Debates - Friday, 22nd June, 2012

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Friday, 22nd June, 2012
The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]




The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider next week, as you have ordered me. 

Sir, on Tuesday, 26th June, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, again, if there will be any. After that, the House will debate the Motion to Adopt the Report of the Committee on Tourism, Information and Broadcasting Services. Then, the House will consider the Committee Stage of the Persons with Disabilities Bill, 2012. 

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 27th June, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider a Private Member’s Motion entitled, “Establish a National Institution for Performance, Monitoring and Evaluation” to be moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central Parliamentary Constituency. Then, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General for 2009 on the accounts of parastatal bodies. 

Sir, on Thursday, 28th June, 2012, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will by any. The House will then consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the following reports:

(a)    Committee on Agriculture; and

(b)    Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 29th June, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances. Then, the House will consider any business that may remain outstanding.
I thank you, Sir.


Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the global community has been informed by His Excellency the President that Zambia does not need donor money, but technology from the donor community. Could His Hon. the Vice-President tell the House what policy measures the Government has taken in order to realise this new policy direction for the country.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, it would be asking me quite a lot to expect that I have held detailed discussions with His Excellency since yesterday... 


The Vice-President: … across the 4,000 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. As I understand His Excellency’s statement, it is one of emphasis and of prioritisation. For too long, this country has depended on foreign assistance, which is not necessarily given deservedly, but because people feel humanitarian pity for us. He is merely affirming the Patriotic Front’s (PF) determination, I believe, which is in the manifesto and I am sure the hon. Member has read, that we should take an ever increasing amount of responsibility for our own fate. I hope that suffices for now.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba (Bahati): Mr Speaker, there have been some cries in the media over the President being accompanied on his trip, by Mr Elias Chipimo, the leader of National Restoration Party (NAREP), and Ms Edith Nawakwi, leader of the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD). Would His Honour the Vice-President shed more light on the benefits that the two Opposition leaders will carry with them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I believe there are two types of political issues. There are short-term political issues where one can be divisive and there are long-term issues of sustainability, the future of our children and our children’s children. There, I do not believe that there is any room for political division.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Sir, I would expect the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) or the United Party for National Development (UPND) to join with the PF without any sort of hesitation …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … if we are discussing the sustainability of our country, twenty or fifty years from now. The particular individuals in question have a long record of concern about the environment, particularly the young Mr Elias Chipimo Jnr, whom, if you read his book, you will find that he is very emphatic about the need for green economics.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, prior to the 2011 Tripartite Elections, the UPND and the PF used to vehemently condemn the MMD actions of providing relief maize, drilling boreholes and grading of roads in constituencies where elections or by-elections were to be held. It has now transpired that the same tendencies the PF used to condemn are obtaining in Muchinga, Chama North and Livingstone.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether the PF has realised that those actions of the MMD, when it was in power, were, in fact, so good that it was envious and is now doing the same things it used to condemn. I want to hear an honest answer from His Honour the Vice-President. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will lay on the Table some information for the hon. Members in order to save a bit of time. However, basically, this is the story. Last year, in Chama District, in both Chama North and South constituencies, a total of 750 tonnes of maize were delivered. This was not on an emergency basis, but to the individuals and individual villages that had been identified by the non-governmental organisations (NGO’s) as actually having hungry people in them. What is being distributed in Chama, this year, because the situation is not as bad, is only 200 tonnes and most of it will be distributed in Chama South.

Mr Speaker, so I think it is important to look at the numbers. That there is relief given to people is a regular thing. It is not something that is …


Mr Speaker: Order! Order! 

He is responding.

The Vice-President: … which is done in response to political instructions given to civil servants. 

Mr Speaker, in Serenje, the case was that 750 tonnes were given in the three constituencies of Serenje. This year, the amount being given is much smaller. What happened in Livingstone is that although 950 tonnes were distributed in Kazungula, last year, there was no maize distributed in the small rural area of Livingstone because production was healthy. However, production, this year, has fallen from 1, 602 tonnes, last year, to only 295 tonnes. So, this is systematic food relief and I will leave the document here, at the end of the thirty minutes, to be examined. If there is further misunderstanding in this elementary lesson, I will give a ministerial statement in due course.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, Hear!

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, while Parliament was on recess, the Government of the Republic of Zambia donated 5,000,000 litres of fuel at the value of US$7, 000,000 to Malawi. Almost immediately after that, we experienced a serious fuel shortage. Considering Zambia’s high poverty levels and the fact that US$7,000,000 could have gone a long way in alleviating the poverty that our people are living under, can this Government, through His Honour the Vice-President, explain to us the rationale behind the decision to give away US$7, 000,000.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is a poem which states that no man is an island. The same truth applies to countries, except for those that are islands and which Zambia is certainly not. As the good hon. Member of Parliament knows, the so-called border between Zambia and Malawi is an imaginary line which divides the catchment of the Shire River and the lake from the Luangwa River. If you stood at Muchinji Border Post and looked through the long grass, you would see the heads of people moving in both directions along the so-called Zalewa, the back door.

Mr Speaker, the risk of having a failed state on either side of the border is that which anybody can surely understand. It is better to pre-empt some of these things starting with a gesture. South Africa was also very concerned and put in a month’s supply much more than 5,000,000 litres into Malawi as fast as it could get it there. I believe that it was an appropriate and tactful use of resources. Besides that, the hon. Minister responsible for energy will be giving a ministerial statement, on Tuesday, on the fuel supply situation and you can question him about the ins and outs of the Malawi donation. Frankly, if you ask me, it was a cheaper option as opposed to the price we would have to pay if the state failed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, it is said that, “He who lives on the banks of a river does not wash his hands with spittle.”


Mr Lufuma: Now, listening to the debates, yesterday, and the week that has passed, what has become eminent is the fact that many hon. Ministers, on the Floor, alluded to the fact that there was a limitation in financial resources to implement most of the Government’s programmes and projects. Now, we are living in the midst of plenty … 

Hon. Members: Question!

Mr Lufuma: Let me finish first.

We have a lot of revenue coming from the mining sector, and yet we complain about limitations in financial resources.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, ...

Mr Lufuma: When are we …

Mr Speaker: Okay.

Mr Lufuma: I would like to find out what current action the Government is undertaking to ensure that we crop in as much revenue as possible in order to develop this country and alleviate poverty.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are two separate issues that are discussed and sometimes confused in relation to mining taxation and taxation of foreign investment generally. One issue is the argument about the actual formula used to establish how much of the profit, the value added, belongs to Zambia and how much of it is attributed to or can be taken away by the investor.

Mr Speaker, another question is, having decided, for example, that the State gets 50 per cent of the value added from the mining operations, how do you make sure you collect it? At the moment, the emphasis is on ensuring scrutiny on information gathering. I am sure that the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development can confirm that and has to make sure that we know exactly how much copper is going out, exactly how much it costs to produce and so on and so forth. That is where the emphasis is at present.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, could His Honour the Vice-President clarify the Government’s position on street vending.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government’s position on spending is when the hon. Ministers of Commerce … Sorry, what am I saying?

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President, the question is on street vending.


The Vice-President: I am sure I heard that, Mr Speaker. That was simply a slip of the tongue. 

Sir, on street vending, when various hon. Ministers of Commerce, Trade and Industry have done their job and employed everybody, we are prepared to be harsh on street vendors. Until that time, we have to strike some kind of compromise whereby people can make a living from their day-to-day activities. It is a difficult and tight rope to walk on. Some people are hard and others are soft liners. The problem is there, but the State is responsible for the welfare of everybody who is a citizen of Zambia and we shall not relent on that one.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I want to look at His Honour the Vice-President. 


Mr Mbewe turned to look at His Honour the Vice-President. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, address the Speaker.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, early this month, in one of the tabloids, a very senior member of the PF said that the Office of the Vice-President is of a chola boy. I would like His Honour the Vice-President to confirm or deny the statement. 


Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is quoting slang expressions and asking if they are literally true. Of course, he has not told us that a chola boy is someone who carries a bag for somebody else. 


The Vice-President: I think that the Office of the Vice-President, in reality, depends on what one makes of it. Therefore, he can judge me at the end of my term, which may come sooner or later, we do not know. He can mark me between zero and five as a chola boy. 

I thank you, Sir.


Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, following the by-election in Msanzala, a question was posed to His Honour the Vice-President on why the PF Government continued to use foreign printers for ballot papers when it was vehemently opposed to this scenario.  

Mr Speaker, more recently, it was announced that a company in the United Kingdom (UK) would print ballot papers for the upcoming by-elections. When a question in relation to this was posed at the time, His Honour the Vice-President said that the Msanzala By-election was the last for which foreign firms would be used to print ballot papers. I would like to find out when the PF Government will begin to live up to its word. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the main problem faced by the relevant ministries is that of the specifications for both the conditions under which the ballot papers are printed and the quality itself is currently a little in excess of what we can manage. This matter is under constant review. Hopefully, we will be able to get away even from British printers. 

The original kerfuffle over the whole issue of printing ballot papers was also connected to alleged corruption in the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ).

Hon. Opposition Member: What is kerfuffle?

The Vice-President: Kerfuffle is an English word. Look it up in the dictionary. 

I thank you, Sir. 


Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, the stand-off between cotton growers and buyers is very disturbing. Even after so many meetings, nothing has materialised. What is the Government’s position on this issue?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government’s position is that it is reluctant to become involved. However, we, as a Government, are smart enough to know that we may be dragged into this issue and we want to be dragged into it reluctantly, but also intelligently. We do not want to add to the many voices currently in dispute. There is a meeting going on today, if I am not mistaken, between the ginners and the growers to try, yet again, to achieve some kind of agreement. 

Mr Speaker, the problem with the cotton price is that, last year, the international cotton market was more buoyant than it had ever been in the history of cotton. It was an extremely high price internationally. There were suggestions made by some people that part of that windfall should be retained as part of a stabilisation fund so that when the inevitable downturn came, there could be some boosting of the free market price. 

The growers and unions that represent them said that they understood markets well enough. Subsequently, the growers got the full payout and, as it tends to happen in agricultural production, having got one high price, people think it will continue and they end up piling it up in every country that grows cotton hoping to win on this bonanza. As a result, they over produce and we get a dip in the market again. The market has basically returned to what it was before last year’s boom or a little below that. We will help, but we do not wish to tip our hand or show our cards publicly. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Monde (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President how far the Government has gone with the issue of selling the public media. Earlier, he promised this House that the process would begin.   

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I know that there are private potential buyers snooping around. I know nothing of any details of any negotiations. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, Zambia has committed itself to the attainment of the millennium development goals (MDGs) and Vision 2030 through the use of national development plans such as the current Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP). Can I get a confirmation from His Honour the Vice-President that the PF Government has abandoned the SNDP and, instead, intends to use the PF Manifesto, which has no strategies and key performance indicators. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not understand the question. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Hon. Member for Lubansenshi may repeat the question. 

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, can I get confirmation from His Honour the Vice-President that the PF has abandoned the SNDP because it was done by the previous administration and that it intends to use its manifesto, which does not have strategies and key performance indicators, for poverty reduction. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the part of the question I understand is whether we have abandoned the SNDP and the answer is no, we have not. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-General Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, Zambia is renowned for its kindness and hospitality. A few weeks ago, we saw this being lived fully up to and dramatically by His Honour the Vice-President who dished out K13 million to a candidate in Livingstone for the construction of a market. 

Can His Honour the Vice-President assure this House and the nation that this kind of generosity will continue in Matero, for instance, where they need a modern market and will not only end in Livingstone where there is a by-election. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, when a political party claims that a market belongs to them, it is very tempting to …


The Vice-President: … simply call it a joint property of more than one party. I thought that was quite a meaningful gesture, especially as Livingstone is in the grip of toilet problems. I do know how else to put it. There are vast areas of that town where a person cannot defecate decently. It was symbolic of our concern for their health and welfare.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo interjected.

The Vice-President: Maybe, I was a bit spontaneous, but it was outside the campaign period, Hon. Dr Chituwo, I am sorry.


The Vice-President: I can assure you that if Matero Market has similar needs, it will get similar treatment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, my question has already been raised by Hon. Mooya.

Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether the size of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) pack will be increased or the number of the fertiliser packs will be increased.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, originally, we had not realised what a vast amount of corruption and dishonesty there is in the FISP.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: A lot of that fertiliser is finding its way into foreign countries, on to the farms of commercial farmers and to large emerging farmers who are not the target beneficiaries of the FISP. The message I am giving in every village that I visit, and there are many, is that help us straighten out the abuse of this system and then we can address ourselves to how many bags of fertiliser we are going to give to a small farmer. However, at the moment, that would be giving away bread to rats or bread to thieves in order to allow some of the smugglers and so on and so forth to get their hands on more fertiliser. We cannot have that.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, how many tonnes of maize is the Government planning to buy this season?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the budget is for a certain quantity. I think the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) will certainly have to exceed that quantity. As far as I am aware, no cap, limit or target has been established at this point any more than there was last year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, can you confirm that the PF Government has failed to pay all the farmers, especially in Dundumwezi where more than 300 farmers have not been paid.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my point stands. I think the point I always make which is that if you want to know what is happening in Dundumwezi from the Vice-President, please, let him know twenty-four hours ahead so that he can inquire. It is very difficult to know everything that is going on in every place.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: However, I will suggest to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock that he makes a statement on this issue and close it once and for all.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: It is very difficult when you have people who have never even produced a bag of maize claiming on the basis of pieces of paper that they are owed enormous amounts of money. It is very difficult to administer a system like that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the PF Government has failed to deliver the 900 metric tonnes of relief food to Chilubi.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I can only repeat the comment I made to the last question. I cannot answer constituency or district specific questions like that from the top of my head unless you are very lucky.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I will certainly say, as I said, if that question is given to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when he makes a public statement, we will ensure he gets the answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’undu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President how ready the police is to deal with the political violence that characterise by-elections.


Mr Speaker: Order!

 His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time has expired.




341. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    whether any mining explorations had ever been carried out in Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency and, if so, when;

(b)    which mining companies carried out the exploration works;

(c)    what mineral deposits, if any, had been discovered during the exploration works; and

(d)    in which geographical areas the mineral deposits had been found.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, exploration for minerals has been carried out in Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency since 2000.

Sir, Motapa Diamonds Company conducted exploration works in Lukulu West in 2000. Currently, BHP Billiton and Zambian North Mining Corporation are prospecting for minerals in Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Speaker, no mineral deposits have been discovered in the constituency as the exploration programme is still continuing with various mining houses doing works in the constituency.

Since no mineral deposits have been discovered, this aspect of the question falls away.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, we have been informed that BHP Billiton is carrying out exploration …

Ms Kalima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to apologise to my grandfather on the Floor for interrupting him.


Ms Kalima: The country, through this Parliament, is in a process of enacting the Freedom of Information Bill, which is a plus to the nation. Besides that, every human being in Zambia enjoys freedom of speech and expression, especially journalists, who are the main informers of the nation.

Sir, yesterday, according to media reports, Muvi Television, in particular, said journalists, who went to follow up a case on the missing ivory, visited Linda Police Station where one of the suspects was held. While there, the suspect was being moved to Chilanga Police and a film was taken of this. In the process, the police harassed the journalists, specifically the journalists from Muvi Television and the Times of Zambia newspaper. They were detained and ordered to delete the content on their cameras.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ooh! shame!

Ms Kalima: At the moment, Mr Speaker, the camera which belongs to Muvi Television is in the custody of the police.

Hon. Opposition Members: No! Shame!

Ms Kalima: This is an infringement on human rights. Just like what happened to the youths who were peacefully demonstrating. Therefore, is this Government, through the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, in order to sit down quietly without making a statement on what it will do to cage the police officers for intimidating people who are simply expressing themselves, especially the journalists from Muvi Television and the Times of Zambia newspaper, whose duty is to inform the nation? Is this Government in order?

Mr Speaker: The Leader of Government Business in the House is present. I am sure that he has clearly heard those sentiments and we expect that appropriate action will be taken by his office.

I must also hasten to mention, and I think I have said this before, especially in the context of a similar point of order raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, that the Constitution does, in fact, provide for the Bill of Rights, which protects a variety of liberties and freedoms of the citizens. In terms of Article 28(1) of the Constitution, for any person whose rights have been violated, there is an organ of the Government dedicated to that purpose and they should vindicate those rights. That notwithstanding, I hope that His Honour the Vice-President will take note of these actions.

I thank you.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I was just trying to raise a small question as a follow up to the hon. Minister’s statement regarding exploration works by B. H. P. Billiton and the other company I cannot remember now. How long have these exploration works been going on and, so far, what are the preliminary results?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, for the sake of Hon. Dr Kalila, the companies I mentioned were B. H. P. Billiton and Zambia North Mining. 

Sir, there are several significant works that have been done and some good prospects have been indicated in those areas, except that we need to be conclusive before we can announce the state of affairs in terms of the discovered minerals.

I thank you, Sir.


342. Mr Njeulu (Sinjemebela) asked the Minister of Home Affairs whether the Government had plans to grant citizenship to the Mbukushu, Kwangali and Kwakwandu people of Angola, who settled in Shang’ombo District after fleeing from the civil war in 1966.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Sakeni): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to grant citizenship to the Mbukushu, kwangali and Kwakwandu people of Angola, who settled in Shang’ombe District after feeling the civil war in 1966 because citizenship is not a right.

Sir, the Mbukushu, Kwangali, Kwakwandu and other people who fled from the civil war in Angola are encouraged to voluntarily repatriate to their country of origin before the cessation clause of 30th June, 2012. This repatriation exercise is currently being done with the assistance of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) in conjunction with the Governments of Zambia and Angola.

Sir, those unwilling to return will be expected to apply for citizenship under our current Constitution and the Citizenship Act. This would mostly be applicable to children born from families in which one parent is Zambian.

Mr Speaker, refugees who are married to Zambians are entitled to spouse permits under the Immigration and Deportation Act.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, what procedure should be followed by these people to apply for citizenship?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, our Citizenship Act is very clear. A person who has been resident in Zambia for a minimum of ten years and holds an immigration entry permit or resident permit is entitled to apply for citizenship.

Sir, those who are born from one Zambian parent are also entitled to become citizens. However, for our colleagues from Angola or any other refugees, who have settled here for more than that period, we will apply the Immigration and Deportation Act, which allows them to apply for specific permits and, where possible, we are still studying what mechanism we are going to use because most of them are poor and may not even be able to raise the amount required to pay for work or self-employment permits.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, what deliberate measures will the Government take to ensure that these people are assisted to acquire their citizenship more so that they are people with very little education?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, as I have said before, last week I launched the World Refugee Day. We will make sure that no person remains stateless. We have adequate laws that we will use to take care of every person.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dudumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that voluntary repatriation ceases by 30th June, 2012. What step will the Government take concerning those who will not have left the country by then?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, those who will not leave by then will, of course, cease to be refugees. However, as I said, we are working out mechanisms to make sure that nobody becomes stateless.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, what methods will be used to identify those who are not Zambians because these people just walked into the country due to lack of physical boundaries in some areas?

Sir, a long time ago, they were all moving just about and could only be identified by the language they spoke. So, how will the Government identify those who are not Zambians and who should, therefore, not be given citizenship? What we know about refugees is that they go into refugee camps, but these people did not do that. So, how are you going to identify them?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, our officers always engage the local traditional leadership in villages, especially where we know that a number of refugees have settled spontaneously over the years.

Sir, we have records and are going to use those records available from the UNHCR. You are aware that we have close to 48, 000 refugees. Some of these are settled spontaneously in villages and they are known. We know them through our traditional leadership and we have stock of everybody. Of course, in the process, not everybody is on record. Some have even acquired citizenship through fraudulent means. You must be aware of people claiming that even some of our own politicians somewhere are foreigners. This is a dicey issue.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, we have notorious robbers in this country and most of them are foreigners. Why is the Government failing to make sure that people like those in Shang’ombo we are talking about go back to their countries? Whenever there is a killing, it is by the same foreigners.

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, our prison records indicate that we have less people on death row or murder cases by people from outside our borders. We have got more of our own people convicted of crimes.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister come out clearly on this matter. 1966 is a long time ago. It is actually forty-six years ago. The hon. Minister has stated that some of these people may be in possession of national registration cards (NRCs) while some may not be known. Can he come out clearly whether we have clear records of who these people are and their status in the country.

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, the records we hold indicate that we have got about 48,000 refugees in this country. As I said earlier, it is difficult to actually have some of them on our records because our own people in the villages, including the traditional leadership, at times, support these foreigners. They stand for them claiming that they are Zambians when, in fact, they are not. That enables them to obtain the NRCs. That is why it is alleged that some of them have even come to Parliament as hon. Members.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister not …

Mr Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is it in order for the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to insinuate that, among us, here, there are foreigners, through his statement, without pointing out who that foreigner is?


Mr Speaker: First and foremost, it is inappropriate for the House to debate itself. Secondly, it is important that assertions that are made in the House are substantiated by facts. Therefore, I can only presume that all hon. Members sitting here were duly elected on the basis that they were eligible, in the first place, to stand. That is the ruling of the House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Long live, Mr Speaker!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, your ruling has adequately dealt with my concern and, therefore, I submit that I have no question.


343. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour how many job opportunities had been created in the tourism sub-sector from 2009 to 2011, year by year.

The Deputy Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour (Mr Mbulu): Mr Speaker, according to the Quarterly Employment and Earnings Inquiry, which was conducted in formal establishments by the Central Statistical Office (CSO), the number of jobs in the tourism sub-sector was as follows:

Year    No. Of Jobs
2008    14,243
2009    14,998
2010    23,050
2011    20,276

Mr Speaker, under this inquiry, the activities that are covered in the tourism sub-sector include short-term accommodation, camping grounds, recreational vehicle and trailer parks, other accommodation arrangements, restaurants and mobile food services, events catering and other food and beverage serving activities.

Mr Speaker, arising from the above statistics, the number of job opportunities created from 2009 to 2011, year by year, is as follows:

Year    No. of Jobs
2009    755
2010    8,052
2011    -2,774

Mr Speaker, I wish to emphasise that the inquiry only covers formal establishments registered with the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA) and Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). 

Sir, the ministry will be undertaking a comprehensive labour force survey from August, this year, which should give us an indication of how many jobs were created sector by sector.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Deputy Minister for that eloquent answer. However, could he be kind enough to state the mechanism that his ministry intends to put in place with a view to creating more job opportunities in the tourism sub-sector.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, as it has been indicated before, we will use a collective approach. As a country, we have the very serious objective of attracting investment. So, the first thing that we need to do is create an environment that will attract investors, both locally and internationally. The other thing is that we need to continue guaranteeing and sustaining the peace that we enjoy, which has been a premise for the attraction of, especially, foreign investors.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the delay in arriving at the minimum wage is an impediment to the process of attracting investment in the country.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, I do not think so because the two are totally mutually inclusive. What the hon. Member must appreciate is that, like His Honour the Vice-President said yesterday, the process of arriving at a minimum wage is supposed to be a consultative one. It must take into account the interests of all stakeholders. Therefore, it is not a process that should be rushed because, at the end of the day, you may make decisions that you will only regret in the short or long-term. So, I want to believe that we should allow the Government to do a very good job on the minimum wage, whilst continuing with the process of attracting investment.

Mr Speaker, thank you.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I wish to start by thanking my brother, Hon. Chisala, for asking a question on the economic sector, rather than his usual witchcraft sector.


Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the employment figures that the hon. Minister gave out are very low and worrying. He further ended by saying that the Government will encourage foreign investors in that sector. I would like to find out if there are any strategies to involve Zambians so that this particular wealth is created and owned by them.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, I stated a while ago that the Government encourages business activities for both local and foreign investors. When I say that the Government encourages local investors, I am actually referring to the support which we give to Zambian business people. Encouraging the growth of business enterprises is a very challenging task. The Government will do everything in its power to create an environment conducive for attracting investment. This is an environment which guarantees peace and security as well as other business incentives. Every Zambian is free to open up a business venture because there are no inhibiting factors whatsoever.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, investment depends on the confidence that investors have in a particular environment. Can this Government, through the ministry, assure us that from now onwards, it will avoid making pronouncements that tend to keep foreign investors away such as those bordering on the intended re-nationalisation of private assets.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, I think it is public knowledge that, through both electronic and print media houses, we have always stated a point which I would like to reiterate that the Government has no intentions whatsoever of nationalising any institution. Our intention is to actually continue attracting as many investors to this country as would be practically possible. Nationalisation is not an option which we are looking at. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that, in the PF Government, tourism is now a sub-sector.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, it is not a sub-sector, but a sector.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I want to ask the hon. Deputy Minister whether it is the Government’s position that each time there is a stand-off between employees and employers, as the case was just a week ago between the workers of the Zambia Sugar Company Limited and the company, the Government will have nothing to do with the efforts which will be employed to resolve the impasse as was stated by the hon. Minister of Finance last week.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, even though I may not have the competence to speak on behalf of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I wish to state that from our point of view, as the Ministry of Information, Broadcasting and Labour, it is the responsibility of the Government to regulate the relationship between employers and employees. That is why when there was a stand-off in Mazabuka, we quickly rushed there. I think ,with the guidance of our office, the impasse was resolved. It is important, I think, at this point, for me to remind Hon. Nkombo that we have worked very closely with him every time there has been an impasse such as the recent one in Mazabuka. Therefore, I do not know what his motivation for asking such a question is. We shall continue working closely together with every interested party to ensure that all industrial disputes are amicably resolved.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!



344. Mr Zimba (Kapiri-Mposhi) asked the Minister of Health when the Government would deploy additional doctors, nurses and dentists to the Kapiri-Mposhi District Hospital.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, the Government, in May, 2012, processed documentation for the deployment of nine additional nurses to Kapiri-Mposhi District Hospital broken down as follows:

(a)    three registered midwives;

(b)    five registered nurses; and

(c)    one registered theatre nurse.

Sir, this brings the total number of nurses at the hospital to fifty-eight. The hospital, currently, has four medical doctors as well as one dental therapist and a dental technologist. It is important to note that the process of recruitment of health workers is on-going. The Government will continue to post additional health workers to Kapiri-Mposhi District Hospital until the establishment is filled.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I have noticed an increase in the number of medical schools some of which are private. Probably, the private schools are the ones which are going to produce the extra doctors to post to Kapiri-Mposhi. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that standards are adhered to by these new private medical schools?

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, the maintenance of the highest standards of clinical performance is in the hands of suitable bodies under the Ministry of Health. It is compulsory that any graduate of a university in Zambia or outside, who wishes to practice in health institutions in Zambia, be registered by an appropriate institution. In the case of doctors and other related professionals, there is the Health Professions Council of Zambia and for the nurses, there is the General Nursing Council of Zambia. These two bodies are mandated to ensure that nobody practises without appropriate qualifications.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, last year, the President of Zambia gave directives to the Ministry of Health to put in place measures to attract medical personnel that has migrated to come back to Zambia. Do we have any Zambians who have come back since that pronouncement was made? If so, how many are they?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I must say that, from the outset, where numbers are involved, it would be convenient for me to be given adequate notice about the issue before I come to this House. I appreciate the point that the hon. Member may have a higher capacity to deal with figures than I do since I rely very much on my staff to provide me with statistical data when it is required. However, I can say in general that the response has been good. We have began to see the return of some staff.

Thank you, Sir.


345. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    whether the Government had issued any prospecting licences for minerals in Gwembe district as of 30th April, 2012;

(b)    if so, to whom the licences had been issued; and

(c)    for what minerals the licences were prospecting.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, as of 30th April, 2012, a total of ten prospecting licences were issued in Gwembe District. Among which were the following:

(a)    Workman Mining Industries Zambia Limited;

(b)    Era Power and Infrastructure (Z) Limited (3 Licences);

(c)    Property System Management Development Zambia Limited;

(d)    Donzam Investments Zambia Limited;

(e)    Xianghe Macrolink Mining (Z) Limited;

(f)    Lamasat International Limited;

(g)    Uranium Resources Limited; and 

(h)    Infinity Minerals and Resources Limited.

Mr Speaker, some of the minerals being prospected by these various mining houses are as follows:

(a)    Workman Mining Industries Zambia Limited is prospecting for uranium;

(b)    Era Power and Infrastructure (Z) Limited is prospecting for coal;

(c)    Property System Management Development Zambia Limited is prospecting for copper;

(d)    Donzam Investments Zambia Limited is prospecting for gold, copper, cobalt, nickel, manganese and uranium;

(e)    Xianghe Macrolink Mining (Z) Limited is prospecting for uranium;

(f)    Lamasat International Limited is prospecting for uranium and rare earth elements;

(g)    Infinity Minerals and Resources Limited is prospecting for coal and uranium.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, when prospecting licences are issued to the various companies, what other procedures are they supposed to follow as they go on the ground to prospect? Do the companies just go and start prospecting even when there is someone’s house built on the land on which they are to work or do they first have to go and see the council or the chief in such instances? I want to know the Government’s position regarding this matter (poking the table) because some of the companies which have been given licences have displaced people.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I thank the Member of Parliament for Gwembe, Hon. Ntundu, for that question, especially that today he is pointing at the ground. 


Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development is empowered by an Act to issue licences across the Republic of Zambia. When doing so, there are certain procedures which are supposed to be followed. The people issued with the licences are mandated to ensure that, first and foremost, they see the local chiefs who are custodians of land. As all this is happening, we begin to carry out environmental impact assessments and to ensure that no persons whatsoever are displaced without giving them an alternative.

Mr Speaker, you will be interested to know that, in fact, the Government issues licences everywhere, but that the tenements can only be in action once discussions are concluded with the relevant people in the affected community.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


346.     Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    whether the Government was aware of the poor workmanship by the Road Development Agency (RDA) on the Presidential Road Bridge currently under construction on the road connecting Ndeke to Mulenga Compound in Kitwe; and

(b)    if so, what measures had been taken to ensure adherence to the technical specifications.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the status of this bridge and is grateful to the hon. Member of Parliament for having brought photographs of the same bridge to the ministry. 

Mr Speaker, we have instructed the RDA to revisit the works on this bridge and, in addition to that, source for additional funds from the Treasury so that better works are done on the bridge.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the good response he has given me. The people of Kamfinsa are listening and will be waiting for the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to find a contractor with the capacity to come and work on the bridge. We are getting worried that the rains are almost …

Mr Speaker: What is your question?


Ms Kalima: Ask a question!

Mr Chishimba: I would like the hon. Minister …

Mr Speaker: I note that I have a lot of assistant speakers.


Mr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, that is the problem with my colleagues on the left. 

I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when a contractor with the capacity will be awarded the contract to start works on the bridge as we are getting closer to the onset of the rains. 

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, we plan to do so within the next two months.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, we have had a lot of complaints as regards poor workmanship on roads and bridges. A lot of money has been lost to that effect. Can the hon. Minister state whether there are penalties available for engineers that certify poor quality works.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Deputy Minister explained, in the case of the bridge in Kamfinsa Constituency, it was not a case of poor workmanship. However, when it comes to the poor workmanship that is taking place on various contracts, there are penalties that are supposed to be instituted. If people do not comply with the contract obligations, they are not even supposed to be paid. If they perpetually exhibit poor workmanship, they are supposed to be blacklisted. 

Sir, we are, therefore, trying to look at these issues seriously and review individual cases so that we can come up with the best solutions to them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clear the contradiction that he has created in my head. His deputy agreed with Hon. Chishimba that there was poor workmanship engaged on the bridge in question and that this is the reason they were going to source for more funds so that they could be in a position to find another contractor to do the works. Can he not help me harmonise his immediate past statement with what his deputy said.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member asked his question with the view that poor workmanship was employed when building this bridge. I want to state that it was the way the job was done that would make one think that way. To a layman, this might look like poor workmanship because only one wing was worked on while the other one was not completed. So, when looked at from the angle of the incomplete wing, it would appear as though it is poor workmanship. However, we are reviewing that to ensure that we finish the other part of the bridge, which was not completed, and the apron. Had it been a question of poor workmanship, even the other part of the bridge that was worked on would have collapsed. However, it is still holding. I insist that there was no poor workmanship and the job will be addressed as soon as possible, possibly in the next two months.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the term still remains ‘poor workmanship’. The stretch from Tateyoyo to Katunda is being patched with gravel …

Mr Speaker: Order!

What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Mutelo: The question is: Do we need to patch a tarmac road with gravel, as is being done on the stretch from Tateyoyo to Katunda?


Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I think the road the hon. Member has brought into this discussion is a different one. That is a new question. However, proper workmanship has to be employed on that road. We are not going to accept poor workmanship on any road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I want to know the contractor who is working on this road. The hon. Minister referred to the RDA. Therefore, is it the RDA or another contractor working on this road?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, this job was done by the RDA, through our regional offices.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that more money will be sourced from Government coffers in order for a good job to be done on this bridge. I would like to find out if this money that will be sourced is part of the original budget for this job or it is in addition to what was budgeted for earlier.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, this money is additional to what was previously budgeted.

I thank you, Sir.



347. Mr Mulomba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when Chivuna Road from Magoye Turn-Off via Chivuna Mission High School and Hospital and Nkonkola High School to Namaila in Magoye Constituency would be tarred;

(b)    when Munenga Road leading to Mwanachingwala Local Court would be graded; and

(c)    when Magoye Bridge, whose guard rails had been damaged, would  be rehabilitated.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we have no immediate plans to upgrade this road to bituminous standard. However, it is earmarked for grading under the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) in this year’s budget. The RRU intends to start work on this road by July, 2012. The limited equipment that we have is being used on the Monze/Chivuna Road.

Mr Speaker, the council and the District Commissioner’s Office have been advised by the RRU to prioritise this road for grading this year. Should the council and the District Commissioner’s Office do this in their revised submission to the RRU, it will be graded this year. 

Mr Speaker, the guard rails will be repaired, this year, at the cost of K60 million.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication said that the Government has no immediate plans to tar the Chivuna Road. Is the hon. Minister aware that this road leads to a very productive area in the constituency and that more than 1,000 vehicles use it everyday? Having said that …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ask your question.

Mr Mulomba: What criterion is used to select a road to be tarred? Secondly, ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you are supposed to put one question at a given time.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, since the hon. Member asked many questions, I will answer only one. I am aware of the points that he has advanced and that is why we are going to grade it.

I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, this is a ring road in a rural area. Ring roads should not be a preserve of urban areas such as Lusaka. This road stretches from Magoye and passes through Chivuna and Monze. I want to know why it has not been given priority, because it passes through a productive area, unlike ring roads in Lusaka which are only meant to de-congest traffic.

Mr Mukanga:  Mr Speaker, I thank my friend, the hon. Engineer for that important question. This road has not been prioritised for years. However, we have put a plan in place to grade it first, then, review the issue and see how best it can be worked on. At the moment, we are going to grade it so that it is passable to ensure that goods and services are transported.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I put it to the hon. Minister that this road has been graded several times since independence. I want him to tell me when the Government will come out of the mode of thinking that Lusaka is Zambia and Zambia is Lusaka in terms of infrastructure development.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, Lusaka is not Zambia. I come from the Copperbelt and the residents there have the same sentiments. We, as the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, are trying to ensure that we take development to every part of Zambia. Every corner will receive development under this Government. We are not going to treat certain parts of the country more sacred than others. We will try to address development based on priority and we will give every Zambian what he/she deserves.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, during the campaigns in Magoye, the PF promised the people there to tar the Chivuna Road? Was it just making this promise to the people when there was no budget attached to doing this work?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I have never seen a political party campaigning with a budget.


Mr Mukanga: The campaign promises are made and then you give the people what you promised after they have voted for you. All those who voted for us will be given what we promised them.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: If the people want to get something, let them vote for us. We will give them the development they need. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We are geared to give you development if we promised it to you. When we do not promise you, we will not give you development. However, the PF Government has promised the nation that, as the Government in power, it will execute the best that the people have not seen in their life time. For those people we are promising now, vote for us, then, we will give you development.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to get affirmation from the hon. Minister …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I rise on what I consider to be a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication in order to have the audacity to tell this august House and the nation that the PF Government shall deliver to the people that voted for it, and, therefore, create an impression that those who do not vote for it will not get anything from the promises that it makes, especially at this particular time when there are by-elections?

Sir, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

My ruling is that as this issue is further debated, the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication should clarify that position.

Could the hon. Member for Kalabo Central continue, please.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister affirm that there are more road works done in Lusaka than in most rural areas of Zambia.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to state that I was responding to a question that I was asked on a promise we made. The hon. Member for Namwala was asking why we were only making promises and not delivering. In my response, I said that when we are campaigning, no political party goes round with a budget. However, when we campaign, we promise the people to do certain things for them. I also said that where we went, as PF, we told the people to vote for us because we were going to fulfill our promises. Thus, we have fulfilled the promises we made to the people who voted for us. For those who have not …


Mr Mukanga: Yes, that is what I am saying. 

Maybe, those who did not vote for us are the people who are singing that we have not done anything for them because they did not vote for us. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mukanga: However, I want to insist that I was responding to that question on campaigns …

Hon. Government Member: And a promise.

Mr Mukanga: … and the promise we made. We, as PF, promise and fulfill our promises. We do not just promise and leave it there. I do not want us to have the impression that when we promise, we do not execute. 

Sir, regarding the question that was asked by the hon. Member on whether we are aware that most of the roads have been worked on in Lusaka, yes, on most of the roads, that was the case in the past. However, we want to correct that situation and ensure that even our people in the rural parts of Zambia benefit because they are citizens. They also need to get an equal share of the cake and we are going to ensure that is done. We are going to roll out development to every part of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister then confirm that the PF Government, as it goes round campaigning, does not mean to be consistent with its promises, especially that on this particular road, it said it would tar it with immediate effect. What has happened to the urgency of working on this road?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, although I do not want to be drawn into campaign issues because hon. Members will start complaining, I want to state that the PF has been campaigning for a long time. I used to sit where hon. Members of the Opposition are sitting now and whilst there I used to say that if the MMD Government did not work very hard, it would go. At that time, we had only two PF hon. Members of Parliament. People did not understand because wherever we went, we campaigned and were able to fulfill our promises. Since people saw our track record of fulfilling the promises we made during campaigns, …


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … they made sure that the MMD was removed from power. Now, the people have put the PF in Government because we are capable of executing all the promises we make.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We have prioritised the promises we made and we will execute them. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We, as the PF, have the mandate to rule this country and no other party does. Since this is the case, we will execute the promises and no one should be jittery. I would like to urge the hon. Members to be patient. They will see that things will work out.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, can I hear from the hon. Minister …

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this nation by saying that when the PF Government promises, it delivers when it has not delivered on the windfall tax and Barotseland Agreement on which it promised? What is the hon. Minister saying?

Sir, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The position of the Speaker is that as the hon. Minister continues debating these issues, he should take into account those observations.

Could the hon. Member for Gwembe continue, please.


Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that tarring the Chivuna/Magoye Road will create an easier link even to the new district that has been created in Chikankata via Kansangwa where this road connects with the famous Bottom Road that passes through my constituency?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to address the issue of promises.

Sir, the PF Government promised that it was going to ensure that the Zambia Telecommunications Corporation (ZAMTEL) would be repossessed when voted into power. That has happened. We said we were going to …


Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Mukanga: I am answering the question. 

Mr Speaker, we said that we were going to reduce taxes and we made sure that the threshold was reduced. What promises do you want fulfilled? We said we were going to look at the Constitution promptly and that is what we are doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: In short, we are doing everything that we promised to do and we will continue to do so. Do not distract us because we are on the right course. We will do everything we can to ensure that we fulfill our promises.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: If you want to be part of the success story, join us so that we move together.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: It is important that we move together because the people of Zambia are in a hurry to see sustainable development. They are not interested in us taking the money elsewhere other than that.

Hon. Government Members: Bury the money!

Mr Mukanga: No, we are not going to bury any money. We want the money to be used on goods and services so that the people benefit. 

Mr Speaker, we are looking at everything, including the fuel pricing …

Hon. Government Member: It has already been reduced!

Mr Mukanga: Fuel pricing was reduced. By the way, even the 154 litre which was part of the storage facilities, was also done away with. So, you can see that we are doing a lot. It is important that the people of Zambia continue to trust people who are capable of delivering services.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Zambia will be a changed nation if we continue with the PF Government. We are here because the people of Zambia are seeing the results and supporting us. We are also asking the politicians to support us. We mean well, just like the MMD Government used to say.


Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when I was on the Opposition side, I used to tell the hon. Members of Parliament from the MMD that if they did not deliver, the people of Zambia would remove them from power and that is what happened because they failed to deliver. We are not going to be removed from power because we are delivering.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the bottom line is delivery.

Mr Speaker: Address the Chair!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are with the people. The people want to see results and we are showing them the results slowly. I am sure they have seen a change. The MMD Government used to talk about the Formula 1 roads, but if you went around Lusaka, today, you would see that there are a lot of roads that have been worked on in Lusaka. We have made sure that things change. Very soon, people will see a Post Code System in Zambia which they have not seen before. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, we will be looking at physical addresses in the nation so that we give proper addresses to houses. People in Kalingalinga also want to be receiving mail using their physical addresses. Can the people of Kalingalinga receive mail through their physical addresses at the moment? They cannot. Therefore, we are addressing that issue promptly so that things can change. We are changing a lot of things, including payments being made in dollars. These things were stopped and, now, we are trying to address all of them. This is a working Government. It is not just going to sit idly. Therefore, you should not disturb us. Please, give us time. 

Sir, we are also aware that if the Chivuna Road is worked on, it will bring a lot of revenue and change the lives of our people. That is why we are trying to put a mechanism in place to address the situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!



348. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Kashikishi/Chienge Road would be rehabilitated;

(b)    how much money was estimated to be spent on the project;

(c)    whether a contact had already been awarded; and

(d)    if so, who the contractors were.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the RDA, is in the process of awarding the tender for a feasibility study and detailed engineering designs, including the preparation of tender documents, for the road from Nchelenge to Kaputa. This includes the section from Kashikishi to Chienge. The award of the tender for the services is supposed to be concluded by the end of this month and the study is expected to run for nine months. 

Mr Speaker, the cost of the works will be determined once the study has been concluded. The contract, which is to be awarded at the end of this month, is for the feasibility studies but, currently, we are undertaking emergency works on this road and on which we are spending K1, 430,237,518.50.

Mr Speaker, since the works have not commenced, there is no contractor on the road. However, we expect to announce the consulting engineering firms for the services by the end of this month.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, what is the progress on the emergency rehabilitation works between Mansa and Chienge? How far have they gone?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to say that, so far, emergency works have been done on the Mansa/Kashikishi/Chienge Road. We have managed to work on the culverts around the Kabwe/Katenda Road. Works should commence on the Mansa/Kashikishi Road in July. The scope of works will include pothole patching and resealing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, as far as I remember, there have been many studies before and that is a very important provincial link. Could we now have a guarantee that the road will be worked on?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am sure the hon. Member is aware that whenever there is a feasibility study and a period of two years elapses before the works start, we need to conduct another study. So, this time when we carry out the study, we will definitely execute the works.

I thank you, Sir.


349. Mrs Mazoka (Pemba) asked the Minister of Finance and National planning how much money, in United States Dollars, the Government raised, in the form of taxes from gold exports from 2008 to-date.

The Deputy Minister of Finance (Mr Sampa): Mr Speaker, during the period in question, the Government raised US$24.3 million in the form of taxes from the export of gold.

I thank you, Sir.




Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Labour, Youth and Sport for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 19th June, 2012.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, concerned about the situation of youth unemployment and the negative impact it has on their livelihood, your Committee resolved to carry out a study of the development of youth entrepreneurship in Zambia. 

After examining the various submissions from witnesses, it has become very clear to your Committee that the development of youth entrepreneurship in Zambia is facing a lot of challenges. There is, therefore, an urgent need for the Government to intervene and ensure that the youths are able to successfully partake in entrepreneurship development to better their livelihood and positively contribute to national development.

Mr Speaker, your Committee has established that the structure of the Ministry of Youth and Sport is inadequate. There are no district youth officers who are supposed to co-ordinate development projects at the district level. In addition, the youth at the district level lack the information and support required for developing enterprises. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee further notes that the budgetary allocation to the Ministry of Youth and Sport is very minimal, considering the magnitude of youth challenges. This hampers the ministry from effectively addressing youth challenges in enterprise development. Your Committee further observed that the National Youth Development Council (NYDC), which was established to register and co-ordinate youth development activities in the country, has no national representation. The NYDC only has a small secretariat in Lusaka operating under a lot of stress due to inadequate finances and an outdated legal base. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee recommends the expansion of the structure of the Ministry of Youth and Sport to allow for the employment of district youth officers who will be able to monitor and co-ordinate youth development activities at the district level. Your Committee also recommends an increase in the budgetary allocation to the ministry to allow it to effectively carry out programmes and create an impact on the promotion of youth entrepreneurship in Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee further recommends the amendment of the National Youth Development Council Act to allow for the revision and expansion of its operations. Your Committee also recommends an increase in funding to the council. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that the non-inclusion of entrepreneurship skills and programmes in schools, skills training centres, colleges and universities entails that the youth are expecting to be employed upon completion of their formal education. Therefore, creating employment of their own only comes as a second option. As a result, minimal effort is placed on this very important life skill. 

Sir, your Committee recommends the review of the school curriculum to include life skills and entrepreneurship development. This will allow the youth to gain adequate information and appreciation of the benefits of self-employment. Your Committee further recommends the institutionalisation of entrepreneurship training in the teachers’ training programmes as this will ensure sustainability in building a critical mass of entrepreneurship trainers. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee was also made aware of the fact that most skills training centres in the country have dilapidated structures with inadequate and outdated training equipment. It, therefore, recommends the rehabilitation of skills training centres and the provision of adequate and modern skills training equipment. The above should be adequately dealt with before the building of new skills training centres. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that the youth have poor access to low cost financial capital and information on available opportunities. This is a major drawback because young entrepreneurs have major challenges in accessing finance from commercial banks due to collateral and other stringent rules and regulations attached. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF) has been put on hold pending forensic investigation. Your Committee, therefore, recommends an expeditious investigation that will help to review the operations of the fund and allow for more youths to benefit from it. In addition, it recommends the raising of the youth empowerment fund from the current K11 billion to K100 billion. This will allow more youths to access the money. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee also recommends that the disbursement of funds for youth entrepreneurship be preceded by adequate training in the basics of entrepreneurship. Mentoring of the youth should form an integral part of the training and the private sector should be encouraged to play a more active role in the mentoring of youths by offering tax rebates for organisations that support youth entrepreneurs. Only when this has been adequately dealt with can the youth fully participate in entrepreneurship to improve their livelihood and contribute towards national development.  

Sir, in conclusion, allow me to express my gratitude to you for the guidance given to your Committee during its deliberations and for appointing us to serve on your Committee. I also want to thank all the stakeholders for their submissions to your Committee. I further wish to congratulate the Members of your Committee for working tirelessly to come up with this report. 

Finally, I wish to extend my gratitude, on behalf of your Committee, to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for facilitating our meetings and tours and for the invaluable advice and services rendered during the year. 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.  

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later.

Mr Ntundu: Now, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion, I would like to firstly congratulate the mover for the able manner in which he has presented the Motion. 
Mr Speaker, allow me to point out one issue that has been of great concern to your Committee during its study of youth entrepreneurship. Your Committee has noted the increase in the number of both male and female street youths. The youth can be seen openly sniffing glue, begging and indulging in petty crime. This is a ticking time bomb that calls for urgent intervention. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee had the privilege of undertaking a study tour of Rwanda where the Government, in co-operation with non-governmental organisations (NGOs), faith-based organisations, local communities and individual families have seriously prioritised the rehabilitation and skills training of delinquent youths. Your Committee visited Iwawa Island on Lake Kivu on the border between the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Rwanda where the youths are undergoing a one-year rehabilitation and skills training programme. 
Sir, the programme encompasses psycho-social counselling, drug addiction rehabilitation, basic literacy, entrepreneurship and training in a skill of their choice. Only after a successful assessment, are the youths allowed to graduate from the programme and return to their communities. The youths are then supported with employment or grants and a tool kit to establish an enterprise. Through the Rwandan National Youth Development Council, the youth continue to receive psycho-social support.
Mr Speaker, with the example that I have given, your Committee urges the Government to pay particular attention to the rehabilitation and skills training of youths who, due to lack of employment and entrepreneurship opportunities, have found themselves loitering on the streets and engaging in criminal activities.
Sir, your Committee notes that the Zambia National Service (ZNS) skills training centres, such as Chiwoko in Katete and the one in Kitwe, which were meant for the rehabilitation and skills training of street youths, have inadequate or outdated skills training equipment. Your Committee also notes that no works have been carried out to rehabilitate the Chishimba ZNS Camp in Kasama, which has been earmarked to be a youth rehabilitation and skills training centre. The camp is still in a dilapidated state. 
Mr Speaker, your Committee strongly recommends the revitalisation of the programme meant to remove youths from the streets by offering them an alternative to acquire skills, improve their livelihood and contribute towards national development.

Sir, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor. I wish to start by thanking the Chairperson of the Committee for the excellent work they did as a Committee.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Mulusa: Sir, indeed, there is a huge challenge with our youth. You may realise that the youth constitute about 60 per cent of the Zambian population. The question is: What type of human capital are we developing going forward, if our youths do not have the skills to work and are not picking up the experience?

The African Union (AU), Mr Speaker, is fast integrating the continent. This means that we will open up the borders and people will flow wherever they want to go and where there are opportunities. Unfortunately, our youth will be faced with unprecedented competition because they will not be considered for jobs for which they are not qualified. As a nation, we are dying and need to do something serious about it.

Mr Speaker, we need to dwell on the excellent recommendations that the Chairperson read out, that, however, need to be made practical. We need to partner with the Opposition, the Government, the private sector and everybody. We need to hold hands on this one because it is a serious challenge.

Sir, there is a way in which the Government can start leading us towards this end. The Government is the biggest single institution in this country that gives out opportunities in business. For instance, it awards contractors to construct roads and banks business by opening accounts. Therefore, the Government can start by putting up a criterion for qualifying for Government business. One criterion is for the companies to demonstrate what they are doing in terms of assisting us with this youth challenge. For instance, companies can make arrangements for students from colleges and other institutions of learning to work during holidays and be paid a small allowance, or give opportunities to Grade 12s to work for a few hours in companies like Shoprite, during weekends, so that they start picking up skills they will need later in life.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, we also need to grow the balance sheet of the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) so that it is able to establish incubators throughout the country where youths with ideas can go and start their businesses. They should be guided until a time when they graduate and are able to run these businesses in the business world.

Sir, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education also needs to come on board. Our education system is designed in such a way that we only prepare somebody for work.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, if that was not the case, at the time that we privatised close to 300 companies, we should have seen all those former chief executives starting up companies similar to what they used to run. Unfortunately, all of them either sat at home or were busy looking for jobs all over the shore. It shows that there is something seriously wrong with our education system.

Mr Speaker, there is a way in which the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education can come on board and introduce entrepreneurship courses in the curriculum right from Grade 1. This can be done and is being done in other countries. Let me give an example of my favourite country that I usually refer to and this is South Africa.


Mr Mulusa: There is what they call entrepreneurship day for all grades, starting from Grade 1 to 12. For instance, on a particular Friday, the Grade 1s are asked to demonstrate how they can run any business. Your Grade 1 child will tell you to buy him/her a variety of sweets for sell on the entrepreneurship day. Afterwards, your child will come back and say, “You gave me R20 and I bought sweets worth this much and sold them for R25. Here is your twenty rand.” This indicates that a Grade 1 is learning from a tender age. We can also see these things in other countries like India. Indians are the best traders. There is something that they are doing for them to be that way.

So, Mr Speaker, we need to adopt this report and ensure that the recommendations that have been given here are studied by the ministry, which should dig deeper, to come up with strategies on how to meet these challenges.

Mr Speaker, with these very few words from a humble man, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, my colleague has debated on the youth, but let me talk about sport. I cannot see Hon. Kambwili and I do not know who the Acting Minister of Youth and Sport is …

Mr Speaker: Address the Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima: Thank you, Sir. Allow me to make a few remarks whilst Hon. Mubukwanu is listening.

Mr Speaker, I have read through the report and would like to support it.  The first point I have identified is the item on management and development of football vis-à-vis the poor sports infrastructure. I believe that, indeed, the observation by the Committee is correct. There is a need for us to enhance the development of sports infrastructure. In the past, we have failed to host some important functions, especially regarding sports, because of poor infrastructure. However, I want to believe that there is hope because, if you look at the recent past, there have been new developments in terms of sports infrastructure. Although Hon. Masebo is not here, probably, this a matter on which I would have used the phrases ‘the old Government’ and ‘the new Government’. The old Government demonstrated the political will to improve sports infrastructure. You can see the magnificent stadium in Ndola.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: You can see the upcoming stadium in Lusaka.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Even before the construction of these stadia, we went onto the reconstruction and rehabilitation of stadia in the country. A few examples are Nkoloma and Independence stadia and the Olympic Youth Development Centre. So, we were on the right path and it is my sincere hope that this new Government will follow the footsteps of the previous one.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: We had a very clear vision that Livingstone, for example, needs a proper and modern stadium. More so, as the Government relocates the provincial administration from Livingstone to Choma, there is a great need to fill up the gap. I want to assure my colleagues on your right that sport is a good industry and it can bring development. We shall measure the Ruling Party’s performance by what it will do in Livingstone. The report is very clear that new sports infrastructure in Livingstone must be constructed. We all agree that Livingstone offers the best opportunity for boosting tourism in this country. This is if you look at its proximity to the great nation, by African standard, South Africa in comparison to that of Ndola or Lusaka. So, that stadium can provide the opportunity for internationally well respected teams to come and play in Zambia.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the other point I want to drive home is the restructuring of football management in the country. In the report, it has been mentioned that there is a need to introduce a national league. The report has gone further to indicate that sports administrators need to hold a national indaba to discuss this. That is why I was asking for the acting hon. Minister of Youth and Sport so that I bring such issues to his attention. I think there is a need for us to look into this issue more critically. 

Sir, if you recall, not long ago, the wrangles that were in the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) were partly because of the introduction of a national league. While this is a good concept, I think we need to clear the personality clashes that we witnessed in FAZ. The International Federation of Football Associations (FIFA) has actually directed that we introduce a national league and most African countries have actually done so. Malawi and Tanzania are just on the verge of introducing this aspect. So, we risk remaining the only country without a national league because small countries, and I am sorry for calling them that, like Swaziland and Lesotho have already implemented this. 

So, Mr Speaker, for me, it is not about a national indaba or lack of money. I think we need to have the political will and resolve the outstanding issues between the FAZ administration and its colleagues in the national league. FIFA has already trained staff to implement the introduction of national leagues across the world. So, there is a need for us to move fast and to separate FAZ from the administration of the league. FAZ should concentrate on the national football team. Looking after the affairs of the national team is a mammoth task and, indeed, FAZ needs to do that.

Mr Speaker, the other point I want to talk about is the financial empowerment of the National Sports Council of Zambia (NSCZ) and FAZ. From my experience, I want to believe that even Parliament has not done enough to support the Ministry of Youth and Sport. If you go to the Yellow Book and look at the funding to the NSCZ and FAZ, there is nothing to write home about. That is why, when you go to the NSCZ, immediately you enter, you are greeted by poor looking furniture and environment because the funding is extremely low. For example, you can see that, even in the current Yellow Book, we only allocated K200 million to FAZ. What can you do with K200 million? I recall that when I was in FAZ, in 2004, to host a game like the ones between Zambia and Ghana; and Zambia and Senegal, you needed not less than K500 million for just one game. So, indeed, that is why FAZ needs empowerment in terms of resources. There is a need for us, as Parliamentarians, to take a critical and clear look at the way we fund the Ministry of Youth and Sport. Otherwise, football or sport in general is not likely to move forward. There is a need for us to support this ministry.

Mr Speaker, the other point I observed in the report is on support to football clubs. I think we are among the very few countries that do not support the clubs that participate in continental tournaments. We leave it to them to fend for themselves financially, but we want to win at the national level. Where do players come from? They come from clubs that we have neglected. I recall, again, in 1996, when I was the Vice-Chairperson for the Zambia State Insurance Corporation Football Club (ZAMSURE) and the club was participating in a continental competition, the amount that we spent was colossal. When this matter came to Parliament, we were really lambasted. Hon. Members of Parliament thought it was wasteful expenditure. 

Mr Speaker, some hon. Members will recall that this idea of clubs fending for themselves has actually brought embarrassment to the nation. At one stage, we were a laughing stock because Kabwe Warriors Football Club had to travel to Tanzania by road. At another time, Red Arrows Football Club withdrew from a continental competition, if I am not mistaken. If you go to even small countries like Botswana, the Government supports the clubs that participate in continental cups. In 1996, when we walloped Senegal in South Africa, it went back to the drawing board and the government came in came in with full support and one of the resolutions included supporting clubs financially. Today, Senegal is a big power in football circles. So, I agree with the report that there is a need for us to support the clubs that participate in continental tournaments.

Mr Speaker, finally, although there is a missing page in my report, I want to urge the Head of State that there is a need for him to personally make himself available at some of these international matches.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: I am aware that he has been delegating the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport and His Honour the Vice-President who have been very handy. However, I want to believe that a presidential appearance at a tournament brings morale not only to the players, but also to the whole nation. This is one industry the Government can take advantage of. If there is one industry that you can call a unifying factor, it is sport. I want to believe that what we saw when the President went to officially open the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium is the first indication of better things to come. I am aware that Hon. Kambwili has been right on the spot. He has been pushing and negotiating for companies to support football. However, I want the current President to emulate his predecessor in showing love and commitment to this sport.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mbulakulima: I look forward to the day when the Head of State will be physically present at the stadium watching a game.
Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me this opportunity to contribute to the Report of the Committee on Labour, Youth and Sport. I also wish to thank the mover and seconder of the Motion for their contributions. Unfortunately, as I was going through the report, I realised that the pages were not properly arranged because my report starts on page 4, but generally it is very good. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee made several recommendations regarding several concerns which were raised in the report. I agree with your Committee that in order for the youths to take centre stage in running the affairs of this country, they need enough funding so that they can develop good entrepreneurial skills. I also agree with your Committee that the youths are actually a ticking time bomb whose concerns need to be addressed.

Mr Speaker, the report highlighted the need for the Government to rehabilitate the ZNS     skills training centres. We require to rehabilitate the centres to a standard unlike that of concentration camps. The youths need to take centre stage in the development of this country. Efforts to let the youths take centre stage must be made even in this House. When I look on your right, I realise that there is something missing there. The President has powers to nominate eight hon. Members of Parliament. Sadly, he only managed to pick his old friends.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: None of them is a youth. We need to move forward. According to the report, the Rwandan Government has seats in Parliament for the youths. The law that gives the President power to nominate eight hon. Members was not designed by mistake. I think that the eight hon. Members are supposed to be drawn from amongst people who might find it difficult to make it to this House. Among those that are disadvantaged are the youths. Unfortunately, the President did not nominate anyone to represent the youths. I only hope that, before 2016, one of the old friends will be dropped …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: … to pave way for the youths to be included among the nominated eight hon. Members. 

Mr Speaker, the youths can only take centre stage in running the affairs of this country if those in leadership stop encouraging those who batter them from continue doing so. Those who brutalise youths when they try to demonstrate are not supposed to be commended. The youths in this country need to be protected.

Mr Speaker, I also agree that the youths need a platform through which they can participate in the country’s development process. We want to see a situation where youths will be provided for with a proper policy framework and not just the President ordering the hon. Minister of Youth and Sports to come up with a plan for the youth on Youth Day. We should not put the plight of the youths aside and only remember it on Youth Day. I agree with the Committee’s recommendation that the K11 billion set aside for the youths should be increased to K100 billion. I do not agree with the way of doing things of those who have delayed the K11 billion that is supposed to be given to the youths. Even though the money was approved by this House, some months ago, it still has not been released to date. When will the K11 billion be disbursed because the youths have been waiting for it for far too long? What has caused the delay? The PF Government promised the people of Zambia to put money in their pockets within ninety days. The money for the youths is not being disbursed despite the ninety-day period being over.   

Mr Speaker, I agree with your Committee that the hon. Minister should not be allowed to appoint board members to the NYDC. Let the board be made up of people representing certain institutions. The running of the council has always been confused by the appointment of cadres and partisan people to its board. I think the only time when we shall properly support and empower our youths is the moment we shall move away from running the council along partisan lines.

Mr Speaker, according to the report, the NYDC has some debts. I think the council will be run better when we find other institutions which can fund it and move away from the trend of being its main financiers

Mr Speaker, the provision of entrepreneurship skills training for the youth is very important. We do not only need to move in the direction of providing physical skills, but also those to do with information and computer technology (ICT). I think we will be behind if we continue to emphasise physical skills in our training at the expense of that to do with ICTs. In today’s world, even artisans need to have knowledge regarding ICTs.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to also say a few things about your report. 

First of all, let me sincerely thank you, Mr Speaker, the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for acknowledging and approving the formation of the Conservation Council because it is through those efforts that this august House was able to be represented at the first ever Rio +20 World Summit of Legislators. I have deliberately mentioned this before we submit a report to you because the report will be accompanied by a petition which came from the International Youth Organisation (IYO). 
This is a petition in which the youth are urging legislators all over the world to ensure that they pass pieces of legislation that will guarantee the future of the youth all over the world. Mr Speaker, in this petition, the youth are requesting us to pass legislation that will ensure that we preserve some of our natural capital for their use in the future.

Mr Speaker, coming back to your report, it was nice to listen to Hon. Mbulakulima talk about the development of sports infrastructure. He should have also gone further to talk about skills training institutions for the youth. This report is very clear on the importance of skills training institutions. They are a deliberate arrangement to allow our youth to learn skills which could empower them so that they could either get employment or create their own employment. However, it seems that these facilities were neglected for a long time. It is, therefore, very unfortunate that we are, today, talking about re-equipping and rehabilitating these important institutions.

Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to my colleague, the hon. Deputy Minister of Muchinga, to ensure that he quickly works with the Ministry of Youth and Sport in rehabilitating the only training centre that we have in Chinsali District. We do not want a situation where people who come to help develop our province come with skilled people from outside the province. I will be very happy to see my people from Kabanda, Nkulungwe and Matumbo being trained so that they could be given a chance to develop their province. We do not want them to be trooping to the urban centres for training. So, hon. Deputy Minister, view this as an urgent task. 

Mr Speaker, I would have also loved the report to further recommend that we need skills training institutions right in every constituency. This is the best way to go because our youth in all the constituencies need these facilities. I totally agree that we need to prioritise their rehabilitation, but without forgetting that we need to find a way of having centres in each constituency. 

Mr Speaker, whilst I appreciate the effort of your Committee, I am surprised that it was only able to tour some reformatory institutions in Rwanda, but not our local ones. The Committee missed out on the opportunity to make comparisons in its recommendations. You could have done better, Mr Chairperson, had you considered doing that. I had the chance to see some of the videos which were shot by one of the Committee members. The work being done in Rwanda can encourage us to do more. 

Mr Speaker, as regards the issue of the Youth Development Fund, we have been hearing about it for some time. Unfortunately, I do not even know which youth groups have been able to access it. I am, in fact, much more concerned with the youths in our rural constituencies with regard to their access to the Youth Development Fund. It is very important that the hon. Minister re-looks at the operations of the fund critically. That is what we are waiting for. We do not want the business-as-usual kind of dealing with matters like this.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: We know that you are capable of doing better than what was done before. Your report has also talked about the CEEF. We know that this fund was, unfortunately, disbursed on the basis of political patronage.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kampyongo: This is very clear. That is why the youth who were able to access this fund cannot even pay back their loans. What was happening was that, due to patronage, people would write business proposals for a youth who could not even assimilate and understand the plan. The youth would just use the plan to obtain money. The biggest qualification was political patronage. We know, for instance, that some of them were just selling their merchandise in tuntembas. They cannot pay back their loans because they did not even understand what the fund was all about. I am, therefore, urging the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry to make sure that the relevant procedures are tightened and the people are made to understand the importance of this fund.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to make an appeal to our leaders. I am a very happy hon. Member of Parliament because I know that some of our parents who were here some years ago made sure that they nurtured us so that we could also have an opportunity to be here. In Bemba we say that imiti ikula empanga. 

Hon. UPND Members: Translate!

Mr Kampyongo: This simply means that the growing trees are the ones that later come to form a forest. Therefore, I would like to appeal to politicians who are fond of manipulating my fellow youths for their selfish political expediency to stop doing so. They must know that we are not there to be used as their violent political tools. We want people to start coming up with sustainable plans for the youth. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: It is very unfortunate that, over the years, we have had people being glorified when we knew that they were just militia men recruiting young people as their militants. Hon. Kakoma is here. Not long ago, we saw how his leg was ripped open by youths. Is that the meaningful use of the youth?

Hon. Member: No!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I can see some youthful colleagues on the other side of the House. It is time, ladies and gentlemen, that we, as youths who have the opportunity to be here, started advising the people who are involved in such activities. We know that some people are actually supposed to be taken to the Hague.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I do appreciate the sentiments that are being raised by Hon. Kampyongo. However, is he not aware that his own political party used certain youths to beat up those who were against the PF and that those who were convicted were pardoned by the President as victims of war?


Mr Speaker: My ruling is that this debate should not degenerate to the levels which are currently being proposed. I have cautioned before that we should not debate ourselves. This report is supposed to provoke discussion around and against policy considerations. I think we need to elevate this debate to those levels. So, I will not encourage an inquisition into past events about who did what. Let us, as far as possible, confine ourselves to the issues that have been provoked by the report itself. It has been well-received generally. We should not devalue it by beginning to discuss insignificant political incidents.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you so much for that guidance. I am sorry if I have been misunderstood. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: However, I was just trying to state that, as youths, we should be appreciated in a more meaningful way so that we also grow up to be leaders of this nation.

Mr Speaker, lastly, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education − I know that he has been making efforts in ensuring that our youths in the institutions of higher learning stop engaging themselves in violence – to ensure that administrators in these institutions communicate effectively with our youth colleagues, which they fail to do sometimes. We, as youths, are very easy to deal with, if you communicate effectively. However, what I see is that most often than not, this aspect lacks. 

Mr Speaker, I followed the build-up to the disturbances in Kitwe. Just by listening to the sentiments which were being raised by the students and the administration, you could easily see the tension building-up. On one hand, the students were expressing themselves while on the other, the administration had taken a stance. I think that way of handling things is not encouraging. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to ensure that the administrations in these institutions of higher learning bridge-up. They should change the mode of communicating to our youths in these institutions. I do not think that youths intentionally engage in violent activities because they know that they have to stick to their programmes, and I do not think it is in their programme to do so.

Mr Speaker, lastly, I appeal to the hon. Minister to continue with his efforts of going from one secondary school to another up to the institutions of higher learning. 

Sir, with these few remarks, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me a chance to debate the Motion on the Floor regarding the youths. If I am not a youth, then, I am close to being one.


Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I will focus my debate on the youths from urban areas although the situation of the youths in rural areas is pathetic. 

Sir, during my time, we went to school and were taught how to use a needle. Today, those things in the rural set-up are no more. In a rural set-up, it is very difficult to go as far as Grade 9. There is a large number of people who do not have skills, not even that of how to read and write. 

Sir, I am glad the report is on labour, youth and sport. When it comes to house servants, you go for us in rural areas.


Mr Mutelo: When we come here to urban areas, we find it difficult to do the house servant’s job because the world would be too advanced for us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! They become user friendly!


Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I support the report for mentioning that the presence of those handling or dealing with the youths must be felt not only at district level, but also in the typical rural set up like Washishi. When you talk of sports or anything going on here, there is no one from Washishi, but is it true that we cannot have someone who can kick a ball from Washishi?


Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, we have total potential. We have a lot of untapped talent. You are using some of the people who have been over-used when we have a lot of the unused. People are just dying with their talents to the disadvantage of the country.

Sir, the majority of the people who are in managerial positions hail from rural areas and they are only in those positions because they had a chance to learn. I am, therefore, glad that the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is mentioned in the report. Lukulu West has one teacher to teach from Grade 1 to Grade 9. What type of youths are we bringing up for tomorrow? I am glad that I am in this House. I see pupils in our galleries, but how many have come from the rural set up? We must have a heart for rural youths.

Sir, I have seen something touching on marriages in the report. Yes, if the youths have nothing to do, they will end up engaging themselves in early marriages because, in the rural set up, if someone is a mwalanjo …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: Order! 

Please, communicate in an official language, otherwise we will lose you in the process.

Could you continue, please.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, a mwalanjo is a girl youth who has reached puberty stage.


Hon. Members: A moye!

Mr Mutelo: Sir, as long as one has reached that stage and there is no teacher at school to teach them, the only entertainment is marriage.


Mr Speaker: Order!

I am not too sure whether an important institution such as a marriage is meant for entertainment.


Mr Speaker: Could the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the report has touched on early marriages and some of these things mentioned contribute to early marriages. The youths have nothing to do other than get married. 

Sir, I pray that we will not only end at recommendations, but also implement because this will speak louder. In my opening remarks in this House, I said that “Talk much and do less, doom.”


Mr Speaker: Order!

I suppose you are referring to your maiden speech.


Mr Speaker: Could you continue, please. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the other statement was “Talk less and do more, boom.”


Mr Mutelo: Sir, I would like to urge those tasked to deal with youths to consider the rural youths. We talk of having stadiums in Lusaka, but there is nothing in Washishi.


Mr Mutelo: We talk of all sorts of advanced technology, but we do not have them in our rural set ups. 

Sir, I pray that, indeed, the report is adopted with not only a consideration of the urban youths, but also rural youths. The potential is there. We were all equally made by God our father.

Hon. Members: Amen!

Mr Mutelo: With those few remarks, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I was mesmerised by the Washishi Member of Parliament, …


Dr Phiri: … the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West. I cannot agree with him more.

Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the Chairperson of your Committee for a wonderful report. I also want to thank the seconder as well as the hon. Members of Parliament who have given us an insight into the many ways we should progress with this gigantic problem of youth unemployment. I know, the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga has rightly said that this is a ticking time bomb and it is time it took centre stage. I cannot agree more. 

Mr Speaker, let me hasten to mention that, in many ways, maybe, it is my lucky day that I stand to speak on behalf of the Government on this important report because I hold the portfolio of Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. The genesis of the youths and unemployment can be traced to my portfolio because the education system, as you know, is pyramidal in structure. It is broad at the base and as you go higher, it becomes narrower and narrower. Since it is a pyramid, yearly, it pushes out 300,000 young people out of the various levels of the pyramid. If these 300,000 youths came out of the pyramid with skills per year, the problem would not have been a big one. Both children in the pyramid and those who have been pushed out have one thing in common which is, they have no skills at all. That is the problem that the ministry is grappling with currently. I am glad to report that as we embark on expanding this pyramid, maybe, sometime soon, it will become a rectangle. We need to focus on these young men and women who come out of this pyramid with no chance of self-employment or getting a job.

Mr Speaker, I was delighted to hear of the Rwanda experience and I think we can, probably, learn lessons from such a small country. Let me hasten to mention that the Government has not slept. It does not have, as you hear, no plan. It has a plan.


Dr Phiri: The Government is aware of all these things. I mentioned that just to excite a few people on your left, Mr Speaker.


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, as you are aware, this Government has a definite stand on the youth and unemployment for one good reason. The PF Government is a product of youth votes. Whether you like it or not, it is the young people of this country who voted for the PF. While the others were still dreaming about whether Mr Michael Sata could be President and whether Dr Phiri could go to Parliament, the young people decided that they would experiment with the PF. Therefore, there is no way the PF will disappoint them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I give this assurance because we have already started working on the various areas and legislations that will make the lives of our young people a little more bearable. It may not come today, but it will definitely come. I thank your Committee because it is as if it was saying, “PF, double your efforts.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: You are back to your plan?


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, without a plan, the PF would not have been voted for. The biggest plan is the manifesto. The manifesto is very clear on what we want to do about youths in terms of unemployment. I am glad that the report has mentioned some aspects which we are already working on such as the structure of the ministry, the budgetary allocation to the ministry, the expansion of the structure of the ministry so that we have district representation, the amendment of the National Youth Development Council Act, which is long overdue and increasing funding to this council. Those are areas under scrutiny. Let me also mention that the curriculum review that your Committee has mentioned is reaching its final stages. In fact, the National Curriculum Framework is ready. This curriculum framework is changing the whole curriculum delivery and process. We are completely reviewing the curriculum from Grade 1 to 12. We are also reviewing the teacher training programmes so that the teacher training package includes the vital aspect of making the Zambian child get what it takes from the school system so that when he/she moves out of the school system, he/she can find a source of livelihood. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry is also working on access of the youth to low cost financial capital and information. Yes, we are aware of the challenges the CEEC has brought to the Zambian society. We cannot agree more with your Committee that we need to expedite this. We will be urging our sister ministries to look into this as an urgent matter. We are also aware that there are serious challenges faced in the disbursement of the youth development fund. We are in the process of streamlining the youth fund, which is currently undergoing a review in order to avoid lapses and abuses that were seen in the last regime, hence this little delay. Everything will be done to make sure that the youth development fund is functional as quickly as possible. We are totally in agreement with the report that training youths is important before disbursing of any funds to them. We will embark on this aspect. 

Sir, yes, the rural youth has suffered more than the urban youth. Nobody will dispute that. I think there should be serious and urgent attention paid to the rural youth. The ministry undertakes to do this. As we look at the expansion of our offices everywhere in Zambia, we will endeavour to have the rural youth getting a little more attention than the urban youth has received. I am talking about the youth in general.


Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I indicated that the youth, in general, occupy a very soft spot in the PF Manifesto. At the same time, however, and even though it is the PF which is in the Government, this is one big issue, as one hon. Member mentioned, that every hon. Member of Parliament must see as a personal challenge. I say so because, on my journeys around the country, Mpika Central – who is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika Central? Is it the hon. Deputy Minister for TV sets?


Dr Phiri: I was pleasantly surprised and I did congratulate him for a job well done. The hon. Deputy Minister and his team have started training the youth in various skills at Mpika and Chilonga youth skills centres, using part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), that sacred money under your custodianship, hon. Members. 

Sir, to me, this programme is permanent and is intended to train 400 youths each year in co-operation with existing institutions in the area. I hope that the hon. Deputy Minister will reach this figure. I will freely offer my consultancy to hon. Members of Parliament. 

Sir, in considering the plight of the youth, the more rural they are, the more urgent the matter. Spare a little money from the CDF. Two youths helped will send the right signals to heaven for your re-election.  


Dr Phiri: This is my plea to all hon. Members. 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, we are unanimous in agreeing that this time bomb, as it ticks, should not be allowed to explode. We, in the Government, are even more mindful of this time bomb because, as I said earlier, we are elected on the basis of our youth saying the PF can meet their expectations. However, this does not dilute your involvement as hon. Members of other political parties. 

Mr Speaker, this was a necessary report and step towards stabilising our country.  Our country should remain stable. Do not abuse the youth in any way, for any purpose, because that would be a disservice to the Almighty God. 

Sir, the youth are the most likely to be abused because their plight is in a very poor state. Reports of political parties using youths to meet certain goals must be left to the past. There are other avenues by which, as adults, we can resolve issues amicably. The youth should be the last to be paraded because Katanga will not spare them. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, …


Dr Phiri: … I now receive the report and appeal to my fellow hon. Members of Parliament that this is the right direction the nation should take. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, it is gratifying that hon. Members from both your left and right have given unanimous support to the adoption of the report. However, I would like to comment on the trip your Committee undertook to Rwanda. Hon. Dr Phiri, the size of the country that we toured should not be the only factor to be looked at. The Bembas from the Northern and Luapula provinces say “amano yafumine mwifwesa yaya muchulu.”

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, this means that wisdom can also come from the young ones as opposed to the elders.  

Mr Speaker, in 1994, Rwanda was reduced to nothing after the genocide. However, today, it has made great strides. The country even has a ‘one laptop per child policy’ and has one of the fastest growing economies in the world. Therefore, I urge the Government to seriously look at this report and not just file it so that we can have a good reaction from it. 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this report be adopted.

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to. 

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn. 

Question put and agreed.


The House adjourned at 1222 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 26th June, 2012.



340. Mr Simfukwe (Mbala) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to revise upwards the amount payable to the High Court as security for costs by a petitioner in an election petition case; and

(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Minister of Justice (Mr S. S. Zulu, SC.): Mr Speaker, hon. Members may wish to know that the amount of security for costs contained in the Electoral Act, No. 12 of 1996, which stands at 800 fee units translating to K144,000.00 is inadequate considering the high cost of litigation in an election petition. The Electoral Commission of Zambia will, therefore, make recommendations to revise upwards the amount provided for security for costs by way of amending the Electoral Act, 1996.

Sir, amendments to the Electoral Act, 1996, will be implemented after the completion of the Constitution review process so as to ensure a comprehensive review of the Act which will incorporate the contents in the proposed new Constitution.

Thank you, Sir.