Thursday, 9^th November, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government business, the Minister of Defence, Hon. Ambrose L. Lufuma, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, 9^th November, 2023, until further notice.

I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

PRESENCE OF JOURNALISM STUDENTS FROM EVELYN HONE COLLEGE OF APPLIED ARTS AND COMMERCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of Students of journalism from Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce Management Board in Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR CHIBOMBWE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR BAHATI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON ERYTHROMYCIN IN PROCURED HEALTH KITS FAILING THE DISSOLUTION TEST

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, my matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, recently, the Government procured health centre kits from a company called Missionpharma Logistics Limited. However, a drug called Erythromycin contained in the health centre kits failed the dissolution test at the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) because when it is dropped into a glass of water, it does not dissolve. Equally, when it is swallowed, it remains in a solid state in the abdomen.

Mr Kangombe: Did you swallow it?

Laughter

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, it is a notorious fact that Erythromycin and other drugs contained in the health centre kits are defective. So, is the hon. Minister of Health, my colleague and elder sister, in order to remain silent and not clarify this matter?

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bahati, thank you very much for raising this issue. However, do you have any document to support what you are saying; that the Erythromycin does not dissolve?

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister needs to bring the test results of this drug from ZAMRA.

Madam Speaker: We all need health kits because we never know when we can get sick. Since the hon. Minister is here, she can shed light on the matter now or, maybe, at a later date.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for bringing up this matter, although I will issue a ministerial statement on it.

Madam Speaker, as you are aware, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Ministry of Health, under the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), ordered 42,000 health kits, which are supposed to last a year. The first consignment came in some time this year. Then, there was a second consignment, and we recently received the third consignment of about 7,000 kits, which are going to be distributed countrywide.

Madam Speaker, as you know, the kits consist of different types of drugs. I think, there are about thirty-four drugs in one kit. When we import drugs, another wing of the Government called the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) is there to regulate. So, every time drugs come in, they are tested so that we are sure that they are safe for consumption. After drugs are distributed to health facilities, sometimes, they are recalled if there is a failure in their performance. In this regard, when we received the last consignment, ZAMRA checked all the kits, but one of the drugs among the thirty-four failed the test. Therefore, ZAMRA directed ZAMMSA to remove that particular drug from the health kits and informed the supplier in India about that and gave evidence that the drug failed the test. This means that the supplier will replace the drug.

Madam Speaker, in fact, as a country, we must be happy that ZAMRA is doing its job effectively. Therefore, suppliers should not assume that one tablet among the 100 that they give us will miss the test just because the ninety-nine are of good quality. This underscores the fact that ZAMRA is now effective in ensuring that Zambians only consume drugs that are of good quality. However, drugs may pass the test, but if they are not stored properly, it is possible for them to fail the test when ZAMRA undertakes random testing. I, therefore, assure Zambians that they are safe and that this Government will continue to get only that which is good for them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: As per practice, hon. Members would like to ask questions, and there are several indications on the screen. I know that the hon. Member for Mkushi North wants to raise a matter of urgent public importance. So, we will start with the hon. Member for Chitambo.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, which supplier supplied this defective medicine and is the Government going to continue dealing with him?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the supplier is Missionpharma Logistics Limited, a company that has been supplying us health kits for two decades now but, somewhere along the way, it fell out with the previous Administration because the previous Administration failed to pay it. When the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government took over power, it renegotiated with the supplier and paid what was owed by the previous Administration. Then it got into a new contract with the supplier to supply 42,000 kits that will last a year, but one of the drugs failed the test. This is not strange in this kind of business, and we cannot stop working with the supplier because one product failed the test. Just in case hon. Members do not know, this happens. Sometimes, a supplier will supply drugs but, like I said, if a drug is not kept properly in the pharmacy, it can lose its effectiveness.

Dr Chilufya: Its efficacy.

Mrs Masebo: There are many Ministers of Health here.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, all I can say is that we will continue getting supplies from the said company, and the drug that failed the test will be replaced.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: We are lucky that we have the former Minister of Health, the hon. Member for Mansa Central. So, I will give him an opportunity to ask a question after the hon. Member for Pambashe.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, medicines that are distributed are consumed by the general citizenry. Can the hon. Minister assure Zambians that the medicines that failed the test have not been distributed to the health centres?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the last consignment has not yet been distributed. I am aware that ZAMMSA is ensuring that the drug in question is removed from every package. So, instead of the drugs in one kit being thirty-five, they will be less by one. That is the one that will be kept for the supplier because, sometimes, a supplier argues when you tell him that a drug has a problem and he puts the blame on the recipient. So, the supplier will have to confirm that it was not our problem, but his, so that he replaces the drug. We have a long-standing contract with the supplier and, obviously, he has no choice but to make good of that which will be said to be not okay. So, the people of Zambia are very safe. In fact, we must be happy that we have a regulatory body, ZAMRA, that tells its sister agency, ZAMMSA, when drugs are not okay and should not be distributed. We should be happy that there is a Government wing that is working freely without interference from the Ministry of Health.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Chilufya (Mansa Central): Madam Speaker, the preamble to my question is that what the hon. Minister is talking about is basically the science of pharmacovigilance, and that is not new and has not been introduced by the New Dawn Government. It is the science of detecting and assessing the adverse effects of medicines along the supply chain at the entry point, before distribution, at the point of dispensing and even after consumption. Any adverse reaction along the process is part of pharmacovigilance, and that is the reason the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) was established in this country. We were able, in the past, to even detect negative –

Hon. Government Members: What is the question?

Dr Chilufya: That is reason we were even able, in the past, to pick up –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Ask the question. Do not debate.

Dr Chilufya: Let me summarise the preamble.

Madam Speaker, I support the hon. Minister of Health’s position that what has happened cannot be criminalised, and that it normally happens. Every year, drugs worth billions of dollars are recalled globally because of pharmacovigilance. So, we will not politicise this issue, but will recognise that it is part of the science of pharmacovigilance.

Mr Mwila: Quality!

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is: Has the Government done a formal recall of Erythromycin and, indeed, other products that failed the test? Further, what is the impact on the distribution of medicines countrywide?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the Member of Parliament, the former hon. Minister, for this question.

Madam Speaker, this is not about science, but reality. There is an agency of the Government that procures drugs and another whose job is to regulate. When you import certain products, the regulator will tell you whether they are good or not. So, it is not a recall. The drugs were found to be wanting on the ground and are still at ZAMRA, which has not yet authorised ZAMMSA to distribute them. The problem is that people try to be smart, if I may use that word.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

If I heard correctly, the hon. Member for Mansa Central said that the issue should not be politicised because that happens anywhere. So, let us take it as such.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much, once again, –

Interruptions

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, I need to be protected from the hon. Ministers seated in front of me.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen to the question.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members on my right!

Proceed, hon. Member for Bahati.

Mr Chibombwe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your protection.

Madam Speaker, I know that quality assurance is done where the medicines come from. However, my simple question to the hon. Minister is: How many more drugs are defective and fake in the health centre kits that were bought in?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I have explained that all the kits that were brought in the country have been checked, but one of the products in them has been found wanting. I try to use basic language for Zambians to understand. I am not here to lecture anybody, and I am using simple language because the people I am speaking to out there, the vulnerable women in Chongwe, do not understand science. We imported thirty-five different types of drugs and only one of those has been found wanting. I said that this is not the first time this has happened and it will not be the last. The regulatory body has a role to play, and its job is to police ZAMMSA to ensure that it does not buy poor quality drugs.

Madam Speaker, of course, sometimes, people will do things that are unethical, but the Government does not tolerate corruption, ensures that everybody knows their work and that there is no interference. This means that we are safe because we are sure that when something is wrong, it will be said to be wrong, and when it is right, it will be said to be right. I want hon. Members to be comfortable that this Administration means well for the people of Zambia. Systems are being developed, and they are working. The future is bright and Zambians are safe under President HH (Hakainde Hichilema) and the UPND Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: There are many indications, but we are behind time and there is another matter of urgent public importance. So, I will allow only three hon. Members to ask questions. Please, be precise so that we make progress.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that Missionpharma Logistics Limited will not be penalised for supplying the defective drug and endangering the lives of Zambians. What explanation did the company give for including the defective drug in the kits?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, I think, it is a bit too early to get to the point of penalisation. Right now, ZAMMSA is removing the defective drug from the kits so that the kits can be distributed. We are actually behind time because ZAMRA had to check every item in the kits in accordance with the laid-down procedure. There is a procedure that is followed, and I do not want to mislead the House. ZAMMSA follows the procedure and ZAMRA does it work professionally. I am aware that the supplier will be informed of what transpired and asked to replace. I think, the hon. Member is moving too fast because we have not yet got to that level. ZAMMSA has just been informed of the development. I will come back and issue a detailed statement on the steps that will be taken and the supplier’s response. It will be premature for me to think that it was deliberate on the supplier’s part, considering that we had no problem with the last two supplies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister will come and issue a more detailed ministerial statement. So, you will ask questions when the ministerial statement is delivered, but before I proceed, there were indications for two points of orders by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi and the hon. Member for Pambashe.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I should have raised this point of order contemporaneously. However, it is compelling, and it is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(1)(b).

Madam Speaker, I was shocked to hear the whole lot of the hon. Member of Parliament for Bahati ask for protection from you. I was wondering what protection he wanted because he is too big to ask for protection from you.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: What was the point of him asking for protection, looking at his body, Madam Speaker?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I believe, the hon. Member for Bahati was seeking protection because there were many interjections. As the House is aware, it is only the Presiding Officer who grants protection when there are interjections. So, even if the hon. Member for Bahati is big, he still needs protection. He is just joining the people of Dundumwezi.

Laughter

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the hon. Minister of Health according to Standing Order No. 65, on the imputing of improper motives and ensuring that the information an hon. Member provides is factual.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mansa Central asked about the normal procedure of a recall. A recall does not mean that a drug has to be sent back, but is a form which is supposed to be signed so that the World Health Organisation (WHO) and other laboratories can look at that drug. Was the hon. Minister in order to tell the hon. Member of Parliament for Mansa Central that he was acting clever when he was just seeking clarity on the procedure?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Pambashe, if you were following the proceedings, you know that I indicated that the hon. Member for Mansa Central was actually supporting what the hon. Minister was saying and that the question was asked in good faith. So, we have already dealt with that.

Can we make progress.

MR C. CHIBUYE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MKUSHI NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, MR KAPALA, ON POWER OUTAGES

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, the matter that I wish to raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Energy, although I cannot see him in the House. So, the Leader of Government Business in the House can take it up.

Madam Speaker, of late, there have been power outages in many parts in the country, and Mkushi North Constituency is no exception. We have had power outages for the past two weeks, which has affected most small businesses our people do, such as welding, and they use power to sell other merchandise. I am also alive to the fact that the power outrages are affecting mortuaries. Families are forced to bury the deceased in the shortest period of time for fear of bodies getting decomposed. Is the hon. Minister of Energy in order to not tell this House and, indeed, the general public the reason we are having power outages, especially in Mkushi North Parliamentary Constituency and, in particular, Masansa?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that matter of urgent public importance, but I advise you to file in a question of urgent nature, which can be processed next week.

Let us make progress. We have a lot of business to transact.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

ANTHRAX OUTBREAK IN THE COUNTRY

The Minister of Livestock and Fisheries (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for according me this opportunity to render a ministerial statement aimed at updating this august House and the nation at large on the recent outbreak of anthrax in animals. This is in response to your directive that I issue a ministerial statement on the subject arising from the matter of urgent public importance that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola Constituency on Tuesday, 7^th November, 2023. The hon. Member wanted to know the status and extent of the outbreak in his constituency as well as other parts of the country, and he also enquired on the measures being taken by the Government to control the disease. Through this ministerial statement, I wish to not only share the current status of the outbreak as it pertains to Katombola Constituency, but also to inform this august House and the entire nation the current status of the disease across the country. This is important because the outbreak has caused some concerns among our people and, as a responsible Government, it is our duty to move in and take appropriate action to save both the lives of our people, who are also getting affected, and that of their livestock.

Madam Speaker, because of the important nature of this subject, and acknowledging that it is affecting many people, it will be remise of me to neglect to share sufficient background to the topic of disease control before venturing into discussing the current status of the outbreak in Katombola and the country at large. This will ensure that we are all on the same page and will not only help us to understand and appreciate what the Government is doing, but will also enable us to play our part in bringing the outbreak under control.

Madam Speaker, animal diseases, just like human diseases, occur at various intervals within animal populations, and their occurrence ranges from natural factors, such as environmental conditions, the immune status of the animals and their movement patterns. In response, the ministry has developed several disease control protocols to address disease outbreaks. These protocols are based on current scientific knowledge and are implemented by my officers. It should, however, be pointed out that the successful implementation of the protocols relies heavily on the co-operation of our farmers and other stakeholders to ultimately result in effective disease control.

Madam Speaker, as part of the disease control protocols, the Government has classified diseases into two main categories, namely:

1. diseases of national economic importance, for whose control the Government is responsible; and

1. management diseases, for whose prevention and control the farmers are responsible with support from the Government through extension services.

For zoonotic diseases, which are diseases that affect both animals and humans, the Government controls them when there are outbreaks so as to save human life, and this is regardless of the categorisation of the diseases. Anthrax falls under zoonotic diseases because in endemic or high-risk areas, when there is no disease outbreak, it is the farmer’s responsibility to ensure that the animals are vaccinated to avert loss of livestock. When there is an outbreak, as is the case currently, the Government moves in to avert escalation of the outbreak.

Madam Speaker, let me now address the status of the disease outbreak in Katombola Constituency and the measures the Government has put in place to control it.

Madam Speaker, our investigations reveal that there is prevalence of the disease in Katombola Constituency, largely around Kazungula District. The disease first broke out in cattle in Sianamunyama Village of Bombwe Veterinary Camp on 16^th September, 2023. Sixteen kraals were affected, and that resulted in forty-eighty mortalities in cattle. Following the outbreak, the ministry moved in to implement disease control protocols meant to curb disease outbreaks. The protocols included the following:

1. under blanket vaccinations, the ministry targeted the vaccination of the entire 33,000 cattle population in Kazungula. On 2^nd November, 2023, 33,000 doses of the vaccine were dispatched to the district. Out of that, 28,039 cattle, representing 85 per cent coverage, have been vaccinated;

1. decontamination of grave sites. This is done by incineration, burying and use of chemicals to reduce environmental contamination, thereby reducing occurrence of new cases and preventing future outbreaks;
2. sensitisation and awareness creation in communities on the dangers of handling and consuming meat from animals that die on their own. This is being done through meetings in communities and radio programmes;
3. ban on all slaughters and movement of animals and animal products in and out of the affected districts, including Kazungula District. This is still in force; and

1. heightened surveillance in all affected areas to ensure early warning of the disease.

Madam Speaker, it is envisaged that the implementation of the mentioned interventions, coupled with support of all stakeholders in the district and the constituency, will bear fruit and help to bring the disease under control. In this regard, it may please this honourable House to learn that in the last five days, we have not recorded any death of livestock in Kazungula District.

Madam Speaker, let me now give an update on the status of the outbreak in other parts of the country. Currently, confirmed cases of the disease have been recorded in three provinces affecting, eleven districts. The affected provinces are the Southern, Western and Eastern, and I will give information on the status of the disease in the affected districts.

Madam Speaker, apart from the outbreak being in Kazungula District, which I have already adequately addressed, the two other districts affected in the Southern Province are Sinazongwe and Kalomo. The ministry received reports from Sinazongwe District about incidents of anthrax in hippos and, later, in humans sometime in July 2023. In August 2023, mortalities in livestock were reported. Tissue samples from the dead animals were collected and submitted to the Central Veterinary Research Institute (CVRI) and Choma Laboratory. The samples tested positive for anthrax. To date, 245 cattle have died of the disease in Sinazongwe District. Following the implementation of a comprehensive vaccination programme and other disease control protocols, I am glad to report to this House that in the last four days, we have not recorded any deaths of livestock in Sinazongwe. This is against the backdrop of the fact that as at 6^th November, 2023, 67,164 cattle out of a population of 69,506, representing 96 per cent, had been vaccinated in Sinazongwe District. The disease was also reported in Kanchele Veterinary Camp on 27^th October, 2023. Six cattle mortalities were recorded as of 5^th November, 2023. Comprehensive vaccinations have started, and as of 7^th November, 2023, 11,718 cattle had been vaccinated, and the process is ongoing. It will please this House to note that in the last three days, we have not recorded any deaths in Kalomo District.

Madam Speaker, an outbreak of anthrax was also reported in Nalolo District, with twelve mortalities in cattle, in two veterinary camps, namely Muoyo and Mwandi. In Mongu District, anthrax was reported, with nine confirmed anthrax-related deaths in cattle in Luandui Veterinary Camp. In Senanga District, twelve cases of anthrax in cattle have been reported in Nande, Sibukali and Lukanda veterinary camps. In Sesheke District, cases of anthrax have been reported in five cattle, one goat, two dogs and one hippo.

Laughter

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, cases of anthrax have been reported in five cattle, one goat, two dogs and one hippo in Sesheke Central Veterinary Camp.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, 10,000 doses of the anthrax vaccine have been dispatched to Sesheke to control the disease. In Sioma District, nine cattle and one hippo have died from anthrax in Sioma Central, Nangweshi, Sinjembela and Mulele veterinary camps.

Madam Speaker, the ministry received reports from Lumezi District of anthrax cases in wildlife and humans. It was reported that nineteen hippos had died on the Luangwa River. The human cases were linked to the consumption of meat from the hippo carcasses. There has, however, not been any reports of livestock cases. This notwithstanding, 15,000 doses of the vaccine have been sent to Lumezi to commence vaccination of livestock in the district.

Madam Speaker, in addition to the confirmed cases that I have shared, the ministry has also received reports of suspected cases of anthrax in Mumbwa, Mpika, Lavushimanda, Shiwang’andu, Kasempa and Zambezi districts. The cases are being investigated and are yet to be verified through laboratory tests.

Madam Speaker, arising from the status of the disease in this country, the ministry has, in addition to enhancing the disease control protocols that I earlier alluded to, decided to conduct comprehensive vaccinations in all the eleven affected districts. In addition, twenty-three districts have been classified as high-risk areas due to their proximity to the eleven affected districts or on account of being endemic to anthrax. There will also be enhanced surveillance as well as vaccinations in those districts.

Madam Speaker, the ministry, in line with the disease control protocols, has increased the production of the anthrax vaccine to a maximum of 150,000 doses every seven days. It should, however, be noted that the current vaccine demand arising from this unprecedented anthrax outbreak remains higher than the production capacity of the CVRI. To bridge the gap, the Government is already exploring avenues for securing additional vaccines through imports to meet the demand. In this light, allow me to take this opportunity to make a clarion call to the private sector to show up and partner with the Government in procuring vaccines, as this provides a viable business opportunity for them.

Madam Speaker, as can be seen from the interventions made, the ministry is doing everything possible, working with other stakeholders, to ensure that the outbreak is brought under control across the country in the shortest possible time. In this regard, the ministry will continue to monitor and review the situation, and give updates and guidance on the disease control measures.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, may I take this opportunity to thank His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for the support given to the ministry in its efforts to control animal diseases. Further, I wish to extend my gratitude to all the co-operating partners, stakeholders and farmers for their co-operation as we work together in controlling animal diseases in the country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: That was a long ministerial statement. So, I will add five minutes, making it eighteen minutes for questions.

Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, that was a timely response to the outbreak of anthrax, which has hit many animals. Cattle are a store of wealth. Is the Government considering compensating the farmers who have lost their animals to anthrax?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank Mr President, …

Laughter

Mr Chikote: … the hon. Member for Matero, for this question.

Madam Speaker, we are ensuring that the disease is brought under control. For now, farmers who lost their animals will not be compensated, but we are providing technical support to ensure that the disease is controlled.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Katombola, to ask a question. Allow me to thank the hon. Minister for the long, excellent and robust ministerial statement. However, what long-term measures has the Government put in place to ensure that the outbreak does not occur again?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, indeed, as a Government that cares for its people, we are looking at long-term solutions. Firstly, we are ensuring that vaccines are available to farmers and that there are vaccines in all endemic areas, going forward, because it has been a challenge for small-scale farmers to access vaccines. Secondly, the experts will come up with a roadmap that will guide all farmers in the livestock sector and ensure that they vaccinate their animals to prevent any loss. So, there is a lot that we are considering in terms of controlling diseases in this country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, in Botswana, when there is such an outbreak, they normally kill all the animals and compensate the farmers because not every farmer has access to the vaccine. My question is: Why can the Government not do the same so that we prevent this disease completely? I must declare interest because I lost most of my animals and have only remained with one.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s concern is serious, but I assure her that we can prevent anthrax in the country. We are destroying all the affected animals to ensure that the disease does not spread. However, the people in Botswana eradicated the Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP) using the formula the hon. Member mentioned, not anthrax. So, if you heard that animals were cleared in Botswana, it was because of CBPP, not anthrax. However, we can prevent anthrax. So, the livestock in the country is safe.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the livestock sector is key to wealth creation at the household level for the majority farmers. The hon. Minister has mentioned that three provinces have been affected. What measures has the ministry put in place to ensure that there is no illegal movement of slaughtered animals from one province to another to ensure that the anthrax does not spread to the seven other provinces in Zambia?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question.

Madam Speaker, firstly, we have enhanced surveillance and put in place early-warning systems in all strategic areas. Secondly, we have increased the number of roadblocks and we intend to mount many checkpoints to control the movement of animals. In the districts that I listed, there is already a restriction on the movement of live animals and animal products to other parts of the country. Our goal is to ensure that the disease does not spread to other districts that have not been affected. So, we are on top of things. We have put in place many measures, and other ministries are coming on board to help us to fight the disease.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, I am grateful to you for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Kwacha, to ask the hon. Minister a question.

Madam Speaker, anthrax is a deadly disease and a serious threat to the health of any person who consumes the meat of an infected animal. Further, we have heard reports of many of the livestock being slaughtered to prevent the disease from spreading. What measures is the ministry putting in place to ensure that meat from animals that have been slaughtered does not find itself in butcheries and other outlets to prevent people from consuming it?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, in terms of what the Government is doing to ensure that the meat that the people are consuming is safe, I mentioned that we have restricted the movement of livestock products. No product will be moved from the areas that I mentioned. Some of the interventions that we have put in place are multi-sectoral. For example, we are working with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, through the councils, to enhance the inspection of all outlets where livestock products are sold, though not all livestock have anthrax, and I want to make that clear. We are also encouraging people to buy meat products from registered outlets and avoid unregistered ones, and hon. Members should help us to explain this to our people who like to do things that are not right. People should avoid buying meat in the streets and from people who sell meat in their cars. Instead, they should buy from registered outlets, which are verified by experts, and that is why the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and the Ministry of Health have come on board. All of us are working towards defeating the disease. So, stop alarming the citizens that all meat products have anthrax. Unh unh!

Laughter

Mr Chikote: Unh unh means no.

Madam Speaker, I encourage people to buy meat products from registered outlets, which have been inspected, verified and are safe for consumption. People should not buy meat products from tuntemba, especially that which is put in ukwa bags, because it is not certain whether those products were inspected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, is the Government going to give animals that are in provinces where there is no anthrax preventive drugs?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I stated that the Government is reviewing the information it is collecting every day. So, we will not rush to vaccinate the animals that are in places that have not yet been affected because it is not advisable to do that, but all our staff are alert.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, there are 123,000 people in Dundumwezi, meaning that there may be more than 50,000 or 60,000 animals, but there are only three camp officers. Is the Government considering sending more officers to Dundumwezi to enhance the monitoring system?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I am aware that our extension staff across the country are not enough, and the New Dawn Administration will make sure that the number of extension officers is adequate for the farmers. However, the Government will hire people to beef up the interventions being implemented to prevent the outbreak, and this is an emergency. So, we will go a mile further and hire officers to help us to implement the interventions that we have come up with.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the outbreak of anthrax in the country affects the lives of our people and livestock, and has an economic impact on the nation. The sales of meat products across the country have gone down and most businesses have been heavily affected because people are not buying meat products. What assurance can the hon. Minister give the nation pertaining to the consumption of meat products? Further, how many people have died from the outbreak of anthrax in the country?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I want to repeat that we should encourage our people to buy livestock products only in outlets that are registered because the products in those outlets were examined and are safe for consumption. Further, this Government is taking a multi-sectorial approach to the outbreak of the disease. I mentioned that the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development have come on board to ensure that meat products brought onto the market are safe for consumption. Therefore, I encourage hon. Members and the citizens at large to adhere to the guidance that the Government is providing. People should follow what we are saying then we will do the right thing. However, not all livestock products have anthrax. Meat products that were examined by the experts are safe for consumption.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: We have exhausted our time. I can see that there is still a lot of interest from hon. Members, especially those who come from the infested areas and, I am sure, from the consumers and owners of animals. So, we can continue interacting with the hon. Minister. Otherwise, we have a lot of work and we need to catch up. Apologies.

_______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

ENGINEERING INSTITUTE OF ZAMBIA COMPELLING ALL CONTRACTORS TO REGISTER WITH IT

138. Mr J. Chibuye (Roan) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government is aware that the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ) has been compelling all contractors to register with the institute despite contractors not being regulated by the EIZ; and

1. if so, what measures are being taken to stop the practice, which is not supported by law.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware that the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ) has been compelling all contractors to register with it.

Madam Speaker, the ministry and the Business Regulatory Review Agency have been working with the EIZ and the National Council for Construction (NCC) towards the amicable resolution of this matter, as the problem stems out of statute. The Ministry of Justice has also been engaged to help resolve the issue.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response.

Madam Speaker, I have heard the response. However, the National Council for Construction Act No. 10 of 2022 provides for the promotion, development and regulation of the construction industry so as to promote economic growth and competitiveness. Further, the National Council for Construction (NCC) has a school, which trains contractors. In the same vein, the Engineering Institution of Zambia Act No. 17 of 2010 clearly states that the Engineering Institute of Zambia’s (EIZ’s) mandate is to regulate the engineering profession. Why has the EIZ been collecting money from contractors whom it does not regulate, and when it rarely visits construction sites?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan for the follow-up question. This gives me an opportunity to explain what I meant by the problem arising out of the statute, and why we are taking the measures that we are taking to have the matter amicably resolved.

Madam Speaker, under Section 4 of the Engineering Institute of Zambia Act No. 17 of 2010, one of the functions of the EIZ is to register engineering professionals, engineering organisations and engineering units, and to regulate their professional conduct. An engineering organisation, as defined under Section 3 of the same Act, means a statutory corporation, a company, a firm, a partnership, and an association or other body, corporate or uncorporate, that provides a service through the application of scientific or mathematical laws and principles in the design, development, utilisation, maintenance or disposal of machines, materials, instruments, structures, processes and operational systems or whose function involves the planning, designing, processing and delivery of engineering products and services. The above definition encompasses contractors who practice under engineering organisations, such as civil engineering firms.

Madam Speaker, let me assure the hon. Member that both the EIZ and the NCC are under my ministry and that this matter will, therefore, be resolved amicably soon. According to the law that I read, the EIZ and the NCC’s mandates are to register contractors, and that is why we have involved the Ministry of Justice to see what can be done to resolve the matter. Another point is that we will do what we can to ensure that the EIZ is supported, as it plays a vital role in regulating engineering works in this country. So, the measures that we will take will result in a situation in which contractors and the EIZ are all protected in the interest of the nation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, the National Council for Construction Act and the Engineering Institution of Zambia Act are very clear, like the hon. Minister has put it. In this matter, the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ) has mandated all contractors in the country to register as entities under it to qualify to participate, especially in Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects. At the same time, contractors are disadvantaged because they are supposed to produce an NCC certificate to qualify for community projects. So, they are supposed to have the EIZ and NCC certificates to qualify for community projects. Is it possible, therefore, that having only one of the certificates can be a criterion for awarding contractors community projects? It is very difficult for emerging contractors to get EIZ certificates. So, they end up hiring them from professional engineers. So, is it possible to waive one of the requirements so that contractors can benefit from CDF projects?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kaumbwe for this question.

Madam Speaker, as of now, the law is being interpreted correctly. The NCC does, indeed, register contractors and ensures that they carry out their work. That is why there is a training school. The EIZ is mandated to ensure that the practice of engineering in the country is as it should be. That is why those practising engineering must have the requisite training and skills like other professions, such as accountants and medical doctors. That is why when one forms a company of an engineering nature, the people in management and in the board must have the requisite training and skills. That is what the law provides and, I think, it is in the interest of the nation. However, sometimes, as in other professions, people try to cut corners. We have had consultants supervise works that turned out to be shoddy, and I can give many examples, but there is no time. We go to those institutions to find out why their members did not perform as expected, and there are sanctions for that. That protects Government resources and the citizens of this country. I think, this question is arising from the fact that because of dual registration, maybe, there is financial stress. We will look at all these factors to protect both the EIZ as well as the contractors. If it is necessary that we amend the law or enact another law, obviously, this House will be fully involved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan Constituency for the important question that he has asked the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Madam Speaker, I am sorry to say that there is a lot of mediocrity today in the construction industry. Contractors have brought the name of the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ) into ridicule because of the nature of work that they produce. Would the hon. Minister make it a requirement that whenever a contractor who is registered with the EIZ is given a contract, he reports to the institute so that members of the EIZ are on the ground and inspect, stage by stage, what he is doing (pointing at the hon. Minister)? Right now, –

Interruptions

Mr Twasa: I apologise, Madam Speaker, I was pointing at the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. My apologies to him.

Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister make that a requirement to make sure that the contractors do the right work? In my case, 80 per cent of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects are shoddy. Those projects were done by contractors who are registered with the EIZ, bringing the name of the institute into ridicule.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, this is precisely the issue that is at hand, as described by the hon. Member for Kasenengwa. Since there is a shortage of opportunities in this country, construction has attracted many people, some of whom do not have skills or expertise. If we are not careful, this will result in a situation in which the country loses lots of money and the lives and safety of citizens are threatened because of the nature of the buildings or roads that are constructed. This year, a house under construction somewhere in Lusaka collapsed, and an inspection revealed that there was a lot of shoddy work and not conformity to certain standards.

Madam Speaker, engineering is a profession. That is why those who want to refer to me by my correct title say ‘Eng. Charles Milupi’. There is something inherent in the use of that title, just like when you call someone a doctor. In order for the country to benefit from professionalism, there is a need for people to register with the EIZ because when there is an incident, such as the one that I referred to, we hold the EIZ to account. When shoddy work has been done and consultants have not performed well, we hold the EIZ to account and it takes action to protect the country and itself.

Madam Speaker, as long as we have pressure on contracting, we will get all sorts of people who have no skills registering companies and seeking work. Institutions must ensure that the work that is carried out is to the required standard, and the EIZ, as mandated by the law, must ensure that engineering companies have qualified and experienced people, be they technicians or engineers, who are registered at various levels. When one is constructing a house, one is practising engineering. So, these are the matters that we will delve into. Ultimately, we must have a situation in which any construction anywhere results in facilities that give comfort to the people of this country that they are safe and we also protect the resources of this country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I have very high esteem for my elder brother, Hon. Eng. Milupi, but I still want to be clear on this matter. At a construction company, there are mechanical engineers, electrical engineers and civil engineers, and those subscribe to the EIZ. However, the EIZ asks the same company again to subscribe to it. However, whilst the NCC does impromptu check-ups on construction sites, the EIZ does not do that, and that is why the house that the hon. Minister talked about collapsed. The question the contractors are asking is: What benefits are they drawing from the EIZ, which only wakes up when it is time to receive money from institutions?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is right. Professionals in various categories are registered with the EIZ, as I explained. Companies that practise engineering which, according to the law, I think, are called body corporates, are also registered. Maybe, because of the way the EIZ has conducted itself, the hon. Member has indicated that there has been no benefit. The EIZ only comes in when things have failed. So, this is one matter that we ought to look at and see how the EIZ can be more active to ensure that professionals registered under it understand the importance of being professional in what they do, and that companies registered under it also perform according to expectation. I think, when it does all that, it will improve the quality of engineering works in this country, which is what we all want.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses.

Madam Speaker, multi-registration does not only affect contractors, but also consultants, who have to register with the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ) and the Association of Consulting Engineers of Zambia (ACEZ), which plays a different role with regard to engineering. What is the ministry doing to see to it that there is value for money when subscriptions are made to the EIZ? The issue is that the EIZ just collects subscriptions, but when it comes to inspecting engineering works, it is nowhere to be seen. So, what is the ministry doing to enhance compliance with regard to the terms and conditions that are attached to some construction projects?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the Member for Chadiza, Hon. Eng. Daka. He is in the profession. So, he knows what he is talking about.

Madam Speaker, I think, the issue here is that people want to see these institutions perform their functions rather than just collect funds. Hon. Eng. Daka and I, and other engineers who belong to these institutions should raise these points in our meetings and interactions so that the institutions can begin to do that which is expected. I assure Hon. Eng. Daka that as we work towards resolving this problem, the EIZ and registered engineers performing their role is uppermost in our minds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, my question has been asked, but I will ask another one. Since it has been established that there is no legal framework, per se, that mandates the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ) to collect subscriptions from a company except from the unit of engineering within an institution, does the ministry have any plans to harmonise that so that there is only one subscription?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, there is a legal framework for the institutions to collect fees. Maybe, the question is about duplication. The law that I read, quite clearly, indicates that the institutions have every legal right to be involved and because they are involved, they collect fees. I think, the original question was about the NCC compelling all contractors to register with it. However, both institutions are informed by existing laws. That is what we need to look at and harmonise.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, my question is a bit different. It is cumbersome to affiliate with two institutions, and I know that we subscribe to these institutions every year. Is the hon. Minister not thinking of extending the period of renewal from one year to two or three years?

Madam Speaker: Today, we are dealing with engineers.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, as Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, I am mandated to protect the EIZ and other institutions. When these institutions are professional, the country benefits. However, the hon. Member is asking whether the fees can be paid after two or five years. I think, that is up to a particular institution. For example, when a person pays K10 per annum, and another one K50 for five years, it amounts to the same thing, but it might be more onerous on the institution. So, that is a matter that can be discussed by managements of institutions without financially disadvantaging those institutions because the country needs the professional bodies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Kalabo Central.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, like the hon. Member for Kaumbwe, I thank the hon. Member for Roan for asking this question, which affects many people in this country.

Madam Speaker, I am sure, the hon. Minister knows that in district councils, there are Directors of Works and Deputy Directors of Works who, I believe, are qualified engineers of different spheres who subscribe to the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ). A contractor is awarded a project by a council where there are engineers who subscribe to the EIZ. What makes it difficult for the EIZ to follow up their member, who is also an employee of the council, so that there is collaboration between the council and the EIZ?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, generally, things in this country have gone down. We saw in the past how things in this country were done when roads and buildings were being constructed. The engineering practice went down, hence the state of our infrastructure. Let me give the hon. Member an example. Way back, the work that used to be done on some roads in his constituency, where I grew up, was better in spite of the fact that the ones who were doing it may not have had engineering qualifications, such as degrees and diploma. So, it is a mammoth task to get this profession back to performing the way it should, and that is what we, as the Government, are determined to do. When we see work that has not been done according to the profession, not only is the contractor held accountable, but is the EIZ, too. That is what we are doing, and we are getting responses to some of the issues being raised. Ultimately, over time, we will engage supervisors in councils or, indeed, consultants to ensure that companies perform. We see poor workmanship on roads or buildings, yet consultants are engaged and paid sums of money to ensure that proper work is done. In several cases, that is not being done. Our role is to ensure that we get everyone to pull up their socks to safeguard the resources of this country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

BILLS

REPORT STAGE

The Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Bill, 2023

The Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2023

Report adopted.

Third Readings on Friday, 10^th November, 2023.

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police Service – K2,637,623,403).

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to present the policy statement for Vote 11, Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service is responsible for the provision and maintenance of internal security. The core functions of the service are outlined in Article 193(2) of the Constitution of Zambia, Amendment, Act No.2 of 2016 as follows:

1. protect life and property;

1. preserve peace, and maintain law and order;

1. ensure the security of the people;

1. detect and prevent crime;

1. uphold the Bill of Rights;

1. foster and promote a good relationship with the defence force, other national security services and members of society; and

1. perform other functions as prescribed.

Madam Chairperson, the mission statement of the Zambia Police Service is “To enforce the law for a safe and secure environment through reforms.” In 2023, the situation in the country has been peaceful generally. The Zambia Police Service has been implementing a number of strategies in order to reduce crime. The strategies include the following:

1. hotspot policing;
2. community policing;
3. intelligence policing;
4. foot and motorised patrols; and
5. engagement of the public through various platforms, such as radio programmes, television programmes and drama shows.

Challenges Faced

Madam Chairperson, in the year under review, the Zambia Police Service experienced a number of challenges that negatively affected its service delivery. These include:

1. low staffing levels. The current number of police officers policing the nation is inadequate. Population growth and other factors have increased the demand for policing services in the country. Currently, there are 21,944 police officers in the Zambia Police Service policing a population of 20 million people. This represents a policing ratio of one police officer to 894 citizens, which is below the United Nation’s (UN’s) recommended standard policing ratio of one police officer to 450 citizens;

1. non-payment of personal emoluments. As of 30^th June, 2023, outstanding arrears on personal emoluments stood at K176,846,792.55;
2. outstanding debt. As of 30^th June, 2023, the Zambia Police Service had an outstanding debt of K434,073,846 on the supply of goods and services;
3. inadequate transport. The current fleet for the Zambia Police Service stands at 520 motor vehicles against the ideal number of 1,857 motor vehicles, creating a deficit of 1,337. This has contributed to the administrative and operational challenges faced by the institution. However, I am glad to inform the House that the Government procured motor vehicles for the police in all the constituencies in the country using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The vehicles are available and ready for distribution.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: This will mitigate the current transport challenges the institution is facing; and

1. inadequate staff and office accommodation. The Zambia Police Service continues to face a serious challenge with regard to both staff and office accommodation. The institution has 7,891 housing units against 21,944 police officers in the country. This means that there is a deficit of 14,853 housing units to accommodate all police officers. This shortage has caused many officers to seek alternative accommodation outside police camps, a situation that creates a challenge in mobilising officers during emergency operations.

Focus for the 2024 Budget

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service’s proposed budgetary allocation for 2024 is K2,637,623,403, compared with K2,201,519,794 in 2023, representing an increase of 19.8 per cent. The personal emolument budgetary allocation has increased from K1,890,186,107 in 2023 to K2,280,415,256 in 2024, representing an increase of 20 per cent. The increase is as a result of the recruitment of 2,000 police officers and plain cloth allowances for detectives. The operations allocation has increased from K103,034,161 in 2023 to K120,990,304 in 2024. The allocation for utilities has been maintained at K13,947,077 and the food rations allocation has increased from K56,925,973 in 2023 to K131,925,973 in 2024, representing an increase of 131 per cent. The allocation for other programmes has increased from K21,842,502 in 2023 to K30,063,974 in 2024, representing an increase of 37 per cent. The breakdown of the budgetary allocation is as follows:

                 Area                                             Allocation (K)

                 Personal emoluments                    2,280,415,256

                   Operations                                      120,990,304

                   Utilities                                              13,947,077

                   Food rations                                   131,925,973

                   Other programmes                          363,974,000

                   Appropriation in age                            9,530,000

Madam Chairperson, the focus of the Zambia Police Service will be to maintain law and order through strategies such as community policing and hotspot policing. The institution will enhance enforcement of law and order through scaling up of crime prevention programmes, completion of on-going infrastructure projects, dismantling of outstanding arrears, implementation of the approved Zambia Police Service Establishment and implementation of capacity building programmes. The New Dawn Government will endeavour to progressively improve staffing levels of the Zambia Police Service in order to work towards the desired policing ratio.

Madam Chairperson, in summary, the proposed budget for the Zambia Police Service is K2,637,623,403, broken down as indicated earlier.

Madam Chairperson, I seek favourable consideration of the 2024 Estimates for Vote 11, Zambia Police Service, especially given that we have given hon. Members vehicles.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: I have seen that there is a long list of hon. Members who want to debate. Can you, please, economise on the minutes allocated to you so that I can accommodate as many hon. Members as possible. Hon. Members who can debate within four or five minutes can do so to enable me to allow more hon. Members to debate.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Chairperson, our Standing Orders are very clear in providing that when the quorum collapses, this House cannot continue deliberating. The quorum for this Parliament is fifty-six hon. Members, but there are only forty-four. Is the House in order to continue conducting business below the required quorum?

I seek your ruling, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Hon. Chitotela, thank you for that, although this is an administrative matter. Staff from the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Department inform the Presiding Officer or the Chairperson when the quorum collapses. As far as I am concerned, I have not received any indication to that effect. If it the case that the quorum has collapsed, I ask the Whips to do their job.

Please, ring the bells. We are less by two.

Where is the Patriotic Front (PF) Whip?

Mr Mumba rose.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mumba: Madam Chairperson, I think, the number is okay, but I must mention that Hon. Chitotela should stop sending hon. Members out. We are here for serious business.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

We have the quorum. Let us make progress.

Mr Chitotela and Rev. Katuta rose.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Can you resume your seats, hon. Members.

Rev. Katuta remained upstanding.

The Chairperson: I am saying that you should resume your seat because I do not even know why you are upstanding.

Rev. Katuta resumed her seat.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to add –

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

Ms S. Mwamba resumed her seat.

The Chairperson: Hon. Mwamba, you can only resume your seat when you are instructed by the Presiding Officer.

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Chairperson, I am very proud because I have traversed the country, and I have seen for myself what is prevailing on the ground. I appreciate the hon. Minister’s policy statement and all the efforts being made. However, the budgetary allocation for the construction of housing units and the rehabilitation of the water reticulation system is only K34.9 million.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.

Madam Chairperson, I was also on the list, and I do not know how staff from the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Department will help me get back on it.

Madam Chairperson, Standing Order No. 205, if I am not mistaken, is on the language that we use. This point of order is on the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola.

Madam Chairperson, my name is Given Katuta Mwelwa, and that is the one on my National Registration Card (NRC). I represent the good people of Chienge. My name is not Lenshina. During one of her rulings, Madam Speaker spoke about using abusive language on one another. Is the hon. Member for Katombola in order to call me names? If I called him names, I would receive a letter from your office.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: As far as I am concerned, the people of Chienge sent us a representative by the name of Given Katuta, and that is the name that we know in this House. So, the hon. Member who has given you another name, which we and your representatives do not know, is out of order.

We all know that the Member for Chienge Constituency is Hon. Given Katuta.

May the hon. Member for Kasama Central continue.

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Chairperson, according to the target for 2024, only sixty-six housing units and three police posts will be constructed. However, the target for 2023 was not met because the houses are still being constructed, which will be the same for 2024. I feel, it is important that a Supplementary Budget is presented to this House so that more housing units are completed. Currently, there are a number of dilapidated houses, resulting in most police officers looking for accommodation elsewhere. However, it is very important that police officers stay in police camps because otherwise, in case of an emergency, it is not easy for officers to assemble. Further, it is important that police officers have good accommodation for a good night’s sleep to enable them to carry out their work diligently.

Madam Chairperson, there is also a need to rehabilitate all holding cells throughout the country, although only a few have been mentioned. Since the population is growing, more police posts are required. For example, in my constituency, Kasama Central, there is only one police station. So, there is a need to construct more police posts so that police officers can help those at the main station to carry out their duties effectively.

Madam Chairperson, the Victim Support Unit (VSU) has been allocated K117,279. The officers at the unit lack transport and share offices, yet they handle critical matters, and people prefer discussing their issues in confidence. So, how does someone share his/her confidential matters with someone in a shared office?

Madam Chairperson, coming to the issue of transportation, yes, there has been –

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

The voices are becoming louder. Can you, please, lower your voices.

Hon. Member for Kasama Central, you may continue.

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Chairperson, 156 vehicles were purchased for constituencies, but they are still not sufficient, considering the scope of areas that has to be covered. Further, there are several units. So, one vehicle will be heavily drained and will not cater for everything. So, the 156 vehicles are not enough, considering the population and how vast the areas are. So, there should be a Supplementary Budget.

Madam Chairperson, more funds need to be allocated for marine services because the K856,472 that has been allocated is not sufficient. Zambia has many water bodies, and most of them are unmanned. Here and there, you will find equipment that is not used or serviced. So, there is a need to bring the Marine Department to life and to purchase equipment for it.

Madam Chairperson, health care is very important, but it has been allocated K831 million, which is not sufficient. There is a target for 15,000 families, and that includes the officers, their immediate families and the general public. In 2023, 8,589 people accessed the service because the finances were not enough, leading to officers not being efficient in what they were doing.

Madam Chairperson, I am glad to see that K2,716,370 has been allocated to information and communication technology (ICT), which is very important, especially in this day and age. We need to have functional computers and printers, as that will reduce manual entries and the cost of stationery will also go down. We also need a national framework so that all the information from various police stations can be entered into a database because police officers carry out work manually and, in the process, dockets of all sorts of horrendous things get lost.

Madam Chairperson, there is also a deficit of police officers. The crime rate has increased and police officers are not managing. So, a Supplementary Budget is needed so that more police officers can be recruited. Police officers also need to be motivated so that they can carry out their duties diligently.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Luena, to contribute to the debate on Vote 11, Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service plays a very important role in providing security. The people of Luena have a number of submissions to make to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, which they hope will be looked at as the 2024 Budget is being implemented.

Madam Chairperson, one of the issues I would like to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is that many citizens were unfairly dismissed from the Zambia Police Service and that the process of reintegrating some of them has taken a bit of time, and they are waiting to be considered. My appeal is that the ministry takes this matter seriously and gives it the priority it deserves.

Madam Chairperson, some officers improved their professional qualifications and while some have, indeed, been recognised and upgraded in their ranks, others have remained at the same level even after acquiring a couple of extra qualifications that will enable them to serve the nation better.

Madam Chairperson, the people of Luena note that there are a couple of districts that have been prioritised and thought that Luena would be one of those districts. When I saw Mununga, I thought that was Limulunga, but then realised that it is somewhere else. However, in Luena, which is also in Limulunga District, there is only a police station and there are no staff houses for police officers. Consequently, all the police officers live in Mongu, which is 20 km to 25 km away, and that is the situation which –

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Anakoka: Madam Chairperson, let me talk about crime detection and investigation services. Under that programme, a number of key services need to be looked at very closely. K942,879 has been allocated for forensic services. While this is a major improvement from the previous years, I feel that more resources need to be allocated to this department. Further, K380,000 has been allocated for fingerprint services. In fact, that is the same amount that was allocated to the programme in 2023. In terms of fingerprint analysis, our target is pretty low. More importantly, one notes that even our target is a bit problematic because most of the time, the challenge that is there is that of police officers visiting crime scenes. So, before we even talk about how much of the evidence that is collected is analysed, we should deal with how much evidence is collected in the first place. So, out of all the crimes that are reported, how many of them are we able to respond to, and lift fingerprints and other types of evidence that should be picked up?

Madam Chairperson, the allocation for legal and professional standards has been increased from K320,000 to K1.1 million, and one hopes that the Zambia Police Service is seriously going to look at professionalising its operations. Every contact between a police officer and a member of the public should be logged somewhere. Currently, police officers and the public just interact, and this is more so with road traffic services. When there is no logging of interactions, it means that transactions can take place that are not accounted for.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about checkpoints. Indeed, the hon. Minister made the pronouncement that checkpoints should end, especially one-man checkpoints, but the checkpoints have continued. At Manda Hill Traffic Lights, the officers in the Traffic Department let people break the law and deal with them after they have broken it, yet they know that the road markings in that area are not clear. Further, police officers hide near an area where motorists make many mistakes, but we do not want this profession to be dented by such behaviour.

Madam Chairperson, K100,000 has been budgeted for canine services although one is not even sure about the services that will be provided. However, we hope, we can increase the use of canine services, especially when a crime has been committed. Canines should pick up the scent and follow up the suspects, especially when there is a crime of house break-ins. If we invest more in canine services, it will help us attend to such crimes.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, we, the people of Luena, have noted that the way the police is interacting with the public has improved significantly, and I encourage the police officers to continue on this path. Previously, the relationship between the police and the public was antagonistic. I think, the efforts that the New Dawn Government has made to educate citizens on their rights are working. People are being given bonds without undue delay. Police officers acted professionally and protected public property when there was confusion in the other camp when people were holding a convention. Some people wanted to cause ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: ... mayhem, but the police intervened to prevent a bloodbath. That should continue. I know that some people thought that the State was siding with one of the factions when, in fact, it would not watch people hack one another. The police should continue being professional even in 2024.

Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, this is a very important Budget line, though I expected more money to be allocated to it because I am passionate about security.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service is the primary security institution in our nation. The Office of the President, Special Division; the Zambia Airforce (ZAF); and other defence forces cannot be compared to the Zambia Police Service, which takes care of our property and provides security for us, Zambians, as a priority, according to what I know. However, it is worrying that its budgetary allocation is small and, I hope, next year, the ministry will be allocated K1 billion.

Madam Chairperson, in the policy statement, the hon. Minister said that there is a shortfall of police officers. If, today, we had a crisis in our country, the police would not handle it. The hon. Minister mentioned that there are over 21,000 officers, but most of them are in urban areas. Therefore, police officers should be deployed to border areas like Chienge so that they can patrol our waters as well because marine services are not provided on a daily basis. Foreigners go to Chienge because we do not have enough surveillance equipment or boats. So, we should be serious when allocating funds. Before the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning makes allocations, he should consult us so that we agree on what should be allocated to the police. It is saddening to see a police officer walking with a rifle. That is dangerous, and it is not supposed to be so. Our police officers need more vehicles, and fast ones, like those in other African countries, where the police departments are well taken care of.

Madam Chairperson, recruitment in the police service is done at night. I say so because in Chienge, none of the young people who applied have been recruited. We want to see transparency when the Government is recruiting police officers because they are the primary source of our security, and they attend to issues of corruption and all sorts of things. During the recruitment process, we should see the list of people called for medicals in the newspapers. Some of our children were left out, yet we heard that others, who did not even attend medicals, are undergoing training. This is the start of corruption, and it will be easy to corrupt the newly-recruited police officers because they would have been introduced to this. That must not happen again. The police should be respected, and that is the only way they can gain respect from the public. As of now, people do not respect police officers because they think that the officers are their traditional cousins, and they say ‘baisa aba, bapeniko fye kalya balaya.’ That is because police officers have been introduced to bad habits. So, we want to see transparency when the Government is recruiting police officers.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about the police officers’ uniforms and their work environment. I say that the Zambia Police Service should have been allocated more than K1 billion or even K2 billion. I was detained at Emmasdale Police Station, and one would feel pity on seeing where the police officers there sit. The work environment is not conducive for them. The ablution block at Chilanga Police Post is not in a good condition, and one would feel pity for the police officers who work there who come from decent homes. That is why I said that next time, we should agree to give the Zambia Police Service a better allocation. Look at the houses in Sikanze Police Camp. One wonders why human beings should still live in such houses fifty-nine years after Independence. So, we should be serious when making allocations.

Madam Chairperson, technocrats should not just write points. They should ask us who interact with police officers what those offices need. There are no cells for females or juveniles at the police station in Chienge, and that is why a female was raped. These are things that we talk about. So, we can allocate a better amount to the police and decide what to do for them.

Madam Chairperson, in winding up my debate, I wish to say that it is not right to say that short people should not be recruited. We from Chienge, …

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Rev. Katuta: … in particular, and Luapula, in general, are short like the hon. Member for Mwinilunga.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Normally, when it comes to recruitment, we are left out. So, that specification should be removed because many people are passionate about serving this nation.

Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I want to see transparency when it comes to the recruitment of police officers.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya.

Madam Chairperson, this is a very important Vote, and I want to place it on record that the Zambia Police Service deserves the support of this House. When the Committee I am on went around the country, it looked at the welfare of police officers, and we have not given our men and women in uniform, who are charged with the responsibility of maintaining law and order in this country, the attention they deserve.

Madam Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, I want to place it on record that, sometimes, the Zambia Police Service is labelled the most corrupt institution in this country. I think, society has been unfair to this institution in that one cannot compare the gravity of what is called corruption in the Zambia Police Service with corruption that is allegedly committed under procurement. Some police officers collect K100s and K200s, and we say that there is corruption in the Zambia Police Service, yet we know where the real corruption happens. So, I think, to an extent, society has been harsh, and we have the responsibility to exonerate the police.

Madam Chairperson, in supporting the allocation to the Zambia Police Service, the need to construct more police stations is greater. We understand the burden on the hon. Minister’s shoulders of ensuring that there is police presence everywhere. I wish to buttress the point raised by the hon. Member for Kasama Central that those of us from Kanchibiya Constituency would support a Supplementary Budget because we know that security matters are important in ensuring that Zambia attains sustainable development.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about the supplies provided for the police. In terms of fuel and lubricants procured, I think, the target is 2.6 million litres. With the procurement of 156 police vehicles, there is an increase of about 600,000 litres. We are aware that, sometimes, police officers run out of fuel when carrying out operations. If it were possible, we would have called for an increased allocation for lubricants and fuel so that the police can deliver its services as the case should be.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to buttress the need for electronic-Government (e-Government) services for things such as police reports. It would be important to migrate from hand-written police reports to ones that can be accessed by all police stations electronically.

Madam Chairperson, some of us come from constituencies where there are vast water bodies, such as Lake Chaya and Chambeshi River. Imagine what would happen if a suspect who is a good swimmer escaped. We do not want to see our hardworking officers drown when chasing suspects who escape. So, there has to be increased allocation to marine services in that regard.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to call for increased presence of the police. In the teaching sector, for example, teachers go to certain areas and work under harsh conditions, and health personnel also do that. Therefore, police officers should go to places where there is no decent accommodation as we utilise the resources at our disposal to construct low-cost houses. We understand that there is a huge housing deficit, which will not be responded to in a year or two. So, we ask that the police go to newly-created districts, such as those in our constituencies.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Chairperson, on behalf of the people of Magoye Constituency, I just want to raise a few issues that, I feel, are very important to enhanced security in the country.

Madam Chairperson, the issue of transport has ably been dealt with. The 156 vehicles are not enough because, I feel, there was a very huge void. As you are aware, Magoye Constituency has a radius of 72 km, and when we asked for help from police officers in Mazabuka, they took a little longer to come and help us. Now, this problem will lessen because police officers have been given vehicles.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I want to talk about is that of salaries for police officers. Salaries are very important, as they enhance self-esteem and motivate our officers. Due to a lack of motivation, some officers engage in corruption. So, if we increased the salaries of police officers, that would really help us.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about inadequate police stations. The police post in Chivuna is at 80 per cent, and we allocated money for the construction of, I think, two police posts. However, the police posts are not sufficient to police a huge population like that which is in Magoye. So, I ask the ministry to come in because, it seems, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is highly suffocated, as it has to cater for services that are required in the community.

Madam Chairperson, we visited a good number of police stations in the country and, as my colleagues indicated, there are very few computers in those police stations. Police officers still write reports instead of using computers like it is done in many Government institutions.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I want to talk about is accommodation. If there is any institution that has not been helped in any way in terms of accommodation, it is the Zambia Police Service. In the southern region, where I live, no houses for police officers were constructed in the past ten years. There is no area that I can indicate where that was done. So, it is important that police officers are accommodated so that they are motivated.

Madam Chairperson, I appreciate the Government for increasing the budgetary allocation for the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. In 2023, the budget for the ministry was increased by 35 per cent. Again, in 2024, it has been increased. This shows how committed the New Dawn Government is to responding to the inadequacies in the ministry.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I want to talk about is the recruitment of officers. The ministry has recruited a huge number of people to beef-up the number of police officers. Since the population has grown, we also need to increase the number of police officers.

Madam Chairperson, we have seen an increment of K2.6 billion in the budget for the ministry in the 2024 Budget. This is really helpful because this will go to the areas of need to motivate our officers.

Madam Chairperson, lastly, roadblocks are mushrooming, to some extent, causing a rise in corruption cases and congestion on our roads. I do not know how the Government can eliminate those roadblocks. Much as I know that we have to enhance security in some areas, sometimes, roadblocks inconvenience motorists. As I support this Vote, I really appreciate the increment in the budget on behalf of the people of Magoye.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr E. Daka: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is on the previous speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member who is just from debating said that he has not seen any house for police officers constructed in the last ten years in the Southern Province, in particular, in Mazabuka. I just want to remind him that there are houses for police officers in Mazabuka, Monze and Choma. Is he in order to mislead himself and the nation?

I seek your ruling, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: I thought that Hon. Malambo mentioned that in Magoye, no police post was built. Had he referred to the whole of the Southern Province, then, you would have been right. So, Hon. Malambo was not out of order because he was talking about what is happening in his constituency.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, before the hon. Minister for Southern Province debates, and the hon. Minister for Home Affairs and Internal Security winds up debate, I will allow one hon. Member who was among the hon. Members who scrutinised the budget for national security and foreign affairs to debate, as has been agreed.

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add a word to the debate on this Vote. Indeed, I was among the Committee members who sat to scrutinise this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, the budgetary allocation for this Vote for 2024 has been increased by 22.9 per cent, compared with that for 2023. Although it has been increased, it is still inadequate in the sense that most of it is for personal emoluments, and what that entails is that other services are not provided for. Previously, the allocation for food rations was very bad but, this time around, it has been increased to K131 million, which is still not enough to cater for the food rations given to police officers. Therefore, over K300 million should have been allocated towards food rations and, according to the report of the previous Quartermaster, that would have been adequate. If there is any Vote where we can get money from and add to the allocation for food rations, I think, that would be an ideal thing to do because in the same allocation, uniforms and other things have been catered for.

Madam Chairperson, the allocation for infrastructure development has been reduced to K34 million compared with the previous Budget line, and it is way too low in view of what our police officers go through. Therefore, there will be no chance of constructing housing units and police stations. We appreciate the fact that we are using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for construction projects, but that is not enough. If the budget for the Zambia Police Service were to be increased, our police officers would operate diligently.

Madam Chairperson, we also looked at the provision for goods and services, which has been increased in 2024 to K322 million, compared with the previous Budget line of K202 million. However, the allocation is still not sufficient, and there is a need to increase it so that our men and women in uniform can give us the best performance, so to speak. If the budgetary allocation for goods and services is increased, definitely, our officers will operate better. Some officers resort to initiatives that eventually result in corrupt practices, which would not be the case if the provision for goods and services was adequate.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about the way our police officers have been operating. Police officers are not given equipment, such as tasers and streamers, because the allocation for equipment is inadequate. So, we need to ensure that our men and women in uniform have equipment other than firearms because they need to protect our people. We also need to ensure that the public appreciates the services that the officers provide.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should, next time, allocate enough resources to the police. Much as we are using the CDF for projects, that is not enough. There is a need to have many vehicles at big police stations because of the units that are there. So, next year, the allocation for police officers should be more. Let us support our men and women in uniform by providing the much-needed requisites that they deserve.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: My apologies to the hon. Minister of Information and Media. I addressed him as the hon. Minister for Southern Province.

The Minister of Information and Media (Mr Mweetwa): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Motion under discussion on the Floor of this House.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to thank the Zambia Police Service for training persons like me, Hon. Andeleki, Hon. Sing’ombe, Hon. Chitotela and others in this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: This House should be disciplined because police officers are disciplined.

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: There is a lot of discipline on the right because some hon. Members were police officers.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Chairperson, let me quickly indicate that I will be ventilating this Motion under the theme “Policing a Widening Democratic Space: the Challenge of Newly Found Freedoms under the New Dawn Administration”.

Madam Chairperson, let me, in earnest, thank the Zambia Police Service and all the security agencies for maintaining law and order in this country, thereby, guaranteeing the peace of this country, a prerequisite for business and economic activities to take place in this country. Peace is so important that many people out there live for it and, if necessary, die for it. It is the most prized national asset. Therefore, I thank the Zambia Police Service and other security agencies for maintaining peace and not pandering to the whims of those who want to bring political issues to be commingled with security. They should carry on, and the Government notices their efforts.

Madam Chairperson, I note that the budget has increased from K2,146,465,832 to K2,637,623,403, and a quick perusal will inform us that most of the funds will go towards important areas of need, such as an increased allocation to personal emoluments in view of the newly-recruited officers in the Zambia Police Service. This is the way it should be, and a little more is to be done under the New Dawn Administration.

Madam Chairperson, the allocation for food rations has also been increased from K60 million to K121 million. This is critical. In the past, we stood on the Floor of this House to indicate that there was no requirement to flaunt funding in terms of purchase of armoured cars and teargas in a population that is overly peaceful. The New Dawn Administration has responded to the call of the people that public funds must be utilised prudently.

Madam Chairperson, let me quickly talk about the work environment within which the police, today, find themselves under the New Dawn Administration. His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, insists that Government institutions must operate autonomously within the precincts of the mandate that they are clothed with by law. They should operate by law, not by the wishes of men. That is what we see the police doing today.

Madam Chairperson, today, in Zambia, the issue of political interference in the way the police discharge their mandate is a thing of the past and it has been consigned to …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: … to the dust bins of history. That is the way it should be. As a policeman, who is also privileged to be a Member of Parliament, this is the police I want to see.

Madam Chairperson, the President has guided on how police officers should carry themselves, that before they arrest anybody, they must investigate and that when they make up their mind to arrest somebody, they should give that person a police bond or, if the matter escalates to court, police bail in accordance with Section 123 of the Criminal Procedure Code Act, Cap. 88 of the Laws of Zambia. That is what we are seeing happening. Today, even if you are politically aligned, when you get arrested, no police officer will be afraid to give you police bond and no court officers will be afraid to give you bail in fear of getting retired in the national interest. All that is history. This is the country that the people of Zambia voted for in 2021.

Madam Chairperson, as a result of the good guidance of the President, the Commander-in-Chief, we have seen that there is no political violence in this country because the police are operating in accordance with the law and are not tolerating anybody regardless of political affiliation not even those who are in the Ruling Party. Political violence has been done away with.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to provide checks and balances. This is how it should be. I stand on Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Chairperson, the information that the very able hon. Minister of Information and Media provides to the masses and this House should not only be factual, but also verifiable. Is he in order to mislead the nation by saying that, now, when people are arrested, police officers do not fear to give them police bonds within twenty-four hours when some people apply for the writ of habeas corpus to force the police to release suspects charged with bailable offences? Many people are detained for more than twenty-four hours while others are detained for three, four or five days. The hon. Minister is comfortably drinking water and telling us that, now, the police release people within forty-eight hours. Is he in order to mislead the people? He should give us hope that next year, the police will be releasing people within forty-eight hours.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: I think, since the person who is debating is the hon. Minister who represents –

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Can you, please, listen to the ruling.

The Presiding Officer does not know what happens in the ministries. She is simply chairing. So, we will take whatever the hon. Minister is saying as the gospel truth …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: … unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Hon. Mung’andu, do you have evidence for you to say that you are not in support of what the hon. Minister is saying?

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, clearly, he is not debating as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. We have a very capable hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Should you request for evidence, I can come and lay it on the Table of the House. Yes, I do have that evidence.

The Chairperson: You do not have the evidence now and we cannot wait for you to bring it because we do not know whether you will bring it tomorrow or the other day.

Let us make progress. We are actually behind time.

The hon. Minister of Information and Media, you were winding up your debate.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Chairperson, I was just winding up by indicating that as a result of the good leadership of President Hakainde Hichilema, in this country today, there is no political violence, cadreism, police brutality, extra-judicial killings and extra-judicial detentions. However, the law provides that habitual and perpetual offenders cannot be given bond or bail. It is a legal matter; it is not wished. In this country, corruption has reduced because people no longer negotiate for their freedom; it is given.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I urge suspects to co-operate with the police and not position themselves as victims for political reasons.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I am highly elated by the debates of my colleagues who in most instances, were in support of the budget. The hon. Members who debated on the Floor of this House supported the operations of the Zambia Police Service, and I would like to thank all of them.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to respond to the issue of housing and police stations. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and I are discussing the commencement of Phase II of the construction of houses for the police and other security wings in the country. When we conclude that discussion, we will construct houses in a number of police stations in the country. I also appreciate most of the issues raised by my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central, which we have taken note of.

Madam Chairperson, it is true that most infrastructure for the Zambia Police Service throughout the country is dilapidated. As a nation and a people, we have to find ways and means of modernising the infrastructure. Policing is being done in the interest of all of us, and we must take interest in this matter. So, I appreciate my colleagues who raised it.

Madam Chairperson, I am proud to state that the recruitment of police officers in this country, during my reign as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, has been very transparent. Hon. Members will note that after the vigorous recruitment, we published the names of all those who were recruited, and they reflect the face of Zambia. I can state without any fear of contradiction that the recruitment process is not discriminatory and that the recruits are from the different parts of Zambia as it should be. Hon. Members are aware that the Zambia Police Act provides that whenever the Government is recruiting, it should ensure that the face of Zambia is reflected, and that is exactly what we have done.

Madam Chairperson, it is true that police vehicles currently in use are very inadequate, and I indicated that there is a serious shortfall, which needs to be addressed by this House. This House approves the Budget for the country and hon. Members who think that there is any provision that is not adequate have the right to make a virement because they are the ones who make the Budget. So, I accept the views that have been expressed, and we will take note of them. There has not been any controversial debate pertaining to this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank most sincerely all my colleagues who debated and those who have silently supported the Vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police Service – K2,637,623,403).

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4155, Activity 001 – VIP and Diplomatic Security Provision – K144,296,021. We have seen an increase from K123,923,196 to K144,296,021 in the allocation. Why has this allocation been increased?

Madam Chairperson, I also seek clarification on Programme 4155, Activity 004 – Infrastructure Development – K34,946,320. Why has there been a reduction from K53,946,320 to K34,946,320?

Madam Chairperson, further, I seek clarification on Programme 4156, Activity 002 – Forensic Services – K942,879; Activity 003 – Fingerprints Services – K380,000; and Activity 005 – Criminal Record Clearance Services – K270,236. Does the hon. Minister intend to also take care of our security concerns, we in the Opposition, or is it just the very important persons (VIP)? Further, why have the allocations to these Activities been maintained when we are going biometric, and we may need more forensic services?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I will start with Activity 004 – Infrastructure Development – K34,946,320. As rightly indicated, the figure has reduced. In the 2023 Budget, it was K53,946,320 but, this year, it is K34,946,320. We are rationalising the operations under this Activity. Hon. Members may have noticed that most infrastructure development programmes have been moved from the line ministries, and are being provided for under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, hence the reduction. This Activity is meant to complete certain projects that the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security started.

Madam Chairperson, on fingerprints services, this is a necessary evil. We cannot abandon this programme because we are going biometric. We will still take fingerprints for habitual criminals and those who commit crime. We have a database of people who are in the habit of committing crimes, and taking fingerprints assists us in identifying such people. We are merely in the process of going digital. So, we cannot abandon this programme.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

VOTE 11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 30 – (Zambia Correctional Service – K1,183,338,920).

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, let me thank you for according me the opportunity to present before this august House a policy statement on the 2024 Budget Estimates for Vote 30 – Zambia Correctional Service.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Correctional Service is established under Article 193 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 and is mandated to manage, regulate and ensure the security of all prisons and correctional centres across the country. The service is governed by the Correctional Service Act No. 37 of 2021. In addition, the service offers correctional and rehabilitation programmes to inmates. Its mission statement is “To provide humane and correctional services for maintaining community safety and reformation of inmates.”

Madam Chairperson, the performance of the Zambia Correctional Service in the first half for 2023 was satisfactory. During the period, the average inmate population in the country was 25,300, against a holding capacity of 10,686, translating into an overpopulation of 137 per cent. This situation has exerted pressure on correctional facilities and, to address this challenge, the service has expedited the construction of a correctional facility at Nansanga Correctional Farm with a holding capacity of 1,600, which is at 90 per cent. The service also managed to provide inmates with three meals per day and ensured timely treatment of inmates’ ailments to improve their health, and reduce morbidity in correctional centres.

Madam Chairperson, under rehabilitation services, the service continued facilitating the enrolment of inmates in adult education and vocational skills programmes. So far, 5,669 inmates have been tested in various trade skills and received the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) certification. The service also recapitalised four industrial workshops to enhance production and facilitated the effective reintegration of discharged inmates into communities. To this effect, 53.8 per cent of discharged inmates were offered post-discharge services.

Challenges Faced

Madam Chairperson, during the implementation of the 2023 Budget, the service experienced several challenges that included the following:

1. congestion in correctional facilities due to the ever-increasing inmate population;

1. low staffing levels, thus compromising security in correctional facilities;

1. inadequate provision of start-up packs for skilled discharged inmates;

1. inadequate office equipment and furniture;

1. accumulation of arrears for other personnel emoluments; and

1. inadequate modern industrial equipment for workshops and farms.

2024 Budget Highlights

Madam Chairperson, the proposed 2024 Budget is K1,183,338,920, compared with K899,016,340 in 2023, representing a 31.6 per cent increase. This is a clear demonstration of the Government’s desire to ensure that inmates are held in humane custody. The summary of the proposed allocation for 2024 as follows:

Area                                       Amount Allocated (K)

 

custodial services                          593,762,396

rehabilitation services                    304,175,024

social reintegration                          29,288,914

correctional service training             63,306,089

management and support              192,806,497

services

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, the Zambia Correctional Service will execute its mandate and contribute to internal security through the provision of correctional services. The service will channel resources towards inmates’ adult literacy and vocational training, which encompasses literacy, formal education and vocational skills training, thereby contributing to inmates’ rehabilitation, and the provision of after-care and extension services to facilitate community re-entry and reintegration and of former inmates. Further, the service will enhance accountability and prudent utilisation of resources, improve human resource development and management, as well as strengthen the planning, budgeting and financial management systems.

Madam Chairperson, I request the hon. Members of this august House to favourably consider the proposed allocation for the Zambia Correctional Service.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Chairperson, I support the budget in the sense that it speaks to the few things that the correctional service should be doing.

Madam Chairperson, the K1.183 billion that has been allocated to the Zambia Correctional Service is not enough. The correctional service should not be a burden to our country. Instead, it should contribute to the gross domestic product (GDP) of this country. I am happy to note that the people who go to correctional facilities write trade tests making, their lives easy when they re-enter their respective communities. That is how it should be. You will agree with me that some of the inmates are innocent and that they find themselves in those facilities because of the law. So, correctional facilities should do more, than just train them.

Madam Chairperson, since the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been enhanced, why can we not let the people in correctional facilities make desks? Why can we not give them such jobs? They are trained and they write trade tests. So, they can be kept busy. The hon. Minister should make a difference, and it is important that we start doing that. In addition, the people in correctional facilities should engage in full-scale commercial farming and should not just grow cabbage, rape or tomatoes. That is the mistake we make. For God’s sake, all of us here are potential prisoners, and we have different skills. So, we need to ensure that the people who are farmers, doctors and engineers in those facilities work instead of just sitting idly. We think that when someone is jailed, then, he/she is irrelevant or unproductive to the nation. That should not be the case.

Madam Chairperson, the correctional facility in my district is pathetic, and we had to construct a toilet there. The people of Nyimba do not want the facility to be the way it is. They feel that the ministry can do better, and they provided land for the facility. The hon. Minister has kept us, the people of Nyimba, at ransom. We need to start moving. We need a better facility in the district, and the hon. Minister needs to show leadership.

Madam Chairperson, community re-entry is very important, and the people in correctional facilities should not only be trained in plumbing and bricklaying, but also in agriculture through the National Resources Development College (NRDC) because the farming business requires very minimal capital. There is no way we can fail to construct centre pivots at open prisons. Chief Luembe gave the ministry good land, but the ministry is not utilising the land to the fullest. The Chief produces ten times more than the correctional facilities. So, I ask the hon. Minister to fund the correctional facilities across this country so that we can start producing corn, wheat and soya beans, and farming throughout the year using them. I do not think that is too much to ask for. All I am asking is that the people in prisons be productive so that they avoid committing other offences when they are out of prison.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, the ministry should consider expanding the holding capacity for inmates in correctional facilities in the country. In the last fifty-seven years, there has not been a correctional facility in Chililabombwe. However, the New Dawn Administration is working on the road to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) and, because of that, Kasumbalesa is becoming a town.

Madam Chairperson, we see the police take remandees from Chingola to Chililabombwe on a daily basis, which is a cost to the Government. If there was a correctional facility in Chililabombwe, those people would attend their court cases within a short distance. So, the people of Chililabombwe and other districts where there are no correctional facilities should be considered.

Madam Chairperson, the Government has continued allocating a lot of money to this Vote as a result of the increased number of inmates in correctional facilities. My humble appeal is that the rehabilitation process for inmates be enhanced through training so the inmates can reform. We should not relent on reforming the people sent to prison because when they are reformed, they may be released on Presidential pardon. My humble appeal is that the people who select inmates who qualify for Presidential pardon consider women as well as those above sixty or seventy years. It is unfair for a person aged seventy or eighty-five to be in prison while people aged twenty-five or thirty are released. Further, enhancing rehabilitation programmes will decongest prisons, and that will save our national coffers.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about the issue of transport. There are many challenges in some districts. For example, there is no transport at some correctional facilities to ferry remandees to the courts of law, thereby delaying justice. Therefore, transport should be provided at correctional facilities to expedite the process of remandees appearing in court.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about housing. The ministry should consider providing decent accommodation for officers in the Zambia Correctional Service. A number of houses were built for the police in Ndola District, particularly in Chifubu, Kansenshi and Peter Singongo police camps, but not for officers in the Zambia Correctional Service. So, the ministry should consider building houses for them, too.

Madam Chairperson, we see people taking food to their relatives in prisons as if it were in hospitals. So, there is a need to budget for food for prisoners. If there was sufficient food in prisons, few people would be taking food to the people in prisons. So, the ministry should consider providing food for prisoners.

Madam Chairperson, 75 per cent of the inmates are youths who would have been in school or college. So, my humble appeal is that the hon. Minister addresses the issue of educational services. The last time I visited Kamfinsa, I think, four or five years ago, I bemoaned the classrooms there. So, classrooms and health facilities in correctional facilities should be improved, and that should be done through this budget.

Madam Chairperson, we know that the New Dawn Administration has made positive strides in ensuring that the lives of inmates are improved. Even though it has a constrained financial space, it is doing its best to improve the services for the people in prisons.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about the remuneration of the officers. The officers are very dedicated to their work. So, the ministry should consider improving their conditions of service and promoting them. Some officers have not been promoted even after serving for ten, fifteen or twenty years. So, promoting them would be one way of motivating them.

With those few remarks, Madam Chairperson, I rest my case.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Chairperson, from the outset, let me declare that the hon. Minister who presented the policy statement for this Vote is a leader in the Church. I support the budget, but I will raise issues that concern the people of Zambia.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Correctional Service must be supported as it embarks on the farming programme and –

The Chairperson: Order, Hon. Chitotela!

You are debating as the hon. Member for Pambashe. Do not refer to the hon. Minister as your churchmate. He is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

You may continue.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Chairperson, he is Catholic. He cannot be an Adventist (laughs).

Madam Chairperson, I am debating as a Member of Parliament, and I want to encourage the Commissioner and the team to embark on an agricultural project so that they can contribute to sustaining our food basket in Zambia. We, in Kawambwa, have given a huge chunk of land under Luena Farming Block to the Zambia Correctional Service, and we hope that it will take advantage of that and participate in the livestock sub-sector and crop production.

Madam Chairperson, as hon. Members may be aware, Kawambwa is one of the districts favoured with a good rainfall pattern. Every year, there is 1,300 mm of rainfall in Mbala and Kawambwa. So, I want to encourage the Zambia Correctional Service to start contributing to the food basket. That way, the money that goes to food supplies will go to operations and maintenance of the service, which is no longer a prison service, but a correctional service.

Madam Chairperson, the people in correctional facilities are detainees, not condemned prisoners. By law, detainees and condemned prisoners must be allowed to see their family members at specified times and have access to their counsels. The hon. Minister and the Commissioner-General may not be aware that some officers do not allow people to visit the people in correctional facilities, who came into conflict with the law. However, we should continue promoting and protecting human rights. The hon. Minister in charge of internal security and home affairs is a lawyer, and lawyers defend human rights no matter the circumstances. So, the people in correctional facilities should be allowed to have legal representation and to be visited by their family members at prescribed times. However, a certain Permanent Secretary (PS) assumed the role of Commissioner-General. That must not happen in our Republic. We need to respect individual rights, as things tend to happen. I do not want to be personal and discuss individuals. Let me concentrate on discussing the budget.

Madam Chairperson, as the people in correctional facilities reform, we must not forget to train and retrain staff at the correctional service and equip them with modern technology. As the officers superintend and manage correctional facilities, they must understand that they are citizens. I know that some officers of the State are, sometimes, misunderstood and mistreated. However, in the discharge of duties, there is a need to follow lawful instructions, which may result in an officer being held responsible under a charge called misfeasance. If you perform your functions outside of what is prescribed in the law, you break the law and commit an offence because every institution that is established was given a mandate and must operate within the law. So, we support this budget.

Madam Chairperson, we know that the Zambia Correctional Service is under capable hands. Reforms require a mindset change, not legal interventions. That is an administrative issue, and we need to sharpen personal behaviour and character. We also need to understand the current trends as we deal with the situation, and that must be supported by this august House, but it can only be done if this Parliament gives the service enough money so that the programmes it runs are successfully implemented with fewer difficulties.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Correctional Service can sustain its operations once it embarks on economic activities, and it will be easy for it to run the facilities throughout the country. I know, the hon. Minister’s team and the Commissioner are running some farms in Central Province, and we want them to do the same in the northern region. As I stated, Luapula Province is a disease-free zone. So, they can engage in crop production and rear animals. When the people in our region see cattle, they will say umunani, but they should understand that it is of economic benefit to the nation.

Madam Chairperson, with those words, I support the Budget line.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Chairperson, first of all, I support the budget.

Madam Chairperson, correctional facilities in Zambia are not widely spread. For example, there are no correctional facilities in Mpongwe, Lufwanyama and Masaiti districts, making it difficult to deliver justice. Mpongwe is 65 km from Luanshya, where there is a correctional facility, making it difficult to transport remandees from Mpongwe to Luanshya, and for justice to be delivered on time. When prisoners are sentenced, they are taken to Luanshya, and some of them work in the farms in Mpongwe because there are many farms there. However, last year, some prisoners were involved in an accident.

Madam Chairperson, I want to talk about the issue of accommodation. There is no accommodation at most correctional facilities. For example, in Luanshya, the officers at the correctional service live at an old prison, which is not habitable for human beings.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about the issue of transport. Correctional facilities do not have enough utility vehicles and light trucks for transporting prisoners. So, I want the hon. Minister to address the issue of transport for correctional facilities.

Madam Chairperson, let me also talk about rehabilitation services. The Zambia Prisons Service was changed to the Zambia Correctional Service so that the people in correctional facilities reform when they are released, and go back into their communities. So, this budget should provide for rehabilitation services so that by the time prisoners complete their sentences, they are reformed.

Madam Chairperson, I commend the New Dawn Government on the welfare of inmates. There is now an improvement, unlike in the past. There are now bunk beds, mattresses and blankets in correctional facilities. This is commendable, and the Government should continue addressing the challenges faced by inmates.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about correctional farms management. I have seen that there is a reduction in the budgetary allocation for correctional farms management, but since there is a shortage of maize, the allocation should have improved so that we cushion the shortage of maize in our country. Therefore, the Government should increase the number of milling plants so that it can cushion the price of mealie meal in the country, like what the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is doing.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support this budget.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank my colleagues who have contributed to the debate on Vote 30, Zambia Correctional Service. Most of the issues that have been raised by my colleagues are very constructive, and we have taken note of them. However, I want to respond to one or two issues.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba talked about the need to empower the Zambia Correctional Service so that it can enhance its farming activities. I would like to confirm that this Government has empowered the service pertaining to commercial farming. Currently, a number of commercial farms are running efficiently in the northern region, in Kawambwa in the Northern Province, and Nansanga, in Central Province. We restocked the farm in Kawambwa, which was dormant, with 1,000 herds of cattle to ensure that the area remains productive. We also installed centre pivots in Nansanga to respond to the directive by the Head of State that we be self-sufficient, provide food for the inmates and engage in commercial farming to supplement farmers’ efforts towards feeding the nation. That advice is acceptable, and that is the way we will go.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to respond to the issue of the prison in Nyimba. That matter is under consideration, and we had a meeting with the officials two days ago. We hope to resolve the matter in the interest of both parties.

Madam Chairperson, the officers in the Zambia Correctional Service are very professional. They are not inclined to violate the rights of inmates. Every inmate who is incarcerated under our institutions has the right to visitation according to the laws that are established. We will not allow anyone’s rights to be violated, and the officers have received instructions to that effect.

Madam Chairperson, I admit, as I indicated earlier, that most of the infrastructure is dilapidated. In most instances, it is not even fit for holding inmates. Using limited resources we have, we will rehabilitate the infrastructure, such as Mbala Correctional Facility and correctional facilities in Kabompo and Kalomo. Next year, we will rehabilitate three, and we will look for resources to complete them. I also want to confirm that the Mwembezhi Correctional Facility, which is being rehabilitated through the Mukuyu Venture Public-Private Partnership (PPP), will be completed in the next six months. That will help to decongest our facilities. However, we hope, in future, to find funding to build modern infrastructure that will provide humane conditions for our inmates.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I would like to thank my colleagues for the support rendered.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 30 – (Zambia Correctional Services – K1,183,338,920).

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4135, Sub-programme 5007 – Infrastructure Development – K86,112,085. In 2023, K78,503,834 was allocated to this sub-programme and, in 2024, K86,112,085 was allocated, an increment of about K8 million, yet many rehabilitation works need to be undertaken.

Madam Chairperson, I further seek clarification on Programme 4136, Sub-programme 6003 –Correctional Industries Services – K181,923,431. This allocation will facilitate the construction of Petauke Milling Plant and recapitalisation of industrial workshops. Will it be adequate to construct the milling plant as well as recapitalise industrial workshops?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I have taken note of the issues that have been raised by my colleague, but he has to note that the resource envelope is limited. With regard to Petauke Milling Plant, we have been assured that money will be made available to complete it.

Madam Chairperson, hon. Members are aware that the Zambia Correctional Service and the Zambia National Service (ZNS) are the only institutions selling cheap mealie meal. So, we hope, the milling plant will be ready soon. The Zambia Correctional Service is very pleased to note that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has been increasing its funding, unlike in the past when it was like a Cinderella institution. For the time being, it is being funded adequately.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1844 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 10^th November, 2023.

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