Tuesday, 21^st February, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

VOLUNTARY COVID-19 TESTING

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI) has been authorised to conduct a voluntary Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) testing for hon. Members of Parliament and staff.

The exercise will take place on Wednesday, 22^nd February, 2023, here at Parliament Main Buildings, from 1030 hours to 1300 hours. Interested hon. Members are encouraged to test and get a COVID-19 booster vaccine.

I thank you.

POPULATION COUNCIL OF ZAMBIA SEMINAR

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Friday, 17^th February, 2023, I informed the House that the Population Council of Zambia, in conjunction with the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the Partnership for Maternal, New-borns and Child Health, has been authorised to conduct a half-day seminar under the theme “The Role of Parliamentarians in Improving Women, Children and Adolescents’ Health, including Nutrition.”

The seminar was scheduled for Wednesday, 22^nd February, 2023. I wish to inform the House that the seminar has been postponed to a date yet to be communicated.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR JAY E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MRS NALUMANGO, ON FLOODS IN PETAUKE

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter is directed at the Leader of Government Business …

Hon. Members: Ah!

Mr J. E. Banda: Why do you want to intervene? You have your constituencies. So, represent your constituencies. Do not open your mouths anyhow. There is Madam Speaker there.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, as you raise your matter of urgent public importance, please, be advised that you are not supposed to engage other hon. Members in the House. Speak through the Speaker and raise your matter of urgent public importance, precisely and concisely.

You may proceed.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I am sure they have heard.

Laughter

Hon. Member: Who are those?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, in Petauke Central Constituency, yesterday, –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, the matter of urgent public importance is directed at which hon. Minister?

Mr J. E. Banda: The Leader of Government Business in the House, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: You may proceed.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, we experienced heavy rains in Petauke Central yesterday, which destroyed more than 200 houses. They have left people homeless and without any food, as I speak.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: I am sure that even those people who are making noise do not follow your guidelines, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

I am asking for your protection.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, as I guided, please, just raise the matter of urgent public importance. Do not engage and try to entertain the hon. Members. Just raise the point seriously. You say that it is a matter of urgent public importance. So, I assume you will raise whatever you are trying to raise in a serious manner and not make a joke of it.

You may proceed.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

My people are waiting to hear from me, their hon. Member of Parliament, but there are some hon. Members who want to disturb me.

Madam Speaker, as I speak, my people, the more than 200 families, who are affected in my constituency, do not have where to sleep, and what to eat because their food was destroyed. Their beddings and their houses were destroyed. Ng’anda zonse zefwaika. Vakulya vonse ve onongeka. As I speak, apa, anga fwe na njala.

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Meaning that they do not have food or where to sleep and can even die of hunger right now. So, I am asking the Leader of Government Business in the House to intervene in the way she has intervened in other constituencies.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you said which area is affected, Kabwe?

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, it is Petauke Central Constituency, Nyika Ward.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, I have heard.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON THE  LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MRS NALUMANGO, ON LOAD SHEDDING IN LUNDAZI, CHASEFU AND LUMEZI

Mr Munir Zulu: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, you are very kind for permitting the people of Lumezi to raise an important matter of urgent public importance directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, in my hands, I have a letter from the good people of Lumezi, Lundazi and Chasefu constituencies asking the police to grant them a permit to demonstrate against load shedding. These three districts have had serious power shortages. I know Her Honour the Vice-President, last week, Friday, did indicate, when the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi raised a matter of load shedding, that we were are alarming the nation. I must mention that the people are saying that the answers that were given were not sufficient. What is obtaining is that mothers who are due for delivery and the medium-scale businessmen are having difficulties due to power outages. The bodies are decomposing in the mortuaries because of load shedding and people are saying that we are alarming the nation when we talk about it. 

Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of this privilege, as a representative of the people Lumezi, to mention that due to the answers that we got last week, we demand for people outside the realm of politics like Engineer Abel Ng’andu to start answering on behalf of the Government. We cannot allow the people –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lumezi, please, stick to your lane. This is time to ask matters of urgent public importance and not to rate how the questions were answered. That is outside your realm.

May you proceed.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you.

It is sad that what is not considered as urgent and important to those who are connected to the national grid is not important for the people of Lumezi, Lundazi and Chasefu.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious indulgence on this matter. For purposes of your office, permit me to lay this letter that was addressed to the officer commanding at the Lundazi Police Station on the Table.

Madam Speaker: Is it a public document?

Mr Munir Zulu: Yes.

Madam Speaker: If not, is it certified as a true copy? Was it made available to my office for verification?

Mr Munir Zulu: Not to your office, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Then it does not qualify.

MR KAFWAYA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNTE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, DR MUSOKOTWANE, ON DISCRIMINATORY TREATMENT OF SOME OFFICERS AT THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING AND THE AUDITOR-GENERAL’S OFFICE

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to rise on a matter of urgent public importance, which I direct at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, and I am happy he has joined us today.

Madam Speaker, this matter occurred recently and it relates to the unfair, illegal and discriminatory treatment of senior officers at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the Office of the Auditor-General.

Madam Speaker, recently, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning issued a press statement and indicated that the Government had transferred people from his ministry on account of investigations. That position was reaffirmed by another press statement which was issued by the Secretary to the Cabinet. These officers who were transferred are appearing before the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) for investigations on the Public Accounts Committee allowances they obtained as authorised by the National Assembly of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the destabilisation of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is a huge problem for the Republic of Zambia because the ministry superintends the Central Bank, which superintends all banking institutions. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning superintends the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and the Pensions and Insurance Authority (PIA). This means that the entire financial sector of our republic is managed by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Its destabilisation by the unfair and illegal treatment of senior officers …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: … is a concern to me as a patriotic Zambian.

Madam Speaker, some of my hon. Colleagues may not know that the problems arising from there affect the global financial sector, including the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, from what I am hearing from some of my hon. Colleagues, it may be in order for people to be unfairly treated or discriminated against, which is illegal. I say so because the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will inform this House that the special audit report which was the basis of this action is actually an illegal report. Why? It is because the Secretary to the Treasury who manages the controller of the internal audit did not sanction it. Therefore, my –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you are now debating your matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my issue is: Why should the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, whom I am completely convinced has nothing to do with this mistreatment of people, be seated comfortably without intervening in this illegal, unfair and discriminatory treatment of his officers and those at the Auditor-General’s office?

I seek your serious direction on the matter, Madam Speaker.

MR KANGOMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR SESHEKE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, DR MUSOKOTWANE, ON THE SESHEKE/KAZUNGULA ROAD

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to raise a matter of urgent public importance. It is on record that time and again, we have cried on the Floor of the House with regard to the status of the Sesheke/Kazungula Road. This is a road of economic value to this country because it does not only service the people of Sesheke, Mwandi, Mulobezi and Kazungula but, the entire nation.  This is how important this road is.

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that as we speak, the road is trending as one of the worst roads globally. If you search on YouTube, you will definitely come across the Sesheke/Kazungula Road as one of the worst roads.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in order to sit there comfortably when one of his wheels of commerce, the Sesheke/Kazungula Road, has completely become impassable during this season?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. I will start with the matter that was raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central against the Leader of Government Business in the House, concerning the rain that has destroyed houses and food stuffs in his constituency, in particular, Nyika Ward.

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, you know that this is the rainy season and the rain has destroyed houses. We have seen people moving from their homes because of the floods in Lusaka, particularly, Kamwala South. We have seen children drowning when trying to swim. So, this is a general state of affairs. Currently, we are in the rainy season. I have seen a newspaper report that we expect a cyclone which is going to hit us maybe, tomorrow or the day after.

So, we should be prepared for that weather pattern. In the rainy season, we must be prepared for the consequences that may arise. The best we can do is engage the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to see what measures can be taken such as move the people, give them food or other emergency measures that can be taken to alleviate their suffering. So, I advise the hon. Member to engage the DMMU to see how it can assist the people in his constituency.

The next matter of urgent public importance was raised by the hon. Member for Lumezi, on load shedding in Chasefu, Lundazi and Lumezi. He said that the people in those areas are asking for a permit to protest against load shedding. I know that we discussed this matter. The whole of last week, we were talking about electricity that is coming from Malawi. However, since the hon. Minister of Energy is here, maybe, he can shed some light on that issue.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, we are aware that there is a situation in Lundazi, Chasefu, Lumezi as well as Chama. Those areas are connected to Malawi. I presented a report that ZESCO Limited is carrying out works in substations so that eventually, it can connect the areas affected to the national grid. If I am right, it should be able to connect them by the end of next year. However, we will look into the situation, and I will present a report in Parliament as soon as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that.

So, hon. Member for Lumezi, the Government is aware of the situation and something is being done about it. The hon. Minister will come and present a report on how the works are going.

The next matter of urgent public importance was raised by the hon. Member for Lunte. This item has made headlines in the newspapers. Before I react in detail to the concerns that have been raised by the hon. Member for Lunte, today, there was an article in one newspaper that the Director-General of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is prepared to explain to the hon. Members of Parliament who are disputing the wrongs that happened at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. So, this is not something that we can condemn without knowing the facts on the ground.

Hon. Member for Lunte, you raised this matter on Friday. You asked the Leader of Government Business about it and she responded, but you are again bringing it up. In accordance with Standing Order 67 of our Standing Orders, repetitious questions are not allowed. In any event, the Government is aware and investigations are being carried out. As you have said, the officers involved are appearing before the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) or the ACC. So, the investigations are ongoing. Let us allow the investigations to proceed without any interference from anyone. If those people are innocent, they will be cleared. There is no need to worry. However, I think everyone should be worried that some people are supporting the removal of those people while others are against their removal. Government money has been lost and it is not little money; it is a lot of money.

Hon. Member, if you are aware of the details like some of us are, you would not even raise a finger. You would wait to see that the investigations are carried out to the satisfaction of everyone. So, let us not worry about unfair, illegal and unjust treatment. According to the conditions of service, if you are found wanting, you can either be transferred or suspended. In this case, the officers have just been transferred. They should have been suspended so that investigations can be carried out. So, let us not worry about that. However, the hon. Minister is here. He can say something on the issue.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I thank you for an opportunity to further clarify on this matter.

Madam Speaker, as you have said, suspicions were raised, and the culture of this Government is not to sweep any suspicions under the carpet.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, you will notice that this is in contrast to what happened before. For example, under the previous Government, hon. Ministers would be arrested, but they would be left to sit in their offices, thereby hampering investigations.

Madam Speaker, you will recall that under the previous Government, a number of people were injured, and some were even killed in cold blood; Mr Kaunda was lying on the floor with blood flowing out. For that matter to be investigated, there had to be an uproar in society. As I speak, the cases of those who were killed have not been investigated.

Hon. PF Members: Is there any connection?

Madam Speaker: Order!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, in light of this, suspicions were raised, and this Government could not act like in the previous Government where suspicions were raised and nothing was done. This Government decided to do something, in other words, investigate. Now, if you are going to investigate people, unlike in the past, you have to make sure that they evacuate their offices so that witnesses and other investigators are free to investigate without any hindrance, and this is what has happened.

Madam Speaker, I also want to say that those transactions did not take place under this Government; they took place when our colleagues, in the Patriotic Front (PF), were in the Government. Investigations are investigations. If it will be found out that the officers have no case to answer, nothing will happen to them. However, if it is discovered that when they were in office, illegal transactions took place, then obviously, the due process of the law must take its course. So, there is no reason, whatsoever, for us to be concerned and think that we are trying to molest innocent people. It is nothing like that. It is just following the good process of good governance. There is no need for the people who are here or those who are affected to panic. Let us just maintain our cool. Let the investigative agencies do their work.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Since the hon. Minister has made a comment, and just in case there are other comments or hon. Members want to ask questions, our Standing Orders state that I can allow hon. Members to ask questions. So, we can have a session of questions on points of clarification on this matter.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. I have listened to my colleague, the hon. Member for Lunte and I think what was central to his question was that the source of information that was used in the action that the Government took was an illegal audit. The hon. Minister is right when he says that this was way back during the time of the Patriotic Front (PF). Yes, we agree and that the audit report that he referred to, was an illegal audit. That is how come we have that information. So, maybe, that is the point that we want the hon. Minister to speak to; the illegal audit report, a report that was not sanctioned by the Secretary to the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to comment on that particular audit report.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House, clarify what he means when he says that the audit report was not sanctioned by the Secretary to the Treasury. Which Secretary to the Treasury is he referring to? Is he talking about the Secretary to the Treasury under the PF, who may have something to answer in this particular case…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: …or, is he talking about the current Secretary to the Treasury?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile stood to speak.

Madam Speaker: We will not have a question and answer session. Each hon. Member is just allowed to ask a question just once. So, hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House, you have had your chance.

Mr Mundubile resumed his seat.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, we agree that we should react to complaints that are coming from members of the public rapidly like they are doing because we cannot wait to see those who are looting Sugilite in Luapula Province, stealing minerals and are being escorted by the police –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, ask a question on the point that is on the Floor of the House. Do not bring in extraneous matters which are not under consideration.

You may proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, the hon. Minister went all the way talking about people who were killed during our time and we have got a responsibility to respond to him accordingly. Sugilite, which is being looted in Luapula –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Could the hon. Minister share with us which audit report necessitated the action which the Government has taken. As we speak, we are considering the Auditor-General’s Report through the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). So, could the hon. Minister clarify, through this august House, which audit report necessitated the action that the Government has taken, so that we can be clear. I think that will settle the question the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House was asking. Sugilite, we want culprits.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

According to Standing Order No.136, this session is timed. It should not take more than one hour. So, it is going to be timed.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Madam Speaker, a suspicion is a suspicion.

Mr Kambita: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: That suspicion can come from any source. It can come from an auditing process, a whistle-blower, an internal audit, …

Mr Mwene: Even the police!

Dr Musokotwane: …even the police, yes. Once it comes and it seems to have substance that requires that you must follow up, you follow up. So, the issue as to whether this report came from this one or that one is totally irrelevant. Even Hon. Kampyongo is talking about some stones that are being smuggled. He must go to the police or the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). They will not say because you are Hon. Kampyongo, you are not an Auditor-General, we will not listen to you. They will not do that. They will follow up.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I am very concerned about the response that has come from the hon. Minister. I am concerned because the hon. Minister will have no respect to whether the procedure follows the law or it is against the law as long as he picks up some suspicion, he is going to act. The issue, which I directed to the hon. Minister is the unfairness, illegality and injustice. The person who signed this illegal audit which I am talking about got the same allowances. He used to come in those committee rooms and got allowances. He removed his name. He has been rewarded today with a promotion. Two directors have been rewarded with promotions.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Their friends –

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders are very clear. Standing Order No. 65 demands that hon. Members must be factual in their discourse. Is the hon. Member for Lunte in order to allege that somebody has been rewarded with a promotion based on the actionshe took in favour of the Government? Does he have any facts to lay on the Table? Otherwise, he will mislead the whole nation.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: To the extent that the hon. Member for Lunte has said that some people have been rewarded for having received allowances, I think, the hon. Member is out of order. However, what is important, hon. Member for Lunte, is that there are investigations that are on-going. Once investigations are concluded, then everybody who will be found culpable will be dealt with. So, let us not pre-empt the investigations.

You may proceed.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, in the last Parliament, I was privileged to belong to two Committees; the Planning and Budgeting Committee and the Committee on Parastatal Bodies. These are very important Committees which were dealing with the Auditor-General. So, I am aware that these directors were getting those allowances sanctioned by this assembly. The issue of the quantum will never bother me because I know people who get allowances everyday of their lives.

Madam Speaker, is it okay for the hon. Minister to justify that he does not care even if this audit report which was signed by Ringo Zulu, who is now sitting as Controller of Internal Audit, even though it was illegal, it is a good source of information? Is that fair?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, what amazes me is that each time there is an investigation into something, there is always a tendency by our hon. Colleagues to want to frustrate it.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lunte Constituency, please, resume your seat.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I think that each time there is a suspicion is aroused, it should be a normal duty for all of us, as a country, to say, “Yes, let it be investigated.”

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: We should not have a situation in which, each time there is a suspicion, people want to say, “No, this is illegal.” No, that is not the way to lead.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: If the hon. Member for Lunte Constituency believes that the person he is talking about did something wrong, as an hon. Member of Parliament and an ordinary citizen, it is within his right to avail himself to investigating agencies and say, “Here is the information that you need to follow up.”

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: It is not to say, “Do not investigate because A was also involved.” No. So, if he has that information, he should go and avail it to the investigators, and they will evaluate whether it makes sense; just like for all these other people. They will evaluate the information, and if it is found that they are innocent, I will be very happy because some of those officers are the most competent in the country.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, however, that one is competent does not mean that when suspicion is raised against one, one is beyond reproach, no.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: That is not the way to govern. I hope, through what we are doing now, this is an opportunity for our colleagues to reflect, as politicians, and say, “You see, our hon. Colleagues are doing things in the right direction as opposed to the way we used to do them.”

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I sincerely thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, generally speaking, the doctrine of Separation of Powers dictates that Parliament offers oversight on the work of the Executive, to which the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning belongs. Of course, and unfortunately, we have these crossovers where some of the Executive members are part of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, it is expected that this House should check on what the Executive did. Does the hon. Minister not find it strange that Parliament is now trying to defend the people it is supposed to be checking?

Mr Mubika: Just imagine.

Mr Kambita: Kindly explain, really, what the role of Parliamentarians would be in a matter like this one where it has been reported that funds have been embezzled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much, and Hon. Kambita, Member of Parliament for Zambezi East, for that statement. I agree 100 per cent with it.

Mr Kafwaya: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: It is just my prayer that the hon. Colleagues on the left have listened to that statement very carefully because that is the way things should be.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The last question will come from the hon. Member for Luena Constituency.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, following up on Hon. Kambita’s question given this very strange development where the legislature is standing up to defend the Executive and the signals coming from parts of the legislature, will the ministry and the law enforcement agencies handling this matter consider expanding the scope and reach of this investigation to ensure that the money trail is followed? It looks like –

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, my point of order relates to the hon. Member for Zambezi East.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the reason to be, the raison de’etre of Parliament. One of its responsibilities is to make laws. If we are law makers, should we sit idle in the face of illegality? Must people question when we question the Executive for perpetuating illegality? That is very strange because as far as I am concerned, we are here to make laws and when we do, we must ensure that they are implemented by the Executive. Whenever we feel that the Executive is not implementing the laws, we have the right to stand and defend them. It should, therefore, not be strange for anybody to suggest that in defence of the laws we make, we are committing an illegality or defending the Executive, indeed.

Madam Speaker, exploiting my position as the Leader of the Opposition, I thought I should stand up and just ensure that our friends on the right are performing their functions in a legal way as opposed to them perpetuating illegalities whilst we sit back and watch.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, the functions of the legislature are, firstly, to make laws; secondly, to represent; and thirdly, to provide oversight. So, the issue that Hon. Kambita was referring to is in relation to the provision of oversight and not in relation to the making of laws and the implementation thereof. So, to that extent, the hon. Member for Zambezi East was in order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Luena, you may proceed.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

The question I was posing to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was: Given that some hon. Members in some section of the legislature, some of whom happened to have been members of the Executive in the past regime, are standing up so strongly to defend what is currently just an investigation, to oppose it, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether his ministry and the relevant law enforcement agencies looking at this matter consider expanding the scope and the terms of reference so that the money trail is followed to its logical end? This kind of behaviour by hon. Members of the Legislature is strange and should be sending signals.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. It is the first time, in the long time that I have been here, to hear hon. Members debate each other in the manner we are trying to do.

My point of order is premised on Standing Order 65. Is the hon. Member for Luena in order to insinuate that we, who are trying to question the action of the Executive, are doing anything shorter than offering oversight functions on our colleagues in the Executive?

Madam Speaker, we shall be coming to talk about this sugilite which borders on the investigations. People are looting minerals, but we have remained reserved. Are our hon. Colleagues in order –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we have some order in the House, order!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, no one here has told the Executive not to investigate or audit. In this House, we deal with audit reports because that is our work. We can be the last ones to deny the Executive an opportunity to participate in the audit. Are our hon. Colleagues in order to insinuate that by asking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to verify and clarify the action the Government took, we are protecting people from being investigated?

I seek you serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, we are not supposed to debate ourselves, but issues out there. The hon. Member for Luena asked the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning whether he was going to extend the scope of investigations and the terms of reference to the people who were in the Executive at that time. So, I do not know whether the members who were involved and were in the Executive then, are here.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Maybe, they are not even here. So, the hon. Member for Luena was not out of order.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Luena for that wise suggestion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: I can only say that it is the sprit that has led him to express such kind of wisdom.

Madam Speaker, I have taken note of everything. I am not an investigator, but I will just convey that suggestion to those who are responsible for investigations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, you need to remind my hon. Colleagues that I am the owner of the question to the hon. Minister. So, I am entitled to two questions.

Madam Speaker, I raised an issue of an illegality in the audit report. I also stated the unfairness of the Government by highlighting or cherry-picking just a few people. Now that the illegal audit is okay, according to the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, is the hon. Minister going to consider adding the following five people who got the same allowances at that same time, namely, Mulele Mulele, Director; Willis Chipango, Director; Ringo Zulu, who has been elevated to position of Controller of Internal Audit; Joyce Sundano, who was the Controller of Internal Audit at that time; and Sandra Kawana, who has been elevated to position of Director?

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, will these also be reported to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) the same way the others have been reported?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning respond, although, I was not even following.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I am not in a position to bring specific names here.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

Dr Musokotwane: No! You are asking me to go and report those people you have mentioned.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane: So, what I am saying is that I cannot comment on –

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I am very concerned this afternoon. My concern is in the manner in which we are transacting Business in this people’s Assembly. There is a clear dichotomy between oversight function and attempting to run a Government using the backdoor.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, what begun –

Mr Kalimi: Which standing order!

Mr Nkombo: I made a declaration that I am not quoting any specific Standing Order, but I am worried with the manner ...

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: ... in which –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, it will be helpful if you cite the Standing Order.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: I will ride on Standing Order 65 ...

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: ... which compels us to first be factual, have verifiable information.

Madam Speaker, having said so, it is clear from where I am seating that the hon. Members of Parliament from the Patriotic Front (PF), the former Ruling Party, are collecting information from the Government system. Going by what Mr Kafwaya read from his phone, it is very clear that there is somebody within the Government machinery who is feeding information in.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, my point of order is serious ...

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen.

Mr Nkombo: ... and is now overbearing. I will tell the House why it is overbearing. I say that there is a clear dichotomy between wanting to run a Government, failing to accept that they lost elections, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: ... and providing an oversight role.

Madam Speaker, the example I will give you in order for you to appreciate where I am coming from in raising my point of order is that ...

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: ... not so long ago, the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, transferred one member of his staff in State House to a foreign Mission and there was uproar from those who were in Government then.

Madam Speaker, I am giving a clear example of an administrative adjustment. In his maiden answer, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was very clear that this was an administrative investigation and that, if the officers who had been cited in this which may seem to be an irregularity are found to be innocent, they would go back and resume their employment. As it is, they are just transferred.

Is it in order that we can spend one whole hour because of a group of people who lost elections, ...

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: ... but want to run the Government illegally from the Opposition benches by disrespecting the will of the people of Zambia who voted them out and are still in an illusion ...

Madam Speaker: Order, order, hon. Minister!

Mr Nkombo: ... that ale bwelelapo pa mupando.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Hon. Minister, please, let us not try to provoke the situation in the House. Let bygones be bygones. The point of order that you have raised is on a matter that was raised as a matter of urgent public importance. According to our Standing Orders, when an hon. Minister reacts, hon. Members have a right to ask questions. The session can run for at least one hour. So, that is what we were doing. It is a pity that the same questions keep coming. However, what is important is that there is an ongoing investigation. As the hon. Minister has stated, if the people are not found wanting, they will continue doing their work. If found wanting, they will face the law. So, there is nothing to worry about or protect.

Hon. Member for Lunte, if you want more information about this issue, you can come to my office.    

So, please let us stick to the issues.

That concludes that session. Let us leave the investigative wings to carry out their responsibilities.

Let us move to Sesheke.

The hon. Member for Sesheke raised a matter of urgent public importance relating to the Kazungula/Sesheke Road, which is in a deplorable state.

Hon. Member for Sesheke, the issue of roads affects everyone across the country. The Mpika Road is also in a terrible state, including the road leading to the hon. Member for Mitete’s constituency. Many roads are in a deplorable state, so this matter does not qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance. Let us call on the relevant institutions to provide funds to repair the roads, and I am sure there are enough funds.

I can see that the hon. Minister wants to say something on the issue of the roads.

Dr Musokotwane: Speaker, I thank you, and I thank the hon. Member for Sesheke for that question.

Madam Speaker, you have stated correctly that many roads in the country require urgent attention. Of course, the heavy rainfall this year has only made things worse. However, among the many roads in the country that require attention, the Government has decided to prioritise the ones that connect us to the outside world because they are our trading routes. When the trading routes are impassable, it becomes difficult to trade properly. The three roads that require to be worked on, which I am talking about, are the Sesheke/Kazungula Road, the Mpika/Serenje Road, and the stretch on the Great East Road up to the Luangwa Bridge. I am happy to say that the negotiations with the World Bank have advanced. I am confident that the money to work on those three important international trading routes will be made available this year.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, when the people who come from Liuwa say something, they mean it. We do not make empty promises like what our hon. Colleagues used to.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Sesheke, rest assured that the Government is aware and is attending to your concern. Would you like to ask a question? I can see that your microphone is on.

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to comment rather than ask a question.

Madam Speaker, from the time I have known the hon. Minister, he has never disappointed me, not even in the sweetest dreams of my life, or ever misled the House. The people of Sesheke, Mwandi, Mulobezi, the rest of the country and I have confidence in him. I pray by God’s divine providence that by the end of this year, as the hon. Minister has rightly put it, the works on the aforementioned roads will definitely commence.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to raise a serious point of order. Today, I have not raised any point of order apart from this one.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 65.

Madam Speaker, the poor people of Petauke and Zambia at large look up to us as their leaders to provide leadership when they have problems. When we bring matters here, they listen attentertively…

Laughter

Hon. Member: E chisungu icho! Naupya!

Mr J. E. Banda: … to what we bring to the House. However, instead of us taking those matters seriously – Right now, they do not have food and where to sleep, but if it was an hon. Member who was suffering, this Parliament would have closed.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Petauke Central, we have a lot of work to do according to the Order Paper. So, let us not raise points of order that do not arise from a breach that has occurred on the Floor of the House. If you want to raise a point of order, go specifically to the point, and state the Standing Order that has been breached.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, I have brought up an issue on the Floor of the House, yet hon. Members of Parliament are making noise. Their children are not suffering the way my people in Petauke are suffering; they do not have food and where to sleep. This is a serious situation that you can approve as a matter of urgent public importance. However, because of the hon. Members’ noise, you did not even approve it as a matter of urgent public importance. I do not know what I can do for my people. Tomorrow, I will not be in the House because I need to provide them with where to sleep and what to eat. Right now, some are in the hospital, but they do not have money to pay. However, we go to Coptic –

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Petauke Central, you are definitely out of order.

Hon. Member for Chinsali, do you want to ask a question on the issue of the road?

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister was giving the direction on the three roads, he said that money would be made available this year. How soon do we expect to get an update as to when the contractors will start working on the three important roads that he highlighted in his response, namely the Sesheke/Kazungula Road, the Mpika/Serenje Road and the stretch along the Great East Road?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, my job is to look for money, and I have indicated to the House that I am confident that the money has been found. As for the technical details that the hon. Member is referring to, that is not my job. So, when the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is in the House, maybe, the hon. Member may wish to raise that question again.

I thank you.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, the people of Sinazongwe are delighted that the hon. Minister has indicated that the Sesheke/Kazungula Road as well as part of the Great East Road up to Luangwa Bridge will be worked on.

Madam Speaker, we are in the same dilemma as the people of Mulobezi or Sesheke because the Batoka/Maamba Road is in a deplorable state, if not worse. At any time, the people of Sinazongwe may be cut off from the rest of the country. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development assured me that that road is under the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) programme, and that it will be worked on this year.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development never indicated whether in his lifetime he has lied before. Since the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said that he has never lied in his lifetime, can he assure the people of Sinazongwe that the Batoka/Maamba Road will be worked on under a PPP?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Sinazongwe, you are addressing your question to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, whom you had a discussion with and he assured you that the road is going to be attended to this year. I believe the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was not in attendance when you were discussing that. So, we can save him that assurance. You can follow it up with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

We are almost exhausting this segment. I saw that the last question was going to be asked by the hon. Member for Mkaika. The other ones are late indications and, therefore, they will not be taken.

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, I just want clarification on the three roads that the hon. Minister has mentioned. I especially want clarity on the issue of the Great East Road because we have the Chanida Road that leads to Mozambique. This is a very important economic road, but the hon. Minister has not mentioned it here. Is it part of the three roads in question?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, once again, I want to state that the need is overwhelming and it is recognised. However, the money that is available now is what I have said. We are going to work on the road from Sesheke to Kazungula and the Mpika to Serenje Road. On the Great North Road, there are portions that are already being worked on by the European Union (EU), I believe. We also have the stretch from Chongwe to the Luangwa Bridge. So, at the moment, the Chanida Road is not included in that programme because the money does not extend there.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members who want to ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning about the respective roads can quietly do so at their own time so that we make progress.

_______

STATEMENT BY THE VICE-PRESIDENT

TRUCKS MAROONED ONTHE KITWE/CHINGOLA DUAL CARRIAGEWAY

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to present a statement on the trucks marooned on the Kitwe/Chingola Dual Carriageway between Chambeshi and Chingola. The statement is in response to the matter of urgent public importance which was raised by Hon. Kampamba Mulenga, Member of Parliament for Kalulushi Constituency, last week, on Tuesday, 14^th February, 2023.

Madam, as the House may recall, the Hon. Madam Speaker directed that a statement be issued by the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. However, due to the cross-cutting nature of the issues raised by the hon. Member, the Hon. Madam Speaker, through the Clerk’s office, guided that the statement, instead, be issued by my office.

Madam Speaker, I inform the House and the nation at large that the Government is fully aware of the continued traffic congestion on the Zambian roads leading to the Kasumbalesa Border Post, which has necessitated various meetings between the Zambian authorities and their counterparts in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) among border agencies.

Madam Speaker, my Government has held various high-level engagements with the DRC authorities and other stakeholders, aimed at resolving the problem of traffic congestion along the road leading to the Kasumbalesa Border Post. Some of the high-level meetings include the following:

1. a meeting was held on Saturday, 11^th February 2023, chaired by the Commissioner- General of the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and attended by the Commissioner Customs and all border agencies present at the Kasumbalesa Border, Chililabombwe District Joint Operation Committee (DJOC) and the press. The objective of this meeting was to identify the main causes of the problem and come up with measures to resolve it;
2. the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt Province and DRC Haut Katanga Governor Jacques Katwe had a meeting, in which the DRC had agreed to extend working hours at the Kasumbalesa Border Post to clear over 2,000 trucks which are marooned on the Zambian side; and
3. on the sidelines of the 36^thOrdinary Session of the Assembly of the African Union (AU), His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, held a bilateral meeting with Mr Félix Tshisekedi, His Excellency the President of the DRC. The meeting was centred on resolving the challenges at the Kasumbalesa Border Post.

Madam Speaker, the following are some of the identified causes of the traffic congestion on the Zambian roads leading to the Kasumbalesa Border Post:

1. non-adherence to operating hours at the border between ZRA and the DRC customs authorities. Whereas the ZRA works from 0600 hours to 2000 hours, as agreed by the two countries, the Congolese authorities open their side as late as 0700 hours and close as early as 1800 hours;
2. the borders that feed traffic into the Kasumbalesa Border, that is, the Chanida, Nakonde, Katima Mulilo, Chirundu and Kazungula, work longer hours, some as late as 2200 hours, which leads to more trucks piling up at Kasumbalesa;
3. the rain and wet conditions have reduced the holding capacity of the truck yard at the Kasumbalesa Border to an average of 900 trucks against 1,850 in the dry season. This has mainly contributed to the extent of the highway queue;
4. the dilapidated road leading to the border, and mainly at the market, has led to increased breakdowns and the consequent slow traffic movement; and
5. most drivers prefer to pay late exit penalties on the Zambian side, where the security situation is better than on the DRC side and, therefore, do not proceed when it is late.

Madam Speaker, I now inform the House and the nation at large of the mitigating measures the Government is taking to address the situation. In the short-term, the following are the measures the Government is taking:

1. engagement with the DRC customs authorities, which have continued through various platforms. This is aimed at improving daily output through increased document processing on their side and observance of harmonised border operating hours to allow for traffic flow into the DRC;
2. multi-stake engagements with a focus on having trucks ready to exit into the DRC accorded this opportunity without parking on the Zambian side by creating a dedicated free-lane for expedient movements;
3. drivers are vigorously being engaged and those who have already paid are made to move out of the parking yard;
4. the Immigration Department has allowed drivers to move up to the Kasumbalesa border without having to pass through inland offices like Chingola or Kitwe to extend their visas when the seven days transit period expires. They have another option of applying for a fourteen days business visa which is more flexible under the current situation. In this regard, the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Truck Drivers is engaging its members for publicity;
5. patching of the road leading to the border is under way and work is going on;
6. the House may also wish to note that transit days have been extended to twelve days to ensure clearing agents’ accounts are not suspended after the statutory five days. In addition, consignments for credible agents are being facilitated through special release and monitoring system to exit ports;
7. the ZRA is reviewing its staffing levels at the border with a view to sending additional staff to improve clearance time; and
8. further, a combined team of officers from the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and the Zambia Police Service (ZP) from Chingola and Chililabombwe has been constituted and is working 24/7 facilitating traffic movements to avoid road blockages and road traffic accidents. This team has also developed a robust communication system which ensures perfect co-ordination.

Madam Speaker, in order to address the health and sanitation challenges being posed by this situation, the following measures have been taken:

1.  the Government, through the Zambia Army, has been providing water to the drivers on the queue using water bowsers everyday, starting from last week. This will continue into the next month. To this effect, the ZRA donated 300 litres of diesel to support this activity while another 75 litres of fuel per week has been pledged by a private company to support water distribution;
2. ten units of mobile toilets were secured and have since been delivered for use on site and the Government is making frantic efforts to secure more toilets on the affected stretch. The construction of toilet facilities is being considered by the joint team of the ZRA and the Zambia National Service (ZNS) currently on site at the Kasumbalesa …

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, there is a lot of talking. We are not listening to the statement that is being rendered by the Her Honour the Vice-President. The matter was raised as a Matter of Urgent Public Importance, but I am surprised that we are not paying attention. Can we have order in the House?

May Her Honour the Vice-President proceed.

The Vice-President: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

1. the Ministry of Health is scaling up sensitisation activities in order to prevent both notifiable and communicable diseases such as Cholera and HIV/AIDs.

Madam Speaker, in the medium to long-term, the Government is taking the following measures:

1. process harmonisation – the National Trade Facilitation Committee (NTFC), under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, will merge and harmonise pay points for charges and fees into a single payment point using the Zambia Electronic Single Window (ZESW) by June 2023. Further, the Government will engage with its DRC counterparts and facilitate implementation of 24-hour operations on key shared borders with the DRC; at Kasumbalesa, Sakania, Mokambo, Kipushi and Chembe where, currently, border operating hours are mainly limited from 0600 to 1800 hours;
2. security – the Joint Permanent Commission (JPC) between Zambia and the DRC will need to address the security concerns that have been persistently raised by drivers over the years;
3. parking yard and related facilities – following the impending takeover of traffic management from the concessionaire on 3^rd March, 2023, the ZRA has budgeted for the construction of a modern all-weather parking yard with a holding capacity of 2,000 trucks, accompanied by sanitary and kitchen facilities for the drivers by December, 2023; and
4. road infrastructure to alternative Borders – the Government will expedite the construction/rehabilitation of the roads leading to Kipushi, Mokambo and Sakania borders as these are alternative routes to the DRC. However, the current state renders them impassable, especially during the rainy season.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House and the nation at large that the interventions and efforts being implemented by the Government and various stakeholders have since seen the queue significantly reducing in the past week from Kalulushi Road to Chambishi. It is, therefore, our hope that these efforts will, eventually, help bring sanity and normalcy to the motorists and communities in the affected town of Kalulushi, and other constituencies along the road.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by Her Honour the Vice-President. I notice the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalulushi who asked the mover of the question is not around. I am sure she will be represented by the other hon. Members.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, the Vice-President mentioned that our people on the Zambian side are able to open the borders at 0600 hours and close at 2000 hours, which is a positive move. On the other side, our colleagues only open at 0700 and knock off at about 1800 hours, which is becoming a negative sign and a problem. Through the meetings that the Vice-President alluded to, has this matter been tabled, and if so, what has been the response from our colleagues on the other side?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, we have seen a variance between what is happening on the Zambian border and what is happening on the DRC side. In fact, that issue, for the meetings we referred to, and even some other meetings that we may not have referred to, has been discussed. From the information I have, there is normally an agreement, but that no sooner do they agree, than things go right back. However, we cannot give up. So, we will continue to engage with colleagues from the other side. The House will remember that recently, it was announced, even after His Excellency the President met his colleague, that that was one of the things that were talked about. However, what we heard, I think yesterday, is that they knocked off about 1855 hours.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South and hon. Cabinet Ministers there, please lower your voices in your discussion. I thought the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock was in Italy. I saw something about acting. What happened?

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, for others who may not know, there is more to the problem at hand than meets the eye. The risks are way too high for us who live on the Copperbelt. Issues of crime, diseases, and prostitution are rife over a stretch.

Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President is aware of the many engagements even in the previous administration, over the problem between Zambia and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). The elephant in the room is the insincerity on the part of our colleagues on the other side of the border.

Madam Speaker, how far have we gone with this issue as a country? I am asking this question because every problem has an ending. How many meetings is Zambia going to have with our colleagues on the other side to end this problem, if this issue of insincerity is not dealt with?  This is not the first time we are having meetings with our colleagues. I remember in my reign as a District Commissioner (DC) of Kitwe, in the three years that I was in charge, we held more than ten meetings with the DRC. So, I do not even understand this problem because we have had similar responses over the years. Surely, there should be something else that can be done, especially on the part of our colleagues on the other side of the border. They should be sincere to the commitments they make.

Madam Speaker, the envisaged project in Luapula would have been a perfect way to deal with part of this problem. How far has the Government gone with this matter? What is the Government’s position with regard to the Kasomeno/Mwenda Bridge, which in my view, is the biggest solution to the problem we have at Kasumbalesa? What is the position of the Government in as far as the erection of a bridge on the Kasomeno /Mwenda Road in Luapula is concerned?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his observation. Indeed, there is that element of – I think that is the way I answered. I do not have to use the exact words but I think I told the hon. Member that no sooner had they agreed than it was done. I think that is in agreement with the statement that the hon. Member has made.

Madam Speaker, like I said, as of yesterday, the border on the other side closed by 1855 hours  when it could have closed at 2100 hours. So, it has not been an easy task. We need the border and we have to decongest it. This is why in my statement, I said that we have to work on the roads like the Kasomeno/Mwenda Road. I also mentioned that we have to work on the infrastructure at the entry points which include the Sakania, Mokambo and Kipushi border posts. I think these are the ones I mentioned. The Chembe Border Post is on the other side. So, we need to find ways of decongesting that border post. Indeed, it has been difficult because we have been having meetings, just the hon. Member has said.

Madam Speaker, the three meetings that I referred to in my statement are those that have been held within a month but the situation has continued to worsen. The traffic has continued to increase because the Kasumbalesa Border Post is being fed by more than one border, namely, Nakonde, Chanida, Kazungula, Chirundu and Katima Mulilo border posts. So, there are many trucks that are currently using the Kasumbalesa Border Post because of the bad infrastructure that is on the other border posts.  In the long term, the infrastructure on the other border posts should be worked on to decongest the Kasumbalesa Border Post. That may alleviate the situation that we have.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker:  What about the Kasomeno/Mwenda Bridge?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, maybe, I swallow words.  I mentioned that the Kasomeno/Mwenda Bridge has been on the drawing table under the Public Private Partnership (PPP) for Luapula. This bridge is in Mwense as you enter the DRC.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning mentioned three roads that the Government is going to work on. Now, amongst those three roads, the Sakania Road is not included but Her Honour the Vice-President has said that it is going to be constructed. We know that the Sakania Road is the easiest and quickest possible route used to get into the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

Madam Speaker, I know that the concerned people of Zambia who were listening have heard that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is going to only sponsor a few roads and the Sakania Road is not amongst those roads. May I get clarity on that issue?

The Vice- President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member of Parliament for her concern. If the hon. Member listened to my statement, I said that the Government would want to work on all the borders but unfortunately, the money which the hon. Minister referred to is from one source and cannot do everything. The Sakania Road that the hon. Member has mentioned has been put under the PPP. It is one of the priority projects under the PPP. We are not only going to work on the roads but also, on the actual border infrastructure. Our colleagues on the other side of the border have already worked on their road to Sakania. So, this is on the plan.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I have listened to most of the solutions that Her Honour the Vice- President has provided and they all seem to be long term.

Madam Speaker, when Her Honour the Vice-President says that the Government is going to build public amenities on that stretch, surely, it means that in every 100 m radius, we should have a public toilet. Why not bring in mobile toilets as a temporary measure to address the concerns of cholera outbreak.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the questions in this House although sometimes, I am tempted not to appreciate some questions. The reason is that in my statement, I read exactly what the hon. Member is talking about. In my statement, I said that the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) has provided mobile toilets that have been placed along the area where the trucks are marooned. At the end of this chaos and rainy season, they will provide at least infrastructure such as a packing bay, kitchen, and sanitary (toilet). That was in the statement that I gave and that is why, I have failed to appreciate the hon. Member’s question.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: That is why we need to pay attention to statements.    

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I wish to stretch the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Chienge. Indeed, the opening up of Sakania Border and Mokambo Border will help decongest the border. However, my concern is that it has been stated that working on the Ndola/Mufulira Road has been on the cards. It has been on the cards for far too long and, already, today, that is the same statement that Her Honour the Vice-President has issued. Would Her Honour the Vice-President be more specific? How far has the project gone? When do we expect to actually see the contractor mobilising and working on the Ndola/Mufulira Road and the Mufulira/Mukambo Road? Where specifically are we?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I know we can talk about many roads, except that today, our focus is on only one. However, it is important that some roads, generally in the country, are budgeted for. If you check the budget, you will find that some roads have been budgeted for. The Ndola/Mufulira Road, which the hon. Member talked about and will be a detour to Sakania, is on the drawing board, and it will be worked on this year. In fact, I am informed that the talks with the concessionaire are about to be concluded. So, we pray and believe that this year, it will be worked on. The project will not just be talked about as usual, but it has been fully planned for. The Government is talking to the would-be concessionaire.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, the people who have travelled to foreign countries, especially to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), have mentioned that the trucks that are on the road are only on the Zambian side. One of the solutions that the DRC came up with was to construct many parking slots so that the trucks can park in those slots rather than on the road. The same applies to Tanzania, and that is how they managed to sort out the problem of parking trucks on the road. They also constructed many parking slots along the main way, which to me is a business. Is the Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, considering constructing parking slots, so that it can levy the truck drivers. When they are cleared, that is when they can move out and go to the border. Is the Government considering that solution?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I am told that in the DRC, the parking bay, which is called the Whiskey Bay, is away from the border, and that is the idea that we are talking about. However, as I stated, our immediate plan, which is on the cards, is to construct a parking bay on the Zambian side in the dry season, which will accommodate 2,000 trucks. The idea of trucks parking away from the border is important, and the Government is considering that in the long term.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for that statement.

Madam Speaker, the mitigation measures that the Government is taking are very robust. However, this is a perpetual problem for us in the Copperbelt. It has not started today and we have been seeing this problem. Her Honour the Vice-President stated that our colleagues across the border are the ones letting us down. The measures the Government is putting in place are workable, but what measures will it put in place to ensure that our colleagues across the border also comply with those measures? Even if we put good measures on the Zambian side, they will still block us. We will have talks and we will, again, have the same predicament.

The Vice-President:Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa. “Mwamina nama, alanaka, mwamina bantu, tanaka,” meaning that if you are dealing with people, you never give up; you have to continuously engage. I think the hon. Member understands what I am trying to explain. We need the people from the DRC. Therefore, we will not give up on them because of the kind of relationship we have had in the past. The Government thinks that one of the mitigating measures, if not a solution, is to upgrade the infrastructure in other borders which are open. That way, instead of being at one point, the traffic will be scattered in other borders, which I mentioned earlier, the Kipushi, Mukambo, Sakania and Chembe borders and, indeed, Mwense Border, when it is operational.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, do you still want to ask a question? You had indicated.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, my question was asked by Hon. Kamondo. However, going forward, we should consider developing a business model of prescribing the number of days a truck should be parked in the country, so that other business people can put up warehouses at inland ports to offload from. When one exceeds the number of days that one has been in the country, the other country giving a problem should meet the cost and start following up their goods from our country, and we will be charging for storing those goods at the warehouses.

Madam Speaker: That was a comment. I am sure Her Honour the Vice-President has taken note.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President’s statement was clear, but I have a proposal for the Government. I have worked at the border before and I understand the kind of traffic that is usually there. One local company will have twenty trucks and they will be released at the same time. Now, imagine if five local companies release their trucks at the same place and they park at our border; this will bring confusion.

So, I am of the view that the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), as a temporally measure, can be in touch with the local transporters and instruct them to be releasing papers for clearance, only after the trucks locally have been cleared through their agent. The local transporters can be informed when the trucks are cleared so that they can release theirs. This means we will only deal with the international trucks which will be parked at the border. So, that is my view. If the ZRA does that, then we will reduce the congestion at the border.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chipili.

Madam Speaker, according to my statement, the local trucks do not have to go through the clearing process at the border because they do that in Kitwe and Chingola. So, they do not have to go all the way to the border now. They only deal with paperwork.

Madam Speaker, even those at the borders I mentioned; the international points of entry, also do a lot of paper work before coming to Kazungula. So, there is an element of paper work. However, as you have heard from the statement, I did not emphasise the issue of clearing and paper work because it has more to do with the timing. So, they have created points where this clearing is done internally for our own local goods.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for confirming that the Ndola/Mufulira/Mokambo Road will be done this year. The Mokambo Border is currently working. So, why are trucks avoiding using it and instead, choosing to go through Kasumbalesa Border when the Mokambo Border is available? The road was worked on after the Road Development Agency (RDA) gave us K1 million to repair it.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, since the hon. Member comes from Mufulira, it will be good if he gives us a little bit more information because the information I have, as you heard, is that these entry and exit points are in a very deplorable state. Mokambo Border is both an entry and exit point. That is what I know and that is why the border cannot work effectively. However, if it is in state that the hon. Member referred to, really, then the truckers will take themselves there because they are looking for a better place where they would spend less time. However, like I said in the statement, we are working towards that so that we have a situation where vehicles or trucks are able to pass properly after the rainfall.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kanengo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to represent the people of Kabushi Constituency. I thank Her Honour the Vice-President and the Government for the solutions and plans they have put in place to mitigate the situation at Kasumbalesa Border. I, however, want to know if the Government has put any plans in place to address the working culture of some of the office bearers at Kasumbalesa Border Post and other border posts. We understand that some of our office bearers have crossed into the New Dawn Government with the Patriotic Front (PF) behaviour.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kabushi for noting some good things that this Government is doing. It is important as we perform our oversight roles to also realise that there are good things happening. I think it makes life better for all of us. So, it is good that he has noted the fact that there are challenges.

Madam, as for work culture, like I indicated in the statement, I am told that that on the Zambian side, they work from 0600 hours until 2000 hours, minimum while in other places, it is up to 2200 hours. However, I will not steal anything from what the hon. Member said in the sense that the work culture, generally, must be worked on.

Madam Speaker, our work culture can improve and we can do better. Those at Kasumbalesa are doing their best. So, all of us need to realise that a good work culture starts with us as leaders here. AS leaders, do we really feel we are doing our best in giving confidence to the Zambian people by the questions we ask and how we do things? We are the leaders and people are looking up to us. If life is a joke here, it becomes a joke everywhere. That is what I can say about the work culture. It starts with you and I as well as the hon. Member for Mambilima.

I thank you, Madam.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ELECTRIFICATION OF VILLAGES IN ISOKA DISTRICT BY REA

152. Ms Nakaponda (Isoka)asked the Minister of Energy:

1. when the electrification of the following villages in Isoka District by the Rural Electrification Authority will be completed:

1. Ntipo;
2. Chilanga;
3. Ndeke;
4. Kapililonga;
5. Sansamwenje; and
6. Kalunga

1. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is, considering that the poles and cables have already been mounted; and
2. what measures are being taken to avert vandalism of the cables.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the project to supply power to Chilanga Primary School, Ndeke Primary School, Kapililonga Secondary School and rural health centre, Sansamwenji Secondary School, Kalungu Primary School, Tuta Primary School, DATS Memorial School and the surrounding areas in Isoka District was completed and technically commissioned in October 2021. There has been no delay in the completion of the project. The Rural Electrification Authority (REA) through the community mobilisation unit has intensified community engagement activities which border on the aspect of vandalism in project areas. To this effect, REA has embarked on expanding community engagement structure by including security personal as a way of upscaling security in project areas.

Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to give additional information the on same project.

REA started the implementation of Kalungu/SansamwenjiGrid Extension Project in 2018 and was technically commissioned in 2021. The project involved tapping of power from Ntipo, and construction of a total of 55km of 11kV overheard line, 9.2 km of 400V overhead line to supply power to Chilanga Primary School, Ndeke Primary School, Kapililonga Secondary school and rural health centres. Sansamwenji Secondary School, Kalungu Primary School, Tuta Primary School, DATS Memorial School and surrounding areas. The project targeted a catchment population of 12,700 and supply electricity to 270 private households and 125 small scale entrepreneurs. The project was implemented at an estimated cost of K7.2 million

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, this question was asked last year, and the project was launched last year. However, my question is: When these villages are finally connected, will Zesco Limited consider maintaining the minimum connection fees to the village households at K250 or below? That would discourage communities to continue using charcoal and hence, will preserve our forests.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, Zesco connection fees are standard. However, the hon. Member can push-in an appeal to see whether Zesco can reconsider connection fees in rural areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

TARRING OF THE MUNGANGA TURN-OFF/MUNKONSHI/KAWAMBWA ROAD

153. Mr Chala (Chipili) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to tar the Munganga Turn Off /Munkonshi/ Kawambwa Road in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo) on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, the Government, through a Public-Private Partnership will tar the first 8 km of the Munganga Turn Off up to Mwenda Junction as part of the Kasomeno/Mwenda Toll Road Project, and the remaining section of the Mwenda Junction to Kawambwa will only be considered in future road sector annual work plans.

Madam Speaker, the plans to upgrade to bituminous standard road for the first 8km from Munganga Turn Off up to the Mwenda junction will be undertaken once the financial clause has been attained at the Kasomeno/Mwenda PPP Project.

Plans to upgrade to bituminous standard the section of the road from Mwenda junction to Kawambwa will only be considered in future once we factor it into the road sector work plans, subject to the availability of money.

Madam Speaker, the Government, indeed, has plans, as indicated at part (a) and (b) above. Therefore, part (c) of the question becomes inconsequential.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Acting Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this time to rise on a serious point of order. My point of order is based on Chapter 9, Standing Order 44 of our Standing Orders, 2021 which has to do with the duties of the Leader of the Opposition in the House.

Madam Speaker, according to this Standing Order, the Leader of the Opposition in the House has three key functions; (a), (b) and (c). My concern is on part (c) where it says:

1. assist the presiding officers to maintain discipline in the House.

Madam Speaker, I have observed with concern that most of the time, the Leader of the Opposition in the House, is usually not in the House. He will come in the House and, maybe, after twenty minutes or so, leave. Is he in order to be absent from the House for so long at each sitting?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on this matter.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you for that point of order that has been raised. Indeed, from my observation, most of the time, the Leader of the Opposition is not in the House. However, the Patriotic Front Whip, when he goes out, he sends me a note that he is either attending to a Committee meeting or something else. He always sends me a note, but the Leader of the Opposition in the House does not advise where he is going, when he is going or when he is coming back. So, I do not know what issue he has with –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: So, the Leader of Opposition in the House is out of order for not being in the House and ensuring that he performs his role, as stated in the Standing Orders, to assist the presiding officers.

We hope that we will have a chat with him.

Can we make progress.

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement. We are happy that there is that ka stretch which the ministry is going to tar. However, there is that stretch from Mwenda to Mukonshi/Kawambwa, which is about 100 km or so, which is a deplorable state. Could the hon. Minister have any plan for re-gravelling instead of tarring it so that our people can be travelling safely?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, let me give just a bit of some background information about this road. The actual stretch is 92 km. So, he is right. It is less than 100 km. The Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), signed a concession with Messrs G. E. D. Projects Africa Zambia Limited on 5^th August, 2016, at an estimated cost of US$180 million. The concession is for twenty-five years.

Madam Speaker, why I am giving my hon. Colleague this information is to show him that there is already a commitment on this road under a PPP Project signed by our former governors of this country, the PF, in 2016. This is now 2023, and he can clearly see that there have been some levels of default. However, in order for us to get through this challenge, and for our people to attain connectivity without too much stress, my proposal to the hon. Member is that he approaches our office at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development so that we can call the G. E. D Projects Africa Zambia Limited which is the concessionaire, first of all, to understand why it is failing to execute its part and, if it is not, where the default is. We then can find solutions around gravelling the road as he proposed, which, I think, is a decent proposal, in order for our people to enjoy some motorability of this particular road of 92 km.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Brig. Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central): Madam Speaker, mine is to take advantage of the question on the Floor. I am sure the House will agree with me that in almost every session or sitting, we have questions on roads, and just this afternoon, three questions have come up. So, I just want to appeal to the Acting hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to come up with a comprehensive statement on the plans that the Government has, especially on our major roads, in as far as tarring them is concerned. I am sure that each and every hon. Member here, if asked, has so many questions which can be asked on our major roads simply because of the state in which our roads in the country are currently. So, maybe, that could be considered.

Madam Speaker: Thank you for that suggestion. It sounds like a reasonable one and I can see the Acting hon. Minister nodding, indicating that he will come back to the House with a comprehensive statement on the state of the roads.

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, once more, I thank the hon. Minister for his –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, before the hon. Member for Chipili continues with his debate, I note that the Leader of the Opposition is back in the House.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Leader of the Opposition, there was a point of order here that you are not assisting the presiding officers. So, I hope –

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I was attending to office duties.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member for Chipili continue.

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that the hon. Minister’s response is very clear. In my view, I think whatever arrangement was made with that contractor must be forgotten because it is a thing of the past. I am sure that contractor will never come back on site because he has been away since 2016. The law is very clear that within nine months or so, if one does not show any interest in doing something, then he has failed to it. This means that if he wants to do something, he should start the process afresh. I will therefore, go to the hon. Minister’s office as he has advised so that we see the way forward.

Madam Speaker: I do not know if, hon. Acting Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, you would want to comment on that or you welcome him to your office.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, he is welcome to the office.

CONSTRUCTION OF A CIVIC CENTRE AT CHALABESA IN KANCHIBIYA DISTRICT

154. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. when construction of a civic centre at Chalabesa in Kanchibiya District will commence;
2. what the cause of the delay in commencing the project is;
3. what the cost of the project is; and
4. what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, by leave of the House, allow me to withdraw this question because it has been overtaken by circumstances.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

Question, by leave, accordingly, withdrawn.

REVIVAL OF RICE SCHEMES IN CHAMA DISTRICT

155. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to revive the following rice schemes in Chama District:

1. Katangalika; and
2. Kapilingisha;

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

1. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to revive Katangalika and Kapilingisha rice schemes in Chama District. In fact, the Government’s plans are already being implemented in Katangalika and Kapilingisha, through the World Bank funded project, known as the Transforming Landscapes for Resilience and Development (TRALARD). The project is supporting rice farmers by providing them with good improved seeds, establishing rice bulking centres, and linking them to markets.

Madam Speaker, we also have the Common Market for Conservancy (COMACO) which is supporting rice schemes in Katangalika and Kapilikisha through the provision of inputs and connection to markets.

Madam Speaker, as outlined above, plans are already being implemented.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the Government is already implementing and supporting rice farmers in Katangalika and Kapingilisha. I would like to find out if the ministry has taken measures to monitor whether what is being reported is what is on the ground? If yes, how is the progress or success of that project?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, as indicated, the Government is supporting the farmers through provision of:

1. good seed;
2. market;
3. institutions like COMACO; and,
4. storage facilities.

However, we would be happy as the ministry to learn from the hon. Members if they see any areas which are wanting so that we could improve on those.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, Chama is one of the leading rice producer districts in this country. I know the Katangalika and Kapilingisha rice schemes were run by the state during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government. Since then, the projects have been abandoned and the state has not taken any role to promote rice growing in Chama.

Madam Speaker, does the ministry have plans to mechanise the project? What is hampering the growth of rice sub-sector is that people are still using outdated methods of farming. Does the ministry have plans to ensure that it helps farmers so that they can use modern method of farming to boost rice production? 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the answer is a definite yes. Within the comprehensive agriculture framework, the Government is looking at mechanisation amongst the many other facets that we will improve it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, although my question has partly been answered, I want to say that the Government is now implementing the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP) away from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Madam Speaker, what specifically, under CASP, is the Government doing to help the farmers in the same area? 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, first of all, I appreciate the position which the hon. Member has taken. However, the Comprehensive Agriculture Support Programme (CASP) is not a substitute for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). I will issue a ministerial statement so that hon. Members can appreciate what CASP is. FISP is one of the subsets of CASP. So, we will discuss this issue so that hon. Members understand exactly what CASP is all about, and they can go and disseminate proper information. However, to specifically answer the question, under CASP, there is mechanisation, farming blocks, enhanced extension, processing and a number of other facets within the agriculture sector. So, as Hon. Mtayachalo said, what is needed to improve rice cultivation in Chama, for example, is mechanisation, like in other areas where tractors are being used for ploughing and preparing the area, and good seed is being taken to such areas. All that is what CASP will focus on.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, LANDS AND NATURAL RESOURCES

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the Proposal for Zambia’s Accession to the Membership of the Global Green Growth Institute, for the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 16^th December, 2022.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Article 63(e) of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 and Section 5 of the Ratification of International Agreements Act No. 34 of 2016, your Committee was mandated to consider and make recommendations to the House on the Executive’s proposal to ratify Zambia’s accession to the membership of the Global Green Growth Institute.

Madam Speaker, the Global Green Growth Institute was established as an international inter-governmental organisation in 2012 at the Rio+20 United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development. Its vision consisted of a low-carbon and resilient planet of strong, inclusive and sustainable growth. While its mission was to support member states in the transformation of their economies into green growth economic models, the membership of the institute stood at forty-five.

Madam Speaker, let me state from the outset that all the stakeholders who made submissions before your Committee were in support of Zambia’s accession to the membership of the Global Green Growth Institute. This was on account that the Global Green Growth Institute’s mission and objectives were in line with the National Policy on Climate Change, as well as the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP). Further, the Global Green Growth Institute agreement did not conflict with the ratification of the International Agreements Act No. 34 of 2016.

Madam Speaker, the Global Green Growth Institute promoted green growth, a paradigm that was characterised by a balance of economic growth and environment.

Madam Speaker, it is anticipated that as a member of the Global Green Growth Institute, Zambia will have access to evidence-based knowledge and good practice for scaling up green growth solutions. It is further anticipated that Zambia will have access to technical assistance delivered through a mix of global, regional and country specific programming, guided and funded through the voluntary core programme and project, earmarked contributions from the Global Green Growth Institute growing number of partners.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee is generally satisfied that the requirements for the ratification of an international agreement as provided in the Ratification of International Agreements Act No.34 of 2016 have been met. The Global Green Growth Institute agreement is also not in conflict with any of the laws of the land. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the National Assembly approves the proposal to ratify the Global Green Growth Agreement, taking into account the concerns raised, which have been recorded in the report.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Simushi: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion moved by the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture Lands and Natural Resources, I will mention a few salient points that may have been left out.

Madam Speaker, the objective of Zambia joining the Global Green Growth Institute is to enhance inclusiveness and sustainable economic development, enhance environmental resilience, increase rapid urban development, and increase investment of renewable energy sources in the country.

Madam Speaker, one of the benefits of Zambia’s accession to the Global Green Growth Institute is to increase knowledge sharing and good practices through the wider network of the Global Green Growth Institute’s partners and members. The other benefit is access to technical assistance delivered through a mix of global regional and country specific programming and projects.

Madam Speaker, finally, as the Chairperson mentioned, it was interesting to note that Zambia’s accession to the Global Green Growth Institute is not in conflict with the country’s Constitution as well as other legislation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me an opportunity to comment on the matter currently being debated on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, let me hasten to commend Hon. Mabonga, the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources, in particular, and the whole Committee in general, on its diligence in divulging facts pertaining to Zambia’s intention to become a member of the Global Green Growth Institute.

Madam Speaker, the Global Green Growth Institute was founded in 2012, with the objective of supporting and promoting strong, inclusive and sustainable economic growth in countries such as Zambia. Since its inception as an international organisation, the institute has grown its membership to forty-five as of 16^th December 2022, with twenty countries submitting letters of intent for accession. Membership to the Global Green Growth Institute is open to any member State of the United Nations (UN) that subscribes to the promotion of sustainable development.

Madam Speaker, I, therefore, confirm to the nation, through this House, that Zambia’s interest to join the Global Green Growth Institute is based on the benefits that the country will draw from such an agreement. These benefits are in support of Zambia’s main goals as espoused in the 2030 Vision and the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) of becoming a prosperous middle-income nation by 2030.

These benefits include:

Access to Knowledge Sharing and Good Practice Among Member States

This is important, especially that Zambia is developing a green growth strategy that is aimed at pushing the country into a green growth trajectory. The green growth strategy aims to promote and facilitate low-carbon developments through the reduction in the use of fossil fuels which contribute to the increase in the emissions of greenhouse gases among others.

Technical Assistance

This is through research and development drawing upon the experience and lessons learnt from a broader pool of green growth experiences across the globe. For example, already, the Global Green Growth Institute has helped Zambia develop Zambia’s National Green Growth Index Report, which is being finalised. Further, the Global Green Growth Institute (GGGI) is providing technical assistance to the ministry in the preparation of the green growth strategy.

Financial Benefits

The institute facilitates financing for implementation of various green programmes in member states. Already, the global Green Growth Institute is helping the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment secure readiness support from the Green Climate Fund aimed at helping Zambia to create a national financing vehicle in line with the proposed Climate Change Bill;

Madam Speaker, furthermore, the institute is helping the country on carbon trading through the Supporting Preparedness for Article 6 Cooperation Programme. The programme is very important for enabling Zambia to participate effectively in the carbon market.

Madam Speaker, green growth is a development approach that seeks to deliver economic growth that is anchored on the tenets of social inclusivity and environmental sustainability. It seeks opportunities for economic growth that are low-carbon and climate resilient, pollution prevention (air, land and water) as well as maintain a healthy and productive ecosystem through the creation of green jobs.

Madam Speaker, I reassure the House that Zambia’s accession to the GGGI will not affect the current legal provisions as membership does not require any changes to the national laws. Further, accession to the institute does not attract any financial obligations or commitments, but rather, offers immense benefits such as those mentioned earlier.

Madam Speaker, earlier on, I alluded to inclusive growth. This concept promotes higher resource productivity by utilization of fewer natural resources and less pollution. This is very important to Zambia as it positions our country to transition from a high-carbon to a low-carbon production structure with a particular focus on energy efficiency as well as clean and renewable energy, which are all fundamental, aspects in addressing and reversing the negative impacts of climate change.

Madam Speaker, let me emphasise the fact that we are not operating in isolation, but that all these activities are anchored on a sound national policy and legal framework which support the green growth model and, therefore, several policies and acts have been referenced including the following:

1. Energy Policy and energy act focus on diversification of the energy sources;
2. the policy on environment and the Environmental Management Act that calls for sustainable management and utilisation of natural resources;
3. Forestry Policy and Forests Act that calls for sustainable management of forest resources.
4. Water Resources Policy and the Water Resources Management Act that call for sustainable management and utilisation of water resources; and
5. the Mines and Minerals Development (Amendment) Act and policy that call for sustainable utilisation of minerals.

Madam Speaker, it is clear that the Government seeks to have an enhanced initiative of service delivery which is beneficial to its citizens. The CGGI will, therefore, work as a catalyst in our development agenda through the connection of Zambia to possible funders for some of the new initiatives and existing programmes premised on green growth.

I, therefore, Madam Speaker, urge all hon. Members of this august House to support the work of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources and, indeed, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment to adopt the report and approve Zambia’s accession to the GGGI.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, let me, first of all, thank all the hon. Members for unanimously supporting the report. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Seconder of the Motion for ably seconding the Motion. I also thank all the Committee members for the work they did during your Committee sittings. Lastly, I thank the secretariat for the support it rendered to your Committee.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Madam Speaker: Order!

________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1727 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 22^nd February, 2023.

_________