DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 7th March, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______________

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER 

A POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MS M. LUBEZHI, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NAMWALA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY ON THE RESPONSE MADE BY THE HON. MINISTER FOR CHIEFS AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS, MRS I. WINA, ON A STATEMENT ALLEGEDLY MADE BY GOVERNMENT, THAT GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WOULD NOT BE GRACING TRADITIONAL CEREMONIES

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that yesterday, on Tuesday, 6th March, 2012, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 167 on the Order Paper, Mr B. Hamusonde, Member of Parliament for Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency was asking a supplementary question when Ms M. Lubezhi, Member of Parliament for Namwala raised the following point of order:

“Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs in order to mislead this House by denying the fact that the Government actually issued instructions to stop Government officials to grace traditional ceremonies?

“Sir, I have with me here, which I will lay on the Table, the communiqué which was from the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs; an abstract from the Daily Mail, which reads and I quote: ‘Scott’s Sata’s Envoy to Nc’wala’ and also the verbatim report for 28th February, 2012, where I asked a question and she denied the facts.”

Hon. Members, in my immediate response, I indicated that I would reserve the ruling. Hon. Members will further recall that the question asked by the hon. Member on Friday, 2nd March, 2012 was as follows:

“Mr Speaker, will the Hon. Minister deny the fact that actually this Government entices chiefs to get involved in politics going by the recent incident whereby the entire Vice-President with a huge delegation went to the Nc’wala Traditional Ceremony when the Government made a statement in December, 2011, that Government officials would not be gracing traditional ceremonies and yet we saw a Government delegation going to the aforementioned traditional ceremony? If they cannot adhere to their own directives, who will? Will that fact be denied?”

In her response, the hon. Minister for Chiefs and Traditional Affairs replied as follows:

“Mr Speaker, this Government respects chiefs and will grace all the traditional ceremonies in the country. What we are suggesting to the chiefs is that, if possible, they should invite each other to be guests of honour at these ceremonies. This will help cement the relationship amongst chiefs. However, this does not necessarily mean that Government officials cannot attend the traditional ceremonies.”

Hon. Members, the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala in raising her point of order, one of the documents she laid on the Table is a letter from the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs addressed to all Provincial Permanent Secretaries, which reads as follows:

“RE:    PROVISION OF GUESTS OF HONOUR AT TRADITIONAL CEREMONIES

As you are aware, the PF Government places great importance to the promotion of arts and culture for national development. It is PF Government’s view that in order to depoliticise traditional ceremonies and promote unity, guests of honour at such ceremonies shall be traditional rulers from other chiefdoms instead of Government functionaries.

The purpose of my writing to you, therefore, is to request your office to bring this development to the attention of cultural associations that organise respective traditional ceremonies in your province.”

Hon. Members, I have since studied the point of order, as well as the record of proceedings relating to the issue at hand and also the documents laid before the House. 

Hon. Members, the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Namwala highlights the need for hon. Members of Parliament to pay careful attention when hon. Ministers are answering questions and presenting information to the House.

Hon. Members, I note that the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs in responding to the point of order was, in fact, consistent with the communiqué by the Government. In the communiqué referred to above, the Government was urging Government officials to ensure that traditional ceremonies were depoliticised by ensuring that traditional rulers are invited as guests of honour at traditional ceremonies. These sentiments in fact were echoed by the hon. Minister in her response to the question asked by the hon. Member for Namwala.

Hon. Members, I wish to seize this opportunity to, once again, guide the House on the subjects for points of order. Points of order ought to primarily relate to the interpretation, or enforcement of the rules of procedure and the conduct of business in the House. In this respect, hon. Members can and should invite my attention to any instance when a breach of order or transgression of any law of the House has been committed. However, in very exceptional circumstances, if a matter is grave, urgent, and of utmost national importance, I may allow a point of order to be raised regarding it. In so doing, I may make a ruling immediately or reserve a ruling to a later date or refer the matter or question to the Leader of Government Business in the House to reply immediately or later through a ministerial statement. In addition, before any point of order is raised, hon. Members should ensure that the facts relating to the point of order are very accurate.

Hon. Members should, in particular, note the following matters in relation to points of order. Points of order should not be raised in the following circumstances:

(a)    to ask for information, or to explain an hon. Member’s position on a matter;

(b)    in relation to contradictory statements alleged to have been made by hon. Members who are not members of the Executive;

(c)    to debate a substantive argument on a Motion, resolution or question;

(d)    while a division is being taken in the House;

(e)    to reopen a point of order already decided on;

(f)    to debate a point of order; that is to say, a point of order on a point of order; and

(g)    while the Speaker, is putting a question before the House or delivering his ruling or making observations or otherwise speaking.

Let me also repeat that the other information on points of order is already contained in circulars to hon. Members and also the hon. Members’ handbook.

However, I note with regret that in most cases points of order have been frequently misused and abused. Unnecessary points of orders have the unfortunate effect of suspending and detracting the House from considering the business before the House. 

I earnestly trust that my counsel and guidance on this subject will be heeded so that the House should at all times devote its energy and time debating and considering serious national business without unnecessarily having to be detracted by unmerited points of order.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

______________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN SOLWEZI

173. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training whether the Government had any plans to construct new secondary schools in the following areas in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency to cater for the increased population as a result of mining activities:

(a)    Manyama;

(b)    Shilenda;

(c)    Senior Chief Mukumbi’s Chiefdom;

(d)    Senior Chief Musele’s Chiefdom;

(e)    Chief Matebo’s Chiefdom;

(f)    Wanyimwa/Kankozhi; and

(g)    Chovwe/Wamafwa

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science and Vocational Training (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the ministry has plans to build secondary schools in those districts that do not have any, and in those areas that have a high teacher-pupil ratio. However, and I want to emphasise for the hon. Member of Parliament …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Deputy Minister is being drowned.

Mr Mabumba: I want to emphasise the following sentence. These plans shall be implemented once the current secondary school construction projects are completed. I want the hon. Members of Parliament to understand that point from the context that there are on-going construction projects for secondary schools in various districts and provinces. Once these projects are completed, then, of course, there would be new projects in our budget including those projects, which may be undertaken in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF AGRICULTURE TRAINING INSTITUTE IN SOLWEZI

174. Mr Mwanza asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock whether the Government had any plans to establish an agriculture training institution in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Brigadier-General Kapaya): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock does not have plans to establish an agricultural training institution in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency. The ministry however, has one agriculture training institute in Solwezi for the province for in-service training for extension staff and farmers as well as five training centres in Mwinilunga, Zambezi, Kabompo, Kasempa and Mufumbwe districts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he knows that Solwezi West Constituency is one of the places which has the best soils in this country. It is in this vein that the people of Solwezi will be very grateful if the Government can consider constructing an agricultural training centre in that area.

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, we are glad to hear that Solwezi West Constituency provides the greatest potential for agriculture. However, we would like to state that the policy of the Government is to have one agriculture training centre in each province and in this regard, there is a training centre in all the provinces except for the newly-constituted province of Muchinga. In addition to this, we construct and run one farm training institute in every district, again, except in the new districts which have been created. It is our intention to ensure that all districts have agriculture training institutes.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

FISH BAN

175. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    how much money was allocated to fish ban enforcement programmes countrywide from 2007 to 2011, year by year;

(b)    why the Government delayed the release of funds meant for the enforcement of the annual fish ban; and

(c)    what measures the Government was taking to curb the use of illegal fishing methods such as the use of mosquito nets, fish traps and fish poisoning.

Brigadier-General Kapaya: Mr Speaker, the following table shows the amount of money that was allocated for annual fish ban activities countrywide from 2007 to 2011, year by year:

    Year              Amount
                   (ZMK)

2007    3,116,288,184
2008    1,793,307,927
2009       788,940,000
2010    1,393,012,892
2011       697,665,542

Mr Speaker, the annual fish ban activities are funded under the Fisheries Surveillance and Enforcement Programme. This programme also includes other fisheries enforcement activities and regulations intended to prevent the use of destructive fishing methods such as poisoning, explosives and ukutumpula. Ukutumpula is the system where you lay a net on one side and then you start hitting sticks in the water on the other side of the river. This forces the fish into the net. 

Mr Speaker, the following are some of the measures that the Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, has put in place in order to curb the use of illegal fishing methods:

(i)    community sensitisation against the vices of using illegal fishing methods;

(ii)    promotion of community participation in fisheries resource management activities through fisheries co-management arrangements;

(iii)    intensification of monitoring, control and surveillance operations through water and land patrols;

(iv)    promotion of alternative fishing methods and other alternative income generating activities such as aquaculture; and

(v)    encourage the community to take up farming activities as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the amounts allocated towards the monitoring of the fish ban during the period under review, in my view, sounds too little. I would like to know whether the Government has serious plans of increasing the funds towards fish ban monitoring.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, it is our desire to intensify the monitoring of the fish ban. However, we are constrained by restrictions of the money that is available to us. The hon. Member of Parliament may wish to know that, in 2011, the total budget for the Department of Fisheries was K6.7 billion. Again, in 2012, K6.7 billion has been allocated. Therefore, we are constrained by the financial situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, my question hinges on the enforcement of the law during the fish ban. Would the hon. Minister inform the House the measures the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is taking to deal with officers who are supposed to enforce the law during the period of the fish ban because they are the ones who confiscate the fish from those who are breaking the law, but begin selling it in the night. Therefore, what measures is his ministry doing to curb that problem?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the instruction to our officers in the department is to destroy the fish that has been confiscated. We would be grateful to receive reports about our officers that may be misbehaving in this regard and necessary disciplinary action will be taken against those that will be found wanting.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): I wanted to find out if at all there are any plans, especially in the long run, to do away with the fish ban exercise because it impacts negatively on the livelihood of our people in our respective constituencies.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the fish ban is the most effective method to try and protect the fish during the breeding season. It is for that reason that the Government has no intentions whatsoever of doing away with it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.
  
Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, the fish ban has not been very effective. What happens is that the inspectors confiscate fish from the marketers which we do not see them destroy. What initiative is the Government putting in place to ensure that the fish ban exercise is controlled by the fishing community? I am saying so because, I think, it is futile to continue doing things the same way. 

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, alongside the fish ban, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has engaged traditional leaders, through village management committees to sensitise the members of the community, against the habit of using inappropriate fishing methods as well as fishing during the ban when the fish is supposed to be breeding. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, as regards sensitisation and the involvement of traditional leaders, I would like to know how well equipped the ministry is to ensure that the officers at district level and, indeed, at any other level are able to reach these traditional leaders so that they put their hands together in order to properly sensitise the masses within the fishing areas.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, our officers have been properly trained. In this regard, they are equal to the task that is before them and they have been doing a good job.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CROP PRODUCTION IN CHILUBI DISTRICT

176. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock how many metric tonnes of the following crops were produced in Chilubi District, from 2009 to 2011, year by year:

(i)    Maize;
(ii)    Rice; and
(iii)    Cassava.

Brigadier-General Kapaya: Mr Speaker, the following are the quantities of maize, rice and cassava that were produced in Chilubi District from 2009 to 2011, year by year.

   Agriculture Session    Maize    Rice    Cassava

       2008/2009    1,703    863    158,406

       2009/2010    1,884    299    114,561

       2010/2011    2,973    1,163    132,426

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister be kind enough to educate me as to why the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has been lamentably failing to buy both rice and cassava from our peasant farmers in Chilubi District for quite a long time.
    
Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we are not aware that the FRA has not been buying rice and maize from Chilubi.

Hon. Government Members: Cassava!

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I am sorry about that. Cassava is not one of the crops that the FRA is mandated to buy even though we are encouraging the growth of cassava as a way of diversifying from maize because it is a much more robust crop when drought affects the country. Maybe, in future, this issue will be considered.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that the Government is, indeed, very interested in encouraging cassava growers to go on a full scale, currently, the Government is not so much involved in arranging for the marketing of the same commodity. Could I hear from the hon. Minister whether there are any other plans for the marketing of cassava, especially that which is fully grown, in the Luapula Province, Western Province and part of Muchinga Province?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, as of now, there are no immediate plans for the Government to buy cassava. As I said, since we are promoting the growth of cassava, I am sure the Government will reconsider its stance regarding its buying seriously.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, other than the good policy that was left by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government on maize …

Hon. Government Members interjected. 

Mr Ntundu: Can you keep quiet. Even the Vice-President is heckling.

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Gwembe, that is the sole function of the Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Just ask your question.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, apart from the good policy of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP)  that the  MMD Government left, which you have also taken on as Patriotic Front (PF), …

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: … what programme have you put in place to support the people of Chilubi in order for them to grow more maize?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the FISP is a programme intended to support the growth of agriculture in this country. It does not matter which party is going to be in the Government, agriculture is our greatest endowment in Zambia. Whatever Government that will come into power will definitely follow the programme of enhancing agriculture. With this effect, we are supporting farmers in Chilubi, under the FISP.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the PF Government has indicated that agriculture is important. What is this Government’s policy on crops other than maize? Do not talk about what you are going to do in future. What you are doing at the moment? 

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker that is a new question. 

However, I can still give a bonus answer. Last week, I said that we are in the process of revising the FISP which concentrates on promoting the growth of maize. When this policy is approved by the Cabinet, it will be made known. Obviously, there is a component of diversification in the programme, in line with the party manifesto.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how many metric tonnes of maize in Chilubi District went to waste between 2009 and 2011 due to poor storage. 
    
Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker that is a new question. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events. 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock indicated that the FRA has predominantly been supporting and promoting the purchase of maize. This was the case even under the MMD Government. Can he then confirm that according to the PF Government, maize is food and food is maize. If not, why can they not change the nomenclature of the FRA to maize reserve agency? 

Laughter 

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we are in the process of reviewing the Food Reserve Agency Act which restricts the FRA to its original objective of buying maize for strategic reserve purposes. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.     

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events. 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to disagree with my colleague who said that the FISP is the best way through which our farmers can be supported. To the contrary, I think that the previous Government …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

It is time for questions. 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he would consider taking a leaf from the United National Independence Party (UNIP) policy regarding farmers’ input. The arrangement in the UNIP era allowed farmers to access more inputs than they do at present. 

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: I would like to know whether we can take a leaf from that kind of arrangement. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I mentioned that we are in the process of reviewing the whole FISP so as to refine it and make it more responsive to its objectives. In this regard, I would not like to pre-empt what the Government is doing. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

REHABILITATION OF BRIDGES 

177. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    whether the Government was aware that the following bridges were destroyed by floods in 2011

(i)    Kalwilo, connecting Kabompo to Zambezi District;
(ii)    Maveve/Chikenge/Muluchi; and
(iii)    Kayombo/Lunyiwe; and

(b)    if so, when the bridges would be rehabilitated in order to facilitate the movement of goods and people.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the state of the Kalwilo Bridge on Kabompo to Zambezi via Kalwilo Road. However, the bridge was not washed away by floods in 2011. The structure is merely incomplete, as the contract for its construction was terminated in 2010 due to non-performance by the contractor. 
    
The bridge was worked on by the Road Construction Contractor (RCC), a company which was a subject of yesterday’s question, which was engaged to construct selected priority river crossings in the North-Western Province by the Government of the Republic of Zambia.  The contractor erected the bridge abutments only, without doing any further works, and the contract was terminated due to non-performance. 

Mr Speaker, the bridge on the Maveve/Chikenge/Muluchi Road has two piers and abutments which need reconstruction. The timber deck was washed away by heavy rains. However, efforts are in place to incorporate the works into the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) Work Plans under Phase II budgets for 2012. 

The Government is aware of the state of the bridge on the Kayombo/Lunyiwe Road. However, we wish to state that this bridge was not washed away by floods in 2011. Just like the first bridge, the structure is merely incomplete as the contract for its construction was terminated in 2010 due to non-performance by the contractor. This bridge was also worked on by the RCC. The contractor only managed to erect bridge abutments without any further works. The contract was terminated due to non-performance. 

Mr Speaker, the Kalwilo and Lunyiwe bridges on the Kabompo to Zambezi via Kalwilo and Kayombo/ Lunyiwe road were supposed to be worked on under the RCC contract which was terminated due to non-performance. The Government is currently carrying out works on the bridge using materials which were left by the contractor. As we mentioned yesterday, the said materials are at the Road Development Agency (RDA) premises at the regional office and will be used to complete the structures to facilitate the easy movement of goods and people.

The Kawilo Bridge will be worked on using the Force Account. Works will commence in April, 2012.

Lunyiwe Bridge will be worked on with funding from the DMMU and construction will be done by the army. Work will commence in April this year. 

Lastly, the bridge on Maveve/Chikenge/Mulunchi Road is not in the 2012 RDA Annual Work Plan. However, efforts to incorporate the works in the DMMU budget under Phase II of 2012 are being made. Work on this bridge will also start in April, 2012.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the RCC has abandoned construction works on bridges in the North-Western Province and other parts of the country and has run away to Namibia. In the standard contracts that I know, there are issues such as liquidated damages whereby, if a contractor abandons a site and runs away, he is supposed to pay the Government that kind of liability. Has the RCC paid the liquidated damages?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, the RCC is expected to pay the Republic of Zambia K2.7 billion in liquidated damages. We have since contacted them and will be writing to them again.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the PF Minister, …

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: … about Question 168 relating to the Zambezi/Nyakulenge via Kantonto Road that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East (Ms Sayifwanda) yesterday. If there is money in the Force Account, hon. Minister, why did you fail to mention, yesterday, that the Force Account could also be used to work on this important road which also leads to Chieftainess Nyakulenge? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am not an hon. Minister for the PF only, but for the Republic of Zambia, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … including the hon. Member

When it comes to using the Force Account, we look at the priorities which include the bridges in question. For example, if there was a problem in Magoye or in the hon. Member’s constituency, we could also look at the priorities. However, we believe that our people need to be protected, especially when they cannot cross the bridges. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, poor workmanship and abandoning the works is quite a worrying phenomenon in this country. I want to attribute that to, maybe, lack of monitoring. Would it not be wise, hon. Minister, to consider extending the offices of the RDA to districts so that some of these things can be prevented?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when it comes to inspection, we have seen that there has been a very big challenge in our ministry. It is for this reason that we are looking at the possibilities of ensuring that we have more inspectors as close to the districts as possible to make things easy. I think we will try and consider the hon. Member’s suggestion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, in the past, the RDA used to consider washed-away bridges as disasters and there used to be an allocation specifically for such emergencies. May I know why the Government no longer allocates money to such disasters?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, people should gauge the PF’s performance by giving it time to come up with a desirable budget which will be able to stand the test of time. With the budget that we had, we had to do everything we could to ensure that we produced a document which would enable us survive. If you give us this year, we shall come up with a budget that will include a lot of programmes.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that treating the collapse of bridges countrywide as a disaster and having the DMMU to take care of this, is actually creating confusion and, in the long run, the relevant ministry is losing sight of its function to deal with the problems of bridges every year as a programme? Does the Government want to follow that line of confusion?

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I believe that, as a Government, our desire is to do things properly. With regard to the declaration of collapsed bridges as a disaster, the DMMU had a system in the past of when to declare a disaster. However, we will try and see the best way of ensuring that we come up with a system that will be very efficient and cost effective. We will come up with a way of ensuring that when there is a disaster, things are attended to quickly rather than the way things are at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, shortly before the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe rose to ask the hon. Minister a question, he indicated that he was seeking more time, to settle down, I suppose, so that the Government could make a desirable Budget. To borrow from his words, can he confirm, therefore, that the Budget that we are running now is undesirable because the bridges in the North-Western Province have been washed away, thereby making my matrimonial ratings drop tremendously, because I am married from there, but do not go there because of the bad roads.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Divorce!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member’s matrimonial rating has nothing to do with the budget.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: He was here when the Budget was being approved and I think he would have taken that into consideration. What I was saying is that we will try and ensure that there are bridges throughout the country. We will try and repair the bridges as much as possible.

I thank you, Sir.

______________

BILLS

THE ANTI-CORRUPTION BILL, 2012

The Minister of Justice (Mr S. S. Zulu): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012. The object of the Bill is to:

(a)    continue the existence of the Anti-Corruption Commission and provide for its powers and functions; 

(b)    provide for the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution and punishment of corrupt practices and related offences based on the rule of law, integrity, transparency, accountability and management of public affairs and property; 

(c)    provide for the development, implementation and maintenance of coordinated anti-corruption strategies through the promotion of public participation; 

(d)    provide for the protection of witnesses, experts, victims and other persons assisting the commission; 

(e)    provide for the nullification of corrupt transactions; 

(f)    provide for payment of compensation for damage arising out of corrupt activities; 

(g)    domesticate the United Nations Convention Against Corruption, the African Union Convention on Preventing and Combating Corruption, the Southern African Development Community Protocol Against Corruption, and other regional and international instruments on corruption to which Zambia is a party; 

(h)    repeal and replace the Anti-Corruption Act, 2010; and

(i)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 23rd March, 2012. Hon. Members who which to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE PENAL CODE (Amendment) BILL, 2012

Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2012. The object of this Bill is to amend the Penal Code so as to:

(a)    repeal the offence of abuse of authority of office; and

(b)    provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 23rd March, 2012. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

_____________ {mospagebreak}

MOTIONS

DEVELOP A BROADLY SHARED ECONOMIC AND HUMAN DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that, in view of the inadequate benefits accruing to the people of Zambia from the country’s natural resources despite the positive economic growth rates in the last decade, this House urges the Government, as a matter of urgency, to develop a broadly shared economic and human development strategy.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded:

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for approving and giving me this opportunity to move this Motion in this legislative sitting of the Eleventh National Assembly. I wish to start by thanking the Parliament’s Journals staff for giving this Motion a title that makes sense. Ably guided by officers from both the Parliament’s journals and research offices, I conducted field and desk studies in order to arrive at the points contained in the Motion. Indebted, therefore, I am to your office and that of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the professional guidance that is constantly available.

Mr Speaker, this is a continuation of my desire to support this Government where positive policy intervention is needed. It is also an answer to Hon. Chikwanda’s appeal, yesterday, that only we, Zambians, will develop Zambia, and that we must join hands to find common solutions. This Motion also aims at giving practical effect to the on-going discourse by citizens, both inside our country and in the Diaspora, about our past, present and future regarding our wealth endowment and the continued lack of benefit for our people.

Mr Speaker, the challenges besetting Zambia, today, are broad, deep-rooted, unique and costly to resolve. Unemployment levels, without informal jobs, are around 90 per cent and this requires the creation of at least 4.8 million new formal jobs. High poverty levels, which are, partly, a consequence of unemployment, are reflected in, at least, 6 million people living below the poverty datum line. The country also faces the challenge of how to grow micro and medium enterprises so that the sectors contribute meaningfully to the gross domestic product (GDP) and the creation of new jobs.

Mr Speaker, this Motion, therefore, is a response to the painful fact that we continue failing to reap any benefits from the rich mineral wealth and soils. Neither are we benefiting from the rich tourism potential. Historically, we nationalised private industries in the late 1960s through to the mid-1970s. By the late 1980s, we had run all of them down. According to David Reed and Dr Guy Scott, who wrote in an inspiring book entitled Economics of Resource Management, we started privatising these parastatals at the insistence of the donor community in the 1990s and, by 2001, we had reversed all the achievements Zambia had attained in terms of sustainable jobs and level of industrialisation.

Sir, during the first half of the last decade, we benefited from the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) initiative, in which we were saved from paying close to US$900 million annual interest and capital expenses. Over the same period, copper prices went up and, as a consequence, so did production. Despite that, unemployment and poverty continued to have a profound presence in our society and we continued funding our infrastructure development through loans and grants. The questions are: how much do we earn from the natural wealth endowment? Is it adequate? Where does this wealth go? Who owns our wealth? Is there anything we can do to reverse the rich nation, poor citizens scenario? Lack of a well-thought and cohesive development strategy is at the core of this scenario.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Alexander Chikwanda, has constantly awakened us to the fact that, while Zambia had about 400,000 formal jobs, with a population of over just over 3 million at independence, the country, now, has about 600,000 formal jobs and a population of over 13 million. So, where there was a job feeding about eight mouths, in 1964, we, now, have one job attempting to feed over twenty-two hungry mouths. 

Sir, the problem is, further, compounded by the fact that, while the jobs in 1964 were decent, permanent and with reliable pensions, today, they are usually casual, poorly paid and with no security of tenure, thus making poverty a permanent phenomenon in most Zambian homes. If the dependence ratio is 1:8, it means that we have fourteen mouths that, in the absence of one formal job, go unfed. The number of formal jobs is too small to go round and poverty is the resulting phenomenon. This scenario is confirmed by our economic statistics for 2010. With a population of 12.9 million people, a GDP at US$16.2 billion, life expectancy at forty-eight years, infant mortality rate at sixty-nine deaths per every 1,000 births and the real unemployment rate hovering at about 90 per cent, if you include the discouraged in your denominator, and all this against a background of ten years of solid economic growth and forty-seven years of peace, the picture is made even more sad to look at. If this is what emerges despite all those advantages, then, something is fundamentally wrong. The Patriotic Front (PF) is not being blamed in this Motion. Rather, it is being partnered to find a common solution to an identified challenge. 

Mr Speaker, Zambia has a rich complex of known mineral deposits and a wide unspoiled natural habitat, which can provide a basis for mining, agriculture, tourism and industrial development. The country also possesses numerous opportunities ranging from the availability of resources like capital, technology and labour, which can be harnessed to launch a national war on unemployment, poverty and underdevelopment. Further, we should view our country as being centrally located rather than landlocked. There are advantages that come with being in this position. 

Mr Speaker, Zambia is wealthy, but we do not know where the wealth of the nation goes? The methods of funding of the public goods and services through loans, grants and through very little taxes is unacceptable. 

Sir, economic liberalisation of the 1990’s and the subsequent privatisation of parastatals were dictated to us by the donor community. Again, our ignorance sustained the detrimental exercise even when unemployment and poverty levels rose around us; even when, each time we privatised our industry, we saw plant and machinery dismantled and taken out of our country piece by piece. We were too glad to provide foreign exchange to import the same products that, only a few months previously, used to be manufactured by ourselves. “It’s a new culture,” we shouted on top of our voices. To date, we are still privatising in a manner that confounds conventional thinking.

Mr Speaker, we saw our flourishing industries, such as Lusaka Engineering Company (LENCO), which used to manufacture buses and trailers, and other equipment dismantled and turned into a warehouse for beans and rice by the so-called investors. For close to two decades, we continued with the same modus operandi of privatising our parastatals in a manner that immediately spelt misery and a reversal of our previous achievements. Never did we pause to ask ourselves whether we were doing things the right way

Mr Speaker, Zambia has recorded a positive gross domestic product (GDP) growth since 1999. From 2002, this growth has consistently been above 4 per cent and rose to 7.6 per cent in 2010. According to the 2010 United National Development Programme (UNDP) Assessment of Development Results Evaluation contribution in Zambia, in spite of having seen decent economic growth, debt relief and a period characterised by the implementation of the Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper (PRSP) programme, abject poverty remains the greatest challenge to development in Zambia. The report further observes that, in spite of some economic growth, during the Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP) period, poverty also increased.

Mr Speaker, recent trends demand strategies for meaningful economic growth that are underwritten by shared economic development. The issues underpinning the challenges facing the youth are confirmed by Zambia’s demographic characteristics, which show that the country’s population is divided into different components with different challenges. These population components, especially the one that includes the working age group, require dedicated interventions.

Mr Speaker, parents are not working and, therefore, are unable to provide education for their children. The youth do not get employed when they reach employment age and many of them never work at all even after going through tertiary education. This means that we are creating a society of uneducated, unskilled, inexperienced and uncompetitive human capital, meaning that we will continue exporting job opportunities to foreign countries that will send the so-called expatriate staff to Zambia and that wealth retention in our domestic economy will be very minimal because wealth management will not be done by indigenous hands. The list of implications is long. 

Mr Speaker, my worst fears are that we are getting closer and closer to Africa’s economic and political integration at a time when we are so disproportionately behind in development. 

Mr Speaker, the issues affecting the youths needs to be understood from the recent past events which have seen them increasingly demonstrate unbelievable strength in organised formations with lethal levels of energy to do anything. They are not even scared to die. We, therefore, need to turn this potent energy into productive energy through interventions that will afforded them entrepreneurship and employment opportunities as soon as the education and training system churns them out. 

Mr Speaker, the following are the recent demonstrations of the energetic nature of our youths:

(i)     they took keen interest in the affairs of the nation and registered en mass and, when an opportunity was afforded them, they voted without fail and are, to a large extent, credited for the peaceful change of Government in which the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was replaced by the PF; 

(ii)    during the African Cup of Nations tournament, as our national team played and won or drew, our youths got onto the streets throughout the country and walked several kilometres late in the night on journeys to nowhere in apparent celebration of the team’s successes. A number of them even lost their lives. One day, that journey by the youth will be a journey to somewhere. With those fears in mind, I would like to implore all hon. Members of Parliament and other leaders in the civil society and the Civil Service to be very afraid of the challenge posed by the youth, who are jobless, penniless and hungry; and

(iii)    the youth have not stopped expressing themselves. Writing in the Watchdog publication of 14th February, 2012, one of the youths responded to the debate about realignment of districts and re-naming of national assets as follows:

“President Sata should focus on creating jobs, especially, for us the youth. That is why we voted for him. He should stop wasting our time on these useless things of renaming dilapidated structures or shifting around poverty stricken districts. He needs to create, at least, 900,000 jobs in 2012. Before then, he must get the kwacha back to the K4, 700 levels. If he cannot do this, then, we do not need him. Period!”

At least the youth is not saying, ‘Don’t kubeba’ to the PF. Rather, he or she is reminding you of the deliverables contained in the social contract you signed with them on the 20th of September, 2012.

Mr Speaker, our biggest trading partner is South Africa and, today, it is positioning itself to be the centre of manufacturing in an economically and politically integrated Africa while viewing the rest of the continent, especially ourselves, as an assured market. South Africa’s firms do not come to Zambia to seek partnerships, but markets. They come with a view to increasing the retail floor space for their products we, with our insatiable appetite for imported products giving them exactly what they want. In short, South Africa is here to ensure that we underwrite the sustainability of its job creation initiatives. The strategy that must be crafted, therefore, must result in economic development beyond the economic growth that we have seen in the last decade.

Mr Speaker, motivations for the need to craft a completely new economic and human development strategy are many, and all of them dominant. According to the selected social economic indicators for 2010 from the Central Statistical Office (CSO), South Africa topped the list of our sources of imports accounting for an average of 43.1 per cent over a five-year period. As our export destination, South Africa was second to Switzerland at an average of 10.1 percent over the same period, thus giving an average ratio of 1:8 trade imbalances. Rightly so, we have been talking about this trade imbalance which, during some years, has been as bad as 1:8 against us ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulusa: … but, then, we just talk with no plan in mind. While we are pitted against a ruling party in South Africa whose record of crafting policies should be highlighted to appreciate who we are up against, the evolution of policy-formulation within our country needs to be taken up. 

Mr Speaker, currently, none of our political parties with capacity to form a Government are working on a strategy on how they would rule in case they suddenly found themselves headed for State House. They start with manifestos and end with them. A manifesto is supposed to be a summary of deliverables taken from a social and economic management strategy.

Mr Speaker, the need for a broadly shared economic and human development strategy is paramount to our national desire to reverse the current status quo of a Zambia with an uncompetitive economy and widespread underdevelopment. This same Zambia is a country with a 13.4 million domestic consumer base. A Zambia with a K20 billion economy fed by imports. 

   Zambia has rich soils for primary agriculture and the potential for the development of an agro-industry which can contribute to the catering of the food needs for the 7 billion plus population out there. This is a Zambia with copper deposits that are not easily found in the other parts of the world in equal amounts and grade. However, what has been our greatest challenge? Our biggest challenge has been the nature of our development intervention strategies. They are not being crafted in a manner that enables them to be productive.

Sir, let me demonstrate to you on how well meaning policies are not actively implemented to the letter. In the 2012 Budget by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Mr Alexander Chikwanda, in reference to banks, he proposed to abolish the 40 per cent co-operate tax for banks in order to enhance their liquidity. The objective of this move was to facilitate low cost borrowing by enterprises. 

Mr Speaker,  our policy interventions are technical and carry good intentions, but lack security of delivery. They lack ownership of productive outcomes and measureable outputs. They also surrender the outputs of the incentives to the whims of the recipients of those incentives, thereby giving allowance to recipients of the initiatives to do as they please with the incentives. This is the reason almost all the investors who were given tax rebates closed shop and left immediately after the expiration of the tax holiday periods.

Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to suggest a practical alternative to the policy intervention regarding the lowered co-operate tax rate for banks. At this point, I would ask the Government to withdraw the incentive and then ask the banks to demonstrate whether the objective of jobs creation through enterprise creation underwritten by increased bank lending made possible through reduced co-operate tax for the banking sector.

Mr Speaker, the alternative intervention would be to introduce a tax band as well as a score card system in order to assist banks qualify for a tax range that will offer them a choice of an individual co-operate tax rate based on each bank’s contribution towards the objective of job creation. This would be better instead of fixing co-operate tax at 40 per cent. Banks can be offered tax rates of between a minimum of 0 per cent and a maximum of 40 per cent. If a particular bank earned a K100 billion income before tax, but  increased its lending to new a enterprise by K100 billion, then it should qualify for an incentive. As a result of such lending, jobs that qualify for Pay-As-You-Earn deductions are created. This will mean that existing and new enterprises will start contributing more to the fiscus than they did before the loans. Such a bank would qualify after some time for a zero tax rate. On the other hand, if a bank cannot demonstrate any additional lending to new and existing enterprises, relative to its net profit before tax, it  should pay co-operate tax at 40 per cent.

Mr Speaker, this initiative allows you to retain ownership of the incentive and only releasing it to the deserving. The Bible in Luke 8:5-8 reads:

“A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds of the air ate it up. Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown. And when he had said these things, he cried, ‘He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Sir, this scripture discourages us from sowing our seeds on any how because some of it will land on hard rock and will not germinate.

Mr Speaker, the above analysis confirms that policy formulation is not a simple exercise. Any policy crafted must be proactive enough to lead the nation the desired goal. This is the most difficult part. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning alluded to this issue in his address when he officiated at the 21st Anniversary Ball for the Zambia Institute of Banking and Financial Services. The Post newspaper quoted him as follows:

“The current under-development Zambia and other African countries were experiencing was due to intellectual impoverishment. Money is a consequence of ideas and those ideas have to be bankable, viable and need to have nationality. Content and quite often, our development has stagnated, and in some cases, even regressed, not because we do not have resources. Our stagnation or regression in Zambia and in the rest of Africa essentially has its origins in moral intellectual bankruptcy.” 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I urge this House to debate this Motion passionately and pass it without opposition because indeed, there is a problem. This Motion proposes the creation of a strategy aimed at sorting out the challenges of our people. Our citizens consume far too little and live with the prospects of unemployment, poverty, hunger, squalor, disease and early death.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Belemu: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, when I called upon by my colleague to second this Motion which is on the Floor, I thought that I should agree for three principal reasons. The first one is that it is within the intent and spirit of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act No. 9 of 2006. The said Act seeks to correct some of the structural and economic imbalances which have disadvantaged the citizens in their quest to effectively participate in the economic growth of the country.

Sir, Zambia is endowed with abundant natural resources. We can name so many of them, including the mineral wealth and 35 per cent of the water resources in Southern Africa. However, the paradox of all this is that even in the midst of all these endowments, the citizens of this country continue to appear like they are spectators in their own country.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, a number of colleagues that we interact with from within the region and elsewhere, tend to think Zambia is a get-rich-quick destination for foreigners. The people from outside this country come to make the monies and within a short time depart. While all this is happening, the poverty levels and other factors that affect the Zambians continue to deteriorate.

Sir, it is against this background, therefore, that I agreed that this motion must be supported. 

Mr Speaker, we have been told so many times that Zambia is a good investment destination. I know that when people speak about Zambia being a good investment destination, what comes to people’s minds is the foreign direct investment and other related investment. 

Sir, the Motion that is before us seeks to develop a strategy that will ensure that Zambians, first of all, begin to participate in the economic activities of the country. The strategy should also come up with ways which can make it possible for all Zambians to benefits from the wealth of this country. It is important for us all to move forward together as one. It is only ourselves who can develop this country. I think that this Motion must be supported by all of us.

Mr Speaker, the second reason I agreed to support this Motion is that it is politically correct. There have been several attempts by Government to try and redress the numerous economic issues that affect the citizens of this country. We can go back to the period soon after independence in the 1960s when we embarked on some programmes that were aimed at enhancing the participation of Zambians in economic activities. We have in mind, the Matero Reforms of 1968 and 1969. In the 1990s, we had the privatisation programmes. When you look at the core of these initiatives, you will notice that their aim was to help Zambians to participate in the economic activities of the country, but this does not seem to be the case as we stand today.

Sir, I say that this Motion is politically correct because the people that voted us into office, whether in the Opposition or Government, have needs. They are being disadvantaged and have expectations that they want us to fulfill. This Motion is politically correct because if we take corrective measures now, it will help us as we go forward as a country and not as a party or individuals. 

   It is politically correct that if our colleagues in the PF Government want me to continue winning with landslide victories in my constituency, they must ignore this Motion because it touches the lives of the people that we represent here. In fact, the more they reject this Motion, the more advantages I have as an individual. At this particular time, we are not looking at individual advantages or party advantages. We are looking at what is important for the Zambian people.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, I can assure you that I will continue to win with a landslide as long as those in Government do not address the numerous problems that the Zambian people are looking forward to being addressed. 

Mr Speaker, the third reason I support this Motion is because at the time that I was expelled from school, I had the privileged of being tutored by Hon. Sichinga. We used to squat in his office and at that time, we agreed on so many policy issues. His theme that time was, “As young men, you must go into entrepreneurship.” He mentioned that there was no room to look for jobs, especially if one had been expelled. The solution was for you to go into entrepreneurship and he gave a number of tricks and ideas that we could implement. So, as I stand here, I share a vision with the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.  Therefore, it is only important that I do not let him down. That is why I am in support of this Motion. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the summary of what I am saying is that this is a very important Motion. It goes beyond our partisan interests. It goes beyond our individual interests. We must have a shared vision and strategy if this country has to move forward. I know that as the United Party for National Development (UPND), we should be forming Government soon.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, in that regard, therefore, we do not want to find a chaotic situation in the country. We want to develop a strategy that we will share this with our colleagues that side, who will, by that time be in the Opposition and will be seated on this side (left) of the house.

Interruptions

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, those who like heckling must know that I am leaving this seat for them as I go that side (right).

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, what will this strategy do? This strategy will attend to the skills gap which is an answer to a number of our political and economic situations in the country. As we develop our human capacity, we are assured of economic development. 

Mr Speaker, the second point is that it will attend to quantity of employment in the country. As we speak, we are told that the female population is 51 per cent against the male population of 49 per cent. When you go into detail, you will realise that only 17 per cent of managerial positions are held by women in the country. This strategy will also look into inequalities in terms of capacities of women vis-à-vis, men.

Mr Speaker, it will also enhance ownership and control of productive assets by citizens. This will lessen the number of headaches and troubles that we have to undergo such as chasing for certain nationals on account of them not adhering to the labour laws. As we increase ownership and control of productive assets in the hands of Zambians, we are assured of economic development. It will also ensure that we develop in the favour of the citizens. A number of times, citizens have been left as spectators. 

Mr Sichinga walked in.

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, I am privileged that my first tutor has come.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, I am privileged that I have had so many tutors. As I look across, I can also see Hon. Masebo who was also my boss. On this side (left), there are so many and some of them are doctors.

Mr Speaker, the bottom line is that we need to ensure that the economic growth of this country is in the hands of Zambians. We can only do so if we have a shared vision and strategy as the people of Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga(Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I stand to support this Motion. This is one of the motions on which we do not even need to fight. Someone is trying to give some free advice through this Motion. Therefore, by this Motion coming here, those in the Government are very lucky.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us allow the hon. Member to debate in silence. 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, when the mover told me about it, I asked him why he did not give the document to the hon. Ministry of Finance and National Planning so that he could read through it. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning could have gone further to deal with certain items. The hon. Minster is simply concerned about the lack of benefits for Zambians from their natural resources. For example, when they tell us that the GDP is 6 per cent or 7 per cent, you will find that on the ground the common Zambian is not benefiting from such growth. This Motion is bringing to the Floor what we should share with the citizens of this country. Nobody is arguing. I find it strange that when people go into power, they stop listening. I think someone bewitches them and that is why they do that.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Sir, you will find that instead of listening, they spend time defending what is not necessary. They want to heckle when they are supposed to listen. You should understand that there are people that mean well when they advise you. Others will only see the wrong things once they move to this side (Opposition). Before they move to this side, they are blind.

Mr Speaker, those people who are in the Government were our friends and we used to propose certain things together. From the time they went to that side of the House, I wonder what has gone into their heads. Maybe, they have been bewitched.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: When they go there, they begin…

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, let us concentrate on the Motion as opposed to sorcery.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, it is these same things that worry me. Why is it that they do not understand? That is why I begin to think about sorcery, but with your advice, Mr Speaker, I will leave that topic. We are supporting this Motion because it is looking at solutions to our problems. The proposal that he has made on the banks is very good. He said that we removed the 40 per cent tax on banks. In our law, let us say that if a bank wants to benefit from this tax relief, it should show us how much it has lent out to the people. The liquidity which the banks are enjoying should support local enterprises. However, at the moment, where is the money from the banks going? The banks are now even rushing to buy treasury bills.  

   We want to see banks open up in support of most of small-scale entrepreneurs. People should able to do certain things. This should apply to every Zambian and for anyone who has an idea of doing something so that we all benefit from the resources of the country. 

Mr Speaker, in situations where if resources are in the North-Western Province, we must remember that the people there also want to benefit without necessarily thinking that sharing properly can only be done when the mine is moved from the North-Western Province to the Copperbelt. Even if the resources were in Chirundu or Itezhi-tezhi, we cannot move them to the Central Province on the supposition that, then, we will benefit. Let the resources be where they are for the benefit of all Zambians. People will not benefit by moving the resources or by using thoughts, imagination or the perception … 

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … that now that Chirundu is in the Lusaka Province, and yet it maintains its geographic position, it will develop. This is not what we are talking about. This idea of perception, that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning hates so much, is what we are appealing against. Let all Zambians benefit. 

Hon. Government Members: Do not spoil the Motion!

Mr Muntanga: This Motion should be well supported. There is no way I will spoil it by not telling you the truth. 

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: The problem is that you want to hear what you want to hear. Listen to the other side of the story. 

Mr Speaker, this Motion is supported because every Zambian will benefit from what it is calling for. 

With these few remarks, I thank you. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this chance to contribute to this non-controversial Motion for and on behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency. 

Mr Speaker, shared economic and human development is critical to the well-being of every Zambian. It is just that the Motion seems to be pushing an already open door … 
    
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: … because the strategies, policies and the document from which we tap whatever we need to do in order to ensure equitable or broadly shared economic and human development are there. 

Mr Speaker, the colleagues on your left and my immediate right have given us very valued and valuable advice for some time in this House and we have been able to learn from it. 

Mr Speaker, strategies are there. We have the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), a document that was ably and clearly developed by the previous Government. We also have another strategy, depending on how you look it, the Budget which was presented to this august House. It is yet another strategy to ensure that the resources are shared properly. 

We also know that the commander of any army dictates the strategies and His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia has been doing this. One such thing, as much as it may be looked at differently, is the creation of other districts so that we can broadly share the resources. 

Mr Speaker, the Vision 2030 is yet another strategy from which we can tap. It is a vision that we have been following and I think that from it comes the SNDP. All these, however, are amplified in our PF manifesto, a document that we used to sell the party. It is on the basis of the contents of this document that the Zambian people gave us the mandate to rule this country. This document, on page 25, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that this country and the PF, in particular, have the strategy that is amplified in its manifesto. A strategy can be given a lot of other names. We can call it a manifesto, strategy or plan. This is what each particular party or organisation uses to execute and, indeed, deliver on its promises. 

Mr Speaker, we were elected on the basis of the contents of the manifesto and this particular manifesto is a strategy for five years. It may be reviewed in 2016. There is a political will to this effect to ensure that the resources of this country are equitably shared and this can be demonstrated by the speech that was delivered during the Official Opening of Parliament by His Excellency. 

Mr Speaker, this Government has also embarked on issues to do with legal reforms, which are aimed at ensuring that resources are utilised transparently. 

The realignment of the financial year to the tax year is one kind of legal reform that this PF Government has embarked on so that the people of Zambia, in particular those of Lupososhi, can enjoy the country’s economic growth. 

Mr Speaker, the SNDP also prioritises tourism in this country and it is clearly stated that it also prioritises education and skills training. All that is remaining is for each particular ministry that has been mandated to execute all the plans which are stated in the manifesto to pick up their component and implement it. That is why I am saying that the Motion is non-controversial. It is more or less pushing an already open door because these issues are being handled by respective ministries.

In the manifesto, Mr Speaker, you will find that it is written there that the youths shall be involved in the socio-economic development of the country. 

Therefore, Mr Speaker, we can either support the Motion on the Floor or not, but it is there …

Laughter

Mr Bwalya: … because the issues that are raised in that Motion are those that cut across the board. There are issues that are being addressed by the current PF Government. The previous Government tried its best to address some of the issues. So, we have continued on that route and we will ensure that we develop and build up on that which they started. I think this was clearly stated by His Excellency the President when he said that we will complete all the projects which were started by the previous regime.

Sir, the reduction or the lowering of the corporate tax in the banking sector is a good strategy. A strategy that is aimed at ensuring that banks can now pass on the benefits either in form of job creation or in form of lowering lending rates so that as many Zambians as possible can access credit. 

Mr Speaker, the creation of jobs is not a six-month job. It is a job that should be done over a period of time. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: The MMD was in power for almost twenty years. It did not create a lot of jobs in the first year of its rule. The youths that woke up on that day to vote for us are, indeed, looking for jobs. That is true. That is why, Mr Speaker, it beats me flat when I hear people say do not employ cadres. It beats me flat because the cadres are the people that voted for us. They are Zambians. In fact, most of them are our own wives, brothers, sister, uncles and nephews and they are the youths that voted for this Government. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, the Motion on the Floor is, indeed, a welcome one. All we can say is that we are in the same boat.

Interruptions

Hon. MMD Members: Which boat?

Mr Bwalya: The boat of development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Sir, human development is key to any nation’s development. That is why the Ministry of Education, Science, Technology and Vocational Training is equal to the task to ensure that youths of this country acquire the necessary skills to enable them stand on their feet and be able to fend for themselves.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: In my opinion, there appears to be very broad agreement on this Motion so, I will proceed to wind up the debate.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I am very thankful that you have managed to spot my indication to add my voice to the debate on this Motion that, in my view, is non-controversial

Sir, sometimes, I worry about posterity and how it is going to judge us once we leave this Chamber. 

Let me say I want to thank Hon. Mulusa for having well thought through this non-aggressive and innocent Motion.

Sir, I also wish to state that there is a biblical teaching that I will paraphrase and it says, “In the midst of plenty, a fool starves”. It has deep meaning. It has extremely deep meaning that those of us who are privileged and honoured to come and serve other human beings must always put in front of us. 

Hon. Mulusa indicated that this country is blessed with a lot of natural resources. God gave us what we have today and said go into this place and use it properly to the benefit of your people. Hon. Mulusa was very clear in his statement that we need to do something about the current situation. To take from what the hon. Member of Parliament for Lupososhi said, he said that we are pushing an already opened door and I thank him for that most sincerely. However, in a place where there is congestion and then there is a fire, the fire exit must be used. It is up to us seated in this Chamber, today, to realise that things are not alright outside this Chamber. It is up to us to realise that we need to realign our thoughts. It is sad that simple mathematics has become unpopular today.

For example, if you go to Kitwe, what you will be greeted by as you approach that town is a big heap of slag in Chief Nkana’s Chiefdom, a seemly bottomless pit where all the resources were taken out to help to build London. That is a fact. All the resources were taken out to help to build Salisbury, now Harare, while Chief Nkana and his subjects are wallowing in poverty. This is what I mean when I say that in the midst of plenty, a fool starves.

How do we remedy a matter that is brought out so clearly? I have a mine in the constituency that I represent. The mine is called Albindon Nickel Project. Now, it is clear that we are operating under the laws of colonial hegemony and if we do not realise quickly that we are still operating under the laws of colonial hegemony, our people will be our own enemies. One day, they will rise and say, “How come you are enjoying and we are not.” It is because of the policies which we have put in place for ourselves and our people.

We have said, time and time again, that people need to use the land that God gave them as equity. If you go to the United Arab Emirates interface of investment and say you want to invest there. They will first tell you to find a local person to partner with. That is a rule they have set in order to reduce capital flight. In the case of our country, people come and we give them an investment licence and tell them to go and make money. Every single day, they will put their money into an account and the money is flown to their country of origin, leaving this county where our umbilical codes were buried with nothing. So, we are not using our equity properly. 

My view is that we need to agree here that, progressively, we can make it, instead of our colleagues on your right hand side running commentaries as though they will be here forever. Posterity will judge us harshly. There will be no thin line to between the PF, MMD or UPND. We all have a responsibility that we must not lose sight of.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I seek protection from my uncle.

Mr Speaker: You are fully protected from those who are debating while seated. You have maximum protection.

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in a country such as Zimbabwe that got independent much later than we did, they have embarked on a programme of indigenisation. It is a deliberate policy to empower local people and make them big time entrepreneurs for them to employ their own. This is so that money is not flown out of that country. In South Africa, it was called affirmative action, where people of the nature of Dr Guy Scott, a politician, at the time the country got independent, chose to go into business. I am talking about people like Cyril Ramaphosa and Tokyo Sexwale. They all moved out of the mainstream politics to go and make sure that the rand remained in South Africa and they employed fellow citizens. That is what Hon. Mulusa is seeking to achieve  through his Motion.

Hon. PF Members: Who is arguing?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let us have some patience. It is a virtue.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, as a matter of fact, I want to appreciate that, sometimes, it is important to also make a declaration that we are all experts at being awkward. I am trying to put across a very important point that will see us uplift people from squalor and change the status of our people as proposed by Hon. Mulusa. Now, if people are going to think that we are just doing politics and ask me who is arguing with that, I worry and quiver at that. What I was saying is that by the time I am at the age of Hon. Guy Scott, I do not want posterity to judge me harshly that I was in Parliament when Hon. Mulusa brought an innocent Motion to the Table to try which I did not support.

Sir, I want to come to another point with specific reference to my constituency - and I am not ashamed to say the constituency that I represent to correct myself, because it is not mine. In the constituency that I represent, we have the biggest sugar industry probably south of the equator. This brings me now to the issues of labour laws. I do not know where the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour is, but his deputy is here. Hon. Mulusa, the hon. Member for Solwezi Central, tried to explain the ratio between the employed and unemployed. According to his statistics, he put it somewhere around one person feeding fourteen mouths. 

In Mazabuka, just last week, 168 people lost their jobs at the stroke of a pen by some mighty and powerful person, a Zambian person for that matter, representing a private company. That must never be allowed in this country. Now that Hon. Shamenda, the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour is here, I want to say that I am ready to work with him to stiffen the labour laws for people to now get into the realm of pensionable jobs. There is too much casualisation in this country. The casualisation that we are experiencing in this country is not only limited to private companies, local or international, but is also permeated its ugly face in quasi-governmental institutions such as the Zambia Electricity Corporation (ZESCO) and the one which was previously called Post and Telecommunications Company (PTC), the one the Government just took over from the Libyans.

Laughter {mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo: There are a lot of casual employees. We need to take this matter seriously and tackle it together. Our colleagues on the right should not pull in a directionless place where they say we are pushing an open door. Development is supposed to be progressive. They should appreciate what their colleague has laboured to do. It is on record that someone here said that we are pushing an open door. If there is fire, you break all the windows. 

The children that you see on the streets today are as a direct result of both the Ruling Party and the Opposition failing to put something in place in order to give them a bright future.

When Hon. Namugala, who is not here, was hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, she did a fantastic job to remove kids from the street, including the Manda Hill Bridge. Those kids will not be kids perpetually. They will be adults and will be angry adults. When they look at us, they see an enemy and they are going to pulverize us one day because those on your right are saying we are pushing an already open door. So, this is business as usual. This is a very serious Motion. I have said that we are still operating under a colonial hegemony, where we think that those of us who speak on other people’s affairs know it all. No, we do not. The onus is on the people who are in Government today. We will continue to ask our colleagues to do the right things and we will help them when they ask us. We are not competitors or enemies for goodness sake. In the constituency that I represent, there is a tiny number of PF members, but they are people I represent. In Lusaka, there is a huge number of PF, UPND and MMD members, whom the PF represents. What does that mean? It means that we have a common objective. No matter how one thinks, whether in a colloquial manner or otherwise, …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … we have a common objective which is to lift the living standards and share broadly the resources that God given us.

Sir, the school system is discriminatory. We have preached, time and time again, that the school system requires to be revolutionalised and changed completely because we have a lot of children with potential not just to be hon. Members pf Parliament, but to be neurosurgeons. However, because of the disadvantages of not having sufficient school places, a lot of children are bundled out of the school system annually and relegated to squalor and poverty.

I want to take a leaf from the quotation that Hon. Mulusa gave regarding what he read in The Watchdog. He said that there is no value in certain things that our colleagues are doing. I could never agree any further. I cannot see the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama, who is my hon. Minister here in Lusaka. I saw him on television doing somersaults and talking about realigning Chirundu. 

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: What value is there in realigning Chirundu when, in his constituency, there is squalor? How do you want to annex some huge responsibility when just here at Chibolya Primary School there is a big problem? Where is the value? You want to go 300 km to Itezhi-tezhi. What are you remapping?

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: Deuteronomy 19 v 14 says that, “Thou shall not change boundaries that were left by your ancestors.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Simple. It goes further to say that, “… cursed is he who …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Let us conduct business orderly. Please continue.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I was trying to say that many times, we miss the target. Together, we must agree that our people live in squalor and are not happy. I heard a song on radio calling us something. I will remember before my time elapses. They call us something in this song. It is basakalanyongo.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: Are you happy to be called that?

Hon. Member: Interpret it.

Mr Nkombo: I do not know what it means. This song says that when time comes to campaign, we are dear to you. When we vote for you, you run away. You will need those same votes in 2016. There is no more time for ‘don’t kubeba’. It will not pay off. Let us now collaborate. Let us work together.

We are called basakalanyongo and I am not proud to be called by that name. I am not happy at all. Therefore, together, we can prove to the people who are calling us basakalanyongo that we are actually decent human beings and that we came to this House to represent the true feelings, interests and aspirations of the people who cast their votes that morning of 20th September, 2011, when we won as a country. We won because we recorded a success democratically. We had a transition of Government and we are all happy but, if you do not move, we shall push.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to support the Motion which is non-controversial. What it recommends is straight forward. Therefore, it should not be over debated.

Hon. Government Member: Ikala kabili.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, when presenting the Budget, acknowledged that he inherited a solid economic foundation whereupon he must build. In that acknowledgement, he also pronounced that he would begin to tackle the whole issue of exploiting natural resources. In this regard, he listened to all of us and that is why he did not present the windfall tax in his Budget. It is in an effort to be able to exploit the natural resources in a meaningful manner in order to create jobs. Therefore, the first point is not crafting policy, but implementing policy and programmes. You inherited sound policies. The task that we have, as a nation, is one of implementation. We note that you are beginning to listen.

Interruption

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I am being reminded that his message is different. However, if we spend so much energy in always looking backwards without saying that we have built a particular platform from which we must move forward, then we will not progress as a nation. So, we must listen to each other.

Mr Speaker, I saw a caption last night on television where recipients of medicines from the mobile hospitals were complimenting the service. Let us use infrastructure that we have found in a more beneficial way for our people.

Mr Speaker, we are also conscious that some of the decisions that are going to help in exploiting the natural resources are measures such as increasing the minimum capital requirement that has been announced and also not abandoning the projects that you inherited, but attempt to complete them. 

Mr Speaker, all in all, we are saying that the most important thing to do is to listen and implement policies and programmes. We, from this side, support this Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, on behalf of the Government, I thank you for supporting the Motion.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the Motion presented is well-thought-out and structured. It is a matter of regret that some people tried to erode the moral of beacons and benchmarks of that very remarkable speech.

Sir, the Government is all inclusive. The fact that we are this side and others on the other side is just a question of convenience of sitting arrangements.

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: That is why we think that it is a rather puerile for people to insist for this and that. The governance of a country is continuous. Some of us started work under United National Independence Party (UNIP). When UNIP started to go wrong, we stood up and said so. Personally, I resigned in 1980 from the Kaunda Government and my reasons for resigning were that I did not agree with the governance style. Thereupon, we launched the MMD to overthrow the UNIP Government. When the MMD started to be a vehicle for personal aggrandisement for a party whose thrust was to line up the pockets of individuals, we left and formed the PF which put the MMD were it is. I do not want to be as belligerent as other people, but the MMD may be inexonerably headed for consignment to the garbage heap of history.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the remarkable ideas presented by Hon. Mulusa are worth studying and some of us will religiously study them. We promise further dialogue with him. All our offices and ministries are open to everybody, including the members of the Opposition. Those are not our offices as individual members of the PF. We are hon. Ministers in an institutional capacity. We are not there to represent our interests. We are there because you have reposed trust in us to represent the interests of the country. It is our aim and thrust that, at no time, will the country ever think that we misallocated or misplaced their confidence and trust.

Mr Speaker, in order not to emulate the belligerence of some of our hon. Members who want to stage a fight even where the circumstances are totally unwarrantable, we support this Motion without any reservation

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

   Mr Chikwanda: The institutions of the Government are not perfect and the people who run them, sometimes, have no direction. They have no motivation and commitment. So, it is our common challenge. We should put our heads together. We should put our intellectual and physical resources together in order to address the huge challenges that face our country.

Here, in Parliament, one of the things we will notice, even from the Budget, is that we have a huge structural imbalance. Seventy per cent of the Budget is recurrent. That means that only a small proportion of our Budget goes into development. Most of it goes to emoluments and related items. That is a huge challenge for all of us hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, on behalf of my colleagues, to whom I express gratitude for giving me the opportunity to sum up on behalf of the Government. We are supporting this Motion without any reservations whatsoever.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Boma!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I am really humbled by the response from the colleagues on both sides of the divide.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: The onus is, now, on the Government to ensure that what has been suggested in this Motion is implemented so that we are encouraged to continue sharing ideas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: I will take it upon myself to engage the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning so that we see that our country moves forward.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

ABOLITION AND ESTABLISHMENT OF GOVERNMENT MINISTRIES AND DEPARTMENTS

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that, in terms of Article 44, Sub-Article 2, Clause E of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, this House do approve the abolition and establishment of Government ministries and departments established by the President as here appended.

Mr Speaker, under Paragraph E of Clause 2 of Article 44, the President is empowered by the Constitution to abolish and establish Government ministries and departments as he sees fit subject to the approval of this House.

Sir, in the exercise of the stated constitutional powers, His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, abolished the following ministries:

(i)    the Ministry of Education, Science and Vocational Training;

(ii)    the Ministry of Lands, Energy and Water Development;

(iii)    the Ministry of Local Government, Housing, Early Education and Environmental Protection; and

(iiii)    the Ministry of Mines and Natural Resources.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President has established the following new ministries, which are merely reshuffled as assignments of the same departments.

(i)    the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education [Brining all the education together];

(ii)    the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection;

(iii)    the Ministry of Local Government and Housing; and

(iv)    the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development.

Sir, the functions and subject portfolios of the newly-established ministries are appended hereto. In addition, there is an addendum that has just been circulated, which corrects a few omissions. 

Mr Speaker, I am also very grateful to Hon. Request Muntanga for pointing out that we have a small job to do under the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. There is mention of Natural Resources Development Colleges falling under the ministry responsible for natural resources. In fact, this is the college under the aegis of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. He implores me to change the wording here because it is very misleading.

Mr Speaker, the restructuring of Government ministries is a continuous exercise aimed at improving efficiency in service delivery in the ministries. In this regard, I wish to request this august House to favourably consider these measures taken by His Excellency the President.

Sir, this is a normal reassignment of responsibilities within the Government. It does not involve an increase or decrease in the number of ministries. It does not involve the creation or destruction of any departments; of any jobs. It is the on-going normal process of reorganising the governance battlefield, if you like. I, therefore, recommend the House to approve these changes.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, we wish to place on record, from this side of the House, that we are quite pleased with the Government that, at least, the procedure and process has been followed in establishing and rearranging the ministries. Therefore, we want to render our approval and support for this particular Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! MMD President! Boss!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I stand to support this Motion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Sir, I took time to go to His Honour the Vice-President to remind him to tide up the ministries, and he is a good friend, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: … except …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Muntanga: ... that we want the Government to do something clean. We are, now, getting tired of these changes every now and then. We want you to resolve that the ministries do not change at that rate. 

Sir, the good this is that the Government has learnt a lesson. Even when they announced change, I was very observant because the hon. Minister responsible for lands remained in his seat. The former hon. Minister of Mines even though no longer in that portfolio has remained in his seat because, in this House, there is order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: You must thank us for making you be orderly.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: If we had left you to do things your way, you would have continued shifting things around. 

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: kulila kupalangana!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to urge His Honour the Vice-President to, at least, work for three months before coming to this House with more changes of ministries. 

Mr Nkombo: Do not come next week!

Mr Muntanga: Do not come next week with another ministry called something else again. In the end, we will give you a blanket authority to change them as you wish.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Do not ask us to support you again because the rate at which we are changing these ministries is too high. I was getting so worried that, one day, I would find that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has been merged with the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. The next day, it was going to be the Ministry of Defence put together with the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. The hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour is lucky because he is specialised in labour and labour follows him. 

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, as you shift these ministries and departments, you should leave the ministries and departments for some people to take over. If the hon. Minister is not doing well, just remove him, but leave the ministry alone. We have just approved the appointment of the Secretary to the Cabinet. Those civil servants know what fits in these ministries properly.  You have just been throwing things without considering some factors. You were…

Hon. Opposition Member: Diamaka!

Mr Muntanga: Yes. I think, ‘diamaka’ is the correct word. Changanya.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! 

That word is unparliamentary. Please withdraw it.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I withdraw it. They were mixing things. I am looking forward to a time we are going to split the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to leave transport and communications alone so that the hon. Minister of Works and Supply concentrates on that portfolio.  There are many problems in that sector. We have a lot to do under works and supply, and we can leave transport and communications to the people who were there before, such as the Hon. Professor Luo. The present hon. Minister can be in charge of the Ministry of Transport and Communications. We can, then, give the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to Hon. Masebo …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … so that, as they come back after three months, they will do a good job. The Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) is more agricultural. We know that, in the old days, agriculture was under the Ministry of Rural Development. Since we have put the component of forestry under the Ministry of Lands, Energy and Water Development, we should ensure that the Forestry Department, which is, sometimes, hanging in agriculture goes to the appropriate ministry because it is a misfit in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. We have given you blanket authority to change it without coming back to this House so that we do not have problems.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1719 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 9th March, 2012.