Tuesday, 7th November, 2023

Tuesday, 7^thNovember, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF STUDENTS FROM EVELYN HONE COLLEGE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of students from Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce Management Board under Human Resource and Public Administration, Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

LAUNCH OF ADVOCACY STRATEGY ON LIFE SKILLS AND HEALTH EDUCATION BY PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS ON SEXUAL AND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH AND RIGHTS

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Parliamentary Caucus on Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights will be launching its Advocacy Strategy on Life Skills and Health Education on Wednesday, 8^th November, 2023, at 1130 hours. The launch will take place in the Amphitheatre, here, at Parliament Main Buildings. All hon. Members of Parliament are encouraged to attend that important launch on a voluntary basis.

The launch will be characterised by a display of various products and services by different civil society organisations (CSOs) that will mount booths, stands or tents for their displays. Hon. Members of Parliament are encouraged to sample the products and services and identify opportunities for collaboration in promoting the priorities of the strategy in their constituencies.

I thank you.

SESSIONAL COMMITTEES MEMBERSHIP

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 166(5), I have made changes to the composition of four Committees as follows:

HOUSE-KEEPING COMMITTEES

Standing Orders Committee

Hon. Robert Chabinga to replace Hon. Brian Mundubile

Hon. Anthony Mumba to replace Hon. Stephen Kampyongo

House Business Committee

Hon. Robert Chabinga to replace Hon. Brian Mundubile

Hon. Anthony Mumba to replace Hon. Stephen Kampyongo

Hon. Jeffrey Mulebwato to replace Hon. Jay E. Banda

GENERAL PURPOSES COMMITTEES

Committee on Government Assurances

Hon. Brian Mundubile to replace Hon. Robert Chabinga

Committee on Parastatal Bodies

Hon. Brian Mundubile to replace Hon. Robert Chabinga

I thank you.

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RULINGS BY MADAM SPEAKER

REPRIMAND OF HON. KONG’OMBE, HON. MEMBER AND OTHER PATRIOTIC FRONT HON. MEMBERS AND SOME INDEPENDENT HON. MEMBERS

Madam Speaker: I notice Hon. C. C. Kang’ombe, Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, is not in the House, but I will proceed.

I also order the following Patriotic Front (PF) Party and Independent hon. Members of Parliament to stand by their seats:

Mr Brian M Mundubile, MP

Ms Brenda Nyirenda, MP

Mr Mulenga F. Fube, MP

Mr Munir Zulu, MP

Mr Emmanuel Tembo, MP

Mr Binwell Mpundu, MP

Ms Kampamba S. Mulenga, MP

Ms Jean N.Chisenga, MP

Ms Maureen Mabonga, MP

Mr Luka Simumba, MP

Mr George Chisanga, MP

Mr Davies Chisopa, MP

Ms Melesiana Phiri, MP

Mr Stephen Kampyongo, MP

Ms Tasila Lungu, MP

Mr J. E. Banda, MP

The House may wish to note that Mr Jay E. Banda, hon. Member of Parliament, is currently serving a fourteen-day suspension and is, therefore, not in the House. There are also some hon. Members who are not here, but I will proceed to render my ruling. The hon. Members who are not in the House will listen to the ruling on the radio or television.

Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Wednesday, 1^st November, 2023, when the House had just resumed its Sitting after the disruption of proceedings that had occurred, Hon. M. Anakoka, Member of Parliament for Luena Constituency, raised a point of order. In his point of order, he enquired whether some Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members and Independent hon. Members of Parliament were in order to misconduct themselves in the House when they incited Hon. C. C. Kang’ombe to defy an order of the Hon. Madam Speaker to leave the House. The point of order was premised on Order 205(a) and (c) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021.

Hon. Members, in my immediate response –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Members, in my immediate response, I first ordered Hon. C. C. Kang’ombe, to leave the Chamber in line with my earlier order to him. I, then, reserved my ruling. I have studied the matter and now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, the background to this matter is that on Wednesday, 1^st November, 2023, while Hon. Kang’ombe was raising a matter of urgent public importance, he made reference to Article 60(2) (e) of the Constitution, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia. He also made reference to provisions of the PF constitution. In ruling on his matter of urgent public importance, I guided Hon. Kang’ombe on the mandate of the House, which is to provide oversight, legislate, approve the Budget and represent constituencies. I further informed him that the House did not have the jurisdiction to interpret the law, as that was the mandate of the courts of law. I, therefore, advised him to seek relief from the courts. In total defiance of my guidance, Hon. Kang’ombe insisted on his position and accused me of depriving him of an opportunity to speak, while shouting and pointing a finger at me. I, then, rose from my seat to interrupt debate and ordered him to leave the House. However, in defiance of my order, he again, refused to leave the House. Subsequently, several hon. Members of Parliament from the PF and some Independent hon. Members of Parliament moved from their various seats and others, while standing by their seats, encouraged Hon. Kang’ombe to defy my order to leave the House. Further, the said hon. Members of Parliament contributed to the disturbance of the proceedings of the House, which ultimately prompted me to suspend the Business of the House.

Hon. Members, the point of order raises the following issues:

a Member defying a ruling or directive of a Presiding Officer;

a Member causing obstruction or disturbance within the precincts of the Assembly Chamber during a Sitting of the Assembly or its Committee; and

a Member creating or joining in any disturbance that interrupts or is likely to interrupt the proceedings of the Assembly or its Committee.

Hon. Members, the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia provides guidance on these issues. In that regard, Section 19(c) provides as follows:

“19. Any person shall be guilty of an offence who –

causes an obstruction or disturbance within the precincts of the Assembly Chamber during a sitting of the Assembly or of a committee thereof.”

In addition, Section 25(f) of the Act provides as follows:

“25. Any person who –

creates or joins in any disturbance which interrupts or is likely to interrupt the proceedings of the Assembly while it is sitting;

shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding five thousand penalty units or to imprisonment with or without hard labour for a term not exceeding twelve months, or to both.”

Further, Order No. 205(a) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, provides as follows:

“205. Gross disorderly conduct

A member commits an act of gross disorderly conduct if the member –

defies a ruling or direction of a Presiding Officer;”

Furthermore, eminent authors on parliamentary practice and procedure, M. N. Kaul and S. L. Shakdher, in their book entitled Practice and Procedure of Parliament, Seventh Edition (New Delhi, Lok Sabha, 2016), on page 303, state as follows:

“Disobedience to the orders of the House, whether such orders are of general application or require a particular individual to do or abstain from doing a particular act is a contempt of the House. Disobedience to the orders of a Committee of the House is treated as a contempt of the House itself, provided the order disobeyed is within the scope of the Committee’s authority. To prevent, delay, obstruct or interfere with the execution of the orders of the House or a Committee thereof is also a contempt of the House. Examples of contempt are –

… neglecting or refusing to withdraw from the House when directed to do so.”

From the foregoing authorities, it is evident that a Member who causes or participates in a disturbance of the proceedings of the House commits an offence or a contempt of the House. Further, it is clear that a Member who defies a ruling or directive of a Presiding Officer commits an act of gross disorderly conduct.

In line with parliamentary practice and procedure and the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk wrote to all the identified hon. Members requesting them to explain why they should not be found in breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House for participating in inciting a Member to defy an order of the Hon. Madam Speaker.

Responses from the Identified Hon. Members of Parliament

Hon. Members, to ascertain which hon. Members participated in the protest, I had recourse to a list compiled by the Office of the Clerk. The PF and Independent hon. Members identified as having participated in the protest were twenty-one.

Hon. Members, of the twenty-one hon. Members who responded, sixteen requested that the Office of the Clerk availed them the relevant Parliament Television footage to enable them to respond effectively. I find this to be a lame excuse, insufficient to absolve them of the complaint against them. Five hon. Members responded with an explanation as set out below:

Hon. C. Chibuye

He denied participating in the misconduct and disruption of proceedings in the House. He explained that during the time the proceedings of the House were disrupted, he was in his designated seat in the House.

Hon. Chibombwe

He denied participating in the misconduct that disrupted the proceedings of the House. He stated that he was seated next to the hon. Member of Parliament for Mkushi North during the time the proceedings of the House were disrupted. He further stated that he had moved from his seat to sit next to the hon. Member of Parliament for Mkushi North before Hon. Kang’ombe rose to speak.

Hon. P. Phiri

He denied participating in the misconduct that disrupted the proceedings of the House. He stated that he was seated in his designated seat, but later walked out of the House.

Hon. A. Kasandwe

He denied participating in the misconduct that disrupted the proceedings of the House. He stated that he only walked into the House when the proceedings of the House had already been suspended.

Hon. Allen Banda

He denied participating in the misconduct that disrupted the proceedings of the House. He stated that he was seated on his designated seat and left the House a few minutes after the disruption of proceedings in the House.

Hon. Members, while the list compiled by the Office of the Clerk included Hon. C. Chibuye, Hon. L. Chibombwe, Hon. P. Phiri, Hon. A. Kasandweand Hon. Allen Banda, a thorough review of the video footage revealed that, indeed, they did not participate in the disruption of the proceedings of the House. In that regard, I am satisfied that Hon. C. Chibuye, Hon. L. Chibombwe, Hon. P. Phiri, Hon. A. Kasandwe and Hon. Allen Banda did not participate in the misconduct that disrupted the proceedings of the House and, consequently, I disjoin them from this matter.

I now wish to address the House on the alleged misconduct.

a Member defying a ruling or direction of a Presiding Officer commits an act of gross disorderly conduct. While parliamentary practice and procedure permits hon. Members to protest, the acceptable way of doing so is through walk-outs. A walk-out is where Members leave the Chamber or a Committee in protest without disrupting the Business of the House.

The erstwhile Speaker, Rt. Hon. Justice Dr Patrick Matibini, SC., addressed the issue of walk-outs on several occasions. In his ruling on a point of order raised by the then Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon H. Kalaba, on hon. Members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) who walked out of the House on Friday, 27^th November, 2015 (National Assembly Parliamentary Debates of 18^th September – 10^th December, 2015, pages 3282 – 3284), he stated, inter alia, at pages 3283 and 3284, as follows:

“Walk-outs, per se, do not amount to a breach of the rules of the House or, indeed, parliamentary practice and procedure. In view of this, the Hon. Members of the UPND were not out of order to have walked out of the House.”

Hon. Members, in the matter under consideration, Hon. Kang’ombe did not walk out of the Chamber but, instead, opted to defy my order to him to leave the House. Further, he continuously and directly engaged me on the issue of being ordered to leave. The other PF hon. Members and some Independent hon. Members also defied the order by encouraging him. The hon. Members encouraged him to remain in the House while others prevented the Serjeant-At-Arms from escorting Hon. Kang’ombefrom leaving the Chamber.

a Member causing, creating or joining in an obstruction or disturbance within the precincts of the Assembly Chamber during a Sitting of the Assembly or its Committee commits an act of gross disorderly conduct and is guilty of contempt of the House.

I had occasion to rule on a similar matter in the case of Hon G. G. Nkombo, Member of Parliament and Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, on PF hon. Members and Independent Members, on whether they were in order to misconduct themselves in the House (National Assembly Daily Parliamentary Debates of Tuesday, 15^th March, 2022). In that case, on Tuesday, 30^thNovember, 2021, when the Leader of Government Business in the House presented the policy statement for Vote 01, State House, the then Leader of the Opposition, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Member of Parliament, informed the House that the Yellow Book showed that the mandate of the Republican President to discharge Constitutional function was derived from repealed and replaced constitutional provisions. He, thus, stated that there was a need to amend the Yellow Book before hon. Members could debate the Vote. Upon being guided by the Second Deputy Speaker, sitting as Chairperson of the Committee of the Whole House, that that was a typographical error which would be corrected during approval of individual heads, Hon. B. M. Mundubile rose and informed the House that he, together with other PF hon. Members and some Independent hon. Members would proceed to protest to ensure that they were not party to the illegality. Thirty Members of Parliament from the PF then converged in front of the Speaker’s Mace, thereby disrupting the proceedings of the House. When the situation escalated, the Presiding Officer was compelled to suspend business for twenty minutes, thereby, occasioning a disruption of business.

The Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker, subsequently, found the thirty PF and some Independent hon. Members of Parliament to have breached parliamentary privileges and committed contempt of the House when they protested in the Assembly Chamber. Subsequently, they were suspended for a period of thirty days. In that case, I gave guidance that while parliamentary practice and procedure permits Members to protest, the acceptable way of doing that is through walk-outs. A walk-out is where hon. Members leave the Assembly Chamber or a Committee in protest without disrupting the Business of the House.

Hon. Members, in the present case, the hon. Members did not walk out of the Assembly Chamber, but, instead, converged around Hon. Kang’ombe. That conduct ultimately resulted in a disturbance and the disruption of the Business of the House. In that regard, I suspended the Business of the House.

Hon. Members, the conduct of debates in Parliament is regulated by ancient conventions in order to protect decorum and dignity in the House. Erskine May’s ancient text is our cardinal reference point in terms of regulating internal proceedings of the House. Under these ancient conventions and powers and privileges legislation, no point of order can be raised against the Hon. Speaker or any Presiding Officer. Secondly, once the Speaker or Presiding Officer calls the House to order, all hon. Members of Parliament must resume their seats. Defying or challenging the Speaker’s ruling is an affront to the authority and dignity of the House. So, freedom of speech, protection of the minority and internal democracy does not extend to lawlessness, misguided militancy and affrontery. Lawlessness is not equal to freedom of expression. Deliberately defying the Speaker or any Presiding Officer is not only an affront to the Speaker but also an assault or attack on our constitutional democracy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I, therefore, find Hon. Kang’ombe and the sixteen hon. Members of Parliament who participated in the protest in the Assembly Chamber in breach of parliamentary privileges and in contempt of the House.

Hon. Members, I now wish to consider the sanctions to mete out on the sixteen erring hon. Members of the Parliament. I note that some are first offenders while others are repeat offenders. I also note that the gravity of the offence committed is such that it caused the disruption of the proceedings of the House. Additionally, the hon. Members, in their responses, were not apologetic or remorseful for their conduct. In view of this, I wish to invoke the provisions of Section 28(2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which provides for the penalty of suspension as follows:

“28(2) Where a member is found to have committed contempt of the Assembly of a serious nature and none of the other penalties are sufficient for the contempt committed by the member, the Speaker shall, on the resolution of the Assembly, suspend the member from the Assembly for a period not exceeding thirty days”.

I now turn to address Hon. Kangombe in absentia and the sixteen hon. Members, some of whom are also not present.

The House is extremely displeased with your gross misconduct of defying an order of the Presiding Officer, and creating, joining and causing a disturbance in the Chamber, thereby disrupting the proceedings of the House. The dishonourable conduct diminishes the respect due to you as hon. Members of this august House. This is a House of honour, decorum and dignity, and as such, your conduct ought to be exemplary and above reproach. I wish to make it clear that I will not tolerate any gross indiscipline and misconduct from you or any hon. Member of this House. The honour, decorum, integrity and dignity of the House must be protected and preserved. I do trust that you will reflect seriously on your conduct and, in future, refrain from conduct unbefitting of a Member of Parliament.

Hon Members, in accordance with Section 28(2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which requires a resolution of the House to suspend an hon. Member from the House, I now put the Question:

Question that this House suspends Hon. C.C. Kangombe, MP, and the sixteen hon. Members of Parliament who participated in the protest in the Assembly Chamber on Wednesday, 1^st November, 2023, for a period of thirty days put and agreed to.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the suspension is with effect from today, Tuesday, 7^th November, to Wednesday, 6^th December, 2023. However, with regard to Mr J. E. Banda, who is currently on fourteen days suspension, the suspension is with effect from Saturday, 25^th November, to Sunday, 24^th December, 2023.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, before you take the walk of shame, I wish to inform you that in accordance with Section 28(3) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, during the period of your suspension, you shall not:

enter the precincts of the Assembly, and this extends to the National Assembly Motel;

participate in an activity of the Assembly or any committee that you are assigned to in your capacity as Member of Parliament; and

be paid the salary or allowance that you are entitled to as hon Members.

I now order you, the suspended hon. Members of Parliament, to immediately leave the Assembly Chamber through the Main Entrance on thirty days suspension.

I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The suspended hon. Members left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam Speaker: I said that I have three rulings to render.

ON A POINT OF ORDER RAISED ON TUESDAY, 3^RD OCTOBER, 2023, AND COMPLAINT FILED BY HON. C. MWEETWA, MP, MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND MEDIA, ON MR B. M. MUNDUBILE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MPOROKOSO CONSTITUENCY; HON. S. KAMPYONGO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SHIWANG’ANDU CONSTITUENCY; HON. K. MUKOSA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHINSALI CONSTITUENCY; AND HON. M. FUBE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHILUBI CONSTITUENCY, ON THEIR ALLEGED GROSS DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND BREACH OF PARLIAMENTARY DECORUM AND ETIQUETTE ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE ON 3^RD OCTOBER, 2023

Madam Speaker: I take note, again, that Hon. K. Mukosa, Member of Parliament for Chinsali Constituency, is not in the House, but we will proceed.

Hon. Members, I have a ruling to render against Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Member of Parliament for Mporokoso Constituency; Hon. S. Kampyongo, Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu Constituency; and Hon. K. Mukosa, Member of Parliament for Chinsali Constituency, who were found in breach of parliamentary privileges and contempt of the House on a point of order raised on Tuesday, 3^rd October, 2023, and a complaint filed by Hon. C. Mweetwa, Member of Parliament and Minister of information and Media.

As per our practice and procedure, a Member who is found in breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House is required to be present in the House when the ruling is delivered. In that regard, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa were contacted by the Office of the Clerk to remind them to be present in the House today, Tuesday –

Mr Mukosa stood at the Assembly Chamber entrance.

Madam Speaker: Is that Hon. Mukosa?

Hon. Members: Yes!

Madam Speaker: Then you can come in. Take your seat then we start all over.

Mr Mukosa took his seat.

Madam Speaker: Now that you are in the House, I order you, Hon. K. Mukosa, Member of Parliament for Chinsali Constituency, to go and stand behind the Bar of the House.

I also instruct the Serjeant-At-Arms to take the Speaker’s Mace and stand behind the hon. Member.

Mr Mukosa stood behind the Bar of the House and the Sergeant-At-Arms with the Speakers Mace stood behind Mr Mukosa.

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, before I proceed, I wish to inform the House that this ruling is against Hon. K. Mukosa, Hon. B. M. Mundubile and Hon. S. Kampyongo. However, since Hon. Mundubile and Hon. Kampyongo have just been suspended, they are not in the House.

Hon Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 3^rd October, 2023, when the House was considering the Motion of Supply on the 2024 National Budget, and Mr B. Mpundu, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana Constituency was debating, Hon. C. Mweetwa, Minister of Information and Media, raised a point of order on Hon. B. M. Mundubile, then Leader of the Opposition and PF hon. Member of Parliament. In his point of order, Hon. C. Mweetwa, inquired whether the hon. Members were in order to have violated the rules of the House by rising without being granted the Floor by the Presiding Officer and thereafter, engaging in an argument with the Presiding Officer and not resuming their seats when the Presiding Officer was addressing them. In his immediate response, the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker reserved his ruling in order to study the matter. Additionally, on Wednesday, 4^th October, 2023, the Office of the Speaker received a letter of complaint from Hon. C. Mweetwa. In his complaint, he clarified that the PF party hon. Members of Parliament he had referred to in his point of order of Tuesday, 3^rd October, 2023, were Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo, Hon. K. Mukosa and Hon. M. F. Fube. Hon C. Mweetwa stated that their conduct was a breach of Orders Nos. 203(1) and (2), 204(1) and (205) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021. He, thus, requested the Speaker and the House to address the alleged misconduct, as it had the potential to undermine the decorum and repute of the House.

Hon Members, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and in accordance with the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. Mr S. Kampyongo, Hon. K. Mukosa and Hon. M. F. Fube requesting them to state their side of the story. Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa, in their letters of response denied the allegations as contained in the letter of complaint by Hon. C. Mweetwa. They, instead, alleged that the incidence occurred due to the Presiding Officer’s partiality when he admitted Hon. C. Mweetwa’s point of order, against his earlier guidance that he would not admit any points of order. They also contended that the point of order raised by Hon. C. Mweetwa ought not to have been admitted, as he had not cited the Standing Order that had been breached. Further, they argued that the complaint was inadmissible, as it was premised on a point of order raised on Tuesday, 3^rd October, 2023, whose ruling was still pending. Further, Hon. K. Mukosa indicated that it was not his intention to argue with the Presiding Officer and that he was merely advising Hon. P. C. Kabuswe, the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, to change his line of debate after he had belittled Hon. B. Mpundu during his debate. Hon. M. F. Fube denied all the allegations levelled against him.

Hon. Members, I have studied the matter and I now render my ruling.

The point of order and complaint by Hon. C. Mweetwa raises the issue of a Member exhibiting gross disorderly conduct on the Floor of the House and showing disrespect to a Presiding Officer. Hon Members, the authorities on this matter are as follows:

The National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia is instructive on the conduct of hon. Members in the precincts of the National Assembly. In particular, Section 19(d) provides as follows:

“19. Any person shall be guilty of an offence who –

(d) shows disrespect in speech or manner towards the Speaker.”

Additionally, Order No. 203(1) and (2) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, provides that:

“203. (1) A member shall at all times conduct himself or herself in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity and decorum of the House.

(2) A member shall not act in a manner that brings the House or other members generally into disrepute.”

Further, Order 204(1) and (2)(g), (h), (u) and (x), amongst others, set out the rules of parliamentary decorum and etiquette as follows:

“204 Parliamentary Decorum and Etiquette

(1) Parliamentary decorum and etiquette refer to an essential standard of behaviour that a member must observe in the House in order to maintain the dignity and decency of the House.

(2) A member shall observe the following rules of parliamentary etiquette:

(g) a member shall listen in silence to the debates in the House;

(h) a member shall not obstruct, interrupt proceedings or make disruptive running commentaries when another member is speaking;

(u) a member shall resume his or her seat as soon as the Presiding Officer rises to speak or calls out 'order' or “a point of order is raised”; and

(x) a member shall not argue with another member who is debating. The member may, however, wait for his or her turn to rebut or contribute to the debate.”

Furthermore, Standing Order No. 205 sets out the circumstances that amount to gross disorderly conduct in the precincts of the National Assembly. Standing Order No. 205(a) provides as follows:

“205. A member commits an act of gross disorderly conduct if the member –

defies a ruling or direction of a Presiding Officer;

(i) acts in any other way to the serious detriment of the dignity or orderly procedure of the House.”

Hon Members, in order to ascertain what transpired on the material date, I had recourse to the verbatim record and the video footage of the Parliamentary proceedings of Tuesday, 3^rd October, 2023. The records revealed the following:

when the Hon Mr Second Deputy Speaker was guiding Hon. B. Mpundu to ensure that his debate was factual so that he did not mislead the public at large, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa kept interjecting him and debating while seated;

while Hon. B. Mpundu was debating, Hon. B. M. Mundubile indicated that he wished to raise a point of order, but his point of order was not recognised by the Presiding Officer. However, when the Presiding Officer accorded Hon C. M. Mweetwa an opportunity to raise a point of order, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa rose to protest. When the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker asked them to resume their seats, they defied his directive;
when Hon. B. M. Mundubile was addressed and directed to resume his seat, he blatantly refused to do so. He instead engaged in an argument with the Presiding Officer, demanding that since he had raised a point of order before Hon. C. Mweetwa, he would only resume his seat once Hon. C. Mweetwa had resumed his seat; and
upon resuming their seats, Hon. B. M. Mundubile continued debating while seated, prompting the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker to ask him to leave the Assembly Chamber.

Hon Members, I also, note from the verbatim record that during the interruptions, Hon. K. Mukosa used a particularly offensive and provocative word. As a result, the Presiding Officer cautioned him to desist from using such language on the Floor of the House. I further note that the verbatim record and video footage does not capture Hon. M. F. Fube, as alleged in the complaint.

Hon Members, I have guided, in a plethora of rulings, that when raising a point of order, it is a mandatory requirement under Standing Order No. 131(3) for an hon. Member to cite the Standing Order, law on privilege of Members, or rule of procedure or practice that has allegedly been breached. Where an hon. Member fails or does not adequately do so, the Presiding Officer may rule that the point of order is inadmissible.

Hon Members, ordinarily, the point of order raised by Hon. C. Mweetwa should not have been sustained because the hon. Minister did not cite the Standing Order that had been breached. However, in addition to his point of order, Hon. C. Mweetwa filed a complaint the following day, on Wednesday, 4^th October, 2023, in which he cited the provisions of the Standing Orders that had been breached in order to clarify the point of order.

Hon Members, it is noteworthy that an hon. Member may file a complaint in addition to a point of order previously raised to clarify matters like Hon. C. Mweetwa did and not to raise a new matter. For this reason, I will still proceed to state my findings on this matter.

Hon Members, in the instant case, Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa rose in protest when the Presiding Officer accorded Hon. C. Mweetwa an opportunity to raise a point of order. They further defied the directive of the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker to resume their seats. Instead, they engaged in an argument with the Presiding Officer. Even after resuming their seats, Hon. B. M. Mundubile continued debating while seated. The hon. Members have explained that their protests were prompted by the alleged bias exhibited by the Presiding Officer in refusing to admit their points of order ahead of Hon. C. Mweetwa’s point of order. That being the case, hon. Members, the aggrieved hon. Members had the option of evoking the procedure outlined in Standing Order No. 226 on challenging a decision of a Presiding Officer.

Hon Members, the conduct of Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa was disorderly and disrespectful to the Presiding Officer, and amounted to a breach of Section 19(d) of the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act and Standing Orders Nos. 203(1) and (2), 204(1) and (2)(g) (h) and (u), and 205(a). Further, hon. Members, the use of offensive, provocative, insulting or threatening language is unparliamentary, and thus, prohibited under Standing Orders Nos. 66(1) and (2). I, therefore, find that Hon. K. Mukosa’s use of a vernacular provocative and insulting word during the proceedings was unparliamentary and a breach of Standing Orders Nos. 66(1) and (2).

Hon Members, as earlier noted, the verbatim record and video footage did not capture Hon. M. F. Fube as alleged in the complaint. In this regard, Hon. M. Fube was not in breach of the Standing Orders cited and, consequently,is found to not have been out of order.

Hon Members, the conduct exhibited by Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S. Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa is very serious. In that regard, in sanctioning the three erring hon. Members of Parliament, I note the circumstances that led to the breach. Therefore, I am compelled to exercise leniency in sanctioning them. However, I also note the gravity of the offence committed. In addition, the hon. Members, in their responses, were not apologetic or remorseful for their conduct. In view of this, I wish to invoke the provisions of Section 28(2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which provides as follows:

“28 (2) Where a Member is found to have committed contempt of the Assembly of a serious nature and none of the other penalties are sufficient for the contempt committed by the member, the Speaker shall, on the resolution of the Assembly, suspend the member from the Assembly for a period not exceeding thirty days”.

I now turn to address Hon. K. Mukosa, and Hon. B. M. Mundubile and Hon. S. Kampyongo in absentia.

Hon. Members, the House is extremely displeased with your misconduct of showing intentional disrespect to the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker. As senior hon. Members of this House, you know the procedure to follow if you are dissatisfied with a decision of a Presiding Officer. Your conduct of disrespecting and undermining the directive of the Presiding Officer lowered the honour, decorum, integrity and dignity of the House, which must always be protected and conserved. I do trust that you will reflect seriously on your conduct and, in future, refrain from conduct unbefitting a Member of Parliament.

Question that the House suspends Hon. B. M. Mundubile, Hon. S Kampyongo and Hon. K. Mukosa for a period of seven days for gross disorderly conduct and showing disrespect to the Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker while in the Assembly Chamber on Tuesday, 3^rd October, 2023, put and agreed to.

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, with regard to Hon. K. Mukosa, the suspension is with effect from today, Tuesday, 7^th , to Monday, 13^th November, 2023. However, with regard to Hon. B. M. Mundubile and Hon. S. Kampyongo who are serving a thirty day suspension, their suspension is with effect from Thursday, 7^th , to Wednesday, 13^th December, 2023.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon Member, before you take the walk of shame, I wish to inform you that in accordance with Section 28(3) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, during the period of your suspension, you shall not:

enter the precincts of the Assembly, and this extends to the National Assembly Motel;

participate in an activity of the Assembly or any Committee that you are assigned to in your capacity as Member of Parliament; and

be paid the salary or allowance that you are entitled to as a Member.

I now order you, Hon. K Mukos, to immediately leave the Assembly Chamber through the Main Entrance on seven days suspension.

I thank you.

Mr Mukosa left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Chanda entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Member: Pa mupando!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.

I now render my last ruling.

COMPLAINT BY HON. C. ANDELEKI, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KATOMBOLA CONSTITUENCY, AGAINST HON. M. KAFWAYA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUNTE CONSTITUENCY, ON HIS ALLEGED MISCONDUCT ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE ON THURSDAY, 5^THOCTOBER, 2023

Hon Members, I have a ruling to render against Hon. M. Kafwaya, Member of Parliament for Lunte Constituency, who was found in breach of parliamentary privilege and in contempt of the House on a complaint by Hon. C. Andeleki, Member of Parliament for Katombola Constituency. As per our practice and procedure, a Member who is found in breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House is required to be present in the House when the ruling is being delivered. In that regard, Hon. M. Kafwaya was contacted by the Office of the Clerk to remind him to be present in the House today, Tuesday, 7^th November, 2023. However, Hon. M. Kafwaya elected to absent himself from the House. I will, nonetheless, proceed to render my ruling.

Hon Members, on Thursday, 5^th October, 2023, my office received a letter of complaint from Hon. C. Andeleki against Hon. M. Kafwaya, Member of Parliament for Lunte Constituency. In his letter, Hon. C. Andeleki alleged that Hon. M. Kafwaya had conducted himself in a disorderly manner on the Floor of the House and had been disrespectful to the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker. He stated that Hon. M. Kafwaya rose without being permitted to do so by the Presiding Officer and threatened her while pointing a finger at her. Further, he alleged that after being ordered to leave the Assembly Chamber, Hon. M. Kafwaya did not exit through the nearest door but, instead, he passed in front of the Speaker’s Mace whilst pointing a finger and making threats to Hon. S. Kakubo, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation. He concluded his letter by stating that Hon. M. Kafwaya’s conduct had not only breached practice, but also contravened the privileges of hon. Members contained in the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021.

In line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and in accordance with the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk wrote to Hon. M. Kafwaya requesting him to state his side of the story on the complaint. In response, Hon. M. Kafwaya denied the allegations against him, and contended that Hon. C. Andeleki had deliberately miscomprehended what transpired on the material date. His response can be summarised as follows:

that at no time did he point a finger at the Presiding Officer. Instead, he was pointing in the direction of Hon. S. Kakubo while complaining to the Presiding Officer about the hon. Minister;

he did not refuse to leave the Assembly Chamber, but did so without any form of resistance;

he did not see the Speaker’s Mace as he left the House;

he did not threaten the hon. Minister as he walked past the row in which the hon. Minister was seated. Instead, he pointed at the hon. Minister and told him that he had caused his ejection from the House; and
he wanted to reach the elevator as quickly as possible and, as such, he used the exit that was nearest to the elevator.

Hon Members, the complaint by Hon. C. Andeleki raises the following issues:

a Member exhibiting disorderly conduct on the Floor of the House; and

a Member showing disrespect to the Presiding Officer.

Hon Members, I will address the issues raised seriatim.

A Member exhibiting disorderly conduct on the Floor of the House

The National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia, is instructive on this issue. It provides, in Section 19(d) and (e), as follows:

“19. Any person shall be guilty of an offence who –

(d) shows disrespect in speech or manner towards the Speaker; or

commits any other act of intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly or of a committee of the Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.”

Further, Standing Orders Nos. 203(1) and (2), 204(2) (h) and 205(a) and (i) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, provide as follows:

“203(1) A member shall at all times conduct himself or herself in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity and decorum of the House.

(2) A member shall not act in a manner that brings the House or other members generally into disrepute.”

“204(2) A member shall observe the following rules of parliamentary etiquette:

a member shall not obstruct, interrupt proceedings or make disruptive running commentaries when another member is speaking”;

“205. A member commits an act of gross disorderly conduct if the member:

(a) defies a ruling or direction of a presiding officer;

acts in any other way to the serious detriment of the dignity or orderly

procedure of the House;”

A Member Showing Disrespect to a Presiding Officer

Hon, Members, my predecessor had occasion to rule on a similar matter on the complaint by Hon. B. Mundubile, the then Government Chief Whip, against Hon. G. G. Nkombo on the latter’s disrespectful conduct towards the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker, Catherine Namugala, on Thursday, 19^th September, 2019 (National Assembly Daily Parliamentary Debates of Tuesday, 12^th November, 2019). In that case, Hon. G. G. Nkombo had openly disregarded the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker’s guidance on his request to be reinstated on the list of hon. Members to debate. Further, he had directly engaged the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker on the Floor of the House and also engaged Hon. Prof Nkandu Luo in disregard of the authority of the Presiding Officer. Additionally, he had showed disrespect to the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker by his failure to withdraw from the Chamber through the nearest door when he was ordered to leave. Instead, he had elected to walk around the Chamber whilst making utterances and pointing fingers.

Hon. Members, following a hearing conducted by the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, Hon. G. G. Nkombo was suspended from the House for ten days for exhibiting disorderly conduct in the House and showing disrespect to the Presiding Officer.

Hon. Members, I have since reviewed the verbatim record and the relevant video footage of the proceedings for that day as well as the letter of complaint, and established the following:

Hon. M. Kafwaya made disruptive running commentaries when Hon. S. Kakubo was on the Floor. He repeatedly referred to the hon. Minister’s response to a question as “nonsense”;

although Hon. M. Kafwaya alleged that when he was ordered to leave the House, he was so shocked that he lost energy in his legs and, consequently, went down on the bench, the video footage shows that he stood up after he was asked to leave the Assembly Chamber and repeatedly engaged the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker before resuming his seat;

after resuming his seat, Hon. M. Kafwaya continued to engage the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker. He only decided to leave the Chamber when the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker requested the Serjeant-At-Arms to assist him; and

Hon. M. Kafwaya admitted that he did not leave the Assembly Chamber through the nearest exit door, but justified his action by stating that he had failed to do so because he had lost energy due to what had been considered a double injustice. The video footage revealed that when he was ordered to leave the Assembly Chamber, he did not do so through the nearest door. Instead, he opted to pass in front of the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker’s Mace while pointing a finger at Hon. S. Kakubo.

Hon. Members, it is clear that Hon. M. Kafwaya misconducted himself in the House and, indeed, showed disrespect to the Presiding Officer. He continuously engaged the Presiding Officer despite being guided on the use of the word “nonsense”, thus showing disrespect to her. Further, when he was requested to leave the Assembly Chamber, instead of doing so quickly, he continued to engage the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker until she ordered the Serjeant-At-Arms to escort him out of the House. Lastly, instead of using the nearest exit to leave the Assembly Chamber, he opted to pass in front of the Hon. Speaker’s Mace and used the exit that was farthest from where he sat.

Hon. Members, the rules of the House on etiquette and decorum, including the Standing Order cited above, were formulated to maintain discipline, decorum and dignity in the House. Therefore, hon. Members are called upon to, at all times, conduct themselves in a manner that upholds the dignity and decorum of the House.

Hon. Members, considering the gravity of the offence committed by Hon. M. Kafwaya, I have in the exercise of my powers under Section 28(2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, decided to suspend Hon. M. Kafwaya from the service of the National Assembly for a period of seven days. Thus, in accordance with Section 28(2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which requires a resolution of the House to suspend a member from the House, I now put the question:

Question that the House suspends Hon. M. Kafwaya for a period of seven days with effect from, today, 7^th November, 2023, put and agreed to.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, although Hon. M. Kafwaya is not present in the House, I will proceed to address him.

Hon. M. Kafwaya, your exhibition of disorderly conduct and disrespect towards Hon. Malungo A. Chisangano, MP, First Deputy Speaker, is unbefitting an hon. Member of Parliament. Further, as a long-serving member of this august House, you ought to know that this is a House of honour, decorum and dignity and, as such, your conduct ought to be exemplary and above reproach. Ordinarily, your conduct would have attracted a more severe punishment but, since you are a first offender, I have elected to exercise leniency on you. I wish to reiterate that I will not tolerate gross indiscipline and misconduct from you or, indeed, any hon. Member of this House. The honour, decorum and dignity of the House must be protected and preserved at all times. I do trust that you will reflect seriously on your conduct and, in future, desist from conduct unbefitting a senior and long-serving hon. Member of the House.

Finally, I wish to inform you that in accordance with Section 28(3) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, during the period of your suspension, you shall not:

enter the precincts of the Assembly, and this extends to the National Assembly Motel;

participate in any activity of the Assembly or any Committee that you are assigned to in your capacity as Member of Parliament; and

be paid a salary or allowance that you are entitled to as an hon. Member.

I now order, Hon. M. Kafwaya to proceed on seven days suspension with effect from, today, Tuesday, 7^th to Monday, 13^thNovember, 2023, as resolved by the House.

I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

We have taken too long on this segment. Let us make progress.

_______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam Speaker: I see that there are some hon. Members who have indicated. In accordance with our accepted practice, we will only allow three hon. Members to raise matters of urgent public importance in the manner in which they have indicated. We will start with the hon. Member for Mbabala, who will be followed by the hon. Member for Katombola and, lastly, the hon. Member for Sesheke Central.

HON. MUNSANJE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MBABALA, ON THE OFFICE OF THE VICE-PRESIDENT, THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND THE HON. MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND MEDIA ON SEDITIOUS PUBLICATION BY MUNYAULE

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Munsanje: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for allowing me, on behalf of the good people of Mbabala, to rise on a matter of urgent public importance in line with our statutes.

Madam Speaker, we have seen on social media a matter that can be dangerous for this country and can cause pandemonium. A certain blogger by the name of Munyaule Zambia has been writing unpalatable utterances (reading from his phone) urging Zambians to begin to prepare for civil war. He also says that opposition political parties must begin to recruit police officers and soldiers to ambush President Hichilema. He also says that as long as people do not think of civil war, they will never remove the worst evil and bad leader Dr Kenneth Kaunda warned us about that and that that leader is Mr Hakainde Hichilema. The blogger is spreading such information on Facebook and other social media platforms, such as WhatsApp.

Madam Speaker, I wish to request you to compel the Office of the Vice-President,the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, the hon. Minister of Defence and the hon. Minister of Information and Media to track the blogger down and have him prosecuted. This is because the civil war that he is instigating can engulf all of us in this House. He is talking to the military and the Zambia Police, saying that they must become political. Those are institutions of governance that must remain apolitical. I, therefore, rise on this very serious matter and request, on behalf of the people of Mbabala and the people of Zambia, that we compel the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to track the blogger down using information and communications technology (ICT) from the Ministry of Technologies and Science so that he can be brought to book and made to accountfor his sins.

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, I am a bit uncomfortable admitting what you have raised as a matter of urgent public importance. I am sure that there are other ways that we can use to address that matter but, definitely, not as a matter of urgent pubic importance. The person can either be reported directly to the police, instead of bringing the matter to this House. Hon. Member, please, report him directly to the police, and they will be able to follow up.

HON. ANDELEKI, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KATOMBOLA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FISHERIES AND LIVESTOCK ON THE OUTBREAK OF ANTHRAX.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): On s matter or urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for according the people of Katombola an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance directed to the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock.

Madam Speaker, in Katombola Constituency, there is an outbreak of anthrax and to five people from my constituency who consumed meat suspected to have been contaminated are hospitalised in Livingstone. My people are panicking; they do not know how to handle those who have contracted the disease.

Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister of Fishers and Livestock what measures the Government is putting in place and what urgent remedies are there for our people so that they can live in peace.

Madam Speaker: I have read in the newspapers that there is an outbreak of anthrax. I do not know if the hon. Minister has issued any statement in that regard but, definitely, not in this House. I have heard that people are calling for sensitisation on anthrax. I think, this matter borders on life and death. So, the hon. Minister should come to the House on Thursday, this week, to render a ministerial statement on the matter so that members of the public can be made aware of the disease outbreak. This will also enable hon. Members to ask questions.

HON. KANGOMBE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SESHEKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LANDS AND NATURAL RESOURCES, THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY ON ANGOLAN ARMED FORCES SETTING UP A CAMP ON ZAMBIAN SOIL

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you so much for according me the opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, the hon. Minister of Defence and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, the people of Imusho, for a very long time now, are not able to access the Kwandu River and the grazing plain because our colleagues from the Angolan side have set up a base on the Zambian soil. As I speak, two village headmen were picked by the Defence Forces from Angola and taken to Angola, where they were heavily punished and made to build houses and pole-and-mud structures for some people there. You may wish to note that Imusho is very far from the central business district (CBD) and that the people of Imusho depend entirely on the Kwandu River for their domestic water for their use and for their livestock.

Madam Speaker, are the three ministries that I have mentioned in order to sit quietly while enjoying themselves here when people are suffering to the extent of not having water for themselves as well as for their livestock?

I need you serious and urgent ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Sesheke, I suggest that you file in an urgent question. You should direct your question to a particular ministry, and the hon. Minister responsible will tackle it because it does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

MINING IN THE LOWER ZAMBEZI NATIONAL PARK

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for allowing me to address the House on the status of the proposed large-scale mining activities in the Lower Zambezi National Park by Mwembeshi Resources Limited. This matter has attracted a lot is interest from different stakeholders within the country, the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region, the African continent and the global community at large. Therefore, my office is cognisant of the need to strike a proper balance between the varying interests without negating the need for sustainable utilisation of our natural resources.

Madam Speaker, my office received an appeal from Mwembeshi Resources Limited against the cancellation of Decision Letter No. ZEMA/EIA/EIS/726, with respect to the mining project, by the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA).

Madam Speaker, the brief background of the matter is that in March 2012, Mwembeshi Resources Limited submitted an environmental impact assessment (EIA) to undertake large-scale mining activities under Licence No. 15547-HQ-LML in the Lower Zambezi National Park for consideration to ZEMA, as per the requirements of the Environmental Management Act, 2023, as read with the Environmental Management Act of 2011. The proposed project was considered and rejected by ZEMA on 31^st August, 2012 through Decision Letter No. ZEMA/INS/101/04/01 for the following reason;

locations of the tailing storage facility in relation to the Mana Pools, a World Heritage Site in Zimbabwe;

absence of adequate mitigation measures to avert the risks associated with the acid rock drainage; and

inconsistencies in the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) report on the estimated life of the mine.

Madam Speaker, Mwembeshi Resources Limited, being dissatisfied with the decision of ZEMA, appealed against the said decision letter to the then hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, as the one responsible for the environment at the time.

Madam Speaker, on 9^th October, 2013, the then hon. Minister referred the matter back to ZEMA for reconsideration in accordance with Section 115(1)(C) of the Environmental Management Act of 2011. ZEMA upheld its earlier decision to reject the project and accordingly communicated to the then hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection in a letter dated 29^th November, 2013.

Madam Speaker, Mwembeshi Resources Limited, being dissatisfied with the decision of ZEMA, appealed to the office of the then hon. Minister and on 17^th January, 2014, in determining the said appeal, the then hon. Minister of Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection allowed the appeal and overturned the decision of ZEMA. Consequently, an appeal was filed before the High Court of Zambia against the decision of the hon. Minister to overturn the decision by ZEMA and an order to stay the execution was obtained to that effect on 14^th February, 2014. On 17^th October, 2019, the High Court dismissed the appellant's appeal for a warrant of prosecution and further discharged the stay of execution. The appellants appealed to the Court of Appeal, but the appeal was dismissed on 25^th February, 2021.

Madam Speaker, following the conclusion of the court matter in favour of Mwembeshi Resources Limited, on 7^th May, 2021, ZEMA approved an application for the re-registration of the project through Decision Letter No. ZEMA/EIA/EIS-726. The registration was subject to specific conditions as stated in the decision letter. On 31^st May, 2023, ZEMA issued Mwembeshi Resources Limited with a compliance order for breach of the conditions of the decision letter. The said compliance order suspended the decision letter and further required the developer to comply in full with the condition of the decision letter.

Madam Speaker, following the failure by Mwembeshi Resources Limited to fully comply with the directives of the compliance order, ZEMA, on 29^th June, 2023, issued Mwembeshi Resources Limited with a notice of intention to cancel the decision letter. Further, Mwembeshi Resources Limited was given thirty days to show cause as to why the said decision letter could not be cancelled. Mwembeshi Resources Limited submitted its response on 26^th July, 2023.

Madam Speaker, on 23^rd August, 2023, ZEMA issued Mwembeshi Resources Limited with a notice of cancellation of the decision letter for failing to comply with the conditions of the decision letter followed by a failure to take remedial actions to the satisfaction of ZEMA.

Madam Speaker, the Environmental Management Act of 2011, read as one with the Environmental Management (Amendment) Act of 2023, empowers ZEMA to cancel any authorisation issued under the Act where a developer fails to comply with the conditions of the decision letter. The Act further accords any person aggrieved with the decision of ZEMA to appeal to my office within thirty days of the decision. Therefore, on 31^st August, 2023, Mwembeshi Resources Limited appealed to my office against the said cancellation in line with the provisions of the Act.

Madam Speaker, having considered all the evidence, facts, the historical perspective, principles governing natural resources management and the environment, guidelines and standards currently in use and submissions made by both parties, my findings are based on the reasons set out below:

Madam Speaker, the decision letter directed Mwembeshi Resources Limited to submit detailed designs of the tailings storage facility to ZEMA and the Mines Safety Department prior to the commencement of the project. Mwembeshi Resources Limited proceeded to undertake activities on the ground without complying with this condition of the decision letter. ZEMA served Mwembeshi Resources Limited with a compliance order on 31^st May, 2023, which directed Mwembeshi Resources Limited to comply in full with this and all other conditions of the letter.

Madam Speaker, Mwembeshi Resources Limited only submitted the detailed designs of the tailing storage facility to the Mines Safety Department on 4^th July, 2023. Cleary, Mwembeshi Resources Limited did not comply with this requirement and only did so after issuance of a notice of intention to cancel the decision letter, which notice directed the company to take remedial measures and show cause why the decision letter could not be cancelled.

Madam Speaker, despite the approval of the detailed designs of the tailing storage facility by the Mine Safety Department, ZEMA has not approved the designs on the basis that they lack mitigation measures against the risk of seismic activities.

Madam Speaker, the decision letter further directed Mwembeshi Resources to obtain approval from the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) before putting up any permanent structures in the national park. To the contrary, Mwembeshi Resources Limited proceeded to construct a block of workers accommodation using concrete blocks erected on a concrete foundation. That was a clear breach of the condition of the decision letter that demanded prior approval from the DNPW. Mwembeshi Resources Limited had not taken sufficient measures to remedy this breach despite being served with a compliance order and a notice of intention to cancel the decision letter.

Madam Speaker, Mwemebshi Resources Limited submitted that it had a request for a no-objection from the DNPW. The request for the no objection was made on 25^th July, 2023, after issuance of the compliance order and the notice of intention to cancel the decision letter by the ZEMA. I wish to state that the mere request of no objection from the DNPW is not a remedial measure. The decision letter demands that prior approval be obtained before erection of permanent structures. In remedying this breach, Mwembeshi Resources ought to have demolished the said structures.

Madam Speaker, the decision letter also directed Mwembeshi Resources Limited to employ the best available technology and environmental practices throughout the project life. Again, Mwembeshi Resources Limited was in breach of this condition of the decision letter and, despite being served with a compliance order and notice of intention to cancel the decision letter, Mwembeshi Resources has not taken sufficient remedial measures to remedy the breach. An inspection, indeed, carried out revealed that the mini mechanical workshop and fuel and oil storage areas had no impermeable surface. Mwembeshi Resource Limited did not appropriately treat the soils contaminated by hydrocarbons during the operations of the fuel storage tank that was erected on the open ground. This does not conform with the best environmental practice for pollution and fire prevention.

Madam Speaker, Mwembeshi Resources Limited did not address and remedy the storage of hydrocarbons on open grounds, but merely transferred environmental damage from the project site to the Mukamba Gate when it removed the fuel tank from the mine site to the gate. Further, the two water channels incising and draining water from the escarpment, which Mwembeshi Resources Limited had blocked, had not been unblocked or culverts placed underneath to allow a smooth flow of water across the embankment.

Madam Speaker, I wish to state that a fuel storage tank and crusher do not have approval from ZEMA, the blocking of the stream does not have authorisation from the Water Resources Management Authority (WARMA) and the storage of fuel does not have authorisation from the Energy Regulation Board (ERB).

Madam Speaker, the decision letter also directed Mwembeshi Resources Limited to submit a separate environmental impact assessment (EIA) report for the source of process water, fuel storage facility, power line and sewerage treatment for consideration by ZEMA. In its own admission, Mwembeshi Resources Limited had not fulfilled the requirements of the said condition apart from the submission of an environmental project brief for power transmission and fuel storage facility. This is despite the issuance of a compliance order and notice of intention to cancel the decision letter.

Madam Speaker, the decision letter is clear as to its directives, in this regard, that the mere registration undertaken by Mwembeshi Resources Limited did not negate the obligation of conducting an EIA.

Madam Speaker, Mwembeshi Resources Limited has also cleared land on an area covered by twenty-seven borrow pits, which were not covered in the EIA and no remedial measures have been proposed for the same.

Madam Speaker, further, the decision letter directed Mwembeshi Resources Limited to submit a comprehensive monitoring programme to ZEMA for approval. In this case, the firm proceeded to commence construction activities without submitting the plan. The absence of the said plan entails that the appellant has not been able to thoroughly assess the effectiveness of the mitigation measures over the activities that have already been implemented.

Madam Speaker, the decision letter directed Mwembeshi Resources Limited to obtain and comply in full with other relevant authorisations, such as the Forest Act of 2015 in relation to land clearance and cutting down of trees, the Water Resources Management Act of 2011 in relation to interference with water bodies and the Energy Regulation Board Act, 2019 in relation to the use and storage of fuels.

Madam Speaker, I wish to reiterate that the requirement of the decision letter was for Mwembeshi Resources Limited to have obtained authority from the appropriate institutions as required by the respective pieces of legislation. No such authorisation was obtained to allow Mwembeshi Resources Limited to cut down trees in the project area as per Forest Act No. 5 of 2015; no authorisation was obtained from WARMA or permits issued for the boreholes on site; and lastly, no authorisation was obtained from the ERB for the fuel storage facilities on site. The engagements made by Mwembeshi Resources Limited do not negate the obligations placed on the company by the decision letter and the mandatory adherence thereto.

Madam Speaker, Mwembeshi Resources Limited’s response to all the violations I have highlighted before this House were unsatisfactory, and I take the view that the company should not have commenced activities in such a sensitive environment without obtaining all the necessary authorisations and complying with conditions of the decision letter.

Madam Speaker, the notice of cancellation required Mwembeshi Resources Limited to undertake remedial measures to the satisfaction of ZEMA. I have analysed the circumstances of the case and, in view of the project being located in an environmentally sensitive area, I take the view that Mwembeshi Resources Limited owed a higher duty of care to the environment and needed to ensure that it was compliant with the decision letter and conditions before implementation.

Madam Speaker, I was guided by the precautionary principle to support measures to prevent environmental degradation and, therefore, found that ZEMA was on firm ground in canceling Decision Letter No. ZEMA/EIA/EIS/726 and I, therefore, uphold the decision of the agency.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this precise and straightforward statement.

Madam Speaker, from 2012, when Mwembeshi Resources Limited was issued with an exploration licence, there has been a lot of correspondence to and from the hon. Minister’s office and, clearly, to the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA). From the statement that he has given, which outlined quite a number of correspondences, it has come out clearly that Mwembeshi Resources Limited has been abrogating his instructions and those of ZEMA. Why is the hon. Minister entertaining this company, which has clearly shown that it is not ready to listen to his advice and professional instructions? Further, who is behind this company?

Mr Kangombe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kangombe: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to raise this very important point of order.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that a point of order should be raised contemporaneously, but this particular point one is compelling.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 82 provides that any hon. Member can move a Private Member’s Motion. I am aware that the subject I am raising a point of order on might not have been raised on the Floor of the House. The point of order I am raising is on an hon. Member who, unfortunately, is not here, and that is Hon. Binwell Mpundu.

Information is in public domain that Hon. Binwell Mpubdu intended to move a Motion to impeach you. He populated a list with parliamentarians, some of whom I am aware were not present when that Motion intending to impeach the Speaker was presented to the Office of the Clerk.

Madam Speaker, in my understanding, as a villager, if I sign any document on behalf of anyone without his or her consent – I am also aware that we do have hon. Members whose signatures were populated on the list who have already expressed ignorance of being on the list. I am aware that the Office of the Clerk is in receipt of their submissions to that effect.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 84 (e) provides explicitly that the mover of a Motion as well as the seconder of it shall personally sign the Motion.

Madam Speaker, with the full knowledge that some of the hon. Members who were supposed to personally sign as seconders of the Motion were not present, I seek your ruling on this matter.

Is the hon. Member in question, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana, my colleague, who, unfortunately, is not present here, in order to have populated signatures of hon. Members who were not present? Those are fake signatures for that matter. In my view, they could be forged signatures. Is he in order to have done that?

I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Unfortunately, our Standing Orders do not allow a point of order to be raised in such an instance. What I would advise you to do is write a letter of complaint so that the matter can be considered because that breach did not happen on the Floor of the House. So, hon. Member for Sesheke Central, you are advised to file in a letter of complaint.

Thank you very much.

Mr Kangombe: I take your counsel, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Hon. Minister, do you still remember the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Roan?

Mr Nzovu: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, Hon. J. Chibuye raised a very important question, and it is the reason this matter was brought before this House; for us to make a few clarifications because there is a lot of misleading information concerning it out there.

Madam Speaker, you may recall that in my statement, I tried to give timelines of the events. When you calculate the period over which this matter has been going on, you will see that it has been going on since 2012, which is about eleven years. This matter was in the High Court and then it went to the Court of Appeal. At first, ZEMA rejected it and then it went to the hon. Minister who referred it back to ZEMA, and ZEMA rejected it again. The hon. Minister –

Mr Sampa and Mr Chabinga entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nzovu: Madam Speaker, it is an opportunity to recognise senior hon. Members of the Opposition coming into the House.

Laughter

Mr Nzovu: I can see them smiling …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nzovu: … and coming into the House in a very orderly manner.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nzovu: Madam Speaker, as I was saying, we have not been entertaining the developer or doing anything of that kind. The fact is that this matter has been going on for a very long time. It is a matter that has taken two years to be where it is. It was allowed, obviously, in the previous Government. ZEMA was compelled by court action to issue a decision letter. What my office has basically done is upheld ZEMA’s decision to suspend or to cancel the decision letter.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, in seeking clarification from the hon. Minister, I will take a different angle. As opposed to castigating Zambezi Resources Limited which. I believe, is a Zambian-owned firm, it is important that we, as Zambians, own the resources of this country.

Madam Speaker, most of the objections to mining in the Lower Zambezi National Park are coming from foreign businesses that are operating in that park. Our colleagues can go and check, and they will verify that very few Zambians own businesses there. So, I would like to know if the Government has carried out a cost-benefit analysis. If mining there can get us out of poverty, it is better to go for mining. We have the largest protected areas in Sub-Saharan Africa; the Kafue National Park, North Luangwa National Park and South Luangwa National Park. The protected areas are over twenty. Has the hon. Minister done a cost-benefit analysis so that as a nation, we can decide whether to embrace this Zambezi Resources Limited, which I will favour if it can give us more benefits than what we are currently getting out of the Lower Zambezi National Park? If the hon. Minister has carried out an economic analysis to see whether mining will give us more money compared to what we are getting out of that area, we must allow it to go ahead.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Mung’andu for this very important question. I would like to invite him for a more detailed discussion on this matter.

Madam Speaker, firstly, it is not the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government’s policy to not allow mining activities in any national park or forest. Secondly, the issue before us is not about preventing any mining activities in the Lower Zambezi National Park. The background to the matter before us is that mining was allowed by an order of the Court of Appeal, which upheld the hon. Minister’s decision. So, we are dealing with a matter that was allowed. The question before my office is on the violation of the conditions of the decision letter. This means that Mwembeshi Resources Limited was allowed to mine in the Lower Zambezi National Park. However, because it breached the conditions in the decision letter, ZEMA cancelled that decision letter.

Madam Speaker, the law allows the developer to appeal to the Minister of Green Economy and Environment, who also found that ZEMA was on firm ground in cancelling the decision letter. So, the big message is that the ministry or the UPND Government has upheld the decision of ZEMA to cancel the decision letter because the conditions have been violated. As to whether mining is allowed in the national park or not, that is not the subject right now. In any case, as a Government of laws, we went with the decisions of the Court of the Appeal and allowed Mwembeshi Resources Limited to mine.

Madam Speaker, as regards the other part of the question on who the owners of the firm are, I may not be in privileged position to know.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to ask this question. Allow me to also commend the hon. Minister for taking a very decisive stance on this matter. From where I stand, this issue sounds like a scam. I would like to ask my question within the context of what sustainable development is. With your permission, I will quote what sustainable development is:

“Sustainable development is a development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.’’

Madam Speaker, large-scale mining in the Lower Zambezi National Park has injured, and potentially threatens, the very reason this credible ministry was established. We have a duty to protect the Lower Zambezi National Park from an environmental point of view. Is the Government ready to bring to book those who may have committed certain offences with regard to mining in the park? In short, is the Government ready or willing to set up a tribunal to investigate the operations in the park? This is a matter that has seen a lot of flip-flopping and back and forth. It is a generational question that we have dealt with, probably, for the last ten years.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Before the hon. Minister comes on the Floor, there is an indication for a point of order from the hon. Member for Mwembezhi and Acting Government Chief Whip.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I was supposed to be seated here nicely and enjoying the debate and whatever is happening here.

Madam Speaker, one of the duties of the Leader of the Opposition and the Opposition Whip is to whip their hon. Members in the House. However, I am at a loss because I keep moving up and down trying to whip my hon. Members while my colleagues on your left are just seated there, ndwi, instead of organising their hon. Members.

Are the Leader of the Opposition and the Opposition Whip in order to be seated silently when their hon. Members are not in the House?

I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition and the Patriotic Front (PF) Whip are actually out of order. They should be able to whip their hon. Members so that they can come into the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: However, they have suffered a suspension. Some of their hon. Members are suspended. So, we will give them the benefit of doubt for today.

May the hon. Minister answer the question.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, the question by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya is a very important one. This is the matter I was discussing in great detail with the Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Miles Sampa, this morning.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, this is a question that the President of the Patriotic Front (PF) and Member of Parliament for Matero and I discussed comprehensively, and we were joined by the Leader of the Opposition in Parliament, who eloquently committed to ensuring that there is environmental sustainability in this country. We thank our leaders very much.

Madam Speaker, in coming up with the reasons for cancellation, indeed, ‘ZIMA’ carried out a comprehensive inspection to see if Mwembeshi Resources Limited had adhered to the various conditions in the decision letter. So, we can say that there was some kind of investigation to ensure that there was compliance with the conditions given to Mwembeshi Resources Limited.

Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member’s sentiments on the need to ensure sustainable development. There is always a fight between economic development and environmental protection in any circumstance. So, this Government will do everything possible to ensure that whilst we go forward with developing our economy, that will not be at the expense of the environment.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, just for clarity, is it ZIMA or ZEMA?

Laughter

Hon. Member: It is ZEMA, Madam Speaker. It was slang.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to ask a supplementary question to the hon. Minister.

Mr Sing’ombe: The youth!

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, I know that this is purely a legacy problem. I bear with the hon. Minister because the entire ministerial statement was a description of how things were done in a disorderly manner. Now that the hon. Minister is in charge, what lessons has he learnt on how best these decisions should be made so that in future, we can focus on investments that abide by the law and ensure that when we are investing in environmentally sensitive areas, we do the right thing?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi for this question.

There are many lessons that we have learnt from managing many projects after we came into office. One of the lessons we learnt is that we need to ensure that the rule of law is upheld. We need to ensure that in allowing any projects to come on board, we always carry out comprehensive checks as well as compliance monitoring. We must also hand-hold most of the firms to ensure that they comply with the conditions of the Environmental Management Act.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for this statement.

Madam Speaker, I happen to have been a member of your Committee on Delegated Legislation, and I want to salute the Government for the decision it has made. We physically visited the site of the proposed mining project. What has been highlighted in the ministerial statement is what is actually prevailing and was prevailing. The Zambia Environmental Management Authority (ZEMA) and other stakeholders were present during the site visit. Your Committee also agreed with the position taken by ZEMA. So, the question to the hon. Minister is: With the good leadership he has shown on this matter, what message does he have for the nation concerning other would-be investors who may come into our country and disregard the law, especially the guidance from ZEMA, insofar as investment activities taking place without clearance are concerned?

Madam Speaker: I have added five more minutes to this session. This is on the basis that the hon. Member of Parliament for Milanzi is on suspension and therefore, Question No. 136 will lapse. So, we can add five minutes to this session.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Nyambose for those kind words. I also recognise the work my fellow hon. Members of Parliament, Hon. Nyambose; Hon. Mutinta and others who belong to the Parliamentary Environment Group did. I think, most of the hon. Members here are aware of the issues surrounding mining in the Lower Zambezi National Park by Mwembeshi Resources Limited. The hon. Member also asks what we, as the Government, are doing or telling other mining firms?

Madam Speaker, you may recall that we have been doing a lot of compliance monitoring, particularly with entities mining manganese in Serenje and Mkushi, and coal in the Southern Province. What we have been doing there is ensuring that all those not complying with the law are sanctioned. I can report to this august House that because of the frequent inspections that we have been carrying out and the sanctions that we have been meting out, I am a proud Minister of Green Economy and Environment because levels of compliance to pollution control laws and procedures are rising.

Madam Speaker, what we are telling other firms is that the rule of law will apply and that the sanctions they see us meting out on other firms will also be meted out on them.

Madam Speaker, further, I want to thank the hon. Members of Parliament for supporting my ministry in coming up with the Environmental Management (Amendment) Act of 2023, which has strengthened the law. The sanctions are stiffer and compliance monitoring will be done more but, obviously, the beauty of it all is that the fees will come down and that decisions will be made timely. So, I think, working with hon. Members of Parliament and the public at large, our country will see a better environment.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to pose a question to the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment. Let me commend him for taking action to cancel the decision letter to Mwembeshi Resources Limited.

Madam Speaker, this issue has not started now, just as my colleagues have said. Mwembeshi Resources Limited has not only abrogated the Environmental Management Act and the Forest Act but, as the hon. Minister has mentioned, there are also many Acts that it has abrogated. I want to know from the hon. Minister what sanctions he is going to impose on Mwembeshi Resources Limited to ensure that would-be offenders do not proceed in the manner it did. Other mining firms do not restore the environment after winding up their mining activities. Therefore, I would like to know what sanctions the Government is imposing on Mwembeshi Resources Limited so that it restores that area where it has been conducting illegal activities.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this very important question.

I want to state clearly that what ZEMA did, firstly, was to issue that decision letter with conditions. When the conditions were abrogated, there was a compliance order issued. When the conditions in the compliance order were not complied with, the intention to cancel that decision letter was communicated. Remember, the compliance order compels the developer to restore the environment. That compliance order is still in effect, meaning that the various violations committed by Mwembeshi Resources Limited – Remember, I stated that the Energy Regulation Board Act, the Water Resources Management Act and the Environmental Management Act had been abrogated. So, there are sanctions in those pieces of legislation. Mwembeshi Resources Limited is still duty-bound to ensure that the conditions in that compliance order are adhered to.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 05 – (Electoral Commission of Zambia – K188,655,163)

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to continue with my submission on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya in support of Vote 05 of the National Budget.

Madam Chairperson, we do understand that the Electoral Commission of Zambian (ECZ) is the cradle of our electoral democracy and, as a result, its credibility has a bearing on the quality of leadership, be it in the Executive or in this august House. So, it is very important for us to pay attention to this Vote.

In supporting the allocation to the ECZ, Madam Chairperson, I would like to place it on record that delimitation is critical to enhancing representation. It is critical in the sense that when you look at Kanchibiya, you will see that it is a vast constituency with four chiefdoms and vast wards. Therefore, for development or decentralisation to be meaningful to the common man, we have to ensure that our constituencies and wards are delimitated.

Madam Speaker, I would like to, again, call for vigorous continuous voter registration because we understand that citizens of voting age must not be disenfranchised. We also know that the legitimacy of the Government and true measure of our democracy lies in the potency of our ballot box. It is important that the ECZ also addresses itself to existing gaps in the electoral and legislative frameworks. In this regard, we expect the ECZ, through this budgetary allocation, to address the gaps in the Electoral Process Act and the Electoral Code of Conduct because the transparency and independence of this institution are critical.

Madam Chairperson, there are issues to do with Zambians in the diaspora and in prison voting. That must become a reality, especially in future elections. The fact that one is in the diaspora or incarcerated does not disenfranchise them from participating in the electoral process.

Madam Chairperson, I also wish to humbly submit that the reduction in the funds allocated to the ECZ needs introspection. In fact, we call for more allocation to this agency for various reasons. When we talk about election management, we are also talking about delineating370 wards countrywide. We are talking about delineating 1,800 polling stations across the country and about the continuous voter registration of voters in which 85 per cent of eligible voters will be put on the voters’ register. This is a tall order. So, we wish to understand why there has been a reduction from the 2023 allocation of K199,342,774 to K188,655,163.

Madam Chairperson, even when we speak to electoral planning and process management, I, again, see a reduction from K110,553,056 to K96,867,900. These reductions call for an explanation. I would like to understand the implication of the reduced allocation for the electoral process, and electoral planning and management.

Madam Chairperson, with those remarks, I wish to submit that I support this allocation.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Chairperson, Vote 5 is very important for our democracy. However, I do not support this Vote for the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) because the money allocated to it will not solve the problems we are facing as a country.

Madam Chairperson, you may agree with me that in the 2023 Budget, there was an allocation for the delimitation of fifteen constituencies in the country, yet that was not done. Today, the Government is saying that it is going to delimitate 370 wards, which I support. The Government has also said that it is going to delimitate about 1,800 new polling districts, which is good for democracy.

Madam Chairperson, in some of the areas in my constituency, such as Luangwa Ward, I can tell you that 40 per cent to 50 per cent of the people do not vote. They only show up when there is relief food being distributed, like this time, because hunger is hitting us in those areas. The reason is very simple. No one can walk 30 km to a polling station in an area where there is no road network and communication infrastructure. No one can walk that distance in an area where one cannot even ride a bicycle, but people still live there. Those are the areas where the ECZ needs to do more so that every person can choose a leader of their choice. What happens in such areas is that only the Ruling Party goes there using choppers to campaign. We do not even know if the votes that are recorded in those areas are a true reflection of the people’s choice. So, what we need are voter education exercises and make sure that we come up with well-established polling stations in the districts.

Madam Chairperson, I have a problem with the allocation of K76,867,900 for electoral planning and process management because when it comes to delimitation, our colleagues have just spoken about wards and polling districts. I want us to look at the constituencies that are vast in this country. I have in mind Mwinilunga, Kasempa and Nyimba constituencies. Nyimba Constituency is the biggest constituency in the Eastern Province, covering close to 12,000 km². Some small areas with a lesser number of people have been given three or four constituencies, yet the Government wants the people of Nyimba to appreciate the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF). That is depriving the people of Nyimba. Today, the people of Nyimba are saying that they also need their constituency to be delimitated into two or three constituencies so that everyone can be happy and appreciate the goodness of the enhanced CDF allocation.

Madam Chairperson, how can people in Nyimba appreciate when the development is only in Lusaka? The next set of people is in Kabwe, which has 150 km in one constituency. The Executive sees this as normal, but it is not. Whether it is the Ministry of Justice, the Office of the Vice-President or the ECZ looking at it, it is not normal. So, we need to change the narrative and see to it that people have enough resources by clearly marking the geographical areas in the country. In the Eastern Province, we have Chama and Nyimba districts. The difference in the surface area in the two districts is less than 500 km². Chama is in two constituencies. Petauke Central, which is eight times to ten times bigger than Nyimba Constituency has two districts. If you go to areas like – Sorry, I will talk about my hon. Minister for the Eastern Province. His constituency is so vast. It is second to Nyimba. However, if you look at it, do you think that the hon. Minister will manage to go around the areas there or take development to the people, who deserve it? It is impossible because the constituency is vast.

I would like to urge the Executive and the ECZ to start looking at constituencies that are vast so that we can all share the cake of this country equitably. There is no one who is more important than the people of Nyimba. There are no constituencies that are more important than Nyimba.

Madam Chairperson, today, even as I sit here, as a Member of Parliament, I did not campaign in seven wards. I did not reach some areas because they are unreachable. It is only the Government that went to those areas using choppers. I only won as an Independent Member of Parliament because people knew that I used to support the President. To date, we do not have a solution for those areas. Let people appreciate. I hope that the United Party for National Development (UPND) will leave Government in whatever year, and people will appreciate it for having done the right thing, and that rightful thing should be started now. It does not need hon. Members of Parliament to bring up the issue of delimitation. So, I am urging the Executive and the ECZ to carry out the delimitation exercise like yesterday.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, I have Hon. Michelo, Hon. Mung’andu and Hon. Munsanje on my list.

Hon. Michelo, you may proceed.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving the people of Bweengwa Constituency an opportunity to debate the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) Vote. We know, quite alright, that Vote 5 is very important. We know that its mandate is to organise and conduct elections in this country.

Madam Chairperson, from the outset, I want to inform this House and the entire country that I support this Vote. The only challenge we have is the issue of constituencies. As the previous speaker said, some constituencies, like Katombola and Bweengwa, are vast. If we delimitated all the vast constituencies, I think, we would take development there.

Madam Chairperson, I am requesting Her Honour the Vice-President and the ECZ to try by all means to conduct free and fair elections, unlike what used to happen in the previous years. You saw what happened in Sesheke. It was not even an election, but a bloodbath. It was total war, whereby people from the Opposition were badly beaten. I was one of those people who were trying to hide in the bush. It was extremely bad, and we do not want to see such situations under the New Dawn Government. All the mess that the Patriotic Front (PF) made during its regime, from 2011 to 2021, was extremely bad.

Madam Chairperson, when it is time to campaign, we should give democratic space to the PF and the second largest opposition party, the Party of National Unity and Progress (PNUP). We must give them a chance when that time comes so that they can exercise their freedom. We do not want to see a situation such as the one in which the UPND suffered towards the 2021 General Election. Three months before the general election, the UPND suffered. It was an extremely difficult period,and people were not allowed to campaign. The opposition political party leader then, who is the current Republican President –

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, on the content of speech and the information that people are assimilating. The information that is provided to this House must not only be factual, but also verifiable because our Parliamentary proceedings are broadcast live to the entire nation.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to cast aspersions on the hon. Members here on the left, who have never been involved in any violence or any obstruction of the electoral process? If only cameras could zoom-in on these innocent faces I am seeing here, which the hon. Member keeps referring to as the Patriotic Front (PF), when we have never even slapped a fly or blocked anyone.

Mr Chabinga: Is he in order?

Mr Mung’andu: Is the hon. Member in order to continue on that trajectory when he knows that these PF hon. Members, including Hon. Chabinga, who is here, (pointing at Hon. Chabinga) have never been involved in any violence?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Rebranded!

The Chairperson: Thank you, hon. Member.

Hon. Michelo did not point at the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members who are seated here. He referred to the previous Government.

Laughter

The Chairperson: He did not point at the hon. Members who are here. He just said “the previous Government”. So, since he has facts about what happened where he went for a by-election, I think, he is in order, especially since he did not point at the hon. Members in this House.

Mr Chibuye: Water, water, Michelo!

The Chairperson: Let us continue.

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, thank you so much.

Madam Chairperson, I did not mean the hon. Colleagues who are seated here. These are credible men. I meant those who left the House immediately after we were done.

Laughter

Mr Michelo: Those were involved. These seated in the House are credible men. These are super-ebranded PF.

Madam Chairperson, my request to the ECZ is that when the time for voter registration comes, the people of Zambia from all the ten provinces of this country must be allowed to exercise their rights. It is not good to start experiencing what we experienced during the PF regime, whereby some provinces were denied an opportunity take part in the voter registration exercise. That was extremely bad. We do not want to go through that hell again. We want people to be registered so that they can exercise their right to vote.

Madam Chairperson, I think, you saw it for yourself. When the PF was ruling and the UPND was in the Opposition, the current Republican President –

The Chairperson: Hon. Michelo, please, do not drag the Presiding Officer into your debate.

Mr Michelo: Thank you very much.

The Chairperson: Alright.

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, what I want to highlight to the people of Zambia, because they are listening, is that we must not go back to where we could hear of constituencies, such as Chitulika, that did not exist. We do not want to see a repeat of that in the 2026 General Election. We do not want to hear about another “Chitulika Village”, where people were getting thousands of votes. We do not want to hear of that.

Madam Chairperson, you may recall that when we went to court to petition the election results, there was an issue about the fourteen days period within which to file a petition. We do not want to hear about such situations. We also want to have credible opposition political parties that are not violent. We just have to compete with ideas and talk to the people of Zambia about what we want to do for them.

Madam Chairperson, we must avoid, at all costs, attempts to divide the nation on tribal lines. Let us avoid that because Zambia is one. All the ten provinces of this country are one. Tongas, bembas, nyanjas, lozis and everybody else in this country are one people. So, let us not agitate the situation by being tribal, as doing that could divide the nation. Instead, let us unite this country. Whichever leader happens to win should be supported, not leaders who were imposing themselves on the people in the last two or three elections. When you go to court, they blocked the court process and said that the fourteen days period has elapsed. We do not want to experience that. Let us move together as a country.

Madam Chairperson, I request the rebranded opposition political party under the leadership of Hon. Miles Sampa to start campaigning when it is campaign time, not now. This is time to work. The time to campaign is coming in 2026. When people are not given permits to campaign, they should not campaign because this is not a campaign period. Let us work together and support one another. Please, bring ideas to the New Dawn Government so that we move together as a country, not whereby people are just talking about tribalism. It is not taking us anywhere. Let us unite this country.

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, let me say that

I support Vote 5.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Chairperson, I will begin by expressing my concern. When you look at the Budget line for the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), you will see that it is mostly to do with personal remuneration and other operations to do with conducting elections. I have not seen much to do with voter education. This is where the problem emanates from. This is the source of the leadership problems this country is facing. I know that democracy, in our context, can be defined as the Government for the illiterates by the illiterates because the majority of the people who vote do not vote based on the credibility of the candidates before them. This is why I want to repeat that we have individuals who, in an ordinary sense, are not even supposed to see the doors of this Chamber, here. The only solution at the moment is to have a substantial Budget line to do with continuous voter education, not the voter education that starts a few months before a general election.

Madam Chairperson, instead of having people flashing money in our constituencies while we are here debating national matters, we are supposed to have the ECZ educating people on topics, such as good leadership and qualities of a good leader. Who should the people vote for? People should be able to know the roles of a Member of Parliament through the ECZ. All institutions that are involved in governance particularly those that have the responsibility to facilitate election of leaders, including Parliamentarians, should be working hand-in-hand. I know, we have Professional Assistants (PAs) in the constituencies, but the ECZ has a duty to sensitise voters. If possible, the Government should present a Supplementary Budget for that, and we, here on the left, are ready to pass it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: It can present a Supplementary Budget of K40 million or K50 million for the ECZ specifically to do with voter education. This is a very important point, and I will spend much of my time on it. In other countries, before you even dream of becoming a Member of Parliament or a Member of the people’s Congress, they will check your background; what you have done in that community and if you uphold the values and ethics of that society. In our case, Zambia. In terms of integrity tests, are you someone they can trust to not divide the country or call for anarchy? The moment you just say, “Can we cause anarchy?”, you are automatically disqualified from holding any public office. However, in our case, all I need is to be corrupt, earn my money and go and buy off all the women with vitenge, and I will be a Member of Parliament, come to this House and just sit for five solid years.

Mr Anakoka: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, this is a place where we should be giving alternative solutions, not just sitting. The only time you will hear us speak is when we are having our tea break and asking for milk or Coca-Cola.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: We should be able to argue here, in the House, –

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Let us not debate ourselves.

You may continue.

Mr Mung’andu: Well noted, Madam Chairperson.

Madam Chairperson, I am calling upon the ECZ to increase the budgetary allocation for voter education. We should not go and start educating our people. I have also challenged those who have come to this Parliament after having spent less than K50,000 to show themselves because we do not believe in buying the people. We believe in telling the people of Chama South the truth. When we say that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is working, it is something that people have seen, not that we are praising the Government. There are other areas where it is a fact that the CDF is working and this is good.

Madam Chairperson, I want to repeat myself: We need more voter education programmes. If anything, when the ECZ is not conducting elections, it should have a fully-fledged voter education department that should be everywhere, such as on our community radio stations and the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Television, explaining to the people so that they make proper and well-informed decisions when electing their leaders. There are people who can sacrifice their lives for the well-being of citizens. Once we bring selfless leaders here, to the House, the hon. Member for Bweengwa will not worry about the country being divided. It is only failed leadership that divides the country. We love one another and we are one. We have inter-married. We also have to uphold our constitutional values and principles that call for the unity of this country. The beginning is the ECZ because it is the institution that ushers us into these offices.

Madam Chairperson, in my final submission, I would like to say that we expect a Supplementary Budget for the ECZ, which we are ready to approve, to do with voter education and sensitisation so that before 2026, no one will buy our people because our people will know who a leader is and who stands for their well-being. Leaders should sacrifice and die a little and rejoice to see the people they are leading succeed. Those are the leaders. If we see technocrats with professional bodies, such as the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ), growing and law reports being developed, we rejoice. Also, when we see engineers and surveyors growing, and lecturers prospering, then, as leaders, we should rejoice. That can only come through the electoral process.

Will these few submissions, Madam Chairperson, I am confident that the ECZ will present a Supplementary Budget to do with voter sensitisation and education.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to support Vote 05, Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), on behalf of the good people of Mbabala.

The ECZ plays an important role in the democratic dispensation of this country in terms of conducting credible elections. As such, we need integrity, transparency and accountability to maintain our national values of democracy and constitutionalism. It is from such that Zambia has continued to make excellent progress, since the coming of the New Dawn Government into office, in taking forward these values with both the budgetary allocation and, indeed, the conduct of the ECZ, which has continued to improve and gain public confidence.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to reiterate the call from the people of Mbabala for continuous voter registration in our wards, not only in the constituencies or districts, because I think, currently, it is happening only at the district level in Choma. We wish to see the continuous voter registration decentralised to the constituency and to the twelve wards we have. We also have concerns in areas such as Kachenje, Chazangwe and Sinalungu, which are, sometimes, neglected. Further, in areas that border other constituencies, our people get confused because during the census, the combined statistical areas (CSA), which are census enumeration areas, count people from different districts. So, some of our people from Sinalungu area, for example, are counted under Kalomo District, …

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: … while some in Chazangwe are counted under Monze Central Constituency. Others, such as those in Hakaloba area, are counted under Namwala. However, when it comes to elections, they vote in Mbabala. As such, we need to streamline the census system and see how it is getting people into other districts, yet they belong to our constituency, which is in Choma District. So, we need the streamlining to ensure that during the census and voter registration exercises, people are registered in the same areas to reduce confusion and ensure that people can identify themselves as members of Choma District and Mbabala Constituency. This is an important point that the ECZ must liaise on with its colleagues at the Zambia Statistics Agency (ZamStats) to ensure that we streamline the census process.

Madam Chairperson, the work on the delimitation of constituencies is very important. Our people in Mbabala continue to call for Mbabala District to have two constituencies. So, we also support the delimitation of big constituencies, such as Mbabala, so that we can serve our people better.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about the issue of voter education. To ensure that we continue to sensitise our people, especially working with the civil society, I think that the ECZ needs to have a budget to support civil society organisations (CSOS) that are able to reach some of the areas that the institution might not be able to reach. The civil society is able to go on the ground; in the wards and branches where we would want to see everybody educated on the role and quality of hon. Members so that we can improve the quality in this House. Indeed, some of the qualities in this House leave much to be desired. So, we really need to change that and bring about the correct quality. That way, the integrity of the House will be upheld.

Madam Chairperson, we need to continue on the trajectory of peaceful elections in this country. Therefore, District Conflict Resolution Committees (DCRCs) must not only exist, but also given teeth to bite when there are erring candidates during elections. In the past, we saw an abuse of the process, whereby the then Ruling Party, the Patriotic Front (PF), kept summoning some of us, as candidates, to appear before the DCRCs almost on a daily basis whilst its candidates were busy campaigning. That is an abuse of the DCRC, and we need to curb such vices. The committees must have integrity and only deal with right things. However, they must also have teeth to bite when some members do wrong things during the campaigns because some of the things that are done are wrong.

Madam Chairperson, as stated by my colleagues, we have seen candidates carry pangas when going to cast their votes. Such things must be discouraged and stopped. We have seen that as soon as someone renounces his or her retirement and relinquishes his or her rented house, the pangas are back. That is something which we do not want to see in this country, and we must not compromise on that.

Madam Chairperson, we also need to talk about the nomination fees when a candidate dies or withdraws from an election. I think, we saw that when something like that happened, people were required to pay new nomination fees. That must be revised because it is not fair for the other people who have remained in the race to pay new fees. It not their fault that one has died or has withdrawn from a race. Therefore, the practice of paying new fees must be reviewed to ensure that one only pays nomination fees once, not when they are called for a re-run.

Madam Chairperson, I support this budget, and I believe that the ECZ has assembled a team that is equal to the task, which must be supported so that it can deliver on its mandate of ensuring credible elections and continuing to garner public support. The ECZ must work on curbing malpractices, such as, the registration of children in some region that we saw last time. It was rampant in some areas, and it must be stopped. We must ensure that we register only eligible voters for the continued credibility of the ECZ and enjoyment by citizens, of rights to cast their vote.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, I would like to apologise because we cannot take any more contributions on this Vote, as six hon. Members have debated it. We still have about four Votes to complete today. So, I ask Her Honour the Vice-President to wind up debate.

The Vice- President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Members who have debated Vote 05, Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ).

Madam Chairperson, it is, indeed, gratifying for me to hear the support that has come from everybody who has debated. The hon. Members who have debated this Vote have brought out a number of issues. Specifically, they have talked about the delimitation of constituencies; that the constituencies are too big. Almost everybody who has debated has touched on that. The ECZ is aware of that, and I must repeat something that I said last year: As for the ECZ, the work has been done when it comes to constituencies. Whether it is to the satisfaction of the people, I do not know. What is left on the delimitation of constituencies is action on the part of the Executive.

Madam Chairperson, another issue that has been brought out is that of wards and polling stations. If you go through the Budget in detail, you will see that there is a provision for that. It is something that squarely falls under the mandate of the ECZ. I have heard hon. Members’ sentiments about some wards being too big.

Madam Chairperson, on the criterion for the delimitation of constituencies or wards, it is important to look at the two issues. I think, even last time, I did that but, probably, we need to look at other criteria. During the Vice-President’s Question Time, I gave an example of Mandevu Constituency, where you will find over 300,000 or 400,000 people in a ward, and they need education and health facilities. When you go to Nyimba, you will find 50,000 people scattered over a very huge area. I am talking about the geographical size. I think, the combination of the two aspects is what informs the decision on delimitation. That also means that the people who are supposed to be serviced are fewer. While Mandevu is smaller than Nyimba geographically, there are more people living in Mandevu than there are in Nyimba. Maybe, we should move some people from Mandevu to Nyimba. Basically, this is usually the case; rural areas have vast areas, but the population is not that large.

Madam Chairperson, the credibility of the institution has also been insisted upon, and we agree because it is the commission that mans elections and ensures that there is no turbulence even after elections. This means that we agree with many of the things that the hon. Members have raised about this institution’s integrity and manner in which it conducts elections.

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Munga’ndu spoke strongly about the voter education exercise. There is a Budget line for that, and I think, it is about K76 million. If you look at the Budget, on page 50, you will see that that has been catered for. You can check on page 50, and you may see something there that will also cater for voter education. To ensure that it is not just last-minute cooking, that people do not even know the type of member they want to elect. So, yes, I agree. The ECZ will work on some of the things that we have all talked about.

Madam Chairperson, I know, I can talk about what every hon. Member has talked about, but I think that generally, I have tried to respond to all the points that were raised.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 06 – (Civil Service Commission – Office of the President – K21,874,403)

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I wish to present the policy statement for Vote 06, Civil Services Commission (CSC).

Madam Chairperson, the brief background is that the CSC is established under Section 221 of the Constitution of Zambia and draws its mandate from the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016. The commission is responsible for ensuring that appointments, confirmations, promotions, transfers, re-grading, attachments, secondments, discipline and separation of personnel in the Civil Service are done in accordance with the prescribed guidelines and procedures.

Madam Chairperson, the commission's budget for 2024 is premised on Strategic Development Area (SDA) No. 4 of the Eight National Development Plan (8NDP), which focuses on ensuring that there is an improved policy and governance environment.

Overview of the 2023 Performance.

Madam Chairperson, the commission was allocated K14,991,553 and recorded a number of successes in line with its strategic plan, as follows:

Civil Service Human Resource Management.

the commission established and inducted twenty-five Human Resources Management Committees in ministries, as per revised National Decentralisation Policy; and
996 officers were appointed into the Civil Service, 218 officers were confirmed, 561 officers were separated from the Civil Service and 1,235 officers were transferred due to various reasons, such as reuniting couples, and, 850 officers were promoted. Additionally, the commission attached 35,247 civil servants whose functions have been devolved to the various city and town councils.

Governance and Standards

processed 103 disciplinary cases and seventy-two appeals/complaints in order to promote good conduct in the Civil Service;

conducted two monitoring and evaluation (M&E) activities on the Copperbelt Province and in Central Province to ensure adherence to the guidelines with regard to the processing of cases of the delegated functions;

revised the strategic plan and balanced scorecard for the period 2022 to 2026; and

non-legislative documents, such as the human resources guidelines on recruitment and placement in the Civil Service, were launched by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, on 30^th June, 2023.

Management and Support Services

procured computers and air conditioners, printers and office furniture in order to enable smooth operation of the Commission; and

procured a sixteen-seater minibus in order to support monitoring and evaluation of delegated functions.

2024 Budget Estimates.

Madam Chairperson, the 2024 Budget will enable the commission to undertake a number of strategic programmes aimed at improving service delivery in the Civil Service in areas such as automation of human resources management processes, compliance and quality control, human resource management reforms, monitoring and evaluation, as well as standard guidelines and regulations.

Madam Chairperson, the commission's functions will be performance under three key programmes as follows:

Civil Service Human Resource Management

The commission is responsible for implementing human resource management reforms, establishing Human Resources Management Committees and building capacity in the ministries, provinces and Government institutions to enable effective and efficient processing of delegated human resource functions. The programme estimate is K5,823,677.

Governance and Standards

This programme comprises four sub-programmes with the critical aim of ensuring compliance with the principles and values of human resource management as outlined in the Service Commissions Act implementation of human resource policies, procedures and guidelines in the Civil Service continuous sensitisation on the launched non-legislative document, terms and conditions of service, disciplinary code and grievance handling procedures; automation of its work processes and M&E activities. The programme estimate is K5,173,898.

Management and Support Services

This involves the undertaking of timely and effective provision of management and administration of support services to ensure smooth operations of the commission. The programme estimate is K10,876,828.

In summary, the commission’s operational budget estimates for 2024 amounts to K21, 874,403.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, the budget estimates and proposed programmes of the CSC will greatly contribute to the attainment of a good governance environment. I, therefore, urge the august House to approve the 2024 Estimates of Expenditure for the commission as presented.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Chairperson, I want to state that I support the budget for the Civil Service Commission (CSC), especially given that there are substantial amounts that have been set aside in the area of monitoring and evaluation (M&E).

Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank the Government for devolving the functions of the commission. So far, twenty-five Human Resources Management Committees have been created. We note that this was not an easy undertaking. From 2013 or 2002, when decentralisation was mooted, the Government had been dragging its feet, but the New Dawn Administration has ensured that twenty-five Human Resource Management Committees are created.

Madam Chairperson, the expectation is that the commission will not sit in Lusaka because its functions have now been devolved to the District Human Resource Management Committees. This means that the commission should undertake monitoring activities to ensure compliance with standards.

Madam Chairperson, you may wish to note that the majority of our members, some of whom are our workers, work without being confirmed for long periods of time. Others have retired, and at the time of retirement, that is when they are being confirmed or deemed to have been confirmed. So, the Government's decision to devolve the functions of the commission to the districts and spending agencies is commendable. However, are these agencies where the functions have been taken doing the right thing? We may find that they are even falling short. So, part of the K4.6 million is for monitoring to enable our able commission to visit these spending agencies to ensure that there is compliance.

Madam Chairperson, I support this budget. However, for us to ensure that devolution succeeds and that we extend the functions beyond the twenty-five committees that have so far been given the mandate to deal with those issues on behalf of the commission, we should ensure that monitoring is enhanced. I have worked in the commission. So, I know that this amount that has been given to the commission is commendable, as it will enable the commission to run its affairs. If there will be a need for a Supplementary Budget, I will be the first one to support it because I know what it would mean. Many times, when people are employed, they do not understand their roles. So, it is the job of the commission to go around and ensure that the Human Resource Officers this Government has employed; the civil servants, are oriented on the principles of the Public Service. You will note that many of our workers across the Civil Service do not understand their roles.

Madam Chairperson, in the olden days, when you were employed, just to give an example, I worked for a council, you were taken to Chalimbana Local Government Training Institute for six months to be oriented even when you had a degree. So, the commission should develop a programme of inducting newly-recruited employees. Look at the number of people being recruited by this Government. The people employed will not yield the results that this Government desires if they are not well looked after by the commission. So, the commission is doing a commendable job by ensuring that civil servants are well oriented. That can be done with an enhanced budget like this one.

Madam Chairperson, this budget is good for the commission, but more needs to be done. The commission does not need to be in Lusaka; it needs to go around. I do not want to mention names, but when you visit some of the ministries, you will find that workers are only active when funding is released. That is when you will see the full capacity in all the offices. Some of the ethics that this commission needs to monitor in the Public Service are work related.

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about the dress code. Way back, as a civil servant, you were identified by the way you dressed. Here, where we are in Parliament, I cannot dress anyhow, but go to the ministries and you will find civil servants on a Monday dressed in Manchester United jerseys even when they are not field workers. So, we are losing it as a country, and the commission should be empowered with resources to monitor and inculcate norms of the Public Service into the workers.

Madam Chairperson, I support the budget wholeheartedly because I want to see a commission that is going to change the culture of the Public Service so that when the President of the Republic of Zambia is recruiting using his Government, we will be able to see the change in productivity and a well-cultured Civil Service.

Madam Chairperson, when I was in a union, I was privileged to visit many countries, and one of them was Japan. In developed countries, you are able to tell that someone is a public worker. Nowadays, when some of our workers get paid, they do not even appreciate the favour that the Government is able to recruit these numbers. They do not pay back. When they get paid, they do not report for work for one week. Who monitors who? So, we should ensure that all these efforts by the Government are yielding the results that we desire by improving productivity and the standards of the Civil Service. There must be a difference between a farmer and a civil servant. When you enter some offices, you will think that a person there is also a client, but that is the officer serving you. So, with this budget, the commission should up its game and ensure that the norms and standards of the Public Service are adhered to.

With these remarks, I support this budget.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Ms Sabao (Chikankata): Madam Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to add the voice of the people of Chikankata to the debate on this very important Vote, which is for the Civil Service Commission (CSC).

Madam Chairperson, the commission is a very important institution in this country, as it is the institution that recruits, deploys, promotes and transfers the human resource that is in charge of implementing the projects in the Budget for the country. Hence, it is very important that we have the right people in the right place to implement our Government projects for us to see development in this country. From this background, I will put forward a few remarks.

The first point is that it is very important for us to depoliticise the Civil Service. When you go to some institutions, you find that our people have political lenses. With the coming of the alebwelelapo syndrome, most of the projects have suffered. We have people who still feel that someone will come back because of the way they were employed. There was a pollical lens in their employment. Some were not qualified, others had connections to some people while others campaigned for some individuals, making our lives difficult in the process. One institution that has suffered because of this is the local government in the implementation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I hear most of our hon. Members complaining about how the implementation of the CDF is slow in their councils. Why is it that way? It is because we have people with political lenses, depending on where they are coming from. So, it is the role of the commission to depoliticise the Civil Service because the civil servants are very important people in the development of our country. When the Government puts money into projects, it is not only looking at the current generation, but also at the future generations of this country. If we construct a school today, it is not just for the people alive today; we are also looking at those who will come fifty years after us, hence the need to have the right people in the right places.

Madam Chairperson, the other point is that I support the 90 per cent increment in human resource, as that will help the institution to monitor and evaluate projects across the country. For the commission to operate effectively, it needs to have enough resources.

Madam Chairperson, it is also important that we use technology. I am a member of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). So, I know that when you look at the Auditor-General’s Report, you will see that most of the resources have been spent on ghost workers. Why? It is because we do not have the right technology to determine that a particular person died or left employment some years back. This is because we have people who are there for their own interests. They are able to connive among themselves, pay ghost workers and become the beneficiaries of public resources. It is very important that we put more money into this institution so that we improve our technology.

Madam Chairperson, the other point is on information and communications technology (ICT). Zambia is part of the global village, and the world has gone technological. Technology will help in recruitments. When jobs are advertised, an advertisement will state, for example, that degree or certificate holders are needed. However, because we do not have the right ICTs, we are able to employ even those people who are not qualified. If we had the right technology in place, when a name is entered in a system, the system would show that the person does not qualify or qualifies for the job. Hence, it is very important that under the New Dawn Government, we empower the commission with more resources to enable it to go around the country and carry out its day-to-day activities.

Madam Chairperson, Chikankata, as a rural constituency, needs the right people for it to be called a district. It was declared a district in 2013, but if you go to there, nothing will show you that it is a district because we do not have the infrastructure that gives the picture of a district. However, when we have the right civil servants in place, they will be able to help to plan because that is their job. From my understanding, it is the civil servants who should identify the needs of a district, and that can only happen when we have the right people in place. At the moment, we have civil servants who are thinking about the future and praying very hard that someone comes back into power so that they can continue with their habits of spending public resources in the wrong places. Under the New Dawn Government, I am saying that let us help this institution so that we can help to develop this country. Let us have the right people in the right places to implement the projects and programmes that we are approving using this budget.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Dr Chilufya (Mansa Central): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for this privilege to debate the Civil Service Commission (CSC) Vote.

Madam Chairperson, the commission was created through an Act of Parliament with delegated powers to manage the human resources in the Government. The human resource is arguably the most important resource in any dispensation. It is therefore, imperative that human capital is managed optimally for us to even feed into the Government’s agenda to unlock economic potential in line with this year’s Budget theme.

Madam Chairperson, as I support this Vote, I have some concerns. The first one is that our Civil Service Commission must own up and address the issue of holding positions. How many Directors, today, are at home and drawing salaries in the name of holding positions? The number is increasing. We are seventy-six, we are close to 200. Drawing salaries and staying at is not different from plundering resources. That is not prudent management of resources. If we are living in an era of fiscal consolidation, there is no reason we should be paying people who are not working. Why would you promote people to positions where there are existing Directors who are just at home? It is our inescapable imperative to stem capital flights through those Directors who are at home in the name if holding oppositions.

Secondly, Madam Chairperson, we need to depoliticise the Civil Service. There are civil servants who have high technical skills, having been trained at great expense using Government resources, but they perceived through a political lens. Oftentimes, we lose institutional memory because everybody is perceived through a political lens.

Madam Chairperson, we need a very professional Civil Service and there needs to be security of tenure. Sometimes, service delivery suffers because we push aside people who are very qualified professionals in the name of politics. We need to reset our democracy and ensure that the Civil Service is depoliticised.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, I urge the commission to dispense its responsibilities optimally in order to support the Government’s aspiration for economic development. Human capital is fundamental to improving our productivity. If we mismanage human capital in any sector through our secretariat, the Public Service Management Division (PSMD), and just push people at home, we are going to deplete our resources. Our Treasury will not be able to pay salaries, yet there are people drawing salaries without doing any work in any month.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mrs Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to add a voice to the debate on Vote 06, which is for the Civil Service Commission (CSC).

Madam Chairperson, from the outset, I want to say that I support the Budget line for this Vote, more importantly given that for the first time, there is an allocation for monitoring and evaluation (M&E). Indeed, this is a very important component because as we have heard from my colleagues, the hon. Members who debated earlier, human capital is very important in service delivery. Without discipline, a positive mindset and hard work, there is no way a country can see any service delivery.

Madam Chairperson, our President intimated that there is a need to ensure timely delivery of projects and value for money but, for us to attain this, we need to enhance M&E. I am happy that there is a Budget line for this programme this time around. I only hope that we are going to see qualified personnel get employed, and those are the ones who will be making sure that the M&E is done.

Madam Chairperson, from my experience, confirming someone in the Public Service is a mandate of the commission. However, you find ghost workers who are confirmed. Where is the commission? For two years, somebody is getting a salary, but he or she is not employed. Where is the commission? Someone without qualifications is promoted while people with qualifications are left behind. Where is the commission? What is the commission doing? These things are happening because the M&E component was missing; people who are qualified to monitor what those in the Public Service are doing. So, this time around, we want the commission to make sure that we have a cadre of civil servants that is going to prioritise effective and efficient delivery of services to the Zambian people.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to add that now that the commission has a component of M&E, it should come up with a system of monitoring the way civil servants work. We can take a leaf from Lumwana and Kalumbila mines. We can look at how those mines are doing it. You find that if there is a task that is given, the workers are not monitored. How much time is a letter going to be in one particular office? If somebody is not doing his or her job, there will be a red flag, and people will want to know what is happening for them to not receive the letter. What we are seeing in the Civil Service is that working on a letter might take six months, and nobody acts. The person working on it simply sits on it. We need to improve the way we work through the M&E component. We also need to devise a system that will enable us to monitor what our workers are doing in these offices. We need to do that in order to improve our country’s economy. If we do these things, we will see development in this country.

Madam Chairperson, I cannot say more than I have said. I just want to thank the Government for including the M&E component in this Vote. It is an important component for ensuring our country’s development, we have to employ qualified people to monitor what our Civil Service is doing. So, the commission must drive this agenda.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you so much.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank Hon. Nyambose, Hon. Sabao, and Hon. Halwiindi who have debated. I thank them for supporting Vote 06, which is for the CSC.

Madam Chairperson, I always like to listen to Hon. Nyambose with his experience in the commission. I think, sometimes, we think that the commission is the actual workers; the ones who go and supervise the civil servants. Indeed, issues of orientation are theirs. I like the fact that they have a delegated responsibility. They work on behalf of the President. Commissions work on behalf of the President, but the ministries are the actual supervisors of the individual workers on the spot. Commissions cannot supervise, but they can have programmes to orient workers because, at the end of the day, they also act like umpires. When there are issues of discipline or promotion, those issues go to the commission. The commission is the one that appends the final signature to the promotions and all the mundane things that fall under their mandate.

Madam Chairperson, at the end of the day, I appreciate, on behalf of the commission, the support that has been given, and I also note the debate by Hon. Nyambose that the budget has improved. Everybody would want a little more than what is given to the commission. This is a good improvement for the commission because as it decentralises or devolves its work, it needs to monitor the programmes. All three debaters have spoken about the importance of monitoring. So, the allocated resources should help the commission to carry out orientation. That way, our workers will not be looked at like retired farmers, but people who are ready to work. You see that they do work to implement the constitutional principles and values in the different ministries going down to the provinces. So, I appreciate it.

Madam Chairperson, even Hon. Dr Chilufya debated. He is the one who brought out the issue of delegated responsibility that the commissions have. I think, we have heard that it is costly for people to hold positions and get paid.

Madam Chairperson, we have another category of workers, which Hon. Halwiindi said exists, but the commission does not know about, yet they are on salaries. They are called ghost workers. The commission is listening, and we should be able to do better. With a little more resources, we should ensure that is attended to. If a person is not capable to do the work, why do we hold on to him or her? I do not understand that bit, but the concern of the hon. Member is understood.

Madam Chairperson, the other thing I heard is the depoliticisation of the commission. That is very important. Everybody who has debated has touched on the need to depoliticise the Civil Service. Do not employ someone just because he or she is a cadre even when he or she is not qualified. Anyone who is appointed to a certain position must be qualified for that position and should also continue to work irrespective of who is in power because the Civil Service is permanent. Therefore, we cannot have people working the way politicians like Hon. Mung’andu work. Politicians can come and go, but civil servants are permanent workers, and they must remain in their positions. So, they must be properly oriented to ensure that work properly without having to looking at things through political lenses. Instead, they must cultivate the right work culture. I think, these are some of things that have come out today. Some of them are not easy, but human capital is critical for development anywhere.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 28 – (EmolumentsCommission – K31,619,435)

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank you for according me the opportunity to present the 2024 Budget Estimates of Expenditure for the Emoluments Commission.

Mandate

Madam Chairperson, Article 232 of the Constitution of Zambia establishes the Emoluments Commission to determine the emoluments of public officers, chiefs or members of the House of Chiefs on the recommendation of a relevant authority or commission. The commission has also been given power under Article 264 to determine the emoluments of State officers, councillors, constitutional office holders and Judges, as prescribed. The Emoluments Commission Act No. 1 of 2022 gives effect to the above constitutional provision by setting out a broad framework that seeks to introduce and entrench rationality, harmony and equity in the determination of emoluments in State organs and institutions. The commission is an independent institution that develops and implements a comprehensive and rational Public Service pay policy in order to stimulate greater productivity and performance gains for a competitive, efficient and effective public sector that ultimately leads to sustainable economic development.

Madam Chairperson, the creation of the Commission acknowledges the fact that salaries, benefits and job classifications Government bodies and State institutions exhibit significant inconsistencies, discrepancies, substantial imbalances and differences in terms of pay, job quality and working conditions. In many instances, remuneration fails to accurately represent the level of duties, effectiveness, output, fairness, equity, financial feasibility and long-term viability. The Government is cognisant of the reality that adequate and fair pay is a key component in improving and sustaining the motivation, performance and integrity of the Public Service. Therefore, the determination of adequate pay requires an objective, systematic, methodical and consistent approach that takes into account the economic, political and social realities, which ultimately ensures that there is a linkage between pay, productivity and performance.

Madam Chairperson, the commission has been in operation following the publication of the Commencement Order through Gazette Notice No. 1042 on 6^th July, 2022, and the subsequent appointment of the chairperson and members of the commission in November 2022. Prior to the operationalisation of the commission, the Government had endeavoured to address the issue of pay and essentials challenges in the Public Service. However, the efforts made could not yield the expected results due to ad hoc and piecemeal approach taken in this regard. Additionally, there was no legal framework to govern the systematic determination of emoluments in the Public Service, which resulted in distortions and disparities in salary structures. Consequently, this led to demotivation and attrition through resignation and desertion thereby affecting performance, productivity and service delivery. The operationalisation of the commission, therefore, is aimed at enhancing the capacity of State organs and institutions to attract, retuain and adequately motivate human resource, with the requisite skills and experience for improved service delivery for less time, risk and cost, resulting in greater policy impact, more citizen satisfaction and empowerment.

Madam Chairperson, Section 15 of the Emoluments Commission Act No. 1 of 2022 outlines five mandatory principles that shall guide the commission in its determination of emoluments as follows:

retention of officers and staff in a State organ and institution with the requisite qualifications and skills for improved service delivery;

efficient performance in a State organ or institution;

the need for emoluments that reflect the level of responsibility of a chief or an officer in a State organ or State institution;

enhancement and maintenance of macro-economic stability in the country; and

affordability and sustainability.

Review of the 2023 Budget Performance

Madam Chairperson, during the year under review, the Commission was allocated K31,275,510. The commission, whose functions are aligned to the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) has an enabler under two pillars, namely Pillar 1: Economic Transformation and Job Creation as well as Pillar 4: Good Governance Environment, implemented the following programmes during the period under review:

job evaluation and re-grading in seven institutions;

harmonisation and rationalisation of salaries and conditions of service in fifty State institutions;

development of the Public Sector Integrated Emoluments Determination Framework;

revision and formulation of the Public Sector Pay Policy (PSPP);

development of manuals for rationalisation and harmonisation, and job evaluation and regrading;

processed116 cases related to emoluments determination in State organs and institutions;

development of the strategic plan; and

M$E of adherence to the PSPP in twenty-five institutions.

Strategic Focus

Madam Chairperson, in line with the strategic focus of the Government and the Vision 2030, the commission will, in 2024, embark on various strategic programmes targeted at;

Attainment and maintenance of a clean wage bill in State organs and State institutions;

linking of PSPP to performance and productivity in State organs and State institutions for improved service delivery;

ensuring equity, fairness, transparency and accountability in emoluments determination and management;

undertaking of job evaluation in some State organs and State institutions;

formulation of the PSPP to give guidance on emoluments determination; and

automation of the information management system.

2024 Budget

Madam Chairperson, being a greenfield institution with a wide scope of responsibilities as provided for in the commission Act, No. 1 of 2022, the annual provision for the Emoluments Commission is K31,619,434. The allocation will be utilised to implement two key priority programmes, namely:

Remuneration Management; and

Management and Support Services.

Madam Chairperson, the resources will support the portfolio functions of the commission as well as tasks and operations that will include the following:

Determination, rationalisation and harmonisation of salaries and conditions of service;

job evaluation and regrading;

emoluments research and forecasting;

M&E of the implementation of the PSPP;

policy planning;

benchmarking of best practices in emoluments management; and

development of mechanism for linking pay to performance and productivity.

Madam Chairperson, the commission will endeavour to continue to enhance the capacity of State organs and State institutions to attract, retain and adequately motivate human resources with the requisite skills and experienced for improved service delivery for less time, less risk and low cost resulting in greater policy impact, more citizen satisfaction and empowerment.

Madam Chairperson, I now seek your support and the support of the entire House for the budget for the Emoluments Commission.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Nyambose: Madam Chairperson, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the presentation of the policy statement.

Madam Chairperson, I stand to not support the budget for the Emoluments Commission because this country is a signatory to the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention that allows free bargaining. ILO Convention No. 98 gives leverage to employees to determine and engage their employers depending on the economic situation within their sectors. Employees can engage and bargain for what befits them.

Madam Chairperson, the Emoluments Commission is an animal that is taking away the rights of workers. I do not think that I supported it when it was presented to the House. Even our own Parliamentary Service Commission is affected. Each institution should have its own rights. This commission is against the ILO Convention and is killing the labour movement. We need vibrant trade unions that are going to showcase their skills in bargaining with employers. If this commission is allowed, it will affect productivity and employment. Just recently, the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security dealt with the minimum wage for domestic workers, and I commend her. That is how it is supposed to be. However, this commission that cuts across sectors is against the rights of workers who, for example, in mining, in terms of their challenges, should be able to put up their own case and justify why they need this or that in their sector. They do not need the commission. If you are in the local government sector, you are able to tell, with the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF), how much to increase, and the hon. Minister responsible and the Local G Service Commission (LGSC) are able to look at what percentage they can give. It should not be one-size-fits-all.

Mwambazi, it should not be like that.

Laughter

Mr Nyambose: Madam Chairperson, I run a company, and the Government does not need to determine what salaries I pay my employees as long as the Ministry of Labour and Social Security says that in this sector, this is what you are supposed to pay workers depending on the economic activity and the profits that one makes. However, the commission is going to affect every sector and productivity. We do not need to wait for it to determine what we need because each sector is different and we are affected differently. So, I do not support this budget because it is a wrong commission that we put in place. We need to allow free bargaining under Convention No. 98 of the rights of a worker.

I submit.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson, for according me this opportunity to debate Vote 28, Emoluments Commission.

First and foremost, I want to state that I do not support the budget for this commission, and I totally support my brother, Hon. Nyambose, in saying that the commission is taking away the rights of trade unions. It is a fact that Zambia is a signatory to the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention No. 98 on free collective bargaining. We have been interacting with trade union leaders who have been complaining that even for the commission to clear a collective agreement, it is taking too long. If we are not careful, the commission is going to lead to industrial actions in this country because there is no way it should be determining conditions of service for workers. I believe that it was meant to regulate conditions of service for senior Government officials, Permanent Secretaries (PSs) and Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) in parastatal organisations rather than having trade unions be subjected to it.

Madam Chairperson, the Industrial and Labour Relations Act is clear in saying that once trade unions bargain, collective agreements are supposed to be registered by the Labour Commissioner and the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security is supposed to approve those agreements. It means that we are even taking away the powers of the hon. Minister. So, I believe that there is a problem in the fact that we have not yet amended the Industrial Relations Act because collective agreements are supposed to be deposited at the ministry responsible for labour and social security for approval.

Madam Chairperson, we have three wings of the Government; the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. I believe that even Judges are opposed to this because they have the Judicial Service Commission (JSC), which is supposed to determine their conditions of services. The Legislature is also one of the three arms of the Government. Surely, can the Legislature be subjected or subordinated to the commission when we are the people who approve the commission’s budget. There is no way we can be subjected to the commission. So, I believe that there is a need for the hon. Minister to come to this august House and repeal the piece of legislation so that the National Assembly, the Legislature, can determine its own conditions of service.

Madam Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

(MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair)

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1844 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 8^thNovember, 2023.

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Tuesday, 7th November, 2023

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