DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 18thJuly, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON THE COMPLAINT LODGED BY MR GARY G. NKOMBO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MAZABUKA CENTRAL  PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST THE ZAMBIA DAILY MAIL LIMITED BASED ON THREE (3) ARTICLES ENTITLED “DRESSED CHICKEN GOES TO PARLEY”, “STATE PUTS CHICKEN DEBATE TO REST” AND “CHICKENS IMPORTATION” WHICH APPEARED IN ITS NEWSPAPER

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, on Tuesday, 20th March, 2012, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly received a letter of complaint from the hon. Member for Parliament for Mazabuka Central Parliamentary Constituency against the Editor of the Zambia Daily Mail Limited regarding two articles published in the Daily Mail, Vol. 16, No. 65 of Friday, 16th March, 2012. The articles were entitled ‘Dressed Chicken Goes to Parliament’ and ‘State Puts Chicken Debate to Rest’ and one article published in the Sunday Mail, Vol. 19, No. 12 of Sunday, 18th March, 2012, entitled ‘Chickens Importation’. The hon Member’s letter of complaint reads as follows: 

“Dear Madam,

“RE: COMPLAINT AGAINST THE EDITOR OF THE ZAMBIA DAILY AND SUNDAY MAIL

“Kindly refer to the above.

“Section 3 and 4 of the statutes under Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia avails me privileges, immunities and protection during my discharge of my duty and function of providing oversight role on the Executive wing of Government.

“As you are aware, during the sitting of Thursday 15th March, 2012, I raised a point of order on the hon. Minister of Agriculture, Livestock, Fisheries and Co-operatives. This point of order was a response to his answer from the question raised by the honourable Member for Chikankata Constituency when he stated that there were no imported chickens on the Zambian market in general, and Walmart and Shoprite in particular.

“During my point of order, I demonstrated to the House that the honourable Minister’s statement was inconsistent with the truth by presenting on the Table of the House an imported dressed chicken from South Africa and a corresponding receipt of purchase from Game Stores Lusaka.

“Madam, I am greatly disturbed and chagrinned by the reporting of the Zambia Daily Mail who have ridiculed me for performing the oversight role on Government. In their attached articles, extracts of their paper, they accuse me of concealing a chicken in my jacket and went on to state that my conduct was both dishonourable and indecent. They go on to say I ate the said chicken for dinner.

“Madam, as though that was not enough ridicule, in their Sunday Mail of 18th March, 2012, under editorial heading on ‘Chicken Importation’, they proceed to satirically insinuate that I am a political vulture who ‘will not waste time to swoop and feast on such a story so as to cause despondency …’

“In view of the foregoing, I seek your office’s protection and that of Members who may find themselves in a predicament and suffer ridicule and disparaging comments from the media and public at large.

“Yours faithfully,

“Gary G. Nkombo, MP

“MAZABUKA CENTRAL CONSTITUENCY”

The House may wish to be acquainted with or reminded of the contents of the three articles complained against by Hon. Garry G. Nkombo, MP.

1.    Excerpt from the Article Entitled: ‘Dressed Chicken Goes to Parley’

“There are no chickens being imported into the country after all; but certainly a chicken was ‘imported’ into Parliament yesterday. The importer? Gary Nkombo, the Mazabuka United Party for National Development (UPND) Member of Parliament. Reason? He wanted to prove that imported chickens are already on the market and he comically did this by stuffing the chicken in his jacket and later laid it on the Table of the House, after raising a point of order.”

2.    Excerpt from the Article Entitled, ‘State Puts Chicken Debate to Rest

“But while we understand the importance of this issue, we find the behaviour of UPND Member of Parliament Gary Nkombo appalling and totally unparliamentary.

“We fail to understand how an honourable MP, well-respected and representing thousands of people in his constituency, can ‘smuggle’ a chicken into Parliament even when he wanted to drive a point home.

“An MP, or even an ordinary citizen for that matter, is not expected to tuck a chicken in his jacket.  No! There must be some decency in debate, behaviour and general practice of politics in Zambia. 

“By the way, where is this dressed chicken? Did Honourable Gary Nkombo have it for supper last night? We shudder to imagine!”

3.    Excerpt from the Article Entitled ‘Chickens Importation’

“The storm raised by reports that Government had issued permits to some supermarket chains to import chickens from South Africa was not necessary because the Government has made it clear that no business entity is importing the birds … 

“In a ministerial statement prompted by a point of order raised by Mazabuka Central Member of Parliament Gary Nkombo, Mr Chenda said “the Government can only issue such a permit if there is a deficit, in consultation with stakeholders such as farmers, traders, food processors and consumers …” 

“However, we are urging stakeholders to handle such matters carefully in future because they are highly sensitive. Unemployment is a highly emotive issue in Zambia and any story of people losing jobs en masse immediately takes on an ugly political face as was the case.

“Political vultures will not waste time to swoop and feast on such stories to cause despondency.  In unstable countries, inaccurate information could cause riots in which life and property could be at serious threat.”

Hon. Members, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and the principles of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to the Zambia Daily Mail for the purpose of bringing to its attention the complaint raised against it by Hon. Gary Nkombo. The letter also requested the Zambia Daily Mail to show cause why it could not be cited for breach of parliamentary privileges and contempt of the House.

In its letter of response, the Zambia Daily Mail pleaded the defence of justification and fair comment. The response letter reads as follows:  

“Dear Madam,

“We wish to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 26th March, 2012, on the above matter,

“The Zambia Daily Mail Limited first published a story on 14th March, 2012 on ‘the controversial Government decision’ to grant Shoprite Checkers and Game Stores a permit to import chickens from South Africa or South America. The story was entitled ‘Beware chicken lovers!... Thousands of Poultry Jobs at Risk’.

“On 16th March, 2012, the newspaper published a follow-up story entitled ‘Dressed Chicken goes to Parley'. Our reporter, Mr Chimwemwe Mwale, was in the Press Gallery at Parliament Buildings on Thursday, 15th March, 2012. He informed us that he saw honourable Gary Nkombo, MP, carrying a package in his jacket as he entered Parliament for the day’s session. At that point, Mr Mwale did not know that the package contained a dressed chicken until the honourable MP, Mr Gary Nkombo, produced it on his point of order. Madam, since the action by the Honourable Member of Parliament for Mazabuka to produce a real dressed chicken in Parliament was unexpected, it obviously took many people by surprise.

“Our story on Honourable Nkombo taking a dressed chicken into Parliament was true and justified. It was also true to say that he wanted to prove that imported chickens were already on the market. He, in fact, did that by putting the chicken on the Table of the House. Our reporter, Mr Chimwemwe Mwale, is ready to testify on what he saw.

“Our editorial comment which we published on 16th March, 2012, was, in our view, a fair comment of the aforesaid event and was published bona fide and without malice. Our publications fell under Section 32 of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia. The said section reads as follows:

‘In any civil or criminal proceedings instituted for publishing any extract from or abstract of any report, paper, votes and proceedings, referred to in section twenty-five, if the court be satisfied that such extract or abstract was published bona fide and without malice, it shall enter Judgment or verdict, as the case may be, for the defendant or accused.’

“As regards our editorial comment entitled ‘Chickens Importation” which appeared in the Sunday Mail of 18th March, 2012, we do not agree with honourable Nkombo’s assumption that the reference to “political vultures” was a satirical insinuation on him. That comment was a general one and had nothing to do with him. Our only reference to the Honourable Member of Parliament in that editorial comment was in Paragraph 3 in which we alluded to his work of providing checks to the Executive by his point of order. We stated as follows:

‘In a ministerial statement prompted by a point of order raised by Mazabuka Central Member of Parliament, Gary Nkombo, Mr Chenda said the Government can only issue such a permit if there is a deficit, in consultation with stakeholders such as farmers, traders, food processors and consumers.’

“There was no other reference to Mr Nkombo, MP in that particular comment.  We are surprised and, indeed, we wonder why the honourable Member of Parliament should imagine that he is among the “political vultures” we stated in our comment. There is no evidence to link that reference to Mr Nkombo, MP, and we submit that even an ordinary reader would not link it to him.

“Our publications were also privileged in that there was no malice and that the matter fell under Part II of the Schedule referred to in Section 9 (2) of the Defamation Act, Cap. 68 of the Laws of Zambia.

“As a public newspaper company, we are not prohibited by law to publish stories and events that happen in Parliament. The story we published on importation of chickens into the country was of public concern due to the effects that would have followed. The publications were, therefore, for the benefit of the public.

“In conclusion, we wish to emphasise that this newspaper did not ridicule Mr Nkombo, MP, as he alleged. We did not write a false article, but one that was true and could be justified. Our opinion is that the honourable Member of Parliament for Mazabuka, should have been grateful that our newspaper brought out, in public, the issue regarding the issuance of the permit by the Government to import chickens.  It is upon our earlier report that the Member of Parliament was able to raise the point of order and keep the Government action in check. Our view is that his role and our role as a newspaper complement each other and there is no reason for him to cry foul when we report without fear or favour. Our articles were fair, fair comments and written with truth and justification.

“Yours faithfully
For/ZAMBIA DAILY MAIL LIMITED

“Isaac Chipampe
MANAGING DIRECTOR”

Hon. Members, I, accordingly, referred the matter to the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services for determination. The House may wish to know that the complaint raised against the Zambia Daily Mail raises the following issues of breach of parliamentary privileges and contempt of the House:

(i)an outsider showing intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly by  making disparaging remarks against a Member based on the Member’s conduct or words uttered by the Member during the proceedings in the House; and

(ii)freedom of speech and debate in the House vis-à-vis Members’ freedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestation during the performance of their parliamentary duties.

The following are the authorities on the afore-mentioned breaches:

Section 19 (e) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Chapter 12 of the Laws of Zambia, which provides that:

 “Any person shall be guilty of an offence who commits any other act of intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly or of a Committee of the Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.” 

In addition, there is Section 25 (g) of the same Act.

Further, well-known Parliamentary authors, S. L. Shadkher and M. N. Kaul, in the book titled Practice and Procedure of Parliament.

Section 3 of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Chapter 12 of the Laws of Zambia also provides that:

“There shall be freedom of speech in the Assembly. Such freedom of speech and debate shall not be liable to be questioned in any court or place outside the Assembly.”

Reference is also made to a book titled House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition, on page 89, where it is stated that:

“By far, the most important right accorded to Members of the House is the exercise of freedom of speech in parliamentary proceedings. It has been described as a fundamental right without which they would be hampered in the performance of their duties.”

Further the, the authors, in the same book, on page 108, state that:

“Members are entitled to go about their parliamentary business undisturbed. The assaulting, menacing or insulting of any Member on the floor of the House, while he is coming or going to or from the House, or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament, is a violation of the rights of Parliament. Any form of intimidation… of a person for or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in parliament could amount to contempt.” 

Hon. Members of the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services met to determine the matter.

In line with Parliamentary Practice and Procedure, Mr G. Nkombo, MP, and the Zambia Daily Mail Limited appeared before the Committee to orally submit and clarify their positions on the matter.

Following a thorough study of the parties’ written and oral submissions, the interrogations that ensued and based on the authorities outlined above, the Committee came up with the following findings:

(i)that, by referring to the hon. Members’ conduct of carrying a chicken into the House and laying it on the Table of the House as being dishonourable, appalling, indecent and totally unparliamentary, the Zambia Daily Mail Limited was, in its reporting, disrespectful to the Hon. Member, in particular, and to the House as a whole;

(ii)that, by referring to the hon. Member as a political vulture who would not waste time to swoop and feast on a story to cause despondency, the Zambia Daily Mail Limited did cast aspersions on the hon. Member of Parliament; and

(iii)that the articles amounted to an infringement of the hon. Member’s freedom of speech and debate in the House, and an attempt to obstruct the hon. Member in the performance of his parliamentary duties.

Hon. Members, in view of these three findings, the Committee rejected the defence of justification and fair comment advanced by the Zambia Daily Mail Limited. Subsequently, the Committee resolved that the Zambia Daily Mail Limited had breached parliamentary privileges and were, thus, in contempt of the House.

In determining the punishment to impose on the Zambia Daily Mail Limited, the Committee considered, among others, suspending the Zambia Daily Mail Limited from covering the proceedings of the House and its Committees, and prosecution, in accordance with the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act.  However, on the basis that the Zambia Daily Mail was a first offender, the Committee opted to exercise leniency and, therefore, resolved that the Zambia Daily Mail Limited, through its Managing Director, be reprimanded before the House.

Section 28(3) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap.12 of the Laws of Zambia requires a resolution of the House on a matter of this nature.

Question put.

Hon. Members called for a division.
    
Mr Speaker: Clearly, a division has been called for. Ring the bells.

The Bells rang

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Kambwili, do not be funny.

Mr Speaker: Order! 

We are still in the House.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, with your permission, I would like to raise a procedural issue before we commence the other proceedings of voting.

Mr Speaker, I have been in this House for more than ten years, now, and what has transpired, today, is very unusual and is not procedural. We are all aware that your Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services has delegated authority. Your judgment and your report has never been impugned and questioned on the Floor of this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Today, for the first time in the history of this House, from 1963 to date, your authority and judgment have been questioned. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from you whether, effective from today, your decisions and authority will be subject to a vote on the Floor of this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out, in no uncertain terms, whether that is the new procedure we are going to be following. 

Sir, I am also aware that many hon. Members of Parliament have been punished by the Committee on Privileges, Absences and support Services and the procedure that is being invoked, today, has never been invoked. If that is the tradition that we are going to follow as a House, I have no problem. We will be questioning the integrity of this House on the Floor and debate ourselves as to our conduct.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am aware that your Committee is composed of the hon. Mr Deputy Speaker, as Chairperson, the Chief Whip and the Whips of the other political parties. All parties are represented. I seek your serious consideration of the unfortunate situation that has happened on the Floor of this House and your direction pertaining to the same.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The thing to note, first and foremost, is that, procedurally, in terms of Section 28 (3) of the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act, the direction that I have taken comports with what is happening. Perhaps, what is unusual is that, on a question of this sort, usually, there would be unanimity in the House. However, the fact that, usually, there would be unanimity does not fault the procedure, itself. However, for the avoidance of doubt, and in view of the observation that has been made by the hon. Member for Monze Central, I will repeat the question.

Mr Speaker repeated the Question.

Question put and agreed to.{mospagebreak}

REPRIMAND OF MR ISAAC CHIPAMPE, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF ZAMBIA DAILY MAIL LIMITED

Mr Speaker: Will the Sergeant-At-Arms, please, bring to the Bar the Managing Director of the Zambia Daily Mail Limited, Mr Isaac Chipampe.

Mr Chipampe was escorted to the Bar by the Sergeant-At-Arms.

Mr Speaker: Mr Chipampe, this House is extremely displeased with the articles that appeared in your newspaper publications of Friday, 16th March and Sunday, 18th March, 2012, in as far as they referred to the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, Mr Gary Nkombo. This is so because in the articles in question, you intentionally showed disrespect to the hon. Member by ridiculing him through the disparaging remarks which you made against him. 

Mr Chipampe, I have to inform you that the articles were not only disrespectful to the hon. Member, but also amounted to an affront to the honour and dignity of the House. You may wish to note that in any democratic system of government, the media plays a critical role in promoting and enhancing parliamentary democracy. The media is a medium through which the proceedings of the House are conveyed to the public. Thus, it is important that the diverse views brought before the House are reported accurately, respectfully and objectively.

Mr Chipampe, let me remind you of the provisions of Section 7 of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act which states:

“No stranger, journalists included, shall be entitled as a right, to enter or remain within the precincts of the National Assembly Chamber and the Speaker or any officer authorised in that behalf by the Speaker may at any time order any stranger to withdraw therefrom.”

From this legal provision, you must note that journalists are in the Press Gallery at my pleasure. Therefore, for you to continue enjoying this pleasure, it is important that you appreciate the full import of the laws relating to contempt of Parliament and also, more importantly, avoid misguided reporting and wrong analysis of the proceedings before the House. You know that you enjoy press freedom as guaranteed under Article 20 of the Constitution of Zambia. However, you should note that that the freedom which you enjoy is not absolute. It is subject to limitations which include respect of the rights and liberties of other citizens. This means that the exercise of press freedom places a responsibility on the media to take necessary measures to ensure that it does not, in its reporting, exceed the limitations. Thus, your freedom, as the press, does not extend to bringing the hon. Members of Parliaments’ debates and the proceedings of the House, in general, into ridicule and disrespect.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, before I order Mr Chipampe to render the apology to the House, let me take this opportunity to advise the media and the general public that the absolute freedom of speech and debate enjoyed by this House is paramount. This is so because without this freedom, it is almost impossible for the House to perform its functions effectively and efficiently for the benefit of the electorate and the nation at large. It is for this reason that this House does not hesitate to take appropriate action against any member of the public who infringes on members’ freedom of speech in the House. In this regard, I urge the media to be familiar with the practices and procedures of the House as well as the privileges and immunities that are enjoyed by Members of the House. This is so because where it is proved that the media exceeded the limits in reporting national issues, it cannot use a shield of press freedom and will be held accountable and liable to sanctions.

I now order you, Mr Chipampe, to unreservedly apologise to the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central and the House at large for the unprofessional, disrespectful and contemptuous remarks issued against Hon. G. G. Nkombo, Member of Parliament, in the articles published by your newspaper.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order, order! 

APOLOGY BY MR ISAAC CHIPAMPE, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF ZAMBIA DAIL MAIL LIMITED

Mr Isaac Chipampe: Mr Speaker, I, Isaac Chipampe, in my capacity as Managing Director of the Zambia Daily Mail Limited, do unreservedly apologise to the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, Mr Gary G. Nkombo, MP, and to this august House for breaching the hon. Member’s parliamentary privileges as a result of the articles that were published in my newspaper.

Sir, I have carefully listened to the guidance you have given to the Zambia Daily Mail and to the media, generally, and wish to assure you, and this House that, in future, the newspaper shall strive to report on parliamentary proceedings in a more responsible and objective manner …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipampe: … so as not to infringe on the privileges enjoyed by this House.

Sir, I would also like to commend the men and women in this House who believe in press freedom.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I now order you, Mr Chipampe, to leave the House.

Interruptions

Mr Chipampe left the House.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

HARRASMENT OF JOURNALISTS

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, following a point of order raised by Hon. Victoria Kalima, Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa Constituency, regarding the alleged violation of the rights of journalists by the purported detention and confiscation of their cameras, I wish to inform the House regarding what was established after exhaustive investigations.

Mr Speaker, I must hasten to add that apart from police officers, those interviewed included Mr Bruce Mwale, a journalist from Muvi Television and Mr Alfred Tembo, Director of Administration at Muvi Television.

Mr Speaker, the genesis of this matter is the theft of 412 pieces of ivory weighing 3,795.4 kg valued at K2,795,400,000, which were stolen from the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) strong room in Chilanga.

Mr Speaker, the investigations by the police led to the arrest of three suspects who were subsequently detained in order to assist with investigations. On 21st June, 2012, two journalists, Mr Bruce Mwale from Muvi Television and another one from the Times of Zambia, while in the company of a lawyer for one of the suspects in connection with the theft of the ivory, proceeded to Linda Police Post were the two journalists introduced themselves to the police who were handling the investigations as part of the legal team to one of the suspects. Unfortunately, while at Linda Police Post, the journalist from Muvi Television hid behind a car and secretly started taking still photographs of the suspects who were inside the enquiries office.

Mr Speaker, it should be noted that the journalist also took photographs of other suspects who were not connected to the ZAWA ivory case. The vehicle behind which the journalist hid when taking the photographs was parked in front of the entrance door to the enquiries office. Upon being noticed by an alert police officer, the photographer was requested to stop, and he complied.

Mr Speaker, the journalists later proceeded to Chilanga Police Station where they introduced themselves formally as journalists, and not members of the legal team for one of the suspects. The Officer-in-Charge at Chilanga Police Station explained to the journalists why it was wrong to take photographs of the suspects. He explained that the police feared that their investigations would be jeopardised if the photographs were published. He said that since the ivory theft case was still under investigation, some accomplices and potential witnesses who the police were investigating, especially those who did not know that some of their colleagues involved in the ivory case had been apprehended, would know and get away from justice. This could make it difficult for the police to apprehend other suspects, and also to secure co-operation from members of the public. That notwithstanding, I wish to state that the law has a long arm.

Mr Speaker, in certain cases, it is vital that the identity of suspects is not be revealed while investigations are being carried out. This was one of the cases where it was vital not to reveal the identity of the suspects while the investigations were going on.

Mr Speaker, following the explanation from the Officer-in-Charge at Chilanga Police Station, the journalist apologised and agreed to delete the photographs. At that point, the journalist from the Times of Zambia categorically disassociated herself from the taking of the photographs.

Mr Speaker, none of the journalists was harassed by the police as they were not detained or interrogated beyond the levels which I have talked about. They were merely talked to by the Police Officer-in-Charge at Chilanga Police Station in his office. After the police officers deleted the photographs, the camera was handed back to the journalist.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to emphasise that the police and the media are partners in the fight against crime. They need each other. However, in their endeavour to do their work,  both the media and the police need to observe the rules of engagement so as not to jeopardise the fight against crime because they are in this fight together.

Mr Speaker, I call upon the police not to harass journalists as they carry out their work of gathering information. At the same, I ask the media to observe the police rules and procedures. When in doubt, there is nothing wrong with our colleagues in the media to consult a senior police officer.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members of Parliament are now free to ask questions and points of clarification on the ministerial statement raised by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I saw pictures of the journalists on television while they were at Chilanga Police Station. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, who is my very good friend, whether the journalists who were involved in this case were put in police custody or not, because pictures of them while at the police station were shown on television. Most Zambians can dispute the ministerial statement that the hon. Minister has delivered.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I am not one person who relies on routine police statements delivered to my office. I personally undertook a tour of duty from the Chilanga ZAWA Offices, through Chilanga Police Station to Linda and interviewed the people concerned. I had to rely on their testimonies because I did not have the privilege of seeing what the hon. Member of Parliament saw on television.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the journalists actually asked for permission from the accused person’s lawyer to visit the police station and that the main reason they were harassed was that the accused person had been assaulted.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I have emphasised that permission ought to have been granted by the police and not the lawyer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, if I heard my learned colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, right, he clearly indicated that, in most cases, the police do not allow taking pictures or filming of suspects. If that is the position of the police, I would like to find out why so many suspects have been filmed in collusion with the police in this country. I have in mind various political leaders who have been suspects and have been filmed and the films aired on television. Some of them are in this House. Is there any exception to the law that is obtaining? What particular law is being used pertaining to the issue of the police inhibiting the filming of suspects?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, in most cases, the police do not allow taking of pictures. Therefore, I do not know in how many cases that has been allowed. All I can say is that, in this particular case, the police pointed out to us that they did not want to jeopardise their investigations. 

Sir, I can only say that when the police allow journalists to take pictures, it is because they know that investigations will not be jeopardised. I am not a police officer, but the police told me that they do allow pictures to be taken when they know that their investigations will not be jeopardised.

Mr Speaker, I can safely conclude that for those who have had their pictures taken and displayed, it is because the police were satisfied that their work would not be compromised.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, for the sake of clearing any doubt, I would like the hon. Minister to be categorical about how long the cameras were confiscated.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I have a written report from the police and, like I said earlier, I talked to the various officers involved in this matter and they said that the cameras were confiscated for a few hours only and were released the same day.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether any cameras were damaged during the fracas that ensued.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, as I said in my statement, an interview was held with the journalist concerned, Mr Bruce Mwale, and the Director of Administration at Muvi Television. To the best of our knowledge, no camera was destroyed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the suspects were assaulted or brutalised.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the issue here is about journalists and not suspects.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the issue of journalists may border on abuse of press freedom and human rights. I would like to know whether or not the hon. Minister has actually counterchecked the authenticity of the script that he read to us, considering that the ministry that we are overseeing is the one that prepared that report.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is not my style to come here and regurgitate what is written for me. As I said, I took time to go into the field and talked to the officers concerned. The statement I read on the Floor of this House was actually drafted by my hon. Deputy Minister and me.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by that of the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MYSTERIOUS DISEASE IN KABOMPO

514. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the hon. Minister of Health:

(a)whether the Government was aware of a mysterious disease of extreme swelling of the stomach that had broken out in Kabompo District and claimed a number of lives, particularly in Lunyiwe, Dikolonga and Kayombo areas;

(b)if so, what the disease was;

(c)what the causes of the disease were; and 

(d)what measures the Government had taken to contain the disease and save the people’s lives.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu):  Mr Speaker, there is no outbreak of a mysterious disease of extreme swelling of the stomach in Kabompo District.

Sir, the disease that has been detected in the area is schistosomiasis or Bilharzia. It has affected only six people in Muhalayi, in Kayombo Catchment area. There are no deaths recorded so far as a result of Bilharzia.

Mr Speaker, schistosomiasis is caused by schistosomiaheamatobium whose host is a snail usually found in rivers and streams where the local people swim and draw their drinking water from. 

Sir, the Government sent a team of medical personnel to investigate and manage the cases on 14th July, 2012, and treated all the cases. The district has enough medicine called praziquantel to treat all the new cases, should they arise. In addition, sensitisation and education on how the disease can be prevented in the communities has continued.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Namulambe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. I am sorry to disturb the debate of the hon. Member for Kabompo West. Sometime last year, the hon. Minister of Information, Broadcasting and Labour, issued a statement in this House that the Government was going to consult widely on the issue regarding the minimum wage.

Sir, currently, there is tension in the country, whereby …

Hon. Government Members: Aah! Question!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Let the hon. Member articulate his point of order.

Can you proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Namulambe: … some people are not happy because they fear to lose their jobs as a result of working for people who cannot afford to pay the revised minimum wage. Further, the Zambia Federation of Employers has also raised concerns about this. The commercial farmers also do not know whether they are affected by this minimum wage issue. 

Sir, I have with me a press statement by the Zambia Federation of Employers, which appeared in yesterday’s Zambia Daily Mail dated Tuesday, 17th July, 2012. On page 14, about thirteen issues have been raised in relation to this issue, but I will just quote two paragraphs from the main issues that have been raised by the Executive Director for the Zambia Federation of Employers. 

Sir, paragraph 11 states:

“The Minister of Labour and Social Security, Hon. Fackson Shamenda, MP., in his media statements, has indicated that the Government, employers and workers conclusively discussed and agreed on the prescribed rates. This is absolutely incorrect, as he, himself, in particular, and the ministry, in general, labour movement and, indeed, ourselves, know very well that the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC) Meeting that was held on 21st December, 2011, to the contrary, agreed on formation of a Tripartite Technical Committee to discuss and consult, extensively, with a view to coming up with recommendations for the TCLC’s consideration at a further date to be fixed by the ministry, with a view to …”

Mr Speaker: Order!

 Hon. Member of Parliament for Mpongwe, I presume your intention is to lay down before the House that article. If my presumption is correct, then, it may be totally unnecessary for you to read what could be a very long article on the subject. 

Could you get to your point of order.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. It is very clear from this statement that there were no adequate consultations made by the ministry as the TCLC was not consulted, as agreed at the meeting that is mentioned in the said statement. People are complaining in the country. Is the hon. Minister in order to remain quiet, instead of coming back to this House to inform us on who was consulted because, currently, there is tension in the nation?

Mr Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament, we have been informed that, on Friday, 20th July, 2012, the House might adjourn sine die and the people are going to be asking us what the status quo is on this matter. Is the Government in order to remain silent and insinuate that it had consulted when the stakeholders have categorically denied having been consulted? 

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Mr Namulambe laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

In light of the fact that your point of order has raised a substantive issue, I would urge you to file a question of an urgent nature.

Can the hon. Member, please continue.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I am quite surprised that the hon. Minister is saying that there is no such disease. Nevertheless, since is there no health post in this area to take care of such instances, I would like to find out whether  and when the Government is going to construct a health post in this area.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I would like to see these as two separate issues − whether and when the health post will be constructed and the capacity to deal with the problem at hand. In the case of a health post, we have already announced the intention to establish health posts across the country, starting in the course of this year. As for the capacity to deal with the issue, we already have in place the capacity to deal with bilharzia, which has been with us for a long time. We know what causes it, as stated by the hon. Deputy Minister. We know how to treat it and the facilities are available now. There is no need to lay down any new plans, but rather to implement the existing ones.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, it is said that prevention is better than cure. I worked for the National Council for Scientific Research, many years ago, and I am aware that there is a preventive method. Therefore, is the ministry considering contacting the National Council for Scientific Research to kill those mollusks which cause schistosomiasis?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may be pleased and proud to know that serious scientific work on this subject was, in fact, the product of the Tropical Diseases Research Centre, including the early studies on the use of the current treatment. For that reason, I believe that the scientific component of our work in this field has been fully covered, continues to be fully covered and will contribute to any future strategies, including the one that the hon. Member has mentioned, which is already in hand.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether bilharzia actually causes the swelling of the stomach, as the question is saying.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the word stomach is, sometimes, used rather loosely. What we are talking about, in this case, if we were to be specific, is the abdomen. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: Sir, I do not think we need to go into these minutiae of biological understanding. Let me say that, within the abdomen, there is an organ called a spleen which gets swollen in the course of infection by this organism. It is that swelling that causes the enlargement of the abdomen, which is commonly described as the stomach.

I thank you, Sir.

ZAMBIAN DRUG TRAFFICKERS

515. Mr Kalaba (Bahati) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)how many Zambians had been arrested for drug trafficking from January to May, 2012; and

(b)what measures the Government was taking to combat drug trafficking in the country.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that from 1st January to 31st May, 2012, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) arrested a total of 1,402 persons for the offences of drug trafficking and cannabis cultivation. Of the arrested, 1,259 were male while 143 were female. Thirty-four people of different nationalities were arrested. 

Mr Speaker, the total drug seizures during the period under review were as follows

    Type of Drug            Quantity (kg)

Cannabis herb     3,295 
Cannabis plant      12,958 
Cannabis seed     15.6 
Cocaine         0.0132 
Diazepam     0.077  
Ephedrine     0.236 
Flunitrazepam    0.027 
Heroin     0.415 
Miraa    365 

Mr Speaker, the commission has intensified its sensitisation programmes under the National Education Campaign Division (NECD) that also carries out sensitisation on the dangers of drugs and money laundering in learning institutions, work places and the community. The commission also works with leaders such as chiefs in carrying out sensitisation programmes in rural areas. 

Mr Speaker, operations of the commission have been enhanced by addressing transport challenges in provinces. Each province has so far received two motor vehicles, one Toyota corolla and a land cruiser. The commission is currently carrying out an institutional audit with the aim of increasing its establishment so that it can have a presence in all the districts and more officers are deployed in places where there is a need. Capacity is also being enhanced in the workforce through in-service training in different fields.

I thank you, Sir

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order that I consider to be very important and of an urgent nature. Our President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, is currently out of the country. The President is not a private individual, but an institution. A few days ago, we learnt, through the media, that he was to travel to Addis Ababa to attend an African Union (AU) Summit. Today, we know that at that summit, Zambia is being represented by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon. Given Lubinda. We later learnt that the President had travelled to the United Kingdom (UK) on a private visit. 

Mr Speaker, from certain sections of the social media networks, we have been told that our President may actually be elsewhere and not, in fact, in the UK. As if that is not enough, we have been informed that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who normally acts as President in his absence, has also travelled with the President. The hon. Minister of Defence, who we expect to act in this instance, has also travelled …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, order! 

Mr Hamudulu: … with the President. The point of order I am raising is very important to those who have the interest of Zambia at heart. 

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, we now have the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock acting as President, resulting in His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott, reporting to him.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Currently, there are a number of burning issues in our country which include fuel shortages, minimum wage disputes, cotton price disputes and the list goes on. These issues need the direction of the President, but the President’s whereabouts are not known. Those who have been left to be in charge of this nation’s affairs are quiet. Is the Patriotic Front (PF) Government in order to remain silent about the whereabouts of our dear President, Mr Michael Sata? 

I need your serious ruling on this issue, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I have repeatedly stated, in the past, that points of order have a primary function. We always need to bear in mind the general rule that points of order relate to the manner of debating. We have several avenues available of eliciting the kind of information that the hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga intends to exact from the Speaker. We have processed and promoted those avenues and, with utmost dispatch, we have the capacity to do that. We can very quickly extract information from the relevant arm of the Government because it does not present any difficulty to us. Therefore, I will generally urge the hon. Members that, in order that we remain focused on the agenda, we should use those avenues. There is a risk of not being able to conduct the business of the day if the Speaker is liberal about these points of order. There could be no end to these so compelling and urgent national issues and I have a time limit in which to conclude business. So, in short, I would urge the hon. Member for Siavonga to file in a question of an urgent nature and the Secretariat will accordingly process it with the urgency that it deserves. 

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that progressive ruling. 

Sir, given the astronomical figure of 1,402 people who have been arrested as a result of drug-related cases, is the hon. Minister taking stringent measures to ensure that our borders and airports become water tight to arrest the vice?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, it is true that some drugs do come through our borders. We are, indeed, taking stringent measures. As I indicated in my response, we do provide in-service training to equip our officers with skills of detecting the entry of these drugs into Zambia. For instance, we have sniffer dogs …

Dr Simbyakula’s microphone was off.

Hon. Opposition Member: Microphone!

Dr Simbyakula turned on his microphone.

Dr Simbyakula: I am sorry, I will start again. 

Mr Speaker, it is true that drugs do enter Zambia through our various border points. However, we are equipping our officers with skills to detect the drugs through various methods. Unfortunately, I cannot reveal some of the operational details. However, we are trying to get on top of things. This is a very lucrative trade and drug traffickers are also devising ways and means of evading detection. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, has the Ministry of Home Affairs considered taking a programme on the dangers of drug trafficking and usage to schools so that in future we do not see people who have acquired wealth through drug dealing end up in this House or dying from drug use.

Laughter 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I know that Hon. Siliya is former Minister of Education. So, perhaps, she could share notes on what she did during her tour of duty. 

Laughter

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, nonetheless, as I indicated in my earlier response, we do have the National Education Campaign Division which goes round learning institutions sensitising pupils on the dangers of drugs.

I would also like to appeal to hon. Members in this House to sensitise their children and communities about the dangers of drugs. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker has the ministry been able to find out the reasons most drug couriers are women? What is the problem?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the statistics I gave indicate that out of the 1,402 people arrested, 1,259 were male and 143 female. 

Sir, as a bonus answer, when drug traffickers see that law enforcement agencies are detecting male traffickers, they try and use alternative means. They go for women and, sadly, because now they have discovered that we are also targeting women, they are now using children as couriers. The least suspected persons are being targeted. This is how they operate, but we are trying to get on top of things. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, we have recently noted that a number of South Americans have now started transiting through Zambia as they conduct their trade. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that Zambia is not infiltrated with the South American cartels dealing in drugs?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, we do collaborate with other drug enforcement agencies throughout the world. I can assure this House that we collaborate with the Americans and other agencies in that region. Furthermore, it is up to us to enhance our detection methods. 

You may recall a recent case, which is in court, where some people were trying to conceal cocaine in DVD players. We are trying our best to enhance our detection skills.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, out of the 1,402 people arrested for drug trafficking, only 143 are female. The perception in the country, however, is that there are more female traffickers than male. What is the ratio of women to men with regard to imported drugs? This could be the field in which there are more females.  

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is probably referring to the number of women who have been caught in foreign jurisdictions. Drug traffickers use women to courier drugs because they are least suspected. The perception is due to the fact that women make news. Otherwise, from the statistics, only 143 have been arrested locally. Outside the country, however, more women than men are arrested. This is why it makes news. 

I thank you, Sir. 

HAJAMBA HEALTH POST IN PEMBA

516. Mrs Mazoka (Pemba) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)when staff houses would be constructed at Hajamba Health Post in Pemba Parliamentary Constituency;  and

(b)when the health post was expected to be opened to the public.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, construction of staff houses at ‘Hanjamba’ Health Post in Pemba Parliamentary Constituency has been planned for in the 2012 Ministry of Health Infrastructure Operational Plan. 

Mr Speaker, ‘Hanjamba’ Health Post is not yet fully operational …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hajamba!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am sure that the counseling can be done after the sitting. 

Laughter 

Dr Chikusu: The facility, however, is currently being used monthly as an outreach post, providing ante-natal, family planning, pos-natal and child health services. It will only be fully operational when there are staff houses and qualified staff stationed there.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

 Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, who is providing these services because there is currently no nurse at the health post?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for reminding me about the staff situation at this particular health post. 

Sir, the issue of whether there is a nurse or not in a health post, as I have mentioned before, does not really arise because a health post does not, by definition, have the list of staff comprising a nurse or midwife. Therefore, while I recognise your concern that somebody should be there, and we accept that there have been interruptions, we do not necessarily need to have a nurse at a health post.

I thank you, Sir. 

DESIGNATED BUS STOPS

517. Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)whether the Government had any plans to compel minibus drivers to pick up and drop off passengers at designated bus stops; and

(b)when the Government would upgrade the Luwingu Bus Station.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Masumba): Mr Speaker, the Road Traffic Act, No. 11 of 2002, compels taxis to operate from designated taxi ranks as prescribed by a local authority established under the Local Government Act. Similarly, the Government is currently considering rationalising the operations of bus stations and operators. This will, in turn, introduce provisions that will compel bus operators to drop and pick up passengers at designated bus stations.

Sir, the construction and rehabilitation of bus stations requires high capital investment.  Due to the limited budgetary provisions for bus stations in the 2012 Budget, the Government does not have immediate plans for the upgrading or, indeed, construction of a new bus station in Luwingu during 2012. However, it is soliciting for funding from co-operating partners to assist in the construction of modern bus stations in various parts of the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, in the past, the running of bus stations and markets has been marred by being controlled by political cadres. Will the new Government change the stance and allow the proper wings of government to control bus stations?

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, just like the hon. Member of Parliament for Lupososhi has said, the ‘new Government’ is, indeed, new and the approach is totally different.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: What used to happen, where cadres were allowed to collect levies from bus stations and markets, is a thing of the past.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: The mandate has been restored to the local authorities. At the moment, the local authorities are the ones charged with the responsibility of collecting this revenue.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, lately, people have been complaining that passengers are dropped off at undesignated places in Lusaka. Is the Government monitoring this situation?

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, when it comes to issues of contravening traffic regulations, I think that this is not our baby, but that of the Road Traffic Safety Agency (RTSA). It is the responsibility of traffic officers to enforce compliance.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it would appear that the hon. Deputy Minister is speaking out of ignorance.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Is he not aware …

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Ignorance is an English word. 

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister not aware that this Parliament passed the Markets and Bus Stations Act, and that there are not supposed to be any private individuals running bus stations? If he is aware, how come there are so many private bus stations in Lusaka that are not being managed by the Lusaka City Council? 

Interruptions

Mr Musukwa: Ama jealousy!

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, how I wish that the hon. Member had a chance to serve in the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Boma!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am also in charge of the governance of the House.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was telling the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central that he has spent almost all his political career without serving in a Government. As such, …

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Laughter

Mr Ng’onga: Mwacimutendeka fye!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think that it is better to stick to the point. I do not wish to encourage that kind of jab. Please, can you provide the answer to the supplementary question.

Mr Masumba: As a build up to the answer, Mr Speaker, I said …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Do not qualify the Speaker’s ruling. Just give the answer.

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, of course, as I earlier mentioned, laws have been in place for some time, but the difficult part has been their enforcement. That is why, when another hon. Member asked us a question, we said that, in this Government, the approach will be different. We are trying to put in place better systems and ensure that the existing laws are enforced to tackle these challenges. I hope that the hon. Member would be happy when there is order at bus stations and markets. Otherwise, there has been a breakdown of law and order in the past.

I thank you, Sir.

SUB-CENTRES IN SENANGA

518. Mr Mufalali (Senanga) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health when the ministry would open sub-centres at the following locations in Senanga Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)Sibukali;

(ii)Mata;

(iii)Liangati;

(iv)Lipuwe;

(v)Luimweemba;

(vi)Mwanamwalye; and

(vii)Sikumbi.

The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, my ministry does not have immediate plans to open new sub-centres in Senanga Parliamentary Constituency in the areas listed. However, the opening of new sub-centres depends on the recommendations of the provincial community development officers in consultation with the provincial administration. The ministry would then submit the request to the Cabinet Office for authority to open up the proposed centres. This would involve recruiting sub-centre staff and obtaining Treasury authority from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, what procedure should we use for us to talk to the District Community Development Officer in order to have sub-centres?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, as I have stated in my earlier response, the request is supposed to come from where the need is, meaning that the district has to request the Provincial Community Development Officer to recommend the opening of new sub-centres in these districts.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

YOUTH RECREATION FACILITY IN SHANG’OMBO

519. Mr Njeulu (Sinjembela) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport whether the Government had any plans to construct a youth recreation facility in Shang’ombo.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mubukwanu): Mr Speaker, recreation facilities are a responsibility of local authorities, not the Ministry of Youth and Sport. However, the ministry has plans to build youth resource centres in each district in the country, including Shang’ombo.

Sir, these youth resource centres have an integral component of recreation in them. The local authority in Shang’ombo has not responded to the ministry’s request for a piece of land on which to construct a youth resource centre. We would like to appeal to the hon. Member of Parliament to follow this issue up as he goes back to the constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, if a piece of land is found, when, exactly, will this project commence?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think the best thing for you to do is find a piece of land first. Then, you can ask that question.

Laughter

MOTOR VEHICLES FOR DEBS OFFICE IN KAPIRI MPOSHI

520. Mr L. Zimba (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when new motor vehicles for the District Education Board Secretary’s  (DEBS) office in Kapiri Mposhi District would be procured.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, although the question is specific to Kapiri Mposhi, the context is that most of the DEBS offices across Zambia do not have adequate transport facilities. It is against this background that we have requested authority to start the procurement of new vehicles. Considering the number of districts that we have in this country, this will be implemented in phases.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Zimba: Mr Speaker, it is good that the hon. Minister has admitted that the DEBS offices have no transport at all. For Kapiri Mposhi, in particular, can he state when, exactly, these vehicles will be procured because, as things currently stand, the DEBS cannot perform due to lack of transport?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I have already given an answer and I would not want to provide a confrontational answer. We have already requested for transport and authority has been granted to procure vehicles. For me, that is the biggest milestone. Currently, we are in the process of procuring these vehicles. So, when the vehicles will be available, a decision will be made as to when Kapiri Mposhi District will be given a vehicle.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, since you have been given authority to buy these vehicles, which you said will be distributed in phases, those of us from old districts would like to know under which phase we are in, seeing that there are more districts being created?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the only commitment I can give to this House is that, once the process begins and the vehicles are procured, we will distribute them in phases. However, as to which districts will get the vehicles first, that information is not yet available.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

DEPOSITERS OF DEFUNCT MERIDIAN BIAO

521. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a)    how many depositors had not been paid their money by the liquidators of the defunct Meridian BIAO Bank as of 30th March, 2012;

(b)    whether any money had not been claimed by the depositors as of 30th March, 2012; and

(c)    if so, how much and what had happened to the money.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Sampa): Mr Speaker, from December, 1995, to February, 2007, Meridian BIAO Bank Zambia Limited (in liquidation) declared six dividend payments in which all its former 57,540 depositors could claim and collect their monies in full.

Sir, of the total number of depositors, only 15,149 had not been paid their money, as at 30th March, 2012. 

Mr Speaker, K1,202,478,420.33 belonging to 15,149 depositors has not been claimed and collected from the Meridian BIAO Bank liquidators. This amount is being kept by the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) and is available for payment to the remaining depositors. Please, note that, upon termination of the liquidation, the unclaimed and uncollected monies will be held by the BoZ.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, was the interest taken into account when the money was paid to the depositors and account holders, looking at the duration of the bank’s liquidation?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, these funds were paid with interest. In addition, most of the money, amounting to K1 billion, has not been claimed because most depositors have not come forward to claim it. The advertisement on the bank’s liquidation clearly stated that those who had money with Meridian BIAO Bank should come and claim their funds, but they have not done so and we are considering publishing a list of these individuals. In case some of the depositors may have died and their families do not know that their relatives had an account with the bank, publishing the names will help alert the relatives.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, banks ensure that they have the addresses and other details of clients. What problem is the liquidator having in informing the account holders of Meridian BIAO about the state of affairs when their details are in the bank’s records? 

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, that is the next step that we want the liquidator to take. However, a bank only does what the owner of an account tells it to do. So, maybe, some account holders did not sign up to receive correspondence from the bank or did not provide the bank with their addresses. We do not know what the mandate was between the owners of accounts and Meridian BIAO. However, it is incumbent upon all of us and the nation at large to ensure that when we have a bank account, our families know about it …

Laughter

Mr Sampa: … so that in case of anything, the bank knows who to get in touch with to release those funds. Nonetheless, let me emphasise that the list of people owed money by this bank will now be published. On the other hand, maybe, the account holders have just given up the monies because of the passage of time. Remember the bank closed many years ago. We are talking about amounts such as K70,000 and K200,000. Therefore, some people might feel that the amounts involved are not worth the hustle. For example, an account holder with Meridian BIAO might be in Mufulira.  Therefore, coming to Lusaka to claim such little money is not worth the trouble.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo): Sir, I just want to make a follow up to the question by Hon. Muntanga. Where can a small depositor in Malambo enquire about issues regarding the money in question?

Mr Sampa: Sir, the chances of someone in Malambo having an account with Meridian BIAO are quite slim because this bank did not have a branch in that area.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Sampa: However, that said, it could have been that somebody was in Lusaka at the time he/she opened an account with this bank, but has since retired and gone to the village in Malambo. In that case, he/she would need to travel to the central bank, ask for the manager in charge of Meridian BIAO’s liquidation who would then attend to the individual’s claim.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, how soon will the list be published because the hon. Deputy Minister said that it has been published before, but people never came forward to make their claims?

Mr Sampa: Sir, as soon as possible.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

MODERN MARKET AT CHEMBE IN CHEMBE DISTRICT

522. Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the construction of a modern market at Chembe in Chembe District would commence.

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, the construction of modern markets requires high capital investment. Due to the limited budget provisions for markets over the past years, including in the 2012 Budget, the Government does not have immediate plans for the construction of a modern market at Chembe in Chembe Parliamentary Constituency. However, the Government has continued soliciting for funds from co-operating partners to assist in the construction of modern markets and bus stations countrywide.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I congratulate you on being straight to the point.

Interruptions

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the Chembe we are talking about here is not the constituency, but the district. Markets are one of the most important infrastructure which should be considered before the Government creates a new district in its new way of doing things.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ask your question.

Mr Mbulakulima: Is the Government not considering putting up a modern market in a new district like Chembe?

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, the Government is also aware of the importance of building markets. However, we are saying that it all depends on the availability of resources. Once the resources are  made available, we will have to build the market because we know that we have people who voted for us in Chembe whom we would love to serve.

I thank you, Sir.  

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

MONTHLY PENSION FOR PENSIONERS

523. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning when the rates of monthly pension paid to pensioners would be revised to take into account the value of the kwacha.

Mr Sampa: Sir, the review of the rates of pensions for pensioners is enshrined in the Public Service Pensions Fund Act, 1996. According to Section 54 of the Act, the Public Service Pensions Board is mandated to review the monthly pension from time to time depending on the availability of resources. In 2012, the board reviewed these payments and increased them by 10 per cent.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Sir, why does the Government pay this money at intervals to pensioners and not on a monthly basis?

Mr Sampa: Sir, ideally, these funds should be paid monthly, but there are pensioners who have preferred to be paid once a year, for example, because the average is only about K150,000 per month. So, receiving this money on a monthly basis becomes tedious. Thus, some of them have opted to receive the payment quarterly, bi-annually or annually.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Deputy Ministers behind the hon. Deputy Minister answering, please, consult quietly.

Mr Sampa: I seem to have lost my thought.

Laughter

Mr Sampa: I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, our parents who are retired, especially from the Civil Service, continue to receive very miserable monthly pensions. The hon. Deputy Minister has already mentioned that the average is about K150,000. However, we also know that these poor monthly pensions are due to the miserable investment of pension funds by the institutions responsible for administering them. Does the Government have any plans to separate investment funds from pension funds for institutions so that these funds are not wasted on useless projects?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member’s observation. Some pension houses do not even have what are called actuaries. These are people who can project the investment that an institution should make so that when the time comes to pay pensioners, the institution is able to do so. Part of the reason some pensioners are not paid on time is that some of these pension houses do not have the money when it is time to pay them. In the past, the Government even used to issue cheques amounting to K150,000. By the time clearing fees were deducted, the whole amount would have been taken up. So, now, we are paying them electronically. The money goes straight into the pensioners’ accounts.

However, getting back to the hon. Member’s question, we are working on the issue of separating the wing holding the pension fund and the one investing it. The guidelines actually state that the two wings should be separated. The people holding the funds and the people who are supposed to invest them should not be in one environment. We are working towards that way of doing things because it is actually supported by the law. The problem has been that there has been a tendency of not wanting to enforce the law. We will ask the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) to delegate the role of investing the pension funds to another broker or institution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I am aware that the Government is very inconsistent in sending the monthly contributions to the pension fund. What is the PF Government doing to address this situation? This is why the Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Finance and National Planning responsible for the pension fund is in serious problems.

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, all the problems which we are facing can be sorted out by us having increased cash inflows. Currently, when the Government receives money, it immediately uses it on various expenditures. When money comes into Government coffers, it immediately goes to provisions such as the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and sorting out urgent problems. Thus, we are looking at ways of putting in place measures that will increase the income we earn. We have already implemented certain measures. For example, we have increased the mineral royalty tax to 6 per cent. When you look at the figures for last year and where we stand presently, you will notice that the PF Government has increased income from the mines by 40 per cent. With such money coming in, we can be paying the pensioners on time.

Thank you, Sir.

PATIENTS REFERED FOR TREATMENT ABROAD

524.    Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Health what measures the Government had taken to reduce the number of patients being referred for treatment abroad.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that treatment abroad is part of the referral system for complicated cases which cannot be handled through our health care system. This is a standard practice worldwide.

However, it should be noted that referring patients abroad is an expensive undertaking. For example, since January, 2012, thirty-four patients have been referred abroad for specialised treatment at a cost of K2.9 billion. As at June 30, 2012, there were sixty patients on the waiting list. 

Many of the cases referred abroad and those on the waiting list had to do with heart, kidney, cancer and eye-related illnesses.

Mr Speaker, in order to reduce on the number of patients being referred for treatment abroad, the Government has taken the following measures:

(i)established a strong referral system. The Ministry of Health has developed a basic health care package which spells out what each level of health facility should and must do in line with its competences. This will reduce the time between diagnosis of a condition and the implementation of an appropriate intervention. Ultimately, this approach will reduce the number of patients referred abroad because treatment would have been instituted before any life threatening complications manifest which usually prompt the reference of patients abroad. 

(ii)the ministry has procured critical care services equipment for provincial hospitals. The equipment is currently being installed and there is an orientation of the end users of the equipment. In addition to that, the ministry has opened a one-year critical care services training unit for nurses at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). This is a specialised unit were nurses with basic qualifications undertake a detailed instruction course on how to handle patients who are in a critical condition. This effort is augmented by sending specialised consultants in paediatrics, medicine, obstetrics, gynaecology and general surgery to the provincial hospitals. It is envisaged that the situation will improve with improved intake of specialist trainees at the School of Medicine at the University of Zambia (UNZA).

(iii)the Ministry if Health is in the process of procuring computer tomography (CT) scans for the UTH and Livingstone General Hospital as well as the Ndola and Kitwe central hospitals. This will improve on early diagnosis of conditions for prompt interventions. 

(iv)the ministry is also in the process of establishing a cardiac catheterisation laboratory where most of the cardiac conditions will be handled locally, and hence reduce on them being referred abroad. In addition to that, the ministry has procured and distributed electro cardiogram (ECG) machines at all provincial hospitals. This was done in order to improve the diagnosis and management of some known communicable diseases at provincial hospitals. The ministry is also strengthening the establishment of the Renal Services units at the Ndola Central and Livingstone General hospitals.

(v)the Ministry of Health signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Apollo Hospitals of India which is already in effect. One of the thematic areas behind the MoU is that, from time to time, specialists in different areas from Appollo Hospitals will be coming to Zambia to carry out operations. This approach will not only increase the number of patients seen by the specialists in specific areas, but also provide clinical mentorship for our Zambian doctors. However, in an event that a particular case requires specialist equipment, the MoU provides for referral to Apollo Hospitals’ facilities in India at reasonable rates. In the long-term, we hope to establish a comprehensive model.

(vi)the cancer disease hospital was constructed which greatly reduced the number of patients being sent for treatment abroad. Before the construction of this hospital, all cervical cancer patients, about 30 per cent of them, and breast cancer patients were referred to Zimbabwe and South Africa. Nowadays, all the patients are treated locally. Thus, the Government has made significant savings from this initiative. However, a small fraction of complicated cases that need radiotherapy planning and highly specialised surgical interventions like oesophagectomy are still being referred abroad.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I have always said that if you plan to ask a follow-up question, do not wait for me to open the Floor for you to indicate your wish to do so because, at that stage, it is difficult for me to decide who to give the opportunity first. 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. However, I wish to state that we usually try to give priority to the hon. Member who asked the principal question. 

Mr Speaker, most of the conditions for which people are referred abroad are due to complications or, indeed, due to non-communicable diseases which are now on the increase. What are you doing as a matter of policy to sensitise citizens on these non-communicable diseases? As you know, prevention is better than cure and can help us save millions of kwacha.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for drawing my attention to the growing scourge of non-communicable diseases. He might recall that, in my report on the visit to Geneva for the World Health Assembly, I emphasised that the support to the control of non-communicable diseases was highlighted as one of the major areas in which we shall collaborate with the rest of the world, hence the investments that are increasingly coming forward for that purpose. Specifically to say, information and lifestyle are the strongest spear against non-communicable diseases. I believe that our programme is now established and will expand to cater for this very important issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I notice that the hon. Member for Chilubi is the one who had asked the principal question. After the hon. Minister’s response, I said, “next,” but he did not indicate and that is why I called on the hon. Member for Lukulu East to ask. Now, hon. Member for Chilubi, you are indicating. When you do not indicate, it makes it very difficult for us to know whether you would like to pose a follow-up question or not. Please, when you want to ask a follow-up question, especially if you are the one who asked the principal question, indicate so that you are given priority. Now, I have to call on an hon. Member on the other side and then come back to you, which should not be the case. Therefore, as a lesson, you will not have the chance to ask a follow-up question today.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the set back is at the Cancer Diseases Hospital, seeing that we still refer cancer patients abroad.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, as previously described, there is a range of capacities required for various stages and types of cancer. So, although, broadly, we are talking of cancer and, indeed, other diseases, there are certain stages and cancers that we are not yet able to handle. As an example, there are cancers that are not responsive to the radiotherapy which is now available. That constitutes a challenge to us which requires us to still maintain our collaboration with others only for those conditions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that some cases are still being referred abroad, especially in the radiotherapy department. Could I know whether or when the ministry intends to purchase radiotherapy equipment and have the expertise locally to curtail the referrals.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, let me first clarify what I said. We have radiotherapy equipment and that is the mainstay of treatment currently in our Cancer Diseases Hospital. However, there are certain conditions which do not respond to that. So, the treatment of cancer, though seen as one treatment, in fact, is not. It is a range of treatments. That is why, in some cases, we feel we are unable to deal with them.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out to what extent telemedicine is assisting in the management of patients with various types of cancer.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for raising that very important issue in which he and I have had interest for a long time. I think we shall probably need to continue our discussion outside the Chamber in order to shorten my response.

Mr Speaker, the development of telemedicine is one of those developments which will change the face of the way we manage conditions. As an example, today, in Zambia, we are able to refer pictures for consultation to a totally different geographical location. In other words, already, today, where a doctor or  nurse has discovered a condition which can be placed on a picture, he/she can send it to somebody who can interpret it within the country or, indeed, outside the country. This is already ongoing although it will require us to develop it further so as to use it more and also to train our health workers. 

Mr Speaker, I think that the coming of e-learning and telemedicine is a major development to which the hon. Member and I must continue to contribute.

I thank you, Sir.

LIVESTOCK FACILITIES IN SHANG’OMBO

525. Mr Njeulu asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    when dip tanks in Shang’ombo District would be constructed;

(b)    what the future of the cordon line in  the Western Province was;

(c)    why most of the camps were not manned by cordon guards;

(d)    when the Government would build veterinary and agricultural training institutions in  the Western Province;

(e)    when the Shang’ombo State Ranch, which was abandoned by previous governments, would be revived; and

(f)    when the cattle restocking exercise in Shang’ombo District would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the Government has no plans to construct dip tanks in Shang’ombo District as of now. The ecological system in Shang’ombo area does not support the infestation of ticks and subsequent prevalence of tick-borne disease.

Sir, in 2010/2011, there was a shift in the control strategy of Contagious Bovine Plural Pneumonia (CBPP) since the disease had moved inland as far as Zambezi, Mwinilunga, Kazungula and Chavuma districts. The strategy is now to roll back the disease from these areas to the source and beyond. 

Furthermore, the cordon line is so porous that it no longer serves the purpose it was constructed for. Over the years, the cordon line has also been vandalised and difficult to maintain. Therefore,  it was felt that the cordon line should be done away with and, instead, maintain a herd of animals that will be protected from CBPP through vaccinations. Authority to re-direct materials meant for the maintenance of the cordon line was granted by the Cabinet and these materials have subsequently been distributed for the rehabilitation of quarantine stations at Simonga and other livestock service centres.

Mr Speaker, since the cordon line approach of trying to keep the CBPP away from Zambia was abandoned, there is no need to maintain cordon guards.

Sir, the Western Province has a farmer training institute located at Namushakende off Senanga Road and farmer training centres located in every district. These facilities are meant to provide training in crop husbandry, livestock, fisheries and co-operative development. The farmer training institute and centres are, from time to time, rehabilitated when there are funds. There are also plans to construct farmer training centres in the new districts created in the Western Province.

Mr Speaker, the Shang’ombo Livestock Breeding Centre, which is the former Shang’ombo State Ranch, has been earmarked for development and the civil works are to commence this year. The Department of Livestock Development has already allocated K286,729,744 for the construction works. 

Mr Speaker, the Government has set up a Livestock Breeding Centre in Shang’ombo District for purposes of cattle re-stocking. Cattle introduced to Shang’ombo District will be protected from CBPP through periodic vaccinations. Additionally, the Livestock Service Centre, in Shang’ombo, has been allocated K91 million in the ministry’s 2012 budget for construction and rehabilitation works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, since the ministry has changed the strategy regarding the cordon line and does not intend to keep the guards any more, what does it intend to do with them in the immediate future? Is the ministry going to re-deploy or lay them off?

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, the position, as it stands, is that the guards that used to man the cordon line fell victim of the Structural Adjustment Programme and the Public Service Reform Programme. So, they are no longer in the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, cattle are highly valued. It is very sad that the Ministry of Livestock was abolished. Now that the Government has reverted to …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Can you ask your question, please.

Mr Simfukwe: Now that the ministries that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) left have been reinstated by the new Government, when is the Ministry of Livestock going to be re-established?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, that question borders on the prerogative of the Head of State. Therefore, I will not be in a position to give the hon. Member the answer that he is seeking to get.

I thank you, Sir.

MAMBOLOMOKA RURAL HEALTH CENTRE IN SHANG’OMBO

526. Mr Njeulu asked the Minister of Health why Mambolomoka Rural Health Centre, in Shang’ombo District, had continued to be administered from Kalabo District.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, Mambolomoka Rural Health Centre is actually in Kalabo District even though it is nearer Shang’ombo Township. It is 30 km away from Shang’ombo and 186 km from Kalabo. The health centre has been administratively managed from Kalabo District. However, this has posed some challenges due to the long distance and poor communication.

Mr Speaker, the Technical Committee appointed to prepare the Shang’ombo Integrated Development Plan, which sat in Senanga from 12th to 19th January, 2012, and was chaired by the Deputy Permanent Secretary for the Western Province, deliberated over the issue and resolved the following:

(a)that the Permanent Secretary for the Western Province should facilitate the transfer of both the political and administrative functions to Shang’ombo District; and

(b)Mambolomoka Rural Health Centre should be included on the Shang’ombo Integrated Development Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, in fact, Mambolomoka is in Shang’ombo District in my constituency, Sinjembela?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, how could I possibly contradict the opinion of the hon. Member who comes from the district? Of course, I agree with him.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

ZOZWE POLICE POST IN VUBWI

527. Dr Kazonga (Vubwi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)when Zozwe Police Post, in Vubwi Parliamentary Constituency, would be provided with staff houses and appropriate police cells; and

(b)when the ministry would renovate the staff houses and improve the water reticulation system at Vubwi Police Camp.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, Zozwe Police Post … 

Interruptions

Dr Simbyakula: What is the problem?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Minister is answering the question which refers to Zozwe Police Post.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Simbyakula: I wish to inform the House that the Government, through the Zambia Police Force Infrastructure Development Plan, intends to build staff houses and appropriate police cells for Zozwe Police Post when funds have been sourced. 

Secondly, Mr Speaker, the renovation of staff houses and improvement of the water reticulation system at Vubwi Police Camp will also be carried out once there are funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if special consideration can be made for Zozwe Police Post, in particular, to have staff houses constructed because it is very strategic in its location bordering three countries, Zambia, Malawi and Mozambique, and there are a lot of trans-border activities requiring the services of the police. Is the hon. Minister in a position to make consideration for next year?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am beginning to wonder what is so special about Zozwe.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, indeed, Zozwe Police Post is in a very strategic location and Vubwi is now a district. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government has created about eleven or thirteen districts because services have to be brought closer to our people and these are Pemba, Chikankata, Sinda, Mulobezi, Shibuyunji, Rufunsa, Mafinga, and Ikeleng’i. So, all the ministries will have a presence in the districts. 

Mr Speaker, the ministry will put up infrastructure befitting the status of new districts. So, Zozwe is in a very strategic position, as Hon. Dr Kazonga has put it, because it borders three countries. The ministry intends to bring infrastructure to Zozwe. However, I will not be in a position to inform the House exactly when until we are sure when funds will be made available because we do not want to make false assurances here.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, should we rely on the transformation of places such as Zozwe to districts before services or development can be taken to such places, given that your Government is creating districts without a plan. For instance, you have asked Choma District Council to share resources with Pemba for Pemba to be operational.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, this Government has been providing services countrywide, and not just to the new districts, when there are funds. Talking about plans, this Government plans seriously ...

Laughter

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, let them not laugh yet. They do not know what is coming. In any undertaking, whether it is an election or a job, a person must plan. If you do not plan, or your plan is flawed, you will come to grief. We held an election in September, 2011, and some people came to grief.

Hon. Government Member: Because of lack of a plan.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, some people are sitting on this side of the House because of good planning.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I can assure my learned friend that this Government does plan. We are now working on the Budget for 2013. Wait and see when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning presents his Budget.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

CONSTRUCTION OF DAMS COUNTRYWIDE

528. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the Government would construct dams, where necessary, countrywide and in particular, Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, due to financial limitations, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has no immediate plans to construct dams countrywide, nor in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency. However, the ministry has plans for the construction and rehabilitation of small multi-purpose dams in selected areas with fisheries and livestock activities, and those with high potential for irrigation investment. These irrigation projects are demand driven by the farmers with clear objectives in terms of what they intend to utilise the dams for, and with clear market linkages.

Mr Speaker, the ministry normally responds to demands by the beneficiaries for assistance to implement the construction of multi-purpose dams. Farmers in Nangoma are, therefore, encouraged to approach their respective Agriculture Camp Extension Officers and District Agriculture Co-ordinators (DACOs) for technical and extension advice if they need this kind of assistance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, we have heard that the Government has no plans.

Interruptions

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, that is true. Since the hon. Minister knows that it has no plan, and that we have a lot of animals which pupils are sharing boreholes with, I would like to find out whether he has plans to drill borehole in some areas, specifically for our cattle.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Mwewa): Mr Speaker, the Government …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwewa: … is determined to ensure that water is made available for livestock and irrigation. It is important that you pay attention to the answer when we are responding. The hon. Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was very clear. You are supposed to approach the Extension Agriculture Officer (EAO) and DACO if there is a need for a dam in a particular area. We have already provided the answer. The building of dams is community driven. If there is a need to build a dam, the Government will provide the service needed in the area.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, this Government has said that its priority is diversification. If this is its priority, why should it wait for the community to approach it?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, we listen to the community. The community makes a request and then we go and do what is right. We are not supposed to impose any project on the community.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, the community should own the project.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga:  Mr Speaker, the various hon. Ministers in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock have various answers. They are asking for community-driven projects. However, their usual answer is, “we have no plan to do this.” When will they have a plan so that when they go to inform the people, they will be able to state that they have planned to build so many dams in a particular area? When will that happen?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, I have already said that this issue is demand driven. It should come from the people. We will work on that when the people request for it. We are not going to do things without the support of the people. The people should give us direction. This Government will listen to the people because it is there for the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has confirmed that the Government has no plan. It will wait for the plan from the people.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, no wonder it is abolishing the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please ask your question.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the question is: Is the failure to plan a consequence of the abolition of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, that question leaves much to be desired. If I say that something is demand driven, does it mean that there is no plan? We have a plan. The 2012 Budget clearly stipulates which dam we are going to attend to. However, there are requests that come from the people. We are going to do what people want. There is a plan for 2012, look at it and it will show you how many dams we are going to build. 

I will give you an example …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on the right, you are disturbing him. Let him be heard. 

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has already planned for the following dams and irrigation schemes to be worked on in the 2012 Budget:

 Name of Dam/Irrigation Scheme                District

    Mulundu Dam and Irrigation Scheme             Mufulira
Lukupa Irrigation Scheme                     Kasama
Kashamba Dam                         Kaoma
Chishamba Dam                         Kaoma
Kanyimba Dam                         Sesheke 
Chibalashi Irrigation Scheme                 Mansa
Kapako Dam                         Kawambwa
Chebele Irrigation Scheme                 Mwense
Zalapango Irrigation Scheme                 Luangwa 

Sir, these are the dams and irrigation schemes that we planned for in the 2012 Budget. However, there are those that are not in the 2012 Budget, but are included because there is demand in that area. That is why we are saying that for such dams, we will come to the community’s aid.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I am just seated next to the hon. Deputy Minister here. He said that the Government had no plans to construct dams countrywide. He further said that this should be people driven. If the people of Nangoma …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, ask your question. I allowed you to make a preliminary. 

Mr Namulambe: If the people of Nangoma and Mpongwe submitted the plans today, will the Government construct the dams in those two areas?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, the answer…

Hon. Government Members: Is yes!

Mr Mwewa: … is yes.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter
__________

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNANCE, HOUSING, ENVIRONMENT AND CHIEFS’ AFFAIRS 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing, Environment and Chiefs’ Affairs, for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 18th July, 2012.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr M. H. Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order No. 157 (2), which outlines the mandate of your Committee, your Committee considered the report of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing on summarised audited accounts of councils.

Sir, twenty-nine councils appeared before your Committee to answer to the queries that were raised in the report, broken down as follows:

(i)one city council;

(ii)five municipal councils; and

(iii)twenty-three district councils.

Mr Speaker, I am confident that hon. Members have read the report. Therefore, I will be very brief and only highlight the salient issues.

Sir, your Committee is disturbed by what is obtaining in the local authorities. Let me start with the issue of unremitted statutory obligations. Councils have huge statutory debts. Your Committee would like to remind the House that in 2008, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing cleared all the statutory debts that local authorities owed. Surprisingly, statutory debts have accumulated, again, to alarming levels.

Sir, the indebtedness of local authorities at 31st December, 2011, stood at K341 billion, broken down as follows:

Debt    Amount (K’bn)
        
Unpaid salaries      48 

    Unremitted employees 
Pensions to Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF)     50 

    Unpaid retirees terminal benefits    225 

Unremitted Workers Compensation Annual Assessment     18

Total    341    

Mr Speaker, as I have stated, these were the figures as at 31st December, 2011. This means that the figures have since gone up. This is a very sad state of affairs and will render most council insolvent.

Sir, your Committee urges the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to assist councils meet these statutory obligations. Otherwise, councils will be swallowed up in debt.

Mr Speaker, your Committee recommends that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing starts recovering money from the council’s grants at source and remit it to the statutory bodies.

Sir, your Committee is concerned about the operation of councils in terms of fiscal discipline. The issue of unretired imprest and the failure to prepare financial statements, which has been ongoing without redress, are a clear indication of a general prevalence of poor financial oversight in the councils.

Mr Speaker, the Financial Regulations of 1992 are very clear on the retirement of imprest. It should be retired within forty-eight hours upon return of the officer to his/her station. Financial regulations also stipulate that when an officer fails to retire imprest within forty-eight hours, recoveries should be instituted immediately.

Sir, what is saddening is the lack of diligence on principal officers who appear to take corrective action only after the auditors point these anomalies out.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Some of the hon. Members on my right are consulting loudly and are not listening. Please, sober down.

Could the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, this has been a major contributing factor to the weaknesses in the management of accounting systems and internal controls.

Sir, your Committee urges the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to ensure that staff in the Financial Department of councils is conversant with the financial regulations. The ministry should take disciplinary action against officers who fail to enforce the financial regulations. The ministry needs to strengthen its oversight role over the councils. 

Mr Speaker, this brings me to the next point of unqualified staff in local authorities. Your Committee learnt, with shock, that most of the staff in local councils are under-qualified, but occupy managerial positions. One case in point is Chadiza Council which, at one time, had a Grade 10 school leaver as a Council Treasurer.

Sir, there is misfiling and misplacement of accounting documents such as payment vouchers, receipts and receipt books. Documents go missing at the time of audit, only to resurface when councils are summoned to appear before your Committee. Your Committee is convinced that this is a way of hiding fraud from the auditors, as it is consistently prevalent and recurrent in councils. This practice should be curbed immediately.

Mr Speaker, your Committee urges the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to ensure that stern disciplinary action is taken against officers who are responsible for such documents. If councils continue to operate in this fashion, the local authorities will ground to a halt.

Sir, let me now make some comments on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This fund is meant to develop the constituencies. In 2006, guidelines on the utilisation of the CDF were issued to all local authorities. What saddens your Committee is that it seems principal officers in local authorities are pressurised to go against these guidelines by hon. Members of Parliament …

Mr Muntanga: Ooh!

Mr Sing’ombe: … and councillors. 

Sir, one such council is Chibombo, where money was disbursed indiscriminately due to pressure from the area hon. Member of Parliament. Principal officers were threatened with transfers and dismissals if they did not do what the hon. Member of Parliament wanted. A motor vehicle, ABV 1000, was bought using the CDF, but registered in the name of the area hon. Member of Parliament …

Interruptions

Mr Sing’ombe: … and has been in his custody since. 

Sir, in as much as the CDF is tempting, hon. Members of Parliament and councillors should resist the temptation to use it for personal gain. Investigative wings should follow up these criminal offences. Your Committee also urges the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to organise countrywide workshops to sensitise all the councillors and Members of Parliament on the use of the CDF to avoid such unfortunate situations. 

Mr Speaker, in order to appreciate the operations of councils, your Committee undertook a local tour to seven councils, namely Itezhi-tezhi, Mumbwa, Gwembe, Monze, Sinazongwe, Namwala and Livingstone. Your Committee found that there was poor maintenance of council infrastructure, especially guesthouses and office blocks. Most of the infrastructure had leaking roofs, damaged ceiling boards and dirty walls. Councils are supposed to take the lead in keeping Zambia clean but, if they remain in the state in which they are, then, there is no hope of seeing cleanliness in our towns. In this regard, your Committee urges the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to ensure that councils renovate and maintain their buildings. 

Sir, when your Committee toured Gwembe District Council,  it found that the administrative centre and the council were in two different locations about 63km apart and linked by a road that is in a bad state. This has made the operations of the council difficult. Your Committee would like to recommend to the Government, as a matter of urgency, to shift the administrative offices to where the council is located to harmonise the administration of the district. 

Mr Speaker, during your Committee’s tour, it became apparent that revenue collection was not effective in councils. There are many areas where councils can collect revenue through, but they fail to do so. Further, revenue collected often does not reach the councils because there are no proper mechanisms to monitor revenue collection. One good example is Livingstone City Council. In the past years, revenue collected in the revenue office at the civic centre was K4 million per day but, when a new Town Clerk was sent there, and she put safety nets in place, the revenue office began collecting about K25 million to K40 million a day. In markets and bus stations, levies are collected by individuals. Have you ever wondered why party cadres want to kill each other over the control of markets and bus stations? It is because of the colossal sums of money that are shared every day. The money, which is meant for service delivery, is shared by a few individuals, who go unpunished. This should come to an end.{mospagebreak}

Sir, the other issue your Committee found during its tour is that marketeers at Zimbabwe Market in Livingstone complain that most marketeers were trading outside the market. They were trading on the street and did not pay the daily levy paid by those in the market. Your Committee implores the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to quickly sieve the workforce in all councils to clean up the mess. If the councils are left in the state they are in, with wrong people in higher positions, there will be no local government to talk about in the next few years.

Mr Speaker, the other matter of concern is that almost all council property in the country is not on title. It is either the principal officers do not understand the procedure of obtaining title deeds or it is just due to inertia. Your Committee urges the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to liaise with her counterpart in the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to fast-track the issuance of title deeds to secure council property. Some councils have lost land due to lack of title. 

Mr Speaker, let me conclude my debate by thanking the hon. Members of your Committee, who worked diligently and travelled on rough roads to visit the councils during the tour. The team spirit of your Committee was excellent. I would like to thank Dr E. Kazonga, MP, who led the Committee on the last leg of the local tour and did a commendable job. 

Mr Speaker, allow me to also thank the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the Office of the Auditor-General, whose representatives attended the meetings of the Committee as permanent witnesses and were with the Committee on its tours. I thank them for their valuable contributions. I also thank the Town Clerks and Council Secretaries who appeared before your Committee for the valuable information provided.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is indebted to you for the guidance rendered to it during the deliberations. Gratitude also goes to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the excellent manner in which they handled the affairs of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr M. H. Malama: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the Chairperson of your Committee who has highlighted the issues that were deliberated on. The Chairperson has already captured the views of your Committee on this Motion. Therefore, I shall only make a few comments on other issues that caught the attention of your Committee. 

Sir, allow me to comment on the persisting misapplication and misappropriation of funds. It has become worrying to your Committee because it is apparent that the grant that the Government continues to release to the local authorities is not being spent on service delivery, as should be the case, but is appropriated on recurrent expenses. It is important to begin to evaluate what percentage of these grants end up being used for their intended purpose. It is equally important to note that the resources available are scarce and, therefore, must be utilised with caution and prudence. 

If this issue is not addressed, capital projects will continue to suffer and efforts to develop our communities and, ultimately, the nation will continue to degenerate. Your Committee, therefore, urges the ministry to take a stern position and put stringent measures in place to ensure greater accountability of public funds, and improve its oversight function over local authorities. It is not enough to simply warn and caution or transfer erring and non-performing controlling officers.

Mr Speaker, allow me to comment on the issue of statutory debts of local authorities. As the Chairperson pointed out in his debate, the ministry has intervened to assist local authorities in clearing their debt, and yet the debt has escalated again. Clearly, the situation is becoming unsustainable. For instance, the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) is currently under threat of becoming defunct because of the continued failure by local authorities to remit dues on time. This practice has been a burden on LASF and has compromised its sustainability and operations. This development is further aggravated by the fact that LASF has a limited number of members because its membership scope is limited to local authorities. Therefore, the authority cannot new clients as members. 

Sir, it is imperative that local authorities settle their outstanding debt and remit their statutory contributions to LASF on time henceforth. 

Sir, local authorities also need to meet their statutory obligations. There must, certainly, be a solution to this persistent problem. Otherwise, it might continue to affect the other statutory bodies in a similar manner. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government, through the ministry, to intervene in this circumstance. 

Sir, your Committee also observed another emerging problem in the local authorities, which is the lack of ‘paid’ stamps. The general observation is that many transactions involving payment vouchers are not validated. Therefore, it is imperative that this anomaly is rectified because, if left unchecked, it will render the financial and accounting systems in the local authorities porous and susceptible to abuse, resulting in misappropriation of funds. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the stamps be procured by all authorities and that controlling officers ensure that cashiers and accounts officers validate all payment vouchers by having them stamped. Your Committee further urges local authorities to intensify their internal control systems so that there are checks in place to guarantee adherence to this practice.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also noted that most local authorities either have no strong rooms and storerooms or are in a deplorable state. This has contributed greatly to the poor management of documents and valuable items in the accounting and procurement departments. It is imperative that all local authorities have strong rooms so that important documents are stored and safeguarded from misuse and manipulation and are readily available when required, whether for management or audit purposes. 

Mr Speaker, additionally, your Committee is dismayed by the volume of stores items that are not being accounted for as a result of poor stores management and dilapidated storage facilities or the lack thereof in local authorities. This is worrisome because it is certainly impossible to ascertain the quantity and quality of items that were procured in the absence of receipt and disposal information. It is also impossible to establish whether the current procurement procedures were followed and whether the items are allocated to the right persons and departments. Your Committee, therefore, urges the ministry to institute measures aimed at improving the management of stores in local authorities.

Mr Speaker, your Committee would like to emphasise the need for the ministry to enforce the necessary stern disciplinary penalties to erring local authorities and controlling officers. The tendency to take corrective action only when queries have been raised, during the audits or otherwise, is unacceptable and undermines the authority of your Committee as well as the authorities of the supervisory agencies such as the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the Auditor-General’s Office.

Mr Speaker, the Chairperson has touched on the issue of unqualified staff in local authorities. Zambia is not short of qualified people. There are many qualified Zambians on the street and one wonders why the local authorities fail to employ such people. In fact, let me emphasise this issue because it is very serious. People are saying that councils lack qualified people, and yet we have many educated people on the streets. Your Committee strongly urges the ministry to impress upon the Local Government Service Commission to quickly employ qualified staff in councils. 

Mr Speaker, the Decentralisation Policy has been in draft …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You have now stopped listening.

Mr M. H. Malama: … form for years, and yet it is the solution to some of the problems that have beset local authorities. Your Committee urges the ministry to speed up the process of implementing the policy.

Mr Speaker, it is not wise for this nation to continue talking about building capacity when we can transfer qualified people from the headquarters to do the work at the grassroots. 

Lastly, but not the least, allow me to thank you, Mr Speaker, and the Clerk for the guidance rendered to your Committee during its deliberations. Let me also take this opportunity to thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the manner in which he presided over your Committee’s meetings. 

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Mr Speaker: Before I allow another hon. Member to speak, I do not want to accept failure. So far, 95 percent of the House has got used to saying ‘Mr Speaker’ or ‘Sir’, except for a few, and I hope the few will follow suit.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion on the Floor of this House. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Sir, allow me to use this opportunity to deliver my maiden speech. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to congratulate my brother, Hon. Howard Kunda, for winning the Muchinga By-election and Hon. January Zimba, …

Hon. UPND Member: December!

Reverend Sikwela: …for winning the Chama North By-election. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, I would like to start by thanking the Almighty God who made it possible for me to come here as hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Sir, my profound gratitude also goes to the leader of the United Party for National Development (UPND), Mr Hikainde Hichilema, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: … and the entire party structure for adopting me to stand on a winning ticket and for their every support in ensuring victory. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, I must admit that this victory was not easy to come by, especially when you consider that we were contesting against a party in Government, which was elected only about nine months ago. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: I must state, however, that the resounding victory we scored is a clear and living testimony that the people of Livingstone are not satisfied with the Patriotic Front’s performance thus far. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You are drowning him. Please, let him speak. 

You may continue, please.

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, allow me to also thank the campaign team and all the Opposition political parties that supported us in that struggle. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Sir, I would not have stood here as hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone if it had not been for the kind favour of the great people of Livingstone who voted for me. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, I am profoundly grateful and indebted to them on the occasion of my election to this august House. I humbly accept their mandate and pledge not to take it for granted. 

Hon. UPND Member: Like Masumba!

Laughter

Reverend Sikwela: In concluding my round of appreciation, Sir, allow me to state my immense gratitude to my family members, who have not only been supportive, but have also matched with me on this long and difficult journey to this august House. 

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, I am truly delighted with their unwavering support. 

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Reverend Sikwela: As it so happens, my wife, a Tumbuka lady, comes from Muyombe. 

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: A sister to the Speaker!    

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Do not bring in the Speaker. However, congratulations on marrying her.

Laughter

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, I truly thank all those mentioned above as well as those not mentioned. I will endeavour to deliver to the expectation of the people of Livingstone and Zambia at large. 

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: May I, at this point, state that I pledge to be a true servant of the people of Livingstone and hon. Member of Parliament for all, including the PF Members and sympathisers. We only have one Livingstone and one Zambia. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, the challenges facing the people of Livingstone are not new to this House, as those who came before me may have brought them to the attention of the nation and this House. Let me now talk about some of the challenges.

    Water and Sanitation

Mr Speaker, despite the mighty Zambezi River flowing through the city of Livingstone, many taps in our homes are dry. As I speak, the people of Livingstone are wondering why this situation is being entertained. The PF Government must redeem itself and provide solutions to our water blues.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Reverend Sikwela: Road Infrastructure

Mr Speaker, the state of roads in the area requires urgent attention as the current situation is not conducive for driving. No wonder the Mosi-o-Tunya Road has earned itself the nickname ‘Bubblegum Road’. 

Education and Health

Mr Speaker, may I bring to your attention the fact that, since 1964, no Government-sponsored secondary school has been built, apart from the David Livingstone High School, which was upgraded from primary level. 

Sir, this scenario is a serious contradiction to any serious attempt to develop the nation, as education is the key sustainable tool to national development and also the best equaliser. Furthermore, the population increase over the years has overrun the capacity for the existing schools to provide adequate access to education. 

Similarly Sir, in the health sector, the population growth calls for an expansion in the health facilities which are available to our people. 

    Unemployment

Mr Speaker, the city of Livingstone has not been spared from the lack of jobs that the country is now faced with. The closure of the textile and motor assembly industries has not helped matters. 

Furthermore, the agony of our young people is being compounded by the lack of any tangible and pragmatic economic programme of action by the ruling Government.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, while we appreciate the transfer of the provincial capital from Livingstone to Choma, I want to urge the Government to continue with infrastructure development in Livingstone in order to match its status as the tourist capital of Zambia. 

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Sir, these efforts should include the restocking of the Mosi-o-Tunya National Park and the construction of a by-pass road to Kazungula Border to shed off heavy trucks from the city.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, the nation is aware that come August, next year, the United Nations World Tourism Organisation General Assembly will be co-hosted by Livingstone and Zimbabwe. 

Mr Speaker, being from the co-host city of this very important event, I want to urge the Government to spare no effort in engaging all relevant stakeholders in ensuring that there is proper planning for the event in order to maximise opportunities that come with such an event. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Sikwela: Mr Speaker, coming to the Motion on the Floor, I want to support the recommendations of your Committee as set out on page 46, where it states that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing must intervene and assist the Livingstone City Council financially and quickly sort out its staff issues. Indeed, the markets and bus stations in Livingstone require immediate attention so that our people can trade and operate in a clean environment. 
    
Mr Speaker, with these few concerns, I want to thank you and God bless you.     

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to support the Motion on the Floor. I want to add a word or two to the issues that have been raised in the report by your Committee. 

Mr Speaker, there is an issue in your report regarding capacity and staffing levels in various district councils. Is it the qualifications that are the issue or the ability and capacity for these councils to attract qualified manpower? These are the questions that we need to ask ourselves. Could it be the policies that are wrong and, if so, …

Ms Imenda: On a Point of Order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised. 

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order. The speaker on the Floor is talking about manpower. That is an archaic terminology. We now refer to it as human resource. What about ‘womanpower’? 

I need your serious running, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended at 1815 hours until 1830 hours. 

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Deputy Speaker: When business was suspended, the House was considering the Motion moved by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi, that this House do adopt the report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing, Environment and Chiefs Affairs for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 6th July, 2012 and the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena (Ms Imenda) had raised a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Lupososhi (Mr Bwalya), wondering whether he was in order to mention only manpower, and not, also, ‘womanpower’.

My ruling on the point of order is that ‘manpower’ in the context he used it also means ‘womanpower’. So, he was in order.

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Lupososhi continue, please.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was saying that could it be that, maybe, we have policies which are not right? I know for a fact that council secretaries apply to the respective councils and are employed by them. So, if we are talking about manpower or human resource, we need to be very clear as to what is lacking in these areas.

Sir, the local authorities, and district councils to be more specific, in this country, have a very poor revenue base. This is what has made them not have the ability to attract qualified manpower which can help them to prepare financial statements. It is that manpower which can help them to ensure that they look after such documents very well.

Mr Speaker, a decision was made to sell council houses countrywide without considering where the various district and city councils were going to be getting their revenue from. Most of the revenue for the councils used to come from the same houses which were sold without building new ones. To date, the housing stock has not been replenished. That move financially crippled most of the district councils, especially those in rural areas such that their ability to attract qualified manpower was affected.

Mr Speaker, we have read in the report that statutory bodies are owed a lot of money. Have we, as a country, ever asked ourselves why we are not able to pay pensioners? Have we, as a country, ever asked ourselves why we are not able to look after our pensioners? It is because the very Government that is expected to pay the pensioners owes these statutory bodies money. The Government owes the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), the Public Service Pension Fund (PSPF) and LASIF money. How do we expect all these institutions to look after pensioners when their money is held up by ourselves, the leaders who are part of governments which come and go?

Sir, we ought to realise that until we support these district councils and help them to create a proper revenue base, we will continue singing the same song day in and day out. We have had this problem for a long time. It is high time we did things differently and helped the district councils to generate revenue.

Mr Speaker, the CDF is yet another concern. Sometime back, I heard the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing then, in this House, say that the Government was working towards coming up with an Act to deal with the CDF. Until then, there is a need for us to pay special attention to the way the CDF is utilised.

It is very saddening, Mr Speaker, to learn that using the CDF, an hon. Member of Parliament could buy a vehicle and register it in his name and still have the audacity to return to the House when the guidelines are very clear.

Hon. Member: Ba kabwalala, balya!
    
Mr Bwalya: Sir, I think being in leadership demands that we live above board and maintain our integrity. If there is a person who should understand the guidelines regarding the utilisation of the CDF, it is the hon. Member of Parliament.

So, Mr Speaker, my appeal, once again, to my own Government, is that it should make sure that we do things differently. It should ensure that we serve the Zambian people properly because it is them who gave us the mandate to preside over the affairs of this country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion on the Floor. I wish to state that I support the report of your Committee.

Sir, the report talks about a number of opportunities and challenges with regard to the functioning of local authorities. However, the challenges are more than the opportunities which have been talked about. 

Mr Speaker, it is very true to say that the local authorities lie at the centre of service delivery and poverty reduction. That is a very important point which we must understand. Even with these challenges that have been brought out in the report, which basically are linked to the misappropriation of funds, in some cases, even fraud and corruption in other cases, the question we should be asking is: To what extent are we, indeed, committed to ensuring that we put the local authorities at the centre of service delivery and poverty reduction?

In certain countries where they have realised the need for the local authorise to play a pivotal role in economic growth and poverty reduction, even the funding to the local authorities has improved. For example, in Kenya, 15 per cent of the annual budget is allocated to the local authorities. Back to our situation, when compared to the 2011 Budget, we were told that, in the 2012 Budget, there was an increase in the funding to local authorities by 43 per cent. That funding was still below 3 per cent of the whole Budget. We need to seriously look at how best we can empower the local authorities and use them as centres of service delivery. That can only be done if there is political will.

Mr Speaker, we have been talking about the issue of building capacity in the local authorities and decentralisation for some time. However, we have done more talking than actually putting things in motion. I think we now have an opportunity given that we have a new Government in place, which is led by the PF. The PF Government must seriously show that it is concerned about service delivery in the rural areas.

Mr Speaker, most of the local authorities, which were toured by your Committee, are based in rural areas and that is where poverty levels are pronounced.

Sir, in order to move forward, we should be looking at how we can use the Budget as a means of ensuring that there is improved service delivery to the people in rural areas, using the local authorities as a conduit.

Mr Speaker, as we talk about whether or not the personnel in the local authorities are competent, we should bear in mind that in their current form, the local authorities are, indeed, not attractive to work for. Anyone who is very ambitious and wants to progress in his/her career will do everything possible to avoid working in local authorities because they are not good employers. This is despite the local authorities being a very important vehicle to enhance service delivery and poverty reduction. 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to seriously make a passionate appeal regarding an issue which was talked about by your Committee and my brother from Lupososhi Constituency. That issue is the CDF. As Hon. Bwalya stated, the administration of the CDF still continues to be a challenge. We look forward to the time when the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing will be able to bring legislation concerning the CDF to this House for consideration so that we can enhance service delivery.

Sir, in my view, in a situation where local authorities were functioning properly, the CDF could not have even been in the picture. We would have just been looking at other ways of empowering the local authorities to ensure that they play a pivotal role in poverty reduction and economic growth. Most importantly, we should be thinking of giving back some of the functions that were withdrawn from the local authorities by the previous administration.

Sir, I am glad to learn that in Livingstone, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing talked about re-introducing the crop levy which provided a very good opportunity for local authorities to generate additional income.

Mr Speaker, with these remarks, I wish to support your Committee’s report.

Sir, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we have to finish the business on the order paper. I know that we are all almost going to say the same thing. So, I need one more contributor from each group. Can I have the hon. Member for Liuwa and then I will have the hon. Member for Mbabala. They should both bear in mind the time we have left. If they can, let them be brief.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. I will try my best to introduce points which are different from those that have already been touched upon by the hon. Members who have already spoken.

Sir, first of all, I would like to thank your Committee for the work which they did. They have clearly highlighted the challenges facing our councils such as the lack of funds as well as the mismanagement of resources. I fully agree your Committee that these challenges need to be addressed head on.

Mr Speaker, the Government that is in power now has a very good opportunity to address these issues. I particularly abhor the reports of financial mismanagement that are coming through and, once again, think this is an issue which the current Government can take up very strongly.

Mr Speaker, however, I want to take this point further. While I agree 100 per cent on the need to deal with financial mismanagement in councils, I think, we also need to focus on what the key problem is. The key problem in many of the councils, in my view, is that they just do not have resources. By that, I do not necessarily mean that they need to come to the Central Government with a begging bowl to ask for money. Yes, that must be done, but we should also challenge councils to generate resources on their own. It may not be enough, but I certainly see little value in having so many councils that are 100 per cent cost centres. Councils elsewhere in the world are not like that. 

When the Government chooses to create a new district, which entails having an additional local authority, normally, there should be economic activity present in that area. Then, the new council will be able to feed off it. I can take an example from the Zambian situation. If you establish a council in Lumwana, you know for sure that this council will thrive because there is economic activity there and it is growing. However, if you just stand up, today, and say you are going to establish a council in some of these places that have been mentioned, …

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: … you are absolutely assured that this council is going to be desperate because there is no economic basis for it. So, I believe that the Government needs to take this issue very seriously. It is not just about saying you need a district in a given place and, therefore, create a new council. If it is hospitals that need to be established in Shibuyunji, for example, surely, it is cheaper to just do that, is it not?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: That can be done without necessarily having to create bureaucracy by turning Shibuyunji into a district. In fact, most times, when you say you are going to establish a council in such a place, the first thing that is going to be constructed is an office block for the District Commissioner (DC), not so?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: It is not the hospitals, schools or other social services that will be provided.

Mr Nkombo: They do not understand.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, this is something that needs to be addressed very carefully. We need to be very strict with the use of our money. However, that alone is not enough. Therefore, we need to make sure that the places we turn into districts are economically viable. The way forward requires planning to get resources into these councils. This is a matter, like many other colleagues have said, we are very worried about because our colleagues across there, on your right, are always saying they do not have a plan. 

Mr Speaker, however, let me just share a few thoughts starting with what was done under the last Government. One observation that was made under the last Government was that, each time we provided resources to the councils for development, that money would not actually be utilised for development. This was because there were workers and former workers who were owed money by councils. When money was sent to councils, they would solicit the aid of sheriffs and pounce on the money. Therefore, the money for development just went towards paying off debt. 

 We, therefore, concluded that one of the important steps for the Government to take was to make sure that it cleared the debt of councils because, if we did not do that, the money that we were sending there would just be used to pay off former workers. Therefore, the PF Government should take this approach. Upon the previous Government’s realisation that it needed to clear the debt of the councils, it approached the World Bank, money was arranged and, truthfully speaking, a number of councils actually had their debt reduced substantially. It was not all of them, but the first step, in terms of debt reduction, was taken. Therefore, if the present Government does not reduce the debt of local authorities, whatever money it disburses to them, will go towards paying off debt. It will not be for service delivery. So, that was the first step. What we did was, of course, acting on the basis of clear plans and not out of confusion.

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Dr Musokotwane: The second step was to realise that most of the councils had too many employees who were weighing them down. The money that was sent to the councils was just going towards payment of salaries. There was no service provision. Therefore, it was decided that money must be found to restructure the councils and, indeed, many of them were restructured. When you restructure, the payroll becomes smaller and, likewise the ability of the council to utilise that money for service increases. That is also a very important step. 

Mr Speaker, hand in hand with ensuring that we reduced the debt of the councils and burden of manpower, we also necessitated the capacity building of the councils so that they were ready to plan and spend on development projects when money was provided. So, this is what was started.

In terms of what our colleagues can do, Mr Speaker, I think the first thing is to make sure that they complete the processes of debt reduction, restructuring and ensuring that the councils are ready in terms of financial management. In addition, I think councils need to help themselves. This issue of haphazardly creating districts and, in turn, councils will just undo the work that has already been done ...

Hon. Government Member: Question.

Dr Musokotwane: … because, if the councils are unable to sustain themselves financially and just depend on the Government − and now you are creating more and you do not have the money to give them −  the whole process will go backwards. I know that, sometimes, you agree with what is being done because of party discipline and I know that many of you do not agree with this business of creating districts haphazardly. It is something that is wrong. I know that you are intelligent people.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

The hon. Member must address the Chair. You are protected. You know that they will respond.

You can continue.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Therefore, …

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 I am looking at the time and we have to …

Mrs Masebo: No, but …

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Liuwa in order to insinuate that we agree with what he is saying when some of us do not? He is pretending as if the previous administration worked hard, and yet it lost elections because it failed to serve the Zambian people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Liuwa should take that point of order into account as he debates.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I choose not to respond to that because I think …

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: So, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, I think you should not be debating through points of order. I think we are derailing the debate. I reluctantly allow you to make the point of order.

Mr Mwiimbu: Reluctantly.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts, Hon. Masebo, in order not to acknowledge the fact that those issues which Hon. Dr Musokotwane is raising were actually initiated by her when she was in the Ministry of Local Government and Housing? Is she in order not to acknowledge that fact?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Liuwa, continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the next issue that I think is important is to implement what the PF has always said and that is to bring development to the country. If you look at most of our councils, today, they are actually being sustained by a few councils in the country. In other words, you can literally count the councils from where taxes are being paid. They include councils such as Lusaka, Mazabuka and others on the Copperbelt. They are few and, perhaps, not even more than fifteen. These are the councils where tax revenue is being generated. The rest are just cost centres, but they want water, electricity and schools.

 Therefore, I urge our colleagues, as they have always said, to take development to the countryside so that tax revenue from Chongwe, Lundazi and Milenge also becomes significant. Otherwise, we run the risk of letting the people and councillors in the rural areas always think that development can only come about if money comes from Lusaka. However, the rest of the world does not operate like that. Every settlement must contribute to tax revenue. So, I urge this Government to work very hard and ensure that development is taking place in all the corners of the country.

Mr Speaker, finally, I think that another important way of getting the councils to have solid revenue is for the Government to seriously consider some of the actions that it has taken recently because these are actually undoing …

Hon. Government Members: Which ones?

Dr Musokotwane: For example, when His Honour the Vice-President was in London – sorry, it was actually the President − ...

Mr Ng’onga: He is not here to defend himself.

Dr Musokotwane: … he announced to the investors to come to Zambia because they would be free to repatriate their profits. Then, the same Government comes around and says that it is going to restrict profit remittances. 

Hon. Government Members: No, that is not true!

Mr Ng’onga: He is bitter

Dr Musokotwane: These are two contradictory statements from the same Government.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: I do not know where we are going.

Mr Sichinga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the gentleman who is debating on the Floor of the House was not in London, but I was. I would like to know on what basis he has made that statement and where that information that investors cannot repatriate their profits is coming from because this is misleading. We want him to show evidence that that is what was said and it should be laid on the Table of this House.

Mr Speaker, this House cannot work on innuendoes. It must work on facts so that we do not create unnecessary despondency. 

Hon. Members: Point of order!

Mr Sichinga: Is the hon. Member in order to continue making that statement without providing evidence?

Mr Deputy Speaker: You have nicely debated that point of order and the hon. Minister, who will wind up debate, may take that into account.

The Hon. Member for Liuwa may continue.

Hon. Government Member: Give us a chance!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry did not understand what I said. What I said, very clearly, was that the President is the one who said that investors were free to repatriate their profits. It was all over in the press, including your own Government newspapers. 

Mr Sampa: Who said you cannot repatriate profits?

Dr Musokotwane: Yourself.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

We cannot …

Dr Musokotwane: Sorry.

Mr Deputy Speaker: … debate like that. We are showing signs of fatigue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, suddenly, because the hon. Minister said so, from now onwards, there are prescribed salaries and wages. These stipulate the minimum salary for a domestic worker. The point ...

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Liuwa, I am not sure whether that is in the report. Your debate is moving away from the report. Can you, please, zero-in on the report because of time.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I was giving advice on the way forward in terms of giving financial capacity to the councils.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think that we have a problem. In view of this fact, I will stop the debate and call on the hon. Minister to respond to the points that have been raised before I call on the mover of the Motion.

 The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to summarise the issues raised in this report. First and foremost, the PF is not going to behave in a manner that is detrimental to the development of this country. We shall take every advice that is positive on board so that we can improve service delivery in our country. However, when we feel that we are being given advice from people who failed, we are not going to take it. If you are in Grade 12 and want to pass an examination, it does not make sense to get advice from a person who failed the examination the previous year. We are going to take advice, which is positive, especially from hon. Members who mean well, for us to move this country forward. However, we are not going to accept somebody who was hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and had the opportunity to change the country for better, advising us on what to do simply because, today, he is in the Opposition. That is retrogressive.

Mr Speaker, I think that, by and large, we, as politicians, must not somersault overnight. I remember that we used to advise the previous Government. When I was a member of your Committee on Local Governance, Environment and Chiefs’ Affairs, at one time, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu and I were thrown out of your Committee because we were pushing for certain things to be done by the previous Government. Now that he is in the Opposition, Hon. Musokotwane wants to tell us what to do. We shall not go by his advice. We refuse to do that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that, over the years, financial systems in the councils have broken down. The major occurrences in most councils are as a result of the following: 

(a)poor staffing levels;

(b)the number of vacancies in finance departments;

The previous Government of the MMD …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kambwili: ... completely failed to employ qualified staff in the councils. One of the reasons for this failure was that the Government reduced the financial base of the councils. We told the MMD Government not to remove the grain levy, but it did and killed the councils in the rural areas. Today, its Members want to tell us what to do. We are going to re-introduce the grain levy so that we can build a base for the councils to make money. If you told us to re-introduce grain levy, we would have agreed with you, Hon. Dr Musokotwane, but not the rhetoric you are telling us that has no basis.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, do not make this personal.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, other factors include:

(c)the lack of qualified human resource capacity;

(d) weak supervision of accounting staff;

(e) poor preservation of accounting documents;

(f)lack of orientation of new staff and councillors; and

(g)lack of succession planning. 

Mr Speaker, as highlighted in the report of your Committee, the Government has embarked on various measures to address this trend. A comprehensive data base has been established on the existing number of vacancies in councils and has been forwarded to the Local Government Service Commission.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on my right, you are making noise while the hon. Minister is talking. He cannot be heard. Please, consult quietly.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Local Government Commission has started the process of recruiting to fill the vacancies as can be seen at Luanshya Municipal Council that has advertised for positions to employ people to run the council. I think the closing date is tomorrow 

Sir, they cannot give advice to run councils when they failed even to employ simple clerks in the councils.

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Sir, a baseline survey has been conducted on the human-resource capacity in councils so as to enable the Government address various human-resource deficiencies. All principal officers and chief officers in councils have been written to so that they address the various gaps.

Mr Speaker, the ministry will now conduct a nationwide Council Officer Orientation Workshop so as to enhance the capacity of policy making …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on my left, please, listen.

Mr Kambwili: … in the local government.

Sir, the ministry has also embarked on a programme to strengthen the local government financial system through the introduction of the Integrated Financial Management System (IFMS). This will address the bulk of the financial management problems in councils, as the system will ensure transparency and accountability.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has since developed a Constituency Development Fund Bill as a way of tightening and strengthening the administration of the CDF. 

Sir, the ministry is in the process of developing a comprehensive Inter-governmental Fiscal Transfer System in order to address vertical and horizontal imbalances between rural and urban councils. In addition, the ministry is also developing strategies in respect of financial mechanisms through the strengthening of revenue and autonomy in councils.

Mr Speaker, I do not agree that we should not create new districts in councils where there are no economic activities. Are you saying that where there are no economic activities, then the people in those areas do not want development? We need to take development to all parts of the country. It is incumbent upon the Government to create economic activities in those areas.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Only the hon. Minister should be speaking.

Mr Kambwili: Sir, the previous speaker stated that there are very few councils that are able to raise finances. Does it mean that all the councils in the country that do not raise finances should be closed? That is not reasonable thinking.

Mr Speaker, we will take into account all what your Committee has recommended and we are going to implement it. We thank your Committee and its Chairperson for the very elaborate report. As a Government, the PF accepts positive criticism.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, may I just take this opportunity to thank the hon. Members who have debated this report. I thank the hon. Members for Lupososhi, Lubansenshi and Liuwa and, indeed, the Government for making the report richer.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

BILL

REPORT STAGE

The Civil Aviation Authority Bill, 2012.

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Thursday,19th July,2012.

________________

MOTION 

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

The House adjourned at 1910 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 19th July, 2012.