Wednesday, 13^th September, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

                                                                    PRAYER                                                                   

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM MACHA GIRLS SECONDARY SCHOOL IN CHOMA DISTRICT IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils as well as teachers from Macha Girls Secondary School, in Choma District.

Pupils and teachers rose.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia and, indeed, on my behalf, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

SESSIONAL COMMITTEES – MEMBERSHIP

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, in accordance with Article 80 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 and Standing Order No. 188, the following hon. Members of Parliament will constitute the Standing Orders Committee for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

HOUSE-KEEPING COMMITTEES

Standing Orders Committee (12)

The Hon. Madam Speaker (Chairperson)

The Hon. M. W. K. Nalumango, MP, Her Honour the Vice-President

The Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker (Vice Chairperson)

The Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker

The Hon. Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, Minister of Finance and National Planning

The Hon. S. Mulusa, MP, Government Chief Whip

The Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, Leader of the Opposition

Mrs Jacqueline Sabao, MP

Mr Stephen Kampyongo, MP

Mr Remember C. Mutale, MP

Mr Machila Jamba, MP

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda, MP

Further, in accordance with Article 80 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, and Standing Order No. 165 (2) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, the Standing Orders Committee has appointed hon. Members of Parliament to the Standing Committees for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, as follows:

House Business Committee (10)

The Hon. Madam Speaker (Chairperson)

The Hon. M. W. K. Nalumango, MP, Her Honour the Vice-President

The Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker (Vice Chairperson)

The Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker

The Hon. S. Mulusa, MP, Government Chief Whip

The Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, Leader of the Opposition

Mr Stephen Kampyongo, MP

Mr Jay E. Banda, MP

Ms Maureen Mabonga, MP

Mr Clement Andeleki, MP

Committee on Privileges and Absences (10)

The Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker (Chairperson)

The Hon. M. Haimbe, MP, Minister of Justice

The Hon. S. Mulusa, MP, Government Chief Whip

The Hon. B. M. Mundubile, MP, Leader of the Opposition

Mr Imanga Wamunyima, MP

Mr David Mabumba, MP

Ms Julien Nyemba, MP

Brig-Gen. Morgan S. Sitwala, MP (Rtd)

Ms Chrisoza Halwiindi, MP

Interruptions

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Sorry, it is Chrizoster. It is a Tonga name. So, do not mind. Last on that list is Mr Joel Chibuye, MP.

Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee (10)

The Hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker (Chairperson)

The Hon. Dr S. Musokotwane, Minister of Finance and National Planning

The Hon. M. Haimbe, SC., Minister of Justice

The Hon. G. G. Nkombo, Minister of Local Government and Rural Development

The Hon. P. Kasune, Deputy Government Chief Whip

Mr Emmanuel Banda, MP

Mr Emmanuel M. Tembo, MP

Mr Saiti K. Michelo, MP

Mr Elias M. Musonda, MP

Ms Marjorie Nakaponda, MP

GENERAL PURPOSES COMMITTEES

Public Accounts Committee (10)

Mr Warren C. Mwambazi, MP

Mrs Jacqueline Sabao, MP

Mr Golden Mwila, MP

Mr Nicholas M. Mukumbi, MP

Mr Imanga Wamunyima, MP

Eng. Jonathan Daka, MP

Mr Likando Mufalali, MP

Mr George Chisanga, MP

Mr Victor Lumayi, MP

Ms Sibongile Mwamba, MP

Committee on Delegated Legislation (10)

Mr Remember C. Mutale, MP

Mrs Emeldah Munashabantu, MP

Mr Gystave Chonde, MP

Mr Kenny Siachisumo, MP

Mr Frank R. Kapyanga, MP

Mr Wesley Kolala, MP

Mr Phillimon Twasa, MP

Mr Sipho Hlazo, MP

Mr Charles A. Mulenga, MP

Mr Menyani Zulu, MP

Committee on Government Assurances (10)

Mr Gregory Ngowani, MP

Ms Jean Chisenga, MP

Mr George K. Kandafula, MP

Mr Emmanuel Banda, MP

Mr Emmanuel M. Tembo, MP

Mr Kaliye M. Mandandi, MP

Mr Lloyd Lubozha, MP

Mr Herbert Mapani, MP

Mr Christopher Chibuye, MP

Mr Robert M. Chabinga, MP

Planning and Budgeting Committee (10)

Mr Fred C Chaatila, MP

Ms Brenda Nyirenda, MP

Mr David Mabumba, MP

Mr Kalalwe Mukosa, MP

Mr Koonwa Simunji, MP

Mr Machila Jamba, MP

Mr Jeffrey Mulebwa, MP

Mr Anthony C. Mumba, MP

Mr Mayungo Simushi, MP

Mr Mwabashike Nkulukusa, MP

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEES

Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources (10)

Mr Saiti K. Michelo, MP

Ms Maureen Mabonga, MP

Mr Andrew Tayengwa, MP

Mr Michael J. Z. Katambo, MP

Mr Yotam Mtayachalo, MP

Mr Peter Phiri, MP

Mr Lusale J. Simbao, MP

Mr Mweemba Malambo, MP

Mr Ackleo I. A. Banda, MP

Mr Tyson Simuzingili, MP

Committee on Media, Information and Communication Technologies (10)

Eng. Raphael S. Mabenga, MP

Mr Sydney Mushanga, MP

Ms Melesiana Phiri, MP

Mr Andrew Lubusha, MP

Mr Romeo Kangombe, MP

Mr Andrew Tayengwa, MP

Mr Walusa Mulaliki, MP

Mr Oliver Amutike, MP

Mr Chanda Katotobwe, MP

Mr Misheck Nyambose, MP

Committee on Education, Science and Technology (10)

Mr Twaambo Mutinta, MP

Mr Mweemba Malambo, MP

Mr Chinga Miyutu, MP

Mr Tyson Simuzingili, MP

Mr Luckson M. Lungu, MP

Mr Sydney Mushanga, MP

Mr Davies Chisopa, MP

Mr Elias Daka, MP

Mr Harry S. K. Kamboni, MP

Ms Melesiana Phiri, MP

Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism (10)

Mr Romeo Kangombe, MP

Mr Chanda Katotobwe, MP

Mrs Mirriam C. Chonya, MP

Amb. Robert K. Kalimi, MP

Eng. Raphael S. Mabenga, MP

Mr Gregory Ngowani, MP

Ms ‘Kapamba’ S. Mulenga, MP

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: When I give you a Mbunda name, you will not be able to pronounce it. It is Kampamba Mulenga. Sorry, it is not deliberate. In our language, we do not have ‘mba’. So, you can bear with me. The list continues as follows:

  Mr Michael J. Z. Katambo, MP

Mr Lameck Hamwaata, MP

Dr Chitalu Chilufya, MP

Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance (10)

Mr Clement Andeleki, MP

Ms Tasila E. Lungu, MP

Mr Chinga Miyutu, MP

Mr Pavyuma Kalobo, MP

Mr Menyani Zulu, MP

Mr Lameck Hamwaata, MP

Mr Sunday C. Chanda, MP

Mr Joseph S. Munsanje, MP

Mr Monty Chinkuli, MP

Mr Mulenga F. Fube, MP

Hon. Members, the composition of other Committees will be announced tomorrow. If, upon my completion of announcing the composition of all the Committees, any hon. Member finds that he or she does not belong to any Committee, such an hon. Member should inform the Office of the Clerk accordingly.

I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we settle down and proceed with our business. I have seen that there are three indications for matters of urgent public importance.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER OF PARALIMENT FOR MPIKA CONSTITUENCY, ON THE LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MRS W. K. NALUMANGO, ON THE HUNGER SITUATION IN MPIKA

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a matter of urgent public importance, in accordance with Standing Order No. 134, directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, hunger has broken out in Chief Nabwalya’s chiefdom in Mpika District. There is a serious breakout hunger in Nabwalya, and for the past two weeks, we have engaged relevant authorities following an application to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) for relief food. People are, especially, worried that we are going towards the onset of the rainy season, which will make it very impossible for any relief food to be delivered as the roads become impassable.

Madam Speaker, I, therefore, direct this matter of urgent public importance at the Leader of Government Business in the House and I seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Mpika is urged or encouraged to engage the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), under the Office of the Vice-President, to ensure that arrangements are made to address that situation. The matter is, therefore, not admitted. It is a matter that can be dealt with through engagement with relevant authorities.

Hon. Members, please, do engage the relevant authorities. If you wait until the matter is raised as a matter of urgent public importance, and if, indeed, people are dying of hunger, by the time it is discussed through a ministerial statement, people would have died. So, hon. Members, can we take the initiative to engage with the relevant institutions.

MR J. DAKA, HON. MEMBER OF PARALIMENT FOR CHADIZA CONSTITUENCY, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT, MR KABUSWE, ON ILLEGAL MINING IN CHADIZA

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam Speaker, in a ward called Khumba in my constituency, there are some serious illegal gold mining activities happening at the moment. As such, the country is losing many resources through these activities.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development in order to keep quiet when the country is losing huge natural endowment in the form of gold in my constituency?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence.

Madam Speaker: The issue of illegal mining is ongoing. It is not of recent occurrence. Hon. Member, I will suggest that you file in a question, which the hon. Minister can answer at the appropriate time. So, that does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance and, therefore, it is not admitted.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

LEASE OF ZAMBIA RAILWAYS WORKSHOP

16. Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Transport and Logistics:

1. whether the Government has any plans to lease the Zambia Railways Workshop in Kabwe District;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima) (on behalf of the Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali)): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to lease the Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) workshop in Kabwe District.

Madam Speaker, as stated in response to part (a) of the question, the Government will not implement such plans.

Madam Speaker, the workshop will not be leased because it was designed to support railway services. The Government is in the process of recapitalising the ZRL, which is expected to enhance the operations of the company through the acquisition of rolling stock, thereby increasing demand for services offered by the workshop.

Madam Speaker, the Government takes cognisance of the underutilisation of the workshop for a long time now. Therefore, in the interim, the ZRL has started commercialising the workshop by entering into strategic commercial partnerships with various private companies and government institutions. Currently, the company has signed a number of memoranda of understanding (MoUs) with various companies and institutions in the agriculture, construction, water, mining and manufacturing sectors, among others, to undertake various jobs such as carpentry, metal fabrication and heavy equipment repairs. This will ensure that the workshop remains viable.

Madam Speaker, the ultimate goal of the ZRL is to commercialise the workshop to full capacity by partnering with strategic partners.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, thank you to the acting hon. Minister for his response.

Madam Speaker, you may be interested to know that Kabwe District has no industry and we have many problems in terms of job creation, especially for our youths. If this workshop, which is almost the largest in Central Africa, could be utilised to its full capacity, it could employee many youths, especially those we sent to train metal fabrication under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So, having listened to the answers, I want to find out from the hon. Minister since he said that the Government has signed a number of Memoranda of Understanding (MoUs) with private companies which are doing works under agriculture. Currently, how many workers does the workshop have following the signed MoUs with different companies because the hon. Minister said the operation is ongoing?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I do not have the number of workers with me, as at now, because the question was talking about whether the Government has any plans to lease the workshop. We will go and check if we have to, and establish how many workers there are.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask a supplementary question on the matter on the Floor of the House. In responding to one of the questions, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government of the Republic of Zambia is in the process of recapitalising the Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL). However, he did not indicate the duration. When is the Government of the Republic of Zambia going to recapitalise the ZRL?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member quoted me rightly when I said we are in the process. So, ‘in the process’, cannot have a timeline. Is it not so? So, it is a process. It has started. When it will end, I do not know, but the process has started. 

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, apart from workshops, Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) has many underutilised properties. I do not know whether the ministry has taken an audit of such properties to decide on how they can be utilised because some are just subjected to vandalism.

Madam Speaker: The way the question is couched is that it is referring to the lease of the Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) workshop in Kabwe. It does not talk about general properties belonging to the ZRL. I do not know if the hon. Minister will be able to answer that question. I am sure he is not prepared. Maybe we can hear it from the hon. Minister. Let him speak for himself.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, you rightly said it. I am not prepared.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

RECRUITS ENROLLED IN ZAMBIA POLICE AND ZAMBIA CORRECTIONAL SERVICE FROM 2020 TO 2022

17. Mr Mushanga asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

1. how many recruits were enrolled in the following institutions, from 2020 to 2022, year by year:

1. Zambia Police Service; and

1. Zambia Correctional Service;

1. what the total number of recruits, segregated by gender, in each institution was;

1. how many recruits graduated in each institution in the same period; and

1. of the recruits who graduated, how many were receiving upkeep allowance, as of December 2022. 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence to allow me to use this forum to congratulate the United Party for National Development (UPND) on scooping a ward election in Dundumwezi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Wherein, the UPND was unopposed. All the other political parties in the country scampered. They could not find support to field a candidate in Dundumwezi. Congratulations to Councillor Nkuyanda Malawo. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: This has not happened from the time we assumed office. So, it speaks volumes. Congratulations, once again.

Rev. Katuta: In Dundumwezi!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the whole country is now Dundumwezi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Even Chiengi.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, even Chienge is Dundumwezi.

Madam Speaker, in responding to the questions asked by the hon. Member of Parliament, I wish to inform the House that the Zambia Police Service recruited 3,875 officers in 2021 in all the three training institutions namely Lilayi Police Training College (LPTC), Geoffrey Mukuma Paramilitary Training School (GMPTS) and the School of Public Order Management (SPOM), in Kamfinsa. There was no police recruitment in 2020 and 2022.

Madam Speaker, the Zambia Correctional Service (ZCS) recruited 2,066 officers between 2020 and 2022 as follows:

Year                                                     No. of Officers                            

2020                                                                     114                          

2021                                                                     928

2022                                                                   1,024

Madam Speaker, there were 2,410 males and 1,465 females recruited at the three police training institutions as follows:

         Males               Female            Police Training Institution

         547                  799                  Lilayi Police College;

         564                  666                  School of Public Order Management, Kamfinsa

Madam Speaker, 1,299 males only were recruited at Geoffrey Mukuma Paramilitary Training School bringing the total to 3,875 recruits.

Under the Zambia Correctional Service, Madam Speaker, eighty-seven males and twenty-seven females were recruited in 2020 whilst in 2021, 573 males and 355 females were recruited. The 2022 recruitment exercise had 520 males and 504 females. From the three institutions under the Zambia Police Service, 3,866 recruits graduated as follows:

1. 1,341 recruits from Lilayi Police College;

1. 1,228 recruits from School of Public Order Management, Kamfinsa; and

1. 1,297 recruits from Geoffrey Mukuma Paramilitary Training School.

Two recruits, Madam Speaker, died and three recruits were dismissed at Lilayi Police College during training. At Kamfinsa, two recruits were dismissed during training whilst at Geoffrey Mukuma Paramilitary Training School one recruit died and one was dismissed bringing the total number of dead and dismissed officers to three and six, respectively. Under the Zambia Correctional Service, a total of 114 and 928 recruits graduated in 2020 and 2021, respectively. The ones recruited in 2022 are still undergoing training. No deaths or dismissals have been recorded so far.

Madam Speaker, as of December 2022, all the recruits who graduated in 2021 from police training institutions were receiving salaries and not upkeep allowances whilst the 375 recruits who graduated from the Zambia Correctional Service Training Institution were receiving upkeep allowance. All the 375 officers are now receiving salaries.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, I am very troubled and surprised that the hon. Minister has submitted on the Floor of the House that a councillor candidate in one of the wards Dundumwezi went through unopposed, yet the hon. Minister is very aware that nominations day was characterised by serious violence …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mushanga: … and because of that our candidate from the Patriotic Front (PF) was not able to file his/her nomination. So, I wonder if the winning of the United Party for National Development (UPND) can be celebrated by the hon. Minister and the party at large because of the kind of violence that transpired on nomination day.

Asking a follow-up question, Madam Speaker, I would want to find out –

Mr Sing’ombe interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that recruits under the correctional service for 2022 have not graduated. When are they going to graduate?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I have continued celebrating our victory, which was free and fair, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Member: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: … unlike all the elections that were held under the reign of the Patriotic Front (PF).

Mr Sing’ombe: Exactly!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the recruits who are undergoing training at Nyango in Kaoma will be graduating on 29^th September, 2023.

Thank you, Madam.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, before I ask the hon. Minister a supplementary question let me pass a message of condolences to the Chishinga Kingdom of Luapula Province over the death of two chiefs; Chief Mulundu of Mwense District in Mambilima Constituency and, of course, Chief Mutipula in Chipili District of Luapula Province. Due to that, Senior Chief Mushota will not be celebrating the Malaila Traditional Ceremony on 16^th September, 2023, a ceremony which falls under the Chishinga-speaking people of Luapula Province to which I proudly belong.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister gave a strong preamble that other political parties scampered.

A lawyer; a defender of human rights, …

Hon. PF Member: Question!

Mr Chitotela: … yet he is happy with the scampering of other political parties?

Laughter

Mr Chitotela: The question is –

He knows. He is a very good defender of human rights, as a lawyer, by profession.

Madam Speaker, the Zambia Police Service began the process of recruitment for 2022, and youths across the country have been sending messages. As the hon. Minister was giving a breakdown of the recruitment, he did not refer to the recruitment under the police service other than the correctional services. Is it the Government’s official position to choose to skip that important recruitment of the young boys and girls who were selected? Will recruitment not take place?

Madam Speaker: I do not know if the hon. Member was in attendance because I was following, and the hon. Minister referred to recruitment under the Zambia Police Service. For 2022, he said there was none.

Anyway, let him answer. I am sure we were still passing condolences and hitting at each other. I know Dundumwezi things come in big sizes so –

Laughter

Madam Speaker: On a lighter note.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I also want to commiserate with my hon. Colleague on the loss of our leaders in his constituency. I wish God’s consolation for the people of Luapula Province pertaining to the loss.

Madam Speaker, I did mention that there was no recruitment in 2020. We did not recruit. However, the process started in 2022 and is still ongoing. Very soon, we will announce recruitments for 2023 not 2022 because we did not recruit.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Kwacha, to ask a supplementary question.

Madam Speaker, with the increasing number of recruitments in the Zambia Correctional Service and Zambia Police Service, does the Government have plans to construct new housing units to accommodate the increased number that he has indicated to this House?

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, Madam Speaker, the Government has intentions to construct housing units for security officers who are serving under the Zambia Police Service, Zambia Correctional Service, and other wings. There is a contract that has been running, which has not been terminated. However, we are just looking for modalities to ensure that we are compliant with the loans that were obtained. Once those issues are resolved, we will re-commence the construction of the housing units.

Thank you, Madam.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I take the Zambia Police Service to be the most important security wing that every nation needs because it takes care of all citizens. Why is it that when it comes to recruitment, the numbers in the Zambia Police Service or the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security are small? The current numbers that we have are not desirable for the nation. Why is it that the ministry is employing less numbers and in a piecemeal fashion?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the concerns that have been expressed by my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge.

Madam Speaker, what I would like to state is that the financial envelope is limited. We do appreciate that there is a need to recruit police officers and officers in other security wings. However, the recruitment is dependent on the availability of resources. I can confirm that we are progressively recruiting to ensure that the ratio of the police and members of the public is reduced. It will depend on the availability of resources. I do take note of the concerns.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I would like to advise the hon. Minister, because of his responsibilities over all of us, to be the last one to celebrate issues that look undemocratic.

Hon. Mposha Interjected

Mr Kampyongo: I looked after you. Do not comment (Pointing at Hon. Mposha).

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mposha: Interjected

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, some hon. Ministers are unruly. Look at our hon. Colleague.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think you started the process of trying to advise.

Mr Kampyongo: But why should he engage me, who is on the Floor while he is seated there (Pointing at Hon. Mposha)

Interruptions

Mr Mushanga: Which, hon. Minister?

Mr Kampyongo: The hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, is that the way we are going to proceed today?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, we should not proceed like that because when you recognise us, I have the Floor he should not engage me while he is seated.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, ask your supplementary question.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the figures that he has given progressively, which is very important. However, I would like to find out what the hon. Minister is doing to ensure that confidence in his officers is restored, following the lamentations of the senior most officer in the Zambia Police Service, the Inspector-General of Police, who labelled some of the officers as ‘junkies’? I would like to find out what the hon. Minister is doing in order to instil confidence in those officers who have been well-trained.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I would like to respond to the other leg of the question and comment that was made by my hon. Colleague, the former Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Hon. Kampyongo, pertaining to the comment I made.

Madam Speaker, as a custodian of law and order in this country, I will not want to condone lawlessness. However, I can confirm that there is no report whatsoever of violence that occurred in Dundumwezi. What happened was that the candidates who wanted to aspire for the position were busy looking for supporters for one week, without finding any support, hence their failure to file as candidates. There was no violence in Dundumwezi. It was the failure to accrue support in Dundumwezi that happened.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, it is just nine supporters. They tried the whole week to look for nine supporters, but they could not find any.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

I think let us get back to the business on the Order Paper.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I want to state that I am a very proud Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, taking into account that professionalism in the Zambia Police Service has been restored. The police officers, currently, are maintaining law and order without undue influence.

Madam Speaker, for the first time in the last ten years –

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Madam Speaker: Firstly, before we go to that point of order, hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika, what are you chewing? You are not allowed to chew anything. Can you get rid of whatever you are chewing.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you very much for according me the opportunity to rise on this very important point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, relating to the discourse he is tendering on the Floor of the House, specifically, when he said that he is a very proud hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal because professionalism in the police service has been achieved under his leadership.

Madam Speaker, I will just give two examples and that will be enough.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte. You are raising a point of order. What is your point of order, do not debate?

Mr Kafwaya: Yes, just two examples.

Madam Speaker: Do not debate. What is the point of order? What breach has been committed?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65, on content of speech because the information that he has given is totally unverifiable. In fact, what is out there is the opposite, and I want to give these two opposite examples.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, now you are debating. Can we make progress.

You are out of order.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I was saying that I am a very proud Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security pertaining to the operations of the Zambia Police Service. 

Madam Speaker, from the time that we assumed office, no one has gone to a police station to beat up policemen. During our reign, members of the public and opposition political parties have been having interactions publicly without them being teargassed or being beaten up. Nothing of that sort has happened unlike what used to happen during those days. That is why I am saying that I am a very proud Member of Parliament and Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. We have noted that even where policemen have been taunted and humiliated, they have never responded. They have been advising the leaders of political parties to keep their cool at police stations and outside police stations.  Unlike in the past, such incidents would have led to tear gassing, beating, including killing, as we witnessed in other areas and situations. I am very proud.

Madam Speaker, obviously, the Inspector-General of Police was expressing concern that there are bad eggs within the Zambia Police Service. It is a fact. 

Madam Speaker, there are matters in the public domain where the Zambia Police Service has arrested a number of policemen who have misconducted themselves. That is a sign of professionalism where you do not condone, but ensure that even those who have been tasked to enforce law and order, are followed by the law when they go astray. All of us must be proud that such things happen. So, I am very proud and my hon. Colleague should be proud that we are taking measures to ensure that there is professionalism.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, what is the number of the recruits who are passing out on Friday, 29^th September, 2023, at Nyango Correctional Staff Training School?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the number of recruits who will be graduating at Nyango Correctional Staff Training School on 29^th September, 2023, will be 1,024.

Mr Kampyongo indicated to speak.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang'andu, you have already asked your question. We only allow each hon. Member to ask a question once.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is a point of order.

Madam Speaker: What is the point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the response that I got from the hon. Minister. I know he talked about professionalism and the conduct of the officers. Only yesterday, we had those tear smokes flying around in Chilenje. I do not know if he is not aware. However, my question was very clear, I was asking the hon. Minister what he is doing –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, what is the breach?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the breach is on Standing Order No. 65(b). My question to the hon. Minister was on the measures he is taking in order to instil confidence. The Inspector-General of Police made a blanket statement and not a selective one where he said bad eggs, but rather he said those that were recruited during a specific period were all junkies. That is why I was asking.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

I am at a loss because you asked a question, and the hon. Minister answered. You are now asking a question. You were raising a point of order and you stated the breach, which is in accordance with Standing Order No. 65(2), but you have not stated what the breach is and you are now asking a clarification on a question that you had asked, which is completely unprocedural and it cannot be allowed. Unless you are raising a specific point of order and stating the breach that has been committed then a ruling will be made. However, if you are going to counter what the hon. Minister answered, then that is unprocedural.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I was raising a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(1)(b), which states that:

“A member should ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

Madam Speaker, that is what I was using to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister that the statement from the Inspector-General of Police was not selective in nature to isolate bad elements, rather it was a general one, as he knows. My question was to find out what measures he was putting in place to instil confidence in those officers who were branded as junkies. That was my question, but he, in his response, referred to some isolated bad elements in the police service. That is why I raised that point of order grounded on Standing Order No. 65 (1)(b).

Madam Speaker: The only problem that I see here is that you cannot challenge the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister in that manner. Maybe, you can explore other means to challenge the answer because it is unprocedural for you to raise it in that manner.

Can we make progress.

SETTING UP OF THE MICRO, SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES COMMITTEE IN CHITAMBO DISTRICT

18. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development when the Government will set up the Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Committee in Chitambo District.

The Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development (Mr Mubanga): Madam Speaker, the Government, through my Ministry, currently, does not have plans to set up the Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Committee in Chitambo District because the ministry already has presence in all the districts, including Chitambo District. The ministry’s presence in the districts across the country is through the district co-operatives and entrepreneurship officers. The officers co-ordinate and implement all activities aimed at supporting the development and growth of co-operatives and micro, Small and medium businesses.

Madam Speaker, the ministry is of the view that creating other structures, which would need operational cost to be run may not be feasible both in the short and in the long run. However, our officers are encouraged to come up with initiatives that could ease reaching out to our small and medium businesses in order to promote their growth. Therefore, if the proposed Micro, Small and Medium Committee would be formed as a local initiative, the ministry will support such ideas.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the reason I asked that question is that the presence of the ministry is not being felt in Chitambo. So, the people felt that they should request the ministry to come up with a recognised body so that they could, at least, take their views to that body. The question is: How is the hon. Minister going to ensure that his ministry, through the body that he just mentioned, will help the people of Chitambo and have its presence felt by them.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I talked of the co-operative officers/entrepreneurship officers. We are actually supposed to have two officers in each district; the co-operative officers and the entrepreneurship officer. So, we are in the process. Once Treasury authority is granted, we will be able to also bring in the entrepreneurship officer but, at the moment, the ministry is engaging its officers in the districts to give them the capacity to help them understand the role of entrepreneurship in each district.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, the ministry which my honourable brother is heading is a very important one. I think it is there to help out start-ups and those who are struggling in the markets.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister answered well that each district has co-operative officers and other officers. He will agree with me that in the last few months or a year, he has tried to empower a good number of people with K2,000 or K5,000, which is great. My issue concerns us from the rural areas. Despite the hon. Minister’s good intentions, the money does not reach people like him in Chitambo and myself in Nyimba. You hear that 200 people in a certain market in Lusaka have received money, but when you check in Nyimba, you will find that only one or two people received money. Is it that we have problems with officers or is it because help to the small markets is done by the district administration officers (DAOs) instead of the specific officers at district level?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we ask questions, we should always look at how the question has been couched. This is in relation to Chitambo District. I know as the hon. Minister was answering, he opened up the question, but this is a constituency-based question. However, I will allow the hon. Minister to answer.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, we must also bear in mind that this is a new ministry. We are developing solutions to cater for those in rural areas, and soon, I will come with a ministerial statement. The hon. Member of Parliament will be engaged to see how we can reach out to the small and medium enterprises (SMEs) that are in the rural areas very soon.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I just want to confirm if the co-operatives and entrepreneur officers have been sent to Chitambo. If so, could I have their names?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, my records are showing that each district is supposed to have co-operative/entrepreneurship officers. For Chitambo, I have to double-check to make sure that the officer is there. If the officer is not there, we should immediately be able to attach an officer there.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

The hon. Member would like to know the names of those officers. Maybe, the best way is for the hon. Member for Chitambo to engage the hon. Minister, and then he will get those details.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, my brother, has a very powerful ministry. One way in which the hon. Minister can ensure that his ministry is known elsewhere is by utilising the media. If that fails, we want to see him even in Lundazi, at our market, so that he is known. He said that his ministry is new. So, I do not think coming up with a ministerial statement will touch our lives. When is he planning to visit all his markets? He has a very big clientele to deal with.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I have toured the provinces except for the Eastern Province where the hon. Member of Parliament, who has just asked the question, comes from. I am scheduled to be in the Eastern Province very soon, and I should be able to engage with our people there.

I thank you, Madam.

______

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURE CODE (Amendment) BILL, 2023

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Bill, 2023. The object of the Bill is to amend the Criminal Procedure Code so as to:

1. make the offence of stock theft non-bailable;

1. empower all classes of the subordinate court to commit matters required to be committed for trial to the High Court;

1. enhance the powers of the Chief Justice relating to issuance of rules under the Act; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

 I will ask you to repeat what I said to just confirm whether you were listening, hon. Member for Dundumwezi.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Let us have order.

The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 11^th October, 2023.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

PENAL CODE (Amendment) BILL, 2023

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2023. The object of the Bill is to amend the Penal Code so as to:

1. enhance the provisions relating to the offence of stock theft; and

1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance. The Committee –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I will repeat that.

The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights and Governance. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 11^th October, 2023.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND, 2023

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha) (on behalf of the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, with leave of the House, I wish to defer the presentation of the Bill to a later date.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to.  Leave granted.

The presentation of the Bill, by leave, accordingly deferred.

______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate Resumed)

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the thanks of this Assembly be recorded for the exposition of public policy contained in the speech delivered to this House by His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia on the occasion of the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly on Friday, 8^th September, 2023.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion Seconded?

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, in the first place, let me thank you for according me the privilege to move the Motion of Thanks on the Republican President’s Speech. Also, allow me to congratulate and thank Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, on delivering a sincere, inspiring, thoughtful and development-focused speech to this august House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, the President’s Speech captured the achievements gained so far, the challenges experienced as well as the Government’s policy direction for the foreseeable future. Certainly, the speech lived up to its theme, which is, ‘Building on the Socio-Economic Gains for Improved Livelihoods and a Better Zambia’. So, in moving my Motion, I will unpack some of the important issues contained in the President’s Speech.

Madam Speaker, let me start by expressing my gratitude to the President for being honest with Zambians when he addressed this august House last Friday. The President did not shy away from talking about challenges confronting the country as well as the high price of mealie-meal. I am happy to note that the President highlighted measures his Government is taking to deal with the challenges. For instance, with regard to the increased price of mealie-meal, the President assured Zambians that he would stimulate production in the agriculture sector through transformative interventions like enhancing agriculture support using the Comprehensive Agricultural Transformation Support Programme (CATSP), offering attractive purchase price of maize, promoting water harvesting and improved irrigation techniques, establishing of a credit window to support small-scale farmers, just to mention a few. With agriculture being the bedrock of economic transformation and job creation, it is expected that these interventions will make the prices of mealie-meal and other food commodities more affordable, bearable and stable.

Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to note that the President is fully aware of the impact of the high price of petroleum products on our local economy. However, we are all aware that the cost of petroleum is purely driven by prices in the global supply chain. Therefore, to mitigate the impact of high fuel prices, the President announced the operationalisation of the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline to transport cheaper diesel from Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania into Zambia. This will help to ease the pressure on our citizens and reduce production costs for various industries that depend on diesel to drive economic activities. In addition, this will help to save the country’s roads from damage and maintenance costs, owing to the bulk petroleum transportation.

Madam Speaker, on human and social development, the President mentioned his commitment to constructing maternity annexes with water reticulation at every health centre in Zambia. As you are aware, maternal, neonatal and child health (MNCH) remains a priority for the United Party for National Development (UPND) led administration, hence, the Government’s commitment to reducing the neonatal mortality rate from twenty-five to twelve deaths per 1,000 live births, in line with the Sustainable Development Target 3.2. In this regard, the President’s emphasis on the construction of maternity wings will help to safeguard and preserve the lives of mothers and their new born babies. In addition to this, the President announced that the Government would recruit 3,000 health workers in 2023. I will repeat that: The President announced that the Government would recruit 3,000 health workers in 2023.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, in addition to neonatal and child health, I am happy to note that, the Government has placed a premium on our children, who comprise 53.4 per cent of Zambia’s population. It is also gratifying to learn that the majority of children have been enrolled in school as a result of the Free Education Policy. To realise universal access to quality education for these learners, the President, last Friday, committed his Government to continuing to construct more schools, to recruit an addition of 4,500 teachers in 2023, and to procure locally produced desks.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

On good governance environment, Madam Speaker, in the last two years of the UPND rule, the country has witnessed enhanced decentralisation and devolution of public services. I am excited to note that the President reaffirmed his Government’s commitment to continuing to actualise the Decentralisation Policy. The Government has walked the talk by attaching 34,963 civil servants to local authorities to build their capacity in performing the devolved functions.

Madam Speaker, it is also gratifying to know that the Government has commenced the transfer of assets to local authorities for the Ministries with devolved functions. Further, the bottlenecks associated with approving Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Projects have been dealt with by devolving this function to provinces from the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, I want to commend the President for his commitment to infrastructure development, particularly the construction of parliamentary constituency offices. Once implemented, it will lead to the realisation of the National Assembly of Zambia’s oversight and Legislative roles at sub-national levels, as well as enhancing meaningful linkages between Parliamentarians and constituents in the decentralisation aspirations. Previously, the construction of constituency offices was seen as an expensive undertaking, which is why there are no National Assembly Constituency Offices constructed in 111 constituencies. I am elated that the President has made this policy pronouncement to finance and facilitate the acquisition of titled land for the construction of these offices.

Madam Speaker, let me conclude my Motion by echoing the President’s crusade to prevent and fight corruption in all its forms as it affects the most vulnerable people in our society, deters investment, weakens economic growth and, above all, undermines the rule of law. For these reasons, I am in full support of His Excellency the President’s determination to heighten prosecution of offenders with civility. I am confident that, under President Hakainde Hichilema’s reign, the levels of corruption will drastically reduce.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I beg to move.

Thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mulebwa: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank you for the privilege accorded to me to second the Motion, ably moved by Hon. Sibeso Sefulo, the Member of Parliament for Mwandi Constituency. On account of limited time, my debate on the Motion of Thanks will focus on food security and local production of D-Compound Fertiliser, tourism and skills development.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President acknowledged the challenges the country is facing regarding adequate supply of maize, which has resulted in high mealie meal prices. He attributed this to regional and global supply deficits due to climate change and instability in some parts of the world. To mitigate the challenge, the New Dawn Administration is encouraging commercial and other farmers to, among other things, venture into early maize production and guarantee a ready market. This is commendable as such interventions may help to reduce mealie meal prices. However, I would like to urge the Government to do the following:

1.  to quickly facilitate the local production of basal dressing fertiliser which is the D-Compound Fertiliser. The high cost of importation is negatively affecting food production and the supply chain. Local production will help to eliminate middlemen and cartels in the distribution of fertiliser, who significantly contribute to the high cost of fertilizer; and

1. to expedite the implementation of the Comprehensive Agricultural Transformation Support Programme (CATSP). We are eagerly waiting to see the difference between CATSP and Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President informed this House that the number of international tourist arrivals increased to 605,650 in the first half of 2023 compared to 496,456 in the corresponding period of 2022, mainly attributed to the deliberate policy of waiving VISA requirements and abolition of retention fees in the tourism sector. In addition, His Excellency the President stated that the number of domestic visits to tourism sites increased to 301,758 in 2022 from 235,392 in 2021. On this note, I would like to state that just as we incentivise foreign tourists, let the Government quickly ensure the implementation of His Excellency, the President’s directive and make a clarion call to tour operators to reduce tourism prices for local tourists. 

Madam speaker, it is my earnest expectation that in the next address, His Excellency the President will report that there were more local tourists than foreign ones. Further, I want to strongly urge the Government to look into reviewing salaries of staff in the tourism sector. It is no wonder that most of them rely on tips from clients to make ends meet.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President talked of increased enrolments in our skills training and youth resource centres from 76,500 in 2022 to 86,700 in 2023. The increase in enrolment numbers is commendable. Skills development is an important sector in the developmental agenda. It helps students think beyond grades and also helps them tap into their capabilities, develop real-life skills and prepare themselves to contribute to economic and national development. However, the Government should go a step further in ensuring that youth graduates from these centres are also given priority in accessing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This will allow them to engage in productive ventures and projects, such as construction of schools and health facilities under the CDF. In addition, I urge the Government to urgently expedite the establishment of innovation hubs beyond the North-Western Province.

With these few remarks, I beg to second the Motion. I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you so much for according me this opportunity to make a contribution to the debate on the speech tendered to this House by His Excellency the President.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President came and opened the Third Session. The next time he will come will be to open the Fourth Session and then after that, he will be opening the Fifth Session and that is it.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Therefore, it is important, Madam Speaker, that as we only remain with two more Sessions, people begin to be told things that they can easily relate with.

Madam Speaker, on page 4 and paragraph eleven of His Excellency the President’s Speech, he said:

“Upon assuming office, our priority was to restore the rule of law, fix the economy by sealing leakages, introducing financial prudence and maintaining macroeconomic stability for sustained growth.”

Madam Speaker, these are the things which His Excellency the President wished to undertake as soon as the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government came into office; restore the rule of law.

Madam Speaker, I know of one Independent hon. Member of Parliament who was arrested in the precinct of this Assembly.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us avoid debating ourselves. That is against the rules.

Mr Kafwaya: I will not mention any name.

Madam Speaker: No, even then. Just the reference to the fact that an hon. member was arrested here is against the rules. Let us stick to the content of the speech. Let us not bring ourselves into the debate.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, in as far as the rule of law is concerned, I know for a fact that an hon. Member of Parliament was arrested at the Members’ Motel as well as outside of this gate against the privileges –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I have guided that, please, let us avoid debating ourselves.

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members as we debate, let us avoid debating ourselves. The rules are there, and they are very clear.

Refer to the Standing Orders if you are not very clear on the rules, starting form Standing order 56. It will you the process of what is involved in speaking on the Floor of the House, time limits, manner of speaking in the House and when a Member cannot speak.

Those are the rules that we have outlined for ourselves. So, let us stick to them. The most important of all is ‘let us not debate ourselves’.

You may proceed, hon. Member for Lunte.  

Mr Kafwaya: Madam, the Powers and Privileges Act must be abided by in the discharge of our functions. What we have begun to see is alien not only to the National Assembly of Zambia, but also to Commonwealth Parliaments. The Patriotic Front (PF) should not regroup. If it does, the President will go round it and hold it by its neck.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I am talking about the rule of law and the pronouncements that have been made in this country, which we are all aware of.

Madam Speaker, no one is above the law, but the treatment of all Zambians must reflect in what the President is saying concerning the restoration of the rule of law. Let the people of Zambia out there judge us on whether restraining the PF from regrouping is exercising the rule of law or it is, in fact, rule of man.

Madam Speaker, let me move on. I have skipped a lot of my material but I will move on. One of the things the President talked about was fixing the economy. This is one of the things I quoted in the President's Speech.  The economy, to some people, is the microeconomic indicator and to others, it is economic opportunities. To the poor people, it is their ability to eat nshima twice a day and breakfast in the morning. Today, how many Zambians can eat nshima twice a day and breakfast in the morning, even if it were kandolo?

Today, Madam Speaker, how much is the cost of mealie meal? How much is the cost of fuel? How much is the cost of transport? Today, how much are the people of Zambia spending on communication. Even when they are on social media, how long do bundles last? These are what the economics of our people may mean.

Madam Speaker, I heard my hon. Colleague, as she moved the Motion, say that the price of fuel is driven by external factors, …

Ms Sefulo: Yes!

Mr Kafwaya: … therefore, the President will solve external issues through local means. The Tanzania Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) is a local issue. You cannot solve a problem in Ukraine using a local solution.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: This is why I am saying that it is critically important to begin to show –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members on my right.

Mr Kafwaya remained on his feet.

Madam Speaker: Please, if you have any point that you want to counter –

Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kafwaya resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: If you have a point on which you want to counter or rebut what the hon. Member is saying during his debate, just write it down. You will be able to respond or rebut when the time comes for you to speak. Our rules, the Standing Orders, do not allow us to debate or interject while another Member is on the Floor. Let us allow him to express himself, of course, within the confines of our Standing Orders.

May the hon. Member continue with his debate.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the President will fix the economy by sealing leakages. So, he has sealed the leakages when planes can land illegally at Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA).

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, has he sealed leakages, while gold at Kasenseli, in Mpika, and Copper in Chingola is just being moved. Has the President has sealed leakages with a ministry giving two contracts on the same day to two individuals with different pricing? One of the two was awarded a contract of US$1,502 per metric tonne of fertiliser and the other, US$992 per metric tonne. Have these leakages been sealed?

Madam Speaker, it is crucially important to begin to tell the people of Zambia what is attainable and what they can relate with. I will end with, "Introduce financial prudence", which the President talked about and I ask: In two years, how many foreign trips has the President made in this financial prudence? How many?

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, in 2022 and 2023, there were Supplementary Budgets, meaning that the Government failed to stick to its expenditure plan. What is this prudence we are talking about?

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, what does it cost the people of Zambia all these issues, including the production of the President’s Speech, which he would come and present to them fifteen minutes late when Her Honour the Vice-President told us –

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

There is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Minister for the Southern Province. What is the point of order?

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity. You know me, I rarely rise on points of order unless …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: … it is absolutely compelling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I have been seated here for seven minutes. In terms of sections 64 and 65 of our Standing Orders, in respect of a debate and submission on the Floor of this House being factual and relevant, I have struggled for seven minutes to make head and tail of the debate by the hon. Member for Lunte. He touches this issue and before we get sense out of it, he jumps to another issue.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: He is all over like Chilingalinga.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Meaning that without a defined manner of debate so that the citizens out there who are keenly following debate on the Floor of this House and expect the Patriotic Front (PF) to bring substantive debates to offer quality checks and balances, are failing to follow, thereby the people being let down. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte, therefore, in order to come with a wish-wash debate on the Floor of this House being, the lead debater for the Opposition?

I need your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members, I think the point of order has been sufficiently debated.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member for Lunte continue with his debate.

Mr Kafwaya momentarily stared at Mr Mweetwa.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: He is now confused.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, how much does it cost the people of Zambia all this Government undertaking, I said, including the printing of this (waving a document) Speech which the President would come to deliver from the throne fifteen minutes late. Her Honour the Vice-President told us that he would be here at 1025 hours, but he only sat there at 1040 hours.

Madam Speaker, small things as well as big things must matter.

Thank you, so much.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I cannot say anything.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to add two or three sentences to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of this House today.

Madam Speaker, to start with, I want to thank the President for never missing to talk about three things whenever he is here. These are love, unity, and development. Whenever the President comes here, he makes sure that the country is reminded of love; that people ought to love each other and that it is from there that they will get united and work together for to achieve the development that we are seeking.

Madam Speaker, it is under the New Dawn Administration that we have seen that primary schools are now filled with pupils because of free education. Free education is one issue that has brought about sanity to this country. Many schools were empty because of the hardships that parents went through because they needed to pay for their children to get to Grade 1 up to university.

Madam Speaker, what we are now seeing is that everyone is at liberty to willfully register his/her children at any time because of the free education the citizens of this country are enjoying. The issue of free education has really created the need to have more classrooms because of the numbers that we now have. We are lucky that the New Dawn Government has brought up the issue of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which has enabled hon. Members of Parliament in all constituencies to ensure that we construct more classrooms for the betterment of our constituencies.  As a result, the influx we were witnessing of people moving from the rural setup to urban areas following schools issues will no longer be there because all the amenities that people used to follow in the urban areas are now found in the rural setup.

Madam Speaker, the President also talked about the issue of decentralisation. This is a policy that has been talked about for a couple of years. However, we are happy now that we have an administration that has seen it sensible to implement this concept. This is the concept that contributes to what we call good governance. It is one of the tenets of good governance. Now, people can choose what they want to be done in their constituencies, which was not there before. When people talk about the issue of decentralisation, people in our constituencies through what we call Ward Development Committee to the Constituency Development Committees are able to choose how they want to spend the monies that have been given to them in their constituencies. This alone is a plus to the nation because citizens sit and decide on what they want done in their respective areas.

Madam Speaker, when we talk about the issue of good governance, let me single out the element or tenet of good governance which is accountability, which the President talked about; the rule of law and respect for human rights.

Madam Speaker, we have heard how people are now championing amending or repealing some of these instruments that we found as the New Dawn Government that were operated under before. Why are they doing that? To me, it is purely because of greed. People have to realise that from the time the New Dawn Government came into power, there are no instruments, so far, that it has repealed. So, it becomes a bit disheartening to hear that people who enjoyed the years back under these same instruments would want this new Government to repeal them because they are on the other side. We want to make clear that what was good for James should be good for Herbert as well. This is the one way that we are going to ensure that all the laws or rules that we pass or operate under are those that will definitely stand and serve the interest of the citizens.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of respect for human rights, as I speak now, people in this country are free to enjoy civil and political liberties. It is a prima facie issue that does not need to be debated because everyone in this country enjoys those liberties. We have seen how people have decided to regroup because they just want to ascend, but the question is: To where are they ascending? We want to ensure that this country is governed in a manner that is above board and will serve people’s interests.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mapani: Madam Speaker, we have an obligation to secure, maintain, and promote this peace for the good of the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I submit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Munashabantu (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Mapatizya Constituency, through me, a chance to debate the Motion on the Floor. I will not waste much time because I want to bring out the issue concerning the mining sector which the President mentioned in his Speech, on Friday last week, the New Dawn Government having brought order and sanity.

Madam Speaker, over the past years, we have seen how the mining sector has been mismanaged. The Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) has not been operational for many years, yet mining is one of the major economic drivers in this country. According to His Excellency, the KCM now has reached a resolve with the Government, under new conditions, to start operating instead of debating or, for the lack of a better term, going to court all the time. I am not a legal practitioner, but I know they call it court litigation. We have arrived at a conclusion and this is bringing hope, especially to the people of Mapatizya because it sits on many minerals that have not been explored.

Madam Speaker, the President mentioned bringing order and normalising artisanal mining licences and small-scale mining. In the past, Mapatizya has been overlooked despite the fact that it sits on rich mineral deposits; the whole of Mapatizya. As a rural Member of Parliament, my hope in bringing about development is in mining. However, Mapatizya has been overlooked. In the past, licences have been given to foreign nationals. We thank God that when the Government came into power, it froze all the licences to bring about order and sanity, which the President talked about on Friday. We are looking forward, as the people of Mapatizya, to order and sanity coming and artisanal mining licences being given to the locals, unlike in the past when we saw the Chinese and the whites displacing people from their traditional land in the name of being licence holders.

Madam Speaker, talking about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the President mentioned that the Government is going to employ 3,000 health workers. We are hopeful that with the President’s pronouncement to employ 3,000 more health in addition to the 30,000 already employed, we are going in the right direction. The President is steering this Government in the right direction.

Many clinics and maternity annexes have been built in the country. I think most of the constituencies are doing that right now under the directive by the Government to construct many maternity annexes. My constituency has seen an increase in the number of these maternity annexes. We have built five clinics using the 2022 CDF.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of schools, we have built many schools. We have filled them with desks, but very few teachers. With the pronouncements made on Friday, we all heard that 4,500 more teachers will be employed. This is bringing hope, especially to the rural constituencies like mine, and as a result, we are saying “bravo” to this Government and long live the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. 

Madam Speaker, I submit.

Thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: I was still looking at the hon. Member for Lumezi Constituency. Welcome back.  

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for this opportunity. First of all, I am a bearer of a message of gratitude from the people of Nkana to His Excellency the President, for having gifted us the Chibuluma Road.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for providing me a platform, on behalf of the people of Nkana, to continue to press over the need to have the Chibuluma Road attended to for it had been a thorny issue. I am glad and, through you and everyone here, I want to say ‘thank you’ to the President for a promise fulfilled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I want to speak on an issue that was highlighted in the President’s Address. The issue is on the mines because I come from a constituency with mining activities. Of course, I want to take note that the Government has announced that it has reached an agreement with Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). What we wait to see is action. There is a revelation that Vedanta Resources Limited is going to pump in US$ 1 billion over five years. What we wait to see is when this will translate into action. 

Madam Speaker, you are aware that many contractors and suppliers have been owed for many years. Some of them have had their properties repossessed by banks because they had gone to borrow to service the orders they got from the KCM. So, again, we want to see when this pronouncement will translate into action. When will contractors and suppliers receive the payments for the goods they supplied to the KCM? These are things on which we would like the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to give a much elaborate statement to highlight, particularly, the operation order over the issue of the KCM. 

Madam Speaker, my constituency sits on and shares the larger part of Mopani Copper Mines Plc and for over two years, the Government has continued to assure us that it is going resolve the issue atMopani Copper Mines. The people of Nkana are yearning and waiting for the time when the pronounced resolution is going to be arrived at. With all the happenings at Mopani Copper Mines, our people’s lives are in chaos. So, we hope that a resolution could be arrived at very soon.

Madam Speaker, for me, I think that we have gotten a raw deal from the copper mining sector, and it has been overrated. For many times, mining companies have cried to the Government for a favourable tax regime. Not long ago, we gifted the mining companies by making the Mineral Royalty Tax deductible on the promise that it was, firstly, going to spur investment and, secondly, was going to enable mining companies to employ many Zambians. What have we seen happening? The opposite has been seen happening. The projected production figures of copper have continued to go down when they promised that if we attended to the issue of the tax regime, copper production figures would begin to rise to 3 million tonnes in the next decade. We lost two years, and as we anticipate production of figures for 2023, the figures have plummeted further. Mining companies have duped us. They are liars. 

Madam Speaker, what does this speak to us? Perhaps, we need to look to other mining facets. Here, we are talking about gold deposits. We are not only talking about the Kasenseli Gold Mine, but we are also talking about the gold mines in Mpika, Lundazi and all those in the eastern parts of Zambia, and the gold mines Mumbwa. Does it not bother us that we could be sitting on huge deposits of gold, yet this country continues to face the challenges it does? Gold would have taken us above these troubled waters in terms of the economy. 

Madam Speaker, so, I challenge the New Dawn Government. It is enough of the copper. We are getting a raw deal out of it. Why do we not focus on sugilite, for argument’s sake? I have given calculations of how much sugilite is costing. For argument’s sake, if you go to the internet, sugilite costs US$15 per carat. That translates to US$75,000 per tonne. That is a lot of money. The 14 tonnes of sugilite that is sitting in Kabwe, by what is on the internet, can give us a billion dollars. Anyone who has anything contrary to what I am saying can come and challenge me. 

Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that we have many minerals that can help us rise above our troubled waters in terms of the economy. Why are we not pursuing them aggressively? Why are we not paying attention? It cannot take us two years to resolve the Kasenseli Gold Mine issue. There were no problems that would take us two years to resolve. Why has the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development not come to give us a comprehensive statement over sugilite, lithium and gold because that is what can help us rise above these challenges, not copper? These are just duping us. So, I want to place it on record that our priorities are wrong. Let us stop focusing on copper and focus on these lucrative minerals.

Madam Speaker, the world today is going for clean energy. The lithium in Mapatizya can help us rise above this problem. Why are we sleeping? 

Madam Speaker, as regards good governance and the rule of law, the rule of law entails the rule by the law. It forbids the arbitrary exercise of power. I went to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security yesterday because a young man in my constituency has been in police custody and today is the ninth day, over a charge of theft and criminal trespass – a bogus charge. For crying out loud, he has been in custody for nine days. However, we expect to be treated in the same way we should treat citizens. There is no justification for a young man accused of trespassing be kept in police custody for nine days. There is no justification. When the President makes a pronouncement over the rule of law, the custodians or the ones mandated to ensure that the pronouncement is realised. There is no justification. When we make pronouncements and speak loud that we are living by the rule of law, let it be seen by action. That young man should not be in custody for nine days. It is unheard of. He is a Zambian. We should never treat Zambians like they are foreigners. 

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: We should not worship people. We should live by the rule of law.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Finshi ulefwaya naiwe? Leka mpwishe.

Madam Speaker: Order! 

Mr Andeleki rose to raise his point of order.

Madam Speaker: First of all, resume your seat. Let me say something.

Mr B. Mpundu resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, we are one family. Let us treat each other as such, with due respect to each other. If a point of order is raised, there is no need to challenge the other hon. Member why he or she is raising a point of order. He or she is entitled. You do not have to point at him/her and challenge him or her. I think that is not acceptable behaviour for an hon. Member of Parliament.  So, hon. Member for Nkana, please desist from that conduct in future. Do not do that.

Hon. Member for Katombola, what is your point of order?

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing the people of Katombola, through me, to raise a point order pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 65 No. (1)(b), which is about the manner of debate and the authenticity or truthfulness of information.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member for Nkana in order to come to this House and say that there has been someone who has been in police cells for nine days, without laying evidence on the Floor of this august House?

Interruptions

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, is he in order to suggest that this Government is abusing the rule of law when he has not even indicated and brought any evidence to suggest that the suspect has availed sureties or anything? Is he in order to come here and start misleading himself and the nation?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, as we debate, let us ensure that we are factual. If we make any allegation, we ... 

Mr B. Mpundu: What?

Madam Speaker: ... should be able to tender –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, why are you saying ‘what’? Whom are you saying ‘what’ to?

Interruptions 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, you were saying ‘what’ as I was talking. Who are you addressing when saying ‘what’?

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam Speaker: No, that is not acceptable behaviour, hon. Member for Nkana. I advised and told you that, please, desist from that unbecoming behaviour. You are an hon. Member of Parliament and when I am addressing or guiding you, please, take it as such. I am just guiding you, in accordance with our Standing Orders. Even the manner in which you are sitting as I am talking, what is –

Laughter

Madam Speaker: No, let us respect one another. It is important to respect ourselves. So, hon. Member if you have any evidence to lay on the Table of this House to prove that, indeed, there is a person who has been unreasonably held in detention for nine days, you can lay it on the Table of the House. Otherwise, please, do not refer to it.

You may proceed.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, what will help us address issues is when we face reality. I am not mad to allege that I went to the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security for him to insinuate that, …

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I have made a ruling. Do not challenge.

Mr Mulunda interjected.

Mr B. Mpundu: I am not mad.

These are things, Madam Speaker, we are confronted with.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, please, I am warning you. If you continue, …

Mr B. Mpundu: No!

Madam Speaker: … in that line, I am going to curtail your debate.

Mr B. Mpundu: No!

Madam Speaker, this country needs soberness, …

Mr B. Mpundu had one hand in his pocket while speaking.

Madam Speaker: You are even putting your hands in your pocket.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, let me say this, …

Madam Speaker: Wind up your debate, hon. Member.

Mr B. Mpundu: I am here to represent my people, …

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, wind up your debate.

Mr B. Mpundu: I am winding up.

I am here to represent my people. When I come here, hon. Colleagues, I do not come to play. When I bring up issues, these are issues our people.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, now you are challenging what I guided on. Please, let us not go that route.

Mr Fube interjected.

Madam Speaker: Let us not go that route. I am warning you. Please, stick to your debate.

If you have nothing further to add, you can resume your seat.

Mr B. Mpundu: The rule of law entails the rule by the law.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr B. Mpundu: If a person is arrested, he must be taken to court within forty-eight hours.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Your time is up. Thank you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulunda interjected.

Mr B. Mpundu: Iwe!

Mr B. Mpundu pointed at Mr Mulunda.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, please, leave the House.

Mr Fube interjected.

Mr B. Mpundu rose to leave the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Chinkuli: You have no respect!

Mr Kapyanga: Akesa mailo!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, please, withdraw the gesture you made towards the other hon. Member before you leave the House. Can you withdraw and apologise.

Mr Amutike: Very pompous!

Mr B. Mpundu: By the order of the Hon. Madam Speaker, I have withdrawn the pointing and the word ‘iwe’.

However, hon. colleagues, these are serious matters.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Thank you. You may leave the House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me the opportunity to add a word to the debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address to this House. In representing the people of Sesheke, I want to, firstly, thank the President, especially because he acknowledged the challenges that the citizenry is facing. The first step in finding a solution to a problem is to accept that, indeed, there is a problem. I am happy that my President did not shy away from or politicise the high cost of mealie meal, which to me is very important for a leader.

Ms Sefulo: Hear, Hear!

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, the President touched on quite a number of subjects that are important for the growth and development of this country and, especially for the people of Sesheke.

Standing here, Madam Speaker, I want to confirm and affirm that Sesheke Constituency has responded positively to the President’s directive of ensuring quality healthcare services for the citizens of this country. With the help of WaterAid and On Call Africa, Sesheke has, so far, benefitted seventeen multifaceted fully water-reticulated maternity annexes, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kangombe: … with five remaining so that we can have a hundred per cent coverage in terms of maternity annexes.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that WaterAid as well as On Call Africa, in supplementing the Government’s efforts in ensuring that we reach hundred per cent coverage in terms of quality healthcare services, also have interventions going on even in my neighbouring constituency, Mwandi, which is represented by my elder sister.

Ms Sefulo: Hear, hear!

Mr Kangombe: Other interventions are in Kazungula Constituency, represented by my hon. Colleague, here, …

Mr Andeleki: Hear, hear!

Mr Kangombe: … Monze Constituency, as well as, Nkeyema, the constituency represented my senior man.

Madam Speaker, in the past, it was very difficult to ensure that the aspirations of the people were well met, basically, because of limited funding with regards to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). In responding to the challenges of development that solely sit on the shoulders of an hon. Member, maybe, because of the citizenry not understanding the role of an hon. Member, the increment in the CDF has, so far, in the past year, to those hon. Members who really mean well for their constituencies, made milestones. Sesheke has, so far, benefitted from the 2022 CDF and is yet to even do more with the 2023 CDF.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, we have built quite a number of classrooms to ensure that we respond to the call for free education that has seen a number of pupils going back to school. The President, in his understanding of the demand that comes with these big numbers of pupils that are going back to school, compared to the previous teacher recruitments that I will not mention, which everyone knows, has, again, added on so that we should reduce on the pupil-teacher ratio by employing more teachers. Further, because he understands that there can never be development, economic growth, or even human resource without the aspect of health, recruitment in the health sector is coming. Hon. Colleagues, …

Mr Chikote: What more do you want?

Mr Kangombe: … what more do you want?

Madam Speaker, it is only important that, as he requested, all of us as well as other leaders engage each other in civility. Let us bring solutions to the table. That is the kind of leadership that we want, someone who invites you to the table to bring solutions to the criticisms and the problems that our people are facing because we are all co-leaders. We have been called to serve. We are just one per cent of the 18 million plus Zambian citizens who are so privileged to come and serve on behalf of the rest. It is only expected of us to reciprocate the call by bringing positive criticism to the President.

Madam Speaker, I want my senior man, the hon. Minister of Agriculture, to note that the importance of rain-fed agriculture is a thing of the past, and we should not dwell much on that. We have to go the irrigation route as well because the effects of climate change have come to stay. As long as we rely on rain-fed agriculture, then, one year we are not going to harvest anything. It is only important that we come up with other interventions and ensure that we produce more. The idea of increasing the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) money is to stimulate farmers to produce more maize because many, in the past, like myself, produced a lot of – what do you call it – ma nawa.

Ma nawa kiñi mwa sikuwa kezeli?

Ms Sefulo: Beans!

Mr Kangombe: Beans.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity that has been given to the people of Chiengi, through me, to add a voice …

Mr Chinkuli: Welcome back.

Rev. Katuta: Somebody says ‘welcome back’. Thank you so much.

Mr Mwambazi: Welcome back.

Rev. Katuta: Thank you.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta:  … to this important speech on the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly by the President.

Mr Speaker, I will not take much of the House’s time. However, for the first time since I came back to Parliament for the second term, this was the most disappointing speech. It actually was like the previous one, but written using another kind of English. I think it is like what those of us who go to night school do in trying to get some education by using the chat alternative application. You just put what you have written and then it changes the language. I think this is what happened.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President was supposed to give a progress report on what had been achieved in the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, the President spoke about securing debt restructuring agreements and I was wondering the impact it has had on the people of Zambia. If that, indeed, has had any impact, the cost of living by now should have been the evidence, reflecting that, indeed, this has added value to our country.

Mr Speaker, I am so concerned that the President spoke so much about things I felt, like I have mentioned, were not necessary to someone in Chienge. Maybe we, as a House, should allow the Head of State or all of us to speak in vernacular so that the people who sent us here can understand what is being said to them.

Mr Speaker, if I look at the cost of living and the inflation rate, which is now at 9.9 per cent, to me, it looks like it is still a double digit. There has not been much of a difference. If, indeed, the inflation is falling, then the cost of living should not be what it is now. Everyone is complaining about what is happening in our country. People cannot even afford three meals. There is nothing that we can afford. Fuel is so expensive. Mealie meal is also expensive. If you talk of the lending rates at the banks, you will realise that they are also high. Therefore, when the President was saying that he has made some progress, I really got concerned. I want the President to tell the nation the truth as it is. The President avoided talking about the cost of living and it was everyone’s desire to hear the President talk about how this Government is going to arrest the cost of living which is so high. The President did not mention it because he knew very well that it is practically impossible to bring down the price of a 25 kg mealie meal bag to K50, as promised.

Mr Speaker, the President went on to talk about rain-fed growing of maize in our country. He also talked about irrigation. How are the people of Chienge going to undertake this irrigation? Who is going to grow this maize? It is good that we understand the theory, but let us be practical. I think this is some kind of a joke.

Mr Speaker, the President went ahead to talk about 149 secondary schools that were built by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, though he did not mention the Patriotic Front (PF). The truth of the matter is that there is Kalungwishi Secondary School in Chienge, which is not among the schools mentioned. The President said this Government has completed the construction of all the structures whose construction was started by the previous Governments. However, I find that to be untrue and quite upsetting for the people of Chienge.

Mr Speaker, I also want to add something on one more issue and that is that the rule of law should not be selective. I was really disappointed to see that we have foreigners who come into our country not as diplomats but as criminals; landing in our country at night but being treated like diplomats. It is wrong. If they came in as diplomats, then that is different, but they did not come in as diplomats, yet they were given special treatment. They were driven in a minibus when we have ama kasalanga. They were supposed to be driven in ama kasalanga and kept in the filthy cells in which I have also spent despite being a diplomat in this country.

Mr Speaker, still on the rule of law, at Emmasdale Police Station, in the room next to the cells I was in were thirty-one boys who have not seen a courtroom since February and I have a list of them. Why should the Government just concentrate on politicians when we have poor people languishing in cells? What is going on? Is the rule of law only applicable to hon. Members of Parliament who are not members of the United Party for National Development (UPND)? What about those who are languishing there? Let us be serious when we are being addressed here. This is the reason I am saying that the President should come, maybe, and speak in the vernacular so that the nation will judge his speech; not the elite because most of them are members of the UPND and to them, there is nothing wrong in keeping someone in cells from as far back as February to date and without them ever seeing a courtroom. It is just wrong and is inhumane. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity but I insist that the President failed to address how he was going to bring down the high cost of living. He deliberately decided to not tell the nation, but the nation is listening and watching. The price of a bag of mealie meal should be brought down to K50, as promised.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, allow me to just make a few comments on the Motion on the President’s Speech that was delivered on Friday. I want to say that the President could be one of the few honest human beings in Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, I am going to demonstrate that. He came to the House to give us a report on what the Government has done and is doing to walk the talk? In that, the President made it crystal clear that it is not a smooth path, it has not been a smooth journey, and it had ups and downs. There are many challenges in everything that the Government has been trying to do, but, today, we can have people …

Hon. Government Member: Who slept in cells!

Laughter

Mr Mulunda: … who can say that the President did not say anything. That is being dishonest because one of the issues that the President spoke about is the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and it is in every constituency. In every constituency, people were employed as teachers and health workers, and the CDF was given. So, things are happening in every constituency unless there is one in which they are not although people therein; our children, nieces and nephews have enrolled for skills development.

Mr Chikote: Including Chienge!

Mr Mulunda: Yes, including Chienge, of course. There are people who have gone there and this is not a lie. There are classrooms being constructed there.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about development under the United Party for National Development (UPND) in a space of two years, we should look at the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road and the Kasama Airport. However, what was happening in more than ten years?

Hon. Government Members: Nothing! 

Mr Mulunda:  Nothing was happening, yet they had the instruments of power and the funds at their disposal. They borrowed more than what they could actually handle, but what did they do with it? Did we see the airport getting improved? Did we see the roads being worked on, the CDF being increased or people getting employed? It was a big zero.

Mr Speaker, however, when somebody comes here and admits that yes, a bag of mealie meal is out of reach for many Zambians, that is being honest. He admits that we are not like others that would beat you up when you complain. We accept and admit that the price of mealie meal is out of reach, but we are doing everything possible to address the situation. That is being honest. We should not put on a collar like the one I am wearing here and want to be called an honest person, no. Let your actions speak because even the other book, that I will not mention, says that, “We will know them by their fruits”. It is as simple as that. We will know them by their fruits not what they preach about, but what they do.

Mr Speaker, so, the New Dawn Government of the Republic of Zambia, under the able leadership of the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has done what no government has ever done. That you know. No Government has employed the numbers that this Government has done in two years. When they are saying that this Government has not done anything, I wonder because we found this nation under load shedding. Is it still there in Chienge?

Rev Katuta: It is!

Mr Mulunda: I doubt because we need somebody else to come and tell us the truth because that is not true. The truth is that this country has seen what it has never seen before.

Mr Speaker, so, we have challenges, as a country, but I can assure them that the Government is on the right path and the path that it has taken is non-discriminatory; everybody is carried along. We used to hear the saying of not leaving anyone behind, but we were being left behind. Just yesterday when we were debating, we heard that other hon. Members of Parliament were being given more money than others, and I experienced that, but that is not happening under this Government. Under the New Dawn Government, everyone will get an equal share. What I will get is what Hon. Kafwaya will get and what I am getting is what is obtaining in his constituency. I have a Land Cruiser and he has a Land Cruiser. So, today, they cannot say that we do not share this cake equally because we are giving everyone a share because they are simply Zambian. So, let us be honest with one another. Yes, things are not okay, but we are trying. The Government is trying its best to address every situation.

Mr Speaker, I want you to know that people always get jittery when we talk about the past regime, but they should not do that because when we talk about Satan, the devil, it is because there are wrong things that he has done. So, when we are talking about the past, we should not be jittery because we want to project ourselves in the right direction so that we do not go back to ‘dununa reverse’. We do not want to go back to the violence that was there. When somebody is saying that there is no rule of law this time around, are they living in Zambia or are they foreigners who just landed? Honestly speaking, what we were seeing, the bloodshed – Right now, I hear that the tear gas is getting expired somewhere because it is not being used. Those days, tear gassing was the order of the day. I remember one incident when we were in Sesheke, the President was forced to go into the bush. I was there and these people – 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Speaker, thank you very much and greetings from the people of Roan Constituency.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Member, the point of order is on whom?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, but you are the one who told me to let him complete his debate, before I could raise my point of order.

Mr Speaker: No, I did not say I will give you the floor, but I have given you now. On whom is your point of order?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, thank you so much. My point of order is on my hon. Colleague, who was debating, Hon. Mulunda. Although the constituency of my hon. Colleague is in the Southern Province, he was happy to talk about the Kasama Airport and not the Livingstone Airport, the Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula International Airport. However, my point of order is on Standing Order No. 206, on dress code for hon. Members. It says:

“(1) The official dress code for a male member shall be –

(a) a formal executive suit, or a pair of long trousers, a shirt, a neck tie and jacket;

1. a toga;
2. a decent traditional attire such as the siziba; or”

Or the one I wore on Friday.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker,

“(d)      a safari suit, with long or short sleeves and a scarf or a neck tie.”

Mr Speaker, this is the recognised attire that you should see in this Assembly. My hon. Colleague is wearing a shirt; he is just wearing a shirt.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Is he in order to wear a shirt and purport that it is a safari suit, when we all know what a safari suit is?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. From here, what I can see is that the suit Hon. Chanda, who has just walked in, is wearing is similar to the one Hon. Mulunda is wearing. They are both of acceptable standard.

May we make progress. The hon. Member for Sinazongwe may take the Floor.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Roan may take the Floor.

Mr J. Chibuye: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the President’s Address delivered on Friday. As I do that, I bring fraternal greetings from the good people of Roan Constituency.

Mr Speaker, I just want to zero in on two or three salient issues over the address that the President presented to this august House, with the Theme ‘Building on the Socio-Economic Gains for Improved Livelihoods and a Better Zambia’. From the word go, the President emphasised economic transformation and job creation. The President talked about job creation and improving the economy. He told the people of Zambia increase production, be productive, and make sure that we add value to what we are producing. This is a very good message and it gives hope to the people of Zambia. However, I am taken aback in the sense that whilst the President is talking about these conditionalities to improve the economy of this country and create jobs, some of his lieutenants are pulling in the opposite direction. I want to find out why.

Mr Speaker, the President talked about production and adding value, and I will cite an example. In my constituency, Roan, people have come to learn how to farm. They are peasant farmers. There were 9,024 beneficiaries on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). The President was quick to say that FISP is not going away; it is going to stay here. However, why is the Ministry of Agriculture reducing the number of beneficiaries? Where we had 9,024, today, in Roan Constituency, we have 7,500. There are 37,000 farmers, and out of these, only 7,000 are going to benefit. How are we going to meet the aspirations of the President? We need to help the President achieve the targets he has set.

Mr Speaker, I equally want to acknowledge and thank the President for giving hope. Indeed, it is time that we stopped depending on rain-fed agriculture. He talked about opening up dams and starting to reinvest in harvesting the rain water that we lose most of the time during the rainy season. This is a very good gesture and it calls for all of us to start harvesting this water so that we can start growing winter maize. Once we start growing winter maize, this country shall have a bumper harvest. The law of demand dictates that when there is high production or high supply of anything, the price of that item goes down. So, we are only going to attain lower prices of mealie meal when we have a lot of production and, of course, value addition.

Mr Speaker, it was also encouraging that the President called upon all of us, even sector workers, to start looking at having, at least, a hectare of land to produce maize. He said this can be done because a credit window has been created through which everyone who wants to farm can borrow money. I am urging all those who are on FISP and those who could not benefit from FISP to go and look at the credit window and borrow money and take it there. When we borrow money, it will help us to pay back. Some beneficiaries of FISP do not pay back. Some of them do not even farm; they do not even have farms. That gave hope to the nation.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of mining, the President said that Vedanta Mining Resources Limited was coming back. We are glad that conditionalities have been laid on the table; US$1 billion will be reinvested, US$250 million be paid to suppliers, and all these other things. However, I want to urge the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, who I believe is not going to relent, to not treat Vedanta Resources Limited with kid gloves this time around,. We want the hon. Minister to ensure that what has been agreed upon with Vedanta Resources Limited and the Government is fulfilled because it is going to spur the economy of this country. I am also glad that Vedanta Resources Limited has come with more beautiful conditions. I urge the hon. Minister to also look around the mining sector and ensure that what is going to be going to Vedanta Resources Limited employees at Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) is also given to the other mining companies.  

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister and the Government for opening Shaft No. 28 in Luanshya. This shaft is now up and running. I only hope that there will be no turning back on this project. The people of Luanshya Constituency and Roan Constituency are very excited about it and are looking forward to seeing Shaft No. 28 running and contributing positively to the economic change of this country.

However, my word is that as the KCM is coming back, let the people there be employed first. The President talked about creating jobs here. Let the people of Chililabombwe, Chingola, and from where KCM is operating, be beneficiaries of this employment. Equally, in Luanshya, I urge the hon. Minister to help us ensure that the people of Roan Constituency be the first beneficiaries of job creation when it comes to employing people to work at Shaft No. 28 in Luanshya. It is not going to mean anything if people from somewhere else will come to take up jobs that can be done by the locals. There are jobs that can be done by experts, but we want the locals to benefit from and appreciate the President’s Speech.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for according me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the President’s Speech.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to debate and support the President’s Speech, which was delivered eloquently with a lot of substance.

Mr Speaker, I will dwell on two issues, namely mining and agriculture. However, before I delve into those issues, allow me to shower praises on the President for having been so magnanimous in identifying problems, such as the price of mealie meal. That is what a great leader does. You accept shortcomings because that is the only way you can address them. I say kudos to the Republican President for having been so magnanimous to identify problems. I do recall that way back in December 2022, when we had electricity shortage, the President flew to Maamba to have the issue sorted out, and it was sorted out. To date, load shedding is a thing of the past.

Mr Speaker, the President talked of irrigation. He indicated that his desire was to see Zambian farmers start harvesting twice a year. In my own words, I can say that he supported winter farming. That is the only way that we can iron out the food or maize deficit that we have in the country. When you talk about Sinazongwe, we have many good wet lands along the shores of Lake Kariba. What has been the main problem is that the farmers farming along the lake shores have not been supported with farming inputs for a while and this should be a turning point for the people of Sinazongwe in that the New Administration, led by his Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema, will look into the problem. Sinazongwe alone, using the lake shores and other waterfronts, can have enough maize to feed the district and to take outside the district.

Mr Speaker, it is important that going forward, agriculture not be attended to once per year, as echoed by the President but we should go with the twice approach. When you look at an area like Luapula Province, there is abundant water with many wetlands. As a country, what are we doing to utilise those water bodies? There is nothing that we are doing other than just catching fish. So, we need to turn those fortunes by investing much in agriculture. It might not be maize alone but even rice. The areas in Luapula have great potential in rice farming. So, that is the area that we need to address, as a country, looking at what the President’s directive was, through his speech.

Now, coming to mining, Mr Speaker, we say kudos to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development for having brokered a deal or for Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited to have come back to Zambia to come and run its mine. What had happened was a coup d'état. The owner of Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) is Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited, ...

Mr Mabeta: Correct.

Mr Sialubalo: ... owning not less than 79 per cent shares. So, we do not need to see what had happened, going forward as a country. Wherever there is a problem, it can be amicably sorted out without going to the courts –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: There is a point of order. On whom is it against?

Mr Kampyongo: The hon. Member on the Floor.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker I have been following the hon. Member’s very interesting debate up to the time he made an insinuation, which is a breach of Standing Orders No. 65(b), when he said what happened to Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited, the investor. The investor was insincere. The hon. Member knows very well the insincerity that was exhibited but he decided to label that a coup d'état.

Mr Speaker, a coup d'état is well-known. I am surprised that the hon. Minister of Defence is there seated very quietly. He should have been very concerned.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member!

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Member in order to insinuate that what happened to that insincere investor, who has made the same pledges as he did in the past but were never fulfilled and ended up in that kind of divorce, to allege that it was a coup d'état.? In what context was it a coup d’état? Is he is order to use that term when the coups are properly described in the Defence Act?

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious guidance on this very interesting matter of this insincere investor, who is yet to prove that he is worth being trusted again.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I listened to you quite attentively. I think it is on record that, earlier, the Hon. Madam Speaker emphasised that we should avoid debating our points of order. This is what our Standing Orders say. So, my hands are tied to make any ruling whatsoever because you have debated your point of order.

May the hon. Member, continue.

Mr Sialubalo: Mr Speaker, coming to the benefits that were highlighted by the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development regarding the package that Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited intends to offload into the country, my area of concern is on two thoughts. Firstly, it is on the US$20 million that will be ploughed back into the communities where Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited is domiciled. The approach that the mines that are mining within the country should heavily plough back into the communities is very good. I advise that this does not end with Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited, but all other mines that are mining locally. Wherever they are mining from, the community should heavily and greatly benefit from the US$20 million that will be offloaded by Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited. The money should not just start and end with Vedanta Resources Holdings Limited, but all the mining firms within Zambia, irrespective of whatever minerals they are mining should benefit. Zambians should always benefit. We have been on terraces for quite some years, now, Zambians should benefit from their resources so that, at least, the country, the population were these mines are domiciled can also have their lives uplifted. Otherwise, I say kudos to the New Dawn Government that, again, there is an announcement which is shortly yet to come concerning Mopani Copper Mines.

Mr Mabeta: Correct.

Mr Sialubalo: It really needs to be unlocked so that the people of the Copperbelt can benefit. Right now, Sinazongwe is seated on about six coal mines. Therefore, we also need to start benefiting from these investors. There should be a deliberate policy for them to heavily plough back into all the areas so that, at least, some of the things like bad roads are maintained by the mines that are transporting their minerals.

Mr Speaker, I thank you, and I heavily support the President’s Speech.

Thank you, sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1738 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 14^th September, 2023.

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