Tuesday, 14th March, 2023

Tuesday, 14^thMarch, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, when the procession was entering the Chamber, there was noise coming from the left. I think you saw the circular that was given to each one of you, two weeks ago. Can we, please, observe silence when the Speaker’s procession is entering and leaving the Chamber. We may now have matters of urgent public importance.

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR MUKOSA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHINSALI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HEALTH, MRS MASEBO, ON THE OUTBREAK OF MEASLES IN CHINSALI

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Health.

Madam Speaker, in Choshi, Chandamali and Mulyangolo, among other areas, in Chinsali District, there is an outbreak of measles, which is a communicable disease and is highly contagious. If a vaccination exercise is not conducted in these areas that I have mentioned, we may start recording deaths as a result of this deadly disease.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence in this matter.

DR MWANZA, HON. MEMBER FOR KAUMBWE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FISHERIES AND LIVESTOCK, MR CHIKOTE, ON STRAY DOGS ATTACKING PEOPLE IN KAUMBWE AND LUSAKA

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, my urgent matter of public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock.

Madam Speaker, in Kaumbwe Constituency, particularly in Kaumbwe Ward at Mwanjabantu headquarters in the military camp, soldiers are manning the area. However, stray mad dogs entered the camp. The soldiers tried to kill the dogs, but the bullets went where there were passersby.

Madam Speaker, of late, there have been frequent attacks by mad dogs around the country, resulting in death. On Friday last week, in Sections B, C and D of Mtendere Compound, a mad dog attacked seventeen people. Is the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock in order to allow this situation of madness …

Laughter

Dr Mwanza: … coming from dogs? Is it because there is a food shortage that we are not feeding the dogs?

I seek your serious indulgence, Madam Speaker.

MR J. DAKA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHADIZA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MR NKOMBO, ON THE LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL AND ASSURANCE PLANS FOR CDF PROJECTS

Mr J. Daka (Chadiza): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, I just returned from the constituency, and I noticed with great concern how the construction of almost all Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects is being undertaken. For us to record quality on any construction project, we need quality control and assurance plans to be in place.

Madam Speaker, I will give you an example. When you are undertaking concrete works, you need to ensure that the client is present at the site because concrete has several compositions. There are reinforcements, fine and course aggregates, and cement. So, for us to ensure that the correct mix of concrete is achieved, the client should be present at the site. However, to my dismay, most of the construction works are being undertaken without the presence of the client. If this is not controlled, it may result in a disaster because we will not record value for money for these works. As such, we will have situation in which after the construction is completed, most of the works might have to be revisited. If not, the building will become defective. In some instances, you find that in a building, a door that would easily be closed a year ago, cannot be closed it anymore. Windows that used to open and close, cannot be closed or opened anymore.

Interruptions

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, if we do not provide a quality control and assurance plan for the works being undertaken using the CDF, the Government will record a lot of wasteful expenditure.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to allow these works to commence without any quality control and assurance plan being put in place first of all?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence on this matter.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON THE ALLEGED SELECTIVE APPLICATION OF THE LAW

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the matter I intend to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, last week, this House debated heavily on the protestors who were associated with the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer (LGBTQ) community. As a result of that debate, later on, we saw people being arrested and eventually released on police bond.

Madam Speaker, we are worried as a country because we are noticing a serious systematic way of arresting civil protestors who are not associated to the LGBTQ community, but those who were demonstrating against the project for the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway. The police could not release the latter on bond, unlike the case of the LGBTQ protestors.

Madam Speaker, is it ethnic cleansing that is taking place or it is a political matter? We seriously need the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to tell the House why others are released when others are denied bond. Kasonde Mwenda, Ibrahim Mwamba and many others were denied bond, yet lesbians were released immediately even though they were only arrested after an outcry from members of the public.

Madam Speaker, we need to know if there is a shift in how the laws are being implemented by the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MR KANG’OMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR KAMFINSA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON CELEBRATIONS FOR NATIONAL EVENTS

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I rise in line with Standing Order 134 to bring a matter of urgent public importance to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, national events are supposed to be an opportunity for different people to coexist. When we have national events such as the International Women’s Day and the Youth Day, this is when we must demonstrate not only to the current, but also to the future generations, that we are ready to coexist.

Madam Speaker, over the weekend, we had incidents of violence in selected places during Youth Day. As I stand here, there is a letter being generated by the Living Water Global Ministries Church in Kitwe to complain against the behaviour of the United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres in Kitwe, who entered a church to attack Patriotic Front (PF) members that sought refuge there. I am also aware that in Ndola, there were incidents of political violence and when we have an opportunity to coexist, we must harness the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, I raise this urgent matter directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. I know that you have always guided that for an urgent matter to qualify, it must meet your criteria. A matter of national unity such as a national event should unite us.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to not assure the country that national events should be opportunities for us to unite?

I seek your serious indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The last matter will be raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LABOUR AND SOCIAL SECURITY, MS TAMBATAMBA, ON THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE MINIMUM WAGE FOR TANKER DRIVERS

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134. The matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Gender.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Sorry, Madam Speaker, it is the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: It is the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali who is disturbing me.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: He is my brother. That was on a lighter note.

Madam Speaker, the matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security.

Madam Speaker, recently, the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security announced an increment for the minimum wage in the private sector. Tanker drivers are the ones who control our economy because they are the ones who transport fuel such as diesel, petroleum and kerosene. Those who do not have electricity use kerosene and diesel. Further, each and every food item is delivered countrywide using diesel and petroleum. However, since the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security announced the increment in the minimum wage, the tanker drivers and other drivers have not had a pay increase.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security in order to sit quietly while the drivers are suffering? Some of them go on international trips to go and get petroleum and diesel, leaving their families behind. In the process, their salaries are usually finished even before they come back to Zambia.

Madam Speaker, we seek your indulgence. I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We will start with the issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Chinsali directed at the hon. Minister of Health. He talked about an outbreak of measles in his area and wanted the hon. Minister of Health to conduct a vaccination exercise to avoid death.

The hon. Member might wish to know that the matter is localised to a constituency. I, therefore, advise the hon. Member to, maybe, use another channel. You can make use of urgent questions. I know very well that not long ago, there was a similar exercise that was carried out across the whole country. So, for that constituency, the hon. Member for Chinsali will raise an urgent question, so that the matter can be attended to by the Ministry of Health as soon as possible, instead of waiting for a ministerial statement.

We move on to the hon. Member for Kaumbwe. This issue was addressed to the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock. The hon. Member complained simply or in summary of stray dogs in his area and also in Lusaka. Let me just make it clear that the matter, according to the way he explained it, is not of recent occurrence. For it to qualify, it has to be something that happened recently, especially the issue for Kaumbwe. Kindly find other means of addressing the issue, maybe through a question. Your matter is not admissible under this Standing Order that we are looking at now.

We now move on to the issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Chadiza, who talked about the quality of works in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects. He complained that the client actually is not always there and there is no quality control plan in place that the contractors can follow. Again, the issue is not a recent occurrence. It has been there for a long time, according to him. Therefore, again, this issue is also not admissible under Standing Order 134. The hon. Member for Chadiza can find other ways of bringing the matter forward.

We now move to the hon. Member for Lumezi, who talked about a matter that requires the attention of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. He said some people associated with the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer (LGBTQ) protest were arrested and later released on police bond. However, there was another demonstration that happened over the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway, but he has not seen the people who were arrested released on police bond.

Hon. Member for Lumezi, this is a matter which we all know requires the attention of the Executive. Issues to do with bail are dealt with within the law. I do not know whether the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has anything to say on this matter. Is it true that some were given police bond and others were denied?

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the lawyers handling that matter have adequately handled it and everyone who was arrested is out of police cells.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We now move to the matter of urgent public importance raised by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa.

This one is also directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. The hon. Member talked about national events being very important to the nation as they teach us to co-exist with one another. He mentioned that there were pockets of violence in some parts of the country where a group of United Party for National Development (UPND) members attacked a church as they were following up some Patriotic Front (PF) members.

We all know that peace is very important. The President, every now and then, discourages violence amongst us. Since the hon. Member also mentioned that it happened in several parts of the country, I do not know if the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is ready again to say something now or we give him time to come and address us over the violence that was witnessed during the Youth Day and Women’s Day.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I inform the House that according to a report I have received, the violence that occurred in Kitwe, was started, …

Mr Mabeta: By PF!

Mr Mwiimbu: …by our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) and the police is thoroughly investigating the matter. All the culprits who are involved in this sad saga will be brought to book.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I also inform this august House that the President of the Republic of Zambia made a passionate appeal to the nation that we should not condone violence in this country. He did mention that we should not go back to the dark days of the PF, where violence was prevalent during public functions. We are aware that members of the public and the Opposition were being attacked at various functions that were held in the country such as at the Freedom Statue and the Cathedral of the Holy Cross. The attacks were widespread, unlike the recent happenings. Very few incidences of violence were reported. The only one we are aware of as police and as the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is the violence that happened in Kitwe, which was instigated by the PF, who were throwing stones.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members indicated to ask follow-up questions.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are these follow-up questions?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, indeed, as you guided, it would have been prudent for the hon. Minister to gather information from his various divisions because incidences of violence were not only recorded in Kitwe.

I was in Kitwe attending a funeral when these reports started emerging.

Hon. Government Members: No wonder!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam, this disorderly behavior really needs to come to an end. We are an august House. We need to respect you.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we, please, listen to the question on the Floor. What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, as I was saying, our colleague, the former hon. Minister, Hon. Sikazwe, lost his son. So, we were at the burial when we started receiving reports. Hon. Members from Kitwe, not only Hon. Kang’ombe, but also the hon. Member for Wusakile and the hon. Member for Masaiti were running around to try and attend to the people who were injured.

Madam Speaker, what was worse is that the national event was held in Kitwe where the President was. So, it would have been fair for the hon. Minister to wait for all the reports because Kasama was another area where members were attacked in broad daylight.

Madam Speaker, I have always said that the blame game will not sort out this problem. This problem will be with us for a long time if we continue apportioning blame on each other. Lawlessness is lawlessness.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Minister aware that it was not only in Kitwe where incidences of violence were recorded? I ask this so that we know how to take him on follow-up questions?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let me inform the House that actually, when these matters are brought up, if the hon. Minister is ready to issue a statement, he can go ahead just there and then and respond. If he/she is not ready, then he/she will advise so that we set a date for him/her to come and give a ministerial statement.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders are very clear that when a matter is under investigations, you cannot discuss it on the Floor of this House. I was merely acknowledging that there was violence in Kitwe and that the investigations are going on. I also mentioned that the President, who was present in Kitwe, condemned the violence that took place there. At an appropriate time and when the investigations are concluded, the nation will be advised.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. We are now guided. The hon. Minister has acknowledged that there was violence in Kitwe, which even His Excellency condemned. So, it would be fair, as he has advised, for him to come back at a later stage to update us after the investigations are concluded. The way it is now, we will interfere with the investigations that are already going on. The matter, which has been raised, has been acknowledged and that what is being said did happen. So, can we wait for a future date for the hon. Minister to come to this House to tell us what happened on that day and if it was only in Kitwe or, indeed, other parts of the country.

The hon. Minister can issue a ministerial statement on the matter raised on Wednesday, next week. I hope the investigations would have been completed by then and he would have gathered more information on the issue.

The hon. Member for Petauke Central Constituency raised a matter of urgent public importance on the minimum wage for tanker drivers, directed at the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security. We do not really know whether the matter affects all the tanker drivers in this country or whether he has carried out research on it. I, therefore, advise him to find other means of raising this question. It is very important, but not so urgent in the sense that someone could die.

So, please, find other means of bringing this same issue to the House.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT ROADS ON CERTAIN ROUTES

195. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

whether the Government has any plans to construct roads on the following routes:

from Sesheke in the Western Province direct to Kipushi in the North-Western Province; and
from Chiundaponde in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency direct to the Serenje/Samfya Road, near Tuta Bridge; and

if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a road from Sesheke in the Western Province to Kipushi Border in the North-Western Province.

Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a road from Chiundaponde in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency direct to the Serenje/Samfya Road near Tuta Bridge.

Madam Speaker, plans to construct a road from Sesheke, in the Western Province, to Kipushi Border, in the North-Western Province, will only be considered in future work plans, subject to the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, plans to construct a road from Chiundaponde in Kanchibiya Constituency direct to the Serenje/Samfya Road near Tuta Bridge may be considered in future work plans, subject to the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, Chiundaponde was, formerly, part of Kanchibiya and is now part of Lavushimanda. This particular area is strategically positioned to connect Muchinga Province, the Northern Province, Luapula Province and Copperbelt Province. It also connects to the Mbala/Mpulungu Harbour, especially if we are talking about targeting the Great Lakes Region; Rwanda, Burundi etc. In asking this question –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Your voices are so loud. I am sure even the hon. Member trying to ask a question is struggling to speak above the voices that are too loud. Can you consult each other in lower voices?

Hon. Member for Kanchibiya, you may continue.

Mr Chanda: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I commend the hon. Minister for indicating that there are plans to link the Western Province to Kipushi Border in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). This is a very important route. It sits very well and is in line with our desire, as a country, to link areas within as well as with neighbouring markets.

Madam Speaker, question (b) refers to a region that would provide a shorter distance for the transportation of goods targeting Mpulungu Harbour into the Great Lakes Region. What is of concern is that there are no plans. We know that plans can exist even without resources.

Madam Speaker, much as there would be no resources attached to this particular region, and the roads we are talking about, why would it be a problem for the Government to have a plan to open up that region, whether in the near or distant future?

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65 1(b) that states:

“(1) A member who is debating shall –

(b) ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, in responding to your directive, went ahead and mentioned the Patriotic Front (PF) as having instigated the fracas in Kitwe and later said that he did not have complete information.

Madam Speaker, is he in order to continue dragging a good party, such as the PF, …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: … which has numbers on the ground and people behind it, in all his debates while bouncing? Is he in order to continue on that trajectory and in that fashion?

Madam Speaker, just yesterday, the President said that if you do not know what you are talking about, kutumpa.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: So, is he in order to continue in that particular fashion and to drag a good political party, the PF, which is reigning on the ground?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what is the meaning of kutumpa?

Mr Chilangwa: Ukutumpa is being mischievous and stupid.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: That is the meaning.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What I can say on this matter is that we have already concluded and agreed that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security should come back to this House next week on Wednesday to give us an update on what transpired; whether it was countrywide or not. There were many areas that were mentioned, although I only heard about Kitwe, on the Copperbelt. Someone else also mentioned Kasama. So, we said that when the hon. Minister gives a ministerial statement, he will update the House on what transpired and what the Government is doing about it. He said that investigations are already underway.

Hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, you may respond to the question posed by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, with respect to the second question on Chiundaponde, first of all, to remind the House of the geography of the area, I think it is fair to say that from Mpika to Tuta Bridge, which is where he wants a direct link, currently, there is a connection via the Great North Road and Tuta Road, going past Mukando area.

Madam Speaker, in terms of whether there are plans or not, I assure the hon. Member that this has been brought to our attention by among others, the chief of the area together and his elder brother, who physically came to see me in the past to talk about this possible road. For now, we know that if one is travelling from Mpika towards Samfya, there is a road that can be used even though, it may be marginally longer than the route that the hon. Member is talking about. Ultimately, we need to open up all corners of our country. That is a possibility. This is also dependent on the contingency upon the availability of resources.

Madam Speaker, with respect to the hon. Member’s question and his comment, the plans are that we open up parts from Lufwanyama to Kankolonkolo, Kankolonkolo to Kasempa, Kasempa to Kaoma, Kaoma to Lwampa, Lwampa to Simungoma, on the Sesheke/Livingstone Road. This was part of the concession agreement that was signed, even though we have had difficulties with the concessionaire reaching the financial close, but we think that, as the hon. Member is saying, this is an important route, not only for our imports and exports but also for the movement of copper from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to the ports.

Madam Speaker, there is a lot of the public-private partnership (PPP) interest on this road but we have had to untangle the signed concession because we cannot move until that concession is resolved. With respect to the Sesheke/Kipushi Road, there was a contract for works to be undertaken by the China State Construction Company and it was then, rescoped to an all-weather gravel road. The Government is of the view that it must be tarred and there is interest in terms of the PPP from the turn off from Solwezi/Chingola Road, which is about 11 km from Solwezi, to Kipushi, which is about 125 km. This has been advertised and we shall begin the process of evaluating whatever bids come up as a PPP on this road. I must say that under the circumstances, for those roads that qualify, the PPP is the way to go.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether there is a plan to open up a route for the Great Lakes Region via Mpulungu Harbour to target the market from the Copperbelt, and if that plan will cater for shorter routes as opposed to the long distances that the transporters are subjected to via Kapiri Mposhi and Mpika.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration is always looking at ways to lessen the cost of doing business. The transportation of exports and imports is part of doing business. For example, the Mwenda/Kasomeno Road, in our view, can connect Mwenda to Luwingu, Luwingu to Kasama, all the way to Nakonde, and it can shorten the route and open up certain parts of the country that need to be opened up. The New Dawn Administration is looking seriously at another route which is Matumbo to Chama, Chama to Lundazi, and all the way to Chipata. That again, if you look at the map of Zambia, is also intended to shorten certain routes. So yes, wherever there are opportunities, we shall explore those opportunities to ensure that imports, exports and other goods in this country are transported using the shortest possible routes.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I thank you for recognising the people of Solwezi East to ask a follow-up question. The hon. Minister will recall that him, the Provincial Minister and I had gone to Kipushi Border and we saw the state of that road. It is now two years and two rainy seasons have passed but nothing has been done. I was there yesterday and the people are concerned because they do not know where the money that the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) had put in towards that road went. So, they want to know about the PPP arrangement. I know of some companies that have submitted and solicited for bidding.

Madam Speaker, the people of Solwezi East would like to know when they will see the Solwezi/Kipushi Road being upgraded to bituminous standard because when schools opened, thanks to the President through the Ministry of Defence, the girls at Mushindamo Girls Secondary School were being taken to school by the army trucks. That was agony because for ten days, trucks were stuck on that road. When will we see contractors move to that road? Are we going to have another rainy season and go through that same hell? Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Solwezi East if the road will be worked on.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East, Mushindamo District, for that follow-up question. However, let me correct him. It is not two seasons ago that I was on site. It was in fact, last year, in 2022, in February, when I travelled all the way with the hon. Member to the Kipushi Border. That is an indication as to how seriously we are treating this particular road. It is one of those roads that will connect us to the DRC. We have stated time and again on the Floor of this House that we are looking at the DRC as a potential market that will help us to grow our economy.

Madam Speaker, the Kipushi Road is one of the roads being considered for upgrading to bituminous standard using the PPP. I have said that our colleagues who were there before us had rescoped it to what they call an all-weather gravel road. The New Dawn Administration decided that this road be a bituminous standard road. To this effect, a tender for undertaking a viability study for the implementation of the project using the PPP model is currently going on. The hon. Member and I are constantly engaging each other, and I must accept that he has brought some of the potential concessionaires on board. That is why I advised hon. Members that wherever they think there is a possibility for PPPs and they identify people who are capable of doing the job, they need to bring them on board so that we can discuss with them and where possible, they can undertake the works on any particular road or infrastructure as soon as possible. The Solwezi/Kipushi Road will be worked on. We are currently analysing the offer from the potential concessionaire, and when this is done, the House and the people of Mushindamo District will be informed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I am glad to learn that the road leading to Kipushi Border is being considered, and that the process has started. I am positive that the process will be completed because I was in Ndola when the hon. Minister was signing the public-private partnership (PPP) agreement for the Ndola/Lusaka Dual Carriage Way. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning assured me that the Mufulira/Ndola Road will also be worked on through a PPP model. How has this Government managed to convince investors to work on roads in Zambia using the PPP model when it was so difficult in the past?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I hear a question regarding which road we have worked on. The Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road is being worked on and the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way has been signed off. However, the hon. Member’s question is that how have we, as the New Dawn Administration, managed to undertaken these projects when others before us failed lamentably?

Madam Speaker, it is because of the transparency which we bring to public affairs, and the honesty, integrity, desire and focus to bring real development to this country. We do not have resources because of an economy that was mismanaged. Further, we inherited a negative growth because of the heavy debt, and we are unable to borrow for infrastructure development. So, I must state that one of the New Dawn Administration’s key policies is undertaking projects through public-private partnerships (PPPs). We shall not be distracted by anybody in terms of our ability and desire to undertake infrastructure development using PPPs. This is the way to go and we remain focused in implementing public infrastructure development, where ever it is possible, using the PPP model of finance.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO REHABILITATE DILAPIDATED HOUSES FOR POLICE OFFICERS IN KALABO

196. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the dilapidated houses for police officers in Kalabo District; and
if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, Kalabo Police Station has twenty-two dilapidated housing units for police officers. Out of these, twenty are occupied, while two of them are unoccupied due to the deteriorated state. The number of dilapidated houses is twenty-three. The units are in disrepair and have been condemned for human habitation. In order to mitigate the situation, the Government has decided to not rehabilitate the houses, but to construct forty-nine modern houses in Kalabo District in the second phase of the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security Housing Project.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented when fiscal space permits and when ongoing projects are completed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the people of Kalabo who are listening to the response are delighted. I agree with the hon. Minister that the houses are grossly heavily dilapidated, but what temporally measures can the Government put in place to enable the officers at least live decent lives whilst waiting for that good project?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, due to the state of the houses in Kalabo, the Government is not in a position to rehabilitate them. When the houses are condemned by authorities, they should not be occupied and the officers are given a housing allowance in order to rent houses somewhere else.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, can the Government also enter into a public-private partnership (PPP) with the private sector to allow those who want to build houses to do so and to rent them out to the police officers? Is that possible?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the Government’s policy pertaining to public-private partnership (PPP) projects has been pronounced by the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. If there are any interested parties who would want to undertake a PPP project pertaining to police houses, they are at liberty to consult the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGE ON KAMPHEMBA RIVER

197. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

why the construction of the bridge on Kamphemba River in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;
when the project will resume;
what the total cost of the project is; and
what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the construction of the bridge on Kamphemba River in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency has stalled due to funding challenges.

Madam Speaker, the project will resume once funds are secured.

Madam Speaker, the cost of the project is K121,167,634.95, Value Added Tax (VAT) inclusive.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the completion of the project is fourteen months from the commencement of the works.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm whether the Kamphemba Bridge has been provided for in the 2023 National Budget because a lot of work has been done on that bridge and only a few works have remained.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, when the hon. Member and I visited the site, that was last year about the same time as now, what had been done on the Kamphemba Bridge was that out of about twenty-five piles that where required something like twenty-one had been done and we did make a commitment that we will continue to provide resources to have those extra piles done because that particular site was important. When the rains are heavy and the Kamphemba river swells up, Chief Kampombo and the others on the side get cut off and as Government we noted that it was not right and must be corrected. So, we have made a commitment that the bridge will be completed so that Chief Kampombo and the others are never cut off again. That commitment was made then and it remains the commitment of the New Dawn Administration.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, may I know from the hon. Minister when the funds will be secured because each time when you are asked a question, you always say “when the funds will be secured”. Could the hon. Minister kindly assure the people of Chama North when the money will be secured.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, when we took over Government, the project had been abandoned by those before us, but being a caring and listening Government, under the direction of a focused President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, we said that we were going to do it. When I visited Chief Kampombo, I committed myself in the presence of the hon. Member of Parliament for the Constituency, and when we say that this will be done, I think the hon. Member who has asked the question must take our word as words of a truly caring Government.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just informed the House that the Matumbo/Chama Road and the Chama/Lundazi Road are being earmarked for public-private partnerships (PPP) and the Kamphemba Bridge is on the Chama/Matumbo Road. Does the hon. Minister not think that if the bridge is not expeditiously constructed, it will affect the PPP model?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Chama North is fully aware that I am also fully aware of the geography of the area. On the Matumbo/Chama/Lundazi Road there are two bridges and the bigger one is the Luangwa Bridge and the next one is the bridge on the Kamphemba River. We have said we will do it and beyond that, we will work on attracting the PPP partners to undertake that corridor. It is a very important corridor in terms of the plans of the New Dawn Government to open up the country.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is asking that I should ask two questions, but the Standing Orders only allow one question.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chama are not interested in good wording and speeches. We are interested in seeing the bridge being done. The hon. Minister has stated that his Colleagues in the former Government had sunk twenty-one piles out of the twenty-five. Is the hon. Minister in a position to assure the people of Chama whether the bridge will be done this year or next year, so that we know? We know that with PPPs, it is as good as being told that we will never have the road done because the hon. Minister knows that with the financial closure that he is talking about, no one will be willing to put in money into PPPs in the areas where the flow of traffic is not economically viable. Is he in a position to assure the people of Chama that the Kamphemba Bridge will be done this year or next year? At least the hon. Minister should give us a timeframe, so that we hold him to account.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the Acting Leader of the Opposition for that follow-up question.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the commitment of the New Dawn Government to undertake that bridge comes from many angles. One of the angles is to make sure that the area around Chief Kampombo is not cut off. For so many years there was no bridge on this spot and we are going to do it. When the time is ripe, I will go back to the site to make sure that my instructions from the last time, have been followed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, we know that the option of the PPP model especially on the mentioned road and linked to the bridge is not feasible as things stand. In the budget, there is only K250 million for constructing 600 km of roads and the schedule for the bridges and the roads that are supposed to be done have been tabulated. I think the hon. Minister needs to tell us where the money to carry out the project will come from since he said that the money can come from different angles. The budget has stipulated which roads are going to be tackled in the 250 million and 600 km.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, first of all, categorically, I did not say that money will come from various angles. It is the desire to undertake the road project and the interest groups that have been pressurising us to have the bridge done – This question is about the bridge. The project of the bridge itself is not part of the PPP that is proposed for the Matumbo/Chama/Lundazi Road. This is a separate project; it is about Chama to Lundazi then Lundazi to Matumbo. We will undertake works on the bridge and that is the commitment of the New Dawn Government.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister said that Kamphemba Bridge works stalled due to the lack of resources. Work on many bridges has stalled. Works on bridges in Lundazi, Musuzi and other areas have stalled. When these projects are stalled, do they cost the Government any money or they do not?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Lundazi wants to know whether stalled projects cost the Government money. She would have been better served by asking those on her side who were running the Government who stalled these projects. These were not stalled by us. The Musuzi to Lundazi bridge, which is very important and leads to her constituency, was stalled by the previous administration. It is this New Dawn Government that started working on both bridges and very soon, we shall go and reopen those two bridges which lead to her constituency. She knows that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I think there is a segment of the question which has not been attended to. Do the stalled projects cost the Government money?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, there are a number of projects which have stalled. On some, there are interest payments, standing charges and so on and so forth. That is why on the Floor of this House, the New Dawn Government, either through the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development or through myself as Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, has talked about cancelling contracts. What reasons have we given for the desire to cancel contracts? It is to save Government money. If there was no cost associated with stalling of contracts, we would not have been talking about the possibility of cancelling these contracts.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, the President spoke about the progress made under one of the national values, which is human dignity. When I debated last week, I did indicate that there is no dignity in suffering. Our people are suffering.

Madam Speaker, the high cost of living is affecting our people in compounds and rural areas, including my constituency, Mpika. It means our people there cannot live a dignified life. We have high prices of fuel, mealie mealand other essential commodities.

Madam Speaker, the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) Basic Needs and Nutrition Basket (BNNB) report states that a family of five needs about K9,900 for it to live a dignified life in a month. How many of our people are able to afford that? Of course, very few. This President, one year eight months ago, promised the Zambian people that he would fix it. The Zambian people want the real fixing that will translate into them living a dignified life.

Madam Speaker, if the harsh conditions of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) are not bearing any fruit, let the Government withdraw from them and reintroduce subsidies on fuel and electricity for our people to live a dignified life.

Madam Speaker, we have a high unemployment rate standing at 13.0 per cent and it is expected that this trend might continue going up. We want industries in areas such as Mpika, Kasama and Chinsali for our people to live dignified lives.

Madam Speaker, Article 59(c) talks about the person who makes appointments to ensure that at least half of the appointees are youths. Recently, we were told by the Zambia Statistics Agency (ZamStats) that the national population stands at 19.9 million and that 70 per cent of that are youths. When you calculate 70 per cent of 19.9 million, you will find that youths stand at 13 million. Even the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts is run by a person who is not a youth, though he is hardworking. Even the Permanent Secretaries (PSs) and directors at that ministry are not youths. The youths need to be given an opportunity. So, there is no equality in the appointments that have been made, more especially in the Cabinet with regard to the Constitution.

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I know someone wants me to say “thank you.” I am not going to thank you. As I continue, let me say that the President was right yesterday when he said someone who is doing wrong things, kutumpa. Those who are not fulfilling the campaign promises –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, translate that word you mentioned, kutumpa.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, it is a presidential word which means “mischievous”.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is it possible that you can move a little bit away from the microphone?

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the microphone is –

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The microphone becomes too loud when you are very near to it.

You may continue.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I was talking about the inequality that we as youths are facing. We are only considered during campaigns. The youths out there are very frustrated and they have appointed me as their co-ordinator. They are very frustrated because their aspirations have not been met. The youths need a voice. They need to be taken care of. Even empowerment opportunities are given to only those who sing praises. How many have opportunities to sing praises? We need equality.

Madam Speaker, our youths also need opportunities. The Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) are suffocating under these policies. Farmers are complaining because they cannot live a dignified life. This Government should lend an ear to the youths and pay attention to the suffering of our youth and our people so that our people can live a dignified life.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I appeal to the President to balance the appointments he is making. Otherwise, it will be considered that we are now in an ethnocracy where only people from one, two or three regions are considered for various positions. That is called ethnocracy and we do not want to go that route.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, as we debate, let us, please, be mindful of some of the things that we are saying such as they have appointed you to be their National Youth Chairperson. So, I do not think it is all the youths or, maybe, the youths in your constituency. So, it is better to say some or most. We do not know,’ but do not generalise it. That is just a guide.

Let us move on.

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to comment on the speech delivered on 24^th February, 2023, by His Excellency the President of this Republic, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, on the progress made in the application of national values and principles.

Madam Speaker, in this speech, His Excellency the President gave many examples of the scenarios that are happening in the country to authenticate what he presented to this House. So, as I debate, I will also bring in examples.

Madam Speaker, the story of illegal immigrants who are arriving in this country dead in distilled truck containers and tankers makes sad reading. In human history, people have always migrated in search of green pastures. Therefore, we cannot create barriers in the 21^st Century for people to migrate or to go and search for greener pastures elsewhere. We cannot criminalise the movement of people when we know that the economy in the middle-east is good and there is a need for cheap migrant domestic workers to flourish, just like in the Western countries, where they also need cheap migrant labour to flourish. That includes South Africa. Are we truly a global village if we can allow movement of money, but restrict the movement of people? That comment was on patriotism. Let me now move on to national unity.

Madam Speaker, national unity seems to be eluding the New Dawn Administration, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: … which assumed power on the platform of meritocracy. To the contrary, appointments in public offices are tending to be favouring people from the bantu botatwe ethnic group ...

Interruptions

Hon. PF Members: Hammer!

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Kalobo: … and, therein, lies the ant-hills for the New Dawn Administration.

Madam Speaker, the people of Wusakile and Zambia at large are wondering what has happened to the mantra of meritocracy in the Public Service. The New Dawn Administration needs to walk the talk on the ‘One Zambia One Nation’ motto by not creating a bantu botatwe Government.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65. It is incumbent upon all of us in this House when we rise and speak, to do so speak on issues that can be backed by evidence. Is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to make those frivolous and malicious statements without taking into account what his Government did?

Madam Speaker, as we debate here, we should never forget history.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Mwiimbu: No! I am raising a point of order. No!

Mr Mukosa rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chinsali! Please do not assist me. I am attentively trying to listen for me to come up with a ruling. I am going to tell him to stop if he is debating. Can you please give him a chance?

Mr Mukosa rose.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Chinsali, can we, please, be orderly? Let us not try to exchange words with the hon. Member on the Floor. It has to be through the Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has made very serious allegations. As he is making those serious allegations, is he not aware that the Patriotic Government (PF), in its time, had more than 90 per cent of civil servants from one region?

Mr Mukosa rose.

Mr Mwiimbu: No! Wait! What is your problem?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Members!

Mr Mwiimbu: Wait!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, hon. Member for Chinsali! Please, I said do not assist me. I am listening.

Hon. Minister, please, summarise your point of order.

Mr Mwiimbu: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I was saying, is he not aware that under his Government, more than 90 per cent of Government and Cabinet were from one region? The civil servants were from one region. Is he in order to mislead this House that there is nepotism and that people are being appointed from one region, when they were the culprits? When we compare, the regions of Zambia are adequately represented in his House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Hon. Members, we have been debating this speech for almost seven days now. How difficult is it to follow it? When we bring in other issues that are not contained in this speech, we have disagreement in the House. Can we, please, just follow what is contained in it? That way, we will be orderly and not go astray. So, the hon. Member on Floor, please, as guided, can you be specific to issues that are raised in the speech so that you do not bring disagreement in the House?

So, with that guide, you may continue.

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, I thank you for the guidance. What I just said was drawn from page 8 and paragraph 5, which extends to page 9, where His Excellency the President acknowledged the diverse nature of the ethnic groups in the country. The ‘One Zambia One Nation’ is also indicated there, but I am well guided. Let me leave this subject and jump to democracy and constitutionalism.

Madam Speaker, our young democracy seems to have suffered some setbacks following the electoral dust which was raised in Kwacha and Kabushi Parliamentary by-elections.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: The voter apathy we saw, Madam Speaker, confirmed one thing that we cannot have democracy without democrats. While the courts were busy working hard trying to provide guidance on the two by-elections, the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the Presidency camped in Kwacha and Kabushi Constituencies only to win them with about 6,000 votes.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear! Shame!

Mr Kalobo: The apathy we witnessed, Madam Speaker, in itself was a clear vote of no confidence in the UPND Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: To grow our democracy, Madam Speaker, we should be seen to be creating a level playing field for all.

Madam Speaker, let me comment on constitutionalism. Constitutionalism is anchored on the rule of law. What we saw in Kabushi and Kwacha Parliamentary by-elections was an erosion of the rule of law. That is the reason the United Party for National Development (UPND) should not celebrate the cosmetic reforms that are in the Public Order Act. Whilst defamation of the President has been removed, we are still witnessing truckloads of citizens being taken to court over the so-called hate speech under the cyber laws. Freedom of expression is a fundamental human right which is guaranteed by the Constitution and it cannot be stifled by vague subsidiary laws.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer!

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, good governance calls for integrity and transparency, but the citizens of this country do not know the net worth of the President.

Mr Nanjuwa: He is a businessman!

Mr Kalobo: Yes, we know he is a businessman but there are serious genuine concerns that might affect him. How can one say that he wants to fight corruption when he has failed to declare his assets publicly so that the citizens of this country can demand for social accountability at the end of his first and last term, this very one?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalabo: Madam Speaker, in this House, questions of integrity arise on how these economic managers in the UPND Government are running the economy. The UPND was voted for on the platform of home-grown economic transformation, yet the micro-economic fundamentals have exposed these economic managers on how they are running the economy. They have given tax incentives –

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Mwembezhi to add a word to this very powerful Motion on the Address by His Excellency the President.

Madam Speaker, I want to state that the corruption of yesterday, ba kabwalala bakale, ba kabwalala ba nomba, naba kabwalala ba future –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mwembezhi!

I have already guided that let us follow what is in this speech. When you use a word in vernacular, please translate it. In the Standing Orders, it is very clear that when you use a vernacular word you have to translate it. Let us be mindful of the content of the speech. So, can you translate ba kabwalala ba mailo and whatever you said?

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I meant the corrupt people of yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Madam Speaker, the President was very categorical when he talked about morality. In short terms, morality is to know what is good and bad.

Madam Speaker, the President and his Government have scored in making people know what is good or bad.

Madam Speaker, before the President took over power, the people of this country did not know what was good or bad. Whenever there was a meeting somewhere, we would see cadres driving vehicles using wrong lanes with their heads outside the windows. Today, whenever the President is coming from the airport going to Statehouse, you will not see people standing in queues shouting, “Aleteka, aleteka!” There is nothing like that. The people of yesterday did not know where the left and right were. They were moving like headless chickens. The President has scored in the area of improving this country. Currently, there is no cadreism.

Madam Speaker, before President Hakainde Hichilema became President, people could not move around dressed in red t-shirts. If you are –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, try to avoid words that are provocative like the headless chickens. Who are these that were headless?

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Try to avoid that. You may continue.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that in the past, people adopted what was wrong as being right. In trying to bring morality, President Hakainde Hichilema said that what is wrong must be considered to be wrong and what is correct must be correct. You cannot come to Mwembezhi and start sharing land which does not belong to you and you say it is a good idea.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order Madam Speaker.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, does it mean that those people did not know that the land belonged to the people of Mwembezhi? They did not know what was right or wrong because they were morally bankrupt. The people who –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mwembezhi!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. As a way of introduction, you just demanded that bad expression such as, “headless chickens” should not be used and the hon. Member of Parliament for –

Hon. Members: Mwembezhi!

Mr Kafwaya: No. Not Mwembezhi but Siavonga. Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Siavonga mentioned my name that I am the one.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I need to protest on that because I think, I still have sufficient grey matter. My point of order is on my hon. Colleague who is on the Floor of the House, who claims that the President has scored success because there is no cadreism. This afternoon, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security accepted that the United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres beat up their colleagues in Kitwe, yesterday. They stoned Patriotic Front (PF) cadres, yesterday. In Ndola, UPND cadres caused havoc. In Kasama, UPND cadres caused havoc at the police station. We have catalogued the ugly faces of cadreism during the UPND Government.

Madam Speaker, is my hon. Colleague in order to state that the President has scored success because there is no cadreism when in fact, cadreism has been extended even to offices for civil servants.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much for that point of order. Again, let me mention that it was agreed that the matter of urgent public importance that was raised will be dealt with next week. That matter was closed and finalised.

So, the hon. Member who is debating, please, be mindful of some of the issues that have already been mentioned in this House. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security actually agreed that he has received reports of violence. In fact, he mentioned violence and not cadreism. He said he has received reports that there is violence in some parts of the Copperbelt and then somebody mentioned Kasama. However, we agreed to deal with that issue next week. I do not know whether cadreism and violence are one and the same thing. There were many issues, but violence is on its own. So, when you say the President has scored success because there is no more cadreism, it depends on the definition of cadreism.

Hon. Members, like I guided, can we focus on the speech. We are even misleading the country by saying there was cadreism, violence or this and that. What the President brought out in the speech is very clear. So, please, let us stick to the speech. That issue will be dealt with next week. The hon. Minister will even tell us whether there is still cadreism or there was just violence or whatever happened. We will be able to know. As far as we are concerned, the President said that there is no more cadreism.

With that guide, hon. Member on the Floor, stick to the President’s Speech. The people are following the proceedings. What is it that you want, especially your people from Mwembezhi, to hear pertaining to the President’s Speech? What do you want them to learn from the speech?

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, let me read what the President said on page 9 of the speech, to re-emphasise what I am talking about:

“We are delighted to report that cadreism and political violence have been brought under control. Our people are now able to go about their business without fear of being harassed.”

I am quoting what the President said. The people of Mwembezhi would be harassed at Soweto Market. They could not sell their tomatoes. They would be told to surrender the impwa they would bring and they would be harassed. Today, they are doing their business in a good environment. This is a score. Why are you disputing what I am talking about?

Madam Speaker, in the past, the people of Mwembezhi used to live in fear. Fear of what? These people called the Patriotic Front (PF), sent people to Mwembezhi – records are there – to harass the people on their own land in Kawena Protected Forest Area No. 42, and they made them slaves. Then today, they are saying that we should not talk about bakabwalala.

Madam Speaker, imbila ya mumushi, tabayasukula.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, you are fond of using vernacular words.

Mr Jamba: Let me interpret, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is no kabwalala in English. Can you, please, –

Mr Jamba: Corrupt people. In our language, there is no better word than thief; corrupt people. So, these corrupt people got our land from Mwembezhi. They are now regrouping and saying that they are saints, yet they grabbed land in Mwembezhi. How can these thieves today, or sorry, corrupt people today, come back and talk about morality? How can they talk about morality when they grabbed land from people?

Madam Speaker, let me continue.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, avoid being provocative. I think that is what we are supposed to follow as well.

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You keep on saying the corrupt people are here. Try to be calm.

Mr Simumba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Use a tone that is not provocative.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before you continue, there is a point of order.

You are attracting many points of order. Please, just debate the President’s Speech. It will guide you on the issues to debate.

Hon. Member for Chitambo, what is your point of order?

Mr Mutale: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65 is very clear that the information we provide on the Floor of the House must be factual.

Madam Speaker, the first thing the debater would have done was to declare interest on the issue of land that he has brought up in this House. I know that that man there is a surveyor, and he is appearing in court because of land issues, and over the same land that he is talking about.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your point of order?

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, is he in order to talk about land issues when he has court matters over the same land he is talking about? Is he in order to abuse those who are outside this House, who cannot defend themselves and have taken him to court? Is he in order to debate the way he is debating forgetting that he is in court with certain people?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We are now going astray. That is what I have seen. The Standing Orders do not allow us to debate ourselves. We are now debating ourselves by saying the matter is in court and he is also involved. Can we refrain from debating ourselves.

May the hon. Member on the Floor, focus on the speech.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, my voice is just like that and I shall not be told how to use my voice and cord. That is how I am.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, what I am saying here is that, integrity entails that you cannot grab something which does not belong to you. You cannot go to Mwembezhi and allocate plots to yourselves, and say that is integrity, no. Some people got land in Mwembezhi and shared it amongst themselves. The people of Mwembezhi are suffering and the President said they are actually working on this, so that the people of Mwembezhi are given what they are supposed to be given.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about integrity because some people are talking about it. My niece was employed at the Zambia Correctional Service. The recruits were taken to Kaoma, and the day they arrived in Kaoma, they called names like Jamba, Shakabizi and Hang’anoku at 2300 hours. I can cry – After calling them, they grouped them and told them to pack their bags and to go back, yet they had already shaved their heads. They called the names of those from the Southern Province, the Western Province and the North-Western Province, and all of them were sent home. My niece is a witness.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, today, these people are talking about integrity when the President employed teachers and police officers without any segregation. The Cabinet is actually comprised of people from all the provinces. How can they talk about integrity?

Madam Speaker, the President has scored success. I was previously an Independent Member of Parliament. Do you know that someone was saying – even if we are not allowed to debate ourselves – that “have you seen who has come to work with you. He is actually from this region. Can you disalign him.” What can they say today? The people who have no integrity have regrouped. After regrouping, they want to come back and they think this country can be ruled without integrity and morality.

Madam Speaker, the President is actually walking the talk …

Ms Sefulo: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: … because he has shown it in through the employment of people, through his Cabinet and by saying that all those who are corrupt today, there will be no sacred cow. However, I am only disappointed with one thing and I know that the President is listening. He has used kid gloves on the thieves of yesterday. Why is he trying to babysit these people? If Executive does not know, these people are re-grouping. He is too kind with them. There is no need to just beat the snake at the tail and leave the head to move around. That is why on Copperbelt, the President was heard saying ‘ukutumpa’. It is because the snake is still alive.

Madam Speaker, what I am saying, here, is that we have heard the speech and it is a very good one. Further, we are saying the President has scored. We are saying the President is a good person who is able to talk about morality. They arrested him but he did not pay back. If he paid back, some of the people who are seated here were not going to be sitting here because they are the perpetrators of evil.

Ms Sefulo: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, they are the ones who were the perpetrators of evil.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Order, hon. Members on my right!

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order pursuant to Standing Orders 64.

Interruptions

Mr Chilangwa: Kutumpa uko. Uko kutumpa.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: Nde eba iwewine weulesekesha.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kawambwa, you have now started exchanging words, instead of raising a point of order.

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is no point of order.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you just withdraw what you had said.

Mr Mutale: Jamba used the same word.

Mr Chilangwa: Jamba just used it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, that is why you were supposed to raise a point of order.

Mr Chilangwa: That is why I am here.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In fact, I was still coming to the hon. Member who was on the Floor. It is only that the hon. Member for Kawambwa stood up for a point of order.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your point of order?

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor of the House, in order to allege and point to all of us on the left that we are perpetrators of evil when he cannot substantiate that, and he is allowed to continue with his debate in that fashion.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have already guided that we are not supposed to debate ourselves, but the tendency is growing. You have started debating yourselves. The hon. Member was out of order.

Hon. Member for Kawambwa, avoid using certain words.

Hon Members, you are so honourable in this House, so you are not supposed to use certain words whether somebody has used them. If somebody insults, we are all not going to insult. So, let us avoid using unparliamentarily language.

Similarly, the hon. Member who was on the Floor, you are also an honourable Member of Parliament. Let us refrain from using unparliamentarily words. The people are listening.

When you say ‘bakabwalala’ and so on and so forth, the people are listening and even imagining how many thieves there are in the House. Let us try to not use unparliamentarily language because all of us in the House are Members of Parliaments. So, with that guide, the next hon. Member to debate, please, avoid debating one another and let us not use unparliamentarily words.

Hon. Member for Mwandi, you may proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you so very much for allowing the people of Mwandi, through me, to debate the President’s Speech. However, before I debate, let me recognise the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation and the appointing authority. I should mention that I was debating in the European Parliament and I received great support from the Zambian Embassy in Brussels.

Madam Speaker, you can tell that the Government is serious by the appointments that they make. The Ambassador and First Secretary are technocrats. Let me appreciate the Government for the great work that it did. I really appreciate the service and support I received from the Zambian Embassy in Brussels. It can show that we do not have cadres in the Foreign Service.

Madam Speaker, as the President was delivering his speech, I was in the European Parliament. I was surprised that the speech back at home was being debated in such a way.

Madam Speaker, no sooner had I opened my laptop to listen to our President, did other delegates come to listen to the speech that was being delivered by the Zambian President.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Ms Sefulo: Yes, they sat with me and listened.

Madam Speaker, let me that we have made so much progress. Let me first begin by saying that even as we are debating the speech, I wonder why we are talking about the progress that we are making here. It is undebatable. It is straightforward and it is there. The President and Cabinet are doing a great job.

Madam Speaker, let me mention that I was in Parliament when the hon. Minister of Health, here, stood and said we had unsustainable debt. From whom did we acquire the debt? I was here when the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, stood and said we had unsustainable debt. I was here when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning stood, here, and spoke about the debt the country had that was left by the former Government. Surely, the Government is now trying to fix the mess that was left, but the same people who brought about the mess are there standing up. Are we really serious by condemning the people who are trying to fix the mess that they had brought about?

Madam Speaker, when we are talking about the progress that we have made, we started from zero; there was nothing. The President came into this House and said there was nothing that was left in the coffers. The President and Cabinet are trying by all means to make sure that we progress. Here we are debating all the things that were brought about by the same people who were in the former Government. They are here standing up and speaking about the same things.

Madam Speaker, I wish I could use the word that my hon. Colleague used, but I will use it in English. That is being very mischievous and very dishonest to the people of Zambia. The same people whom they had dragged were in Canaan and they took them back to Egypt where they were suffering. Now, the Government is trying to take the people out of Egypt where they are suffering, but they are there opposing, that is very unfair.

Madam Speaker, we are talking about national values. If we could think back, way back, just two years back in this country, we, as women, witnessed on Youth Day when a woman, like me, was stripped naked.

Mr Simumba: By whom?

Ms Sefulo: In the presence – It is public knowledge. It is a public knowledge that a woman like me was stripped naked.

Mr Simumba: By whom?

Ms Sefulo: By the former.

Madam Speaker, today as we are talking about national values, we watched as we celebrated women day our colleagues also wear their regalia. They matched side by side with us. Please, do not take the democracy and unity that we are bringing to the people Zambia for granted.

Madam Speaker, let me tell my hon. Colleagues that it is something that is owed to them. We, as the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, understand that that we owe the people of Zambia the peace and unity. We want ‘One Zambia, One Nation’ to be the walk of the talk of the UPND. That is why even on Youth Day, they were free to match and enjoy the day. This never used to happen when they were in the Government. These people just have to accept that they were wrong and that they never did things correctly. They should support us as we do the correct thing. However, what they are doing is standing there and opposing all the correct things we are doing.

Madam Speaker let me come to the issue of the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I sat here in disappointment as I heard someone say that the increased CDF is not enough.

Should these ones talk about the CDF not being enough?

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Kafwaya, sit down!

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, in their time, not only was the CDF minimal. It was K1.6 million.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Please, those who want to raise points of order, just indicate on the gadget. I will see you.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just indicate. I will see you.

The hon. Member for Mwandi may continue.

Ms Sefulo: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker.

We are talking about the increased CDF and our colleagues are making fun of it. I have seen progress in our rural constituencies, not only in Mwandi, but also in their constituencies. I have seen so many of them posting on social media how much progress the CDF has brought to our various constituencies.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Members, it is very easy when you indicate on this gadget (raising the tablet in her hand). It will show that there is a point of order being raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, when a female parliamentarian is debating, it is very unfair to disturb her line of thought. However, the female parliamentarian has used the word ‘mess’ three times, which she knows very well is unparliamentary.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member for Mwandi in order to point at us and say, “you were free to march”, when in fact, Youth Day has nothing to do with the Patriotic Front (PF)? It has everything to do with the young people and as far as I can see, there are no youths here. How can the hon. Member accuse us of being free to march when in fact, we are not youths?

I seek you serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you hon. Member for Lunte. For using the word ‘mess’, of course the hon. Member for Mwandi was out of order. However, when she was talking about marching, I thought she commented on the Youth Day and the Women’s Day. The women marched, but of course, you have said there are no youths on the left.

Hon. Member for Mwandi, I think I have already guided. Let us try to avoid discussing ourselves. Let us not bring ourselves into our debates. Let your debate stand alone, without you bringing in the hon. Members who are in this House.

So, with that guide, hon. Member, try to put your words appropriately so that you do not involve the hon. Members in this House and avoid pointing at them. If you want to refer to them, try to find suitable words.

The hon. Member for Mwandi will continue with that guide.

Ms Sefulo: Much obliged, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I was talking about the increased CDF. This Government has not only called for increased CDF, but actually done that. Today, as we speak, the same youths we are purporting to love so much are the same youths they failed to give meal allowances to at the university. These are the youths who, according to our colleagues, are allegedly saying the Government has failed to do this and that. Maybe, I am lost. Are they not the same youths our colleagues failed to give free education to?

Madam Speaker, I have observed a tendency where people in this House debate as though they are not the ones who were actually harming the youths. The Government is trying everything possible to make sure the youths are empowered. Today, as I stand here, with free education, I know that every child who is growing up in all the corners of this country has a chance of becoming a Member of Parliament because one only needs a Grade 12 certificate. So, this Government is actually empowering the youths.

Mr Speaker, I spoke about meal allowances and decentralisation. So, we have also made strides. We have scored. I sit here and hear that we are failing to deliver on the CDF because of rigidities. Today, the hon. Minister stood here and said approval has been given to the provinces. So, when it comes to scoring, it is up to the hon. Member of Parliament. If you do not want to see, you will not see, but the people in this country are seeing peace and unity. They have seen it.

Madam Speaker, you can also see how free the same people who did not allow other people to be free in this country are. They are free to talk about the President and anything they want to an extent of abusing that freedom. So, the strides that have been made by the United Party for National Development (UPND) cannot be underestimated. We have done well and we will continue to fix it.

With that said, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Ministers who want to debate can indicate so that we do not leave them out.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Kaumbwe, to debate the President’s Speech that was delivered on 24^th February, 2023.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I want to say that the President had a very good opportunity to inform the nation on the progress made in the application of our national values and principles, which he did. The 21 paged speech is rich. The pronouncements made by the President through this speech are rich and give hope for a better future.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: What we see; the pronouncements, as made in this booklet, are good. However, what is obtaining on the ground is the opposite.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government has been in Government for almost one year and eight months. The progress made on national values could have been more quantitative than being qualitative.

Madam Speaker, the pronouncements by the President, which are much appreciated by the people of Zambia and the people of Kaumbwe are as follows: on illegal immigrants, the Government has said it will employ border guards curb illegal immigration, but what is obtaining on the ground is that the New Dawn Government has totally forgotten about informal borders. We have many informal borders like the Mozambique Border in Kaumbwe Constituency, Kapoche Constituency up to Chipata. We, the people of Kaumbwe Constituency depend on the Mozambique/Zambia Border. Many problems exist in that place where security is concerned.

Mr Speaker, the President’s pronouncement about the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a very good statement, yet what is obtaining on the ground is different. The people are not well informed. What is it that the CDF is not increased. It has simply paralysed the central Government’s obligations ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: ... and set them on the CDF. The amount of money that the Patriotic Front (PF) used to give as CDF was much more effective as compared to what we have now.

Madam Speaker, examples to do with the implementation of the CDF were already given in the speech. In 2023, the Government has given directives that before we even spend the K28.3 million, we –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that the CDF has not been increased per se. However, the people of Kaumbwe Constituency appreciate it. For us, who come from rural constituencies, it is a game changer.

Ms Sefulo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

A point of order is raised.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order 65. I was seated, listening to the hon. Member on the Floor debate. Maybe, he should explain to the House what mathematics he is using to say that the CDF has not been increased when, in actual sense, it has been increased from K1.6 million, which was discriminately given, to K28.3 million, which is given to everyone. So, what mathematics is he using to come up with this information, in the process misleading the nation and the world that the CDF has not been increased?

Hon. UPND Member: He is an old man.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, help me understand what mathematics the hon. Member is using. I am worried about him continuing his debate.

Hon. UPND Member: Chinese mathematics.

Mr Mung’andu interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chama South!

Hon. Member for Kaumbwe, I was wondering as well.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: Ema Speaker aya!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: My fists became very cold …

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … that the CDF has not been increased. I do not know what he is trying to say if K28 million plus, as compared to K1.5 million is not an increase. Even just looking at last year’s CDF allocation, which was K25.7million, there was an increment. Now, I do not know what the hon. Member was talking about. He is out of order, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … for misleading the people and himself.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.

Dr Mwanza: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Speaker.

I am not going to respond to the question about the mathematics because it is a simple derivative equation. The obligations of the Central Government; Ministries of Education, Health, Agriculture, fisheries and Livestock, and all infrastructure development projects have been lumped onto the CDF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Mwanza: There is even a direct example in the 2023 CDF allocation. Before we even start spending the money, we have already received mandatory instructions that K 1 million should be allocated to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA).

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Mwanza: K1 million should be allocated to the construction of chiefs’ palaces; and K1 million should be allocated to buying a vehicle for the Police Service. So, more than K7 million has already been allocated. When I was making the mathematics – numbers do not lie.

Hon. PF Member: Hammer!

Dr Mwanza: When I calculate, it comes out that the K28.3 million that is propagated comes to, maybe, K2 million to K4 million. Is that what they call an increment?

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Dr Mwanza: They further abrogate the CDF guidelines. We set up ward development committees (WDCs), and constituency development committees (CDCs) to actually plan for the expenditure of those monies. However, we receive instructions to say that before we plan, we must allocate a certain amount to a given activity. We were just supposed to receive advice. For example, the people of Kaumbwe Constituency need electricity. There is no way we can donate K1 million to REA for it to allocate electricity access to other constituencies. We are going to plan for that K1 million to be used in the electrification of Kaumbwe Constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I move on to what I call ai guo zhe he guojia tuan jie.

Laughter

Dr Mwanza: It means patriotism –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what language are you using?

Laughter

Dr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, our Standing Orders are very clear. If you use a different language, you need to translate. I am using the Chinese language. I will translate. What I said is that ai guo zhe he guojiatuanjie.

Laughter

Hon. Member: The Chinese speakers are happy.

Dr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, ai guo zhe he means patriotism, guojia means country, tuan jie means unity; patriotism and national unity.

Hon. UPND Member: Awe, you are just lying. You are just guessing.

Dr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, the President’s pronouncements were very clear. Even in my preamble, I said that if we worked according to what was contained in the speech, this country would be different. However, most of the lieutenants –

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! Your time is up.

Interruptions

Mr C. M. Mpundu (Chembe): Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

Mr Speaker, values direct individuals, organisations, and societies at large in terms of what they strive for and what they deem important. These values are culturally approved but the unfortunate part is that they are under threat.

Mr Speaker, on pages 4 and 5 of the President’s Speech, the President talked about the many ills things that are happening in our society and, mostly, things to do with the family institution. A family institution is very important because it builds the society. If we neglect this, then we are creating a time boom in the nation.

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, prudent for the Government to build a roadmap of how this family institution which is under threat is enhanced. It is an institution that we must reckon. It has been echoed in the speech that we have high rates of divorce cases and illicit activities in terms of drugs in this country. What is critical is to have a roadmap of how these vices will be curtailed, moving forward.

Mr Speaker, in the President’s Speech, it has been recognised that the family institution is under threat but what the people of Zambia need is a roadmap. What should be born in our minds is that these family values go along with our traditional methods of doing things. Many a times, we have concentrated on conventional methods of doing things that are harmful to our societies.

Mr Speaker, in as much as we can imitate things from the West, it is important that we do not fall prey to those things. We know that globalisation has come with its own dynamics. We need to have limitations. If we are to achieve progressive national values, we need these two to move in tandem. In as much as we are using conventional methods, we should also focus on traditional methods because these national values, as I have already mentioned, have been approved by our cultural practices. We know that we have neglected our cultural practices.

Mr Speaker, it is here, where we have been struggling with poverty. Mostly, this poverty is in terms of sustainability, which is mentioned in this speech. We are struggling with poverty but many a times, in focussing on fighting poverty, we do it using conventional methods. It is not that we are short of traditional methods that can help us to fight this poverty.

Mr Speaker, there are certain cultural practices that we have in Zambia. For example, in the olden days, when a child was born and before he was given a name, the uncle to that child was made to give that child a chicken or cow. That meant that as that child grew, his wealth would also build up. In such a scenario, would you expect such a child to suffer even if he was an orphan? That child can still survive and sustain himself. So, I can only say that in our sustainability, we have mostly focused on conventional methods. We have tried this.

Mr Speaker, how much aid have we received from the donors? How much money have we received from the International Monetary Fund (IMF)? Has it reduced our poverty? No! The reason is that we are only relying on one method to make us sustainable.

Mr Speaker, the other example I can cite on sustainability is agriculture and I will focus on the maize seed. I think we have ignored our traditional maize seed that was put in a hut and smoked for preservation. I have not heard the hon. Minister of Agriculture give a roadmap of how the traditional seed can also be harnessed with the hybrid seed that we are using. That method is able to sustain us in terms of poverty but we have not taken that roadmap. Many a times, we have only focused on the hybrid seed. All the hon. Members here know that we have neglected this seed. That seed does not even need fertiliser. We used to grow it and it is very nutritious but we have not taken that roadmap. Now, how can we sustain these national values that we are talking about when we are forgetting our own traditional ways of doing things?

Mr Speaker, we are saying that we are bringing in home-grown solutions but these have to encompass the traditional methods. We are still struggling with the scourge of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). We saw how COVID-19 ravaged us so badly but we only came to realise at last that steaming could help us to curb this scourge. In the beginning, we relied on conventional medicine. I therefore, want the hon. Minister to start talking about traditional methods.

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

Mr Speaker, the President came to this House with a very clear and simple message to update the nation on what the Government has done. He outlined that schools and health facilities had no teachers and health workers, respectively. He further mentioned that the Government would employ and that was done but to some people, that is not progress. The reintroduction of meal allowances for our children in school is not progress to some people.

Mr Speaker, regarding the increment of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I got shocked that somebody could say that the CDF was never increased. The things that the President mentioned will be done from the CDF are many and they will cost us even more than K1.6 million. Some of the mathematics that we use out there is not applicable in this House. It is from China anyway.

Laughter

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, cadreism is gone. You can have pockets here and there but cadreism is gone and my colleague, Hon. Mufaya knows this. It is gone. The cadreism where we would see the Patriotic Front (PF) youths, dangling on top of the minibuses moving around or packing in the middle of the road with pangas, cannot be seen this time. You can now walk freely at the Intercity Bus Terminus, and you can put on anything.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us avoid debating whilst seated. He is referring to the issue of cadreism, and the President in his speech talked about values. So, let us avoid debating whilst seated.

Hon. Member, you may continue. You have my protection.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, what I am outlining is the progress that this Government has made. In everything, we have seen progress. We no longer see the cadreism that was at Inter-City Bus Terminus and that is what we are talking about. The famous ka mugodi that used to be somewhere is no longer there. Talking of corruption, this Government means well and it is fighting corruption without leaving anyone behind. There are no sacred cows in the fight against corruption.

Mr Speaker, one of the presidential candidates for the Patriotic Front (PF) said you cannot feel something if you are in it. That is what Hon. Chishimba Kambwili said. If you are in it, you cannot feel it. Auditing is being carried out at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, but some people are agitated. They want to interject and they are saying the Government is doing something wrong. However, they know that this is the money that was supposed to be used to work on the roads, like the roads in Chama North, Chama South and other places. That money was going into individual pockets. The Ndola/Lusaka Road was supposed to cost the Government US$1.2 billion, but the cost was brought down. Today, everybody is up. They say insoni ebuntu, meaning a human being should have a sense of shame. We brought down the cost of the road from what they wanted it to be and they have no justification whatsoever for the initial cost. They cannot explain why it would have cost us that much. The difference –

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me raise a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(1) (b), which states that a member who is debating shall ensure that the information provided to the House is factual and verifiable.

Mr Speaker, it is in the public domain that after twenty-five years, the amount of money that the concessionaire will realise will be US$2.4 billion.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! You did not cite the Standing Order that has been breached.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I cited Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Which paragraph?

Mr Kapyanga: 65(b).

Mr Speaker, I was saying that it in the public domain that after twenty-five years, the concessionaire will realise US$2.4 billion and the construction of the road will cost US$670 million. US$2.4 billion plus US$670 million gives us US$3.4 billion. Therefore, is the hon. Member on the Floor of the House in order to mislead the nation that this road will be constructed at a lower price when he knows that the Government will be losing the money that it is supposed to collect from toll gates, which money will be going to the concessionaire? Is he in order, therefore, to mislead the nation even when he knows that the cost of the road will be US$3.4 billion.

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling so that the people are not misled by those who do have what to say on the Floor of the House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. I like the way you are speaking with so much passion. However, for the hon. Member to know that the Government will make a saving, he must have based that on the information that was given by the Government. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development issued a ministerial statement on the Floor of the House two weeks ago, if not a week ago, on the inquiries and assertions that hon. Members were making as regards the cost of the same road, and he was clear that the Government will save huge sums of money. So, the hon. Member is not out of order.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, I love my colleague. Nobody can ever take him seriously anyway, because he called other human beings cockroaches. It is okay; we accept.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, we get the information the hon. Minister gives us in this House, not on social media where he is getting that –

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Siavonga!

Let us avoid debating each other. We are not allowed to debate each other in this House.

Hon. Member for Mpika, you just have to indicate for a point of order whilst seated. We have gadgets now. We are not living in ancient times. When you indicate, you do not need to shout on top of your voice. I will see that you have indicated a point of order.

May the hon. Member for Siavonga continue.

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, I was saying that one of the great sons of the PF, Mr Chishimba Kambwili, who was with us here said when you are inside the system, you will not feel it because you are inside that system. However, I do not know how to interpret that. At times, people fail to see what others are seeing. We forgive them as they have said. Concerning that road, the hon. Minister explained, on the Floor of this House, that we are procuring that road at a cheaper price as opposed to what our colleagues wanted to do. So, getting information from social media is not acceptable here.

Mr Speaker, I was saying that in fighting corruption, we have seen the people who are being investigated. The Deputy Permanent Secretary and some presidential appointees were suspended or fired to pave way for investigations. This never happened under the reign of our colleagues and they know this; they never did that. This is the reason the world over has a lot of confidence in the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government.

Mr Speaker, every time these people went to knock at the door of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), they were chased.

Hon. Government Members: Yes, they were chased.

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, they would be asked that, “where are you coming from. You people who can just be dancing.” However, when the UPND Government came into power, the President and the Cabinet indicated how they will use the money and the IMF listened. When the President went on foreign trips, he came back with something in his hands. However, previously, what we could see are bottles of Jameson.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central the opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga.

Mr Speaker, the Standing Orders are very clear that an hon. Member is supposed to be factual. The hon. Member said “these people”. We want him to be specific. Which people were chased? He should be specific and say this person was chased. So, we want to know which people were chased.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Member should have been categorical in stating which ones were chased, though, here, we speak in the third person. We cannot speak directly that Hon. J. E. Banda was chased, no. So, if the hon. Member said “these people were chased”, everyone knows what he is talking about. However, it is better to be very categorical.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, thank you very much. I want to remain factual as I have been factual from the beginning. I am a factual man. One of the hon. Members of Parliament in the House, as a cadre, attacked officers at a police station. He went there. This is the reason I am saying we are a dignified Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulunda: We can never allow somebody to go and harass police officers. That is a fact. We cannot do that. That is why I am saying that when it came to negotiations, the international community looked at all those things and they said we cannot sit together. The negotiators at that time were not allowed.

Mr Speaker, you may not be aware that one of the cadres, at that time, went to urinate in someone’s mouth. Can you imagine? What value is there? Can we have people behaving like that? Zambians have woken up. They can never –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the House is guided by rules, and some of your rulings become part of the rules of the House. Beyond our Standing Orders, your rulings are a guiding principle. How come you have guided the hon. Member on the Floor twice that we do not debate ourselves but he has continued to do so. He has said that one hon. Member who used to be a cadre is in this House. It is not a secret that he is debating us.

Mr Speaker, is he in order to continue? If that becomes a precedent, allow all of us to start debating ourselves. If that is allowed, allow us and we will do it with a lot of passion.

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. If I heard the hon. Member correctly, he said that one of them then was a cadre.

Hon. PF Members: He said “here”!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: He said “here”?

Interruptions

Hon. PF Member: He said one of the cadres here.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think I have guided that even if that hon. Member who urinated in someone’s mouth could be here, we are not allowed to debate ourselves. That is what I am trying to say. At whatever level, we should not debate ourselves. Let us avoid debating ourselves. I think this should be the normal practice.

May the hon. Member for Mufulira debate.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, when the President came here, I listened very attentively to the speech that he presented to this House, and through the House, to the nation at large. I agreed with most of the things that he raised. I just want to expand and give the other side of why implementation of some national values and principles has been affected.

Mr Speaker, the President bemoaned the increasing levels of gender-based violence (GBV), domestic violence and divorces. Indeed, these vices have increased in the country. There are actually causes. If you read newspapers and see the matters in the courts, you will see what is causing GBV and divorces. Some of the stories behind the vices may look petty to some people, but they are actually destroying family bonds.

Mr Speaker, the men of this country, including the women, are under a lot of economic pressure to provide for their families. There is a lot of unemployment. There is the lack of economic activity. There is high cost of living as the report recently released by the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) has shown. In fact, from January, the cost of living has been rising. The men who are supposed to take care of families or homes as the heads are under increasing pressure, such that when a man is leaving home and the wife is asking for K20 or K50, and he knows that he does not have, just that pressure alone is leading to GBV. A husband comes from galivanting from looking for ways for survival and finds that the only relish that he was expecting to find home has been eaten by a child. The child then suffers beatings.

Mr Speaker, the Government needs to take care of all the challenges that are causing GBV and divorces. We need to create employment. We need to revive the companies that create employment. In Mufulira, we are looking forward for Mopani Copper Mines Plc to come back to life. We are used to the rhetoric that it will come, it will come. Very soon, things will happen. However, the problem is that people are no longer busy economically. The mine is not providing employment and paying suppliers. People are going back home empty-handed. When you go home, you find your wife and your children asking about bread or mealie meal. That is why we are seeing a lot of violence. That is why we are seeing many divorces taking place. So, what the Government needs to do is to make sure that all the companies like Mopani Copper Mines Plc and Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) correct the challenges that they are facing.

Mr Andeleki: On a point order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament who is addressing the nation and the world, in order to mislead the world that the cost of living has gone up, without laying evidence of whatever he is talking about on the Table of the House? He is talking of the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) report, where is that report?

Mr Speaker, is he in order to mislead this nation that there are no jobs being created, when the Patriotic Front (PF) which was in power could not manage to recruit the number of teachers that the Government has recruited?

Mr Speaker, is he in order to mislead this nation that we are not creating employment as a Government, when health workers have just been employed? Right now, we are considering the list of Zambia Air Force (ZAF) officers and Zambia Army officers. Is he in order?

Mr Speaker, the PF ran down the mines and left everything in shambles. Is this hon. Member in order to mislead the world like that without laying any evidence on the Table of the House?

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Mwila, let us debate facts and things that we are able to substantiate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: If we talk about unemployment or the cost of living, we should be factual because we are all aware that the hon. Minister of Education was on the Floor of the House some time last year or there about and indicated how many jobs had been created and the number of teachers that have been employed. Equally, Hon. Masebo, the hon. Minister of Health, came on the Floor of the House with a similar announcement. So, if you are rebutting what was presented on the Floor of the House, you should do that with facts because people are listening. It is not necessary to just politick. If you are rebutting what was presented on the Floor of the House, you should be able to come with facts because as far the House is concerned, what was presented on the Floor is that 30,000 teachers were employed and many others.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, avoid talking while I am making a ruling. It is like you are trying to undermine my office.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member continue, but let us be factual.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I feel very sorry that when we are debating national issues like this, you can allow points of order that are actually insulting Zambians. Are we not aware that the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) produced a report for February 2023 and said that the cost of living has gone up by K230? Are we not aware that fuel, now, is at K29 per litre? Are we not aware that the exchange rate is now at K20.50? Are all these not contributing to the rise in the cost of living?

Mr Speaker, we may argue here, but Zambians are actually agreeing with what we are raising.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: If hon. Members want to rise up and disturb the flow, the people are listening. I was elected by the people of Mufulira to speak for them and this is the message I am also bringing. When I talk about Mopani, they start asking who caused the problem. In Mufulira, people are tired of the reference to the Patriotic Front (PF) when you talk about Mopani. All they want now is for Mopani to be up and running in order for it to create jobs and pay the suppliers and contractors. If they want to be rising here and saying it is the PF, they will remain with the PF in their mouths while the people kick them out in 2026.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, let me move on. Our national motto is ‘One Zambia, One Nation.’ We have grown up living with this national motto.

Mr Michelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, I am rising on a point of order under Standing Order 65 (b). The hon. Member debating here is lamenting about bouncing back into power; that the PF is going to win elections in 2026. That is the meaning. I am worried about the people of Zambia because the people who destroyed this country, brought violence, stole a lot, destroyed the economy and under whose leadership people were gassed – During their reign, mealie meal was at one time going at K285 per 25 kg. Is he in order to debate in such a manner when the people of Zambia suffered under the reign of the PF, including those who voted for them in 2016, who were even gassed under its reign.?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I know that hon. Members from my left are raising points of orders. Apparently, our rules do not allow raising a point of order on another point of order. However, let me guide the hon. Member for Mufulira to stick to the debate on the Floor of the House because –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Wait! I am still guiding. You are going off your way by being political hence, you attract opposition from people with divergent views. Hon. Member for Bweengwa, two wrongs do not make a right. I know that the hon. Member …

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I am making a ruling and then, you are trying to …

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No! I am still making my ruling. I am trying to guide him that if he rises on a point of order, he should cite what has been breached other than being political the way he was, but before I even make my ruling, you are there standing. This is why often times, I like sending people out.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Member for Mufulira continue.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I was actually moving away from that topic.

Sir, the President talked about the “One Zambia, One Nation” motto. In his speech, he said this has been and should remain the firm foundation upon which this nation is anchored. I agree this is a very firm foundation. Our forefathers inculcated the “One Zambia, One Nation” spirit in all of us. However, when you look at appointments under the UPND Government for constitutional office holders, appointments in the foreign service, appointments of boards and chief executives for parastatal organisations, appointments in the security wings, you will see that all these appointments I have talked are only reflecting the Southern Province, the Western Province and the North-Western Province. Zambia has an area of about 752,000 km² with more than seventy-two ethnic tribes.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am saying this and Zambians are witnesses to what I am saying, ...

Hon. PF Members: Hammer!

Mr Mwila: … and they are watching. Even the retirements that are happening are only, …

Mr Mubika: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, I rarely rise on points of orders.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, I rise on this point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. Is my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira, in order to say that the appointments by His Excellency the President were tribal? He has mentioned the Southern Province, the Western Province and the North-Western Province, yet all the provinces are well represented, starting from our Cabinet.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Mubika: Is he in order to mislead the nation in that fashion?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us desist from making political statements and trying to gain political mileage based on tribal issues. Let us not divide the country. The composition of this House, Cabinet and so on and so forth is enough to make us see whether it is representative of all the regions or not. We know that because we know who the hon. Minister of Agriculture is, who the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation. We know who the hon. Minister of Energy and we also know who the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development is.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! There is some noise coming from the right.

Let us avoid dividing the country further. The country is now healing. So, as leaders, let us avoid, at all cost, making political statements that will injure our people. The listeners who are watching these proceedings are hearing that the Presidential appointments were selective and that they were based on ethnic groupings. In some circles, the people of Zambia have the composition of the Cabinet is in their offices and they know. I do not know whether Hon. Mtolo is from the Western Province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, hon. Members, let us avoid making our political statements.

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am speaking according to the message from the people of Zambia who have no opportunity to come and sit here, but have elected us to speak for them. You may want to dispute this fact, but let us not downplay the tribalism which is destroying “One Zambia, One Nation” under the current Government.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: It is real.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I have guided. You follow my guidance. We have said let us not be tribal in our debates. Countries have gone to war because of tribe, and Zambia has always been united. Regardless of our different ethnic groups, we have been a united people. So, let not this Parliament that was ushered into office in 2021 divide the country, no! I think the Head of State has tried his best to ensure that this country is united. We are also an arm of Government. So, let us ensure that we cement and harness the goodwill the Head of State is trying to attain.

The hon. Member for Mufulira may continue.

Mr Mwila: Much obliged, Mr Speaker. However, let me just remind the House that Zambia is beyond the Southern Province, the Western Province and the North-Western Province.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, let me move on.

Mr Chinkuli: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, may –

Hon. Government Members rose.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am moving on.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May you resume your seat.

Hon. UPND Member: Why is that guy like that?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you want to cause mayhem in this House.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us not come into this House with a pre-conceived mind.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I rise on Standing Order 203, which addresses the conduct of Members of Parliament. Specifically, this goes to the hon. Member who, in my view, under Standing Order 202, has abused the privilege that is bestowed on us, hon. Members of Parliament.

Sir, I have been quietly listening to his debate and, clearly, it has become apparent – maybe let me first declare interest before I make this point of order. I am a Tonga by tribe, and not by my own making. I did not choose to be one. When the hon. Member stands up and says Zambia is not the Southern Province, it is a very offensive kind of comment, at least, inside of my body.

Mr Speaker, I have been watching the narrative in the last few days that even hon. Members who appear to be decent have been influenced by the remnants of their glorious past where the issue of ethnic cleansing was the main agenda.

Is the hon. Member of Parliament, whom I somewhat respect, in order to now target a tribal grouping, those of us who come from the Southern Province, and state that Zambia is not the Southern Province, a comment that I find extremely offensive, maybe, even more offensive than being called a cockroach.

I seek your ruling on this matter so that it can serve the generations that are coming after us, that when we do come to a House such as this one, we take much more of a broader interest of a national character than try to continuously box an ethnic grouping. This was something we suffered when we were in the Opposition and, clearly, maybe, with a bit of reference; the President of Patriotic Front (PF), who was then President of the Republic, sitting in Choma, indicated that, in reference to the current President: “I am not saying a Tonga cannot be President of this country, but not this particular Tonga,” meaning President Hakainde Hichilema could never be the President of this country.

Mr Mubika: Shame upon him.

Mr Nkombo: I seek your serious ruling.

As I end, I congratulate the Sixth President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for coming back into active politics. We welcome him with both hands.

Mr Shakafuswa: What kind of talk is that?

Mr Nkombo: Take it easy. Calm down. I welcome President Lungu with all dignity that goes to a former President who wants to come back into active politics. He is welcome back to join us into politics.

I seek your ruling, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mufulira, under our standing orders, you know that if you contravene the ruling of the Chair, who is the Speaker, you commit an offence. I guided you several times. So, if you are guided and you go against my ruling, you attract some penalty of some kind. So, that aside, what I require of you now is, firstly, to withdraw the statement and, secondly, to apologise to the House …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … for your divisive statement. As a Member of Parliament, you should not thrive on division, especially singling out a region. I think now our politics are – Let us not incite people out there. Let us avoid opening old healing wounds in this House. So, withdraw that statement and apologise to the House.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am much guided and any part of my speech that has caused discomfort is hereby …

Mr Chinkuli: He knows what he talked about.

Mr Mwila: … withdrawn and apologise unreservedly.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Indicate what you are apologising for.

Hon. PF Member: No!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Yes. When apologising, even when you wrong your own wife, you tell her kuti, my wife, I apologise for this and that. So, apologise in that line.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I need your guidance because I have been speaking for the last 7 minutes and –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You singled out a region. It is you who knows that region, you cannot forget just now. Apologise and withdraw what you said.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, any unjust reference to the Southern, Western and North-Western provinces is hereby withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, allow me to proceed.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can proceed.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the President also spoke about climate change and the devastating effects that it has caused households across the country.

Mr Speaker, the problem we have with dealing with the effects of climate change, especially the floods that have ravaged communities, is that we have untimely response to the disasters that are affecting our families. Today, for example, in my constituency, there are households that were damaged in the last rainy season, but the district Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) ended at just monitoring those houses and taking note of the names of the residents and number. It has been twelve months and nothing has happened to support those families. They are now enduring yet another rainy season. If the DMMU does not change its operations now, I dare to speak that it ends up being a disaster itself rather than managing disasters that are affecting our citizens in this country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: As you are aware, Friday was the last day for Back Benchers to debate. We just used our discretion today to allow them to debate. At this time, I call upon the Front Bench, starting with the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation to respond to the concerns that were raised in your debates.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to render my vote of thanks in support of the President’s Speech on the progress made in the application of national values and principles as delivered to the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly. I will focus on the following issues: morality and ethics, human dignity, equity, social justice, equality, non-discrimination, and good governance and integrity.

Mr Speaker, morals and ethics play a critical role in shaping the moral fibre of our nation. Morals and ethics are key components of a person’s character and they help us distinguish right from wrong and understand how to live a good life based on the values that we hold sacred. Morals and ethics enable us to see the consequences of our actions, and motivate us to do what is right. Therefore, without morals and ethics, we would be lost as a nation.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, stated in his Address to this august House that moral uprightness is key to achieving meaningful national development. However, as a nation, we still experience a high prevalence of vices such as alcohol and substance abuse, teenage pregnancy, child marriage, and gender-based violence (GBV).

Mr Speaker, alcohol is sold everywhere nowadays because of the breakdown of law and order as experienced in the immediate past regime, where licences were issued to even home shops to sell alcohol. This is exposing our children and others who are under age to alcohol. This is an issue which requires to be addressed as soon as we can.

Mr Speaker, child marriages and teenage pregnancies are social ills which continue to be a source of concern to the Government. Child marriages threaten the lives and wellbeing of the future of young people, especially young girls. Child marriages rob young people of their childhood and threaten their lives and health.

Mr Speaker, studies have shown that girls who marriage before the age of eighteen, are more likely to experience domestic violence, high poverty levels, and poor health outcomes. Child marriages also impose substantial economic costs at the national level.

Mr Speaker, this is why the New Dawn Government, under the visionary leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, introduced free education among other interventions, as a way of not only keeping children in school longer but also, to ensure that we have a well-educated citizenry that will contribute meaningfully to national development.

Mr Speaker, GBV, continues to be a source of concern in our country. This is where we experience women being buttered, in most cases, to death. This also affects the men folk. It is important that all hon. Members of this House, civic leaders and traditional leaders get involved and work hand and glove with the Government to ensure that this scourge is brought to an end.

Mr Speaker, we encourage strong marriages and families which are a foundation for a healthy and united society. The rate at which marriages are breaking up in our country is worrisome. Therefore, His Excellency the President was in order and on firm ground, when he urged families, the church, civil society organisations (CSOs) and other stakeholders and leaders to intensify their efforts in supporting and safeguarding the institution of marriage.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, in his Address stated that social media and the internet have increasingly become a part of our daily lives and interactions. It has been observed that social media continues to be abused by some of our people through issuance of hate speech and divisive statements. The country has, through social media, witnessed defamation of character. This has the potential to lead to physical violence, and mental stress, which may result in depression among others. Social media has also been used to defraud unsuspecting users which could lead to loss of investor confidence in the economy and reverse the gains that the Government has so far made. Therefore, there is need that we all take responsibility and use social media for the intended purpose rather than dividing the country.

Mr Speaker, access to clean and safe water and sanitation services was one issue the President emphasised on and I want to say that this remains one of the top priorities of the New Dawn Government. I wish to take this opportunity to reiterate the Government’s commitment to enhance access to clean water and sanitation services through increased budgetary allocation.

Mr Speaker, allow me to thank His Excellency the President for providing guidance regarding the use of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to prioritise the construction and rehabilitation of piped water and sanitation schemes for communities and public institutions such as schools, health centres, markets and bus stations. This is progressive as it will contribute to the attainment of universal access to clean and safe water and sanitation services in line with the Sustainable Development Goal (SDG) No. 6, Vision 2030 and the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP).

Mr Speaker, good governance is an important precursor for transforming the economy, sustaining economic growth and promoting human dignity thereby, safeguarding lives and livelihoods. I commend His Excellency the President and this New Dawn Government for ensuring that there are good practices of good governance by making sure that those threats that we experienced in the recent past, of people taking the law into their hands, sometimes, even things that are clear, are no longer there. I think, businesses were threatened because people took the law into their own hands through cadreism. We are grateful that this has been brought to an end and people are able to do their businesses without the lawlessness that prevailed then. We hope that this can continue.

Mr Speaker, the national values and principles underpin the moral fibre of our country and are fundamental to Zambia’s social economic transformation. Let me therefore, appeal to all our stakeholders such as churches although, we have seen a practice where people want to be doing politics in churches.

Mr Mubika: Imagine!

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, these are churches that witnessed a few years ago, hon. Members on your right being brutalised. Hon. Members had no freedom of worship. Even in graveyards, at cemeteries, people were brutalised and yet, people can shamelessly stand or sit there and say that things were alright. We want to appeal to churches to introspect and serve these institutions fairly. In churches, there are different members of political parties. So, this Government and based on the submission of the President, hopes to continue ensuring that the morals, ethics, and good practices continue in this country so that we can continue laying a strong foundation for our children.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mbangweta): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to say a few words on the speech which was delivered by His Excellency the President on the Floor of this House. From the outset, I commend the President for the short but insightful speech, he ably delivered here.

Mr Speaker, capacity or competence is judged by deeds and not pontification. For example, are we sure that people need a long speech to differentiate the capacity of a government that in five years, from 2016 to 2021, could only pay a paltry Constituency Development Fund (CDF) amount of K3.2 million, and one which in one year, paid K25.7 million, and the following year, increased the amount to K28.3 million.

Mr Speaker, we, on this side, are intrigued by some of our colleagues who have been persuading us to not speak about the past. Why? Contrary to the enemies of progress, we assure them that one cannot talk about the present or the future without referring to the past. On this basis, let it be known and understood that we shall not stop referring to the past because we are not so naive. Contrary to the insinuations being made by these enemies of progress that we should stop talking about the past, we will not because the past has brought us where we are today.

Mr Speaker, the other point is that the speech given by the President was about the progress made on the application of the national values and principles. So, how can we ignore the past in the evaluation of our performance? In effect, are we not being compelled to talk about the past and compare with the progress we have made thus far? If that is the case, why give a long speech? What the President simply did was to provide the figures and those will speak for him. For example, under water and sanitation, it was reported that 1,416 boreholes were sank during the period under review while an additional 1,226 boreholes were rehabilitated. The same cannot be said as having happened in the past. In the past, those boreholes were phantoms and this time around, there is a difference because hon. Members of Parliament are engaged and they are able to decide where the boreholes should be sank.

Mr Speaker, under patriotism and national unity, I thank the President for condemning tribalism at page 9 of his speech because it is retrogressive. If there is one major success which the New Dawn Government has achieved is the removal of the feeling of entitlement from some sections of the so-called entitled or landed gentry. This country belongs to all of us. That is why we all pay taxes. Of course, the landed gentry in the new order will continue complaining because they feel they lost something, but nobody ought to pay attention to them. On the contrary, we should not tire to show them the light.

Mr Speaker, we saw, for example, how the previous regime perpetuated tribalism and appointed people of particular tribes to key Government positions, awarded Government contracts and side-lined other tribes. Other professionals were dismissed from their jobs on the basis of their tribe. The result of this was the promotion of mediocrity as opposed to recognising talent and giving all Zambians an equal opportunity to thrive in their businesses or professions. In contrast to what is happening now, the New Dawn Administration has given equal opportunities to people of all tribes in this country, be it recruitment, empowerment programmes or business. This Government has also made significant progress in reinstating those who were dismissed by the previous Government simply because they belong to certain tribes. This is, indeed, commendable.

Mr Speaker, in the past, cadreism and political violence was the order of the day. Our people could not freely operate and conduct their businesses in the markets and bus stations for fear of being harassed or even attacked. Political campaigns were treated as a matter of life and death. To the contrary, the New Dawn Government has managed to restore peace in our markets, bus stations and the campaign fields. People are now able to conduct their businesses in the markets and bus stops freely irrespective of the party they belong to or support. Even politicians from Opposition parties are able now canvass for votes in the same space without violence. What a relief.

Mr Speaker, when we came here, the second week, in 2016, we were tear-gassed in Luanshya by some of our Colleagues here. When we came here, they looked at us in the face and told us that we were making up stories. What a shame.

Mr Speaker, under human dignity, through you, let me convey the gratitude of the people of the Western Province for the decision made by their listening Government in decentralising the approval of Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects to the provincial administration. This will ensure efficiency in the approval processes and therefore expedite the implementation of CDF projects.

Mr Speaker, further, the decision by the New Dawn Administration to issue the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) Circular No 1 of 2023 that has placed all CDF procurements under reservation schemes in line with the Public Procurement Act No. 8 of 2020 is yet another measure that has been greatly appreciated by the people. This will ensure that contractors and suppliers resident in our constituencies will be given priority and preference in the procurement of CDF projects.

Mr Speaker, good governance and integrity are prerequisites to national development. As a people, we are very happy with the stance that the New Dawn Government has taken to prioritise the fight against past, current and future corruption. The fight against corruption has yielded results as evidenced by the resources, which have been recovered from corruption. Interestingly, what do we see from the suspected wrong doers? When they are visited by the law enforcement agencies to explain themselves, they run to various stakeholders including the traditional authorities to complain that they are being persecuted on the basis of tribe. What they are forgetting is that when they were involving themselves in the nefarious activities, they were doing it alone. So, by doing so, are they being fair?

Mr Speaker, corruption is a hindrance to development. Most of the projects, which were started by the previous regime, were not completed mainly because they were merely a conduit of corruption. The projects are a witness to the devastating effects of corruption. However, as a responsible Government, the projects have not been neglected but have been prioritised for completion to ensure that the money spent already does not go to waste.

Mr Speaker, in concluding my address, I thank His Excellency, the President, for the leadership that he is providing that has enabled the New Dawn Government to make such remarkable progress in the application of the national values and principles within a short time.

This is why it is said that those who are competent do not need to justify themselves because their deeds speak for them. Equally, long speeches are not necessary when facts and figures are presented. The citizens of Zambia can clearly see and differentiate day from night. That is why they appreciate our President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Mr Speaker, I propose that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1819 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 15^th March 2023.

____________

Order Paper

parliament.gov.zm

Search form

You are here

Tuesday, 14th March, 2023

Order Paper

parliament.gov.zm