Wednesday, 9^th November, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

TECHNICAL EDUCATION AND VOCATIONAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP TRAINING DESK FAIR

Madam Speaker:Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Ministry of Technology and Science has been authorised to hold a one-day Technical Education and Vocational Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) Desk Fair on Thursday, 10^th November, 2022, here at the main Parliament Buildings from 0900 hours to 1700 hours.

The fair is intended to showcase school desks, chairs and other furniture manufactured by various TEVET institutions.

Hon. Members are invited to the official launch of the fair in the Amphitheatre at 0900 hours tomorrow, 10^th November, 2022.Hon. Members are requested to be seated by 0845 hours.  After the launch, hon. Members will be expected to visit the exhibition stands within Parliament precincts.

Hon. Members are urged to be punctual.

I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

DEATH OF TWO PROSPECTIVE RECRUITS IN KABWE

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to issue a ministerial statement, on the matter of urgent public importance raised by Hon. Sydney Mushanga, Member of Parliament for Bwacha Constituency, regarding the death of two people during the pre-running exercise to identify would-be recruits in the ongoing Zambia Correctional Service recruitment exercise in Kabwe District.

Madam Speaker, the tragedy that befell the two prospective recruits who were attending interviews at Mukobeko Correctional Facility came as a surprise to the Government and, indeed, the whole nation. On behalf of the Government and, indeed, on my own behalf, I sincerely express my deepest condolences to the families of the deceased and sympathise with the entire group of candidates who shared time with the deceased candidates for such a traumatic experience. The deceased were participating in the first day of the recruitment exercise on Tuesday, 1^st November, 2022, which involved physical exercises when they met their fate.

Madam Speaker, since the New Dawn Government was elected into office in August 2021, one of the priorities has been to create employment in order to contribute to socio-economic development in our country. The New Dawn Administration has prioritised creating employment opportunities, especially for the youths as espoused in the United Party for National Development (UPND) manifesto. It is about giving these youths the security of knowing that they have a future in their own country. That is why it is very traumatising that the candidates died while trying to clinch an opportunity offered by the Government in this country.

The brief facts, Madam Speaker, are that the victims were among the shortlisted candidates attending interviews for recruitment as warders in the Zambia Correctional Service in Kabwe District. The interviews, which involved running 12 km within Mukuyu Farms situated next to Mukobeko Correctional Facility, were conducted on 1^st November, 2022. Later in the night, on that date, one case of sudden and unnatural death of a prospective recruit was reported at Kasanda Police Station by a correctional service officer. The matter was recorded as a brought-in-dead at the police station. The following morning, another report of sudden death and unnatural death of a prospective recruit was made by a relative at the same police station.

Madam Speaker, in the first incident, Kasanda Police Station in Kabwe received a report of sudden death and unnatural causes from the officer-in-charge at Mukobeko Clinic around 2100 hours on 1^st November, 2022. The officer in charge brought in the dead body of Mr Mubanga Chileshe aged thirty years, who is alleged to have died during the job interview at Mukobeko Maximum Prison area. Physical inspection revealed that the deceased had multiple bruises on the body. The police opened an inquiry file and the body was deposited in Kabwe Central Hospital mortuary awaiting further investigations.

Madam Speaker, on Monday, 7^th November, 2022, a post-mortem examination was conducted on the body and preliminary results indicated that Mr Mubanga Chileshe died as a result of right-sided subdural haemorrhage due to blunt impact trauma or injuries to the head.

Madam Speaker, in the second incident, Kasanda Police Station received a report of sudden and unnatural death around 0900 hours on 2^nd November, 2022 from a sixty-one-year old man of unmarked house in Kawama Overspill Masiye area in Kabwe. The man reported that his twenty-eight-year-old nephew, Stanley Siwale, of the same abode, died in Kabwe Central Hospital after allegedly being beaten by suspected correctional service officers during job recruitment interviews at Mukobeko Correctional Facility area.Physical inspection revealed a deep fresh cut on the lower part of the body. The police opened an inquiry file into the matter and deposited the body in the mortuary awaiting further investigations. On 7^th November, 2022, a post-mortem examination was conducted on the body. Preliminary results indicated that the victim had bruises on the body. The samples have been taken for toxicology and histology tests. Investigations in both cases are ongoing as the police await the final results which are likely to be received within four weeks.

Madam Speaker, the loss of life of two vibrant youths who were eager to serve the nation under circumstances that perhaps could have been avoided is regrettable. To ensure that no more live is lost under such circumstances, the ministry will ensure among other measures that:

1. would-be recruits are subjected to medical examinations before they are engaged to do any physical exercise; and
2. capacity building is continuously offered for our instructors to be able to appreciate the unique capabilities of recruits.

Madam Speaker, I urge the bereaved families to remain calm as investigations are being undertaken by the Zambia Police Service. The nation will be informed about the outcome of the investigations in due course.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Madam Speaker: Indeed, may their souls rest in eternal peace.

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Home Affair and Internal Security.

Mr Mundubile indicated dissent.

Madam Speaker: I thought the hon. Leader of Opposition had indicated to debate.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, let me start by appreciating the hon. Minister for this timely ministerial statement.Indeed, I join him in passing our sincere condolence to the bereaved families of the two young men who lost their lives in the very unfortunate circumstances.

Madam Speaker, the bruises and the preliminary report from the pathologist indicates that something could have happened to these two young men which wasunusual and indeed, to lose two lives in one training like that is extremely unusual.

Madam Speaker, which officers were responsible because when these young men and women are being tried physically, there must be presence of officers to ensure that any accident that occurs is responded to and dealt with.If officers were there, who has so far been held responsible for allowing the young men and women to be exposed to the danger where they could have suffered these physical attacks?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, let me state that this is the first time in the last ten years that a transparent process of recruitment has ever been done ...

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu:… where our youths are given the opportunity to apply and everyone who applied is exposed to being interviewed. This is the first time.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, what I know is that the recruitments in the past were being done secretly and I am aware that at one time, we had to raise a point of order in this House on how certain recruitments were done.

Mr Muchima: Correct!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I praise myself that at least for the first time, we are recruiting transparently.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier, I am not in a position to state exactly what happened because investigations are going on. The matter has been reported to Zambia Police Service at Kasanda Police Station and as usual, being transparent as we are, we have admitted that certain things were wrongly done. Hence, my admittance that as a result of what transpired, a post-mortem report is indicating that there was some violence that was occasioned. Hencethe report I have made. We will await the investigations and the actual report of the pathologist will be made available to the Government and at the appropriate time, we will reveal the results of the investigations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you very much –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu had made an indication for a point, but again, he exited. Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, do you have a point of order which you want to raise on your own question?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, yes.

Madam Speaker: What is the point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, let me start by requesting the hon. Minister to understand that the matter we are dealing with is a grave and so, when we pose questions to him, we expect him to respond precisely to the questions that we pose to him. In reference to Standing Order No. 65 is very clear that whatever we debate here must be factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister did not need to refer to the recruitments of the past because we are dealing with what is happening now. We can discussthat later.

Madam Speaker, my question was very clear. I did state that when possible recruits who are young people are running, there are officers available to foresee and oversee the processes. My question was which officers were responsible during the time the young men and women were doing their physical test. That was my simple question. I do not know why the hon. Minister decided to veeroff from answering my question and start praising himself for the killings that transpired.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order toveer off from the questions …

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us have some order.

Mr Kampyongo:… and shower praises on himself when there are two deaths that we are discussing here? Is he in order to respond in that fashion? I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: I have a seen a tendency of people having opening statements which sometimes are not related to the question or the matter that they are dealing with. It is a habit which I think we need to deal with from now on so that people do not make opening statements which are not relevant to the question that is being asked. However, with regards the handling of the question, I believe the hon. Minister answered the question when he stated that the investigations are ongoing. So, going beyond that, we will be pre-empting those investigations.

I think let us leave the investigations to be concluded and then we will hear the actual facts of the matter. So, that is my ruling on the matter. It is a practice that you politicians want to open with statements which are not relevant. That is true for both the left and right, a habit which I think we need to get away from if we have to manage our time.

Let us make progress.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, I am very thankful to the hon. Minister for the statement that he has given on what transpired in Kabwe last week. These two young people died while trying to better their lives. May God rest their lives and may their families be consoled.

Madam Speaker, according to the post-mortem that was conducted on Monday, 7^th November, 2022 and as indicated in the hon. Minister’s statement, there is information that the two young people who died had blood clots in their brains. The initial statement by the Permanent Secretary (PS) for Central Province was that these young people fainted and he appealed for calm from the families and general public.

Madam Speaker, if no trauma occurred and there was no external impact to the brains, why did the brains have clots of blood?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Now we have to call the pathologist to come and give evidence. Maybe, the hon. Minister can offer an explanation.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I repeat the contents of my submission to this august House. I did indicate that there is a pathologist report that is under consideration by the Zambia Police Service and investigations are going on. I will not go further than that.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Please, as we ask questions, let us bear in mind that the matter is still under investigation.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, the death of trainees who were looking for jobs is very sad and worrying. As a procedure, did the Government through the ministry or the Zambia Correctional Services sign any indemnity forms with the would-be participants in this training or it was business as usual that those who would just want to take the risk can be involved without taking that into consideration?

Mr Mwiimbu: No, Madam Speaker. There is no need. Those who have never been to the Zambia National Service (ZNS) training may raise such questions, but us who went through national service know that there is no need for indemnity. When you are being trained, there are always casualties. It is not any issue where you can say that the Governmentneeds to be indemnified.

Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that we lost these two dear sons and that is why we are saying that the Government is going to investigate this matter thoroughly. That is why we have not hidden any information pertaining to the death of these children who died in Kabwe.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, indeed, it is a seriously sad issue that we are discussing this afternoon. The bodies of the deceased have clearly shown that pain or harm was inflicted on them and we know where this recruitment exercise was taking place. Have any arrests been made? This is straightforward, and looking at the time that has passed, by now, we should be able to do that. If the Zambia Police is working, it should be able to make arrests. If no arrests have been made, why?

Madam Speaker: I do not want to answer questions and so I will leave it to the hon. Minister.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, maybe, at this point in time, allow me to console my hon. Colleagues for the disaster that occurred on 4^th November, 2022.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I am made to understand that there are queues at the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) offices for relief arising out of a disaster.

Now, Madam Speaker, I would like to answer the question. I have repeatedly said that investigations are going on. We cannot arrest anyone until ...

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: ... the investigations are done.

Madam Speaker: There is a point of order from the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. In our Zambian culture, when death has occurred, there is a way that we treat that kind of situation. It is very unfortunate that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, a senior hon. Member of Parliament for that matter, has decided to trivialise this very important and unfortunate matter.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, it must be put on record that in as much as we say question and politicise things, there are families out there that are grieving for the loss that occurred. It is in the hon. Minister’s statement that the death that occurred is unnatural. We would have expected the hon. Minister to take it with the seriousness that it deserves.

Hon. UPND Members: What is your question?

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Leader of the Opposition, what is the point of order?

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, a senior Member of this Parliament, in order to trivialise the loss of two innocent lives occasioned by the incompetence of officers under his ministry?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I am even getting lost and wondering whether we are talking about the death of the two youngsters or we are talking about something else. Please, life has been lost here. Let us give due respect to the people who have died. What is important is that investigations are being carried out and once concluded, I believe the culprits will be brought to book.

So, let us not politicise the whole incident. Let us treat it with the seriousness that it deserves. So, as you answerhon. Minister, please, bear in mind that there are families that are grieving. We will do the other issues after we have gone through the statement.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, it is quite sad and regrettable that we lost the lives of youths who were desperately looking for jobs.

Madam Speaker, among the measures that the hon. Minister has just stated, is there anything tangible that can be done? For instance, if you look at the North-Western Province, the youth gathered at one point in all districts. Some of them stayed for three or four days, hungry and dehydrated and then were subjected to such physical training.

Madam Speaker, what measures are in place in order to avoid situations in which some desperate youths come and stay for hours and days, hungry and dehydrated and then get subjected to such kind of physical training?

What plans does the hon. Minister have to curb such kinds of scenarios from recurring and lives being lost?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I want to state in no uncertain terms that the Government and, indeed, myself, are very saddened by the unfortunate death of our youths in Kabwe. All of us who are acquainted with the way we recruit military personnel will understand the circumstances.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to state that there was no incompetence on the part of the Correctional Service officers. The investigations are still going on. We cannotsubscribe to the incompetence of theofficers. Thereare other allegations that have been made by members of the public to the effect that those youths were beaten by other people and not officers, hence the investigations. I could not have brought out that matter in my report because investigationsare going on.

So, it will not be prudent, Madam Speaker, to subscribe to the incompetence of our officers. All of us who have been in Government and who know how military training interviews are conducted will note that accidents happen, but it is unfortunate that this incidenthappened as it did in Kabwe.

Madam Speaker, coming to the question that was raised by the hon. Member for Solwezi East, it is trite to state that there are certain processes and procedures that are undertaken when you are recruiting members of security wings; in particular, the Zambia Correctional Service, the Zambia Police, the Zambia Army and the Zambia Air Force (ZAF). The would-be recruits are subjected to physical training. During physical training, incidents and accidents happen. However, at this time, I will not categorically state the cause because there is information that is coming to our offices pertaining to this particular incidence. That is why I had earlier said, for us, we are very transparent.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, this is not the first time that we have lost dear lives during training, but because we are transparent, we opened up and came to this House to disclose in detail, without fear of recrimination.

Hon. Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: That is how a Government that rules by the rule of law behaves.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Otherwise, we would have ignored and said, “We are investigating” withoutdisclosingthe details, …

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: …but we have come to tell the nation exactly what happened ...

 

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: ... and when investigations are concluded, we will come and inform this House the outcome.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa(Mandevu): Madam Speaker –

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker,I raised a point of order.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lunte, there are ways of indicating a point of order. You are not supposed to just stand up and shout “Point of order”. That is why I have not recognised you.

Hon. Member for Mandevu, proceed.

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, the people of Mandevu Constituency are saddened by the death of these two young men. It is unfortunate that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is trying to do a bit of politics using these two deaths. I think we need to move away from such.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!What is your question?

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s statement, both the police andthe post-mortem reports have pointed to injuries of Chileshe and Siwale. My question is: Is the beating up of trainees part of the recruitment process for military personnel? If that is not the case, why has the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security taken long to arrest the officers who beat up these youths?

Madam Speaker: Before the hon. Minister answers that question, hon. Member for Lunte, what is your point of order?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order 65, Content of Speech. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is boasting about the transparency of the UPND Government when, in fact, he was motivated to come to this House to tender that ministerial statement based on a point of order from the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha. In the absence of that point of order, the hon. Minister would not have volunteered this information.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Who told you?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to boast in that fashion when, in fact, that ministerial statement was not voluntary, but motivated by a point of order from the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha. I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, we cannot assume that the hon. Minister would not have come had there not been a point of order that was raised as matter of urgent public importance. What the hon. Minister was saying, from what I could hear from where I am sitting, was that himself as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and his Government are transparent in dealing with this matter. He says that had they not been transparent, they would not have gone further to disclose the results of the post-mortem report.

I think, let us leave the investigations to be concluded before we can ask any further questions like whether anybody has been arrested or why nobody has been arrested. The investigations are still ongoing. However, as I said earlier on, you people are politicians and where you find a little opening to talk about yourselves, you do talk about yourselves. So, let us not concentrate on the little issues that are arising out of the matter. Let us concentrate on the important issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Bwacha concerning the death of these two young people.

So, that is my ruling, the hon. Minister was in order.

The hon. Minister can now answer the question from the hon. Member for Mandevu.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as I respond, I just want to state that I have noted that Hon. Shakafuswa is a witness and has evidence to show that officers were the ones responsible for the death and beating when, in actual fact, in my report, I did not mention anyone who is responsible. However, I am happy to note that he is there, he is a witness…

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: …that officers were beating the recruits. Let him go and report.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: If he does not want to hide behind immunity, let him let the police ask him pertaining to the beatings that happened in Kabwe.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Correct!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

The most important issue here is, if any hon. Member or member of the public has information concerning what transpired relating to the unfortunate death of these two young people, please, feel free to go and give information to the police so that you help them in the investigations.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, on behalf of the people of Chama North, I want to convey my heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families. I hope that the hon. Minister will quickly come to this august House and give us a detailed report on the real causes of death.

Madam Speaker, these recruits are men and women. I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are special considerations in terms of physical interview, taking into account that women are a weaker sex so that we prevent these deaths.

Madam Speaker: I do not know if the hon. Minister has understood the question.

Mr Mwiimbu:Yes I have, Madam Speaker

Madam Speaker: Okay.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as far as we are concerned, when we are recruiting officers in various security wings, we do not discriminate. We consider that both women and men have a similar standing. We do not consider any weakness on the part of any gender. For us, if people offer themselves to serve in a particular filed in the security wings, we consider them to be equal. We do not discriminate. Even those who are in the Patriotic Front (PF), where the hon. Colleague belongs, I do not think they used to discriminate women. If they used to discriminatein favour of women, there would have been more women in the security wings unlike the situation is obtaining now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned in his ministerial statement that no indemnity forms were signed between the Government of the Republic of Zambia through the Zambia Correctional Service and the would-be trainees. Since there were no indemnity forms signed between the Government and the would-be trainees, when is the Government going to compensate the two families?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, we are not in a position to say or state that we are responsible for those deaths. I want to state without any fear or any contradiction that from the time of independence to date, and in particular, under the Patriotic Front (PF) reign, there was no indemnity when officers or youths applied to be recruited in the security wings. It is unfortunate that our colleagues on the left want to shoulder the blame on the Government of the day when in actual fact, when they were in power, there was no such indemnity. I know, although I am not going to disclose, certain things happened when they were in Government. They should not force me to reveal certain things.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mrs Sabao: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Sabao: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65(a) states that an hon. Member should ensure that information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North in order to call women a ‘weaker sex’ when we are strong people and that is the reason we are here?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Chama North was out of order to call women a‘weaker sex’. We are equal in terms of gender.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to direct a follow-up question to the hon. Minister in charge of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, when you have an opportunity to serve the public and when you are given an opportunity to discharge duties under your ministry, you can either leave good or bad legacies. One of the good legacies that I would want the ministry to leave, is the legacy of correcting the recruitment process and exercise that is undertaken. What this death has revealed is that there are gaps and challenges in how we recruit officers. Does the hon. Minister have plans to change the manner in which we recruit officers regardless of how long this exercise of physical training or challenge that we subject our young people to is? Does he have any plans to undertake a review of this recruitment exercise? Ultimately, we need to change how officers are recruited. I am sure through these very unfortunate incidents, we can all accept that actually, the manner in which we recruit officers is not correct.

Mr Nkanduinterjected.

Mr Kang’ombe: I know the hon. Member for Kaputa is making running commentaries –

Madam Speaker:Order, hon. Member.

You have asked your question. Now, you are debating.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, my question is very clear. A good legacy has to be left in the manner we recruit officers. Are there any plans by the Government to change the manner in which we recruit our officers? This is a very clear question.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Colleague has indicated that as leaders, we need to leave a good legacy and I agree with him. One of the legacies we are going to leave as the United Party for National Development (UPND) is transparency in the processes we undertake our recruitments. Under the law, recruitment is supposed to be done in all the provinces and that is what we have done. Since he has posed a question, let me respond.

Madam Speaker, in the past, the Hansard will testify to the same, there was the recruitment that was done by our hon. Colleagues on your left, where other regions –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, your hand is in the pocket.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Sorry, Madam Speaker.

As I was saying, the evidence is very clear in the Hansard, that when they recruited, they recruited from one particular area to the exclusion of others. However, as for us, since we need to leave a good legacy, we have gone through all the provinces of this country to recruit members of the Zambia Correctional Service. We shall proceed accordingly, when we recruit officers who will serve under the Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force (FAF), Zambia National Service (ZNS) and Zambia Police. We will go to all the provinces of this country because that is the legal requirement for us to recruit. We are proud to state that that is exactly what we have done.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question that has been raised by my hon. Colleague. Even in my statement, I have already initiated certain measures patterning to recruitment but, we shall go further as we consult the necessary stakeholders so that we streamline the recruitment processes. We shall do that and I appreciate the hon. Member’s question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I refer the House to Standing Order No. 66 (1), on unparliamentary language, which states as follows:

“Unparliamentary language refers to the use of offensive, provocative, insulting, threatening or obscene language in the House.”

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, whom we all depend on for our security, in order to threaten that he will review things which we here on the left did, and he referred to us collectively? When I look at the faces of the hon. Members on the left, a number of them never held any Cabinet positions, and never made any decisions. Was the hon. Minister in order to threaten that he will review things, which we do not know?

I seek your serious ruling before we start jumping, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

When an hon. Member states that he will review something, I do not know whether that qualifies to be a threat. Maybe, it is the manner of speech and the context within which the statement was made, but there is no need to worry. I am sure there is nothing that can worry any hon. Member.

Mr Katambointerjected.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Masaiti, do you want to state a point?

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, I was just explaining to my brother that hon. Members sit on the left and right side and it is not a question of Ministers or that when our colleagues raise issues, they are pointing at a particular former hon. Minister. The former Minister of Home Affairs was Hon. Stephen Kampyongo, and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security said he was going to review many things that he has found out at his ministry. However, he did not mean that it was all those who were Ministers.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: It does not work out like that, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that. You have come to my aid.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: However, hon. Member, next time, do not speak from your seat without being called upon to do so. Please, ensure that you comply with the rules and the Standing Orders, but your point has been taken. I am sure the hon. Member for Chama South has taken note of that.

Let us make progress.

_______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

GAZETTING LEONARD MPUNDU POLICE STATION

88. Mr Simbao (Luanshya) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

1. whether the Leonard Mpundu Police Station in Luanshya Parliamentary Constituency is gazetted;
2. if it is not gazetted, why;
3. what the implications of operating an ungazetted police station are; and
4. whether incentives are available to police officers serving atungazetted police stations.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu):Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Leonard Mpundu Police Station is not gazetted.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, through the Zambia Police Service, has initiated the process of gazetting Leonard Mpundu Police Station to Grade C. Further, the creation of positions for this station in the police establishment has equally been initiated.

Madam Speaker, the implication of operating under an ungazetted police station is that all the personnel operating at the station are drawn from Luanshya Central Police Station and other stations. Hence, every activity or crime reported at the station is accounted for under the parent station, which is Luanshya Central Police Station.

Madam Speaker, all police officers, regardless of the places they are operating from are eligible for promotion based on their individual performance. However, since an ungazetted police station may not be on the establishment, the officers may be promoted using Post Identity Numbers (PINs) from elsewhere.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Before we proceed, hon. Member for Mpika, you want to raise a point of order, but there can never be a point of order on another point of order because before we moved to the Question for Oral Answer, we dealt with points of order. So, that point of order will not be recognised.

Mr Kapyangarose.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, do you have a supplementary question?

 

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I want to raise a very different point of order from the one you have just ruled against. I do not even know which one because mine is different.

Madam Speaker: What is the point of order and what is the breach?

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order in accordance with Standing Order No. 48, on the Whip, and it states as follows:

“(1)        An opposition political party with ten or more members in the House may appoint a whip and deputy whip;”

“(2)        Where there are ten or more independent members in the House, the independent members may elect a whip and a deputy whip from amongst their number.”

Madam Speaker, on 13^th September, 2022, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi, wrote to your able office to withdraw from the Independent Members’ group. Subsequently, your office approved his withdrawal. In this regard, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central in order to continue posing as the Whip for the Independent Members?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

There are thirteen hon. Independent Members of Parliament. If they have any concern, they can raise that point themselves. From the records, and from what I know, the hon. Member for Mpika is a Patriotic Front (PF) Member of Parliament.

So, hon. Member, what interest do you have with the Independent Members of Parliament?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Let them raise their own issues. If there is an issue, let them raise it with the Office of the Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Can we have order!

From where I am seated, I cannot know whether they are below ten or not. If there is a concern, they can raise it. So, that is an administrative issue, which cannot be raised here. Once the number of hon. Independent Members of Parliament is below ten, we will take the necessary administrative measures and that does not need to be raised as a point of order.

So, hon. Member for Mpika, you are out of order.

_______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security – K425,056,151).

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for allowing the people of Bweengwa to debate Head 15, Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam, crime prevention in this country is very important and I just want to thank the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for managing this ministry very well. Let me briefly take you to the past before I talk about the present and the future.

Madam Chairperson, during the time of the Patriotic Front’s (PF) rule, we experienced strange things. I will give an example of Bweengwa Constituency and the entire district of Monze. We know that the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security presides over the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs). When we were in Opposition and the time of mobile NRC issuance started, we experienced tough situations in some of the areas we come from, especially in the Southern Province.

Madam, before the mobile NRC issuance was introduced, thousands of people in Monze District used to go to the Boma to acquire NRCs. Officers at the Boma were instructed to not issue more than five NRCs per day. It was a tough situation and I was arrested for going to comfort our people in Monze District. When I was arrested, the person I called was Hon. Jack Mwiimbu. I will not mention what he told me and the way I was released, but the town on that day was nearly in flames.

Madam Chairperson, the situation was very terrible. When our people would go to get NRCs, they were given receipts and then told to go back after four weeks and that they could only –

Mr Kasandwe: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is on the Member of Parliament on the Floor. We have a Budget and a policy statement that was given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Standing Order No. 67 talks about the content of speech regarding the irrelevance of speech.What the hon. Member is bringing to this House is irrelevant to the policy statement that has been given to this House. Is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to continue being irrelevant when we have a policy statement on the Floor of this House?

The Chairperson: The hon. Member of Parliament who is on the Floor is touching on part of what was mentioned yesterday. Among the areas that were mentioned by the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security included the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs). It is only that maybe the hon. Member on the Floor is trying to tell us a story.

Could the hon. Member on the Floor be focused and minimise debating as if he is telling us a story. Let us debate.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, let me address the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. We do not want the hon. Minister to repeat what we went through last time as Members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) where we were given thirty days to acquire an NRC. We want the hon. Minister to do it differently this time around.

Madam, we went through an experience where we were transporting our children from Bweengwa to other places like Pemba and Gwembe. We do not want to experience that again. We went through experiences under the PF where foreigners and underage children were issued NRCs. We do not want the hon. Minister to go that route.

Madam Chairperson, we do not want to have the experience we went through when we were transporting our children from Monze and Bweengwa to Lusaka to acquire NRCs. We do not want to see it again.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

Laughter

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Chairperson, I rise on this very important point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65 which requires hon. Members to be factual when they are debating on the Floor of this House.

Madam, is the hon. Member who is on the Floor in order to suggest that there were foreigners who were given National Registration Cards (NRCs) …

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Mukosa: … and that he was taking children who were underage to obtain NRCs?

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mukosa: He said “the children that we were taking” meaning that he actually participated, although he has not provided evidence. Is he in order to debate like that without providing evidence of the foreigners who were given NRCs and which underage children he was transporting to Lusaka without providing evidence on the Floor of this House?

The Chairperson: From what I know, in the course of last year we heard on the Zambia National Broadcasting Cooperation (ZNBC) and other media how children were being paraded. I remember I saw a clip one time on the news where some children from Luapula or the North-Western Province somewhere there –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Chairperson: I am not sure about the issue of the foreigners except that there were also cries along the border areas. So, for me to bring evidence really – We were all in Zambia last year where we watched the news –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Michelo, can we be focused please so that we make progress. Otherwise, we will now start debating the issuance of the National Registration Cards (NRCs) for 2021. Can we please be focused on the budget we are considering now so that we make progress. In fact, it is better if you tell us what you want this ministry to do using the budget being discussed on the Floor of the House. You may proceed.

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, thank you. The direction which I want the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to take is not for him to start instructing officers to only be issuing NRCs in provinces where the UPND was so popular because right, now we all know that the UPND is popular in the whole country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: We do not want to start seeing you, hon. Minister, discriminate other regions. We are one people and we are all Zambians.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Further, Madam Speaker, I do not want to visit one of your officers the way I did last time when I went to some office and asked a certain woman I found there whether the Southern Province is part of Botswana or Zimbabwe. The woman asked why I was asking that question hon. Member. I told her that the reason was we had been discriminated for some time by the Ministry the Home Affair then. Please, we do not want you to discriminate any region in this country. Go and issue NRCs to all the ten provinces of this country. When that time comes, I beg you not to issue NRCs to the underaged in the Southern Province. We do not want to see that. Furthermore, do not issue NRCs to foreigners. Hon. Minister, we do not want to see that, …

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Michelo!

Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Twasa: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise on a point of order. I am rising on this point of order pursuant to Standing Orders No: 65 – Content of Speech.

Madam Chairperson, I stand here as a very troubled person because hon. Members on your left have stood on points of order and you have insisted that they produce proof of what they state. Even when they say that proof is in the car or on the phone, you have insisted that the proof be laid on the Table.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Twasa: Madam, I am, however, wondering why today, you have not asked the person on the Floor to produce evidence. Instead, you have answered on his behalf.

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Twasa!

Mr Twasa: Madam Chairperson, I am troubled because I find this ruling, …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

We cannot go anywhere if you are challenging the Speaker. For your own information Mr Twasa, there are different scenarios. Some scenarios require evidence to be laid on the Table while others do not. That is because those are common things that we see happening.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: So, really, you cannot challenge me and say that the way I handled the point of order was not fair. It was the issue that was raised. In my own view, I said it was something that was happening because we saw it on news. Unless you were not in Zambia. So, let us not bring or raise points of order on another point of order. Otherwise, we will not make progress. So, what I will do now is to stop the points of order so that we make progress.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: We are just wasting time repeating and talking about the same things. Can you wind up your debate Mr Michelo.

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, through you, I want to address the hon. Minister.

Mr Mwiimbuindicatedassent.

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, we do not want to see a situation whereby other political parties will be transporting people to go and acquire NRCs. We want this budget we are approving today to cover the whole Zambia; all the ten provinces.

Hon. PF Membersleft the Assembly Chamber.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, can you move quietly so that we continue with the Business of the House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Go!

The Chairperson: Order hon. Members on my right! Mr Michelo, you can continue.

Mr Michelo: Madam, I thank you for this opportunity. I am still addressing the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, we do not want the budget we are approving today to be concentrated on just one part of this country. The people from all the seventy-three tribes in this country are Zambians. Therefore, we do not want the hon. Minister to start segregating, not even a single province. We want him to go flat-out and issue NRCs without having machines breaking down. We want him to go and issue NRCs to all the Zambian people without giving us excuses of not having the required materials.

Please, go out and work extra hard without any discrimination of any kind in this country. This country is for all of us. It is for Tongas, Bembas, Lozis, Nyanjas and whoever, as long as he/she is a Zambian. Please go and treat them the way you are treating your biological brother or your biological sister. Please, can you treat the Zambian people equally regardless of the place they come from. We do not want to see a situation like the one we experienced under the PF.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity.

Madam, first and foremost, I thank most sincerely, the hon. Member for Bweengwa for the advice which he has given.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Hon. Member for Bweengwa, I assure you that I will adhere to your advice in the interest of the nation.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: We are here to serve all the people of Zambia regardless of where they hail from.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I just want to make comments and respond to the issues that were raised by my hon. Colleagues on the Floor of the House who debated the Vote. I will start with the issues that were raised by my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe. When he was debating, he raised issues pertaining to the construction or the change of use of the pipeline from Dar es Salaam to Ndola. He mentioned that the people of Zambia, in particular, where the pipeline passes will end up emulating the people of the Nile Delta.

Madam Chairperson, I want to make very clear that the people of the Nile Delta in Nigeria are fighting for separation from Nigeria and that is the reason there are activities that are inimical to the interest of the state of Nigeria. I would like to state is that whoever is going to be involved in terrorist activities against the country of Zambia by damaging the pipeline, which will be the lifeline of his country, will be held accountable. We, as the Government of the Republic of Zambia, shall ensure that whatever measures are required to protect the pipeline from Dar es Salaam to Ndola are taken. That pipe line which will be providing oil to the Zambian people will be protected. Anyone who will be involved in vandalism will be brought to book without fear of any recrimination.

Madam Speaker, I also just want to state that this country has always been united and has always been One Zambia One Nation. Therefore, we shall ensure that whatever services are being provided by my ministry are provided equitably. That is why we are here.

Madam Chairperson, to echo the sentiments you made, we have evidence in my office that children below sixteen years old were issued National Registration Cards (NRCs) in certain areas. That is a fact. I am also aware and have evidence that foreigners were given cards and even given voter’s cards to vote. That is a fact, but we shall not go back to what transpired before 2021.

Madam, as we progress, we shall educate our people to ensure that they do not get identity cards before they reach the requisite age of sixteen. As we endeavour to provide NRCs, we will ensure that NRCs are provided for all Zambians as they are not just there for purposes of voting. The NRC is an identity card which is a right for every Zambian. It enables Zambians to acquire jobs and services from the Government. It is, therefore, incumbent upon any responsible Government not to discriminate against any Zambian.

Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I thank the House most sincerely for the manner in which it has supported this Vote. I have taken note that even my hon. Colleagues who have walked out support this Vote.

MadamChairperson, I thank you.

Vote 15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police Service – K2,146,465,832)

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, it is with great pleasure that I have been given this opportunity to present the 2023 budget policy statement for Vote 11 – Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service is responsible for the provision and maintenance of internal security. The core functions of the service are outlined in Article 193(2) of the Constitution (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 of the Republic of Zambia. The functions include:

1. to protect life and property;
2. to preserve peace and maintain law and order;
3. to ensure the security of the people;
4. to detect and prevent crime;
5. to uphold the Bill of Rights;
6. to foster and promote good relationships with the defence force, other national security services and members of society; and
7. to perform other functions as prescribed.

Madam Chairperson, the mission statement of the Zambia Police Service is “To prevent and detect crime, enforce the law firmly and fairly in order to create a safe, secure, and peaceful environment for social and economic development for all.”

Madam Chairperson, in 2022, the situation in the country has been generally peaceful. In order to prevent crime, the Zambia Police Service has been employing different strategies which include community policing and sensitising the general public on the importance of upholding law and order through various platforms such as radio programmes and drama shows. Further, the Zambia Police Service continued the application of the law fairly and firmly to all.

Challenges Faced

Madam Chairperson, during the period under review, the Zambia Police Service experienced a number of challenges, thereby, affecting its service delivery efforts. These include:

1. low staffing levels. The institution’s current staffing levels which stand at 22,492 is not adequate to properly police the nation as the policing demands continue to increase as a result of economic and demographic changes witnessed over the years. This translates into 1:800 people against the United Nations (UN) standard policing ratio of 1:450;
2. non-payment of other personal emoluments. Outstanding arears as at 31^st August, 2022, on other personal emoluments stand at K160,190,722. This has adversely affected the morale of officers. Further, retirees and widows have continued occupying institutional houses, hence depriving serving officers from occupying the houses;
3. outstanding debt. As at 30^th September, 2022, the Zambia Police Service has an outstanding debt of K190,381,265 on supply of goods and services;
4. inadequate transport. The Government of the Republic of Zambia has made tremendous efforts in procuring some motor vehicles under the Poly Technologies Contract for the Zambia Police Service. However, the current fleet of vehicles is inadequate to meet the demands of the institution. Most police stations do not have operational vehicles. This inadequacy has hampered the way police officers respond to distress calls as it takes time to respond to reports, hence affecting service delivery; and
5. inadequate staff and office accommodation. The Zambia Police Service faces serious challenges of staff and office accommodation, hence impacting negatively on the provision of public safety services. The Government recently constructed over 1,400 housing units in some provinces. However, the housing units are still inadequate to cater for all officers. The institution also continues to use dilapidated buildings as office accommodation.

Focus for 2023 Budget

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service proposed budgetary allocation for 2023 is K2,146,465,832. The amount increased from K1,591,247,741 in 2022 to K2,146,465,832 in 2023, representing an increase of 34 per cent. The personal emoluments budget allocation has increased from K1,406,014,228 in 2022 to K1,890,186,110 in 2023, representing an increase of 34.4 per cent.

Madam Chairperson, the operations allocation has also increased from K93,949,789 in 2022 to K153,034,161 in 2023, representing an increase of 63 per cent. The allocation for utilities increased slightly from K13,282,930 in 2022 to K13,947,077 in 2023, representing 5 per cent increase. Food rations allocation remained the same at K56,925,973 in 2022 and 2023. The allocation for other programmes has increased from K11,544,822 in 2022 to K21,842,512 in 2023, representing a significant increase of 89 per cent.

Madam Chairperson, the break down for the budgetary allocation is as follows:

1. personal emoluments – K1,890,186,110;
2. operations – K153,034,161;
3. utilities – K13,947,077;
4. food rations – K56,925,973; and
5. other programmes – K21,842,512.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service is among the institutions that contributes to the mobilisation of non-tax revenue, which helps in enhancing the collection of funds that are needed for financing Government projects and operations. This revenue is collected in form of fines and fees, and includes the following: admission of guilt fines, International Criminal Police Organisation (Interpol), firearms, fingerprints, and police reports.

Madam Chairperson, with regard to the 2022 projection, the institution had projected to collect an amount of K73 million. As of 31^st August, 2022, the institution managed to collect K55 million in non-tax revenue. This represents about 74 per cent collection of the projected amount in the third quarter going by the trend.

Madam Chairperson, the focus of the Zambia Police Service will be to maintain law and order through crime prevention, policing services, crime detection, and investigation services.  The New dawn Administration is anchored on the rule of law. It is in this regard, that the Zambia Police Service will enhance enforcement of law and order through scaling up crime prevention, rehabilitation of dilapidated infrastructure, completion of ongoing infrastructure projects, dismantling of outstanding arrears, implementation of the approved Zambia Police Service establishment and capacity building. Further, the New Dawn Government will endeavour to improve staffing levels of the Zambia Police Service by recruiting 2,000 police officers in 2023.

Madam Chairperson, the summary of the proposed allocation for 2023 is K2,146,465,832 broken down as indicated earlier.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe):  Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this time to contribute something to the debate on this Head.

Madam Chairperson, before I go further in my debate, I would like to take time to congratulate the Patriotic Front (PF) for winning two by-elections. Maybe, let me also congratulate the Ruling Party for winning twenty-one out of twenty-two elections. This is how it is supposed to be. I also take advantage of this time to congratulate the two hon. Members of Parliament who have just come to join this House.

Madam Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, I also thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for having increased the Budget for this Head. Indeed, all of us need peace. Previously, when we were in the Opposition, peace was a challenge. We thank God that there are some hon. Ministers who are in the Opposition now, who were able to do a good job. We are supposed to give credit where it is due and appreciate. This time, this is a lesson to the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government. We have learnt a lot from the PF and it is high time we started doing things the right way.

Madam Chairperson, I have seen that on crime prevention, which has been a thorn in the flesh, the Budget has been improved significantly from K2 million to about K53 million. This is a very good job. We are hoping that things are going to get better than the way they used to be.

Madam Chairperson, in the same vein, I want to talk about infrastructure development. Indeed, some works were done. Houses and police stations were constructed. However, Mufumbwe has never benefited anything in that manner. So, while you are considering other places, do not avoid the so-called perceived Opposition areas but consider the One Zambia, One Nation motto, not One Zambia, One Side, as it used to be. The people of Mufumbwe are asking to be considered. In fact, one of the assurances that was made is about finishing the houses in Serenje. Indeed, when I look into this Budget, I can see that this Government is doing the right thing. It has decided to make sure that assurance is actualised in Serenje. That is a very good thing.

Madam Chairperson, I am asking the hon. Minister to consider Mufumbwe which has never had a police station. He will agree with me that the time when we were campaigning, there was no police station there. The officers there are still squatting in a place which used to be for the building department. So, I am asking that Mufumbwe be considered this time because it has never benefited. I have been told that even Kalumbila never benefited, indeed.

Madam Chairperson, the other thing that I want to talk about is the issue of crime prevention and detection. The hon. Minister will agree that in the rural areas, especially Mufumbwe which is so vast, there is need to have transport because from the first ward to the last ward, there are 460 km. Now, how do you expect officers to operate in such an arrangement without a vehicle? This has been a very, very, big problem, as you may be aware. Also, this time around, I think the officers should be given what is called Crime Detection Fund (CDF). This is going to help them. Whenever they have this fund, they can run –

Interruptions

Mr Kamondo:  Madam Chairperson, I am not talking about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which is very popular. I am talking about this fund which is going to help officers to perform their duties as it is supposed to be. On the rations and fuel, you will find that officers in Mufumbwe do not receive enough rations. They are supposed to receive at least 1,000 litres but they only receive about 200 litres. When they go to beg vehicles, those people they beg from also want to get some fuel from there. At the end of the day, the officers become non-performers and people start asking whether the ministry is doing a good job or not. It is because the police are not well-funded. However, this Budget that I see, I am sure it is going to solve some of these problems.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I want to talk about is that of Karavinas. In Mufumbwe, we have had more than five cases of Karavinas. Usually, police officers are not given the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and it is very difficult for them to even get information. You see other departments, like the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), performing very well because they receive some money which helps them to actually run around. Mind you, sometimes, you get information easily. Other times, you have to buy it because you have to make a phone call. However, police officers this time around do not even have money but, sometimes, they have to contribute money in order to perform government work.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about accommodation, which I earlier alluded to. In Mufumbwe, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has never constructed even a single house. So, police officers are only squatting and the staffing levels are also very low inMufumbwe. There are only thirty-one officers instead of seventy. So, this is also a big challenge, and the officers cannot perform their work very well.

Madam Chairperson, when I look at this allocation, I feel excited. Even the people of Mufumbwe are excited because they think that this budget will sort out some of the problems that they have been undergoing. In terms of transport, I want the hon. Minister to state whether the Government still has intentions to buy vehicles for all the police stations or districts because we heard about this from the media, but we do not know whether that is true. We do not know whether we should go ahead and use the CDF to purchase those vehicles. So, when answering, the hon. Minister should actually talk about this.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Chairperson, thank you for according the people of Isoka an opportunity to add their voice to this matter.

Madam Chairperson, the security of every society is key. The women and men in uniform need a lot in order for them to perform well because when they are performing in harsh conditions, they cannot be motivated.

Madam Chairperson, in my constituency, Isoka Constituency, we have a problem at the police station. The police do not have transport, so, most of the time when there is a problem, this becomes a challenge. Some wards are very far from the police station and when there is a murder case ...

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Can we have order on my right!

Ms Nakaponda: … in one of the wards, for instance in Kanyala, which borders Malawi, the officers find it difficult to go there because they do not have transport. Most of the time, they just go and borrow vehicles from other departments. So, I urge the Government to look into that and ensure that it procures vehicles for the police officers. It can also procure motorbikes for them to ease their operations.

Madam Chairperson, the other problem in my constituency is that police officers do not have proper accommodation. They live in houses which have many cracks.

Mr Nkanduinterjected.

Ms Nakaponda: Excuse me. Do not disturb me.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

Can you leave the hon. Member to debate freely without interjecting her.

You can continue.

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Chairperson, thank you for protecting me.

Madam Chairperson, the police officers do not have proper accommodation to stay in and most of the time, they squat. The station inspector and other police officers stay very far away from the police station so it becomes very difficult for them to be together when there is an emergency. So, I urge the Government to continue constructing or renovating houses for officers so they can stay in a conducive environment. When they stay in a conducive environment, they will be motivated. The police officers in Isoka Constituency do not also have a good police station. When you go to their offices, you find that the chairs or furniture they sit on is all broken. So, I urge the Government to ensure that it procures good furniture for police officers for them to be motivated.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also urge the Government to make sure that it increases salaries for police officers because their salaries are very low and that is why you find them being involved in corruption and crime. Last time, there was an instance where a police officer at a roadblock got into one of the buses, removed his hat and told the driver to give him a ka sumfing. So, when you increase their salaries, they will not engage in those vices. So, I urge the Government to look into that so that the salaries for the police officers are looked into.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Chairlady, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Vote on the Floor.

I note from a glance, Madam Chairlady, that the amount allocated to this Vote seems to be astronomical at face value –

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Mulebwa!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Chairperson, I stand on a very important procedural point of order. According to our Standing Orders, when you take that Chair, you are not Madam Chair or Madam Chairlady. You are must be addressed as Madam Chairperson. However, I note with great concern that many hon. Members of Parliament debating are referring to you as Chair and Madam Chairlady. This clearly indicates that we are missing workshops and hon. Members need to learn. They need to address you as Madam Chairperson and not Madam Chair or Chairlady.

I thank you, Madam.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Thank you so much for that observation. Of course, we have heard some hon. Members say Madam Speaker and Madam Chairperson even when there is Mr Speaker, although I do not know whether there is Chairlady. I think we all know that when we are in the Committee of the Whole House, the person chairing is referred to as Chairperson. In this case, I am female and, therefore, I am Madam Chairperson, or when the Second Deputy Speaker is here, he is referred to as Mr Chairperson.

Thank you for that observation. Can we stick to the title we are supposed to use when the House is in the Committee of the Whole House, so that we do not confuse the public out there.

Mr Mulebwa, you can continue.

Mr Mulebwa: Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.

Madam, as I said earlier, from the first glance, the amount looks astronomical, but then, when we compare it with the needs that need to be met, to me, it seems to be shrinking. The Zambia Police Service, in my own view, is among the best in the world. When the Zambia Police Service means to get on a case, it is really good and I salute it for that, and I think that according it more finances will help it even more and boost its morale.

Madam Chairperson, when I look at the transport sector, the Zambia Police Service is a sorry sight. I have been privileged to travel a bit in the world and I have seen how the Zambia Police Service is treated in certain jurisdictions. When a phone call is made to thepolice, you will be surprised that within five minutes, five or six police vehicles will be at the scene of whatever, whereas, when we call on our police, be it in person or by phone, you will either be told that there is no transport for police to use to go to the scene, if transport is there, there will be no fuel. So, looking at the fact that the Zambia Police Service, too, will soon employ moreofficers, the amount that has been awarded to this Vote definitely needs to be raised.

Madam Chairperson, I am quite gratified to note that within this Vote there will be some housing units that will be built for the police services, but it does not state how many units there will be. If we will have more units, it simply means more finances will be needed and that being the case, this Vote, I suppose, needs more financing. Many times, I havewitnessed with sadness police officers from the traffic section are trying to ensure thatthere is law and order, traffic wise, and some offenders have just driven past them and officers have been left just looking helplessly because they do nothave adequate transport to pursue the would-be offenders. So, seeing that transport is one of the issues that will be addressed by this budget kind of gratifies me. I feel that at some point, we will maintain law and order on our roads. As we have seen in the recent past, many accidents have happened as a result of either careless driving or maybe the vehicles that are on the road are not road worthy and so on. However, having traffic officers being equipped with more transport is really going to help us and it is a positive move in the right direction.

Having said this Madam Chairperson, on the flip side of the coin, I would like to see corresponding results coming from the Zambia Police Service on how they will be aggressive in dealing with wouldbe offenders. Every year,we have seen countless roadblocks and check points everywhere but I have never really seen a time when those check points, maybe I am just assuming, bring in tangible results like we would read in the paper saying a vehicle was caught doing something. We do not see those results. Sometimes I drive in the evening or very early in the morning between Lusaka and the Copperbelt and sometimes I have seen old trucks without tail lights or lights and when they get to a check point, they are made to pass as though they were driving a road worthy vehicle. I would like to see results and more seriousness coming from the Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, I am sure that the officers who have come to hear for themselves have seen how serious we, as Parliamentarians, have been in debating and supporting this budget. So, we would not want this time to go to waste when we do not seem to see results after the police have been equipped with the necessary equipment that they need to be effective.

With these few words Madam Chairperson, I strongly support this Vote.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Chairperson, I thankyou fortheopportunity given to the people in Magoye Constituency, on behalf of Chief Hanjalika and Mwanachingwala, to add a voice on this very important Vote.

Madam Chairperson, let me begin by saying that I congratulate the New Dawn Government for ably handling the rule of law. In the recent past, we have seen people being arrested and released within the shortest period of time. This shows prudence in the way the New Dawn Government is handling the rule of law.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Malambo: Congratulations to you, hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malambo: Madam Chairperson, let me dwell a little bit on issues that are happening in our constituencies pertaining to the insecurity that we have. Magoye Constituency is a rural constituency that has grown with more than 100,000 people. This constituency is agriculture oriented of which theft has become the order of the day. In the eastern side of Magoye Constituency, we have seen people being killed regularly …

Mr Mufalali: By Lozi karavinas!

Mr Malambo: … by the so-called cattle rustlers.

Madam Chairperson, in the eastern side of our constituency, we do nothave a single policepost. There isonly one police officer who mansChivuna area and insecurity is the order of the day. I feel that it is highly imperative to consider constructing a functional police post to ensure that we manage security in that kind of place.

Madam Chairperson, in the western side of Magoye Constituency we have farmers who are keep cattle. Cattle rustling has become the order of the day. Again, in the Western side, we do not have any police post. My appeal again, to the hon. Minister,is to consider putting up a police post in that area so that security can be enhanced.

Madam Chairperson, let me add a few words on the way the New Dawn Government, through the Ministry ofHome Affairs and Internal Security, in the way they have ably handled the recruitment exercise that has happened. I know that there is an impending recruitment of police officers and I love to believe that the hon. Minister is going to ensure that he will recruit people on non-partisan lines like we saw in the past.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Malambo: Madam Chairperson, in the previous past, we saw that …

Mr Mabeta: PF!

Mr Malambo: …they were recruiting people on political grounds. For as long as you patronised the party, you were considered to pick up a job.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Malambo: However, this time around, in the New Dawn Government, I have seen the recruitment in correctional facilities that has been done so prudently to an extent where every area in thecountry has been considered.

Mr Mabeta: Exactly!

Mr Malambo: This is what we think should be done as the police officers get recruited.

Madam Chairperson, let me conclude by talking about the arrests and brutalities that were happening before. Many of us are victims of the Sesheke and Luanshya saga. We are victims of the Sun FM saga where some people had to escape through the roof. This was under the brutality of some regime, which I believe was too brutal to be considered a Government. To some extent, we were run by a militia that was not considerate of human rights.

Madam Chairperson, I feel that in the New Dawn Government, we are trying our very best to ensure that the rule of law and the application of the Public Order Act is enhanced. Human rights were affected so much. There was invasion of people’s privacy where people’s homes were ransacked. Police officers would go into somebody’s house, steal drinks and urinate in the house to merely attack a presidential candidate. That, we do not want to see in the New Dawn.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to debate Vote 11.

Madam Speaker, indeed, the mandate of the Zambia Police Service is well known. It is that of maintaining law and order and ensuring that there is peace at all times in the nation. So, we must appreciate its role. I have seen that the hon. Minister has increased the overall allocation from K1,584,063,305 to K2,146,465,832, and this is reasonable. However, he could have done better because the needs are just as high. I have seen that he allocated K53,946,320 to infrastructure. However, my plea to the Government is that it prioritises the incomplete infrastructure before it can embark on new projects, so that works on the dilapidated infrastructure, which have already commenced, do not cost a little bit more. So, it is important that it prioritises the infrastructure which is not yet completed.

Madam, I also noticed that the Government has allocated about K1,408,867,889 tocrime prevention. Indeed, it is very important that crime is prevented from occurring because it becomes difficult when some of these crimes become entrenched.

Madam Chairperson, I do recall that we used to discuss these matters quiet a lot, especially issues of violence. Indeed, violence in the past and violence now should not be acceptable and must be condemned. Hon. Minister –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, I think there is an hon. Minister who is becoming unruly.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, can we give the hon. Member on the Floor chance to debate freely.

Mr Kampyongo: The Minister of Youth and Sport is continuously making comments.

The Chairperson: Can we have order on my right!

Hon. Member, you can sit down until there is order in the House.

Mr Kampyongoresumed his seat.

The Chairperson: You may continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson. I used to receive a lot of counsel from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security –

Mr Mabeta: Why did you not listen?

Mr Kampyongo: You were not here young man. Just keep quiet.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Can we stop the interjections hon. Members! We want to make progress.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam, I am sure it is my turn to also do the same because he was always coming forth when these issues of violence arose. In as much as it is not the hon. Minister’s duty to micro manage the Zambia Police Service, it is important for him to give it support in terms of cover, especially from us politicians because it is in a space where it cannot do certain things when it comes to the political pressure it goes through. So, the hon. Minister has a responsibility to create an environment for the police to perform professionally. He must take interest when he starts hearing political leaders making statements such as; “before the police arrest politicians, you need to consult us.” That should not be acceptable. It is important that these people are supported and that the Government creates a conducive environment for them to discharge their functions in because sometimes, they fail to react because of not knowing what their fate will be.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister should support the Inspector-General (IG) of police. Imagine you are a coach of the team, if I can give that example, and then you get key players from the team, then someone constitutes a team for you, and says manager, make sure that the team wins. You know the frustrations that come with that. I do not think any IG will be happy to lose a large number of, say 35, senior officers at a go not by his wanting, but maybe by external pressures. This is what I debated when we were debating the Vote for the Police Service Commission. So, the environment you create will make the police tick. Theirs is to offer service to the people twenty-four hours a day seven days a week, and every week of the month. So, they are always interacting with the public. Therefore, the perception from the public matters most.

Madam Chairperson, it is very important that the Police Service Commission interfaces very well with the police command so that there is no disjoint. These mistakes have been there in the past were decisions have been made and the IG has got no role to play in order to ensure that he protects his team. Some of the officers he could have lost could have been very experienced in their areas of profession.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minster should also start getting worried when he sees people demonstrating or even threatening to show human tool boxes, ...

Hon. Government Members: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: ...as a way of demonstrating against some violent activities. The recent occurrences we saw–

The Chairperson: Hon. Members on my right, I think you are now becoming Speakers, ordering the Member on the Floor by saying order. I think that order should come from this Chair. Let us please, allow him to finish his debate in silence.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, thank you so much.

So, the hon. Minister should take interest when he sees members of the public going out of their way in trying to express themselves where police are supposed to be helpful. The classic case in Mazabuka where a civic leader’s wife was clobbered in a dehumanising way should not be allowed. It had to take other people to parade themselves and threatened to show what they call Mulabala or something. I mean showing the human tool box to the President by coming to parade before the entire commander-in-chief. When you hear such, you must listen. Such should not be taken lightly. What they are saying is that we are so vulnerable here. We are not protected by the police. So, we want the President to be the one to deal with these situations. These are matters that we must not gloss over because it is the civic leader under attack, tomorrow it could be a Minister. Hon. Minister, you remember how we dealt with the issue of one of my Colleagues, an hon. Minister then, who was attacked by cadres and of course, the law took its course and people were jailed –

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until1700 hours.

_______

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Kampyongo:Madam Chairperson,before business was suspended, I did not know that my time had flown.

Madam Chairperson, in winding up debate, may I just encourage the hon. Minister. We have a collective responsibility to ensure that the Zambia Police Service delivers to the expectation of the people. Yes, there is nothing wrong in bringing back people from retirement, but let us make sure that we do not bring back people who are retired and tired because police work is demanding.

Let us also make sure that we do not demoralise officers who are already in the system and who are also expecting to rise in ranks and experience career progression.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support this very important Vote.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving the good people of Muchinga an opportunity to add a voice to the debate on this budgetary allocation.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to comment on a number of things as I support the budget for the Zambia Police Service.

Madam, I come from a constituency which sits in Serenje District where we have had housing units and a police station that have not been completed for a number of years. I was happy when the Chairperson of the Committee on Government Assurances mentioned that this time, the structures would be completed.

We have about 120 police officers, and I must mention that almost all of them are just squatting as we do not have police houses in Serenje District.

Madam, Serenje District also lies along the Great North Road and, as such, is a crime-prone area. There is a lot of crime happening regarding people coming from Tanzania to Lusaka, Ndola and so on and so forth. So, we need many vehicles for our police officers.

Madam, I must mention that through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), my constituency approved K80,000 to repair one of the police vehicles that have been down. We only have two vehicles that were donated by the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM), to police its mining activities.

Madam Chairperson, we need many vehicles. Serenje District Police is the one that even polices Chitambo District. However, there are constituencies like Muchinga where there is a high crime rate. People kill each other, and the police are not able to go and police those areas because they do not have transport. This just tells the hon.Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security that we need to empower our district police administrations with adequate transport for them to manage.

 

Madam, as at 2015, Serenje had a population of about 190,000. That is against a police station that only has two vehicles.

Madam, we also need police posts in Muchinga, which is in Serenje District. In Chibale area, just this year, there were not less than five cases of murder. We need a police post in Kanona, in Muchinga. There have been many murder cases in that areaas well.

So, I am happy that the hon. Minister has been given, at least, a substantial amount of money, though not enough, because it is not only Serenje, but also many other people in other districts who are crying just like I am. I am only speaking for Serenje because that is where I come from and I know the problems that are there. However, going forward, we expect the budgetary allocation to this department to be increased so that most of these challenges become things of the past.

Madam Chairperson, I must also mention that we are very happy as citizens of Zambia to see that we have started having by-elections where we are not losing lives. This positive thing is coming from our Police Service. With good amounts of money allocated to the police, we are going to stop witnessing any violent activities during by-elections.

Madam Chairperson, let me not waste much of the time, but just mention –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: Ooh! My hon. Colleagues are happy. Every time I appreciate or commend the New Dawn Government, my hon. Colleagues are happy. This is good. I think they should even shout ‘Hear, hear!’

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Banda: Madam Chairperson, I say to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security that we are also going to allocate some funds to buy a motor vehicle for the police in our district. However, we also look forward to something that will come from the ministry because Serenje needs, at least, five new vehicles so that the police are able to patrol along the Great North Road. Many accidents happen on that road. This is why we need police patrols between Mkushi and Serenje and Serenje and Mpika at all times. There must be some police officers patrolling these areas.

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, the people of Muchinga support the budget allocation that has been given to the Zambia Police Service.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving the humble villages of Sesheke an opportunity to add a voice to the debate on this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, from the outset, I fully support this budgetary allocation. I can only say thank you to the hon. Minister in charge, Hon. J.J. He has demonstrated that –

Hon. Government Members: It is Finance!

Mr Kangombe: Sorry, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as well as Hon. J.J.

Hon. Government Member: We do not have Hon. J.J!

Mr Kangombe: Jack Mwiimbu. J. Jacob.

Madam, the hon. Minister has demonstrated that he does not need to move with a horde of paramilitary officers in a by-election for him to showcase that he is a very strongman, like we saw in the past. In Lozi, we say, mwananakapa katanganakipetokazamayakwamulahowalimotazamapolisaingesinonokambasitongwani. Meaning, a young boy will always put people before him and hide behind. However, Hon. J. J has demonstrated that even with the abundance of officers at his disposal, he can still have –

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Kangombe!

Please, mention the name of the hon. Minister in full because we have another hon. Member with the same name that you have used.

Mr Mubika: That one is Independent!

Mr Kangombe: Madam Chairperson, not the hon. Independent Member, but the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu.

The Chairperson: That is better.

Mr Kangombe:Madam Chairperson, Sesheke sits at a very peculiar angle on the South West of Zambia, bordering Namibia and Angola. It is a border town with high levels of criminality. Therefore, in supporting this Vote, I implore the hon. Minister in charge of the establishment to look at the plight of the people of Sesheke in ensuring that his officers are fully and adequately equipped so that they can be able to manage the border control –

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Chairperson, it is very well known that in this honourable House, when you speak a language that other hon. Members do not understand, you translate in full. My hon. Colleague did not say what ingesitongwani means. Could he tell the House so that we know what ingesitongwanimeans?

I seek your ruling on that, Madam Speaker.

The Chairperson: I do not understand that language. That is why, when he said that the meaning is this, I thought he had completed it. Hon. Kangombe, we are told you did not complete the interpretation of what you had mentioned in vernacular.

Mr Kangombe: Madam Chairperson, I am a typical Lozi and I am wondering if Hon. Kafwaya is a typical Lozi, like me. In Lozi, I can tell you what when I say munengukangepi–

Interruptions

Mr Kangombe: Can you listen; the Floor is mine.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kangombe: Madam Chairperson, Lozi is a combination of so many tribes. If you know Mbunda or if you know this language – In short, I have fully explained that ingesitongwanimeans a small person or someone who is hiding. In short, kantokakainyani, kaka saba, kaka ipatamwamulohowabaana ba ngana.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear

Mr Kangombe: Meaning, a small person hiding behind other people or putting big men in front. It is an idiom in short.

Madam Chairperson, what I am saying is that we need to ensure that the police are well-equipped.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

To avoid all these interjections, could we please stick to the official language, if possible, so that we are all clear on what we are talking about or what is being said. Although you are allowed to use vernacular, interpret it fully so that all the hon. Members get the meaning. However, I suggest we use English because it is much easier for all of us to understand.

Mr Kangombe: Madam Chairperson, thank you. Going forward, I am not going to use the typical Lozi that my hon. Colleagues who are learning Lozi do not understand.

Madam Chairperson, Sesheke sits on the border of Zambia, Namibia and Angola with high levels of crime because of the different people who are coming in and out. My people of Sesheke have been crying time and again pointing fingers at the police for being unable to fully execute their mandate and duty because of not being fully equipped.

Madam Chairperson, we have a place called Imusho, which I have been talking about, time and again. For you to be able to reach Imusho, you have to go via Namibia. There is no road network that links Imusho to the rest of the country. It is my humble plea that the hon. Minister critically considers the people of Imusho so that they can have an establishment there so that the crimes that are committed on that side of the country can be adequately handled by the men and women in uniform.

Madam Chairperson, I am happy that, when I went through this entire Budget, I did not see a massive allocation for the procurement of teargas as it was in the past. I must commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for putting issues that are supposed to be prioritised at heart, unlike it was in the past as if we were going for war.

Madam Chairperson, the men and women in uniform ought to be motivated. I am happy that with the coming in of the New Dawn Administration, we have seen that police officers are happy from their expressions when you meet them. However, we need to ensure that we scale-up their personal emoluments so that they can feel fully motivated, not like in the past where we saw people who had not been anywhere, flashing money here and there in the name of cadres from Chama.

Madam Chairperson, the men and women in uniform need to be well-secured in terms of accommodation. They need to live in camps because when they live in communities with other members, it pauses a risk to their lives. It is my humble plea that the hon. Minister looks at the plight of these men and women in uniform to ensure that he expands the scope of the construction of housing units for them so that they can be fully secured.

Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I urge Hon. J. Mwiimbu to continue on his trajectory. He should keep on inspiring other people who could not do so much during their time.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to debate the Zambia Police Service.

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service must serve the people of Zambia regardless of who they are and where they come from. One of the fundamental underpinning principles of the Zambia Police is the protection of property and the preservation of life.

 

Madam Chairperson, the police have a fundamental and constitutional requirement to maintain law and order, and sustain internal peace and security. Human life is sacred and therefore, it must be preserved. Property is important and therefore, it must be protected.

Madam Chairperson, this draws me to the important direction that you have given on several occasions to hon. Members of Parliament when we raise issues of insecurity and violence in various parts of the country. You have guided that the first point of call is to go to the Zambia Police and report. Customarily speaking, when people see the Zambia Police, they see peace and security and they are always assured that their property is secured.

Madam Chairperson, in the recent past, I was a witness to one incident that I brought to the attention of the hon. Minister. It was a matter of interest in the public domain where two hon. Members of Parliament from Mwense and their team were brutally attacked. When they went to the police station to report, fortunately or unfortunately, they found three junior female police office officers.The team that attacked them followed them to the police station and begun firing in the air. Instead of the police protecting the people, they ran away from the police station and you wonder where we, as citizens of this land, will be going. If you go to the police to report, they follow you, and the police are threatened and they run away from the police station. Violence committed under the Patriotic Front (PF) and violence being committed now is all violence, and it must be condemned.

Madam Chairperson, as I saidyesterday, our friends carrying out Executive functions have a heavy load on their shoulders. They have to make sure that they secure the interest of the Zambian people and preserve their lives. They need to protect Zambian property. Zambians went to vote on 12^th August, and it is likebanking.They chose to deposit their interest and security in the United Party for National Development (UPND). Therefore, the UPND Government or Executive has a heavy duty and responsibility to ensure that Zambia is at peace, Zambian citizens are protected and their lives are preserved, and Zambian property is protected.

 

Madam Chairperson, I appeal to the police to carry out their mandate professionally. It is unfortunate to see professional police officers being fired merely for carrying out instructions. A police officer understands that there are two principle laws. Rule number one is that you must obey instructions and rule number two is remember rule number one if rule number two does not apply. How do you punish somebody who is carrying out orders? How do you retire people for merely fulfilling the function that they have been mandated to perform by virtue of their work? So, we need to deal with the matter of security.

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: I am addressing the police.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order, Mr Chitotela!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65. The Member on the Floor, Hon. Chitotela, is speculating and bringing a glaring picture of what happened in Mwense, which is unproven. He is busy accusing the policemen that they ran away from some people. There is no proof before this House that such a thing happened in this country. Is he in order to continue speculating and telling us that the policemen were running?

Madam Chairperson, secondly, when an hon. Member is standing on the Floor of this House, he speaks to the Chairperson and faces the Chairperson, not what the hon. Member is doing. He is looking at the police officers or staff from the Zambia Police Service and he is busy looking behind you, Madam Chairperson, speaking to the witnesses. Is he in order to continue speaking to the witnesses who have come to listen to hon. Members who are debating the Vote for the Zambia Police Service? Is he in order to continue behaving the way he is behaving?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Thank you so much. Of course, the rule is that we debate through the Chair. I do not know whether they are officers because it is very difficult to even tell whether they are officers or staff from the Zambia Police Service, but Mr Chitotela, please, debate through the Chair.

 

Then for the other part of the point of order that he has no evidence of what happened in Mwense, Mr Chitotela is the hon. Member for Mwense –

 

Hon. Government Members: Pambashe!

The Chairperson: Pambashe? Hon. Member, I thought Mwense was your constituency and that is why I allowed that. I thought you were there.

Mr Chitotela: I was there!

The Chairperson: So, because that is not your constituency, we needed some form of evidence to show the scenario that happened. If it came out on the news on the radio, it would be okay, but I do not think we heard it. If it were the actual hon. Member for Mwense who said that, I was going to allow it. So, the hon. Member for Pambashe was out of order.

You may continue.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Chairperson, the nominated hon. Member of Parliament must inform himself on the procedures of Parliament. A Backbencher will be at sea and it is up to the hon. Minister responsible to come and respond. That is according to the Standing Orders that we have. I want to remind my friend, the nominated hon. Member of Parliament, the former Member of Parliament for Senanga, that I am not disputing the guidance by the Chairperson that I treasure very much, I am just reminding him that the duty of responding to statements by the Backbench lies with the hon. Minister responsible for that portfolio.

 

Madam Chairperson, I have a lot of respect for the Zambia Police Service because I once worked there and I know the difficulties that staff go through. That is why I am saying that it is not fair, hon. Minister and the Inspector-General of Police, for your officers who are carrying out their functions according to the mandate given to be disciplined by another administration because they carried out their function in the UPND Administration. We understand that there are thirteen laws of the police and we all know them, but the critical principles are two. Rule number one is follow the orders as they are given to you. If rule number one does not apply, rule number two refers you to rule number one. Why should we then deal with officers who are functioning –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, I am at pains listening to my colleague, the Opposition hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe. Firstly, he is continuously repeating himself. Secondly, Standing Order No. 65(b) compels us to ensure that the information we are relaying to the House is factual and verifiable, but in his discourse, on two occasions, he has referred to these two principles of obeying orders and that if rule number two fails you must refer to rule number one. Yes, indeed, it is correct to follow lawful orders.

Madam, is he, therefore, in order to deliberately leave the word “lawful” and continue to simply say “to follow orders” even when orders may be unlawful? That is what used to happen under the Patriotic Front (PF). People would shoot and commit extrajudicial killings in the name of orders. Is he in order to eliminate the word “lawful” in his statement about following orders?

I seek your ruling, Madam.

The Chairperson: Thank you. Hon. Members, as you debate, please, be mindful of certain words so that they are complete. With that guidance, the hon. Member can continue.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Chairperson, I served in the security wings and we know how we do things. In the civilian world, there is a way in which things are carried out. I hope my colleagues from the police and the security wings understand. I do not want to dispute so I will continue.

Madam Chairperson, let me inform my colleagues from the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security that Zambia is one country and we all desire the protection of the police. We all desire to feel part and parcel of this country. The Zambia Police Service needs to make sure that the actions it does today do not jeopardise its future. It should carry out lawful instructions as stated by the hon. Minister responsible for local government.We have seen cases where we stop respecting the law of jurisdiction. A case happens here and a person is transported in the night to Kasempa. That does not apply. Let us address ourselves to the law. Let us make sure that the Zambia Police Service protect human rights and defend the rights of the accused until they are proven guilty.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, we need to make progress. We are already behind schedule in considering and approving the individual votes of expenditure. I can see there are many people indicating to speak. If we continue with this Vote, we will just cover it alone. For the sake of time, I am moving forward. I am going to call upon the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to wind up debate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to respond to a number of issues that have been raised by my hon. Colleagues.

Madam, I thank most sincerely the hon. Members who have spoken and those who have not spoken for the support they have rendered to the Vote pertaining to the Zambia Police Service. In their discourse, they have raised a number of issues pertaining to the management of the Zambia Police Service. They have indicated that the Zambia Police Service lacks accommodation and I agree with them. We have put a ten-year infrastructure plan to build houses and police stations.

Madam Chairperson, I have also taken note that they have raised issues pertaining to transport. They may recall that I assured the House and the nation on the Floor of this House that we are going to buy 156 motor vehicles for the Zambia Police Service. I know that the amount is not reflected in the Budget because we have already actualised it. It is part of the 2022 Budget.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I assure my hon. Colleagues and the members of the public that the Zambia Police Service is going to ensure that there is the rule of law and order and I am happy to note that they are living to that standard.

Madam, you have noted that even the United Party for National Development (UPND) has noted that there is no discrimination. We have a number of our youth and members who are appearing before court for misconduct and lawlessness in this country. Whenever we take action, we do not look at the political party.

Madam Chairperson, let me mention that the youth from the UPND, who misconducted themselves in Petauke last week over the radio programme that was being aired and assaulted the persons who were being interviewed, have been identified and called to the police so that further action is taken. In Mazabuka, there was a social media article which appeared where there was an allegation of violence and the person involved has been arrested. We have arrested a number of members of the UPND. I also assure you that we will accord the same rights to members of the opposition and the ruling party.

Madam, for the first time, members of the public who have been arrested by the police or any security agency are being given bond within forty-eight hours. If there are exceptions, we will only take them to court and give them bail, unlike what used to happen in the past. We have been holding free and fair elections by-elections without violence, apart from one or two incidents; something which is very rare. Let us give credit to the Zambia Police Service for the professional it has been conducting the affairs of the nation.

Mr Jamba: Correct!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam, I also inform this House and the nation that we appointed new police commissioners in order for them to dispense the dictates we have been mentioning on the rule of law. We have taken them for further training. They will be trained for two weeks and then they will impart that knowledge to their subordinates so that the rule of law, without discrimination, is implemented in this country. That credit should be given to the Zambia Police command and the men and women in uniform.There is already a difference. Members of the public have started respecting officers of the Zambia Police Service because there is a very big change which we should all appreciate.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I thank my colleagues for their support.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chewe: Madam Chairperson, I have a point of order which is directed to the Leader of –

The Chairperson: Order!

You are confusing us. We thought you wanted to debate the Budget.

Mr Chewe: Madam Chairperson, it is just a point of order.

The Chairperson: Who is it against since the Minister just finished winding up and now we want to start another activity?

Mr Chewe: It is just a point of order. If it pleases you, I will proceed to raise this point of order.

The Chairperson: On who? Who is the point of order on?

Mr Chewe: You will guide when you permit me.

Laughter

The Chairperson: No. According to our Standing Orders, when you raise a point of order, you are supposed to tell us who it is against and cite the Standing Order.

Mr Chewe: That is exactly what I am trying to do.

The Chairperson: No, maybe, you can come back when we go further in the debate because as of now it is un-procedural.

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police Service – K 1,408,876,889)

Mr Elias M. Musonda (Chimbamilonga): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4155, Sub Programme 1003 – Peace Support Police Services – K 2,272,720. The Budget in 2022 is K900,000 but in 2023 it is being proposed that it stands at K 2,272,720. Now, when you go to page 127, there is an item in table 6 under Number of Officers Trained for Peace Support Operations. In 2022, the target was 150 but the actual target is 564. Now, in 2023, it is being suggested that only 200 be trained at an estimated budget of K 2,272,720. What is the justification of training 564 with a budget of K900,000 while seeking to train 200 with a budget of K2,272,720.My question is: What is the justification that with a budget of K900,000,564 people were trained, but we are seeking to train 200 with a budget of K2.3 million?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I am aware that in 2022, the budget was K900,000. It has gone up. The current budget which we are proposing is K2,272,720. The sum of K2,272,720 has been allocated for peacekeeping support and police services to facilitate formed police unit activities as well as training and possible deployment of 200 officers to the United Nations (UN) and African Union (AU) peacekeeping missions in order to contribute to the restoration of peace in the countries affected by war.

Madam Chairperson, I want to state that the mandate of this peacekeeping mission has been extended to a number of countries, unlike where we are just training without deployment. This coming year, we are going to deploy to a number of countries, including Mozambique and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). We are expected to contribute a certain amount of money to the UN peacekeeping mission if we send our members there.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chewe: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: There is an indication for a point of order by Mr Chewe. Mr Chewe, what is your point of order?

Mr Chewe: Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order. This is arising from Standing Order 232, which states that the Speaker shall control the admission of visitors in the House.

Now, Madam Chairperson, I am concerned at the fact that we are in this House and yet you as the chairperson did not introduce the visitors that we have in this House. Is the House in order to have visitors or intruders that even you as the chairperson does not know, including the hon. Members on your right and left? We have people in the House who we do not know.

I seek your serious guidance on this matter, Madam.

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, I have not seen any visitor. Do we have a visitor in this House?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: May the visitor stand or maybe, the hon. Member can tell us who the visitors are, so that we recognise them if, indeed, they are visitors.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Where are the visitors, hon. Member?

Mr Chewe: Madam Chairperson, behind your Table.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Mr Chewe, thank you so much. I do not know whether it is your first time to see members or officials seated on those two benches. Those are officials from different ministries who are part and parcel of the debates. They are supposed to support the hon. Ministers or, indeed, Her Honour the Vice-President on issues that are presented to the House. So, they are not visitors at all. You will be seeing them more often.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Chairperson, mine is just a request for a small clarification from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security on page 123, Programme 4155, Sub-Programme 1002 – Visible Policing – K1,220,392,193. The amount in 2022, under the current Budget, is K874 million and it is increasing to K1.2 billion. I have to appreciate the work that the hon. Minister is doing in his ministry. The administration he is serving has taken out visible cadreism in markets and bus stations.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Kafwaya: The Government is also proclaiming or pronouncing the rule of law. All of these things have improved. Therefore, what is causing the provision for policing to increase, when in fact the current administration is said to be better when it comes to all these things which cause policing to go up? Why are we having monetary provisions increasing, but pronouncements seem to be saying that those evils are declining?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I assure Hon. Kafwaya that the pronouncements we are making are being covered by the actions of the Zambia Police. He will recall that last week, I made a pronouncement on the Floor of this House pursuant to the point of order that was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chawama where she complained that security in the constituencies in Lusaka and other parts of the countries has been threatened. Pursuant to that point of order, I made a pronouncement that we shall ensure that there is policing throughout the country, in particular, Lusaka, Kabwe and on the Copperbelt. To back up that particular pronouncement, we have mobilised policemen and other security agencies to police various areas of Lusaka and parts of the country to ensure that there is point of order.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Not point of order, sorry, but that there is peace and order in the country.

Madam Chairperson, we have intensified and we will continue, and that requires resources. That is why we have been proposing and requesting for funding. Even this particular funding is inadequate because all other parts of the country require these services. You will recall that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe complained about Karavinas. Due to limited resources, we are not able to send officers on the ground to contain Karavinas, but we are trying everything possible to ensure that there is peace and order and that requires a lot of money. Even this particular amount is not adequate. We, at times, request the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to provide us funding from contingency.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Emmanuel Musonda: Madam Chairperson, I will refer the hon. Minister to page 132, Table 6. There is an item there called Litres of Fuel and Lubricants Procured. The target for 2023 is K2 million, and yet when you go to page 137, that target has changed to K2,200,000. So, which of the two targets has been targeted for?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, for me to respond adequately, could the hon. Members be mentioning the programme code. Otherwise, I will miss the item. So, if they can indicate that, then I will be able to answer prudently.

The Chairperson: Mr Musonda, could you please be more specific with the programme that you are talking about.

Mr Emmanuel Musonda: Madam Chairperson, maybe, you can move on to the next person while I get the –

The Chairperson: Mr Musonda, we shall not come back to you because that was the second time.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4155, sub-programme 1007 – Road Traffic Services – K552,568. Why the increase of K300 million from 2022 Budget when the hon. Minister directed the police to reduce on setting up road blocks becausethey have proved to be inconveniencing to members of the public. In mind, I have the road block at seven miles on the Great North Road. It can take two hours for one to move from seven miles to fifteen miles. Have we gone back to setting up roadblocks?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 4155, sub-programme 1007 – Road Traffic Services – K552,568, we have not gone back to establishing roadblocks. This particular amount relates to the road traffic services to facilitate the procurement of specialised traffic equipment and to conduct road traffic patrols in order to reduce road traffic accidents. We are going to purchase specialised equipment. We are not re-establishing roadblocks. We are against roadblocks.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: I will take the last two; Ms Nyirenda and Mr Kandafula.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Chairperson, these books are so heavy, eh!

Laughter

Ms Nyirenda: I seek clarification on Programme 4119 – Management and Support Services, sub-programme 9006 – Planning, Policy and Coordination –K1,800,450

The Chairperson: That is on page what?

Ms Nyirenda: This is page 123. May I proceed, Madam Chairperson?

The Chairperson: Yes, please.

Ms Nyirenda: I see that last year there was K1,800,450. This year, they have planned with the same amount. What I know is that failure to plan is planning to fail. If this amount did not help us then, why do we not try to increase? We cannot have the same amount we used last year. What has caused the amount to remain static?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 4119 – Management and Support Services, sub-programme 9006 – Planning, Policy and Coordination –K1,800,450, I wish to inform the nation and the House that there is scarcity of resources and when we plan, we have to consider the priorities that we have to undertake. So, when we were considering the budget, we realised that with K1.8 million we were able to plan activities. After planning activities, we came up with the figures to implement the plans that were planned for this coming year.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Kandafula (Serenje): Madam Chairperson, I seek a clarification from the hon. Minister, on page 127, Programme 4155 – Crime Prevention and Policing Services and the last paragraph on that page. We really appreciate the finishing of the construction of sixty-six houses in Serenje. Now, Serenje has two sites and almost the same number of houses which are not yet completed. We just want to know which exact site? Is it that site near the prisons or it is the site near the Great North Road?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, we are aware of the constructions that were started sometime back in Serenje. We have decided to ensure that the uncompleted houses maybe completed under thisparticular budget line we have provided. The houses we are going to complete are those near the prisons.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 16 – (Drug Enforcement Commission– K189,024,001)

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) is a two institutions in one whose mandate is to prevent and control illegal cultivation, production, trafficking and abuse of narcotic drugs, precursor chemicals and money laundering activities. This mandate is drawn from the Narcotics, Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act No. 35 of 2021 and the Prohibition and Prevention of Money Laundering Act No. 14 of 2001 as amended by Act No.44 of 2021 of the laws of Zambia. This mandate contributes to creating a good governance environment as highlighted under pillar four of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP).

Madam Chairperson, in terms of performance, the commission has continued to score above the annual set targets in respect to money laundering and drug related cases investigated and concluded.

Madam Chairperson, as regards drug supply reduction, the commission has continued to conduct countrywide enforcement operations resulting in significant seizures of various drugs. Cannabis has continued to be the main drug trafficked followed by heroin. Other drugs seized include cocaine, khat which is also called Miraa and methamphetamines. For controlled drugs, Diazepam has been the most trafficked prescription drug followed by codeine, among other drugs seized.

Madam Chairperson, under drug demand reduction, the commission has continued to conduct drug prevention awareness activities using both mass and social media platforms. Under the counselling programme, the commission has continued attending to drug dependant persons of which most are school pupils. It is worth noting that the rate of drug and substance abuse, especially among the youths has remained steadily high. Cannabis continues to be the most abused drug followed by Heroin. Other drugs abused include alcohol, Codeine, Cocaine, Tobacco, Diazepem and Amphetamine type stimulants.

 

Madam Chairperson, drug and substance abuse is posing a threat to the socio-economic development of the country. In order to respond to this threat, the Government is committed to constructing a national drug rehabilitation and skills development centre to alleviate the pain and suffering that many families are enduring as a result of the vice.

Madam Chairperson, pertaining to the financial crimes investigations and assert recovery,the commission has continued to investigate money laundering related offences, resulting in the retention and allocation of resources by the Treasury to needy areas such as health and education. Fraud has continued to be a major predicate of offence recorded followed by theft/embezzlement and other offences including, inter-alia taxevasion, corruption, drug trafficking, and Ponzi scheme, which is a money circulation scheme.

Madam Chairperson, notwithstanding the successes recorded, the effectiveness of the commission’s current core programmes continues to be threatened by adequate human resource. The current staff establishment of the commission stands at 669, with a staff strength of 638 employees against the approved establishment of 1,821. Other challenges are, inadequate capacity building, infrastructure, and the lack of presence in strategic missions abroad to effectively co-ordinate the prevention and combating of illicit drugs, money laundering and other Trans-National Organised Crimes. Another challenge that requires attention is inadequate transport.

Madam Chairperson, the Budget performance for the period 1^st January to 30^th September, 2022, indicates that out of the total annual Budget of K118, 271,672, the commission has so far, received K97,465,653, leaving a balance of K20,806.019.

 

Madam Chairperson, in order to ensure service excellence in the fiscal year 2023, the commission will direct its efforts towards strengthening intelligence and investigation mechanisms in drug and psychotropic substances control, and anti-money laundering programmes. Further, efforts will be directed to improving operational procedures and processes under the management and support service programmes. In this regard, in the 2023 Budget, the commission has been allocated a total K189,024,001 to carter for operations and personal emoluments. This amount is shared among three programmes as follows;

1. Drug and Substance Control – K95,244,218;
2. Anti-Money Laundering – K12,407,136; and
3. Management and Support Services Programmes – K81,372,647.

Madam Chairperson, the Drug and Psychotropic Substance Control Programme will involve both drug supply and demand reduction. Under this programme, the commission intends to scale-up drug and substance abuse prevention activities, rehabilitation of drug dependent person, detection of narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances, and investigation of cases. The anti-money laundering programme will focus on enhancing prevention and investigation mechanisms, increased asset recovery, and concluded cases. The management and support services programme will support the core functions of the commission through human resource management, provision of logistical support, prudent utilisation of financial and material resources, planning, policy development as well as, legislative review to facilitate service excellence.

Madam Chairperson, the effective implementation of the service programmes will contribute to a good governance environment to facilitate economic transformation and job creation. This will be made possible through the prohibition and prevention of drug, money laundering and other financial related crimes which have the capacity to undermine national development in tenets of good governance.

Madam Chairperson, the commission will continue upholding national values bordering on integrity, patriotism, professionalism, transparency, accountability, and constitutionalism to ensure service excellence, prudent utilisation and zero-tolerance to corruption, among others.

Madam Chairperson, I urge this august House to support the 2023 Budget for Vote 16.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Chairperson, as I support this Vote, with the amount of K189,024,001, I want to, indeed, acknowledge that the mandate of this Vote is to ensure that the cultivation, transportation and of course, the usage of drug abuse, is taken care of.

Madam Chairperson, I commend the hon. Minister on the allocation of K95,244,218 towards the Drug and Substance Control because this has become a very serious issue in our country. As we are speaking, many correctional facilities are littered or are full of people who are actually imprisoned because of the abuse of various drugs especially marijuana or ibange.

Madam Chairperson, I urge the ministry as it looks at this allocation, to also ensure that it looks at the drug abuse and cultivation, which is rampant in our country. The reason for this is that we have concentrated so much on the urban areas which are a consuming market forgetting where these drugs are being cultivated. So, as the hon. Minister looks into the allocation of these funds, he should bear in mind that we need equipment to give to the officers. Indeed, I also appreciate that Human Resource Development is required in this sector to help in tackling the issue of the cultivation of these drugs especially marijuana. Even though others are saying that we can go a step further to legalise some of these drugs, I think the marijuana that we cultivate is actually not helping matters in our country. We are talking of so many youths who are forming various groups terrorising and stealing from the innocent Zambians. These youths are not doing this out of nothing. They engage in these vices after they have consumed these drugs. 

Madam Chairperson, I also want to mention that the allocation of K12,407,136 to the Anti-Money Laundering, I believe is not enough, looking at the sophistication of how this money laundering is done. We have so many people who are actually coming to wash or clean their illegal or illicit money in the country. We therefore, need to be abreast with the moving time for us to counter such vices. I will cite one example. Why is it that we have so many filling stations littered in our country today? You cannot move 5 km without finding a filling station by the corner. To me, this is one of the ways that money is being laundered. They bring the money, launder or clean it through various projects so that it becomes legal money.

Madam Chairperson, I want to state here that as we are looking at human resource, we need to employ more people to counter this vice. If you go into the compounds including my Constituency, there are so many children who are abusing these drugs at the expense of development. We want to ensure that even the officers who go out in the field to conduct patrols and clean ups are well protected because when someone smokes dagga or seven spirits, it becomes dangerous for anyone to face him. So, we need to equip the officers so that even when they are doing their work, we know that they are safe.

 

Madam Chairperson, away from that, this ministry requires vehicles so that the officers can patrol and go to the remotest areas. We are all aware that most of these drugs are actually cultivated in the middle of the maize and soya beans fields, and it is very difficult to detect that. If anything, the ministry can go a step further and procure drones so that the officers can patrol some areas and pick out where these drugs are growing because it is amazing to find drugs on the market all the time. On top of that, we want the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) officersand immigration officers to be at the check points manned by the Zambia Police Service to detect some of these drugs which come through buses and other vessels.

Madam Chairperson, in short, I commend the hon. Minister, but I want him to look at the figure that has been allocated to the Anti-Money Laundering Investigation Unit. This component is very sophisticated and we are dealing with sophisticated international money launderers. So, we also need to be sophisticated for us to arrest this vice.

Madam Chairperson, with that contribution, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Chairlady –

Laughter

Mr E. Banda:Ah! Sorry.

Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity.

Madam Chairperson, I just have a few things to say, and my debate will centre on equipping the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) officers.

Madam Chairperson, drugs are cultivated in rural areas and transported to urban areas. What I have seen is that most of the offices for the DEC in rural areas have not been fully taken care of, and I will give an example of Serenje, where I come from. I must mention that Serenje services Mkushi and Chitambo districts. So, there are only DEC officers in Serenje and those are the ones who go to Mkushi, Chitambo and Serenje, and these are big districts.

 

Madam Chairperson, Serenje borders the Democratic Republic Congo (DRC). That is a very porous border point, and we might not know what happens at the other end. As such, I urge the hon. Minister to look into the issue of equipping the officers with transport. Our officers only have one vehicle and they are very few.

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I support this budget allocation, and it is a very good one. We hope to see many changes in this area.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Chairperson, allow me to begin by thanking you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on Vote 16, which the people of Katombola are very much interested in.

Madam Chairperson, I will begin by indicating that I support the funds allocated in favour of Vote 16 and wish it could have been more, and I will highlight the reasons.

Madam Chairperson, our perspective, as the people of Katombola Constituency, is that we see the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) as being constituted into two bodies, namely the Anti-Money Laundering Investigation Unit and the Drug and Psychotropic Substance Control. In this case, I will concentrate on the Anti-Money Laundering Investigation Unit, which is mandated specifically to pursue economic crimes such as money laundering. I am concerned about the levels and the sophistication at which money laundering has reached world over, as a transnational organised crime.

 

Madam Chairperson, my perspective, as Member of Parliament of Katombola, is that the two institutions must be separated. There is a need to realign institutions fighting economic crimes because, lately, these crimes have become more sophisticated with advanced technology and the introduction of e-Commerce and banking transactions, and they are done by the mere use of an electronic gadget including a telephone. I think that the Anti-Money Laundering Investigation Unit’s role needs to be supported and the unit should be made a very robust institution, which must synchronise with other Government agencies such as the Zambia Police Service, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), and the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC), which is housed at the Bank of Zambia (BoZ).

 

Madam Chairperson, the DEC was created as a result of His Excellency the First President’s desire to create a special investigation team on the economy and trade in 1987. Since then, white-collar crime has become more sophisticated, and Zambia cannot afford to remain behind.

Madam Chairperson, money laundering is a transnational organised crime, which is very sophisticated. In the absence of advanced technology and proper financial support to this institution, Zambia risks becoming a vessel upon which sophisticated offenders would use to merely wash the funds that are stolen from other jurisdictions.

Madam Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, I urge the ministry that there is a need to decentralise the DEC. I note that crimes occur in a fraction of a second, particularly matters that involve white-collar crimes. We see money-laundering manifesting itself in other predicate offences such as corruption, what recently happened, where some young people were kidnapped and the offenders demanded for ransoms, piracy and other complicated crimes such as cybercrime. The people of Katombola feel that there is a need for urgent institutional reforms to reflect the dictates of the international community as we combat issues to deal with money laundering.

Madam Chairperson, the need to separate the DEC from the Anti-Money Laundering Investigation Unit is so urgent. It reflects international perspectives that are provided for under theEasternandSouthern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group(ESAAMLG),which sat in this country less than two months ago to decide and debate on how we can improve the fight against white-collar crime particularly money laundering.

Madam Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, I want to indicate the problem in prosecuting money-laundering cases, which has been highly problematic owing to the technical and esoteric nature of the field we are discussing.

Madam Chairperson, prosecuting white-collar crimes can be very complex in view of the high-level turn out of the staff. Most of the staff at the DEC trained by the Government at a high cost resign, more often than not, because they are attracted to the banks. There is, therefore, a need to look into the conditions and welfare of the offices so that this department or institution can be highly strengthened.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to address the issue of politically exposed persons, the people entrusted to handle public resources like ourselves and other colleagues who handle money. Some of the people, who earned very little, acquired very serious wealth to an extent where they even acquired helicopters. Some civil servants allegedly own fifty-one houses with monies that were very unclean, unclear and cannot be accounted for.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: I, therefore, request that these monies are properly investigated and that is why we need to capacitate the DEC to ensure that there are no leakage points on public funds. The reflection, in the Auditor-General’s Report, of the levels of ‘stealing’, particularly in the previous Government and other Governments, was so unprecedented. Looking at –

The Chairperson: Mr Andeleki, the word ‘stealing’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Chairperson, I withdraw it and replace it with misappropriation. The misappropriation of public resources reflected in the Auditor-General’s Report is amazing. This country today is struggling to attain middle-income status because of the level of ‘stealing’ and pilfering of public funds. There is a need –

The Chairperson: You have repeated the word, ‘stealing’.

Mr Andeleki:I withdraw that word and replace it with the pilfering of public funds.

Madam, this country today is still struggling to attain a middle-income status because of the level of pilfering of public funds. There is need to strengthen the law against stealing for public funds, including drugs in public facilities. There is need to make it a capital offence that any person who taps their hand in public resources must be treated the same way as a murderer. Therefore, if we are going to uphold the dictates of good governance and if this country is going to do well, the institution of the DEC is very fundamental.

Madam Chairperson, let me also speak on the law on extradition because some of these offenders are still running away as we are speaking. We have colleagues who worked in the previous Government such as people who were in charge of political affairs in this country. They have been on the run ever since the Government changed. All those who are mentioned in the Auditor-Generals Report, following the change of Government, are on the run –

Mr Kalobo: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kalobo: Madam Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order on the Member on the Floor arising from Standing Order No. 65. The hon. Member is bemoaning the public servants who have built, according to him, fifty-one houses and other properties arising from what he saw in the Auditor-General’s Report as misappropriation. Is he in order to mislead, you, the House and the nation at large? How can misappropriation cause someone to build personal property? To my understanding, misappropriation is where you apply funds wrongly. For example, if funds were meant to buy medicines and then you go and procure desks, that is not embezzlement unless the Auditor General’s Report has highlighted embezzlement.

Madam, is he in order to mislead this House, the nation at large and himself because with misappropriation, money does not go intoone’s pockets. You just misapply. You use it for other things, unless it was embezzlement. Is he in order? I need your serious ruling.

The Chairperson: Standing Order?

Mr Kalobo: Standing Order 65(2). You must be factual.

The Chairperson: Mr Andeleki, can you try to be more factual and can you stick to the Budget of the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) because I have heard you have brought in other issues which are not part and parcel of DEC and that is why we are receiving reactions from the other side. We have moved away from the debate. So, could you please be focused on the Vote on the Floor. Do not bring in other issues which are not there and not relevant to the debate.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Chairperson, the issue I was addressing is the role of the DEC to pursue people who steal or misappropriate, misapply and embezzle public funds, as we saw in the past.

Madam, I was talking about the Extradition Act. There is a need for Zambia to synchronise the Extradition Act, which is also under the DEC, as it pursues offenders of white-collar crimes. Let me also indicate that the Forfeiture of Proceeds of Crime Act and the Stolen Assets Recovery Act must also be reinforced in order to criminalise offenders such as those who steal public funds.

The Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Chairperson, thank you for allowing the people of Solwezi East to add a voice to the debate on the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) allocation. In supporting Vote 16, may I single out the aspect of drug and psychotropic substance control.

Madam, with the allocation that we have seen increasing from K76,996,468 for 2022 to K95,244,218, we as the people of Solwezi East want to applaud the Minister and also echo the aspect of technology as my colleague said. We really need to see more training and advancement in terms of technology for the DEC. For instance, if we advance in the procurement of drones, we should be able to monitor some of the activities that go on the high wall fences that we see around Lusaka and many other areas. We really cannot know the actual activities that go on in such fenced buildings. It could be drug trafficking and substance abuse going on there or issues to do with money laundering. We really need to see more training of our officers in that regard and probably even have more sniff dogs, as we have seen in other countries. When you walk into the airport, you find these sniff dogs all over. Probably we need to also see advancement in that area.

Madam Chairperson, we also need to see an increase in terms of training. For instance, we have talked about legalising the growing of cannabis. From the medical point of view, we know that from cannabis or cannabis sativa, which is a plant, we are able to extract hydro cannabinoids which are the substances that we normally use in the medical fraternity, for instance, to treat rheumatism and severe pain normally experienced during pre-operation or post-operation. We use such kinds of substances extracted from cannabis to even treat epilepsy, asthma, skin burns and all that. So, we want to see more allocation in the training and if possible, legalisation of this kinds of plant because we are able to extract such kind of substances which are very important and critical to be used in the medical fraternity. 

Madam, when we have this kind of control, will be able to make sure that what is allocated will be used in a proper manner as opposed to being abused. Indeed, this Head is very important and you need to see more training since we have heard that there is more sophisticated and organised crime. We really need to see to it that these kinds of crimes are highly controlled by applying high-tech systems so that we are able to detect them.

For instance, I see where the ministry is talking about de-establishing 75 per cent of drug trafficking meaning these cartels exist and there are cases that are being investigated regarding these kinds of cartels and drug trafficking. We are imploring that with the increased allocation, we will see more advancement in technology and also in the extraction of hydro cannabinoids for use in the medical fraternity.

Madam, with that submission, I support this Vote 16 on the DEC.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I thank my hon. Colleagues, vis-à-vis, Hon. Chibuye, Hon. Banda, Hon. Andeleki and lastly but not the least, Dr Katakwe, for the support they have rendered to the Vote. I also wish to thank all hon. Members who have not spoken but are in support of the Vote for the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC).

Madam, I just want to make a few comments pertaining to the issues that have been raised in the debate pertaining to the Vote. I am aware of the provisions of Article 235 pertaining to investigative commissions. I am aware that the provisions of the particular Article I have referred to are instructive. The Government will look at this particular issue and see how we can implement the provisions of the law as provided under the Constitution. This relates to the splitting of the DEC so that one wing specialises in drug enforcement and the other one in money laundering as per the Constitution.

Madam, I also want to state that this House enacted two Acts pertaining to the production and management of cannabis in this country. We have already legalised the cultivation of cannabis. We are waiting for the Ministry of Health under which this particular Bill is anchored to operationalise the law. We hope that will be done soon so that members of the public and certain institutions, in particular, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) that was identified to cultivate cannabis, can start the process.

Madam Chairperson, I just want to concur with the submissions that have made that drug abuse can be a security threat to the country. You may have noticed that we have seen the mushrooming of gangs in various townships calling themselves all sorts of names. These gangs are actually drug pushers. Once they push these drugs, they start harassing members of the public. We have taken note and that is why we have taken measures, working with all security institutions so that we curb these criminal activities that are obtaining in the townships.

Madam, I just want to thank all my hon. Colleagues for the support.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Chairperson, I had indicated on a point of order a while ago.

The Chairperson: You may proceed.

Dr Chilufya: Thank you so much, Madam Chairperson. It is a point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. In relation to Standing Order No. 65, we have to be factual. The hon. Minister just indicated that we have authorised cultivation of marijuana. What the law says is that there is a provision for cultivation of marijuana for medicinal purposes, but not necessarily for anything else.

Madam, I just want the hon. Minister to clarify if there is a change of position where the Government has now authorised the cultivation of marijuana which could be used for social purposes, or if the law remains as it is in the Constitution, where the hon. Minister of Health is empowered to authorise the cultivation of marijuana for medicinal purposes.

Madam Chairperson, I seek your ruling.

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, I do not know whether you can respond to that question.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I just want to respond to my hon. Colleague. I stated that there is a law that was passed on the Floor of this House and that is the law that is in existence. I did not generalise that there will be cultivation of cannabis by all and sundry. I was referring to the law as it is that was passed by this House. There is no change. All I said is that we are waiting for an enforcement order, which has not been done.

The Chairperson: Thank you for that clarification. I hope we are moving at the same page.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4199, Sub-programme 9002 – Human Resources Management and Administration – K62,082,157. In 2021, this House approved K19,060,387 and then it was increased to K22,299,395 in 2022. That translated into a 16.9 per cent increase. The hon. Minister is now asking this House to approve K62,082,157, which translates into 178.4 per cent. What has changed in human resources management and administration to warrant a jump of a whooping 178.4 per cent increase?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, this particular provision and the increase therein relates to the provision that is meant to cater for personal emoluments. You may not be aware that we recently employed a number of DEC officers. Further, we are going to ensure that we complete the office block in Kabwe. We are also providing for the construction of the National Drug Rehabilitation Centre.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mukosa(Chinsali): Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Page 183 on Economic Classification, No. 31, Assets. I wanted to ask a question on No. 21 but the hon. Minister has responded regarding personal emoluments. He said that the ministry employed more Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) officers. What assets are we intending to buy in 2023 that will cost around K21 million? I would also like to bring the hon. Minister to page 183 –

Mr Mwiimbu: Which Programme?

Mr Mukosa: No. 31.

Mr Mwiimbu: Which actual programme?

The Chairperson: He is on the Budget Summary, 4.0. That is the table for everything.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, that is why I am asking him to indicate the programme head. I will be able to respond adequately if it is indicated to me.

The Chairperson: Are you able to, Mr Mukosa?

Mr Mukosa: Yes, I am checking. Maybe, as I am still checking, let me –

Hon. Member: Just withdraw your question.

Mr Mukosa: No, I cannot withdraw because it is here. It is the hon. Minister who needs to be helped.

Mr Mwiimbu: On what page are you, hon. Member?

Mr Mukosa: On page 183.

The Chairperson: It is not under a programme?

Mr Mukosa: It is under budget summary.

The Chairperson: Are we makingprogress, Mr Mukosa?

Mr Mukosa: Yes, for me. I have indicated, Madam Chairperson. It is under budget summary but I did not finish asking. Have you found it, hon. Minister?

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, I have.

Mr Mukosa: Okay. May I add another one so that I do not have to rise again,andhe can address them at the same time?

Madam Chairperson, I also seek clarification onProgramme 4199 –Management and Support Services – K81,372,647.In 2021, we had an approved budget of K21,797,489. In 2022, we had an approved budget of K26,355,577. Now, in 2023, the budget has jumped almost by four folds to K81,372,647. What has necessitated this increase in the budget?

Madam Chairperson, on page 185, under table 3: budget allocation by programme under sub-programme. I seek clarification on Programme 9005 – Procurement Management – K15,287,900. There is a jump from K297,900 in 2022to K15,287,900 for 2023.What has necessitated this increase?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 9005 – Procurement Management – K15,287,900, the increase which thehon. Memberis referring to relates to the provision to cater for full implementation of the Procurement Plan, inspections and monitoring to ensure adherence to procurement procedures. The increase in allocation is meant forthepurchase of motor vehicles and to cater for the scaled-up activities in 2023.

 

Madam Chairperson, on Programme 4199, the provision is meant to cater for personal emoluments for officers under this programme. The increase is due to the scaling up of planned activities aimed at improving financial management, operational procedures and processes, maintenance of infrastructure, enhancement of logistical support, human capital and review of legal and policy frameworks.

Madam Chairperson, the chart he referred to takes into account some of the issues I raised earlier.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: The last one will be Mr Mwambazi.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4174 – Anti-Money Laundering – K12,407,136. In 2022, the amount was K14,919,627. Why has it reduced to K12,407,136 in 2023.

May I also have clarification on Sub-Programme 1003 – Provincial Anti-Money Laundering – K307,170. I do not know whether this provision is for all the ten provinces or not. Maybe, the hon. Minister can clarify on that.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, this particular Budget line has been reduced because we have decentralised to provinces and districts. So, the money has been apportioned to the provinces and districts.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18 – (Judiciary – K738,945,717) and VOTE 31 – (Ministry of Justice – K851,754,855).

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to address this august House.

Madam Chairperson, I will begin with Vote 18–Judiciary, as follows:

Mandate and Strategy

Madam Chairperson, the Judiciary is one of three arms of Government which was established by the Constitution as provided under Part VIII. It derives its mandate from the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 and under Article 119, which provides that the authority of the Judiciary vests in the courts and shall be exercised by the courts in accordance with the Constitution and other laws. Thus, the mandate is to hear civil and criminal matters and matters relating to, and in respect of the Constitution. This is in accordance with Articles 118 and 119 of the Constitution of Zambia as aforementioned.

PAST PERFORMANCE FOR THE PERIOD 2022 TO 2022

Court Operations – Case Management Amidst the COVID-19 Pandemic

Madam Chairperson, the Judiciary continued adopting measures that were aimed at guaranteeing the continued access to justice and expeditious disposal of cases while minimising the risk of possible spread of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). Additionally, the Judiciary promulgated new rules in order to ensure efficiency of the courts.

Madam Chairperson, of particular significance in 2022 is that the Judiciary handled various general election petitions. to This end, the Judiciary had eighty-four parliamentary election petitions filed, of which twenty were withdrawn or discontinued, fifty-two dismissed and twelve elections nullified, while under the Local Government Election Tribunal there were 272 petitions filed, twenty-nine of which were withdrawn, 236 dismissed and six resulted in nullification.

Madam Chairperson, a total of forty-four petitions were appealed to the Constitutional Court. As at 3^rd August, 2022, a total of thirty-four appeals had been disposed of.

The Economic and Financial Crimes Court

Madam Chairperson, during the period under review, the Chief Justice on 7^th January, 2022, in exercise of the powers contained in Section 3 of the High Court Act Cap. 27, established the Economic and Financial Crimes Court, a division of the High Court. Of significance, the Economic and Financial Crimes Court was created to hear and determine matters relating to economic and financial crimes and corruption. At the subordinate court, through administrative arrangement, eight magistrates have been identified and assigned to hear and determine criminal matters of an economic and financial crimes nature. As at 31^st July, 2022, four criminal appeals from the subordinate court and eleven civil cases had been filed in the High Court.

Madam Chairperson, at the subordinate court level, we received a total of twenty-six cases in Lusaka, of which, two convictions were recorded. There have been no acquittals so far. Zero of those cases were withdrawn and there are twenty-four pending. As for Ndola, three were received, there were two convictions, one was withdrawn, no acquittals and there are none pending.

Judicial Reforms

Madam Chairperson, Article 120 (4) of the Constitution directs that our courts, except the Supreme Court and the Constitutional Court, shall be devolved to the provinces and progressively to districts. The purpose of this provision is to ensure that court services are gradually decentralised in fulfilment of the broad concept of access to justice. To this end, during the period under review, Resident Judges were deployed to Solwezi High Court, Mongu High Court, Chipata High Court, Kasama High Court and Mansa High Court. It is envisioned that this intervention will enhance the physical access to courts by the people of Zambia in provinces and districts.

Madam Chairperson, moving on in relation to performance management, I wish to highlight in particular the revenue performance during the period under review. The Judiciary collected non-tax revenue as follows; in 2022, January to June, K18,837,194.27 was collected as fees of the court. As for fines of the courts, K7,483,708.95 was collected in the same period while library fees collected amounted to K137,386.48.

Key Issues to be Addressed in the 2023 Budget

Madam Chairperson, in the 2023 to 2025 Medium Term Expenditure Framework, the Judiciary will continue to place emphasis on addressing the following key issues; quick disposal of cases, access to justice, capital projects and maintenance, capacity building, and revenue monitoring and inspection.

Madam Chairperson, in relation to the Judiciary, it is our hope and prayer that the 2023 Budget shall be supported so as the Judiciary can fulfil its full mandate.

Madam Chairperson, let me move to the Ministry of Justice.

Mandate of the Ministry

Madam Chairperson, according to Government Gazette Notice No. 1123 of 2021 on the statutory functions, portfolios and composition of the Government, the Ministry of Justice is mandated with the responsibility of facilitating the administration of justice, promotion of good governance and the observance of the rule of law.

Madam Chairperson, in addition, the Ministry of Justice is also responsible for the following statutory bodies and institutions:

1. the Compensation Fund Committee;
2. the Judicial Complaints Authority;
3. the Legal Aid Board;
4. the National Prosecution authority;
5. the Zambia Institute of Advance Legal Education; and
6. the Zambia Law Development Commission.

Madam Chairperson, the ministry also provides a grant to the Zambia Centre for Interparty Dialogue.

PART TWO

Overview of Programme Implementation for the Year 2022

Madam Chairperson, during the period under review, the ministry implemented three budget programmes, namely Legal Services, Good Governance and Human Rights aswell as the Management of Support Services.

Madam Chairperson, amongst the key highlights under the Legal Services Programmeis Legislative Drafting and Law Reforms. The ministry drafted twenty-three bills and sixty-nine statutory instruments (SI’s) in order to contribute to the creation of a conducive governance environment and responsive policy environment.

Madam Chairperson –

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister. Since we have two statements combined, we are going to give you five more minutes on top of your usual minutes. You can go ahead.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: I am obliged Madam Chairperson, I was actually running out of breath.

Arbitration, Litigation and Prosecution

Madam Chairperson, the ministry received 817 civil court cases, of which 70 per cent were attended to. In addition, under the compensation fund, K300 million was paid to beneficiaries.

Madam Chairperson, to support the Government agenda on decentralisation and take legal services closer to the people, the Ministry of Justice commenced the process of decentralisation to all provinces in accordance with Article 177(6) of the Constitution of Zambia. As we speak, the ministry has already secured office accommodation and will finalise the process of recruiting and opening at least five provincial centres before the end of this year. This will improve efficiency and effectiveness in the representation of Government in civil proceeding as well as enhance clearance of contracts and agreements to which Government is party.

Further, the National Prosecution Authority continued to consolidate its district presence by enhancing the capacities of its sixty-four districts through accusation of office space, office furniture, tools and equipment as well as human capital development. In addition, the authority spent K2.8 million for witness management activities.

International Law and Agreements

Madam Chairperson, during the year under review, the ministry received 5,995 contracts. Out of this number, 5,356 were processed. The ministry also drafted and submitted the forth cycle report of the Universal Periodical Review. I addition, Cabinet approved the national mechanism for reporting and follow up on human rights. This is a great milestone as the mechanism will enhance implementation monitoring and reporting of state party recommendations.

 

Good Governance and Human Rights

The ministry successfully implemented three sub programmes towards attainment of key targets set under this programme.

Democratic Governance

Madam Chairperson, the ministry prepared a state party report on the implementation of the African Charter on Democracy Elections and Governance. The ministry also continued to support the operations of the Zambia Centre for Inter-Party Dialogue.

PART THREE

Policy Framework and Budget Priorities

Madam Chairperson, I now turn your attention to the policy direction and priority programme for the Ministry of Justice for the year 2023. The Ministry of Justice will pursue the strategic objects and targets set out in the 8^th National Development Plan (ENDP) in line with its mandate.

Madam Chairperson, the 2023 Budget Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Justice is K851.8 million compared to K624.6 million for the year 2022 representing 36 per cent increase. This amount will go towards the execution of the ministry’s mandate and strategic objectives through the implementation of our perennial three programmes, namely Legal Service, Governance and Human Rights as well as Management and Support Services.

Madam Chairperson, the Legal Services Programme has five sub-programmes, namely Legislative Drafting and Law Revision, Arbitration, Litigation and Prosecution, Estates and Receivership, International Law and Agreements and Legal Education.The Legislative Drafting and Law Revisions sub-programme has been allocated K33.3 million. The funds under this sub-programme will be used to facilitate legal and constitutional reforms and drafting of legislation to ensure that it is responsive and meets the aspirations of the people of Zambia. The funds under this programme will be used to cater for the operational costs of the Zambia Law Development Commission (ZLDC).

Madam Chairperson, the Arbitration, Litigation and Prosecution Sub-programme has been allocated a total of K693.5 million. The resources under this sub-programme will be utilised to support the civil litigation and debt collection functions of the Ministry of Justice. To enhance effective discharge of these functions, the ministry will open five additional provincial offices in 2023 for the Attorney–General’s Chambers.

Madam Chairperson, the Government has proposed an allocation of K500 million to the compensation fund in 2023 compared to K300 million in 2022. The huge debt burden under the compensation fund currently stands at K4.3 billion. This is a historic debt and of great concern to the Government. Even as we propose, a sum of K500 million, it is but a drop in the ocean.

Good Governance and Human Rights Programme

Madam Chairperson, the New Dawn Government, through this programme will continue to promote good governance principles and provide legal aid services in criminal and civil matters to persons whose means are inadequate to engage practitioners to represent them. The good governance and human rights programme has been allocated K67 million to facilitate the implementation ofthree Sub-programmes,namely accountability and transparency,democratic governance, and administration of justice.

Madam Chairperson,the democratic governance sub-programme has been allocated K2.8 million. While the Administration of Justice sub-programme has been allocated K62.3 million.In addition, a programme sum of K53 million has been proposed to support the operations of the Legal Aid Board.

Madam Chairperson,as I wind up, I urge all the hon. Members of this august House to support the two Votes that I have made these policy statements in respect of, and I humbly submit.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: As we debate, let us take into consideration that there are two Votes being considered.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Chairperson, first of all, from inception, I want to state that I do support the budget for the Votes that we are debating, whose two policy statements have just been given by hon. Minister of Justice.

Madam Chairperson, the first issue that I want to talk about is that of office accommodation for our hard-working officers in the Judiciary. There is a need to ensure that we provide proper, adequate and suitable accommodation where courts can be conducting their business. For example, in Chinsali, we have the magistrate court building that has been under construction for over five years now. There is a need for the hon. Minister to discuss with his counterpart from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning so that the Ministry of Justice is availed with finances to complete that very important structure.

Madam Chairperson,the other issue that I want to talk about is that of the law. At the moment, when you look at the Intestate Succession Act, you will see that it authorises the local court to grant the order of appointment for those who are seeking to become administrators for estates of the deceased. It authorises to grant the order of appointment if the value of the estate is up to the value of K50. Now, in the event that the value is above that, then it becomes difficult for them to grant the order of appointment.

Madam Chairperson, the people from my constituency requested me to discuss this issue at Parliament so that the hon. Minister could, perhaps, increase the value by repealing the law. If the value is increased, then some of the challenges that people face can be addressed. If, for example, a person is in Mafinga, where there is just a local court, and he/she wants to appoint an administrator, it becomes difficult to use the local court. They are referred to Chinsali. If you want to appoint an administrator for an estate that is above K50, you need to go to the High Court. So, it is becoming a challenge for people who live in areas where there are only local courts.

Madam, when I had a discussion with people from the Judiciary, they said that at the time this law was passed, perhaps, K50 was a lot of money, but at the moment, the K50 note does not have that value. It is very important that the hon. Minister looks into this matter as he does his business.

Madam Chairperson, I can see that we do not have much time and would like my other hon. Colleagues to also make a few comments on this very important Vote that we are discussing.

 

I thank you, Madam.

The Chairperson: Thank you for your consideration.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to say one or two things very briefly.

Madam, I thank the hon. Minister for his pronouncements. I support the votes he has alluded to. One of the concerns the hon. Minister indicated was the quick disposal of cases. I do not know what we can do, but we have noted that one of the reasons cases take long, and some of them end up being disbanded, is the fact that when a magistrate handles one case and, before the completion of that case is transferred to another district, whoever comes in to take over that case has to start looking at it all over again.

Madam Chairperson, I want to declare that I am one of the victims whose case took almost three magistrates to handle in court. As a result of that back and forth, I abandoned the case. I can imagine a situation where you have a lot of such cases piling up in courts.

Madam Chairperson, I strongly recommend that his ministry comes up with a way of ensuring that there is continuity from one magistrate to the other when a case has been opened. We see these magistrates recording as people give their evidence. So, I wonder why it has to take another magistrate to start swearing in and taking in new submissions.That is one of the reasons which make these cases take long.

Madam Chairperson, I strongly urge the hon. Minister and his colleagues to seriously consider how best they can deal with some of these situations.

Madam, as I indicated, I can hand the Floor over to another hon. Member who is interested to debate.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe):Madam Chairperson, my contribution on this Vote is straightforward. The hon. Minister talked about decentralisation. It should not end at provincial level. Let it trickle down to the district level. I say so because in a constituency like Chembe, we transport suspects for more than 100 km to take them to the courts. It would be more –

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1913 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 10^thNovember, 2022

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