Thursday, 23^rd March, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we can go straight to matters of urgent public importance, keeping in mind the guide. Let us not bring constituency-based issues. I think we were properly guided. Most of the constituency-based issues are supposed to fall under urgent questions. Moreover, if there is an urgent situation in your constituency, surely, we cannot wait for a ministerial statement.

Next week Friday will be our last day. So, please, let us use the avenues properly so that we are attended to as soon as possible.

We will start with the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON MR NKANDU, THE HON. MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT AND ARTS, ON UNEMPLOYED YOUTHS INCREASING THE CRIME RATE

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central, through me, the opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, first, I wish our football team all the best as it is playing today against Isoka and –

Laughter

Hon. Members: Isoka?

Mr J. E. Banda: Lesotho!

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Also, on behalf of the good people of Petauke Central, let me not forget to wish myself a Happy Birthday. Happy Birthday to Hon. J. J. Banda.

Laughter 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, the matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Madam Speaker, in Petauke Central, we woke up on the rude of shock.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: In English, we say “rude shock”.

Madam Speaker, it is not only Petauke Central affected. Yesterday, Kamwala was affected. The Copperbelt was affected. Solwezi was affected. The youths in our country, because of youth unemployment among those who are not educated, the crime rate is going high.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr J. E. Banda: You are saying “Ah!” Wait until your house is robbed. That is when you are going to understand.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, you are addressing that matter to me and not to the other hon. Members because they are not supposed to debate while seated. So, can you please just focus on your matter of urgent public importance and address it to me.

You can proceed.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance. I am sure they have –

Laughter

Hon. Members: It is Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: Oh, Madam Speaker. Sorry. The problem is that you are disturbing me but you have your constituencies.

Madam Speaker, in Petauke Central, some houses were robbed by the so-called junks. If you are coming from work at night, it is no longer safe in all urban areas in our country to move at night. Yesterday, in Kamwala, you can imagine, robbers wanted to rob businessmen and amongst those robbers was a police officer by the name of Kennedy Mwange from the Central Province, Kabwe in particular under Central Division - Operation. You can imagine that if a civil servant who is even getting a salary is joining these criminals, what about those youths who do not have jobs? What are they going to do?

Madam Speaker, in our country right now, we are no longer safe when moving at night. Even when it comes to sleeping, you need to sleep with a panga on the pillow because any time you can be robbed. We are no longer safe and we can lose lives any time.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts in order to not address –

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: No, no. It is the youths. Is the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts in order not to address the unemployment of those youths who are not educated? Once they have something to do, the country will be at peace. There will be no people called junks. Right now, they are called junks because they do not have jobs.

Mr Mposha: On a point order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, because of that, we are even scared to move at night. I seek your indulgence. I know that some hon. Members are raising points of order –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, you are now debating. We have heard the matter. Thank you.

Mr Nanjuwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nanjuwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a point of order. As you are aware, I do not rise on points of order anyhow. My point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65, and it is directed at the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana.

Madam Speaker, here in the newspaper which I am going to lay on the Table, it is reported that the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana, Mr B. Mpundu, is reported to have said that the sugilite which was intercepted in the Central Province has vanished. This asset has been in the Central Province from the time it was intercepted. It has been kept in the Central Province.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we give him chance.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Nkana, can we please be attentive.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Mr Nanjuwa: Is it you to direct what is supposed to be done?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we be orderly? I have just given an opportunity to the hon. Minister for the Central Province to raise his point of order, but I am receiving interjections even before I can hear what he wants to talk about. So, can we please listen and then I am going to make a ruling.

The hon. Minister for the Central Province may continue.

Mr Nanjuwa: Madam Speaker, we have been receiving reports that there are many people who have been agitating to take away this alleged stolen item of the Government. This product has been under the custody of the Central Province and the police where it has been kept safely. It has been containerised and kept in the Central Province at the division office.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament has alleged that the sugilite has vanished, and has brought this honourable Government, a majoritarian President and his Government, into disrepute.

Madam Speaker, the current President was elected in an unprecedented way …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nanjuwa: … with a majority vote.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Nanjuwa: Therefore, Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana in order to mislead and alarm the nation to make the people of this country rise against the Government for being irresponsible?

I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Mr Nanjuwa laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, when you raise a point of order, you look at a breach that has been committed during proceedings in this House. The hon. Minister for Central Province will find another way of bringing that matter to the House because it is not a matter of a breach that has been committed in the House as at now.

Thank you.

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

We have to make progress. Hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, is it a point of order on the hon. Member who was on the Floor?

Mr Mposha: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can procced.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. I rise on a point of order in line with Standing Order No. 65 to do with content of speech.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central, in order to mention names of people who do not have the privilege to sit in this House and who, at this moment, are not in a position to defend themselves, thereby abusing his privilege to bring the names of these people into disrepute? We do not know whether this information is true and whether this individual in question was involved in the criminal activities.

Madam Speaker, we know that as a responsible citizen, when you come across a criminal activity, the institution under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security; the police, is open twenty-four hours for you to report the activity.

Madam Speaker, when this hon. Member of Parliament was provincial youth chairman of the Patriotic Front (PF), he was free to go to Lusaka Central Police for various activities. Why did he not report this criminal activity?

Madam Speaker, is he in order –

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, is he in order to scandalise innocent citizens without taking responsible actions to report them to the police?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much for that point of order. According to Standing Order No. 65(2)(f), we shall not make reference to a person who is not able to defend himself or herself in the House. I think that we all know that we are not supposed to debate ourselves. In addition, we are not supposed to mention names of people who cannot come to this House and defend themselves.

The best way the hon. Member for Petauke Central would have brought up the matter was to say “A certain policeman” or something like that, without necessarily mentioning the name. This is because we do not know whether that person he has mentioned is the true person who was caught yesterday or not. He cannot even come to the House to say “No, it was not me.” So, let us avoid bringing in people who cannot defend themselves.

So, the hon. Member for Petauke Central was actually out of order.

Let us make progress. This is time for matters of urgent public importance. Now, we have gone on to make many points of order.

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 202 refers to privileges of hon. Members of Parliament. Standing Order No. 202(4) says:

“A member who alleges that his or her privilege is being, or has been, denied in the House may, as soon as the alleged denial occurs, raise a Point of Order.”

Madam Speaker, I stand to raise a point. I have been hesitant to raise this matter, but I am compelled to do so now. In this House, the Presiding Officer is the only one mandated to run or conduct business or preside over the affairs of this House, including to give an opportunity to any one of us to speak or not to speak.

Madam Speaker, of late, there has been a tendency by your officers in charge of Information Technology (IT) of curtailing hon. Members from speaking before you determine so. They will switch off your microphone before you even direct so. This trend, if not addressed, can put this House in trouble. It is not only that hon. Members of this House are being curtailed by way of the microphones being switched off before you direct, but the other day, during the time of matters of urgent public importance, these microphones were jammed.

Madam Speaker, you are the only one mandated or given the powers to decide who should speak, when, and when to stop. Are your officers in order to begin to usurp your powers?

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Are they in order to usurp your powers, the powers given to you by the Constitution, and begin to dictate who should speak and when they should speak?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, my ruling is: that is an administrative issue. Hon. Member for Nkana, you can come to the Office of the Speaker so that we can sort out that issue in a better way.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

We will make progress. The hon. Member for Nyimba may take the Floor.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, ulya alenjeba ati ulelanda landa –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I think we are becoming unruly. Honestly speaking, hon. Members, like I guided, we are not supposed to debate while seated. Let us avoid running commentaries that are provocative because when one side of the House raises an issue, the other side will react and that reaction will raise the tempers of the hon. Members on the side that raised the issue. In the end, it is a vicious cycle of exchanging words. Let us avoid that, hon. Member for Nkana. This goes to everybody in this House.

The hon. Member for Nyimba may proceed.

MR MENYANI ZULU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NYIMBA, ON THE MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON THE TYPE OF DIESEL THAT INDENI PETROLEUM REFINERY WILL BE CHURNING OUT

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): A matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Energy or the Acting hon. Minister of Energy. However, there is no Acting hon. Minister of Energy in the House, at Her Honour, the Vice-President, who is the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, it is appreciated that Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Ltd has started firing and a good number of people is back at work.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu: I hope that can continue so that people in Ndola can have some decent meals at the end of the day.

Madam Speaker, currently, we are processing diesel at Indeni. My fear is that the Government has not clarified or communicated to the Zambian people the quality of diesel we are producing at Indeni. Currently, all our engines are running on diesel PP50. Indeni used to produce low sulphur diesel. We are managing our trucks and vehicles on low Sulphur diesel at the moment. If the diesel coming from Indeni is not low sulphur, it is going to sabotage different machines. So,where are we going to use this diesel?

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence on this case.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

MR MUTINTA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR ITEZHI-TEZHI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, AND THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MR NKOMBO.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Health and, partly, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, just yesterday, in this House, we were debating a Bill to control substance abuse by young people out there. Sadly, at two learning institutions in Zambia, the National Institute for Public Administration (NIPA) and Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce, two reputable institutions of higher learning, just outside their gates, is an emergence of shebeens. There is an open sale of what resembles beer. When I was investigating this matter, I learnt that there are people who are now selling a concoction of alcoholic drinks at K20. It is a concoction of Bols Brandy, a bit of Kachasu and First Choice whiskey. This concoction is being sold from 0600 hours to 2400 hours right at the door steps of the two learning institutions. The alcohol content of this concoction is unknown. Our children are now at risk at these two learning institutions.

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance because this beer is being sold at undesignated places and we do not know the alcoholic content of this concoction that is being made available to our children who are at these two learning institutions.

MR TWASA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KASENENGWA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON THE OPERATIONS OF THE NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE MANAGEMENT AUTHORITY (NHIMA)

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, the opportunity given to the people of Kasenengwa to rise on a matter of urgent public importance is profoundly appreciated.

Madam Speaker, my matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Health. It refers to the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA). Before I explain this matter, let me read out a few functions of NHIMA, and these are:

1. to ensure that every Zambian has access to good healthcare services;
2. to protect families from the financial hardships of huge medical bills;
3. to limit the rise in the cost of healthcare services;
4. to ensure equitable distribution of healthcare costs among different income groups;
5. to maintain high standards of healthcare delivery services within the scheme;
6. to ensure efficient healthcare services;
7. to improve and harness private sector participation in the provision of healthcare services; and
8. to ensure equitable distribution of health facilities between rural and urban communities.

Madam Speaker, it appears NHIMA has departed from its objectives. Today, when our people go to healthcare providers, they are not attended to as per expectation. Why? The lamentations are that NHIMA either does not pay them or does not pay on time. Now, how are our people going to benefit from what NHIMA has outlined if they are denied services by healthcare providers due to its inefficiency to make payments on time?

Madam Speaker, I have had people who have gone to – A good example is of one who went to a clinic last week and was told, “Your beneficiaries are not appearing on your scheme.” After probing further, the lady was told: “No, actually, I am trying to avoid attending to you because NHIMA does not pay us.” NHIMA says is wants to provide equitable services to every citizen of this country. That person is not the only one. I have heard of many of such cases in Kasenengwa and here in Lusaka. It is countrywide.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health in order to sit quietly while NHIMA, which is collecting money from hard working Zambians every month end, is disadvantaging Zambians in such a manner, and depriving them of the much-needed medical services?

Madam Speaker, I need your serious guidance on this matter.

MR MABETA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KANKOYO, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, MR KAPALA, ON PROVIDING A CLEAR ROADMAP ON INDENI PETROLEUM OIL REFINERY

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. When we were in Ndola, on Monday, with the hon. Minister of Energy, people on the Copperbelt were very happy, and are still celebrating seeing Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Ltd come back to life.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabeta: However, due to the fact that the current stock that Indeni is processing was a dead stock in the Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (TAZAMA) Pipeline, so that it can be cleared off, people are not sure what will happen to it afterwards. Is it going to produce semi processed crude oil or it is going to become a blender of ethanol and …

Mr Kapyanga: But you were there!

Mr Mabeta: … diesel. So, when is the hon. Minister of Energy going to give a clear roadmap on what is going to happen to it after the current crude stock is processed?

Mr Kapyanga: What were you witnessing in Ndola?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think I will start with the hon. Member for Kankoyo who has asked when the hon. Minister of Energy is going to give a clear roadmap.

Hon. Member for Kankoyo, that is not an urgent issue. It is not admissible under this Standing Order.

Mr Kapyanga: Send him out!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is no catastrophe that will come if this matter is not attended to. However, hon. Member, you can raise a question so that people, including all of us here, know. It does not qualify under this Standing Order. It is not an urgent issue. Nobody will die because of not having a roadmap. No catastrophe will be experienced.

This matter does not qualify, hon. Member for Petauke Central, to be a matter of urgent public importance. Kindly find another method of raising this matter so that it can be attended to, as you want to know whether it is the crime that you talked about which is a problem or the unemployment. So, please, just find another way or maybe, put up an ordinary question so that the issue can get the attention of the two hon. Ministers.

The hon. Member for Nyimba mentioned that Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited  has started operating, which is a good thing, but he wants the Government to explain the quality of the diesel that we have since we have the low sulphur diesel and the ordinary one. He wants to know what will happen or what the position is.

Hon. Member, this is not a matter of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 134. You can use another avenue, hon. Member for Nyimba, so that the matter can be attended to by the hon. Minister of Energy.

The hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi raised an issue and directed it at the hon. Minister of Health. The hon. Member mentioned that yesterday, we looked at the Controlled Substances Bill. The hon. Member talked about Shabeens that sell the type of alcohol that is being manufactured by some people, who add a lot of ingredients that are harmful to human beings. Hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi, please, raise an urgent question so that the hon. Minister of Health can address this issue. This matter does not fall under Standing Orders Nos. 134 and 135, since only two places have been mentioned. This problem is not countrywide.

The hon. Member for Kasenengwa complained that the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) has not been very effective. He said that payments are delayed and because of this, many people are not being helped and are denied services from the health facilities.

Is the hon. Minister of Health around?

Hon. Members: No!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, again, this matter is very important and it might not only be happening in your constituency. So please, come up with an urgent question under Standing Order No. 76, so that this matter can be attended to as soon as possible instead of waiting for a ministerial statement, since we are adjourning sine die on Friday next week. However, this issue has to be attended to before Friday, maybe, Tuesday or Wednesday, next week.

I thank you.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

UNUSABLE BRIDGES IN SOME WARDS IN CHINSALI CONSTITUENCY 

217. Mr. Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Vice President:

1. whether the Government is aware that the following bridges in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency have become unusable due to heavy rains thereby making connectivity impossible:

1. Chibesa in Lubwa Ward; and 
2. Misonta in Chambeshi Ward; and

1. what urgent measures are being taken to restore connectivity in the Constituency.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware. The Chibesa Bridge in Lubwa Ward of Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency gets flooded whenever rainfall is above average. Currently, the culverts have become weakened due to soil erosion, causing the bridge to be eroded on both sides.

Madam Speaker, the Misonta Bridge in Chambeshi Ward is in a deplorable state and has been eroded due to heavy rainfall.

Madam Speaker, the following are the immediate measures to restore connectivity in the constituency in both wards. Firstly, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), regional office requested for four boats which the national office has since dispatched to Chinsali for use by the affected wards. In fact, the boats should be arriving now if not already in Chinsali.

Madam Speaker, secondly, the House may wish to note that both bridges are earmarked for rehabilitation by the Road Development Agency (RDA), using funding from the World Bank. The contractor is already in the province and is ready to commence the works once the rainfall reduces.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the feedback and the interventions by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

Madam Speaker, what is the period within which we should expect the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to work on these two bridges that have made it impossible for people to cross?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, maybe, I should mention that the contractor who is on site, which the hon. Member may already know, is M and N Industrial Merchants Limited who is basically already on site. The works on the roads and bridges have been a twelve months period.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President has indicated that the two bridges are sponsored by the World Bank. Would she kindly share with us how much the cost will be to work on the two bridges?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, maybe, I should say that the whole contract which is one comes to K143.8 million, and that includes the roads and bridges.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, regarding the timeframe that I was asking about, I did not mean the timeframe that the substantive contractor will take to work on the road and bridges, which will take a year. The one I am asking about concerns the interventions by DMMU because what is happening currently is that people who are coming from Cheswa are failing to reach the Boma because the bridge is impassable. The other day, a pregnant woman died in Cheswa. When medical officers from the Boma were sent to conduct the procedures before she could be buried, they failed to cross the bridge. So, they had to go back to the Boma. How long will it take to restore connectivity before the contractor commences the substantive works?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the plan on the table is like I have said in the immediate, because we know that there a school and a health facility, and people use one of the bridges to access these facilities, which is busier than the other one. However, we are considering both of them. In fact, I thought the two boats would have arrived yesterday. Two boats have been provided for each bridge so that people continue to move. There will be need for the regional office in Chinsali to carry out assessments on the site, but when there is water, it is not easy to carry out assessments. However, the boats will be in Chinsali today.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you. Let us make progress.

PRESENCE OF GYPSUM AND OTHER MINERALS IN CHAMA DISTRICT

218. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

1. whether the Government is aware of the presence of gypsum and other minerals in Chama District;
2. if so, what measures the Government is taking to prevent illegal mining activities in the district; and
3. what measures the Government is taking to commence approved mining to boost economic activities in the district.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development Geological Survey Department, is aware of the presence of gypsum, and has since documented the presence of gypsum and other minerals in Choma District.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Its Chama, hon. Minister.

Mr Kabuswe: In Chama District. The minerals have been documented through routine exploration work, geological mapping and inspections on existing mining rights.

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the ministry, conducts regular monitoring and inspections on mining rights thereby ensuring that illegal mining activities are brought under control in the district and elsewhere in the country. Additionally, most parts of Chama District are covered by mining rights. As such, it is also the responsibility of the licence holders to secure their mining right areas from illegal mining in line with Section 35 (1) of the Mines and Minerals Development Act No.11of 2015.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has granted several mining rights for various minerals, including gypsum in Chama District, and exploration is at various stages. However, mining will only commence when there is a discovery of minerals amenable for mining, with feasibility studies conducted and finalised. The ministry is also scaling up the monitoring and inspection of mining rights to ensure compliance.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response.

Madam Speaker, indeed, the best gypsum deposits in this country are in Chama. An indigenous company called Chama Minerals Limited has a licence but it has been having operational challenges. Is the Government considering promoting private investments, who can partner with the local company, so that we provide jobs for our local people?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, the Government has been encouraging our local people who may not have the capacity to partner with those who may have the capacity. Foreign or local investors could partner with our people, and the only thing we are emphasising is that it has to be win-win situation so that both the investor and the licence holders benefit. The Government is saying that when you get a licence and you have no capacity, please, do not sell your licence. Make sure you find and partner with people with the capacity, so that we create billionaires right here in Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister stated that the mining companies are given a chance to look for partners to help improve capacity. Now in the spirit of positive discrimination, is the ministry working with other Government ministries, including the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, to try and enhance citizen participation in mining?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Mundubile, for that question.

Madam Speaker, the question has come at the right time. You might have seen me talking to the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. I was finding out whether there have been movement in his ministry because we are collaborating, although there has been a delay here and there, so that the Zambian based co-operatives can now be formalised. Apart from gypsum, we are encouraging people to mine gold and manganese, and we are emphasising positive discrimination, which is the point the hon. Member raised. So, we are actually collaborating to achieve that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister started reading the answer, he mentioned Choma. Can the hon. Minister clarify whether the answer he has given the House is for Choma and not Chama because we might be misleading the House and the people of Chama.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, you even corrected me that it is Chama and not Choma. So, it is actually Chama.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, the gypsum that we are talking about is one of the major components used to produce cement, which is escalating in price, and we thank God that we have such minerals in this country, which can actually support our economy positively.

Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister talk about collaborating with the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. I need an understanding. Is the hon. Minister in anyway suggesting that the resources available at the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development can support a particular co-operative to grow a mining company, add the value, the taxes and the jobs we are looking for from the resource envelope that the ministry has? I want a clear understanding. I thought that mining is a serious long-term business, which requires a lot of investment before one could even create a win-win situation. I just need clarity on that one.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that question. Let me take advantage of his question by veering off a lot bit. I will answer his question broadly.

Madam, we are grappling with illegal mining. One of the reasons we are grappling with illegal mining is the lack of structures in place. Working with the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development is to look at how many co-operatives are taking part because the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is not an expert in forming co-operatives. The expert is in the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. So, why we are collaborating with them to give us structures. The ministry has a programme to empower co-operatives with equipment and teach them safe mining skills. However, for us to do that we need the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development to give us structures so that we support the co-operatives to go into mining.

Madam Speaker, when a co-operative in formed, it does not mean that members of the co-operative are the ones that are going to be mining. They have formed a cooperative, which is a “company”, and then it will employee people. It will be working but other people will also be with them. At the same time, through the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, there are Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) loans, which are readily available to support the purchase of various equipment, that support small-scale and artisanal miners. Our programme is to promote small-scale and artisanal miners to become junior miners and later into large-scale miners. That is the programme we have as a ministry.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, according to the information available, I said that the gypsum in Chama is one of the best in the country.  The purity percentage is between 87 and 95. I know that it is a huge challenge for co-operatives because they would need excavators and so much equipment. So, through the hon. Minister’s engagement with mining investors, are there specific investors who may have interest to invest in gypsum so that they can partner with the people in Chama?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, since the hon. Member has raised the issue of capacity for the license holders. I advise that he visits our ministry. We can discuss, call them and see how we can link them up to those that are interested to invest. They are actually so many. The appetite to invest in Zambia has sky-rocketed. The hon. Member should visit our ministry. We will be able to link those people up.

Madam, I am alive to the importance of gypsum. It can even help to reduce the cost of cement. So, probably, the hon. Member should visit us. We will be able to link him up to those who are interested in investing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, gypsum from Chama is also used for making fertiliser. We heard how the hon. Member of Parliament lamented on the issues to do with fertiliser. If the company had utilised this mineral to make fertiliser, the people of Chama would not be complaining of fertiliser before the House.  So, since this company has failed, are there plans to cancel the license so that it can be given to a company that can start producing fertiliser in Chama?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much to the hon. Member for Kabwe Central for that important question.

Madam Speaker, cancelling a license has a procedure. So, if it is discovered that there is an abrogation on that licence, then the due process will be followed. I want the hon. Member of Parliament to get comfort that we are profiling every other mineral that has never been profiled in Zambia because we want to follow through. That is why we are bringing the Minerals Commission because it will be the regulator that will be checking and making sure that every mineral resource in Zambia begins to benefit the country, not only illegal miners.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take the last two questions from the hon. Member for Nyimba and the hon. Member for Mbabala, in that order.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has not disappointed me so far in the way the way he is answering the questions. I hope he does not disappoint me in answering my question.

Madam Speaker, I have a problem with the minerals we have across the country. When you look at the number of licences that have been given by the ministry, you will discover that they are given to speculators; people who do not mine. They only renew the licences when they know that they will expire in three months’ time. This has been happening in the ministry. It is perpetual succession. So, whatever happened at the ministry before the hon. Minister took office, it is still his ministry. Looking at the way unemployment levels are in the rural parts of the country, does the ministry not have any plans to empower or to fast-track the applications being done by the co-operatives? A good number of co-operatives out there apply for licences only to be overtaken by Lusaka dwellers or the so-called ‘Lusaka companies’, or the politically connected people. Does the hon. Minister not think that it could be very cardinal for us to start fast tracking the licensing of co-operatives in rural areas?

 

Madam Speaker, I think I have been to the hon. Minister’s office. He knows that I am still fighting for the people out there to get artisanal licences. The entire Eastern Province and Nyimba District are on licence, but no one is mining. No one is serious to go there and start mining. The artisans who know where the minerals are found are not being given the chance. Does the hon. Minister have plans to start fast tracking the giving of artisanal licences so that the co-operatives out there can start doing something so that we reduce the dependence on the Government?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. Yes, indeed, it is perpetual succession. There were many speculators, but we have taken over. However, I assure the hon. Member that as I speak, I have a big bundle of a report of licences that have been gotten back from speculators. The process is on-going. We are not going to allow people to get licences, speculate or sale them. What we want is for people that are serious to go into mining.

Madam Speaker, this has been a rigorous and not easy process, but we are equal to the task to make sure that we clean up the system and only allow serious license holders to operate. We will be following this up as a ministry. That is why I keep emphasising the issue of the regulator that we are putting in place as a ministry.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Mbabala an opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, is the ministry considering producing more information for other districts, such as Choma, about those existing licences? For example, in my constituency, I just see small-scale mining activities in Simaubi, Kabanze, part of Mbabala and Kabimba areas without really knowing whether those people have licences and what is going on in those areas.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, indeed, as I always say, it has not been easy for a ministry that is, firstly, centrally located in Lusaka, with incapacitated bureaus. They would not even be able to check. They have no vehicles. So, we need to build capacity, starting from Lusaka right through to the provinces through the Minerals Commission, which is the regulator. This is because it would be spread right across the country and would be able to know if, at all, miners in any particular place are legitimate or illegal. In turn, that would help us to check whether they are licenced or not. So, I think that for now, we suffer a little. However, as we roll out the programme, that issue will be checked and it will no longer be there.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

WHY REHABILITATION OF CHIMTENDE/LUPANDE ROAD IN MKAIKA CONSTITUENCY HAS STALLED

219. Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. why the rehabilitation of the Chimtende/Lupande Road in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;
2. when the project will resume;
3. what the cost of the project is; and
4. what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha) on behalf of (the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, I inform the House that works have stalled due to non-availability of funds as the contractor is still awaiting payment for the part of the works that have been certified.

Madam Speaker, the project will resume as soon as the Government secures funds to finance the remaining works.

Madam Speaker, the total cost of the project is K30,687,003.78.

Madam Speaker, the initial duration of the project was one year, from April, 2020 to April, 2021. However, that could not be achieved due to the unavailability of funds. The contractor, therefore, applied for an extension.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response. This contract hon. Minister, …

Hon. Member interjected.

Mr P. Phiri: Do not disturb.

Madam Speaker, that contract was undertaken in 2021. There were some initial works that the contractor did on that road, and because of those works, the road was disturbed such that it is now muddy because of the excavator which tampered with the road. Thereafter, the works stalled. It has been a long time; almost a year now. This is now 2023, yet no works have been going on, as he has already said.

Madam Speaker, I am worried because of how long it has been and how the road was tampered with, and that we cannot see any works being done on it. I would like to know whether the road works were terminated so that our people know. Surely, it is now a year, and you know that road was tampered with such that movements have been very difficult for our people in the constituency. Let me know if that contract was terminated so that we forget. We have seen that some road contracts have been terminated, so, let me know so that we are aware, and the people in the constituency know about that contract.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I would like to correct the hon. Member that the contract was not signed in 2021. I was very clear in my answer that it was initially signed in 2020. The status of the project is that it expired and it has not been renewed due to limited funds.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr A. I. Banda (Vubwi): Madam Speaker, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vubwi! Powerful!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us not be excited about Vubwi. Let us give him a chance.

Hon. Member, you can continue with your question.

Laughter

Mr A. I. Banda: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement. Looking at the need that the people in Mkaika have pertaining to that contract, how soon does the hon. Minister think the ministry could intervene in the matter?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence. I did not get the question clearly. There was a lot of noise.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will allow the hon. Member to repeat the question.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr A. I. Banda: Madam Speaker, my question is: Looking at the need that the people in Mkaika have, what is the ministry planning towards the works in Mkaika? This is in relation to the contract in issue.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, for now, there are no funds for that particular road. As I stated earlier on, the contract expired, and it has not been renewed. As and when funds are available, I think that the situation could be revisited.

 

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, was the contract terminated or not?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I think, I gave an answer regarding the current status of the project that it expired, and it was not renewed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, allow me to wish the Chipolopolo boys the best of luck as they take on Lesotho this evening. It is our sincere hope, as the people of Mandevu, that they will beat Lesotho seven zero like Liverpool football Club beat another team.

Madam Speaker, I note from the hon. Ministers answer that the contract was terminated. However, in terms of the works that were done, what is the percentage and how much is owed to the contractor?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, before the Acting hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development responds, your voices are becoming louder. Can you, please, lower them?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the contract was for a 22 Km stretch. Let me take advantage of that question and give this information that 25 per cent of progress was made.

Madam Speaker, as I said, the total sum of this contract was about K30.7 million. This is the total sum, but for what is owed, I do not have the figures. However, I can check for the hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, could he confirm that the Government has no immediate plans, at least, this year, 2023, to work on the road in Mkaika so that people are well informed and do not trouble the hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I would not say, out-rightly, that the Government has no plans for that road because if money is found, there is a possibility that the decision could be revisited.

Madam Speaker, what I said was that the status of this contract is that it expired and was not renewed. However, as regards plans for that road and many others, as and when funds are available, it is possible that the Government could review them and work on some of them.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF DIP TANKS IN MAGOYE CONSTITUENCY

220. Mr. Malambo (Magoye) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct dip tanks in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency;
2. if so, how many dip tanks will be constructed in the Constituency;
3. when the plans will be implemented; and
4. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that tick-borne diseases are categorised as management diseases that are a responsibility of the farmer. However, due to the high cost of construction, the Government has, from time to time, intervened in the construction of dip tanks. Previously, financing was taken up by the Central Government.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government Policy is now anchored on decentralisation, which implies that communities will now determine their needs. This will be achieved using the community project component of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: Let me inform the House that using this approach, communities in Itezhi-Tezhi and Mbabala, among others, have constructed dip tanks. I, therefore, call upon hon. Members of Parliament to use this approach, which is more effective.

Madam Speaker, as stated above, the number of dip tanks to be constructed will now be determined by the needs of communities. I am, therefore, not in a position to determine the number of dip tanks for Magoye Parliamentary Constituency as that, now, is a duty of our communities.

Madam Speaker, as alluded to above, plans of when to implement the construction of dip tanks are determined and driven by communities.

Further, the plans will be implemented by local communities as outlined above. Therefore, part (d) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is aware that Magoye, predominantly, has a lot of cattle, and he took time to appreciate what we have in Magoye when he visited. He also brought in the component of insurance. An insurer would like to have a situation in which there is a good number of dip tanks to ensure that his investment does not go to waste.

Madam Speaker, as much as we can be able to utilise the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), it is not good enough for us if we cannot be able to utilise it. That is the reason, on behalf of the people in Magoye, I thought of asking this question so that the ministry, through the hon. Minister and other facilities that may come from the ministry, communities could construct dip tanks.

Madam Speaker, therefore, does the hon. Minister have any resources in the ministry, other than the CDF component that we have already, that we can utilise and increase the number of dip tanks because we want to protect our animals?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I really appreciate what is happening in Magoye as far as livestock production is concerned. The New Dawn Administration is committed to making sure that disease challenges that are faced by the farms are mitigated.

Madam Speaker, firstly, this Government is committed to supporting our farmers by providing technical support. This is one way in which it will help our communities in coming up with dip tanks. In addition, it has come to our knowledge that programmes that are centrally driven are proved to be a failure. As I am talking, Madam Speaker, Magoye Constituency has almost seventeen dip tanks which were driven by the Central Government of the previous regime and all of them are not operational. The reason is that the communities were not involved. The projects were just being driven by the Central Government and the participation of our communities was poor. Hence, the New Dawn Government feels that communities should be in the forefront and the Government must just give support.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I know that some people are surprised why the hon. Member for Kabwata is asking a question. I am equally a farmer and most of my animals are kept in the area the hon. Minister is talking about.

 

 Madam Speaker, I know the hon. Minister has stated that about seventeen dip tanks were constructed by the previous regime. Could he be in a position to give us the cost of those dip tanks that were constructed by the previous regime five or six years ago so that we know because history is able to guide us to where we are going in future?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kabwata for the follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to encourage the hon. Member of Parliament that this is why we are saying that what happened in the previous regime was a mess because we have got a number of dip tanks –

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the point of order is on the hon. Minister who knows what language should be used in this august House. Is he in order to use unparliamentary language such as, “mess?” Even if his vocabulary is limited, he can always do better. Is he in order to use unparliamentary language?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, the way you have used the word “mess” is provoking and because of that, it becomes unparliamentary. Kindly, withdraw that word and replace it with a better word. You may proceed to finish your response.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for the guidance. I withdraw the word “mess” and replace it with “what was happening in the previous regime on the issues concerning the construction of dip tanks especially in the Southern Province was terrible.”

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote:  There are so many dip tanks that are uncompleted in the Southern Province.

Madam Speaker, let me go back to the question raised by the hon. Member for Kabwata. I wish to state that we are in the process of coming up with a ministerial statement on the number of dip tanks that were not completed during the previous regime. So, I will be able to give a specific amount of money that was spent on these dip tanks through a ministerial statement.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has made it very clear that we need to use the Constituency Development Fun (CDF) to construct the dip tanks, when is he going to give these hon. Members in this House including myself structural design plans to ensure that all the dip tanks are of good standard? I am asking this question because I hear that my hon. Colleague from Nalikwanda, Hon. Simunji, is already constructing a dip tank which looks like a swimming pool.

Laughter

Mr Chaatila: So, when is the hon. Minister going to give us structural designs for standard dip tanks?

Laughter

Madam First Speaker: Order!

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, my ministry is in the process – As we are compiling the final report on the dip tanks, we are also coming up with the standard specifications of dip tanks for our farmers. That is the only way we are going to support our livestock farmers to control diseases.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has clearly and publicly washed his hands that he has nothing to do, as a ministry, with the construction of dip tanks and that he has referred that issue to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), looking at the CDF guidelines for this year, they do not state a dip tank anywhere. How worried is he that the ministry has not been catered for? What interventions is he going to use for his ministry to be well-catered for?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, when I was giving my answer, I stated that from the component of community projects, communities will be able to identify their needs.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: So, the New Dawn Administration has given powers to the people to choose what they want to do. There is no restriction on how they are supposed to identify their needs. What the hon. Member is saying is just speculation. Please, use your community project component in the CDF.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu: Wapya!

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, the information I have received from my relatives in Magoye is that they cannot used the dip tanks because they are too big such that when an animal goes into the dip tank, they find it difficult to coordinate. Secondly, the dip tanks are constructed right in the communities where people are. So, they become unusable. What is the Government going to do to the seventeen swimming pools which were constructed by our very incompetent friends in the previous Government?

Hon. Government UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, indeed, our farmers are in a very difficult situation because of what was provided for them.  However, this New Dawn Government –

Hon. Government Member: Provided by who?

Mr Chikote: Provided by the previous regime.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us give chance to the hon. Minister to respond in silence.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I stated that the Government is committed to making sure that disease control is top on its agenda. We will support our farmers by providing technical support to them. That is what we will do. We will not allow our farmers to get into those troubles.

Madam Speaker, coming to what we will do with the seventeen dip tanks in Magoye, I am waiting for a comprehensive report of all dip tanks in the Southern Province that are not functional. Our job is to establish which ones to complete and those that cannot be repaired. So, it will depend on the report from the experts that we, as a ministry, are waiting to receive, then we will be able to guide our farmers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, much as we are trying to construct dip tanks based on community demand, the ministry vaccinates animals to protect them against diseases, and this shows how committed the New Dawn Government is.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, is the ministry interested in imparting knowledge on the community so that the dipping of animals becomes a day-to-day activity, to ensure that the Government’s Budget is protected?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Magoye for that question. Indeed, the Government is committed to the livestock industry, especially in Magoye, and it has interest in ensuring that the livestock industry there is supported and it becomes a role model to this country. The ministry has a number of programmes that it has lined up, to communicate to our farmers not only on disease control, but on a number of best practices. We need to impart knowledge on our farmers in order to even increase production. So, the ministry has a number of programmes that are lined up. We will make sure we give capacity building to our farmers so they can understand the sector very well and do the right thing other than just watching from the terrace. We will make sure that our farmers are really helped.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have a lot of work. I will take the last three questions from the hon. Member for Msanzala, the hon. Member for Mbabala and the hon. Member for Chipili, in that order.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has discovered that the dip tanks that were constructed in Magoye are not of the required standard, what will he do with the technocrats in the ministry?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the question is what are we going to do with our technical people? Our ‘techinocrats’ –

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us give the hon. Minister chance.

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, our ‘techinocrats’ …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: … are there to give technical knowledge. So, they will continue providing expert knowledge, and that is their job. Otherwise, if we were to follow in detail what transpired with the dip tanks, we would discover that it is actually not the fault of our experts, rather it is as a result of bringing in politics. A number of issues were involved when constructing those sub-standard dip tanks. So, the New Dawn Administration will make sure that it does the right thing to help our farmers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, thank you, once again, for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the good people of Mbabala, to ask a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, in view of the wonderful work the ministry is doing, is it considering, as part of its technical support, to revive the dipping programme in the Southern Province by giving a starter pack of the dip and to also improve the efficacy of the dip being used in the province?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, the ministry will provide support because eradicating diseases is the responsibility of the farmer. Management diseases are supposed to be tackled by the farmer. All the ministry will do will be to give support that is needed for our farmers to do the right thing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, how much has the Central Government set aside to construct dip tanks because the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is already known; it is K28. 3 million. How much has the Central Government put aside to help our people other than the CDF?

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, at the expense of repeating myself, no money has been set aside by the Central Government to construct dip tanks. All the ministry will do is give technical support to our farmers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO ELECTRIFY SOME UPGRADED SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN MBABALA CONSTITUENCY

221. Mr Munsanje asked the Minister of Energy:

(a)          whether the Government has any plans to electrify the following upgraded secondary schools in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)         Mabwe Atuba;

(ii)        Mang’unza;

(iii)       Simaubi;

(iv)       Mbabala; and

(v)        Maanda; and

(b)      if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala)): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has plans of electrifying the upgraded secondary schools in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency, that is Mabwe Atuba, Mang’unza, Simaubi, Mbabala and Maanda.

Madam Speaker, the connection of Mabwe Atuba Secondary School was commissioned on 5^th September, 2022, by ZESCO Limited. Further, REA plans to undertake the scoping works for the other upgraded secondary schools in the second quarter of 2023. This will involve conducting feasibility studies in order to establish the scope of works, Bill of Quantities (BoQs) and the cost of electrification for possible electrification in 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response. I want clarity from him. In this year’s Budget, the Government set aside K750 million for the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), which can possibly do about 500 km. If we were to divide that into constituencies, maybe it would do about 20 to 30 km per constituency of a distribution line. There is also the K156 million that will come from our Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So is it possible to get a certain percentage from the K156 million and allocate it to the needy area in Mbabala Constituency?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bahati for his question. I think the issue of the K1 million per constituency from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been well debated. It should really go towards connections and so on and so forth. However, I do not quite understand the gist of the question because the original question deals with certain facilities.

Interruptions

Eng. Milupi: One day you will be taken off the road to allow me to pass.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: For the facilities that are here, one of them has already been connected. For the others, we have said that by 2024 there might be possible electrification. However, I ask the individual hon. Members of Parliament who have released the K1 million to maybe talk to REA to able to direct that K1 million to wherever they want the electrification to take place.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the question is about Mbabala. So let us have supplementary questions focussed on Mbabala.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the feasibility study and the scope of works are likely to commence in the second quarter. How long is it going to take so that we can have an indication when the works can start and our people can have the highly needed services in the schools in Mbabala?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the feasibility study which will result in the determination of the bill of quantities (BoQ) and the scope of works will be completed within this year. What I did say is that all things being equal, work can start certainly in 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

M Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing the people of Katombola, though me, to ask a question in support of our colleagues in Mbabala. This is because their situation is the same as the one in Katombola.

Madam Speaker, right now, rural areas are like war-torn zones because they were not developed for a long time by the previous Government. As a result, children in schools are not able to do computer studies. Now, Simaubi, Mang’unza, Maanda and Mbabala schools have been upgraded, just like some schools in Katombola. Therefore, what does the hon. Minister expect will happen since connectivity will only take place 2024 after the feasibility study? How are the pupils going to learn computer studies without electricity?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, this is the more reason the hon. Member for Katombola asked the question. If hon. Members listened to the debate yesterday when we were dealing with the Bill for rural electrification at second reading stage, they would note that there was an attempt to include other things into rural electrification. However, we said that there is already a big job in terms of electrifying the rural areas. The reason we said that is because we know of the situation, such as what prevails in Mbabala. There is so much work that requires to be done.

Madam Speaker, on the other hand, what we have said is that waiting for connection to national grid and so on and so forth sometimes is not always the way to go. Some of these schools, local courts, rural health centres and clinics can be provided for by having standalone solar panels or solar systems. This can be included in CDF budgets if we need to get this connected as quickly as possible. However, in terms of this question, you have to follow this process in order to develop the BoQ and scope of works and be able to provide for it in the budget, which can only happen in 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

CONSTRUCTION OF OFFICES FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF IMMIGRATION AT KAPALALA BORDER POST

222. Mr. Chonde (Milenge) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security when the Government will construct offices for the Department of Immigration at the Kapalala Border Post in Milenge District.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the construction of offices for the Department of Immigration at Kapalala crossing point in Milenge District of Luapula Province will commence when funds are made available. Land has been secured for both offices and houses for staff near the entry point.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, for the hon. Minister’s information, this is a very sensitive situation in Milenge. Milenge and the Copperbelt are separated by that strip in the Congo, which is about 89 km. So you find that there is regular movement of people in search of greener pastures on the Copperbelt. We cannot sit here and turn a blind eye because we cannot account for people. There is always daily pilgrimage of people moving to and fro. Does the ministry have any emergency measures now that the hon. Minister has heard what is happening to attend to the situation in Milenge?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am aware of the situation obtaining in Milenge and in particular at the Kapalala Border Post. Let me inform my hon. Colleague that Kapalala Border Post is being serviced by Milenge, where there are five immigration officers who superintend over the area. We are aware of the challenges, but he is also aware of the financial situation that is currently obtaining in the country. The spirit is willing, but we cannot afford to go and start constructing because the body is weak.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, yesterday, we had a conversation regarding the challenge of smuggling mealie-meal. I am sure as a cross cutting issue, the issue of patrolling a border and ensuring that it is well managed comes into play. Is the hon. Minister in a position to state how much money will be required for this very important facility so that working with the hon. Member of Parliament in the affected area, a solution can be found?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am not in a position to categorically state the amount of money that will be required to construct this particular border post. I can advise my colleague to come to the office so that we sit with him together with my officers and assess the immediate requirement to construct a border post at Kapalala. If the hon. Member of Parliament has an option, we will consider that particular option. However, you may recall that I did make a commitment on the Floor of this House that, for the first time, we are recruiting border guards. These border guards have started training at Sondela. Once they graduate, we will be able to send them to specific areas where the need will arise.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing the people of Lubansenshi to ask a question regarding Milenge Constituency. Is the hon. Minister able to tell the people of Milenge Constituency how many people are expected to be employed as immigration officers and as support staff? We would like to know how many jobs are expected to be created in Milenge Constituency.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, we are not recruiting from Milenge. We are recruiting from the country of Zambia. Those who qualify are the ones who will be sent to Milenge.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, taking advantage of the interface with the hon. Minister, I appreciate his invitation. However, the situation of the officers in Milenge is so sad. There are five officers with no accommodation and they are just squatting somewhere. They do not have transport, yet it is a border post. I just wanted the hon. Minister to know that.

Madam Speaker, in responding to the question from the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, the hon. Minister said there is no cost. Now that there is no cost, does the hon. Minister have any design for this particular border post or standard designs that he thinks will be applicable in Milenge? I think that will give us a chance to arrive at a cost of constructing a border post.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I did not say that there is no cost. What I did mention is that I do not have the figures to immediately give to my colleague. However, I have invited him to the office so that we meet with the technocrats and look at the border post that we intend to put up in Kapalala. If there is funding available through other sources, including the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we will be able to provide it for Kapalala.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, this border point is very important. It does not only involve the movement of the people, but also that of goods. Now, the conditions under which the five people are serving the border are quite pathetic. Furthermore, there is an absence of other Government departments such as the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) that are supposed to be collecting some revenue there as well as the police who are supposed to be manning the place and many others.

Madam Speaker, it is quite sensitive and a very fragile situation. Since the Government does not have money now, is the ministry not considering bringing in some co-operating partners, in the interim, so that we can at least put up the infrastructure which is productive and profitable? I know this can also bring in the generation of money when ZRA moves on site? Is the hon. Minister considering bringing on board co-operating partners to come and assist?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, it would appear that we are at cross purposes. My colleague is talking about Milenge Border Post, which is not what the question is about. The question relates to Kapalala in Milenge District. Milenge border post is serviced by five immigration officers, as far as the situation is obtaining.

Madam, I also want to mention that there is a misconception patterning to the flow of people crossing at this Kapalala. According to our report, the area, which is called Kapalala crossing point, has very low traffic such that the numbers of people who cross at Kapalala are between one and two. Most of the people who want to cross into the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) use the other border point. That is the information we have.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister’s responses are appreciated. However, I want to use this opportunity to get some clarity. In his response to the follow-up question from the hon. Member for Milenge, in trying to assure him that the Government will deploy further human resource to beef up the operations of the five officers at Milenge border, the hon. Minister made reference to the border guards who you said are being trained at Sondela. This means they are semi-military in terms of their work. How will these guards be working with the immigration officers who are already on the ground? If they are being trained at Sondela, it appears they will be operational in nature and they will not be as regular as our ordinary officers.

Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister clarify that aspect so that members of the public can know that they will either be working hand in hand with the immigration officers or not. if he has to assign them to Kapalala, it will just be an operation area for them to do specific duties, we should get clarity because the way we have paramilitary and mobile police, they have got distinct duties that are assigned to them.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank my colleague the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu for that particular question where he wants me to clarify patterning to the role of the border guards. As the term implies, they will be there to assist the immigration officers to provide security in the areas they will be assigned. They will be guarding the borders because they are also immigration officers but armed. They will be operating like paramilitary or police officers in the area.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE PLANNING AND BUDGETING COMMITTEE

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Planning and Budgeting Committee on the Review of the Third and Fourth Quarter Performance of the 2022 Budget for Selected Ministries and Provinces, for the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 17^th March, 2023.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Chonde (Milenge): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order 195 (4) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2021, your Committee reviewed the budget performance for selected ministries and provinces for the third quarter of the 2022 Financial Year.

From the outset, Madam Speaker, let me inform this august House that this was the first time that your Committee undertook a review of the third and fourth quarter budget performance. Previously, your Committee only reviewed the performance of the first and second quarters. This maiden milestone enabled your Committee to analyse the performance of the selected ministries and provinces throughout the year 2022. Therefore, I urge the House to adopt the Report of your Committee that reviewed the performance of the 2022 budget with respect to the selected ministries and provinces.

Madam Speaker, it is a well-known fact that Monitoring and Evaluation (M&E) is a powerful public management tool that can be used to improve the way the Government achieves results. In addition, just as the Government needs financial, human resource and accountability systems, it also needs good performance feedback systems, which is what the Report of your Committee intends to achieve.

Madam Speaker, in the period under review, Zambia’s Gross Domestic Product Growth Rate was revised to 3 per cent, from 3.5 per cent. It is noteworthy that most macroeconomic fundamentals were on the right trajectory. Notably, annual inflation was wavering between 9.7 and 9.9 per cent; the exchange rate closed the year at K18.21 per 1US$; and interest rates averaged 25 per cent. In addition, yield rates on Treasury Bills and Government Bonds rose to an average of 13.8 per cent and 22.8 per cent, respectively; and, as at the close of the year, gross international reserves were at US$3.02 billion, equivalent to 3.8 months of import cover.

Madam Speaker, in spite of the positive economic performance recorded thus far, the country remains vulnerable to external shocks such as unstable copper prices and reduction in copper production. This is in addition to the effects of the Ukraine and Russia conflict that has threatened the supply chain of essential commodities. It is, therefore, necessary for the Government to remain responsive, if economic growth is to be secured. The Government should not neglect wholesale expenditure on capital formation and developmental activities, which are key to economic growth.

Madam Speaker, I am confident that hon. Members have had occasion to peruse the report of your Committee and I will, therefore, only highlight very few salient issues.

Failure to Narrow the Fiscal Deficit

Madam Speaker, your Committee extols the Government for ensuring that there was budget credibility during the period under review, as major expenditure lines were either fully funded or over-funded from savings made from the debt service standstill. However, it expresses concern over the Government’s failure to meet the set fiscal deficit target. Your Committee notes that the Government missed the target of 6.7 per cent fiscal deficit to Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in 2022 and expresses serious concern that the fiscal target of 7.7 per cent set for 2023 is too high and inconsistent with the 6.4 target for 2023 proposed in the Eighth National Development Plan. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should put in place measures to ensure sustainable utilisation of resources to avert further debt accumulation.

Non-Deductibility of Mineral Royalty

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes, with concern, that Zambia has changed its mineral tax regime ten times in the last sixteen years. Of particular concern is the Mineral Royalty Tax. Your Committee notes that in 2021, the total tax contribution by mining companies was higher as it included K6.4 billion Mineral Royalty, which was non-deductible. Conversely, in the second half of 2022, non-tax revenue underperformed by 13.9 per cent in comparison with the second half of 2021 where non-tax revenue over performed by 79.1 per cent.

Madam Speaker, your Committee notes that this underperformance is due to under collection in Mineral Royalty by 31.7 per cent, as it is now deductible. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should have targeted this incentive to deduct Mineral Royalty Tax as an expense only to green-field mines and not for the ones already in operation. While noting that the policy shift is meant to spur economic growth and not stifle investment in the mining sector, your Committee recommends that the Government should promptly review this policy shift.

Failure to Implement Projects under the Rural Electrification Agency

Madam Speaker, another issue of concern is the low burn-rate of resources at the Ministry of Energy. Though the Treasury had fully released funds to the Ministry of Energy, the Ministry failed to implement a number of projects, among them the renewable and alternative energy projects, rural electrification and energy survey to the detriment of the energy sector. In view of the foregoing, your Committee urges the Executive to ensure that the Ministry of Energy is proactive in the implementation of energy projects. Further, your Committee urges the Executive to implement holistic measures to eliminate delays in the implementation of programmes that arise due to winding procurement procedures.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I place on record sincere appreciation to stakeholders who provided information to your Committee. Gratitude is also extended to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, now.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity. In seconding the Motion that has been ably moved by our Chairperson, urging the House to adopt the report of your Committee, which gives an analysis of the performance of the 2022 Budget of selected ministries and provinces, that was laid on the Floor of the House on 17^th March, 2023. I will proceed to make a few comments and will restrict myself to about three or four.

Madam Speaker, there are certain things that my Chairperson may not have commented on that your Committee received. The first one is to enhance co-ordination of sector ministries with the provincial administration. Your Committee observed that there is a lack of co-ordination between sector ministries in provinces and provincial administrations. As a result, there is wastage. The activities have resulted into duplication and wastage of resources at the provincial level.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also observes that various sector ministries have pre-planned projects which the provincial administrations are often not aware of and are not party to from inception, but are expected to monitor and evaluate the projects. In light of the above, your Committee recommends that the Executive, as a matter of urgency, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, before Business was suspended, I was saying that in view of the effects of the uncoordinated efforts by the Government, your Committee recommends the Executive to urgently implement budget tracking systems at provincial and central levels to enhance coordination. In addition, your Committee urges the Executive to consider channelling the resources meant for capital projects under respective –

Interruptions  

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Who is disturbing the hon. Member on the Floor? Can we concentrate.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, it is the hon. Minister.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, in addition, your Committee urges the Executive to consider channelling resources meant for capital projects, which are under respective sectors that are operating in the province, to the budget for provincial administrations in order to enhance effective use of public resources and also, verification.   

Constrained Fiscal Space

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that a paltry 12 per cent was spent on productive capital projects such as roads, rural electrification, and water and sanitation.

Madam Speaker, conversely, 50 per cent of the total expenditure accounted for the Public Service Wage Bill, and 71 per cent of the domestic revenue accounted for debt payments. While noting the debt standstill and the constrained fiscal space, your Committee recommends the Government not to neglect wholesale expenditure on capital formation and developmental activities, which are key to economic growth.

Restructuring of debt under the G20

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that the Government has been making interest payments on public –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member on the Floor.

Kindly be advised that you are not supposed to read.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, I appreciate your guidance. Obviously, I am not reading word by word. I am just trying to be accurate.

Laughter

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, these are important matters. We need to guide the new Government. It is a new Government just like I am a new hon. Member of Parliament. So, it needs clear guidance in terms of checks and balances.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, I may ride on your discretion.

Laughter

Mr Chonde: I want to be very accurate because these were your Committee’s recommendations and I want to be as accurate as we received them.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubika: In conclusion!

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, your Committee observes –

Mrs Chonya: You are reading!

Laughter

Mr Chonde: Yes, I am reading for reference. In fact, let me read properly because I can read.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Milenge.

Please, next time, take into consideration that Standing Orders do not permit hon. Members to read. For now, you may continue so that we make progress.

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, I always appreciate your guidance and I will ride on your discretion. I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that the Government has been making interest payment on the public debt without necessarily paying a full amortised loan due to the ongoing debt structuring discussion. While noting that this has helped to free some resources which have been used in other important sectors such as the health and education sectors, your Committee observes with concern that the current arrangement is not a solution to postponement of a problem, particularly, in an event that the restructuring of the debt may not succeed.

Interruptions

Mr Mubika: Finally!

Mr Chonde: It is not finally.

Laughter

Introduction of the Education Levy and its full Implementation

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that this particular concern was passed in 2019 in order to reinforce the education sector.

Interruptions

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, in light of the above, your Committee recommends the Government to consider introducing an education levy to ensure that programmes such as feeding programmes in schools, monitoring of examinations, and development of early education centres are fully implemented.

Mr B. Mpundu: Hear, hear!

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, in conclusion –

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, ...

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chonde: ...allow me to support the mover of the Motion.

Madam Speaker, despite the interruptions by hon. Members in the House, the people of Milenge are very happy that you gave me a chance to second the Motion. I am grateful.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to comment on the report done by my hon. Colleagues in the Planning and Budgeting Committee. I want to thank my brother, Hon. Fred Chaatila for moving this Motion, and hon. Member of Parliament for Milenge for seconding it.

Madam Speaker, this is a very well-done report. It has sixty pages and I took time to read it. Here is how your Committee concluded its work. On page 58, under the final observation and recommendation, it says that your Committee extols the Executive for putting up an arrear dismantling strategy notwithstanding the Committee’s resolve to await the progress report on the actual dismantling of arrears for staff in the Civil Service.

Madam Speaker, it is the same United Party for National Development (UPND) Government that crafted the plan to dismantle arrears but your Committee is saying that it will wait until the report is brought.    

Nevertheless, your Committee is very happy that the plan is in place. However, what did the mover of the Motion say? He is concerned that in the report, the fiscal deficit target has been missed. He is also concerned that the fiscal deficit plan of 7.7 per cent for 2023, is too high. As far as fiscal consolidation is concerned, in a narrowing income country, the mover sees these as very unfortunate measures. He also said the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) indicates that the Government was targeting 6.4 per cent, but went and set 7.7 per cent, which is too high.

Madam Speaker, let me comment on four things.

Madam Speaker, page 14 of the report says the releases towards social benefits amounted to K1.8 billion in the fourth quarter of 2021 compared to K1 billion in 2022.

Madam Speaker, the Government reduced the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) to pay vulnerable people in 2022 by K800 million. Now, can you imagine what the implication of the reduction by K800 million is, when people are suffering? The poor people are more than they were in 2021, yet the Government went ahead to reduce the SCT. That is very unfortunate. I call on the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to increase the amount of the SCT in the Supplementary Budget, as it budgets for the fourth quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, on page 15, the next page, the report says as follows:

“It was explained that 2022 Budget was largely credible as major expenditure lines were either fully funded or over funded from savings made from the debt service standstill”.

Madam Speaker, in the 2022 Budget, there was no budgeting for debt service standstill. So, the fact that there is a debt service standstill means the Budget is not credible. You are not paying for debt service, then you use that money for programmes and call that over funding and credibility?

Madam Speaker, the Government must say things which are real, not massaging things. That money was budgeted for debt service. So, you cannot bring that money and use it for programmes and say, we are a credible Government.

Madam Speaker, on page 17 –

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Member debating, and it is anchored on Standing Order No.65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte is quoting from the report of the Committee, yet he is blaming the Government for the content of that report. Is he in order to mislead himself and the House by blaming the Government, for a report that has been generated by your Committee?

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much for that point of order. My guide is that please, let us just follow what is in the report. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will come and respond. However, let us try as much as possible to follow what is in the report so that the people who are listening out there are given correct information. Mind you, this is a very interesting subject and many people are actually listening to what is being debated or said in this House.

So, with that guide, you can proceed.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I will not depart from the report because of your guidance. I intended to do that.

Madam Speaker, K1.2 billion was used on drugs and medical supplies in quarter three of 2021 and K2.8 billion was used in quarter four of 2022. Would you not be worried that when there was more money, there were no drugs in hospitals? Is there any correlation between more money and no drugs? I expect many issues in the Auditor-General’s Report.

Madam Speaker, for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), the Government budgeted K5.3 billion and put in K7.6 billion, in a year where people got one or two bags or medas and so on and so forth. I expect many audit queries. If the Auditor-General will do a good job, I expect the misapplication of resources to be revealed.

Madam Speaker, the last thing I want to comment on is – I was confused by the point of order.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: What is that now? I think you managed to do your job, Sir. You really confused me.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I expect a good auditor’s report based on the information contained in your Committee’s report vis-à-vis what is happening in our country today.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi, are you ready to debate?

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): I am ready, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity, on behalf of the people of Itezhi-tezhi, to add a voice to this important report. I will quickly comment on the recommendation in the report with regard to Vote 80 – Ministry of Education, to introduce education levy.

Madam Speaker, I want to mention that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government introduced free education, which has attracted a lot of interest from parents, and the children who were languishing in the streets. So far, it is indicated that there is over 81 per cent increase in enrolment in all our schools. The Government has demonstrated in various ways that it wants to sustain free education and see to it that it is not only quantitative, but qualitative education. The budget –

Mr Fube crossed the Floor.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Order!

Is that the hon. Member for Chilubi?

Mr Mutinta: It is the hon. Member for Chilubi, Madam Speaker

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, you disturbed the person debating and I. Our Standing Orders are clear. You are not supposed to pass in between the person debating and the Speaker. You are a senior Member. You know these things very well.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, basically, the point I am driving is that the Government is demonstrating that free education should become a reality. Free education should not only be quantitative, but it should be qualitative. We have seen a steady increase of the allocation for the Ministry of Education, though it has not reached the 20 per cent benchmark required by the Southern African Development Community (SADC).

Madam Speaker, as we aspire to reach the 2030 goals for education and the Sustainable Development Goals (SDG’s), I agree with the Committee’s recommendation that we strongly need to introduce an education levy because the sector is suffocating. The demands are quite high. Despite the Government increasing grants to secondary schools, we still see numerous needs coming forth such as school uniforms, books, support for girl child education, and so on and so forth. Therefore, I strongly agree with your Committee. I am thinking in the same way that the committee thought in making the recommendation that education levy has to be introduced or perhaps replacing the Television (TV) Levy with Education Levy. At this point, the education system needs urgent support and the levy could be one that could mitigate the challenges we are facing in our realisation of not only quantity education but quality education.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity, on behalf of Chama North, just to make a brief comment on the Report, and I take this opportunity to thank the mover and seconder of this very important Motion.

Madam Speaker, I think I will just highlight a few areas in this Report. I thank the Committee because it did a good job and came up with a very detailed report that can help the Government move the country forward.

Madam Speaker, I think, in the report, it has highlighted the issue of the exchange rate. In the first quarter, we witnessed, as a country, the appreciation of the Zambian Kwacha, and we thought we were moving in the right direction. However, of late, we have noticed that the Kwacha has been depreciating at a very alarming rate. I feel the Government must put in measures to ensure that it does not depreciate further. Once the exchange rate is unstable, it pushes up the cost of living, and the cost of doing business in the country.

Madam Speaker, the Committee highlighted the major reasons the Kwacha has been depreciating; the importation of agriculture products, purchase of drugs and petroleum products. So, I think it is important that, as a country, we take radical measures to ensure that our exchange rate remains stable, especially that Zambia is an import-oriented economy. I also think it is important because we spend more money in certain areas, for example, in importing agriculture products. I feel that we must be able to support our companies such as Nitrogen Chemicals, and encourage many companies to come on board and ensure that we are able to produce inputs. That way we would save our foreign exchange.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also noted that the importation of drugs contributed to the depreciation of Zambian Kwacha. I think Zambia has been independent for fifty-eight years now, and we expect that, at least, the country should be able to source drugs locally. However, 90 per cent of drugs in our hospitals are imported from other countries such as South Africa and India. We should promote the pharmaceutical companies in the country. I remember those days in Ndola we had quite a number of companies that were manufacturing drugs. However, I think, they have gone down. So, the Government must put in measures to ensure that we are able to manufacture drugs.

 

Madam Speaker, quickly, I go to the mining industry. Your Committee noted that although copper production was increasing at a certain stage, we also saw the declining of copper production in the country. Copper accounts for 70 per cent of our foreign exchange earnings, so the mining industry continues to be a bedrock of the Zambian economy, and contributes largely to our gross domestic product (GDP). So, I think it is important that we ensure that we have an enabling environment for the growth of the mining sector.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also noted that the challenges we have been facing in the mining industry could also be attributed to the challenges at Mopani Copper Mines and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). I feel that the Government must find a solution to the challenges being faced by the mines. We thought it was a window of opportunity for the country to own the mines because the people of Zambia had been complaining since privatisation. The country is not deriving maximum economic benefits from its mineral wealth. So, it is important that, as a country, we do not depend on foreign investors. We have so many investors who can invest in the mining industry. There is the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), Workers’ Compensation Fund Control Board, and so many companies in the country. I feel that if we go in that direction, the country will be moving forward. We shall create more jobs and we are going to have a stable economy.

Madam Speaker, lastly, let me comment on budget credibility which is the ability of the Government to meet the expenditure and revenue targets accurately and consistently. Indeed, we have been told that certain key sectors were underfunded, for example, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). We know that majority for the people do not have access to electricity. So, I think it is important that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning ensures that resources allocated to REA are released timely so that the authority is able to electrify many areas. I represent a rural constituency, Chama North, where only one out of thirteen wards has electricity. So, it is our appeal to the ministry that such critical sectors should not be underfunded at all. Infrastructure such as schools, hospitals and water infrastructure were also under funded. I think it is important that the sectors are properly funded in order to promote growth in our economy.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, we have been talking about universal access to electricity by 2030. This is 2023, and we are remaining with only seven years before 2030. So, meaning that the majority of our people would not be able to access electricity by 2030. So, I think as we are putting benchmarks for Vision 2030, we must allocate corresponding resources to some of the sectors if at all we have to grow the sectors.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I support the Report.

Thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for giving me a chance to also make a few comments on the Motion ably moved by the Chairperson of the Planning and Budget Committee to adopt the Report of the Committee on the review of the third and fourth quarter performance of the 2022 Budget for selected ministries and provinces.

Madam Speaker, my discourse will be premised on part four, paragraph five of your Report that is mainly dealing with stakeholders’ concerns. The first concern was the disbursement of full funding during the fourth quarter. Your Report highlighted the stakeholders concerns that while the funds were released fully in the third and fourth quarters of 2022, most of the resources were released in the fourth quarter of the year, meaning towards the end of the year.

Madam Speaker, this exerts pressure on the spending agencies to try and make sure that they spend the money before it can probably get back to the Treasury. It is during that time when most of the procedures are ignored, including the Public Finance Management Act and the Public Procurement Act because people want to ensure that they spend the money at that late hour. So, it is very important that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning ensures that the money is released in good time so that the spending agencies can then plan, especially in view of the protracted tendering processes and the procurement procedures which take time.

Madam Speaker, the second issue is what my hon. Colleague was talking about; the failure to implement projects under the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). It is concerning that out of the K377,352,720, only K51,524,005 was released and spent. This is about 20 per cent. Now, you can image how many rural areas would have been served. So, we need to improve on the implementation of projects as they are designed. We have heard that the Government has made some savings from not servicing the debt. So, it is important that it takes advantage of that and deal with some of the projects that are outstanding. The Government should unlock the potential in the rural areas and the dividends will come to the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, the other concern was the issue which was raised regarding the introduction of education levy. It has been a song and praises have been sung regarding the free education. However, we must assess the successes that are coming out from there. What challenges has this free education come with in order for the programme to be successful? That is why your Committee’s report is still recommending that the Government should consider introducing an education levy following the recommendation of the National Education Conference which was held in 2019. This was basically to just ensure that the funds which are allocated to the education sector are ring-fenced to ensure that there are no disruptions in the sector. We have seen classrooms that are overwhelmed with pupils but with no desks. So, now, we are working in reverse to try and address those challenges. We could have done better by planning and then implement after putting the enabling requirements in the schools.

Madam Speaker, the other concern was the issue of dismantling arrears to local suppliers. Let us finalise this chain of audit. The hon. Ministers come to this august House to inform us that his ministry had embarked on an audit to ascertain the performance of these contractors. Stakeholders have again expressed their concerns and they are saying, the local suppliers, during the period under review, were owed over K76 billion which affected most of the local businesses’ availability of liquidity in the economy. Stakeholders further noted that the Government had engaged Client Focus Solutions and PricewaterhouseCoopers Limited (PwC) to undertake an audit of the domestic debt at a cost of K16.8 million. However, the results of the audit have not yet been shared with the members of the public.

Madam Speaker, these people may have undertaken the audit and have had their share, but what about your local suppliers who have employed fellow Zambians? This is the money that should come back into the economy. Why do we not get the audit report so that we know because at the end of the day, not every supplier was or would be found wanting? The value of the money that the Government owes them will not be the same by the time it pays them. It is very important that we feel for our fellow citizens.

Madam Speaker, therefore, I am pleading with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that he should take a look at his fellow citizens, whose money the Government has been holding. The audits have been done. Let us know, so that those who have genuinely done business with the Government are given their money because it will come back into the economy. Holding on to their money is not a solution, because at the end of the day, they will have to be paid.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity to respond to the report that has been undertaken by my former Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters.

Madam Speaker, to start with, I thank your Committee for the report that has been produced. There are some important points that have been raised in the report, which the Government shall, no doubt, be able to follow and those recommendations that we agree with, which are many, will be implemented, if we have the means.

Madam Speaker, I thank your Committee, once again, and all the hon. Members for the work done. Let me now comment on some of the issues that hon. Colleagues have been raising on the Floor of the House. The first of which is the credibility of the Budget which can be seen in two ways. The first aspect of credibility is if the Government revenues and expenditure are roughly on track. So, that is one aspect of credibility for a Government. I must say that for the first time since independence, the credibility of the 2022 Budget tops it all.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: No, I have to be frank and tell you. For the first time since independence, the credibility of the 2022 Budget tops the list. However, there is also another important aspect of credibility. This is credibility when answering the question; did you spend money in the areas which you said you were going to spend money on?

Madam Speaker, I say so because so many times in the past, the Budgets would state that money would be spent on this, but what used to be spent on was something completely different. Those hon. Members who were in the last Parliament will recall how year after year, we would allocate money for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). These were not large amounts of money, but moderate, of about K1.6 million. However, over that five-year period, we only received CDF – how many times? Some people received it twice and others three times. So, when you have budgeted for money but you do not release it, that is a clear indicator of lack of credibility.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, when we budgeted for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in 2022, 100 per cent of it was released in full.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: That is credibility.

Mr Mwiimbu: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, even for 2023, the CDF amount that we approved in December, the portion for the first quarter of 2023 has been released in full. That is credibility.

Hon. UPND Members: Correct! Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, we committed ourselves, under the 2022 Budget, to hiring 30,400 teachers. We made that commitment, but many of our colleagues, especially those on the left who are coming from a culture of not being credible in budgeting said teachers would not be hired and that the UPND Government was just deceiving the Country.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: No, sit down!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I am glad to say that all the 30,000 teachers plus and all the 11,000 health workers plus were …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

There is an indication for a point of order! What is your point of order hon. Member for Shiwang’andu? Let me announce that this is the last point of order because we have to make progress.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I raise this point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65 (1)(b).

Madam Speaker, we have this volume of your Committee’s report before us and it is very detailed. We expected the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to come with a response that he was going to leave on the Floor instead of the copious notes he is using. Let us get serious with business. The hon. Minister is a senior Member.

Mr Amutike: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: You, keep quiet.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Members!

We want to make progress. What is the point of order? You can continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister, who is a senior a member, was a minister for three fiscal years under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy Regime (MMD). When he comes on the Floor of the House and says that the only time there has been credibility in the budget, since independence, is in 2022.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: What is the hon. Minister saying about those three fiscal years he served during the MMD is that all the budgets he brought here were not credible. We must have records set straight on the Floor of this august House, Madam Speaker.

Mr Amutike: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: You, Mongu, keep quiet! What is your problem?

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kampyongo: He is too loud, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we make progress.

Wind up your point of order, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in order to ignore your report, which is very clear, and opt to start politicking to the extent where he has even cast doubt on the budgets that he presented to this august House in the past?

I seek your serious guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I thank the hon. Member for that point of order. I am going to reserve my ruling so that I look at that matter in detail. So, I will come to this House at a later stage to render my ruling.

The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning may proceed.

Dr Musokotwane: I thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Indeed, the report is huge and the only way one can intelligently comment on it is by selecting certain aspects of it.

Mr Mwiimbu: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: That is how we do these things.

Madam Speaker, I was just commenting on the education sector, with respect to the credibility of the budget because colleagues across there were challenging us that this budget was not credible. So, I am giving examples of the credibility of that budget. Further, I was saying that when we said we would hire 30,000 teachers and 11,000 heath workers, they did not believe it because they are not used to credibility in the budget.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, however, that was delivered in full. There were other examples.

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Members! I have ruled that I am not going to take any more points of order.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kankoyo, please, we want to make progress.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have a lot of work before us, but we are running out of time. Can you, please, go back to your seat if you are disturbing others?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may continue, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, let me move on to the issue of the exchange rate, something that was commented upon by earlier speakers. Indeed, the exchange of the Kwacha has had some pressure. There is no doubt about it. However, I think I have explained before that the main cause of this exchange rate instability arises from the fact we have not yet concluded the debt restructuring. This is the debt that our colleagues left in the hands of this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: So, that debt has consequences. However, Madam Speaker, I am happy to say that we are getting there.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Sooner than later, the debt problem which they left for us will be resolved and the stability of the exchange rate will be assisted.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: On top of that, Madam Speaker, we know that to stabilise the exchange rate, we need foreign exchange in the country. Foreign exchange largely comes from the mining sector.

As you recall, Madam Speaker, in the last ten years, we had mines being closed rather than new ones opening, like we saw in other countries. The Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) was left cannibalised. Mopani Copper Mines was also left cannibalised.

Hon. PF Members: By who?

Dr Musokotwane: Of course, by the previous Government.

Hon. UPND Members: The PF!

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, the PF.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, to ensure that mining production is revived and that there is more foreign exchange in the country, I am happy to say that we have gone a long way in sorting out the problems of the two big mining companies. By the second half of this year, we should have full activity taking place in those mining companies.

Madam Speaker, a number of colleagues talked about the under budgeting of certain things. For example, I heard that rural electrification was under funded. When you do a budget, you make choices about where to put money; where to put less money; and where to put more money. Those are the choices that come with the budget. Now, in the case of this Government, it is aware that rural electrification is required. It is fully aware of that, but for now, the choices that we made, as a country, were to hire teachers, which we have done; to hire heath workers, which we have done; and to increase the CDF, which we have also done.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: So, Madam Speaker, –

The Hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can continue and conclude.

Dr Musokotwane: In conclusion, let us just understand that if certain areas received less money, it was because there was a choice that was made to put money in certain sectors that were more desirable or more critical.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kankoyo was ordered to go back to his seat.

Hon. Mabeta went back to his seat.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, in winding up debate, let me thank my hon. Colleagues of the Committee, who worked very hard to produce this report. I want to thank Hon. Chonde for seconding the Motion. I also want to recognise the input by Hon. Kafwaya, Hon. Mtayachalo, Hon. Kampyongo, Hon. Mutinta and of course, the hon. Minister. Just to put the record straight, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) was fully-funded because it sits under the Ministry of Energy. The concern of your Committee is that there was a low burn rate. In fact, I am happy that Hon. Kampyongo alluded to the figures.So, the issue is really not about low funding but them failing to utilise the funds which were given to them. I thought I should just put that on record.

Madam Speaker, lastly, I would like to indicate that I have been a member of this Committee for seven years now. In the years 2022 and part of 2021, we have seen that in terms of funding, the ministries are either at 100 per cent even over 100 per cent unlike it was before. So, this is a good milestone. I therefore, thank all the hon. Members who debated on this Motion. I also thank you, Madam Speaker, once again, for giving us this opportunity to work as a Committee on Planning and Budgeting.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

_______

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE NATIONAL PENSION SCHEME (Amendment) BILL, 2023

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE RURAL ELECTRIFICATION BILL, 2023

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation).

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, the gestures by the hon. Members on your right show me that hon. Members do not seem to know what you are reading.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Yes! If I were to ask them what section 2, which the Chairperson has just announced says, –

Ms Mulenga: There is no amendment.

Mr Mung’andu: The Bill is supposed to be circulated to the hon. Members, so that we can move with you, Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: We already have the Bill!

Mr Mung’andu: No!  Procedurally, that is what we have been doing. So, help us –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

May you resume your seat.

Hon. Members, these Bills have no amendments, apparently. Those of you who have been here long enough are supposed to educate others.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: These Bills do not have amendments. These are procedural notes.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Chama South, are we together?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Are we together?

Hon Opposition Members: Yes!

The Deputy Chairperson: The Leader of the Opposition, are we together?

Mr Mundubile: Mr Chairperson, we are now together. Reluctantly, I have decided to follow you.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you. We are on Clause 2. Let me repeat.

Clauses 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30 ordered to stand part of Bill.

Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendments:

The National Pension Scheme Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2023

The Rural Electrification Bill, 2023

Third Readings on Friday, 24^th March, 2023.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1807 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 24^th March, 2023.

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