Tuesday, 6^th June, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us settle down. It is good to see you all in high spirits. I am sure you had a good rest and did well in your Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects.

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect   that   in   the   absence   of   Her   Honour   the   Vice-President, who   is   attending   to   other   Government Business, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House until further notice.

I thank you.

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

ON THE POINT OF ORDER RAISED ON THURSDAY, 16^TH MARCH, 2023, BY MR R. K. CHITOTELA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PAMBASHE CONSTITUENCY, AGAINST HON. R. M. PHIRI, MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FOR CONTRAVENING STANDING ORDER NO. 165, BY STATING THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD IMPLEMENT THE FARMER INPUT SUPPORT PROGRAMME IN THE 2023/2024 FARMING SEASON CONTRARY TO THE POSITION GIVEN BY THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING IN THE 2023 BUDGET ADDRESS THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD MOVE FROM FISP TO CASP

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Thursday, 16^th March, 2023, when the House was considering the Ministerial Statement on the Distribution of Farming Inputs for the 2023/2024 Farming Season and Mr M. Simushi, hon. Member of Parliament for Sikongo, was debating, Mr R. K. Chitotela, hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe Constituency, raised a point of order. The point of order was against Hon. R. M. Phiri, Minister of Agriculture. In his point of order, Mr R. K. Chitotela, MP, cited Standing Order No. 65, which requires hon. Members to ensure that the information they provide to the House is factual and verifiable.

In his point of order, Mr R. K. Chitotela, MP, alleged that there was inconsistency in policy pronouncements by the Government regarding the farming inputs programme. He explained that, on one hand, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning had, in his 2023 Budget Address, stated that the Government was shifting from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) to the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP). He further stated that, on the other hand, the hon. Minister of Agriculture, in his ministerial statement, had said that the Government would continue with FISP. In that regard, he asked for clarity on which of the two programmes the Government would implement.

Hon. Members, in response to the point of order, the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker reserved her ruling in order to study the matter and adequately compare the 2023 Budget Address to the Minister of Agriculture’s ministerial statement.

Hon. Members, in studying the matter, I had recourse to the verbatim record of the proceedings of Thursday, 16^th March, 2023 and the ministerial statement rendered by Hon. R. M. Phiri, MP. I also had recourse to the 2023 Budget Address delivered to the House by Hon. Dr S. Musokotwane, Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Members, in presenting the Budget Address, Hon. Dr S. Musokotwane, MP, stated, among others, as follows:

“I am duty bound to provide clarity on a false matter that was at one time circulating in some social media that the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) will no longer be available because of the IMF supported programme. To the contrary, FISP continues in the 2022/2023 Farming Season with the same strength as before. However, Madam Speaker, in addition to providing input support, FISP will be reformed to include extension service support; irrigation development; access to finance; support to value addition; and storage logistics. The new expanded programme will be called Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme.”

From the foregoing excerpt, it is clear that in his Budget Address, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning categorically stated that FISP would continue. It is also clear that he further said that the programme would be expanded to include other services, hence the change in its name to CASP.

From the verbatim record, it is also evident that, in answering the follow-up question asked by Mr M. Simushi, MP, the hon. Minister of Agriculture explained that FISP was part of CASP because CASP had several variables, one of them being FISP.  This statement is consistent with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning’s statement in his Budget Address.

From the foregoing, it is evident that Hon. R. M. Phiri, MP’s statement was consistent with the Government’s position as contained in the 2023 Budget Address, and, therefore, factual and verifiable. In that regard, the hon. Minister was not out of order.

I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Finance and National Planning and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I inform the House that the House Business Committee met on Friday, 2^nd June, 2023, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period 6^th to 16^th June, 2023.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, your Committee resolved to lay before the House, the following business for consideration:

Announcements

The Hon. Madam Speaker may make an announcement to the House on any day when it is necessary to do so.

Rulings

The Hon. Madam Speaker may render rulings if there will be any.

Ministerial Statements

The ministerial statements will be rendered if there will be any.

Private Member’s Motions

Mr C. Kang’ombe will present a Motion that the Government Actualises Provision of Health Services to the Poor and Vulnerable on 14^th June, 2023.

Bills

The Bills listed hereunder will be considered:

1. The Environmental Management (Amendment) Bill No. 6 of 2023. This is the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined;
2. The National Prosecution Authority (Amendment) Bill No. 7 of 2023. This will also be the Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined;
3. The Human Rights Commission Bill No. 8 of 2023. This will also be at Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined; and
4. The Zambia Institute of Valuation Surveyors Bill No. 9 of 2023. This will also be at Second Reading stage and the date for consideration is yet to be determined.

Reports on International Conferences

The Reports on International Conferences will be rendered, if there will be any.

Parliamentary Committee Reports

The following Committee Reports will be considered during the period:

(i) Report of the Committee on Government Assurances on the Outstanding and New Government Assurances. This will be considered on 8^th June, 2023;

(ii) Report of the Committee on Planning and Budgeting on the Effects of Illicit Financial Flows on the Budget and its Sustanability. This will be considered on 8th June, 2023

(iii) Report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation on Statutory Instruments. This will be considered on 9^th June, 2023;

(iv) Report of the Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Matters on the Plight of Circumstantial Children in Zambia. This will be considered on 9^th June, 2023;

(v) Report of the Committee on Media, Information and Communication Technologies on the Role of the Zambia Information Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) in the Fight Against Cybercrimes. This will be considered on 13^th June, 2023;

(vi) Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the Effectiveness of the Department of Veterinary Services in Combating Livestock Diseases in Zambia. This will be considered on 13^th June, 2023;

(vii) Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on the Review of the Administration and Operations of the Zambia Police Service. This will be considered on 14^th June, 2023; and

(viii) Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on Public Procurement in Zambia. This will be considered on 14^th June, 2023.

Questions for Oral Answer

The hon. Ministers will respond to eighty-five Questions for Oral Answer as set out hereunder during the same period. The details of the Questions for Oral Answer are contained in the Notices of Questions circulated to all hon. Members and other stakeholders.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee, and in accordance with Standing Order No. 189(5) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, I have the pleasure to present the business for the next two weeks to this august House.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER FOR PAMBASHE, ON MR KAPALA, HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON THE DAMAGE WHICH OCCURRED ON THE PIPE THAT TRANSPORTS FUEL FROM TANZANIA TO ZAMBIA IN MAY 2023

Madam Speaker: I have seen that there are several indications for matters of urgent public importance, about eleven or twelve of them. We will deal with each one as it is raised so that we do not miss out on anything. We will start with the hon. Member for Pambashe.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I am directing this matter at the hon. Minister of Energy. 

Madam Speaker, I am grateful that during the break, you assigned us to go and learn best practices in Tanzania. On or around 15^th May, we woke up in that country to a very rude shock and a very embarrassing situation whereby the security of this nation was compromised. The pipe that transports the finished product from Dar-es-Salaam to Ndola called the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta Pipelines Limited (TAZAMA) had a puncture and the nation of Zambia lost in excess of 1 million litres of diesel. As though that was not enough, no statement has been issued to the people of Zambia about the loss and the danger posed by this incident to the security of the nation.

Madam Speaker, it took a councillor in that foreign land to raise the alarm and report this matter. Then it dawned on all of us hon. Members of Parliament who were in Tanzania how porous we are that such kind of damage can happen to a strategic national asset without being detected by the systems in Zambia.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, the concern that I have on behalf of the people of Pambashe and Zambia at largely, including those we travelled with to Tanzania, is what would happen if that puncture had occurred in middle of the Muchinga Escapement, where there are no people living there. Our systems in Zambia were unable to detect this damage to our strategic reserves.

However, the hon. Minister of Energy has quietly sat in this House. This happened even before the sitting of Parliament. As you may be aware, this happened around 15^th May. The hon. Minister has never issued a statement to the nation to allay the fears of what would happen if the puncture or rapture happened in the Muchinga Escapement, where there are no people living there.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance on this matter of national importance and security of the strategic reserves for the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we raise matters of urgent public importance, please, let us not debate. We should just raise the matters so that we can save on time.

As regards the matter that the hon. Member for Pambashe has raised, I recall that the hon. Minister of Energy did issue a press release to that effect and even stated the quantity of fuel that was lost. Maybe, because the hon. Member for Pambashe was in Tanzania, he was not aware of what was happening here.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I assure you, hon. Member, that a statement was issued. I read it myself. If you have any further questions, however, there is nothing wrong with you following it up with the hon. Minister of Energy.

So, we can proceed to the next issue.

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON THE LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MRS NALUMANGO, ON GOLD MINING IN MPIKA AND SHIWAN’ANDU

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 134.

Mr Kapyanga resumed her seat.

Madam Speaker: You can proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, in Mpika and part of Shiwang’andu, gold has been discovered. It was discovered in late February. Since then, there has been an influx of people to that area for a gold rush. These people are in thousands.

Madam Speaker, the Government most recently deployed a team from the Cadastre Department to pick the co-ordinates. In so doing, their royal highnesses or the chiefs have stated that they want to be involved in the process of who should be licensed for artisanal mining in that area. This is because they are the people who live with the residents in Mpika.

Madam Speaker, on the other hand, we saw the District Commissioner (DC) stating otherwise. As things stand right now, there are a lot foreigners in the area and criminality has also gone up. Sanitation has also become a matter of concern and we also have people who are taking advantage of the situation. Furthermore, just two weeks ago, there was a report that a high profile person looted gold amounting to 10 kg.

In all this, Madam Speaker, our people do not even know what they are supposed to do. They have been told to form co-operatives without information on where they are supposed to submit the applications for those co-operatives to get licences, yet those who are politically connected like me are already –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, as guided, please do not debate your matter of urgent public importance. Just raise it and you will be guided accordingly.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, those are our concerns, and the chiefs have asked that they be given the right to identify who should be licensed for artisanal mining of this gold. There is also the issue of sanitation and security because we have foreigners with guns there. They are actually robbing people of their gold and the like.

Madam Speaker, I, therefore, direct this matter of urgent public importance to the Leader of Government Business in the House.

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Mpika. It is good to hear that gold has been discovered in Mpika and Shiwang’andu. It is a sign that our economy is going to flourish. However, as regards this matter being raised as a matter of urgent public importance, it does not meet the criterion upon which a matter of urgent public importance can be raised. The hon. Member can find other means of bringing this issue to the Government. Then the Government can clarify and state the position on the matter. So, hon. Member, you can put in a question to the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and he will be able to answer that question at the appropriate time.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON THE LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE ISSUE OF K65 MILLION FORFEITED TO THE ANTI-CORRUPTION COMMISSION

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you, very kind Madam Speaker. Permit me to say it is nice to see you back in the House. We missed you during the recess.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 134. In 2021, on the Floor of the House, I spoke like a Jewish prophet. I raise this matter directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House. Yesterday, the country woke up to a rude shock that K65 million that was forfeited by one Faith Musonda to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) had gone missing.

Madam Speaker, this nation owes the people of Lumezi an apology. A detailed report shows that there was misappropriation of funds by a director-general, whereby a cell phone worth K41,000 and another one worth K28,000 were bought. This is a person who was ratified by this very House. This regards an institution that is supposed to provide enough measures to deter corruption.

Madam Speaker, this is happening when this House cannot even provide a cell phone for you.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Please, do not include me in the debate.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, proceed, but get to the point quickly.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, when I spoke in 2021, I was interrupted. I was giving the reasons why I could not support the budget allocation to the ACC. I hope we have learnt something that we should be allowed to express ourselves freely, until we deliver a valid point.

Madam Speaker, this is a matter that the country would want to be addressed on with a sense of urgency. There is no way people can, on one hand, declare assets that are not validated, and on the other hand, we allow the same individuals to fight corruption. I have consistently said that the corrupt cannot fight corruption. This is a matter of urgent public importance and the Leader of Government Business in the House needs to address the concerns raised by the people.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Lumezi, for raising that matter. I know this matter has been doing rounds. It started with a newspaper. I recall that from yesterday on, there were various statements that we rendered by both the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and hon. Minister of Education explaining how this money was used.

However, if the hon. Member for Lumezi is not satisfied with those statements which have already been made, and they were only made yesterday, I suggest that he puts in a question directed at the hon. Minister so that the hon. Minister can come and answer at a later stage. However, in terms of requesting the hon. Minister to come and deliver a statement, he has already done that. Actually, both of them delivered statements only yesterday. So, again, I cannot ask the hon. Ministers to deliver statements on the same matter. So, if the hon. Member is not satisfied, I am repeating myself, if he is not satisfied with that statement, he can put in a question. Or you can even move an Adjournment Motion on Wednesday and that matter can be debated. So, it is not closed; there are so many other doors that are open which can be availed to the hon. Members.

MS NYIRENDA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNDAZI, ON THE HON. LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE BROKEN-DOWN BRIDGE CONNECTING CHASEFU AND LUNDAZI

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving a chance to the people of Lundazi to raise a matter of urgent public importance, which is directed at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Development who is the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, since the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is not in the House.

Madam Speaker, the bridge connecting Chasefu and Lundazi at Tigone has literally broken down. Right now, trucks are failing to pass at Tigone. Two months ago, we lost two children at that same point.

Madam Speaker, we seek a quick intervention by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) because our people are nearly cut off between Lundazi and Chasefu. I need your serious intervention.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I think this matter was raised last time. The House was informed that lives of two children were lost and that the bridge had broken down. Maybe, to give the benefit of the doubt to the hon. Member for Lundazi, Her Honour the Vice-President, being the Leader of Government Business in the House, and in charge of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), can come to the House and render a statement on this matter. We can do it on Thursday this week.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON MR M. R. PHIRI, HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MISLEADING THE HOUSE ON THE SALE OF SOYA BEANS

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Petauke Central an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, yes, you will raise a matter of public importance, but please, do not shout in the microphone. Just speak softly, we can hear you. Otherwise, we are damaging our eardrums. You may proceed.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. The matter I am raising under Standing Order No. 134 is directed at the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Interjection

Madam Speaker: Proceed. I said proceed, hon. Member.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, this year, between January and March, the hon. Minister of Agriculture came to this House and informed the nation, through this House, that this year, he would buy only three crops; rice, soya beans and maize. He said this when the hon. Members from Chama asked about cotton. The hon. Minister said that he was not going to buy cotton because it –

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, when you guide this House, we are all obliged to follow your guidance. You guided that the hon. Member should tone down. Is the hon. Member in order to keep his note very high even after you have guided?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

The Standing Order that has been cited is not correct. However, hon. Member for Petauke Central, as the hon. Member for Matero has observed, you do not have to shout. That is why there is a microphone. We can hear you loud and clear. Please, do not shout into the microphone. You are damaging our eardrums. Proceed, but please, do not shout.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. As for the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, you know how Judas Iscariots are.

Laughter

Mr J. Banda: So, we understand.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, I know that there is an outcry that people should be allowed to ask all sorts of questions. Now, I do not know how to categorise your question. Please, can we be serious? Ask your question and do not attack another hon. Member for having raised a point of order.

You may proceed.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister informed this House that the New Dawn Government was not going to buy cotton. This was his response to a question that came from the hon. Member from Chama. He said that in the 2022/2023 Farming Season, the Government was going to buy rice, soya beans and maize. However, when I was in Ghana, I woke up to the rude of shock …

Laughter 

Mr J. E. Banda: … that the hon. Minister announced that the Government was going to buy only two crops, that is, maize and rice. That is contrary to what he informed this House.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead the nation and lie to the nation on behalf of the Government that it was going to buy soya beans? Right now, my people in Petauke Central Constituency and the Eastern Province at large are in shock. The people in Namwala in the Southern Province, the people in Isoka in Muchinga Province, the people in Mitete and Katunda in the Western Province, and everyone in the country is dying of the rude of shock …

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: … because farmers expected the Government to buy –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I think we have taken note of your matter of urgent public importance. Please wind up.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, when people were planting soya beans, they had in mind that the Government was going to buy the soya beans and they acquired loans. Right now, four people in my constituency are admitted to hospital because their Blood Pressure (BP) is not coming down. I am scared of losing them. This situation is not only prevailing in Petauke, but also in Namwala and Dundumwezi in the Southern Province. In fact, the sister to the hon. Member for Dundumwezi is also sick –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central!

Mr J. E. Banda: In conclusion, Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order!

I had advised that you do not debate your matter of urgent public importance. We started business at 1430 hours and now it is 1509 hours. We have already lost thirty minutes. When we come to other substantive matters, hon. Members will need a lot of time to debate. So, please, do not eat into the debate time. Raise your matters as quickly and as urgently. As you put them that they are urgent. Can you wind up.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, is the hon. Minister, my elder brother, in order to sit quietly whilst our people in the Eastern Province and Zambia at large are about to die because of thinking about how they are going to pay back money because the Government which is the only entity which can give a benchmark to the private sector is not going to buy their crop?

I seek your indulgence and your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Petauke Central. As you rightly pointed out, that issue of buying maize and not buying soya beans was stated by the hon. Minister of Agriculture about three or four weeks ago. From that time on, the hon. Member for Petauke Central should have put in a question because we were admitting Questions for Oral Answer.

So, hon. Member for Petauke Central, I agree with you that the matter that you have raised is important, but does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. Please, put in a question. If you had put in a question, this time, it would have been on the list waiting to be answered by the hon. Minister. So, the door is not closed. Put in a question and the hon. Minister will be able to address that issue.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker, and it is similar to the one raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, if your matter is similar to the one raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central, I have already made a ruling. You, or the hon. Member for Petauke Central can put in a question and the hon. Minister will be available to answer it.

MR FUBE, HON. MEMBER FOR CHILUBI, ON DR MUSOKOTWANE, HON. ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON MR IMENDA, SECRETARY-GENERAL OF UPND USURPING FUNCTIONS OF GOVERNMENT

Mr Fube (Chilubi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I rise to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134, read together with Standing Order No. 135, which borders on the functionality of the Executive.

Madam Speaker, the Constitution, in Article 91, states:

“(1)      There shall be a President of the Republic who shall be the Head of State and Government and Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Force.”

(2)     The executive authority of the State vests in the President and, subject to this Constitution, shall be exercised directly by the President or through public officers or other persons appointed by the President.”

Madam, the Constitution further states in Article 92(e) that the President will appoint persons as required by the Constitution or any other law.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chilubi are alarmed when it comes to execution of executive powers. I know that there are many articles but in the interest of time, I will not quote them. The Constitution states that the President appoints hon. Ministers among hon. Members of Parliament. If that is not available, the President has been given space to nominate eight people as hon. Members of Parliament. As my memory serves me, nominated hon. Members of Parliament are all here in this House, executing duties as hon. Members of Parliament.

Given that, Madam Speaker, I have seen that some party functionaries of the United Party for National Development (UPND) have usurped the powers of certain ministries. We know that there may have been a rumour for change in certain portfolios or ministries, possibly pointing to ministries like the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, but that does not give …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Fube: … anyone excitement to start acting in a position that is not yet vacant. As far as we are concerned, no one has lifted the Bible or the Quran here to take the position of nominated hon. Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, if we are to follow Articles 147 to 152 of the Constitution, which talk about the devolved functions of the Government, we will see that those devolved functions of the Government are supposed to be assisted by the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. We have to find out that –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, please get to the point. What is your matter of urgent public importance?

Mr Fube: I am getting there, Madam Speaker. One of the things that come out of that arrangement is the CDF, which is the Constitution Development Fund.

Laughter

Mr Fube: The Constituency Development Fund. I know that you are bothered about small things so I will continue as though not disturbed.

 

Madam Speaker, mark that I said Articles 147 to 152 is where the CDF falls. I want to learn from the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, what one Imenda, the Secretary-General of the UPND, was doing, especially in Muchinga Province –

Mr Mutelo: He is not here to defend himself.

Mr Fube: It is in public domain!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Fube: Yes!

Hon. PF Member: Hammer!

Mr Fube: What was one Imenda doing when he usurped the roles of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and started inciting members of the public against elected hon. Members of Parliament?

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Chilubi. I think the best way to deal with that matter is to put in a question because it does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. There is a criterion under Standing Order No. 135, which specifically states how a matter can qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. You can put in a question, hon. Member, and the hon. Minister or the hon. Leader of Government Business in the House will be able to clear that and state the position. In addition, the person who has been mentioned is not in the House so we cannot debate him.

REV. KATUTA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHIENGE, ON DR MUSOKOTWANE, HON. ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON PEOPLE FAILING TO REGISTER THEIR CO-OPERATIVES ONLINE DUE TO LACK OF INTERNET SERVICES

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the President announced that with the increase in the allocation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the Government would like to reach out to many people in rural areas, and that people should form co-operatives. This was a very good pronouncement and was well-received not only by the people of Chienge, but also the other people in many rural constituencies.

Madam Speaker, we have a challenge because our people have little education so they cannot even go online to register. People want to access funds under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) but they have to form co-operatives and register online first.

Madam Speaker, I am directing this matter of urgent public importance at the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House. People cannot access what they are supposed to access because of the procedures of registering co-operatives.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out how this Government will help the people of Chienge. We have forms but people have been told that they cannot use forms but register online. They need to go online but internet is a challenge in areas like Chienge, Nalolo and everywhere. Furthermore, we do not have enough officers who are supposed to assist people; we have only one person. 

 Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence regarding this issue because the people of Chienge need to access CDF through co-operatives.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, I think, maybe, you should put in a question to the hon. Leader of Government Business in the House because again, it does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance.

Hon. Members, there are criteria that have to be met for a matter to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. So, it is not all issues. They might be important or urgent, but to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance, the criterion has to be met.

We go to the next hon. Member. Hon. Member for Chama South, you may proceed. 

MR MUNG’ANDU, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA SOUTH, ON MR SIKUMBA, HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM, ON ELEPHANTS BREAKING HOMES IN CHAMA

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, thank you. My matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us allow the hon. Member for Chama South to raise his matter. However, I am wondering, why are you – I thought you are always on the frontbench, what happened?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: May I know from the hon. Leader of the Opposition, what has happened to Hon. Mung’andu?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Apparently, it is an in-house arrangement. Hon. Member for Chama South, you may proceed.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, thank you. It is unfortunate that the hon. Members are saying I am a renegade soldier. I remain an hon. Member for Chama South.

Madam Speaker, I have been engaging the hon. Minister of Tourism, but the people of Chama South, particularly Mapamba, have requested me to put this on record. It is not enough to assure them that he is aware of this problem.

Madam Speaker, the people in Mapamba area are fearing to sleep in their homes because of elephants. We had a number of bad incidents in the past two weeks, where elephants broke homes. When people are sleeping, they just see or hear the house crumbling on them. A week ago, we almost lost two lives. Even officers are struggling to hunt this aggressive elephant that has already caused serious injuries. As we speak, some children are in Lundazi hospital receiving treatment. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the short-term measures the Government is putting in place are to ensure that we do not lose more lives to this elephant.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, I think the issue of human-animal conflict has visited this august House on several occasions, and the hon. Minister of Tourism has made statements and indicated measures put in place to mitigate that. I also read today that there are three elephants that are roaming the streets of the Southern Province, in Choma or somewhere.

So, I think, maybe, it will be appropriate for the hon. Minister to come to the House and just give an update on what measures are being taken to ensure that we reduce this human-animal conflict and inform us whether those measures which were taken have yielded any result, and if they have not yielded any results, what other measures can be taken so that we protect our people from human-animal conflicts. So, the hon. Minister of Tourism can come back to this august House on Friday morning to render a ministerial statement. Thank you.

Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, you may proceed.

MR CHEWE, HON. MEMBER FOR LUBANSENSHI, ON THE HON. ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, DR MUSOKOTWANE, ON THE SAFETY OF HON. MEMBERS DURING COMMITTEE TOURS

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. Greetings from the good people of Lubansenshi Constituency. I will rely on the guidance that you provided earlier so I will go straight to raise my matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker, on 9^th May, 2023, when we were on a tour under the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources heading to the Southern Province, we were almost shot by an unknown person along Kafue Road.

Madam Speaker, this brought a lot of anxiety amongst your hon. Members of Parliament who were on that tour. What happened was, as we were travelling to the Southern Province, firstly, we had no security or someone to give a signal that we were in a convoy. There was a person driving in front of us. One of our drivers in front was trying to swerve so that he could create space for all of us. In the process, this person who was driving in front was a bit arrogant and could not give us way. In the process, he blocked the road and all your hon. Members of Parliament were stuck. In the process of trying to reason with him, he disembarked from his vehicle and told us that he could shoot us. The matter was reported to Kafue Police Checkpoint. Although this matter was resolved, the lives of your hon. Members of Parliament was at stake.

Madam Speaker, I am raising this matter and directing it at the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House so that from there, he can see how best he can guarantee the hon. Members of Parliament safety every time they go to perform national studies, and so that their lives are guaranteed.

Madam Speaker, for your information, it is not only the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources that has experienced this. I have also received some complaints regarding the security of your hon. Members of Parliament in other Committees wherever they are on national duty. It is for this reason that I would like to get guidance from your office on how best our lives can be protected as we are discharging our national studies.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member for Lubansenshi. Indeed, the security of hon. Members of Parliament, whether in this House, in the precinct of this building; Parliament   Buildings, or, indeed, when they are on tour, is of paramount importance. However, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly handles that matter administratively.

So, please, when there is a concern like that, bring it immediately to the attention of the Clerk, so that measures can be taken. The matter is administrative, and so, the Office of the Clerk will be able to liaise with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to ensure that security is provided to all hon. Members. We regret that situation, but please, can you address those concerns to the Clerk, as I have guided so that we do not have a repeat of such a situation. Thank you very much.

The last matter will be from the hon. Member for Kantanshi.

MR MUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR KANTANSHI, ON DR MUSOKOTWANE, HON. ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON THE FINDINGS OF THE AUDIT OF ACC

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed at the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House. I will ride on Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, the interim management letter which has been released in relation to the audit that has been conducted at the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), has been received by the public with a lot of interest.

Madam Speaker, beyond the issue of the K65 million, you may be aware that some drastic changes have taken place at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Some of the findings relating to activities of individuals at the ACC getting double subsistence allowance and out of pocket allowance, are some of the reasons the Government made serious changes at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Madam Speaker, this Government has preached that what is wrong is wrong and what is right is right. There is only one Government. I would like to find out when the hon. Leader of Government Business in the House will come and brief this House regarding some of the immediate changes that will take place at the ACC. If there are no changes, confidence will be eroded. What has happened at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has left a lot of economic challenges in terms of the performance of the ministry.

So, I would like to get your guidance on that matter, Madam Speaker.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, very much. Again, the matter is important, and it has also been raised by the hon. Member for Lumezi. As I guided earlier, please put in an urgent question, so that the hon. Minister can be given an opportunity to come to this House and tackle that question. That would be the best way to raise that matter because it does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. I admit and agree that it is important and needs to be addressed, but not during this segment of matters of urgent public importance. So, please put in a question and it will be dealt with.

That sees us to the end of matters of urgent public importance. We have spent one hour on this segment. We can make progress.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

ZAMBIA’S HOSTING OF THE 22^ND SUMMIT OF THE HEADS OF STATE AND GOVERNMENT TO BE HELD ON 8^th JUNE, 2023

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chipoka Mulenga): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to deliver this ministerial statement. I would like to welcome you and other Colleagues back to the House.

Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to deliver a ministerial statement on the Twenty-Second Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) Summit of Heads of State and Government, which will be held at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre (MICC), in Lusaka, starting on 8^th June, 2023. The Summit will be preceded by the Sixteenth COMESA Business Forum and the Eighteenth Meeting of the Ministers of Foreign Affairs on 6^th and 7^th June, 2023, respectively. The theme of the Summit is, ‘Economic Integration for a Thriving COMESA, Anchored on Green Investment, Value Addition and Tourism’.

 Madam Speaker, COMESA is a Free Trade Area (FTA) with twenty-one Member States, formed in December 1994, replacing a Preferential Trade Area (PTA), which had existed since 1981. COMESA was created to serve as an organisation of free independent sovereign States that have agreed to cooperate in developing their natural and human resources for the good of all their people. In this regard, the main focus of COMESA has been on the formation of a large economic and trading unit to overcome trade barriers faced by individual States.

Madam Speaker, the Member States of COMESA are: Burundi, the Comoros, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan, Swaziland, Seychelles, Tunisia, Uganda, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Madam Speaker, Article 7 of the COMESA Treaty establishes the organs of the Common Market with the Authority being the highest and consisting of the Heads of State or Government of the Member States. The Authority, which meets as the Summit every year, is the supreme policy organ of the common market and is responsible for the general policy and direction and control of the performance of the executive functions of the common market and the achievement of its aims and objectives and shall have such powers as are vested in it under the COMESA Treaty. The Treaty also establishes other organs including the Council of Ministers, the Court of Justice, the Committee of Governors of Central Banks and the Secretariat, which is hosted here in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, this is the first time in more than twenty years that Zambia will be hosting the Summit and His Excellency, Mr. Hakainde Hichilema, President of Zambia will be assuming the role of Chairman of the Authority, taking over from His Excellency, Mr. Abdel Fattah El-Sisi, President of the Arab Republic of Egypt.

Madam, the size of the COMESA market is a big opportunity for the Zambian business community. Zambia has an approximate population of 19 million people versus a market of over 580 million people in the region. This is a huge opportunity for growth and expansion of business both in terms of commercial presence in twenty other markets in the region and for export of our products. The Summit is, therefore, a huge opportunity to grow and expand our businesses.

Further, His Excellency, Mr. Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia will be steering the authority in providing policy guidance to reach consensus on a number of issues affecting the region.

Madam Speaker and Colleagues, by hosting the summit and the preceding meetings, the Government will provide our private sector players an opportunity to establish business linkages through their participation at the business forum and enter into deals that will support trade and investment, and ultimately, sustainable development and economic growth.

Madam, the hosting of the meeting will also help towards capital injection into the economy through the hotel, tourism, transport and communication as well the food and beverages sub-sectors. This is very important for our economy as the Government seeks solutions to sustainably overcome the adverse effects of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.

Madam Speaker, I wish to report that so far, 1,450 delegates have registered for the Ministers of Foreign Affairs Meeting, 1,000 delegates have registered for the COMESA Business Forum and in excess of 2,150 delegates have registered for the COMESA Summit of Heads of State and Government Meeting.

Madam Speaker, I am confident that with the hosting of the summit, President Hakainde Hichilema assuming the role of Chairperson of the authority, proceedings at COMESA will be able to move in a manner that promotes regional intra-trade and export of value-added products in line with this year’s theme, namely ‘Economic Integration for a thriving COMESA Anchored on Green Investment, Value Addition and Tourism’. The theme depicts the member states aspirations for the regional economy to rebound from the devastating effects of climate change, global geo-political effects on trade and the devastating effects of COVID 19 pandemic.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Madam Speaker:  Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Indeed, we note that that is a very important summit from which the local business community would benefit. Of course, looking at the scale of business and trade, is the ministry taking a deliberate policy to prepare certain sectors to be able to trade at that level in so far as quality, packaging and scale of trade are concerned?

Madam Speaker, I am aware that most of our empowerment programmes for small businesses come from Constituency Development Funds (CDF). However, for the level that we are talking about here, we may be looking at something bigger. Is the ministry taking deliberate steps to prepare businesses to participate at that level?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Government, not only through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, but a consortium of ministries such as the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises, have taken deliberate steps to support small and medium enterprises (SMEs), especially the ones the hon. Member has mentioned through the Constituency Development Funds (CDF). As has been informed by Government policy, quality, price and timely delivery is something that we are not compromising. Through the World Bank supported projects such as the Zambia Agribusiness and Trade Project (ZATP) and the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA) sections, we are engaging small and medium enterprises as well as co-operatives on emphasis in packaging and producing right products at the right time.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I would like to seek clarification on whether, arising from the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), the Government has streamlined certain areas and put them in a framework. This is because he talked about value addition and many other factors, and the pillars of the 8NDP.

Madam Speaker, my fear is that we may just be participating in such conferences without getting maximum benefits. Has the Government come up with a framework where there are isolated areas that it needs to participate in, especially within the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) area?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, indeed, we are not just participating without gaining from the summit, as I said in my statement earlier. Our hotel spaces are fully booked, and just in hotels, beyond bedtime, there is bar time, laundry activities among many others. When we talk about Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs), it should be noted that for some time, the Government has been running programmes on Television and on radio stations in English as well as in local languages to prepare or position our curators and SMEs, strategically, on how they can market their products. These are interventions that we have put even on our websites, with the support of the Ministry of Science and Technology, using the SMART Zambia Institute to market our products where we have been getting orders online even before the delegates come into our country.

Madam Speaker, I submit.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s ministerial statement.

Madam Speaker, what special qualifications is the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) considering in bringing the summit to Zambia, and also to make the Zambian President its chairperson considering that it is happening for the first time in twenty years?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, that is a very good and important question. To be precise, it has taken twenty-seven years to host the summit.

Madam Speaker, not to be political, but just being realistic in how I respond to this question, we have always spoken through the way the Head of State says that we are back in the league of nations and champions league.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, it is with support from all the parliamentarians and the Zambian people, collectively, how we have presented ourselves now and brought a voice of reason in the region and in the country. We have been trusted that we can steer COMESA on behalf of the member states, in the right direction. So, now there is confidence and ability to have faith that this President is able to do this at the right time in the right direction.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The world is about to change because of a decision that has been arrived at by one economic and political bloc called Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa (BRICS). A decision that will affect a common trading currency. Is the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) Summit going to consider the possibility of having a common currency to be used by member states within that bloc?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I cannot respond on behalf of COMESA. I will only respond on behalf of my Government. Anything on COMESA, as I read in my statement, has an organ that responds on its behalf. At the right time, probably when His Excellency, Our President, becomes chair, he may be in the right position to give that policy direction.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister has mentioned, we are back in the champions league. However, he seems to have left out quite a number of key players that is we the hon. Members. I have checked my pigeon hole, I do not know about other hon. Members, but I do not seem to find an invitation for us to go to the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) event. Are we invited? Has the Government sent out invitations to some of the key players in the champions league?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I think we learned last year when the Leader of Opposition made a similar query regarding the Democratic Summit and the Midterm Africa Union Summit. We have sent about fifty-two invitations to hon. Members, and I am sure that this was done based on representation from the Government, the Opposition and Independent parliamentarians. So, yes, they were sent.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, the good people of Solwezi East, particularly Mushindamo District, are asking if, after that summit, we are going to see some sub Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) markets dotted around the country such as Mushindamo District where we have a border with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) as opposed to just seeing one in Lusaka where beer and blankets are sold?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I think we have realised as the Government the need to inform the nation widely, what COMESA is, where it is found and what it does. I must mention that already, sub COMESA markets exist in this country, most particularly in border areas. What we just need to do as the Government, and a ministry in particular, is to amplify information to our players both in Parliament and outside on where those facilities are found.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam, the theme for the summit under discussion is Economic Integration for a Thriving COMESA, Anchored on Green Investment, Value Addition and Tourism. When I look at organs like the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) and the Southern African Development Community (SADC), I see that they look at preferential trade amongst member states, which in essence looks at lower tariffs and also lower trade. In addition, it also has a ripple effect on domestic resource mobilisation. Is the Government looking at issues of harmonisation of policies because if we have lower domestic resource mobilisation, it hampers the Gross Domestic Product (DGP) and the economic growth? So, how is the Government harmonising that from its perspective?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this chance to respond to this very important question. It gives me chance to explain even more.

Madam, like I said in my previous response, what we need to do more is to enlighten Zambian public more on the gains even for Zambians. We have observed that other countries that come to trade with Zambia conduct trade whilst enjoying preferential treatment while Zambians do not have that information and so, they are missing out. We have taken ownership as a Government and we will continue to inform the public. In addition, we just want to request hon. Members of Parliament, irrespective of their affiliation, to also take this opportunity to engage the public in their respective constituencies on their benefits from COMESA even when they are trading outside the country.

Madam Speaker, to quickly respond to the question from the hon. Member of Parliament, indeed, policies must be harmonised. The COMESA preferential treatment that exists in Zimbabwe must also exist in Zambia. The COMESA preferential treatment that exists in Malawi must exist everywhere. The leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema must make sure that Zambia enjoys the same treatment other countries are enjoying while trading in Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, we need to close this. I can see hon. Members indicating as an afterthought. I had closed the list up to the hon. Member for Kafue. So, hon. Members for Chifubu and Pambashe, please, we need to make progress. So, I will have the hon. Members for Feira, Kankoyo and the last one will be the hon. Member for Kafue.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate presentation on the forth-coming summit.

Madam, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister on the position of the Executive as regards regional matters and how serious our Government takes regional matters and in particular, trading within the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) region against trading with countries such as the United States of America (USA) and Britain. I ask this question because I was disappointed when we had a Southern African Development Community (SADC) Organ and Policy Defensive Security meeting, of which we are also going to take chairmanship in August on a rotational basis, instead, we decided to go and attend someone who was being crowned in the United Kingdom (UK). I would have loved that we prioritise regional matters against others. In this case, what is the position of our Government regarding regional matters against the countries outside Africa?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, it is policy. During the inauguration of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, he said it loud and clear that we should trade within ourselves and also within the regional before trading with countries outside the region. We are very committed to doing business with our neighbours and members of the regional economic communities where we are. So, it is from this background that we have seen ourselves go into a partnership with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) in the Electric Battery Development. We have also gone into a partnership with Zimbabwe in the farming of cereals like wheat and other facilities and we will continue to do this with our regional members.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, Zambia has seen an influx of hosting of international events. I am proud to say this country is really back in the champions league. In the rugby world, we are going to host the first ever Olympic Qualification on 2^nd and 3^rd July this year, in which ten countries are going to compete in Zambia. This just goes to show that, indeed, Bally wakulekafye.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Meaning.

Mr Mabeta: In simple English, this means that President Hakainde Hichilema should just be left to continue with his development agenda.

Madam Speaker, let me now come to my question relating to the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA). Usually, whenever there is an opportunity to export anything, very little goes down to the person who is in production. For example, in the export of mealie meal, whenever the ministry considers export permits, the permits are given to millers or politicians who are already doing well and the benefit does not go to the person who produces the maize. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry whether the Government will consider giving permits to co-operatives in Kankoyo, which are under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), so that the extra income coming from the export of mealie meal goes to benefit the producer of the maize?

 Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government has realised that any Government that works without engaging small and medium enterprises (SMEs) or the grassroot entrepreneurs stands to lose out or that that amounts to a loss for the economy. It is for this cause that His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema created the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises so that we can pay particular attention to them and their needs. I will not comment on the suggestion that mealie meal exports are given to politicians because I have no knowledge of that. However, I confirm that my Government is committed to bringing entrepreneurial skills from communities at national level and also to participate at national level. So, definitely, we are committed to supporting small and medium enterprises with export permits and trading licenses. We are doing this in collaboration with the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Kafue will be the last to ask a question.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. I would also like to congratulate our Government for hosting this very important summit.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member for Kafue!

There is an indication for a point of order from the hon. Member for Lunte. What is your point of order?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65 which speaks to content of speech.

Madam Speaker, I asked the hon. Minister what he referred to as a good question. In his immediate response, he said he was not going to politic. I wondered why he decided not to politic on my question when he is actually not politicking, but giving a policy direction. However, my question was about requirements and special qualifications for Zambia to host the summit and special qualifications for His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema to become COMESA chairperson.  On the COMESA website, it is clearly indicated that usually, the country which hosts the summit assumes chairmanship. Is the hon. Minister in order to start talking about the League of Nations which was replaced by the United Nations (UN) many years ago? Is he in order to mislead himself, myself who asked a question and the general public by suggesting qualifications which are non-existent?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members!

Madam Speaker: I thought it was a style of talking. People are saying we are in a League of Nations and league of champions. I thought that is how politicians are speaking these days. So, the hon. Minister was just expressing himself in a semantical manner. So, there was nothing wrong with the manner he was expressing himself. However, in any event, that question should actually not arise. You are trying to ask a follow-up question on a question that you earlier asked, a clever way asking a follow-up question. You can only one question. The hon. Member for Kafue may continue.                    

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out if the issue of common passports will be on the agenda during the summit, although I know that this is an agenda that is really being pushed from the African Union (AU’s) perspective particularly now when issues of the African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA) are on the agenda.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I wish I could respond to that question as Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry responsible for hosting of the summit, together with the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, but allow me to hold back my response because I will be speaking on behalf of the Secretariat for the COMESA, and so, I may breach some protocols. Allow me to not respond to that, unless I am well guided.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATION TOWERS IN KANCHIBIYA CONSTITUENCY

257. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) (on behalf of Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya)) asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct additional communication towers in the following areas in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Kabinga Chiefdom;
2. Kabulamwiko in Chief Mpepo’s Chiefdom;
3. Cheweshimfwamba in Chief Luchembe’s Chiefdom;
4. Chikakala in Chief Mpepo’s Chiefdom; and
5. Munikashi and other areas in Senior Chief Kopa’s Chiefdom; and

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct additional communication towers in Kanchibiya Constituency. This will be undertaken in a phased approach. The House may wish to note that areas like Kabinga Chiefdom, Kabulamwiko in Chief Mpepo’s Chiefdom, Cheweshimfwamba in Chief Luchembe’s Chiefdom, Chikakala in Chief Mpepo’s Chiefdom and Munikashi and other areas in Senior Chief Kopa’s Chiefdom, including other underserved and unserved areas of the country, have already been identified in the coverage gap analysis. In this regard, the Government is deploying action plans to bridge this gap in future projects planned from 2023 and beyond.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister referred to the coverage gap, which would cover the areas that are listed under this question. Could the hon. Minister inform the House when the Government expects to cover that coverage gap completely, so that it deals with some of these areas listed here and in other parts of the country.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, this year, we plan to plant 300 towers across Zambia. However, even with the 300 towers planted, we will still have gaps because the requirement is 900 towers. So, it will take a bit of time for us to be able to have 100 per cent coverage.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, I know that the majority of hon. Members of Parliament have been asked to submit paper work as regards where they need to have network towers put up, and I know that Kanchibiya is one of them. Much as hon. Members are still waiting for the Government to respond to those application forms, the people of Kanchibiya would like to know when it is going to start erecting network towers in Kanchibiya. What is the timeframe?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the majority of hon. Members of Parliament submitted their various requirements in their constituencies, and we are working on the plans as submitted. Before the end of this Meeting of Parliament, we shall indicate across all constituencies what we will be able to plant in each constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, I am aware that a tower was planted in Chief Kabinga’s area, but it is not on air, just like there are about five towers in Chitambo which are not on air, and the Government wants to go and erect another one there. Could the hon. Minister kindly tell the people of Kanchibiya when the Government is going to put this tower and the other towers on air because I recall that he said that this would be done by December.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us stick to the constituency. This is a constituency-based question. There is a temptation to ask about what is happening in other constituencies. So, that is a clever way of sneaking in a question. Since I allowed the hon. Member for Kasenengwa, I will allow the hon. Minister to answer the question.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in some cases, we are planting towers, but in other cases where there is passive equipment such as in the hon. Member’s constituency and Kanchibiya, we are only going to put active equipment. A comprehensive statement outlining what we are going to do, as I have said, will be delivered before the end of this current Meeting of Parliament.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 202, Privileges of Members, and it is on the Leader of the Opposition in the House.

Madam Speaker: Proceed hon. Member. What is the point of order?

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, the point of order speaks to privileges of Members in the House and I quote:

“(1)   Parliamentary privilege refers to certain rights, powers and immunities enjoyed by the

House and its committees collectively and by the members individually and without which

the House cannot discharge its functions effectively and efficiently.

(2)     The House and members shall enjoy the privileges and immunities prescribed under

the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act.”

Madam Speaker, we have noticed with dismay, issues that happen outside this House, affecting the operations of the House. In this case, I refer to hon. Members who have differed to some extent outside and we have seen them being moved from where they were sitting to another seat behind. For example, I know that Hon. Mumba used to sit there (pointing to the middle seats on the left) he differed with another hon. Member to some extent then he was moved from his usual seat to the back. We have seen Hon. Miles Sampa being moved from one seat to another at the back. The latest one is Hon. Mung’andu who was moved from the front seat (on the left) where that hon Member is sitting (pointing at Hon. Mundubile) to the back. Is the hon. Leader of Opposition in order to continue being intolerant towards his hon. Members to the extent of moving them whenever they differ outside the House?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the sitting arrangement is a responsibility of the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and they are done administratively. Sometimes, the individual hon. Members are the ones who ask to be moved from one seat to another. So, unless there is another issue, which I have not seen and that can bring us to discuss that issue further, that is the case. Otherwise, the Leader of Opposition is not out of order.

Let us make progress.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the response. The people of Kanchibiya would like to know how many towers they will get in 2023.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the people of Kanchibiya will get two towers this year.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, thank you for your kind consideration. That is why we missed you when we were on recess and we are glad to be back. However, I have changed my mind, I will not ask the hon. Minister a question.

Madam Speaker: Since the hon. Member for Pambashe has yielded his time to another hon. Member, I will allow one more hon. Member to ask a question. The hon Member for Chilubi will take the Floor and then we will close on that question and move to the next.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, thank you. I would like to find out what the frequency of the towers to be erected in Kanchibiya Constituency is. This is due to the fact that some places, especially Kabinga also benefit Chilubi. I am not sure which technical term to use, but by frequency, I am referring to the radius or distance that the towers will be covering.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, the question here is about whether the Government has any plans to construct additional communication towers. It does not refer to the frequency that will be used. I do not know if the hon. Minister has an answer to that. Anyway, knowing the hon. Minister, I am sure he has the answers at his fingertips.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the towers that we are going to plant in Kanchibiya will be what we call 4T and this will be able to carry data and voice so that the Government can deliver services to the people of Kanchibiya including Chilubi Island without having to move.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

TOTAL NUMBER OF EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION CENTRES IN KALABO DISTRICT

258. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Education:

(a)     what the total number of early childhood education centres in Kalabo District was, as of February, 2022;

(b)     what the total number of teachers at the centres was, as of the same date;

(c)     whether the number at (b) was adequate;

(d)     if not, whether the Government has any plans to deploy additional teachers; and

(e)     if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development (Mr Mubanga) (on behalf of the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, there were sixty-three early childhood education centres consisting five community and fifty-eight primary schools in Kalobo District as of February, 2022.

Madam Speaker, there were seventy teachers at the centres comprising eleven qualified early childhood teachers, forty-eight volunteer teachers and eleven primary school teachers seconded to teach early childhood education classes as of the same date.

Madam, the number of teachers at these centres was not adequate.

Madam Speaker, the Government plans to deploy twelve early childhood teachers, 154 primary schools and 195 secondary school additional teachers to the centres in the district.

Lastly, Madam Speaker, the plans to deploy additional teachers were being implemented in quarter two of 2022 during the Net Teacher Recruitment of 30,000. Hon. Members may wish to note that the Government has now recruited and deployed twelve early childhood, 153 primary school and 195 secondary school additional teachers to the centres in the district.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT A ROAD TO CONNECT NKHANKHA AND LUANGWA WARDS IN CHAMA NORTH PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

259. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

(a)     whether the Government has any plans to construct a road to connect Nkhankha and Luangwa Wards in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b)     if so, when the plans will be implemented. 

Mr Mubanga (on behalf of the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, due to budgetary constraints, the contract meant to provide connectivity between Nkhankha and Luangwa Wards in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency has been terminated. Therefore, the central Government currently has no immediate plans to construct the road to connect Nkhankha and Luangwa Wards as it is managing the debt burden under the road sector.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, in the short and medium term, the local authorities are encouraged to work on feeder roads within their locally generated funds. Constituencies are also encouraged to take advantage of the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and work on the feeder roads in the rural districts.

Madam Speaker, as alluded to in response to part (a) of the question, there are no current or immediate plans for such a project.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to ask the acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chama want to know how much it costs to construct a kilometre of a gravel road, since the hon. Minister is saying that we need to take advantage of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). From a layman’s point of view and from the good people of Petauke’s view, 1 km of a gravel road costs about K1.2 million. The only money for projects in Chama is K10 million and that road in question is more than 10 km. Since the hon. Minister is saying that we should use CDF, how much has his ministry put as a benchmark for 1 km of road works?

Madam Speaker, I seek an answer from the acting hon. Minister.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I think in my response, I said that hon. Members of Parliament should take advantage of their local resources and encouraged them to access the increased CDF. We have seen a number of hon. Members of Parliament procuring equipment for constructing feeder roads. So, I am encouraging the hon. Member to get a grader so that he can work on the feeder roads in his area.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response. It is good that the hon. Minister is my neighbour. Shiwang’andu is a neighbour to Chama North. Yes, we do appreciate the increase in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but I think the ministry should be differentiating between the urban areas and rural constituencies, which have unique needs. It is like every time the Executive is referring to CDF. You know, in rural areas there are so many competing needs. So, does the ministry have any plans to assist us with, for example, crossing points? Then we can do the other works using our locally generated resources.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Sorry, before the acting hon. Minister comes on, the hon. Member for Pambashe wants to raise a point of order. What is the point of order?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I was checking the list for hon. Members of Parliament and which constituency they represent. According to the information on the parliamentary website, the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu is Hon. Stephen Kampyongo. However, the hon. Member for Chama North has referred to the acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, who is a nominated hon. Member of Parliament, as the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I was also surprised when I heard that the neighbour to Chama North was Shiwang’andu. Hon. Member for Chama North, please when you are giving information –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

When you are giving information on the Floor of the House, be factual. Let us not mislead the people because they are listening to whatever is going on here. So, now they are wondering whether there has been a by-election in Shiwang’andu or not. The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu remains Hon. Kampyongo. That is the position.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, in my response, I said that the ministry has no funds and I have encouraged the hon. Member of Parliament to use the local resources. That is why we had to cancel that contract because we have got money and as Government, we are fighting to clear the debt which we found.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, do you have another question so that we make progress?

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I do not have any other question. I mean, the Government has got no money, so I do not have any other question.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Since the Government has no money at the moment, we can make progress.

PLANS TO UPGRADE THE NSAMA RURAL HEALTH CENTRE IN NSAMA DISTRICT TO A MINI HOSPITAL

260. Dr Mwale (Nchelenge) (on behalf of Mr Elias Musonda (Chimbamilonga)) asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade the Nsama Rural Health Centre in Nsama District to a mini hospital;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
3. whether the upgrade will include construction of a mortuary;
4. what the estimated cost of the project is; and
5. what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, in response to question 104 –

Madam Speaker: It is Question No. 260.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to upgrade Nsama Rural Health Centre to what is being referred to as a mini hospital.

Madam Speaker, as stated in response to part (a) of the question, the Government has no plans to upgrade Nsama Rural Health Centre to a mini hospital. Therefore, parts (b) through to (e) of the question fall off. However, upgrading of Nsama Rural Health Centre has been included on the plan under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to construct a maternity annex, a mini theatre and improvement of water reticulation.

Madam Speaker, additionally, the Government, under the Lake Tanganyika Development Project, is currently constructing a level one hospital in Nsama at Nsumbu. This hospital will have an Outpatient Department (OPD) with x-ray and laboratory, maternity ward, paediatric wing, male and female wards and a mortuary. This project is expected to be completed this year, in July.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, recently, constituencies were directed by Government to procure ambulances for their areas. In her response, I heard the hon. Minister refer to I heard her refer to Constituency Development Fund (CDF) constructing some units including the maternity wards. Is that instruction coming directly from her ministry or is it something that the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) of Nsama came up with. I am talking about the use of CDF in that area.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am hoping I heard the question correctly. Nonetheless, I can be guided if the answer is not in line with the question.

Madam, there is an instruction by this Government wherein the President has directed the Ministry of Health to ensure that all health centres in Zambia, be it rural or urban health centres, must build a maternity wing. This has been communicated through a circular under the Ministry of Health instructing all the relevant Government authorities like the Department of Health at the district and the province and also the local authorities.

Madam Speaker, because health education and empowerment are part of the key policy sectors for this administration, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development has guided all local authorities and hon. Members of Parliament, I presume, to prioritise matters of health and education. With regards to health, in particular water supply, we must ensure that all our clinics and health centres have running water. Secondly, on the issue of sanitation, we must ensure that all our health facilities have good sanitation. The third one is electrification. So, what does this mean? What this means is basically that it is Government’s new policy. To that effect, you will see that various constituencies are now prioritising either the construction or expansions of health facilities using CDF. Of course, anything related to the provision of better health service delivery is now being implemented and decided by various Ward Development Committees (WDCs).

Madam Speaker, suffice to say, it is important for hon. Members to appreciate this policy guidance which arises from the fact that Zambia remains high on the list of countries losing mothers and children during childbirth. So, in trying to fight this high mortality rate of mothers and children, these are some of the immediate action points that we are taking. I must mention here that the question of whether this administration is going to upgrade health centres, be it rural or urban to mini hospitals, the answer shall always be no. It shall be no not because we are refusing but because the policy in the grading of healthy facilities in this country has been re-defined. Hon. Members of Parliament will recall that I said that in this administration, we will not talk about mini hospitals. What you call mini hospitals is simply a rural health centre or an urban health centre in this administration. It is not a hospital. However, these rural health centres and urban health centres shall be improved upon taking into account issues relating to mothers and children. So, even if we improve or expand a rural a health centre, it will not be called a mini hospital, it remains a health centre.

Madam Speaker, therefore, what the hon. Members must be asking us is whether we are going to upgrade a health centre to a level one hospital, which is now what you may call a district hospital as it has other things. The mere fact that you will improve a service at that level does not make it a mini hospital. We think that this is confusing and we want to remain within the international norm so that we do not sound strange.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think the Leader of Opposition was wondering whether this is a directive to upgrade the hospital or it is a decision made by the Ward Development Committees (WDCs). I think that was the question.

Mrs Masebo: I thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to believe that any decision on the CDF must be or should be a decision of the Ward Development Committee (WDC), except that in terms of policy guidelines, the CDF allocations are being directed by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. For example, health and education will be a priority just as transport for monitoring was a priority. So, those will form the principles, but the everyday decision of what it is in the health sector will be for the council and the WDC to decide.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, where the hon. Minister said the rural health centre is, is about 68km from Mporokoso, 42km plus 35km from Nsumbu, meaning that it is highly isolated from the hospital which is under the Lake Tanganyika Project. When you look at Nsama, which was given a district status, you will see that the concentration of the population which is confirmed by the 2022 census of population and housing, is around Nsumbu and where that particular health centre is. It is now worrying that on average, the hospital that is being referred to is supposed to have about thirteen departments. If Nsama is deprived and it is only going to be given a theatre and the other things that the hon. Minister mentioned, it means that it is not going to have these other departments a hospital should have. Furthermore, the population has grown around that area. I do not know how the dead and many other factors will be dealt with, given the distance to Mporokoso and where that hospital for the Lake Tanganyika Development Project is. I submit.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I want to appreciate the concerns raised by the previous speaker when he talked about location challenges. He may be right, I am not sure. I cannot, from this discourse, just immediately say he is right or wrong. I do not know how these decisions were being made by our colleagues in the previous administration. We have noted that where there is construction of a district hospital, for instance, and you get on the ground, you find the community saying we do not know why they want to build a hospital when there are no people here. They are very few people there. That is the population there and it is a fact. Normally, when you make those decisions, the issue of population must always come into play. So, I really cannot answer off the cuff now on whether the hon. Member is right or wrong, except to say this was a decision that was made by the community members themselves or the Government of that day. If the community today thinks otherwise, I think the people in that particular community have the right to make submissions to the District Director of Health and the Provincial Health Director then it will come to us. If it is before we start, as long as the community members themselves make those decisions, there can be consideration.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I am following the hon. Minister of Health as she is responding to questions. She has said that she believes the decision was made by the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was just asking a follow-up question following the hon. Minister’s response that she believes the decision to make the necessary upgrade to the health facility under reference was made by the WDCs. In the same response, the hon. Minister said there is a directive from the President to ensure that all health facilities have maternity wings and electricity. I am also aware that there are directives to buy police vehicles, ambulances and Rural Electrification Authority (REA) is participating. All those decisions are not made by WDCs. My question to the hon. Minister is: Since the WDCs do not fall under the Ministry of Health, how does the hon. Minister know or how does she believe that that decision came from WDCs in that particular area particularly when there are all these directives coming from the central Government?

Madam Speaker: The question has been expanded to a greater extent but the hon. Minister is here, she can give an answer.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his follow-up question. How do I know? I am a Member of Parliament and I am also aware that whilst His Excellency has given that directive, it is also true that hon. Members of Parliament; the community, through WDCs; and councils are prioritising the issue of maternity wings. For example, in my constituency, Chongwe, I have projects upon which even the private sector, on its own, decide to put up a maternity annex. In the same vein, you have a situation where members of the community through the WDCs demand for a clinic or an upgrade of a clinic to include a maternity wing because they see the need themselves. That is besides the Presidential directive. It is happening. So, even when it comes to issues of transport, certain constituencies have, on their own, decided to buy monitoring vehicles or graders for roads. However, we find that even at ministerial level, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development did guide that we get those monitoring vehicles. So, these decisions are happening simultaneously in some instances.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, we still have ten questions on the Order Paper, so, let us manage our time properly, so that we can go through the business on the Order Paper.

UNDELIVERED FERTILISER FOR THE 2020/2021 FARMING SEASON IN

KATETE DISTRICT

261. Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government is aware that a total of 14,444 bags of D Compound and 33,852 bags of Urea fertiliser under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) for the 2020/2021 Farming Season in Katete District was not delivered to the beneficiaries;
2. if so, when the fertiliser will be delivered; and
3. if the fertiliser will not be delivered, whether the affected farmers will be refunded their contributions to the Programme.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, before I answer the question, allow me to congratulate Hon. Muchima, whom I cannot see in the House, for the Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Management and Business that was conferred on him on 22^nd May, 2023. He is now a doctor and we are very proud of him.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, for the 2020/2021 Agricultural Season, all the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) beneficiaries in Katete District received the allocated fertiliser quantities in full.

Madam Speaker, all the fertiliser was delivered and therefore, since all the fertiliser was delivered, there will be no refund to the farmers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response. I do not know what I can say because as far as I am concerned, in the 2020/2021 Farming Season, some farmers in Katete who contributed the K400 were not given fertiliser. If I remember very well, it was in this House where the hon. Minister promised that those people would receive their fertiliser. Since the hon. Minister is saying the people received the fertiliser, I do not know when the fertiliser was delivered because as far as I am concerned, the people of Mkaika never received anything.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, maybe, the hon. Member should look at the years which he has plotted the question on. Maybe then, it will require the type of answer he is asking for. However, for 2020/2021, the fertilisers were delivered.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Any other question? There is seat number zero one six.

Hon. Member for Mkaika, do you have any other question?

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, based on the hon. Minister’s answer, it could be for the 2021/2022 Farming Season, I am not sure, but the last season, and not this one that we are in. Fertilisers were not delivered to Katete. That is my question hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, the fertiliser was not delivered to the district resulting in poor harvests. The quantities of the fertiliser in issue were quite big. That is why I brought this question to the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, before this question, I engaged the hon. Minister and I think he remembers that. I engaged him and said we thought those balances would be given to the farmers after the previous allocation of the FISP. However, he said his ministry was working on that and that the fertiliser would be delivered. That was the answer I was given. So, my question is based on that information. A lot of fertiliser was not delivered. That also caused the harvest not to be good and people do not have maize because of the same.

 Madam Speaker, that is my question, thank you so much.

 Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, which year are we talking about? Is it 2021 to 2022 or 2020 to 2021?

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, 2020 to 2021 because the

–

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, 2020 to 2021, we did not even have elections.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, 2021 to 2022.  

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Alright, the hon. Minister is there. They have been discussing and understand each other better. Hon. Minister of Agriculture, you may respond.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the complication here. However, we answer questions according to what has put forward. For that particular year which the hon. Member asked about, fertiliser was delivered in full. Therefore, I merely responded to that.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Alright, since it appears there is confusion in terms of the dates or which agricultural season we are talking about, allowing supplementary questions will just cause more confusion. So, let us just move to the next question. Hon. Member for Mongu Central, you may proceed.

OIL AND GAS EXPLORATION LICENSES

262. Mr Amutike (Mongu Central) asked the Minister of Mines and Mineral Development:

1. whether the Government has issued any exploration licences for oil and gas in the plains of Western Province; 
2. if so, what the names of the licence holders are; and
3. when the exploration exercise will commence. 

Mr Chipoka Mulenga (on behalf of the Minister of Mines and Mineral Development (Mr Kabuswe)): Madam Speaker, the Government through the ministry has issued or granted six exploration licences for oil and gas covering the plains of the Western Province.

Madam Speaker, the names of the companies that have been issued or granted exploration licences for oil and gas in the plains of the Western Province are:

1. Mafula Energy Limited;
2. ZCCM Investment Holdings Plc;
3. Tilseza Zambia Limited; and
4. Barotse Petroleum Company Limited.

Madam Speaker, exploration will commence upon license holders obtaining the necessary approvals from all the relevant authorities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Amutike: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that answer as he may appreciate the people of Mongu Central. Indeed, the people of the Western Province are not involved in mining as an economic activity. This offers us an opportune time for them to get involved in this important economic activity.

Madam Speaker, there have been complaints by these people who have been granted licences that there is delay from the Government in terms of getting the necessarily approvals. Is the hon. Minister aware of any reasons that could be delaying these entities from getting the necessary approvals?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the ministry has digitalised every system that we are doing for approvals and applications.

Madam Speaker, so I think the challenge that we have gotten at the ministry is just a-no-how of our people to log in and have access to this facility. So, as a ministry, we are doing everything we possibly can to expedite the authorisation of the issuance of licenses.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, the question is very clear. Anyway, my supplementary question is that in his response, the hon. Minister indicated six companies which have been granted licenses. However, listening attentively, I only heard four names. So, what about the other two names? What are the names?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, indeed, I think there was an omission of the two companies. We will avail the hon. Member once the names are delivered to me.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the people of Mongu Central are in dire need of jobs and currently, the country is grappling with the high cost of petroleum products. So, such explorations bring good news to the country. My question to the hon. Minister is: What is the timeframe allocated to these exploration licences that have been given so that we look forward to the commencement of the mining?  

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, exploration is a different kind of science altogether. It is not something that you can predicate because it is not visible and it goes with the belt or the vein which the exploration is taking place from. Definitely, I think expedition to the implementation of this project is something that we are committed to and supporting the companies that are exploring. However, giving a timeframe that it will be done between today, and then, I think would not be feasible. So, allow me just to push and expedite that we work quickly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. In the past, we saw that although people were only granted exploration licences, they ended up mining. So, what measures has the Government put in place to ensure that such things do not happen? 

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, monitoring is something that we lacked in the past. This time around, monitoring and evaluation of all the licenses that we have given out is something that we are investing in heavily to make sure that whoever is given a licence returns or maintains the activities for which the licence was provided. For this course, the Mining Cadastre Department in the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and the Safety Department are working in collaboration with other stakeholders to make sure that the monitoring of whatever activities based on the licenses are adhered to.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The next question was supposed to be from the hon. Member for Kantanshi, but since he has withdrawn, the last question will be from the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask a follow-up question to the Acting Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam, does the geological report or survey show where this belt is exactly. Further, is the Government thinking of partnering with the investors in order to boost our country’s economy through oil mining?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I seek a repetition of the question. I think I missed out an issue. To be specific, what vein is he talking a about?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke, although you are actually expanding this question, you may repeat your question.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, when the ministry hears that a particular area has minerals, it usually conducts a geological survey to establish the amount of minerals that could be present in that area. I am, therefore, sure, the ministry conducted a geological survey and it knows exactly where the belt is. So, my question is: Is the Government, through the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, thinking of partnering with investors; the six companies which have been issued with licences? Right now, our country has deplorable roads such as the ones in Mwinilunga and Lukulu, which are death traps. So, we are looking for money to finance such roads so that our people from Lukulu, Toka and Mwinilunga start moving well. So, is the Government moving in those lines so that it can quickly find the minerals, which we can export and benefit from?

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, what we have given are not mining licences, but exploration licenses. Exploration will tell us where the mineral is and the quantity of the resource that we are talking about. We can then go into mining where we can now issue the very mining licenses which are needed. We have committed ourselves to making sure that those exploring for minerals expedite their activities.

Madam Speaker, to give comfort to the hon. Member, let me state that our Government has gone an extra mile. In the past, we used to find people that we called illegal miners; the settlers of the same areas, who had found the resource. Our Government is committed to seeing that the same people who reside in the areas and who discovered the resource partner with the Government in mining. The ministry wants to make sure that mining is done in a structured manner. We do not want to call our people who found the resource as illegal miners. We want them to be a part and parcel of the mining activities that we are carrying out, so that they are part of the benefits of the value chain.

I thank you Madam Speaker.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me on behalf of the people of Katombola to raise one question. However, before I do, allow me to convey to you, your staff and the hon. Members, fraternal greetings and best wishes from the people of Katombola Constituency.

Secondly, allow me also to convey a happy birthday message to His Majesty, the Lion King, Munokalya Mukuni, our chief, who is celebrating his birthday today.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: We are so proud of Munokalya Mukuni, the Lion King, the king of freedom.

I also say belated happy birthday to His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema. He is the pride of this country.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT MORTUARIES IN KAZUNGULA DISTRICT

263. Mr Andeleki, asked the Minister of Health:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct mortuaries at the following health facilities in Kazungula District:

1. Kazungula District Hospital;
2. Nyawa Clinic; 
3. Ngwezi Health Post;
4. Mukuni Clinic;
5. Moomba Health Post;
6. Makunka Clinic; and
7. Bombwe Health Post; 
8. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. what the estimated cost of constructing each mortuary is.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a mortuary at Kazungula District Hospital. The construction of the mortuary will be completed or will be implemented during the second phase of the district hospital construction project. The House may wish to note that the first phase of the project has been completed and the mortuary is operational.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to construct a mortuary at the following health facilities:

1. Nyawa Clinic;
2. Ngwezi Health Post:
3. Mukuni Clinic:
4. Moomba Health Post;
5. Makunka Clinic: and
6.  Bombwe Health Post.

 Madam Speaker, for Kazungula District Hospital, the Government intends to implement the second phase of the district hospital construction in the fourth quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of a mortuary to be constructed at Kazungula District Hospital under Phase II of the project, will be known once the contractor is sourced.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Katombola, do you have any supplementary question?

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, I am satisfied. I thank the hon. Minister. We are so proud of her.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, In the event that Katombola Constituency plans to put up a mortuary at Makunka or Bombwe using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), what would be the budget for a mortuary for a health post? How much would a mortuary for a health post cost?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, has that question caught you by surprise?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, that question is a bit technical. I should have been asked earlier, except, I know for a fact that one Member of Parliament in Chingola constructed a six bed mortuary unit at K800,000. So, that is just one example. However, they come in different shapes, sizes and costs.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

Hon. Member for Nkana, you have come a bit late. We are moving on. Is it a burning question?

Mr B. Mpundu indicated ascent.

Madam Speaker: Okay, but the owner of the question is satisfied.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I am compelled to ask this question to the hon. Minister. Does the ministry not see the need to have the facilities being requested or is it a matter of lack of funds that has necessitated the ministry to respond that it is not in a position to give such facilities? I ask this question because there seems to be a need by the people for such facilities, yet the ministry does not want to give them even when it may have money to construct such facilities. Is it the question of the ministry not desiring to have such facilities or a matter of not having resources?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I think it is not a question of not wanting, but a question of policy at any given moment in time. The good news is that we are now devolving through the Decentralisation Implementation Plan that was launched by His Excellency the President, wherein populations or communities will be deciding what their priorities are. Suffice to say that when it comes to certain specific services to be rendered, I would like hon. Members to appreciate that the health sector system is complex, such that if you are to really deliver in an effective and efficient manner, there are certain principles or parameters that you, as a Government, must decide on.

So, for example, Madam Speaker, as a I said last time, when you are at the lowest level, which is the health post, there are certain services that shall be delivered at that particular level. Then, when you get to the next level of health centres, be it rural or urban, again, there will be an improvement but up to a certain limit. So, when you get to level one, which is a district hospital, level two, level three, a tertiary kind of hospital and level four, which is a specialised hospital. At those levels, there will be specific functions, equipment and human resource that you will find because you have to implement plans in an organised manner. You cannot just wake up in the morning and say that is what the Government should do, no.

Madam Speaker, it is not just a question of resources but order. Otherwise, you will have a problem. However, as I said, the good news is that under the Decentralisation Policy, certain services that communities think they really need even if the Government is not able to give them will decide. That is what it is.

I thank you, Madam.

ELECTRIFICATION OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN LUBANSENSHI CONSTITUENCY

264. Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Energy:

1. when the Government will electrify the following infrastructure in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Tungati Secondary School;
2. Menga Secondary School;
3. Luena Secondary School;
4. Njoko Secondary School;
5. Ndoki Secondary School;
6. Matipa Secondary School;
7. Bemba Secondary School;
8. Chief Tungati’s Palace; and
9. Chief Shimumbi’s Palace; and
10. what has caused the delay in commencing the projects.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Government through the rural electrification authority undertook an exercise in September, 2022, to establish the scope of works, Bill of Quantities (BoQs) and the cost of electrification of the infrastructure in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency for possible electrification. The estimated cost of electrifying the schools and the chiefs’ palaces is K66,459,903. However, the electrification will be subject to availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, there has been a delay in electrifying the schools in question due to constrained funding. This applies to many other public institutions and schools that are yet to be electrified.

Madam Speaker, allow me to give additional information for clarity sake. The Ministry of Energy and the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) are in the process of assembling a technical working group tasked with identifying priority energy projects that should benefit from the allocation under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for all the fifty-eight constituencies. The committee will recommend projects for implementation based on urgency and the submissions they receive from community members and leaders.

Additionally, Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Energy is in the process of proposing a policy adjustment in July, 2023, to the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) that will see low income consumers in rural areas pay connection fees over a period of eighteen months from the current twelve months after they pay the initial invoiced 50 per cent.

Thank you, Madam.

Mr Chewe: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The hon. Minister said that the Government will electrify these schools or institutions when funds are available. He is the hon. Minister of Energy. The ministry receives its allocation. Therefore, could the hon. Minister kindly specify when the ministry is going to, at least, start attending to the institutions one by one. The people of Lubansenshi cannot be satisfied with the response that when funds become available. What if that happens in 2090? Is he telling the people that they are going to wait until that period?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, as I said, scoping has already been done, the bills of quantity have been prepared, and the cost estimate has already been worked out. What is remaining is just sourcing the funds to carry out these projects. However, the hon. Member is free to come to our office to look at the master plan that has already been prepared so that we can put a time limit on it.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, you have been invited to visit the hon. Minister’s office so that you can explore this matter further.

Let us continue. 

Mr B. Mpundu: Professor!

Laughter

Mr Fube: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Since the hon. Minister said that the cost of the project is likely to be K67 million, – is it K67 million?

Mr Kapala: K66.5 million.

Mr Fube: K66.5 million.

Madam Speaker, I do not know the mode because among all those points he has mentioned, the farthest point is Matipa. Going by what the hon. Member for Lubansenshi asked, and since the grid only goes up to Nsanje, is the mode going to use solar or the Government will connect to the grid using the same cost he spoke about?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I cannot place the location of Matipa as regards what we plan to do. However, we will look at that position and advise that we either go solar or connect to the national grid.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, this year, in the 2023 Constituency Development Fund (CDF), each constituency is contributing K1 million to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). In total, REA will raise about K156 million from the 2023 CDF allocations. The hon. Minister mentioned priority projects, so, is it possible, that they can get a certain amount, and electrify schools in Lubansenshi?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Can we pay attention to the answers. There are a lot of consultations going on.

Hon. Minister of Energy, you may proceed.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I wish the hon. Member could be following the development as regards to signing of Memoranda of Understanding (MOUs) with REA. This is in connection to the additional K1 million that has been given to all constituencies. So, get in touch with REA, come up with an MOU, and then you can choose a school or clinic that will be electrified within that K1 million.

I thank you, Madam.

PENDING ELECTRICITY CONNECTIONS IN MKUSHI DISTRICT

265.  Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North) asked the Minister of Energy:

(a)     how many applicants had pending electricity connections to their premises in Mkushi District, as of July, 2022;

(b)     why electricity connections in the district have stalled;

(c)     when the exercise will resume; and

(d)     what the cause of the delay in resuming the exercise is.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I inform the House that there were 465 paid-up applications that were pending connection as of July, 2022.  As of today, 6^th June, 2023, only 188 paid-up customers are pending electricity connection in Mkushi.

Madam, Speaker, connecting of customer premises in Mkushi District has been on-going, but the delays have been due significant disparity between cost of material acquired by ZESCO Limited and the amount that was paid by customers for connection. ZESCO Limited heavily subsidised connection charges which led to a backlog of connections as the utility struggled to viably acquire all necessary materials.

Madam Speaker, as earlier alluded to in (b) above, the exercise is still on-going.

Madam Speaker, part (d) of the question has been addressed in our response to parts (b) and (c) and hence, it falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the responses. The hon. Minister has stated, quite alright, that there are challenges in the procurement of materials by ZESCO Limited to connect clients. What would be the challenge for those clients who are actually living in areas where there are service lines close by, yet they are not connected. Examples of such areas are Masansa, Itala Compound and Ilume. What could be the reason for not connecting these clients when the service lines are there and the people are closer to the service lines?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I suggest that the hon. Member comes to our office or get in touch with the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) so that those areas can be scoped and the work schedule and costings arrived at. Then, we can look at as and when these areas will be connected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I call upon the hon. Member for Lubansenshi, who will be followed by the hon. Member for Chama South and then that will be the end of this question.

Mr Chewe:  Madam Speaker, in his responses, the hon. Minister indicated that 188 applications for connection to the electricity grid by ZESCO Limited are pending. Definitely, the people of Mkushi need electricity, especially the 188 who have paid. Is the hon. Minister considering the cries of the majority in Mkushi regarding the high connection fees? The K4,800 connection fee is too much, especially for the people in the rural areas like Lubansenshi Constituency. What measures is the Government putting in place to address the cries of the people?

Mr Kapala:  Madam Speaker, I suppose I addressed this issue in my last question. I had indicated that the Ministry of Energy is in the process of putting up a proposal to the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) to see how low-income families can be put on a payment schedule that will last eighteen months as opposed to the current twelve months. That is what I said. So, that is what we are proposing throughout the country and we hope this will be achieved very soon.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, my follow-up question is similar to the one asked by the hon. Member for Lubansenshi Constituency considering that Lumezi, Lundazi and Chama are districts that are yet to be connected to the national grid and we are confident that according to your promise, our people will be connected soon.

Is the Government considering, not necessarily, putting the people on what you have called a payment schedule, which I do not want to call a subsidy, but rather something that will make first time electricity connections affordable particularly in the rural areas? Is it planning or considering devising ways through which our people in rural areas like Chama – You can take electricity there, but they will not connect because they have no resources. Is the Government considering that just at connection stage?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I would suggest that the hon. Member gives us some ideas on how we can work on that so that everybody has cheap electricity.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: So, hon. Member for Chama South, you have been invited to engage the hon. Minister of Energy to give him ideas on how best the Government can serve people at an affordable cost. Let us make progress.

Mr C. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister stated that there are only 188 clients that are yet to be connected to the national grid. Could he be kind enough to state the period the 188 clients could be connected to the national grid because others have actually been waiting for these connections for over three, four or five years.

Mr Kapala. Madam Speaker, I can only say that this is an on-going exercise. So, I cannot give a definite timeline that in such and such a month, we will be able to connect everybody who is outstanding. All I can do is assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we are doing our level best to ensure that everybody is connected as soon as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.  

REHABILITATION OF THE CHINSALI/ISOKA ROAD AND CHINSALI POST OFFICE/NAMBULUMA TURN-OFF

266. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the contract to rehabilitate the Chinsali/Isoka Road includes the rehabilitation of the Chinsali Post Office/Nambuluma Turn-off Road; and
2. if so, when rehabilitation will commence.

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali) (on behalf of (the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, works for the rehabilitation of the Chinsali Post Office/Nambuluma Turn-off Road will be constructed as a variation to the on-going rehabilitation of the Chinsali/Isoka Road. The rehabilitation is expected to commence as soon as a no objection is granted by the African Development Bank (AfDB), the financiers of the project.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, when are we expecting feedback as regards to the no objection from African Development Bank? What timeline is the Government giving the people of Chinsali?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I am afraid, as a ministry, we have put in place a roadmap regarding how this particular extension or variation can be achieved. Since, we are not the financiers, that expression has already been made to the financiers. I guess for now, what we have to do is wait. As soon as that is availed, we shall get back to this august House.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, is it possible for the ministry to take the initiative and make a follow-up and find out the statues of the request for the no objection on the variation, considering that the request for that no objection was made about two or three years ago?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I am afraid in this particular matter, it would not be prudent for us to do that. We do know that this matter is receiving active consideration. Since, we are beneficiaries of this gesture of AfDB coming in to finance this particular project, I am afraid we need to wait and when it is appropriate, we may have to engage.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, before I pose a question, I would like to declare interest as per procedure, to the extent that when the Cabinet Memorandum to approve this contract was tabled in Cabinet and approved, I was present. Therefore, I am very much aware of the details of how this contract was structured. The road stretches from Nakonde to Chinsali through Isoka.

Madam Speaker, the obligations in that contract were to include peripheral roads, such as a few kilometres in Nakonde, Isoka and Chinsali. In Chinsali specifically, two stretches were part of the contract; the Chinsali Post Office/Nambuluma Turn-off and a stretch from the Great North Road to the newly constructed general hospital.

Madam Speaker, at what point did the scope of work change for the Government to start thinking of the Chinsali Post Office/Nambuluma Turn-off to be considered through a variation because it was part of the contract?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, obviously, we are dealing with two different administrations. The hon. Member has posed a question to which I need to seek further and better particulars.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has told this House that the Government is waiting for a no objection response from the African Development Bank (AfDB). When the hon. Minister says the Government is waiting for a no objective response, is it that the Government is certain that it will have positive feedback? What happens in an event that a no objective response is given?  I am inquisitive and I would like to know.

Madam Speaker: It is supposed to be a no objection. In any event, that is now speculative.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I guess it is Hobson's choice. When we reach that stage of no objection or rather when we do not get a positive response to the no objection issue, I guess as an administration, we do have the responsibility to look after our people in every part of this country. Therefore, once funds permit, it will be the duty of this administration to fill in the gap.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali has lamented that two or three years have elapsed from the time a request for variation was sent. Therefore, is the hon. Minister in a position to state what the cost of the main contract project is and what the variation is? 

Madam Speaker, I am saying this to give a leak that probably, the variation has taken long because maybe, this new project needs a fresh advertisement surpassing the 25 per cent variation standard.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to state how much the contract period for the major project is and what the variation price was?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I am aware that the contract sum is K785,773,382.49. For the Government to consider a variation to this particular contract simply means that it shall be within the prescribed scope where a variation can be considered.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

REHABILITATION OF PRIMARY SCHOOLS IN CHADIZA CONSTITUENCY

  267. Mr J. Daka (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Education:

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the following primary schools in Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Mwangazi;
2. Msokolela;
3. Kalemba; and
4. Mkumbudzi; and
5. if so, when the plans will be implemented

Mr Mubanga (on behalf of the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, I inform this House –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members are requesting the hon. Minister to increase the output.

Mr Mubanga: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Government has plans to rehabilitate the Mwangazi, Msokolela and Mkumudzi primary schools in Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency and the plans to will be implemented in the 2024-2026 Medium Term Budget Plan, subject to availability of funds.

Madam, in addition, these schools are too old. They were built just after independence and the infrastructure needs to be in good shape. Generally, there are many schools whose infrastructure needs major rehabilitation works across the country and that require a colossal sum of money.

Madam Speaker, given this, major rehabilitation works can only start next year because the Government is now focussing on the agenda of completing the infrastructure already earmarked and those under construction including stalled projects throughout the country before considering new projects.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members may wish to note that the New Dawn Administration has inherited a lot of uncompleted infrastructure projects from primary right through secondary to university level. Therefore, the Government will only consider new projects after completing these projects, some of which stalled as far back as 2014. However, the Government funds schools for rehabilitation in phases. For example, in 2022, Kaunda and Naviruli primary schools in the same area received funds for rehabilitating a classroom block each.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has already stated that these schools are very old. If the hon. Minister was to visit these schools, he would find that they are even posing a huge risk to the users who are our children. Does the Government have any short-term measures aimed at improving the integrity of these structures so that we protect the lives of our children?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I have stated that we are funding schools within that same area in phases and that two schools have received some funds for rehabilitating classroom blocks. I also mentioned that we found a lot of uncompleted infrastructure, which we are now trying to focus on. However, the hon. Member is talking about the immediate solution for those schools which are in a very bad condition. Indeed, some school structures are in a deplorable state, but as a ministry, we also have to look at the report indicating whether a particular school has a lot of cracks and other issues and see if we can quickly find some funds for rehabilitation works.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that these schools will be considered in the 2024/2026 budgeting period. Have we done the engineer’s cost estimates of these schools?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, for us to have stated that, it means we do have indications that are helping plan for the rehabilitation works in the budgeting period of 2024/2026.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity to ask a question. The people of Chadiza are anxiously waiting to see the infrastructure upgraded so that the learners can learn in a conducive environment.

Madam, I am convinced the budget for the Ministry of Education was recently approved, meaning that we have the allocation for these projects. Is the ministry considering coming up with a team or a committee to go around the country to asses the schools that are absolutely in need of serious rehabilitation instead of waiting for the 2024/2026 budgeting period? I say so because our children at these schools need to learn in conducive environments including the teachers.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I think I gave an answer when I stated that these schools which are too old and have cracks and other issues will be given first priority. That is why we have our local offices in those districts. They will assess these schools and then submit reports to us. If we note that those schools need urgent attention, we will be there to attend to them.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, why is the hon. Minister struggling to advise the hon. Member to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)? Muletusebanya fwe bena Chinsali kwati tatwaishiba ukwasuka ama qustions. My question is: Where is the problem with advising the hon. Member to use the CDF because he is asking for an interim measure and the CDF is enough to rehabilitate these structures? Do we not need to wait for the 2024 Budget?

Hon. Opposition Members: CDF!

Mr Mukosa: Yes, CDF.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. I almost mentioned CDF, but then I asked myself who I am to answer questions.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question is why are you failing to advise the hon. Member?

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, it is a comment, but I think I did indicate that we started giving funds to rehabilitate some schools in that same area, which simply means we do have a budget line for rehabilitating some of these schools. Of course, as the hon. Member has said, using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a bonus for those hon. Members considering doing so.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

ROADS REHABILITATION IN THE WESTERN PROVINCE

268. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when the Government will rehabilitate the following roads in the North Western Province:

1. Mutanda/Chavuma;

(ii)    Kasempa/Kaoma Turn-Off;

(iii)   Kasempa/Mumbwa;

(iv)    Kalumbila/Mwinilunga;

(v)     Mwinilunga/Ikeleng’i; and

(vi)    Manyinga/Mwinilunga; and

(b)     what the cost of each project is.

Mr Tayali (on behalf of (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Mutanda/Chavuma Road will be considered in future work plans subject to availability of funds. In the interim, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA) shall endeavour to carry out maintenance works on the road in the form of pothole patching in order to keep it safe for road users.

Madam Speaker, the upgrading to bituminous standard of the Kasempa to Kaoma Turn-off Road will be considered in future plans, subject to availability of funds.

Madam, the rehabilitation of the Kasempa to Mumbwa Road will be considered in future work plans, subject to availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Kalumbila to Mwinilunga Road will be considered in future work plans, subject to availability of funds.

Madam, the contract for the rehabilitation of the Mwinilunga to Ikeleng’i Road was awarded to Messrs Freca Mining and Manufacturing Limited on 29^th May, 2020. The works on the project have not commenced due to financial challenges, resulting in the termination of the contract. The works on the project will be considered in future work plans, subject to availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the first section of the Manyinga to Mwinilunga Road, covering 180 km, will be undertaken using the output-based performance road contract awarded to Messrs Wah Kong Enterprises Limited under the Improved Rural Connectivity Project, whilst the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is working on the remaining section stretching approximately 180 km from the Manyinga District boundary to Mwinilunga.

Madam, the details of the cost of each project are as follows:

Road Project                                                Cost

Mutanda/Chavuma                                      To be known when awarded

Kasempa/Kaoma Turn-off                           To be known when awarded

Kasempa/Mumbwa                                      To be known when awarded

Kalumbila/Mwinilunga                                To be known when awarded

Mwinilunga/Ikeleng’i                                   To be known after new awards

Manyinga/Mwinilunga                                 K169,676,114

Manyinga/Mwinilunga                                 K34 million

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I hope I did not miss anything in the hon. Minister’s response. I know that the policy of the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is to carry out some of these projects under the Public Private Partnership (PPP) model. Is the Government considering any of the projects in question to be undertaken under the PPP model?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, yes, this administration would like, as much as possible, where applicable, to use the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) model. As I have no doubt the hon. Member is aware, PPP is also a process that would take serious guarantee of the levels of volume of traffic that would be able to pay for such projects. The PPP Council is stringently looking into those roads which can be undertaken under the PPP model.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers he has given to the people of Mufumbwe and the North-Western Province at large. The hon. Minister may be aware that since the Mutanda/Chavuma Road was constructed, there has never been any periodic maintenance. This has actually led to the road almost becoming impossible at some sections.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has also responded to the people by saying that RDA would start the road maintenance. I would like to find out from him when RDA is going to start this programme.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, let me say that this is in the work plan. I think the common problem we have in this country in so far as infrastructure is concerned, is the lack of fiscal space for the administration to be able to carry out road works as well as maintenance works right across the country. However, since RDA has put this in its plans, I have no doubt that we are near to a point when RDA will be able to move on site.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, I should have risen on a point of order earlier but I think I was not noticed on time.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the hon. Member for Chinsali when he referred to the hon. Minister who was answering questions on the Floor. The hon. Member for Chinsali said muletusebanya  fwebena Chinsali, meaning you are embarrassing us people from Chinsali. Is the hon. Member for Chinsali in order to take on the hon. Minister in that fashion by saying fwebena Chinsali? Is he in order to go personal on the hon. Minister?

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Actually, when that was said, I found it very uncomfortable. So, the hon. Member for Chinsali was out of order. I will request the hon. Member for Chinsali to withdraw that statement because we want to promote oneness in this House.

Mr Mukosa: Thank you, Madam Speaker. My big cousin, hon. Minister, I withdraw.

Maam Speaker: Thank you, we are one people.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I am representing the people of Solwezi East and the North Western Province in particular. However, hearing the responses from the hon. Minister actually makes us very sad.

Madam Speaker, I want to get an assurance from the hon. Minister. Has the Government got any plans even through the corporate social responsibility on the part of the mines that are milking the North-Western Province, maybe, to partner with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and the Road Development Agency (RDA) to make sure that we benefit, through road works, from the resources that are siphoned from the North-Western Province? These roads have been in existence for a long time, and the North-Western Province has continued to lag behind. Previously, we were not considered for these roads. Surely, can we not benefit from resources just to rehabilitate these roads? The people of the North-Western are crying. Please, consider us.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I have to advise the hon. Member that all hope is not lost. We are coming from an era where infrastructure was badly dilapidated. The New Dawn Administration is doing everything possible to work on infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, this Government through Road Development Agency (RDA) has already made available K5 million for at least some road maintenance works to commence on the Mutanda/Chavuma Road, for example. With regards to the Manyinga to Mwinilunga Road, those who are from there will tell you that the contractor is already on site and that works are about to start. Indeed, the Mutanda/Jimbe Road, which is under the PPP model, is almost done. This Government is making every effort. There is serious intent that we fix that which was broken. There is absolutely no need to despair because it shall be well.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: With that assurance and looking at time, I am requesting that we make progress.

CONTRACT SUM FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE NDOLA/LUSAKA DUAL

CARRIAGE WAY

269. Mr Kafwaya asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. what the contract sum for the construction of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way which was cancelled was; 
2. how much of the contract sum was paid before the cancellation;
3. whether a new contract for the project has been signed; and
4. if so, what the contract sum is.

Mr Tayali) (on behalf of (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, the contract sum for the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way Road Project which was terminated was US$1,245,775,986.98.

Madam Speaker, the contractor had been paid US$30 million at the time of the termination of the project.

Madam Speaker, a concession agreement for implementation of the project on Public-Private Partnership (PPP) model was signed on 28^th February, 2023 with Messrs Micro Ocean Investment Consortium.

Madam Speaker, the contract sum is US$649,976,167.00.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer. I am aware that the was some reduction of the scope from the original designs on this road. Among the major works include the road from Kafulafuta junction to Luanshya turn-off and dimensions of the road among others. Now, what is the total cost of these works that were removed from the original contract?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. There is no such reduction in the scope of works.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, this is public information and the Leader of the Opposition will do well to actually seek clarification and be able to peruse through what has been done so far. The current contract, certainly, will include the Kafulafuta to Luanshya. It is in that particular scope of works. There is no such a reduction in the scope of works that the hon. Member refers to.

As a matter of fact, Madam Speaker, what this administration has been able to demonstrate is that we shall will be prudent …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: …through engagements of these potential concessioners because we know what the standards of construction of these roads are and that we shall not short-change the Zambian people.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I love the confidence of the hon. Minister as he responds guaranteeing this House and the people of Zambia with his responses. I once spoke about this particular road and I was abducted by the police.

Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell the House that the Government is only doing expansions of two separate lanes and not upgrading the whole road. What is happening or what we have obtained, as a matter of fact, to borrow his own words is that the works will only involve putting extra tar on the existing road and expanding it by metres instead of the eleven. We hope he is being factual.

Madam Speaker, it will be very disappointing that tomorrow we come here and say misleading information was laid on the Floor of the House. We have got the facts right. Could the hon. Minister confirm that the Government is not constructing four lanes, but two new ones and upgrading the old ones using tar.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, this question is similar to the previous question that was posed. Allow me to state here that as partners in development and as law makers, it is important that we do research into what this Government is trying to do. No amount of falsehoods shall dissuade us from doing that which is right.

Madam Speaker, the actual situation is that remedial works are to precede the actual construction. Knowing how bad this road is, we have to create and make the road motorable in certain sections which are completely bad. Once that has been achieved, the contractor will then proceed to construct a greenfield road altogether. When that is done, the contractor will then move back on the existing road and we will be able to construct a new one. That is what this administration is doing to demonstrate to the Zambian people that when you elect the right leadership, the right amount of work will be put on the social benefit of the Zambian citizens.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I see that there is a lot of interest on this matter. However, we only have a few minutes before adjournment and we have one other question. So, I will allow two short questions then we will close and move to the next question. Hon. Member for Kabwata, you may proceed.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, US$30 million was paid towards the construction of this road. I am actually interested to know whether the Government has got any intention of recovering the money because as far as I am concerned, the hon. Minister has not given us an indication of what scope of works were done in that US$30 million.

Madam Speaker, would the hon. Minister be in a position to tell us whether the Government is going to recover this money that was paid to the contractor?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that pertinent question. The resources of this country are meagre that this administration will not turn a blind eye on any ngwee or, indeed, cent or dollar.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, we are actually proceeding to ensure the process to liquidate the advance security is currently underway now that that particular contract has been terminated. So, the hon. Member may rest assured that we are following up on this particular US$30 million.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.       

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to ask a question.

Madam, the hon. Minister has explained very well and with a lot of confidence. I am doing a cost comparison for these two contracts. The first contract was around US$1.2 billion and terminated at a cost of US$30 million. This contract was signed some two years ago, at a time when the level of deterioration on the road; the Lusaka/Ndola Road, was not as it is today. We all know the status of the road and the levels of deterioration, the failed sub-grade as well as the rutting. The road is almost like a railway line. Yet, in two years time; in 2023, the Government has maintained the same scope of works on the same road with increased deterioration of the structural integrity of the road and the financial implications in terms of the exchange rate of the Kwacha to the Dollar, yet the Government came with a contract sum of about US660 million. My question is: What magic has the New Dawn Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Dr Mwanza: …done to come up with such a reduced amount of money on this road, which basically is 50 per cent? Previously, it was US$1.2 billion but now we are at US$645 million. What has the Government done? We want to see the same scope of works with these increased levels of deterioration on the road. What magic has the New Dawn Government done?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member would have actually driven a point had this contract been quoted in our local currency, the Zambian Kwacha. The initial contract the hon. Member is referring to was quoted in Dollars and we have maintained the dollars. You would understand that that takes care of mitigatory factors of inflation and otherwise.

However, to add salt to injury, the US$1.2 billion was actually an understatement of what that road would have actually costed this country. We have estimated that when you compare maintenance issues and all other attendant costs of maintaining a road, we would have gone as high as US$1.8 billion. Under the current arrangement of the PPP for the entire concession period, the Government will have no role to play in maintaining that road. Any pothole that may emerge within the concession period will be the sole responsibility of the concessioner. There is absolutely no magic that this Government has applied. What we have done is that we have brought sincerity and prudence in the management of public affairs. We want the citizens out there to be able to compare and contrast.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, words such as prudence and sincerity are very difficult words. At the time, we are talking about K6.1 billion being stolen, as reported by the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC). At a time, when leaked corruption documents are showing otherwise, these are difficult words. However, my interaction with the hon. Minister is based on the cost of the road. The cost was supposed to be $1.2 billion, and that is a cost to the Zambian people and the Government. Right now, the cost is $649 million, and that is not a cost to the Zambian people because it is a development cost. I have to tell you that the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and a commercial bank will find this money, and they will be given back their money. So, this is not a cost to the Zambian people.

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the cost to the Zambian people is the forgone revenue over the contract period of twenty-five years. How much are the Zambian people going to suffer as a result of deprived revenue for twenty-five years?

Mr Mundubile: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member did so well when he began asking his question. He actually brought out the beauty of the current financing model for this particular project. That is the beauty of the PPP model. With it, you are able to attract private investment in infrastructure development for social good. As an administration, we are equally so proud that the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) shall partake in the partial financing of this particular project. What that means is that we are retaining some of those monies, which are going to attract interest. Had all the monies come from abroad, Zambia would have lost out. We are so delighted that we have come to this stage, and contrary –

Mr Tayali paused.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the assertions by the hon. Member about the Zambian Government forgoing the revenue are contrary to the facts. The PPP model is a model where you go into a revenue-sharing agreement. We shall not give up any revenue, we will continue to partly receive it, which we do not have in the Treasury at the moment. So, no matter how the hon. Member would like to look at this particular issue, − Perhaps, I may propose that we conduct a seminar to educate the hon. Members on the beauty of the projects the New Dawn Administration is doing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for allowing me to raise this point of order on the hon. Minister on the Floor.

Madam Speaker when we pose questions to our hon. Colleagues in the Executive, we expect answers. We do not expect seminars because they are not competent enough to conduct them for all of us, and we are already enlightened. Is the hon. Acting Minister of Infrastructure in order to avoid a question ably posed by the hon. Member fror Lunte regarding the loss of revenue of the Zambian people? The Public-Private Partnership (PPP) model has been used before, and a clear demonstration is the Chingola/Solwezi Road. We have seen how the developer has shared the revenue. What is interesting is this model which the Government is trying to go into, and the hon. Minister said that it is attracting the money we pay to the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) as foreign−

Madam Speaker, is he in order to avoid the question ably posed the hon. Member for Lunte and opt to start lecturing us on how we should be taken to seminars when he might be the one needing a seminar from Cabinet?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: At the rate we are going, we will need some graphs to demonstrate.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon.  Member for Lunte, do you have another follow-up question?

Mr Kafwaya: I thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said there will be revenue sharing. This means the Government will get some and another person getting another amount. I am interested in that amount which will be lost. How much is it going to be because that determines the cost of the road?

Madam Speaker: Maybe, the hon. Minister can quickly answer that.

Mr Tayali: Madam, there is absolutely no loss because we are gaining infrastructure in a good road that will see us curtail 60 per cent of the crashes that are happening on our roads.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1841 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 7^th June, 2023.

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