Debates- Wednesday, 4th July, 2012

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Wednesday, 4thJuly, 2012 

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that on Saturday, 30th June, 2012, there were friendly football and chess tournaments between hon. Members of Parliament from the National Assembly of Zambia and the Parliament of Malawi. The events took place at David Kaunda Stadium in Chipata. The purpose of the tournaments was to enhance relations between the two people’s representatives and, indeed, nations. The Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House, Hon. C. K. Banda, SC., MP, led the Zambian team and also took part in the football match.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: The Hon. Speaker of the National Assembly of Malawi, the Right Hon. Chimuntu Banda, MP, also took part in the football match. Our counterparts from Malawi, surprisingly, also had a netball team but, because we did not have one, a local netball team was hastily mobilised from amongst the residents of Chipata to play against the Malawian counterparts.


Mr Speaker: This experience, therefore, reveals a challenge to our female Parliamentarians to rise to the occasion for a return match scheduled for Lilongwe, Malawi.

Hon. Male Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The results were as follows: 


Malawi    5    Zambia    2


Mr Speaker:


Malawi    3    Zambia    1

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker:


Malawi    3    Zambia    10

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: This was a poached team.


Mr Speaker: In spite of the preceding results, hon. Members who took part in the tournament immensely enjoyed themselves and we look forward to a return leg in Malawi, where we expect that this record will be reversed.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!




395. Mr Mulomba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)when the Government would build the following facilities in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)a police station at Chivuna; and
(ii)police posts at Nkonkola, Musuma, Munenga, Mukuyu and Itebe; and

(b)when Magoye Police Station would be rehabilitated.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs has plans to build a police station at Chivuna when funds for the construction of police stations have been sourced. We also have plans to build police posts at Nkonkola, Musuma, Munenga, Mukuyu and Itebe in Magoye Constituency once funds have been sourced for the construction of more police posts. Magoye Police Station will only be rehabilitated when the Government has sourced funds for infrastructure rehabilitation. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, may I know specifically when the police station at Chivuna will be built, considering the size of the population in that area.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, in response to various questions by hon. Members of Parliament with respect to police infrastructure, we have stated that the present budgetary allocation for the ministry is not sufficient. So, we are sourcing funds outside the budget, by either borrowing or from friendly nations, in order to construct this infrastructure. Therefore, we can only give a definite date or time frame once we have sourced these funds. 

Mr Speaker, only last week, we considered the Report of your Committee on Government Assurances and we saw that our colleagues on your far left were making promises which they could not fulfill. We do not want to fall in the same trap. We want to make a statement which will be backed by action.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said that the said police posts will only be constructed when funds are made available. I seek guidance from the hon. Minister. Did the party in power know that there would be no funds when it took over Government so that in responding to our questions, this would be an excuse? At the moment, it is not known when these funds will be made available. Can the Government confirm to us that it never had an idea that funds would not be available.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Sakeni): Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Colleague is aware that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into power sometime in September last year and, definitely, as a new Government, it found a backlog of issues that have to be dealt with.

One of the most vexing problems we found, as a ministry, is that of housing and infrastructure such as police stations. In most areas which need these facilities, we found nothing on the ground. There were literally no plans to carry out this programme the way we want to because of lack of budgetary allocations over the years. Even my colleagues appreciate that there has not been money to plan ahead. However, the PF Government’s plan is to source money outside the budget because we cannot continue giving the same promissory notes. That is why we are saying that once we mobilise funds, we will inform the House the actual programme; when it will start and when it will end.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that sourcing funds is a function of priority in the budget? If so, do you intend to put Magoye and Chivuna police stations in your budget next year?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, I have said, time and again, that we want to tackle this problem. This is a national problem. We are not going to look at it from the angle of police stations, districts or provinces, but will solve it nationally. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, in most cases, whenever police posts are built, the local community is involved to help in moulding bricks and ferrying sand. Why does the Government not do this on its own?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, the issue of community participation came in as a result of the Government failing to provide the necessary service to its people. Many times, when people see that they need something to be put up urgently, they initiate the project and ask the Government to help. It is commendable for our people to actually do that. The hon. Member should also do the same in his constituency by encouraging people to participate in such projects and source some money so that he does not wait for longer to source funds. However, all in all, it is the Government’s business to put up police stations, police posts and houses.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, a few minutes ago, I heard the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs indicate that the Government does not want to be making assurances on the Floor of this House if it is not in a position to keep the assurances. I do recall that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing came to this House and made a statement that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) would be profiled in June, 2012.  Today is 4th July, 2012, and the Government has not come back to this House to inform us and the nation as to what has happened to that profiling. 

Sir, I am also aware that the people of Zambezi and Linda wards in Livingstone who were promised toilets by His Honour the Vice-President are very expectant and have been looking forward to utilising the CDF to buy the toilets. Is the Government in order not to come back to this House and inform us that it has failed to find the CDF to buy the toilets which it promised the people of Linda Ward? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I expected the point of order to relate to the statement that was made by the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. As I understood him, he was refraining from making an assurance without being sure that the assurance would come to pass. This is the very issue that you have raised. So, to that extent, the hon. Deputy Minister is certainly not out of order. I think he has taken a very prudent stand to avoid making an assurance without any basis. However, the substantive issues that you have raised do not, in fact, touch on the portfolio of the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. This notwithstanding, I will invite His Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to address this issue in due course.

The hon. Member for Mpongwe may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I had just started asking a question. The hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs indicated that the Government is going to source funds outside the budget. How is the Government going to spend the said funds?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, these are straightforward issues, and I am sure the hon. Member is aware of how the Government operates. Money is borrowed through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and, when any money is expended, this House, again, approves supplementary estimates that are brought before the House.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, some communities have constructed police posts on their own. What plans does the ministry have to upgrade the police posts so that they, in principle, conform to the standards set by the Ministry of Home Affairs?

Mr Sakeni: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important question. When we came into office, the ministry did not have a single plan of how a police post is supposed to look like. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Question.

Mr Sakeni: That is what I found as Minister of Home Affairs. Now, we are trying to come up with plans for an ideal police station and police post befitting a given district, a small and big town. Through that, I am sure we will be able to post officers to such stations. I can commend the hon. Member who has done that in her constituency. If you need staff, please, let the officers in the Ministry of Home Affairs in Mafinga Constituency know because they are on the ground to provide the necessary staff for the police posts.

I thank you, Sir.


396. Mr Njeulu (Sinjembela) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)whether there was any company that prospected for diamonds in Shang’ombo District between 2001 and 2004; and

(b)if so, what the results of the exercise were.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, Caledonian Mining, in joint venture with Motopo Diamonds, prospected for diamonds in the Shang’ombo area between 2001 and 2004. During the period prospecting works were undertaken by the two mining firms, there were no positive results for diamonds.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


397. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development how much money was required by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation ( ZESCO) Limited to supply electricity countrywide to the following facilities:

(a)    new residential houses;

(b)    farm houses; and

(c)    commercial properties.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Water Development (Mr C. Zulu): Mr Speaker, 1.1 billion is required by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) to electrify all the rural areas in Zambia by 2030. The electrification of urban and peri-urban areas is carried out by the ZESCO Limited on a customer request basis and …


Mr Speaker: May the hon. Members on my right stop consulting.

Mr C. Zulu: … the cost varies depending on the individual’s requirements.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Speaker only mentioned 1.1 billion. Is that amount in United States (US) dollars or Zambian kwacha?

Mr Speaker: I am sure you meant the hon. Deputy Minister, not the hon. Deputy Speaker who is in Johannesburg.


The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Resources (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, it is dollars, not kwacha.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer although it was not informative. Can the hon. Minister indicate how it will be possible, to achieve the Vision  2030 with the current charges of, for example, of K42 million, demanded by ZESCO …

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. The hon. Minister responding said that the money to be spent on rural electrification is in US dollars. 

Mr Speaker, a statutory instrument was signed by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, banning the quoting of prices of any service or goods in this country in foreign currency. Is the hon. Minister, therefore, in order to quote in US dollars?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: This is one of our usual challenges. This is not really a point of order. A point of order relates to rules of debate. If an issue arises in the course of an answer or response, hon. Members are free to follow it up with questions. Points of order are meant to ensure that we debate according to the rules of the House. That is the function of points of order. So, I will invite the hon. Member for Kalabo Central to follow up this issue with the hon. Minister who is still responding.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I was thanking the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development for a general, but uninformative answer. Can he indicate, even in general terms, the cost of electrification under the categories that were asked.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the master plan, which was compiled by our colleagues during their reign, did not specifically quantify the connections in that regard. It was a mere projection and that has a 65 per cent confidence level.

Mr Speaker, the figures we have given may not be exact. It might be more or less than the actual figures, but within the confidence level. We are going to electrify commercial, residential and domestic facilities within that amount we have mentioned. For commercial requirements that are not in rural areas, electricity is applied for. Like the hon. Deputy Minister has said, the quotation depends on the distance from the existing network and the required load. After payments have been made, we go ahead and connect the electricity. Therefore, it is not possible to quote exact figures. You also have to remember that although we take the grid extensions into areas, not everybody seeks connection. There are many grids that are running wild into the veld, but nobody has been connected to them. So, that question is difficult to answer, but we can quantify the connections when we finish the exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker gave the Floor to hon. Miyutu.


Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the question sought to know the actual amount ZESCO will spend on electrifying all the categories of consumers in kwacha, not dollars.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central goes into a bank or on one of those parliamentary trips overseas, it is entirely his responsibility to convert currencies, and I know he can do the same even with this amount. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Yaluma: You have been to school. So, you can convert at the prevailing exchange rate and multiply by 1.1 billion. You will get the answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that it is an offence to quote in United States dollars in this country, pursuant to the statutory instrument that was issued by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament must realise that the information contained in the Master Plan was derived from an exercise that was conducted some time back. All the quotations were given in US dollars. Now that we know the implication of the Statutory Instrument that has been released, we will explain the quotation in kwacha when the time comes.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, why has the ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development stopped electrifying the residential areas, farm blocks and new areas that need electricity? 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, that is a sweeping statement. I would appreciate it if the hon. Member could be more specific because, as far as I know, electrification of areas is on going. I can cite people who are in this august House whose areas were electrified in the past three months.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


398. Mr Sichula (Nakonde) asked:

(a)    whether feasibility studies for the construction of a bridge on Kalungu River to connect Chungu to Katukauchi in Nakonde had been undertaken; and 

(b)if not, when the studies would be undertaken.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, feasibility studies on the said river have not been carried out.

Mr Speaker, feasibility studies will only be conducted once they have been included in next year’s Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP). We appreciate the fact that this is the shortest possible route to Nakonde via the D18 Road. 

Sir, the other bridge was washed away in 2003 and no work has been done on it. This is one of the thirty-seven bridges that were washed away in the Northern Province, out of which only four have been worked on so far. The Regional Engineer has been sending requests over the years for funding to attend to the bridges. The four bridges that have been worked on include, Luena on the Luwingu/Chilubi Island Road, Tonga in Mwenewise in Mafinga District, Kalomboshi and Lubwa. The bridge in question has not been worked on due to limited funds.

I thank you, Sir.

399. Mr Chitotela (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a)    whether the Government had plans to recognise sub-chiefs in the country
    by granting them full chief status; and 

(b)if so, when the process would start.

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mrs Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to recognise sub-chiefs by granting them full chief status. This is an expensive venture and the 287 chiefs countrywide are already doing the work required.

Mr Speaker, given the answer to part (a) of the question, part (b) has also been answered.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, being an hon. Member of Parliament in a rural constituency, I have seen sub-chiefs superintending over serious matters. Is the Government considering giving them financial incentives?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, we have over 800 sub-chiefs countrywide. Currently, the Government is not thinking of giving any incentives to them.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, most sub-chiefs were established by the colonial masters because of being patriotic. Therefore, the colonial masters, at that time, amalgamated them. Is the hon. Minister aware that some of the seventy-three tribes in Zambia do not have officially recognised leaders by the Government? If the hon. Minister is aware of this, what is the PF Government’s policy on reversing the injustice that was done by the colonial masters by recognition them as full chiefs?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has spoken the truth. I also have a sub-chief where I come from, who is in the same situation. I come from Mweshi in Lunga District.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Please, address the Chair.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, I was saying that we have recently increased the incentives for chiefs from K1.5 million to K4 million. We would like to see how far we can go with this. Afterwards, we may think of incentives for sub-chiefs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, we have heard, time and again, that the PF Government attaches great importance to the traditional leadership, chiefs in particular. Why, then, has the Government denied granting sub-chiefs full chief status solely on account of costs?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, that is a new question and I will have to research further. Let the hon. Member raise that question next time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in the spirit of transparency, I would like to inform you that I am a sub-chief. Therefore, I would like to declare interest before I ask my question.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Will you be able to debate after declaring interest?


Mr Speaker: Anyway, you can proceed.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the Western Province, commonly known as Barotseland, is a very wide geographical area with many tribes, over seventy tribes, in fact. It has a king and a few chiefs. Would the Government consider recognising chiefdoms like Mwene Kahare and Mwene Mutondo in Barotseland?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I assume that you are referring to the Western Province.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, you are right.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, all the chiefs in the Western Province are answerable to the Paramount Chief, the Litunga. If the sub-chiefs have any problems, they should first go to the Litunga before the matter can come to us.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is now the Government’s position to compel Nkoya chiefs to recognise the Litunga as the legitimate ruler of the Western Province. I have asked this question because of the statement by the hon. Minister that all the chiefs in the Western Province will have to go through the Litunga to get to the Government.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, that is the law. It is not all the Nkoyas who will have to go through the Litunga to get to the Government because some of them are in the North-Western Province. Those in the North-Western Province are dealt with differently, but those in the Western Province will have to go through the Litunga to get to the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, another part of the traditional leadership that we have in this country is that of headmen. Is this Government considering supporting them, for example, by providing them with bicycles for the sake of mobility?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, my Government attaches a lot of importance to headmen because they are the people who bring information from the people to the chiefs. We would like to help them, perhaps, not in the manner which has been suggested by the hon. Member. We would like to build their capacity so that they can help with the governance of the chiefdoms.

However, I do not know whether helping headmen with bicycles will be the best way of enhancing their mobility because, in my area, we use boats and not bicycles.

I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s response to the hon. Member of Parliament for Mafinga’s question, she stated that the Government increased incentives from K1.5 million to K4 million …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I stand on a serious and compelling point of order. The hon. Minister, in her answer, referred specifically to the area where she comes from as being a place where only boats are used as a means of transportation. This is despite her being an hon. Minister responsible for the whole country. Is she in order to ignore the question on account of one specific area at the expense of other areas which may need bicycles? I seek your serious ruling.


Mr Speaker: Order!

I will request the hon. Minister to revert to that issue as she continues responding to questions and indicate the Government’s position vis-à-vis the issue raised by the hon. Member for Rufunsa.

Could the hon. Member for Namwala, please, continue.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, as I was saying, the hon. Minister, in her response to the hon. Member for Mafinga’s question, stated that the Government increased the incentives to chiefs from K1.5 million to K4 million. That is why the hon. Member for Mbabala wanted to know what the criterion was for recognising chiefs. The PF Government seems to prefer to consider the amount of incentives available when deciding to recognise certain sub-chiefs as chiefs. That is why he asked …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Put the question. Do not make a statement.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, why should the hon. Minister state that the question by the hon. Member of Mbabala is a new question when, in her answer to the question raised by the hon. Member for Mafinga, she talked about the incentives which are given to chiefs?

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am not sure whether the question has been well framed.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, I did not get the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, on behalf of the Nkoya-speaking people of the Western Province, the Nkoya Royal Council, through the Kazanga Cultural Association, in most of its pronouncements, has indicated its support for the PF Government. The hon. Minister has categorically …


Mr Speaker: Order!

What is the question, hon. Member?

Dr Kalila: I am building up the question, Sir.


Dr Kalila … stated that the Nkoya-speaking people, in fact, have no voice and should go through the Lozis to get to the Government. Is this not a slap in the face of the Nkoya-speaking people? 

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, at the moment, nothing has changed. All the Nkoya people in the Western Province have to go through the Litunga to get to the Government. That is the way the situation is. We have listened to the complaints of the Nkoya people being sidelined for a long time. We are trying to strategically find ways of how we can help them not to feel that way. For now, the situation will remain the same.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister categorically stated the importance of the village headmen in the governance system of this country. She also emphasised that the Government would like to capacitate them as much as possible. Could she tell us what she means exactly by capacitating the headmen.

Hon. Government Members: Workshop!

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, we would like to organise workshops …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Kabanshi: … for the village headmen so that they can be trained in entrepreneurship. That is the capacity building we are talking about. Maybe, later on, we can help them to learn more about other governance issues.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, I wish to find out why the Government is just considering financial implications when deciding to turn sub-chiefs into full chiefs. This is a follow-up question to the one which was raised by the hon. Members of Parliament for Mafinga and Namwala, respectively. Why not state the fact that there are tribes which would like their sub-chiefs upgraded in spite of the financial considerations?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, my Government holds the position of chief in high esteem. That is why we would like to build houses for chiefs so that they live comfortably. If you go round and see the conditions in which our chiefs live, you would cry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Cry, cry!

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, that is why we would like to start the upgrading process with a small number. Later on, we will think of other ways of improving the quality of lives of our chiefs.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


400. Mr Mulomba asked the hon. Minister of Health:

(a)whether the Government had plans to upgrade the following clinics in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency to hospitals:


(ii)Mukuyu; and


(b)if so, when the upgrading would begin; and

(c)when the Government would construct clinics at Chimwaikila and Kasako fishing villages.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, the Government has no plans to upgrade Magoye, Mukuyu and Munenga clinics in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency to the level of hospitals

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that for a health facility to be upgraded to a first-level hospital, the catchment population should be 180,000 or above. Magoye, Mukuyu and Munenga have a catchment population of 16,151, 6,248 and 5,916, respectively, which is far less than the catchment population that the Ministry of Health uses for upgrading. Further, the House may wish to note that Magoye, Mukuyu and Munenga are 23 km, 20 km, and 21 km, respectively, away from Mazabuka District Hospital. As such, it may not be feasible to upgrade the above-mentioned clinics to first level hospital status as they are within an average radius of 21 km from an already established first-level hospital in Mazabuka District.

Mr Speaker, as stated earlier, the Government has no plans to upgrade Magoye, Mukuyu and Munenga clinics in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency to hospitals.

Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct clinics at Chimwaikila and Kasako fishing villages. The House may wish to note that Chimwaikila and Kasako are part of the over twenty-two fishing camps located in the Kafue Plains and on isolated islands. The construction of buildings would not be feasible in such areas because they are water logged. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the Government has no plan, whatsoever, to provide quality health services to the people of Chimwaikila and Kasako. Is the Government in a position to provide water transport since the people in those areas need health services?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to provide health services throughout the country. It also has plans to provide emergency health services in areas where they are required. Therefore, the areas which are water logged are provided with health services using boats.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I want to know if the hon. Minister has any idea about the population in Chimwaikila and whether mobile clinics are available in the area.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, we do not have any data regarding the population of Chimwaikila. I just want to mention that this area has a seasonal population. When it is time for fishing, the population is big and, when there is a fish ban, it decreases. We still have intentions of making sure that mobile clinics are available in the area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister has indicated to this House and to the nation that clinical services could not be provided to one of these places because it is within 21 km from a referral hospital. Is the hon. Minister aware that in certain localities such as Lusaka, Kabwata Clinic, for example, is less than 2 km away from the University Teaching Hospital (UTH)? Does he also know that Chilenje Clinic is less than 21 km away from the UTH? Why is it that when it comes to certain areas, the ministry is discriminatory in terms of providing its services?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member did not get me clearly. We talked about population and catchment areas. On that basis, we correctly responded to the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, to help the hon. Member for…

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Just ask your question.


Mr Speaker: You do not need to provide any assistance to anybody.


Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, it is now common knowledge that this country will be receiving a loan from India to put up a number of rural health centres.  Is the Government not considering apportioning part of these funds towards the construction of a clinic for the young man over there?


Mr Speaker: Order! 

I am sure these clinics are not meant for individuals.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the Government has secured a loan from India for the construction of 650 health posts throughout the country. The areas which will benefit from this loan have already been identified. However, I wish to state that we still have other funds within the Budget which will cater for the areas which will not benefit from this loan. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister made reference to the provision of mobile health facilities. I want to find out whether the mobile hospitals that the Patriotic Front (PF) condemned when the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was in power are now attractive to them. Do they now see value in having the mobile hospitals?

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the mobile health service has now been properly packaged so that it can meet the needs of our people. I think that we do not need to digress from that direction. 

I thank you, Sir.


401. Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)whether there were any plans to construct a boarding school in Mwembeshi Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b)whether there were any plans to convert the following community schools into Government schools;




(iv)Shikaluma; and


The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government is currently completing the on-going construction of high schools. In addition, new high schools are earmarked for construction and Mwembeshi Constituency will be considered in the 2013 Budget. 

Mr Speaker, earlier on, we indicated, on the Floor of this House, that the upgrading of community schools is part of the policy intent of the PF Government. I, therefore, would like to assure the hon. Member that the community schools that he mentioned will be considered once the upgrading begins. 

I thank you, Sir. 


402. Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu) (on behalf of Mr Mushanga) (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:

(a)when the Government would construct a modern stadium in Kabwe; and 

(b)when the Government would rehabilitate the following stadia in Kabwe:

(i)Winter Muleya;
(ii)President; and
(iii)Railway Grounds.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mubukwanu): Mr Speaker, currently, there are no immediate plans to construct a modern stadium in Kabwe because of financial constraints. However, there are plans to rehabilitate all provincial stadia in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP). In 2012, there is a provision of K483,651,954 for the rehabilitation of three provincial stadia, namely Kasama, Mansa and Livingstone. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to advise that Winter Muleya Stadium will be rehabilitated in line with the SNDP. However, this project has to be budgeted for. Secondly, I would like to advise that due to limited resources, the Ministry of Youth and Sport has not planned to rehabilitate President Stadium. Furthermore, I would like to inform the House that the Government has no plans to rehabilitate the Railway Grounds. This is because the stadium is a privately-owned facility by the Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ). In this regard, therefore, the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, through the Permanent Secretary, will engage the RSZ management on the possibilities of rehabilitating the facility. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, Kabwe is a few kilometres from Lusaka and it could be an ideal place to host sporting activities in the event that we, as a country, decided to host a major sporting event. Would the ministry not consider Kabwe as a priority before going to other provinces.

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, at the moment, we only have plans to build the Livingstone Stadium. If, however, funds permit, we will consider Kabwe. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the concession that the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) has with the RSZ actually spells out the responsibility of the latter and confers it to maintain and rehabilitate Railway Grounds. 

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, ideally, that is supposed to be the position. Let me state, however, that when we gave the concession to the RSZ, certain things were overlooked. The RSZ took up the sponsorship of Kabwe Warriors and, by virtue of this sponsorship, it is supposed to be extended to the rehabilitation of the stadium. These are issues that we need to look at. If need arises, we can ask for a change in the concession. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the ministry has any plans for Kabwe, this year, concerning football stadia.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I believe that Cabinet shares a collective responsibility. Therefore, when making the budget, it sits to discuss. The policy that our predecessors left behind was that every province would only rehabilitate provincial stadia. What is in the Budget is the rehabilitation of the provincial stadium, which is Winter Muleya, and the hon. Deputy Minister made mention of that.  

I thank you, Sir. 


403. Dr Chituwo asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)whether the ministry was aware that some girls’ hostels, teachers’ houses and a laboratory block at Mumbwa High School had been declared unfit for human habitation; and

(b)    if so, what immediate plans the ministry had to normalise the situation. 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the ministry is not aware that some girls’ hostels, teachers’ houses and a laboratory block at Mumbwa High School had been declared unfit for human habitation. The ministry is, however, aware that such structures at the school need urgent repairs and rehabilitation. 

Mr Speaker, since we are aware that the structures at Mumbwa High School need repair works, we have made a provision in the 2012 Infrastructure Plan to address some of these challenges. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker is the hon. Minister aware that it is not just Mumbwa High School that lacks hostels for pupils and good houses for teachers, but all schools in the country?  

Mr Mabumba: Yes, Mr Speaker, we are aware. 

I thank you, Sir. 


Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the common answer from Cabinet in this House, when its attention is drawn to a given project, is, “When resources will be made available.” Now, we are told that this particular high school needs urgent attention. However, where will the resources come from? I would like to know. 

The Minister of Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the reply to the question put by the hon. Member for Mumbwa was very specific. We are not aware that the girls’ hostels, teachers’ houses and a laboratory block have been declared unfit for human habitation. 

However, we are aware that Mumbwa High School, among the many schools constructed in the Kenneth Kaunda (KK) era, is in dire need of rehabilitation. Since the question was specifically on Mumbwa High School, there is a provision to rehabilitate the school in the 2012 Budget. There are no constraints whatsoever as referred to by the hon. Member for Lukulu West. The answer for Mumbwa High School, specifically, is very straightforward. We will try as much as possible to rehabilitate the school. 

I wish I could give an indication of how many of these KK schools will be rehabilitated. This, however, is outside the question asked. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I was fairly impressed to receive high ranking officials from the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and the Permanent Secretary of Central Province to look at this particular problem in Mumbwa. Promises were made.

Going by the answer given by the hon. Minister, is he aware that, currently, there is no laboratory and one is just being constructed using community funds? At the moment, the construction of one hostel had to be abandoned. That being the case, what effort is the ministry making to complement the efforts in teaching and learning so that the results are not compromised at the end of the learning programme?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, answers that hon. Ministers give to the questions raised by the various hon. Members of Parliament are obtained from the districts and provincial teams. 

I am glad that the hon. Member, Dr General − what other term have I forgotten? − Brig-General Dr Chituwo …


Dr Phiri: … has rightly put it. I am impressed that my team went to Mumbwa to inspect this school. Arising from that tour, we want to do a little more to help the local community improve the facilities at the school.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


404. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Tourism: 

(a)how much money was paid as licence fees to the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) for fishing within the Mweru-Wantipa National Park in Kaputa District; and

(b)whether the fees also applied to the local community.

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and Tourism (Dr Lungu): Mr Speaker, according to Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 60 of 2007 on Regulations and Fees, a person pays K250, 020 per month for artisanal (traditional fishing) in national parks such as Mweru-Wantipa. While for angling (sport fishing), a person pays K18,900.00 per day or K567,000 per month.

Sir, the artisanal fishing fees apply to the local community.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, how much could have been raised from 2008 to 2011 from these exercises on the lake in question?

Dr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the total is K214, 573,586, for a period of four years. This can be broken down as follows, year by year:

Year    Amounts Realised

2008    74,469,880

2009    38,671,180

2010    34,556,700

2011        66,875,826

Total    214,573,586

Thank you, Mr Speaker.


405. Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning whether there had been any benefits that accrued to the economy as of 31st March, 2012, following the reduction in fuel prices and the sale of maize grain at discounted rates by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). If so, what the benefits were.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott) (on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Chikwanda)): Mr Speaker, the Government took a decision to offload 1,067,000 metric tonnes, which is just over a million metric tonnes of maize, on the market on 1st November, 2011. As at 31st March, 2012, the FRA had sold 902,492 metric tonnes of maize valued at US$132,801,724 from the authorised 1,067,000 metric tonnes. For those who are concerned with the statutory instruments (SIs), the sum of money involved is about K700 billion.

Sir, the sale of maize at discounted rates has accrued the following economic benefits:

(a)Zambian consumers have made savings from reduced commodity prices which have increased their disposable income;

(b)lower oil, mealie-meal and maize-related food prices have resulted in lower monthly national inflation rates;

(c)maize exports to the sub-region have resulted in increased foreign exchange earnings, which have contributed to the improvement in the country’s balance of payment position, relative to having allowed no exports at all;

(d)rural communities have benefited through enhanced food security during the lean period of the year, that is to say from November to April;

(e)part of the proceeds realised have been used for amortising the FRA’s commercial loans amounting to K600 billion which were secured to pay farmers; and 

(f)the reduction in stockfeed prices has resulted in reduced cost of production which has benefited consumers.

Sir, I thank you.

Mr Matafwali: Mr Speaker, given that there is a downward slide in the prices of crude oil on the international market, does the Government have any intention of reducing the oil prices any further?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, by my reading, that is well outside the scope of the question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President tell the House what the average cost price of this commodity was at the time of production and what the incremental value that accrued due to storage and, maybe, transportation against the sale price at the time the 902,492 metric tonnes were offloaded was. I would appreciate it if, in his answer, His Honour the Vice-President states whether there was a profit or loss that was made as a result of the sale of 1,067,000 metric tonnes of maize?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that is a bonus answer being asked for, there.

The cost of maize to the FRA − I am now not referring to the farmers’ cost, but to the FRA − on average, was about K100,000 per bag in this period. That is K65,000 as the farm gate price plus transport and storage. The prices, as can be seen from US$133 million for about a million tonnes, is in the order of K40,000 to K45,000 per bag. Therefore, there is a considerable loss incurred, but that is more than a loss of the entire amount at an effective sales price of zero.

So, this was the situation that we discovered and this is the best, I believe, that we could make of it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I will limit my question to the sale of maize. I would like to know whether the sale of the discounted maize grain was discontinued. If not, when is it going to be discontinued?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the period the hon. Member is referring to is after the period being inquired about in the question. So, I am afraid I cannot say anything because it is not in the question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, would His Honour the Vice-President confirm to this House and the nation that the FRA will be able to liquidate the loans that it acquired to procure the maize and that the agency will also be able to pay for the services that have been rendered to it in the process of managing the maize.

Sir, if we are not careful, we will not have an agency in the next few months, especially if those loans are not taken care of.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the way the FRA is being operated, at the moment, is such that it is not a self-sustaining enterprise, as sums laid out in the Budget and expended on the last crop will indicate. 

Sir, as I have indicated, the cost of buying maize to the agency is in the region of K100,000 and the price at which it is selling is about K45 000 per bag. Therefore, there is a requirement, which is budgeted for, of a subsidy from the Government, so to say, from the taxpayer. Otherwise, the FRA cannot float.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


406. Mr Antonio asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when Mulamatila Basic School in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency, whose infrastructure is in a deplorable state, would be rehabilitated; and

(b)    when desks would be provided for the following basic schools:






(vi)Shimano; and


Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of Mulamatila Basic School in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency will be considered and provided for in the 2013 Budget.

Sir, the distribution of desks to the schools mentioned above is as follows:

Basic School    Desks Distributed in 2011    Desks to be Distributed by June, 2012

    Mulamatila    98                    30
Mulalila    20    20
Kalumwange    40                    20
Longe    60    20
Shishamba    Nil    60
Shimano    40    40
Nkeyema    20    40

I thank you, Sir.


407. Mr Mutale (Kwacha) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    when the maternity ward at Kwacha Clinic in Kwacha Parliamentary Constituency, whose construction was completed a long time ago, would become operational; and 

(b)    when the maternity wings would be constructed at the following health centres:


    (ii)    Ipusukilo;

    (iii)    Riverside; and

(iv)    Bulangililo.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the maternity ward at Kwacha Clinic in Kwacha Parliamentary Constituency will become operational this year. The delay in opening the maternity ward is due to lack of human resources and equipment.

Sir, the Government has, this year, commenced the procurement equipment and recruiting midwives to be posted to Kwacha Clinic. The maternity ward will be opened when both the human resources and requisite equipment are in place.

Mr Speaker, as indicated in (a) above, the Ministry of Health has challenges of shortage of qualified human resources, resulting in some facilities not being operational in spite of the availability of infrastructure.

Sir, the ministry has prioritised the completion and staffing of on-going projects before embarking on new ones. Once this problem has been solved, the Ministry of Health shall expand its facilities in Kitwe District to encompass maternity annexes at Mwaiseni, Ipusukilo, Riverside and Bulangililo. Expanding them with the current crisis will give rise to facilities that are non-operational for a long period.

Mr Speaker, in addition, the ministry has another problem of land encroachment in Kitwe. Some of the land reserved for the construction of maternity annexes, for example at Riverside, has been encroached on by squatters.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, it is pleasing to hear that the maternity ward at Kwacha Clinic will be operational this year. Taking into account the population in Kwacha Parliamentary Constituency, especially Ipusukilo, Mwaiseni and Bulangililo, the Government should seriously consider allocating funds for the construction of maternity wards in these areas.

Sir, can the Ministry, therefore, indicate when it will consider allocating funds, at least, to one of the clinics in the area.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has asked a very good question. We have already stated that the availability of appropriate human resources as well as the infrastructure or equipment is necessary for the operation of these facilities.

Therefore, as you are aware, we are now recruiting a number of health workers and procuring equipment. This will enable us to take the necessary steps.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether a mother’s shelter at Kwacha Clinic has been built. If not, why has this not been done?

Mr Speaker: Is that a supplementary question?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, we are talking about the maternity annex and ward. The shelter is not part of this. Therefore, we will answer that question at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Sir.


408. Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    how many bicycles were donated to schools in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency by the World Bicycle Relief Programme from 2000 to date; and

(b)    which schools benefited from the donation.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, 4,259 bicycles were donated to schools in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency by the World Bicycle Relief Programme from 2009 to date. A total of twenty-three schools benefited from the donation as follows:

(i)Chikankata Basic;
(ii)Lukwata Community School;
(iii)Hanzembwe Community;
(iv)Chilala Basic;
(v)Mweebo Basic;
(vi)Chilala Community;
(vii)Habulile Basic;
(viii)Bungashiya Basic;
(ix)Hanakamanga Basic;
(x)Mabombo Basic;
(xi)Hapuya Basic;
(xii)Habulile Community;
(xiii)Kalemu Basic;
(xiv)Sim Basic;
(xv)Chilwi Basic;
(xvi)Hambweka Community;
(xvii)Mikata Basic;
(xviii)Dunuka Basic;
(xix)Siantete Basic;
(xx)Siabunkulu Basic; and
(xxi)Kantini Community.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, was it the ministry which gave a directive to World Bicycle Relief to donate bicycles to schools like Hambweka Community School where there are literary no teachers?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, World Bicycle Relief is a non-governmental organisation (NGO) operating in liaison with World Vision. The choice of schools to donate to is left to the World Bicycle Relief Programme. All that we want to hear from World Bicycle Relief is the progress it makes. This far, we have paid tribute to them for this effort because, although research has not been conducted, a lot of improvement concerning children’s attendance in schools has been noted. We can only urge it to increase its area of operation, in consultation with us in the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, when the pupils who are given bicycles go to Grade 10, who do they leave the bicycles with? Do they take them with them or they hand them over to the remaining primary school pupils?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the programme has specific guidelines and one of them is that World Bicycle Relief identifies the most vulnerable pupils. If the use of the bicycles proves effective by improving the attendance in school, when a pupil graduates from Grade 7, he/she is given the bicycle as a reward for the efforts he/she has made.

Thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has made reference to the assessment of this very important programme. Are there immediate plans to undertake a thorough assessment of the impact of the programme in the areas that the programme is operating from?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, plans are there. When I last met this NGO, I did also indicate how valuable its input is in the lives of the rural children, particularly the girl child. We agreed that at some stage, we will have to institute some research to ascertain beyond any doubt the help that it has rendered to the rural children.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, indeed, this was a very good programme and Rufunsa Constituency benefited greatly from it. After the research, is the Government not considering requesting this NGO to repeat the programme? My constituency has already seen the results of this programme.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, there are on-going negotiations with this NGO to have the programme expanded. However, the expansion is based on one requirement, and that is World Vision should be present in an area. I think the two organisations work in tandem. However, there are negotiations to expand the programme to the rest of Zambia where bicycles can be used.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is the Government in a position to negotiate on behalf of some schools where World Vision may not be present because schools like Kakwacha and Washishi do not have World Vision noted in their area. Can the Government not take the responsibility of such vulnerable schools?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, that is very well spoken. That is part of the negotiations we are having with the NGO.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.


409. Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works Supply and Communication when the Luapula Valley Road, especially the stretch between Mwense and Mununshi, which was in a deplorable state, would be rehabilitated.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the road from Mansa to Kashikishi is currently undergoing holding maintenance works. The Road Development Agency (RDA) and Rural Roads Unit (RRU) are on site and carrying out emergency pothole patching between Mwense and Mununshi, which is the worst section of the Mansa/Kashikishi Road. This intervention is meant to provide immediate relief and a safe passage to road users.

Mr Speaker, let me also state that the RDA is advanced in the procurement process of the periodic maintenance of the 245-km stretch of the same road. The contract has been cleared by the Attorney- General’s Office and is expected to be signed next week at the latest. The contract sum for the periodic maintenance works is K66,085,321,500 and has a completion period of thirteen months. The scope of works includes, but is not limited to the following:

(i)pothole patching;
(ii)reconstruction of selected sections; and
(iii)surface dressing.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Deputy Minister for that good and elaborate answer. However, is there anything the ministry can do to expedite the works that are currently moving at a snail’s pace? Further, the work culture of the people on the ground leaves much to be desired.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, this is partly the reason we are carrying out holding maintenance works. Instead of waiting for periodic maintenance, we had to do holding maintenance works.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Monde (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, when will the contract be signed, especially that the process of signing contracts at the RDA now takes about three months? Is there anything that this Government is doing to reduce the lengthy procurement process for road construction?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, as far as the signing of the contract for this road is concerned, we are emphatic. It will be signed on the 14th July, 2012.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, the question raised by the hon. Member for Kawambwa was on the work culture of the people on the sites. What is the hon. Minister’s response on that?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question that has been raised by the hon. Member and wish to say that the work culture we found everywhere in Zambia, not only at the ministry, was terrible …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … and we cannot continue with it if we are to provide services to the people. That is why we have been talking about the need for people to change. There should be a paradigm shift. This is a working Government that wants to deliver what it promised the people, but cannot do so if people are working at a snail’s pace. So, we are instituting measures at the ministry to stop this, one of which is to ensure that there are inspections carried out. Also, we will ensure that holding maintenance works are done to ensure that things do not change. The work culture has to change completely not only at the ministry, but among all Zambians because some people still think they are working for the MMD Government. This is the PF Government.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!




Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Estimates for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 21st June, 2012.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, in line with its terms of reference, as set out in the Standing Orders, your Committee considered the budget process in Zambia and the likely impact of the Eurozone debt crisis on external budget support to Zambia. It also reviewed the Action-Taken Report on your previous Committee’s report.

In order to get a deeper insight into the topical issues, your Committee invited written memoranda and oral submissions from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the World Bank, the European Union (EU) Delegation to Zambia, the private sector, various civil society organisations and the general public. To appreciate what is obtaining on the ground, your Committee also undertook field-based oversight tours to the border towns of Victoria Falls, Kazungula and Katima Mulilo.

Mr Speaker, your Committee’s findings are clearly highlighted in its report. It is my sincere hope that hon. Members of Parliament have taken time to read it. I will, therefore, only highlight some of its salient issues.

Mr Speaker, your Committee regrets that it has taken a long time for Parliament to pass the Budget Act to guide the budget process in Zambia despite repeated recommendations from previous Committees of Parliament and the general public. Your Committee appreciates that the current legal framework might have served the country well in the past. However, it is of the view that the situation is no longer the same because, increasingly, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that your Committee appreciates that the current legal framework might have served the country well in the past. However, it is of the view that the situation is no longer the same because, increasingly, interest groups are demanding a participatory budgetary process. There is, therefore, an urgent need for the Government to present to Parliament for enactment a legal framework that will guide the budget process in Zambia and ensure the participation of various stakeholders. A wider consultative process will instill ownership and enhance accountability over the budgetary process.

Sir, the envisaged Budget Act shall also pave way for the establishment of the Budget Office here at Parliament. In jurisdictions like Kenya and Uganda, this office has served as an independent department of Parliament providing timely, well researched and unbiased analysis of the National Budget for Committees and Members of Parliament. Essentially, this office is supposed to mirror the activities of the Budget Office in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Sir, your Committee is aware that this House passed the Constitution Amendment Act No. 20 of 2009, in which it provided, through Article 118A, for Parliament to enact the budgeting and planning legislation. Essentially, this means that Parliament does not need to wait for the enactment of the draft Constitution for it to pass the Budget Bill. In view of the foregoing, your Committee strongly urges the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to urgently bring the Planning and Budgeting Bill for enactment by Parliament. Your Committee also urges the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to set aside funding to kick-start the establishment of the Parliamentary Budget Office in next year’s Budget.

Your Committee is aware that some provisions in the current Constitution regarding the Budget are clearly not in keeping with the principles of transparency and accountability. Your Committee notes that, while Article 117(4) of the Constitution provides for supplementary expenditure, it does not explain the type of activities that should qualify for such expenditure, thereby making it prone to abuse. 

Sir, ideally, supplementary expenditure is for meeting unforeseen expenditure, but this has not been the case in the past. Your Committee is saddened that some expenditure incurred in the past, which was treated as supplementary, was purely as a result of poor budgeting on the part of the Executive. Your Committee is of the view that supplementary and excess expenditure budgets are merely being used to finance activities over and above what Parliament approves. This is tantamount to taking away some powers of Parliament by the Executive in the approval of public expenditure.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is concerned that there is, generally, lack of transparency in the disbursement of funds by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. It is aware that there is no information given to the public on how much is disbursed to the ministries, provinces and spending agencies. Your Committee urges the ministry to display this information for the public through the Internet and public notice boards in respective local areas.

Mr Speaker, regarding the Eurozone debt crisis, your Committee is concerned that, while it is likely that the support to the Budget by the EU might decline, the Government does not seem to provide measures that will increase domestic resource mobilisation. To the contrary, the Government has continued with generous tax incentives to the mines and other tax exemptions to multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs). Your Committee is of the view that while such incentives may promote investment, in the short to medium term, their long-term economic effectiveness might be limited, as they tend to dampen tax efforts. More often than not, these measures may not promote the creation of jobs, backward and forward linkages and skills transfer. Moreover, in Zambia, the sectors in which foreign capital is mainly invested, such as mining, are highly mechanised, thus creating fewer jobs. Limited forward and backward linkages and skills transfer may be created as foreign investors keep outsourcing labour and capital from abroad, thereby creating limited impact on the local economy. In view of the above, your Committee strongly urges the Government to review various tax incentives granted to multi-national companies, including those earmarked for the MFEZs.

In conclusion, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for the guidance rendered during the session. Your Committee is also grateful to the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation and input in its deliberations.  Lastly, I also extend your Committee’s appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to it during the session. 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Matafwali: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion, which has been ably moved by the Chairperson of your Committee, I wish to highlight issues relating to the likely impact of the Euro-Zone debt crisis on the EU’s budgetary support to Zambia. Your Committee notes that, in 2009, your Committee on Economic Affairs considered the topic on the impact of the global financial crisis on Zambia’s economy and, this year, your Committee on Estimates is considering the impact of the Euro-Zone debt crisis on budgetary support to Zambia. 

Sir, your Committee is also aware that the sharp rise in oil prices and the slump in copper prices in the 1970s had adverse effects on Zambia’s economy. Given the foregoing, it is likely that Zambia will continue to suffer adverse effects from these external economic shocks as long as it continues to be a mono economy. For us to safeguard the economy from future external shocks, your Committee urges the Government to be more proactive by coming up with a lasting solution of safeguarding the economy from such adverse external factors. The solution should be a cocktail of measures, which should include, but not limited to, diversification of the economy from copper production to other sectors such as agriculture and tourism, stimulation of local demand and promotion of value addition. 

Mr Speaker, through diversification, the country will depend on other sectors for revenues once the demand for commodity products such as copper declines. Furthermore, the stimulation of local demand will ensure a continued market for Zambia’s products in the midst of reduced international consumption while value addition will increase export revenue and create local employment. 

Sir, your Committee observes that the Eurozone debt crisis might have adverse effects on budgetary support to Zambia. This situation will be compounded by a narrow domestic revenue base and poor tax structure. 

Mr Speaker, while your Committee appreciates that the 2012 Budget projected 77 per cent of the Budget to come from domestic revenues, it is concerned that this does not measure favaourably with other countries in the region, like Kenya, whose domestic resources account for 90 per cent of the national budget. 

Sir, your Committee is further concerned that the informal sector, which has the potential to contribute favaourably to broadening the tax base, continues to be excluded from the tax net while the big multinational companies such as mining companies, continue to enjoy generous incentives, thereby contributing less revenue to the Treasury. In this regard, your Committee strongly urges the Government to seriously explore ways of broadening and deepening the tax base such as capturing the informal sector into the tax net. Your Committee also urges the Government to overhaul the tax system to make it simple, equitable, effective and progressive. Furthermore, the Government should, as a matter of urgency, review the incentives given to multinational companies and be on guard against such activities as tax evasion and transfer pricing.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also notes that domestic resource mobilisation in Zambia has been hampered, in part, by inadequate capacity by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). This came to light when your Committee visited various border points in April this year. Arising from this, your Committee recommends that staffing levels and funding to the authority and, particularly, to revenue collection points such as Kazungula and Katimamulilo, should be scaled up.

Sir, your Committee also notes that local authorities are a major source of revenue and that they are better placed to collect taxes such as those from the informal sector than the central Government. In this regard, the Government should speed up the process of fiscal decentralisation to empower local authorities to collect tax beyond the levies they are currently collecting.

In conclusion, I wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing us to serve on this important Committee, which oversees the implementation of the National Budget. I also thank you for allowing your Committee to review the Budget process in Zambia and study the likely impact of the Euro-Zone debt crisis on budgetary support to Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the mover and seconder of this Report of the Committee on Estimates for sincerely bringing out what we already know. There are lapses in the entire budget process right from its formulation to the auditing part.

Mr Speaker, I would like to begin by agreeing with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who is very fond of indicating that whatever can done to superintend over public affairs, must be done, as long as it is within our reach. I would like to begin my contribution by indicating that from time immemorial, it has appeared as if participation in the budget formulation process is a preserve of, by and large, the Executive wing of the Government in this country. As such, it is possible that the link could be missed between what those in Government are thinking and the aspirations and interests of the people whom it is supposed to serve. The budgeting process lacks inclusiveness. This is an issue which needs to be addressed very carefully.

Mr Speaker, in the first and second republics, this country had development plans which ran intermittently for five years. At a certain point, this trend disappeared. We, then, were basically using the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) as a planning tool for our expenditure. At this stage, it may be wise for me to thank the administration of the late President Levy Mwanawasa which brought back the use of development plans. Under the leadership of late President Mwanawasa, the country went further and managed to put in place a clear vision for the country. Hence, the Vision 2030, the national development plans and MTEF upon which subsequent annual budgets were based. I think these should remain as yardsticks for our expenditure. This way, we will manage to get to where our citizens truly deserve. Our budgets should be futuristic and must fit in the MTEF. It is true that every year, successive hon. Ministers of Finance and National Planning have presented supplementary budgets to the House for approval. I am sure that even the one sitting here will do the same towards the end of the year. Whenever supplementary budgets are presented to the House, my experience is that we, as Parliament, although we are not permitted to debate ourselves, have become rubber stamps of whatever the Executive wants to do.

Mr Speaker, everything which is brought to this House has a predetermined course. That also includes the Yellow Book. We, the people who are charged with the responsibility of approving the Budget and determining what the people really deserve, are excluded in the process. I think that it is important that a legal framework be created to make sure that institutions that loosely exist are tightened. One can argue that there are district development co-ordinating committees (DDCCs) and the provincial development co-ordinating committees (PDCCs) which promote the requirements of our citizens in the budget formulation process. It is true that for as long as these committees do not have a legal framework backing their existence, they will always miss the opportunity of being real representatives of the people. As things are at present, the only true representatives of the people are the hon. Members on your right hand side and my colleagues on the left hand side. For as long as we are going to miss the link that can connect us to the people, we will be bringing budgets to this House that are done by technocrats who have no clue whatsoever what my uncle in Chimwaikila requires.

Mr Speaker, in this afternoon’s debate, the hon. Minister of Health indicated that the people of Chimwaikila are nomadic. That is not true. I come from there. It is a place in Chief Mwanachingwala’s area. For as long as the true representatives of the people of Chimwaikila, Mbalanganda and Hankampika are not involved in this budgeting process, this House will keep passing budgets for the elite. These are budgets which are designed by fellows who are sitting in air-conditioned offices at the ministry. It is such budgets which are passed by this House. We pass such budgets because we are rubber stamps. I think the situation needs to change. Hon. Members of Parliament who actually pass the Appropriation Bill must be involved at every stage. This situation can be improved by telling the people in the DDCC and PDCC to bring on board, at every stage, councillors and hon. Members of Parliament before any documents are sent by them to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. All this should happen before the budget finally comes here for approval. This way, we will probably shorten the time required to approve the Budget. As the Chairperson of your Committee indicated, as things are at present, we need more time to look at the Yellow book in order to do a thorough job. {mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker, for many years, we have been operating with activity-based budgets. I would like to pose a challenge to the Executive. Do they follow the dictates of these budgets? I know that this is a fairly new Executive. However, I still think that the first cut is the deepest. This Executive needs to demonstrate its commitment to financial discipline by comparing its expenditure against the Budget which we approved in this House. Every year, in this country, we get the Auditor-General’s reports which show the glaring and ugly misappropriation of funds. However, it is still just business as usual for us despite the report showing us that money went missing or that an engineer signed a certificate of completion for a bridge whose construction was incomplete. Afterwards, we say that we are the representatives of the people, while we sit in Parliament doing nothing. The onus is on the Executive to try and appreciate my few comments. They need to change their style of doing things.

Mr Speaker, in the activity-based budgeting system, we have seen dysfunctions which are as a result of over-commitment on the part of the people in the driving seat who are the politicians. I can give you a few examples. The creation of new provinces such as Muchinga and new districts are a very well-meant gesture. However, that should have been contained in the MTEF. You do not simply wake and say: I have made Zimba a district just because you are facing the east. Any action comes with a cost. If the cost of a certain activity is not contained in the Yellow book, then we are bound to hear the usual song of contingency funds. How big is the contingency funding? When we were passing the current Budget, Hon. Mwiimbu, I think, raised a very important question regarding the funding of the technical committee which had been constituted to work on our Constitution. Hon. Mwiimbu wanted to be shown which item in the Yellow Book was associated with the expenditure of this committee. When Hon. Mwiimbu asked the Executive to include the expenditure for the Technical Committee on the Draft Constitution in the Yellow book, they refused and said that they would get the money to fund its activities from the contingency funds. That is not the way public affairs should be conducted. In Tonga we would call that way of doing things as hilatondwa, meaning it is a taboo to do things that way. You do not simply wake up to say this and that. The decent thing that should have happened was for the Executive to admit that the failure to budget for the Constitution-making process was an oversight on their part. They should have then have said that they were going to come up with a budget for the Constitution-making process. It is also true that the Constitution-making process had a time line as dictated by the people responsible for it which included the Head of State. We now know that the Constitution-making process will exceed the time that was originally set. It will take longer than was initially planned. 

Where will the money come from for this process which will take longer than had been planned? It will come from the supplementary expenditure that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is going to bring to this House for approval probably after the money has already been spent. They will come here fully aware that we are going to rubber-stamp their supplementary expenditure. We will just come here and say, ‘hear, hear’ and then pass the supplementary budget. In an ideal world, that is not the way things ought to be.

Sir, I now want to touch on an issue related to the Eurozone crisis. In his Budget Speech, Hon. Chikwanda, my uncle, indicated that we were going to get a US$500 million Eurobond. It is one of the external resources of our budget. Two weeks later, Hon. Chenda informed this House that the Eurobond had been increased to US$700 million. I would like to know whether the Executive has received that money yet. I need an answer. 

Mr Speaker, if they have received that money in the midst of this Eurozone crisis, what has been the cost of this bond? Have dynamics changed? Does this House not deserve to know what the ramifications of the Eurozone crisis have been on this Eurobond, that is the money that we are going to borrow? I think what I am asking them to do is to practice accountability.

Sir, having already dealt with the issue of supplementary budgeting, I now want to talk about the solutions to our having more funds in our Treasury, some of which could have been talked about by the seconder of the Motion. It is very true and succinctly so, that when the PF Government was campaigning, they talked a lot about windfall tax. They discussed it so vehemently at every meeting. They kept saying that they would introduce windfall tax. 

   Mr Speaker, we do not even know the cost of this Eurobond which, maybe, we have already received. We are  doing all this when wealth is sitting right there in Nkana. Chief Nkana only has a pit next to his palace instead of wealth. The PF won the elections based on that fundamental promise.

Mr Speaker, I read in this report that when the Committee sat, it had witnesses from the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection, Caritas Zambia and the Civil Society for Poverty Reduction. They all indicated that the tax regime requires to be improved. The seconder of this Motion also talked about this issue. So, what is wrong with us collectively as a people? Is it because of arrogance of numbers?

Sir, we could bring a Motion here to re-introduce windfall tax. However, they will defeat us because they have borrowed hon. Members from the Opposition. If things continue happening that way, the country will just keep moving on auto-pilot. For things to get better, we need to be listening to one another. For goodness’ sake, the people who have come to invest in this country are not our relatives. There is no reason you cannot be good to your people, but choose to be good to investors. 

Mr Speaker, my hon. Uncle, the Minister of Finance and National Planning, at a platform outside this place, indicated that those who were advocating for windfall tax had something wrong with their heads.


Mr Nkombo: My dear uncle said that.

Now, does that indicate that at the time of the campaigns, they were all lunatics?


Mr Nkombo: Is that what it entails? That was the core message that the PF Government had. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Please accept these comments because I am just delving into some very short history. 

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Iwe!

Mr Nkombo: The short history is simply that they actually made a promise to the whole country that they were going to introduce windfall tax. After they came into power, the first thing we saw was a step in the right direction. They changed the variable mineral royalty tax from 3 per cent to 6 per cent …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Government Member: Point of order!

Mr Speaker: Are you the Speaker?


Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central who is debating in order to insinuate that the country is on auto-pilot when, actually, it is well under control, under the leadership of His Excellency the President Mr Michael Sata? I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Quite frankly, unless I am not following the hon. Member sufficiently closely, I did not gather that insinuation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Again, I would like to remind the hon. Members not to use points of order as a means of debating. We have sufficient time to debate this Motion. Everybody will be given an opportunity to speak. So, let us not be anxious about what we are hearing. Unfortunately, that is the nature of freedom of expression. Certain things may not be palatable, but we still have to lend them an ear.

Could the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central continue, please.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am indebted to you for that very wise ruling.

Sir, I will not lose the thread of thought which I had before the point of order was raised. I was saying that it was a good thing that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning came here and announced the adjustment of the variable mineral royalty tax from 3 per cent to 6 per cent. It was a good thing that they did that. However, I still wish to state that there is a fundamental difference between that tax and the windfall tax. We do not need to be told about that because we know all that information already. Let me just remind you all that windfall tax only kicks in at a certain price threshold. So, how can people argue that we cannot have windfall tax in place because the copper prices have now plummeted? We can cash in when they go up again one day. If, in the United Kingdom, there is windfall tax on financial institutions like banks, why should we be called lunatics for having it in place for the mines?

The Vice-President interjected.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I have so much respect for His Honour the Vice-President. He is talking to me. I must, maybe, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

No, in fact, you should not bother about His Honour the Vice-President, just address the Speaker.


Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the gentleman was my workmate. We worked in the same office for many years. I am sure he agrees with what I am saying. I just do not know what happens to these people when they are together. I remember saying this even during the last Parliament when the MMD colleagues were on your right. I do not know what goes wrong when they are looking at things collectively. When you engage them one by one, they will agree with you.

Sir, the Leader of Government Business in this House, Dr Scott, must try and see the sense of what I am talking about. There is a fundamental difference between the mineral royalty tax and windfall tax.

Mr Speaker, you can set the stage for the copper price, say at US$5,000 per metric tonne as the threshold for gearing in windfall tax. When the price is below US$ 5,000, windfall tax will not be charged. There will be no disturbances whatsoever.  

Sir, your Committee, in its report, has clearly stated that the tax regime requires to be worked on.  

Mr Speaker, the last thing that I wanted to say is that careless pronouncements, sometimes, put us in serious difficulties and lead to egocentrism. When people are egocentric and do not want to listen to others, the country goes on auto-pilot, again. For the benefit of the hon. Member who raised a point of order, a pilot must actually take the plane high into the sky and then press a button for it to go on auto-pilot.


Mr Nkombo: It does not mean that there is no one in the captain’s cabin or in the first officer’s cabin. Before going to sleep, the pilot first lifts the plane into the skies and then puts it on auto-pilot.


Mr Nkombo: Sir, let me now give an example of where the country has lost money with regard to import and excise duty.

Mr Speaker, not too long ago, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing said that she was banning tujilijilis because Hon. Masebo was making noise that people died in her constituency after consuming them. That is fair …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I do not think it is proper and fair to say that that measure came about as a result of Hon. Masebo’s noise. I think it is demeaning a fellow Parliamentarian to characterise an important event in that fashion.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I withdraw that statement with an apology to her. In fact, I even thought that she was in the House.

Mr Speaker, all I am saying is that not too long ago, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing decided to sign a SI to ban certain alcoholic beverages from coming into this country. It is true that there is a moral side of doing such things. Nobody can argue with that. Hon. Chikwanda can attest to the fact that alcohol importation has been contributing substantially to the tax revenue in this country. It is reckless to sign SIs which make this country lose out on revenue. Such SIs will not do this country any good. I can demonstrate to you that the tujilijilis, which were banned, are still on the market, but they are just not in sachets. Since they are in accordance with the prescription of the SI, one must ask whether this Government has actually cured the mischief. The answer is, no. Now, a 330 ml bottle of tujilijili is going for K3,500. A sachet is only 60 ml. This means that, in this country, people will continue dying because there is nothing that has been achieved. Money has been lost in revenues and that is precisely my point. I think that certain things should be well thought through before any judgment is arrived at and pen is put to paper. If you went to Kitwe, today, you would find that a bottle, which is the size of a Mosi bottle, contains 43 per cent of alcohol and is being sold for ‘pin’. This is more than John Walker Black Whiskey. What does that mean? 

Hon. UPND Member: 2 ‘pin’!

Mr Nkombo: You said 2 ‘pin’? I demonstrated this bottle …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, use the appropriate denomination of currency. 


Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I mean K2,000. 

Sir, since I was castigated for bringing a chicken to this House, I took the bottle to the hon. Minister of Finance’s office.


Mr Nkombo: I wanted him to see what his Government has created. Since he is a listening man, he told me to wait for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to come and see whether the mischief was cured. I think we need to deal with these fiscal policies collectively. This is because not only the relatives of those in the Government will die as a result of consuming these 330 ml of tujilijili, which is the new found land of the PF Government, but also our relatives.  

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the chance to debate the Motion on the Floor, for and on behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency. 

Mr Speaker, I also thank the mover and, indeed, the seconder of this Motion for a job well done. I want to begin by referring to page 10 and 11 of your report. There is always a negative part and positive part to every action that one takes. It just depends on whether the benefits outweigh the cost or the disadvantages. Normally, those that embark on big shifts are usually unpopular amongst the people. It is, therefore, my prayer and hope that as I speak, I will be able to appeal to those that make decisions and those that take part in the decision-making. 

Mr Speaker, page 10 of your report says: 

“While statistics on remittances to Zambia were not readily available, it was a fact that a lot of Zambians were living in the Diaspora and remit substantial amounts of financial resources to their relatives.”

Mr Speaker, my concern is that this country has been lamenting for a long time as regards statistics and the way we maintain our data base. This has also contributed to a number of people doubting the economic growth that we portray because if statistics are not available, it means that you cannot calculate either the gross domestic product (GDP), indices or whatever one wants to calculate correctly. So, in as much as we are talking about what happened in 2009, I hope and trust that, as we move forward, my Government will come up with clear indicators and, indeed, measures for us to be able to capture statistics correctly. This way, we can give the Zambian people correct information as regards the growth of the economy, population and, indeed, infrastructure in this country.

Mr Speaker, on page 11 of the report, what caught my eye were the issues of transfer pricing and rampant corruption in revenue collecting institutions. Transfer pricing is merely the price at which goods or services are transferred from one departmental store to another or from one member of a group to another. We all know that tax avoidance in this country is not a criminal offence. It is acceptable for as long as you are able to avoid tax. This is a loophole because we do have multi-national companies that are operating within the country and it is incumbent upon us to ensure that we seal these loopholes. These particular companies transfer goods to this country at exorbitant prices, thereby allocating the profits unfairly. Once the profits are unfairly allocated, it means that even the tax revenues that we get from the corporate tax will be reduced.

Mr Speaker, allow me to quote what Prof. J. Kelly wrote in the Financial Times of 23rd November, 1995, about transfer pricing. He said that a study of 210 multi-national companies was conducted by Ernst and Young. Forty-nine per cent of those companies were found to be facing issues to do with transfer pricing while about 85 per cent were engaged in disputes as regards transfer pricing. He went on to say that transfer pricing is big business because the figures involved are sometimes huge. During the 1992 presidential campaigns in the United States of America (USA), Mr Bill Clinton, then a candidate, said the following:

 “We can raise about US$45 billion in tax revenues from enterprises that are operating in the USA, which are in other countries.”

 Therefore, if countries which are so developed have this particular problem, it means that Zambia, with a very small economy, needs to do something as quickly as possible to find ways and means of sealing that loophole of tax avoidance so that we can, as much as possible, get money out of it.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a procedural point of order. Is the hon. Member in order to quote this Prof. J. Kelly and Mr Bill Clinton without laying the sources of quotations on the Table of the House? I seek your ruling.


Mr Speaker: Order!

 The hon. Member is making a cross reference. He is not necessarily bringing a specific material to the attention of the House or, indeed, that of the Speaker. He is merely making a cross reference in his analysis and it is permissible. 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your protection. 

Sir, I was talking about the danger of transfer pricing. If we do not do something about it, we will continue over burdening the employees who are paying tax. We need to broaden the tax base by sealing the loopholes through which most of these multi-national companies end up allocating their profits unfairly for them to escape remitting the 30 per cent corporate tax.

Mr Speaker, let me come to the issue of rampant corruption in revenue collecting institutions. This has been a song for a long time. Like I stated earlier, we need to take very big steps. The people who are in these institutions are normal human beings like us. Therefore, they require close supervision. If, however, they cannot change their attitude, we need to move and carry out reforms as quickly as possible because the PF Government has very little time within which to ensure that it delivers to the Zambian people. I hope that the next report of your Committee will be clean, in terms of reduction or total removal of corruption from these institutions. 

Mr Speaker, until we get every ngwee into the Government coffers, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will not have money to work on roads in Luwingu District. He will not have money to carry out ministerial duties and Executive functions in this country. 

Sir, the crusade we have embarked on to fight corruption will be severely tough, but we need to ensure that we do it effectively and also that the people involved are not only talked about, but brought to book. We also need to move away from the trend of waiting for somebody to leave office or power to be investigated. Let us do it as they serve so that we show seriousness in the fight against corruption.  

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.  

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate the report of your Committee on Estimates for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly appointed on 28th October, 2011. 

Mr Speaker, I will confine myself to the last paragraph on page 9 of the Estimates Committee’s Report, which is on declining tourism and it reads as follows:

“Given the strong linkages with European markets, the overall negative impact of the Eurozone debt crisis on Zambian tourism would be substantial. The decline in tourism from Europe will result in declining income and tax revenues which could make it difficult for Zambia to maintain the planned levels of public expenditure, including long-term infrastructure investment.”

Mr Speaker, I associate myself with this particular comment by your Committee. 

Mr Speaker, I arrived from Livingstone, where Hon. Simuusa, Hon. Simbyakula and I went to campaign, yesterday evening. 


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the people of Livingstone have resolved to punish the PF Government tomorrow. 


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, they have resolved to punish the PF for the injuries that have been occasioned on their incomes, businesses and investments. 

Mr Speaker, …

Mr Kapeya: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, on several occasions, you have ruled and guided that points of order should be related to the topic before the House. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central in order to start campaigning in here when the campaigns are already over? I need your serious ruling. 

Mr Speaker: I know that this is a very topical issue. It will come to pass tomorrow. 


Mr Speaker: Order!

However, before us, we have a very specific item, which is the report. I also appreciate that the hon. Member for Monze Central had just made his way from Livingstone for very specific business. Nevertheless, I would urge that, as far as possible, we confine ourselves to the issue before us. 

The hon. Member for Monze Central has singled out a paragraph in this particular report and I was looking forward to a discourse around this particular paragraph. 


Mr Speaker: However, …


Mr Speaker: … I have difficulty drawing a nexus between that punishment and the contents of this paragraph. Therefore, I would urge the hon. Member to discuss tourism because I know that is what he would like to do. So, please, let us discuss tourism.  

The hon. Member may proceed. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as I interrogate this particular paragraph, I would like to bring to the attention of the PF Government the concerns of the tourism sector and the general public in Livingstone. 

Mr Speaker, from the time the PF Government made the decision to move the provincial capital of the Southern Province from Livingstone to Choma, without corresponding measures to mitigate the effects of that movement, tourism in Livingstone has suffered. It has plummeted. 


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, you have to note that the majority of the people in Livingstone who have invested in small lodges and built houses have been relying on domestic tourism.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Domestic tourism in Livingstone is going to suffer and has suffered as a result of the decision of the Government on your right side, Sir.  

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the people of Livingstone have told me that I should mention here that as a result of that decision to move all the provincial headquarters of various institutions from Livingstone, the income from rentals for those poor civil servants and genuine investors will be affected. Those who built houses and small lodges and have been surviving on the income from rentals, will be affected. Furthermore, those visiting and looking for services from the provincial headquarters of various Government institutions will also be affected. 

Hon. UPND Member: And seminars and workshops.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: It, therefore, means that domestic tourism, …

Mr Simuusa: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central, Mr Jack Mwiimbu, in order, to debate in that manner without mentioning that the people who come from Choma, like myself, are actually benefiting from the decision made by the Government to make Choma a provincial capital?


Mr Speaker: I do not think we should use points of order to debate or contradict each other.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes! Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I do not think that is a function of points of order.

I mentioned earlier on in the day that points of order are supposed to govern the mode of debate. If you have a different viewpoint from what the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central is postulating, you can patiently wait for your turn or the right’s turn, generally, to respond to the issues.

However, I still want to reiterate my concern that there is a risk of departing from our business. I know we normally provide for latitude for examples, but let us not use this platform and occasion to try and link them to certain exciting events which are about to happen in some parts of the country.


Mr Speaker: Let us honour our time here. I can discern this very easily. I am part of this society.


Mr Speaker: I am very slow to curtail debate. However, if I am forced to, I may have to do that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I can see where this is leading to.


Mr Speaker: Let us discuss the report of the Committee on Estimates. It has analysed issues and made recommendations. Do you agree with it, do you support it or do you want to improve this in any way, irrespective of where you were this weekend or last weekend? I think that is what we should be looking at. The outcomes will pass tomorrow. Let us leave that to posterity.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Sir, the people of Choma are extremely excited that there will be a very high inflow of tourism in Choma as a result of moving the provincial capital from Livingstone to Choma. We are all happy …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … that the capital has been moved to Choma. However, the Government did not think through this process. It should have provided corresponding measures to ensure that once the capital is moved, industries are provided for in Livingstone to sustain the tourism sector.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: However this was not done. As a result, there is a decline in tourism activities in Livingstone, as per the report of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, with regard to lodges in Livingstone, as the situation is obtaining now, last week, the occupant’s rate of the lodges was almost 99 per cent but, from tomorrow, it will plummet. Some of the lodges will have no occupants as a result of the decision our colleagues took, without providing corresponding measures to ensure that tourism in Livingstone is sustained.

Sir, the President of the Republic of Zambia, while in Livingstone, …

Mr Mubukwanu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Speaker, I have never stood on a point of order in this House. Is the hon. Member who is debating in order to misinform the nation that this Government has moved the tourism sector from Livingstone to Choma, when tourism activities have increased in that city? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker: Again, it is one of those points of order that you want to use as an avenue for debate. Let the hon. Member complete his debate. If the representations he is making before this House are lopsided, incorrect or are a misrepresentation of facts, although we are all urged, in any event, to support our debates with facts, you will have an opportunity to respond. I think it is common knowledge that what has moved is the provincial capital. That is what has moved. I do not think we should debate that obvious point. Whether or not this has affected tourism, let the hon. Member for Monze Central demonstrate that. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: That is his liberty.


Mr Speaker: I am sure the people of Livingstone are listening to these debates.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Sir, the President of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, is on record of having indicated that we are not ready to host the United Nations Tourism Conference in Livingstone and that it will not benefit Zambia, but will only benefit Zimbabwe because there is no infrastructure to support tourism in Livingstone.

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Do you want to contradict the President?

The point I am making, Mr Speaker, is that, in theory, we pronounced Livingstone as a tourism capital, but have not put any corresponding measures in place to ensure that Livingstone lives by that name. We have not done that. The President …

Mr Hamududu: The roads are very bad!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and my dear Vice-President is on record of having condemned the infrastructure in Livingstone. He was even wondering how we expect tourists to come to Livingstone where there is such squalor and poor infrastructure that was left by the MMD. He ended up donating twenty toilets to Linda Compound.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, no one is against the movement of the provincial capital but, please, provide the necessary infrastructure and companies that will support the tourism sector in Livingstone. If we do not do that, all the Government buildings in Livingstone will be white elephants. I do not think any sane tourist would want to go to a ghost town, nobody. 


Mr Mwiimbu: If I did not want to advise you I would have kept quiet, …

Mr Kambwili: Aah!


Mr Mwiimbu: … but I am advising you to do something for the people of Livingstone so that tourism booms. It is not too late. Do not just kneel …


Mr Mwiimbu: … before the people because they will not appreciate it. Let us do something more for the people of Livingstone.

With these very few words, …


Mr Mwiimbu: … I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to contribute to debate on the report produced by your Committee on Estimates. In supporting your Committee’s report, I would like to focus on page 13 paragraph (c) titled “Inadequate Time for Consideration of the Budget”.

Sir, issues of tourism have been adequately dealt with by Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, Member of Parliament for Monze Central, and I have a feeling that His Honour the Vice-President listened very attentively.

Mr Speaker, on this issue, I note that, indeed, your Committee observed that when the Budget is presented to Parliament, the time required by Parliament to study and approve it is limited.

Sir, that is true, but I also want to state a point which I supported earlier on the same paragraph, proposing the enhancement of the Budget process by the establishment of an independent Budget Office in Parliament. This is very cardinal.

Mr Speaker, I note that when this Budget is presented to us, it is interrogated and interpreted by a diverse group of hon. Members of Parliament with diverse expertise but, surely, considering the time limitation, I wonder whether we do justice to the Budget process in terms of scrutinising that which will collectively contribute to the overall development of our country.

Sir, what I have noticed, over the years, has been that, and perhaps rightly so, each one of us is an hon. Member of Parliament representing people from certain part of Zambia. We want a road, a police post and a health post and are all clamouring to have that development taken to our constituencies at once.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is at pains as to which ones to factor into the Budget. Being a seasoned politician, he sees that, perhaps, he should allocate a little to each of these hon. Members of Parliament in their constituencies, but this has less impact.

Sir, I can neither blame the hon. Members of Parliament nor the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I have brought up this point to agree with your Committee’s report that if we had a Parliamentary Budget Office that is staffed by experts to look at our Vision 2030, our development plan and the sector strategies, they would then advise Parliamentarians where to focus on so that the nation moves collectively rather than having this fragmentation.

Mr Speaker, one area would say it has no school and we take a school there with no relation to the health facilities and so on and so forth. I, therefore, support your Committee’s report that it is high time that, perhaps, we went beyond just having this office. It should be anchored in the Parliamentary Service Commission. I am hoping that as we consider our Constitution, the establishment of the Parliamentary Service Commission that will be buttressed by the Parliamentary Budget Office to look at budgets not only for Parliament but nationally, would be something that all parliamentarians will support.

Sir, if that were to happen, then we can see co-ordinated progressive development in the whole of Zambia. At the moment, this is why we hear of stories of, “you left this when you were in Government and we are now doing it.”

Of course, it is not possible to complete all developmental projects in five years. Even for the PF Government, it will not be possible for it to complete all the developmental projects in five or ten years. That depends on many factors such as the performance of the economy and the needs of the people as we develop.

Sir, it is for this important reason that we need experts to assist us analyse the National Budget.

Mr Speaker, I wanted to contribute only on those two important points which, I think, add value to our debate.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I would like to indicate, from the outset, that we have no issues from this side on the report. Anything that improves the structures of our Government and the institutional mechanism intended to make our operations effective, is welcome.

Sir, in that context, the ideas embodied in this report are welcome and will be taken very seriously because, first and foremost, they are presented in good faith. These ideas are intended to improve the way we govern our country and to try and better our performance in terms of engendering higher levels of economic development, because only that can wipe out the undesirable and unacceptable poverty levels in our country.

Mr Speaker, let me just deal with some of the specifics raised by the hon. Members which arise from the report. With regard to the issue of what is called the Eurozone crisis, of course, there is a crisis in the Eurozone, but I am sure that the Europeans have enough experience and resolve to try and put those problems behind them.

Sir, it will take a bit of time to do that because some of the economies are quite battered. How it affects Zambia is just a question of what we do. Our exports and aid expectations can be affected by what goes on in other parts of the world.

Mr Speaker, that area of Western Europe, I am saying Western Europe because not all the countries in Western Europe are members of the European Union (EU) and not all the members of the EU are members of the Eurozone. Britain, Sweden and Denmark are members of the EU, but are not in the Eurozone.

Sir, Western Europe, representing a surface area of, perhaps, just equivalent to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and with only 6 per cent of the world population, accounts for more than 30 per cent of the world trade. So, there is no way there can be economic doldrums or miseries in that part of the world without the rest of the world being affected.

Mr Speaker, the EU now has a GDP which is far in excess of the USA, perhaps twice the GDP of China. Small as it is, it has an impact on the world, but how we get affected by it, is another matter.

Sir, not all the countries in the Eurozone extend assistance to Zambia. Some of the countries like Germany have, in fact, increased their outlay of assistance to Zambia. We must thank the people of Germany for their generosity because, although the area in which they are a primary contributor to the economy, the Eurozone, is going under some stress, they are still able to marshal large amounts of aid to countries like Zambia.

Mr Speaker, another country which is a member of the EU, but not in the Eurozone is Britain which has tremendously increased its aid to Zambia. In fact, for planning purposes, Britain has allocated us a three-year programme of assistance worth about ₤235 million, which is quite generous because there is a recession in the United Kingdom (UK). Therefore, some of the budgetary support to our country has not been reduced because of the difficulties in the Eurozone. However, we must take measures to try and reduce the impact of adversities in other parts of the world on our economy. We can only do that by growing and diversifying our economy. I am very happy that Kenya was cited as an example of a country that relies very largely on its domestic resources. This is because the structure of its economy is different from ours. Kenyans rely on tea and coffee and has a bigger economy than us who rely on the mineral sector. So, we have to put more efforts in supporting Hon. Chenda in his very bold efforts to get the agricultural sector going. Then, our situation will be different. 

Sir, we have a more favourable climate and better soil conditions. One third of Kenya is a desert and it is about 250,000 km2 smaller than Zambia. The country also has a population three or four times bigger than ours. So, we do not take advantage of our favourable situation because Zambia has a serious cultural trap. The work ethic here leaves much to be desired. Regime after regime, we have invested in irresponsibility …


Mr Chikwanda: … because we urge our people to claim their rights and privileges, but they are unmindful of their obligations and responsibilities. This is the cultural trap that we have and it is very much evident in the debates in this House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: We are not going to strengthen the tax base without growing the economy. Some of these glamorous, or is it unglamorous ideas of extending the tax net by taxing or formalising the informal sector also have to take into account the cost benefit. The cost of taxing people in the informal sector might far exceed the potential benefits. Taxation is a system that has an internal logic, like every other system. The internal logic of public finance is that every tax measure must, at end of the day, bring in more than it will cost to administer. That is why we leave people in the informal sector to operate without taxation and we catch them up through indirect taxes. The people who operate in the informal sector are also very substantial buyers. Sometimes, the problem of quantification will definitely render it impossible for us to tax people in the informal sector. Some of the earnings in the sector are very difficult to quantify, for example, the earnings that may have their origins in the commercial passion services. It is not always easy to quantify such earnings.


Mr Chikwanda: On the mines, the special theme of my distinguished relative, Hon. Gary Nkombo, who got carried away by his rhetoric …


Mr Chikwanda: … and, given his immense intellectual capacity, some of the arguments were a distinct disservice to himself. I felt very bad as an uncle …


Mr Chikwanda: … because I have been very proud of one of our …

Mr Speaker: You should have stopped him.


Mr Chikwanda: No, Sir, because, even when he is being mischievous and slightly embellishing the truth, it is quite interesting because you can never get tired of listening to him as he debates so eloquently and 99 per cent of the time very sensibly.


Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, so many things have been attributed to me about the windfall tax, including calling people lunatics because one newspaper wrote that. I was speaking at a certain forum and I was saying that, in any situation, there are moderates, sort of radicals, fundamentalists …

Hon. UPND Member: Lunatics.

Mr Chikwanda: No, I did not use the word ‘lunatics’.


Mr Chikwanda: I said some people border on lunatic fringes, which is not the same as saying they are lunatics. There are lunatic fringes and lunatics, but The Post just cut out the word ‘fringes’. That is how some newspapers decide to distort facts and, for days, people kept hammering on me.


Mr Chikwanda: I am a very polite and civilised person and I never take issues with views that are different from mine. I have respect for every view. I respect people because it is part of my cultural upbringing. I really never speak uncharitably about other people and their views, even if I totally disagree with what they say. So, let us not go to extremes. 

Sir, the tax arrangements we have, in terms of the mines, are quite adequate, if the mineral prices are trending upwards. What we saw in international commodity prices two weeks ago was very miserable. We saw copper almost breaking the sound barrier of US$7,000 per tonne but, this week, the price has inched up a bit to US$7,700 per tonne. So, a world commodity situation like that is very volatile. When people were demanding to be paid hefty amounts for cotton, its price on the world market had slumped to very undesirable levels. It has now picked up a bit, but had dropped to below 70 US cents a pound. It was hovering around US 69 cents per pound, and that pound is lint. So, when you are paying for cotton, you are going to take that into account because lint, which is sold on the international market, is only one third of the cotton that has seed in it. So, the international commodity situation is a very sensitive area and none of us can speak with accuracy because it is very volatile. 

Mr Speaker, the market forces are not driven by economic fundamentals, that is, things that are empirically ascertained by measuring. They are often driven by sentiments. Two weeks ago, there was this feeling that, maybe, the Eurozone economy would crumble and international commodity prices began to slide downwards. Even the price of oil began to go down, going to as low as US$90 per barrel, in respect of Brent. Brent is the benchmark used for North Sea oils, whereas, on the American side, they use what they call the New York Mercantile Exchange, which has slid to US$80 per barrel, according to the light crude quoted on the New York Mercantile Exchange. However, this week, an upward trend has set in. So, it is very difficult to factor that but, for us, as a country, let us just expand our economy. 

Sir, Hon. Mwiimbu’s concerns about tourism are very well meaning. I think that his concerns appeared bona fide. His style of debating is another matter, …


Mr Chikwanda: … but he was genuinely concerned. In Zambia, the thing that adversely affects tourism, and that is where our economy can grow, is because we are a high-cost economy. Our hotels cost twice what those in the neighbouring countries cost and people can see the same elephants and lions in Botswana, Zimbabwe and other countries. Even our beverages cost higher than in other countries. This country has an adverse culture that does not induce people to buy more. Even the poor people do not worry about the pricing of products and services. This Parliament reduced the duty on imported wines and spirits from 145 per cent to 6 per cent. Do you know what has gone up? The prices of spirits and wines have increased twice and people have not raised an issue over this. The press writes about all sorts of mundane things, but they are never bothered to write about things that affect the livelihood of our people. No one from the press has gone to research and see what is happening in the various sectors. Why is it that when the Government reduces tax on imported wines and spirits from 145 per cent to 6 per cent, prices go up? In this country, when measures are taken to protect the economy, people rise against the Government.


Mr Chikwanda: There are people now, for instance, who are saying that all domestic transactions must be done in the Zambian legal tender, and the people who are up in arms are Zambians of repute. They are now fighting the battle for the small expatriate community whose reason for being in Zambia is simply that Zambia is the only country in the Southern African Sub-continent that has no foreign exchange controls. There are other countries, like Botswana, which has more than US$12 billion of foreign exchange, and South Africa, which have very primitive and rigorous exchange controls. However, in Zambia, when the Government wants to regularise or make this country look normal like other countries and start paying bills in the local currency, people rise up in arms. When it comes to external transactions, of course, you cannot quote in kwacha when importing things from India, Israel, China, England or the USA. Nobody is outlawing dealing in foreign currency where you have to. We have just said that all transactions in this country must be done in kwacha. Even the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) has come up in arms against this. Of course, when I read the letter from the President of LAZ, it was bona fide and they have raised a few questions of legality and constitutionality. Nevertheless, there are some excesses where they have said that the Bank of Zambia has absolutely no authority to make people do their businesses in the local currency. So, we will be discussing with them and benefit from their wise reflections. However, this is the nature of people in this country. Sometimes, we champion causes that are not of benefit to the starving people and ourselves, but others. We begin to play to the gallery of those people and define good names. For some Zambians, just getting accolades from these people, especially from some of those with special pigmentation, …


Mr Chikwanda: … is something that people will fight for. Sometimes, people do not even realise that getting praise is another insidious form of corruption.


Mr Chikwanda: So, let me not lengthen the case and emulate my nephew, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, by spoiling one’s case through some over-embellished versions.


Mr Chikwanda: I just want to thank the House for their constructive debate on the report and assure them that all their concerns will be taken into account. Hon. Members of the House from both sides are enjoined to make submissions to the Government and, of course, we debate in the public view because that is our primary duty. We are custodians of public law. For reasons of transparency, we do not want to just discuss these issues in privacy, but bring them up and use other channels open to try and put your ideas across. There are moments when all of us must be able to rise beyond partisan considerations. Zambia is our country. We have political parties just for convenience’s sake or competition of ideas. People elect a party into the Government, which they think, for that moment, has good ideas. It is up to the party elected, like we have been elected for the next five years, to justify the confidence the people of Zambia reposed in us. At no time should we make Zambians feel that they misplaced their trust and confidence. So, we should all put our country, Zambia, first on the agenda. At that point, the question of labels and other things just become a nullity.

Mr Speaker, with these remarks – I do not know whether to describe them as few or many – I thank all hon. Members for their attention and very good submissions.

Thank you, Sir.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will be brief. I thank all those who contributed to the debate on this Motion. It has been very rich and worth listening to. We had submissions from the hon. Members for Mazabuka Central, Lupososhi, Monze Central and Mumbwa and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, whose response was very rich and absorbing. You just cannot stop listening to him. 

I am very happy, Mr Speaker, that we have got assurances, on the Floor of this House, that progress will be made in the reforms on the budgetary legal framework and the establishment of the Parliamentary Budget Office. I hope, in the future, there will be milestones stipulated so that visible progress will be made within good time. 

As for the hon. Members of the Committee on Estimates, I thank them for giving me the privilege to chair this wonderful Committee. I have enjoyed the teamwork and unity of purpose. How I wish that the two can be applied at the national level. I think we can rise above these artificial divides and achieve unity, teamwork and make much more progress for the betterment of our people.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.


The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1804 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 5th July, 2012.