Tuesday, 11^th July, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR MUNDUBILE, HON. MEMBER FOR MPOROKOSO, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UPND INSPECTING CDF PROJECTS

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. I raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 135. This Standing Order looks at admissibility of a matter of urgent public importance. I am looking at parts (a), (b) and (c) of Standing Order 135, especially part (c) which states as follows:

“it involves the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government;”

Madam Speaker, we have noted with concern a trend by political party functionaries summoning civil servants. In this particular case, the Secretary-General of the United Party for National Development (UPND) has not only been going around inspecting Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects but also gone to the extent of summoning civil servants. This is something that we do not agree with as your hon. Members on your left hand side because we are familiar with the guidelines and the laws that govern CDF.

Madam Speaker, this is a very important matter that we feel the Government must resolve. Where we are now, the governance system that we have is a not a one-party state where you have the party and its government. If we continue on this trajectory, first of all, it is going to affect the effective and efficient functioning of the Government and lead to the frustration of civil servants.

Madam Speaker, I raise this matter because I feel it is very important and should not be trivialised. The Government must seriously look into this matter to ensure that we have sanity in the Civil Service.

Madam Speaker, the matter is raised on Her Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in the House. Is she in order to continue allowing party functionaries, especially the party Secretary-General of the UPND, to continue interfering with the proper functioning of the Civil Service?

Madam Speaker, I need your guidance and thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much for that urgent matter. We agree that this is a serious matter that would need to be addressed. However, when you look at it and which matters are supposed to be admissible, this issue is not new. I think we have been hearing and seeing the Secretary-General going around. It did not begin happening last week. It has been there for some time now. Further, we do not know what catastrophe it would bring if that issue is not addressed.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Therefore, I would advise the Leader of the Opposition to bring this matter back to the House using another avenue.

Mr Kafwaya: Which avenue is available?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There are so many avenues. You have The Vice-President’s Question Time. You also have urgent questions under Standing Order 76. I think we have several avenues through which the Leader of the Opposition can bring that matter back to the House.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CAC MEMBERS IN CHASEFU DISTRICT GETTING PART OF THE FERTILISER MEANT FOR FARMERS UNDER FISP

344. Mr Nyambose (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government is aware that members of camp agriculture committees (CACs) in Chasefu District have been getting part of the fertiliser meant for farmers under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), thereby depriving farmers of their full package under the programme; 
2. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to ensure that farmers are not deprived of their fertiliser in the next farming season; and
3. whether the Government has any plans to abolish CACs, countrywide.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, the Government is not aware that camp agriculture committees (CACs) in Chasefu District are depriving farmers of their fertiliser. Like any other district in the country, the fertiliser distribution in Chasefu District was based on the submitted beneficiary list that came from the farmers’ organisations in the district. In addition, collection of packs was done in a transparent manner where members of CACs together with the farmers’ organisation met and distributed the packs. Further, the Government does not support the splitting of Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) packs in any way. However, the Government has taken note and will institute investigations into the matter.

Madam Speaker, through the offices of the provincial agricultural coordinators (PACOs), the Government will ensure that the correct beneficiaries are identified in all districts, including Chasefu, in the 2023/2024 Farming Season. In addition, there will be sensitisation of all eligible farmers on the need to have the right details captured on the beneficiary list.

Madam Speaker, finally, the CACs are a community driven process. Therefore, it is up to the community to decide whether the structure should continue or it can be done away with or indeed the members changed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Kasenengwa, through me, a chance to ask a question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Madam Speaker, this problem is not only peculiar to Chasefu, as much as this is a constituency-based question. Therefore, my question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture is: Now that this has come to his attention and despite his answers, is the Government willing to do an audit in all the camps across the country? This problem is not only prevalent in Chasefu. It is almost everywhere.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, when I was answering part (a) of the question, the last statement I gave was:

“However, the Government has taken note and will institute investigations into the matter.”

Nonetheless, let me add as follows.

Madam Speaker, the camp officers in the agriculture committees are within the authority of the hon. Members who are in this honourable House. We can together with the district agricultural officers correct this situation. We normally do not get involved. We have been guiding that hon. Members of Parliament, chiefs, district agricultural coordinators (DACOs), community-based institutions like religious groupings and ward councillors should all get involved.

Madam Speaker, why are we selecting farmers who do not exist in our areas? The Ministry of Agriculture alone will not manage to select the right people. Together as a country, let us select the right farmers so that we do the right things. This is a very serious pledge which we give every year. Otherwise, we will continue giving fertiliser to the wrong target groups and in the process, the fertiliser is sold outside the country because it is very heavily subsidised fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, the issue of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and fertiliser threatens food security. The people of Chasefu have been registering reports. The latest is what the hon. Minister knows about eighty-one bags which are purported to have been stolen by the clergy. So many people pay to the Government, but they do not receive the quantities as expected by the Government because of the same CACs.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister promised this House that hon. Members of Parliament would be involved. Is he aware that the district agricultural coordinators (DACOs) are not willing to allow hon. Members of Parliament get involved in the process? If so, can the hon. Minister give me a letter? I want to get involved in the process so that the fertiliser reaches the intended farmers in Chasefu.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us listen to the response.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, that is the type of contribution that the Government is very willing to hear. We will, therefore, provide a general letter to all hon. Members of Parliament so that the DACOs and PACOs can allow hon. Members access to the beneficiary list.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, what do we want in this country? We want to give fertiliser to the right farmers. So why would anyone say ‘no’ to that? So we will give out the letter.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, before I ask my question, let me congratulate the hon. Minister of Agriculture for giving me extra satellite depots. After promising me on the Floor of this House, I was given four more extra depots. So I thank the hon. Minister very much. These are the types of hon. Ministers that we want to see.

Madam Speaker, however, it seems there is a challenge in Chasefu. Agriculture is a practical job. Would the hon. Minister consider giving one pack of fertiliser for demonstration in Chasefu Constituency to alleviate the current situation?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, let me start by thanking the hon. Member for his kind words and this is for all hon. Members in this House. If any hon. Member wants an extra depot for procurement of our produce, he or she should just come and we will give him or her immediately on the same day.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, however, coming to the other question, I want to be frank. I did not get it clearly. Is the hon. Member saying that I should just give one pack to Chasefu or what? I did not quite get the question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will allow the hon. Member for Dundumwezi to repeat the question.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me another opportunity. My question was that it is clear that there is a challenge in Chasefu and I want to state that it is everywhere, like my other hon. Colleagues have indicated, and agriculture is practical job. Would the hon. Minister not consider giving an incentive to the camp officers so that they can be using this one pack as a demonstration tool to their farmers? Speaking will not help us. What we need is to give them a pack each. This will probably reduce this situation in Chasefu and the entire country.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Agriculture, we hope the question is clear now.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, it is very clear and I think our answer would be as follows. Under the current FISP on which the hon. Member for Chasefu has based the question, the inputs are given to anyone, unless those who are civil servants and are on pay. Therefore, there is no restriction on the CAC members. The CAC members are actually members of the society in the villages and they are free to obtain the FISP benefits. So they are not restricted at all.

Madam Speaker, if I am getting it correctly, the hon. Member is saying that we should give a demonstration pack probably to the DACO’s office, which it can give to, maybe, the camp officers so that it can be used for a demonstration field. I do not see anything wrong with that. We can consider that so that each area has a demonstration field. However, it will not change the malaise or problem that we have. The problem we have is that the camp members are allowing division of the packs against what we have planned. If I am a farmer and I have applied that I want so many packs, when I am given those packs, they should not be split or divided. People should not share fertiliser in dishes, pots and so on and so forth. Immediately we do that, we are challenging the entire programme and making it fail. So even if we give a demonstration pack, as long as the members are going to share, what are we going to achieve? The issue is to not allow the sharing of a pack. Let the farmer who has applied get that pack and use it in the field. We will, however, consider what the hon. Member has suggested.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing the people of Kabwe Central to ask a question because they are also farmers. I know that farmers in my area have the same complaint as those in Chasefu. Just this morning, farmers in Kabwe were crying and asking how many packs each cooperative is supposed to receive because some are hearing five, seven and twelve packs. So may the hon. Minister tell this House how packs each cooperative is supposed to receive so that even when we are following up, we know that a partcular cooperative is supposed to receive so many packs.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, unfortunately, I came to answer the question on Chasefu. I did not come with information on the number of packs per cooperative. However, the guidance I can give Madam Speaker is as follows: The number of farmers to be supported has not changed. It is still 1,240,434 farmers. The quantity of fertiliser we are going to distribute has not changed. It is the same quantity. Therefore, the same packs that they got last year should be looked at as the packs that they will receive for the cooperative number that are in that area.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us stick to the question and not expand it. In fact, there will be a ministerial statement over the same issue, I think, tomorrow or Wednesday. So, you can reserve most of those questions for the ministerial statement.

The hon. Member for Chembe, you may proceed.

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, for the verification of farmers, there is a concern by the people of Chasefu, including those in Chembe, to do with the letters they need to collect from traditional leaders for their verification. They are saying that there is a cost that is accruing as they do their verifications and that at the same time, there is a cost of transportation to enable them move to where these traditional leaders live. What other measures is the ministry putting in place to avoid our vulnerable farmers from accruing this cost?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I do not know whether that question is related to the question at hand, which is related to Chasefu. I had guided earlier that we should stick to the question on the Floor. Hon. Minister of Agriculture, do you have an answer for that question? 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, yes, I will attempt to answer it because it is a very important question.

Madam Speaker, whatever measure we are putting in place is to make sure that we give fertiliser and seed to the right people. We are asking that they go and verify with the chiefs. Now, the hon. Member is questioning that it is costly. I think we should avoid that thought and let the farmers go and verify with the chiefs that, indeed, they have a field. If we do not do that, that is how come we give fertiliser to traders. We are giving fertiliser to people who do not live in their areas. These are means and ways of making sure that we give fertiliser to people in Chembe and not people from Chipata Constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Ms Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, I would like to know the procedure of enrolling new cooperatives on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). What I have observed is that new cooperatives that are being enrolled are those that are affiliated to the ruling party.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Phiri: Yes! It is those that are affiliated to the ruling party. What is the correct procedure that is being used to enrol new cooperatives?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the procedure is very easy. An existing or new cooperative goes to register at the DACO’s office and if the members are verified as genuine, such can be considered.

Madam Speaker, but remember that it is the same CACs we are talking about here that will sit and accept cooperatives to receive this year. So, it is an issue which every member, including Hon. Melesiana Phiri, should get involved in. At the moment, there are very few cooperatives that have been set aside. We are still dealing with many of the old cooperatives.

Madam Speaker, automatic separation from the cooperative is going to be effected in 2025 because most of all those that have been collecting will be set aside. So, that problem should not really arise. Most of the cooperatives that are still getting are old ones. I am very glad to know that in her area, there are new cooperatives. That is the way it is supposed to be, and not political. No. In agriculture there is no politics. We all feed; we all eat food.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, again, just to guide again. This is a constituency based question. It is simply asking whether the Government is aware that members of camp agriculture committees (CACs) in Chasefu District have been getting part of the fertiliser meant for farmers under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), thereby depriving farmers of their full package under the Programme. Let us not expand the question because I had guided earlier that there will be a ministerial statement tomorrow to look at the registers and all those that are connected to the people on FISP. So, let us reserve those questions for tomorrow. Let us concentrate on the question at hand for Chasefu District.

The hon. Member for Mpongwe, you may proceed. 

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, the camp agriculture committee (CACs) members work together with camp officers. However, most camp officers have overstayed at stations. I can give an example where a camp officer has stayed twenty year at one camp. Are there any plans by the Ministry of Agriculture to transfer the camp officers who have overstayed so that sanity is brought in the distribution exercise? 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, my guidance is that it is important for the hon. Members to note that officers in a district can be moved by authority of the district. So, if he feels that the camp officers in his area have overstayed, he should just go the District Coordinator and they will be moved. The movement of district officers is within our authority as we are here. It is the provincial and national ones who are difficult to move. So, why should a camp officer be a difficult person to move? Let us know our rights and use them and our authority accordingly.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that the Government is not aware that camp agriculture committee (CAC) officers are helping themselves with fertiliser in Chasefu when this is a serious matter. So, I want to find out from hon. Minister whether the Government is in process of instituting investigations or it has already instituted investigations over this matter.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, in answering part (a) of the question, the last statement was that the Government had taken note and would institute investigations. In areas where we have had this information given to us, we have actually had many of these officers put into police custody and some of them have cases running. A good example would have been given if the hon. Member for Chipangali was here. He could have actually attested to the fact that, indeed, we have taken action. We take them to police. We want to get rid of all the bad elements. So, just let us know. We will have them arrested.

Madam Speaker, this is a warning to camp officers, block officers, members of agricultural committees, provincial agricultural officers or any other officer in the ministry. We will get them into serious trouble. This has to stop. Fifty-nine years into Government; we cannot have Government officers stealing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

I will take the last three questions from the hon. Member for Lubansenshi, the hon. Member for Roan and the hon. Member for Kankoyo, in that order.

Hon. Opposition Member: Ba Mayo!

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity that has been given to the people of Lubansenshi, through me, to ask a supplementary question to the Minister of Agriculture.

Madam, indeed, the members of the camp agriculture committees (CACs) play an important role in making sure that cooperatives get fertiliser equitably. Now, to begin with, CAC members work on a voluntary basis. They do not get anything. As responsible Members of this Parliament, definitely, we cannot support that. So, my question to the hon. Minister is: Is the Government able to consider CAC members to, at least, be getting an incentive as they execute this national duty? There are district agriculture coordinators (DACOs) and camp officers who are Government workers, but what about the officers who serve in CACs. What is the Government planning for them to make sure that as they execute the noble cause, they are also taken care of?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

I thought that question was raised by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi.

Hon. Minister of Agriculture, do we have a different answer?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I would prefer to answer the question directly to the hon. Member.

Mr Nkandu: Yes!

Mr Mtolo: There is absolutely no way we would give any monetary incentive to the CACs. That is impossible.

Mr Nkandu: Apapene mwafumine kuli ba –

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, what is a CAC? If we, in this House, are a farm organisation, then we say, in order to not give inputs to people outside this House, let us select a committee and then select the hon. Member for Lubansenshi as the Chairperson, …

Mr Nkandu: Lubansenshi Eeh!

 Mr Mtolo: … why should we give him anything?

Mr Nkandu: Imagine!

Mr Mtolo: He is a farmer and already getting subsidised inputs. So, no, those (pointing at the hon. Member for Lubansenshi), hon. Member for Lubansenshi, are wrong ideas. Do not harbour such ideas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, please do not point at the hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan):  Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has outlined quite a number of issues –

Interruptions

Mr J. Chibuye: Hon. Minister, I am talking, are you listening?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The voices are becoming too loud. Let us not debate while seated. If we want to caucus, we can simply move out and then come back later to the House.

You may continue hon. Member for Roan.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, thank you very much once more.

Madam Speaker, thank you very much to the hon. Minister for the message and the responses that he has given so far, especially that he is going to generate letters that will outline our involvement in agricultural activities in our districts.

Madam, the hon. Member for Chasefu has complained and we can see that he is a bitter person.  I want the hon. Minister to categorically state whether the hon. Member for Chasefu can disband Camp Agriculture Committees (CACs) and replace them with the right people. Is that in order?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, honestly, since I pointed at the hon. Member, my finger is paining. I hope –

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, to answer the question from the hon. Member for Roan, the hon. Member for Chasefu has influence to have the CAC disbanded.

In his own right, he does not have the authority, but he has influence to go and have that CAC disbanded. If he will have any difficulties, I am inviting him to call me. I will make a phone call and that CAC will be disbanded immediately.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I thank you so much for this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, where I come from, we say, isabi lyambila kumutwe ukubola. It means that the rotting of a fish starts from the head.

Interruptions

Mr Mabeta: In the past, it was so fashionable for public servants or people involved in public service to steal because there was corruption, starting from the head to the bottom. Now, should the people then –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta: Should the people in Chasefu doubt –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

This question is very important to the people of Chasefu and others in other parts of the country. So, as we are asking or making supplementary questions, please, let us think of our people. Let us try not to politicise the question. Let us just ask the question so that the hon. Minister gives feedback. The people of Chasefu and other Zambian farmers throughout the country are listening. So, please, let us try to be very careful or very honest with ourselves as we ask the hon. Minister questions that we want our people to benefit from.

Hon. Member for Kankoyo, please, go straight to the question.

Mr Kafwaya rose.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, with the current fight against corruption, should the servants in Chasefu –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Just indicate if you have a point of order.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, with the current fight and the strong arm against corruption, which the hon. Minister is observing because he has a good head, should the civil servants in Chasefu be doubtful of what will follow them should they steal fertiliser for the people in Chasefu?

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you so much.

My point of order, of course, is on my hon. Colleague who is on the Floor of the House and it is based on Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, as I raise this point of order, I want to wave to you the 2022 Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) report (holding a copy in his hand), which I have duly put through the parliamentary system. If you demand for it, I will lay it on the Table.

Madam Speaker, is my hon. Colleague in order to stand on the Floor of the House and start saying there was corruption in the past, when this 2022 FIC report is showing K6.1 billion of corruption? Is the hon. Member in order to say that from the head of the past to the toe, people were corrupt, when this K6.1 billion corruption is actually existing now? 

I seek you serious ruling and I request that you ask him to withdraw and apologise.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you for that point of order.

However, I had guided the Member who was asking the question to stick to the question on the Floor.

Hon. Member, you were out of order because you did not follow the question on the Floor. If you look at the question, it is talking about the present, whether the Government is aware that members of CACs in Chasefu District have been getting part of the fertiliser meant for farmers.

So the hon. Member for Chasefu is asking about the present situation in his constituency. I think I have guided. The hon. Member for Kankoyo was out of order. I had given guide because of the anomaly I saw. So, I have already guided the hon. Member on the Floor.

Hon. Member, after I guided again, you, however, went back to mention corruption and so many other issues. You are, again, out of order. You are not following my guide. Is it possible to withdraw the word corruption because we are looking at the present situation? Can you also stick to the question on Chasefu, which is very specific.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, sorry, I got confused between theft and corruption because these two words are interrelated. The question is about the theft of farming inputs in Chasefu by civil servants. So, I am saying –

Madam Speaker, I can give an example, in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, …

Mr Kasandwe: Aha!

Mr Mabeta: … thirty-five people were arrested for theft of money.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Can you be focused on your question. This is just a supplementary question. Do you have a question or not so that we make progress? Please, can you be specific.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, should civil servants in Chasefu doubt the capability of this Government to clamp down on any theft of public resources by being in a position of privilege?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, it is important for those officers who are alleged to be stealing, and the people of Chasefu to know that if they stole anything, they will be arrested. As our President said, if you steal, you are on your own. There will be no defence, whatsoever. So, they will get arrested. There is no room for theft, whatsoever.

PLANS TO ELECTRIFY SOME AREAS IN KATOMBOLA CONSTITUENCY

345. Mr Anakoka (Luena) (on behalf of Mr Andeleki (Katombola)) asked the Minister of Energy:

1. whether the Government has any plans to electrify the following areas in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)      Nyawa        

(ii)     Kauwe;

(iii)    Moomba;       

(iv)    Nguba;            

(v)     Chooma;

(vi)    Ngwezi;

(vii)   Kanchele;

(viii) Bombwe; and

(ix)    Sikaunzwe.

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
2. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has plans to electrify all the areas highlighted in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, REA visited seven out of the nine areas, namely Nyawa, Kauwe, Nguba, Chooma, Ngwezi, Bombwe and Sikaunzwe in the third quarter of 2022, and undertook feasibility studies to establish the scope and cost of the electrification. The scope involved construction of a total of 249 km of high tension cables, 17.35 km of low voltage overhead lines and ten transformers at an estimated cost of K117 million.  The remaining two areas, namely Moomba and Kanchele, will be visited in the third quarter under the 2023 scoping programme to establish the scope of works and cost estimate. The REA has phased the implementation of the project with the first phase being the Nyawa project under the 2023 work plan and budget at a cost of K23 million.

Madam Speaker, the question in part (c) has been addressed in our response to the question in part (a), therefore, it falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, the people of Katombola are happy to know that they are being considered in the plans that are unfolding. The hon. Minister referred to the fact that Nyawa will be covered in the project that the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) will be undertaking later this year. Is he in a position to indicate at what stage, in terms of processing the Nyawa project, it is; whether at procurement or project scoping stage? Is he in a position to indicate that information for the benefit of the people of Katombola?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, Nyawa has already been scoped and the estimated cost of the works is K23 million, as I indicated, and this will be carried out in this year’s Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO REHABILITATE THE SERENJE/MPIKA STRETCH OF THE GREAT NORTH ROAD

346. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Serenje/Mpika stretch of the Great North Road;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate 235 km of the Mpika/Serenje stretch of the Great North Road.

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation works on 30 km stretch from Mpika to Serenje will be undertaken once a contractor and supervising consultant have been engaged. The works will be undertaken with financing from the African Development Bank (AfDB).  While the works on the remainder of the road section will be worked on once the Government mobilises funds for the project.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for completion of the project will only be known once detailed designs are prepared and a contractor is procured.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to ask a supplementary question on this important road linking Serenje and Mpika. The hon. Minister indicated that 30 km of the works already has financing and will commence at the time stated. Then, for the remaining over 200 km stretch, he has stated that the Government is mobilising funds. Is he able to indicate to the public, through this august House, whether funding for the remaining stretch will be through a loan or private public partnership (PPP)?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, just to give a little bit of back ground to this. The projects that were funded by the AfDB are from Chinsali to Isoka and Isoka to Nakonde. These projects are almost complete and it was realised that there were some savings on those projects. Therefore, the Government approached the AfDB to request that the remaining funds be used for the portion from Chinsali to Mpika and Mpika to Serenje, which I must state that the Government is fully aware of the very bad state of this section of the Great North Road. The permission was given and that is why 30 km of the Mpika /Serenje Road project is covered under this programme.

Madam Speaker, in terms of the remaining section, we are making frantic efforts as the Government to attract potential concessioners to work on the road. However, the process is still very much in the preliminary stage. If funds are found within the Government, we may then be in a position to circumvent the process of awarding this as a public-private partnership (PPP). However, all discussion that I have held with potential investors have clearly indicated that the road from Mpika all the way to Chinsali is available as a PPP because all the traffic from Nakonde will pass through that section. If you look at Mpika to Serenje, it will even have more traffic because travellers going to Kasama, Mbala and Mpulungu also use that section. Some potential investors have indicated their interest but we are yet to see the bid on this one.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, last week, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security did indicate that during the period between September, 2021 and August, 2022, the Great North Road registered 1,855 accidents, and of those, 324 were fatal accidents. Those of us who depend on this road to get to our constituencies wish to place on record that this road is a death trap. The section being referred to between Serenje and Mpika is a death trap. We are getting into the rainy session and there will be calamities. I do not wish to be a prophet of doom.

Madam Speaker, in coming to my question, this road is a gateway into East Africa. It is an economic road. What do we expect in terms of the difference? What difference is the New Dawn Administration, especially the hard working hon. Minister, Hon. Eng. Milupi, going to make on this road?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, this problem cannot be postponed to next year. It cannot be postponed to year because we will have loss of life. So, what difference is the hon. Minister and the New Dawn Government assuring the users of this road to make this time around.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me state from the outset that the compliments are welcome and we need more of those to encourage us. Let me state from the outset that we sincerely and truly feel the pain with which he is asking this question. Those of us who have been on that stretch of road can attest to what he has indicted there. However, the question that he is asking is: What is the New Dawn Government going to do or doing about the particular situation?

Madam Speaker, in answering to the first supplementary question, I talked about the long term and what we are going to do in terms of the 30 km and the possibility of a PPP. As an immediate measure, the Government has awarded a periodic maintenance contract to China Geo-Engineering Corporation to maintain the section of the Great North Road from Lukulu River to Chinsali, which is outside, really, the area that this question is but it is for your information. Whose works are currently on going and are scheduled to be completed by December, 2023. For the hon. Member, who is astounded by the mention of Lukulu, yes, there is Lukulu on that road.

Madam Speaker, the scope includes pothole patching, reconstruction of a 6 km stretch, temporal gravel works, drainage works and edge repairs. This project was awarded at the contract sum of K101 million and the contractor so far has attained a progress of 55 per cent.

Madam Speaker, these works that are being done on the section from Lukulu to Chinsali, will extend to the other part of the road including the one going all the way to Mpika, so that some remedial work is undertaken while we are waiting for a much more permanent solution. The Government does understand the importance of the Great North Road to the economy of this country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I am grateful that the periodic maintenance that the hon. Minister has referred to does not apply to this section of the road under consideration. The question then would be whether we expect the Government to engage a contractor to perform similar works as China Jiangxiu is doing on the other stretch and when do we expect this extension?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, actually it is China Geo-Engineering Corporation. Let me state that the Government had no resources to carryout in-house works. We all pinned our hopes on the debt restructuring and we kept saying that when that is done, we would probably come back to this House.

Madam Speaker, we have developed a list of key roads that need some urgent attention. As you know, the hard working hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the President have achieved that which many people thought would not be achieved. We have the attained the debt restructuring. The next thing we are waiting for is the New Dawn Government, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, to come to this House with the Supplementary Budget. So, I urge everyone to wait but I am not saying that we are going to address all the issues that require funding because of that Supplementary Budget. However, there will be an order of priority setting. So, I ask that we wait and see what comes in the Supplementary Budget. It is at that point that we will be able to address some of these questions more thoroughly than I can do at the moment.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.  

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development a supplementary question. In responding to part (b) of the question, which states that: “If so, when the plans will be implemented”. If I heard the hon. Minister clearly, he indicated that it will be done when the contractor and the supervisor are engaged by the Government through the ministry. Would the hon. Minister be clear about when the contractor and the supervisor will be engaged by the Government, through the ministry.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the answer I gave was with respect to the 30 km stretch that is being funded from the remainder of the funds from the AfDB. In terms of the engagement of the consultant and the contractor, the process has started.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, it is good to hear from the hon. Minister that the Government is considering bringing a Supplementary Budget and this, indeed, will be good for the Serenje/Mpika Road. I also would like to find out if in that Supplementary Budget and on the priority roads whether other critical roads like the Shantumbu Road would be part of that consideration.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kafue, Mrs Chonya, for that question. Let me state that the level of neglect on our infrastructure was colossal. So, when we seek to address that neglect, it cannot and will not be done at one goal. I can mention a number of roads that are equally critical and in a bad state throughout this country. So, what will happen is that we will line up all the roads and use some mechanisms to select those that will go first and those that will go later, and so on and so forth. As to whether the Shantumbu Road is part of this, that question cannot be answered at this time. The project will have to wait until this exercise is done.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, if there is an issue that an hon. Minister brings out on the Floor of the House as he is responding, I do not see anything wrong when hon. Members make follow up questions on the issue that has been mentioned by the hon. Minister himself or herself.

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka):  Madam Speaker, thank you, on behalf of the people of Isoka, for the opportunity to ask a supplementary question. I would to know when the hon. Minister last used this stretch of the road in question because I hear that local investors and businessmen have stopped using that road because of its state.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Isoka wants to know when I last went to that part of the country. I was in Kasama last month and I think some people saw me there. So, I have no problems going there. Besides that, the Government is presented by many functionaries. Whether the hon. Minister goes there is immaterial. It does help to know exactly what is going on and I do like travelling to check on the spot what is going on throughout the country. However, when the hon. Member asked when I last went there, the main issue is to understand and for everyone to know that the stretch of the road in question is in a bad condition. Over that, there is no question whether I am there or not. The road is in bad condition.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, I am also concerned about this road because it also covers part of Chitambo. The hon. Minister just made the Government assurance today. He said that the resources for the 30 km stretch of the road are there and that it shall be done. Following the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha, the hon. Minister has not given us the timeframe in which the procurement stages will be done. The people of Kanchibiya, including the people of Chitambo, really want to know when the Government will contract the supervising consultant and the contractor so that we can tell our people that the road will be done at a particular time of the year.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Member for Chitambo, Mr Remember Mutale, for that question. I have said that the process has started and it will be completed within this year.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, it is good news to hear that there were some savings on the Chinsali Road that was funded by African Development Bank (AfDB) and that the savings are going to be used on the 30 km section of the Mpika/Serenje Road. What is the total amount of savings that the ministry has earmarked for this 30 km section of the road and how will the ministry select the section because the total stretch of the road is 235 km. So, how will the 30 km section be selected?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I would not have the exact figure, but we worked it out and we found that the amount of money can cover the 30 km based on the per km cost that was achieved on the road from Chinsali all the way to Nakonde. That is what I can say on this one.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, thank you very much, I was almost forgetting the question. I would like to know if the hon. Minister can give the people of Zambia the comfort of understanding whether the contractor that will be identified will be a local contractor and when exactly that contractor will be on site.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member, Counsel Chisanga, for his question. I did not get the question, maybe he can repeat it so that I know how to answer him.

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, I want to find out if Zambians can get the comfort of knowing if the contractor who will be identified this time for this road will be a local contractor. For the other part of the question, I think I have been inhibited from asking it.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, that is why I was having difficulties. I have tremendous respect for the hon. Member who is asking whether the contractor will be local or not local. I do not know what local means. All I know is that all the contractors we engage on these roads are registered, here, locally in Zambia. What is important to us is that a contractor will be able to build a road to very high standards. If you go to the section between Chinsali and Isoka, you will find that the road was built to very high standards. In fact, from Isoka all the way to Nakonde, it is also quite good. So, what concerns the Government is that the contractor who is picked is able to undertake that work, and we shall start with the worst sections. He should be able to do it to very high standards.

Madam Speaker, if by ‘local’ he means a company purely owned by Zambians, in selecting who does this work, the first thing we look for is the ability to deliver to the specified quality and specifications. That is what is important to this Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT BRIDGES ACROSS SOME RIVERS IN CHADIZA CONSTITUENCY

347. Mr J. Daka (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)       whether the Government has any plans to construct bridges across the following rivers in Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)        Mwangazi in Mwangazi Ward;

(ii)       Mwami in Kumba Ward; and

(iii)      Mkumbuzi in Mkumbuzi Ward; 

(b)       if so, when the plans will be implemented;

(c)        what the estimated cost of each project is; and

(d)       if there are no such plans, why. 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct bridges at the following river crossing points in Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Mwangazi in Mwangazi Ward;
2. Mwami in Kumba Ward; and
3. Mkumbuzi in Mkumbuzi Ward.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented once funds for the works have been secured by the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of each project will only be known once the detailed designs have been done.

Madam Speaker, as indicated in part (a) above, the Government has plans to construct bridges at the crossing points of the rivers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister a lot for those responses. Let me just give a bit of history on these three proposed sites for the bridges. At the crossing point which is being proposed at Mwangazi River, a vented drift was constructed. A vented drift is a lower level bridge which allows water to overflow during the rainy season and dries up later and passengers take advantage of that. At Mwami, a box culvert was constructed, and because the principles of correct engineering were not followed, it was undermined and washed away. At Mkumbuzi, the same applied. It is not that there have never been bridges; there was a box culvert, a 2,000 by 400 box culvert which was constructed across the Mkumbuzi River. However, the core principles of engineering were neglected. Correcting the right positioning of the bridge and selecting correct sizes and the right structural properties to be picked so that the designs that engineers come up with are followed was never done, and because of these inefficiencies, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, are you debating your bridges now? What is the question?

Mr J. Daka: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am trying to help the hon. Minister respond to my question by giving him further details to what he has mentioned. Hon. Minister, –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, the voices are becoming too high again. We cannot get the question from the hon. Member for Chadiza. Let us lower our voices.

The hon. Member for Chadiza, summarise your question.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, what I am trying to say is that it is not that there has not been funding to construct these bridges, but it is the lack of capacity on the side of the people who were designing and constructing these bridges led to the Government losing a lot of resources. Now that the hon. Minister has known this, at the point at which the funds are going to be made available, how does he intend to control or provide resilient sustainable infrastructure to that effect?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chadiza and recognise that he is asking those questions from the perspective that he is an engineer himself. So, he knows the advantage of having properly designed structures.

Madam Speaker, it is difficult, sometimes, to answer for those who were there before us. All I can say is that in our time, works will be done correctly. There will be proper designs. That is why this Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), shall endeavour to undertake remedial works to ensure that the crossing points are made safe for road users as major permanent works are being awaited. In fact, to agree with the hon. Member, Mwangazi and Mkumbuzi streams, as he knows, are seasonal and become challenging to cross during the rainy season, while the Mwami Stream is a perennial stream; that means the water flows throughout the year.

Madam Speaker, I can assure the hon. Member that when funds are available, the works that will be done will be of a higher standard than that which has prevailed hitherto. There are a number of roads where we have been on site and we have been asked to be a bit more considerate, and we have asked that roads be uplifted because the previous designs are the ones that causing premature failures.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: I can give an example of Tuta Road. Twenty kilometres on either side of the bridge on this road needs to be lifted, and so on and so forth. So, even these bridges that are overrun by water during the rainy season, when we construct permanent structures, we will make sure that issues of that nature will be things of the past.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, the people of Chadiza appreciate those responses. This road, on which these crossings are, connects my constituency to Vubwi and six other wards. During the rainy season, it is a nightmare for the people across to access facilities from the central business district (CDB), especially the health facilities.

Also, during the distribution of farming inputs, it is a challenge to reach these areas. If you delay a bit to distribute inputs, it means for that year, you will not be able to distribute those farming inputs. In the interim, to avert the suffering of the people of these aforementioned wards, what is the Government going to do? How does the hon. Minister intend to deliver the much-needed services to the very poor communities of my constituency in the short-term?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government is fully aware of the situation prevailing along that area in relation to roads like Chipata/Vubwi, Chipata/Chadiza and Chadiza/Vubwi. We are fully aware often need to carry out some works there.

Madam, in his first supplementary question, I said that the Government, through the RDA, will endeavour to under to take remedial woks to ensure that the crossing points are made safe for road users as major works are being awaited. So, that is our commitment. So, I would like to urge Hon. Daka, the hon. Member for Chadiza to engage not only with us, but also with the regional office to ensure that some works are done and if there are any difficulties, we could be contacted, certainly at the ministry, to make sure that we make life easier for the people using those roads and those bridges.

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me the opportunity on behalf of people of Isoka to ask a supplementary to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

 Madam Speaker, now that the Government has achieved the debt restructuring, when exactly are the funds going to be secured by the Treasury for the bridges in Chadiza to be worked on.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I expect that hon. Members of Parliament know their role in terms of the allocation of resources. There will be no money that is issued by the Treasury or anybody that is not covered by the Budget. So, we expect that when the time right, the hon. Minister will come to this House with the Supplementary Budget, which hon. Members like the hon. Member for Isoka will be able to debate and upon debate, pass it or reject it.  Thereafter, the disbursement of funds will follow that process. So, let us wait and see until such a time when the budget is brought here. So, I urge hon. Members that when budget comes to this House, we should support it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye:  Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you once more. I would also like to thank Hon. Eng. Milupi.

Madam Speaker, let me begin by applauding and thanking Hon. Eng. Milupi for coming to my aid over the bridge that was so perennial in …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye: … in my constituency, which is now passable as I speak.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s answer to part (c) of the question, the hon. Minister said that the estimates are not yet known. Does the hon. Minister not think that it will be helpful to my hon. Colleague from Chadiza to know the estimates from to his office so that probably he may fall on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) knowing very well that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development has encouraged us to use part of the CDF especially on the crossing points. Does the hon. Minister not think that it would be advisable to come up with the estimates so that he can advise, accordingly, my colleague from Chadiza instead of waiting for the funds from the Treasury?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Roan, Hon. Chibuye. That is a very good suggestion. In terms of getting an estimate, I asked the hon. Member for Chadiza, who is an engineer to liaise closely with the ministry, but more importantly, with our local office in the Eastern Province, that is the Regional Manager’s office there. If the bridge can be done fairly cheaply on the crossing points then that source of funding could be useful. In a number of places, hon. Members have used the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to undertake some works on certain bridges that can be done locally and so on and so forth. However, where work is substantial and requires the ministry to come in, it is inappropriate for me to give and estimates because when we go out to contract, we compare  the sums that the contractors are offering with what we call ‘an internal estimates’ to make sure that the Government gets value for money. So, in order to do that, we do not announce the internal estimates because people will bid around it and then we may not get value for money.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Let us make progress.

PLANS TO REHABILITATE THE MUFUMBWE DISTRICT HOSPITAL

348. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)       whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Mufumbwe District Hospital;

(b)       if so, when the plans will be implemented; 

(c)        whether there are any plans to construct a maternity wing at the Hospital; and

(d)        if so, when the plans will be implemented. 

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): I would like to inform the House that indeed, the Government has plans to rehabilitate certain departments of the Mufumbwe District Hospital. The assessment of selected parts of the hospital has since been done to quantify and describe some of the works required to renovate certain infrastructure. That is, the maternity wing and the children’s ward.

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the maternity wing and the children’s ward at Mufumbwe District Hospital is expected to commence in the fourth quarter of 2023. 

Madam Speake, there are no immediate plans to construct a new maternity wing at the hospital. Currently, the focus of Government is to rehabilitate the existing maternity wing.

Madam Speaker, in responding to part (d) of the question, as stated earlier, there are no immediate plans to construct a new maternity wing at the hospital. Therefore, it goes without saying that part (d) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I just want to appreciate the hon. ministry for considering Mufumbwe in the fourth quarter.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is not a question. Thank you. There are no more questions. Let us make progress.

PLANS TO REHABILITATE THE GOVERNMENT GUEST HOUSE IN MPIKA DISTRICT

349. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) asked the Minister of Tourism:

(a)       whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Government Guest House in Mpika District;

(b)       if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c)        whether the Government will consider a public-private partnership arrangement on the project.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Madam Speaker, as we strive to answer the question, I would like to inform the House that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has no immediate plans to rehabilitate Mpika Guest House. I must make mention that the Government Guest House in Mpika District is currently being management by the provincial administration in Muchinga Province. However, the Government has plans to transfer such institutions to the Hostels Board of Management as mandated by my ministry under the Tourism and Hospitality Act. Once this is done, the Government will then develop mechanism to rehabilitate the guest house.

Madam Speaker, as stated in part (a) of the question, implementation will take place once the Government guest House has been transferred to Hostels Boards of Management.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to enter into a Public Private Partnership (PPP). However, in the long term, it will consider entering into a PPP’s to rehabilitate Government guest house and other government owned accommodation establishment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Tourism has travelled locally and abroad. I am sure he will agree with me that most of our infrastructure, in terms of hotels and lodges owned by the Government are not up to the standard. Does the ministry have a programme to deliberately upgrade the quality of accommodation that is offered by the Hostels Board of Management, especially that it is one of the options that you are considering to the question that was asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, we have noticed with dismay a number of accommodation establishment doted across the country owned by Government not leaving up to the standard that we deserve when we have an opportunity to travel across the country or indeed abroad. I will draw your attention to the Tourism and Hospitality Act No. 13 of 2015, Part VII, which mandates my ministry to register and grade all accommodation establishment doted across the country, be it Government or indeed private. So, yes, as Ministry of Tourism through the Zambia Tourism Agency (ZTA), we have embarked on a mission to ensuring that all public and private accommodation establishments meet the standard that, obviously, would be amenable to all.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, Mpika is home to tourism activities owing to the existence of the South National Park and the North Luangwa National Park where there are the only rhinoceros in our country.

Madam Speaker, taking advantage of that, when does the hon. Minister consider to transfer that property to the Hostels Board of Management so that it works on it as a matter of agency for it to start serving the intended purpose?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed the Ministry of Tourism has already drafted a Cabinet memorandum which is yet to be presented to Cabinet to approve the transfer of those assets that are doted across the country.

Madam Speaker, I will take this opportunity to just make mention that most of these properties that we have doted across the country were owned by the defunct Ministry of Works and Supply, which obviously has been transferred to the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. However, as one Government, we are looking at ways on how we are going to harmonise all these facilities. This will enable us to have one asset register that will allow us with our colleagues within the Ministry of Tourism and that of Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to use those facilities for PPP’s. Indeed, I am very excited that one of the areas where we have the Rhinos in our country is near Mpika. Obviously that will be used as draw card for people to stay at that Government guest house and, indeed, any other Government official when they travel out of this province.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister have any timeframe for transferring the management of the same guest house from the province to his ministry so that the people of Mpika know exactly when this is going to be done and for them to look after this guest house.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, the timeframe is definitely within 2023, when, obviously, Cabinet sits to approve the transfer of those assets to the Hostels Board of Management. However, let me also make mention that these are some of the assets that have been lying idle, dotted across the country of which we, as the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, have taken seriously in ensuring that all those are assets are firstly, identified by the provincial administration, and secondly, ensure that those assets are titled. We have seen in the past that most of these Government institutions, Government properties have been left idle with no title. Before long, you would find that those properties are in individual hands. So, indeed, we are in a hurry as the Government to ensuring that those properties are titled and handed to the respectful owner of these properties, which is the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO ESTABLISH IRRIGATION SCHEMES IN LUBANSENSHI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

350. Mr Chewe asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to establish irrigation schemes in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency; 
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
3. where the irrigation schemes will be situated;
4. what the cost of the project is; and
5. if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the Government through the Comprehensive Agriculture Transformation Support Programme has prioritised irrigation for increased production and productivity. Therefore, the Government has plans to construct irrigation schemes country-wide, including Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the plans have already started in Lubansenshi Constituency and they will continue.

Madam Speaker, the irrigation schemes are situated as follows:

1. Matowe site in Chief Tungati
2. Sikokonta in Chief Tungati

Mr Samakayi going round greeting hon. Members.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mwinilunga can go round to greet his hon. Colleagues at tea break …

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … to avoid destruction and disturbance.

The hon. Minister of Agriculture will continue

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, further, the Government through the Zambia National Service (ZNS), recently rehabilitated Kasokoshi Dam in Masonde Farm Block, which will be used to support irrigation.

Madam Speaker, the dam is located in Chief Chipalo, yet again, within Lubansenshi constituency. The cost of the irrigation systems which are were mentioned at Matowe and Sikokonta sites are called weirs. These weirs will be between K1.5 to K2 million per site. While the recently rehabilitated dam cost K2.3 million

Madam Speaker, as indicated, the Government is already doing the work and will continue doing the work country-wide.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses. Indeed, he has given comfort and confidence to the people of Lubansenshi because those projects were started sometime back. As the hon. Minister talks about the two irrigation schemes that are being implemented in Chief Tungati’s area, is he able to tell the people of Zambia, in particular the people of Lubansenshi, that, indeed, the projects are being implemented because I am from Lubansenshi Constituency. Last week, I was in Chief Tungati’s area. At the moment, there is nothing that we can talk about. I would like the hon. Minister to convince the people of Lubansenshi that, indeed, those two projects are being implemented.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, definitely, those projects are ongoing. It is pleasant to know that the hon. Member was there and I am sure he bears me witness that the works are in progress. What he needs to know is how to use the weirs for irrigation.

Madam Speaker, we are very happy to discuss with the hon. Member so that the people of Lubansenshi can have water and cultivate more than once per year. So, the projects are there and we are seriously looking at them. We have the funds to support these projects. This is a countrywide programme. Every district is going to receive attention. That is how serious the Government is looking at agriculture.

Madam Speaker, I do not know which other means one can use to give comfort to the people of Lubansenshi that their water problem is being looked at for irrigation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, I followed the hon. Ministers answers. For the two projects within Chief Tungati’s chiefdom, is he able to tell when those projects are going to be completed; is it this year or next year, 2024.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, those are projects to be completed this year. I would like officials to take note of this assurance and ask if by the end of the year, they will not be done.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that this is a nationwide programme. Is he able to give us –

Mr Mtolo interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Mr Chisopa: I have never sold cabbage myself.

Is the hon. Minister able to give us names of places where the ministry is going to place these dams countrywide.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That should be a document? Is it not so hon. Member? Or you want the hon. Minister to start listing them now or you expect a document?

Mr Chisopa: No, I am asking if he can provide a document for those projects.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, immediately the document is ready it will be given to the hon. Member because that is how important the issue of irrigation is.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister be a position to know how much or what the budget allocation is for all the projects to be executed across the country as he indicated.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, we are looking at close to a US$100 million of which half of the amount is coming from ZAMGROW Account and the other half should be counterpart funds from the Government of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO REHABILITATE SOME ROADS IN PEMBA DISTRICT

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, the people of Pemba Constituency are happy to be given this opportunity and are glued to Parliament Television.

351 Mr Hamwaata asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the following roads in Pemba District:

1. Muzoka/Moyo; and
2. Pemba/Mapanza;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; 
2. what the estimated cost of the projects is; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the deplorable state of the Muzoka/Moyo Road and the Pemba/Mapanza Road in Pemba District and has plans to rehabilitate the roads.

Madam Speaker, the plans to rehabilitate the Muzoka/Moyo Road and Pemba/Mapanza Road will be implemented once the Treasury secures the required funds.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of the project will only be determined once the detailed designs have been prepared and contractor is procured.

Madam Speaker, as stated when answering part (a) of the question above, the Government does indeed have plans to rehabilitate the projects.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, the Mapanza/Pemba Road has over ten crossing points which are all in a bad shape. The Moyo/Chisekesi Road has over twenty crossing points, all in a very bad shape. Moyo Chiefdom is a food basket for Pemba and contributes to the food security of this nation. Is the hon. Minister considering helping the good people of Pemba Constituency with box culverts as an immediate measure so that we can use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to sort out just crossing points while we are waiting for the Treasury to allocate resources to be used to work on the roads.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, that is the kind of attitude we like to hear because it is positive. All I will ask Hon. Hamwaata, Member for Pemba, is for us to engage. Where a portion of Constituency Development Fund (CDF) can be directed towards projects like this, certainly, my ministry will also do its part to ensure that the job is done. I think, as is evidenced by a number of hon. Members of Parliament who have approached us and used part of their CDF for some of the works that are being carried out in their places, I urge him to engage with us. We will then be able to determine where we need culverts so that those can be provided.

In the interim Madam Speaker, the Road Development Agency in the Southern Province Region has carried out an assessment of the Pemba/Mapanza Road for the repair/rehabilitation of critical drainage structures, that is what he is talking about, using force accounts. Force account is internal money within the ministry. So, if that is supplemented by CDF, a lot can be done. For the roads in question, the cost for interim works as assessed by RDA Regional Office has been estimated at K3.8 million. So, I urge him to come to the office so that we can find a solution to service the good people of Pemba.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the responses. To begin with, I totally agree with him that we can utilise the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to do one or two things within the road sector.

Madam Speaker, would the hon. Minister think that maybe in the next allocation under his ministry, would he be able to engage hon. Members of Parliament so that they can help him sort out these things using the allocation? The reason I am asking this question is because it seems there is a big gap between his ministry and the people in our constituencies.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the development of the National Budget is a public process that requires that stakeholders are engaged and they can be no more of a stakeholder than a Member of Parliament. It is not just for the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, but all ministries. So, I ask that hon. Members of Parliament engage with various ministries during the development of the budget so that, where possible, their needs also in their constituencies are taken into account. I am very careful in the choice of my words, I am saying where possible because as always for a long time to come we shall be constrained by the resource envelope. Obviously, as we grow our economy, there will come a time when we will be able to address much more than we are able to do just now. So, with respect to infrastructure, the hon. Member for Lubansenshi is more than welcome to come to my ministry to see me or the civil servants so that we can have an input as to what goes into our budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

STATE OF ZAMBEZI/CHITOKOLOKI ROAD POSING GREAT RISK TO PATIENTS BEING REFERRED TO CHITOKOLOKI MISSION HOSPITAL FROM ZAMBEZI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, I would like to welcome back the hon. Minister of infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and I think his journey was fruitful.              

352. Mr Mutelo on behalf of Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): asked the Minister of infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government is aware that the Zambezi/Chitokoloki Road in Zambezi East Parliamentary Constituency is in a deplorable state, thereby posing a great risk to the lives of patients being referred from Zambezi District Hospital to Chitokoloki Mission Hospital; and 
2. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to rehabilitate the road to avoid it becoming impassable in the rainy season.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the poor state of the road and attaches great importance towards ensuring that the road is in a motorable condition.

Madam Speake, the Government through the Road Development Agency (RDA), North-Western Province regional office, has assigned engineers to carry out an assessment with a view of proposing appropriate interventions that can be undertaken on the road. The assessment is ongoing and will be completed by end of July 2023.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the assessment that is ending this month-end. So, what will be the next step after the assessment, attaching the risks that have been highlighted as well as the importance of Chitokoloki Mission Hospital, which caters even for people from as far as Lukulu and Mitete?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mitete for that supplementary question on behalf of the hon. Member for Zambia East. For those who are not fully aware, Chitokoloki Mission Hospital is a mission hospital that caters for many people from far field not just those in Zambezi or those around Chitokoloki. The people in the Western Province know this hospital and many people have gone there because of the service that they receive.

Madam Speaker, his question is after the assessment then what? After the assessment, which will inform us as to how much money is required, it will be our responsibility then to source that sort of money and when it is available, we will carry out remedial works on this road. It really needs to be done so that our people can continue to be serviced by this mission hospital.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MEMBER CONTRIBUTIONS BY NHIMA FROM JANUARY, 2020 TO AUGUST, 2021

 Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, before I ask a question allow the people of Solwezi East to congratulate His Excellency our President for being bestowed with an honorary degree. Congratulations to our President, Dr Hakainde Hichilema.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

353. Mr Katakwe asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

1. how much money was collected by the National Health Insurance Management Authority through member contributions under the National Health Insurance Scheme from January 2020 to August 2021; 
2. how many members were registered with the Scheme as of November, 2022; and
3. how many members benefitted from the Scheme as of November, 2022?

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Madam Speaker, the total money collected by the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) through their member contributions under the National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIS) from January, 2020 to August, 2021 was K 1,146,171,526.76. So, basically, it was almost K1.2 billion, split as follows: 

Period                                                                         Member Contributions

January to December 2020                                          K 506,022,757.00

January to August 2021                                              K 640,148,766.76

Madam Speaker, let me report that the total registered members were 2,742,410. This is split as follows:

Principal Members                              Beneficiaries

1,991,644                                              750,766

Madam Speaker, a total number of member claims from hospitals stood at 1,640,760. This is broken down as follows:

Year                                                     Number of Member Claims

2020                                                     89,428

2021                                                   406,939

2022                                                1,144,393

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, with regard to the hon. Ministers response to part (c) of the question, in terms of disaggregated data, is she able to indicate how many of that number are found in rural areas where villagers like me live? I just want to find out what the uptake in rural areas is.

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, may the hon. Member repeat the question. I did not hear whether he asked for information where the claimants live or not.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, what I am trying to find out is that of the number given in response to part (c) of the question, in terms of the uptake of those who benefitted under this scheme, how many live in rural areas. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell us the ratio for the uptake of the people who come from rural areas such as a villagers like me?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, do you have that information.

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, that information can be availed at a later date. Today, the question did not provide any opportunity to come and present such information. However, for the future, I can make it available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, Zambia currently has 9 million mobile telephone subscribers. From the information we are getting from the hon. Minister, we only have about 2 million people who have subscribed to the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA). Is the ministry considering tapping into or expanding the number of subscribers through the use of mobile subscription so that we can increase the number of subscribers to 9 million?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

The data provided is from 2020 to 2022. So, the figures may have now increased.

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, we have that aspiration. As it is, NHIMA as a health insurance scheme was founded to respond to the need for universal health coverage. So, the aspiration is that we must go beyond. So, one of the initiatives which NHIMA has undertaken is to collaborate with other social security institutions such as the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and the Workers’ Compensation Fund Control Board (WCFCB). The institutions are collaborating to compare their databases so that information is made use of or utilised for outreach activities that are very aggressively taking place right now.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may note that the informal sector is doing relatively well compared to the public sector. The reach is becoming wider and broader. So, we are indeed, taking such initiatives to work with others including the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) to look at the database for employers or taxpayers who are involved in business to use the information for more NHIMA outreach activities.

Madam Speaker, in short, we are attending to the concern the hon. Member has expressed on the Floor of the House. I am sure that as we provide the end-of-year data, he will realise that there is good progress taking place in trying to get more claimants who should enjoy the benefits of the health care that would be procured through this assurance package.

Mr Allen Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, I hope I got the hon. Minister right on the last figures. I hope she talked about the number of people that benefitted and not the money. Does she have any figures with her of how much was paid for the beneficiaries? In case she does not have the figures, does she have any figures of the unpaid money that remained?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, basically, I can provide a generic picture because I do not have the specific figures. However, I can assure or provide information on the Floor of this august House. Generally, at this moment, as we could have heard from previous presentations including the one that was done by the hon. Minister of Health. Unlike a social security scheme such as the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA), where you pay in, but takes a while or a number of years for you to claim, for NHIMA, you put in today, tomorrow it goes out. So, the picture I want to give the hon. Member is that we are at the point where payments or contributions into the scheme and the claims are almost interlocking. He could have heard about the sustainability initiatives that are being proposed and discussed in the background to see –

Business was suspended from 16:40 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was responding to a supplementary question from the hon. Member for Chimwemwe. Just to tie up on the question, we are on the last part of the question. The hon. Member wanted to know the details of what would have been paid out in terms of claims. At the moment, we are collecting about K100 million and paying out approximately K100 million, per month. The investment reserve sits at K1.4 billion. So, as I said, there is a tie between claims and contributions, however, the investment reserve stands at K1.4 billion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Anakoka: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The National Health and Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) has, for a while, oscillated between being a medical insurance scheme and a health financing scheme. Consequently, it is facing some operational challenges, one of which relates to its authorisation procedures. At the moment, NHIMA requires a patient or registered subscriber to get authority by submitting their fingerprints. Now, in situations where the patient is also the subscriber and they are indisposed, basically, they cannot walk and are being taken to the hospital, people are facing challenges in relation to getting the necessary authority. Is the ministry considering restructuring the operations of NHIMA, which could include having its system accessible to all registered health institutions? If so, how soon can that be done?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, I am sure we all appreciate the importance of biometrics in terms of ensuring that we protect the fund system so that only registered members have access. So, it is important that the biometrics are taken. However, there are also measures that have been put in place for emergency situations, especially for patients that are bedridden. One of those is that the doctors can complete a form and NHIMA will effect a bypass for such patients. Doctors are given the authority to undertake on behalf of patients that are not well.

Mr Speaker, NHIMA has also commenced training to ensure that all the players are brought up to date with the intricacies such as the example that has been given so that they take the right pathway, route or action. So, training is part of the programme and it is being rolled out at the moment. The restructuring that the hon. Member is talking about is ongoing and, definitely, NHIMA will endeavour to ensure that the system is made super efficient.

I submit.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question is a rider on the one posed by the hon. Member for Luena, and he just forgot to say that the Committee he and I belong to has interacted with many stakeholders regarding the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) scheme. They are of the view which is in line with what the hon. Minister acknowledges that this specific scheme was meant to ensure universal health coverage, which means to leave no one behind, including those who are not in the formal or the informal sector employment. Would it be so difficult to let this scheme be administered from the ministry where it was born, the Ministry of Health, in order to avoid some of the challenges that are being faced in its administration?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, we, as the New Dawn Government, work as one. As we came into office there were necessary alignments and realignments, calibrations and recalibrations, …

Ms Sefulo: Yes!

Ms Tambatamba: … and re-engineering that made this Government see it fit, …

Mr Matambo: Quality!

Ms Tambatamba: … to align NHIMA with the Ministry of Labour and Social Security. Whenever it sees, again, as it re-calibrates, to refine it will choose where it is most relevant to position any of the statutory institutions.

I submit.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katakwe: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. As one of my supplementary questions, since we are given a chance to ask two, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the responses. I see that from her submission the monies that were not accessed and used are colossal. Does the ministry have any plans to utilise these monies under the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) so that it is able to procure equipment such as laparoscopes, which is used in surgery? A laparoscope is one of the instruments we lack as a country, yet it is vital in the medical fraternity for the treatment of fibromyoma, uterine fibroids, and so on and so forth. Do you have those kinds of plans so that you procure this necessary instrument or equipment we need in the medical fraternity?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I do not know if you are ready because that question is supposed to be asked to the Ministry of Health.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Now, you are talking, Chairman.

Laughter

Hon. Member: Wapya manje.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi East, try and engage the hon. Minister of Health. I think more clarity can be given. 

Let us make progress.

Mr Ngowani: Mr Speaker, most of the health institutions are not offering the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) services. For example, Mpongwe, a district with a population of 300,000 only has two institutions that are offering NHIMA services. Therefore, are there any plans to increase the number of institutions offering NHIMA services?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, the Chamber is full of buzzes. It is filled with buzzes. May the hon. Member just repeat his question as we manage the buzzes from the bumblebees.

I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, repeat your question.

Mr Ngowani: Mr Speaker, most of the health institutions in Zambia are not offering the NHIMA services. For example, Mpongwe, a district with a population of 300,000 only has two institutions that are offering NHIMA services. Therefore, are there any plans to increase health institutions offering NHIMA services?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, we are making continuous improvement. Currently, there are activities that are going on to review, re-project, focus and refocus to see where we are going and see how we can expand the reach of NHIMA services. So, attention is going on and is need based on us, as need arises per institution. So, once the institution applies, they are assessed and a response is given to them as to whether they will be admitted at that moment or if it is in the next few months, they will be advised as well. So it is on a need basis. So, indeed, the people of Mpongwe should not lose hope. I have taken their question and as a listening Government, it will examine the need at Mpongwe, just like we are doing for other applicants. I will revert to them because it is a duty for NHIMA to reach out to all the locations where our people are who need to be reached within the universal coverage are living.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Sabao (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, what are the major sources of financing under the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA), considering that the majority of the people of Chikankata are not in employment.

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, can she just repeat the question. There is a lot of noise in the Chamber.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chikankata, repeat your question with more clarity because the hon. Minister could not get the question because you are asking that –

Ms Sabao: Mr Speaker, what are the major sources of financing under NHIMA, taking into consideration that the majority of people in Chikankata are not in employment.

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, major sources of financing the authority are members’ contributions, appropriation through Parliament and investment income.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to seek clarification from the hon. Minister and remove the surprise that I have been living with for almost two months. The purpose of the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) was to facilitate universal health coverage.

Mr Speaker, here is practical situation: A Government worker who subscribes to the NHIMA, unfortunately, falls sick of a complicated illness, goes to the health facility and is told that he/she has to cater for K45,000 but that the NHIMA is not going to take part. Where is the relevance?

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: I want to understand the relevance of this authority? The civil servant, who is now a patient and at the time when he is a patient, still has to subscribe, but is denied the service of NHIMA, to which he subscribes. He is denied. What is the relevance of this authority? What is the relevance of subscribing to the NHIMA?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, let me go through the purpose of the NHIMA, so that I align with the hon. Member. The purpose of the NHIMA is to implement the National Health Insurance Scheme, whose aim is to help the Government achieve universal health converge, where all people and communities can use the promotive, preventive, curative, rehabilitative and palliative health services they need, of sufficient quality and efficacy, while also ensuring that the use of these services do not expose the user to financial hardship.

Mr Speaker, in executing this mandate, there are different players. There is the NHIMA, of course, which is the authority that is carrying out the mandate of receiving the claims and paying out, receiving the contributions and ensuring that the authority reimburses the health institutions, public and private, that are delivering and are at the front. This is because the NHIMA is at the back end, where it has the money and putting together the insurance package and administering to ensure that the institutions that are delivering on the object of health care are doing their job.

Mr Speaker, so, both public and private sector health institution have a duty at that point of accessing that medical service within the broad range that I have just described here. So, NHIMA’s work is to ensure that there is a smooth flow of finances to go to the institutions in order for it to administer.

Mr Speaker, I think it is our responsibility as administrators in all sectors of the economy to recognise that it is important for excellency to prevail at any point of delivery of public services. So, if there has been a real case where a member who has subscribed, has paid the contribution, and when they go to access a service at the health care institution or the point of delivery then they are denied at that point, of course, that is a matter of urgent attention that will need to be followed up. Take note that the hon. Member will be concerned with NHIMA if it had not paid because the provider pays upfront, and NHIMA reimburses by paying the service deliverer or the implementer, or the one delivering the health care. At the end of the day, we have to take responsibility at different points. The NHIMA has had the responsibility of paying and they do so, until we hear of a time when NHIMA has not been able to pay, then we will have to investigate why the payment has not been done.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member and members of the public should take note that NHIMA does not pay directly to the member when they go to access the health care services, rather NHIMA pays to the public and private service institutions that are delivering on health. So, if the failure of service is at the point of the health care institution and the patient then that of course will have to be followed up to find out why that is the case. However, as for NHIMA’s accountability, it is when it fails to reimburse the institutions.

Mr Speaker, the service will soon need to reach out to all parts of the county, of course, we are working on rolling out to all the different institutions that are delivering health care even to those that were not included in the past because the service was focussing on the higher service delivery like central hospitals, the bigger institutions of service delivery in the public sector of health service delivery. However, NHIMA is now rolling out to get out to the mini hospitals, to the health care centres that are able to reach our people in all the remote areas that may not have bigger hospitals like district hospitals and the type that has been reached out by NHIMA in the past. So, in a nutshell, the fact that the client was not able to receive the health care service may not be attributed directly to NHIMA because NHIMA is not at the front end. So, as collective responsibility, we have to find out in the whole delivery chain, back and front, why such a case must arise where a patient is not attended to because of whatever reason. The NHIMA will deliver whenever a member who has paid, who has contributed seeks or demand a service. NHIMA, in any case, is also delivering even to indigents who have not paid but who are required to just present their National Registration Card (NRC) because they are of a certain age that has been prescribed in the law, NHIMA will deliver and we are delivering. So, this case, I would say is probably one of those few cases that have to be investigated so that there is a continuous improvement even at the front end where NHIMA is not seated because NHIMA cares as to whether what they are paying for is actually happening and is delivering at the front end the care that is described in that universality. So, we are interested and we will always follow up on a case like that.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank hon. Minister, that is quite a good explanation.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, with regard to the hon. Minister’s answer to part (c) of the question concerning how many members benefited, the greatest benefit that members get is that they go to the facility and they find drugs. I will give a short example as a build-up to my question. In Mufulira, there is Kamuchanga District Hospital, which I visited around April and when I looked at the National health Insurance Management authority (NHIMA) shelf for the drugs, it was almost empty and the explanation was that Kamuchanga District Hospital had gone for four months without reimbursement from NHIMA and so it is not able to buy drugs hence the members cannot benefit. My question is: Why does NHIMA take so long to reimburse the health facilities, thereby crippling their ability to provide the services to the members?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question about Kamuchanga District Hospital. That will be unfortunate to hear that there is no medication in the NHIMA Section. The situation is that NHIMA is a health insurance authority. It does not have a section with a particular medication that is bought by NHIMA. So, the responsibility for drugs availability and all the other health care services and care packages in the institution lies on the particular institution. The NHIMA provides the money that would in the follow-up, of course, support that institution to be able to deliver on its services, but it does not buy medications or drugs. I know that there is a part in the National Health Insurance Act that provided for the contribution to Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) drug fund, but that is a different matter to discuss. However, in terms of the direct care support regarding the claims, it does not link to the medications that are bought specifically for NHIMA. A drugstore and pharmacy are the same and we expect that the institutions are well stocked, of course, be it private or public so that members are able to access the drugs and other services that they need for them to attend to their issue.

Mr Speaker, payments are done on a thirty-day cycle unless there is a query and which of course is administrative and has to be followed up, but within thirty days NHIMA should have paid. Hospitals will be engaged in the claiming process. So, there is no reason there should be pointing to a particular box, which belongs to NHIMA patients. On the other hand, patients or claimants have a choice to go wherever, so if they may not find a service in one place, I am sure they are able to sample another place within the array of services health care delivery points that are available within the public and private sector. However, we take note regardless of the issue as part of the feedback to service delivery or the improvement of the delivery of this health care insurance package that comes from NHIMA.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, thank you very much …

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, Parliament is a sacred institution and as we assemble here, according to Standing Order No. 65(b), factual information must be delivered and more so that this is a subject that is dealing with the general populace of the Zambian people. I was not supposed to stand because I thought that maybe the hon. Minister will correct herself, but she has continuously continued misleading the Zambian people against our Standing Order No. 65(b). The hon. Minister said that there is no section in the hospitals and clinics belonging to NHIMA.

Mr Speaker, when you go to Levy Mwanawasa University Teaching Hospital (LMUTH), you will even find a ward specifically dedicated for National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) members. You go to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) and everywhere else in the country, it is the same.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead the Zambian people and herself? Maybe she does not go to public institutions. Is she in order to mislead the House that there is no specific unit created for NHIMA members in Zambia? Zambians are listening out there. Is that the new Government policy that, when you go to UTH, LMUTH or any other hospital, people will not say, “No. You NHIMA member, that is your section”?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker, on this subject, which is very key not to me, not to us assembled here, but to the Zambian people who have been subjected this treatment out there.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. One of the things that we should not do, especially on the Floor of the House, is try to convince ourselves as we ask questions that hon. Ministers should respond to our expectations or answer us the way we expect. When hon. Ministers speak, they speak from a Government point of view, which is a very informed point of view.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, it defeats the whole purpose for you to ask questions if you know the answers. You ask these questions to the Executive so that the clarity that you seek is given. Now, in an event that the Government gives its position, you still want it to speak the way you want to feel. It is not good.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I mean, the hon. Minister has spoken. So, it is. Let us make progress.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:  The hon. Member for Solwezi East may ask his question.

Mr Chitotela interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You interjected while I was speaking. So, hon. Member, you can continue. The Government has given its position.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, in responding to universal coverage without leaving anyone behind, my emphasis is on without leaving anyone behind, is there an age limit for the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) contributions?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, as I was laying out the information, I talked about the principal contributors and I also talked about dependants. That immediately demonstrates that the dependants of a certain age will be paid for by the principal. Eighteen to sixty-five years is the range of those who have to make contributions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the good response, especially that she indicated the significance of the NHIMA, which was created to promote the growth of social health sector protection and in the quest to contribute to universal health coverage.

Mr Speaker, the people I represent, the very poor and vulnerable, peasant farmers from Mushindamo, are asking what strategies the Government has for those who are not even on the database and cannot be on the database. They are there in the remote villages. How can the Government bridge the gap for them to access NHIMA services?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, I am not very clear about the database. I am not sure which database the hon. Member is referring to. Coming back to reaching all Zambians irrespective of where they live, that depends on the load of the service care institutional framework that has been put in place by the Government and private entrepreneurs. Earlier, I indicated that previously, probably the type of institutions in the public sector that were eligible to claim from NHIMA were predominantly in urban areas, in provincial headquarters and in central business districts. (CBDs). However, now, it is expected that NHIMA will be rolling out and getting to rural health centres, clinics and mini-hospitals. Those are channels that are being considered to be added on so that NHIMA can cater for those who are in remote areas according to the eligibility criteria prescribed in the law.

I thank you, Sir.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT A MORTUARY AT CHAWAMA FIRST LEVEL

HOSPITAL IN CHAWAMA CONSTITUENCY

354. Ms Lungu (Chawama) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)       whether the Government has any plans to construct a mortuary at Chawama First Level Hospital in Chawama Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)       if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c)        if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo)): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a mortuary at Chawama First Level Hospital in Chawama Parliamentary Constituency through either one or the other means. As the acting hon. Minister of Health and substantive hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, I am aware that Chawama Constituency Development Fund (CDF) committee did apply for an approval of this project, which approval process is still work under progress.

Mr Speaker, I also wish the hon. Member of Parliament to be aware that the hospital in question was upgraded to first level hospital, and the upgrade at the time it happened, did not include the project that she is speaking about. It goes without saying that ever since the upgrade, the people of Chawama have been taking the remains of their loved ones to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), a situation that has occasioned this question from the hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, further to the application for the approval of the construction of this mortuary or morgue, I wish the hon. Member to note that the Government plans to procure ten units of mortuaries in a phased manner for public health facilities that do not have mortuaries. This is expected to happen in the latter part of this year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Lungu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response. How is he planning to select the constituencies that will receive the ten mortuaries that the Government will build?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I heard her very clearly. I would like to state that the selection of beneficiaries of the units at a time when they are procured in the phased manner will depend on the need levels. Further, I want to confirm to my dear sister or daughter, as a matter of fact, that we recognise the population in Chawama and the dire need for the people of Chawama to have this facility. So, I can rest assure her that at the time when we procure the ten units, Chawama will be given first preference.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: We appreciate the responses from the hon. Acting Minister of Health. Maybe, just to get him clearly; the hon. Minister indicated that being hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, he is aware that there was an approval granted for the construction of the mortuary at the Chawama Level I Hospital. Would the hon. Minister be in a position to know how far that approval went because if it was approved then, probably, it could have included the mortuary units that go with the facility? Would he shed more light on how far that approval went in terms of implementation?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for that question.

Sir, the approval process of this project is limited to the mortuary because the hon. Member would remember that the hospital already exists. So, the Constituency Development Fund Committee (CDFC) received this requirement from the ward development committee’s (WDCs), as a collective, whose requirement has now since been processed by the CDF where the hon. Member of Parliament sits and it is sitting and being attended to right at the office of the Provincial Local Government Officer. So, the unit is a single mortuary unit such as the one that was procured by Kanchibiya Constituency. So, depending on which comes first and I suspect –Both of these funding are Government funds. So, depending on which comes first, if the approval for the CDF comes first, so be it. This means that the ten that are being procured centrally will have to be taken to other Level I hospitals that do not have mortuaries.

Mr Speaker, maybe, let me just say that to build a hospital or to upgrade a hospital, the mortuary is a backlog. It is something that would be required to be done. It is similar to building a house. One cannot build a house without building a toilet. So, clearly, there was an anomaly in the manner in which these hospitals were being upgraded to cater for such a large population of people without looking at the backlog because people die every day.

So, it is a lesson that we have learnt that in the past, hospitals that have high traffic such as Chawama Level I Hospital were  actually constructed without putting due care on the issue of the ones who die or who pass on. So, we are taking this matter very seriously and that is why we have a double-pronged approach that whichever comes first, either the CDF application or the Government funding for the ten units, we will then be all good together in Chawama and they are start enjoying the facility of a morgue without having to take their deceased and dear ones to the UTH.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Lungu: Mr Speaker, once again, I would like the hon. Minister. I just wanted to know the exact time the ministry will start procuring the ten units.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I thought that was attended to. I think it was attended unless, the hon. Minister wants to say something.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I will be slow, but I will say it.

Sir, I said that because of the grave nature of this demand, whichever comes first, the approval by the Provincial Local Government Officer or the central procurement, but whichever comes first, we will give Chawama first priority. Maybe, let me assure the hon. Member of Parliament that let us place focus on this matter together and I would like to invite the hon. Member to remind me just tomorrow to make sure that the process of the CDF approval is done as soon as tomorrow so that the hon. Member can go ahead with her procurement.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

COMPLETION OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF SOME INFRASTRUCTURE AT MKUSHI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

355. Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South) (on behalf of Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North)) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)       when the construction of the following infrastructure at the Mkushi District Hospital will be completed:

(i)        six low cost housing units;

(ii)       female ward;

(iii)      children’s ward; and

(iv)      covered walkways;

(b)       what the cause of the delay in completing the works is;

(c)        what the cost of the outstanding works is; and

(d)       what the time frame for the completion of the outstanding works is.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, I inform the House that the construction of the Mkushi District Hospital Phase III is earmarked for fourth quarter of 2023.

Mr Speaker, the initial contract was terminated due to the contractor abandoning the site.

Mr Speaker, the cost of the outstanding works will only be known once the successful bidder or contractor has been selected. The timeframe of the outstanding works will be then determined when the contact is awarded to a successful bidder.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisopa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that Phase III will be completed in the fourth quarter and this is going to be very soon. He has also mentioned that the ministry is in the process of selecting the bidder. When does the hon. Minister think the process of selecting the bidder will be concluded so that the people of Mkushi North can start receiving necessary services?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the question the hon. Member of Parliament has asked requires me to go back to the ministry and research. As he may be aware, I am acting and so, I could not give the hon. Member a bullet answer as to what is going on. However, all I know is that the processes of finding another contractor is under way, but should this matter be as of serious interest as the hon. Member puts it, my invitation to the hon. Member is to come through to the Ministry of Health so that together we can show one another what pace we are moving on this matter.

 Mr Chisopa: Hear, hear!

________

MOTIONS

(Debate resumed)

Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the ministry developed the National Migration Policy, which was launched on 2^nd December, 2022, and is being implemented by Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security leading in the implantation process. Following the launch of the policy, one of the initiatives taken by the ministry was to review the Immigration and Deportation Act No. 18 of 2010 to ensure that it is aligned with the policy and enhances the rights of migrants. The review process of the Act is under way.

Mr Speaker, effective control of borders and regulation of ports of entry requires prioritisation of resource allocation. In this regard, Cabinet approved a separate budgetary head for the Zambia Department of Immigration, which is Vote 23 - National Immigration Services. The development has resulted in the ceiling being determined by the treasury as opposed to being tide to being tied to the ceiling for Vote 15 - Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security. The department received higher allocation in the 2023 Budget that will help address some of the prevailing challengers that hampered operations. In addition, a new organisational structure for the Zambia Department of Immigration has been approved creating 1,460 new positions, including 190 border guards. Treasury authority to feel 255 positions was granted and currently the officers are undergoing training. Out of this number, ninety-one of them are border guards recruited for the first time to exclusively patrol our border line.

Mr Speaker, the ministry is desirous to provide a conducive working environment for the Zambia Department of Immigration by providing adequate habitable office and housing infrastructure. Under the first phase of construction of housing for security wings, the Zambia Department of Immigration was allocated seventy-one housing units constructed in different locations. The ministry has also improved border infrastructure in some border areas among them: Mwandi Border Post, Lukulu Border Post, Mokambo Border Post and Kipushi Border Post. The ministry has continued to engage the Treasury on provision of resources for construction of more housing units and improvement of other border infrastructure for the Zambia Department of Immigration. The ministry is considering a proposal to establish a dedicated school for the Zambia Department of Immigration. To this effect, 40 ha of land has been secured to from the Zambia Correctional Service (ZCS) in Nyangu area in Kaoma. This will enable the department to undertake recruitment at a low cost as well as enable serving officers undergo refresher training.

Mr Speaker, to have accurate, timely and adequate desegregated migration data, which is central to targeted policy development and decision making, the ministry embarked on the implementation of the National Monitoring and Information System on Immigration Matters and Immigration Control - Zambia Information Management System (ZIMS). As of 30^th May, 2023, the department rolled out ZIMS to sixty out of ninety-eight stations country wide. The ZIMS has been integrated with other systems such as the Government Service Bus System, the Patents and Companies Registration Agencies (PACRA) System, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security Safe City System, and the (Personal Identification Secure Comparison and Evaluation System (PISCES) System to ensure that the national monitoring and service provisions are improved by sharing data.

In the remaining parts of 2023, Mr Speaker, the plan is to further role out ZIMS to nine immigration border controls, namely Muyombe, Sikongo, Shangombo, Kanyala, Sinda, Misale, Jimbe, Kaputa and Muwezi. Further, eleven internal offices, namely Mumbwa, Itezhi-Tezhi, Kaoma, Senenga, Zambezi, Samfya, Mbala, Kawambwa, Isoka and Mafinga are also being connected to the ZIMS network to ensure that the Zambia Department of Immigration provides accurate, timely and adequate disaggregated data on migration.

Mr Speaker, to ensure that appeals are not delayed, the ministry has devised the system of ensuring timely handling of appeals by holding ministerial appeals meetings more frequently. Where the minister has been unavailable during normal working days, the meetings are scheduled on weekends. As a result of this intervention, there is no backlog of cases.

Mr Speaker, despite the successes recorded with regard to control and regulation of illegal migrants in Zambia, the Zambia Department of Immigration still requires a lot of support to attain the desired operational outcomes especially with regards to accommodation and office space, transport, operational equipment, and staffing levels. The Government will remain committed to ensuring that the recommendations in this report are addressed. I urge the House to adopt the report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to wish my Colleague and brother, Hon. Robert Kalimi, who was involved in a road traffic accident a quick recovery. Secondly, let me also take this opportunity to wish myself a happy birthday.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibuye: How old are you?

Ms Mwamba: Mr Speaker, in winding up debate, I would like thank the seconder of the Motion, Hon Mulaliki as well as other hon. Members that ably debated and supported this Motion. These are: Hon. Member of Parliament for Mansa Central, Hon. Chitalu Chilufya as well as Hon. Kampyongo, Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu.

Mr Speaker I would also like to thank the acting hon. Minister for all the Government Assurances that have been contained in his statement policy.

I thank you

Question put and agreed to.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1759 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 12^th July, 2023.

____________

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

CONSTRUCTION OF POLICE POSTS IN KATOMBOLA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

356. Mr Andeleki (Katombola) - to ask the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

(a)       whether the Government has any plans to construct police posts in the following areas in Katombola Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)        Mukuni;

(ii)       Nyawa;

(iii)      Moomba; and

(iv)      Musokotwane; and

(b)       if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker,  I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct police posts in Mukuni, Nyawa, Moomba and Musokotwane areas using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The projects will be implemented when the CDF Committees in the respective wards approve the projects.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.