Thursday, 16th February, 2023

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           Thursday, 16th February, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]






Madam Speaker:Hon Members will recall that on Tuesday, 14th February, 2023, I reminded the House of the request by the Ministry of Technology and Science for hon. Members to indicate areas of priority in their constituencies that require construction of communication towers in order to improve communication.This is yet another reminder, and as earlier stated, the information should be submitted to the Journals and Table Office Department by close of business tomorrow, Friday, 17th February, 2023.

I thank you.




The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe)(on behalf ofthe Minister of foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Kakubo)): Madam Speaker, as you directed, following a matter of urgent public importance raised by Hon. Joel Chibuye, MP, for Roan Constituency, on Tuesday, 14th February, 2023,let me update the august House on the welfare of Zambian nationals in the Republic of Türkiye, following the devastating earthquake that took place recently.

Madam Speaker, the House may recall that on Monday 6th February, 2023, Gaziantep Province of Southern Türkiye was hit by a 7.8 magnitude earthquake around 0400 hours. The epicentre of the earthquake also affected parts of central Türkiye as well as neighbouring Syria, where buildings were levelled to the ground while people were asleep. The Türkiye Disaster and Emergency Management Authority (AFAD)has so far reported that nearly 35,500 people died, while casualties continue to be reported due to the devastating effect of the calamity.

Madam, in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake, the Embassy of the Republic of Zambia in Ankara carried out a check on all known Zambian nationals in Gaziantep, who are mostly students. I am pleased to inform this august House that no Zambian national is reported to have lost either life or limbas a result of the earthquake.

However, Madam Speaker, six self-sponsored Zambian students from Dicle University in Diyarbakir of South-Eastern Türkiye and the epicentre of the earthquake were in distress after their apartment collapsed. The students had challenges of food and shelter and the situation wascompounded by very low temperatures, this being the winter season in that country. In that regard, our embassy in Ankara was authorised to undertake swift arrangements to evacuate the students from Diyarbakir to Ankara. Our students arrived in Ankara on 8th February, 2023.

Madam Speaker, the House may further be informed that on 10th February, 2023, the embassy evacuated to Ankara an additional three Zambian students who are currently pursuing their studies in Kayseri City of Türkiye. This followed guidance from the university management that many buildings in Kayseri City, including the student’s apartments, were left with cracks, thus rendering them uninhabitable and unsafe. This latest evacuation exercise brings the total number of students under the care of the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through our mission in Ankara, to nine. The Government, through our Ankara office, is providing accommodation and other necessities to our students.

Madam Speaker, the House may further be informed that two students located in an area called Gaziantep, as earlier mentioned, near the epicentre, assured the mission that they would not require evacuation as their area was not adversely affected. Another student who was studying in an area called Adana, also near the epicentre, has since travelled back to Zambia, at the facilitation of her parents.

Madam Speaker, the ministry would like to call upon all parents and guardians of the affected students, as well as members of the public and the Diaspora, to rest assured that this hardworking and committed Government continues to ensure the safety and wellbeing of our nationals in Türkiye.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Haimbe:Madam Speaker, the ministry wishes to state that there are 150 known Zambian nationals in Türkiye, mainly comprising students pursuing their studies at various universities across the country, as well as former students. However, only 108 are registered with the Zambian Embassy in Ankara. The Zambian nationals are predominantly domiciled in Ankara, Istanbul, Izmir, Kayseri, Diyarbakir, Adana, Antalya and Samsun. Of the 150, there are a few currently working for various organisations while some have integrated into the Turkish society over the years.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that our mission has continued to monitor the wellbeing of the known Zambians in Gaziantep Province and the surrounding provinces in the aftermath of the earthquake. The embassy staff has been reaching out to the Zambian community through different online platforms to encourage them to immediately report to the embassy any Zambian national adversely affected by the earthquake and in urgent need of assistance.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to be advised, on behalf of the Government and people of the Republic of Zambia, that Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, conveyed deepest condolences to the Government and the people of the Republic of Turkeyie on the tragedy suffered in that country.

Madam Speaker, additionally, my brother, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, Hon. Stanley Kakubo, MP, has equally spoken on telephone with his Turkish counterpart reaffirming Zambia’s sincere commiseration with the families and people of that country.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, while the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation remains actively seized with this matter, we wish to reiterate our call to all Zambian nationals who may not have registered with the embassy to do so in order to enable the mission account for them. Our mission will continue to closely monitor the situation as it evolves and the nation will be updated as and when the need arises.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the acting hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I am very thankful to the acting hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation for that detailed statement. I have observed that the ministerial statement was mostly anchored on the welfare of students. You will agree with me that Türkiye is well known for a lot of fabrics, including some of the suits that we are putting on and footwear.

Madam Speaker, I would want to find out from the acting hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation as to whether due diligence and consideration was taken on whether any Zambian business person was in that particular area where the earthquake occurred and also on the issue of footballers. Türkiye is also known for attracting athletics and to that extent, it is reported that one player from Ghana, up to now, is missing. Could the acting hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation state as to whether the Government has taken into consideration our business men and women, including if at all there were any footballers or athletes, who were not part of the government list of the 150 number that he has mentioned.

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the responsibility of our mission is in respect of all Zambians, regardless of their status, whether students, footballers or business persons. At the time that the statement was prepared, it was 150 Zambians across the spectrum who were taken into consideration and accounted for. If there are any persons who may have entered the country without having given our mission knowledge of that fact, then our appeal is that such persons must make themselves known. However, insofar as the scoping exercise that was undertaken by the mission is concerned, it covers 150 known Zambians, including, for the avoidance of doubt, persons in various professions, whether business persons, footballers or as the case may be.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, my condolences to the people of Türkiye for the loss of those colleagues of ours. The hon. Minister has indicated that the number of Zambian nationals was 150. Have we done the statistics of how many are the students and how many are non-students and have established exactly what type of businesses they are engaged in?


Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, if I recall correctly, the matter of urgent public importance was in regard to whether or not our nationals lost life or limb. It was not about the statistics of who is a student, footballer and so on and so forth. Insofar as is material, the matter at hand before this honourable or august House is whether our nationals have died and we have taken the necessary steps in relation to that.

Madam Speaker, the statistics are available or may be availed on request at the ministry. For the purposes of this ministerial statement, we have not produced those figures.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that ministerial statement. Apart from relying on our foreign mission in Ankara, did the ministry also take stock, from the airlines, of Zambians who could have travelled during that period?

Madam Speaker: The question is similar to the one that the hon. Member for Roan asked. Can we make progress. It looks like we do not have any more questions. We can move to the next item.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker,I thank you for giving me this opportunity to update the hon. Members of this august house and, indeed, through them, the general public, on the status of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) epidemicin our country, Zambia and guidance on congregate settings.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to recall that on Tuesday, 14th February, 2023, the hon. Speaker directed that a ministerial statement be issued on the national status with regards to the COVID-19 situation, so that as we sit in the House, we are aware of what is happening. This will,indeed, enable us to implement whatever measures that need to be taken to prevent the outbreak of the pandemic.

Madame Speaker, you may wish to note that our Government of Zambia, through the Ministry of Health working closely with the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI), through a multi-sectoral approach is currently responding to outbreaks of measles, cholera and scabies. This is in addition to the ongoing COVID-19 epidemic in various parts of the country. We are also on high surveillance alert for polio following the isolation of circulating polio viruses in sewer samples from Kitwe, with two cases, and Mufulira, also with two cases, on the Copperbelt, and the current outbreaks in Malawi, Mozambique and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). We also report a notable increase in clinically diagnosed mumps. The patients are all treated accordingly.

Madam Speaker, allow me to remind this august House that the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, attaches great importance to securing the health of the nation.

Zambia has been in a response mode to the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) since 18th March, 2020, when the country recorded its first two cases. Since then, all districts have been affected and now, the country is going through its fourth wave.

Madam Speaker, as of 15th February, 2023, the nation had recorded a cumulative total of 342,511 cases, 813 of which are currently active and a total of 4,053 deaths. To note is that a total of twenty-three COVID-19 deaths have since been reported only in 2023. Of the 813 currently with active infection, ten are hospitalised, with four needing oxygen while the rest are under home management.

Madam Speaker, we have so far seen a reduction in the positivity rate over the last few weeks from the highest of 8 per cent in the week of 9th to 15th January, 2023, to the current 3.9 per cent.

Madam Speaker, the vaccination campaign to ensure the population remains protected is ongoing and, currently, the country is at 80.1 per cent coverage. However, we still have a few districts with COVID-19 vaccination coverage below what we call target and these range between 56 to 69 per cent. The seven districts are namely, Lumezi, Lunte, Nsama, Lusaka, Petauke, Vubwi and Chama.

Madam Speaker, the teams under the Ministry of Health, with the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI), are continuing with active case finding and follow-ups of contacts. In addition, those under home management and eligible to receive medicine that reduces the chances of the disease progressing to severe illness are receiving this medication in various health facilities across the country. Hon. Members will recall that I did announce that we now currently have medication for COVID-19.

Madam Speaker, for the country to maintain the gains it has made in the fight against COVID-19, the Government has put the following measures in place:

  1. active case finding and enhanced surveillance across the country to ensure early detection, confirmation and referral of cases for prompt and appropriate care;
  2. capacity building for all our front line health workers in the country with continuing monitoring and training of the newly recruited staff to maintain high standards of care in the facilities and mitigate the impact this may have on other essential health services;
  3. mobilisation and prepositioning of COVID-19 drugs and other supplies necessary for the management of the sick and infection prevention both in health facilities and the community;             
  4. the provincial and district epidemic preparedness prevention control and management committees and the respective public health emergency operation centres remain active to enhance co-ordination of response and recovery and monitor any potential resurgence in the number of cases;
  5. community engagement of our population using local structures and media platforms with an emphasis on vaccination for all eligible individuals;
  6. established platforms for daily data sharing from all the cross-border and hot-spot districts; and
  7. continued vaccination and provision of booster doses across all age groups in the country.

This has been made possible using Government resources as well as those made available by our local and international partners. The multi-sectoral response, which falls under the Office of the Vice-President, has produced good results in controlling a very large outbreak that was anticipated in December 2022. I wish to acknowledge all the parties that have played a role in this success.

Madam Speaker, I note the concern among my fellow hon. Members of this august House, with regard to the sitting arrangement during parliamentary sittings. They may all wish to note that the guidance on the current sitting was based on the high transmission rates then, and the risk of an upsurge due to what was seen globally and, specifically, among countries in the Southern African region, especially, during Christmas and into the month of January.

Madam Speaker, allow me to remind the House that the COVID-19 transmission while not so high now, is ongoing. We have noted that the majority of persons whom we hospitalised are those not vaccinated and all have other underlining conditions. Our aim, therefore, is to safeguard such persons from severe infections. You may remember that COVID-19 is spread in three main ways, being:

  1. breathing-in air when close to an infected person who is exhaling small droplets and particles that contain the virus. Madam Speaker, you know we are so squeezed up in this House, unfortunately;
  2. having these small droplets and particles that contain the virus land on the eyes, nose or mouth, especially, through splashes and sprays like cough or sneeze. Again, from time to time, among ourselves, there is a lot coughing and sneezing; and
  3. touching eyes, nose or mouth with hands that have the virus on them. A person can spread COVID-19 before they develop symptoms; this is what we call pre-symptomatic.

Madam Speaker, considering the root of transmission, continued risk of infection and current low transmission status of the epidemic, we wish to propose the following:

  1. the seating in the Parliament reverts to normal, with all physically participating to sit in the main Chamber. However, the option to sit in the side rooms should be granted to those feeling vulnerable to possible infection;
  2. the hon. Members of Parliament sitting in the main Chamber be encouraged to wear masks in order to protect themselves and others;
  3. high levels of hand hygiene be maintained by regular washing of hands with soap and water or alcohol based hand sanitizer;
  4. we encourage all to get vaccinated, and when eligible, there is a need for the booster dose also to be taken;
  5. our rapid response team under the guidance of the ZNPHI will support the management of the environment. The ZNPHI together with the case management teams will ensure the availability of test and treat facilities at the National Assembly Clinic. Therefore, if people feel unwell or they have dever, they can quickly access these facilities.

Madam Speaker,as the hon. Members of Parliament visit their constituencies, they must guide the members of the communities to maintain high levels of environmental and personal hygiene.

Madam Speaker, to members of the public, through you, Madam Speaker, I wish to re-iterate that the Coronavirus Disease 2012 (COVID-19)  is still in transmission. It is important therefore, that while we have eased off restrictions on congregate settings and socialisation, members of the public are encouraged to follow all public health measures that will protect them from the disease. These include:

  1. avoiding unnecessary crowding;
  2. wearing of masks in high risk areas such as the healthcare facilities. Those who feel vulnerable to getting the disease should be encouraged to wear masks especially in public places and gatherings;
  3. maintaining high levels of environmental and personal hygiene. In this regard, we are advised that those offering public and social services to provide facilities for good hand hygiene and sanitation purposes;
  4. encouraging all eligible persons to get vaccinated and also receive a booster dose at advised times. Vaccines are available for all the twelve year old children  and above across the country; and

Madam Speaker, those unwell must always visit the healthcare facilities to get diagnosed and treated accordingly.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to make a clarion call to all stakeholders to remain committed to ensuring that we enhance community engagement to get our populations vaccinated  and also, being remain adherent to suggested public health and social interventions.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministrial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I note from the statement that the hon. Minister shows concern regarding the sitting arrangement here in Parliament, which she described as highly congested. What measures is the hon. Minister putting in place, especially in places like schools since we now have free education? and a number of learners are learning from the same classrooms? Are there specific measures the ministry is putting in place to ensure the safety of these learners?

Mrs Masebo:Madam Speaker,I thank thehon. Member for that important question. Indeed, we recently opened schools, but as I indicated earlier, we have a committee under the Office of the Vice-President, which is multi-sectorial, where all the important ministries that have many people under their charge like the Ministry of Education participate. One of the measures which we undertook just before schools opened were to ensure that the schools were sanitised, had water supply and soap. We made sure that children were protected. Where the children were crowded, we made sure that they were allowed to put on masks. I am sure people will note that a number of schools are following some of the measures that we have announced.

However, there are challenges, especially in the rural areas where it might not be possible for children to find the masks. I wish to state that we have done very well in terms of vaccinating young ones from twelve years and above who are school going children. So, I can safely say that we have hit 70 per cent in most, if not all the schools. Once the children are vaccinated, chances of them getting COVID-19 is slim. Even if they did, we note from experience that those who are vaccinated are not severely  ill and ending up in the hospital.

Madam Speaker, we also note that safety is about individuals protecting themselves. We know that the transmission has been happening. Some people decide to stay at home and get medication without going to the hospital. COVID-19 seems common among people like us and the hon. Member because we travel around. It is advisable that we protect ourselves. I hope that the hon.Members who are sitting in here already have had at least two boosters. If they have not, I advise them to get it from the clinic here at Parliament.  I think it is important that we are all protected by getting the COVID-19 vaccination and boosters. When one has a flu of some kind, it is better he or she  keeps away or at least, cover themselves.

Madam Speaker, as I suggested, it will be necessary to have two meeting places. Not all of us should be in the Chamber. Today, we do not have many hon. Members present, but we are still squeezed up. Generally, I think this is unhealthy. Even in terms of natural hygiene, we are too squeezed up. So, the idea of having two rooms for sittings is a very good idea.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think there is need to build another Chamber because hon. Members would want to sit in one place.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Health for that statement.  I want to know from the hon. Minister, which first three provinces and five districts countrywide are on top in terms of vaccination coverage, which stands at 80.1 per cent as indicated in the statement. What measures did these provinces and districts put in place to encourage people to get vaccinated? What is the ministry doing to visitors coming into Zambia from other countries, which are very much affected by the Corronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)?

Madam Speaker:It is best if each hon. Member just asks one question so that we give an opportunity to other Members to also ask as well.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, by now, we know the countries that have quite high numbers of COVID-19 in terms of positivity. Zambia has maintained the status by making sure that  visitors coming from outside Zambia have to produce certificates to show that they were vaccinated. We also have machines that check the temperature automatically as one enters the airport. If the health authorities at the airport notice that ones temperature is high, they will confine that person to make sure he/she is checked again.  That is basically what we are doing.

Madam Speaker, as regards which provinceswere the first, I know that Central Province, where the hon. Member comes from, was among the best, including the Copperbelt Province and the North-Western Province. Those were the best. At the moment, almost all the provinces are doing well save for the seven districts which I have mentioned in the statement, and it is unfortunate that Lusaka is one of those, considering the high population.

Madam Speaker, as regards how some districts achieved the 70 per cent vaccination rate, in fact, some districts achieved above 80 per cent. Some districts achieved 90 or 95 per cent vaccination rate. I think some districts are generally orderly and, unfortunately, Lusaka is one of the most disorderly cities. I suppose being the capital city, there is a mixed grill of people from the nine provinces who have come to stay here. The huge population obviously is an issue. The local Government has to do a lot of work. There are no traditional authorities in Lusaka city, but the Church has been helpful.

Madam Speaker, at the end of the day, the leaders from Lusaka who sit in this Parliament, namely the seven hon. Members of Parliament, have a lot of work to do, and I hope they can take this issue seriously in their various constituencies and work with their councillors. I noted that in other districts, local authorities, including hon. Members of Parliament, played a key role. In districts where hon. Members of Parliament participated at the community level, we saw the number of people getting vaccinated go up. In districts where hon. Members of Parliament and councillors have not been active and where communities depend on the Ministry of Health to do the work, we have seen challenges.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to ask a follow-up question. I thank the hon. Minister of Health for the statement, and I wish the people affected by the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in my constituency and Zambia at largea quick recovery.

Madam Speaker, when I visited some schools, markets and churches in Petauke Central, I saw that everything was being done the normal way despite that there is a high number of COVID-19 infections in that area. My son, a nine-year-old boy, was diagnosed with COVID-19 from school. However, I have not seen any measures being put in place so that school going children and people in churches and markets follow them. What measures has the ministry put in place to stop the spread of COVID-19, especially in schools and churches in my district? As a Member of Parliament for the good people of Petauke, I am very worried.

Madam Speaker: As we ask questions, let us be brief or to the point. The answers should also be brief or to the point so that we allow many hon. Members of Parliament to participate. We also want to hear the voices of the female hon. Members of Parliament.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, first of all, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for the information that he has given through his question, and I have taken note. We will see what further measures can be taken in Petauke in particular. Suffice it to say that the measures we are putting in place in schools, which I have already articulated, are the same measures elsewhere. Like I said, areas differ. I ask the hon. Member and his councillors to get active and work with the Ministry of Health and the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI) so they can come up with a deliberate programme to improve coverage.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I heard the statistics that the hon. Minister has given on the infection rate in the country, the active cases, the deaths that have occurred, those who are on oxygen and those who are hospitalised. What is the status of the supply of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) test kits in the health facilities or districts that have active cases that we have heard about?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, in the beginning, we were testing people in all places, but we had to reduce on that because the test kits are expensive. Only those who go to hospitals must be tested. To that extent, we have test kits for that. Currently, the ZNPHI is doing daily rapid testing where it does not necessarily have to wait for somebody to go and be tested. For example, ZNPHI staff can come here and test all the hon. Members of Parliament. In fact, I was hoping that hon. Members would say that we arrange that tomorrow morning before everybody enters the Chamber, we all get tested so that we establish whether all of us are okay or not okay. So, for that purpose, we are okay.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether hon. Members are willing to be tested tomorrow.

Hon. Members: Yes! We are!

Madam Speaker: Maybe, the hon. Minister can arrange for testing tomorrow, so that we know the status. Thank you.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that comprehensive statement. I wish her all the best in view of the efforts she is putting in place to fight this scourge.

Madam Speaker, with the commencement of the rehabilitation of the National Assembly Motel, which is a good thing, hon. Members have been scattered across the city in various lodges. One of the lodges is known to have been an isolation centre at the peak of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). Was that facility disinfected so that Hon. Gen. Sitwala, Hon. Kamboni and I who are at that facility can have a free mind?

Madam Speaker: I will add ten more minutes.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, yes, all the facilities that were used as isolation centres were disinfected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that comprehensive statement.

Madam Speaker, as a country, of course, we have been hit with several epidemics besides the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). How prepared is the Ministry of Health in terms of medical supplies for curative measures vis-à-vis framework contracts whereby when we are hit by a cholera outbreak, we will be able to call for treatment without paying cash at that moment? How prepared is the ministry in terms of medical supplies framework contracts?

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question. First of all, let me take note of what the hon. Member said; that we are faced with many epidemics. It is true that as a country, we are faced with many epidemics and it must worry all of us. Currently, we have many different diseases that are spreading across the country because obviously diseases do not know boarders. So, whatever affects another country affects us. If you look at cholera, it is in the east because of Mozambique and Malawi. You are hearing about the northern region being hit because of Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). So, it calls for working together and sharing information as hon. Members who are elected and are leaders at community level working together so that people become equipped with information. When you are equipped, it helps; you can know how to prevent polio or measles or whatever the case may be. However, it also calls for development looking at the factors causing the disease, especially issues to do with the supply of water by my brother, here, the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam Speaker, it calls for us allocating our Constituency Development Fund (CDF) on priority areas like water supply, making sure we have good quality flushable toilets as the President directed. Ensuring personal hygiene like keeping the environment free from garbage and discouraging people from selling food on the streets, and just discouraging this whole concept of street vending, because really, at the end of the day it is better to die hungry than to die from an infection because you ate contaminated food. I think that we need to reach a stage in Zambia as Zambians to help each other, also help our people to diversify in terms of business. I think this street vending is really bad and we are sitting on a time bomb as a country.

Madam Speaker, every night when I sleep, I am so scared because I might hear that there is an outbreak in Lusaka. If you recall the cholera outbreaks in Lusaka’s Kanyama area, thousands of people died just in Lusaka. So, we can prevent it by ensuring that we are careful.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of drugs, I am happy to state that we have made great progress as a ministry through Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) to get to a point this year, whereas the story of drugs will be routine. We are what I would say comfortable but still not good enough. However, we are hoping that by the end of March or April, this issue will have been fully stabilised so that it becomes routine.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for calling on us, women, to also participate.

Madam Speaker, I want to know if there is any deliberate programme to sensitise the public to avoid procuring drugs for Coronavirus Disease -2019 (COVID-19) without a prescription. I ask this because we have had COVID-19 from 2019 and of course the public knows that we all use azithromycin. There is a danger for people to prescribe medicines for themselves, to just go to the counter and procure medicine once they have flu-like symptoms. Does the ministry have any deliberate programme of sensitising the public to avoid buying drugs over the counter? This can help with drug resistance.

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, the question that the hon. Member has asked is very important. We have a situation in the country. As Zambians, we have the tendency of self-prescription. Some people suffer from Blood Pressure (BP) or any other sickness and were once prescribed with a certain drug, after that, whenever they have similar symptoms they do not even go to the hospital they just go to a pharmacy. It is against the law for a pharmacist to give out drugs that require a prescription. This year, through Zambia Medicine Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA), the regulatory institutions, and also Health Professional Council of Zambia (HPCZ), we are putting up programmes in place to sensitise the public and the pharmacist that it is against the law to buy or sell drugs without prescription and to act decisive and apply the law, you will see it very shortly, maybe this month, that this two institutions will start moving and people will have their licences revoked.

Madam Speaker, let me use this opportunity to speak to those that are in the medical field in terms of business pharmacies and the public that they should not go to a drug store and get a drug that you are not supposed to get over the counter. The worst culprits are those that are selling the drugs. If you are found, you will be in trouble.

Madam Speaker, just last week, a young lady died because she went and bought some insulin over the counter without a prescription and over dosed herself. As I speak now, she was buried.  This is a very big case which we are investigating now and action will be taken against the pharmacist that sold the insulin. So, it is very important that both consumers and sellers understand that it is against the law. There are punitive measures against such actions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister gave out a cumulative number of confirmed cases that have been recorded and I am sure this includes deaths. Members of the public share and circulate massages concerning Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) cases on social media platforms. What measures has the hon. Minister and her ministry put in place to curb against any one circulating misinformation on social media platforms.

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, the tragedy of our country today is social media. Unfortunately, the social media use by our people has been misunderstood. Instead of using social media to promote good life and development, we are using it to destroy ourselves as a country. We hope that Zambia Information Communication Technology Agency (ZICTA) can begin to bite considering that there is an Act in place against people that abuse social media. What I also just want to state is that currently, there is only one institution that is mandated to give official data on COVID-19 numbers and indeed other pandemics, and this is the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI). So, people should not follow any information regarding COVID-19 or indeed any pandemic except under the Ministry of Health, in particular, under ZNPHI. That is why from time to time, the Minister of Health gives updates on various diseases because we want people to follow the official Ministry of Health website and the official institution that has been mandated to deal with pandemics, the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI)

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, we have run out of time. I encourage the hon. Members who indicated but were not able ask their questions to continue engaging with the hon. Minister of Health on this matter or any other matter relating to health.





132. Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe) asked the Minister of Health:

  1. when the Government will undertake a comprehensive rehabilitation of Kundamfumu Clinic in Chembe District; and
  2. what the cause of the delay in commencing the rehabilitation works is.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has already started rehabilitating Kundamfumu Clinic in Chembe District by repairing the leaking roof at the pharmacy unit and water reticulation system. Other works have been submitted to the local authority for consideration under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, the delay in commencing the rehabilitation works was due to non-availability of funds at the time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the question has been answered accordingly. It is just that it was filed sometime back.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I have seen that there are challenges and questions take long to be answered when they are asked. So, I think we need to improve on this…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: …so that as soon a question is submitted, it is attended to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!



133. Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe)asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

  1. whether the Government has any plans to establish a border post between Zambia and Zimbabwe in Chief Chipepo’s area in Gwembe District;
  2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
  3. what the estimated cost of the project is; and
  4. what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has no immediate plans to establish a border post between Zambia and Zimbabwe in Chief Chipepo’s area in Gwembe District. The House may wish to note that the following conditions must be met to establish a border post:

  1. availability of a border facility on the corresponding neighbouring country;
  2. adequate number of people reported to be crossing the border in a month;
  3. in case of a natural barrier such as water body, there must be reliable water transport or bridge to guarantee safe passage of people and cargo; and
  4. the area should be far from a gazetted border post.

Madam Speaker, plans will be implemented when the above-mentioned conditions are met.

Madam, the cost is determined by the type of border post earmarked for construction.

Madam Speaker, the scope of the project will determine the timeframe for its completion.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, we have a challenge. We are all aware that the barrier between our people in Chief Chipepo’s chiefdom and our relatives across is Lake Kariba. There is a lot of traffic between Zimbabwe and Zambia in Chief Chipepo’s area. There is illicit trade that is going on. A lot of our cattle and goats are stolen to be sold in Zimbabwe and vice versa. Our own relatives are across the lake, and for us to go to Zimbabwe, we either have to go to Livingstone or Siavonga to get to Binga, a very far place. The cry of the people of Gwembe was that, maybe, in order to unite us on both sides of the lake, since we are separated by the lake and for the economic emancipation of this country, border passes may be issued to us. We are asking for reliable water transport so that we can be able to visit our relatives as and when. It should be a taboo for us that because of the water, we must be separated from our relatives. This is our plea to the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker: That was a statement. Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, do you have any comment?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the sentiments that are being expressed by my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member for Gwembe, pertaining to the need for a border post in Chipepo. As I indicated in my answer, we cannot establish a border post on the Zambian side if there is no corresponding border post on the Zimbabwean side.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the only solution we have now, is to advise our people to go to Namafulo…

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: …which is 80 km away from Chipepo…

Mr Samakayi: Correct!

Mr Mwiimbu: …in order for them to access Zimbabwe where our relatives are.

Mr Samakayi: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am also aware that even in Mwinilunga, they face similar problems for them to go to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

I thank you, Madam.


Mr Mutelo(Mitete): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers he is providing to this question. In Mitete,Washishi, on the corresponding side of Angola, our colleagues have a border post while we do not have. When are we going to establish our border post according to the conditions that the hon. Minister has laid out, as I take advantage of this question?

Madam Speaker: Unfortunately, hon. Member for Mitete, the question here is in relation to Gwembe. The hon. Minister might be taken by surprise and will not be able to answer your question. Probably, you can put in a question yourself.



134. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

  1. when the tarring of the Kabwe/Mukonchi/LuanoRoad under the Piccadilly Road Project will commence;
  2. what has caused the delay in commencing the project;
  3. how many kilometres will be covered under the project; and
  4. whether the project will include some township roads in Kabwe District.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Mr Milupi): Madam Speaker, the tarring of the Kabwe/Mukonchi/Luano Road under the Piccadilly Road Project has been postponed following the postponement of new and pipeline debt, the debt contraction by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, in order to keep the country’s debt at sustainable levels.

Madam Speaker, the project has not commenced due to funding challenges as the originally planned source of funds for the project could not be actualised, so as to keep the country’s debt at sustainable levels.

Madam Speaker, a total of 312 km of road was earmarked for upgrading to bituminous standard under the project.

Madam Speaker, the scope of works on the project includes 20 km of township roads in Kabwe District.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the response given to this important question. In responding to part (a) of the question, he indicated that the project has been postponed. In part (b), he indicated that it is due to funding and in (c), that it is 312 km.

Madam Speaker, the area of interest is in part (d). Since this project has been postponed, is there any project to be initiated by the ministry to work on township roads in Kabwe? As he responded in question (d), 20 km would have made a very big difference on township roads in Kabwe District. Now that the project has been postponed, is there any plan by his ministry to work on dilapidated roads, including other road furniture like drainages in Kabwe Central and Bwacha parliamentary constituencies?    

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, firstly, there are two reasons the project has been postponed. The first one, as explained, is the decision by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to suspend all debt or loan funding agreements where disbursements had not taken place.

The second reason was that this was what is called contractor-fund-facilitated project where the contractor was supposed to get the loan funding, but he was not able to do it in particular time.

Madam Speaker, as regards the hon. Member’s supplementary question about the extra 20 km, it must be understood that even when those are added on to a main contract, they are not given free of charge. Ultimately, the country pays for those extra kilometres of township roads. Yes, it is a method that we use, as a ministry, to cover some township roads.

Madam Speaker, with respect to Kabwe, I would ask that I do not say any further than this because we are waiting for an announcement very soon. Hopefully, we will be able to discuss with the hon. Member to see which way we are going to go.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. There is a promise there, although it has not been said.

The hon. Member for Kabwe Central Constituency, you may proceed. 

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his answers. At least, although it has not been mentioned, I can see that there is something that is coming up.

Madam Speaker, I have a follow-up question on part (a) where the hon. Minister said that the project has been postponed. May we know whether that is indefinitely or there is a known year when the project will resume?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, this particular project, as we said, covered a distance of 312 km from Kabwe through Mukonchi and all the way to Mkushi at a place where there are commercial farmers, originally foreign. In the early days, their place, to themselves, looked like Piccadilly. That is why the road is called Piccadilly. It was going to be undertaken by this particular contractor who was going to get loan funding, but that is not the method of funding we would go for, particularly at this time.

Madam Speaker, we have had an interest from one potential investor to put it as a Public-Private Partnership (PPP), but looking at the potential volumes of traffic, I doubt very much it will be commercially viable. However, we are not discouraging that potential investor. We are still discussing with him and if something comes up, this particular road will be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out about roads of shorter nature that need tarmac such as the Miyobe to Dundumwezi Road in Mbabala Constituency as well as the Mbabala to Pemba Road. These roads are of shorter nature and are just 13 to 20 km. What is the plan for roads of such short nature? Do we have any plans to tar them?

Hon. Member: Use the CDF.

Mr Munsanje: We will be able to grade them under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but to tar them, now that we have an excellent hon. Minister in the ministry?

Madam Speaker: Now, I am just wondering how Mbabala found itself in Kabwe. The question is specific. We are talking about roads in Kabwe.

The hon. Member for Mkushi South, you may proceed.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, this road in question is economic. It stretches from Kabwe to Luano, from Luano to Masansa and Masansa to Mkushi. I remember that at one time, we had an engagement with the hon. Minister responsible for Finance and National Planning then, Hon. Mutati, who gave us an assurance that the project was going to take off.

Madam Speaker, now, the hon. Minister says that the project has been postponed. Why have we postponed the project when there was a counter funding, from what I understood.  

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, obviously, the hon. Member takes an interest in this particular project. It depends on the definition of commercial viability. This road leads to Mkushi farming area which is a very productive area. Masansa is also a very productive area. These are some of the biggest maize, soya beans and livestock production areas in the country.

Madam Speaker, in terms of the Pubic Private Partnership (PPP), the reliance is solely on the volume of traffic that would utilise that particular road. So, whereas it is economically viable by our definition of commercial viability, it may not qualify. Having said that, we shall continue to encourage the interested potential investors to explore the possibility of that being done. The reason for postponement was not from the Government, but the inability of the potential contractor to source the financial funding at that time. Eventually, it was caught up in this decision from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to cancel to all contracts where loan funding had not yet been disbursed.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South):Madam Speaker, in one of his responses, the hon. Minister said the people of Kabwe should wait for an announcement. I want to find out when this good news of an announcement will be done? Is it tomorrow or before the end of the year, hon. Minister?

Madam Speaker: They always say that patience is a virtue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I will say this to the hon. Member for Chama South. Patience is a virtue.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.


135. Mr Mung’andu (Chama South) asked the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment:

(a)        why the Government issued licences to timber logging traders in the following areas in Chama District which form part of the Game Management Area (GMA), and are ecologically sensitive:

(i)         Chifunda;

(ii)         Mapamba;

(iii)       Chikwa;

(iv)       Pondo; and

(v)        Fuluza.

(b)        whether there were any consultations on the matter between the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment and the Ministry of Tourism.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Mr Nzovu): Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, has not issued any concession licenses to timber logging traders in Chifunda, Mapanba, Chikwa, Pondo and Fuluza Game Management Areas (GMAs)  in Chama District of Muchinga Province.

Madam Speaker, arising from the response to parts (a) and (b) of the question, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment engages the Ministry of Tourism whenever there is consideration for issuing Concession Licenses in Game Management Areas (GMAs). Further, the Forest Department always consults with the Department of National Parks and Wildlife. These consultations are held to ensure that there is collaboration in the management of the natural resources across the country and that the forest management plans are developed through a consultative manner as provided for in Section 42 of the Forests Act No. 4 of  2015.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am sure that all that people who are involved in conservation in this country watched a documentary on MUVI Television, where about three to ten trucks were impounded. Those trucks were carrying timber from those GMAs to Tanzania and yet, the hon. Minister is saying that the ministry has not issued any timber licenses in that area. Is he talking about this year or last year? I would need that clarification because if they have not, then they have done a good thing because our areas are being destroyed.

Mr Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question.

Madam Speaker, indeed, we have not issued any licenses at all. However, if there were any illegal activities which were rampant in the country, it was in the forest sector. Obviously, these continued for some time. I am happy to tell the hon. Member that we have by and large, reduced the illegalities in this sector. Indeed, that movie was spot onand we did something about. We arrested those illegal loggers and they forfeited the timber to the state.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the measures the ministry put in place. Now, as a long term measure, is the ministry considering going into good discussion with the hon. Minister of Tourism to ensure that all wildlife officers in our country are made honoraryforest rangers?  Most areas where there is rampant timber logging are protected areas and GMAs. In those areas, we do not have forest officers but wildlife police officers. Are the two ministries considering elevating wildlife officers and us as honorary wildlife officers, to honorary forest offices so that we protect those GMAs?

Mr Kampyongo: It is one and the same!

Madam Speaker: I do not know if my mind serves correct. Was it last time when the hon. Minister of Tourism honoured hon. Members as game rangers? I do not know if the hon. Member for Chama South was omitted.

Mr Nzovu: Madam Speaker, this is a very interesting question from hon. Mung’andu. Indeed, when the hon. Minister of Tourism stood in this House and requested hon. Members of Parliament to register as honorary game rangers, nearly, everybody stood up.  I am sure it is because of that tasty meat. However, when we ask them to be honorary forest rangers, they are very hesitant to join.

Madam Speaker, to answer the hon. Member’s question, there is very close collaboration between the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment through the forest sector and the Ministry of Tourism through the national parks. That collaboration is strong because as the House maybe aware, tourism happens in the environment and a better environment protects tourism.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.    

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the timber was forfeited to the State. What happened to the ten trucks that were carrying the same timber?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, this case is ongoing. If the hon. Member for Bwacha would like more details, we are able to give him those details at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.


136. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development when the Government will construct palaces for the following chiefs in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency:

  1. Mulilo;
  2. Chibale; and
  3. Lundu.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of palaces for Chief Mulilo, Chief Chibale and Chief Lundu, in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency, will be done by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, through the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF), and the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, indeed, we were guided by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to construct at least one chief’s palace each year using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). However, this has brought problems, especially in constituencies where there are more than two or three chiefs. Two or three chiefs want palaces at the same time. We explained to them that we can only construct one palace each year, but they are not listening. They think you love one chief over the other. Is it possible for the hon. Minister to liaise with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development so it can increase the number of palaces we can construct to two palaces in a year instead of one, because in some areas, there are more than three chiefs?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.

Madam Speaker, indeed, the needs in many areas of this country, including the building of chiefs’ palaces, are great. However, the resource envelope determines how many palaces can be built in a particular year. What is important is the beginning. Usually, those of us who travel to rural areas have found out that our chiefs throughout the country are very understanding. I had gone to the rural part of the Copperbelt where I met seven chiefs, and to Luapula, where I had individual meetings with nine chiefs, and they are very understanding. We explained to them, for example, the number of houses that had been allocated per province and how the selection of the houses that will be worked on was arrived at. When the economy improves, which the New Dawn Government is actively working on, the rate of accomplishing some projects that our people need will be increased.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response.

Madam Speaker, there are four chiefs in Chama North. At least, Senior Chief Kambombo has a palace which was built for him by the previous Government, but the three chiefs need palaces. However, this matter has been overtaken by events. This question was filed in before we were asked to build chiefs’ palaces using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). So, this year, we will start building the house for Chief Mulilo, and by 2025, we would have finished constructing the chiefs’ palaces.

Madam Speaker: That is a comment. I do not know if the hon. Minister would like to say something.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, indeed, this question is important, especially for those of us who come from rural constituencies. It is important that our traditional leaders live in dignified palaces.

Madam Speaker, apart from the circular, will the Government come up with a policy that will govern the implementation of this programme because those houses are supposed to be institutional houses and we know the dynamics of chiefdoms? Those of us who know the succession wrangles that emanate when one chief passes on foresee a challenge. So, there will be a need to ensure that the houses that are built are institutional houses.

Madam Speaker, the other concern is on the block figure that has been referred to. The hon. Minister being an engineer knows that the cost implication of putting up an infrastructure depends on the allocation, the distance and the transportation of materials that the contractor is supposed to use. So, having one block figure of K1 million across the constituencies might not be practical and might pose a challenge to the implementing agencies. Are we able to come up with a clear policy that would inform the implementation of the decision to build our traditional leaders institutional houses?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu raises a very important question, which has been taken into account in the policy that now governs the building of chiefs’ houses or palaces. In fact, chiefs have been asked to identify land that is neutral because the houses are not being built as personal to holder such that when a chief passes on, his family takes over. The houses will be for a particular chiefdom so that whoever succeeds goes in that house. So, that is what is in the policy, and I am aware that this is what is happening in certain chiefdoms. For example, in Mwansabombwe, whoever comes in as the Mwata Kazembe occupies the same place. In other places where there established chiefdoms, the same thing happens, and we want this to happen across the country as far as the houses are concerned.

Madam Speaker, as regards what the hon. Member said on the cost of building the palaces varying from place to place mainly as a result of transportation –


Eng. Milupi: When you ask a question, you pay attention and listen.


Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the K1 million is a budget. Within that K1 million, there will be certain variations and there is a certain percentage that would be allowed. So, it is difficult to come up with different figures, unless you specifically know the locations of certain palaces that you will build. However, we have given an average block figure of K1 million, but it does not mean that all the houses will cost K1 million. Some will cost less and others will cost more.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am giving Sinazongwe District as a typical example where we have had succession wrangles for the past ten years under chief Mweemba and a good number of disputes under chief Sinazongwe. You find that even the people from the royal establishments are divided in a very partisan manner. What is your advice on how are we going to go aboutthe construction ofhouses for chiefs when the people who are supposed to plan where to construct them are divided?

Madam Speaker: Although the hon. Member is referring to Sinazongwe District and the matter on the Floor is on Chama North. The hon. member for Shiwang’andu touched on that point. However, are there any other further amplifications from the hon. Minister?

Eng Milupi: Very briefly, Madam Speaker. The Government has pronounced itself on a number of chieftaincy wrangles throughout the country, and the need for them to revert to their traditions and customs. However, with respect to the building of houses, the Government will only build where there is an agreement of a neutral place so that we do not keep building palaces for every chief that comes into power.

Madam Speaker, for those who have seen the houses, they are quite substantial houses. I had occasion to visit the house that is being constructed and is almost complete for Senior Chief Mununga. These are substantial houses that will serve communities for much longer periods of time. Those who choose to have wrangles and are not able to agree on a neutral site risk being bypassed so that we concentrate on areas that give Government a site that would benefit the whole chiefdom.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I do not know whether the Government has considered the different types of succession. This is because succeeding to a throne differs from one chiefdom to another. For example, if I am a chief, I die and my son takes over, it is easier for him to enter that palace as my successor. But where a successor is picked from somewhere else, you find that they refuse to go into that palace. So, has the Government taken that into account to avoid having these palaces become white elephants?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I do not know what the hon. Member is referring towhen he says that these places will become white elephants. If he is referring to people being afraid because there will be things having been left there, I believe that wherever there are such things, there are also professionals …


Eng Milupi: … who carry out cleansing processes.

Hon. UPND Member: Amen!


Madam Speaker:  So, there is a solution to every problem.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, where a chief has two constituencies under his chiefdom, is it okay for the two constituenciesto contribute part of their Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to the construction of the chief’s palace? That is, the two constituencies putting money together from CDF and constructing the palace.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, it is like a river that cuts across or divides two constituencies. If there was a need to put a bridge that can be funded by CDF, it is only reasonable and logical that we would expect contributions from both areas. After all, if a chief has subjects in both constituencies, it is entirely reasonable to expect that there will contributions from both constituencies.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Daka: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Suppose two chiefs in the same constituency agreed to share theK1,000,000allocated so that their palaces are built at the same time. Would that be okay?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Msanzala is referring to a situation where in one constituency there are two or more chiefs, and them agreeing to share the allocated K1,000,000, rather than taking K1,000,000 for each house.

Madam Speaker, first of all, this is a Government programme that is defined by certain rules. If there is money allocated either from CDF or other sources for a certain site, we cannot move that money to another site, no matter how reasonable it would appear, without getting due permission. So, we have to be careful how we would treat a matter like that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.


137. Ms Nyemba (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Energy:

  1. whether there are any plans to connect Chishi Island in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency to the national electricity grid;
  2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
  3. when the project to connect power to the following areas in the constituency will be completed:

(i) Shikamushile;

(ii) Miponda; and

(iii) Chombwe; and

  1. what the cause of the delay in completing the project is.

Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, I will combine (a) and (b) as one question because they are related.

Madam Speaker, currently, the Government of the Republic of Zambia through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has no plans to connect Chishi Island in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency to the national electricity grid due to its geographical location, and accompanied costs. However, REA, currently, has plans to electrify the Island by means of installing a solar mini-grid.

Madam Speaker, currently, the distribution network is being constructed on the Island. It is anticipated that this phase will be completed by April, 2023. The next phase will involve setting up a solar photovoltaic (PV) stand-alone power plant that will power the mini-grid.This will involve the procurement and installation of solar panels and requisite infrastructure. The whole project to project to electrify Chishi Island is expected to be completed by the end of 2023.

The next phase will involve setting up a solar PV standalone power plant that will power the mini grid. This will involve procurement and installation of solar panels and requisite infrastructure. The whole project to electrify Chishi Island is expected to be completed by the end of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the project to supply power to Shikamushile, Miponda, Chombwe and the surrounding areas in Chifunabuli District was completed and technically commissioned in July, 2021. The backbone national grid electricity infrastructure which includes transmission and distribution lines as well as transformers has already been set up in Shikamushile, Miponda, Chombwe and the surrounding areas in Chifunabuli District by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA).

Madam Speaker, during this project, several households and public intuitions were connected. However, some of the buildings did not have any electrical wiring and therefore, could not be connected to the national grid at the time. However, there is a standing programme to connect any building or household that has conducted its building wiring by applying for connection to ZESCO Limited. So, question part (d) of the question falls off because there has been no delay in this project.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Again, this is one of the questions that has been over taken by events.

Ms Nyemba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister knows that Chifunabuli does not have a ZESCO Limited office and the people have been trotting up and down going to Samfya. The hon. Minister has given a good elaboration. However, as I stand here, I have not seen power at Shikamushile, Miponda, Chola Nsenga and Chombwe, yet there are ZESCO Limited transformers there.

Madam Speaker, what assurance is the hon. Minister giving to the people of Chifunabuli that these transformers will not be taken from them?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the infrastructure is already in position. If there is any vandalism, that should be reported to the Ministry of Homes Affairs and Internal Security to deal with. However, I assure you the hon. Member these transformers and infrastructure which are already in position will not be moved to any other constituency.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, Chifunabuli is one constituency that the hon. Minister knows very well and he knows the status of our people there. May I find out from the hon. Minister if the people of Chifunabuli will be paying the same connection fees as the people in the urban area? The structure of connection fees that we have seen is beyond the reach of many of our villagers, including those in Chifunabuli. Is there a deliberate measure that the Government is going to put in place in order for the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) to remain relevant to our rural citizens who would want to be connected to the national grid? I think it is the same for my hon. Colleagues on your right. The answer to this question will benefit all of us here.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not think the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu has been to a rural setting. What I can tell him is that –


Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, can I be protected so that I can finish my answer.


Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65. The question I have put to the hon. Minister is very important for all of us who are rural Members of Parliament, including my hon. Colleagues on your right-hand side. I have been representing the people of Shiwang’andu for more than ten years now and it is a village. Is the hon. Minister in order to insinuate that I have never been to a rural area?


Mr Kampyongo: That is why I talked about him knowing Chifunabuli very well because he wants to join us in the rural area.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, however, is he in order to insinuate that I have not been to a rural area when the people of Shiwang’andu are listening. I seek your serious guidance before he responds to the question.

Madam Speaker: Probably, the hon. Minister is confusing the Stewart Gore-Brownes of Shiwang’andu to –


Madam Speaker: However, for stating that the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu is not from a rural area, the hon. Minister is out of order. The hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu is in the deepest deep of the rural areas.


Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, there are two distinct connection projects, one for ZESCO Limited and the other for the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). That is why I am wondering why the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu cannot differentiate between REA-funded projects and ZESCO Limited-funded projects.

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited-funded projects have certain connection fees as opposed to REA-funded projects.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, the hon. Member would like to know if there are any connection fees and if so, how much will those be for the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) projects.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I will share the schedule with the House once I get the actual details that apply.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Nyemba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister knows Chifunabuli very well.


Ms Nyemba: I am very surprised at what he has told the House because he is supposed to be factual. There is no power connection at Miponda, Chola Nsenga, Shikamushile, Kakote Primary School and Chombwe.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister knows that Chifunabuli is far away from Samfya and the people have been going to Samfya for a long time to access ZESCO Limited services. Chifunabuli is now a district. Therefore, does your ministry have any plans of constructing a ZESCO Limited office in Chifunabuli to enable the people to access these services?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, let me first educate the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli. I have already stated that the question she brought to this House was about the electrification of the mentioned areas. I have informed the House that the infrastructure which is called the backbone is there. Probably, I should have explained it in Ng’umbo language for her to understand better. If now, she is requesting the Ministry of Energy to construct a ZESCO Limited office in Chifunabuli, that is another issue to look at.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I suppose you can engage and see how best you can resolve this issue. I believe there is some form of ‘cold war’ that is raging between the two.



138. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Technology and Science what measures the Government is taking to equip women and youths, countrywide, with technical skills.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati):Madam Speaker, I am merely a witness to the handover process.


Mr Mutati: I wish to inform this House as follows:

Policy and Legal Framework

At the policy and legal framework basis, in line with the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), the Government has recognised investment in skills development as one of the key pillars to the economic transformation and job creation agenda, particularly for women and youth. The ministry, therefore, is putting in place measures to equip all Zambians, including women and youth with appropriate technical knowledge, skills and aptitudes in order to enhance their livelihoods and contribute to their communities and the economy in general.

Madam Speaker, this drive to equip women and youth with technical skills is driven by the 2020 Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) Policy which …


Madam Speaker: Order!

Can we listen to the answer so that when we ask follow-up questions, that are relevant. Can we have some order!

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Mutati:… prioritises increasing access to quality TEVET education for sustainable development.

Capacity Building

  1. Training of Lecturers

To promote quality and relevance of TEVET, particularly for the women and youth in this sector, one of the policy measures the Government has taken is to develop and implement a Human Resources and Development Strategy for lecturers in TEVET Institutions. This is an on-going programme;

  1. Training Modes

The Ministry is also using different modes of delivery of training to ensure that women and youth are equipped with relevant technical skills. The ministry, through its implementation agency, TEVETA, and the training institutions conduct training through:

  1. classroom based;
  2. Open Distance and Flexible Learning (ODFL);
  3. recognition of priority learning;
  4. dual training;
  5. two tier system; and
  6. work place based learning.
  1. Programmes

The House may wish to note that all trades training institutes are offering relevant flagship training programmes that respond to the needs of the industry and the local economy such as the construction programme. This position has also driven the ministry to gradually transform some of the TEVET institutions into centres of excellence. So far, eight trades training institutions have been earmarked, of which two have already been commissioned as centres of excellence, one in Luanshya and the Kafue Gorge Regional Training Centre (KGRTC) in Chikankata.

Madam Speaker, the House may also wish to note that of the 25 per cent allocated towards skills development under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the majority of the beneficiaries are training in our trades training institutes;

  1. Inclusive Vocational Training

The Government has placed priority on inclusivity and equity in the provision of training for women and youth. This is seen from the deliberate policy the ministry has been implementing, not only skills in development, but employment absorption in both the formal and informal sector. This also includes the female/youth programme that has those with disabilities provided with 100 per cent bursaries. The Government has also established the TEVET fund which provides training funds and short courses for women and youth in the informal sector for re-skilling and up-skilling based on the local training needs of the community;

  1. Partnerships and collaborations

Madam Speaker, the government is also leveraging partnerships and collaborations in not only increasing access to skills training for women and youth, but also in the financing of skills development. For instance, the ministry has partnered with companies such as Hitachi Company Limited, CAMCO, Sino-Zambia, Kansanshi Mines, Lumwana Mines, the Germany International Co-operation in Zambia (GIZ) and Volvo to support specialised skills development such as solar energy, agriculture applications, and reforms for water sector programmes as well as heavy equipment operations, respectively;

  1. Initiatives

The ministry is implementing the desk manufacturing initiative in our TEVET institutions. In fact, this august House may wish to note that last year, in the month of November 2022, my ministry was hosted by the hon. Madam Speaker for a desk fair in the skills development sector right here on the grounds of the National Assembly;

Madam Speaker, to complement the above stated effort, the Government also launched the Youth Skills Empowerment Programme that allows for females and youth in constituencies to acquire various skills from TEVET institutions to enable them to gain skills and compete for projects at the constituency level. For this programme, the Government is delivering demand-driven skills to all the 156 constituencies and has trained over 10,000 youths as of December 2022;

  1. Infrastructure Development

Madam Speaker, further, the Government will this year commission trades training institutes in various parts of the country such as Sesheke, Mporokoso, Lundazi, Mumbwa and Nsumbu in order to enhance access to skills training and further bridge the skills gap for women and youth.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu:Madam Speaker, I posed this question deliberately. I know there is youth empowerment, which involves bursaries for trade institutes, but here is an observation. A youth is a living person below thirty-five, according to the law in Zambia. So, when a female is above thirty-five, she is no longer a youth. This is where I get concerned. According to the rules and standards of the CDF, any human being who is above thirty-five cannot be sponsored under that bursary scheme. That is why I extend to the ministry: What has it put in place for this section of people who are above thirty-five years, especially females who cannot go back to the youthful stage?


Mr Miyutu:Madam Speaker, whatever the hon. Minister has alluded to, there is still discrimination by age. So, what is it that will facilitate for those who are above thirty-five years?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central was very specific. In the question, he defined the youth, meaning those up to thirty-five years old and we answered according to the question asked.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

Madam Speaker: The question says: “To ask the Minister of Technology and Science what measures the Government is taking to equip women and youths, countrywide, with technical skills. So, there is segregation there. The hon. Minister should have covered the aspect of women as well.


Madam Speaker: Maybe the hon. Minister will address that issue at a later time since he is not ready for that.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

MrMenyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, the concerns by Hon. Miyutu speak and make alot of sense to me. The question concerns what measures the Government is taking to equip women and youths with technical skills.

Madam Speaker, during recess, I had an opportunity to visit one or two technical schools where we are sending our children to acquire technical skills. It was a sorry sight, to say the truth. I know the hon. Minister will agree with me that these schools have no equipment. We are taking people there to learn theory and not practical skills.

Madam Speaker, I interacted with the hon. Minister and his Permanent Secretary (PS) and I noted that their plans are good. If those plans are real, I hope the hon. Minister is going to answer this question. If those plans are real, I expect him to answer me and the nation. What are the plans of the ministry? How is the ministry going to equip the people we are sending to those technical schools with skills? We do not want a situation where people will be leaving those schools and later on, fail to start or run businesses. This means we will have not equipped them with skills. We are going to have over 100,000 graduates with skills and none of them will be able to stand on their own but they will want to start looking for employment which is not there. What is the ministry doing to ensure that those children gain skills and are able to sustain themselves when they graduate? In addition, when those children come out of those schools –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, one question at a time.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, in terms of the measures we are putting in place, we have what is called the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training(TEVET) fund which focuses on the informal sector. It has no definition of age for beneficiaries and provides 100 per cent tuition and teaching materials for women and youths in areas such as catering and tailoring. It even includes women who are carrying babies on their backs. There is no requirement for any qualification. The only qualification required is that one is able bodied and can be taught. That particular programme is proving to be quite effective in our training institutes.

Madam Speaker, for example, in Chongwe, when we train plumbers, bricklayers, electricians and so on, we provide the necessary tools for them to be trained. Again, this is funded under the TEVET fund. One can be a mother with a baby on her back and can still be able to access this opportunity. That is the practical measure that we are employing. Yes, it could be correct that in some institutions, the equipment may not be 100 per cent available but we are addressing that particular matter. So, our issue is inclusiveness and equity in terms of access to skills.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, in his response to the question that has been asked by the hon. Member for Kalabo Central, I heard the hon. Minister talk about capacity building and commissioning other trade institutes in different provinces. If he went around the existing tradeinstitutes that we have, he would find that most of the infrastructure is in a bad state. The equipment is obsolete and cannot be used. I want to find out whether the ministry has any plans of carrying out renovations and replacing the old equipment for our youths and young women who intend to start training.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, part of the answer said that we will capacitate lecturers. In most of our TEVET institutions such as St Mawaggali Trades Training Institute in Choma,we have fairly brand-new equipment. Some of the equpment has not even been unwrapped. Kabwe Institute of Technology has new equipment. In Kitwe, Hitachi provided us with state-of-the-art equipment. In Solwezi and Chipata, it is the same situation. So, equipment is not the issue. The issue is for us to capacitate lecturers to be able to teach. We have equipped most of the institutions with brand-new equipment. If you went to Chipata, you would find brand new tractors, ploughs and other agricultural implements that are used for training purposes. So, that, we are doing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister take constructing more skills training centres as a measure? If that can be the answer, why can he not construct a skills training centre in Nakonde so that the people of Nakonde can benefit from this institution?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, for the people of Nakonde, there is an institute in Isoka, which I think is fairly accessible. This year, like we have articulated, we will open four new training institutions having invested over K200 million. We will continue investing in infrastructure in all the needy areas, funds permitting.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, the demand for skills training has really grown due to the political will from the ministry. Is there an inspectorate team at the ministry that supervises Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship (TEVET) accredited institutions? I ask this question because in Sinazongwe, some youths wanted to do tailoring, and they found a school right here in Lusaka. Money was paid, and due diligence was given by the local authority. However, when they came to train, they were taken to another place other than the place that the institution had provided to the local authority when it went to do due diligence. Does the ministry have an inspectorate team that supervises TEVET accredited institutions?

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Infrastructure and Science. Oh sorry, the hon. Minister of Technology and Science. It is because you are seated together.


Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we also do infrastructure in technology.

Madam Speaker, indeed, there is an inspectorate team that goes to check whether the terms and conditions for which an institution was granted a Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship (TEVET) institution certificate are being complied with. A number of institutions that violated those conditions have actually been prosecuted. So, we will continue prosecuting the institutions that violate the conditions. In view of the case the hon. Member has referred to, he should provide us the information because that is abrogation of the conditions of the certificate and it is an offence.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister was responding, one of the qualifications he alluded to was that one has to be able bodied. Considering that the responses go on record, it is important that the hon. Minister qualifies what being able bodied means in this context, so that we do not create unnecessary hullabaloos, especially those of us who represent a community of different abled persons.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, for the elimination of doubt, one of the youths training in catering at Livingstone Institute of Business and Engineering Studies (LIBES) in Livingstone is disabled and was not disqualified. Being able bodied is having the ability to do the task, and she is doing catering. So, we mean anybody with the physical ability to carry out the function.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, between science and technology, one is the parent and the other one is the offspring. Technology is the offspring of science. This is 2023. The hon. Minister talked about the mode of training vis a vis the curriculum. At one point, the Committee on Youth, Sports and Child Matters conducted a tour and it recommended that there should be work fairs, not trade fairs, where various industries would showcase their demands to the trade institutes so that they train the students according to the needs of the industry. I am sure that report is at the Ministry of Youth, Sports and Arts.

Madam Speaker, in an area like Kalabo, we grow rice and a bit of maize. Are the students trained to come up with a mode of food engineered from rice? Are the students trained to do that or they are rhetoric? Do they just read the history of science, meaning there is no conversion for the future? What type of students are the trade schools producing? Are they producing old modelled students like back in the 1950s or students who are able to match the modern time?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I love the passion of the hon. Member for Kalabo Central.

Madam Speaker, let me give practical examples of various areas. For example, our institute in Kitwe partnered with Hitachi Construction Machinery Zambia. Hitachi Construction Machinery Zambia brought in modern mining equipment to deliver the skills of today and tomorrow so that the students who come out of that institution can get jobs in the mining sector with the knowhow of today’s and tomorrow’s equipment. Further, there is equipment at Solwezi Trades Training Institute in Solwezi that is supported by Kansanshi Mine. The youths who are trained at the institution go for attachments at Kansanshi Mine to deliver practical output. So, that is what we are doing. In Chipata, we have brand new tractors, ploughs and other agricultural implements that are used to teach the youths in case they want to be farmers. However, if you want them to add value addition, that is another phase.Firstly, you have to have the skills to know how to use them. The next step is value addition. Therefore, science is the equipment of skills. Technology, is the innovation and represents value addition. That is another level of skills which we are to invest in. We are not dealing with yesterday’s curriculum. That is why, in our institutions, we are connecting them with internet for free.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: This is so that they can access today’s and tomorrow’s information and skills. We are doing all those things to ensure that what comes out of the furnace, in terms of skills, is fully baked.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: That is the strategy. So, hon. Member for Kalabo, we shall invite you. The report you are talking about was yesterday’s report. You should come and see what improvements we have made today as a result of the valuable recommendation you delivered to the ministry to improve upon the delivery of skills.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, at the time the hon. Member went there, there was no Hitachi. In Livingstone, we do tourism related skills which are informed by the industry like food production including taking tourists on safari walks and that is functional. Those are the skills. We need to walk with you so that you are able to see that indeed change is here. Indeed, change is happening.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to note that there is modern equipment in Solwezi, Kitwe and Chipata. Unfortunately, I cannot include Mongu Trades Institute which is the one that, I, as Member of Parliament for Luena, take my students to. As part of preparing our trade institutes for a huge number of students we are sponsoring through Constituency Development Fund (CDF), does the ministry have any plan to equip some of the outlaying institutes that are probably not on the radar when it is comes to donations made by companies that also benefit from the skills, as well as, increasing the number of qualified personnel in these institutes. I am saying so on the number of qualified personnel in these institutes because we visit our students in these institutions where we send them to, and you will find some of them giving you feedback that the timetable shows that they should be learning for eight hours in a week but they are only learning for two hours because of the shortage of teaching staff as well as equipment.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Liuwa.


Mr Mutati: Luena!


Mr Mutati: They are neighbours. They are in the same –


Mr Mutati: My hon. Minister is not here this afternoon, so –

Madam Speaker, one of the positives that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has done is to providing tremendous access for delivery of skills to the youths. One of the positives that CDF has done is that in a number of our institutions, quite frankly, that were struggling, today, because of the numbers, their levels of liquidity have improved. All the twenty-eight of them are now solvent. They have cash. So, that will give us capacity. If you take, even Mongu, its installed capacity is just under 500 but with CDF, they have 1,500 that have come all of a sudden. Now, you do not build lecturing capacity like that. It is a process where you need to equip and find appropriate lecturers to be able to attend to that. So, we have identified those issues that CDF badge, positive as it is, it has created us a challenge to meet, particularly, the lecturing capacity because of the numbers.

Madam Speaker, I was recently in Lukashya Trades Institute, its installed capacity, in terms of training, 400 plus students. Now, they have got over 2,000 students. The positivity fine of free education, CDF and everything else. It is better to solve a good problem than a bad problem.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: We are treating this as a good problem for which we shall create a good solution.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, let me agree with the hon. Minister that many training institutions have become solvent because of the initiative of skills empowerment. My constituency has a very youthful population. For 2023, we received applications that will cost us about K8 million, which is about K3 million above what is targeted in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Whereas, in the CDF, the guidelines are very clear. Young people can easily know what to do in as far as accessing the initiative is concerned. If you talk about the higher education loaning facility in universities, it is quite clear. With the shortfall of K3 million to cater for young people in Nkana, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if we could fall back on the initiative under the Technical, Entrepreneurial, Vocational Education and Training(TEVET) Fund, which he mentioned. We are very blank on the criteriato be able to access the fund. Is the hon. Minister in a position toexplain to us in very simple terms how we can access the TEVET Fund.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I just said that even in Nkana, we only have one institution. We are overflowing in term of students to train at the moment. The numbers are huge. However, coming back to issues of access for the Technical, Entrepreneurial, Vocational Education and Training(TEVET) Fund, the criterion is simple; the institution that receives applications for skills then applies for the TEVET Fund to supplement their existing capacity. At the moment, obviously, they are overflowing with money. The TEVET Fund will assist you for those youths to pay a little fee. So, I encourage you to get to the Director for TEVET. He will give you the precise steps that you need to follow in order to address the gap that you have defined.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think we have spent a lot of time on this question. It is interesting but I will allow two more questions. Okay, the three that have indicated to ask. Wow! I have just seen that – Okay, I will allow three more.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, I am aware that there are some private institutions accredited to Technical, Entrepreneurial, Vocational Education and Training(TEVET) that have been reaching out to our constituencies for us to give them youths to go and train there in a bid that the ministry does fund them. Does the ministry monitor the institutions to find out the type of lecturers and equipment that they have, just to see the quality of education they are giving to our youths and women?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, it is done at two points. Firstly, it is at theissuance of the certificate. The inspectors go to the institution and carry out appropriate inspection at infrastructure level, capacity level and, indeed, all the variables that are required in order for us to grant a certificate. Once we are satisfied that you meet that criterion, then you are issued with a certificate.

Madam Speaker, at the second level, the inspectors carry out periodical checks, including surprise checks to ensure compliance to the conditions of the certificate that has been given. However, I think there must be a third stage which the hon. Members of Parliament such as the hon. Member for Kabwe Central can also inform us if she sees any deficiency so that we can direct our inspectors to go and carry out the work.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, in one of the hon. Minister’s responses, he indicated that the ministry will continue to invest in infrastructure development. I would like to find out how many skills development centres it intends to construct this year, and in which areas and at what cost.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I think if the hon. Member wants such details, I advise that he puts in a question. Maybe, the hon. Minister can only answer the first part of the question to do with how many, if any, or if he knows. If he does not have the information, then the he can say so.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we have already said that we are completing and commissioning five trades training institutions. For Mporokoso, the cost is K60.1 million, for Mumbwa, the cost is K46.3 million, for Lundazi, it is K35 million, Sesheke, the cost is K33 million and for Sumbu, it is K17 million.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, my apologies, I was away when I was initially called upon. What is the roadmap for skilled youths such as the young man in my constituency in Sumauli Ward, Muyanda area, who has a skill of making biomass and other things to make electricity for homes? There was another one in Maubwe who also wanted to connect homes, but he was stopped. These are skilled youths who just need, maybe, technical support and equipment from the ministry. Is there a roadmap of ensuring these youths become useful in our constituency by enabling them to provide electricity to everybody and also use many other skills that they may have?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, indeed, we have an amazing youth in Mbabala who has an innovation to make electricity from a pit latrine using technology. He has done that and since we are dealing with electricity, we have now engaged the Ministry of Energy because there are regulations to do with issues of safety and other things in order to supply electricity. So, we are in the process of getting ZESCO Limited to issue safety standards for that youth to be able to implement what he has innovated.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, everything is science, including the gadgets we are using here and the seat I am sitting on. Be it an aeroplane or a cross, everything is science. The type of education that we have is somehow tailored to some clerical type of jobs. Since the New Dawn Government is encouraging skills development, do we see, in the near future, a totally new curriculum that will enable the youth, women and everyone who has that natural interest in science to be innovative? Are we seeing a curriculum change so that the science in us all is utilised not just to assemble things, but to also innovate?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, harvesting from the wisdom of the hon. Member regarding science is a reason we have said at the moment, we have focused on equipping the youths and women with skills. We are now revising the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Act to be able to elevate it to the next level where we will be able to provide degree courses so that the science component that he is talking about can be delivered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

139. Mr Kalimi (Malole) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

  1. why the construction of classrooms at the following schools in Malole Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;
  1. a 1 x 2 classroom block at Chilombwa Primary School; and
  1. a 1 x 2 and a 1 x 3 classroom blocks at Mumba Primary school;
  1. when the projects will resume;
  1. what the time frame for the completion of each project is; and
  1. what the cost of the outstanding works on each project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of a 1 x 2 classroom block at Chilombwa Primary School stalled due to inadequate funds to complete the project.

Madam Speaker, the construction of the 1 x 2 and 1 x 3 classroom blocks at Mumba Primary School have stalled due to inadequate funds. The projects will resume once funds to complete the remaining works are secured.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe for the completion of the construction of the 1 x 2 classroom block at Chilombwa Primary School is estimated at two months while the construction of the 1 x 2 and 1 x 3 classroom blocks at Mumba Primary School is three months, subject to the availability of adequate funds.

The cost of completing the construction of the 1 x 2 classroom block at Chilombwa Primary School is estimated at 150,000. The cost of completing the construction of the 1 x 2 and 1 x 3 classroom blocks at Mumba Primary School is estimated at K400,000.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, I expected that I would be told that ‘when funds are available’ yet students that side are learning under a tree. For one classroom block to be completed, it would only cost K100. These are Government projects. How I wish it was something to do with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but we cannot take capital projects from Government and use the CDF on them. It is not possible. When are the funds going to be available?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, this is a subject on which we have pronounced ourselves in this House. I remember, last year, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning came to this House and talked about theprocess that he had initiated to procure some funding from one of these multilateral institutions for the completion of some of these unfinished projects, especially in the education sector. It has to wait until that process is over. Nothing would please the New Dawn Government more than to have the entire educational infrastructure completed so that our children can have access to quality education.

Madam, let me give the hon. Member for Malole a bit more information. Initially, Chilombwa Primary School was funded to replace a roof that had been blown off from the classroom block. It received K106,000. However, when the money was finally released to repair the roof, it was found out that the entire building had instead collapsed and there was no roof, therefore, to repair.

Madam Speaker, these projects were funded under the provincial/district administrations. The money received was, therefore, used to construct a new 1 x 2 classroom block, stated above. The classroom block has since been roofed and plastered, but due to the non availability of funds to complete the project, it has stalled.

The outstanding works are the fitting of window frames, painting, glazing, fitting of doors, locks and shelving.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Malole says pupils are learning under a tree, but the information I have is that the school is being used in its current form. In other words, some of these classroom blocks are being used even though they are not complete. So, the information I have is that there are 317 learners at this school with four permanent teachers and four classrooms.

On the other hand, Mumba Primary School Project was allocated a budget of K120,000 and K180,000 for the 1 x 2 and 1 x 3 classroom blocks, respectively by the Government. Due to inadequate releases of funds, the 1 x2 and 1 x 3 classroom blocks were roofed and the metal works done. So, that is where it was outstanding.

Madam Speaker, in summary, every time a Member of Parliament asks about uncompleted structures, sometimes, if he was not following our responses, he might get the impression that the problem or the issue only exists in that particular constituency, but all hon. Members of Parliament have similar situations of unfinished education infrastructure. That is what we are grappling with. It must be looked at nationally.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Minister now has more real information than the answer he gave. Let me state categorically that I come here to speak on behalf of the people of Malole and that is why I was elected. I identify problems in Malole and not in Luena or Mitete.


Amb. Kalimi: So, I am here to identify problems. The question I want to ask the hon. Minister is whether he has been to Chilombwa or Mumba. He should not be given things on his desk. I am from Malole Constituency and, therefore, know what I am talking about. If he had the answer he has provided now, why did he not give it at first?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Anyway, the hon. Member is reacting to what the hon. Minister has said. So, we can give the opportunity to the hon. Member for Lukashya.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, considering that these are still unfinished structures, would it not be ideal for the Government to provide temporally structures for our learners like tents from the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) during the rain season?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, indeed, I recognise that hon. Members of Parliament are elected to represent their constituencies. It must also be recognised that a Government is also put in place to represent the whole country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: So, we have to lookat the total picture.

Madam Speaker, our focus at that moment is what I have said; to get extra resources so that all the unfinished structures in the education sector are completed, especially when we have come up with the project of free education. We know that the numbers have increased and will continue to increase. So, that this is dealt with holistically. The finding of this money, I know, is part of the process of resolving the debt. That needs to be done, and we are hoping that by the end of this first quarter, there may be a solution in that direction.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, seeing as education is very important for our children and for our nation and considering that the CDF is coming from the National Treasury, is there no way that we can try to use it to complete a school like my colleague is talking about so that our children can have a good environment to learn from?

Eng Milupi: Madam Speaker, precisely, all the Government resources are national resources. Where an hon. Member of Parliament identifies a particular urgent need, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) can be used to address that provided that normal procedures are followed. We can give many examples where hon. Members of Parliament have come up with solutions and have not waited for the Central Government to undertake such projects. The reason we, as the New Dawn Government keep on increasing CDF is precisely that at local stations, matters such this could be attended to. If they are not attend to, they have to wait until resources are mobilised. That is what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is doing. However, in the meantime, if this is more urgent than other issues in Malole Constituency, it could be addressed by some allocation of the CDF in that particular direction.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.


140. Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

  1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a youth recreation centre in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency; and
  2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that the ministry has no plans to construct a youth recreation facility in Mkaika Constituency. However, the Government, through the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts has continued to prioritise youth and sport infrastructure development in the country. This has been demonstrated by the construction of two ultra-modern stadia and multi-purpose sport facility such as the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC) in Lusaka.

Madam Speaker, there are no plans to implement the construction of a youth recreation centre in Mkaika. Nevertheless, the ministry is engaging different stakeholders to support the ministry’s plan to construct and rehabilitate national, provincial and district multi-purpose sports infrastructure in the country. This will include rehabilitating the David Kaunda Stadium in the Eastern Province, thereby, benefiting the youths in Mkaika Constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, we have been hearing that the ministry is constructing recreation centres in other districts. I just want to know why this is not happening in Mkaika.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, currently, we have a draft infrastructure development plan that includes coming up with resources centres and sports infrastructure. When this plan is validated, I will be able to communicate with hon. Members of Parliament because I believe that such questions will continue coming from hon. Members. So, I want to say that we have priorities. As seen, we have firstly started with four provincial capitals, in Kaole Stadium, in Mansa, Independence Stadium in Solwezi, Kasama Sports Complex in Kasama, and David Kaunda Stadium in Chipata, Eastern Province. So, we are likely to go the Western Province. I was just chatting with some hon. Members of Parliament from the Western Province over the virgin land that is there, where we can construct a stadium. When we are done with the provincial stadia, definitely, we will get to the districts. So, whenever we have the money, obviously, we will be able to put up the infrastructure.

However, for this year, I want to state clearly that the K50 million that was allocated to the ministry for infrastructure may even be swallowed. This is becasue we are hosting the Confederation of African Athletics (CAA), where we are spending colossal amounts of money to the tune of about K100 million, to renovate the Heroes Stadium and the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC), so that we have quality infrastructure here in Lusaka. We may not have the resources this year but when we have, and with the help of the hon. Members of Parliament, to allocate more resources to the ministry, we will be able to develop sports infrastructure in the districts. Who knows, we may even go to constituencies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, I do not know whether the hon. Minister is confusing the two. He is talking about renovating the stadium and the provincial sports facilities. I am talking about a recreation centre in Mkaika Constituency. Our youths in Mkaika cannot travel to Chipata because the distance is about 100 km. So, I do not know whether the hon. Minister is confusing the two. I am not sure whether his ministry has no plans to construct recreation centres, but wants to prioritise the stadium.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I do not think I am confusing myself. Maybe, the hon. Member of Parliament is the one who is somehow, confusing himself. I stated clearly that we do not have plans to construct a recreation centre. That was the first answer.  Maybe, for the hon. Member to understand that I am not confused, let me define what a recreation centre is. A recreation centre is merely a building that is open to the public where meetings are held, sports are played, and other activities for the young people are done. That is the definition of a recreation centre. So, I know what I am taking about. I just gave examples that we may not have the capacity to give the hon. Member what he requires because this year, we are spending a lot of money on rehabilitating the Heroes Stadium. That was just an example.

Madam Speaker, for the hon. Member’s information, we are going to host the Confederation of African Athletics (CAA) in April, this year. So, that is where our effort and energy has gone to. However, before we even go to Mkaika Constituency and other districts, we are going to make sure that all the provincial stadia are worked on. So, It wanted to rest this issue so that other hon. Members of Parliament note that they may not receive these recreation centres in their constituencies because our priority areas are the provinces and then, districts.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker,I heard the hon. Minister state that the stadium in North-Western Province is called Independence Stadium. Why should we continue naming stadiums “independence stadium” when there are eminent persons from the North-Western Province likeMr Brian Kambita, Mr Elliot Kamondo and our Chief Whip?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Surely, should we continue talking about independence when we are now in a modern era and there are people likeMr Kavindele and the late Mushala. Why should we continue using “independence’’ to name places when we talk about the independence of the country every year? Why can we not change the name of the stadium, the same way we changed the name of the Independence Stadium here in Lusaka to Heroes Stadium? There are eminent people whowecan name the stadium after. If you do not have names, you can name it after Edgar Sing’ombe from Dundumwezi.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker:That question is not related to the main one. Since it is a comment, I am sure the hon. Minister has taken note.

Hon. UPND Member:He has an answer.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, I believe you have an answer.

Mr Nkandu: Just a comment, Madam Speaker. I thought the hon. Member would say that why can we not name it Nelly Stadium because I think he has been looking for names.


Mr Nkandu:Madam Speaker, we are not renaming any stadium. We found the stadium alreadyIndependence Stadium. So, we have not changed anything. Maybe,the question would have been: When are we going to change some of the stadium names?That could have sounded better. However,for now, there isIndependence Stadium in the North-Western Province. If there will be a reason to change the name, then we will sit down and change it, and the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central may also give us input in that regard.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker:Hon. Members, it is an on-going process, so, you can consult.


141. Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika) (on behalf ofMr Kafwaya (Lunte) asked the Minister of Justice:

  1. whether the Government settled any court matters with other parties through consent judgments between August, 2021 to June, 2022;
  2. if so, what the total number of such cases was;
  3. of the total number of cases at (b),how many involved compensating the complainants; and
  4. how much money had been paid to the complainants as of 30th June, 2022.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government settled a number of court matters with other parties through consent judgments between August, 2021 and June, 2022, as is the usual practice.

Madam Speaker, the total number of consent judgements entered into by the Government with other parties during the period under review is thirty-two.

Madam Speaker, out of the thirty-two cases in which the Government settled through consent judgementswith other parties between August, 2021, and June, 2022, it has compensated nine complainants.

Madam Speaker, the records show that the money paid to the complainants as of 30th June, 2022, is K6,546,471.55.

Madam Speaker, the House may also wish to note that a consultant has been engaged, in response to the Presidential directive to dismantle domestic arrears, to carry out an audit of the compensation and awards debt. The terms of reference include verifying debt obligations and the authentic accuracy and completeness of the same. The audits have since commenced.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, we appreciate the response from the hon. Minister.Has it now become a standard practice that people who are discharged on nolle prosequi can also settle matters with the Government, and seek compensation?

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, whilst the question is broad, I will endeavour to respond to it. To my knowledge, the learned Attorney-General’s Chambers, which is mandated to represent the Government in matters where there are claims against it, treats each matter on its own merits. If the hon. Member had spoken specifically about a matter and its facts, perhaps I would have given more details on that, but as it stands, each case is looked at on its merits. I am aware that aside from being discharged on nolle prosequi, certain individuals would have been treated in such a manner by the State in previous times as to warrant claims, for example, for unlawful detention and similar claims which are annexed to the matters pursuant which we have seen actions being commenced against the Attorney-General.So, that would inform the basis upon which compensation is awarded.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to indicate to the House what the nature of the claims were? Further, what motivated the State to enter into consent settlement with the claimants?

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the nature of the claims is wide and varied. Suffice it to say that in the immediate past, and even prior to the period under consideration, we saw an upswing of cases that arose from the violation of the rights of citizens. For instance, as we speak, we have certain cases arising from extra-judicial killings that are under consideration. These are killings that took place predominantly in 2019 and2020,leading up to the elections, andthe police exceeded their mandate for a number of them. We also have a number of cases arising from unlawful and over-detention. Again, these cases were very predominant during the last period that I spoke of, and we are seeing many claims for compensation in respect of –

Hon. UPND Member: Kampyongo!

Mr Haimbe: There are also many cases relating to malicious persecution that were settled in that period.I thinkthat gives a clear picture of why we receivedsuch cases and the compensation that follows.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister help us distinguish between cases of unlawful detention and malicious prosecution. Between the two, which one would one utilise for claiming from the State?What is the general rule surrounding this because as I layman, I know that if one is detained for a long period and has not been tried, then one has not been maliciously prosecuted. Is there anyone who ever claimed was in such a situation where he/she was detained for a long time, but was never prosecuted?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, in response, let me make a general comment that the two are not mutually exclusive. More often than not, they do go hand in hand because the process of prosecution is not merely of one appearing before a court of law, but starts from investigations, the subsequent arrest and processes that follow in the criminal justice system. So, it is entirely possible for an individual to be over detained. In fact, in many of the cases, it did occur not to be brought before the courts of law until, for example, a habeas corpus application is taken before the courts of law and finally the individuals are released.

Madam Speaker, in most cases, you would find that families did not even know where these individual were being held. This brings in the aspect of malice in the manner in which the criminal proceedings were undertaken against them.

Madam Speaker, speaking to the question of discharge, at the point when the individuals would ordinarily begin trial, the state would enter a nolle prosequi despite the fact that the persons would have suffered the indignity of being arrested and of being detained for prolonged periods. So, this is a trend and a very predominant trend that the state appeared to have been involved in the recent past. Luckily now with the new approach to criminal justice, we are seeing less of these cases. So, the cases that were subject of the conversations we are speaking of came in the period immediately preceding mostly August 2021. This is why they are being sorted out now.

Madam Speaker, let me also point out that it is not only the cases relating to the unlawful detention and the criminal justice process that we see. We have, for the information of the House, a backlog of cases of varying nature that the Compensation Fund is expected to pay. The cases are in staggering amounts, of course, with historic cases prior to August, 2021, which was the period under review in the question. However, for the information of the nation, you will find that we have in excess of K5.7 billion in outstanding claims which were resolved by consent in the immediate period preceding August 2021. So, that should give a complexion of the level at which the Compensation Fund is encumbered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned unlawful detention and prolonged detention. How long could you describe a detention as legal? I want to understand whether it is five days or six months so that we do not take the Government to court.

Madam Speaker: I think we should have a seminar in law, here.

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the rule of thumb is that, firstly, the constitution provides for a reasonable time in which one must be brought before a court of law when accused of a criminal offense. I said the rule of thumb is a period that should not exceed 48 hours. However, in the matters that we are speaking of, the standard period would be something in the range of fourteen days before an individual’s whereabouts are even known by the family and person concerned with their well-being.

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, many of the cases, which had to go habeas corpus, to the High Court to order the release of the individuals were in excess of thirty days detention before being brought to a court of competent jurisdiction for trial. So, quite clearly, that amounts to unlawful detention, especially were malice is included in the criminal prosecution process.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P. Phiri(Mkaika): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the people who won the case were compensated. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the Government will treat those who are being detained now the same way the others were treated? Suppose they win and it is discovered that their detention was unlawful, will they be compensated?

Mr Haimbe:Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is requiring me to respond to a hypothetical situation that has not occurred yet and is therefore, purely speculative. That said, the answer to your question hon. Member, through you Madam Speaker, is that the law is blind. It is not as though the individuals tasked with the responsibility of managing the compensations and awards funds do so arbitrarily, they certainly act blindly in accordance with the provisions of the law, and the Compensations Fund Act No. 43 of 2016 is very clear on the criteria to be used in determining how compensation is paid. I urge the hon. Member to look at Part 4, in particular, of that Act. I can provide a copy, if he so wishes. It is very clear on the process to be followed.

Madam Speaker, the nation might want to know, in the process, that the final determination of who gets paid is by the Committee. So, even as the officers from the Ministry of Justice make recommendations for payments, the ultimate decision is by the committee which comprises specific individuals as stated out in the law including completely independent persons. The process is transparent and is not dependent on any individual whims, it is the law that decides. Should that hypothetical situation come to pass, any time in the future, that law will dictate.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, K5.3 billion is just too much an envelope on the head of the Treasury. What is the New Dawn Government and, indeed, the ministry doing to ensure that there is a reduction in such claims in future?

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the claims arise from the proper application of the rule of law or the lack thereof, in this particular instance. As the New Dawn Government, His Excellency, the President has been very clear and he has made policy pronouncements even in this House that we stand by the rule of law. That is the first point of call. Secondly, there needs to be a lot of diligence in the manner in which we enter into certain obligations as a State. That comes back to the clear policy guidelines given by His Excellency, the President.

Madam Speaker, even in the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), we have made it clear as the New Dawn Administration that the fourth pillar, which is the governance pillar under the Ministry of Justice as the custodian, will be observed so as to bring some – I was going to use the word sanity but I will say order instead, in the manner in which the affairs of the nation are conducted. So, hon. Member, through you Madam Speaker, this is a matter of proper governance and leadership, which is what we,as the New Dawn Government have brought already.

These claims, as I said, amounting to K5.7 billion, are historical. In dismantling the claims, each year, there is a budget allocation. Though a drop in the ocean, it is a commitment to try and resolve this matter. In the 2022 Budget, K300 million was allocated and in 2023, we have been allocated K500 million. So, we are sorting out matters that we did not create. We are a responsible Government and will see it done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!




The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1821 hours until0900 hours on Friday, 17th February, 2023.