Tuesday, 14^th June, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT BY THE HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, you will recall that on Tuesday, 7^th June, 2022, the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker directed the hon. Minister of Tourism to render combined ministerial statements on the cancellation of the 2022 hunting concessions, and human-animal conflict in Chama North and Katombola parliamentary constituencies following matters of urgent public importance raised by various hon. Members. The ministerial statement was to be rendered today, Tuesday, 14^th June, 2022. However, I have received information to the effect that the hon. Minister is still out of the country. To this effect, the ministerial statement will be issued when the hon. Minister returns to the House.

I thank you.

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR C. MIYUTU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KALABO CENTRAL, ON WHETHER MR G. LUBINDA, ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE PATRIOTIC FRONT, WAS IN ORDER TO UTTER DISRESPECTFUL STATEMENTS AGAINST THE HON. MADAM SPEAKER DURING A PRESS CONFERENCE HELD ON WEDNESDAY, 8^TH DECEMBER, 2021

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have a ruling to render against Mr Given Lubinda, an outsider, who was found in breach of parliamentary privileges and in contempt of the House by the Committee on Privileges and Absences.

Following its finding, the Committee recommended that Mr Given Lubinda be reprimanded at the Bar of the Assembly in accordance with Section 28(4) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Chapter 12 of the Laws of Zambia, Section 28(4), which states as follows:

“If a person, not being a member, is found to have committed contempt, whether specified in section nineteen or otherwise, the Speaker shall order the person to appear before the Assembly, and the Speaker shall, upon attendance, admonish or reprimand the person at the Bar of the Assembly.”

In accordance with this provision, Mr Given Lubinda was summoned to appear before the House today. He, however, has elected to not do so in disregard of the summons. I will, nonetheless, proceed to render the ruling. Further, since Mr Lubinda has failed to appear before the House despite being summoned, the matter will be dealt with in accordance with Section 11(a) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which provides as follows:

“A person summoned by the Assembly or a committee under section eleven and who fails, without reasonable cause, to attend before the Assembly or the committee at the time and place specified in the summons commits an offence and is liable, upon conviction, to a fine not exceeding ten thousand penalty units or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to both.”

I now proceed to render the ruling.

Hon. Members, you will recall that on Wednesday, 8^th December, 2021, when the House was considering a Private Member’s Motion moved by Mr C. Kang’ombe, hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa Constituency, and Mr G. Mwila, hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira Constituency, had just finished debating, Mr C. Miyutu, hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central, raised a point of order on Mr Lubinda, Vice-President of the Patriotic Front (PF) political party, based on a statement that had allegedly been uttered by Mr G. Lubinda at a PF press conference, which Hon. Miyutu said had been covered by various media houses, including Muvi Television. In his point of order, Hon. Miyutu alleged that in reference to the Speaker, Mr Lubinda was quoted saying the following at the press conference:

“A social studies pupil is more informed than the current Speaker of the House.”

Mr Miyutu further stated that according to Section 19(d) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, no one was allowed to demean the Speaker.

I referred Hon. Miyutu’s complaint to the Committee on Privileges and Absences for hearing and determination.

Hon. Members, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and in accordance with the rules of natural justice, on 21^st December, 2021, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to Mr Lubinda, requesting him to confirm whether the statement in question had been correctly attributed to him. In response, Mr Lubinda requested for further and better particulars regarding the letter written to him by the Office of the Clerk. In particular, he requested the Office of the Clerk or Hon. Miyutu to state which media house or houses was or were alleged to have quoted him before he could comment on the allegation. So, on 2^nd March, 2022, the Office of the Clerk informed Mr Lubinda that one of the media houses that had covered the press conference was Muvi Television and subsequently requested him to appear before the Committee on Privileges and Absences. In response, by a letter dated 3^rd March, 2022, Mr Lubinda requested the Office of Clerk to avail him the material that had been published by Muvi Television to enable him to study it and make an informed response. Following that response, the Office of the Clerk transcribed the relevant portion of the statement and sent it to Mr Lubinda for confirmation of whether the statement had been correctly attributed to him. By a letter dated 11^th March, 2022, Mr Lubinda stated that the transcription had not been correctly attributed to him. The Office of the Clerk then wrote to Muvi Television requesting the station for footage of the press conference, and the station availed the office the footage.

Hon Members, the point of order raised by Hon. Miyutu raises the issue of a person committing contempt of the House by making statements that are disrespectful to the Speaker. As you are aware, the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act is instructive in this regard, as it provides, in Section 19(d) and (e), as follows:

“19. Any person shall be guilty of an offence who –

“(d) shows disrespect in speech or manner towards the Speaker; or

“(e) commits any other act of intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.”

Further, eminent writers on parliamentary practice and procedure, S. L. Shakdher and M. N. Kaul, in their book entitled, Practice and Procedure of Parliament, 7^th Edition (New Delhi: Lok Sabha, 2016), state as follows at page 304:

“It is a breach of privilege and contempt of the House to make speeches, or to print or publish any libels, reflecting on the character or proceedings of the House or its committees.

“Speeches and writings reflecting on the House or its committees or members are punished by the House as contempt on the principle that such acts tend to obstruct the Houses in the performance of their functions by diminishing the respect due to them.”

Furthermore, Erskine May, in his book entitled Parliamentary Practice, 22^nd Edition, states at page 123:

“Reflections on the character of the Speaker or accusations of partiality in the discharge of his duties and similar charges against the Chairman of Ways and Means have attracted penal powers of the Commons.”

Hon. Members, further, the erstwhile Speaker of the National Assembly of Zambia, Hon. Amusaa Mwanamwambwa, had occasion to rule on a similar matter in the case of Antonio Mwanza and Stanford Kabwata (Parliamentary Debates of the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly, 29^th June - 6^th August, 2010, at pages 959-967), a matter in which Mrs Josephine C. Mumbi-Phiri, then hon. Member of Parliament for Munali Constituency, had raised a point of order on whether Mr V. J. Mwaanga, then Government Chief Whip, was in order to keep quiet on statements that had been made by two outsiders during a live broadcast on Muvi Television, which she had described as disparaging and casting aspersions on the Speaker. The matter was referred to the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, as the Committee was then called, for consideration, and the Committee established that the duo’s utterances had been disrespectful to the Speaker and amounted to an affront to his authority, which was a breach of privilege and contempt of the House. Upon realising the seriousness of the allegations against the duo, Mr Kabwata unreservedly apologised to the Committee. However, Mr Mwanza showed no remorse. So, the Committee resolved that Mr Mr Kabwata be admonished and Mr Mwanza be reprimanded. The Hon. Mr Speaker ruled in accordance with the recommendations of the Committee.

Hon. Members, from the foregoing authorities, it is clear that it is a breach of parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House for a person to make statements that are disrespectful to the Speaker, or to commit any other act of intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.

Hon. Members, the Committee on Privileges and Absences met and deliberated on the matter on Thursday, 24^th March, 2022. During its deliberations, the Committee had recourse to the relevant clip of the Muvi Television footage, the point of order and the correspondence between Mr Lubinda and the Office of the Clerk. Additionally, Mr M. Phiri, Director of Administration, and Mr I. Phiri, News Editor/Reporter, both of Muvi Television, appeared before the Committee to authenticate the video footage. After considering the footage, point of order and correspondence between Mr Lubinda and the Office of the Clerk, the Committee established the following:

1. during his press conference at the PF Secretariat broadcast on Muvi Television, Mr Lubinda had made a statement that was contemptuous to the Hon. Madam Speaker and the House;

1. despite the Committee bringing it to Mr Lubinda’s attention that his statement was contemptuous, Mr Lubinda decided to not address the matter, opting instead to dwell on the words that had been used by Hon. Miyutu when raising the point of order, which he characterised as being not an accurate quotation; and

1. even though the words in the point of order were not word-for-word quotations of what Mr Lubinda had said, Mr Lubinda’s statement was contemptuous to the Hon. Madam Speaker, in particular, and the House, in general.

The Committee, therefore, found that Mr Lubinda was in breach of parliamentary privilege and in contempt of the House.

Hon. Members, in arriving at the punishment to mete out on Mr Lubinda, the Committee noted that the offence committed was serious because the statement made had been broadcast to the entire nation. In addition, the Committee considered the fact that despite being guided and written to several times, Mr Lubinda did not appear to respond to the allegation that he had made a contemptuous statement against the Hon. Madam Speaker, rather choosing to dwell on the words used to raise the point of order. Further, Mr Lubinda was adamant that the statement he had made against the Hon. Madam Speaker was not contemptuous, and he did not show any remorse for his conduct, especially in refusing to appear before the Committee. The Committee, therefore, resolved that Mr Lubinda be reprimanded at the Bar of the Assembly in accordance with Section 28(4) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act.

Hon. Members, although Mr Lubinda is not present in the House, I will proceed to reprimand him in absentia as resolved by the Committee.

Mr Given Lubinda, the House is extremely displeased with your conduct at the press conference held by the PF party on Wednesday, 8^th December, 2021. At the said press conference, you made contentious remarks that did not only show disrespect to my office, but also demeaned the dignity and decorum of this august House. Such conduct is unacceptable and unbefitting your status as a person who served this House for a long time, both as a Backbencher and as an hon. Minister. I, therefore, urge you to endeavour to abide by the rules of this House and desist from such misconduct in the future.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR J. E. BANDA, MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF EDUCATION, FOR ALLOWING PUPILS TO NOT FOLLOW COVID-19 GUIDELINES IN SCHOOLS

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, school-going children in Petauke Central and Zambia at large are not following the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) guidelines, and many of them are sick. As I speak, some are in hospitals suffering from flu because of the cold weather. They have tried different medicines, but they are still not getting healed. Is the hon. Minister of Education in order to allow school-going children to not follow COVID-19 guidelines while we, their leaders here, in Parliament, follow the guidelines?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER FOR PAMBASHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, ON ADMINISTRATION OF THE CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: I thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on this matter pursuant to Standing Order No. 34. To be specific, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance on the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Mr Chitotela paused.

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Chitotela: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, my brother, Mr Gary Nkombo, in order to allow silence and let His Excellency the President give a directive to hon. Members of Parliament and Councillors to resolve the bottlenecks hindering the smooth utilisation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), yet the situation has been caused by the Executive?

Madam Speaker, I will lay on the Table the Constituency Development Fund Guidelines and the letter written by the Permanent Secretary (PS) in Charge of Administration in the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. For the purpose of admissibility of the documents, I must state that the documents were legally obtained, as I am a member of the CDF Committee in Pambashe Constituency and, on 27^th May, 2022, we met and the circular was made available to members.

Madam Speaker, last week, His Excellency the President was on the Copperbelt, and he directed Councillors and hon. Members of Parliament to, within sixty days, resolve the bottlenecks that are hindering the utilisation of the CDF. I believe that in sixty days, in September, His Excellency the President will be here to open the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly of the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, my concern is that the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development is very active and hardworking, but the people of Pambashe are wondering whether it is he; the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts; the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services; or the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who is causing the confusion in the utilisation of the CDF.

Madam Speaker, the latest circular sent to all the councils, dated 21^st April, 2022 reads:

“All the Town Clerks and Council Secretaries, the City, Municipal and Town Councils, Republic of Zambia

“RE: CDF Disbursement K6,433,000. 67

“The above subject refers.

“As you may be aware, a total of K1 billion has to date been disbursed to all the 156 constituencies across the country, translating into a disbursement of K6,433,695.67 per constituency. The funds are meant to cater for secondary, boarding schools, and skills development bursaries, youth, women and community empowerment. The community projects and administrative cost in the proportionate as per CDF guidelines

“Below is a table showing the breakdown of the resource allocation per component for funds disbursed:

“S/N    Component                                                                            Amount (ZMW)

“1.0     Community-Based Project                                                      3,483,846.21

            Disaster Contingency

            (5% of Community Based Projects)                                         183,360.00

            Total                                                                                       3,667,206.54

“2.0     Youth, Women and Community

            Empowerment

            Grants-40%                                                                                  488,960.87

            Soft Loans -60%                                                                          733,441.31

            Total                                                                                         1,222,402.18

“3.0     Bursaries and Secondary Schools                                              1.222,402.18

            and Skills Development                                                         

“4.0     Administrative Costs                                                                          321,000

            Total                                                                                              643, 695.67.”

The matter of interest, Madam Speaker, is this:

“Ensure funds are utilised as guided. Further, you are instructed to transfer monies relating to soft loans amounting to K733,441 from your CDF main account to the CDF revolving fund. Further guidelines on the management of the revolving fund will be availed.”

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President directed us and Councillors. However, we are at pains to understand the instruction because when we enquire from the Council Secretaries (CSs), we are told that the Government will have to appoint a fund manager. By “Government”, I mean the Executive.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development being fair to his fellow hon. Members of Parliament and Councillors who have received the directive? We have no power to unlock the usage of the CDF because the bottom line lies with the Executive. In the recent past, for example, the Executive transferred the principal officers who are responsible for implementation of CDF projects midway –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you are now debating your point which, I think, has been made. I will make a ruling.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to sit quietly without helping to resolve the directive that we, the hon. Members of Parliament and Councillors, have been given to resolve the bottlenecks in the utilisation of the CDF when circulars have been coming from the Executive?

I seek your guidance.

MR MUTINTA, HON. MEMBER FOR ITEZHI-TEZHI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF EDUCATION, ON THE SAFETY OF CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Itezhi-Tezhi the opportunity to raise this matter of urgent public importance. The matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Education.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, in the last one week, the country registered several atrocities on children in schools. For example, at Mukamambo Secondary School, two children were expelled after being defiled. Further, at the weekend, a child died in Kabwata in circumstances that cannot be explained and, in Mazabuka, we registered the deaths of four children who drowned while swimming in a flooded pit. This calls for serious attention, and I ask the hon. Minister of Education what steps are being taken to address issues of children’s safety in schools so that we uplift the juvenile justice system which, at the moment, is at its lowest in Zambia.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

MR MANDANDI, HON. MEMBER FOR SIOMA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM, ON ELEPHANTS RAVAGING CROP FIELDS IN SIOMA

Mr Mandandi (Sioma): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mandandi: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Sioma an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter I raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that the hon. Minister has been directed to issue a ministerial statement to the House. However, I also place on record our concern, which is that the people of Sioma’s fields have been destroyed by elephants, and that is now a special case because the elephants have not only gone on rampage destroying our crops, but have also started killing our domestic animals. Just yesterday, I received a complaint from one of the villagers whose two herds of cattle had been killed by elephants. The elephants roam around the villages in the farms and our fields. So, our people are in danger. Truth be told, our farmers will come out of their fields without anything, and they have now become food-insecure.

Madam Speaker, when will the Government consider offloading maize to the good people of Sioma through community sales? We are not asking for relief maize, but for community sales, and there are enough maize stocks at the Nangweshi Food Reserve Agency (FRA) sheds.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

MR KATAKWE, HON. MEMBER FOR SOLWEZI EAST, ON THE HON. MINISTERS OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, AND HEALTH, ON A MEASLES OUTBREAK IN SOLWEZI DISTRICT

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Katakwe: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Solwezi East an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance directed to the hon. Ministers of Transport and Logistics, and Health.

Madam Speaker, a few days ago, measles broke out in my district on the border with the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), and it has been observed that the children in that area have had no history of immunisation and that as a result of the outbreak, a number of lives are being lost. For example, just three days ago, I was told that about eighteen children had died in addition to the thirty who died a week ago. My concern is that the only mini-hospital that was opened has only one ambulance and one doctor, making it very difficult to cover the entire district. It is also difficult to do sensitisation and surveillance work and undertake other activities in view of the outbreak, which is, actually, now spreading and everyone is now concerned about the lives of our children.

Madam Speaker, are the hon. Ministers of Transport and Logistics, and Health in order to keep quiet, rather than move very fast before measles reaches even our children in Lusaka?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling before many lives are lost.

MR LUNGU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KAPOCHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON MOTOR VEHICLE AND MOTORCYCLE THEFT IN SINDA

Mr Lungu (Kapoche): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

This is now the sixth point to be raised, and it will be the final one.

Mr Lungu: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Kapoche a chance to rise on a matter of urgent public importance. My matter of urgent public importance is on the theft of motor vehicles and motorcycles in Sinda District.

Madam Speaker, about seven vehicles have been stolen in Sinda District but, so far, no arrests have been made. As for motorcycles, the stealing has been on-going for some time now. Just yesterday, a teacher was killed by criminals who got away with his motorcycle.

Madam Speaker, I hereby direct my question to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for him to look into the matter before more lives are lost.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, thank you very much for those matters of urgent public importance that have been raised.

Hon. Members, before I proceed to comment on the various matters that have been raised, I remind you to familiarise yourselves with Orders Nos. 134 and 135 of our Standing Orders. I say this because there has been a tendency among you to raise as matters of urgent public importance under these Standing Orders issues that do not qualify. So, as you raise these points, you must ask yourselves first whether they are, in addition to the other criteria stated, life-and-death matters. If not, there is no need to raise them under Standing Order No. 134, as there are other means under which your concerns can be brought to the attention of the Executive for redress, such as through Questions for Oral Answer or the forty-five-minute Vice-President’s Question Time on Fridays. Having said that, let me now deal with each matter that has been raised.

The hon. Member for Petauke Central raised a matter concerning the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.

Hon. Member, this matter is well-known to the Government, which has, through the Ministry of Health, already put measures in place to make sure that citizens are protected. So, it does not qualify to be raised as one of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 134. Your issue can, therefore, be addressed through other avenues, such as questions, as I advised earlier.

The hon. Member for Pambashe has raised a matter of urgent public importance on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Guidelines.

The hon. Member is aware that on Wednesday, there will be a Private Member’s Motion on the CDF Guidelines that is going to be debated by this honourable House. As the matter will be open for debate, hon. Members will raise their issues and the hon. Minister will respond to the concerns. So, again, this matter can wait. Let us address it on Wednesday, not today.

The hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi raised a concern about incidences in various schools in which some children have died through accidents while others have drowned. I do not know whether the hon. Minister of Education is here.

The hon. Minister is not here. However, because lives have been lost, and I think it is the desire of this honourable House to not lose the lives of our children through the negligent acts of schools or anything of that nature, he is ordered to render a ministerial statement this Friday on this matter. This is in order for him to apprise this House and, through it, the people of Zambia on the measures being taken to ensure that lives are not lost through the criminally negligent activities of the people in whose hands children are entrusted.

The hon. Member for Sioma raised the issue of human-animal conflict.

Earlier, I announced that the hon. Minister of Tourism was to render a ministerial statement on human-animal conflict and the cancellation of hunting concessions. Since the hon. Minister will come through at an appropriate time to issue that statement, the hon. Member for Sioma can wait for that session to put a question to him on the concerns that he has raised. On the issue of offloading maize, the hon. Member is advised to liaise with the hon. Minister of Agriculture on when that could be done. This matter is important, as it raises the issue of hunger, but it is not a matter of life and death. So, the hon. Member can file in a question to the hon. Minister or Her Honour the Vice-President during the Vice-President’s Question Time on Friday.

The hon. Member for Solwezi East raised the issues of children dying because of an outbreak of measles and transportation. I did not get the – just a moment. It was about the outbreak of measles.

I have seen some reports in the papers about an outbreak of measles. Since the Government has not taken measures to alert the people, the hon. Minister of Health is directed to render a ministerial statement before this honourable House to explain what measures are being taken regarding that outbreak. The statement will be issued on Tuesday, next week.

The issue of theft of motor vehicles, hon. Member for Kapoche, is, again, not a matter of life and death. If vehicles are being stolen and there are no arrests, I am sure, you can find another mechanism through which you can raise the issue so that it is brought to the attention of the hon. Minister in charge of the Zambia Police Service so that he can make a follow-up and answer your question.

That concludes the matters of urgent public importance raised.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

EMPOWERMENT OF WOMEN AND YOUTH CO-OPERATIVES IN CHITAMBO DISTRICT

338. Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu) (on behalf of Mr Mutale (Chitambo)) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

(a)        whether the Government has any plans to empower women and youth co-operatives in Chitambo District with agricultural machinery;

(b)        if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c)        if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of procedure is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my point of procedure is based on Standing Order No. 129.

Madam Speaker, let me begin by appreciating your according me this opportunity to rise on this point of procedure.

Madam Speaker, your office directed the hon. Minister of Tourism to render a ministerial statement to this House today on a matter that was raised by various hon. Members which, today, has been supplemented by the matter raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Sioma, signifying its importance. Today, your office made an announcement to the effect that the hon. Minister who should have been here to give an account on behalf of the Government is out of the country. However, your hon. Members did not, and do not, seek the hon. Minister’s personal opinion; what they seek is the Government’s position, and it is our understanding that when a Minister leaves the country, there is an Acting Minister and that in the absence of an Acting Minister, there is the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Further, it is our understanding that in the absence of all those, there is the Government Chief Whip. So, for this United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to avoid accountability on account of the absence of one hon. Minister from the country is shocking to me.

Hon. PF Members: It has shocked all of us.

Mr Kafwaya: It has shocked all of us.

Madam Speaker, is the Leader of Government Business in the House in order to allow the circumvention of accountability simply because one hon. Minister is out of the country?

I seek you serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, when we just opened the sitting, I made an announcement. Of course, it is important that when the Speaker directs a Minister to issue a ministerial statement, the directive is complied with without fail.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: When a Minister is out on Government business, an Acting Minister is supposed to render the statement.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: However, we have not been advised on who was supposed to render that statement. Efforts were made to ensure that the ministerial statement was rendered as advised, but it was requested that since the substantive hon. Minister who understood the issues that had been raised was not around, leeway be given for him to answer the questions raised later. So, although I know that parliamentary business takes precedence, I exercise my discretion to allow that. However, may it be noted that in future, such excuses will not be allowed.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: When a directive is issued with regard to a ministerial statement, the statement must be rendered accordingly so that the people are informed and hon. Members’ concerns are addressed. So, may this be the last time an hon. Minister who is ordered to issue a ministerial statement does not do so, because that will not be accepted.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote) (on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo)): Madam Speaker –

Mr Kabuswe crossed the Floor.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development in order to pass between your Chair and the hon. Minister who is presenting a statement on the Floor of the House? Does that hon. Minister need another workshop?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister is definitely out of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The rules are very clear. So, let us observe them.

The hon. Minister may proceed.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the mandate of co-operatives falls under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. I, therefore, advise that the question be directed to that ministry. That notwithstanding, the New Dawn Government plans to increase agricultural production and productivity through a number of programmes outlined in the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP). One of the priority programmes, in this respect, is agricultural mechanisation. In this regard, the Government is formulating a national mechanisation strategy to inform stakeholder investment in agricultural mechanisation. The strategy, which will be inclusive, will cover the interests of both women and youths in the sector.

Madam Speaker, like I have already stated, the plans and the programme are under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises, which is mandated to administer co-operatives.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Chama South.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, it is a point of procedure under Standing Orders Nos. 129 and 65, which provide that the information provided on the Floor of the House should be factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, you have explained to your hon. Members in this august House that the reason the hon. Minister of Tourism has failed to render a ministerial statement is that he is out of the country. However, I have reliable information to the effect that yesterday evening, the hon. Minister was with one of my very close colleagues. Therefore, the information that the Government has provided you with is inaccurate unless the hon. Minister travelled after midnight or this morning.

Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President in a position to show to this august House proof of the hon. Minister’s trip, in terms an air ticket and bookings? We want to verify whether the hon. Minister is, indeed, outside the country, not merely dodging being accountable to your august House, because our people, especially those who work for the outfitters, are suffering and troubling us. You have also heard that animals are on rampage, and that is likely to also affect conservation, as was the case in the past.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, I have already commented on this matter. So, let us not flog a dead horse; let us leave it. The hon. Minister of Tourism has been given the benefit of doubt. Let him render the ministerial statement as ordered when he comes.

Let us make progress.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister has accepted that the Government has plans to empower some women and youths in Chitambo. Further, he has told this House that that plan is in the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP). However, from where I stand, the 8NDP is still a draft because it has not been approved by this House and, according to the Budgeting and Planning Act of 2020, for any development plan to be in effect, it should be approved by this House. So, can we take the hon. Minister’s answer that the Government has plans seriously when he is referring to a document that has not be approved by this House?

Mr Chikote: From the outset, Madam Speaker, I stated that the mandate for co-operatives is under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, as I am talking to you, …

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chikote: … the programme for the youths and women who have formed co-operatives is in the hands of the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, whose programmes are active. Also, as I said, we, as a Government, have a general strategy of improving agricultural production and productivity, hence my going further to state that the strategy that we are coming up with is under the 8NDP.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Pambashe, you are anxiously trying to raise a point of order. What is your point of order?

Mr Chitotela: I am at pains, Madam Speaker, to hear my friends in the Executive and, probably, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly misdirecting this is Parliament and Zambians, whom we are here to represent, and who are listening.

Madam Speaker, the Government has a duty, through the line ministries, to provide information. When hon. Ministers are not there, there is the Leader of Government Business in the House or an Acting hon. Minister. So, if the question we are dealing with is directed to the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, and I see him seated next to the Acting hon. Minister of Agriculture, why is the Acting hon. Minister responding? Further, why did Parliament erroneously pass the question to a ministry that is not responsible for that function, bearing in mind that the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly has the Gazette Notice on statutory functions?

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I heard the Acting hon. Minister of Agriculture state that the question was wrongly directed to the Ministry of Agriculture. Maybe, what we can do is ask the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly to redirect the question to the appropriate ministry.

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Madam Speaker: Otherwise, we will ask questions without getting the answers. So, the question is redirected to the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you kindly.

Madam Speaker, at your discretion, I cite Standing Order No. 133.

Madam Speaker, without challenging your earlier ruling, procedurally, where there is a matter that concerns life and death, you have been ruling that the Executive provides answers. However, in your ruling on the matter about a robbery that took place yesterday, which resulted in a death, you ruled that the matter, which was raised by the hon. Member for Kapoche, was not of urgent public importance. However, it is only right that a death that occurred less than twenty-four hours ago is given the attention it deserves, at your discretion, of course.

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, the Presiding Officer has already made a ruling on the matter. Further, the hon. Member for Kapoche has other options for raising that issue, not necessarily under Standing Order No. 134. So, the door is not closed; there are many other options available.

______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON PARASTATAL BODIES

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2019, for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 31^st March, 2022.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, pursuant to its terms of reference, as set out under Standing Order No. 197(l), your Committee considered the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and Other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2019, and is honoured to present the report on its work to the House.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that nineteen entities were cited in the Report of the Auditor-General that was considered by your Committee. The entities cited in the audit are spread over many economic and social sub-sectors, including public universities, parastatal bodies, financial institutions and regulatory institutions that work under the supervision of different sector ministries and the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC).

Madam Speaker, State-owned enterprises (SOEs) are legal entities through which the Government takes part in activities of a commercial nature. Therefore, ensuring that these entities create value for society and are managed proficiently is the cornerstone of sound public governance and a precondition for creating trust in the Government and markets. Furthermore, in an endeavour to maximise the generation of future wealth, and achieve its developmental and social objectives, the Government ought to put emphasis on strengthening accountability systems that enhance prudent resource management and governance.

Madam Speaker, the Report of the Auditor-General highlighted a number of accounting irregularities. On the premise that the hon. Members of the House have had an opportunity to peruse the report, allow me to merely highlight some of the salient points contained therein.

Madam Speaker, the Committee notes, with concern, that the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) continues to record poor financial performance, as evidenced by the numerous queries on it in the Reports of the Auditor General for the Financial Years Ended 31^st December, 2017, and 31^st December, 2019, respectively. Your Committee observes that there was a collapse of control systems, coupled with poor board supervision, and a lack of consistent oversight by both the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, during the period under review. Your Committee further perceives some collusion in the disbursement of funds. A case in point is the DBZ’s disbursement of US$2.6 million to a supplier of equipment in China for a milling plant on behalf of the Zambia Co-operative Federation (ZCF), which funds may never be recovered. The situation arose because the DBZ failed to disburse the entire loan amount to the supplier and, subsequently, requested a refund that, unfortunately, the supplier refused to grant. In light of the foregoing, the Committee recommends that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning be proactive in ensuring that the DBZ is audited annually by the Auditor-General as opposed to being subjected to a wholesale audit that is usually undertaken at three-year intervals. Your Committee further recommends that the Executive ensures that all those who acquired funds from the DBZ pay back, failure to which the matters should be reported to the relevant Government investigative wings for further action.

Madam Speaker, let me now briefly comment on the operations of the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) and the Public Service Pensions Fund (PSPF).

Madam Speaker, as you may already be aware, Chapter 256 of the National Pension Scheme Act, No. 40 of 1996, as read with Act No. 9 of 2000, brought into existence the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). Your Committee learnt that the establishment of NAPSA has led to dwindling contributions to the older pension schemes, LASF and PSPF, which are not permitted to register new members. Your Committee observes that the two pension schemes have been unable to pay out retirement benefits, as their inadequate dependency ratio has continued to further plummet. In view of the foregoing, your Committee strongly urges the Government to ensure that pension reforms are expeditiously implemented.

Madam Speaker, the other issue that caught your Committee’s attention is a lack of adequate corporate governance systems and capacity in most parastatals and other statutory institutions. While appreciating the Acts of Parliament that prescribe the appointment of Boards of Directors, your Committee is of the view that the Acts have become a hindrance to the appointment of persons with the requisite skills and competences to the respective boards of SOEs. In light of the above, your Committee strongly recommends that the laws be amended so that capacity, competence and relevant skills are factored into appointments to boards, as opposed to the appointing authorities relying only on recommendations of associations and groupings prescribed by the establishing Acts. Further, your Committee recommends that the process of constituting boards be made open so that people can apply, and that the vetting of board appointments include mechanisms for tracking appointees’ performance record in other parastatals and statutory institutions in which they may have previously served.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I put on record the members of your Committee’s debt and gratitude to you for according them the opportunity to serve on this important Committee. I also thank all the stakeholders who made both written and oral submissions to your Committee. Further, I recognise the roles played by the Office of the Auditor-General, the Controller of Internal Audit and the Accountant-General in the proceedings, without which the deliberations of your Committee would not have been successfully concluded. Additionally, I place on record the gratitude of your Committee for your invaluable guidance throughout the deliberations. Finally, I am grateful to the Clerk of the National Assembly and his staff for their professionalism and support to your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, in supporting the report on parastatal bodies presented by the chairperson of your Committee, I would like to mention just three issues that the chairperson has not spoken about. I will begin by talking about the failure by parastatal bodies and most statutory institutions in Zambia to take the audit process seriously.

Madam Speaker, there is a growing tendency among parastatal bodies and other entities to ignore the provisions of the Public Finance Management Act, No. 1 of 2018, which requires parastatal bodies and other entities to provide information and documentation to auditors on request. In most cases, the information and documents like payment vouchers are not provided. So, your Committee recommends that such entities be prosecuted in accordance with what is provided for in the Public Finance Management Act, No. 1 of 2018.

Madam Speaker, another issue that I want to talk about is poor management of contracts.

Madam Speaker, the parastatal bodies and other statutory institutions in this country have continued to ignore the provisions of the law, and that contributes to delays in the execution of projects. Further, when projects are delayed, their costs increase.

Madam Speaker, another issue that I want to talk about is of cases taking too long.

Madam Speaker, there have been instances in which various Committees of this House have recommended the prosecution of people who do not follow the Public Procurement Act, No. 8 of 2020. The Committee recommends that the investigative wings ensure that such cases are dealt with in the shortest possible time so that Government monies can be saved.

Madam Speaker, with those few comments, I second the Motion.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the adoption of the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and Other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2019.

Madam Speaker, let me begin by appreciation the mover of this Motion, my colleague, Hon. Brain Kambita, Member of Parliament for Zambezi East, and the seconder, Hon. Anthony Kasandwe, Member of Parliament for Bangweulu.

Madam Speaker, this report is about the Auditor-General’s findings in the audit of parastatal bodies and other statutory institutions. In supporting the proposed adoption of this report, I would like to say that all parastatals and statutory institutions fall under ministries. Therefore, our colleagues, the hon. Minsters, have the huge responsibility of making sure that the corporations transact their business in accordance with the provisions of the law. In fact, some parastatal bodies fall directly under the President, as all bodies under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) are directly under the watch of the President. Therefore, hon. Ministers and the President have the huge responsibility of ensuring that each parastatal body transacts its business in line with the provided-for legal environment.

Madam Speaker, when you hear expressions like “collapse of internal control systems” and “collusion” used, it is an indication that the investigative wings must quickly pounce on those who have caused the collapse of internal controls. Who is colluding to take advantage of public resources? When the investigative wings begin to focus on such matters, even the political environment is going to be sanitised because, as it is now, the focus is on political players, who do not serve in the parastatals. The hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development can be in trouble over an act at the Road Development Agency (RDA). This is how people have been misinformed. The problem might be with the RDA, but people will be calling out the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development. I, therefore, tender the advice that now is the time for the investigative wings to start focusing on where the problems are. Your Committee has categorically stated that there is collusion at the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ), not at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Therefore, people should leave the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning alone and go to the DBZ where the problem is.

The other issue I want to comment on, Madam Speaker, is that raised on the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) as well as the Public Service Pensions Fund (PSPF). These institutions have been killed by the establishment of the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). So, instead of politicking around and talking about people making partial withdrawals of their contributions, our Executive should start talking about saving these institutions or integrating them into the existing machinery so that the people under them can have hope of being integrated into the perpetual machinery. The problem we have is politics. For now, I have stopped politicking here because I want to talk about things that will help the people of Zambia. I think that if we integrated these systems and promulgated policies that speak to the needs of the people, we would be helping the country.

Madam Speaker, proper management of contracts, as pointed out by my colleague, is important, and the only authority to ensure it is the hon. Minister responsible for parastatals and the President, who is responsible for the IDC and, consequently, all the parastatals that fall under the IDC.

Madam Speaker, I support your Committee’s report.                                          

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity given to the people of Mufulira to contribute to the debate on this Motion. Let me also thank the mover of the Motion, the seconder and, indeed, the entire Committee.

Madam Speaker, I want to contribute to the debate on this Motion by agreeing with, and making observations on, the report, which I had an opportunity to go through. I will start with the findings that concern the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ).

Madam Speaker, I think, as the previous speaker has said, the problem we have with the DBZ has more to do with the competence of the management of that institution, and there are examples in this report. Firstly, the DBZ had struggled to get a US$50 million credit line from the African Development Bank (AfDB). I am sure, that is because AfDB was not comfortable with the DBZ’s balance sheet or the security of the proposed credit line, and I thought that the DBZ management would learn something from AfDB’s non-approval of the credit line; it is because AfDB went through the approval process and found that it was safe to not advance the loan. Instead, what we see is the DBZ giving out loans to local promoters and companies, and failing to recover the money. Instead of applying the same due diligence that AfDB applied, we saw the DBZ, for example, give US$2 million to CETZAM Financial Services, a company that went into liquidation soon afterwards, and that US$2 million is yet to be recovered. That, to me, points to incompetence on the part of the management. I note the changes that were made at board level, but I am not sure whether there were changes at the management level to ensure that competent people were put in place to save that institution from going down. The institution is clearly struggling because it does not have liquidity and the companies it has lent money to are struggling to pay back. I think, a restructuring of the management is the way to go in restoring the viability of that entity.

Madam Speaker, let me also comment on the findings concerning the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and focus on the institution’s debt stock, as presented in the report.

Madam Speaker, it is very clear in the report that the bulk of the debt stock on NAPSA’s books arises from the 20 per cent penalty that is charged on outstanding contributions, and many employers have complained about how punitive the penalty is. So, as long as the issue of the penalty is not addressed, NAPSA will continue to see a rise in the debt stock. If an employer is struggling to remit deductions for employees, how is he going to find the 20 per cent on top of the principal amount? Further, the institutions that owe NAPSA are mainly those linked to the Government, and the fact is that the institutions do not choose to not remit deductions; they wait to be funded by the Government so that they can have the liquidity to pay NAPSA. When the Government has not sent to those institutions grants or whatever kind of funding, the institutions have no money to remit to NAPSA. So, the solution is that when it is very clear that an institution does not have money because the Government has not funded it, NAPSA should not be so rigid and charge it the 20 per cent penalty. The bottom line is that the National Pension Scheme Act should be amended, and the 20 per cent reviewed and made less punitive to allow employers to breathe. NAPSA should stick to recovering the principal amounts. 

Madam Speaker, let me also briefly comment on the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF). I have seen the submissions in this report advising that new members be allowed. However, we have seen that the institution has an actuarial deficit and is struggling to pay those who have retired. So, it would be very difficult for it to attract new members without recapitalisation or funding.

Madam Speaker, another thing I have seen in this report is that in trying to recover the money that the local authorities owe, LASF has been getting into some agreements with them referred to as “land-debt swap” in this report. In the agreement, a local authority that owes LASF gives the latter a piece of land. In my view, that does not sort out LASF’s problem because what LASF needs is liquidity. If a local authority gives LASF a piece of land, what will that piece of land do to LASF’s liquidity? I think, the people in the Executive who supervise the agreements or go through them need to realise that policy does not help LASF because LASF remains in the same position of not having money until it finds someone to buy the piece of land. Clearly, that is not the way to go for an organisation that is in dire need of cash to honour its obligations to retirees.

Madam Speaker, with those comments, I support this report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the report on parastatal bodies. From the outset, I want to state that I support this report. I also take this opportunity to thank my colleague, Hon. Kambita, the mover of this Motion, and the seconder.

Madam Speaker, a general overview of the performance of parastatal organisations in this country clearly indicates that most challenges arise from poor management. So, as long as we do not appoint people to state-owned enterprises (SOEs) on merit, problems will continue to be highlighted in reports from the Office of the Auditor-General year in and year out. That is why I agree with your Committee’s position that appointments to the boards must be purely on merit and, I think, that must apply to the managements as well. I rarely see advertisements for recruitment of Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) and Directors for parastatals. For example, I have not seen any advertisement from Zamtel or Zesco Limited, but I hear that CEOs have been appointed, and one wonders whether those employed are the best people available to run those SOEs. I think, we must move away from the United National Independence Party (UNIP) One-Party State syndrome of the President appointing everyone. If SOEs are to run purely as business entities, we must allow Zambians to compete for positions in them. Then, we are going to find the best brains to run them.

Madam Speaker, let me quickly talk about Indeni Petroleum Oil Refinery. The company plays a critical role in the petroleum sub-sector of this country, but its performance has been marred by a number of challenges.

Madam Speaker, we struggle with inadequate road infrastructure in this country because putting up a tarred road has become extremely expensive, yet we have Indeni, which is able to produce bitumen, and a bitumen plant was commissioned in 2014, and it produced 359 metric tonnes in 2015 and 1,600 metric tonnes in 2017. However, the continuous running of the company has been hampered by a lack of feed stock. I think, it is important that the Ministry of Energy doubles its efforts in procuring the necessary feed stock so that Indeni is able to produce bitumen for use in our road sector. I am alive to the fact that huge sums of money were invested in the establishment of the bitumen plant at Indeni, but the plant is almost a white elephant, and this is a source of grave concern. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Energy to ensure that the country is able to produce bitumen as soon as possible so that road construction is made cheaper.

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about Zesco Limited, a state enterprise that plays a key role in the electricity sub-sector.

Madam Speaker, your Committee states that the cost of running Zesco Limited is high, and suggests that the company reduces costs. The Committee also talks about electricity tariffs being uneconomical, despite Zesco Limited having raised the tariffs several times. For example, in January, this year, the tariffs were increased by 113 per cent, but we are still talking about increasing them. So, I do not think that the challenges facing Zesco Limited today lie in low electricity tariffs. If you look at what is happening today, you will see that there is a backlog of applications for connections on which payments were already made. Further, people are being retired in the national interest almost on a weekly basis, and it is very costly to retire someone at Zesco Limited. I was in the union there. So, I know the cost of retiring one employee. Where is the company getting the money for paying the retirement benefits of people who are being retired when, at the same time, there is talk of a lack of resources to connect customers? It is important that the Board at Zesco Limited and the Ministry of Energy look at ways in which Zesco Limited can reduce its costs. I do not think that this is the time to retire so many people and pay huge separation packages at the expense of service delivery.

Madam Speaker, we also note that when there was an electricity deficit, Zesco Limited was buying power from independent power producers at a higher tariff and selling it at a lower tariff. Further, most of our hydro-power stations are situated in the Southern Province, which is drought-prone. Why do we not invest more resources in the Northern Circuit, where there is abundant rainfall? If we did that, I am sure, we would address the electricity deficit in Zambia, which is strategically positioned, as 40 per cent of water bodies are here. Actually, I think that if the electricity sub-sector is fully exploited, electricity will become the main foreign exchange (FOREX) earner.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I think, it is important that we promote private investment, as it is critical. We have the Batoka Gorge, where the private sector can come in and invest instead of focusing efforts on trying to take over Zesco Limited. Zambia has other sites with potential for power generation. If the private investors invested their money there, they would get good returns on their investment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I do not see any ladies indicating, and there are very few ladies here. Please, ensure that all the ladies sit in the House next time because we want to hear their voices, too.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, welcome back to Zambia and to the House. I thank you for this opportunity to speak on behalf of the people Mbabala Constituency and, indeed, on my own behalf. I also thank the Committee on Parastatal Bodies; the mover of the Motion, Hon. Kambita; and his colleague from Bangweulu. I am glad that the report dealt with the subject ably and dug deep into the issues at hand insofar as its terms of reference were concerned.

Madam Speaker, the essence of parastatal bodies is to provide benefits to all of us in the country. Parastatal bodies are expected to make a profit for the State and produce public goods by ensuring that my people in Kabanze area of Mbabala, for example, who need a bridge, can have it simply by doing good business and remitting good income to the State. Parastatal bodies are also supposed to help my people in Lugwalo to repair a school there, and those in Kalindi to put up a dip tank in their area so that their animals can enjoy quality life and we can increase our beef production in Mbabala Constituency. That can only happen if workers in parastatal bodies do their job diligently and with integrity.

Madam Speaker, we have seen in this report that the parastatal bodies that were audited mostly lacked integrity; they did not perform according to plans. Instead, we see collusion, mismanagement as well as failure to retire imprest. In some instances, companies that were given some money to set up failed to develop; they could not grow because there was misuse of the funds that were put into them for them to grow, and examples are many in this report. That shows that we did not use the tools of good governance.

Madam Speaker, the tools of good governance here, in Zambia, as outlined, include the Institute of Directors, of which I and many of my hon. Colleagues here may have been members. The institute trains us on the King Code and many other ways that help Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) and the people in parastatal bodies to perform. However, what we have seen is total failure, which calls for stringent management under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC). It is not surprising that things are like this when in the previous regime, CEOs had to be recruited on political lines.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: It was clear in the manifesto of our colleagues that for one to be appointed CEO, one had to be a member of their party. As a result of that, incompetent people; people who had no qualification and did not understand any good governance, were employed to run parastatals. Since party membership was the key, those recruited stood on that, not on competence, qualifications, experience and a demonstrated ability to earn profits for the companies, and the result is the disaster we have seen. Therefore, the report is supposed to have recommended continued action in terms of prosecution and investigation of those who failed to run the affairs of this country.

Madam Speaker, never again should failed characters be appointed to leadership positions in parastatals because they have cost the people of Mbabala Constituency the money that would have gone towards the construction of bridges. Further, if we ban such people, we will introduce meritocracy. The IDC is managed and supervised by the President of the Republic, and the President has hon. Ministers and other people whose eyes must look at whether only people who have a demonstrated capacity to deliver profit to the country find themselves on the boards or as CEOs of the companies. That way, we are going to promote meritocracy, which is going to bring results. That is what the Asian Tigers did; they set up companies and ensured that the companies performed according to set performance indicators. There must be performance indicators.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, you cannot have a company –

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Kawambwa.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I refer to Standing Order No. 65, which provides that the content of debate should be relevant to the topic on the Floor of the House.

Interruptions

Mr Chilangwa: May I proceed, Madam Speaker?

Madam Speaker: Yes.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, the report is very clear and specific. If people do not read these reports, they should not stand up and try to debate; they must be relevant. By talking about things that are outside this report, people are showing their irrelevance to the people listening out there, and Zambians are not playing. Zambians are watching the Parliamentary Debates in their entirety. So, those who stand up and become irrelevant, like the current debater, must actually not be allowed to proceed.

Is the hon. Member in order, Madam Speaker, to show his irrelevance in this fashion?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member.

You have debated your point of order. However, by way of guidance, let us remain relevant to the issues that have been raised in the report instead of raising political issues that are going to just derail the debate.

Hon. Member for Mbabala, continue as guided.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, before I was disturbed, I was talking about the performance of various boards and our need for quality boards that are going to perform based on the competences of the people who are appointed to them. Such boards need people who have demonstrated experience, like I mentioned, and who have demonstrated that they can make profit because our interest, like I said in my preamble, to fix the bridges in my constituency. The boards must make the money for us; they must be declaring profits every year. If we are going to have irrelevant and incompetent boards, and politicians like the one who raised the point of order on me running the boards –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, such characters should never find themselves on the boards. Politicians who have no competence to run the companies must never find themselves on the boards. I am saying this because in the past, it was clearly spelt out in the constitution of the Ruling Party then. That is a fact, and there is evidence to that effect.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I have already given guidance on how you are supposed to debate. Let us remain relevant to the report. If that point is raised anywhere in the report, you can refer us to the page number so that we speak the same language. We do not want the debates to derail into a political fight. So, if that issue is not in the report, please, desist from referring to it.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, we have definitely read the report. If the hon. Member has not, he needs to find time to do so. He can even go further and research, because research is free.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

It is okay. He has concluded.

Mrs Sabao (Chikankata): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Chikankata an opportunity to add their voice to the debate on the important report on the Floor of the House. In support of the report, I commend your Committee for coming up with it. I will focus my debate on page 73, which addresses the “lack of strategic planning under the research institute”.

Madam Speaker, strategic planning is very critical in an organisation. However, according to this report, there are institutions that either had no strategic plans or had outdated ones. This means that they had no targets, and that made people in those organisations to not know what to do, and there were no targets to motivate the workers. That also gives us the idea that during the past regime, there were people who used institutions as personal cash cows.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sabao: That came from the strategy the political party had. The party used an outdated rigging strategy, while we, the United Party for National Development (UPND), had a twenty-three-year winning strategy. We won the election last year, and we will use the same strategy to make sure that institutions have strategic plans in place.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chikankata!

Let us stick to the report and not bring in issues that are going to raise controversy by attracting reactions from the other side. Stick to what is in the report.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, if an organisation has a strategic plan, meaning that it has an annual plan it will concentrate on, it will have a target it will work towards achieving. However, if you look at this report, you will see that most of the organisations featured did not have strategic plans or had outdated ones, and there is no way an organisation can make a profit without targets.

Madam Speaker, in this country, parastatal companies are for-profit organisations, meaning that they are the main sources of income. As we all may know, trade is the engine of development; where there is no trade, one does not expect the country to develop. So, the main reason this country lagged behind was the poor management of parastatal companies. Like the previous speaker said, the previous Government was appointing cadres who did not have knowledge of management of institutions as board members. Similarly, when the then Government was appointing people to serve in management positions of parastatals, it was recruiting those who did not have the relevant qualifications.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, an institution like Zesco Limited –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chilubi, I have guided the hon. Member who is debating and, I think, she has taken note of the concern, which is the concern I assume you want to raise.

Hon. Member for Chikankata, please, proceed as previously guided.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, like I said, the previous Government appointed cadres as board members, yet board members are the main drivers of an organisation.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us allow the hon. Member for Chikankata to debate as guided. Let us avoid politicising the debate and stick to the relevant issues in the report. The point about the appointment of people who were not qualified is noted.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, we can only improve if we learn from the past. Therefore, as we, the UPND Government, appoint board members, let us appoint people who are qualified so that they also employ qualified people to manage parastatal institutions.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, Zambians are lucky because under the UPND Government, our strategy is to employ qualified people, and this means that our institutions will be managed in the right way and the institutions will make profits for Zambians and, in the end, Zambia will be a good country for all Zambians, unlike what we saw in the past.

Mr Fube interjected.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, our strategy in the New Dawn Government, through the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), is to make sure that all organisations have strategic plans and annual plans in place. This means that the institutions will be monitored by the IDC so that they do the right things. Further, when monitored by the IDC, organisations will work hard to reach the target they will be given for a particular year, and Zambians will be happy.

Madam Speaker, under the New Dawn Government, we have a President who understands business. In this country, we need to make profits, and our President believes that for a country to be rich, it needs to make profits, which entails that it has to plan in such a way that whatever it does generates profit, and that profit goes back to poor people. This is the reason we even provide free education currently. If a country does not make profits, how does it provide free education? A country can only provide free education if it has enough resources in its reserves.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: From what I see, we are almost winding up the debate. So, I will call on the hon. Minister for Western Province to debate.

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mbangweta): Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kambita and his hon. Colleagues for this good report they have presented, which I support because it is factual.

Madam Speaker, even though some hon. Colleagues have the propensity to stop us from talking about the past, I think, it is important that we do so, so that we appreciate where we are coming from.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbangweta: Madam Speaker, this report has eleven observations and recommendations, two of which reflect the difficult past we are coming from while the first is on the lawlessness that was being promoted by the Government, as a result of which even the parastatal companies –

Mr Kampyongo: On a serious procedural point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, this Meeting is for adoption of reports and, when reports are tabled, the only competent hon. Members of the Frontbench to respond are those whose portfolio functions are related to the issues raised. For example, there is a report on the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF), and we need the hon. Ministers of Local Government and Rural Development, Labour and Social Security, and Finance and National Planning to respond to the issues raised in this report. This debate is not meant for politicking. So, is the hon. Minister for a province competent to stand on behalf of the Government and start responding to a report in the manner he is proceeding? This is your report, and it is specific –

Hon. Government Members: It is a Parliament report.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Member in order to short-circuit the Frontbench, which –

Hon. Government Members: Which Standing Order?

Mr Kampyongo: We are teaching you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can we have some order.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, our hon. Colleagues should know that they are in Government now.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

Please, resume your seat and let me give guidance.

The hon. Minister for Western Province is not winding up; he is debating just like any other hon. Member of the House. I believe, hon. Ministers, regardless of which ministries they head, can also debate reports, and that is why I gave him the Floor. I enquired on which hon. Ministers are going to wind up debate on behalf of the Government, and he is not one of them. So, he is just debating.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Madam Speaker: Yes, but he can also debate. Allow him to proceed.

Mr Mbangweta: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I was saying that the parastatal companies in this report were not meeting statutory obligations, and your Committee has said that was a bad practice that should not be encouraged, which is right. Previously, there were difficulties in paying retirees because they were not contributing at the time they were working, and this is what your Committee –

Mr Chitotela: On a point if order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mbangweta paused.

Madam Speaker: I have not recognised the hon. Member for Pambashe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister for Western Province, proceed.

Mr Mbangweta: Madam Speaker, in Row No. 2, the Committee is talking about the need to appoint qualified board members. The need for qualifications is ably explained by the fact that the members of some boards allowed parastatals, some of which are very strategic, to run without strategic plans and audited statements of accounts for three years. If they understood their mandate, how did they allow parastatals they were supervising to run for three years without financial reports? Who was stopping them? There was even reference to the fact that some of the parastatals, through the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), are chaired by the President. What that means is that we should be told what happened during that period. At least, the current Committee has appropriately indicated the route we should avoid if parastatals are to produce public goods.

Madam Speaker, the IDC was formed to ensure that the parastatals under its supervision made profits, not losses. If one is managing a company for three years and one does not know how it is performing, then, what is one managing? This is the reason we should not go back to that kind of approach. The approach we should take is that of knowing what we are managing, and we can do that if we are educated and have the necessary experience. This is what your Committee is recommending; that if one appoints somebody to a board, the appointee must have a track record. That, not ignorance, is what this country needs.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Let me also thank the colleagues who presented this report, the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East, and the one who seconded, Hon. Kasandwe.

Madam Speaker, parliamentary committees are the heart and soul of any parliament, and it is through them that we fully follow the doctrine of the separation of powers by keeping each other accountable for the things that we do on behalf of the people who elected us.

Madam Speaker, this report is very discouraging and extremely negative; there is nothing to be proud about this report that my colleagues have presented this afternoon. The report is a mirror image of how the business and economic environment has been since 2019, or should I say 2017, because it is a reflection of the Auditor-General’s findings for that period. As we debate this Motion, we must understand that we are locked into the 2017 to 2019 period.

Madam Speaker, what is prominent in this report about Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) and the quasi-governmental organisations that we learn about is that there has been constant citing of financial accounting irregularities that include missing payment vouchers, unreimbursed funds, uncompetitive procurement, undelivered items, failure to procure plans, failure to submit annual reports and financial statements, and failure to avail contracts, which are all completely negative. Unretired accountable imprest is also negative, and that is what is contained in your Committee’s report. So, as we debate this Motion, I think, we must look into the future to see how we can remedy the ills together, as this is not the time to try to outdo one another based on which political divide we are on. The fact of the matter is that the period under scrutiny – I shudder to imagine what will come in the report for 2020, a year that immediately preceded an election year. This can only be equated to looting. So, how can there be an attraction of foreign direct investment (FDI) with such reports? How can people bring money into an economy with such a report? It is true, and I mince no words of mine, that when you look at the glossaries of the beneficiaries –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: When you look at the beneficiaries of these facilities, Madam Speaker –

Mr Kampyongo: Serious procedural point of order.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, this is a serious procedural point of order.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister responsible for Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development is supposed to address specific issues in this report relating to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF), which falls under one of his portfolio functions. When responding, he is supposed to –

Mr Mufalali: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, am I protected?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can we observe some order. Let us allow the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu to make his point.

Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, our colleagues should take Parliamentary business seriously. The hon. Minister is not even supposed to respond with copious notes; his response, the Government policy on this report, must go on the record. How is he going to address the issues raised in this report? That is how we respond to reports.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to respond to the report, which is very clear and specific – He knows the issues related to his ministry.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the hon. Minister has the right to respond, and he is speaking on behalf of the Government. There are also some parastatals under his ministry.

Hon. Members, we should avoid disrupting debates by raising points of order and debating through them. If you indicate that you want to debate, you will be recognised and you will make your point. However, when the other side is responding, please, let us allow it to do so. That is the nature of the debate: points are raised, there are responses from the other side and we conclude. So, the hon. Minister may proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, one of the most difficult things to do is detract my attention, because my focus is on point. We run one Cabinet and, therefore, one Government and one country. So, the issues that affect the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF), the Public Service Pension Fund (PSPF) and Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) affect the Government and the whole country.

Madam Speaker, allow me to just say that this is the time for the deepest reflection on how we can do things better, going forward. I was about to say that the glossary of clients, say, for the DBZ tells you a story; they have a flavour of political superstardom, and that tells you the story that even in terms of due diligence in arriving at who qualified to get a facility, there was some political consideration. That is the fact of the matter.

Madam Speaker, I heard Hon. Mtayachalo talk about advertising jobs in big utilities that are Government-run, such as Zesco Limited. He said we must advertise those positions in the newspapers. Come on! What is good for the goose is good for the gander. We look for our own competent people in order to outdo – and very soon; sooner than later, you will observe that those entities will start functioning in a businesslike manner.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mark my words, because we are bringing LASF back on board, which was –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I will terminate my debate by attending to the issue of LASF.

Madam Speaker, it is a fact that some time in the past, the country made a bad decision that saw the birth of the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and the demise of the Zambia National Provident Fund (ZNPF) and, as a result of that, the contributions to LASF became scanty and, in certain cases, just stopped. In the period that we are dealing with, we did not see much go on in LASF; the fund was a shell. Therefore, it is our determination, as the New Dawn Government, to revitalise the fund, and we have already put mechanisms in place to make it start firing on all cylinders. That is an undertaking we, as a Government, have made.

With those few remarks, Madam Speaker, let me thank you most profusely for allowing me to debate this report. I also thank the mover and the seconder once again.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) (on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I commend the Committee on Parastatal Bodies for the detailed report that has been presented before this House.

Madam Speaker, the report has brought out important issues affecting the management and operations of parastatal bodies. Some of the challenges and recommendations highlighted in the report are as discussed below.

Failure to Pay Statutory Obligations and Abrogation of the Law by Agreeing to Separate Times-to-Pay

Madam Speaker, the Committee strongly condemns this and urges the Secretary to the Treasury to ensure that the provisions of the law are adhered to. The Committee may wish to note that the matter raised is of great concern to the Treasury and that interventions are being made to resolve the anomaly. The failure by most parastatal bodies and grant-aided institutions to meet fully statutory obligations, such as pension and tax obligations, is largely attributed to the large wage bill, which has proved to be unsustainable. In the recent past, it was not uncommon for most boards of directors to effect wage adjustments that could not be managed by institutions. The Treasury is working to ensure that wage adjustments are made within sustainable levels. The Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) is also playing an oversight role in the management of parastatals. Further, an initiative was made to give institutions a less onerous way of paying their tax obligations through Time-to-Pay Agreements with the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). This is in line with the provisions of the respective principal Tax Acts that give power to the Commissioner-General to enter into such agreements with taxpayers.

Underfunding of Infrastructure Development Negatively Affecting Student Enrolment at Mulungushi University

Madam Speaker, it is recommended that the Government sufficiently funds infrastructure projects to avoid negative impacts on the growth of the university. The Committee may wish to note that the Treasury allocates funding to ministries, provinces and spending agencies (MPSAs). The institutions then have the responsibility to allocate resources within their funding ceilings towards respective programmes and projects. Your Committee may also wish to note that the recent underfunding by the Treasury was due to several factors, such as the country’s debt position and the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.

Madam Speaker, the Treasury is working tirelessly to improve the nation’s macroeconomic stability and debt sustainability to create the necessary fiscal space and, thereby, improve the availability of resources and ensure that the education sector, among others, is adequately funded.

Accumulation of Non-Performing Loans by Financial Institutions

Madam Speaker, the third issue is the accumulation of non-performing loans by financial institutions, such as the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ). In this regard, the Government will implore the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) to take a more proactive approach to supervising the players in the financial sector, and to ensure that the Basel Laws are enforced to the letter.

Madam Speaker, according to http://www.fitchsolutions.com/, the final Basel III Framework will introduce –

Mr Kasandwe interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bangweulu!

Please, desist from that conduct because it is not acceptable.

May the hon. Minister proceed.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the final Basel III Framework will introduce a more granular approach to credit risk assessment. By 2023, banks will need to follow the new Standardised Credit Risk Assessment (SCRA) in calculating risk weights for unrated bank exposures. Accessing the correct data, and developing the necessary internal expertise and infrastructure will be crucial for compliance purposes, as it will enable banks to benefit from reduced capital charges and an enhanced view of credit-worthiness.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has continued to collaborate with BoZ, the DBZ and the National Savings and Credit Bank (NATSAVE) with the hope of restoring normal operations and ensuring that institutions are profitable again. Further, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is working with BoZ to ensure that all financial institutions under its portfolio adhere to these standards, thereby reducing the levels of non-performing loans.

Laissez-Faire Attitude towards the Audit Process, Continued Flouting of Public Financial Regulations and Poor Performance of Parastatals

Madam Speaker, the Committee strongly urges the Secretary to the Treasury to ensure that punitive measures are taken against officers found wanting.

Madam Speaker, the Public Finance Management Act, No. 1 of 2018, has sufficient provisions for dealing with officeholders who fail to provide adequate information to the Auditor-General under Section 82(1)(k) and Section 107. I quote:

“82. (1) A person commits an offence if that person wilfully and without lawful authority—

“(k)      fails to provide any information that the Auditor-General, Accountant-General, Controller of Internal Audit or a person authorised by the Auditor-General, Accountant General or Controller of Internal Audit may reasonably require under this Act”.

Section 107 provides as follows:

“A person who commits an offence under this Act for which a penalty is not specified is liable, on conviction, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand penalty points or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years, or to both.”

Madam Speaker, the Treasury will engage the Auditor-General to report any officer who fails to provide information during the audit process so that appropriate action is taken.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, my ministry takes note of the recommendations in the report, and I would like to indicate that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is committed to resolving the challenges affecting parastatal bodies and to ensuring that the parastatals return a profit to the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I thank you sincerely for giving me the opportunity to wind up debate. I also thank all the hon. Members of the Backbench who debated the Motion, and I take cognisance of the fact that most of them highlighted the challenges that parastatals face in terms of corporate governance and political influence. I also recognise the submissions that have come from the Executive, in particular, the submission by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development regarding the issue of LASF. I am elated by the fact that there is some work that has been done already and that the fund is now going to be revamped. However, we, as a Committee, submit that the Executive must take interest in overhauling the entire pension system in the country. I am also aware that reforms were initiated some time back and that pieces need to be picked up and put together to ensure that there is sanity in the pension schemes.

Madam Speaker, I am also glad about the submission by the hon. Minster of Science and Technology on behalf of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning citing various statutes that guide auditors in auditing the accounts of public institutions like parastatal bodies. In particular, I am glad that the hon. Minister cited the Public Finance Management Act, which gives clear guidance on how institutions’ finances are supposed to be managed. However, I implore the hon. Minister to take keen interest in the control environment in parastatal institutions. There is control by internal audits in Government institutions, especially the ministries, but there does not seem to be similar structures in parastatal bodies, thereby exposing the institutions to internal control challenges. That has culminated in a situation in which parastatal bodies have either not prepared audited financial statements or have been cited for several financial flaws by the Auditor-General.

Madam Speaker, one other aspect that came up in the submission of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is that to do with the Government helping out in terms of payments of statutory obligations to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). I submit to the hon. Minister that the practice is, actually, an organised anomaly because, somehow, there is denial of the working capital that the institutions in question require. Debt swap arrangements and the like negatively affect the institutions. If a parastatal is supposed to get some funding from the Government, it should receive the funding from the Treasury according to plans and the Budget. When that does not happen the way it is supposed to, parastatals and many Government institutions end up suffering, meeting net payments and remaining with outstanding amounts insofar as statutory obligations are concerned, thereby remaining in a vicious cycle. So, the Government must fund the institutions as budgeted so that the institutions are able to meet their obligations as and when they are supposed to.

Madam Speaker, I thank everyone who participated in supporting the Motion to adopt the report of your Committee on Parastatal Bodies.

With those few remarks, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa conversed with Mr Kafwaya.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Please, if we are consulting, let us do so quietly.

Question put and agreed to.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT ASSURANCES

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 31^st May, 2022.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kambita rose to leave the Chamber.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Zambezi East!

I know that you have finished your business, but we still have some more business to transact. So, just bear with us and resume your seat, please.

Mr Kambita resumed his seat.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, the Committee, in performing its duties, was guided by its terms of reference as set out in the Standing Orders. During this Session, your Committee considered fifteen new assurances and 180 outstanding ones. Your Committee’s observations and recommendations on the various assurances that were probed are documented in its report. I will, therefore, highlight only a few of the assurances as mere samples of the bigger picture of the assurances made on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, generally, your Committee observes, with disappointment, that assurances made on the Floor of the House are not backed by financial provisions and, because of that, most projects have stalled due to financial constraints. As examples, allow me to refer to the assurance made on the Floor of the House on 3^rd March, 2017, by the then hon. Minister of General Education. The hon. Minister made the assurance that the Government had plans to refurbish the laboratory at Mufumbwe Day Secondary School in Mufumbwe District after the laboratory was gutted by fire. He also stated that the plans were expected to be implemented in 2017. However, having undertaken a site visit to Mufumbwe Day Secondary School in April, 2022, your Committee notes, with displeasure, that nothing has been done to date due to financial constraints, and that has negatively affected both teachers and learners, as subjects that are supposed to be learnt in the laboratory are being learnt in ordinary classrooms, thereby compromising the quality of education. Your Committee, therefore, strongly urges the Government to immediately secure funds for the refurbishment of the laboratory so as to not continue disadvantaging the learners.

Madam Speaker, allow me to draw the attention of the House to another assurance your Committee dealt with. On Friday, 22^nd February, 2013, His Honour the Vice-President then made the assurance on the Floor of the House that the construction of Chalimbana, Mukuba and Kwame Nkrumah universities was going on well. He further stated that the universities would open “immediately”. However, during its interactions with stakeholders, your Committee learnt, with disappointment, that progress at Chalimbana and Mukuba stood at 40 per cent and 50 per cent, respectively, while at Chalimbana, it was at 30 per cent, nine years after the assurance was made on the Floor of the House. Your Committee, in April, 2022, undertook an on-the-spot check of the construction of Mukuba University and learnt, with disappointment, that despite being the first science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) university in the country, Mukuba had no adequate laboratories. Your Committee also learnt that the construction of the laboratory and classroom blocks had stalled at 25 per cent due to financial constraints. It further learnt, with sadness, that the school was only able to accommodate 800 out of the 1,500 enrolled students due to limited accommodation arising from stalled works. Your Committee, therefore, strongly urges the Government to immediately secure funds for the completion of Phase II of the project to avoid additional costs, as reinforcement metal bars are being cut by vandals.

Madam Speaker, lastly, allow me to comment on an assurance made by the then hon. Minister of Health on Tuesday, 19^th April, 2016, that the construction of 650 rural health posts was expected to be completed by October, 2016.

Madam Speaker, during its interactions with stakeholders, your Committee learnt that out of the eighty-eight health posts earmarked for construction on the Copperbelt Province under the 650 Health Posts Project, eighty-four were completed in April, 2022. Your Committee undertook an on-the-spot check of some health posts in Kamfinsa Constituency and found that one of them had been completed, but was not operational. Your Committee is also saddened to report that the ceilings of the clinic and staff house are already falling apart due to leaking roofs resulting from poor workmanship. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to ensure that there is close supervision of projects being implemented countrywide, as it was established during the tours that a lack of supervision was the major contributor to poor workmanship. Further, your Committee recommends that District Building Officers be involved in the supervision of projects in their areas.

Madam Speaker, as reported by your Committee, there is a huge number of unfulfilled assurances, a situation your Committee finds unacceptable. The Government does not appear to take assurances made on the Floor of this House seriously, which renders the assurances purely academic. Your Committee insists that the Government makes assurances to the House only when it has capacity to fully implement them, as making assurances that are not implementable is a sign of a total disregard for the House.  In fact, it amounts to misleading the House, and should not be tolerated any further. Further, your Committee recommends that when an assurance cannot be fulfilled on account of change of policy, the Leader of Government Business in the House ensures that the House is notified through an appropriate and timely statement on the Floor by the concerned Minister. This is in order to avert situations in which your Committee continues to pursue the implementation of such assurances.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I, on behalf of all the members of the Committee, thank you most sincerely for having accorded us the opportunity to serve on this Committee. Further, I take this opportunity to thank all the members of the Committee for the commitment they exhibited towards the work of the Committee. I also thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for their unwavering support to your Committee during its deliberations in this Session. Lastly, but not the least, I pay tribute to all the Permanent Secretaries (PSs) and their officers who made both oral and written submissions to your Committee during this Session.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment, can we have your ears.

Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Nkulukusa: Now, Madam Speaker.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to second the Motion moved by the chairperson of the Committee on Government Assurances, the Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe, Hon. Kamondo. Let me also thank the hon. Colleagues who joined us on our tour of duty, members of the Committee, for the commitment they exhibited during that tour.

Madam Speaker, my seconding of this Motion is purely based on the three pillars that anchored this report.

Madam Speaker, Pillar No. 1 is the wastage of Government resources that we witnessed on projects that were either abandoned or implemented up to 50 per cent or 80 per cent, but have not been completed over the years. It was discovered that such wastage took away the few resources that the Government put in the Budget for the country to move forward and reposition itself in its economic agenda. If you calculated the wastage, you would realise that it amounts to over 30 per cent, and it is either because the abandoned buildings have been vandalised or other things have happened, and the infrastructure has to be built all over again.

Madam Speaker, the second pillar of my debate is the opportunity you gave us to go and learn from the Republic of Rwanda how the Government there was implementing information and communication technology (ICT) programmes in primary and secondary education, since the introduction of ICT programmes in primary and secondary education to enhance the competitiveness of the economy by making ICT an enabler of economic development is one of the assurances that the Government of this country made.

Madam Speaker, what we learnt in Rwanda is that the prioritisation of ICT in primary and secondary education finally takes an economy or a country to the level of a knowledge economy, which helps to build the competitiveness of a country, and that steers economic development. As we toured many facilities in Rwanda, we discovered how much ICT was enabling the growth of all sectors of the economy and how it was not taught only as a subject, but also as a programme from all corners of the education framework in order to create the 21^st Century citizen, who is ICT-driven and capable of building an economy using ICT as a platform for competitive advantage. However, what was most interesting for us to learn was how Rwanda had attracted investment in ICT infrastructure into the country. Firstly, it waived all taxes on ICT equipment used in primary and secondary education, and charged a minimal tax on ICT equipment used in tertiary education. That enabled the primary and secondary education system to attract a lot of investment in ICTs for schools and develop the 21^st Century pupil and student. Secondly, it attracted a company that started manufacturing and assembling ICT products, especially laptops, for schools, which enabled it to achieve its objective of ‘one child one laptop’ in each class by 2022.

Madam Speaker, let me move to the last point, which is how Government Assurances are implemented in the Republic of Rwanda. We learnt that when the Government or a Minister made an assurance on the Floor of The House in Rwanda, it was considered serious business and that the Rwandese followed five stages that we thought could be helpful to our country as well if adopted, since ours was a benchmarking trip. If implemented, what we learnt can help to build this economy, which we are calling a knowledge hub economy. The first stage is what they call “Oral Questioning”, in which oral questions are asked on whether the implementation of an assurance was going on well or not. The second stage is what they call “Written Questioning”, after which they move to the third stage, which they call “Committee Hearing” and the fourth stage, which they call “Enquiry of Committee”. What is amazing is the fifth level, the “Vote of No Confidence”, which comes if an assurance is not implemented. We discovered, that mechanism made everybody who made an assurance on the Floor of the House to ensure that it was delivered on.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, we assure this Government that in ICT and in the implementation of assurances, if we all put our efforts together and build the 21^st Century citizen, then, we are going to be competitive against economies that compete with ours, and build a resilient economy.

With these few words, Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to comment on the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances.

Madam Speaker, I support your Committee’s report. As a Member of Parliament from Luapula Province, I took interest in the report and came across an issue that is very interesting and dear to my heart and to the hearts of many people from Luapula, namely the Government assurance on the Frederick Titus Jacob (FTJ) Chiluba and Ntumpa universities in Luapula Province, which is on page 39 of the report.

Madam Speaker, I want to hear from the Government what happened. If you allow me to quote from the report ­­­– after serious interrogation by your Committee, there is a response from the Executive in relation to the construction of FTJ Chiluba University. The Government made the assurance in October, 2019, that it was planned that FTJ Chiluba University and the university to be constructed in Lukashya Constituency, Kasama, was to cost US$225 million. The report reads as follows:

“The previous Committee, in noting the submission, had expressed concern at the slow pace at which the construction of the two universities was going and had urged the Executive to ensure that funds were secured to facilitate the urgent commencement of works to avoid accumulation of standing costs. The Committee had resolved to await a comprehensive progress report on the matter.”

Madam Speaker, what is worrying is that this is a 21^st May, 2022, report. Here is the response from the Executive:

“In its update to the Committee, the Executive submitted that the construction of the Fredrick Titus Jacob Chiluba University in Mansa, Luapula, and Kasama, Northern provinces, had not recorded any significant progress since the last report due to continued fiscal constraints affecting the projects. Austerity measures introduced by the Government in 2018 also affected the projects, as did the policy directive to prioritise projects that were already at 80 per cent and above complete”.

Madam Speaker, I am concerned about the university because we heard in the media that – I hope that as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning responds, he will make a clarion call on these concerns because, to date, your Committee has not received the report on why the purported US$33 million was paid. I may sound speculative, but was it for the design, the feasibility study done by the contractor or was it a mobilisation fee paid to the contractor? If you check the report, you will see that it clearly states that even the structures that the people of Luapula are able to see there are as a result of commitment on the part of the contractor.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Chitotela: Here is a report by the Executive.

Madam Speaker, I want to read the last part, the Committee’s recommendations and observations.

Madam Speaker, your Committee is noting the submission and expressing concern over the tendency of the Executive to make assurances on the Floor of the House when funding is not certain. In this regard, the Committee urges the Executive to ensure that assurances are made on the Floor of the House when funding is certain and that the implementation be promised on the Floor of the House, failure to which the oversight role of Parliament will be rendered ineffective.

Madam Speaker, The Committee resolved to await a comprehensive progress report on the construction of the two universities. As a Member of Parliament from Luapula Province, I am concerned, and I know that many people from Luapula are concerned because, just two or three weeks ago, as I stated earlier, we were awash with statements of money being released. We, the people of Luapula Province, were wondering what we have done to not deserve a university. Here is the Executive’s response. The Executive has deliberately failed to provide the response on why that money was released. Was the money paid to the contractor? We want to know, and the people of Luapula Province want to know.  

Madam Speaker, the Government is a perpetual succession. So, I believe that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, my uncle, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, will be able to give the correct position on this matter so that the people of Zambia and the people of Luapula Province, in particular, will be able to know the truth. This is a serious Government assurance given on the Floor of this House, where we come to make the Executive accountable. The people of the Northern Province know what is happening with Ntumpa University and the people of Luapula Province know what is happening on FTJ Chiluba University. We have noted the response by the hon. Minister of Education, who has given his ministry’s position. However, the funding came from the Executive through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. So, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning must be able to provide more clarity.

Madam Speaker, your Committee was unable to close the matter regarding the two universities because the Executive did not provide a comprehensive response. Therefore, it is difficult for me to support the adoption of this report, although I do so, because the Executive has not answered that question. As one of the fifteen hon. Members of Parliament from the Northern Province and those from Luapula Province, we are concerned, and we want to know, and we assure the Executive that if it is proven that someone did any wrong to the people of Luapula Province, we will stand with it and support it. However, we need clear answers and the truth. What was the US$33 million paid for? Was it for design, consultancy or construction? Why did the Export and Import (EXIM) Bank of China not release its counterpart funding so that the two universities could be constructed? Those are the questions the people of Luapula are asking, and the questions to which the people of the Northern Province want answers.

Madam Speaker, with those lamentations and concerns on the failure by the Executive to provide a comprehensive response to these two matters, I submit.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this report. From the outset, I wish to commend the mover and seconder of the Motion to adopt this well delivered report.

Madam Speaker, it is very clear from the report that there is a number of unfulfilled assurances on account of a number of reasons, including funding and Government policy. I am persuaded by the argument that was advanced by the seconder of this Motion to the effect that we could learn from our friends in Rwanda when it comes to Government assurances because, otherwise, our work becomes an academic exercise in which, year in and year out, there is a Government assurance on the Floor of the House and we keep on reading these reports. It will be like a circus. I think that other measures must also be taken to ensure that once there is a Government assurance on the Floor of the House, everybody works towards ensuring that it is implemented.

Madam Speaker, I also note, in agreement with my colleague from Pambashe, that in some cases, the information that was provided is very scanty. As a nation, we were all alarmed by the issue of the two universities, FTJ Chiluba and Ntumpa, for which colossal sums of money were said to have been paid, and the whole country was convinced that some people, through some inappropriate means, acquired that money at the expense of the many suffering Zambians. I believe that this report, in a way, puts that argument to rest. However, we would have been happier had the report gone on to provide further information. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is aware of the different types of contracts that are entered into. Some contracts are ‘design and build’, whereby a contractor is asked to provide a design apart from the actual construction. In that case, payments are made towards the design just like payments are made towards construction. What worried us is the fact that if at all we, as a country, had got to the level where the Government could pay US$33 million without obtaining bonds from contractors, then, we ran the risk of depleting the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, as far as we are concerned, there was no time the Government ever suspended systems or procurement rules. Further, as far as we are concerned, the information that we have; the same information that the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has, is that for a contractor to obtain an advance payment from the Government, he provides an advance payment bond or a bank guarantee. At the same time, a contractor provides a performance bond, and the two bonds prevent the Government from being exposed in anyway. At a point when there is a failure in performance or a contractor gets an advance payment and runs away, as was portrayed to have happened in this case, all the Government needed to do, being the client, was simply cash in the bond and get its money back. That is how contracts are managed. We have been in this industry for over twenty-five years. So, we know that there is no time, no matter how small the payment, the Government is not secured.

Madam Speaker, as I said, we would have been happier had the Government provided more information on the nature of the contract that was entered into for Ntumpa and FTJ Chiluba universities. From the latest information we are getting on the report, it is very clear that the Government has been so economical in giving information to the people that people have made uninformed judgments on the matter. Going forward, we hope that the Government will take stock of all the incomplete projects so that when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is assembling his Budget for 2023, he takes them into account. The seconder of the Motion lamented that there was a lot of wastage on account of uncompleted projects. We all know that the non-fulfilment of assurances was partly on account of a policy change in which the then Government decided that due to financial constraints, it would only focus on projects that were at 80 per cent and above, meaning that those that were at 70 per cent and below were left unattended to. In the name of prudent use of resources, when the Government is coming up with the next Budget, it must take stock of those projects so that it begins to complete them. That way, we should be able to cut on the wastage that was mentioned in this report.

Madam Speaker, we also want to urge the Government to focus on some economic projects like the Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport (SMKIA) in Ndola and Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA) in Lusaka. The reason we, the Government then, came up with the idea of constructing those state-of-the-art airports was to create a transport hub in this region. So, in cases where parts of those projects are not completed, we have to ensure that they are given priority so that they begin to pay back because, then, we can position ourselves as a transport hub for this region. So, we urge the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, and other ministries connected to that infrastructure to quickly take up that initiative so that we can begin to reap benefits from those projects.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I support this Motion.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you kindly, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Lumezi the opportunity to share their opinion on this report.

Madam Speaker, as much as the good people of Lumezi have permitted us to support this Motion, the Committee should have gone a little further and proposed that our colleagues who are privileged to be on the Executive side of the Government be cited for contempt of the House when they come and make assurances that they cannot implement.

Madam Speaker, permit the good people of Lumezi to mention that if we are to adopt this report the way it is, most of those serving in the current and previous Administrations will be cited for contempt of the House because many lies are what people who are privileged –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lumezi!

Please, withdraw the word “lies”. Also, be relevant by referring to pages in the report.

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you for your guidance, Madam Speaker. Permit me to withdraw the word “lies” and replace it with ‘falsehood’. Permit me, too, to take this House to page 80, where the sinking of boreholes in Lumezi has been mentioned in the report.

Madam Speaker, if, indeed, the hon. Minister then made such an assurance, but the boreholes have not been sunk from 2016 to now, in 2022, in Lumezi –

Madam Speaker, just at the bottom of the report, Lumezi is mentioned, and the hon. Minister then is said to have said that the contractor was sinking boreholes in different districts, but had not yet reached Lumezi. If you go to the Executive’s response, you will note that it is stated that the Committee resolved to await a progress report on the matter. Honestly, we are discussing a report, yet this Committee is waiting for a report from the Executive. This is falsehood. So, progressively speaking, we should have in our Standing Orders, since that is what we rely on to manage people who spread falsehood, provisions for people to be cited for contempt.

Madam Speaker, the report says that the growing tendency of the Executive to make assurances on the Floor of the House when funds are not available is trivialising issues here. What Zambians are now learning, because we are now dealing with a well-informed citizenry, is that individuals will come here and play politics at the expenses of serving the interest of the people we lead. Individuals should not maintain their ministerial positions by coming here and telling lies for political expediency.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lumezi!

You have been told to not use words like ‘lies’ because they are unparliamentarily. Please, use a better word.

Mr Munir Zulu: Sorry, Madam Speaker. You know, this language is alien to some of us.

Madam Speaker, we are getting to a stage where citizens think that, maybe, we are here to preach falsehoods. So, the report should have gone a bit further and recommended that anyone making assurances on behalf of the Government will be cited for contempt of the House or be arrested for lying –

Sorry, Madam Speaker. For spreading falsehoods.

Madam Speaker, I know that we are a fusion Parliament and that it is possible that tomorrow, I could occupy a ministerial position in place of Hon. Eng. Milupi or Hon. Haimbe, SC., and I should be able to be cited –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Resume your seat.

Please, avoid debating other hon. Members and stick to the report. You have sufficient time to debate, but do not bring other hon. Members into your debate.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I am making these submissions so that we can be on the same page.

Madam Speaker, in the event that I am the one to make Government assurances, I should know that there is a cost to telling lies, sorry, to spreading falsehoods, using the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, from 2016 to date, more than five years have passed and, ordinarily, we should have been taking on whoever made the assurance that sixteen boreholes would be drilled in Lumezi for contempt of the House and prosecuting him or her in the courts of law. If we ignore this component, the report will prove to Zambians that our hon. Colleagues in the current and previous Executives are cut from the same cloth.

Madam Speaker, what was wrong previously should still be wrong today and what was right then should still be right now.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks from the good people of Lumezi, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for this time to speak on the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances.

Madam Speaker, in supporting this Motion, let me start by saying that the mover has just told us and the country at large that 180 old assurances and fifteen new ones are pending, meaning that the Executive of the New Dawn is inheriting 180 unfulfilled assurances. So, it has to learn. There is the urge to say that the new Executive must be allowed to learn from the mistakes of the previous one and take caution, and yes, it should.

Madam Speaker, I have just heard, again, in the report, that there is no money for the universities, and that is why the Executive says that it needs to find the money first. However, why do we have a huge debt in the midst of all these unfulfilled assurances? We borrowed enough. So, where did we take the money that we borrowed? How come, today, we still have 180 and fifteen or 195 unfulfilled promises? An assurance is a promise, but it is up to the Government or, maybe, the person who makes it to take caution. Taking the example of the home situation in Mitete, when one proposes and does so with the right assurances, the marriage will last. Otherwise, the marriage will not last.

Madam Speaker, on page 10 of the report, there was an assurance regarding the Luanginga Bridge, which was made in June, 2021. The New Dawn Government has inherited that, and we would like to see, at least, that assurance fulfilled in 2022 or 2023. Hopefully, it will, and the hon. Ministers are listening. The benchmarking visit to Rwanda gave us a good reason, Step No. 5, which is the vote of no confidence. I think, votes of no confidence do happen in Zambia and, last year, we witnessed it because of the 195 unfulfilled assurances. Where are the universities, boreholes for Lumezi and bridges? Where is the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbezhi Road, which is among the 180 promises made on the Floor of this House for ten years?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Now, the previous Government is gone and the responsibility is with the New Dawn Government, which has to take caution and learn from the mistakes of the past and not fall into the same trap as the previous Government. It should not promise things when the money is not there. If there is no money, the Government should just say that something will be done when money is available. It should not shy away from doing that. It should also tell the nation that by building the economy, money will become available and the execution of assurances will start. This is a caution to the New Dawn Government to take a leaf from the immediate past Executive which, like in Rwanda, faced a vote of no confidence.

Madam Speaker, I hope that the Mitete District Civic Centre, the Boma, will take shape. To date, there is literary nothing. We only saw a lot break ground, laying of foundations and such activities, and that is just not done. We would also love to see the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbezhi Road worked on, together with the Luanginga Bridge.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I would like, from the outset, to thank the mover and seconder of the Motion and presenter of the report.

Madam Speaker, going through this report, I noticed that it gives lessons to both sides of the House.

Madam Speaker, I will be very sober in my debate.

Madam Speaker, I draw your attention to pages 98 and 99, which address the issue of King Lewanika University. In the report, it is said that according to the Executive, the university is at 10 per cent and was supposed to take three years to complete. I do not know whether the 10 per cent was part of the negotiations or signing of the contract, because there is no King Lewanika University; there is just a bush. So, maybe, the 10 per cent relates to the negotiations.

Madam Speaker, this report points to a deep scar, as it is the worst thing that a Government can do to betray its citizens by promising and failing to deliver. That is why when governments are elected, they must stop campaigning. On the 180 promises, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government must take a leaf from the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and learn that when a government is elected, it is elected to deliver development, not to be re-elected. That is why when a government is elected, it must prioritise its agenda, stop promising to do things and deliver development. It should stop saying ‘We will do’ and deliver development. The “We will do” on King Lewanika University is still ‘We will do’, as there is no King Lewanika University in the Western Province. Today, the report recommends the right course of action for the Government, which is that the Government takes a leaf from the mistakes of the past. If resources are not there, it should not commit; as simple as that, because the people we promise will hold us to account.

Madam Speaker, I draw your attention to the fish cages mentioned on page 101, which were promised by the then hon. Minister of Finance in 2017. Of course, some of them have been delivered. For example, when you look at Nalolo Constituency, which was promised twenty-six cages; thirteen in Marana and thirteen at Kaungalueti, the situation is different, as I would like to report that the twenty-six cages were delivered three years after the promise was made.

Madam Speaker, I take into deep cognisance the report and the benchmarking lessons learnt from Rwanda on hon. Members of the Executive who cannot deliver on promises on account of not having the fiscal space needing to get back to the House to say so. The issue of promising and keeping quiet is what brings us to the place described in the report.

Madam Speaker, when you listen to the debate of hon. Members, you hear that the biggest motivation for making assurances is the lack of separation of politics from development. It is time this country moved towards understanding that governance and politics are two different things. Under your leadership, the National Assembly has an opportunity to hold the Executive more accountable for promises made. I, therefore, support this report and its recommendations so that in delivering development, the Government is sincere on the Floor of the House and able to come back to explain why some promises are not being honoured.

Madam Speaker, in summary, I unreservedly support the adoption of this report and congratulate the hon. Members who sat on this Committee. The report is excellent, and we only hope that the recommendations will be implemented.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: More hon. Members have indicated to speak but, on account of time, we need to make progress. I will, therefore, call in the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to make some responses.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion. I also thank the Mover of this Motion, Hon. Kamondo from Mufumbwe, and the seconder, Hon. Nkulukusa from Katuba Constituency.

Madam Speaker, herein lies what we as the New Dawn Administration keep bringing to this House: sometimes, we get blamed and be asked a number of questions, especially on infrastructure, be it schools, roads or bridges, and time after time, being mindful of the responsibility of the Government when it makes statements on the Floor of this House and of the state of our economy, that is, the lack of funds and resources, we answer questions by saying ‘when funds are available’. We do get negative reactions from those on your left, but that is done precisely to ensure that we do not fall in the same trap that our hon. Colleagues fell in.

Mr Kafwaya: Handle it. You are now in charge.

Eng. Milupi: Hon. Member for Lunte, you are an educated person. I am sure, you know what I am talking about.

Madam Speaker, I agree with the report’s position that over the past years, the Government has made assurances on the Floor of the House that have remained unfulfilled. It is sad to note that some assurances are more than ten years old, as noted by the Committee. While some assurances have not been fully fulfilled, in some cases, progress has been registered towards their actualisation.

Madam Speaker, in the area of infrastructure development, many of the assurances that remain outstanding are due to the fiscal constraints faced by the Government due to over-commitments by the previous Government. It is general knowledge that our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) over-committed the country in the road sector and in other infrastructure development projects without a clear plan on how those projects were going to be financed. Projects were started without confirmation of funds or a clear financing mechanism that would see to it that once the projects were started, money would be available to complete and operationalise the infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, it is, indeed, a sad situation to travel round the country, as I have done, and see many unfinished schools, roads, hospitals and other public infrastructure. It is, indeed, frustrating for many hon. Members of Parliament to receive assurance after assurance, but the projects are not delivered. It is unacceptable for our people; women and children, to see unfinished projects, year in and year out, and fail to receive the much-needed services due to the failure to complete projects.

Madam Speaker, the issue of outstanding Government assurances will be addressed once we fix the economy. That is the starting point and only assured way, as our country will be able to generate revenues to pay its debt and finance its development agenda. The level of indebtedness inherited by the New Dawn Administration of His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, poses a great challenge to addressing the many outstanding Government assurances in infrastructure inherited from the previous Administration. As the Government, we have set fixing the economy and dismantling the crippling debt as our priority, as that will eventually help us to unlock the resources needed to complete the many pending projects.

We must be ready to make bold and difficult decisions, Madam Speaker. That is why this New Dawn Administration, in the area of infrastructure development, rather than promise, like I have heard from the other side, for instance, the hon. Member for Nalolo another, advise, separating politics from development is, in a way, right. It is very easy for hon. Ministers in this Administration to stand up and make promise after promise and sign contract after contract in the hope that would make us popular. However, in actuality, it drives the economy down. So, when we stand here and analyse project after project and state what we are doing to actualise the developmental agenda, it is not because we do not want to be popular; it is because we want to be realistic and responsible so that future Committees or future reports on Government Assurances will have fewer unfulfilled Government Assurances.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the number in this report, 180 and fifteen, which is 195, is a disgrace to the governance of a parliamentary democracy like ours. We ought to take coming to this House and running the Government seriously. When we embark on a project, we have to have the funds.

Madam Speaker, we appear to have been a bit slow, and the reason for that is the recognition that we have to build up resources and bring down the debts, borrow at concessional interest rates and build the economy so that we have more money in the Treasury to implement projects. Until such a time, the answer to many questions that will be raised on the Floor of this House will continue to be ‘when resources are available’. We are trying to shift as many infrastructure projects as possible to the public-private partnership (PPP) model because once we are able to sign, as we are going to in the very near future, the money for those projects will not be from the Treasury or from loans but investments coming in. Hence, there is that focus. We are also focusing on linking our country to our neighbours so that we can increase trade. That trade will help us to build up resources in the Treasury so that we can implement many more projects.

Madam Speaker, your report on Government Assurances is a big lesson to us on the need to continue to do the right things as we have done in the last nine months. It is also a big lesson to the previous Administration. What we want from them is an admission that things did not go too well, and that is why we still have reports like this.

With those words, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I commend the Committee on Government Assurances for the report tabled before this House for its consideration and action.

Madam Speaker, the report has highlighted various challenges affecting the implementation of Government economic service delivery programmes and the utilisation of funds advanced for programme implementation. Some of the challenges and recommendations highlighted in the report are as discussed below.

Madam Speaker, on funding for the completion of the Geological Mapping Programme, the Committee urges the Executive to urgently secure funds for the programme. Your Committee may wish to note that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has a Geological Mapping Sub-Programme under the Mineral Development and Management Programme. In the 2022 Budget, an allocation of K6.9 million was made towards the sub-programme to increase the percentage of area mapped from 55 per cent to 56 per cent, and to digitise geological and mineral resources data, which are critical to attracting investment in the mining sector.

Madam Speaker, on the delay in the implementation of fiscal decentralisation at the provincial and district levels, your Committee recommends that the Executive ensures that all functions that require fiscal decentralisation be moved without further delay. Your Committee may wish to note that the Executive has outlined, in the 2022 – 2026 Decentralisation Plan, the actualisation of fiscal decentralisation. The following functions have been earmarked for devolution under Phase I in 2022:

1. district health;

1. veterinary services;

1. community sport;

1. cultural matters;

1. archives;

1. vehicle licensing;

1. pontoons, ferries, jetties and harbours; and

1. youth, sports and arts.

Your Committee may further wish to note that the process of devolving these functions commenced in 2022.

Madam Speaker, on delays in the completion of the expansion and modernisation of Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA), the Committee urges the Executive to urgently finalise the debt service deferment and resumption of disbursements to the project to expedite its completion, which is three years behind schedule. In this regard, I inform your Committee that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has prioritised the completion of the project. As your Committee may be aware, since the end of 2019, the Government had been facing challenges in servicing its public external debt and has since accrued arrears, and that led to the lenders halting disbursements to the project. It is important, however, to note that the Government has made significant progress in addressing the debt challenge and implementation of the project, which is almost complete. The Government is also making budgetary allocations towards works being completed in 2022.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is committed to ensuring that outstanding assurances made on the Floor of this House are attended to, and takes note of the recommendations made in the report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I thank all the hon. Members who debated this report and supported it. From the look of things, all hon. Members from both sides almost spoke to one thing.

Madam Speaker, when we went on the ground, we discovered that some of the assurances had been made a long time previously. So, the people out there expect the old and the new assurances to be implemented together, and that is why your Committee makes the recommendation that when the resources are not available, the Government is not swayed into making promises like the previous Government made. If you look at our reports, you will see that the one on Government Assurances is actually the biggest and is almost as big as the one for the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). Many hon. Members in this House want development in their constituencies and, because there is too much pressure, members of the Executive make promises that they cannot fulfil. However, your Committee is somehow happy to hear that the Executive will look for resources before it makes any Government assurances.

Madam Speaker, just to repeat ourselves, we also urge that when the assurances are not fulfilled, the Government, through the Vice-President, gets back to the House and tells the people out there so that they know the exact position.

Madam Speaker, I thank everyone who supported the report, including the hon. Members who have learnt that we need to work together. Indeed, mistakes were made, but we cannot continue making them, and we are happy that the new Executive has realised that and learnt from the mistakes made in the past.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

______

BILL

JUDGES CONDITIONS OF SERVICE (Amendment) BILL, 2022

(Resumption of Debate)

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to complete my contribution to the debate on the Bill.

Madam Speaker, before Business was interrupted, I had made reference to Article 232, which establishes the Emoluments Commission. In my submission, I quoted Article 232(2) as follows:

“The Emoluments Commission shall determine, on the recommendation of the relevant authority or commission, the emoluments of public officers, chiefs and members of the House of Chiefs as provided in this Constitution or as prescribed.”

Madam Speaker, what I was trying to say to the hon. Minister of Justice is that if, indeed, the rationale behind this Article is to include the President, the President would have been mentioned instead of “an authority”. The “relevant authority” in this case is the Judiciary, and it should work with the Emoluments Commission.

Madam Speaker, we are happy that the hon. Minister of Justice has already made progress by ensuring that the Emoluments Commission Act is in place. So, the prescription referred to in the Constitution has been put in the Emoluments Commission Act of 2022, and Sections 15 to 18 of the Act are very clear.

Madam Speaker, again, I will belabour the point on the doctrine of the separation of powers and say that the Constitution was trying to move away from the aspect of who pays the piper calling the tune. In this regard, the President recommending the emoluments for Judges will be another way of one arm of the Government controlling another. The desirable position is the Judiciary, working with the Emoluments Commission, making recommendations that are then acted on by the commission.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, on page 8 of its report, also makes the very interesting observation that the conditions of service of other judicial officers, such as those of Magistrates of the Subordinate and Local Courts, and Research Advocates, which are determined based on collective agreements reached between the public service unions and the Government, must also be covered by the Judges (Conditions of Service) (Amendment) Bill. Because of the peculiar nature of the work they do, it would be prudent that the two categories of workers are covered by the same Bill. Your Committee has made this recommendation, and we expect the hon. Minister to attend to the proposal to amend Clause 3 so that the President is not brought into play.

Madam Speaker, I want to emphasise that your Committee did a lot of work and, by practice, what the Committee recommends here is what should be taken. We do not act against our Committees’ recommendations. What is expected of the hon. Minister of Justice is to either make the necessary amendments as recommended by your Committee or, indeed, withdraw the Bill to go and work on it so that it includes the observations that the Committee has made.  

Madam Speaker, this Committee interacted with the Executive through Cabinet Office, and Cabinet Office was also very clear in what it wanted to see in this Bill. So, let us enhance the doctrine of the separation of powers. The Judiciary should be left to manage its affairs to some extent, but of course, working with the Emoluments Commission, whose Act has already been put in place.

Madam Speaker, I emphasise to the hon. Minister of Justice that we shall be with him and support him if he respects the work of your Committees established here in Parliament.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. To start with, I want to state that the doctrine of the separation of powers remains a very strong pillar of good governance, and this entails that the Executive, Judiciary and Legislature should not only be independent but be seen to be independent.

Madam Speaker, of the three arms of the Government, you will agree with me that the Executive and the Legislature are predominantly controlled by politicians. It is only the Judiciary that might not have a mind of its own because it only has the mind of the law, and that is why we must protect the Judiciary at all costs.

Madam Speaker, we have what we call the twin constitutional pillars, namely the security of tenure and conditions of service. So, when you are talking about the independence of the Judiciary, you need to look at these twin pillars so that, first of all, the judicial officers are guaranteed in terms of security of tenure and, indeed, conditions of service.

Madam Speaker, as earlier argued by my hon. Colleague, we should not get to a stage where he that pays the piper calls the tune. So, we have to ensure that our Judges have security of tenure and that their conditions of service are determined by the Emoluments Commission and the Judiciary. If the security of tenure and conditions of service, for some reason, and through the Bill that has been presented, are determined in the manner that is being proposed, the independence of the Judiciary will be undermined and, in the end, the Zambian society will pay a heavy price. I, therefore, implore the Executive, through my fellow learned counsel, the hon. Minister of Justice, to, at all costs, resist the temptation to dilute or undermine the independence of the Judiciary because once that is done, it is the Zambian society that will pay a heavy price.

Madam Speaker, in the Constitution, Article 122 speaks to the independence of the Judiciary, Article 123 speaks to the financial independence of the Judiciary and Article 232 establishes the Emoluments Commission. Article 264(2) provides that:

“The emoluments of a State officer, councillor, Constitutional officeholder and judge shall be determined by the Emoluments Commission, as prescribed.”

Madam Speaker, when you look at “as prescribed”, meaning, through an Act of Parliament, the two things to consider are the text and the spirit of the Constitution. Looking at the constitutional provisions I have quoted, you will agree with me that the intention of the framers of the Constitution was to make the three arms of the Government totally independent. We, therefore, cannot come up with an Act or amendment that begins to go against that intention of the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, I further advise that sometimes, as we interpret the Constitution, we do not pick one provision and run with it. For instance, some may argue that the Emoluments Act, provides that, “in consultation with an authority or commission”. However, Article 267 enjoins us to read all constitutional provisions that relate to a particular subject together. In this case, if we read all the relevant provisions together, we will come to only one conclusion, which is that the intention of the text in the Constitution was to create the Judiciary as an independent body, and that the Judiciary will not be independent if the determination of the emoluments of Judges is placed under the Executive.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Justice has made pronouncements in the media, as has His Excellency the President of this Republic, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, that the President will govern using the rule of law. I think, the starting point is to ensure that the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary operate independently. In this regard, one wonders what is there to be lost on part of the Executive if the President is not involved in the determination of the emoluments of Judges. On the other hand, I think, there is everything to lose if the independence of the Judiciary is affected by allowing the Executive to have a hand in the determination of the emoluments of Judges. When you weigh the two concerns, I think, the scale tips towards leaving the Judiciary alone and the Executive not interfering in the administration of the Judiciary. We should allow the Judiciary to remain independent and manage its own affairs, including the determinations of its conditions of services.

Madam Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 15^th June, 2022.

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