Wednesday, 30^th November, 2022

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

The House met at 1430 hours

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR KANG’OMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR KAMFINSA, ON MR MPOSHA, HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, ON THE COLLAPSED SEWER LINE IN NDEKE

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I am grateful, once again, for allowing me to stand on this matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134, directed at the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam Speaker, in an area called NdekeChangachanga, in Kamfinsa Constituency, the sewer line that takes sewer out of the township has collapsed in a certain section1. The report that I received from the area councillor, which has been confirmed by the residents, is that sewer water is mixing with the water that is used by people not only for drinking but also for cooking and washing.

It is a very strange phenomenon, Madam Speaker, –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, just state the matter of urgent public importance. Do not debate. Just state the matter so that we make progress.

Mr Kang’ombe: Thank you very much for your guidance. I basically meant to clarify so that the hon. Minister understands the problem fully.

Madam Speaker, I direct the matter at the hon. Minister because the issue of sewer water mixing with water affects the healthcare of your people and it affects the quality of water that will be drank.

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker, because this matter needs the urgent attention of the Government.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Unfortunately, the matter does not qualify. So it is not admitted. I am sure the hon. Minister is aware and he is going to take steps about that issue.

Can we make some progress, we have a lot of work to do. We will start with the Notice of Motion. The way we will proceed because of the number of items that we have on the Order Paper is as follows: After the mover of the Motion, the Motion will be seconded. Then I will give time to two hon. Members of the Patriotic Front (PF) to support, one hon. Member from the United Party of National Development (UPND) to oppose, then the Independents –

Hon. Members: Oppose?

Madam Speaker: Sorry, let me just give guidance. From the UPND –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Did I say the PF?

Hon. Members: You said oppose!

Madam Speaker: Okay, let me put it this way. The movers of the Motion will be given two hon. Members to debate, the opposers of the Motion, one, and the Independents, whether they are opposing or supporting, will be given a chance also. After that, the hon. Minister will provide the response and then we will wind up. So, that is how we will proceed.

So, may I have an indication of the hon. Members who are going to debate.

Thank you for your co-operation.

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MOTION

ASSIST SMALL-SCALE FARMERS WITH MAIZE EXPORT

Mr Mtayachalo(Chama North): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that in addition to buying maize for strategic reserves, this House urges the Government to assist small-scale farmers in co-operatives to export maize through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA).

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, let me begin by thanking you profoundly for giving me this rare opportunity to raise this very important and non-controversial Motion, which seeks to urge the Government to assist our small-scale farmers in exporting maize.

The essence of this Motion, Madam Speaker, is to promote the growth of the small-scale agriculture sub-sector by ensuring that farmers maximise profits from their maize production. This will enable them to improve productivity and graduate to medium and large-scale farmers. In doing so, they will not only be improving their livelihood but also contributing more to national economic development, job creation and poverty reduction.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I would like to underscore the fact that small-scale farmers are very important to Zambia’s agriculture sector, as they account for a higher percentage in terms of production field and output. Through their production, they substantially contribute to the entire agriculture output.

Madam, to emphasise the aforesaid, you may wish to note that small-scale farmers are the main suppliers of maize to the FRA, an institution which is mandated to manage strategic food reserves for the country. Based on the aforementioned, it is undebatable that small-scale farmers are the ones feeding the nation and are vital to food security in the country. In this regard, their plight should be a top priority for the Government and other relevant stakeholders.

Madam Speaker, notwithstanding the highlighted contribution, small-scale farmers have largely remained undeveloped and have failed to graduate to medium and large-scale farmers in terms of their production and productivity. This is because successive Governments have subdued the price of maize by ensuring that it is not cost-reflective for political expedience, to the detriment of small-scale farmers. In addition, small-scale farmers have lacked access to alternative, lucrative and competitive markets for their maize, which negatively affects their profitability.

Madam Speaker, allow me to emphasise that the majority of our small-scale farmers grow maize, which is not only the staple food in Zambia but also widely consumed in Africa and across the globe in various forms. According to Mordor Intelligence, an organisation that monitors market trends, Africa consumes about 30 per cent of the total maize produced globally despite contributing only 7 per cent to the total production.

Madam, meanwhile, global cereal demand in 2020 was estimated at 2.1 billion metric tonnes, with wheat outstripping maize. However, for the first time, it is indicated that there will be a major shift in the global cereal demand for maize at 852 million metric tonnes as compared to wheat at 760 metric tonnes. This entails that the commodity is in higher demand within the African continent and beyond. For instance, in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), the price of maize for a 50 kg bag was K450 in 2021. In the same year, the average price in Kenya and Zimbabwe of a 50 kg bag of maize was K380 and K400 respectively.

It is expected that maize will continue to fetch a premium price on the international market. If our small-scale farmers are assisted to export maize to markets that have such high prices, they will maximise their profits. In turn, they will be able to acquire the necessary inputs to improve their productivity and graduate into medium and large-scale farmers. This would easily enable the Government to remove farmers from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) after three years, as was initially intended.

Madam Speaker, the fact that our farmers are still subjected to low prices, as determined by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), means that they are not able to make profit and are not motivated to improve their productivity. This situation forces the Government to continuously spend colossal sums of money to subsidise the same farmers over and over again, without getting significant benefit.

Madam Speaker, it is in view of the above that we find it prudent that our farmers be assisted to access competitive markets so that they can maximise their profits and be able to reinvest for improved output.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the fact that the Government has liberalised the trade market for maize and all farmers are allowed to export their maize to any market, either local or international. However, what we ought to consider is that most of our small-scale farmers lack the capacity to facilitate the sale of their maize to the nearest local markets, let alone international markets.

Madam Speaker, through this Motion, therefore, we are urging the Government to utilise the same modalities used when procuring maize for strategic reserves to collect extra maize above the strategic reserve targets for the purpose of selling it on behalf of farmers at competitive international market prices.

Madam Speaker, currently, we have a situation where the FRA buys maize at a low price from our farmers and exports it at a higher price. After paying farmers for the maize supplied, the profit accrues only to the FRA. What we are proposing, therefore, is that once the FRA meets its strategic reserves target by buying maize at the local price, the extra maize from farmers who belong to co-operatives should be exported on their behalf and proceeds paid to farmers after deducting fees for logistics.

Madam Speaker, I am also aware that there may be concerns that adopting and putting in place measures to implement the proposal of this Motion may jeopardise food security in the country. To allay such fears, the Government can put up a mechanism whereby the FRA can only be allowed to export maize once it has reached its target for strategic reserves.

In this regard, to guard against the farmers who may want to hold on to their maize, a policy could be put in place where the FRA only exports maize on behalf of the farmers who would have sold a certain percentage of their maize for strategic reserves at a determined floor price. This would be a win-win situation in that farmers would be encouraged to produce more maize, sell a certain percentage to the FRA for strategic food reserves and export the rest for maximum profit. Ultimately, we would be able to see growth among small-scale farmers and the elimination of their perpetual dependence on the Government for farming inputs. In addition, this would be in line with the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) which aims to, among others, promote agricultural productivity and enterprise development through enhancing access to regional and international markets.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to reiterate that the small-scale farmers are very important in the agricultural sector and the economy at large. They offer a sure way of creating sustainable employment and reducing poverty. However, most of them, if not all of them, lack the capacity to export maize to lucrative markets as briefcase buyers flood rural areas to buy maize at cheap prices. In turn, they make super profits at the expense of the poor rural farmers. As a result, farmers perpetually use outdated methods of farming. Therefore, it is important that they are assisted to export maize to the best markets in order to increase their profits. Doing this would empower them financially and reduce their dependence on the Government for farming inputs. Eventually, they could be able to graduate into medium and large-scale farmers with increased contribution to national economic development, employment creation and poverty reduction.

Madam Speaker, in this regard, I would like to urge all my hon. Members in this House to support this non-controversial and progressive Motion, which is going to change the lives of our small-scale farmers.

With these few remarks, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Kang’ombe: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I am grateful to you for allowing me to make a few comments as well as support the proposal that has been moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North.

Madam Speaker, may I indicate from the outset and note with concern that the mover of the Motion has taken time to explain what this Motion intends to achieve. I will try and simplify the context of the Motion for the purpose of clarity and for each one of us appreciating what the mover is trying to communicate to this august House. I do hope that hon. Members will pay very special attention.

Madam Speaker, if you go to the website for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), you will find the slogan, “Securing National Strategic Food Reserves, taking wealth to rural Zambia.” This is the statement which appears immediately you open the FRA website. The FRA has done well in managing the strategic food reserves.

Madam Speaker, what the mover of the Motion is saying, to simplify his message for all of us who are seated here today, is that when the FRA is given a target to go and buy strategic food reserves, it is given money to buy 1 million tonnes. At the same time, the FRA will buy extra maize. So, what has been happening over the years is that the Ministry of Agriculture has been lifting what is called a restriction, allowing the FRA to export the extra maize which is not needed by the country. When the FRA exports the maize, the money does not go to that farmer who supplied the excess maize.

Madam Speaker, what the mover of the Motion is basically saying is that in the National Budget, we will continue to allocate money to buy strategic food reserves. We will allocate money through this National Budget. If our farmers in Kaputa have grown maize, we will buy that maize for strategic reasons. However, the mover of the Motion is now saying that in addition to buying the strategic food reserves, whether it is 1 million or 2 million tonnes of maize, farmers will be helped by the FRA. In short, we are saying that if there is a market in East Africa, and our farmers in Kaputa, Kamfinsa or any constituency have grown maize, they are not in a position to bring that maize from where they have done the farming to an area where they need to sell the maize to East Africa. So, the mover is saying that the Government, through the FRA, should help farmers export maize, and I support his thinking.

Madam Speaker, I am happy that the Food Reserve Act was amended in 2020. The law was amended. Initially, we had a law that gave the FRA the mandate to only buy strategic reserves, but in the year 2020, through this august House, the law was changed. Of course, some of us were not yet part of Parliament. The law was changed to give the FRA an extra mandate to export maize. Now, in this case, which maize must the FRA export? Should it export the food that is meant for strategic reserves? The answer is no. We are saying that the FRA should buy strategic reserves and also get maize from farmers and keep it in the storage sheds. It should then find a market for the farmers, export that maize and give the money to the farmers. That will enable farming to become a serious business.

Madam Speaker, for those who are not aware, right now, if farmers in Kamfinsa produce maize and want to sell it, someone will go there and buy it, for instance, at K100 per 50 kg bag. Since that person has the financial capacity to package and export that maize, he will make close to K650 from a 50 kg bag of maize. In short, the farmer who asked for farm inputs and laboured to produce that maize only gets K100. We have businessmen and women who have money, who will take advantage of the farmers by going to buy the farmers’ maize and export it. 

Madam Speaker, what we are saying now is that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) should do that for our farmers. The farmers in Misaka, in Ndola Central, should be given the ability to produce the maize that FRA will sell on their behalf. I am happy that the hon. Minister of Agriculture has joined us. The message to the hon. Minister of Agriculture is that we need to change the way agriculture is managed in as far as export for maize is concerned.

 

Currently, the Government buys all the maize. When it feels that there is enough maize, the extra maize is exported. The farmers will just retain the Floor price. I hope the hon. Members have understood what the mover of the Motion is trying to say. He is saying that the Government should buy the strategic reserves and keep that maize for strategic reasons.

Madam Speaker, the Government through the FRA, should go a step further and tell farmers who have produced the maize that the Government will facilitate exports or sell the maize for them instead of them being exploited by people who go and buy the maize from them. The question that will be asked is: Who will meet the cost of storage? After the maize is sold on behalf of the farmers in Mazabuka, the FRA is going to charge what is called the administrative fee. The administrative fee will cater for storage and all the processes that are involved. Our farmers will remember that the Government took a very bold decision to support the growth of farming.

Madam Speaker, for those who may not appreciate the concept behind this Motion, I want to remind them as I conclude that we need to get our farmers out of poverty. How do we get them out of poverty if they are going to sell only for strategic reasons? We must get them out of poverty by creating a market for them, so, that our farmers in Chifunabuli can be able to make enough money from the excess maize.

Madam Speaker, as I conclusion, the message today is that we need to buy food for strategic reasons and also, support our famers to export the maize that is not needed within Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for permitting the good people of Lumezi to contribute to this none controversial Motion.

Madam Speaker, to start with, permit me to quote from what Professor Oliver Saasa said in his book titled: Comparative Economic Advantage of Alternative Agricultural ProductionActivities in Zambia. On page 6, talks about infrastructure constraints are a hindrance to our agriculture growth as a country.

Madam Speaker, indeed, for us who represent the rural constituencies, we know that our farmers are crying everyday due to poor road net work because this is the only way they can transport their crops to the market. The mover of this Motion intends to reduce the burden of those farmers by proposing such a Motion.

Madam Speaker, I hope our hon. Colleagues on your right, for the very first time, can support such a progressive Motion that intends to cure the many challenges that our people are faced with.

Madam Speaker, for example, today in Lumezi, people will cry that the rainfall has washed away their roads and that they cannot transport any crop to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). So, if FRA is engaged to find market specifically for those people in these rural set ups, in the villages, who have challenges to even find a vehicle to transport their crop, that becomes a solution.

Madam Speaker, most of the hon. Members of Parliament from the rural set up are briefcase buyers of this maize. We take advantage of the farmers in Lumezi and Sinda by buying their maize cheaply, sell it, and make more profit than the farmers. So, the Government should give our farmers an advantage which will make things between them and the buyers equal. So, if FRA comes, the hon. Members of Parliament who buy this maize as briefcase buyers will no longer have that added advantage at the expense of the ordinary people.

Madam Speaker, this Motion is curing the many challenges that have been faced by our farmers for a very long time since time immemorial. Our hon. Colleagues think that we are questioning the food stability in the country. We know that on several occasions, the FRA has announced to the country that it has enough food in reserves. So, we see no reason why we cannot help our farmers sell the maize or soya beans that is not in the reserves, instead of it going bad or instead of our farmers being duped. In most cases, there are briefcase buyers who do not move with cash but go with contaminated fertiliser which they exchange with maize and in the end, our farmers will lose out.

Madam Speaker, when we institutionalise this kind of business, we are safe to say our farmers will not be taken for granted. With these few remarks, I support this Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: On point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I was waiting patiently for Hon. Zulu to exhaust his points on this Motion. I rise on Standing Order No. 65(b), which compels us that we must ensure the information we provide to the House is factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, Hon. Zulu, has been soliciting for empathy and sympathy from me his elder brother, a senior hon. Member on many occasions, where he said he had been black listed from debating in the Chamber by the presiding officers. Now, I am surprised to see him debate so freely and happily. Is he in order therefore to have provided this information and give the impression that he is not allowed to debate in this House?

I seek you serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I do not even know what to say.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members have all sorts of complaints. So, we have just learnt to live with them. So, hon. Members are free to debate within the allowed time. If the time is not available then, unfortunately, we cannot have everybody debating. For us, we have an open mind. I would like to thank you very much for that.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I thank you so very much for allowing the people of Mwandi to contribute to this Motion that has been brought on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi was debating, he made mention that for the first time, we need to support the people on the left. I first of all, want to correct that notion

Madam Speaker, first of all, there was a Motion that was brought on the Floor of this House urging the Government to create agriculture banks and that Motion was supported the people on your right. There was another Motion that was brought by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi, regarding the meal allowances at the University of Zambia (UNZA) and it was support by the people on your right. The hon. Member for Kanchibiya moved a Motion urging the Government to improve the conditions of service for the councillors, and the hon. Members on the right also supported it. However, hon. Members on the right do not support everything that is brought on the Floor of the House, but they support progressive Motions. So, I just wanted to put that on record.

Madam Speaker, let me make mention that I do not support the Motion and I will state the reasons it is very unprogressive.

Madam Speaker, first of all, the mover of the Motion mentioned the risks involved as regards food security in relation to the Motion. He indicated that he knows and he is aware that such a Motion can bring about instability with regard to food security. We are Zambians and whoever plays with our nshima, plays with our souls. So, the Motion touches on something that is very important to every Zambian, which is our staple food, nshima. The hon. Member knows that there will be a challenge as regards food security. So, why would he bring such a Motion to destabilise our staple food, which is nshima?

Madam Speaker, let me also make mention that the New Dawn Government has created an enabling environment for every person who wants to do business out there. Let me read the Motion again. The Motion is targeting one farmer, who farms only maize. What about the farmer who farms tomatoes? We see what happens at Soweto Market in this country, where tomatoes go to waste. Will we also urge the Government to buy tomatoes on behalf of the farmers?

Madam Speaker, we cannot segregate the farmers who are farming sweet potatoes, especially in my constituency. Should I also move a Motion urging the Government to buy sweet potatoes on behalf of the farmers in Mwandi? No. How about the farmers rearing animals such as pigs? How about the people keeping vinkubala? Are we saying that we are going to buy the vinkubalaon their behalf because they are going to waste?

 

Madam Speaker, the Motion does not sit well with us. I said that the New Dawn Government has created an enabling environment, unless if the hon. Member went to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and he was denied a permit. There are loans for the farmers through the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and the Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs).

Madam Speaker, as Zambians, we should not ask what the Government will do for us. Let us also ask ourselves what we can do for our Government. The Government has created an environment for us to be able to thrive. So, if you have excess maize, you can form a co-operative. If you are failing to sell your maize, there are so many platforms that the Government has provided for you to be able to export that maize. As a co-operative or an individual, you can go and see the hon. Minister of Agriculture, and he will give you the export permit. Surely, we should stop politicising certain things. This Motion is political. Some people want to show the Zambians that they care for them, yet they failed to care for them at that time. So, this is a Brought in Dead (BID) Motion.

Madam Speaker, I think I have debated for five minutes. The mover said that when the farmers export maize, there will be improved farming techniques. What is the correlation between exporting maize and improved farming techniques? Where is the correlation? There is no correlation whatsoever. Like I said, there are export permits and the environment is very much enabling. People can form co-operatives, get export permits and export their produce. The New Dawn Government cannot segregate certain farmers from other farmers. The hon. Member cannot just pin point one kind of farmer. How about the ones who are farming soya beans?

Madam Speaker, the Order Paper is loaded. Let me leave the two minutes so that we can continue with other business. This Motion is a BID. I submit.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, if you want to raise a point of order, indicate to show that you want to raise a point of order. Unfortunately, standing up does not entail that you want to raise a point of order. Let us make progress.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion.

Madam Speaker, from the word go, I wish to place on record that on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya, I support the Motion and I want to put a proviso that we are at a point where we must not only be talking about the exportation of maize, but value addition of maize products.

Madam Speaker, in supporting my brother, the hon. Member, I want to say that this provides an opportune time for hon. Members on both sides of the House and the Executive to rethink and reflect on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Over the last twenty years, the FISP, as we know, has not delivered on the expectations on the set outcomes with regard to empowering and repositioning a small-scale holder farmer.

Madam Speaker, there is a population of over 3 million small-holder farmers, and at the moment, we are only reaching out to 1 million small-holder farmers. What the Motion is telling us is that the time has come for us to rethink how we deal with this commodity called maize, depoliticise it and take advantage of the market obtaining both within Zambia as well as beyond this country. In view of the situation in Ukraine and Russia, we know that the production of crops such as maize and wheat will go down. This is an advantage for Zambia because of the comparative advantage we have as a country.

Madam Speaker, as a country, we must maximise our potential and we are only utilising about 15 per cent of it. The Motion is saying that we must focus on creating market linkages for small-scale holder farmers. What the Motion should also tell us is that we need to go beyond maize, much as maize is a broad term. Let us export mealie meal as opposed to exporting maize. Let us export corn flakes and other products that come out of maize, the value addition which I believe the Executive also preaches about. The moment we restrict ourselves to exporting maize, the street meaning of the word, we will be exporting jobs to other countries. So, I support the Motion moved and seconded by my dear brothers, the mover and the seconder.

Madam Speaker, what we are saying is that the moment has come for us to rethink the FISP and I know the hon. Minister agrees with me that this will enable us achieve the vision and aspirations of the National Trade Policy, which says that Zambia must become a net exporter, but a net exporter of what? It must become a net exporter of value-added products. So, my brother is correct in setting this tone. However, we must go further and say, as we export maize, let us focus on exporting value-added products.

Madam Speaker –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

There is too much noise in the background. Let us allow the hon. Member for Kanchibiya to debate.

May the hon. Member proceed.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, it is my dear sister from Mwandi who deprived comrades from –

Laughter

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, as I said, the FISP was introduced in 2002 as a temporarily measure and the Ministry of Agriculture should rethink this programme.We need to move away from the box because it does not even exist in the first place. The intentions of 2022 were well intended. Twenty years later, however, a time has come for us to rethink how we can help a farmer in Kanchibiya, in Tunku Village, to export the excess maize and to not be exploited by a briefcase buyer. We must move to the next level of asking ourselves how to ensure that value addition takes centre stage in maize production. We must ensure that we empower the small holder farmers across the country.

Madam Speaker, the opinion of the people of Kanchibiya on this is that it is a good Motion. Yes, we can do some fine tuning to it. What we are saying is that there can be exportation of maize, but we must also look at exporting value added products. In Zambia, in this day and age, we must be talking about smuggling. The reason we are talking about smuggling as a country is because there is demand for this product. We have an opportunity to do what is right with this it.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, the people of Kanchibiya submit in support of this Motion.

I thank you.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chilubi an opportunity to contribute to debate on this Motion. The people of Chilubi establish that the Motion is anchored on Section 5 of the Food Reserve Act as amended in 2020.

Madam Speaker, representing a rural constituency, let me state that 80 per cent of our people are surviving through agriculture as an activity for economic survival. What is before us is an issue of exploitation verses capacity, especially for the peasant farmer. If that be the case, what we are trying to fight is poverty linked to vulnerability. In this regard, the section that I earlier on referred to talks about designated crops. Indeed, if the section I referred to is talking about designated crops, then we have a stratum of who a peasant farmer is. There are peasant farmers under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services who are benefiting from wetland fertilisers and so on and so forth. They are expected to graduate to the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Those who are under FISP are expected to graduate from FISP so that they stand on their own.

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Excuse me, young man. What do you know?

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, looking at that, what we are trying to emphasise is the issue of graduation of these farmers. How do we create capacity for them to understand properly? What we are emphasising is to not go on a fishing expedition around the world but on putting a premium on maize. Why we are putting a premium on maize is because when you scan the agricultural sector, it is a cash crop that is providing a market for those farmers who are within the 80 per cent that I referred to. There is a market available locally as well as internationally. How we are factoring this in is by looking at what the cost of fertiliser will be if these farmers graduate from the ordinary government support. This includes those under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services as well as the Ministry of Agriculture. 

 

Madam Speaker, if we were to go by the statistics where we currently have 3 million farmers that are supposed to benefit from fertiliser provided by the Government. However, we are not even capturing all of them because we cannot just take money to one ministry to subsidise agriculture. If that is the case, it means we need to create capacity within the citizenry so that those who survive using agriculture can have a market. What question are we trying to answer here? The Government is a dream facilitator through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). The Government needs to facilitate because the farmer cannot do the logistics properly to reach Nakonde and other outlets where this maize can be.

Madam Speaker, I adopt the debate by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi as mine. This brings me to the challenges of infrastructure, especially roads, which is linked to this. For my place, I will talk about embankments and canals used to transport various goods. So, it is a complicated world we are talking about here. We should not bring in issues of tomatoes, onions or other things, but talk about placing a premium on maize.

Madam Speaker, if we were to scan Section 5 of the Food Reserve Act, it does facilitate that the farmer be supported. As I heavily support this Motion, let me point out that we are supposed to agree on is the mechanism. Do we go the individual or co-operative route? That is what we are supposed to agree on today. We are not supposed to say that this Motion has been brought-in-dead (BID), unless you do not come from a rural area like me. So if you come from a rural area like me, you are actually supposed to be up in arms in supporting this Motion.

Madam Speaker, if what we are saying today is empowering farmers, it is actually helping the Government to not have too much pressure on the Treasury. The farmers that we are going to empower next season should have the leverage to bargain properly. Comrade Mposha, can you allow the people of Chilubi to flow.

Laughter

Mr Fube: The farmers can have the muscle –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, just concentrate on the debate.

Mr Fube: Yes, I have ignored him, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Do not engage the other hon. Members.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the farmers can have the muscle to buy into the United Party for National Development (UPND) Manifesto that is talking about agriculture as a business. They can also buy into the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) that, among other things, is trying to promote diversification of the economy from a mineral driven one to an agricultural one. Therefore, if that is what we mean, I do not see why we should even stand here and debate against the Motion because it is supported by the UPND Manifesto. It is a Motion that is further supported by the 8NDP, unless some people do not read their documents.

Madam, the UPND Manifesto is very strong about taking agriculture as a business. The national development plan is very strong about taking agriculture as a business. In this case, what we are trying to do is to support the Government to implement this through this Motion so that at the end of the day, the farmer can be empowered. That way, we can remove the farmer from poverty associated with vulnerability.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, the people of Chilubi rest their suitcase. I thank you.

The Minister of Agriculture(Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I thank all the people who have debated by acknowledging that the mover of the Motion debated very well. The seconder of the Motion also debated very well. I must say that literally all the people who debated had very strong points. However, one cannot ignore the last speaker because he actually summarised everything very well. He said:

“The issue here is to decide which path to take. Is it the individual path or is it the co-operative path?”

Madam Speaker, that answers the question which is on the Floor of the House this afternoon. May I say that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government acknowledges that Zambia currently is encouraging private-led development. We should not ignore that. That is our policy and it is a very important item to take note of. We are encouraging private-led development. It would, therefore, be a wrong path to start encouraging development which is supposed to be private-led and giving it to government or public institutions. I think for the UPND, it is very clear that is not our path.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: In fact, Madam Speaker, it was not even the PF’s path, neither was it MMD’s. I will stop there because maybe UNIP was combining the two. So, given this situation, I do not see why this House would sit and debate so strongly, a Motion which is slightly not aligned to the development agenda of the current Government. In short, it will simply not happen that we can take something which is supposed to be private led and give it to the Government.

Madam Speaker, let me now emphasise why the Food Reserve Agency’s (FRA) mandate, which I can see people have read, and it is very nice to hear hon. Members speak very strongly about, is very clear. The FRA is not there to start looking for export market for the farming community in Zambia. The FRA’s main mandate would be to keep what the farmers have grown so that the country can be food secure for a given period of time. So, its mandate is national food security. I know that the Act was amended, and that was done to allow the FRA to trade in maize and other crops, of course, locally and, indeed, through exports but not on behalf of the farmers. However, it can export what it has.

Madam Speaker, secondly, we do have the Zambia Co-operative Federation (ZCF) already sitting in place. I would, therefore, encourage Hon. Mtayachalo and the seconder of the Motion, as well as any of the hon. Members who would like to join us, to engage the ZCF and say here is an opportunity for you to prosper and safeguard the interest of the small-scale farmers who, indeed, are incapable of exporting maize and go through the vagaries of the export trade.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, so, Hon. Mtayachalo and the seconder must please, come to the office. Let us engage the chief executive of the ZCF who is Mr Chirwa, so that we can move him into adopting what the mover of the Motion has said. To take that to the FRA would be a misplacement of the right thinking. The hon. Member’s thinking is very right but it is not well placed on the FRA.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: I mean this not in any way disrespectful to Hon. Mtayachalo. Not at all. If I gave that indication, I withdraw, but what I am saying is that what the hon. Member is saying is correct, but he is targeting a wrong institution. So, together, let us target the right institution and that is the ZCF.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, as Ministry of Agriculture, we give export permits and Hon. Sabao was very clear about that. I have always said, we hon. Members here, should co-ordinate the activities for small-scale farmers in our constituencies because we are able. Hon. Chitalu seated there is able to co-ordinate for Mansa. The hon. Member for Kawambwa, I do not see him, oh, there he is, is able to coordinate for Kawambwa.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtolo: There he is for all of us to see.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: This morning, Madam Speaker, I had a very good meeting with a Zambian company which is dealing in potatoes; BuyaBamba, which has co-operated with others and they are calling themselves Zambian Potatoes. They are exporting potatoes. It is wrong to say that we are not here to talk about beans, potatoes, and what have you because we are talking about maize. No, no, no, agriculture is not about maize and the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) alone.

Hon. UPND Member: Quality!

Mr Mtolo: It covers a very wide range of crops.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: So, as we discuss, let us look at what is happening in other sectors. BuyaBamba through Zambian Potatoes is exporting potatoes to South Africa, Namibia and other countries in Africa. That is what we should be doing. There is no Zambian Government intervention in the exports. Our role is, through the President, to extend the market and through the ministry, to expand the production of potatoes. That is what we should be doing and not saying no, give these potatoes to FRA or this Government company to do it. No, no, private enterprise is the best enterprise to manage this type of activity.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Yes, Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member for Kanchibiya that we should rethink the FISP. We are rethinking the FISP and in the next few days, as we present our budget, you will be peeping into what the FISP will be looking like because we have realised that now, if we delay on fertiliser, the whole country wants to hang the people responsible as if we are here just for fertiliser. We are not here just for fertiliser. We are here to look at a broader spectrum of the agricultural sector.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I think I have answered sufficiently. Therefore, in conclusion, and in very clear terms, I would like to urge the House not to support what the mover has asked, not because it is wrong, but because it can be handled by a different vehicle, which we have. So, for today, we should not support this particular Motion.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I want to take this opportunity to thank the seconder of this Motion for having seconded it with a lot of vigour. I want to also thank all those who have debated, particularly, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi, and the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Madam,I do understand that in a democracy, some will support and others will not support a Motion. I think the New Dawn Government has lost a window of opportunity to actually uplift millions of our poor farmers, especially in the rural areas. I have listened attentively to the debate and I think the hon. Minister of Agriculture agrees with me that the small-scale farmer has no capacity to export. We have been talking about allowing these permits for all these years, but a poor farmer in Mchini or Mwandi has no capacity to hire a vehicle and export maize to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). That is why many countries are coming to the aid of their people. Zambia is a developing country. We must realise that we have not reached that stage. We are not a developed country. We are a developing country. That is why in countries like China, parastatal companies are involved in business.

Madam Speaker, I feel that the people of Zambia will be able to make informed decisions from listening to these debates. We have been complaining about the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) here. If you look at the budget for FISP, you will see that it supersedes the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) when less than 31 per cent of the people in Zambia do not have access to electricity. So, if there was that opportunity where farmers could sell their maize maybe, at K800 per 50 kg bag, surely, you would expect farmers to buy their own farming inputs.

Madam, if you look at the budget for infrastructure, for water and so on, you will find that the budget for FISP is above all those programmes. So, I feel that, yes, people have been talking about value chain, yes, there must be a stage. At this point, small-scale farmers cannot buy a milling company and start exporting maize. These things are a process. Today, you can allow small-scale farmers to export maize, tomorrow, they will be able to graduate to a level where they will be able to export feed to other countries. However, at the moment, our small-scale farmers do not have that capacity.

Madam Speaker, someone was talking about segregation. What segregation are we talking about because the FRA does not buy tomatoes. Does FRA buy tomatoes on behalf of farmers? It does not. So, under the current system, the FRA only buys specific crops. I think it is wrong for us to say that this Motion is segregating because it is only targeting maize. We must realise that the majority of our people, especially us from rural constituencies, grow maize. Members of Parliament from rural constituencies have been growing maize from time immemorial. Today, we cannot run away from the fact that every Member of Parliament here spends sleepless nights, especially those from rural areas because of issues of fertiliser.

Madam Chairperson, imagine the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) had the opportunity to export maize to the Democratic Republic of Congo and other countries. I do not think that the Minister of Agriculture, my brother, Hon. Mtolo, would have been having a headache over fertiliser because small-scale farmers would have been able to buy their own farming inputs. That is what is happening in other countries.

Madam Chairperson, if you go to Asia, the rice growing countries have a mechanism where small growers of rice are helped to export rice to Africa. Indeed, I do not see this to be wrong. I think the ministry has missed a window of opportunity. This was going to actually help many small scale farmers to graduate and also mechanise their businesses. It is not fair that our farmers have continued to use a hoe fifty-eight years after independence.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I just want to urge this august House to, please, support this Motion by voting yes. By so doing, we will be releasing millions of our people from the jaws of poverty.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Question that in addition to buying maize for strategic reserves, this House urges the Government toassist small-scale farmers to export maize put and negatived.

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 51 – (Ministry of Transport and Logistics – 519,768,075).

(Consideration resumed)

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Madam Chairperson, I am profoundly grateful for this kind permission to allow me present the 2023 Budget Policy Statement for the Ministry of Transport and Logistics to this august House. Derived from the portfolio functions outlined in the Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2021, the ministry is mandated with the responsibility of formulating and administering policies and strategies in the transport and logistics sector. The ministry is also responsible for Government vehicles, provision of pontoon services, Government printing services and repair and maintenance of Government office equipment.

Madam Chairperson, with the leaveof the House, allow me to review the current budget performance. The budget allocation for the Ministry of Transport and Logistics in 2022 was K462.8 million and a supplementary budget of K66.7 million, bringing the budget total provision to K529.5 million. The funding, as at 15^th November, 2022, was K513.5 million, representing 97 per cent.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to underscore some of the achievements recorded by my ministry in 2022, sector by sector as follows:

Rail Way Sub-sector

Completion of repair works on the Chambeshi Bridge in September 2022 – The bridge had suffered extensive damage from the goods train accident that occurred on 13^th May, 2021, which led to the suspension of the usage of the bridge. The Government had to release slightly over K100 million to pay all salary areas for the Tanzania Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) workers on the Zambian side up to September 2022. Currently, the Government is reviewing the options of revitalising TAZARA, and will soon be engaging Tanzania with the view of bringing China on board. Further, the ministry embarked on the reconstruction of the Bombwe Bridge on the Mulobezi Railway Line to improve reliability of train operations and enhance the quality of services. In an effort to curb accidents at level crossings and rampant derailments, the Government released a total of K5.2 million for track maintenance and installation of level crossings signage and barriers.

Aviation Sub-sector

Mr Chairperson, the Government embarked on the completion of the Kasama Airport Run Way, which is expected to be completed by the end of December 2022. Further, parking charges for aircrafts for both domestic and international operators in all the airports operated by the Zambia Air Force Cooperation Ltd have been reduced.

Maritime Sub-sector

Madam Chairperson, the ministry commends the devolution of some maritime and pontoon services to local authorities following the approval of the sector devolution plans by the Cabinet. The ministry also rehabilitated and expanded the Ngabwe Pontoon from 25 metric tonnes to 35 metric tonnes. The ministry has, likewise, rehabilitated the Chavuma pontoon. The ministry is currently rehabilitating and expanding the pontoon at Kabompo from 25 metric tonnes to 35 metric tonnes. The Luangwa Pontoon has started operating after it was moved from Kazungula.

Road Sub-sector

Madam Chairperson, the ministry finalised the development of the Road Safety Strategy that provides guidance on road safety activities. On the decentralisation of the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RATSA) services, twelve more local authorities were delegated to offer motor vehicle licensing functions, and these include Mwense, Mbala, Kasempa, Kafue, Mumbwa, Kabompo, Mwinilunga, KapiriMposhi, Luangwa, Nyimba, Lundazi and Kaoma

Challenges for 2022

Madam Chairperson, notwithstanding these achievements, the ministry had challenges such as:

1. inadequate office accommodation to carter for all officers in the realigned ministry;
2. inadequate long-term financing sources for railway and maritime infrastructure and related programmes;
3. inadequate and unreliable rail infrastructure coupled with insufficient and unreliable rolling stock;
4. encroachments on railway aviation, road and maritime land affecting future expansions and modernisation of infrastructure; and
5. theft of railway material, especially railway lines.

Key Activities to be Implemented in 2023

Madam Chairperson, the year 2023, the ministry proposes to spend K519,768,775. This allocation represents a decrease of 1.83 per cent compared to the 2022 allocation of K529,474,864. From this allocation, K68,287,941, is for personal emoluments, while K268,314,316, is for programme implementation, and K144,275,962, is for procurement of assets. The ministry targets to raise revenue amounting to K869,973,834, from its various revenue streams.

Madam Chairperson, in terms of administration and reforms, the focus will be on the following:

1. implementation of the Ministry of Transport and Logistics Strategic Plan 2022–2026;
2. development of the National Logistics Policy;
3. devolution of some maritime and pontoon functions to local authorities;
4. dismantling of arrears for infrastructure goods services and personal emoluments; and
5. repeal and replacement of the maritime laws and the Railways Act.

Madam Chairperson, in the aviation sector, the focus will be on the following:

1. upgrade of Mongu and Solwezi airports;
2. ensure the completion of aviation infrastructure at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA), Simon MwansaKapwepwe International Airport (SMKIA), and Mbala Airport; and
3. commence construction of the Kasaba Bay Airport.

Madam Chairperson, all this is aimed at improving air connectivity to easy movement of both passengers and cargo.

Madam Chairperson, in the water transport sub-sector, the focus will be on the devolution of harbour infrastructure, pontoons and dredging equipment to the local authorities. The ministry will however, ensure improvement of legal and operational reforms in order to easy water transport and promote tourism and trade.

Madam Chairperson, in the railways sub-sector, the ministry will focus on the recapitalisation of the Zambia Railway Limited (ZRL) and the Tanzania Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) to ensure they become self-sustaining through increased rolling stop and rehabilitation of railway infrastructure to aid robust linkages to more sea ports.

In addition, focus will be on reforming the railway sector to facilitate its development and enhance participation of private sector through open access regulations.

Madam Chairperson, in the road sub-sector, the focus will be on scaling-up road safety education, enforcement, and modernisation of road traffic management by greater use of Information Communication Technology (ICT) to manage and monitor road traffic with the aim of reducing accidents and fatalities.

Madam Chairperson, the above-mentioned are the ministry’s priority programmes for 2023 and are aligned to the President’s Speech to the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, the Eight National Development Plan (8NDP) and the 2023 Budget Speech.

Madam Chairperson, at this juncture, kindly permit me to seek the unwavering support for this 2023 proposed Budget for the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, from my hon. Colleagues for which support I remain indebted and I thank them in anticipation.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

The Chairpersongave the floor toMr Kanengo.

The Chairperson: Mr Kanengo, start with the maiden speech, if you have not yet given one.

Hon. PF Members left theAssembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanengo (Kabushi): Madam Chairperson, I sincerely thank you for according me this opportunity to deliver my maiden speech in this august House.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to convey my sincere gratitude to His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, and Her Honour the Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia, Mrs. W. K. Mutale Nalumango. Let me also thank the leadership of the United Party for National Development (UPND) at national, provincial, district, constituency, and ward levels, for their great support in my political journey to the National Assembly.

Madam Chairperson, I am grateful to the Minister for the Copperbelt Provincial, Hon. Elisha Matambo, the Minister of Transport and Logistics, Hon. Frank Tayali, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifubu, Mr Lloyd Lubozha, and many other hon. Members of Parliament and hon. Ministers who supported me during my campaigns.

Madam Chairperson, my gratitude also goes to Mr Henry Bwalya, the UPND Kabushi Constituency Chairperson and his team, for their dedication and great guidance during my political journey of pursuing the Kabushi Parliamentary Constituency seat. I thank them because they stood by my side and gave me enduring support from the period August, 2021, General Elections, up to the recently held by-elections that redeemed the people of Kabushi by voting in leaders who care for them.

Madam Chairperson, as you may be aware, the August, 2021, General Elections period was not ease because citizens faced several challenges like electoral violence. Despite all those challenges, the people of Zambia were brave enough to vote out the oppressive Government that made most of us vulnerable to brutality. On that premise, allow me to express further appreciation to the people of Kabushi Constituency for the dedication and commitment as they elected His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, as the Seventh Republican President. Indeed, our struggle was not in vain because we can now see that we have a President whose focus is to activate development through a methodical, meaningful, and positive effect.

Madam Chairperson, during the 2021 General Elections, Kabushi Constituency was infamously notorious in the political space, owing to electoral violence and other unlawful conducts by the party in power at that time. Chaos became the basis of my petition which I won in the courts of law, and subsequently, became the duly elected hon. Member of Parliament for Kabushi Constituency.

Madam Chairperson, permit me to remind the incumbent politicians with aspirations of representing the people at different levels that we can never win power by using force and violence. If at any point this happens, it is important to fight it and ensure that democracy prevails over such vices.

Madam Chairperson, the people of Kabushi Constituency have desired for real development in the last decade, ranging from clean water and sanitation, adequate health posts, good road infrastructure, and empowerment programs to ensure sustainable development. This is the main reason the good people of Kabushi Constituency saw it fit to elect the UPND to represent them in this august House so that we can take development to Kabushi.

Madam Chairperson, additionally, I want to tell the nation that the people of Kabushi Constituency are very happy with His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema’s policy fulfilment on free education, the employment of 11,000 health workers and 30,000 teachers, and the recruitments at the Zambia Correctional Services (ZCS), the Zambia Air Force (ZAF), the Zambia Army, and the Zambia National Service (ZNS). Therefore, I am very confident that soon, recruitments will be done in other security wings like the Zambia Police Service (ZPS). This is what we meant when we said we would fix the country by changing lives of ordinary Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanengo: Madam Chairperson, I am aware of the need to empower the young people, the women and the aged in Kabushi Constituency. My office will ensure the timely giving of empowerment to vulnerable but viable people of Kabushi Constituency, which will help address different social issues such as poverty, jobs and ensure wealth creation.

Madam Chairperson, during campaigns, I made a commitment to the people of Kabushi Constituency to fight tenaciously for their interests and work towards a political culture that promotes teamwork, respect and empathy to deliver the needed outcomes for them. Indeed, I am reassuring them the same today in this august House.

Madam Chairperson, the people of Kabushi Constituency are vibrant, ready and eager to work together in ascertaining the developmental agenda and policy of His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. They understand that there are plenty of things that an hon. Member of Parliament cannot do alone. They also understand that with concerted effort from them as a community, and with the support of the hon. Member of Parliament, the Government and civil society, they can make real headway to achieve community developmental goals. These efforts must be encouraged and have been organised through visible, energetic and positive leadership. I shall move in this direction as I lead the people of Kabushi Constituency.

Madam Chairperson, as I wind up, allow me to congratulate my elder brother, Mr Abel Mulenga, MP, for winning the Kwacha Constituency by-election. I drew strength from him during the by-election as we faced similar challenges. I also congratulate all United Party for National Development (UPND) candidates who won the by-elections which were held across the country, reminding elected leaders to reflect and represent the will of the people.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, allow me to thank my lovely, beautiful, prayerful and hardworking wife Beatrice Mwewa …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanengo: … and the family for standing by my side and supporting me through my political career. Above all, I thank the Almighty God for his mercies and love in my life. Even as I serve the people of Kabushi Constituency, I send God before me in all the activities I shall undertake for them.

Madam Chairperson, let us unite in partnership and make a joint commitment to make this Parliament worthwhile. Let us change the present and the future.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanengo: Madam Chairperson, I now want to debate the Vote that the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics has brought on the Floor.

Madam Chairperson, I support the hon. Minister’s statement and the policies because before the UPND formed Government, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government introduced a policy and it borrowed money outside the country. It boasted that it would undertake the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Project using the Eurobond. However, as of today, the people of Kabushi are bearing the consequences. We are paying the loans, yet we did not benefit from the same Eurobond.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanengo: Madam Chairperson, renovating the railway line will help us improve the economy. I say so because previous Governments spent colossal sums of money to build sub-standard roads which were overpriced. For this reason, renovating the railway line will help us improve the economy. All earth-moving cargo must be put on trains and light materials must be moved by road.

Madam Chairperson, I support the Vote on the Floor.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for giving the people of Chienge an opportunity to add a voice to this very important budget line for the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, a ministry which is close to my heart.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister spoke about railway lines and I will add a word on that.

Madam Chairperson, look at what is happening on our roads. The road from Chisamba to Ndola is very dangerous, and it qualifies to be the most dangerous road in Zambia. The ministry should work with foreign companies and agree that they ferry goods using the railway line. I was very happy and impressed to hear that some repairs are being done on that road, but there is a big challenge, and I was hoping to hear that the ministry is in talks with the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region so that they can change the agreement that Zambia has.

Madam Chairperson, when I was a member of your Committee on Transport, Works and Supply, I remember we talked about these things when we went to Tanzania. Most goods are being transported through the road, and this is not supposed to happen. In developed countries like the United States of America (USA) and Germany, some goods are transported using the railway line. If we continue allowing our colleagues from other countries to carry copper on our roads, the roads will continue getting damaged and at the end of the day, this country will have roads which are dangerous to the Zambians. So, the hon. Minister should look into that and see if they can reverse and renegotiate the bilateral agreement.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about the pontoons. There used to be a pontoon at Kazungula Bridge before it was built, and I was hoping that pontoon would be given to the people of Katanga Village in Mporokoso. There is a new farming block there, which is supposed to be developed but it cannot be developed because no one can take an excavator or anything across the Luangwa River. So, I was hoping to hear that the pontoon has been taken to such a place.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about the issue of encroaching on the Zambia Railways railway lines. As you drive towards Chipata Clinic, there is a house which is ten or twenty metres away from the railway line.

Madam Chairperson, should we have a goods train carrying, maybe, sulfuric acid, we should expect a catastrophe and the people in that house or those that are living in those houses are likely to die. So, I think the Government should look into compensating these people when the time comes to ask them to move away from their houses so that in the future, the railway line can have the 50 meters stipulated in our Constitution.

Madam Chairperson, I heard the hon. Minister talk about half the budget going towards the salaries. I would have loved to hear that the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) is being empowered so that we can have more RTSA officers.

Madam, when one drives around 0100 hours or 0200 hours on the Great North Road, you will find trucks and buses on the road because we do not have enough man power from RTSA.

Madam Chairperson, I am also expecting the hon. Minister to give us a report on what the ministry is likely to do to help these truckers or those who drive along such highways with SOS. We do not have SOSs in Zambia. You would be in a place with a breakdown but would not be able to communicate to anyone. If we would have the SOSs on the roads, –

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Fube, what is your point of order?

Mr Fube: Madam, my point of order is in line with Standing Orders No. 202 ˗ Privileges of Members. To be specific, I refer to Standing Order No. 1, 4 and 5.

Madam, before I walked out with everybody, which is my right, I was supposed to be the second debater after Hon. Kanengo. However, I found that the staff from the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Department had removed my name. I know that they have now included me, but I am going to raise this point of order. It is after I have written a note that I think they have –

Interruptions

Mr Fube: Hallo, hallo! The Bosch system –

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Fube, that is not a phone call, please. What is your point of order?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Can we give him chance. What is your point of order?

Mr Fube: Madam Chairperson, they have just included my name now that I have written to them. Yes!

Interruptions

Mr Fube: No! Come on! Do play with our privileges.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Fube, can you please resume your seat. Mr Fube, if you find yourself in such a situation, you are supposed to consult administration. You cannot rise on a point of order on an administrative issue. All you were supposed to do was to just write a note to ICT staff so that they include you back on the list. That is all and not rising on a point of order on something administrative.

You may continue, Rev. Katuta.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Chairperson, I was talking about road furniture. I think the Ministry of Transport and Logistics and the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development should work together. We have had many accidents. I have never seen a country, like ours, that does not have road furniture on highways. Sometimes, you would just see RTSA officers coming from some place, stopping you that you were over speeding, but when you look around the place they are saying that you are over speeding, you would find no sign for you to know that the speed limit is  40 Km/h, 60 Km/h or 80 Km/h. So, those are the things that we should look into.

Madam, when the hon. Minister talked about mining assets, I was expecting the ministry to increase the budget to give more money so that they could buy more toll tracks. The Great North Road and the Lusaka/Copperbelt Road are dangerous roads. You would find broken down trucks on the road but there would be no one to remove them from the roads.  These are the areas I would want to see the House get ready to increase funding or the allocation of the budget because it concerns the lives of the people Zambia.

Madam, let me emphasise the issue of trucks and buses to stop moving at night unless the ministry has lifted the Statutory Instrument (SI) that was done by the previous regime to stop trucks and buses from moving at night. This can only be successful if the ministry starts working with traffic officers. I always wonder why I would meet a truck or a bus at 0100 hours on the road. Where is it coming from because it has passed through roads blocks?

Madam Chairperson, I think these are challenges the ministry should look into. The House should also support the increment of the budget in terms of salaries so that we have more RTSA officers because, as at now, they are not being so effective.

I support the budget line. I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Eng. Mabenga (Mulobezi): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving the people of Mulobezi an opportunity to contribute to debate on the budget on the Floor.

Madam, the Minister of Transport and Logistics has five programmes: Air, road, railway, marine, maritime and Government assets. I am going to concentrate on rail and road.

Madam Chairperson, first of all, let me give a background to the railway system. The railway line from Chingola to Livingstone was built in 1902 and completed in 1907. The railway line from Mulobezi to Livingstone was built from 1923 to 1924.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Mabenga: The tonnage on the rail, currently, is 800,000 tonnes per year. The designed tonnage on the Zambia Railways is six million which means that at the moment, we are under performing by 5.2 tonnes. The reason is that there has not been maintenance on the railway system and there has not been any recapitalisation. So, we are appealing to the hon. Minister to find equity partners to give us money to improve the railway system. We used to have rail cars in the past, but now they are no longer there because of the system that is very bad.

Madam Chairperson, in terms of tonnage, people have moved away from the railway line to the road transport because the railway system is very bad. The Government tried to have a system to force transporters to go back on the road in 2018 by having SI No. 7 of 2018, but people have gone back to road because Zambia Railways Limited has no capacity to implement the SI. There is no capacity and they cannot prosecute the country or anybody. So, we are appealing to the hon. Minister to find a mechanism of forcing people to go back to the train instead of using road transport because we are trying to preserve the road asset. At the moment, it is very costly to maintain the roads because they are too many and costly. So, we want cargo to go back to the train.

Madam, coming back to the Mulobezi train, I thank the hon. Minister for having given us money for the Bombwe Bridge. However, since the railway line is very old, it can only carry a maximum of eighteen wagons. At the moment, it is carrying less, there is a lot of congestion on the train and most of the time it derails, especially now that we are going into the rainy season. So, let us spend money on the maintenance of the railway lines.

Madam Chairperson, in the budget line, we were told that there would be 3 million tonnes of copper in the next nine years. This means that we need to find a way on how we are going to be transporting the copper from Zambia to somewhere else, preferably, Walvis Bay. This means that we need the railway system to be improved.

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, there are too many loud side talks. If it is very important for you, you have the right to go and caucus outside so that you do not disturb the proceedings in the House. Can we speak in very low voices or maybe, step outside.

You may continue, Mr Mabenga.

Eng. Mabenga: Madam Chairperson, we need a railway line from Livingstone/Mulobezi/Sesheke to connect to Namibia, so that the copper can move along that line to Walvis Bay.

Madam Speaker, the budget has been increased from K462,785,784 to K519,768,075, but this is not enough. Let us find more money because it is expensive to maintain a railway line. Let us find equity partners for this venture. I am not saying Zambia should dig money somewhere else, but it should find equity partners who can help us improve our railway line. If we go to Table 4 in the Yellow Book, we note that the money for railway transport rehabilitation has moved from K25,044,967 to K 57,624,217. There is an increment quite okay, but that is not enough. We need to put in more money in this sector.

Madam Chairperson, under Table 4, Mulobezi Railways was last year allocated K1 million and this year’s allocation is still K1million. Why are we not improving so that we have more money? Mulobezi is a neglected area. It is a place where there has never been any development. It is only now that people have hope in the New Dawn Administration and they must be helped.

Madam Chairperson, the Mulobezi Train is still being run by the Government. The Government should move away from the system of managing trains. Why can we not shift this responsibility to Zambia Railways? Let Zambia Railways manage it because at the moment, it is still being run by the Government and as a result, the people are handicapped. Further, why not get equity partners to also rehabilitate the Mulobezi Train for the time being so that we can move on?

Madam Chairperson, coming back to sanity on the road, the report that was circulated some two days ago shows that last year, we lost 2,163 people through road accidents. Therefore, can we do something to curtail this road carnage because we cannot afford to lose 2,163 people, it is too much. We need these people and their votes. In addition, mini bus drivers exhibit a lot of indiscipline on the road. They park in the middle of the road and load people from there. They do all sorts of things. So, can the Government do something to ensure that there is discipline on the road.

Madam Speaker, the two lanes on Lumumba Road have been turned into a single lane because mini buses park in the middle of the road. Therefore, can the Government do something about that. The Njanji commuter train has completely died and so, we need to revamp it because it was helping many communities.

Mr Mabengadrank some water.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: So, let us have the Njanji commuter train revamped. We should also have some black spots clearly identified on the roads. In the olden days, we used to have clear black spots on the road. If you were driving on the road, you would find a sign that shows a black spot area. Let us go back to that and warn people that they need to be careful on certain spots. I support the budget, with those few words.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Chairperson, I would like to start by appreciating the mandate of the ministry. I would like to indicate that the people Chilubi support the budget but with certain reservations. The ministry is supposed to, among other things, formulate policies and implement them in line with improved transport and logistics and infrastructure, which in this case, falls under aviation, maritime, railway and roads.

Madam Chairperson, with that in mind, I want to focus on the issue of pontoon and mechanical services. The people of Chilubi do note that last year’s allocation was K54,422,679 and that has suffered a reduction by almost K30 million, which is our interest. This is because currently, we have an issue with our ferry which services the island and it is the only ferry that can carry big vehicles and heavy stuff to the island from Samfya.

Madam Chairperson, we would have loved that the ministry allocated more money to this particular issue, especially that the technology involved in improving structures where we have lakes like the Mongu/Kalabo agreement. Currently, if you look at the budget for the Ministry of Infrastructure Housing and Urban Development, you will see that there are no such things, meaning that this ministry is the only panacea to the needs of Chilubi.

Madam Chairperson, we have also realised that this ministry is an enabler in the economy. That is why it has deliberately been put under cluster one of our Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP). Having been put at cluster one, the people of Chilubi expect that this ministry would engage in constructing canals and making sure that certain embankmentsare facilitated for in order to ease the movement of goods and people.

Madam Chairperson, when it comes to the maritime, the people of Chilubi would like to submit that currently, we only have one reliable boat or some people can call it a ship, which is called Lucheleng’anga. The hon. Minister did indicate in his policy statement, I hope I got him right, maybe, he can come and answer to that, that the particular service has been devolved to the local government. In this case, the people of Chilubi have been having problems with Samfya management and the Chilubi local government.

Madam Chairperson, in the past, we depended strongly on Samfya to manage the transport system. However, those who have had time to travel using that route will agree with me that when the boat leaves Samfya Harbour, it goes to Mbabala and Chishi. However, the main station is Chilubi Island. If the main station is Chilubi Island, it means that the jetties have to be constructed at Chilubi Island as the main Harbour.

Madam Chairperson, there is a jetty that is not so helpful at Mbala. There is a need for another jetty at Chishi Island. Although at Chishi Island, the boat has been prohibited because the boat does not dock there because of the stones that are under the water that may break the boat. It is because of this that we feel this particular allocation is not enough to deal with that kind of undertaking as it involves serious construction.

Madam Chairperson, on top of that, if you peruse the 2022 Budget, you will see that, yes, it had K462,785,784. However, this was beefed up by a supplementary budget of K33 million plus, if I am not mistaken, I can be corrected on figures, which beats the current allocation of K519,768,075.

Madam Chairperson, if you see what has been allocated to aviation, maintenance of roads and maritime, to the people of Chilubi, maritime comes out as the lowest.

Madam Chairperson, we interact with this particular ministry on the face of roads and, maybe, embankments, because they are interconnected to our mighty Lake Bangweulu. However, what we are focused on, more, is the issue of canal construction. Whatever the Government does, it still remains our mode of transport, as the people of Chilubi. If we look at the structure of Chilubi, it is in three forms. There are swamps, the main land –

Mr Nkandu: I was there.

Mr Fube: Yes, you came to cause confusion.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Chairperson, there are swamps, the main land and the high land. Largely, the high land and the swamps depend on the canals. The construction of canals, I know, in as much we would like to attempt it through the route of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), is a very expensive undertaking.

Madam Chairperson, we would have loved the canals to have been allocated enough money. The reduction of K30 million from last year’s allocation, indeed, kills us in one way or another. It does not facilitate economic enablement. The people of Chilubi are quite productive in agriculture and other trades. As I speak, we cannot move properly to go to the swamps. That is why, even when Hon. Nkandu came to cause confusion, he could not travel to the swamps. When the lake has dried up because of the lack of canals, you find that it is difficult to go to the swamps. So, we would like to encourage this economic and commercial interaction by making sure that canals are attended to.

Madam Chairperson, I submit.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, we are discussing a budget which is very important to this nation. Looking at the budget for this ministry, a good number of people may agree with me that a well-managed transport and logistics organisation can boost the economic activity of every nation.

Madam Chairperson, today, there is K409,535,086 allocated to the railway, maritime and roads systems of this department of transport and logistics.

Madam Chairperson, I have checked in the budget, and we are saying that we are going to rehabilitate 150 km of our railway line from Chililabombwe or Kitwe to Livingstone. I do not know where we are going start from.

Madam Chairperson, I agree with other debaters who said that we need to move heavy traffic from the road to the rail. However, looking at our railway transport, it takes 20 km or, at the most, 30 km per hour. That is the reason people do not use this facility for transporting their goods.

Madam Chairperson, it should be important for us –

Mr Katakwe: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much.

Listening to the debates from various debaters, I am wondering because we are talking about the Ministry of Transport and Logistics. Do issues of construction of bridges, railway lines and so on and so forth fall under the mandate of the Ministry of Transport and Logistics?

Madam Chairperson, based on Standing Order 65, we are supposed to be factual and debate from an informed point of view; relevance. So, I am wondering.

Madam Chairperson, I seek your guidance.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, in order for us to make progress, we were here when the policy statement was delivered, can we, please, stick to what is on this Vote so that we may not go astray. Let us be focused on this Vote; the issues that are pertaining to this Vote so that we do not lose the people who are listening out there. Can we be focused.

Hon. Zulu, you may continue.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Chairperson, you may agree with me that Zambia is not a centre for logistics. Countries use Zambia to transport their goods to other countries. Zambia is a transit point for other countries. However, the infrastructure that it has, such as the railway system, does not support this. These are the things that we should start investing into.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister has come up with a plan to invest into the rehabilitation of 150 km of the railway line, which is a very good thing to me. It is in the Ministry of Transport and Logistics budget. If we can do the rehabilitation, we are going to add value to this line. We are not going to sit here and start agreeing amongst ourselves that we are going to promote this ministry without looking at this issue. We will be cheating ourselves.

Madam Chairperson, it is important to note that the Zambia Railways (ZR) today, which falls under the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, is not making any tangible profit. The reason is very simple. Management at the Ministry of Transport and Logistics has overlooked the broadened management level and has left out the production part which can put the locomotives on the railway line. This is not what we are doing as a country. The country now has gone into employing more managers than people who can bring value to the company.

Madam Chairperson, if you go to the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA), the hon. Minister is looking for money to pay TAZARA workers. Surely, if it had been in private hands, would he be looking for money to pay TAZARA workers? No. Today, private companies in Ndola make more money using the Zambia Railways and TAZARA. They make more than the owners of those companies. There is somewhere we have missed it. We have missed employing qualified logisticians who can handle this business. The logistics business is complicated. You cannot just take a graduate from the University of Zambia (UNZA) to go and learn it. That does not work.

Madam Chairperson, what we need to do now is to see to it that the business which has been taken up by private companies is returned to normality. Let the Zambia Railways and TAZARA take up the business.

Madam Speaker, they cannot tell me that today, we can be hiring 300 trucks to deliver fertiliser to Northern Province when they can just use 100 wagons and deliver the fertiliser. This is where we are missing the point. We cannot let other private companies make money. We cannot let the Government pay TAZARA workers. The company should produce services for it to pay its workers.

Madam Chairperson, parliamentarians who are in this House run businesses. However, they are here and their businesses are still running. How are they managing?

Madam Chairperson, we have all the qualified personnel in the Zambia Railways and TAZARA, but why are they failing to make money. These are the questions we should start asking ourselves. It is just important that we do that.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics may agree with me that when he checks withKasumbalesa Border Post, private partners at Kasumbalesa Border Post make more money than this Zambian Government. To park a truck at Kasumbalesa Border Post, we pay US$400 going in and coming out of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). US$200 goes to a private person. This may not be in the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, but it is related because it is its trucks which are paying those monies. The loss on the Zambian Government is too much.

Madam Chairperson, my calculation tells me that this country loses about US$76 million per month on that business. This money is being paid to private individuals. At one point, there was a President who I respected so much, the Late Michael Chilufya Sata. He grabbed that business so that the money could go back to the Government. However, at some other point someone, with the wisdom, gave it back to whomever the private individual, and he is still making money.

Madam Chairperson, why are we letting ourselves lose money to people who do not matter? This is where I have a problem. Today, at Sakanya Border, the DRC Government is constructing proper infrastructure and better than we are doing. The DRC roads were so bad as compared to ours. They know how to use toll gate monies.

Madam Chairperson, you may wish to know that today, for Zambian truckers to cover 300 km, they pay US$900 for going and coming back. However, if foreign truckers who come into Zambia through Kasumbalesa pay more than US$300, it is a miracle. These are things we do not look at. We need to start looking at these things. We need to look at how we are going to make money from these things than just giving everything for free in the name of creating employment. We are not creating employment.

Madam Chairperson, my last concern is on the Ministry of Transport and Logistics and the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA). We cannot keep on promoting Tanzanian transporters. Today, in this country, Tanzanian transporters can walk into the office of the director or manager at RTSA and get a road service licence. When a Zambian businessman goes there, the process he will go through is like hell compared to the one a foreign company is subjected to.

Madam Chairperson, Tanzania has built its own logistics system. Our friends have built their own transport system, which we have failed to replicate. We can do this by commitment and by being patriotic to this country. This is what we need to do. Time is not with me. I want to say that it is important that the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises Development starts engaging these people to build businesses and industries. Let us tell them that the money we are going to get from this industry could make a very big difference. The time is not generous to me. It has been very dictatorial.

 I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, allow me to adopt Hon. Menyani Zulu’s submission as mine, especially when it touches on Kasumbalesa and the other concerns that the hon. Member has been able to raise.

Madam Chairperson, I want to place on record that the people of Kanchibiya do support this particular Vote. In so doing, as a constituency that has vast water bodies, we wish to bring to the attention of the ministry and hon. Minister that the pontoon services under this particular Vote have been allocated K24.1 million from K13.1 million in 2022. Much as this particular increment is commendable, we think that more can be done, especially for constituencies like ours which seek to maximise the route between Kanchibiya and Luapula. It is the intention and aspirations of the people of Kanchibiya that we open up routes between Kabinga and Samfya in particular, taking advantage of the water bodies of Lake Chaya and Bangweulu.

Madam Chairperson, at the moment, our people take initiatives and have to paddle from Kanchibiya to Samfya or Kabinga to Samfya. Paddling takes them three days to get to their destination. When a water engine is used, it takes them about seven hours to get to Samfya and the quality and quantity of goods transported are limited in that regard.

Madam Chairperson, it is our earnest plea to the ministry that these particular water bodies do deserve a pontoon. They do deserve more reliable water transport. This is very important because once this route is opened, our people will have easier access to Samfya. Samfya is only a few kilometres from Chipili. We then can take advantage of the KasomenoMwenda Bridge to have access to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) market, especially that we aspire to become an agricultural hub as a constituency and district.

Madam Chairperson, it is also important for us to place on record that we do support the allocation towards railway maintenance. We know that the accidents which the hon. Minister had alluded to in his policy statement and the works which were done on the Chambeshi Bridge did occur in Kanchibiya District. We know that there is a way in which such accidents impact on matters of commerce and trade for our people. They affect the movement of goods and our people using that particular facility. So, allocating more resources to the maintenance of railway transport, railway lines including the engines themselves, is critical.

Madam Chairperson, in our aspiration to transform the economy and create jobs for our people, there is no argument and it is a no brainer that it is important for us to improve transport and logistics between those of us in a district like Kanchibiya and our colleagues on the other side, which is Chilubi District, represented by Comrade Fube, and the Luapula Province and what opportunities it holds for our people.

Madam Chairperson, it is also very important for us to look at ways of ensuring that we improve transport facilities, whether it is maritime or aviation. Therefore, the importance that has been attached to the Kasama Airport is commendable. We say so because those of us in close proximity to this particular facility can then attract investors coming far off. We can easily say to them that if they want to grow rose flowers as a business in Kanchibiya, it will be easier for them to off take from this particular facility.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, allow us to place on record that the people of Kanchibiya do support this particular Vote, with a clarion call that there is an increment towards pontoon services. Therefore, when the role is called upon, please may the people of Kanchibiya and the water bodies between Kanchibiya and Luapula such as Lakes Bangweulu and Chaya be remembered with a pontoon.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, I just want to take this opportunity to thank all the hon. Members who have taken time to debate. In essence, I also wish to take cognisance that all of them that stood up have indeed supported the Vote.

Madam Chairperson, I will start with Mr Kanengo, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabushi, who supports this particular Vote. He insisted that it is important for my ministry to ensure that we do something about the heavy cargo that is on our roads and how it is important that this be moved to the railway line. I think similar sentiments were expressed by Ms G. Katuta, the hon. Member for Chienge. She has also spoken about heavy bulk cargo on our roads and how this not only impacts negatively on the road infrastructure, but that it also poses a serious risk to our people who have to traverse the country by way of accidents and indeed, loss of life.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Chienge also went further to speak about the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) and the challenges that we are facing there. She wishes to see more monies being dedicated to recruitment of more personnel. In response, let me just say that we take heed of those observations by the hon. Member, but suffice to say that we did allude to the fact that as the country develops, we must equally evolve. The policy statement did make mention that we would now like to use ICT to help us in terms of the monitoring and enforcement of road traffic rules and regulations. I think that this is the direction that we would like to move in. This does not exclude the need to try and beef up on manpower.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Mulobezi, Mr Mabenga, did really lament on the issue of our rail network. He took us through an educative line of telling us the historical development of these rail lines that are indeed, over 100 years old. I wish to appreciate that information and say we actually agree with the hon. Member and this New Dawn Administration –

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, prior to the health break, I was going through the different reactions of the hon. Members and I was responding to the hon. Member for Mulobezi, Mr Mabenga.

Madam Chairperson, Mr Mabenga alluded to the fact that particularly in Mulobezi, there is an urgent need to revitalise the railway sector in that part of the country. He also mentioned that Mulobezi Railway was being operated by the Government and urged it to consider taking it back to the Zambia Railways.

Madam Chairperson, in reacting to that sentiment, I wish to correct the hon. Member and state that the operations of the railway line in that particular area are actually under Zambia Railways and not the Government. The hon. Member advised us on the need to look for equity partners to try and scale up the urgent need to revitalise the railway subsector. I wish to state that it has been the New Dawn Government’s preoccupation, through my ministry, to do something about the railway subsector. We do take cognisance of the fact that this is taking a serious toll on our road infrastructure and this should not continue.

Suffice to say, Madam Chairperson, that development is a process where one component leads to another. The New Dawn Administration took over Government under very difficult circumstances with depleted coffers of the economy. We are fighting very hard considering the fact that we are so constrained. We are not able to borrow because of the huge debt that was left behind by the previous Administration. We are working in a very smart and methodical manner to see to it that other ingenious ways of resolving national issues are achieved. Therefore, we have been engaging with different potential investors who are expressing interest. Obviously, this cannot be achieved over night and this matter is active on my desk to see that something is done about it.

Madam Chairperson, Mr Fube, the hon. Member for Chilubi, raised a number of issues, most of which were centred on pontoon and mechanical services. He also spoke about how this year’s budget appears to have reduced. Let me say that, yes, much as my ministry is an enabler, having been put in cluster one of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), we are not leaving any stone unturned. As I alluded to, the previous Administration procured a number of pontoons but they were not paid for. These were idling around – I think, I am referring to dredgers.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, the New Dawn Administration has managed to clear the debt that was left behind by the previous Administration. The operators who were employed to operate these dredgers are stationed in Lusaka and it is the ministry’s responsibility to ensure that it rectifies all these things. So, the lack of passage on our water ways, is as a result of years of neglect, of failure to clean up the water ways, and this is the problem that the hon. Member has been lamenting. Yes, indeed, we shall ensure that this problem is rectified.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Nyimba, Mr Menyani Zulu, talked about – I think, let me start by saying that Mr Zulu was spot on when he said that the railway companies in their current state lack capacity and this is why we are not able to fully utilise them. We have to sort out the economic situation of our country in order that a lasting solution may be found. We are fully aware of the issues that the hon. Member brought to my attention. Sadly, he also raised matters that do not fall under the ambit of my ministry when he spoke about border operations at Kasumbalesa. I am sure the hon. Member is aware that this matter has been with us for close to twenty-five years. We are fortunate enough that that concession period may come to an end next year and the New Dawn Administration will do the right thing in order for the country to benefit from that border facility.

Madam Chairperson, Mr Chanda, the hon. Member for Kanchibiya, also raised issues regarding pontoon services.

Madam Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members for their support and I assure them that all the issues they have raised shall be considered as we join hands in developing our beautiful country.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, I draw the hon. Minister’s attention to page 529 of the Yellow Book. May I have clarification on Programme 2125 – Government Printing Services – K29,580,861. Last year, we approved K14,548,142 for this programme. Next year, the ministry is proposing to spend K29,580,861, and that is a significant increase. Can the hon. Minister share with us the activities that the Government Printing Services, other than printing Government publications and other services, will embark on.

Bearing in mind that the equipment that can produce ballot papers has been put in place, which is work-in-progress, are we able to see this amount catering for that? The other clarification I have is on what you are calling Printing and Publication. This year we approved K12,765,142. There is a significant reduction on the budget line to merely K2,001,020. Why the drastic reduction? The last one –

Madam Chairperson: Hon. Member, I think two are enough.

Mr Kampyongo: If the Chairperson will allow me to come back, –

Madam Chairperson: You can come back later. We may overload the hon. Minister.

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, as regards Government Printing Services, the proposed allocation is K29,580,861. I have no doubt the hon. Member is aware that the Government Printers has been in a state where most of the equipment that was procured in the previous administration was procured exorbitantly. It has never served the country. There is, as an example, what we call miracle machine which was procured exorbitantly for close to US$10 million. This machine has never printed even a post card. There is a lot of restructuring of machinery and other services that we need to bring to an acceptable standard to be able to compete with some of the commercial entities. As regards what the hon. Member refers to as a reduction, the allocation is meant to facilitate the payment of personal emoluments and provisional printing services to the ministries, provinces, spending agencies and the general public.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Chairperson, …

Mr Kampyongo: Madam, I still want to ask the hon. Minister the same question I asked.

He did not answer accordingly.

Madam Chairperson: I have already called upon somebody else.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Chairperson, thank you so much. May I have clarification on Page 530 at Table 04, which is –

Madam Chairperson: Dr Mwanza, we are running out of time. Can you please be focused if you want to ask a question.

Dr Mwanza: Madam Chairperson, they have allocated Tanzania Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) K17,250,000. This allocation is the same as this year.

Mr Tayali: Page what?

Dr Mwanza: Page 530 from the Yellow Book, Sub Sub-programme 04. TAZARA is allocated K17,250,000. This is the same amount that was allocated last year. Could the hon. Minister share with us what activities are going to be achieved from the K17,250,000, considering that Government’s position is to recapitalise TAZARA and engage China, Tanzania and Zambia. Are we saying that the money is going to be used maybe as our counterpart funding for the recapitalisation of the TAZARA railway? Additionally, Mulobezi railway has been allocated K1,000,000, which is the same amount that was allocated this year. Is it by coincidence that the two railway systems were allocated the same amounts as this year? Mulobezi railway is 150 km and K1,000,000 is a drop in the ocean. To construct a railway line, you need at least US$1000 per km. What activities do you wish to achieve from the K1,000,000?

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, to start with the issue regarding Mulobezi Rail, I think that a more holistic perusal of the Yellow Book will reveal that there are other funds that are actually under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to the tune of K27 million. That will also go a long way in trying to rehabilitate and improve rail services. When you talk about TAZARA, I do not think that it will be prudent for us, as a Government, to sit on our laurels and simply say that we are bringing in Tanzania together with our Chinese counterparts with whom we built the rail infrastructure. I think that operations must go on. As a Government, we need to put in what is necessary, particularly, in trying to pick up some of the locomotives because we are really operating under very low capacity were we only have eight effective locomotives that are operating. To be optimal in operations, we should be close to over twenty-four locomotives. We are below our expected capacity in order for, at least, the company to be able to break even.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, can the hon. Minister to pay attention to my question and respond to it as I will put it.

Madam Chairperson, I did not ask about the price of the machines. I asked why Government Printers, which had an allocation of K14.5 million, now has a proposed allocation of K29 million. I asked the rationale behind this increment. It is as simple as that. I did not ask about the prices of the machinery. The second question I asked was on Printing and Publication which had an allocation of K12,765,142 but has been drastically reduced to K2,000,000, but the hon. Minister did not respond according to what I expected. I was asked why there is a drastic reduction and what they intend to achieve with this little money that they have put there.

Madam Chairperson, I can take advantage to ask the last one so that I do not come back.

May I seek clarification on Page 530, Programme 2115, Sub Programme 21 – Provincial Airports and Aerodromes Development – K55,000,000. May we know how many aerodromes the hon. Minister is intending to deal with within this amount? I hope that the hon. Minister appreciates that this is a very critical stage of the budget process.

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, while I agree with the hon. Member that, yes, this is a very crucial budget process. I think that the hon. Member is equally a long-standing member in this House who must know that certain questions are not for this place. Some of these questions may have been asked in the Committee for Ways and Means when looking for the finer details of what the budget entails. When you talk, for instance, about the earlier question, on the need for why we have increased, I spoke about some of the obsolete equipment that is lying at Government Printers.

Madam Chairperson, it goes without saying, the Government wants to be prudent and streamline its operations. Directives have been given that Government Printers (GP) must undertake all printing jobs for the ministries. Printing jobs will not be taken to other private commercial printers, as was the case in the past, under the Patriotic Front (PF) administration. So, we are putting necessary funds aside in order for GP to play the active role it was designed for, and not what hon. Members are trying to bring here.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, I refer to our Standing Orders No. 65. The information that we are all required to provide on the Floor of this House should not only be factual, but verifiable. Is the hon. Minister, who is very eloquent, and I am told he is now able to jog, …

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: … in order to report to the country that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government–

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mung’andu, let us not put political issues such as jogging in this matter. I do not think the people out there would like to hear that. They are interested to know the actual budget.

You may continue.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Minister in order to issue a very alarming statement that the previous Government procured a printer at US$10 million? We, here, are alarmed. The hon. Minister said the printer has never worked. In case you do not know, that money can be used to work on all feeder roads, not only in Chama District, but also three or four other districts, probably, Isoka, Bweengwa and Kalomo.

The Chairperson: Mr Mung’andu, you are now debating.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Minister in order to insinuate that US$10 million was spent and the machine is not working without providing evidence and giving us further information because we are now interested parties? These are public funds. This money could have been used in other sectors.

Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Minister in order to issue such an alarming statement and sit back comfortably as though he has not alarmed the nation?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Mr Mung’andu, in fact, you are supposed to bring that as a question to the hon. Minister who is, at the moment, responding to questions that are being raised by hon. Members. It is very difficult for me to even confirm because I take what the hon. Minister is telling us because he is heading that ministry. I am sure he has documents on his table or some pieces of reports that he is using from where he extracted that information.

I will allow the hon. Minister to clarify that point because he is taking questions right now. Otherwise, there is no way I can say the hon. Minister was not telling the truth.

So, you can ask that question, the hon. Minister is going to respond. You have an opportunity to do so. I do not know whether you had indicated or not, but please just ask a question to the hon. Minister.

Ms Sefulo: Mung’andu, why are you smiling?

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: I am smiling because two hon. Provincial Ministers, one of whom is growing younger every day, are telling me to sit down.

Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification from the hon. Minister over the K10 million he said was spent on a printing machine that is yet to print even just a postcard. Was that machine delivered? If it was delivered, what is its problem and what are the specifications of the machine? I believe that with such a machine, worth US$10 million, we do not even need to print ballot papers from Dubai. So, why is the machine not working? What is it that the hon. Minister can do to ensure that the machine starts working?

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, I thank the hon. Member for that question. Indeed, I was equally shocked when I came across information about some of the decisions which were made by the previous administration.

Hon. Government Member: Name them!

Mr Tayali: The machinery was actually delivered and installed, but it has failed to work. There was also a balance on this machinery, which the New Dawn Government is unable to pay. So, we have challenged the supplier to come back to Zambia to make this thing work because what we have seen on the card regarding the amount of money that was paid, is unjustifiable. This is similar to buying a presidential jet for UD$75 million and claim that it was bought at UD$195 million.

Hon. Opposition Members: Sell it!

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, the decisions of the past regime were shocking. Yes, most of the things we have uncovered are shocking.

Ms Sefulo: It will be a loss!

Mr Tayali: Yes, indeed, it is in public domain. The jet will be sold.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Chairperson, I commend you. You allow us to express ourselves freely. Long live, Madam Chairperson. We are here to speak and not to be gagged, that is why we get paid. May the sun shine on you every day.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Please, go straight to your question, Mr Sampa.

Mr Sampa: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme, 2115, Sub-Programme – 5001–Water Transport Services – K24,361,502. In 2021, this budget was K4.2 million but increased to K54 million in 2022 and then K24 million in 2023, representing an increase of 1,200 per cent. When the New Dawn Government took over from the Patriotic Front (PF), the allocation increased by 1,200 per cent, however, it has now increased by 55 per cent.

Interruptions

Mr Sampa: I also seek clarification on the next programme–

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Let us make progress.

Mr Sampa: Madam Chairperson, I am on Sub-Programme 5002 – Road and Rail Transport Services – K225,375,131. This allocation, in the last one year, increased by 35 per cent and now the hon. Minister is proposing to increase it by 27 per cent next year, from K177million to K225 million. I presume this is for ZamPost and Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL). Let me start with the question on Water Transport Services. The money is there, but we see the marines with broken down equipment. I was in Feira, Luangwa, when we won that by-election, I saw an ambulance, which belongs to the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) parked by the show. It is abandoned and no one uses it. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government bought that ambulance, but it is not used. Even at Kariba, the same is the case. That is why lives are lost. It is because there are no government vehicles to save lives. So, on what was this money used and how is the one we are giving the ministry going to be used?

Madam Chairperson, finally, on ZRL, the United Party for National Development (UPND’s) New Dawn Government promised that when it comes into power, all goods from South Africa, the Southern Province and the copper coming from the Copperbelt would be transported via railway transport. I live near the railway line and I do not see any goods train passing even in one week. Is the hon. Minister assuring us that this money put aside will be used to ensure that the goods train starts taking goods and the railway line becomes active?

Madam Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to speak.

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, essentially, these are funds allocated to facilitate the payment of personal emoluments, enhancement of navigation safety – precisely the issues the hon. Member has brought up – dredging operations to bring them to optimal capacity, management of water boards and administration harbours.

Madam, in short, we are trying to bring back systems in this country. We are trying to bring back a situation of normalcy where things begin to work and not where, as he said, water transport has been parked for many years unattended. This New Dawn Administration would like to serve all its citizens and this money will be put to good use to operationalise all these things that hon. Members bring to our attention.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, we have to make progress. We have questions every minute, but we do not have the luxury of time. For some of these questions, we can talk to the hon. Minister in our spare time. If we spend so much time, we will not be able to finish our work on 16^th December.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2123, Output Indicator 05 – Government fleet tracking system installed – Nil and Programme 2123, Output Indicator 08 – Number of Government Fleet Tracking System procured – 10. The hon. Minister will agree with me that vehicles are the most abused Government assets. If you look at Output Indicator 05, we had fifty in 2021, 150 in 2022, with zero under ‘actual’, and then the target for 2023 is zero. If you go to Output Indicator 08, it says ten Government fleet tracking systems were procured.

Madam, we are procuring ten here while our target is zero. Why did he not ask for money so that we can manage these vehicles which are being misused or abused every day?

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, the English say, “If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.” Yes, indeed, there are so many things that we need to rectify and the management of the Government fleet is one of them. The President has taken a keen interest in how we shall proceed in this particular area. It is our wish that more resources could be allocated, but we are competing for a very small cake with other needs. Suffice it to for me to say that we are actively looking into not only revising the type of motor vehicles for the different Government officials who are entitled to motor vehicles, but also many other issues regarding how we can prudently manage that and take away the excesses that have been perpetuated for many years. It is under this New Dawn Administration that sooner rather than later, hon. Members will see progress being made in this regard.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2115, Sub-programme 5003 – Air Transport Services – K159,798,453. I want the hon. Minister to confirm if this money caters for the expenses to finish works at the Ndola Airport.

Madam, may I also have clarification on Programme 2123, Sub-programme 01 – Salaries and Wages – K8,213,418. There is an increment in salaries and wages. I want the hon. Minister to confirm whether he is employing more workers and what skills he is looking for under this Vote.

Lastly, Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2199, Sub-programme 04 – Assets, Sub-programme 01 – Non-Financial Assets (Capital Expenditure) – K9,747,814. Could the hon. Minister indicate what these non-financial assets are.

Madam Chairperson, thank you for your indulgence. I am grateful that you have allowed me to ask three questions, which I was not allowed to do yesterday.

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, I am afraid the hon. Member cruised through those issues. I could barely follow.

 

The Chairperson: That is the problem. I have always discouraged hon. Members from overloading the hon. Ministers because they can get one question and forget the next one. Let us just be systematic. Two should be the maximum.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Chairperson, I will be very quick. May I have clarification on page 531, Programme 2115, Sub-programme 5003 – Air Transport Services – K159,798,453. Does this cater for the works that have to be finished at the Ndola Airport?

Madam, on page 533, Programme 2123, Sub-programme – 01 Salaries and Wages – K8,213,418. Is the ministry employing more workers, and what skills is it looking for? Lastly, –

The Chairperson: Order!

We will take those two. The hon. Minister is going to forget, again.

Laughter

Mr Tayali: Madam Chairperson, that was a lot better. In view of time, I will try to be concise.

Madam, on page 531, Programme 2115, Sub-programme 5003 – Air Transport Services – K159,798,453, the answer is yes. Some of the money will be dedicated to that purpose.

Madam Chairperson, on page 533, Programme 2123, Sub-programme – 01 Salaries and Wages – K8,213,418, the answer to the question of whether we are employing is yes. I think there has been room for more people to be taken on board. We have been operating with a skeleton staffing level.

Madam Chairperson, he asks what skills we are looking for, but I am afraid I am not in human resources to answer that question.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Vote 51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 52 – (Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation – K2,265,019,795)

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me an opportunity to present a policy statement on the 2023 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Vote 52 – Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam, you may wish to note that the ministry is mandated to ensure national water security and provision of safe water supply and sanitation services in the country. The theme for the 2023 Budget is, “Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods.” This theme resonates very well with the mandate of the ministry because water plays an important and crucial role in stimulating economic growth and supporting different livelihoods. Water remains an important input in all sectors of our economy and is the bedrock of the various livelihoods of our people.

Madam Chairperson, I will present the policy statement starting with the budgetary allocation to the ministry and areas of focus in 2023. I will then highlight policy and legal reforms to be undertaken in 2023.

Madam Chairperson, the 2023 National Budget is K167,321,733,563. This is a reduction of about 3.5 per cent from the 2022 National Budget of K172,987,077,535. In 2023, the ministry has been allocated K2,265,019,795 translating to 1.4 per cent of the National Budget which in 2022 stood at 1.3 per cent.

Madam Chairperson, access to water and sanitation services has remained low for a long time in Zambia while the demand for these services has been increasing owing to population growth and increasing economic activities. As you may be aware, access to improved sources of water stands at 72 per cent which is an improvement from 65 per cent recorded in 2014. Further, access to improved sanitation facilities stands at 54 per cent from 25 per cent as at 2014. While this is good progress, it also demonstrates that many of our people in this country still do not have access to improved sources of drinking water and safe sanitation.

Madam Chairperson, to improve access to water and sanitation services, my ministry will focus on implementing the national water supply and sanitation programme in both urban and rural areas. The ministry has therefore, allocated K1,879,320,691 or 83.9 per cent of its 2023 Budget for the implementation of this programme. This allocation will be used for construction, rehabilitation, maintenance and upgrading of water supply and sanitation infrastructure countrywide. This will involve construction of 500 piped water schemes in rural growth centres, construction of 3,305 boreholes and the rehabilitation of 900 boreholes respectively, in rural areas. The funds will also go towards the construction of 100 km of water distribution network through which about 25,000 households will be connected to water supply network countrywide.

Madam Chairperson, with regards to sanitation, the interventions will focus on construction of 240 water borne sanitation facilities in public institutions and places such as schools, health care facilities, markets and bus stations, and connect about 15,000 households to sewer network countywide. This will help reduce disease outbreaks and improve hygiene in public institutions and places as well as enhance menstrual hygiene which is key to keeping girls in school and cutting off dropping out of school.

Madam Chairperson, as a demand for water increases, it is important to manage and development water resources in order to sustain water availability for hydro-power generation, agriculture, tourism, water supply and sanitation, among others. To enhance water availability, the ministry will spend K338,630,604 or 14.95 per cent of the allocation on implementation of water resource development and transboundary water co-operation intervention. This will involve construction, rehabilitation and maintenance of water harvesting infrastructure such as dams, wells, canals and boreholes.

Madam Chairperson, the ministry will also focus on enhancing rain water harvesting through the construction of sixteen dams, rehabilitation of six and maintenance of ninety dams in 2023. These interventions will be prioritised in provinces with poor rainfall namely; Central, the Eastern, Lusaka and the Southern provinces.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, other interventions including include drilling of 100 exploration boreholes, develop and operationalised two well-filled, construct two rain water harvesting facilities for aquifer recharge, undertaken feasibility studies for dam construction and implement two trans-boundary water investment projects. These interventions will contribute to enhancing water availability for social economic development of the country and contribute to mitigating the adverse effects of climate change on water availability.

Madam Chairperson, the ministry will continue to implement surface and ground water resource assessment and quantification programme and maintain and upgrade both surface and ground water monitoring stations. This is important for measuring water availability, quality and distribution to inform planning and decision-making in terms of water allocation to various users.

Madam Chairperson, as you may be aware, Zambia shares rivers and other water bodies with other countries and therefore, transboundary water co-operation, governance, water diplomacy and benefit sharing are inevitable. Therefore, the ministry will continue to engage riparian states to advance issues of common interest regarding the management and development of water courses.

Madam Chairperson, in this regard, the ministry working with the Ministry of Energy and other stakeholders as well as authorities in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) embarked on a process to establish the Luapula River Authority and substantial progress has been made. Once established, Luapula River Authority is expected to unlock the economical opportunities for the benefit of the people of both the DRC and Zambia through hydro-generation, irrigated agriculture, water supply and sanitation among others.

Madam Chairperson, in 2023, the ministry will continue to regulate water resources development to ensure accountability in the utilisation of water resources through borehole legislation per meeting and inspections. This is important for planning decision and policy formulation.

Madam Chairperson, to continue developing water resources in the country, the ministry launched the Zambia Water Investment Programme 2022 to 2030 aimed at enhancing national water security and sanitation. During the 2023 to 2025 medium-term period, the ministry will expedite engagements with various partners and stakeholders with a view to raise US$5.75 billion required to implement the Zambia Water Investment Programme.

Madam Chairperson, the ministry will spend K47,068,500 or 2.08 per cent or the allocation of management Support Services Programme. Under this programme, the ministry has been reviewing the National Water Policy 2020 Water Supply and Sanitation Act No. 28 of 1997 to align them to the global shift to sustainable development goals from Millennium Development Goal of 2015 and provide for issues of climate change as well as align with provisions in the 2016 amended Constitution, among other. Further, my ministry will in 2023 commence reviewing the Water Resource Management Act No. 21 of 2011 to strengthen management and regulation of water resources development in the country.

Madam Chairperson, to facilitate smooth implementation of these interventions, the ministry will in 2023, under restructuring process in order to provide a robust and marching organisation structure to effectively implement the mandate of the ministry.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, I wish to call upon hon. Members of this august House to suppose the 2023 Estimates of Revenue Expenditure for the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation in order to improve access to water and sanitation for social economic development of this great country.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to comment on this Vote as I support it. As we all know, water is life, and the ministry has a lot of work to do across the country to ensure that the citizens of this country have access to clean water and sanitation.

Madam Chairperson, I draw the hon. Minister’s attention to the Zambia Water and Sanitation Project being undertaken on the Copperbelt, specifically in Mufulira. I am sure by now, the hon. Minister knows that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government started this project, the contract was signed in 2013, and it is being implemented by Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company. At that time, it was scheduled to take six years to be completed. We are now in 2022, and the works are still being undertaken. I appeal to the hon. Minister to pay particular attention to this project because the phase it has reached is actually the final stage, where water infrastructure is being replaced and upgraded, so that the shortage of water, which people are experiencing, can be a thing of the past.

Madam Chairperson, at one point, I raised some questions to the hon. Minister with regard to what the Government is doing to ensure that the people, especially in Mufulira, have access to clean water and he mentioned on the Floor of this House that some projects were due to be commissioned. I remember very well there was one project to do with the water works that are happening in Kansuswa, Kawama, Kalukanya and the rest of Kamuchanga all in Mufulira under the same project. The hon. Minister assured us that those projects were actually going to be commissioned in March and June this year. However, we are now in November and the Government is nowhere near commissioning those projects.

Madam Chairperson, when you walk through the communities, you will see the pipes that have been laid and the water tanks that have been mounted, and the communities are wondering what else is remaining. When the hon. Minister assured us that the commissioning would be done in March and June, I went back to the communities, held meetings and assured the people that by June, the communities in Kansuswa, Kawama and Kamuchanga would see an improvement in the distribution and supply of water. However, we are in November and we are still waiting for the commissioning to happen. That is why I am appealing to the hon. Minister to pay particular attention to this project because it started in 2013, and it was scheduled to take six years, and we are now in 2022. If we do not pay particular attention on how it is being implemented, we may not see the end of it and it may take forever. It is a very critical exercise and the people of Mufulira District are supposed to benefit from it. Since it is being done by Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company Mulonga, I am sure even the people of Chingola and Chililabombwe will benefit once the works are done. However, at the rate things are going, we may not see the benefits, which the people have been waiting for.

Madam Chairperson, as I said, water is life, and a day without water is a long time. Months have passed and the target that was communicated has not been met. This is worrying because we do not know when the outstanding works will be completed. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister to pay particular attention to the Zambia Water and Sanitation Project being implemented by Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company. He should ensure that all the milestones and targets are met so the project is commissioned as planned and expected.

Madam Chairperson, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mwandi to add their voice to this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, I support this Vote, and in supporting it, I would like to bring the following issues to the attention of the hon. Minister.

Madam Chairperson, first of all, I appreciate the New Dawn Government for increasing funding to the ministry from K1.3 million (K2,199,693,903) to K1.4 million (K2,265,019,795), which is a I per cent increment, and we really appreciate this. However, I feel the ministry should be sufficiently funded because water is life. K2,265,019,795 has been allocated to the ministry this year, but more money should have been allocated particularly to water and sanitation because access to water is very big challenge, especially for us in rural areas.

Madam Chairperson, in as much as I support this budget, I urge the ministry to create a sector that can be dealing in particular with rural water development so it can just look at that because it looks like so much emphasis is placed on urban water development, leaving out rural areas. I want to make mention that water is as important in urban areas as it is in rural areas.

Madam Chairperson, when presenting the policy statement, I heard the hon. Minister speak about water harvesting and this is very welcome. It is important that the ministry invests particularly in water harvesting, and this is one of the things that I have spoken about on the Floor of the House. I have never understood why, for example, in Mwandi, there would be flash floods but three months later, there would be a drought and literally no water. So, with regard to harvesting water, I hope the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation will also look into Mwandi, as it is aware that the people of Mwandi are suffering. There is saline water in six wards. We are providing free education to the children but we are killing them because the water they are drinking is very saline.

Madam Chairperson, what you invest in a child becomes a benefit to the Government. If we are giving our children saline water, we are killing them one drop at a time. Therefore, I urge the ministry to ensure that it invests in a water reticulation system in Mwandi. Mwandi sits at the banks of a river but the children drink saline water. Let me also make mention that when schools opened this year, the only Government secondary school in Mwandi District, IluteYeta Secondary School, had to close because the University of Zambia (UNZA) proved that the water the children were drinking was not suitable for human consumption. So, I would like the ministry to invest in a water reticulation system. If the Government invests properly in this ministry, Mwandi alone can feed the whole nation.

Interruptions

Ms Sefulo: Yes, it can. The challenge we have is access to water. For example, I went to Lwanza and I was very disheartened to see the situation there. The people of Lwanza, through the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF), had access to running water this year, fifty-eight years after Independence. That is why I keep on emphasising that we need to invest in rural water development. In addition to the boreholes that the ministry is drilling, we would also want to see an improvement.

Madam Chairperson, we also want the children in rural constituencies to move away from drawing water with hand pumps. So, the ministry should invest in solar powered boreholes so that the children can have access to water and they will not need to pump the water. There is no way, in this day and age, a child should walk for six hours to access water. It is unacceptable. So, I urge the ministry to ensure that it does everything possible to address this, especially that the children and women in rural areas are suffering.

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Water and Development is multisectoral because it borders on health and agriculture. The women are very willing to form co-operatives, but without access to water, it would difficult for them to do gardening and keep livestock.

Madam Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, the people of Mwandi would have loved to see better funding. I hope the ministry will be given better funding in the coming year. I also want to see the ministry create a sector that will just look at rural water development.

Madam Chairperson, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to discuss Vote 52. First of all, I commend the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation for his proactiveness in addressing or responding to our calls every other time we have water challenges.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue that I wish to bring to hon. Minister’s attention is that there is a lot of inertia and laissez-faire among his people, particularly those who are managing water utility companies. Some of the problems that people are confronted with can easily be addressed with the little resources that we have. However, it is a tall order to push his people to go and address some of the water and sanitation problems we have, particularly in my constituency, Nkana.

Madam Chairperson, it must be put on record that everybody has said water is life. It breaks my heart that a country that is endowed with so much water resources can have people going without clean water. If you look at our rainfall patterns, we enjoy very good rainfall. We have abundant water resources in rivers, dams, and so on and so forth. So, one wonders why we have failed to harness this endowment at the expense of our people going without clean water. I wonder when I see this allocation to the ministry because at this point, I have been expectant that the Government was going to continue to increase or rather put more money towards issues of water. So, for me, the reduction towards the programme of water supply from K1.5 billion to K1.3 billion makes me wonder whether we are slowing down or going back in reverse gear in addressing these challenges.

Madam Chairperson, I think that the hon. Minister is fully aware of the extent of the problems we have when we talk about water and sanitation, particularly where I come from in Kitwe. We are talking of places in Buchi where issues of blocked sewers are a daily issue.

Madam Chairperson, in those places, I think that the Vice-President will bear testimony when she did take an undertaking to Kitwe. The people are living in faecal matter. The hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts is fully aware and I hope that whenever he sits in Cabinet, he pushes his counterpart, the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, to move with speed. This is because there is a programme that was initiated years ago, the Nkana Water Sanitation Programme, that we got money for. I think, roughly about US$200 million from the people of China. God knows what happened to that loan facility. The fact is that works were started. What remains to be done is the completion of the remaining works. So, our expectation, as a people of Nkana, is what the hon. Minister promised us comes to fruition. He promised that he would unbundle that project so that he begins to source for money to address the unbundled project. However, every day, it looks like we have run out of stories to tell our people.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister is aware of the problem in Mindolo. Our people have gone for weeks, if not months, without water. The hon. Minister knows that the general feeling of people is that when they live near big rivers like the Kafue River, they think they should not be confronted with issues of water. We trust the hon. Minister. I know that the resources allocated to him are not enough, but like I did intimate in the beginning, we can do with the little resources we have.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister is aware that even with the resources at our disposal, in the name of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we have been available to support his endeavour, in that regard. However, I place it to him that his people have been a frustration because there have been several times that I, as hon. Member of Parliament, have undertaken to set aside some of the resources under the CDF to help his people at the water utility company in Kitwe to address the problems. The time it takes is the issue. I did bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister that at some point, there was a programme to address the issue of sanitation in Buchi, whose contract took, if not six months, I do not know, because the Attorney General could not give the authority for the procurement of pipes to overhaul the sewer system. Some of these problems are man-made because of our laissez-faire attitude. When we have water, we do not know how much our people are suffering.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I want to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister is that whereas it would be convenient for other places to have boreholes, it may not be as convenient for some of us who live in mining communities because of the underground mining activities going on there. So, it may not be as easy for us to put up boreholes as it may be in other places. Our dependence is totally on the availability of the water utility company to supply water to our people.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue that we must perhaps be talking about is that our underground water is heavily becoming contaminated because of the number of boreholes that we are sinking in all places. So, it is prudent, at this point, that we continue to invest in water utility companies for them to supply clean water. We have no option. So, the hon. Minister should rest assured that, for us, we support him because we have seen his commitment to responding to our challenges. However, there is a lot of work that he must do to ensure that the people that are his charge move with the same speed or have the same commitment that he has towards addressing some of these problems.

Madam Chairperson, as I wind up, I assure the hon. Minister that we are with him, but are expecting a speedy address to the problems that we are confronted with namely, the supply of clean water as well as addressing the issue of dilapidated sewer network systems.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for the opportunity given to the people of Mandevu Constituency to support this Vote. My good brother, the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation who is a very bad neighbour –

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Chairperson, he is a bad neighbour because he has water in his area but in Foxdale, we do not have water. I have been talking to my brother that there is need to improve the water situation in Mandevu Constituency.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to also take advantage of the Floor of the House to correct the perception that we, in Lusaka, are developed. Just here in Mandevu, it was noted by the Director of Water Aid, Madam Pamela Chisenga, that only14 per cent of the population in Lusaka is connected to the sewer line while the rest, 86 per cent, use on site sanitation. What does this mean? It means that the 86 per cent contaminate the groundwater because the on-site sanitation that people use is pit latrines. So, there is need for this ministry to improve the sewer network in Mandevu.

Madam Chairperson, in Mandevu, there are the Garden Sewer Ponds that have proven to be a nuisance. Faecal matter is drawn somewhere else and brought to Mandevu. Right now, we are grappling with mosquitos because of the overgrown grass.

The Ministry of Health has embarked on spraying for mosquitoes, but the Lusaka Water Supply and Sanitation Company (LWSC) is not cutting the overgrown grass up to now. Therefore, the mosquitoes keep on breeding.

Madam Chairperson, we would like the ministry through LWSC to come on sight and clear that facility. Otherwise, if it is not done, we would want to take it to Kabulonga because we are not benefiting anything as the people of Mandevu. We are just getting diseases such as malaria and our people are dying.

Madam Chairperson, talking about water, I want to support the K1.3 billion allocation for the improvement of water supply. I have said it time and again that we do not have water in Chipata Compound. Due to climate change, most of the boreholes have dried up. I give kudos to the Patriotic Front (PF) administration for the Kafue Bulk Water Supply Project.

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: It is a fact. Governments are a going concern. You cannot keep on blaming your friends even when they did something. We must work on the going concern approach. I want to implore and urge the hon. Minister to connect our people in Kabanana, Chazanga and just here at Foxdale to the Kafue Bulk Water Supply Project.

Madam Chairperson, I do not intend to use all my minutes so that I give an opportunity to other people.

I thank you so much for this opportunity.

The Minister for Northern Province (Mr Mbao): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for this very rare opportunity to debate this very important Vote 52 – Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation.

Madam, I will start by giving credit to the President of this country, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, through the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for putting up such an important and exemplary document on the Floor of this House. I also want to give credit to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation for the policy statement that he has provided in this House. Let us be sincere that this is exemplary. We are not used to such kind of well thought out documents and plans in this House. Therefore, I say congratulations to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation and keep it up. This is what the Zambian people want.

Madam Chairperson, the people of the Northern Province are very happy. They are now really appreciating that things can move. I will give a few examples. In my constituency, Mpulungu, our friends who are rightfully on your right –

Mr Muchima: On the left.

Mr Mbao: They are on your left, sorry. Thank you very much.

Madam Chairperson, they are rightfully on your left. The people of Mpulungu are happy that these people are on your left because they deserve it. The people of Mpulungu live next to waters. That is the house of the great Lake Tanganyika. Meanwhile, these people have lived for years without water. If you go there now, what you will find is a sorry story. However, thanks to the New Dawn Administration, a small project that the Patriotic Front (PF) failed in its ten years tenure is now seeing the light of day.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: Madam Chairperson, I want to say thank you to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation for making sure –

Mr Fube: Job seeking!

Mr Mbao: It is not job seeking. We are talking about realities. What job am I going to seek when I am already a Minister? It is you who is supposed to seek for a job.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

Is it possible that we can be focused on the budget? Just try to avoid the interjections.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

The Hon. Minister is going to ignore the interjections from the other hon. Members so that he can concentrate on this debate through the Chair.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Mbao: Well guided, Madam Chairperson.

Madam, in this budget, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has provided K1.9 billion, representing 82.97 per cent, towards the supply and sanitation infrastructure. These are things that we are not used to seeing. People would come in this House to say that they have developed this particular area or have done this and that business. When you go on the ground, however, you find that money was just being shared in the name of a region. We are not going to accept that. Things are now happening and let us just give credit where it is due.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Mbao: For the very first time, now the people of Kaputa are seeing the light of day. It is this Government (pointing at hon. Opposition Members) that failed to pay the smallest amount of K12 million.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Mbao: Madam Chairperson, these people failed to pay. When it was time to pay, they paid their own pockets. This Government is now showing that things can happen. The province is very happy. When go to the entire province, things are now happening.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mbao: Even the man who is standing to interject is just disappointed because things are now happening. He is from losing because people are now relating him to the failure that happened the time that the PF was in power.

The Chairperson: Order!

There is an indication for a point of order. Mr Fube, what is your point of order?

Mr Fube: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is based on Standing Order 65. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead the House and Zambians, especially that he is the provincial hon. Minister at the same time? He has referred to Kaputa and he also has a project in his own constituency, Mpulungu. I can even mention the contractors. As things stand, Kaputa has a state-of-the-art water project which was done by the Patriotic Front (PF) and commissioned by the Vice-President this year. Now, is this hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead us that these projects have happened during the reign of the United Party for National Development (UPND), when he is the provincial hon. Minister? He does not know that such started way back and were only commissioned during the UPND reign.

Madam Chairperson, I seek your serious ruling because he is misleading the nation.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members. Now we are debating the ownership of the projects; who owns the project? The matter is not relevant for the people of Zambia to hear. What is important –

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Can we focus on the budget. The people are expectant out there. They want to hear what they will have, especially when we are talking about water and sanitation next year. It is not about who started what and where we are we now. Let us look at this budget for the sake of our people who are listening and who have very big problems to do with water or sanitation. They want to hear an answer. So, please, can we be focused on the budget. Let us give the people of Zambia hope or answers so that they can be assured of the way forward next year. Can we be focused on the budget.

Hon. Minister, you can continue.

Mr Mbao: Madam Chairperson, I am well guided. It is not wrong to put things on record. When you have failed to pay, you have failed to pay. Is it a sin for someone to point out that here, you have failed? We are supposed to accept. Those people failed. President Hakainde Hichilema came for the first time in power and paid up. Now we have water in Kaputa. Is that wrong? Give credit where it is due.

Madam Chairperson, on the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), agriculture is very important. How are we going to do agriculture without water?

Ms Mulenga: Under indraii!

Laughter

Mr Mbao: Therefore, the people of Zambia and the people of the Northern Province, in particular, are very happy that K1.9 billion is being provided for water and sanitation. This represents an unprecedented 82 per cent of the budget towards the development of water and sanitation in this country.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Mr Mbao: Let them keep coming.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, in fact, this will be the last point of order because we have to make progress. We have only covered one Vote so far.

Rev. Katuta, what is your point of order?

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Chairperson, I have seen how some people are agitated. It is important that we tell the truth.

Madam Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order based on Standing Order 65. We need to be factual when we speak. Is the hon. Minister for the Northern Province, who is saying that this is the first time that Kaputa has had piped water, in order? Let me declare interest that I come from that side as well.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: I know that even my own brother has a house where he has water. He should have said that now Kaputa has improved water supply. If there has been that project, it has just been commissioned. In Kaputa, in fact, the one who started that water project for this water we have was the hon. Member of Parliament who was there previously.

Now, the point of order is this: Is this hon. Minister in order to mislead this House, himself and the people of Kaputa, who have had tap water?

I really seek your serious indulgence, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Ms Katuta, kindly repeat the last sentence, I did not get it.

Rev. Katuta: I am royalty, kwaMukupaKatandula, you should know that.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, just focus on your point of order.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Chairperson, is this hon. Minister in order to mislead this House, the people of Kaputa and himself by saying that Kaputa has never had tap water? Kaputa has had tap water. I am saying this because even in 2016, my own brother, who has a house near the market, had tap water. So, is he in order to mislead this House? I need your serious ruling.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

I think this again goes to the issue that I was talking about; ownership of the project. All the projects that are being done are for the people of Zambia. Whoever puts up those projects, puts them up for the people of Zambia.

Ms Mulenga: Ema Chair aya!

The Chairperson: As for having tap water, it is very difficult even for the Chair who has never been to Kaputa to start estimating when the first tap water was installed in –

Ms Mulenga interjected.

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member for Kalulushi.

It is very difficult, but, of course, there was a commissioning of a water project that we heard about in Kaputa. We do not really know exactly what that project was covering, whether it was the whole of Kaputa or some households which did not have tap water. So, it is very difficult. Otherwise, what we should all appreciate is that there was a project that was commissioned for water in Kaputa, but really, to come out and say these houses did not have tap water and this is the time that they are given tap water, is very difficult. So, that is why I even suggested or informed the House to, please, just forget about ownership; who started those projects or what is happening. The most important thing is that the people of Kaputa have water. That is very important.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Mbao: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for a well guiding statement. You have really guided us.

Madam Chairperson, the PF failed to pay for water in Kaputa…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: … the UPND came and paid.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: The PF failed to pay for water in Mporokoso…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: … the UPND came and paid.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: The PF failed to pay for water in Mpulungu …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: …the UPND came and paid.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: It is a fact.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: Let us deal with facts here.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: When you have failed, you failed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: Let us move forward.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: The President of this country, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, means well for this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbao: The people of the Northern Province love him because he is not about talking. They can see the results. The people of Mpulungu now have seen things happening. They know that they are going to have water, something that has never happened. When you talk about sanitation, it is a sorry story. Those people were just coming here to say that they were doing this and that, meanwhile people were going into other people’s pockets, which we do not know. There are a lot of things that we can talk about here, but we want to give credit to the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

The hon. Members’ time expired.

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, your time is up.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members. This Vote is very innocent, but the way we are trying to handle it is as if there is war somewhere. This is a very innocent Vote which is very important for the people of Zambia. So, can we take it in that way. We are here to represent the people who cannot be here, but are looking up to us to represent them so that water problems can be sorted out in their respective constituencies, villages or communities. So, as we are debating, please, let us keep in mind that this is a very innocent Vote, and very important for the people of Zambia.

Next to speak is Mr Zulu.

 

Hon. Munir Zulu and Mr Menyani Zulu rose.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

The Chairperson: Mr Zulu, Lumezi.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Chairperson, thank you for permitting the voice of Lumezi to add to the debate on this particular Vote.

Madam Chairperson, it has been said by so many people before us that water is life.

Madam Chairperson, the people in Lumezi are accustomed to drinking water from wells and streams where animals drink from. In fact, we appreciate the World Vision for having given us some boreholes in Chief Chikomeni’s area.

Madam Chairperson, as a matter of fact, some people who drink borehole water for the first time develop waterborne diseases because they are accustomed to drinking water from the wells, streams and rivers. In fact, I tend to wonder why colleagues from the urban set up raise arguments that they do not have water. If you go to the other side of the country, in the valleys, in the areas that belong to Chief Mwanya, Chief Chitungulu and Chief Kazembe, you will find that people drink water together with elephants and buffaloes. That is a sad story. We have had Budgets that do not speak to the aspirations of the people in Lumezi. I have gone through this particular Vote and I am hesitant to support it because it is not speaking to the aspirations of the good people of Lumezi. The people of Lumezi will be given a hand pump borehole that will feed households that maybe, 10 to 20 km apart. Instead of the young girls going to school, they spend most of the time walking long distances to fetch water. They spend most of the time drawing a time table when one should bath as a result of not having water.

Madam Chairperson, in 2024, I propose that we do away with these hand pump boreholes as they are a source of dysentery, cholera and many other waterborne diseases. How possible is it that 30 m away from the hon. Minister’s house, there is a cistern and a borehole. Each household has a borehole. Where is the clean water? Yes, we are privileged to have the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company (LWSC) that is providing water to most of us. We have the Eastern Water and Sewerage Company (EWSC) which provides water for the contemporarybourgeoisie but there is no piped water for a villager in Lumezi.  The bourgeoisies come to Lumezi to hunt our animals with bottled drinking water from Lusaka and Spain. Surely, how do we come up with a Budget that only favours those who are in the urban set up? In an urban set up, it is possible to walk to your neighbour and they will give you water through a hosepipe which is not possible in Lumezi.

Madam Chairperson, today, the only time we appreciate water, is when the rivers or the streams are flooded. This also lessens or reduces the distances these people cover to fetch water. Here we are trying to trivialise this particular Vote. This particular Vote should not have had to look at the urban set up alone. If anything, this time around, we should have had piped water in all the new districts. We have new districts in this country that still rely on streams to feed its people.

Madam Chairperson, I ordinarily drive into Lumezi in the night. At mid-night, starting from Nyimba, I see women walking along Great East Road carrying water buckets on their heads. These are challenges that we must address. Water is life. As I support this particular Vote, I urge the hon. Minister to put this into consideration without playing politics to it, that we need clean water.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to debate Vote 52, Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation. Indeed, I want to thank the hon. Minister for the policy statement which talked about fundamentals in this Budget line. According to the World Vision International study, 32 per cent of our people in Zambia lack access to improved water supply. Rural areas are heavily affected. About 49 per cent of the rural population still relies on unsafe sources compared to 10 per cent of the urban population. The national access to proper sanitation is still low at about 40 per cent.

Madam Chairperson, this limited access to water and sanitation, and hygiene, is indeed the cause of many diarrhoeal diseases that we experience in the country. In our country, we have systems that have been put in place. The Water Supply and Sanitation Act No. 28 of 1997 ushered in the Water Resources Management Authority (WARMA), which looks at the regulation of the resource itself. The WARMA looks at the resource itself. I heard the hon. Minister talk about the good ideas that are being hatched to try and capture some of this water so that we do not lose it out into the Indian Ocean when it is calm. That is a welcome move. We need to keep this water when we have it especially during rainy season. We also have the National Water Supply and Sanitation Council (NWASCO). We need to understand these institutions that exist. We have NWASCO which is responsible for regulating water utilities which are more targeted at regulating these institutions that we have formed to supply water to the consumers finally.

Madam Chairperson, we now, have these institutions. In Zambia, we came up with eleven commercial utilities, most of them broken down in provinces. Of course, the first one was the Lusaka Water Supply and Sanitation Company Limited which has been in existence for so long. It was replicated we have the Nkana Water and Sewerage Company, Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company and others including Chambeshi Water Supply and Sanitation Company which is doing so well according to the hon. Minister’s debate this afternoon. Now, at the centre and nexus of this entire thing, the ministry is issuing policy direction and is responsible for appointing these boards which run these consumer utilities. I need you to pay particular attention to the performance of the consumer utilities.

Madam Chairperson, the consumer utilities are challenged in terms of corporate governance.  Of course, we know where we are coming from and the reasons the consumer utilities are challenged at corporate governance. People who were appointed to run those ports were not even qualified to run them. Now, you are on the right trajectory putting in qualified people managing these water utilities. However, it will not go without me saying the challenges that the consumer utilities are facing. They are facing capacity in infrastructure. They are also facing governance challenges which I alluded to, which are of course, being addressed. They are also facing management issues. Sometimes, members of staff do not do what they are supposed to do because they have operational challenges. However, all these bow down to the amount of resources that they have which is quite challenging. I am elated that the biggest chunk of the Budget is put towards this whole new infrastructure to improve the capacity.

That challenge I alluded to will now be addressed by that allocation, by putting up new infrastructure as well as rehabilitating the old infrastructure to improve the situation.

Madam Chairperson, Commercial Utilities (CUs) are grappling with what is called non-revenue water, water that is treated at a high cost and distributed, but is not billed to get a return after spending so much on it. According to the regulatory authority here in Zambia, the acceptable level for non-revenue water is about 25 per cent. However, out of the eleven water utilities, none of them is at 25 per cent of non-revenue water. All of them are around 43 per cent to the minimum, and at 45 per cent, 50 per cent, and 60 per cent. So, non-revenue water is a cost because you lose water which you treat.

Madam Chairperson, unmetered water is sometimes consumed due to illegal connections and inadequacy of meters. All these pieces of infrastructure require finances. Therefore, this budget line is important and we should have been advocating for even more financing for it. If we had a way, we could have borrowed more money to put in this sector. We call them CUs because they are able to extract monies from the public and finance themselves. So, that can be achieved through investing in the right direction. The water utility sector is one area you can invest without making a loss. A water utility company can invest and make a profit because it is able to sell the water and people will pay for it.

Madam Chairperson, water utility companies are grappling with meters. Of course, the meters come at a cost. So, I would like the hon. Minister to come up with a deliberate policy to help CUs to procure meters to recover some money out of whatever they produce and supply. Further, an impasse exists between water utility companies and ZESCO Limited. The tariff at which water is produced is too high. So, there must be a discussion between water utility companies and ZESCO Limited, but of course, it cannot happen without the involvement of the hon. Minister because he is the policymaker. So, the hon. Minister should intervene in this matter so that water utilities can probably have a special tariff to use. Otherwise, they are now producing water at a higher cost than the amount they are selling it for. So, there is a need to relook at the tariff that water utilities charge, so that it is the right one. We should not just please the masses that this is the tariff. We should be objective about how much it costs to produce water and it should be sold at the right price.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity.

I thank you, Madam.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, I have seen that most of us are affected by poor water and sanitation. We needed more time, but we have to move on. Eight people have debated. So, I ask the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation to wind up debate.

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to wind up debate on the 2023 Budget Policy Statement for Vote 52. I have taken note of the main issues raised by the hon. Members of Parliament and I thank them for debating this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, I note the issues raised by Hon. Mwila, Hon. Sefulo, the Member of Parliament for Mwandi, Hon. Binwell Mpundu, the Member for Nkana, my neighbour, Hon. Shakafuswa, the Member for Mandevu, Hon. Mbao, the Member for Mpulungu, Hon. Munir Zulu, and Hon. Kambita, the Member for Zambezi East.

Madam Chairperson, let me briefly comment on the issues raised by Hon. Mwila, and he urged the ministry to ensure that it closely monitors the ongoing water projects on the Copperbelt, particularly the Zambia Water Supply and Sanitation Project. I want to say that most projects that we found in the month of August 2021 had stalled. They were very costly projects, but I am happy to report that with the guidance of His Excellency the President, our priority will be to ensure that we complete all the projects that had stalled. I am grateful and heavily indebted to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the Secretary to the Treasury for the support they are giving my ministry to ensure that all the projects that stalled are brought back to life and are completed. I assure the hon. Member for Mufulira that the project he spoke about is at 98 to 99 per cent and, very soon, we will commission it. Hopefully, it will improve the lives of the people in Mufulira in particular and the surrounding areas.

Madam Chairperson, I also took note of the hon. Member for Mwandi’s appeal, and she spoke passionately about the challenge of water in Mwandi Constituency. I assure her that I have taken note of her concerns, and her lamentation about the low funding. I wish we had more money, but we can only do with what is available. However, within what has been allocated, I assure her that we shall plan together. We want the input of hon. Members of Parliament with regard to the hard-hit areas, which require water-harvesting infrastructure, so that we can harvest water and use it during dry spell periods. So, the hon. Member should feel free to continue engaging us so that we can work together in addressing the challenges the people are facing in Mwandi and beyond.

Madam Chairperson, I also took note of the issue of the work culture raised by Hon. Binwell Mpundu. Unfortunately, we inherited the work force and the work culture was cultivated by our colleagues who were in the Government before we took over. I must admit that we are really having a challenge ensuring that we bring about a culture of producing results, which the President spoke about. So, I, again, appeal to all of us leaders, some of whom were heading ministries, to speak to the people whom they left on our behalf. We do not want to fire people …

Laughter

Mr Mposha: … because they are Zambians. We do not want to send them into poverty, but let them change the work culture. The laissez-faire attitude is affecting us. So, as hon. Members of Parliament and civic leaders at different levels, we must realign our work culture to ensure that we deliver the results to the people of Zambia. So, I hear Hon. Mpundu. However, he spoke about the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Project and this is one of the projects which had stalled for many years. I am happy to report to this House that we are working, and we have gotten this project back on track. After the approval of the Supplement Budget by this House, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, through the Secretary to the Treasury, allocated US$5 million towards that project to ensure that the works restart.As I said, we want to ensure that before we start new projects, we complete all the projects that were procured, unfortunately, at a very exorbitant price.

Mr Nkandu: As usual!

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, if I was given US$449 million to construct a dam and the network, I would probably do two or three more projects, under my leadership.

Hon. Government Member: Yes!

Mr Mposha: These are things that we talk about and sometimes it pains me when people with so much pride stand up and say they did certain projects. However, look at the cost at which the projects were procured. What was the intention?

Ms Mulenga: Engage them!

Mr Mposha: I am sure your guess is as good as mine. Going forward, in the projects that we are going to introduce under the New Dawn Government, you will see how we are going to be prudent with the utilisation of resources and ensure that the ubombamwibalaculture is not encouraged.

The Chairperson: Meaning what?

Mr Mposha: Meaning those who work in the field should feel entitled to eat from there.

Madam Chairperson, I have also taken note of Hon. Mbao’s contributions and Hon. Shakafuswa’s contribution. Hon. Mbao was on point. We found some projects in Mpulungu that we are pushing. When I went on the familiarisation trip, I found many projects that have been abandoned. He took me Mbala, Mpulungu and Kasama. I am happy that after the familiarisation tour, I sat with my staff and got most of these projects back on track. As we speak, he has reported that Mpulungu will be completing getting the projects back on track. In Kaputa, we found that our colleagues had not paid K11 million to have the Kaputa project commissioned.

Madam, let me make an appeal that when we speak about these things – It is not about who started a project. As you guided, it is one thing to start a race and another to complete it.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Mr Mposha: You cannot start a journey, not finish it and then claim success.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mposha: What is important is to start something, pay for it and finish it off.

Madam, I have taken note of Hon. Munir Zulu’s comments. Indeed, it is true. We need to ensure that we continue providing water as close to our people as possible so that we can reduce the long distances that our young girls and school-going children are covering in rural areas.

Madam Chairperson, I want to assure you that our focus is not just on urban areas. The focus of the ministry in improving the supply of water and sanitation services is to the urban areas, peri-urban areas and rural areas altogether.

Madam, let me appreciate the views by Hon. Kambita. The issue of high non-revenue water, as a result of the old network, and that of the high levels of vandalism are being addressed.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2119 – Water Supply and Sanitation – K1,879,320,691. The ministry has been allocated K1,879,320,691 to deal with both water and sanitation. From his statement, the Nkana Water Project has only been given K5 million. I am concerned about how he is going to improve water supply. Could he not have requested for more money so that we give it to him now instead of him getting only K5 million out of the K1.8 billion. K5 million will not do anything for the water project in Kitwe.

Madam, page 552 –

The Chairperson: You will come back later.

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member did not get me clearly. It was not K5 million, but US$5 million. The US$5 million is not coming from here. I mentioned that after we approved the Supplementary Budget, we got part of the money from there to go towards the Kafulafuta Water Supply and Sanitation Projects, which is in Ndola, and we got some money to go towards the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Project. That is the US$5 million I talked about.

Madam, coming to the K1,879,320,691 as indicated on page 547, the hon. Member should note that we still have room for support from cooperating partners. This is not the only money we are going to use for various projects. For various interventions that we planned to undertake, we still have room to be supported by cooperating partners. I would have loved to have more money, but I will repeat what I said. We can only operate within the available resources.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Allen Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2119, Sub-Programme 9002 – Water Supply – K1,300,038,194. In 2022, you allocated K1,513,168,269 and now it has come down to K1,300,038,194. This is for water supply and infrastructure development. Will this K1.3 billion suffice? I remember, about three months ago, the Minister promised the people of Chimwemwe that once funds were available he was going to look at our water crisis. Now that funds have been reduced, will he be able to accommodate us?

Ms Mulenga: He will not!

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I am asking for the page number. He was too fast.

The Chairperson: Page 551, Programme 2119.

You can continue, Hon. Member.

Mr Allen Banda: Madam Chairperson, page 551, Programme 2119, Table 5, Sub-Programme 9002 – Water Supply – K1,300,038,194. Have you seen it?

Mr Mposhaindicated assent.

Mr Allen Banda: Last year he allocated K1,513,168,269 and this year he has reduced it to K1,300,038,194. This is for water supply and infrastructure development. A few months ago, he promised the people of Chimwemwe that once funds were available, he was going to consider the water crisis. Since the funds have been reduced, is he sure this will suffice? Will he accommodate us?

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, again, if we had a limitless allocation of funds, we would have loved to have more funds, but we had to structure the Budget in a way that we are accommodated by what has been allocated. We will do our best to ensure that we can tackle what we promised within what has been allocated, but, additionally, we will be getting some support from various cooperating partners to ensure that we are supported with the various interventions that we are undertaking.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification page 555, Annex 1: Outputs by Geographic Location, 01 – Water Supply and Sanitation Infrastructure Development Resource – Number of Household Connections to Sewer Network – 16,000. The 2023 target was 16,000 and the 2024 target is 17,000. However, when the hon. Minister was answering some questions, he said the ministry does not just look at the urban set up, but also at the rural set up. Are we going to see this two-year programme of connecting 33,000 households to the sewer system? Are districts or constituencies like Nyimba going to see a sewer line connecting a few houses, at least even 1000 or 500 households out of the 33,000?

Madam Chairperson, the other thing is that –

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, I think one question is enough. We are running out of time. We want to conclude this Vote today.

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, the ministry will do everything possible within its means and within what has been allocated to ensure that the numbers that it has projected are taken care of. As to whether the ministry will able to cater for Nyimba, I might not give you the exact figures that it will be able to provide for Nyimba. Suffice, to say, we have provided these allocations and we think that within what has been allocated we should be able to upscale some connections in sanitation but also to improve the water supply.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Chairperson, I take the hon. Minister to page 547, Programme 2120, Sub-Programme 9007 – Pollution Control – Nil and Sub-programme 9008 – Environmental Management and Research – Nil. Is the Government saying that we are not expecting any pollution next year or would it be that this money has been transferred somewhere else?

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, I thank the first gentleman, the hon. Member of Parliament. I am honoured to have received that question from him.

Hon. Chisopa: Hear, hear!

Mr Mposha: Madam Chairperson, you may wish to note that prior to the August, 2021 Elections, this ministry was called the Ministry of Water Development Sanitation and Environmental Protection. The environmental protection function was realigned since moved to the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment. So, it is no longer a function under our ministry. That is why there is no allocation under that programme.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Madam Chairperson: Hon. Members, we must make progress. I am sure the hon. Minister is freely available, especially if you have issues or questions to do with your specific constituencies. The hon. Minister can attend to you. We have to make progress.

Vote 52/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 53 – (Ministry of Green Economy and Environment – K 774,748,986).

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Chairperson, let me thank you, sincerely, for the honour and privilege of this opportunity to deliver the 2023 Budget Policy Statement on behalf of the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment. Allow me also to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the transformational speech he delivered to this House as it has given a definite direction on how the economy is expected to grow. The theme of the speech, “Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods,” speaks to putting ordinary Zambians at the centre of the developmental agenda.

Madam Chairperson, it is gratifying to note that the Government has now started allocating more and more resources to the four strategic pillars of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) with clear and intended objectives fixed on realising Vision 2030, becoming a prosperous middle-income country.

Madam Chairperson, in 2022, my ministry received a total budget allocation of K817,205,158 and carried out the following projects:

1. there is an improvement in service delivery for environment management services;
2. there was a review and development of national policies and legislation of climate change, environmental management, forestry, bio-safety and meteorology;
3. development of the Environmental Research Strategy to harmonise sectoral strategies and rationalisation of legislations that concern the use and management of the environment;
4. installation of more meteorological observation weather stations to improve weather forecasting and information dissemination;
5. launch of the communication and advocacy strategy on climate change to improve awareness among Zambians;
6. development of the 2022 to 2026 Strategic Plan and the Green Growth Strategy;
7. recognition of more community forests management groups with over 3 million hectares of forests placed under the management of 150 community groups countrywide; and
8. successful empowerment of the under-privileged with concession licences for small and medium scale enterprises across the country. However, the programme implementation was hampered by insufficient budgetary allocation; reduced budgetary support because of the World Bank supported programmes which were winding down; and inadequate technical staff and transport.

Madam Chairperson, allow me now to present an overview of the 2023 Budget for my ministry. The ministry was allocated 0.6 per cent of the total budget amounting to K1,200,000,000 for climate change and environmental protection activities.

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

The House adjourned at 1913 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 1^stDecember, 2022.

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