Thursday, 16^th March, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I just want to remind the House on matters of urgent public importance because we seem to be abusing this Standing Order. Two weeks ago, there was an announcement by the Hon. Second Deputy Speaker, who read what I am going to talk about. The statement said that hon. Members should be aware that the essence of a matter of public importance is to bring to the attention of the House and the Executive a widespread event in the country. The event should not be peculiar to only a small section of the country. This includes constituencies. If we have got matters that are specific to constituencies, please, raise urgent questions because we seem to waste a lot of time, even if we know that our matter is not admissible.

In this regard, we have to look at the agenda that we have today. I think we have been reading the Standing Orders over and over again. So, can we please stick to the provisions of Standing Order 134 to save time.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON THE ARREST OF GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the guidance that you give to this House on how to raise these matters of urgent public importance. Before I cite the Standing Orders, permit me to seek authority from the Republican Constitution, which gives us authority and privileges to speak in the House and we know very well that the Standing Orders are generated from the Republican Constitution.

Madam Speaker, Article 76 is very clear –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think let us not mix the two. As much as there is the Constitution for the whole country, this House has got its own rules that we have to follow. We cannot follow everything that is out there because we are very specific on our rules. This is the House which generated the rules that we are supposed to follow. The Standing Orders are what we have to follow when we are in this House.

You may proceed.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I thought that there was supremacy of the Constitution. Nevertheless, I am directing my matter of urgent public importance at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, I have perused through Standing Order 134 and nowhere does it tell us that the matter should be life threatening, but it is something that should interest the public. We have seen videos circulating today, and I will be laying the flash disk as evidence on the Table. The people involved in the sugilite scandal have been detained for more than seven days in Luapula Province, Mansa District in particular. Names are being mentioned from the cells and the police officers are being challenged on why they are not arresting the people who have been mentioned.

Madam Speaker, it could interest the House to know why I am interested in this matter. Lumezi Constituency is a mineral-wealthy region. If the illegalities that are taking place in Mansa are ignored and suspects who are being mentioned are not arrested, tomorrow, I will wake up and find that in Lumezi, people have started transporting gold illegally and some of us are part of this House.

Madam Speaker, just two weeks ago, maize was stolen in Lumezi by a government official, who was later released on police bond, but the issue is quiet. Furthermore, the names of people who are involved in the sugilite scandal are being mentioned on video by a council chairperson and the deputy national youth chairperson of administration in the Ruling Party.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to be seated comfortably here without addressing this matter?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling, and with your permission, permit me to lay the flash disk on the Table.

Mr Munir Zulu laid the flash disk on the Table.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON TRIBALISM

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance under Standing Order 134.

Madam Speaker, this matter is directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House and all of us in here. This is about tribalism. Tribalism –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

When you raise a matter of urgent public importance, you are supposed to direct it at the Executive, yet you have said that it is directed at all of us here. How it going to be attended to if it is addressed to all of us?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. This matter is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, this is about tribalism. Tribalism is a cancer which can divide our nation. If we allow it to continue, Zambia will be divided and our children will come and blame this generation which is in here.

Madam Speaker, I woke up in a rude of shock –

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Hear, hear! Tiyeni!

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: This is politics. When someone is talking, people should be –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, please, use English words well so that people listening can move with you. Can you, maybe, also be a bit more serious with your urgent matter.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

The term is ‘rude shock’, but my mentor in politics told me that I should make the words opposite, so that people understand well, as they are laughing and celebrating.

Madam Speaker, this is about the council chairperson for Mwense and group, who are detained. I am sure they were busy – I do not know whether, with your permission, I can play the clip or I should lay it on the Table. This council chairperson mentioned something about tribes and said that certain tribes have been left alone, while other tribes have been kept in custody. Things should not be like this because if someone has broken the law, the issue of tribe is not supposed to come in. If we let things continue like this, I am sure that by 2026, this nation will be divided.

So, we seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker, so that we can put up something to stop this tribalism before it goes and spreads like a cancer.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

MR MUKOSA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHINSALI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ENG. MILUPI, ON THE STATE OF THE CHINSALI/MULILANSOLO ROAD IN CHINSALI

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to rise on a matter of urgent public importance, which is directed at the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Madam Speaker, there is a road which goes from Chinsali to Mulilansolo. It is referred to as the Chinsali/Mulilansolo Road. This road is very important as it is used on a daily basis by those who move from Chinsali to Chilinda area. Chilinda area has many wards and villages. People also use the road from Chilinda to Chinsali. The part between Kampemba and Mundu, on this road, has now become impassable due to heavy rains.

Now, what happens is that when our workers in the health sector want to transport people from Mulilansolo and take them to Chinsali Boma for treatment, they fail to pass through that stretch. They get stranded. In other cases, they use the Great North Road that passes through Kafwimbi and Nambuluma to get to Chinsali.

Madam Speaker, the risk is that in an event that they get stuck there, they have to go around to get to Chinsali and that takes so long such that if a patient is very sick, it can even lead to his/her death. So, I wanted to find out whether there is any Government intervention that can be made, to help in reducing these problems that we have at the moment.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence and thank you.

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE IMPACT OF CYCLONE FREDDY ON CHAMA DISTRICT

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, we are aware that the Tropical Cyclone Freddy has had catastrophic consequences in Malawi. At the moment, its remnants have actually caused devastating effects in parts of Chama North and Chama South. Many wards, both in Chama North and Chama South, have been affected, leaving several homes collapsed and crops destroyed. Currently, more than 100 households do not have accommodation, tents or food. They also have no access to clean and safe drinking water.

Madam Speaker, I have been in touch with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) co-ordinator in Chama, who was sent there to co-ordinate the issues of the hunger situation. We appreciate the Government for having sent that person to co-ordinate the issues of the hunger situation there. However, the situation is so desperate that our officers are not able to go to Chama South and Chama North because the roads are not accessible. They cannot cross the Kampemba River because there is no bridge. Chama South is also not accessible.

I seek your serious indulgence in this matter, Madam Speaker.

MR ANAKOKA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUENA, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE RETURN OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT TO ACTIVE POLITICS

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of very urgent public importance and it is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, following the elections of 2021, the former Republican President purportedly resigned from his position as president of the Patriotic Front (PF), which was the governing party prior to the elections. This morning, we woke up to a newspaper report –

Hon. Members: A rude of shock!

Mr Anakoka: We woke up to a rude of shock.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: We woke up to a newspaper report in the Zambia Daily Mail of 16^th March, 2023 to the effect that the supposedly Acting Secretary-General of the PF submitted before a court of law that the president, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, of the PF had not actually resigned. It was further stated that the purported resignation is yet to take effect when the PF members have a convention, whenever that is going to be.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance is this: Is the Government in order to continue spending money and according the status of a former Head of State on the basis of him having resigned and left active politics when, in fact, the party he was in charge of says he is still in active politics?

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker, on this important matter of urgent public importance.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The hon. Member for Lumezi raised a matter in which he talked about the sugilite scandal and said that some people have not been arrested even when their names were mentioned. What I can say about this matter, hon. Member, is that it is not admissible. First of all, this is an issue that was already discussed. There was a ministerial statement over the same within this meeting. Secondly, investigations are still ongoing.

The hon. Member for Petauke Central talked about tribalism being a cancer and that it can divide our nation, although I am not clear as to where this is happening. This matter, again, is not admissible because it is not a new thing. This issue has been discussed over and over again and that this country should unite. In fact, even in the previous Government, there was talk about tribalism. Now, we are in the New Dawn Government and there is still talk about this issue. So, it is something that is not new.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, when you are raising such matters, try to be very specific and clear because I was not clear as to where this problem is happening.

The hon. Member for Chinsali talked about a road that has become impassable and that patients who are picked from the communities have to go round and take longer routes to reach the clinics.

Hon. Member, the way you phrased this matter is like you were raising a question. You took a segment of this issue and raised your own question. So, I advise you, hon. Member, to go ahead and raise a question. This scenario which the hon. Member mentioned is not only peculiar to Chinsali but also, many other places especially, during the rainy season.

The hon. Member for Chama North raised a matter to Her Honour the Vice-President and he talked about Cyclone Freddy, which has hit Malawi and it has also affected certain wards in his constituency. He talked about not having food and clean water for the people. However, the hon. Member mentioned that he has actually consulted the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to move in. The Government has been working together with the hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Member, since the Government is aware about the situation, and it has also started doing something towards that problem, you can just ask a follow-up question, since there are other issues that you mentioned such as lack of food and water. What extra help you can get from DMMM, since it is already working with you? So, you can raise an urgent question as a way of making a follow up to the same issue.

The hon. Member of Parliament for Luena, raised a matter of urgent public importance to Her Honour the Vice-President that the former Republican President had resigned from active politics but again, he is still active. He wanted to know whether the Government was in order to continue giving him a salary.

Hon. Member of Parliament for Luena, again this is not a matter ...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... that requires urgent attention. It is very important, but you can find a correct way of raising it.

I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

ESCAPE FROM PRISON OF THE ABDUCTORS OF MOBILE MONEY AGENTS

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to issue a ministerial statement on the matter of urgent public importance raised by Mr Francis Kapyanga, Hon. Member for Mpika Constituency, on the escape from prison of the abductors of mobile money agents and other girls that was in public domain, at New Mwembezhi Remand Prisons and Correctional Centre in Chilanga District.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that on 26^th February, 2023, around 1300 hours, the Zambia Correctional Service at the new Mwembezhi Remand Prison and Correctional Centre recorded one escape incidence in which two convicts and one remandee escaped after scaling the perimeter wall fence of the facility. The two convicts were admitted to the facility for the offence of stock theft while the remandee was admitted for the offence of aggravated robbery.

Madam Speaker, on the same date and time, the Zambia Correctional Service recorded an incidence in which one remandee, who is one of the two suspects arrested in connection with the alleged abduction of Pamela Chisupa and twelve others, attempted to escape. The remandee climbed the wall fence and jumped off but injured himself on landing. He was recaptured immediately thereafter, and he is receiving medical attention under the custody of the Zambia Correctional Service. The remandee was admitted to the facility in December, 2022. Contrary to stories circulating on some media platforms that there was a shooting incidence which occurred at the facility, I wish to confirm that there was no gun shot fired at the convicts or remandees.

Madam Speaker, on 28^th February, 2023, one of the convicts was recaptured while the other convict was recaptured on 4^th March, 2023, around 2330 hours in Linda compound. Out of the three escapees, only one of them is still at large.

Madam Speaker, the two suspects in the Pamela Chisupa abduction case are safe and still under the custody of the Zambia Correctional Service. The two suspects in the abduction case are classified as high risk and the ministry, through the Zambia Correctional Service, has been applying appropriate measures consistent with the control and management of high-risk inmates. You may wish to note that inmates classified as high risk also pose a high threat of flight.

Madam Speaker, the Zambia Correctional Service has put in place measures to disrupt and thwart attempts to escape from lawful custody. The following are some of the measures being implemented:

1. enhancement of intelligence gathering;
2. establishment of rapid escape and recapture task force;
3. stern sanctions for officers who through complacency, negligence or otherwise, contribute to security breach;
4. putting in place a policy of promotion for officers who through personal commitment, dedication and courage successfully, recapture any escapee particularly, those who have been at large for a long time; and
5. putting in place a whistle-blower policy and monetary rewards to informers who avail information leading to successful recapture of escapees.

Madam Speaker, the successful implementation of security measures requires concerted efforts from all stakeholders. In this regard, I call upon members of the public to work with the Zambia Correctional Service to curb escapes and provide information that could lead to the recapture of escapees. I would also like to sound a strong warning to those contemplating to escape from lawful custody, members of the public and individuals with the intention of aiding or harbouring escapees as they will be committing a crime for doing so.

Madam Speaker, I appeal to media houses to be cautious when reporting on issues of security nature as their reporting could have negative outcomes.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for allowing me to ask the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, the basis for the hon. Minister’s statement today is the urgent matter that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika. When raising the urgent matter, the hon. Member referred to a news item in the News Diggers newspaper of 6^th March, 2023. The News Diggers newspaper reported contrary to the statement that the hon. Minister has issued today. Is the hon. Minister, therefore, informing the nation through this august House that the News Diggers newspaper lied and misinformed the public on the reported escape? I raise this question with so much gratitude to the media for exposing certain items. Is the hon. Minister saying that the News Diggers newspaper lied when it reported the news item?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon Member for Kamfinsa, kindly withdraw the word ‘lied’ and replace it with another word.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, I did not ask you to repeat the question. I said the word ‘lied’ is unparliamentary. Can you please withdraw it and replace it with a better word.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I replace the word ‘lied’ with misinformed the nation. Is that the position hon. Minister?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I would like to repeat my statement. The statement I have issued to this House is the correct version of events that occurred at Mwembezhi Correctional Facility. It is up to the Members of this House and the general public to deduce.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement. Now that the hon. Minister has confirmed that the trio are still incarcerated, is he in a position to state whether they have started appearing in the courts of law? If not, are the police still putting their case together?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I want to confirm that the accused persons will be appearing in court soon. The investigations have been concluded and the dockets are with the Director of Public Prosecution (DPP).

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chisopa: That is why you are killing yourselves (Pointing at the hon. Government Members).

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon Member!

Please avoid exchanging words on the Floor of the House.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, he must be taught.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you please focus on your question.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. The question the hon. Member for Kamfinsa asked is: Did the News Diggers newspaper misinform the nation or should we follow what the hon. Minister said? Who is telling the truth between the News Diggers newspaper and the hon. Minister?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Mkushi South, you should have just raised a question because if you ask me as Presiding Officer, of course, I will say the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is telling us what is existing in his ministry, but it is better you just raise another question on the issue. We know that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is telling us what is happening in his ministry.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the statement. When we came here, we swore to defend and protect the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia. Part 1 of the Constitution talks about the supremacy of the Constitution and that any other law that is inconsistent with the provisions of the Constitution shall be declared null and void. I will continue relying on the Constitution in this House and outside the House, because I believe in supremacy and I swore to defend and protect the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has told us that very soon, the abductors will appear in court. The girls who were abducted and the witnesses are all breathing. How soon is soon because when the police went to Chalala to rescue the girls after being alerted by the residents of that neighborhood, they told us that the abductors would soon appear in court, but it has been more than five months. So, how soon is soon? What is it that they are protecting? May the hon. Minister give us a definite answer.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the statements made by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi, who talked about the supremacy of the Constitution and that any other law that is inconsistent cannot be seen to be legal. That is his position. Let me remind him that the provisions of the Constitution give the Director of Public Prosecution (DPP) the mandate to prosecute any accused persons in this country and the law further states that no person should interfere with the operations of the DPP. I, therefore, inform the hon. Member that I am a law-abiding citizen and I swore to defend the Constitution. I shall not interfere in the operations of the DPP.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has confirmed that the abductors are still in police custody. However, I am concerned about the one who is at large and is facing the charge of aggravated robbery. There have been many cases of aggravated robbery, especially in Kamwala area. I want to find out whether his ministry is working closely with institutions such as ZICTA and other law enforcing institutions to help in circulating the identity of the criminal at large.

Mr. Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as I indicated, we are working with security institutions and other stakeholders to ensure that the other culprit, who is on the run, is apprehended and put back into the correctional facility, where he is supposed to be.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Thank you Madam Speaker and I thank the hon. Minister for that statement. There is information in the News Diggers newspaper that the victims decided to physically go to New Mwembezhi Remand Prison to verify for themselves if indeed their abductors were at large. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if at all they were given an opportunity to verify for themselves?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, let me inform my colleague, the nation and the House that the law does not allow anyone to access prison facilities unless sanctioned by myself or the Commissioner General of the Zambia Correctional Services.

Madam Speaker, let me confirm that we, as the Government, authorised the victims to visit the facilities and identity the two accused persons because of what was in the media reports, and that was done.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has timely warned all those under detention to not contemplate escaping from lawful custody. Today, in connection with that warning, there is a report that twelve suspects have escaped from Kalomo Police Station. They are still at large and obviously endangering the peace of the country. Why have the incidents of escaping from police custody or indeed correctional services become common now? Has anything changed in terms of regulations or administration of the detention facilities? It now seems like gates are opening freely for detainees to escape from lawful custody?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the question relating to the alleged escapees in Kalomo is unrelated to the issue I was addressing on the floor of the House. If the hon. Member would like me to comment on that, I will do so at a later stage but let me state and inform him that escapes  from prisons used to be more prevalent in the past and evidence is there, if he wants me to produce it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, can we please stick to the contents of the ministerial statement.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, let me make a follow-up on the question that the Member of Parliament of Kamfinsa asked the hon. Minster. My question is about the News Diggers newspaper. The hon. Minister has just informed the House that the version he has given the House and the nation is the correct one.

Her Honour the Vice-President left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may proceed.

Mr Mutale: Thank you Madam Speaker, I am aware that alarming the nation is a serious offence. My question to the hon. Minister is that if indeed the News Diggers newspaper misled the nation, what action is he going to take against the News Diggers newspaper because it is plain and clear that it misled all of us? He has just warned it to desist from doing so.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I hope all of us were listening to my statement. I will repeat what I said for the sake of my colleague, with your permission. I did indicate and state that I appeal to media houses to be cautious when reporting on issues of security nature as their reporting could have negative outcomes. I did not at any time blame the News Diggers newspaper and neither did I at any time state that it misled the nation. I did not say that. I said the media must be cautious. When you are cautious, it is different from being careless.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, cases of abduction are crimes just like cases of corruption and stealing from the people of Zambia. Could the hon. Minister kindly help me understand, on this beautiful afternoon, why there is so much of a rush in pushing him, from some people, so that the case be moved quickly. However, the same people are failing to push the minister on other cases, yet there are so many cases and many criminals out there who committed a number of crimes. Some of them are here. Why are they not pushing for other cases to be quickened?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bweengwa. Please, be reminded that we are not supposed to discuss ourselves. Let us not discuss ourselves. Is it possible that you focus on the question that you had without bringing in hon. Members of this house?

Mr Michelo: Thank you, Madam speaker. Why is there so much interest on the three criminals forgetting the hundreds of criminals who have stolen from the people of Zambia?

Hon. Member: On a point of order.

Hon Members: Why?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, let me just allay the fear that is with my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa. He will see the momentum very soon …

Hon Members: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: … on all those who are alleged to have taken away the resources of the country illegally and whose cases are supposed to be in court. They will be appearing in court very soon, their cases will be concluded very soon, and some of them will be crying very soon.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, before I take the point of order by the hon. Leader of Opposition, let me guide. The ministerial statement was very clear; it was talking about people who escaped from a certain prison. Now, we are trying to expand the ministerial statement. Can we please stick to the ministerial statement.

The hon. Leader of Opposition, what is your point of order?

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. My point of order relates to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, you have guided on several occasions. I remember that not very long ago, one of your hon. Members on your left brought up the issue that an hon. Member of Parliament from the right was reported in the Auditor-General’s report, that he had been earning money even after he was elected. You asked the hon. Member to withdraw so that the Hansard remains clear. We are, therefore, surprised as a House that you directed the hon. Member for Bweengwa to withdraw the statement where he alleged that there were some criminals in this House, yet he proceeded without withdrawing the statement. This means the information will remain in the Hansard.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to remain in his seat without withdrawing the statement, thereby misinforming the House that you actually have criminals in this House and yet not?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think we are now trying to put the Presiding Officer in an awkward position. The rules are straightforward. When somebody is told to withdraw a statement, he/she just has to do just that. If he/she does not want to withdraw, then we will go ahead and name the person. Bear with us because sometimes we tend to be so busy listening here and there. However, once you are instructed to withdraw a statement, please withdraw the statement. Otherwise, now we are going to apply the Standing Order that talks about naming the hon. Member, and you know the repercussion when an hon. Member is named. It requires that the hon. Member is suspended. So, please, let us stick to our Standing Orders and bring sanity to the House.

So, hon. Member for Bweengwa, is it possible for you to withdraw the statement so that we make progress?

Hon. PF Members: Let him go out!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I am talking to the hon. Member!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, there was a point of order. Do you want us to continue with the point of order? I am trying to end the point of order in a correct manner. Why are we arguing? What do you want me to tell the hon. Member to do?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I have told him to withdraw the statement, but you are already making noise. That is not how it is supposed to be.

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, please, withdraw the statement.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, I am well-guided. Let me withdraw the statement I made that the criminals who plundered national resources in the previous regime are here. I withdraw and replace it with “they are not in this House”. I thank you very much and I apologise.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us make progress.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, the case of Pamela Chisumpa and others should not be trivialised because it brought about a lot of emotions from Zambians. You can imagine being raped for over six months. This case is dragging on and we are wondering why.

Madam Speaker, what measures has the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security taken to charge the officers who were on duty on that day? These are hard core criminals. Had one of them not fallen down, he would have been on the run abducting other girls. We do not want this situation to continue or occur again. What measures has the ministry taken to charge the officers who were on duty so that we do not deduce that it was a planned move?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the question that has been raised by my hon. Colleague is speculative. So, I will not start answering speculative questions. I did mention what we have done pertaining to the escapees. I would not go further to mention to this House how we apprehended them and what measures we have taken because it is a security issue.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, one of the measures the hon. Minister has put in place includes having an intelligence taskforce, addressing complacency, giving promotions and creating a whistle-blowing policy. How secure is Mwembeshi Remand Prison and Correctional Centre if four or five suspects can escape at the same time? Is the infrastructure safe enough to hold these evil doers who caused a lot of harm to us women especially?

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. My point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65, and it is on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, two questions which are very important and related have been posed to the hon. Minister by two hon. Members. The hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi asked when these cases will commence and how soon is soon. The hon. Minister was very categorical. He is a law-abiding citizen and cannot interfere in the operations of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). A similar question in context was asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa. He asked when the cases of those criminals would start moving. The hon. Minister said very soon, those people will start going to court and some of them will even start crying.

Madam Speaker, the manner of speech and consistency! What should we take, as your hon. Members and law-abiding citizens who know that for some, it will be soon that they will start crying, and for others, the hon. Minister does not know because the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) has to determine? Is he in order to answer the same the question in two different ways just because one question affects members of United Party for National Development (UPND) and the other, members of other political parties?

I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think the role of the Presiding Officer is just to facilitate the discussions or the debates between hon. Members of Parliament. When a question is posed, the Presiding Officer simply calls upon the hon. Minister to answer it. The hon. Minister was responding to questions that were posed. As to whether we are satisfied or not happy with the responses, I think that is not the duty of the Presiding Officer to ensure it. Actually, we still have time here. So, we can go ahead and ask further questions. If you are not happy about a response, you are free to ask the hon. Minister to explain further.

Mr Kafwaya: Let me ask him.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, not now.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Not now, Sir. I was saying just take the chance; it is still available. We are still asking the hon. Minister questions. So, if we are not happy or satisfied with his response, we have the right to ask other follow-up questions until we are satisfied.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I thank the hon. Minister for that ministerial statement.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am very sorry about that. I think there was a question that was raised by the hon. Member for Lundazi which needed a response from the hon. Minister.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Member repeat the question.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, my earlier question referred to some of the measures that the hon. Minister has taken to try and sort out the challenge that occurred at Mwembeshi. One of the things he mentioned was putting up an intelligence system, a task force and complacency, promotion of officers and coming up with whistle blowers.

Madam Speaker, my question to him was: How secure is this Mwembeshi Prison if it can fail to hold those notorious criminals who cause a lot of harm and injury to us, especially the women. What measures has the hon. Minister put in place to try and sort out that challenge?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I inform this House that Mwembeshi Maximum Correctional Facility is safe to keep notorious prisoners like the abductors. The other measures we have put in place are security matters, which I cannot disclose here.

Mr Katambo: On a point of Order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the information. He ably informed this House that the News Diggers Newspaper misinformed the nation. What action is he going to take against the newspaper for misinforming the nation, in reference to the statement that he gave us?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, that question was covered and adequately answered by the hon. Minister. I do not know why we should, again, spend time on the same question.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, amongst the measures that the hon. Minister has put in place to curb prisoners escaping from a prison, such as Mwembeshi, is the Whistle Blower Policy that he created, of course, which goes with a reward. The Commissioner-General did indicate that there is a reward in form of money that was to be given to informers or whistle blowers. How much is that reward?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, it depends on the gravity of the matter.

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity given to me to ask a question. I also want to thank the Hon. Minister for the ministerial statement. However, as usual, …

Mr Katambo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mabonga: … the feeling that I am getting, and I know that this is for all of us, especially the women, is that the hon. Minister is not taking this case very seriously.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, as women, we are scared to death because we are talking about real criminals that are at large. Even when the hon. Minister is giving responses –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mfuwe, I am not comfortable with you saying the hon. Minister is not serious. Is it possible that you can just go straight to your question without accusing the hon. Minister? If you are not happy about anything, just raise a question.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker we are talking about thirteen girls that were abducted and abused. I went there when they whole thing was happening. As a mother, I am worried. I hope and pray that those people that are questioning, their daughters should be abducted and abused…

Interruptions

Hon Government Members: Question!

Ms Mabonga: …maybe, that is when you will be serious.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mfuwe, I am sure you can do better. Let us look at the ministerial statement that was issued. We are not talking about the five girls or the girls who were abducted. We are talking about those people who escaped from prison. Those are two different matters. Can we, please, focus on the ministerial statement that was issued today by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security?

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, it is the criminals who abducted the girls and the hon. Minister said one of them is at large, and that is my concern. Even when the hon. Minister was answering, he did not show us that he is very serious and working on ensuring that they capture the criminals.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think we will leave it at that. Instead of asking questions we are busy accusing one another. What we are just supposed to do is to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement that was given, not to start accusing or finger pointing. We are supposed to seek clarification on the ministerial statement, as simple as all that. There is an indication for a point of order from the hon. Member for Masaiti.

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, thank you for affording me this point of order. I deliberately asked the hon. Minister that question. The hon. Minister said they have created a whistle-blower policy but the Commissioner General and the spokesperson of the Zambia Correctional Service did announce to the nation that the reward was K5,000. However, in the hon. Minister’s response, he said that it depends on the gravity of the matter, but the Commissioner General says that the reward to give to informers and whistle-blowers is K5,000. Is the hon. Minister being factual on the Floor of the House?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think, now we are creating tension for nothing. The ministerial statement that was issued by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security was very specific and straightforward but now, because we have started bringing in other issues, it is becoming complicated.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we, please, follow the ministerial statement. Hon. Minister, please, give the answers according to the ministerial statement that you have given so that we do not go astray and bring in other issues which will complicate the whole ministerial statement.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for that guidance. I did not mention any figure in the ministerial statement. That is the correct position.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We move on to the next one.

I have permitted the hon. Minister of Agriculture to make a ministerial statement. Hon. Members, the ministerial statement is in two parts. Just to avoid …

Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: …confusion or mixing of things –

Interruptions

Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, you are disturbing the House, please.

Mr Twasa: I started calling for a point of order a long time.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is no need for you to start shouting.

I think, we know the procedure that we are supposed to use. You are supposed to indicate instead of shouting.

Mr Twasa: I indicated already.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: This is a dignified House. It is not showing on my two gadgets that you are indicating for a point of order. I was just hearing your voice from the back shouting, “point of order.”

We shall continue.

Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the ministerial statement that is about to be given by the hon. Minister of Agriculture is in two parts. In order for us to not start mixing questions, we are going to allow the hon. Minister of Agriculture to start with the first part which will be followed by questions. Then, we shall move on to the second part of the ministerial statement.

DISTRIBUTION OF FARMING INPUTS FOR THE 2023/2024 FARMING

SEASON

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, I inform this august House that the Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture, has commenced the process of procuring farming inputs under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) for the 2023/2024 Farming Season.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, for avoidance of confusion, this one is a ministerial statement that will discuss the distribution of inputs for the 2023/2024 Farming Season.

Madam Speaker, a clearly stipulated roadmap for this exercise is in place. One of the key activities under the roadmap is the purchase of fertiliser for the season.

Madam Speaker, the procurement of fertiliser for the 2023/2024 Farming Season will be done using two procurement methods, namely open international bidding for urea fertiliser and direct bidding for Compound D fertiliser. Both procurement methods are allowed under the Public Procurement Authority Act. On one hand, the open international bidding will help the Government to receive competitive prices for urea fertiliser, which is not manufactured locally. On the other hand, the Government has decided to direct-bid local manufacturers for the supply of Compound D fertiliser. The local manufacturers are the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) and United Capital Fertiliser Limited.

Madam Speaker, NCZ will be contracted to supply 43,292.70 metric tonnes of Compound D fertiliser while United Capital Fertiliser Limited will be contracted to supply 77,087.55 metric tonnes of Compound D fertiliser. While United Capital Fertiliser Limited is an emerging fertiliser manufacturing company in Zambia, the company is not new in the business of fertiliser manufacturing outside of Zambia. The company has the state-of-the-art equipment that enables it to manufacture high quality and large quantities of fertilisers on time.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the same company was among the companies that were contracted for the supply, delivery and distribution of Compound D fertiliser during the 2022/2023 Farming Season. I am glad to inform the House that the company met all its contractual obligations to supply and deliver 38,826.75 metric tonnes of fertiliser last year despite signing the contract late into the season.

Madam Speaker, the Government has a clear vision of boosting the local manufacturing sector to support increased agricultural production. In this regard, the Government will support local manufacturing companies in order to create employment for many Zambians, especially the youth who currently remain unemployed or are underemployed.

As an example, Madam Speaker, at full capacity, United Capital Fertiliser Limited will employee 650 Zambians under the D Compound plant and another 3,000 Zambian employees under the urea plant. This will bring the total number of employees to 3,650. With regard to the NCZ, the company currently has 492 employees on a permanent basis; about 250 workers employed on casual basis, and approximately 398 workers employed on seasonal basis. In addition to direct employment, local manufacturers also contribute to the economic growth through participation in transportation, use of services such as energy, water and incentivises the creation of satellite towns, just to mention a few economic and social benefits.

Madam Speaker, during the 2023/2024 Farming Season, the hybrid modality of input distribution will be implemented. This entails the following:

1. seventeen districts in Lusaka Province and the Central Province will switch to 100 per cent Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) with farmers redeeming inputs of their choice from suppliers;
2. twenty-six districts in the Southern Province and the North-Western Province will be on e-Voucher with farmers expected to redeem prescribed inputs from suppliers; and
3. the seventy-three districts in the Eastern Province, Muchinga Province, Luapula Province, the Western Province, the Northern Province and the Copperbelt Province will continue to be on 100 per cent direct input support.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to reaffirm the Government’s commitment to transparency, accountability and due diligence in the procurement of all farming inputs, including fertiliser. Therefore, even with the direct bidding of the two companies, the Government will ensure that all the due processes are followed. This is the commitment we made and we shall continue to fulfil it to ensure that the procurement of farming inputs under FISP serves the interest of the farmers and the general citizenry.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, there are still some outstanding issues with the Auditor-General concerning last year’s procurement of farming inputs. The ministry is now advertising for fresh procurement. Does the hon. Minister not think that if the information that is required by the Auditor-General is not supplied on time, there will be a distortion of information, especially on closing balances? How soon will the ministry furnish the Auditor-General’s Office the information it requested?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I assure the Leader of the Opposition that whatever information the Auditor-General wants, he will be given, and that this statement defines what we are going to do and it cannot change.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, last year, the Government gave Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) an order to deliver 50,000 metric tonnes of D Compound fertiliser, but it only managed to produce 30,000 metric tonnes, leaving a deficit of 20,000 metric tonnes which created a crisis towards the end of the year. What support has the Government given NCZ to ensure that this year, it manages to produce the required fertiliser so that we do not end up ‘firefighting’ like we did last year?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

Madam Speaker, I assure the House that we have started this process in good time. We do not see NCZ failing to produce the tonnage we have given it. If it can be of any comfort, hon. Members are free to go to NCZ, and they will find that NCZ already produced 10,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser, which is ready for supply.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure us that, indeed, NCZ and the United Capital Fertiliser Limited will produce all the fertiliser from here and they will not sub-contract other entities to supply. He stated that the main essence of letting these companies produce the fertiliser is to secure jobs so that the youths get employed, but those entities should not end up sub-contracting other entities to supply the commodity. Could he assure us that that will be the case.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kawambwa for that question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member should rest assured – I indicated that out of the 43,000 metric tonnes, NCZ already has 10,000 metric tonnes. As of last week, the United Capital Fertiliser Limited had already produced in excess of 50,000 metric tonnes. Surely, there is no way it can fail to produce the required fertiliser. In fact, it confirmed to us that by the time we will want the fertiliser, it will have not less than 300,000 metric tonnes. So, if NCZ does not produce the required fertiliser, we will give the other contract to United Capital Fertiliser Limited. However, I am sure that it will produce the required amount. It assured me of that this morning.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I hope the assurances the hon. Minister is giving us this year are genuine as opposed to what happened last year. Last year, standing where he is, he assured us that our farmers would receive fertiliser by 30^th November, but that never happened. Some farmers were getting fertiliser this year.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said the Government is using direct bidding for Compound D fertiliser. Some of the suppliers who supplied fertiliser last year and part of this year, especially in the Southern Province, informed the nation that they have brought in stocks of D Compound and urea, and that they have positioned these stocks in the areas they serviced last season. Will the ministry consider the Compound D they have brought in if it happens to be cheaper than the one to be produced by United Capital Fertiliser Limited, which the hon. Minister said is one of the companies that did direct bidding other than NCZ? As far as we know, the people who have brought the fertiliser are Zambians, and we do not want to get the impression that, maybe, some deals have gone sour in the supply chain, with these well-known suppliers who were given preference in the past of supplying K50 million worth of fertiliser.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you are now debating. What is the question?

Mr Kampyongo: The question is: Is the hon. Minister and his ministry who are changing –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, you know the unruliness of some hon. Ministers is becoming –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: I am on the Floor.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, may you please proceed with your question.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam, I am being distracted by the hon. Colleagues from the Front Bench.

Mr Nkombo: Withdraw your fingers.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: When you keep quiet, I will withdraw my fingers. So, Madam Speaker, you should know where the problem is.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we please have order!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, let me come back to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. What will he tell the suppliers he has been working with and has contracts with, concerning the fertiliser they have already positioned, especially in the Southern Province?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I will be forced to break down my response in three parts because that is how the questions were asked.

We are lucky to have the former hon. Minister of Agriculture here, and he is seated there. He will confirm that our performance on the delivery of fertiliser was so good that it surprised many people because the Patriotic Front (PF) Government never delivered fertiliser to the –

Mr Katambo rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, may I continue.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, please. I want to guide.

he hon. Minister on the Floor shall not involve other hon. Members who are present in this House in his debate. We are not supposed to debate ourselves. So, please, hon. Minister, just be specific with your answer so that we make progress without involving other hon. Members in the House.

Mr Mtolo:  Madam Speaker, I am well guided, and apologies to my dear friend. I meant no harm at all.

Madam Speaker, the point I wanted to make is that the narration being given that we delayed, absolutely, to deliver fertiliser is not true because we did better than the previous Government in the past seasons.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, secondly, the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu has said that we have contracts. With whom do we have contracts? I have been saying that we had advertised. How can we advertise and then we have contracts? Now, if people have moved fertiliser and they are positioning themselves, they are taking a risk, which they, themselves will be responsible for because we are only going to give fertiliser to those who will be best evaluated. I can only hope and pray that they will be best evaluated.

Mr Kampyongo: Positive discrimination.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, positive discrimination is there. If there will be an international bidder with the same price as the Hon. Leader of the Opposition, we will give the international bidder an advantage and that is positive discrimination.

Madam Speaker, the third issue is pricing. The hon. Member asked what will happen if the price of fertiliser which has been delivered outside the Compound D which we are single-sourcing is lower than that we are single sourcing.

Madam Speaker, the single-sourcing procedure allows for negotiations with those whom you have single-sourced. So, we are not going to take the price sitting down from NCZ and United Capital Fertiliser Zambia. It will be negotiated downwards like we did last year. So, the hon. Member should not be worried. There is room within the process to negotiate the price.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, I have worked in the Ministry of Agriculture before, and I was involved in the distribution of inputs. I have never seen a situation where the preparation of input distribution starts in March. For this, I think, I would like to commend the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, is this an indication that the agriculture sector is now in good hands under the New Dawn Administration?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, before the hon. Minister comes in to give a response, there is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Member for Pambashe. Hon. Member, what is your point of order?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I get concerned and I usually do not just rise to politick, but to remind our friends in the Executive of their policy pronouncements.

Madam Speaker, noting that the hon. Minister of Agriculture is sitting next to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and bearing in mind the inconsistence in the policy pronouncements, this point of order is in relation to the very formula and popular Article 65 that talks about consistency.

Madam Speaker, the international community and the people of Zambia are listening to the statement by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and the responses to various follow-up questions. In December, 2022, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning brought a Budget here. That Budget presentation is the Government’s policy position for 2023, in terms of the agriculture related issues. The hon. Minister was very clear and said that we were shifting from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) to the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP).

Madam Speaker, given that direction, it entails that the private sector must begin preparing itself in terms of various agriculture implements, so that once the Government rolls out that programme, individual farmers who will be supported in terms of CASP will be able to trade with the Government. However, today, the hon. Minister of Agriculture has made a 360 degree shift from that policy to say that the Government will buy fertiliser, position it in various areas and then the farmers will collect.

Madam Speaker, what is the Government’s position, so that the international community and we, the business community, who deal in agricultural implements can be able to adequately prepare? Is the Government going with CASP or FISP? Further, why is there a contradictory statement from the same Executive in the second month of implementing its Budget and policy pronouncements for 2023?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance because I am worried. I know many Zambian businessmen and the international community are also very worried with that kind of policy inconsistency.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I reserve my ruling so that I study the matter adequately, to compare what was brought to this House last year, as the hon. Member said, with what the hon. Minster is saying today. So, I will need time to investigate the matter. I will come back to this House at an appropriate time to render a ruling.

The hon. Minister of Agriculture will respond to the hon. Member for Sikongo.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Sikongo who has asked a very important question and also made a very positive comment. Yes, what the hon. Member is seeing is what our President always talks about; efficiency and doing things in a very structured manner. For example, it is incumbent upon the ministry to explain to him that FISP is part of Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP). Now, if the hon. Member is going to confuse himself by stating that CASP is a replacement of FISP, then I will take time to explain to him through the Hon. Speaker.

Madam Speaker, CASP has a number of variables and one of them is FISP. So, CASP has not replaced FISP. However, it will enhance the operations of FISP. For example, in the current FISP in the Western Province, we are going to give rice because they know how to grow it. Now, that is part of CASP. People bringing fertiliser on time is part of CASP, but it does not replace FISP. It is a comprehensive package. I hope that is clear.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, the people of Luena are very happy and they are looking forward to seeing the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP) implemented.

Madam Speaker, given the changes that are coming, including the good news the hon. Minister has just announced that rice will be provided to the people of the Western Province, Luena included, could he please, confirm whether there is still a possibility of increasing the number of beneficiaries because the people of Luena are now excited. With the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) support, we have empowered some of them with farming implements. They now want to till more land. So, can we increase the number of beneficiaries in the constituency as well? Could the hon. Minister confirm if that is possible.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Luena and I wish to confirm to the him that the issue of rice for the Western Province is not a mere example. It is fact and that is how it will happen. We are going to give rice under FISP.

Madam Speaker, further, I would like to refer the hon. Member to when we were passing the budget. Just like the previous speaker indicated, the budget qualified only for 1,024,344 members and therefore, it is difficult for me at this point in time to change that figure, in the spirit of consistency, which was brought on the Floor of the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement.

Madam, the direct bidding for fertiliser that the hon. Minister has spoken about is something the Ministry of Agriculture has failed to justify before your Committee; the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

Madam, Section 46 of the Public Procurement Act of 2020 allows direct bidding. However, the conditions under which a direct bid can be undertaken are clear in the Act. Firstly, it is if only the fertiliser is only available with that particular source. Secondly, when it is an emergency procurement. Thirdly, it is when there is a need to have a standard. Fourthly, if you advertise, and you will not have any competition advantage.

Madam Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister is: Considering that he has inherited a ministry which has failed to justify why it uses direct bidding, why has the ministry continued to use direct bidding when it is clear that the fertiliser is just not available with the suppliers and this is not an emergency procurement? According to the 2021 Report of the Auditor-General, the Ministry of Agriculture failed to meet the direct bidding criterion. So, why has the ministry continued to do direct bidding?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, that is a brilliant question. We are using direct bidding because the current Executive has decided that it is going to exercise positive discrimination. We are going to support our local industries.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I will quote the very first factor that the hon. Member mentioned. He said, you could only use direct bidding if the supplier is the only available source at that particular time. Right now, in Zambia, we have two companies producing Compound D fertiliser. That is the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) and United Capital Fertiliser (UCF). So, I am very happy that the hon. Member has educated us further. We use direct bidding because these are the only two companies supplying Compound D fertiliser.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, we will not change.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasandwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First deputy Speaker: The point of order will come after the hon. Member for Lunte has asked his question.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to interact with the hon. Minister on the ministerial statement.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Lunte, I must say I am happy with the hon. Minister’s assurance that the due process will be followed on both open international bidding for urea and direct bidding for Compound D fertiliser. Both processes will result in a paper trail in contracts, committees, meetings, minutes signed and those not signed and so on and so forth. So, has the hon. Minister convinced his Permanent Sectary to ensure that the documents that will be generated from this process are given to the Auditor-General as he comes to audit and not the way he is behaving with the 2022 documents which he is refusing to give to the Auditor-General?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the answer to the hon. Member’s question is yes.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasandwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, which talks about being factual.

Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to re-echo what the hon. Member for Nalolo has submitted to this House. There are conditions to be met in direct bidding. The hon. Minister is misleading this House and the country by saying that the Government is going to use the law for positive discrimination. I will read what direct bidding implies according to the Public Procurement Act, 2020. It says:

““direct bidding” means a procurement method where a bid is obtained directly from a single bidder, without competition;”

Madam, the hon. Minister has told this House that the Government is going to use direct bidding on two companies. He mentioned two local companies.

Madam Speaker, with your permission, let me read further what the Act says, which is that:

“The goods, works or non-consulting services are only available from a single source and no reasonable alternative or substitute exists due to an emergency.”

Madam Speaker, this is what the law provides. Therefore, is the hon. Minister of Agriculture in order to misguide himself and mislead the nation by saying the Government has decided to use positive discrimination while not following what the Act provides?

I seek your ruling, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I think we had a similar issue yesterday. It has now become a tendency that when the hon. Minister does not give an answer that we expected, we challenge it. Let us find another way of raising such a matter. As far as we are concerned, if we do not agree with the hon. Ministers when they come to this House with statements from their ministries, we challenge them. I do not know where that will take us. Hon. Ministers are the ones in charge of the ministries. Therefore, I think we have to find a way of handling this issue because in the near future, we are going to see a situation where whatever the hon. Minister says will be taken as incorrect.

Let us find a better way of addressing this issue. As far as I am concerned, where I am seated here, when the hon. Minister brings up a statement, I have the hope and trust that whatever he/she is presenting to this House is representing the ministry. So, hon. Members in this House, it is my request that we find means and ways of addressing this matter because as far as I am concerned, we just get what the hon. Minister is telling us on the Floor of the House.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think my message is very clear. I will ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture to repeat the issue that has raised dust. How is it supposed to be handled and what is the true reflection of the matter at hand?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, let us have some order!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, you put it absolutely clear and well. By the time I am coming here, I would have sat with the head of the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) and with all relevant bodies such as the Attorney-General. That is why we speak with confidence. We do not read these documents out of our own desire. They go through the process. As a Member of Cabinet, what I say affects the country. Therefore, it is done with the outmost seriousness.

Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Member not to bother by thinking that we will do something wrong. If we do something wrong, we have avenues which can be used to correct that. However, as at now, we are going to use positive discrimination and direct bid to the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NZC), our own company and United Capital Fertiliser because the two companies are producing Compound D fertiliser.

Madam Speaker, this House should have been happy to hear that we are not importing D Compound fertiliser. We are buying it from local industries.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, it is, therefore, extremely confusing for me that hon. Members, citizens of Zambia, can come here and start debating negatively against their own Government that wants to buy fertiliser from companies in their country. If there is anything wrong, why would the hon. Members not come to the office and give correct guidance? As at now, what I am saying, is what is correct. What you are hearing elsewhere is wrong.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

We now move on to the other part of the ministerial statement.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Agriculture, go ahead with your next ministerial statement. We are not making progress.

Ms Nakaponda interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Isoka, you have not been given a chance to debate.

Laughter

FARMING BLOCKS DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, allow me to thank you for allowing this segment to also be read today. I am also grateful to the Office of the Clerk.

Madam Speaker, I rise to deliver a ministerial statement on the matter of the Farming Block Development Programme This is in response to some concerns raised in relation to my statement inviting foreign direct investment in the farming blocks, ….

Hon. Member interjected.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration has prioritised agriculture as the engine for economic development, job creation and growth. If there is one programme in agriculture that can help the Government transform that sector, it is the Farming Blocks Development Programme. Since 2006, successive Governments have identified farming blocks among the foundation stones for the country’s Rural Development Policy. This has been demonstrated by the prioritising of the Farming Block Development Programme in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) and its revised edition, the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP), and currently, the Eighth National Development (8NDP) –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is there a problem?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, someone was snoring. I am sorry.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us give the hon. Minister chance to issue his ministerial statement. Zambians are, in fact, eager to listen to this statement.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, …

Hon. Member made a snorting sound.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chinsali, please, do not distract the hon. Minister who is on the Floor.

Mr Mtolo: Madam, they snore and then they disturb me.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the basic concept of a farming block is that the Government earmarks land, in collaboration with traditional leaders, for purposes of promoting commercial agriculture. In this regard, the Government has identified approximately 100,000 ha of land in each of the ten provinces of Zambia. The approach is that a core-venture or core-venture investors in each farming block are expected to co-ordinate production and provide a market as off-takers for other smaller farms. The Nakambala Sugar Estate is one model for such operations that the Government is pursuing to replicate in the farming blocks. Operated in this manner, farming blocks are expected to accelerate agricultural growth, value addition and generation of much needed export earnings for the benefit of surrounding communities and the country.

Madam Speaker, despite efforts by previous Governments to develop farming blocks, not much has been achieved in line with the aspirations. One of the key reasons the intentions have not been actualised is the failure to attract credible investors. This has largely been a consequence of lack of infrastructure and an unorganised public support service to attract investors.

Madam Speaker, to this effect, the New Dawn Government of His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, has placed the farming block model at the centre of the development and commercialisation of agricultural land using the Farming Block Development Programme. The targeted farming blocks include Nansanga in the Central Province, Luena in Luapula Province, Mushindamo in the North-Western Province, Kalumwange in the Western Province, Luswishi on the Copperbelt Province, Manshya in Muchinga Province, Musokotwane in the Southern Province, Chikumbilo in the Eastern Province, Shikabeta in Lusaka, and Kalungwishi in the Northern Province.

Madam Speaker, each farming block is designed to have four categories of farms, namely small-scale; 5 ha to 10 ha, medium scale; 11 ha to 101 ha, commercial; 101 ha to 1000 ha, and a core-venture with an allocation of land of up to 10000 ha.

Learning from past mistakes, Madam Speaker, and pursuant to the United Party for National Development (UPND) manifesto’s aim of increasing agricultural productivity and profitability, the Government has provided renewed impetus towards development of the farming block. Critical is the issue of attracting and availing land for large scale agri-business investments by both local and foreign private sector businesses. The private sector businesses are expected to work with the small-scale farmers in the localities that they will invest. The Government is fully aware that for this to happen, we have to systematically invest in basic infrastructure such as trunk and access roads, electricity, communal dams and other social amenities.

Madam Speake, since 2006, only Nansanga, Luena, and Luswishi farming blocks have had some support towards infrastructure development that stands at about 85 per cent, 40 per cent, and 15 per cent, respectively. The situation in the other farming blocks is not as developed in that only land identification and consent from the chiefs has taken place. In my earlier statements, I alluded to the reasons this state of affairs has persisted for such a long time.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government has a clear policy direction in terms of how the farming blocks will be developed. The Government will provide basic infrastructure, including other incentives, and then invite the private sector which is willing to set up anchor farms and value addition facilities in the farming blocks.

Madam Speaker, for the benefit of the nation, I wish to reiterate that investors could be local or foreign, and must be ready to use their financial and other resources to immediately start developing the land for agriculture production purposes, especially for the priority crops. I also wish to emphasise that there are established laws and procedures for investors who wish to do business in the farming blocks. It is for this reason that whenever we interact with local and foreign investors, we indicate the guidelines that have to be followed to ensure transparency.

Madam Speaker, allow me to conclude by stating that the ministry will continue supporting efforts of our Republican President, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry to ensure that the much needed local and foreign investment is attracted into the farming blocks.

My call, Madam Speaker, to all like-minded Zambians, is to support these efforts so that our youth, women and disadvantaged groups in society can benefit meaningfully from this important programme. This can only happen if our local small-scale farmers work in partnership with local and foreign investors. We have seen this happen in other countries, and in the case of Mazabuka. It is our intention to make it happen in the farming blocks.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister was reading out the names of the farming blocks and where they are located, the people of Luena Constituency did not hear the name of any farming block in the Western Province. Would the hon. Minister confirm if that will be the case. If so, is the Government open to the idea of supporting any investors who would consider investing in farming blocks in the Western Province? The people of Sitoya, Mabili, Nangula and Ndanda are willing to make land available so that they can also develop their areas through agriculture.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, in the Western Province, we have an area called Kalumwange and the hon. Minister for the Western Province is always in touch and this morning, he was talking about it. So, I can have a discussion with the hon. Member who asked the question so that I can give him more details.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I just want to address myself to the fact that the hon. Minister said that in the past, investors were not attracted to farming blocks. We, in Luangwa are also very interested in these farming blocks.

However, my interest is: Yesterday, we were just talking about empowering the Zambians and people expressed their views. Now, why can we not reserve these farming blocks for the Zambians? If there are any failures with investment, the Government is there to help. For me, I want a situation where Zambians can take a leading role in the running of the economy in this country.

Madam Speaker, I just want to find out why. I know that when the hon. Minister says foreign and local investors, he is basically talking about foreign investors.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you have asked the same question two times. Just conclude your question.

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, my question is: Why can all these 1 million ha of land, which is 100,000 per province, not given to the Zambians so that they are supported accordingly?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, land is available in Zambia. The difference is that in the farming blocks, we would have some added advantage because there will be infrastructure put in place.

Madam Speaker, there is no limitation whatsoever, for the Zambians to apply for this land. So, hon. Members can inform their constituents that they are free to apply for land in these farming blocks. However, farmers are also graduated. There are small-scale, medium-scale and commercial farmers. A lot of times, probably, we have not reached a stage yet, where we can invest millions of Dollars so that we can have what we call meaningful investments. Let us take an example of the Mazabuka Sugar Estate. That is the type of thing we should be looking towards. If we, as Zambians do not have the funds, we should attract outsiders.

Madam Speaker, however, I assure the hon. Member that many Zambians have applied for land in these farming blocks and we will not reject their applications.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, I am so excited with this ministerial statement because it has been my dream that in Zambia, we can open up farming blocks, especially, value addition plants, where our people will be able to access markets where to sell their produce.

Madam Speaker, regarding the Nansanga Farming Block, that land was given to so many people some time back. Was there any piece of land that was left for investors who would want to put up processing plants for value addition, so that we know that such an area was left for such people? When are the guidelines going to be availed to the people who would like to develop in areas to do with value addition?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I would like to start by thanking the hon. Member for Kabwe Central for her kind words. I confirm that there are certain areas where farming blocks have developed significantly, and Nansanga is one such a farming block. However, that does not mean that the Government does not have land that it can give. So, if you have interest, especially in processing plants, I would encourage you, hon. Member to apply. Let us have a physical chat, and we will definitely support you, I assure you. That does not necessarily mean that I am talking to the hon. Member. I am talking to the nation, including all the other hon. Members. When you have a tangible, strong programme and project in these farming blocks, that is what we are looking for, and we will be very happy to discuss with you. We will give you land as quickly as possible so that you can start processing whatever you want to process.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I want to place on record that one of our major functions here as legislators is to formulate laws. So, when you see us referring to pieces of legislation that we feel are being breached, it is because it is within our mandate to do just that. That is how it should be and we should hold our colleagues accountable, using the same pieces of legislations.

Madam Speaker, premised on that, the elephant in the room should have been the piece of land the Government has offered to the Kenyans. The hon. Minister could have taken advantage of that statement to clear the air so that Zambians understand what concept the Government is using.

Madam Speaker, as we know, the custodian of state land, including farming blocks, is the President of the Republic of Zambia, who delegates some of those functions to the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, who further delegates to the local authorities. What law is the hon. Minister of Agriculture using, who is just a client like any other client to the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, to appropriate land to foreigners such as the Kenyans, since he has announced to the nation that he is giving land?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for that question because it will allow me to clear the air.

Madam Speaker, firstly, parcels of land have been identified already and I read them out. In fact, it is not this Government that identified them but the previous Government. So, it is not a new concept at all. Those pieces of land are there for people to take up. What we are trying to do now, is to incentivise people so that they can invest in those pieces of land.

Madam Speaker, secondly, if the hon. Member comes to say that he wants land, we will process his application and give him land. For example, in Shiwang’andu, there is land there. We will give him a piece of land, but the process will be finalised by the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources because as the hon. Member rightly said, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources is the custodian of the land in Zambia, on behalf of the President. Whilst the segment has been given to me of 100,000 ha to share, I cannot do it on my own. I will do it through the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources.

Madam Speaker, as regards the issues of Kenya, I wish to not differ with the hon. Minister of Agriculture for Kenya. We had a discussion in my office and we introduced the subject, and they were very happy that they can come and farm. We did not, and I want to emphasise, we did not conclude that we give them land.

Mr Kasandwe pointed at Mr Mtolo.

Mr Mtolo: Do not use your hand on me.

Interruptions

Mr Mtolo: Do not use your hand on me. Just tell me nicely.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to conclude. There is a misrepresentation of facts in the media. We have not given any land to Kenya yet. If the Kenyans come and say they want land, we will give them land, but they will have to work with the locals, like any other investor who will come. However, in view of the question raised by the hon. Member for Shang’wandu, not all we read in the press is precise and correct. The correct position is what I have said. There is a process that is followed when giving land and that has not been done. However, if the Kenyans apply, we will not hesitate to consider them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me a chance, on behalf of the people of Lundazi, to ask the hon. Minister a question.

Mr Speaker, after looking at the revised farming block development programme, I have realised that the Eastern Province has only been given 45,000 ha compared to the 100,000 ha that has been given to each province. Is there a reason Lundazi, in the Eastern Province, only has 45,000 ha?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is correct to the extent that the negotiations for extra land have not yet been concluded. So, the aim is to have 100,000 ha of land in every province. Now we have one very important matter to consider. When we go to an area and have difficulties with our traditional leadership, we simply move away and go to an area where we can have land, which has no complications. I, therefore, ask the hon. Members in that part of the country to come to my office so that we can have a chat, because we could be having problems there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, the Farming Block Development Programme is welcome and the people of Kaumbwe have plenty land. I have a follow-up question on the question asked by the previous hon. Member. I am excited that the ministry is looking for more land. 45,000 ha has already been allocated in Lundazi, and we are willing and ready to provide more land. My question is: What is the source of funding for the Government to provide basic amenities in the farming blocks? Will it be a loan? Have funds already been secured for all the ten farming blocks spread across the ten provinces of Zambia?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. I also thank him for the offer of the extra land. We will take it up seriously.

Madam Speaker, firstly, let me inform the country, through this House, that in our budget, K100 million was reserved for farming block development, and this money is there. Secondly, and more importantly, the World Bank has given us a concessional loan. US$300 million is available and much of it is supposed to go towards the development of farming blocks. So, I urge the hon. Members to encourage their constituents to participate as locals. We will construct roads, connect the areas to electricity and provide other amenities because the funds are available. We have already started doing that. ZESCO Limited will connect power to Luena and Shikabeta in Rufunsa. So, these things will be provided because the money is there. I encourage every hon. Member in this House to take this programme seriously and to invest.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kawambwa will be followed by the hon. Member for Kalabo Central. We have to alternate here.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, the issue of farming blocks is very close to some of us. In view of what the hon. Minister has said today, is he able to give us concrete information on what has transpired in terms of attracting investment in Luena Farming Block in Luapula Province and the plans we left behind for out-grower schemes? How have they taken those things because we laid the groundwork; we laid the platform.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chilangwa: Na mwishiba ati ubututu bukamipaisha imwe ayi?

We are talking about tangibles here. We are talking about what has been put on the ground, the work we did, and not selling sugilite.

Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister inform the nation the tangibles they found on the ground, especially in Luena Farming Block.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is asking me to narrate what we found in Luena, and I will do just that. In Luena, we found that the previous Government had identified land, and through a Zambian loan, through Green-2000 Limited, established a farm, which is operating with top art equipment. I can also confirm that in Luena, the ATS Agrochemicals Limited, through the same Green-2000 Limited, are doing a fantastic job, and are educating people on agriculture. However, I would like the hon. Member to know that we are actualising what probably was not done, for example, taking electricity there. Green 2000 Limited used to use 3,000 litres of fuel per day, but we are now taking power to the area. We are adding value to what we found, and that is what Governments do.

Mr Speaker, secondly, let me tell you that the company, Kawambwa Sugar Limited, has now changed course. Instead of growing the sugar plantation, we have encouraged it to plant an avocado plantation and it will be the biggest avocado farm in Africa. That is what we have encouraged. So, we are picking from what we found and making a mega plan now, not only in Luena but across the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, we have heard of the K100 million which is in the plan for 2023. What are the major activities that the fund has been set for? Is it for all types of farming activities or is it for making land in each of those farming blocks accessible?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, that is another lovely question from the hon. Member for Kalabo Central. We are going to make sure that we construct roads, connect electricity, build hospitals and other amenities in the identified farming blocks to make them attractive. We will move ahead from where we found them. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the farming block project is very and it is highly supported, especially the example the hon. Minister gave of Zambia Sugar Plc. The hon. Minister will agree with me that the investment is supposed to drop the cost of products that will be produced. They should be much cheaper for the people of Zambia. That is number one. Number two, there is a cocktail of issues that the hon. Minister needs to consider.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about ZESCO Limited. Here, we have been arguing about solar power. In all the ten places he has identified, has the Government carefully identified what will be grown or produced and where value will probably be added in each of the faming blocks? What I heard the hon. Minister say sounds like it is more or less free for all; you just wake up and go and apply. This is a very, very serious programme that requires the ministry to carefully think through because there are a number of issues involved there. What sort of infrastructure should be there and how climate-resilient will it be? There are so many things that need to be considered.

Mr Speaker, has the ministry carefully and fully studied what we should achieve in those farming blocks, especially that this programme started in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) and goes it is right up to the Eight National Development Plan (8NDP)? Probably, implementation in the past has not taken place. If we are not careful, we are going to end up having farming blocks which will be like the Multi-Facility Economic Zones (MFEZs). The MFEZs have high investment but we are not getting anywhere. Just like the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and maize and mealie meal. We are still struggling to buy mealie meal.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that important observation. I assure the House that there is a ministerial group that sits to view the applications. The process of getting land is such that a person has to qualify for what is required in that area. There is a technical group that will assess your application and what you want to do. It will then give your application to another level; the Permanent Secretary (PS) level. That level will eventually give your application to a ministerial group which will also assess what you want to do. So, to answer his question, yes, we have identified that if we leave it open, people will be getting pieces of land and maybe, not even use them for the intended purpose of agriculture, but just build structures there and it will be life as usual. We are aware of that and we are taking care to identify and stick to our identified crop on what is needed.

Mr Speaker, I will give an example. Investors who would like to grow a bit of wheat, rear quails and grow beans have gone to Lundazi. That area is a traditional beans growing area so people will not fail. We will not chase anyone or displace anyone. We will absorb the locals there and they will cultivate what they know how to cultivate. Then they will sell to the person who will go there to probably establish a beans tinning factory. So, yes, we are taking a lot of care to make sure that we do the right things.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you. We are behind schedule, and so, I will restrict questions. Only the owners of the questions will ask one question and the follow-up question. We have a Motion to finish and the Executive has to respond before close of the day.

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

FERTILISER SUPPLY TENDER FOR THE 2023/2024 FARMING SEASON

201. Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. why the Government has advertised the tender to supply only 120,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser instead of 240,000 metric tonnes for the 2023/2024 farming season; and
2. what measures the Government has taken to ensure that the reduced quantity of fertiliser does not compromise the country’s food security.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Mr Speaker, the Government has advertised 120,000 metric tonnes of Compound D fertiliser under direct bidding and another 120,000 metric tonnes of Urea fertiliser under international bidding. So, in other words, both have been advertised but using different avenues.

Mr Speaker, most of the maize-producing provinces will be under direct input support under which maize seed will be one of the main inputs to ensure that maize production is not affected in an adverse manner.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the country’s food is something that we cannot negotiate. I appreciate the responses from the hon. Minister. Let me take advantage of Article 76 of the Republican Constitution and say that when I was elected to come to this House, I swore to defend and protect the Constitution and not the Standing Orders. Yes, the supremacy of the Constitution should never be underestimated. I was not there when the Standing Orders were being crafted, but I contributed to the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, which is sacred.

The other arms of the Government like the Judiciary, when faced with a challenge within the chambers or the jurisdictions of the court, move the court for witnesses to sacrifice or to adduce sufficient evidence before justice is administered. Hon. Minister –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What you are supposed to ask is a follow-up question to the question you raised. You are not talking to the hon. Minister of Justice, but the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, how I wish you could permit me, I am building a serious case over my question.

Mr Speaker, is it possible, for the voidance of doubt, that there is no under-hand method in the procurement of fertiliser? Is the hon. Minister in a position to move this august House within 48 hours to go and inspect United Capital Fertiliser and, indeed, the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) so that we see that the two companies have the 50,000 metric tonnes at their disposal and that they are not organising from the back. Could the hon. Minister move this House to the two plants. If courts can be moved, what is so special about this august House that it cannot go and verify the quantities of fertiliser if this is a clean deal?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, this House has got procedures and rules. We do have, in this House, a group that can ascertain what has been said, to assure that what has been said is correct. It is not for me to appoint that committee. The committee can go, but more than the committee, the hon. Member is free to go and check, today, tomorrow or any other day of his choice at NCZ if there are 10,000 tonnes of fertiliser. He is also free to go and check at United Capital Fertiliser if it has produced fertiliser and what quantity is there. It is not for me to move the House to those companies. My job is to come here and say this is what we will do after we have checked facts and that is what I have done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, I am worried. The procurement of fertiliser is under the Ministry of Agriculture and not under the jurisdiction of Parliament. Our role as Parliament is to provide an oversight role on the Executive. What is so difficult about the Executive saying ‘yes, we can move this House to go and inspect the fertiliser’?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, there is a reason we are insisting. Many people are being arrested for wilful failure to follow the law. The Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) Act is very clear. Tomorrow, if anything happens, in here, some people will be arrested for wilful failure to follow the law. We are trying to protect and insulate ourselves, not only the hon. Minister.

Mr Speaker, does the Government not think that the direct bidding that it has done is giving advantage to selling fertiliser at an expensive price knowing very well that there is no competition?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that contribution. However, I would not want to dwell on innuendoes and assumptions. I will talk about facts. We have come to this House to let the House and the nation know that this is the process we are going to undertake. I said for urea, we are going to put a tender internationally. For Compound D, which is produced in Zambia, we will have to buy from those companies that are producing the fertiliser because we want to enhance employment and economic development in the country. That is the way a country should run. That is our feeling as the New Dawn Government, and that it is what is correct.

Mr Speaker with regards to checking whether the fertiliser is there or not, every citizen is free to go and do that. NCZ is in Kafue while United Capital Fertiliser is 10/15km from here. I encourage the hon. Members to go and check. I will not be party to that innuendo because whatever I say will be checked by the Government systems. I think I can end here.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

PROMOTION OF HASS AVOCADO FARMING

202. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. what measures the Government is taking to promote Hass Avocado farming;
2. whether the Government has any plans to support Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) engaged in Hass Avocado farming;
3. if so, what type of support will be rendered to the SMEs; and
4. what measures the Government is taking to promote increased shelf space for local agricultural products in chain stores and supermarkets, countrywide.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon Member for Chama South, I think I made an appeal that we have got business to finish today. I said that I would allow the owner of the question only, to ask the first question and a follow-up question. If the point of order is not in that regard, we can allow it.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I refer to Article 76 of our Republican Constitution which gives us power as Members of Parliament to speak and make follow-up questions. Looking at the nature of the question, you should have allowed a number of us to ask follow-up questions.

Hon. PF Member: Yes!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, do not trivialise the issue of direct procurement of fertiliser when we still have enough time for the Government to create competition. I feel you are treating us unfairly by curtailing us.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: Colleagues, we are here to make you accountable. Your Permanent Secretary (PS) is refusing to hand over files to the Auditor-General (AG) and we are here to ask questions.

This is a constitutional matter and I need your serious ruling, Sir..

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, let me guide. I think the Leader of Opposition will help us to ensure that business is conducted in a cordial environment. There comes a time when we have to ensure that our core business in the House; fulfilling the Government business, is met.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Minister of Agriculture continue.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the Government through the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry is working on promoting hass avocado farming in Zambia though the following:

1. research services;
2. provision of technical advice through the extension service offered by the ministry;
3. provision of guidance on phytosanitary standards that allow movements of plant products and other regulated articles before consignments move in international trade;
4. identification of markets through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) and our missions abroad; and
5. support to non-traditional exports through the Zambia Exports Development Fund.

Mr Speaker, the Government is already supporting the SMEs engaged in Hass Avocado farming.

Sir, the SMEs are being supported through the measures I have outlined in the answer to part (a) of the question above.

Mr Speaker, the Government through the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Commerce and Trade and Industry is engaging with chain stores and super markets to ensure increased shelf space of locally produced goods. Further, the Government has been promoting the ‘Buy Zambia Campaign’. This campaign emphasises the importance of buying Zambian products which in turn, increase demand for the products and incentivise chain stores and supermarkets to stock them. A good example is what we did for our milling plant in Solwezi; we put their products on the shelves of Shoprite when they requested us to assist them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, the hass avocado industry, globally, was about US$13.97 billion as of 2021, and is expected to expand. Zambia’s tropical climate is ideal for growing hass avocado. I ask this question on behalf of small-scale farmers engaged in hass avocado farming.

At the moment, when we speak about the export of hass avocado, it is being done by large commercial farmers. Without sounding racist, white farmers are the ones exporting it. What is the Government is doing to ensure that indigenous small-scale farmers can grow quality, but also have a share of the export market so that it is not just a market for those who grow it for export purposes alone?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very enlightening question because the answer could be beneficial to a lot of people in the country.

Mr Speaker, to some extent, the hon. Member is right that currently, the Hass avocado export is dominated by bigger farming entities. However, I would like the hon. Member to know, and through the hon. Member, other hon. Members in the House and the country that there is a proliferation of a number of avocado co-operatives in Zambia, which we are encouraging greatly. There is the Lusaka Avocado Growers Association and even the Eastern Province has one. There are a lot of avocados grown in Kawambwa by small scale farmers, and we are encouraging that.

Mr Speaker, we are making sure that these farmers have the right organisms to grow their product. They are free to come to the ministry, where our scientific departments can assist them. They should not just buy avocado anywhere and think that they will take it for export. There are requirements to meet in the process. That is why the ministry is there to assist. That is why I appreciate the question. The ministry is there to support small scale cultivation or growing of this fruit, which is now a very important part of people’s diet in the world.

Mr Speaker, we are there to assist the farmers and we encourage small scale farmers to grow this crop.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I was going to come to the proliferation of hass avocado co-operatives. The challenge we have is to assure quality so that what is offloaded, both on the domestic and international market, is of standard. The threat that lies out there is that everyone can grow what they are calling hass avocado and sell seedlings to unsuspecting members of the public for a K120 a seedling. Who is certifying these seedlings? Are we going to wait? The scenario as the hon. Minister has pointed out is that these small-scale farmers should go to the ministry. I want to believe that the ministry could probably take a pro-active approach and reach out before unsuspecting members of the public are duped of their hard-earned cash.

Is there any plan by the ministry to certify this particular crop or the seedlings before they are sold to unsuspecting members of the public, especially that we are talking about economic transformation? Do we have that before we have members of the public duped in this endeavour?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, the answer is a simple ‘yes’. The Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Services, under Dr Musisya at Mount Makulu, is responsible for certifying these small nurseries which sell different plant breeds. So, when I say that visit the ministry, I am encouraging, for example, the hon. Member to come and tell us, if he has a number of these nurseries in Mpika and let us know so that we can send our officers there to start certifying.

What is certifying? It is to encourage seed growers or breeders to do the right thing so that they do not fall into a trap that their product cannot be exported, because that is the danger. So, we are there. We have got three scientific units under the Ministry of Agriculture, the Seed Certification Institute, the Zambia Agriculture Research Institute and the Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Services. These three are there for Zambians to have free scientific guidance on what they are doing. So, they are most welcome to visit us, but, yes, they are visiting a number of these breeding areas so that they can have these seedlings certified.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

REHABILITATION OF BRIDGES IN MKAIKA PARLIAMENTARY

CONSTITUENCY

203. Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the bridges at the following crossing points in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Chisale;
2. Mnyamanzi;
3. Mtsanya;
4. Lupande; and
5. Chamatonje; and
6. if so, when the plans will be implemented. 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Local and Rural Development.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, I apologise. I had not logged in. Give me a second, please.

Mr Speaker, I apologise for the delay.

Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate all critical crossing points in the country, including the ones in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency, among them Mkaika, Mnyamanzi, Mtsanya and Lupande bridges. It is prudent to mention that the Road Development Agency (RDA) is undertaking some works on the Chamatonje Bridge.

Mr Speaker, the Government has, through the local authority; Katete Town Council, already started the site evaluation of various critical bridges and crossing points in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency, to be designed and costed for possible funding as soon as funds are available.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response. Indeed, on Chamatonje Bridge, there are works going on, funded by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. However, my question is on Mnyamanzi Bridge. I do not know whether the hon. Minister is aware that it was allocated an Acrow bridge. I do not know how far this allocation has gone because we have been waiting for this Acrow bridge for a while now. I do not know whether the hon. Minister is able to respond to this question or it is sitting at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I regret to say that I am not aware, but this is information that can be found and delivered to the hon. Member of Parliament if we spoke to our sister ministry, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. As I indicated, on one of the bridges, the RDA, which is directly under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, is carrying out some works there. I urge my colleague and friend to approach our offices or the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to get the exact detail of the status of this particular bridge.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I regret to say that I am not aware, but this information can be found and delivered to the hon. Member of Parliament, if we speak to our sister ministry, which is the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. As I indicated, in the Road Development Agency (RDA) which is directly under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, there are some works that are going on. Therefore, I would urge, my colleague and friend to maybe, approach our offices or the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to get the exact detail of the status of this particular road.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES ACROSS THE LUBUMBU RIVER

204. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

(a)        whether the Government has any plans to construct bridges across the Lubumbu River at the following crossing points in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)        Sitwe;

(ii)       Mwinkonde; and

(iii)      Kapembe;

(b)       if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c)        if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct bridges across the Lubumbu River at the following places in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Sitwe;
2. Mwinkonde; and
3. Kapembe.

Mr Speaker, the plans will be implanted once funds are secured. As indicated in (a) above, the Government has plans to construct bridges across the Lubumbu River at Sitwe, Mwinkonde and Kepembe.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the response. I think it would be ideal if the hon. Minister could state the period than leaving it open-ended. For example, the Mwinkonde one is under the rural connectivity which is from Chama, Kambombo up to Mwinkonde, but that contract was terminated. Is the Government not considering putting up a bridge in Mwinkonde because it was under that same contract?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is quite right. The Mwinkonde crossing point was one of the locations which were identified under the installation of the Acrow Bridges. The contract for the construction of the Acrow Bridge was awarded to Vibrant Construction and General Supply Limited at a cost of K77.4 million with the completion period of nine months. The contract was terminated due funding challenges. The procurement of work for the construction of the bridges at Sitwe, Mwinkonde and Kapembe will be undertaken once funds are secured. The RDA will undertake an assessment of the three crossing points to ascertain any relevant interim intervention that maybe carried out as major works are being awaited to be undertaken.

Sir, let me go back to Mwinkonde, which was provided for under the Acrow Bridges. Maybe, to give the hon. Member an example of what other hon. Members are doing with respect to the installation of Acrow Bridges, all the bridges for the 130 old sites are already in the country. The bridges are for specific sites. In other words, I cannot move a bridge from one site to another site. What other hon. Members have done is to engage with my ministry with respect to the sites that they have to look at. They have to look at possible ways of installing these bridges even under the circumstances where the fiscal situation in the country is tight. One such example is the hon. Member for Zambezi West. He was engaged and right now, the Acrow Bridge is being installed in his constituency.

Mr Speaker, another one is the hon. Member for Kanchibiya. In his constituency, one site is being looked at. Part of the solution is to work together by utilising the CDF in certain cases because this is what other hon. Members are doing, and it also quickens the process. Otherwise, if we do not do that, we will have to wait until the Government has resources to undertaken this work. Further, these are bridges that are already allocated. So, as soon as the Government has the resources, those bridges will be installed.

Mr Speaker, however, if the hon. Member wants me to be specific, I think he is being unfair because time and again, we have explained what the Government is trying to do to create a situation where we shall have our money and not only that, but also, have the ability to borrow for infrastructural projects and other expenditure that the Government undertakes.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the response. I will engage his ministry so that we can see how an Acrow Bridge can be installed at Mwinkonde. However, the hon. Minister must also realise that there are certain crossing points where the CDF cannot be used, for instance, at Sitwe and Lubumbu. It is not possible to use the CDF. So, in short, we will engage his ministry.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

_______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

The Minister for Central Province (Mr Nanjuwa): Mr Speaker, yesterday, before the House adjourned, I was indicating that as the provincial administration representing the Central Province, we are going to respond by stating what we have done in response to what His Excellency the President of Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, put on the Table of the House.

Mr Speaker, on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I indicated that the Central Province is so excited with the increment of the CDF from K1.6 million to K28.3 million because we believe that this is a game changer for the province. All the districts in the province are doing very well. So, to ensure that all districts in the province are moving at the same level, the provincial administration has come up with a monitoring mechanism. It has conducted many meetings with the council secretaries on the implementation of the CDF programmes.

Mr Speaker, I am excited to report that the CDF is working in Central Province. However, we have discovered that certain local authorities are not implementing the vision of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia and the New Dawn Government. Having discovered that certain local authorities are not implementing the vision of the New Dawn Government, the provincial administration intervened and told those local authorities to not access the grants and loans. Certain local authorities in the province want to politicise the CDF and we will not allow that.

Mr Speaker, I also want to indicate that the provincial administration has commenced the extension of a Government wide area network and most provincial Government departments are now connected to the network. We have since begun piloting the network in rural districts, with Luano District being the latest. We have expanded Government electronic services and twenty-three institutions are now providing such services. Further, we conducted four Government institution effectiveness surveys in service delivery.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to indicate that sustainable development remains key to economic transformation, job creation and poverty reduction in the province. In this regard, the Government accelerated the implementation of mitigation and adaptation measures through projects such as the Ecosystem-Based Adaption and Climate Smart Agriculture. The Government protected the wetlands, promoted drought resistant crops, and supported people living in the flood prone areas by providing alternative livelihoods. Through these interventions, nineteen community forest managements were established to prevent the illegal cutting of trees at the community level throughout the province. As Central Province, we thank the New Dawn Government for implementing these values and principles.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Ministers, most of you have indicated that you are ready to speak, but it may not be possible. So, at most, you can speak for four or five minutes to accommodate other hon. Ministers. That will help. We will start with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, thank you very much. It will be tough to debate for four minutes, but I will try. Given the limitation of time, what I will talk about concerns development.

Mr Speaker, since we, as a Government, came into office, it has been hard to secure funding for development because most of the money is being swallowed up by debt servicing. So, I thank His Excellency the President for his vision, and for encouraging us to undertake public private sector investments such as public-private partnership (PPP) roads. For example, a few weeks ago, we signed the PPP agreement for the Lusaka/Ndola Road.

Mr Speaker, if you recall, our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) wanted to spend US$1.2 billion on this road. This Government will work on that road under a PPP at half the price. This, indeed, is high morality. You will notice that there has been a lot of apprehension from our hon. Colleagues on the left, who are condemning this road. The reason they are condemning this road is simple. It is about creating a narrative and a situation whereby they confuse the people, when in actual fact, what we should be talking about is why they wanted to spend US$1.2 billion, when the road works can be done at half that price. So, in order to confuse members of the public and deviate their attention so that they do not focus on this expensive road that they wanted to do, they are now talking about a number of things that are wrong. The opposition you have heard about the Lusaka/Ndola Road is not genuine. It is about trying to hide the shame of working on a road at double the price when in actual fact it can be worked on at half the price. That is the only reason.

Mr Speaker, let me give my last point in defence of this. In opposition to this road, you heard our hon. Colleagues saying why is it that the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) is considering financing this road of course in addition to other finances. That is the point they have been throwing around. It is actually shocking to hear a Zambian who is enlightened talk like that. They are saying the money at NAPSA is ours and we should not contribute to the financing of this road. The principle behind that is that Zambian money should not be utilised to fund foreigners. However, in this country, Zambian banks, which use the money the Zambian people deposit and is, therefore, our money, have been financing foreign companies from time immemorial. Zambian banks, whether foreign owned or local banks, have been financing –

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, my point of order relates to Standing Order 65.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is trying very hard to launder the position concerning the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway. We have put it very clear on the Floor of this House that the real cost of the road is not the cost to the contractor. It is the cost to the contractor and forgone revenue.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: That is the real cost. I am speaking as an accountant.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member on the Floor is struggling to justify – Let me make it very clear to the hon. Minister that the real issue the Zambian people are putting forth is that, previously, there are roads which the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) funded through the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA). The question that has been on this Floor has been the role of that consortium.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead himself, this House and the Zambian people into believing that what he is doing is correct, yet falls short of what is required to answer the question of what the role of that consortium is? Members of the public are saying NAPSA can fund that road directly through the NRFA; that is what the issue is.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I reserve my ruling for this point of order. At a later date, I will render my ruling because we may just end up –

May the hon. Minister continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, this is what we mean by trying to confuse things to hide the shame of wanting to justify a very expensive road.

Mr Mwiimbu: Exactly!

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: By the way, Mr Speaker, the road that they were going to spend money on was actually going to be beyond US$1.2 billion because this was a loan that was going to be acquired and put interest on it which was about UD$700 million. So, the real cost was going to be US$1.9 billion.

Hon. Government Member: Oh no!

Dr Musokotwane: So, they are now ashamed.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I was saying that the issue of trying to say a local financial institution should not fund a foreign company is shocking. It is shocking to hear accountants and lawyers talk like that.

Mr Mundubile: Why are you shocked!

Dr Musokotwane: I am shocked because you should have known that foreign-based companies in the country borrow. If I may mention some; are you saying Airtel has never borrowed money from this country? Are saying that MTN has never borrowed money from this country? Are you saying that Zambia Breweries has never borrowed money from this country? Are these not foreign companies? Are they not borrowing from local banks with Zambian money?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, this level of ignorance is what has brought the economy to its knees. The level of ignorance is what has left the country on its knees ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: ... because they do not understand the basic principles.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me the opportunity to debate the speech that was delivered by His Excellency on the Floor of the House on 24^th February, 2023.

Mr Speaker, the speech was, indeed, very enlightening. It was a speech that answered all the issues that were raised by members of the public. The speech by the President, among many important aspects, touched on the progress made in the review of the Public Order Act, Chapter 113 of the Laws of Zambia. It re-affirmed the unwavering desire and commitment by the New Dawn Administration to create an enabling environment in which the citizens will enjoy their freedoms and liberties, including the right to freely assemble and associate as provided for under the Bill of Rights in our Constitution.

Mr Speaker, the Public Order Act, in its current form, is an archaic piece of legislation with provisions reflecting a colonial legacy that has been the subject of much public debate and court actions. Various stakeholders have called for its outright repeal and replacement due to provisions which hinder the enjoyment of civil and political rights such as the freedom of assembly, association and expression.

Mr Speaker, the New Dawn Administration, under the insightful leadership of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema, has taken a bold decision to review the Public Order Act in a participatory and transparent approach. This is a feat that can only be pursued by a leader committed to creating a Government of the people and for the people.

Mr Speaker, the New Dawn Administration remains committed to promoting democracy and constitutionalism as can be seen by the bold decision to improve tools that provide for the respect for human rights, the rule of law, transparency, accountability and effective participation of citizens in national affairs.

Mr Speaker, let me inform the general public, through the august House, that the draft Bill has been handed over to the Ministry of Justice for technical scrutiny. All stakeholders are urged to support the Bill throughout the process.

Mr Speaker, due to the brevity of time, let me state, in no uncertain terms, that I detest leaders who promote tribalism …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … especially those who are supposed to protect the Constitution of the country. Those who stood on the Floor of this House to promote tribalism and regionalism should be condemned by all right-thinking Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we heard hon. Members on your left promote hate speech, tribalism and regionalism on the Floor of this House. I urge members of the public to condemn them in very strong terms.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: We heard them saying that the New Dawn Administration is regional in appointing people in Government positions. However, it is the first time in the history of this country…

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: … where Cabinet is made up of people from all regions of the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: It never happened in the previous regime. I do recall that when my hon. Colleagues on your left were in power, they were condemning us when I was Leader of the Opposition. However, they cannot have the urgency to condemn themselves. The Leader of the Opposition and the Patriotic Front (PF) Whip are from the same region but they cannot condemn what is wrong.

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: They cannot see what is wrong.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, my point of order relates to Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Speaker, the Member who is just from debating is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. However, he constantly referred to Members on your left as having talked about regionalism. He deliberately decided to not refer to an audio, which has gone viral today, about members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) who are talking about the selective arrests in the sugilite scandal.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mundubile: Is he in order to not bring to the House what is being said in his party? Where members of his party are saying people from one region, who were involved in the sugilite scandal, have not been arrested and that only people from one region have been arrested. Is he in order to continue accusing people on the left, yet there is information from the UPND?

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, apparently, our Standing Orders say that you can raise a point of order on an issue that has been breached on the Floor of the House. In as much as there could be a video circulating outside the House that does not relate with the Business on the Floor of the House.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, very quickly, let me thank the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for a very splendid exhibition when he delivered the speech on the attainment of the national values and principles in the country.

Mr Speaker, the President demonstrated a commitment by continually exhibiting ...

Mr Mundubile and Ms Mabonga left the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: ... the integrity, professionalism and patriotism in his leadership for the country.

Hon. Member: That is someone’s wife!

Mr Nkombo: The President also alluded to the fact that we should have a citizenry that is hard working.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Address resonates with my ministry’s mandate, which includes the facilitation of the devolvement and decentralisation of governance for the participation of all citizens in the country. My ministry has been working very hard to ensure that communities have access to social services as well as ensuring that they play a role in determining their socio-economic trajectory and agenda.

Mr Speaker, I was very elated when the President continuously made reference to the arbitrary intake of substance and alcohol in our country.

Mr Speaker, the President also referred to the Alcohol Policy which is under my ministry as well as the Ministry of Health, just to assure people that we are doing everything possible to reverse the trend that was set by those who were there before us. Our predecessors issued alcohol trading licences, wantonly, to people who were trading on the streets. The remnants of those authorities that allowed citizens to trade in alcohol anywhere, and everywhere, are bearing fruit now as we now have a citizenry has unfortunate children we call junkies, and are causing a lot of despondency across our society. The President showed extreme worry about the matter of arbitrary issuance of liquor licences.

Mr Speaker, the President was also very straight forward about what his vision is regarding the positive impact of our flagship programme of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) on livelihoods. He emphasised the fact that we need to use these funds to create an atmosphere where our children, especially the girl children, will be in safe boarding houses as opposed to the current situation, as we found it. It is very clear that our girl children are at risk because there has been no facility to ensure that as they go through their learning process, they are in an environment that is very safe, and deters those that may be abusers.

Mr Speaker, the President, also, was very emphatic on the fact that upon his settling into office, one of the major pronouncements he made was that we must facilitate projects that are going to bring dignity to our women, especially when they are delivering life. He has been very clear about ensuring that under CDF, we establish maternity facilities that have running water, delivery beds, and everything, all across the country, just the way it is in urban hospitals.

Mr Speaker, the President was also emphatic on the fact that children must go to school and learn in an environment where they sit on desks.

Mr Speaker, due to time, I end here. I do appreciate and ask hon. Members support the President in attaining some of these aspirations that he explained on that particular day.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the President’s Address on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles. Allow me to commend His Excellency, Mr. Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia, for a well thought through address that is non-political and has been appreciated by all well-meaning Zambians across the country.

Mr Speaker, the President touched on many issues that aim to promote the general well-being of the people of Zambia, and in particular, on issues that affect and have a bearing on health. The following are some of the comments on the national values and principles highlighted in the comprehensive address:

Mr Speaker, the Government is concerned with high incidents of alcohol and substance abuse in our country, especially among the youths. Harmful use of alcohol is strongly associated with the following:

1. unsafe sex and the spread of the Human-Immuno Deficiency Virus and Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS);
2. loss of health due to accidents, especially through road traffic accidents;
3. triggering gender-based violence;
4. violation of rights of children to grow up in safe and alcohol-free environments;
5. increasing the gravity of poverty in households that are already vulnerable, and
6. instigation of acts of crime.

Mr Speaker, it is in this line, the Government has put in place effective policy measures aimed at addressing the stated challenges using a multisectoral approach as indicated in the National Alcohol Policy and its implementation plan.

Mr Speaker, there is, therefore, a need to appreciate and work with others in pursuit of patriotism and national unity.

Mr Speaker, through our “One Zambia, One Nation” national motto, national unity is evidenced through recruitment, appointment and deployment of Zambians in Public Service. Over 40,000 people have been recruited in the Public Service throughout the ten provinces, using a decentralised method that has been free of negative vices such as tribalism and regionalism. The process employed was fair, transparent and corruption free. That did not happen in the last ten years or more. That can, further, be demonstrated by the balanced appointment of Cabinet Ministers in the New Dawn Administration.

Human Dignity, Equity, Social Justice, Equality, and Non-discrimination

Mr Speaker, the New Dawn Administration, without compromise, emphasises that all members of the public deserve to be loved, valued and respected, regardless of their social standing. The provision of social services to all corners of Zambia is meant to foster equity of access to quality social services.

Mr Speaker, social determinants of health are mainly responsible for health inequalities and unfair and avoidable differences in health status seen within and between communities. Therefore, the President’s Address should be supported as it touched on measures and the progress made by the New Dawn Administration in addressing social determinants of health such as the promotion of school feeding programmes for children from vulnerable households and employment of workers in the Public Service.

Mr Speaker, the Government has also continued to use a multi-sectoral approach in implementing interventions aimed at improving water, sanitation and hygiene in all communities and public institutions, including the recent directive by His Excellency to ensure that all health facilities must have water, flushable toilets and maternity wings.

Sustainable Development

Mr Speaker, it is gratifying to note that the President’s Address touched on sustainable development, which is key to our survival and prosperity as a nation. The impact of climate change may negate the aspiration of Zambia becoming a prosperous middle-income country as stated in the Vision 2030. Therefore, the mitigation and adaptation measures to climate change is important to avoid extreme conditions such as floods and droughts, which may make the country susceptible to water borne diseases and scarcity of food, which leads to malnutrition.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to remind the House that National Values and Principles provide the minimum standards that we should respect in our interactions and provision of services to the citizenry. I, therefore, support the President’s Address as it is progressive and apolitical.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 49, and I raise it on both the Patriotic Front (PF) Whip as well as the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr Speaker, we come here courtesy of the Zambian people, and each time we report for work, we get an allowance. We get paid. Yesterday, very sadly, the quorum collapsed as a result of the absence of hon. PF Members, most of them very senior, who seem to be making it a trend now. This is what has compelled me to lift my voice against what I think is a fraudulent way of earning Government money by coming here to just warm up their seats, register, get paid and then go about their business away from this House. This point of order does exclude those hon. PF Members who are present here, and whom I respect.

Mr Speaker, I now seek your ruling on whether the Leader of the Opposition as well as the Whip for the PF are in order to create this atmosphere where Business of the House is at the brink of collapse because they decide to abscond from duty and dodge from employment.

I seek your ruling, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Your point of order is quite elaborate, but I need more time to study it. So, I reserve my ruling to a later date.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Address by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the smartest President that Zambia has ever had, on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

Mr Speaker, allow me, on behalf of the labour fraternity and, indeed, on my own behalf, to join other hon. Ministers who have debated before me in congratulating one of the smartest Presidents that Africa has ever seen, as we have heard the commendations that he has received from all over the world, for delivering an inspirational speech to this august House. His speech has clearly shown the Government’s commitment to uphold National Values and Principles, which my colleague, the hon. Minister of Health has indicated that it has minimum standard that must be adhered to in our national life, and I support it.

Mr Speaker, I will now speak to the relevance of the President’s Speech on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles as they relate to the mandate of my ministry. Due to limited time, what I would like to recognise are matters indicated for instance, on page 4. On page 4, the President promoted the issues of children’s rights. One of the overlooked forms of child abuse in our country as we know is child labour. Child labour negatively affects our children both physically and mentally. It also affects the development of these children to become productive members of our society. So, in recognising the negative effects of this vice, the New Dawn Government has been implementing measures to eliminate the worst forms of child labour in this country.

Mr Speaker, in this regard, my ministry has placed emphasis on decent work promotion to enable vulnerable households to earn meaningful incomes that will discourage parents from allowing children to undertake work that is harmful to their wellbeing. Further, the ministry is working towards strengthening District Child Labour Committees to ensure that we go out there to all parts of our country, to participate in promoting decent work agenda that does not recognise or include child labour.

Mr Speaker, on democracy and constitutionalism, on page 10 of the President‘s Speech, he stated that the Government will continue to uphold adequate representation of employees and employers through the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC). On all matters that relate to work and employment in all workplaces, this Government has paid extra attention to ensuring that there is a platform that deals with that. In the past, this TCLC did not see the light of day, in ensuring that it provided a platform for the workers of Zambia. Now, we have seen that the workers of Zambia have their voice heard.

Mr Speaker, complacency is one of the issues that the President talked about, and what I would also like to speak about. In my ministry, productivity is the message we give to the workers of Zambia.  We cannot afford to be complacent any more. Every one of us is called to the table of work in order to turn our economy around. For lack of time, I will end here.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister for Eastern Province (Mr Phiri): Mr Speaker, as the Eastern Province, we applaud His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema and the New Dawn Government for upholding the Constitution by reporting the progress made in the application of our national values and principles in line with Article 9(2) of the Constitution of Zambia. This is among the many fulfilled promises which show that the New Dawn Administration is a Government that walks the talk.

Mr Speaker, the Eastern Province continued with the promotion of good morals and ethics among our people to help curb the challenges of alcohol and substance abuse, teenage pregnancy, child marriage and Gender-Based Violence (GBV) in the province.

Mr Speaker, with respect to the prevention of child marriages, the province undertook sensitisation of thirty chiefdoms, withdrew sixty-seven girls from child marriages, and disposed of twenty-five cases involving child marriages. In order to retain girls in school, the Government continued to implement the re-entry policy and 1,684 girls were admitted back to school after falling pregnant.

Mr Speaker, in line with the Government’s resolve to curb alcohol and substance abuse, the province sensitised 15,811 individuals and organisations on the dangers of alcohol and substance abuse as well as trained sixty people in anti-doping. It also committed 710 people for drug-related offences.

Mr Speaker, through the newly introduced policy of free education among many interventions that the New Dawn Government has introduced to ensure that children stay longer in school, the Eastern Province, like the rest of the country, recorded an increase in the number of pupils in schools from early childhood education to Grade 12 of 643,343, representing a 13 per cent increase in 2023 from 569,147 in 2021.

Mr Speaker, the enactment of the Anti-Human Trafficking (Amendment) Act of 2022 is a commendable milestone. As you are aware, the Eastern Province shares borders with Malawi and Mozambique. So, the new Act will greatly contribute to the safeguarding of the rights of victims of human trafficking through the provision of necessary requisite services as well as enhance their protection.

Mr Speaker, the New Dawn Government’s resolve to empower Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) and co-operatives through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) at the grassroots is a game changer. It is gratifying to note in the President’s Address that measures were put in place to improve efficiency and effectiveness in the implementation of the CDF, such as the decentralisation to the provincial administrations as well as streamlining of related procurement guidelines.

Mr Speaker, I will definitely jump to other pages. In conclusion, ...

Laughter

Mr Phiri: ... through the various multi-faceted interventions the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is implementing as highlighted in the President’s Address, indeed, the nation at large is seeing tangible transformation and improvement in the lives of our people. A lot needs to be done as the application of national values and principles has a lot to do with mindset and behaviour change. Thus, we keep pushing and we will not relent.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Sorry to those of you who were not availed the opportunity to speak. We have to finish business. So, I call upon the mover of the Motion to wind up debate.

Ms Munashabantu (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to wind up debate on the very important Motion which enabled us to debate the values and the principles that define us as a nation.

Mr Speaker, the enthusiasm that the House exhibited in debating the Motion shows that despite our divergent views, we are, indeed, a united country.

Mr Speaker, in the last ten days, I closely followed the debate from both sides of the House and one striking thing is that hon. Members on both sides of the House are all eager to ensure that our national values and principles are upheld. This is the way it should be. Since we all agreed that we need to uphold our national values and principles, allow me to thank all the hon. Members for the spirited debate on the Motion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the house do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1832 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 17^th March, 2023.

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