Wednesday, 22^nd March, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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Madam Speaker: Can we settle down. Hon. Members on my right, I am tired of bowing to empty benches. Can we improve on the attendance. The benches are empty.

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF NAMIBIA

Madam Speaker: I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following Members of the National Council of Namibia Standing Committee on Agriculture, Environment and Natural Resources, and staff from the Parliament of Namibia:

            Hon. Elder Filipe, MP                                    Vice-Chairperson of the

                                                                                    Committee

            Hon. Nicodemus Motinga, MP                       Member

            Hon. Paulus Mbangu, MP                              Member

            Hon. Richard Gaoseb, MP                              Member

            Hon. Joram Haoseb, MP                                 Member

            Ms Dorothy Fransman                                    Deputy Director

            Mr Immanuel Kooper                                     Deputy Director

            Mr Brian Riruako                                            Parliamentary Clerk.

I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them in our midst.

Thank you.

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RULINGS BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED ON FRIDAY, 10^TH MARCH, 2023, BY MR R. C. MUTALE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHITAMBO CONSTITUENCY AGAINST HON. C MULENGA, MP, MINISTER OF COMMERCE, TRADE AND INDUSTRY, FOR ALLEGEDLY RAISING THE UNITED PARTY FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT (UPND) SYMBOL IN THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have two rulings to make. The first one relates to a point of order that was raised on Friday, 10^th March, 2023, by Mr R. C. Mutale, hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo Constituency, against Hon. C. Mulenga, MP, Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, for allegedly raising the United Party for National Development (UPND) symbol in the House.

Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Friday, 10^th March, 2023, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 192, and the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, Hon. C. Milupi, MP, was about to respond to the question, Mr R. Mutale, hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo Constituency, raised a point of order. The point of order was made pursuant to Standing Order No. 204(2)(j) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, which states, in part, as follows:

“204. Parliamentary Decorum and Etiquette

(2) A member shall observe the following rules of parliamentary etiquette:

(j) A member shall not shout political party slogans or display political flags, emblems or any such articles in the House.”

In his point of order, Mr R. C. Mutale, MP, inquired whether Hon. C. Mulenga, MP, Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, was in order to raise the United Party for National Development (UPND) symbol in the House.

Hon. Members, in her immediate response, the hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker reserved her ruling in order to study the matter. I have since studied the matter and will now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, in order to ascertain whether Hon. C. Mulenga, MP, had indeed displayed the UPND symbol, as alleged, I had recourse to the verbatim record and relevant video footage for the proceedings of Friday, 10^th March, 2023.

Hon. Members, neither the verbatim record nor the video footage captured Hon. C. Mulenga, MP, raising the UPND symbol in the House as alleged by Mr R. Mutale, MP. In this regard, there is no evidence that Hon. C. Mulenga, MP, raised the UPND symbol. He was, therefore, not out of order.

I thank you.

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR M. F. FUBE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHILUBI CONSTITUENCY, AGAINST MR R. M. CHABINGA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MAFINGA CONSTITUENCY, FOR ALLEGEDLY BEING ABSENT FROM THE SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the next ruling relates to the point of order raised by Mr M. F. Fube, hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi Constituency, against Mr R. M. Chabinga, hon. Member of Parliament for Mafinga Constituency, for allegedly being absent from sittings of the House.

Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Friday, 14^th October, 2022, when the House was debating the 2023 Budget Address, and Ms E. Munashabantu, hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya Constituency’s time to debate had just expired, Mr M. F. Fube, hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi Constituency, raised a point of order.

Mr M. F. Fube, MP’s point of order, which was against Mr R. M. Chabinga, hon. Member of Parliament for Mafinga Constituency, was premised on Standing Order No. 210 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021.

Standing Order No. 210 provides as follows:

“210. (1)     If, during a Session, a member is absent for four consecutive Sittings of the Assembly without permission, in writing, from the Government Chief Whip or the Speaker, the Government Chief Whip shall report the matter to the Committee on Privileges and Absences for hearing and determination.

(2)     If the committee finds that the member has offered a satisfactory explanation for the member’s absence from Sittings of the Assembly, there shall be no further proceedings on the matter.

(3)     If the committee finds that the member has not offered a satisfactory explanation for the member’s absence from Sittings of the Assembly, the committee shall, through the Speaker, report to the House recommending appropriate action to be taken against the member.”

Mr M. F. Fube, MP, stated that, in line with Standing Order No. 210, an hon. Member of Parliament was only permitted to be absent from sittings of the House, with prior permission from the Government Chief Whip.

In that regard, Mr M. F. Fube, MP, stated that he had observed that Mr R. M. Chabinga, MP, had only attended sittings of the House on four occasions, from September 2021 to the date of the point of order. He, therefore, enquired whether certain hon. Members had special exemptions and what the status of Mr R. M. Chabinga, MP, was.

Hon. Members, in response to the point of order, the hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker, reserved her ruling to facilitate investigations into the matter.

Hon. Members, in investigating the matter, I had recourse to the attendance registers for the period in question. A perusal of the registers revealed that Mr R. M. Chabinga, MP, was absent for a total of six consecutive sitting days from 4^th to 12^th October, 2022.

Hon. Members, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, on 24^th November, 2022, the Office of the Clerk wrote to Hon. S. Mulusa, Government Chief Whip, informing him of Mr R. M. Chabinga, MP’s absence from the House. Hon. S. Mulusa, MP, was further informed that in view of Mr R. M. Chabinga, MP’s absence, he was, in accordance with Standing Order No. 210(1), required to report the matter to the Chairperson of the Committee on Privileges and Absences, for hearing and determination.

In response, by a letter dated 14^th March, 2023, Hon. S. Mulusa, MP, informed the Office of the Clerk that his office had received a sick note from Coptic Hospital dated 4^th October 2022. It indicated that Mr R. M. Chabinga, MP, was recommended to be off duty for the period 4^th to 12^th October, 2022.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: He attached the sick note to the letter.

 

Hon. Members, in the light of the response from the Office of the Government Chief Whip, it is evident that Mr R. M. Chabinga, MP, had permission to be away from the House during the period in question as he was indisposed. He was, therefore, not out of order.

Thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as you raise matters of urgent public importance, look at the criteria. Always ask yourself a question –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Can we listen to the guidance.

As you raise matters of urgent public importance, please, ask yourselves what catastrophe will occur if the Government does not take the action immediately.

 

We start with the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON MR MTOLO, HON. MINSTER OF AGRICULTURE, ON MILLERS IN PETAUKE NOT HAVING BEEN SUPPLIED WITH MAIZE BY THE GOVERNMENT

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central, through me, the opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance, under Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Just speak calmly, hon. Member.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Otherwise, our ears are going to burst. You may procced with your matter.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, the matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Agriculture. The Government gave a directive to all millers to buy maize from the Government to cushion the shortage of mealie meal in our country, including Petauke. However, the good people of Petauke, especially the millers in Petauke and other districts, have not been given that chance to buy maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) so that they can also sell to the locals.

Madam Speaker, in Petauke, as I am talking right now, all the millers do not have maize. They applied to buy maize but since they applied, not a single miller has been given maize to offload on the market. The people do not have where to buy maize and mealie meal. We also do not have the Zambia National Service (ZNS). In other areas, the ZNS has been selling mealie meal to communities.

Madam Speaker, the workers of the millers are sitting without jobs and as a result, they are not going to be paid. If this continues, the people in my constituency, Petauke Central Constituency, will die of hunger. This will also happen in other parts of the country where millers have not been given the chance to buy maize from the Government and offload it to the communities.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence before the people in Petauke Central die of hunger.

Madam Speaker: Okay. Thank you very much. I was going to say that you should put in a question, but I see that the hon. Minister of Agriculture is anxiously waiting to answer the question. So, let the hon. Minister of Agriculture respond.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, I thank you in that the question raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central is so important not only for Petauke Central but for the entire country.

Madam Speaker, right now, I would like the hon. Members in the House to appreciate that all the neighbouring states of Zambia, including other areas that are maize-consuming, are looking at Zambia as the major source of non-genetically modified (GM) grade one maize. We are therefore under a lot of stress to protect the national food security of Zambia. If we are going to be careless, all our stock is going to run out and you, hon. Members, will be on the Government saying that the Government has been careless with the stock which it has had, good quantity of stock which the Zambian farmers sold to the agency.

Madam Speaker, number one, the hon. Members in the House should know that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) was not created to be a stock keeper for millers. They should ask the millers why they do not have maize in their stores. That is the first point. The second point is that we have given millers export permits, and I want to repeat: we will not stop giving export permits but we will regulate them at the ministry.

Hon. Colleagues in this House, it should be our responsibility to ensure that the cross-border trade which is undocumented is checked. In Petauke, there is a lot of movement of mealie meal and maize from the so-called millers into other states. When the maize runs out, it will be the same Hon. Banda who will be saying “We have no maize. What has the Government done?” As a collective here, we need to protect the food security of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, right now, there is an article in the press where one miller has had a lot of maize and mealie meal picked in a ship which is destined outside the country and some of it was transported on rail destined outside the country. This is because of the careless pronouncements we are making encouraging millers to buy maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) without checking where that maize is going.

Madam Speaker, I am asking –

Interruptions

Mr Mtolo: I take that as a joke because the hon. Member who came in is a very senior hon. Member, and I think he will appreciate what I am saying. I wish not to be disrespectful because he is a very senior hon. Member of the House.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I am so grateful for giving me chance to speak because through that question from Hon. J. E. Banda other people should know that as a Government, we are extremely worried and concerned about the cross-border trade that is going on. We have given maize, continuously, to millers. So, why is there a shortage of mealie meal? That is what we should be answering instead of hon. Members coming to this House and championing a statement which they cannot justify and verify. I sat with the hon. Member yesterday, and I told him that instead of us giving you maize to give to small millers, why can you not allow us to open up community sales so that people in Petauke can access the maize and grind it. I, therefore, encourage him to write, if there are no community sales in his constituency, so that we can go ahead with the programme. We have two months before the harvest, and we should be careful, otherwise, Zambia will run out of maize.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda rose.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, can you, please, resume your seat. A point of order is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament are guided by our Standing Orders in relation to the manner of speech. I have listened to the responses from the hon. Minister of Agriculture. He has gone to the extent of threatening that he will choose whether to be disrespectful or not. Furthermore, the hon. Minister of Agriculture rubbishes the statement made that it is careless.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Agriculture in order to use the language that he has used today? He is seemingly a very annoyed man who has gone as far as threatening that he is going to be disrespectful. This House is a House of honour and dignity. We are guided that you cannot threaten to be disrespectful against other hon. Members. Is the hon. Minister of Agriculture in order to come and threaten that at some point, he is going to be disrespectful?

Hon UPND Member: Just sit!

Mr B. Mpundu: Iwe yateke panshi. Can you behave.

Madam Speaker, I need your guidance. Is the hon. Minister of Agriculture in order to threaten that at some point, he is going to be vulgar? I seek your indulgence.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Ms Mulenga: E Binwell Mpundu uyu.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nkana, as you were raising a point of order, you were, again, pointing fingers at other hon. Members. As we raise points of order, let us do it in a respectful manner. Further, as we respond, we should do it in a respectful manner.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I know some – are you listening to me or what?

Hon. Members: We are listening.

Madam Speaker: Please, let us learn to co-exist peacefully with one another. Let us always measure the way we speak to each other and remain respectful. Of course, there are unparliamentary words that cannot be used, but sometimes, the tone we use can be injurious to other hon. Members. So, let us learn to co-exist as we talk to each other, as we ask questions and answer question. So, I cannot judge the mood in which the hon. Minister was when he was talking about that issue of maize. However, I can see that it is a matter that has been burning. He wants to make sure that the people of Zambia are well informed. So, maybe, we can bear with him on that.

We have some interventions. Of course, today is Wednesday, and we have a loaded order of proceedings. So, I will allow five interventions in the manner in which they were presented. I will start with hon. Member for Nalolo.

MR WAMUNYIMA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NALOLO, ON MR MTOLO, HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, ON WHAT EXPORT PERMIT THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING AND HOW IT IS AFFECTING THE COUNTRY’S FOOD SECURITY

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister was on the Floor, I was not clear with his statement. I just want to understand what exports the Government is currently allowing with regard to maize. Is it maize or mealie meal? What export permits is the Government giving and how is this affecting our food security because the price of maize has continued to sky rocket?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, my apologies if I appeared to be disrespectful. There is no way I can beat Hon. Kampyongo.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, at first, the Government of the Republic of Zambia through the Ministry of Agriculture was giving maize export permits. However, from the time we stopped selling maize to traders, we have been allowing some mealie meal exports by millers. That is because it is important for the millers to also benefit from the very good price which is outside our borders. However, as long as it is through the ministry, it is controlled. What moves our blood is that which is not through the ministry and that is what has become rampant. Small quantities are going out on bicycles, motor cycles and in vans, and by the end of the day, it is so much mealie meal that goes out and very difficult to control. This is where we are calling for concerted efforts. This issue is apolitical. It is important for everyone to get involved so that we can reduce the quantities of maize going out in an unregulated fashion.

Madam Speaker, Zambia cannot stop exports of mealie meal to certain neighbours. It is a must that we give them some mealie meal, and we do it in a regulated manner.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to ask a follow-up question on this very important matter.

Madam Speaker, before I even ask the question, I do not know what offence the millers of Petauke committed for them to be accused of –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Just ask your question. Remember what I said; let us learn to co-exist. Do not accuse the hon. Minister. Just ask your question.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. However, the hon. Minister of Agriculture is on record accusing the millers of Petauke that they are selling mealie meal outside Petauke, yet he has never given them any allocation of maize. So, I do not know if that maize came from Jesus or what, I do not know what he is saying.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture said in order to control the price of mealie meal, the Government was going to give millers maize whose price had gone up to K300. In Petauke right now, I think the price has come down and mealie meal is now being sold at K280. That is also aimed at maintaining jobs for the workers at the milling company. Now, the hon. Minister has said the Government wants to start conducting community sales. However, there are some people who do not know where hammer mills are. Is the ministry going to buy the maize, make mealie meal and then sell it to the community? What is the Government going to do?

Madam Speaker: That is what passion can do.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Banda for that very good question.

Madam Speaker, may I let this House know that right now, we are working on a programme where our commercial farmers are going to grow early maturing maize, specifically for export to countries that are trying to get maize from Zambia. Now, it is connected to the question asked. It is important that he knows that we are doing that. It is connected because the demand for mealie meal which we are seeing is actually not internal. This demand is external. Right now, Shoprite Chipata has run out of mealie meal because people on bicycles are buying it and heading in one direction where they are making a K100 or so on top of the buying price. That is what is happening everywhere. Now, I am not accusing millers of Petauke. It is actually a generalised position for millers and retailers in Zambia. The people who are buying mealie meal from millers are taking it outside the country. My plea is: Instead of looking at issues in a micro manner, let us look at the bigger picture. Let us, as hon. Members of Parliament, stop this wanton trade across borders which is unregulated and without papers.

No matter what we do, Hon. Banda, through Madam Speaker, even if we offloaded 1,000 bags of mealie meal in Petauke today, in the next one hour, the mealie meal will be gone because it is going outside the country. That is what is happening. So, we need to check that.

Now, in as far as millers in Petauke are concerned, Madam Speaker, Petauke is well supplied with mealie meal by millers from Lusaka and Chipata. We have also been selling maize to traders and millers in Petauke. So, maybe, it is important at this juncture for Hon. J. E. Banda to come to the office so that I can show him evidence that we have sold maize to people who claim to be millers in Petauke.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I have heard and I am encouraging the hon. Member to come to the office so that we look at the issue in detail.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, please, do engage with the hon. Minister to see how you can come to some understanding on that matter.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I was listening very attentively to the responses by the hon. Minister in charge of agriculture. In his responses, on one hand, he has informed this House that permits will continue to be issued. On another, he is worried that no matter how much maize and mealie meal is offloaded, it will still cross the border.

Madam Speaker, the role of the hon. Minister is to give a policy statement so that we are all guided. What is the official position of the Government; are we allowing exports or we are going to ensure that we deal with the local demand for maize that we have within our confines?

I think it is important that the hon. Minister gives us a general policy statement on what the position of the Government is. Are we continuing issuing permits or we are going to disadvantage those that want to have the local demand satisfied?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the answer to that, let me make it as clear as I can, is yes. The Government policy is that we shall never ever stop export of mealie meal, and where it is absolutely necessary, maize. We have sufficient stock. If it is done in a regulated manner, we have no problem. However, where it is unregulated, then we have a very big problem. That is why I am saying: Can we all rise to this challenge, as hon. Members of Parliament, to ensure that the unregulated cross-border trade, commonly known as smuggling, is reduced.

Madam Speaker, may I end by making it abundantly clear that the Government of the Republic of Zambia, under the New Dawn Administration, will not stop the export of mealie meal.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress. Please, like I guided earlier, we have a lot of work. You have already spoken hon. Member for Petauke Central. Can we allow others.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Please, just wait. Let us allow other hon. Members to ask.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, not long ago, the ministry opened the floodgates by allowing people to get permits to export this precious stock, which is maize. Now, the hon. minister has come back to say people cannot export anymore although he says the Government never stopped giving out permits. My question is: Could the hon. Minister, categorically, tell the nation whether we are food secure in terms of the metric tonnes that we have out there that will see us reach the next harvest season?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, again, may I use this opportunity to let the nation know, firstly, that as we stand, today, Zambia has sufficient stock to take us to the next harvest. There is absolutely no need for fear.

Madam Speaker, secondly, the Government of Zambia will not stop exports as long as they are done in an appropriate and legal manner.

Madam Speaker, thirdly, if one is found selling maize across the border without documentation, one will forfeit one’s stock, and if unlucky, even the transport used. So, there is no need for people to export without documentation. They should go to the ministry. That way, they will assist us to know exactly how much is going out. However, those who are trying to export on their own will end up like that one who has been caught in Mpulungu today. They will lose that stock and be charged. There is no need for that.

Madam Speaker, in terms of tonnage, we have not less than 400,000 metric tonnes of maize. So, we have sufficient stock to take us to the new harvest.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kaumbwe.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, mine is a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam Speaker: No, let us just exhaust this one.

Dr Mwanza: Oh, we exhaust this one?

Madam Speaker: If it is a matter of urgent public importance, only three had been raised and the list was closed. We were just addressing this issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

What I am seeing here are indications to ask questions to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. That is where we are now. The last question will come from the hon. Member for Chitambo.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, this morning, with your courtesy, we attended a very important session where Parliament launched a Strategic Plan. In that session, there was some sketch or drama that indicated that there are a lot of things that we do here at Parliament, but are not very consistent in terms of making it known to the general public out there. The hon. Minister has told the House and the general public that the Government has actually given or sold some maize to millers. This information is not very much available …

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

Mr Mutale: … to the public out there and that is why people are coming here to ask these questions. Why can the hon. Minister not make public this information on radio and television or even issue a ministerial statement in the House so that people know which millers have been given maize and where, so that when they overcharge, we can also help the hon. Minister to manage the prices?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Agriculture, do you have any response?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member will be happy to note that at the Ministry of Agriculture, every Wednesday, we hold a press briefing. Of the many issues we discuss, matters of maize sales are always there. What we do not do, however, is to stipulate which miller has been sold what.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Justice if I can be mentioning names of millers to indicate the quantity sold to them because those are private transactions, and I can end up making a very serious trade mistake. However, I hear what the hon. Member is saying and we will try to see how we can improve on the dissemination of information.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I also see that there is a lot of interest in this issue. Many hon. Members want to ask questions, but there are many ways in which issues like this can be dealt with. One way is by the hon. Minister of Agriculture inviting hon. Members of Parliament to go and see the maize stock that he is saying is sufficient to carry us to the next rainy season. When the hon. Minister was saying that we have sufficient stocks, I could hear the hon. Members doubt. So, the best way is to interact. Hon. Minister of Agriculture, invite your colleagues, the hon. Members to go and visit so that they can be satisfied.

Mr Kapyanga indicated.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, what is the issue?

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity –

Madam Speaker: No! Do you want to raise a point of order or what?

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, it is a point of order.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the country has sufficient maize. If we have sufficient maize, the end result should be us having sufficient mealie meal which is the end product of maize.

Madam Speaker, to the contrary, our people across the country including Mpika, are queuing up for mealie meal. If we had sufficient maize, why do we have high prices and shortage of mealie meal in most parts of the country?

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister, therefore, in order to mislead the nation when on the ground, the situation is very different from what he is talking about?

Madam Speaker, the people out there are suffering. They are queuing up for high priced mealie meal but the hon. Minister is telling the nation that we have sufficient maize. In the actual sense, the hon. Minister knows that very few bags are remaining, if at all they are even there.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are now debating your point of order.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. Is he in order, therefore, to mislead the nation that we have sufficient maize when he knows what is happening in the ground?

Madam Speaker: If the hon. Member followed what I said just before we closed the segment, I said that the hon. Minister of Agriculture should engage the hon. Members and invite them to go and see the sufficient stocks that he is talking about so that they can be satisfied. That is what I said.  So now, you are raising a point of order after I had already guided.

Hon. Member for Mpika, you are out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: So, I will leave it to the hon. Minister of Agriculture to ensure – Please, hon. Minister of Agriculture, ensure that hon. Members go and see the challenges that you have if any, and the stocks that you have. You can respond, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I think this is a very important and serious matter. Let me repeat what I had said.

Madam Speaker, Zambia has sufficient stock of maize for its people and for other use but its neighbouring states do not have maize. As a consequence, they are coming into Zambia to get our maize and mealie meal. I do not know how else I can put this point across. When mealie meal is off loaded in Mpika, instead of the consumers, the residents of Mpika, buying it and cooking their meals, they are buying it and taking it across the border because they are making more money by selling it. That is what is happening everywhere as long as it is along the border. I think this point should not be under played or brought into politics because our maize, if I am continuously forced to give the millers, will finish. It can finish in one day. There is so much demand around us.

Madam Speaker, this is an important thing and I am appealing to the House to know that is what is happening. It is incumbent upon us to check that the smuggling, the cross-border trade is limited.

Madam Speaker, thank you once more for allowing me to say something on this point of order.

Madam Speaker: hon. Members would want to know whether they are welcome to come and visit you.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, they are extremely welcome. Our office is open and I am here. They are free to come so that we chat and I show them the figures. However, it is their responsibility to go and see the stock as civic leaders, just as it is their responsibility to check if those companies supplying fertiliser have fertiliser and are producing it in the country. We should have the interest to go and check. The sheds are open. In Kalulushi, ...

Ms Mulenga: There is nothing!

Mr Mtolo: ... Monze, Solwezi and wherever, they are there. Not all sheds have maize, but wherever there is maize, they are free to go and check. In Kalulushi, there is maize. Go and see.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: That issue has been closed.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, what is the point of order?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 202, on the privileges of the hon. Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I indicated for a point of order but I was not allowed. What I know is that an hon. Member is entitled to two questions, if it is –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

As you enjoy your privileges, know that there are limitations in those privileges. The Standing Order you are referring to does not allow you to challenge a Presiding Officer. So, you are trying to challenge the Presiding Officer. If you look at the Standing Orders, you will find that there is a procedure of how a decision of a Presiding Officer can be challenged. Please, let us acquaint ourselves with the Standing Orders. Can we make progress.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this opportunity rise on a matter of urgent public importance in line with Standing Order No. 134.

Madam Speaker, my colleague, the hon. Member for Petauke Central, took words out of my mouth, through the matter he raised. Nevertheless, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry. It relates to the suffering of the Zambians, many of whom are losing lives because of the high cost of living.

Madam Speaker, your people in this country, the poor people of Zambia, are losing lives because of the high cost of living, the high cost of food such as mealie meal and maize, the high cost of transportation, the high cost of medical care, the high cost of fuel –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us respect the Presiding Officers. There will be no exchange of words from one side to the other. Let us allow each hon. Member to raise a point or debate without any interruption in accordance with our Standing Orders. Please, let us adhere to the Standing Orders.

Hon. Member for Lunte, you may proceed.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I indicated the high cost of fuel. Lastly, let me indicate the high cost of the dollar.

Madam Speaker, this is the time, the Zambian people, particularly the poor Zambians, expect measures to be promulgated by both the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry demonstrating how the high cost of living will be managed. Alas, every day, we hear the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) indicating to us that the trend of the dollar can only go up. Two days ago, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning announced that it will cost Zambians more to travel along the Ndola/Lusaka Road, even before the road is worked on. These announcements are causing the poor Zambians, who are already suffering, to have high blood pressure. Is this not the time my colleagues, particularly the two hon. Ministers, should begin to offer hope –

Madam Speaker: What is the matter of urgent public importance? We do not have the whole day, hon. Member.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, of course, the matter is known. I seek your indulgence so that the two hon. Ministers can start giving hope as opposed to telling people that it will be more expensive to live in this country as if there are personal interests in issues –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Do not debate. Just raise your matter of urgent public importance. Once you debate then hon. Members on the other side will be forced to debate. Let us manage the way we talk to each other. However, concerning the matter you have raised, first of all, it is a process. It is a long-term thing and the Government is aware. Of course, people are suffering from the consequences of the high cost of living but if the Government does not do anything today, what catastrophe will happen?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I am not asking you. You can answer quietly, but I am not saying you should respond. In that regard, there is no measure that can be taken today to stop the high cost of living. I advise you, hon. Member, to put in an urgent question and the matter will be addressed by the hon. Minister. The matter does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. So, you are free to put in a question and it will be addressed.

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON MRS NALUMANGO, HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, CONCERNING THE IMPENDING DISASTER

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to rise is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, we have an impending disaster at the temporally bridge across the Luangwa River on the Chama/Matumbo Road following the heavy rainfall we had in the district. The bridge has massive erosions from both sides, as one is coming from Chinsali and as one is leaving Chama. This bridge is temporally and has outlived its lifespan, or in short, it is on the verge of collapsing. Therefore, Chama is about to be cut off from Muchinga Province and Copperbelt Province, to mention but a few. It is important to realise that Chama has been realigned from Muchinga Province to the Eastern Province, and there are now five wards, which are across the Luangwa River and –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, just raise your matter of urgent public importance. Do not debate.

Mr Mtayachalo: Thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, if urgent measures are not taken, we may have a disaster. No one is controlling how people are crossing that particular bridge. The situation is so desperate such that anything can happen, especially to motorists and other road users.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The matter that you have raised is important and, of course, we do not want to risk the lives of the people. However, when a situation like that arises, it is incumbent upon you, hon. Member for Chama North, to immediately engage Her Honour the Vice-President, so that the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) can quickly go to the area and put in place remedial measures. Now to wait and rise the matter in the House does not help your people in Chama North. Please, hon. Member, engage Her Honour the Vice-President to ensure that remedial measures are put in place for the benefit of the people. That would be more helpful than raising the matter on the Floor.

DR MWANZA, HON. MEMBER FOR KAUMBWE, ON MR LUFUMA, THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE, CONCERNING THE SOLDIERS IN KAUMBWE CONSITUENCY

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the Minister of Defence.

Madam Speaker, Kaumbwe Constituency –

Madam Speaker: Sorry I did not hear. Who is it directed to?

Dr Mwanza: The hon. Minister of Defence.

Madam Speaker: Okay.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, there are soldiers in Kaumbwe Constituency, specifically at Gonde Barracks. Their camp is at the heart or rather in the built area of Mwanjabantu, which is basically in Kaumbwe Ward. The soldiers were deployed there in May, 2021. We appreciate the Government’s efforts of protecting the citizens from internal and external aggression. Bearing in mind that Kaumbwe Constituency shares a border with Mozambique, the nearest police station is 50 km from Petauke Central in Petauke District.

Madam Speaker, the conduct of the soldiers leaves much to be desired. Last week, a rabid dog entered the camp in search of food because –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member of Kaumbwe, those are now stories. Can you raise your matter of urgent public importance.

Laughter

Dr Kaumbwe: Madam Speaker, a rabid dog entered the camp and a soldier tried to kill it with a gun.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Please, as guided, raise your matter of urgent public importance precisely. That issue of a rabid dog is as if you are telling us a fairy tale or a story.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: So, we are going to sleep soon because the story is becoming like those bedtime stories. Please, get to the point. Raise your matter of urgent public importance.

Mrs Chonya: Eeh! What is the issue?

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, what happened to be a sweet story ended up being a sour story because when the soldier was trying to hit the dog ...

Mrs Chonya: The story continues!

Dr Mwanza: ... he shot a fifteen-year old boy on the pelvic and the bullet is stuck. Right now, the victim is in hospital.

Madam Speaker, the conduct of the soldiers is not good because they impose a curfew every day, starting at 9 o’clock. So, my point of –

Madam Speaker: Order!

From what you are saying, hon. Member, I think just put in a question to the hon. Minister of Defence because the issue that you are talking about looks to have been a continuous process of events that occurred. A matter of urgent public importance must be a matter of recent occurrence. So, please, put in a question. Maybe it is the way you structure your questions. When you talk too much and bring in too many things, the matter will then be automatically disqualified.

We close the segment of matters of urgent public importance. Let us make progress.

_______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

VIOLENCE RECORDED DURING YOUTH AND WOMEN’S DAY CELEBRATIONS ALLEGEDLY PERPETRATED BY SUSPECTED UNITED PARTY FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT CADRES

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, let me thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a ministerial statement on three matters of urgent public importance raised by hon. Members of Parliament. The first one was raised by Hon. Christopher Kang’ombe, Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa Constituency, regarding violence during Women’s and Youth Day celebrations.  The second was raised by Hon. Phillimon Twasa, Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa Constituency on the United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres threatening violence on Patriotic Front (PF) members. The third was raised by Hon. Anthony Kasandwe, Member of Parliament for Bangweulu Constituency on UPND cadres perpetrating violence against women and harassing civil servants.

Madam Speaker, in the last decade, the nation witnessed a particularly vicious type of violence that manifested itself each time there were national events. The violence was perpetrated by people with purely selfish and destructive intentions without a genuine cause.  Such people did not mean well for good governance and democracy. They aim was to instill fear in the masses for their own ill-intended motives. Such actions stood in stark contrast to the morals and values that we have chosen to uphold as a nation.

Madam Speaker, using violence as a means of achieving one’s desires is both impractical and immoral. I am mindful of the fact that violence often brings about momentary results. Political parties have frequently achieved victories using violence. However, in spite of temporary victories, violence never brings permanent peace nor does it solve any socio-economic problems. Violence is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win their understanding. It seeks to annihilate rather than convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love. It destroys communities and makes brotherhood impossible. Violence leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue.

Madam Speaker, there is hope in sight for a violence-free Zambia. The New Dawn Administration has clearly signaled its commitment to ending violence, improving governance and promoting civil rights and freedoms. That has been made clear through our courageous confrontation of the evil vices under the able leadership of His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema who has denounced violence at any given opportunity and taken a tough line on violence in all its forms, regardless of the political affiliation of the perpetrator. The President has directed all law enforcement agencies to be professional in the discharge of their duties in this regard.

Madam Speaker, violence never brings permanent peace. The nation, hon. Members and leadership of political parties, have an opportunity to reflect on the violence we experienced at the hands of cadres from the PF in the past years including the many ills it brought to peace-loving Zambians.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: We cannot go on that route.

Madam Speaker, violence must stop regardless of the affiliation of the perpetrators. As leaders, we have to stop violence in a collective effort. Violence is a vice that should be condemned by all peace-loving Zambians.

Madam Speaker, let me address the specific incidents raised by the hon. Members of Parliament. On 12^th March, 2023, around 12:30 hours, Ndola police recorded an incident of violence that erupted when suspected members from UPND and PF parties, who went to participate in youth day cerebrations clashed at Rekays Mall, along Independence Avenue, before the march past commenced.

Brief facts are that on 12^th March, 2023, youths from different political parties, non–governmental organisations (NGOs) and youths from all walks of life gathered at the cenotaph located near Adult Education Centre, in Ndola. As the youths were preparing for the march past, confusion erupted when suspected PF members started moving towards the suspected UPND members. This resulted in a clash between the suspected youths of the two parties. Police managed to separate the two parties. However, while the police were implementing measures to curb the violence, suspected PF members became more violent and started pelting police officers …

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: … with assorted objects and blocked President Avenue with different objects. Investigations are on-going and no suspects have been arrested so far.

Madam Speaker, on the same day, around 11:00 hours, in Kitwe District, Wusakile Police Station recorded four reports of malicious damage to property in which property, whose value has not yet been established, was damaged by suspected cadres clad in PF and UPND regalia. The report indicates that the damaged properties included: a mini-mart at Wusakile Puma Filling Station, which had five glass panes broken; a silver Nissan X-Trail motor vehicle bearing registration No. AID 218M, which had its rear windscreen and left side mirror broken; a gray Toyota Land Cruiser registration No. AOB 1113, which had its left side passenger door glass broken, and House No. C3110, in Wusakile Police Camp, which had two glass panes broken. One suspect has been arrested and charged for the offense of causing malicious damage to property.

Madam Speaker, Wusakile Police Station also recorded three other reports of cases injurious to persons that included one case of unlawful wounding in which a female Kalulushi resident sustained a cut on her left arm after which she was assaulted and wounded by persons she can identify. Investigations have been instituted, and so far, five suspects have been arrested. One has been charged with the offence of unlawful wounding, while the other four have been charged with the offence of assault occasioning actual bodily harm. All the suspects have been released on police bond and will appear in court soon.

In another case, Madam Speaker, a female resident of Kawama Township in Kitwe sustained a broken right leg after falling into a drainage amid the confusion. Her conduction is reported to be stable, so far. In the other case, a worker at Puma Energy Filling Station sustained a cut on the upper lip after being hit with a stone by an unknown person.

Madam Speaker, brief facts surrounding these reports are that around 1000 hours, members from political parties, mainly the Patriotic Front (PF) and the United Party for National Development (UPND) gathered at Wusakile roundabout to be part of the Youth Day celebrations. Later at around 1100 hours, a fight ensued between a suspected male PF member and a suspected male UPND sympathiser. The identity of the two suspects has not yet been established. The alleged UPND sympathiser was hit, …

Mr E. Tembo interjected.

Hon. PF Member: Ba yama, UPND sympathiser?

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: The alleged UPND sympathiser was hit on the head with a stone. When that happened, many youths from the two parties got involved and confusion arose. The two camps started stoning each other leading to the recorded damage to property and injuries to persons.

Madam Speaker, with regard to a video circulating on social media in which a man claiming to be from the UPND has threatened to beat up any PF member attending national events or anyone found wearing PF party regalia on the Copperbelt. The police have opened an enquiry file for proposing violence and the persons identified in the video have been summoned for questioning, …

Ms Mulenga: Kangwa!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I had warned the people on the right not to shout whilst an hon. Member or the hon. Minister is on the Floor. Please, hon. Members on the left, do not shout exchanges or interject while the hon. Minister is giving a ministerial statement. Otherwise, you will be called upon to render your own ministerial statement.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, let me remind all political players that the democracy that Zambia is enjoying today comes with a high sense of responsibility prescribed in our statutes. It is, therefore, important that individuals and political parties are peaceful, tolerant of different political opinions and, above all, respect the rule of law. I urge all political players to compete on ideas to contribute towards the development of our country.

Madam Speaker, the new dawn administration shall not condone violence. Violence breeds violence. We believe that violence is perpetrated by those who harbour hatred. Hatred cannot drive out hatred. Only love can do that. We shall remain morally and practically committed to ending violence.

Madam Speaker, the Government is highly alert to manoeuvres by some unscrupulous people with intentions to dent the image of the New Dawn leadership and the UPND as a violent party, especially when there are national events. This should be stopped forthwith.  The Government has noted with great concern cases of violence that were recorded during the recent Youth Day celebrations, and will not fold arms and watch until the perpetrators account for their actions.

Madam Speaker, let me urge the Zambia Police Service to expeditiously bring all those involved to book regardless of political affiliation. In the same vein, I urge all victims of violence and the general public to report cases of violence to law enforcement officers.

Madam Speaker, in order to prevent violence, the Zambia Police Service is implementing measures intended to ensure that violence in all its manner and form comes to an end. Some of the measures include the following:

1. deploying additional police officers in areas where national events are being celebrated;
2. enhancing co-operation and understanding among members of the public, leaders of political parties as well as their party cadres;
3. conducting offline and online sensitisations to strengthen youths’ resistance to manipulation and violence, and to promote peaceful participation in national events;
4. reaching out to citizens using traditional media to broadcast peace education messages through public service announcements, drama and talk programmes;
5. enhancing crowd management control, particularly during national events;
6. engaging stakeholders on the importance of unity regardless of political, religious and ethnic groupings to avoid loss of life and damage to property;
7. sensitising the general public on the importance of upholding law and order; and
8. enhanced intelligence gathering.

Madam Speaker, let me warn all those perpetrating violence, specifically political party cadres, that they are not an exception to the provisions of the law. Perpetrators of violence will be dealt with regardless of political affiliation. Let me assure the nation through this august House that the New Dawn Administration is anchored on the rule of law, and will effectively manage the affairs of the nation.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Before we ask the questions, hon. Member for Feira, I do not know what prompted you to stand up and attempt to raise a point of order. By that conduct, you were in breach of Standing Order 132(2)(i) that specifically states that:

“A member shall not raise a point of order –

1. when a minister is delivering a ministerial statement on the Floor of the House.”

So, I do not know, hon. Member, whether you are aware of that Standing Order. However, you were definitely in breach. Please, desist from such acts next time because you were definitely out of order.

Now we can proceed to questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement rendered by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I would like to start by acknowledging the statement made by the hon. Minister. Seated where I was and listening to his language, I do not know how many times I made such statements on this Floor, …

Hon. UPND Member interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: You think so?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, again, remember what I said. Do not debate while seated. Otherwise, you will be asked to debate on a point that you have not prepared yourself for. Can we desist from that conduct.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I thank you. For us, the Public Service is very important. Where we need to be sincere and open, we have to be.

Madam Speaker, I was just listening to the language. I do not know how many times I made those statements. I want the hon. Minister to appreciate that, yes, indeed, he has a very difficult task ahead of him. The instances the hon. Minister referred to are not the only ones. His counterpart, the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services’ office was stormed into by cadres. A few days ago, cadres also constituted themselves into a board, threatening the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Board –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu let us restrict ourselves to the questions because they arose from a matter of urgent public importance that was raised, and referred to three instances. Let us not open up the issue because I know that on the issue of violence and what not, one side will accuse the other and the other will do the same. I would rather each person stands on the Floor of the House and say ‘As a party, this is what we are going to do to ensure that violence is gotten rid of.’ So, that is what I expect to hear from hon. Members.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, please, ask your question.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate your counsel and this is why I am trying to make sure the hon. Minister gets my thinking. To be sincere, if there is an area I think I should have done more, it is in this one. This is why I cannot use the blame game. This is a matter that requires consented effort to deal with.

Madam Speaker, what is the hon. Minister doing to ensure that our officers – listening to that language, our officers who gave the report that culminated into this statement are being cautious in the way they want to project the events. What effort is the hon. Minister putting in place in order to ensure that they can work without looking at the past? I am saying this because these are people I know, as I worked with them for more than eight years. What pragmatic measures is he going to put in place to ensure that the officers are able to discharge their functions without being conscious of what is going to happen to them when they act decisively on the issue of violence?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank my dear colleague, Hon. Kampyongo, Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, for the question he has raised on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, I assure the nation that the New Deal Administration has made a commitment that anyone who transgresses is on his/her own. I have, on several occasions and at several fora, addressed the Zambia Police Service and other wings and assured them that I will be there to defend them if they behave professionally. That assurance has been made. If officers do not want to behave professionally and discharge their duties in the interest of the nation, then, they are not with us. We have given that assurance.

Madam Speaker, the nation knows that we are one of the rare political parties in this country that have arrested their own members …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and our members are serving sentences in our correctional facilities because of violence. We do not condone violence. On several occasions, even His Excellency the President, who is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, has made it very specific that anyone who involves himself in criminality is on his own.

Madam Speaker, let me state that cadres also mutate like the Coronavirus; today, they are in one political party where they are violent and when they move and join another political party and continue with that trend. It is our responsibility as leaders to ensure that our cadres conform to the norms and traditions of political parties of not being violent. It is our responsibility.

 

On a number of occasions, it is us leaders who incite our youth to become violent. If we stand, on several occasions, at public for a, to denounce violence, our cadres will not be violent. I assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu that we are up to the task. Anyone in our political party or any other political party who will be found wanting will be held accountable.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Mpika.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I made a mistake. I pressed on the hon. Member for Mpika’s garget. It is me.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That now brings in a serious situation. How did you find yourself using –

Can you stop the clock?

How did the hon. Member for Roan find himself using the e-Chamber for the hon. Member for Mpika?

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I have said my apologies. He is my neighbour. He is next to me and I thought I was right at my garget.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Thou shall not touch your neighbour’s garget.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Roan.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your tolerance and guidance. Indeed, ‘thou shall not touch thy neighbour’s property next time.’

Laughter

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement. Let me express my sincere fear. Indeed, I was in Kitwe in the Presidential motorcade when that fracas erupted and the Republican President was almost caught up in it. I am aware that the hon. Minister has mentioned the remedial measures and that, going forward, he is going to deploy enough officers.

Madam Speaker, what happened on that day, where no single officer was deployed, especially at the Wusakile Roundabout, such that when His Excellency the President was passing, we found a lot of stones on the road? What happened for the ministry to not take care of that very serious component?

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether that matter arises from the three matters of urgent public importance that were raised or it is a fresh one that the hon. Member is – maybe, the hon. Minister can indicate.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I indicated that in future, whenever we have activities of a national nature, we shall ensure that we deploy enough security to protect members of the public and those presiding.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, allow me, first of all, to thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for preparing that ministerial statement which was based on a matter of urgent public importance I raised last week.

Madam, I was listening very attentively, once again, to the statement by the hon. Minister. As I stand here, let me say that I did not raise that matter because I wanted it to be an academic issue. I want us to find a solution to a real problem that we have.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is aware that the Government of the Republic of Zambia installed surveillance cameras in quite a number of places. In Kitwe, there are surveillance cameras at Wusakile Roundabout which have a very huge coverage. They will show you what happened to the left, right and exactly what happened around that radius.

 

Madam Speaker, I am raising an issue of professionalism of our officers from the Zambia Police Service. Has the hon. Minister requested the Zambia Police Service to provide the footage it recorded to help him have a real picture of what happened? This is a very serious issue that requires all of us to be honest with what happened there. I was present, and I know that the video footage will help the Government to find a solution. I hold the hon. Minister in high esteem. Has the hon. Minister had time to look at the video footage which will show him what happened on that particular day at Wusakile Roundabout?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, when generating a report like the one I am delivering to this House, we use many sources of intelligence information, including the video cameras my hon. Colleague has indicated. I would not want to say what happened exactly on that day because he will be a part of the debate. He was at Wusakile as he has said it, where there was violence. So, I would not want to delve into that. However, what I can assure the hon. Member of Parliament is that the violence that occurred on Youth Day and International Women’s Day is isolated. There were peaceful youth day celebrations in the rest of the country, unlike what used to be witnessed in the past. That is a fact. It has never happened in the last ten years. We condemn the violence that took place in Kitwe and Ndola. We do not condone it. We shall ensure that those who are found culpable are brought to book.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Let us listen to a feminine voice.

Ms Mulenga (Kalulushi): Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister was delivering his statement, in the beginning, I had a lot of hope.

Madam Speaker, I want to draw the hon. Minister to the Youth Day. A directive was given by the Government that the youths of Kalulushi would not participate in the Youth Day celebrations in Kalulushi but in Kitwe.

Madam Speaker, let me just give a brief background. I have been in that district for the last ten years –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Kalulushi, just ask a question on a point of clarification. Do not debate.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we have never recorded any form of violence with our youths in the last ten years.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: You would not know because you never attended national events. In the last ten years, you did not attend national events.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Can we have order! Hon. Member, ask your question on a point of clarification.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the youths in question whom the hon. Minister has mentioned were not even there. What is surprising, in case the hon. Minister according to the report is not aware, is that those youths were picked up door to door by the United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres who had handcuffs. The police from Wusakile did not come to Kalulushi. Those were identified –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, you are now giving evidence. Can you ask a question on a point of clarification.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I am just trying to help the hon. Minister because I believe he is a good Minister.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: We have a lot of confidence in him.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

You will help him outside.

Laughter

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we have all the confidence in the hon. Minister. I have known the hon. Minister for the last six or seven years, and I know he is equal to the task.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the youths he has just mentioned from Kalulushi were not picked up by police officers but by the UPND district and constituency officials from Kalulushi, who were carrying handcuffs?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I will be failing in my duties if I do not respond to the statements made by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalulushi.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member stated that in the last ten years, during Youth Day and International Women’s Day celebrations, there has never been any violence. That is what she said.

Ms Mulenga: In Kalulushi, there has never been violence in the last ten years.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Can we have order, hon. Members! Otherwise, I will close this segment so that we proceed to the next one. Can we allow the hon. Minister to answer.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, with due respect, she did not talk about Kalulushi. She said in the last ten years. The record –

Ms Mulenga: In Kalulushi!

Mr Mwiimbu: No!

Madam Speaker: No! I was listening and she said in Kalulushi.

Ms Mulenga: Thank you!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, if that is the case, I retract my statement.

Ms Mulenga: Thank you, hon. Minister.

Mr Mwiimbu: However, I would like to state that the hon. Member said she had hope as I was addressing the House but she lost hope in due course because of the violence that occurred throughout the country.

Madam Speaker, I want to state without fear of any contradiction that the most violent era in the history of this country was from the time the Patriotic Front (PF) took over and the time they lost the elections. That was the most violent time.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, let me give one example of heinous crimes that were committed by the PF cadres at the Freedom Statue here in Lusaka, where the then Vice- President of the Republic was presiding. One of our members, a lady, was raped at the statue while everyone was watching and there is a record of that.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Let us not go back to that. It will just evoke injuries. Let us try to coexist peacefully with each other and bury the past. The past will not help us.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I hear you but sometimes history heals the present and the future.

Madam Speaker, I am surprised that my hon. Colleague gave evidence here that the youths who were charged by the police are from her constituency and they are PF. I did not mention Kalulushi –

Ms Mulenga interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: No, I mentioned the four who were apprehended in Wusakile. I did not mention Kalulushi. You are the one who brought that evidence.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: From what I heard, the hon. Minister mentioned Wusakile in his statement. There was no mention of Kalulushi.

Mr Mwiimbu: There was no mention of Kalulushi. I can repeat my statement.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, can I repeat what I said, with your permission? This is what I said and it is on record. Wusakile Police Station also recorded three other reports of cases of injury to persons which include one case of unlawful wounding in which a female Kalulushi resident, not those who were arrested but a resident, sustained a cut on her left arm after she was assaulted and wounded by persons she can identify. Investigations have been instituted and so far, five suspects have arrested. One has been charged for the offence of unlawful wounding while the other four have been charged for the offence of assault occasioning actual bodily harm.

Madam Speaker, I did not mention that there are her members coming from Kalulushi.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Even the injured ones.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Mwiimbu: I never mentioned that.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Really, is that the way we will proceed hon. Members?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am happy to note that those who were arrested were her members, and she said they were arrested by the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Ms Mulenga: Even the injured ones!

Hon. Members: Ah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I rest my case on this one. She has given evidence, which the nation has heard.

Madam Speaker: From what I see, we are heading into some sort of acrimony. Let us make progress and move to the next item to avoid acrimony, because it is not helping us.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PLANS TO UPGRADE CHANIDA BORDER

215. Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)          whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Chanida Border in Katete District to a one stop border post; and

(b)          if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to upgrade Chanida Border to a one stop border post in Katete District of the Eastern Province.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be undertaken by the Government, once an agreement to establish a one stop border post at Chanida, with the Government of the Republic of Mozambique, is agreed upon.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response.

Madam Speaker, when does the hon. Minister think we will have a one stop border post?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can you be quiet. There are many consultations going on. We need to follow the questions and the answers.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question on the specific time. Let me give more information on that, and I will not limit the information to a one stop border post.

Madam Speaker, the Government is currently considering giving a public-private partnership (PPP) concession to a concessionaire for the Katete/Chanida Road, which is 55 km, and a border post, plus associated infrastructure around Chanida. The PPP Council has identified a qualifying concessionaire and negotiations will start in the next few days, which will lead to an agreement for that concessionaire to have a concession for the border post as well as the Katete/Chanida Road. So, I ask the hon. Member to take keen interest in what we do. However, we are confident that works on both the road and the border post as well as the infrastructure around the border post will start this year.

Madam Speaker, with regard to the one stop border post, the reason I have answered in the manner that I have done is that to establish a one stop border post, we need the other country to agree because of the arrangement of a one stop border post but, certainly, the border post at Chanida will be upgraded. If we complete the discussions with the Government of Mozambique, then, it can be turned into a one stop border post.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, the two political parties here should come for lessons on violence, so that I assist them on how to end violence.

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has alluded to, the road from Katete to Chanida is very bad, and he will agree with me that the stretch of 100 km to Mozambique is also turning into a nightmare. The hon. Minister stated that the works to upgrade Chanida Border will be done this year. Since that is a national asset, can the hon. Minister tell the people of Zambia in which quarter the works will start?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the sequence of events is like this. Very shortly, our negotiating teams – the evaluation is complete, and there is one qualifying bidder. The next stage is to carry out negotiations that will result in that particular bidder being given a concession. After that, the law demands that we give time to the concessionaire to reach financial close. The period given for that is six months, but if a concessionaire reaches financial close sooner than that, then it can begin the work. That is the process the law allows us to follow. We cannot do it much faster than that. So, when we add those periods of time, it is possible that financial closure can be reached within this year and work can start.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will allow the hon. Member for Chadiza and, lastly, the hon. Member for Mwembezhi.

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, for the Government to market this infrastructure, there is a need to conduct a feasibility study. The people of Chadiza would like to know if this very important activity was conducted, because it is in this document that we have defined a post benefit analysis.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, it is a question of do we want the work to be done on the roads and the border post, and if we want it to be done, at what speed do we need it to be done? We have ascertained that there are two ways of awarding concessions under a PPP. The first one is what we call a solicited bid. A solicited bid means that the Government undertakes the feasibility study that the hon. Member of Chadiza talked about, which takes time. The second way is the unsolicited bid. This shifts the responsibility to the potential concessionaires. They come to us and say “we have done what we have done. We think it is a good project. Here are our offers.” These are the conditions that we take to our negotiations. On the basis of that, we have found that that quickens the process.

Madam Speaker, the road from Katete to Chanida is in a very bad condition. We found it like that. So, in an effort to quicken the process, the Government decided to opt for the unsolicited bid.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Mwembezhi will be the last one to ask a question. Hon. Member for Solwezi East, you have indicated a bit late.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, I am seated here very surprised at what the hon. Minister is talking about because for the past five years that I have been in this Parliament, people said that in areas such as Chadiza, there was massive development. The roads were constructed and everyone was happy. We are waiting for roads in Mwembezhi to be worked on, where there was no massive development. However, the hon. Minister is talking about Chadiza where there was massive development. What happened? Is he saying that the roads were not worked upon? Is that what the hon. Minister is telling the people of Zambia?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I have traversed the length and breadth of the country examining roads. That massive infrastructure developed talked about in certain parts of our country is not visible.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Sure?

Eng. Milupi: This is confirmed by the fact that we have many questions coming out of those areas with regard to roads. Some of the contracts that were given, we cannot – I can mention them province by province, especially those where we were supposed have had unprecedented development. I can also mention where roads are needed, province by province, but I do not think it is necessary.

Madam Speaker, suffice to say to the hon. Member for Mwembezhi, we have not seen it. It would have been easier for us to say that because people said it on the Floor of the House that they had done this and that, and that they would take development on roads to the other areas where there was no development. However, we are a responsible Government. The New Dawn Government is a responsible Government. We look at the whole country as one and that is why where it is possible, such as on the Katete/Chanida Road and the border posts, where we can do a Public Private Partnership (PPP), we shall encourage and process it as quickly as we can.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

ELECTRIFICATION OF KABINGA CHIEFDOM

216. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Energy:

1. when the Government will electrify the Kabinga Chiefdom in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency;
2. what the estimated cost of the project is; and
3. what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.

Eng. Milupi on behalf of the Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP), the electrification of Kabinga Chiefdom in Kanchibiya Parliament Constituency was earmarked for 2019. However, due to limited funds, the project was not undertaken. A revised scope of the project was undertaken and Kabinga Chiefdom will be electrified as part of a bigger project targeting the electrification of public institutions in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency. The project will be phased over a period of three years and is expected to commence in 2024.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of electrifying Kabinga Chiefdom is K20,012,348.05.

Madam Speaker, as indicated earlier, the electrification of the chiefdom will be done as part of a phased project that is expected to take three years, starting in 2024.

Madam Speaker, it should be noted that procurement processes have already been initiated and they will be completed in August, 2023. The first phase will involve electrification of Mutwe Walupa, which targets the electrification of the following areas:

1. Mutwe Walupwa Village. Oh, it is Umutwe Walupwa;

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: ...

1. Spoon Village;
2. Parish House Community;
3. Mulenga Rural Health Centre;
4. Mulonga Market; and
5. Mulonga Combined School.

Madam Speaker, this phase will involve construction of a 4.055 km high tension overhead line and 5.656 km of a medium voltage network.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, thank you so much and allow me to thank the Acting hon. Minister of Energy.

Madam Speaker, the area we are talking about is one of the four chiefdoms in Kanchibiya Constituency. Kanchibiya has Senior Chief Kopa, Chief Kabinga, Chief Mpepo and Chief Luchembe. The only chiefdom without access to electricity is the Kabinga Chiefdom, which also borders with Luapula Province and Chilubi District on the other side.

Madam Speaker, I think the first question I ask is whether the electrification of Kabinga Chiefdom will be done with solely hydroelectric generated power or the Government or Rural Electrification Authority (REA) will consider an energy mix, considering that the area also has a lot of potential in terms of hydropower and solar power generation.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first of all, to determine the question he is asking on whether it is solar or conventional hydropower from the national grid, the authority, that is REA, visited Chief Kabinga’s chiefdom in the month of July, 2020 to re-establish the scope of works and the cost of electrifying the chiefdom. Electrification of Chief Kabinga’s palace will involve, and that is now the answer to his question, tapping off power from the existing 33 kV overhead line at Chalabesa Mission. It will also involve constructing 52.6 km of a 33 kV overhead line, construction of 16.025 km of a 400 V overhead line and installation of eight transformers. Quite clearly, that is an indication that the power line for the electrification of Kabinga’s place or chiefdom is from the national grid.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, looking at the area of Kabinga Chiefdom and the places it covers, electricity is likely to be tapped from the national grid. Is the Government considering using the marine cables, looking at the fact that some of the areas of Kabinga may need that technology?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, whatever is required will be used. The main issue is the chiefdom, and it will be electrified. When it is electrified, the main beneficiary lodge centres of the project will include Chalabesa Day Secondary School, Muntu Watuka Primary School, Kawama Primary School and rural health centre, Kabinga and ZAWA Camp, Kabinga Rural Health Centre, Chief Kabinga’s Palace itself, Kabinga Primary School, Kalulu Primary and Secondary Schools and the surrounding communities. So, whether it is marine cable or not, whatever is required to undertake this work, will be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, the people of Kanchibiya will take your word as your bond, so, that is to ask the hon. Minister to confirm, as we go back. The people of Kanchibiya are listening to his responses, and so, can they expect that come 2024, these works will start? In asking that question, I thank the Government in advance for this particular work.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, this is exactly what I said. This work will start in 2024. The concern, really, – maybe, I should not widen it, it will be too much of a bonus. It will start in 2024.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE NATIONAL PENSION SCHEME (Amendment) BILL, 2023

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo) (on behalf of the Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read the second time.

Ms Tambatamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Madam Speaker, I rise to present the policy statement on the National Pension Scheme (Amendment) Bill, No. 1 of 2023.

The objectives of the Bill are to provide for:

1. members to access pre-retirement benefits; and
2. matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, this Bill is the New Dawn Government’s fulfilment of the promise made to the Zambian people, to reform pension systems and allow them to have access to their pension contributions, something they have never had before in the previous regimes. This is to enable our citizens to engage in various economic activities when they still have the energy. When the Bill is enacted, members of the National Pension Scheme will have access to 20 per cent of their contributions. Members of the scheme will be eligible for this benefit if they have a minimum of sixty months’ worth of contributions or have attained a minimum age of 45 years.

Madam Speaker, the process of development of the Bill has been consultative. The Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC) was consulted in line with the spirit of tripartism in the labour market. The TCLC consists of trade unions, employers and Government institutions. Further, civil society organisations (CSOs), academia and pension houses were also consulted.

Madam Speaker, through the consultative process, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security received submissions mainly bordering on the sustainability of the scheme. I assure the nation that the pension scheme will remain sustainable after the implementation of the one-off pre-retirement benefit. Currently, the total fund size of the scheme stands at K66.9 billion while the pay-outs are expected to be K8.9 billion or 13.3 per cent of the total fund value. Further, this proposal has been subjected to actuarial analysis which has shown that the scheme remains sustainable with the proposed measure.

Madam Speaker, allow me to address the issue of expected pay-outs under this proposal. The member contributions will be indexed and interest added. This means that the nominal balances that members see on the statements will be adjusted when calculating the pay-out. Based on the current levels of the contributions, the minimum expected pay outs will average K5000 with the maximum being around K160,000.

Madam Speaker, the citizens of this country have made it clear that they want to access part of their pension contributions and this Bill speaks to the realisations of the citizen’s desires and expectations. As a listening Government, putting this Bill in place by amending the law will enable our members to invest in different enterprises or financial instruments.

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, I thank your Committee, which scrutinised the Bill, for its work. With these remarks, I wish to state that this is a progressive Bill and I urge all hon. Members of the House to support the people’s wishes.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the point of order I want to raise is procedural. It is on the hon. Minister who had started moving the Motion–

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, there are no procedural points of order. There is no provision of raising orders of procedure.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, these are points of order that are premised on standard practice. We have not codified all our practices in our Standing Orders, and as Presiding Officers, you must understand that there are standard practices that are premised on the way we conduct business on the Floor of this august House. So, we need to keep our colleagues in the Executive in check.

Madam Speaker: What is your point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the point of order I am trying to raise is, first of all, on the hon. Minister who decided to stay away from the House even after knowing that she has very serious business on the Floor of the House –

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Ms Mulenga: Imwe lekeni ifyo.

Mr Kampyongo: Do not trivialise.

Further, she started by referring to contents that are not in the report. We all read the reports and the texts that are given to your Committee. She started politicising the Bill by saying that now the Bill is going to provide for what was not provided for in the previous regime.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, was she in order to politicise a Motion such as this one? I beg for a serious ruling. I think people need to learn.

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: You should learn. That is why you are not learning. These are serious procedural matters, Madam Speaker.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, before Business was suspended, the House was considering the Second Reading stage of the National Pensions Scheme (Amendment) Bill No. 1 of 2023 and the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu had just finished raising a point of order on the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security.

I now proceed to rule on the point of order.

The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu raised a concern that the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security, as she was rendering a policy statement on the amendment Bill, was politicking by saying that the matter was not obtainable in the past regime.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, the fact that there is an amendment confirms that the status quo did not happen. This is a new Act that has been done…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: … in accordance with the manifesto of the United Party for National Development (UPND).

So, I find that the hon. Minister was not out of order.

As to why she was not there, I think, I observed that she was around, but maybe there was something that she had to do bordering on the call of nature.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on the National Pensions Scheme (Amendment) Bill No.1 of 2023, laid on the Floor of the House on 21^st March, 2023.

Madam Speaker, the Committee considered the National Pensions Scheme (Amendment) Bill, No. 1 of 2023 in line with its terms and references.

Madam Speaker, I wish to state, from the outset, that pension schemes ensure income security for people that may potentially be vulnerable due to loss of income resulting from old age. Changing local and global economic and social context may require pension houses to consider opportunities available for them to add value to their members while maintaining their core functions of assuring social security of members in their old age.

The National Pensions Scheme (Amendment) Bill No.1 of 2023 was supported by some witnesses the Committee interviewed who stated that it was a progressive amendment. The Committee is of the view that in spite of this support, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security must exercise care in the implementation to ensure that the identified risks do not crystalise.

Madam Speaker, allow me to highlight some of the issues which the Committee came across in the process of considering the Bill. The Committee notes that the Bill recognises that a member who accesses 20 per cent of their benefits will have the final benefits pay out reduced. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the beneficiaries of the pre-retirement lump sum benefits are provided with financial literacy as the investment of these funds is essential to their old age protection. Further, for the beneficiaries to invest their pre-retirement benefits, the Government must provide an economic environment which creates investment opportunities.

Madam Speaker, your Committee was informed that there was a risk associated with early withdrawals which might have impact on the financial sector, the treasury and the scheme. Some witnesses contended that early withdrawals would entail pulling out funds from existing investments for the purposes of meeting pay outs to qualified members. In order to address this weakness, your Committee recommends that the Ministry of Labour and Social Security ensures that the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) manages the partial withdrawals properly.

Madam Speaker, the Committee was informed that one illegibility criteria to access the 20 per cent pre-retirement lump sum benefit was that a member should have attained the age of forty-five years. Your Committee observes that although the general effect of this provision is easily discernible, this option could be problematic in practice unless qualified by further conditions. In light of this, the Committee recommends for NAPSA to consider deleting this criterion and use the minimum sixty monthly contribution criteria. This is to avoid a situation where a member who, despite having met the age requirement, has made very few monthly contributions that would not allow them to acquire adequate financial resources for purposes of investment.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to render my sincere gratitude to you, the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia and his staff for the guidance and support rendered to the Committee throughout its deliberations. I also thank all stakeholders who participated in the consideration of the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kafue, thank you for giving me this opportunity to comment on your Committee’s report.

Madam Speaker, first of all, I commend the Committee and appreciate its support for the Bill, of course, noting a few concerns that it has raised which, I think, are manageable. Basically, it is just giving counsel to would-be beneficiaries that they need financial literacy before they can handle the funds. In fact, this literacy is needed even by the current beneficiaries who are drawing funds at the terminal end of their service.

 

Madam Speaker, it is a good idea because at the age of forty-five and provided you have met this requirement of sixty months contributions, you are still energetic enough in fact, to be able to invest this money. You can apply it to good use yourself rather than waiting until you are old and probably, not even in a position use these funds. In fact, we have a number of potential beneficiaries who leave their funds before they even excess them. It is good that now we have the New Dawn Government that can show us that indeed, it cares for its people.

Madam Speaker, I am sure I am also in order to join the hon. Minister in saying that these are the reforms that the New Dawn Government has come up with. These reforms are meant to look after the retirees who would have put in all their best during their work career. So, the people of Kafue look forward to the fruition of this matter. I am therefore, proud to stand, debate and even assure the people that indeed, this matter has moved to the next stage. When His Excellency announced this matter, people had already wanted to access these funds but we had to tell them that we needed to go through the process of creating the supporting legislation in order to actualise this particular progressive reform. So, well-done to our Government for responding to the call of what our people would really love to see.

Madam Speaker, as if this is not enough, the New Dawn Government is currently paying out funds to those people who contributed to the Zambia National Provident Fund (ZNPF) but could not get their funds after it transitioned to the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). It can only take a committed and prudent Government to be able to do this kind of thing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, it can only take a Government that is caring to pay off the Tanzania Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) workers as they have been paid huge sums of money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kafue!

Can we stick to the Motion on the Floor.

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, thank you. I thought I should just mention that. Finally, I intend to make this debate brief because it is not controversial. Everything about it is very good. My final appeal, really is that our Government looks into all these reforms.

Madam Speaker, the other message I have from the people of Kafue, especially the former workers of the Kafue Textiles of Zambia (KTZ) is that they also do not want to be left behind in this reform that is meant to benefit the former workers who have served this nation. In that category, are these KTZ workers whom, during the time of privatisation had gone into some understanding with the Government but what was supposed to be their deal was not fulfilled. So, they are looking to this New Dawn Government to also look into their plight so that their outstanding terminal benefits are looked into because they have families. Some of them are still around and some, unfortunately, have since passed on, but they have beneficiaries who can still benefit from these funds if this Government looks into this issue.

Madam Speaker, I would want to marry that with the former council workers, although, I am aware that our able hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development at one time, talked about what the Government is trying to do with regard to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF). I think there are still some outstanding payments that need to be looked at for the people who served in our local authorities countrywide. Particularly, my mandate is to speak for the people of Kafue. I thought I would take advantage of this good report to just highlight those issues.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to make a few comments on the second reading of this proposed amendment Bill.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I must state that we support these amendments with reservations. These reservations are well-reflected in your report.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, your Committee which scrutinised this proposed Bill has raised very interesting concerns. We must first of all understand what the role of this pension schemes is. Like the Chairperson of the Committee stated, the pension schemes are there to ensure income security for people who may potentially be financially vulnerable because of loss of income in the old age. This means that these are people who could have served and were having constant income through emoluments but at the end of their tour of duty, they are given this final benefit payout which they then would utilise to invest in ensuring the financial security in old age.  However, global, social and economic dynamics are changing.

Madam Speaker, therefore, it is not wrong to revisit these schemes and we should not lose sight. That is why there is need to holistically look at all these dynamics that have been raised. For example, at the age of forty-five, how many people would have accrued sufficient funds with the scheme which they can access to add value to their lives? We are saying that the final payout will reduce. Like the hon. Minister has stated as the minimum, if someone gets K5,000, what are they going to do with it? We have seen our public servants go into debt to try and sustain themselves. So, this K5,000, for example, will just be something someone would use for day to day activities. How does that come to add value to them when they are no longer in employment? So, in as much as it looks so attractive, we must be very conscious in the implementation of these proposals.

Madam Speaker, yes, the challenges have been there for people who have accessed these final lump sum payouts which they could have been misused but again, most of them have ended up living sustainable lives by utilising that final payout prudently. So, forty-five years for me should not be an option if we have to go with this. We should leave it at sixty months because then we would have known that someone has accrued some reasonable amounts from which they can get some money to add value to their lives.

Madam Speaker, the other issue your Committee has raised is a risk to the financial sector. The pension schemes do not operate in isolation. They operate in the financial sector where there are banks. Let us look for the economic challenges that our people could be going through right now. If the Act is amended and the operation order is passed, you will see the run on the scheme. This run on the scheme must not only affect the scheme itself, but also the financial sector, the banks where these contributions are kept. Are we ready for that run that people will engage in when this Bill becomes an Act of Parliament?

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, those who do not read reports should keep quiet when we are debating matters that are serious.

Ms Sefulo: Question!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

Just concentrate on your debate and do not try to school some hon. Members.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: First of all, withdraw that statement because it was not made in good faith.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is in good faith. I am talking about the report. Facts of the report.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

You said those who do not read reports and that is sending a bad –

Mr Kampyongo: Apparently, they are the ones shouting the loudest.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Withdraw that statement because it is assumed that all hon. Members –

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I withdraw that and I request hon. Members to be quiet when those who have something to say are debating.

Madam Speaker, what I was saying is that we need to be cautious as we implement these proposals because we have to safe guide the members’ contributions.

Madam Speaker, the other issue in the report is the security of investments from members’ contributions that go to the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA). So, the report is saying the Government must facilitate secure investments such as investments in Government Treasury Bills and Bonds. That will ensure that would-be beneficiaries do not lose out because of unscrupulous investments. That is the language in the report. What this means is that when you invest people’s contributions, the interest of those who are contributing should be considered first. How is this –

Hon. Government Member: Not stealing!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Somebody on my right said stealing. Please, desist from using such words. It is unparliamentary. Listen quietly to the debate so that you are able to respond appropriately.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, all of us who contribute to the scheme want to see investments that will secure our contributions. Investments such as the one in the Central Business District (CBD) in Lusaka, where a building was bought but is not being utilised and is compromised, are investments we are saying the scheme should avoid so that members’ contributions are secured. We are now investing in the dual carriageway. How secure are the funds we will put in that project and how soon will they come back to ensure that these contributions –

Eng. Milupi: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am restraining myself.

Madam Speaker, we, the contributors want to see investments that are acceptable and ensure that no one decides on our behalf without consulting the general membership on how contributions to the scheme are utilised.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I support the amendments with serious reservations because the report is speaking to these reservations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, the person who was urging you on is the hon. Member for Kasenengwa, who is seated there.

Laughter

Mr Twasa rose.

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress. Hon. Member for Mbabala, have you withdrawn?

Mr Munsanje: Yes!

Madam Speaker: You have been replaced by the hon. Member for Nkana.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate this –

Hon. Members: He is a Committee Member.

Madam Speaker: Is he a Committee Member?

Hon. Members: Yes!

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders permit us–

Madam Speaker: No!

Let us give an opportunity to other Members.

Mr B. Mpundu: There is no one –

Madam Speaker: You debated. You had sufficient time. So, can we have the hon. Member for Chama South.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to debate the report.

Madam Speaker, let me also state from the outset that I support this report with reservations and the reason is very simple. This report is suggesting that people who qualify to partially access the money must have served for sixty months, which is five years. When one looks at our population, demographics show that 80 or 85 per cent of the population are young. Our children finish tertiary education in their early twenties, meaning after working for five years, they will be about 26 years. Then they will have to wait for twenty years –

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Have you seen where the confusion is?

Madam Speaker, they will have to wait for twenty years for them to reach forty-five years.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Check the report. Actually, if you want to debate, stop yearning there.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chama South!

Do not take over the role of a Presiding officer. Otherwise, you will render me irrelevant. I still want to regulate the proceedings.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Please, stick to the debate and I will continue protecting you.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders dictate that we should listen in silence.

Madam Speaker: Yes, I have taken note. Just debate. That is my role.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I was saying that the children will have to wait for twenty years because for one to qualify to access the funds, one should be forty-five years That is what the hon. Minister said, and that is what the report says, which to me, does not make sense. How much will they be able to access with the high cost of living? You know that K10,000 or K20,000 is nothing to boast about and say our civil servants will access K20,000. I have to mention that this is the money that is supposed to guarantee the future of the retirees. They will access K40,000 to K50,000, which cannot even be used to buy a plot. This piece of legislation is likely to send our people into destitution. Not only that, this will have far-reaching consequences on the financial wellbeing of the country, particularly the financial sector.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: Most depositors in our banks are civil servants. These are facts; go and check. You are telling them to start accessing pension funds, instead of them going to the financial sector to borrow.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mung’andu: That is how we build the economy, colleagues. You are running a private sector driven economy.

Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to appeal to the Executive to not use the scheme to affect our pension scheme.

Ms Sefulo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point order is raised.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I was seated here, listening quietly to the hon. Member’s debate. I do not know whether the hon. Member has confused himself. He is encouraging civil servants to go out there and access money from the lenders at a much higher rate, whilst holding onto their money at the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). So, I am confused. Is the hon. Member in order to encourage the civil servants, whom he said he is representing, to access kaloba whilst they have money that is sitted, which they can access free?

Madam Speaker, I submit.

Madam Speaker: Order!

I am not sure whether the hon. Member for Chama South is speaking for his people.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: So, the people are listening to him. Let him continue in that line.

Mr Mung’andu: Thank you for your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member does not understand how the financial sector operates. If she did, she would appreciate that the banking or financial sector depends on you and me. Pension is meant for someone to survive on after service. That is what it is meant for. However, I would like to send a warning to the New Dawn Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Hon. PF Member: Yes, warn them.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, if they want to create financial stress on the pension fund so that they start disposing of its assets either to themselves or foreigners. We warn them because we expect pension fund –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chama South!

Earlier this morning when there was a warning from the right to the left, there was a point of order protesting against warning each other. So please, desist from also warning the other side so that we remain fair.

 

You may proceed without warning anyone.

 

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance. The point that I was trying to drive home is that once pensioners start making requests for draw downs, we are likely to face financial pressure on the pension fund. This is a fact and it will happen. Then individuals will resort to machinations of selling pension fund investments, either to foreign colleagues or themselves so that they raise funds to meet those obligations. We want to tell them that as Zambians, we will not allow them to do that.

Madam Speaker, we expect the pension fund to continue investing. Actually, we have the Public Service Micro-Finance Company (PSMFC) that was specifically created. Why do they not lower the interest rates if the argument is about letting civil servants access the funds at a lower percentage? Why not give them at 5 per cent? It is their money that is being issued by PSMFC. Unlike allowing them to access the money. We are going to create a future of destitution in our country. The reason is very simple as I said. How much will the people be able to access? Someone was even talking about a hundred thousand. What is a thousand in our economy?

Madam Speaker, can we better their working conditions? We should be working to build the economy, hon. Colleagues, so that our civil servants can get decent pay. When we make an increment of 10 per cent, our civil servants’ increment is not eroded by costs of living as the case is now. That is what we should be working on and not such ideas.

I will support it because, Madam Speaker, our hon. Colleagues have the numbers. Even if I do not, they will still pass. So, I support the amendments with serious reservations.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, in the first place, I thank the hon. Members that have made contributions to the debate on the Motion. That is hon. Member for Lunte, who is the Chairperson for the Committee, hon. Member for Kafue, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu and hon. Member for Chama South, who gave a warning. Warning to whom; the workers of Zambia?

Madam Speaker, picking it up from there, the workers of Zambia emphatically spoke through their Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC) that brings together employers, workers’ representatives, and, indeed, the Government. As we debate here, they are listening. So, on that point, we are speaking on behalf of the workers that have spoken. Indeed, today, I am sure in different parts of the country, workers are seated in places as it is when there is a soccer tournament. Such as one we witnessed in recent times between Liverpool and Manchester United.

Hon. Member: Question!

Not that one.

Laughter

Ms Tambatamba: Workers are watching just like it happened on that day.

Madam Speaker, through the hon. Member for Lunte, some major aspects of the contributions that came from the Committee is the issue of financial market impact. The reduction of benefits of workers. Those are matters that have been spoken on very well. I think I will just summarise them to save time. Starting with the concern around the sensitisation of key stakeholders regarding the period in time and benefits. They have to understand the impact on both members that will withdraw or that will make a choice to take away their 20 per cent, and, indeed, to sensitise those on the financial markets to assure them that the authority has undertaken a lot of work that I will outline.

Madam Speaker, all key stakeholders were consulted and they understood the option that was picked out of the eight as being the best, and as I heard some of the contributors say that perhaps we should have gone the loan way. This would create a burden on the very workers that are being enabled in this environment with this amendment.

On the issue of risk, Madam Speaker, National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) undertook a risk assessment, and the anticipated risks have been mitigated. For instance, through the following measures, minimum pension invalidity and funeral grant payable under the Act has been scaled down for members who opt to access the benefit as a risk mitigating measure.

Madam Speaker, the risk of destabilising the financial sector has been mitigated by ensuring that payments will be made from fresh funds. Maturities will, therefore, not involve the authority breaking down existing investments.

Madam Speaker, the risk of the scheme becoming unsustainable has been mitigated through the assurance of the actuaries who have confirmed that long term sustainability will not be negatively affected.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of support to other investments, NAPSA will be able to support them although it will prioritise payment of pre-retirement lump sum benefits. Hence, it will only support other investments to the extent that it does not affect the introduction of the pre-retirement benefit.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, wind up.

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, on the forty-five years access or eligibility, I just want to say that the idea behind paying those who are aged forty-five years is that some members who are senior in age may not be able to garner sixty months must be left behind. Therefore, a special consideration was necessary to cover such people who may start work late; in their forty-five years. So, these are the two choices. Over all, it is a matter of choice. Members are not compelled to go and draw the money. We have created an enabling environment through this amendment. Indeed, there will be financial literacy, as was requested by the chairperson of the Committee. So, I just want to thank all the members of the Committee for their support and those who provided an alternative thought of how we can enhance or facilitate an environment that will not take way from the members of the pension scheme or, indeed, the survival of the authority.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to the committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 23^rd March, 2023.

THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES BILL, 2023

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, may I start by thanking you for according me this opportunity to present this policy statement on the principles of the Controlled Substance Bill No. 2 of 2023.

Madam, as part of the United Nations International Drug Controlled System, the World Health Organisation (WHO) in collaboration with the International Narcotics Control Board (INCB) seeks to support the obligation of member states to establish a system of control for controlled substances that ensures the following:

1. adequate availability of controlled substances for medical, research and scientific purposes; and
2. prevention of substance abuse, diversion and trafficking. This is to promote the best health of populations around the world and safeguarding the welfare of humankind.

Madam Speaker, in Zambia, controlled substances have been used in the relief of pain and anxiety in health conditions related to cancer, the Human Immunodeficiency Virus and Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) and tuberculosis (TB) to mention but a few. Thus, to achieve the rational use of these controlled substances, which benefit the Zambian population, and also to prevent the misuse and abuse of controlled substances, there is a need for the Government to put in place a robust legal framework.

Madam, the current legislation is inadequate in dealing with a number of issues related to the regulation of controlled substances in the country. The Dangerous Drugs Act Chapter 95 of the Laws of Zambia provides for the control of the importation, exportation, production, possession, sale, distribution and use of dangerous drugs. The Narcotic Drug and Psychotropic Substances Act No. 35 of 2021 provides for the control in trafficking and illicit use of the controlled substances. In addition, The Medicines and Allied Substances Act No. 3 of 2013 provides for the regulation of medicines of which some are controlled substances that include morphine, pethidine, codeine and diazepam to mention, but a few.

Madam Speaker, in order to address the challenges that have been identified in the regulation of controlled substances, my ministry undertook a comprehensive regulatory impact assessment in 2018 following approval in principle by Cabinet in 2017 to repeal and replace the Dangerous Drug Act Chapter 95 of the Laws of Zambia and this led to the development of the Controlled Substances Bill No. 2 of 2023 through a consultative process with key stakeholders.

Madam, the Bill has made sufficient provisions that will ensure availability of controlled substances for medical, research and scientific purposes, and most importantly, prevent substance abuse, diversion and trafficking of controlled substances. The provisions in the Bill are compatible with the recommendations by the International Narcotics Control Board and these include, but not limited to the following:

1. providing the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) with additional functions to license and regulate controlled substances;
2. submission of quarterly returns by the licensee to ZAMRA. This is essential so that the ZAMRA is aware of what the licensee is doing with the licence. It is also a compliance mechanism for ensuring that the provisions of the proposed legislation are well complied with;
3. control and limit the quantities of imported and exported controlled substances so as to prevent misuse, abuse diversion and trafficking of controlled substances;
4. prohibit the illegal advertising, promotion, manufacturing, selling, importing, supplying or dealing in controlled substances used as medicine without a licence;
5. authorise certain classes of persons to handle controlled substances. The classes of persons will include a health practitioner, a veterinary surgeon, a nurse, health facility, research institution and unauthorised officer;
6. prevent diversion of controlled substances that are in transit through the Republic of Zambia;
7. classification of controlled substances in various schedules that are part of the Act. The classification of the controlled substances is categorised depending on the danger or risk to the public of each controlled substances;
8. prohibit the use of premises for the illegal manufacture, distribution or use of controlled substances so as to protect the public from misuse, abuse, diversion and trafficking of controlled substance; and
9. segmentation of the penalties and offences for the protection of children.

Madam Speaker, it is essential to create separate penalties and offences for the controlled substances so that the more dangerous the controlled substance, the stiffer the penalty. This is essential to ensure that minors are protected from being used for the purpose of illegal dealing in controlled substances.

Madam, the objects of this Bill are to:

1. provide for the granting of a licence to deal in manufacture, import and export of a controlled substance;
2. regulate the use dispensing, manufacture, wholesale transfer, supply sell distribution and possession of a controlled substance for medicinal, scientific and research purposes;
3.  provide for procedures and criteria for classification of controlled substances;
4. provide for the functions of ZAMRA relating to controlled substances; and
5. repeal and replace the Dangerous Drugs Act of 1967; and
6. provide for matters connected with or incidental to the forgoing.

Madam Speaker, in summary, the Bill seeks to domesticate the United Nations Conventions on Controlled Substances. It also seeks to ensure that controlled substances used are for intended purposes in a rational manner.

Madam Speaker, the Bill which is before us today is progressive and non-controversial and I wish to urge hon. Members of Parliament to support the Bill. In so doing, Madam Speaker, I also want to end by thanking your Committee which did an excellent work in ensuring that this Bill brought before this House.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for this opportunity to speak on behalf of my hon. Colleagues and the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services and to present a report on the Controlled Substances Bill No. 2 of 2023 for the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

Madam Speaker, the objectives of the Bill have already been spelt out by the hon. Minister. I will, therefore, not be dwelling into that. Similarly, your Committee hopes that the hon. Members have had the occasion and time to read through the report which has been circulated. I will, therefore, speak only to four matters.

Madam Speaker, firstly, your Committee, indeed, scrutinised this Bill and, in so doing, used the usual methodology of interviewing or interacting with stakeholders, receiving both written and oral submission. May I say, from the outset, that your Committee supports this Bill in totality.

Madam Speaker, however, there were a few concerns that were raised by stakeholders and these were three. Firstly, it relates to the definition of who a health practitioner is. The definition given in the Bill, currently, is restrictive in the sense that it gives a different definition opposed to the one that is used in the Health Professions Council Act and, therefore, your Committee feels that in order to harmonise the two and have one definition, we should use the definition in the Health Professions Act No. 24 of 2009.

Madam Speaker, secondly, your Committee was also informed that when it comes to who is an authorised officer, the police were left out. Your Committee agrees that they should be included also as authorised officers who can carry out inspections or an arrest when it comes to any transgression with regard to these controlled substances.

Madam Speaker, there was also another concern with regard to the time that it takes when you lodge an application to deal in these controlled substances. The Bill proposes that you should be given a reply within thirty days, but there are also other sections of the law, in particular, the Medicines and Allied Substances Act which requires that, at least, ninety days should be given. Your Committee agrees that to make it consistent, perhaps we should consider a period of ninety days. Those were the three concerns. Everything else in the Bill your Committee delved into in detail and agrees whole heartedly.

Madam Speaker, lastly, your Committee is concerned to note that there are various other substances in communities which are being abused largely. I am sure hon. Members have heard of drugs such Benylin with codeine which is known as Nyerere in the local parlance. They have heard of insunko and methylated spirit, which are being abused by some of our youths. They have also heard of drugs like volo that is heroin mixed with teething powder; shisha; blue mash, which is phenergan that people mix with other substances; and blue diamond or Sildenafil, which is also abused amongst our male folk.

Laughter

Dr Kalila: In fact, it has killed many men because it has been abused.

Madam Speaker, our recommendation to the hon. Minister is that, perhaps, we need to investigate all other substances that are currently being abused in communities, particularly, among our youth, leading to high levels of delinquency and other deviant behaviours. Maybe, if we could come up with evidence, they could be considered for inclusion in the Controlled Substances Act.

Madam Speaker, this is a very progressive Bill that replaces the old 1967 Dangerous Drugs Act. Not only does it continue to control abuse, but also provides an avenue for the first time to ensure that you can also have access to these very drugs. Although they are controlled, they are also useful to those who need them. We heard the hon. Minister say that we can use these substances, including cannabis, for therapeutic purposes. We are all aware about that. So, the Bill makes it possible, through a rigorous process, to apply, through the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) and the ministry, for one to have access to these substances. I think that is very positive. It also brings the Act in line with international norms. Therefore, your Committee supports this Bill.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to place on record, once again, that your Committee has no objection whatsoever to this Bill. Allow me to thank the many stakeholders who appeared before your Committee to bring it to speed with information on this Bill. I also thank you, Madam Speaker, and the Clerk of the National Assembly for making it possible for us to present this report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you, very kind Madam Speaker. Permit me to welcome you back in the House. I have not had the privilege to debate in your presences since your arrival. I welcome you back.

Madam Speaker, to support this Bill, there are a few concerns that I would like to address on behalf of the kind people of Lumezi. First of all, on page 7 of the report, there is a part entitled “Power of authorised officer.” Permit me to quote Karl Marx because the report talks of opium. Whoever wishes to transact in the business of opium should seek authority from an authorised officer.

Madam Speaker, Karl Marx once said that religion is the opium of the masses. It is a tranquiliser of the masses. I see no reason the report did not pay attention to individualistic approach of being an authorised officer.

Madam Speaker, your Committee should have, at least, laboured to limit the number of authorised officers to an even number. The moment you allow an authorised officer to be an individual, you are prone to corrupt practices.

Madam Speaker, the moment we give authority to one person to manage the affairs that are affecting our people, that person can easily be compromised. To avoid that, your Committee should have gone further to say three should be the prescribed number of authorised persons. I am speaking to the report and it says an ‘authorised person” and not persons, unless my reading is bad. It says person and not persons, meaning an individual can go into a pharmacy, inspect and come up with a report and make an arrest. That is what the report is saying.

Madam Speaker, some of us are part of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC) that detests corruption.

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: As APNAC, we detest it with a lot of passion. We shall not agree to give authority to individuals or to an individual. Let there be three, five or seven people or an even number of persons for the benefit of the country.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. That is on the veracity of statements that are being made on the Floor of this House. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi in order to suggest that if authority is given to one person, the likelihood of corruption is very high, when in actual fact, he is the only hon. Member in Lumezi and there is no one else who represents the people of Lumezi here.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Is he suggesting to us that he is corrupt, because he is the only one from Lumezi? Is he in order to suggest that?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lumezi, the word ‘person’ may also include ‘persons’, so it can be plural. However, the statement that you have made is not necessarily correct. So, please, be careful with what you state and stick to points and facts.

Hon. Member, you may proceed.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I always appreciate your guidance, especially that Hon. Mwiimbu came to Parliament when I was nine years old.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, from the time I was nine years old, my thinking has evolved. Hon. Mwiimbu’s thinking is stuck to the many years he has spent in this House.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Let us not – No, can you withdraw that last statement. We are not supposed to debate each other.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, with your guidance, I withdraw the statement that his thinking has not evolved. However, I appreciate your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, it is a fact that some of us who are the new entrants have adopted a practice of debate which is not fitting to our submissions because the thinking is not changing. It is constant from the time I was nine years old. However, my submission is that the moment we idealise or give authority to individuals, we will have problems to come up with a clear-cut mechanism to monitor drug abuse, especially those that are selling codeine. If we go to Mandevu Compound as a matter of fact, the same codeine is being mixed with glycerine that is being used in lotions. We have junkies who cannot survive without consuming codeine. Codeine should be the easiest substance that we find in the most densely populated areas. So, the Committee should have done a little bit better. I am not condemning the report, but I am being factual because my thinking is modern. It is speaking to the trends and not to the happenings of twenty-two years ago.

Madam Speaker, last time, when we had a Report on the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services, I never had a privilege to speak to it, because sometimes, I feel, not to offend anyone, that maybe, it is a composition that brings –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, let us stick to the current report and not debate outside the report.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you. Maybe, I was going to put a boom on the Table. So, it is okay. Maybe, it is the composition that we need to look at. Maybe, we need to look at how these compositions that write these reports are made because we cannot have a report on health always having some hanging submissions.

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Madam Speaker, I am very grateful for this point of order and I think that as a House, we should be mindful and be true to the procedures that govern some of the processes that we run here. So, when a Bill is presented, it is referred to our Committee. Your Committee scrutinises it, listens to the submissions that come from the various stakeholders, and renders an opinion, which it brings here. Now, this point of order is premised on Standing Order No. 65, which is very popular here.

Madam Speaker, the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services, which is your Committee, looked at this Bill. All the terminologies which we have presented here were drawn exactly from that Bill. You have clearly guided that when we say authorised person in the legal parlance it can also mean the plural. Secondly, it would appear to me that my young brother has not read the Bill itself and I am labouring to see his contribution to this House as everybody else has noticed. Codeine, which is part of the ingredients of Benylin with codeine is one of the controlled substances …

Madam Speaker: What is the point of order?

Dr Kalila: …and it has been listed very clearly in one of the schedules in this controlled substances Bill. Is he in order to cast aspersions and insinuations of a very important work of this committee which has supported this Bill and has clearly said that codeine and other substances should be controlled? So, what other work did he expect us to do when yet, we have done a good job? Is he in order not to have read the report and to have seen that codeine, in fact, is listed in the Bill if he cared to read it?

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Madam Speaker: I think the hon. Member was mixing many matters in his debate. Hon. Member, to avoid being out of order, stick to the report that is before the House and debate as such.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, you will continue forging me for I represent a new generation that does not subscribe to the old way of doing things. I have read the report and I have been very systematic. For example, page 7 of the report talks about power of authorised officer and that is where I centered my debate. It is not that I have not read the debate.

Madam Speaker, I speak to your report that comes through the Committees knowing very well that I am not interested in being the next hon. Minister of Health but to speak to the report.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Just debate the issues that are before the House. Do not try to imagine yourself in a position that you are not. Please, proceed as guided.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, senior hon. Members should delegate their fellows like Hon. Mabeta to raise a point of order…

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

Your time is almost over. Can you conclude your debate.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, my submission in a few seconds is that, let us allow more people to monitor these activities than having an individualistic approach. A practical example is that you Madam Speaker, have always had three Clerks at the Table. This should be the trend in everything we do. Let us not be individuals in making decisions because that is a breeding ground for corruption. When raising points of order, senior hon. Members, delegate to Hon. Mabeta.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Is Hon. Mabeta your age mate?

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to make a few comments in supporting the Bill, which is at the second reading stage. The Bill has to do with controlled substances.

Madam Speaker, let me start by slightly differing with the proposal by the Chairperson of your Committee, who talked about the inclusion of the police. Why? It is because the implementation of this law should also rely so much on the Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act, No. 35 of 2021, which is enforced by the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). More or less, the issues that the hon. Minister of Health is trying to address are equally contained to a larger extent in this Act, which is enforced by the DEC.

Madam Speaker, the amendment of the Bill is welcome and it comes at the right time because when you go on our streets, you will find our young ones with little bottles stuck to their mouths.

They sniff codeine and other psychotropic substances in those little bottles, which is what the Chairperson of your Committee on Health, Community Development and Social services referred to. These substances are now becoming a potential danger because it is a time bomb with our youths. Therefore, I urge the hon. Minister that the implementation of this law should not just be left to the Ministry of Health itself. Drug peddling or illicit drug movement is a very vicious business which depends on very serious cartels. So, the Ministry of Health will depend largely on the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the DEC is well placed to collaborate with her ministry in order to enforce this law.

Madam Speaker, the abuse of drugs has reached alarming levels now and if we do not take decisive actions, we are just playing with a potential time bomb. The vulnerability of our youths, be it in schools, on the streets or in the community, is something that we should all take interest in.

Madam Speaker, therefore, I support the amendments, but amending a law is just but one action. The most key issue is the enforcement of the law. If we do not enforce the law effectively, it will be an exercise in futility of making these amendments for all of us seated here.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, from the outset, I thank the Chairperson of this Committee and his Committee for a job well done. I also thank the few speakers who have contributed to the debate on this Bill.

Madam Speaker, let me just look at some few concerns which have been raised by the Committee and others who have spoken. I see top on the list is the issue of ‘authorised officer’. The second one was time for lodging and then the last one was the definition of ‘health practitioner’.

Madam Speaker, starting with the issue of definitions, it is correct that when you look at the definition of a health practitioner, the Health Professions Council of Zambia Act that regulates this profession has a definition and has a list of medical officers who have been listed. In this Bill, however, you find that the definition is being controlled. The simple reason being that the nature of drugs or substances that we are talking about need to be controlled. If, therefore, we have to go with definition which is in the Health Professions Council of Zambia Act, it will mean that the usage or prescription of these drugs will be done by any person as if he/she was prescribing any other simple drug and not a controlled substance as the case is. So, there was a deliberate definition to help in the actual reason that we are trying to control. In this regard, I think, Hon. Munir went off the issue itself when he started saying that if somebody is going to be a defined person, it therefore means there will be corruption. I think, he lost the actual meaning of this whole thing.

Madam Speaker, whilst appreciating the fact that we may have challenges in other health centres to get the actual person, I think that the interpretation of a health practitioner as provided in the Health Professions Council of Zambia Act opens the controlled substances to even those health practitioners whom in their course of practice do not handle these controlled substances. Therefore, the definition in the Bill before this House, in our opinion, should stand as is. The Ministry of Health will be allowed to issue statutory instruments to expand, for example, the list, should need arise. Within the law, that provision has been given.

Madam Speaker, the other issue was on the inclusion of police officers. The Committee actually looked at that issue and there was a proposal that we include the police. I also note that Hon. Kampyongo also debated on the need to do that. To that extent, I want to say that the inclusion of the police officers in the definition of authorised officers is acknowledged and within the process of enacting the Bill, and we have taken note of that.

However, I also want to say that if you look at the whole Bill, there are other institutions such as the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) itself and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). Now there is also the proposed inclusion of police officers, who have a stake in the regulation of controlled substances. So, ZAMRA will mainly spearhead regulation and, therefore, inclusion of the police is not a problem. We will look at how we can include this before we conclude this Bill.

Madam Speaker, the last issue was on the timeframe. The issue of timeframe has to do with basically harmonising various pieces of legislation because in another Act there is a provision of thirty days. However, take note that the New Dawn Government is looking at this business of people applying for things and it is taking three months up to the last day before that licence is issued. I am sure that sometimes it may take longer and, therefore, if we –

The hon. Minister’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: Order!

You can wind up. Your time has expired.

Mrs Masebo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am winding up now.

Madam Speaker, we think that it is a matter that can also be considered. We can extend the timeframe from thirty days to sixty days, but hoping that the officers will not take the whole sixty days to issue that licence.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank everybody who has contributed to the debate and I am thankful for the support from hon. Members.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Friday, 24^th March, 2023.

THE TEACHING PROFESSION (Amendment) BILL, 2023

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read the second time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to provide a sense of appreciation over the Bill. The Bill provides for regulating teachers, their practice and professional conduct. It also provides for the accreditation of collages of education and also to revise the functions of the Teaching Council of Zambia (TCZ) and to provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, in view of the above, the Teaching Profession Act must be amended to provide for smooth coherence between Teaching Profession Act and the Zambia Qualifications Authority (ZAQA) and the Higher Education Authority (HEA) Acts whose interest were affected. The exercises will able players to coordinate and implement Acts professionally, efficiently and effectively. To avoid working in silos, and, at the same time, improve the councils operations, the ministry recommends amendments of the affected sections and parts.

The amendments and repeal of the sections will achieve the following:

Strengthening Higher Education Oversight

Madam Speaker, the amendment of the Teaching Profession Act No. 5 of 2013 will eliminate the conflict in the collage of education of education in the accreditation function which was transferred to the HEA when the higher education was amended in 2021. This was undertaken as part of the efforts to consolidate and strengthen oversight of higher education institutions in Zambia. The HEA is a regulatory body that oversees all higher education institutions in the country while TCZ focuses primarily on teachers’ adherence to the code of ethics and professional development. This development is expected to improve teacher performance by way of council guiding on the nature of the professional development programmes teachers must undertake.

Separation of Powers

Madam Speaker, the move to amend the Teaching Profession Act is driven by the need to separate the functions of the TCZ and the HEA by removing the responsibility for collage accreditation from the TCZ, the Government could be seeking to streamline its functions and reduce overlap between different agencies.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I recommend consequential amendments to the Act as no other option exists but to amend the Teaching Profession Act. Maintain the status quo is undesirable, as service delivery would continue to suffer due to the mandate and role conflicts among statutory bodies.

Madam Speaker, the ministry appeals to hon. Members of Parliament to support the introduction of this Bill in Parliament today and to amend the Teaching Profession Act to address the issues mention above.

I thank you Madam, Speaker

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference set out in Standing Orders No. 197(c) and 198(j) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, your Committee on Education, Science and Technology was tasked to scrutinise the Teaching Profession (Amendment) Bill N.A.B No.4 of 2023, for the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, referred to it by the House on Wednesday, 1^st March, 2023.

Madam Speaker, in carrying out this important task, your Committee interacted with various stakeholders who provided both written and oral submissions.

As the hon. Members may be aware, the Bill intends to revise the functions of the Teaching Council of Zambia (TCZ); and provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I will state from the outset that all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee supported the Bill as indicated in the report. In the same vein, your Committee equally supports the Bill.

Madam Speaker, since the hon. Members of this House have had the opportunity to read the Committee’s report, let me indicate that the Bill intends to revise the functions of the TCZ so as to harmonise the provisions of the Teaching Profession Act, 2013 with those of the Higher Education Act No. 4 of 2013 on matters relating to registration of colleges of education and accreditation of teacher education programmes.

Madam Speaker, once enacted, the duplication of regulatory functions relating to higher education institutions with respect to accreditation, and approval of qualifications and learning programmes which are the functions of the Higher Education Authority and the Zambia Qualifications Authority, respectively, will be resolved.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, allow me to place on record the gratitude of your Committee to all the stakeholders who tendered both written and oral submissions.  Your Committee also wishes to thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support services rendered to it throughout its deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, let me commend the Committee on Education Science and Technology’s Chairperson and the team for dedicating their time to examine the Bill methodically and for their progressive recommendations. In the same spirit, may I take this opportunity, to commend my team at the ministry and the Ministry of Justice for prioritising the drafting the law to promote an enabling environment for achieving credible and higher education standards.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House

Committee on Tuesday, 28^th March, 2023.

THE RURAL ELECTRIFICATION BILL, 2023

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for granting me this opportunity to highlight and outline the principles of the Rural Electrification Bill No.5 of 2023.

Madam Speaker, The Rural Electrification Act No. 20 was enacted in 2003 with the core objective of establishing the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) as a special purpose vehicle in increasing the availability and access to electricity in our rural areas

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of the House will agree with the Government that the past fourteen years have yielded various developmental challenges with regards to the electrification of our rural areas. This has necessitated the repealing and replacement of the current Act.

Madam Speaker, during the implementation period of the Act, the following operational challenges or gaps were identified:

1. the lack of a comprehensive definition section in the Act;
2. the need for REA to co-ordinate and avoid duplication of rural electrification with other stakeholders;
3. the failure to clearly distinguish between the functions of the REA and the board;
4. enhancement of the board composition;
5. corporate governance issues relating to the separation of board secretarial duties from the Chief Executive Officer;
6. the lack of establishment of prudent controls over the use of funds in the REA funds; and
7. the execution of judgements on property belonging to REA.

Madam Speaker, to address some of the gaps identified above, such as, the lack of distinction between the functions of REA and the board, the Bill has specifically provided for the functions of the board which are of strategic nature and include the following:

1. promotion of effective corporate governance of REA;
2. approval of policies, programmes and strategies, annual workplans, action plans, activity reports, annual budget estimates and financial statements; and
3. advising the hon. Minister on matters relating to rural electrification.

Madam Speaker, the Bill has further provided for the establishment of fiscal controls, accounting procedures governing the rural electrification funds, reporting procedures for matters relating to the Rural Electrification Fund and investment of the monies of the Rural Electrification Fund.

Madam Speaker, another key provision that has been included in the Bill is the vesting of the development to the review of the Rural Electrification Master Plan with the Ministry of Energy. The approach would ensure that REA focuses on implementing the Rural Electrification Master Plan.

Madam Speaker, to crown it all, the Bill has been aligned to legislation that is current, such as, the Public Debt Management Act No. 15 of 2022, the Public Finance Management Act No.1 of 2018 and to legislate governing similar statutory bodies administering and managing public funds.

Madam Speaker, the objects of the Bill are:

1. to promote and enhance rural electrification;
2. continue the existence of REA and to define its functions;
3. to constitute the board of the authority and provide for its functions;
4. continue the existence of the Rural Electrification Fund;
5. repeal and replace the Rural Electrification Act of 2003; and
6. provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I am hopeful that the proposed Rural Electrification Bill No.5 of 2023 will increase the electrification rate in rural areas as well foster socio-economic development in our country.

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to support this progressive Bill that will change, significantly, the lives of our people in the rural areas.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement. The Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism was tasked to scrutinise the Rural Electrification Bill No. 5 of 2023. In order to appreciate the ramifications of the Bill, the Committee sought both written and oral submissions from stakeholders.

Madam Speaker, let me state from the outset that your Committee is in support of the Bill. Let me also state that stakeholders who appeared before your Committee supported most of the proposed amendments to the Bill. Stakeholders, however, raised some concerns which are recorded in your Committee’s Report.

Madam Speaker, one of the concerns relates to Clause 2 of the Bill, where the definition for rural area does not include peri-urban areas, as was the case in the Act being repealed. This definition is likely to disadvantage many areas which are not necessarily in rural settings, but are in peri-urban areas and experiencing similar difficulties as those experienced by the people who live in the rural areas of the country. In this regard, your Committee strongly recommends that the definition of rural area under Clause 2 should include peri-urban areas for a holistic coverage of both rural and peri-urban areas in the provision and implementation of rural electrification.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observes that Clause 7 of the Bill does not provide for inclusion of institutions such as the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) on the board of the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), yet they are critical stakeholders in the provision of broad-based empowerment to the marginalised citizenry, especially those in the rural parts of the country.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, your Committee strongly recommends that the two entities be included on the board in order to assist in the provision of an oversight role on the operations of the authority. It is the view of your Committee that the inclusion of these institutions will also help to synchronise Government’s efforts of providing broad based empowerment to the marginalised sections of the Zambian society.

Madam Speaker, the Bill under Clause 15(2)(b) states that one of the sources of the Rural Electrification Fund is the Electricity Levy, yet there is no provision in the Bill which explicitly provides for REA to receive the Electricity Levy. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that it should be explicitly stated in the Bill, that three per cent of the Electricity Levy that ZESCO Limited collects should, within thirty days, be remitted into a separate account under the management of the authority. This will enable the authority to execute its operations in a timely and efficient manner.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observes that Clause 7(f) does not clearly define the qualifications of the three persons to be appointed by the hon. Minister and feels that the stated provision may lead to the appointment of unqualified persons who may not contribute effectively to the mandate of the authority. In this regard, your Committee strongly recommends that Clause 7(f) should highlight the professional qualifications of at least two out of the three persons to be appointed by the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, Clause 16 of the Bill provides for the hon. Minister to approve the use of funds in the Rural Electrification Fund, which, in your Committee’s view, is likely to cause an administrative hindrance and slow down the implementation of rural electrification projects. Further, this is likely to trigger political interference and political favouritism as projects may be approved on the basis of political patronage. In this regard, your Committee recommends that Clause 16 should be amended to remove the approval process of funds by the minister and replace it with the approval process of the funds being administered by the board of the Rural Electrification Authority (REA).

Madam Speaker, Clause 28, prohibits levying of execution against REA in the event of any judgment against it. Your Committee is concerned that this provision has the potential to affect operations of other entities and individuals who might be unable to execute judgments against the authority in an event that it defaults honouring its contractual obligations.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, your Committee recommends that Clause 28 be re-cast to limit to the immunity of authority to assets only. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the authority should be given a ninety-day period in which to compensate any offended party, failure to which the judgment passed against the authority should take effect.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to render my sincere gratitude to you, the Clerk of the National Assembly and his staff for the guidance and support rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations. I also thank the members of your Committee for having looked at this without any political bias in ensuring that we do that which we have been elected for and live this place better than we found it.

Madam Speaker, may I place on record my appreciation to the stakeholders who made submissions to your Committee on the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, any further debate. I see two indications. We will start with the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu Constituency followed by the hon. Member for Mbabala Constituency.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for, once again, giving me this opportunity to make a few comments on the amendments to the Rural Electrification Authority Bill.

Madam Speaker, this Bill is very critical to us, especially hon. Members who represent rural constituencies. I say so knowing that the mandate of the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) is to give our people who are in rural areas an opportunity to have access to electricity as a source of energy. Therefore, we support effects that are meant to improve the provisions of this piece of legislation.

Madam Speaker, I agree with the Chairperson of your Committee when he says that there must be clarity in the way we define rural and peri-urban areas. In the old Bill these were properly defined and, therefore, it is important that we do not leave out the peri-urban aspect of rural areas because some of the peri-urban areas we are talking about could be areas that are a few kilometres from district centres, but are also just typical rural areas.

Madam Speaker, I took interest in the issue raised by your Committee regarding Clause 16, which is talking about the rural electrification funds. The challenge we have had in the past of getting our people connected has been the lack of resources. As Parliament, we have been appropriating resources that are not adequate to cover most parts rural areas. It is under this clause where we need to know because some of the proposals that are coming from the Central Government, for example, local government suggesting the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) contributes to this fund without providing a legal framework might pose a challenge in future. All we have received are instructions that from CDF, there must be K1 million that goes to REA.

Madam Speaker, how is that fund going to be administered if it cannot be provided for in this Act? I heard the Acting hon. Minister referring to some pieces of legislation, but there was no mention, for example, of the Local Government Act and Constituency Development Fund Act. So, what are we doing? We cannot just be making pronouncements that are not backed by law. Yes, it is desirable for hon. Members to contribute to the electrifying of their rural areas, but it must be structured and backed by a legal framework.

So, we would like the Acting hon. Minister, as we are make amendments, to talk about the source of funds that go into the Rural Electrification Fund and how this fund should be disbursed. What I expect is that if money is deducted from the Shiwang’andu CDF, it should be applied in Shiwang’andu. I heard the Acting hon. Minister refer to the Public Financial Management Act and state that in applying funds from this fund, there must be adherence to the provisions of the Public Financial Management Act.

Madam Speaker, we need to be sure when we are getting funds from the CDF, that they are going to be spent in line with the Public Financial Management Act. So, these are things that we would like the hon. Minister, as he polishes up the Bill, to provide for in the Act. It is very key because all of us here are just wondering that if K1 million is going to the pool, then who access the funds from the pool. Furthermore, what will be the model for people to access funds from REA?

Madam Speaker, I would have also loved to see some deliberate provisions to cater for those rural areas where power is being generated from. If, for example, in Siavonga, where power is generated, our people are just able to see the power lines cutting across the villages and they cannot even have any benefits from that electricity, it does not help. So, we would like the Acting hon. Minister to think about that.

Madam Speaker, in Shiwang’andu, where we have a mini generating power plant, how should the people benefit, through REA, other than just seeing poles running across and on top of their villages going to a few privileged citizens. So, it is very important that we take note of such requirements through the piece of legislation that he has brought. He has time to do some amendments and it is important that he takes that on board.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of the composition of the board, when we are talking about rural communities, who represents the rural communities? Who speaks for them on this board?

Madam Speaker, if they just take people who do not know what Shiwang’andu is, or its challenges, those people will just be sitting in those air-conditioned boardrooms and making decisions on assumptions. So, when they are providing for the composition of the board, it is prudent that they think of representation from rural areas. For instance, local authorities can be brought on board to see how they can represent our people from rural areas. They are the beneficiaries.

Madam Speaker, I hope the Acting hon. Minister will apply his mind to these thoughts and ensure that they are taken on board, more especially our contribution from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). If it is going to be sustained, we do not just want to sit this year and next year again, we contribute maybe, K2 million. The law does not provide for that application and no legal framework backs the policy. So, we will be going round in cycles.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last as I earlier guided, is the hon. Member for Mbabala.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the good people of Mbabala, I thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the Rural Electrification Bill, which I ultimately support, given that Mbabala is a rural area that has been marginalised for many years. In the last ten years, we have had no electricity connections to new areas such as Mang’unza and well-developed areas such as Simaubi, Kabaze and many other areas of Mbabala Constituency, which were neglected despite having qualified for rural electrification.

Madam Speaker, I am glad that this Bill seeks to enhance rural electrification and I am happy that the House of Chiefs has been listed as a stakeholder to help us with rural representation. This to me implies that, for example, His Royal Highness Chief Mapanza from the Southern Province, who is one of the representatives in the House of Chiefs, will be one of the people hopefully, who could be co-opted into this new board. That would enable us get good information because he will point out all the areas that need electrification, being an experienced citizen. So, the House of Chiefs will play a crucial role in ensuring that the rural areas are taken care of in terms of electrification.

Madam Speaker, I also support the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP), but I want to point out that it must be on equitable basis. We saw, in the last ten years that in certain areas of the country, even grass thatched houses were electrified. However, in our areas, despite having all the right houses, business centres, schools and health centres, none of these were electrified. So, I urge the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) that the master plan must bring about equity to constituencies such as Mbabala who are behind in as far as electrification is concerned so that they are equally electrified. There are areas such as Silukwiya, Simunzele and Tisikilila, which do not have electricity, need to be electrified.

Madam Speaker, I also want to speak on the electricity levy. I support your Committee’s report which says that the 3 per cent collected by ZESCO Limited need to be locked or ring-fenced so much that the 3 per cent is remitted to REA within thirty days so that REA is able to accelerate the connection of rural areas.

Further, we want to see a monitoring mechanism to REA’s work in ensuring that these funds are being received and utilised to connect rural areas. As the caucus on the African Parliamentarians’ Network on Development Evaluation (APNODE), we are interested in monitoring and evaluation. So, this to me, should be a monitoring issue to ensure that REA is receiving funds timely, using them effectively and reporting to connect rural areas like the various parts in Mbabala Constituency, which I have mentioned such as Kabanze, Mayobo and Maobwe. All such areas need to be connected.

Madam Speaker, I note that the funds received by REA will be authorised by the hon. Minister, but I want to support the aspect of audit. These funds must be audited by the Auditor-General in order to provide checks and balances and assure the public on what is going on regarding the work of REA.

Madam Speaker, I also want to touch on sustainable development. REA also needs to start working with some of our innovations that are happening elsewhere. Like I mentioned the other time to Hon. Mutati, we also have other opportunities to work with rural innovators such as one of my boys in Mbabala Constituency who has innovated rural electrification using the biomass. Today, His Excellency was awarding innovators at State House. We want to see innovators allowed in this sector so that we can utilise these talented young men and women in rural areas to accelerate connection. What we want is power that is going to improve and create jobs for many others and improve the quality of life. The recruited over 30,000 teachers, over 12,000 health workers, and many others who are going to be recruited this year, all these people will want to live in electrified houses in our rural areas, where we have sent them as the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government. So, the way we are going to do it is to allow innovators to be part and parcel of this so that we can accelerate the provision of electricity to all such people so much that they can enjoy quality life because with water and electricity in your house, your life changes forever. You would be able to do much. People will do better in their homework and many other things. They will also provide better quality services at the health centre and the like.

Madam Speaker, I talked about equity for marginalised areas like Mbabala Constituency. The bringing in of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to rural electrification is an excellent move by the Government through His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema because these will accelerate the electrification of our centres. For Example, in my constituency, Mbala Constituency, we have already selected Simaubi Centre, which already has a new secondary school, a primary school, health centre, an agriculture shade and many other shops. So, these are the centres we would like to be electrified. We have day secondary schools, where we have boarders such Mang’unza. Such are the centres we would like to be electrified. We also have the palace for His Royal Highness Chief Mapanza, in Mang’unza area. Therefore, the directive to allocate K1 million, from the CDF, towards electrification every year, resulting in 156 connections in the country, is an excellent move by the Government and it needs to be applauded.

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: Your time is up hon. Member, wind up.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I thank you and I want to indicate that this country will change forever. With the best, exclusion is now over.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Members who have debated on this Bill. Of particular attention, are the comments made by the Chairperson of the Committee, Hon. Romeo Kangombe, who talked about the Rural Electrification Authority (REA’s) definition not referring to peri urban areas. I take note of that comment. I also heard the same from the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu. Let me just say that REA’s funding is about 3 per cent of the revenues from ZESCO Limited. So, we have to be careful how we overload that budget by increasing the number of areas that are catered for it. Considering that peri-urban areas will continue to be serviced by ZESCO Limited, if you include them in REA, that means either you need more funds, in other words, you take a bigger percentage from ZESCO Limited funds or, indeed, you concentrate on rural areas as the definition of REA.

Madam Speaker, the Chairperson talked about Clause 7 not including some bodies such as the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), and so on and so forth. Further, he said that the qualifications of the three persons to be appointed to the board by the hon. Minister have not been defined. I think that is an area that gives the hon. Minister, of course working for and on behalf of the Zambian people, the ability to bring in people who may not hold the qualifications that we know such as degrees. The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu talked about people who represent rural areas, and the hon. Minister can take advantage of that, including other specifications such as non-governmental organisations (NGOs) who work specifically in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, Clause 16 states that the hon. Minister can determine how some funds are used, but the Chairperson said that must be replaced with a board. I think, probably, that makes good sense in terms of governance. So, we will look at that aspect.

Madam Speaker, the controversial issue was in Clause 28, on the prohibition of the execution of judgment to affect other bodies that depend or do business and, again, it was raised by the Chairperson. Let me make it very clear. This clause is not unique to REA. I think on the Floor of this House, most Bills that have been brought referring to statutory bodies have this clause. Clause 28 says as follows:

“Where a judgement or court order is obtained against the Authority, execution, attachment or process of any nature, shall not be issued against the Authority or against any property of the Authority.”

This is really to protect public property. It does not stop aggrieved parties from going to court. It also does not stop the court from passing judgement. All it says is that judgment can be effected in terms of what is prescribed. However, it will not go to the extent of the assets of the authority. If you look at other statutory bodies, that clause is exactly the same.

Madam Speaker, in the main, there is a lot of support including from the hon. Member for Mbabala, Mr Munsanje, –

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, your time is up. Can you kindly wind up.

Eng. Milupi: We also took note of marginalised areas, Madam Speaker. I thank those who have debated, and for the support they have rendered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 23^rd March, 2023.

Madam Speaker: Order!

________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT: URGE THE GOVERNMENT TO VENTURE INTO MEASURES FOR CROP DIVERSIFICATION

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Madam Speaker: Notice of an item for debate on the Motion of Adjournment of the House has been received. However, before we proceed with that, let me just give some guidance.

Hon. Members, before I call upon the hon. Member for Chilubi to present his subject for debate, let me guide the House as follows.

Subjects for debate on the Adjournment Motion is provided for under Standing Order 30 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021. Although the duration of debating a subject under this provision in a case where adjournment of the House takes place long before the automatic time of adjournment is not stated, the intention and practice has always been to debate the subject for a minimum of forty-five minutes. After that, the House adjourns without question put, and the subject lapses.

In this regard, the subject by the hon. Member for Chilubi will last forty-five minutes.

Interruptions

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The murmurs are not helping.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Mr Fube: We are here to work.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, as the Motion states, the people of Chilubi urge the Government to venture into measures for crop diversification.

Madam Speaker, this is based on the background that, currently, Zambia is promoting a mono-crop arrangement in terms of farming in the country. Allow me to demonstrate by quoting a few statistics that are self-compiled from the crop survey data of the Zambia Statistical Agency (ZamStats) for the farming season of 2019.

Madam Speaker, in terms of hectarage, maize was at 1,655,624 ha, groundnuts was at 269,611 ha, soya beans was at 231,630 ha –

Some hon. Members left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam Speaker: Order!

At the rate that hon. Members are exiting the House, the quorum will collapse. Please, hon. Whips, ensure that your Members stay in the House.

May the hon. Member for Chilubi, continue.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the hectarage for cotton was 113,649 and for sunflower, it was 105,184. This is coupled with the allocation of fertiliser this year. According to the statistics, the Government spent about US$330 million. The allocation was 120,380.25 tonnes for Compound D fertiliser and 120,380.25 for urea fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, you will agree with me that these are predominant fertilisers that we use every rainy season and that being the case, it means that if you look at the numbers I have presented, it also consolidates the mono-cropping arrangement of our agricultural system which leads us to a situation where we do not leave room for other crops that may facilitate the growth of the economy, nutritional value and many other things that the country may need.

Madam Speaker, allow me to indicate the potential that Zambia has for the call that the people of Chilubi are making toady on the crop diversification. You will allow me to quote a Bemba proverb where we say:

“Amennshi balinga no bunga”.

This means that what we have is what we have to do with a situation.

Madam Speaker, we are only utilising 15 per cent of our arable land. That is a reality. This means that we have vast potential in all the ten provinces. Zambia sits between latitude of 8 deg and 18 deg south and between the longitude of 22 deg and 34 deg east, and is influenced by the Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ). This gives rise to three agro-ecological zone areas which are gifted in some way.

Mr Mpundu interjected.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I do not think that I would conduct my business well with the behaviour with the hon. Member for Nkana.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Maybe, he can be taken care of.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Sorry, I did not even follow. What is the issue, hon. Member for Chilubi?

Mr Fube: He has been making noise throughout because he is in protest that I have brought this Motion when he wants to go and rest.

Madam Speaker: No! You are within your rights. You can proceed.

Hon. Members do not interrupt the hon. Member on the Floor.

Mr Fube: This young man is very disturbing.

Madam Speaker, I was on the ecological zones. I know that the subject matter may very big for him to understand so, he is having problems.

Madam Speaker, –

Mr Mpundu: Ah!

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, when I was talking about the ecological zones, I was trying to underscore the agricultural potential that Zambia has. We can grow different crops in the three ecological zones and they can cover all the ten provinces of the country. You will realise that one of our realities, influenced by the ITCZ, is that we only have a single rainy season and we have savannah vegetation. As I said earlier, the rainfall is influenced mainly by the ITCZ coupled with effects of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO).

Madam Speaker, I also need to realise a reality that in terms of rainfall, we have the lowest of 600 mm and the highest of 1,300 mm and that is our potential. Further, later on, since I will be addressing the chagrin of the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana on the issue, solutions have to be provided because I cannot raise this Motion without providing solutions.

Madam Speaker, we also have 20 per cent of surface water in the southern African region as well as 40 per cent of ground water in the southern African region. The priority sector in terms of diversifying of our economy has always been given to the agricultural sector. Different Governments have tried to do the prioritisation in order to shift the economy from mainly the mineral dominated one to an agricultural economy.

Madam Speaker, I will do a disservice to not mention some of the gaps that different Governments have grappled with. Part of the reason is that when you look at the pre-Independence as well as the post-Independence periods, you will notice that most of the commercial farming, which was involved in a multi-crop arrangement, had been dominated by settlers and their descendants from the Euro Block. That being the case, we have a situation where we have left multi-crop farming to the settlers who settled before Independence and that trend has continued to date. Alas, you will find that the commercial farmers are only doing their farming along the line of rail and along the trunk roads of the country.

Madam Speaker, let me bring to your attention –

Mr Mpundu: Ah!

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, may I be protected from this charlatan because he will be part of my speech very soon, to his embarrassment.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, as you debate, please, do not address the hon. Members. Speak through the presiding officer.

Mr Fube: He is very disturbing, Madam Speaker. You have no idea and he is closer to me.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, please do not interject.

Mr Fube: I will sweep him into a debate and he will be embarrassed.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

What is your point of order, hon. Member for Lumezi?

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for permitting me to rise on a serious point of order especially that I am raising it on an hon. Member on your left.

Madam Speaker, I take you to Standing Order 59. Of late, I have been avoiding using the Standing Orders because I rely on the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, but I take to Standing Order No. 59.

Madam, the hon. Member on the Floor is going beyond the time limit of Standing Orders 59. Is he in order? I need your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The only difficulty is that on Motions of this nature, there is no time limit. So, he can either talk alone for forty-five minutes or he will yield his time to somebody else to debate, but since he loves to talk, I think –

Laughter

Madam Speaker: As we do that, just bear in mind that the quorum has collapsed.

So, please, can the whips make sure that we have a quorum.

The bells will have to be rung.

Business was suspended from 1917 hours until 1923 hours.

Madam Speaker: It appears we will not have a quorum. I have seen hon. Members who have arrived from nowhere.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1923 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 23^rd March, 2023.

 

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