Debates- Friday, 9th March, 2012

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Friday, 9th March, 2012

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have an announcement to make. The Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA)-Zambia Branch will join the rest of the Commonwealth countries in commemorating the Commonwealth Day on Monday, 12th March, 2012. 

The Zambia Branch has lined up activities involving youths drawn from the ten provinces of the Republic. These include a cultural presentation, in line with this year’s theme which is “Connecting Cultures”. 

I, therefore, wish to invite all Members of Parliament, as CPA branch members, to attend the commemoration of the Commonwealth Day on Monday, 12th March, 2012, at 0830 hours in the auditorium. I wish to urge hon. Members to give support to this important event in the CPA calendar. 

I thank you. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!



The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House, including the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, some idea of the business it will consider next week. 


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, on Tuesday, 13th March, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. 

On Wednesday, 14th March, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any and this will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider a Private Member’s Motion entitled “Mineral Royalty Tax Sharing Mechanism”, to be moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central Parliamentary Constituency. 

Sir, on Thursday, 15th March, 2012, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. The House will then consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will any. 

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 16th March, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time and this will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider any business that may remain outstanding. 

I thank you, Sir. 



Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the right to life is a constitutional provision. The State may guarantee this right by providing security to the citizens. In Zambia today, personal security has become a major problem. There is no day that passes without a child either being defiled or murdered. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the Government is doing to guarantee the security of the children, women and the elderly in our Republic. Can His Honour the Vice-President shed some light and thereby inform the nation on this matter. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, part of the justification for that question resides in much better data collection and publication of this matter that is now characterising our public life. 

I, however, agree with the implicit position of the hon. Member which is that these are unacceptable levels of violence, especially against children. We are doing whatever can be done to curb this violence. We are spending money on policing. We have also upped the police budget and are training over a thousand extra policemen this year. We will do what we can with the co-operation of the hon. Member. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the headline in one of today’s paper says: “Sata refuses to join tribal fights”. This is in reference to a 2009 proposal by the Southern Province Royal Foundation to split the province into two in the spirit of decentralisation. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether his Government understands the Constitution with regard to the Article on Fundamental Human Rights as provided for in Article 4, where nobody must be discriminated against, based on their tribal affiliation. 


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, who normally has a good sense of balance and humour, is taking the newspaper article seriously. His Excellency the President has been in politics in Zambia for more than forty years and, surely, we can all say that we know him. If there is anybody who likes to playfully provoke people like the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, it is him. I will advise, on a purely personal level, that the right way to take him is often to simply laugh and ignore the implications. 


The Vice-President: However, the way the question was worded seems to imply that anybody in Zambia who wants to set up a new province can do so. The Constitution does not, however, provide for setting up of a new province as the prerogative of every citizen. It is the prerogative of the President.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I was there when the President said that yesterday. After he had said that, he asked whether it was not ironical, in my interpretation, that there is a big noise being made about districts being moved around at the same time as there are demands for a whole extra province to be created.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Therefore, I think the President’s position, although partly humorous, is also quite justified.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) radio and television, there is a popular programme called, “News from Inside Parliament”. My observation, from the time I came to Parliament and prior to that, is that this programme normally comes after 2200 hours on the ZNBC television, and after 2030 hours “News Brief” on the ZNBC Radio. At these times, most of our people are already in deep sleep. My question to the Government is: Is the Government considering bringing this important programme earlier, probably at 1920 hours or 2030 hours repectively, long before people go to bed?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think there is some time warp there. Under the current dispensation, the ZNBC’s programming is not undertaken by the permanent secretary or the hon. Minister responsible for information. It is done by the editorial and management staff of the media house concerned.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, last week, you stated in this House that creating a ministry of gender would downgrade the division. May I find out from you, Mr Vice-President, now that it is a ministry, …


Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Muntanga: … whether it is a downgraded ministry. May I also find out the reason your Women National Chairperson has been demoted to Minister of a downgraded ministry, where even a Deputy Minister has been removed, indicating that she does not need a Deputy Minister. Should we laugh about it since you are saying that whatever the President decides, we should just laugh about it.


Mr Muntanga: Could you, please, clarify.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have here the verbatim transcript of the questions from the Opposition and everybody else at the time we debated that question about turning the Gender in Development Division into a ministry. You have to, please, accept the realities. I cannot, on behalf of the President, undertake to do what you are obviously demanding. I cannot commit him and so, I defended the Government’s position then. He was listening and decided that you were right. Therefore, what are you complaining about?

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Hon. Member: Boma!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, before I ask my question, I also would like to accept the advice of His Honour the Vice-President that we should not take whatever the President says seriously.


Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President the issue of the gift of buses, limousines and cars from our all-weather friends, the Chinese, taking into account that the relationship between the Chinese Government and the Patriotic Front (PF) Party was not cordial at the time of the General Elections campaigns.


Mr Mwiimbu: The question that begs an answer is: Is this testimony of the realisation by the PF Government that the Chinese Government is a very influential donor, that it has always been assisting this country and that the gifts they have received from the Chinese Government will not influence any of their decisions on Chinese investors in this country?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, during the 2008 and 2011 General Elections campaigns, our complaints against some Chinese investors were very specific. 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: They did not relate to the fact that they were Chinese or …

Hon. Government Member: No!

The Vice-President: … that they happen to be of a different race or civilisation from ours. They related specifically to the treatment of workers and safety procedures, among others.


The Vice-President: We made it very clear, and I remember the President and I explaining this issue. The President said that we want the Chinese, who are operating in Zambia, to comply with the laws of the land on safety and workers’ conditions of service. Now that we are in the Government, the Chinese and us recognise that we are in the same boat or that we have a common cause. Things are going very well.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, in the first place, I wish a happy belated Women’s Day to all hon. Members of Parliament and Zambian women. Can His Honour the Vice-President confirm that the Republican President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, is a man of action? Last Thursday, when this question of creating a ministry of gender was posed on the Floor, two hon. Female Deputy Ministers were totally opposed to establishing the Gender in Development Division into a ministry. However, it came as a surprise yesterday when the President made my life easy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Boma!


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for the comment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President, I am afraid you were drowned in the interruptions and so we did not hear your response.

The Vice-President: The hon. Member did not seem to be asking a question other than making a comment. I, therefore, just thanked her wholeheartedly for her comment.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, firstly, I wish to congratulate His Excellency the President on having a listening ear. He listened to the Opposition’s demand for the creation of a Ministry of Gender.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Hon. Members of Parliament represent the people, and yet the Executive defended a defective position. Could His Honour the Vice-President, please, explain whether relocation of districts is synonymous with decentralisation.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I believe it is not synonymous with decentralisation. In fact, from all I have heard, and I am a listening Vice-President, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … nobody has defended the relocation of districts on the basis that it is decentralisation. I have heard people defend it purely and simply on the grounds that it is administratively cheaper and more convenient if communications are faster. That is all, Sir.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how much has been budgeted for this important programme of moving the African Cup of Nations (AFCON) Trophy from province to province.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I can only reiterate what I have said before regarding questions relating to figures or requiring specific technical answers. It would be very helpful if I could have them whispered to me or sent to me on a note before this thirty minutes Question Time. That way, I can provide an accurate answer. If I provided an answer now, it would be pure guess work.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government started off on a very good note vis-á-vis employing civil servants as District Commissioners (DCs). At the moment, it has gone off track and appointed cadres to this position. Some of those appointed have very humble education and no experience at all in administration, let alone office cleaning, but they have been given positions in this high office. Is it the Government’s position to spend public money on officers who are busy politicking rather than attending to the functions of this high office?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, in this country, primary education was difficult to access. Secondary education was even more difficult to access and tertiary education was a luxury for a long time. Therefore, it always shocks me that hon. Members or hon. Educated People or self-styled educated people can stand up and make derogatory remarks about people who are not educated. I think it is very distasteful.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Firstly, we need to know the definition of cadre. This is a misuse of an English word that means a group of people and not an individual. It is cadres who have put me here and put the hon. Questioner where he is sitting. Many of them have worked extremely hard and competently with a great ability for organisation. It is just unfortunate that we have more cadres than the Opposition.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I would say that we are trying our best to put people who are serious-minded and understand the Government’s policies in positions such as that of DC.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Zimba.

Mr Zimba (Kapiri-Mposhi): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by the question by my colleague.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, we have heard so many pronouncements from the Government about decentralisation, which I do appreciate. What form of decentralisation is the PF Government implementing? Is it devolution, de-concentration or delegation?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would advise the hon. member to obtain a copy of the PF Manifesto which gives details of decentralisation. Going into an academic discussion of the differences between the three types of decentralisation that he has spelled out would take up the remaining twelve minutes and three seconds.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President about the State-controlled media houses. Sometime back, when Hon. Given Lubinda was Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Tourism, he defended the appointment of Mr Joe Chilaizya to the position of Director-General of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). Within a short time, the man has been removed from office when we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. What has happened? Can the security of tenure of his other colleagues and the one who has assumed that office be guaranteed.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am in a slight fix because I would like to answer the question but, at the same time, I do not want to discuss the careers and events that relate to individuals who are not hon. Members of the House and are in no position to comment. However, I will just quickly say that the individual in question has been reappointed elsewhere. He has been moved and not dismissed.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, the value of the kwacha has become a problem in my constituency.

Hon. PF Members interjected.

Mr Simbao: There are people who are running small shops who get items from Nakonde where the exchange rate actually entails what is going to happen next. At the moment, the value of the kwacha has made the cost of items so expensive that it is becoming difficult to have a bar of soap, cooking oil and match boxes in people’s homes. I would like to know what the Government is going to do to ensure that people continue bathing and brushing their teeth.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am surprised about that question because the exchange rate has not even shifted by 10 per cent, as far as I can estimate. It has gone from about K4,860 to about K5,200. If that is the margin in which the consumers of bars of soap in Mbala and Senga Hill take their bath, then we have a serious problem of poverty. 

There are many facets to this devaluation. Part of it is the fact that the United States (US) Dollar has grown stronger as the Euro has grown weaker. As a result of our insistence on specifying our exchange rate in terms of the US Dollar, and not as we used to in terms of the special drawing rights or another basket of currencies, which is more stable and represents what the rest of the world is really charging us, it looks worse than it is. We are fully expecting that, with the continued buoyance of the copper market, the currency will stabilise.

Mr Speaker, I would say that there are some traders who also export from Nakonde. They take beans and other produce from Nakonde and export them to Tanzania. They buy two bars of soap for every one they used to buy before.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, the House unanimously agreed on the need to have a broad-based strategy for equity sharing of resources in Zambia. Is giving the same amount of Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to rural and urban constituencies equity sharing?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is a lot to be said on both sides, but one of the difficulties is the definition of what a rural and an urban constituency is. I am not disputing that mine is urban because it is located in the centre of Lusaka. Is a constituency such as Kafue an urban or rural constituency? It is very difficult to say. Likewise, Chilanga is difficult to define in those terms. Many of these constituencies are hard to classify.

I think we have an approximation, at the moment, which is the simplest sharing formula where every constituency gets the same amount. Some people might be squeezed harder than others because of transport costs, among other factors. However, if the hon. Member sent me or the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning a detailed proposal, I am sure, it will be considered. I thank you in anticipation for the hard work.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, in this year’s Yellow Book, there is a K35 billion allocation under Works and Supply meant for motor vehicles, which can be termed as luxurious, for hon. Ministers. This is contrary to your philosophy of your Government being pro-poor. Taking into account the fact that the people of Milenge, a district without electricity, are still wallowing in poverty and in line with your philosophy of walking the talk, is it not your intention to take a mbicana from that K35 billion?


Mr Speaker: The hon. Member may, please, use official language.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, can this Government not take a small amount from that K35 billion to give the people of Milenge for electricity or does it not have any regard for them?

The Vice-President: The other day, someone from the Opposition said that we must stop learning from our predecessors. Unfortunately, here, there is no alternative. The many ministerial vehicles were taken with them or sold to the incumbent by our predecessors, whom you should be asking because they are seated near you.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr P. Ngoma (Feira): Mr Speaker, it has become normal for the PF Government to appoint into Foreign Service, as a form of consolation, anyone who does not seem to perform to their expectations. Does this Government not realise that missions will be serviced by people who cannot perform as most of them will not be career diplomats?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are just following established practice. As far as I am aware, I do not know that there is any change in the way we do things.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, in the recent past, a number of banks have opened in the country thereby creating more jobs. This translates into the economy doing fine. What was the rationale behind increasing the capital base requirements for commercial banks, considering that this will deter the would-be investors in the banking sector?

The Vice-President: The motivation is to ensure that there is more money for lending and also that banks are making money out of lending money and not just making money out of handling other people’s money. It is a slightly complicated economic story. Basically, we are trying to bring down interest rates and increase the volume of lending to Zambian investors. We will soon find out, in retrospect, that the banks that are not prepared to do that were not serious in the first place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I would like to get a comment from His Honour the Vice-President on election petitions. We have had a number of judgments related to election petitions. What is his comment on the culture of governance by the PF with special reference to the rule of law and specifically the independence of the Judiciary?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we believe in the independence of the Judiciary. I do not wish to say anything about the actual cases because this might be judged as contemptuous of the court with regard to the cases that are still to be decided. Therefore, that is it. I am afraid, this is not a very enlightened comment. Nevertheless, thank you for the question. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the MMD had twenty-one ministries …

Hon. PF Members: Twenty-five!

Mr Speaker: Let the hon. Member ask the question.

Mr Mutelo: … which were reduced to nineteen in the name of cost saving. Do the current happenings still relate to this cost saving?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am completely bamboozled because I have not understood the question.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that the people who were removed from Sichifulo are now going back, but are asked to pay a sum of money? Is it your way of governing to have people who were removed from a piece of land pay money for them to go back to it?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, without specific details, again, I cannot really comment on that question. If the hon. Member had been specific with his question, I would have answered very correctly because I am also concerned about this issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!




178. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

    (a)    how much money was spent on the construction of the following border posts:

(i)    Kipushi in North-Western Province; and

(ii)    Nakonde in Northern Province;

(b)    how many border posts were budgeted for construction in 2009; and

(c)    how many have since been completed and, what their names were.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that a total of K800 million was spent on the construction of Kipushi Border Post in the North-Western Province. 

The Ministry of Home Affairs is not constructing a border post in Nakonde. The ministry is, however, carrying out rehabilitation works on twenty-three staff houses at Nakonde Border Post at a cost of K257,764,592.

However, a one stop border post is being constructed in Nakonde under the auspices of the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. It is funded by the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA). The Ministry of Home Affairs will benefit in that the immigration officers will be housed at that post.

The ministry had seven border posts budgeted for construction in 2009, namely Kamapanda and Kambimba in the North-Western, Kilwa in Luapula, Namufula in the Southern, Sindamisale in the Eastern, Kanyala in the Northern and Imusho in the Western provinces. Four border posts have since been completed, namely Namufulo in the Southern Province, Imusho in the Western Province, Kilwa in Luapula Province and Sindamisale in the Eastern Province.

The other three, namely Kamapanda and Kambimba in the North-Western Province and Kanyala in the Northern Province will be completed this year. This has been budgeted for and is indicated on page 6 in the Yellow Book.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, according to the statistics on the ground, Zambian borders are very porous. To prevent the influx of illegal immigrants into this country, is the Government considering constructing border posts at Mpweto, Matanda, Lambwe Chomba in Luapula Province as well as Kaputa and Nsumbu at Chibanga in the Northern Province?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, when we see that the movement of people across our borders increases, we construct border posts to keep track of it. If you check on page 6 of the Yellow Book, Nsumbu Border Post has been budgeted for. The other places that Hon. Chisala has mentioned will be considered, depending on how strategic they are.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government …

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member on the Floor for interrupting his question. However, I rise on a serious point of order on the Government and the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, in particular. Is this hon. Minister, who is intimately speaking with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, in order …


Mrs Masebo: … not to come to this House to inform the country that there is an outbreak of a serious disease in Chongwe District? 

Hon. Members: Jealous!


Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, on 3rd February, 2012, Chongwe District had an outbreak of a disease called Bovine Lapis, a skin disease in cattle. This has been confirmed in the Chalimbana, Lwimba, Chinkuli, Chinyunyu, Kanakantapa and Nangwenya areas. 

Mr Speaker, I am informed that this disease is highly contagious and is characterised by fever, lumps and generalised lymphaditis. I am also informed that secondary infection often aggravates the condition. However, the disease is treatable and can be prevented using vaccines.

Mr Speaker, I am informed that 22,000 cattle in Chongwe District are at risk and that 75 per cent of this figure have been affected by the disease. Is the hon. Minister, therefore, in order not to come to this House and inform the public so that people can take the necessary steps? Is he also in order not to quickly respond to help the district curb this disease before all the cattle are decimated?

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock should come up with a ministerial statement in the course of next week.

Hon. Member: Intimate.


Ms Kalima: Go back to your seat.

Mr Chenda took his seat.


Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, has the Government any plans to computerise all border posts in the country?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, that is a brilliant question and the answer is yes. We are considering computerising all border posts. Already, we have computerised the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport, Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe and Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula International airports.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, it was said in this House that K100 million has been set aside for Washishi Border Post. I would like to know when this money will be released and the project commenced.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, that is a new question. We need to get the details thereon from the officers at the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Taima (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has stated that about K800 million has, so far, been spent on the construction of Kipushi Border Post, which is in my constituency. May the hon. Minister tell us when the works on this project will be completed. May he also enlighten me on the plans, if any, to ensure that this facility is not allowed to become a white elephant because the only road that goes through it is impassable at the moment.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, regarding the stage at which the construction has reached, we need to get the particulars. You caught me off-guard and I will need to come back to you. As regards whether the border post will become a white elephant, it remains to be seen. However, there were some consultations that took place and we found that there was a need for this border post because the number of people passing through it is growing.


179. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Health why the Government had been failing to provide adequate food to patients in public hospitals.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, the House might wish to know that the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has recognised the need to provide adequate food to patients in public hospitals. However, due to financial constraints, resulting from the existence of other pressing needs in various sectors, the fund that the Government provided, in the past, for the purchase of foodstuffs for patients was, sometimes, not adequate for them to have three meals a day in all the public health facilities countrywide. The House might also wish to note that most of our health facilities offer three meals a day to in-patients. It has been noted, however, that some institutions, mainly, first-level district hospitals are offering two meals a day. The Government, through the Ministry of Health, having noted the need for improved feeding of patients, has provided, in the 2012 Ministry of Health Budget, K8.2 billion for second and third-level hospitals in the country. This money is to be used to procure commodities and health services for in-patients, including laundry services and food.

In addition to this allocation, the Government has provided a further K47.2 billion in the 2012 Ministry of Health Budget which is to be used to procure services, inclusive of food, for in-patients in first level district hospitals countrywide. 

Mr Speaker, the Government has put these interventions in place in order to improve the feeding of patients in public health facilities countrywide.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, if I heard that hon. Minister correctly, in his answer, …

Mr Muntanga: The hon.  PF Minister.

Mr Ntundu: The PF Minister, yes, because some are hon. MMD Ministers.


Mr Ntundu (pointing at the hon. Minister) In his answer, he has stated that, due to financial constraints, the ministry is not able to feed patients three times a day. Why, then, in its campaign promises, did his party …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Please, check your finger.


Mr Mwiimbu: I will hold his hand.


Mr Ntundu: Sir, his party, the PF, made a number of promises to Zambians, including the provision of food for patients in hospitals. Why then is the PF Government somersaulting from the promises it made to the people of Zambia during the campaign? I would like him to give a convincing answer to this House.


The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Professor Luo): Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member of Parliament listened to the answer carefully, he would have heard that the hon. Minister mentioned the word ‘previously’, that is, up to the 2011 Budget. The money that was given to hospitals was inadequate. He clearly stated that, in the 2012 Budget, K8.2 billion has been provided for hospitals, specifically for the feeding of patients. The PF Government is only responsible for the 2012 Budget. 

Mr Speaker, let me also add that, if all of us have been paying attention to the goings on in our hospitals, we will testify that it is relatives who are on the bedside of patients, nursing the patients. When the food is served to the patients, many times, those relatives also partake of the food. However, when you budget, you look at the number of patients that come to the hospital and do a unit cost per patient and multiply by the cost of food. We do not provide for relatives. To this effect, the Ministry of Health has been trying to implement a policy that stops relatives from nursing patients for many reasons. Among them is the spread of diseases, especially infectious diseases, from the hospitals to the community and from the community to the patients, especially to patients whose immunity is compromised. This is a big issue.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health, under the PF Administration, will change the status quo and ensure that nutrition is at the centre in the management of in-patients.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, during a recent tour of my constituency, I visited Senama Clinic and discovered that patients were bringing their own food because it was not provided. Can the hon. Minister substantiate the answer that has been given to this House that everyday, two meals are given to patients. Is it only in some hospitals or all of them?

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, this country has more health facilities to support than Senama Clinic alone. In the answer that we gave, we said this was policy in our hospitals. Therefore, if there is one clinic where this is not being done, it still does not negate the fact that the Ministry of Health is providing food to these institutions, through its budgetary allocation. 

Sir, I also wish to add that some of the patients require particular dietary provisions and may not want to eat what has been provided by the hospital. This is because when you are sick, you also become a bit choosy and ask for specific things. In that respect, the ministry will not be able to look at specific requirements and, usually, the relatives of the patient attend to such needs.

Mr Speaker, as I said earlier, we will be looking into all these issues slowly. I also would like to state to our colleagues that they should start differentiating between what happened in the country before 20th September, 2011, and what we are trying to put in place after this date. Therefore, give us an opportunity to streamline the operations in the hospitals.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I am delighted that the hon. Minister has ably answered the question. However, I have a question for him.

Hon. MMD Members: Her!

Mr Chisala: Sir, following the answer you have given that K8.2 billion has been allocated to feeding and other purposes, I would like to know whether you are considering increasing the allocation on an annual basis.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, yesterday, we commemorated the International Women’s Day and, this morning, I am wearing a dress, not trousers, to show that I am really a woman.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: Therefore, can the hon. Member of Parliament be careful with his language next time and call me ‘madam’ and not ‘sir’.


Professor Luo: In response to the question, I would like to state that, in fact, what is good is that this House approves the Budget. Even as we bring the budgets here, if the hon. Members would like an increment so that they see proper care in their health institutions, we will be glad to triple or quadruple the budget so that our institutions can work well. In this regard, I give the challenge to ensure that the 2013 Budget is adequate to the hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government was trying to implement a policy to prevent relatives from nursing patients in hospitals. Is she aware that, in fact, the medical staff are the ones who encourage relatives to sleep by the patients’ bedside? I had that experience this week at Levy Mwanawasa Hospital. She can go and check this in the female surgical ward. I have a patient there and was accosted by the nursing staff to provide bedside care. 

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the professional staff in our institutions are guided by the policies of their respective institutions. As I said earlier, it is the desire of the Ministry of Health to have its members of staff operate according to its policies. As you know, the implementation of certain policies takes some time. We have set ourselves to start implementing this policy. We will expect our members of staff to comply with the policy once it is put in place.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that, in future, she would like to see that relatives who provide bedside care to in-patients are not permitted to do so. I would like to imagine that one of the reasons relatives go to the bedside of patients is the shortage of nursing staff. According to its projections, when does the Government intend to fill up all the positions in the various establishments so that relatives can stop interfering with the work of the nursing staff as they carry out their duties? The current state of affairs has caused people to eat food that is meant for patients.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I will take that question to our Modeling Unit so that it can make the projections which have been asked for by the hon. Member. I hope the hon. Member of Parliament will put this question in writing so that we can give him the projections. Projections cannot just be given off-the cuff on the Floor of this House. There is a certain formula that you use to fill in the figures, model and then make the projections.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, as a rider to the question that was raised by the hon. Member for Luena, I would like to find out if the hon. Minister is aware that at hospitals, such as the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), at night, one nurse caters for more than 100 patients. Most of the times, the nurses say that if relatives are not available, there will be no nursing care given to patients. Is she not aware of that situation?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I am aware of such occurrences. The hon. Member of Parliament may wish to know that I was a member of staff at the institution which he has referred to. As I said earlier, the Ministry of Health is looking at ways of how to best manage the problems in our health institutions, including the human resource one. The hon. Member may wish to know that the task to take care of patients continuously is not actually the function of the nurse. This task calls for a different cadre of staff. I requested that, as we are re-examining the activities in our health institutions, after taking over the Government from our colleagues, who allowed patients to be taken care of by relatives, we put in place a structure that will ensure that the different roles of caring, nursing and treating of patients are taken care of.  There will be a clear distinction between the work of doctors, nurses and caregivers. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


180. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    when more nurses would be sent to Nangoma Mission Hospital in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b)    when the Government would provide adequate blankets to Nangoma and other hospitals, countrywide.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the country continues to face critical shortages of professional health workers in particular, general and medical doctors, and nurses due to a number of reasons. Among them are low output from training institutions and construction of new health facilities across the country, hence the increasing the demand for health workers for both existing and new health facilities.

However, the ministry will recruit health workers sometime in April/May, 2012, based on the K77.8 billion allocated for the net recruitment of health workers in the 2012 National Budget. Ministry of Health workers will be deployed to both existing and new facilities. The Nangoma Mission Hospital is expected to be catered for in that exercise.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has recognised the need to provide adequate blankets to hospitals countrywide. In the 2012 Ministry of Health Budget, a total amount of K5.7 billion has been allocated to the procurement of blankets, bed sheets and pillows for health facilities countrywide. The procurement will be done in two phases with the first phase commencing in March this year. Nangoma Mission Hospital will benefit from this Government intervention.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that there are no beddings at the UTH Filter Clinic?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the UTH is not the only institution with the problem of a lack of beddings. This is a countrywide problem. This is why, in the budget, there is a provision to purchase more blankets, not only for the UTH or Nangoma Mission Hospital, but also for many other health institutions in the country. 

Sir, the ministry will also put in place measures to ensure the safety of the beddings. I think many hon. Members of Parliament may be aware that year in and year out, we are busy buying the same products. In addition to buying these items, we should also ensure that they are safely kept so that we can also spend money on other issues in future. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that money has been allocated to purchase blankets and that this exercise will be undertaken in two phases. I would like to know which provinces or hospitals will be catered for in the first phase. I would also like to know if the Western Province will be included in the first phase.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the list is not yet ready. The distribution of blankets will be based on need. As leaders, if we start focusing on provinces, we will miss the point. We need to look at the inventory that the hospitals will send and priority will be given, depending on where there is most need. 

I thank you, Sir.     

 Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, Chiparamba Clinic in my constituency has not received blankets for over five years. Can the hon. Minister state how often blankets are procured for the country and how often they are distributed. 

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the question is about hospitals. Therefore, I am not able to provide the figures for clinics that the hon. Member is asking for. The hon. Member may wish to officially table her question as a new one so that an answer is provided in due course.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about the safety of the blankets and other materials to be delivered to all hospitals, including Gwembe District Hospital, where patients use their own blankets. Will these materials be branded? For instance, you could brand the blankets being delivered to a hospital with the name of the hospital. For instance those to be delivered to Gwembe District Hospital could be branded ‘Gwembe District Hospital’. 

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, safety involves quite a number of measures. Branding is just one of them. When our technical people design the different methodologies that we shall use in ensuring safety, we may choose to share them with the hon. Member of Parliament. If we sit and just talk about branding, it will not help. You have probably seen people walk out of hospitals, carrying something that looks like a baby on their back when, in the actual fact, it is probably a blanket.


Professor Luo: Therefore, even if we brand the blankets, if they are taken out of the hospital on somebody’s back, we will not see them again.


Professor Luo: Unless we start what was called ichipekeni (inspection) in the colonial days, whereby people go from house-to-house, taking an inventory of items, we may not succeed in our quest to secure the items found in our health institutions. Branding should just be one of the components of the safety package. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

181. Mr Sililo (Mulobezi) asked the Vice-President:

(a)    whether the Government had released any money to Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency for purposes of holding celebrations for the following:

(i)    Farmers’ Day;
(ii)    Youth Day;
(iii)    Labour Day; and 
(iv)    Women’s Day; and

(b)    if so, how much money was released in 2011 for the purpose at (a) and which authority, at constituency level, was responsible for accounting for the funds.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, the Government did neither budget nor release any money to Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency for the purposes of holding celebrations for Farmers’ Day; Youth Day; Labour Day; and Women’s Day. 

Mr Speaker, no money was released, hence, no authority at constituency level was responsible for accounting for the funds. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sililo: Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that the people who are being sidelined are the ones who voted them into power? 

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I do not know where the allegation of sidelining is coming from. As far as I am aware, it has never been a Government policy or procedure to budget for public holidays on a constituency by constituency basis. However, we must be aware that the situation is different when we come to districts. Further, we all need to realise that our pockets are not nearly as copious as we thought and hoped. 

When one of these holidays comes up, as hon. Members of Parliament, we are obliged to find money to help our youths, women or ordinary members to participate in these celebrations. This is the situation. If the hon. Member is saying that we change the system and find public money for such celebrations on a constituency by constituency basis, then we should look at what he has said from the angle of it being a suggestion. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 


182. Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when rehabilitation works on the road connecting Western and North-Western Provinces from Lukulu/Watopa to Zambezi via the Mpidi/Chitokoloki Road would commence; and 

(b)    whether the road above would be tarred. 

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by making an observation. The House may wish to appreciate that this is the third time we are discussing this question. Just last Tuesday, we answered this question. The only difference is that on Tuesday, the word used was ‘maintenance’ and not ‘rehabilitation’. The answer which we shall give today is the same as the one we gave on Tuesday. 

The Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has set aside K5.2 billion in this year’s budget for feasibility studies and detailed designs. This amount will also cater for the exercise to come up with tender documents for the Kaoma/Mumbezhi Road, joining the Kabompo/Chavuma Road. Further, it will include an assessment of works required on the Lukulu/Watopa Road. The Watopa/Mpidi Road is an earth road which connects to RD 298 at Mpidi, which is also an earth road. 

The RD 298 connects to D 298 at Chitokoloki on the Zambezi Chitokoloki Road, which is currently being worked on by the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) up to Chitokoloki, for 45 kilometres, leaving 49 kilometres of the RD 298 to connect to Mpidi Road which is R174. The works by the RRU involve re-gravelling, drainage structures construction and bush clearing at a total cost of K2 billion. A total of 9 kilometres has been worked on so far.

Sir, as regards the second part of the question, Mr Speaker, there is a feasibility study planned for the section from Kaoma via Watopa to Lukulu onto Mwembezhi that will commence this year. The section from Watopa via Mpidi/Chitokoloki to Zambezi has not been included in this year’s budget due to funding constraints.

As mentioned above, in the meantime, the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) is working on this section to provide the accessibility required. Ideally, and we agree with the hon. Member of Parliament for emphasising this point, the overall plan is to include this section among those to be upgraded to bituminous standards.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, let me first correct the hon. Deputy Minister that the question I asked last week, that is Question 168, was on the feeder road which is very distantly related to the connection between the Western and North-Western provinces. May I learn from the hon. Deputy Minister when this will be worked on because this was a pronouncement by the His Excellency the President during the Official Opening of the Eleventh National Assembly. He said that the North-Western and Western provinces would be connected and that the road would be worked on. We have, however, not heard of a feasibility study. I would like to find out if at all the PF Government cannot adhere to pronouncements made by the Republican President.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the PF Administration is committed to connecting the Western and North-Western provinces. The road link from Kaoma via Watopa to Mwembezhi is part of that connectivity. Like I said earlier, we totally agree that it makes sense for us to provide a comprehensive road network between the two provinces. However, this year, we have to plan before we construct the road so that we look at the options that can be taken. We also have to conduct the feasibility studies. At least, we have funding for the road up to Mwembezhi.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for this opportunity to raise this supplementary question on matters relating to this very important road to us, the inhabitants of the Western Province.

At the close of the last Session, specifically on a Friday, I raised this question to His Honour the Vice-President who indicated that a sum of K5 billion had been provided for a feasibility study detail design and that consequently, a tender probably by September would be awarded. It is now three months into the year and no feasibility study has been commenced. When will the feasibility study be started? 

Secondly, we also brought it to the attention of His Honour the Vice-President that, currently, as you have rightly said that this is an earth road, the road is in a very bad state of disrepair. This is more so owing to the heavy rains that have been ravaging these parts of the country. His Honour the Vice-President indicated that emergency repair works would be carried out, but nothing of that sort has been done. Why is the ministry disregarding His Honour the Vice-President’s directive?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we would in no way disregard His Honour the Vice-President’s directive. However, we are saying that feasibility studies will definitely be conducted this year. Besides, the procurement process is underway. As soon as the consultants are sourced for the specific roads, that information will be published and everybody will be informed. I wish to confirm to this House that the procurement process is underway.

Sir, with regard to the earth road, generally, throughout the country, now that the rains are about to come to an end, we are making assessments of most of these roads. We are compiling data and as soon as the weather allows, the necessary remedial, hoarding maintenance works will commence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, this road is in bad shape. In the first place, I do not know whether the hon. Deputy Minister has taken a trip to make an on-the-spot check of what is being said here. The question asked by Hon. Sayifwanda is also giving the option of the Katunda/Mpidi/Chitokoloki/Zambezi route being the shortest. Is the hon. Minister going to consider all that before giving answers? Could construction of this road be treated as a matter of urgency.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the Watopa Road via Mpidi/Chitokoloki to Zambezi is a shorter route for traffic from Lukulu to Zambezi and we appreciate that. As earlier mentioned, ideally, we would like to provide that alternative for traffic heading to Kabompo via Mwembezhi and traffic going to Zambezi can go via Chitokoloki. You should also appreciate that the only constraint we had this year, was the budget. However, the need to provide that alternative route is well appreciated by the ministry and our agencies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister simply define the word ‘earth’ so that everyone understands?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, when we use the word ‘earth’, we exclude the application of gravel. Gravel includes ingredients of stone-like substances. An earth road is one that does not have the gravel level.

I thank you, Sir.




Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of your Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential appointments of Pastor Godfrida Sumaili and Dr Steven C. Moyo to serve as Commissioners of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC).

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its mandate, your Committee engaged several institutions which included all the security wings and relevant civil society organisations that which assisted in providing information required by your Committee to scrutinise the suitability of the nominees to ascend to the Office of Commissioners of the ACC. Your Committee also had occasion to interact with the appointing authority.

Sir, the security wings of the Government, that appeared before the Committee, namely the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), Zambia Police Force and, indeed, the ACC confirmed that their respective security vetting revealed that the nominees were free of any criminal activities nor had they been convicted of any offences under the various laws administered by any of the wings.

Sir, in addition, you will be interested to note that all the other witnesses, who appeared before your Committee, were generally unanimous in supporting the appointments of the nominees except one witness who brought an allegation against Dr Moyo, which your Committee dealt with conclusively and confirmed that it was unfounded.

In this vein, I wish to urge and appeal to all witnesses or stakeholders that usually have an input whenever a task such as this arises that, while their submissions are highly valued, they should always bear in mind that their comments affect the reputations of nominees. Therefore, they should endeavour to submit well-founded or researched memoranda instead of making mere allegations, thereby overburdening the Committee with the task of carrying out investigations to prove or disapprove the allegations. 

Mr Speaker, the House will be interested to note that Pastor Sumaili has previously served as a commissioner on the Human Rights Commission (HRC) and was instrumental in improving the HRC’s work in the area of children’s rights. In addition, Pastor Sumaili is currently a pastor in the Bread of Life Church as well as executive director of a non-governmental organisation (NGO) called Jesus Cares Ministries, an organisation which focuses on children’s rights.

Sir, given the nominee’s background, it is doubtless that she is a person of integrity and has a good understanding of how the Government operates and the importance of specialised units, such as the ACC where she will bring her experience from the HRC.

As regards Dr Moyo, the House will be interested to note that he has been an anti-corruption advocate in this country from as far back as 1997. He is among the founding members of the first Transparency International Zambia (TIZ) Chapter and is currently the secretary-general of the Integrity Foundation. He is also deputy chief of party and anti-corruption focal point person of the Zambia Institutional Reform Programme whose mandate is to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of Public Service delivery.

The nominee is also a trainer and consultant in ethics and anti-corruption and has, in this regard, trained various civil society organisations, officers of the ACC and African Parliamentary Network Against Corruption (APNAC), which has resulted in development of their codes of ethics.

Mr Speaker, it is your Committee’s considered view that the nominees have adequate experience, not only based on their rich curriculum vita, but from their actual involvement directly or indirectly on matters of the anti-corruption fight and matters incidental thereto. Your Committee, therefore, urges this august House to unreservedly ratify the Presidential appointments of the two nominees.

Mr Speaker, your Committee wishes to take this opportunity to recommend to the appointing authority that appointments be generally cast wide so as to encompass other qualified and experienced Zambians who have never served in public office. Further, your Committee urges the Government that prior to nominees being presented to Parliament for ratification, a thorough scrutiny in terms of qualifications vis-à-vis the law under which nominees are appointed, should be undertaken by the Ministry of Justice. Your Committee, however, commends the Government on the gender balancing exhibited in these particular appointments.

In conclusion, I wish to express your Committee’s gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to serve on this important Select Committee. I also wish to thank all the witnesses that appeared before your Committee and provided both written and oral submissions, which assisted the Committee to effectively discharge its duties. Lastly but not the least, gratitude also goes to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later.

Mr Kalaba: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I wish to second the Motion which has been ably moved by the Chairperson of the Committee. The appointment of Pastor Godfrida Sumaili and Dr Steven Moyo are made pursuant to the provisions of paragraph 2 (3) of the schedule of the Anti-Corruption Act No. 38 of 2010, which states that:

“A commissioner shall be appointed by the President, subject to ratification by the National Assembly.”

Sir, in scrutinising the suitability of the two nominees, your Committee ensured that no stone was left unturned. All kinds of allegations that were brought before your Committee against the nominees were dealt with diligently and conclusively so that all individuals whose characters are above board can serve as commissioners of the ACC.

Mr Speaker, as the House is aware, the ACC is a very important governance institution in the country in so far as curbing corruption is concerned. Therefore, people who aspire to serve the commission must be of high integrity. Cognisant of this fact, your Committee is not hesitant to recommend Pastor Sumaili and Dr Moyo for ratification. Your Committee urges this House to ratify the two nominees on the basis that your Committee did a thorough job.

Mr Speaker, with these very few words, I second the Motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to contribute to the debate on this very important Motion.

Mr Speaker, I would like to sincerely thank your Committee for the good job it did. I would also like to echo the Chairperson of your Committee’s words that the witnesses you request to come and help your Select Committees should make sure they adhere to the provisions of the Powers and Privileges Act in making their submissions so that they do not make the work of your Committees difficult.

Mr Speaker, the ACC is a very important institution in the sense that we cannot have our institutions running without moral benchmarks, like the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning stated the other day. Therefore, this commission is a very critical one and I am very pleased that the two nominees are eminent persons with very good credentials. The fact that the two nominees are female and there is only one male is very good as we strive to ensure gender balance in these institutions.

I would like to urge the new commissioners to also embark on capacity building the officers serving at the commission. I think Hon. Siliya will remember that, two years ago, we attended a graduation ceremony somewhere in the Netherlands where four of our women graduated from various studies and there was only one gentleman amongst that group. This gentleman came from the ACC and he explained that it was really difficult for him to get a scholarship to further his education. Therefore, I would like to urge the in-coming commissioners to ensure that they strengthen this institution through capacity building in the officers who work there.

I would also like to see the commissioners embark on the sensitisation of people serving in the Public Service as well as the general public so that we change the culture that has developed in this nation of glorifying wrongdoers and people who are at the centre of this cancer of corruption. It is very important that people start realising that if, for instance, the hon. Member of Parliament from Shiwang’andu is found wanting, he does not get a whole entourage of his supporters from Shiwang’andu to protect him. It is very important that people learn to understand the consequences of wrongdoing.

I have taken a keen interest in the submissions of one of the nominees, Dr Moyo, on page 9 paragraph 5. He was asked about what motivated him to venture into fighting corruption. The nominee responded that it was largely the reduction in values, such as integrity, that occurred after the change of Government in 1991. He further stated that while the rules and laws were being promulgated and institutions strengthened, instances of corruption were also on the rise.

Mr Speaker, I totally agree with this observation by the nominee. Indeed, we saw some change, but what was the reason for this? If we look back, the former Government of the United National Independence Party (UNIP), in which Hon. Alex Chikwanda served, set proper rules. There was a leadership code which provided for how people who decided to serve in public office were to conduct themselves. They knew, very well, that they had an enormous task of building this nation. They also knew that amongst themselves, others would be excited. Therefore, they found it important to set themselves rules to ensure that their integrity was safeguarded. 

Hon. Chikwanda and Hon. Size Zulu are here today as honourable men because they are products of that crop of leadership. That is what we expected. Unfortunately, there was a slight change when the next Government liberalised everything, including corruption. It is very important that we strengthen these institutions because they were established for a very good reason.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to urge the commissioners to ensure that they embark on the decentralisation of the operations of this commission. Corruption is everywhere. It goes up to our constituencies. Therefore, we would like to see the presence of this commission in the districts and up to the bottom so that it can be fought from both fronts.

In conclusion, I would also like to request the commissioners to ensure that they help the new Secretary to the Cabinet in ensuring that the public perception of the Civil Service changes and improves because it is there to serve the people and not its own interests.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 until 1100 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank all hon. Members of this House who have spoken in support of the Motion. I also wish to thank all the other hon. Members of the House who have supported this very important Motion without reservation.

I would also like to make one comment pertaining to the statement made by my colleague, Hon. Kampyongo, on the leadership code. I hope that our colleagues in the PF Government will not want to bring back the dreaded leadership code which impoverished most of our leaders in the UNIP Government. It will not be in the interest of all Zambians to do that.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.


The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1104 hours until Tuesday, 13th March, 2012.