Tuesday, 27th June, 2023

Tuesday, 27^thJune, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF MS LESIA VASYLENKO, HON. MEMBER OF THE UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT, IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Public Gallery, of Hon. Lesia Vasylenko, a member of the Committee on Climate in the Parliament of Ukraine.

Ms Lesia Vasylenko rose.

Madam Speaker: I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guest and warmly welcome her in our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR S. KAMPYONGO, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SHIWANG’ANDU CONSTITUENCY, AGAINST MR M. E. MPOSHA, MP, HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, FOR INSINUATING THAT THERE ARE HOUSES FULL OF MONEY WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATING HIS ASSERTION

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 13^thJune, 2023, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 284, and Mr M. E. Mposha, MP, hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, was responding to a supplementary question, Mr S. Kampyongo, hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, raised a point of order. The point of order was based on Standing Order No. 65(1)(b), which requires an hon. Member debating to ensure the information he or she provides is factual and verifiable.

In his point of order, Mr S. Kampyongo asked whether the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation was in order to insinuate that some houses were full of money, without laying evidence on the Table to substantiate his assertion.

Hon. Members, in her immediate response, the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker reserved her ruling. I have studied the matter and I will now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, the point of order raises the issue of an hon. Member’s duty to ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.

Hon. Members, I had recourse to the relevant verbatim record in order to ascertain whether the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation made the statement as alleged. The relevant excerpt of his statement is as follows:

“Madam Speaker, the people of Katombola have asked a very good supplementary question and I was about to say that it is the desire of this Government to ensure that all the monies are recovered from those who looted, not perceived looters, but those who looted because the evidence is overwhelming of several thousands of dollars, millions of Kwacha being kept in people’s homes. So, that is not a perception.”

Hon. Members, evidently, it is that statement that was the basis of Mr S. Kampyongo’s point of order.

Hon. Members, let me state from the outset that hon. Members enjoy freedom of speech and debate in the House. However, freedom is not absolute because it is subject to the law and rules of the House. One such restraint is the requirement for hon. Members to debate factually. Standing Order No. 65(1)(b) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 2021, compels hon. Members to debate factually. It provides as follows:

“65. Content of speech

A Member who is debating shall –

ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

Hon. Members, I had occasion to rule on a similar matter when Mr M. Kafwaya, hon. Member for Lunte, raised a point of order against Hon. D. Syakalima, MP, Minister of Education (Daily Parliamentary Debates of 17^thJune, 2022). In that matter, Mr M. Kafwaya, stated that the hon. Minister of Education had accused the previous Government of operating in a haphazard manner without providing evidence to support his statement. In my ruling, I stated as follows:

“From the excerpt it is clear that the hon. Minister attempted to justify his statement by referring to a conversation he had had with some researchers who allegedly conducted a research in the country. However, this was not supported by any documentary or cogent evidence as envisaged by Standing Order No. 65. In view of this, the hon. Minister breached Standing Order No. 65 and was out of order.”

Hon. Members, in this matter, the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation informed the House that some people’s houses were full of dollars or money. He, however, did not lay any evidence to support his assertion. In view of this, the hon. Minister breached Standing Order No. 65(1)(b) and was out of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, regrettably, I have noticed a tendency on both sides of the House of hon. Members making unsubstantiated statements, which have the potential to mislead the House and the public at large. I wish to remind you to avoid making such unsubstantiated statements in the House.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam Speaker: There are indications from three hon. Members, and these are the hon. Members for Petauke Central, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa and the hon. Member for Mpika. The last entry is by the hon. Member for Lumezi. So those are the only matters of urgent public importance and we will start with the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

Hon. Members, please, as you raise your matters of urgent public importance, remember the guidance given and the criteria.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE GRADING OF ROADS IN PETAUKE

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to raise an urgent matter of public importance.

Madam Speaker, before I go ahead, let me congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the New Dawn Government for the good work they did in Paris. That is what we want. The Government should make sure that the benefits trickle down to the people.

Madam Speaker, this matter is directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House, Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, in Petauke, the District Commissioner (DC) went to stop the grader that had started working on all the roads across the constituency, the project that was approved by the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) committee.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Before I even curtail, that matter definitely does not qualify to be raised as a matter of public importance.

Mr J. E. Banda: How?

Madam Speaker: You can ask it in another form. Can we make progress.

MR KANG’OMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR KAMFINSA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, MR KAPALA, ON THE FUEL SHORTAGE IN KITWE AND OTHER PLACES

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for the opportunity to raise an urgent matter directed at the hon. Minister of Energy.

Madam Speaker, there is a crisis of fuel shortage in Kitwe and my investigations have actually, confirmed that it is not only Kitwe that is affected by the shortage of fuel.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Energy in order not to come to this august House to assure the public that the crisis that we are witnessing of fuel will not affect the wheels of the economy?

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

Madam Speaker: I have not heard about it and I do not know if the hon. Minister of Energy is aware that there is a shortage of fuel on the Copperbelt and other areas. Hon. Minister, if you are not aware, you can just indicate that you need some time to go and investigate and come back to the House later. That will be in order.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, firstly, I need to get to the office and consult with the Energy Regulation Board (ERB). That is when I can come back and make a statement on the issue.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Okay! Since the hon. Minister – Maybe, that is why there is justification for the hon. Member for Kamfinsa to have raised the matter. Since the hon. Minister is now aware, he can come back to the House on Thursday, 29^th June, 2023, this week, to render a ministerial statement on the matter.

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT, MR KABUSWE, ON ILLEGAL GOLD MINING IN MPIKA

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, the Mines and Minerals Act is very clear.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

The matter is directed at which ministry or hon. Minister?

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, it is directed at the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development or indeed, the Leader of Government Business in the House, if the hon. Minister is not around.

Madam Speaker: Proceed precisely to the point.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, we have an area in Mpika where gold has been discovered. In that area, no one has been licensed to mine. However, a company called Ntamba Mweru has moved heavy equipment to the site and is carrying out mining activities. In the process, the bridge that connects Kanyelele and Mutamba villages has even been destroyed. This company has been mining and taking the dust that contains minerals to another area for hiding. There is a very big heap –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mpika!

Mr Kapyanga remained standing.

Madam Speaker: You can resume your seat.

Mr Kapyanga resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: I believe you did raise that matter maybe, last week or the week before. An issue was raised on the mining or discovery of gold in Mpika. I recall that the hon. Minister came to deliver a statement on the Floor of this House. Since now it relates to a particular company, which according to you, is mining, just put in a question and the hon. Minister will be able to tackle it. I am not admitting your matter of urgent public importance because just about two weeks ago, we did discuss the same issue.

Mr Kapyanga: It is different, Madam Speaker.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE STATEMENT BY THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF POLICE IN THE NEWS DIGGERS NEWSPAPER

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you very kindly for permitting the people of Lumezi to raise a matter of urgent public importance directed at Her Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in this House.

Madam Speaker, today, a leading news tabloid, News Diggers, had a story headlined: “Tone down, Co-operate or We Will Use Minimum Force – IG Warns Opposition.” It is in the interest of the Zambian people that we should know what minimum force is. Are they coming to pluck –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

That matter definitely does not qualify. You can put in a question to the hon. Minister. He can come and answer if you want him to answer what minimum force is all about. However, we definitely cannot allow or admit it as a matter of urgent public importance.

MR KAMBITA, HON. MEMBER FOR ZAMBEZI EAST, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON THE STATE OF ZAMBEZI DISTRICT HOSPITAL

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I rise on this matter of urgent public importance with a very heavy heart. Last weekend, I travelled to my constituency in Zambezi –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

The matter is directed at which ministry?

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, I visited Zambezi during the weekend and went to the dilapidated Zambezi District Hospital.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence. In my tribe, they say that when a person is complaining, it means it is paining. I keep on bringing up this matter because this is a serious issue and it relates to life. I was taken into the so-called theatre at Zambezi District Hospital and it is a pathetic situation.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

This is not to curtail you, but I think from the way your question is going, I can see that that is a matter that you can deal with by putting in a question. Since it involves a hospital and a theatre, you can put in an urgent question so that the hon. Minister can be able to address it. We will achieve the same goal or result.

Mr Kambita: Most obliged, Madam Speaker. I will put in an urgent question.

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Hon. Members, I had indicated when we started this segment and I had called out the hon. Members who have just raised their matters of urgent public importance. Hon. Member for Kankoyo and hon. Member for Kasenengwa, you were not outside. So, this is an afterthought and we need to make progress. We have two ministerial statements and questions. Therefore, I will not admit any more matters under this segment because I had already advised. That concludes matters of urgent public importance.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

DEBT RESTRUCTURING AGREEMENT WITH OFFICIAL BILATERAL CREDITORS

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for according me this opportunity to provide insights on the debt restructuring for Zambia. Our country has been trying to restructure its foreign debt since 2016, but that effort produced no results.

Madam Speaker, I am happy to tell you that the job has now been done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: I will now provide the details.

Madam Speaker, we have to start from the genesis of the problem of Zambia’s unsustainable debt. The stock of external debt in 2011 was US$1.98 billion, which is just under US$2 billion. By the end of 2021, the external debt had risen to US$13.04 billion. The rise in this stock implied an increase in debt service, which is, the amount of Kwacha in cash that is needed to repay the principal and interest on this debt. The debt service payments accounted for only 9 per cent of domestic revenues in 2011. In other words, in 2011, for every K1 raised in domestic revenue, only about 9n for every Kwacha of revenue collected was used to repay the principal and interest on the debt.

Madam Speaker, in 2020, this went up. For every Kwacha that was collected in revenue, the amount that was needed to service debt was K51.70, more than half of every Kwacha collected as revenue. With K51.70 out of every Kwacha of domestic revenue going towards debt service, and another K39.40 going towards wages and salaries for public servants, K91.10, out of each Kwacha collected in domestic revenue, was committed to debt service and payment of wages and salaries.

Madam Speaker, this means that the balance, out of every Kwacha, was K8.90. This money remained for all other Government programmes which include, buying of medicines, provision of school requisites, Government operations, construction and rehabilitation of roads, support of our small-scale farmers through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), and support of Parliament and constituencies through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This was obviously an impossible task. No wonder the CDF was ever seldom released by the Treasury those days.

Madam Speaker, as the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) shock unfolded, financing pressure emerged. The Kwacha depreciated and inflation spiked, increasing the external debt burden expressed in Kwacha. Unencumbered foreign exchange reserves shrank to US$970 million by the end of October, 2020, against the debt service of around US$1.4 billion on contracted foreign-currency-denominated loans. Unable to meet its external obligations, the Government defaulted on its external debt in November, 2020, and implemented a moratorium on payment of debt obligations in order to undertake a comprehensive debt restructuring exercise.

Madam Speaker, a Debt Sustainability Analysis (DSA) was conducted in 2020. It indicated that Zambia’s debt was unsustainable and the country faced debt distress. If nothing was done to restructure the debt, then out of each Kwacha collected in domestic revenue in 2021, 70n was needed towards debt service. This is very important. So, 70n of every Kwacha of tax that was collected would go to debt service. Now, if we add the payment of wages and salaries, which was about 43n of every Kwacha collected in domestic revenue, it would have meant that to service the debt and pay salaries and wages, we would need all the taxes collected in the country plus what we needed to borrow to put on top. In other words, all the taxes collected would be swallowed up by debt service and payment of salaries and wages. That would not even be enough. We would still need to go and borrow some more to add on.

Madam Speaker, this obviously, would have meant that nothing would remain to spend on any other Government programme. Clearly, this would have brought the country to its knees. Hence, given this problem, in November, 2020, the Government suspended debt service payments to its creditors, but this suspension was unilateral. As such, it was not agreed upon with creditors. So, it is the Zambian Government that simply decided that it would not pay the debt without agreeing with the creditors. This was obviously not a sustainable solution to the debt crisis facing the country because the creditors could drag the country to court any time. The debt of the country needed to be restructured formally.

Madam Speaker, fortunately, a group of rich countries called the Group of Twenty (G20), realised that the debt problem that Zambia and other poor countries were facing was real and big. In 2020, they devised a formal but temporary solution called the Debt Service Suspension Initiative (DSSI). The DSSI was an initiative as said, of the G20, to allow countries facing debt distress to suspend the payment of debt service to most creditors except multilateral creditors such as the World Bank, the African Development Bank (AfDB) and others. However, this too, was a temporary solution because the creditors needed to be paid. A formal and lasting solution to the debt problem, other than mare suspension service, was required.

Madam Speaker, accordingly, the same G20 established the common framework for debt treatment beyond the debt service suspension initiative. This process was meant to provide long-term debt relief to countries such as Zambia. The initiative was to be pursued together with creditors. However, restructuring the debt of the country is not automatic. It is a process that requires co-operation between debtors, creditors and indeed, other stakeholders. A country that faces debt distress must also satisfy some pre-conditions in order to be allowed into the process of restructuring its debt. This is where debtor countries such as Zambia, sometimes fail to make progress. Indeed, Zambia was one of the countries that failed to make progress in this regard, until the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government came into office.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, according to the common framework, a country that faces debt distress, as Zambia did, requires to discuss with all its creditors together and not one by one, in order to get the debt restructured. Discussing with all the creditors together creates trust and avoids suspicion of some creditors getting better deals on the side. This is why, the Official Creditors’ Committee (OCC) was formed to negotiate with Zambia on how to get her debt restructured.

In addition, Madam Speaker, creditors require that the debtor country must have an active programme with the International Monetary Fund (IMF). This gives them the assurance that the country whose debt is being considered for restructuring is conducting its financial affairs in a satisfactory manner. However, the IMF also, requires that creditors co-operate in restructuring the debt before they can agree to provide a financing programme with the debtor country. These complex relationships highlight the importance of strong coordination and co-operation, among stakeholders. It is here where, prior to this Government coming into office, Zambia failed to coordinate and manage relationships and her commitment to debt restructuring and prudent financial management was put into question.

Madam Speaker, Zambia made the request through the G20 common framework for more sustainable debt treatment in 2020. Consequently, a Creditors’ Committee for the country was formed by countries with eligible claims on Zambia. The committee was co-chaired by China and France, with South Africa being the vice-chair. This committee deliberated extensively regarding the extent of relief that Zambia requires, which would be compatible with the IMF’s debt sustainability parameters. In other words, the outcome of negotiations should be a structured debt that takes the country out of debt distress. I think this is very important and so, I will read it again. In other words, the outcome of the negotiations should be a structured debt that takes the country out of debt distress, which is what we have achieved.

Madam Speaker, it is with the OCC, that we have now reached an agreement for debt treatment in accordance with the principle of rendering Zambia’s debt sustainable.

Features of the Agreement

Madam Speaker, the debt restructuring agreement covers about US$6.3 billion of the Central Government debt owed to external bilateral creditors, the debt of Zesco Limited that has been guaranteed by the Government, and also owed to official bilateral creditors. Countries such as China, France, Germany and others have agencies that lend money to other Governments such as Zambia, and to some public institutions such as Zesco Limited.

Madam Speaker, the official bilateral creditor countries have agreed to provide the much-needed debt relief to Zambia with the following terms:

significant debt relief through a significant maturity extension of the existing debt by more than twelve years with final maturity in the year 2043.

So, the debt has been stretched up to 2043, a significant maturity extension over existing claims by more than twelve years with the final maturity in the year 2043;

interest rates will be cut from what they are currently to very concessional rates during the next fourteen years, and will not exceed 2.5 per cent thereafter, under the baseline scenario;
principle repayments are starting in 2026, three years from now, but only for 0.5 per cent of the debt stock per annum for the period 2026 to 2035. In other words, what will be paid will be a small fraction of what ought to have been paid.

Madam Speaker, the agreement also includes an adjustment mechanism that recognises the uncertainties that exist regarding Zambia’s future debt-carrying capacity. The adjustment mechanism provides for an accelerated repayment schedule and higher interest rates if Zambia’s debt-carrying capacity improves from the current weak classification to medium classification. This assessment will be jointly undertaken by the IMF and the World Bank in 2026. Should the assessment show that Zambia’s debt-carrying capacity has improved from weak to medium, the agreement provides that:

final maturity will be reduced by five years from 2043 to 2038.
interest rates will be, slightly higher than the baseline scenario.

Madam Speaker, full details of the agreement will again be explained to the House and the people of Zambian after we have negotiated and signed the memorandum of agreement (MoU) with bilateral official creditors. So, these are the principles upon which the formal MoU will be signed and some of the details shared at that point in time.

Madam Speaker, the debt treatment that we have agreed to with our bilateral official creditors ensures Zambia’s debt sustainability in both cases, whether the debt service carrying capacity is low or moderate. So, whether the capacity remains low or moderate, the debt restructuring will ensure that Zambia’s debt remains sustainable. The official creditors have also agreed with the Government that domestic debt, which is local currency-denominated debt such as Treasury Bills and Bonds, will be excluded from any treatment. This means that the fear that some people had that if they bought Zambian Treasury Bills or Bonds, they would also be subject to restructuring would not arise because they are excluded. This is essential to preserve financial stability and ensure a well-functioning domestic debt market.

Madam Speaker, the postponement of payments through extended maturities will generate about US$5.8 billion in debt service savings over the period from 2023 to 2031. I repeat, the postponement of payments through extended maturities will generate about US$5.8 billion in debt service savings over the period from 2023 and 2031. Therefore, Zambia over the next ten years, will be paying its official creditors about US$750 million.

Madam Speaker, without this agreement, Zambia would have paid US$6.3 billion for a certain period. So, with this agreement, over the next ten years, Zambia will have to pay US$750 million.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, in economic terms or should I say, considering the time value of money, as described in the IMF Debt Sustainability Framework, this agreement delivers close to 40 per cent in reduction of our debt burden as a result of the postponement and the reduction of interest rates.

Benefits of the Agreement

Madam Speaker, the agreement with the official creditors has several benefits for the country and beyond in various ways. Firstly, as I have just said, it generates US$5.8 billion in debt service savings which unlocks resources that can be utilised for our developmental programmes. In the absence of debt restructuring, Zambia would have had to pay US$6.3 billion to the official creditors in the next ten years. With the restructuring, the amount reduces to US$750 million only. In average, it is US$75 million per year.

Madam Speaker, it also unlocks extra funds from co-operating partners. This year, 2023, for example, arising from the agreement reached, both the IMF and the World Bank will disburse funding to Zambia. In the case of the IMF, in the next month or so, it will disburse US188.80 million and the World Bank, US75 million. The debt restructuring, therefore, will result in positive cash flow for the country as opposed to the situation where there is no debt restructuring agreement in place.

Effects of Debt Restructuring

Madam Speaker, whereas it is true that debt servicing will resume in three years, the reduction in the principal amount payable due to stretching the maturity as well as the lower interest rates means that the actual cost of debt servicing will be very low. At the same time, the support coming from co-operating partners in support of Zambia will exceed debt servicing. This means that Zambia will enjoy positive cash flow when one compares the debt outflows which will resume in three years, versus the debt inflows and other extra cash available for development.

Madam Speaker, it provides a pathway to resorting debt suitability in the medium term, thereby, leading to an improved microeconomic environment. In particular, the impact on the exchange stability of this agreement is tangible. I wish to remind the House that some of our locally issued Treasury Bonds are bought by non-residents who bring in foreign exchange. Before the restructuring agreement was reached, many new investors in bonds held back their foreign exchange. For those whose bonds were maturing, they chose to externalise their money rather than reinvest it for fear that their bonds might be subjected to restructuring as well. This contributed to the pressure against the Kwacha/Dollar exchange rate. With the agreement in place, this concern is no longer of significance and therefore, everything else being constant, this should assist to get the exchange rate to be more stable than before.

Madam Speaker, it will promote renewed interest for Zambia as a country dedicated to economic transformation, making it easier to attract more investment. It also paves way for debt restructuring to be undertaken in a number of African countries or those close to facing destitute.

Next Steps

Madam Speaker, we still have some work to do with our official bilateral creditors even after this agreement was made under the auspices of the G20 framework for debt treatment. The next step will be to negotiate and sign an MoU between Zambia and the official creditors. This MoU will outline in detail the terms of the agreed debt treatment which will then be implemented through bilateral agreements with each member of the OCC. We will, with the co-operation of the threshold creditors, expeditiously undertake this work including undertaking the necessary reconciliations.

Madam Speaker, I have so far, focused on the official bilateral creditors. Hon. Members of the House are aware though that as a country, we also have commercial debt that is owed to private creditors for a total amount of US$6.8 billion as at the end of 2022, with notably, the Eurobond for US$3.5 billion.

Madam Speaker, as nation, we have already been engaging with private creditors and we are in discussions. This agreement with the official creditors will help to expedite the matters. As a responsible Government, we are keen to ensure that the country should never find itself in a position of unsustainable debt accumulation. It is against this background that we have brought to this august House, the Public Debt Management Bill, which requires the executive arm of the Government to seek approval of this House before getting any loan.

Conclusion

Madam Speaker, allow me to express the Government’s gratitude to all our official bilateral creditors for the favourable debt restructuring agreement that was reached on 22^nd June, 2023. Special thanks go to the co-chairs, France and China, as well as South Africa, the Vice-Chair of the committee. We are also indebted to the Paris Club Secretariat for their support. Thanks to the IMF and the World Bank who stood with us.

Madam Speaker, special thanks go to the hard-working technical team, the Secretary to the Treasury (ST) and his team at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, and the Governor and his team at the Bank of Zambia (BOZ), who exhibited total resilience through this challenging journey. I would also like to convey our sincere thanks to our financial advisors, Lazard Frères of France, our legal advisors, White and Case LLP from the United Kingdom (UK), and the communication advisors, Highgate from the UK. I also want to thank my colleagues from Cabinet Office for their support. This is due to their commitment and active participation in the reform. I will not forget to thank Parliament because without it, this reform leading to where we are today would not have been possible.

Madam Speaker, finally, allow me to thank His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … for his visionary leadership and for steering us to where we are today. He spent countless hours deep in the night unlocking the stumbling blocks that we faced. To the Zambian public, thank you so much for the awesome support. Just under two years ago, this Government took over an economy that was under stress, that appeared to have an uncertain future. Step by step, and methodically, this Government is bringing back things in place. We promised to bring down inflation, and it is done. We promised to stabilise the exchange rate, and it is done. We promised to restore order and peace in the markets, and it is done. We promised to provide teachers and health workers and it is done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, we also promised to reconstruct the country, especially the countryside, which was left behind and this is being done through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Of course, we promised to restructure the debt, and it is now done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, with this upward direction of development in our country, the situation is very clear. This is in great contrast with what was happening in the past. With this clear upward direction, I appeal to the Zambians for further support.

Madam Speaker, under the Government of President Hakainde Hichilema, this country is in good hands.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Of course, we have run out of time but because of the importance of the matter that is under discussion, I have used my discretion to add another twenty-five minutes for purposes of supplementary questions, on condition hon. Members, that we do not repeat ourselves. Let us not debate, but be concise to the point.

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his measured and yet, detailed statement. The hon. Minister stated in his statement that we had put a moratorium on debt repayment since 2020. I want to be clear about the savings. If we were not paying debt since 2020 – The hon. Minister has informed us that things will now be better. Of course, we will not live like the Europeans but of course, things will certainly be better. I just want to be clear about where these savings will come from. Given the fact that we were at zero payment for the past three years, and now that, we are on this programme where we will even be expected maybe, to pay interest for the next three years before we start paying the principal, may I understand where that extra saving is going to come from to make things better?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition for that important question, which I think needs clarification. This House will recall that in my statement, we said that when we combined the debt service with the payments for emoluments, what was left was very minimal. So, the country was in financial distress. This is where the IMF programme comes in because the financial situation in this country is very low. So, the IMF programmes, the support from the World Bank and other donors come in to provide the financial cushion, which will actually be more than the debt service, so that as we structure the economy. We are able to continue supporting social and economic sectors.

Madam Speaker, to simplify this, we can imagine a situation where someone is running a company that is almost bankrupt and fortunately, the lenders come in and say, “Look, this company is going to close, but we do not want it to close. So, restructure your company so that it can be efficient and do better. So, in the meantime, we will provide you with extra finance so that as your company becomes efficient, you will still have some cash to enable the company to move forward.”

Madam Speaker, of course, it is important that we restructure our companies so that they become efficient because this is what will ultimately help us to get out of problems. Hon. Members should remember that this restructuring is not a write-off of everything. Debt still remains. So, with that remaining debt, we will need support from the IMF, the World Bank and others so that we restructure and the economy grows. In the meantime, we have raw materials in the form of this funding that we are getting. I hope that is clear, hon. Leader of the Opposition.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask a follow-up question to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Indeed, it is very clear that the strength of the United Party for National Development (UPND) stems from doing the normal thing. Last week, we saw our hon. Colleagues holding press conferences –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Just ask the question. We do not have sufficient time. Do not debate.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I must apologise. It is just that given such an opportunity, we would want to really show how we are elated by the milestone we have achieved. I want to find out from the hon. Minister how he plans to propagate this good information he has provided to us hon. Members of Parliament, especially those of us who understand the steps that he has taken, for it to be broken down into smaller units for the masses to understand so that these people (Pointing at the hon. Opposition Members) do not mislead the masses …

Laughter

Mr Kambita: … as they have already started doing. Last week on Friday, they were ranting all over.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I want to know how the hon. Minister would actually deal with that portion, which may derail this good initiative.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Zambezi East, yet again, for that very important question. Indeed, it means that those of us who sit in here including the frontbenchers are the best communicators. So, we will be drawing people like the hon. Member who understand these things, to come and explain the statement I have issued to the people. This statement will also be on the Website of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and I urge my hon. Colleagues to go through it. It is up to all of us to explain this issue to the masses. In the ministry, the whole of this week, we have been having media engagements. For example, we have had a meeting with the Economics Association of Zambia (EAZ) and other three or four media engagements. I also want to thank those who are raising questions because it gives us an opportunity to explain. I also want to thank many others especially those who understand the professional field, who have also taken it as their responsibility to speak and explain this issue.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, what is the total debt that Zambia is supposed to start paying back? The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated that there is a bilateral debt which is US$6.3 billion and a commercial debt which is US$6.8 billion.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the total is US$6.3 billion for the bilateral debt and US$6.8 for the commercial debt. However, in this kind of situation or game, there are many technicalities regarding which debt is considered for restructuring and which is not, depending on the nature of the debt. What I want the hon. Members to do is to focus on two things. Firstly, he should focus on the reduction in the amount of money that we will pay in the next ten years. Secondly, he should consider the fact that 40 per cent of this debt is going down because of the time value of money. Perhaps, let me try and explain that.

Madam Speaker, I have heard some people on social media saying that this debt is just being postponed, and there is no reduction. There is a reduction. Even though there is no haircut or write-off, there is a reduction. How?

Madam Speaker, to simplify it, let me give an example. Suppose there is a young man who wants to marry a lady from the Southern Province, and the parents of the girl tells him that for him to marry their daughter, he must pay ten cows. The young man then tells the parents to the girl that where he comes from, there are no cows and that he can only pay cash and they agree. Now, if a cow is K5,000, it means that lobola will be K50,000. So, the young man negotiates to say that he can pay cash over a period of five years. In five years, the value of a cow will no longer be K5,000. Maybe, it will be at K10,000. So, it means that in five years’ time, when this young man finishes paying the K50,000, he would not have paid lobola for ten cows. K50,000 would no longer be equivalent to ten cows by the time he finishes paying.

Therefore, the value of the money that is pushed to be paid in front, automatically drops, especially with the interest rate that is lower like what I have explained. So, because of the time value of money that I have explained, that is how we are coming to the 40 per cent reduction in the debt.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, allow me to join many Zambians who have congratulated the Government on this great move. I think this was a bipartisan matter that affects all of us and the well-being of our country.

Madam Speaker, this gives the hon. Minister a platform to more or less start over again. In this particular case, I am looking at the economy in as far as it starting to reboot so that we can get revenues growing. One of the revenue pillars is mining. The hon. Minister will agree with me that the last twenty-four months have been very difficult under the sector regardless of the incentives that have been provided. In fact, we are anticipating job losses in the North-Western Province. In Mufulira, over 100 workers from a company called Kafironda, African Explosives Zambia Limited (AEL) will lose their jobs. Bearing in mind that we still have a lot of work to do, what message is the hon. Minister giving to the people of Zambia regarding one of the great pillars that we need to depend on, which is mining? What is the hon. Minister going to do about it?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the hon Member for Kantanshi is absolutely right. This is the time to focus. We should remember that when this Government came into office, there were two pillars we said we would pursue. The first one was to normalise the debt situation, which is now close to being done. When you normalise the debt, it does not automatically make you rich. It just helps you to get rid of a burden on your shoulders. So, to get rich and jobs, we now have to crank up and get industries going.

Madam Speaker, I really apologise for the delay in sorting out those two mining companies. It is just that there were complications. The manner in which both of these companies found themselves in the situation in which they are, there are many illegal complications. However, I believe we are getting close. We hope to reboot the economy. I think there will be further reforms, going forward, that should stimulate industries in all sectors such as manufacturing and agriculture. This is now really our priority number one to get the economy, jobs, and incomes going. The hon. Member is absolutely right and I agree with him.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is well-known for possessing excellent skills in terms of negotiating. Lazard Frères was paid US$5 million. I want to find out whether this Government is considering renegotiating the US$5 million that was paid to Lazard Frères.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, yes, Lazard Frères was hired to be an advisor for this transaction. This is an arrangement that we found in place. The attitude we took was that we needed to get over this debt restructuring as quickly as possible. So, rather than disrupting things and getting another set of advisors, it was prudent to proceed. This Government’s attitude is to allow good things to work, regardless of whether those things started under the United National Independence Party (UNIP), the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) or the Patriotic Front (PF). If something is not working, it should be changed. So, there is no plan whatsoever, to get into the sort of arrangement that the hon. Member is talking about.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement which has clarified the issue of debt restructuring. Some sections of society thought we had hard cash of K6.3 billion. As of 2021, the external debt of our country was US$13 billion. The people of Mpika want to know how much our current external debt is.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as of the first quarter of 2023, this debt is standing at just US$14 billion. Obviously, the debt has gone up and the reason for this is very clear and it was never hidden.

At the time when we were doing the Budget for 2023, we came to this House and laid out the borrowing plan, and everything that we have borrowed is in accordance with that plan. What was the borrowing for? Some of it, as I explained before, went towards the unfinished projects that were started by the Patriotic Front (PF). This is where it was deemed that if we abandoned those profits, we would actually be worse off. A good example is the Kafulafuta Dam on the Copperbelt Province. There was progress made but if we stopped, then what?

Madam Speaker, they spent so much money on that exercise but if there is no water that is collected, that is a loss. So, in this case, we decided to proceed to get the loan and finish off that project. Obviously, there were also some other areas where we did borrow. The House may be familiar with the US$300 million that we borrowed from the World Bank to work on the farm blocks, and the US$100 million that we got for tourism. So, these are the loans that we got. With regard to the assessment or the decision to get a loan or not, I believe we are doing it carefully so that there is value for money.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, as the people of Solwezi East in Mushindamo District, this statement gives us hope knowing that in 2024, we are going to have an allocation for the construction of our Central Business District (CBD).

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that this debt restructuring is going to help in terms of stabilising the exchange rate. There was a concern last week by Hon. Anthony Mumba, that the sharp rise in terms of the exchange rate between the Dollar and the Kwacha is going to put pressure on the economy. What assurance is the hon. Minister giving the people of Zambia that they should not worry about the sharp rise in the exchange rate in terms of the Kwacha?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, indeed, as I explained, one of the sources of the pressure against the Kwacha in the recent years was this issue of non-residents coming into the country with Dollars, change them into Kwacha and buy Treasury Bills. This is something that has been going on for years, from maybe, 1993 or 1995, in spite of the financial infrastructure of this country. Now, when there was no certainty that the debt was going to be restructured or when this discussion started, some of these people who brought Dollars to buy our Treasury Bonds, became jittery. They stopped bringing the money inside the country. For those who already bought the bonds, when those bonds matured, rather than reinvest into the bonds, many of them took the money out of the country.

Madam Speaker, I think this year alone, because of this uncertainty, the figures show that about US$800 million has left the country. In other words, those who brought in money and bought Treasury Bonds, when those bonds matured, they did not reinvest but took the money out. Roughly, about US$700 million to US$800 million left the country. This is part of the pressure on the exchange rate that we have been facing. That is why in the midst of that pressure, we used to explain that we had that pressure because the debt restructuring was not resolved. When the announcement was made, some of those who were on the fence with their Dollars, of course, came back. Since the matter was clear and there were no threats of their bonds being restructured, they reinvested. I believe that at least, due to this source of instability, I think we are in good hands now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, while debt restructuring brings in a lot of potential benefits such as improved cash flow and also, avoid default and bankruptcy, it has also some disadvantages. In some cases, debt restructuring may require –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Ask a question on the point of clarification.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, debt restructuring may require collateral or security for the debt. This is where one attaches property. In the event that the borrower fails to meet the restructured debt obligations, the borrower loses those assets. Have we attached any assets to this particular debt restructuring deal?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, certainly, on the debt that we have acquired as the Government, there has been no pledge of assets. We have looked through the debts that were acquired by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, and there were also no assets that were pledged. So, the fear that the hon. Member has is not warranted.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, when one creates a problem and fails to solve it, but someone else manages to solve it, what would we assume could have created the problem?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Simushi for that good question. I think Hon. Mundubile has heard and he can stand up and answer.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate statement. However, I want to seek clarification from the hon. Minister because in his statement, he stated that the debt service savings that will come as a result of this debt restructuring will amount to about US$5.8 billion from now up to 2031. However, I am meant to understand that this amount of US$5.8 billion freed up the fiscal space and will, more or less, be like a debt servicing deferment. Why is the hon. Minister then referring to it as debt service savings?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, if you remember, I said that another way of getting out of this problem is through the support that we are getting from the donors to cover for that and beyond. So, this is where the extra cash is coming from.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. That is what time could allow us to do. I can see there are so many other questions, but time cannot allow us. Hon. Members should feel free to engage the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, if they need further clarifications.

THE PRESIDENT’S VISIT TO UKRAINE AND RUSSIA

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Kakubo): Madam Speaker, first of all, I wish to express my gratitude to you, for allowing me to present to this august House, a statement on the Visit to Russia and Ukraine by His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, in line with Zambia’s foreign policy, the Government remains deeply committed to promoting peace, security and stability, regionally, continentally and globally as a catalyst for socio-economic development. This includes the Russia/Ukraine War and the various peace and security situations across our continent Africa, where the President has already been involved in preventive diplomacy, conflict resolution, peace-making and peacebuilding.

Madam Speaker, in this light, President Hakainde Hichilema, joined the President of the Republic of South Africa, His Excellency Mr Cyril Ramaphosa, the Union of the Comoros President, His Excellency Mr Azali Assoumani and the President of the Republic of Senegal, His Excellency, Mr Macky Sall. The delegation also comprised the Prime Minister of the Arab Republic of Egypt, Hon. Mostafa Madbouly, Hon. Jean-Claude Gakosso, Foreign Minister from Congo Brazzaville and also, Dr Ruhakana Rugunda, Special Envoy and Former Prime Minister of the Republic of Uganda.

Madam Speaker, the African Peace Initiative (API) draws upon Africa’s own track record in resolving its own conflicts by encouraging open dialogue and negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. The API is motivated by the humanitarian crisis and the far-reaching consequences of the Russia-Ukraine conflict which includes disruptions to Africa’s commodity supply chains.

As this House is aware, Madam Speaker, Zambia together with other African countries has been adversely affected by the disruptions in the supply chain resulting in food insecurity due to the rising cost of grain and fertiliser. Unfortunately, also, Madam Speaker, the human cost of war includes loss of lives, especially for women and children, who are defenceless, and displacement of families. In this, I refer to forced migration and the destruction of countries and property.

Madam Speaker, development co-operation programmes for developing countries such as ours also tend to be negatively affected when resources are being directed to war, peace and security. Madam Speaker, in recognition of this, President Hakainde Hichilema has embraced the API seeking to contribute to global peace for the creation of a conducive environment for the economic and social prosperity of all the people.

Madam Speaker, during the visit to Russia and Ukraine, the API delegation held discussions with both President Putin and President Zelensky. In the discussions, during their mission, the African leaders underscored and prioritised the ability to listen to honest conversations to understand both the priorities of Russian and Ukraine and also, to understand their perspectives on the war. This was the first step of Africa’s contribution to other global initiatives aimed at ending this war. Madam Speaker, every war must come to an end.

Madam Speaker, in their engagements with the two world leaders, the presidential delegation from Africa emphasised the need to consider dialogue and the process to negotiation as a means to end this conflict. They also addressed the repatriation of war victims, who are women and children, who have already been displaced, while recognising that the world also has a profound responsibility to contribute towards post-war reconstruction.

Madam Speaker, I wish to emphasise at this point that the API to Russia and Ukraine is not an isolated initiative, but one of the several global efforts that are currently underway, under which President Hakainde Hichilema and other world leaders are already involved in to promote peace, security and stability for the world at large.

Madam Speaker, Africa is fully seized with efforts aimed at resolving conflicts through its already established mechanisms under the auspices of the African Union (AU), the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC), Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA), under which President Hakainde Hichilema is the Chairperson, and the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (ICGR), among others.

Madam Speaker, Zambia, as an active member of these organisations, is already involved and remains totally committed to initiatives and efforts aimed at addressing various peace and security situations on the African continent such as the unfortunate conflict in Sudan, the ongoing situation of war in the Eastern the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and also, in Ogaden Arid Region in Northern Mozambique. The House may recall that this Government was compelled to repatriate the Zambian nationals from Sudan not long ago following the outbreak of the war.

In this regard, Madam Speaker, President Hakainde Hichilema will assume the Chairmanship of the SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Co-operation in August, this year, and this will give him another opportunity to coordinate peace initiatives in the region. Going forward, the President will continue engaging his counterparts, and other African leaders to facilitate dialogue on areas of conflict on our continent while urging the global community to explore all possible avenues to end the devastating war between Russia and Ukraine.

Madam Speaker, as I get closer to concluding, I wish to affirm the importance of upholding fundamental principles of territorial integrity among nations, respect of borders, and peaceful dispute settlements as outlined by the African Union Constitutive Act and also, the United Nations Charter. Zambia continues to leverage its own established experience in conflict resolution and promotion of peace, security and stability within the region and beyond. It also continues to stand with others in their time of difficulty and most importantly, to protect its own interests.

Madam Speaker, in recognising the interdependence of nations, conflicts elsewhere do affect Zambia’s socio-economic well-being and also, the well-being of its own people. President Hakainde Hichilema continues to say,

“Instability anywhere is instability everywhere.”

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, Zambia as a country, has been involved in peaceful dispute settlements within the region and beyond from time immemorial. Zambians followed the visit of His Excellency the President to Russia and Ukraine very keenly. My question is: Following the events as they unfolded, does the delegation feel that there are areas where it would have done better, be it in message packaging or indeed, just information so that for further engagements, maybe, it could improve in those particular areas?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for that important question.

Madam Speaker, the responsibility that was confronted by the group of African leaders is very complex and it has been going on for some time. Suffice to mention that this is not the only initiative that our leaders have been involved in. There are other initiatives that are being undertaken at the United Nations (UN) level. This is one part that takes us to the next level. The intention of this engagement, dear hon. Colleagues, was to give an opportunity to African leaders to get their own first-hand information. In this process, even our President was able to have a one-on-one dialogue with President Zelensky, to have an in-depth understanding of Ukraine’s priorities. The President also had a one-on-one engagement, apart from the group meeting, for him to have an in-depth engagement of Russia’s perspective on the war.

Now, Madam Speaker, what are some of the pluses? The first plus was the ability to have an audience with the warring parties, and this was a step in the right direction. The other one was the capacity to have an honest engagement with both President Zelensky and President Putin. The situation in both countries was risky for African leaders. So, at this stage, I think, it is difficult to find any negatives from that initiative. We must appreciate it and more needs to be done. I think, it is too soon for us to see the negatives. The African leaders are now strategising on the next engagement. Another positive sign is that, both President Zelensky and President Putin have agreed to engage. So, there are more positives which outweigh any negatives that may be perceived.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, the initiative that was taken by the African leaders is commendable. Now, my question to the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation is: Given this wonderful initiative where we have seen African leaders teaming up to go and intervene in a problem in European and not in Africa, does it mean that we are seeing an Africa that is getting united and able to speak for the people of Africa and the world at large?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I pick positives from the question in that in a situation where it is visible that the scars of war are affecting families as I described in my statement, every effort accounts for something. Africa’s own experience in dealing with the liberation struggle, our own conflicts on the continent that have been resolved before and those that African leaders are working to resolve, add to that process which the President calls, “the road to peace.” The efforts of African leaders also add to the efforts that all world leaders have. Everybody wants this war to end. Of course, for a group of African leaders to stand together and move to get involved in a global issue is a sign that in Africa, there is some level of unity. That must continue and be encouraged.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that ministerial statement.

Madam Speaker, of course, Zambia has been an ambassador of peace in the region and beyond. I want to find out from the hon. Minister why we did not give priority to the conflict in Sudan. Does the hon. Minister not think that it would have been ideal for us to solve the problem in Sudan than going to Europe?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I think the assertion that African leaders prioritised a war that is outside our own continent is misleading. It is misleading in the sense that, right now, there is war in the Northern part of Mozambique, in Cabo Delgado, and Zambia has troops there. We even have aircrafts in Mozambique to end the war. Another effort that we are making on the continent is that, in a matter of weeks, President Hichilema will take over the Chairmanship of the organ under SADC that is responsible for mediation, politics and peace. So, it is not correct to say that African leaders, including our President, prioritised a war outside the continent.

Madam Speaker, what is also true is that, we recently hosted the COMESA Heads of State Summit. One of the key issues that was discussed when the President was taking over chairmanship, was the war in Sudan. In our deliberations just across the road here, at Mulungushi International Conference Centre, Sudan was represented in the negotiations. Personally, as your hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, I presented a report to the Heads of State that touched on the war in Sudan. So, the assertion that African leaders prioritised a war that is outside their own continent is misleading. There are efforts that are happening within the continent but that must not negate Africa’s responsibility to resolve wars that are outside our continent.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I think one of the benefits of the so many foreign trips the President has undertaken is to improve the image of this country. We, from the rugby fraternity, are so happy that, come this weekend, we are hosting ten different countries for the first time, to compete for the French International Olympics.

Laughter

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, are there other benefits we intend to see from the trips the President has been taking, which are in the short, medium and long term?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, one of the things that the House must be conscious of is that, not too long ago, the reputation of our country in the eyes of the international community was unfavourable.

Hon. Opposition Members: How?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, the quickest way to restore credibility is for our own country to show political will at the highest level possible through the President to rebrand our country. Even what Hon. Musokotwane, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, mentioned, in order to bring all the debtors together, there must be trust. The President needed to meet some of these creditors himself. If the House may recall, after the President was sworn in, one of the key responsibilities he undertook was to go to New York to meet the bondholders. The President met more than 50 per cent of the bondholders himself. The trip that the President made to France, just last week, is the one that has culminated in the debt being resolved. Prior to that, last month, the President was in France again, to have a one-on-one discussion with the President of France to accelerate the process of debt resolution.

Madam Speaker, another issue which has made the President to make certain strategic trips urgently for the country was to ensure that the foreign direct investment (FDI) which had completely dwindled due to lack of trust in the Zambian economy was restored. That is where we are. If they check the numbers at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, they will see that committed funds coming into our economy, as a result of strategic trips made by the President, are yielding good results.

Further, Madam Speaker, as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, we are responsible for managing the President’s travels. One of the key things that we have put in place is to manage the size of the delegation. What we found in our ministry is very different from what we see now. There were huge delegations that had little economic impact on our country. Let us not forget that, at some point, in the past, each time the Head of State was going to New York, musicians were part of the delegation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, our Government used to hire boats and yachts for people to have a good time while outside the country. The records are there. The current situation shows that there have been back-to-back engagements every time the President is out. We even carry the media. Every meeting that the President is involved in can be seen through the media. All engagements of the President are seen. Immediately after the President concludes his business, he vacates the foreign land and returns home to address the urgent issues that he may have left.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, it is good to see my brother, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, who is understandably been out.

Madam Speaker, I just want to make a follow-up on the question raised by the Leader of the Opposition regarding the outcome or the lessons learnt from the President’s trips. Obviously, the trips are commendable and Africa perhaps, has shown that it belongs to the global world.

Madam Speaker, the issue is that, at the United Nations (UN), we voted against the war whilst other countries abstained. Have we learnt something from this trip that we took that perhaps, if we had not voted, then we could have appeared more neutral and perhaps more effective?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, it is good that the hon. Member has brought out that issue so that we deal with the assertion that Zambia did not vote wisely at the United Nations (UN).

Madam Speaker, in a war situation, people die. Women and children die. The people’s lives are disrupted. How then can we go to the UN and say that while people are dying, we are going to remain neutral? How? What does that got do to the credibility of our country? We will vote against any acts of aggression as a country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakubo: Any acts of war, we will vote against them for the reasons I have outlined in my statement. The cost of war is too great. One life that is lost in war is too much.

Madam Speaker, for the hon. Member to even take a posture that Zambia should have been neutral in an act of war, which is currently ongoing, is not correct. It is not fair. Would it be correct for one to say to the people in Ukraine that a country like ours should have been neutral while they are being attacked? We want to give confidence to the people of Zambia that every vote that our Government takes at the UN is carefully calculated. We will continue to vote against any act of war, regardless of which country is involved in it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us restrain ourselves from debating while seated.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, on 7^th March, 2023, the Republic of Zambia, among the 141 countries condemned the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. A trip was undertaken by a delegation of African leaders that included our Republican President to seek a peaceful resolution to the matter.

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation not think that this trip has come a bit too late? Was it not possible for this powerful and very necessary delegation to engage the two Presidents before voting against the war? I am sure some facts have emerged after the tour.

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, the delegation of African leaders that went to meet President Vladimir Putin and President Volodymyr Zelensky was not selected by chance. As Foreign Ministers of African countries, we sat and planned this trip for many months. If you look at the delegation, there are no two countries that actually, have the same position on the war in Ukraine. In that Presidential delegation, some countries have been abstaining for a long time.

Madam Speaker, that mix is what made the trip even more effective. Again, at the expense of repeating ourselves, Zambia will never support any act of war. It is important that this House supports the Government’s position because the cost of war is too great.

Madam Speaker, there are no regrets on the part of the Government to vote against the war.

Madam Speaker, just to add more clarity, when the Government voted against the war, it does not mean that we voted against Russia. What we voted against is an act of aggression and war.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, in the statement and subsequent answer, the hon. Minister recognises the fact that the war is complex. Now, in the engagement that the President and his colleagues from Africa had between President Vladimir Putin and President Volodymyr Zelensky, were there any indications that the two leaders from both countries were willing to have the ongoing conflict resolved through negotiations and dialogue?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, it was one of the positive takeaways that African Heads of State took. After listening to President Zelensky and President Putin, what was very clear Madam Speaker, is the willingness by both Heads of State to go the route of dialogue. However, as the hon. Member of Parliament and I mentioned, the situation is complex. Each side has its own set of requirements and priorities. Now, it requires a process of maybe, de-escalation and bringing the sides together, to begin to do the negotiations to stop the war.

Madam Speaker, what came out of those engagements was the willingness by both President Putin and President Zelensky to table their priorities on one table with the hope of ending the war. However, I must emphasise here that this is a difficult situation which will take a number of steps. The initiative by African Heads of State is just the beginning of the process on the road to peace. So, we must give it time. We must wait for the next dialogue without being too pre-emptive on the next level of engagement and both Russia and Ukraine have indicated that they would want the African Heads of State to take the negotiations to the next level.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to ask a follow-up question to the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Madam Speaker, Africa has fifty-four Heads of State and President Hakainde Hichilema was one of the Presidential delegations to Ukraine and Russia. What special characteristic or recognition was given for the President to be amongst the Presidential delegation? Is it because of the history of Zambia or maybe, there was a special recognition of the President’s talent?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, without putting the President on the spot, I think what is also clear to us is that the credentials of our country have improved. Our involvement at that level has shown the progress that we have made. However, perhaps we should give some credit to the President. I think the President has represented our country well as the Chief salesperson for the country. The President has done well. That is why Zambia is able to engage even at that level, and we shall continue to do so.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, my question is a bit similar to the hon. Member for Kaumbwe Constituency. I would like to welcome the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation back home. We do not know when he will be going back again.

Madam Speaker, did the African Leaders go to Europe as the African Union (AU) or as a special delegation chosen by the AU?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, the group of Heads of State that made that African initiative was carefully selected. I must mention here that the composition did not allow for a leader of the delegation. It was a group of African Leaders. In the same composition, we also had President Azali of Comoros who is the current Chairperson of the AU. In that composition, we had President Macky Sall, the immediate past Chairperson of the AU.

So, in that respect, the AU made deliberate internal steps to select a group of African leaders to represent the whole of Africa in those negotiations. I think they did a sterling job to start the actual negotiations for Africa to put its own footprint on the process to the road to peace. I think Zambia was well-represented and we need to do more to ensure more peace in our own region and outside Africa. As a country, such are the steps that help to improve and elevate our own credentials that are already solid in conflict resolution.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

Since there are only two more hon. Members who have indicated, we can accommodate them. There is the hon. Member for Bwacha and finally, the hon. Member for Mpika.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the ministerial statement. What measurable outcomes are we expecting and what timeframe are we giving especially that the delegation of Presidents engaged the Russian President and the Ukrainian President?

Mr Kakubo: Madam Speaker, I do not wish to be pre-emptive in answering that question. However, to repeat what I have already said, this war situation is a very complicated one. At this stage, just after one visit by African leaders, I think putting a timeframe would be incorrect. It is too early. Many things came out and we must allow the due process to happen.

Madam Speaker, because of this question, I want to say that there are other initiatives that are being made by other world leaders to ensure that there is peace between Ukraine and Russia. So, the initiative by African leaders is not in any way competing with other initiatives that are there. We must do our part as Africa. I think ultimately, all efforts are leading to a peaceful resolution without any timelines attached at this stage.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. Finally, we will have the hon. Member for Mpika.

Mr Kapyanga: On point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Then that concludes the ministerial statement.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that very good statement. However, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation veered off his statement and started bringing in the issue of musicians. He said that in the past, musicians were being part of the President’s trips, without cogent evidence against Standing Order No. 65. Was the hon. Minister in order to do that?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Mpika is himself out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

SHORTAGE OF WATER IN ITEZHI-TEZHI URBAN DISTRICT

308. Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-tezhi) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

whether the Government is aware that in the last week, there has been a critical shortage of water in Itezhi-tezhi Urban District; and
if so, what urgent measures are being taken to improve the water reticulation system in the district and avert waterborne diseases?

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government is aware that there has been a critical shortage of water in Itezhi-tezhi District for the past week. This is due to the failure of pumps at the water treatment plant, which has been attributed to the unstable power supply. To put water supply service provision in the context of the urban areas of Itezhi-tezhi District, the House may wish to note that Zesco Limited has been producing and treating drinking water whilst Lukanga Water Supply and Sanitation Company (LgWSC) has been distributing water to customers in Kataba and Masemu wards.

Madam Speaker, the following are the urgent measures being undertaken to improve the water reticulation system in the district:

the Government with support from the Itezhi-tezhi Power Corporation and Zesco Limited is working on replacing the failed water pumps. The equipment has already been procured and was delivered in Itezhi-tezhi. However, it requires some modifications for it to be successfully installed. The water supply situation is likely to normalise by 1^st July, 2023;
LgWSC lobbied for resources from Itezhi-tezhi Power Corporation for designing adequate water production and distribution systems as a long-term intervention for stable water supply in Itezhi-tezhi; and
the ministry is also in the process of arranging for a water bowser to supply water in times of emergencies to the urban areas of Itezhi-tezhi District.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the LgWSC has engaged Itezhi-tezhi Power Corporation to construct a water plant. Would the hon. Minister kindly clarify whether that engagement is coming from the LgWSC or it is part of the Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) from Itezhi-tezhi Power Corporation.

Madam Speaker, for the long-term solution to the water crisis in Itezhi-tezhi, the one the hon. Minister has mentioned, what is the timeline for a new plant to be constructed?

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Two questions have been asked.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I mentioned that the LgWSC has managed to lobby the Itezhi-tezhi Power Corporation. Now, as to whether that is part of its CSR, I may not be aware. What is important here is that there has been that engagement between Itezhi-tezhi Power Corporation and the LgWSC in order to design and build a water treatment plant as a long-term measure to cater for the ever-growing population of Itezhi-tezhi District.

Madam Speaker, allow me not to provide timelines here because these are issues that require resources to be put together. Suffice to say that we are taking this direction.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

This is a constituency-based question.

Mr Mutinta indicated.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi, you have exhausted your questions. You have asked two questions already.

Hon. Members, please, let us not bring in other constituencies. So, I will allow the hon. Members for Mufulira and the hon. Member for Magoye to ask their questions.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, in Itezhi-tezhi, the area that has piped water, is among many across the country that face critical shortages of water supply. The hon. Minister mentioned in his statement that plans were underway to organise a water bowser, in the interim, to supply water to the area. However, I also know that many of the water utility companies are struggling with lack of water bowsers. Is the ministry not putting in plans to help the water utility companies with the provision of water bowsers across the country?

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mufulira!

You were guided. This question is in relation to Itezhi-tezhi District.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, Itezhi-tezhi District is surrounded by huge water bodies. What problem is preventing the water company from supplying water to the people in Itezhi-tezhi in time? What challenge is the company facing that is making it fail to deliver the necessary commodity?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, it is true that Itezhi-tezhi is one of the districts with many water bodies. However, the biggest problem, in terms of water supply, is as a result of old water infrastructure in the district. This is why we are saying that there has been some engagement between Itezhi-tezhi Power Corporation Limited and the LgWSC to ensure that we design, and, hopefully, resources allowing, build a new plant. A new plant would be equal to the task to produce and supply adequate water to the ever-growing district. So, the biggest problem is infrastructure. As the hon. Member heard in my statement, the challenge that has been faced in that area in the past week has been as a result of the failure of the pumps which are quite old.

Madam Speaker, again, sometimes, the loss of water supply is a result of power failure. The hon. Member may wish to note that almost all our utility companies have to depend on power supply from Zesco Limited to pump water to their catchment areas. So, at any point, when the power supply company is not able to supply power, it means that we experience a shutdown. So, some of the critical shortages that we experience in various commercial utilities (CUs), sometimes, is as a result of power failure. So, when Zesco Limited is undertaking maintenance activities, it means that we are not able to produce and supply water.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta indicated.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi.

You asked a two-in-one question. So, you exhausted your chances. We only allow two supplementary questions.

Let us make progress.

PROCUREMENT OF A MOTOR VEHICLE FOR THE POLICE IN LUMEZI

309. Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

whether the Government has any plans to procure a motor vehicle for the police in Lumezi District; and
if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to “procur” motor vehicles for the Zambia Police Service to cater for all constituencies in Zambia using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), and Lumezi District will benefit from that “procurment.”

Madam Speaker, the “procurment” process is in progress.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am most grateful for the hon. Minister’s response. As the hon. Minister may be aware, he allowed us to form the ward development committees (WDCs) that make decisions on what the people need. Lumezi seats on 5,200 km²of land. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which usurped the powers of the WDCs –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Just ask your supplementary question. Do not debate. You are bringing in issues where you are asking for other answers that are not related to the question on the Floor. Just ask your supplementary question.

You may proceed.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, Lumezi seats on 5,200 km²of land. Is the hon. Minister sure that the vehicle that will be procured by the CDF will do the necessary job?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, if one vehicle is not adequate, I can ask the hon. Member to buy another one through the CDF.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister just indicated that the procurement of this –

Mr Nkandu: No, procur!

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: The hon. Minister used his mother language, and I am also using my mother language.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the procurement of that vehicle for Lumezi and other constituencies is in process. When is that process ending? Is it this month, next month, or in September?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I was assured that the first batch of vehicles will start arriving in the country within the following month.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, we are not talking about the vehicle that will be used by me, as an hon. Member. It will be used by the people who brought me to this House. Which money will we use to buy another vehicle, especially that the hon. Minister has encouraged me to buy another vehicle?

I seek the hon. Minister’s serious your guidance because the people in Lumezi are listening, and this is not a matter that we can dramatise. People transport suspects of cattle thefts to Lundazi, …

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You have asked your question. Do not debate it. Let the hon. Minister answer.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I did indicate that my hon. Colleague could still graciously use the CDF to purchase another vehicle. Money is available either this year or next year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister mention the word, “procur”. What is to “procur?” Is it to demolish, to buy, or to fix?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chinsali!

I am sure you have had sight of the Order Paper and the word you are referring to is in there. It is just a manner in which you choose to pronounce it. So, that is not a question.

Let us make progress.

CONSTRUCTION OF THE MUSELE/SOBINGI ROAD IN LUPOSOSHI

310. Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda (Lupososhi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

why the construction of the Musele/Sobingi Road in Lupososhi Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;
when the project will resume;
what the cost of the project is; and
what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I wish to –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that the construction of the Musele/Sobingi Road in Lupososhi Parliamentary Constituency has stalled due to the non-availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, the project will resume as soon as funds are made available. The cost of the project was K367,114,878.20. The time frame for the completion of this project will only be known once a new contract is signed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s fellow members of the Cabinet like the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts, the hon. Minister of Technology and Science, and the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, can attest to the quality of work that has been done by this contractor. I think he is one of the best local contractors in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the phrase, “when funds will be available” has always been used by the hon. Minister and several others on the Floor of this House. Now, when will the funds be available so that the Government can continue to construct the Musele/Sobingi Road in Lupososhi Parliamentary Constituency?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Lupososhi for the additional information he has shared with me about the assessment of the contractor called Continental Labour-Based Road Contractors Limited. I have not taken particular interest in this particular contractor but now that the hon. Member has rated him among the best, and that I should ask the three hon. Members here like the Member for Lunte, Hon. Kafwaya, Hon. Mutati and Hon. Mubanga, I will definitely do so. I doubt if those hon. Members have the same quality of know-how in rating the contractor as the hon. Member for Lupososhi but I thank him for that information.

Mr Speaker, this contract commenced in 2014 and 52.2 km was supposed to have been constructed in Luwingu District, in the Northern Province. The initial sum was K64,866,668.13. When the revision was done, the sum jumped from K64,866,668.13 to K367,114,878.20. Maybe, it was because he was a supper contractor.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I now understand why there was a jump. It is because he was a super contractor. The initial date of commencement of this contract was 11^th August, 2014. This was about seven years before the United Party for National Development (UPND) came into power. The initial completion date was supposed to be on 25^th August, 2015, a year later. It is now about six years from the date of completion of that project.

Mr Speaker, from the emotional undertaking of this question from my hon. Colleague and friend, you can tell that things went wrong between 2014 and 2015. What clearly went wrong? How could there have been a variation of the contract price from K64,866,668.13 to K367,114,878.20, on a 52 km stretch? Something is definitely not adding up here.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: I did not say that. So, the revised completion date – On 20^th August, 2015, the work failed to finish. There was a revised completion date of 24^th August, 2019, but the contract failed to finish. The ones who were in Government then were the Patriotic Front (PF).

Interruptions

Hon. Mukosa interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chinsali.

Mr Nkombo: There was another revised date of completion (VO2) of 24^th August, 2019. Again in 2019, it is clear that the PF Government was governing. There was a third revision (VO3), on 24^thAugust, 2021. This was three days after the General Election. This contract was revised three days after the elections by some civil servant. It obviously raised some suspicion.

Mr Speaker, I have said before and I will say it again that since there is so much passion about the well-being and the super nature of this contractor, we have since terminated all these contracts for reasons that are well-known by this House, because they were not sustainable to keep on our books. I made a cordial invitation to all the contractors who may feel aggrieved or bereaved to approach the court, so that we could go and talk about these issues that I have just read.

Mr Speaker, suffice to say, we are interested. Now that we have restructured part of our foreign debt, it will obviously give us some breathing space to pursue some other economic and social programmes.

Mr Speaker, the point is that we will ask and beg for their indulgence to be patient so that we try and fix what they damaged, as a political party that was in power at that time. We urge them to be a bit more patient so that we can make good of what they did bad.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda: Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister confirm that the contract was revised from K64 million to K300 million because three major bridges on three big rivers were not included in the initial contract, and the people of Lupososhi demanded for the construction of those three bridges.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, I heard the hon. Minister making the official Government’s position that the contract was revised. So, what should he confirm again?

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda: Mr Speaker, there were three bridges that were added to the contract. The hon. Minister’s insinuation is that the contract was revised because of what he is claiming the Patriotic Front (PF) did. The truth of the matter is that the contract was revised because three big bridges were added to the contract. That is the position and I want the hon. Minister to confirm on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker: Hon Member, you are so passionate about the contractor. May the hon. Minister shed more light on that.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question, which he, as a matter of fact, answered for himself. My own simple description of such is that he is being melodramatic in that he knows the answer yet he is asking the question. I said a minute ago, that there was a revision from the initial K64 million to K367 million. I was not there at the time when they were doing these revisions, the Bill of Quantity (BOQ) and variations. However, I want to confirm, and double confirm that this, as I have read it, is the position of the answer that the hon. Member, my dear colleague and friend wishes to have. There will be no other than this. This is the way we answer and we answer factually.

Mr Speaker, as to whether there were bridges or culverts or anything like that, I am speaking about the road itself, the 52.2 km stretch. The hon. Member seems to have inside information of the contract content because he may have knowledge about this company. I do not know the company from a bar of soap. I do not know it. So, I can go and just check and give him more details to see why the variations happened. However, the fact of the matter is that within a period of one year, there were variations. This is why I have said, time and again that these contracts were being done anyhow. What kind of reasoning can one give for the same stretch of 52 km to switch or to change dramatically from K68 million to K347 million?

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, there was something wrong and these are figures that were never contained in the annual Budget from that period up to date. The prudent thing that we did ourselves, for example, what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, his colleagues and our President did, was to sit down and discuss how they could make the debt sustainable because this is part of the local debt. We took over this debt from our hon. Colleagues. We did not duck. We took it over and in our own little limited wisdom, it was easier to terminate all these contracts so that we clean up, sanitise and remove the malaise that the previous Government left. We did this so that we could breathe and think straight because if we continued with this contractor as a specific case and many others, we would have been choked with debt. However, I am so happy as the hon. Minister responsible for this ministry that we took that decision.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker when the variation amount is above 25 per cent of the contract amount, from the figures he is giving us, from K68 million to K368 million, obviously, that is way above the 25 per cent threshold. The contract is supposed to be retendered. In awarding or in extending the contract to the same contractor, was the contract retendered before it was given to the same contractor who seems to have attracted a lot of interest from our hon. Members on the left?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, from what I have provided as an answer, I want the hon. Member for Kankoyo to understand that this is precisely what the anomaly was. The hon. Member has put it in a better term than I would have put it because it was a financial flow that any variation that is above 25 per cent must go back to tender. When I said that these contracts were laced with criminality, they were saying that I am being melodramatic. This is a typical case that should have gotten the awarding officer to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) to be investigated, how they could vary this flow by over 200 per cent, when the regulations are clear that anything that is varied above 25 per cent of the original cost must go back to tender. These are the problems that we inherited, hon. Member for Kankoyo. The consolation is that we are up to the task, no matter how long it takes, we are going to put right what went wrong by those who were there before us.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events. I wanted to ask a similar question but in a different manner.

I thank you, Sir.

CLIMATE CHANGE MITIGATION PROGRAMMES IN SOUTHERN PROVINCE

311. Mr Malambo (Magoye) asked the Minister of Green Economy and Environment:

(a) whether the Government has any climate change mitigation programmes in Southern Province;

(b) if so, whether a massive tree planting programme is one of the measures under consideration; and

(c) if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity. I would like to bring greetings and thanks to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, for the wonderful works of debt restructuring and also, trying to bring peace in the world. This is commendable and we will continue on this path. We are indeed, in the champions league.

Mr Speaker, yes, the Government currently, has a number of climate change mitigation programmes in the Southern Province including:

tree plantation management: The Government is managing 410 hectares comprising of twenty-four compartments of plantation covering 41 hectares. Of these, sixteen are pine compartments covering 41 hectares and eight eucalyptus covering almost 140 hectares. There are community plantations of 500 hectares found in different parts of the province such as Mazabuka and Choma, growing at different levels. Promotion of plantations is also being promoted in degraded areas;
restoration of land in extent of 1000 hectares in the Kazungula, Katombola forest reserve has been set aside for assisted natural regeneration of the teak tree species;
there is farmer management natural regeneration of over 1.5 million seedlings and natural regeneration which targets at farmers that have been involved in Pemba, Namwala and Mazabuka Districts; and
rehabilitation of river catchment areas and gullies. The Government is working with the support from The Deutsche Gesellschaft für Internationale Zusammenarbeit GmbH, (GIZ) under the Accelerate Water and Agricultural Resources Efficiency (AWARE) project which has prioritised planting of trees to rehabilitate river catchment areas and gullies in Mazabuka and Pemba. There is a further restorative programme that aims to a similar effort in Chirundu and Siavonga areas in order to manage the degraded lands.

Mr Speaker, a robust tree planting programme is one of the measures under consideration with a total of over 600,000 seedlings just in one season. There has been a lot of effort in the past to help communities and stakeholders to manage these trees. So far, K2.5 million has been raised and managed from planted areas under forest regeneration that mainly concentrated in Kazungula and Choma. Concession areas that are degraded were also targeted through direct seedlings from mother trees in the wild. The province has further reported towards the restoration programme a further 470,000 planted trees in the province.

Mr Speaker, the Government has prioritised the tree planting programme not only in the Southern Province but also, across the country from 2022 to 2023.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malambo: Mr Speaker, the Southern Province is becoming a semi-desert, aggressively so. Looking at what is happening in the valley, where people are selling a lot of charcoal predominantly on the Bottom Road, does the ministry have any facility which our forest rangers are using to monitor the activities that are going on in the valley? The depletion of trees in the valley is culminating in climate change in the Southern Province.

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, indeed, the Southern Province has seen devastation from the negative effects of climate change. When you look at the Southern Province, historically, that is a province which provided a lot of food to the rest of the country. This meant that many farming units were opened, now resulting into some of these negative effects. In the Southern Province, indeed, many areas are what you may call, “near deserts.” With the advent of climate change, that region is receiving less and less rainfall leading to food insecurity. What are the measures we are trying to put? Obviously, one of them is the efforts we are making in ensuring that mitigation measures are upped.

Mr Speaker, we have been chatting a lot about what mitigation is all about. For the information of hon. Members here, mitigation is basically about reducing climate change. It involves reducing the flow of heat trapping greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. One of the best ways for us is by reducing sources of these greenhouse gases which are mainly produced by burning fossil fuels for electricity. We are looking at enhancing the sinks that accumulate and store these gases. These mainly are the forests. So, afforestation and reforestation are measures which we want to up. We have been also calling upon all hon. Members of Parliament here not only to enhance communication and advocacy but also, to join us in planting trees.

Mr Speaker, another plan that we believe will enhance these mitigation measures is to have an additional budget support to us. So, when I heard that Hon. Dr Musokotwane clinched that deal, I know very well the heart he has for the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment. We have every confidence that he will up the Budget support from a mere 0.5 per cent to between 1.5 per cent to 2 per cent. This will really contribute to the mitigation efforts in the Southern Province. Congratulations to Hon. Dr Musokotwane and we look forward to more funding to this sector to ensure that the negative effects of climate change in the Southern Province are addressed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the Southern Province is actually becoming a semi-desert. I appreciate the mitigation measures that the ministry has put in place. Is the ministry considering creating a data climate processing centre in the Southern Province, where members of communities together with other organisations and farmers can go and access information concerning climate change?

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, the meteorological data we are collecting to see how the climate is changing is now readily available not only at the Zambia Meteorological Department but, in all areas. The House may recall that when I came to Parliament, we talked about more effective ways of disseminating this information. Once it is generated at the Zambia Meteorological Department, and it is translated into local languages, we engage many radio stations to ensure that our people are aware of what is happening. Bulletins are also frequently chained out.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Members will recall that when I came to this House, I informed the House that one of the biggest users of meteorological information is the Ministry of Agriculture. So, we are collaborating very, very closely with the ministry. Since they have many centres around the country, this meteorological data is very readily available to them for their use to increase productivity in the agriculture sector. It also used in the tourism, aviation and transportation sector and for people’s livelihoods.

Mr Speaker, you recall that not too long ago, there were bulletins about the increased temperatures in June in the country, averaging more than 2 deg over and above the normal average. This is basically to inform how irrigation should be done going forward and how other activities should be done. So, yes, indeed, the measures will be increased. This House was also informed that we installed about 120 automatic stations. All these measures are to ensure that there is quality data collected, processed and disseminated.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, from the drought of 1993, the ecological status of the Southern Province has been dwindling every rainy season, meaning that surface water, groundwater and many other factors surrounding ecological issues are affected. This has adverse effects on both human beings as well as animals.

Mr Speaker, if you go by the reports that we have received in this House, you will realise that more than half of the cattle, which is 4 million plus cattle in this country, is coming from the Southern Province. The same applies to goats and pigs. This means that the effect we are estimating is fast. This means there must be pasture and many other ecological factors.

Mr Speaker, is planting trees the only solution that can improve the ecological status of the Southern Province or are there other means that the Government is considering, like water harvesting and many others? I think I will leave that to the hon. Minister. What I have heard from his answer is that planting trees seems to be the panacea to the problem in the Southern Province.

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi for that elaborate question, and for helping me to answer partly his question.

Indeed, the 1993, drought was devastating to the province. It had a lot of adverse effects on people. Ways for restoration of the ecological system, which the hon. Member says have been disturbed, and I agree with him, are obviously afforestation and reforestation. Whether we like it or not, ensuring that we have enough carbon sinks in that area will go a long way in our mitigation measures. However, for the hon. Member’s comfort and for his own information, the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment, working with the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, has embarked on several projects there. One of them is a programme supported and financed by Germany, called the Accelerated Water and Agricultural Resources Efficiency (AWARE), which we actually commissioned with the hon. Member for Magoye, my good friend, Hon. Mweemba Malambo. This programme is meant to restore the Magoye River project.

Mr Speaker, the Magoye River project is an ongoing project. One of the ways is to ensure that whatever developments we carry out in that area are low carbon, be it in the agriculture sector, tourism sector, water sector or mining sector. Another way is by resetting the way we utilise our natural resource efficiency. Ensuring that the third pillar of the green economy, social inclusivity, is incorporated in whatever we do, will ensure that the degraded landscape is restored. Basically, we need to ensure there is resource efficiency. The resource which is there must be utilised in a way that leaves it good enough for future generations to live in. So, there are various –

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member talked about water harvesting, and I agree with him. We are not only working against the draught in that area but also, trying to work with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to have climate-smart infrastructure. The flooding in the Southern Province led to the destruction of many of our dams. Indeed, I agree with the hon. Member that as a major source of beef production in the country, the Southern Province was devastated. So, I invite all hon. Members of Parliament to see how we can together respond to the challenges of climate change.

I thank you, Mr Speaker

Mr Simuzingili (Gweembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has articulated the mitigation measures which include tree planting very well.

Mr Speaker, as hon. Member of Parliament, we would like to join the ministry in the tree planting exercise but the challenge we have is that these days, we do not have nurseries. In short, there are no trees to plant. For instance, if one wants to plant trees in Gwembe, one has to travel 90 km to get the plants. Has the ministry put any measures in place to make sure that every district has a tree nursery, like it used to be in the past, as a way of encouraging our people to plant trees?

Mr Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Member for Gwembe, Hon. Simuzingili, (Sims) for that very good question. In answering his question, I want to solicit again, the support of this House to see how the hon. Members can come together. Mr Speaker, the House will recall that the forest sector has not been functioning as well as it should have for a very long time. During the structural adjustment times, many foresters were retired. There has not been so much support in that sector. We have indeed, improved in the last one or two years but it has not been good enough.

Mr Speaker, we need money and support in all the districts to ensure that we come up with the necessary seedlings to ensure that forest restoration and afforestation activities are done. This requires money. This also requires that we employ more foresters and forest guards. I want to appeal to this House that even as we experience the negative effects of climate change, we must put money where our mouths are. We must support each other. The environment is changing, and this is a reality. We need to ensure that we do something about it, collectively. The ministry alone will not do it. One of the biggest places where we think we can get help is from Parliament itself. Hon. Members of Parliament should play their part. We want to see hon. Members of Parliament become emotional about environmental protection, just like they become emotional about many other things.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mufalali (Nominated): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to ask a follow-up question. May I join other hon. Colleagues who congratulated the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for the job well done in finding a solution to our debt through debt structuring.

Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for answering the questions in a manner that is befitting. My question is: Mainly, it is the people of the valley who are seriously affected by this climate change. One of the mitigation measures that the ministry is putting in place is to do a bit of tree planting. There are corporations that are operating and benefiting from the valley through the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) and the dam itself. Has the hon. Minister engaged some of these corporations in order for them to have a deliberate policy that will include the people of the valley and the Southern Province in particular, in tree planting?

Mr Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Mufalali for that very important question. Indeed, because of climate change, the people of the valley are receiving less and less rainfall. Indeed, there is food insecurity in that area and yet, it is an area, as the hon. Member rightly put it, where the country generates its power production from. One of the policy pronouncements by His Excellency the President, was to ensure that industries operating in particular areas must up their Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR). A percentage of their revenues should remain in that area. I am sure this is already being done because when commissioning the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station (KGL), there was a directive like that.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members will also recall that many years ago, there was what was called the Gwembe Tonga project in that area, which really helped our people to ensure that they improved their livelihoods. The various companies operating in the various regions are also being encouraged to ensure that the livelihoods of the people, those who provide their labour to the various activities in those areas are supported. To answer the hon. Member’s question, in short, yes, we are talking to the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) and every other entity operating in that area to ensure that they help our people.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Due to time, I will ask the owner of the question, the hon. Member for Magoye, to ask the last question.

Mr Malambo: Mr Speaker, I sincerely appreciate the way the hon. Minister is answering these questions.

Mr Speaker, are we considering replanting indigenous trees in areas where trees have been depleted? I think natural trees are really good in those areas compared to exotic ones.

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, let me thank my fellow hon. Member of Parliament for that very important question. Indeed, we are considering planting natural trees. We must appreciate that the capacity of most of the Miombo forests to regenerate is very high. Once those areas are protected by ensuring that there is fire control and less degradation, the natural regeneration will be very high.

Mr Speaker, one day, I will come back to the House and state how we are promoting the protection of the environment which can benefit the carbon markets. That is another area where we are trying to up the game to ensure that more and more people come to partner with our local communities to see how they can gain from that market. Indeed, hon. Member, another area we think should be upped is basically communication and advocacy. We need to talk to our people more and more to ensure that other sustainable ways of utilisation of natural resources are upped.

Mr Speaker, may I again, call upon Hon. Dr Musokotwane to ensure that he supports the Budget of the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment. It is only when the Budget is upped that we can plant more trees so that the mitigation measures are enhanced. We should unite as one House to ensure that there is environmental protection.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

TOURISM POTENTIAL IN CHINSALI DISTRICT

312. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Tourism:

(a) whether there is tourism potential in Chinsali District; and

(b) if so, what measures are being taken to harness the potential.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) (on behalf of the Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba)): Mr Speaker, I wish inform the House that there is tourism potential in Chinsali District. Some of the sites that have tourism potential are Chipoma Falls, Lubwa Mission, Lenshina Burial Grave and Shambalakale, among others.

Mr Speaker, sites like the Chipoma Falls and Lubwa Mission have been declared as national monuments, a measure aimed at enhancing their visibility, preservation and protection. The Government has also sought to support and promote tourism infrastructure development at Chipoma Falls, where a tourism concession was signed with the private sector. Unfortunately, the concessionaire has not expedited the work and this matter is being looked into.

Mr Speaker, in addition, the Government, through the Muchinga Province Administration will be holding the Muchinga Province Exhibition this year from 3^rdOctober, 2023 to 8^th October, 2023, which will, among others, showcase and promote the tourism potential in Muchinga Province, particularly, Chinsali District. In this regard, the ministry will take advantage of this opportunity to highlight the tourism potential of the region and the existing opportunities for partnering with the private sector.

Mr Speaker, further, the initiative by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) to connect all the Government institutions with power in Chinsali District will harness tourism in the district.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, the answer that the hon. Minister has provided is clear. No more questions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I followed the hon. Minister when he talked about the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). Now, what other incentives is this Government going to put to attract investors in the tourism sector in the Northern Circuit?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning did dispatch a number of incentives in the tourism sector in this year’s Budget. This includes duty-free importation of various tourism infrastructure. I am sure those will drive tourism in Muchinga Province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

USE OF DRONES TO TRANSPORT MEDICAL AND AGRICULTURAL DRUGS

313. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

(a) whether the Government has any plans to engage private companies to start using drones to transport medical and agricultural drugs to areas that are difficult to reach by road;

(b) if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c) which companies have expressed interest in undertaking the exercise.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to promote the use of drone technology to transport medical and agricultural drugs, particularly, to areas that are hard to reach by road. The House may wish to note that drone technologies have proved useful for practical applications in various fields including agriculture and health. At a time when the Government is committed to efficient, improved service delivery, and reduction in transaction costs, drone technology remains a viable option to address specific challenges and provide valuable solutions to critical areas such as health and agriculture. The Government will, therefore, partner with the private sector to enhance the uptake and use of drone technology.

Mr Speaker, the Government has engaged the private sector from the region where this technology has been tried and tested for various purposes including, courier services in health and agriculture. This engagement has been useful and will form the basis for striking a working relationship with the private sector including the potential for public-private partnership (PPP).

Mr Speaker, the next step for the adoption of this technology is to create the institutional framework for the adoption of drone technology in the country. So far, two companies have shown interest in working, collaborating and partnering with the Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, in Central and East Africa, in Rwanda, there is a company called ‘Ziplin’, which is involved in transporting blood to areas that are very difficult to reach. I want to find out from the hon. Minister if ‘Ziplin’, a Rwandan-based company has also shown interest in this.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, last week, we did visit a company called Zipline and not Ziplin, where we engaged in discussions for that company to bring the technology to Zambia.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that the level of technology that Zipline has put in place has been so revolutionary to the extent that Rwanda is exporting it to the United States of America (USA) and many other parts of Africa. It is for that reason that we actually went to engage this company so that we can also be part of the employment of this technology.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response. Before the drones start flying, will there be any sensitisation to the people of the North-Western Province?

Mr Kambita: Question!

Mr Mutinta: Mr Speaker, I am saying so because there is a possibility they might cite their hon. Member of Parliament for practicing witchcraft.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I partly grew up in the North-Western Province and witchcraft is not part of what the people of that area believe in.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, obviously, as we bring in any form of technology, part of the absorption is to create awareness. Indeed, we are going to create appropriate awareness of this technology which I think, will help a lot particularly, in agriculture and health as we saw in Rwanda.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that two companies have shown interest. Could he be in a position to mention the names of those companies to the nation and the people of the North-Western Province in particular, as the hon. Member for Mufumbwe has asked, so that the people are privy to those companies.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I have already said that Zipline is in discussion with the Government over its potential to invest in drone technology in the country. This is a very active company. We are still in negotiations with the second company and we are still evaluating its level of enthusiasm before we pronounce that we are fully engaged with it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, the 7,000 health kits which the Government ordered from India are arriving in the country starting tomorrow. Obviously, with the pressure of drugs that we have in the country, we will need to have these health kits delivered to all the 3,175 clinics across the country. Now, we are still in the negotiations stage to set up this technology which can quickly and safely deliver the drugs to the clinics. Is the hon. Minister of Technology and Science considering partnering with the Zambia Flying Doctor Service, which has been revamped, thanks to the New Dawn Government, and other private institutions so that as a country, we can also build capacity within Government institutions?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the conversation has elevated quite substantively because even the Zambia Flying Doctor Service was in Rwanda. So, the whole idea is that from a bulk, there is a sub-bulk and lastly, a smaller station, and a drone can only carry a limited quantity. In Rwanda, they are using drones particularly, for emergencies. When samples are gotten from the patients wherever they are, it can take days for those samples to reach the testing centre. With a drone, the turnaround time is very swift. So, firstly, they are used for critical interventions and then the next layer will be to build capacity for bulk deliveries. So, we need to have a layered approach in order to minimise the cost. We also need to see that the technology actually delivers in the environment of Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, I get worried when I hear that the hon. Minister is trying to borrow technology from Rwanda. Rwanda is simply exporting technology. Now, the hon. Minister knows how important it is for us to start using this technology. Looking at the colleges that we have in this country, like the University of Zambia (UNZA), the Zambia Information Communication Technology College (Zambia ICT College) and the Northern Technical College (NORTEC), does the hon. Minister not think it can be important for us to ask these schools to develop that technology? I know there are brainy students in those colleges but what is lacking is funding. Before we even start concentrating much on the imported drones or systems, does the Government have plans to come up with our own system that can make it easy for us to start delivering the services instead of having what the hon. Minister is promising us?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, what slows us down as a country and maybe, as the people, is when we always look at the Government for funding and solutions. The technology that we have referred to in Rwanda is 100 per cent private sector initiative. This will provide a solution to a challenge that the Government is facing. I would only urge my colleague to encourage the Zambian entrepreneurs to seize the opportunity to be able to deliver a solution and make money. They should not always look to the Government to provide resources. In Rwanda, it is purely a private sector initiative and that is the way to go.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, is there any Government policy to encourage our upcoming scientists to be more innovative, especially in drone formation?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, what we do not have in short supply in this country is the ability to be creative or innovative. As it is now, any technology that we would want to bring or create, we have a critical mass in this country, that is actually doing wonders. So, there is no absence of creativity and innovation in this country. All we do as the Government is to have an enabling framework to provide a supporting framework to realise this innovative and creative potential of the people of Zambia particularly, the younger ones. This also applies to sport.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, these drones, if not controlled, can be used for terrorist activities. What conditionalities are actually attached for one to fly or control a drone?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the simple word is regulation. One needs to have a regulatory framework in place. That is why even aeroplanes from different countries fly across. This is because we have standards and regulations that allow people to fly at a particular altitude, that permit people to carry a particular cargo and land in a particular place. If people do not do those things, there are penalised. So, the hon. Member should not worry about the regulations. We have strong and reliable regulations to control even the drones that are going to fly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL GUIDANCE AND GENDER MATTERS ON ACHIEVING THE 50/50 GENDER PARITY IN GOVERNANCE AND DECISION-MAKING POSITIONS IN ZAMBIA

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on National Guidance and Gender Matters on Achieving the 50/50 Gender Parity in Governance and Decision-Making Positions in Zambia, for the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 14^th June, 2023.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, I second the Motion.

Mr Kamboni: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference set out in Standing Orders No. 197(g) and 198, of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 2021, your Committee considered the topic entitled, “Achieving the 50/50 Gender Parity in Governance and Decision-Making Positions in Zambia.”

Mr Speaker, I believe that the hon. Members of this august House have read your Committee report and I will, therefore, only highlight a few concerns encountered by your Committee.

Mr Speaker, while your Committee acknowledges that gender mainstreaming is a key factor both in the private and public sector, it is concerned that there is no Ministry of Gender to spearhead the integration of a gender perspective into the preparation, design, implementation, monitoring and evaluation of policies, regulatory measures and spending programmes, with a view to promoting equality between women and men. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government should consider re-establishing the Ministry of Gender with structural and functional linkages to core and line ministries, agencies and departments to ensure that gender equality and women empowerment are achieved in the country.

Mr Speaker, your Committee had the opportunity to interact with the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) and the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) during its long meeting. Your Committee learnt that these two institutions have developed gender action plans aimed at attaining 50/50 gender parity in decision-making positions as gender policies and strategies are very progressive in achieving gender parity. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that both public and private bodies consider developing special measures through affirmative action or positive discrimination, on merit, to attain the 50/50 parity goal in decision-making positions.

Mr Speaker, further, your Committee recommends that when making appointments or nominations, both public and private bodies should comply with Article 259 of the Constitution of Zambia to ensure that 50 per cent of each gender is nominated or appointed from the total available positions. This is critical for the attainment of the 50/50 gender parity goal.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is very concerned that the Gender Equity and Equality Commission has not been operationalised since the enactment of the Gender Equity and Equality Act, No. 22 of 2015. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should consider operationalising the commission which is a creature of the Constitution at the earliest possible time. This will ensure that issues concerning gender equality as well as accountability for gender equity and policies are monitored, investigated, researched and reported on through mainstreaming of gender. The commission will be instrumental in the monitoring and promotion of gender equality and equity in positions of governance and decision-making. Most of the countries have this commission

Mr Speaker, as this august House is aware, education is an equaliser. In this regard, education is critical for promoting gender equality by providing individuals with knowledge, skills and values to challenge gender stereotypes and promote equal rights. Your Committee, therefore, recommends the review of school curricular at early childhood, primary, secondary, higher education and tertiary levels so as to integrate gender matters in formal and informal education systems. This can be done by adequately investing in developing materials, human expertise, institutions required to provide comprehensive and educational opportunities and resources on gender equality in areas of leadership, decision-making in a sustainable manner.

Mr Speaker, to conclude, you will recall that your Committee undertook local tours to Central, Lusaka and Southern Provinces to augment the finding of the long meeting. One of the key findings of your Committee was that Zambia’s patriarchal society represents a major structural barrier; traditionally assigning more power and resources to men than women. Your Committee was informed that when women venture into politics, for example, in defiance of cultural norms and beliefs, they often face intense backlash and hostility, and this discourages them from furthering their political ambitions.

Mr Speaker, in this regard, the Committee recommends for heightened awareness campaigns and gender sensitisation to help people examine their personal attitudes and beliefs with regard to gender roles. Sensitisation will help people understand the difference between sex and gender, how gender is socially constructed and the stereotypes around gender roles.

Mr Speaker, finally, the Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you and the Clerk of National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to it throughout its deliberations. The Committee is also indebted to all the stakeholders who appeared before it for their cooperation in providing the necessary memoranda and for appearing before it to clarify any matters arising from their written submissions.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr E. Banda: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, allow me to start by congratulating His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia and the able hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Musokotwane for making sure that Zambia’s debt is restructured.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr E. Banda: It is a good question.

Laughter

Mr E. Banda: Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Motion to adopt the report of the Committee on National Guidance and Gender Matters on the 50/50 Gender Parity in Governance and Decision-Making Position in Zambia for the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly so ably moved by the Chairperson.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, I wish to state that I agree with the mover of the Motion on the need to re-establish the ministry responsible for gender and the actualisation of the Gender Equity and Equality Commission for the reasons highlighted by the Chairperson. It is the Committee’s view that gender mainstreaming is limited due to the two factors that the mover of the Motion stated.

Mr Speaker, your Committee resolved to consider the subject matter in response to a worrying stagnation in women political representation in leadership and positions of decision-making.

Mr Speaker, your Committee resolved to consider the subject matter in response to worrying stagnation in women’s political representation in leadership and positions of decision-making.

Mr Speaker, various stakeholders and your Committee are of the considered view that it is high time this House enacted comprehensive subsidiary legislation to level the playing field to address identified barriers to women’s participation in governance and decision-making positions.

Sir, Article 259(1)(b) of the Constitution of Zambia is very clear, and it states:

“(1) Where a person is empowered to make a nomination or an appointment to a public office, that person shall ensure–

(b) that fifty percent of each gender is nominated or appointed from the total available positions, unless it is not practicable.”

Mr Speaker, with such a provision in the supreme law of the land, where does the problem lie, for us to still be talking about gender parity in positions of decision-making for women? It is critical that such provisions are accompanied by high levels of political will to ensure full implementation.

Mr Speaker, there is need to institute gender sensitisation in electoral laws and also, recognise the economic constraints of women, including minimal nomination fees and stricter laws during campaigns to reduce political violence.

Mr Speaker, one issue that consistently came out from the stakeholders is the issue of violence. Violence makes women stay away from politics for their safety.

Mr Speaker, one type of violence against women is cyberbullying. Most of the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee spoke about cyberbullying as a main challenge that makes women stay away from politics.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Ensure that you stick to your script. At times, you seem to be deviating a bit and people want to rise on points order.

Mr Kasandwe: He is reading!

Mr E. Banda: No! I am not reading. These are the points that I wrote in my own handwriting.

The hon. Member is saying that I am reading. I have to refer to my notes for me to be on point. I want to make sure that the report is properly spiced.

Hon. Members: Copy notes!

Mr E. Banda: Mr Speaker, I was saying that GBV is the reason most women are not in decision-making positions such as political ones.

Interruptions

Mr E. Banda: Mr Speaker, there is need to prioritise interventions to tackle the scourge of violence in politics. This has led to many women not taking part in politics for their safety. This will result in increased participation of women in positions of decision-making.

Mr Speaker, child marriage is another problem that has robbed this country of many potential women who could have taken these decision-making positions. Girls are married off at a tender age and they are robbed of their rights to attain good education and compete in decision-making positions.

Mr Speaker, your Committee, therefore, recommends that this House enforced minimum age for marriages, and close legal loopholes with regard to parental consent under customary law in order to reduce the impunity related to child marriages.

Mr Speaker, there is need for heightened sensitisation as Zambia has embodied patriarch tendencies, traditional rules and practices, which result in women being constrained from participating in social, economic and political empowerment.

Mr Speaker, women are mainly not allowed to challenge the authority of men. This type of segregation exists even in some religious sections. Women who seek positions of power are frowned upon. Women’s roles are restricted to being mothers and homemakers. Therefore, there is need for much sensitisation to ensure that women are given the freedom to fight for positions of decision-making even in religious sections.

Mr Speaker, in my conclusion, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you, and the Clerk of the National Assembly. It also wishes to thank the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee to make various submissions. Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the people of Mfuwe, to support and respond to the debate on the Motion to adopt the report that has been laid on the Floor of the House. Before I make my submission, I want to state that by not having many women in decision-making positions, actually, the Government is losing out because women are more accountable, honest, …

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Laughter

Ms Mabonga: … and hardworking. So, it is at the loss of the Government if it does not put more women in decision-making positions.

Mr Speaker, in terms of representation of women in decision-making positions, according to the report, we are performing poorly in Zambia at the moment. We have very progressive laws and policies. We are also signatories to different international conventions –

Mr Nkandu interjected.

Ms Mabonga: Mr Speaker, I need you to protect my from a man who does not want women to be in decision-making positions.

Hon. Member: One marketeer!

Ms Mabonga: One marketeer.

Laughter

Ms Mabonga: Mr Speaker, I even lost my train of thought but I will continue.

Interruptions

Ms Mabonga: Mr Speaker, I will speak on behalf of women. We, as women, are not pleased, …

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga: … with the fact that men have continued to rule over us, for lack of a better term, even though we are more in number. In this country, we have very progressive laws and good policies. We have also signed so many international conventions and treaties for us to be able to progress in terms of gender equity and equality. However, the problem that we are facing, which we have always had, is the issue of implementation of the laws that we make.

Mr Speaker, currently, we are sitting at 15 per cent women representation in Parliament. Even the laws that we are talking about would not be supported if we were to bring them to the House in that representation is below par. We cannot win a fight.

Mr Nkandu: Bring one!

Ms Mabonga: Yes, we will bring a law, and I hope that the male hon. Members will be able to support it.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga: The Constitution, Mr Speaker, provides for women representation. It says that we are all entitled, and we have equal fundamental rights and opportunities. We should be entitled to rights and opportunities to be in decision-making positions.

Mr Speaker, Article 259 talks about appointments. The appointing authority should ensure that it appoints an equal number of men and women for whatever positions. However, that has not been the case for Zambia, and it is regrettable.

Mr Speaker, the Government established the Gender Equity and Equality Commission that has not even been operationalised. Among the matters that we are talking about, the issue, for me, has been why we fail to implement the laws that we make, and why we make laws that we do not implement.

Mr Speaker, I want to recommend this Government to ensure that it brings back the ministry responsible for gender. Previously, we used to have the Ministry of Gander and Child Development but the moment the United Party for National Development (UPND) took over power, that ministry was abolished. The recommendation in the report urges the Government to bring that ministry back because it will be able to attend to some of these issues that we are talking about.

Mr Speaker, the other issue that has created a barrier for many women to get into decision-making positions is violence. My recommendation, just like everyone else has said, is that we need a level political playing field. There should be no room for violence. As women, we do not like violence. That is why I said that the Government is actually losing out by not having many women in decision-making positions. If there were more women in decision-making positions, we would not have the ambience that we have at the moment, which is so hostile. Women are peacemakers. We love peace and we just like to work hard. So, if we had many women in these positions, there would be no political violence. The Government should ensure that this is done because it will be a solution to the problem of political violence.

Mr Speaker, the other issue is that women are required to prove themselves more than men. So, in levelling the playing ground, women are not supposed to do more than men. For example, for many men, when they want to contest elections, the qualification is just a Grade 12 certificate. For women, it is different because most of the women who are seated here are masters and degree holders. People always ask what one has studied. For men, as long as they want to contest elections, they will be voted for.

Interruptions

Ms Mabonga: For women to contest elections, they need to prove themselves. So, there is no level playing ground for women. Therefore, the Government should ensure that it educates the people and also creates awareness.

Mr Speaker, in fact, that is why I began my debate by talking about some of the good things about women. I also said that the Government is missing out. We need honest people in the Government. We need people who are hard-working. For women, it is all about work.

Mr Speaker, we also need deliberate structured coaching and mentorship programmes for young women. For most of the women who are in Parliament, it is either they got their own information from somewhere or had private mentors who mentored them on how to be in politics. So, the Government must ensure that it makes these deliberate structures to create the environment for women who want to participate in leadership. This is where they can get information and be equipped for these positions.

Mr Speaker, I want to recommend the Government to enforce Article 259. If you look at the Cabinet at the moment, we are standing at 16 per cent in terms of women representation. The President could have done better. We have so many women who are in the United Party for National Development (UPND), who could have been appointed to serve in the Cabinet but unfortunately, most of them were left out. That is why our women representation is at 16 per cent. Women know their own problems and have their own solutions to their problems. My argument is that women are many in number and that is why they need more representation so that they can come up with their own solutions to the problems that they face as women.

Mr Speaker, there are so many things that I can say but will leave them for others. I support the report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Phiri (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on your Committee’s report on National Guidance and Gender Matters.

Mr Speaker, from the onset, whether people like it or not, I wish to state that it was a big mistake to abolish the Ministry of Gender and Child Development. Abolishing that ministry has not been very helpful. Instead, it has increased issues against women.

Mr Speaker, there is need to ensure that issues of gender are mainstreamed and conducted under a fully-fledged ministry responsible for gender. I wish, therefore, to urge the Government to re-introduce the ministry responsible for gender. In doing so, it will help in addressing issues of gender mainstreaming and the attention that it deserves. It is shameful that the Gender Equity and Equality Commission has not been operationalised. The commission should be made operational as soon as possible because it will help in investigating, monitoring, advising and also, educating people on issues concerning gender equality. It will also ensure accountability for gender equity and equality through gender mainstreaming.

Mr Speaker, political parties play a key role in shaping the democracy of our country, and that is a fact. Political parties must be compelled to include women in decision-making positions. At this point, I wish to applaud the Patriotic Front (PF) on that note, for having implemented a gender equity policy. The PF is a shining example.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Phiri: Mr Speaker, it is a shame that gender-based violence (GBV) is on the increase, and yet, what we are witnessing today is the police abducting innocent citizens instead of arresting perpetrators of GBV. This is a fact.

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Let me guide the House. One of the functions of the police is to arrest those that do wrong. So, the police will always go for those who are against the law.

Ms Phiri: Abducting innocent citizens!

Mr Speaker: The police do not abduct people. The police will always arrest those who are found wanting. So, let us ensure that as we debate, we are very categorical. Let us use appropriate words in this House, and not to mislead the public. So, the word, “abducting” does not arise from anywhere. The police will always arrest those who are found wanting.

Ms Phiri: I am well-guided, Mr Speaker. I wish to proceed by maintaining my stance that the police are abducting innocent citizens …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Phiri: … instead of being helpful by arresting GBV perpetrators.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May you resume your seat, hon. Member.

Ms Phiri resumed her seat.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think I guided. You are trying to challenge what I have guided. As lawmakers, let us ensure we use appropriate words. We should not be quite emotional as we debate. Let us stick to what is right. “Abducting” is not the right word to use on the Floor of the House because in the terms of reference of the police, there is nowhere where it is written that one of the functions is to abduct citizens.

So, I have guided you not to repeat the same mistake. You can proceed.

Ms Phiri: I am well-guided, Mr Speaker. I wish to progress with my debate. It is important to note that the police – As a matter of fact, if one is required to answer to the police, one is supposed to be summoned by the police. It is my plea that police summons are sent to –

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Milanzi, who has been debating and making allegations against the police, wherein, she is indicating that the police are not supposed to be arresting people but summoning them.

Mr Speaker, is she in order to expose her ignorance pertaining to the laws of this country, especially that the provisions of the Criminal Procedure Code, which was promulgated by this Parliament, is explicit starting from Section 18 to 34? Is she in order to mislead herself and the nation that the police are supposed to be summoning people? The police are not a court.

Hon. Opposition Members: Which Standing Order?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Milanzi is out of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Which Standing Order?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: What are you trying to say? I am making a ruling here. I know that maybe, the hon. Minister did not cite the Standing Order? Did you?

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, I did.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: He did. He said Standing Order No. 65.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I heard Standing Order No. 65. The only thing he –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The only thing he was not precise about is the paragraph. I heard him say that he hon. Member had breached Standing Order No. 65.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Milanzi is out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I guided her severally that she should not do that. Let us stick to what we know. We are trying to bring in police into our debate and insinuating that the police is abducting people, which is not the case. The police will always arrest those who are found wanting and this is what they are doing.

May the hon. Member continue.

Ms Phiri: I am well-guided, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I am concerned that the political environment even from here is very intimidating for a woman. I am here to debate and I am being curtailed because I am a woman.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Phiri: Mr Speaker –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Milanzi.

There was another woman, the hon. Member for Mfuwe, who debated successfully because she did it in an orderly manner. I have guided you severally that you should not use the word, “abducting.” You are making the environment hostile yourself. Usually, people are responsive. When you act, expect people to respond.

So, you may conclude your debate hon. Member. This environment is quite friendly for you.

Ms Phiri: I have not even debated.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You still have time. You may continue.

Ms Phiri: Mr Speaker, hardly a day passes without a woman being killed or raped, a girl child being defiled or a boy child being molested. These reports are all over social media for all of us to see and read. Sadly, many of these cases are not even reported.

Mr Speaker, child abuse, GBV, teenage pregnancies, violence against the vulnerable and the disabled must be given serious attention by the Government through prioritising interventions to truckle these vices.

Mr Speaker, I agree with your Committee’s recommendations for constitutional reforms that will specifically address the electoral system that will allow equal representation.

Mr Speaker, increased acts of political violence have continued to discourage women to participate in politics. Cyberbullying is being used as a tool to perpetuate violence against women.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I wish to support your Committees report. I submit.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Bangweulu the opportunity to debate the report. Let me hasten to say from the onset that the people of Bangweulu support the report in its entirety, which talks about achieving 50 per cent of gender parity in Government and decision-making positions in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, a few months ago, during the Vice-President’s Question Time, I asked Her Honour the Vice-President if she was happy by then, with the number of women who were appointed in strategic positions. I tried to produce data of the number of female Cabinet ministers, female Districts Commissioners (DCs) and female Permanent Secretaries (PS). When I presented my data to the House, I was told by Madam Speaker, that it was not verified. The same figures that I brought to this House – I thank your Committee for vindicating what I presented. Figures do not lie. I will repeat what I said.

Mr Speaker, according to Article 259 of the Constitution of Zambia, when the President is making appointments, he should consider 50 per cent of each gender. I brought it to the attention of Her Honour the Vice-President during the question and answer segment in Parliament. I said that out of eight nominated hon. Members of Parliament, there were only two females. The President had an opportunity to nominate four females and four males but we missed that opportunity.

Mr Speaker, I want to refer to the graph since this is the period of graphs.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Laughter

Mr Kasandwe: Mr Speaker, according to page 2 of the report, and I will refer to the graph, it says that in 2016, we had 18 per cent of female representation in Parliament.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

The House adjourned at 1841 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 28^th June, 2023.

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