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Debates- Wednesday, 28th March, 2012
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 28th March, 2012
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
__________________
MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS
BAROTSE NATIONAL COUNCIL
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to address the nation, through this august House, on the resolutions of the 2012 Barotse National Council (BNC) held at Limulunga from 26th to 27th March, 2012, that were announced in Mongu on matters that have a profound bearing on the integrity and harmony of our peaceful country. Those resolutions have severe consequences and ramifications.
Sir, as a country made up of several ethnic groups, we are fused and have established strong bonds of fraternity and a unique fellowship built on a foundation of “One Zambia One Nation” ever since the attainment of independence. This has sustained us, making our country an oasis of peace, stability and harmony. In diversity, we have held together without a preoccupation and obsession with colour, creed or language. People who visit our country are touched and impressed to see a place where people have endless smiles and extend a hand of friendship to foreigners. This is a country where there is no xenophobia or ingrained ill feelings towards those who are not our clan, colour or religious persuasion, and I can personally testify to that.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we have various challenges as a country. Principally, a large number of our people live in poverty and this is morally unacceptable and undesirable. Our agenda and thrust, in unison, should be to address this particular challenge. Our policy as the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is full devolution as an approach to decentralisation driven by poverty reduction and elimination, and is anchored on the issue of getting development to the grassroots across the country as the most effective way of tackling the poverty that we are in. This was stressed by His Excellency the President in his official opening speech to this august House.
Mr Speaker, in the 2013 Budget, the Government will start the process of sharing revenue with the local authorities, and it will be significant revenue-sharing, in order to enhance development in all parts of the country; in all the ten provinces. In addition, the Government has many programmes and projects, some of which will take off in the next two to three months. These will have a big impact, especially, on employment creation. The route we will take, for instance, to construct roads in all our towns in both urban and rural areas, will be labour-intensive while maintaining quality, sustainability and durability.
Sir, let me now address the grave issue of the proposed secession of Western Province from Zambia. These resolutions have been made by a group of people who arrogated to themselves the exclusive preserve to speak for all the people of Western Province. The resolutions from the districts were a stage-managed and orchestrated affair, with no proof of adequate consultation. We insist, as a Government, that the resolutions by the BNC to break away from the rest of Zambia would have to be considered by all the people of Zambia, both from Western Province and elsewhere, through a process that involves elaborate and credible consultation.
The resolutions announced in Mongu, yesterday, are irresponsible and unacceptable and the Government will not abdicate its responsibility ...
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: ... as a custodian of the interests of all our people who live in the territorial space called Zambia. Until now, the Government security and law-enforcement wings have maintained a low profile and visibility. Level-headedness and circumspection will continue to be our guideline. However, as a Government, we will rise to the challenge of protecting the lives of people and property. It is our inescapable duty, obligation and responsibility to do so. I want to counsel our people to desist from pointing fingers at each other. We must all guard against making explosive statements that can only compound the situation.
Sir, various edifices and structures, ranging from schools, hospitals and related facilities to offices have been provided in Western Province, courtesy of Zambian taxpayers of all persuasions, tribes, races and creeds and the Government will protect all this property.
Sir, Western Province is inhabited by a number of ethnic groupings that may be as numerous as the Lozis, but are averse to breaking away from Zambia. Most likely, more Lozis live in the rest of Zambia than those who live in Western Province and have families and property outside the province. These have fused with fellow Zambians through marriages and other forms of social interaction. Generally, all of us, Zambians, wherever we may live in our large country, have an ultimate attachment to each other and our country. Any separation entails anguish and rapture in our sentimental connections resulting in a big emotional upheaval.
My advice to the country, Mr Speaker, is that we stay calm as we take note of the pronouncements in Mongu and continue to dialogue with the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE). Zambia’s harmony will continue to be premised on democratic principles and values and benchmarks of tolerance, accommodation and fellowship.
Finally, Sir, it is my hope that the House will unite in safeguarding our peace, unity and the integrity of our country through our purposeful togetherness and responsible conduct.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by His Honour the Vice-President.
Mr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that the Barotseland Agreement is the one that unites the two territories and, in its absence, there is no relationship?
Interruptions
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is the legal situation taken to extremes and twisted. In practice, Western Province has been part of Zambia and has been governed as part of Zambia since well before 1964. I have friends who came out here in the colonial times to be colonial officers and they moved into Western Province and the other provinces without any distinction as to where they were. In practice, the province or the so-called Barotseland has been part of Zambia for a very long time; over 100 years, in fact.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by His Honour the Vice-President in which he has indicated that Western Province was part of Zambia prior to 1964, I would like to find out what the genesis of the 1964 Barotseland Agreement was.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think the intimate connection that exists in some people’s minds between the Barotseland Agreement, on the one hand, and the possibilities of secession, on the other, is misconceived. The Barotseland Agreement was drawn up to give comfort to the BRE that it would not be disadvantaged by being a part of Zambia, having gone from being a protectorate within a protectorate. It has nothing to do with these secession resolutions that have been made in Mongu this week.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, issues like the resolutions that have been passed by the BNC can cause conflicts in the nation. Has the Government taken steps to investigate the real matters that have exhumed the issue of the Barotseland Agreement?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, yes, we are taking steps to examine both the immediate and underlying causes of this set of resolutions.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, in his ministerial statement, His Honour the Vice- President referred to decentralisation by devolution as one of the ways in which the PF Government plans to reduce poverty. I would like to know what else the Government plans to do for the people of Zambia, in general, and Western Province, in particular, to reduce the level of poverty.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are getting too much off-track for me to give a convincing answer. I can talk on that subject for an hour, but it is not relevant to the immediate issue that this statement was about.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Monde (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, in 1991, when Dr Kaunda realised that he had not done well where the people of Western Province were concerned, he campaigned on the issue of restoring the Barotseland Agreement. However, he did not win that election. In 2011, last year, the PF mentioned that it would restore the Barotse Agreement. Could His Honour the Vice-President explain to the House what the PF was going to restore and what it meant when it said that it would restore the Barotseland Agreement.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Mukapange icalo chenu.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Let us have order.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, senior members of the PF, as I recall, were never so careless as to say they would restore the Barotseland Agreement.
Interruptions
The Vice-President: I remember several campaign speeches that I and His Excellency the President gave, for example, where we discussed the concept of decentralisation and more significant involvement of traditional leaders and royal establishments in the management of the country and we used, as our analogy, the principle of indirect rule. In Eastern Province, if a person was to translate what I am talking about into Ngoni, he would say indirect rule because the concept is known. In Western Province, the BRE’s powers as guaranteed by the Barotseland Agreement were used as an example. So, the literal promise was never made. What was promised is decentralisation and that promise will be kept.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, in my layman’s understanding, Barotseland came together with Northern Rhodesia to form one unitary State called Zambia. Along the way, that agreement was abrogated by the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government. Therefore, that agreement fell apart. What would be the implication of restoring it? Would it mean that we will unite the two nations into one unitary State of Zambia or that there will be secession?
The Vice-President: As I said earlier, my layman understanding, also, is that the Barotseland Agreement was put in place to give comfort and re-assurance to the Lozi people and the BRE, in particular, that they would not be disadvantaged by the fusion of their territory with the rest of Zambia. So, I do not think that it is the Barotseland Agreement that makes Western Province part of Zambia. Western Province is the Western Province of Zambia.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, every community has the right of association. If they want to associate, they make that decision. The Lozis have decided not to associate with the rest of Zambia. Suppose they stand their ground, what will the Government do about it?
Laughter
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I take issue with the statement that the Lozis have decided not to associate with the rest of Zambia. Some individuals, in Western Province, politicians, in fact, of the Movement for the Restoration of Barotseland (MOREBA), in particular, who signed those resolutions, have engineered that these resolutions be produced. I made it very clear in the statement that there is no evidence whatsoever of adequate consultation, of some sort of referendum or anything having taken place even among the Lozi tribe, let alone Western Province and Zambia as a whole. As regards the question of freedom of association, tell that to the people of Western Sahara, Biafra, South Sudan and Eritrea. This is very dangerous territory, Mr Simbao. It really is. I think we should steer clear of it and be unified as one nation in this House.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President be very categorical on whether the PF Government will restore the Barotseland Agreement.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the report that contains, as one of its recommendations, the restoration of the Barotseland Agreement is currently under consideration by the Cabinet and there is no categorical answer until the Cabinet has decided.
Hon. Government Member: Boma!
The Vice-President: The issue of secession is not restoration or failure to restore the Barotseland Agreement. Secession is a much more serious business; one that should not be connected because, logically, it is not connected to the Barotseland Agreement.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has said that the Barotseland Agreement was basically meant to provide comfort to the BRE. The Republican President said he would find it difficult to restore the agreement. What is so difficult about the agreement?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the subject is the passage of various unconstitutional resolutions by a group of secessionists in Western Province. That is what we are making a statement about. The Barotseland Agreement and what our President thinks about it, personally, and what remarks he might have made off-the-cuff and other things, I cannot expand on. It is under the active consideration of this Government. The House will be advised in due course.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether the Government is considering engaging people’s representatives from Western Province, especially the hon. Members of Parliament who were in this House before, and those who were in the Cabinet and are in this House today, to find out what role they played, then and now, to guide our people in Western Province. This is because they cannot be here comfortably debating with us whilst people there are making those decisions.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, let me be very clear that the questioner wants to know whether we are considering engaging hon. Members of Parliament and others. We will engage with anyone who is serious and has good intentions. We have an open-door policy. The mere fact that this council was allowed to take place peacefully and without any interruptions for two days is evidence of our attitude towards freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of association.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: There were other Governments in the not-so-distant past that could have stopped that council very quickly. In fact, it would never have been able to convene.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: So, we are prepared to talk to anybody and engage them, but I implore hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from Western Province, who see this as an opportunity to embarrass the Government, to desist from doing so. It is a very serious matter and we should take a constructive and humble attitude towards it.
Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the Vice-President says that he only has a layman’s understanding of the issues. May I know from his layman’s understanding what happens if a marriage certificate is torn by one of the parties. Can he tell me the meaning of that.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let us maintain calm. I know that this is a very emotive and sensitive issue, but we must remain calm. We should deliberate with utmost calm.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, from a layman’s perspective, the tearing of a marriage certificate merely results in the necessity to obtain a duplicate.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Boma!
The Vice-President: Sir, to actually obtain a divorce requires decree nisi, decree absolute and all those fancy things that lawyers know about. If I was making a public statement about marriage and divorce, I would answer at greater length, but I am not prepared to do so now.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken.
Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, in 1964, Western Province had the highest number of educated people in Zambia, if my statistics are correct.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Interruptions
Mr Mutelo: Today, it is the poorest. Could this be the reason they arrived at such resolutions?
Interruptions
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we have, on this side of the House, …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
The Vice-President: … considerable sympathy with the sufferings of the people in Western Province.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: We are not blind to that. We also have considerable sympathy with the other nine provinces that also suffer from poverty and all kinds of unpleasant things.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: If one wanted to know why Western Province is coming out as the poorest, on the basis of the statistics, I suggest that the questioner, or anybody else who is curious to know, asks the previous Government, …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: … which spent twenty years struggling, or pretended to be struggling, with various issues, such as animal diseases that were a curse to Western Province.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, the current grouping that has come up with the decision to secede consists of seven districts. Now, Barotseland included Southern Province, Western Province, parts of Lusaka Province, the Copperbelt and North-Western Province …
Hon. Government Members: Awe!
Interruptions
Mr Mulusa: Hon. Members, I am actually right. May I know from …
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Members, we will not progress smoothly and efficiently if we constantly interject. This is a serious issue and we must demonstrate the seriousness of the matter at hand by maintaining discipline. Discipline should be manifested by hon. Members of the House because this business is not limited to the precincts of the National Assembly. So, we need to reflect the discipline of the House and let each hon. Member debate and give His Honour the Vice-President an opportunity to respond. There is really no point in proceeding with the debate if we cannot conduct ourselves in a disciplined manner.
Mr Namulambe: Send Kambwili out.
Mr Speaker: May the hon. Member for Solwezi Central continue.
Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, if the Government will engage this grouping, would it also include us, who are legally and technically part of Barotseland, so that we do not start another secession discussion after agreeing with only seven districts?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if there is going to be a dialogue that is serious, one can include much, but one cannot, from this batch of resolutions passed yesterday, be very clear what is meant by Barotseland.
Sir, the questioner said that seven districts were represented, but I think one has dissociated itself and it is dubious how any of them is actually representative of the people in that district. It is open to debate. The hon. Member of Parliament, when he says, “include us’, presumably means the hon. Members of Parliament. My response is that hon. Members of Parliament always have an open door in this Government and with this State House. They have never had anything else under the PF dispensation.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to add my voice to this very important debate.
Mr Speaker, one of the reasons cited for calls for secession by our people in Western Province is the abrogation of the Barotseland Agreement of 1964 by successive Governments, which means that, to avoid secession, the agreement must be restored. Why, then, are you not considering this path to avoid the present situation?
Mr Speaker: Order!
Before His Honour the Vice-President responds, please, bear in mind that, earlier, he said that the Government has received a report, which it is studying and there is a recommendation to that effect. The Cabinet will deliberate and a position will be taken. You are free to ask questions of all sorts but, certainly, not repetitions.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that clarification because I am absorbed from having to give it myself.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, arising from that very unifying statement that His Honour the Vice-President has made to this House, what is the position of the three major opposition political parties, the United Party for National Development (UPND), the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) as well as United Liberal Party (ULP)? In today’s papers, the leaders of these parties have been reported as declining to comment on this issue. Are the three helping the Government in looking at this issue from a positive perspective?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it is the PF that is in the hot seat because it is the Government. It is up to us to do a good job or make mistakes. If the other parties want to watch the fun and games, that is their prerogative. We have not consulted and I think it would, actually, be, at some point in the not-so-distant future, a good idea if all the main parties, at least, the ones in Western Province, which I think are about four, were to say that they are on the same page and standing on the same ground. We are playing with fire here and we do not want anything to happen to our country that comes and cannot be got rid of in decades.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, some time back, I said in this House that, ‘Once beaten, twice shy’ and there was laughter.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, we do not see fire when it starts. We only see fire sticks. We have a Government in place and it received a report of the Barotseland Commission of Inquiry about four weeks ago, but nothing has been done. The difference makes what it is.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: I hope you will now proceed to the question.
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, a question is like a house because it has cornerstones. My question is: Since the Cabinet has not yet come up with an answer to the recommendations of the Barotseland Commission of Inquiry, and now that there is a resolution from Western Province, what immediate action has the Government put in place for the current situation?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the immediate action includes monitoring and analysing but, in terms of more proactive or more active things than those that may be coming to contain the situation, I do not think the House could reasonably expect me to pre-announce them. I am not saying they are coming or not. It is a prerogative of the Government to allow various arms of the Government to do their job.
I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}
Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, given that, in Western Province, there is no consensus on the secession that is being claimed, and given that some ethnic groupings, such as the Nkoyas in Kaoma District, have seriously and consistently dissociated themselves from that, will the Government, perhaps, even as it studies the report, consider holding a referendum for the people in the province to indicate whether they would like to secede?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if we were so minded, we would have a referendum for the whole of Zambia because that is a constitutional issue. If you break a country into half, you are effectively changing the constitution at a very fundamental level. I take the point about various ethnic groups in the province having different views, but I am not even sure what the majority Lozi view is. How do we know? Are we to take MOREBA as the yard stick of Lozi political thought? We do not know. That is why I made the point very forcefully in the statement that the process of consultation that had gone on behind these resolutions is not clear at all.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chishimba (Kanfinsa): Mr Speaker, would it be far-fetched to conclude that this agenda is being driven by former members of the fallen MMD Government who have failed to achieve political power through normal means …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chishimba: … and are working by remote control behind the scenes? May His Honour the Vice-President comment on that.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is feeling in the dark. We have the police force and other investigative wings that will, in due course, maybe, come to some conclusion. Otherwise, it is mere speculation.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, would His Honour the Vice-President state what immediate measures the Government is putting in place so that current and would-be investors are not scared because of this impasse?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, first of all, there is no impasse. There is only a batch of resolutions from some sort of organisation, which might have legitimacy, but not necessarily be representative. Even if they were, we would be explaining it. In fact, we are explaining it to our co-operating partners, members of the diplomatic corps and investors. I have had several phone calls about what is going on and I have re-assured the people calling that everything is well.
I thank you, Sir.
Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, in his statement, His Honour the Vice-President made reference to dialogue as a step towards the resolution of the current state of affairs in Western Province. Could he inform the nation what strategic steps have been taken by the Government along the lines of establishing effective dialogue with the people in the province.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is a six-month-old Government. The commission of inquiry that has been mentioned by several hon. Members was set up as a matter of priority by the PF Government to allow all the voices in Western Province and beyond to be heard. We wanted people to give us some database, if you like, of attitudes and political views in Western Province. I would regard this as a prime example of an initiative towards dialogue because it gives us the information to work with.
In the previous twenty years, there was never any dialogue.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, listening to the statement by His Honour the Vice-President, I picked two issues. Firstly, the agreement was merely meant to give comfort to the BRE; secondly, the decision that has been made by the BNC is irresponsible. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President how irresponsible the decision is.
Interruptions
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I was going to ask the hon. Member which question she prefers me to answer. However, since the second is more important, I will answer it.
Sir, I have two things to say in response. First of all, it is not at all clear that this process and institution or expanded Kuta, which includes the Kutas of the various districts, were representative in nature. It is not the BRE as I understand it or its expanded form that signed those resolutions. It was mostly office-holders in MOREBA. To say that the decision was irresponsible is, on paper and, perhaps, in reality, rather difficult when people are merely declaring intentions to show how serious they are. If I declare an intention to murder somebody, the police might leave me alone saying that I am a well-known crank. It is only when I actually murder somebody that they will know for sure that I am serious. However, I wish to state that to make statements that are treasonable will not take one anywhere. You cannot just come up and say, “Here is a roadmap for achieving complete separation from Zambia and we are going to implement it within thirty days”. Doing so is a serious crime, except that it is merely a declaration of intent at the moment. We will know how to handle it more decisively when the implementation gets underway.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President inform the House and the nation at large the exact territory the proponents of the Barotseland Agreement would like to secede from Zambia. Is he able to indicate the exact territory?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I regret very much that I am not able to describe the exact extent of Barotseland based on one definition or the other. It extends, as far as I am aware, outside Zambia, into at least two neighbouring countries, perhaps even three, as well as five provinces of Zambia, by the most expansive definition, I have been told. However, I am just not able to give a precise definition. We do not know what area the people who issued these resolutions are calling Barotseland.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, soon after constituting the commission of inquiry that was led by Dr Roger Chongwe, the PF is on record saying that the commission had overstepped the boundaries of its terms of reference by including issues to do with the Barotseland Agreement in the scope of its work. Today, the Barotseland Agreement has become the bedrock of the PF Government in considering the report by the commission of inquiry. Did this Government have a position on the matter before this commission of inquiry was instituted?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am afraid that we keep coming back to the same problem. The Chongwe Report is before the Cabinet for consideration. Nothing that anyone says, including His Excellency, off-the-cuff or otherwise, will have any bearing on what we will decide to do with the findings of this report until the Cabinet has considered it and the Government has an official point of view. I am afraid, therefore, that Hon. Hamudulu and others will have to wait until I or whoever will be Vice-President then stands up and announces our position on the Chongwe Report.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, if I heard clearly, His Honour the Vice-President said that Western Province is the same as the other nine provinces in Zambia. Can he tell me how many provinces signed an agreement in 1964 apart from Barotseland.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Barotseland Agreement, as far as I am aware, was unique. I do not know of any other tribe or group, including the whites who remained behind, which signed any agreement.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Laughter
Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, may I know from the His Honour the Vice-President what makes Zambia a unitary state. His hon. Minister of Defence is quoted in today’s papers saying that Zambia is a unitary state. As far as I know, there are three forms of State: mono State, unitary State and federal State. What makes Zambia a unitary State?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that the boots should be reversed. I should be the one asking how many types of states there are …
Laughter
The Vice-President: … and Hon. Mufalali should be the one answering the question because he seems to know better than me the various types of states that exist.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President confirm that the PF mishandled the Barotseland issue by assuring the people of Western Province during the campaigns, last year, that the agreement would be restored.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I believe that I have answered that question.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: I think that I have provided sufficient guidance on that issue.
Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, …
Interruptions
Mr Ng’onga: Ebene ba Barotse abo.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Dr Musokotwane: … His Excellency the President made an off-the-cuff remark, when receiving the commission of inquiry report, that he would not honour the Barotseland Agreement. Currently, in the press, there is a report coming out of Botswana that the Government there is being urged to ask for an apology because of some off-the-cuff remarks made by our President while he was in that country, one of which was that Botswana only had five shops …
Hon. MMD Members: Aah!
Dr Musokotwane: … and, therefore, did not need people in the field of accountancy.
Laughter
Dr Musokotwane: Would you agree that, for the sake of the security and honour of our country, the President must be dissuaded very strongly from making off-the-cuff remarks because they are embarrassing this country?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mbewe: Zoona!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think we are well off the track now. In general, the President’s ‘cuff’ remarks have nothing to do with this debate whatsoever.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: I must say that I am also having problems stopping some of my officers’ cuff remarks. In English, they say, “You cannot teach an old dog new tricks.”
Laughter
The Vice-President: So, maybe, Michael …
Hon. Opposition Members: Oh, oh!
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Order, order!
The Vice-President: Maybe, that is what I am also suffering from anyway.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! The VP!
Mr Muteteka (Chisamba): Mr Speaker, the matter that is on the Floor of the House has attracted a lot of political expression. Taking into account the resolutions that have just been passed by the BNC, …
Mr Kunda, sc.: Ba Kasonde eko muli uko bafweni!
Mr Muteteka: … is the Government willing to accommodate all the chiefs in Zambia if they ask for a conference to deliberate on the issue, taking into account the fact that the matter affects a number of chiefs who have not spoken about it? What will be your position, as a Government, if all the chiefs ask for a conference so that they can be allowed to deliberate on this issue in the interest of making peace?
Hon. MMD Member: Mwisa beebe, beebe!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the only undertaking I could give, at this point, is that we will cross that bridge when we get to it. I cannot answer a question like that on the Floor without consultation.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
MALARIA DEATHS IN MULOBEZI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY
The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to express my sincere gratitude to you …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Dr Kasonde: … for according me this opportunity to respond to the point of order raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi Constituency, Mr Sililo, who alleged that 126 deaths occurred in his constituency in 2012 due to the non-availability of anti-malaria drugs.
Sir, I had time to look into our own information system to establish the facts as we see them and, perhaps, to compare with the sources of information that the hon. Member has. According to our Health Information Management System (HMIS) records at Sesheke District Health Office, there were no deaths recorded at Mulobezi Rural Health Centre due to malaria in 2011. The health centre recorded 233 suspected malaria cases of which 156 were confirmed and successfully treated. However, Sesheke District, as a whole, of which Mulobezi is a part, recorded eighteen deaths due to malaria in 2011. Of these, ten were of children below five years while eight were above. However, in 2012, Mulobezi has, so far, recorded only one death due to malaria.
Sir, I wish to further inform you that Sesheke District and Mulobezi Health Centre, in particular, did not experience a stock-out of anti-malaria drugs at any time in 2011 and, so far, in 2012.
Mr Speaker, the Government’s vision is to have a malaria-free Zambia. Therefore, it has, through my ministry, put in place a robust malaria control programme that seems to be a leading example globally.
The interventions that we have put in place include:
(i) The use of long-lasting insecticide treated bed nets;
(ii) in-door residual spraying; and
(iii) ensuring that there is always an adequate supply of drugs and correct diagnosis.
In addition, presumptive treatment to prevent malaria in pregnant women is conducted. All these interventions are provided at no cost to the patient.
Sir, the House might wish to note, further, that, as a result of these interventions, deaths attributed to malaria nationwide have declined drastically over the last decade. However, the country has begun to witness a resurgence of malaria in some areas and the Government is concerned about this state of affairs. It is, therefore, intensifying efforts to address the situation.
Mr Speaker, I would like to urge hon. Members to check their information before raising questions and to desist from making statements that may cause despondency among the people. In matters of health and healthcare, we cannot afford to be too economical with the truth.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Health.
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that there are some areas that are showing some resurgence in malaria cases. I would like to know the areas and what the reason could be for this unfortunate state of affairs.
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I was referring to provinces where there have been small areas affected either by heavy rainfall or other factors. These are Kaputa in Northern Province, Eastern Province and, to small extent, Central Province.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, following the differences between the information of the area hon. Member of Parliament and the Ministry of Health, would the hon. Minister be willing to send staff from the ministry to the area so that the reports could be verified? This thing has been going on for some time and we have information to that effect.
Dr Kasonde: Sir, the staff of my ministry did go to Western Province and the information that I am giving is a result of both local collection of data and what they found when they visited. However, if the hon. Member wishes to send his own team, …
Laughter
Dr Kasonde: … we would be delighted to welcome them.
Thank you, Sir.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we appreciate the progress made in the fight against malaria. However, is the hon. Minister aware that there are equally very devastating illnesses circulating in Western Province? Last year, the hon. Minister indicated that dysentery was being wiped out in Kalabo. The reports I hear now, however, are that it has actually spread much wider than before.
Dr Kasonde: Sir, I am fully aware of the existence of other health problems across the country. I understood the questioner was addressing the issue of Mulobezi and, specifically, about malaria. In the event that the hon. Member wishes me to pursue other aspects of health and healthcare in Zambia, I would be delighted to do so on another occasion.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sililo (Mulobezi): When did they started …
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Please, bear with him.
Mr Sililo: Mr Speaker, when did the staff travelled to Mulobezi?
Laughter
Dr Kasonde: Sir, I cannot give the exact dates. It is something that was done in very recent days and, when they returned, I was able to report on some of the reports in the case of typhoid and cholera. So, I do not think that it is essential for me to give the exact dates of travel when I have the data collected and put in the HMIS. I do not think the demand is appropriate.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, malaria is one of the major killer diseases in Zambia, but most of the clinics are not supplied with enough malaria drugs. For example, in my constituency, Chiparamba Clinic was hit by a shortage of drugs and I personally went there. Would it not be prudent for the hon. Minister to accept this and work on stocking health institutions with enough drugs, rather than refusing and putting people’s lives at risk?
Dr Kasonde: Sir, I would, certainly, accept any proposals from the hon. Member and such proposals need not be limited to malaria. I, however, did not see the need to accept because she has not made any suggestions before. I have made statements, on the Floor of this House and elsewhere, about the measures that the ministry has taken to ensure the supply of drugs. Those measures, I can repeat, have covered the whole area of supply, storage and distribution. More recently, I have gone to the extent of studying the possibility of distribution mechanisms at the district level that will ensure that the questions that the hon. Member and others are asking can be answered locally. I am, therefore, a little puzzled that, in spite of all my statements, the hon. Member has not, to date, checked what has been done in this field. I shall be obliged, again, to make a statement at an appropriate time, but I think we must be careful to check before we make statements in the House.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s statement that Western Province is not reflected as having a raised number of malaria cases, can he confirm that, due to poor communication from the staff in the province, and Kalabo, in particular, he is not aware that malaria had resurfaced between January and February, 2012.
Dr Kasonde: Sir, the hon. Member is right. There was an area in Western Province that was affected. However, I was referring to other areas, having already addressed the issue of Western Province and the specific area of Mulobezi to show how other areas in the country were also affected.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Sir, I want that hon. Minister (pointing at Dr Kasonde) …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Gwembe, let us practise some modicum of civility in the manner we address colleagues in the House. I am sure there is a better and more felicitous way of addressing your colleagues, especially those on the right.
Mr Ntundu: Sir, can the hon. Minister shed some more light on the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi, who wants to know when the Ministry of Health staff travelled to Mulobezi. Why should he make a fool of an hon. Member of Parliament who has asked a question for the good of his constituency?
Mr Speaker: I think that is a very inappropriate reference. I do not think there is any person here who sets out to make a fool of another. I can make that presumption.
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, it is a matter of great concern that, when the hon. Member is trying to make a fool of others, he, accuses others of doing so to another. I think we should be quite clear that it was not my intention, and it will never be, to do anything that does not clarify the Government’s position on health and healthcare in the country. I hope I will be understood in that light and any pointing, whether with a finger or book, shall suggest the opposite.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions{mospagebreak}
Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the constituency that has been mentioned is far away and the question was if he had asked or raised a point of order yesterday ...
Mr Speaker: Is that a question you are posing?
Mr Mutelo: The question is: When was the staff sent to bring back the report to the hon. Minister as has been put to this House?
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I referred to the HMIS, a database that is updated regularly, and I have laid on the Table the particular copy of that database that has those figures for Mulobezi that I quoted. So, it is not a matter of responding to the questions of hon. Members of the House that makes us visit these places to collect the data. This is a continuous process and all the figures that are referred to are checked on a regular interval. I shall not respond to questions by sending a team, as a special case, to go and establish the number of cases over such a long period; from 2011 to 2012. There will be no merit in such a visit. If, however, the hon. Member had done what is proposed now and gone to the constituency to visit the clinic and seen the figures, this question would not have arisen.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
ENHANCING PRODUCTIVITY AND COMPETITIVENESS OF ZAMBIA’S PRODUCTS
The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sichinga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for availing me this opportunity to update the House on what I consider an important issue so that, as the hon. Members go to their constituencies, they could take this information with them. At the end, I will circulate information that they could use to do verifications in their constituencies. The Government had intended to conduct a workshop for hon. Members of Parliament but, due to the brevity of time in this sitting, it will not be possible.
Mr Speaker, the PF Government recognises the importance of trade in achieving higher levels of economic growth and development. In this regard, we have maintained a trade policy that is aimed at enhancing productivity and the competitiveness of Zambia’s products in both domestic and international markets. We have positioned the commerce and trade sectors to become export-driven, competitive and viable. The second goal is to expand the variety of export products as well as increase the volume and improve the quality of locally-produced goods and services, and to increase the country’s share in world exports.
Sir, let me assure the House that the Government remains committed to pursuing liberal policies aimed at promoting the expansion of markets at the bilateral, regional and multi-lateral levels, as well as the diversification of Zambia’s export products. The PF Government has demonstrated this through continuous engagement with partners within the region under the frameworks of the Common Markets for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) the Customs Union, which was launched on 7th June, 2009, and the Southern African Development Community (SADC), whose Free Trade Area (FTA) was launched on 17th August, 2008, as well as the sub-continental level through the SADC-East African Community (EAC)-COMESA Tripartite framework and the African Union Integration Programme. At the global level, Zambia has continued pursuing its interests in the Doha Round of Negotiations under the World Trade Organisations (WTO) as well as the Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA) with the European Union under the European Union-African Caribbean Pacific (EU-ACP) arrangement.
To grow our exports further, the Government is working at strengthening the preferential market access schemes that it has, among them, the United States of America African Growth Opportunity Act (AGOWA) and the European Union Everything but Arms (EBA) Initiative. This has been done to take full advantage of these schemes so that our exports grow further, thereby, generating additional room for the production of export goods.
Mr Speaker, in terms of the general export performance, Zambia recorded a positive trade balance during the last three years, 2009 to 2011. The total export value increased by 61 per cent from 2009 to 2010 and increased by 27 per cent from 2010 to 2011. In absolute terms, the total export value was about US$7 billion and US$9 billion in 2010 and 2011 respectively. Zambia’s major export products in the last three years have remained largely intermediate goods mainly comprising copper cathodes, which accounted for 80 per cent on average. This essentially means that non-traditional exports accounted for about 20 per cent. In 2011, Zambia exported about US$9 billion against imports of about US$7.2 billion, resulting in a positive trade balance of about US$1.41 billion. This represents an increase from the 2010 total exports of about US$7.3 billion and imports of about US$5.2 billion, resulting in a positive trade balance of about US$2.1 billion in the same year. Copper exports increased from US$6.7 billion, rising from the US$5.8 billion recorded in 2010. However, there was a decline in cobalt earnings of about US$58 million from the US$303.8 million recorded in 2010 to US$256 million in 2011 due to a combination of factors, including production and pricing. This general increase in export earnings was, to a greater extent, attributed to the upswing in the net realised average price of copper and increased demand for metals, resulting from the recovery of the world economy from the impact of the global economic and financial crisis. However, given the current situation on the global scene, this position is threatened.
Mr Speaker, dependence on one commodity, copper, limits the country’s ability to respond to global cyclic economic changes, hence, the negative impact on the economy. It is, therefore, necessary to reduce the country’s dependence on one commodity.
Sir, as part of the export diversification programme, the PF Government has taken a keen interest in promoting the growth of non-traditional exports sector (NTEs). It might interest this House to note that Zambia’s non-traditional exports have generally exhibited an upswing trend over the past five years, growing from US$566 million in 2005 to about US$1.7 billion in 2011. The NTEs increased from about US$1.3 billion in 2010 to US$1.7 billion in 2011. This represents 31 per cent growth in non-traditional exports and 19.6 per cent contribution to the total exports in 2011. The growth in the NTEs has been a result of the Government’s efforts to diversify the economy from its dependence on copper and facilitating investment in the non-traditional export sector. The main NTEs that have recorded significant growth over the years included cement, lime, wheat, barley, tobacco, gemstones, copper wire, electrical cables, cane sugar, cotton lint and cotton yarn. Increases in these were also supported by improvements in the international commodity prices, which accounted for this growth. Impressive as this growth in the NTEs is, though, the PF Government believes that it still has homework to achieve a satisfactory level of diversification and reduce dependence on copper.
Mr Speaker, in 2011, the key sub-sectors that contributed to the average 20 per cent growth in the NTEs included engineering products, with copper wire, electrical cable and electricity contributing 13.5 per cent. Others are primary agricultural products, with maize contributing 11.1 per cent, barley tobacco 5.9 per cent, cotton lint 6.9 per cent and other sectors having contributed insignificant amounts.
Mr Speaker, in terms of the direction of Zambia’s exports, the major export destination for the intermediate goods category during the period under review has been Switzerland, with well above 80 per cent, on average, followed by countries like the Republic of South Africa, China and the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Mr Speaker, let me now turn my attention to the way forward. The PF Government has observed that Zambia’s export portfolio is still highly dependent on mineral exports, making the economy highly susceptible to external shocks, such as global demand and price slumps. In this regard, the Government has taken particular interest in developing not only the urban areas but, also, the rural parts of Zambia as part of its industrialisation programme. Consequently, my ministry has embarked on creating a resource map in all the districts and provinces of our country in order to create export-oriented industries in identified potential products. It is in this spirit that we are taking a critical step in all the trade negotiations in which we are involved to make sure that any trade agreement that Zambia will be involved in helps us to reduce our dependence on unprocessed exports by increasing value addition to our products, especially those that are destined for the national, regional and international markets. Our conviction, in the PF, is that we must emphasise value addition to goods that are produced in the country. This will enable us create jobs and put more money in our people’s pockets.
Mr Speaker, the aim of the ministry is to employ specific policies and programmes that will significantly increase exports in products in which Zambia has comparative advantage. Further, the Government, through our ministry, seeks to increase exports and ensure that our people are involved in the enhanced export drive by producing the finished products, not intermediate ones, demanded in the local, regional and global markets. In order to achieve this target, my ministry is undertaking capacity building through skills training in conjunction with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education; provision of appropriate credit; export market identification; and encouraging strategic partnerships between local and foreign businesses in order to meet the production demand that exists in the country and outside. Accordingly, my ministry has adopted the policy of creating economic or production clusters based on the resource endowment in each province, district and constituency. In this regard, the ministry has already completed resource endowment mapping for all the ten provinces and their districts, and plans to support production of up to 5 products in each province, district or constituency. We now seek the assistance of the hon. Members of Parliament in verifying our resource endowment mapping when they go back to there constituencies as we intend to use responses as confirmation of the accuracy of our analysis, which will form the basis of our economic support to constituencies.
Mr Speaker, I am pleased to report that the ministry has also received confirmation of support for this programme from the following international organisations: the United Nations Industrial Development Organisation (UNIDO), World Trade Organisation (WTO), through the Enhanced International Framework (EIF) and International Trade Centre (ITC)), the World Bank, the African Development Bank and the Government of Finland. We are still seeking additional support and funding, but what has been received, so far, will suffice for us to commence this process.
Mr Speaker, accordingly, I have provided, for each hon. Member, appropriate details in respect of their provinces, districts and constituencies. You will find a document similar to this …
Mr Sichinga held the document up.
Mr Sichinga: … in your pigeon-holes when you leave this Chamber.
Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichinga: I urge you to, please, study this document carefully and provide us with feedback at the workshop for hon. Members of Parliament, which will be held when Parliament reconvenes in June, 2012.
Sir, the production from the clusters will be linked to the exports that Zambia will be making due to its comparative advantage. This includes Western Province with its mangoes, fish, rice, timber and cashew nut.
Sir, the Government is working very hard to make Zambia be among the most attractive investment destinations in the world with a stable political, socio-economic and cultural setting, and a conducive business environment, which is cardinal for business operators. Our focus is on helping to increase the volume of non-traditional exports. This further underscores the fact that we have a thriving, democratic, peaceful and politically stable environment as well as respect for the rule of law, the separation of power, an independent press and judiciary, a strong civil society and anti-corruption drive and, above all, a pro-business Government.
Mr Speaker, with the development of the rural industrialisation strategy, through the industrial clusters that I have just described, and attracting domestic as well as foreign direct investment in the key sectors of the economy, the exports are expected to grow further, leading to more direct and indirect jobs to be created, thereby, putting more money in our people’s pockets.
Hon. Opposition Member: Question!
Mr Sichinga: Our target is to create a million jobs by 2015.
Interruptions
Mr Sichinga: I now ask the hon. Members to assist us by taking copies of our resource mapping to verify the resource endowment in their respective constituencies.
Mr Speaker, I also want to mention that a brief on the exports will also be provided in the hon. Members’ pigeon-holes, which they can take with them and study.
Sir, I have also taken advantage of this statement to respond to the point of order that had been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central that the information that was promised has been delivered in pigeon-holes. I hope that this makes you a happy, hon. Member of Parliament, and that you can go back and report this to our citizens in your constituency.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement.
Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, in yesterday’s newspapers, there was an article in which the President was said to have managed to convince investors in India, the hoteliers, to be specific, the Taj Goup of Companies, which already exists in Zambia. I would like to find out whether it is the PF’s policy that the President should be soliciting for investors alone leaving his hon. Ministers and technical staff behind.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, it is important for us to understand that the Cabinet always serves under the President. He is the chief mobiliser. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the President reinforcing the work of his hon. Ministers to solicit for investment. The hon. Member for Namwala might also recall, since she has made reference to newspapers, that this hon. Minister came from India only last week, Wednesday, doing exactly the work that the President is currently doing. The President has gone to reinforce the work of the hon. Minister and I am sure that this should be impressive rather than negative.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister state what measures the Government has put in place to promote companies that will add value to various products.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpongwe is well aware, unless his mind has been distracted because of the court issues, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Laughter
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichinga: … that this Government is going round, throughout the country, engaging with the private sector to encourage them to invest. Yesterday, I was addressing the strategic plan by the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Sichinga: Yesterday, I was addressing a gathering of the ZDA on its strategic planning to include all those institutions that want to be helpful in ensuring that we add value to this. As a matter of fact, this morning, I was in Kabwe dealing with issues of the Chamber of Commerce, Trade and Industry to ensure that it contributes to the programme that we are talking about.
Mr Speaker, the Government does not engage in production. The private sector does. Therefore, it is incumbent upon the Government to encourage all those operators to do just that.
Sir, for Mpongwe, once the hon. Member has looked at the resource mapping that we have done, we are also looking to him to come back and say, “In the following areas, this is what we can do.” We hope that, through the ZDA, we can do more production and value-addition, especially in those farms in Mukumpu that are in your constituency that can provide a lot of agricultural products for value addition. So, we are continuing to encourage this investment, both local as well as international, and ensuring that value addition is enhanced.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, …
Mr Namulambe: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am a very sober and steady leader. Is the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and whatever it is called …
Hon. Government Members: Aah! Is that being sober iwe?
Mr Namulambe: … Industry in order to refer to me as a person who is confused by court cases, as if he has found me guilty, yet he is only supposed to provide a categorical answer, rather than waffling the way he has done and, thus failing to answer my question? I seek your serious ruling.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
The reference to your involvement, whatever it is, was, obviously, not in order.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister would have responded without referring to those personal circumstances.
May the hon. Member, proceed.
Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed us that he is following a trade policy that is anchored on enhancing the competitiveness of the country, regionally and internationally. May he shed light, for the benefit of the nation, on the policy re-alignment he is making to enhance the country’s comparative advantage in trade and investment regionally and internationally.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I will respond as well as I can to that question because I thought that the statement was quite clear and categorical in terms of the measures specific to the issues of both a regional and international nature. I made a statement relating to our involvement in the SADC, COMESA and intra-partite, and saying that in our negotiations, we are ensuring that the position of Zambia’s comparative advantage, in terms of the processed and finished products, is being enhanced. I thought I made that quite clear.
Sir, for the benefit of the questioner, Zambia went into the African Growth Opportunity Act (AGOA) arrangement with the United States of America (USA) several years ago. To this day, however, there have been no significant exports to the USA despite the fact that we have a quota-free arrangement with them. The fact that we have gone into an agreement does not, in any way, guarantee that you will benefit from it. It simply opens the door. What has happened in the past is that Zambia has not had the products to export to those markets and what we are doing, currently, is to develop local capacity to produce products in which we have a comparative advantage. This is what we are doing by giving to hon. Members of Parliament our resource mapping of all the provinces and districts for them to confirm that these are the products in which we can have a comparative advantage. I have urged hon. Members of Parliament to look at these documents so that, when they go to their respective constituencies, they can confirm the data. Thereafter, when they return, we will convene the workshop for hon. Members of Parliament, and our hand would have been strengthened our hand in ensuring that the investment is directed to those sectors that will enable us produce these goods for export.
Sir, that is what I thought I stated and I do not know if that is sufficient for the hon. Member of Parliament.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister referred to Western Province and collapsed industries and countries, I mean companies …
Laughter
Mr Kaingu: Yes, Western Province, of course, is a collapsed country.
Interruptions
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to help me know how to calculate the gross domestic product (GDP) for Western Province.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the process that we are embarking on is meant to enable all the constituencies, districts and provinces to contribute to the economy of the country. As we stand, currently, under the Central Statistical Office, the analysis is not demarcated on the basis of constituencies or districts. What we are doing is to use the information that has been provided to the hon. Members of Parliament as a basis upon which we are going to implement the project.
Now, the hon. Member has made reference to collapsed companies and he is right. Under his Government, these industries collapsed.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichinga: That is why we are implementing these particular programmes so that, with industrialisation, the GDP can be enhanced. Currently, I have explained that the bulk of the GDP is generated from Copper at 80 per cent with only 20 per cent coming from non-traditional exports. We intend to increase that percentage to reduce dependence on copper for the reasons I have already stated.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Musokotwane shook his head.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I see the former hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning shaking his head. If you have got better facts than I do…, the details are provided here. I would encourage you to read the documents before we start quarrelling over it. I have given the figures and this is what we should work with.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry went to great lengths to give statistics on Zambia’s performance in exports. Could he also explain what will happen to Zambia’s exports starting from 2013 when the European Union, as it has indicated, will invoke the provisions in the Economic Partnership Agreement so that our exports, including other countries that have not signed the agreement, will no longer enjoy the duty-free and quota-free exports to Europe. What will happen to our performance, especially given that the hon. Minister indicated, this week or the previous one, when we had a visiting delegation from Europe, that he will not sign that Economic Partnership Agreement?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, first of all, let me correct the statement that the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi West has indicated. I did not say that I would not sign, but that Zambia would not sign because it is chairing a group called ESA, which is engaged in negotiations with the European Union (EU). Since we are chairing that group, we said that we would only sign once we have mastered the agreement of all the other members comprising that group. Secondly, this is not a matter that is decided by the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry alone. Matters of agreements, such as those with the European Union under the African Caribbean Pacific (ACP)/EU arrangement, are not issues that can be dealt with by one ministry. Having said that, though, we are preparing ourselves and sharpening our tools to ensure that the country is able to produce and export beyond the European Union. This House might wish to know that there are economic challenges in Europe currently. Therefore, depending on just one market exposes our country to vulnerability, which is unwise. This is the policy that the former Government had pursued and we are correcting the situation.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichinga: We must start from somewhere and we are starting by looking at what the country can produce from its own resources. That is what we are doing by the exercise that is going on. We urge hon. Members of Parliament to participate. Do not just come here and criticise without participating in providing the solutions. That is what we are doing. The PF Government is engaging with you now and you should respond. Let us deal with it.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, …
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it is actually, appalling to listen to the hon. Minister debate in this manner.
Laughter
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, is he in order to talk about the MMD like that when, actually, the targets he is mentioning predate his tenure, having been achieved by the MMD?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order!
I will urge the hon. Minister to take that into account as he continues to respond.
Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, every effort towards achieving industrialisation in our country is very welcome, but our biggest challenge is the lack of …
Mr Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, before we went on break, I was appreciating the efforts of the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry and saying that, much as we might have those interventions, our biggest problem in Zambia is lack of entrepreneurial skill.
Mr Speaker, you will recall that, after we privatised over 280 companies, all the skilled Zambian managers who were running those companies simply disappeared and none of them could manage those companies that had been sold on management by-outs. My question is: What else is being done to ensure that an entrepreneurship culture is cultivated amongst our citizens? Further, what measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that the entrepreneurs we have are protected because, for all countries to develop, they started by protecting their fragile domestic industries and their own people?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is right and I thank him for his appreciation that this is an important step that we ought to take in order to re-industrialise because we have gone beyond this level of industrialisation before. I totally agree with him that it is necessary that, as we industrialise, the infant industries need to be protected up to a certain stage. Unfortunately, protectionism also has costs. So, you have to weigh the cost of protectionism against the benefits of opening up the market to competitive business.
Mr Speaker, having said that, the issue of skills that he raised, especially entrepreneurial skills, is critical because the skills are necessary for those who go into business to be well-prepared. One of the reasons the Citizen’s Economic Empowerment Commission and its fund did not work effectively is exactly what the hon. Member has raised. There was no sufficient culturing in entrepreneurial skills both from a technical and a business management point of view. One of the things I mentioned in the statement I have just made is the issue of skills training. The reasons we have gone to international organisations, such as United Nations Industrialisation Development Organisation (UNIDO), are to help us with this process of imparting skills and to identify the skills gap in our country so that, when people go into business, they can be prepared.
Mr Speaker, furthermore, when funding to the Citizen’s Economic Empowerment Fund is restarted, it will be a precondition that those who are going to access it go through a prescribed curriculum to ensure that there is a good understanding of the way they can use that resource. I totally concur with the hon. Member of Parliament. Entrepreneurial skills are key. You do not want to throw good money away like that. This is why we are taking this exercise, but hon. Members of Parliament can also play a part by helping us to identify ... and I am also hoping that, as they go back to their constituencies, they will engage with business associations, such as the chambers of commerce and industry, to identify these weaknesses. It will be necessary for them to help us identify those gaps so that, when we come to the rolling out of the programme, they can be addressed as we go along.
I thank you, Sir.
___________{mospagebreak}
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
LUNSEMFWA BRIDGE WORKS
279. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications when the works on the Lunsemfwa Bridge on the Lunsemfwa River in Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency would be completed.
The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is right. The last works that were done on this bridge in 2005 were not completed largely due to insufficient funds.
Mr Speaker, the bridge has not been budgeted for in the 2012 Road Sector Annual Work Plan. However, the ministry has now asked the Road Development Agency (RDA) to carry out a detailed assessment on it to establish the scope of the remaining works and submit a report before June, 2012. To this effect, the regional engineer in the company of staff from Chongwe District Council will be in that area this week and this is one project they will look at. Once the assessment has been done, the works on the bridge may be considered in the 2013 Annual Work Plan depending, again, on the availability of funds.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I want to find out if the Government has invited the contractor so that they can find out from him what really happened. Secondly, for a very long time, we have, in this House, appealed for people to go and check on the works and the materials available on the ground.
The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, it is very difficult for the hon. Member of Parliament, who has been in the area for a long time, to come to this House and start asking about this project because this project was started in 2005. I would have expected that, since the money was released to the Chongwe District Council, he would have been in a better position to give us the answers. Having said that, we are asking the Regional Engineer from the RDA to go there and assess the works because the last works were done in 2005. This Government only came in 2011.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister pointed out, 2005 is a long time. He also said that there would be an assessment. However, I would like to know whether this structure is still sound. Why can we not start all over?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I know that the hon. Member is an engineer. The purpose of the assessment is to check the soundness of the bridge and to make estimates on the value of expenditure. After the assessment, we will be able to determine whether it is sound enough or we have to start all over again so that we change the design or look at how best we can do the job.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, since that bridge has been in a bad state for several years, I would like to know whether there is any alternative for the people in the area.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the people of this area have had many problems and that is why we are sending the engineers urgently to assess the situation so that, if there is a need for us to carry out remedial action in the interim, we do so.
I thank you, Sir.
CROWD CONTROL
280. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) when non-lethal methods of crowd control would be introduced in the country; and
(b) when the Ntambu Police Post in Chief Ntambu’s area in Mwinilunga Parliamentary Constituency would be reopened.
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that non-lethal methods of crowd control, such as anti-riot guns, water cannons, tear-gas canisters, batons and horses, are currently used in Zambia by the Police Force.
Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that this Government takes cognisance of the inadequacy in the number of non-lethal equipment in the country. To this effect, K1 billion has been set aside in this year’s Budget to facilitate acquisition of more non-lethal equipment.
Mr Speaker, Ntambu Police Post in Chief Ntambu’s area in Mwinilunga Parliamentary Constituency will be reopened once a modern police post and houses for the police officers are constructed in the area by the year 2015.
Mr Speaker, I wish to re-affirm the Government’s commitment to improving police infrastructure in the country. To this effect, it is currently sourcing funds outside the 2012 Budget for development of infrastructure for the Zambia Police countrywide so that most of the projects are undertaken earlier than the year 2015.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that the police post will open in 2015. May I know why they continuously use Ntambu Police Post in the establishment registers every year to support the Budget when it does not exist.
Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has caught me off-guard. I need to find out from the office why this is so.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
I think that was a fair response. If one does not have the information immediately, there is no harm in consulting and coming back to the House with a fuller answer, instead of using other options that I would like to discourage.
FOREIGN EXAMINATION BOARDS
281. Dr Kazonga (Vubwi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether there were any foreign examination boards accredited to the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority within the context of the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) Qualification Framework and, if so, what their names were.
The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Professor Willombe): Mr Speaker, currently, TEVETA accredits nine foreign examination boards within the context of the TEVET Qualification Framework. The names of these foreign examination boards are:
(i) International Computer Driving Licence (ICDL);
(ii) Association of Business Executives (ABE);
(iii) Institute for the Management of Information Systems (IMIS);
(iv) Association of Accounting Technicians (AAT);
(v) City and Guilds;
(vi) Certified Commerce and Industry Personnel (CCIP);
(vii) London Centre of Marketing (LCM);
(viii) The Association of Business Managers and Administrators (ABMA); and
(ix) The Institute of Commercial Management (ICM).
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, on the basis of the answer given, what is the Government doing to ensure that members of the public and students are aware of the foreign examination boards that are accredited?
The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, all our institutions offering training in technical fields under TEVET have the duty to explain to students and potential students the accreditation of these boards to TEVET in the country.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
LWELA HIGH SCHOOL
282. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:
(a) when the Government would construct modern infrastructure at Lwela High School in Milenge District; and
(b) what the estimated cost of constructing the infrastructure was.
The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the ministry will consider the construction of modern infrastructure at Lwela High School once the current secondary schools under construction are completed. Consideration will, therefore, be made in the 2013 budget.
Sir, since a decision has not been made to start the project mentioned above, it is not possible for us to comment on the cost. It will be known once the ministry makes a decision.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, you have guided hon. Ministers to just keep quiet if they do not know the answer to a question.
Laughter
Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. Minister, are you sure there is any construction going on at Lwela at this time?
Laughter
Mr Mbulakulima: Who told you?
Laughter
Mr Mbulakulima: I get annoyed!
Laughter
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, what I have said is that the ministry will consider constructing modern infrastructure at Lwela High School once the currently on-going construction of high schools is completed. That is what I said. I did not say that there is an on-going construction project at Lwela High School. I said consideration for the project in question will be made in the 2013 Budget.
Mr Mwila: Bwekeshapo!
Mr Mabumba: I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Chizungu! Chizungu!
Mr Speaker: Order!
ELECTRIFICATION OF RUFUNSA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY
283. Mr Chipungu asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development when Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency would be connected to the national electricity grid.
Hon. Opposition Members: Boma yalala. Shame! Shame!
Ms Siliya: Absent!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, the implementation of the project is anticipated to commence in the second half of 2012. The preparation of the environmental and social impact assessment has been completed with the document having been submitted to the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) for approval. We are also seeking approval for the acquisition of the transmission line, way leave and other necessary consents. Consent fees in excess of K584 million have already been paid to ZEMA.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
ZAMBIAN KWACHA IN CIRCULATION
284. Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning how much currency, in Zambian Kwacha, had been in circulation in Zambia:
(a) as of 15th September, 2011; and
(b) as of 29th February, 2012.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
The Vice-President (Dr Scott) on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, as of 15th September, 2011, K3,377,145,637,025.00 was in circulation. That is about K3.4 trillion. As of 29th February, 2012, K2,845,855,585,096.00 was in circulation. So, less money was in circulation as of 29th February, 2012.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, may I know what would characterise the national economy, in terms of performance, if 100 per cent fake currency, which was allegedly in circulation on 15th September, 2011, was injected into the economy.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that matter is before the courts of law.
Laughter
Ms Siliya: Boma!
Mr Speaker: Order!
Let the Vice-President respond.
The Vice-President: If I was to take the question by Hon. Mwale as an academic question in economics, I would say that the result would not be good.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Boma!
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, from the two figures given for those two different dates, there is a variance of K500 billion. If you deduct K3.4 trillion on 15th September, 2011 and K2.9 trillion on 29th February, roughly you have about K500 billion. Where did that K500 billion disappear to?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, money does not disappear, but fluctuates. Sometimes, our currency is caught up on top of the wave while, at other times, it is at the bottom of the wave.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President said that if fake currency was put into circulation, there would be negative effects on our economy. From September, last year, to date, have there been some signs pointing to that effect?
Laughter
The Vice-President: That is another question, Mr Speaker.
Sir, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, it is a consequential question from the earlier one. It is a follow-up question. May we have a response, please.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Long live the Chair! Answer!
The Vice-President: Sir, I am sorry, but I am not aware of any consequential effects of anything to do with the currency in question.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
______________
BILLS
FIRST READING
THE PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES BILL, 2012
The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Persons with Disabilities Bill, 2012. The objects of the Bill are to:
(a) continue the existence of the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities and define its functions and powers;
(b) promote the participation of persons with disabilities with equal opportunities in the civil, political, economic, social and cultural spheres;
(c) provide for the mainstreaming of disability issues in national policies and strategies of sustainable development;
(d) incorporate a gender perspective in the promotion of the full enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms by persons with disabilities;
(e) ensure access by persons with disabilities to the physical, social, economic and cultural environment, and to health, education, information, communication and technology;
(f) provide for the regulation and registration of institutions that provide services to persons with disabilities and organisations of, and for, persons with disabilities;
(g) continue the existence of the National Trust Fund for Persons with Disabilities;
(h) provide for the domestication of the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and its optional protocol and other international instruments on persons with disabilities to which Zambia is party, in order to promote, protect and ensure the full and equal enjoyment of all human rights and fundamental freedoms by persons with disabilities, and to promote respect for their inherent dignity;
(i) repeal and replace the Persons with Disabilities Act, 1996; and
(j) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Welfare. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House when it completes its deliberations. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
_____________
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 20, 21(1) AND 101
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20, 21(1), if necessary, and 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.
Mr Speaker, this meeting of the House commenced on Tuesday, 21st February, 2012 and comes to an end today, Wednesday, 28th March, 2012. As of today, the House has been sitting for a total of twenty-one days during which a number of important issues affecting our country have been deliberated upon. During this period, the House welcomed two new hon. Members of Parliament, both of them on your right. Coming to the business of the House, 232 Questions for Oral and Written Answer were posed by the hon. Members on the Back Bench and ably answered, if I may say so, by the Executive.
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, seven Motions were dealt with on the Floor of the House, of which two were on the ratification of constitutional office bearers, three were on the approval of the re-alignment of Government ministries and departments while the remaining two were Private Members’ Motions. In addition, eleven ministerial statements explaining the Government’s position on various issues of national importance were made to the House. I must mention that some of the statements were made on the request of the House while others were by the initiative of the Executive. It is gratifying that the Executive rose to the challenge and provided the necessary information to the House and the nation at large.
Sir, furthermore, twenty-four annual and other reports from Government ministries and quasi-government institutions were received and laid on the Table of the House. The House also considered five Bills in support of the good governance of our country. On another score, the House, for the first time in the history of our country, hosted the United Nations (UN) Secretary General, Mr Ban Ki Moon, who addressed the House on Friday, 24th February, 2012. The House debated a Motion of Thanks in response to the Secretary General’s special address and, through that Motion, was able to put on record its profound gratitude for his visit.
Mr Speaker, hon. Members will agree with me that this meeting, though short, was a resounding success in that the House managed to accomplish all the tasks that were set before it. Let me, therefore, take this opportunity to express my profound gratitude to all hon. Members, individually and collectively, for a job well done.
Interruptions
The Vice-President: Those probing questions from the Back Bench kept the Executive on its toes and also helped it to come prepared to the House for the benefit of the people of Zambia.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
The Vice-President: I would like to appeal to all hon. Members to keep up the spirit of co-operation and hard work. That is the purpose for which the people of Zambia sent us all to this House.
Mr Speaker, allow me to touch on just a number of other issues in passing, which affect our country. The rainy season is ending and, soon, we shall start harvesting crops. I wish to call upon all hon. Members of Parliament to sensitise our people, especially in the rural areas, to look after their produce. As we are all aware, we have been advised by the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock that this year’s harvest is likely to be considerably lower than it has been in the past two years due to lower rainfall received in the early parts of this season.
Mr Speaker, the rainfall in the early part of the season was very patchy. There are areas where you can drive only a few kilometres and you go between a bumper harvest and virtually dead crops. It is important that we, in the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) and the World Food Programme (WFP), get accurate information about whether there are pockets of hunger and stress amongst people because, from past experience, I know it is very difficult to deal with this kind of situation. However, we need ample information to flow, not just questions in the House after the damage has been done asking, “What did the DMMU do?” So, it is also important that farmers do not sell all their produce so that they avert the situation of hunger because we cannot simply be depended upon to feed everybody if they choose to sell all their food.
Mr Speaker, I also wish to place on record the Government’s concern over the sad fact that our country has experienced a rise in cases of gender-based violence, defilement and rape. One of the things that prompts me to ask, and I think we will talk about it in the next meeting, is whether this is due to better surveillance and information-dissemination by the police force or a genuine degeneration in the quality of life in Zambia. However, either way, it is a serious problem that needs to be addressed by all well-meaning citizens together with the Government and its law enforcement agencies. I wish to call upon all hon. Members to sensitise our people on how serious this problem is to make them realise that we all need to put our heads together, not excluding the faith-based and civil society organisations and, indeed, all political parties, to assure our citizens a safe human environment in Zambia, especially for girls and children.
Sir, allow me now to acknowledge the efficient and effective manner in which you, the hon. Deputy Speaker and the hon. Deputy Chairperson of the Committees of the Whole House have handled the conduct of the Business of the House. The House owes its success to your patience, continued guidance and enforcement of its rules in a fair and impartial manner. Let me also express my gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for diligently providing the various services that contributed to the success of the Business of the House. In the same vein, I also commend officers in the Parliamentary Business Division in the Office of the Vice-President as well as officers from Government ministries and departments who co-ordinated the work of Parliament and, thus, contributed to making the work of the legislative meeting of the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly a resounding success.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Question put and agreed to.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
___________________{mospagebreak}
BILLS
HOUSE IN COMMITTEE
[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]
THE ANTI-CORRUPTION BILL, 2012
Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
CLAUSE 10– Tenure of Office of the Director-General
The Minister of Justice (Mr S. S. Zulu): Mr Speaker, Sir, …
The Chairperson: Order!
I do not want to believe that the battle is lost. I have always advised that the address should be ‘Mr Speaker’ or ‘Sir’ but, in this case, it should be, ‘Mr Chairperson’ because that is who I am now.
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairman, Sir, …
The Chairperson: No, no.
Laughter
Mr S. S. Zulu: Sorry, sorry.
Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 10:
(a) on page 16:
(i) in line 27,
by the deletion of the word “sixty” and the substitution therefor of the words “sixty-five”;
(ii) in lines 33 to 38,
by the deletion of sub-clause (2) and the substitution therefor of the following new sub-clause:
“(2) A person appointed Director-General may be removed from office for inability to perform the functions of office, whether arising from infirmity of body or mind or from any other cause, or for misbehaviour”; and
(b) on page 17, in lines 1 to 25,
by the deletion of sub-clauses (3) to (8) and the substitution therefor of the following new sub-clauses:
“(3) if the President considers that the question of removing a person holding the office of Director-General from office ought to be investigated, then:
(a) the President shall appoint a tribunal which shall consist of a Chairperson and not less than two other members, who hold or have held high judicial office; and
(b) the tribunal shall inquire into the matter and report on the facts thereof to the President and advise the President whether the person holding the office of Director-General ought to be removed from office under this section for incompetence or inability or for misbehaviour;
“(4) where a tribunal appointed under sub-section (2) advises the President that a person holding the office of Director-General ought to be removed from office for incompetence or inability or for misbehaviour, the President shall remove the person from office;
“(5) if the question of removing a person holding the office of Director-General from office has been referred to a tribunal under this section, the President may suspend that person from performing the functions of the person’s office, and any such suspension may, at any time, be revoked by the President and shall, in any case, cease to have effect if the tribunal advises that the person should not be removed from office;
“(6) the Director-General may resign by giving three month’s notice, in writing, to the President, of the Director-General’s intention to resign;
“(7) the Director-General shall, before taking office, take an oath or affirmation before the President in the prescribed manner and form.”
Mr Chairperson, I thank you.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, this particular amendment is mischievous and dilutes the tenure of office of the Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). If you look at the draft, the tenure of office is highly protected and gives the power to the National Assembly to decide whether a particular Director-General should be removed from office, but this amendment removes the power of the National Assembly to decide whether or not the Director-General should be removed. It has now transferred the power to the President.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Mwiimbu: That is not supposed to be the case. This particular clause is not in the interest of the fight against corruption.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: We may find that if a President, not necessarily the incumbent but, maybe, in future, is not happy with a particular Director-General and removes him/her from office without involving Parliament. I do not think that is what we want. I do not think that is what the nation wants either.
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, this clause is the same as that for the removal of Judges where a tribunal is to be appointed by the President. That is the only issue.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we are saying that the proposal and the clause in the Bill refer to the issue of the removal of the Director-General to Parliament. However, the hon. Minister has made a recommendation to remove the power of Parliament to consider the removal of the Director-General. This implies that the tenure of office has now been diluted. This is what we are saying.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: However, knowing the way the hon. Minister believes in the fight against corruption, that could not have been his intention.
Mr S. S. Zulu: Sir, I have nothing else to add other than what I have already said, which is that the removal of the Director-General from office is by way of a tribunal appointed by the President. However, that has to be approved by Parliament. That is still there.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ntundu: You have also started behaving like the MMD did over the Abuse of Authority of Office clause.
The Chairperson: Order, Mr Ntundu!
Let us get it right. I want this issue to be clear. I am saying this because I also have ears and can hear quite a number of hon. Members saying ‘no’ even where I am seated. I want this issue to be clarified. It appears Hon. Mwiimbu’s understanding of the issue is what some of the people near me are saying. I am not mentioning anybody. I am saying the people near me. I do not know who they are.
Laughter
The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, against that background, do you still insist or you now understand the argument?
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I do understand the argument, which is that Parliament will have nothing to do with the removal of the Director-General of the ACC from office. He says it will not be referred to Parliament and that is what I am disputing.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Chairperson, the Cabinet sat, not long ago, and came up with the new ACC Bill in which it recommends that Parliament acts in relation to Clause 10 (2) on the removal of the Director-General from office, which your Committee considered and agreed to, and reads as follows:
“A person appointed Director-General may be removed from office for inability to perform the functions of office, whether arising from infirmity of body or mind or from any other cause, or for misconduct, and shall not be removed except by or in accordance with a resolution passed by the National Assembly pursuant to Sub-section 3.”
Mr Chairman, Sub-section 3 reads as follows:
“If the National Assembly, by resolution supported by the votes of not less than two-thirds of all the Members of the National Assembly resolves that the question of removing the Director-General ought to be investigated, the Speaker of the National Assembly shall send a copy of such resolution to the Chief Justice who shall appoint a tribunal consisting of a Chairperson and two other persons to inquire into the matter.”
Mr Chairperson, the amendment that the hon. Minister of Justice is bringing has completely removed the provision where Parliament has to pass a resolution to remove the Director-General from office and the part where the Speaker has to write the Chief Justice to appoint a tribunal. The hon. Minister of Justice is now arguing that it should be the responsibility of the President.
Hon. Member: Question!
Hon. Member: Now read the amendment.
Mr Kakoma: Mr Chairman, the amendment now reads as follows:
“If the President considers that the question of removing a person holding the office of Director-General from office ought to be investigated, then:
(a) the President shall appoint a tribunal, which consists of a Chairperson and not less than two others who hold or have held judicial office;
(b) the tribunal shall inquire into the matter and report on the facts thereof to the President and advise the President whether the person holding office of Director-General ought to be removed from office under this section for incompetence, unreliability or for misbehaviour.
Sir, the two are totally different provisions. We are saying that this amendment is being brought so that the Director-General of the ACC no longer enjoys the tenure of office as we wanted it to be. He or she shall now be removed at the whim of the President. He/she will be hired and fired at any time and that will make it difficult for the office-holder to act professionally. He or she will always fear that if he/she annoys the President, she will be removed from office. That will be the source of the failure of the fight against corruption.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kakoma: Mr Chairperson, what your Committee recommended is better. We must stick to what is in the Bill and forget about this amendment, which should be withdrawn by the hon. Minister of Justice.
The Chairperson: In light of that contribution, can I hear the views of the hon. Minister of Justice.
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I concede.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Ema Ministers aya!
Mr S. S. Zulu: The issue, as I understood it, was on the point that, when the matter goes to Parliament for approval, it should be by a one-third or simple majority, not two-thirds majority.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, against that background, your concession means that, on Section 3, instead of saying two-thirds, we should say one-third?
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairman, it should state that the Director-General may be removed by simple majority.
I thank you, Sir.
The Chairperson: The hon. Minister is agreeing to the amendment. I believe the House agrees to this amendment.
Hon. Members: Yes.
The Chairperson: It is agreed. It will be reflected accordingly. What this means is that Section 10 remains as it is, except for that in change in Section 3.
Amendment agreed to. Clause further amended accordingly.
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
CLAUSE 22 ─ (Possession of Unexplained Property)
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 22, on page 23, line 1, by the deletion of the words “Any public officer who –”.
Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.
Clause 22, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95 and 96 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Title agreed to.
THE PENAL CODE (Amendment) BILL, 2012
Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Title agreed to.
THE EXCESS EXPENDITURE APPROPRIATION (2009) BILL, 2012
Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Title agreed to.
THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2010) BILL, 2012
Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SCHEDULE
Mr S. S. Zulu: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in the Schedule, on page 5, in column 1 by the deletion of the figure “70” appearing against the words “Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development” and the substitution therefore of the figure “76”.
Amendment agreed to. Schedule amended accordingly.
Schedule as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Title agreed to.
_____________
HOUSE RESUMED
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through the Committee of the Whole House with amendment:
The Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012
The Supplementary Appropriation (2010) Bill, 2012
Report Stages today.
The following Bills were reported to the House as having through the Committee without amendment:
The Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2012
The Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2009) Bill, 2012
Third Readings today.
REPORT STAGE
The Anti-Corruption Bill, 2012
Report adopted.
Third Reading today.
The Supplementary Appropriation (2010) Bill, 2012
Report adopted.
Third Reading today
THIRD READING
The following Bills were read the third time and passed:
The Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2012
The Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2009) Bill, 2012
_____
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.
Question put and agreed to.
______
The House accordingly adjourned sine die at 1753 hours on Friday, 28th March, 2012, sine die.