Thursday, 21^st September, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM ST EDMUNDS SECONDARY SCHOOL IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils as well as teachers from St Edmunds Secondary School in Mazabuka, Southern Province.

The pupils and teachers rose.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

Thank you. You may resume your seats.

The pupils and teachers resumed their seats.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS M. NALUNANGO, ON THE DEATH OF A PETAUKE RESIDENT

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Petauke Central this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter is directed to Her Honour the Vice-President, our mother.

Good afternoon, Ma’am.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, in Petauke Central Constituency, at Kanjala Polling Station, we lost Mr John Pin Phiri around 2300 hours. He got sick, complaining of a headache, but I am sure that it was blood pressure (BP) –

Madam Speaker: Order!

I am sure that you know that that is a matter that does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. So, that matter is not admitted.

MR CHISOPA, HON. MEMBER FOR MKUSHI SOUTH, ON MR KAPALA, HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON MIDDLEMEN ACCESSING FUEL FROM THE PIPELINE

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chisopa: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for allowing the good people of Mkushi South to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, I note that the cost of fuel has continued going up. One of the reasons –

Mr J. E. Banda interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member!

Sorry. My apologies.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, if you continue at that rate, you will find yourself outside. Please, control your emotions.

May the hon. Member for Mkushi South continue.

Mr Chisopa: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I note that the cost of fuel has continued going up. One of the reasons the Government put up a pipeline was to mitigate the rising cost of fuel. However, we have continued seeing companies being closed –

Madam Speaker: Order!

What is the matter of urgent public importance? Get to the point. Be precise.

Mr Chisopa: My matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker, is directed to the hon. Minister of Energy.

Why has the hon. Minister not come to this House to tell us the middlemen who are still getting fuel from the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline in Ndola and selling it to the oil marketing companies (OMCs), and whether OMCs have direct access to the oil from TAZAMA Pipeline. e pipeline to also collect fuel.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, you are advised to put in a question if you want that matter to be answered by the hon. Minister of Energy.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

LIONS TERRORISING CHIBALE CHIEFDOM

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Madam Speaker, I rise to deliver a ministerial statement on reports of stray lions reportedly terrorising the people of Chibale Chiefdom of Chama North Parliamentary Constituency in the Eastern Province. This is in response to the matter of urgent public importance raised by the hon. Member for Chama North Constituency. I am grateful for the opportunity to make clarifications on the issues raised and allay the fears of the people in the affected area.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to recall that on 21^st July, 2023, and prior to that, on 9^th June, 2023, I did present to this august House ministerial statements on the human-wildlife conflict situation in Zambia as a whole and the remedial measures being taken to mitigate the scourge. I did highlight to the House that human-wildlife conflicts had become a matter of concern and that they seemed to be on the increase in comparison to the situation in previous years.

Madam Speaker, I wish to reiterate that the increase in the human-wildlife conflicts that are currently being experienced could largely be attributed to the expansion of human settlements into protected areas through encroachment, blockage of wildlife corridors and introduction of livestock in game management areas (GMAs).

Madam Speaker, Chama Constituency lies in the Musalangu Game Management Area, which is an important wildlife migration route connecting the Vwaza Marsh National Park in Malawi and the North Luangwa National Park in Zambia. As the hon. Members of this august House may be aware, that area is an integral part of the Malawi-Zambia Transfrontier Conservation Area (TFCA).

Madam Speaker, the TFCAs are part of the Government’s efforts to promote tourism in the country and the region where the management of wildlife is done at a transboundary level in conjunction with neighbouring countries.

Madam Speaker, this House may wish to note that the increased interventions in law enforcement in the Zambia-Malawi TFCA has led to a steady increase of wildlife in Chama and surrounding areas since the inception of the TFCA in 2003.

Madam Speaker, I wish to confirm that the report of stray lions in Chibale Chiefdom was received by the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) in the Ministry of Tourism on 14^th September, 2023, in Chama from the area Member of Parliament, Hon. Yotam Mtayachalo. Even as the report was being made, the ministry had already initiated the process of deploying wildlife police officers from the Chama office to Chibale Chiefdom. In this regard, the Ministry of Tourism, through the DNPW, will continue to work with the community in Chibale. We urge the Chibale community, through the area hon. Member of Parliament, to support this operation whenever we reach out to them.

Madam Speaker, communities living near protected wildlife areas will always face the risk of exposure to conflict with wildlife, as alluded to in the previous ministerial statements concerning human-wildlife conflicts. However, our aim, as a ministry and as the Government, is to reduce the scale and frequency of occurrence of conflicts so as to safeguard the lives of people and property through takings of various prevention measures that include, but are not limited to the following:

1. why the development and implementation of General Management Plans (GMPs);

1. prevention trespassing and encroachment of protected areas;

1. restraining of animals from moving into certain areas to prevent conflicts, using a variety of methods such as chili blasting, watch towers, electric fences; and

1. enhancement of sensitisation of communities living around animal habitats on the threats posed by animals.

Madam Speaker, on their part, communities need to desist from encroaching on protected areas. This is because experience has demonstrated that an increase in illegal settlements in protected areas is the major contributor to human-wildlife conflicts.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to make an earnest appeal to my brother, the area hon. Member of Parliament, and all other hon. Members of Parliament with constituencies in GMAs, to support the efforts being made by the ministry, through the DNPW, by urging members of the public in the various constituencies to work hand-in-hand with my department to create a safer living environmentand facilitate peaceful co-existence. I also wish to assure the people of Chama North Constituency that the Government has committed itself to ensure the safety of its people. It is our hope that the area hon. Member of Parliament, in collaboration with the district administration, will lead the process of reconciling the community and officers from the DNPW to ensure that no lives or property are lost in Chibale due to human-wildlife conflicts.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, Kanchibiya Constituency is not immune from human-animal conflicts. In the early hours of Sunday, I got a message that one of our residents, a fifty-six-year-old woman, had been attacked by a buffalo outside the protected game areas. Going forward, what is the Government doing to provide for compensation for loss of life, loss of property or injuries outside game management areas (GMAs)?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am on record in this House saying that the Government, through the Ministry of Tourism, has an idea of how best we could console, rather than compensate the victims of human-wildlife conflict. Why I say ‘consolation’ is purely that we cannot compensate a life, but we can console those who are bereaved.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Tourism, under the DNPW, is in the process of reviewing the Zambia Wildlife Act. There will be a section of the Act that will include the aspect of consolation for those who are victims of human-wildlife conflict. Of course, there are other discussions that we are having with various communities on the types of consolation that we will be able to offer. We have seen that there are certain communities that may be found wanting in the sense of growing their crops in sensitive areas very close to national park or park boundaries. However, we are definitely looking at ways of providing consolation for victims.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I think, Mbabala is similar to other areas in that it is also prone to human-animal conflicts. Only the other year, elephants visited my home. Further, last year, we lost two people to attacks by elephants that had come from the Dundumwezi direction.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about biometric measures for tracking numbers of elephants, lions and the like. Does he know how many elephants and lions we have in each game management area (GMA) in order to manage their movement using biometric systems that could help trigger an alarm somewhere when the animals move to human areas.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, I am happy that this question has been asked. It is timely in the sense that the Ministry of Tourism through the DNPW, launched its first ever elephant census, which obviously looked at the Kavango–Zambezi Transfrontier Conservation Area (KAZA TFCA). May I take this opportunity to report to this august House that the KAZA TFCA today, has 50 per cent of the world’s elephant population. That is scientific. Indeed, we are working towards counting animals in whichever habitat that we have.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament talked about biometrics but, I am sure, he was probably talking about how best we could collar animals. Indeed, with our co-operating partners, we are already collaring certain species of animals, including but not only elephants and lions, which are, obviously, cats and other big game that we have. So, yes, we will be conducting surveys, especially this time around, when the grass is a bit low. We will conduct a ground count as well as an aerial survey of the various animal species that we have dotted across the country. I may not be in a position to give the exact count at the moment but, with the help of the various Community Resource Boards (CRBs), the community leaders and, indeed, my department, under Research, will be able to give you a conclusive number of how many animals we have in our twenty national parks.

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I am smiling because I am wondering whether you are aware that the hon. Minister is my childhood friend.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, –

Madam Speaker: Now we are aware.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister, as he delivered his ministerial statement, indicated that the problem of animal-human conflict could be as a result of settlements extending into protected areas. Is the hon. Minister able to provide a location for hon. Members of Parliament like me where we can find data concerning animal-human conflict that came without speculations, knowing that for him, the best he can offer is, ‘It could be’.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, it is always good to have childhood friends in the House beause they always ask leading questions that are very easy to answer.

Thank you very much for that question, hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte.

Madam Speaker, in terms of mapping of problem areas in our country, it is very easy. Such areas are, obviously, Chama North and Chama South, which we have been raising almost all the time. We have our sister from Lundazi, who also has rampant problems with elephants. However, I must just make mention that all Members of Parliament whose constituencies bordering GMAs have a likelihood of facing human-wildlife conflict.

Again, I wish to take this opportunity, Madam Speaker, to apologise to my fellow Parliamentarians who should have, by now, been equipped with the requisite ammunition to curb human-wildlife conflict. I can tell that everybody else here is excited ,but I must make mention that this exercise will be carried out in the shortest possible time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

Mr Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Kwacha an opportunity to ask a supplementary question. I want to commend the hon. Minister for the very co-ordinated ministerial statement that he has just issued.

Madam Speaker, we continue to receive very disturbing reports on people being killed by various animals, especially elephants as well as lions, across the country. These are very disturbing reports. The hon. Minister has mentioned in his ministerial statement that the Government is instituting various measures and contemplating certain measures like fencing off designated wildlife conservation areas. I am interested to know when exactly this can be done so that we can save the lives of our people across the country.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, we have had a number of reports coming through. My constituency, Livingstone, is not spared from the human-wildlife conflict. Just a day or two ago, one or two bodies were found almost decomposed in one of the wards. Obviously, as area Member of Parliament and the person in charge of wildlife, it really gives me many sleepless nights in which I think about how best we are going to curb this human-wildlife conflict. As such, I have directed the DNPW to urgently deploy motor vehicles to those problem areas that will have staff designated for human-wildlife conflict.

Madam Speaker, as a more medium-term solution, we are also looking at creating hotlines on which every community should be able to call the various area wardens in the particular problem areas. I have received reports to the effect that whenever my officers are called upon to avert human-wildlife conflicts, the excuse that we give, as a department, is that we do not have fuel. Obviously, that is more administrative, and my ministry, through my Permanent Secretary (PS), is definitely working round the clock to make sure that we have rapid response to that effect.

Madam Speaker, to answer the question of my fellow hon. Member of Parliament here, in terms of having to create a more robust response, we are looking at ways and means of partnering with a number of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) in the sector that have shown a willingness to support the DNPW in the Ministry of Tourism regarding human-wildlife conflict. Let me make mention that human-wildlife conflict is purely based on changing of livelihoods within communities. If you are going to have a community that is hell-bent, on growing crops around national parks, human-wildlife conflict will never end. However, we are finding ways and means for people to engage in alternative livelihood activities away from the national parks for them to be able to live in harmony with wildlife.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister stated that one of the major contributing factors to increased human-animal conflict is encroachment in game management areas (GMAs). Has he not taken interest to also find out how many animals there are. I ask this because there is an increase in number.

Could it be that the animals are going out of their designated areas because of food shortages?

Is there competition for food between animals and humans, probably, where the food is not enough? The animals may be going out of the GMAs as a result of that. I just want a comment on that.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, if the House remembers very well, just yesterday, my colleague and brother, Hon. Collins Nzovu, the Minister of Green Economy and Environment, …

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

There are just too many whispers. Can we listen to the answers.

Mr Sikumba: … made a compelling plea that we stop deforestation. That is the reason you find animals migrating from point A to point B, it is because people have savagely cut down all the trees.

Madam Speaker, we have seen encroachment that has seen known individuals fence off areas, denying animals their watering holes. That is another issue. That is why they animals move to areas where they can access water. Unfortunately, by our very nature, as humans, we always want to reside in close proximity to water. That is another problem.

Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Minister. The only reason you have seen the law enforcement that we have implemented together with our co-operating partners is that we have cornered these animals, and that has made them to now start to interact with humans in places where humans are habitating. So, we want to encourage a number of you who may have a few parcels of land, some of you in here and those of you who are listening to me now to create open spaces for animals to enable them to access watering holes, and to reforest. We need to regenerate our biodiversity. In the absence of that, we are going to start competing with animals and hence, the increasing human-wildlife conflict.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I like the way the hon. Minister responds intelligently.

I have with me the identity card (ID) that we were honoured with as honorary wildlife police officers not too long ago. Indeed, there is no uniform. I imagine the way we were in Mfuwe. If we were clad in Wildlife Police Uniforms and able to sensitise the people, it would have greater impact in the community. Now, the hon. Minister has stated that measures will be implemented soon. How soon is that soon? We can actually have this information put on television, radio and various platforms so that people are aware of what is going on in areas of human-animal conflicts. How soon can we have those measures communicated through the media?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this supplementary question.

I did make mention earlier that due to circumstances beyond my control, the induction of hon. Members of Parliament could not take place. It should have been done before we rose in the last Session. Through your office, we should be able to engage the hon. Members of Parliament to be equipped. I am very certain that before we rise in December, our colleagues in the House will be well-equipped, and given sufficient information and the requisite support to assist us in combating human-wildlife conflict.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity. I also thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement.

Madam Speaker, the issue of stray lions,

Mr J. Chibuye: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chama North!

A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Roan.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, allow me to apologise to my elder brother for disturbing his line of thought.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 204(e). The Standing Order is very explicit and straightforward. It says:

“(e)         A member shall bow to the Chair on entering or leaving the Chamber, or taking or

leaving his or her seat.”

Madam Speaker, since yesterday, I have observed that the two hon. Members, Hon. Munsanje and Hon. Simuzingili, have been forcing the hon. Member for Sesheke to kneel and bow each time he greets them instead of bowing to you. Are they in order to turn themselves into titular Speakers?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Roan, I saw the hon. Member for Sesheke come in, and he gave a very good bow, almost touching the floor.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: After that, he turned and started greeting the two hon. Members the Lozi way. I do not know, but that is what I think he has overdone.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Sesheke, the two hon. Members; the hon. Member for Mbabala and the hon. Member for Gwembe are our slaves.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Just greet them in a normal manner.

May the hon. Member for Chama North continue.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I was saying that I first received the report regarding stray lions on 12^th September, 2023, and I immediately contacted the area warden, but there was no movement. On 13^th September, 2023, I again contacted the area warden, but he was still reluctant due to logistical challenges. That reluctance compelled me to raise a matter of urgent public importance. Why is it that the officers move at a snail's pace whenever issues of human-animal conflict are brought to their attention, unlike when an animal has been killed, when they move at the speed of lightning?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chama North for this supplementary question.

In the concluding remarks of my ministerial statement, which if you allow me, I will just reread, I stated that it is our hope that the area Member of Parliament in collaboration with the district administration, will lead to the process of reconciliation between the community and the officers.

Madam Speaker, we have had rather undercurrent of what I would like to call tension between my officers and those of Chibale Chiefdom. I would like to ask the hon. Member of Parliament that at an appropriate time, he and I sit down and see how best we can resolve the impasse between the DNPW and the people of Chibale Chiefdom.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving us this chance to ask the hon. Minister a supplementary question. Lundazi and Chama are on one belt.

Last week, we were visited by a Father John who had discussions with our people in Ntitimila who have been affected by this animal-human conflict. In the discussion, he said that Lumezi had been covered for compensation by the Malawian Government because our Government had allowed some elephants to pass through that area. I would like a comment from the hon. Minister because it is said that Lundazi is not covered and, so, our people cannot be compensated. What would be the comment of the hon. Minister? How does he think he will be able to assist our people in accessing that fund, if at all it is available, especially since our people in Chama and Lundazi have been affected? If not, then, what will the Government do?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lundazi for this supplementary question. It will be interesting to understand the fund that is being discussed. As it were, Malawi is a sovereign State. We may not be privy to the compensation that she has just talked about. However, I would like to compare notes with her at some point today just to understand exactly what Malawi has done concerning covering Lumezi Constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, Chitambo lies in the Central Province, and it houses Kasanka National Park and borders Luangwa South National Park.

Hon. Member: South Luangwa!

Mr Mutale: South Luangwa, thank you.

Elephants are also terrorising that area. The hon. Minister did mention some measures that are supposed to be taken in order to hedge against human-wildlife conflict, such as fencing, chili guards and biometric measures. Is it mandatory, especially for privately-owned parks ,to have these measures in place?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chitambo for this supplementary question.

We have twenty national parks in Zambia and thirty-six GMAs. Those protected areas account for close to 33 per cent of Zambia’s land mass, which is 752,000 km². That is a preserve of the Government of the Republic of Zambia, and the animals in the State are held by the President of the Republic, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. Should you, in your personal capacity, opt to have a private game ranch, you are, indeed, mandated to fence it off. However, we also have options in which you can have what we call a private game ranch with an open area. One such area is in Kasanka, which the hon. Member talked about. Yes, it is mandatory that you fence off your area, depending on what species of animals you are keeping. However, we all know that big game, such as elephants, buffaloes and hippos are very problematic no matter how much you fence them. You may need to shock them, the electric fence we are talking about, for you to keep them in a particular enclosure.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. I am adding another ten minutes because I have seen that the list is long.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, a bigger part of my constituency, Nyimba Parliamentary Constituency, is managed by private ranchers. I know that, maybe, the hon. Minister for Eastern Province might disagree but we have surpassed Mfuwe National Park in terms of elephants. What is happening now is that the old human habitat areas are being vandalised and people are being shifted from their villages to the Boma.

Madam Speaker, I do not know if it is impossible for us, as human beings, to come up with a solution. The hon. Minister and I know that if we are to fence off the habitat areas and shock the elephants, they will never go there. When they see the cables, even if power is not connected, they will run away. What is so difficult? Is it the law that needs to be changed so that we start fencing off the areas? I know some areas where people have been disturbed. I also know some constituencies in the Eastern Province where some areas have been fenced off by private ranchers. Why is that so difficult for the Government to do? The cables are very cheap? Can the hon. Minister give us leeway to start fencing off areas using power?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Nyimba for the supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, I gave out numbers prior to this question. If we are going to fence off close to 33 per cent of the 752,000 km² , it will be a tall order for the Government. So, instead of fencing off, the idea, which I have mentioned before on the Floor of the House that these animals are migratory in nature, and it is only important that we let them roam as freely as they possibly can. Yes, we have attempted to fence off game parks in some problem areas. The classic example is in Luangwa, where the DNPW, working with a partner put electric wire, powered by solar panels around that area. However, yet again, the communities vandalised the solar panels and the wires remain defunct. Similarly, we have seen it in Livingstone and the Mosi-oa-Tunya National Park in particular, where the park boundary wire is almost getting vandalised and we are already engaging our co-operating partners to see how best we could reinforce it. So, solutions have been put in place but, unfortunately, maybe, we have not engaged our communities that much to ensure that they know that whatever we do as the Government is for the betterment of their livelihoods. We will continue engaging and sensitising them and we expect hon. Members of Parliament to assist the DNPW in the Ministry of Tourism to educate our communities that once we fence off a problem area, it is in their best interest to safeguard that asset as their own.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mandandi (Sioma): Madam Speaker, for the last three weeks, the people of Sinjembela in Mulamba Ward have been living in fear because of three stray lions. So far, our farmers have lost about eighteen cattle. Now, instead of officers coming to the aid of our people by tracking down the lions, they have resorted to brutalising my people, beating and torturing them, for harvesting the devil’s claw commonly known as seto. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what he really prioritises as he conserves wildlife. Is it human life or wildlife?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Sioma for the supplementary question.

First of all, I would like to thank the hon. Member most sincerely because, of the 266,000 elephants that we have in the KAZA TFCA, 2 per cent reside in Sioma and this is purely because of the law enforcement that our colleagues in Sioma have actually entrusted in the people, which has ensured that our animals are kept alive.

Madam Speaker, obviously, I would like to sympathise with my colleague and brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Sioma, that some officers have become a little overzealous in the way they execute their duties. I have had one-on-one chats with other hon. Members of Parliament who have given me interesting facts about how my officers search homes for dingi; small parks of meat but, when there are human-wildlife conflicts, they are unresponsive. I wish to alert the House that disciplinary action has since been taken on some ailing officers, as it were. Therefore, I would like to encourage my fellow hon. Members of Parliament, should they encounter any such officers, please, feel free to get in touch with me or, indeed, any other senior member of the ministry and the DNPW. We definitely move in to make sure that rot is rooted out of the department.

I thank you Madam Speaker.

Mr Michelo’s phone rang.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members and your phones!

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, two weeks ago, a lion was spotted in Ngwerere, somewhere near Galaunia Farms Limited, and that is just about 15km from here. Since we have animals here, we should not feel insulated. These attacks are quite real. At first, …

Laughter

The House Messenger got Mr Michelo’s phone.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombwe: … the people in Ngwerere had thought that it was a dog and, so, they started stoning it. Then when they went closer, they realised that it was a lion and they scampered for their lives. I would like to know from the hon. Minister if there are any deliberate measures that he has put in place to prevent lions from neighbouring countries straying into our game management areas (GMAs).

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Bahati for the supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, on a lighter note, the animals we see here are very friendly in nature. They do not necessarily attack humans at will. Lions or, probably, cats in general only attack impalas or warthogs, not human beings. The only time that they would attack us is when we agitate them. I am giving testimony because where I come from, in Livingstone, there are lions. When a lion is spotted, it is tourism by any standard. However, on a more serious note, what is important is obviously to educate our communities.

Madam Speaker, I have found out that amongst ourselves here, even when we go out on game drives, there are people who are even scared of just getting in close proximity to an elephant. You are in a game viewer, but you are still scared. How are we going to grow our tourism? It becomes increasingly difficult. However, we will continue sensitising members of our communities to understand how they can tell whether an animal is a lion or not or when they see the spores, they should be able to tell what kind of animal it is. They should also make sure that whenever they see those animals they do not agitate them. They should not stone them. Otherwise, the animals will retaliate and humans will be found wanting.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. We have run out of time, but being a silent listener to the debate, I think, we need to do more. Hon. Members of Parliament, instead of just complaining about the animals we live with, some of which are in front me here, we need to engage the hon. Minister of Tourism, work together with our communities and ensure that the communities do understand the risks and danger of agitating the animals.

Recently, there was a video clip that did the round in which there were elephants and people were standing by making noise, chasing the elephants away, and taking videos. That definitely agitates the animals. So, we need to live together and see how we can survive. As the hon. Minister has said, the animals are actually very friendly. Unless you provoke them, they will not come for you.

Hon. Minister of Tourism, the ball is in your court. See how you can engage the hon. Members and see how they can also engage the communities so that we can promote harmony between animals and humans.

Thank you very much. That was just a comment from a silent listener.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

UNCOLLECTED GARBAGE IN CITIES AND TOWNS COUNTRYWIDE

40. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. why there is uncollected garbage in towns and cities, countrywide;

1. whether the Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign has been achieving its intended purpose;

1. what short-term and long-term measures are being taken to enhance garbage collection and keep towns and cities clean; and
2. when the measures at (c) will be implemented.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that disregard of the law established, chaotic behaviour and a void of order are some of the reasons there is illegal dumping of solid waste by people. Irresponsible solid waste disposal and management practices are also the reasons. The lack of willingness to pay for the service of garbage collection, especially in peri-urban and urban communities, households as well as industries is another. An inadequate financial base for local authorities to procure equipment for solid waste management and processing is another reason.

Madam Speaker, yes, the campaign is now achieving its intended purpose. To this effect, the Government is in the process of increasing the scale of the campaign activities and participation by stakeholders. The Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, which I am privileged to superintend over, has developed a National Clean Cities Masterplan aimed at guiding all stakeholders in the implementation of this campaign.

Madam Speaker, the Government is taking short-term as well as long-term measures to build capacity for solid waste management in the local authorities. Furthermore, the following activities are being implemented in the shor-termt, medium-term and long term-term:

1. in 2023, the Government procured ten skip loader trucks and forty-five skip bins, all valued at about K14.7 million, for distribution to selected municipalities and city councils;

1. in Lusaka, the Government has released funding of about K33.4 million, equivalent to US$1.5 million, to help expedite the collection of garbage in various hot spots and improve the operations of the Chunga Dump Site;

1. the ministry has also procured eight landfill equipment for use at the Chunga Engineered Landfill Dump Site, which is valued at K20.6 million, another equivalent of US$1 million.

1. local authorities have continued to procure additional refuse equipment from their budgets and under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which they are using to address the challenges of uncollected garbage. The Local authorities have also continued to enforce the Solid Waste Regulation and Management Act No. 20 of 2018, which compels residents as well as institutions to take responsibility for the waste that they produce; and

1. the ministry is working with the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS), and intensifying the media sensitisation activities through radio, social media, and public awareness systems. The media sensitisation activities are intended to change the cultural mindset and behaviour, and develop responsible behaviour among our citizens in the management of solid waste.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I have listened attentively to the responses given by the hon. Minister. However, my concern is, like he has indicated in the last part, that we, as citizens have a culture of dirtying areas instead of making them clean.

Madam Speaker, on several occasions, I have seen citizens throw down empty plastic water bottles. I do not know whether when they do that their conscience is free. So, how effective is the enforcement, interaction or collaboration of the police, as a law enforcement agency, with council officers? Are citizens are able to recognise them?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in my view, enforcement can be enhanced with the biggest fight, which is that of cultural behaviour. As I stated in my main answer, one thing for a fact is that leadership in this area had been lacking. What I mean is that when leaders ignore the things that we are supposed to cherish the most, such as the principle of cleanliness being next to godliness, then, we have a problem.

Madam Speaker, no matter how much police force you may have, if the political will is absent, nothing will happen. As far as I am concerned, the ministry that I run and the party in the Government that I belong to have, so far, demonstrated solid political will against the whim of patronage, whereby leaders are frightened, “If you remove us from this area where we are earning our livelihood, we will not vote for you.” We have broken those barriers, and we have demonstrated so.

Madam Speaker, in answering the question by the hon. Member, I want to take advantage of the question and make an appeal to each hon. Member of this Parliament to show leadership in the constituencies that they belong to by making sure that hygiene is top on the agenda through radio stations which, I believe, exist in almost all the constituencies, and through pronouncing punitive measures on those who dump garbage indiscriminately.

Madam Speaker, we will get it right. A journey of a million miles starts with one step. I think, we have taken a giant step as the Government and I want to take advantage of this chance to thank all the hon. Members from both sides of the divide for having not taken a political position on the issue of sanitising our country for it is human activity or human cultural behaviour that can help us get over the issue of poor solid waste management.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, between 2019 and 2020, we saw the Lusaka City Council (LCC) engage contractors who do not even have the capacity to collect garbage. That ended up breeding so much garbage. If you go to Kamwala Market, you will find garbage lying uncollected due to the lack of capacity. The same is the case in Chilenje, Chunga and Matero. So, I want to know what measures the Government has put in place to ensure that the council does not engage contractors who cannot even collect garbage.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the question from my hon. Colleague, the Member of Parliament for Kabwata, is a very important and serious one.

Madam Speaker, I was very slow and reluctant to deal with the issue of performance contractors in Lusaka. At the point when we took over office, we were greeted with a proliferation of piles of garbage everywhere we looked. When we went into the Lusaka City Council (LCC) to find out why it was failing to collect garbage, the answer was that the performance contractors, as they are called, had not been paid their money in a long time, some for over one year. So, we delved into the situation or matrix to try to resolve the issue. We called in the performance contractors, and their response was, “Yes, we are in default. We are working at about 20 per cent capacity because the council has failed to pay us”. So, it became an egg or chicken situation. When we investigated further we found that it is true, as my colleague from Kabwata has indicated, that most of the performance contractors were awarded contracts based on patronage.

Madam Speaker, in that period, until last month, August, when the contracts ended, because we did not want to terminate them –, I want to share with this House that those contracts had no clause on termination when one failed to meet contractual obligations. I think, that was deliberately done so that the contracts would run in perpetuity.

Madam Speaker, the second thing that we discovered, as the case has been on the feeder roads story, which you all know about, that all the performance contractors were members of the Patriotic Front (PF), this party across there (pointing to the left)

Mr Amutike: Those ones!

Mr Nkombo: All of them, to the exclusion of none, were party members of the former Ruling Party. So, we decided to let the contracts run up to the time of their conclusion. I am glad to say to the hon. Member of Parliament that the contracts had run their life as at end of July. So, we have put an advertisement on the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) Platform for people with capacity to come on board and assist manage solid waste in the city.

Madam Speaker, I have already said that we have invested in one bull dozer, one excavator, two front-end loaders and two backhoe loaders to increase the capacity of absorption at the Chunga dump site because that was one of the problems. I am sure, you recall that under three months ago, even the road that leads to the dump site became closed. What closed it? It was closed because of indiscriminate dumping. We had to hire equipment at a great cost to help make the road to the dump site navigable. I fervently believ that that was an act of sabotage by those who held contracts but defaulted as a result of the frustration that came alongside the loss in 2021.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, the cleaning of our cities is mostly done by our local authority officers. What immediate measures has the Government put in place to motivate the corporate world and the community at large to participate in the exercise?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I want to appreciate the question from my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe.

With the new approach and the Government’s position of taking full responsibility for sanitising this country, I want to share with you that corporate companies are now on board. I have issued an invitation to my office of all manufacturers of plastic containers as a beginning point. We have given Trade Kings Company Limited, I am sorry to mention it here, the responsibility to assist us in championing the cause of bringing everyone to the table. We have done this so that manufacturers of plastic containers can play their role because plastic is one of the biggest solid waste hazards that create blockages in drainages. If you look what we are doing now, just around the Northmead area, you will see that we have removed the concrete slab that covers the drainage in preparedness for the coming Rainy Season, to remove all the plastic bottles, such as bottles of Coca-Cola, Manzi and Aqua Savanna which have blocked the drainages. We have asked companies to come to the table so that we can find ways and means for them to contribute a stipend to make sure that we get it right.

Madam Speaker, furthermore, I would like my hon. colleague to take a walk on Cairo Road of Lusaka. What he will see there today is a marvel. The Central Bank of Zambia, the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) and Stanbic Bank Zambia Limited have partnered with this ministry to plant exotic grass on the island of Cairo Road to beautify the city. This is what we are doing. As I said earlier, a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. We are also contacting the Zambia National Service (ZNS),  and we have, so far, been working with the LCC. Further, in our desperate quest to get it right, because this is the arid season, some of you may have even been seeing fire engines helping to water that grass. That is how determined we are to get this thing right.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think, we can continue engaging the hon. Minister on this issue. However, again, being a silent listener to every debate, I think, we need all hon. Members to come to the table and help the hon. Minister in keeping our environments clean. For example, hon. Members, as you launch your Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects, why do you not also engage the communities to ensure that they keep their environments clean? Also, talk to them about the benefits of living in a clean environment and change their mindsets. I think, it is incumbent upon all of us to ensure that we keep our country clean.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

UPGRADING OF NATUSEKO HEALTH CENTRE IN KABWE DISTRICT

41. Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Natuseko Health Centre in Kabwe District to a first-level hospital;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo)): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Natuseko Health Centre in Kabwe District to a first-level hospital. The House may wish to note that the focus of the Government on completing ongoing projects, such as:

1. completion of thirty-six district hospitals, countrywide;

1. construction of health posts under the 650 Health Posts Project, countrywide;

1. implementation of the Presidential directive on the construction of maternity wings; and

1. implementation of the Presidential directive on the provision of water-borne sanitation facilities, power sources and Internet services in all the health centres and health posts countrywide.

Madam Speaker, as stated above, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Natuseko Health Centre to a district hospital. Therefore, part (b) of the question falls off.

With regards to question (c), the policy of the Government, Madam Speaker, is to complete ongoing projects before embarking on new ones.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the Government is aware that Kabwe is among the districts in the country that have no first-level hospital. Going forward, it plans to continue constructing district hospitals in all districts, both those newly created and the old ones that do not have first-level hospitals. Due to limited fiscal space, the implementation of this Government plan is being undertaken in a phased approach. The initial phase consists of the construction of thirty-six district hospitals, which is currently ongoing, with four out of thirty-six hospitals completed and the rest at various stages of completion.

Madam Speaker, thank you.

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the ministry, right now, is completing thirty-six first-level hospitals around the country. According to the ministry’s programme, when does he think the last hospital will be completed so that we can estimate when it will start the new phase to build first-level hospitals in other districts?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think, the hon. Member’s question is specific to a date. However, let me give a bit more information.

Within Central Province, there are seven districts that do not have first-level hospitals, and these are Shibuyunji, Chibombo, Chisamba, Kabwe, Ngabwe, Luano and Chitambo. Just to re-emphasise the point, it is the Government’s policy that all the 116 districts in the country should have first-level hospitals. The time frame in which it will be completed is dependent on the availability of resources, which will be debated in this House. Immediately after the first thirty-six are completed, we will embark on the next thirty-seven district hospitals. That is the phase in which more hospitals will be built. However, when the last one will be built is purely dependent on the availability of resources.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, I just want to mak a comment to the hon. Minister. He is aware that –

Madam Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Minister has mentioned that almost all the districts in Central Province have no first-level hospitals. We only have the central hospital in Kabwe, which is a referral hospital for all those districts, and it was constructed in 1959. So, it has little space. If you went to Kabwe Central, you would be surprised to find that post-natal mothers who are referred from various districts, and even other post-natal and antenatal mothers, share beds during this time, which is a sad situation. There is an urgent need to ensure that the hospital, which is also dilapidated, is supplemented by a first-level hospital. Much as the hon. Minister has commented on that, of course, the ministry has other commitments with other hospitals, there is also an urgent need in Kabwe.

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister also know that we have had many issues with accidents? We do not only give healthcare to people in Central Province, but even to people from other provinces because of the many accidents that we have had. So, there is an urgent need in Kabwe for a first-level hospital. Does the ministry not think of engaging even the co-operating partners so that they can help the district to have a first-level hospital?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first all, I want to thank the hon. Member for being very active in representing her constituency. I must mention here, in the House, that she has fully engaged the ministry in looking at this problem. In fact, she went on a visit during which she was accompanied by the provincial and district health departments and other officers to look at this problem and the potential site. With respect to Central Province, in the next phase, which is Phase II, the Government has planned to construct six first-level hospitals. I can assure her that the Government is fully mindful of the issues at Kabwe Central Hospital, and we shall do what we can to ensure that the hospital she is talking about is constructed as soon as resources are made available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister talked about the Government having plans to construct district hospitals countrywide. One of the districts that do not have district hospitals is Chipili. So, when are we seeing the Government rolling out the programme of constructing district hospitals?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the programme is already on-going. In fact, I did mention that the first phase is of about thirty-six hospitals. These are already in the process of being constructed. I also did mention that out of the thirty-six, four have been completed. The next phase involves the thirty-seven hospitals. Therefore, since Chipili is in Luapula Province, I can tell the hon. Member that in that phase, Luapula will have six hopsitals, which are on the list. This is a well-thought-out  and tabulated programme. In fact, it is not six for Luapula; it is nine hospitals.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, I just wanted to also inform you that my constituency is in the valley and that it is also amongst those that are faced with the human-animal conflict. I thought I should inform you because you do not give me space when I indicate here.

Madam Speaker: On the issues touching on the hon. Minister of Tourism, please, do engage him.

DAMS IN MSANZALA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

42. Mr E. Daka asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

1. how many dams were operational in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency, as of April, 2023;

1. how many dams were not operational;

1. when the dams at (b) will be rehabilitated;

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct more dams in the constituency;

1. if so, how many dams are earmarked for construction;

1. what the cost of constructing the new dams is; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, there were two dams that were operational in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency as of April, 2023, and these are Lutwazi and Muzumwa dams.

Madam Speaker, there was one dam that was not operational, and that is the New Muzumwa Dam. The Government will rehabilitate the dam after conducting feasibility studies and surveys, and coming up with technical design drawings and bill of quantities (BoQ).

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct dams countrywide in the future, including in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, there are no new dams that have been earmarked for construction in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency this year.

The cost of constructing new dams, Madam Speaker, can only be established after conducting detailed feasibility studies and surveys, and coming up with technical design drawings and BoQs.

Madam Speaker, as stated in (d), the Government has plans to construct dams countrywide, including in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, when will works on the New Muzumwa Dam commence?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, as and when we put resources together, but it is our desire that the works can be done as soon as possible. So, I will continue engaging the hon. Member of Parliament to ensure that we put some money aside and attend to that dam, just like we are doing in various other parts of our provinces.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, the Government has informed the people of Msanzala that it is planning to construct more dams. How many dams are earmarked for Msanzala Constituency?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament may recall that not too long ago, I did request hon. Members of Parliament to give us their priority areas in terms of water and sanitation-related challenges. The idea behind that is to get input from the people’s representatives. I want to believe that the hon. Member of Parliament for Msanzala has submitted the five priority areas, and that will also help us to pick the thinking of the hon. Member and the demands or needs of the people in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency. If it speaks to our picking more dams, and also looking at the resource envelope, we will try to allocate more dams.

Madam Speaker, again, I want to appeal to the hon. Member to continue engaging us on the challenges on the ground.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: This is a constituency-specific question. I can see some interest. However, hon. Members, we need to make progress. You can engage the hon. Minister, and I hope that you have submitted your five priority areas. So, we make progress.

DISTRICTS WITHOUT BOARDING SECONDARY SCHOOLS

43. Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Education:

1. how many districts countrywide did not have a boarding secondary school, as of August, 2023;

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct boarding secondary schools in the districts at (a);

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) on behalf of (the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there were eighteen districts countrywide that did not have a boarding secondary school as of 30^th November, 2022.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct boarding secondary schools in the districts at (a).

Madam Speaker, due to the response in part (b), part (c) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no such plans because the Government is focused on the agenda of completing the infrastructure already earmarked or under construction, including stalled projects countrywide, before considering new projects.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, the report given by the Acting hon. Minister of Education indicates that there are eighteen districts without boarding school facilities in Zambia. I am aware that under the Ministry of Health, there has been a programme to provide certain levels of healthcare facilities in districts that do not have them. I would assume that the same principle applies to the Ministry of Education insofar as providing education facilities in districts concerned. Is the hon. Minister in a position to indicate, not only to the people of Kamfinsa Constituency, but also to those in the other eighteen districts mentioned when this activity will be considered in the foreseeable future?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this progressive question. The Government’s plan is to, firstly, complete the twenty-four boarding secondary schools under construction across the country. In addition, we have secured funds under the World Bank to construct 120 secondary schools, including in the eighteen districts.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang'andu): Madam Speaker, may the Acting hon. Minister of Education help us harmonise the statistics. His Excellency the President sat there (pointing to the Speaker’s position) when he was officially opening this august House and informed this House that 146 schools were completed in two years. Here, the hon. Minister is saying that eighteen districts have no schools. Could the hon. Minister help this august House understand the statistics that were given by the President. Out of the 140 schools –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang'andu!

The question is about boarding schools, not –

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, yes, I am completing my question. Out of the 140 schools, how many boarding schools were completed?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I think, the key answer relates to what remain outstanding, as at now, in terms of boarding schools, and we have said that they are eighteen, meaning that the rest of them have been completed. So, only eighteen are outstanding.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, allow me to put this very important question into perspective so that the hon. Minister will be able to answer explicitly.

Zambia has 116 districts, and of those, eighteen do not have a boarding facility. There must be a plan somewhere that should provide the solution. The eighteen districts need boarding facilities. Kitwe needs a boarding facility. There are so many other districts that do not have boarding facilities. So, there must be a plan somewhere. My question to the hon. Minister is very specific: Eighteen districts are very few. When does the ministry intend to provide resources for those eighteen districts to have boarding facilities? Why build another boarding school in a district that already has? I think, the question is very specific.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the specific question.

The plan is very clear. Of the 120 secondary schools that are going to be built, including in Kitwe, there will be a day secondary school.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. There are still indications but, I think, we need to move on. We need to get to the Orders of the Day.

______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Madam Speaker, when the House adjourned yesterday, I had just finished highlighting how the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) deal has been sugar-coated by an investor called Agarwal.

Madam Speaker, to turn around the fortunes in the mining sector, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has to build on what the Patriotic Front (PF)left. The two mines that were repossessed presented an opportunity for this country to have a foothold in the mining sector. The way this deal was done is a total scam. The experts who sat to advise the President misled him.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, the people of Wusakile Constituency –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

As you debate, remember Standing Order No. 65, which is on the need for the information that you provide on the Floor of the House to be factual and verifiable. I do not know if you have any evidence that you can tender before this House to show that the President was misled by the people who were advising him on this deal. Lay the information on the Table, hon. Member. Otherwise, withdraw what you just said.

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, it was misleading in the sense that we know what is supposed to be done correctly.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You have been guided. Withdraw that statement or lay that information on the Table.

Mr Kalobo. Madam Speaker, it is withdrawn. However, I will go ahead and say that the way this deal was done was not proper. We need to do better because all these tactics that have been used and the route we have taken, we know that it cannot help Zambia. The best way was to negotiate for a shareholding that is beneficial to the Zambian people, benefits like having 51 per cent shares and above so that part of the shares could be offloaded on the Lusaka Stock Exchange for the Zambian people to participate. In his speech, the President talked about making the Zambian people participate fully in the mining sector. That is the way people can participate fully.

Madam Speaker, the people of Wusakile are very bitter about the KCM deal because it does not safeguard the employees. Previously, the KCM payroll of 100 expatriates was equivalent to 2,200 Zambian workers, which is unacceptable. Further, every day, the company it was involved with transfer pricing. That is about –

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: Your time is up, hon. Member. Before you conclude, however, who is the investor in the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) matter?

Mr Kalobo: It is Vedanta Resources Limited, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Yes. Please stick to the investor. Do not involve the individual shareholders.

Mr Kalobo: Well guided, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I will be brief because I am not too well, but I did not want to miss the opportunity to just appreciate the speech delivered by His Excellency the President on 8^th September, 2023.

Madam Speaker, as usual, the speech, to me, was inspiring because it outlined a number of areas in which the Government has made some great strides. The speech also did acknowledge some of the challenges that have been experienced in our developmental journey, but it also proposed some solutions to some of the challenges.

Madam Speaker, the other day, I was listening to the hon. Leader of the Opposition when he kept repeating the phrase in the speech about development not being straightforward. I do not know what he had in mind when he kept repeating that. I also agree that development is not straightforward but, at least, it is predicable because we are able to see the direction in which the New Dawn Government is taking us.

Madam Speaker, you cannot talk about development now without referring to the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This is one big milestone that has been difficult for anybody to ignore. Even those who initially wanted to pretend that it was nothing to talk about have now just realised that you cannot ignore the strides that we have made using the CDF.

Madam Speaker, Kafue has been a beneficiary because, now, we are talking about schools in places like Mulangwa in Chiawa, where children had not seen the walls of a classroom. They are excited now, as they see that development coming up. We will be putting up clinics in places where they did not ever dream of having a clinic. That is what the CDF has done, and I adopt the debate of an hon. Colleague, who is an Independent Member, who said that the CDF has given this country an opportunity and vehicle through which the national cake is being shared. This is because for the people of Chiawa or Chanyanya, for example, it was going to be difficult for them to appreciate roads were being put up in Lusaka when their challenges were about water and maternity wings, which they have seen now taking shape in their respective areas.

Madam Speaker, the development is not only taking place in Kafue, but also in other constituencies. Yesterday, I was listening to a conversation between the Hon. Second Deputy Speaker and the hon. Member for Sesheke. They were talking about the clinics, for instance, that have been built in their respective constituencies, which has reduced the distance to the nearest health centres to less than 5 km, as per Ministry of Health policy. That is what the CDF has done.

Madam Speaker, apart from capital projects, we heard the statistics on how our youths have been empowered. As many as 47,000 were reportedly empowered through the skills development component of the CDF, and Kafue contributed almost 1,000 to those 47,000 youths who have been empowered countrywide.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, I was excited yesterday to have been briefed by the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts that some equipment has already been procured for our Youth Resource Centre in Kafue. This will add to the numbers that we will contribute, as a district and as a constituency, to the number of empowered youths in the country.

Madam Speaker, I tend to wonder when people say that money is no longer in circulation because we have had people receiving grants and loans. This is a more dignified manner in which our people are being empowered, compared with the culture of tantameni that we used to see in the past. Now, women who are seated at their market stalls are able to receive money right into their mobile phones to boost their businesses.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, what more would anyone look for?

Madam Speaker, like the President has been encouraging us, I think, this is the time to really summon our entrepreneurial spirit and hard work so that we can tap into all the opportunities and benefits that the Government is trying to put on our table. Of course, if we expect to receive free things as we have been made used in the past, then, it will not work.

Madam Speaker, time is not with me, but let me end by appreciating you for having allowed us to be part of the President’s delegation to China, where we saw many beautiful things ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: ...that we will eventually see coming to Zambia. From yesterday’s debates, we heard that our friends are anxious to hear what deals have been struck there. I am sure that all of us are expectant of the development that will come from China.

Madam Speaker, lastly, people have been talking about the K7 million received from the CDF. As far as I am concerned, the K7 million that we have received in two quarters is far much more than the CDF that I received in five years in my last tenure.

Mr Mubika: In ten years.

Mrs Chonya: So, I am very grateful, and I want to encourage the Government to continue on this trajectory. I think, our hon. Colleagues in the Cabinet need the encouragement so that they remain focused and do not get distracted by some of the unnecessary criticism that we have heard.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I do agree that, indeed, the new Government, as was stated in the President’s Speech, is visionary, stable and truly committed to registering progress for the benefit of all of us.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the discussion on the President’s Speech, which was delivered on 8^th September, 2023, in this august House.

Mr Mubika: Nĭ hăo.

Dr Mwanza: Oh, nĭ hăo, nĭ hăo, nĭ hăo.

Laughter

Dr Mwanza: Zànbiyà guojiǎ liǎng nián de fā zhǎn qing kuàng.

Madam Speaker: What does that mean?

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, it means ‘the development progress of Zambia in two years’. Liǎng nián means ‘two years’. Fā zhǎn is development and qing kuàng is status.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: In the meantime, time is running out.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, I will start with the saying that “A thousand kilometres journey starts with one step”. In Chinese, it is yì qìān gōng lǐ de lùchéng xù yāo yibu kǎishi zòu. Bù shì feì huà.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kaumbwe!

No. Let us stick to the speech. I do not think the essence of the speech is to teach us the Chinese language. So, hon. Member, please, stick to the speech, so that you can utilise your time prudently.

You may proceed.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, I spoke Chinese because I was excited. Once the President’s delegation came back from China, some hon. Members spoke a bit of Chinese in the House.

Madam Speaker, first of all, I will talk about the debt stock. The United Party for National Development’s (UPNDs) New Dawn Government did a great job by reaching a debt restructuring agreement with the Group of Twenty (G20) countries. The issue of debt has been a thorn in the flesh of the country. The national debt has been constricting the country in terms of delivering the services that are required to be delivered by the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: Furthermore, the New Dawn Government reached a bailout agreement with the International Monetary Fund (IMF). We wish that as our hon. Colleagues go further to negotiate with individual creditors, they should reach concessional levels of even going up to debt cancellation. I know that it is possible, from the skills that have been exhibited, to achieve the debt restructuring. Debt relief has not been an easy journey because it was achieved without cost on the Government and without engaging any consultant.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: Naupya!

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, the benefits that we have received so far from such kinds of pronouncements include the increase in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I will give a eulogy of Kaumbwe Constituency and how it complements the Government’s efforts and development aspirations that have been outlined by the UPND Government.

Madam Speaker, Kaumbwe Constituency needs about 300 houses for teachers and ten new dams. We did an infrastructure needs assessment, and I have that report right here. Now, with the increased CDF, Kaumbwe Constituency has seen the first four boarding secondary schools being built.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: Kaumbwe Constituency has seen the first dam being built and forty-eight groups benefit from loan empowerment to the tune of K4.9 million. Kaumbwe Constituency has also seen 147 groups benefiting from grants.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, of course, there are challenges in procurement. The Government has devolved some of the functions to provincial offices for quick procurement. In order for us all in Kaumbwe Constituency and Zambia at large to see the benefits of the enhanced CDF, the Attorney-General’s Office must also be decentralised to improve procurement in terms of lead time. The councils need to have procurement plans because we do not have them. So, we do not know when projects are going to be procured. The CDF Committee gives a budget, but we do not know as to when a project will be procured.

Madam Speaker, we also need timely disbursement of CDF funds. There should also not be a discriminatory procurement. The New Dawn Government is giving equal amounts of money to all the constituencies.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: However, Madam Speaker, the procurement of projects is discriminatory, of which I feel we should be able to resolve. Talking about roads, which are transport infrastructure, the President missed an opportunity to explore the potential of the UPND and New Dawn Government because he did not make any statement on railway transport. Look at the speech, and you will see that there are pronouncements about roads and aviation. Those are all transportation infrastructure that need integration. As a country, we aspire to produce 3 million tonnes of copper. How are we going to move that copper on our roads in the absence of railways? We need a pronouncement from the Government concerning railway transportation infrastructure; the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA), the Eastern Railway Line and the North West Railway Line.

Madam Speaker, as regards the procurement of road works, the Government is following the approach of public-private partnerships (PPPs). The Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway was the first PPP. So, it is like a model road. The way the Government procured that project is totally wrong because the PPP model informs us that a foreign investor brings money into the country, but it is the opposite in this case. The fact is that on that 327 km road network, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government entered into a PPP agreement at US$1.3 billion. The New Dawn Government came in and reviewed the contract. The New Dawn Government is, today, telling us that the same 327 km is going to be done at half the price.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, it is going to be done at half the price. Definitely, this is to the benefit of the whole country.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: Your time is up. Can you wind up.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

There is a need to critically review the other PPP projects that are going to be undertaken in the country in order to achieve a win-win situation, not a situation in which an investor takes away from the country.

With these few words, feichang ganxie xie xie.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That is how the hon. Member squandered his time.

Laughter

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Kantanshi an opportunity to comment on the speech that the President delivered on 8^th September, 2023, to this august House.

Madam Speaker, I must mention that as a country, we are where we have been before in the past insofar as the challenges we are facing are concerned. The question is: Is the President assembling the correct tools to ensure that we respond to the challenges. The President started by recognising the rate of inflation being a single digit, as well as our growth rate being around 4.7 per cent.

Madam Speaker, we currently have close to 7 million young people looking for jobs, and we all know that this is a time bomb. If we do not address the issue of job creation properly or if we do not look at the opportunities that are supposed to create jobs properly, we will be creating a future problem. I can give you a simple example. The Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) just announced that it had procured about 7.5 million condoms to be delivered to the Copperbelt. That clearly shows that there is a lot of idle time there. It must be that people do not have jobs there. It is wasting taxpayer’s money to buy condoms when we could use that same money to create apprenticeship programmes. I have been in this House, talking about apprenticeship programmes and how so much money is scattered all over in the name of empowerment. You go to Constituency Development Fund (CDF), it is empowerment, to the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, it is empowerment, and the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, it is still empowerment. You go to what the hon. Minister of Agriculture was talking about, it is also empowerment. Why can the Government not come up with a proper strategy for making use of this huge pool of funds, which is all over?

Madam Speaker, in fact, under empowerment, when I was on the Public Accounts Committee, 95 per cent is the failure rate and only 5 per cent returned the money. However, if we got that money and put part of it into apprenticeship programmes, it would cater for more people, not the paltry 2,000 people whom the hon. Minister of Youth, Sports and Arts wants. Seven million Kwacha against 2,000 people is impossible arithmetics. Even when we talk about the 4,500 jobs for teachers, we could collect that fund, put it into an apprenticeship programme and employ close to 100,000 people. At the same time, we would be able to give experience to these people so that as the economy continues to heal and grow, permanent jobs start to expose themselves. People would have experience and some living wage to contribute to the tax system of our country. So, the Government needs to relook at job creation, and not just from the public sector as we are seeing now.

Madam Speaker, I also want to comment on the mining sector. I come from a mining constituency and, of course, we remain nervous, but we are still hopeful. We have seen that the problems of  our colleagues in Chingola and Chililabombwe have been attended to. We are also waiting for a solution for Mopani Copper Mines (MCM).

Madam Speaker, as a country, why have we continued to simply rely on the output of copper when it is a well-known fact that when copper is being mined by technocrats, it comes out with other minerals? In fact, when I was a member of the Pan-African Parliament (PAP), there was a component that dealt with mining. We learnt that Zambia was one of the countries that did not have any formula for determining how much money the other mineral that come with copper are supposed to be paid for by the company. We have not been doing that. In fact, what we have seen is that we have decided to just continue giving out copper mining licences, yet other minerals are coming out with copper. We are not talking about nickel today, whose price is over US$30,000 a tonne, yet we have the largest nickel mine in Africa right here, in Zambia. We are talking about other minerals like gold, but the speech was able to identify a new regulatory commission that will be announced soon. It is a first of its kind. We hope, it will not be dragging the sector behind but, instead optimising the opportunities under the sector.

Madam Speaker, another area in which I got interested is the geological mapping of our country. This should be done by the private sector partnering with the Government, not from our Treasury. If this is going to be under the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, it means that a lot money has to be invested in buying equipment when we could easily partner with investors so that the Government can also have a better shareholding in the sector, which is the backbone of our economy. We are where we are in terms of exchange rates and non-productivity because the mining sector seems to not be moving as fast as it should. So, we will continue having the economic shocks of not having enough foreign exchange (forex) in the market or at a reasonable price.

Madam Speaker, I also want to comment on an issue that is quite interesting. The President spoke about the financial sector partnering with the Government to provide affordable lending rates. How is that possible when for two years, the Central Bank has been increasing the interest rate? The interest rate is basically the cost at which you borrow money. Now, for businesses, including the farmers whom the Ministry of Agriculture is talking about, in terms of investing in maize production, will go to the commercial market and borrow money at a commercial rate. Again, we do not see how the cost of mealie meal or maize is going to reduce even if we are going to have it in abundance because the farmer is going to go to the commercial bank where he or she usually goes before this policy has been announced. So, I wanted to remind the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that we want affordable interest rates. I also want to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister the fact that the Zambia Credit Guarantee Scheme is also not working. The Government has put a K150 million there. I did research and, as we speak right now, only K21 million has been disbursed. So, the banks are sitting with K130 million of our money which, again, I feel, if it was invested in apprenticeship programmes, we would be able to get many people participating in our economy as opposed to what we are seeing now, whereby the Ministry of Health is investing in us.

Madam Speaker, I have noticed that under infrastructure, there are only two roads that the President talked about, which are under the public-private partnership (PPP). Again, under this sector, we have not seen much activity. I hope that with the debt restructuring, we will see the Road Development Agency (RDA) participate more and create the opportunities we had under infrastructure activities in the past.

I have also noticed, Madam Speaker, that local government is doing much better, though it is a department. They have already worked on 1,700 kilometres of road which is highly commendable.

Madam Speaker, all I want to say is that we are going through this difficult time economically, but I do not think, as a country, we do not have the tools and abilities to get out of where we are. What we need is the Government to start thinking outside the box so that it can go beyond where it is right now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Bwana Mkubwa to comment on the President’s Speech, which was delivered on 8^th September, 2023. I will restrict my debate to three aspects, which are agriculture, mining and livestock. I am just supporting my colleague, Hon. Anthony Mumba from the Copperbelt.

Madam Speaker, before I proceed, let me make mention that it is a notorious fact that what the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is doing in our areas cannot be over-emphasised because we are all aware of it being a game changer. So, I am not going to say much on that. Even amongst thieves, there is loyalty. So, it is important that we are able to see and give credit where it is due.

Madam Speaker, let me proceed and quickly comment on what is contained on page 7 of the President’s Speech pertaining to agriculture.

Our able hon. Minister of Agriculture was running us through some statistics yesterday. The President did highlight agriculture as the bedrock of our economic transformation, which I totally agree with. However, let me mention that it is also important that we transform or streamline the procurement of agricultural inputs, such as fertiliser. Let me just cite an example, which I did yesterday but, now, I will do in more detail. In March, when the advertisement for procurement of fertiliser was making the rounds all over the world, in Dubai or Kazakhstan, fertiliser was going at US$350 per metric tonne. If our procurement processes were streamlined to procure on time, we would save a lot. The price today is US$700 per metric tonne and, if you subtract US$350, you get US$350, which we could have saved. If you multiply that by 150 metric tonnes, you will realise that the Government was going to save much more; something like US$52 million. That is why I say, maybe, we need to relook at the Public Procurement Act No.8 of 2020 and see how we can ensure that the Government continues to save the much-needed resources to that effect. If not so, even in terms of vetting the would-be suppliers of fertiliser, maybe, the Government should consider looking at issues of expression of interest where suppliers can come on board –

Mr Mwiimbu left his seat

.Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, are you visiting? You can speak in low tones, please.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I am saying that, maybe, the Government can streamline the procurement process. I did mention that it should consider coming up with an expression of interest mechanism whereby various companies can express interest. Then, before they are evaluated and vetted, they must be seen to have the capacity to supply fertiliser. That way, when they go to the tendering stage, the process can be quicker and we will mitigate some of the issues that the ministry is going through.

Madam Speaker, let me proceed to comment on the statistics that were mentioned for the 2022/2023 Farming Season, having seen that 1,024,000 farmers benefited from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). That is very commendable. However, the programme was designed to graduate farmers. So, it is imperative, looking at our fiscal space, that the Government quickly streamlines the programme and ensures that farmers begin to graduate. The Government must also ensure that FISP is somehow depoliticised, because it is not just about giving people inputs, but also seeing to it that they graduate and enlist new farmers who can also benefit.

Madam Speaker, when we delay the distribution of inputs, it culminates in farmers being affected. It also affects the yields of farmers who plant seed and need fertiliser. That will, in turn, affect our food security. So, we need to ensure that those issues are looked at.

Madam Speaker, let me proceed to comment on page 9 of the President’s Speech, where he talked about farming blocks and that US$300 million being earmarked for developing farming blocks, which is very commendable. That is very commendable. Let me make mention that we hope that the Government has done due diligence or undertaken a feasibility study to ensure that we have a win-win situation as we come up with the farming blocks, which should be able to contribute to the food security of this country. The farming blocks should be able to empower would-be farmers who should get some of the farms, and have access to dams and various facilities for growing  on which they can grow the much-needed produce for this country and also for export to our neighbouring countries.

Madam Speaker, let me proceed to also comment on livestock.  On page 10, ...

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwambazi: Mr Speaker, let me proceed to comment on page 10 of His Excellency the President’s Speech, where he talks about the management of livestock diseases in 2023. The strides that the Government is making in ensuring that livestock diseases are kept under control are commendable. The Government has been spending a lot of money on medicines to curb livestock diseases. So, it is imperative that in future, the Government sets up a facility for producing vaccines against animal diseases in the country instead of buying medicines. On the same page, it was highlighted that 127 metric tonnes of avocados were exported in 2023, compared with 37 metric tonnes in 2022. This is very commendable. I also want to say that, probably, in the future, the Government should look at prospects of value addition to ensure that even as we export this commodity, we add value for us to earn more income from such exports.

Mr Speaker, let me comment on the mining sector, which the previous debater, the hon. Member for Kantanshi, ably debated. Since I come from the Copperbelt, let me also take this opportunity to thank His Excellency the President for the re-introduction of operations at Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) in Chingola. I am sure, our colleagues will see the economic activities in the province. However, let me also mention that I would have loved to see –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Laughter

Mr Twasa: (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to debate the Motion of Thanks.

Mr Speaker, I am happy in this House today, and I give gratitude to the Republican President for having come to this House on 8^th September, 2023.

I concede that, indeed, development is not a straightforward journey. It was very magnanimous and good of the President to say that. That is what is expected of a person who is honest. I want to mention that I will be very honest. I will be one of the most appreciated speakers by the hon. Members on your right because the only way we are going to help them is by being sincere and honest.

Mr Speaker, having conceded that, indeed, development is difficult to achieve, the President must not have gone ahead to start making more promises like he does on pages 3 and 4 of his speech.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Twasa: He should have started by apologising.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Twasa: It was crucial that the President apologised to the Zambian people, having conceded that development is not a straightforward journey. It would not hurt His Excellency the President to come here to and say, “Now that I have realised that development is not straightforward journey; I have talked to my Cabinet Ministers and all the technocrats, I have realised that it is practically difficult for me to reduce the price of fertilizer to K50.” It was going to help. ‘I have talked to my experts and hon. Cabinet Ministers. It is practically difficult for me reduce the price of fuel even after having removed the middlemen’, if they were ever there.

Mr Speaker, we would have understood the President better, and we were going to start on a much better footing from 8^th September, 2023, going forward, if he came to this House and said when I told you that we would not bring Vedanta Resources Limited because we also said bufi, we will not bring them back. Today, I am announcing that we will bring Vedanta Resources Limited.” He must not even have said that he was proud.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Twasa: He should not have.

Mr Speaker, the President was going to make more sense to the people out there had he come and told the House that he had consulted the millers and the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU), and that it was practically difficult for him to reduce the price of mealie meal.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

As much as you would want to debate, be very selective with the words you use. Instead of talking to the speech, you are now saying the President should have made more sense. I do not know what you are trying to say. You know that the language that you use on the Floor of the House should be parliamentary. So, going forward, be mindful of what you say. It is better you stick to the speech rather than using expressions that do not even hold water and that are sarcastic.

You can continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, thank you very much. I said that it would have made sense to the people out there, not the President.

Mr Speaker, it would have made more sense had the President come to this House and said, when I called my predecessor ka mwendo mnjira, I have now realised that I have made fifty-two foreign trips in two years, and I apologise. Let us start on a better note.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What do you mean by “kamwendo mnjira”? You translate.

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, a moveous person.

Mr Speaker, all these things I am talking about are things that are prevailing. The President took a reality check. He went on a reality check in Mandevu. He knows what is prevailing on the ground. He also went to Kanyama.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Is that part of the President’s Speech?

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, it is part of the President’s Speech.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Where? Which page?

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, I am talking about where he said that we are starting on a better note, alright. When he talked about economic transformation.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! Resume your seat and let me guide you. You should stick to the President’s Speech and not make assumptions. We are here to debate the President’s Speech. Is there Kanyama mentioned anywhere in the speech? Is Mandevu mentioned in the speech? Tell me the page where it is written, ‘Kanyama’ and ‘Mandevu’.

Mr Twasa: It is there.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: On what page is it? Stick to the President’s Speech.

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, I have taken a holistic approach. The things we have seen happening in this Government are a proper case of the kettle calling the pot black. When we say you have failed to do this, you take centre stage. You will also find yourself in the same situation.

Mr Speaker, moving on to the issue of debt restructuring, the President assured us that there would be no more room for borrowing and that this Government had reached a ceiling. However, this very Government came back and the issue was debated here on the Floor of the House where the current Government has borrowed US$6 billion whereas the past Government borrowed US$11 billion in ten years.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think, that last time I guided an hon. Member, you were equally here. There is no way you can substantiate the claim that the Government has borrowed US$6 billion. Even the borrowing plan that you are talking about was not for US$6 billion. So, do not insinuate. Just stick to the President’s Speech. That will be good for the House than misleading the public.

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance. I am still on debt restructuring.

We have heard this Government talk about debt restructuring. We wanted to see more being done from the fifty-two trips that the President has made. It would have been much better had the current Government told us much more than just restructuring. Out of the fifty-two trips, we expected to see our debt written off.

Mr Speaker, we still implore the President to do more. We want to see the fifty-two trips make much more meaningful profit for Zambians than just debt restructuring. This Government has never paid a single debt since it came into power. However, we have seen prices of commodities escalating and the narrative out there is that it is failing to manage the economy properly because the Patriotic Front (PF) left a huge debt burden that it is paying back. The current Government has not paid a penny, to date, and even the restructuring of the debt does not give any guarantee that the economy will do any better going forward, than it is doing. I am very sure, that this Government has not paid a single penny to service the debt.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are talking about paying debt. Do you work for the Ministry of Finance and National Planning? You would not know whether the debt was paid or not. I am trying to encourage you to talk about things that you understand. You cannot be talking about paying debts when you do not have information. So, it is better you just stick to debating the President’s Speech. It is difficult for you to tell whether the Government has been paying debts or not. It is only people who work for the Ministry of Finance and National Planning who can know that. So, let us just talk about things that we understand and which we we can substantiate. If I was to call upon you to bring evidence of the statements of accounts from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning that are indicative of the debt that has not been serviced, you cannot do that. So, let us stick to the President’s Speech and talk about what is being done.

You can continue.

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, when the President talked about delivering 4,000 tractor-based mechanisation services across the country in 2022, I felt like rising on a point of order because we have never seen those tractors in Kasenengwa and the Eastern Province. Where were they delivered when we do not have a single one in my constituency and the Eastern Province? Where did the 4,000 tractor-based mechanisation services go? I propose that there be a Select Committee to look at the President’s Speech so that he does not come to present ones that are not factual to the House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, we will be alternating in terms of the list of hon. Members to speak.

Hon. Mufalali, you may proceed.

Mr Mufalali (Nominated): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to debate the Motion of Thanks on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, I will go straight to the President’s Speech. The theme of the speech for this Session is “Building on the Socio-Economic Gains for Improved Livelihood and a Better Zambia”.

Mr Speaker, I want to appreciate the President’s Speech delivered to this House, as it was quite resolved and spoke to what is happening in this country. The President gave a factual speech that requires every citizen’s appreciation.

Mr Speaker, in building socio-economic gains and improved livelihood, the first thing the President had to do when he came into power or rather leadership, because he does not believe in saying that he came into power to ensure that the debt burden the country had was resolved. That took a lot of strength and time.

Mr Speaker, the resolution of the debt situation, which is huge, required a lot of time. It required a man or a woman who would spend time resolving it. If you have a husband or wife who cannot get up and work when he sees that there is hunger in the House, but stays at home and does tandabale while his family is starving, such a man or woman is not serious. The President is a serious man. So, he took time to ensure that the debt burden was removed from us.

Sir, the debt burden issue has its history, it comes from the previous leadership, which wants to start claiming that there was nothing in this speech and that the Government is failing to pay the debt. The restructuring of debt required all of us to support the President. He moved up and down until we restructured the US$6.3 billion debt for us to have space to breathe.

Unfortunately, the debt that we found does not only include external debt, but also internal debt. So, one thing you realise is that domestic debt is being paid because contractors are being paid. If the President did not move to start looking for a way out of this debt, the contractors in this country and civil servants were not going to continue being paid. So, he had to take these strides for all of us to find get benefits of a restructured debt and be able to clear or to start clearing the domestic debt.

Mr Speaker, I heard one of the debaters from your left say that the benefits of the low rate of inflation are not accruing. Even if you reduce the inflation rate to a single digit, nothing is showing on the ground. What is showing on the ground is that with a reduced debt burden and an improved single-digit inflation rate at 9.9 per cent, you are gaining because some of the services that you are supposed to offer, as the Government, are being offered. This is because of the solution that the President found in the restructured debt. We are now able to pay workers across the board. Unfortunately, people think it is magic where you just shout abracadabra and things happen. It does not work like that. The benefits are trickling down because the President and his Cabinet are doing something right.

Mr Speaker, in this country, we reached a situation in which certain services were failing. Certain institutions were not even being funded in full. However, at the moment, if you go across the width and breadth of this country, those who have construction works going on will tell you that they are being paid on time. I had an opportunity, as a member of the Public Accounts Committee, to inspect some structures that fall under infrastructure, and contractors confirmed that they are not owed anything. Those are projects that the previous Government had failed to complete. However, we now have a Government that is well-organised and one that understands what it is doing. That is why we are seeing progress. Hospitals in places such as Nchelenge and Mwansabombwe are being completed, a thing that the previous Government failed to do. Even the airport in Kasama is being completed so that people can start landing in Kasama. You cannot have institutions and infrastructure that are not being utilised, but you then say, “We have done.” As long as it is not being used, you have not done it. Now, we have a Government that is caring and a President who is willing to support the people of Zambia. He is doing it for the people of Zambia, not for any other person.

We have a President who has so much desire to incorporate this country. Unfortunately, for some of the people here, when he went around greeting them after he had finished delivering his speech, they said, “He was greeting us and telling us that, we needed to work with him.”  He is asking you to work with him for you to have development. It is not something to make fun of, no. It is something that requires a leader who is civil and humble; a leader who can walk to the Opposition and say, “Gentlemen, let us work as a team”. That is what is required.

Madam Speaker, the benefits are trickling down to every citizen and every constituency in this country. We had a situation in which constituencies were being discriminated against, but we now have a leader and a President who comes to the House knowing very well that one side is for the Opposition hon. Members, but he goes and greets them. Knowing very well that they have constituencies, he gives them enough money to benefit from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and other Government resources. This is the leadership that this country should continue working with and supporting.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, from the outset, may I say that, indeed, the President came to this House to deliver a speech. From what I heard, however, the President missed a very big opportunity to address the people of Zambia on the so many challenges that they are facing.

Mr Speaker, I remember that the hon. Members on both your left and right listened to the speech in silence. I still remember that during the 2021 address, there were applauses everywhere. People were clapping but, this time around, I did not see that.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on your right must know that their days are numbered.

Mr Speaker, on page 4 of his speech, the President says inflation had reduced, but we do not see that on the ground, as many things are expensive. The United Party for National Development (UPND) has taken us back. This time around, we are seeing queues of people struggling for mealie meal. People queue up for mealie meal looking at the Zambian National Service (ZNS) mills. The Government should make sure the ZNS is available in all districts because there is no ZNS in Katete for us to queue up for cheaper mealie meal. Mealie meal is expensive. The UPND Government has reduced the three meals, that people used to have during the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, to only have one meal, if any.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the days of our colleagues are numbered. The group that you see here on the left was on the right. One day, the hon. Members on your rights will come to the left, especially given that they are curtailing debates. Instead of listening to the good debates from the Opposition so that they can change, they curtail debates. So, they will go as soon as possible.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the President said that the inflation rate is at 9.9 per cent. We expect goods to be cheaper but, to the contrary, things are very expensive. A bag of mealie meal is going at K300, from the K150 that the UPND found it at. The UPND was promising heaven on earth. So, it must fulfil that now. Citani, …

Laughter

Mr P. Phiri: … and we want you to do more. Mucitise. Do more.

Mr Nkandu: Meaning?

Mr P. Phiri: Reduce the prices as promised to the people of Zambia.

People are wallowing in poverty, and they are not eating because the UPND was promising. No wonder, people inside the House used to clap. This time, people cannot clap anymore. They come into the House quietly and go out quietly because the speech does not give hope to them.

Mr Nkandu: To you!

Mr P. Phiri: You have to change. Otherwise, you will also come back to the left just as quickly.

Let me come to health, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkandu: Time up!

Mr P. Phiri: The President confirmed here, in the House, that the Government was going to employ 3,000 health workers. That is because the PF Government constructed a lot of infrastructure. It built hospitals in constituencies. The President only mentioned the 3,000 workers because the Government knows that the infrastructure part was already done by the PF.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah, APhiri!

Mr P. Phiri: The Government is even failing to procure medicine. Afana! There is nothing.

Laughter

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I went to one of the health posts in my constituency only to find that even syringes were not in stock. The Government has failed (pointing at Hon. UPND Members.) No wonder, the Zambian people want the UPND back on the left so that able people here, in the House, from the PF, who know how to rule the Government, can come back.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: APhiri anabwera!

Mr P. Phiri: Let me quickly come to the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Mr Speaker, FISP has been mismanaged. There is no way the Government can say that it is going to maintain 1 million beneficiaries, but keeps on bringing on board many co-operatives and clubs. That means that with the many people it is bringing in, the number of recipients is going up, yet the fertiliser remains at 1 million beneficiaries’ allocation. By so doing, people are sharing ma meda and, from that, people will be sharing ma pamela of fertiliser. It is coming, just wait.

Mr Mulunda: Hon. Mtolo is here!

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, we need to maintain the old numbers. If the Government wants to remove some co-operatives, well and good. It should wean them off because they have done their part. The Government can bring new co-operatives on board so that it maintains the number and, at least, a person will walk away with six or eight bags of fertiliser. The Government has contributed to the situation now. We do not have maize in this country and, worse still, it sold all the maize and, this time around, there is hunger everywhere.

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Member: Awe!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to our conditions here in the House, where a debater is supposed to give facts.

Mr Mwila: Which Standing Order?

Mr Nkandu: 65!

Mr Mtolo: 65.

Mr Speaker, this is a very respected House, and what we say goes to all the districts of Zambia. It is not right.

Is the hon. Member for Mkaika in order to mislead the nation by saying that we have no maize in this country when, as I am speaking, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has bought well over 340,000 metric tonnes of maize and it has carry-over stock of more 145,000 metric tonnes? In total, we have close to 500,000 metric tonnes of maize. Is he in order to mislead the country by saying that we have no maize and, therefore, possibily a stampede for mealie meal because people will be afraid? This is a serious issue, and I would ask my hon. brother to withdraw that statement so that he does not mislead the nation.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chisopa interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Chisopa!

Do not debate while seated.

The hon. Member for Mkaika is completely out of order.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Completely!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: He is completely out of order because he has talked about issues that he might not understand in terms of how stocked our strategic reserves are. These are issues that should be talked about by experts, those who know how well stocked our strategic reserves are. So, the hon. Member for Mkaika should stick to the debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Speech and not talk about things that he might not understand. He should avoid misleading himself and Zambians.

Hon. Member for Mkaika, you may continue.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, thank you so much. Otherwise, that is what we want because, you see, if we have maize, why can we not give the millers at a subsidised price so that the bag of mealie meal that our brothers are buying at a very expensive price can become cheap? That is what we want. If we have maize, our colleagues should, please, take it to the millers. What I said here, in the House, is that we exported and gave maize out. If we have maize now, well and good, because people are wallowing in poverty and having one meal per day. It is not a joke. If our colleagues go to their constituencies, they should ask their relatives what the situation is on the ground. Let us subsidise and give maize not just to the Zambia National Service (ZNS), which is only in Lusaka and Kitwe. In Katete, there is no ZNS. Let us subsidise that maize so that even millers in Katete can buy it at a lower price. Then we can give mealie meal to the people at an affordable price.

Mr Mulunda: You are from Mozambique, iwe!

Mr P. Phiri: You know, in Zambia, Mr Speaker, maize is the staple food and everyone depends on ka nshima. Without nshima, then there is no family. So, we need that ka nshima ba hon. Minister, please.

Laughter

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, if we have maize, let it be subsidised. In fact, this is what most of the people wanted to hear from the President: “The Government is now subsidising this commodity. So, expect a bag of mealie meal to be bought at such a price.”

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr P. Phiri: Aha!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Your time is up.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, I am very grateful for the opportunity you have given me, on behalf of the people of Mwinilunga, to add a voice to the debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Speech.

Mr Speaker, my experience is that in 1991, when power or leadership changed hands, …

Mr Malambo: Yes, leadership!

Mr Samakayi: … we lost industries in rural areas. My experience also tells me that in 2011, when the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) went out of leadership and handed the relay baton to the Patriotic Front (PF), there were many programmes and projects that were abandoned. There was a school that had overgrown grass in Lundazi. Kanyama Boarding School in Mwinilunga was abandoned. Mufumbwe Girls’ Secondary in Mufumbwe was also abandoned. Further, the electrification programme in Mufumbwe and Kasempa was abandoned and the poles taken to some province I do not want to mention because I am avoiding being controversial. The Mwinilunga road rehabilitation project was also abandoned.

Mr Nkandu: The poor finishers!

Mr Samakayi: That has been the trend in this country, that when leadership changes, projects that are attributed to the previous leadership are abandoned.

Mr Speaker, I was intrigued to hear the President assure Zambians that all the projects that were left by the Patriotic Front (PF) would be completed by the New Dawn Government. That is the hallmark of leadership. What more do you want to ask from a man? The narrative of abandoning programmes that were being implemented by the previous regime has been changed. My colleague and friend from Kasama told us yesterday how the airport has been completed in Kasama. I also want to inform the nation that the fruit factory in Mwinilunga and another in Katete have been completed. Now, we are able eat pineapple chunks and pineapple rings from Mwinilunga. That is what this country deserves. That is the leadership that is required for development and service delivery.

Mr Speaker, we promised things, as a party, but people are pretending to be oblivious to what we have achieved as far as our promises are concerned. We promised to staff schools with teachers, learning accommodation, teachers’ houses, maternity annexes, skills acquisition by our youths and vulnerable children being sponsored to secondary schools. That has been achieved. Zambians and hon. Colleagues here, you cannot have it all.

Mr Speaker, there is what we call adult thinking and magic thinking. The magic thinkers want to have it all. No, life does not happen that way. There are choices that you make. If you choose A, you cannot have B.

Hon. Member: Water, water. Give him some water.

Laughter

Mr Samakayi: I do not need water anymore.

Laughter

Mr Samakayi: Mr Speaker, the people of Mwinilunga are very happy that the maize price per bag is at K280. We are going to grow more. Our maize has been ferried to Monze so that people in Monze can have nshima. We are growing the maize now. We have swapped positions. The North-Western Province and Mwinilunga are now the maize belt while Monze is no more.

Laughter

Mr Samakayi: The people are happy with agricultural loans in Mwinilunga. Some of them will abandon the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and go for the loans. We are capable of feeding the entire nation because it rains in Mwinilunga, and we have more rivers than any other district in the country.

Mr Speaker, the President, in paragraph 40 of his speech, talked about the problems that we have had in the mining sector. We want to benefit from the ingenuity of the President through resolutions the Kasenseli Gold Mine issue so that our youths can benefit, and commerce and trade in Mwinilunga enhanced for our district council to get some revenues.

Mr Speaker, the other thing that makes me very happy is when the President talks about improving conditions for Councillors. We have been talking about improving conditions for our Councillors because we work with them and it is important that they are remunerated properly, and we have a Government that is listening. That is how a Government and a leadership is supposed to be; it should be able to listen.

The President acknowledged the increase in the price of mealie meal and said that he is going to resolve this matter. What more do you want? I am sure, he will resolve it. He has resolved the debt issue. So, he is going to resolve the price of maize, too.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired. 

Mr Kampampi (Mwansabombwe): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the speech that was presented by the President on 8^th September, 2023.

Mr Speaker, I will start my debate with paragraph 4 of the speech, where the President mentions the gains made as far as economic growth is concerned. He said that the Government had recorded a 4.7 per cent economic growth and that the inflation rate had also reduced to the single digit of 9.9 per cent. Much as all these macroeconomic indicators can be pronounced, the people out there are suffering. The cost of living has gone up. What the people of Zambia expect is to benefit from the pronouncements. How then, can we make sure that these pronouncements we are making are trickling down to the Zambians out there in Mwansabombwe, who do not even understand the issues of inflation and the gains that the Government is posting?

Mr Speaker, when you hear people complaining about the cost of living, it means that something wrong has been done to the economy. People out there are complaining about the cost of mealie meal and of almost all the essential commodities.

Mr Speaker, if I can recall very well, when the Patriotic Front (PF) was in Government, it was fashionable then to say that the PF had failed to govern because of the high cost of living. However, today, we are in the same situation, yet the people on your right side are saying it is okay. I recall very well that when they were in the Opposition, they condemned the PF so badly, saying that it had failed to govern. What has changed now that the cost of living is even four or five times higher than it used to be when the PF was in Government?

Mr Speaker, I can only urge the Government to go back to the drawing board. The Government should realise that as much as it is making pronouncements about these macro-economic gains and the reduction in the inflation rate, the gains should trickle down to the Zambian people so that the people can start appreciating that, really, the Government of the United Party for National Development (UPND) is working for the benefit of the Zambian people.

Mr Speaker, being a Member of Parliament from a rural constituency, I cannot go on without commenting on the issue of agriculture. As late as yesterday, the hon. Minister of Agriculture was on the Floor of the House presenting a ministerial statement pertaining to the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). When you go on the ground, you will find real issues. Let us be truthful to ourselves.

Mr Speaker, so many co-operatives and clubs have been brought into FISP, which is even making it difficult for our farmers out there to have the yield that they deserve. I can attest to the Minister of Agriculture that even this year, in my constituency, people are going to share fertiliser. Why is it so? It is because many clubs have been brought into the system without an increase in the number of the packs. I was in the constituency for over a month and I made time to meet most of the co-operatives and farmers there. I appeal to the hon. Minister of Agriculture that it is not too late to put in place measures to make sure that the numbers that are supposed to benefit from FISP are matched to the packs that are there. Otherwise, we will still go back to the same, and we will still be facing the issues we are facing now; the issues of the mealie meal prices being high and the like.

Mr Speaker, in my constituency, Mwansabombwe, right now, a meda that, under normal circumstances, should be selling at less than K20 is fetching K35. That is too expensive for most households, and it is all because of the way the previous farming season was handled, whereby people were sharing fertiliser and there was late distribution of farming inputs. So, people were made to not produce what they were supposed to have produced.

Mr Speaker, on page 9 of his speech, the President encourages farmers to engage in early maize production. To me, it is a good thing but, at the same time, it is not going to help us to reduce the price of mealie meal. Hon. Members will agree with me that the cost of producing maize using irrigation is very high. So, how will that help us to reduce the high prices of maize that we are paying?

Mr Speaker, on the same page, page 9, the President talks about the US$300 million that has been allocated to farming blocks. If I recall very well, this is an issue that was mentioned even last year when the President delivered his speech. For how long are we going to wait without implementing some of these measures? These are some of the measures that can help us to cushion what is prevailing now regarding food security, where maize is concerned.

Mr Speaker, let me also touch on the conditions for Councillors, which the President talked about. He said Councillors’ conditions and remuneration would be looked into. This is not the first time this is happening. When PF formed Government, we found Councillors earning K700. The PF actually increased the allowances for Councillors by almost 350 per cent. So, I expect the New Dawn Government to do much better than what the PF did.

 Mr Speaker, as I conclude, one of the hon. Members made a comment about a hospital being completed in my constituency. I do agree that the hospital has been completed and that there are just final touches that are being made. However, I can attest to the fact that the contract was signed in 2021 when the PF was in Government and is fully funded by donors.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

Tell the truth and the truth shall set you free. This speech can be equated to key performance indicators (KPI), where one can know their strength, successes and weaknesses. So, the President came here to admit that mealie meal prices are high. What is the formula? Chishika kuchilimina zala kuilimina, chishika kuchichabila zala kuilimina, meaning if you are feeling cold and you are outside, go and fetch firewood and if you are hungry, go and farm.

Mr B. Mpundu: Nomba ifwe fwebashakwata land?

Ms Sefulo: We will give you.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, what language is that?

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, it is Luvale.

Mr Speaker, hepa hepa namwanobe zala naikubuka meaning, just stay a little longer with your child, the period of hunger will go away. The President has admitted. That is what you do; you tell your children the truth. You do not hide. Talk of the fuel prices, he has come to indicate what is happening in the outside world. It is not a Zambian situation only. If you were to take the Sub-Saharan region, you would see that the situation is the same.

Mr Speaker, what are the other indicators? Go to Luangeni Constituency and see what the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has done. Go to Mitete. For a decade, there has been nothing, akuna kokusina, for ten years. Within two years, however, in all the wards in Mitete, there is either a 1x3 classroom block, a hospital, a maternity wing or staff houses. Those are the indicators in Mitete. I think it the same even in Mkaika and Mwansabombwe constituencies. The only thing is not to sit on the money. The money is there.

Mr Fube indicated to raise a point of order.

Hon. Government Members: Chilubi!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, for the very first time, our Shepolopolo have gone to the World Cup after missing three editions. Our Chipolopolo is back in the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) tournament.

Mr Nkandu: Yes, after so many years!

Mr Mutelo: Tthose are indicators that the President  did well. The Councillors will be motivated. Those are the KPIs; debt restructuring, job creation, marketeer booster loans, Vedanta Resources Limited, increased tourism, the Kasama Airport and ‘Vendata’

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: That is how we say it in the Western Province.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, in Mitete, we had a deficit of teachers but, in the first employment by the New Dawn Government, we had 410 teachers. Before that, what did we find? One hundred and eighty-three (183) teachers.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, we had a shortfall of 12,000 desks, but that has now been reduced to 4,000. So, are we not moving?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: We need to tell the truth and admit that we are making progress. Yes, we need the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeshi Road to be constructed, and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is aware of that. He is listening. It might not be mentioned, but plans for the construction of the road are in place.

Mr Speaker, electricity is being provided in Mitete. Further, three communication towers are to be erected there. The hon. Minister of Science and Technology is sending contractors this year. When you fail to perform your marital duties and another person comes to do the same, that is the result.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the indicators are more on the positive side. Even our hon. Colleagues are appreciating what they are seeing. In the past, we used to buy chalk on our own. Every ministry now has funding for the first time in my ten years. That is all thanks to the KPIs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think that example of marital duties is not a good one.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are trying to encourage immorality, hon. Member.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Katombola Constituency to join several other progressive hon. Members of Parliament who have spoken before me in commending His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, and his Government. He has a powerful Cabinet in place.

Mr Speaker, the people of Katombola will address, maybe, two or three points because most of the other points have already been covered. I will start by debating the President’s sentiments relating to the restoration of the rule of law.

Mr Nkandu: Ema lawyers aba.

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, the people of Katombola were amazed that we could hold elections in the country in 2021 with assistance from the army or the military, which is unprecedented since 1964. That was because of the breakdown in the rule of law and respect for human rights.

Mr Speaker, the people of Katombola Constituency wish to join in commending His Excellency the President and his Government for restoring the rule of law because the rule of law is what gives rise to investment. You cannot do anything where there is a breakdown of the rule of law.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, cadreism has since been removed in this country and everyone is now free to associate with a political party of their choice.

Mr Nkandu: You would have run away you people (pointing at Opposition hon. Members). You would be in Mozambique and Malawi.

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, I wish to take a bit of time to address the looting of national resources through corruption in previous Governments. The people of Katombola take corruption as a very serious offence, and they have asked me to lobby this House, as we enact amendments to the law to enhance punitive measures against any person who engages in looting of national resources and those who have looted national resources and are still moving freely as we speak.

Mr Nkandu: When you arrest them ati “tribal”.

Mr Andeleki: They are even very lucky that they are still free but, soon or later, the law will catch up with them.

Mr Speaker, I wish to reflect on the fact that Zambia, in 1964, was a middle-income country. However, as we are taking office, we were on the list of least developed countries. Why is this the case? It is because of the mismanagement of public resources through looting and inflated contracts. People supply nothing, but they go and draw money at the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). Cadres were sleeping on money in the previous Government.

Mr Nkandu: They were even burning it.

Mr Andeleki: Today, we are happy that His Excellency the President has restored order. We do not see anyone playing around with money, burning it or whatever was happening. This is a sign that sanity has been restored in the country. The people of Katombola are saying that corruption must be treated the same as homicide or murder, because it causes a lot of harm to the lives of innocent people, particularly members of the public, whom we are entrusted with authority to represent. Corruption should never ever again be allowed.

Mr Speaker, we are aware that in the previous Government many people even acquired helicopters. How can somebody who is merely a Cabinet hon. Minister afford such things? How much are four helicopters? The people of Katombola are saying job well done to His Excellency the President and his Government for restoring the rule of law. Today anyone is free to trade in the market place. There is no more ‘Commander One’ or ‘America what’, the titles that Patriotic Front (PF) cadres had at the Intercity Bus Terminus. The restoration of the rule of law in Zambia is once again highly commendable by the people of Katombola.

Mr Speaker, as I move on, allow me to congratulate His Excellency the President and his hardworking team on the debt restructuring exercise. That was not a small achievement. The debt burden that was left by the PF Government was unimaginable. Particularly, I want to speak about the Eurobond. A Eurobond of €2 billion was acquired by the previous Government for the recapitalisation of Zambia Railways Limited and Zambia Telecommunications Limited (Zamtel) Limited. However, what did our friends do with the money? They pocketed it. They did not recapitalise Zambia Railways Limited.

Mr Munsanje: They chewed the money.

Mr Andeleki: They did not recapitalise Zamtel Limited. They, instead, ended up selling Zamtel Limited. Some of the hon. Ministers in the previous Government were sacrificed because of money meant for the Social Cash Transfer scheme, which ended up in people’s pockets. The young lady they sacrificed could not have been involved in the crime alone.

Sir, we wish to commend His Excellency the President and his Government for successfully negotiating the debt restructuring agreement. That is going to help this country to be free after fourteen years. For the first time, in at least, fourteen years, debt restructuring has been achieved, and we commend His Excellency the President and his Government for that.

Mr Speaker, Katombola has an agriculture-based economy. When we took office, not even a single dip tank had been constructed by the previous Government. No dip tank was functioning. Nothing was given to the Ministry of Agriculture for this purpose. We thank His Excellency the President for the assurance that his Government is going to take agriculture as a business and create a credit window. A credit window is very important. I have heard some people say that they cannot. There is money now available under the New Dawn Government.

Hon. UNPD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: There is now money that people can access to go and plough more ground.

Mr Speaker, we want to thank His Excellency the President for rethinking the issue of water harvesting. We have a lot of water just running through the country. About 60 per cent of Zambia is covered by water bodies. However, we have not benefited from this water because the people who were on the seat concentrated on uubomba mwi bala alya mwibala.

Laughter

Mr Andeleki: They ended up eating the seed.

Mr Speaker, I wish to commend His Excellency the President on the robust agriculture policies that were pronounced. The people of Katombola are happy that there is now a credit window. Further, the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) is being enhanced to improve access to farming inputs. As regards irrigation, I live near the Zambezi River, which flows through my constituency. However, we do not have agricultural facilities. There was no water harvesting or any investment at all in the agriculture sector.

Mr First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, I want to sincerely thank you for the opportunity given to me to debate the President’s Speech, which was delivered on the occasion of the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, at the outset, I want to state that I will focus my debate on the issue of the mealie meal price because it seems to be contentious. The issue has brought some drama on the Floor of this House, whereby we saw some hon. Members come here, just for the purpose of causing drama, with packs popularly known as tu pamela. That was just to create drama so that gullible people out there might believe that there is a real crisis. However, I will give facts that will speak to the fact that we are actually on course to mending this perennial problem, which has been ignored for a long time.

Mr Speaker, for a long time, the key players in the mealie meal supply chain have been the private sector. You will agree with me that most of the millers are actually from the private sector. Usually, they benefit from cheap maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) that is usually subsidised. However, who pays the cost for that maize which is highly subsidised? This is what we need to understand as a country. Sometimes, we like living on borrowed air and expect to continue living for a long time. We need to have facts put together for us to understand this situation. Now, talking about the private sector, it has, for some time, exploited the public. Why is that so? Sometimes, that has been done justifiably because there is a cost that involves human resource and, probably, transportation. That cost is factored into the price of mealie meal. However, I will dwell more on the initiatives that the New Dawn Administration has taken in order to arrest the escalating prices of mealie meal. One of them, and I would like to state that our colleagues in the previous regime could not effectively implement it, is the use of the Zambia National Service (ZNS), which is a public institution that employs civil servants already on a salary...

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambita: ...and gives them an opportunity to be players in this particular sector.

We inherited a problem. The problem of escalating prices of mealie is an inherited one. Since when have prices of mealie meal stayed stagnant? They always go up. Why is that so? The reason is very simple: it is because of issues of supply and demand. The demand for maize has risen. You should all understand that in the region, there has been high demand for maize, for obvious reasons. We also know that there were challenges in the eastern side of the world where fertiliser used to come from. The unrest in the eastern side raised the cost of importing fertilisers. How has the New Dawn Administration arrested the situation? Now we have a local company manufacturing fertiliser. You remember the hon. Minister of Agriculture coming here to announce a new company that is producing fertiliser locally. That cuts the cost of transporting fertiliser from the Far East or Middle East to Zambia. Those are initiatives I am counting on.

Mr Speaker, in addressing the issue of maize farming, the New Dawn Government came up with the idea of farming blocks. Do you remember the farming blocks? They were just announced in the previous regime, but nothing was going on there. Now, we are even bringing in the Zambia National Service (ZNS) to participate in the farming blocks so that the idea is relevant. When the ZNS participates, you expect that the cost will definitely be reduced, especially since the ZNS already has employees who are on Government payroll. So, there will be no issue about the cost of employees. So, the farming blocks idea is new and it is also going to help.

Mr Speaker, other initiatives have been in place. I want you to count them. The zero-rating of all agricultural equipment –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambita: Sir, agricultural equipment –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think, for the sake of allowing debate to flow, I will not allow any more points of order. You are aware that points of order are given at the discretion of the Presiding Officer.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo remained upstanding.

Mr Simushi: Sit down!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Resume your seat, hon. Member.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Points of order are at the discretion of the Presiding Officer.

The hon. Member debating, continue.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, I sincerely thank you for allowing me to continue. I was talking about the zero-rating of agricultural equipment. That is going to enhance mechanised farming which will improve production. You see, these are the initiatives that have been put in place. We heard in the previous regime our colleagues announce mechanised farming and other initiatives, but they were just stories. Such initiatives were not initiated. Now, we have a situation in which there is zero-rating of agricultural equipment. Now, watch the space, and follow me very carefully because I am mentioning these things one by one.

Mr Amutike: Yes!

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, the strategies that have been put in place will affect the price of mealie meal and the price will eventually go down. Now, here is a strategic framework. Firstly, there has been the purchase of ten milling plants that will be run by the ZNS. This means that we are effectively coming into the playing field cheaper, and we expect the players to counter the exploitation of people by the private sector. Of course, we do not want to crowd out the private sector.

Mr Speaker, here is another point. Of course, there is growing demand in the region. So, to encourage more production, we have secured a readily available market in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). Some of them have even paid a considerable amount of dollars in advance.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: That encourages those who produce maize to produce even more because there is a readily available market at a good price.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Kambita: So, all this drama that hon. Members have been putting up here will stop at some point because the price of mealie meal will definitely come down.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Hon. UPND Member: Tell them!

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, there is another initiative that has been put in place. Look, there are investors who have invested in an agricultural manufacturing plant with the capacity to produce 300 metric tonnes of urea and 700 metric tonnes of D Compound fertiliser. This means that the cost of fertiliser will now go down. So, with all these initiatives, we are laying the groundwork for production to go up. When the production of maize goes up, it means that mealie meal prices will also go down. I think, that is where our colleagues have missed it. Even if they come here with that drama of tu pamela, I think, they need to –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

 _______

The House adjourned at 1820 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 22^nd September, 2023.

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