Tuesday, 21^st March, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

NAZ STRATEGIC PLAN 2022-2026 LAUNCH 

Madam Speaker: I wish to inform the House that the National Assembly of Zambia Strategic Plan 2022-2026, which was approved in 2022, will be launched on Wednesday, 22^nd March, 2023. The launch will take place in the auditorium here at the Main Buildings at 0900 hours.

Hon. Members are invited to the launch and should be seated by 0845 hours. Attendance is on a voluntary basis.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we raise matters of urgent public importance, let us remember that this is not time to debate. A matter that is raised should be of some urgent nature which, if the Government does not do anything, will result into a catastrophe. Where the Government is aware and is doing something about it, that matter will not be admitted.

So, please be guided accordingly.

MR FUBE, HON. MEMBER FOR CHILUBI, ON MRS MASEBO, THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, AND MR KAKUBO, THE HON. MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL CO-OPERATION, ON COVID-19 VACCINATION CERTIFICATE REQUIREMENT AT THE OR TAMBO INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IN SOUTH AFRICA

Mr Fube (Chilubi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, thank you. Ah, my matter of –

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, can I be protected from this group?

Laugher

Madam Speaker: You are protected, hon. Member. Do not just say, “Ah.”

Laughter

Madam Speaker: It is on a lighter note.

Mr Fube: No. I cannot avoid it.

Madam Speaker, I cannot guarantee you that I will not say that.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I cannot guarantee you that I will not say that. Ah –

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, thank you. I know that that was on a lighter note. Without wasting time, I would like to rush on to the matter of urgent public importance which relates to our travelling people, especially those coming from South Africa.

Madam Speaker, our people who are coming from South Africa have are being subjected to different inconveniences, especially when they pass through the OR Tambo International Airport. They are required to produce a Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccination certificate. As you may know, this requirement was relaxed in the region, especially after COVID-19 was subdued in some way.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

As I guided, please do not debate. Also, you have not stated which hon. Minister you are directing your matter of urgent public importance at.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, this matter involves the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International C o-operation as well as the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, the COVID-19 vaccine requirement is inconveniencing our travelling population, especially those passing through the OR Tambo International Airport in South Africa and those who are coming from Europe. I raise this matter because some members of the public who are using this route are coming to seek medical attention and they are inconvenienced at the point of exit when they have possibly run out of resources.

Madam Speaker, I have in my hands, a document that I will surrender to your office, that is costing K1,157.79 not rand to obtain. To me, when members of the public are travelling, at the point of exit, they are not psychologically prepared to get this document. Some of them have been forced to incur expenses on accommodation and food. They are inconvenienced in different ways and more than they calculate and their trips to Zambia are curtailed.

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance especially that the South African Airways did indicate that it got instructions from Zambia that such is the requirement as the people enter Zambia. This is how far my case goes.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Chilubi. Whereas the matter you have raised is important, it does not qualify to be admitted as a matter of urgent public importance.

Hon. Member, you are advised to put in an ordinary question.

MR KANG’OMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR KAMFINSA, ON MRS NALUMANGO, THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON ZAMBIA NOT ATTENDING THE INTERNATIONAL PARLIAMENTARY CONFERENCE HELD BY RUSSIA AND AFRICAN COUNTRIES

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I wish to first of all, welcome you back. Allow me to direct my matter of urgent public importance at Her Honour the Vice-President, seeing that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation is not present today.

Madam Speaker, on 20^th March, 2023, an international conference took place in Russia. This international conference was themed “International Parliamentary Conference on Russia and Africa.” In that particular conference, there were different Heads of State who attended that high level engagement. From the conference proceedings, we note that His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia did not attend that conference. We also note that Her Honour the Vice-President also did not attend that high level conference. We also note that in that conference, there was no delegation at a very level from the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the question that the people of Zambia are asking, which leads me to my matter of urgent public importance, relates to our relationships and our relations between Zambia and Russia. The observation that the people are making is that Zambia’s relations with Russia are not as warm as they were.

Madam Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President in order not to assure this nation or the people that Zambia continues to enjoy warm and cordial relations with Russia?

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Unfortunately, hon. Member for Kamfinsa, if you had followed my guidance, you would have known that that matter which you have raised touches on Zambian foreign policy or Zambia’s relationship with Russia, and therefore, does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. If no answer is provided today, what catastrophe will result? Please, put in a question in the ordinary manner and then the hon. Minister will answer or address it.

Hon. Members, please, as you raise your matters, note that we have a lot of work to do. So, if you are curtailed, do not feel like you are being stopped from expressing yourself. We need to manage our time.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON MR KABUSWE, THE HON. MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT, ON PEOPLE WORKING IN MINES IN ZAMBIA BUT LIVING IN SOUTH AFRICA AND COMMUTING DAILY TO ZAMBIA

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Petauke Central, to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, the matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam Speaker, in the North-Western Province, there are many mines. Geological reports show that there are a lot of minerals there and gold is one of them. Some workers stay in Johannesburg, South Africa, but they work in the mines in the North-Western Province. They commute every day using private aeroplanes and private airstrips.

Madam Speaker, every day, our minerals, especially gold, are leaving Zambia. We have many things which –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central!

Clearly, the matter that you are bringing up does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance according to Standing Order No. 134 and 135. Please, familiarise yourself with the Standing Orders. I have given guidance. If nothing is done about those people who are flying from South Africa to Zambia, particularly to the North-Western Province –

Mr J. E. Banda: I have not finished, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: You were debating. We have other matters to attend to.

Hon. Member for Mpika.

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON DR MUSOKOTWANE, THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, ON THE IMF PACKAGE

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134, read together with Standing Order No. 135(c).

Madam Speaker, most of our hardworking civil servants are swimming in debts. They are unable to sustain their lives, more especially in the face of the high cost of living and the increased Statutory Reserve Ratio from 9 per cent to 11.5 per cent. The cost of living has skyrocketed to about K9,900 for a family of five.

Madam Speaker, at the backdrop of this is the International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout package, whose conditions are very harsh. Generally, our people are suffering. They are hungry and tired.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance –

Madam Speaker: Order, Hon. Member.

Raise your matter of urgent public importance. Please, do not debate.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. When will he update the nation on the benefits that the Zambian people have started accruing from the IMF bailout package?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, the matter you have raised is important, and the people of Zambia would want to know what the benefits they are accruing from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) package, but it does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. If you feel so strongly about it, please, put in an urgent question and it will be addressed.

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON MR MTOLO, THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, ON SENDING RELIEF MAIZE TO NAKONDE

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the people of Nakonde. Madam Speaker, my matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Madam Speaker, the cost of living now in Zambia is unbearable. In the recent past, we have seen our people queuing up to buy mealie meal. This situation has not spared my people in Nakonde. As I speak, in Nakonde, a bag of mealie meal is K300, making it impossible –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Nakonde, please, raise your matter of urgent public importance quickly.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, I was saying that ba bag of mealie meal in Nakonde is K300. To our surprise, we are seeing trucks carrying maize to Tanzania and passing through our border.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Agriculture in order to remain quiet and not provide us with relief maize so that, we, the people of Nakonde, can benefit from this aspect?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. Of course, people need to eat, but please, hon. Member for Nakonde, put in an urgent question.

MR J. CHIBUYE, HON. MEMBER FOR ROAN, ON MRS NALUMANGO, HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON WHETHER THERE ARE ZAMBIANS WHO DIED DURING CYCLONE FREDDY IN MALAWI

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Let me also join others in welcoming you back to the Chamber.

Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Madam Speaker, in the past one or two weeks, there has been destruction left by Cyclone Freddy in the Republic of Malawi. Cyclone Freddy has left destruction on infrastructure, humans and animals, and there has been loss of lives.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is a close neighbour to Malawi and shares common values and borders. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation whether there were any Zambians among the lives lost in Malawi, who could have been visiting that place or doing business during the cyclone.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, let me also salute the people of Zambia, through the Republican President, for acting swiftly. Zambia was the first country to take aid ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye: ... to our brothers and sisters in Malawi.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. On that issue, I think there were some reports. Maybe, Her Honour the Vice-President can indicate if any Zambian died in Malawi.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, as far as the Government is concerned, from the reports coming from Malawi and even from Mozambique, none of our people died out of the calamity. Indeed, some have been affected but they are not dead. Our Zambian people and the Malawian Government are continuously updating us. No Zambian has died as far as we know.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I recall that I saw a statement in the press about that. So, no Zambian died. We thank God for that and we sympathise with the people of Mozambique and Malawi for the catastrophe that befell them.

MR SAMAKAYI, HON. MEMBER FOR MWINILUNGA, ON MR MTOLO, THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, ON MAIZE ABOUT TO ROT IN FRA DEPOTS IN MWINILUNGA

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I wish to convey the appreciation from Members of Parliament of the Pan-African Parliament (PAP) to the Government of the Republic of Zambia for coming to the aid of the people of Malawi.

Madam Speaker, the people of Mwinilunga are experiencing hunger in the midst of maize that is rotting in the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) depots.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Agriculture willing to instruct the FRA to sell the maize that is about to rot to the people of Mwinilunga so that we can stop the looming hunger in the district and constituency?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, as I said on hunger earlier, people need to eat, but, of course, that question does not arise as a matter of urgent public importance. Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, you are advised to put in an urgent question, which can be addressed by the hon. Minister.

MS NYIRENDA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNDAZI, ON ENG. MILUPI, THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ON THE STATE OF BRIDGES IN LUNDAZI

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): On matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, thank you and welcome back. The matter I raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Ms Nyirenda resumed her seat.

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member. What is the matter of urgent public importance?

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, Cyclone Freddy, which is in Malawi, is affecting our constituency, Lundazi, such that Mwase Bridge is halfway broken. We risk Kambale Bridge and Chimutyulu Bridge being washed away. I have forwarded the details of the happenings at the bridge right now to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. If nothing is done, the people of Lundazi will be cut-off from the Boma and the rest of the district.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker: I have seen the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Rural Development in the House. Maybe, you can just advise us on the issue. I understand you have been in communication with the hon. Member for Lundazi.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, we spoke about the bridge a few days go. Indeed, even this afternoon, we have spoken and she has reported that there is a wash away. I have promised her that we will send the Road Development Agency (RDA) Regional Manager to the site to assess the damage and what can be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, there is an assurance that something is being done. So, the Government is aware and there is no need to raise it as a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Madam Speaker: What is the question, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu?

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment came to the august House and updated us about this Cyclone Freddy. During his update, he indicated the countries that were going to be affected, such as Malawi and Zambia. Further, he mentioned parts of Zambia that were going to be affected.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, when you hear concerns coming from Lundazi about the bridges that are almost getting washed away, it is the same situation between Shiwang’andu and Chama. There is a bridge that is almost collapsing. Maybe, what will be required is more information, since this is one Government. We were alerted in advance and we would just want to know what contingency measures are being put in place to address some of the threats to our people following Cyclone Freddy. What happened in Malawi could happen here not long from now. Could there be that assurance from the Executive?

Madam Speaker: I now do not know whether it is the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment or the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development who is going to answer. Probably the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment can respond.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, I say thank you very much to Hon. Kampyongo.

Madam Speaker, indeed, as stated during the update on tropical storm Freddy that it would affect certain parts of Zambia. That has come to pass. The remnants from tropical storm Freddy, which dissipated much more in Malawi, where there is a lot of devastation, have also devastated some parts of Zambia, Chama in particular. Just as I did during that update, I update the House that my ministry is working with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), under the Vice-President’s office, and has put in place the necessary measures. Even as we speak right now, the DMMU is on the ground. I think the Vice-President’s office, with ourselves, are very well-prepared to ensure that the necessarily measures are taken.

Madam Speaker, it would be gratifying to my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, to note that on the infrastructure side, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, Hon. Milupi, has also sent a team there to ensure that there is a complete assessment of infrastructure damage. I do not know if it has arrived now. Further, the Government has formed a Technical Committee to look at the various infrastructure, particularly the roads and dams, because there are many dams that have been destroyed as a result of tropical storm Freddy.

In short, Madam Speaker, I am speaking on behalf of the DMMU and the Vice-President, whom we work with very closely, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, and the Ministry of Health because when there is flooding, there are many water-borne diseases. So, comprehensively, a multi-sectoral approach has been put in place to ensure that what Hon. Kampyongo has raised is taken care of.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that explanation.

DR CHILUFYA, HON. MEMBER FOR MANSA CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON THE AVAILABILITY OF DRUGS IN HOSPITALS

Dr Chilufya (Mansa Central): On matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, on Sunday, while driving along Chikwa Road towards Addis Ababa Drive, my attention was drawn towards the outer lane where a number of vehicles were parked and motorists and pedestrians were surrounding a young man who was convulsing violently on the road. The young man had collapsed, and being a doctor that I am, I could not bypass the patient. I stopped by to assist in the response.

Madam Speaker, I led the response and in a few minutes, the young man regained consciousness and told his story. His story was that he was an epileptic who was on daily medication, but he had missed medication for five days because he had run out of medicine and he had no money to buy the medicine from a pharmacy. He had a prescription from a public health institution.

Madam Speaker, the patient collapsed while walking from Levy Mwanawasa Teaching Hospital to John Laing compound on a busy artery. Gallant citizens, motorists and pedestrians, managed to support the patient.

Madam Speaker, I raise this matter of urgent public importance on the hon. Minister of Health. There are many other epileptics in the country who could be convulsing and falling into fires, on the roads, into fires and into water, but probably do not get our attention.

Madam Speaker, the sanctity of life demands that we ensure drugs to treat all chronic disorders, including epilepsy, are on the shelves. For how long are we going to neglect the persistent outage of medicines in our public health facilities? If the situation is allowed unabated, it will result in more mobidity and possible deaths.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think the matter that has been raised relates to the issue of availability of medicines, which we did discuss in the House. Maybe, the best thing to do, hon. Member, is just to put in an urgent question, which can be addressed by the hon. Minister. Maybe, the hon. Minister can go back and gather some more information.

MR B. MPUNDU, HON. MEMBER FOR NKANA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ENG. MILUPI, ON THE CANCELLATION OF THE TENDER FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF CHIBULUMA ROAD

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): On matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 134.

Madam Speaker, in the last couple of days from Friday last week, I have been under a lot of pressure from threats that have been made by truck drivers and the travelling public, including people in my constituency, Nkana, over the announcement that was made on Friday that the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), had decided to cancel the tender for the construction of Chibuluma Road, six months down the line.

Madam Speaker, you have ruled twice before this House when I brought this matter. The reason you ruled that it is a matter that is qualified to be treated urgently was because of constant reports of criminal activities on that stretch owing to the dilapidation of the road.

Madam Speaker, this House was promised through a statement by the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, that the Government was going to attend to that road. Along the way, action was taken and a tender was started. That tender was, however, cancelled six months down the process.

Madam Speaker, if this matter is not treated with the urgency it deserves, I can guarantee this House and the nation at large that the reports we used to receive of criminals taking advantage on that stretch will be double this time around because the road has even deteriorated further. The rainy season is upon us and if no action is taken, the dilapidation will get worse. If the protest is staged, as threatened by these drivers, it will disrupt the normal business and no normal person would stand to wait for that disaster to happen. Is the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, who I believe, cannot join in having the propensity to lie, in order to sit and not inform the public why the RDA has cancelled the tender without having the courtesy to inform the public why it made that decision?

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker: I would not underrate the hon. Minister when it comes to running because he has run in sandy areas. So, he must be very good at running. Hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, do you have anything to say?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the issue of the Chibuluma Road has been discussed. I just want to assure the hon. Member for Nkana that there is action being taken. There are many reasons why a tender maybe cancelled. Among them, is when the tendered prices are way above budget and also, when those that have tendered may not have met certain requirements. What I can assure the hon. Member is that today, maybe, up to now, the Road Development Agency (RDA) board members are in a meeting to resolve this particular situation.

Madam Speaker, as to why the tender was cancelled and announced by RDA, that is purely administrative. It was to ensure that the job can be done but done within the costs that have been budgeted for. When the board members finish their meeting today, we shall know the direction. We are very conscious of the fact that this road needs to be done, and it will done. One of the reasons for the delays is that we still have the rainy season. However, as soon as the rainy season is over, hon. Member will see works commencing on this particular road. It is only 7 km, anyway.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mpundu: Madam Speaker, what we do understand is that when a tender is cancelled, it indicates, or there is a possibility that the process may be restarted. With what is seemingly an assurance from the hon. Minister, it brings us to this fear now; it took over five months for that process up to the time it was cancelled last week. If another process is started, I do not know when the works will commence. From the statement or the response by the hon. Minister, we are talking about five to six months from now.

Madam Speaker, the rainfall does not wait for us and works will never be done in the rainy season. Could the hon. Minister assure us that these works are going to be done before the rainy season or they will continue even throughout the rainy season. The fear is that the rainfall is about to set in and the process may take as long as the rainy season.

I seek an answer, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, if you want more details on that issue, I would advise that you put in an urgent question. From what you are saying now, the matter is getting out of what the requirement or the criterion for admission of a matter of urgent public importance, it is now talking about cancelation of a tender which is administrative. An administrative matter cannot be admitted in accordance with Standing Order No. 135(1)(c). So, if you want your question to be answered, you can put in an urgent question. The hon. Minister has assured the House. The reason I admitted it is that you were saying that there was criminality and that people were going to die. However, from what you were debating, the issue is the cancelation of the tender. That is the reason I am now saying it has moved from a matter urgent public importance to an administrative matter, which you can put in an urgent question. Please be guided accordingly.

Mr Kampyongo indicated.

Madam Speaker: No. I have advised the hon. Member to put in an urgent question. I am sure you were listening when I was giving guidance.

MR MUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR KANTANSHI, ON MRS NALUMANGO, HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON PRESIDENTIAL TRIPS ABROAD

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): On a matter or urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. I equally rise on Standing Order No. 135 directed at Her Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, you have always ruled that the matters that we should bring relating to this Standing Order should indicate the catastrophe that will happen. However, it becomes difficult to put in a question. I hope you will be able guide on this matter.

Madam Speaker, when the President of the Republic of Zambia travels, it is at a very high cost. Usually, he travels on business for the Zambian Government for the benefit of the growth of our economy and some of the issues that were being raised about the cost of living. He was recently in Qatar and the Government has not issued any statement, whatsoever, on the Floor of this House to tell us what the benefits of that trip by the President.

Madam Speaker, further, next week, we will be hosting the Summit for Democracy, and it is going to attract a number of countries. As such, Zambia will be on the spotlight. Again, the Government is quiet and it cannot share with us and the people of Zambia what the benefits and opportunities of the meetings on the sidelines.

Madam Speaker, you will agree with me that the Government has been very inconsistent in explaining to the people of Zambia, particularly making use of the Floor of this House, so that we are able to be on the same page and we appreciate what opportunities will come out of these visits for the benefit of every Zambian in this country.

Madam Speaker I seek your indulgence on this matter that I have directed at Her Honour the Vice-President so we can bring a rest to this. As you have heard from what I explained, it is even difficult to raise a question.

Madam Speaker: The issue of the President travelling out or not travelling out has been raised before on the Floor of this House. With regards to the benefits that are accrued from these trips, there was a question that was asked and the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation did address the House on that. However, since you want to know more on the trip to Qatar and the conference that is going to be held, it is better you put in an urgent question and it will be addressed.

That concludes our matters of urgent public importance. We make progress.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF MULEMA SAMPA HEALTH POST IN MALOLE

208. Mr Fube (Chilubi) (on behalf of Amb. Kalimi (Malole)) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when the construction of Mulema Sampa Health Post in Malole Parliamentary Constituency will be completed;
2. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is; and
3. what the timeframe for the completion of the outstanding works is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the question was asked by Hon. Amb. Kalimi, Member of Parliament for Chinsali –Sorry, its Malole, on the way to Chinsali.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: Geography.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the construction of Mulema Sampa Health Post in Malole Parliamentary Constituency in Mungwi District of the Northern Province will be completed in the second quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the delay in completing the project is due to financial constraints.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the completion of the outstanding works is estimated at one month.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, there is a lot of whispering and consulting going on. We are not following the answers. For those hon. Members who wish to consult, they can step out briefly to consult so that they do not interrupt the proceedings.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the people of Mulema Sampa can only access health facilities from where they are, within a radius of 100 km. In making follow-ups, maybe, the hon. Minister should be aware that there was some money that the Government sent to the provincial headquarters in the Northern Province. The building is at eighty-five per cent. What is happening with the money that it is now not channelled to the contractor to complete the fifteen per cent of the works remaining?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member for Chilubi for the follow-up question. The contractor there is Crambus General Dealers. The contract sum is K448,276.95. To date, a total of K396,129.99 has been certified and paid to the contractor.

Madam Speaker, the health post has been roofed, plastered and doors and window frames fitted. The remaining works on the construction of the health post are painting and glazing.

Madam Speaker, I already stated that works will be completed within the next quarter. In fact, I specifically said, within one month. So, that means the money is available and the contractor is already on site.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, it is just a follow-up on what he has raised and is linked to my first question. As far as I am concerned, the contractor is not yet on site. I agree with the hon. Minister that the money has been sent, but it has not been channelled to the contractor to complete the remaining 15 per cent of the work. The contractor, as of four days ago, was not on site, but the hon. Minister says the contractor is on site. Maybe, when is the ministry willing to send people that can go and check to make sure that the contractor does value for money.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the commitment of the Government is that this building will be completed within the second quarter. Our information is that the contractor is on site. If he is not on site, maybe, the hon. Member has better information. However, there is no question of a lack of funds for this particular work to be completed. The commitment of the Government is that it will be completed. We think that by the end of April, it should be finished, certainly, within the first quarter.

Madam Speaker: So, there are no further supplementary questions on this question. I just want to state that we were together, yesterday, with the hon. Member for Malole in Malole. So, for him to have travelled back in time for the session, I think, was not possible, bearing in mind the condition of the road. I wish him a safe trip as he drives back to Lusaka.

CONSTRUCTION OF A WATER RETICULATION PLANT IN CHEMBE

209. Mr. C. Mpundu (Chembe) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a water reticulation plant in Chembe District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that, yes, the Government has plans to construct a water reticulation plant in Chembe District.

Madam Speaker, the contractor is on site and works commenced during the fourth quarter of 2022. One borehole has since been drilled successfully and the contractor has concluded procuring the remaining materials for the reticulation system.

Madam Speaker, as at (a) above, the Government has plans to construct a water reticulation plant in Chembe District.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, looking at Chembe, water is quite available and can be tapped from the river. When are we going to graduate, as Chembe District, from drawing water from boreholes to drawing from the Luapula River and treating it? We can tap the water instead of using boreholes every time?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chembe for that supplementary question. The question he asked earlier was very specific to whether we had plans to set up a water reticulation plant, which I responded to. In terms of whether we have plans to develop another abstraction plant from the Luapula River, that can be assessed and determined by the population of Chembe, where it does require that kind of resource and investment. So, we can engage each other with the hon. Member just to appreciate the demand levels of water in that district.

Madam Speaker, it must be appreciated that Chembe is one of the newly established districts and, through that engagement, I think, we can do a study to see whether, truly, we need to increase the investment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: There is a call, hon. Member for Chembe, to engage the hon. Minister. Please, take advantage of that for the benefit of the people of Chembe.

Madam Speaker: There is a call, hon. Member for Chembe, to engage the hon. Minister. Please, take advantage of that for the benefit of the people of Chembe.

CONSTRUCTION OF A POLICE STATION AND STAFF HOUSES IN LUSANGAZI

210. Mr E. Daka (Msanzala) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

1. when construction of the following infrastructure in Lusangazi District will commence;

(i)        a police station; and

(ii)        staff houses;

1. what the estimated cost of the project is; and
2. what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a modern Grade A police station and staff houses in Lusangazi District. The plans will be implemented when on-going projects which are at least 80 per cent and above are completed, as well as when funds are made available.

Madam Speaker, the current estimated cost of building a modern Grade A police station and ninety-five housing units is K62 million. The estimated timeframe for constructing a modern police station and ninety-five housing units is two years.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, thank you very much …

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members.!

There is too much noise. There is too much talking both on my right and left. Please, can we reduce on the whispering? I do not know if there is something interesting that I missed?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Msanzala, you may proceed.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, we asked that question in order for us as a district to plan to construct a small police post for our people. Our police lack where to keep the suspects and even where to work from. So, I ask this question to be guided if at all this construction will be done now or we can …

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

No hon. Member is supposed to give the Hon. Speaker their back when walking out. Even when standing, no one is allowed to give the Hon. Speaker his or her back. Please, can we go back to the rules and observe them. Sorry, hon. Member for Msanzala, you were interrupted. Please…

Hon. Mukosa walked backwards.

Madam Speaker: Yes, that is how we should be walking.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Msanzala, you may proceed.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guide. I would like to find out if we can use part of our Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to construct a mini-police post as we are waiting for the project to commence.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I would like to welcome the offer by the hon. Member for Msanzala to build a police post as we await the construction of a Grade A police station in Lusangazi District.

Madam Speaker, I will encourage him to proceed and we will be able to offer the drawings for a small police post.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO UPGRADE CHIWANDA PRIMARY SCHOOL IN ISOKA

211. Ms. Nakaponda (Isoka) asked the Minister of Education:

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Chiwanda Primary School in Isoka District to a secondary school; 
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House thatthe Government has no immediate plans to upgrade Chiwanda Primary School to a secondary school status.

Madam Speaker, due to the response in part (a) part (b) falls off and (c) there are no such plans because the Government has opted to annex a secondary school to the Chiwanda Primary School and has since started constructing a 1x2 classroom block which is at window level.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, Chiwanda Primary School has rich historical attachment as it is one of the oldest primary schools in Isoka where I, your hon. Member of Parliament, had primary education from 1971 to 1977.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, the school is located in the central place and attracts the largest of pupils and teachers.

Madam Speaker, the school has vast space to highly be considered for an upgrade in order to cater for deserving pupils. So, why can the Government not consider upgrading Chiwanda Primary School so that it can decongest a nearby school, which is Muchinga Day Secondary School which has 1,500 pupils and receives learners from five highly enrolled primary schools?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think I did indicate that instead of upgrading the school to a secondary school, we have annexed the building of a secondary school.As she rightly said, the school has too much land to annex a secondary school. So, instead of us displacing more than 2000 primary school learners, we would rather annex another secondary school which was started in 2015,but it stopped. I am confident that the local authority has allocated funds to complete the project by the end of this year. So, instead of us displacing more than 2,000 pupils we would rather just annex because of the land which is plenty there.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, what assurance is the hon. Minister going to tell the people of Isoka so that they can be aware of the information he has just given.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, at the expense of repeating myself, it is just the same answer I gave. That was the bigger assurance in itself, alright.

Laughter

PLANS TO ELECTRIFY SCHOOLS IN MKAIKA

212. Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Energy:

1. whether the Government has any plans to electrify the following schools in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Chimtende;
2. Chinkaombe;
3. Mzime; and
4. Lukweta; and

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker,the Government of the Republic Zambia, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has plans to electrify the following schools in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Chimtende;
2. Chinkaombe;
3. Mzime; and
4. Lukweta.

Madam Speaker, in 2019, feasibility studies were conducted to establish the scope of work for the electrification of the aforementioned schools. The studies revealed that the cost of the project is K67.2 million. The works involve the construction of a 72 km High TensionOverhead Linefrom an existing 33kV line, a 45km Low Voltage Network, and the installation of fifteentransformers. The additional beneficiaries of the project include Pachulu Primary School, Walira Primary School, Makwenda Rural Health Centre, and Mnaula Rural Health Centre and their surrounding communities.

Madam Speaker, the aforementioned schools are earmarked for electrification in 2024, which is next year, subject to the availability of funds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MrPhiri: Madam Speaker, indeed, as the hon. Minister said in his response, feasibility studies were done in 2019. Now, from 2019 to date, a good three years have passed.When are we likely to see works atChimtende Day High Secondary School and the surrounding areas?

Mr Kapala:Madam Speaker, since it has been indicated that the electrification of the schools will be done next year, I will get back to the House or to the hon. Member of Parliament once the work plan for REA is done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, taking advantage of the question from the hon. Member for Mkaika,may I know when the hon. Minister of Energy will avail us the information, you directed him to avail to us, regarding the rates of connection feesthat thepeople in rural areas will be paying, such asthe people in Chimtende who are waiting to be connected to the national grid. He promised to avail that information to us so that we can guide our people properly. What is the problem?Why has the hon. Minister not given us that information as he was directed?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, I understand you promised to deliver the list of rates.Is there any challenge or is it something that can be done?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, it looks like the time I was clarifying this situation, the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu was not in the House. I indicated to the House that the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), REA and ZESCO Limited are looking at a system whereby REA willbe able to connect all the rural areas to the national grid and then ZESCO Limited will install the meters. The current estimate for the installation ofthe meter is only K1,400. As such, if one pays50 per cent of that, which is K700, one’s household willbe connectedto the national grid and the balance of K700 will be spread over twelve months. However, we are looking at the possibility of adding the connectionfees onto the tariffs that ZESCO Limited willbe applying.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker:So, that is good news for the people.

Mr Kampyongorose.

Madam Speaker: No! Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, it is only one question per person.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker,the hon. Minister indicated that Chimtendeareawill be connected to the national grid, subject to the availability of funds.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I remember very well when this matter was brought to the attention of the hon. Minister; he was responding to a question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli. When I asked him to give us the structure–remember at one point we had a contention where he was comparing–

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu! You are raising a point of order.What breach has been occasioned?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the breach is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65 (1) (b). The hon. Minister in his response, insinuated that at the point he was making a clarification on tariffs and connection fees, I was absent from the House. However, let me remind him that I was present. At per the directive, it was agreed that he would give us the structure of connection fees applicable to the rural areas, just as we have seen the connection fees that they have published for the other consumers of electricity. So, the hon. Minister promised to give us a fee structure that will be applicable to the rural areas. Is he in order to change the position today and give figures, which he did not give on the day you directed him to do so? He did not have the information, and that is why he promised to come backto the House, to give us the information.

I seek your serious ruling on this matter, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker:That point of order appears to be a rebuttal ofwhat the hon. Minister said. I do not recall giving that directive. Maybe,the people who were in the House can assist us.

Hon. Minister, were you given that undertaking? I cannot remember giving that directive. I do not knowwhether it was me or myDeputies who were here.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, last week, I issued a ministerial statement on rural connection fees. I clarified that we want to split the rural connection fees so that REA can connect the infrastructure to the national grid and ZESCO Limited’s job will just betoinstall the meters. This is what was contained in the ministerial statement. Unfortunately, thehon. Member for Shiwang’andu was not in the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: That can only be proved by video evidence. So, whether the hon. Member was there or not,is now water under the bridge.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, I am just making a follow-upregarding the hon. Minister’s answerthat the schools will be electrified next year, subject to the availability of funds. Is the hon. Minister able to confirm whether his ministry willhave a budget to electrify the four schools next year?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I indicated that REA would come up with a work plan. Once it comes up with a work plan, we will be able to ascertain which months or dates the schools will be electrified. As long as it has been indicated that they will be electrified next year, a programme will be drawn towards achieving that.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, I believe your question has been asked. I heard you asking a question and then the hon. Member for Mandevu quickly took it out of your mouth.

Laughter

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out, because the hon. Minister stated that rural connection fees would be splitted in two, 50 per cent, …

Ms Sefulo: Split!

Mr Simumba: Yes, splitted.

Laughter

Mr Simumba: Split!

Ms Sefulo: Yes!

Mr Simumba: Yes, that is English.

Laughter

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out about the rural connection fees. Will the people of Chimuntende benefit from what the hon. Minister stated that if they can pay K700 now, and after connection, they pay the other K700?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, as far as I know, Mkaika Constituency is in a rural area, and rural areas will be connected by REA.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, do you still want to ask a question?

Mr P Phiri interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Before the hon. Member for Mkaika rises, hon. Member for Mkushi South, do you still want to ask a question?

Mr Chisopa indicated dissent.

Madam Speaker: That is okay. I received a note, or maybe it was from the hon. Member for Mkushi North.

Hon. Member for Mkushi North, did you indicate to ask a question?

Mr C. Chibuye indicated dissent.

Madam Speaker: You did not indicate. Okay, somebody was trying to mislead me.

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, according to the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) guidelines where we are to give the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) K1 million, do you think the money is enough to connect areas such as Chimtende in my constituency because we really need electricity in those places?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I indicated that the cost is K67.2 million. Therefore, the K1 million that will be required from all constituencies will be aggregated, and projects in selected areas will be embarked on. It does not mean that when we collect K1 million from Mkaika Constituency, it will be allocated to the constituency. Maybe, this year it will go to Bangweulu Constituency.

Hon. PF Member: Question!

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we have drawn up a programme that we will present once it is completed. It will indicate what areas and types of projects will be included in that K1 million.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, just for the purpose of clarification, is the programme going to be distributed to hon. Members?

Mr Kapala indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: So, it will be distributed to

hon. Members.

CONNECTION OF HEALTH FACILITIES IN KASENENGWA TO THE NATIONAL

GRID

213. Ms Phiri (Milanzi) (on behalf of Mr. Twasa (Kasenengwa)) asked the Minister of Energy:

1. whether the Government has any plans to connect the following health facilities in Kasenengwa District to the national electricity grid:

1. Chipembaulo Mini Hospital;
2. Luona Mini Hospital;
3. Kasenengwa Clinic; and
4. Chizenje Clinic; and

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia through the REA has plans to electrify the following health facilities in Kasenengwa Constituency; Chipembaulo Mini-Hospital, Luona Mini-Hospital, Kasenengwa Clinic and Chizenje Clinic.

Madam Speaker, feasibility studies of Kasenengwa Clinic and Chizenje Clinic have been undertaken to establish the scope of works for electrification. The estimated cost of the project is K12,424,699.77.

Madam Speaker, the works involve construction of a 7km high tension overhead line from an existing 11kV line, 10 km of low voltage network, and installation of five transformers. The additional beneficiaries of the project include Gundani Primary School, Luona Primary School, Kasuma Primary School and Kasenengwa Primary School. Feasibility studies of Chipembaulo and Luona mini hospitals are yet to be undertaken since, at that time, the two health facilities were still under construction

Madam Speaker, the mentioned health facilities are earmarked for electrification in 2024, subject to availability of funds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms M Phiri: Madam Speaker, which quarter of next year?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, according to the answer that was given, there is some infrastructure that was not completed at the time. So, we need to establish whether they have been worked on so that they can be included in the work plan, and scope of work. That is when we can give a definite timeframe for when they will be started.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I want to find out where the funds indicated that might be available for the works are expected to come from Constituency Development Fund (CDF) or from the ministry’s budget.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the funds will come from the Government as an allocation to REA.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, just to find out from the hon. Minister whether the hon. Member for Kasenengwa’s area could be covered by funds the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development has requested hon. Members to apportion to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) for rural electrification programmes in various constituencies from the 2023 Constituency Development Fund (CDF)?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I thought you had given guidance that once the programme of works is completed, we would share the information with all hon. Members so that they know what areas would be prioritised, and those that would be undertaken towards the end of the project.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister the question was whether the hon. Member for Kasenengwa would benefit from the money that would be apportioned from CDF.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I cannot specifically say that Kasenengwa will benefit immediately. However, it is part of the overall project we are going to implement. So, probably, the constituency might stand out first and other areas covered later on.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying constituencies will pay money to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) and then, REA will decide whether to do some works in the constituency or not. Does the hon. Minister not think there will be some challenges, especially when it comes to auditing? I think that in my constituency, the money may not be used this year, but next year, yet still show that K1 million was paid to REA. Does the hon. Minister not think that there will be some misunderstanding on the same?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, rural electrification is a national project. That is why we asked for an additional K1 million from all constituencies. That way, we are going to accelerate the implementation of projects because REA had suffered due to very low funding in the past. So, we are trying to get to 51 per cent connections by 2030. So, we are in a hurry to provide electricity to our rural areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

I will allow only one question per hon. Member.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: No! The points of order are coming in as questions.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, you can engage the hon. Minister. Maybe, let me just help. What the hon. Member wanted to know is whether there will be no audit queries when the money is taken from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and paid to REA, but the constituency does not benefit from the programme in the year the money is paid. That was the question. Hon. Minister, maybe, just try to clarify.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, this money will be collected from local Government as a lump sum. The distribution will depend on the projects and the costing of the whole project.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Now, I do not know whether it will be on rotation basis. Will it be on rotation basis? Now, I am helping with the …

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Maybe, hon. Members are not yet clear with the whole process of this money. The hon. Minister can come back with some more information.

Mr Kapala indicated assent.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, although you have already ruled, I would like to get a clarification from the hon. Minister. Which guidelines is he proposing to use to mop up all the monies for the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) and which law are we going to base the transfer or mopping up all the monies back into the local Government Account on?

Madam Speaker: I think the hon. Minister will come back with more details on that issue.

CONSTRUCTION OF COMMUNICATION TOWERS IN MILANZI PARLIAMENTARY COSNTITUENCY

214. Ms. Phiri (Milanzi) asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

(a)     whether the Government has any plans to construct communication towers in the following Wards in Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Kapoche;
2. Kafumbwe;
3. Katiula;
4. Kamphambe; and
5. Chidwele.

(b)     if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c)     if there are no such plans, why?

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct communication towers in all parts of the country, including Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency to ensure enhanced communication coverage to all unserved and underserved areas.

Madam, the Government will construct the Katuila Tower which will be erected at Katiula Secondary School. This area has been surveyed and will be among the Phase III Project earmarked to be constructed in the unserved and underserved communities in the 2023 financial year.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament submitted eight additional underserved areas will which include Kapoche, Kafumbwe, Kamphambe and Chandwale, which are being surveyed to determine an optimal location for population coverage in the constituency.

Madam Speaker, the implementation plan for Katiula Tower will commence in the second quarter of 2023. In the second quarter, Kapoche, Kafumbwe, Kamphambe and Chandwale will be surveyed respectively.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Again, there is more talking. Hon. Member for Kalulushi, what was the answer that the hon. Minister gave?

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses. After interacting with Zamtel, it would appear that there is some gap between the ministry and Zamtel in the roll out of these community towers. To a larger extent, some of these towers are now becoming a challenging for Zamtel to service because of the low customer subscribers in some of the rural areas. Therefore, it is failing to break even in some situations.

Madam Speaker, what policy is the ministry coming up with so that Zamtel is, on one hand, not negatively affected in terms of cash flow, but to also ensure that our rural people like in Kasenengwa are given an opportunity to be connected to the rest of the country. This is a very delicate undertaking, which the ministry needs to balance. After the Committee on Parastatal Bodies interacted with Zamtel, it was clear that this is a big challenge. So, I would like to hear from the hon. Minister what policy is in place to strike this balance.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, firstly, it is not a policy challenge, but a financial condition of Zamtel that is inhibiting it to undertake the erection of communication towers in particular. Secondly, there are towers that are being erected in a number of areas, but the passive equipment has not been placed. So, what we are doing from the Government side through ZICTA is to be able to assist to put the passive equipment onto those towers that have been erected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, may the hon. Minister clarify because by now, Zambians know that this Government is good at making promises and not fulfilling them.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister assuring, …

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let us allow the hon. Member to ask his question. Hon. Members, please, let us learn to co-exist with each other in peace. Let us not bring in matters that are going to attract acrimony. You may ask your question.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am asking this question because we are all looking forward to this Government providing communication towers. We were asked –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, ask your supplementary question.

Mr Mung’andu: In the hon. Ministers response, he indicated before the end of the year and that the ministry is taking inventory of the areas that are underserved. Is he assuring our people in that area, and many others where hon. Members have submitted, that the Government will construct towers or will it be, like usual, just mere promises without delivery?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I am sure the hon. Member of Chama South can confirm that one of the promises that the Government made was to deliver the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), of which he is a participant. So, we are a Government that delivers on promises.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the Government did a desk top analysis that informed it where it can plant towers. However, in order to ensure that coverage is enhanced, it is currently undertaking a survey to confirm that analysis. This survey is being assisted by the input that hon. Members of Parliament gave to the ministry, to ensure that towers are planted in the correct places. The survey was slowed down because of the rains, and by the end of April, it would have been completed.

Madam Speaker, in addition, this Friday, we would have closed for the first thirty-one towers that will we start to plant in April. In the second quarter, the Government is going to undertake to plant, at least, 100 towers to ensure connectivity, particularly, for the un-served and the underserved constituencies.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms M. Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to be categorical on how many communication towers the Government is putting up in Milanzi Constituency. The people of Milanzi are looking forward to improved mobile communication network. I would like to know the number. How many?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I did indicate that we are now on the ground carrying out a survey to inform where towers will be planted. Our focus and the way it is done is not so much on planting a tower in a particular ward, but being able to reach areas and ensure that we cover people in various wards and constituencies. So, it is coverage rather than location that we are working on.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Simplified, it is not about the number of towers, but the coverage.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister is speaking in technical language.

Laughter

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am worried because a good number of hon. Members of Parliament, both on your left and right, probably 90 per cent, use Airtel mobile phone numbers, except me because I use the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel) network. The company we are pushing to invest in rural areas like Milanzi is Zamtel. It is Zamtel that is going to be servicing them and paying for electricity. If it is solar power, it is also going to be maintaining power connectivity to the towers.

Madam Speaker, since there is so much alignment with the business community or hon. Members of Parliament with Airtel, why do we not push it rather than push Zamtel? It does not even have money to continue putting up towers, but big companies like MTN and Airtel are shunning rural areas. Why not encourage MTN and Airtel to erect towers in rural areas?

Madam Speaker, if you go to Milanzi today, the entire Boma is using Airtel and in the rural areas Zamtel. Therefore, why not encourage Airtel and MTN to start investing in the rural areas so that the profit they are making in the cities can be shared with the people in the rural areas.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the towers that I am talking about will not be constructed by the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel). Those towers will be constructed through the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) Universal Access Fund, which is a Government fund. So, it has no impact on Zamtel.

Madam Speaker, secondly, as part of the licensing conditions, all telecommunication operators have an obligation to erect communication towers in underserved and un-served areas. So, Airtel and MTN, as part of this condition, will also be compelled to erect towers even in Milanzi.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South) Madam Speaker, between 2011 and 2021, there was a programme which the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel) undertook to erect towers in all chiefdoms. However, those towers have short coverage. Recently, the hon. Minister requested us to submit the areas of our interest in our constituencies where we feel we need to have towers. Why not increase the coverage area on the existing towers as opposed to erecting new ones? The Government could just improve on the existing towers so that it can just increase on the coverage distance.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the strategy is two pronged. Firstly, it is the upgrading of the active system on the towers that already exist to increase coverage, and secondly, where the gaps continue to exist, the erecting of towers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, welcome back. While you were aware –

Interruptions

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, while you where away, some of your hon. Members where sulking.

Interruptions

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker,when the people of Luena heard that we were talking about towers, they became attentive. We are aware that the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority(ZICTA) has been going around taking coordinates for purposes of fixing or placing towers in those areas. The question they have is: How soon are these ZICTA towers going to be constructed? I know that the people of Nangula Ward–In fact, I told them two weeks ago that it would be constructed in the next three months. Would the hon. Minister, please confirm that it will be there before the end of the year?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, as we stand, I think we have finished approximately eight provinces and we have four remaining in terms of getting the coordinates. So, once we get the coordinates, the next thing would be for those coordinates to inform firstly, the location of the tower. Secondly, they would identify the specification required for the specific tower to be planted. Once we have that information, we would then advertise. We have confirmed that in the second quarter, we are going to plant at least 100 towers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you

Mr Menyani Zulu indicated.

Madam Speaker: Hon Member for Nyimba, you had already asked your question. Do you want to ask again? No.

Mr Menyani Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is against the hon. Minister of Technologyand Science and it is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. I know my elder brother comes from Lunte. He says that he has erected towers in eight provinces, and that he is remaining with four. I think in Zambia, we have ten provinces. Therefore, I do not know where the extra two provinces have come from.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, the hon. Minister is talking in anticipation.

Laughter

Madam Speaker, of course, there are ten provinces. Maybe, it was a slip of the tongue.

I will take questions from the last three hon. Members namely, the hon. Member for Msanzala, the hon. Member for Lundazi, and the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi. That will be the end. I think we have taken too much time on this question.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has told this House the number of towers that will be constructed in Milanzi. What will be the coverage of the towers that will be constructed in Chindwali area?

Madam Speaker: That question is very specific. I do not know if the hon. Minister will be able to provide the answer.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I want to remind my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba that the issue of the two extra provinces was deliberate to ensure that he remained awake in Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in terms of coverage, it is a technical question but on average,it is a 10 km radius.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving us a chance to ask a follow-up question to the hon.Minister of Technology and Science. Last week, the hon. Minister’s team was in Lundazi carrying out some assessment and I had a chance to speak with them and they openly told me that they could not go and plant a tower closer to the border lines because they did not want to be servicing the Malawian side. I know that even Milanzi is also bordering Mozambique. My question to the hon. Minister is: Does that mean that people who leave near the border lines will never have a Zambian network?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I am sure my team and the hon. Member were having a productive conversation. We shall provide a technical solution.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question. For the new towers that we are planting across the country, is the hon. Minister giving us an assurance that we will no longer have the Second Generation (2G), and the Third Generation (3G) of mobile networks, and that all the new towers will be based on the Fourth Generation (4G) and the Fifth Generation (5G) of mobile networksso that there is a true realisation of the digital transformation?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, our goal is to continuously improve and upgrade. We will ensure that we continue on that path of 4G. We are now working on 5G. So, I can assure the hon. Member that we are going to have the 4G upwards.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

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BILLS

FIRST READING

THE ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2023

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango) (on behalf ofthe Minister of Green Economy and Environment(Eng. Nzovu)): Madam Speaker, I beg to present aBill entitledthe Environmental Management (Amendment)Bill, N.A.B. No. 6 of 2023.The objects of the Bill are to:

1. revise the functions of the Zambia Environmental Management Agency;
2. harmonise the provisions relating to solid waste management with the Solid Waste Regulation and Management Act,2018;
3. domesticate the Kigali amendment to the MontrealProtocol on substances that deplete the Ozone layer;
4. provide the registration of pesticides or toxic substances;
5. revise the provision on summary imposition of penalties; and
6. provide for matters connected or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker:The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House in due course.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

SECOND READING

THE ANTI-TERRORISM AND NON-PROLIFERATION (Amendment) BILL, 2022

The Minister of Homes Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, Zambia enacted the Anti-Terrorism Act No. 21 of 2007 to criminalise acts of terrorism and their associated crimes. This Act alone was not adequate to deal with the emerging threats. As such, according to the United Nations (UN) and the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), a dedicated body was needed to enforce the Act.

Madam Speaker, this body would deal with the threat of terrorism and associated crimes such as terrorist financing. The 2007 Act was then amended by the Anti-Terrorism (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2015, which established the National Anti-Terrorism Centre (NATC), which was operationalised in February, 2017. The Anti-Terrorism (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2015, was repealed and replaced by Act No. 6 of 2018, known as the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation Act, which provided for proliferation offences. The said Act has undergone some amendments and is now being referred to as the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill No. 32 of 2022.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is a member of the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG), a regional body subscribing to global standards to combat money laundering and financing of terrorism and proliferation. All ESAAMLG member countries are subjected to regular reviews of different pieces of legislation for technical compliance and effectiveness. Member countries convene twice every year to discuss matters pertaining to assessments conducted and reviews are given.

Madam Speaker, in June, 2019, ESAAMLG completed its assessment of Zambia’s anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist and proliferation financing system. The mutual evaluation report of Zambia comprehensively reviewed the effectiveness of Zambia’s measures and their levels of compliance with the FATF recommendations and noted some deficiencies.

Madam Speaker, in addition, in March, 2022, Zambia received a follow-up report in which other deficiencies in the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation Act No. 6 of 2018, were identified. Further, more deficiencies were noted during the operations and investigations conducted by the centre. This necessitated the review and amendment of some provisions now contained in the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill No. 32 of 2022.

Madam Speaker, the object of this Bill is to amend the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation Act of 2018, so as to:

1. revise some existing definitions and insert new definitions that have been used;
2. revise the provisions relating to the administration of the centre;
3. revise some of the offences for purposes of enhancing the implementation of the Act; and
4. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, the NATC during the course of conducting operations and intelligence gathering and conforming to the legal mandate did note some gaps with regard to the enforcement of some provisions in the law, which necessitated some amendments. Further, ESAAMLG, after assessment of Zambia’s counter terrorism law, recommended improvement of the counter terrorism legislation to address the weaknesses observed.

Madam Speaker, amending the Act will strengthen its administration and make the country compliant to regional and global best practices. The amendment will make the legislation conform to the UN Security Council Resolutions 1267 and 1373. This will enhance Zambia’s counter terrorism regime as well as make it compliant to international and regional standards.

Madam Speaker, if our counter terrorism legislation is not enhanced, the country faces the risk of being rated as non-compliant to the FATF recommendations and standards espoused by ESAAMLG. This status may have adverse implications, as well as attract sanctions, including Zambia being rated as a high terrorist risk jurisdiction. This will make the country unattractive for investment.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I urge all hon. Members of this august House to support the Bill. The amendments contained in the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill No. 32 of 2022, herein are progressive and will contribute to building of capacity at the NATC with regard to the centre’s legal mandate, functions, operations and intelligence gathering.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central): Madam Speaker, the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs was tasked to scrutinise the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill No. 32 of 2022. In order to appreciate the ramifications of the Bill, the Committee sought both written and oral submissions from stakeholders.

Madam Speaker, as this House is already aware, the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill No. 32 of 2022 seeks to amend the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation Act, No. 6 of 2018, in order to strengthen the offences which, relate to terrorism, terrorism financing, proliferation and proliferation financing. The Bill also seeks to amend the principal Act in order to bring it in conformity with the regional standards in combating terrorism, terrorism financing, proliferation and proliferation financing.

Madam Speaker, Zambia is a member country of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) styled group called the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG). By being a member of this group, all member countries are subjected to regular reviews of different pieces of legislation for technical compliance and effectiveness. In addition, member countries are required to convene twice every year to discuss matters pertaining to assessments conducted and reviews are given. In line with the above, therefore, in March, 2022, Zambia received a follow up report in which additional deficiencies in the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation Act, No. 6 of 2018, were identified, as well as other deficiencies noted during the operations and investigations conducted by the National Anti-Terrorism Centre (NATC). It is this outcome which has necessitated the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill No. 32 of 2022.

Madam Speaker, let me state that the Committee is in support of the Bill. Similarly, stakeholders who appeared before the Committee supported most of the proposed amendments and pointed out that the Government needed to amend the Act in order to bring the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation Act, No. 6 of 2018, in conformity with regional standards in combating terrorism, terrorism financing, proliferation and proliferation financing.

Madam Speaker, let me mention that in supporting the Bill, stakeholders also raised some concerns that are recorded in your Committee’s report, which I am sure hon. Members have gone through. One of the concerns relates to the amendment of Section 2 of the Principal Act. Under Clause 2, your Committee observes that the definitions therein do not include the definitions of ‘supervisory authority’ and ‘competent authority’ as it is contained in the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, No. 11 of 2022. The Committee is aware that the definitions will be useful for purposes of dissemination and implementation of targeted financial sanctions that are contained in Part V of the Bill.

In this regard, Madam Speaker, your Committee recommends that the definitions of ‘supervisory authority’ and ‘competent authority’ should be inserted in line with the definitions under the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, No. 11 of 2022.

Madam Speaker, Clause 7(4) states that an anti-terrorism officer may, on production of an identity card or a certificate of appointment issued under Sub-section (2), demand the production of and inspect or make copies of any documents or financial accounts kept by a person. The Committee is, however, concerned that this might lead to an abuse of such power.

In this regard, your Committee recommends that sufficient mechanisms should be put in place to ensure that such power is regulated. There is further need for the provision to highlight circumstances that will require obtaining a warrant for such a search, to avoid creating weaknesses in the law, which may lead to loss of documents or financial accounts in question. 

Madam Speaker, the Bill under Clause 9 seeks to amend Section 18 of the Principal Act by deleting Sub-section (1) and replacing it with a provision that allows the freezing of funds for a terrorist organisation. Madam, this is a progressive amendment. However, your Committee is of the view that the freezing of funds by the reporting entity should be done through a court order and not upon a mere notification.

In this regard, your Committee recommends that the proposed amendment under Clause 9 should provide for freezing of funds, and the reporting entity should do so through a  court order and not on a mere notification. Further, your Committee recommends that the contravention of the court order should constitute an offence which should attract a penalty as contained under Section 18(2).

Madam speaker, clause 10 of the bill, proposes Sub-section 20(4) which states as follows:

"A person is considered to have committed an offence of terrorism financing or proliferation financing whether or not the funds or assets, belonging to that person, were used to commit a terrorist Act or proliferation, or linked to a specific terrorist act."

Madam, your Committee observes that the Sub-section will lead to a situation where any person with funds or assets can be considered to have committed an offence of terrorism financing or proliferation financing which should not be the case.

In this regard, your Committee recommends that Sub-section20(4) be amended by adding elements of intention or knowledge by the person that their funds or assets are to be used for terrorism financing or proliferation financing.  In this vein, Madam Speaker, the offence of terrorism financing or proliferations financing will then apply to the person who intends or knows that their funds or assets are to be used to commit a terrorist act or proliferation. 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to render my sincere gratitude to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly and the staff for the guidance and support services rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations. I also place on record the appreciation of the Committee to all stakeholders who made submissions to the Committee with regard to the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to make a few comments in support of the amendments being proposed to the Anti-Terrorism and Non-Proliferation (Amendment) Bill.

Madam Speaker, indeed this is a consequential amendment following the mutual assessment which the hon. Minister referred to, which is periodically done by the teams that were dispatched by Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG) to which Zambia belongs. Let me urge the hon. Minister to ensure that matching resources are put into the National Anti-Terrorism Centre and ensure that the collaboration between the National Anti-Terrorism Centre and the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) is enhanced. Just as your Committee is proposing to ensure that the two pieces of legislation speak to each other, it should be the same even in sharing of information. Through that, the concerns of your Committee will be addressed with the issue of anti-terrorism officers who are now being given the mandate to equally conduct searches of confiscation and ceasing of accounts. The FIC is well placed and I think it has been working very well with financial institutions in monitoring the movement of funds, including illicit funds that may end up in the activities of supporting the proliferation financing.

Madam Speaker, it should not just be for us to be compliant with the requirement of the ESAAMLG and the task force. However, we must also be proactive in ensuring that as we set up the units, they are practically supported. I am sure by now you have gotten to understand the challenges that have surrounded the operationalisation of the National Anti-Terrorism Centre. So, it will be prudent for the hon. Minister to make sure that as we revise the pieces of legislation, we also ensure that we capacitate the centre in order for it to keep the country prepared to react to any terrorist attack or whatever can happen in that regard.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I support the Bill.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank your Committee for the able manner it handled the Bill that was tabled before it. We will take into account the recommendations that it has made to my ministry. I also appreciate the debate of the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu. He should note that we appreciate the sentiments he made and that we shall take into account the issues he raised.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

_______

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Tuesday, 28^th March, 2023.

______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

COTTON GINNERY PLANT IN CHAMA DISTRICT

(Debate resumed)

207. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North)asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to establish a cotton ginnery plant in Chama District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to the hon. Member for Muchinga.

It appears the hon. Member for Muchinga is not in the House.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said the Government does not have plans of reopening the cotton ginnery in Chama, but that there were some discussions with the investor because that ginnery was run by Birchand Cotton. At least it used to employ 200 people in Chama. So, if the Government is in talks with the investor, are the discussions with Birchand Cotton promising so that, as quickly as possible, we can reopen that cotton ginnery because Chama produces a lot of first grade cotton. Furthermore, the reopening of that particular company will provide job opportunities. When does the hon. Minister think that the same can be realised?

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote) (on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo)): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. Indeed, we have a private investor in Chama who has been running that ginnery and due to some challenges the private investor was facing, he decided to go on break. The assurance is that we are in talks with the investor to make sure that the ginnery is repaired to continue servicing Chama District.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I think, I am yet to learn if at all that ginnery has ever run. According to the hon. Minister’s response, the investor opened the ginnery; more like it operated for some time. However, my understating is that that ginnery was just assembled and then it was abandoned. It has never operated. Should the investor not show interest, would the hon. Minister be in a position to look for others or go into negotiations so that others can take up that ginnery considering that almost, if not 80 per cent, of the cotton you see coming to Lusaka on the Great East Road comes from Chama?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question. Indeed, sometimes people would want to anticipate the outcome in the event that the investor fails to repair the ginnery. Currently, Chama District is being serviced by Parrogate and Mount Meru. They are the ones who are buying the cotton from our farmers. However, as Government, like we have been assuring, our role is to continue creating a conducive environment for our investors to invest where we believe that we have got potential. In a district such as Chama, we would not want to disappoint our farmers. Our job is to create a conducive environment for the private sector to also engage into developing our country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central an opportunity to ask a follow-up question to the hon. Acting Minister of Agriculture.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Agriculture is in the House. Your question is being addressed to the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. Hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock – but last week we were asking – anyway.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, Chama has farmers who plant more cotton than maize. Maize farmers have been helped by the Government. Is the ministry thinking in the same lines of helping the cotton farmers by, maybe, engaging the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to buy cotton from them as most of them fail to transport their produce due to the bad roads in Chama. Is the hon. Minister thinking in those lines so that the FRA can buy cotton from the farmers and then the Government can transport the cotton to the private sector?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the question the hon. Member has posed is really very difficult to understand because the issue to do with maize is a programme for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and we are not …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is a very serious procedural point of order on the Executive. The procedure is: When an hon. Minister is acting on behalf of another who is not in the House, the moment the substantive hon. Minister comes back to the House, he/she should take up the responsibility. It is why the hon. Minister on the Floor, you can see, is having challenges responding to the question. Last week ...

Hon. Government Members: It is New Dawn.

Mr Kampyongo: Learn. You do not learn.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Patriotic Front (PF) Whip, please, do not engage hon. Members.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, they do not want to learn and that is why we are having problems.

Madam Speaker: No, that is not a ...

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I was saying that the hon. Minister was acting as hon. Minister of Agriculture and that is why he is responding to this question. The substantive hon. Minister is back, and seated comfortably, who should have taken up that matter to conclude the question. Is the Executive in order to confuse us in this organised confusion of doing Business?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, we are slowly striding into a state of entropy, slowly going nowhere.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, on a serious note, is the Executive in order to conduct Business in this manner? I seek your very serious guidance.

Madam Speaker: I am not sure because when the order of the day was read, and they were talking of a ginnery, I was even trying to ask which hon. Minister was supposed to answer this question. I then saw the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock indicating that he was the one answering. So, that is why I called on him. He was continuing from where he left off. However, since the matter related to the Ministry of Agriculture and the hon. Minister of Agriculture was in the House, he should have answered the question. So, the hon. Minister of Agriculture should have picked up the questions. I think that is the procedure.

Otherwise, even I was saying ‘ginnery?’ Maybe that is why the hon. Member for Petauke Central was getting confused and bringing in the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). So, maybe, the hon. Minister of Agriculture – unless he does not have the necessary information at hand.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) deals with food. We do not, at the FRA, deal with non food items.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the point of order is directed at the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock. Is he in order to mislead the nation that I made a mistake by calling him the “Acting hon. Minister of Agriculture” when, last week, when we adjourned, he was acting as hon. Minister of Agriculture, and people out there are thinking that I made a mistake? So, I deserve an apology from him and for him to admit that he made the mistake and not me. I seek your guidance.

Madam Speaker: Alright, I think the confusion, misunderstanding or misapprehension is that when the question was asked on Friday, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock was acting as hon. Minister of Agriculture. I am sure he assumed that he would have to respond to any supplementary questions. However, as I earlier guided, since the hon. Minister of Agriculture is in the House, he should have taken up that responsibility to answer the question because the acting hon. Minister ceased acting when the hon. Minister of Agriculture resumed his duties. So, I can say that the hon. Ministers were out of order. What a note to conclude the day on.

Do we still have supplementary questions? I see none.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1716 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 22^nd March, 2023.

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