: Of course, proposing and allocating is the same thing. So –

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Mukosa: He is proposing that we allocate K4.8 billion. Why are they arguing?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

There is only one person who is debating on the Floor. Hon. Ministers can jot down what is being said so that when their time to respond comes, they can correct whatever is not put correctly.

Hon. Member for Chinsali, you may continue.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, thank you for your protection.

Madam Speaker, the table on page 32, which shows the expenditure by functions of the Government, shows all the expenses that are –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was talking about the discrepancy in the budgetary allocation to the CDF that the hon. Minister announced and what is actually in the Budget. On page 34, the hon. Minister indicates that he has proposed to increase the allocation to K4.8 billion. Then on page 32, on the table for expenditure by functions, in line 17, it is indicated that the proposed allocation to the CDF is K3.8 billion. What does this mean? It means that if you divide K3.8 billion by 156 constituencies, the actual allocation is K24.5 million per constituency, not the K30.6 million that has been announced. Perhaps, that is the reason we have not received the whole CDF for 2023.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the pronouncement that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning made as regards the recruitment of teachers. The hon. Minister said that the Government is going to recruit 4,200 teachers. However, on page 25 of the speech that the President made when he came here on 8^th September, 2023, to open this Parliament, the President says that next year, the Government is going to employ 4,500 teachers. Why the discrepancy? Which one are we going to follow? If what the hon. Minister announced here in Parliament is wrong, then he is misleading the public.

Mr Speaker, let me now give my analytical perspective of the 2024 Budget. The Budget does not inspire hope to the people of Zambia. The reasons are very simple, …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mukosa: … and I will explain them. The first reason is that the Budget does not address the suffering of the people of Zambia because, right now, the cost of living is very high. People are having challenges in affording the cost of basic commodities because everything is expensive. So, they expected the Government to introduce measures that will come to their aid.

Mr Speaker, what has the Government done? It has proposed to introduce a levy on person-to-person mobile money transactions. What will that measure do? It will, in effect, result in the suffering of the people worsening. That is what it means. This is because each transaction that a person makes will be levied. If you have two cellular phones and there is K10,000 in one of them, you will be charged when sending K5,000 to the other one. There is no justification for taking this measure because it is harmful to the people. So, I do not support the proposal because it will take backwards the positive strides that have been made as regards financial inclusion.

Mr Speaker, the second reason the Budget is not inspiring is that it has not provided adequate relief to the people of Zambia. Let us look at the Pay As You Earn (PAYE) relief that has been proposed for the people. The hon. Minister proposes to reduce PAYE in the top income bracket from 37.5 per cent to 37 per cent. That is very insignificant. Further, the non-taxable amount has been increased from K4,800 to K5,100. That is a welcome move, but the increase is very insignificant. That K300 increase –

Mr Mbao: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbao: Mr Speaker, I wish to say ‘sorry’ to my brother, ...

Ms Sefulo: Do not apologise.

Mr Mbao: ...but he has compelled me to raise this point of order.

Mr Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65, on content of speech. The hon. Member, who is an accountant, read what the President mentioned here. He was very attentive when he was following His Excellency the President as well as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Chinsali in order, first of all, to mislead himself? He has also misled all of us here in the House, including you, and misled the entire nation by saying that when the President came here, he said that 4,500 teachers will be employed next year. I do not know which speech he was reading. The President said that, this year, we are going to employ 4,500 teachers. That was very clear. So, where has the hon. Member gotten that figure from?

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order, therefore, to mislead you in broad daylight?

I need your serious ruling on this matter, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Chinsali is completely out of order …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … to mislead himself and this House.

I urge you, hon. Members, also, to not bring the President into your debate. Let us debate according to our Standing Orders. I know that the hon. Member for Chinsali is a veteran. So, he knows our rules. So, he is completely out of order.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, I was saying that the relief that has been extended to the people of Zambia is inadequate. In view of the K300 increase in the non-taxable amount in terms of PAYE, the saving that is going to be made by the people who get salaries is K60. That is not enough, as a poor civil servant cannot even buy more than three litres of fuel with that amount.

Mr Speaker, the Budget Speech is not inspiring at all. Look at how silent it is as regards the increment of salaries of civil servants. The cost of commodities has gone up. So, we expected the hon. Minister to explain the measures that the Government will put in place to help the poor and vulnerable civil servants. We wanted him to state that civil servants will have an increment of 20 per cent to 30 per cent so that they start getting reasonable money.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, people can say “question” because they are eating; they are full. Since we, Government leaders, are full, we forget about the people paying taxes. We will be taxing poor civil servants and Zambians to enrich senior Government officials. There are other ways we can improve liquidity, such as reducing the trips of senior Government officials, and we can save a lot.

With those few remarks, Mr Speaker, the people of Chinsali have spoken.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, I am very grateful for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, before I go further, I want to say that the Budget Speech is very inspiring in the area of manufacturing. I know that we are getting back to the 1970s, when we had Refined Oil Products (ROP) Ltd and Dunlop Zambia though, perhaps, some of my colleagues here were not born then. We are about to see industrialisation in this country. I am happy about the agrarian revolution that is embedded in the Budget Speech, and the creation of farming blocks will definitely create small industries that will enable people from towns to go back to rural areas.

Mr Speaker, I am also happy that this Government has been very consistent with the increase of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and, because of that, we have seen that the countryside has been turned into construction sites. Schools, clinics and crossing points are being constructed and desks as well as earth-moving equipment are being purchased. I have no doubt in my mind that councils will work on feeder roads because they will have the equipment. This Government was voted into office on the platform of change and, for sure, Zambians are witnessing change. Rural Zambia is being transformed. Decisions were being made in Lusaka, and in Mwinilunga or Chinsali, we received very little development. Now, we are able to make decisions on our own.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Mr Speaker, since the CDF has been increased, I would like to suggest that, perhaps, we increase the administrative cost from 10 per cent to 12 per cent so as to retrain council staff. The Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) has employed graduates, and some of them have no experience, and that is why we have challenges in councils. So, I suggest that we reserve some money at the ministry to train the cadre in our councils.

Mr Speaker, the increase in the CDF is good for all of us, but constituencies like mine, Chinsali, and Shiwang’andu, which have fifteen wards or more, are disadvantaged. To some extent, there is inequality in the distribution of the CDF. Therefore, I appeal to our colleagues across to support the Government when it proposes delimitation of some constituencies. If they refuse, they will disadvantage their people. The Government would like to address inequality because it wants to make changes that benefit every Zambian.

Mr Speaker, very quickly, let me talk about the issue of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). I suggest that we decentralise the agency and that the management of food reserves be done at the district level, not at the national level. There must be strategic food reserves in every district. If the people of Mwinilunga produce 80,000 metric tonnes and their annual consumption is 50,000 metric tonnes, the 50,000 metric tonnes should not leave Mwinilunga. Only 30 per cent must be taken to the national level. We should also encourage the private sector to set up milling plants in districts. What the Patriotic Front (PF) Government did was not sustainable.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Milling plants should be in the hands of the private sector. Let the private sector do the milling in all districts. The advantage is that we will reduce the cost of producing mealie meal because the maize from the farmer will be taken to the FRA in the same district, from the FRA to the miller and from the miller to the consumer in Mwinilunga. So, there will be no handling charges and transportation costs. Therefore, mealie meal will be sold at a low price in every district.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me this rare opportunity to raise a point of order in accordance with Standing Order No. 65, on relevance of speech.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament who is on the Floor insinuates that the delivering Government of the Patriotic Front (PF) is the one that introduced milling companies in the private sector when he knows that some people calling themselves good names like ‘financial advisor’ or ‘privatisation advisor’ privatised companies.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what rule has been breached?

Mr Kapyanga: Standing Order No.65.

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: The other issue that I want to raise is that …

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: … the hon. Member knows that ten Zambia National Service (ZNS) milling plants were established by the PF. Is he in order, therefore, –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Resume your seat.

You cannot raise two points of order. You can also not raise a point of order on another point of order. That is not allowed.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to mislead the House, his constituents and the nation at large by insinuating that it is the PF Government that placed milling companies in the hands of the private sector when he knows that the PF Government, in fact, placed ten milling plants in the hands of the ZNS, but the mealie meal it is milling is being exported to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) by the party and Government he supports, the very uncaring Government that he supports?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

If I heard the hon. Member for Mwinilunga correctly, he was referring to the solar milling plants dotted across the country, which are white elephants. Those are the ones he was referring to.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Samakayi: Mr Speaker, my colleagues like disturbing me. I meant the blue milling plants with a Chinese flag and, I think, a Zambian flag that are dotted all over the country and managed by PF cadres to date.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: I am saying that that system is not sustainable. Let us allow the private sector to set up milling plants in every district so that whatever is produced in Shiwang’andu is milled in Shiwang’andu and whatever is produced in Mwinilunga is milled in Mwinilunga so that we reduce the price of mealie meal.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Continue!

Forget about him. Your time is running out.

Mr Samakayi: Mr Speaker, –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, to have a say on the Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker, I know that we have been struggling to state whether the Budget Speech is inspiring or not. According to the Chilubi Video Assistant Referee (VAR), when the Budget Speech was being presented here in Parliament, 37.5 per cent of the people were sleeping and more than 61 per cent were disinterested. That was on a lighter note.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Fube: Having given those statistics from our VAR, I would like to say that in one way or the other, the first point to make about the Budget is that it has gaps.

Mr Speaker, we had the 2022 and 2023 Budgets, and we now have the 2024 Budget. The 2022 Budget was K172 billion, the 2023 Budget was K167 billion and the 2024 Budget is K177 billion. Now, given those figures, there is a build-up in the borrowing plans of all those Budgets. For instance, in the first Budget, which is supposed to be the first baby of the New Dawn Government, the Government was aspiring to produce 3 million tonnes of copper which, I think, everybody was excited about. However, I am not excited because in view of the current production levels, and even with the coming in of Vendanta Resources Limited, that fake investor, we are not going anywhere in terms of the production of copper.

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Why do –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, …

Mr Fube: Yes.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … may you resume your seat.

As you debate, mind your speech. How do you refer to an established firm as a fake institution when it is not here to defend itself? Vedanta Resources Limited is an established entity. As such, it cannot be fake.

Mr Kasandwe interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: He said that it is a fake institution.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, withdraw the word “fake” and replace it will an appropriate one.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Fube: Well, Mr Speaker, I would like to replace the word “fake” with ‘fluke’ because I have data that can show the record and history –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

“Fluke” and “fake”, are one and the same thing. If you are not ready to debate, we can move to the next person. Replace the word fake with an appropriate one.

Mr Fube: For the sake of the people of Chilubi who sent me here, I think, I withdraw the word.

Mr Speaker, from the colonial times to date, Zambia has been a mineral-dependent economy. So, we need to take care of our resources properly. What I meant is that the company I referred to, whose name some people are trying to pronounce like they were Indians, bought Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) at US$25 million, and the mine has been handed over to the same company at the same price. In 1973, we were producing 750,000 metric tonnes of copper but, today, we are producing less than that. What I am trying to say is that this mineral called copper has built Zambia and that its export value is between 69 per cent and 71 per cent, Vedanta Resources Limited aside.

Mr Speaker, I want to say that the Budget does not offer any hope, especially to the have-nots. There is a big gap that in the old school of economics, is referred to as the Gini coefficient, which has not been attended to by the hon. Minister. I know that the hon. Minister is in a quagmire because certain things that he talked about in the Budgets that I mentioned are not linking. There is no synergy.

Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about ‘meal meal’.

Hon. UPND Members: ‘Mealie meal’!

Mr Fube: Yes, ‘meal meal’.

Laughter

Mr Fube: You may call it “mealie meal”, but it is ‘meal meal’.

Madam Speaker, I am shocked that some people were despising the solar-powered mills that were installed instead of building on, because the Government is a going concern. The mills just need lithium iron batteries for them to power 250 households in each radius, but I am shocked that that is being taken as a waste of resources.

Mr Speaker, I represent twenty-four wards in my constituency, and in a complicated environment. The people of Chilubi, just like the people of Kaputa and other areas, expected the money that has been borrowed to go to the construction of roads because the hon. Minister emphasised on connectivity. However, if the Budget was a mirror, the people of Chilubi would not see themselves in it. Of the forty-two items that have been stipulated, only three concern Chilubi. The people of Kaputa usually call me because I have ties with them, and they expected the Kaputa/Mporokoso Road to be worked on, since it is slightly above 200 km. However, it is not one of the roads that were announced, yet many roads were announced. So, we missed an opportunity.

Mr Speaker, as far as I am concerned, and this is my opinion, the Budget Speech is empty and does not speak to the aspirations of Zambians. I say so because the majority Zambians are poor and the Budget is enriching the already rich. It is for multinationals, not the citizens. The measures that the hon. Minister has introduced will empower foreigners more than the locals. There is no provision for fiscal space for the citizens. It is a Budget that is shooting in the dark; a Budget that is at sea and a Budget that has to be addressed properly.

Mr Speaker, I want to talk about debt. It is in this Parliament that we were told that there is an annual borrowing plan. Whenever we refer to the annual borrowing plan for 2022, we have controversy. There is, again, an annual borrowing plan, but it is within the parameters of the Public Debt Management Act, Section 8 to be specific. We, as hon. Members of Parliament, have been given the authority to approve the Budget, but the way we sneak in this document together with the Budget copy is not as the Constitution stipulates on how we are supposed to approve the Budget because, again, there will be controversy when we quote the figures. So, we hope that this time around, that will improve.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, I would have continued talking, but time does not allow me. However, even though some hon. Ministers are saying “Question”!, only the hon. Minister of Energy is doing something in Chilubi and, possibly, through the –

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Most hon. Ministers are not present there because of the allocated money. We only depend on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So, with that said, the Budget Speech does not speak to the needs of Zambians, especially given that the price of fuel is high and the cost of other things has gone through the roof.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Thank you, hon. Member.

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: As hon. Members, let us get acquainted with the processes of the House. That is very important. You know, when the Budget Speech is presented, it does not mean that it has been validated, so is the borrowing plan. They are subjected to validation. You know all the processes. At one point, we look at the borrowing plan and, at another, the Appropriation Bill.

So, do not mislead the people and yourself, hon. Member.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Mwandi, to contribute to the debate on this very inspiring Budget Speech that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, when I was in college, my lecturer drew three dots on a piece paper and asked the class what it was seeing. All of us saw the dots, but we did not see how big and plain that paper was. When it comes to this House, no matter how good the Budget is, there are people who concentrate only on one thing that they do not even understand.

Mr Speaker, I am an accountant. Let me praise myself and say that as I was growing up, I always got distinctions in mathematics, and that is why I studied accounts. I am very shocked and disappointed that someone who is in the same field as me cannot add.

Mr Speaker, I will refer you to page 32 of the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. However, the Former President, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., would always say that “ignorance is bad, but little knowledge is very dangerous and can be very misleading.”

Mr Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) appears twice in the Budget. When we add the two figures, we get K30.6 million for all constituencies. So, how can someone just pick one figure and mislead the whole country? That is unacceptable, and that is someone who is even wearing a suit; someone who bathed at home and came here to debate.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: The evidence is here.

Mr Speaker, let me get back to the Budget Speech.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Lumezi.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, I am following the submissions being made by the hon. Member for Mwandi Constituency.

Mr Speaker, the majority of us in this House are wearing suits. In reference to Standing Order No. 65, on content of speech, is she in order (pointing at the hon. Member for Mwandi), she who is wearing a dress –

Ms Sefulo: Why are you pointing at me?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You do not need to point at her, hon. Member.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, knowing very well that she is wearing a dress, is she in order to refer to us men wearing suits and say that we have come from home without bathing? The Budget Speech does not talk about our wearing suits and bathing. Is she in order to take the route that she has taken? This is debating ourselves because, I suspect, you are also wearing a suit.

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I did not hear anything of that sort for me to pass a ruling.

May the hon Member for Mwandi continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, let me talk about the increase in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) amount. The CDF is a game changer not in the constituencies of hon. Members on the right only. You should see the excitement of these people (indicating hon. Members on the left) when they are commissioning projects in their respective constituencies. They are excited even more than us. When there was a circular regarding the commissioning of projects, I saw them crying because they know what the CDF is doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, let me talk about the recruitment of teachers and health workers. It takes a minute to tear something, but it takes –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Much as you saw hon. Members being excited, we are not allowed to debate ourselves.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, let me move on and talk about the increment of salaries for Councillors. Councillors have been suffering, but this is a listening Government. Today, Councillors in this country are very excited about the Budget, because we are taking them out of poverty as their salaries will be increased.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the budget for education. Much as we are talking about poverty, how do we take people out of poverty? Education is the equaliser. When you invest in education, you are investing in the future of our children. Children are going to school free of charge, and that means they are assured of a better tomorrow; a better future. That is what parents who love their children do. That is what a Government that loves its citizenry does. It invests in their education.

Mr Speaker, I am also very excited about the increment in student loans, and I will talk about the University of Zambia (UNZA). Meal allowances for students were withdrawn by the people who claim to love students so much. However, what did that do to the girl child? Girl children had to go out with older men because they could not afford having meals. Not only is this Government providing free education, but it has also taken out the risk that female students at higher learning institutions were subjected to. That is what a Government that cares does. That is what the Budget speaks to.

Mr Speaker, let me come to the issue of mealie meal. If you read the Budget Speech, you will see the trajectory that this Government is taking. We have to invest in agriculture. I tend to wonder when people say that things are very expensive. I visited one hon. Member of Parliament whose name I will not mention, and I found the yard paved. We cannot even grow vegetables because we pave the yards. How do we tackle the issue of mealie meal? We can do that through the increment in the allocation in agriculture and the loans that will be provided. A farmer was getting K180 for his maize so he was not attracted to growing more maize. However, the price of a bag of maize has been increased to K280, and every farmer is excited about growing maize. We need to understand how economics work. So, with that said, the issue of mealie meal will be tackled. However, the way we tackle those issues is not abracadabra, no. Everything has to be methodical. We have to make sure that we plan and give solutions that will last. We are not giving bubble gum solutions, whereby tomorrow, they do not work. We want solutions that will last forever.

Mr Speaker, we are excited about the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF), as it will also help us in our constituencies. So, the people of Mwandi, the people on the left or, let me just say this House, are very excited about the Budget.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: I can hear hon. Members saying “Hear, hear!” because they are excited. We are very excited about the Budget.

With that said, I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, in a minute, let me state that when we are in this House, we should make suggestions that benefit the Zambian people. This House is for the Zambian people, not for politics. Can we politick out there. Here, we should identify challenges and offer solutions. It is from there that the Zambian people will be able to judge whether we are representing them or we are simply fighting among ourselves. We need to progress, as a country. I think, that is how we should move.

Mr Speaker, I have gone through the Budget Speech. The question we should ask ourselves, especially those of us who are providing checks and balances, is: How best should we have presented the Budget had we been given that opportunity? We should be able to produce an alternative budget, to counter the Budget. I would have liked to see an alternative budget.

Mr Kampyongo interjected

Mr Mung’andu: I know, we can do that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: We should consider doing that, going forward.

Mr Speaker, I will start with the positives before I talk about the challenges and how best –

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I need to be protected. Time is running out.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mpika!

May you resume your seat.

Hon. Member for Chama South, you may continue.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, the Budget has its positives and challenges. In what environment has it been formulated? Those are the things that we have to look at. Where are we, as a country, economically? That is why I said that we must be objective as we debate, as that is the only way the Zambian people are going to benefit from our debates.

Mr Speaker, on agriculture, the President, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, indicated that the Government will maintain the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) with more than 1 million beneficiaries. As Member of Parliament for Chama South, much as that is good, in the long run, it is not sustainable. At what point do we subsidise our people? In case hon. Members are not aware, we have a double subsidy that does not benefit our people. The hon. Minister said that, gradually, we need to phase that out, and I am among the people who support that idea.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, graduating people to the credit facility window is what is sustainable. Time is my enemy, but let me submit that there is no correlation between the amount of money we put aside for FISP and that used to purchase agro products. We are spending a lot of money that should have been directed to other social sectors.

Mr Speaker, what we should do, as a nation, now, is find out at which point we should subsidise. I want to offer a solution. We subsidise FISP by putting in a lot of money, but everyone buys maize cheaply from farmers who are heavily subsidised. That maize is also offloaded to millers at a cheap price. Others are exporting that maize to foreign countries because we have a free market economy. In short, we are subsidising even other countries. Is that beneficial? The answer is ‘No’. Going forward, my suggestion is that we take the people who are being phased out of FISP to the credit facility window. That is a brilliant idea, and we need to support it.

Mr Mukosa: You are dreaming.

Mr Mung’andu: It is not dreaming. It is a fact. As an accountant, you know that, and you should check the figures.

Mr Speaker, what has paralysed me is the inclusion of Councillors’ conditions of service. I got concerned, as someone who is in the Opposition.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: When we were in the Ruling Party, we increased the salaries of Councillors, I think, from K700 to K3,000, but the Councillors cried. In my understanding, our colleagues listened. So, we want to know how much Councillors will be getting. That is what we want to know.

Mr Speaker, we can all not deny that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is doing wonders in our constituencies.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: However, we urge –

Hon Opposition Member: In Chama South.

Mr Mung’andu: It is doing wonders not only in Chama South, but throughout the country. However, we urge our colleagues who now have the mantle of leadership to release the money timely. That is what we are requesting. We are in the fourth quarter of this year, but we have only received the CDF for the first quarter. So, we request that the money be released on time. The Government should also put procurement plans in place and build capacity. Otherwise, we will be implementing projects we are supposed to implement this year next year. I am making a submission, and I have said that I will offer solutions to the challenges I observed. The Government should put in place procurement plans so that every year, we use the CDF.

Mr Speaker, we have also observed that the CDF is being abused. Watch what is going on in many councils. Which people are receiving contracts in councils and what are they preaching? There is a case in my constituency in which some people are claiming that the money they are using to build classroom blocks is from their pockets. Should that be allowed? We know that that money is coming from the Central Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: So, let us work together and alleviate the suffering of our people.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the people of Katombola, to add my voice to the debate on the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister responsible for finance.

Mr Speaker, allow me to begin by joining my colleague, the hon. Member for Mwandi, in correcting the misinformation given by the hon. Member – For which constituency?

Hon. Government Members: Chinsali!

Mr Andeleki: Chinsali, who is supposed to be an accountant.

Mr Speaker, allow me to refer this House to page 34, bullet point No. 193 of the Budget Speech, where the Minister says the following:

“Madam Speaker, to ensure that more resources are directly provided to communities for local development, including basic services such as clean and safe water, maternity wings, and school desks, I propose to increase the allocation to CDF to K4.8 billion. With this increase, each constituency will receive K30.6 million from the current K28.3 million.”

Mr Speaker, that is what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning read, and I was quoting ipsissima verba.

Mr Speaker, let me refer you to page 32, and I want the hon. Member who calls himself an accountant to add these two figures. On page 32 of the Budget Speech, the amount allocated to the CDF under “Economic Affairs” is K3,836,252,641 and the one provided for under “Recreation, Culture and Religious Education” is K942,907,506. When you add the two figures and divide the sum by 156, the hon. Accountant will realise that the CDF has been increased in reality.

Mr Speaker, away from the mathematics I was using to guide the accountant, allow me, on behalf of the people of Katombola Constituency, to join many hon. Members of Parliament who have spoken in favour of the Budget Speech delivered to this august House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. The people of Katombola Constituency are overjoyed, and they send accolades to the New Dawn Government and thank it for the wonders it is performing in Katombola Constituency.

Mr Speaker, I will begin with the issue of free education. The introduction of free education has been a game changer for the people of Katombola Constituency. When the United Party for National Development (UPND) formed Government in August, 2021, there was only one boarding secondary school in the five chiefdoms that form Katombola Constituency. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government concentrated on investing in illiteracy.

Laughter

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, in Chief Moomba’s Chiefdom, one of the chiefdoms in Katombola Constituency, a child would only go up to Grade 7, fifty-seven years after Independence. There are five chiefdoms in Katombola Constituency, but there is only one boarding school. The people of Katombola are saying ‘long live the New Dawn Government’ for introducing the Free Education Policy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: Most people in Katombola Constituency are very poor and cannot afford to pay K100. So, we thank the Government for the Budget. Free education means nothing to the rich, but for the people of Katombola Constituency, it means a lot.

Ms Sefulo: It means everything.

Mr Andeleki: It means everything because we did not have secondary schools. There was only one secondary school covering five chiefdoms.

Madam Speaker, there was no mortuary in the five chiefdoms. A person who passed away in the morning would be buried the same day. In view of the increase in the CDF allocation, the people of Katombola Constituency do not know which words to use to thank the Government. The CDF is a game changer for the people of Katombola Constituency because it is touching the lives of our people and saving them from being poverty-stricken through various opportunities that have been availed. We thank the New Dawn Government, the President, Her Honour the Vice-President and the Cabinet for such milestones and decisions.

Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about agriculture. Katombola Constituency is predominately an agricultural zone, and it feeds the people of this country and others outside Zambia. I want to indicate that the people of Katombola Constituency are overjoyed by the continued availability of resources through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). They are very happy particularly with the introduction of the credit window, as people who, for one reason or the other, may not have benefitted from FISP will have recourse to the credit window, including me. I am a farmer who is learning, and I wish to encourage all of us to be part of the agricultural sector and produce food rather than sitting here and shouting ‘insala, insala!’, while doing nothing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, having heard the speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, every Zambian citizen is called upon to get to work. The days of getting money through cadreism are long gone.

Mr Speaker, when the PF was in Government, I met a child who was in Grade 9 and when I asked him what he wanted to do when he grew up, he said that he wanted to be a cadre so that he could sleep on money and burn some. So, a child thought that being a cadre was a career and that one could make money out of it. However, that is long gone, and it is now a call to duty. The people of Katombola Constituency are very happy with the agricultural policies introduced by the New Dawn Government, particularly on water harvesting.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You have lamented enough about the school facility. I hope that you are utilising the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) very well so that you have the boarding facilities you want.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, not “Question!” I am just guiding him that he now has the CDF.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, last Friday, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning delivered the policy statement in relation to the 2024 National Budget, and I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to comment on that statement.

Mr Speaker, I want to start by agreeing with the hon. Member for Chama South that ours, on your left, is a moral responsibility to provide alternative policies to those of the people seated on your right, and we must do that devoid of malice but, rather, with objectivity. However, as we do that, we must speak the truth and confront problems as they are.

Mr Speaker, in 2021, when the 2022 Budget was presented, my comment was that it was progressive because, in my view, it had attended to the issues confronting our people in a progressive manner. My comment on the next Budget was that it was fair because it lacked in certain areas, but was good in other areas. The 2024 Budget is horrible, ...

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: … empty and, for lack of a better term, useless.

Mr Speaker, –

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Nkana!

Content of speech. Let us ensure that we use appropriate words.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, the opposite of useless is useful. The Budget is not useful in terms of addressing the challenges our people face at the moment. We must not bury our heads in the sand with regard to the challenges our people are facing today. We must not attempt to sweep dirt under the carpet in relation to the challenges the people in our communities are facing today. Anyone who tries to bury their head in the sand is an enemy of the Zambian people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: The challenges the people face currently require our Budget to be Zambian. This Budget is foreign because it addresses the interests of foreigners …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: … and does not speak to the challenges faced by our people in the communities. A normal Budget that addresses the aspirations of the Zambian people should have considered these things.

Mr Anakoka: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Bambi mulebakanya, why?

Mr Anakoka: Mr Speaker, I rarely raise points of order.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Nkana, who has been given the privilege – By the way, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65, content of speech.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Nkana, who is on the Floor, is supposed to be debating the Budget and the proposed borrowing plan presented to the House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Is in order to go all over the place, preaching about anything and everything without any reference to the Budget? Is he in order to say that the Budget is foreign without pointing to any aspect of it that is so?

Mr Mundubile: What is your point of order?

Mr Anakoka: Mr Speaker, is he in order to even classify it as not being useful without explaining in what context it is not useful?

Mr Speaker, I seek your ruling on this derogatory statement made by the hon. Member for Nkana.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

As we interrogate the Budget, we should be able to zero in on the specifics and debate them. Shooting in the wilderness will not help us.

Hon. PF Members: No!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, the hon. Member for Nkana is definitely out of order.

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

Mr Mundubile: Do not depart from your path.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, I used to feel offended when people raised points of order, but I have now realised that the only way they can make names is by raising points of order on the Member for Nkana.

Mr Amutike: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: Please, allow many because this is a golden opportunity for them.

Mr Speaker, when a country is going through economic turmoil, as at the moment, what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should have done is to draw money from where it is sitting and allocate it to where it is needed. In the Budget for 2021, the Government decided to make mineral royalties deductible. We lost …

Mr Mundubile: K2.8 billion!

Mr B. Mpundu: … K2.8 billion. This year, 2023, we are losing close to K3 billion from that decision.

Hon. UPND Members: How?

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, through the Budget, the hon. Minister should have reversed that decision so that we use that money to cushion our people from the challenges they are confronted with, namely the prices of fuel, mealie meal and other essential commodities.

Mr Fube: Naupya!

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, we must not pretend that the cost of living is not harming our people in the community. We are an enemy of our people if we bury our heads in the sand.

Mr Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a good attempt to take money into the communities. The hon. Minister gave us K28.3 million in the 2023 Financial Year, but he has only given us K5.9 million and the balance is K22 million. We are remaining with two months before the year ends, but he has now given us K30 million. The balance and the K30 million gives us K52 million. If he failed to give us K28 million, where is he going to get K52 million? Do you know what that does? The hon. Minister is pitting us against our people because they think that we have so much money and that we are just lazy in implementing programmes. He forgets that he has not given us money. We must not come to this august House to make populist pronouncements. Our colleagues are pitting us against our people, and that is not acceptable. Nobody should ever think that Zambians are gullible enough to believe anything. Nobody should ever think that Zambians are dull. They are very enlightened.

Mr Fube: Naukula!

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, let me talk about infrastructure development. I get surprised when people think that public-private partnership (PPP) projects are free when they are borrowed projects. Let me give you a demonstration. The actual cost for the road from Lusaka to Ndola is not US$650 million. The actual cost is the amount of money that the consortium is going to collect from our tollgates for the next twenty-three years. The hon. Minister has failed to tell the Zambian people how much money will be collected in tolls for the next twenty-three years. That is the cost of that project, and that is borrowed money because the revenue we are foregoing on in toll roads is assured revenue for this country. By not collecting it, we are paying. How can somebody come and tell us that we are gullible? It is not acceptable.

Mr Fube: Naupya!

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, the other thing that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has failed to tell the Zambian –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

May you resume your seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think, when the hon. Minister came here to present the budget statement –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, I want to guide. It is my role.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: No!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Leader of the Opposition –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

It is important that, as hon. Members of Parliament, we do not mislead the public. The content of your speech has to be factual because the hon. Minister –

Mr Kasandwe interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Kasandwe, wait. I heard the hon. Minister say –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: On tollgates, the hon. Minister said that the concessionaires will not get money from the public coffers. Instead of using money from the public coffers, the would-be contractor will find a financier. So, you are misleading the public.

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa: He has missed your point.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Mr B. Mpundu resumed his seat.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, hon. Member, ensure that you present facts, not misleading the people.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, I used to get offended, but I have stopped getting offence.

Mr Speaker, what a normal Budget would have done is not allocate a K160 million to mineral exploration. What a normal Budget would have done is allocate more resources to –

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile, Mr Kampyongo and Mr Mukosa rose.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: I was first. No. No one is going to speak.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, may you resume your seat.

Mr Mundubile: No! Let him also resume his seat (pointing at Mr Mweetwa).

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Leader of the Opposition, resume your seat.

Mr Mundubile: Let him also resume his seat (pointing at Mr Mweetwa).

Hon. UPND Members interjected.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: No, we will not. You think that it is your House, imwe. You think it is your House. We will not be taken for granted. I rose on a point of order, but I was ignored. Let the hon. Minister also resume his seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Leader of the Opposition, resume your seat.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: I will not resume my seat.

Mr Kapala: Are you the Presiding Officer?

Mr Mundubile: No, but I have rights. You think that I will be trampled upon because I am not a Presiding Officer? No. Let him also resume his seat (pointing at Mr Mweetwa).

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Leader of the Opposition, resume your seat.

Mr Mundubile: But can he also resume his seat (pointing at Mr Mweetwa).

Hon. UPND Members: You walk out if you like.

Mr Mundubile resumed his seat.

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa resumed his seat.

Hon. UPND Members interjected.

Mr Kampyongo resumed his seat.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You know, as much as you want to raise a point of order, it is also good to be orderly. He said that he rose on a point of order. He stood; he was not debating while standing or seated. There was a point of order that was raised. You are raising a point of order and talking on top of your voices. So, to ensure –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Listen!

Mr Mundubile: There you go again.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us be candid with each other. You know, respect is a two-way street and –

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Leader of the Opposition, maybe, you want me to send you out.

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You want me to send you out.

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Leave the Chamber. May you leave the Assembly Chamber. If you want to dictate how I conduct business, leave the Assembly Chamber. I will not allow you to do that. Let us ensure that there is decorum in this House. I will not allow you to conduct business as you please on account of being the Leader of the Opposition.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, I subscribe to modern-day politics that dictate that we be sober.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, a point of order was raised and I said “May the hon. Member continue”. He rose on a point of order (referring to Mr Mweetwa).

Hon. Government Members: Not you (referring to Mr B. Mpundu).

Mr Mweetwa: Thank you, Mr Speaker, –

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Do not let me cross to the other side.

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Do not let me cross the Floor.

Hon. Government Members: Ah! Who are you threatening now?

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa: Voetsik!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chinsali, mind the words you are using.

Mr Mukosa, Mr Kampyongo and Mr Mundubile rose.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat. Resume your seat!

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: There is a point of order that I have granted. I am saying that you should resume your seats. What is your problem?

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mweetwa: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me this opportunity.

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order with a very heavy heart. This is my twelfth year in this House, and there are very few of us who have been in this House that long and, therefore, understand the etiquette of debate and the decorum that goes with the conduct of debate in this House, which is the practice, a precedent to this House and the entire Commonwealth whence we draw the practices that guide the conduct of business in this House.

Mr Speaker, are the hon. Members on your left in order to introduce alien conduct to this House that when the Speaker is speaking, they engage him in argument? This is something that has never happened in the last two terms that I and many of these hon. Colleagues have been in this House. When we were in the Opposition and felt dissatisfied with anything in this House, we would walk out peacefully and leave the House to conduct its business in an orderly manner.

Hon. Opposition Members: What is your point of order?

Mr Mweetwa: The point of order is: Are they in order –

Hon. Opposition Members: State the Standing Order!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I am raising a point of order anchored on the precedents and practices of this House. It is understandable that from the time members of the Patriotic Front (PF) lost the elections, they have become unruly in this House, but this is not their House alone.

Hon. Government Members: PF (Patriotic Front) culture!

Mr Mweetwa: Are they, therefore, in order, Mr Speaker, to continue to you in a discourse of arguments when we know that the rules of this House, the first rules –

Mr Mundubile: That is unacceptable! Do you think that we will sit here be abused while we watch?

Mr Mweetwa: This is exactly the reason I raised the point of order. This is the evidence.

Mr Mundubile: No! When it comes to rights, my brother, we will not sit and watch you abuse us. We will not do that.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Minister.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, if I may wind up.

Mr Speaker, are my hon. Colleagues on your left in order to violate the rules that we first learned when we came to this House? When the Speaker is speaking, you sit down. You cannot stand and begin to argue with the Presiding Officer. Is he in order, as Leader of the Opposition, to lead by bad example?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you. I reserve the ruling to study the matter. I will render my ruling later.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, you can continue.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, the biggest problem today that our people are confronted with is the ever-rising cost of commodities.

Mr Tayali: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: The Budget should have addressed those challenges.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of mealie meal, the hon. Minister made the pronouncement that according to the crop forecast, we have a 3 million metric tonne bumper harvest.

Mr Tayali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, you are aware that there are no 3 million metric tonnes of maize anywhere in this country.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr B. Mpundu: If we do not confront these problems as they are, how will we resolve them? The Budget is foreign.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. Members: Order!

Mr B. Mpundu: The Budget does not speak to the challenges of our people.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You time is up.

Mr Amutike (Mongu Central): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the chance, on behalf of the people of Mongu Central, to say a few words and debate this very good Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. The speech speaks to the economy as it is currently.

Mr Speaker, I will limit my debate to three areas of the economy, starting with the mining sector. You are aware that the people on the Copperbelt Province were languishing due to unemployment because most mining companies in the province had closed down or were in the process of closing down. For many years, some of the mines remained closed. It is the New Dawn Government that has made it possible for them to reopen. The New Dawn Government, under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has attracted investment in the mining sector and the Copperbelt Province, which is becoming a hub of economic activities. More investors are coming, as the Budget has information about the many investments that are earmarked for the Copperbelt region. We are talking of employment being created –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I raise this point of order pursuant to the standard practice of this institution. The ideal situation is that when hon. Members debate the Motion –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: State what rule has been breached.

Mr Kampyongo: I am standing in relation to the practice as cited by the hon. Minister of Information and Media. That is the practice that I am using to raise this point of order. In the spirit of justice –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that has passed.

Mr Kampyongo: No!

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am raising a point of order on the longstanding practice of this august House, the one that was cited by my colleague, the hon. Minister of Information and Media.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

A point of order is supposed to be raised immediately after an incident has –

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are raising it against him.

Mr Kampyongo: No, no! It is not on him!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: What rule has been breached? State what rule has been breached.

Mr Kampyongo: What has been breached is the standard practice of this institution.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: By whom? Who has –

Mr Kampyongo: I do not want you to engage me. So, give me chance.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I am saying –

Mr Kampyongo: Give me chance to explain in the spirit of fairness. I am also a long-serving Member of this august House. I have been here for more than twelve years like my colleague who just raised a point of order.

Mr Speaker, the standard practice is that when a Motion is moved by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Development, it is debated by Backbenchers first. When issues are raised, hon. Members in the Frontbench have to take note and respond for their sector ministries. So, why should we start changing the practice and the rules? In all fairness, we need fairness from the Chair, in which you are seated.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

May you resume your seat.

Let me guide. You have been here long enough, as you said, and you know very well –

Mr Kampyongo: I just want fairness.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Whichever way you look at it, you know that you cannot engage the Presiding Officer or raise a point of order on the Chair. That has been the practice, and that is the rule. If you feel that there is some treatment that you have been unfairly subjected to, you have been here long enough to know there is a standard procedure you can use to air your grievance instead of engaging me. This is contemptuous, that is what the Standing Orders say. We are guided by the rules, and you know them since, as you said, you have been here long. Bringing the Presiding Officer into disrepute is contemptuous of the House.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I am not engaging you. So, let us conduct business according to the rules.

Hon. Minister, as for your point order, you should have raised it immediately the breach was committed, though our rules do not allow raising a point of order on another point of order.

May the hon. Member who was on the Floor continue.

Mr Amutike: Mr Speaker, before I was disturbed, I was saying that the people of the Copperbelt Province are very excited. Some towns on the Copperbelt Province were dead because of a lack of employment. There were no jobs because mines were closed. However, under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, his Cabinet and hon. Members of Parliament, the Copperbelt Province is becoming a hub of economic activities. Many companies are going into the mining industry, which will increase mining production and enable us to meet our mining targets. I am sure, Hon. Kabuswe is very happy about that.

Mr Speaker, the tourism industry is one area in which the New Dawn Government is making tremendous achievements. The economy of Botswana was anchored on tourism until the discovery of diamond, fifteen years ago. We heard the figures that were pronounced by the hon. Minister. Under the New Dawn Government, there has been an increase in the number of tourists coming to Zambia, and we want to see more people visit Liuwa National Park. When the road from Lusaka to Mongu that was announced in the Budget is worked on, I am very sure that we will achieve that. We know that an airport is being constructed in Kasama, and I know that one will also be constructed in Mongu, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Amutike: ... and that will help enhance tourism in this country.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mongu Central are very excited about the Budget because a lot is going to be achieved. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a game changer. For the first time, a Member of Parliament is able to supervise over sixty capital projects because of the increase in the CDF allocation. In view of the K2 million that has been added, making the CDF K30.6 million, I am very sure that every constituency will have a lot to showcase in terms of projects that will be implemented.

Mr Speaker, in Mongu Central, there is a ward called Namasho. Since 1964, no school or clinic has been built in that ward. I was in Mongu over a week ago, and found that 1 x 3 classroom blocks have been built, and that means a new school has been built under the leadership of His Excellency the President. The children of the people in Namasho Ward will no longer be fishermen, as they will end up being Members of Parliament because they now have an opportunity to go to school.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Amutike: Mr Speaker, I meet many farmers from Kalumwange who were made redundant because of the low price of maize. In view of the simple act of increasing the cost of a bag of maize, many farmers are flocking back into farming. That is what we want to see, and what will lower the cost of mealie meal. We will not lower the cost of mealie meal by chasing away farmers from farming. We will not say abracadabra to lower the price of mealie meal. Things must be done in a logical, methodical and meticulous way. That is what we are trying to do.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Amutike: Mr Speaker, the people of Mongu Central are very happy with the Budget that was presented in this House.

Mr Speaker, I am being told by my neighbour from Luena that even the people of Luena are very excited about it, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Even Mwandi!

Mr Amutike: … as are the people of Mwandi.

Mr Speaker, we know that it is not only the Mongu/Lusaka road that will be worked on in the Western Province. I spoke to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, and he assured me that more road projects will be implemented in the province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Amutike: Mr Speaker, as we have heard, the Government is not only implementing projects through the Budget, but also through public-private partnerships (PPPs). So, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will make many pronouncements on road infrastructure and schools that are going to be built in the Western Province. I know that the hon. Minister of Education will soon launch a state-of-the-art high school in Mongu Central.

Ms Sefulo: Wow!

Mr Amutike: It will be the best school to have ever been built in the Western Province.

Ms Sefulo: Wow!

Mr Amutike: That will be done under the New Dawn Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Wow!

Mr Amutike: Many communication towers will also be erected.

Hon. UPND Members: Wow!

Mr Amutike: Telecommunication is going to be enhanced so that people can learn to communicate and do business digitally. Digital platforms are going to be enhanced in this country so that we can do business better. So, the hon. Minister of Technology and Science is ensuring that the people of the Western Province are not left behind, but are part of the development that is happening in this country under the New Dawn Government. The New Dawn Government is not leaving anybody behind. It is carrying everybody along, including those from Shiwang’andu.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Amutike: It is carrying them along to ensure that they, too, receive development, as will the people of Isoka.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Amutike: With those few words, Mr Speaker, let me leave ten seconds for my colleague from Luena.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, our Standing Orders are very clear in providing that one is supposed to speak when one is called upon by the Presiding Officer. The House is supposed to be quiet and only the person on the Floor is supposed to speak. However, are some hon. Members, like my sister, ‘Hon. Iris,’ oh, the hon. Member for Mwandi, …

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: …and the hon. Minister in order to make noise instead of thinking of how to deliver a road in Kaputa?

Ms Sefulo: I saved you.

Mr J. E. Banda: I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker, in the voice of Mitete.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you have debated your point of order adequately.

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the chance to contribute to the debate on the Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker, what is interesting in this House is the fact that some people raise their tempers, but the moment they go outside, they humble themselves. So, I urge hon. Members to not mislead Zambians. When we are debating here, people see the tempers but, when we go outside, people are hugging. So, this is not –

Mr Speaker, I would like to start by commending the Government of the Republic of Zambia for the systematic way in which it is governing this country. According to the law, the President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should deliver speeches in Parliament and the two speeches have to be debated. Otherwise, looking at the manner in which things are happening –

Interruptions

Mr Chinkuli: Mr Speaker, I cannot continue like this. There is too much mumbling here and there.

Mr Speaker, I was saying that I commend the Government for the systematic way in which it is governing this country. According to the law, every time the President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning address Parliament, we need to debate the speeches they deliver. However, I think, the Government is doing way more than what we are debating here, and that is my opinion. Why am I saying so? When we look at the speech delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, we discover that there are many areas that were pointed out where we need to put our economy on the right trajectory.

Mr Speaker, foreign investment is one of the key drivers for economic growth and development of the country. We need to have a strategy for foreign investment so that when investors come into the country, they find that everything is in place. How do we motivate investors? Firstly, we need to build strong relationships with the outside world. Secondly, we need to offer incentives, and the hon. Minister said that those who are going to invest in the country will be given specific incentives.

Mr Speaker, the other issue I want to talk about is corruption. We need to have a corruption-free environment because investors would not want to invest where corruption is rife. A number of people have been counting the number of times the President has gone outside the country, but I do not know whether that is because of a lack of understanding. This is because that is the only way we can manage to have international relations with other countries out there. The President has been going to other countries not for leisure, but to explain the potential of the country to those who would want to do business in Zambia. So, basically, that is what the President has been doing, and I recommend that he continues going out until we get what Zambia wants to get.

Mr Speaker, the second issue I want to talk about is –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

The House adjourned at 1841 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 4^th October, 2023.

____________