Tuesday, 13th December, 2022

Tuesday, 13^thDecember, 2022

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

The House met at 0900 hours

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to theeffect that in theabsence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other GovernmentBusiness, the Minister of Defence, Hon. Ambrose Lufuma,MP, has been appointed Acting Leader ofGovernment Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 13^thDecember, 2022, until further notice.

I thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR C. CHIBUYE, HON. MEMBER FOR ROAN, ON MR MWIIMBU, HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON ATTACKS ON POLICE OFFICERS

Mr C. Chibuye (Roan): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr C. Chibuye: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, and good morning to you.

Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance that I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and it is of recent happenings. A few weeks ago, our gallant men and women in uniform were attacked in Katete. They were bruised and left for dead. One week ago, again, our gallant women and men in uniform were attacked in Luanshya in my constituency in Kawama where the famous bwelabwela was being practiced. Our men and women in uniform were left with injuries and the windscreen of a Government vehicle was broken.

Madam Speaker, last week, a lone truck driver attacked two police officers in Mpongwe, seriously butchering them. Unfortunately, one of our gallant men succumbed to the beatings and passed on in Ndola Central Hospital. May his soul rest in peace.

Madam Speaker, I am worried that the people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens are the ones who are being attacked. I want to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security if at all there is anything that is missing which has led to our men and women in uniform being attacked of late. Is the ministry put in place any measures to avert further attacks on our men and women in uniform before we lose more of them?

Madam Speaker, I need your serious guidance.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. I see that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is in the House. I do not know if he wants to react to that now.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Thank you, Madam Speaker. With your indulgence, allow me to come to this House before we close, for me to issue a ministerial statement on the same.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. How is Friday this week, the last day? Is it too late?

Mr Mwiimbu: If possible, Thursday, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: On Thursday, 15^th December, 2022, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security will come to this House to issue a statement on that matter.

There was only one indication for a matter of urgent public importance. I do not know at what point the hon. Member for Bwacha indicated, but I think he came in late. Anyway, since it is Christmas time, the hon. Member for Bwacha may raise his matter.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

MR MUSHANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR BWACHA, ON MR MWIIMBU, HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, ON BODIES FOUND IN NGWEREE

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mushanga: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity. Indeed, it is Christmas time.

Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance is directed at my brother, Hon. J.J. Mwiimbu, the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker, it is in the public domain and on social media that dead bodies were found although the number is not very clear. In some sections of the media, it was reported that they were twenty-eight and in others, thirty. I do not want to speculate on the nation where those people came from, but more than twenty-eight dead bodies were found in Ngwerere.

Madam Speaker, that is a matter of urgent public importance. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has not issued any statement outside and inside Parliament. As representatives of the people and the nation at large, we want to know what led to that fateful morning when those bodies were found.

I need your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I am sure the hon. Minister can combine those two statements on Thursday, 15^th December, 2022.

Mr Mwiimbu: Much obliged, Madam Speaker.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

COMPLETION OF KALENSE TOLL PLAZA

99. Ms Mwamba (Kasama Central) (on behalf ofMr Chisanga (Lukashya)) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

when the construction of Kalense Toll Plaza on the Kasama/Luwingu Road will be completed;
what the cause of the delay in completing the project is; and
what the cost of the outstanding works is.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo) (on behalf ofthe Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, the construction of Kalense Toll Plaza on the Kasama/Luwingu Road is expected to be completed by the end of the first quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, the cause of the delay in completing the project has been attributed to funding challenges.

Madam, the outstanding cost of works is K2.1 million.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, the toll gate in question is operational despite the infrastructure not being complete. There are about two booths that are on either side of the road. During the rainy season, like now, it becomes a very big challenge for motorists and the operators of the booths without shelter. If, indeed, it is a question of resources, the toll gate, by now, should have raised more than the money that is required to complete the infrastructure that the hon. Minister stated.

Madam Speaker, what could be the immediate solution to the current challenge? As we speak, motorists are being inconvenienced during the rainy season. What could be done in order to make people who are paying money at the toll gate to be encouraged?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I enjoyed the emphasis of the hon. Member of Parliament that members of the public are paying money. You can pay only money, you cannot pay anything else.

Madam, indeed, the concern of the hon. Member of Parament is true, but I challenge him to take a drive on this road. He will find that the percentage of the progress so far is 80 per cent, which includes the pavement and the control building which are complete The remaining item on the toll plaza is just a canopy. Like I said, within the next three months, we should be going towards completion.

Madam, further, he is aware, having been an hon. Minister before, that money that is collected at the toll gate does not remain planted there, it goes to Control 99. It goes without saying that each vehicle that passes pays a K20, but that K20 is not added to the remaining work at the toll plaza. However, I want to give some comfort to the hon. Member of Parliament that by March next year, all will be done and motorists will be very happy.

Madam, it should also be known that the Kasama/Luwingu Road which goes all the way to Mansa is now being used more than ever because of the damage that has been caused on the Nakonde/Kapiri Road. We are quite certain that motorists will be smiling sooner rather than later.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, what structural features are on the toll plaza to warrant more than K2 million? I think the price is exaggerated. Maybe he could shed light on that.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, firstly, let me allay the fear that there has been exaggeration. As a matter of fact, the works were standing initially at K4.9 million as at 2020. However, due to time that has passed and the escalation of cost of material, the price has gone up by another K1 million to K5.8 million.

Madam, in terms of the scope of work that is being done at this toll plaza, it includes and is not limited to the following: clearing and grubbing, removal of unsuitable materials, widening of the existing road, construction of 1,200 mm gravel selected layer, construction of 150 mm cement stabiliser sub-base layer, construction of 300 mm thick reinforced concrete course, construction of a control house, supply and installation of steel canopy and provision of road markings and signs and also ancillary works.

Madam, I can confirm to the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi East that so far there is no exaggeration of the cost of material.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the precise answers that he has given to the question. Let me make a comment that in the past, we noted that Kalense Toll Gate was a security risk, as it stands. We have lost a life there and women have been raped. I just wish to urge the Government to expedite the completion of the toll gate so that we may not experience any more calamities from the toll gate. It is now Christmas period. I am sure there will be more funds and it will be a targeted area.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. I do not know if the hon. Minister would like to comment on that?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I can only thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama for alerting us that there are some social ills that are going on around Kalense Toll Plaza as a result of it not being concluded on time. I am also certain that since we are one Cabinet, the hon. Minister responsible for social order has taken note. If he has not, I will let him know that there are some challenges that are associated with the delay in completing this project. However, the word of assurance is that within the next three months, plus or minus, we should conclude these works.

I thank you, Madam.

UPGRADE OF MONGU AIRPORT

100. Mr Amutike (Mongu Central)asked the Minister of Transport andLogistics:

whether the Government has any plans to upgrade Mongu Airport to enable it accommodate commercial aeroplanes; and
if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to upgrade Mongu Airport to a modern domestic airport with increased capacity to accommodate larger aircrafts than it is able to accommodate currently.

Madam, works are definitely scheduled to commence in the first quarter of 2023.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Amutike: Madam Speaker, currently, the airport does not have a boundary fence. This had led to intruders moving in and out of the restricted area, therefore posing danger to both the people and the aircraft that are currently landing there. Does the Government have an urgent plan to construct a boundary fence in order to mitigate that risk?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, the Government, through the Zambia Airports Corporation Limited, has put in place a phased approach of infrastructure upgrade at Mongu Airport. In the first phase, we wish to rehabilitate the air traffic control tower, office terminal building and the construction of the airport perimeter fencewill be undertaken to meet local and international aviation security standards.

Madam Speaker, works under phase one are scheduled to commence in the first quarter of 2023. Therefore, the hon. Member should rest assured the Government through the Zambia Airports Corporation is definitely looking into those issues.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics has informed the nation that works will start in the first quarter of 2023. Is he able to tell the nation the cost of the upgrading works?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, sufficient resources have been allocated in the 2023 Budgetbut I do not have quite the specifics of those particular works.However, that can be availed at another time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambita(Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence to ask this follow-up question, which is rather slightly general, taking advantage of the fact that the hon. Minister has given a very import answer to that question about Mongu Airport.

Madam Speaker, to understand Government’s policy towards improving the state of airports across the country, could the Mongu situationbe replicated elsewhere, where we have these aerodromes and the like? Does the Government have any plans to improve our airports to enhance the tourism industry in the country?

Madam Speaker: This is a constituency-based question. So, that is asking for too much from the hon. Minister. We will be taking him by surprise. However, if the hon. Member for Zambezi East is interested in knowing further, he can put in a specific question.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, has the Government done due diligence on the airport in terms of the frequency of flights and what will be the economic benefits of the same.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the answer to that question is that without a doubt, what we would like to do is open up the country and air travel is definitely one of those ingredients that do take development to areas. When you look at the state of our roads and the distance between the capital city; Lusaka and Mongu, for instance, you will see that it is obvious that the citizens in that part of the country have been crying for a more efficient and a faster way of being able to make it. When you look at the famous Kuomboka Ceremony,which attracts huge numbers of tourist, both local and foreign, it is evident that we urgently need to improve connectivity to that part of the country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

SUBORDINATE COURT CONSTRUCTION IN NYIMBA DISTRICT

101. Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba) asked the Minister of Justice:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a subordinate court in Nyimba District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma)(on behalf ofthe Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe)): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a subordinate court in Nyimba District. In the meantime, the local court project at Nyimba is at 80 per cent. This will temporally house the local court and subordinate court.

Madam Speaker, plans to construct the subordinate court will be implemented as soon as funds are made available by the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, as much as I appreciate that the contractor only moved on site two weeks ago. Surely, it is not yet at 80 per cent. Nevertheless, the good part is that the last time I asked a question about the local court, the contractor finally moved in early this month.

Madam Speaker, the population of Nyimba has doubled and the cases have doubled. Looking at the money the Government is spending to rent the building at the airstrip, yet it is saying the construction of the subordinate court will be undertaken when the money is made available, do you not think that it will be cheaper for the Government to build another court instead of spending huge sums of money renting that building

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, what the Government will do is conduct an analysis of the rentals that it pays vis-à-vis how much it would cost to build such a local court. Again, funds permitting, we should be able to come up with a decision. So, we will look at the hon. Member’s suggestion and see what we can do about it.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF LEVEL ONE HOSPITAL IN KATETE

102. MsPhiri (Milanzi) (on behalf ofMr P. Phiri (Mkaika)) asked the Minister of Health:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a level one hospital in Katete District; and
if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma) (on behalf ofthe Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo)): Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to construct a level one hospital in Katete District since the district is being serviced by St. Francis as level one hospital and a newly constructed Katete Boma Mini Hospital. So, we have two facilities there. One at level one and the other at mini hospital level, and this should suffice.

Madam Speaker, as stated in part (a)of the question, the Government has no plans of constructing a Level 1 Hospital in Katete District and so, part (b) falls off.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

MsPhiri: Madam Speaker, for a long time, Katete has not had a Ggovernment hospital and St. Francis Hospital, as you may be aware, is the only hospital and it is overwhelmed with the growing population.

Madam Speaker, the mini-hospital is not fully functional and as already alluded to, the population in Katete has grown. The people of Katete want a level one hospital to cater for their medical health needs.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, unfortunately, sometimes, wants cannot be actualised. We, in the health sector, think St. Francis Mission Hospital is a big enough hospital and caters for the population as at now. As for the additional mini hospital, yes, it must be not fully functional. What we shall endeavour to do is ensure that it is more or better functioning and funded than it is right now. If these two institutions are fully operational, they should be able to cater for the population.

Madam Speaker, yes, we do not have a government hospital in Katete, but what is important is not whether it is government or missionary owned. What is important is that the facility is there to provide services, and the Government has a hand in it because it does, together with the missionaries, fund it.

Madam Speaker, we think the two facilities that are there are adequate. Perhaps, all we need to do is beef up and be a bit more efficient to cater for the population that is there.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I think we canbear with the Acting Leader of Government Business on the responses he has given because he cannot say that the Government cannot plan for an area on account of the church providing health services. It is not unusual to find health facilities supported by the church and the Government also having its own.

Madam Speaker, given that the Government has the responsibility to take care of its people, would the hon. Minister reconsider the position he has given to this august House and the nation that he cannot plan for Katete to have a government district facility on account of St. Francis Mission Hospital which has been there for many years and is supported by the church?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, we cannot escape from the fact that the ultimate is not whetherthe hospital is owned by the Government, but that it services the population that is there. I think that is the objective. We have to look at the objective and the objective is simply that.

Madam Speaker, currently, the facility that is there in St. Francis Mission Hospital in Katete, given the population that is available right now, is adequate, especially when we consider the fact that a mini hospital has been added in the district. This was deliberately planned given the population that is there. This is why a mini hospital instead of a level one hospital was constructed. However, in saying that, we are not saying that we will completely not look at the possibility of constructing another hospital should the need arise. The need will arise as the population grows.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, Hon. Peter Phiri, through Hon. Melesiana Phiri, posed this question because St. Francis Mission Hospital and the mini hospital constructed in Katete because the district is already overburdened and overcrowded.

Madam Speaker, the population requires that the Government comes in to supplement the services that St. Francis Mission Hospital and the mini hospital have been providing.

Madam Speaker, when is Katete going to have a district hospital constructed by the Government of the Republic of Zambia to compliment the efforts of St. Francis Hospital and the mini hospital it has put in place.

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether the hon. Minister of Health will take up the question since she is now here.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I thank you. I apologise for coming late. It is on account that my house was broken into by thieves who got away with – That is why I was late. However, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: It is PF.

Interjections

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, firstly, successive Governments have had a memorandum of standing (MOU) with the Churches Health Association of Zambia (CHAZ) where they have worked together in the provision of healthcare.

Madam Speaker, talking about Katete, the Acting Leader of Government Business stated correctly that we have a hospital that is servicing the area; the mission hospital. So, as a matter of policy, we do not, as the Government, try to compete, but complement each other with the church. To show that complement, St. Francis Mission Hospital is funded by this Government, and successive Governments have done that, by the way, because that is the MOU.

Madam Speaker, therefore, the staff at the hospital is on the Government payroll. The commodities that they use are supported by the Government. Of course, the church has also other supporters in running health service delivery in this country.

Madam Speaker, you will agree with me that, in fact, it is safe for me to say that the health services provided by most church hospitals are of quality. So, as regards the issue of population, it is why the Government provided a mini hospital to supplement the services to the population there. Obviously, in the long run, the Government will consider, but for now, it does not have plans.

Madam Speaker, currently, it has plans to give district hospitals where there is nothing, either by CHAZ or the Government. So, for now, Katete is not a priority

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Sorry to hear about the break- in and, please, let us not accuse each other. I am sure the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security will attend to that issue.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Speaker, I appreciate that St. Francis Hospital is a grant aided hospital in the Eastern Province. I understood Hon. Phiri when he asked the question about Katete. This hospital does not service the people of Katete only. We should make this clear. It is a referral hospital in the Eastern Province. I think it is one of the few hospitals in the Eastern Province with specialised doctors. So, when hon. Members ask about St. Francis Hospital, they are not only asking on behalf of the people of Katete, but in the whole province. From St. Francis Hospital, you go to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), and there is no other hospital in the Eastern Province that can give you better treatment.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, mine is not a question, but a plea. We appreciate the funding to the hospital, but my request to the hon. Minister is that we should expand St. Francis Hospital. If money can be found, let us expand and equip St. Francis Hospital because it is the only referral hospital in the area. Chipata General Hospital and the new Kalindawalo Hospital do not have more qualified personnel than St. Francis Hospital. St. Francis Hospital is overwhelmed with referrals from other districts, so my plea is that we expand it.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Health, do you have any comment on that?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, first of all, that is a new issue altogether. It is not related to the actual question because the hon. Member is talking about expanding St. Francis Hospital. He only agrees with me that it is providing quality health services to the people of Katete and other areas, including those who get involved in accidents.

Madam Speaker, it is important for hon. Members to understand the Government’s policies. I do not think it is good for the Government at the moment to build hospitals in districts where the Church is providing assistance. For example, if a church has a hospital in an area, why should the Government also go and put up a similar facility next to it and say that it wants its own facility? We work as partners. This country has survived in providing health service delivery because of partners, and this goes even beyond the Church. Donors have made it possible for us to be where we are today. So, when hon. Members ask questions, they should help the Government and the people. Maybe, that is the question that should have been asked from the beginning and not the question that was asked initially.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, before I pose my follow-up question, I empathise with the hon. Minister of Health for the sad message of the break-in.

Madam Speaker, the spirit of the question was to find out whether the Government will put up a first level referral hospital in the area in question. Going by the answers provided by the acting Leader of Government Business in the House and the hon. Minister herself, the area is sufficiently covered by a first level referral hospital, although it is a mission hospital. In another answer, we heard that a mini-hospital has been constructed although according to the people asking the questions, it is not yet functioning to full capacity, but it has been indicated that it will be supported. My question on a point of clarification for the hon. Minister of Health is: Can she indicate when the mini-hospital will be fully functional, to reduce the pressure which is currently at the first level referral mission hospital?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. I want to state that there are a number of mini-hospitals that were recently completed. The Government plans to allocate part of the over 12,000 newly recruited health staff to those hospitals that are now complete, but require to be commissioned, and that process has started. The information I have is that most hospitalsin the Eastern Province that have been completed have been given staff, and I hope they will start operatingbefore the end of this year, unless there is something else that I do not know. I also hope the mini-hospitals that have been completed will be commissioned before the end of this year. Management at those hospitals do not need to wait for me as Minister to commission them. I cannot be everywhere, and that is why there are District Commissioners (DCs), Provincial hon. Ministers and mayors. Those can officiate the commissioning of those hospitals, and they do not have to wait for the hon. Minister to do that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will allow two more questions. I had actually closed this segment, but the hon. Member for Mkushi South came in late. So, the hon. Member for Kaumbwe will be followed by the hon. Member for Mkushi South.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, indeed, St. Francis Hospital is serving not only the people in Katete, but also Kaumbwe, Petauke Central and Nyimba, and I believe it has specialised equipment. I compliment the Government for building the mini-hospital and the people of Kaumbwe’s appeal is that it needs to be supplemented with medical diagnostic equipment similar to what is at St. Francis Hospital. This will enable the mini-hospital to serve the people that St. Francis Hospital has been serving. It is not really a question, but I just urge the Government to supplement the mini-hospital with medical equipment similar to what is at St. Francis Hospital.

Madam Speaker: Since it is not a question, the hon. Member for Mkushi South will ask his question and then the hon. Minister will wrap up in response to the two interventions.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has indicated that putting up a district hospital in Katete is not a priority, is she able to give us the project plan of how the new district hospitals will be constructed, by order of priority?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank both hon. Members for those statements. The first one was a comment and the last one was a question.

Madam Speaker, I want to state that, first and foremost, we do not have any plans to construct a district hospital in Katete, not in the near future; not this year and not next year. Maybe, the construction of the hospital will be done later on, but not in the next three years. We plan to continue supporting St. Francis Hospital and we want to assist it with more staff. We also want to assist it with more diagnostic equipment, so that it can continue giving a good standard of health service to the people in the area. Currently, the hospital provides levels one, two and three health services. However, we want it to improve its standards when it comes to level three health services. To that effect, we will not construct another hospital in the area, at least not in the next three years. So, according to our plans for 2021, 2022 and 2023, there is no plan for constructing a hospital in Katete.

Madam Speaker, regarding the mini-hospital that has been constructed, we will with time make improvements. As you may know, a policy has been adopted of ensuring that all facilities, both urban and rural that may not have any maternity wings, are given one. We will be adding maternity wings to all the health facilities throughout the country. That is one of our plans and it has already started being implemented in a number of areas as I speak. We hope,by the end of 2023 going into 2024, hon. Members of Parliament would have managed to ensure that there is a maternity wing at every health facility in the country, so that the high maternal mortality rates that the country has been experiencing over a decade now can be brought down to acceptable levels.

Madam Speaker, as regards the lists, I will not be able, of the cuff, to give a list of which districts but hopefully, if he puts in a question, we will be able to give the list. Note that we are following a principle of equity in the manner we are going to do the construction. We want to ensure that all the ten provinces through the 116 districts of Zambia have a district hospital. If you are in a district where there is no district health facility either from the Government or the church, then you must know that you are topping the list by being among the first ten or twenty.However, if you have something, maybe you may not get a health facility. We will not get to a place where the churches are already working because we are working as one. The difference is that this is a mission hospital and the other is a Government hospital. For all intents and purposes, I can safely say we are working as one because we are serving the same people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

RESUSCITATION OF MAGOYE RESEARCH INSTITUTE AND MAGOYE COTTON DEVELOPMENT TRUST

103. Mr Malambo (Magoye)asked the Minister of Agriculture:

whether the Government has any plans to resuscitate the following institutions in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency:

Magoye Research Institute; and
Magoye Cotton Development Trust; and
if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, Magoye Research Institute and Cotton Development Trust (CDT) are one and the same institute except that the Cotton Development Trust is the name currently used.

The Government is resuscitating the operations of the CDT in the following ways:

The Cotton Trust through the Cotton Board has paid US$35,500 membership to the International Cotton Advisory Committee. This will help improve collaboration between the Cotton Development Trust and the International Cotton Advisory Committee in research and capacity building;
the Cotton Development Trust has also been mapped as a seed zone by the Seed Control and Certification Institute (SCCI). The measure will help in theinstitute producing improved seed varieties that are climate smart and this will result in farmers having improved yields;
theTrust has also started producing and testing bio-pesticides. These bio-pesticides help to eliminate worms in plants and are cheaper than ordinary chemicals; and
the Government has recommenced provision of a grant to theinstitute for its operations. The grant for this year, 2022, is K2,740,000.

Madam Speaker, as in (a) above, plans are underway to resuscitate the Cotton Development Trust.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the answer given by the hon. Minister of Agriculture. Is the hon. Minister aware that the Cotton Development Trust in Magoye has not had a board for, I think, four years now? Does he have plans to constitute a board as soon as possible?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question from the hon. Member. Yes, I am very aware. The hon. Member will be happy to note that amongst some of the plans that are in place for Magoye, constituting of the board is one of them. In fact, we have already received submissions from the relevant stakeholders. There is a circulation currently for those board members to be looked at by necessary Government bodies that vet or qualify such members.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, I wantto find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture if there are any other agricultural institutions, just like Magoye Research Centre, that he has lined up for resuscitation. For instance, in Kasenengwa we have Kalichelo and I am sure thereare many more others.

Madam Speaker: Looking at the question, it was more specific to Magoye. I believe the hon. Minister will be taken by surprise with that question. So, the hon. Member for Kasenengwa can put in a specific question if he wants to hear something relating to his constituency.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, I listened to what the hon. Minister just said on the funds that have been spent so far on the same. How soon does the hon. Minister expect this industry or factory to be operational looking at the amounts that have been spent so far?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Namwala. I do not know whether I heard him correctly. Did you refer to it as a factory?

Mr Mapani: A centre of institution or whatever it is.

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, Magoye is a research institute. Meaning, it is there to help in producing cotton seed to enhance the production of cotton seed, research in cotton, seed multiplication, farmer training and technology. The hon. Member might want to know that in 2011/2012, Zambia produced about 250 million kilogrammes of cotton which unfortunately depreciated such that last year, Zambia produced 25 million kilogrammes of cotton because there was no attention to issues like that in Magoye and other related issues like marketing and how we handle the farmers,etcetera. So, theGovernment is putting in a lot of effort into this institution because cotton is one crop that grows very well but we lacked in providing extension services to the farmers, forgot how to market and neglected the payment to the Cotton International Centre, where we get a lot of research and seed technologies and marketing help. What we want to do is to bring back the cotton industry in Zambia to where it was. Surely, to produce 25million compared to 250million is very unhealthy for to our country. So, we will do a lot. This K2.7 million is just a start. We are going to be putting in more so that the institute can be what it was before. I know that is where the hon. Member for Magoye is coming from by asking this question because he was part of that establishment and he knows exactly how good it can promote cotton production in the country.

Madam Speaker, this is a serious issue and I am very grateful for that question so that Zambia and the hon. Members here can know how we neglected the cotton industry by letting it slide down to almost nothing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture has informed the nation that US$35,000 has been or is going to be paid in membership fees to an external body and one of the reasons is to allow for research to be advanced. Is the hon. Minister confirming that we do not have local expertise for the institute to develop its own seed without having to seek help from other countries?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the money was paid to the International Cotton Advisory Committee in Research and Capacity Building. So, when you subscribe to this body, you are not only helped in technical expertise, but you will also learn, from other countries, about new cotton varieties and also exchange ideas, especially regarding marketing of the cotton which we did very badly. So, it is a very vital institution. We have got sufficient technology in Zambia to develop seed, and Magoye is one such place where varieties are being developed. The African Centre for Crop Improvement (ACCI) and the Zambia Agricultural Research Institute (ZARI)are some of the places where we are developing new seed varieties.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Malambo: Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister plan to visit this facility in Magoye any time soon?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, yes, I do have plans to visit the facility. In fact, I was speaking to the principal of this college this morning and we arranged that I visit him and his group so I can encourage them. There are more than eighty members of staff there. They employ more than 300 casual workers annually. It is a very vital installation for Zambia. I think I would love to go there with the hon. Member so that together, we can see how we can improve this institution.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

–––––––

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL, 2021

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

CLAUSE 2 – (Amendment of Section 2)

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 3, in line 10 by the insertion of the words “in relation to goods liable to excise duty or surtax, other than imported goods” immediately after the word “manufacturer”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13and 14ordered to stand part of the Bill.

FIRST SCHEDULE

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to move to move an amendment in the First Schedule, on page 7 (a) after line 12by the insertion of the following new item immediately after item 1:Chapter 26 is amended by the deletion of subheading 2608.00.00 and the substitution therefor of the following:

HS Codes	Description of Goods	Statistical Unit of Quantity	Customs Duty Rate
26.08	Zinc ores and concentrates.
	Zinc Ores
2608.00.11	Zincite, zinc oxide	tonne	5%
2608.00.19	Other Zinc ores	tonne	5%
	Zinc concentrate
2608.00.21	Zincite, zinc oxide	tonne	5%
2608.00.29	Other Zinc concentrates	tonne	5%; and

(b) in lines 13 to 34, by the renumbering of items 2,3,4,5, and 6 as items 3,4,5,6 and 7, respectively.

Amendment agreed to. First schedule as amended accordingly.

First schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to move to move that the second scheduleIn the Second Scheduleon page 8, in lines 16 to 35by the deletion of paragraph (c) and the substitution therefor of the following: on page 9, before line 1by the insertion of the following new paragraph:

Heading	Description of Goods	Harmonised Commodity Description and Coding System Heading	Statistical Unit of Quantity	Duty Rate
12	(1) Floor coverings of plastics, whether or not self-adhesive, in rolls or in the form of tiles; wall or ceiling coverings of plastics, as defined in Note 9 to this Chapter	3918	kg	15%
	(2) Carrier bags for shopping with or without handles	3923.21.91	Kg	30%
	(3) Carrier bags for shopping with or without handles	3923.29.91	Kg	30%
	(4) Office or school supplies	3926.10.00	kg	15%
	(5) Articles and Clothing accessories, not elsewhere specified, for use in the textile industry.	3926.20.10	kg	15%
	(6) Other	3926.20.90	kg	15%
	(7) Fittings for furniture, coachwork or the like	3926.30.00	kg	15%
	(8) Statuettes and other ornamental articles	3926.40.00	kg	15%
	(9) Other	3926.90.99	kg	15%; and

(d) by the insertion of the following new heading immediately after heading 12:.

Amendment agreed to. Second schedule amended accordingly.

Second schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I beg to move to move an amendment in the Fourth Schedule, on pages 10 and 11 by the deletion of Appendix III and the substitution therefor of the following:

APPENDIX III

(Section 13)

FOURTH SCHEDULE

(Section 77)

1. The Fourth Schedule is amended in Part I –

in the surtax rate column opposite subheadings 0201.30.00, 0202.30.00, 0204.23.00 and 0204.43.00, by the deletion of the figure “5%” and the substitution therefor of the figure “10%”; and

by the insertion of the following goods in the appropriate places:

PART I

SURTAX TARIFF ON IMPORTED GOODS GENERALLY

HS Code	Description of Goods	Surtax Rate
2701.11.00	Anthracite	5%
2701.12.00	Bituminous coal	5%
2701.19.00	Other coal	5%
2701.20.00	Briquettes, ovoids and similar solid fuels manufactured from coal	5%
3917.21.10	Garden hose of an internal diameter not exceeding 30.00mm	5%
3917.22.10	Garden hose of an internal diameter not exceeding 30.00mm	5%
3917.23.10	Garden hose of an internal diameter not exceeding 30.00mm	5%
3917.23.20	Rigid, of an internal diameter not exceeding 30.00mm	5%
3917.29.10	Garden hose of an internal diameter not exceeding 30.00mm	5%
3917.31.10	Garden hose of an internal diameter not exceeding 30.00mm	5%
3917.32.10	Garden hose of an internal diameter not exceeding 30.00mm	5%
6907.21.00	Flags and paving, hearth or wall tiles, other than those of subheadings 6907.30 and 6907.40 of a water absorption coefficient by weight not exceeding 0.5%	20%
6907.22.00	Flags and paving, hearth or wall tiles, other than those of subheadings 6907.30 and 6907.40 of a water absorption coefficient by weight exceeding 0.5% but not exceeding 10%	20%
6907.23.00	Flags and paving, hearth or wall tiles, other than those of subheadings 6907.30 and 6907.40 of a water absorption coefficient by weight exceeding 10%	20%
6907.30.00	Mosaic cubes and the like, other than those of subheading 6907.40	20%
6907.40.00	Finishing ceramics	20%
6907.90.00	Other	20%
8716.39.00	Other	10%; and

(b) by the deletion of Part II (A) and the substitution therefor of the following:

PART II

SURTAX TARIFF ON MOTOR VEHICLE EMISSIONS

Description of Goods	HS Tariff item under which classified	Statistical unit of quantity	Surtax Rate Per Quarter
Carbon emissions from vehicles of headings: (1) EX.87.01 Tractors (Mechanical horses & similar tractive units) (2) 8702, 8703 and 8704 excluding emissions from vehicles propelled by non-pollutant energy sources, ambulances and prison vans; and	EX.87.01 702, 8703 and 8704	No. No.	Engine Capacity	Unit Tax (Fee units)
			Motor Cycles	616
			0-1500cc	616
			1501-2000cc	1232
			2001-3000cc	1760
			3001cc and above	2420

(b) After page 11by the insertion of the following new Appendix immediately after Appendix III:

APPENDIX IV

(Section 15)

Ninth Schedule

(Section 72A)

The Ninth Schedule is amended in Chapter 26 by the deletion of subheading 2608.00.00 and the substitution therefor of the following:

HS Codes Description of Goods Statistical Unit of Quantity Export Duty Rate

26.08 Zinc ores and concentrates.

--- Zinc Ores

2608.00.11 ---- Zincite, zinc oxide tonne 10%

2608.00.19 ---- Other Zinc ores tonne 10%

--- Zinc Concentrates

2608.00.21 ---- Zincite, zinc oxide tonne free

2608.00.2 Other Zin Amendment agreed tonne free

Amendment agreed to. Fourth schedule as amended accordingly.

Fourth schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2022.

Report Stage on Wednesday, 14^th December, 2022.

THIRD READING

THE PENAL CODE (Amendment) BILL, 2022

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, as much as we, the Opposition, have no objection, since we made our position very clear on Bill that we would have loved the hon. Minister of Justice to start by dealing with Part III of the Constitution on which these amendments are anchored, we want the Executive to be organised so that when such matters come on the Floor, we have substantive hon. Ministers present. Even in their absence, they do not have to put you in this position whereyou are made to look around for who is going to take up portfolio functions of an hon. Minister who is absent from the august House. We need to be systematic and neat in the way we transact Business in this august House.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, we want to support you.As leaders in the House, we want your work to flow without agony. For instance, this morning, we saw the hon. Minister of Health comein late and to only join in the answering of questions in the process. It should not be like that. We need to have this House respected. We say that the Business of the House takes precedence.

Madam Speaker, we want your work to flow. We do not want you to agonise when you sit in the Chair as to who is going to take up a role and at what point. However, we have no objection to the Penal Code (Amendment) Bill.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I am sure the Executive has taken note of those comments.

The following Bills were read the third time and passed.

The Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Bill, 2022

The Penal Code (Amendment) Bill, 2022

The Pensions Scheme Regulation (Amendment) Bill, 2022

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 86 – (Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock– K997, 894,943)

(Consideration resumed)

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, before we commence consideration of Heads of Expenditure for the provinces, I wish to guide the Committee that following the suspension of Standing Orders 25 and 27, and the requirement to conclude Business on the Order Paper before adjourning, the Head of Expenditure for the provinces will proceed as follows:

one policy statement for all the provinces will be given by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House;
three Members from each of the provinces appearing on the Order Paper will debate their provincial Heads; and
the appropriate provincial hon. Minister will, thereafter, respond to issues raised on the provincial Vote. This will mark the end of the Business of the day; and
when all provincial Heads of Expenditure have been debated, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House will wind up the debate. Thereafter, the Committee of Supply will commence consideration of individual Heads of Expenditure concurrently.

I thank you.

MrMichelo (Bweengwa):Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me time, again, to continue debating Vote 86 – Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock.

Mr Chairperson, before we adjourned on Friday, I was talking about the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA). There is a problem at the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, especially in the Department of Veterinary Services, and the biggest problem is that it is hard forveterinarians to import drugs for animals. Right now, there are so many people from the Ministry of Health on the ZAMRA Board and only one person represents the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. However, veterinarians find it hard to import drugs for animals and it is expensive for them to manage their businesses. They even charge in dollars, which is not right.

Mr Chairperson, I think ZAMRA must be separated. One part must just deal with human medicines and the other one with medicines for animals. So, we must separate this body. If we do not do that, we will continue facing difficulties in finding drugs. If we have to allocate more money to the ministry to separate this body, we will have to do that as soon as possible so that it can look after the livestock sector very well.

Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about the issue of Balmoral. When the majority of farmers take samples there, it takes several days for the results to come out. We are asking the hon. Minister and his Permanent Secretary (PS) to check on the officers who work at Balmoral so that the farmers can be given the results on time. We also request the hon. Minister to construct laboratories in provinces so that each province can have its own laboratory, and farmers can transact business in a fluent manner.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the mechanically deboned meat (MDM), which the people dealing in meat products are importing on a daily basis. They are using meat which is not safe for human consumption to make sausages. The majority of people making sausages here in Lusaka are using MDM from outside the country. So, we request the hon. Minister to work with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to put in place measures at the borders so that we can regulate the importation of MDM.

Mr Chairperson, farmers are charged the escort fee every time they want to transport animals. That is something new, and we ask that this fee be abolished.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about the dry season strategy. The farmers are facing a number of challenges, especially with regard to maize bran. We are exporting a lot of maize bran when our farmers are facing huge challenges. It is difficult to access maize bran, and it is very expensive when it is found. Many a times, maize bran is not found in this country, and I request the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock to work with the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry to regulate its exportation. We have to work hard to ensure that is done, and we should ban the exportation of maize from May to the end of November so that we can first of all satisfy our farmers before we export the maize bran. The people in the dairy business are facing huge challenges. Their animals lose a lot of energy during the dry season and the production of milk in in a day reduces because of the lack of the required feed.

Mr Chairperson, I request the hon. Minister to allocate money to mechanisation so that the farmers are able to make silage and hay. Further, the farmers should be trained so that they pay extra attention to the speed at which animals eat the silage so it does not go bad. When we are making the feed for a dairy cow, we include what are called total digestible nutrients (TDN). TDNs are very important for the dairy cows.

Mr Chairperson, we should also invest money in cattle judgment so that the farmers are trained on how to judge cattle. Farmers must be able to practice manure scoring. The moment they enter a crawl, even if they do not find animals there, they must tell after seeing the dung whether the animals are fed good quality feed.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Chairperson, allow me to start by recognising that the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is anchored on economic transformation and job creation, which the people of Chilubi agree with, because it is one of the ministries that can be a growth window.

Having said that, Mr Chairperson, I want to indicate that the ministry has gotten two clusters from the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), namely cluster two, which is enhanced citizen participation in the economy, and cluster three, which is a competitive private sector.

Mr Chairperson, we have sung the song of our potential, especially of our water bodies. Currently, Zambia boasts of having more than 45 per cent of water in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region. However, if we take stock of how much fish we are producing from the natural bodies and fisheries, we are not producing enough. Zambia is not among the five top countries that are producing fish, and it is even beaten by a country like Namibia, which does not have its potential. Some countries that do not have water bodies produce as much as 5.5 million metric tonnes of fish, when we just produce slightly above 100,000 metric tonnes.

Mr Chairperson, the legal and policy framework on the way we manage, especially the fisheries sub-sector, leaves much to be desired. The hon. Minister will forgive me, but this brings me to the ban on the Niloticus Tilapia, which according to other countries is a very profitable species that, according to cluster outcome No.2, can enhance citizenry participation in the economy. However, the fisheries sub-sector is locked and just certain people have ventured into it. If I remember very well, I think there are eleven fisheries of which five are in the Congo Basin and seven are in the Zambezi Basin. Our standing, especially given our potential, does not make for a very pleasing picture.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has highlighted five programmes on which the 2023 Budget is anchored on, namely livestock production and productivity improvement, fisheries production and productivity improvement, animal health services, technical services, and management.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to still dance around fisheries production and productivity because I am fisherman and I come from where fish is supposed to be harvested.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Fube: Yes, I am a fisherman.

Mr Chairperson, when we look at this issue, first of all, we need to address water bodies and how we can manage them. I know that it may not be completely under the ambit of the Ministry of Fisheries and livestock, but I think it works in tandem with other ministries. The method of fishing that we are using is not enough to have a fish ban. If we want to preserve fish so that it can multiply thereafter, we have to think of the kind of fishing methods are we going to use. That is very key and we need to put a premium on that arrangement.

Mr Chairperson, having said that, let me also say that for us to grow the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, we need to connect it to the farming of crops like maize, soya beans and sunflower. When we look at that, as I have already indicated, there must be some inter-ministerial arrangements that are supposed to be a growth window to supplement the economy using the 8NDP. As things stand, we find that even when we distribute legumes through the Ministry Development and Social Services, the Ministry of Agriculture and many other avenues, the utilisation of legumes by our farmers –

Sir, I am come from a rural area where I monitor the utilisation of legumes especially soya beans. It is under utilised yet we see that this does not only give impetus to stock feed so that we increase it. We know that if we are to cry about hunger as human beings, especially about maize, which is our staple food, animals will equally be affected. This will mean that along the way, the price of meat will increase, the price of fish will increase and many things will be affected. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister to monitor, particularly, how maize fits into the fisheries sub-sector so that at the end of the day, we should not just be talking about figures, but scoring. Currently, when we talk about venturing into fish farming, the greatest cost happens to be fish feed and that is what is discouraging people to not going into fish farming. If we make sure that the legumes and maize are grown under the Famer Input Support Programme (FISP) and the fertiliser that is comes through the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services and many other things are utilised properly, we will have raw material to utilise when making feed.

Mr Chairperson, as I support the budget which has been increased, allow me to end my debate on animal health services. On the nature of animal health services,there is need –

Sir, I have noticed that under the Ministry of Agriculture, there is an increment in the number of extension officers. There is need that extension officers are specifically from the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock and not the Ministry of Agriculture, where they just monitor the fish ban. The number of extension officers must increase so that even when we talk about selling goatsin the yawning market of the Arab World, we would be selling healthy goat.

Mr Chairperson, as we support the budget, the people of Chilubi would like to rest their suitcase on this note.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the space, on behalf of the people of Kalabo Central, to add a word in support of the Vote.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is a very important ministry in this Republic especially in some areas, namely the Western Province, the Southern Province and the Luapula Province. This is where you find many water bodies and enhanced grazing land. I have a belief that through the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, poverty levels in rural areas can be gotten rid of.

Mr Chairperson, everything happens naturally. All human beings and all the things being are natural and so, change is also natural. It could for good or bad. However, in this aspect, I would like to look at the change which took place last year as a good one. Why do I say so? This Ministry was in existence, but not with enhanced resource allocation. I will give an example of Kalabo. When you look at the number of working staff such as veterinary officers vis-à-vis the camps they are supposed to man, many of the camps had no officers. This means that the cattle farmers were no being attended to. There was no interaction with cattle farmers and so, cattle farmers were not aware of some methods on how to keep cattle and other livestock. Looking at the budget, there are allocations for the recruitment of staff. So, I earnestly urge the ministry to consider, very much, the staff that interacts much with the farmers so that they give relevant education and knowledge to the farmers so that they can take care and look after the animals.

Mr Chairperson there is also another component I would not want to ignore. This is the major killer disease of cattle in the Western Province and other places in the country. This disease is called Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP). This is a killer disease and it is an enhancer of poverty because it gets rid of all the stock and leaves people without creating poverty.

Mr Chairperson, I also believe that this disease can be eradicated if there is political will. Looking at the budget, there is an increase in the funds allocated for disease control. I am urging the hon. Minister to eradicate the killer disease called the CBPP. Let us make a difference and let the New Dawn Government create a difference so that the coming of the New Dawn Administration should give hope to the people and this hope should be practical in the sense that the cattle farmers should see the difference that there is a new Government which is looking into the welfare of their animals.

Sir, if other countries, where there are Zambians, have gotten rid of this disease, why should the Zambian Government or the Zambian community fail?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSONS OF COMMITTEESin the

Chair]

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was talking about CBPP and its relationship to the livelihood of the people. I am sure that this disease can be gotten rid of so that people’s livelihood can improve. Other countries have done it, and so, Zambia cannot be an exception.

Mr Chairperson, fisheries itself is another source of livelihood. However, the nature of fishing methods has contributed to the depletion of fish stocks in our rivers, rendering the rivers mere water bodies. So, it is important also, like I have seen in the Budget, that the development of aquaculture be enhanced in order to replenish the fish stocks which are almost getting depleted. Therefore, fishing is a major source of livelihood.

Mr Chairperson, you can imagine people are able to transport the bubble fish to Kasumbalesa where it fetches very good amounts of money. So, if there was enhancement in aquaculture so that people can venture into that particular type of fish, I am sure it would uplift the livelihood of the people, especially in areas where some of us come from.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I encourage the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries to have a different work culture and make a difference in terms of where we are coming from.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to add two or three sentences to this very important debate on the Motion which is on the Floor of this House.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries is one of the very important ministries. As such, I support the budget or the amount that has been allocated for 2023.

Sir, the mandate of the ministry is quite clear. I am happy that the strategy that the ministry has spelled out on how it intends to meet its objective is plus. Speaking on behalf of the people in my constituency, Namwala is one of the best beef producing constituencies in this country. As such, we expect that the amount that has been allocated will be put to good use and ensure that we increase the numbers of livestock in our constituencies.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Namwala are not asking for much. They are asking the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock to make sure that the insemination centres that were left by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government be completed, if possible, so that the people of Namwala can start using them.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Namwala are also asking for dip tanks. There is no way we can talk about increasing the numbers of cattle when we do not have dip tanks. Dip tanks are quite important for the people of Namwala. We hope that with this budget, we are going to see new dip tanks. Of course, there is nothing one can point at as regards the old dip tanks because there is nothing. We believe that when the hon. Minister indicated early this year, that he was going to take stock or an inventory of what is in the constituency, he did just that. So, he should come up with a statement that we will all listen to on what his findings were. Currently, the people of Namwala need dip tanks.

Mr Chairperson, regarding the dams, during the hot season or summer, it is quite difficult for our animals to get water or to continue producing milk because we do not have water. Usually, our animals starve more especially from June to December. It is our hope that the ministry will think of constructing dams so that water can always be available throughout the year.

Mr Chairperson, as regards regular vaccines, we expect the veterinary department to pay more attention to our constituency so that animal diseases in Namwala and elsewhere can be attended to reasonably so that our animals can be protected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Katakwe: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, I rise in accordance with our Standing Orders. Hon. Kapyanga just crossed the Floor between the Presiding Officer and the debater.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, you are raising a point of order pursuant to which Standing Order? You did not cite the Standing Order you rose on.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, Standing Order 72.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson:Which Standing Order?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, cite the Standing Order you feel has been breached.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, Standing Order –

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, why are you debating whilst seated?

Hon. Member, cite the Standing Order that has been breached.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, when an hon. Member is debating, no one should cross the Floor.

Rev. Katuta: Cite the Standing Order.

Mr Katakwe: Mr Chairperson, when an hon. Member is debating, no one should cross the Floor between the presiding officer and that hon. Member. Is Hon. Kapyanga in order to cross the Floor between you, the presiding officer, and the hon. Member debating?

I seek your ruling.

I thank you, Sir.

Interjections

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, as much as you are unable to cite the Standing Order, it is not in order for an hon. Member to cross the Floor. It is not allowed.

Interjections

The Deputy Chairperson:Next time, Hon. Dr Katakwe, when you observe that a Standing Order has been breached, you should be able to cite it.

Hon. Mapani, you can continue.

Mr Mapani: Mr Chairperson, as I was saying, there are a few, but very important things the people of Namwala are expecting to receive from this 2023 Budget that has been allocated to the ministry. We were talking about the issue of insemination centres, dip tanks, dams and regular vaccines.

Mr Chairperson, James Wool once said, “Better to put more on the already existing, of course, as we consider upgrading those who are admiring or are yet to be where others are.”

This ministry is important. The people of Namwala only depend on livestock. So, I will be very happy and the people of Namwala will be very grateful to see the hon. Minister put a lot of hustle in this ministry. We are delighted that the hon. Minister,from the time he was appointed, has been to Namwala, at least, twice, and, to us, this is very important. Before, we never used to see anyone who was responsible for this ministry visit Namwala. Going forward, I just want to urge the hon. Minister, next time he visits Namwala, to not leave me behind because I want to show him what the people of Namwala are looking for and wishing to get from him.

Mr Chairperson, I submit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Chairperson, let me place on record that the people of Kanchibiya do support this Vote. We attach a lot of importance to matters of livestock and fisheries.

Mr Chairperson, we wish to make a clarion call in our submission to the ministry to unlock this sector in order to transform rural economies. In rural areas, we are at a point where we are seated with so much potential in relation to livestock and fisheries. However, this sector is still closed up due to rigidity in terms of policy. The thinking of twenty years ago still remains the thinking of today. We cannot change and transform ourselves and attain the goals we have set for ourselves, as a country, with the same mentality that created the same problems.

Mr Chairperson, we are standing at a point where this country’s fish deficit is about 87,000 metric tonnes, annually.

Mr Chairperson, fifty-eight years after independence, are we not ashamed, as a country, that we can remain a net importer even when our National Trade Policy tells us that we must become the net exporter?

Mr Chairperson, when we refer to the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), the vision 2030 and so many polices that are speaking to, we are reminded of one thing; there is every need to change and provoke the status quo.

Mr Chairperson, there is a lot fish,as we speak, being imported from China, Namibia, Zimbabwe and so on and so forth. Zambia just becomes a transit market. Much of this fish is finding its way into the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) for the simple reason that we have allowed ourselves to put aside or place less premiums on small-scale farmers and allow them to invest in breeds that make no economic sense. For example, look at the Africa Development Bank (AfDB) loans that we talk about. We give them to our smallholder fish farmers, yet we tell them that they can only grow the local tilapia. They grow the local tilapia, but, if, today, we do an inventory, we will find that the majority of those got these loans have defaulted. That is supposed to be bad debt which is supposed to be cancelled and investigated because it is not prudent application of loans, especially that at one point or other, we will be required to repay these funds to the AfDB.

Mr Chairperson, I represent a constituency with vast water bodies. The only way we are going to unlock this place and the economies in our areas, is when we can allow our farmers to invest in improved breeds of fish. We have seen best practices in countries like Nigeria, Egypt and India. They are getting into the Niloticus Tilapia. We still hold on to the same frameworks and thinking we held on to twenty years ago, as a country. It is said that the only constant in life is change. We cannot be scared of change.

Mr Chairperson, if your friends are doing it, also venture into it. Exploit new technologies of growing Niloticus Tilapia and let us grow this economy so that Zambia becomes a net exporter of fish. The DRC and Rwanda are yearning for our fish, but these markets are not static. They will not wait for us. Nigeria, Egypt and India will jump in and, by the time we will be waking up to smell the coffee, it will be too late for us, as a country.

Mr Chairperson, my appeal to my good brother, the hon. Minister, is to raise the bar. For example, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has said that it will produce 3 million metric tonnes of copper over a period of time. We want to have those numbers from the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. How much fish should we be producing in the next five to ten years, and what are we doing to ensure that we get to those levels? How do we unlock rural areas like Kanchibiya?

Mr Chairperson, there is every need for us to look at what works for our neighbours. Let us look at Botswana and Namibia. What did they do with the livestock sector in those areas? My good brother from Namwala debated. I believe that if someone went into Namwala, today, looking for a local breed or a traditional cow, one may not even find it because of the improved breed. That is what we need if we are going to exploit the potential and opportunities, domestically and internationally. Why are we not going for improved breeds and supporting them by putting around and across the country artificial insemination centres to improve the quality of beef being produced?

Mr Chairperson, best practices are there in Botswana and Namibia.We do not have to look very far. As a matter of fact, we are being led by a President who is a champion in this sector. We expect the livestock and fisheries sector to perform even better.

Mr Chairperson, in 2019, the previous regime facilitated the increase in aquaculture production from 5,000 metric tonnes to 38,000 metric tonnes. However, we must do more. The challenge the ministry has in terms of livestock and agriculture production is how to raise the numbers. We cannot raise the numbers whilst giving the small holder farmers a raw deal.

Mr Chairperson, in each sector where production has improved, be it farming, manufacturing and so on and so forth, particular emphasis has been paid to the small-scale players in the industry. Today, if we did a census, we would find that the small holder farmers are crying foul. Why is it so? It is because they were given loans by the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), but those loans were not favourable. A number of them have defaulted, and my appeal to the ministry is that those loans must be cancelled. Those loans are bad debt because we allowed the people to invest in non-profitable varieties.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to make a clarion call, again, and my plea is that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should prioritise funding forresearch for this ministry. The amount of funding for research given to this ministry or the budget for research leaves much to be desired. We can never get where we must get as a nation without prioritising research and development, and the same applies to ministries like the Ministry of Agriculture. Our call, as the people of Kanchibiya, is that this ministry deserves more attention and allocation. Therefore, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should increase the allocation for this ministry, especially with regard to research.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Mr Chairperson, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mandevu to support this important budget for Vote 86. In joining my hon. Colleagues who have debated, I would like to add a word on one or two areas.

Mr Chairperson, I believe this ministry is very important and it can change the economic outlook of our nation, if we get the policies right. Its mandate is to facilitate the development and management of a sustainable and viable fisheries sector and livestock sector to ensure national and household food security. However, what is happening right now whereby the ministry has allowed the importation of mechanically deboned meats (MDMs) is killing the livestock industry and the fisheries industry. MDMs are being produced in Brazil and other countries at a very low cost compared to the cost of producing them in the livestock and poultry industry here in Zambia. What does this do? We are killing our own industry because meat processors are shunning the locally produced products and are opting to buy the cheap products that we are importing.

Mr Chairperson, in this regard, my question to the hon. Minister is: What are we doing? I am one of the farmers in this country. You produce chickens at a cost of K60 each, but you find the market flooded with many chickens, and that forces you to reduce the selling price. So, you sell the chickens at a lower cost than the production cost, and this is killing all the farmers in this country. The Government has allowed the importation of MDMs, and this supports the economies of other countries. MDMs are produced in mass in Brazil, meaning that we are creating employment elsewhere, instead of creating employment here in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, let us look at our production factors, such as the cost of electricity. We have our own problems, and we need to look at the cost of energy. We need policies that will support and shield the farmers in Zambia. So, I urge the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock to ban the importation of MDMs and to also create policies to support our own farmers in the livestock industry.

Mr Chairperson, we need to deliberately give loans to the players in the livestock industry to enable them buy machines for deboning meats. When they debone meats locally, they will mop up all the products that are locally produced. That way, the farmers will be encouraged to produce more and they will even get more loans and empowerment from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). When they produce more, they will create more employment for our brothers and sisters out there and they will have more disposable income. This will benefit our economy.

Mr Chairperson, the other thing is that we are losing a lot of revenue at our borders by allowing the importation of fish under the pretext that it is going to our neighbouring countries, yet it goes on our market. So, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock and other Government agencies like the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) need to be alert, so that the trucks that offload fish and other products on our market should pay taxes.

Lastly, Mr Chairperson, as the hon. Minister is in discussions with his hon. Colleagues in Cabinet, he needs to raise a red flag on the exportation of maize. We are currently exporting maize in raw form and very soon we might have a problem. As you can see, the rain pattern in Zambia is not so good due to climate change and the delivery of farming inputs is not as expected. We may have a crisis next year and what will this do? It will cause prices of commodities to go up. So, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock needs to liaise with the Ministry of Agriculture to make sure that we do not over export maize. The prices of feed need to be contained, so that we encourage local production by our own Zambian farmers.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support the budget.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: The next debater will be Mr Malambo and then Ms Katuta, the Independent hon. Member. Then the hon. Minister will wind up debate.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving the people of Magoye an opportunity to add their voice to the debate on this very important Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I want to begin by saying that Magoye Constituency is an agriculture-oriented constituency, and the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock visited us in Magoye. He appreciated what we have and he saw for himself what is required in Magoye Constituency.

Mr Chairperson, the challenges that the farmers are facing are predominantly related to animal disease control. If we control animal diseases, we shall have quality products and we will be able to export beef elsewhere.

Mr Chairperson, another challenge that farmers face is the lack of land on title. In many instances, farmers are faced with this challenge because much of the land is traditional. If they accessed land on title, they would be able to access finance, and be able to control animal diseases and increase the herds.

Mr Chairperson, the other challenge the farmers are facing is the lack of a market. The market price is predetermined by the people whom they sell the animals to. A farmer has no opportunity of determining the price, but the one buying the animal is the one who determines the price. So, the farmers need to have access to proper market to ensure that they get the true value of their animals.

Mr Chairperson, the other challenge that farmers face is the lack of credit facilities. I know that some time back, previous Governments provided credit facilities, but they were wrongly targeted. When those facilities were provided, the true farmers could not access them. Therefore, they were constituted to be bad loans.Having said that,I urgethehon. Minister to improve on credit facilities to farmers so that they increase their herds and later on, manage to control diseases.

Mr Chairperson, I do know that in our discourse, we have indicated that change isconstant.This is the reason the New Dawn was Administration was ushered into Government so that it is able to effect the change. That is why there is some component of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)that is able to answer to the challenges of the farmers, as indicated. However, we have to streamline the areas which are very important, like dip tanks sothat they can help control diseases.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Malambo: Mr Chairperson, not only dip tanks, but we also need dams. I know that drought is here to stay and it will take time for us to control it. If we are able to enhance water harvesting, our animals will be able to have drinking water.

Mr Chairperson, many of the veterinary personnel do not stay in their catchment areas. Since they do not stay in the catchment areas, it is reducing their ability of service delivery to the people. If only veterinary officers are able to stay in areas of their jurisdiction, farmers would easily access them. Once farmers access them, I can assure the Hon. Minister that the required service will be given to the farmers timely. If we are able to house veterinary personnel, even drugs can be easily accessed. This is going to help us have not only quality animals but also disease-free animals. On behalf of the constituency I represent, Magoye, I submit and support this Vote.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate and greetings from Chienge.

Mr Chairperson, I just want say that as people of Chienge, we do support this budget line because it is important to the people of Chienge. However, we have a bigchallenge. The livelihood for the people of Chienge is dependent on fish. As we are talking, Lake Mweru and rivers there, like Kalungwishi River, have been depleted of fish. We have a challenge. Most fishermen are using illegal fishing nets. I have been appealing to the previous and the current Governments, through the hon. Minister, to come to Chienge and reinforce and help officers in Chienge to put to an end to the issue of using what we call ifidanana.

Mr Chairperson, when you use ifidanana, even the tiniest fish will be fished out. How are we going to improve our fish stocks like that? From 1^st December there is what we call fish ban. Who is fish ban for? Our colleagues on the other side, in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), there are busy fishing. Moreover, fish does not know boundaries in the water. Instead of our Government coming to the aid of the people of Chienge to say that since you failing to adhere to the laws of the country regarding illegal fishing nets, we are going to introduce fish caging.

Mr Chairperson, what is happening is that people of Chienge applied to Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) for funding and names came out but to date, nothing has come out. Before I became a Member of Parliament, I was told that fishermen were paying K2,000 towards CEEC in order for them to get loans but they have never been given. We are talking of almost eight years, if not, nine years. We do not know who benefitted from those loans. The people of Chienge can bear me witness.

Mr Mbangweta: PF!

Rev. Katuta: It is not the Patriotic Front (PF).You have technocrats. The Patriotic Front did not go to Chienge to give out loans. It is the technocrats. People were applying to CEEC which is under the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: Let us be serious. You are leaving people who are depriving citizens of a service - the technocrats, and you want to push the blame on somebody else. As long as you do not change these technocrats, even in the previous sessionof the House, I used to say the same thing. The Government will change but the technocrats will remain. Another Government will come and the technocrats will deal with you in the same manner.

Hon. Kapala: Question!

Rev. Katuta: Do not look at political parties. The institution that takes forms there and gives the people of Chienge is not a political party but the CEEC.

Mr Chairperson, there was a time when I asked for permission to bring in some people to Nigeria to come and train our people in cage fishing and that they would give loans to our people. I was given a green light but immediately CEEC heard that, they rushed to Chienge to tell people that they weretaking cagesto them. To date, nothing has happened and the people of Chienge can bear me witness on the matter. I have good news for the New Dawn Government. If it does not act, Chienge is not a place which tolerates anything. We are not going to vote for you …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Rev. Katuta: …and we will make sure we tell you –

Hon. UPND Members: We won in Chienge.

Rev. Katuta: You can say that. We are not going to vote for you.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: If you think it is a joke, you go ahead and ignore this.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: But what I am telling you –

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: You cannot do anything in Chienge.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Rev. Katuta: Let me tell you.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, stick to your line of debate. We are considering Vote 86. So, you stick to thecontents of Vote 86.

You want to turnout as if you are at a political rally to see who is going to vote for who. We are politicians and everyone has to be voted for. So, let us just stick to the Vote under discussion.

Rev. Katuta: Much obliged, Mr Chairperson. Those who do not live there, they can go on the ground, we are waiting for them.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta:For Chienge, if you do not replenish their lake by helping them use new technology of fish farming, I am sorry because that is our livelihood. So, what I am asking from this Government is to make a follow up with the technocrats on what happened with all those loans that the people of Chienge applied for whose names came out. However, to date, they have not been given the money.

Mr Chairperson, there was a time when the CEEC ran an advertisement that theywould be giving out fingerlings and helping others to produce feed. Nothing has come through for Chienge. We only heard of Chilanga and, I think, Kafue which were given those loans. I am appealing to this ministry to give loans to the people of Chienge so that they can also be beneficiaries of the national cake.

With those few words, Mr Chairperson, I just want to say that we support this Vote but I beg this ministry to reinforce the officers in Chienge so that we stop using illegal fishing nets. The hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock knows what I am talking about. There is no way the fish ban is going to have meaning when others still go on the water.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, let me appreciate my hon. Colleagues whohave supported this Vote; Mr Michelo, Mr Fube, Member of Parliament for Chilubi, Mr Miyutu, Mr Mapani, Mr Chanda, Mr Shakafuswa, Mr Malambo and finally, the person who wants to give conditions, Rev. Katuta.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote:I thank them for their contributions.

Laughter

Mr Chikote:Mr Chairperson, this is a very important sector. All hon.Members have agreed that it can add value and change the livelihood of the people we represent. I appreciate them for realising that this is a very important Vote that can make a big difference economically.

Mr Chairperson, the New Dawn Government is committed to this sector, and this has been illustrated in the way money has been allocated compared to the previous Government. This gives confidence to my hon. Colleagues that going forward, this sector will not be the same. We have laid foundations which will see this sector adding value in the respective constituencies.

Now, I want to start with the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) which is a regulatory body and it is very effective. The only thing which was missing then was the representation of our technocrats at that level of management. So, what we are doing as a ministry is negotiating and pushing to make sure that ZAMRA management has good representation of senior technocrats on the body. This is going to be done to make sure that the staffing levels of ZAMRA meet the demands of our people. We are aware that purchasing animal health drugs has been a big problem because most of the members in management focused on human health. As a ministry, we are doing our best to make sure that we put in place a better management structure so that we represent the ministry well. So, this is why I am saying that going forward, things will not be the same.

Mr Chairperson, there was an issue to do with delays at the Central Veterinary Research Institute (CVRI) Balmoral Institute. People have been struggling to bring their samples all the way from Shangombo to Lusaka. I assure you that going forward, things will be different. They will not be the way they were. As I am talking, we have already put in place a decentralised way of working. The people from the Southern Province will no longer be required to bring their samples to Lusaka. They will be taking their samples to Choma where we have opened a laboratory. All the tests will be done in the Southern Province. That is one way of decentralising.

Mr Chairperson, the New Dawn Government has really invested in this sector to make sure that people do not struggle and travel long distances just to bring samples for testing. So, in the 2023 Budget, we are also committed to making sure that the six laboratories are operationalised. These are in Chipata, Mongu and Mansa. These will help make sure that our farmers do not struggle when doing these tests. Going forward, delays will be a thing of the past.

Mr Chairperson, the Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP) is mainly in the Western Province. I think this is one of the areas in which we need support. To combat CBPP, we need support from farmers, especially you leaders. You have to support the strategies that we are coming up with to help eradicate this disease. This disease has been there for several years, but because of not adhering to certain strategies, we have been struggling with it. The House may be aware that as a result, it has been very difficult to sale live animals. You cannot transport them from the Western Province to other markets. As the New Dawn Government, we have already put up strategies that are going to help us. How? The first one we have just laid down in the 2023 Budget is by trying to revive the cordon line in the Western Province. The issues around the cordon line will be addressed and we will make sure that we start by employing cordon guards in 2023. This will be to make sure that we start controlling the movement of animals that has been causing these challenges that have been there for some time. So, the eradication of CBPP is one of our priorities in making sure that we control the spread of the disease from the Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, there was an issue of escort fees. Hon. Colleagues, that intervention was brought in during the time we had Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD). To ensure that the disease does not spread, our farmers who were transporting animals were supposed to get officers to make sure that animals are transported in a legal way. As I am talking now, the issue of paying fees for escort have been abolished. That is the New Dawn Government for you. So, there is no more escort fees.

Mr Chairperson, the issue of deep tanks is very important. We have realised that controlling diseases has to start with us in the communities. So, my plea to you is that we need to work together with the communities. We must try and sensitise members of the community on the importance of having these facilities in their communities. This can be achieved. So, as communities try to spend their Constituency Development Fund (CDF), let them start considering these facilities to help control the diseases. So, I urge my hon. Colleagues to work hand in hand and engage the communities that we represent to consider funding deep tanks for our animals.

Mr Chairperson, there was also an issue of Mechanically Deboned Meat (MDM). When we bring these issues, we have to understand them from both sides. These are the same things that are coming from the people that you represent. So, what we are doing as a ministry is making sure that the MDM is regulated by the ministry. We do not allow imports anyhow. These issues are being regulated. We are paying more attention to making sure that we protect our local farmers. This is with us. The ministry is doing its level best to make sure it attends to our local farmersand protects them.

Mr Chairperson, there was also a mention of capture fisheries. Capture fisheries are very important at the moment as our natural water bodies do not have enough fish. The fish has depleted. Some of the reasons for the depletion are the ones I mentioned, such as the use of illegal gears and not adhering to the strategies that have been given. The Government is working hand-in-hand with communities to make sure that they adhere to the rules. The ministry is trying its best to put in place policies that are going to help it to regulate the fisheries industry.

The hon. Minister’stime expired.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister, wind up your debate.

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, there was an issue of –

Interruptions

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, there was an issue of extension –

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson:Order!

Hon. Minister, I give you two minutes to conclude.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, there was an issue of extension officers –

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members: Hon. Members,this is a critical industry for Zambians out there. They want to hear what is contained in their budget. So, I give him two minutes to wind up his debate. It is allowed.

Mr Mposha: Long live, Mr Chairperson!

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, an issue was raised that extension officers must be employed. The ministry has decided to make sure that the people we are going to recruit will be extension officers to provide services to our farmers.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, let say to our colleagues that there is no ban on the farming of Niloticus Tilapia. All we are doing is to regulate and protect our natural water bodies. We are guarding against the destruction of our local species. There is a programme to make sure that we bring genetic improvement research on our local species to meet the demands of our farmers.

Sir, I thank the hon. Members for the support.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Allen Banda (Chimwemwe): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 718, Programme 2132 – Animal Health Services – 407,299,437. This year, the budget has increased to K407 million from last year’s K175 million, which is an increase of about K230 million. I hope the hon. Minister is on page 718.

Mr Muchima: Page?

Mr Allen Banda: Mr Chairperson, Page 718, Programme 2132 – Animal Health Services – 407,299,437.

Interruptions

Mr Allen Banda: Mr Chairperson, there are too many speakers. Is the hon. Minister there?

Mr Chikote: Yes!

Mr Allen Banda: Good!

Mr Chairperson, last year’s budget was K175 million, but this year, it is K407million, meaning an increase of K235 million. However, when you look at livestock and fisheries production, including their improvement, the value is the same for last year and this year. Actually, this year, it is less than K10 million. Last year, it was 433 and this year, 443. Why do we have such a large increment and what animal services are we are going to undertake, especially when livestock production has reduced?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 2132 – Animal Health Services – 407,299,437 yes, Animal Health Services has moved from K175 millionto K407 million. The reason for this increase is to ensure investment in animal disease control infrastructure, enhancement of support for extension services and establishment of the Cordon Line.

Sir, these are the things I was just explaining. We have to ensure that interventions are put in place to put disease issues under control.

Mr Mulaliki (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 722, Programme2130 –Sub-programme 001 – Livestock Production, Extension and Advisory Services – K94,593,079. There is an increase of K31 million. So, the farmers in Senanga are asking; considering that this is to do with improvement of livestock, are they expecting to see the introduction of improved bulls, which are going to help improve the quality of cows?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, on page 722, Programme2130 – Livestock Production and Productivity Improvement – Sub-programme 001 – Livestock Production, Extension and Advisory Services – K94,593,079, the funds allocated to this programme are mainly to strengthen and improve service delivery to farmers through our extension officers. It is not really for stocking or restocking. This money is meant to help our farmers with extension services.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 718, Programme2130 – Livestock Production and Productivity Improvement – K239,421,865. The hon. Minister will note that this year’s budget was K303,411,144. The budget we have set for next year is K239,421,865, which means that there is a reduction of about K60 million. Could the hon. Minister kindly enlighten us on what has caused this reduction in the estimates?

Mr Chairperson, may I also have clarification on page –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, it is one question per hon. Member. It would help others also to debate.

Mr Mukosa: Noted, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, on page 718, Programme2130 – Livestock Production and Productivity Improvement – K239,421,865. Indeed, there is a reduction of 21.1 per cent and this reduction is because of the donor contribution to enhance smallholder livestock investment which is ending by 2023. This is what has contributed to the reduction. As we enter 2022, the programme will be winding up, hence the reduction.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kasandwe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2131, Sub-Programme 1002 – Capture Fisheries Extension and Advisory Services – K80,127,125. When the hon. Minister was winding up debate, he said that the ministry will endeavour to improve on fish species. How much out of the K80,127,125 has been allocated for fish restocking?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, K80,127,125 has been allocated for personal emoluments, capture fisheries, extension services delivery, surveillance enforcement, gazetting of fish breeding areas, and strengthening community fisheries management structures in order to increase production. There is no money that has been allocated for restocking of fish. Those are the activities that we are going to do with this money.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2132, Sub-Programme 2019 – Disease Control Fund – K1,000,000.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Katambo: There is a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

Mr Katambo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about employing 250 general workers or cordon guards, yet only K1 million has been allocated to this programme. What is his justification? The 250 cordon guards will have to do their activities from Jimbe all the way to Shangombo. Does the hon. Minister think this funding is sufficient?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, this fund of K 1 million has been allocated to the sub-programme as the Government’s contribution to this pool of resources, to enable the ministry to respond to emergency animal disease outbreaks, and it has been reduced due to limited resources. So, the employing of cordon guards is covered under the infrastructure development component.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, before I pose a question to the hon. Minister, let me congratulate the hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali, who has just come back, for having been reaffirmed by the Constitutional Court as the representative of the people of Chinsali. Congratulations young man.

Hon. PF. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: Question!

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2130, Sub-Programme 006 – Climate Resilient Livestock Management Project – Nil. This expenditure line was allocated K24,165,173 in this year’s approved Budget, but next year, there is nothing for that budget line. Was this a one-off project? There are issues of climate, so this should be a continuous programme. Why has the ministry not allocated funds to this budget line in this year’s Budget?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, indeed, the Climate Resilient Livestock Management Project has not been budgeted for in 2023 as its lifespan came to an end in 2022. The activities under the sub-programme have been taken up by the successor project, Sub-Programme 013 – Sustainable Livestock Infrastructure Management Project – K55,572,086. We will deal with issues pertaining to climate under this programme.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Chairperson, this point of order is very important. We are debating the Budget which was brought in by the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government. The hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga was sleeping and the Acting Whip has just woken him up. That is why –

Mr Mulunda: Siavonga?

Rev. Katuta: Sorry, the hon. Member for Gwembe. I love you my brother.

Lughter

Rev. Katuta: The hon. Member for Gwembe was fast asleep, and that is why I kept on rising on a point of order. He has just been woken up by the Whip, which is not fair. I need your serious ruling because he cannot be sleeping when we are debating his budget.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, you did not cite the Standing Orders that were breached.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2132, Sub-Programme 2003 – Veterinary Diagnostics, Research and Development – K113,744,286. The budget amount for this programme in 2021 was K1,405,000, in 2022, it was K2,098,073 and there is a huge increase in 2023. Are we able to use the resources allocated under this Vote to determine the species of the mechanically deboned meats (MDMs) that we are importing, so that we can know whether we bringing in horse or dog meat, because a European country is on record exporting horse meat?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, I hope my colleague is talking about Veterinary Diagnostics, Research and Development.

Is that what you are asking about, hon. Member?

Mr Shakafuswaindicated assent.

Mr Chikote: I just want to get it clearly whether you are talking about Sub-programme 2003.

Mr Shakafuswa: Yes.

Mr Chikote: The increase is over hundred per cent. Firstly, it is meant to facilitate preliminary works towards the establishment of the Vaccination Production Plant at the Central Veterinary Research Institute(CVRI). Secondly, it is meant to complete and equip the seven regional laboratories. This is why you have seen the lump sum. You may have heard me in my winding up debate mentioning that we are going to make sure that the other laboratories are also operationalised.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

We will get the questions from the following hon. Members: Mr Kasandwe, Mr Mushanga and Mr Katambo.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 727, Programme 2131, Sub Sub-programme 01, the number of patrols to be conducted in 2023. The hon. Minister is targeting to conduct 780 patrols during the period of the fish ban which is three months. When you divide ninety days into 780 patrols, you will get 7.5 patrols per day throughout the country. This means that you intend to patrol all the natural water bodies in the country eight patrols per day. Is that realistic, hon. Minister?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, we have officers in these places. From the way we have designed the patrols, it is possible to conduct them because we have officers in these places. It does not mean that people have to be divided. It is the officers who are in those places who conduct the patrols.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 721, Programme 2130 – Livestock Productivity and Productivity Improvement, Sub-programme 02 ˗ General Operations. In 2021, there was K171,477,172. In 2022, the budget was increased to K243,198,691 and the budget we are discussing, there is K126,046,694. Why the reduction?

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, we operate with the resources that are allocated to us. So, we are operating within the means of the resource allocated to us.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: We will have the last question from Mr Katambo.

Mr Katambo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 728, Programme 2132 ˗ Animal Health Services. In response to my earlier question, the hon. Minister said that 250 general workers would be employed and paid to manage the cordon line from Jimbe to Shangombo. The minister said that his Ministry was going to get money from the Ministry of Infrastructure and Development.

Mr Chairperson, I am worried if this will not raise an audit query because I see an allocation of K97,852,612 to Sub-programme 01 ˗ Salaries and Wages. Can hon. Minister clarify this.

Mr Chikote:Mr Chairperson, could the hon. Member to repeat his question.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: May you repeat your question, Mr Katambo.

Mr Katambo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 728, Programme 2132, Sub-programme 01, Salaries and wages. I just want clarification because the hon. Minister indicated in the response to my earlier question that he was going to pay the Cordon Guards money from what was allocated to infrastructure development. However, I see an allocation of K97,852,612 to Activity 01, Salaries and Wages.

Sir, will it not raise an audit query if the hon. Minister pays money from the budget for infrastructure, when he has an allocation for Salaries and Wages to pay the 250 Cordon Guards he is going to employ.

Mr Chikote: Mr Chairperson, what I meant was the Cordon line itself. I did not mean the wages for the guards. The wages for the guards have been budged as it is indicated there, hence, the increased allocationyou are seeing. It has increased from K68,883,883 from K97,852,612.

Vote 86 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let us make progress and move to Vote 77 – Ministry of Defence. This ministry is very sensitive. We are all hon. Members and so, as we debate, let us debate with caution. We should know how to go about certain issues that are security in nature. Let us be cautious on how we debate this Vote.

VOTE 77– (Ministry of Defence – K 7,462,455,638)

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to present Vote 77 – Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, I am honoured to stand before this august House to present Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Defence from 1^st January to the 31^st December 2023. Allow me to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for a well presented 2023 all-embracing National Budget under the theme “Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods”.

Mr Chairperson, the mandate for the ministry is to provide and maintain internal and external security through the preservation, protection and defence of the country in a professional manner in order to maintain peace and security for the citizenry and contribute to national development.

Mr Chairperson, the mandate of the Ministry of Defence is derived from Article 192 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016. The ministry executes its mandate though the three services, namely Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force and Zambian National Service and through other departments such as the defence medical services, land development branch and defence intelligence.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to now give you a synopsis of the 2022 Budget performance. During the period under review, my ministry had approved a budget of K5.5 billion. In addition to the approved budget, my ministry received an approved supplementary budget amounting to K1 billion. As at 31^st October, 2022, a total of K6.5 billion had been given.

Mr Chairperson, during the 2022 financial year, my ministry undertook Infrastructure development and rehabilitation. It constructed feeder roads, military cantonments, housing units at Chalala and Mikango Barrack and rehabilitated six dams for communities in Kalomo, Lundazi, Luwingu, Monze, Sinazeze and Solwezi District.

Mr Chairperson, in line with the government policy to transform the economy, I wish to report to this august House that during the 2021/2022 Farming Season, my ministry cultivated a total of 4,052 ha of maize, soya beans, wheat as well as tobacco.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry further planned and participated in seven joint permanent commissions in the year 2022 for the purpose of maintaining peace and security with neighbouring countries. My ministry has continued to participate in peace-keeping operations in Africa such as the Central African Republic as well as monitoring the security situation along its borders.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has developed a draft strategic plan for 2022–2026 with an implementation plan yet to be finalised. With regard to policy direction, the ministry has made progress on the development of a revised Defence Policy and Defence Act Chapter 106.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is collaborating with other stakeholders in responding to national emergencies whenever called upon. In this regard, I wish to report that the ministry played a pivotal role in conducting national events and emergencies such as haulage of maize across the country. It was also involved in the construction of 164 crossing points in areas where bridges were washed away. The ministry was also involved in distributing relief food to flood victims in the Southern Province and rehabilitation of the Monze/Niko Road, which was washed away during the last rainy season.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has continued to equip youths with skills in various training camps. So far, the 543 youths who graduated last year are currently on attachment in the respective services. Additionally, I wish to report that my ministry is involved in the construction of the Kasama Airport in the Northern Province.

Mr Chairperson, allow me now to go into the highlights of the 2023 Budget.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Defence budget estimate for 2023 is K7,462,455,638. This represents a 35 per cent upward adjustment on the approved 2022 budget of K5,517,378,021. Of the 2023 budget estimates, K5.9 million, representing 79.43 per cent of the total budget, will go towards personal emoluments while the balance of K1.5 billion, representing 21 per cent, will be spent on recurrent departmental charges and infrastructure development, among others.

Mr Chairperson, having given this budget overview, allow me now to proceed with the key features and allocations for the 2023 budget.

Mr Chairperson, in order to continue securing and monitoring the security situation in the country, the region, and the world as a whole, the ministry will continue safeguarding the territorial integrity of the nation and the world peace through deployment of troops for local and international peace operations.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry intends to recruit 5,000 officers and regular soldiers to increase manpower levels in the defence force. In line with supporting government efforts to grow the economy, my ministry will continue engaging in various agricultural ventures through the expansion of cultivated hectarage and restocking of livestock. In this regard, my ministry has set aside a total of K75 million for agriculture, livestock and value addition activities.

Further,Mr Chairperson, the ministry has expanded fish production at the Zambia National Service (ZNS)Chanyanya, in Kafue. The target is to construct one-hectare by 200 of fish ponds by 2023 and stock each pond with 82,000 fingerlings. So far, six ponds, covering six hectares, have been constructed and stocked.

Mr Chairperson, in line with the Government agenda on empowering youths, my ministry, in collaboration with the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, stands ready to contribute to youth skills development by providing skills training.

Mr Chairperson, in order to inculcate the spirit of patriotism, nationalism, good discipline and cu1tural values, my ministry plans to introduce voluntary national service training to foster unity and bring people from diverse backgrounds together,consequently making young people integrate and acquire self-sustaining skills that would make them better citizens ready to defend and contribute to economic development.

Mr Chairperson, in support of the effort to improve on road connectivity in the country, my ministry has allocated K250 million for construction and rehabilitation of feeder roads.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, my ministry, under the Leadership of Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia and Commander in Chief of the Defence Forces, shall continue to fulfil its mandate of defending the country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity through the modernisation of the defence forces. My ministry will also continue to contribute to national food security and economic development. I, therefore, call upon the hon. Members of this august House to fully and unanimously support my ministry’s budget estimates for the year 2023, as presented.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this important Vote.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Defence highlighted some of the extended functions for his ministry, which include youth training programmes, infrastructure development and agriculture. So, these are the three areas on which I will focus my debate on.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Defence is very important for the reasons that I have highlighted and I think going forward, it has to be a transformational ministry, a ministry that can contribute to the transformation of this country. I will pick, for instance, the area of agriculture. One of the challenges that we face in the area of agriculture is securing strategic reserves, especially of maize, which is 500,000 metric tonnes. The ministry should step up its efforts and increase the hectarage for cultivation so that we move towards securing the 500,000 metric tonnesstrategic reserves of maize. This will make it easy for the ministry to come up with liberal policies, to allow farmers to export maize without much ado. So, one of the challenges regarding the marketing of this crop has been securing strategic reserves.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister should take a lot of interest in the development of farming blocks in the country and pronouncements have been made regarding their creation. I feel that even as we rely on anchor investors or farmers in the farming blocks, the ministry, through the Zambia National Service (ZNS), should take a lot of interest in developing agriculture in the farming blocks going forward.

Mr Chairperson, the next issue I want to talk about is infrastructure development. I am aware that the Government has invested colossal sums of money in equipmentthat is under the ZNS. However, we have not seen much come out of that equipment. If you looked at the return on the investment, if you were to go that far, you will agree with me that we may not be getting the best out of that investment. I once served as Minister of a province and I did my own assessment concerning the work done by the ZNS. I think that a lot has to be done to ensure the equipment and the capacity that resides within that unit is properly utilised, and employed to add value to this nation.

Mr Chairperson, we have a situation in which close to 200 contracts for feeder roads were terminated, and the ministry should take advantage of this situation. Yes, some people may celebrate the termination of the road contracts, but on the other side of the country, some farmers will be unable to transport their produce to various destinations. The newly recruited teachers will be unable to get to the schools they were deployed to. The nurses and doctors who were recently recruited will be unable to comfortably sit in those areas because there are no roads.

Mr Chairperson, in this regard, the ZNS needs to stand in the gap and move in now because if it delays, people will be affected. For instance, we are going into the rainy season, and you will agree with me that most of the work that was done under the contracts that have terminated will actually be washed away by the rain. This means that when new works start, people will start from zero. So, this will be very costly for the Government. On that score, I implore the ministry to proceed with speed and ensure that it stands in the gap, so that key feeder roads are attended to going forward.

Mr Chairperson, another aspect is the issue of capacity building or training of youths. There are a number of youth training centres across the country. The ministry, through the ZNS, should take interest in this matter. Some of the challenges Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) are facing are due to the fact that youths who are starting up businesses are not properly equipped in terms of training. So, there is a need for the ministry to step up its efforts and absorb more youths in the national service, so that it equips them with skills and the requisite discipline required for them to work on their own.

Mr Chairperson, the numbers that the hon. Minister is reporting of 500 youths, is way too low. We should be talking about 10,000, 30,000 or 40,000 youths coming out of training. Talking about 500, I really could not believe it. I think that is a starting point. We should have some exponential increase in terms of numbers that should be trained. If we are going to have small and medium enterprises to talk about, we need to give them all the training that there is under the ministry. So, the number of 500, of course, makes us all uncomfortable. I am sure that going forward, the ministry will make the necessary adjustments so that next year,the Government maybe reporting in the range of 20,000 or 30,000 going forward.

Basically, Mr Chairperson, if you look at an integrated multisectoral approach to development, I think the ministry can occupy a place that can help in the development of thecountry. It remains a fact that it is a tall order to talk about employment creation as things stand. We know that previously, everybody looked at the New Dawn Government as a government that is going to create employment. The President came and informed us that he was going to create employment using the private sector. We have not seen much activity in the private sector to absorb numbers. When you go to the Copperbelt to see what is happening, you will find that the mines are literally on care and maintenance and many people are on the streets now. So, the way forward is that we need to find solutions within ourselves and training is the way to go. In the area of training the ministry really has to put in a lot of effort to ensure that country wide, camps are set and our youths are trained.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of cost, when you combine the creation of a strategic reserve and training of youths, you will agree with me that most of the camps could be self-sustaining because they will produce for themselves. At the end of the day, whatever they produce and sell can actually sustain the camps. With proper planning, I am sure that the issue of cost should not really come into play except for the initial investment for the setup.The maintenance cost, going forward, can actually be absorbed by the production that will come from the people you are training. So, we want to therefore, advise the ministry, going forward, that they should stand in the gap to help the New Dawn Government in the area of employment creation by actually creating employers. So, instead of just creating employment, through training you will be able to create employers. Ten thousand people trained can translate into 50,000 because they will actually be able to employ others in their small businesses, going forward. The fact that they came through some military training and discipline, it will be expected that their businesses can be sustained, going forward. I felt that I should add my comments to this very important Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

______

ANNOUCEMENT BY THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON

ARRANGEMENTS FOR LUNCH

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, I inform the House that the following arrangements for lunch from today, Tuesday, 13^th December to Friday, 16^th December, 2022. Lunch will be from 1300 hours to 1415 hours. The House will resume sitting at 1430 hours. Hon. Members will have their lunch in the restaurant here at Parliament Buildings. Members of Staff and ministry officials will have their lunch at the Members’ Motel. Transport to and from the Members’ Motel for staff and ministry officials will be made available at the foyer by the main entrance to Parliament Buildings. Lunch for hon. Members and staff from the ministry will be provided by courtesy of the Right Hon. Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: I urge all hon. Members to be punctual and I request the Whips to ensure that the quorum is formed at 1430 hours.

I thank you.

______

The Deputy Chairperson: With me here are two lists that have been availed for hon. Members willing to debate this Vote. The speakers from the right are Gen. Sitwala, Mr Kambita, Mr Katakwe and Mr Sialubalo and from the left, the Leader of the Opposition in the House, the Deputy Whip, Mr Mpundu, and Mr Fube. So, those of you that had indicated, I think, I will be guided by these lists.

I thank you.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: In case the Independents are –Where is the Whip?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us proceed.

Mr Fube: Mr Chairperson, in the first place, the people of Chilubi appreciate the increment of the budget from K5,517,378,021 last year to K7,462,455,638 billion. The people of Chilubi would like to concentrate mainly on the roads and the agricultural role of the Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, in the first place, when I look at the budget,I see that it has only catered for 600 km of roads. Given the status of the nation, especially going by the number of road works which have been terminated, which are going to almost 700 km in seven provinces, Chilubi claims about three of those roads. I would have loved that the K250 million which has been allocated for rural roads development is increased, especially that it would have covered the gap that has been left by the terminated roads under the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Mr Chairperson, I want to also indicate that the K75 million that has been allocated for agriculture and industrial development may not be sufficient especially that the military wings have proved to be efficient in the area of agriculture. To be specific, I think all the military wings are involved in some sort of farming.

Mr Chairperson, having said that, I want to also indicate that the 45,000 hectares that would be cleared and budgeted for in this money may not be sufficient especially that this is a growth window. If you look at what has been gotten from the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP)and the contribution of the Ministry of Defence –

Laughter

Mr Fube: Young man, what are you laughing at? This Nkana boy!

Laughter

Mr Fube:So, when we look at this,I have in mind some of the policies that were approved because Government is a going concern. I have in mind projects like the cultivation of marijuana by the Zambia National Service, where we should have designated crops like marijuana. We can take a lot of it, of course,to be used for medicinal purposes. That is a debate that all of us understand. We have many young people who are just idling. I would like to build on what the Leader of the Opposition said that the budget for young people should be increased especially that we are considering young people from across the country. We have 116 districts, and in these districts that I have mentioned, you will find that there are also young people who would like to get on board and want to venture into utilising the 85 per cent arable land that would have given us some impetus in agriculture.

Mr Chairperson, again, I will go to the issue of the roads. When we talk about the infrastructure that is supposed to be developed, I do not even know how the ministry will even divide the K600 million given the capacity that it has in terms of equipment.This is one of the ministries that could have effected an amendment to upscale the number of kilometres and the volume of money from K250 million, which is far below what is expected.

Mr Chairperson, it will be a misnomer on the people of Chilubiif I did not appreciate the increment of the allocation to the Air Defence Military TrainingProgramme which, last year, was K230, 000, but has increased to K30 million. We are talking about issues which can tally with the changing dynamics in airspace training, especially buying in the current technology that is happening elsewhere. There is a need to boost our men and women in uniform with current technological knowledge so that they can be up-to-date. So, I would have loved that budget line to have been given more attention.

Mr Chairperson, I know that issues of national military service have been limited, mainly, to the youthin this country that are seen asmore of delinquents. However, there are youths who can fall in the bracket of blue-collar jobs and the peasants, if you may call them, who need to be taken on board. We all know the discipline we learnt from childhood and from military training, for those who used to go immediately they completed form 5 or Cambridge. Even the initiative that they espouse is very different from today’s generation. So, such training could be ventured into. It should not be identified with issues of humanism or the United National Independence Party (UNIP), but as an issue that realises the potential that the country has, especially in land and water bodies.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to engage the Ministry of Defence. When I hear anything to do with fish, I get excited. I heard the hon. Minister talk about fish ponds. I think that the people of Chilubi, even if there is no military installation in their area, would like to invite the ministry. We have the competence. That ministry should take a competency-based approach. The military can be given land anywhere because it is a national institution, so that we utilise the water bodies. Apart from that, we have land where it can do earthen ponds.

Sir, that is what the people of Chilubi submit, as they support the budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for this opportunity. Indeed, on behalf of the people of Kaoma, I join those who have already debated in support of this budget. I appreciate the increase from K5.5billion to K7.4 billion.

Sir, as we debate the Ministry of Defence, I call for total support. We should not only appreciate this increase, but also continuously ask for more to be given to our defence forces. This is in appreciation of what our defence forces have done from the time we got our independence and continue doing.

Mr Chairperson, Iget surprised when I hear some people ask why we are recruiting so many soldiers and police officers. This is a noble profession, which I think we must all appreciate. It is very difficult for the defence forces because we cannot quantify what they do. The defence forces are not like teachers with whom you can say,‘so many students passed.’ It is not like farming where you can count the bags of maize that have been put somewhere. Defence forces do a lot. Our stay in this House, the peace that we enjoyand the economy of the country to move require defence forces and our security forces to secure. Indeed, they have done this from time immemorial and continue doing so.We require our defence forces in times of need. Even when the country is almost breaking down during elections, they come forth to ensure that peace is maintained. It is as a result of the peace that they maintain that the nation is able to move forward and grow.

Mr Chairperson, I have heard some hon. Members talk about the United States of America (USA), the United Kingdom (UK), Japan, Germany and China. These countries are what they are today because they have maintained great defence and security forces that have been able to protect their countries. In so doing, they have been able to protect their economies, and this has in turn brought stability in those countries, thereby providing peace and security to everyone in those nations. So, this is one ministry that we should debate with respect and continue appreciating.

Mr Chairperson, I will be failing in my duties if I do not mention one thing which, of late, I think, was almost bringing down our country. As the hon. Minister knows, this Vote was never debated in this House for obvious reasons, but today, we are seeing corruption entering the Ministry of Defence. When you look at the recent Auditor-General’s Report, what came out is that there is a lot of debt for this country, and we should not allow this to happen to our soldiers who are supposed to look after us. We are seeing money being embezzled in this ministry …

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Brig-Gen. Sitwala: ... at the expense of the many problems that our soldiers, police officers and, indeed, security officers face today. In most barracks, we still have problems of accommodation, water and the road network, and a lack of other things that our defence forces require, which are essential for their wellbeing. These are issues which we should, by all means, try to eradicate as we enter 2023.

Mr Chairperson, we must ensure that we look at the morale of our officers. It is very important for them to secure us. You cannot have a defence force that is not motivated, and you are not able to train and do the things that should make its work easy. It is, therefore, important that we look at the welfare of the officers rather than embezzle funds for them. It is worse when it is done by those who are supposed to protect funds given to them by the State, funds allocated by this House for their comfort. You hear that someone working there has run away with money and the reports coming out are that the money is in billions. When you hear the problems that our men and women in uniform have, you will find that it is not the best way to behave, and these are some of the things which bring many problems in other nations. So, we must ensure that the officers are all well looked after. In so doing, it is important that I take this opportunity to appreciate His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde, for what he has done so far. We saw the issue of the United Nations (UN) allowances resolved, yet it had been pending for years. That is commendable, and I know the soldiers out there are rejoicing. That is how it is supposed to be.

Mr Chairperson, we should also appreciate the recruitment that is taking place now. Not long ago, we were seeing soldiers passing out without even knowing how they were recruited, but today, there is a very transparent system of recruiting people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Sitwala: The defence forces must be balanced. They must consist of everyone from all corners of the country. That is how you bring stability in your security forces, and that is how it should be. I also thank the President for the salary increments that will be effected in 2023. Indeed, that is one thing that will motivate them.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I, again, appreciate the budget and I hope that it will change the lives of our defence forces.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1255 hours until 1430 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, in this time and era, modernisation of the defence forces in terms of science and technology should not be left out. Henceforth, it is prudent that the hon. Minister and his technocrats focus on this area in order to move with the global trends where defence and security is concerned. It is, therefore, paramount that we expect the Government to do certain things that are of great importance in order to modernise our defence forces.

Sir, the other thing that the hon. Minister needs to focus on is the welfare of our men and women in uniform. First of all, maintenance of the morale of officers is so critical. In this vein, I will be specific. Yes, there are certain areas where the ministry has provided accommodation for officers, but there are certain units where more needs to be done. I will specifically mention our special forces, also known as the Commando Unit. The ministry needs to zero in on this matter so that the morale of our officers is enhanced.

Mr Chairperson, in addition, the ministry also needs to find a mode for rehabilitation of camps in terms of water and sanitation facilities. Whenever we upgrade or build these facilities, we need to ensure that we have a mode on how the rehabilitation will be done. This will help boost our officers’ morale as they perform their duties.

Mr Chairperson, in addition to that, there is need to preserve the military culture. The military culture is what propels the discipline of officers. So, discipline needs to be enhanced in order for us to preserve the military culture.

Mr Katakwe: Is that the way you say ‘culture’?

Mr C. Mpundu: Well, you think you will derail me? You have already heard what that means.

Mr Chairperson, at the same time, the defence forces need to be well-motivated and equipped with modern and serviceable weapons. Therefore, the ministry needs to zero in on modernisation, in terms of the trends that are there globally. I, therefore, urge the hon. Minister to relook the army inventory in terms of the equipment, vis-à-vis, modernisation.

Sir, another aspect that the hon. Minister needs to look at is that other countries, for example, South Africa, Nigeria and Egypt, to mention a few, have defence industries. These defence industries are used to earn foreign exchange (Forex). At the same time, they provide the needed ordinances to the respective defence wings. So, I urge the hon. Minister to look at this aspect.

Mr Chairperson, in as much as we are enjoying the peace that we have, I also urge the hon. Minister to create more units or battalions in certain areas that need to be identified. As much as we are surrounded by eight neighbouring countries, it is not that the peace can always be there. The cardinal point is that conflicts are part and parcel of human interaction. Therefore, we expect to have areas where these establishments should be. The ministry needs to focus on that area because it will be in conformity with the modern military systems.

Sir, the hon. Minister also needs to look at equipping the defence forces properly and this is a very serious matter. We need to equip the engineering units in our defence forces with modern equipment. These are of great importance, especially in times of peace and disasters. Many a time have we had disasters and we run to these units. However, if these units are not equipped with equipment that is worth having, then we will create problems for ourselves.

Mr Chairperson, it is important for the hon. Minister to look at this few issues that I have itemised in order to propel a defence force that is worth having and able to compete with international standards.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I support the budget. I thank you.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Zambezi East an opportunity to debate Vote 77 – Ministry of Defence. Indeed, the Ministry of Defence is a creation of this House through our laws. Chapter 106 of the Laws of Zambia, the Defence Act, read together with Article 192 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 2 of 2016, usher in this very important ministry of our land.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry, of course, as stated to by the acting hon. Leader of Government Business in the House, operates in the following institutions:

Zambia Army;
Zambia Air Force (ZAF); and
Zambia National Service (ZNS).

Sir, in addition to that, it does also offer health services under the Defence Force Medical Services, including military intelligence.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to anchor my debate on the following themes. I will first begin with commenting on the performance of the past budget for the year that we are just concluding; 2022. Thereafter, allow me to also speak about the current budget, which we are debating today in terms of how it sits, including issues contained therein. I will then conclude my debate on a note of commenting on the overall accountability at that ministry.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry’s budget for 2022 was K5.5 billion. Just to demonstrate the budget credibility of the New Dawn Administration, we heard the hon. Minister say that disbursements to the tune of K6.5 billion have been made so far to that ministry. This demonstrates the fact that we actually disbursed over and above what we had approved in the 2022 Budget. Of course, this was done through a supplementary budget. This is why disbursements were made to that extent. He also mentioned that from that budget, feeder roads were worked on. There was also rehabilitation of dams and bridges and agricultural production. For the welfare of our staff working in that ministry, there were salaries and other amenities which were provided.

Sir, what really interests me most is the policy direction we have taken as Government. Our officers who will go for peacekeeping will now receive 100 per cent of the dues that they are entitled to. This is a plus in the right direction and is in tune with our promises to make sure that the welfare of people who work for public office is maintained.

Mr Chairperson, allow me now to delve in the current budget issues. I see in the 2023 Budget an allocation of K7.4 billion to this ministry. This is an increment of about 34.5 per cent from the previous budget, which is a plus in the right direction, of course.

Sir, acting on behalf of the Leader of Government Business in the House and his ministry, the hon. Minister of Defence mentioned that in this budget, money has been set aside for infrastructure development to the tune of K250 million. However, I was taken aback by the amount. Important as that function is, K250 million seems too meagre. I have a road in Zambezi called the Zambezi/Chitokoloki Road. This road is perennially rehabilitated by this ministry and I think this money does not look like it is going to achieve much.

Mr Chairperson, I would have liked that amount to be increased and maybe that will be done in future periods. Understandably, I know the fiscal space is quite inhibiting, but we need to do a little bit better on infrastructure development. I know we are really bleeding as a nation in as far as allocations for infrastructure development are concerned. Nonetheless, it is one avenue which is very cheap for the Government to actually implement some of these works, especially on feeder roads. We have several feeder roads in Zambezi such as the Zambezi/Nyakuleng’a Road and Zambezi/Mpidi Road, which the Ministry of Defence could actually attend to by rehabilitating it, as well as small bridges.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to now conclude my debate on the note of accountability. There has been a hot debate in public domain concerning accountability at that ministry. Of course, the debate is very clear because of the regime from which we are coming and how public finances were handled in this ministry. Those who wielded power seemed to have made it a cash cow. This ministry became a cash cow in that there was allocation of contracts at will like people were sharing beer.

Interruptions

Mr Kambita: This is how these contracts were issued and here we are. I have seen a decision made by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to ensure that this issue is probed, especially for those arrears that are sitting under this ministry. This is to ensure that what we are paying for was actually supplied, so that we do not pay for air which was supplied and nothing was attained. Therefore, the current audit that is taking place in this ministry is in the right direction. It is in the interest of the people of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: It is not in the interest of a few people neither is it just to please them. It is in the interest of the people of Zambia and it should be correctly done. This is because the Office of the Auditor-General has the mandate to audit such institutions. The Auditor-General has the discretion to appoint external auditors whom he/she feels can assist in doing this work. In any case, this is simply a verification process. It is part of the internal control systems to ensure accountability in the ministry before payment is made. This is so that the payment that is going to be made is justified.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kambita: Mr Chairperson, on that note, I would like to end my debate by saying that we expect better accountability in this ministry. Of course, payments should only be made with proper facts established in as far as expenditure in the Ministry of Defence is concerned.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: There is a point of order.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Chairperson, let me begin by sincerely thanking you for according me this opportunity to rise on this very important point of order. My point of order is premised on Standing Order 65, which refers to the content of speech. As you may be aware, when we tender discourse on the Floor of the House, such discourse must contain verifiable information.

Sir, this point of order is against my hon. Colleague who has just finished his submission. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, came on the Floor of the House and told hon. Members of Parliament, and through them the nation, that those audits in the defence forces have been contracted by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. We know that the Auditor-General does not work for the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Chairperson, therefore, is my hon. Colleague in order to stand on the Floor of the House and indicate that the Auditor-General has got power to contract those people in the manner he did when in fact, those audits were contracted by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Lunte, the problem is that you stood very well, but again you debated your point of order on your own.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: So, that complicated everything because you have debated your point of order, yourself.

Mr Katakwe(Solwezi East): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving the good people of Solwezi East in Mushindamo District an opportunity to add their voice to the discussion on this Vote concerning the Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, from the beginning, allow the people of Solwezi East to say that we are in support of this Vote. We have seen that in 2022, K5.5 billion was allocated to this ministry and now it is K7.5 billion. This allocation has been subdivided towards land and marine defence, air defence, military and national service, military technical and specialised services and management and support services.

Mr Chairperson, I will single out the land and marine defence. Solwezi East borders with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Chililabombwe, Chingola, Lufwanyama, Kasempa, part of Kalumbila and Solwezi Central. That is quite vast a constituency.

Mr Chairperson, last week, I just came from the DRC side.The stretch is so long. Now, there is a place called Lumata. On the DRC side, there are military people keeping their border safe, but on the Zambian side,there is nothing; not even border patrol. So, the people of Solwezi East are saying, as they support this Vote, that they would like the Ministry of Defence to take key interest in that boarder area.

Mr Chairperson, right now, as we talk, if anything happened, requiring immediate response, we would be incapacitated. Firstly, the defence forces wouldnot be able to reach that side. To get to Lumata area, they need to go through Solwezi,as they go to the border. They would not come down near Chililabombwe because there are two rivers which are very important, and theywould not be able to cross because there are no bridges there. If they have to get into that area where we have the flying doctor services, in Luamfula, theywould have to go through Chililabombwe. However, you notice that there is too much traffic on that route.By the time they would get there, it would be too late.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Solwezi East are saying thatto enhance land security, the Ministry of Defence needs to take keen interest. If you traversed Chililabombwe going through Lumata up to the Kipushi Border, you would take even the whole day travelling a distance that is less than 100 km. Our defence forces need to take keen interest because our friends on the DRC side, during their mining, use their tipper trucks to freely cross into our area to deposit their minerals into Chililabombwe and Chingola. One can meet the DRC trucks loaded with Charcoal, poles of our trees and forest getting into the DRC side, yet we have our men and women in uniform, the Zambian National Service (ZNS), just stationed somewhere where they count how many bags of mealie meal or maize are going into the DRC and how many people are smuggling things, which is not even really their mandate.

Mr Chairperson, we are saying that with this allocation that has been given, the ministry should try to look at the road network through the Lumata area and try to beef up the network for our military people that side and also provide them with, at least, either some motorised motor bikes or good vehicles that can be used to patrol that area.

Mr Chairperson, in addition, the ministry should also look at the military’s cry for manpower. They are very few. If anything,there are less than ten ZNS people based in that section.That is really not enough. The ministry needs to increase manpower.

Mr Chairperson, the land in that area is quite fertile.All the way from the source of the Kafue River, in my district, down to Chililabombwe, we have enough land, good rainfall and good temperature. These men and women in uniform, like the ZNS, can be given a chance to be involved in agriculture and fish farming in that areaso that, instead of them restricting what is being exported to the DRC, they can actually be participants in what has to be exported.

Mr Chairperson, as I support this Vote, the ministry should consider the areas that I have itemised. Going forward, this allocation should be increased in order to support the areas that I have itemised.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Solwezi East are thankful and, indeed, support this Vote for the Ministry of Defence.

I thank you,Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Kampyongo will be followed by Mr Munir Zulu and Mr Sialubalo will be the last one to speak.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, let me start by acknowledging the policy statement that the hon. Minister delivered on Vote 77–Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, indeed, the mandate of the ministry has already been spelt out by the hon. Minister. Of course, it is not limited to the preservation, protection andensuring that territorial boundaries of our State are kept intact. The ministry also participates in other productive activities, as the hon. Minister said, such as the construction of feeder roads, and agricultural production and productivity, which is very key.

Mr Chairperson, I am happy that the ministry has continued to ensure that the infrastructure that was left incomplete is still being supported in order to improve the welfare of our men and women.

Mr Chairperson,under the Zambia National Service (ZNS), we saw the introduction of milling plants. These are heavy milling plants which are able to help in mitigating the cost of the staple food in the country. It is important that thatinfrastructure is supported by production. It will not be helpful to have the milling plants, yet not have the products that need to be processed in them. The hon. Minister did say that the ministry is focusing on value chain addition.

Mr Chairperson, I have taken note of some of the areas where the hon. Minister could do better, such as the aspect of military health services. I do not think the allocation of K300,000 will be helpful. There is just an improvement of K50,000 from this year’s budget,yet we have modern facilities like the new military hospital at Arakan Barracks, the Air Force Hospital and a few other infrastructure that has come on board. I have also seen the one in Ndola. However, the amount that has been allocated to this area is not significant, and I think there is a need to do a little bit more in that area.

Mr Chairperson, on support to military sport, the hon. Minister may wish tonote that most of the renowned sports personalities came from military ranks. So, maintaining only 480,000 is equally not helpful in that area. So, the hon. Minister should try and see what he can do to improve.

Mr Chairperson, we want to see a clear-cut maintenance policy for the military cantonments. In the past, we have allowed military cantonments to deteriorate to standards which are below human habitation. So, it is important that we have a clear-cut maintenance policy of military cantonments and make sure that we allocate corresponding funds to that area. That way, it will be easier for the ministry to not spend so much money at one goal. When infrastructure is dilapidated beyond levels that are reasonable in cost, it becomes a very big challenge to maintain it.

Mr Chairperson, for Programme 4167 – Land and Maritime Defence – K3,194,484216, where some of these budget areas are coming from, the hon. Minister should see how he can supplement it.

Mr Chairperson, I was talking about agriculture under the ZNS. We saw production in the previous two years, 2020/2021, which was quite reasonable. I do not see how much the ministry is going to achieve looking at the resources that have been allocated to the production areas in the coming farming season. That is the reason I am emphasising that you cannot invest in infrastructure so much and then not have the support systemsfor it.

Mr Chairperson, the issue that my colleagues have debated on of morale amongst the defence forces is critical. At this point, I urge the hon. Minister to engage the new Emoluments Commission,through the Defence Council, to ensure that it deals with matters of personal emoluments and other welfare and staff matters regarding the men and women in the defence forces properly.If the commission is not guided, we may end up having a challenge. So, the Defence Council must guide the new Emoluments Commission, which has been given the mandate to determine the personal emoluments of all the constitutional offices. However, we want the commission to be mindful as it determines the emoluments of the defence forces.

Mr Chairperson, we appreciate the allocation of more than K8 million to research, planning, projects and Information and Communication Technology (ICT). Like my colleagues debated earlier, it is important to continue modernising the defence forces’ equipment as well as the ICT equipment. The discipline you see of our men and women in uniform whenthey are sent on peace keeping assignments is not by accident. So, let us make sure that they are properly trained, and let us continue to equip them so that they are able to discharge their duties professionally.

In conclusion, Mr Chairperson, as we allocate resources to the ministry, there is a need for accountability, but it is provided for. I heard the debate of the hon. Member for Kaoma Central, General Sitwala, and he emphasised on accountability. However, let us stick to the law. Defence forces are not ordinary institutions where you can send every Jim and Jack to go and look at their books. So, much as they must be accountable, there is an office charged with ensuring that there is accountability. The reports of accountability come to this august House and I have never seen any report come from any private institution all the years I have spent here. So, let us not start bending the rules when it comes to accountability issues. The private audits are welcome elsewhere. We do not mind these institutions being audited, but they should be audited according to what is provided for in the law …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: … and the Attorney-General’s Office is the right office to audit them.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I must mention that we are privileged in Lumezi to house the Zambia National Service (ZNS) camp called Ngong’a. You realise that agriculture and industrial production has reduced. For us who house a ZNS unit in Lumezi, we would have appreciated if there was more funding for agriculture and industrial production. The ZNS in Lumezi has been doing very well in that department, so we had hope that there would be a serious increment in the funds allocated to that.

Mr Chairperson, I will not take away the fact that other speakers have talked about young people being employed, but 500 is a small number. However, I commend the ministry because it has done very well in the area of sports. It has contributed to the success of the female Zambia National Football Team, and it has produced quite a number of female players. We appreciate that and we hope that it will consider providing extra funding for the young people.

Mr Chairperson, on the abuse of resources in the past and currently, this is where we have the biggest challenge. According to the submission made by Hon. Kambita, people need to be audited. On page 658 of the Budget, there is a programme objective that reads, “To defend Zambian Air Space, render support to ground forces, transport civilauthorities and co-operate with state organs and institutions.” On top of that, let me add a quote from Joseph Murphy which says “there is no virtue in poverty.”

Mr Chairperson, if we decide to sell the Gulfstream, which is a property of the Ministry of Defence without following the procedure, what Hon. Kambita submitted will be the story of the years to come. If, indeed, we are saying we are buying new equipment for our men and women in uniform, we should equally consider having a state-of-the-art gulfstream with military features, and it should not be sold to any citizen without considering the fact that it is an asset of our defence forces.

Mr Chairperson, this matter is in the public domain and the hon. Minister needs to assure the Zambian people in his response that if, indeed, the defence forces do not need that aircraft, the Government will do the right thing on how to dispose it of. It should not be disposed of without the input of our men and women in uniform confirming to the Zambian people that they do not need it. This should be placed on record so that twenty years later, the defence forces should not ask the Zambian people to procure the same military jet that the ministry is trying to dispose of for no genuine reason.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to say one or two words on the budget for the Ministry of Defence.

Mr Chairperson, if there is any ministry whose budget I support, even if the stretch of the road from Sinazongwe to Batoka is bad, it is this ministry. This ministry houses men and women who are so disciplined …

Interruptions

Mr Sialubalo: … and unique as if they come from another country, not Zambia. I do not know what type of training they undergo, but whatever they have laid their hands on, the results have been so good. The people of Sinazongwe support this ministry even with their eyes closed. The men and women who have gone out of the country on peace keeping missions have brought glory to the country. So, the people of Sinazongwe easily support the budget for this ministry without much doubt.

Mr Chairperson, looking at what is obtaining in other institutions within Zambia, it is the people of Sinazongwe’s desire that going forward, let us learn from what used to happen under the United National Independence Party (UNIP) regime where whoever completed Grade 12, which was Form V then, had to undergo training at the Zambia National Service (ZNS). That was done so that when people were employed in ministries, they would be disciplined when it came to the utilisation of resources. We are missing it as a country because we recruit people for dancing to a political song, and those people do not understand the dos and don’ts of the Government. The people of Sinazongwe can be so happy if going forward, there can be an opportunity for the youths to be trained so that when they go to work in Government ministries or departments, they can become so productive looking at what the Ministry of Defence is doing.

Mr Chairperson,there is a Marine Department in Sinazongwe which is doing exceptionally well and is disciplined. It does not have time to joke, but is committed to duty. Whenever it is called upon that there is a calamity,it rushes and performs its duty. As hon. Members of Parliament, we have had many disasters and no one in this House can say they were let down by men and women in uniform.

Mr Chairperson, so, if we say that let the Ministry of Defence run the entire budget, believe me, in a year’s time,we will have no auditor reports. So, as Zambians, we have a lot to learn from the Ministry of Defence on how it conducts its business, as we support the budget. If we really need to develop the nation, let us focus on what our men and women in uniform are doing. It is doing exceptionally well and we have a lot to learn.

Mr Chairperson, when you look at the northern part of our country;Lavushimanda in Kanchibiya,Chifunabuli,Mwansabombwe, Chembe and Chilubi Island, you will find many wetlands. If we go to the chiefs and ask for pieces of land in the wetlands and cultivate rice using the men and women in uniform, hunger in Zambia can be a thing of the past. We have a determined unit under the Zambia National Service (ZNS) that can do a good job. So, all we need to do is allocate a lot of money to the Ministry of Defence. We should use them wisely so that the idea of saying that there is climate change when we have many wetlands should come to an end. We can use the Ministry of Defence to alleviate poverty in the country. So, going forward, we need a bigger budget for the ministry and we need to learn a lot on how it conducts its business.

Mr Chairperson, with these few words, the people of Sinazongwe do support the budget.I thank you.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, thank very much for the opportunity to windup debate. It is left for me thank all the hon. Member of Parliament who debated;Hon. Mundubile who is the Leader ofthe Opposition for starting the debate,Hon. Fumbe, Hon. Sitwala –

Hon. PF. Members:Hon. Fube.

Mr Lufuma:Where I come from it is Mbe. Alright, Hon. Fube, Hon. Mpundu, Hon. Kambita, Hon. Katakwe, Hon. Kampyongo, Hon. Munir Zulu and finally as the Chairperson calls him, Hon. ‘Salubalo’.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma:Mr Chairperson, I am humbled and appreciative of the various comments that have come from both the right andthe left. I think the comments have been very instructive, informative and advisorythat we, as the Ministry of Defence, have received from both sides.

Mr Chairperson,let me just pick one or two issues and elaborate on them. Yes, the Ministry of Defence is primarily responsible for defence and security, territorial integrity and ensuring that there is peace and honour in the country. It is true that is our biggest mandated, however, in times of peace, we take on a different jacket, which is basically that we contribute to the social and economic transformation of the country.Thatis the agenda on the table from the New Dawn Government.

Mr Chairperson,we contribute in terms of being productive in agriculture and hon. Members have touched on agriculture. We are going into agriculture in a big way, not only as the Zambia National Service (ZNS) but all services of the defence force that include the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) and the Zambia Army. So, agriculture is going to be a big programme in the year 2023 going forward.However, apart from agriculture and other productive ventures that we would like to go in, I think we have touched infrastructure which is very important.We would like to be a mitigating factor in infrastructure.We all note that on infrastructure pricing, especially of roads and some of these important infrastructure the country needs, there has been a tendency to over exaggerate prices. We would like to sober up the sector and ensure that we are involved in it and bring sanity to the pricing of some of the infrastructure that are undertaken in order to ensure that our country moves forward.

Mr Chairperson, the other area of concern and somehow people have touched on it, is the modernisation of our defence force.This is a very important policy and we are basically on top of things in terms of modernisation.We would definitely like to modernise our equipment and assets so that we are as modern as any other defence force in the region and the world.We are also intending to go big on information communication technology (ICT), which is very important.We want to ensure that with the modernisation of our defence force, we are able to enhance the defence and security of this country, especially vis-a-vis the borders.We have extensive borders and we cannot, without modernisation, be able to secure them as we are supposed to.

Mr Chairperson, further on, some hon. Members touched on the numbers or capacity of our defence force. Yes, the numbers might not be as desired and it is why,as the New Dawn Government’s policy, we would like to be recruiting transparently on yearly basisso that everybody knows what is happening.As one hon. Member of Parliament mentioned, everybody should know that we are recruiting.We will be recruiting bit by bit, given our resource capacities.However, as long as we do it every year, I think we should be able to up our numbers so that we are able to ensure that our mandated is fulfilled.

Mr Chairperson,on infrastructure, it is only K250 million that has been budgeted for and, indeed, it must not be enough. However, this is an issue of resources and competing needs on the resources that we have.We are sure of and what the hon. Members should be assured of,like Hon. Sialubalo has said, is thatwe are going to utilise these monies with efficiency and economy. So,they will get value for money from us.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of the possibility of inculcating the culture of discipline, commitment and hard work that one hon. Member talked about, we as the defence force are ready to take up that challenge and it will be taken up in terms of training.We are thinking of reintroducing voluntary Zambia National Service training. This is in line with the spirit that we want to inculcate; discipline, commitment and hard work. Apart from that, we also want to inculcate the spirit of patriotism which in most cases nowadays is missing in the mass of our youths in Zambia. That is a very important programme and funds allowing, from the Treasury, we should be able to take up that programme.

Mr Chairperson, as regards accountability or corruption and embezzlement of funds affecting morale, we as New Dawn Government, as you all well know, are zero tolerant to corruption and we want to ensure that the defence force is no exception. Read my lips. It will no longer be a cash cow.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: We will ensure that it is no longer a cash cow.

On that note, Mr Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members for the positive contributions that we received. Be assured that your suggestions and advice will be taken into consideration as we move on and forward to defend and ensure the security and peace of this country and the region as a whole.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 77 – (Ministry of Defence –K7,422,455,638)

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Chairperson, on page 655, Programme 4169, Sub-programme 5099 – Rural Roads Development – K250,000,000. The people of Kamfinsa and I are interested to know if this money meant for buying equipment or fuel. I am sure other colleagues of mine are also interested to know. What will this amount be used for? We need to know whether we should come to your office tomorrow to request for some of the roads to be worked on in the farming blocks of Kamfinsa.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Member for that question. The K250 million will be used for both; to up the asset capabilities of the Zambia National Service (ZNS) for it to deliver. So, it is a mixture of both the necessary running costs as well as one or two assets that should enable us to deliver accordingly.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, on page 653, there is a budget summary on Budget Allocation by Economic Classification, Sub-Programme 21 –Personal Emoluments K5,927,543,128. Which budget line is the hon. Minister going to utilise?

he Deputy Chairperson: Order! I think, start again.

Mr Kampyongo: I start again?

The Deputy Chairperson: Start again, so that the hon. Minister is able to follow.

Mr Kampyongo: Okay.

Hon. Minister, on page 653, where you have a budget summary on Budget Allocation by Economic Classification, Sub-Programme 21 –Personal Emoluments – K5,927,543,128. Last year, we approved a budget of K 4,986,911,778.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, give the hon. Minster a bit of time, he is still flipping the pages.

Mr Kampyongo: Okay.

Mr Mutelo walked to the Front Bench.

Mr Kampyongo: Just sit down, you.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Hon. Minister, I was saying that this year, you are proposing to spend K5,927,543,128 on personal emoluments. You are saying this will cater for salaries and other personnel related costs. My question is: where is the budget for clearing off the senior officers separated from the defence force in national interest? We cannot see any budget line speaking to that.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I thank Hon. Kampyongo for that question. This budget line is generic and will take care of all personal emoluments which includes the same payments for people who will be reinstated. So, it is inclusive in that amount. There is no other amount that we have put aside except this one.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 661, Programme 4169, Sub-programme 5002 – Agricultural and Industrial Production – K75,000,000. In 20221, the allocation was K72 million and in 2022, the allocation was K75 million. Agricultural and industrial production is a very important programme. We are hoping that Zambia can be independent and manage its food security through the Zambia National Service (ZNS). Why has the Government continued to reduce the budget allocation to this very important Vote?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, you may have noticed that the reduction is very minimal. It is so minimal that it is negligible. Therefore, it is not supposed to affect the production levels at all. The reduction is very minimal and we will be able, with what we have, in the reserves from ZNS itself, to cover that small reduction. The hon. Member should not worry much. It will not affect the production and productivity of the ZNS.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 658, Programme 4168.

Are you there, hon. Minister?

The Deputy Chairperson: Give him a bit of time.

Mr Mushanga: I will wait for him. He should give me a signal when he is ready.

The Deputy Chairperson: He is ready now, you can go ahead.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4168, Sub- programme 04, Sub-sub-programme 01 – Non-Financial Assets (Capital Expenditure) –K296,680,252. In 2021, only K20,140 was allocated and approved. In 2022, K25,031,521 was allocated and approved. In 2023, K296,680,252 has been allocated for approval by this House. What is the justification for the increase from K25,031,521 to K296,680,252?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson,Programme 4168, Sub -programme 04, Sub-sub-programme 01 – Non-Financial Assets (Capital Expenditure) –K296,680,252 is non-financial expenditure. It is capital expenditure if we are going to go big on infrastructure development where we shall be required, and if we are going to go big in terms of agricultural production and various equipment that we need. We shall need equipment in large scale. Currently, our equipment is in dilapidation. This will recapitalise the status of the equipment that we ought to have in order to give the necessary service.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr C. Chibuye (Mkushi North): Mr Chairperson,may I have clarification on Page 655, Programme 4167, Sub-programme 3003 – Land and Maritime Military Training – K66,685,00. I have seen a huge increment in this year’s budget estimate. Do we see the actualisation of one of the centres or areas that the Zambia Army acquired in Luano District under Chief Kanyensha being attended to under this budget line?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I am sorry I did not hear what he wanted to know about Kanyensha.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, repeat the question.

Mr C. Chibuye: Mr Chairperson, what I was trying to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister is under the training centres. Are we able to see the actualisation of this land which was acquired by the Zambia Army as a training centre for our men and women in uniform under chief Kanyensha in Luano District?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 4167, Sub-programme 3003 – Land and Maritime Military Training – K66,685,00, the drastic increment is attributed to the fact that we are going to have a recruitment and training exercise. I am sure the hon. Member is aware that we are recruiting 5,000 personnel for training. This amount has been allocated for that purpose. It is not to acquire any land or anything like that from Kanyensha. It is specifically for training purposes.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Chairperson,may I have clarification on Page 661, Programme 4169, Sub-programme 5002 – Agriculture and Industrial Production – K75,000,000 and Sub-programme 5009 – Rural Roads Development – K250,000,000. In the Budget speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, there was an issue that we were going to spend about US$300 million in agriculture to improve our farming blocks.

Mr Chairperson, you may agree with me that the Lundazi Zambia National Service (ZNS) has one of the biggest farms in the Eastern Province and so does the Nyimba ZNS. These are the farms that make money for the country. They do not just consume. We have reduced the budget by K2 million or so. This will affect the operation of many things.

Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Minister in a position to change the figures so that farms like those of the ZNS are improved and enable us to tackle or reduce the dependence on farm produce only from commercial farmers and peasants? These are farms where we can take the people we are sponsoring under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Are we seeing the hon. Minister increasing the funds to the farms being managed by the ZNS?

Mr Chairperson, for me, these farms, if we were to improve them, can do a good job. Are we seeing improved funding this year than what we have given them? With what they have been given, in short, the hon. Minister is just shooting himself in the foot. It is as if he does not want these farms to progress. Is there any way that the hon. Minister can change upwards this money he has given to the ZNS for farming?

Sir, in addition, if the hon. Minister looks at the money that he is giving the ZNS to help out with road rehabilitation, to me, it is not sufficient because a good number of equipment for the ZNS is obsolete.

Sir, are we going to see him buying new equipment from this money he has given it so that instead of us engaging expensive contractors, we may engage the ZNS to help in those remote places, some of which are in his constituency?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, there are two questions. on Page 661, Programme 4169, Sub-programme 5002 – Agriculture and Industrial Production – K75,000,000. Are we going to increase a certain budget line that he mentions? The budget line is the same one that the hon. Member for Lundazi mentioned, which has gone down by K200,000. I said that it is a small decrease, and we should be able to take care of it.

Mr Chairperson, do I see possibilities of increasing this budget line? The answer is no. I am sure the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will not allow me to increase that budget line. However, we will go by what is available.

Mr Chairperson, Sub-programme 5009 – Rural Roads Development – K250,000,000 is reserved for rural roads or feeder roads.Yes, as I said, you can say it is not enough, but it is something to start with. Before we got this K250 million,the amount that was made available for rural roads in 2021 was only K50 million. In 2022, there was no allocation, but now, we have K250 million. We hope it will go a long way to rehabilitate and upgrade some roads. Not to the expectation of all, or 100 per cent expectation, but at least, something will be done. This allocation is only for 2023.We hope, in 2024, to have more money as the economy improves.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on page 655, Table 3, Programme4169, Sub-programme 5002–Agricultural and Industrial Production – K75,000.There is a reduction to this sub-programme. In 2021, it was K72,500,773.In 2022,it was K75,280,606, and next year, the hon. Minister is only proposing K75,000,000. I believe that industrialisation and agriculture is the cornerstoneof our economic diversification and that our defence forces, particularly the Zambia National Service (ZNS), should be the one to take up the so-called Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) for our strategic food reserves. Why is there a reduction?

Mr Chairperson, may I also have clarification on Sub-Programme 5099 – Rural Roads Development– K250,000. Last year, it was not there, and in 20 –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, you can only ask one question. We have to make progress.

Mr Mung’andu: Then I will still come back.

The Deputy Chairperson: No!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, it looks like the hon. Members are not listening. This question is the same one that was posed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi and the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba, and I have already answered it.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Chewe will be the last person to debate, and then, we will make progress.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I think we can make progress.

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us make progress.

Vote 77 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairperson: As I announced earlier, three hon. Members of Parliament from each of the provinces appearing on the Order Paper will debate. The appropriate provincial hon. Ministers will thereafter respond. As usual, there will be one policy statement for all the ten provinces. The Acting Leader of Government Business in the House will issue a combined policy statement for all the ten provinces.

I thank you.

VOTE 88 – (Muchinga Province– K82,245,296), VOTE 90 – (Lusaka Province K131,977,212), VOTE 91– (Copperbelt Province– K111,226,666), VOTE 92 – (Central Province – K109,072,940), VOTE 93 –(Northern Province– K111,752,221), VOTE 94– (Western Province - K119,328,492), VOTE 95 – (Eastern Province– K102,375,167), VOTE 96–(Luapula Province– K106,921,646), VOTE 97 – (North-Western Province– K102,563,027) and VOTE 98 – (Southern Province K113,189,519).

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to present a combined policy statement in support of the 2023 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Office of the President-Provincial Administration, Votes 88, 90 to 98.

Mr Chairperson, I am greatly honoured to present, to this august House,a unified policy statement in support of the 2023 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Office of the President-Presidential Administration.

Mr Chairperson, the mandate of the provincial administration is derived from Article 150 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 and the Government Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2021. This mandate is actualised through the following mission statement:

“To co-ordinate and administer the implementation of national policies and programmes in the province in order to enhance service delivery and promote sustainable development”.

Mr Chairperson, the provincial administration estimates of revenue and expenditure have been prepared in line with the 2023 National Budget whose theme is “Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods” and is anchored on the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP).

2022 Budget Performance

Mr Chairperson, the 2022 budget estimates of revenue and expenditure for the provincial administration was K887.7 million. Of this amount, 76 per cent was allocated topersonal emoluments, while the remaining 24 per cent was for operations and programmes.

Mr Chairperson, under economic transformation and job creation, the provincial administration continues to provide an enabling and supportive environment for industrialisation with focus on value addition in agriculture, mining, manufacturing and tourism sectors.

Mr Chairperson, notable achievements in the year included:

the raising of K108.4 million as non-tax revenue as at 31^st October, 2022, out of the annual projected K137.9 million;
the operationalisation of Mwami One-Stop Border Post in the Eastern Province;
the regularisation and formalisation of artisanal and small-scale mining in Central Province and Copperbelt Province;
the empowerment of youths, women and other vulnerable groups;
the operationalisation of industrial yards;
the promotion of value addition through the construction of fruit processing plants in the North-Western Province and the Eastern Province; and
the construction of a bridge across the Luanginga River in Kalabo and the rehabilitation of the Mongu/Limulunga Road in the Western Province, and the Kafue Hook Bridge in Central Province; and
the rehabilitation and upgrading of Kasama Airport in the Northern Province, among others.

Mr Chairperson, under human and social development, the provincial administration facilitated the recruitment and deployment of 30,496 teachers and 11,276 health workers. In addition, a number of health facilities such as district hospitals are being constructed across the country. Furthermore, the provincial administration facilitated the implementation of the Free Education Policy up to grade 12 and the provision of desks in schools in an effort to cushion the subsequent overwhelming enrolment.

Sir, to increase access to clean and safe drinking water and sanitation services, the provincial administration facilitated the construction and rehabilitation of boreholes in all regions. Additionally, the provincial administration facilitated the improvement of urban water supply and sanitation facilities in the Western Province, the Northern Province, Luapula Province, and Muchinga Province. Furthermore, works on the Kafulafuta Bulk Water Supply Project on the Copperbelt Province have commenced while works on the Kafue Bulk Water Supply Project Phase I in Lusaka Province have been completed.

Mr Chairperson, additionally, social protection programmes were facilitated with improved selection mechanisms. In this regard, about 1 million households were supported with cash transfers across the provinces which have helped to reduce the vicious cycle of poverty, inequality and vulnerability.

Sir, under environmental sustainability, the provincial administration continued to prioritise community-based adaptation and climate risk management initiatives in a bid to address issues of climate change and strengthen natural resources management, especially in the Southern Province, the Central Province and Lusaka Province.

Mr Chairperson, to enhance good governance, the provincial administration has continued with the construction and rehabilitation of staff housing and office infrastructure in different parts of the country. Further, the provincial administration has continued with the orientation and capacity building of Ward Development Committees, the distribution of village registers in various chiefdoms and the facilitation of the formation of chiefdom trusts to enhance inclusiveness and effective participation of citizens in economic activities.

2023 Budget Outlook

Mr Chairperson, the combined 2023 Budget Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Office of the President – Provincial Administration, is K1.1 billion compared to the 2022 Budget of K887.7 million representing an increase of 22.8 per cent. This increase demonstrates the New Dawn Administration’s commitment to ensure improved service delivery in the extent of the Decentralisation Policy. Personal emoluments account for 79 per cent of the K1.1 billion, while 21 per cent is for non-personal emoluments.

Sir, in preparing the 2023 Budget Estimates, the provincial administration focused on the following programmes:

(a) Community Development and Social Services;

(b) Natural Resources Management;

(d) Local Government Services; and

(e) Management and Support Services.

The Community Development and Social Services Programme has been allocated K215.1 million to facilitate the following:

(a) women and youth empowerment;

(b) support to vulnerable households;

(d) promotion of arts and culture; and

(e) support to chiefs and traditional affairs, among others.

Mr Chairperson, the Natural Resource Management Programme has been allocated K153.5 million. This will cater for forest protection and management, rehabilitation and maintenance of boreholes and dams as well as weather forecasting and early warning. The Economic Development Programme has been allocated K153.6 million which will cater for land administration, resettlement scheme development, enforcement of labour laws and maintenance of public buildings.

Sir, regarding Local Government Services, K31.1 million will cater for the supervision of local authorities, spatial planning and development control. Management and Support Services has been allocated K537.003 million which will provide for development coordination, human resource management financial management and publicity of Government programmes.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, the provincial administration will endeavour to contribute to the attainment of the aspiration of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) to actualise the Vision 2030. I, therefore, urge all hon. Members of the House to support the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of the Office of the President – Provincial Administration.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according the people of Isoka an opportunity to add their voice to this Vote, through me.

Sir, the people of Isoka strongly support the budget line for the province which is K82,245,296 although it is not enough. This is the mandated spending agent under eight districts, including Isoka Constituency.

Mr Chairperson, Muchinga Province is the newest province and it needs a lot to be done. Apart from Nakonde and Mpika Districts, the rest of the districts are rural districts such as Isoka, Shiwang’andu, Mfuwe, Chinsali, Kanchibiya and Mafinga.

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

Ms Nakaponda: These districts are missing out on infrastructure, the road network is poor, and district administration offices are not in place in areas such as Kanchibiya and Mfuwe.

Sir, about the road network in our district, especially in Isoka Constituency, there is Mbesuma Road which has been there for quite a long time. We need a bridge. We still have a pontoon and this road connects Mafinga, part of Chama North, Chinsali and Isoka. It connects these districts to Kasama and goes to Luapula, Luwingu and Mporokoso. So, we need funds to be allocated to this Vote so that Mbesuma Road, especially the bridge, can be worked on.

Mr Chairperson, also, we need facilities like schools. In Isoka Constituency, we have Michael Chilufya Sata Girls Secondary School, which is still unfinished. This girl’s school needs to be completed because our girls are still squatting at Isoka Boys Secondary School. As a mother, my heart bleeds when I see my girls being impregnated by pupils at Isoka Boys Secondary School. So, we need to allocate more funds to Muchinga Province so that Michael Chilufya Sata Girls Secondary School can be completed. It was recently funded with about K322,000 but that is not enough. We need more money so that we complete Michael Chilufya Sata Girls Secondary School.

Sir, there are many double-storey buildings in Chinsali District which are unfinished. We need more money so that these buildings can be finished.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Isoka support this Budget line to increase funding to the province. The 2021 Budget was K51,322,930 and in 2022 it was K63,441,958, now in 2023 it will be K82.2 million, but we still need more funds to this province so that many activities can be worked on.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving the good people of Mfuwe an opportunity to contribute to debate on this Vote under discussion.

Mr Chairperson, I will address my concerns to the hon. Minister. I regret to say that in the past one year, Muchinga Province has not seen any tangible development. I will start with the issue of fertiliser distribution. As at now, we have people who are sleeping under trees waiting for fertiliser. I hope the hon. Minister is aware.

Sir, regarding the just ended recruitment exercise, I have also seen that out of the total number of people who have been recruited, only nineteen are from Muchinga Province and this is a concern, hon. Minister. The province is huge and we have so many unemployed youths. Next time, the Government should make sure that it gives us our share.

Mr Chairperson, in the past one year, I have not even seen the Republican President come to Muchinga Province. He only came to officiate at the UkusefyaPang’wena Traditional Ceremony and since then, he has never been. We want the Republic President to also come to Muchinga.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga: He has visited other provinces. I do not even know how many times he has been to the Southern Province, yet, he has not been to Muchinga Province. We would like him to come so that he can appreciate the challenges that Muchinga is facing.

Mr Chairperson, as the hon. Minister may be aware, Muchinga Province has so much potential. Muchinga Province has potential in agriculture. It also has potential in tourism and mining.

Mr Mbao: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbao: Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise this point of order.

Sir, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65 which states that we are expected to give factual information.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Leader of Government Business in the House is from issuing a very power policy statement where he has made it clear that the 34,000 teachers and 11,000 heath workers …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order

Hon. Minister, which Standing Order did you cite?

Mr Mbao: Standing Order No. 65, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson:Now, what is it that has been breached?

Mr Mbao: Sir, what has been breached is that the hon. Member for Mfuwe is saying that for the entire Muchinga Province, only nineteen people were recruited in the exercise. That nineteen includes both teachers and health workers. It is open here. You have heard, Mr Chairperson. Is she in order to mislead herself in the first place, mislead you, the presiding officer, mislead the entire House and the nation at large that only nineteen people came from the entire Muchinga Province? I seek you serious ruling, so that we can put these things in clear perspective. We should not hear such wrong information to mislead others.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member is out of order, …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: … because I heard her loud and clear saying that the province, but now debating while seated, she says in my constituency.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: So, let us avoid misleading ourselves, the nation, including the sub-region.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Member continue.

Ms Mabonga:Thank you very much Mr Chairperson. On this side of the House, we are always out of order.

Mr Chairperson, the number ‘nineteen’ that I was talking about is for the Prisons Service (Zambia Correctional Service) and it is in today’s newspaper. Out of the entire number, we only have nineteen who have been employed under Prisons Service, and that is what I said.

Sir, as regards teacher recruitment, I am on record having asked the hon. Minister to try and see what he could do. The people who were employed in Muchinga Province did not even come from Muchinga Province and I have evidence to that effect. Most of them were brought in from Lusaka or wherever. So, this is a serious concern and if the hon. Minister is serious, he must take this issue seriously. I am speaking on behalf of people of Muchinga Province and this is a complaint that is coming from there.

Sir, I was talking about Presidential visits. We, the people of Muchinga Province, are just wondering why His Excellency the President has not paid us a visit, yet we see him go to other provinces. So, we want him to come. I am using this opportunity to invite him to Muchinga through you hon. Minister, so that he can come and appreciate the opportunities that are there. I know that next year, we will be having an expo –

Mr Nanjuwa: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Another point of order is raised. This is the last point of order I am taking because even if we have suspended certain standard Standing Orders that we should go as far as 2300 hours, we still have to manage time. Besides, the Provincial hon. Minister will be required to respond to all the concerns that are being raised. So, substantive hon. Ministers should take note and where they feel hon. Members of Parliament have gone off the way, they should ensure that they state the Government’s position and address the concerns. So, this is the last point of order I am taking.

Mr Nanjuwa: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise this point of order.

Sir, I stand on a serious point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65 on the hon. Member debating for misleading and for not being factual.

Sir, the hon. Member is claiming that His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema has not been to Muchinga Province when in October, last year, His Excellency the President was in Muchinga Province for the commemoration of the 100^th birthday for the late Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe. Is she in order to mislead herself, the House at the sub-region?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Interjections

Do not debate while seated.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson:The hon. Member currently debating is out of order ...

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson:… for not being factual and for misleading herself. Further, let us desist from issuing such statements, especially things that concern the Head of State. We should not make that office a subject of debate. If you do not have facts, especially regarding the Head of State, you would rather keep quiet. You may continue hon. Member.

Ms Mabonga: Mr Chairperson, thank you for your guidance. Like I said, we are always out order on this other side.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mabonga:Mr Chairperson, the –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Are you trying to challenge the Chair?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson:It is like you are trying to put me into your debate and that is contemptuous. You may continue.

Ms Mabonga: Mr Chairperson, thank you for your guidance.

Mr Chairperson,let me also talk about the challenges that are in Muchinga. As my mother, Hon. Nakaponda stated, Muchinga Province has a poor road network.The Great North Road,especially,and starting from Serenje, is in bad state. We were hoping that in 2023, we would be considered as well. Unfortunately, I have also seen a long list of feeder roads for other provinces. Apart from leaving us out on the main road, the Great North Road, I have seen that a number of roads have been cancelled. I do not know what the hon. Minister is doing about that. They have been cancelled, meaning that even the feeder roads that the provinceshould have benefited from the Government are gone. Therefore, for Muchinga Province, there will be nothing. The hon. Minister knows the state of the roads in Muchinga. He shouldensure that the Government gives us some roads. In my constituency, there is one particular road and it is not even that long. It is about 67 km; that is the Chundaponde. There is also the Muwele Road. Even those two roads are nowhere to be seen.

Mr Chairperson, I appeal to the hon. Minister to look into the issue of the road network in the province. We have seen that our friends in other provinces have been given roads, but for us in Muchinga, even the few that we were apportioned have been taken away. So, I do not know where we are going.

Mr Chairperson, apart from that, the province has poor communication network coverage. Most places have no network when you go to Muchinga, especially my constituency. In places likeMuwele, Chundaponde and Mutinondo, there is no network.So, the hon. Minister should, please, take note of that and ensure that he helps us with network in the area.

Mr Chairperson, there are so many other challenges, but I will go for the ones that I feel need serious and immediate attention. For example, Muchinga is very dark andis not connected to the national electricity grid; most of it, especially my constituency. There is aparticular chiefdom which does not have electricity and that is the area where there is a lot of tourism.There are Black Lechwes and the Shoebill.White tourists come to this area, but there is no network and power. Therefore, the country has lost a lot of revenue because tourists fail to come back after they visit. The place is so nice. I am sure the hon. Member has been there and he knows it.

Mr Chairperson, we also heard, this year and sometime last year,that our friends received a share of boarding schools, in three provinces to be specific. However, Muchingadid not receive any. Lavushimanda District, which is in Mfuwe Constituency, does not even have a single boarding school. I am also using this forum to beg for a boarding school. Just like other speakers said, we are having a number of children falling pregnant and ultimately getting out of school because of the lack of care. They go to school and do not have anyone to care forthem. So, if we have a boarding school in Lavushimandain Mfuwe Constituency, we are going to see a reduction in the number of girls falling pregnant.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I thank you for the opportunity.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Mr Chairperson, let me tell the hon. Minister of Muchinga Province that the Province whose affairs he is presiding over is new and one of the least developed. In short, I am telling the hon. Minister that he has a lot of work to do in that province.

Mr Chairperson, we understand the past one year has been a learning phase for the hon. Minister. We have seen that development has not been much in Muchinga, but we do understand. However, I can tell him that the learning period has passed. What we want to see is development.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Mukosa: Mr Chairperson, yes, a person who does not know that in Muchinga, the road is bad, from Serenje to Mpika and people are failing to pass, will say “Question!”

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa: There was the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, yes, and it did quite a lot. It started working on the road that comes from Nakonde to Chinsali and the progress, so far, is impressive. So, what we want is for the Government that is in power today to continue from where the PF Government left off.

Mr Chairperson, in Chinsali, for example, we want the Government to finish off the construction of the Mbesuma Bridge. There is a lot of under development in the area. In Muchinga, and Chinsali to be specific, there is a contractor who is supposed to work on the Mbesuma Bridge. All that he needs is money to activate the contract. When the Government gives him the money, he is going to work on that bridge.

Mr Chairperson, we want the hon. Minister to work in collaboration with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development so that this road that we are complaining about, which comes from Serenje to Mpika, is done because it is a death trap.

Mr Chairperson, we want the Government to work on the Chama/Matumbo Road and complete its construction. It has been worked on up to some place, but needs to be completed. It can only be completed if the Government releases the finances to the contractor.

Mr Chairperson, the Government also needs to work on the Chinsali/Mpika Road, which is in a bad state. So, the hon. Minister should ensure that he sources for money and works on that road.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister needs to liaise with the hon. Minister of Education, but before he does that, he needs to sit with the Provincial Education Officer (PEO) to establish the accurate number of teachers in the province who are not on the payroll so that they can be put on it. We expect the hon. Minister to do that.

Mr Chairperson, I am concerned about the budget allocation that we have provided in this 2023 budget for chiefs. Under Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, the budget for 2022 was K300,000, but has been reduced to K50,000. However, the hon. Minister and I, coming from the province, know the number of chiefs that we have in the province. Chinsali alone has three chiefs. If he went to Mpika, Shiwang’andu and other districts in the province, he would agree with me that the number of chiefs that we have in the province are many and the K50,000 that has been allocated for all them is not adequate. It can finish on just evacuating one sick person. So, it is not adequate. The hon. Minister should find a way he can come around that situation.

Mr Chairperson, the state of farming in Muchinga Province is concerning. What has happened this year is not good, and we hope that in 2023, it will not happen like that. Our farmers in the entire Muchinga Province received farming inputs late. Further, most of the people who have been in cooperatives have been removed, and people have been sharing fertiliser. So, the hon. Minister should find a way the Government can increase the number of beneficiaries of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Mr Chairperson, we also want the hon. Minister to take a leading role in ensuring that people access cheaper fertiliser. We were told here by my elder brother from Monze that in that area, people were buying fertiliser at K600. However, in Chinsali, fertiliser is being bought at a higher price, same as in Shiwang’andu and other districts in Muchinga Province. People are buying one bag of fertiliser at over K1,000. So, just as people are buying fertiliser at K600 in Monze, we want our farmers in Chinsali, Shiwang’andu, Isoka, Nakonde as well as other districts in the province to access cheaper fertiliser.

Mr Chairperson, Chinsali is the only province that does not have a proper airstrip. The one that is there is old and does not befit an area like Chinsali, which is now a provincial headquarter. We know that some money has been allocated for aerodromes so we want the hon. Minister to lobby for this money, so that the airstrip in Chinsali can be expanded and upgraded.

Mr Chairperson, there are many youths in the province who are languishing in poverty and are unemployed. We want the hon. Minister to start working oncoming up with an economic activity in the province such as the way the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation Limited(ZAFFICO) has come up with a forestry plantation in Shiwang’andu. We want such projects in more districts. The hon. Minister should ask for an industrial yard in Muchinga Province because we want an area where the youths can be performing economic activities from.

Interruptions

Mr Mukosa: Mr Chairperson, I want to tell the hon. Minister that the amount that has been allocated to youth skills and vocational training or youth development in short is not adequate, although it has been increased from K1.3 to K1.5 million. We would prefer to have it increased to a higher amount.

With those few remarks, Mr Chairperson, I end here.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The Minister for Muchinga Province (Mr Sikazwe): Thank you, Mr Chairperson. Let me start with Hon. Mabonga. Yes, the President has been to Chinsali or Muchinga Province and, very soon, he will be coming to visit us. So, I invite him to come so that we can welcome him.

Mr Chairperson, I appreciate Hon. Mukosa’s concern. One thing that we should know is that the provincial administration budget does not cater for big projects. Therefore, our duty here is to make sure that we work on that budget line.

Mr Chairperson, I thank Hon. Nakaponda, whose concerned about Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital. The Government has released some funds, and I am sure she is aware of that and very soon, it will complete the project.

Mr Chairperson, I sincerely thank all hon. Members of Parliament who have ably debated the 2023 Budget Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Vote 88 – Office of the President – Provincial Administration, Muchinga Province.

Mr Chairperson, the people of Muchinga are grateful to the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government for releasing all the 2022 budgeted funds for the provincial administration, for the implementation of programmes and projects. These funds are being channelled to implement various projects and programmes aimed at transforming the socio-economic landscape of the region. The provincial administration is also grateful to the Government for increasing the 2023 budget ceiling for the implementation of programmes and projects by 46 per cent, from K18.7 million in 2022 to K27.3 million in 2023.

Mr Chairperson, as a province, we intend to use the funds proposed to be spent in 2023 to implement activities that will uplift the living standards of the people in Muchinga Province. Some of the programmes and projects to be implemented are aimed at addressing the many developmental challenges still being faced in Muchinga Province, and have been pointed out by hon. Members when they debated.

Mr Chairperson, one of the programmes the provincial administration will implement in the coming year is the hosting of the investment forum in October 2023. The investment forum and expo will provide an opportunity for the region to open its doors to the world for the purpose of showcasing the various investment opportunities the province offers. The provincial administration believes that hosting the expo will result in the industrialisation of Muchinga Province because it is endowed with various natural resources ideal for investment in agriculture, tourism, energy, mining and manufacturing, to mention but a few.

Mr Chairperson, I, therefore, appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from Muchinga Province, to support the developmental efforts of the provincial administration so that together, we can improve the living standards of the people who put us in office.

Mr Chairperson, as pointed out by His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, during his first address to this august House in September 2021, time for politicking is over and we should all work together to address the many challenges we face in our various provinces. My office has an open-door policy. Therefore, I urge all Zambians, particularly those from Muchinga Province, to come on board and offer suggestions on how best we can develop our region. I have no doubt that given the good economic policies of the New Dawn Administration, Muchinga Province is destined for prosperity and will soon be one of the greatest contributors to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of this country.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, allow me to call upon all the hon. Members of Parliament in this august House to support the estimates of revenue and expenditure for the Office of the President, Provincial Administration, Muchinga Province, for the year 2023 amounting to K82.2 million. This amount translates to K54.9 million for personal emoluments and K27.3 million for programmes and projects.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Mrs Chonya.

Interruptions

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: How do you pronounce your name?

Mrs Chonya: Just like that, Chonya, or Mrs Chinyama. Whichever comes first.

Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to say a few things about my province, Lusaka. First of all, I appreciate the leadership that is being provided by our Provincial hon. Minister. She happens to be the only lady among the Provincial hon. Ministers. We, who are under her leadership, can feel the motherhood compared to when we were being looked after by fathers. The difference is noticeable.

Mr Chairperson, coming to developmental issues, I want toflag the issue of roads in most of our townships. I believe the case of Kafue is the same as that of Chilanga and Chongwe. I also pass through Chirundu when I am going to the other side of my constituency, and we need to do something about that area.It is good that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has come on board. For instance, in Kafue, we have procured some equipment that will help us maintain the feeder roads in the rural areas. Tomorrow we will be unveiling our Caterpillar grader bought with CDF money that will go a long way in answering to some of the challenges with regards to our rural roads.

Mr Chairperson, for township roads, we still have a challenge and we need to do something about that because most of the townships I have mentioned did not benefit much from the L400 Road Projectthat was being implemented under the previous Government. So, we hope that the New Dawn Government will also come up with a good robust programme that will look into upgrading most of our township roads to bituminous standard. I think that is one thing that we will be appreciated for in the rural areas.

Mr Chairperson, I know that in the watersector, some of our colleagues within Lusaka maybe having challenges.We also still have challenges, but we have hope because we have received assurance from our good hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation,that something will be done very soon in Kafue to improve the water situation by upgrading the piping system. We will no longer envy the water that used to pass through Kafue and come to Lusaka into Meanwood and other areas. This assurance is very pleasing, at least, for the people of Kafue where we are told that by April 2023, the situation may just become good because, currently, the Government is doing something about it.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue that we can talk about perhaps in Lusakais the need to continuously look at how we will create job opportunities for our youths. I believe Lusaka Province is where we have the highest concentration of youths who have just completed their training in colleges and completed Grade 12. The youths are looking for opportunities to be able to do something so that they are just not roaming the streets. So, the issue of job creation is one of the key pillars in our National Development Plan and, indeed, the Government has a big task in that regard to ensure that something gets done about the youth. Otherwise, it remains a time bomb, if we do not do anything about it.

Mr Chairperson, let me use this opportunity to just appreciate the Government for committing money to complete the resource centre in Kafue.I missed an opportunity to debate the budget on youths where the Government has committed monies to complete the resource centre in Kafue. This is a masterpiece that, in fact, will benefit not only the youths of Kafue, but the entire Lusaka and even from beyond other districts and constituencies because the infrastructure that was lying incomplete for a long time is of a university standard with capacity to bring on board many students who will benefit from the skills that will be offered.

Mr Chairperson, what more with CDF? It means that once our youths are trained from the resource centre, indeed, they will have been capacitated to form cooperatives and companies then being to trade as the businessmen themselves. In the next few years, the narrative will change, at least for Kafue, where we have been crying that all those contracts seem to have been grabbed by people coming from elsewhere in the name of Kafue not having enough capacity. I do not believe that we do not have people in Kafue who can do the works. I am sure that as we refine all these processes, things will look a lot better and we will all be smiling at what our New Dawn Government is trying to do.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I thank you for this opportunity.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Mr Chairperson, thank you so much once again for giving me an opportunity to the people of Mandevu to comment on the developmental programmes for Lusaka Province.

Mr Chairperson, I note that the provincial mandate is to be the secretariat and coordinate the Government policies and implementation of sub-sector ministries within the province. So, in Lusaka Province, I think we have had challenges in the health sector. This year, we allocated K12 billion to the health sector. In particular, K3.7 billion is for medical equipment and medical supplies. This year we allocated K16 billion and K4.7 billion for medicines. However, when you go our hospitals that were built by the previous Government, I always talk about the Government being a going concern; there are no medications in all out hospitals in Lusaka Province, yet we allocated monies towards this function and we are here doing the same for 2023. So, I am appealing to the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province that we step up.

Mr Chairperson, just here at our clinic, there are no medicines. I will not mention the name of the hon. Member who has fallen sick, but he has just been given a prescription. Surely, there is something wrong. We need to improve in this area. This is not politics, it is happening in Lusaka Province where I hail from.

Mr Chairperson, secondly, let me comment about the most economic activity in Lusaka, which is agriculture. I urge the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province to help us coordinate the line Ministry of Agriculture in ensuring that farming implements are delivered on time. Yes, 2021, we got excuses that this was done by the Patriotic Front (PF). The United Party for National Development (UPND) is now in Government for almost two years now, but we have continued to receive excuses in implementing the Government programmes, yet monies are allocated.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister should help us to implement the Farmer Input Support Program (FISP) better so that our people in Rufunsa, Chongwe, Kafue and all the districts in Lusaka Province will be able to farm and produce food for the urban and peri-urban areas of the province.

Mr Chairperson, Mrs Chonya has also spoken about the roads. When you are traveling from the Luangwa Bridge to Chongwe, the road is in a bad state. We have had answers here stating that the road will be done as and when monies will be available, but time is running out. The people give us a mandate of five years, and the second year is finishing. We have three years to go. Are we going to continue giving the people answers, yet the people out there expect solutions from us?

Mr Chairperson, the Provincial Minister, Mwine Chishi, we are supported –

Ms Sefulo: Meaning?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I will give the meaning, but the hon. Minister understands. We come from royalty. Our royal highnesses expect us to deliver in this province and I am glad the hon. Minister is Mwine Chishi. We are the owners of the country. The Lenjes: tuliBenecho, Bene Chishi; the owners of the country and I am glad that the hon. Provincial Minister is from Lusaka. So, we expect development in Lusaka Province. The roads are bad.

Interjections

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, they promised the people that they are going to do things better. I do not want to politicise. Allow me to debate and advocate for development for the people of Lusaka Province.

Mr Chairperson, on employment opportunities, during the recruitment of teachers and nurses, we saw that many numbers went elsewhere because there was a notion that Lusaka Province got a lot of numbers previously.

Mr Chairperson, due to the population in Lusaka, we have the differently abled people who were promised 10 per cent employment and only 1 per cent of this group were employed. We need to create opportunities for this group in Lusaka Province. These people are in numbers because of the huge population in Lusaka. So, this is a message from these people.

Mr Chairperson, in view of the growing population, we need more educational infrastructure. I know that 120 secondary schools will be shared across the country.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hoursuntil 1700 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I will continue emphasising on health services because I know that the hon. Minister of Health also hails from Lusaka Province. She is a daughter of the soil, Benecho and we need to leave an indelible mark because of this privilege that we have to serve the people of Zambia. So, I ask that she improves the services in her ministry.

Mr Chairperson, the other sector I want to talk about is water and sanitation. I think, last week, I talked about the fact that only fourteen per cent of Lusaka is sited on sewerage network. In Mandevu, Kanyama and other urban constituencies, we need to improve the sewer network. This has to be done by the Government.

Mr Chairperson, I support the budget for sports development. We have seen that sports is actually a game changer for our women and youths of all colours. Just the other day, a young man from Ng’ombe, Muzala, won gold at the Olympics and you saw what that did to his life.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: So, we need to allocate more resources in this area. We also need to build a stadium, especially in Mandevu Constituency. I realise that it is the only constituency without a stadium in Lusaka District. Here, I just do not want to lobby for Lusaka District, we need a stadium in Luangwa, Rufunsa and Chongwe.

Mr Mulunda: For what?

Mr Shakafuswa: For sports.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: If you do not want it in Itezhi-tezhi, that is your fault. For us, we want our youths to participate in sports activities so that they can stay away from illicit activities such as drug abuse and early marriages and pregnancies because sports will change their lives.

Mr Chairperson, with these few remarks, I support this budget.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

In the earlier announcement, it was announced that there would be three hon. Members to debate this Vote. One hon. Member from the right has debated and another from the left has also debated. So, the last one will be from the left. We will keep interchanging as we approach provinces. So, the last one will be from the left, who is Mr Sampa and then the hon. Minister will respond.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity. I take the debate by Benechishi as my own. Benechishi is the hon. Member for Mandevu, Hon. Shakafuswa. Well debated my brother. Who also happens to be my former Deputy Mayor. So, we move in pairs.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, I came to learn that the hon. Minister in charge of Lusaka Province, Hon. Sheal Mulyata is actually connected to my late sister who took me to Kalomo. I meant to hammer, but because I have compassion for the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province, I will be very moderate.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, I have looked at the budget for Lusaka Province. Last year, it was K88 million.This time around, it is moving to K132 million and I have tried to see where the money will go to next year. I found that K50million or almost forty per cent of that money is going to management and support services. The District Commissioners’ (DCs) management and all other people management. The money allocated for Lusaka Province is not going where it is needed. Where is the problem in the province as highlighted by the hon. Member for Mandevu? We have two major problems. One is that of roads. The budget for next year for Lusaka Province is very silent on the roads. In Matero, we have the famous Zingalume Road. Trucks get stuck. On minibuses, instead of paying K15, people are charged K20 because of the bad potholes, and nothing is being done about that road.

Mr Chairperson, yesterday, I saw my other colleagues in the province – we do not debate ourselves. Kafue, others were saying everything is fine. The roads are fine. I was in Kafue yesterday, in particular, Lusaka Province rural, kuKapongo, on the way to Sondela Police Training School. That is where I keep a few small animals for myself. The road there is pathetic. It has never been worked on since independence. Do not say why did other Governments not work on the road. That is why the Government is here. It is to own the roads the same way it is owning the Kazungula Bridge that it is doing fine. Well done. That is the way Government works. You inherit the good things as well as the bad things like the roads that have not been worked on. Badala, it is yourselves to take note of that, embrace and own them and not keep referring to the previous Government. So, that road to Sondela in Kafue is very bad. Meanwhile, that is where all the hon. Members and some senior hon. Ministers have tuma farms. They see that road.

Interruptions

Mr Sampa: Rumour has it that–

The Deputy Chairperson: Order hon. Member!

You are a senior Member here. You know that we are not allowed to debate ourselves.

Hon. UPND Member: He is a former mayor.

The Deputy Chairperson: And a former Mayor.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: You can continue with your debate.

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, I am well guided. No greetings today.

Mr Chairperson the next problem in Lusaka is crime. Crime has gone up in Lusaka. For some reason, it is more on the girl child. Just yesterday, one of my nieces was abducted and we were getting phone calls in Lilayi saying send K1,500 to this number, I have been abducted. That game in Lusaka has gone up and I do not know why. With the coming of this United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, crime has gone up.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Sampa: I do not know why. Lusaka Province, help us to curb crime. However, I will tell you why. It is the UPND youths. You have not taken care of them. Empower them. Give them jobs, do not be stingy. Share what you are earning. They put you in power. Now they are doing chifukushi because you are not helping them and so they are harassing the residents of Lusaka.

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Lubozha: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: No points of order, the Chair ruled already.

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minsters –

The Deputy Chairperson: There is a point of order by the hon. …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: … Minister.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, is Hon. Miles Sampa, a very able orator, who has been debating very well, in order to somehow mislead himself? I am basing this point of order on our Standing Order 65 which requires you to tell the truth. Is he in order to be so enthusiastic to start misleading the world through this House that the UPND is not taking care of its youths, thereby inciting them to raise against it?

Is he in order, Mr Chairperson, to be allowed to continue on that trajectory which is absolutely dangerous, false and unnecessary?

Mr Chairperson, is he in order? This enthusiasm is going to cause trouble in this country and we should curtail it or nip it in the bud. Hon. Sampa, I am not going to give you the promise I made to you.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson,I am very disturbed with what he said.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I will not rule on this one because the hon. Minister has debated. However, I want to issue a word of caution. Let us not be incitivein our debate. We should not use this House to gain a bit of political mileage. We know that as politicians, our political fortunes could be diminishing, and we may want to use this House to rekindle them.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us not do that. May the hon. Member continue.

Interruptions

Mr Sampa: I thank you, Mr Chairperson, and I agree. For the hon. Members of Parliament for Luangeni and Chipata Central, political fortunes have diminished ...

Laughter

Ms Mulenga: Yes.

Mr Sampa: ... and completely finished.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, I told you not to put me in your debate or else I would send you out of the House.

Laughter

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, I am much obliged.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

May the hon. Member resume his seat because this was the second warning.

Mr Sampa: I am much obliged, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, wind up debate.

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

Mr Sampa:Nikalibekusiliza.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Sampa: I have not finished debating, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: I warned you. This is the second time.

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, today?

The Deputy Chairperson: Last week, I warned you. So, resume your seat.

Mr Sampa: Sir, we need to debate.

The Deputy Chairperson: I will send you out. Resume your seat.

Mr Sampa: Sir, we are here to speak.

The Deputy Chairperson: No, no, no.

Mr Sampa: I have not finished. I have a debate to finish.

The Deputy Chairperson: I have warned you several times to never –

Mr Sampa: No, but you are the one who attacked me first.

The Deputy Chairperson: How?

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Sampa: No, Sir. I need to finish my debate.

Hon. Government Members: Chase him out.

Rev. Katuta: No, we were elected to represent people.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, I have curtailed your debate. Resume your seat.

Mr Sampa: No, Sir. We are here to speak. I will finish. I have obeyed what you have told me.

Sir, you were participating in the debate.

The Deputy Chairperson: Ah!

Hon. Government Members: Help him to go out and leave the House.

Ms Mulenga: Leave him alone.

The Sergeant-At-Armsapproached Mr Sampa.

Mr Sampa:Muzanitengabwanji?

Interruptions

Mr Samparefused to leave the House.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of procedure, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I will take the point of order from Hon. Kampyongo. Sergeant-at-Arms, ensure that the hon. Member leaves the House.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, on a procedural point of order.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Mulenga:Imwe ma elected Members aya naimwe.

Hon. Government Member: Sit down!

Mr Mung’andu:Iwe, you are a new hon. Member. You do not even know how Parliament operates.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, your orders are to be respected, and with your indulgence, I suggest that the measure that is being taken now is premature –

Hon.PF Members: Yes.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, may you resume your seat.

Mr Mposha: On a point of procedure.

Mr Kampyongowasstill standing.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, may you resume your seat.

Mr Mposha:Iwe, you want to challenge the Speaker?

The Deputy Chairperson: Sergeant-At-Arms, if he has resisted, we will deal with it administratively and very firmly.

Hon. Minister, respond to your debate.

Hon. PF Members: Do not go. Sit!

Mr Sampa left the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. PF Members and one Hon. Independent Memberleft the Assembly Chamber.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let us make progress. Hon. Minister, continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulyata: Mr Chairperson, I thank you sincerely for according me this opportunity to present to this august House the policy statement in support of the 2023 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Head 90 – Office of the President – Lusaka Provincial Administration. I also thank all the hon. Members of Parliament who debated.

Sir, I assure them that the Lusaka Provincial Administration is on top of things. We are going to do it. Nifwetuleteka. We are in power.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulyata: Mr Chairperson, the provincial administration budget has been developed in line with his Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema’s speech during the ceremonial opening of the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly with the theme, “Working Together towards Socio-Economic Transformation in Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods.” My statement will focus on the mandate, key achievements in the implementation of the 2022 budget and focus areas for 2023.

Budget Performance and Key Achievements

Mr Chairperson, some of the key achievements in 2022 include:

opening up7km of access roads under the Yapite Resettlement Scheme in Luangwa District and 8km of access roads in the Mpashya Scheme in Rufunsa District;
implementing the social cash transfer programme with 51,016 beneficiaries at the end of September 2022 by Hon. D. Mwamba;
empowering 271 co-operatives and youth clubs financially supported under the youth agricultural and multi-sectoral empowerment programmes; and
training 1,012 youths in various life skills for sustainable livelihoods.

Budget Overview and Key Focus Areas

Mr Chairperson, the 2023 budget for the Lusaka Province has been prepared in line with the four thematic areas of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP). In 2023, the province has been allocated K132 million as compared to the 2022 budget allocation of K90 million.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulyata: This represents an increase of 46.8 per cent. Of this allocation, K110 million is meant for personal emoluments, representing 83.6 per cent of the provincial budget while K21.7 million, representing 16.4 per cent, is meant for the various programmes to be implemented in the province in 2023.

Mr Chairperson, some of the key programmes to be implemented in 2023 are as follows.

Mr Chairperson, to enhance economic transformation and job creation, the province in 2023 has allocated K26.8 million towards:

the provision of cadastral survey services;
the development of resettlement schemes;
the promotion of industrial harmony and enforcement of labour laws; and
the maintenance of public infrastructure and promotion of entrepreneurship.

Mr Chairperson, to enhance human and social development, an amount of K29.8 million has been provided to cater forthe following:

adult literacy and capacity building of women groups;
enhanced social protection;
child protection and development support to child and aged-headed households;
empowerment of juveniles in correction services;
continuation of youth empowerment and skills training programmes; and
improving access to quality water and sanitation.

Mr Chairperson, in order to implement programmes related to environmental sustainability, the province has allocated K20.1 million meant to cater for forest protection and management, development and management of water resources, and the supervision of the provision of water and sanitation services in the province.

Mr Chairperson, to promote a good governance environment, the province has allocated K55.2 million to spatial planning and development control, co-ordination of the implementation of Government policies and development programmes in the province, and various human resource management programmes and investment promotion.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, the province will, through a multi-sectoral approach to service delivery, continue to co-ordinate the departments, institutions and spending agencies in the province. Through concerted efforts, we will work towards improving the economic development of the province and we will play a critical role in contributing to job creation and improved livelihoods in Zambia. I now ask this august House to support the 2023 Budget for Lusaka Province.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Mr Chairperson, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on Vote 91 – Copperbelt Province.

Mr Chairperson, as I start to make comments, I assure the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province that I, as Member of Parliament who hails from the Copperbelt Province, will support him in his endeavour to make the lives of the people on the Copperbelt better.

Hon. Government Members:Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu:Mr Chairperson, first of all, I do not agree that we must allocate K111 million to the Copperbelt Province. Why? We all know that the Copperbelt has built Zambia, but today, it is on its knees. Therefore, we have every responsibility to ensure that the pot from which we all fed from is taken care of. We have been lamenting that Zambia built South Africa. Northern Rhodesia, Southern Rhodesia and Nyasaland built South Africa, but very little is talked about with regard to the contribution we made for South Africa to be what it is, and that is the story of the Copperbelt today. The Copperbelt is on its knees. Therefore, our expectation, as a people on the Copperbelt, is that the Government should have allocated enough resources to the province. Deliberate steps should have been taken to ensure that we return the dignity that the Copperbelt deserves.

Mr Chairperson, let me mention that having served at the district administration before, the biggest problem we have in our country is sharing the resources. The monies that we allocate in this Parliament all sit in Lusaka, yet the implementing agencies are all in the provinces and districts. The monies we appropriate here in Parliament should sit in the provinces and not in Lusaka because the people who implement all the ministries’ programmes are in the provinces and subsequently in the districts.

So, I want to tell the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province that when money is sent to the province, it must not sit at the province. It must go to the districts because that is where the implementation takes place. So, we hope that next time the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning comes up with a Budget, he will give money to the provinces as opposed to giving it to ministries because they do not do anything other than provide a supervisory role. Why not take money to where the implementation takes place, which is in the provinces and districts?

Mr Chairperson, the other thing is that I know that in attaining development, different stakeholders are involved. Yes, the Government plays its role. We were advocating for the Government to put more money in the hands of the people, and we commend it for doing that. The first step it has taken is to take money to the constituencies through theConstituency Development Fund(CDF). The same way the Government has done with the CDF, we expected money to be moved from ministries down to the provinces, and from the provinces, down to the districts.

Mr Chairperson, development is attained not only from the Government’s perspective and some stakeholders are critical in attaining development such as the private sector. The Copperbelt literally thrives on the private sector, but the private sector on the Copperbelt is dead. It looks like all the cries we are making are falling on deaf ears. Yes, we know that the Government has certain plans on how it wants to deal with the Copperbelt, but it is not speaking to us. There are no timeframes on what measures it is placing on record to deal with Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines (MCM). We may sound like broken records, because every time we stand up, we talk about KCM and MCM. However, the Government must know that we are emphasising this point because there is no life on the Copperbelt without MCM and KCM. If people were listening, we could have been given timelines on what intervention is being employed to deal with the issue of the Copperbelt.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province is aware that most of the districts are becoming ghost towns. Luanshya used to be a ghost town, but now, it is most towns. There is nothing to talk about Mufulira, Chingola, including Chililabombwe, where the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development comes from. Sadly, in my constituency, in Kitwe, we see young boys looting goods from moving vehicles, and sometimes we sit and do not do anything because we have nothing to tell them. The sad reality and what we are seeing is that there is hunger in the communities. Ala abantubalechula, people are suffering. The more we remain quiet, the more things are getting worse.

Mr Chairperson, I just want to place on record that we are ready to hold hands with the hon. Minister to ensure that we uplift the wellbeing of the people on the Copperbelt. They deserve better because they have done so much for Zambia to be where it is today. We now need to look at all the opportunities that are available. I, again, emphasise that we will not build or rebuild the Copperbelt with the resources we are allocating in the budget. Our consolation is that the private sector can thrive if only we can oil it.

Mr Chairperson, the other consolation we can fall on is the CDF even though its distribution process has been chaotic. If anybody here is assuring himself/herself that the CDF is happening, it is not happening. How can we sit with 75 per cent of money in the bank account, yet we cannot not even attend to emergencies in our constituencies? If I were Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, my priority would have been to go and shake up the councils because they are failing us.The hon. Minister should go to Kitwe and see how many projects we have implemented with the 2022 CDF allocation. Nothing! How can we have money sitting in the banks while our people are yearning for development? Who is benefitting? The banks are benefitting. All these are problems that we are creating for ourselves.

Sir, if this avenue fails, like the mines are failing, let us go back to where we can get help. The CDF is there, but it is slowly becoming like a scam. All of us in here know that it is seemingly becoming or looking like a scam, yet money is there. What is the problem? Why have we failed to address the grey areas? It would have consoled some of the problems that our people are facing. Businessmen from the Copperbelt have run away because there is nothing to fall back on. The CDF could have supplemented the gap.

Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr B. Mpundu: We are ready to work and stand with the Minister for the Copperbelt, but let him listen to our cries. It is not too much to ask that he shakes up the councils. It is not too much to ask that he gives us a timeframe around what they are doing with Mopani Copper Mines and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM).

Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: About what?

Laughter

Hon. Government Member: Resume your seat!

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, I rarely stand on points of order. I am listening to the debater today saying the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a scam when this is the first Government in the history of this Parliament to do what it could to decentralise the money and increase it from K1.6 million to K25.7 million and now to K28 million in this Budget. He is debating very well, but how can he call it a scam when he is looking at the administration that the Government found? Is he in order to call it a scam instead of calling it the scam of the administration that was found? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Member withdraw the word scam and replace it with another word.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, the correct context in which I used the word scam was that it was looking like it is a scam.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr B. Mpundu: That is English. Saying that it is looking like it is a scam does not mean it is a scam. If you argue with those facts, Hon. Muchima is on record complaining about the non-activity of the CDF in his constituency and he is a Minister. How can he argue when I say it is looking like it is a scam? It does not mean it is a scam but that it is beginning to look like a scam. How can you have money and yet you cannot spend it? That is the simple meaning of this, unless you want me to speak in Bemba.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Samakayi: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr B. Mpundu: You also want to rise? On what do you want to rise on?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon Members, there is one thing I want to advise on. In this Parliament, there is a way we should speak.

Scam is unparliamentary. It is a confrontational word and that is why I said you should withdraw the word, in a polite way. You should have just withdrawn the word, my brother.

Mr B. Mpundu: No!

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Samakayi: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mpundu rose.

The Deputy Chairperson: May you resume your seat, hon. Member.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, okay, I withdraw the word ‘scam’.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Chooya.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Chairperson, I like the way you pronounce my name as “Chuweya”. My name is pronounced as Chi-bu-ye.

The Deputy Chairperson: Chibuye.

Mr J. Chibuye: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

Sir, let me begin by sincerely thanking you for according the people of Roan Constituency an opportunity to add a voice to Vote 91 – Provincial Administration – Office of the President – Copperbelt Province.

Mr Chairperson, let me begin, like my counterpart from Nkana Constituency, by assuring the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt Province. I know him as a very quiet person, but I know that he is an action-oriented person. I assure him that the people of Roan Constituency also stand with him in ensuring that he delivers and leaves the Copperbelt Province better than he found it.

Sir, the K111,226,666 that has been allocated to the Copperbelt Province is not sufficient looking at the various challenges that the province is grappling with. The provincial administration places its focus on quite a number of issues, which include infrastructure development, resettlement schemes and water development.

Mr Chairperson, I am glad that in the policy statement, the Leader of Government Business in the House mentioned the Kafulafuta Project that has been kick started. We are proud and happy with the pronouncements by the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation that the Government has released some funds to ensure that the contractor for the Kafulafuta Water Project gets back to work. This will ensure that the constituencies that will benefit from this project, namely Mpongwe, Masaiti, Luanshya Central, Roan, Kabushi and Bwana Mkubwa will have no challenges in terms of water.

Mr Chairperson, it is also worth noting that the people of Roan, Luanshya, Kabushi, Kwacha and probably even Nkana constituencies have been faced with big challenges in terms of faecal matter due to sewer network problems. We look forward to the hon. Minister being on top of things to ensure that the issue of sewer problems, especially in Roan Constituency, becomes a thing of the past and does not persist beyond next year.

Sir, let me also mention that in terms of natural resources management, which has been allocated K14,526,139, we want to ensure that the little forests that are remaining are not encroached on. Additionally, K13,141,321 has been allocated to economic development which includes K4,014,614 towards land administration.

Sir, let me bring to the hon. Minister’s attention that we have a very big challenge in Maposa area. I am sure he is aware that thousands of acres of land were sold to one person when the people have been staying on that land since time immemorial. We want him to come to their aid and ensure that they are given titles. Let the resettlement area move into the Maposa and Kalende areas and other forests that are affected to ensure that people start getting their title deeds.

Mr Chairperson, K1,132,462 allocated towards agriculture is very little money to talk about. I also want to acknowledge that K4,315,413 that has been allocated towards labour and industrial services to conduct labour inspections is also not enough. There are a number of illegal mining activities taking place in the province. We need the department in charge of labour to be on its toes. We need it to be reinforced in terms of transport and human resource so that it can ensure that all these things are worked on.

Sir, let me come to something that touches my heart the most in Luanshya. The hon. Minister has stayed in Luanshya. Let me passionately appeal to him to look at the road infrastructure in our province, especially Luanshya. I know that many constituencies in his province are facing the same challenges. It is appalling to have waste rock brought into the central business district (CBD) as a patching up solution. We are bringing weapons into the CDB. We as Members of Parliament are appealing to the hon. Minister to help us look at the road that comes from Kapindula up into the first class and Figo Road. The hon. Minister should also help us work on the industrial road in Luanshya and help us, as he is engaging the line ministries, to ensure that the Kapindula/Roan/Mpatamatu Road is also worked on.

Mr Chairperson, the other thing that I want to bring to the hon. Minister’s attention is one road which is of economic value and it is the Masangano/Luanshya Turn Off to the CBD road. The road has economic value and we shall be on his doorstep to encourage him to engage his colleagues in line ministries to ensure that road is worked on. The road can help lift the heavy load off the Ndola/Masangano Road because it is a bypass road that could see vehicles carrying goods that are coming from Tanzania, South Africa and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) going to the mining industry use that road. Once the hon. Minister does that, he will help us in walking with our heads high.

Mr Chairperson, as regards infrastructure development, I passionately appeal to the hon. Minister to find time to visit Roan Police Station. I know that this problem is not only in Roan, but I want to make mention here and ask the hon. Minister to come and see where his officers are staying. Maybe, he will be moved to engage other line ministries to see how best we can take care of our men and women in uniform, especially at Roan Police Station.

Mr Chairperson, I repeat that, indeed, we shall walk with you and ensure that we succeed because your success is our success.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on this Vote.

Sir, I sincerely thank the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province for his very able leadership in the province. I thank him particularly for the role he has played in ensuring that the Kafulafuta Water Project is revived. I have been with you on some of these errands to see to it that that this project comes to fruition. You have played a pivotal role by urging the Government to ensure that the Kafulafuta Water Project comes to fruition and continues to alleviate some of the water challenges being faced in the province.

Once again, in 2022, the Copperbelt Province has seen the construction of two district hospitals one of them in Chifubu Constituency that started in March this year and it is destined for completion in March, 2023. The other one is Ganerton in Kitwe. These projects would not have started, particularly in Chifubu, without the intervention of the hon. Minister because of the land encumbrances where we were building. However, with the Permanent Secretary’s help and the hon. Minister, who played a pivotal role in ensuring that this project is kept on and so, it should be completed in the next three to four months.

Mr Chairperson, once again, I also thank the hon. Minister for the role he has played in ensuring that the Kasumbalesa Border Post is decongested by advocating for the re-opening of the Sakanya Border Post around Chifubu Constituency that is now seeing about 250 trucks crossing into the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). However, my only humble appeal to the hon. Minister is that the Ndola/Mufulira Road should immediately be worked on to enable out trucks to pass. The Government should also consider erecting a toll gate on that road so that it can start earning revenue from the toll fees.

Sir, another humble request I wish to make is that currently, Lusaka is congested because the past regime transferred all head offices of companies to Lusaka. The Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (Zamtel)for instance, was transferred and everything was transferred. My humble appeal is that let us take the head offices of some of the parastatal companies back to the Copperbelt and decongest Lusaka so that we can give economic life to the people of the Copperbelt.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha: I am appealing to the Office of the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt Province to take back the Zamtelhead office to the Copperbelt.Once again, I thank the hon. Minister.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha: Mr Chairperson, I also wish to touch on the issue of land. The Copperbelt Province sits on minerals and at some point, the population of the Copperbelt was so small to the extent that most of the land was turned into a forest. Today, the population is growing and the forests that are there are currently sitting on minerals. My humble appeal to the hon. Minister is that he should find time to have a discussion with his counterpart in the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment so that we can degazette these forests and pave way for mining activities and development on the Copperbelt. This should be done with immediate effect to enable us to bring back economic life to the Copperbelt.

Sir, most of the councils on the Copperbelt are confronting issues to do with land illegality, encroachments and double allocations. Just as he did on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I want the hon. Minister to go back and work with his counterpart in the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources and sit with the councils and digitise and computerise council records so that everything is online to avoid double allocations and illegality in as far as land allocation is concerned on the Copperbelt. Hon. Minister, we want this to be done in 2023 in order to revamp the Copperbelt because we want the Copperbelt to be the most resplendent, exuberant, wonderful and above all, fascinating province in our country.

Hon. Opposition Member:Hear, hear!

Mr Lubozha: This is what we want to see on the Copperbelt. Once again, I urge the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt to up his game. He only did it once. Why only once? We want it done twice or even thrice. We want to see him do what he did on the issue of the CDF when he called all councils and all DCs because that was a step in the direction. Thereafter, we saw that things started moving. The hon. Minister must, please, keep his whip and whip these people in the councils so that our CDF –

Sir, I agree with the hon. Member that for Nkana, Hon. Mpundu, who said that yes, we are have money in the CDF Accounts in councils, but things are not working. For example, I had asked the council to procure the desks for my constituency, but, it took three months just to procure the desks. This in itself shows how these people are trying to frustrate the efforts of the His Excellency the President in some of the parastatals and other government departments. Indeed, this falls under the hon. Minister’s responsibility and so, he must be a man with a big whip.

Mr Mpundu:Namupya!

Mr Lubozha: Once again, I urge the hon. Minister, who is part of Cabinet, to ensure that that our roads on the Copperbelt, which are in a deplorable state, are worked on. Township roads need to be worked on. I know that the Government has plans for the Ndola/Lusaka Road, but please, let it expedite the process and start working on the Ndola/Lusaka Road because there are many accidents, delays and the road itself is in a deplorable condition.

Sir, there are many trucks on the Ndola/Mufulira Road going into the DRC. Please, this road must also be worked on. When that is done, it will be the pride of the Copperbelt. We also heard something about the Chibuluma Road. We need to work on the Chibuluma Road to ensure that those boys and girls who are jumping on trucks and stealing things from these trucks become a thing of the past and this falls under the hon. Minister’s jurisdiction.

Sir, with these few words, allow me to thank the chairperson for according me this opportunity to stand on the Floor of this House of honour, dignity and decorum.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpundu:Naupya!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister for Copperbelt Province (Mr Matambo): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this chance to speak about the Estimates of Expenditure for the Office of the President, Vote 91 – Copperbelt Province.

First of all, I thank the following hon. Members of Parliament: Hon. Mpundu, Hon. Chibuye and Hon. Lubozha for standing with us and saying that they will give us support because that is what we need because Copperbelt Province belongs to all of us.

Mr Chairperson, at least, for the first time, I appreciate someone agreeing with the New Dawn Administration and his Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, that the Copperbelt Province was given a raw deal for the fifteen years that the Patriotic Front (PF) was in power. From 2006 to 2021, the Copperbelt was run by the PF. So, it being on its knees, like Hon. Mpundu mentioned, shows that the people who were running it did not care about its people.

Mr Chairperson, let me tell Hon. Mpunduthat we have a focused President who wants to walk his talk, and has managed to do several things in one year and three months. Most of the promises that he made to the people of the Copperbelt have been achieved. At least, the people of the Copperbelt can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Mr Chairperson, let me sayto Hon. Mpundu that it is true when he talks about infrastructure; thatfor the fifteen years which the PF was in office, it thought Lusaka was Zambia. Ashe said,the Copperbelt is the engine of the economy of this country. If you go to the Copperbelt, you might think that there was a war, but there was no war. The roads are all in bad shape.

Mr Chairperson, let me encourage the people of the Copperbelt. Starting with the Ndola/Lusaka Road, I think they have seen that the New DawnAdministration has put things together and, very soon, a contractor will be announced to work on it.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Matambo:Mr Chairperson, the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road has already been given to a contractor who, I think, will move on site, very soon. We will have a good road from Chingola to Kasumbalesa,including a modernised border post at Kasumbalesa.

Mr Chairperson, for the much talked about Chibuluma Road in Nkana Constituency, I am sure all of us have seen the advert. Very soon, it will also be given to contractor.I am reliably informed that the contractor will do a concrete road, for the first time in the history of this country.

Mr Chairperson, when you talk about the Mufulira/Ndola Road,we are all aware that a lot of money was spent on that road by the previous Government, but it is still the same. We have seen an advert also where a contractor will be given to work on the Mufulira/Ndola Road up to Mokambo, including modernising the Sakanya Border.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matambo: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Chibuye talked about the Fisenge/Masangano Road. I am in constant talks with my counterpart, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, and I am reliably informed that the Lusaka/Ndola Road will also cater for Masangano/Fisenge, and Fisenge into Luanshya. So, that, as well,will be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matambo: Mr Chairperson, he talked also about issues to do with the town centre in Luanshya. I was in Luanshya three days ago to meet chiefs. I am reliably informed that private funds, including part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), will be used to work on the town centre, but also, the same Masangano/Fisenge Road, into Luanshya, will handle the town centre. So, Luanshya will never be the same again under the leadership of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema.

Mr Chairperson, when you talk about water reticulation, Mpongwe, Luanshya, Ndola and Masaiti will also be okay in the next few months because the Kafulafuta Dam is all about all these towns. So, to the people of all these towns mentioned, I want to announce that water is life and they will have clean water twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, very soon.

Mr Chairperson, hon. Members also talked about the delay of the CDF. Yes, I also had a problem. So, I went to the trouble of summoning all the councils to explain why the money which was put in the account for almost a year was not being used. There were two things which we discovered when we had that meeting. One of the issues was that some hon. Members of Parliament where not as active as others. The other issue was that there where those bottle necks which where there when it came to the disbursement which, I think, the New Dawn Administration is trying to do away with. In short, all the issues on the Copperbelt will be sorted out.

Mr Chairperson, as regards the private sector, you saw the President sign a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with his counterpart from the democratic Republic of Congo. We will have a factory that will be making electric batteries on the Copperbelt.

Mr Chairperson, there is a mine opening up called Mimbula Mine in Chingola, on the Copperbelt.

Sir, I have been having several meetings with the chamber of commerce and private companies. There are several companies that will be coming on the Copperbelt, very soon.

Mr Chairperson, why did we have a situation where companies were closing down and running away? It is the political will. There was a break down in law and order. There was violence on the Copperbelt and, at some point, it was referred to as Beirut. However, now, we have tried our best to bring law and order on the Copperbelt and create an enabling environment whereby all investors are destined for the province, this time around.

Mr Chairperson, the 2023 budget for the Copperbelt Province is K111,226,666. Compared to the 2022 budget, which was K91,858,089, this represents a 22 per cent increment. For the 2023 Budget, K89,168,007 accounts for personal emoluments with K22,580,659 being non-personal emoluments and K4,622,000 is allocated to appropriation in aid programmes.

Mr Chairperson, the 2023 Budget Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Provincial Administration will focus on areas that promote efficiency in public service delivery as well as raise revenue for the Government. Furthermore, focus will be placed on implementing programmes meant for the enhancement of the wellbeing of the citizens of the Copperbelt.

Mr Chairperson to support that, K1,606,618 has been set aside for the rehabilitation and maintenance of Government buildings. Additionally, a K550,000 has been allocated to district administrations to support decentralisation, which Hon. Mpundu talked about. Furthermore, a K1,060,000 has been set aside to purchase office equipment. In short, of course, we are going to have the so-called decentralisation. Even if the amount is not that big, we have started that journey of decentralisation.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, the Provincial Administration will continue to effectively and efficiently undertake its mandate of co-ordinating, planning, monitoring, implementing and evaluating developmental programmes aimed at attaining sustainable development on the Copperbelt Province.

Mr Chairperson, I also salute and thank His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema, for changing the negative narrative of the Copperbelt Province from a place where we used to have violence to a peaceful province. Where we used to have the worst currency, we now have the most powerfully performing currency in the world. Where the growth of the economy went into negative, it is positivethis time around, in just one year.

Mr Chairperson, in short, His Excellency is walking the talk and I assure the people of the Copperbelt that after five years of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema’s rule, the Copperbelt will never be the same again.

Mr Chairperson, with this, I urge this House to support the Budget for Vote 91 – Copperbelt Province.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

______

The House adjourned at 1803 hours until 0900 hours on Wednesday, 14^th December, 2022.

___________

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