Thursday, 14^th September, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

                                                                    PRAYER                                                                    

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM CHANGO PRIMARY SCHOOL AND REEL PROJECTS IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils as well as their teachers from Chango Primary School and selected pupils sponsored under Reel Projects 2023 and their Project Manager.

Pupils and teachers rose.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

You may resume your seats.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Which district?

Madam Speaker: I do not know the district. What is important is that they are from within Zambia.

Laughter

SESSIONAL COMMITTEES – MEMBERSHIP

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, in accordance with Article 80 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, and Standing Order 165 (2) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, the Standing Orders Committee appointed hon. Members of Parliament to Standing Committees for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, as follows:

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEES

Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services (10)

Dr Christopher K. Kalila, MP

Ms Tasila E. Lungu, MP

Mr Leevan Chibombwe, MP

Mr Alex Katakwe, MP

Mr Miles Sampa, MP

Mr Paul Chala, MP

Mr Monty Chinkuli, MP

Mr Joseph S. Munsanje, MP

Mr Heartson Mabeta, MP

Mr Masauso K. Tembo, MP

Committee on Local Government Accounts (10)

Mr Darius Mulunda, MP

Dr Aaron D. Mwanza, MP

Mr Misheck Mutelo, MP

Mr Christopher Shakafuswa, MP

Mr Eliot Kamondo, MP

Mr Misheck Nyambose, MP

Mr Luka Simumba, MP

Mr Luhamba Mwene, MP

Mr Edgar Sing’ombe, MP

Ms Kampamba S. Mulenga, MP

I apologise to Hon. Mulenga for having difficulties pronouncing her first name. I do not know why I cannot get used to pronouncing her name, but I will get there.

Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs (10)

Mr Newton Samakayi, MP

Mr Gift S. Sialubalo, MP

Mr Christopher Kang’ombe, MP

Mr Twaambo E. Mutinta, MP

Mr Kampampi Kabaso, MP

Mr Anthony M. Kasandwe, MP

Mr Kenny Siachisumo, MP

Mr Nickson Chilangwa, MP

Mr Jay E. Banda, MP

Rev. Given Katuta, MP

Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters (10)

Mr Kabwe T. Chewe, MP

Ms Sibeso K. Sefulo, MP

Mr Joel Chibuye, MP

Mr Ronald K. Chitotela, MP

Mr Derricky Chilundika, MP

Mr Gift S. Sialubalo, MP

Mr Davison Mung’andu, MP

Dr Simon Mwale, MP

Mr Wesley Kolala, MP

Mr Walusa Mulaliki, MP

Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs (10)

Brig-Gen Morgan S. Sitwala (Rtd), MP

Ms Sibongile Mwamba, MP.

Mr Cliff Mpundu, MP

Mr Lusale J. Simbao, MP

Mr Derricky Chilundika, MP

Mr Misheck Mutelo, MP

Mr Yotam Mtayachalo, MP

Mr Phillimon Twasa, MP

Mr Christopher Chibuye, MP

Mr Mubika Mubika, MP

With regard to Ms Mwamba, she is definetly not ‘Mrs’ They have put ‘Mrs’. I do not know when she got married.

Laughter

Committee on Parastatal Bodies (10)

Mr Brian Kambita, MP

Ms Julien Nyemba, MP

Mr Mubita B. Anakoka, MP

Mr Anthony M Kasandwe, MP

Mr Vumango P. Musumali, MP

Mr Stephen Kampyongo, MP

Mr Binwell Mpundu, MP

Mr Robert M. Chabinga, MP

Mr Herbert Mapani, MP

Mrs Mutinta C. Mazoka, MP

Committee on Cabinet Affairs (10)

Mr Andrew Lubusha, MP

Ms Sibeso Sefulo, MP

Mr Oliver M. Amutike, MP

Mr Darius Mulunda, MP

Mr Christopher Shakafuswa, MP

Mr Kaliye M. Mandandi, MP

Dr Christopher K. Kalila, MP

Rev. Given Katuta, MP

Mr Cliff Mpundu, MP

Mr Elias M. Musonda, MP

Committee on Transport, Works and Supply (10)

Mr Mubika Mubika, MP

Mr Sunday C. Chanda, MP

Mr Charles Mulenga, MP

Mr Lloyd Lubozha, MP

Mr Frank R. Kapyanga, MP

Mr Mutotwe Kafwaya, MP

Mr Bernard Kanengo, MP

Mr Eliot Kamondo, MP

Ms Marjorie Nakaponda, MP

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda, MP

Committee on Sport, Youth and Child Matters (10)

Mr Ackleo I. A. Banda, MP

Mrs Emeldah Munashabantu, MP

Mr Heartson Mabeta, MP

Mr Ronald Chitotela, MP

Mr George K. Kandafula, MP

Mr Sipho Hlazo, MP

Mr Allen Banda, MP

Ms Jean Chisenga, MP

Mr Luckson M. Lungu, MP

Mr Alex Katakwe, MP

Committee on National Guidance and Gender Matters (10)

Mrs Mirriam C. Chonya, MP

Ms Brenda Nyirenda, MP

Mr Munir Zulu, MP

Mr Gystave Chonde, MP

Mr Kabwe T. Chewe, MP

Mr Mulenga Fube, MP

Ms Chrizoster Halwiindi, MP

Mr Bernard Kanengo, MP

Mr Emmanuel Banda, MP

Mr Harry Kamboni, MP

Mr Chitotela: Ms Chrizoster Halwiindi, that name, Madam.

Madam Speaker: The Tonga name, Chrizoster.

Laughter

Hon. Members, I have now completed announcing the composition of all the Committees. If any hon. Member finds that they do not belong to any Committee, such an hon. Member should inform the Office of the Clerk accordingly. I am sure there are some errors here and there. We will look at those and make a correction if need be sometime next week.

I thank you.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

STATUS OF KONKOLA COPPER MINES AND MOPANI COPPER MINES

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according my ministry the occasion to update the House and the nation at large on the status of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines (MCM).

Madam Speaker, KCM has been under provisional liquidation, a process that was initiated by the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) pursuant to Section 57 (g) of the Corporate Insolvency Act of 2017. The ZCMM-IH, a minority shareholder, presented a petition for compulsory liquidation in the High Court on 21^st May, 2019. The petition included an application for the appointment of a provisional liquidator. That was necessitated by the need to protect the assets in the period between presentation of the petition and determination of the matter. Following the commencement of winding up proceedings on 21^st May, 2019, KCM has been under the full control of the provisional liquidator.

Madam Speaker, as you may recall, on 7^th September, 2022, the ZCCM-IH, Vedanta Resources Limited and KCM’s provisional liquidator entered into a written agreement to suspend the hearing of disputes between the two parties, Vedanta Resources Limited, on one hand, and the ZCCM-IH on the other, to pursue the amicable settlement of the disputes.

Madam Speaker, during the protracted dispute, the asset had greatly deteriorated and production output substantially reduced. This was a sad development for a national strategic asset as it negatively affected its operations and stakeholders particularly in terms of its contribution to the economic activities on the Copperbelt. In order to progress and unlock KCM, the Government and parties involved were in consistent engagements to resolve the dispute and find a sustainable solution that would be mutually beneficial.

Madam Speaker, following extensive consultations with various stakeholders, including the unions, we made a very bold decision to restore normalcy at KCM by bringing back Vedanta Resources Limited. The company will return to run and resuscitate the operations of KCM as the majority shareholder alongside ZCCM-IH as the minority shareholder.

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to inform the House that all disputes between the parties have been resolved and all proceedings relating to disputes will be withdrawn with each party bearing its own costs. In addition, Vedanta Resources Limited has committed to the following mutually agreed conditions:

1. investing US$1 billion for capital mine development of KCM;
2. paying US$250 million payment to local creditors;
3. investing US$20 million in robust and transparent corporate social responsibility (CSR) programmes; and
4. increasing workers’ salaries by 20 per cent and making a one-off payment of K2,500 across the board. Additionally, the Government has also enhanced its position by reinstating the golden share in KCM, which will act as a further safeguard in ensuring that the asset is protected.

Madam Speaker, we have no doubt that the return of Vedanta Resources Limited premised on the mutually agreed terms and conditions will unlock mining activities on the Copperbelt, particularly in Chililabombwe and Chingola, and create business opportunities for Zambians and guarantee employment as well as wealth creation for the nation.

Madam Speaker, moving on to MCM, the House may recall that ZCCM-IH took control of it from Glencore in 2021 after an agreeing to pay the Swiss mining company US$1.5 billion in a deal funded by debt. Since then, the Government has been engaging with potential equity partners to take over the operations of the company and due diligence on potential partners is currently being done.

Madam Speaker, let me reiterate that as the Government, we are in a hurry to secure a partner, as that will further reinvigorate economic activity on the Copperbelt as well as contribute towards the attainment of the 3 million metric tonnes copper production target. Once an equity partner has been secured, I will come back to this House and provide an update.

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, let me, once again, thank the Zambian citizenry, in general, and the people of the Copperbelt, in particular, for their patience and unwavering support during the negotiations with Vedanta Resources Limited. As the Government, we are aware of the hardships that our people endured, and we will endeavour to avoid a repeat of the state of affairs at all costs in the future. We wish to commit ourselves to expediting the negotiations on MCM so that the asset is also unlocked to secure jobs and livelihoods for a long time to come.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. Let me put it on record that my party, the Patriotic Front (PF), vehemently objects to the coming back of Vedanta Resources Limited.

Mr Anakoka: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, in 2014, a consortium of non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and other concerned parties protested at the Indian High Commission in London against the evasion of taxes and avoidance of adherence to mining laws by Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc. Such are the things that made the previous Government part ways with Vedanta. Even our current President, on three occasions, has stated that he and the Government were not in a position to bring back Vedanta Resources Limited.

Madam Speaker, the pledges that Vedanta Resources Limited has made this time around are not different from those it made in 2000. Why has the Government brought back the companies despite its bad record against the Zambian people on the Copperbelt?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I will give an example as I answer the question from the hon. Member.

Sometimes, a bad team or coach fails to perform with the same set of players that a good coach performs with, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: Question!

Mr Kabuswe: … and it takes two to tango. There is a good coach now and Vedanta will behave.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Indeed, the people of the Copperbelt and Zambia are interested in seeing how the Vedanta Resources Limited of the United Party for National Development (UPND) will be different from the Vedanta Resources Limited, …

Mr Anakoka: Of the PF! (Patriotic Front)

Mr Mwila: … of the Patriotic Front (PF) era. People are keenly looking forward to seeing the difference.

Madam Speaker, during the Sunday Interview programme on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Television, the hon. Minister stated that Vedanta Resources Limited was not expected to make profits for the next four years. We have also read in the international media that Vedanta, the holding company, is highly indebted and seeking refinancing for the group as a whole. Given these financial challenges that have come to the fore, how is the company going to fulfill the pledges and commitments that have been signed with the people of Zambia?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it is not right to say that I said that Vedanta Resources Limited will not make a profit in four yours. Please, go and listen to the interview again.

Madam Speaker, in responding to the question asked by the hon. Member, when you are dealing with any business person –

Madam Speaker, if there are business people here, in the House, show me the one who has no debt.

Hon. UPND Member: Takwaba!

Mr Kabuswe: What is important is to do your financial due diligence and put conditions in place, and they will make sure they are adhered to. If they do not, then there is a deemed offer that it will trigger, and we will get back the mine.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The hon. Minister and I understand that Vedanta Resources Limited was actually placed under receivership. You may know that from the time that was done, there have been stories of the assets of that mining company being looted by either members of a political party or other Zambians, …

Hon. UPND Member: The liquidator!

Mr Tayengwa: … including the liquidator. What action is the Government going to take against those who were involved in the looting of Vedanta Resources Limited assets?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it is true that there are suspicions of looting having occurred during the time of the provisional liquidation. However, I want to say that there are cases in court concerning the initial provisional liquidator. So, I may not go into the details because I may be cited for contempt.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Most grateful, Madam Speaker.

I have been following the hon. Minister’s pronouncements in the media, trying to inform the nation about the deal the Government has acquired or made available in terms of Vedanta Resources Limited coming back. One point that he keeps making is that the previous Government used to have a relationship with the investor that made the investor not to oblige to some of the laws, such as meeting statutory contributions, because of the relationship that existed between various players in the then Ruling Party. Those are serious observations that he has been making. I would like to know how the New Dawn Government is going to immunise itself from those issues he has been saying led to Vedanta Resources Limited ending up the way it did.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the first thing that governments should do in relation to any investor, not only Vedanta, is follow the rule of law. A Government must respect its own laws and rules. For example, in the mineing sector, we have the Mines and Minerals Act, which stipulates how an investor should behave. There is also the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, through the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), who checks whether tax laws are being adhered to. We have gone further to introduce the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, which checks environmental matters because one of the issues that was hot during Vedanta’s time was the lack of adherence to environmental rules. We have also gone a step further by introducing the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development because, as you may realise, the Mines and Minerals Act provides for the provision of business opportunities to local suppliers and contractors. It is just that we have not been following the law. However, this Government is saying that it is going to respect the law to the letter. Anyone found going to bed with any investor will be dealt with. I think that His Excellency the President has shown the way.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I am alive to the fact that the trade unions in the mining industry petitioned the previous Government to get rid of Vedanta Resources Limited because of the latter’s failure to meet previous investment pledges. Now, the company is pledging to give a 20 per cent salary increment to miners without engaging trade unions. Does the Government not think that by coming up with that 20 per cent increment, the company is trying to undermine the collective bargaining process?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member has been following the discourse on Vedanta Resources Limited, he knows that we are always with the unions. As a matter of fact, KCM employees have not had a salary increment for five years. So, on the table was that offer, and we had to discuss that fact really, they need an immediate salary increment. However, that will not be the end. Now, the door will be opened because reinstatement means that the unions can engage. Previously, unions could not engage because they were nowhere near the assets. Now, they have been reinstated and can negotiate even beyond the 20 per cent. They have the freedom to do that. We have opened the way in the negotiations, and they can go beyond the 20 per cent.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the ministerial statement by the hon. Minister. Just for the purpose of our people listening to us, I must say that this investor, Vedanta Resources Limited, came into this country between 2003 and 2005 after Anglo American Corporation pulled out of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). At that point, it took some undertakings in terms of the obligation that it was going to meet. Further, this is an investor who is known to have gone to the world bragging about how he bought that asset for a song. The records are there, and people have been able access them. The hon. Minister cited the law that the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) used to put KCM into liquidation. This has been a build-up period. The hon. Minister stood there (pointing at Hon. Kabuswe) and assured this august House and no one else that Vedanta Resources Limited had been assessed and found to be a very unreliable investor, and that the Government was not going to consider –

Hon. Kabuswe interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: We can extract the verbatim here.

Madam Speaker, I have looked at the figures that the hon. Minister has given in terms of what Vedanta Resources Limited is now pledging, and there is nothing different. The question that hon. Colleagues are asking is: What is it that this investor is going to do differently? Forget about the player and the team. This investor was brought under the late President Mwanawasa, SC., may his soul rest in peace.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think, we are now going somewhere else. Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, what is your point of clarification? I think, you have made enough opening remarks.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the point of clarification I am raising with the hon. Minister is: What guarantee do we have that he will not come back here and complain about this investor, who has proved to be very unreliable over the period of time that he has been here? He was given the chance to make good on his pledges, but they never came to fruition. As a result, ZCCM-IH had to invoke the provisions that it thought needed to be revoked, and the Patriotic Front (PF) Government supported ZCCM-IH. What guarantee do we have that the hon. Minister will not change, just like he has changed in terms of the position that he gave to this august House?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I want to put it on record that I have never come here to give a statement on this issue. This is the first statement I am giving on the reinstatement of Vedanta Resources Limited.

Ms Sefulo: Correct!

Mr Kabuswe: So, I do not know what the hon. Member is referring to.

Madam Speaker, the guarantee – sometimes, I am tempted to say many things, but I want to avoid that today.

Ms Sefulo: Yes!

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the challenges of Africa and Zambia, in particular, are leadership problems, nothing else. Misbehaviour of investors is highly dependent on the culture that a particular set of leaders have put in place. It takes two to tango. Governments put in place institutions that should be able to check – The behaviour of those institutions is highly dependent on the kind of leadership politicians provide because we are the policy makers. We make policies, but we also make sure that the policies that we make are implemented and adhered to. That is why we are leaders.

Madam Speaker, if an investor sees a particular Government go to bed with it, why should it behave and probably adhere to environmental regulations? Why should it behave and do mine development rather than start trading the way Vedanta Resources Limited was doing? We have agreed, as a team of hon. Ministers, including the hon. Minister of Justice, and put in place conditions that can easily trigger the company’s going out in a smart way because we are a smart Government. So, if Vedanta Resources Limited misbehaves in the very first year, it will trigger what we are calling a deemed offer and it will go in a very smart way with no fighting of provisional liquidation and bringing people to run the mine which would just create a cash cow.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, we are dealing –

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this point of order based on Standing Order No. 65 on the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, who is on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, a good coach offers good lessons to players and players are taught how to manoeuvre and deliver products that are credible. If that player is under a good coach and the good coach ensures that –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Go to your point of order. What rule has been breached? Do not debate.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I am going straight there, straight –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: The straight line seems to be bending.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That was on a lighter note.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, you always provide guidance on a lighter note. So, if that player is under a good coach who provided an environment for that player to select an investor who is ethical, how is it that the hon. Minister was able to select a player who behaved badly, wrongly, fraudulently just because there was bad leadership then?

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to have refused to follow the tutorials of a good coach so as to select a credible investor for Konkola Copper Mines (KCM)?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, I do not see what point of order is there. You were debating and arguing against what the hon. Minister was saying. Definitely, tHAT does not fall under the Standing Order that you have cited, Standing Order No 65. What breach has he committed on the Floor of this House? I think, that is another area. You can use another way to challenge him, but not by way of a point of order. Definitely, listening to you, I did not get the point of order.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, we are dealing with the lives of the people on the Copperbelt and Zambia in general. So, we must be very sober as we deal with this subject. It is not a political subject, and it is important to always refer to history. Vedanta Resources Limited is not a Patriotic Front (PF) Vedanta, it is a Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Vedanta because it came during the reign of the MMD.

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, it is a fact. We need to be right. Hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, the hon. Minister of Finance was then Secretary to the Treasury.

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: Yes, he was the Secretary to the Treasury at the time. Now that the provisions that Vedanta Resources Limited came under are different from the ones in place now, the company has signed an investment pledge of US$1 billion to be fulfilled in five years. The hon. Minister may remember that the late President, Mr Michael Sata, rose on the premise of condemning the way Vedanta Resources Limited was treating the workers in Chingola and Chililabombwe, where the hon. Minister had served as Mayor for the PF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Chitotela: Now, bearing in mind that the Vedanta Resources Limited that he and I condemned during our days in the Opposition –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us not try to go far in the history of what happened. I tried to be accommodative, but it appears that people are drifting back to the past, and I know that going back always has a negative impact on the manner in which our debate flows. So, hon. Member for Pambashe, please, raise your point of clarification.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, bearing in mind that we have a new Vedanta Resources Limited that has promised, like it promised during the MMD days, a US$1 billion investment in five years, which it did not fulfil in the past. The late President Michael Sata condemned it, and when we formed Government in 2011, we formed a technical committee to review that. The same US$1 billion was not fulfilled. What are the safeguard measures that the ministry has put in place for the people of Chililabombwe, the Copperbelt and Zambians so that if the company fails to fulfil the US$1 billion investment pledge for the period of five years, the Government can say, “bwana investor, you committed to invest US$1 billion in five years. That means US$200 million per year, but you have failed. So, you need to exit.” Has the ministry put in place measures to protect the Government and Zambian workers?

Madam Speaker: Although that question was answered, the hon. Minister can attempt, again, to explain.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I think, it is a way of people trying to justify things that happened in the past by preaching before they ask questions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I think, I explained on the Floor that we have put in trigger points, one of which is funding. Immediately the company fails to invest in the first year, it triggers a deemed offer and it is gone. The hon. Members will see that document within the first year. We are saying that as they walk on the mines – in fact let me say this, maybe, for the benefit of the miners out there who are listening to me. Immediately we sign the implementation and shareholder's agreement, the provisional liquidator is out, and the shareholders and the board are back, Vedanta Resources Limited will come in with the first payment for all local creditors. That will be immediate. There will be no waiting.

Secondly, the US$20 million for CSR must be in the bank before the steps on the mine premises. Thirdly, the company’s K2500 across the board salary increment must be effected immediately. That is one of the conditions. So, literally, Vedanta Resources Limited will be walking into the mine with bags of money. That is the agreement.

Rev Katuta: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the second condition is the funding. We are saying that before Vedanta Resources Limited starts anything, there must be money and guarantees in the bank before they step on the mine. One of the things that we did, and that is why it took us so long – If we were careless, we could have made a decision immediately those things were on the table. We did what we called a technical due diligence and financial due diligence with an independent body that ascertained what money would be needed each year, and that report is available; it is in the agreement and it is legally binding. This means that if the money does not come in, the deemed offer is triggered.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I think, the concern of the hon. Members are those bags of money. Are we going to see dollars flying all over or will the money go in the bank?

Laughter

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, that was just on a lighter note. The money will go to the bank.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana) Madam Speaker, –

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Welcome back!

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, it is not me today.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let us allow the hon. Member to ask his question.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, first of all, I feel that it is unfair that the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development had to combine two issues. You may have noticed that the issue of Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) has completely been overshadowed. My biggest interest is the issue of MCM. Not long ago, the hon. Minister mentioned to the country that the Government was going to make two grand announcements on Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and the resolution of the MCM issue. Remember, it has been two years, and our people are in anguish because they have been thrown into chaos. When is the hon. Minister going to make the announcement on MCM?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for this question. I was expecting Hon. B. Mpundu to be one of the first ask and when questions were being asked, I thought that, maybe, today, he was dozing because he does not let the issues on mining pass by.

Madam Speaker, MCM is less of a complicated asset, but we want to find the best partner for ourselves. One of the things that has made the discussions a bit protracted is the way the shareholding will be structured. However, what I can assure the hon. Member is that where we have reached now, if I were to give an analogy, it would be that the meal is on the table and we are just waiting to call the people to come and eat. That is where we are.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker:  Thank you very much. I have added five more minutes.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask a question.

The challenge the mining industry has in this country is that after privatisation, we were removed from actively participating in governance and decision-making because the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) became a minority shareholder. Why did the Government not find it prudent during this time of negotiations with Vedanta Resources Limited to increase the shareholding of ZCCM-IH so that the Government can begin to actively participate in the decision-making process?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the question. I agree, and I think that going forward, this is what this Government is doing. As a matter of fact, we just declared all the minerals in Zambia strategic. I think, the Cabinet passed that, meaning that participation of the Government in all the minerals in Zambia will now be enhanced. That is a big thing. We have listed all the mineral, including copper and sugilite. The Government will be taking a significant stake going forward. We are not rocking the boat or that we will go in retrospect because, then, we will disturb many things. However, going forward, that is how we are going to do things. I want to assure you and the hon. Member that there are many tournaments that this Government will participate in and benefit from and, through this Government, the people of Zambia will benefit.

Madam Speaker, in terms of the KCM deal, it was a reinstatement of an old investor with the way the shareholding was. ZCCM-IH has a leeway even now to begin to renegotiate with Vedanta Resources Limited to increase its stake on certain conditions, and that has not been closed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, previously, the same company –

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi, oh, Mwembezhi, sorry.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, have you already forgotten me? How?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: My mind was with my sister, Mutinta.

Mr Jamba: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. He knows that Nampundwe Mine is part of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc. This is where we are coming from in my constituency.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Yes, the breach is on Standing Order No. 65.

Is he in order to just talk on KCM without explaining to the people of Nampundwe whether Nampundwe Mine is going to be part of KCM and Chingola?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, that is a point of clarification. It does not qualify as a point of order. I notice, you are not featuring on the list here. So, cleverly, you wanted to put in a point of order.

May the hon. Member for Chipili continue. When the hon. Minister answers the question from the hon. Member for Chipili, he can combine the answer with the one for the hon. Member for Mwembezhi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, previously, the company used to concentrate on refining; getting copper ore from other mines instead of mining within its premises. What measures has the Government put in place concerning that? We have the target that the Government has set. What measure has the Government put in place to ensure that the same company continues producing copper within its premises?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, let me clarify to the hon. Member for Mwembezhi that KCM is Nampundwe, Nkana, Nchanga and Konkola. So, the people of Nampundwe should rest assured that they are very much part of the deal.

Madam Speaker, with regards to the question by the hon. Member for Chipili, what we have done in the agreement is that the emphasis has been put on what is known as the Konkola Deep Mining Project (KDMP), which is central to the agreement because it is the future of KCM. He is right in saying that at some point, development was stopped and, therefore, the smelter could not have enough feed stock. That is why the company started working like it was trading. We are going to watch the space and make sure that the development of KDMP is priority number one.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Time runs so fast. I will use my discretion and allow hon. Members from the Copperbelt. I am sure, their representatives want information. They can ask on behalf of their clients. I do not know, is Bwacha KCM also?

Hon. Members: No!

Madam Speaker: No, no. I can see the hon. Member for Chimwemwe. He may ask his question.

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, most contractors and suppliers are small scale. Most of them actually got loans from the banks, and they have been charged high interest because they were under the impression that Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) was going to pay them. So, is Vedanta Resources Limited going to pay them the interest or, perhaps, the Government has other plans to help them with running capital? Most of them will not have any capital.

Madam Speaker: I hope, the hon. Minister got that.

Laughter

Hon. Member: Ba Lechwe aba.

Mr Kabuswe: Bale slang’a.

Madam Speaker, I have just said that he is speaking slang.

I thank the hon. Member for Chimwemwe for the question. All I know, and the assurance I will give to our local suppliers and contractors, is that they will be paid fully. Whether it is with interest or not, those are details. The assurance I can give our local suppliers and contractors is continued business dealings with KCM.

Madam Speaker, in the agreement, supplier-contractor development is one of the checks. So, we will be checking that because it is in the agreement, which is legally binding. Actually, as a Government, we are working on a local content law to promote participation by Zambians by creating a ceiling on business levels that can be reserved for Zambian suppliers and contractors.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I want to agree with the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development that Vedanta Resources Limited under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was, indeed, different from Vedanta Resources Limited under the Patriotic Front (PF). I am a Copperbelt resident, and I saw how Vedanta Resources Limited was an employee’s choice during the MMD days.

Madam Speaking, all these problems in the mining sector, I think, are due to the lack of a regulating board. We have the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) in the energy sector. In the mining sector, we need a mineral regulating authority to ensure that there is adherence. Is the hon. Minister considering introducing a mineral regulating authority to ensure that all investors, not just Vedanta Resources Limited, adhere to the regulations being set so that the Zambian people are protected?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member. He should have emphasised that. Truly, I remember the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) days. I used to be a supplier to the mines, and the Vedanta Resources Limited in the MMD was actually an employer of choice.

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: Everyone has a history. We will also tell you how you were hanging people.

Madam Speaker, –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kabuswe: I withdraw that, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela interjected.

Madam Speaker: Okay. Hon. Member for Pambashe, please restrain yourself.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, thank you. I need protection because everyone has a history and skeletons in their wardrobes.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I know that the differences in the MMD Vedanta Resources Limited, the PF Vedanta Resources Limited and, now, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Vedanta will be seen clearly. I want to assure the hon. Member that he will not see the Vedanta Resources Limited of the PF in the UPND because we are very advanced in putting across –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I raise this point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(b).

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister on the Floor presented a ministerial statement and in that statement, he talked about the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) and how it partnered with Vedanta Resources Limited. There was no statement he made during that presentation which pointed to the Patriotic Front (PF) Vedanta. As a Government Minister, who is supposed to present policy matters that are non-political, is he in order to create another entity called the PF Vedanta?

Madam Speaker, we need to be clear. This is an august House where we present facts and verifiable information for the members of the public we represent here. Is the hon. Member in order to create another entity he did not speak about in his statement?

I seek your serious guidance.

Madam Speaker: I was listening very attentively to the questions and answers. True, when the hon. Minister gave his ministerial statement, he did not mention a Patriotic Front (PF), the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) or the United Party for National Development (UPND) Vedanta. It is the hon. Members who did that as they were asking questions. They started naming Vedanta in different forms. Some said the UPND Vedanta, the PF Vedanta and the MMD Vedanta. So, the hon. Minister was reacting to that. Even the hon. Member for Kankoyo, the question that he asked was also on those lines. The hon. Minister was reacting to those questions. So, the hon. Minister is in order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, did you conclude answering?

Mr Kabuswe: No, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we answer and ask questions, let us keep away from these historical issues that tend to bring acrimony in the House. Let us just talk about the current issues as they are.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, to answer the hon. Member for Kankoyo, yes, it is true that we need regulation in the mining sector. As the New Dawn Government, we are advanced. Actually, the Cabinet has approved the Mines and Minerals Commission Act, which will be presented to this House as a Bill. When it is passed, then, we begin implementation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I said that, I was giving hon. Members from the Copperbelt an opportunity to ask questions. Time is running out, and I still have two more. There is the hon. Member for Kabushi and the hon. Member for Kwacha. We will start with the hon. Member for Kabushi.

Mr Kanengo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to represent the people of Kabushi and the Copperbelt.

Madam Speaker, as I was seated, I received some text messages from the Copperbelt saying that the hon. Minister has confidently said that the miners in Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) will receive a 20 per cent increment. On the other hand, they will also receive a K2,500 across the board.

Madam Speaker, in the mining sector, it is not only the mines that employ people who work in the mines. There are those who are employed by the contractor. Did the hon. Minister also ensure that those who are employed by contractors will also be taken care of in terms of remuneration?

Hon. Mpundu: Ema Bowman aya.

Madam Speaker: Order!

At this rate, the hon. Minister will have to take consideration of all Zambians. That was on a lighter note.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, even though it is on a lighter note, you are right. I thank the hon. Member for this question, which has come to me several times. Let me answer it this way: KCM has direct employees. A contractor is an employee of KCM who is told to bring other people with him. So, the contractors who are now contracted by KCM can also follow suit and increase the salaries for workers. KCM cannot begin to increase monies for contractors because the contracts are not between KCM and employees. So, basically, it is only direct employees who are covered. However, this is an issue that contractors can raise and look at and see how they can accommodate their workers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Kwacha Constituency to –

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kwacha, there is a point of order from your neighbour.

Hon. Member for Mitete, what is your point of order?

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I am totally sorry to my neighbour. I am raising a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(1) (a) and (b). Is the hon. Minister in order not to tell the House, and through the House, the nation that it is better not to mine in court but at the mine; to mine on site? Is the hon. Minister in order not to explain such on this very topical subject?

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

Madam Speaker: In the ministerial statement that the hon. Minister delivered, he did allude to the fact that it was prudent for Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) not to continue with the litigation, but to discuss and go back to the mines. So, what you are saying, the hon. Minister has already said. Therefore, he was totally in order.

May the hon. Member for Kwacha continue.

Mr Charles Mulenga: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Kwacha to pose a supplementary question to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. However, before I ask my question, let me take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Minister the entire United Party for National Development (UPND) New Dawn Government on concluding the negations to allow Vedanta Resources Limited to come on board. This, of course, has elated the people on the Copperbelt. The hon. Minister should not worry about the criticisms that may come because the 2.8 million, which has swelled now to 5.8 million, are behind this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Charles Mulenga: Madam Speaker, my interest is on the creation of new jobs by Vedanta Resources Limited, especially for our youths who have graduated from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) skills development. Many have acquired mining related skills, such as heavy-duty repair works, metal fabrication as well as machine fitting. Does the hon. Minister know how many jobs Vedanta Resources Limited is earmarked to create, now that it has come back?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question, words of encouragement and congratulations to the New Dawn Government.

Madam Speaker, in terms of the workers, I do not know the numbers. Suffice it for me to say that these are exciting times because I think that at some point, as a country, we stopped training craftsmen and artisans. This time, for you to find a plumber or a craftsman, it is a very difficult undertaking but now, through the ingeniousness of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the new coach, we are now able to train people. So, in terms of numbers, I am not very sure but, I think, jobs will be created.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chinsali, just bear with me, please. Can we get through this issue and finish? I have even extended the allotted time.

Mr Mukosa indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: Yes, thank you for understanding.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, thank you for recognising the people of the rural part of the Copperbelt Province, Masaiti in particular.

Madam Speaker, while selecting Vedanta Resources Limited, the hon. Minister had other firms that had made the shortlist. So, we are interested to learn who the investors were.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question.

The asset was encumbered; it had issues in court. So, nobody was interested in being shortlisted for an asset that was fighting in court. That is why when we got out of court, we had to reinstate the status quo. It is now time for negotiations. If they had said they were walking away, we were going to invite other bidders to come and run the mine. However, there was no such thing. So, it was a negotiation to reinstate the status quo.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I think, we have spent a lot of time on this matter because of public interest in it. That is why I allowed it to have more time. So, in the next segment, which is Questions for Oral Answer, we will go very fast.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

KILOWATTS OF POWER EXPORTED BY ZESCO SINCE JULY 2023

19. Mr Emmanuel Musonda (Lupososhi) asked the Minister of Energy how many kilowatts of power Zesco Limited was exporting, as of July, 2023, following the commissioning of the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station was commissioned in March, 2023. From March to July, 2023, Zesco Limited exported a total of 1,460,821,408 MW/h. Maybe, I should add to which areas the power was sent.

          Buyer                                                                  Kwh

            Nampower (kWh)                                               613,213,966

            SNEL (kWh)                                                      296,191,042

            BPC (kWh)                                                         348,299,000

            ZESA (kWh)                                                          40,800,000

            ZIMPLATS (kWh)                                              141,551,000

            via SAPP Market (kWh)                                       21,766,400

            Total                                                                1,460,821,408

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Emmanuel Musonda: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer.

Zesco Limited is failing to provide the local market with power. Examples are Lupososhi Constituency and Luwingu District. The Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has failed to provide grid extensions to unserved areas, and the reason given is that there is not enough capacity at the sub-station. So, why is it that the ministry can consider other countries before satisfying the local market, who are the taxpayers of Zambia?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, it is not a question of failing. It is a question of planning and ensuring that the resources are at hand.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses. May he kindly share with this august House the timings of power exports? The story out there is that the Government is exporting power to neighbouring countries while loadshedding parts of this country. Is the Government exporting power during peak hours or when there is low demand? I am alive to the fact that Zesco Limited has signed some power purchase agreements with our neighbouring countries. Is the Government choosing to give power to foreign countries and load-sheding us here?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Chibombwe for his question.

Madam Speaker, I am not aware that there is any loadshedding in the country, but I can confirm that, yes, Zesco Limited is still exporting power based on the contracts that it entered into previously.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasandwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Member for Bangweulu, what is your point of order?

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

The hon. Minister has just made the sweeping statement that there is no loadshedding in Zambia. In Samfya District, where Bangweulu Constituency is, we have been experiencing loadshedding for the past two weeks. Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this country by saying that there is no loadshedding?

Madam Speaker: It is difficult for me to state whether the hon. Minister is being truthful in saying that there is no load shedding because the hon. Member for Bangweulu has not stated the reasons there is no power in Samfya; whether it is because of loadshedding or maintenance works. It is very difficult to say. So, the hon. Minister is not out of order.

Can we make progress.

Ms Munashabantu (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has spoken of existing contracts. However, a new power plant was commissioned. So, are we going to have new connections in our nation, especially in Mapatizya, where we need power because we are growing the mining sector? Nothing is changing. As far as I am concerned, the capacity is there. What plans are there? Are we going to put up new plants or increase the capacity of the existing ones so that we can satisfy the growing demand locally?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, from what I can deduce from what the hon. Member is asking, I think, she is mixing two things, namely connections and power availability. If it is connections, it is an issue that we can look at together. She can come to the office so that we see what the problems are in Mapatizya.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Allen Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, climate change is there. Does the hon. Minister have any plans to balance power exports with the needs of the citizens in case the water supply reduces and we experience loadshedding?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, it is true that climate change is there. Yes, I can confirm that the rainfall in the 2022/2023 Rainy Season was not adequate even though there were flash floods. We have put in place plans to ensure that there is no disruption to the power generation. We do not want to see a repeat of what happened last December.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to advise the House regarding how much was realised from the sales that Zesco Limited made?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, from the sales, Zesco Limited brought in US$154 million.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta indicated.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kankoyo, I am only allowing this because the hon. Minister is very efficient. Otherwise, we would have moved to the next question. So, I will exhaust the list of hon. Members who have indicated to ask questions. I have three more hon. Members on the list.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, during the loadshedding we had last year, the Government had entered into an agreement with the Republic of Mozambique for our Government to import power from that country. I would like to find out from him whether the contract is still in existence so that in case we have a shortfall of electricity towards the end of the year, we shall not experience loadshedding, as we would have a backup plan or plan ‘B’.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, fortunately, I was anticipating this question.

Madam Speaker, currently, Zesco Limited has two contracts with Mozambique, and I can confirm that the country is importing power from Mozambique.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, in seeking clarification, I would like to know from the hon. Minister how much power we are currently generating in terms megawatts and, against that, what the national consumption demand is. The hon. Minister has already shared with us that the Government is exporting more than 1,000 MW of power, which he broke down. So, could the hon. Minister just make us understand how much power we are generating and out of that, what is the national consumption demand so that we are well informed.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not have the actual figures. However, what I know is that we are importing 50 MW thermal power during off peak periods and an additional 200 MW thermal power thereafter. This means that we expect to ensure that production and transmission will meet the demands of the country. It has nothing to do with the figures that the hon. Member is thinking; that we are exporting much of our electricity. We are just importing the balance that is required.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I can see that the hon. Member for Lupososhi has withdrawn. Has he?

Mr Emmanuel Musonda indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Chienge.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, let us allow the hon. Member, –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: What is the point of order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu? We need to make progress.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the question I asked the hon. Minister was very specific, and it will help for the hon. Minister to address the issues that have been raised; whether we are having loadshedding or not. I know the hon. Minister as an engineer. So, he has the figures. I would like to know how much generation capacity we are getting out of all our generating facilities. Further, I asked, against that, what the national demand is in terms of megawatts, but what he is telling us is what the Government is importing. So, that is separate information and not what I was soliciting for. I want to know how many megawatts we are generating and, against that capacity, how much are we utilising as a nation after the Government exports more than 1,000 MW. That was my question. I did not ask for the figures concerning imports.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: First of all, the hon. Member asked two questions in one. Secondly, when the hon. Minister started answering the question, he said that he did not have those figures at hand. So, he gave the information he was aware of. However, the hon. Minister is here, and, maybe, he can explain.

There was a question from the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, and he is saying that you have not answered his question, hon. Minister. How many megawatts of power are you producing?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the installed capacity is over 3,000 MW. So, we normally produce about 2,900 MW somewhere thereabout. I do not have the exact figures of how much we currently produce to give to the hon. Member of Parliament. However, the accurate figures I have indicate that we currently import a maximum of 200 MW from Mozambique and that there is no loadshedding. If there will be any loadshedding, I will come back to this House and announce that, but we are trying our level best to ensure that before effecting it, we do not have a repeat of what happened in December, last year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, if you are not very clear, you can still ask the hon. Minister to give further details.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, firstly, allow me to congratulate those who got awards.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister may say that there is no loadshedding. I do not know if you can allow me to show him all the complaints that I have been sending to Zesco Limited. Even last night, I deliberately went live on Facebook in the dark to show the world that we are having this challenge every day. We have hours when we are load shed. So, I would like to know why the hon. Minister would insist that there is no loadshedding when this has been going on for the past two weeks. Further, I would like to know why we have to export and import when we are depriving the locals of what they should get in Zambia?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I think, we need to differentiate political statements and terms from technical statements. There is a big different between load shedding and technical faults. Probably, what is happening in Chienge are technical faults, and the hon. Member cannot put that down to loadshedding. At the same time, I mentioned that we export power due to running contracts that Zesco Limited entered into with foreign countries.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member is saying that she was referring to Chamba Valley. Is there any load shedding in Chamba Valley? Hon. Minister, I did not hear you on that.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, there is no load shedding in the country. As I stated earlier, I will come back to the House and say it should that situation arise.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.

CONSTRUCTION OF DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE BLOCK IN KALUMBILA DISTRICT

20. Mr Mukumbi (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)        when the Government will construct the District Administration Office Block in Kalumbila District; and

(b)        whether the office block will accommodate all Government departments in the district.

The Minister Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.) (on behalf of the Minister of Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct a District Administration office block in Kalumbila District. However, due to limited fiscal space, the Government is currently focusing on completing on-going projects in new districts, starting with those that are at 80 per cent and above. Once the on-going projects are completed, the Kalumbila District Administration Office Block will be considered.

Madam, all government departments will be accommodated once the district administration office block is constructed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Solwezi West, do you have any supplementary questions?

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, I am a little paralysed.

Madam Speaker, Kalumbila District was created in 2015. To date, the District Commissioner (DC) lives about 35 km from the Central Business District (CBD), which is the civic centre. Government departments are renting from individuals, and they are scattered everywhere. Do we see any hope, probably, next year or in two years, of having all Government departments in one defined CBD for the effective delivery of Government policies? May he, please, give us hope.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, as stated in the response, the hope is in the fact that the plans are in place. We do commiserate, as the Government, with the situation that the district finds itself in. However, we would also like to appeal for a little patience, given the situation that the country finds itself in, in terms of the fiscal environment. We are committed to ensuring that all the districts ultimately benefit from the vision of improving the welfare of our people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Solwezi West Constituency, do you have any other question?

Mr Mukumbi: Madam Speaker, I do not have.

Madam Speaker: Alright.

For the sake of catching up on time, hon. Members, can we move to the next question.

COMMENCEMENT OF PHASE II OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF MICHAEL CHILUFYA SATA HOSPITAL IN MPIKA

21. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when the construction of Phase II of the Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital in Mpika District will commence; and
2. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is.

Mr Samakayi rose and went to sit next to Dr Mwanza.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, are you visiting?

Hon. PF Members: He is visiting.

Madam Speaker: Alright, he is visiting his neighbours.

Mr Haimbe, SC. (on behalf of Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of Phase II of Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital in Mpika District commenced in 2015. The project, which stalled due to funding constraints will resume in the fourth quarter of 2023 and is expected to be completed by the end of the first quarter of 2024.

Madam Speaker, as stated above, the cause of the delay in completing the project has been la ack of funds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, let me just appeal that the completion be done as soon as possible, as it is a very serious challenge that the population of our district. Mpika, which is at 149,000, cannot use facility, which is supposed to serve the community as a referral hospital.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. That was an appeal. I am sure, the hon. Minister has got it.

We make progress. Hon. Acting Minister, do you want to respond?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, without taking too much time, let me say the appeal is duly noted and by way of reassurance to the people of Mpika, I would like to inform the hon. Member that, in fact, negotiations for a new contract price in view of currency fluctuations have been completed and that I am aware that the addendum to the contract is with the Ministry of Justice for approval.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

FAILURE OF CHIENGE CONSTITUENTS TO REGISTER CO-OPERATIVES ELECTRONICALLY

22. Rev. Katuta asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government is aware that people in Chienge Parliamentary Constituency are encountering challenges in registering co-operatives through the (Electronic Platform (e-platform) due to poor Internet connectivity, thereby preventing them from applying for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and other empowerment programmes;

1. if so, what measures are being taken to resolve the problem; and

1. whether the Government will consider reverting to the manual registration system in areas with poor Internet service.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu) (on behalf of the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, indeed, the Government is aware that there is poor Internet connectivity in Chienge and in many other rural areas, and this creates challenges in accessing Government services provided through the Internet, such as the registration of co-operatives.

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Technology and Science and other relevant institutions, is working on improving Internet connectivity countrywide in line with the National Electronic Government Plan (NEGP) 2023-2026. The Government is also deploying alternative technologies for last-mile connectivity, including satellite technologies, as well as issuing licenses to operators. Indeed, the Government’s plan is to promote the deployment of these technologies to unserved and underserved areas across the country including Chienge.

Madam Speaker, I have been informed by the relevant departments that the Government has no plans to revert to the manual system of registering co-operatives. With regard to the registration of co-operatives in Chienge, in the interim, people can see the District Co-operative Officer who will facilitate their registration and enable them to benefit from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has advised people to see the District Co-operative Officer who will facilitate the registration of co-operatives. I just want to bring to your attention the fact that people have done that, but they have been charged a lot of money. The people in Chienge are poor, and that is why I have brought up this question. They cannot afford the K3,000. Others are charged K2,500 to register. Is there a way that the Government can make sure that the District Co-operative Officer or whoever is in charge charges exactly what is being charged at the head office, the K350, and in terms of the other amounts? It is quite difficult for the people to access the services, and they are missing out on applying for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). May I make the earnest appeal that we have many co-operatives registered.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, thank you, and I would also like to thank my good friend, Hon. Rev. Katuta, for this question.

Madam Speaker, as you heard, it is an appeal for us to ensure that our people find it easy to form co-operatives, and we will take the appeal on board. Maybe, I should also encourage the hon. Member of Parliament to visit our offices, because I was informed that areas in constituencies where our hon. Members of Parliament are finding difficulties helping our people, officers from the ministry will be sent to help.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, poor Internet connectivity is not only a challenge in Chienge, but also in many other rural areas that are below 50 per cent coverage where internet connectivity is concerned. I am sure, it is the same in Nangoma. What is the ministry doing to phase the implementation of rural Internet connectivity? If the implementation is not phased in line with the Ministry of Technology and Science, which is rolling out the connectivity, it will continue to pose a challenge for our people in Chienge and many other rural areas where Internet connectivity, as I have said, is still below 50 per cent.

Madam, how does the ministry intend to schedule the rolling out of Electronic Platforms (e-platforms) in rural areas so that many people are not disadvantaged? If the ministry does not do so, the risk is that the officers on the ground will be demanding something from our people. As you know, the problem is not only poor Internet connectivity, but also low literacy levels, unlike in the urban areas, in most of our communities. What is practically being done to ensure that our people are not disadvantaged? Further, how is the implementation of the e-platform going to be scheduled?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, Internet connectivity is key to ensuring economic development in the country. The Minister of Technology and Science, Hon. Mutati, I think, has come several times, to the Floor of the House to tell us how quickly he is rolling out towers and how he wants to improve connectivity. In fact, he also has a plan called the National Electronic Government Plan (NEGP) from this year to 2026 because this Government recognises the fact that without proper connectivity and information going across various areas of the country, economic development cannot be measured well and enhanced. Indeed, Hon. Mutati has also come to the House to engage hon. Members and to update them on what he is doing in this area. So, I assure Hon. Kampyongo and, through him, other hon. Members of Parliament that this Government will do everything possible to ensure that connectivity is enhanced, and that has started. The aim is that by 2026, the country will be fully connected.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the great people of Lundazi an opportunity to ask a supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, our people in rural areas like Chienge and Lundazi are charged even to register for a Taxpayer Identification Number (TPIN). They pay quite colossal sums of money for something that should be free of charge. The question that I have for the Acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is: The ministry has introduced the registration of clubs at the city council. Is it possible that the certificates they get can be used to access things such as farming inputs.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I may not have all the information on the registration of clubs at the city council. I would ask the substantive hon. Minister to provide the hon. Member with a specific answer when he comes back to the House.

Madam Speaker, as regards the charging of certain fees for providing these services, I can confidently say that as a fellow Member of Parliament, some of our people are engaged in illegal activities. This is happening in my constituency, too. Two weeks ago, we apprehended two of our people who were charging colossal sums of money to help others register. As it is an illegal activity, I would encourage the hon. Member of Parliament to she take such people to the police so that they stop these illegalities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu indicated.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nyimba, you had withdrawn. Sorry, unfortunately, I have moved on.

CONSTRUCTION OF MORTUARY AT SINDA HEALTH CENTRE

23. Mr Lungu (Kapoche) asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a mortuary at Sinda Health Centre in Sinda District;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented;

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Sinda Health Centre to a district hospital; and

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a mortuary at Sinda Health Centre. The House may wish to note that Sinda District is currently serviced by a functional mortuary located at Nyanje Mission Hospital in Sinda District.

Madam Speaker, as stated under (a), the Government has no immediate plans to construct a mortuary at Sinda Health Centre. Therefore, part (b) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Sinda Health Centre to a district hospital. The House may wish to note that the focus of the Government is on completing on-going projects, such as the thirty-six district hospitals countrywide, the construction of 650 health posts countrywide and the implementation of the Presidential directive for constructing maternity wings at all health centres across the country, including sanitation facilities and power sources, and ensuring the availability of essential medicines in health centres and health posts countrywide.

Madam Speaker, as stated earlier, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Sinda Health Centre to a district hospital. Therefore, part (d) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lungu: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me and the people of Kapoche this chance in this honourable House. I thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, for sure, in Sinda District, we have Nyanje Mission Hospital. If you went to Nyanje Mission Hospital today, however, you would feel sorry for the people of Kapoche and Sinda because Nyanje Hospital is a mission hospital. As I am talking to you, there are two or three foreign doctors. Although Zambian doctors are posted there, they do not stay because the houses are uninhabitable. Our desire is to work with the Government and the hon. Minister to work for our people. What happens in Sinda is that when someone dies, we take the body to Nyanje Mission Hospital, which is about 25 km from Sinda. The road is so dilapidated that our people are charged a lot of money. Further, the nearest hospital is in Katete, which is about 30 km away. So, either way, our people suffer a lot, and we would like the Government to come to our aid, especially for the people of Kapoche, because they have suffered a lot.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Sinda Zone Mission to a hospital. When does she think the Government can have the money? As for the mortuary, what does she think the immediate solution can be for our people in Kapoche?

Mr B. Mpundu: Naupya!

Madam Speaker: There are two questions there. Hon. Minister of Health, please, there is an appeal also.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I feel the hon. Member’s pain, except I must say that this is why when you ask a question – If you noted, the hon. Member was asking about plans and the response was, “immediate”, meaning in ‘this year’s Budget’. You will appreciate that every year, we budget for the construction of infrastructure, and the plan would indicate what it is for. For example, we would say that this year, we are constructing, maybe, twenty level-one hospitals particular places where they would be allocated. It is in that regard I answered the hon. Member’s question by saying that for this year, there are no immediate plans to construct a level-one hospital.

Madam Speaker, I want hon. Members to appreciate that in Zambia, mission hospitals provide services just as if they were Government hospitals. In some cases, you will find that they provide even better quality health services to our people. In that regard, the Government provides partial funding to the health facilities run as mission hospitals. I have always said that the workers in mission hospitals are on the Government payroll and when we buy drugs, we share with them as we do with any other any other facility. I note that hon. Members normally say their area has no level-one hospital and that the ones that are there are mission hospitals. I think, that distinction does not really give the correct picture, and it does not help.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member’s situation because I know for a fact that although the level-one hospital is I think, about 22 km away, but the road, currently, is in a deplorable condition. So, obviously, it is becoming difficult. We hope that the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will target such roads which lead to health facilities or schools, just to help the communities. Otherwise, 22 km is a very short distance if the road is good. Now, the Government is desirous to build infrastructure throughout Zambia because our aim is to take healthcare as close to the community as possible. That is our intention, but we can only do that within the budgetary allocation that we get.

Madam Speaker, I want to inform hon. Members, through this follow-up question, that there were thirty-six district hospitals that were being constructed and, I think, those have taken over ten years. I did indicate that priority for the Government was on completing that infrastructure. Otherwise, we would be losing resources, as a country. Out of the thirty-six district hospitals, I am happy to report that four have been completed. We have another eight or so that we hope to complete before the end of the year. If we do not, maybe, that will be done in the first part of next year. Once we finish those thirty-six, then, we will have another bunch, and it is at that time that the Government will look at which district is in dire need of a level-one hospital. Suffice it for me to say that there are also new districts that were created and do not have anything. Then we also have very old districts, such as Nyimba, where the Government did not construct any health facilities. I think, in their planning, successive Governments thought that those, at least, had health facilities that were being called mission facilities. So, it is the Government’s intention to ensure that all the districts have health facilities.

Madam Speaker, I am hopeful that before the end of five years, the Government will finish all the district hospitals that are outstanding. That is our desire, subject to the availability of resources. So, the hon. Member should not feel discouraged.

Madam Speaker, the second question was: What then should we do? I think that what we should do is ensure that that road is graded so that people do not have to suffer. The second thing is the issue of providing ambulances to ease the movement of our people when they are sick and need to be rushed to the hospital, and a hearse to carry our beloved deceased family members or friends. Now that we have the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and the community can make a local decision if a mortuary is so important for them, they can build one and we will support them. However, for this year, the Government has no plans for that particular health centre to be upgraded, let alone to construct a mortuary.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: With that long answer, I know matters of health always attract many questions, but we need to make progress.

Hon. Member for Kapoche, please, engage the hon. Minister. There is also that window available. You could use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Please, explore those possibilities so that you address the concerns you have for your constituency.

_______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE ZAMBIAN DELEGATION TO THE 63^RD SESSION OF THE ORGANISATION OF AFRICAN, CARIBBEAN AND PACIFIC STATES AND THE 43^RD SESSION OF THE AFRICAN, CARIBBEAN AND PACIFIC STATES, AND EUROPEAN UNION JOINT PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 63^rd Session of the Organisation of African, Caribbean and Pacific States (OACPS), and the 43^rd Session of the African, Caribbean and Pacific States and European Union Joint Parliamentary Assembly (ACP-EU JPA), which was held from 19^th to 28^th June, 2023, in Brussels, Belgium.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): I beg to second the Motion, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Order No. 146 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 2021, I rise to give a statement on Zambia’s participation in the aforementioned meetings.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members may wish to note that this is the first time that the report of the OACPS Parliamentary Assembly and the ACP-EU JPA is being tabled on the Floor of the House. In this regard, allow me to begin with a brief background of the OACPS and the ACP-EU JPA.

Madam Speaker, the OACPS, formerly known as the African, Caribbean and Pacific (ACP) Group of States, is an organisation that was created by the Georgetown Agreement in 1975 with the objective of promoting trade, political, economic and social co-operation among member states. It is composed of seventy-nine African, Caribbean and Pacific states; forty-seven from Sub-Saharan Africa, sixteen from the Caribbean, one from South Asia and fifteen from the Pacific. On the other hand, the ACP-EU JPA was created after the coming into force of the Cotonou Agreement in 2000, which aims to strengthen the capacity of the EU and the ACP countries to address global challenges together. A substantial part of the work of the JPA is directed towards promoting human rights and democracy as well as common values of humanity between the OACPS and EU partners. This has produced joint commitments undertaken within the framework of ACP-EU co-operation. The agreement was for a period of twenty years. However, it has been regularly extended pending the signing of a new partnership agreement.

Madam Speaker, I am happy to report that the Zambian delegation successfully participated in the 63^rd Session of the OACPS Parliamentary Assembly and the 43^rd Session of the ACP-EU JPA. The delegation comprised the following:

Ms Sibeso K Sefulo, MP – Zambia’s substantive representative to the ACP-EU JPA and Leader of Delegation;

Mr Jeffrey Mulebwa, MP;

Mr Binwell Mpundu, MP;

Mr Davies Chisopa, MP;

Mr Stephen C. Kawimbe, Deputy Clerk – Corporate Affairs

Mrs Mwanza Aggie K Mumbi, Senior Research Officer and ACP-EU JPA Desk Officer.

In addition, the delegation was supported by staff from the Zambian Embassy in Brussels, led by His Excellency Mr Sylvester Mundanda, Ambassador of the Republic of Zambia to the Benelux Economic Union and the EU.

Madam Speaker, it is my sincere hope that hon. Members have already perused the report. I will, therefore, just highlight the salient issues contained in the report.

Madam Speaker, I would like to report that the OACPS and ACP-EU Parliamentary Assemblies deliberated on various issues of interest, which included:

1. the use of artificial intelligence (AI) for international peace and security;

1. three keynote debates without resolution on critical raw materials, energy transition and climate change in EU-ACP co-operation;

1. the humanitarian and political situation in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the conflict in Sudan; and

1. the Neighbourhood, Development and International Co-operation Instrument – Global Europe (NDICI) – Global Europe

Madam Speaker, due to time constraints, allow me to make a few comments on the issue of critical raw materials,which attracted a lot of debate from a number of OACPS countries, including Zambia.

Hon. Members may wish to note that the EU has already started engaging OACPS countries on a bilateral level regarding the issue of critical materials. This follows the issuance of the EU Regulation on Critical Raw Materials on 16^th March, 2023, which aims at to ensure the EU’s access to secure and sustainable supply of critical raw materials in OACPS countries, in view of the EU green and digital transitions, aerospace and defence sectors, among others. The regulation covers thirty-four critical raw materials, including cobalt, copper, magnesium, nickel, platinum and manganese.

Madam Speaker, I am happy to report that during the debate on critical raw materials, the Zambian delegation proposed that the JPA held an in-depth discussion on the topic, which would result in a joint resolution to guide member states and emphasise the need to prioritise value addition and ensure mutual beneficiation by the OACPS countries and the EU. Following the debate, it was agreed that the topic would form part of the substantive agenda items of the next JPA. It was further proposed that in the meantime, a working group be formed to spearhead the matter and subsequently draft a resolution.

Madam Speaker, a number of resolutions were adopted at the end of the ACP-EU JPA on Wednesday, 28^th June, 2023. They include:

1. enhancing co-operation on maritime security and promoting the rule of law on the oceans;

1. the humanitarian and security situation in Haiti;

1. the humanitarian situation in countries of the OACPS affected by terrorism;

1. strengthening parliamentary solidarity and political will for road safety in member countries of the OACPS and the EU, including safe infrastructure; and

1. the EU list of non-co-operative tax jurisdictions and the list of third countries regarding Anti-Money Laundering and Countering the Financing of Terrorism (AML/CFT).

Madam Speaker, following the successful participation of the Zambian delegation in the aforementioned meetings, the delegation wishes to highlight the following recommendations:

1. the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, in collaboration with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, is urged to organise a half-day sensitisation workshop for Members of Parliament during the Budget Meeting between September and December, 2023. The objective should be to, among others, apprise Members of Parliament on:

1. the status, objectives and impact of the Post Cotonou Agreement on the OACPS and Zambia in particular;

1. other partnership agreements and their impact on the OACPS and ACP-EU partnership;

1. the role of Members of Parliament in the enforcement of the Post Cotonou Agreement; and

1. any other related information that would be of benefit to the Zambian OACPS-EU JPA delegations; and

1. in line with the response given by the EU Council on the EU Visa Policy, the delegation recommends that Zambia, through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, considers exploring opportunities and possibilities to be enlisted among nations that have the EU visa-free regime in place.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to place on record my gratitude to your Office and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for facilitating our travel to Brussels, this time, for me, not as a single delegate, but with fellow hon. Members. This has subsequently made it possible for us to share the report on the Floor of the House, and to the nation at large, in line with the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders. Further, allow me to express my sincere gratitude to all the members of the delegation to the 63^rd OACPS Assembly and the ACP-EU JPA for their support and commitment. Finally, I would be failing in my duties if I did not recognise and thank the Zambian Embassy in Brussels, led by His Excellency Mr Sylvester Mundanda, Ambassador of the Republic of Zambia to the Benelux and the EU, for ensuring that we participated in the meetings effectively. I would also like to thank his staff for the support that was given to the delegation.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr B. Mpundu: Now, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to second this Motion that has been moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi. Permit me to congratulate her on having been a recipient of an award this morning as a very effective youth and good leader.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister for Southern Province is questioning whether Hon. Sefulo is a youth. She is very youthful.

Laughter

Hon. Sefulo: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mwandi has highlighted, perhaps, everything that needs to be said about the Organisation of the African, Caribbean and Pacific States (OACPS) as well as the European Union Joint Parliamentary Assembly (EU JPA).

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was trying to explain for the benefit of the hon. Members

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: There is quite a lot of noise.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we have order, please. Can we move quietly to our seats.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, thank you. I was trying to say that for the benefit of the hon. Members who are here, OACPS is an organisation of countries in Africa, the Pacific Region as well as the Caribbean Region. The countries are represented to the organisation by parliaments, and this Parliament has sent hon. Members to be part of this grouping. It is, therefore, important that hon. Members of Parliament must understand what goes on in the organisation. It is also important to highlight that apart from the OACP meeting, there is now a joint assembly between the OACP and the EU. So, the last two meetings we had were broken down into a meeting of the OACP and then we had a joined parliamentary assembly with the European Union.

Madam Speaker, we want to thank you for having facilitated, through your leadership, a team to travel for that engagement. It is an important engagement but, for a very long time, only one hon. Member has been travelling, and that is why we have never had a report laid on the Floor of the House before now. So, we want to thank you and say that after facilitating a good number of people to travel, we now have a report and hon. Members can understand what it is that we do when we go out for these engagements.

Madam Speaker, I have highlighted the fact that the OACP member states have also joined hands with the Europeans. What that brings to us are benefits because the EU has made commitments to help countries in the Pacific, Africa and the Caribbean in issues of trade, politics and social co-operation.

Madam Speaker, you may be aware that not long ago, we received a delegation from the EU that came to Zambia to support the Government. For a very long time, Zambia had lost support from the EU, but that support has come back. All these benefits are coming through these collaborations, and Zambia is participating through the Committee that you sent to this engagement.

Madam Speaker, let me highlight one or two issues that came out of our deliberations in Brussels.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nkana, just give me a minute.

Hon. Members, there is too much noise. If people want to caucus, I think they are free to go out so that we can listen to the debate on this good report and cover the other items on our agenda for today. There is too much caucusing by different people going on. Can we, please, give chance to the hon. Member for Nkana so that we get what he is trying to tell us about the report. It is a very important report.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, thank you for that guidance, and I want to invite hon. Members of Parliament to follow this debate because it is very important. For some reason, members would think that when we go out, we just go for window dressing or window shopping. When we go out, particularly on this trip we took, Zambia stands to benefit from what the Europeans have put on the table. Like I did mention, the Europeans came here to support Zambia, and that did not come from the blues; it came from these same engagements. So, we are lucky that we are part of this organisation. Remember, not every country in Africa is a member of the OACPS. So, Zambia is lucky to be part of this organisation.We are also lucky that the delegation leader is part of the bureau that makes decisions for the organisation.

Ms Sefulo: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, let me state that I have found a challenge; when the grouping is undertakes a trip, there is s disconnect between the ministries responsible and the grouping. It is important that before we take a trip, Parliament summons the ministries to sit down so that we can liaise and agree on a position to take on many of the issues that are discussed in those meetings because when we meet, member states agree on common understanding relating to issues of politics, trade and the like.

Madam Speaker, one critical issue that hon. Members would want to know is that today, there is a rush to Africa by the Europeans to Africa to tap into critical raw materials. As opposed to what it used to be in the past, when Westerners would come and get raw materials, the conversation on the table now, as agreed by member states, is that we must have the common voice that no materials should move out of Africa in their raw form. The danger now is that through this Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), the Europeans are also clever enough to cash in. Their agenda is to have conversations with each country, meaning that they are trying to break the countries apart instead of facing a common voice. So, it is important that every country that is engaging the Europeans does not depart from what is agreed in the meetings of the OACP so that we have a common understating, and the understanding now in relation to critical raw materials is that the Europeans, if they come here to look for our critical raw materials, they must invest here. Our raw materials must not go out.

Madam Speaker, if we are not careful, the Europeans will come and bring goodies, and we are bound to give away these raw materials and depart from what has been agreed upon by member states, which is that no raw materials must move out of the African continent in their raw form. So, it is important that these conversations do not just end up in reports; they must be followed through so that there is interaction among the ministries that are responsible for trade agreements. This is because ministries are engaging the Europeans. Meanwhile, your hon. Members, through this grouping, are going to have a conversation and adopt positions that may differ from what is being agreed upon at the ministerial level.

Madam Speaker, I think, that it is important that this report is studied by hon. Members so that they understand it, and Parliament should also take keen interest, not just to send people and spend money, but also follow the deliberations and resolutions made in these undertakings.

Madam Speaker, we thank you for having given us the opportunity to lay this report on the Floor of the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, I will just add a few words on the debate on this very wonderful report that the House has been treated to today.

Madam Speaker, the Organisation of African, Caribbean and Pacific States (OACPS) is a very important organisation that we must pay attention to. Going forward, it is my suggestion that we come up with a caucus in the House to look at matters affecting this organisation. I took time to read its recommendations. Just like any other country, we have been given an instruction by the organisation to ensure that the next delegation we send there is, of at least, 30 per cent made up of women The organisation went further to state that the subscriptions paid to it are very important. What I do not know is what level we are pushing for the subscription, as Parliament, because we are very much interested in this organisation.

Madam Speaker, we also chair a very important organ of the OACPS. It was very nice to see our hon. Member of Parliament chair it and represent Zambia. So, it IS very important to look at the issue of paying subscriptions. I do not know whether we are up to date or we are owing. If at all we are owing, my appeal to you is: help us push so that we can remain members of this very important organisation.

Madam Speaker, one of its recommendations passed was that because the importance of thie organisation is not recognised, the organisation’s deliberations be broadcast on social media platforms. Indeed, that is true because even here, in Parliament, very few of us know about this organisation. So, it will be very important that our Parliament, through Parliament Radio and Television, broadcasts programmes to show the importance of this organisation.

Madam Speaker, like Hon. Binwell Mpundu put it, this organisation is looking at raw materials and the way they are being extracted in Africa. That should be an area of concern on which we should put a lot of importance and ensure that we benefit from the ideas that our colleagues from the Caribbean and other regions bring to the table.

With that said, Madam Speaker, I want to thank you.

Mr E. Tembo (Fiera): Madam Speaker, I thank you. I would also like to thank the delegation to the Organisation of African, Caribbean and Pacific States (OACPS).

Madam Speaker, I just want to add a few words to the debate on the report. Basically, I will focus on the just-ended meeting, where the issue of raw materials from Africa to the European Union (EU) was discussed.

Madam Speaker, as Africans, we need to understand what happens in the world and how international relations operate, particularly between the North and the South or the bigger countries and the smaller economies. An organisation such as this one sounds very interesting and very good in favour of our national objectives. However, there is always one problem, which is the funding of the organisation. My hon. Colleagues have already talked about contributions or subscriptions by member states. What normally happens is that the same countries we are negotiating with about raw materials and setting up manufacturing industries in Africa are the ones funding the secretariat of the organisation, the operations and even the meetings. At the end of the day, that undermines Africa’s objectives. Indeed, as already said, the EU will go from one country to the other and entice them to have separate agreements. At the end of the day, all these efforts we are making will amount to nothing.

Madam Speaker, I would have even loved the meeting to have been in Africa. Yes, it is good to go to Europe, but that meeting should have been in Africa, or at least, in the Caribbean, and the agenda should not have been set by the Europeans; it should have been set by ourselves. By the way, like I said, there are developed countries and we, the less developed countries. Actually, we are richer because if you have resources and assets, you are actually rich. Unfortunately, when it comes to our negotiating strength, we are made to believe that those who have billions of dollars in mining and other sectors have a higher say and that every time, we should be subjugated by them. I take note that this organisation has actually been in existence for a long period of time. There was the EU Cotonou Agreement and the Lome Convention, all of which had to do with the same thing.

Madam Speaker, my submission is that it is time for Africans to die a little to finance our objectives. It is good that we always agree on the objectives, but we do not agree on paying subscriptions to the organisation that needs to spearhead our objectives.

With these few words, Madam Speaker, I just want to say that I thank the Committee and that I hope that what we have said will be taken on board. These issues have been the pitfalls of organisations such as the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and the African Union (AU). The orgainsations all suffer from the same problem. The EU and other international organisations are funding the AU and, at the end of the day, we as Africans have a problem having strength and unity that we talk about.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for this opportunity to add a few thoughts to the debate on this report.

Madam Speaker, the Organisation of African, Caribbean and Pacific States (OACPS) and the European Union (EU) has proved to be a very important partnership between the African and Caribbean nations, and it is in this vein that I strongly urge the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry to continue paying our subscriptions to the partnership. I think, the experience is that as Africans, we are very rich in minerals and other things, whereas our colleagues from the European nations or the Western World do not have what we have. However, they have the technology that we need to process what we have. The only major thing that I seem to see is that there has to be some equity in this partnership. What I mean is that the playing field must be levelled. I think, it is very easy for our colleagues from the West to come and dictate the terms of trade in whichever way, and we are left to be receivers of whatever they dictate. So, having dealt with this, it is something that I think was discussed at the conference; how that as African nations, we would like to feel that we are partners in this relationship.

Madam Speaker, we do not have big boys and the small boys, meaning that we must all be equal. This is an issue that I think, was dealt with very effectively when we looked at it. Suggestions were made to the effect that, since the European Union (EU) negotiates as a bloc, for example, it will come to Zambia as the EU to negotiate for trade terms. As Africans, we should also come to a point where we learn to negotiate as a team, too, so that we do not allow our colleagues from the West to divide us and dictate the terms. Otherwise, this partnership is very important for us as Africans. As I alluded to earlier, we have the minerals but we do not have the technology.

Madam Speaker, it was very impressive to see our delegation leader argue the point, which was backed by, I must say, all African countries, that were present, that we cannot export our jobs and raw material which, in turn, will come back to us at a very high cost. So, we would rather deal with our raw materials and export them as finished products. That will definitely create employment for our people in Africa, though our Western friends, I am sure, were caught napping because they did not expect what they were told during the meeting.

Madam Speaker, the other matter that was of major interest is that of human rights. We had some people from certain nations who brought in the issue of gay rights, which was hotly debated. To a very large extent, it looks like African nations are now moving together, a thing that was very encouraging to us. I just wish to say, as Zambia, we need to continue on this trajectory because it is clear that we have a very wealthy nation. Almost all the minerals and raw materials that are envied or rather desired by the Western World are found here, in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, without taking too much of your time, I wish to support this report and encourage everybody else to do the same because this is something that we need to do as Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I want to start by appreciating all the hon. Members who took time to read our report. I hope that those who did not have time to read it will actually do so because it is very important. Let me also thank the hon. Member for Nkana for seconding the Motion and the hon. Member for Chitambo, who spoke about the need to ensure that in the next delegation, 30 per cent of the members will be women. I am glad to mention that the permanent representative of your Committee is actually a woman. So, that also speaks to how much Zambia is thriving in this representation. The hon. Member also spoke about the need to pay subscription fees. I am glad to inform the House that, actually, through the Executive, Zambia is a paid-up member; all our subscriptions are paid.

Madam Speaker, with regard to the visibility of this organisation, it is very important that 100 per cent agree that very little is known about this very important Committee that deals with investment and trade in regard to the EU. So, we need to do more to make sure that your Committee is very visible. I also want to thank the hon. Member for Feira for that very eloquent debate on our report. One hon. Member talked about the raw materials in our country. Let me mention that a resolution on the export of critical raw materials was actually moved by Zambia. So, Zambia took that stance in that meeting, and we had the support of other African countries to make sure that the OACPS can take a stance in regards to the exportation of raw materials. We want all the value addition to be done in our respective countries. We are glad, and we agree that the EU is also of the idea that the value addition be done in our respective countries so that we do not export jobs and so that we can exchange technological knowhow. We can also solve issues of people migrating to Europe because, then, they will not need to go to Europe because, the jobs will be right here. I also want to thank Hon. Mulebwa for his debate. That is a job well done.

Madam Speaker, lastly, allow me to also say that we look forward, as a desk, to having a caucus on trade and investment. We are hopeful that hon. Members will support that caucus so that it can inform us regarding exactly what is happening with the EU and other co-operating partners that are looking for investment opportunities in Zambia. We are hopeful that we can launch the caucus, at least, early next year to make sure that there is that interaction. With that said, I am grateful that hon. Members have taken time to read and support our report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: What are these names for? We are winding up debate on this report.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I just want to add to what my hon. Colleagues have said regarding the President’s Speech delivered to this august House on the occasion of the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

Madam Speaker, I want to start by recognising the fact that the President was kind enough to inform the nation that it was true that development and governance were not straightforward issues. This was made clear, and it underscores the fact that when you are in the Opposition, you can dream and criticise, but you will learn that, actually, more is involved in governing.

Madam Speaker, the key issue that I want to bring up, which is from the people of Feira in Luangwa District, is the cost of living. The price of mealie meal has led to serious hunger. People are now going for two days without eating.

Mr Kapyanga: Insala!

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, this is real. To make this point clear, we should not come here and mislead the President. When things are a certain way, and there is a complaint, it is not politics. Equally, because of high fuel prices, the cost of living has gone up, and that has been impacted by some of those factors of production.

Madam Speaker, in the agriculture sector, we are informed that 1,024,000 farmers benefited from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). It is important that instead of changing the beneficiaries, we actually increase the number of beneficiaries. This issue of maize goes straight to our livelihoods. We cannot blind ourselves to the fact that mealie meal is not only inaccessible, but also highly priced. This is real. The President did mention that our country is under pressure for maize from the region. This has always been the case. It is not a new thing. The only problem is that we have decided to forget what we were taught even in primary school. We can only sell to others after we are satisfied that we have enough for ourselves.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, what is happening? These exports, some of which are done underground, are not going to help us. Such exports will ensure that shortages and high prices of mealie meal continue because there is low supply of mealie meal.

Madam Speaker, there was also mention of avocados and flowers being exported to Europe. Again, this is not a new thing. To me, this cannot be mentioned as an achievement because we cannot see the impact on the economy. These are issues from the eighties. Flowers and avocados have been exported to Europe. We were expecting real issues.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Rev. Katuta: Insala!

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, the real issue is addressing the hunger situation in the country. I would want the hon. Minister of Agriculture to give details on those strategies that the President talked about, but did not give details. How will hunger be ended? We cannot sit down here – yes, we are hon. Members of Parliament and, perhaps, better off, but, the people out there in Kalingalinga, Feira, and everywhere around the country have all these problems.

Mr Kapyanga: Even in Mpika.

Mr E. Tembo: Even in Mpika. I thought Mpika was better, but even in Mpika people are suffering.

Madam Speaker, the elephant in the room ni insala, hunger.

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, let me also address myself to the mining sector with the little time I have left. As I said, when you are outside – in Bemba, they say “ing’anda baikumbwa umutenge.” You can only admire the roof of the house and not what is inside. When you get into Government, you discover that things are not what they seemed. Notwithstanding the heavy criticism of Vedanta Resources Limited, now we are told that Vedanta Resources Limited is coming back …

Mr Kapyanga: What a shame!

Mr E. Tembo: … with all its many flaws like tax evasion and not paying suppliers. I think, that the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development should give details. What is it that is good that the Government has seen now what it did not see before?

Madam Speaker, yes, I agree that it is always good to have out-of-court settlements, but why do the courts exist? Is it not to determine disputes? Zambia declared a dispute with Vedanta Resources Limited because of so many issues. I am meant to believe that an assessment was done. If you look at the petition that led to the liquidation of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), you will see that it outlines the ills. This company had been, let me just use the word ‘stealing’, because a lot of the profit was sent out of the country.

Madam Speaker, the issue is that, yes, it is true that we can have an out-of-court settlement, but it should not be for the sake of it. We need to ensure that we do not lose in the long term. Yes, we are saying that we cannot mine in the courts. The courts are there to ensure that the rights of Zambians are guaranteed. By the way, we need to ensure that we set a precedent. Now, this precedent we set by entering into a consent judgment will ensure that at the end of the day, any other company will do the same because they know that they will take us to court and we are scared of court, because we are saying no mining should take place in court. We must fight in court and prosecute the matter up to the end.

Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development say that KCM will actually start making profits after four years. On what basis is he saying that? If KCM is not ready to mine, why have we given it the mine? I am aware that it is asking for a debt of K1.3 billion from Standard Chartered Bank, meaning that there is something wrong financially with this company. Anyway, we wait to see what happens.

Madam Speaker, allow me to also talk about tourism. I am an advocate of tourism, but I have problems with the way the tourism sector is controlled by foreign companies; how they make a lot of money here and most of the money does not hit the bank accounts in Zambia. They keep their accounts offshore. Tourists who come here pay from out there and only get a service in Zambia. I have a problem with that. I think that once we count the numbers coming in, we should also count how much Zambia has earned.

Madam Speaker, the President mentioned that there are a number of airlines that have started flying into Zambia, such as Mozambique Airlines and Turkish Airlines. I agree. This is very simple. You know, the rehabilitation and reconstruction of the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA), Ndola airport (Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport) as well as –

Rev. Katuta: Sausage airport!

Mr E. Tembo: sausage airport, I am told – as well as the Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula International Airport. It is because of the standards of these airports that we see all these planes coming in. So, I think, that it was important for the President to acknowledge that the Former President did a good job. Regarding Kasama Airport, yes, we are happy, but the runway is only3 km. The airport has always existed, anyway.

Madam Speaker, the issue of power is very important, and I have a message from Luangwa District. The people are saying that they need to have access to electricity.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr E. Tembo: We are using the grid for export, but not for local usage.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I also wanted to talk about the consent judgment that the United Party for National Development (UPND) –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your time is up.

Mr E. Tembo: May I just have one minute to wind up.

Laughter

Mr E. Tembo: I have a mouthful.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, no.

Mr E. Tembo: I leave it for another day.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to debate this very important speech delivered during the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly by the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, I am very happy that today, the United Party for National Development (UPND) can confirm that development is not a straightforward journey. That is on page 1 of the President’s Speech. The President confirmed here that development is not a straightforward journey and not what it used to be when the hon. Members on your right were in the Opposition.

Madam Speaker, you may recall that the UPND in the Opposition had all the solutions.

Mr Kapyanga: Hammer!

Mr Simumba: The UPND had a solution even to the rising price of mealie  meal.

Ms Sefulo: Yes, we still have!

Mr Simumba: The UPND in the Opposition promised the Zambian people that they would never buy tu pamela. I came with evidence, in case you do not know what a pamela is.

Mr Simumba held up a plastic containing a white substance.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, this is a pamela, ...

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Insala!

Mr Simumba: … which the UPND promised the Zambian people –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are not allowed to bring such things in the House.

Rev. Katuta: It is evidence!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Otherwise, we are going to see many hon. Members coming into this House with many samples or items.

Rev. Katuta: It is evidence, Madam Speaker!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is not allowed.

Rev. Katuta: It is evidence.

Mr Simumba: I am well guided, Madam Speaker. Thank you very much. I came with it because I did not have a word in English to describe it. So, I thought that, maybe, I could just demonstrate.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can that item be handed over to security so that it is out of this House?

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, can we, please, be focused on the report. Let us try as much as possible to focus on the report just to help Zambians out there who did not listen to the report so that they can pick something from it. Can we be focused.

The hon. Member for Nakonde may continue.

Mr Simumba: I am well guided, Madam Speaker, and thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, I was stating that I am happy that now the New Dawn Administration is able to confirm that development is not a straightforward issue.

Madam Speaker, the people out there – how I wish this could be a Question-and-Answer session so that I could ask some questions to some people who promised us that mealie meal would be bought at K50 one day.

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba: Where is that solution? We want to know where that solution has gone because our colleagues were providing the alternative policies when they were in the Opposition, but, now, they cannot work on the price of mealie meal. Why?

Madam Speaker, as I am speaking, the people of Nakonde are buying mealie meal at K350. The people of Shangombo are buying mealie meal at K350. Others are buying at K400 yet, when the hon. Members on your right were campaigning, they were promising the people of Zambia that mealie meal would be bought at K50. So, the question is: When are we going start buying mealie meal at K50? It is not only that. The same had a solution while in the Opposition for making US$1 to trade at K5 and K10.

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, earlier today, when I checked the rate of the US dollar to the Kwacha, I saw that it is trading at K21.

Rev. Katuta: Ah!

Mr Simumba: It is now going to K26, yet we were told that between 1000 hours and 1400 hours, the Kwacha would appreciate. Hon. Members know the history of the ‘1000 hours and 1400 hours’.

Laughter

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, the Zambian people want to know why whatever our colleagues promised us is not working out. Is it that our colleagues just wanted to use us, as Zambians? The Zambian people want to know why fuel is now at K30 when they were supposed to trade that …

Interruptions

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, I know that many people want to disturb me because this is real. Let me now come to electricity.

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. As you could see, I was relaxed and very reluctant to rise on a point of order until the situation got out of hand.

Madam Speaker, in terms of our Standing Orders, a Motion of such a nature as the one in casu is supposed to be debated in context. Is the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor of the House in order to begin to debate electoral promises of the United Party for National Development (UPND) before …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: … forming Government when this Administration, which is two years in Government, has moved on and is now executing policies that are contemporary and addressing the challenges of the people of the country, ...

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: … including the mealie meal prices?

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, on a very serious note, is the hon. Member on the Floor of the House in order to deviate his debate from the President’s Address to this House on Friday, and begin to talk about electoral promises that were made a long time ago, …

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: … and of which the majority are being executed?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think, I had guided that much as we want to include so many other things, let us be focused on this speech. Whatever we are talking about and including in our debate should be related to the content of the speech that we are looking at. Let us not dwell so much on things that are not in the speech. I am sure, there are many things that His Excellency the President mentioned. If we agree or we do not agree, let us hammer on those things rather than try to bring out things that are all over the place. Let us try to be focused on the report on Floor of the House.

The hon. Member on the Floor may, please, continue keeping that guide in mind.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the guidance.

Madam Speaker, the cost of living for an ordinary Zambian is now unbearable. I am happy that even His Excellency the President confirmed this in his speech. When we talk about the cost of living, we cannot talk about it in isolation from the price of fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, as we are speaking, the price of fertiliser is K850, yet the hon. Members on your right promised us that it would be at K250. These are real issues. If you want to increase production, you need to reduce the price of fertiliser to K250. His Excellency the President also talked about the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I am even worried because we are in September. If I asked the hon. Members here if any of them have received all the quarters of the CDF for 2023, you will hear that no one here has. Each constituency has only received about K6 million.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba: Now, how are we going to develop if we cannot receive the whole amount of the CDF and we are in the third quarter? People want us to develop our constituencies. If we have to develop our constituencies, the money has to be in our accounts. As I am speaking, the people of Nakonde have not received the 2023 CDF. Maybe, other people have received.

Madam Speaker, the other argument that I would want to put across is that we cannot only and always be talking about the CDF or 1x2 classroom blocks. When is the Central Government going to start working on some projects in some of the constituencies? I can ask here how many people …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Unfortunately, you cannot ask your colleagues. This is a debate and you are supposed to address your debate to me, not to your colleagues. So, that question to your colleagues does not stand. Please, observe the rules as you debate.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, the real issue is that we have not received the CDF for 2023.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba: We have only received part of it, which is K6 million, and this is September. When are we going to start implementing projects? That is my question. This means that we will start implementing the 2023 CDF in 2024.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Simumba: Yes, because we have not received anything.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much, and I apologise to my hon. Colleague, who has taken the Floor by storm. These are the men we need in the House. I apologise …

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mpika Central, I am sure ,he is not the only man I can see here.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I can see many men seated here. So, hon. Member, you were actually out of order to say that “he is a man”. There are many men in the House.

You may continue.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 204(g), which provides that “a member shall listen in silence to the debates in the House.” Against this Standing Order, the hon. Member of Parliament for Dudumwezi, a senior Member for that matter, is making running commentaries and insinuating that the Great North Road from Chinsali to Nakonde has been built by this Government when he knows that it was started by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government with funding from the African Development Bank (AfDB), which provided all the money. Is he in order to mislead this House and disturb the debater on the Floor, who is debating very well and raising issues that the Zambian people want to listen to?

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the fact that the hon. Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi was not given the Floor to say something means that we did not hear whatever he said. However, the mistake he made was to say something when his hon. Colleague was on the Floor. We are all supposed to be seated quietly so that we give room to our friend to debate. I was hearing many voices. So, all the hon. Members who were talking when the hon. Member was on the Floor were actually out of order. We are supposed to be seated quietly and listen to one person on the Floor.

Hon. Member for Nakonde, please, wind up your debate.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members, we have to make progress.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, on page 4 of His Excellency the President’s Speech, the President states that:

“We have managed to reduce the end of year inflation to single digit.”

Madam Speaker, how can we have single digit inflation without any meaning? It has no impact on the cost of living for the Zambian people. The inflation rate has to translate –

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us structure our debates and observe time so that we can conclude nicely.

I am going to balance the debate. The next debator will be the hon. Member for Kabwe Central.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Kabwe Central the chance to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for the speech he delivered, in which he showed sincerity and exactly what is happening in our country.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, I am compelled to, at least, discuss points that were not on my paper arising from other issues that our fellow hon. Members are bringing before this House.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I think, points of order are distracting us. I will be reluctant to admit points of order. We want the debate to flow. Otherwise, if we keep on interrupting, then we will even disturb the people of Zambia who are trying to concentrate and listen to what is being discussed here.

Hon. Member for Chinsali Constituency, what is your point of order?

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, thank you. I apologise to the hon. Member who is on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, which speaks to us about the need for us to present information and issues that we can verify.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Nakonde, who was debating before the one on the Floor stated that all the constituencies have not received the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). He further went on to say that we have only received K6 million. Was the hon. Member in order not to explain to the people that the money we have received is, in fact, less than a quarter of what we have to receive? He might have misled the nation by saying that we have received the CDF when in the actual sense, a quarter of the CDF now is K7 million. So, was he in order to say that we have received K6 million when what we have received is actually K 1 million less of a quarter of the CDF? By now, we should have received K21 million. We are in the third quarter of the year.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think, some points of order are not necessary, especially given that we are going to have the hon. Ministers respond to whatever issues are being discussed here. We expect the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to respond to issues to do with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We expect him to come and give us the accurate information. From the way the hon. Member has come out, it is like he has not received anything. Meanwhile, the hon. Member for Nakonde said that he received K6 million. So, for me, let us just wait for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development because I, for one, do not know what you have received. All that I know is that you have received something. However, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development will come and respond to issues of the CDF.

Hon. Members, at this point, I am reluctant to take any more points of order. Please, let us make sure that as we debate, we take into consideration the Standing Orders. Let us also be responsible enough to debate what is supposed to be talked about; the content of His Excellency the President's Speech. So, no more points of order so that we allow as many people as possible to debate.

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, you may proceed.

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, I just want to bring to the attention of the House issues the President brought before this House on economic transformation. I will straight away go to agriculture. I am so delighted that the Government has talked about stimulating production, especially of our staple food. We all know very well that the United Party for National Development (UPND) found the country’s economy on its knees. So, it was prudent for the Government to restructur the country’s debt, which was strangling us, and we could not work or do anything. After restructuring the debt, the Government has now come up with an enabling environment to make sure that Zambians start producing the staple food that we need so much to reduce the cost of mealie meal, which our people are complaining about. There is no magic in reducing the cost of mealie meal apart from increasing production. The President said that we are now going to create a credit window to make sure that all Zambians, be they public workers or our small-scale farmers, embark on producing our staple food, maize, so that we reduce the price of mealie meal.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Halwiindi: There is no magic to that. So, I urge all leaders here to encourage our people and make sure that this coming season, we all embark on growing our staple food.

Madam Speaker, there may be complaints in the border areas because those who live there engage in trade instead of producing our food. So, we should produce enough to make sure that the price of our staple food is reduced.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Government because it has said that we do not want to rely on rain-fed agriculture. We want to also engage in irrigation. This is also going to increase our production.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think, the voices from the caucus of the hon. Member for Chinsali and the hon. Member for Lumezi are too loud. You are allowed to go outside so that you can speak freely, instead of disturbing the proceedings.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mapani: Paya farmers!

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, I just want to urge hon. Members to encourage their people to produce more food, as I said earlier.

Madam Speaker, our President was so strategic or let me say, the UPND Government, was strategic enough to increase the purchase price for maize because low prices are what made our people not produce maize. If you look at the last farming season, you will see that most people grew soya beans, hence we do not have enough maize in our country, yet the whole region wants our maize. So, now that there is an increase in the purchase price of maize, everybody will be encouraged to grow more maize to make sure that the price of mealie meal is low.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Halwiindi: Apart from that, our Government is strategic in empowering our people through empowerment programmes. Through empowerment programmes, we are also increasing the disposable income for our people to have more money even to buy the staple food.

Madam Speaker, the Government has also introduced free education, which is also a cushion. Our people no longer pay for education, meaning that they are saving the money that they used to spend on education. So, the Government is not sleeping, it is doing many things.

Madam Speaker, another thing I want to remind my fellow hon. Members of is that the Government has put up strategic milling plants, such as Kalonga Milling Plant in Kabwe. Now, the problem that we have with our people is that they buy cheap maize meant for our people who are suffering and inflate the prices, which is not good. So, the Government has provided cheaper mealie meal from Eagle Milling and Kalonga Milling, but our people are inflating the prices. So, we cannot say that our people are suffering. It is our people who are causing that. Sometimes, as leaders, we should provide leadership and tell our people that if the mealie meal is meant for our poor people, let it be like that, rather than the prices being inflated.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security went to commission Kalonga Milling Plant. However, instead of people buying mealie meal at K175, others are buying and reselling it at K220. What is that? We are killing ourselves.

Hon. Government Members: PF!

Ms Halwiindi: Madam, the Government’s duty is to provide an enabling environment and ours is to encourage our people to grow more food. There is no magic about that. That is what I am talking about.

Madam Speaker, the President said that there is US$300 million to improve our farming blocks. So, I urge the Government to make sure we take that programme from paper to the ground so that we see the opening up of farming blocks and the creation of large irrigation fields.

Madam Speaker, allow me now to talk about the mining sector, which is very significant to the economic development of our country. I just want to say ‘congratulations’ to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development on the takeover of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). What is now important is to protect our minerals from bleeding outside the country without value addition. I want to suggest and urge the Government that since gold goes outside the country and we do not know who buys it, but many of our youths are mining it out there, the Government should give artisanal licences to our local small-scale miners through co-operatives.

Madam Speaker, we thank the Government for the anticipated Minerals Regulatory Commission. We know that there is going to be decency in the mining sector. As Zambians, we also need to be strategic and come up with a body that is going to be buying gold within Zambia. If we did that, we would empower our youths, and the country would collect taxes from the small-scale mines and realise so much revenue from exports. So, my youths in Kabwe are ready to receive artisanal licences.

Madam Speaker, I want to talk about the road network and thank the Government for the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway. As I said, we want our people, especially in Kabwe, to benefit. I, therefore, wish to inform the Government that our youths and their companies in Kabwe are ready to be sub-contracted so that we have a piece of the cake, which is the construction of the dual carriageway.Right now, I am worried because, already, we have seen big foreign companies that want to be supplying sand and stones. These are contracts meant for our people.

Mrs Masebo crossed the Floor.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Hon. Minister of Health, you are between the person who is debating and I.

Ms Halwiindi: So, I urge the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to make sure that our people benefit from the 20 per cent sub-contracts. However, I wish the threshold could be increased to 50 per cent.

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about the issue of environmental protection and local authorities. The President mentioned that local authorities should find a way of making sure that our environment is clean. I want to urge the Government to give tax holidays to our investors for them to come and embark on recycling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to say a few words on the President’s Speech.

Madam Speaker, the President touched on many issues but, due to the limitation of time, I will just touch on very few issues.

I represent a rural constituency, whose economic activities are based on agriculture. It is not debatable that the agriculture sector continues to play a critical role in Zambia’s developmental agenda. The majority of our people, especially in rural areas, are involved in agriculture. Therefore, when the agriculture sector is not properly managed, it affects the whole country.

Madam Speaker, I will go to small-scale farmers. If you look at the number of beneficiaries in last year’s Budget, you will see that it is the same as this year’s. Meanwhile, people were encouraged to form as many co-operatives as possible because they hoped that the Government would double the number of beneficiaries under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), but that has not been the case. Last year, people were sharing fertiliser in tu meda. So, with the increased number of co-operatives, I do not know how people will be able to share fertiliser this year.

Madam Speaker, the issue of the escalating cost of mealie meal is a source of grave concern.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Mtayachalo: I was on the Copperbelt last week, where people told me to send a message to President Hakainde Hichilema and his Government that they are failing to put three meals on the table, and this is a serious issue which we must not gloss over. The people on the Copperbelt said that for the first time in the history of this country, they are buying mealie meal on lay-by. They cannot manage to buy a bag of mealie meal, and that is a fact.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Laughter

Mr Lubozha: Lay the evidence on the Table.

Mr Mtayachalo: I know that our hon. Colleagues do not want to listen to this, but it is what the people on the Copperbelt and everywhere else are saying; they are now buying mealie meal on lay-by. It is a very sad development, indeed. We have heard –

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

That is something new we are hearing. Where is that happening?

Hon. Opposition Member: Copperbelt!

Mr Mtayachalo: That is on the Copperbelt in Ndola, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo: You are not from the Copperbelt.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please, let us try to be factual, especially when we are talking about things that are happening in the country. Let us make sure that what we are talking about is truly happening. We do not want to spread false information.

You may continue.

Mr Mtayachalo: Well guided, Madam Speaker.

I tend to wonder, when we say that the price of mealie meal is going to come down. How does the price of mealie meal come down when the cost of electricity is escalating? How does it come down when the cost of fuel is escalating? You cannot reduce the price of mealie meal when these factors of production, actually, are expensive.

Mr B. Mpundu: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtayachalo: So, I think, it is important that we tell the people of Zambia the truth.

Mr B. Mpundu: Hammer!

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the issue of mealie meal must be handled with extra care. I do support a cost-reflective price of maize for our small-scale farmers. However, I think, it is important that we look at both sides of the coin. The people are saying that everyone should be a farmer, but not every person can be a farmer. There is division of labour. So, I think, it is important that this Government deals with this matter by lowering the cost of production, and that is how we are going to reduce the price of mealie meal.

The New Dawn Government lost a golden window of opportunity, Madam Speaker. I moved a Private Member’s Motion here, in the House, which urged it to transform the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) so that instead of the agency just buying maize for strategic reserves, it is used, also, as a vehicle to export maize on behalf of small-scale farmers, of course, on the condition that those farmers in co-operatives will be able to sell to the FRA at a lower local cost, while the other percentage is sold on the lucrative foreign market. The Government was going to kill two birds with one stone; the farmer and consumer were both going to be happy. However, we saw that Motion shot down.

Madam Speaker, as regards the credit facility the President talked about, people in Chama North are asking who is going to manage that financial institution. Is it going to be Government driven or public driven? We also do not know whether it will be this year or next year. So, the people are in a dilemma because they do not know when this credit window is going to be established. I hope, the hon. Minister of Agriculture will come to this august House and tell our people when this credit facility is going to be set up.

With regard to tourism, Madam Speaker, I come from a constituency that is dominated by …

Mr Munsanje: Elephants!

Mr Mtayachalo: … wildlife. The President mentioned that we, as a country, received more than 600 tourists in the first half of 2023. Of course, to visit our tourist sites and see the wildlife. Yes, we support earning foreign exchange from tourists, but we feel that the President’s Speech did not meet the expectations of the people of Chama North because he did not mention what measures this Government has taken to contain the escalating cases of humman-animal conflict. There is no way we are going to keep the animals while our people are dying and food security is under threat. So, we want to appeal to this Government to, as quickly as possible, come to this House and amend the Wildlife Act so that we provide for compensation of people who lose crops and people who lose their lives.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I will talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We all appreciate that the CDF was increased. We have no doubt about it. Although certain powers have been decentralised to the provincial offices, however, we feel that this Government must do more because there are certain things, such as disasters, for which the Attorney-General approves and it takes too long for projects like a blown-off roof to be worked on.

Madam Speaker, the CDF is driven by hon. Members of Parliament, and any manoeuvres meant to undermine their functions are not welcome. When the CDF projects go wrong, the hon. Member of Parliament is blamed. However, when it is all roses, he or she is not even considered. I think, that is not right. A Member of Parliament cannot even commission a CDF project. Is that being fair, surely? I do not think that it is right.

Madam Speaker, it is important to note that we are not going to accept a situation in which hon. Members of Parliament are undermined. I do not think that it is fair. I  also appeal to this Government to not make laws meant to target certain individuals. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see that certain things are being tailored to disadvantage those constituencies that are held by opposition hon. Members of Parliament. However, that is going to affect everybody. So, we need the hon. Members of Parliament to have full control of the CDF. This is because whenever anything goes wrong under the CDF, it is the hon. Members of Parliament who are blamed.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I recognise the hon. Member of Parliament on my right and then an Independent hon. Member.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Kabwata to add their voice to the debate on the Motion that is on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, the people of Kabwata want to indicate that they support the speech by His Excellency.

Madam Speaker, the President raised a number of issues in his speech. Firstly, I will talk about the local government, in which he did actually touch on increasing allowances or salaries for our Councillors. No one should even decide to take credit for that because it is the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government that has decided to increase the salaries of our Councillors.

Madam Speaker, the other issue that the President mentioned was amending the law; he urged hon. Members of Parliament to go back to the councils. This is going to assist all of us, hon. Members of Parliament. What is happening now, is that councils are making decisions without hon. Members of Parliament knowing what is happening. As a result, councils are actually making the work of. Hon. Members of Parliament more difficult.

Madam Speaker, as regards the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I do not think that it is right for someone to start lamenting that it is not enough. If you can fail to utilise the little that you have been given to implement projects, then, it means that you are a failed leader.

Madam Speaker, we have people who have not implemented a single project. I have not mentioned any constituency. I am speaking about individuals who have failed to implement even one project, yet they want the money to be given to them.

Madam Speaker, we are not living in the olden days when the CDF was be disbursed after three years or one year. Now, when the Government makes a decision that the CDF should be given to every hon. Member of Parliament, it is actually given.

Madam Speaker, allow me to also –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member on the Floor, try as much as possible to not debate your friends. You are doing fine, but avoid debating your friends.

You may continue.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, the reason –

Mr Kapyanga: Why are you arguing?

Mr Tayengwa: No, I am not arguing with Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, let me continue with that counsel. I believe that the President also talked about amending the law; the Local Government Act, so that all hon. Members of Parliament can go back to the councils.

Madam Speaker, allow me to talk about corruption, and there are two points that I want to raise. In this society, we have those we call the corrupt who would want to influence society. Then, we have people who are going to cause an impact in terms of corruption. Let me start with the first one; the corrupt in society. In the olden days, four or five years ago, we saw how the corrupt in society were actually glorified. They even took up their status in society and decided to hijack almost every institution in our country. They even have the audacity to go to some churches, and I wonder why the men of the collar would even want to worship and glorify people who are corrupt.

Mr Kapyanga: Is that in the speech?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, do not move away from the speech. Can you, please, stick to the content of the speech.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, I am actually talking about corruption because we saw it in the past. In this country, we have a tendency to glorify people who are involved in corruption. That is what has been happening. The people who are talking the loudest are the same people we saw in the past – corruption was the order of the day.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us not disturb the hon. Member on the Floor. We are supposed to listen in silence. Your time will come. We have plenty of days, and we hope that each one of you is going to debate, and that will be very good. We want to hear from you but, for now, can we give the hon. Member the chance to use his time well, in silence.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, let me talk about the impact of corruption. Today, when you plant a seed of corruption, do not expect the results now. What we are seeing and what we saw five years ago, when pupils lacked places in schools and others did not sit on desks, and health facilities had no medicines, it was because of the seed of corruption that was planted way back, ten or five years ago. When one plants the seed of corruption today, expect the results to start germinating after ten years. That is why today, as we speak, we are grappling with the challenges of school desks; it is because of the seed of corruption that was planted by our colleagues in the past.

Madam Speaker, the President emphasised that corruption should be fought at all costs. When it comes to the rule of law, we have seen that elected leaders and other leaders outside there have a tendency to accuse law enforcement officers of not doing their job. After they commit a crime, they want to run away. The issue of law and order should be taken very seriously. It is high time political leaders outside there started respecting the law. We cannot allow a situation in which every time a person opens his mouth to make a comment, he commits a crime. We have now seen people even go to the extent of wanting to become like ngoshe or king cobra, spitting cobra, yet they know that what they are doing is wrong.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of agriculture, the President –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us give him the chance. He is almost winding up.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, on the issue of agriculture and the price of mealie meal, the President was not shy to go into the shanty compounds and face his people. This is a man who has a heart for the Zambian people. We saw what used to happen in the past. Whenever there were mealie meal shortages in the country or whenever there was load-shedding, people would go into hiding and take a break to some place where they could even start drinking whiskey.

Mr Simumba interjected while raising his hands.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Is Hon. Simunji? We are not at a stadium for you to raise your hands.

The hon. Member on the Floor, please, as you wind up, be focused on the report.

Mr Tayengwa: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of mealie meal prices, the President has shown leadership. He has not run away from his people. This President has even gone to the extent of meeting different millers so that he can talk to them about this issue. The reason we are having some of these challenges is that some of the people outside there who are supposed to take up some positions are not doing so. Zambia has almost 75 million ha of land, which is supposed to be used for agriculture, but we are using only 7 per cent of that land. Why? It is because Zambians have a tendency to not wanting to do what they are supposed to do. If we want to increase production, the best is for us to go back to the land. Each one of us here, if we can take up the spirit of cultivating even 1 ha, then, we will be able to increase production.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I support the speech of the President, and the people of Kabwata say thank you.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, thank you, very kindly for permitting the voice of Lumezi to make its submissions on this Motion of Thanks.

Madam Speaker, permit me to mention, from the onset, that I have two different copies of the President’s Speech. I will rely on what the Hansard has given me to speak to the speech.

Madam Speaker, we must be sincere with ourselves. This is a Government that can make a dumb person talk. Last year, we were told that the Government was going to employ 30,000 teachers and 11,000 health workers. The number of teachers to be employed this year has been reduced from 30,000 to 4,500. As a matter of fact, the President said that this year, the Government is going to employ 4,500 teachers. He also talked of the high cost of mealie meal being a result of some instability somewhere. That is not true. Last year, the President encouraged people last year to grow a lot of soya beans because he had found a market in China. The people in Lumezi grew a lot of soya beans and then what happened when it came to marketing the soya beans? The Government said it was not buying soya beans. Last year, the people in Lumezi were selling soya beans at K15 per kg. Today, they are selling it at K6 per kg. Who misled whom? Then the Government comes here to mislead the Zambian people and the people of Lumezi after deliberately creating the narrative that farmers should grow soya beans because there is a buyer in China. When there was a buyer in China, the President had not yet visited China. Now that he has visited China, we do not know whether he is coming to tell us to grow soya beans or not.

Madam Speaker, the President talked of 1,700 km of roads being rehabilitated. The Lundazi/Chipata Road is not done. The Chasefu/Chama Road is also not done. I do not know where the 1,700 km is being done. The President also talked of 149 schools being completed. Where? The last boarding school to be constructed in Lumezi was constructed under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. So, those who write speeches for the Head of State should be paying attention to detail. They cannot allow an entire President to come here with false numbers. It is a fact that there are no 149 schools anywhere in this country that have been completed in the last two years.

Madam Speaker, the Government talks about small and medium enterprises (SMEs) and how it is going to empower them using the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF) from which it has only given us K6 million. We are yet to end the year, and there is a deficit of K21 million. The Government cannot be preaching that it has given us the CDF and telling the people in our constituencies to rise against hon. Members of Parliament, saying that there is K28 million when it is only K6 million. Who is misleading who? We are here saying “Hear, hear!” Bola panshi bane.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you translate the “bola panshi” phrase.

Mr Munir Zulu: Trap the ball on the ground and relax.

Madam Speaker, the Government talks of the composition of the CDF, and the export of avocados and rose flowers. In Lumezi, we do not grow rose flowers. The President should have come here to tell the Zambian people about how much maize we have exported into the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Tanzania and Kenya, not create a narrative that because of some instability somewhere, the cost of mealie meal is going high. This behaviour of misleading people because we claim to be farmers when we are not should come to an end.

Madam Speaker, whoever wrote that speech misled the President. They should have done a better job.

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about the rule of law. For the first time in the history of this country, Cap 12 of the Laws of Zambia, which protects hon. Members of Parliament, has been ignored by people whom I suspect to be junkies. However, some hon. Minister who is in charge of suspected junkies who were recruited by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has continued to supervise them and he is still here.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I have missed your point. Who are the junkies? Are we talking about police officers or what? I am lost on that one. Are there junkies who have come or what? Can you, please, be very clear. Let us be very factual so that we do not mislead the people out there by saying that there are junkies. I do not know whether it is in the Police Service or somewhere else. Can you be very specific and clear.

You may continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the current Inspector-General (IG) of Police is on record, saying and it is in the public domain saying that the previous Government had employed junkies as police officers. I suspect, only junkies could not understand that Cap 12 of the Laws of Zambia is very clear in providing that one is in contempt of the House if one interferes with our work either when coming here or leaving this place. Only suspected junkies will not know that. I agree with the IG, and the hon. Minister who is in charge of suspected junkies is part of us.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, we must be factual. The President, in his speech, said that his Government does not discriminate. This is the joke of a century. We have hon. Members in this House who are deliberately being discriminated by making them sit in one of the most defunct Committees because they are detested.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: It is a fact. Others are in two Committees, Madam Speaker.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

I think, that is not in the President’s Speech. The Committee issue is not there. For your information, that one is administrative. So, like the Hon. Madam Speaker said when she finished announcing the composition of Committees, if there are any hon. Members who have problems with the placement of individuals, they were free to go and see her. So, it is not an issue for debate on the Floor of the House. Even if you debated it, I do not think that the people out there would even understand you. So, since it is administrative, please, use the right channel to air your grievances on your Committees.

You may make progress on another issue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, to the extent that it is administrative, I agree, but I also agree that it was in the President’s Speech. He said that we are not discriminative, and I was trying to raise a point the discrimination taking place. As a matter of fact, there is no constitutional amendment that can take place if this discrimination continues. The President should have been advised or told that the House is divided. There is no progressive constitutional amendment that can be made as things are right now. These are facts. Our colleagues believe that being brutal and taking an hon. Member into police cells meant for junkies will make him/her fall in love with them, they are misleading themselves. The President said some of us borrowed from imperialists, but we not want to talk about imperialism. We are not here to champion an agenda for the imperialists. We are here to push the agenda of Pan-Africanism. Those who do not subscribe to that thought should start counting their days because their stay in power is not in perpetuity; it is temporary.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for this opportunity to debate the Motion of Thanks.

Madam Speaker, in debating the Motion, allow me to address myself to four critical areas. I will speak to decentralisation, agriculture, fisheries and livestock, and the environment.

Madam Speaker, decentralisation becomes the vehicle of metamorphosis for those of us who represent the rural constituencies of this country. It is the panacea that this country needs if we are to get most of the rural areas of Zambia urbanised and developed, provide social amenities for our people, and take development closer to our people.

It is important, Madam Speaker, that in dealing with decentralisation, and as we talk about decision-making and power to the people, we ensure that, in deed and in word, power rests with the people.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I am going to address myself to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) component. I agree with my colleagues who have gone ahead of me in talking about some of the grievances, and said that there are bottlenecks that we need to striaghten. Responding to the bottlenecks is a major component of what decentralisation ought to mean to those of us in rural areas. In this regard, allow me to use this opportunity, on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya, to say that we are calling for an increment under the 2024 Budget.

Madam Speaker, any amendment to the Constituency Development Fund Act must be designed to enhance effectiveness and efficiency in sofar as service delivery is concerned. We want to place it on record, on behalf of Kanchibiya, that whatever we do, be it on the side of those who are in the Opposition or those of our colleagues on the right, must be devoid of politics or political considerations because the moment we introduce politics in service delivery, we suffocate the delivery that the people of Zambia so much yearn for.

Mr B. Mpundu: Ukuleta ama District Commissioners (DC).

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, we can bring politics into the delivery and execution of the CDF. We can also bring politics into finding solutions to the problems we think exist in the disbursement of the CDF. When we bring in politics from one side of the coin or the other, the clarion call, from those of us from Kanchibiya is that we keep this process devoid of politics and political considerations.

Madam Speaker, the people of Kanchibiya will support progressive amendments in sofar as effective and efficient delivery is concerned. In this regard,  want to thank the hon. Colleagues on the right for deferring the Bill that we should have had. I want to salute them because vox populi, vox dei, the voice of the people is the voice of God.

Madam Speaker, with decentralisation, we are able to trigger urban-rural drift as opposed to rural-urban drift. With the CDF, we are able to take development closer to the people. Those of us from Kanchibiya take this wind of opportunity seriously.

Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, I will move to agriculture, which is the bedrock of our economic transformation. To speak to the four pillars of economic transformation –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1841 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 15^th September, 2023.

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