Wednesday, 1^st March, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of Dr Sanguma L. Mossai, Second Vice-President of the Parliament of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guest and warmly welcome him in our midst.

Bonsoir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, MR MPOSHA, ON THE WATER SHORTAGE IN NAKONDE

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this chance to raise this matter of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 134. This matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam Speaker, the water situation in Nakonde is worsening each and every day. You can recall that this is not the first time I am raising this matter. I remember that you counselled us on this water crisis which we are facing. I did follow your counsel and went to see the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation. The hon. Minister told me that the problem which is there needs a long term programme.

Madam Speaker, as I speak now, people in affected areas like Mukoma, Ntindi and Katozi are fetching water from the wells. You know, there are some diseases that take advantage of situations where there is lack of water.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister, therefore, in order not to provide us with a short term solution to this problem so that the people of Nakonde can have access to clean water?

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, thank you for raising the issue concerning the situation of water in your constituency. However, that matter that you have raised as a matter of urgent public importance does not qualify to be raised under this segment because it is not of recent occurrence.

Hon. Member, in your submission, you have stated that this is not the first time that you are raising this matter. You had raised it before, but the situation continues. So on that ground alone, the matter does not qualify to be admitted as a matter of urgent public importance. I will, therefore, suggest that you put in a question to the hon. Minister so that he addresses that issue.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

REHABILITATION OF TOWNSHIP ROADS IN KABWE

176. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. why the rehabilitation works on the township roads in Kabwe District have stalled;
2. when the works will resume;
3. how much money was owed to the contractor, as of June, 2022; and
4. how many kilometres are earmarked for rehabilitation under the project.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as the hon. Minister addresses this issue, hon. Members will recall that this issue was addressed extensively by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, when he gave a ministerial statement. So, when this question is discussed, we will restrict it to Bwacha Constituency only.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of township roads in Kabwe District has stalled due to limitations in available funds in the previous Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP).

Madam Speaker, the outstanding works on the project will be considered in future work plans subject to availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, as of June, 2022, the contractor was owed K69,430,318.16, out of the certified amount.

Madam Speaker, the project scope covered rehabilitation of 79 km, out of which 46 km have been completed, leaving a balance of 33 km yet to be completed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, in responding to part (b) of the question about when the works will resume, the hon. Minister stated that works may be considered in future national work plans. I would like to know the national work plans that the hon. Minister is referring to. Is it this year’s national work plan or maybe, in the near future?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, my colleague, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, as you rightly said, dealt with these matters of township roads. The New Dawn Government is desirous of bringing into this country, as much development as is possible, and that development must cover all corners of our country. It would have been a perfect solution for us as the New Dawn Government to complete these projects as quickly as possible because that matches with our agenda, as we promised the Zambian people when we went to seek for their votes.

Madam Speaker, the challenges that we, both myself and the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, explain on the Floor of this House, are real. That is why we are seeking to tidy-up to ensure that we get on top of these contracts, most of which were signed without money. This will enable us to start afresh and any contract that is signed will be backed by a budget and available resources.

Madam Speaker, I have also stated that no project on which Zambian money has been spent, either from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) or Patriotic Front (PF) days, will be cancelled. It is a question of revisiting these things and ensuring that those that remain are put in work plans.

Madam Speaker, on the hon. Member’s question as to whether it is this year’s or next year’s work plan, I think that is dependent upon how soon we can get the necessary resources. In terms of where the resources are expected to come from, again, this Government, through the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, has stated exactly what it is trying to do to unlock these resources, mainly to deal with the issue of debt, which the able hon. Minister and his team are doing at the moment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, before I pose my question, allow me to congratulate the Chairperson for the Public Private Partnership (PPP) Council of Ministers, who yesterday with his team signed the contract to see the rehabilitation and construction of the T2T3 Dual Carriageway from Lusaka to Ndola. I happily assume that this will include the roads from Masangano to Fisenge and Fisenge to Luanshya. We congratulate them …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye:… and we cannot wait to see this project commence.

Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister said that there is a stretch on which works have been done. Could he kindly state as to whether there are any Interim Payment Certificates ((IPCs) that have not been paid. If at all they are there, are they attracting any interest on the part of the Government?

Mr Kafwaya: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the Member for Roan, Hon. Chibuye, for those words of encouragement on what this Government is doing. The answer to the question on whether there are any outstanding Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs) or amounts on the IPCs is yes. In fact, the amount of certified works undertaken by the contractor is K314,500,705.09, out of which K245,070,386.93 has so far been paid to the contractor. Therefore, the answer to his question is that the difference between the two figures is the outstanding certified works that the contractor is owed. These amounts are attracting interest. Some of the contracts may be attracting standing charges and so on and so forth, and that is why the Government is desirous of sorting out these matters so that it can limit the cost that it is incurring.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, I recall that two weeks ago, when the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development was on the Floor of the House and we were dealing with a question on the Piccadilly Road Project, he indicated that the people of Kabwe should not be worried because an announcement would soon be made.

Madam Speaker, I can see you recall and you are nodding that very soon –

Madam Speaker: I was nodding back to the hon. Member who was nodding. I was just acknowledging.

Laughter

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, I recall the hon. Minister indicated that the people of Kabwe, not only Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency, should not be worried and that an announcement was going to be made soon, and the people of Kabwe were going to smile.

Madam Speaker, I also recall that the initial contract for the works that the Government or the Road Development Agency (RDA) signed yesterday to work on the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway also included 20 km of township roads for Kabwe District. I think this was before the New Dawn Government reviewed the contract. I do not know as the project progresses if the people of Kabwe will be considered from the same good project that the hon. Minister launched yesterday in Ndola. I do not know if the people of Kabwe will be provided with township roads, especially that the project spans through Central Province and Kabwe in particular.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the one thing that the New Dawn Government never does is to lie.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Eng. Milupi: So, indeed, the hon. Member for Bwacha is right that I said the people of Kabwe will smile very soon. That was two weeks ago. Yesterday, the news came and already, we have heard from the hon. Member for Roan that he is smiling. I assume that even the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha is already smiling.

Madam Speaker, as you can see, he is smiling.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: The question he raises is whether this project will be extended into the townships of Kabwe. I think these matters must be left as they are. I do not want to say anything that will jeopardise what needs to be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, I want to join those who have congratulated the New Dawn Government on the road works that will commence from Lusaka to Ndola. This project was supposed to be done at US$2 billion under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, but it will only be done at US$577 million by the New Dawn Government. That is responsibility to the people of Zambia.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, we know that the people John Chinena, in particular, ….

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune: … are so excited and I hope His Excellency the President is listening because this is where the accidents were happening. Hon. Minister, you need to come specifically to Chibombo, Chisamba, Liteta and Chaloshi, but in particular at John Chinena …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune: … to come and show the hard working teamof this His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, with his able Vice-President, Mrs Mutale Nalumango, and the entire leadership.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune:Madam Speaker, the question though, hon. Minister …

 Madam Speaker: Order!

 Hon. Deputy Chief Whip,

Ms Kasune: Yes, mom.

Madam Speaker: Chinena meaning …

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

That was on a light note. Can you proceed.

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, you can hear the excitement, especially from the men. This is the name for the Lenje people of a headman who was known to be in love with the very ‘chinena’. So, it is a name of a place.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, the question to the able hon. Minister is whether he is going to consider an amount or a percentage for women to participate in the works because many are the times that women are left out and as the Chairperson for the Women Parliamentarian Caucus and also just as a mother and an hon. Member of Parliament, we want to see a deliberate policy or initiative for the works of the women.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised. Is it a point of order?

Mr Mundubile: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, my point of order relates to Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member who is on the Floor stated that the road that was launched was supposed to be done at a cost of US $2 billion under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. Is the hon. Member in order to mention figures loosely without making reference to the reduced scope and he mentioned the fact that the cost of the road now is lower because it is of reduced scope and also that as a country, we have foregoing toll fees for twenty-five years in which case if those figures were to be re-calculated, she will come to the realisation that the they may not be savings at all. Is she in order to mislead herself and the nation that the project was supposed to have been done expensively, yet what we have signed for may turn up to be actually more expensive than it was initially was. I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: Leader of the Opposition, unfortunately, I do not have the details of how much the road is going to cost or the scope and so, it is difficult for me to say whether the hon. Chief Deputy Whip is out of order or the Leader of Opposition is stating the facts. I do not have the information. So, we leave that issue to lie. Maybe, we can debate it one day.

Ms Kasune: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the question is in the works that are reserved for Zambians. I must make it very clear because the law is very specific. It is at least 20 per cent for Zambian contractors and our desire is that Zambian contactors participate. We have been sensitising them and we continue to sensitise our people especially those that are along the road. They must organise themselves so that they can participate. With reference to women, yes, indeed, we want them to also participate.

Madam the hon. Deputy Chief Whip may be interested to know that in this country, there is an organisation called ‘Women in Construction’. They are very well organised and have contracting companies and so on. So, what we need to do is to urge them to prepare themselves to also participate. It includes the youths so that they are also able to participate not only in terms of contracting works, but also in terms of supplying goods and services to the contractors that will be on the road.

Madam, the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services and I were chatting yesterday that there are opportunities of even supplying food to those that will be working on the road and she has a structured way in which things will be done. So, Madam Speaker, this is a win-win situation for all. Elsewhere, Madam Speaker, I have heard stories of the differences in terms of scope between what was planned previously by the previous Government and what is being done now. Let me make it very clear.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: The construction cost for this road is exactly as is stated. Under the new contract, the construction for the road is going to cost US$577 dollars million or a little above that which includes extra costs like financing costs and interest which is about US$64 million. If we add those, it comes to about US$642 dollars.

Madam Speaker, on the other contracts, there were hidden costs. Firstly, that contract was going to be given out under a contractor facilitated finance model. In other words, it was going to be a loan to the Zambian Government. In addition, over the period, it is a well-known fact that it was going to attract interest payments. If you work out those and add, and in addition to that, over the period obviously, when an Engineering, Procurement and Construction is completed, immediately, you begin to incur maintenance charges as you go along. Again, when you factor those, you would find that the figure that the hon. Deputy Chief Whip mentioned is fairly accurate, Madam Speaker.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: There was only one indication, but suddenly, there are so many. Are these afterthoughts?

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Mundubile was saying that for the next twenty-five years that the concession is going to run, the Government is not going to collect any toll fees whatsoever. I would like to find from the hon. Minister if that is the case especially that he did not mention when he was going to visit John Chinena.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: The challenge that I have now is that we have left the question on the township roads in Kabwe District and now we are talking about the Great East Road and John Chinena.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: So, maybe, let us come back to the question and concentrate on the Question. Those were digressions.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. I also thank you for your guidance that we remain relevant to the question by the hon. Member for Bwacha.

Madam the hon. Member for Bwacha has a mandate to report back to his constituency on when the roads will be worked on. In his response, the hon. Minister has indicated that there are no funds at moment. What consolation is the hon. Minister going to give the hon. Member for Bwacha to take back to the constituency in as far as the commencement of the works is concerned?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, what the hon. Member can take with him back to Bwacha is first of all, to go and tell our citizens who are there that the New Dawn Government is a listening Government and it is listening. That is why I have said that there are certain plans that are being made to effect certain changes. However, these are contingent upon certain things happening. That is why earlier on, I said I do not want to jeopardise what is being discussed because if I stand on the Floor of the House and promise things that are not ready, that becomes the Government assurance. Therefore, if we do not fulfil those promises, then we commit an offence, according to the rules of this House. There are things being planned. The hon. Member is welcome to engage with the Government as he does, so that we can discuss some of these things.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, indeed, the hon. Minister opened up himself when he started talking about the new project. There is a nexus between this new project and the question posed by Hon. Mushanga in the sense that, in the initial discussion of the Dual Carriageway Project, there were those works that included works on 20km of roads in Kabwe District, Kapiri Mposhi District and Chisamba District, and all the towns along the stretch, including John Chinena, which was mentioned. That is why the former Vice-President’s Office tried to relocate John Chinena market from the main road to an upper land in readiness for the expansion. This was because the expansion of the road would affect the livelihoods of people who conduct businesses along that road. So, there was the Build, Destroy and Build Back Project for business communities that are along the road.

Madam Speaker, now, if the hon. Minister is saying that he has to wait, when the contract has already been signed, what message should the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha go with? The hon. Minister is saying there are still discussions on the matter even after the contract has been signed. We want to benefit from the fact that the hon. Minister has volunteered information. Do those discussions still include the kilometres that were planned for the districts that are along the road, specifically in Kabwe?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I fail to understand what township roads were planned for John Chinena. My understanding is that when you turn a single carriageway into a double carriage way, there has to be movement to widen it. I think that is where that was coming from.

Madam Speaker, we can argue time and again as to what this particular project is, but the project that was announced yesterday is exactly what it is. We have been very transparent. Development of the rest of the country is the responsibility of the Government and it is not leaving anything behind, including Bwacha and its roads.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to submit a question to the hon. Minister. First of all, I want to ride on the congratulations that have been tendered by a few hon. Members here. I am interested, though, in knowing the modalities of employment that the Government has in plan seeing that this road is from Lusaka to Ndola. Which people are going to qualify to be employed? I am imagining–

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta!

We are drifting back to the duel carriageway. I am sure there should be day when we should just discuss that. It looks like hon. Members are interested. Can we restrict ourselves to the KabweTownship Roads. Do you have a question on that? If you do not have, we can move to the hon. Member for Kabushi, who was the last to indicate.

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, no, I do not have a question in those lines.

Mr Kanengo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me an opportunity to represent the people of Kabushi. You have guided the hon. Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta and so, I will not go in his direction. However, as I am seated here, I am receiving text messages that the hon. Minister has not stated on the Floor of this House whether part of the contract that was procured will be sub-contracted to Zambians.

Madam Speaker: That is also not related to the question.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT BOARDING SCHOOLS IN KANCHIBIYA

177. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Education:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a boarding secondary school in Kanchibiya District; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo) (on behalf oftheMinister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, ...

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we listen to the answer that is being provided by the hon. Minister.

Mr Nkombo: ... the Government does have plans to construct a secondary boarding school in Kanchibiya District of Muchinga Province through the Zambia Education Enhancement Project (ZEEP).

Madam, the implementation of these plans will commence in the third quarter of this year.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya, I wish to place on record that I am grateful that there are these plans by the Government to ensure that there is a boarding school in Kanchibiya.

Madam Speaker, boarding secondary education plays a very important role in ensuring quality education for our people. At the moment, we have a crisis of pupils we refer to as weekly boarders. I know this is not only peculiar to Kanchibiya but other parts of the country as well in rural constituencies. We have our young men, girls and boys staying in poorly constructed unsafe make shift huts made of grass or mud. The problem is even deeper for the girl child who drops out of school due to teenage pregnancies and unsafe abortions. Has the Government already identified a site or location for this secondary schools?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question from the Hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya, especially the passion with which he asked and the fear he expressed about the girl child concerning the current boarding facility situation.

Madam Speaker, currently, the situation in Kanchibiya is that there is the construction going on of the Chalabesa and Mukuba day secondary schools in the same district, through the Ministry of Education, under the Zambia Education Enhancement Project (ZEEP) that became operational in 2017 to build eighty-two secondary schools in seven provinces. The boarding secondary school that I just talked about is among the 120 new boarding secondary schools that this Government intends to start constructing in the third quarter of this year, countrywide. The project will be implemented over a period of three years, up to the year 2025, using the community mode.

Madam Speaker, as regards the site, which the hon. Member seeks to find out, the selection is based on the objective criteria, using various parameters, including the pupil-classroom ratio for secondary schools; the number of existing secondary schools in a district or constituency; and the recent Government initiative to construct or upgrade those schools. This requires very close engagement with all stakeholders, including the office of the hon. Member of Parliament and councillors, in order to arrive at the actual site in Kanchibiya Constituency.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the Acting hon. Minister of Education has informed this august House that Kanchibiya will be getting a boarding secondary school, and I am confident that there are other places which have also been identified. He is aware that in his ministry, Local Government and Rural Development, we have a component of boarding school bursaries that we support children with. Would he be kind enough to indicate whether there are other districts that will benefit from this Government project? I am aware that Kitwe has no boarding school and that there are so many districts that would like to benefit from this Government programme.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, this is a constituency-based question and I believe the hon. Minister, especially that he is acting, may not have those details with him right now. So, if you want to get details of that, you can visit the ministry and get more details about the particular school that you are asking about.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, bearing in mind, uhm , the change…

Hon. Members: Uhm?

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, am I protected?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, please, whoever says ‘uhm’ will go outside.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, before I was disturbed, uhm, what I meant to –

Laughter

Mr Fube: Yes, I think I flow well.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, that is his style of speaking, please, give him an opportunity.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, my concern is on the change in the Education Policy, which will have a bearing on the enrolment, retention as well as progression rate. This being a boarding school, and looking at the radius that may be covered – I mean, Hon. Chanda’s constituency is next to mine and that is why I know the challenges there – what is the projected capacity of this school in terms of uhm pupils that will be enrolled?

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, you see, they get concerned about trivial things, small things.

Mr Nkombo: Madam, fortunately, I have the information regarding the question that was earlier asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa to the effect that we gathered information that related to Muchinga Province only. So, to satisfy him now, instead of him coming to the office, let me say that from the schools that we intend to build, which we carried over from the previous administration, Muchinga Province was going to benefit a total of nine schools in the following districts: Shiwang’andu, Lavushimanda, Isoka, Chama, Nakonde, Mpika, Kanchibiya, Chinsali and Mafinga.

Madam Speaker, coming to the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi, I request that he gives us time to come up with the actual starting capacity because I do not have that detail. Suffice it to say, as I stated in my earlier answer, that we are taking the community mode of schools, and because schools grow as the population grows, we are very hopeful that as the demand manifests, the schools are also going to start increasing in capacity.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, in Kanchibiya, there are three or more secondary schools which are not completed because some people somewhere thought it was not wise to complete them. If the hon. Minister goes into a good number of rural constituencies, including Nyimba, he will find pupils going for weekly boarding, and that has been a source of early pregnancies. We usually talk about the girl and forget about the person who impregnates her. We have never looked at that situation hence it affecting us so much.

Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister is the one in charge of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) – I know we are doing this in Nyimba, but maybe others are not –does he not think it wise, for the schools in Kanchibiya which are not completed, but pupils are still going there, to give a directive to start building uhm …

Laughter

r Menyani Zulu: … the boarding facilities for our children so that we do not have a problem with boarding space and do away with the early pregnancies?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I admire the creativity of my colleague from Nyimba to sneak in a question for the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development when the matter under discussion is under the Ministry of Education. However, since we are one cabinet, let me say to the hon. Member that under the Decentralisation Policy and the Devolution of Power, the identification of projects such as the one being lamented on now, the boarding facilities for children, must ordinarily emanate from the ward, where the schools are. So, to be crystal clear to the hon. Member, if those requests come, we shall surely approve them under the CDF because that has been our state of mind; that the desires of the people must manifest at the lowest organ of political order, which is the ward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me also confirm that as part of our interventions in responding to the plight of the weekly boarders in Kanchibiya, we are starting to look at construction of boarding facilities in selected schools. However, looking at the size of the problem that we have, this would still be a drop in the ocean. This is the more reason I have brought this question to ask if the Government has plans to construct a boarding school in Kanchibiya.

Madam Speaker, the problem is that even if the Government has availed scholarships for boarders, in the whole Kanchibiya, we would find only three students going to boarding schools outside Kanchibiya. This is the more reason we need this facility so that monies allocated for boarding school scholarships under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is channelled towards this institution within Kanchibiya.

Madam Speaker, as my colleague, the hon. Member for Nyimba said, we have schools like John Mubanga Day Secondary School, Copper Day Secondary School, and Kabinga Day Secondary School, which are incomplete. Some of the workers who worked on these projects have not been paid to this day, and works were abandoned. If we said that we use the CDF to complete these structures, we would have to move the whole CDF to these structures. This is the more reason we are knocking on the door of the Central Government.

Madam Speaker, coming to my question, I would be grateful if in the shortest possible time, we are given the road map as to when stakeholder engagement will be so that we quickly move towards identifying the location for the boarding school.

Madam Speaker, that is my comment. I am grateful to learn that there is already a plan to bring a boarding school to Kanchibiya Constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: That was a comment. I am sure you agreed that you will meet one of these days. I do not know if the hon. Minister wants to say something.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I want to just remind my hon. Colleague that his lamentations are a function of legacy matters. He lined-up the schools that have not been completed, some of which may have commenced not in the immediate previous administration but the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD). In his speeches to the House, the President has made an undertaking around the issue of schools that by the next couple of years, we should complete all the projects that were commenced by the MMD and the Patriotic Front (PF) in order for us to arrive at the net effect of how much the need will be at that point.

Madam Speaker, coming to the question of channelling the bursary facility to boarding facilities in the constituency, I think that is a matter that we can discuss. It is not strange to me because there are many constituencies that have money in their accounts because they do not have enough learners to go to boarding school. I can confirm to the hon. Member that Cabinet will come up with a circular. Maybe, I should take advantage of this to say that a circular will be brought.

Madam Speaker, as a result of that situation, there were lamentations from many hon. Members that they previously had to train nurses. The leader of that crusade was Hon. Muchima from Mwinilunga. The hon. Members asked if the Government could include nursing learners on that programme. It was agreed by Cabinet that they be included because what ended up happening was that as a result of some learners not qualifying, some hon. Members of Parliament started stressing and sponsoring those nurses from their pockets. So, this Administration is going to respond positively to the needs of the local people. If that becomes the case, the hon. Member should just write a note for variation. Money should not be allowed to be in an account unutilised when needs have been identified.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister did indicate that Kanchibiya will get a boarding secondary school in the third quarter of this year and that it will take three years for that school to be completed. He also said that stakeholders are supposed to sit and find the site. Currently, they have not found that site. What instructions is the hon. Minister giving to the people of Kanchibiya? When should they find this site?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, it must be understood that Kanchibiya is a relatively newly-created district. It was falling under Mpika not so long ago. It is so new to the effect that under three months ago, we went to do the ground breaking for the civic centre in that place. We are still in the processes of establishing the district administration office in that constituency. The same applies to constituencies like Mwembezhi, Chikankata and Luena, that were recently established.

So, hon. Member for Mkushi South, this engagement is a Government programme and it will happen much sooner than later, working in liaison with all the stakeholders again because we are consultative. There are about four or five chiefs in that area. We have to speak to them just the way we consulted them on the establishment of the district administration office which they elected to be around Chalabesa against the argument that it should go to Kasongo. So, it is something that the hon. Member should not have sleepless nights over. We will do the consultation and establish a site soonest.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, if I got the hon. Minister well, this project going to be funded by the Zambia Education Enhancement Project (ZEEP) World Bank project. If this is so, experience has it that these projects have a component of community participation. With the removal of the Parent-Teacher Association (PTA) funds, communities are now tempted not to participate in projects that have a community contribution component. Will the ministry consider funding this project 100 per cent like the way the CDF projects are funded and remove the community contribution component?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in my answer, before I listed the number of schools that we intend to build in Muchinga, I was very clear and I will repeat what I said. I said that the community mode of construction will continue to be used. Of course, lessons there have been learnt. With the hon. Member’s concern of the PTA funds having been excluded from the contribution towards the project, I can only assure him that we will fill the gaps in more ways than one. He knows very well that under the CDF which has been broadened both in size and extent, from K1.6 million which was not there to K28.3 million which is there now, and out of that K28.3 million that is there, 60 per cent going to community projects, I can confirm to him that it is within the qualification realm that we can fund this from the CDF.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

BILL

FIRST READING

THE TEACHING PROFESSION (Amendment), 2023

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo) (on behalf of the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Teaching Profession (Amendment) Bill No. 4 of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the object of this Bill is to amend the Teaching Profession Act 2013 so as to –

1. revise the functions of the Teaching Council of Zambia; and
2. provide for matters connected, or incidental, to the forgoing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Education, Science and Technology. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 22^nd March, 2023.Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

_______

MOTIONS

TRANSFORM ZAMBIA INTO A TWENTY-FOUR-HOUR ECONOMY

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to put in place modalities–

Rev.Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, sincere apologies to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa for disturbing his debate.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order pursuant to Standing Orders204,on parliamentary decorum and etiquette.

Madam Speaker, in this august House, we do not expect people to chew gum like the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. I would like to find out if chewing gum is allowed on the Floor of the House.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Maybe, he has just swallowed it…

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: … because I have been watching him.

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I have sweets before me, but do we eat sweets or do we just swallow them? There is a thin line between chewing gum and sucking sweets. However, the standard procedure is that we do not chew gum in the House. So, if the hon. Minister is chewing gum, may he dispose it of. He is showing that he has already swallowed it.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Okay, let us make progress.

May the hon. Member for Kamfinsa continue.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much once again. I beg to move that this House urges the Government to put in place modalities for the transformation of Zambia into a twenty-four-hour economy.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I want to begin by thanking you most sincerely for allowing this Motion to be tabled on the Floor of this august House. I also thank the Acting Clerk of the National Assembly and his entire team, the Research Department, for providing the right input in bringing this conversation to Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely because every time I have brought Motions before this august House, your office has been noble in allowing these Motions to be debated.

Madam Speaker, after I left university, my first professional assignment was at a company called Luanshya Copper Mines. At Luanshya Copper Mines, which is applicable to all the mining houses on the Copperbelt and I believe it is the practice in the North-Western, copper production is done in shifts. What normally happens is that from 0800hours to a certain number of hours, there will be copper production. Immediately that copper is produced, there will be another shift of workers who will be employed to undertake the next shift.

Madam Speaker, what we have learnt over the years from the mining houses in Zambia is that copper production, which is the backbone of our economy, is actually anchored on atwenty-four-hour economy. Copper is not produced only for eight hours of the day. What is produced in a shift of eight hours multiplied by three is basically a twenty-four-hour economy. As I stand here, I want to draw this august House to the fact that there are already certain sectors, and a specific example is mining, where copper production is actually anchored on a twenty-four-hour economy. What that means is that we can draw lessons from sectors that require the right levels of productivity to ensure that we produce enough for our country.

Madam Speaker, the point I am making is that this Motion that I have brought today to this august House is not about whether we need to have a twenty-four-hour economy. I am very confident that this august House agrees. I think all of us agree that, yes, we need to move into that direction. The argument is about the modalities. The conversation that we should be having is about the modalities the Government must put in place, and I thank the Research Department because the wording of the Motion is very clear.

Madam Speaker, we have all agreed that Zambia needs a twenty-four-hour economy. What is a twenty-four-hour economy? It is basically an economy that allows three shifts in a day. The first workers work for eight hours, and immediately they knock off, there is demand for goods and services and there must be workers to attend to those who come in the next shift. After those knock off, we have learnt in so many other countries that there is another set of workers who are employed to attend to those who want goods and services at a later time.

Madam Speaker, the issue is not whether we need a twenty-four-hour economy or not. The issue is how soon can that be done, and what modalities the Government can put in place, and what steps it can take to put in place these modalities that will actualise the idea of a twenty-four-hour economy. For those who may not be aware, there are countries within Africa that have actually piloted this initiative. In Uganda, in the city of Kampala, they are already piloting the process of a twenty-four-hour economy. In Kenya, they are already piloting the concept of a twenty-four-hour economy. The idea is that we cannot have productivity only during the day. The idea is that we need productivity beyond the normal working hours.

 

Madam Speaker, as I was coming to this august House, I was very confident that if there is one Motion that will be supported by everyone, it is a Motion that deals with the economy of our country and that deals with creating new jobs because, currently, we only create jobs for people who report for work at 0700 hours. We need jobs for people who are ready to work after working hours. Now, what are the modalities? For people to report for work at 2000 hours, we need to improve security. For people in the tourism sector to be able to receive people from outside who will be able to go around the country and support the many other sub-sectors, we need security. So, this Motion requires the urgent attention of the Ministry of Home Affairs and internal Security, the Ministry of Commerce and Trade and Industry–

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kamfinsa. There is a point of order from the hon. Member for Kalabo Central. What is the point of order?

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No.65 which provides for relevance in debate.

Madam Speaker, I did not want to disturb the hon. Member who I trust very much. However, I find what he is saying in relation to his Motion quite displaced and misplaced. The Motion is printed in black on a green paper.

Mr Miyutu searched through his phone.

Mr Kampyongo: So, you do not even know!

Mr Miyutu: Wait. I want to read it exactly as it appears so that I am not –

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: It reads:

“Transform Zambia into a 24 hour economy: That this House urges the Government to put in place modalities for transforming Zambia into a 24 hour economy.”

Mr B. Mpundu: Modalities!

Mr Miyutu: The catch word here is ’24 hour’.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kalabo Central. Probably, you can debate instead of raising a point of order.

The hon. Member for Kamfinsa can continue but, please, as you continue, do not bring the Research Department into your debate. They were just helping you formulate the Motion. It was an administrative matter. It is your Motion so, debate it as such.

Proceed with your debate.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, before I was disturbed, I was emphasising a point without any contradiction that there are two things in the Motion. There is a word that needs to be underlined and it is ‘modalities’. There are also words that need to be underlined in the Motion and these are, ‘putting in place’.

Madam Speaker, when a policy, a thought or an idea has been agreed upon through national consensus, when stakeholders or the business community have said, we are ready to run shops beyond normal working hours, what remains therefore, are modalities. This is why this Motion is dealing with modalities. I was emphasising, before the interruption, that we have sectors that are ready to provide lessons. When you are implementing an idea, you need to draw lessons. The lessons that are relevant to this conversation are the lessons we have learnt from the mining sector.

Madam Speaker, I also mentioned earlier on that we have countries that have piloted this initiative. The idea is, with the national consensus on what we need to do, for municipal services to be provided even in the evening. Sometimes we have workers who only want to report for work at 0800 hours when they can clean the streets of our cities in the evening so that by the time morning comes, the city is clean. Municipal services can be provided in the evening …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kang’ombe: … if we have the right modalities. The modalities I am referring to are security, change in culture in the thinking of our people. If our people believe that they can only work during the day, then we need to raise awareness. That is the role of the Government. So, as I stand here, this Motion is about our economy and the people out there who are saying they feel it can happen and can it be piloted. There are cities in Zambia like Lusaka, Ndola and Livingstone that are ready to pilot this project if the Government says it can be piloted. That is why I am standing here. This is a Motion about creating new jobs, about new incomes and allows us to do what should be done.

If we do not put modalities in place today, Madam Speaker, we will behere that there is national consensus and we have agreed. It will not happen. We have to pilot it. We have to put modalities in place. I am confident that hon. Members of Parliament that are gathered here today, are aware that this is not our conversation, but for the members of the public.

Madam Speaker, that is why when we bring Motions here, it is not about the 156 hon. Members. It is about the country. So, I am confident, even as I wind up my debate, that both the left and the right sides of the House will agree with me that the issue is not whether we should transform Zambia into a 24-hour economy or not. That has already been done. We have agreed that we need a 24-hour economy. What we have not agreed on is how soon the modalities could be put in place.

So, Madam Speaker, I am grateful on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa for the opportunity to share my thoughts representing the business community out there and the many people that are saying:“Can we try this?”: “Can modalities be put in place?”. Once we do this, we will create new jobs, we will have municipal services done in the evening, we will have clean cities and so much progress will be made over a short period of time. If we do not this, our neighbours will have the urge that they are supposed to have. Zimbabwe will start producing goods and services that will be cheaper. Those goods will come into our economy and we will be complaining, yet we have an opportunity today to produce enough for local consumption and for export.

I thank you, Madam Speaker, as I look at the time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I would like to speak now.

Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chilubi an opportunity to second the Motion.

Madam Speaker, I will ride on what the Mover of the Motion has already said that the Motion before this House is non-controversial because examples are bound in Zambia. Let me give an example of what the mover of the Motion mentioned. In 1973, we had a 24-hour economy in the mines where Zambia, at that point, because of the eight hours division of the 24-hour economy, produced 750,000 metric tonnes of copper which was under Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) then. If you compare 1973 to today, today we are still producing around 800,000 metric tonnes of copper which will show that, that 24-hour economy tried in the mines, encouraged high productivity.

Madam Speaker, the Motion before us is non-controversial because it is meant to stir economic growth. When we look at documents like the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), the Vision 2030and many others that control the drive of our economy, you will find that most of them are speaking to the issue of value addition.

Madam Speaker, may I be protected. There is a lot of noise that is disturbing my ears this side (pointing at the UPND Bench).

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, there is just a lot of whispering. Hon. Members, as we consult, let us speak very softly. If we cannot speak softly, then maybe, we can step out, have a chat, consult and then come back so that we can hear the hon. Member’s points.

May the hon. Member for Chilubi, continue.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I was saying that many documents are supportive of the Motion before us because they are encouraging value addition. Zambia is well endowed with natural resources. We have raw materials that are yet to be converted into either primary or secondary industry processes but that demands a night economy and workforce.  This means that when we factor into production, you will find that the 24-hour economy that we are promoting now is going to take base.

Madam Speaker, the modalities we are talking about today, putting them in context, need to be anchored on a legal and policy framework. Currently, we know that there are companies that are being run twenty-four-hours. Filing stations are an example of a twenty-four-hour economy and many others. However, that is not a policy spread to different companies that are involved in production.

Madam Speaker, I know that those who are opposed to the idea will bring into the debate, among other things, that it may cause noise, traffic, alcohol consumption and an increase in crime. However, research has been done. When we look at the cities which do not sleep, we see that among them and on top is Cairo in Egypt. I think one of the noisiest cities in the world, which is among those that do not sleep and ranked eighteenth in terms of night life and productivity is New York. It is neither linked nor anywhere near Cairo which is in Africa.

Madam Speaker, other reasons that people advance are natural circadian rhythms which are associated with things like metabolic problems and sleeping disorders. However, that can be cured by factoring in shifts which the mover of the Motion said should be divided into eight hours each.

Madam Speaker, when we are promoting the twenty-four-hours economy policy, an environment to produce more is created, especially if modalities are put in place through a sound legal policy framework. Consequently, an environment for better quality and job creation is created. Currently, everybody is depending on the Government to employ people. The Government can only employ so many. When we look at the Government, we see that it depends on the Budget, which it preaches about.

Madam Speaker, I would like to demonstrate that 53 per cent of the National Budget goes to paying salaries and other things for those in the Civil Service. If we encourage a twenty-four-hour economy, it will encourage the private sector to come on board and lift the pressure off the Government by employing citizens who have different skills in different fields.

Madam Speaker, I would be doing a disservice to this Motion if I did not state that apart from just job creation, the twenty-four-hour economy promotes production. As I have already underscored, it also brings about better performance, higher levels of production, quality service and better products.

Madam Speaker, I would like to say to the hon. Members of Parliament who desire to contribute to debate on this Motion that it is a non-controversial Motion. If we mean well and we are supportive, especially of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), we should embrace this. At the end of the day, as we talk about job creation, we will be walking the talk as we will be creating jobs, which cannot just be triggered by the Government machinery, but the private sector also. Currently, most of our people are in informal employment. If they are in informal employment, the Government is the dream facilitator of the economy. The Government can only regulate and facilitate for an environment in which every citizen can find his/her foot for survival.

Madam Speaker, our submission is that this Motion is going to help in more areas than we desire. Zambia, which we call poor, is ranked number four in Africa in terms of natural resources, if my memory serves me right. This means that as a country, we should have tapped into those natural resources we have not been utilising properly and adding value to them, and the only route is the twenty-four-hour economy policy being suggested.

Madam Speaker, what is missing are the modalities that should invite the legal and policy framework.

Madam Speaker, at this point, I rest my case.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. That was the seconder. Is the Motion opposed?

Mr Nkombo: Yes.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Bweengwa an opportunity to debate the Motion on “Transforming Zambia into a twenty-four-hour economy.” The Motion which has been brought on the Floor of this House is very good except that it is a copycat. It was on 29^th September, 2022, when the President said at a conference that:

“A twenty-four-hour economy will Enhance National Productivity.

President Hakainde Hichilema addresses delegates during the first ever China-Zambia Trade and Investment Forum at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre in Lusaka.

The Government is actively considering the prospect of introducing a twenty-four-hour economy in Zambia, President Hakainde Hichilema has announced.

To this effect, President Hakainde Hichilema has directed the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, to ensure the country’s security system was water-tight to enable factories and other business to operate day and night shifts.”

Madam Speaker, this copycat Motion which has just come on the Floor of this House is not something we can support because as the Government, we are already implementing it. As the Government of the United Party for National Development (UPND), the President already announced that –

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, thank you for granting me this point of order. The hon. Member on the Floor is calling this a copycat Motion. In his wisdom, this particular idea came from His Excellency the President when he was at a forum.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to call this a copycat Motion when the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto which was launched in 2021 actually provides for a twenty-four-hour economy? Is he in order to mislead the nation that this idea originated from the President, yet in the PF Manifesto which was launched in 2021 provides for a twenty-four-hour economy? We are ready to lay the PF Manifesto on the Table so that he can see exactly that this idea did not come yesterday, but was there as early as 2021.

I see your ruling, Madam.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. The Motion is on the Floor of the House to be debated. The idea could have been started by anyone, but right now, what we are considering is the Motion on the Floor. So, we cannot describe it as a copycat Motion. So, the hon. Member for Bweengwa is out of order for calling the Motion a copycat. Hon. Member for Bweengwa, you may continue.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, yes, I may not argue because I have never gone through the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto. I have never even seen it. During the ten-year rule of the PF, I never heard the President talk about the twenty-four-hour economy even here in Parliament when he addressed the nation, and not in any speech. We only heard about this matter last year when the President addressed the delegates at the conference and announced the twenty-four- hour economy. That was the only time I heard about the twenty-four-hour economy.

It is already in the pipeline. Why should it even be subjected to voting? I do not think we can vote for something which the Government is already implementing. The New Dawn Government is already on it. The Patriotic Front Government failed to implement it. We are busy putting things in order to make sure that the pronouncement, which was made by the President, is actualised as soon as possible.

Otherwise, this motion, Madam Speaker, I will not say is a copy-cut, but that the mover is trying to go through the steps of the President who already made the announcement. So, I can simply describe the drafter of this Motion as ciiyanyo. That is what we say in my language.

Hon. Government Members: Ciiyanyo!

Hon. Government Members: Meaning?

Mr Michelo: Ciiyanyo means copying or trying to imitate exactly what your friend is doing. That is the meaning of ciiyanyo. That is what the mover of this Motion is trying to bring on the Floor of this House. Otherwise, the President and the Government are already on it. We are not ready to vote for something which we are already implementing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to make a few comments on the Motion ably moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa and seconded by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi.

Madam Speaker, the Motion is seeking to urge the Government to put modalities in place to implement a 24-hour economy. I am happy that the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa acknowledges that the President has made lamentations about the same. Our role here, as an institution which offers oversight functions, is to ensure that the Government implements what it promises. So, there is nothing wrong with the Motion that has been moved by the hon. Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, this brings me to one point I want to make. When Motions come to this august House, we must remove political lenses. We, as the Patriotic Front (PF), have it in the manifesto, and the President has acknowledged that it is something that is viable. So, what do we do? We are part of the Government and what the hon. Member who moved the Motion is doing is just the right thing.

Madam Speaker, I want to remember one Motion which was moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central where he urged the Government to adjust the amount of foreign exchange that should be deposited in banks. The Motion was described as a “brought in dead” (BID). A few months later, it had to take the President to invite the business community, which went and sat with him at State House. What was among the resolutions? The same matter of adjusting the threshold of foreign exchange that can be deposited. So, are we moving at the same pace with the President? These are questions we should be asking. The President acknowledged that, yes, this must be done, as presented by the business community, but here, we had hon. Members describing the Motion as BID. So, let us learn to remove political lenses as we look at matters when they are brought here.

Madam Speaker, the President is lamenting about the lack of hard work and the need to enhance production. So, how do we achieve that? The mover of the Motion just gave an example of what happens in the mining sector where production is twenty-four hours. We have seen companies that are in production 24 hours a day. Let us take, for example, (paused) –

Mr Nkombo interjected.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

It is not a point of order. The hon. Member is debating. Let us pay attention to what is happening. 

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

He was still thinking about the Kazungula/Sesheke Road, if it is him who said that.

Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, what I am saying is: How can we double production? Take, for example, a local company like Trade Kings Group which has been expanding. Indigenous Zambians started it and it is now producing different products. It cannot do that in eight hours. So, there are lessons that we can learn.

Madam Speaker, further, we are talking about enhancing value chains. We are saying that let us not get our Zambian natural capital and export it in raw form. We need to add value so that we can have finished products. That is the area where we can create jobs. Job creation occurs in the private sector. So, suggestions coming by this Motion are the way to go. Employing twenty or 2,000 teachers is normal routine work of any Government. That is not job creation. So, if we are talking about serious job creation, it is Motions such as this one that we should be encouraging.

Madam Speaker, what has been done so far? The hon. Leader of the Opposition talked about this issue being in the PF Manifesto on page 9, where it says:

“Make Zambia a 24-hour economy thereby creating three shifts to enhance job creation”

Madam Speaker, we are all speaking the same language. If you have been moving around Lusaka’s Central Business District (CBD) and a few selected cities on the Copperbelt, you may have seen cameras installed by the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, which has been requested by the President to put modalities in place to ensure that there is security to cover this development. There is a lot that has been done, meaning that all our public facilities can be monitored twenty-four hours a day by law enforcement agencies. Those are the cameras you have seen. Our roads and our shopping malls can be monitored 24 hours seven days a week. In short, some modalities are already in place. We just need to do more; what should local authorities do as regards changing regulations that limit people’s movements and trading hours at night through local authorities’ legislation. These are the things that we should be doing. So, in short, I think the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is already moving where security infrastructure to facilitate the 24-hour economy is concerned.

Madam Speaker, the hard work that the President is talking about is the way to go. So, we need agro productivity like we used to have in the past. We used to have the Zam-horticultural products. Those are the things that we should be thinking of bringing back to support the agricultural sector. We would enhance the food supply chain. If an institution working for eight hours, for example, doubled its working capacity, if it had twenty people working, there would be a need for it to double that number for the three shifts to be implemented. So, you create jobs like that. You cannot create jobs in the public sector. Employing doctors is normal routine work of the Government, as the population grows.

So, the Motion moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, Madam Speaker, is something we can all support, if, indeed, we are supporting what the president is calling for; hard work. Nothing else is going to transform the economy of our nation.

Madam Speaker, to our colleagues who are thinking that this was started by the PF, we are all speaking the same language. We are all Zambians and want to see Zambia a better place for all of us and for generations that are coming behind us to come and enjoy and appreciate that there were leaders who were thinking ahead.

So, this Motion, Madam Speaker, is supported by all of us on your left and we expect our colleagues to remove the political lens as we consider this Motion.

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: Order, your time is up.

Mr Kampyongo: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Health has indicated a point of order.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I was indicating my intention to debate the Motion and not to raise a point of order.

Madam Speaker: Okay!

I will call upon the hon. Ministers to debate the matter later. Firstly, let us allow the backbenchers to debate the Motion. Independent hon. Members have not yet had an opportunity to debate. So, I call upon the hon. Member for Nkana.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me an opportunity to equally add a voice to the debate on this Motion that has ably been moved by my counterpart from Kamfinsa, Hon. Christopher Kang’ombe, who is urging the Government to transform Zambia into a twenty-four-hour economy.

Madam Speaker, I am afraid that I will sound monotonous and like a broken record because almost everything that is to be said has already been said. Worse still, for those who would want to oppose, there is literally nothing to say. However, we would like to be on record, and that is why I want to add a few remarks to the debate on the Motion.

Madam Speaker, it is important for us to simply understand this. For the benefit of those who may be following this conversation, a twenty-four-hour economy literally means operating or trading twenty-four hours a day. That is day and night. When we discuss this Motion, it is pertinent to answer or rather ask ourselves a few questions. It is not strange to ask that we trade or act as a twenty-four-hour economy? No! It is not strange because this phenomenon is happening in many countries.

Madam Speaker, there are many hon. Members of Parliament who may have bought dot.com cars ‘online’ and have had to travel to Kariakoo, Tanzania to clear their vehicles. When you visit the city, you will find that our colleagues in Tanzania operate from morning, and throughout the night. So, it is not strange because our neighbouring countries are implementing it. Other examples are South Africa and Botswana. Every country you go to today has a twenty-four-hour economy because that is the only way to create opportunities.

Madam Speaker, why do we need a twenty-four-hour economy? We need a twenty-four-hour economy so that we can address issues of productivity. For a small economy such as Zambia, the only way we can advance or improve our economy is if we are productive. There is no better way to be productive other than to increase productivity hours. The only way we can increase productivity hours is if we operate throughout the day and night.

Madam Speaker, is it strange to do that? No, it is not strange. In fact, Zambia is operating a twenty-four-hour economy except in facets. It is not full-scale. My hon. Colleagues who earlier debated on the Floor gave examples of places where twenty-four hour economies are operating. In the mining sector, for people who come from the Copperbelt, we are even used to it. We know that our people go to the mining companies in the night.

Madam Speaker, running a twenty-four our economy is not strange. For some of us who travel throughout the night going back to our constituencies need to refuel at some point. Now, we can imagine how stranded we would be if filling stations started to close after late hours.

The transport sector, Madam Speaker, is another example that operates twenty-four hours. Truckers were banned from driving at night beyond 2100 hours but any other person is able to travel overnight. So, it is not strange to suggest that Zambia introduces a full-scale twenty-four-hour economy.

Madam Speaker, we are basically saying that the wheels and the engine of the economy must never let to go to sleep. That is what basically, Kang’ombe or Hon. Kang’ombe …

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: … is urging the Government to do. Hon. Kang’ombe. I call him Kang’ombe because he is my colleague. So, you can understand.

Madam Speaker, in simple terms, this Motion is basically reminding my hon. Colleagues in Parliament that they cannot allow the engines and wheels of the economy to go to sleep in a country as small in size of an economy as Zambia grappling with issues of unemployment.

Madam Speaker, what that means is that for any given position, we would have created two shifts, for those who would work from morning to evening and those who would work throughout the night. So, we would have addressed the issues of unemployment if we improved or worked on the issue of a twenty-four-hour economy. Do we need it?

Madam Speaker, I am glad that Hon. Kasauta from Bweengwa Parliamentary Constituency actually brought up an issue of the principal, the number one man, having acknowledged the need for a 24-hour economy. So, I do not even understand why my elder brother would want, then, to speak against the views of the principal. It is unheard of. When the President makes a pronouncement to implement a 24-hour economy, you cannot stand in this Parliament and object to what the President would want to achieve. It would be a contradiction of what the President envisions. This economy needs to grow.

Mr Kasauta rose.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kasauta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order has been raised.

Mr Kasauta: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member debating on the Floor of the House should not mislead the nation. I said that the President …

Mr Kang’ombe: What is your point of order?

Mr Kasauta: My point of order is: Is the President …

Interruptions

Hon Opposition Member: Which standing order are you referring to?

Mr Kasauta: Standing Order No. 65.

Madam Speaker, in my debate, I said that the President had announced plans to turn Zambia into a twenty-four-hour economy last year in September, and that his Government was already implementing what is currently on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to mislead this country that I am against the pronouncement made by the principal last year …

Interruptions

Mr Kasauta: Hey, can you shut up!

Madam Speaker: Order! Order!

Interruptions

Mr Kasauta: Shut up!       

Mr Kang’ombe: So, what is the point of order?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can we have order!

Mr. Kasauta: I will beat you!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Can we tone down, please. We are all one family.

Proceed, hon. Member for Bweengwa.

Mr Kasauta: Madam Speaker, in my debate I said that the President had announced plans to establish a twenty-four economy last year, and it is the reason I asked why this Motion was being brought to the House when the Government was already implementing that policy. It is already being undertaken by the New Dawn regime. We are working.

Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana in order to say that I am against the President …?

Hon. Opposition Member: Is the President your relative?

Laughter

Hon Opposition Member: Emotions teyabukaya! Iwe!

Mr Kasauta: … when I said that the President is already implementing that policy with his New Dawn Government.

Is he in order to mislead this country?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

In fact, this idea of bringing up the President when you debate is not allowed by our standing orders. As we debate, we are not supposed to bring in the name of the President to tilt or influence the debate. I will refer hon. Members to Standing Order 65, 2 (c) which says,

“A member who is debating shall not

(c) - use the President’s name to influence debate.”

So, hon. Members, as we debate, let us keep the President out, and debate based on factual issues. Bring out points without referring to the name of the President.

Both hon. Members were out of order.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance, especially that the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa was out of order.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I was stating that –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, both of you!

The duty of finding hon. Members out of order resides in the PresidingOfficer, not in the hon. Members.

You may continue.

Mr B. Mpundu:Madam Speaker, well guided.

Madam Speaker, let me wind-up by asking a question. What, therefore, is needed to make Zambia a twenty-four-hour economy? The mover of the Motion brought this Motion to this House, so we can come up with modalities on how we can make this a reality. Like I stated, this is already happening in different facets. All that the mover of the Motion is urging the Government is to make it a reality at full scale. However, the question is: What do we need to make this happen. What we need is to enhance security. Have we started working towards that? Yes, we have because to enhance security, all we need are surveillance cameras everywhere. I think Hon. Jack Mwiimbu would agree with me that the police have erected surveillance cameras around the country, and the pilot project was done in Kitwe along the line of rail. So, the effort is already on paper and in action. We also need street lighting, not even for a twenty-four-hour economy, but for the sake of security, our streets need to be lit. This will help the people to trade and go about with business. We also need the presence of the police throughout the corners of this country for us to able to trade for twenty-four hours.

Madam Speaker, I come from Luapula. It is not strange for us to operate in the night because actually, in the night is when we go fishing. I did not mean we fly in the night.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: Certain people think that I am talking about witchcraft; no. I am basically stating that we, who come from Luapula, actually play in the night because we go fishing in the night. So,we have a twenty-four-hour economy in Mununga where I come from.

Madam Speaker, I just wanted to be on record for supporting this very progressive Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Fishing and mining.

Laughter

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me time to add a word to the debate on the Motion brought by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa.

Madam Speaker, you will realise that in life, many people want to make headlines. When you make headlines, you want to be seen to be the originator of something or to have brought up an ideology. So, you come to a public place like Parliament because you know that you have the leeway to talk the way you want to.

Madam Speaker, people say some people waste taxpayers’ time, and this is part of wasting taxpayers’ time. I say so because I want to qualify one statement.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, this is debate; he is making his point. You will respond.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress. We are wasting time.

Hon. Member as you debate, we are not here to waste taxpayers’ time. We are working. Whatever the debate is, we are all working. You may proceed.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, when one is debating, one has one’s own opinion; challenge me. It is better for my brothers to ask the Government how far it has gone in implementing the measures to make the economy a twenty-four-hour economy, than bring a Motion so that it appears that you are the one who brought a Motion of working for twenty-four hours. The Government is already working on that. On Friday, I will ask Her Honour the Vice-President or the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security how far the Government has gone to make sure that there is security in this country, although it is already doing that, rather than bring a Motion. When we reject the Motion, you will say that we like rejecting Motions. When you bring a Motion, why should it be seconded by yourselves? Bring it to us the Backbenchersso that we can share ideas and second it together because all of us are Backbenchers.

Madam Speaker, the intention of this Motion is not to make the country run for twenty-four hours. Its intention is to make it known that our colleagues are also proposing Motions. However, the Government is already implementing this –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mwembezhi! This Motion was duly processed and allowed by my office. So, let us debate on the issues.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, initially, I talked about wasting taxpayers’ money and time. Out of respect of being Members of Parliament, some issues are processed and not that there is substance. There is no substance in this issue because the fact of the matter is that the Government is already in the process of implementing what is being proposed. Since the Government is in the process of implementing what is proposed, what we should ask is how far it has gone.

Madam Speaker, at Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), Nampundwe Mine, Zambia Sugar Plc and Trade Kings, there are already three shifts. So, what are you talking about? The police and the staff at the hospitals and filling stations already work for twenty-four hours. So, what do you want to justify? What we can do is ask the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security or Her Honour the Vice-President as to what the Government is doing to ensure that there is enough security at Lusaka City Centre so that what has been actualised already starts running. We can ask them if the cameras the Government has put in Kitwe are enough to cater for what is being proposed unlike bringing a Motion so that we debate the modalities. This thing is ill-placed.

Madam Speaker, the ideal situation would have been to ask the Government what it has done because it is already in the process of implementing what is being proposed. Reinventing the wheel and appearing like we are starting afresh so that tomorrow it is published in the newspaper that one Backbencher urged the Government to start working twenty-four hours is neither here nor there. Even here at Parliament, the people who stand by the gate work for twenty-four hours. So, what are we talking about?

Madam Speaker, some of these Motions must be rejected and not presented on the Floor of this House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kang’ombe for bringing this Motion, and Hon. Fube for seconding it.

Madam Speaker, this Motion has excited the sitting President, His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, and the former President–

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Please, do not bring the names of the Presidents in your debate. Just debate the issues.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, both the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the Patriotic Front (PF) are excited about this motion as it demonstrates continuity, and I will ask the question to the Hon. Minister of Home affairs and Internal Security: How many more cameras do you have to put in this country to add to what the PF put to complete this modality of installing cameras? Is there a problem in bringing a motion to urge the Government to implement their idea or to actualise it?

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Mr Kafwaya: There is no problem. I am shocked at the revelation that when the Government promulgates an idea, the Government should not be talked to. We should just watch and say it will happen whenever it is going to happen. This is backwardness.

Madam Speaker, they should transform the environment so as to create it into one that supports a twenty-four-hour economy, which President Hakainde wants to see. So, what do we do to transform it? It is to improve security. Let us urge our hon. Minister to improve security. All the faces of security and rapid responses must be seen to be on top of things. Another point is to improve communication so that even when there is an incident, for example in Mtendere, the police should be informed quickly. We should have a situation where the Government responds to incidences as the economy moves on.

Madam Speaker, at a time when the economy is so troubled, most of the things we do as leaders must be demand-driven. Let someone tell me that there is no need for jobs in this country and that there is no need for business. I will be shocked. The UPND Government is desperate to create jobs and business opportunities. Why then would one say that this issue should not be undertaken because it is coming from Hon. Kang’ombe and seconded by Hon. Fube so the Government should not act? Why then would one say that because the former President mentioned it, then it should not be done or because the idea was mentioned in some meeting by the current President, it should not be done? I think we ought to become serious.

Madam Speaker, another modality is to improve health service delivery to ensure that in areas where there is primary health care which closes at 1700hrs, working hours should be extended to the whole day and night. In case there is an incident somewhere, it is easier for that worker working in the night or for that trader or for that customer transacting business in the night to access health care.

Madam Speaker, I see no reason, whatsoever, a motion so well put can be rejected by anyone who thinks for the country or by anyone who thinks for those graduates who are looking jobs but cannot find them because the job market is saturated. I see no reason anyone should stand up and say: “this is a bad motion”, when in fact even when the Government was talking about this motion, they were not talking about the modalities but talking about the 24 hours. Then a good hon. Member of Parliament comes and says: “Look at the modalities that are hindering this progress, and put them in place.” Honestly one should come and say we should not do anything about it. Let us think about how many jobs will be created. I think that the livelihood of the people of Zambia will be improved.

Madam Speaker, as for me, I will only thank the UPND Government for continuing the legacy of the PF and I say so because this legacy is clear. One can tell from how many cameras have been installed and from the PF manifesto. For the UPND Government to have continued with what the PF started is a good idea, which I support. I cannot say because it is UPND, I will not support. This must be supported by all well-meaning Zambians and representatives of Zambians, who are in dire need of employment.

Madam Speaker. I thank you.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to add a word to the debate on the motion and also to thank the mover and the seconder of the motion on the floor. On account of principle, I will not take long with my debate, and I will not support this motion.

Madam Speaker, for any economy to do very well, it needs principles, which the Patriotic Front) PF Government did not have. There is no need to create modalities to transform Zambia into a twenty-four-hour economy because if all things were equal, this issue should have been seamless, where the economy can move without any triggers. Our hon. Colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) now have the energy to debate about such issues, there are things that we need to look at as human beings for us to improve how we manage our issues. Our President, although you have advised that we should not talk about these issues, is on record of having said that the corruption of the past, the present, and that of the future will not be entertained. When we look ten years back from 2021, if our colleagues in the PF handled this country well, our economy was going to be doing very well. When we talk about the issues of moving the economy forward, we need to look at the issues such as corruption. The amount of corruption that was in PF took us twenty years back. How then now does one come to the House and urge us to create modalities without even being specific? Let me thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana and for Lunte because they have tried –

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon Member for Mpika, this is a debate. If you have a point to being across,when you or any Member from your party are given an opportunity to contribute to the debate, you can respond. Issues of the Patriotic Front (PF) and the United Party for National Development (UPND) were raised in the debate, so the hon. Member is just reacting to that debate.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, I was saying that am grateful to the hon. Members of Parliament for Nkana and Lunte for at least trying to articulate the issues which the mover should have highlighted, because he was not specific about what should be done. However, in all fairness, the energy our hon. Colleagues from the PF have today in discussing these issues is the energy, with principle and integrity, they should have had when they were in office. Now…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chaatila: … is when they want to come on board to urge us to do things which they failed to do. Let me relay one thing; corruption is a cancer and the number of corrupt activities which the PF did –

Hon. Opposition Members: Which one?

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon Member for Moomba.

Hon. Members let us not divert from the motion but rather stick to it to avoid acrimony in the House and please do not repeat yourselves. From what I have heard, hon. Members keep repeating the same points.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, let me give an example of one of the economies that is operating on a twenty-four hour basis is the hotel industry. Between 2011 and 2021, whoever was known to own a lodge or a hotel and was aligned to the UPND, the PF gave orders to the ministries to ensure that no workshops under the Government were given to those people. What did that entail?

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon Member.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, we are drifting away from the motion. Let us stick to the motion and please, let us listen. We started very well, but suddenly we are drifting away.

Hon. Member for Moomba, continue as guided and stick to the motion.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, as I promised before business was suspended, I will not take long. In conclusion, I have difficulties supporting this Motion because as the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa indicated, the President has already given a directive on this issue. What we need, going forward, is to create an environment where the Government starts creating more jobs, and that is already being done. The Government should continue bringing on board more businesses.

Madam Speaker, it does not help to push such issues when these key drivers are always overlooked. I emphasise the need to bring sanity in the country’s economy. Then there will be no need for us to start pushing these Motions because everything will be in place.

Madam Speaker, I gave the example of hotels and lodges, which are key drivers of the economy and so, they do not need to be disturbed. Whichever political party comes in Government does not need to look at who owns what because the moment we do that, we will stifle businesses. This is the promise that this Government has given. For that reason, I find it very difficult to support this Motion. I must say that this is a very good Motion, but because things are already in place, there is no need to bring this Motion to urge the Government when things are already happening.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. This Motion has been debated heavily. Even the seconder wants to debate. I have a list on my table. I am going to allow the Leader of the Opposition, to be followed by the hon. Minister of Health and finally, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry will respond.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity. I take the debate of the mover, the seconder and my other hon. Colleagues as my own. I think they have been very clear on this.

Madam Speaker, I wish to just realign a few points so that hon. Colleagues appreciate the structure of Parliament and maybe, our raison d'etre. A party manifesto and the President’s Speech to Parliament are some of the sources of policies and legislation. It must be noted that when the President comes here to address Parliament, hon. Ministers derive legislation from there. Legislation is supposed to aid governance. Policies are also derived from there. So, it is very, very important, hon. Colleagues, that when the President is speaking, we just do not admire the English but pay attention to understand the points he is putting forth. From there, our hon. Colleagues on your right should be able to go back to their ministries, take the President’s Address and derive some policy from there and parts of that policy that require legislation should brought here by way of Bills. That is how things are done. So, on this side, if private hon. Members feel that there must be a law from the President’s Address, they will move a Private Member’s Bill. When it is believed or felt that a policy could be initiated, hon. Members will move Motions. That is how this House operates.

Madam Speaker, I am saying this for the benefit of some of my hon. Colleagues. I have heard most of them saying that this idea is already being implemented by mere pronouncement. No, it does not work that way, hon. Colleagues. It is not that because the President talked about it in that seat, then something is being done about it, no. There is a need to craft policy from there. So, all the hon. Member is asking is that the fact that the Government feels this is very, very important, can we now implore it to put modalities in place to make the twenty-four-hour economy possible.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I have been seated here listening attentively to my fellow hon. Member of Parliament I came with in 2016. He knows the procedure. Is he in order to mislead the nation, himself and others by insinuating that the Government is doing nothing about this issue? He does not belong and he does not sit in Cabinet. He is very far away from Cabinet, but he is saying that the Government is not doing anything by the President sitting in that chair. Does he not know that that very issue is actually in Cabinet now and it is being discussed?

Madam Speaker, is he in order to mislead the people and lecture us that things are not being done, when he is far away from Cabinet? Is he in order, this one?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

From what I was getting, the hon. Member was telling us how policies come to be made and then their implementation.

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He did not mention anything about Cabinet. From what I heard, he was just trying to tell us that things are supposed to move in this manner. I did not hear him say that the Government is doing nothing.

Mr Jamba: That is what he said!

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No. So, hon. Member, let us not waste time. I am going to allow the Leader of the Opposition to continue.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, thank you for your protection. On a light note, there is a rumour going around that there may be vacancies soon at ministerial level so there is this panic from hon. Members of Parliament at the bsck.

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: There is this panic. It is well-understood.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I hope that is just a joke.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, it is on a lighter note. There is a lot of activity on your right.

Madam Speaker, just to comfort to the hon. Member, I stand in my position as Leader of the Opposition to provide alternative policy. To just give hon. Member further comfort, I am also a drafter by qualification. So, he must be very comfortable when I provide this guidance. I am not shooting from the dark.

Mr Kapyanga: Jamba is a surveyor for a real estate company

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: So, Madam Speaker –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I think we are debating the Motion. Can we allow the Leader of the Opposition to proceed.

Hon. Member, can you please proceed.

Mr Mundubile: I think it is very important for colleagues to note that by the mere fact that the President announces something, they should be no assumption that the Government has already started working on it. So, I think what the hon. Member for Kamfinsa has done is in line. He is merely urging the Government, maybe, to expedite the transformation of this economy into a twenty-four-hour economy. So, for those that feel something is already being done about it, that is an assumption. As Madam Speaker duly guided, we should come here and debate with facts and not assumptions. So, to assume that the Government is doing something about this matter, without facts, I think, is not correct. So, I wish to support this Motion.

Madam Speaker, I think it is important also to note that the whole objective of making a twenty-four-hour economy is to create jobs. We are aware that when we talk about poverty, our country has high levels, in some cases, going way over 70 per cent with national averages way over 50 per cent.

Madam Speaker, statistics show that to properly fight poverty, we need to create sustainable jobs. I know that the previous Government went to length to try and open up the country by building infrastructure in many parts. That was for one reason; to try and industrialise. For those that may not know, infrastructure includes communication towers, which are all over the country. Communication infrastructure also includes connectivity to electricity, and even what we are using to speak right now. All these hon. Members seated here are able to communicate to their constituents because of the investment that the previous Government put in.

Madam Speaker, an environment has been created. People who visited Zambia over ten years ago, when they come now, they get surprised. Look at how many shopping malls we have all over the country. Even in remote parts of the country, you find shopping malls. So, the country now is ripe for a twenty-four-hour economy. You could not do this before that, for those that do not know. You could not start a twenty-four-hour economy before this infrastructure that you are seeing today. So, I want hon. Members to appreciate that some efforts have gone into this. It is just not abracadabra, it is not magic. It was some structured approach to development. They are seeing shopping malls everywhere. So, because of the initial steps that were taken, we are saying the country now is ready for a twenty-four-hour economy.

Madam Speaker, going forward, what we are saying is that in most parts of the country where development is still far, it will be difficult, of course, to introduce a twenty-four-hour economy. However, there are many parts that are ready for a twenty-four-hour economy. Examples were given about hotels. That has always been there. I think that my friends on your right must re-think their position because the position that we are stating is Government position given that it was said or put across to this House by the Head of State. We are also saying, as a Government in waiting –

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, what I have in my hands is the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto, 2021 to 2026, and at page 9, it reads: “Make Zambia a twenty-four-hour economy, thereby creating three shifts to enhance youth employment.”

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I wish to commend the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, the traditions of this House that bind the conduct of our discourse are well enshrined and known by all of us. The Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Mundubile, has been debating in a manner that has worried me because I am failing to make head and tail of what he is up to.

Madam Speaker, the time we have here is precious. It is at taxpayers’ expense. We should have been debating and bringing up serious points.

Is he in order to come to this House, knowing very well that not long ago, one year and five months, the people of this country rejected the Patriotic Front (PF) because of its manifesto and many wrong doings –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, the people of this country are not, in the foreseeable future, likely, whatsoever, to consider a PF come back.

Is he in order not to appropriately and accordingly qualify and characterise himself and his colleagues as former Government unlike to purport themselves as the in-coming Government? Is he in order to mislead himself? 

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: Three more years and I will be sitting there. I will be addressing you from there.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Members, the Motion before us is very clear. However, from time to time, we are tending to move away from the Motion that we are starting to talk about elections for 2026, which are not part and parcel of this Motion. Can we, please, stick to the Motion and try to avoid political issues which are not part and parcel of the Motion. The people of Zambia will decide. So, I ask the hon. Leader of the Opposition to keep that in mind as he continues with his debate.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think I have guided. This is just a guide. I did not even make any ruling. From the way I am listening and seeing what is going on, we are wasting tax payers’ money. We are just talking about other things. Let us stick to the Motion, which is very clear. The moment we bring in other issues which are not part and parcel of this Motion, we waste more time. So, it was just a guide to the hon. Leader of the Opposition to stick to the Motion.

Hon. Leader of the Opposition, you may continue.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, just for the record, an opposition political party can be referred as a Government-in-waiting or an alternative Government. There is nothing wrong.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: … and I will not depart from that because it is correct.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please continue with your debate on the Motion.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, it was very important to put the record straight. So, the point that I am trying to drive at is that this issue is also contained in an opposition political party manifesto. However, there is nothing wrong with the Government in power importing some ideas from the Opposition. That happens all over the world.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: I am worried that most of my hon. Colleagues here are yet to understand exactly what Governance is all about. I am privileged because I have been on both sides. Those who have not, I think, are finding challenges.

Mr Mundubile: So, let it be known to you hon. Colleagues that when it comes to governance, the reason His Excellency the President sits in that seat and says, “Let us work together”, is because he would also want to get ideas from the Opposition. So, this is very important. The idea of a twenty-four-hour economy, in case anybody doubted, came from the PF.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we have order. There is only one hon. Member who is supposed to be debating and we are all supposed to be listening in silence.

Mr Mundubile: So, the idea of a twenty-four-hour economy, Madam Speaker, as suggested by His Excellency the President, came from the PF Manifesto as I have demonstrated, and there is no apology about it.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Secondly, Madam Speaker, on the point the Whip referred to, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: … I think it is time we interrogated, packaged and thought through the Motions. He (pointing at a PF Member) just gave an example of a situation where the hon. Member for Petauke Central brings a Motion and our colleagues there (pointing at the UPND Bench), calls it Brought-In-Dead (BID) but five businessmen walk to State House and their idea is taken up. It is a shame.

Rev. Katuta laughed.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: As hon. Members of Parliament, we must have a sense of shame. We have a situation where they shoot down a Motion and the President welcomes it.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: So, we must come to a point where, if a Motion is progressive, they should give some good ideas around it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Leader of the Opposition. There is a point of order.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I raise on a very serious point of order on the Leader of the Opposition, in the manner he is debating and raising issues on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, is the Leader –

Hon. PF Members: Which Standing Order has been breached?

Mr Mwiimbu: I am rising on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Is the hon. Member in order, who is also the Leader of the Opposition, not to tell the nation and apologise that themselves (PF) when they were in Government, through the hon. Minister of Transport and Communications at that time, decided to stop the twenty-four hours of business and commerce, …

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: … by issuing a Statutory Instrument (SI) to stop any transportation of goods and services …

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: … in this country? Is he in order to mislead the nation without apologising to the people of this country that they destroyed the twenty-four hours of business and commerce in this country.

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  Order, Leader of the Opposition. There was a point of order that was raised by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, who was reminded us of a special Statutory Instrument (SI) that was issued by the former ruling party.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

I remember, there was an SI that prohibited transporters to travel at night. It was very clear that by 2100 hours, no transporter should be on the road.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: However, hon. Members, if we have that evidence, please, let us use it in our debate. This Motion that we have, we are supposed to debate it whether we support it or not. We can even give examples such as the one the hon. Minister has mentioned, so that it is clear to the people who are listening out there that at one time, the people who are supporting this Motion actually, had an SI which they stopped. So, for that, hon. Members, I will leave this issue to the hon. Ministers to bring it up and make strong points since the debate is still ongoing.

Hon. Leader of the Opposition, you can wind up debate.

Mr Mundubile: I can see a lot of emotions around that Statutory Instrument (SI) because it interferes with the transportation of sugilite, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: … and that is why the hon. Member is very concerned.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I have just realised that only one hon. Member from the Independent debated this Motion. So, I will allow one hon. Member from the Independent to debate before the hon. Ministers debate.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for …

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: … giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to debate. I want to thank the mover, Hon. Christopher Kang’ombe, Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa and the seconder, Hon. Fube, Member of Parliament for Chilubi for …

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: … bringing this non-controversial Motion to the House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Petauke Central.

A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to apologise to the hon. Member for Petauke Central for disturbing his flow of thought.

Madam Speaker, I stand to be corrected. My concern is on the point of order that was raised by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

I am still listening because she just started raising her point of order. What is your point of order, hon. Member?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I remember, I was part of the Committee on Transport and Communications when the Government then, issued a Statutory Instrument (SI) to stop all transporters from travelling at night. The reason the Government issued the SI through the hon. Minister, the engineer whom I have just forgotten his name –

Mr Mwene: Is that a point of order, honestly?

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, what I just want the nation to know is that the SI was issued because of too many accidents that were happening at night and …

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: … not because of transport.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Rev. Katuta: It is very important that we are factual.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: So, I am referring to Standing Order No. 65, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Member interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member for Chienge –

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: Do not use such language. Madam Speaker, I need your protection. How does somebody who got an adoption certificate by –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chienge.

Rev. Katuta: They are calling others confused.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chienge. Please resume your seat.

Rev. Katuta: Call your wives confused.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Rev. Katuta: You cannot call someone confused.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chienge, please resume your seat.

Rev. Katuta: Go and call your wives confused.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just a reminder to hon. Members. Please, we are in the people’s House.

Rev. Katuta: And they are calling others confused.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, hon. Member for Chienge, please, just listen.

Rev. Katuta: Call your wives confused.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, please leave the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I am leaving.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: Call your wives confused and not me.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, leave in silence.

Rev. Katuta left the Assembly Chamber.

Rev. Katuta: They should go and call their wives confused.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Petauke Central will continue.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Sometimes, drama happens in the House.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, please continue.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, let me put on record that in this House, we should stop this tendency of taking every issue as political.

Mr Nkandu: Echikopo.

Mr J. E. Banda: Wechikopo niwe.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! Please, resume your seat.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members! The House is becoming unruly.

Hon. PF Members: It is your people.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I do not have people. There are just hon. Members of Parliament in the House. Others are on the right and others on the left. We look at all the hon. Members in this House as one. So, hon. Members –

Mr B. Mpundu: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, I am talking.

We all know very well that when an hon. Member is debating, other hon. Members are supposed to be quiet so that we hear what the hon. Member is talking about. However, now we are hearing echikopo, what have you. Hon. Members, that is not correct. Let us respect each other. We are all hon. Members who represent people from our constituencies. Let us respect the hon. Member on the Floor.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, you may continue, and debate through the Speaker. Avoid responding to hon. Members who are not debating or who are seated. Debate through the Chair.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, I want to put on record that we like politicising everything, and that is why our country is going backwards.

Madam Speaker, when something is brought in this House, it is either about the Ruling Party or the Opposition, and we, the Independent Members are suffering. However, we were elected to come here to represent the people in our constituencies and their ideologies.

Mr Mposha: Question!

Mr J. E. Banda: Hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, it is my time to debate. So, be quiet. The Speaker is in the Chair.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Permit me to apologise to the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central for interrupting him.

Madam Speaker, I take the House to Standing Orders 207, read together with the privileges of hon. Members.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Members from the Ruling Party are given a maximum number to debate, together with the hon. Members of the Patriotic Front (PF). Why is it that we, Independent hon. Members, are being given the most minimum representation in this House?

Madam Speaker, we are all elected here. In fact, some got more votes than the people who are being given more privilege to debate. Is the House in order to impede on our privilege, that is to speak on behalf of the people who sent us to Parliament. We are not here on our own accord.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: This Motion actually started before break. From the list I have, three hon. Members from the right, three hon. Members from the left and two Independent hon. Members debated. I believe the Presiding Officer looked at the ratio. However, what is important for me is that we hear the voices from all the three parties, looking at the ratio. I am sure that is also the criterion that Madam Speaker used before tea break.

In fact, we are just winding up the debate. We have to close the Motion. I noticed that only one Independent hon. Member had debated, and I got worried and decided to allow two more because one was not enough. So, I allowed other Independent hon. Members to debate so we could hear other voices from the Independents. We try as much as possible to make sure that we hear from all the parties that are present in this House. Of course, the hon. Members of Parliament seated on the right are more, followed by the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members. However, when we have a lot of time, we usually allow more hon. Members even from the PF to debate, depending on the subject matter so that we hear from them since they are offering checks and balances. However, today, one Independent hon. Member had debated, but I increased the number to two.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, focus on your debate. You seem to be listening to the running commentaries and we are wasting a lot of time. We will not allow you to continue if you engage with other hon. Members on the side. Can you debate through the Speaker and can we have minimum running commentaries from the right. You may continue.

Mr J. E.Banda: Madam Speaker, we are here to present the ideologies of the people we represent in our constituencies, not the political groupings which sponsored us. So, as Independent hon. Members, we encourage more youths to come and –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you please focus on the Motion. The Motion on the Floor is about transforming Zambia into a twenty-four-hour economy. Can you focus on that. You may continue.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, this Motion is non-controversial. There are many youths who are unemployed in our country, especially in Munali. The youths in Munali Constituency are suffering. They are not yet employed. If this Motion is passed, many youths in Munali will find jobs. They will even thank the New Dawn Government, which wants Zambia to be the new Dubai. Dubai has a twenty-four-hour economy and that is why it is where it is today. If this Motion is supported by every well-meaning hon. Member here, I am sure Zambia will change and will be the new Dubai. There will be many businesses and a lot of production, as well as exports.

Madam Speaker, the youths cannot just be waiting to be employed. Last year, the New Dawn Government recruited youths in the education sector and the health sector, and we saw how many applicants there were. For example, in the health sector, there were more than 150,000 applications but the Government only wanted less than 15,000 people. Now imagine if we had a twenty-four-hour economy in our country and we supported what the President wants. However, I can see that some hon. Members do not want to support this Motion. I brought a Motion to this House about increasing foreign currency, but it was shot down, and other dull members were even saying that the Motion was dull.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda: However, when businessmen went to see the President, they asked him about it and he approved it, and soon, it will come to this House.

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: How are they going to–

Interruptions

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. BandaMadam Speaker, so–

Madam First Deputy Speaker:Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

There is too much talking in the House.

Mr J. E. Banda: They do not respect me!

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There are too much running commentaries, both from my right and the left.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are we ready to continue?

Mrs Chonya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Chonya: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order, but the point of order I am raising is compelling.

Laughter

Mrs Chonya: It is on the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Petauke Central, in his debate, talked about some hon. Members of Parliament who were dull, who did not support the Motion that he had raised earlier in Parliament. Is the hon. Member in order to refer to any of these hon. Members as being dull in his debate?

 I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Standing Order!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

You do not have to help me. I am going to remind the hon. Member for Kafue to cite the Standing Order.

Hon. Member, can you cite the Standing Order that has been breached.

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, I am referring to Standing Order No. 65, which also talks about the relevance of one’s debate and the one that relates to etiquette of hon. Members of Parliament.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, did you say Standing Order No.65?

Hon. Members: Yes!

Laughter

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, Ireferred to the one that talks about theetiquette and the decorumof the House. Maybe I can be helped to cite it, but certainly, there is a Standing Order that relates to the decorum of the House.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member for Kafue.

The Standing Orderthat you have cited is a wrong one. I am sure you meant to cite Standing Order No. 66, which talks about unparliamentary language.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Can we please familiarise ourselves with the standing orders so that we are correct. We are supposed to be correct in the House. However, hon. Member for Petauke Central, the word is unparliamentary. There is no dull person in this House.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will ask the hon. Member for Petauke to withdraw the word.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I withdraw and replace it with ‘they should be thinking properly’.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, if the Motion to urge the Government to put in place modalities for transforming Zambia into a 24-hour economy goes through, even our country will be clean. Last week, the Hon. Minister of Health mentioned the districts that are affected by cholera, but once this Motion goes through that will be the thing of the past because the country will be clean. There will be a lot of job creation and the youths will be in jubilation, ...

Mr J. E. Banda: ... especially the youths in Munali because all of them will now be employed.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Although, right now, I am sure they are crying because they do not have adequate representation in the House.

Laughter

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, even the exchange rate will improve. It means that if this Motion goes through…

Mr Mposha: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. E. Banda:…exports will increase and because of that, we will have a lot of money–

 

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Could you please give evidence where you are giving examples. We cannot relate what you are saying.

Hon. Government Member: You cannot get anything.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We cannot relate and we cannot prove if what you are saying is true.

Mr Mposha: On a point order, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I have a video of the youths in Munali. They came to me because I am the young brother to the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Interruptions

Mr Mposha: On a point order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You may resume your seat. I have seen that you have lost your focus because the debate is now about Munali.

Can we move on to the next person to debate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Niokelewa!

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the Motion before you. This Motion is indeed non-controversial because it is basically urging the Government to transform the Zambian economy into a 24-hour business and the hope is that through that, jobs would be created. So, to that extent, it is non-controversial.

Unfortunately, Madam Speaker, I stand not to support this non-controversial Motion because we may just be setting a wrong precedent for ourselves as Parliament.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is in pursuant to not only our Standing Orders, but also our supreme law of the land. That is the Constitution of Zambia, Article 76 and Article 77 and I will read them;

“76.     (1) A Member of Parliament has freedom of speech and debate in the National Assembly and that freedom shall not be ousted or questioned in a court or tribunal.”

Madam Speaker, I will go to sub Article (2) of Article 76, it says:

“A Member of Parliament shall have the powers, privilegesand immunities, as prescribed.”

Meaning that, as hon. Members of Parliament, we should havesubsidiary legislation that prescribes these immunities, and that is CAP 12.

Madam, I will go to Article 77, which says;

“77.     (1) Subject to this Article and Article 78, the National Assembly shall regulate its own procedure and make Standing Orders for the conduct of its business.”

Madam Speaker, any procedure that regulates our conduct and infringes on Article 76 is null and void because the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and any subsidiary legislation that is in conflict with the Constitution is null and void.

We have so many cases that we can refer to. Among the popular ones is the ‘Christine Mulundika and Seven Others’case.

Madam Speaker, are we in order to curtail the debates of hon. Members who have the freedom,as enshrined in the Republican Constitution, to speak on the Floor of this House?

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: The problem with you is that you just argue for the sake of arguing. You will prove yourselves irrelevant hon. Members, …

Hon. UPND Member: Nichaniuyu?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Are you speaking through the Chair or you are talking to the hon. Members on the right?

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I need your protection. They are attacking me.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that is why you should speak through the Chair. Hon. Members standing on the Floor are not supposed to exchange words with other hon. Members who are seated and have not been given the opportunity to speak. You are just supposed to face the Speaker and raise your point of order. You do not address hon. Members in your point of order. You direct it to the Speaker’s desk.

So, please can you raise your point of order and address it to the Speaker, not to hon. Members who are seated.

Mr Mung’andu: Thank you for your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders are very clear. When an hon. Member is on the Floor, other hon. Members should not speak, but they are speaking, yet they belong to the Government. Instead of seeking our support, they are speaking. So, I ask that you guide them not to speak because that is against our Standing Orders.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, is that another point of order?

Mr Mung’andu: No, Madam Speaker, I am complaining.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, I think there is a better way of registering your complaint. Are you done with your point of order?

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is this House in order to infringe on the constitutional rights of hon. Members? We know that not all hon. Members can speak in a sitting, but we should, at least, have a system of negotiating turns. We have heard the hon. Independent Members of Parliament complain.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr Mung’andu: Their complaints have a basis to seek judicial, ...

MrB. Mpundu: Redress.

Mr Mung’andu: … interpretation. We can do that.

So, Madam Speaker, are we in order to infringe on the rights of hon. Members when the Constitution bestows on us the right to speak freely in this august House?

I seek you serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I am sure this is not your first term in Parliament. You have been in this House before, and so, you know very well, and you rightly brought it out, that there is a Constitution that governs this country. You may also be aware that there are three arms of the Government; the Legislature, the Judiciary, and the Executive. This House has got its own rules which are in the Standing Orders. The Speaker has to make sure that there is order in the House and the Standing Orders are followed. If an hon. Member is not addressing the issue on the Floor, it is up to the Speaker to either curtail or allow the hon. Member to continue.

The hon. Member for Petauke Central was struggling and he took up so much time. I kept on giving him more time, but we kept going back to level one. He kept engaging other hon. Members and he veered away from the Motion at hand despite the guidance given to him. So, the Speaker has to be cautious of time as well. There are many hon. Members who also want to debate. We cannot waste time on one hon. Member when they know very well, the Motion at hand. The hon. Member also knows the Standing Orders very well. These are not new rules, they have been there, and we have to follow them.

So, hon. Members, these are the rules in this House. We cannot depart from them. Although there is a Constitution, we are guided by the Standing Orders. So, curtailing the debate of the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central was in order because I saw reason for him to continue on the path he was on. We kept on wasting time and we were not progressing. We have other business that we need to clear.

So, hon. Member, I think your point of order is not admissible. The Speaker was just right to move in that direction.

Hon UPND Member: Paralegal!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I stood to debate the Motion which is urging the Government to put in place a twenty-four-hour economy, and I was saying that this Motion is non-controversial. It seeks to improve the economy and create employment. However, I stated from the outset that we, on this side of the House, will not support this Motion because we would be setting the wrong precedence. A wrong precedence in that …

Mr J. E. Banda interjected.

Mrs Masebo: Alikuti Dora kansi naye abwelechabe.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Member: Iwe, ndiwe okolewa?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, continue.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I was saying that we will not support this Motion on principle because we do not want, as the Executive, to set a wrong precedence. This is because we will have Motions brought to the House urging the hon. Minister of Health to ensure that the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) operates twenty-four hours a day, yet it already does that.

Madam Speaker, we think that these kinds of Motions are not helpful. They are just brought to the House for political gain. On that account, …

Mr J. E. Banda interjected.

Mrs Masebo:… we will not support it. This is because on 29^th September, 2022, His Excellency, the President announced that his Government would pursue a twenty-four-hour economy, and he gave directives to the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security to begin the process.

Since then Madam Speaker, many different efforts have been put in place, –

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I am raising a point on order based on Standing Order 202 (4)which reads:

“A member who alleges that his or her privilege is being, or has been, denied in the House may, as soon as the alleged denial occurs, raise a Point of Order.”

Madam Speaker, I was on the Floor debating – Everyone here knows the Standing Order that states that hon. Members can only speak in the House upon the approval of the presiding officer. However, the hon. Members in this House always open their mouths before you give them the Floor, …

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda:… and then they disturb the hon. Member on the Floor. When guiding, the presiding officer will curtail the hon. Member on the Floor and not the ones opening their mouths.

Laughter

Hon UPND Member: Kang’ombe, I blame you.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I was given the opportunity or time to debate. I have a mandate, which the good people of, Peta-UK, Petauke, gave me to debate when I press the communication system. Every hon. Member has a gadget, and so, it is not like I am using the hon. Member for Munali’s gadget, no.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I am sure the youths of Munali are crying about their choice of Member of Parliament and thinking that maybe, a youthful hon. Member would have represented them well.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance and ruling because my people, especially the youths were waiting for the outcome of this Motion. If this Motion went through, many youths would find jobs. Even our town Peta-UK was going to be the cleanest district in the county.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central, we are not supposed to raise a point of order on another point of order. I curtailed your debate based on Standing Order 67, irrelevance and repetition. I mentioned to you that you kept on mentioning Munali and going backwards, just like that. I guided the other hon. Members to remain quiet and allow only one hon. Member who was on the Floor to debate. I think that guide was very loud and clear for the hon. Members who kept on interjecting your debate.

So, I hope it is clear why I had to curtail your debate and that I guided the other hon. Members of Parliament to remain quiet and stop interjecting and allow only one hon. Member who was on Floor to speak.

I will allow the hon. Minister to continue, but please, this time, let us minimise on the points of order. Otherwise, I am going to stop them because we are not making progress.

We will give it a try.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I was saying that on your right, we will not support this Motion on account that we do not want to create a wrong precedence. I said that otherwise, every week, we will have somebody raise a question urging the Government to do what it is actually doing. We want the people on your left to help the Government by working together with it and bringing Motions that will add value.

Madam Speaker, this Motion is not adding value to our work because it has already been decided upon. The President gave instructions, and Cabinet members in different sectors of the economy are already working on different programmes and legislation to bring this Motion, which is on the Floor, into effect. So, we cannot support such a Motion because it is meaningless to us. So, it is not that we just want to say no.

Madam Speaker, remember that this administration is led by a leader who insists on being methodical and logical in the way it does things. So, even when we come here, we want to continue on that same path. What we do must make sense. It is not just to come and talk for the sake of talking or scoring points which are pointless. We want Motions that will help us to get better for the betterment of the country. So, we will not support this Motion and, please, it is not that we just do not want to support it, but because we will be setting a wrong precedence.

Madam Speaker, the other point is that the Chief Whip for the Patriotic Front (PF), Hon. Kampyongo, stated that this Motion is meant to create employment and that employing doctors and teachers is not creation of jobs. It does not add value. In short, that is what he was saying. I want to say to him that that is not correct because if we are talking about creating employment and making this economy a twenty-four-hour economy, we should have enough doctors to ensure that hospitals operate 24 hours. So, it not correct to say or insinuate that employing is an every day job. It costs money. It means you are thinking. So, it is a plus that must be supported and not trivialised in the manner of his debate.

Madam Speaker, I just want to state that –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: I thought you said that there will be no points of order.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We will stop soon.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65 (1) (a).

Madam Speaker, I had the chance to debate this Motion earlier on. In my debate, I did mention, and I am happy that the hon. Minister on the Floor has served under three Presidents and knows what the Government does –

Hon. PF Members: Na mu UNIP. Na muli Kaunda.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, my point was that every Government employs civil servants in the public sector. It is a routine undertaking of every Government. The real creation of jobs, and I want her to follow me, is in the private sector because then ...

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on my right, can we please have order! Hon. Members on my right, can we have order. Let us minimise on the interjections. 

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you may continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, that was the distinction I was making.

The hon. Minister of Health is contradicting herself. In one breath she says the President has told us about this twenty-four-hour economy and we have started doing something about it and in the next, that if we accept, we are setting a wrong precedence.

Madam Speaker, she is saying that your Motion is meaningless. The Motion was processed by your office to come on the Floor. She is a senior hon. Member and, as I said, she is the senior most in terms of Government work here and has sung praises for different Presidents.

Madam Speaker, is she in order to draw me into her debate, firstly, and, secondly, to mislead this august House about what I said regarding employment of public service workers and private sector workers? I know that she has employed and there are no medicines in hospitals, and we sympathise with the situation.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, that is now turning into a debate. I was trying to follow you in the beginning, but now, the point order is talking about so many things. It will be very difficult for me to make a ruling. Let us be specific when we are raising a point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, my specific point of order is: Is this hon. Veteran politician, the hon. Minister of Health, in order to mislead this august House regarding my debate, which I have clarified here, and draw me into her debate in a manner that does not support the decorum of this august House?

I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, it is a pity that you raised many of issues. However, there was one issue that you raised about the recruitment of health workers and teachers, but meandered and went very broad. You brought in many issues. Please, next time, try to be very specific to the point of order because you are supposed to raise one point of order that is clear and cite the Standing Order that has been breached. So, because there were so many issue that you brought in, I am just going to ask the hon. Minister of Health to be very specific in her debate and make sure that as she responds to the hon. Members’ debate, she is accurate and give us accurate information.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I want to repeat that the issue of employing doctors and teachers adds value to the Motion on the Floor, when it comes to running an economy for twenty-four hours. The way we debate and how we think must be broad, and not narrow. So, when people give examples on the Floor of this House that mislead the listeners, I wonder. People say that the issue of employing doctors and other medical staff does not add value to this Motion unless the Government creates employment and extends the hours of work to twenty-four hours. We must then be able to put that into context.

Madam Speaker, somebody read a manifesto on the Floor of this House which he referred to as a manifesto for the party he belongs to. When the same people who are talking about their manifesto had the chance, they put a legislation or Statutory Instrument (SI) which restricted transporters from moving after 2100 hours. We then ask ourselves whether that was logical.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we give the hon. Minister room to debate. Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am debating and responding at the same time. It is like they are not strong enough to stomach my responses.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, someone read a manifesto which he stated was for the party he belonged to. He went further to say that he was in support of the twenty-four-hour economy initiative. I am now responding to that.

Madam Speaker, this is someone from the administration that issued an SI which restricted transporters from moving at night. So, how can the same person say that he now supports the twenty-four-hour economy and that he can now advise us?  We should be logical in our thinking, processing and advising. Therefore, on this side of the House, we do not support this Motion because we want to be logical in the way we debate and act.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Hon. Ministers who are debating on the Floor, can we please, keep in mind the tone we are using as we debate. We are debating and not quarrelling. So, let us speak in a calm manner by maintaining the tone. We are one people. Let us move on. The last person to debate on this Motion is hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chipoka Mulenga): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to respond and close the debate on this Motion. Allow me also to appreciate the mover of the Motion, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa …

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is the last point of order so that we make progress

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me the last point of order today, which I raise against the hon. Minister of Health. What we are debating today, is a Private Member’s Motion and not PF Motion. The hon. Member who brought this Motion to this House was not in this Assembly when the PF was in Government. He is a new member.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, firstly, the fact that a member from the PF promulgates a sensible Motion and brings it to your office and you process it to be presented in this House, does not mean it is a PF Motion. Secondly, the fact that hon. Members from the PF supported the Motion does not make it a PF Motion. This is a Private Member’s Motion. Is the hon. Minister of Health, who is a former PF member, in order to accuse us, as the PF, of having sponsored a Motion, although it is a good one? Is she in order to state that they cannot support it because it a PF Motion?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling, so that we know whether your Standing Orders provide for partisan motions.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Again, we are going back to our Standing Orders. Every Wednesday, hon. Members are given an opportunity to come up with Private Members’ Motions, either from the Ruling Party, the Opposition or the Independent hon. Members. That is your privilege as the hon. Members of Parliament. I am sure that the Speaker had guided to say that these Motions actually, pass through her office for approval. When they are presented to the Speaker, they do not show whether they are from the United Party for National Development (UPND) or the PF. These Motions are presented as Private Members’ Motions by hon. Members of Parliament in the House. So, let us not even waste time. It is something that we all know. There is no PF or UPND Motion. These are Motions that are supposed to be presented to the House by all hon. Members. Every Wednesday is a chance for hon. Members to present such Motions. Please, as we debate, let us refrain from referring to Motions as being PF or UPND. 

With that guide, let us take it that Motions that are brought to the House are for the backbenchers. We hope it is clear that there is no Motion for the PF, UPND or Independent. It is a privilege that hon. Members have as backbenchers. So, next week, on Wednesday, as we debate hon. Members, let us keep it in mind that it is a privilege for hon. Members to bring Private Member’s Motions and should they not be labelled as PF, UPND or Independent. Our duty as hon. Members is either to support or not support the Motion. It ends there. So, with that guide, let us not waste time. That was the last point of order. For the Wednesdays to come, we will be guided. May the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry continue as the last hon. Minister to debate this Motion so that we close it up.

Mr Chipoka Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I was also acknowledging and appreciating the seconder of the Motion, Hon. Fube.

Madam Speaker, I will respond accordingly to the hon. Members who have debated and give a final recommendation as the Executive. I must mention from the onset that I appreciate on behalf of the Government, the buying into the vision and idea, of our hon. Colleagues on the left, of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, of getting the economy to run twenty-four hours per day, seven days a week, who has since directed, as it has already been said by many other hon. Members, that we develop a twenty-four-hour economy.

Madam Speaker, I must mention from the onset that His Excellency’s directive has received positive response and his Executive members are in action to implement formalities and fundamentals that will see Zambia reach a point of getting into a twenty-four economy. I remember in September, 2022, when we held the Zambia-China Business Forum, a pronouncement was made by the President directing it at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, it is not only street cameras that will make this to be implemented. We appreciate that it was implemented.  In response to making sure that formalities and modalities are put in place, the response from the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has been of further recruitment of staff in the security wings. That is another formality which will guarantee security to run a twenty-four-hour economy. The employment of staff to increase manpower will not only see security provided but will also, increase revenue circulation in the economy, wealth, and individual youths who never had jobs, being brought in to the economy.

Madam Speaker, allow me to respond quickly to the concerns that were raised by the hon. Member for Bweengwa. This Motion is good and we appreciate it, but this issue is already in motion. Whether we debate it here or subject it to a vote and we win or anybody else wins, it is already in motion. Fundamentals are being put in place at the directive of His Excellency the President. The Executive is responding positively and we look forward to working alongside our hon. Colleagues on the left side to see that a Motion that is not political but apolitical is actualised in a better way.

Madam Speaker, I also need to respond to the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu who agrees with His Excellency on implementing this proposal. I will refer to that as the reason we are implementing the matter.

Madam Speaker, allow me to clear one thing that was said by the hon. Member, which is that the President lamented the implementation of the formalities for a twenty-four-hour economy. His Excellency never lamented.

Mr Mulenga was interrupted by an insect.

Mr Mulenga: What is this? Please, napapata.

Hon. Government Members: Kampyongo!

Mr Mulenga: Ba Kampyongo, napapata bakalamba.

Laughter

Mr Mulenga: The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu claimed that His Excellency lamented. It is not a lamentation that His Excellency gave; it is a concern that we should transform the economy from its current state into a twenty-four-hour economy which will provide an improved living standard for our people.

Madam Speaker, developing an economy from a partial economy into a twenty-four-hour economy will require us to put in place a number of things. I must mention that Zambia already has many sectors operating on a twenty-four-hour basis. The mining sector, the production sector, the energy sector and the health sector led by the hon. Minister of Health, among many other sectors, run on a twenty-four-hour basis. With time, we will develop other fundamentals and add more sectors to the twenty-four-hour economy.

Madam Speaker, let me come methodically and systematically to the issue of the twenty-four-hour economy. I remember very well that when this issue was raised by the mover of the Motion sometime back last year, there was a concern of bringing shops, restaurants, clothing shops and others into a twenty-four-hour economy. We need to restructure the law among many others things which will govern people working in certain sectors for twenty-four hours. When the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security brings Motions to Parliament, I hope they will be supported. This is the more reason this Government has put the Emoluments Commission. It is part of the fundamentals put in place to get the Government to run a twenty-four-hour economy.

Madam Speaker, in the past, borders were opened and closed time and again which limited business activities in this country. Under the Government of the new dawn, we have kept the borders open for business or export. These are the fundamentals and modalities that are leading us to running a twenty-four-hour economy. With stakeholder engagement through the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region and our neighbours, we are hoping to keep all borders running twenty-four-seven. These are the modalities that we have continued to put in place.

Madam Speaker, allow me to respond to the concerns that were raised by the hon. Member for Mwembezhi. I will skip the hon. Member for Nkana because we speak the same language. He looks forward to Zambia being transformed into a twenty-four-hour economy. My response is that we are putting fundamentals in place that will support the implementation of this proposal. The hon. Member from Mwembezhi clearly said that we are implementing what is being proposed. The only question is, how far have we gone with that, and I will provide a response to the House.

Madam Speaker, allow me to respond to the concerns of the hon. Member for Lunte. I will use my native language but I will interpret what I will say. Where I come from, we say, insoni e buntu. It means that a sense of shame defines humanity. Those on the left cannot pretend today to be champions of getting the economy to run for twenty-four hours when they are the ones who issued Statutory Instrument No. 78 to make sure that commerce and trade does not happen in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, under the New Dawn Government, with the leadership of His Excellency, many relevant ministries are working together to achieve this proposal. The Ministry of Transport and Logistics is working around the clock to see that the wheels of the economy are moving. Trucks and buses which the Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) business personnel are using will soon be allowed to run twenty-four-seven. These are the modalities we are putting in place.

Madam Speaker, I need to mention this clearly. It is here where I said that this matter is not a party agenda. Consistency is critical in mentioning any pronouncement. It was here barely three hours ago where the Leader of the Opposition clearly said that this is a Patriotic Front (PF) manifesto. I continue to lobby the hon. Members of this House to be apolitical. Like the hon. Member for Petauke Central said, let us be apolitical on certain Motions. They said that this is a PF Motion but the hon. Minister of Health said it is not and they questioned that. The President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has loudly said that let us put formalities in place to make the economy run twenty-four-seven.

Mr Kafwayarose.

Hon. Government Members: Sit down iwe!

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, allow me to advise the House –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kafwayainterjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte!

Hon. Minister, I heard the Leader of the Opposition mention that he had a booklet in his hands and he said it was the PF manifesto. I did not hear him say that this is a PF Motion, but he mentioned that this is a PF manifesto. So, maybe, you can correct that as you debate.

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, in the spirit of decency and humanity and other things, I will do that. However, my opinion still stands that he said that this is a PF thing.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mulenga: The moment you start saying this is a chite for this and that party, you bring politics at play.

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge your guidance and leadership so I will move as guided.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. This was, indeed, a long Motion. We have to close it. I invite the hon. Member for Kamfinsa to wind up debate.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, allow me, first of all, to thank your office. Standing Order No. 82(1) in Chapter 13 is very clear and allow me to read it as I wind up. It reads as follows:

“(1)        A backbencher may introduce a Private Member’s Motion in the House.”

Madam Speaker, what I have done and what I will continue doing is to comply with this guideline. The guidelines are very clear that if I or any hon. Member has an idea, we should put it in writing to your office and your office will process a Motion. The reason your office allowed this debate today is because the document was screened. The need for modalities to be put in place was recognised because if it was not, you would not have allowed this Motion to come today.

Madam Speaker, what we have done the last two and half hours is to comply with the guidelines. In keeping with the tradition of Parliament, which has a role of providing oversight, if the Government has an idea or policy and we feel that that policy is not moving at the speed at which it should move, we have a duty as Parliament and as backbenchers to remind Government of its obligations. The Government is under an obligation to put modalities in place. That is the purpose of this conversation. Who has benefited from this discussion today? The public out there and the many members of the public who are not aware that there is need for a twenty-four-hour economy.

After this discussion today, they have been enlightened. Where they are sitting in their houses, they are saying, “We actually need this thing”. So, when we do our role the way we have performed today, the Government must recognise that we have Members of Parliament from the opposition who have the right quality. Our role is to bring ideas. Do you want to have an opposition Member of Parliament who sits for three hours not discussing anything? You need an opposition Member of Parliament who should remind you that there is this which you have to do for the people of Zambia and that is what we have done.

Madam Speaker, let me thank everyone who has debated today. This is not the last Motion that you are seeing. There are many Motions that will be brought on the Floor and I am very confident that you will allow them because they increase the knowledge in our country about the type of policies that we should have. So, today the people of Zambia are saying that this is what should happen, we should debate issues, scrutinise ideas and ensure that the ideas are implemented.

Madam Speaker, let me appeal to this august House that we need to raise the productivity levels of our country and that we cannot produce only during the day but that we should produce even beyond the normal working hours. So, as I wind up, let me appeal that this Motion is a Motion moved on behalf of the people of Zambia. This is not a Motion for any political party. This is not a Christopher Kang’ombe Motion but if passed today, you are going to begin implementing the ideas.

Madam Speaker, I am confident, as I wind up, that whether this is voted for or not, the conversation in Zambia has changed. Those that have followed this debate for the last two and half hours, almost three hours now, actually three hours, they have picked very valuable lessons. This is a labour related matter, a productive natter also it is a matter that relates to our people. I am happy that the business community out there is excited that we gave an idea to a Member of Parliament who took the idea to Parliament.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question that this House urges the Government to put in place modalities for transforming Zambia into a 24 hour economy put and negatived.

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate Resumed)

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me the opportunity to comment on the President’s Speech.

Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleague from Kafue said this is a smallest speech she has ever seen ever since she joined. Since we joined this Assembly at the same time, I can confirm that this, indeed, has been the smallest. My hon. Colleagues said, however, it is pregnant with progress.

 

Madam Speaker, a month ago or so, five Government ministers who hail from one region conducted a press conference promoting tribalism. Hardly did they know that a few weeks later the President will be sitting on the throne to discuss national values and principles. I do think that is the true meaning of ‘insoni ebuntu’. It was interpreted by the hon. Minister of–

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, do we have evidence of the meeting that you talked about where hon. Ministers from one region had a meeting on tribalism?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the country is aware about that as much as I am aware. It is a notorious fact and it is public domain. However, I do not want to waste time on that. I will clearly indicate what I intend to talk about.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to discuss sustainable development. Secondly, I want to discuss–

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let me give some guidance to the hon. Member. When you talk about certain things in the House, try to be very factual. Do not bring them out and fail to substantiate them by just saying, “No, let us just move ahead with something else”.  What you brought out has already gone out to the public.

Mr Kafwaya: Should I mention their names?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is why I said do we have evidence of that meeting.

Mr Kafwaya: It is clearly in public domain and was a news item on Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC).

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is on social media.

Hon. Government Members: Do not argue.

Mr Kafwaya: No, I am not arguing I am just responding and my time is moving while speaking with the Chairperson.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lunte. I am very sure you know that this House does not rely on things from social media. I think it has been mentioned over and over again. That is why I said do you have evidence somewhere to prove what you are talking about because it has already gone to the public. Where is the evidence?

Mr Kafwaya: I did not follow that procedure.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay.

Mr Kafwaya: There is a procedure, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay, but is it possible that you can withdraw that statement since you have not followed the procedure.

Mr Kafwaya: No, it is not that everything I say I must lay on the Floor. It has to be my intention.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, but for that one hon. Member for Lunte, this is Parliament where we are following procedure. We are following procedure in this House. There is no short cut. We are following procedure hon. Member and you know that very well.

Mr Kafwaya: What would like me to do, Madam?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: To lay the evidence that a meeting was held.

Mr Kafwaya: It was a press conference not a meeting. It was before cameras. It was a press conference and ZNBC and Muvi TV were all there.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: For us to make progress, since you have not followed procedure, can you withdraw that statement so that we make progress. If you do not want to withdraw it, then we move on to the next person to debate.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I will have to withdraw in order to debate, otherwise, this may pass.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: I withdraw in order to debate.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, you can proceed.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the President discussed sustainable development and he mentioned some things. The things he mentioned, in my view, were about the future. For example, it may not be progress to indicate that we must go beyond responding to disasters to focus more on prevention. That is not progress. It is not progressive to say, “We are partnering with the private sector to plant in excess of two million trees in the next five years”. However, it maybe progress to say, “We have planted the following number of trees”. This is a report which has a timeline. In that time period, you show the progress which you have made.

Madam Speaker, on this pillar, I see only one thing I consider to be progress, which the President actually recorded. It was about the Government adopting the Community Based National Resource Management Policy. Now, that is progress. When you move from this and go to, for example, good governance, I only find one item listed as progress. The rest of the things are not progress.

Now, Madam Speaker, I am happy because my hon. Colleague from Kafue is here, who found pregnancy in this very slim report. I can assure you this report may actually be an abortion.

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: Madam, this speech is this slim because there is no progress reported.

Madam Speaker, decentralisation which the President talked about is not governance.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: Corruption, – I will educate you. The corruption which the President talked about is not at governance level. These are operations. I will be very clear. How can the President say, now the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) and Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Committees are operating fully throughout the country? At what point in the recent history have WDCs never operated? At what point have WDCs or CDF Committees never operated? So, it is very clear that the crafters of this speech have no idea, they need support from us and we need to help them as we talk about these issues.

Madam Speaker, there is a clear difference among governance, strategy and operations. This is why I am saying operations at the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), at the Zambia Police Service and at other institutions is not governance. Governance is providing an environment at Cabinet level, which supports institutions. So, when the President says these are the issues we are looking at, he must be helped. The people who should help him are these hon. Ministers. These ones (pointing at the hon. Cabinet Ministers) and the technocrats who have been appointed so that the President comes to the Assembly with information which can resonate easily with the people who understand these issues.

Madam Speaker, let me now come to democracy and constitutionalism. I would never have referred to Kwacha Constituency and Kabushi Constituency, never! I would not have done that because the Zambian people know that the elections in Kabushi and in Kwacha were bad.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: To start with, Madam Speaker, there was the issue of expired ballot papers. Number two is the issue of participants who had withdrawn from contesting that election being brought back without any legal provision that supported a person withdrawing from an election to get back in the race.

Madam Speaker, if I was President, …

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: … I would never refer to peace in by-elections. I would remember what happened in Lusangazi when a PF member was almost killed and he ran towards the 4x4 vehicle. I would have remembered what happened in Mkushi. I would have remembered when the police ran away from the police station in Mkushi. Instead, I would have said we have done some things but there is more to be done. To show that progress, I would be talking about what we would have done, but not mentioning Kabushi and congratulating people who competed against themselves. Then you say –

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, this is the real reason the speech is this slim because there is literally no progress. I will go and shake hands with my hon. Colleague and still insist that this is a miscarriage.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity granted to the people of Sikongo to add a voice to the debate on the speech by the President on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, I thank the President for the speech that he delivered to this House and in doing so, I want to mention that national values and principles are very important to the development of every country, and Zambia is no exception. I am very happy to mention that as a Member of Parliament under the United Party for National Development (UPND) leadership of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema, I am happy that we have a President and a Government that is walking the talk in as far as application of values and principles is concerned.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, in the past, we had situations where we say one thing and do the opposite. This time around, I think, everyone is seeing that the President and his Government mean well for the people of this country. In this regard, we have seen that we have made good progress in as far as the application of values and principles is concerned. I urge the people of this country and hon. Members of Parliament here to make sure that we take advantage of this President who wants to put this country on the right track.

Ms Kasune: Commander-in-Chief.

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, as I said earlier on, values and principles are very important in the development of our country. I think we should be serious. Where we have made mistakes in the past, this is the right time for us to correct those mistakes and get back to doing the right things. So, colleagues, hon. Members of Parliament, let us not trivialise what the President came to talk to us about. As people of the Western Province and Sikongo, in particular, I would say that in the past, these values and principles were not being applied correctly on us. The Western Province is one of the least developed provinces in the country. That is because there was no equity in the distribution of development.

Madam, in the Western Province, we have roads that are not supposed to be called roads. Since independence, the Western Province has been overlooked. Why has that been the case? It is because of not applying the values and principles in as far as development is concerned. So, we are saying we need to work with this New Dawn Administration which is seriously making sure that we, as a country or a people, begin to apply these principles equally and equitably.

In this regard, Madam Speaker, I want to talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The President has demonstrated that he is going to look at development in this country, not from regions or tribal perspectives, but from a One Zambia, One Nation perspective, just as he mentioned here.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, we are one people and development should go everywhere. So, the CDF is being given to every constituency. The CDF is being given timely and we are seeing that within one year of it being increased from K1.6 million to K25.7 million last year and now to K28.3 million this year, there is a lot that is happening in terms of development everywhere. Even the people of Sikongo are happy because for the first time, we have forty projects running at a go. We are talking about police posts, health posts, classroom blocks and many things which were not there. This is happening everywhere.

So, those of our hon. Colleagues who are even trying to trivialise the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) are being unfair to themselves and the people in their constituencies. The people of this country are seeing what the CDF is able to do. The people in Kanchibiya are seeing and are happy. They are going to judge the hon. Members for not having used the CDF in their constituencies.

Hon. Government Members: Lunte and Mporokoso.

Laughter

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, can we make sure that we take this CDF seriously and apply ourselves so that we bring the much needed development into our country.

Madam Speaker, I want to talk about issues of cadreism and political violence that we saw in the past administration.

Hon. Government Members: Gassing.

Mr Simushi: Gassing too. That was not what the application of values and principles should have been. I think, let us change for the better because we have seen how our President and his Government have taken those issues. The President is walking the talk. He is saying these things should not be there because they retard progress and development. So, we need to appreciate him and his Government when they are doing the right things.

Madam Speaker, this time around, everyone is free. The Patriotic Front (PF) and other political parties are free to express themselves. They are free to go to radio stations.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, we are seeing them going to all radio stations freely expressing themselves. That is as it should be. So, let us support that type of governance and rule of law. 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the fight against corruption, which the President mentioned. I think the fight against corruption should not be seen as people being persecuted. All we are trying to do is to simply make sure that those who stole account. We want the money back so that we can put it into the CDF. We want the money so that we can build the roads we are talking about.

Madam Speaker, they are always talking about the infrastructure they built which was massive and so on and so forth. However, at the same time, we hear hon. Members of Parliament complaining, even from the other side, that there was nothing that was happening. So, it means money was there, they borrowed heavily, but they put it somewhere else. So, we want them to account for that. They should tell us where they took the money –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, when that happens, it is not persecution. All we are saying is that the people of Zambia want their money back so that they can take it where? To the students’ meal allowances, like we are doing.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, there is too much talking going on. Can we allow the hon. Member for Sikongo to debate freely. His people are listening to his debate. Let us give him room. Can we maintain silence and talk in low voices so that the hon. Member can freely debate.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I want to mention that the kind of environment that has been created under the New Dawn Administration is really going to help us to develop as a country. I want to urge the people of Zambia not to listen and pay attention to those who are trying to trivialise.

Mr Nkandu: Those that failed.

Laughter

Mr Simushi: Those that failed. They should not listen to them because we are on the right track. Further, let me mention, as the President pointed out, that charity begins at home. I think we need to inculcate in our children, at home, those values so that as they grow up and become leaders, they will be able to apply them correctly for the betterment of our country and development of mother Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing the voice of Roan Constituency to add to the debate and point out a few issues on the Address by His Excellency the President to Parliament on the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, I will just zero-in on three issues which are morality and ethics, patriotism and national unity and, indeed, social media. I want to agree with the President when he says that as a nation, we are still experiencing, as regards morality and ethics, some alcohol and substance abuse, teenage pregnancy, child marriage and, indeed, gender-based violence.

Madam Speaker, the President was spot-on. However, what is causing all these issues? I want to question the issue of substance abuse. Today, our children, teenagers or youths are involving themselves in a lot of negativities. We are seeing many deaths being caused by these children once they have imbibed substances.

Madam Speaker, the President actually said that we must be fully involved, as parents, because some of these things start right in our homes. As parents and Parliamentarians, do we know what our youths are doing in our sections, wards, constituencies and districts? Are we paying particular attention to seeing the behaviour of these children? It has now become a norm for children, when leaving home, be it girls or boys, to carry a small bag behind their back. Do we check these bags that our children carry? What do they carry?

Madam Speaker, that has caused a lot of pain. In terms of teenage pregnancy, that is also contributing because once they take alcohol and other substances, their thinking becomes impaired. As parents, we need to make sure that we check on our children; what time they leave and come back home.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, the President was also spot-on in terms of teenage pregnancies and child abuse, which, in many cases, starts right in our homes. We have heard of children being molested and abused by the people whom they live with. Some of these pregnancies actually come out of the same houses where uncles and other people close to these children abuse them. We need to do something as Parliamentarians, fathers and mothers.

Madam Speaker, I commend the Ministry of Gender for fighting and going flat out to find a solution to remove children who are on the streets.

Madam Speaker, some of those children come from better homes. We need to help and work, as leaders, to ensure that we protect them.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member debating, we do not have a Ministry of Gender.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, my apologies, and I am well guided. It is the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services.

Madam Speaker, I also want to zero-in on the issue of the collapsing or breaking down of marriages. The President is concerned, and it was just the other day that he was talking about so many cases of marriages breaking down. What is causing these issues? We need to work on this and ensure that we lessen the number of marriages breaking down.

Madam Speaker, these are the issues that are actually leading many youths going on to the streets and astray.

Madam Speaker, on patriotism and national unity, I also echo and point out that it is unpatriotic for any Zambian – of late, we have been talking, in this House, about the high numbers of human trafficking that are happening in our country. Honestly speaking, if one is a patriotic Zambian, how can one be abetting or aiding human trafficking?

Madam Speaker, to that extent, I thank the Government for coming up with the amendment of the Anti-Human Trafficking Act of 2022, which will actually lessen this human trafficking. However, as Zambians, poverty or hunger cannot be an excuse for involving ourselves into aiding or helping human trafficking.

Madam Speaker, it is a serious crime and it is actually going up, but as leaders, we need to help the President and the Government by ensuring that we fight this vice.

Madam Speaker, I was also elated and relieved when I heard the President talk about employing border guards. This is not a new phenomenon. We have heard of border guards in Europe and other jurisdictions. This is the right move which will actually help to even lessen the issue of human trafficking.

Madam Speaker, on social media, the President lamented that we are now abusing the use of social media. Social media itself is very well-intended and it is a good tool, but we tend to misuse it by posting hate and negative speeches including degrading or painting innocent people black. This must not be encouraged. Since the President talked about it, I hope we shall also be alert and ensure that we do not go that route.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members are not spared by social media abuse. We saw in the past, how hon. Members of Parliament were being posted on some of these platforms in a negative way.

Madam Speaker, I agree that indeed, social media has become a platform for people who want to defraud innocent ones. It is therefore, good that the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA), has actually moved in to help identify people who are using social media to defraud innocent and hardworking Zambians.

Madam Speaker, in short, from what I have read, the President came out very well on that issue. It is up to us to ensure that we help him encourage Zambians to have good morals and principles.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Roan Constituency, I want to thank you for according me time to air my voice on the President’s speech.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to add a voice to the speech on the progress made in the application of the national values and principles, which was delivered by the President.

Madam Speaker, before I proceed, I have a message from the people of Kabwe Central. The people of Kabwe Central thank the Government, Her Honour the Vice-President, and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, for launching the ceremony for the sale of mealie meal at the Zambia Correctional Service – Kabwe, yesterday, that will cost K150 for breakfast mealie meal. People are saying thank you very much for listening when I, as the hon. Member of Parliament, requested that we scale-up production for us to access cheap mealie meal. Thank you so much, we really appreciate.

Madam Speaker, I also want to mention that national values are beliefs of a nation guiding the actions and behaviours of its citizens. I want to support the speech by the President because it was on point. Indeed, as a country, we have seen that there is change in the country. We have seen a lot of positive behaviours, values and principles in our country.

Madam Speaker, when he addressed the House, the President mentioned six points such as morality, ethics and others. At the end of the speech, he talked about sustainable development.

Madam Speaker, morality is a system of principles and values that help one to distinguish what is good or bad. Ethics is something that governs a person’s behaviour. I want to emphasise that point number one is key to everything that was talked about. If one’s moral behaviour is up right, one cannot engage in corruption. The President mentioned that we have to work around the issue of curbing bad vices of corruption. We have seen that as a country, we have made progress. I can cite an example. We just signed a concession agreement for the upgrade of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriage Way yesterday. The negotiating team managed to bring it down to the minimal cost of US$577 million unlike what was inflated sometime back.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Laughter

Ms Halwiindi: If one is morally right, there is no way one can start adding ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Continue!

Interruptions

Ms Halwiindi: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I will continue.

If one is morally right, there is no way one can add a ka something to inflate the cost of something.

Madam Speaker, we have seen this happen before. However, we have made a lot of progress in terms of people realising that they have to be morally right in whatever they do. When we are morally right, we do not engage in corrupt practices, and that means that there will be sustainable development at the end of the day. We will not highly indebt the country because of the principles we follow. So, I concur with the President because, at least, we have made strides, and gone ahead to make sure that the principles and values are really followed in this country.

Madam Speaker, if a person is morally upright, that person cannot raise a hand to kill a fellow human being, worse still a woman. The President said that we had made strides because there is a lot of sensitisation happening in the country. However, I feel there is still more to be done. We need to make sure that we bring the Gender Based Violence (GBV) devices to a minimal level, if not zero, because we do not need to kill a fellow human being or see the women suffering, especially in homes. So, I think the country has made a lot of progress in that aspect.

Madam Speaker, the President also talked about the high levels of divorce in the country. If one is morally right, one cannot divorce one’s partner unless it goes beyond the levels where one feels that one can no longer live with one’s spouse because one’s life is threatened. So, we need to make sure that we scale up interventions aimed at addressing domestic violence. If we have high levels of divorce, we will see many street kids. Children will not be able to go to school because families will not unite to help raise them. So, we will see many people on the streets. As a country, we need to make sure that we scale up interventions to address this. Divorce is not good for the country, and it is detrimental to see many broken homes.

Madam Speaker, if a person is morally right, that person cannot marry a young child and destroy its future. So, we also have to make sure that we scale up interventions on early marriages, and teenage pregnancies. We urge the people to desist from devices that cause the young people to leave school or maybe go to the streets to become destitute, and as single mothers in the case of young girls. Street kids increase in number on the streets because of all these devices.

Madam Speaker, the President also talked about social media. Social media is good, as the hon. Member for Roan said, but it has become poisonous, especially for the younger generation. My main concern is that, sometimes, elderly people misuse social media platforms by posting negative sentiments that disturb our children who cannot even distinguish what is right from wrong, and they perpetrate vices such spread hate speech. We are not showing a good example to the younger generation in the content we share on social media. As elderly people, especially as politicians and leaders, we should make sure that we help our children by filtering what we share on social media. We need to be responsible enough so that we are able to build this country.

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about sustainable development. If, as a country, our morals are right and have good ethics, we will see national unity. There is no way we can see division. When we are united, we will make sure that we speak with one voice.

Madam Speaker, allow me to comment on the Motion that was on the Floor of this House. When one is morally right, one is given eight hours in which to perform one’s duties and get the work done. However, it is immoral to evaluate a person based on what one achieved in the given work hours, and it just equals to thirty minutes or an hour of productivity. Even when we want to ask for more working hours, let us, first, utilise the hours we are given to work and to be productive. So, if we are productive enough and morally right, we will make sure that we work according to the hours we are given to perform, and we will see sustainable development in our country. I thought I should mention that point.

Madam Speaker, before I conclude, let me say that there is repentance before forgiveness. One hon. Member said that we should forgive. However, let us be repentant. There is no way God can forgive you if you are not repentant. When we repent and realise that what we are doing is wrong, we will be able to see forgiveness and national unity.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Your time is up.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1910 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 2^nd March, 2023.

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