Tuesday, 7th March, 2023

Tuesday, 7^th March, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government Business, the hon. Minister of Defence, Hon. L. Lufuma, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 7^th March, 2023, until further notice.

I thank you.

POINTS OF ORDER AND MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to guide the House on two important Rules of Procedure, namely points of order and matters of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 131 and 134 respectively.

It has been observed that some hon. Members still do not seem to know when and how to raise each of these matters.

Points of Order (Standing Order No. 131)

Hon. Members, a point of order is principally raised when there is a breach of procedure by another hon. Member. It cannot, and should not be used to debate or require or request another hon. Member to speak in a particular way. Further, a point of order cannot be raised because an hon. Minister has not answered a question to the satisfaction of the questioner. I think I need to repeat this one: A point of order cannot be raised because an hon. Minister has not answered a question to the satisfaction of the questioner.

Hon. Members, in order to successfully raise a point of order, it is imperative to observe the following steps:

ask yourself “which rule or law on privilege has been breached by another Member?”;
once the rule or law on privilege allegedly breached has been identified, you need to indicate electronically that you would like to raise a point of order;
when the Hon. Speaker recognises you, raise the point of order by first citing the Standing Order or law that has allegedly been breached; and
then state what the breach is and end with “Madam/Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.”

Hon. Members, in citing the rule, it is not sufficient to simply state, for example, Standing Order No. 65. An hon. Member must state a specific paragraph of Standing Order No. 65 that has allegedly been breached. For instance, if Standing Order No. 65(1)(a) is being relied on, then a point of order should be raised in the following manner:

“Madam/Mr Speaker, Standing Order No. 65(1)(a) requires that a Member confines his or her debate to the subject under discussion: Is then the hon. Member on the Floor in order to embark on a cross-country debate?

Madam/Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.”

Hon. Members should not debate their point of order before or after raising it. A point of order raised must be precise or to the point.

Matters of Urgent Public Importance (Standing Order No. 134)

Hon. Members, the essence of a matter of urgent public importance is to bring to the attention of the House and the Executive a widespread event in the country. The event should not be peculiar to only a small section of the country. The subject should not only be clothed with a national character but also capable of being debated. Its importance should be such that if the Executive does not intervene immediately, a catastrophe would befall the nation.

For example, floods, droughts, fall armyworms and invasion of locusts are some of the events or incidences contemplated by Standing Order No. 134 as matters of urgent public importance because they usually affect a large section of society. An outbreak of a disease in a constituency, for example, though urgent and important, cannot be raised as a matter of urgent public importance because it is not debatable and also not widespread. The appropriate tool to employ under such circumstances is a Question of Urgent Nature under Standing Order No. 76.

Hon. Members, in raising matters under Standing Order No. 134, be reminded of the following steps:

at the appropriate time, indicate electronically that you intend to raise a matter of urgent public importance;
the presiding officer will recognise and call you to raise the matter;
start your statement with the phrase “Madam/Mr Speaker, the matter I wish to raise is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President or the hon. Minister of …” You may state the hon. Minister of a particular ministry or province, for example; and
state the matter concisely and end by saying “Madam/Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance.” Do not debate the matter.

Hon. Members, henceforth, the presiding officers will strictly enforce the rules regulating points of order and matters of urgent public importance to ensure proper and smooth transaction of business in the House.

I thank you.

______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I hope you have understood ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … the circumstances that would lead to your raising those matters.

The hon. Member for Petauke Central is next.

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON MR MWIIMBU, HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON A PROTEST MATCH CONDUCTED ON 4^TH MARCH, 2023

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the chance, on behalf of the good people of Petauke Central, to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and all of us here.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, over the weekend, there was a group which marched on the Great East Road. As I drove past it, I had my nephews in the car. Then my nephew asked me, “What about this song?” I will use English now. “What is this cat, cat, cat they are singing?” Then I said, “No, no, no, it is just a cat. That which” –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you may resume your seat. Next is the hon. Member for Katombola.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda interjected.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Mr Speaker –

Mr J. E. Banda: Let me finish.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think I guided you on that one.

Hon. PF. Members: No!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You do not need to debate your points of order. Next.

Hon. PF Members interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Katombola may continue.

Hon. PF. Members: No!

Interruptions

Mr Andeleki: I thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Katombola Constituency –

Mr J. E. Banda: This is unacceptable.

Hon. Government Members: Order, iwe!

Mr J. E. Banda: What about my people?

Hon. PF Members interjected.

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, could you make a ruling as to whether the conduct of hon. Members is in order?

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think let us –

Mr B. Mpundu: Pwisha fye! You continue!

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, leave the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: Why am I leaving the House? Why?

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Serjeant-at-Arms, ensure that he leaves the House.

Mr B. Mpundu was escorted out of the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. PF Members left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Serjeant-at-Arms, ensure that the door is closed we continue with business.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Katombola may continue.

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me, on behalf of the people of Katombola Constituency, to raise a matter of urgent public importance, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 134.

Mr Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, and is in relation to the occurrence that greeted this country on 4^th March, 2023, at the Lusaka Show Grounds.

Mr Speaker, it is in the public domain that a society called Sistah Sistah Foundation Zambia organised a demonstration and march-past on that day through a police permit that it was granted by the Zambia Police Service. As a result of the proceedings of that day, there was an indication of support for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) rights. This has put this Government in issue. Some people are asking whether this Government supports gay rights.

Mr Speaker, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 says in the preamble that Zambia is and shall forever remain a Christian Nation. On that basis, the matter of urgent public importance is being directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to give the position of the Government on the happenings of 4^th March, 2023.

Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance on that point.

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON MR KAPALA, HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON ELECTRICITY CONNECTION FEES

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker:

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me, on behalf of the good people of Nakonde, a chance to raise this matter of urgent public importance directed at the hon. Minister of Energy. I raise this matter pursuant to Standing Order 134.

Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I thank ZESCO Limited for the efforts it has been making to ensure that –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

You did not cite the paragraph. You cited Standing Order 65, but not the paragraph. Is it the first paragraph?

Mr Simumba: It is Standing Order 134, Mr Speaker.

Maybe, there is a problem with the microphones. I cited Standing Order 134.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Standing Order 134(a) or (b)?

Mr Simumba: Standing Order 134(a).

Can I continue?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I thank ZESCO Limited for the efforts it is making to ensure that each and every person in rural areas is connected to electricity.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, do not debate your point. Be precise and state what you want.

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, it is about the electricity connection fee for people in rural areas. People living in rural areas are failing to meet the connection fee. At first, the connection fee was about K769, but now, it is about K4,850. I am asking the hon. Minister to revisit this fee so that people in rural areas countrywide can benefit. People in Nakonde, for example, are unable to connect electricity to their buildings because they are unable to make this fee. It is too high.

I seek your guidance on this matter, Mr Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, I rise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 34.

Mr Speaker, there is a lot of anxiety amongst the people of Zambia due to the many issues that are happening in the country. The latest happening is about –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

You are rising on Standing Order No. 34. Which paragraph are you on?

Mr Twasa: It is Standing Order No. 134 (a).

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Alright!

Mr Twasa: Mr Speaker, this matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Agriculture. The latest issue that is causing a lot of anxiety amongst the people is the news that is spreading in both Kenya and Zambia.

Sir, it has been reported that the Zambian Government has given huge chunks of land to Kenyans to do farming. This is where Kenyans will be able to grow maize and export it to Kenya. This has caused a lot of anxiety amongst the Zambians and they are wondering why our New Dawn Government is giving land to foreigners when they are scrambling for land. The people of Zambia would like the hon. Minister of Agriculture to clarify this matter so that they know the exact position of the Government.

I seek your guidance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Wamunyima: Mr Speaker, I rise on matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134(a) and it is directed at the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Mr Speaker, today, there is a story in the News Diggers, which reads:

“Savenda sends 70 per cent of workers on forced leave.”

Mr Speaker, the summary of the story is that 800 people have been affected by the eminent job losses. Subsequently, the dependence ratio is one employed person to ten dependants. Therefore, 8,000 Zambian families stand at risk of these eminent job losses.

Sir, my question or matter of urgent public importance to the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House is: What is the position of the Government with regard to investigations on Zambian-owned companies and individuals based on allegations that have not yet ended up into a conviction in court but are resulting in eminent job losses? What is the position of the Government on such matters, considering that Article 18 (2) of the Constitution of Zambia says that there is presumption of innocence?

I seek your guidance, Mr Speaker.

Mr First Deputy Speaker: I will start with the hon. Member for Katombola.

Mr Kapyanga indicated his intention to speak.

Mr First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika Central, I called your name, but I do not know where you were.

Hon. UPND Members: He had gone out.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 134(a) and 135(c). Standing Order No. 135 (c) says,

“Admissibility of a Matter of Urgent Public Importance,

a matter shall be considered urgent and of public importance if -

Mr Speaker, on Sunday evening, a civic leader from Shiwang’andu was attacked by suspected cadres on mere suspicion that he was carrying Patriotic Front (PF) regalia. I am referring to the Council Chairperson, Mr Speaker, who was beaten, and his mobile phones and money amounting to K35,000, were stolen from him. This incident is just one of those that we have witnessed lately. The other day, another incident happened in Mkushi where the First Family was involved in a petty issue that was handled in a very ugly manner.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, this is where cadres dragged the First Family in a very bad way. The other time, we saw the same cadres in Kasama attacking the police. Most recently, it was the Council Chairperson who was attacked. This matter of urgent pubic importance is therefore, directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. My concern is that despite the fact that His Excellency the President spoke against political thuggery and hooliganism, we are still seeing these ugly faces more especially, in the most recent incident in Shiwang’andu where the Council Chairperson was beaten and later on, handed over to the police.

I seek your guidance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The matter raised by the hon. Member for Katombola about lesbians and gays has been in public domain for some time. On several times, on different fora, the Government has made its position very clear. As we are aware, we have a Government that is governed by laws. To that effect, the Government Spokesperson made the position known. She mentioned the intention of the Government to see to it that all the citizens are law-abiding. However, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has indicated that he would like to shed more light as regards to the same issue. So, at this juncture, I will allow the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and internal Security to shed more light on the matter.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to respond to respond to the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola, who has raised an urgent question of public nature pursuant to Standing Order No. 134, on the match past by Sistah Sistah Foundation, a non-governmental organisation (NGO), which occurred on 4^th March, 2023, between 0900 hours and 1400 hours.

Mr Speaker, the brief facts that are on record are that on 22^nd February, 2023, Sistah Sistah Foundation notified the Zambia Police Service, Lusaka Division, that they would like to have a match past on 4^th March, 2023, at the Rugby Club in the Show Grounds. The organisation indicated that they wanted to raise awareness on women’s rights, fights, sexual abuse and gender- based violence (GBV). The organisation was given a go ahead as it met the requirements of the Public Order Act. The matchers had in their possession banners reading, ‘Stop Gender Based Violence.’

Mr Speaker, the event went well until when the matchers approached the showgrounds, then the slogan changed. Some matchers were heard saying “my body, my right”. This, however, was contrary to the notification given to the Zambia Police Service as homosexuality is illegal in Zambia by virtue of Sections 155 and 157 of the Penal Code Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia. These aforesaid clauses in our Penal Code criminalises same sex conduct between consenting adults. Arising from the behaviour exhibited by the matchers on the material day, the Zambia Police Service instituted investigations.

Mr Speaker, it is important to note that the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has publicly made his position known that he will not and does not support gayism in all its forms. The President is a Christian who conforms to all values of Christianity. In addition, the United Party for National Development (UPND) does not support gayism. It is, therefore, preposterous, mischievous and unsavory for any individual in this country to suggest that the President of the Republic of Zambia and the UPND condones gayism in this country. The Zambia Police Service has so far arrested four suspects for giving false information to a public officer and they will soon appear in court. The matter is actively under investigations and the nation will be updated.

Mr Speaker, as you are aware, in 2022, I launched the review of the Public Order Act. The process involved wide consultations and a draft bill has been finalised, and it will soon be presented to Parliament. It is my prayer that hon. Members of Parliament will support the Bill. The Bill seeks to address most of the deficiencies in the current Public Order Act as it has been observed.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I warn members of the public to not flout the law deliberately by taking advantage of the prevailing environment that allows for freedom of expression and assembly. I also wish to mention that we are aware that some of those who are advocating for these rights, are being persuaded by certain individuals who are known, to ensure and make the public lose faith in the UPND, and we know that those who are doing that have been conniving and cohabiting with those who believe in gayism.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: He is one of them.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I need your protection. Some hon. Members on your right are accusing me of things I do not believe in.

Mr Speaker, my follow-up question is based on the last part of the statement where the hon. Minister indicated that he is aware that some individuals are actually in collusion with the law breakers. According to our laws, and I know the hon. Minister is a lawyer, if someone is in collusion with a law breaker, he is as good as a law breaker. Who are those people? Gayism has become so open. What we witnessed one evening we went to Bauleni, which is in the hon. Minister of Justice’s constituency, has never happened in this country. What action is the hon. Minister taking to ensure that those who not only collude but also promote unnatural and unZambian acts, unAfrican acts actually, are brought to book through our court system?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am alarmed to hear that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South was one of the spectators of people engaging in gayism, and he knows that watching and abetting a crime in this country is a crime. He is aware that his conduct is an offence. He was watching members of the public engaging in sexual acts in Bauleni, as he has confessed here, and he was happy and he applauded.

Mr Mabeta: Ah! Shame.

Mr Mwiimbu: I am alarmed, Mr Speaker. I urge the hon. Member of Parliament to report the illegal act he witnessed and applauded, and has evidence for. Let him go and report it to the police.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question, and I thank him for the good response.

Mr Speaker, for the first time in history, we witnessed people propagating Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer (LGBTQ) publicly. They dressed in a certain way and were even kissing publicly. Is it a coincidence that these people are now not scared of the law or there is someone somewhere telling them to do what they want? We had the Lusaka July and other events where these people parade themselves. However, they went further to protest, demanding for their rights, which is against the national values and principles which the President talked about last week.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I expected the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika to applaud the action that has been taken by this Government, of instituting investigations and arresting the organisers of that particular march.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member said it is the first time that such acts are happening. It is public knowledge that under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, the Lusaka July event was very prominent. Members of the PF complained about what was happening during those festivals, but they did not even do anything because they condoned them. Some of those who were present during the celebration of the Lusaka July event, which the hon. Member is condemning, are prominent Members of the PF. Some of them are even aspiring to be president of the PF Party. So, who is condoning such activities? It is them.

We have not condoned it and we have taken action because we believe in the rule of law. Not until the laws of this country change, we will not allow it because that is what the law says.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mandevu to ask a question to the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. According to the laws of Zambia, practicing homosexuality is a crime punishable by law. Section 155 and 157 of the Penal Code and Chapter 86 of the laws of Zambia criminalises such sexual conducts between consenting adults. I notice that some of the organisers of this event have been arrested. The police has an intelligence wing and when members of the public are misbehaving, this wing is able to report to say these are breaking the law. We saw, on Saturday, the gay movement being escorted by the Zambian Police (ZP) and a vehicle labeled ZP in front of the procession. When the police realised that they were chanting messages of homosexuality and displaying placards of homosexuality, which is not allowed by the constitution, why did they not move in to arrest the law breakers?

I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I noted, Mr. Speaker, that my young brother, the hon. Member for Mandevu walked out in protest against your ruling. He was not in the house when I was explaining as to what transpired on Saturday. I did mention that the initial procession was in accordance with the notice the organisers had given to the police to demonstrate against gender violence in the country but later when the organisers reached the show grounds, they changed the modus operandi and decided to demonstrate against the purported rights of homosexuals in the country. Arising from that, police instituted investigations and has arrested four members of the organisers of the demonstration.

Mr Simumba: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I thank the hon. Minister for the Ministerial statement. Why has the hon. Minister created a clinic at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) which is operational? If the hon. Minister does not support gayism and if he found the clinic operational, why has he not closed it?

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I thank the hon. Member for that question. Is the Hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde not aware that the clinic he is referring to was established when the Patriotic Front (PF) was in power? Evidence is there, and if any member of the public or any Member of Parliament wants to establish the truth, they can go to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) and find out from the officers there or from the leaders of the PF who were in government then and are here. They will tell you that they are the ones who created the clinic. Don’t blame us. They should be the ones to tell us why they created it. They believed in gayism and wanted to protect their own during that time. They should not bring up things that they know were created themselves.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Mr Speaker, our colleagues, the police officers, were there at the time of the protest. Have the police officers who were there also been arrested for allowing the procession to continue after they discovered that the intention had changed?

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I did indicate that the police did not allow the gay procession. The procession, initially, was against gender-based violence in the country. That was the initial intention but when the organisers reached the show grounds, they changed the agenda and they started protesting against the government’s failure to protect gay persons in the country. Arising from that, the police initiated investigations and because what transpired, that was not supported by the police, we arrested four organisers of the procession. There was no support on the part of Zambia Police.

Mr Speaker: I will allow an hon. Independent Member to ask a question because this is as good as a ministerial statement.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Thank you very much Mr Speaker and I thank the Hon. Minister for the statement. What measures is the Government taking to counter the negative happenings and what lessons has the ministry learnt from the event which changed midway through?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as Members of Parliament and parents in the house and those outside the house, all of us must realise that those who were demonstrating are our children. They are come from our homes. Some of those children who were demonstrating on that day are related to some of us. It is, therefore, incumbent upon us as leaders and parents, that if we firmly believe that we should not support gayism in this country, to ensure that our children do not fall prey to the alien attitudes, which are now prevailing in the country.

Mr Speaker, we, as the UPND Government, working together with other stakeholders, shall continue educating members of the public pertaining to the vices that are inimical to the interest of the country. We appeal to you, the church, and the traditional leaders to continue sensitising members of the public. The responsibility is on all of us to ensure that our children do not fall prey to these vices.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, indeed, the last discourse by the hon. Minister is what is needed at this point in time. I do not think a blame game will be a solution to this challenge. I want to make a follow-up on the two questions raised by hon. Member for Mandevu and the hon. Member for Chipili. The whole essence of members of the public notifying the police about a procession is to give details. We hear the hon. Minister when he says that the explanation coming from the police is that the conveners of that procession decided to change their agenda as they were implementing the procession. Now, when the Police Service consents to a procession, it has a responsibility to monitor such processions and ensure that the convenors of any particular public procession are sticking to what they have notified the police on. So, it is important that the hon. Minister takes people to task. If there were police officers who were monitoring that event, at the point that the convenors changed course, action should have been taken. That is how police work should be. Surprisingly, as other hon. Members are saying, they could see the presence of police. The insults that were coming from those who were chanting were loud and clear. They were mentioning private parts and saying, “they are ours, we can do what we wish”. Any trained police officer should, at that point, have picked that the procession was an illegal one. If investigations point to a lapse on the part of the police, are we expecting action to be taken on those that should have responsibly monitored that procession?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, if ever there was a lapse, appropriate action will be taken. However, I still insist that there was no lapse on the part of the police. You may have noticed that the chanting started when they had reached the showgrounds. They went into the showgrounds and came to the roadside with placards now propagating gayism in the country. The police officers, at that time, were powerless because there were only three of them. It would not have been possible for the officers at that time to take appropriate action.

As you may be aware, Mr Speaker, we believe in the rule of law. When members of the public do such things, you institute investigations and take appropriate action. That is exactly what we have done. We will take appropriate action against anyone, including officers, if they are found wanting pertaining to this particular procession.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to ask a question. We understand that …

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hmmm!

Mr Tayengwa: …indeed, we need to uphold the Christian values that we have as a Christian nation. Nevertheless –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to raise a point of order. My point of order is premised on Standing Order No. 202, on the privileges of Members in this House. The Standing Order reads and I quote:

“202 Privileges of Members

Parliamentary privilege refers to certain rights, powers and immunities enjoyed by the House and its committees collectively and by the members individually and without which the House cannot discharge its functions effectively and efficiently.
The House and members shall enjoy the privileges and immunities prescribed under the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act.
A member who abuses the privileges commits an offence of 'breach of privilege' and may be punished by the House.
A member who alleges that his or her privilege is being, or has been, denied in the House may, as soon as the alleged denial occurs, raise a Point of Order.
A member who alleges that his or her privilege is being, or has been, denied either outside the House or long after the alleged denial occurred, may file a written complaint with the office of the Speaker specifying the allegation.”

Mr Speaker, this point of order is premised on Standing Order 202 (4).

Hon. UPND Member interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you were not precise to indicate which Standing Order has been breached. You have to be precise and to the point.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, it is Standing Order No. 202(4), where my privilege in this House has been denied.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: The privilege to speak.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member!

You did not indicate who denied you that privilege.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, maybe, let me repeat what I said by reading the Standing Order I quoted. Standing Order No. 202 (4) says:

“202. Privileges of Members

(4) A member who alleges that his or her privilege is being, or has been, –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you did not indicate who has denied you that privilege.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, the House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Which House?

Mr J. E. Banda: This august House, Mr Speaker. That is why Standing Order No.202(4) says:

A member who alleges that his or her privilege is being, or has been, denied in the House may, as soon as the alleged denial occurs, raise a point of order.”

Mr Speaker, I am in the House. My privilege has been denied in this House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, if I remember very well, it is me who ruled you out of order due to the manner you were presenting matters of urge public importance after guiding you. Earlier, I guided you that you should not debate but you went on debating. That, in itself, is contravening the Standing Orders. Henceforth, let us adhere to what is on the Table. We operate with rules. Apparently, this House does not allow a Member to challenge the ruling of the presiding officer.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, I am not challenging the ruling, but citing –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member!

Resume your seat. We must make progress. The hon. Member for Kabwata may continue.

Mr Tayengwa: Mr Speaker, like I was saying, Christian values ought to be respected, maintained and upheld in this nation. Hon. Minister, if you look at the trend from, I think, 2018 or 2019, you will recall that we had cadres who invaded Lusaka Central Police and beat up the police. Then we have this organisation called Sistah Sistah Foundation which was registered in 2018. We are faced with a situation where police officers are being given false information. What measures is the ministry putting in place to ensure that organisations behind events such as the Lusaka July and the same Sistah Sistah Foundation, do not give police officers wrong information?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as I indicated earlier, this is a Government of laws. If anyone breaches the law, that will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken against those who have breached the laws of this country. I cannot make a general statement pertaining to general conduct. I would not want to do that. Each case is treated on its own merits.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the actions he has taken to try and clean up the debt that was left behind and now causing a disturbance in his line of operations.

Mr Speaker, has the hon. Minister proved beyond any reasonable doubt that these people mean to disturb security and break the laws of the land? Is it possible that the hon. Minister can deregister Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) that are hell-bent on disturbing our peace?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I will not speak on behalf of the Registrar of Societies or Registrar of Non-Governmental Organisations in this country.

Mr Speaker, I have no doubt in my mind that if a Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) or society has breached rules or regulations, it will be asked to exculpate itself. If it fails to exculpate itself, appropriate action will be taken by the responsible officers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I think the problem we are discussing seems to be a long term one and has roots in terms of behaviour and not outcome or the way it shows itself to the public. The hon. Minister indicated that this problem has been there for some time. I think that for some time, this problem could have been hiding.

Mr Speaker, we will have Parliaments come and go. I do not know what the Government is thinking. We know that this problem is with us, especially the practice of homosexuality, which is forbidden by law.

Mr Speaker, what interventions are we putting in place, as the Government, to deal with the root instead of mopping the water that is spilling from a troubled tap? We will talk about Cap. 119 and push it to the Society’s Act and a lot more things, but there is a problem in the House. What we are saying is that homosexuality practices are increasing every day, meaning that they have reached a social acceptance level where everyone now sees it as normal. In countries where same sex marriages have been given leeway, that is how it started. Now, Zambia is almost reaching the social acceptance level where we even have flags and anyone can move with a flag and wear a tee-shirt. Sometime back, of course, people would say, “What is this?” However, now, we have reached a social acceptance level. So, what are the inventions the Government is putting in place so that we can curb this issue in the bud instead of mopping the linking water and scratching the surface and leaving the problem?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I want to state that homosexually has not reached acceptable levels. It has not. Even the occurrence of Saturday, 4^th March, 2023, is one of the very rare occasions that members of that particular community attempted to demonstrate. It is a very rare occasion and, therefore, the demonstrators had to disguise themselves as members of the public who were demonstrating against gender-based violence. Had it been acceptable, they would not have disguised themselves.

Mr Speaker, further, I am not an expert in behavioural change for me to indulge in looking at that issue and proposing ways of how to deal with it. There are experts in the country who will be able to deal with that matter.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the matter raised by the hon. Member for Kasenengwa is quite important, but does not qualify as a matter of urgent public importance. However, he is encouraged to submit an oral question to the Office of the Clerk.

The matter raised by the hon. Member for Mpika is not admissible under Article 134 as issues of attacks on citizens are matters that should be reported to the police for investigations to commence. If prosecution is possible, it will be done.

The hon. Member for Nalolo asked about the position of the Government on the investigations regarding the Savenda Group of Companies, which is on the verge of closing. This issue is inadmissible because the matter is already in the public domain through the print and electronic media.

The last matter was raised by the hon. Member for Mpika and is not admissible under Article 134 as it is already being dealt with. This one, I already indicated.

The hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde raised the matter of urgent public importance asking what measures are being put in place as regards the electricity connection fee he said was unaffordable. The matter is inadmissible. It is not urgent and is already in the public domain. I think, severally, it has come on the Floor. However, I request the hon. Minister of Energy to come up with a ministerial statement to address those concerns next Wednesday.

Thank you.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

UPGRADING TO DUAL CARRIAGEWAY OF THE LUSAKA/NDOLA ROAD, INCLUDING REHABILITATION OF THE LUANSHYA/FISENGE/MASANGANO ROAD USING PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 2^nd March, 2023, the Honourable Madam Speaker directed that I issue a ministerial statement on the agreement signed on Tuesday, 28^th February, 2023, for the upgrading to dual carriageway of approximately 327 km of the Lusaka/Ndola Road, including the rehabilitation of 45km of the Luanshya/Fisenge/Masangano Road using a public-private partnership model of project procurement and financing. I am grateful for the opportunity to render the ministerial statement to inform this august House and the nation at large on the details of the project. It is my sincere hope that this statement shall help clear the air on the project, and put to rest any speculation and misinformation around the project.

Mr Speaker, it is a known fact that the demand for quality road infrastructure in Zambia remains high, while the resource envelope is not adequate to bridge the finance gap. To cover the gap, the New Dawn Government has decided to use the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) model of financing on this project. Such partnerships are anticipated to generate jobs as well spur social and economic growth.

Further, this finance model will guarantee infrastructure development and service delivery using private capital given the challenging fiscal position of our country resulting from both the poor performance of the economy and the huge and expensive debt left by the previous regime.

Mr Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to remind the House that the Government owes outstanding arrears to contractors and consultants amounting to over K10 billion accumulated by the previous Government, and loans amounting to K5.2 billion obtained from the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA), National Savings &Credit Bank (NATSAVE) and Indo Zambia Bank (IBZ). The loan tenure for the NAPSA loan alone is fifteen years, and servicing these commitments is currently taking away 40 per cent of the road sector budget annually. Unfortunately, the current debt portfolio is not marching the current condition of the road network. One would normally expect the county to have a very good quality road network. However, despite this indebtedness, 80 per cent of the network remains in poor state.

Mr Speaker, the current state of the Lusaka/Ndola Road remains a source of concern to all well-meaning Zambians. The road is the backbone of our road network and critical in stimulating the much-needed economic growth through increased trade within the country and the region at large.

The road is currently in a deplorable state with a number of accidents and in certain cases, fatalities have been recorded. It is wealth mentioning that the latest periodic maintenance works were undertaken for the Kabwe to Kapiri Mposhi section in the year 2013, with the section between Lusaka and Kabwe receiving maintenance as far back as the year 2008.

Previous attempts to upgrade the road to a dual carriageway through a PPP model and a Contractor Facilitated Initiative (CFI) were made by the previous Government. However, both were unsuccessful.

Mr Speaker, the previous Government commenced with the procurement for the same road using the PPP approach in 2015. The procurement process was then terminated because the recommended bid price was US$1,039,469,401.70 with a concession period of twenty-five years. This was then deemed expensive and thus, the process was discontinued. Then, the Same Government invited new proposals of which the recommendation was made to award the contract at an estimated cost of US$667,800,068, with a concession period of thirty-four years.

Mr Speaker, this process was again discontinued, and the Government commenced another process that resulted in the award of the contract at an exorbitant price of US$1,245 billion using the CFI model of financing. The scope of this project was, and I quote,

“The project is for the contraction approximately 321 km of the Lusaka to Ndola dual carriageway including bypass roads in Kabwe and Kapiri Mposhi, and 45 km of the Luanshya/Fisenge/Masangano Road.”

Mr Speaker, that was the scope of that project.

Mr Speaker, firstly, the US$1.245 billion was the base figure and it was CFI funding. So, it was going to be a loan. There was going to be interest over the period and the maintenance was supposed to be done the Government.

Mr Speaker, let me come back to the concession agreement that was just signed. The PPP procurement process used to procure the current project is premised on principles of competition transparence, fairness, equity and cost effectiveness. Therefore, allow me to highlight the procurement process that was adopted in this transaction. The process consisted of the following stages:

project concept preparation stage;
the call for request for expression of interest;
the issuance of request proposals;
evaluation; and
negotiations.

Mr Speaker, the Road Development Agency (RDA) submitted the project concept note for the project in line with the Public-Private Partnership Act, No.14 of 2009 to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for review, consideration and approval in 2021. Subsequently, authority was granted for the RDA to proceed with the procurement of the project through the solicited approach. Thereafter, the call for expression of interest was published in the print media on 16^th February, 2022. Seven proposals were received on 11^th March, 2022. The proposals received were evaluated from 11^th March, 2021 to 21^st March, 2022, and the two the firms were responsive to the stipulated evaluation criteria and were thus shortlisted. The films shortlisted were as follows:

Macro Ocean Investments Consortium, represented by AVIC international Project Engineering Company; Zhenjiang Communications Construction Group Limited and China Railway Seventh Group Limited; and
Yamene, represented by Velos Enterprises Limited, Graduare Property Development Limited, Yamene Financial Services Limited and Hillary Construction Limited.

Mr Speaker; in line with the Public-Private Partnership Act, the request for proposals were issued to the shortlisted firms on 5^th May, 2022, and the proposals were received on 1^st July, 2022. The Director and Chief Executive Officer of the RDA, using powers vested in him by the Procurement Public-Private Partnership Act, constituted an evaluation committee consisting of able Government and private individuals to carry out the bid evaluations.

Subsequently, on 24^th July, 2022, the Public-Private Partnership Council (PPPC) considered the request for approval of the due diligence exercise that involved visiting the bidders’ past project sites both local and outside the country, and the bid evaluation reports for the current project.

Mr Speaker, Messrs Macro Ocean Investment Consortium were then conferred with the preferred bidder status in line with the Public-Private Partnership Act No 14 of 2009 as amended. Thereafter, the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning together with the Road Development Agency (RDA) set up an inter-sectoral Government negotiation team to conduct negotiations. The negotiations commenced in August, 2022, and were concluded in February, 2023. Following negotiations in line with the provisions of the Public Private Partnership Act No. 40 of 2009, and having established the technical, financial and legal capacity of the preferred bidder, the Government awarded the concession agreement to Messrs. Macro Oceans Investment Consortium for the upgrading to dual carriageway, of approximately 327 km of the Lusaka/Ndola Road, including the rehabilitation of 45 km of the Luanshya/Fisenge/Masangano Road using a public-private partnership (PPP) model.

Mr Speaker, allow me to highlight salient features of the project. The scope of works include design, engineering, financing, procurement, construction, completion, operation and the maintenance of the project infrastructure as follows:

construction of the 327 km dual carriageway;
construction of Kabwe and Kapiri Mposhi bypasses;
rehabilitation of 45 km of the Masangano/ Fisenge/Luanshya Road;
construction of two new toll plazas;
construction of two weigh bridges; and
expansion and improvement of existing bridges along the entire route.

Mr Speaker, the concession period will be twenty-five years split as follows:

three years for construction; and
and twenty-two years for operations and maintenance. The operations and maintenance will be at no cost to the Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, allow me to elaborate on the factors that led us to arrive at the concession period of twenty-five years. The twenty-five years concession period was arrived at after looking at the level of investment and payback period. We also took into account what the public can afford in terms of toll charges, and the agreed revenue sharing mechanism between the Government and the concessionaire.

Mr Speaker, we can shorten the concession period, but that will result in us increasing the toll fees. This would in all probability make the toll fees unaffordable to the average Zambian and increase the cost of doing business. We can also cut in half the investment, so as to keep the service at a reasonable cost. This, however, would compromise the quality of the road and it would not last twenty-five years. To protect the interest of the Zambian people, the New Dawn Government has put emphasis on delivering projects and services at the right price, quality and within time as directed by our President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

Mr Speaker, in view of our resolve to deliver projects transparently, at the right price, quality and in a timely manner, the concession agreement was signed based on the fundamental features of the legal framework governing public-private partnerships (PPPs) in infrastructure development, namely affordability to the public and value for money to the Government.

Mr Speaker, allow me to highlight some of the concession periods in PPPs contracts that previous Governments signed. I say this because when I talked about the twenty-five-year tenure for this particular concession, I heard some murmurs. Let me highlight, for the benefit of the House, previous concessions signed by previous Governments in this country. Firstly, the Luburma Market Concession Agreement signed during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government in 2001 was sixty-five years.

Hon UPND Members: Hey, mmh!

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, the Chingola to Solwezi PPP Concession Agreement signed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government with Bert Motors Limited in 2021 is for thirty years …

Hon. UPND Members: Ah! Oh no!

Eng. Milupi: …, yet the project is for turning an already rehabilitated road to a dual carriageway. The Kasomeno/Mwenda Road Project signed by the PF Government with GED Africa Limited Projects in 2016 is for twenty-five years. The Resettlement Infrastructure Investment and Enterprise Support (ARIISE) signed by the PF Government with Nkhulu Consortium Limited on 10^th August, 2021, has a concession period of twenty-five years.

Mr Speaker, the involvement of the private sector in the development of public infrastructure using PPPs has been employed worldwide, including here in Africa. Our fact-finding mission has revealed that PPPs in Sub Saharan Africa are still in a developmental phase although there are indications that their use is increasing.

Mr Speaker, some of the successful concessions implemented in Africa include:

the N4 Toll Road between Johannesburg and Maputo with thirty years concession period;
the N3 Toll Road between Durban and Johannesburg with thirty years concession period;
the Kampala to Jinja Expressway Phase 1 in Uganda with thirty years concession period;
the Nairobi Expressway with thirty years concession period.

Mr Speaker, the quality of these roads is evidently good with acceptable levels of service. The New Dawn Government has adopted this approach to deliver the much-needed regional network for both local and international traffic to match up with international standards considering the current fiscal position. The use of the PPP model guarantees quality as the concessionaire is also keen to produce a quality road as failure to do so by implementing the project below approved specifications will result in premature failure of the road, resulting in costly maintenance and early rehabilitation at the cost of the concessionaire.

Mr Speaker, the concession period of twenty-five years was methodically analysed taking into account affordability by the public and also a quality road at the right price delivered on time. This has resulted in a win-win concession agreement.

Mr Speaker, as promised, the New Dawn Administration is undertaking road infrastructure projects at the right price, specified quality, and timely delivery. Again, this is on the understanding that all the risks associated with PPP funding mechanisms are to be borne by the concessionaire with no assistance, whatsoever, and at no cost and risk to the Government of the Republic of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the cost of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway Project is US$649,976,167. This is broken down as follows:

US$577,383,758 construction cost;
US$1 million working capital;
US$1,849,500 finance costs; and
US$69,742,909 interest during the construction period.

Mr Speaker, I must restate the point that the Government is not funding the project, nor is there a requirement for a sovereign guarantee. Further, the Government shall not be responsible for any maintenance of the road for the twenty-two years of the concession operating period.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, Hear!

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I wish to remind the House, and the country at large, that the time for exorbitant tender pricing is long gone. This will not happen again in Zambia due to the New Dawn Government’s resolve to procure projects at the right price.

Madam Speaker, since the project will be financed using the public-private partnership (PPP) model, the concessionaire is free to engage and propose would-be financiers. It is anticipated that substantial funding for the project will be financed through a combination of debt and equity which will be made available by lenders and shareholders. The Lusaka-Ndola Dual Carriageway Project was properly conceived with consideration of how the financiers would make returns on their investments.

Mr Speaker, we have heard from individuals who are against progress stating that this is not a PPP project but a raiding and plunder of public pension funds using pension funds as intermediaries for the plunder.

Mr Speaker, if we allow these PPPs to be funded by foreign capital, the profits arising out of the project will go out. A hundred percent of the profits will go out! Let me reiterate this point. The New Dawn Government wants Zambian involvement in the running of the country’s economic affairs. Zambians must get used to investing in private enterprises with higher returns. Let me remind the House that many years ago, a number of people, over 4,000 people and entities invested in the Copperbelt Energy Corporation, including the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). Making investments with high returns is key for pension schemes like NAPSA because not only does part of the profit remain in Zambia, but contributes to growth of the pension scheme, thus securing the lives of current and future pensioners.

Mr Speaker, pension schemes get money from active members who are actively working. They invest that money and make a return so that they can look after the pensioners who are no longer working. We believe that in this project, the return on this investment in dollar terms is nine per cent. This I believe is very good. I am sure NAPSA has evaluated this compared to other investment portfolios. Besides that, NAPSA is not the only one likely to be approached for possible investment in the project. They are just part of the possible funders. The funding mechanisms for the project are entirely the responsibility of the concessionaire and the Government will not provide any assistance or sovereign guarantee. The task of attaining financial close is the responsibility of the concessionaire and he is free to approach any interested investors within and outside Zambia with the appetite to invest in the project.

Mr Speaker, allow me to highlight how the toll revenue collection will be executed in this PPP concession agreement. The tolls Act, No. 14 of 2011, is the principal act providing for the operation of toll roads, the charging and collection of tolls and provides for private sector participation in the tolling of roads. Under Section 4 of the Tolls Act, the RDA is mandated with the following functions:

regulate the operation and maintenance of toll roads;
monitor compliance of concessionaires/private entities with the terms and conditions of concession agreements signed; and
advise the minister of infrastructure, housing and urban development on the design, construction, safety, regulation, operation and maintenance of toll roads.

In addition to the above, Section 6 of the Tolls Act provides as follows:

the agency may, on such terms and conditions as it may determine, appoint any suitable person as a toll collector for purposes of this Act and to perform such other functions as the agency may specify; and
a toll collector shall remit to the agency any toll collected in such manner as the minister may prescribe.

Mr Speaker, the above provisions clearly give the Road Development Agency tolling functions and further allow for the appointment of various persons, at law, as toll collectors. In the past those appointed have included the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA), Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA). However, with the coming of PPP projects, private entities or concessionaires will be appointed as toll collectors on prescribed toll roads.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Minister wind up because you have almost taken the entire 30 minutes that is allocated to you.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, well, this is on a very important subject. I am just remaining with a few pages. In line with Part 3, Section 21, of the Public Finance Management Act No 1 of 2018 and the concession agreement provisions, the concessionaire shall deposit all toll fees and other revenue collected from facilities on the project highway into an Escrow Account.

Mr Speaker, to enhance transparency, under the concession agreement, the Government shall have the right to audit these accounts. It is for this reason that in this concession agreement, the Government and concessionaire have agreed to a revenue share mechanism based on gross revenue. The Government envisions accruing USD$1,172,157,616.00 in monetary benefits from the project over the concession period, broken down as follows:

revenue share USD$ 432,064,717.00;
income/corporation tax USD$ 660,344,643.00; and
withholding tax on dividends USD$ 79,748,256.00.00.

Mr Speaker, the construction of two additional toll plazas will create employment opportunities for more toll collectors. This brings me to the last fundamental questions: What will the people benefit? The answer lies in the uniqueness of the road section. The section connects the continent, region and domestic corridors to the world. Once done, I have no doubt citizens and the region’s social and economic status shall be uplifted.

Mr Speaker, the use of the PPP model of financing on this project and other high-volume roads, both current and potential, that make them attractive to the private sector means Government can then direct the limited resources at its disposal to many other roads throughout our country, especially in rural areas that would not normally attract private investment that includes roads in all constituencies.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I will use my discretion and add 20 minutes.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Mr Speaker, I remember very well that watching Parliament Television in the past was so interesting. We would hear those who appeared to be on the left calling companies such as AVIC International as conduits of corruption.

Mr Speaker, the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way is a crime scene in the sense that, a concessionaire will get money from the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and Worker Compensation Fund and run this road for twenty –five years, reaping money from it.

Mr Speaker, why not award the concession to NAPSA and other –

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: Most of you are just certificate holders in milk processing, but you want to laugh at us. Why did they not award the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) the concession…

Rev. Katuta balekeni baseke, teci tundu chobe.

Mr Kapyanga: … to run the road and hire AVIC International Limited and China Railway Construction Corporation Limited as contractors? Why would these foreign companies use our money to construct he road and reap the money for themselves? That is where we have a problem as a nation. That is why we are calling it a crime scene, it is a crime scene.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, they can question as much as they want, but this road is a scandal. Our colleagues have privatised the Ndola/Lusaka Dual Carriageway. We need a commission of inquiry when we come back in 2026.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member has debated his question. Next is the hon. Member for Chama North. Does the hon. Minister want to respond?

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I think we need to respond to that because of the various inaccurate statements made by the Member for Mpika, Hon. Kapyanga. He says that NAPSA should carry out the project. First of all, the funding arrangement does not say that 100 per cent of these funds are coming from NAPSA. If NAPSA agrees, it will be part of the consortium and the funders and equity. In any case – let me state here, because that is the story coming from the hon Members on your left – I will mention a number of road projects on which NAPSA funds were used. These are:

Project Company NAPSA Financing

Ndola/Kitwe Dual Carriageway China Jiangxi Corporation K273 million

Kitwe/Chingola Dual Carriageway Sino Hydro Zambia Limited K577 million

Chingola/Solwezi Lot One China Geo K558 million

Chingola/Solwezi Lot Two Buildcon Investments K213 million

Chongola/Solwezi Lot Three China Geo K422 million

Levy Mwanawasa Toll Plaza AVIC International limited K40 million

Garneton Toll Plaza Copperfield Mining Services K40 million.

Mr Speaker, the list is endless. I can go on mentioning projects including consultancy and other services.

Mr Speaker, the total amount of money arising out of NAPSA is K5.2 billion, which I stated earlier in my statement and this is causing problems because 40 per cent of the budget for roads goes to servicing these loans from NAPSA. All this was accrued during the PF time in Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I am very grateful for allowing me to ask a follow-up question to the hon. Minister of infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. I will be brief. This conversation we are having is not for us, but for the people of Zambia. Has the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) ever supported any construction in Zambia? Yes, it has. Has it ever lent money to the concessionaire? The answer is no. The issue that the public is raising, which is for the benefit of the people out there is as follows: A concessionaire has been given a concession to undertake works. Using that agreement, a concessionaire is now looking for money. As it is doing that, it goes to NAPSA and if NAPSA or the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board has the money, why not identify the contractor to undertake the works and then NAPSA pays the contractor? Yes, it is happening, NAPSA is getting the back on those roads that the hon. Minister has mentioned. The issue is not whether NAPSA will get its money or not. A formula can be identified. So, my question to the hon. Minister is: Why should NAPSA give money to a consortium when it can fund the construction of the works?

Interruptions

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, can I be allowed to ask my question? The people out there want to hear the question so that the hon. Minister can respond and I want to be as clear as possible.

Mr Speaker, I will be very brief. Why can NAPSA and the Workers’ Compensation Fund Control Board which are public entities, provide the funding to a contractor to undertake works and when the income starts coming through the toll fees, NAPSA gets back its money, the way it is currently getting back its money on other existing roads where NAPSA provided the funding? Why get the money into a consortium when the money can go directly to a contractor purely for construction purposes and NAPSA gets back its money just like other existing agreements?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member from my former constituency, which is Kamfinsa, for that question. First of all, NAPSA is not funding, wholly, these particular projects. The question is: Why is NAPSA not construction these particular roads and getting the returns on that? If it is funding the projects partially, it means it cannot work on the road completely. It is part of the funders. Secondly, I have said it before that NAPSA is going to be approached by the concessionaire. If it is unwilling to participate in that, there is no problem there. It is not providing the funds wholly. The hon. Member makes us believe that NAPSA is giving money to these concessionaires. It is an investment. As I indicated earlier on, there is a 9 per cent return on dollars, which those who go to the banks will find very attractive, especially when the base rate is around 1 per cent in the world. So, if we look at the investment portfolios of NAPSA, we see that it has invested a lot in real estate. We can all examine what is happening to the real estate. Most of us here have houses and we were able to get so much. Now, we have to get much less. So, the return on some of these things may not be as attractive as this particular project. It is purely an investment on which the accrual will be to the pension scheme. I think that it is a good investment but it is really up to it. Let me make it very clear, the Government did not go to NAPSA and ask it to put money into these concessions. It is a business decision between NAPSA and the concessionaire, and I think it is a good business decision.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to ask a follow-up question. I also thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that are two more toll plazas which are going to be constructed on this particular road. My simple arithmetic tells me that after every 65 km, there is going to be a toll plaza.

Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia are already overburdened with toll fees from Lusaka to the Copperbelt. More importantly, there is also the increase in fuel prices which is done on a monthly basis. Does the hon. Minister not think that adding two more toll plazas will be too much for the people of Zambia, who are going through a lot of economic difficulties?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, first of all, we must understand that there are roads being worked on which were not covered by any toll plaza. For example, on the Masangano/Fisenge Road, there is no toll plaza on that one, but there is going to be a toll plaza on the other one

Mr Speaker, on the fees chargeable, we are following the law. When he says that there is going to be a toll plaza after every 65 km after, all he has done is take the distance from Lusaka to Ndola divided by the number of toll plazas. By the way, the contract signed by the Patriotic Front (PF), which is the party he belongs to, also included two extra toll plazas. This is the contract. I have it here in my hand, and it has two extra plazas.

Mr Speaker, further, in my statement, I said our colleagues in the PF was going to use the PPP model. At the time, there were three companies that bid; Top Five, Avic International Project Engineering Company and Zhejiang Communications Construction Group Limited. The latter was judged to be the highest with a cost of US$1.3 billion, but it was they picked.

Mr Speaker, having picked it, they said that they could not proceed with the project because it was costly under a PPP model. They then decided to do it under an Engineering, Procurement and Construction (EPC) model using Government money at US$1.245 billion, which was even higher than what Zhejiang Communications Construction Group Limited was going to do under a PPP model.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Itezhi-Tezhi an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister a follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, this dual carriageway to Kitwe, it seems, has unsettled many people. The hon. Minister took over twenty-five minutes to explain so that even those people who do not want to hear this good news understand it clearly ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutinta: ... and do not go on Facebook and mislead people. Now, I am getting worried that this unprecedented development might bring mental health issues amongst some of the people who did not want to see this development.

Mr Speaker, in this regard, what steps is the hon. Minister taking to manage the people who never anticipated that this development might come to the people of Lusaka and the Copperbelt? What is he going to do to manage their mental health?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, the point that the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi has raised is actually –

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to rise on a quick point of order based on Standing Order 65.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Which paragraph?

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, the one which talks about relevance of our debates.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Which one is it?

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, this is very important because the previous speaker has insulted the Zambian people.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Zambians are just questioning to get clarity on this project. The hon. Member said that there is a need to manage the mental health of those questioning. This is not about hon. Members of Parliament. The ones who are asking are the people of Zambia. So, he is saying that Zambians who are questioning are going to develop mental health problems because of this unprecedented development.

Mr Speaker, was the previous debater, the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi, in order to question the mental capacity of the Zambian people who are questioning this project? I need your guidance. Whatever is said, the Zambian people are listening and these issues are not about us in here.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us desist from using language that may be provocative in nature to fellow hon. Members of the House.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, the point raised by the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi allows me to address some of the fundamental issues in this country. It must be understood that the election of 2021 brought a result that was unexpected by certain people. The loss was too great and we still see this. Had it been in other countries, we would have settled down to carrying out business and people would have been preparing for the next election and so on and so forth.

Mr Speaker, what is happening in Zambia is that we see the propensity to attempt to disrupt the operations of the Government, whatever we do and however good it may be. I address those on your right, the Ruling Party, that at no time should they give in to the propaganda being perpetuated by those on your left because they do not mean well. They would want us to fail. This particular project is so good. When we went to launch it, we had people representing all sections right from here, Katuba and all the way to Luanshya.

Mr Nkandu: And John Chinena.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: The people are very excited about the opportunities that this will bring. Just correcting the state of the road will bring so much excitement.

Mr Speaker, even if we corrected what our predecessors did, they would still find things to condemn. For example, if there was a need to buy fire tenders and we bought brand new fire tenders at the correct price of US$200,000 or US$250,000, they would still find things to criticise. We must understand this, but with time, which is the greatest healer, they will be healed, if not in this term, certainly in the next five terms. They will come down to earth.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Masangano/Fisenge Road will be rehabilitated. This is a very busy road because most trucks that come from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), the North-Western Province and most towns on the Copperbelt use this road. Why are we rehabilitating a road that carries so much traffic? Are we trying to keep the total construction cost low?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I am a Copperbelt person. In fact, I am a Kitwe person. So, I use that shortcut quite a lot. I think he is misunderstanding the term ‘rehabilitation’. In terms of construction, the term rehabilitation is exactly what we are going to do on the Lusaka/Ndola Road and from Masangano all the way to Luanshya. It is rehabilitation or rebuilding. It involves reaping it up as it is and reconstructing it anew. That is what rehabilitation means in terms of what we do in the ministry.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this good opportunity to ask a follow-up question on behalf the good people of Mbabala Constituency.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of Public-Private Partnership (PPP), we have heard from the statement by the hon. Minister – I thank the hon. Minister for that wonderful statement which shows that we still owe K5.5 billion. However, due to the poor quality of roads that were constructed, the Landless Corner stretch, Dundumwezi Road, Itezhi-tezhi Road and many others were washed away just by the first rains. In the last ten years, despite having all these loans, no road was constructed in Mbabala Constituency, particularly, in Simaubi and Mang’unza.

Mr Speaker, what guarantee do we have that this PPP model will result into a debt-free Zambian Government and that it will provide us with quality roads that will lead us to the Copperbelt and even help the members on your left, the Patriotic Front (PF) to successfully hold their convention in Kabwe with pangas and other machineries?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I will add five minutes more because we are running out of time.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, this is what His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema says. He compares the country to a balance sheet. If you have so much debt, which is a liability, it should also reflect on the assets that you have. The tragedy of Zambia is that it accrued so much debt and yet, there are very few assets to balance the liability. That is where we have a problem.

Mr Speaker, in terms of roads, on the road sector alone, we owe K10.4 billion and this is on approved Interim Purchase Certificates (IPCs). There is this other K5.2 billion owed to the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) for the roads that I read out. Now, the hon. Member is asking for an assurance that this particular road will be of high quality standard. I have stated that the PPP model gets buy-in from the concessionaire. It is in their interest to construct a road in good quality that will last.

Mr Speaker, the first PPP that we signed was the Chingola/Chililabombwe/Kasumbalesa Road and work has started. There is 1 km that is already done and I challenge any one to go and check. For example, on the sub-base which is so many meters, rather than just using gravel, this is stabilised. It means that there is a mixture of cement in it. The next layer is stabilised at higher percentage of cement before you reach granite stone, and therefore, bituminous surface. This will guarantee us the best quality of road because for twenty-five years – Mr Speaker, besides, the concession says, they have to maintain it at that level throughout the concession period. The two years before the end of the concession, they are to rehabilitate and restore it to what it should be so that two years later, they hand it over to the Government. That is the quickest way of ensuring that the contractor also takes interest in guaranteeing quality roads.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I want to guide the House. We should desist from using provocative statements like the one the hon. Member for Mbabala used. So, I ask you to withdraw that term, hon. Member.

Mr Munsanje: Which one, Sir?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You mentioned the word, “Panga”. Withdraw it.

Mr Munsanje: Sorry, you mean the pangas they took to the convention?

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You have to withdraw the word.

Interruptions

Mr Munsanje: I wanted to be clear with what the Speaker is saying. I withdraw the word, “pangas” and replace it with the word, “machete”, which the PF took to Kabwe for their convention.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No! Withdraw that statement. There is no need for you to even include the word, “machete.”

Mr Munsanje: I withdraw the word, “machetes.”

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for the ministerial statement. Let me commend him for that unprecedented development and project which is coming to the Copperbelt. As people of Bwana Mkubwa, we do appreciate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwambazi: However, Mr Speaker, I just want to find out something over the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way. The hon. Minister did mention that the road is costing US$649 million. From the accounting perspective, this is a concession for twenty-five years. I seek clarification on this issue. On that road, we have three toll gates namely, Katuba, Manyumbi and Kafulafuta. Each of these toll gates roughly, I might be wrong, maybe, in a month, makes K4 million plus, which is calumniating to US$84 million for twenty-five years, foregone revenue. I do not know the revenue sharing mechanism. In addition, two toll gates will be constructed by the concessionaire. To that effect, I do not know if it is in the third year or when but, we can say from twenty-two years or under. Maybe, we can say three years construction which is about US$56 million for twenty-two months. That is my calculation. If I add this, it is coming to US$140 million plus their US$649 million for construction plus financing. If I total my US$140 plus this, it gives me US$789 million. Why I want clarification is, in accounting, the foregone revenue is part of the cost. So maybe, the hon. Member should just try and clarify the two because when we add US$140 to US$649, it gives us US$789 million. I do not know the sharing proportion and I have already intimated to that. I need the hon. Minister’s clearance on this one.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa who is Chairman for the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and doing a good job to hold those who need to be held to account.

Mr Speaker, first of all, the hon. Member gave a figure of US$84 million. Someone has done a calculation that, if we were to use the existing toll arrangement on the three toll gates, at the construction cost of US$577 million, it would take thirty-two years to recover that basic cost, later on, the margin and so on. However, the quick answer to his question is, he is assuming that there is no revenue to the Government. I have already stated that the Government will receive US$1.03 billion over the concession period. Not only that, the economy will also benefit from this particular road in many ways which I do not need to elaborate. I think, the hon. Member is an accountant and he understands how the economy will grow.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ARTIFICIAL SHORTAGE OF MEALIE MEAL IN THE NORTHERN PROVINCE, MUCHINGA PROVINCE AND LUAPULA PROVINCE

184. Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

whether the Government is aware that there is an artificial shortage of mealie meal in Northern, Muchinga and Luapula Provinces, because trucks delivering mealie meal to the respective provinces are not being allowed to go beyond the Nkumbi Police Check Point on the Great North Road;
if so, why the trucks are not being allowed to cross the Check Point; and
what urgent measures are being taken to resolve the problem that has caused the escalation of mealie meal prices in the said provinces.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours

_______

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma) (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mulenga)): Mr Speaker, there is no artificial shortage of mealie meal in the Northern Province, Muchinga Province and Luapula Province caused by trucks not being allowed to go beyond the Nkumbi Police Check Point. As per practice, security wings at check points verify documentation for trucks carrying commodities such as maize and mealie meal. The Government has put in place measures to facilitate the smooth movement of maize and mealie meal across all provinces to ensure the country is food secure.

Mr Speaker, trucks are only stopped for verification of documentation and allowed to proceed once it is established that all paper work is in order.

Mr Speaker, all areas with low supply of maize and mealie meal are being supplied with maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). Millers, including the Zambia National Service milling plants, have partnered with the Government to ensure that mealie meal is available at an affordable price countrywide.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the responses coming from the Acting hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Speaker, what necessitated the question by the hon. Member was the buildup of trucks. Where trucks are just being checked, and ordinarily, in a normal situation, inland transportation of mealie-meal should not even be an issue. People can move from Lusaka to Mansa or any other destination within the country. There is no need for them to be restricted in terms of movement. It is an ordinary commodity. Why was that situation allowed?

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture should let the hon. Minister listen to the question because if he has given him enough maize, there is no need for that.

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I do not know how many hon. Ministers are there now. I want the hon. Minister to pay attention as I pose the question so that he responds.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, they should learn. That is why they have problems because they do not want to learn. We can give them a lot of wisdom in this field.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, ask the question.

Interjections

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, at least now I can see the hon. Minister is paying attention. In ordinary situation, movement of mealie meal should not be a challenge. Those trucks built up for a number of days, especially those that were carrying mealie meal, we need to verify whether they have export permits and other necessary documents at the port of entry, at the border for those going across.

Mr Speaker, why is the hon. Minister not being clear with his counterpart next to him with the movement of this grain? We have had various statements in this House that they have opened the borders and that they are allowing everybody to trade. Why are they not coming out clearly on the issue of mealie meal and grain movement? What is the position of the Government because that situation was extra ordinary?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question. In ordinary situations, yes, there is no problem at all. They would be no restrictions whatsoever. He is right. Unfortunately, this is not an ordinary year. If he looks around, literally, all the neighbours are short of mealie meal and maize. That, in itself, has necessitated the escalation of mealie meal prices in the country. Further, maize and mealie meal are a strategic commodity to the country.

Mr Speaker, given the external environment and the fact that mealie meal and maize are strategic commodities to this country, the Government has put in place measures to ensure that we minimise the number of people who would like to smuggle the commodity out of this country in order to make fast money. So, we are being just a lot more careful as we check the trucks going out of the country because verification is very important. We do not want to find ourselves in a situation where we are short of the commodity because you know the result should happen.

Mr Speaker, the Government is still open to exports, but we shall verify. As they say: “Trust, but verify.” That is exactly what we are doing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity and I thank the hon. Minister. I heard him very clearly that the duty of the officers in those check points is merely to check documentation.

Mr Speaker, what message does the hon. Minister have to the officers who are intercepting the trucks, especially those going to Nakonde? I have a situation where the people in Nakonde are complaining. The traders are complaining that officers in Chinsali and Isoka are intercepting trucks even after verifying the documents. What message does he have for those officers?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, please, they should allow the officers, as much as possible, to do what they are supposed to do. It is very important and good for the country.

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, we do not want to have a situation where this country runs short of mealie meal or maize. As far as I know, the officers are doing a damn good job.

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, they are doing a good job. So, I encourage the officers, as a message which he wants me to give them, to continue to do a good job.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: A damn good job.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask a question. Supply and demand are major factors. Transportation and the backlog at Nkumbi are creating the artificial shortage indeed. Therefore, you will find that a simple household is not accessing maize grain or mealie meal on time. I want to find out the actual position of the Government if there is a ban of maize grain and mealie meal. We need to know why there is a delay in the delivery within the country.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, let me assure the hon. Member for Kasama Central and the country at large that there is no ban whatsoever by the Government that has been imposed on exportation of mealie meal and/or maize. So, the backlog she saw at Nkumbi has been cleared. We were quick to observe that there was a backlog and quickly went in and gave instructions to ensure that they hasten the clearance. However, they should ensure that those who are cleared have the necessary papers. We have situations, sometimes, of people cheating. Unfortunately, you know how a human being is where money is concerned and given the fact that there is a shortage in the region. There is a situation where export papers are being forged and recycled. So, we would like to ensure that does not happen. Again, Ladies and gentlemen, hon. Members, this is for the good of the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Mr Speaker, I have just returned from Kawambwa and I bring greetings from the people there.

Mr Speaker, the challenge on the ground is real. Nkumbi checkpoint is not a border entry point. It is an inland checkpoint between Kapiri Mposhi and Mkushi. Transporters of mealie meal cannot access regions such as Luapula Province. I can speak for Luapula from where I have just returned. In Kawambwa, today, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has begun selling maize to people for them to have access to the most important meal. If one wants to buy maize from the agency, he/she must go with a National Registration Card (NRC). In addition, FRA is selling only one bag to a family per month. However, there are people with two families and survival is difficult –

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: Yes! Some people are polygamists. They are married to two wives, but they just get one bag because they only have one NRC.

Mr Speaker, as I drove to Lusaka, I saw many truckloads of maize from Kawambwa going to East Africa. I know the hon. Minister of Agriculture is aware of what I am talking about. The people in Luapula Province are starving. They are starving not because there is no mealie meal in Zambia. We have mealie meal, but the challenge is the deliberate congestion that has been created at an inland checkpoint at Nkumbi. What is the ministry doing to allow the free flow of maize meal into Luapula Province and Muchinga Province and check those who would want to export at the border? A roadblock can be mounted at the border crossing point. You do not mount a roadblock inland and block the three regions, which are unable to access mealie meal right as we speak. What is the ministry doing to enhance trade, bearing in mind the suffering your brothers and sisters are going through in Luapula Province?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, at the risk of repeating myself, we have given directives to such points, especially those inland, to ensure that there is a speedy clearance of trucks that have the necessary export papers. For those that are local, what we have done is to put them on monitoring. We monitor to ensure that it is local delivery and not for export. So, we have a monitoring mechanism that is put in place to ensure that local deliveries are given priority and we ensure that those who are going for export have properly verified papers with Lusaka and then they can be cleared.

Mr Speaker, as for the maize that the hon. Member saw coming from Luapula going to East Africa, yes that indicates that we are open to trade. There is no export ban. That maize was going to feed our neighbours in Tanzania, who asked through their Government to our Government, and through their President to our President. They asked that we should supply them with maize least they die of hunger. So, as a good neighbour, we did exactly that. A friend in need is a friend, indeed. That is exactly what we did.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mabeta.

Mr Kampyongo: On point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to raise this point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65(1) (b).

Mr Speaker, at least, our colleagues are now heeding our advice, although they are not being clear.

Ms Sefulo: Which advice?

Mr Kampyongo: You see. That is the problem. We are in this problem because of shouting ‘question’. When we were advising the hon. Minister of Agriculture about exporting of maize, you were busy making that same ‘question’ noise.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you rose on a point order.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, my point of order, like I have said, is pursuant to Standing Order 65.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Paragraph?

Mr Kampyongo: (1)(b), Sir.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his response, said the Government has allowed the export of maize grain and mealie meal. In the same breath, when responding to Hon. Chitotela’s question, he said the Government has to clear the papers and that the export permits are being recycled. So, what logic is in controlling internal movement of maize grain? When you are dealing with exports, the proper place to control such is at the border. Is he in order –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you are debating your point order.

Mr Kampyongo: No, I want to make my point of order very clear so that you make a very informed ruling.

Sir, the control of exports is done at the–

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You started very well.

Mr Kampyongo: Yes, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You said it is Standing Order 65 that has been breached. So, state what has been breached so that I make a ruling based on that. However, if you keep debating, you are going to conflict me. How am I going to rule when you have already debated your point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: I want to give you the premise.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No! Just state–

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead the nation through this august House by giving conflicting statements? We all know the procedures around the movement of mealie meal. If people buy mealie meal from the Zambia National Service (ZNS) Mpika milling plant going to Nakonde with their receipts, they would not have to be kept even for any longer period to move from one point to another within Zambia.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Minister in order to continue giving conflicting statements regarding the movement of mealie meal and maize grain which should be controlled at the border, other than putting checkpoints inland, when there is no ban on exports? Is he in order not to give a clear policy, with his colleague, who is responsible of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) which keeps maize, sitting next to him?

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I know you were not here when I read how –

Mr Kampyongo: I am conversant, Sir!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You may be conversant, but these are rules that were agreed upon by the House; …

Hon. Government Members: By ourselves!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … by ourselves. So, in raising your point of order, yes, you have cited very well and indicated what has been breached, one of the things that was mentioned was that at a point when the hon. Minister gives an answer, but it does not satisfy you, it is what it is because the hon. Minister talks from an informed position.

Laughter

Mr Chitotela: He is the Acting Minister!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, whether he is acting or not, he has authority. He speaks from an informed position. When an hon. Minister speaks, it means the Government has spoken and that is the position of the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kankoyo may continue.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, Zambia’s maize has become a hot cake because of being a non-genetically modified organism (GMO) and the way it is kept. Some countries are offering as much as K520 for a bag, which the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is selling at K200. So, I want to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture if he is encouraging the hon. Members of Parliament in Luapula Province, the Northern Province and Muchinga Province to buy tractors using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) so that the people there can produce more maize and export it?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think you meant to say the Acting hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Mabeta: Yes, I meant the Acting hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, not the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, rarely, the two hon. Ministers you mentioned – Maybe it is because you are seated close to him and looking at his face. What was contained in the question is something else. However, the hon. Minister can still shed light. I think the hon. Member is overwhelmed with the Constituency Development Funds (CDF).

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for asking that important question that hinges on production.

Mr Speaker, if you look up north, at Kenya, it wants a million tonnes of maize, right now. We do not have that capacity. So, we need to up production, and the way to achieve that is exactly what the hon. Member said. We will allow hon. Members of Parliament to encourage their constituents to apply for the CDF to buy tractors, go into production and export. One million tonnes of maize is required in Kenya, and that is a lot of money.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think the hon. Member for Pambashe has heard. He has to produce more maize using the CDF.

The hon. Member for Mkushi South will be the last one to ask.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that he has put up mechanisms to ensure that there is a smooth movement of trucks that are locally transporting maize and maize meal. Can he share with the House some of the mechanisms that he has put in place to ensure that there is no delay at Nkumbi Checkpoint as far as the movement of those trucks delivering maize meal and maize is concerned?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, if I divulge everything, I will be alerting the smuggler. We are talking about a very clever human being. However, I will let you in on how we are trying to monitor the movement of the trucks. We are using digital systems. So, for example, we have to check with the Ministry of Agriculture on the validity or authenticity of the document that transporters carry around during the transportation process. Apart from that, we alert and sensitise the people at the borders to ensure that what we tell them is actually what is contained. If the destination is local, they will ensure that that maize offloads at the place that was declared.

Mr Speaker, if one declares that the maize being transported is for local delivery and is going to be offloaded at X shop, one should do so at that shop and not at Y or towards the border so that one smuggles. So, that is what we are trying to do, as much as possible, to ensure that there is no smuggling. If there is any exportation of the commodity, we ensure that it is legal and benefits the Zambian citizens.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

WATER SHORTAGE IN NAKONDE CONSTITUENCY

185. MrSimumba asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

whether the Government is aware that there has been a critical shortage of water, in the past two weeks, in the following areas in Nakonde Parliamentary Constituency:

Mukuma;
Katozi;
Old Nakonde; and
Town Centre; and

if so, what urgent measures are being taken to resolve the water crisis and prevent water borne diseases.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu) on behalf of the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha)): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that there is a critical shortage of water in Mukuma, Katoza, Old Nakonde and Town Centre, under Nakonde Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Speaker, the critical shortage of water in the named areas has been caused by the low rainfall experienced in Nakonde in the current rainy season and has been compounded by high siltation of the Old Nakonde Dam.

Mr Speaker, the following are the urgent measures being undertaken to resolve the water crisis and prevent outbreaks of waterborne diseases:

with support from the African Development Bank (AfDB), the Government is currently implementing a water supply improvement project in Nakonde District under the Integrated Small –

Mr Chitotela whispered to Eng. Milupi.

Eng. Nzovu: Hon. Chitotela is disturbing me, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, the Government, with support from the African Development Bank (AfDB), is currently implementing a water supply improvement project in Nakonde District under the Integrated Small Towns Water Supply and Sanitation Project. The scope of work includes the rehabilitation of the water treatment plant and desilting of the Old Nakonde Dam. The project is expected to be completed in April 2023.

the Government resumed the implementation of the rescoped Nakonde Water and Supply Improvement Project that began in 2015, but had stalled due to a lack of funding. The project scope includes the drilling of a commercial borehole in Mwenzo area to supplement water supply in the district. This project is expected to be completed during the second quarter of 2023.
the Government is also exploring other potential water sources, including the Chambeshi River, which is located over 100km away from Nakonde District, as an alternative source of water.

Mr Speaker, may I inform hon. Members of the House that the ministry, through the Chambeshi Water and Sanitation Company (ChWSSC), has put in place measures to continue supplying clean and safe water to our people in Nakonde District by conducting water quality surveillance in order to prevent outbreaks of waterborne diseases.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that Nakonde does cater for people that pass through the district, being a transit point, which is one of the busiest in the country, lodges and many other facilities are supplied with water to prevent waterborne diseases. What is the current volume of water per day, as it stands?

Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has put up those measures, is he likely …

Ms Sefulo interjected.

Mr Fube: Yes, you do not know anything young girl.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, as it stands, is that project meant to scale-up the volume of water supplied per day?

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, obviously, the hon. Member asked about the volume. However, I do not have the figures. So, I need to consult. Indeed, there are many people passing through that point, and it is very important that we scale-up.

Mr Speaker, in my statement, I was very clear that one of the measures being undertaken to scale-up water supply is desilting. I think, for the benefit of the hon. Member, who, clearly, is not an engineer, desilting means increasing the volume.

Mr Speaker, basically, once that reservoir is desilted, it will be able to hold much more water. Additionally, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation through Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company is also looking at getting more water from the Chambeshi River.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Minister has mentioned the Africa Development Bank (AfDB) funded project which is putting up water supply infrastructure in Nakonde.

Mr Speaker, however, without a sustainable water source, this infrastructure cannot achieve its intended objective. I have observed that under the same project, an ablution block was constructed at Ulongo but without a treatment facility.

Mr Speaker, for a short-term measure, why is the Government not looking for funds to inject into the ongoing project so that it can benefit the whole field? For a long-term measure, why is the Government not sourcing water from the Chambeshi River, so that the people of Nakonde can have a permanent solution?

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has said what I was going to say. I am glad that he is very much aware of what the ministry is doing there. Indeed, one of the immediate solutions technically in that place is to desilt, rather than getting water from Chambeshi River, which is about 100 km away. However, as the hon. Member has stated, the Government is looking at getting water from Chambeshi River because it is a much more reliable source. However, given the high cost and the high capital input needed, we believe this is a long-term measure.

Mr Speaker, just like the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi has stated, Nakonde is a special case because it is a transit place. The issue of supply of water there is critical because people are moving from one country to another. There are many water bodies nearby, and the chance of water borne diseases is very high.

Mr Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member, that indeed, one measure that we have taken is to revive the project which had stalled, initially. The AfDB is already there and the ministry is ensuring that more funding is provided to Nakonde. So, we are doing everything possible as the Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisopa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nakonde has indicated that there is a critical shortage of water in Nakonde. The hon. Minister has also indicated that the African Development Bank (AfDB) is undertaking a project which is going to finish in April.

Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister share with this House, in the interim, what measures the Government has put in to have constant flow of water in those two areas?

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mkushi for that important question. Again, I think I will give the same answer. The hon. Member will remember that the Government has revived the efforts which were previously there. The AfDB is in place and desilting will be done. One critical thing we think should be done as quickly as possible is to ensure that we grantee the quality of water there. The quantum of water will be garneted as soon as desilting measures have been completed. So, we will do everything possible to ensure that the people of Nakonde are supplied with quality water.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, Nakonde is not the only place that has been hit by the critical water shortage. This clean water shortage is across the country.

Mr Speaker, what is contributing to this critical shortage is that many projects that were started by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to alleviate the water problems stalled in the last eighteen months. Progress has been very slow. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Nakonde and the rest of the country that there will be close supervision of the project funded by the African Development Bank (AfDB) and many other water projects so that the people can have access to clean water across the country?

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I cannot agree more with the hon. Member when he says that this is a problem across the length and breadth of our great country. Infrastructure project which will guarantee provision of water to our citizens, really, we should fund it. We should put more funding to it because water is life and is critical for the well-being of our people.

Mr Speaker, in this particular project which is being supported by the AfDB, the Government has made sure that there will close supervision. We have been promising in this House that all projects which will be undertaken, quality will be maintained, the cost will be within acceptable limits, and that they will be done timorously. So, these three are principles which the New Dawn Government will ensure that it will espouse and stick to. So, the hon. Member should be assured that the project will be done within the stated cost and period of time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(b) and it is directed at the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira.

Mr Speaker, we are always encouraged to be truthful in whatever we say on the Floor of the House. The acting hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation has just mentioned that the water project which was being undertaken in Nakonde stalled in 2015, due to lack of funds.

Mr Speaker, in 2015, the Patriotic Front (PF) was in Government. In raising his question, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira mentioned that most of the water projects stalled during the eighteen or twenty months of the United Party for National Development (UPND) being in power but the hon. Minister clearly indicated that this water project in Nakonde, stalled in 2015, during the PF Government. Is he in order to mislead this House?

I seek your ruling, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira is out of order.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! Let me guide. When the hon. Minister speaks, he tells us what is pertaining on the ground because he speaks from an informed position.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I am making a ruling.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: When the hon. Minister was responding to the question about the said project, he gave a background. The hon. Minister said that this project stalled in 2015. The point of order the hon. Member rose on was against the same background, 2015. Under the circumstances, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira is out of order.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us make progress. Our senior hon. Member of the House is arguing when he knows the rules very well. I know he loves politics.

CONSTRUCTION OF A HEALTH CENTRE AT MUTAPA VILLAGE IN CHIFUNABULI

186. Ms Nyemba (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) whether the Government has any plans to construct a health centre at Mutapa Village in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency;

(b) if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c) if there are no such plans, why.

Ms Nyemba: Mr Speaker, the said question has been overtaken by events because it is one of the projects that we are implementing using the 2022 Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So, I withdraw it.

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

Question, by leave, accordingly withdrawn.

REHABILITATION OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN KALABO DISTRICT

187. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Health when the Government will rehabilitate the following infrastructure in Kalabo District:

(a) Kalabo District Hospital; and

(b) staff houses at the hospital.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, the Government will rehabilitate Kalabo District Hospital this year, using the Constituency Development Funds (CDFs) for Kalabo Central and Liuwa constituencies.

Mr Speaker, the staff houses that got burnt in October 2022 will be rehabilitated this year, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), under the Office of the Vice-President.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I sufficiently receive the hon. Minister’s response. However, I have two concerns. Yes, it is true that there has been concerted effort from the two constituencies, but the amount is not enough to cover the whole hospital, meaning only part of the hospital will be rehabilitated. The hospital is in a bad condition and it needs to be renovated. Further, the staff houses are dilapidated, and the workers are under distress. What is the Government doing to address this issue other than it renovating the two houses which were burnt? Those are not the only houses that need to be renovated. The only solution would be for the workers in the whole compound to shift to new structures. However, in the meantime, what will the Government do, to come to the aid of those workers?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. I sympathise with the people in view of the situation on the ground, and I will give additional information.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that one staff house got burnt in October 2022. The hospital planned to rehabilitate that particular house, but luckily, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) requested to rehabilitate the house on its behalf. The Bill of Quantities (BoQs) were handed over and the DMMU is doing the procurement currently. So, in view of this answer, since the hospital planned to rehabilitate one staff house, maybe, the resources it wanted to use to rehabilitate that house can now be used to renovate the houses the hon. Member is talking about. However, the male medical ward, the X-ray department, the children’s ward, OPD, and kitchen were earmarked for rehabilitation using the 2022 CDF for Kalabo Central and Liuwa constituencies’ allocation of K1.6 million, which has now been reduced to K1.3 million. The procurement is being done through CDF and due to the high threshold beyond the district, it is being done centrally.

Mr Speaker, currently, the hospital is repairing the sewer system, undertaking plumbing works, and is painting the male ward, children’s ward and the OPD using the grants and the National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIMA) funds. So, this is what is currently being done. However, going forward, we will see how far the repairs will go. Thereafter, we will look at the current budget for rehabilitation works and we will see whether it will be possible for the Central Government to work with the Provincial and District Administration in Kalabo. We will see how we will support them to undertake further works to improve on some of the concerns that have been raised by the hon. Member for Kalabo Central. However, like I said, at least something is being done. So, we will see how the situation will be after those works have been done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I urge the officers at the District Administration to be factual. They know that I live with them. I do not even know what to say. The District Director of Health knows very well that I live with them and we interact.

Mr Speaker, if I was a magician, I would have taken the hon. Minister, right now, to see the ward that her officials are untruthfully informing her on. If you were to enter that ward and then somebody tells you that this is in Zambia, you would be surprised. You would question whether it is indeed part of Zambia. There is no renovation for the whole hospital. The renovation the ministry officials are talking about is on the side ward, which is occupied by those who subscribe to the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA). Surely, would we classify a side ward to be the main ward?

Mr Speaker, the English that I was taught is that a side ward is just part of the main ward. Therefore, the hon. Minister should know that the hospital is in a deplorable state. If I had my own resources, I would have demolished the hospital and erected a new one because it is old and dilapidated. The hon. Minister should urge her officers to be telling her the truth. They know that I live with them. So, they cannot be telling her things which are not true as if I am not there. Maybe they forgot that I live with them.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: So, the hon. Minister should just forget about that part because there is no ward that they are referring to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I think there is no question there. I am just being informed that the hon. Member of Parliament lives with the people. Whatever information they have given us, according to him, is not sufficient enough. Maybe what needs to be done is that I will ask that they take pictures of this whole hospital. He is suggesting that we must demolish the hospital. Maybe he is also suggesting that I fly there. So God willing, I will visit Kalabo Hospital and see what needs to be done.

Mr Speaker, on a serious note, like I have said, the hon. Member of Parliament should be aware that clearly this response shows that the money from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for both constituencies involved is going to be used to undertake some rehabilitations, except that those rehabilitations are temporary measures meant to just keep the hospital going.

Sir, in the long-term, however, he is suggesting that we need serious rehabilitation works of the entire hospital. I would still agree because that depends on when that hospital was built. I know that there are a number of hospitals that are really death traps, just like the Kitwe District Hospital. I went there and, personally, I noted that it was not a good building. It is actually a danger.

Mr Speaker, it should be noted that we cannot do everything in one year. What is important is that we acknowledge that and we are desirous to ensure that we continue to rehabilitate and build new structures where necessarily. So going forward, I pray and hope that we can look at Kalabo District Hospital.

Sir, the hon. Member reminds me of the story which talks about a judge who did not fear anybody, not even God. However, when this woman kept pestering him as a judge, he said, “Let me deal with this situation so that this woman stops bothering me.” The hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo has been pushing, so hopefully soon I should be able to visit Kalabo so that he also stops bothering me.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES AT NTUNTA AND MUNG’ANG’A CROSSING POINTS

188. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

when construction of the following bridges in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence:
Ntunta; and
Mung’ang’a; and
what the cause of the delay in commencing the projects is.

The Ministers of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Speaker, the construction of the Ntunta crossing point in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency was undertaken and completed in February, 2023. I must say that this question was put forward in November, 2021. So it has obviously been overtaken by time.

Sir, the construction of the Mung’ang’a crossing point in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence when funds are secured. Engineering surveys have already been undertaken and cost estimates for the required works have been submitted to the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) for funding.

Mr Speaker, works on construction of Ntunta crossing point were completed while the delay in commencing the Mung’ang’a crossing point is due to funding constraints.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Speaker, let me begin by thanking the hon. Minister of Infrastructure –

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry to my brother, the hon. Member, for interrupting his question. However, I rise on a serious procedural point of order. Tomorrow is International Women’s Day and I am sure you are aware. I am looking at the time and wondering when our sons, husbands and brothers are going to have time to get gifts for the women of Zambia.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you said that you rise on a point of order, but you did not cite which Standing Orders has been breached. You have to be precise.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, it is Standing Order 65, Clause 2.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Alright, let me just check.

Mrs Masebo: It is on content.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Alright, you can continue, hon. Minister.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, tomorrow is a very important day for women who are mothers, wives, sisters and aunties. I see that the time is 1800 hours and shops will be closed. As women, we love flowers and are expecting flowers from our sons, husbands, brothers and hon. Members of Parliament who are male. So we thought that you could help the women to be recognised by ensuring that we rise on time so that we can be taken for dinner.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I know the hon. Minister just wanted to bring this to light. However, her point of order is not sustained.

May the hon. Member for Roan continue.

Mr J. Chibuye: Mr Speaker, to that effect, let me then begin by congratulating the hon. Minister of Health and all the women in the republic and wish them a happy Women’s Day. I hope one day they will also congratulate us. They must also give us a men’s day.

Mr Speaker, first of all, I thank the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, Hon. Milupi, who has been magnanimous in responding to issues. I thank him for according and giving me his ear in making sure that the bridge that was a menace and hassle in my constituency has now been worked on. I can only hope that as I come back to knock on his door, he shall provide more funding to enable us do more work that side.

Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said that Mung’ang’a Bridge will only be worked on when funds are available. Meanwhile, people need to cross the stream. In the interim, what is his ministry hoping to do? Is he not thinking of maybe putting up some Acrow bridges, if at all he has some, in his ministry, so that the people of this area can have access to cross to and from both sides of the river?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan for the kind words. It is a clear indication that the New Dawn Government is here for the whole country. There is not a piece of the country that the New Dawn Government of President Hakainde Hichilema finds hostile. His directive to us as hon. Ministers is to serve each and every corner of the country.

Mr Speaker, let me just give a little bit of information. Construction works on the Ntunta crossing point were undertaken a cost of K415,000 using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Scope of works included the construction of the box culverts, graveling and stone pitching. So, this crossing point in the Mung’ang’a crossing point are part of the Kanchibiya Resettlement Scheme. The estimated cost of the construction of the Mung’ang’a crossing point, including the road is K1.3 million. Now, here is the answer to his question.

Mr Speaker, the construction of the Mung’ang’a crossing point will done under Force Account; works will be undertaken in-house through the Road Development Agency (RDA) regional office in Muchinga Province. When we say when funds are available, in this particular case, it is when allocation to the Muchinga regional manager’s office is done. Part of the constraints is every time we receive an amount, there is a big chunk, which I mentioned earlier in my statement, that goes to service some of these loans like the NAPSA and Workers Compensations Fund Control Board loans. Of what we receive on a monthly basis, 40 per cent goes to that. If we receive K80 million, and this is about what we receive every month, K35 million goes to service those things, which leaves us with very little for emergency works, for routine maintenance, for paying legacy debt and so on and so forth.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister clearly indicated that the construction of the crossing point on the Mung’ang’a Bridge will be done when funds are available, particularly when an allocation is done to the regional manager for the Muchinga Province. Is the hon. Minister in a position to give a bit of hope to the people of Kanchibiya regarding when these allocations will probably be made?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, it is difficult to give a specific date or time. When the 2023 Budget came to this House for approval, you may have noticed that the budget for roads is not under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. It is budgeted for elsewhere. We constantly ask for money to be released to fund works like this one, and even then, that depends on when those we speak to are able to release the funds. That is why we give the answer in the manner that we have done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is a man of his words. The last time we asked about the Aluni Bridge, he assured us that something would be done and I confirm that there has been movement in that regard.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about the Mung’ang’a Bridge, the background is that the Tazara Corridor is earmarked for commercial farming. The problem of Kanchibiya is not a problem with water, but of water in the two main river bodies and what to do with it. When it is time to cross these rivers; our children have to get to school; our mothers have to get attended to medically; and our farmers have to transport their agriculture produce, it becomes a huge challenge.

I have a very special message from His Royal Highness Chief Luchembe and the people of Kanchibiya. The question they are asking is whether the Mung’ang’a Bridge can be worked on within the year 2023. It will make a huge difference and it is one that the hon. Minister would wish to make in the lives of the people of Kanchibiya and the Mung’ang’a Community.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for appreciating what we do when we are able to do it. We shall continue in that vein.

Mr Speaker, the amount of money remaining is K1.3 million. I have said that this work on the Mung’ang’a Bridge will be done under Force Account. Force Account basically means in-house. In other words, the regional manager and his team will mobilise themselves to go and put up this crossing point. It is likely that it can be done within 2023. I do not think it a major issue, but what the hon. Member should do is continue doing what he has done in the past; interact with us. That way, even as we ask for resources and allocate to Muchinga, we can give instructions that this particular one also be catered for.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, let me thank the hon. Minister for his assurance. I can commit to continuing interacting with him on the Mung’ang’a Bridge. This bridge is a life changer in the life of the people of Kanchibiya.

Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, on this day, we have buried our mother, the wife to the Senior Chief in Kanchibiya, Mrs Kopa. This particular question comes at a very important time for the people of Kanchibiya.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I pass our condolences to Senior Chief Kopa on the loss of his wife, their mother. Otherwise, the hon. Member was just thanking us for what I have said and that he will continue interacting with us.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, thank you very much and like the hon. Minister of Health has said, I do not want to bore the house so much, but just make a few comments so that we can quickly celebrate International Women’s Day.

Mr J. Chibuye: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkulukusa: Mr Speaker, I want to anchor my comments on the address by the President on three pillars. The first pillar being the one that most of my colleagues commented on; that the presentation was precise. This reminded me of one scholar and writer by the name of Phillip Kotler who always reminded people that when they are giving strategic direction, they must follow the acronym KISSP meaning, Keep It Short, Simple and Precise.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkulukusa: Mr Speaker, that presentation was really precise, delivering points home and ensuring that the main things that were discussed were the national values, morality and integrity.

Mr Speaker, secondly, I want to emphasise that whatever presentation the President made, the bottom line was to encourage the people of this country to anchor whatever they do on national values. I think he reminded us of the things we discuss on the dinner table with our children.

Mr Speaker, you can never fight corruption if the people you are fighting cannot turn around and embrace moral integrity. You can never unite a country if people are void of moral integrity. You cannot preach real democracy until the people who are participating in that democracy are moved with moral integrity.

Mr Speaker, it is for this reason I felt that the cornerstone of the President’s Speech was to encourage some of us who are privileged to lead others, to embrace moral integrity and accountability as they will bring everything that we talk about into fruition. We can bring about good democracy if we embrace moral integrity and accountability. We can bring about change by ensuring that we reduce corruption and that we use the resources when we are filled with moral integrity. So, the President was trying to shoot and ensure that people embrace and anchor moral integrity on whatever they talk about.

Mr Speaker, I know that some people really wanted the President to come and Report the Progress Made on the Application of the National Values and Principles and indeed, what he reported was progress. For me, I realised that progress was made in mainly four or three areas. Progress, by Vroom’s definition, is simply a step in the right direction. When you make a step in the right direction, you have made progress.

Mr Speaker, some years ago, we used to hear about bans on the harvest of Mukula trees. We used to hear how people would trade in Mukula illegally. We saw videos circulating of people trading in Mukula illegally and no arrests were made. We never heard of people being taken to court. It is said that bad habits die hard. Today, we have seen how some people have tried to illegally mine sugilite. Some of them have been arrested and fired. That is progress when it comes to national values. It means that we are moving in the right direction.

Mr Speaker, in the past, even hon. Ministers used to be punched by cadres. They used to be beaten by cadres and it was very common. Today, cadres know that if they do that, they are on their own. That is morality. That is a step in the right direction. That is progress being made.

Mr Speaker, today, I can hold a very high position but if I am accused of corruption and I am being investigated by the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), I will still hold my position. I will still have that influence to allow for investigations. We saw what happened at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning that those who commit crime and are under investigations are removed to pave way for investigations. That is progress when it comes to national values.

Mr Speaker, I felt that the principle thing the President came to remind us as leaders was to ensure that we embrace morality, integrity and accountability. When we have achieve that, we can then talk about uniting the country, achieving real democracy, and peace and prosperity.

Mr Speaker, without wasting much of your time, I felt it was very critical for the President to come and report Progress on National Values and Principles to this House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for availing me the opportunity. Let us honour, respect and adore all the amazing women in our lives as we celebrate International Women’s Day.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms S. Mwamba: Being a woman is indeed is a super power. In particular, I thank the women of Kasama Central; I wish them a happy Women’s Day, which is tomorrow. They should celebrate it well, according to this year’s theme.

Mr Speaker, let me now contribute to the debate on the Motion of Thanks. On page 3, the President stated that, as a nation, we still experience a high prevalence of vices such as alcohol and substance abuse, teenage pregnancy, child marriage and Gender Based Violence (GBV), but I feel the President forgot to mention one important issue, which is the high rate of new infections among the youths.

Mr Speaker, during the period under review, the Government did not do well in its sensitisation and rehabilitation programmes. I will talk about the figures, because as the President usually tells us, numbers do not lie. In 2021, there were 217,234 sensitisation programmes, and in relation to statistics, this is only 1.08 per cent. In 2022, yes, the number went up to 523,973, but in relation to the population, it is only 2.6 per cent. Indeed, we are not doing well in that area, and so much more has to be done.

Mr Speaker, in view of the high prevalence of alcohol abuse, as a nation, we only managed to provide rehabilitation services to 1,212 citizens in 2022. In relation to the population of about 20 million, this only amounts to 0.06 per cent. Can we really call that as progress? With such low statistics, it shows that the majority of our citizens lack knowledge, education or are not aware of certain things.

Mr Speaker, once again, I wish to ask. What should come first? We appreciate that blankets, bunker beds and mattresses will be provided to the inmates, but the infrastructure is not in a good state. Why did we not start with providing infrastructure? Much as the inmates will have beds, blankets and mattresses, where will they stay? Some structures were constructed as far back as in 1964. So, the Government needed to first construct more infrastructure before providing those things. The prisons are a sorry sight. A prison with space for 200 people, now houses 900 people. So, despite increasing the number of bunker beds, we are still not doing so much.

Mr Speaker, yes, there is free education, but we also need to look at the quality of education being provided. Much as every child must sit on a desk, we needed to consider constructing more infrastructure, and the Central Government needed to come in. Right now, what we have is quantity education instead of quality education.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms S. Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about skills training. 29,916 youths in 145 constituencies acquired skills training. On average, that is 206 learners per constituency. 40 per cent of the population are the youths, which is 8 million, and 29,916 youths is only 0.37 per cent. Can we call that doing well? We still have a lot more work to do.

Interruptions

Ms S. Mwamba: Yes, 0.37 per cent of the youth population; I am not even looking at the national population. So, we still have a lot of work to do, when it comes to skills transfer.

Mr Speaker, still on skills training, in Kasama, there is only Lukashya Trades Training Institute, in Lukashya Constituency. Right now, there is a backlog of students because we do not have enough skills centres. The Government needed to construct skills centres before providing bursaries and education to the youths. Further, the Government needed to construct boarding schools. So, there is so much more that the Central Government needs to help us with. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is not enough, …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms S. Mwamba: …especially in rural constituencies. We still have so much work to do. We are so much behind in infrastructure development.

Mr Speaker, lastly, let me also state that when the President deliberates on matters concerning the prisons, the topic is always sticky. There is a saying in Bemba that ‘icikalipa chumfwa umwine’, which translates to, some old wounds never truly heal.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms S. Mwamba: Mr Speaker, however, let me encourage each one of us that ico utemenwe chikosha imbafu, meaning, pain pays the income of each precious thing.

Mr Speaker, when we look around this House, we are all one. For those of us who have been wounded by another, we have struggled to understand, and move beyond our feelings of hurt and anger. However, forgiveness shows that it is possible to heal our land. Let us find room in our hearts to forgive. The longer we live in the past, the less time we have to enjoy in the future.

Mr Speaker, let me reiterate that as leaders we are key to national unity. Let us love one another. We are in this House for a purpose; to represent our people. For as long as we stand together, love always leads. I stand here to say, One Zambia, One nation, and unity is key.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Member: quality!

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Pemba an opportunity to debate the Motion of Thanks on the President’s Speech.

Mr Speaker, the speech delivered by His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, brought hope to the people of Zambia. It shows that we have a sober President in State House. The country is in safe hands.

Mr Speaker, allow me to focus my debate on morality and ethics. The President informed the House that a total of 1212 citizens were rehabilitated in 2022. I am talking about those who had a history of drugs and alcohol abuse. In 2021, 810 citizens were rehabilitated. This shows that there is progress in terms of ensuring that those who abuse drugs are transformed.

Mr Speaker, the country is bleeding. There is so much abuse of alcohol and drugs. It is high time we worked as a team, as one, to help this nation stop those who sell Kachasu.

Hon. Member: Why should we stop them?

Mr Hamwaata: Those are spirits. Others call it Maureen Mukiya.

Hon. Member: Let them drink it. Epo tulishila abana.

Mr Hamwaata: Mr Chairperson, we need to help and support the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development There is a tendency of people complaining when they are told to stop selling Kachasu. This beer has really disturbed or confused our youths.

Mr Speaker, we are better off controlling or even stopping people who are selling Kachasu, so that the lives of our youths are preserved. Remember, our youths are the leaders of tomorrow and today. Therefore, it is very important that the health of our youths is protected. We have heard so many people say Epotulishila abana meaning this is where we feed our children from. We need to come up with some initiatives to stop those who are selling Kachasu. The initiative that we need to come up with is to buy off the beers that they are selling and help these people to start businesses that will destroy our youths.

Mr Speaker, allow me to move to national unity. Mr Hakainde Hichilema is the number one promoter of national unity. The Republican President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema has demonstrated that through the appointments of Cabinet Ministers who come from different parts of this country. The Republican President has demonstrated that he is a unifier by appointing District Commissioners (DCs) and Permanent Secretaries (PSs) from different corners of this country.

Mr Speaker, it is therefore, very important that as hon. Members of Parliament and as a nation, we emulate this sobre-minded President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. We need to unite and work as a team to develop this nation. United we stand, divided we fall.

Mr Speaker, there have been assertions that in the New Dawn, corruption has gone up following the arrest of the presidential appointees. To the contrary, it is because in the New Dawn Administration, we do not condone corruption. Those who are corrupt are on their own. Those who are corrupt are arrested. We do not hide corruption, like what used to happen with our colleagues. Those who were corrupt were left scot-free, but with His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, if you are found on the wrong side of the law, you are on your own. He has told this nation that he is going to fight the corruption of yesterday, the corruption of today and that of tomorrow.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, allow me to start addressing this speech from the manner in which it was delivered because delivery is very important.

Interruptions

Mr Fube: You may say umh, but may you listen to me.

Mr Speaker, in parliamentary order, especially in the Commonwealth, there is what is called the manner and form of doing things. For instance, we have all sworn allegiance to the President as hon. Members of Parliament. However, when you look at the speech that the President delivered and the verbatim record, you will see that they are variance in a manner that someone cannot even contemplate.

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, having said that, I would like to indicate that I am at pains to actually know which one is the speech –

Mr Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 9^thMarch, 2023.

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Tuesday, 7th March, 2023

Order Paper

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