DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 22nd March, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______ 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

BANK OF ZAMBIA WORKSHOP ON THE REBASING OF THE CURRENCY

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that the Bank of Zambia will hold a half-day workshop for hon. Members of Parliament on the rebasing of the kwacha on Monday, 26th March, 2012, in the auditorium, Parliament Buildings, at 0900 hours. The purpose of the workshop is to explain to the hon. Members of Parliament the concept of rebasing, its benefits and the stages that the bank plans to follow in introducing the rebased currency. 

I, therefore, urge all hon. Members to attend this important workshop. 

Thank you. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

THE ZAMBEZI RIVER SOURCE

243. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs when the Government would upgrade the facility at the source of the Zambezi River in order to turn it into an international tourist centre. 

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mrs Kawandami): Mr Speaker, as soon as the rainy season comes to an end, the Government, through the National Heritage Conservation Commission (NHCC), will commence the upgrading of the facility at the source of the Zambezi River in order to turn it into an international tourist centre. 

Mr Speaker, the Government also intends to attract more visitors by promoting other tourism products in the area such as nature walks, bird viewing and cultural activities. 

Further, Sir, the Government wishes to call upon the private sector to invest at the site through tourism-related infrastructure such as lodges and camp sites. This, in the long term, will create employment for youths in the nearby chiefdoms, thereby improving the quality of life of the rural people.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.     

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the private sector can invest in the heritage site in question. 

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mrs Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has already stated the Government’s position on the matter. The private sector is invited to invest in the development of the heritage site. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, since they will be upgrading the Zambezi River source, …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.
    
Mr Namulambe: … is there a way that the ministry …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised. 
    
Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I would like to apologise to the hon. Member for Mpongwe for disturbing him while he was making a very important point.  

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to keep quiet when three Zambian students aged 23 and 24 are reported to have been severely beaten, and one of them left in a coma in Saint Petersburg, Russia, on the night of March 18, 2012.  

Mr Speaker, lately, there have been reports of a spate of riots by pupils in some schools, such as Chizongwe and Anoya Zulu in the Eastern Province, Kawambwa in Luapula Province and Chiwala on the Copperbelt Province.  Chizongwe Secondary School has even been closed. 

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to keep quiet and drink Government water, …

Laughter    

Mr Mbewe: … instead of briefing the House and the nation regarding these important issues? Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: In an earlier ruling, I had indicated that points of order of the sort that has been raised now should only be raised in circumstances whereby what has occurred is urgent, grave and of utmost importance to the nation. Points of order, in short, should be raised very sparingly. We have a facility for urgent questions and, normally, we, through the secretariat, respond to urgent questions with the promptness they deserve. I must state candidly that I want to discourage these kinds of points of order as much as possible.

I have stated before that the unfortunate tendency of some points of order is to distract us from the Business of the House, at least, as listed on the Order Paper. Be that as it may, I will, nonetheless, invite the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to come back and make a ministerial statement on the issues which have been talked about in the point of order at a later stage.

The hon. Member of Parliament for Mpongwe may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I was trying to suggest that the source of the Zambezi River can be linked very well to the Victoria Falls in terms of tourism promotion. Is the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs considering talking to the ministry in charge of airports to improve the Mwinilunga Airstrip so that the tourists who go to see the Victoria Falls can also go and see the source of the Zambezi River?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, that is a new question. I am asking the hon. Member to write to the Clerk so that, next time, it can be on the Order Paper.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member has been credited a portfolio that he does not enjoy, ...

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … at least, currently.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I also note that he has no objection.

Laughter

DUAL CARRIAGEWAY FROM CHINGOLA TO LIVINGSTONE

244. Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication whether the Government had any plans to construct a dual carriageway from Chingola on the Copperbelt Province to Livingstone in the Southern Province.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, this question gives us a second opportunity to restate our position as this issue was comprehensively dealt with when we were looking at the possibility of constructing a dual carriageway between Chingola and Solwezi. 

Sir, the Government of the Republic of Zambia recognises the need to turn the entire route from Chingola on the Copperbelt Province to Livingstone in the Southern Province into a dual carriageway. To this effect, the Government undertook a detailed design for dualling of the Kitwe/Chingola Road in 2009. However, there have been delays in implementing this project due to budgetary constraints. Additionally, the Government will, this year, undertake a study for the dualling of the Lusaka/Kapiri Mposhi Road and the budget for this project was approved by this Parliament in 2011. These two sections are, currently, the most traffic-congested on the link in question. However, there are, currently, no funds to turn the route from Chingola to Livingstone into a dual carriageway.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I have heard that there is no money to turn the road in question into a dual carriageway. May I know if consideration will be given, soonest, to the dangerous spots along the Kafue/Mazabuka stretch. Can the road be widened, especially at the Munali Hills area.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, when discussing the same stretch earlier, we made a commitment to embark on an initiative to look at ways of widening the road at the part the hon. Member has talked about in order to remove the existing bottlenecks on the road to the Southern Province. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the Government has talked about private-public partnerships (PPPs). Why can we not split this long route and enter into some PPPs with people interested in developing Zambia so that we can save many lives from being lost on this long route?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, in sourcing for funds to work on the road in question, we are looking at all the possibilities that are before us. If the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central knows of any firm which is willing to partner with us, we would be very willing to consider its offer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, is the Government aware that there are many structures that have been developed very close to the existing road between Chingola and Kitwe?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, it is a fact that most of our road network in the country has been encroached on. We are working on how to reclaim the parts of the road network that have been encroached on.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

DISTRICT STATUS FOR RUFUNSA

245. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency would be accorded district status.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tembo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the power to declare an area a district is vested in the President of the Republic of Zambia, pursuant to the provisions of Section 2 of the Provincial and District Boundaries Act, Cap. 286 of the Laws of Zambia. There is no criterion specified in the law for declaring an area a district as this task purely depends on the President’s discretion.

I thank you, Mr President.

Laughter

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: I am not too sure at whom that address is directed.

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, has that criterion been followed in creating the recently-announced districts? 

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Professor Luo): Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member of Parliament listened to our earlier answer, we said that there was no criterion that was set. However, I would like to also give additional information to the hon. Member of Parliament that for the areas that have been declared districts, interested parties had to submit some arguments on why they should be declared districts. Therefore, if the hon. Member of Parliament has any arguments on why he thinks Rufunsa Constituency should be a district, he is free to submit them to our office and we will transmit them to His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

MUKUKU BRIDGE

246. Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans of gazetting the Mukuku Bridge on the Serenje/Samfya Road as a national heritage site; and

(b)    whether the bridge had any international recognition for being the longest in Africa and, if so, what its length was.

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Tuta Bridge (Mukuku Bridge) meets the criteria to be declared as a national monument since it is the longest in Zambia. The bridge embodies a distinguishing characteristic …
    
Mr Mwaliteta crossed the Floor.

Hon. Members: Order!

Interruptions

Mrs Kawandami: … of being an engineering masterpiece whose design took into consideration the hydrological dynamics of one of Zambia’s largest wetlands. It is also a good example of Zambia’s construction industry milestones and an excellent example of the human determination needed in order to defy nature.

The ministry is actively looking into the submission by the NHCC to have the bridge approved as one of the heritage sites in Zambia. This will be done in the near future. The bridge has no international recognition or significance as it is not the longest in Africa. The longest bridge in Africa is the Third Mainland Bridge in Lagos, Nigeria, which is 11.8 km long while the Tuta Bridge is only 3 km long.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, why has it taken so long to have that bridge gazetted as a national monument? Besides, the bridge we are talking about was commissioned way back in 1985 and, according to available information, the bridge was said to be the longest in Africa and third longest in the world at that particular time.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, it is not the fault of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, which is very committed to the preservation of national monuments, but that of the previous Government that the bridge has not been gazetted as a national monument. 

Laughter

Mrs Kabanshi: The previous Government sat on this issue. That is why, to date, the Tuta Bridge has not been declared a national monument. Nonetheless, I would like to promise Hon. Chilangwa that we are going to declare this bridge a national monument in the near future.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that if this particular bridge is declared a national monument, according to the law, people will not be able to drive on it and the engineering designs cannot be changed even if there is a need to do so?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, that is a new question and I think we will deal with it some other time.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister enlighten the House and nation on the criteria for declaring a particular site a national monument.

Hon. PF Members: That is a new question.

Mrs Kabanshi: No, it is not a new question.

Laughter 

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, the criteria followed in declaring a bridge a national monument are that, first of all, the design of the bridge has to be presented. Information such as the name of the contractor, the duration it took to build the bridge, the material that was used and the source of funding would have to be submitted to the Government.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Minister is giving a response. So, wait for the answer and, then, ask follow-up questions.

Mrs Kabanshi: Based on the information submitted, a recommendation is made to the hon. Minister. If the hon. Minister is of the opinion that the declaration of any heritage is in the national interest, then, that is done. The hon. Minister declares any heritage site that meets the criteria as stipulated in the National Heritage Conservation Commission Act, Chapter I73 of the Laws of Zambia, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Kabanshi: … as recommended or based on advice of the commission. For a heritage site to be declared a national monument, it should have national significance.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to make a follow up on the question which was raised by the hon. Member for Monze Central. The hon. Minister has assured this House that the Government is going to declare this bridge a national monument. Is she aware that once this is done, no repairs can be undertaken on that bridge which people use? If that is the case, does the hon. Minister still stand by her promise to declare the bridge a national monument?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, I said that we will consider doing that and not that we are going to do it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

CONSTRUCTION OF RING AND TOWNSHIP ROADS IN LUSAKA

247. Mr Muteteka (Chisamba) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing what progress the Government had made on the construction of ring and township roads as part of the Lusaka City Master Plan.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that detailed designs for the ring roads have been submitted to the Government for review. All the people whose properties are affected by the project have accepted to be paid off and, to this effect, have signed agreements with the council. The Government has since released K30 billion to the Lusaka City Council (LCC) to pay off all the people who are affected by the project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Deputy Minister for that response. The Lusaka City Master Plan for the construction of ring and township roads was developed as a result of the concerns of motorists and stakeholders. This is the more reason that donors indicated that they were willing to participate in funding this project as early as last year. Are they still willing or they have they pulled out? If so, is this why this project has been delayed?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, this is the time and moment when Zambia is very conducive to donor funding because the Government has promised to stamp out corruption and the abuse of office.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: My ministry is one of the ministries that is enjoying donor support. 

The hon. Member of Parliament may also wish to know that structural changes require a lot of work, thought and expert advice. We are taking time to implement this project because we want to ensure that we do not fall into the same trap that our colleagues were in where shoddy works were the order of the day. The people kept complaining about the quality of infrastructure which was being developed under the previous regime.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I am aware that a feasibility study has already been made. Will this project be completely donor funded or the Government will also contribute some funds thereto?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I am aware that the hon. Member of Parliament who has asked this question was part of the debate of the 2012 Budget. I am sure that he should be in a position to appreciate the fact that the PF Government has allocated quite a good chunk of money to the development of infrastructure such as the one we are talking about.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, when will the people who will be affected by the implementation of the project be paid their money?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, people cannot be paid before the works start. I said earlier that this Government is not going to fall into the trap of ever being cited as having abused power. The families that will be affected by the project will only be paid their money when its implementation begins.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, this is an extremely important project. Motorists, especially in Lusaka and other towns along the line of rail, would appreciate more detailed information from the hon. Minister. What is the special distribution of the ring roads in particular, especially in Lusaka?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I would really appreciate it if the hon. Member for Nalikwanda would put that question in writing so that it can be responded to comprehensively. It should not be asked as a supplementary question. I am willing to come back to this august House to give the full details regarding the question by the hon. Member for Nalikwanda when I am officially requested to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VUBWI HIGH SCHOOL

248. Dr Kazonga (Vubwi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to convert Vubwi Day High School in Vubwi Parliamentary Constituency into a boarding school;

(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

(c)    when science laboratories would be constructed at the school to enhance learning and teaching standards.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to convert Vubwi Day High School into a boarding school. The ministry will consider the construction of laboratories at the school in the 2013 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that pupils are improvising in terms of boarding facilities? This is not good for the learning and teaching environment, particularly for the girl child.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament ought to know that we share his anxieties. Vubwi Day High School has only 1 x 3 classroom blocks. The other classroom blocks being used are sheds which belong to the Tobacco Board of Zambia (TBZ). These sheds were abandoned by the TBZ, hence the ministry’s decision to start using them as classroom blocks although they are different from the standard classroom blocks. The ministry is also aware that what is required is the construction of a new day and boarding school. The school must be supported because it is already a centre for both Grade 9 and 12 examinations. As a ministry, we undertake to put, in the next infrastructure plan, the building of boarding facilities at Vubwi Day High School, especially, now, considering that Vubwi is a district.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, when does the ministry intend to produce the 2012 Annual Infrastructure Development Work Plan?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, if the question was on the 2012 Annual Infrastructure Development Work Plan for Vubwi, I would be tempted to answer it. However, it is a completely different question altogether. All the same, the ministry will finalise the 2012 Annual Infrastructure Development Work Plan next week. It should be available to hon. Members of this august House as quickly as it is finalised so that each one of them will know the limitations that we are facing and what will be worked on.

I thank you, Sir. 

CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

249.     Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    what the impact of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) had been on the socio-economic development of constituencies from inception to date; and

(b)    when the CDF for 2012 would be released to all the constituencies.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I urge the House to pay attention as I give a comprehensive answer which is of benefit to all the 150 constituencies. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry has not measured the impact of the CDF on the socio-economic development of constituencies from inception to date. However, there are two major studies that were conducted by Caritas Zambia and the Economic Association of Zambia (EAZ) on the impact of the CDF which are in the public domain. The findings of these studies indicated the following:

(i)    many constituencies have been unable to account for the CDF resulting in the loss of public funds in some cases. Furthermore, studies show that there is a greater need for the communities and the districts to harmonise project proposals and projects in line with national plans. This will help to maximise the impact of resource utilisation;

(i)    each constituency should prioritise the projects in a coherent strategy which is linked to national goals and has the timeframe of five or more years if they have to have a long-term impact;

(ii)    the current CDF guidelines of 2006 are too weak to enforce its provisions, as the legal mandate of the institutions administering the CDF lack the necessary legal backing;

(iii)    there is no effective co-ordinating mechanism at local level to monitor and streamline the multiple sources of funding flowing to the grassroots; and

(v)    the audit reports have revealed massive corruption in the utilisation and management of the CDF which is as a result of lack of reporting and poor oversight. Sadly too, despite the reports of corruption, culprits have not been punished. 

It is clear that without a proper legislative framework, avenues for redress and strong systems for accountability, decentralisation schemes, including the CDF, are more likely to bring corruption to the local level than achieve greater gains in development.

The ministry may consider commissioning a study to assess the impact of the CDF on the socio-economic development of constituencies from inception to date from the Central Government perspective when it mobilises funds for the consultancy, as there is no provision to undertake such a programme of work in the 2012 National Budget. 

Mr Speaker, the CDF for 2012, whose allocation is K1 billion per constituency, and translates to K150 billion, has been scheduled for disbursement to all the 150 constituencies in June, 2012.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, in view of the report from Caritas Zambia, is the PF Government considering abolishing the CDF?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I am amazed that the hon. Member could ask such a  question …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: … because when we debated the 2012 Budget, there was a cry by my colleagues on the right to raise the CDF to K5 billion and we managed to raise it to K1 billion. However, if he wishes the PF Government to consider the abolition of the CDF, that could be up for debate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when the Government will undertake the audit which was ordered by the President of the Republic of Zambia on the usage of the 2011 CDF.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the audit is, currently, underway and we have, in fact, received some reports on some of the constituencies that have been audited. At an appropriate date, the results of the audit will be made available to hon. Members of Parliament. We wish to say that the findings of Caritas Zambia and EAZ are extremely serious. Hon. Members of Parliament must take them seriously.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, has the PF Government and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, in particular, issued new guidelines for the CDF?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, the thinking of the PF is that guidelines are usually loose. This is the reason culprits who abuse the CDF go unpunished. We are coming up with legislation called the CDF Act. The preparatory paper for the Act is currently in circulation and will be presented to Cabinet. I look forward to hon. Members of Parliament coming to support it when it comes to the House so that the culprits can be punished. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I like the vigour that the hon. Deputy Minister …

Mr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the guidance you have given to this House with regard to raising points of order, but this point of order is very urgent. Are the hon. Ministers of Defence and Home Affairs in order to mobilise the Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force, Zambia National Service and Mobile Unit and deploy them to the Western Province to threaten people who are consulting each other domestically? 

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

I will request the hon. Member, given the gravity of the matter raised, to file in, as soon as possible, an urgent question so that we transmit it to the appropriate hon. Ministers.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that I was impressed with the vigour that has been exhibited by the hon. Minister from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Ntundu: Sir, now that the hon. Minister has informed this House that the CDF will be released in June, which is a good thing, what is causing the delay in approving the CDF committees since this ministry seems to be eager to release the CDF? Who will look at the projects if there is a delay in the approval of the CDF committees?

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, what was said is that the money is expected to be released in June this year. There is a difference between saying it will be released in June and that it is expected to be released in June.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: Sir, there has been no delay in approving the CDF committees. The process of approving the CDF committees involves inviting the councils and the hon. Members of Parliament to submit the suggested members to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. Once processed, they are approved.

Mr Speaker, let me take advantage of this question to inform the House that the reason we have had to send back the lists of some of the committees suggested is that their membership consists of people who hold party positions, such as constituency and ward chairmen.

Sir, during this tenure of office, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing will not accept that. This is one of the reasons we have had the kind of problems that are highlighted in the Caritas and the EAZ reports.

So, I would like to inform the hon. Members that when we advise them to resubmit names of the CDF committee members, they should include members of the community, opinion leaders and people who will support the developmental activities. The CDF is not for party organisation. It is for the development of the constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, obviously, the results of the two reports paint a gloomy picture regarding the utilisation of the CDF. I would like to know whether it is true that the lack of proper utilisation of the CDF can be linked to the lack of capacity in our district councils.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, my visit to the different councils of the country highlighted the fact that we do not just have an issue with capacity, but also the abuse which was rampart under the MMD Government because nobody was punished for the wrongs they did. Once we start punishing people for abusing their offices, corruption will come to an end. This is why we are working hard to have the Act in place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the CDF for 2011 has been disbursed to all the constituencies.

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, all the CDFs that was allocated for 2011 has been disbursed. If there is a constituency that has not received the fund, it should, please, inform me because there could be just some transitional problem between banks. We have, in the past, experienced that, where a bank receives the money, but does not transmit it, especially for constituencies such as Luwingu that do not have any banking facilities.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, I just want to seek clarification from the hon. Minister who has stated that, during her tenure, party cadres will not be part of these committees. Does she not risk disagreeing, once again, with the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, who stated, clearly, on Youth Day, and rightly so, that party cadres are also citizens and must be considered for positions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to inform the House that, in my statement, I said ‘party officials’. I did not talk about party cadres. If you go to the English Dictionary, there is a clear distinction between the two definitions. I am surprised that the hon. Member stated that I risk disagreeing with the President once again. I do not know of any time when I have disagreed with the President.

However, Sir, I would like to state, clearly, in this august House that the CDF is for the development of the constituency. Therefore, we need to make sure that the people whom we put on the CDF committees are legally supposed to be on them. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s vocabulary.

Mr Ntundu: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, now that the hon. Minister has not told us the difference between profiling in June and releasing in June, can she state when exactly she will release the CDF without using the terminology of profiling in June.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I just would like the hon. Member of Parliament to also remember when our portfolios were described in this august House. I am sure she will remember that this House has a Minister of Finance and National Planning who is responsible for collecting and disbursing money. Therefore, my wishes are dependent on the actions of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I just hope the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will act in line with my wishes.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am thankful for allowing me to raise a point of order which, in my view, is in serious national interest. Before I begin, I would like to apologise to the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central Constituency for interrupting his follow-up question. 

Mr Speaker, let me declare that I am the Chairperson of Energy in the United Party for National Development (UNDP). Therefore, I am the shadow minister of that portfolio …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … and should God be graceful enough to allow us to run the affairs of the people whose interests and aspirations we have been charged with, I will be Minister of that portfolio.

Mr Speaker, in view of reports of the looming shortage of fuel, I am totally constrained to speak about one of the institutions, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), which is very key in ensuring that we have adequate fuel in this country. One of the first acts that the PF-led Government performed upon assuming office was to dissolve the ERB. This was done by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, on 30th September, 2011. I would like to quickly quote what he said in both the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia Newspapers of 1st October, 2011. In the Zambia Daily Mail of 1st October, 2011, it was stated that:

“President Sata yesterday dissolved the Board of Directors of the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) due to the corruption allegations surrounding the procurement of fuel.”

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Daily Mail of the same date reported that because of the corruption at the ERB: 

“We have been buying fuel purchased without tender.”

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President went ahead and appointed a commission of inquiry according to the Commissions of Inquiry’s Act, headed by the PF Secretary-General, Mr Wynter Kabimba, …

Mr Livune: Question!

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … and was followed up by Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 101, dated 4th October, 2011. According to the SI, the Commission of Inquiry was supposed to hand its report to His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, thirty days from the appointment of the commissioners.

Mr Speaker, it is now five months since the commissioners were appointed and, according to my calculations, more than 150 days. The timeframe within which the commission was to report is stipulated in the SI. The President’s position on the ERB, according to his pronouncements while he was in the Opposition, was to dissolve the ERB due to corruption, and he did, indeed, do so on 30th September, 2011. What guarantee is there that the Commission of Inquiry, headed by Mr Wynter Kabimba, the Chief Executive of the PF, may not mainly report what His Excellency, Mr Michael Sata, would like to hear, especially that our experience in the past is that Mr Sata has rejected a commission’s report for submissions that did not favour his thinking? I am referring to the Dr Roger Chongwe-led report on the Mongu riots of 14th January, 2011.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I need your protection because the hon. Members on your left-hand side are talking.

Mr Speaker: You are still on the Floor.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the membership of the Commission of Inquiry on the ERB, just as a reminder, consisted of individual Zambians, such as Mr Wynter Kabimba, Secretary of the PF, Mr Guy Phiri, Managing Director of Engen which is an oil marketing company (OMC), Mr Chipili Katunansa, Mr Hang’umba Hang’umba, Mr Charles Mushota, Mr Ken Mwanamwalye and Mr Misapa. 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

 Hon. Member, you are still on the Floor, but I would like to guide that it is important to get to the point of order as quickly as possible. Most of the materials you are referring to are in the public domain. I think you can take judicial notice, for instance, of the composition of the commission.

 Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am truly thankful for your wise counsel. I will stick to the issues that, in my view, are not in the public domain, such as the fact that Mr Mushota and Mr Hang’umba are related to Mr Kabimba, being his brothers in law. I am sure this information is not in the public domain.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to quickly indicate that Mr Kabimba, by his own admission on Radio Phoenix, indicated that these were, indeed, his relatives. The matter that is of great concern to me, as a Chairperson for Energy in the UPND and shadow minister of that portfolio, is that the Managing Director of Engen, an OMC is on the Commission of Inquiry. It sounds like there is a conflict of interest. I would also like to quickly bring to the attention of the House, through you, Sir, the fact that, given that we are human beings, Mr Guy Phiri, whom I know very well and has no issues with me, …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Member, I am afraid to say that a point of order should be just that. It should be specific. You may have a great deal of information, but I think it is important to get to the issue. I am sure there is a way, somehow, of summing up what this point of order is all about.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I will go straight to my point of order. I have said this before in this House that I think in normal Tonga and translate in English and that is why I seem to speak in a long and winding manner. 

My point of order, which is substantive, is that: Is the Government in order not to release the report, as per requirement of the SI which states that the report must be given within thirty days of the time the commission is constituted? Is the Government in order to keep this country in the dark instead of informing it whether, indeed, the former ERB was truly corrupt? We also want to know why the Government has not proceeded to prosecute these individuals.

 Mr Nkombo laid the papers on the Table.

Mr Speaker: The point of order seems to be very narrow, centering on why the report has not been rendered, in accordance with, firstly, the pronouncement and, secondly, the SI which the hon. Member has referred to. 

I will request that this question be put to the Leader of Government Business in the House, His Honour the Vice-President. In my opinion, the earliest opportunity to indicate why this report has not been tendered within the stipulated period is tomorrow morning. He is present this afternoon and I am sure he will be looking forward to your question. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!    
    
 Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like my dear hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to confirm to this House and to the nation that, collectively, as hon. Members of Parliament who have constituencies, we are extremely happy that the CDF will be released this year, that there is commitment on her part to continue funding the CDF and that she will also bring regulations to guide its use. 

Mr Speaker, can she confirm that she is as happy as I am. 

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Confirmation, hon. Minister.

Laughter 

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I would like to confirm that the CDF will be released to the constituencies. I further wish to confirm that I will not be bringing regulations, but an Act so that those who are used to abusing the CDF are punished. 

I, therefore, wish to take advantage of this question to remind my colleagues that this money is meant to develop our constituencies. Above all, it is meant to bring some help to the people of Zambia who are underprivileged. Therefore, we should not follow this money to the constituencies to expend it. 

I thank you, Sir.
 
Laughter

 Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, given the hon. Minister’s constant reference to the rampant abuse of the CDF in most of our councils, I would like to find out from her who most of the perpetrators of the abuse are. Is it the hon. Members of Parliament, council officials or councillors? 
    
Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, with my little knowledge of law, I would not like to be cited by somebody until the audit reports are ready. The ministry will make an analysis so that we show who the rampant abusers are. I promise to make an analysis for the sake of the House and, maybe, this will help us to take care in the way we utilise the CDF.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Local Affairs and …

Laughter

Mr Simbao: … sorry, Local Government and Housing whether she knows that her predecessors used to talk just like her. I would like her to know this because she is now talking as if they were not doing anything. 

Professor Luo: Mr Speaker, I do not know what sort of question that is. I am only responsible for my actions. The people of Zambia have been able to judge my predecessors. I leave it to the people of Zambia to judge me as well. 

I thank you, Sir.

QUALIFICATIONS FROM FOREIGN INSTITUTIONS

250. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether qualifications from the following institutions were recognised in Zambia:
    
    (a)    Warwick University in the United Kingdom; and

    (b)    Management College of Southern Africa in South Africa. 

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Professor Willombe): Mr Speaker, qualifications from both institutions are recognised in Zambia. 

I thank you, Sir. 
    
Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out the monitoring mechanism in recognising these particular institutions. 

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, sadly, there is no monitoring mechanism worth talking about. Maybe, I could use this opportunity to ask this august House to support us when we present the Higher Education Authority Bill this year. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 
    
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

BUILDING OF NEW MARKETS IN KABWE

251. Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing whether the Government had any plans to build new markets in Kabwe. 

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the construction of modern markets requires high capital investments, and due to the limited budgetary provision in the 2012 Annual Budget, the Government does not have immediate plans to construct new markets in Kabwe in 2012. 

However, the Government is still soliciting for funds from co-operating partners to assist in the construction of modern markets in the provincial centres. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

MILENGE DISTRICT ELECTRIFICATION

252. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development: 

(a)    when Milenge District would be electrified;

    (b)    what type of electricity the district would be provided with; and

    (c)    when the Government would undertake feasibility studies to establish the power generating capacity of Mumbotuta Falls in Milenge District. 

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr C. Zulu): Mr Speaker, the initial plan was to electrify Milenge District by exploiting the hydro-power potential available at Mumbotuta Falls. 

Consequently, in 2009, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) carried out a pre-feasibility study to explore the possibility of building a 3 mw mini hydro-power plant at Mumbotuta Falls on the Luapula River. The outcome of the study indicated that the site had a lot of potential that could be developed if a co-operation agreement was entered into with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) Government, considering that the Luapula River is a shared water course at this point. The Government, therefore, decided to pursue the development of a bigger power station at Mumbotuta Falls, instead of developing a mini one. The bigger power station, which could generate between 80 and 100 mw, would help to increase available power in Luapula and Northern provinces and the nation as a whole. It was with this thinking in mind that, in 2010, the Government granted permission to the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) to conduct feasibility studies at Mumbotuta Falls, among others, on the Luapula River. The commencement of these studies awaits the signing of the necessary Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the Government of Zambia and the CEC as well as between Zambia and the DRC. 

Sir, Milenge District will be supplied with hydro-power electricity once the potential at Mumbotuta Falls is exploited.

Sir, the Government of the Republic of Zambia granted authority to the CEC to carry out the feasibility study on 21st July, 2010. The DRC’s electricity company, SNEL, also expressed interest in participating in the project together with the CEC. The DRC Government, through a letter of support, dated 22nd September, 2010, issued to the CEC, confirmed the mutual and shared political, social and economic interest of the Zambian and Congolese Governments to co-operate in the development of common interconnected energy projects, such as the one at Mumbotuta Falls. Currently, the MoUs between the Zambian Government and the CEC and the one between Zambia and the DRC have been prepared and legal advice obtained from the Attorney-General of Zambia. The two MoUs are currently with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, awaiting final execution. The feasibility studies by the CEC are expected to start as soon as the two MoUs are signed by the parties concerned.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Dora, which party is that man from?

Ms Siliya: Independent.

Mr Mbulakulima: Independent? Oh!

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, …

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: … my question is very specific. The background that the hon. Deputy Minister has belaboured is known by the people of Milenge. My question, especially in part (a), is very specific. We are aware of the efforts made by other people up to this stage. The question is: When will the people of Milenge have electricity? Can the hon. Deputy Minister be specific.

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, the answer to that question is that, as soon as the CEC finishes the feasibility studies, we will start putting up a power generation plant in the area. Therefore, we cannot jump any stage. We have to do things step-by-step. At least, the political will is there.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the CEC does not have its own power generation centre. It is a distributor to the mines. We are happy that, at least, the documents are in the custody of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. However, why can they not speed up the process of signing the so that the company can have its own hydro-power station and lessen the burden of ZESCO of supplying power to the company?

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, thank you for that question, although it is new. Of course, we will ask the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to quicken the process.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, is this going to take a public-private partnership (PPP) model or it is …

Interruptions 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the hon. Minister is not paying attention because the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication is talking to him.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, put the question and I will deal with the rest of the business.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Once the CEC is through with the first part of the project, what model will be used to develop this power station that will churn out 80 mw of power at Mumbotuta Falls in Milenge District? Further, when is it projected to come on stream?

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, we can only make a projection when the feasibility studies are over.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, from the answer by the hon. Minister, and given the fact that we are talking about sustainable development for districts, such as Milenge and others, do you not think it is time that the Government started investing seriously in renewable sources of energy, such as solar and wind energy, as opposed to hydro energy, which is too capital-intensive?

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Independent Member for that question. 

Laughter

Mr C. Zulu: It looks like he has brilliant ideas and we welcome them. Our office is open. If he needs to discuss with us, we are ready. Our doors are open. He should just contact us and we will be there for him. However, for Milenge District, we have started something.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, my question is in line with the electrification of Milenge as a district. Hon. Minister, has your ministry got any tangible plans, in the immediate future, to electrify Milenge sooner rather than later? The question is: ‘When?’.

Mr Mbulakulima: Very good!

Laughter

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, feasibility studies will be done as soon as the MoUs are signed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, may I find out what precautionary measures the Government has taken in giving out such concessions as it intends to do on the Luapula River, bearing in mind that some companies have been given concessions to develop hydro-electricity power in Luapula Province, particularly on the Kalungwishi River. However, for over five years, nothing tangible has come out and these people are holding the country to ransom. Can the hon. Minister confirm.

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, that is a new question and we will give him an answer if he comes to my office. You can come to my office, my brother.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to get the correct position on Milenge. The hon. Minister has told us that there has been no MoU signed, and that this is why they could not undertake the feasibility studies, but he keeps on promising to have the project started. What is the correct position?

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, the correct position is that, first of all, the REA went to undertake a feasibility study in Milenge. What came out of that study was that we do not need a mini hydro-power plant but, rather, a bigger one, which will cater not only for Luapula, but also the Northern Province. Meanwhile, the Government negotiated with the CEC to take up the project. The CEC will do its own feasibility study. As soon as it is through with that study, the CEC will implement the project.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, I am so envious of the solar energy project to be implemented in Milenge. Is the Government considering doing the same for Chipata that hardly has electricity?

Professor Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for granting me this point of order. I apologise to my colleague for disturbing his flow of thought. 

Sir, you have ruled, on several occasions, on the importance of the proceedings of the House and the need for our colleagues in the Executive to be thoroughly prepared as they come to this House. However, there has been a preponderance …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order, order! 

Bear his diction.

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, there has been a preponderance of referring to every supplementary question as a new question. This is trivialising the Business of the House. Hon. Members of the Executive must come anticipating the length and breadth of the questions that we raise on the Floor of the House. They should come thoroughly prepared, anticipating the follow-up questions. Is the Executive in order to keep saying that all follow-up questions are new questions?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, the questions that we are dealing with are obviously notified through the Order Paper. I think, as much as possible, efforts should be made to ensure that sufficient information is gathered around the questions. I have been noticing that, in fact, in fairness to the Executive, some of the hon. Members of the Executive have given very elaborate answers. I think that is the way it is supposed to be. I have also indicated that some questions will obviously be of a technical nature, and that hon. Members of the Executive may not be expected to have off-the-cuff answers to such questions. Nonetheless, that does not take away the responsibility of the Executive, for instance, to come back to the specific issues with, for example, a ministerial statement. Hon. Members of the Executive can volunteer to do that, and I think we should not encourage a situation in which questions are merely parried off on the basis that answers are not readily available.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I think that we need to remind ourselves that we are representatives of the people. This is a representative democracy and these proceedings, as I always state, go beyond the precincts of this Floor. Our conduct and our business is, in fact, assessed beyond the Floor and I think, as much as possible, we should reflect the seriousness of the task that has been assigned to us by the people of Zambia. I hope that this counsel will be heeded. Please, if you feel you need to get back to the House with a more comprehensive answer, there is no harm in so indicating. I think that is the most honourable way to proceed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was saying that after listening to the debate on Milenge, I started thinking of the need for us in Chipata to start using renewable energies so that we can avoid load shedding. Can the hon. Minister … 

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, realising the importance of this House and the purpose or reason we are here, with respect to the Executive, which is so courageous and powerful, I rise on a very serious point of order. On 14th March, 2012, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry candidly promised this honourable House that:

“Mr Speaker, I will provide all the hon. Members of Parliament with a list of loans that have been given to the people of their constituencies tomorrow, 15th March, 2012.”

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, today is 22nd March, 2012, eight days after 14th March, 2012. Is the hon. Minister in order to keep us waiting for so long without making this information available to us?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I was engaged in consultation in order to avoid deferring business. There has been very close liaison between the relevant hon. Minister and the secretariat. I am informed and assured that this information, which is being requisitioned, will certainly be made available before the House rises.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: However, I would like to commend the hon. Member for following up this particular issue. This is as it should be. 

The hon. Member for Chipata Central may continue.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister assist Chipata to avoid the load shedding being experienced by supporting it with other sources of energy just like Milenge will be supported with a renewable source, such as solar?

The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Simuusu): Mr Speaker, the ministry is considering Milenge for a renewable source, such as solar. The implementation of this initiative has already begun. In the case of Chipata, the same initiative will be implemented at a later time. 

Let me also take this opportunity to say that in Luapula Province, on Wednesday, 14th March, 2012, last week, the Government, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, witnessed the signing of an MoU between the African Finance Bank (AFB) and the co-operating partners which will include the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). This was for the purpose of developing hydo-electric power projects. A total of about US$1 billion will be used for hydro-electric power projects in Luapula Province.

I thank you, Sir.

_____________{mospagebreak}

MOTIONS

APPROVAL OF GOVERNMENT MINISTRY AND DEPARTMENTS

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that in terms of Article 44(2)(e) of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, this House do approve the abolition and the establishment of the Government Ministry and Departments established by the President as appended hereto.

PART A

ABOLITION OF GOVERNMENT MINISTRY AND DEPARTMENTS GENDER AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT DIVISION

PART B

ESTABLISHMENT OF NEW GOVERNMENT MINISTRY

1.    MINISTRY OF GENDER AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT

Portfolio Functions:

Child policy
Gender
Street Children
    
Statutory Bodies/Institutions:

Nil

Statutory Functions:

    Affiliation and maintenance of children                Cap. 64
    Legitimacy                            Cap. 52

Mr Speaker, this is what the Opposition has been wanting us to do for a long time. I trust that they have not changed their minds.

I beg to move, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I rise to advise the Government to organise itself properly as new ministries are being created. As it does this, it should not forget to clearly outline the role of hon. Deputy Ministers. The movement of ministries such as the Ministry of Lands, Energy and Water Development and others, has not been done properly. For example, the hon. Deputy Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that I support and agree to the proposal that has been made by His Honour the Vice-President.

 Mr Speaker, I think it is important for the Government to announce the positions in new ministries from the Permanent Secretary level upwards. I know the frequency is getting too much, maybe, for one’s comprehension, His Honour the Vice-President, but the nation must know who is where. At the moment, we are not sure of which Permanent Secretaries has been moved to which ministry because they are being moved haphazardly. The Government should announce all the changes that are made to the nation. Likewise, the transfer of hon. Deputy Ministers must be announced properly to the nation. The hon. Deputy Minister of Lands, Energy and Water Development has been moving together with his hon. Minister to the Ministry of Mines and Natural Resources, but he is still stuck in his seat because he is not sure whether he must follow his hon. Minister with the component of energy and water development or remain with the lands component. I think even Parliament is confused. Therefore, can this be clarified. It is becoming a little difficult for us to understand some of these issues. We have friends in the Government and if we asked them in which ministry they are serving, they would say that they are not sure.

Laughter
 
Mr Muntanga: Yesterday, there was no ministry for gender but, today, there is one. Can His Honour the Vice-President ensure that this information is given appropriately. 

Mr Speaker, it is very good that the Ministry of Gender has been established. However, the President listened to us and not to you because you believed that creating a Ministry of Gender would be lowering the status of gender issues. The President has, after all, listened to the Opposition because it was right. Some of our advice is very good and you better continue to listen. 

Mr Speaker, although it has not been properly announced, I can see that the hon. Minister of Gender already has a Deputy. We have just seen someone take the place behind the hon. Minister.  Please, help us with who sits where before too many changes are made so that we can catch up with you. 

There should not be a very strong belief in Donchi Kubeba. This is a very good song by the writer who reminds you, in Government, to be careful, but you have misunderstood the song. It reminds those in the Government not to ignore the people and to deliver the promises. Therefore, stop completely believing in this song because it will mislead you. You think that when it says, “Donchi Kubeba”, it means that you must not tell us correct things. We need proper information on the promotions of Permanent Secretaries and upwards so that we approach these issues properly. 

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support the Motion and thank you.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate this Motion. I am one of the people who passionately debated and advocated for the creation of the Ministry of Gender. I am glad that it has been granted a full ministerial status. I am very expectant that next year’s National Budget shall be more gender sensitive and responsive. The mainstreaming of gender is a good strategy for development intentions for both women and men in all sectors. 

Mr Speaker, I will not mince my words. With the ministry in place, gender perspectives shall truly be reflected in all national policies and programmes. I hope this will help Zambia gain or improve the ranking which had been lost. We had dropped to 106 out of 134 countries in the 2010 Global Gender Gap Report. 

Mr Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Gender on her appointment. She has a lot of work to do. As you know, naturally, gender is a key indicator of national development. We have been the pioneers of gender empowerment in the southern region. It was on the Floor of this House that we pleaded with the colleagues on your right to take time to make more consultations, but here we are, again, at these unending changing of ministries. Had they listened, we would have done this once and for all, but these people do not listen.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, much as I understand and appreciate that every leader comes with his own management style, we are failing to understand the management style of the Patriotic Front (PF)-led Government. Can you imagine that in six months, we have had eight ministries changed, created or abolished? No sooner has a ministry been created than it has been abolished. You can take, for example, the Ministry of Lands and Energy.

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I also appreciate the fact that the President has the right to configure ministries to suit his system so that he is able to operate effectively. There is no reasonable doubt that these changes are insufficiently planned for and that they are announced at very short notice. I am sure that if the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning were here, he would have agreed with me that the administrative costs have gone up by 1.3 per cent amidst the pronouncements of cost reductions in the running of the Government by the PF.

Mr Speaker, these realignments cost money. They need extra money to cover extra staff costs to support the new ministries.

Mr Speaker, even the high level …

Ms Kalima: On a point to order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, I thank you and apologise to my dear friend Hon. Lubezhi for the disturbance. 

Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order which borders on national interest and life. Before I continue, I hope the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour is able to see me.

Hon. Member: The way you are looking?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I do not think that is material. It is the voice that is material.

Laughter

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, allow me to quote an article on page four of yesterday’s edition of The Post Newspaper, dated 21st March, 2012 with the headline “Four Prisoners die of suspected Food poisoning.” It reads:

“Four inmates from the Lusaka Central Prison (Chimbokaila) have died from a suspected food poisoning incident that occurred at the State correctional facility around March, 5 this year.” 

“But the Zambia Prisons Service says that if there are any deaths that occurred at Chimbokaila within the stipulated period, they could have been caused by other issues other than food poisoning.

“The University Teaching Hospital (UTH) source disclosed to The Post last weekend that over ten inmates from Chimbokaila were taken to the hospital on the morning of March 5, 2012, and that some of them were in an unconscious state and showing similar symptoms. 

“The sources said some of the inmates had been discharged from the UTH Ward E 11 over the past few days, but that some of the inmates had died.

“A perusal of one of the inmates’ medical file at the UTH by The Post yesterday found that he went in as an out-patient on the morning of March 5,2012 after he was referred from Lusaka Central Prison. The medical file indicates that the inmate, who cannot be identified, fainted in prison due to excessive heat, according to prison authorities.

“The file further highlighted that the patient was found with traces of organophosphate (from a pesticide or nerve agent) as a result of suspected poison the patient took from prison.

“The sources said the four inmates died whilst they were admitted to the UTH and that a few inmates still remain admitted at the country’s highest referral health institution.”

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, regardless of how prisoners are looked at by the Government, there is life after prison. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to sit comfortably in his chair since March 5, 2012 and not tell the nation what is happening in these prisons and, in particular, what happened to the inmates at Chimbokaila? I seek your indulgence as I lay the paper on the Table.

Ms Kalima laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

This is yet another question of a very urgent nature. I would, therefore, like to invite the hon. Member for Kasenengwa to file in an appropriate question so that we forward it to the relevant Minister.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, as I was saying, there have been many recreations of ministries. To me, the level of inconsistency in this Government is worrying us. This inconsistency translates into productivity losses both resource and time wise. As I said, the realignment of ministries involves money. I would advise the colleagues on your right to put these resources and time to good use, for fulfilling their ninety days pronouncements, for instance.

Sir, to amplify my point on the inconsistency of this Government, I had the privilege of attending a sensitisation meeting on 8th March, 2012, in the Auditorium on the International Women’s Day. This Government and the technocrats do not co-ordinate, collaborate or consult each other. Therefore, we would like to urge them to do that.

Mr Speaker, in that meeting, a question was raised for the Acting Permanent Secretary, who is a technocrat in the then Gender Division. We wanted to have a feel of how gender should be treated. She gave us an honest answer, which I appreciate, that having a division was far better than a ministry. However, hardly twenty-four hours from that time, this division, was upgraded or downgraded to a ministry.

Sir, this Government is on record as having their technocrats issue circulars on one hand while, on the other hand, the Executive do the exact opposite of the dictum in the circulars. These are the inconsistencies that I am saying are worrying us.

Mr Speaker, in the education curriculum of this country, we have subjects such as Social Studies and Civics. 

Hon. UPND Members: Yes.

Hon. Members: Ekoichili!

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Does this Government consider how the children will remember and retain the names of the ministries which it is changing every day?

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Ms Lubezhi: You should be considerate of our own children.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Ms Lubezhi: I even wonder how the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) Report will be this year. It will be very interesting to see it. I do not know how many witnesses it will have.

Interruptions 

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, another worrying factor is that the operational terms for some of these ministries which have been realigned, are not qualified. I can cite the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, where the services of mother and child …

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Whatever, yes.

Sir, what I know is that the health services for mothers and children involve things such as immunisation, prevention of mother-to-child transmission of the human immuno deficiency virus (HIV), antenatal and delivery services that are normally provided at clinics that are under the Ministry of Health. However, one wonders if these services will also be provided under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Mr Speaker, we would like the Government to, please, help us to justify or qualify these operational terms. I can even see that, under this ministry, which we are debating, there is a Child Policy. I do not know if the ministry will formulate a Child Policy. 

Hon. Opposition Members: The PF Government!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, another worrying factor is the realigning of ministries to suit the competencies of individuals. Honestly, if these changes are based on administrative performance, then, change is inevitable. However, these changes that are based on personalities are a worrying factor.

Sir, may I also remind this august House that I was inspired by the Inaugural Speech of the Republican President when he said:

“My vision and commitment to you, today, is to ensure that all our efforts are directed to creating opportunity for Zambians to participate in the economy, provide for their families with pride and security and develop livelihoods and careers, utilise their talents and fulfill their aspirations.” 

Mr Speaker, the President further stated that:

“Our country has huge problems which have been compounded by acts of bad governance and fiscal irresponsibility in recent years.” 

Sir, is this Government telling us that the unending realignment of ministries is an act of good governance? I will leave that question for the Zambian people to answer. 

Mr Speaker, as I stated earlier, these realignments involve figures. They cost money. Is this Government telling us that this continuous realignment of ministries is a good act of fiscal discipline? I will leave that to the Zambian people to answer.

Sir, my timely and friendly advice to our colleagues on your right is that instead of using an expensive system of realigning ministries, they should try options of creating more divisions and Cabinet committees across the existing ministries. I believe that they can still achieve their objectives. 

Mr Speaker, let me remind them that one of the management theories I know says that leadership plus consistency plus commitment equals effectiveness and efficiency, and this is what I do not see in this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, may I also state that I am grateful to offer my free consultancy services in the event that this Government …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Ms Lubezhi: … needs lessons on good governance. 

Mr Speaker, with that friendly advice in mind, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The Speaker gets concerned when business is solicited on the Floor.

Laughter 

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Sir, I get worried when the Leader of Government Business in the House introduces a Motion by saying that the Opposition asked for it and we have given it to them. To me, it is a clear indication that there is no political will on their side. 

Hon. Government Members: Hmm! Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Member for Mafinga is debating and contributing to the debate on the Motion. 

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, this is cause for worry. The Leader of Government Business in the House is exhibiting his lack of interest in national issues such as issues that concern women. I wonder if, indeed, His Honour the Vice-President is representing us well as women. 

Interruptions

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the issue of gender must not be trivialised. The issues of gender, though dealing with both genders, are more important for women because it is the women who are marginalised. It is the women who require attention from the Government more than from any other source because it is the Government that has the responsibility of sharing national resources. This is why we require political will from the highest office. I hope that what His Honour the Vice-President has exhibited here is not a reflection the President’s thoughts on issues of gender. 

Mr Speaker, gender mainstreaming is important for the economic development of this country. 

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order and I am sorry for interrupting my sister who is on the Floor, debating peacefully. Is the hon. Member for Mafinga in order to continue criticising others when, in her own words, she promised the whole nation that she was going to undress and we are still waiting for her to do that? 

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! 

There is no serious ruling that will be rendered by the Speaker because there is no serious issue that has been raised. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, there goes the trivialisation of issues that concern women. Gender mainstreaming is important for economic development. We have a situation in this country where the majority of the gender in decision-making positions are male and, because they are male, they look down on issues relating to women. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to remind those who have the opportunity to serve to remember where they come from. Many of them come from homes that are and were run by women. Most of the people in decision-making positions, men especially, were educated by mothers with very little education, who had to wake up everyday in the morning to go and sell cabbage or rape. My point is: Let us not trivialise issues that concern women. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the very able hon. Minister who has been appointed to head the Ministry of Gender and Child Development. Congratulations, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: This is a very big agenda. The Ministry of Gender and Child Development is not a small ministry. It is a ministry that can change the lives of not only women, but children as well. This is a ministry that can help the economic development of this country. Do not feel that, maybe, you have been relegated. You have not because this is a very important ministry. If this ministry is to function properly, there is a need for a lot of resource allocation. It is a pity that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is not here. There is a need for more money to be allocated. There is a need for structures to be created and for us to review the Gender Policy. There is a need for us together, even as Parliament, to ensure that we have legislation that is gender sensitive.

Mr Speaker, I note that one of the portfolios for this ministry is the Child Policy and child development. This is very important also because, as a country, we are lagging behind in the development of the child. The Child Policy is appropriately placed under the Ministry of Gender and Child Development. 

Mr Speaker, I note that the issue of street children is going to be one of the functions of the hon. Minister. There is a need for us to pay attention to the children who live on the streets. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government did its part. I know that on that side of Government, there is a tendency of saying, “You did not do it.” We did our best. It is time for you to do your part. Let us not waste time by saying that the MMD Government did not do it, and yet the hours are ticking away and the Zambians are counting. You have four-and-a-half years to go to run a PF Government. The children are on the streets. When the MMD was in Government, the PF, then, said that there would be no children on the streets. We wake up every day only to find that the children are still on the streets. The numbers are growing. There is no clear direction on what the PF Government is going to do to remove the children from the streets. 

Mr Speaker, in fact, even the programmes that were started by the MMD Government have been lost in the confusion of changing ministries from one to the other. As a result, the children are suffering. What is the policy? What are you going to do? How are you going to remove those children from the streets so that you rehabilitate and reintegrate them? We want them to go to school. As the MMD, we started a programme. You should perfect it or do it better if you can. The children need to have access to education and health facilities. The children on the street must be able to identify their parents. We all know that 75 per cent of the children on the street have homes. 

Hon. Minister, this is a very big responsibility that you have to undertake. The children do not belong to the streets. In addition to this, the non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that claim that they are dealing with issues of children must be investigated because many of them pretend that they are working to benefit the children when we know that they are doing it for themselves.

Mr Speaker, the issue of child maintenance is the last point I would like to talk about. Many a time, men will have children, of course, with women,…

Laughter

Ms Namugala: … but they will abandon them and go and have other children elsewhere. It is the duty of the hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development to ensure that these men are followed up and made to maintain their children. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, this is an issue that should not be trivialised. We need to hold our men to account for the many children that they produce without looking after them. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Namugala: It cannot be the responsibility of the mother alone to look after the children. We need to ensure that legislation is put in place to penalise men who abandon their children.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I know that this is a very emotive subject but, please, let us maintain silence. 

The hon. Member may proceed. 

Ms Namugala: In conclusion, I would like to say ….

Lieutenant-General: Awe, mayo, konkanyenipo.    

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I am being prompted by Hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha to speak more about children. He is my ba pongoshi so I cannot say much. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the issue of children requires our utmost attention. Many of our children, with the capability of going to higher education, are not able to access it because the structure of the Government does not support them. 

We hope that the hon. Minister in-charge of this ministry will work hand-in-hand with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education under the Public Welfare Assistance Scheme to ensure that only vulnerable children access bursaries. 

Mr Speaker, we have seen a situation where children from well-to-do families, including those of some hon. Ministers, access a Government bursary …

Interjections

Ms Namugala: … at the expense of poor children. This must change. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!    

Ms Namugala: The PF Government promised to be a pro-poor Government. 
    
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: We want to see this Government in action. We want to see it representing the poor people who voted for it. This is my appeal to the PF Government. We are looking up to it to change the lives of the poor people in Zambia. 
    
Mr Speaker, it is important that our women are empowered with monetary resources. The women on the street, selling tomatoes, heads of cabbage and rape, were promised that their lives would change by the PF Government. After so many months of the PF Government, these women are still on the streets, selling tomatoes, and looking even more impoverished than they were before. What is the plan and policy direction regarding these women? Your Honour the Vice-President, what are you going to do for those women who sell tomatoes and those who wake up at 0400 hours to go and buy heads of cabbage for sale? 

Interruptions

Ms Namugala: These are the people that you promised paradise, and they are waiting for it. 

Mr Speaker, with these remarks, I wish to support the Motion.

I thank you Sir.
    
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate. I would like to join the other hon. Members of Parliament who congratulated Hon. Inonge Wina on her recent appointment as hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development. Personally, I am convinced that she is well-positioned to serve in that ministry, given her rich background in issues of gender. 

Mr Speaker, the Gender and Child Development Ministry should not be confused with what others may refer to as a ministry for women because this is not what it is. The Gender and Child Development Ministry is as important to men as it is to women. 
    
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: It cuts across all sectors. Most importantly, the commitment that has been shown will, hopefully, help us to further accelerate the attainment of Millennium Development Goal (MGD) Number 3, which seeks to promote gender equality and women empowerment. 

Mr Speaker, it is important that the hon. Minister ensures that issues of gender are mainstreamed in all ministries. She must ensure that this ministry is the focal point. She must ensure that all the Government ministries and departments, the private sector and the civil society take these issues seriously. This will be reflected in the policies and legislation that I believe will be put in place as a way of mainstreaming gender issues.   
    
Mr Speaker, it is true that as regards gender, it is our womenfolk who are mostly disadvantaged. It is important that the programmes and policies that will be put in place are those that are gender responsive and ensure that there is strengthening of institutional capacities for gender mainstreaming at all levels and in all ministries so that, at the end of the day, we should be able to check how much progress we are making regarding MDG 3. 

Mr Speaker, on the issue of women empowerment, it is true that, at the moment, almost all sectors are gender blind. One example is the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). I am not sure whether the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock can give us the number of female farmers who have benefited from the FISP. I can see that the hon. Minister is not paying attention. 

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Order!
    
Continue contributing, and do not conduct the House. 

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: That is the prerogative of the Speaker. 

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.  
    
Mr Speaker, I believe that this ministry will help us to look at a number of aspects, not only the social sector, which are key to both women and men but also, most importantly, to see how the women will fair in terms of economic activities. We have issues of land and the economy at large. Therefore, we need gender desegregated data so that we can see how men and women are faring in this regard. 

Mr Speaker, this ministry, with the right hon. Minister, Hon. Wina, will help us, as a country, to ensure that we build capacities, not only in ministries, but across society both at local and national level. It will also play its meaningful role in being the focal point. 

When you analyse the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), you will note that most of the plans are gender blind and the element of gender mainstreaming is, indeed, missing. Crosscutting as it may be, it is important that it is mainstreamed in all sectors contained in the SNDP. I would like to encourage the hon. Minister to review the SNDP, if possible, so that all the ministries and sectors can, once again, see how they can be gender mainstreamed. 

As regards child development, Mr Speaker, I would like to agree with my sister, Hon. Namugala, on the challenge that we have of street children. However, I believe that with the right policies and programmes put in place under the ministry, we should be able to see progress in ensuring that we not only forcibly start removing children from the streets as it might have happened in the past, but also look at how the family system should support the issue of reintegrating some of the children into families.

This brings me, Mr Speaker, to the issue of poverty. In an environment where there are high levels of poverty, it is also possible that there is a relationship, in a way, between poverty and the high number of street children, especially in an urban setting. I think that it is important to consider economic empowerment of families. Most of the street kids are from families, but they run away from their homes because of poverty. Issues to do with gender are inter-linked and should not be considered in isolation. 
 
Sir, I wish to give the hon. Minister my support and thank His Honour the Vice-President for moving this important Motion. I would also like to echo what Hon. Namugala said that it must not be seen as if the Government is responding to the issues that were raised by the Opposition. It is something that should be able to come from your heart as the PF. This is a very important programme and you must not be seen to be doing anybody a favour. It is very important for the PF Government to listen and we stand ready to support it.

Some of us have done a lot of work in this sector and are willing, as Hon. Lubezhi said, to be consultants in issues of gender.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to debate this very important Motion on the Floor of this House.

Sir, before I make my submissions, I would like to correct the impression that has been created in the media that yesterday, when His Honour the Vice-President was presenting his ministerial statement on the renovations of State House, I, Jack Mwiimbu, prominent hon. Member of the United Party for National Development (UPND), asked His Honour the Vice-President whether the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning had declared interest in the contract awarded to Apollo Company. I was not in the House at the time. I was chairing your Committee that was considering the Penal Code Amendment and the Bill relating to the Anti-Corruption Commission. If the record on the Floor of this House is reflecting that I did raise that issue, I would request that it be corrected because that is misinformation.

Mr Speaker, I would like to advise the Members of the PF Government to stop the propensity of abrogating the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia. As we are debating this Motion, the Ministry of Gender and Child Development is in existence. There is an hon. Minister superintending over this ministry and officers serving under this particular ministry. The Government is in breach of the Constitution. It should have not allowed the ministry to function until after approval of this House was given. Article 44(e) sayss:

 “… subject to approval by this House.”

This ministry has been in existence and operational for more than three weeks now, but has not been operating illegally. This propensity should be stopped and should not be allowed.

Mark my words, next time the Government brings a Motion like this, Mr Speaker, we will be compelled to oppose it. We are men and women who swore before you, Sir, to defend the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia. That is the oath we took.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Correct!

Mr Mwiimbu: It is irresponsible for any hon. Member on your right side to trivialise this issue. They know that a violation of the Constitution is a serious matter. They are lucky that this Motion is very appealing to us. This Motion is very emotive on the part of our mothers. If it were not so, Mr Speaker, we would have opposed it. We have been advising …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Do not debate whilst seated. Let the hon. Member complete his debate. I will give you an opportunity to speak.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I speak without fear of any contradiction on this matter. If they want to test our veracity to oppose this matter, then let them test us. 

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: You test us. We are advising you …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, could you, please, address the Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to repeat that those who are independent of wisdom are not supposed to be in this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: This House is for those who are wise. This House is for men and women who discuss issues prudently. If you are imprudent, then this House is not where you should be.

Mr Speaker, with that very timely advice, I have no proxy to support the Motion. I will willingly support the Motion because this is what we wanted. Obviously, we wanted to have the creation of this ministry by following the established laws of this country. That is what we wanted.

I am advising the Executive that, next time it wants to create a department or ministry, it should not implement it until approval is given by this House. If it were parliamentary, I would have said, we will not rubberstamp it, …

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … but since it is unparliamentary, I will not say it. 

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: You have not said it!

Mr Mwiimbu: No, I have not.

Mr Speaker, I have noted that this ministry is going to superintend over the unfortunate children whom we are calling street children. I would like to request the hon. Minister and His Honour the Vice-President to reconsider use of this terminology “street children.” This terminology is demeaning. It is inhumane to call any child a street child. We should find appropriate terms to refer to these unfortunate children.

With these few words and advice to those who are ‘unadvisable’, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for affording the opportunity to comment on this submission from His Honour the Vice-President. 

Sir, it is extremely disheartening to note that His Honour the Vice-President can table this very important Motion without any detail in terms of a statement of exposition regarding the importance of this ministry and the justification for establishing it in the broader context of our development as a nation. This is unacceptable and I hope that he will not repeat it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: This shows that he does not take how we consider the operations of the Government seriously.

Mr Speaker, that having been said, this is a very important ministry because it deals squarely with the creation of the type of society that Zambia ought to be. It lies squarely on issues concerning the establishment of a humane and decent society in which matters of justice and equity are paid serious attention. This is due to the fact that it caters for the voiceless in our society, the children, street children and, to a large extent, the wider gender issues in our development. 

Mr Speaker, since this is a ministry that deals with the marginalised in our society, we should have heard a profound statement that will articulate these issues of values; issues that lie at the core of the ethics of our society; how we consider the vulnerable, marginalised and downtrodden, and how to bring them in the mainstream of our development as a nation. His Honour the Vice-President has failed to do that and this is unacceptable.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the fact that this ministry touches on, for example, street children, in itself, is important enough to demand an articulation of how it will address this pertinent problem in our nation. 

Sir, those who care to look at research in our country know that the first study on street children in Zambia was led by me, personally, as a researcher, in 1991. Not only did we study street children in 1991, but we also made a follow-up in 1996 and another one in 2005.

Mr Speaker, in 1991, we found many children on the streets in our country. Most of them were homeless, and slept in the drainages of our urban centres. Then, a number of them were in their teens. You can imagine that this was about twenty years ago. What has become of those children now?

Interruptions

Professor Lungwangwa: They have given birth to children. What kind of generation do we have in our midst?

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: These are the issues that ought to occupy our minds seriously. What kind of programmes should we put in place to address this very important problem in our nation? 

Sir, this is a matter to which we should pay very serious attention because it borders on the matter of the type of society that we are developing. We need to develop a decent society because that is what democracy ought to do. It has to give opportunities to those who do not have them and accord various services to those who cannot access them. That is democracy and, clearly, His Honour the Vice-President should have put all these issues into context in order to justify the creation of this ministry.

Interruptions

Professor Lungwangwa: The Executive should not make us wallow in trivia because we are not here for that. We are here to address very serious national issues that are close to our hearts for the development of our country and the future of our nation. Even in terms of one of the fundamental principles of democracy, namely equity, this is a ministry that ought to address, for example, issues of how we treat equals equally. That is, horizontal equity. How we treat unequals unequally is vertical equity. How do we treat individuals in the current generation, in which there are inequalities, so that their offspring in the next generation have equal access with any other children is intergenerational equity. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, that is what His Honour the Vice-President should have put his thoughts to and, if he could not do that, at least, the Ministry of Gender and Child Development could have written a document, even a one-page statement, to indicate the importance of this ministry.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we are very confident that the big heart of the new hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development will enable her to address these very important issues. As we strive to build a decent, humane, just and fair society, and try to bring the vulnerable and marginalised in the mainstream of our development, all the issues should be addressed and we are confident that she will apply herself to these matters of development in our nation.

Mr Speaker, with these few comments, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: My sense of the debate is that there is a general consensus in support of this Motion and I think, in terms of management of time, we need to begin winding down this debate. However, I will allow few interventions from the left. There are some people who have already caught my eye and I will not shy away from them.

Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I am most grateful for having caught your eye. As nearly everybody knows, I am a man of very few words. In supporting the creation of this ministry, I would like to express a few thoughts on the statutory functions stated on the Order Paper, especially those to do with the maintenance of children, although there was no statement on that.

Mr Speaker, there are many pieces of legislation that deal with children, such as the Juveniles Act, which is enforced by the Ministry of Home Affairs. There was also a policy in the Ministry of Youth and Sport which will have to be implemented by the Ministry of Gender and Child Development. There are issues to do with children in the Ministry of Health and, predominantly, in the Ministry of Education, Science Vocation Training and Early Education as well as in the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, with regard to the family aspect, and as this relates to our culture in the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Therefore, there are scattered pieces of legislation that need to be amalgamated so that there is prominence and clarity to children’s affairs. 

Mr Speaker, of late, we have been reading about child defilement, parents burning their children and many such reports in the newspapers. I think that this is an indication that the fabric of our cultural values is truly being torn. Therefore, the ministry must start sensitising people at the levels of the family, school and community. In fact, the issue of abuse of the most vulnerable; our children, the treasure of our future, has arisen, by and large, because of the so-called busy parents who do not pay much attention to the upbringing of their children. I would like to see from this ministry a clear programme of sensitisation and inter-ministerial collaboration so that we can start in earnest what, perhaps, had been neglected in the past. The former Government did its part in terms of street children, who are adults now. Many of them have skills, but what was done was just the tip of the iceberg.

Mr Speaker, in supporting this Motion, I wish to say that we should not relegate the Ministry of Gender and Child Development to the status of a minor ministry. This is our treasure. To reiterate what my Whip said, the intention or direction of the Government should have been shared with hon. Members. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Gender and Child Development (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I seem to have been taken aback. However, I do take note of the main sentiments expressed in this House with regard to the creation of this ministry. I thank the hon. Members who have contributed, particularly those who have supported the Motion.

Mr Speaker, I have taken note of the main issues that were raised in the debate and I assure hon. Members that I will do my very best to make sure that gender mainstreaming in the various ministries, the private sector as well as in the civil society organisations is undertaken. I promise to come back to the House to give a comprehensive picture of what this ministry is all about.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank, wholeheartedly, all speakers who contributed to the Motion. I take note of the overwhelming support for the President’s decision to turn the Gender Division into a ministry. This will mean that it will get more visibility and have more clout inside Cabinet. Nonetheless, the former division will continue with what it has been doing, but with added strength. All the legalistic arguments that are being advanced are just an attempt to play to the gallery. 

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I gave the hon. Members space to express their beliefs and opinions. I would have expected a “thank you” to be the appropriate response rather than asking what His Honour the Vice-President thinks he is up to.

With these few remarks, I urge the House to support the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

___________

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

THE AVIATION (Amendment) BILL, 2012

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.    

Title agreed to.

___________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Aviation (Amendment) Bill, 2012

Third Reading, on Friday, 23rd March, 2012.

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________ 

The House adjourned at 1746 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 23rd March, 2012.